Senate
30 June 1938

15^th Parliament · 1^st Session

PAPERS
QUESTION
- NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE
NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONSINSURANCE BILL1938
SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1938-39
- Second Reading
GLIDERS FOR AUSTRALIA
- Mr. White’s Advocacy
- Australian Associated Press
- London, June 14
- Department of Health
- Postmaster-General’s Department
NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE BILL 1938
NEW GUINEA LOAN GUARANTEE BILL 1938
NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE (EMPLOYEES’ CONTRIBUTIONS) BILL 1938
NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE (EMPLOYERS’ CONTRIBUTIONS) BILL 1938
CENSUS AND STATISTICS BILL 1938
- Second Reading
EMPIRE AIR SERVICE (ENGLAND TO AUSTRALIA) BILL 1938
- Second Reading
ASSENT TO BILLS
PASSPORTS BILL 1938
DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938
- Second Reading
MEAT EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938
- Second Reading
CANNED FRUITS EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938
- Second Reading,
CANNED FRUITS EXPORT CHARGES BILL 1938
- Second Reading
DRIED FRUITS EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938
- Second Reading
CITRUS FRUITS BOUNTY BILL 1938
- Second Reading
INCOME TAX COLLECTION BILL 1938
EXCISE TARIFF 1938
- Second Reading
HOUR OF MEETING
NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE BILLS
ADJOURNMENT
- Senators - Valedictory - Public Works Committee : Resignation of Member

TheDeputyPresident (Senator Sampson) tookthechair at 10 a.m., and read prayers.

page 2901

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Customs Act - Regulations amended - Statu- toryRules1938, No.65.

Nauru - Ordinance No.2 of 1938 - Provident Fund.

Arbitration (PublicService) Act-Deter- mination by the Arbitrator, &c. - No.17 of1938 - Commonwealth Public Service Clerical Association.

Defiance Act -Royal Military CollegeReportfor1937.

Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act- Ordinances of1938- .

No. 8-Roads.

No.9 - Mining.

Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act - OrdinanceNo. 23 of 1938 - Education.

page 2901

QUESTION

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE

Senator ASHLEY:
NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Leader of the Government inthe Senate, upon notice -

Will the Government, when arranging the personnel of theroyalcommission to inquire into the conditions that govern the medical profession under the national health and pensions insurance scheme, give consideration to the appointment of a medical practitioner on that Commission who is conversant with the metropolitan and country conditions of the profession?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– This matter has been brought under the notice of my colleague, the Treasurer, who will give it consideration.

page 2901

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONSINSURANCE BILL1938

Bill returned from the House of Representatives with a message intimating that it had made the amendments requested by the Senate in thisbill.

Motion (by Senator A. J. McLachlan) proposed -

That the bill be now read a third time.

Senator COLLINGS:
QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1937

. -The Opposition in this chamber has been entirely consistent in its attitude to this bill. We said atthe outset that the scheme contained in it was neither national nor life insurance, and as the discussion proceeded we became more firmly convinced than over that our contention was right. We do not assert that the bill does not contain some good points ; but we say that it has been ill-conceived and badly drafted. It makes no provision for unemployment, and also introduces an exceedingly vicious principle in respect of invalid and old-age pensions which it makes contributory instead of being non-contributory, as hitherto. In other respects the scheme is entirely unsatisfactory to the Opposition. Inthe committee stage we did our best -to improve the measure, but without success, because in this chamber the Government has its brutal majority with which it can do anything it pleases. That is all that I have to say. The operation of the scheme is the Government’s job, and I anticipate that it will have some difficulty in fulfilling its contract.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a third time.

page 2902

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1938-39

Bill received fromthe House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. -I move -

Thatthe bill be now read a second time.

The bill makes provision for an amount of £8,824,700 for ordinary services for the first three months of the financial year1938-39. This amount is made up as follows: -

The amount provided for is that which is estimated to be sufficient for carrying on essential services on the basis of the appropriations passed by the Parliament for the current year. The items making up this total represent approximately onefourth of those appropriations, except in a few instances, in respect of which expenditure is heavy in the early months of the financial year.

This measure differs from Supply bills introduced at a similar time of the year in the past only in respect of the amount of the Treasurer’s Advance. It has been the practice, at this period, to seek Supply for three months, and to provide an advance to the Treasurer of £1,500,000. During the current financial year and in the preceding year, this sum proved to bo inadequate, and some embarrassment occurred towards the end of the first quarter when Supply ended, owing to the insufficiency of the Advance. That is the reason why, on this occasion, the sum of £2,000,000 is sought,

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– Once more I have to register on behalf of the small party in opposition, which it is my privilege to lead in this chamber, our disapproval of the way in which government business is managed. By this I do not mean the manner in which the work is done when legislation is placed on the notice-paper, because we are indebted to the Leader of the Senate (Senator A. J. McLachlan) for unfailing courtesy in the arrangement of the business. What I mean is that it is not creditable to our system of representative government, which at this tune more than any other in our history we should jealously safeguard, to keep Parliament in recess for months, and then expect members to pass in three months legislation which should occupy them for at least six months, if it is to get that consideration which its importance demands. I may be told that this protest is a hardy annual. Perhaps it is; but I remind theSenate that after midnight we on this side shall be in a better position to register ova disapproval of the Government’s shortcomings. I do not mean; this asa threat. It is merely a suggestion that the substantial increase of the number in opposition in the Senate will induce the Government to pay a little more attention to our protests.

On the 25 th June, Senator Guthrie asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior the following question : -

In view of the outstanding successes in regard to weather forecasting by Mr. Inigo Jones and the public confidence in that gentleman and his work, will the Government take steps to strengthen the Commonwealth Meteorological Department by enlisting the services of Mr. Inigo Jones?

The reply given by the Assistant Minister (Senator Allan’ MacDonald) was: -

Numerous requests by and on behalf of Mr. Inigo Jones for assistance from the Commonwealth for his weather forecasting activities at Crohamhurst, Queensland, have been received over a long period of years. His claims have been fully investigated by technical officers ofthe Commonwealth Weather Bureau, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and other scientific bodies, all of whom have been of the opinion that the work Mr. Jones is doing is not of such a nature as to justify support from the Commonwealth Government. In the circumstances, his requests for assistance have been refused, and it is not proposed that his services be enlisted by the Commonwealth.

– Such matters are not covered by this item, which refers to matters under ‘ the control of the Department of the Interior. The point raised by the honorable senator could more appropriately be dealt with in committee, when the Defence Department expenditure, is before us.

Senator BROWN:

– The numerous accidents which have occurred to Air Force machines suggest that insufficient attention is given to them. Unless greater caro is taken to keep the machines in good order, I nm afraid that more lives will be lost. Some months ago the son of a dear friend of mine was killed in an Air Force accident near Cootamundra. The wave of horror which passed over Australia at the time has not been diminished by the other accidents which have since occurred. The Worker of the 21st December, 1937, contains a report of an interview which a representative of Smith’s Weekly had with Mr. Fallon, the father of the airman who was killed. Mr. Fallon said that a number of Air Force machines left Laverton on the 29th November on a cruise to the north of

Queensland. Near Bourke the engine of one machine became overheated and the pilot had to land. The machine lay in a saltpan about 50 miles out of Bourke for several weeks. Young Fallon, realizing that something was wrong after the squadron left Brisbane, endeavoured to signal to his squadron leader, but the officer thought that he- was merely pointing to the clouds ahead. There was no method of communicating’ between the several machines. Later, young Fallon brought his machine down near Cootamundra because of engine failure, and one of the tyres burst, with the result that the machine crashed, the petrol became ignited, and Fallon was incinerated whilst strapped in the cockpit. His father stated that the deceased airman was a healthy specimen of young Australian manhood. That he brought the machine down to earth is evidence that the fault was not his ; his death was due to the bursting of a tyre. If more money were allocated to the repair and maintenance of Air Force machines, if is possible that such accidents would be fewer.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Item 69 makes provision for £100,000 for the purpose mentioned.

Senator BROWN:

– I wish to quote further from the interview.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator will be in order if the quotation relates to conditions in the Air Force.

Senator BROWN:

– In his interview, Mr. Fallon said -

I have made inquiries. On December 5 the squadron left Sydney and readied Cootamundra for lunch. Jack was still flying the same engine. The planes took ofl* from Cootamundra just after three in tlie afternoon, and ten minutes afterwards my son’s engine failed. According to an eye-witness who watched the planes flying overhead, my boy’s machine left the formation and the engine stuttered and cut out. Left in mid-air with a dead engine, he circled round for a landing place. He brought the machine down safely, and in all probability would not have been injured if the equipment provided by the Royal Australian Air Force in the shape of tyres oh the machine had been capable of withstanding the strain of landing. A tyre burst and overturned the machine, the petrol ignited, and my son, strapped in tlie cockpit, was incinerated. The fact of landing the plane indicates that he had the skill required to do the job. He could have left the plane by parachute while it was circling. There was no failure as far as the human element was concerned. I say again that the failure that caused the disaster was in the equipment provided by the Royal Australian Air Force.

Had proper tyres been fitted to the machine, the accident might not have occurred, and this fine young Australian would not have lost his life. I am aware that there was an inquiry into the accident, but it was conducted by Defence Department officers behind closed doors. There should be a public inquiry into every accident so that the people may know the real cause. I urge the provision of sufficient funds to enable Air Force machines to be kept in perfect order. If open inquiries were held the public mind would be set at rest. What has the Government to fear from telling the people the truth about these matters? In view of current wars and threats of wars, we must realize that international relations generally are somewhat precarious. Despite this fact, however, we are content to use in our Air Force machines with faulty engines and equipment. If, in peace time, these machines are a menace to the lives of the pilots, we can only imagine what will happen in time of war. Certain authorities have stated that some of these machines are not suitable for flying in northern climates, because of the contraction and expansion due to the heat in those latitudes, and judging by the experience on this flight from Laverton to Queensland, that contention appears to be well-founded. Many of our Air Force machines are not up to date and would not last five minutes in combat. Despite these facts inquiries into tragic accidents are held behind closed doors, and the Government does not seem to care that the public fears that all is not well with our Air Force. Apparently, money is being wasted on machines of certain types, instead of being used to safeguard the lives of young pilots to the greatest possible extent. In respect of the engines installed in our Air Force planes, Mr. Fallon said -

Speaking of commercial aeroplanes reminds me that, whereas the Hawker Demons are water-cooled, commercial aeroplanes are aircooled. Commercial aeroplanes are also required to run to schedule. The recent Hawker Demon squadron was not required to run to schedule. It was a leisurely flight. But, in the last twelve months, commercial aeroplanes have flown a total of 5,500,000 miles, and have carried 43,000 passengers, with a total of only eight fatalities. . . . Another thing, water f’or the Hawker Demon is required to be distilled for the cooling system. In other places, a liquid chemical cooling mixture is used. Royal Australian Air Force organization was such that it failed to provide liquid-cooling mixture and, in my son’s case, did not even provide distilled water. When Jack came back to Archerfield, hia engine was red hot, but the engine water system was filled with the first water available. Well, if the Minister and some of his brass hats are satisfied with the position where the flower of a nation’s manhood is being sent up in machines aptly culled “ flying coffins “, I am not. I suggest that they re-name these machines “ crematoriums “. It would be a better title for these alleged fighting machines.

Senator BRAND:
Victoria

.- I take this opportunity to refer to the recent criticism of the Auditor-General concerning war pensions. All honorable senators, I believe are glad to have the assurance of the Minister for Repatriation (Senator Foll) that the Government docs not propose to make any alteration of the present method of assessing and granting war pensions. Nevertheless, it is desirable that the taxpayers should be given some facts which have not been brought out in the Auditor-General’s report, otherwise a false impression might bc left in the minds of many persons. The absence of medical reports during a soldier’s active service does not warrant the assumption that he was al ways fit. Hundreds of men in the Australian Imperial Forces who suffered from’ shattered nerves remained on duty, steeling themselves against the necessity to have to report as sick. Nerves are intangible, and there waa a diffidence in reporting a nervy condition. To be nervy was to be “ jumpy,” and every soldier had a dislike to making such an admission. There was a mistaken impression during the war that nerves and cowardice are synonymous. The fact that a soldier did not consult a doctor after returning to Australia is not proof that he was not suffering. Unless a. returned soldier is in a lodge, there is marked reluctance to consult a doctor. Usually a man is unable to afford the half -guinea required for the. first examination, and the larger amount needed for further treatment. Only men in lucrative positions can afford to attend doctors whenever they feel the need. In one of the cases commented upon by the Auditor-General, the soldiers’ disability was neurasthenia. Sufferers from that complaint, are not normal reasoning persons. They do not always behave according to the ordinary rules of conduct. Some have an aversion to doctors, some cling to patent medicines and try every new concoction advertised in an effort to get relief. Tlie fact that a man did not report to a doctor is not evidence of his fitness. Had medical service and treatment been free to all. ex-service men there might bc something to be said in favour of the report. But even then men cannot afford to be absent from work for long periods, particularly when they have reached middle ago and ha vo to compete with younger competitors who are physically fit. The suggestion that the tribunal has been too credulous in accepting the testimony of laymen friends is hardly a tribute* to the ability of the members of the tribunal. The chairman of each of the two tribunals is a barrister of high standing, and accustomed to sifting evidence and judging its worth.

.- It is not my intention to usurp the position of the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLaclan) and reply to the remarks of Senator Herbert Hays with reference to country post offices and telephones, but, as I was for some years the ministerial head of that department, and as I have always been interested in the development of these services, I believe that a few words on this subject would not be out of place.

I think that I can claim credit for the introduction of the system of rural automatic telephones in Australia, and it is gratifying to me to know that where they have been established, they are rendering very useful service to the people.

The general public will be indebted to the Treasurer, Mr. Casey, for the production of a booklet givingmuch-needed information about taxation matters. As a result of this innovation, a taxpayer, for the first time in the history of the Common wealth, will know how much tax he has to pay. I congratulate Mr. Ewing, the Commissioner of Taxation, for the concise information contained in the booklet, which, I am sure, will be highly appreciated by taxpayers. People blame the Commonwealth Government for nearlythe whole of the taxes that are levied on them. This booklet will enable them to compare Commonwealth and State taxes and, to the great surprise of many taxpayers, it will be seen that State taxes are in. some instances more than double the federal taxes.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator is straying somewhat from the subject.

Senator GIBSON:

-I knew that I was on dangerous ground, but I could not miss the opportunity to congratulate Mr. Casey and Mr. Ewing on the publication of the booklet mentioned. The Treasurer would do well to issue it annually.

Senator SAMPSON:
Tasmania

– It was unfortunate that our friends in Opposition missed the opportunity, which the first reading of this bill furnished to all honorable senators, to talk at large upon almost any subject for an hour and a half and, if the Senate proved indulgent by granting an extension of time, for another half an hour. The bill, having been advanced to the second reading, the debate is more limited in scope. However, I am sure, although I shall not be here to participate in the proceedings, that members of the Opposition will not slip again.

I wish to say a few words on what is to me a pet subject, namely, defence, and I think that I shall be in order, because there is reference in the bill under the Department of Defence, to the permanent military forces, civilian permanent services, Royal Military College, citizen military forces and cadets, training, maintenance, repairs and general stores. I was interested in the efforts made by Senator Ashley to discuss the Newnes shale oil project under the heading -

Stores. I agree with, the President that, if that were permitted, it would be possible’ to have a very full discussion on almost any subject, because every department uses note-paper, ink and string, as well as red tape” and sealing-wax, among other things.

This will be, I suppose, my swan-song in the Senate, and I wish particularly to direct attention to the subject of military training, for which the provision made is £30,000. I have been hammering away at this subject since I was -elected to the Senate in 1925. During the years that have elapsed since then, the training of our military forces has not been anything like what it should have ‘been. British military history discloses that there has always been considerable slackness in the training of military forces, but, fortunately, the Empire has been able to get away with it up till now. Sir John Fortescue, who for many years was the official historian of the British Army, has published a number of fascinating and valuable works on this subject. From one of them I extract the following: -

British military history is one long story of unreadiness, and of makeshifts, the natural fruit of unreadiness. Makeshifts are never efficient, and always costly, which is perhaps the reason why we delight in them. For we are a purse-proud people, and when we are confronted with warnings from prudent and sensible men, men who have studied history and pondered over the lessons that it teaches, we delight to jingle money in our pockets, and say that a little expenditure will set everything right. But money will not purchase time or redeem lost opportunities.

That applies to us here in Australia. We have been told that it is time to get busy, and, indeed, we have voted about £43,000,000 for expenditure on defence, but although I approve of every penny of that proposed expenditure, I am concerned as to whether or not we shall get value for it. That brings me again to tho subject of training. On Empire Day I was an eye-witness of what was said to be the biggest muster of troops in Australia since the war years. I saw in Melbourne a march of troops consisting of some of the permanent personnel, and the militia forces. They made what the man in the street would probably describe as a brave show. The column took an hour and five minutes to pass the point at which I stood. The press was most enthusiastic about the march, but to me - a soldier for 40 years, part of the time as a citizen soldier, and later as a regular soldier in South Africa - ‘ the parade engendered mixed feelings. I viewed, with .a certain amount of pride, the young Australians whom I saw marching, but to me there was something, not exactly sad, but pathetic, about the whole thing. These young men had undergone voluntary training; they had resisted the other attractions of the holiday; from early morning until about 2 o’clock, they had been on duty; but I was struck with their comparatively poor physique. A big percentage of the men wore glasses, and generally, they were not up to the physical standard of the average Australian. There were plenty of bands, and they made a martial noise, but hone of the so-called battalions was more than about one-quarter of its proper numerical strength. Instead of containing four companies, each battalion was about the strength of one company. I counted some of the files, and I estimated the strength of the battalions at from 180 to about 330. When I saw the “ getup “ of some of the bands, I thought of the old Australian Imperial Force. To some people, men in brilliant uniforms may look like some of the regiments at Home, but to me they are suggestive of loy soldiers out of a box. In a “ scrap “ I would rather have ‘beside me some hefty chaps in their shirt sleeves than gentlemen wearing top hats and kid gloves. I return to the subject of training. Apparently, the Opposition in the Parliament of Great Britain is determined that the young men there, when they do have to face war - and war may come suddenly almost any day - they shall face it untrained and unprepared. The same thing applies here in Australia. The party opposite seems to be determined that the young men of Australia, when they have to face war, shall face it untrained and unprepared. Should war come to Australia, there will happen here what is happening to-day in Spain; on one side there will be trained soldiers - military craftsmen, who have becomes masters of their weapons - and, on the other side, hundreds of thousands of poor devils, enthusiastic and > brave, but almost entirely untrained, and consequently, like sheep awaiting slaughter.

In fact, ‘the braver they are, the more “ guts ‘.’ they have, the more hideous and terrible will be their losses. We should do the fair thing by our young men, and give to them a chance to become, masters of their weapons and machines. I assure honorable senators that, even in these days of the mechanization and motorization of armies, the man still counts. We are told that in future wars, horses and foot soldiers, will not be required, .and that our faith must be placed in light tanks- and swift-moving six-wheeled motor lorries. The reply to that contention is summed up in one word - “ petrol “. I ask honorable senators to reflect on what is happening to-day in China, and in Spain, and what happened on occasions in Abyssinia comparatively recently. The whole of the mechanized forces came to a stand-still, immobilized, ‘ through lack of petrol. The problem of the supply of fuel will be extremely difficult to surmount in the next large-scale war, principally because petrol dumps are exceedingly vulnerable from the air. A well-directed bomb may destroy a million gallons of precious -fuel. There is a tremendous lot of guessing in our talk about the future. It is utterly ridiculous to say that in a time of emergency tlie existing skeleton voluntary force can quickly be expanded into a big army. The time factor must be taken into consideration. The training of men requires patience and perseverance. Honorable senators should not think that the men of the Australian Imperial Force who landed at Gallipoli - and I was one of them - were trained men. They were not. It is t rue that they had undergone some training in Australia, on the transport vessels and in. the Egyptian desert. In 1918, when the Hun was on the run, the survivors of the Gallipoli campaign, looking back on those apparently far-off days of 1915, realized that those splendid specimens of manhood, whom they had regarded as trained soldiers, were only half-baked soldiers after all. In those days, that extraordinary war-craft and technique which made the men of the Australian Imperial Force towards the end of the Great War, world famous, had not been attained. If wc rely on a skeleton force, raised by a system of voluntary enlistment under which men are con stantly coming in and going out,, making proper training impossible, we shall get nowhere. There must be continuity of training. If we are to maintain our selfrespeot, we must get down, to fundamen-tal£ ; we must return to where we left off, and set in motion again the system of compulsory military training recom. mended by Lord Kitchener. We cannot afford, nor do we desire, a regular professional army. Perhaps, because of the fear that some day the regular, army may take charge of things, as, indeed, has happened frequently in the history of the world, .a professional army has always been repugnant to democratic peoples.. British peoples .do not like a regular professional army, but they do believe., in citizen soldiery. My reading of the. fighting in Spain is that a horde of men, inspired with an ideal, is opposed to trained mercenaries against whom they have no chance. Their losses have been enormous. When war comes, it is too late to set about the training of men. That brings me to my point, that peace-time training, to be of any value . at all, must be war training. What is an army for? Certainly it is not merely for parades and ceremonial show. Its purpose is to fight, otherwise it is a hollow sha.m: We must train men in peace to be such masters of their weapons and instruments that they shall have confidence in them: selves and in the implements which they will use. Only by training can an efficient force be obtained. If a brigade, or a couple of brigades, of - an enemy force, assisted by aircraft, were to make a raid on Australia, we should be in a hopeless mess - a worse mess than we were in when the Great War broke out in 1914. The present Minister’s predecessor made repeated pronouncements to the effect that the voluntary system was adequate, and numerous pamphlets were issued telling that story. The contention that we shall be able to expand our existing skeleton forces in a time of crisis is simply airy talk; that cannot be done. We have been granted time in which to look to our preparedness and, because it is going to be a long job, it is up to us to get down to tin tacks immediately and start improving the physique of our youngsters, and teaching them the rudiments of soldiering, in order to give them a chance to protect themselves should a conflict arise. I have talked at length on this subject on many occasions in this chamber. There are two paths to preparedness. One, that of militarism, is illustrated in the continental method of conscripting armies and putting the bulk of a country’s manhood into barracks for a period of two or three years, then transferring them to reserves, and later providing a refresher training course. But that method is repugnant to British people because it involves coercion and, consequently, tends to break down democracy. Under that system hundreds of thousands of productive units are taken from the sum total of the nation’s economic productivity. The second path to preparedness, and that which 1 desire Australia to take, is the way of education,, involving the training and proper development of our boys while they are at school, so that, when they reach maturity, no long period of military training will be required to make potential soldiers of them. That path can be trod by this nation without upsetting our democratic principles. Physical training of the boys in the public schools followed, at maturity, by a short period of universal training, has made the citizens of the Swiss Republic, which is surrounded by potential enemies, the best citizen soldiers, man for man, on earth. That system has not made the Swiss people any loss democratic, nor has it made them militaristic. On the contrary, it has made them truly democratic. T do not believe that a system of voluntary military training has ever sufficed for Australia’s needs. J. joined up under the volunteer system 40 years ago, and for some years commanded a unit which T again commanded under the universal training system, and also under the most unsatisfactory volunteer system, with which - and I say this without intending to give offence - we are simply playing at present. The voluntary system is but a sham and make-believe. Some talk glibly of our militia force of 35,000, and the average person assumes that all of these men are trained, but I venture to suggest that not one-third of them is even partially trained, as training was understood under the old universal system. The voluntary system might have sufficed years ago, but it is not practicable to-day, not only for the reason that a sufficient number will not volunteer, but also because of the utter impossibility of training hundreds of thousands of raw recruits when the enemy is almost at our gates. Those who will not volunteer to undergo national military training, i submit, must be compelled to do so. Although we cannot compel any one to vote, we do compel our citizens, at least, to go to the polling booth, and we impose a fine upon those who fail to do so. I can see no objection, therefore, to compelling people to undergo military training, and, I suggest,’ Australia must exercise its inherent right to take measures as it deems necessary for the protection of the life of this country. A system of universal military training, that is, a citizen soldiery, is the only safe and equitable basis of national defence, lt cannot be universal unless it is compulsory. The voluntary system is not only a failure, but invariably it is also a most dangerous expedient. On the subject of defence one could talk ad Hh about armchair critics, and the extraordinary spate of books which have been written during the last 15 or 20 years as to what the next war will be like and all that sort of thing. Such books also tell us how we should defend our country, one school relying entirely on the Navy, and the other entirely on the air arm, hut when one gets down to tin tacks, we find that, it is almost entirely on ‘its manhood that a country must rely. Machines will not fight of themselves, and guns will not be fired or planes lie flown of themselves : it is there that the man comes in - the mau of high morale, imbued with esprit du corps, and possessing the knowledge and skill required of a soldier. Only by patient, steady and assiduous training will he prove capable of using the weapons and machines of Avar. This process cannot be hurried when hostilities break out. Are we in Australia following this course to-day? To be frank, I must reply that we are doing so only partially, and in some respects not at all. Tt is high time indeed that we closed this chapter in our history. The war weariness which followed the Great “War operated against the provision of adequate defence, and since 1929 up to the present - although I admit that in the depression money was scarce - we have simply played with this problem. At long last, I think, we have realized the folly of placing our. faith in what was termed collective security. We were told that the League of Nations was our greatest bulwark, but time has shown litis to be an absolute fallacy. We are now beginning to realize that we must defend ourselves, that no one else will defend us. I suggest, therefore, that we should give our youth a chance. Do we want them to face the music like many poor devils in Spain, and elsewhere, who were brave enough but, untrained, and were led like sheep to slaughter? Because of lack of training and lack of skill in warcraft, in the use of weapons, the study of terrain, and the hundred and one things which a soldier is required to master; these brave men were absolutely butchered. Do we want to send young Australians to a similar fate? Our youngmenhave got “guts” enough ; no braver man lives than the young Australian man, and this is as it should be considering the stock from which he has sprung. But, for Heaven’s sake, let us give him a fighting chance.

I cannot do better than quote Sir John Fortescue, the historian of the British army, who, in a book which he wrote just after the war, said this with regard to the voluntary system in Great Britain -

It is time that this chapterwasclosed fur ever. It has never been denied that it is the duty of every able-bodied citizen to defend his country when it is in danger, and if it is his duty to defend it - it is his duty to learn how to defend it. And the performance of this duty must notbe left to our consciences, which are singularly insensitive in such matters; it must bo enforced, for if there be one lesson to be gleaned from British military history, it is the hopeless and irremediable inefficiency of the voluntary system.

Those observations apply equally to the voluntary system in Australia.

As honorable senators are aware, I have constantly preached on this subject, although my voice was like a voice crying in the wilderness, and I have probably proved wearisome and tedious in this respect; but it, pleased me very much indeed when I read last March that the conference of the Australian Labour party in Tasmania had passed a resolution sponsored by the Premier of that State, Mr. A. G. Ogilvie, in favour of compulsory physical training of boys in that State. For doing so, I believe, members of that conference are now regarded as “ scabs “ by many of their political colleagues in Australia. When I read that report, I sent a telegram to Mr. Ogilvie, whom I regard as a friend, although we are utterly opposed in politics, stating how much it pleased me, after having hammered away for so long on this subject, that he and his people in Tasmania had seen the light. In reply to that message, I received the following telegram, which honorable senators no doubt will note is characteristic of that gentleman : -

Thanks for your telegram. I express the hope that your party will at no distant date see the light also.

I reiterate that hope.

Senator DEIN:
New South Wales

. -I was particularly interested in the references made to allowance post offices. I recall that when Senator Herbert Hays brought up this matter previously he mentioned that those in charge of allowance post offices were scarcely receiving the remuneration to which they were entitled, and, in reply to the honorable senator, the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan) stated that the rate of remuneration payable to these officials was partly based on the basic wage as varied from time to time. The honorable senator is anxious to know whether these officials have received increases corresponding to the considerable advances which have been made in the basic wage during the last few months. Senator Gibson remarked that in some instances the allowance received actually exceeds the revenue collected by the office; but even if that be so, it should not preclude us from suggesting that the allowance should be sufficient to compensate the officials for the duties they perform. They are at the service of residents for practically sixteen hours a day for seven days a week, and 365 days in a year, and the only time an allowance postmaster feels that he is free is when he has left the office. Moreover, the allowance scarcely compensates these officials for the accommodation which they have to provide. These conditions apply, not only in the more remote areas of New South Wales, but also in other States, where allowance post offices are the medium for the distribution of messages received by telephone for school children and others. Generally, the school is not far distant from the local post office, and if parents wish to communicate with their children messages sent through the post office are delivered promptly. When requests are being made for increased allowances, it is hardly fair to study too closely the revenue received by the office. Postal officials, in whatever capacity they may be employed, perform a duty to the public, and when we recall that during the last two years the postal department has made a profit of approximately £3,000,000, it is reasonable to give these underpaid people some consideration. It is the practice of postal inspectors to ring up these offices from a distance in order ‘to ascertain whether the official is or is not on duty, and if the telephone is not answered, an explanation has to be made. I was interested in the remark of Senator Gibson concerning automatic post offices. It is the first I have heard of such offices, but if that branch of the service be extended, I hope it will not be at the expense of those in control of allowance offices. Is the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan) able to give the findings of the investigation committee which he promised to appoint some time ago to inquire into the conditions under which allowance post offices are conducted? If the Postmaster-General believes that there are officials whose remuneration is insufficient to compensate them for the work they do, he should, with his strong sense of justice, compensate them for the valuable service they render, more particularly in remote parts of Australia.

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

– It is now twenty years since the termination of the Great War, yet throughout the Commonwealth there are thousands of persons still in receipt of war pensions for injuries received on active service. I should like to know why, after such a long period has elapsed, those in receipt of pensions should still be examined. This practice has been continued for over twenty years, and the system of re-examination is so harsh that many pensioners are almost exhausted when it has been completed. One would imagine that the Pensions Department believes that many pensioners are malingerers, but as they have been in receipt of a pension for many years, surely the department does not expect to find such material improvement in their health that the pension can be discontinued. I trust that the Minister will look further into this matter to see if some relief cannot be given to those who are compelled to undergo this periodical torture.

The defence system of Australia has been established purely for defence purposes only, and not for purposes of aggression. Those who make complaints concerning the tardiness of some young men in offering themselves for service under the voluntary system should study the subject more fully. Senator Sampson, who said that he was astounded at the physique of the young men on parade last Empire Day, should remember that many of those young men are the products of the depression. During childhood they did not receive sufficient nourishing food to enable them to become physically fit, and even now many of them have never had permanent employment or the opportunity to become useful citizens. Many of themlook upon themselves as members of a lost legion, because they have never been afforded any opportunity to study or learn a trade or calling. Trainees in the police force, who in time will have the responsibility of enforcing law and order, are paid. When young men are asked to train for important work in the customs or other government departments, they are always paid during the training period. In these circumstances, it is only right that young men who are asked to accept responsibility under our voluntary system should also be paid. If the Government wishes to make voluntary military training attractive it must pay the trainees a reasonable remuneration, and unless that be done the present system will never be a success.

I join with those honorable senators who have expressed regret concerning the possible restriction of the activities of rifle clubs. During the Great War the members of such clubs proved themselves highly efficient soldiers, and they’ should receive better treatment than is being meted out to them. Under our voluntary system men are being trained in the use of machines of Avar, and, as rifles are used extensively in modern warfare, it is reasonable to suggest that instead of restricting membership and reducing the supply of ammunition to rifle clubs, greater consideration should be given to those who are sufficiently patriotic to join them.

We have been informed that a good deal of developmental work has been carried out in the last few years in the Northern Territory. A large sum of money has been expended on a geophysical and aerial survey of the northern portions of Australia, but it seems to me that, side by side with scientific research, prospecting should be carried out for the purpose of discovering fresh sources of mineral, wealth. We are led to believe that the saturation point has been reached in regard to agricultural settlement in Australia, and this emphasizes the necessity, in conjunction with research work, for practical prospecting for gold, silver and base metals. The small sums which have been supplied by governments in the past for the encouragement of prospecting have proved quite inadequate. If sufficient assistance were given to a large number of prospectors, the possibility of further valuable mineral discoveries in the Northern Territory and other parts of North Australia could be explored; but I do not consider that practical results will be obtained merely .by photographing the surface of the earth from the air. The history of ‘mining development throughout the Commonwealth shows that the rich finds which have led to the success of the mining industry have resulted from the work of prospectors. By a geophysical survey alone it is impossible to determine whether an area known to carry minerals can be developed on a commercial basis. Certain parts of the Northern Territory were quite inaccessible to prospectors a few years ago, but since the advent of the motor lorry long distances can be traversed in a short time, and exploratory work can be done comparatively cheaply.

If saturation point has been reached in regard to land settlement, how is employment to be found for those whom the Minister for Commerce, Sir Earle Page, is anxious to induce to migrate to Australia from European countries? Is some of the money to be voted by this bill to be used in settling migrants in the Northern Territory? There should be no difficulty in absorbing those capable of undertaking prospecting for minerals. In Western Australia, practically every mineral known ‘ to science has been discovered, and I understand that considerable areas in the Northern Territory also are metalliferous. As mining work attracts the hardy pioneer, the Government would be well advised to provide the funds required for the development of the regions under Com:monwealth control. The northern portion of Australia has long. been described as a white elephant, and it is high time to take vigorous action to develop the country with a view to absorbing large numbers of the unemployed in the southern parts of ‘this continent. The late Mr. Munsey, who was Minister for Mines in Western Australia some years ago, evolved a scheme to encourage prospectors for gold. Each prospector was allowed 15s. a week, but such a grant would be too small to meet the requirements of a prospector in northern -Australia.

Senator Allan MACDONALD:

– Prospectors were assisted under a State government scheme in Western Australia long before Mr. Munsey became Minister for Mines.

Senator CUNNINGHAM:

– Yes ; help of this kind was given in 1905 by the first Labour government in Western Australia, which was led by Mr. Daglish, and whose Chief Secretary was the late Mr. George Taylor. Under the plan introduced by the late Mr. Munsey, over 2,000 men were assisted to do prospecting work in the western State, and over £150,000 worth of gold was won. Mr. Munsey’s scheme was responsible for the new find at Yellowdine, and the prospector through whose efforts Palmer’s Find achieved prominence was given assistance under the scheme inaugurated in Western Australia by theLabour government. A substantial sum should be made available for developmental work in the northern parts of Australia in order to attract settlers to those areas.

In the vote for the Northern Territory under the heading “General Services”, under the control of the Department of the Interior, appears the amount of £35,000 for “Other Services”. It has been suggested that portion of this money is to be used for experiments in the production of wheat, not only for export, but also for fodder for hog-raising. If money is to be expended for this purpose, would it not be desirable to advise those who may be interested not to look forward to exporting wheat to Eastern countries, thereby entering into competition with the farmers in other parts of Australia, many of whom are suffering hardship on account of unfavorable seasons and depressed prices ? The wheat industry throughout Australia is now in a most precarious position.

Sitting suspended from 12.45 to 2.15 p.m.

Senator GRANT:
Tasmania

.- I was interested in, and I entirely agree with, the remarks made by Senator Sampson on the subject of compulsory military training of the youths of Australia. Without this preparation for defence, it would be a disaster of the first magnitude to place untrained Australian soldiers in the field to fight for their country. It is essential that these men should have efficient training in all arms of the service.’ In this connexion, I bring to the notice of the Senate a complaint which I have mentioned on other occasions relating to the licences for A class pilots. A large number of young men in the various States have, at their own expense, qualified as A class pilots, but a departmental regulation requires them to have twelve hours flying in each year in order to retain their certificates. It has been represented to the Minister for Defence (Mr. Thorby) that the Government might see its way clear to pay the small sum necessary to enable these young men to have their twelve hours flying each year, but, for some unexplained reason, this request has been refused. The cost to the department would not be very much, apart from the charge for the petrol which the Air Force machines would use. These young men are enthusiastic airmen and they desire to retain their efficiency so that, in the event of war, they would be able to render valuable service to this country. I hope that the Minister will be able to comply with their request. If necessary, some financial asistance could be given to the various aero clubs of which these young men are members.

Senator Foll:

– The Government already subsidizes aero clubs.

Senator GRANT:

– Then I suggest that the aero clubs should make machines available in order to allow qualified pilots sufficient time in the air to retain their ceritficates. The cost to each young man will be about £21 a year ; not all of them are in a position to find that amount. The Government should encourage these young men to retain their efficiency. Its attitude to the rifle club movement should also be reviewed. Some time ago, I submitted applications for the formation of two or three rifle clubs in Tasmania, and was informed that financial provision had been made for the maintenance of a certain number of riflemen, and the quota could not be exceeded. Therefore, the Government could not permit the formation of more rifle clubs throughout the Commonwealth. This is a mistake, because a good rifle shot is an asset to any country in time of war. I should also like to know what the Government intends to do about the rifle range at Sandy Bay. This matter has been the subject of discussion for the last fourteen years. Since my election to the Senate, I have asked a number of questions relating to it,” but I have never been furnished with a satisfactory reason for the delay in transferring the range to a more suitable site. The Randy Bay range does hot conform even to the Defence Department’s regulation, because it is in a thickly populated area and is a. menace to people who live in that neighbourhood. I hope that the Minister will be able to do something in the matter. Even if the delay is due to a dispute between the Government and the City Council of Hobart as to the acquisition of land, the disagreement should have been settled in less than fourteen years. If necessary, the Government should compulsorily acquire the land for the new site and have the range transferred without further delay.

The contract for the England-Australia air-mail service, which is about to be inaugurated, contains terms which I consider undesirable. One objection is the term of fifteen years. The companies concerned have no doubt done a great deal to develop aviation in Australia, but that Iia rd lv justifies terms that are more favorable to thom than to the Commonwealth. For instance, it provides that at the inauguration of the service mails shall be carried between England and Australia in nine and a half days, and at some future date in seven and a half days. This is not a good arrangement, because the Dutch air service to Australia which is about to be inaugurated undertakes to deliver in .1.94.1, mails from Holland to Sydney within three or four day3. In view of the rapid development of air services in all countries, it is most undesirable that the Government should bind itself for a term of fifteen years, in respect of a contract which, at its best, will deliver mails between England and Australia in seven and a half days. We have had much the same experience in connexion wilh ship-mail contracts. The speed of present day mail steamers between Australia and Great Britain is not greater than, it was 40 years ago. As a matter of fact many cargo vessels with limited passenger accommodation, travelling via tlie Cape of Good Hope carry passengers and mails in less time than is occupied by subsidized passenger and mail steamers over the Suez route. It is unthinkable that the people of Australia will, be content with an air-mail service of so voir and a half days between thi? country and England when it may be possible to have mails delivered in onehalf that time by a foreign, unsubsidised company. Business people who appreciate speed in communication’s will probably adopt the expedient of having letters sent by air from England to Holland and brought to Australia by the Dutch air line, thus saving several days in transit. It is also desirable that all the charges mentioned in the contract should be expressed in Australian currency instead of sterling, because we shall have to pay in Australian currency which is 25 per cent, below sterling. I am in complete agreement with the proposal to bring our air-mail services right up to date, but I am afraid that as regards speed and the length of the contract, we are not getting a favorable agreement. Many people believe that in some respects British aeroplanes are not the equal of continental aircraft. The majority of the mails leaving Croydon for the continent are carried by foreign machines which arc said to be faster than British aircraft-, and just as reliable. Indeed, in some respects they are superior. A3 honorable senators know, Imperial Airways is experiencing a difficult time. I should have liked other companies to have an opportunity to tender for the air-mail service; from the point of view of the successful tenderers the contract just made should be most profitable. In my opinion, the Government ‘ is proposing to tie the Commonwealth for a long period to -an unfavorable agreement.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- I was glad to hear Senator Cunningham refer to the payment of recruits. I shall not now deal with tlie merits or demerits of compulsory military training, but I submit that if the Government has decided to adhere to the voluntary system, it should ensure that the recruits are adequately paid. When I spoke on this subject 011 an earlier occasion, the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) accused me of desiring to introduce industrial conscription, but Senator Cunningham realizes that young men who voluntarily undergo military training are entitled to adequate compensation. The suggestion which I- made on a previous occasion, was that young men who qualiBed in some branch of the militia forces should have an amount added to their wages each week while of military age, such amounts to vary according to standard of efficiency attained during their period of training. That would be a. proper arrangement to couple with the voluntary” system. Trained’ men are of more value to the community than are untrained men. and they should be rewarded accordingly.

During the last two or three years, the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan) has lost a great opportunity to achieve fame. I do not say that he has lost his political astuteness - far from it - but, although his department has shown big surpluses for several years, he has not seized the opportunity to give back to the people a proportion of those surpluses, thereby carving his name on the scroll of fame. The heavy claims of the Commonwealth’s defence policy will swallow most of the accumulated surplus of the Postal Department, and, therefore, I can offer my condolences to the Minister on not being able to satisfy the desire of the public for a return of some of the amounts that they have paid to the department. It may be that the Minister expects to make some refund in the future, but I remind him . that the people are looking for relief now, rather than in the future.

I am inclined to think that the post office is the greatest example of stationary progress in the world. I am not particular whether the word is spelt with an “ e “ or an “ a “. Some of the stationery used by the department - its rather gaudy envelopes and telegraph forms - are said to indicate progress, whilst a good case could be made out for the claim that the administration of the department is of the “ stand-pat “ or stationary variety. I know that it will be claimed that the post office is rendering great service to the people, but when that service and the price charged for it are compared with the examples afforded by other countries, the claim does not appear to be so well founded. Border rates for telegrams still exist, although I should have thought that their inequity would have been so apparent to the Postmaster-General as to have caused him ere this to abolish them.

I am astounded that the new air-mail service is not to be under the control of the Postmaster-General, but will be under . the Defence Department. Surely, the name “ air mail “ - and, for the most part, the service will be connected with the carrying of mail - should be under the Minister who controls other mail services. Is it because the burden is too great for one Minister that it has been decided that two Ministers shall share it ?

There is considerable dissatisfaction throughout the Commonwealth regarding tlie niggardly treatment of the people by the Postal Department. There is a general belief that, too much is paid for tlie service rendered. They see no reason why they should pay for those services rates so high as to result in huge surpluses to the department. I trust that the Government will provide better and cheaper facilities for telephones and letters.

Senator COURTICE:
Queensland

. - Senator Leckie has criticized the Postal Department for not returning some of its big surpluses to the people. My criticism, is that those surpluses should be utilized to provide greater facilities in country districts than now exist. The telephonic services in the country are capable of considerable improvement. One way to make country life more attractive is to provide better mail and telephonic services in country districts. A telephone is no longer a luxury; it is a necessity to many people. Very few of the residents in the district in which I live have telephones, although they are reasonably prosperous. The reason is that the cost of the service is too great. They would be glad to install telephones if they could afford them. I pay about £9 a year as rental for my telephone, whereas Senator Leckie probably pays about £3 a year. That is because I have to pay for the cost of the wire to connect my farm with the nearest exchange. That cost is far too heavy for most country people to pay. If the Government wishes to serve the people in the country, it could not do better than give to them improved mail and telephone services. The establishment of more automatic exchanges throughout the country would be of great value to country residents. I know of areas which might almost be described as outer-suburban districts, where there is a mail service only two or three times a week, whereas, in the cities, there are two or three deliveries a day. As the finances of the department are in such a healthy condition, I trust that the PostmasterGeneral will give serious consideration to the suggestions that have been made.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– Senator Brand referred to the report of the Auditor-General in regard to the administration of the Repatriation Department. Some time ago, I answered a series of questions relating to decisions of the Entitlements Appeal Tribunal which had been referred to by the AuditorGeneral in his last report. It is only fair to say that it is the duty of that officer to examine Commonwealth accounts and to make such reports on them as he thinks best in the public interest. Personally, I do not think that his conclusions in relation to the cases which he quoted were such as warranted elaboration in his last report. However, it is the Auditor-General’s duty to investigate thoroughly the way in which public accounts are kept, and I have no quarrel with him on that score. What other method could be adopted for the investigation of public accounts? In respect of the matter raised by Senator Brand, I called for reports from the appeal tribunals and from the commission itself, whilst I caused to be thoroughly investigated every case which could be traced. Following this action, the Government decided that it was not necessary to alter the present method of granting and assessing war pensions. I resent the suggestion made by the honorable senator that the commission is tending to becoming “ departmentalized “, and is, therefore, losing that sympathy which should be extended to returned soldiers and their dependants who apply for pensions. My own experience is that the reverse is the case. The chairman of the commission is Mr. Norman Mighell, who, since his return from the war, has practically devoted his life to the interests of returned soldiers. That gentleman is one of the most capable officers to be found in any Commonwealth activity.

Senator BRAND:

– I was referring to the Auditor-General’s Department.

Senator FOLL:

– The honorable sena* tor used the term “ departmentalized “ in respect of the commission. During the seven months I have been ministerial head of this department, I have found no evidence of such a change in the outlook of the commission. The .two other members are Mr. F. H. Rowe, a man of great experience, particularly on the pension and medical side of the department’s activities, and Mr. John Webster, a limbless returned soldier, who is the direct representative on the commission of the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial

League of Australia. Mr. Webster is one of the most capable officers with whom I have come in contact. These men endeavour to administer the ^benefits under the act as sympathetically as possible. Only a few months ago it was my pleasure to be present at a dinner which was tendered to the chairman of the commission in Brisbane by the Queensland branch of the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League of Australia. The Queensland president, Mr. Huish, presided at that function, and the various speakers, who are members of tlie State Council of the league, paid a tribute to the efficient manner in which the commission was doing its work. I recall that several, of them declared that the Australian Soldiers’ Repatriation Act gave greater benefits to returned soldiers and their dependants than similar legislation in any other country, whilst one speaker considered our legislation was the most up to date in existence. It is quite impossible, as you yourself, Mr. Deputy President, will know from your great experience in matters affecting returned soldiers, for every application to be granted. Furthermore, it is difficult for any unsuccessful applicant to view his application from other than his own stand-point, or to appreciate the point of view of the department. I again deny that the commission has adopted a purely official view as suggested by Senator Brand; on the contrary, it has given ample evidence of its sympathetic outlook. Practically every member of the department’s staff is a returned soldier, or the son, or daughter, of a returned soldier.

Senator Cunningham criticized thepractice of making periodical reviews of soldiers’ pensions. I agree with him that such reviews which have been conducted under this legislation since its inception have caused a good deal of annoyance to pensioners, and, in some cases, loss of time and considerable inconvenience, not only to soldiers themselves, but also to their employers. I am pleased to be able to inform the honorable senator that these periodical reviews will shortly be practically a thing of the past. One of my first actions on taking over control of this department was to co-operate with the commission with the object of abolishing these reviews. In cases in which no alteration of the rate of pension or the rate of disability, either in an upward or downward direction, has occurred during the last ten or fifteen years to an extent greater than 10 per cent. of the the amount of pension, these reviews have been wiped out altogether, with the result that 90 per cent. of the pensions now paid to returned soldiers under repatriation legislation will not again come up for review unless a review is expressly asked for by the pensioners themselves. Scores of lettershave been received from returned soldiers expressing their appreciation of the stabilization of their pensions. The remaining 10 per cent. consists of pensions in respect of which the disability varies, as in cases of tuberculosis and other diseases, in which it is necessary for the sufferer to enter departmental institutions for treatment from time to time. It will be of great advantage to 90 per cent. of the pensioners to know that their pension will be stabilized at existing rates. However, no pensioner will be denied the right of a review should he think that his disability is becoming worse; in such cases he will be entitled to ask for a review at any time.

Senator Collings:

– Is that new regulation abolishing the annual inquisition opera ting al ready ?

SenatorFOLL. - I do not think it is fair to describe these reviews as inquisitions. However, the new arrangement is now being implemented, and practically to every man who will be affected has been forwarded a circular from the chairman of the commission, notifying him that his pension will not in future be subject to review.

Senator Brown referred to the unfortunate accidents which have recently occurred in the Royal Australian Air Force, particularly that in which a young Queenslander, whom honorable senators from that State knew personally, the late Mr. Jack Fallon, of Brisbane, was killed. The honorable senator was not quite fair in inferring from the extract which he read from an article written by the father of the deceased, that pilots in the Royal Australian Air Force were being sent into the air, first, in “flying coffins “ and, secondly, in machines which were old and faulty. The Minister for Defence (Mr. Thorby) has repeatedly given the assurance that every possible form of inspection is made by mechanics of the Royal Australian Air Force, and also by the pilots themselves, before any machine is allowed to go into the air. The accidents which have befallen the Royal Australian Air Force in recent years have been most unfortunate. However, the blame for such accidents is not a matter of politics; they would have occurred irrespective of what government had been in office. Will any honorable senator suggest that any government, Minister or permanent head of the Air Force would, knowingly, do anything which would be likely to render the machines less safe, or endanger the lives of pilots? I submit, therefore, that much of the criticism levelled against the administration of the Royal Australian Air Force in debates in the House of Representatives in connexion with these accidents is most unfair. Sir Edward Ellington, Marshal of the Royal Air Force, who is now visiting Australia, and who is recognized as a world authority on military flying, bad this to say regarding machines of the typesused in the Royal Australian Air Force -

Avro Anson andHawkerDemonmachines were not now classedas modern aircraft, but were stillregarded by the Air Ministryas being efficient and reliable, and Avro Ansons were stillbeing put into service inEngland forreconnaisance purposes.

So far as the Royal Australian Air Force is concerned, Commonwealth governments have, invariably, taken the first opportunity to purchase planes of the latest military types for use in the defence of this country. We know, however, that aircraft development has proceeded so rapidly during recent years, that it is almost impossible for us to continue to have the machines of the very latest type on our doorstep, as it were, immediately they are invented. When the Avro Anson Bomber succeeded the Hawker Demon, this Government took the first opportunity to secure delivery of such bombers in order to replace, largely, planes of an older type in use in the Royal Australian Air Force. When more modern machines are produced they will be used in Australia. As honorable senators are aware, the “Commonwealth aircraft factory at Fisherman’s Bend, in Melbourne, is now under construction, and the necessary plant will soon be placed in position. When that establishment is completed, the latest plans that can bc obtained in Great Britain, and in other parts of the world, will be made available in order that production on the latest type of aircraft may commence. Other countries are in a similar position to Australia in this respect, and it is exceedingly difficult for Australia to possess only machines of the latest type.

Senator Brown, I know, realizes that I sympathize, as he does, with Mr. Fallon in the loss of his brilliant son, but there is no justification whatever for the suggestion that Fallon was flying in a plane that was not airworthy. Even had Mr. Fallon been present at the time of the accident he would not have been able to explain the reason for the crash. The honorable senator also said that the plane was fitted with old tyres.

Senator BROWN:

– Mr. Fallon said that the tyres were old.

Senator FOLL:

– Does the honorable senator suggest that the pilot and mechanic would not inspect the plane and its equipment before leaving on their flight? Moreover, the ground staff and those who had control of the machine prior to its departure would see that the tyres were in good order. The honorable senator also said that Fallon was piloting what he termed a “flying coffin”. Honorable senators will recall that some time ago a new De Haviland 86, which arrived in Australia to take up The running of the inland service between Brisbane and Longreach, was smashed to atoms and the pilot and observer killed. Surely no one will suggest that that unfortunate accident was due to a faulty machine. Not long ago a Douglas plane, one of the most, modern passengercarrying planes, had a mishap on landing owing to a tyre bursting. In all Royal Australian Air Force cases an investigation was conducted by the Air Accidents Investigation’ Committee, which comprises men capable of determining so far as is possible the cause of the accident. The Government deplores- these unfortunate accidents, and every effort is being made to ascertain and remove the cause. The accident mentioned by Senator Brown was inquired into by a coroner, who had authority to call whatever witnesses he considered necessary, and the Air Accidents Investigation Committee also made a full investigation into the cause of the accident. The honorable senator also referred to the over-heating of the engine, but 1 am informed that the engines on these machines are watercooled, and that .even if steam should issue from the engine, that does not suggest that it is over-heated. Sir Edward Ellington, when dealing with the cause of aircraft accidents in the Royal Air Force, also said -

The increase in tlie number of accidents in the air force during; the past few years, li nil been attributed by experts to the rate at which new men were being trained. In most cases it was not the officers in their first year of training who were involved in accidents, because they were conscious of their limited knowledge and therefore were extremely careful.

The experts had found that the increase had occurred as the new men in the service got beyond their initial stages of training, but had not gained the experience to justify the degree of confidence attained, it was significant that the years 1934 and 1035, which preceded the training peak, were the air force’s best years so far as accidents were concerned.

On behalf of the Minister for Defence, 1. can assure the Senate that every possible precaution is taken before planes are used, to protect the lives of the men using them, and also the planes and theirequipment.

I shall bring under the notice of the Minister for Defence the proposal by Senator Grant that the Government should bear the cost of additional training of aero club pilots to enable them to retain their certificates. Personally, I cannot see any objection to the proposal, but I may mention that the territorial air force in Australia is developing, and many of these young men may have an opportunity to join that force. Speaking on my own behalf, I think that it would be desirable for the Government to bear the cost of the extra training rather than allow pilots who are not enlisted in either service to use service planes. Any other remarks made in connexion with the Defence Department will “ be brought under tho notice of the Minister for Defence, who always welcomes constructive criticism, because it may be of value in the administration of his department.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– in reply - I understand that the Loader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) proposes to re-open the subject of the meteorological expert in Queensland, and I shall content myself by saying that “ There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy “. Should Mr. Inigo Jones possess the meteorological ability which the honorable senator suggests, he should be of service to Australia. The late Mr. Clement Wragge, of South Australia, was designated “ Inclement Wragge “, but he possessed remarkable ability in forecasting meteorological conditions.

Senator Ashley raised certain points regarding the development of the” Newnes oil shale, and as you, Mr. President, allowed him to proceed, I shall make a few observations which may satisfy the honorable senator. The first is in connexion with the oil pipe line proposed to be built from Newnes to Sydney. I thought at first that that line was to terminate at Parramatta, but I now understand that it will be carried nearer to Sydney. There is a junction in the pipe line at Newnes from which the petrol will be tapped. It has been found more economic to convey it in that way because, I understand, there is a gravity flow practically from the top of the hill to the valley at which it is to be delivered. It may also satisfy the honorable senator to know that operations are to commence almost immediately, and that a Dubbs cracking plant is to be installed. The reconditioning of the precipitous and dangerous road leading from Lithgow to Newnes will be undertaken. I know from personal experience that the road is exceedingly dangerous. Mr. Dalziel, the under-manager of the State coal mine at Lithgow, has been appointed manager,’ and a staff appointed. Final tests are now being made in Esthonia, with a view to the preparation of drawings and specifications for two retorts, each with a capacity of 300 tons a day.

The old retorts at Newnes had a through put of only 5 tons a day. Mr. Davis expects that these plans and specifications will shortly be available and he hopes that it may be possible for Cockatoo Dockyard to undertake the constructional work. I understand that a pipe line 120 miles in length will be constructed from the junction already mentioned. The operations are going to be more extensive in the Capertee Valley than in the Newnes Valley, and the honorable senator may be pleased to know that Mr. Davis, the managing-director, still regards a unit producing 10,000,000 gallons as a pilot plant, and contemplates eventually increasing the production to 30,000,000 gallons a year. I trust that he is right because if his estimate be realized, it will confirm the confidence which I have always had in the production of shale oil from Newnes Valley.

I shall bring the matter of mineral research, mentioned by Senator Cunningham, under the notice of the Treasurer, Mr. Casey. I understand he referred to the continuation of the geophysical survey which has been proceeding for some time, and which was to be abandoned at. the end of. thi3 year. The ‘Government regards the geophysical survey of the country as of great importance, and will be pleased if the two State governments will co-operate with the enthusiasm which has characterized past efforts; but whether money will be available for the purpose is a matter for the Treasurer to decide.

A note of approval was sounded by Senator Gibson with regard to the compilation by the Taxation Department of a booklet which, he said, informs him regarding the amount of income tax he will have to pay. I congratulate the department upon what it has done in this direction, although it seems to me that one needs to study the publication closely to understand one’s position, despite the explanations.

Reference has been made to the necessity for providing more houses for the residents of Canberra. The Treasurer, Mr. Casey, whose name has been mentioned, will be required to make, in respect of the house which is being built in Canberra for him, payments to the Government similar to those made by other residents occupying government houses. The Government is fully aware of the necessity for an extensive housing programme, and the necessary financial provision for it will subsequently be made.

The subject of allowance post offices has been raised by Senator Herbert Hays and Senator Dein. This matter has caused me considerable thought at different times, and my predecessors in office have met a barrage of criticism in regard to it. At the instance of the Prime Minister, Mr. Lyons, nine months or more ago, and under pressure from several honorable senators, including those who mentioned the matter to-day, and from members of the House .of Representatives, a complete examination of the position in respect of these offices has been made. There are about 8,000 allowance postmasters, some of whom receive a substantial remuneration. Honorable senators will, I think, agree that the basis on which the allowance has been determined is just. Yet there is one factor which, in my opinion, has not been taken into calculation. In the first place, we start with a sum. above the basic wage, so that whatever that wage is from time to time, the allowance postmaster receives remuneration on a scale based on a larger sum. Then a calculation is made year by year with regard to the turnover of each of these post offices, and the number of duties which the officials are called upon to perform. The department knows exactly what time should be occupied, even by an amateur, in doing this work; allowance is made for that, and a little extra is added. Some of these post offices -are very small places in country towns, and they serve outlying districts. If every position of allowance postmaster in the Commonwealth were declared vacant to-morrow, the department would be overwhelmed by the number of applicants who would be anxious to take over the work at’ the rates now paid. The small storekeeper, agent or other individual who conducts one of these offices enjoys undoubted advantages, because he knows that the great majority of the people of his neighbourhood will visit the local post office. It seems to me to be slightly unjust, however, that, although this officer may have little official work to do at times, something is not allowed him because of the- availability of his services. This point has been examined, and I have noted the result. I have observed the principles on which the calculation was based, and have brought independent thought to bear upon the matter. The Director-General of Postal Services, Sir Harry Brown, has submitted a report to me, I have placed certain proposals before the Cabinet, and these have been referred to a subcommittee of the Cabinet. I cannot, at this stage, carry the matter further than that, but honorable senators may rest assured that whatever measure of justice is needed to put these officials in a failposition will be given.

In regard to holidays and superannuation, honorable senators should remember that the Public Service Board has no voice in regard to the relations between the allowance postmasters and the department. These officials take over these duties for good or ill, knowing that they cannot enjoy the conditions prevailing in the Public Service. It would be extremely unwise, in the interests of the people generally, if too many regulations were passed with regard to allowance post offices. I realize” that in country centres the officers in charge of them do small favours for the residents of the area, and receive a quid pro quo in another way. The Prime Minister indicated to me that, whatever the result of the Cabinet decision might be, effect would be given to it from the 1st July. Some criticism of a more or less cordial character, I think, emanated from Senator Gibson, who occupied the position of Postmaster-General longer than anybody else in Australia. I am the twenty-first Postmaster-General in the Commonwealth, and I have held the portfolio for only a few years.

The subject of automatic telephone exchanges was mentioned by Senator Gibson and also by Senator Herbert Hays. The department has gone ahead steadily with the provision of these exchanges throughout the country. Under the advice of the officers who are in charge of the telephone service, and with the guidance of the Director-General, the department has embarked on a plan for installing automatic exchanges throughout Australia, particularly in tlie country districts, and this plan is being accelerated. The exchanges now in operation number 4S, and the installation work is being proceeded with in 46 additional oases, making a total of 94. Equipment has been ordered for a further 74 exchanges, and various installations will bc proceeded with during the coming financial year. That is a reasonably rood record.

Honorable senators seem to think that the whole of the branches of the Postal Department are conducted at a profit. Let me put the matter to Senator Gibson, who did much for country districts when lie was Postmaster-General. He had the facilities afforded by a trust account, but I. have not had such an account on which to operate. Honorable senators are aware that, under the Constitution, every penny of revenue .collected by the Postal Department has to be paid into the Treasury and re-voted at the good will of the Parliament. Practically all the surplus revenue of the department is revoted for departmental purposes. .During [he three years ended the 30th. June, 1937, the department lost £1,000,000 on [lie telephonic services provided in country districts.

Senator Gibson:

– That takes into account only one-way traffic.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The honorable senator may regard the matter from that point of view, but there is only one just basis on which the position can bo calculated. “When it is said that the Post Office is out to grab every penny it can get and hold fast to it, the fact should lie recognized that this is done to enable developmental work to be carried on by the department, and to enable the provision of services which we are most anxious to give to outlying districts.

Senator Courtice:

– Should not the people in the cities help the few in 4he country ?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– They are doing a great deal in that direction now. Our revenue is coming from the cities,- and we are losing in the country districts. Although Senator Leckie was able to make certain sallies at my expense because of the accumulated surpluses of the department, I point out that in addition to the necessity for large financial provisions for scientific research, regard must be had to the possibilities of wireless communication. Unless provision be made to safeguard the finances of the department in the future, I fear that the same financial fate which has overtaken the railway departments of Australia will one day overtake the Postal Department. In the scientific world the most extraordinary discoveries are being made. We thought it was wonderful when it was found that messages could bc transmitted by wireless telegraphy. To-day we think it is remarkable to be able to send messages over the air which, at great cost, can be kept secret, but I predict that before long secret messages will be transmitted at ordinary charges without, the assistance of posts and wires. What will be the plight of this department then, having regard to its huge capital outlay on posts and wires? As long as I am PostmasterGeneral I shall do all that I can to square the ledger, but I want the department to be able to give to the people a service which is better than they are receiving to-day. I venture to think that the telephone, service given in Australia to-day is better than that provided in any other part of the world. It is not by any means a dear service.

Senator E B Johnston:

– But the department is making huge profits.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– That is due to good management. The cry is often raised that the postage rates on letters should be reduced, but what has been the experience in other countries where this course has been followed? The Postal Department of the United States of America reduced the postage rate on first-class mail matter from 3 cents to 2 cents, and suffered a deficit in the following year. The paY.ment of the extra cent did not impose a serious hardship on the people individually, but the total loss to the department when the charge was reduced was so great that the Government had to revert to the 3 cents rate. I could give one illustration after another to show, that the experience of the United States of America has been repeated in other countries. We should be satisfied with the present rate in Australia, having regard to’ the fact that most of the surplus revenue of the department is voted hack to it, and is used for developmental purposes. The General Post Office in Sydney, for instance, is fairly bulging with employees. So also is the General Post Office in Brisbane. If money were available the provision of a new building could be expedited, but, it will take about three years to carry out this work while maintaining the services at the present high level of efficiency. A large amount of money will have to be expended to improve the service between Newcastle and Sydney. The posts carrying telephone wires arc very much overladen, and they are expensive to replace . Because of the interference from high tension wires between Sydney and Hornsby the department will have to incur heavy expenditure in the construction of a tunnel underthe river. The increase of the traffic between Melbourne and Geelong is also imposing a strain on the department, and further provision will have to be made before long. Having regard to the facts of the situation, and because we do not know what future developments will be, all I can say to honorable senators is “give the post office administration a chance to proceed on sound lines.”

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee :

Clauses 1 to 5 agreed to.

Schedule.

Proposed votes - The Parliament, £49,150; Prime Minister’s Department, £131,980; Department of External Affairs, £3,690 ; Department of the Treasury, £206,880; Attorney-General’s Department, £50,990; Department of the Interior, £124,890 - agreed to.

DepartmentofDefence.

Proposed vote, £1,689,300.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

– Under the heading, “Munitions Establishments and Factories, general expenses, £117,000,” I wish to discuss briefly the proposal of the Government to manufacture the Bren machine gun at the Small Arms Factory at Lithgow.I invite the attention of honorable senators to the following report which appeared in the News of the World, a London newspaper, on the 27th March last: -

In a speech described by the War Minister us resembling “the most exciting chapter of a spy novel “, Lieutenant-Commander Fletcher. Labour M.P. for Nuneaton, dropped a bombshell in the House of Commons during the debate on the Army Estimates.

After referring to “ grave doubts “ about the efficiency of the Bren machine gun, as used bythe Army,he gave a sensational account of alleged tampering with a British machine gun before its official tests, resulting in its rejection by the War office.

I am not very much concerned about the tests which resulted in the rejection by. the War Office of another type of machine gun ; I am concerned about the comments on the Bren gun which is to be manufactured at the Small Arms Factory at Lithgow for use by Australian soldiers. The report goes on tostate-

In his reply, Mr. Hore-Belisha accused Lieutenant-Commander Fletcher of trying to give them “ the creeps ‘’.

He defended the Bren machine gun, and undertook to consider, “ with alacrity and very great earnestness.” any facts which Lieutenant-Commander Fletcher might send him which would suggest that gun tests were not carried out with complete impartiality.

Lieutenant-Commander Fletcher had begun by pointing out that the great lesson of the war was the value of the machine gun. “ To decide on equipping- the Army witha new machine gun.”he added. “ in a most seriousand anxious matter.

Apart from thequestion’ of expense, the decision’ is one whichmay turn the -scales of victory.

Is the Bren gun really the best machine gun for the job?”

The Bren. originally produced in Czechoslovakia, was adopted by Britain in 1935.]

Lieutenant-Commander Fletcher went on to ask whether the Bren gun was offered to others, including the German Army, and refused.

Is it not very remarkable,” he asked, “that no Britishgun-maker has been able to evolve a suitable machine gun for the British Army? Has any . British firm an interest in the production or manufacture of the Bren gun?

I do not know whether the Bren gun now in process of issue is similar to that which was shown in competition with the Lewisgun at Bisley in 1936. but is it the-case that while the Army Council have adopted the Bren gun the Indian Army and the Royal Air Force have rejected it ? “ Is it the case that the Army Council have not tried out any machine gun against the Bren except the Berthier, which was accepted by the Indian Army in preference to the Bren?”

The British gun trade was believed to be the most skilled in the world, but the trade experts condemned the Bren.

He made full allowance for their business interests, but they said that no British gun ever put up to the War Office has ever given such a lamentable performance as did the Bren at the Aldershot Rifle Meeting at Bisley. “ I have seen this gun described as a gangster’s gun “, he remarked, “ having asawedoff barrel, the range of a Mauser, the magazine capacity of a rifle, the accuracy of a blunderbuss and a weight of 21 lb. It is, therefore, lacking in the only commendable qualities of a gangster’s gun, lightness and handiness.”

At Bisley, in 1936, the Bren was out-classed every time by the Lewis for accuracy and reliability.

It was too heavy for the ordinary man to lire from the shoulder, so inaccurate that it was of little use as a substitute for a rifle, and difficulties were experienced because of the premature extraction.

He understood that the Bren required two men to serve it, and that therefore the probable casualties would he double those of a one-man gun.

The Bren was to have been issued last year, but he was told that difficulties had been experienced at Enfield with the manufacture. What was the state of delivery? If the deliveries were backward what was the reason, and with what machine gun was the Army at present supplied?

The Bren was to replace the Lewis, which was condemned during the war, but it had not been replaced yet. If we were involved in hostilities during the next few months, with what light machine gun would our Army be. equipped? If the Bren was not available, should we have to rely on the Lewis?

We had apparently been trying tomake the Bren ever since 1934. Issue was promised two years ago, and, in any case, not later than November, 1937. He had inquired, but he could not get particulars of any competition which was open to all British produced and designed guns.

This is a matter of very great importance, because I understand that it is proposed to expend £166,000 on the erection of buildings at Lithgow for the installation of machinery with which to manufacture the Bren gun. The most searching investigation should be made into the truth of the statement, otherwise we may be committed to the manufacture of a machine gun which competent authorities will regard as obsolete. I listened with much interest to the remarks of Senator Sampson this morning, and agree with him that Australian soldiers should be equipped with the most efficient weapons that this country can afford. It would be a tragedy to expend hundreds of thousands of pounds on a machine gun which might prove to be out of date. I urge the Leader of the Senate to have a thorough investigation made as to the advisability or otherwise of manufacturing the Bren machine gun for the use by Australian soldiers.

SenatorFOLL (Queensland - Minister for Repatriation) [3.45]. - I can assure the honorable senator that his remarks will be brought under the notice of the Minister for Defence, with a view to an investigation being made.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP

– I support the representations that have already been made in favour of rifle clubs. Recently, I asked a question on the subject, and the Minister representing the Minister for Defence admitted that for the present financial year the number of members of rifle clubs in Western Australia had been reduced substantially. Due, largely, to the statements of Ministers as to the necessity for providing for the defence of Australia, there have been large numbers of applications to join existing rifle clubs, and also to form new clubs. If the Government does not intend to re-introduce compulsory military training, it should at least encourage men to join rifle clubs in order to gain experience in the use of the rifle. In correspondence that I have sent to the Minister, I have urged that an increased vote be allocated to rifle clubs in the budget for the forthcoming financial year, and I am glad to say that the replies that I have received have been sympathetic. I should like the Minister to make as frank a statement on this subject as is possible.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

. - I shallbring the representations of the honorable senator under the notice of the Minister for Defence. I assure him that the Government recognizes the value of rifle clubs, and it is for that reason that various forms of assistance have been rendered to them for many years. The limitation of membership was probably due to reasons of economy, but that subject, as well as the treatment of rifle clubs generally, will be considered when the Estimates for the next year are in course of preparation. I assure the honorable senator that the representations made by himself and others on behalf of the rifle clubs, whose excellent work the Government values, will receive full consideration.

Senator BROWN:
Queensland

– It does not appear that the Government recognizes the value of gliding clubs. I have brought this matter forward on several occasions, but there seems to be a tendency to disparage these clubs. I, therefore, bring under the notice of the Senate the following paragraph which appeared in the press on the 15th June : -

page 2931

GLIDERS FOR AUSTRALIA

Mr. White’s Advocacy

Australian Associated Press

London, June 14

The Australian Minister for Customs (Mr. White), accompanied by the champion glider, Mr. Philip Wills (who set an altitude record of 10,000 feet on June6), visited the Slingsby Glider Works, in Yorkshire, where the latest sailplanes are being manufactured.

This is Mr. White’s second investigation into gliding, which he considers will be a most useful adjunct to aviation, and he intends to advocate its expansion in Australia.

Ho points out that great progress has been made in Europe, especially in Germany, where all air force pilots are glider-trained. Gliding is part of the flying curriculum in Poland.

I hope that as a result of Mr. White’s experience, greater assistance will be given to these clubs.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed vote, Department of Trade and Customs - £164,160 - agreed to.

Department of Health

Proposed vote- £31,910.

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

– A health laboratory was established at Kalgoorlie about ten years ago in order to make preliminary investigation of the prevalence of silicosis and other pulmonary complaints among miners. I should like the Minister to state the number of men who were tested during the last three years. If that information is not available, I should be glad to know where I can obtain it.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. When I visited Kalgoorlie some time ago I saw something of the operations of the laboratory to which the honorable senator has referred. I cannot give him offhand the information which he seeks, but

I shall approach the Minister for Health in the matter. He will, I think, be able to supply it.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed votes - Department of Commerce, £113,040; Miscellaneous Services, £114,580; War Services, £292,720; Commonwealth Railways, £133,180 - agreed to.

Postmaster-General’s Department

Proposed vote- £3,048,160.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– I was interested in the debate on postal and telephone services which took place on the second reading, particularly the remarks of Senator Gibson, who did much as PostmasterGeneral to assist people living in the country. In Western Australia, a country of big distances, there are many telephone exchanges which have only a few subscribers. At first, automatic exchanges were established in two of the rural townships, Dowerin and Broomehill, but subsequently the number was increased. To-day there are numerous exchanges throughout the sparsely-settled areas of that State, somewith only three or four subscribers and others whose subscribers are less than twenty. Most of the smaller exchanges are open for business for only a few hours each day. In these places, the installation of automatic equipment would be of great value, because it would provide a continuous service, instead of the present limited service. I should like to see the system of automatic exchanges extended.’ When such work is being undertaken, I suggest that those exchanges which are open to subscribers for only short periods daily, and those whose revenue is nearly sufficient for them to qualify for an all-night service, should be dealt with first. When I brought this matter before the DeputyDirector of Posts and Telegraphs in Western Australia, Colonel Roberts told me that it would be necessary for a trained mechanic to visit such exchanges from time to time. As in some districts there are several exchanges within a comparatively limited area, I imagine that the services of a travelling mechanic would be sufficient to give to them the attention they would require.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– There are engineering and scientific difficulties associated with the installation of automatic exchanges. In certain localities in South Australia, several automatic exchanges are connected to one power circuit.I imagine that such installations depend on the power available.

Senatorgibson. - That is so.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Where possible, one central office serves a number of exchanges. I shall look into the matter raised by the honorable senator.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed votes - Northern Territory, £76,580; Federal Capital Territory, £81,460; Papua, £11,030; Norfolk Island, £1,000; Refunds of Revenue, £500,000; Advance to the Treasurer, £2,000,000- agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reportedwithout requests; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2932

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE BILL 1938

Message received from the House of Representatives, intimating that it had agreed to the amendments made by the Senate in this bill which was previously amended by the House of Representatives at the request of the Senate.

page 2932

NEW GUINEA LOAN GUARANTEE BILL 1938

Bill received from House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) reada first time. second Reading.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. - Imove -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to provide a guarantee by the Commonwealth in respect ofa loan to be raised by the

Administrator of the Territory of New Guinea to meet the cost of the construction of a road between Salamaua and Wau. The Government has decided to transfer the capital of New Guinea from Rabaul to Salamaua . The proposed road will link up the mining district of Wau with the proposed new capital. It is not necessary for me to stress the need for road access to the valuable gold-fields around Wau. Up to the present, the only connexion between Wau and the. coast has been by aeroplane, and the rich nature of the fields has enabled aeroplane transport to operate successfully. To develop and maintain the mineral and other resources of the Wau area and the hinterlands of New Guinea, a more economical means of transport is necessary and this can be provided only by road.

An accurate estimate of the cost of the road is not at present available, as the surveys have not yet been completed, but, it is roughly estimated that it will be possible to construct a road at a cost of approximately £150,000. It will not be practicable for the New Guinea Administration to finance this amount out of its ordinary revenue, having regard to the normal recurring expenditure of the territory. In order to finance the cost of the work, it will, therefore, be necessary for the Administration to have recourse to loan moneys”. Under the powers conferred upon the Administration by the New Guinea Act, it is able to exercise borrowing powers, but, up to the present, these powers have only been used for the purpose of borrowing from the Commonwealth Government. The Administration would probably find it difficult to borrow on its own credit from outside sources on reasonable terms and conditions. It is, therefore, provided that the loan to be raised for this purpose shall bo covered by a Commonwealthguarantee. It is proposed that a toll be charged to users of the road, and interest on the loan and provision for redemption are to be a first charge on the revenue obtained from the toll. Maintenance of the road is to be a matter for the New Guinea Administration as an ordinary administrative function. It is provided in the bill that the loan shall be subject to such terms and conditions as are approved by the Commonwealth Treasurer. The bill also provides for an appropriation of Commonwealth revenue to the extent necessary to meet any liability arising from this guarantee. It is not anticipated that it will be necessary for the Commonwealth to meet any such liability. I commend the bill to the favorable consideration of the Senate.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

. - I am particularly pleased to be able to say that the Opposition supports this bill, because the branch of the Australian Labour party which functions in the district to be served by the proposed road has asked that the measure be passed and implemented as quickly as possible. I hope that it will not be opposed by any honorable senator.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– I also support this measure, because the necessity for connecting the port of Salamaua with the gold-fields in the Wau district was brought forcefully before me when I visited New Guinea some time ago. The development which has taken place in that territory in the absence of road transport is amazing. Transport has been principally carried on by powerful aeroplanes, which have conveyed machinery, motor cars, livestock, and heavy goods of every description from Salamaua to Wau. Much correspondence has appeared recently in the press to the effect that a direct road from Salamaua to Wau might not necessarily be the cheapest, or the most valuable for the development of this part of New Guinea. All honorable senators have, I believe, received a circular relating to this measure, and attached to it is a map suggesting that a better route would be from Salamaua to Lae and thence along a river and through good agricultural country to Wau. It might be possible to construct a road along that route more cheaply than along the route proposed in this measure, and it is suggested that the road via Lae would have the additional advantage of opening up extensive agricultural country. I have no direct knowledge in that respect. However, I feel sure that the Government is desirous of following the best route possible, and I suggest that it should consult with the Administrator of the territory on this point before coming to a final decision. Its main object should be to get the greatest possible value for the money to be expended, taking into account the best means of developing the economic resources of New Guinea generally.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- I presume that once this bill is passed it will become certain that the new capital of New Guinea will be established at Salamaua, for the reason that the Government would not decide to incur theexpenditure to be authorized by this bill unless it had finally chosen Salamaua as the seat of government.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– That is so.

Senator LECKIE:

– I have never visited New Guinea, and, therefore, do not know much about that country. But from a study of maps it would appear that Salamaua is situated in a low-lying, swampy and mosquito-infested area. My information is that the Government is making a grave mistake in its choice of Salamaua as the new capital. I am also informed on very reliable authority that the Government will be making a further mistake if it decides to construct this road direct from Salamaua to Wau. As the route will be over mountainous country, the project will be expensive, and the cost of maintenance will be high. Furthermore, we must remember that the Wau gold-field is a wasting asset ; according to estimates, its resources will be exhausted within ten or twelve years. The land about Wau is so poor that no other industry will be possible there once the mines are worked out. In that event, the expenditure of £150,000 on the construction of this proposed road, and the cost of the upkeep of the road will be wasted, because no one will want to go to Wau after the gold has been exhausted. It is pointed out that a better proposition would be to build a road along the Markham River valley, thus opening up the magnificent river lands and the hinterland in the Ramu basin. The route would certainly be longer, but the grades would be easier. The rivers in this part of the country are navigable to a great distance, and such a road would open up practically the whole of the available good land in New Guinea to transport, travel, and agriculture. I am not satisfied about the proposal contained in this measure. I feel that we should have more particulars placed before us, not only with regard to the establishment of the new capital at Salamaua, but also in respect of the particular road proposed in the bill. All the information I have received on these points so far influences me to support the construction of a road along the river valley, as I have already indicated. I have had no information to the contrary from the Minister. Thus I believe that a great mistake will be made if this sum of £150,000 be expended on the route proposed. Wau is inaccessible, and its development, in spite of transport difficulties, has been wonderful. Consequently, I am not prepared to vote on this measure until I have received more convincing details from the Minister along the lines I have indicated. I have received my information from people who have lived in New Guinea for many years, and I urge the Government to hesitate before committing the Commonwealth to the expenditure of so large a sum as £150,000 on this particular project, when it seems possible that greater benefits would be derived if the route which I have described were adopted.

Senator GRANT:
Tasmania

.- I agree with Senator Leckie that the Government should not attempt to pass this important measure with undue haste, because, according to the opinions I have received from persons living in the locality, the £160,000 proposed to be expended will be inadequate to construct a road from Wau to Salamaua. Those who know the district say that it is more likely to cost £250,000 than the £160,000 provided in the bill. The Minister should also give the Senate some information concerning the terms on which this loan, which is to be guaranteed by the Commonwealth, is to be raised. Clause 2 provides that “ the loan is raised at such time and in accordance with such terms and conditions as are approved by the Treasurer “. We are giving the Government authority to guarantee a loan on which an excessive amount of interest may be paid. Unless I can obtain addi tional information on the subject, I intend to oppose the second reading of the bill.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. - in reply - I am not familiar with the portion of the territory in which the proposed road is to be constructed, and I realize that varying interests in the locality hold different views. Representations have been made to me by a circular letter in which sound reasons seem to be given against the selection of Salamaua as a site for the new capital. Honorable senators will probably recall that owing to severe volcanic disturbances in the vicinity of Rabaul, the Government decided that in the interests of the people and of the capital itself, the seat of administration should be removed to a more suitable site. The Government obtained advice from experts as to the seismographic conditions in the Rabaul area, and subsequently a special committee, which was appointed to investigate alternative sites for the new capital, submitted, in a report dated the 27th April, 1938, the following proposals: -

Lae (on the coast in the Morobe district of the mainland of New Guinea) to be the site of the administrative head-quarters.
Salamaua (also on the coast, about twenty miles from Lae) to be the port for the administrative head-quarters and to be developed as the chief port of the Territory.

Those who are obliged to live in this tropical region should have the benefit of living at a higher altitude, not only in their own interests, but also in the interests of their offspring. The matter was debated at length inCabinet, and finally the Government agreed that the Minister for External Affairs (Mr. Hughes) should investigate the matter on the spot, so that the Cabinet might have an independent opinion. The Minister visited the territory and recommended that, as a port would have to be maintained at Salamaua, the administrative head-quarters also should be established there. He stated that Wau, to which the proposed road leads, is more central for the development of an important part of the territory, but having regard to the possible decline of the gold-fields, recommended that Salamaua should be both port and capital, and that it be connected to Wau by road. It was also suggested that along-range policy should be formulated by which in time the road could be extended along the Markham Valley to theRamu tableland, and eventually further inland. That road would be the backbone of a system of communication for the hinterland of New Guinea, and could in time be linked with Madang, on the north coast. The object of the road, I understand, is ultimately to reach the source of the Sepik River.

In reply to the point raised by Senator Grant, I may state that a like provision in respect of loans, guaranteed by the Commonwealth, is inserted in similar measures, because such guarantees have to harmonize with the rate of interest fixed by the Loan Council. I can assure the honorable senator that there will be no extravagance in that regard.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Guarantee of loan raised by the Administrator of New Guinea).

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– I do not think that the Minister disclosed whether the Government intends to consider the alternative route from Salamaua to Lae, and thence to Wau along the Markham River, or whether it has decided to adopt the direct route. According to the representations which I have received from Mr. Robson, the editor of the Pacific News, it would appear that a good case has been made for the route via Lae. If a good road can be obtained at the cost of constructing a few additional miles, it would be advantageous to do so. I understand that the interest on the loan is to be secured to the administration of the Mandated Territory, and also to the Commonwealth as guarantors, by imposing a toll on those using the road; but there is nothing to that effect in the bill. If the Government is at all in doubt in the matter, the proposal should be referred to the Public Works Committee for investigation and report, because that committee can, when authorized by Parliament, inquire fully into such undertakings. If the Government has any doubt, which the Minister’s speech suggests, arid the route recommended by the Minister for External Affairs (Mr.Hughes) is different from that which the New Guinea committee recommended, the whole project should be inquired intoby the Public Works Committee.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The actual route has not yet been definitely determined. A survey , is now being made by experienced surveyors, who know the relative values of the respective routes. I shall, however, see that the honorable senator’s suggestion, which was made in a slightly different form in the House of Representatives, is brought under the notice of the Minister. As the work is urgent, it would be impracticable to submit the project to the Public Works Committee as suggested.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 3 agreedto.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2935

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE (EMPLOYEES’ CONTRIBUTIONS) BILL 1938

Bill read a third time. .

page 2935

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE (EMPLOYERS’ CONTRIBUTIONS) BILL 1938

Bill read a third time.

page 2935

CENSUS AND STATISTICS BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing andSessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The chief object of the measure is to enable the Commonwealth Statistician to collect statistics from “factories, mines and productive industries” on forms approved by the Treasurer and so to avoid the . unnecessary expense at present involved in prescribing the forms by regulation. The present act empowers the Statistician to collect such statistics, but, until recently, the collection was left largely to the State Statisticians. As a result of a conference of Commonwealth and State Statisticians held in March, 1937, it was decided that the time had come when the statistics should be collected on a uniform basis in all States. This decision was implemented by regulations made under the Census and Statistics Act 1905-1930, the forms prescribed thereby being used to collect the factory statistics for the year 1936-37.

In order to make the task of filling in the returns as easy as possible, a large number of forms has been drawn up to fit the circumstances of the very diverse classes of factories concerned in the collection. There are almost 40 of these forms, and it is found in practice that certain alterations have to be made every year in order to make them as convenient as possible to the persons filling them in, and to bring them into conformity with changing circumstances. Most of these changes are of a minor nature, but under the present law they involve the making of fresh regulations. This in turn involves the re-printing of the regulations in the’ Statutory Rules in a different size from the forms themselves. This procedure is very costly, and quite unnecessary in the interests of the public, as theStatistician sees that every person interested in the forms is given an opportunity to inspect them. Moreover, as the annual alterations have to be made in consultation with the State Statisticians, and in the short period between the completion of one year’s tabulation and the commencement of the next year’s collection, the officers of the Bureau of Statistics and the Government Printing Office find themselves hard pressed at a busy time of the year.

A further object of the bill is to empower the Statistician to collect statistics at more frequent intervals. By a strange oversight, section 16 empowers the Statistician only to collect statistics annually. Unless this amendment be made there might be difficulty in continu ing the collection of monthly and quarterly statistics of retail prices; these are examples of statistics which must obviously be collected more frequently than once a year. These are the only two matters dealt with in the bill, and I commend it to honorable senators.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2936

EMPIRE AIR SERVICE (ENGLAND TO AUSTRALIA) BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing andSessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

A few years ago a scheme was brought forward by the Government of the United Kingdom for an Imperial net-work of air services radiating from London to Africa, India and Australia. This scheme was carried into effect in part by an agreement entered into in 1937 between the Secretary of State for Air, the Postmaster-General in the United Kingdom, and a British company known as Imperial Airways Limited. The British Government desired, however, that the various dominions concerned should collaborate in the scheme, and invitations to that effect were issued.

Negotiations between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Commonwealth Government have been proceeding for some time, and an agreement has now been reached under which, subject to the approval of this Parliament, the Commonwealth Government will participate in what is known as the Empire Air-mail Scheme.

The terms of the agreement between the two governments are set out in a despatch sent to the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, by the High Commissioner of the Commonwealth in London, acting under instructions from the

Commonwealth Government, and the Prime Minister has received from the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs a cablegram in which he states that the Government of the United Kingdom accepts the terms of that despatch as recording the agreement between the two governments. This agreement, which 1 will refer to as the inter-governmental agreement, contemplates the establishment of an air service between London and Sydney, the Government of the United Kingdom controlling the section between London and Singapore, and the Commonwealth Government controlling the section between Singapore and Sydney.

The performance of the service on the section between London and Singapore is already provided for under the agreement between the Secretary of State for Air, and Imperial Airways Limited, and it is proposed that the Commonwealth shall enter into a similar agreement with an Australian company known as Qantas Empire Airways Limited, in order to provide for the service between Singapore and Sydney. This agreement has been drafted, and the bill, now submitted makes provision for the ratification of the agreement between the two governments and the authorization of the agreement between the Commonwealth and Qantas Empire Airways Limited. It is expressly provided in each agreement that it is not to come into force until approved by Parliament.

The scheme also contemplates a further agreement between Imperial Airways Limited and Qantas Empire Airways Limited, with a view to making arrangements for the aircraft of each company to fly over the whole route. The intergovernmental agreement sets out the conditions under which the Commonwealth Government will participate in the scheme. I shall endeavour to summarize these conditions.

– Yes, and its problems cannot be compared with those which have to be dealt with by the Commonwealth Postal Department.

The Commonwealth Government will pay a subsidy and certain postal contributions, to which I shall refer later, to Qantas Empire Airways Limited, and will exercise control over that company in respect of the time-table of the service, stopping places, and fares and freights on the Australian section. As, however, variations in stopping places may affect the finance of the whole scheme, such variations will only be made by agreement between the two governments.

The service is to be carried out by aircraft of the flying-boat type, but if, within two years of the commencement of the service, the Commonwealth Government considers that this type of aircraft is unsuitable, and a suitable adjustment of the scheme to the satisfaction of the Government is found impossible, the Com monwealth may determine its agreement with the Government of the United Kingdom.

Aircraft operating the scheme will not be charged housing or landing fees in Australian territory, and’ customs and other duties and taxes collected on fuel and oil, and on certain equipment imported into Australia for the purposes of the service, will be refunded by the Commonwealth to the company.

It is provided that the Commonwealth may arrange with the company to carry out in Australia major repair work to its aircraft, and for the construction of new aircraft in Australia, if such work is found to be within the capacity of the Australian aircraft industry; but if, as the result of such an arrangement, additional costs are incurred by the company, the Commonwealth will pay to the company an amount to meet such cost calculated on a basis to be agreed upon.

The Commonwealth Government will pay to the company an annual subsidy of £40,000 sterling. This payment will be increased by 8s. sterling for each 1 lb. of mail in excess of 40,000 lb. carried in any year, but will not in any case exceed £50,000 sterling. The Commonwealth will also pay to the company 16s. sterling for each lb. of mail originating in Australia or its territories which is carried by the company in any year, but so that the annual amount under this head shall not he less than £32,000 sterling and shall not exceed £52,000 sterling.

This morning, Senator Grant urged that all costs mentioned in the agreement should be expressed in Australian currency instead of sterling. I remind the honorable gentleman that as this is a network agreement, which will affect many countries with different currencies and differing rates of exchange, it has been deemed necessary to set out the financial provisions in sterling, so that in the event of the exchange rising or falling, the necessary adjustments . may be made without difficulty.

The tota’l liability of the Commonwealth in respect of ground organization on the Singapore-Sydney section and its maintenance will not exceed £30,000 sterling per annum. Any amount expended in excess of that 3um will he re-imbursed to tlie Commonwealth by the Government of the United Kingdom. It is specifically provided that this sum shall include amounts to cover amortization of capital expenditure and amounts paid by the Commonwealth to the company in reimbursement of customs duty paid by the company in Netherlands East Indies.

The ‘Commonwealth will make no reduction of the subsidy paid to the Orient Line on account of the transference of mail to the air service. Some time ago the subsidy payable to the company was reduced by £20,000 per annum.

Senator Gibson:

– That reduction was made long before this agreement was contemplated.

Senator FOLL:

– I understand that, if it had not been made, the amount of subsidy payable under this agreement would have been higher.

Senator GRANT:

– As a result of the reduction of the subsidy, the- Orient Steamship Company makes fewer trips to Australia.

Senator FOLL:

– I do not think that there has been any alteration of the Orient Steamship Company’s time-table. The ships will not carry so much firstclass mail as they do now, but they will continue to carry second-class mail matter. The agreement with the Orient Company covers more than the carriage of mails. Other phases of the contract, such as the provision of refrigerator space, are beneficial to Australia.

The Commonwealth agrees to protect Qantas Empire Airways Limited against loss of unamortized capital due to premature termination of the existing contract for an air service between Brisbane and Singapore. The agreement sets out in detail the responsibilities of the two governments in respect of ground organization within Australia, through Netherlands East Indies, and at Singapore, and, as I have already stated, the total liability of the Commonwealth under this head will not exceed £30,000 sterling per annum. The working of the scheme will he supervised by an advisory board, to be set up in London, composed of representatives of the governments of the dominions and colonies participating in the scheme, and of India and AngloSudan.

The explanation which I have given covers all the matters dealt with in the inter-governmental agreement. Many of these matters are also dealt with in the agreement between the Commonwealth and Qantas Empire Airways Limited. The latter agreement will provide for an air service between Sydney and Singapore of a frequency of not less than three trips each week. The service is to be established by craft of the flying boat type known as the Short “ C “ class, but, as I have already indicated, provision is made for the substitution of some other type, if the selected type is found to be unsatisfactory. Should it be found impossible to arrive at an arrangement satisfactory to the Commonwealth, the agreement may be terminated.

I point out that the flying boats will not necessarily arrive at regular intervals. People in both Great Britain and Australia have developed the habit of posting their letters, not in any uniform order, but in greater volume towards the end of the week than in the middle of the week. It may, therefore, be found necessary to arrange that one flying boat shall arrive early in the week, and the other two fairly close together towards the end of the week. The schedule will be arranged to give the most efficient service.

The agreement contains the necessary provision to ensure that the service shall be carried out by efficient aircraft. The route is to be the shortest practicable route between Sydney and Singapore, and the stopping places at the commencement of the service will be : Singapore, Batavia, Sourabaya, Bima, Koepang, Darwin, Groote Eylandt, Karumba, Townsville, Gladstone, Brisbane and Sydney. I have already referred to the provisions relating to the variation of stopping places. The service will be for a period of fifteen years from the 3rd August, 1938. The company must own, and have available on the route, not less than six aircraft of the approved type, but provision is made for an exchange of aircraft between the company and Imperial Airways Limited, so as to enable the aircraft of both companies to fly over the whole of the route.

I referred to the main features of the agreement between the Commonwealth and Qantas Empire Airways Limited when explaining the agreement between the two governments. The main provisions of the Commonwealth-Qantas agreement may be more appropriately dealt with when the bill reaches the committee stage. I commend the measure to the Senate.

Senator COLLINGS (Queensland [ 5.5]. - The Opposition will notoppose this bill, which it believes to be long overdue.. So far as this legislation will keep the Commonwealth abreast of modern inventions for the practical annihilation of time and space, it has the support of the Opposition. Desirable legislation is better late than never.

I was very pleased to “ hear the Minister in charge of the bill (Senator Foll) say that the Government did not contemplate any alteration of the splendid air-mail services which now operate between the capital cities and the outback portions of the Commonwealth. That is highly important. In this connexion, I pay a tribute to the invaluable work which is being done by Qantas Empire Airways Limited, one of the parties to this agreement. In Queensland that company has provided a wonderful service.I believe that it holds a world record for any similar service in respect of safety and efficiency. No other flying service carrying so many passengers and flying so many miles has been so immune from accident.

should like the Minister to say whether the claims of Cooktown, in the north, of Queensland, to become a seaplane base have been considered by the Government. A communication which, I have received summarizes the special claims of Cooktown as follows: -
1. Proximity to possible enemies. Cooktown’s harbour is the most northerly and convenient harbour.
2. Low cost (practically nothing) of securing suitable sites.
3. Harbour, wharfage, seaplane, aerodrome and railway facilities very convenient.
4. Suitable sites for storing munitions, fuel,&c.
5. High hills, e.g., Grassy Hill and Mr Saunders at entrance to harbour, Mr Cook and others nearby.
6. Dredgings from harbour could be used to -reclaim mangrove covered flats adjacent to harbour, thus making the land suitable for any desired purpose.
7. The completion of Cook Highway from Daintree to Cooktown is most desirable also from the defence viewpoint.

– They are subject to ratification by Parliament.

Senator LECKIE:

– I should like to know whether or not we are already absolutely committed to this expenditure. By accident, I happened to glance at clause 7 of theFirst Schedule, which appears to me to be a direct insult to the Commonwealth. I cannot understand why this Government agreed to such a provision, because it casts a reflection upon its good faith. That clause reads -

The Commonwealth Government considers those requirements to be essentially a matter between the Commonwealth Government and Qantas Empire Airways Limited, but an assurance is given that the Commonwealth Government will at no time attempt to avoid any liability which, having regard to the broad principles of the arrangement between the two governments, should fairly and equitably be borneby the Commonwealth Government.

Senator Duncan-Hughes:

– But that has been written by a high commissioner.

Senator LECKIE:

– I do not care who drafted it. To me, it represents a slur on the good faith of this Government. I repeat that I shall refuse to vote for a measure the provisions of which I have not been given an opportunity to examine fully.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– I move -

That the debate be adjourned.

Such an adjournment, if agreed to, will afford honorable senators an opportunity to read the bill and the voluminous agreements contained therein.

Question put -

That the debate be adjourned.

The Senate divided. (Deputy President - Senator Sampson.)

AYES: 5

NOES: 19

Majority . . . . 14

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– By interjection the Minister suggested that in moving for the adjournment of this debate I was endeavouring to take the business before the Senate out of the hands of the Government. That certainly was not the case. Throughout my parliamentary experience, extending over more than a quarter of a century, I have always found it to be a normal procedure for any member who desires more time to enable him to study a bill, to move the adjournment of the debate. I confess, of course, that in the Western Australian Parliament legislation is not skimped and hurried through as often happens in this chamber.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Sampson). - I ask the honorable senator to confine his remarks to the bill.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

-I congratulate the Minister on his lucid and informative speech, to which I listened very carefully, and assure him that he is probably the last honorable senator in this chamber whom I should wish to inconvenience by a technical formality. I moved for the adjournment of this debate because I thought an opportunity should be afforded honorable senators to deal with a measure of this magnitude, under which the Commonwealth will be committed to heavy expenditure for the next fifteen years. I thought it fair and reasonable that we should be given an opportunity to read the voluminous agreements embodied in the measure, none of which, I confess, I have yet read. The Minister’s speech did not help me in the slightest degree in that respect. Two points, each of a minor character, caught my attention. The first is that all payments under these agreements are to be made in sterling. I cannot help wondering why an agreement to which the Commonwealth is a party should provide for payments involved therein to be made in other than Australian currency.

Senator Foll:

– I pointed out that these payments are to be made in sterling, because a network of agreements is involved, covering the operation of the scheme in several countries with varying currencies.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– The second point which struck me was that the petrol tax payable in respect of all petrol used by the flying boats on the Australian section of this service is to be refunded to the company. When the tariff was under discussion I moved for the refund of import duty on all petrol used in respect of stationary engines and engines installed on farms, the lighting of lamps in rural districts, aeroplanes, and launches operated by their owners as a means of livelihood, such as fishing launches. I omitted launches used for pleasure. I also stated that the remission had been granted in New Zealand, but this Government refused to accept it as a practical proposal. I refuse to believe that officers in the Commonwealth Customs Department are less efficient than those in the Customs Department of New Zealand. I hope, therefore, that other aeroplane companies, fishermen and farmers will be granted similar refunds of the tax on petrol used by them. Having had insufficient time to study the agreements, I refuse to accept the responsibility of assisting to ratify them. Had an adjournment of the debate been granted, I should have been able to comment upon this important proposal. In the absence of information, I shall not oppose the measure, and I trust that that intimation will assuage any irritation which the Minister may have felt, and show my trust in the Government, at least to this extent.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

– I do not intend to oppose the passage of this bill, but, like other honorable senators, I object to the undue haste which the Government has displayed in rushing it through the Senate. I was una ware, until Senator J ohnston spoke a few minutes ago, that this agreement, involving the expenditure of huge sums in subsidies, is to operate for fifteen years. I trust that the Minister (Senator Foll) will enlighten me concerning some portions of the agreement, the purport of which I am unable to grasp at such short notice. In the first place, I should like to know whether this service is likely to compete with any other similar services, but that seems unlikely in view of the huge subsidy to be paid. Paragraph i of clause 5 of the agreement embodied in the first schedule provides -

Aircraft operating the Empire air-mail service (which is hereinafter referred to as. “the service “ ) under the scheme will not be charged housing or landing fees in Australian territory and any custom or other duty or taxes collected in Australia on fuel and oil used by aircraft on flights in performance of the service . . . will be refunded.

The effect of that paragraph is to exempt the companies while operating in Australia from excise and customs duties on certain specified commodities, which is a very liberal concession. Paragraph a of clause 6 of the first schedule provides -

The Commonwealth Government will pay to Qantas Empire Airways Limited a minimum annual subsidy of £40,000 sterling. The subsidy payment will be increased by 8s. per pound for each pound of mails originating in Australia or its territories carried in excess of 40,000 lb. per annum, but shall not exceed £50,000 sterling.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2945

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following bills re ported : -

Science and Industry Research Appropriation Bill 1938.

Invalid and Old-age Pensions Appropriation Bill 1938.

Representation Bill 1938.

Bill returned from the House of Representatives without amendment.

page 2945

PASSPORTS BILL 1938

Message received from the House of Representatives intimating that it had agreed to the amendment made by the Senate in this bill.

page 2945

DAIRY PRODUCE EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Represen tatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

–

I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This measure proposes an alteration to the Dairy Produce Export Control Act 1924- 1937 on similar lines to that to be effected in regard to the control acts, relating to canned and dried fruits and meat. A. provision is contained in this act requiring that an annual report shall be submitted by the Australian Dairy Produce Board in the month of July, and the board finds difficulty in completing the voluminous detail of that report within such a short space of time. The Government proposes, therefore, to extend the time allowed for this work, but desires to make provision that the document may be made available to Parliament, and the dairying industry generally, as soon as completed. The clause, for these reasons, is being altered to provide that the annual report shall be presented at any time prior to the 30th September of each year. Other amendments to the Dairy Produce Export Control Act 1924-1937 are made by this bill, to meet the situation which has arisen with regard to the representation of dairy factory managers and secretaries on the Australian Dairy Produce Board.

When this board was reconstituted in 1935, provision was made for one member of the board to be elected by the Federal Council of the Dairy Factory Managers and Secretaries Association, in accordance with procedure set out in regulations. The Federal Council consisted of representatives appointed hy an association of factory managers and secretaries in each State, each of which had its own set of rules, and each of which was quite independent of the others. The character of the organization has been changed, however, by the merging of the whole of these associations into a federal body with State branches. The new organization has been registered under the Companies Act of “Victoria under the name of “ The Australian Institute of Dairy Factory Managers and Secretaries”, but it carries on with the same personnel of membership and officials as the. former Federal Council. The bill now before the Senate amends the act by substituting for the title “Federal Council of the Australian Dairy Factory Managers and Secretaries Association the new name “ The Australian Institute of Dairy Factory Managers and Secretaries “. It proposes also a slight change of the method of appointing the representative of the institute on the Australian Dairy Produce Board. It has been necessary, to comply with the provisions of the present act, for the members of the council to elect their representative by a ballot, conducted by the Commonwealth Chief Electoral Officer. The practice has been for a certified list of the members to be furnished by the secretary to the council, each of the persons named in that list to have a vote in accordance with .the prescribed procedure. The bill proposes that the appointment shall be made on the nomination of the Australian council of the institute, thus leaving the system of election to the decision of the council. This will simplify the routine of the appointment, and will leave the selection of the member of the board entirely in the hands of the governing body of the institute. The member elected at the last election will continue to act until the expiry of the term of his appointment.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

Sitting suspended from 6 to 7 p.m.

page 2946

MEAT EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MACDONALD) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Included in the Meat Export Control Act 1935-1936, is a provision which requires the Australian Meat Board to submit to the Minister in the month of July each year a report as to the operation of the act during the preceding year. This report is presented, subsequently, to Parliament, and is then circulated widely throughout the meat industry. A corresponding provision exists in the acts under which other similar boards are constituted, with the exception of the Wine Overseas Marketing Act, which allows up till the end of September for this purpose.

The Australian Meat Board has taken advantage of the provision as to the submission of reports to submit for the information of the Parliament and of the meat industry generally, not only a report on its own activities, but also authentic statements regarding the conditions existing in the industry, and as to the disposal of its products overseas together with a valuable collection of statistical data. The report “also includes the financial statements of the boards, and it is necessary, therefore, to have all the accounts completed, the balance-sheets prepared, and the books audited.

In the compilation of reports, a large amount of detailed work is undertaken to make them accurate and as comprehensive as possible, and experience has shown that, with the year closing at the 30th June, it is difficult, even with preparations well advanced before that date, to complete the work within the short space of the month of July, as prescribed in the Meat Export Control Act as it now stands, especially as a certain amount of the information has to come from the United Kingdom after the close of the year’s operations.

The advantages accruing from an early dissemination of the information contained in these documents are appreciated, and the Government considers it desirable that the relevantsection of the act should be worded so as to permit of the presentation of the report to Parliament and its subsequent distribution to other interested parties, both within the Common wealth and overseas, at the earliest possible moment.

The Government believes that a period of, three months after the close of a particular year should afford ample time for the board to prepare and submit its reports. Accordingly, the only object of the bill now before the Senate is to grant to the Australian Meat Board the convenience of additional time, up to the 30th September of each year, for the compilation of its report if necessary. The new provision is so altered as to permit of the presentation of reports at any time before that date if possible. The Government believes that this action will, whilst granting to the board a valued concession, encourage it in its efforts to make the document even more valuable in the years to come.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

– I have no particular objection to the bill, but it seems to me that there is a tendency on the part of many Commonwealth boards to delay the preparation of their reports, sometimes for twelve months after the due date. They are then of little use to Parliament. This practice shouldbe discouraged. In this case the delay will be only until the 30th September, so perhaps not much inconvenience will be caused. It is, however, important that reports from these boards should be, if possible, presented on the due date.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2947

CANNED FRUITS EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) read a first time.

Second Reading,

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is twofold. The primary purpose is to allow the Canned Fruits Control Board additional time within which to prepare and present its annual report. Like the Australian Meat Board, the Canned Fruits Control Board has found that the month of July does not offer a sufficient period for the work which has to be done after the close of the year, and the Government proposes to extend the time so that the board’s report may be presented as soon as it is ready before the 30th September.

In the second place, the bill relates to the name of the board. Recent practice has been to drop the word “control”. The experience of the Canned Fruits Control Board shows that the use of the word “ control “ in relation to the board’s activities is not desirable. It has been found to lead to misunderstandings as to the actual functions of the board; in some instances the term has been regarded as all-embracing, including the sale of goods. Accordingly, the board has deemed it expedient to use the title - as at present set out in the act - only in legal documents.

Further, it appears desirable that the name of boards such as this should include the word “ Australia “. For these reasons, it is proposed to adopt the name “ Australian Canned Fruits Board “ instead of “ Canned Fruits Control Board “ which has been used hitherto.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2947

CANNED FRUITS EXPORT CHARGES BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

.- I move-

That thebillbe now reada second time.

The Canned Fruits Export Charges Act relates to the imposition and payment of charges on the export of canned fruits. Regulations may be made for exempting canned fruit from the charges imposed by the act and also for prescribing lower rates of charges. In both cases, however, it is necessary for the Canned Fruits Control Board to recommend the exemption or reduction.

Under the bill just considered by the

Senate, it. is proposed that the name of the board shall be altered to read: “Australian Canned Fruits Board “. In the circumstances, it becomes necessary for the new name to be inserted in the Canned Fruits Export Charges Act in place of the name at present specifically referred to therein. This bill provides that the act shall be amended to effect this purpose.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2948

DRIED FRUITS EXPORT CONTROL BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

.- I move-

That the bill be now read a secondtime.

It is necessary, in order to comply with the provisions of the Dried Fruits Export Control Act 1924-1937, for the Dried Fruits Control Board also to present a report to the Minister in the month of July each year, covering the operation ofthe act during the twelve months ended on the preceding 30th June. This board, in common with the Australian Meat Board, has seen in this section an opportunity to furnish much valuable information in relationto the dried vine fruits industry, but italso experiences difficulty in completing the detail within the prescribed time. The Government, proposes that this board, also, shall be allowed an extended period for the work, and the bill now under consideration makes provision for the presentation of the report at any time prior to the 30th September.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2948

CITRUS FRUITS BOUNTY BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant . Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be nowread a second time.

The bill now before the Senate provides for a bounty, at a reducing rate, on citrus fruits exported to destinations other than New Zealand during the threeyears 1938, 1939 and 1940. The bounty will be at the rate of 2s. an export box for 1938,1s. 6d. an export box for 1939, and 1s. an export box for 1940. These amounts apply to a box which contains approximately l½ bushels. For the bushel box they are to be proportionately reduced. It may interest honorable senators if I outline briefly the position with regard to assistance to this industry since 1933. In that year, following the imposition of an embargo on Australian citrus fruits by New Zealand, growers were guaranteed their out-of-pocket expenses on oranges exported to the United Kingdom. The guarantee was renewed in 1934, and, as that year provedto be particularly disastrous on account of adverse seasonal conditions, a bounty of 6d. a case was granted on oranges exported to the United Kingdom.

A bounty at the rate of 2s. an export case has been paid in respect of the years 1935, 1936, and 1937. Although the New Zealand embargo has been partially lifted in each year since 1933, in favour of fruit from areas certified to be free from fruit fly, it has proved a serious handicap, particularly to New South Wales growers, in the marketing of their crops. Growers were obliged to place large quantities of fruit on the Sydney market which were previously exportable. Che result has been that the prices of all kinds of citrus fruits have been depressed on that market.

Two years ago, when the industry was seeking continuance of the bounty, its representatives were informed that, unless the industry did something to help itself through its own organization, the Government could not even consider any further claims for assistance. As the result, the industry formed the Australian Citrus Advisory Council in 1937. The objects of the council are briefly to investigate and to advise the Government upon matters relating to the production and marketing of citrus fruits, with a view to improving the status of the industry and ensuring better marketing conditions for producers. The council has been hampered in its activities because of the uncertainty in the minds of growers regarding the future, and it has, therefore, recommended that, instead of dealing with the bounty from year to year, the Government should approve a bounty over the next three years at reducing rates. It is considered that there is much merit in this recommendation as the council and the industry, with a. knowledge of what they are to expect over the next three years, and of the fact that the bounty will cease at the end of that period, can devote their attention to solving some of the problems which to-day militate against the satisfactory marketing of their fruit.

– The bounty will be payable on navel oranges exported to certain countries.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– Yes, before the date specified.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 5 to 12 agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2952

INCOME TAX COLLECTION BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) read a first time.

Secondreading.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of the bill is to give to the Government authority to enter into arrangementswith any State government for the periodical deduction from the salaries of officers and employees of amounts due in ‘ respect of Stale taxation of salaries or wages. When the Financial Emergency Act was passed in 1931, provision was made in that act for the Commonwealth Government to enter into such arrangements with any State’ government for the deduction of State taxes from the salaries of Commonwealth officers, but this authority applied only to persons whose salaries and allowances were reduced under that act. Since October, 1936, the salaries of Commonwealth officers and employees have not been subject to any deduction under the Financial Emergency Act, and the authority to make deductions of State taxes from salaries of. Commonwealth officers and employees therefore ceased to have effect from that date. Arrangements were entered into between the Commonwealth and four States under the powers conferred by the Financial Emergency Act, and deductions were made and are still beingmade by virtue of that power, in respect of Unemployment Relief Tax. As the authority no longer exists, it is necessary for the Commonwealth to have legislative cover for its action in making the deductions and authority to continue to make the deductions. The arrangements have proved a convenience to the State governments concerned, and it is believed that the present practice meets with the approval of the officers and employees themselves. The arrangement previously made was inserted in the Financial Emergency Act primarily as a concession to the officers and employees themselves, who were thus able to spread their unemployment relief tax payments over the whole of the year, a convenience which was particularly advantageous at a time when salaries were severely reduced by the Financial Emergency Act. It is now proposed that this arrangement shall be made permanent and the necessary authority is by this bill incorporated in the Income Tax Collection Act 1923-1934. I commend the bill to the favorable consideration of honorable senators.

Question resolved in the affirmative-.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2952

EXCISE TARIFF 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The schedule to the bill now before the Senate covers the excise tariff proposals introduced into the House of Representatives on the 8th December, 1937. A comparison between the proposed rates of duty and the rates imposed by the Excise Tariff 1921-1936 is made in the memorandum, which has been circulated among honorable senators. The schedule is a short one, and embodies a variation of the excise duties payable on Australian spirit, used in the manufacture of essences, perfumes and toilet preparations. The proposed duties vary little from the rates now in operation, but the scope of the item is enlarged somewhat in order that interested Australian industries may receive wider and more stable benefits. The proposed duties are based upon recommendations made by the Tariff Board, after a thorough investigation of the matter, and various primary industries will benefit under them. The remaining item in the schedule provides for an excise duty of 6d. a cwt. on

Australian-grown tobacco leaf. This is a levy to provide funds to enable the Federal Tobacco Advisory Committee - a committee of tobacco-growers - to function. The whole of the duty collected under this item will be paid to the Federal Tobacco Advisory Committee for use by that body solely for its own purposes. The items in the schedule are for the purpose of assisting Australian industry, and I therefore commend the bill to honorable senators.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate.

page 2953

HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Senator A. J. McLachlan) agreed to -

That the Senate,at its rising, adjourn until to-morrow at 2.30 p.m.

page 2953

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE BILLS

Sitting suspended from 8.11 in 9.20 p.m.

page 2953

ADJOURNMENT

AppleandPear Industry - Retiring

Senators - Valedictory - Public Works Committee : Resignation of Member

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. -I move -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

This morning Senator Johnston asked the following question of the Minister representing the Minister in Charge of Scientific and Industrial Research: -

Has £20,000 been granted to the Council for Scientific and IndustrialResearch for research into the apple and pear industries during the past two years?
What results have been attained?
What proportion of the sum mentioned has been spent in Western Australia?
Is this particular research work to be continued and extended?
If so, will a fair proportion of the funds involved , be devoted to Western Australia?

The Treasurer has furnished me with the following answers : -

A sum of £25,144 was made available for the period ending the 30thJune, 1938, to cover research and demonstration and advisory work in connexion with the apple and pear industry.
Reports indicate that excellent work has been done in each State, particularly on the problems of dieback, nutritional difficulties, and reworking of trees to more suitable varieties. In addition, important work has been done in connexion with packing instruction and demonstration plots.
Out of the total provision of £25,144.a sum of £1,850 was allocated to Western Australia.
Afurther sum of £14,000 per annum will be made available for the next four years for this work.
The allocations to the States are determined in the light of recommendations made by conferences of officers representative of the Commonwealth and the State Departments of Agriculture. The allocation to Western Australia for the next four years will be £1 , 700 per annum.

The Senate, whose existence, as it is at present constituted, will terminate at 12 o’clock to-night, will be reconstituted when it meets to-morrow. On behalf of those honorable senators whom it is my privilege to lead on this side, I desire to say that we wish God-speed to all honor able senators who are leaving us. Some are retiring of their own volition.Among them is Senator Cox, with whom we deeply sympathize in the terrible affliction that has overtaken himin his later years. The honorable gentleman served in this Senate for eighteen years, and has given valuable serviceas a representative of the people. Senator Millen has been a memberof this chamber for eighteen years.We all regret that on account of hishealthhe was obliged to leave the Senate a few days ago and has not since been able to attend the sitting. My colleague from

South Australia, Senator DuncanHughes, has served as asenator for over six and a half years. We much regret his voluntary retirement, but we hope that some day he will see fit to honour again the halls of this legislature with his presence.

Honorable Senators. - Hear, hear!

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Of Senator Massy-Greene, I can say that he has not been at all times a quite comfortable colleague because of his pungent criticism of measures which did not meet with his approval, and his strong adherence to principles which he holds sacred. Nevertheless, we always respected him for the fearless expression of his views. Sir Walter has served as a senator for fourteen years, and by the exercise of his brilliant intellect, and because of his grasp of business affairs generally, as well as in his capacity as a debater, he proved a valuable colleague. Senator Hardy has been with us for the comparatively shortperiod of six years. I deeply regret his departure. Occasionally we felt the lash of his criticism, but we could not help admiring him for his devotion to public duties, his masterly exposition of facts, and the care with which he prepared them. My friend and former ministerial colleague, Senator Brennan, has served as a senator for seven years. I regret that indisposition prevented him from attending the later sittings of the Senate. Although some of us may have wilted under his caustic criticism, he was one who endeared himself to all members of this chamber. Senator Guthrie, who has been in the Senate for eighteen years, has always been a stalwart advocate of the interests of the primary producers, and weregret his departure. Senator Plain at one time occupied the position of Chairman of Committees and discharged those duties with zeal and ability. He has been a member of this chamber for nineteen years, during which time he hasgiven valuable service to the people. Senator Sampson, who left earlier in the evening, discharged the duties of Chairman of Committees with marked ability during the last three years. He has been in the Senate for over twelve years, and has been a consistent and earnest advocate of certain principles that he holds dear.

Senator Payne, another hard worker, has rendered signal service. Occasionally the honorable gentleman caused Ministers a good deal of discomfiture, particularly in tariff debates, in connexion with which we have good reason to remember bis fearless criticism. He leaves us with a long record of valuable public service. Then there is Senator Sir George Pearce, to whom we have already said good-bye. He left us last night after 37 years of service. The right honorable gentleman has made an indelible mark on the political history of this country. I need say no more of him now, because a few days ago, at a farewell gathering, we expressed our appreciation of his distinguished public services, and conveyed to him our high regard and admiration for that talent which, I venture to say, has never been surpassed, if ever it has been equalled, in the Commonwealth Parliament. There is one other friend to whom we are sorry to say good-bye. I refer to your good self, Mr. President. To-night, owing to the turn of the wheel of fortune, you will relinquish the exalted position that you have held for 31½ years. During your stay here you have endeared yourself to honorable senators on both sides of the Senate. Despite our diverse political opinions, you, Mr. President, have guided us well, but we prefer to think of you in your personal capacity, as a friend and colleague, rather than as a presiding officer. Your charm of manner, yourbonhomie, and your hearty laugh will be missed in senatorial halls. We wish you well in your period of retirement. I am sure that you will often return, in your thoughts, to Canberra, and to this Senate chamber, and that some night you will awake from a dream and imagine that, in stentorian tones, you are calling an unruly senator to order. We desire to convey our best wishes to you and those associated with you. I think that I am speaking on behalf of all parties to-night, irrespective of political differences, when I say that, in view of your retirement from amongst us, we all wish you Godspeed, good health, and happiness in whatever calling you may choose to follow in the future.

Senator COLLINGS (Queensland) that one realizes exactly what is happening to-night in regard to the representation of the various States in this chamber. I wish to associate myself and other members of the Opposition with all that the Leader of the Senate (Senator A. J. McLachlan) has said of a personal nature concerning those honorable senators who are retiring. Those who are leaving us of their own volition, and who arc in good health, do not, I am sure, need any sympathy, although they have our goodwill. As to those who are retiring because of ill health, we deeply regret the reason for their departure. Those who have suffered a reverse of political fortune also have our sympathy, because, whenever an election occurs, there is not one of us Avho does not anticipate the possibility of being placed in a similar position. Those of ug who are not retiring can sympathize deeply with those who are, because we have quite unnecessarily anticipated their feelings. I have no regret at the latest turn of fortune’s wheel. Some splendid figures are leaving us, but the Opposition will be compensated for its sense of personal loss by the knowledge that others who will take their places will swell the small number of those who at present represent the Labour party in the Senate.

Whatever the future holds for you, Mr. President, wo all hope that you will enjoy good health and fortune, and that in whatever sphere of activity you engage., you will be as happy as I am sure you have been during your occupancy of the Chair in this chamber. On many occasions, I have felt aggrieved, as have some of my colleagues, because your decisions have not favoured us, but I do not remember an occasion, certainly not as far as I am personally concerned, when I have not realized that your decisions have been right, and that your rebukes, if unpalatable, have been justified. I realize that we might havehad an occupant of the presidential chair who could have been more severe than you, and who could have made our lives rather uncomfortable at times. Our good will goes with you, and, whoever the new President may be, I hope that he will be as kindly disposed towards our weaknesses, and as gentle in rebuking us, as you have been.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– As a member of the Country party, and also speaking personally, I wish to be associated with all of the remarks of the Leader of the Senate (Senator A. J. McLachlan) regarding the meritorious public services of different lengths that have been given by the retiring senators. The Country party has suffered a great loss through the defeat of its Leader in this chamber (Senator Hardy), who has proved himself a broad-minded Australian and a generous-hearted and clever young man, who, I venture to say, will, with a change of his political fortunes, have a brilliant future if he decides to return to politics. In such an event, he will, no doubt, take a prominent part in the affairs of the nation. Speaking of my Western Australian colleagues, I wish to refer particularly to you, Mr. President, whom I have known for many years, both when I was a member of the Parliament of Western Australia and during my term in this Parliament. I thank you for the courtesy which you have always extended to me and to the members of the Country party. As a Western Australian, your loyalty to your colleagues has been most marked, and I feel sure that our State is losing one of its most eloquent and consistently valiant advocates. I recall what you have done for Western Australia, and for the prosperity of the whole of the people of that State, and particularly do I admire you for the way in which you have fought during a period of over 30 years in the interests of the men and women on the land in Western Australia.

I desire to refer to the loss which the Country party sustained at the last election through the defeat of my colleague, Senator Marwick, and, of course, I extend the congratulations due to successful political opponents. Senator Marwick has been an excellent worker in the interests of the men and women on the land, and, although only a young man, he displayed a keen desire to assist in the work of this National Parliament and to promote the progress of Australia. I have not had any other opportunity to pay a tribute to his excellent, though brief, services. I believe that, being a young man,he will return on some future occasion to one of the branches of the legislature in Canberra, and do good work for his own State and for the people of Australia generally.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

.- As one of those who are to some extent responsible for the mournful observations made to-night by the Leader of the Government and the Leader of the Opposition, I, too, extend my sympathy to those honorable senators who have been defeated at the polls. As I remarked on a former occasion, neither I nor the members of the Opposition harbor any feeling of vindictiveness towards political opponents. I have appreciated my eight months’ association with my colleagues who are leaving this Senate to-night. I wish them God-speed, and all the good things which they could desire for themselves.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. P. J. Lynch)[ 9.38] . -My last official act to-night, before the clock strikes midnight, is to report to the Senate that I have received from Senator Brown, that robust champion of the interests of Queensland, and I suppose, the greatest freelance in this chamber, a communication tending his resignation as a member of the Public Works Committee. This means only that he goes to his doom for two-and-a-half hours, and will have a glorious resurrection to-morrow. The kind remarks that have, fallen from the lips of the Leader of the Government (Senator A. J. McLachlan), the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) and other honorable senators, have almost unnerved me. Those honorable gentlemen appear to be in their usual robust state of health, but I fear that they have left me considerably shaken. I am remindedon occasions such as this of Mark Twain’s philosophical observation that it is never wise to speak well of a man until he is dead. I cannot allow this occasion to pass without recountinga story concerning my elevation to the high and important office whichI am now about to relinquish. Honorable senators may remember that after having been a humble wayfarer in the ranks for years and years,I was sud denly elevated. I shall tell the story briefly. An indulgent friend said to me, in afriendly way, that it was about time that I sought a higher station. I said that I didnot know how to go about obtaining it, and asked what I should do to qualify. He said: “Do you know anything about May?” I replied: “ We have a good blacksmith by that name in the little hamlet in Western Australia, where I come from. He shoes horses very well and his charges are very reasonable.” He said: “Oh, I don’t mean that May. but another May - the man who wrote May’s Parliamentary Practice”. I asked whathe was like, and he said : “ I shall soon show you”.From somewhere in the building he brought a book of tremendous size; it reminded me of the Oxford. Dictionary or the Doomsday Book. I found that it contained over 1,000 pages. When I inquired of my friend what the book was for, he replied: “You will have to study it”. But that was not all; he brought another book of about 900 pages and said: “If the views expressed by May do not suit you and you still want to win your point, the other book willbe your second barrel “. He then directed my attention to a smaller book with a red cover, and sa id : “You will have to master its con- tents “.I made up m y mind to work hard and trust to luck. In fact, that was all that I could do. I “dogged and devilled “ morning, noon and night, with the result that eventually I reached this elevated stand whichI have occupied for six years. I do not know how well I digested the contents of those huge volumes, or the red covered book; 1 can only say that of all the rulings thatI have given, not one has ever been dissented from.

Senator Brown:

– Honorable senators have been afraid to disagree with the Chair.

The. PRESIDENT. - The explanation comes under one of a number of headings; first, that the other members ofthe Senate knew less about the Standing Orders than I did. That conclusion, however, is unthinkable, and must be discarded. Another reason is that honorable senators may have thought thatif the

Presiding Officer were brought up with a round turn, the correction would be so much time lost. And so I am forced to conclude that they accepted the third alternative, and decided to let me go my own way; they would put up with meas wellas they couldwhile I occupied the Chair, and would grin and bear whatever happened. That, I think, is the explanation of my elevation to this high office. I am pleased that I have blundered along so successfully. Apparently, honorable senators who are keen, even to the minutest detail, have been willing to allow my rulings to go unchallenged. I hope that my successor will have as good a run. Had I not succeeded it would not have been for want of trying. I assure honorable senators that I have tried to do my best. I am glad to know that, whether or not 1 have really given satisfaction, honorable senators have not grumbled at my conduct of the proceedings. I retire to commune with mother nature in the western State, glad in the knowledge that I have had the great good fortune to be associated with so many good men in the public life of this country. They have loaded me with their bounty in the way of kindly commendation. Reflecting upon these matters, I sometimes wonder whether the electors did really make a mistake, because, in rejecting me, they placed me in the position of being therecipient of many generous expressions - a mood which otherwise I might have missed. The last, the most stubborn, and, I hope, the most steadfast recollection thatI shall have of the Federal Parliament is that it has been such a grand custodian of the rightsand liberties of the people of this country, and thatit has realized the fondest and most ardent expectations in which I indulged concerning it when federation was consummated. The measures that have emanated from this Parliament have been for the great good of the overwhelming mass of the people of this country. At all events, it was not due to any lack of expression of the will of the people, given in the freest manner imaginable, if what was desired wasnot extended to them in the laws under which they were expected to live. The glorious privilege of living in this country is not appreciated and assessed as it should bo, because our people are not acquainted with the miserable conditions which obtain in other countries. We are sometimes apt to become rather downcast when we think that our glorious institutions are not valued at their true worth. Although they have come to us as a gift wo should not, on that account, undervalue them.Rather should we regard ourselves us the children of a grand pioneering race, which braved many dangers in order to pass on to us this wonderful continent of ours - men who went out into the interior, and suffered all the privations and miseries of a pioneering life, frequently having more dinner times than dinners, often wondering in the vast solitudes of this country whether they would live to see the morrow. Because of the noble endeavours of our forebears, surely we have cast upon us an abiding obligation - that we should walk determinedly and fixedly in their footsteps, not lag behind, and that we should keep alive that pioneering spirit whichhas done so much towards making this continent what it is. If we do that, there is hardly any doubt as to how we shall fare. But if we should fail in the trust that has been reposed in us, I am afraid that danger will lie ahead. As a parting word, I say that every man and woman in this country, with a mind to think and a heart to feel, must appreciate to the full the efforts that have been made in the past to ensure for us the spend id measure of freedom’ and liberty that we enjoy to-day, without any striving on our part. Therefore, it is our duty to see that this precious heritage shall be held by us in close keeping, so that we may pass it on to our children and our children’s children.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– If you will be good enough, Mr. President, on this your last appearance in the Senate, to take your stand on the dais, honorable senators will take leave of you severallyand personally as they pass out of the Senate.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Senate adjourned at9.50 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 30 June 1938, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1938/19380630_senate_15_156/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

Senate30 June 1938

PAPERS

QUESTION

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE

Senator ASHLEY:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONSINSURANCE BILL1938

Senator COLLINGS:QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1937

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1938-39

Second Reading

Senator A J McLACHLAN:Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator COLLINGS:Queensland

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator COLLINGS:

Senator Foll:

Senator COLLINGS:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator COLLINGS:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:Western Australia

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

The PRESIDENT:

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

The PRESIDENT:

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

Senator BROWN:Queensland

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator BROWN:

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator BROWN:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator BROWN:

Senator E B Johnston:

Senator BROWN:

Senator Crawford:

Senator BROWN:

Senator A J McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator BROWN:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator BROWN:

Senator BRAND:Victoria

Senator HERBERT HAYS:Tasmania

Senator Gibson:

Senator HERBERT HAYS:

Senator ASHLEY:New South Wales

The PRESIDENT:

Senator ASHLEY:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator ASHLEY:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator ASHLEY:

Senator GIBSON:Victoria

Senator E B Johnston:

Senator GIBSON:

Senator Herbert Hays:

Senator GIBSON:

Senator Herbert Hays:

Senator GIBSON:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GIBSON:

Senator SAMPSON:Tasmania

Senator DEIN:New South Wales

Senator CUNNINGHAM:Western Australia

Senate
30 June 1938

Senator ASHLEY:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator COLLINGS:
QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1937

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator BROWN:
Queensland

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator BRAND:
Victoria

Senator HERBERT HAYS:
Tasmania

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

Senator GIBSON:
Victoria

Senator SAMPSON:
Tasmania

Senator DEIN:
New South Wales

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

Senator GRANT:
Tasmania

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

Senator COURTICE:
Queensland

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

Senator BROWN:
Queensland

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator GRANT:
Tasmania

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

Senator GRANT:
Tasmania