Senate
29 June 1938

15th Parliament · 1st Session



The President (Senator the Hon. P. J.Lynch) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 2774

PAPERS

The following papers were presented’ : -

High Commissioner for Australia in London -Report for 1937.

Norfolk Island Act -

Advisory Council Ordinances - Regulations amended.

Exportation ofFruit Ordinance - Regulations.

Customs Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1938”, No.61.

Nauru - Report to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of Nauru during the year 1937.

New Guinea - Report to the Council of the League of Nations on the Administration of the Territory of New Guinea from 1st July,1936, to 30th June, 1937.

page 2774

EMBARGO ON EXPORT OF IRON ORE

page 2774

MORTGAGE BANK BILL

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Will the Leader of the Senate state whether it is a fact -that the Parliament is to go into recess at the end of this week without having dealt with the promised legislation for the establishment of a long-term mortgage branch of the Commonwealth Bank? In view of the assistance that this legislation is expected 10 give to many persons engaged in the rural industries, why cannot the Parliament sit for an extra week in order to approve this portion of the Government’s election policy?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I am unable, at this stage, to say whether the Parliament will or will not adjourn for the recess this week, although it was hoped by all parties, I believe, that we should be able to do so. The Mortgage Bank Bill has, I understand, been prepared, but . owing to the prolonged nature of the discussion on the National Health and Pensions Insurance Bill, Cabinet has not had an opportunity to examine it. I believe that the Government intends that this measure shall bo brought before the Parliament immediately on its resumption after the forthcoming recess.

page 2774

QUESTION

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE SCHEME

Royal Commission: Preference to Returned Soldiers

Senator ASHLEY:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– When the personnel of the royal commission, which is to inquire into -the position of members of the medical profession . under the national health and pensions insurance scheme, is being selected, will the Leader of the Senate give consideration to the appointment of a medical practitioner who is conversant with the conditions in the medical profession in both metropolitan and country districts?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Treasurer, Mr. Casey, will have charge of the recommendation to Cabinet concerning the personnel of the commission, and I shall pass on to him the . suggestion offered by the honorable senator.

Senator COLLETT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Will the stuff charged with the administration of the proposed national health and pensions insurance law be appointed in the same manner as for other public departments?
  2. If so, will the same degree of preference bo accorded to returned soldiers possessing the necessary qualifications? ‘
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Treasurer has supplied the following answer : - 1 and 2. Section15 ofthe National Health and Pensions Insurance Bill provides that officers shall be appointed subject to, and in accordance with, the CommonwealthPublic Service Act 1922-1937, which safeguards the position of returned soldiers.

page 2774

QUESTION

USE OFWOOL

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

– Has the attention of the Assistant Minister for Commerce been drawn to the statement which appeared in the Brisbane Courier Mail of the 28th June, that a factory in Germany is producing 85 tons of woolstra daily? In view of the fact that woolstra is a serious competitor of wool, will the Minister inform the Senate what steps are being taken to meet this competition, and to popularize the use of wool throughout the world?

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Minister without portfolio assisting the Minister for Commerce · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP

– I have not seen the newspaper report referred to, but I remind the Senate that propaganda for wool publicity designed to counteract the competition of wool substitutes is in the hands of the Wool Board. This body is co-operating with similar organizations in South Africa and New Zealand, and with certain interests in the United Kingdom. A conference of representatives of the wool industry is being held in England at the present time. Various measures have been adopted, and are in course of preparation to establish by scientific research wider fields for the use of wool, and by propaganda, to stimulate the use of wool generally in competition with substitutes. The “Wool Board is financed by a levy on wool production, and the Government is satisfied from the reports which it has received that the funds are being expended in a way advantageous to the industry.

page 2775

THIRD HEADINGS OF BILLS

The following bills were read a third time : -

Ashmore and Cartier Islands Acceptance Bill 1933.

Seat of Government Acceptance Bill 1938.

Science and Industry Research Appropriation Bill 1938.

page 2775

PASSPORTS BILL 1938

Second Reading

Debate adjourned from the 28th June (vide page 2716), on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald. -

That thebill be now read a second time.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– The Opposition does not intend to oppose this bill, which provides for the amelioration of the more severe conditions which for many years have prevailed in regard to passports. I am glad to see that we are gradually getting away from some of the things that were done during the years when it was thought necessary to be more, particular with regard to passports that it is to-day. In 1923, when I visited New Zealand, ‘I found that it was more ‘difficult to get into that country, and, later, to get out of it, than to enter any other country of which I then had knowledge. Before J could enter New Zealand, the authorities learned the colour of my eyes and of my hair, my age, and my religious beliefs, if any. The questionnaire which I was asked to sign included a question relating to my reasons for desiring to enter New Zealand. I replied to that question that I was a tourist. As a matter of fact, I was an emissary of the Labour party, but I was afraid to say so, for fear that I should be refused admittance. Had they unpacked my luggage, they would have found among it a lotof propaganda matter, which, in those days, would probably have been considered subversive.

Senator Abbott:

– Did not the honorable senator’s visit result in the overthrow of the government?

Senator COLLINGS:

– Ultimately that result was achieved, hut it took some time for the germ of enlightenment to penetrate the minds of the people of New Zealand. The Opposition is in accord with the principles underlying this bill, and will give to the measure a speedy passage.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee :

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 - (1.) In this act, unless the contrary intention appears - “ Administrator “, in relation to a Territory, means the person in control of the administration of that Territory;

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the words “ in control of the administration of that Territory “ bo left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ charged with the duty of administering the government thereof on behalf of the Commonwealth “.

The purpose of the amendment is to bring the definition of “ Administrator “ into line with the definition in the Papua Act and the New Guinea Act. It is a purely formal amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

Clause 7 (Issue of Australian passports).

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- Does this clause mean that an Australian citizen will not have to obtain a passport to enter another country, or does it mean merely that he will not need a passport if he goes to another part of the British Empire? If he does not need a passport to enter another British dominion, the bill does not mean a great deal. I realize that it would not apply to a person going to a foreign country, because such a person would need an Australian passport, but I desire to know whether an Australian citizen,may go to another part of the British Empire without a passport.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– This clause deals with the form of an Australian passport. It removes the penalty now imposed on an Australian citizen who leaves the Commonwealth without a passport. I suggest, however, that any Australian subject who proposes to leave the Commonwealth should obtain a passport before leaving; the possession of it would facilitate his movements abroad. An Australian wishing to enter another country, either British or foreign, has to prove his bona fides as a British subject.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 8 to 10 agreed to.

Clause 11 (Where proceedings may be instituted).

Senator HERBERT HAYS:
Tasmania

– I draw the attention of the Assistant Minister to the fact that many complaints have been made with regard to delays and difficulties attending the issues of passports in the past when everybody desiring to leave Australia was obliged to obtain a passport. It is now proposed to make it optional for persons about to leave the Commonwealth to obtain a passport, and I should like an assurance from the Minister that every facility will be given for the issue of passports, and that every endeavour will be made to avoid unnecessary delay and expense. Such delays in the past have been most irritating.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

. - I assure the honorable senator that everything possible will be done to facilitate the issue of passports in the future. At the same time I point out that more facilities exist in this respect in Australia than in most countries, mainly because of our decentralization of this work, passports being available at each of the principal ports of the Commonwealth. Furthermore, this bill is now taking us a step further in that direction by removing the existing penalty for leaving- the Commonwealth without a passport.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 12 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with an amendment.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2776

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL 1938

Second Reading

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to provide £15,000,000 out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund for the payment of Invalid and Old-age Pensions. It has been the custom in the past to appropriate from the Consolidated Revenue Fund an amount of approximately one year’s expenditure in order to enable the fortnightly payment of these pensions to proceed without interruption. The last appropriation made for this purpose was one of £15,000,000 in June last. The total amount appropriated by Parliament for Invalid and Old-age Pensions up to the present is £210,250,000. The estimated expenditure to the 30th June of this year will be £208,110,000, leaving a balance of £2,140,000 to meet future expenditure. A further appropriation of revenue is, therefore, necessary. The provisions of this measure have no connexion whatever with the rates of pension or the conditions under which they are payable.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and reported from committee without amendment or debate.

Standing and Sessional Orders- suspended; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2777

REPRESENTATION BILL 1938

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Honorable senators are aware that while in this Senate each State of the Commonwealth is equally represented re- gardless of the numbers of its people, the Constitution provides that representation of the several States in the House of Representatives shall be in direct proportion to their respective populations subject only to the proviso that no original State shall have ‘fewer than five members. At the inception .of the Commonwealth the States were assigned the representation in the House of Representatives to which they were then respectively entitled, and in order that requisite adjustments might bo made from time to time, the Representation Act, a machinery measure, was passed in 1905. That act at present provides generally that for the purpose of determining the numbers of members of the House of Representatives to which the several States are entitled there shall be an enumeration day every five years, ‘normally on each decennial census day and at the date midway between those days. It is proposed by this bill to amend that act to provide that in future enumeration days for the purpose of determining the numerical representation of the States in the House of Representatives shall be those days only, on which a census is taken. The reason for this proposal is that, as the actual count of the people at a census is the only definite and unquestionable means of ascertaining the actual population of the respective States, it is considered that only on such occasions should representation be subject to alteration. On two previous occasions, in 1916 and 1930 respectively, short acts have been passed by this Parliament avoiding the inter-censal enumeration day then falling due - in 1916, be cause of the temporary dislocation of the true population arising from the absence of the Australian Imperial Force overseas, and in 1930, for reasons similar to those obtaining at present. The action taken in 1930 was fully justified by subsequent results, because whereas on the Statistician’s estimate of 1930 Queensland was entitled to an additional representative, the census of 1933 disclosed that that State was not so entitled, and consequently, had there been no avoidance of the inter-censaenumeration day, Queensland would have secured for a brief period a representative to which the State was “not truly entitled. The last enumeration day under the Representation Act was the last census day, the 30th June, 1933, and, as a period of five years will then have expired, the 30th June, 1938,. would, except for the amendment proposed by this bill, be the next enumeration day. If the 30th June, 1938, were appointed enumeration day, the ascertainment of the numbers of the people and the number of representatives to be chosen in respect of each State, would, as required by the existing regulations, be based on the returns supplied by the Statistician showing- the estimated population as at the 31st March, 1938. These returns are not yet available, but those furnished as up to the 31st December, 1937, show that as regards representation New South Wales and Queensland have each advanced by sixteen points since the date of the last census, whilst Victoria has receded by twentyeight points, with the result that on the 31st December last, New South Wales was only one point, and Queensland six points, short of the qualification for an additional representative; whereas Victoria only needs to drop another four points to lose a member.’ In other words, the estimated population of the respective States on the 31st December. 1937, and the representation figure derived therefrom was as follows: -

As New South “Wales advanced by over two points in the December quarter, and also by over two points in the JanuaryMarch quarter of last year, it is highly probable, should the 30th June, 1938, be made an enumeration day, that that State would thereupon become entitled, on the Statistician’s returns, to an additional representative, but only by an exceedingly narrow margin, whereas there is a remote possibility of Victoria’s representation being reduced by one, also by a bare margin. In this connexion, however, it is particularly important to bear in mind, and the point is deemed to be of vital relevancy, that the population figures contained in the Statistician’s returns, other than those resulting from a census, are estimates only, and however great the care exercised irc their compilation may be, such estimates must after a period of years possess a very definite element of inaccuracy. In such circumstances, especially as the margins may often be so extremely narrow, as in the present instance, that even the slightest degree of error would result in the unmerited gain or loss of a representative, it is considered that the proper and only safe course is to avoid all danger of wrongful disturbance of the representation of the States by restricting the enumeration days, as proposed by this bill, to those days on which an actual count of the people is made by means of a census. II might be added in relation to the present instance that while the population of _ New South Wales is undoubtedly ( progressively expanding, the Statistician’s returns indicate a tendency towards a somewhat abnormal expansion in that State during the wanner period of the year, from which it may be conjectured that the population of New South “Wales, taken as at December or March is in reality inflated to a degree by an influx of a temporary or transient nature.

Further, while admitting that representation is based on total population and not on the number of qualified electors, it is worthy of note that the average enrolment per division in New South “Wales is already considerably below the average in Queensland or South Australia and only very slightly above the average in Victoria.

For the reasons set out it is proposed by this amending bill to provide that henceforth census days only shall be regarded as enumeration days of the purpose of reviewing the numerical representation of the .States in the House of Representatives. If the hill be agreed to, the immediate effect will be that no enumeration day will be appointed on the 30th June, 1938, that is to-morrow, but that the next review of representation will be made when the results of the next census are available, probably in 1941. By that time, provided the statistician’s estimates are approximately correct and there is no appreciable change in the -trend of population movement, it would appear likely that both New South Wales and Queensland will become qualified for an additional representative while Victoria will lose one. Confident in the expectation that all honorable senators will agree that the course proposed to be followed is both wise and just, I submit the hill and urge its speedy passage.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– I do not intend to oppose the bill because I realize its value. My colleagues also intend to support it, but I take this opportunity to offer a few comments in general terms on the subject of representation in this Parliament. My remarks will refer particularly to this chamber and the position of honorable senators. It has been alleged, particularly in recent times, that the Senate is a place where very little work is done. I regret to state that newspapers continually foster the belief, which is very far from the truth, that because this chamber sits only so many days in each year, it is only on those days that senators do any work to earn the money which a grateful nation rnakes available to them. I deny that statement absolutely, and figures which I shall cite will prove that in no other part of the British Empire are the representatives of the people so overworked, if one appraises the services rendered on the basis of the average number of electors represented by eac member of this Parliament. Taking first the House of Representatives, I find that in the general elections of 1903 there were 1,893,586 electors enrolled, so that each of the 75 members of that chamber represented an average of 25,248 voters. In the election of 1913, the average number of electors for each member was 36,803, in 1925 it had increased to 44,027, and in 1934 to 52,036. The estimate of the population at the 31st March last gives an average number of 54,581 electors for each member, and oil those figures itis computed that at the next census day, the 30th June, 1 941, the electors will total 4,250,000, so that each member will then represent on the average 56,666 voters.

An examination of similar figures relating to other countries is illuminating. In Great Britain, for instance, in 1935, the number of electors was 31,374,449, giving an average of 51,051 for each of the 615 members of the House of Commons.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– In Great Britain, the density of population makes representation an easier matter.

Senator COLLINGS:

– Exactly. Moreover, in Great Britain, the London County Council is responsible for the police and educational services for about 8,000,000 people. In’ Canada in 1935, 245 members represented 5,919,506 electors, or an average for each member of 24,161; in New Zealand in the same year, 76 members represented 919,798 electors, or an average for each member of 12,102, and in Eire, in 1937, 138 members were elected to represent 1,759,082 electors, or an average for each member of 12,747.

The figures relating to Senate representation are more impressive. In the general election in 1903, the average number of electors represented by each senator was 52,599; in 1913, the number had risen to 76,672; in 1925, it was 91,722; in 1934, it was 108,407 ; at the 31st March of this year, the estimate was 113,710; and it is believed that, at the date of the next census, it will be 118,055. I should add that, in Queensland, which now has a population of nearly 1,000,000, Senate representation of this chamber imposes a severe physical strain on senators, because of the immense distances which they have to travel in order to meet people in various parts of that State. It may be said that the six senators from Queens land, or other States where distances are great, can share the amount of travelling and other work involved; but, apart from the political differences of senators representing rival parties, in practice this is not feasible because electors insist upon seeing all their representatives. Therefore, each senator must do a great deal of travelling, otherwise he will be in danger of being forgotten, which is fatal to any member of Parliament. Efficient representation of any State, and, particularly, States with great areas, involves a tremendous amount of correspondence, all of which should be, and, I presume, is, attended to. I know that all Labour senators attend to their correspondence.

The figures which I have given show that, if members of this chamber discharge their duties properly, theyhad a strenuous life. It is a mistake for any one to suppose that the time occupied in the discussion of legislative measures on the floor of this chamber represents the whole of the work done by senators. It is probably the least strenuous part of it. Honorable senators do most of their work when they return to ‘their respective States. The Opposition believes that this measure should be passed, particularly as Queensland will probably be entitled to an additional member in the House of Representatives at the date of the next census.

Senator ALLAN MACDONALD:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP; LP from 1944

– Assistant Minister) [3.51]. - in reply - The question raised by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) with regard to an increase of the number of members of this Parliament is one of government policy, and, as the bill merely provides for a further enumeration day in respect of the election of members of the House of Representatives, the increase of the number of members of this Senate and the various activities of individual senators are irrelevant matters. Before the number of members in the House of Representatives could be increased, the number of members of the Senate would first have to be increased, because the Constitution provides that the total number of members of the other chamber shall be as near as practicable double the number of members of the Senate. In chapter 1,

Part II., of the Constitution, section 7 provides, inter alia -

Until the Parliament otherwise provides, there shall be six senators for each original State. The Parliament may make laws increasing or diminishing the number of senators for each State, but so that equal representation of the several original States shall be maintained and that no original State shall have less than six senators.

I suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that when the proposed committee representative of both branches of the legislature is appointed to consider the method of electing senators, consideration may be given by it to the question of increasing the representation of the various States in the Senate.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

NEW BUSINESS AFTER 10.30 . p.m.

Motion (by Senator A. j. McLachlan) proposed -

That Standing Order No. 68 be suspended up to and including Tuesday next, to enable new business to be taken after 1.0.30 p.m.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– The Opposition does not oppose this motion, but draws attention to the fact that it bears eloquent testimony to the justice of the complaint which the Opposition has lodged, session after session, that too much haste is shown in concluding our legislative work. The Parliament could have sat for another week or two, in order to give to the various measures submitted to it the calm consideration which it should apply ‘ to them. To rush legislation through the Parliament is improper and unwise, and I hope that some day the present practice will be discontinued.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. P. J. Lynch). - There being an absolute majority of the whole number of Senators present, and no dissentient voice, I declare the question resolved in the affirmative.

Sitting suspended from4.2 p.m. to 10 p.m.

page 2780

HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Senator A. J. McLachlan) agreed to -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till 10 a.m. to-morrow.

page 2780

ADJOURNMENT

Marine Radio Beacon at Cape Otway:

GroundingofShips on Queensland Coast : Na turalization .

Motion (by Senator A. J. McLachlan) proposed -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD (Western

Australia - Assistant Minister) [10.5]. - Some time ago Senator Leekie asked a question with reference to the installation of radio ‘beacons on the Australian coast.I now inform the Senate that the first radio beacon was put into operation at Cape Otway Lighthouse, Victoria, at noon to-day. Successful tests have been made, and the beacon will now be able to assist ships equipped with wireless directionfinding -apparatus to obtain their bearings in thick weather and when visibility is bad. In order to take advantage of the facilities provided by the beacon, ships will require to carry, as part of their wireless telegraphic equipment, direction-finding apparatus. Only passenger vessels of 5,000 tons and upwards which engage in oversea voyages are required, under the Navigation Act, to be so equipped, but

I feel sure that the value of the beacon at Cape Otway will be so pronounced that all the principal coastal vessels which use the waters in the vicinity of Cape Otway will voluntarily install this directionfinding apparatus. The experience of the Cape Otway beacon will be used by the Lighthouse Advisory Committee in its recommendations, to the Government regarding the ‘ installation of additional beacons at prominent points on the Australian coast.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- I welcome the statement of the Assistant Minister. Some time ago I asked that an inquiry should be made into the causes of several wrecks which had occurred on the Queensland coast, and he told me that the department was making an investigation. I anticipated that he would be in a position before now to tell me the. result. If he has not the information, will he be good enough to obtain it and inform me as early as convenient?

Senator BROWN:
Queensland

– Some time ago 1 made representations to Mr. Paterson, the then Minister for the Interior, on behalf of a foreign citizen who had been refused naturalization. That man has been living in Australia for about 30 years, and, so far as I am aware, there is no reason -why his request should be refused. I made inquiries and learned that the police or the department knew nothing against the man’s character; he has never been prosecuted in any court. I know that he is a hard worker and has a wife and several children. I have brought the matter to the notice of the Minister for the Interior, and Mr. McEwen has promised to have inquiries made. If Mr. McEwen, following the lead given by his predecessor, refuses to allow this man to be naturalized, will I have the right, as a member of this Parliament, to obtainfrom the Minister the reasons for the refusal? I understand that -the man wishes to be naturalized in order to be secured in the ownership of some land; naturalization will give to him certain legal rights which he does not at present possess.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. -in reply. - I have some recollection of representations made by Senator Brown with reference to an application for naturalization by a foreign resident. If the honorable gentleman will furnish me, in confidence, with the name of the man, I shall refer it to my colleague who represents the Minister for the Interior, and inquiries will be made. Hundreds of similar cases are dealt with in the department. Some applications have to be referred to the law officers of the Crown.

Senator Brown:

– The present Minister for the Interior has promised to give the matter his attention. I want to know if, in the event of naturalization being refused, I can obtain from the Minister the reasons.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I was reaching that point. I understand that this man’s application is again before the department. If it is refused I shall tell the honorable senator what are his rights. 1 cannot say, offhand, what are the rights of persons under the Naturalization Act. It is sometimes against the public interest to disclose the reasons for refusing naturalization. ‘ I do not suggest that that is so in this case; but it may be undesirable to make a disclosure.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Semite adjourned at 10.15 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 29 June 1938, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1938/19380629_senate_15_156/>.