Senate
16 October 1918

7^th Parliament · 2^nd Session

PETITION
- Entertainments Tax
REPATRIATION
PAPERS
SHORTAGE OF PAPER
QUESTION
- SEVENTH WAR LOAN
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN” IMPERIAL FORCE
QUESTION
- JAPAN
QUESTION
- METALS
QUESTION
- PAPUA
QUESTION
- SHIPPING
QUESTION
- PAPER SUPPLIES
QUESTION
- RECOGNITION OF GALLANTRY
QUESTION
- APPLE EXPORT
QUESTION
- RABBIT AND RABBIT -SKIN TRADE
SUPPLY BILL (No. 2) 1918-19

The President (Senator the Hon. T. Givens) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 6882

PETITION

Entertainments Tax

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I desire, on behalf of 5,130 persons, residents of New South Wales, to present the following petition protesting against the extension of the entertainments tax to 3d. tickets-

The PRESIDENT:

– It is not necessary that the honorable senator should read the petition.

Senator GRANT:

– I wish to read it, sir.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator cannot read the petition at this stage. The proper course for the honorable senator to follow is -to present the petition, and afterwards move that it be read, if he thinks that necessary. He must state whether it is vouched for by the Clerk, is respectfully worded, and ends with the usual prayer.

Senator GRANT:

– The petition is certified to by the Clerk as in conformity with the Standing Orders, and ends with the words, “ And your petitioners will ever humbly pray.”

Petition received and read.

page 6882

REPATRIATION

Rugs ‘-Supplied to Returned Soldiers. Senator BARNES.- I ask the Minister for Repatriation whether he is aware that returned soldiers are being given rugs by the Repatriation Department made of wool, cotton, and shoddy, and manufactured in Switzerland?

Senator MILLEN:
Minister for Repatriation · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– No.

Senator BARNES:
VICTORIA

– Arising out of the Minister’s reply, I ask him whether he will have inquiries made into the matter with a view to having the practice altered ?

Senator MILLEN:

– My first answer . was ‘* No” ; my second is “ Yob.”

page 6882

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : - Australian Imperial Force - List of Members who have been granted Commissions - since 25th March, 1918. Customs Act 1901-1918- Regulations amended -Statutory Rules 1918, No. 253. Defence Act 1903-1018. - Regulations amended- Statutory Rules 1918, No. 240. Public Service Act 1902-1917. - Regulations amended.- Statutory Rules 1918, No. 252.

page 6882

SHORTAGE OF PAPER

Parliamentary Printing. The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. T. Givens). - I desire, by permission of the Senate, to make a short statement regarding matters affecting the conduct of its business for the information of honorable senators. Towards the close of last month - to be exact, the communication was dated the 25th September’, 1918, although it did not reach me for some days later - I received’ the following letter from Mi. W. A. Watt, the Acting Prime Minister, addressed jointly to Mr. Speaker and myself : - Dear Sirs,

I desire to inform you that the Common wealth Government is taking steps to control the use of paper, and proposes to reduce consumption where possible in connexion with governmental activities.

In this connexion the following suggestions bare been submitted : -

The free issue of - Hansard to be curtailed, and strictly limited to a few absolutely necessary cases.

The daily notice-paper to contain only questions on notice, Government notices, and such notices as disagreement’ with the Speaker’s ruling, motions of no-confidence, and private members’ notices appearing the first time.

The Printing Committee to be asked to take urgently into consideration any further recommendations for curtailing the use of paper in connexion with the business of the House.

The question of such matters as reprints of members’ speeches to be reviewed. I shall be glad if these suggestions’ can receive early consideration.

That letter was jointly considered by Mr. . Speaker and myself, and was given the most sympathetic consideration, because, in common with every one else, we were aware of the growing ‘ shortage of paper and the difficulty of obtaining necessary supplies owing to lack of freight. We replied to that effect to the Acting Prime Minister. I desire now to inform honorable senators of what has been done in regard to the matter. Perhaps, if I refer to the last suggestion contained in the letter of the Acting Prime Minister first, it may shorten what I have to say. He suggests that the question of such matters as reprints of members’ speeches might be reviewed. In our reply, we pointed out- that this is a matter over which we have no control. It is entirely under the authority of the Commonwealth Treasurer, who controls the Governmentprinting.

The PRESIDENT:

– That is so; but the paper has to be used, and the issue of these reprints in the circumstances adds to the difficulties of the situation. However, it is a matter over which we have no control, and we informed the Acting Prime Minister accordingly.

In continuance of the efforts of the Presiding Officers to reduce, as far as practicable, the present cost of parliamentary printing, and. with special regard to the rapidly increasing cost and shortage of paper, a circular has been addressed, on behalf of Mr. Speaker and myself, to various recipients of the weekly issues of Hansard, with a view to ascertain whether, in the present circumstances, it is desired by them that the supply should be continued. Up to the present date, nearly 800 recipients have expressed their willingness that it should be discontinued, and the Government Printer has been instructed accordingly. By this means a saving of £500 per annum in the cost of printing alone has already been made, and it is likely that a considerable addition will be made to that amount. A much larger saving has been made by an alteration in the quality of the paper upon which Hansard is printed, the total amount saved by these two measures of economy being, approximately, £1,500. It will be recognised that this amount represents a considerable saving in the expenditure incidental to one Department of the Parliamentary Service. But although at the present time there is urgent and pressing need for economy in expenditure, . the need for economy in the use of paper is, for reasons with which honorable members are acquainted, at least equally important, and it is this latter consideration which has largely dictated the measures which the Presiding Officers have taken in regard to the circulation of Hansard. The supply of Hansard, at the instance of honorable members, is unaffected by these arrangements, and will be continued as hitherto unless honorable members desire otherwise. The official report of the proceedings of this Parliament is for the purpose, among others, of accurate public information, and is the only report which reaches the various States of the Commonwealth. It should be mentioned that its gratuitous circulation, unlike that of the State and other Parliaments - which has been largely automatic - is based entirely upon applications, and that there are at the present time almost 1,000 subscribers.

In addition, we have made efforts to cut down the notice-papers as far as possible, consistent with the due and efficient performance of the duties and business of Parliament. I now desire to bring publicly under the notice of the Printing Committee the wish of the Government, and the need, for economy, in so far as it is consistent with national and public efficiency, by curtailing the amount of printing ordered by them. I hope these arrangements will meet with the approval of honorable senators.

SenatorFOLL. - Are you aware, sir, that fifty printed copies of the Budget speech have been sent to each honorable senator? Can no economy be effected in that direction?

The PRESIDENT:

– I was not aware of the fact. I know I received a number of copies myself, but it is a matter over which I have no control, and I do not think I should be questioned regarding it.

Senator GRANT:

– Is it proposed, sir, to cut out the supply of Hansard to schools of art and institutions of that kind ?

The PRESIDENT:

– The supply of Hansard has been discontinued to no one and no institution unless we were informed that there was no further need to continue it. It would be an absolute waste to continue to send Hansard to any individual or institution after it had been intimated to us that it was no longer required.

page 6883

QUESTION

SEVENTH WAR LOAN

Newspaper Advertising Charges

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Min ister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

What is the charge being made by the newspapers of Australia per inch for advertising the Seventh War Loan?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– Charges range from a minimum per inch of1s. 2d. to a maximum of 25s.

page 6883

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN” IMPERIAL FORCE

Case of Warrant Officer Corrigan - Commission Prior to Embarkation

Senator NEEDHAM:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Will he place on the table of the Senate all the papers in connexion with the court martial of Warrant-Officer E. C. Corrigan, of Molonglo Camp, New South Wales?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– As the papers referred to in the question have relation to a German Prisoners’ Internment Camp it is .not considered advisable, for reasons of public policy, to lay them on the table of the Senate as requested.

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

What commissions since 25th March last have been granted to soldiers in. the Commonwealth prior to going on overseas ^service ? .
To whom were the commissions granted, and in what military districts?

Senator PEARCE:

– The answer is given in the form of a return, which I will lay on the table of the Senate.

Senator PRATTEN:

– Arising out of the answer, may I ask if that return includes commissions granted abroad, as well as those granted here?

Senator PEARCE:

– The return has been compiled in strict accordance with the honorable senator’s questions.

page 6884

QUESTION

JAPAN

Imports of Dutiable Goods

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

The total values of dutiable goods under each of the sixteen divisions of the Tariff schedule imported from Japan during the year uncled 30th June last?
The corresponding total values of such goods so imported during the year ended 30th dune, 1914?

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

– As the answer is too lengthy to read, I lay it upon the table in the form of a return.

page 6884

QUESTION

METALS

Purchasing Agents for Tin - Directorates of Metal Associations

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice -

Is it correct, as stated in the Melbourne press of 10th instant, that the firm of Elder, Smith and Co. has been, appointed by the InterAllied Executive as sole buying agents of tin in Australia?
Will the said firm be restrained from trafficking in Australian tin other than as such sole buying agents?
Will the remuneration of such firm as such sole buying agents be made public?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answers are -

No official advice has yet been received as to the formation of the Inter-Allied Tin Executive or of the appointment of Elder, Smith and Company Limited as its agents. I understand, however, from unofficial sources, that Elder, .Smith and Company Limited have been appointed representatives in Australia of the Inter-Allied Executive at a remuneration payable by the Executive.
The company will only buy tin for export as agents of the executive.
See answer to No. 1.

Senator PRATTEN:

asked the Minister representing the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

What are the names of the persons, and the firms or companies represented, who constitute the executive, directorate, or committee controlling: -
The Zinc Producers Association.
The Copper Producers Association.
The Associated Smelters Limited.
Will the Government lay upon the table of the Senate the articles of association and agreements under which these bodies are working*

Senator MILLEN:

– The answers are -

I lay this information on the table in the form of a return.
Copies of the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the Zinc Producers Association Pty. Ltd. and the Copper Producers Association Pty. Ltd.- will be laid on the table of the Library.

The Broken Hill Associated Smelters Pty. Ltd. is a purely private company, over the internal management ‘ of which the Commonwealth Government does not exercise control. I do not think an> good purpose would be served by making public this company’s Memorandum and Articles of Association and private agreements with its shareholders.

page 6884

QUESTION

PAPUA

Development or Oil-fields.

Senator PRATTEN:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

Are any negotiations taking place with regard to the development and control of the Papuan oil-fields, and/or the erection of oil refineries in Australia by private corporations or individuals? If so, will the Government submit any proposed agreements to Parliament before they are finally dealt with?

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– Negotiations incidental to tentative proposals or offers of two companies have taken place, but are not yet complete. The question of submission to Parliament will be considered later. i . H ‘-‘jj

page 6885

QUESTION

SHIPPING

Regulation of Freight

Senator MAUGHAN:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Min ister representing the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is the Minister aware whether a report from Washington, United States of America, states that the House of Representatives has passed a Bill authorizing President Wilson to regulate exports from the Philippine Islands, the object of the measure being to release ships and carry wheat from Australia to the United States?
Is it a fact that the United States Government are desirous of attracting as many vessels to Australia as possible, with the object of carrying Australian wheat to the United States?
If the ships come here empty will not the freight on wheat bo proportionately increased ?
Does he consider it a good policy to further cut down the importation of any necessities that can be shipped from the Pacific Coast from whence paper is at present being shipped to Australia?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answers are -

Such a report as indicated was mentioned in the daily press recently. If correct, it will probably mean merely a. machinery measure on behalf of the American Government for legalizing control of vessels, &c.
There is no evidence at present that such a condition exists. Sonic time ago America was diverting sailors to Australia, some of which came in ballast, and was buying wheat f.o.b. for war purposes.
It does not necessarily follow, where ships under requisition make voyages one way in ballast, that increased freight would result, as while loss may be made on actual freight, it could be made up in the selling price or in other directions.
It is not considered good policy to restrict the importations of necessities in any way. Opinions may, however, vary as to what class of cargo would come under this heading.

page 6885

QUESTION

PAPER SUPPLIES

Australian Consumption

Senator MAUGHAN:

asked the Minister representing the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Has the Paper Controller informed the Victorian Advisory Committee that the census taken by the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner on 27th July, 1918, showed that the following quantities of paper were in the Commonwealth on that date: -

Is the Minister aware whether, as a guide, the Sydney Morning Herald’s normal consumption of reel news is 7,000’ tons per annum, and that the Brisbane Courier is 1,100 tons per annum, and that the stock of printings and writings shown is very low indeed, probably half the normal quantity?
Is the Minister further aware whether, if these items are further restricted, it would appear that the position will be acutely serious industrially and commercially?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answers are -

Yes.
I have no definite information on this point.
Every effort is being made to arrange for paper supplies to all interested with the least possible dislocation of the trade and industry.

page 6885

QUESTION

RECOGNITION OF GALLANTRY

Senator BAKHAP:

asked the Minister representing the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Has anything been done in the way of sending a communication through the Spanish Consul expressive of appreciation of the action of a Spanish officer (Senor Susciato) on board a vessel captured by a German raider on which vessel Australian women taken on the s.s.Matunga had been placed, the Spanish officer having at great personal risk thrown overboard infernal machines which endangered the lives of the Australian women referred to?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– Representations have been made to the Imperial Government with a view, if the statement concerning the Spanish officer is found to be substantially correct, to consideration of the question of the acknowledgment of his act in an appropriate manner.

page 6885

QUESTION

APPLE EXPORT

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What action, if any, has been taken by the Government to prevent during the war the total disappearance from the English market of Australian apples?

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– Owing to the action of the Government shipments of Australian apples were made to England each season until this year, when the shortage of shipping was responsible for the embargo. Goods shipped to England are those asked for by the British Government, and although the Commonwealth Government desires to ship its products, it cannot do more than place the position before the British Government, in whose hands alone the final decision rests. The question of including apples in any available freight will not be overlooked.

page 6886

QUESTION

RABBIT AND RABBIT -SKIN TRADE

Advisory Committee

Senator PRATTEN:

asked the Min ister representing the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is there an Advisory Committee or similar organization existing in connexion with the rabbit or rabbit-skin trade?
If so, what are the names, occupations, and addresses of the persons constituting such committee or organization?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answers are -

The Commonwealth Government does not now control the rabbit-skin industry, nor is there a Commonwealth contract for the supply of rabbits to the Imperial Government. No Advisory Committee ever existed in connexion with these matters.
See answer to question No. 1.

page 6886

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2) 1918-19

Bill received from the House of Representatives. Standing Orders suspended, and (on motion by Senator Millen) Bill read a first time.

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

– I move -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

The measure is to make available the ordinary Supply for the Public Service and other needs. It deals with the issue and application of £4,537,700 for the purposes set forth in the schedule. This will provide for the period ending in the middle of January next. The amount is made up as follows: - Ordinary departmental expenditure, £2,619,715; war expenditure payable from revenue, £1,767,985 ; refunds of revenue, £150,000. The last-mentioned amount is required for refunds of income tax and war-time profits tax, which are expected to fall due within the next three months. Provision is included for increases of salaries only in cases where increments are automatic under the Act or regulations, or under Arbitration Court awards, and in these cases only where the increased salary will not exceed £200 per annum. Increments to salaries over £200 will await the passage of the Appropriation Bill. The amount included for war services is mainly for war pensions and the repatriation of soldiers.

Motion (by Senator Grant) negatived -

That the debate be now adjourned.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– I protest against the passage of this measure with such haste. To vote a sum of £4,537,700 without having more than two or three sentences of information supplied is quite unreasonable.

Senator Earle:

– You have seen the Bill.

Senator GRANT:

– I had not seen it until this moment.

Senator Earle:

– Iread it weeks ago. The honorable senator evidently does not look at his files.

Senator GRANT:

– I have done so most carefully, and have only just been handed my copy. The Government should have placed the measure before the Senate some little time ago, at. least, and thus have given an opportunity for honorable senators to carefully look into the various details. What is being done in regard to the proposed construction of various works at Canberra? I learned from different sources that it was quite possible for the Government, at short notice, to erect fairly substantial houses for certain people who were supposed to have been sent to this country from abroad; but, so far, no provision has been made for ordinary Australian workmen who may be employed in the Capital Territory. What has been, or is to be, done in that regard ?

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

– Just now, when we hear so much of the possibility of peace with victory, some observations with respect to what the Mother Country has done since the war commenced, will be of interest to honorable members of the Senate.

Senator Millen:

– The honorable senator cannot make those remarks at this stage.

Senator PRATTEN:

– Why not?

Senator Millen:

– Because of the rules of the Senate.

Senator PRATTEN:

– I understood that on the second reading of the Supply Bill one could wander from Dan to Beersheba.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:
QUEENSLAND

– Order! The honorable senator has missed his opportunity. Upon the first reading of a Supply Bill matters that are not relevant may be fully discussed, and at any length. After that, all discussion must be confined strictly do matters relevant to the Bill.

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

– With respect to the construction of houses for workmen in the Federal Territory, this Bill contains no item of that nature; which, however, will be dealt with under the Works Estimates. I hope to bring them before the Senate during the week.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee:

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Issue and application of £4,537,700).

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

– Would it not be better to postpone consideration of the clause until the Committee has passed the items which constitute the amount set forth? That has been the practice hitherto, at all events since I have been a member of the Senate.

Clause postponed.

Clauses 3 and 4 agreed to.

Schedule.

Divisions 1 to 12 (The Parliament), £10,525, agreed to.

Prime Minister’s Department.

Proposed vote, £47,275.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I wish to bring under the notice of the Minister representing the Prime Minister a matter in connexion with the appraisement of wool. I have received the following letter, under date Perth, 17th September, 1918, f rom the member for Geraldton, Mr. J. C. WillCock, in the Western Australian Parliament : -

As promised, I am sending you these few lines re the appraisement of wool at Geraldton, which, I hope, you will be able to work in at the House when opportunity offers. Referring to wool appraisement it has been stated that the Imperial Government have given instructions to concentrate appraisements in as few places as possible. This procedure is entirely different to that of New Zealand, where there are about thirty centres, one of them appraising wool valued at only £1.000. In Geraldton, where it is proposed to abolish appraisement, £150,000 worth of wool was appraised last year. Geraldton is the centre of a large area of pastoral and sheep-farming country, and wool production is increasing very rapidly. You will see that there is a direct attempt to introduce centralization, and robbing outports of legitimate trade. Geraldton, besides being a port itself, is connected with the exporting centre of Fremantle by two railways, and if, by any chance, any particular class of wool is desired, it can be railed to Fremantle within twenty-four hours. The Government should have direct control of trade matters, but the Central Wool Committee appear to desire to have control of the trade and to direct where the trade of a country shall be done. Wool exporting firms (Dalgety & Co. and Elder, Smith, & Co.) are. satisfied with present arrangements. The wool-growers (most important of all) are also well satisfied. Accommodation has been provided, at heavy expense, to cater for expanding trade, and the trade should remain at centres where conveniences exist. “One thousand pounds has been spent at Geraldton in providing accommodation for appraising, and work involving the expense of hundreds of pounds is in progress to cope with this year’s clip, on the understanding that the appraisement would remain at Geraldton. One of the greatest problems of Australia is the centralization of population in large cities; but one cannot wonder, if trade is taken away in this arbitrary manner by direct Government interference, and work which has always been done in the country should be concentrated in the capitals of the States, by direction of Government officials; then the position will become worse instead of better. Why disturb conditions which have given satisfaction to every one concerned, for no other reason than to boost up the trade and benefit the vested interests of metropolitan areas?

In view of the fact that at Geraldton wool to the value of £150,000 was appraised last year, I ask the Minister to bring under the notice of the Government the question of reconsidering a de-termination which, I believe, has been arrived at, that after this year Geraldton will not be an appraising centre. If this decision has been come to at the request of the Imperial Government, as indicated in the letter, it appears that the system differs from that in operation in New Zealand, where centres may be established for the appraisement of wool to the value of only £1,000.

Senator THOMAS:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– In the Department of the Prime Minister we have an item referring to the Public Service Commissioner, and I desire to again raise the question of the position occupied by the Acting Commissioner. . He has been Acting Commissioner for, I think, nearly three years, and it is time that the Government appointed a Commissioner. Whether the Acting Commissioner should be appointed Commissioner or not, it is not for me to say. I am not speaking in advocacy of any man, but I have always taken the stand that a Department cannot be administered satisfactorily by an official who is only acting for the official head. Some time ago I raised’ this question also in connexion with the Defence Department, and I am glad to know that ; that Department is now administered, not by an Acting Secretary, but by a Secretary.

– Do the Government intend to maintain the .Commonwealth Police Force? Have they increased its numerical strength during the past twelve months, and is it a fact that the majority of the Commonwealth policemen are engaged on some duty or other in Queensland?

Senator MILLEN (New South WalesMinister for Repatriation) [4.13J. - I cannot say offhand whether the force has been increased within the last twelve months, but there have been no recent additions to it. Its continuance is a matter which the Government are now considering.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Home and Territories Department.

Proposed vote, £165,905.

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

– The following paragraph, concerning the Statistical Branch, appeared in. a recent issue of the Melbourne press: -

Sydney, Sunday. - “ A striking illustration of the extraordinary difference between State and Federal conceptions of the way of getting work done at its legitimate cost has recently come under my notice,” said the Premier (Mr. Holman) to-day. “In 1016-1917 a suggestion was on foot that the whole of the statistical work of the. Commonwealth should be concentrated in the hands of the Federal Bureau. This was subsequently abandoned, because the Commonwealth could not do the work nearly so economically as this State. In the Federal Estimates presented recently, £38,000 was set down to meet the expenses of the proposed transfer. The Commonwealth Treasury contemplates spending £19,000 on carrying out work hitherto done by the New South Wales office for £8,000, so that an increase of 240 per cent, would be the result of the transfer of the function from the State to the Commonwealth. This proportion seems to hold good in many such comparisons. Thus the income tax of the State is collected for just over 1 per cent, (actual cost, fi ls. per cent.) ; the income tax of the Commonwealth is collected at the rate of 2i per cent., which is £2 10s. per £100 collected.”

Senator Foll has based certain remarks upon a newspaper statement by Mr. Holman with respect to the relative cost of work in the hands of the Commonwealth and in those of the States. As to the matter of the collection of statistics, that is one of those things which should be controlled by one authority in Australia; and, if there is to be only one authority, there can be no doubt which it should be - that is> the Commonwealth. A proposal was made to the State Governments to try and bring about centralization of authority for collecting these very necessary figures. The State with which Mr. Holman is associated has demurred to that. And, in view of Mr. Holman’s general attitude, I cannot assume that he is opposing it because of any inherent weakness in the proposition itself, but because of Mr. Holman’s manifest determination to fight for what are known as State rights.

Senator Grant:

– He is even worse than Mr. Ryan.

Senator MILLEN:

– No one could be worse than Mr. Ryan. But I am a little amused when I find that Mr. Holman, of all men in Australia, speaks of the work being done economically in New South Wales. Outside of New South Wales there may be some people who believe that things are economically carried on there, but there is none in New South Wales who will accept that. Mr. Holman would be better employed in answering criticisms directed against the extravagance of the Government carried on under his Premiership than in making statements of this kind. I cannot here deal with particular figures, which are generally based on assumptions and estimates, but one set of figures I propose to refer to. The .newspaper report of Mr. Holman’s remarks sets forth -

In the Federal Estimates presented recently, £38,000 was set down to meet the expenses of the proposed transfer.

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

– Senator Grant referred to the possibility of utilizing Canberra land for the settlement of soldiers and others. He is evidently not aware that most, if not all, of the land suitable for settlement there is already under lease. Some of the leases terminate in from twelve to eighteen months, and others at longer periods. The honorable senator is quite correct in saying that some time ago I undertook to see what possibilities there were there for returned soldiers. I have done so, and the result is the information which I have just given. The first of the shortdated leases will not terminate, I believe, within twelve months, and then only very small and isolated portions will become available. The great bulk of the land is leased for longer periods; and obviously it is not desirable to buy out with compensation existing tenants holding leases with such comparatively short terms to run. I doubt whether much of the land will be suitable, in any case, for the returned men for whom holdings are being sought; that, however, is a matter for the experts.

The item of £250 is for operating expenses. I presume it covers working costs and maintenance charges on the water and sewerage systems already constructed. The Government have decided not to proceed with any other works at the Capital than the necessary completion of works already commenced, or the maintenance of those already constructed. No new work in that direction is contemplated.

Senator REID:
Queensland

.- I wish to support Senator Newland’s remarks about carrying on work in the> Federal Territory. On my visit, which took place some time ago, I came to the conclusion that it would be a wise policy for the Government to continue the work there as far as possible. One reason ist that it would preserve a great deal df the work already carried out, which if left would’ deteriorate and become useless, as any one who knows anything about public works will admit. My experience tells me that, otherwise, a great deal already done there will go to waste, and the money spent will be lost.

The . Government may have decided wisely, in view of public opinion, not to> spend much money on the Capital; but there is one way in which money could be well spent. As one who has had something to do with works, I believe it could, be spent there to practical and useful purpose in this way : The great majority of the men coming back want jobs. We must recognise and face the fact that they are not after land, but after jobs. The Government would act wisely in setting some money aside to go on with works already started there, so that they may become of some use to the country at an early date. There is plenty of work in the Territory that should be carried out in order to find these men work, and to fulfil the promise made by a previous Government that the Capital would be established at Canberra at the. earliest possible date. A great deal of money will be required for the repatriation scheme; but the Government can wisely expend money at the Capital in putting up buildings and going on with works, bringing the whole matter under some central authority.

I regret to hear from Senator Newland that money is being spent there under divided authority, and that no one seems to know why or how. I understood that some one had been put in charge as sole director.

Senator Millen:

– So he has.

Senator REID:

– I am simply taking Senator Newland’s statement because he is a member of the Public Works Committee, and has been there recently. I was astounded to hear that divided control still existed, because there is no doubt that an immense amount of money has been absolutely wasted there through the various Departments fighting each other. I am pleased to receive the Minister’s assurance that the business is now under one director. The whole responsibility of seeing that the Federal Capital is constructed according to plan should rest with that director. Quite a number of public works can be carried on there with benefit to the Commonwealth Capital, the Government, and the men for whom we have to find jobs as they come back. If the work is taken in hand now, and the plan carried out with foresight, the men can be gradually drafted on- to the jobs as they come forward. I urge the Minister to see that inquiries are made as” to the necessary carrying out of the plan that has been settled for the Federal Capital and Territory. Estimates should be obtained showing the requirements now. and in the near future in the way of materials, so that the necessary buildings and other works may soon be put in hand.

Despite all the talk about the repatriation of returned soldiers, the fact remains that, as most of them really want jobs, the Government can wisely engage a large number of them in that quarter on their return. Many different kinds of mechanics have gone to the Front, and when then return their trades may not be able to absorb them immediately owing to the existing slackness in various directions, particularly in the building line. Men of ability, like those used to building work, could be drafted to the Capital. I urge the Minister to see if something cannot be done now to make preparations to absorb the men. Money spent in that way will be wisely spent, giving a good return to the Government and the country. With proper management and good foremen, the work there will be one of the best monuments that we could have. It will be a credit to the country and to the returned soldiers themselves as showing what our soldiers did when they came back after saving civilization in Europe. It is not a matter of sentiment, but of the practical carrying- out of an undertaking that will give full value in return.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– Any suggestion, from whatever quarter, to proceed with the erection of the necessary buildings at Canberra will be most strongly resented by those who are personally and financially interested in keeping the Capital in Melbourne. I doubt very much if any efforts will overcome that very strong opposition to the removal of ‘the Capital to Canberra. It was really understood by the major portion of the electors when they voted for Federation that the Capital would be moved definitely to Canberra within a limited number of years, ten years being the generally accepted term, and many were astounded to find that there was nothing to that effect in the Constitution.

I do not know that the adverse comments on the expenditure of public money there are fully justified. It may be true that a gravitation, scheme for the water supply to the city would be better than that installed on the Cotter ‘River, but I understand that advice taken at the time was in favour of the Cotter River scheme. It may or may riot be more costly than gravitation, but the scheme is there.

Senator NEWLANDS:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– A very fine scheme, too.

Senator GRANT:

– It appears’ so to me. It may be a bit costly, or it may not be more costly than any system of gravitation would be.

The quality of the water is excellent, and the quantity, so far as I could ascertain, is ample, notwithstanding adverse comments upon it from time to time by ill-informed journals.

Extensive brick works have been erected capable of turning out many thousands of bricks per week. I do not know that these works have ever been fully utilized, and I am not quite satisfied that ‘the material on the spot is of the very best quality. ‘That, again, was a matter for the experts who handled the question, and they were satisfied that the brickworks were being erected in a proper position. They may be in quite a wrong position.

Efforts were made on more than one occasion to establish the Arsenal in or near Canberra, but both sites were found inferior to that since chosen*. ‘

The existing power-house was con’structed, not to supply the present requirements at Canberra,, but to supply current for much more extensive businesses. It is, therefore, quite possible that the power-house may be used only for a few hours per week or day, but surely it is much better to have there a power-house capable of supplying whatever current is necessary than to have to make additions from time to time.

A small railway has been constructed* from Queanbeyan, but that line is absolutely essential. Without it, it would be impossible to get the material on to the site; or, at any rate, it could only be conveyed with much greater difficulty. Recently a portion ‘of the railway between the terminus and the New South “Wales border has been completed, or is in course of completion. I understand that the earthworks are nearly completed, and that the metals are laid. What is required more than anything else at present is either to induce the New .South Wales Government to complete the few miles between Yass Junction and the Federal Capital site, or for the Commonwealth to enter into some arrangement with New South Wales and construct the work itself.

A considerable sum has been spent on a main outfall sewer, which is not only not in use, but, for that reason, has fallen into desuetude. I disagree with those who say we should not go on with the Capital. It was a definite understanding that the Capital would be constructed at Canberra as early as possible. .It is absurd to say that the Commonwealth is not in a position to finance a few millions more. It is easy for the Commonwealth, if it were desired, to get millions upon millions for any purpose required; and, if the Commonwealth needed a loan of £5,000,000 for the Capital to-morrow, it could be secured without difficulty. There is no justification for the unreasonable and unnecessary delay.

We are also informed that it is proposed to carry out very extensive works in the vicinity of the Capital site. That, surely, will be an additional reason why those buildings on the site should be proceeded with. I understand that the main thoroughfares are partly laid out, and that the design of Mr. Griffin is now being given effect to, in some degree. I am informed that Mr. Griffin is in charge of whatever work is in progress. I approve of that idea. It was a great mistake on the part of Mr. King O’Malley - I understand it was he - to do otherwise than go on with Mr. Griffin’s design. That has been a bone of contention, and may be responsible for placing some of the improvements in positions where they should not have been. But these are temporary and insignificant matters. I bc-‘ lieve that all the details have been carefully worked put, and are available. That being so, the Government ‘should bring down in their next Works Estimates a substantial sum to proceed with the erection of all necessary buildings at the Federal Capital site.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Defence Department.

Proposed vote, £284,360.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I desire to ask the Minister for Defence- (‘Senator ‘Pearce) a question submitted to me by a returned soldier. If a man is killed in action, and has been buried in his blanket, is his next of kin charged with the price of the blanket? This may seem an extraordinary query; but I have not yet had a chance of submitting it direct to Senator Pearce.

In connexion with men who have enlisted in Western Australia, and who are no longer fit for active service, or for some service abroad, why has preference in the matter of return to Australia been given to members of the Australian Imperial Force from other States? I have been informed that Western Australian soldiers, who are no longer fit, are not being sent back, and that soldiers from other ‘States are being transported home. The categories referred to are B, 2, B, C2, and C3. A returned soldier who interviewed me was sent from France wounded, and went into hospital in Weymouth. He was there on the 26th February, 1918, and was due for Australia. Between that date and the date of his leaving, namely, 20th June, nine boats left Weymouth with men for Australia. One boat only, which was D7, hospital ship, took a. few Western Australian soldiers; and these were treatment cases. Upon the ship on which this soldier returned, namely, the transport Matitua, there were more than 600 wounded men. They were confined in a very narrow space, and were not allowed to go up on the top deck. They had scarcely any room to walk about and smoke. But on the top deck there were five full-blood horses, a blood mare, and a prize bull. Those animals monopolized the little deck , space which might have been made available for wounded men. The officers on board had their quarters, so had the returning nurses, and rightly so. But the complaint of the returned soldier was that those men, although they had fought in France and had been wounded in the service of their country, were granted inadequate space when all the room properly and reasonably available should have been provided for them, so that they might have a walk and a talk and a smoke. They had to sit on the hatches and snatch a smoke as they could.

Is it the custom to bring out upon our transport ships, with wounded men, fullblood horses, mares, and prize bulls? If there is room for such stock, surely room should be provided for our wounded men to have sufficient recreative space. I am informed, also, that, the food provided on the Matitua was not good, so far as the wounded men were concerned.”

Senator Pearce:

– When did this boat arrive ?

Senator NEEDHAM:

– Some time in August, I believe; and I understand that Western Australia was the first port of call. My soldier informant states, “ The food was rotten. Irish stew, frozen bullock, liver and bacon.” He says that one of the returning wounded men offered £5 to anybody on board who could discover a bit of bacon. No man called for the £5 note. The bacon was not discoverable. He adds, “Frozen tripe - smell offensive.” Then he gives the menu for dinner : “ Stew again, nondescript. Thursday, roast mutton and alleged plum pudding. The same on Sunday. Teatime, bread and rank butter; alternate days, jam and cheese.” I bring this matter before the Minister merely for inquiry, because, if that is the condition of affairs, investigation may be well worth while. Our returned wounded men have undergone the rigours of warfare, and I understand it is the desire of the Government, and of the Department of Defence, to see that they are properly treated. If injustice has been done in this or any other case, I am confident it is not the fault of the Minister. When peace is declared we shall have numbers of ships bringing our men, back. We should prevent any recurrence of these things - that is, if they have occurred.

– That is so, and I say it must have cost something to arrest and detain the men. I was wondering why they were not arrested prior to the last adjournment of Parliament. The evidence had to be in the possession of the Minister, and they were arrested a few days after the adjournment. If action had been taken before the adjournment, I venture to say that the men would not have been detained for so long a period without a trial. I think I will ba in order in referring to the evidence given by one officer of the Defence Department in connexion with the inquiry about the arrest and detention of these men. For the moment I cannot recall his name, but he informed the Royal Commissioner who conducted the inquiry that he was an officer of the Defence. Department and a member of the Australian Imperial Force Intelligence Branch. When questioned by Mr. Mack, one of the counsel appearing for the detained men, he said he had been to Dalton ‘s house - Dalton being one of the internees - and there saw a wooden cross with, upon it; the names of certain men, amongst ‘ them being the names of Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone. When Mr. “Mack, in crossexamination, asked him if he knew the occupations of the internees, he said, “Yes, they are civil servants.” “ How do you know?” asked Mr. Mack. “ I know they are civil servants, because they do not do any work.” When questioned further, and asked what he knew of Robert Emmet, this officer of the Defence Department said that Robert Emmet was killed in a motor car accident last November in Melbourne. When asked what he knew about Wolfe Tone, he informed the Court that Wo”lfe Tone had raised a rebellion in England in 1916. This intelligence officer from the Defence Department called to give evidence about the interned men, gave the Commissioner a new phase of Irish history. When Mr. Mack, following up his cross-examination, asked the witness if he knew that Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone had been dead for over 100 years, he confessed he was not aware of the fact. Now, I want to know from the Minister for Defence why these men were arrested in the first place, and why they were detained on the evidence of an officer of such intelligence as the man I refer to. But I can go on a little further in connexion with this matter. Another witness at the inquiry was Mr. Sainsbury, head of the Criminal Investigation Department of Victoria, who gave evidence about this very formidable, but very aged, Mr. Dalton. He said that in Mr. Dalton ‘s house he discovered a certain book, in which appeared a passage to the effect that the union between England and Ireland was the greatest Wot in English history. When questioned by Mr. Mack, this witness did not know whose words they were, but said they were supposed to be words used by Dalton. He was not aware of the fact that they were the words of William Ewart Gladstone, and not of. Dalton at all.

Now, I hold no brief for any man or woman in this country, whether English,. Irish, Scotch, or Welsh., who breaks its laws ; but I say that if any man has thepower to order the arrest and detention, without trial, of persons of British birth, we are getting back to the time prior to the French Revolution, the time of lettres de- cachet, and when one man in power could do as he liked. I want to say to the Minister - and not in any heat at all - that I followed these” cases very closely, and read all the evidence, and if the men were members of an association, call it what you like - the Irish Republican Brotherhood, the Fenian movement, or any other designation - they were born and reared as subjects of the King, and it would’ have been better if they had been openly arrested, brought before a Judge and jury, and tried by the rules of evidence in open Court, leaving their fate then to be determined by the jury. But that was not done. The men were arrested and detained in custody on the pretext that they were dangerous to the. Empire in time of war. While I admit that it is right that alien subjects, should be taken hold of when discovered, surely some other treatment should be meted out to men of British birth ? I would have referred to the matter earlier in the session were it not for the fact that the subject was sub judice, but since then we have had the report of the Royal Commissioner, and I venture to say that any man who reads the evidence and the final address by counsel (Mr. Mack), with the interjections by the Royal Commissioner, must come to the conclusion that it was remarkable that a Judge, who acted as Royal Commissioner, should so continually interrupt Mr. Mack in his address on behalf of the accused men.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Shannon:

– Order! I think the honorable senator is getting a little wide of the items before the Chair.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I am discussing the Defence Department.

The CHAIRMAN:

– No; the honorable senator ‘is discussing the arrest and trial of. certain people.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– For which the Defence Department was responsible. But I shall not detain the Committee much longer on this subject. I say that while I would not like to think the Judge was biased, it was extraordinary that by his interjections he should have indicated so clearly the drift of his thoughts. I think this procedure was altogether wrong, and that’ the arrested men should have been brought before a Judge and a jury. If they had committed an offence against the laws of the land, what need was there for all this secrecy, and what need was there for the men to be “ cabin’d, cribb’ d, confin’d “ for weeks before an inquiry was held ? Why should they be deprived of their liberty without an open inquiry? I hold no brief for any mau or woman who violates the laws of this country ; but, even in time of war, we should mete o.ut to men of British birth different treatment from that which we accord to men of alien origin. For this reason I ask the Minister for Defence whether, even at this late hour, a new trial cannot be granted to these men before a Judge and a jury of their peers?

Senator REID:
Queensland

.- I desire to say a few words in regard to the supplies of wool which are being made available in Australia for Red Cross purposes. In answer to certain questions, we have been told that the Defence Department is holding up supplies of wool by the Australian mills - supplies which are necessary to meet local requirements. We know perfectly well that the knitting of socks for soldiers has been undertaken to a large extent by old people, who have cheerfully made very great sacrifices in this, connexion, and I think it would be well for the Minister to state precisely what restrictions have been placed on our woollen mills in regard to the supply of wool for Red Cross work.

Recently, by the courtesy of the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce), honorable senators were permitted to inspect the Commonwealth Woollen Mills at Geelong, where cloth is being manufactured of a better quality “than that with which any soldiers in the world, other than Australian, are clothed. Indeed, I do not think that any civilian in the Commonwealth is clothed in better material than is being turned out to-day at the Geelong Factory. Upon this matter I claim to speak with some authority, because I have been in the woollen business myself. Similar classes of material are being sold wholesale in Flinders-lane at 17s. 6d. and 20s. per yard. Yet that very cloth is being produced in the Commonwealth Woollen Mills for-68. 6d., 7s. 6d., and 8s. 6d. per yard. The best-quality cloth manufactured there could not be bought elsewhere for less than 25s. per yard. But for the operations of this factory, we would be paying twice or three times aa much for the cloth in question.

Senator Henderson:

– We are paying it, all the same.

Senator REID:

– We are not. The Factory can make a handsome profit, and can pay the best wages, by selling that cloth at 8s. 6d. per yard. If we were obliged to rely upon private factories to supply the requirements of our troops, we should be compelled to pay ‘three times that amount. The Department deserves credit, and the management and employees -of the Factory also deserve credit, for the fact that our soldiers are being supplied with cloth, the quality of which, cannot be excelled in any part of the world.

Senator Henderson:

– If the honorable senator endeavours to purchase a suit of navy-blue cloth in Melbourne to-day, he will have to pay £8 8s. for it.

Senator REID:

– The same quality material is being manufactured in the Commonwealth Woollen Mills at Geelong for 8s. 6d. per yard.

Senator Henderson:

– I know that.

Senator REID:

– I hope that the people will recognise it.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– I desire to know whether steps are being taken by the Government to so equip our wireless stations that they will be able, not only to receive, but to despatch, long-distance messages 1 Some time ago I read in the newspapers a report to the effect that one of our wireless stations had received messages from a very long distance, but was incapable of replying to them. In regard to the projected construction of naval store at Leichhardt, I desire to know whether the work has been abandoned, or whether it is to be carried out in the immediate future.

Senator BOLTON:
VICTORIA · NAT

-Colonel BOLTON (Victoria) [6.13]. - I wish to bring under the notice of the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) a matter which has been submitted to me in reference to a number of nurses who were sent abroad under British conditions and rates of pay. Now, if any section of the personnel of the Australian Forces in this war is entitled to generous treatment on the part of the authorities, it is that section of devoted women who have so faithfully served our soldiers in the capacity of nurses. I have here a statement by a number of nurses who consider they are suffering injustice, and 1 believe that their case has only to be stated to insure its receiving that prompt and sympathetic attention which it undoubtedly deserves. At the outbreak of the war, a large number of qualified nurses in the Commonwealth volunteered for service abroad - many more than were actually required; but just at that time an urgent cablegram was received from the British authorities intimating that they were very much in need of the services of qualified nurses, and asking if Australia could supply any who were willing to accept duty on the Queen Alexandra Nursing Staff. It was explained that their pay would be. less than that received by other Australian nurses, and that the conditions of their employment would not be so good; but these noble women, regarding’ their duty to their country as of first importance, eagerly volunteered to make the sacrifices demanded of them. As a result, 128 of them volunteered for service on this particular staff in Great Britain in order to help the Imperial Government out of a very serious difficulty. They received no pay or allowances during the voyage from Australia to London ; and, as a matter of fact, the members of the first ‘group who were called upon, travelled Home second class, and received somewhat indifferent treatment on the trip. On their arrival in London, they were met by a medical officer, who told them that they were to receive 15s. per day allowance for quarters until they were detailed for duty. After the first week, this allowance was reduced to 10s. per day, until they were equipped for service. Ten of these women had Australian uniforms, for which each was allowed the sum of £24 15s. The remainder, who did not possess Australian uniforms, were required bo purchase them in London at a cost of from £30 to £40 each. When they arrived in France, however, they were not permitted’ to wear these uniforms, as they were attached to the Queen Alexandra Nursing Staff. Moreover, they did not receive any pay from that body. For many weeks they absolutely lived on the charity of the British nursing staff associated with this particular organization. They write -

On June 9th, we began duty in France, but were not permitted to wear our Australian uniforms, and we received no salary, the authorities there contending that the Australian Government was responsible for us. As we were embarrassed by lank of funds, and no official uniform, and because we were living on the hospitality of the British sisters, we appealed to Colonel- to have our posi tion denned, but nearly two months went by without redress.

It seems to me a serious reflection on the administration of the authorities in the United Kingdom that there should have been no definite understanding in regard to the procedure which should be adopted in connexion with these nurses. They lived on the charity of the British nurses in France for weeks before anybody would recognise them.

Senator Colonel Rowell:

– What date was that? ,

Senator BOLTON:
VICTORIA · NAT

-Colonel BOLTON. - In 1915. Their salary was fixed at £40 a year. The victualling allowance was subsequently discontinued. After the matter was defined, and after these girls had been for many weeks without a penny in their pockets, they received £S 4s. 6d. per month, out of which they had to provide rations. In addition, they received a bonus of £7 10s. per annum. They say that ten months later some of them, when in England, undertook to ascertain the exact nature of the contract they had entered into, through the authorities here, with the Imperial authorities. They applied to an officer in London then in charge of medical services, and he told them that he knew nothing at all about the contract. Yet these nurses were sent by the Federal Government to the Old Country to meet an urgent demand. Then the girls sought the Imperial Matron-in-Chief, but they were unable to see this lady, and eventually they went to Mr. Fisher. After three months’ inquiry, they received a reply, in which it was stated that they could either renew their yearly contract, or obtain a passage to Australia through the Imperial Government. The whole situation seems to have been shrouded in mystery. These girls were drafted off to do certain important duties. They, undertook to make great sacrifices in order to perform an urgent service for the benefit of the Imperial Forces at war. In my opinion, every care should have been taken in the circumstances to see that they’ received, not merely consideration, but generous treatment. At the termination of their contract, they did not automatically become members of the Australian Army Nursing Service. “When their contract with the British authorities terminated, no one was responsible for them, and in the case of one particular nurse an unfortunate situation arose as the result of this. This nurse was taken ill in France a day or two after the termination of her contract. After she arrived in London, it was found that she was suffering from very acute appendicitis. -Will honorable senators believe that this girl had the greatest difficulty in the world in obtaining medical attention ? The British authorities said, “You are discharged. Your contract has terminated, and so we cannot do anything for you.” The Australian authorities said, “ We do not know you at all. You do not belong to the Australian Imperial Force.” Notwithstanding the medical advice that this girl should be operated upon within forty-eight hours, she had the greatest difficulty in getting any attention until finally the British MatroninChief took compassion upon her, and had her taken to a .hospital, where she was operated upon. Such a state of affairs should not have been possible, and it indicates a lamentable lack of proper administration by the military authorities in London.

Another question arising in connexion with the position of these, nurses is that of seniority. It was understood that when they accepted engagements for service with .the Imperial authorities these girls really became members of the Australian Imperial Force Nursing Service, and that on their return their seniority would date from the date of their acceptance by the authorities here for the nursing service required of them abroad.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Shannon:

– The honorable senator may not discuss that matter of seniority. It is not covered by the vote before the Chair.

Senator Lt Colonel BOLTON:

– I am dealing, sir, with the general administration of the Department, so far as the treatment of these girls is concerned.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Thu honorable senator will not be in order in discussing anything bearing upon the treatment of the* nurses referred to, but only the expenditure, so far as they are concerned.

Senator Lt Colonel BOLTON:

– The passages provided for these girls on their return to Australia were very unsatisfactory. They say in their statement -

A proportion of us have for various reasons, financial, ill-health, or family troubles, returned to Australis, receiving no pay or travelling allowance en route.

Senator Henderson:

– What is the honorablesenator’s authority for the information he is giving?

Senator Lt Colonel BOLTON:

.- It is a paper signed by twelve of the nurses concerned. It seems to me that these nurses have good reason to complain that they should be asked to return to Australia without allowance or pay of any description from the time they left England until the time they arrived in Australia. When they arrive here, they find that they are regarded as practically new members of the nursing staff in Australia, junior, even, to all who joined in the year or two years during which they have been away. That is one of the ways in which they feel that they have been unjustly treated.

Senator PEARCE:
Western AustraliaMinister for Defence · NAT

– In dealing with the points which have been raised by honorable senators, I wish, first of all, to refer to a matter mentioned by Senator Needham, which, though it may be new to the honorable senator, is not new to me. The statement to which he referred may only now have been brought under his notice, but it is one of the canards that were circulated at the time of the ‘ conscription referendum campaign. I refer to the statement that soldiers were buried in blankets on the field, and that the value of the blanket in which a soldier was buried was debited to his next of kin. That statement was widely circulated during the last conscription referendum campaign, and for a very obvious purpose. It was inquired into at the time, and was absolutely disproved. Not a single instance can be pointed to in which that was done.

Senator Needham:

– I did not make the assertion.

Senator PEARCE:

– The honorable senator did not comment on it. He simply repeated it, and the answer is most decidedly that it is not the case. With regard to. members of the Australian Imperial Force being returned in disproportionate numbers to the various States, Senator Needham has been informed that fewer men of classes B and 0 are being sent back to “Western Australia than are being sent back to the other States. This is a matter which is not determined by consideration of the States from which the men have come. It is determined by a medical Board, who have no knowledge of the States from which the soldiers come. It is quite .possible that some members of the Medical. Board, dealing with certain cases, may themselves be officers from Western Australia, but- what they have to determine is not whether a soldier appearing before them is a “Western Australian, a Queenslander, or has come from any other State, but whether, in view of the state of his health, he should be returned to Australia. This is determined by the medical, and not by the military, authorities. The men are returned as transport is available, and it may accidentally happen that a disproportionate number of men may be returned to one State by a particular ship, as compared with the number returned to another State. It may happen, also, that the ship available may have some effect in that direction.

Senator Needham:

– Could the nine boats have left within the period I mentioned ?

Senator PEARCE:

– Yes, that is quite possible.

Senator Needham:

– Would that refer to the quality of the food ?

Senator PEARCE:

Senator PEARCE:

– Then, I take it, she became ill while waiting for her steamer. I do not know the case; but, on Senator Bolton’s own showing, the War Office should .have looked after that nurse until she had embarked for Australia. Apparently, the War Office did not do so; but Senator Bolton cannot blame the Australian Imperial Force for that. “With respect to the honorable senator’s question as to seniority, that is determined by the rule of the service, which is, that a man takes, his seniority from the date of his entrance into the Australian Imperial Force. That applies generally to officers, men, and nurses, too; and in the case of anybody coming into the Australian Imperial Force from any other force, we have refused to recognise their seniority in the force from which they have come. That is only just. Otherwise, men in some other service, who have been with that service of their own free will, and have then come into our service, would be going over the heads of men who had enlisted and served throughout with our Force. That would not be right, and that is why we cannot recognise the seniority of the service of the nurses under the British War Office.

Senator Lt Colonel Bolton:

– You have done so in some cases.

Senator PEARCE:

– 1 do not know of any, and can only state that that is the general rule.

Senator Lt.-Colonel O’LOGHLIN (South Australia) [8.26]. - I indorse what the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) has said as to some of the difficulties that occur on transports arising from the inadequate and insufficient refrigerating accommodation on certain of the boats. I remember one boat on which I travelled back from Egypt. That was the Seans Bec, which, I understand, has since gone to the bottom, and that is not very much loss. Continual complaints were made by the men as to the quality of the foodFinally, a Board was appointed, of which I was chairman, to go into the whole matter. We found that the main cause of discontent among the troops was due to the utterly inadequate refrigerating apparatus. It may have served for the original purpose of this vessel, for she ‘ was an old coal boat. She had accommodation for carrying cattle, but very little accommodation for frozen meat.

I indorse what Senator Needham has said, not only with respect to the procedure concerning the Irish internees, but, generally, with regard to the fact that British subjects - Australian-born men - have been interned without knowing the accusation against them, and without receiving fair trial. The Min ister for Defence states, with respect to the Irish internees, that there was. ample reason for their internment, and that the evidence discloses that. But why should they not have been given fair trial before a Judge and jury ? That applies, not only to the Irish internees, but to the members of the Industrial Workers of the World also, and to others arrested and imprisoned without any charge being preferred against them. Last session I brought forward the case of a man named Moyle, who has since been released; but there was great difficulty in securing that result at every stage in the efforts made to do so. Even after the necessary bonds had been provided, the way was far from smooth. Originally, one of the bondsmen was not deemed satisfactory by the police. Then there was a delay of three weeks after the bonds had been accepted, before Moyle was set free. His sister-in-law went to Sydney, and continually had obstacles thrown in her way. She experienced difficulty even in seeing Moyle, and in getting any matters dealt with, with the object of securing his release. Indeed, had she not been a most determined and energetic lady, she might have experienced still more difficulty. With regard to the case of J. M. Scott, to whom I have already referred in the Senate, I shall have nothing further to say just now, since I have received a letter from the Minister in which an inquiry has been promised. I trust that this win not be unduly delayed. Scott knows of no reason why he has been sent to prison. He has written a book which has had wide circulation, and he has displayed considerable knowledge of finance.

The investigations into the Industrial

Workers of the World cases and the Irish Republican Brotherhood have added something to the gaiety of nations. Senator Needham has referred to a few aspects, and any one who reads the trials of the Irish internees will see how’ certain apparently very harmless initial letters or sentences in. letters written by those men, or found in their possession, were construed into some deep laid plot. It is all certainly very amusing. We find, for instance, that a recipe for a severe cold is construed into some formula for a fire-dope; that some harmless sentences and letters are made by the Crown Prosecutor to mean something not apparent to any on© but himself ; and that certain initial letters were construed in such a way as to indicate a very serious plot to upset the British Empire. The proceedings brought to light by this evidence were unique, but in the course of my reading I have come across certain other proceedings as related by a traveller many years ago that are so analogous that I propose to read them. Honorable senators will, I “think, see the analogy between the proceedings in the ancient kingdom and those to which I have just referred. The traveller says - “ In the kingdom of Tribnia, by the natives called Langdon, where I had sojourned some time in my travels, the bulk of the people consist in a manner wholly of discoverers, witnesses, informers, accusers, prosecutors, evidences, swearers, together with their several subservient and subaltern instruments, all under the colours, the conduct, and the pay of Ministers of State and their deputies. The plots, in that kingdom, are usually the workmanship of those persons who desire to raise their own characters of profound politicians, to restore new vigour to a crazy administration, to stifle or divert general discontents, to fill their coffers with forfeitures, and raise or sink the opinion of public credit, as either shall best answer their private advantage. It is first agreed and settled among them what suspected persons shall be accused of a plot; then, effectual care is taken to secure all their letters and papers, and put the owners in chains. These papers are delivered to a set of artists, very dexterous in finding out the mysterious meanings of words, syllables, and letters. For instance, they can discover a closestool to signify a privy council; a flock of geese, a Senate; a lame dog, an invader; the plague, a standing army; a buzzard, a Prime Minister; the gout, a high priest; a- gibbet, a Secretary of State; a chamber-pot, a committee of grandees; a sieve, a court lady; a broom, a revolution; a mouse-trap, an employment; a bottomless pit, a treasury; a sink, a court; a cap and bells, a favorite; ‘a broken reed, a Court of justice; an empty tun, a general; a running sore, the Administration. “ When this method fails, they have two others more effectual, which the learned among them call acrostics and anagrams. First, they can decipher all initial letters into political meanings. Thus N shall signify a plot; B, a regiment of horse; L a fleet at sea. Or, secondly, by transposing the letters of the alphabet in any suspected paper, they can lay open the deepest designs of a discontented party. So, for example, if I should say, in a letter to a friend, ‘Our brother Tom has just got the piles,’ a skilful decipherer would discover that the same letters which compose that sentence may be analyzed into the following words: - “Resist, … a plot is brought home, . . . the tour.’ And this is the anagrammatic method.”

That is the experience of a traveller, Lemuel Gulliver, whose works, I think, are to be found in every library in the world. Although his remarks relate to a kingdom which he visited over 200 years ago, I think they are appropriate to the attitude of the Administration with regard to these internees to-day.

It is interesting to note, in connexion with the Industrial Workers of the World cases and the Irish internees,- that notwithstanding statements we have heard circulated on no less authority than that of the Prime Minister of Australia (Mr. Hughes) that German gold and German influence were rampant throughout this country, not the slightest vestige of anything of the sort has been discovered with regard to these plots. I think that we can claim that our country is free from anything of that sort, and those who make such an accusation ought to be ashamed of themselves.

T want now to ask the Minister for Defence if the Censors have received particular instructions that any remarks which are made with reference to Ireland - and which -are perfectly allowable in relation to every other country of the world - are to be censored. It is perfectly allowable for one to utter patriotic sentiments about people striking a blow for their own country. These sentiments would be applauded if applied to Belgium, Serbia, or Poland, but it appears that if they are applied to Ireland they are bo be censored.

Senator Lt.-Colonel BOLTON (Victoria) [8.37]. - Arising out of the reply of the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce), I can give some information with regard to the representation of the Australian Imperial Force in London, because the twelve nurses concerned assert that General Williams waa in London, so that there must have been some Australian organization there. Then with, regard to the Commonwealth not having any responsibility, it seems to me that the nurses referred to were regarded as members of the Australian Army Nursing Staff, because directly on their return from London they were put on the roster of nurses in the staffs at Melbourne or Sydney, or wherever they landed. Nurses were sent from New Zealand under exactly the same conditions, and when it was found that they were being neglected, a New Zealand officer had the courage and initiative to take upon himself the responsibility of placing them on the staff of the New Zealand Military Forces in London, with the result that they were properly looked after. I think an Australian officer should not have failed to do his duty in this respect, but should have, done something for those girls in such distressful circumstances.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– I invite the attention of the Minister (Senator Pearce) to the vexed question of the dependants of soldiers who are alleged to have deserted. It appears to be the view of the Federal Government that it is the duty of the States to look after such dependants; but, on the other hand, the States claim it is the duty of the Federal Government, and between the two sets of authorities, the dependants are wondering where they stand. It would be wise, therefore, if the Minister could make a statement as to what is to be the ultimate fate of these people. My own opinion is that, as the Federal Government control the affairs of men who enlist, it is also their duty to attend to their dependants. Once a man enlists he is under the control of the Commonwealth Government, and when he reaches England he comes under the control of the Imperial authorities; but if any of these men neglect their duty, why should their wives and children or other dependants be punished ? It is not their fault. The responsibility should be shouldered definitely by some authority.

Senator Senior:

– Try that as a general proposition and see how it would work out.

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I presume the honorable senator means in time of peace:

Senator Senior:

– Right through life. If a man deserts his master, should he be paid?

Senator NEEDHAM:

– I am speaking now of a condition of war. When a man enlists he usually leaves some one in Australia dependent on him, and if he fails in his duty, why should the effect of his neglect be visited upon his dependants? The question is very important. I know that the Victorian Government has decided against accepting this responsibility. I believe Tasmania has done the same, and I am under the impression that in my own State the Government, if they have not . already determined on a course of action, are seriously considering the question. I am anxious, therefore, to know if the Federal Government intend to take the whole responsibility, or who is going to look after the dependants of those Australian soldiers who neglect their duty.

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

– After three months I

Senator PEARCE:

– I do not propose to continue (his dialogue, because when I answer the honorable senator he at once shifts his ground.

As to the other matters which the honorable senator raised, let me quote to him one of his sentences. He asked me to take greater care that the mistakes that are continually occurring shall not happen in the future. The honorable senator has quoted only one mistake made by the Department. He hinted at some other vague case, and I asked him whether the telegram was sent by any official of the Defence Department. His reply was “ No.” The honorable senator cannot hold the Defence Department responsible for a mistake made by an official of some other Department.

Senator O’Keefe:

– Perhaps you can give the explanation now.

Senator PEARCE:

– I cannot, because I know nothing of the circumstances. I only know that the honorable senator, after starting off on. a criticism of the censor, stated that the telegram was not sent by any official connected with the censor, and that the censor, apparently, had nothing to. do with it. The honorable senator is, therefore, not fair to the censor in quoting that as an instance of the mistakes which he says are continually occurring. I have fully explained the one case where a mistake occurred, and have reproved the officer for making it. Precautions have been taken to prevent a repetition.

Senator O’Keefe:

– Has not the Minister received an explanation of the case which I brought up some weeks ago?

Senator PEARCE:

– 1 decline to hold myself responsible for an alleged mistake made by an official of another Department. 1 reminded the honorable senator that, in the other case, I, myself, corrected the mistake as soon as it came under my notice. I could not do more.

Senator O’Keefe:

– You said you would make further inquiries. Now is the opportunity for you to make a statement.

Senator PEARCE:

– So far as I am concerned, that question is closed. I have done my duty, and have taken such action as will, in my opinion, prevent a repetition. I have reproved the officer who misled mc - as he said, unintentionally - but Senator O’Keefe has not proved his allegation that such cases are continually occurring.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

– The Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) has described my references to the dependants of deserting soldiers as having been made in a light and airy fashion. I was serious. The question of dependants of deserting soldiers is, indeed, a serious matter. The Minister asked me, “ How long will it continue ? “ That was not necessary. I knew it could only continue for the duration of the war; but I inquired as to the position of dependants of deserting soldiers to-day. These people are in a worse case than being between the devil and the deep sea. The Federal Government will not give them anything. The State Governments will not shoulder the responsibility. According to the press, the Premier of Victoria (Mr. Lawson) yesterday referred the claims of dependants of a deserting soldier to the Ladies’ Benevolent Society. Consequently, they are to receive a charitable dole. The Minister says these men have deserted. We realize the difference between the position of men who have deserted and of those who are still fighting. But does the fault lie with the wife and children of the deserter? Surely some consideration should be given them. There are people in Australia to day who do not know whom to approach for sustenance. The Minister for Defence has said the question, is still under negotiation between Federal and State authorities. Meanwhile these dependants are suffering. It is the duty of the- Federal Government to provide for their sustenance.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Navy Department.

Proposed vote, £3S6,470.

Senator PRATTEN (New South Wales; [9.21]. - A report has been recently presented to Parliament concerning the administration of naval affairs during the past two or three years. Is that report being printed for circulation amongst members of Parliament? I direct attention to the very grave derelictions of duty referred to in that report. I should like to peruse the document in detail.

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · Western Australia · NAT

– The report has been laid on the table of Parliament, together with the decisions of the Government upon the various recommendations of the Commission. That report will go before the Printing Committee, which body decides whether or not to recommend that it shall be printed. I take it as a matter of course that, with a document of such importance, it will be ordered to be printed, and that copies will shortly be circulated amongst honorable senators.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Divisions 100 to 114 (Department of Trade and Customs), £139,945, and Divisions 115 to 126 (Department of Works and Railways), £177,465, agreed to.

Postmaster-General’s Department.

Proposed vote, £1,275,570.

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

. - Is the Minister representing the Postmaster-General in the Senate aware of the fact that a certain prescription has been sent round to honorable senators signed “ William Webster “ ? I desire to know if this prescription is the product of the Postmaster-General? If so, is ‘the Minister representing the Postmaster-General aware that the prescription was forwarded to members of Parliament in the official envelopes of the Postmaster-General’s Department ? What part of the Estimates before the Committee covers the cost of typing the hot-water prescription, and the cost of the envelopes, and of their distribution? Is this William Webster, poet, philosopher, and so on, the Postma’ster-General? Has an estimate of the cost been obtained with regard to the paper on which the prescription was typed, also of the cost of typing, and of the envelopes, and of their distribution?

Senator RUSSELL:
VicePresident of the Executive Council · Victoria · NAT

– I have no knowledge,, but if opportunity affords later, I shall try to make inquiries.

Senator Needham:

– I hope the Minister is not dismissing this in a light and airy fashion. Can he give the information before the third-reading stage, or by to-morrow ?

Senator RUSSELL:

– I promise to secure the information if possible.

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

– I have made a calculation as to the cost of the envelopes and of the paper on which the typing of the “ prescription “ has been done, and I figure it out at about ls. 3$d. - a cost which, if it has been accurately calculated, is less than that of the time the honorable senator has occupied in dealing with the subject. I am rather inclined to protest against the aspersions cast on the Postmaster-General.

Senator Needham:

– I cast no aspersions.

Senator PRATTEN:

– So far as my experience is concerned, I can say that never have so few complaints been made with regard to the Postal Service - taking everything into consideration ‘ in these times. In connexion with the administration of the Post Office, outside of the Defence Department in war-time, this Department employs the greatest number of persons of any of the Federal Departments; and it has been drawn upon very heavily with respect to the war. A great many of the Post Office employees are in France; many others have been temporarily transferred to other Departments. Despite this, the Post Office is being conducted, comparatively speaking, in a more efficient manner than it was ever conducted before. I am speaking from personal experience. If there is a tele, gram delayed, it appears in “ cap. “ type in the papers. But that sort of “thing goes on all over the world. I do not. like to hear these light and airy remarks concerning the administration of such a great Department.

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

.- I wish to offer a few words of congratulation to the Postmaster-General upon the institute which was opened, I believe, yesterday. It is an institute which is likely to do great good in the Postal Service, by providing an opportunity of training to men to fit themselves for their duties in the Post Office. This should tend towards increasing their efficiency and therefore that of the Department.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed vote, £1,767,985.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– There is an item under the heading, “Under control of Department of Repatriation, repatriation of soldiers, £350,000.” The Committee is entitled to get from the Minister for Repatriation (Senator Millen) a clear and comprehensive statement of the work done in connexion with the repatriation of returned soldiers. It is frequently reported in the daily press that, nothwithstanding the bountiful resources of Australia and the immense sums of money at the disposal of the Repatriation Department, a considerable number of returned soldiers are unable to obtain -useful employment. I do not know to what extent these statements are true or otherwise; but I do think that the Minister should be able to give the Committee definite information as to how the money is being spent. I understand there is a large staff, running into some hundreds, in connexion with the repatriation establishment in Sydney, a similar staff in Brisbane, and presumably an equally large, if not a larger, staff in Melbourne. I do not for a moment imagine that all returned soldiers are employed in endeavouring to secure positions for other returned soldiers, but I believe a substantial number are so employed. I do not profess to have any detailed knowledge of the Department, but I would like to know the number of men who have secured employment through the Department, and how many there are on the books at the present moment. This information would be interesting to the people as well as to our soldiers, who will be encouraged if they know that they will have no difficulty in securing employment on their return.

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

– I should like some information on the item “ Repatriation of Soldiers, £350,000.” This seems a small sum, comparatively speaking, for the extended operations of the Repatriation Department.

Senator Millen:

– That is three months’ Supply.

Senator SENIOR:

– Under the Estimates for the Home and Territories Department, other Departments are charged rent for premises, but. this item does not appear in the Repatriation Department’s expenditure. I note, also, that in connexion with other Departments contingencies represent a substantial sum, but are not included under this heading. We should have a clear idea as to what the Department is spending. I think it is advisable that if one Department acts as the agent for another, the Department that occupies the premises should have the rent charged against it, so that when we are passing a vote we would know that it was the total amount for that particular Department.

Senator Lt.-Colonel BOLTON (Victoria) [9.36]. - In view of the dissatisfaction that exists in several States concerning land settlement for returned soldiers, I think it would be advisable if the Minister for Repatriation (Senator Millen) could say if the Government contemplate taking any action to place this question on a better basis.

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

.- I should like to know what is the actual’ position With regard to the question of supplying homes for soldiers. In my own State there was an arrangement whereby the local Lands Department granted assistance, and the Repatriation Department also helped financially, but I understand that, on account of certain difficulties that have arisen, this practice has been discontinued. Can the Minister say if there is any hope of this housing scheme being entered upon again so far as Queensland and the other States are concerned ?

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

– Then I hope that the next Finance Bill will be a long time coming forward.

I have hurriedly replied to the inquiries of honorable senators, and have referred to the major activities of the Repatriation Department. Before I sit down, may I say a word or two about the Department and the staff. Senator Grant referred to the creation of these new buildings and the employment of big staffs. Does the honorable senator expect that we can run this Department without expenditure?

Senator Grant:

– I do not.

Senator MILLEN:

– Is it possible to run a Department dealing with 39,000 applications without a staff ? I say that it is not, and, what is more, I do not intend to try to do it. It was impossible bo create any system of repatriation without adequate buildings, and without adequate staffs. We have created buildings, and if we have erred at all it has been on the side of insufficiency. If any error has been made it has been in underestimating the task with which we are confronted. Already in the two major offices built here and in Sydney, I can see evidences that we should have been better advised if we had added a little to the space available.

Senator Foll:

– They are pretty well crowded out in Brisbane also.

Senator MILLEN:

– We have not built there yet, but intend to do so. I propose in building in three other States to profit by our experience in Sydney and Melbourne, and to take the risk of putting on a little additional room rather than finding ourselves. crowded when we get to work there.

– All interjections are disorderly, .and should be discontinued by ‘honorable senators when requested to do so. Senator Needham apparently challenged the Chairman to name him, which is disrespectful to the Chair, and conduct that should not be indulged in. Senator Needham having admitted that? it is not for him to lay down the conditions of his withdrawal, which must be unreserved and absolute.

Senator Needham:

Senator Bakhap:

– I will ask the permission of my informant to give his name.

Senator GRANT:

– I do not doubt the accuracy of the statement as it has been repeated by Senator Bakhap; but I do not believe there is very much in’ its origin. The fact that the work of the Department has been fairly successful up to date shows that the pernicious nature of the propaganda must be more fancied than real.

There is an item of £175,000 under the heading “Under control of Department of” the Navy, trading vessels.” Presumably, that is in connexion with the ships purchased some time ago by the Prime Minister (Mr. Hughes). Are those ships still afloat? Are they being used mostly in connexion with the Australian trade, or by the British authorities for war purposes ?

Senator FOLL:
Queensland

.- Senator Bakhap stated that there were people in our midst who were endeavouring to make political capital out of the Repatriation Department, with a view, evidently, of belittling the National Government. Senator Grant immediately stated that he did not believe such statements were being made, and he asked for concrete proof. Senator Grant himself has been guilty of such conduct. While the Select Committee on Intoxicants, of which the honorable senator and myself are members, was pursuing inquiries in one of the capital cities, Senator Grant said to a witness, “Is it not a’ fact that, up to the present time, not one soldier has been repatriated by this Commonwealth National Government?” Those words appear in the printed evidence of the Committee, lt is evident by that question that, in addition to what Senator Bakhap has drawn attention to, there is a tendency on the part of some people in our midst to make political capital by belittling the Department which Senator Millen so ably controls.

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

.- It is a pity Senator Poll has not given the full facts relating to the incident he has quoted. J t is quite possible that I may have asked the question; but tho Department of . Repatriation has not been actively in being for more than, comparatively, a few months, and it is quite likely that at the time the question -was asked very few, if any, men had been repatriated. The idea of making political capital out of it never occurred to me, and I am somewhat surprised that such an impression should have been left on the mind of Senator Foll.

Senator MILLEN:
Minister for Repatriation · New South Wales · NAT

– Senator Grant has urged that owing to the increased cost of living the pension rate should be increased.’ I do not know whether he is aware of (he fact that it would not make any difference to the recipients of pensions whether the amounts were increased or decreased, for tho reason that the Repatriation Department undertakes, to make the income of any recipient of a pension up to a certain figure. If the pension were wiped out altogether the Repatriation Department would merely pa”y more in proportion than at present, so as to bring the amount received by the returned soldier up to the given figure.

Senator Bakhap has urged that an effort be made to secure greater publicity for the Repatriation Department. I appreciate what publicity would mean, not only to my Department, but to the interests of the soldiers themselves. If there is a lack of publicity, however, it is not the fault of the Department. From time to time it has given much fuller information to the press as to what is going on than I have .been able to provide tonight. Yet, if I judge correctly, the state- ments which I have just made were heard by honorable senators then for the first time, despite the fact that I have already given similar information in many places and in many speeches. And I have also given the same information to the press. With regard to the latter, it has been a matter of disappointment that the information has not been considered of sufficient importance by our leading journals to’ call forth from them any editorial comment. The one set of figures which I gave, namely, that the Department had placed 17,000 men satisfactorily in employment, and that there, wore so few remaining on its books, had an obvious public interest. I should have thought that the leading journals of the country would have regarded the information as worthy of some editorial comment.’ That such little notice has been given is not the fault of the Department, but a fact for which the press must take the responsibility. With regard to publicity in Europe - that is among the soldiers - I am glad to say that any deficiency which may have existed there is being steadily overcome. We have had literature sent to the Front, and in a communication I have been informed that General Birdwood had instructed .that the last pamphlet sent was to be issued in the orders of the day to the men under bis command. Judging by the copies I have received of three papers published in connexion with various soldiers’ camps - two in England and one in Egypt - the scheme is getting known; and, may I add, that in those soldiers’ papers there are more complimentary references to. the scheme than have appeared in the Australian press.

Senator GRANT:

– The whole of the ‘ scheme is placed before every .soldier abroad.

Senator MILLEN:

– An endeavour is being made to do that.

Senator Bakhap referred to the trans ports returning to Australia. In connexion with this matter, I want to say that I am having” literature placed on each transport as it touches at Fremantle; and I propose, as soon as I canSecure men. qualified for the. position, to arrange for lecturers to board every troop-ship at Fremantle, and give lectures to the men. They will answer all questions put to them during the voyage of the vessel from fremantle to the eastern port. Honorable senators will agree, however, that before 1 can do this 1 must be quite satisfied that the officers selected have fullknowledge of thesubject, because hundreds of questions will be fired at them from the decks of the transports, and I must have sufficient confidence that theOfficer is armed at all points, otherwise some questions, submitted in all good faith, might lead to misleading answers, and cause dissatisfaction amongst the boys who are returning. I propose to appoint these lecturers as soon as . I can select officers suitable for that purpose.

Senator BOLTON:
VICTORIA · NAT

-Colonel BOLTON (Victoria)[10.33]. - I should like the Minister to make some statement with regard to pensions being brought up to a living wage; and to know if the Government contemplate, in the near future, including the administration of the pensions in theduties of the Repatriation Department? And then with regard to hostels for incapacitated men, will the men receivea pensionas well as be given accommodation ?

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

– Answering the last questionfirst, I may say that themen will be in receipt of a pension of 30s. per week, and they will, of course, obtain accommodation at the hostel. ‘ If they are single men, permanently incapacitated, they will not receive more than the pension of 30s. per week ; but any dependants of incapacitated soldiers will be in receipt of a sustenance allowance. With regard to the administration of pensions, the Committee will remember that some time ago I announced that the Government intended to merge this function into that of the Repatriation Department. Officers of my Department are now conferring with officers of the Treasury as to the bestmeans of bringing thisabout, and when they have submitted the result of their deliberations, I hope it will not be long before we can effect the merging as indicated. I have no hesitation in saying that I should have done this before, but I had a hesitancy, until the gristle had hardened into the bone, about throwing upon my new Departmentany added responsibility.

Senator Grant raised the question of the Commonwealth ships. The amount set down in the ached ale is the amount necessary for their maintenance, and the revenue obtained from their use is paid into the ConsolidatedRevenue.

Senator Grant:

– But the point I raised was whether theships are being used by the CommonwealthGovernment or by the British Government.

Senator MILLEN:

– The Commonwealth vessels are in the same position as vessels privately owned. Theyhave been placed under the control of the British Admiralty.

Proposed vote agreed to. : Division 34 (Refunds of revenue), £150,000, agreed to.

Proposed clause 2 agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without request’; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

Senate adjourned at 10.37 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 16 October 1918, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1918/19181016_senate_7_86/>.

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Senate16 October 1918

PETITION

Entertainments Tax

Senator GRANT:NEW SOUTH WALES

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GRANT:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GRANT:

REPATRIATION

Senator MILLEN:Minister for Repatriation · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator BARNES:VICTORIA

Senator MILLEN:

PAPERS

SHORTAGE OF PAPER

The PRESIDENT:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator GRANT:

The PRESIDENT:

QUESTION

SEVENTH WAR LOAN

Senator NEEDHAM:WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN” IMPERIAL FORCE

Senator NEEDHAM:

Senator PEARCE:Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator PEARCE:

Senator PRATTEN:

Senator PEARCE:

QUESTION

JAPAN

Senator BAKHAP:for Senator Keating

Senator RUSSELL:Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

QUESTION

METALS

Senator BAKHAP:for Senator Keating

Senator MILLEN:NAT

Senator PRATTEN:

Senator MILLEN:

QUESTION

PAPUA

Senator PRATTEN:

Senator RUSSELL:NAT

QUESTION

SHIPPING

Senator MAUGHAN:QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

PAPER SUPPLIES

Senator MAUGHAN:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

RECOGNITION OF GALLANTRY

Senator BAKHAP:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

QUESTION

APPLE EXPORT

Senator BAKHAP:for Senator Keating

Senator RUSSELL:NAT

QUESTION

RABBIT AND RABBIT -SKIN TRADE

Senator PRATTEN:

Senator MILLEN:NAT

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2) 1918-19

Senator MILLEN:New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator GRANT:New South Wales

Senator Earle:

Senator GRANT:

Senator Earle:

Senator GRANT:

Senator PRATTEN:New South Wales

Senator Millen:

Senator PRATTEN:

Senator Millen:

Senator PRATTEN:

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator SENIOR:South Australia

Senator NEEDHAM:Western Australia

Senate
16 October 1918

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator MILLEN:
Minister for Repatriation · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator BARNES:
VICTORIA

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

Senator RUSSELL:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · VICTORIA · NAT

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

Senator MAUGHAN:
QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator BAKHAP:
for Senator Keating

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon T Givens:
QUEENSLAND

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

Senator NEEDHAM:
Western Australia

Senator THOMAS:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Shannon:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator THOMAS:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator THOMAS:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales

Senator MAUGHAN:
Queensland

Senator MILLEN:
New South WalesMinister for Repatriation · NAT

Senator PRATTEN:
New South Wales