Senate
22 February 1972

27th Parliament · 2nd Session



The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. Sir Magnus Cormack) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 3

THE SENATE

The PRESIDENT:

– Honourable senators, you will have noticed that since the rising of the Senate before Christmas there has been a change in the sound system in the chamber. New microphones have been installed on your desks. I have instructed the Usher of the Black Rod to have placed in your boxes a pamphlet indicating how these microphones should be used. I draw your attention to this pamphlet because these are extraordinarily sensitive micro phones and anyone who feels impelled in the heat of debate to thump the desk to emphasise his point will create some problems.

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DEATH OF FORMER SENATOR

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
Minister for Health · New South Wales · LP

– It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death on 7th January of exSenator the Honourable Benjamin Courtice. For 25 years he gave devoted service as a senator to his native State of Queensland and to the people of Australia. As a member of the Australian Labor Party, he was chosen to represent Queensland in the Senate under section 15 of the Constitution by the Parliament of Queensland on 2nd September 1937, following the death of

Senator J. V. MacDonald. He was later elected at the general elections in 1937, 1943, 1949, 1951 and .1955. The distinction with which he served his State, this Parliament and indeed the Commonwealth was a testimony to his enthusiasm, hard work and desire to do his best for his State and for Australia.

Benjamin Courtice was a member of the Senate Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances from 2nd December 1937 to 27th September 1938 and from 28lh November 1940 to 7th July 1943. He also was a member of the Profits Committee from 12th November 1941 to 26th March 1942. Furthermore, he served 2 terms as Temporary Chairman of Committees, from 1941 to 1943 and from 1952 to 1954. His ability in that capacity was to be recognised subsequently in his appointment as Chairman of Committees from September 1943 to November 1946. He also served with distinction as Opposition Whip from 1937 to 1941. The appointment of Senator Courtice as Minister for Trade and Customs on 1st November 1946 came as no surprise to his fellow senators and parliamentary colleagues. He was to hold that portfolio until 1.9th December 1949.

His service to the Parliament was to continue in the same exemplary fashion as a member of the Select Committee on Constitution Alteration (Avoidance of Double Dissolution Deadlocks) Bill 1950 and as a member of a delegation representing the Parliament of the Commonwealth at the first meeting of the Northern Territory Legislative Council in its new Council Chamber on 25th March 1955. He retired on 30th June 1962. The late Senator Court ice’s legacy is one of devotion to service. Not only is his passing mourned in this chamber; it is mourned particularly in Bundaberg where he was born on 28th March 1886 and where he was so closely associated with the sugar industry. Those of us who remain here and who sat with him in this place knew him as a kindly man, a man loyal to his political beliefs and fair to his political opponents, honourable in mind, in deed and in everything he put his will to do. He was a lover of democracy, its parliamentary procedures and its national application. T move:

That the Senate expresses its deep regret at the death of the Honourable Benjamin Courtice, a former senator for the State of Queensland and a former Minister of the Crown, places on record its appreciation of his long and .meritorious public service, and tenders its sincere’ sympathy to the members of his family in their bereavement.

Senator MURPHY:
New South WalesLeader of the Opposition

– On behalf of the Opposition I join with the Leader of the Government in the Senate in the motion he has just put before us. The late Ben Courtice was a man who rose from the ranks of the people to a most distinguished position in this community. He did that because of his qualities of honesty, decency and hard work which earned him a reputation that has come down even to those of us, like myself, who were not present during the period he was a member of this chamber. Some of us here, such as my colleague Senator O’Byrne, knew the late Ben Courtice personally. Senator O’Byrne will be able to testify from his personal knowledge of the late senator, lt is a matter of history that Senator Courtice was a close colleague of the famous Prime Minister Ben Chifley. That alone is sufficient to be a tribute to his qualities as a man and . as an Australian statesman.

In his early career the late Ben Courtice was closely associated with the sugar industry, not only as a farmer but. also as a co-founder with his brother, the late Fred Courtice, of the Bundaberg and District Workers Union of the sugar industry in 1905. He continued that interest in and connection with the sugar industry throughout his life. His long period of public service was conducted with honour and with a reputation for honour. He leaves behind, him a family who may remain proud of the fact that he served with such distinction and that he goes down in the pages of history as one who was well loved and respected for his efforts on behalf of his Party, ‘ on behalf of his colleagues and on behalf of the people of Australia.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
Minister for Air · Western Australia · CP

– On behalf of my colleagues in the Country Party 1 join with the Leader of the Government and the Leader of the Opposition in this chamber in paying tribute to the late Senator Courtice. Those of us who served here with him will endorse everything that has been said by the two leaders. I know that many honourable senators did not have the opportunity to serve with Senator Courtice but they will be fully aware, from the remarks that have been made by the Leader of the Government in the Senate, of the excellent service that he gave to this chamber, to his State and to this country. When I was elected to the Senate in 1958 it was my privilege and pleasure to get to know Senator Courtice and to recognise in him the qualities that earned him his appointment as Chairman of Committees and as Minister for Trade and Customs from 1946 to 1949. I assure those honourable senators who were not acquainted with the late Senator Courtice that he was a credit to both his State and his country. In all political and personal matters he displayed intelligence, integrity and courtesy. I believe that the Labor Party could be truly proud of him. On behalf of my Country Party colleagues I join with the previous speakers in extending to the family of the late Senator Courtice our deepest sympathy on his passing.

Senator GAIR:
Leader of the Australian Democratic Labor Party · Queensland

– My colleagues and I desire to be associated with the motion moved by the Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson). I had the privilege of knowing Ben Courtice for many years, although I never had the privilege of serving with him in the Senate. I knew him within the Labor movement. He was a kindly, soft spoken, retiring and rather reticent gentleman who had very deep and sincere convicitions on many issues. He was a good unionist of the old school. He believed in justice for the working class, but he was very sound in his judgment on union matters and never subscribed to any of the foolhardy practices so frequently seen in the ranks of unionism today. Senator Courtice was an assiduous, earnest type of man who served the people of Queensland in an excellent manner.

It was a great tribute to him to have been selected to carry out the onerous task of administering the Department of Trade and Customs, lt has been stated publicly that he was chosen by his leader because his leader believed that he was a man of scrupulous honesty. That is a great tribute to Senator Courtice, as it would be to any man in public life. His leader believed that he could entrust to Senator Courtice the task of administering that Department without anything irregular taking place. Senator Courtice was highly respected by all sections of the community in Queensland. Although he had reached an age well in excess of three score years and ten there was a great feeling of regret when his death was announced. My colleagues and I sympathise with his bereaved relatives in their great loss.

Senator KEEFFE:
Queensland

– I would like to add a few words to the message of sympathy moved by the Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson) and supported by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Murphy). I speak on behalf of the 4 Queensland Australian Labor Party representatives, all of whom knew Senator Courtice very well. Unfortunately none of us had the privilege of serving with him in this chamber. Senator Courtice was a member of a very old and highly respected family in southern Queensland. He was a man of great integrity, as were those of his family in his generation. All the members of the family that he reared - they are fairly well scattered now throughout the southern part of Queensland - are very highly respected.

Probably one of the greatest shocks that I have had for many years was when I heard an announcement that Senator Courtice had been taken to hospital. This was while I was at Cooktown over the Christmas-New Year period. It was only a matter of a few days, of course, before he passed away. I think we all looked forward to keeping in communication with him because, even though he had left the active political scene, he never failed to keep in touch with those within the Labor movement whom he knew well. Up until a few months ago he would send an annual Christmas card or write the odd letter. Since then his daughter, Mrs Clay, has taken over and she keeps in touch with those of his Labor friends with whom he kept some sort of contact. We will miss him from the political scene. He has served his country well. I join with previous speakers in extending to his family the very sincere sympathy of the Queensland representatives of the Australian Labor Party in this chamber.

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania

– I would like to associate myself with this motion of condolence to the relatives of the late

Benjamin Courtice. Perhaps I am one of the few members of the Senate who actually worked with Senator Courtice during his time as Minister for Trade and Customs. In my association with him I found him to have many good qualities. He was a man of very even temperament, a man who was a good mixer, who was admired and trusted by his colleagues and respected very highly by those who differed with him politically. I think it was a great tribute to the late senator that a newspaper report of the State funeral which was accorded to him stated that representatives of 19 Ministries attended the funeral. That so many of his former colleagues should pay him this mark of respect, being the last one that they could pay him, indicates the affection in which he was held.

It is interesting to note and to put on record that Senator Courtice was one of the old style Australian pioneers who left school at 13 years of age. He worked hard in the sugar mills and became closely associated with the sugar industry. He then realised the things that were, happening between employer and employee - unfortunately they still exist - and he realised also that unless men stood up for their rights, were properly organised and were prepared to stand up as men they would continue to suffer injustice. In forming the Sugar Workers Union, which later became associated with the Australian Workers Union, he made a great contribution to the history of the trade union movement and the political movement of Australia.

He was appointed by the Queensland Government to the Senate. It was during his years in that chamber that he distinguished himself as a very able administrator and a very fine member of the Cabinet. He was also very capable in dealing with representations made to him by people. He would go to very great pains to answer questions and to investigate any problems that were put to him. His duties were carried out in the highest traditions of a Minister occupying such an important portfolio as that of Minister for Trade and Customs. I would like to offer my sincere sympathy to the members of his family - his son, Mr H. B, Courtice, his 3 daughters, Mrs W. D. Clay, Mrs T. Thiele and Mrs

  1. Watts, and his grandchildren and great grandchildren. I extend to them my very sincere sympathy in their sad loss.
Senator BYRNE:
Queensland

– It is perhaps not inappropriate that I should pay my tribute to the late Senator Courtice because after I entered this chamber in 1951 he was for many years my closest personal friend and parliamentary colleague and in those years I had the opportunity of estimating the worth of his character and of enjoying the warmth of his friendship. Over the years, by the sad concourse of circumstances, our political paths may have diverged but our personal paths never diverted. 1 kept in contact” with him during the years of his retirement. Senator Courtice was imbued with very ‘firm principles and great idealism. He often told me of the experience of his own father in the darker days when unemployment was considered to be a personal disgrace rather than a community failure. He set himself out to achieve a situation in which every man would have not only the right to work but also the. opportunity to exercise that right, and he carried those ideals through a long career in community and public life.

The late Senator Courtice was, from memory, a foundation member of the Queensland Cane Growers Association. To him was due a great deal of the credit for the importance of the industry which rested so much for its success upon the worth of that organisation. He was a gentle man yet a man of strong and firm character. He made a great contribution to public life in Australia. He embellished a family record that was already one of great’ worth, for the Courtice family has produced in its time very many distinguished men. lt has produced one Rhodes scholar, a very distinguished scientist and men’ of commerce. Senator Courtice, in his time and his way, added lustre to the record of that family. I had the deep and abiding pleasure of enjoying the friendship of not only the late Senator Courtice but also his wife and family. I pass on to those of his family who survive him my very warm regards, and my deep personal sympathy at a loss which is deep for them but only slightly less deep for his friends, who recall him with admiration and respect.

Question resolved in the affirmative, honourable senators standing in their places.

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MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
Minister for Health · New South Wales · LP

Mr President, I seek leave to make a statement on behalf of the Prime Minister relating to ministerial arrangements.

The PRESIDENT:

– Is leave granted? There being no objection, leave is granted.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

– I wish to inform the Senate that, following the retirement of Mr Barnes from the Ministry, Mr Peacock has been appointed Minister for External Territories and Mr Katter has been appointed Minister for the Army. 1 take this opportunity to place on record the Prime Minister’s very real appreciation of Mr Barnes’ services to the Ministry during his years in office.

I also wish to inform the Senate that the Minister for the Navy, Dr Mackay, left Australia on 12th February as the leader of an official parliamentary delegation to Japan and Korea and to attend the opening of a SEATO exercise in the Philippines. He is expected to return to Australia on 6th March. During his absence, the Minister for Customs and Excise, Mr Chipp, will be Acting Minister for the Navy.

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PETITIONS

Education

Senator MURPHY:

– I present the following petition:

To the Honourable the President and members of the Senate in Parliament assembled: The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of Australia respectfully sheweth:

That the Australian Education Council’s report on the needs of government education services has established serious deficiencies in education, the most important areas being a severe shortage of teachers,inadequate accommodation, and, as a result, oversized classes.

That extra Federal finance is urgently required to save the government school system.

That while the needs of the government schools are being neglected, large amounts of public money is being given, in various and numerous grants, to private schools.

Your petitioners most humbly pray that the Senate in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to make emergency Federal finance available to the States for State school education, and divert the large sums of public money being spent on private schools, to the government school system for which the government is truly responsible.

And your petitioners as in duty bound will ever pray.

Petition received and read.

Education

Senator DAVIDSON:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I present the following petition:

To the Honourable the President and Members of the Senate in Parliament assembled:

The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of Australia respectfully sheweth:

That the Australian Education Council’s report on the needs of government education services has established serious deficiencies in education, the most important areas being a severe shortage of teachers, inadequate accommodation, and, as a result, oversized classes.

That extra Federal finance is urgently required to save the government school system.

That while the needs of the government schools are being neglected, large amounts of public money is being given, in various and numerous grants, to private schools.

Your petitioners most humbly pray that the Senate and the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to make emergency Federal finance available to the States for State school education and divert the large sums of public money being spent on private schools, to the government school system for which the government is truly responsible.

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Petition received.

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NOT ICE OF MOTION

Senator MURPHY:
Leader of the Opposition · N.S.W.

– I give notice that on the next day of sitting I shall move:

That there be referred to the Standing Committee on Primary and Secondary Industry and Trade the following matter for inquiry and report:

The determination of prices which affect the structure of costs and prices in the Australian economy and, in particular, of prices which are determined by foreign corporations or trading or financial corporations formed within the limits of the Commonwealth, or by corporations which enjoy advantages under Commonwealth tariff, revenue, subsidy or other laws, or by corporations which have contracts with the Commonwealth.

That the Committee recommend any legislative or administrative measures which should be taken by the Commonwealth to prevent unjustifiable price increases and to protect Australia from excessive inflation.

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QUESTION

MEDICAL BENEFITS

Senator MURPHY:

– I address a ques tion to the Leader of the Government in his capacity as Minister for Health. Is it a fact that the failure of general practitioners to observe the common fee is putting an undue burden on the sick and causing a further breakdown of the Government’s health scheme? What has the Minister done about it and what is the result of his efforts?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

– The first part of the question posed by the Leader of the Opposition suggests that an added burden has been placed on the sick and aged as a result of difficulties that have emerged from the application of the common fee. That is a general statement to which I would not like to ascribe in the context in which it was made. I believe that no medical practitioner, whether he is a general practitioner or specialist, ever shirks his responsibility for the care of the sick. Although I do not think Senator Murphy meant to imply that, this inference could be drawn from his remark. Having cleared that point, I acknowledge that for the period ended 30th September there was a deterioration in the application of the common fee by general practitioners for surgery visits and home visits.

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Especially in New South Wales.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

– ] will develop that, wilh particular reference to New South Wales. 1 issued a Press statement on this matter. The application of the common fee in States other than New South Wales was in the area of 70 per cent to 80 per cent. Indeed, in one State it was even higher than that. But in New South Wales there was a significant drop in the application by the general practitioners of the common fee for surgery visits and home visits. Senator Murphy, the Leader of the Opposition, asked me what I have done about this. The first point to be made is that the Government, in administering medical services under the National Health Act, always has had discussions and made plans wilh the federal body of the Australian Medical Association. I have had a series of conferences with the federal body. Those conferences took place between the rising of the Parliament, the release of my statement and the present time. I have had two series of formal conferences with the federal body and I have had a series of discussions with the Federal President of the AMA and his Secretary-General. Those discussions are continuing.

It is proper for me to say at this time that there has not been a successful resolution of the problem of the application by the medical profession, particularly doctors in New South Wales, of the common fee. I am answering this question broadly because various groups within the medical profession in New South Wales have expressed certain views about this matter. I am sure everybody will appreciate that a government, when negotiating with an industry, a professional group or any other organisation over the application of an Act of Parliament, must meet some body to hear its views. As far as I have been able to do so in the circumstances I have restricted my discussions to the federal body, although I feel bound to say that at the last formal meeting I had with the federal body the President of the New South Wales division and his Secretary-General also were present and they expressed their views on the special problem. At this point of time the problem of the application of the common fee - notably in New South Wales where some 1.6 branches out of 27 are not charging the common fee - has not been resolved. The matter is still under discussion between me, as the Minister, and the federal body of the AMA.

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QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Senator WILLESEE:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I remind the Minister for Civil Aviation that twice last year I. asked him about the application by TransAustralia Airlines for permission to operate on the Perth-Darwin air route. On 8th December the Minister said that he expected to make an announcement before Christmas. In view of his failure to announce the decision on TAA’s application, will he now inform the Senate of the reasons for delaying the decision and also when an announcement finally can be expected?

Senator COTTON:
Minister for Civil Aviation · NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– The matter is still under consideration by the Government, in the genera] context of the operation of the 2 airlines policy. I think the Senate will be aware that there has been quite a steadying of the growth of the number of people being carried by air over the last 12 months. This is particularly so in Western Australia.. The whole matter is under review and I cannot yet tell the honourable senator when the decision will be made.

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QUESTION

COLOUR TELEVISION

Senator LAUCKE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Postmaster-General. Following the announcement that colour television will be available in Australia in 1975 and in view of the fact that many country centres in areas such as Eyre Peninsula in South Australia have been seeking standard television services for a considerable time without avail, will every consideration be given to providing standard television reception in those areas before the introduction of colour television?

Senator GREENWOOD:
Attorney-General · VICTORIA · LP

– The announcement of the decision of the Government to introduce colour television as from March 1975 is consistent with the indication that it had previously given that 3 years’ notice would be given of any such decision. Of course, the 3-year period of notice is to enable the necessary technical work to be done. But it should be understood that, whilst preparations are being undertaken by those who are interested in providing facilities for colour television services, reception of standard television services will continue and the Department will be maintaining and extending its range of services along the lines that Senator Laucke has mentioned. I am quite sure that the consideration that he has sought is a consideration which will be given by the PostmasterGeneral’s Department.

Fill AIRCRAFT

Senator BROWN:
VICTORIA

– I direct my question to the Minister for Air. ls the F111C to be equipped with a laser beam delivery system for what is described as stand-off bombing? If the answer to my question is in the affirmative, I ask: Was this system incorporated in the original design of the aircraft ordered by the Government in 1963? If not, is it (a) one of the numerous modifications to the aircraft since 1968, or (b) is it an additional modification which will increase the cost of the aircraft over and above the last estimated cost of $US344m?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– This is a matter which is under consideration at the present time. No submission has been made on it. The Department is studying the matter. Certain modifications would be required. At this stage, I cannot say if or when this item will be ordered. I will need to do some investigation on that point. I will let the honourable senator have an answer later.

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QUESTION

EYRE HIGHWAY

Senator DAVIDSON:

– I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Shipping and Transport: Has the Minister read reports of the proposal by the Government of South Australia to increase its contribution to the cost of the sealing of the Eyre Highway in South Australia? I ask the Minister whether the Commonwealth Government has received a request from the South Australian Government on this matter? If go, will the Minister say what the Government’s response will be?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– I am well aware of the honourable senator’s interest, as indeed I am of the interest of, I think, nearly every South Australian senator, in this matter. I did read not long ago that the South Australian Premier and Government had decided to increase South Australia’s contribution. My understanding is that that case is before the Commonwealth now for its view and that the Commonwealth hopes to be able to announce its decision before very long.

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QUESTION

INTRODUCTION OF METRIC SYSTEM

Senator KEEFFE:

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Treasurer. Is the Minister aware that certain manufacturers transferring to the system of metric measures are using this change as a means to reduce the quantities and increase the prices of their products? Does the Minister agree that such movements will add to the cost of living? If not, what action does the Government intend to take to eliminate such practices at a time of high inflation and severe economic depression?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

– I am not aware of this situation. The honourable senator has made the statement that certain manufacturers in fact are using the conversion to the metric system to reduce quantities and to increase prices-

Senator Keeffe:

– If T give the Minister the name of one manufacturer, will he take the matter up?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONIf the honourable senator has some case which he believes reveals this situation and if he gives the information to me, I will have it properly processed. I will certainly send the question, in the generality in which the honourable senator has posed it, to the Treasurer for comment.

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QUESTION

BRISBANE AIRPORT

Senator MILLINER:
QUEENSLAND

– Will the Minister for Civil Aviation indicate whether the runways at Brisbane Airport are to be extended? If so, is it contemplated that the extension will mean the demolition of homes in the Cribb Island area? If such is the case will the Minister agree to meet representatives of the people living in the Cribb Island area at an early date to discuss details of the future of this community?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– I think that quite some time ago - the honourable senator will be aware of this - the Prime Minister and the Premier of Queensland spoke of the decision to extend and develop Brisbane Airport by relocating the runway system further north. This matter has been the subject of a detailed study by the Department of Civil Aviation and Queensland State Government departments in association with the town planning functions of the Brisbane City Council. The details of this study are fairly well known in Brisbane. I understand that there have been some protest meetings in the area which the honourable senator mentioned and which I think is called ‘Cribb Island’. I believe that the honourable senator was there and that he undertook to raise the matter with me. He has done this in the Senate. I shall certainly look into the matter and if I feel that I can usefully help the people in that area by seeing them I shall certainly try to do so.

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QUESTION

ASSISTANCE FOR THE ARTS

Senator HANNAN:
VICTORIA

– I direct a question to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts on a matter which may have escaped his attention. I ask him whether it is a fact that a Commonwealth instrumentality has recently made a grant of $40,000 to the Williamson/Edgley Theatres Ltd to bring to Australia the Royal Winnipeg Ballet? If so - and the belief is widely held that it is so - does the Minister know that members of my union, Actors’ Equity Association of Australia, are gravely disturbed that such a sum would be made available in these circumstances to an entrepreneur when the local Queensland, Victorian and Western Australian ballet companies received only $31,000? I ask the Minister whether the man Edgley named in this firm is the same man who has specialised in bringing to Australia brilliant theatrical troupes, circuses and ballets, etc., from the Soviet Union, many of whose members refused to join Actors’ Equity.

The PRESIDENT:

– -Order! The honourable senator is giving information and not asking a question. During his absence at the United Nations I have clamped down on honourable senators who make speeches during question time. I had better bring the honourable senator up to date.

Senator HANNAN:

– I shall continue my quest for information. Is the Minister aware that there is a proposal by these people to bring the Red Army Choir to Australia? Will the Minister give an assurance that taxpayers’ funds will not be made available to a private entrepreneur to bring Soviet artists to Australia - no matter how brilliant - until all members of my union are in full employment?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– A number of matters arise out of Senator Hannan’s question and I do not have the informal ion to give him a ready answer. I am sure he will appreciate that these matters do require some investigation. I assure him that I will have the matter referred to the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts and I hope that a speedy response can be given to the honourable senator about the particular matters which are concerning him and members of his union.

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QUESTION

PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Senator O’BYRNE:

Mr President, I assure you that my question will be brief and to the point, as I, like Senator Hannan, have been at the United Nations. I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs the following question: In view of the historic decision taken at the 26th session of the United Nations General Assembly to admit the People’s Republic of China and now the momentous visit by

President Nixon to the People’s Republic of China for the purpose of normalising relations between the 2 countries-

The PRESIDENT:

– Order! The honourable senator heard me address Senator Hannan. He should just ask his question.

Senator O’BYRNE:

– I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether he will inform the Senate what the Australian Government proposes rb do to normalise relations with a country of 800 million people which has been and which will inevitably become an even more valuable and important diplomatic and trading nation as far as Australia is concerned.

Senator WRIGHT:
Minister for Works · TASMANIA · LP

– It will be within the honourable senator’s knowledge, and it has been made public, that the Government has been in conversation with representatives of the People’s Republic of China in several European capitals, advancing the cause of normalising relations between our 2 countries. Details of these matters, of course, will not be given, as the disclosure of details does not help such delicate diplomatic exchanges.

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QUESTION

RURAL FINANCE

Senator CARRICK:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– My question, which is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Primary Industry, relates to the need for long term, low interest finance for the rural community. Is it a fact that the Government has requested . the Bureau of Agricultural Economics to undertake an intensive investigation of the adequacy of credit facilities for rural producers? If this is a fact, what is the progress of this investigation and when is the information likely to become available?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– On a number of occasions in this place I have emphasised the importance the Government places on credit for the rural industry. Because of the importance the. Government places on this matter, the Minister for Primary Industry some time ago set up a committee in the Bureau of. Agricultural Economics to investigate the need for credit facilities, particularly in the sheep industry. That committee still has to make its report, but I understand that it is carrying out a very thorough investigation of the credit facilities available in this country and the demand for credit by producers. I understand that already it has carried out a very thorough investigation of the credit facilities available to producers overseas and how they measure up against the facilities available here in Australia. As I said, the Government is well aware of this need, and when the report comes to hand the Government will examine it as soon as possible.

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QUESTION

HEALTH INSURANCE

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– My question, which is directed to the Minister for Health, follows the one directed to him by Senator Murphy. Will the Minister, in any future discussions which might be continuing between the Government and the Australian Medical Association regarding the Government’s concern at the failure of an overwhelming number of general practitioners in New South Wales to observe the most common fee, draw to the attention of the Australian Medical Association the statement made in the Senate on 7th May last by his predecessor. Senator Greenwood, that ‘assurances have been obtained which should mean stability in the main general practitioner service fees for at least 2 years’? Will the Minister give an undertaking that in any future such discussions he will insist, in view of the excessive reserves held by the health insurance companies, that there be no increases in contributions to the funds to offset the cost of any increase in health benefit refunds which might be being considered to meet the non-observance of the most common fee by general practitioners?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

First of all, the honourable senator, talking in terms of the New South Wales situation, refers to ‘the overwhelming non-observance’ of the common fee for a surgery visit. Lest anybody get any wrong ideas about what he means by that, I point out that the figures I produced and the Press statement I released indicated that the figure for observance of the common, fee in New South Wales had dropped to about S3 per cent from about 74 per. cent for the previous 3-month period. Now . let , me turn to the honourable senator’s reference to the hospital and medical benefit funds. As he and, I am sure, most would know, a . conscious effort is being made, pursuant to a decision of the Government, to give added coverage to subscribers and to make a significant impact on the reserves of funds. The honourable senator’s proposition is predicated on the old idea that the reserves of funds should be of the order of 9 months’ contributions plus, but there has now been a significant move away from that as a matter of government policy in a conscious effort to bring the reserves of funds down to something like 3 months’ contributions. The honourable senator then put forward what he thought the Government might try to do to solve the problem. I thank him for the information he offered as a solution.

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I was not offering a solution. We just suspect the Government.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

– I do not think the honourable senator really should suspect the Government in relation to this issue. We are trying to find a solution in the interests of the thousands, and probably the millions, of people in the funds. The concept of the common fee is a magnificent one. I, and the Government, are hoping that we can find a solution which will preserve that magnificent concept in the interests of the people of Australia.

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QUESTION

AVIATION

Senator POYSER:
VICTORIA

– Has the attention of the Minister for Civil Aviation been directed to recent statements which indicate that certain major international airlines have under consideration the phasing out of the jumbo jet because that aircraft is proving to be operationally uneconomical? If it has, can the Minister advise whether Qantas Airways Ltd is likely to take such action? What loss would be incurred by Qantas if the jumbo jet were phased out for economic reasons?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– This is news to me. It is in the area of fantasy, I would say.

page 12

QUESTION

HEALTH

Senator POKE:
TASMANIA

– Can the Minister for Health inform the Senate how much money the Federal Government has outlaid in advertising and explaining to the public the complex operation of the national health scheme and the means by which people with the greatest need, and to whom the scheme purports to be directed, can best avail themselves of the help that is available to them?

Does the Minister agree that the very complexity of the scheme’s operation is in fact a fortunate deterrent to its use by many people - fortunate from the Government’s point of view, certainly not from the point of view of the very poor, the very sick and the aged, the people who most need the help afforded by the scheme?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONI am not clear whether the honourable senator was referring to a particular Act or to the generality of the National Health Act. If he was referring to that Act, I will attempt to get the information he sought in relation to costs. If he was referring to a particular Act and if he will let me know the Act to which he was referring, I will seek to get that information also in relation to expenditure in publicising the National Health Act or the Act that he had in mind. As we all know, there have been subsequent Acts which have a bearing on the whole question of national health. I disregard the pontifications at the end of the question.

page 12

QUESTION

SHIPPING

Senator DEVITT:
TASMANIA

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Shipping and Transport ask his colleague to request the management of the Australian Coastal Shipping Commission to come clean immediately with the Australian public on proposals for re-organisation of the Australian National Line’s operations, thereby removing the serious doubts in business and community circles as to the future intentions of the Line which are currently clouded in mystery and uncertainty?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– I do not know what the honourable senator meant by the words come clean’, but I gather that he has a query about the future operations of the Australian National Line in regard to Tasmania. I shall direct that part of the question to the Minister for Snipping and Transport.

page 12

QUESTION

SUPERSONIC AIRCRAFT

Senator MULVIHILL:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Minister for Civil Aviation allay the genuine fears felt by many Australians about the environmental effects that will follow the introduction of supersonic air transport in this country? Has he taken cognisance of the tests conducted in’ the United Kingdom which resulted in that nation vetoing the use of supersonic aircraft?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– 1 know of the honourable senator’s concern about matters ecological and environmental, and about conservation matters. I. think that because of that concern he probably has overemphasised some of. the effects mentioned. The Department of Civil Aviation has always been concerned to make perfectly sure that all these operations arc conducted both wisely and safely in the public interest. To that end it has asked the Australian Academy of Science, which 1 think all would agree is a body of eminent, capable and detached people, to conduct a study of this matter. The result of that study should be in my hands in the next few weeks. When it is 1 certainly shall ensure that the honourable senator gets the full details of ir. 1 doubt very much the claims made by people about the effects of supersonic transport. I do not think it is quite correct to say that the United Kingdom has banned the use of supersonic aircraft. In my understanding that is not the case.

page 13

QUESTION

QANTAS AIRWAYS LTD

Senator FITZGERALD:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– My question is directed to the Minister for Civil Aviation. In view of the fact that money has been made available by the Commonwealth to save workers’ jobs throughout Australia, will the Minister intervene to stop the dismissal, announced during the past few days, of employees of Qantas Airways Ltd?-

Senator COTTON:
LP

– 1 have been trying to trace the author of the statement that employees of Qantas Airways Ltd will be dismissed. That statement appears to me at present to be based on a rumour of which I have no official knowledge. I think I should make the observation that the responsibility of the Government is to do what it has done, that is, to see that Qantas, our designated international flag carrier, has access to the market for carrying people to and from Australia. It has access to about half of that market. Having got that access, Qantas has to run its business in a commercial sense. The Government does not interfere in that. It does not direct Qantas to hire people or to do things in that direction, nor does it intervene to prevent

Qantas from making commercial judgments in its own business, which decisions Qantas should take to run its business properly.

page 13

QUESTION

WINE INDUSTRY

Senator DRURY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Is the Minister representing the Minister for Primary Industry aware that the Australian Wine Board has lost confidence in the industry’s future since the SOc a gallon tax was introduced? Is the Minister aware also that during the current vintage grape growers, who were actively encouraged by the Government to enter primary industry, will be in jeopardy because of this year’s record vintage, which will mean that, many grape growers will not be able to sell their crops, and that the situation will become much more critical if the present wine tax legislation is not changed? Will the Minister ask the Government to take action to assist the grape growers who are affected by this situation?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– 1 am aware that all sections of the wine industry have been united and extremely vocal in making protests about the wine tax, but I understand that there are quite a few indications that some companies are quite buoyant and that some firms have been buying into the wine industry. But the general river co-operatives, particularly at Berri, Loxton and Renmark, seem optimistic although they have been told of thi disastrous effects of the excise. At the Australian Agricultural Council meeting which was held in Perth recently and was attended by Ministers of Agriculture a report was made about this matter. At the present time investigations are being made by an independent committee of inquiry and that committee will report to the Government shortly. I am sure that the Government then will be fully informed of what is actually happening to co-operatives in the river areas and will make a decision one way or the other on the report.

page 13

QUESTION

NATIONAL SERVICE

Senator WRIEDT:
TASMANIA

– I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service: Are any national servicemen currently serving in Papua New Guinea? If not, have any national servicemen been told that they will see service in. the Territory before long? If so, for what purpose, and for what specific reason are they to be sent to the Territory?

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– I shall obtain for the honourable senator any information that the Minister has in response to his question as early as possible.

page 14

QUESTION

UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS

Senator BISHOP:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services or to the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service. It refers to a reported statement by the Minister for Social Services issued during the currency of the State Electricity Commission dispute that unemployed members of any union involved in that Victorian dispute, irrespective of State domicile or usual industry occupation, could be declared ineligible for unemployment benefit. Has the Government any intention of applying such a criterion to such unemployed persons in future, whether they might be involved in the motor car industry or otherwise? Can the Minister say whether anybody was temporarily denied unemployment benefit because of this statement?

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The criteria that were referred to are criteria that have prevailed in this field defining the eligibility for unemployment benefit since the time of the Chifley Government.

page 14

QUESTION

WOOL

Senator YOUNG:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I direct my question to the Minister representing the Minister for Primary Industry. With the recently improved wool prices, can the Minister say how much of the wool bought in by the Australian Wool Commission has been sold and what amount has been sold at a profit? Is the Minister aware that many people who previously were critical of the operations of the Australian Wool Commission now admit that it has been of immense value to the Australian wool industry?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– I cannot say exactly how much wool was bought in by the Australian Wool Commission but there have been statements, some of them without foundation, that the Commission bought up to 800,000-odd bales. The Commission bought very heavily between July and December of last year and in some cases it bought as high as about 45 per cent of the offering. At the recent Sydney and Adelaide sales something like 50,000 bales were offered and the Commission bought in 33 bales altogether. I think this is a very marked difference from the earlier sales. At the present time I understand that the Commission’s stocks have dropped to 570,000 bales from the reserve price operations and 130,000 bales purchased as a result of the price averaging plan. Those are the only firm figures I have at this stage.

page 14

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Senator James McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– My question is directed to the Minister for Civil Aviation. In answer to an earlier question asked by Senator Willesee the Minister stated that the question of TransAustralia Airlines and the Perth-Darwin service was receiving the Government’s consideration in the general framework of the 2-airline policy. I ask: Does the Government, as suggested by sections of the Press, propose to make an announcement in the near future concerning the future operation of the 2-airline domestic aviation policy? In view of the importance of this matter and the complexity of the questions involved, will the Government give consideration to producing a White Paper on the subject in the interests of ensuring an informed public debate?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The whole matter is under review at the present time. I shall give consideration to the proposition about the production of a White Paper.

page 14

QUESTION

HEALTH

Senator JESSOP:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I wish to ask a question of the Minister for Health. Will the Minister inform me whether there is a limit to the accumulated revenue allowable to health funds registered under the National Health Act? If so, what happens when the amount exceeds that limit? Will he also inform me whether it is possible for a particular fund to transfer any excess from one State branch to another?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONI am grateful to the honourable senator for asking me that question. I did allude to one aspect of this matter m response to a question asked earlier of me. The first part of the question asked by Senator Jessop is whether there is a limit on the accumulated revenue allowable to health funds. I say in response to that: Yes, it has been decided that what are known as the free reserves of registered organisations should be set at a level equivalent to 3 months’ contribution income for the larger funds. That is the point I made earlier in reply to a question asked by Senator Douglas McClelland. With the smaller funds, more flexibility is allowed and the free reserves may be permitted to exceed that level in certain appropriate circumstances. Sometimes it may he wise to allow them to go beyond the 3 months concept.

The second part of the honourable senator’s question concerns what happens when the amount exceeds the limit. The contribution, rates which were set at the commencement of the restricted medical benefits scheme in 1970 and the national benefits scheme in 1971 were designed to achieve gradually the desired levels of reserves. Consequently the free reserves of individual funds at the present time are in the process of being accumulated or depleted as the case may be to reach the appropriate levels. In the future, contribution rates generally will be approved on the basis that they are sufficient to maintain free reserves at a level of 3 months’ contribution income, depending on the size of the fund.

The third part of the honourable senator’s question, which requires a more lengthy answer, relates to whether it is possible for a particular fund to transfer any excess from one State branch to another. Under the National Health Act there are 2 categories of funds, namely, the restricted membership funds and what are known as the other funds. The first category - the restricted membership funds - generally comprise the smaller industrialtype organisation with employees in a number of States. These funds are registered to operate in more than one State, but the administration and the financial system of each of these funds is centralised in one State. The question of transferring reserves from one State to another therefore does not arise. The second category generally comprises the larger funds such as the Blue Cross and friendly society funds. The registration of these funds is on the basis of completely separate funds being maintained in respect of each State in which registration has been granted. The transfer of any of a fund’s reserves from one State to another is not permitted.

The PRESIDENT:

– Questions of that nature should be placed on the notice paper in the future, Senator Jessop.

page 15

QUESTION

NATIONAL FITNESS

Senator MCAULIFFE:
QUEENSLAND

– My question is addressed to the Minister for Health. Is it a fact that a survey conducted in 1971 into the physical fitness of State secondary school students revealed such a poor standard of fitness that the Department of Health withheld publication of the results? Is it also a fact that the information obtained showed that 75 per cent of the State high schools in Australia do not have gymnasiums or suitable indoor facilities for physical education and that this has significantly and detrimentally affected physical education programmes? As it is now felt that the need for gymnasiums is as great as the need for libraries and science blocks, will the Minister make Commonwealth funds available to provide these facilities?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

If I am proved to be wrong I will correct myself subsequently, but I understand that the honourable senator’s question was in the first instance in reference to an examination which was conducted by the Commonwealth Council for National Fitness. The report on that examination has not been produced, as far as I. am aware.. I am not aware of it being withheld’. If that is not the situation I shall discover what the true position is, but that is my understanding of it. The second part of the question, which was built around the first part of the question, relates to the equipment which is provided in the educational systems of the States. The honourable senator has suggested that because of a lack of appropriate equipment the physical education of children is being affected. The Minister for Education and Science may wish to respond to the question, but in my view it is clearly a matter for State government instrumentalities through their own education systems. However, I shall refer the honourable senator’s question to the Commonwealth Minister for Education and Science.

page 16

QUESTION

ABORIGINAL LAND RIGHTS

Senator GIETZELT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the AttorneyGeneral aware that indigenous Australians - probably the greatest number to visit the Canberra region in the last century - are demonstrating for land rights outside the Parliament today? Is it a fact that the Commonwealth Police or the Australian News and Information Bureau had movie cameras photographing the whole proceedings? If so, who gave instructions for this to be done? Is it Federal Government policy to use the camera to record on film all those who participate in such public gatherings? Is this not a form of intimidation and a denial of the right of free assembly?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– I am unaware, I think, of all the matters to which the honourable senator has referred, except that for approximately 2 or 3 weeks there has been a group of Aboriginals on the lawn fronting Parliament House. As to the matters raised by the honourable senator, I shall endeavour to get the information for him. He must appreciate that within the Australian Capital Territory members of the Australian Capital Territory Police Force, for whom the Minister for the Interior is responsible, may be the persons with respect to whom he is seeking the information. As to whether the photographing of persons who are engaged in demonstrations is or is not an invasion of privacy, I must disagree with any imputation that he makes. I should think that the ability of newspaper photographers to take photographs is never regarded as an invasion of the privacy of persons who are being photographed and I should think that the honourable senator would not have it argued that persons who are demonstrating are to be a singularly privileged group in the community.

page 16

QUESTION

MAGISTRATE FOR THE NORTHERN TERRITORY

Senator McLAREN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– My question is addressed to the Attorney-General. On 2nd November I asked a series of questions relating to the appointment of an extra magistrate for the Northern Territory. On 9th- December the Minister advised me that this matter was under examination by his Department. Has his Department completed its examination and, if so, what were the findings?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– My Department has not completed its examination. An officer of my Department is about to go to the Northern Territory- I cannot say precisely when - with a view to making an onthespot investigation. There has been some examination of the figures and records and it certainly indicates that there has been a transference of the weight of business from some areas in the Northern Territory to other areas. It is felt - and I concur in the approach which has been made to me by my Department - that this warrants an onthespot investigation. I can assure the honourable senator that this matter is being attended to.

page 16

QUESTION

ABORIGINAL LAND RIGHTS

Senator KEEFFE:

– My question is addressed to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts and Minister in Charge of Tourist Activities. In view of the fact that Aboriginals now occupying some of their own land in front of Parliament House have conducted their land rights campaign with great dignity and credit to their people, will the Minister persuade the Government to make available to them a suitable building in Canberra which will serve as a headquarters for their embassy and for the Aboriginals’ and Islanders’ campaign for land rights and other matters?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– I think there is a great deal in the question which Senator Keeffe has asked to which he cannot be expecting that the Government or I would respond. The fact that there has been a group of Aboriginals outside Parliament House for some period is a well known fact, but if they are purporting to sit upon land, as the honourable senator says, which is land to which they are entitled, in my view this weakens the case which is being made out by Aboriginals in other parts of Australia for rights over certain land with which traditionally they have had a long association. That cannot be said to be the case here in the Australian Capital Territory. Having said that, may I suggest to the honourable senator that if he wants an answer to the particular questions that are concerning him they must be framed in a different way from that in which they were framed this afternoon.

page 17

QUESTION

DECENTRALISATION

Senator PRIMMER:
VICTORIA

– 1 direct my question to the Minister representing the Minister for National Development. In view of the high costs of telephone charges to decentralised industries, can the Minister give the reason why the PostmasterGeneral’s Department was not represented on the Commonwealth-State committee on decentralisation? Can the Parliament expect that all the studies prepared for that committee will be released at an early date? If not, why not?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– All I can really do in this circumstance is to direct the question to the responsible Minister who, as the honourable senator knows, is in the other place. I know that a study on decentralisation involving the Commonwealth and the States has taken place. One can be quite sure that the views of the PostmasterGeneral’s Department on this matter would have been taken into account by the people concerned. One cannot say more, except that the answer will be provided to the honourable senator by the Minister.

page 17

QUESTION

NATIONAL SERVICE

Senator MURPHY:

– I ask the AttorneyGeneral whether he will table in this place For the perusal of all honourable senators and, if the Senate agrees, for incorporation in Hansard, a copy of the statement made by him in Canberra on 10th February in which he made comments in regard to Mr Barry Johnston, a person who was charged with breaching the National Service Act, which charge had not then been disposed of?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– I will not table in the Senate the statement which I mad; but if I am asked what I said I shall inform the Senate of what I said.

page 17

QUESTION

NATIONAL SERVICE

Senator MURPHY:

– I put a further question to the Attorney-General. Will he state to the Senate now or tomorrow, if he is able to, the terms of the comments that he made in regard to that person on that day?

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– I am quite prepared, Mr President, to state to the Senate, in response to Senator Murphy’s question, what I said on the day in question.

I have the text of what 1 said because it was published by way pf a statement. 1 said:

The Labor Party should, say where it stands in respect of the refusal of its candidate for Hotham (Mr b. Johnston)1 to appear before the Court to answer a charge of failing to obey his call-up for national service.

Mr Johnston failed to appear before the District Court in Melbourne on 7th February. A warrant has been issued for his arrest and he is being sought by both Commonwealth and State police.

It is deplorable for any parliamentary candidate to adopt such a contemptuous attitude for lawful processes and deliberately to create a situation where the Court issues a warrant for his arrest.

Even if the Labor Party disagrees with the policy of the Act its parliamentary members and its candidates, like all citizens, have an obligation to observe and uphold the law. Moreover, it is unfair to those who accept their national service responsibilities for the Labor Party to aid and support those who will neither accept their lawful obligations nor submit to the penalties for noncompliance.

The Federal Labor Member Dr Cass is reported to have said that Mr Johnston has the full support of the ALP on State and Federal levels. Such a statement requires Mr Whitlam (as the ALP Federal Leader) and Mr Crawford (as the State Chairman of the ALP) to indicate to the people of Australia whether Dr Cass expresses ALP policy.

Mr Whitlam and Mr Crawford have a clear duty to repudiate Mr Johnston and to disown his course of conduct. Failure to do so is to give support to those who defy the law and the ALP, as a Party seeking office, should unambiguously show whether or not it encourages lawlessness.

It should immediately cancel Mr Johnston’s endorsement and condemn those of its members who support any unlawful activities of the Draft Resisters Union.

page 17

QUESTION

SUPERSONIC AIRCRAFT

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Has the Minister for Civil Aviation seen a report in a British newspaper, the Guardian’, that Australia is the first country reported to have offered a sonic boom corridor, from Perth to Sydney, for flights by the British-French Concorde? Is this report correct? If a corridor has not been offered for supersonic flights, has any corridor route been offered by Australia for the Concorde to fly in at subsonic speed?

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The report is not correct. The assumptions are not correct. No offers of any kind have been made for supersonic transports to fly at supersonic speed. This matter is one, as I said earlier in reply to a question by Senator Mulvihill, for study by the Academy of Science. The Guardian’ report referred to by many people is not a correct report.

page 18

QUESTION

QUARANTINE LAWS

Senator MULVIHILL:

– Is the Minister for Health satisfied that all hospital medical superintendents are fully aware of Australia’s quarantine laws, mindful of the action of Dr J. A. Forbes, superintendent of Melbourne’s Fairfield Hospital for Infectious Diseases, who wrongly advised Mrs Teresa Spencer that she could claim vaccination exemption?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

I am not aware of whether all medical superintendents of all hospitals know the provisions of the National Health Act or, to narrow it down, the schedules to it. Tt would be beyond my capacity to know that. I feel bound to point out that from time to time during my reasonably short tenure as Minister for Health I have had brought to my attention cases where certain people have been led to believe that some of their ailments or treatment come within the schedule for fund purposes. When we receive cases like that we naturally follow them down and try to clear the air in relation to any misunderstandings that occur. I think the best thing for Senator Mulvihill to do is to let me look at the particular case. We will go to the source, find out how it happened and see whether we can, by our goodwill and help, ensure that it does not happen again.

Fill AIRCRAFT

Senator BROWN:

– I address my question to the Minister for Air. Do I correctly interpret the Minister’s answer to my earlier question to mean that the Government has determined that the FI 1 1C will be equipped with the delivery system I referred to? Is it not a fact that the laser beam delivery system of stand-off bombing has been designed specifically for the delivery of atomic bombs?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– I said earlier to the honourable senator that the RAAF has been carrying out an examination of the laser weapon. We do this as a normal procedure with all new equipment that comes onto the market and which could be of use to us. At present the Department is evaluating the matter. Whether we take this equipment will be determined later on. The honourable senator asked me whether this would require modification of the aircraft. Certain equipment is to go into the FI 1 1 which is not provided for in our Fills at. the present time. I say this in regard to nuclear weapons: Certain modifications must be made and certain equipment must be added to our Fill aircraft for them to carry nuclear bombs. That equipment has not been added to our aircraft. We do not intend to have a nuclear weapons capacity in our aircraft. As to when a decision was made to look at the question of laser beam equipment, J said that I would need to examine the papers that are in the Department and I would let the honourable senator have a further reply.

Senator Brown:

– I will put the question on notice.

page 18

QUESTION

PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Senator O’BYRNE:

– I refer to my previous question asked of the Minister representing the Minister for External Affairs, Is it not true that last year the Prime Minister, Mr McMahon, stated publicly that the dialogue between representatives of the People’s Republic of China and Australia had been broken off? Can it be taken from Senator Wrights answer to my question that the dialogue has been resumed? If so, where has the resumption of that dialogue been publicised in the Australian Press?

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– My recollection is that the Prime Minister indicated that the first overtures for such dialogue were without result of any positive kind, but that was not tantamount to saying that the objective of conducting conversation to achieve a normalisation between our 2 countries would be discontinued. As the honourable senator will understand, these matters occur at different times and on different occasions. All I want the honourable senator to know is that the conversations have been occurring in quite recent times and certainly since the statement! by the Prime Minister.

page 19

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Senator WRIEDT:

– My question is directed to the Minister for Air. Did a committee of inquiry recently investigate allegations of mistreatment of a Launceston Royal Australian Air Force trainee? If so, what are the committee’s findings and when will they be tabled in the Parliament?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– On hearing of this occurrence through the Press, I set up an inquiry into the matter. I have the report before me at the present time and I am hoping that I will be able to make a statement to the Senate later this week.

page 19

QUESTION

RHODESIA

Senator MURPHY:

– My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Will the Government emulate the fine example of the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr Marshall, who has sent a personal message to Mr Ian Smith, the head of the racist, illegal minority regime in Rhodesia, expressing concern at the detention of the former Prime Minister, Mr Garfield Todd, and his daughter without formal charges being laid against them?

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– One hears with appreciation the laudatory reference by the Leader of the Opposition to the new Prime Minister of New Zealand whom we wish the utmost success in his new high office. With regard to the situation in Rhodesia where, as the Senate will know, the recently negotiated proposals between the Government of Great Britain and Rhodesia are being considered and examined by the Pearce Commission, it would be quite inappropriate in our view for the Australian Government to intervene in any matters associated with that experience.

Fill AIRCRAFT

Senator BISHOP:

– My question is directed to the Minister for Air and it concerns the Fill aircraft. What is the total sum Australia will now pay for the Fill aircraft? What will be the amount for storage which has been charged for the aircraft pending their modification? I also ask the Minister: Is it a fact that the Government is now considering an increase in the number of these aircraft that it will purchase?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
CP

– The total cost as from 16th December 1971 when the Australian Government decided to continue the Fill programme is $US344m. The honourable senator has shown an interest in the matter of storage over a long period and has asked a number of questions on it. I think that my reply has always been that it is a matter of consultation between the Governments of the United States of America and Australia and their air forces. The honourable senator will recall that, just before the Parliament rose at the end of the last session, the Deputy Secretary of the United States Department of Defence, Mr Packard, came to Australia with departmental officers of the United States Air Force. The Minister for Defence and I and officials from our departments had discussions with him on this matter. The honourable senator will recall that a figure of $US6.3m had been mentioned as the possible charge for storage. After negotiations, it was decided that the cost to Australia of the storage of these aircraft would be reduced from $US6.3m to $US266,000. That will be the cost to Australia of the storage.

In the last part of the honourable senator’s question, he asked whether we were seeking further Fill aircraft. In our joint statement issued on 16th December last, the Minister for Defence and I made the point that the Royal Australian Air Force required a reconnaissance capability and that this was to be considered. Investigations were not complete and the RAAF was not in a position to make a recommendation to the Government at the time. The investigations would embrace the feasibility of Australian participation in the development and manufacture of reconnaissance packs for the Fill. There are a number of ways in which we may overcome this deficiency in reconnaissance capability. One way is to put a pack on the FU J or possibly on the F4E. But the Department is still studying this matter and the newspaper comment today that Australia is to get additional Fi l l aircraft is just comment.

page 19

QUESTION

RHODESIA

Senator WHEELDON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I wish to direct a further question to the Leader of the Government in the Senate. My question arises from the answer which was shortly’ given by Senator Wright to the question asked by Senator Murphy in which Senator Wright said that il was the view of the Australian Government that no action should be taken by the Australian Government on behalf of Mr Garfield Todd and Miss Judith Todd. As the Minister’s reply to my earlier question on the same subject was that I should put my question on notice, I ask: Does Senator Wright represent the Government’s view when he says that the Australian Government believes that no action should be taken? if he does is there therefore any point in leaving my question on the notice paper?

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:

That would be a judgment that the honourable senator himself would need to make. I told him to put his question on notice. Senator Wright, representing the Foreign Minister, gave an answer to the question asked by Senator Murphy.

page 20

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE

page 20

RIVERINA TELEVISION LTD

(Question No. 1031) Senator DOUGLAS MCCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice:

Television ‘Ltd with shares and on what terms, and, in particular, whether any person or company has any option to purchase the Iwo shares in Elwood Pry Ltd.

page 21

TOWNSVILLE: FIRING RANGE

(Question No. 1483) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Army, upon notice:

Has the Army spent $856,000 building a firing range in the Upper Ross River area of Townsville.

Has construction of the range considerably reduced real estate values in the area, and have many complaints been forwarded to the Minister regarding this matter.

Is the firing range likely to be a permanent institution, or is there any possibility of it being relocated in a less populated area in the near future.

page 21

SINGAPORE ARMED FORCES

(Question No. 1575) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

Will troops from Singapore be trained in Australia; if so, what amount in rent will be received anually from that country towards covering the cost of housing and barracks occupied by such troops.

page 21

OVERSEAS INVESTMENT

(Question No. 1615)

Senator POKE:

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

  1. Is the Prime Minister aware of the statement by Mr Anthony, on 8th November 1971, when he discussed the question of whether it was possible to find ‘ways of marshalling the savings of Australian people’ so that they would have the confidence and opportunity to invest in the ownership of their own industries.
  2. Has the Government allowed a take-over by foreign interests of a great part of Australia’s natural resources and industries.
  3. Do the majority of Australians desire the Government to legislate to prevent the take-over of Australian resources and industry.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONThe Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. Yes.
  2. and (3) The Government’s policy on overseas investment in Australia, including the desirability of using legislation to define the conditions under which overseas investment is acceptable to Australia, was set out in a statement made by the former Prime Minister to the House of Representatives on 16th September 1969.

page 22

VIETNAM

(Question No. 1748)

Senator BROWN:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. How many Australian servicemen served In South Vietnam between the commencement of Australian involvement there and 30th November 1971.
  2. How many of these servicemen were (a) members of the permanent forces and (b) national servicemen.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Minister for Defence has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. A total of 46,852 Australian servicemen served in Vietnam between the commencement of Australian involvement there and 30th November 1971.
  2. 29,428 were members of the permanent forces and 17,424 were national servicemen.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

Average earnings were $2,454 in 1961-62 and $3,900 in 1969-70. Tax payable on taxable incomes of those amounts was $296.80 or 12.1 per cent in 1961-62, and $738.41 or 18.9 per cent in 1969-70. If the taxpayer’s only deductions for income tax purposes were those allowable for the maintenance of a spouse and two children, then the tax payable would have been £175.70 or 7.2 per cent in 1961-62, and $525.61 or 13.5 per cent in 1969-70. In this particular case the results are much as suggested by the honourable senator, but it is obvious that the level of deductions has a considerable effect on the calculations.

The proceeds of the personal income tax, along with the proceeds of other taxes levied by the Commonwealth, are paid into the Consolidated Revenue Fund. These general revenues of the Commonwealth arc used in meeting the Commonwealth’s overall financial commitments. It is, therefore, not possible to say what part of the increase in personal income tax collections was used to finance expenditures on specific items.

page 22

PUBLIC SERVANTS: TRAVEL

(Question No. 990) Senator TURNBULL asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

How many, officers in each Commonwealth Department travelled abroad in each of the last 3 years and what was the total cost ‘to each Department in each year for such travel.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONThe Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

Information requested by the honourable senator as supplied by Departments is set out in the following table:

page 23

TAXATION

(Question No. 1151) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

Has personal tax on the average wage increased from 7.3 per cent in 1962 to about 14 per cent in 1970; if so, what percentage of this almost 100 per cent increase in personal tax is directly or indirectly attributable to Australia’s involvement in the Vietnam war.

page 23

COMMONWEALTH ADVERTISING COUNCIL

(Question No. 1209) Senator DOUGLAS MCCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

The Council’s constitution provides that it shall consist of not more than eleven members, each of whom shall be a principal of an. advertising agency which participates in the planning, originating or placing of Commonwealth advertising. The Council at present consists of ten members.

Five members are elected biennially on tha votes of agencies which, during the preceding 2 years, have participated in the planning, originating or production of Commonwealth advertising.

The other five members represent agencies rendering placing/ charging services to the Commonwealth. They hold membership for the duration of their appointment by the Commonwealth in this capacity.

Precise information regarding agency ownership is not readily available. The present membership of the Commonwealth Advertising Council is believed to represent a near even balance of Australian-owned and foreign-owned agencies.

page 23

COMMONWEALTH ADVERTISING

(Question No. 1300)

Senator KANE:
NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

  1. Why is the bulk of Commonwealth advertising in Australia, and that of Government instrumentalities, handled by advertising agencies which are wholly foreign-owned, when there are more Australian-owned resident agencies than foreign-owned.
  2. Is membership of the Commonwealth Advertising Council monopolised by persons who are heads of wholly foreign-owned agencies.

Senator GREENWOOD- The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has furnished the following reply:

  1. The Commonwealth Advertising Council has advised that, during the year ended 30th June 1971, approximately 72 per cent of disbursements to agencies in respect of advertising placed by Commonwealth departments through the Council organisation went to wholly Australian-owned agencies.

A high proportion of the advertising released in Australia by statutory authorities of the Commonwealth is not placed through the Council organisation and there is no central record of disbursements to advertising agencies which provide services for such authorities.

  1. No. See answer to Question 1209.
Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for National Development has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. There is no provision for compensation payment on cancellation or surrender of permits ox licences under Australian petroleum legislation.
  2. and (3) The production licences granted to Esso-B.H.P. are for a term of 21 years. The licence will be renewed for a term of 21 years, subject 10 such conditions as the Designated Authority thinks fit and specifies, if there has been compliance with the conditions to which the licence is subject and with the provisions of the legislation. Renewals other than the first renewal are at the discretion of the Designated Authority but the term of such a renewal cannot exceed 21 years.
  3. No.
  4. No. As to offshore production titles - see (3) above. Hie tenure of onshore production titles varies between the Stales and Territories and is as follows:
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

I am not in a position to provide information about the business or taxation affairs of a particular company. I can, however, indicate the general policy that applies to Australian investment overseas of the kind referred to in the question, and also the general taxation position regarding income derived from such investment.

Proposals for investment overseas by Australian residents and Australian-resident companies usually require approval under the Banking (Foreign Exchange) Regulations. Proposals for direct investment involving a significant measure of Australian managerial participation in the oversens enterprise and the export of managerial or technical skills are readily approved. Approval is also readily given for all types of investment which promote Australian exports or protect existing Australian investments abroad. Although proposals for investment overseas must be considered on a case-by-case basis, for most practical purposes Australian restrictions on capital outflow are limited to portfolio and certain other investments of a purely financial kind. In the normal course, approvals given in respect of direct investments overseas are conditional upon net earnings from the investment of funds remitted from Australia being transferred promptly to Australia unless their reinvestment overseas is authorised.

In accordance with the foregoing policy, Australian companies have been establishing enterprises in many countries overseas, particularly in New Zealand, South-East Asia and the Pacific, but also in the United Kingdom, the United States and elsewhere. In general the Government does not seek to deter Australian firms from expanding their operations overseas through direct investment in other countries. The annual amount of Australian direct investment in companies overseas has risen steadily from $13m in 1963-64 to $146m in 1969-70. In recent years a portion of this investment has indirectly been financed from abroad rather than by investment of Australian funds.

The Government believes that such investment is in Australia’s interests. Direct investment accompanied by exports of technical know-how and managerial skills which give the Australian enterprise a role in the conduct of an overseas venture is an important means by which Australia can contribute to development and growth of other countries. This is particularly true of countries in the Pacific and South-East Asian region. Apart from that, such investment is of importance in promoting Australia’s own commercial and other interests, and in this connection the Government fully recognises the national benefits that can accrue from Australian companies extending their activities on an international scale.

I might add that, in the case of direct investments overseas which promote Australian exports, special assistance is provided by the Government through the overseas investment insurance scheme administered by the Export Payments Insurance Corporation.

So far as the honourable senator’s question about the taxation position is concerned, under the general provisions of the Australian income tax law a company which is a resident of Australia is liable to income lax on income derived directly or indirectly from all sources whether in or out of Australia. However, income derived by a resident from sources out of Australia is exempt from Australian income tax if that income is liable to tax in the country in which it is derived. Of the countries specifically referred to in the question, the terms of the double tax agreement between Australia and the Republic of Singapore may be relevant in determining liability to Australian tax in the case of income having a source in Singapore.

A company which is not a resident of Australia is liable to Australian tax only on income which is derived directly or indirectly from sources in Australia. Income derived by a non-resident from sources wholly out of Australia is exempt from Australiantax.

page 23

OIL AND PETROL

(Question No. 1315) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Minister for National Development, upon notice:

page 24

ASIAN PACIFIC INTERNATIONAL PTY LTD

(Question No. 1316) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

page 25

COMMONWEALTH CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION COMMISSION

(Question No. 1367)

Senator JAMES McCLELLAND:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is the Minister aware of the recent statements by the National Director of the Australian Council of Employers’ Federation (Mr G. Polites) that the Conciliation and Arbitration Act should be completely re-written?
  2. Did Mr Polites state that we have reached a point where the Act is as much a psychological thing as a reality and that it is just not working?
  3. Did Mr Polites also accuse the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission of ineptitude in handling some cases by quoting examples of the Commission actually causing strikes by refusing to listen to submissions by employers and unions
  4. Will the Government pay due regard to Mr Polites’ criticism of the performance of the Com monwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission, in the event that the Conciliation and Arbitration Act is amended,

Senator WRIGHT- The Minister for Labour and National Service has supplied the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. to (3) It is my understanding that the Executive Director ofthe Australian Council of Employers’ Federations, Mr G. Polites, has on a number of occasions advocated changes to the Conciliation and Arbitration Act, some of which would no doubt require substantial re-writing of the Act. It is also my understanding Mr Polites has criticised some decisions of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission.
  2. In connection with the Government’s review of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act, on which I made a statement to Parliament on 7th December 1971, attention was paid to a wide range of views as expressed by various persons and organisations including the views of the major trade union and employer bodies which I consulted in a National Tripartite Conference.

page 25

PUBLIC SERVICE: DISMISSALS

(Question No. 1384)

Senator KEEFFE:

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

  1. Did the Prime Minister and his predecessor both state, on several occasions, that Government economy measures would not result in the retrenchment of Commonwealth Public Servants, and that such action would, in fact, aggravate the unemployment situation.
  2. Have these statements now been repudiated by the dismissal of employees of the Commonwealth Department of Works at Townsville.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

– The Prime Minister has provided the following answer:

  1. and (2) I have been informed that no record can be found of any statements having been made along the lines you have mentioned.

page 25

UNIVERSITIES

(Question No. 1416)

Senator KANE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice: (!) Is the Minister aware of the statement by Professor J. Auchmuty, Chairman of the Australian Vice-Chancellors’ Committee, reported in the press of 28th September 1971, that a significant amount of student union fees collected by universities are being used for semi-political, non-university purposes.

  1. Are Commonwealth funds paid to university student unions on behalf of the holders of Commonwealth scholarships; if so, will the Minister take steps to have the Joint Committee of Public Accounts investigate the use of public moneys for such non-academic purposes.

Senator WRIGHT - The Minister for Education and Science has provided the following answer to tthe honourable senator’s question:

  1. Yes.
  2. The benefits paid under the Commonwealth University Scholarship Scheme include all compulsory fees, comprising tuition fees and other statutory fees levied by the universities. These fees include student union fees and are paid direct to the universities on behalf of each student who holds a Commonwealth University Scholarship.

Student union fees are collected by the universities from all students, not only those who hold scholarships. They are made available through the normal administrative processes of the universities to the student associations. If conditions are to be (imposed on the use of these funds, then it is a matter for the universites to determine what the conditions should be.

The Joint Committee on Public Accounts is empowered to investigate matters referred to it by either House. It is for the Committee to decide whether the issues raised should be the subject of an inquiry.

page 26

RAILWAY LOANS

(Question No. 1466)

Senator WILLESEE:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. What funds have been borrowed from the Commonwealth by each of the States for the purpose of expanding their respective railways systems.
  2. What is the current rate of interest paid on these loans and what are their terms.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. and (2) The following table sets out loans by the Commonwealth to the States between 1st July 1951 and 30th June 1971 for railway projects, together with details of the rates of interest and terms of repayment.

page 26

DIPLOMATIC SERVICE

(Question No. 1550)

Senator KANE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Has the Minister any knowledge of an allegation that on 17th February 1971 Mr V. E. Tulayev, Second Secretary of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics Embassy in Canberra, led a party of men to a home in Auburn, Sydney, and sought, by great psychological pressure, to persuade a defector, Dr Soloviev, to return to the Soviet Union.
  2. Do Soviet diplomatic personnel require Government permission to travel beyond a 40 mile radius of Canberra.
  3. Did Mr Tulayev seek permission to travel to Sydney in February this year; if so, what reason was given for this visit.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has furnished the following reply:

  1. 1 am aware of, but not in a position to confirm the accuracy of the allegation. However, officers of the Department of Foreign Affairs satisfied themselves before Dr Soloviev left Aus- tralia that it was his personal decision that he should return to the Soviet Union. He could have remained in Australia if that had been his choice.
  2. Yes.
  3. Yes. He is not required to state reasons for travel.

page 27

TAXATION: SHELTERED WORKSHOPS

(Question No. 1553)

Senator WRIEDT:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. Is the Treasurer aware that sheltered workshops are subject to the same sales tax provisions upon goods which they produce as are alter manufacturers; if so, is he also aware that retailers who purchase goods from sheltered workshops are able to make up to 100 per cent profit.
  2. Will the Treasurer give consideration to exempting from sales tax the products of sheltered workshops, so as to allow the workshops an increase in funds which may be used for the ultimate benefit of patients.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

– The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. Sheltered workshops conducted by public benevolent institutions are entitled to exemption from sales tax on goods which they purchase or manufacture for their own use; they are not exempt from tax on goods which they purchase or make for sale. I have no information about retailers’ profit margins on goods purchased from sheltered workshops.
  2. In accordance with the Government’s practice of bringing together for consideration at Budget time requests received during the year for new or extended taxation concessions, I will arrange for this mailer to be listed for consideration when the 1972-73 Budget is being prepared.

page 27

CAMBODIA

(Question No. 1562)

Senator PRIMMER:

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

  1. Will the Prime Minister, while overseas, discuss with the United States the possibility of sending Australian Army advisers to Cambodia.
  2. Have preliminary, talks on this matter already occurred between the United’ States, New Zealand and Australian Governments.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONThe Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. I refer the honourable Senator to the reply by the Acting Prime Minister to a question without notice by the Leader of the Opposition on 10th November 1971 (Hansard, House of Representatives, pages 3221-3222), to my reply to a question without notice by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition on 23rd November 1971 (Hansard, House of Representatives, pages 3454-3453). and to the statement on the training of Vietnamese and Cambodians in Vietnam made by the Minister for Defence on 9th December 1971 (Hansard, House of Representatives, pages 4477-4480). (2) See answer to question (1).

page 27

CAMBODIA

(Question No. 1568)

Senator GIETZELT:

asked the Minister representing the Prime . Minister, upon notice:

  1. Was a request made 6 months ago by the United States Government for the sending of Australian troops to Cambodia, and was it considered by the Government’s advisers and not brought before Cabinet for discussion.
  2. Are reports correct that the Prime Minister was not informed of this request until he was ready lo leave on his present overseas visit.
  3. Did Cabinet discuss this request only on 2nd November 1971.
  4. Does the Government believe that its advisers should withhold such vital information from the Prime Minister, the Minister for Defence, the Minister for the Army, the Cabinet, the Government and the Parliament. Does the Parliament have no say in such an important matter involving the use of Australian forces in another threatre of war in South-East Asia.
  5. Will the Prime Minister give an assurance that the bureaucracy is not running the country, and that Parliament is still the authoritative institution charged wilh the management of the nation’s affairs.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question

I refer the honourable senator to the reply by the Acting Prime Minister to a question without notice by the Leader of the Opposition oil 10th November 1971 (Mansard, House of Representatives, pages 3221-3222), to my reply lo a question without notice by me Deputy ‘Leader of the Opposition on 23rd November 1971 (Hansard, House of Representatives, pages 3454-3455), and to the statement on the training of Vietnamese and Cambodians in Vietnam made by the Minister for Defence’ on 9th December 1971 (Hansard, House of Representatives, pages 4477-4480).

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP; NCP from May 1975

-BROCKMAN - The

Minister for Supply has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. Records have always been maintained of movements of files and films at the Weapons Research Establishment but those pertaining to the film and copy of the film in question were destroyed some years ago.

    1. Return of files and films issued to authorised persons and sections within the Establishment is not normally insisted upon unless they are required for use elsewhere or by other persons.

page 27

SECURITY

(Question No. 1579) Senator CAVANAGH asked the Minister representing the Minister for Supply, upon notice:

page 28

BRITISH IMMIGRATION LAW

(Question No. 1592) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

What arrangements have been made between the Prime Minister’s Department and British authorities, following the enactment of the new British Immigration Bill, to clarify the status of Australian citizens, who visit Britain, vis-a-vis the nationals of member countries of the European Economic Community who are accorded special privileges in regard to entry to Britain.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSONThe Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable Senator’s question:

This matter has been the subject of discussions between the Australian High Commission in London and the appropriate British governmental authorities. The new British Immigration Bill received the Royal Assent on 28th October 1971. It will not come into force until a date still to be determined. It lays down the conditions for entry to Britain. It does not accord special privileges to citizens of member countries of the European Economic Communities. Sections 48 to SI of the Treaty of Rome deal only with the conditions for taking certain categories of employment in other countries of the E.E.C. It will not be necessary for the Immigration Act to be amended to give effect to these sections. The position with regard to comparisons between Australian citizens and citizens of the European Economic Community who visit Britain will be as follows:

Australian citizens not subject to controls on their entry to Britain will be those

born in the United Kingdom;

with at least one parent born in the United Kingdom;

who have lived in the United Kingdom free of immigration control and who have not been away for longer than 2 years;

women married to a United Kingdom born citizen or to a man whose father was a United Kingdom born citizen; and

women married to Australian citizens who had at least one parent born in the United Kingdom.

All those not subject to controls will have the right to live, work and settle in the United Kingdom.

Others, including Australian citizens and nationals of Members States of the European Economic Community, are subject to controls on their entry to Britain. Commonwealth citizens wishing to take up permanent employment will require a work permit for a specific job for an initial period of 12 months with the exception of fully qualified doctors and dentists for whom there are special arrangements. This could be extended annually for up to 4 years after which controls will normally cease. Nationals of member states of tthe European Economic Community will be permitted to enter for up to 3 months in the first instance to seek employment. If successful they will be permitted to stay and after 4 years the controls will normally cease. The essential differences are that Australian citizens will not be required to report to the police and they will retain their civic rights including the right to vote and stand for Parliament.

Nothing in the new Immigration Act affects Australians who wish to visit Britain as tourists, as students or for business purposes. In particular, the working holidaymaker arrangement which is open only to Commonwealth citizens and not to foreigners remains exactly the same as before. Australians make much more use of this arrangement than nationals of any other Commonwealth country.

page 28

CAMBODIA

(Question No. 1596)

Senator KANE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

  1. On which occasions did the Cambodian Government make requests to Australia for assistance in the development of its army, including assistance with training.
  2. Is it correct to say that these requests preceded the United States interest on the subject.

Senator WRIGHT - The Minister for Foreign Affairs has furnished the following reply:

  1. The Cambodian Government made its first request for international military aid in a broadcast appeal by the Cambodian Prime Minister on 14th April 1970. This general request was followed up 2 days later by a specific request to Australia through the Australian Ambassador in Phnom Penh. Since that time there have been al least 6 further occasions in 1970 and 1971 on which the Cambodian Government has made known to Australia its interest in receiving particular forms of military assistance, including assistance with training.
  2. The initial request by Cambodia to Australia preceded the first United States approach to us on the question of training assistance for Cambodian forces.
Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Education and Science has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The present basis for the provision of Commonwealth assistance to all States for universities for recurrent purposes is that the Commonwealth provides $1 for each $1.85 provided jointly by Stale grants and fees, up to the limit specified in the relevant legislation.
  2. This is a matter between the Government of Queensland and the University of Queensland.
  3. Commonwealth University Scholarships are awarded to individual students in open competition. The sole criterion for selection is academic merit. The number of Open Entrance awards available arc distributed among the States on a population basis. Later Year awards are allocated on the basis of Australia-wide competition. I do not think that these procedures should be varied.
  4. The Minister has no power to suspend or vary the financial formula for the provision of Commonwealth assistance, to the Stales for universities which is provided by the Slates Grants (Universities) Act 19ii9-71.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (0 The cut-back in steel production by the Broken Hill Proprietary Co. Ltd at its Newcastle plant reflected trends in the demand for the company’s products in both the domestic and overseas markets, and was in line with the trend in the steel industry throughout Mie world.

  1. to (5) Tn his statement on 4th November 1971 my colleague the Minister for Labour and National Service was indicating his concern with the trend of unemployment and for that purpose the relevant statistics are the seasonally adjusted ones. On the other hand, my statement ‘ on 26th October 1971 was concerned with’ the current level of unemployment and for that purpose it is the actual and not the seasonally adjusted figures which are important.

The Minister for Labour and National Service also stated that the figures to be released by his Department on 15th November 1971 would show that the unemployment situation has stabilised. The Minister was referring simply to the situation in the month of October. He was not making any prognostications about the future. On the other hand, my colleague the Treasurer, in his statement on 1st November 1971 was conveying his Department’s assessment of the possible future trend in unemployment.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. and (2) Information is not available to show separately details of remittances for purchases and rentals of television and cinema films. The Reserve Bank has advised that approvals for the provision of foreign currency by authorised banks for both purchases and rentals of films in 1969-70 and 1970-71 were as follows:
Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for Trade and Industry has supplied the following answer:

  1. It is understood that the Special Trade Counter-Measures Office of the Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry will become the No. 4 Overseas Market Division which will handle trade with all countries with centrally planned economies including the People’s Republic of China (PRC). The Division will commence operations as from 1st April 1972.
  2. A major function of the Department of Trade and Industry is to develop new trading opportunities for Australian products in overseas markets. A special effort has been made to keep Australian businessmen as well informed as possible on the market potential and methods of doing business with the PRC. The Department recently prepared a comprehensive publication Guide to the Market - People’s Republic of China’ which is freely available to the public.

It is not possible to determine the actual number of Departmental officers occupied on the development of trade with the PRC. Several Divisions of the Department have an important role to play in this area and many officers devote at least part of their time to particular aspects of trade between Australia and the PRC.

page 29

UNIVERSITIES

(Question No. 1612) Senator MCAULIFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

page 29

ECONOMY

(Question No. 1613) Senator GIETZELT asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

page 29

FILMS

(Question No. 1627) Senator DOUGLAS MCCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice: (:l) What funds have been remitted abroad by Australia, and to what countries, for the purchase of (n) television films and (b) feature or cinema films from foreign countries in each of the financial years 1969-70 and 1970-71.

In 1970-71 an additional sum - equivalent to $A4.1m - was remitted to the non-sterling area in payment for imported films. However, details of the proportions of this amount which relate to films for use on television and for other purposes are not available. The abovementioned payments to the sterling area and non-sterling area relate predominantly to material of United Kingdom and United States of America origin respectively. A more detailed dissection by countries is not available.

page 30

TRADE WITH CHINA

(Question No. 1629) Senator WILLESEE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Industry, upon notice:

ls the Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry establishing a new division to handle trade relations with the People’s Republic of China7

What initiatives is the Australian Department of Trade and Industry taking to promote trade with China, and how many Departmental officers are occupied in work on trade between Australia and China?

page 30

CAMBODIA

(Question No. 1630)

Senator WILLESEE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

Can the Minister explain how the Cambodian Government has accepted Australia’s offer to train Cambodian troops in Vietnam when the Acting Prime Minister and the Minister for Defence both say that no offer has been made, and that Cabinet has simply agreed in principle to discuss the training of Cambodians, subject to suitable arrangements.

Senator WRIGHT- The Minister for Foreign Affairs has furnished the following answer:

The Government is not responsible for the choice of words by, Press correspondents. Pursuant to its decision in principle it has naturally checked to confirm that Australian help with training in South Vietnam would be welcomed by the Cambodian Government; but the Government has not described this inquiry as an offer, nor has the Cambodian Government done so in any public statement.

page 30

OVERSEAS VISIT BY PRIME MINISTER

(Question No. 163S) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) 1 refer the honourable senator to the answer given by the Prime Minister to a question without notice on 24th November 1971 (House of Representatives Hansard, pages 3548- 9).

page 31

MR FELIPE YSMAEL

(Question No. 1640)

Senator CAVANAGH:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Minis ter representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

Were representations made to the Prime Minister by Mr W. Waterhouse on behalf of Mr Felipe Ysmael, for the purpose of allowing Mr Ysmael to enter Australia as a diplomat at the time when he had been indicted in the Philippines oncharges relating to land deals.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

Mr Ysmael was put forward by the Embassy of the Philippines to the Department of Foreign Affairs for accreditation as Economic Attache on the Staff of the Embassy and accepted by the Department of Foreign Affairs on 20th July 1971. The matter was handled by the Department of Foreign Affairs.I was at that time Prime Minister and I received no representations from Mr Waterhouse on it.

page 31

MR FELIPE YSMAEL

(Question No. 1642)

Senator CAVANAGH:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Why has Mr Felipe Ysmael been granted diplomatic status when previous applications for such status had been disallowed by the former Prime Minister.
  2. Has a warrant been issued by the Supreme Court of the Philippines for the arrest of Mr Ysmael; if so, will the Government assist in the execution of the warrant in Australia.
  3. Have representations been made by Messrs Maxwell Newton and W. Waterhouse for the grant of a diplomatic visa to Mr Ysmael, and to persuade the Government not to servethe Philippines court warrant on him.

Senator WRIGHT- The following answer to the honourable senator’s question has been furnished by the Minister for Foreign Affairs:

  1. In August 1970, a proposal was made that

Mr Ysmael be accredited in Australia as ‘Special

Representative’ to undertake trade promotion in Australia and South East Asia. The Philippines Government was notified that the form of accreditation was not in accordance with normal usage and did not pursue it. Mr Ysmael’s name has since been put forward for accreditation as Economic Attache on the staff of the Philippines Ambassador and the accreditation, has been accepted.

  1. No. It is understood that orders were issued by : a Municipal Court in September 1971 and that the presence of respondents is not required under Philippines law.
  2. No.

page 31

DECENTRALISATION

(Question No. 1646)

Senator KANE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for National Development, upon notice:

  1. Are 88.5 per cent of Australians now living in cities, and is Australia now the world’s most urbanised society.
  2. Has the Government ever considered the advisability of providing a taxation incentive to encourage industries to decentralise.

Senator COTTON - The Minister for National Development has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. Preliminary data based upon the 1971 census indicate that 60.1 per cent of Australians live in Darwin and Canberra and the State’s Capital cities. It is only when the number of people living in all urban areas, down to a size of approximately 1.000 persons, are included, that the figure of population concentration approaches 88.5 per cent.

It is not known whether Australia is the world’s most urbanised society,, but there is little doubt that it must rank high amongst the countries of the world.

  1. Taxation concessions have been considered on many occasions by the Commonwealth and. in fact, have been provided to assist non-urban industries. 1 refer to those provided to the primary producing, mining and forestry industries. The zone allowances available to individuals in remote areas of Australia also assist industries in recruiting and retaining employees.

I must point out however, that decentralisation is primarily the responsibility of the State Governments, but the Commonwealth Government has taken an active interest in the subject’. One example is the formation of the Commonwealth/States Committee of officers which has been working on decentralisation matters for some time. The possible provision of taxation concessions is one of the many items which has been considered by the Committee.

The report of this Committee is nearing completion and in due course will be considered by the governments concerned.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP; NCP from May 1975

-BROCKMAN- The

Minister for Supply has provided the following answer to the honourable Senator’s question:

  1. The documents, some classified, were left in a locked drawer of a filing cabinet put up for sale at auction. The papers had been overlooked in the routine inspection of the surplus equipment to be auctioned. (These papers were all dated prior to 1960 and at the time of auction had lost any, significance they might have had.)
  2. As a result of this incident, the existing procedures were revised to ensure that pre-sale inspections of surplus equipment would be thorough and effective.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. I am not aware in specific terms of support to sporting bodies from liquor interests but I am aware that there have been occasions when such interests have given financial support to sporting functions.
  2. With a view to protecting young people, the Programme Standards laid down by the Australian Broadcasting Control Board contain special provisions relating to advertisements for alcoholic liquor which must be observed by commercial broadcasting and television stations. In accordance with these standards such advertisements may not be presented by broadcasting stations on Sunday, Christmas Day or Good Friday, and licensees are required to ensure that all liquor advertising, and especially that associated with sporting events, when large numbers of adolescents may be listening, is presented in good taste and wim restraint. In the case of television, such advertisements may not be televised between 6.00 a.m. and 8.30 a.m. or between 4.00 p.m. and 7.30 p.m., Monday to Saturday inclusive, nor at any time on Sunday, Christmas Day or Good Friday. No advertisements for alcoholic liquor may be televised or broadcast in proximity to programmes for children or at times when the audience may be expected to include large numbers of young people. Young people, whether children or adolescents, must not be allowed to participate in the presentation of these advertisements. The foregoing provisions do not prevent the sponsorship of sporting events broadcast or televised live on Saturday or sponsorship identification in the form of billboards or other forms of institutional identification which do not include a sales message for alcoholic liquor.
  3. The restrictions on the advertising of alcoholic liquor on Sundays reflect to some extent the existence of State laws which restrict the sales of these products on Sundays.
  4. In view of the apparent acceptance by the community generally of the laws which currently exist in relation to the sale of alcoholic liquor, it is considered that the present restrictions on the advertising of alcoholic liquor on radio and television should continue.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The tunnel will be used as a duct for the installation in early 1972, of a section of the Perth-Northam Coaxial Cable. It will remain open when the installation is completed.
  2. The use of the tunnel as explained in (1) above was agreed to on 24th September 1970, by the National Parks Board, the responsible Authority. No change will be made to the structure or appearance of the tunnel. It will retain its civil engineering and tourist interest.

page 32

SECURITY

(Question No. 1650) Senator CAVANAGH asked the Minister representing the Minister for Supply, upon notice:

page 32

ADVERTISING

(Question No. 1651) Senator MCAULIFFE asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice:

page 32

SWAN VIEW RAILWAY TUNNEL

(Question No. 1653) Senator WILKINSON asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice:

page 33

AUSTRALIAN FILM DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION

(Question No. 1659)

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

  1. How many applications have been received to date by the Australian Film Development Corporation for financial assistance in the production and/or distribution of (a) cinema films and (b) television productions.
  2. How many applications have been successful, to whom have loans been advanced and in what amounts.
  3. Has the Corporation given any consideration to taking part in the distribution of films throughout Australia and abroad.

Senator GREENWOOD- The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. I am informed by the Australian Film

Development Corporation that, as at 2nd February 1972. applications totalled 161 made up as follows:

  1. Special Project Films - The Origins of the Polynesian People’.
  2. Norfolk International Films (Fauna) - Bonaparte’.
  3. Air Programs international - ‘Classic Specials’.
  4. Opus Films - The Australian Ark’.
  5. Glyn Davies Associates - ‘Devlin’.
  6. Leyland Brothers- ‘Off the Beaten Track’.
  7. Outback Films - “Country Town’.

    1. Spectrum Film Producers Pty LtdStockade’.
  8. Glyn Davies Associates - ‘Dynasty’ (pilot).
  9. Roger Mirams Productions Pty Ltd - Spyforce’.
  10. 1 . Jack Bellamy Productions Ltd - ‘Melvyn Tan’.
  11. Film Centre Pty Ltd- ‘Smashing Lady’.
    1. N.L.T. Productions - The Immigrant’.
  12. Longford Productions - ‘The Adventures of Barry McKenzie’.
  13. Albert Falzon Productions - ‘The Morning of the Earth’.
  14. Bilcock and Copping Film Productions - Stork’.

The Corporation invests in film projects on a business basis and believes that it would be against the interests of the persons and organisations concerned if it were to divulge details in each case.

  1. The Corporation has given a great deal of thought to the whole question of film distribution.

In the cinema sphere, the Corporation is currently having discussions with major distributors/exhibitors which it hopes will prove beneficial to Australian producers.

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister representing the

Minister for the Environment. Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

Who received assistance last financial year, and for what specific purpose, under the heading of assistance to Australian composers and promotion of Australian music, and is such assistance restricted to projects which will facilitate the performance of Australian serious music.

Senator GREENWOOD - The Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

In the 1970-71 financial year Commonwealth Assistance to Australian Composers provided assistance to the persons and for the purposes set out below:

Short-term aid (to assist composers to complete works on which they are already engaged)-

Mr Barry Conyngham

Mr Robert Hughes

Mr A. J. Penberthy

Mr Felix Werder

Assistance to organisations to help with the commissioning of works by Australian composers -

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for Trade and Industry has now supplied me with the following reply:

  1. A Yugoslav enterprise, Progres, unsuccessfully tendered to the Hydro-Electric Commission of Tasmania for the supply of generators and turbines for the Middle Gordon Power Development Scheme. The successful tenderers were Nissho Iwai Co. Aust. Pty Ltd (for turbines) and Siemens Industries Ltd (for generators).
  2. The same enterprise, Progres, has tendered for both the civil works project and the electrical and mechanical works contract for the Upper Ramu Hydro-Electric Scheme in Kie Territory of Papua and New Guinea. These tenders are still under consideration along wilh all others received.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

Commonwealth Departments and the Armed Services do not pay to the Stales road haulage or similar taxes in respect of Commonwealth vehicles.

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The question of the possibilities for greater opportunities for Australian musicians in commercial broadcasting is still under active consideration by the Australian Broadcasting Control Board. Since the discussions wilh the Federal Council of the Federation of Australian Commercial Broadcasters the Board has had meetings with representatives of the Musicians Union who supplied information on various aspects of the matter. The Board has received the results of two surveys carried out by the Federation of Australian Commercial Broadcasters and these are being studied in conjunction with other material being obtained through the Board’s own resources.
  2. The present requirement that not less than 5 per cent of time occupied in the broadcasting of music shall be devoted to the broadcasting of works of Australian composers is contained in sub-section 114.(2.) of the Broadcasting and Television Act. The adequacy of the requirement would be one of the matters included in the Board’s current study mentioned above.

page 33

ASSISTANCE TO AUSTRALIAN COMPOSERS

(Question No.166A)

Assistance toMusic Publishers for the publication of compositions -

Assistance for copying parts of scores for performance -

An allocationis made each year to the Australasian Performing Right Association for the purpose of meeting the costs of copying parts of compositions for performance. Performances of works of the following composers were assisted in this way:

Mr Colin Brumby

Mr George English

Mr Raymond Hanson

Mr Donald Hollier

Mr Peter Sculthorpe

Mr Larry Sitsky

Mr Peter Tarhoudin

Mr Felix Werder

Assistance for the recording of works by Australian Composers - E.M.I. (Australia) Ltd -

Mr Ross Edwards

Mr Richard Meale

Mr Peter Sculthorpe

Mr Felix Werder

Special Music Supplements - -

Purchase of 3,500 copies of compositions by Australian composers for insertion in the Journals of the Australian Society of Music Education published twice yearly. The composers were:

Dr William Lovelock

Mr Larry Sitsky

Lecture/Recitals -

Grants to State Adult Education authorities in Western Australia and Queensland for lecture/recitals to encourage interest in Australian music at the community level. Special Grants -

Contributions towards the costs of the 1971 National Young Composers’ Seminar in Perth.

Contributions towards the costs of bringing Dr A. Jurres, President of the International Society for Contemporary Music, from Perth where he was Guest Lecturer at the National Young Composers’ Seminar to Melbourne and Sydney for discussions with members of music organisations and composers.

Commonwealth Assistance to Australian Composers is not restricted to assessing projects which will facilitate the performance of Austrian serious music. Assistance may extend to all Australian music, the criteria of judgment being musical distinction or excellence of its kind.

page 34

DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS: YUGOSLAV TENDERS

(Question No. 1665) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and lndus ry, upon notice:

page 34

ROAD TAX

(Question No. 1670) Senator DOUGLAS McCELLAND asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

Does the Commonwealth pay road haulage tax or any comparable payment to the States, in respect to Commonwealth vehicles, including vehicles used by the Department of Supply for road haulage purposes and armed services vehicles.

page 34

AUSTRALIAN MUSICIANS

(Question No. 1674) Senator DOUGLAS MCCLELLAND asked the Minister representing the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice:

page 35

BROADCASTS BY SATELLITE

(Question No. 1677)

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Attorney-General, upon notice:

  1. What was the result of the deliberations of the committee of government experts which discussed copyright, and protection of performers, in connection with broadcasts by satellite at Lausanne, Switzerland, in April 1971.
  2. Who represented Australia at the discussions.
  3. What action is proposed to be taken to protect copyright and Australian performers.

Senator GREENWOOD- The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

  1. The Committee of Governmental Experts was convened to consider problems in the field of copyright and of the protection of performers, producers of phonograms and broadcasting organisations raised by transmission via space satellites. After considering a number of suggested approaches to the solution of problems that were thought to be likely to arise in those fields, the Committee decided to prepare a draft text of a possible new Convention. The draft text, which was annexed to the Committee’s report, provided for alternative approaches on a number of points.
  2. Australia was represented by Mr G. Lawless, a diplomatic officer stationed in Europe. Full briefing was provided by my Department.
  3. A copy of the Committee’s report has been sent to interested Australian organisations with an invitation to submit comments on the report by 25 th February 1972. A further Committee of Experts will meet in Paris from 9th to 17th May 1972. Comments on the draft Convention will be furnished to that Committee. These comments will take into account representations received from the interested Australian organisations. Consideration will be given to Australian representation on that Committee.

page 35

ELECTRONIC MAIL SORTING SYSTEM

(Question No. 1681)

Senator Douglas McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister representing the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice:

  1. What was the cost of installing the electronic mail sorting system at the Redfern Mail Exchange and how much has been spent on maintenance in each of the financial years since the equipment was installed?

    1. When was the installation carried out?
    2. Which company manufactured the system, who were the Directors of the company at the time the contract was entered into for the supply of the equipment and how much was paid to the Company?
    3. What was the estimated capacity of the machine at the lime of installation, and what is the best figure it has achieved to date?

Senator GREENWOOD- The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senators question:

  1. (a) $3.58m.

    1. The following amounts have been spent in maintenance on the electronic letter handling system in each of the financial years since the equipment was installed: 1967- 68- $350,310 (6 months only)

1968- 69-4964,430

1969- 70- $995,600

1970- 71- $1,142,000

1971- 72- $311,560 (4 months only)

  1. Installation of the system commenced in February 1966, and was accepted by the Department on 5th June 1968.
  2. (a) Telephone and Electrical Industries Pty Ltd. Faraday Park, Meadowbank, New South Wales.

    1. Directors of the Company when contract was let in 1962:
    1. Sir Giles CHIPPINDALL,

C.B.E - Chairman

  1. Kenneth McTintosh WHYTEManaging Director
  2. Hugh Trail ARMITAGE
  3. Frederick Henry BAKER
  4. Ralph Jamas DARTON
  5. Norman Maxwell DUNN
  6. John Alfred KNIGHT
  7. George Frederick SARGESON

    1. A total of $4.9 1m was paid to the company for the supply and installation of all mechanised mail handling systems in the Sydney Mail Exchange, including modifications to plant, price variations and escalations. Of this amount the $3. 58m quoted above was for the electronic letter handling system.
    1. In any discussion of machine capacity for the handling of mail it is important to recognise that mail traffic, like vehicular traffic or telephone traffic, fluctuates in intensity throughout the day, with the heaviest surge occurring in the late afternoon and early evening. Mail is also subject to seasonal peaks, the most intense of which predictably occur in November/ December and at Easter time. In designing equipment to handle mail traffic, the seasonal peak hour load is the criterion the designer must use in dimensioning the system.

For Redfern a figure of 300,000 letters per hour was quoted as the maximum theoretical throughput, to enable tenderers to determine the required number of coding positions and decoding machines, and the carrying capacity for the letter distribution network. This figure was derived from a projection of actual traffic counts, and provided for reasonable traffic growth and the fact that 100 per cent machine utilisation cannot bc achieved in practice.

At the time the system was installed, itwas expected that the peak hour capacity under operating conditions would be about 200,000let- ters/hour. However, in the light of operating experience (his figure is now believed to bc 180,000 articles/hour. So far peak hourly throughputs of up to 160,000 articles/hour have been achieved.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Minister for Defence has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The only installation in Australia which might be described as a United States base is the United States Naval Communications Station :;t Northwest Cape.

Other joint undertakings sometimes referred to as bases are: The Joint Defence Space Research Facility at

Pine Gap, near Alice Springs; The Joint Defence Space Communications

Station, Nurrungar, near Woomera;

The Joint Geological and Geophysical Research Project in Alice Springs;

The United States Air Force Detachment at Amberley, engaged in research into atmospheric disturbances.

Other activities, including the National Aeronautics Space Administration (NASA) network of tracking stations, the Mildura balloon launching station, the Tranet navigational receiving station at Smithfield and the Baker Nunn photographic satellite tracking station at Woomera are operated by Australians in conjunction with or on behalf of United States agencies and could not be described as United States basis. These activities were described by a former Minister for Defence on 29th August 1967 and on 19th October 1970.

All of the foregoing installations may be inspected by Australian Parliamentarians subject only to the normal requirements of operational convenience and prior arrangements being made through the Australian Co-operating Agency concerned. 1 should point out. however, that where classified activities are involved, certain parts of some installations are accessible only to persons who have some direct responsibility for the activity.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. I am nol in a position to express any authoritative opinion on this question.
  2. Basically, the Government takes the view that it ought not to interfere in the activities of the various voluntary aid organisations in Australia - leaving it to the decision of individual people whether to support them or not, and to the organisations concerned to decide where and how the funds which they raise should be spent. In these circumstances, 1 am unable to comply with the honourable senator’s request.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

  1. I have seen reports that posters of the National Socialist Party of Australia and slogans of similar type were to be seen at the venue of the Council of Churches Conference to which the honourable senator refers.
  2. It is a matter of public knowledge that the Australian League of Rights and the National Civic Council are active in Queensland and elsewhere.
  3. No.
Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. and (2) The land concerned is held under legal title granted from the Crown to the Wave Hill Pastoral Co. Pty Ltd. The question of any action to prevent interference with the lessee’s rights to enjoyment and use of the land held by him will be considered if and when such circumstances arise.

A Committee under the chairmanship of Professor Gibb has recently reviewed the situation of Aboriginal communities on pastoral properties generally including the relationship of individual communities to particular land areas and the need for land for recreational or camping purposes. What further steps might appropriately be taken in regard to the small community at Wattie Creek will lie considered in the light of this report.

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Education and Science has provided the following reply to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. f should Imagine that financial hardship could well be a contributing factor in divorce, but I have no particular knowledge relating to the question the senator asks. He may care to raise this matter with the Minister for Social Services.
  2. In general the States determine the curricula used in their schools. By arrangement, schools in the Australian Capital Territory and the community schools in the Northern Territory follow the curricula of New South Wales and South Australian schools respectively. I am informed that in all States there are secondary school courses which treat such matters as hirepurchase agreements, instalment purchase, mortgages, and the like. However, it seems likely that only a minority of students would take such courses.

While I am not in a position to take the action proposed by the honourable senator, I am happy to ask my Department to consider the idea and to follow it up in whatever way they can.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for Trade and Industry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The Tariff Board in its Annual Report for the year 1970-71 reported that in 1967-68 the pharmaceutical and toilet preparations industry had an average effective rate of protection of 68 per cent and in the 2 years 1968-69 and 1969-70 had a 25.4 per cent operating profit as a percentage of funds employed. This was the highest operating profit of the 31 industry groupings listed in the Report.
  2. The Tariff Board also reported that in 1966- 67, 76.3 per cent of the value of production of the pharmaceutical and toilet preparations industry group was subject to foreign control. The policy of successive Australian Governments has been that reasonable and adequate protection should be afforded to economic and efficient Australian industries. Before reaching decisions on the level of protection to be afforded to an industry the Government seeks the advice of the Tariff Board on these matters, lt would be inconsistent with this policy to remove or reduce any protective tariff except after public inquiry and report by the Tariff Board. It is, however, open to any interested party, which can establish a reasonable case that a current tariff is higher than necessary to protect a particular industry, to seek a reference to the Board for a review inquiry and report. Additionally, the Government has decided that there will be a progressive review of the Tariff. References covering the Machinery Chapter of the Tariff have been forwarded to the Tariff Board and these will be followed in due course by references in the area of Manufactures of Metals.
Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The status of the land concerned is that it is Crown Land held under lease granted in accordance with Northern Territory law to the Wave Hill Pastoral Company Pty Ltd.
  2. See answer to (1) above. A Committee under the chairmanship of Professor Gibb has recently reviewed the situation of Aboriginal communities on pastoral properties generally including the relationship of individual communities to particular land areas and the need for land for recreational or camping purposes. What further steps might appropriately be taken in regard to the small community at Wattie Creek will be considered in the light of this report.
Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

  1. I have considered a resolution passed at a public meeting arranged by the ‘Save Hallett Cove’ Committee and held in Adelaide on 15th October 1971.
  2. The establishment and management of national parks and reserves in the States is the constitutional responsibility of the State Governments. 1 have seen reports to the effect that some 51 acres at Hallett Cove have been proclaimed by the South Australian Government, acting within its responsibility, as an area of scientific interest, and that it is examining the question of purchasing not only this area but also a buller zone around it.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

Access to the national S.T.D. network Ls dependent upon the installation of automatic trunk switching equipment at the Murray Bridge exchange and the prior competion of other projects in the area.

At present only 18 per cent of all trunk calls leaving the area cannot be dialled by subscribers. In addition, nation-wide S.T.D. access for calls to Murray Bridge and its dependent exchanges has been available since late 1968.

Having regard to the high proportion of trunk calls which can already by dialled by Murray Bridge subscribers and the more urgent demands of other areas on the available resources, il is not practicable to provide full S.T.D. facilities at that centre before 1975.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

  1. All captains and trainee captains employed by Qantas are required to qualify through that Company’s training and checking organisation.
  2. Legislation which has been in force since 1958 makes provision for the holder of a first class airline transport pilot licence who has ceased to be employed by an Australian airline to have his licence renewed subject to the express approval of the Director-General and :he completion of the necessary tests.

A number of licences have been renewed under these provisions both prior to 1967-6H and since, but although comprehensive records are maintamed by the Department of Civil Aviation the consolidated information does not provide the personal details associated wilh each application.

As (ar as can be determined, prior to 1967-68 there were no initial issues of first class airline transport pilot licences to pilots other than those employed by Australian airlines.

  1. The DC3 captains of Jetair Australia Ltd were employed on a charter operation authorised under the provisions of Air Navigation Regulation 203. The senior commercial pilot licence endorsed with a first class instrument raring is appropriate lo this class of operation.
  2. As Jetair were engaged in charter operations their captains were required to meet the senior commercial pilot licence and first class instrument rating standards.

page 36

UNITED STATES BASES IN AUSTRALIA

(Question No. 1685) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

Are there more than 25 United States bases in Australia and Australian Territories; if so, what are their locations and how many of them are open to inspection by Australian Parliamentarians.

page 36

OVERSEAS AID

(Question No. 1689) Senator MILLINER asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

page 36

EXTREMIST GROUPS

(Question No. 1690) Senator MCAULIFFE asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon notice:

page 36

NORTHERN TERRITORY

(Question No. 1695) Senator POKE asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

page 37

HOME ECONOMICS

(Question No. 1697) Senator MCAULIFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

page 37

TARIFF BOARD

(Question No. 1698) Senator WILLESEE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Industry, upon notice:

page 37

NORTHERN TERRITORY

(Question No. 1701) Senator KEEFFE to ask the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior:

page 38

HALLETT COVE

(Question No. 1704) Senator CAVANAGH asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

page 38

SUBSCRIBER TRUNK DIALLING

(Question No. 1705) Senator McLAREN asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice:

Why will Murray Bridge have to wait until 1975 for connection to the national subscriber trunk dialling network, having in mind the fact that it has a modern automatic exchange with subscriber trunk dialling to Adelaide.

page 38

CIVIL AVIATION

(Question No. 1706) Senator WRIEDT asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

Provisions exist in Air Navigation Regulation 66 (i) and (2) for the recognition of overseas qualifications subject to such conditions and limitations and for such periods as the DirectorGeneral thinks fit. In no sense does the regulation make provision for the automatic recognition of overseas qualifications. The main factor which led to the variation of the Australian requirement that airline transport pilot licences be issued only to pilots employed by Australian airlines was that the Australian requirements were higher than the licensing standards specified by ICAO. The Department formerly relied on the pilot licence to ensure that the required standard was met by pilots in command of aircraft engaged in regular public transport operations, lt was found that this concept was placing Australian pilots at a disadvantage when competing for positions with overseas operators. It was therefore decided to issue licences which were more closely allied lo 1CAO standards and rely on procedures within the airlines to ensure that appropriate standards were met by pilots employed in regular public transport operations.

The decision was made in November 196? and all Regional offices of the Department of Civil Aviation were advised. In view of the limited application of the revised policy special promulgation was nol considered warranted but the variation was listed for inclusion in the appropriate legislation in due course.

This would nol have been practicable, as empoyment by an Australian airline was a prerequisite for in;, issue of an airline transport pilot licence.

As stated in answer (3) this would nol have been practicable, as an airline transport pilot, licence would not have been issued unless the applicant was employed by an Australian airline and had successfully undertaken the specified Flight Proficiency Test.

page 39

CIVIL AVIATION

(Question No. 1707) Senator WRIEDT asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

page 39

NORTHERN TERRITORY

(Question No. 1709)

Senator KEEFFE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

Has the pipe to supply water to the Wave Hill and Wattie Creek settlements in the Northern Territory been laid, and is water from the Wattie Creek bore now available?

Senator COTTON - The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

In August 1971 the Minister for the Interior announced that an assured supply of water would be provided to Wattie Creek from new bores which were then being tested for flow. The Minister said that the water supply to Wattie Creek would be connected in the interests of the health of the community as soon as funds became available. Testing of the bores has only recently been completed and estimates for equipping the bores and reticulating the wafer are being prepared.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. and (2) The reserve prices of land offered for lease in November ranged from $1,460 to $6,960. Successful bids ranged from $495 (bidding for restricted leases commenced at 25 per cent of the reserve price) to $8,400. Of the 2,337 sites offered for lease this year, 771 were sold at the reserve price. Of the 404 leases passed in unsold, on 1st December seventeen were still available upon payment of 25 per cent of the reserve price. The minimum initial payment required from purchasers of these leases ranged from $390 to £725. The balance of the reserve price is payable on terms over a maximum period of 31 years and at present at 6i per cent interest. The supply of residential land cannot be said to be deficient while blocks are passed in at auction and are available over the counter, which has been the situation throughout this year. There is no justification for a public inquiry into this matter.

page 39

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY: LAND SALE PRICES

(Question No. 1711) Senator KEEFFE asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

page 40

PHYTOPHTHORA CINNAMOMI

(Question No. 1714)

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for National Development, upon notice:

  1. How effective - have .been- the measures to control hyptophthora Cinnamomi in the janan forests of Western Australia?
  2. Has the problem been, discussed by the Austraiian Forestry Council?
  3. Has the Minister perused a paper by Podger and Ashton which notes that this plant pathogen has been fatal to a wide range of native plants in Victoria
  4. Has the Minister also noted a paper by 1 lanigan which shows that the pathogen, is present in the New South Wales Forestry Commission pine nursery at Bathurst?
  5. What special measures have been taken in conjunction with the States to ensure that pine plantations in. proximity to native eucalypt forests are being planted with slock which is free of the pathogen’.’

Senator COTTON - The Minister for National Development has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The control of root-rot due to Phytophthora cinnamomi presents some complex ecological problems on which research is in progress at several centres in Australia, including the Forestry and Timber Bureau’s Western. Australian Research Station and its Forest Research Institute in Canberra. The Forests Department of Western Australia is also-working on the problem, and has put into force in the jarrah forests certain measures aimed at reducing the spread of the fungus through movement of soil. There are, however, indications that the fungus is widely distributed in eucalypt forests in Australia (including the ACT) but that it causes harmful root-rot only under particular conditions. The critical factor appears to be root stress (such as may arise from fluctuations in soil moisture conditions), but the exact cause seems to vary in. different localities. Further research is required before the behaviour of the fungus can be fully understood. As Phyt option ora cinnamomi is a soil organism, it is unlikely that it can be controlled by any direct method of attack over extensive areas of forest, and the prevention of damage by this fungus will probably be a matter of preserving the general health of tree and other crops.
  2. Yes. It was discussed at the 7th meeting of the Australian Forestry Council.
  3. and (4) Yes. I am aware of the papers mentioned and they have been studied thoroughly by officers of my Department.
  4. The pine species commonly planted in Australia are less susceptible nhan jarrah, to attack by Phytophthora cinnamomi and so far the fungus has caused only sporadic damage in pine plantations except when they have been established on unsuitable sites, lt has also been reported from several forest nurseries where, however, it can be kept in check. There is no evidence that the planting of pines has added to the distribution of the fungus or to its incidence in eucalypt forest, and there are as yet no practicable means of ensuring that nursery , plants are free of Phytophthora cinnamomi.

page 40

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY

(Question No. 1716)

Senator WILLESEE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

Does the Government have any plans for legislation to place some limit on the permissible level of noise that may bc emitted by motor vehicles and motor cycles in the Australian Capital Territory?

Senator COTTON- The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The problem of prescribing enforceable maximum noise levels by legislation is receiving attention. The nature of the legislative provisions will depend to a great extent on expert advice as to how ‘undue noise’ may bc measured. This aspect of the matter is at present being studied.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (I), (2) and (3). International freight rates are established through negotiations between the member airlines of the international Air Transport Association. Proposals agreed to in this manner may only enter into force after they have been approved by thu governments concerned.

Special rates have been provided for shipments of fresh fruit and vegetables from Sydney, Perth and Brisbane to Singapore, and from Sydney to Tokyo. As you ‘ know, an additional charge of 11c per kilo) has been made for consignments from Melbourne.

Qantas have been aware of this problem for some time. In fact they had proposed to the other carriers that this additional charge should be eliminated.

Agreement was reached that the additional charge be dropped as from 16th December, except in the case of consignments to Singapore which weigh 100 kilos and less. Qantas intend to continue negotiations wilh a view lo having this exception deleted.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The Treasurer has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The total amount of deductions claimed for medical expenses in income tax returns for the 1971-72 income year will be affected by the increase from 50c to $1 effective from 1st November 1971 in the charge payable by patients under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, lt is estimated that the loss to income tax revenue that will result from the increase in deductions allowed for such expenses will be approximately $4m in 1972-73 and $6m in a full year.

page 40

CIVIL AVIATION

(Question No. 1719) Senator LITTLE asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

page 41

NATIONAL HEALTH SCHEME

(Question No. 1722) Senator DRURY asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice:

What is the estimated loss of revenue to the Treasury,, through income tax rebates, as a result of the increase to $1 for medicines provided under the National Health Scheme.

page 41

AUSTRALIAN FILM DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION

(Question No. T725)

Senator DOUGLAS MCCLELLAND:

Asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Aborigines and the Arts, upon notice:

Has the Australian Film Development Corporation invested in an Australian feature film named ‘Stockade’; if so, what arc the terms and conditions of the investment.

Do Australian feature films have tremendous difficulty in securing outlets for the effective distribution of their productions because of monopoly control of distribution.

Will the Minister request the Corporation, if only, to adequately protect its own investments, to give immediate consideration to establishing a distribution company to ensure effective distribution in Australia and overseas of Australian productions.

When can the Parliament expect to receive the Annual Report of the Corporation for the year ended 30th June 1.971.

Yes. The Corporation invests in film projects on a business basis and believes that it would be against the interests of the persons and organisations concerned it it were to divulge details in each case. However, in (his case the producer concerned has made known publicly that the amount of the Corporation’s investment was $16,000.

and (3) The Australian feature film industry has, in the past, experienced difficulty in securing outlets for the effective distribution of their products. The Corporation is currently having discussions with leaders of the existing film distribution/exhibition groups. It is hopeful that from these discussions will come an arrangement which will put Australian films onto Australian screens and which will properly provide adequate financial terms to producers. In ibc early months of its existence, the Corporation is hopeful that the establishment of ils own distribution company will not prove necessary.

The Corporation’s Annual Report was tabled on 8th December 1971.

page 41

PEST CONTROL

(Question No. 1727)

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

Can the decissions of the recent international conference on pest control, held al the Channel Island of Jersey, be made available to the Parliament.

Senator WRIGHT- The Minister lor Education and Science has supplied the following answer:

The conference referred lo was- the Third British Conference on Pest Control held on 3rd-8th October. No formal decisions were made. An officer of the CSIRO Division of Entomology attended the conference and will be reporting to the Division after his return in February 1972. Information about the conference could then be made available.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

In accordance with the Government’s directions on economic policy the staffing levels of airport traffic officers have been very carefully reviewed.

The allocation of t raffle staff to the car park exits at Sydney International Terminal ls, therefore, arranged basically to cater for the demand patterns created by scheduled aircraft movements.

Occasions do arise, when non-scheduled aircraft operations cause unusual peaks in traffic flow from the car park. A brief delay may then occur while additional staff is re-allocated from other airport duties to man extra exit gates.

Traffic flow studies carried out by the Department, however, have not revealed any abnormal vehicle build-ups at the car park exits within the last 12 months.

page 42

CIVIL AVIATION

(Question No. 1731) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

Why is maximum use of the car parking facilities at Sydney International Airport denied by not having all exits manned at peak periods?

page 42

DESERTING SEAMEN

(Question No. 1733)

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, upon notice:

How many seamen deserted their ships at Australian ports between March and September. 1971; how many of each nationality were involved, and how many of each nationality were allowed to remain m Austrafia.

Senator GREENWOOD- The Minister for Immigration has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (i.) A total of 368 seamen deserted their vessels al Australian ports between 1st March 1971 and 30th September 1971. The breakdown by nationality is shown in the following table:

  1. Fifteen of the men have been allowed, to remain, pending it being” determined whether they can meet the requirements for the grant of resident status. Their nationalities are as follows: -

page 42

NORTHERN TERRITORY ADMINISTRATION

(Question No. 1739)

Senator McLAREN:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

Will all employees of the Northern Territory Administration be denied the privilege of serving as individuals, as they have in the past with distinction, in the many Northern Territory statutory authorities, in view of the recent statement by the Administration that such employees who are appointed to statutory authorities are representatives of the Administration and Government?

Senator COTTON- The Minister for the Interior, has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

An officer or employee of the Northern Territory Administration appointed to a Statutory Board or Authority in that Territory because of the official position he occupies in that Administration must be understood to have accepted such an appointment on the basis that he represents the Administration or the Government on that Board or Authority.

This docs not apply, however, in the case of an officer or employee of the Administration appointed to a Statutory Board or Authority because of particular interests, skills or qualifications he possesses in his capacity as a private citizen of the Territory as distinct from his official capacity as a servant of the Administration.

page 43

COMMONWEALTH CENTRAL CRIME INTELLIGENCE BUREAU

(Question No. 1742) Senator MURPHY asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon notice:

and (2) The Central Crime Intelligence Bureau has been established administratively as a section of the Commonwealth Police Force. The Bureau consists of 13 officers stationed at Canberra. There are, in addition, a total of 28 officers in the Crime Intelligence Sections of the State branches of the Commonwealth’ Police Force who perform work forthe Bureau.

The Bureau has established facilities to enable it to collate and disseminate information on drug offences to law enforcement bodies by means of intelligence reports issued at intervals of approximately one week, periodical surveys and other methods of communication.

and (5) Since the date on which the report of the Select Committee was issued an additional research officer has been appointed to the Bureau. The staffing needs of the Bureau have been kept under review. My Department is also making an examination of the possible use of a computer to assist in performing various functions of the Department and its branches. This examination includes a consideration of the use of the computer for Commonwealth Police purposes.

page 43

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES

(Question No. 1743)

Senator MURPHY:

asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon notice:

What steps have been taken by the AttorneyGeneralin regard to law enforcement agencies under his control to strengthen collaboration between existing Australian law enforcement agencies and international law enforcement agencies against drug trafficking, as recommended in the report of the Senate Select Committee on Drug Trafficking and Drug Abuse.

Senator GREENWOOD- The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

The recommendation of the Senate Select Committee on drug trafficking and drug abuse, so far as is relevant, stated ‘all steps possible should be taken to strengthen collaboration between existing Australian and International law enforcement agencies against drug trafficking’. In the body of its report, the Committee said that it believed that the most useful means of achieving this is by frequent personal contact and the interchange of members for tours of duty with their counterparts in other forces.

The following action, generally along these lines, has been proceeding for some time. Senior officers of the Commonwealth Police Force attend international seminars and conferences relating to drug trafficking and drug abuse. An adviser from the Commonwealth Police Force attends the meeting of the National Standing Control Committee on Drugs of Dependence. Overseas study and training tours are made by officers of the Commonwealth Central Crime Intelligence Bureau. Discussions have been held with the SecretaryGeneral of Interpol. The Commonwealth Police Force arranges and conducts at the Australian Police College training courses for investigating officers at which experienced officers from Hong Kong and Singapore have given lectures.

Senator MURPHY:

asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon not ice:

Has any action yet been taken by the AttorneyGeneral to place the point of contact between Australia and Interpol on a national level associated with the Commonwealth Police Force, as suggested in the report of the Senate Select Committee on Drug Trafficking and Drug Abuse.

Senator GREENWOOD- The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

The matter is under discussion between the Commonwealth and Victoria.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

The first stage of the review has commenced. This is taking the form of a compilation and analysis by each Minister, in respect of his Department, of departmental functions and activities. This basic information will be the subject of further review by a committee of senior Ministers. lt was made clear in the Budget Speech that the review is aimed at ensuring that the rate of increase in departmental expenditure is restricted lo the absolute minimum consistent with the execution of Commonwealth functions of vital importance lo the national welfare, and further that the review, which is to be conducted within the Government itself, will of necessity be spread over a period of some months.

Senator MURPHY:

asked the Attorney-

General, upon notice:

How many officers of the law enforcement agencies under the control of the AttorneyGeneral are engaged (a) full-time and (b) part-lime, in enforcement of laws relating to drug trafficking and drug abuse, and what equivalent number of full-time officers would be represented by the part-lime officers engaged.

Senator GREENWOOD - The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

The Commonwealth Police Force provides assistance as required to officers of Customs and of the Slate police forces who have the primary responsibility for enforcing laws relating to narcotics. Apart from the officers engaged in the work of the Central Crime Intelligence Bureau - see my answer to Question No. J 742 - it is not possible to estimate how many full-time officers would be represented by this assistance.

page 43

INTERPOL

(Question No. , 1744)

page 43

PUBLIC SERVICE

(Question No. 1746) Senator WILLESEE asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice:

Has the review of existing functions and activities of departments, which was foreshadowed in the Treasurer’s budget speech, commenced; if so, who is conducting it, and when can a report be expected.

page 44

DRUGS

(Question No. 1747)

page 44

GORDON RIVER VALLEY FLOODING

(Question No. 1752)

Senator TOWNLEY:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for National Development, upon notice: (lj Will the present planned flooding of the Gordon River Valley in southern Tasmania by the Hydro-electric Commission result in the destruction of some 90 per cent of the available commercial limber, worth many millions of dollars, over more than 9,000 acres.

  1. Will the Minister take up the matter with the Tasmanian Government and attempt to have the Hooding delayed for sufficient time to enable the salvaging of this timber, much of which is in world-wide demand.

Senator COTTON- The Minister for

National Development has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (11 and (2) Information supplied by the Tasmanian Forestry Commission indicates that as a result of the flooding of the Gordon River Valley, an area of about 8,230 acres of timbered land will be covered by water. The Forestry Commission has estimated that this area carries approximately 67 million super feel (hoppus) of saw logs and the 3 firms at present extracting saw logs from the area should recover 90 per cent of the total volume.

There is a large quantity of pulp wood which is in jeopardy and T understand the Tasmanian Government is currently considering what action might be taken to recover this timber.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– The following is provided in answer to the honourable senator’s question:

What has been secured for the protection of Australian trade interests during the transitional period for British entry to the E.E.C. is a clause which, in brief, provides that the enlarged Community will be ready to take prompt and effective action to remedy any difficulties arising out of the transitional arrangements for agriculture and horticulture or any threat of abrupt dislocation lo Commonwealth and other third country suppliers.

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Education and Science has provided the following answer lo the honourable member’s question:

  1. Yes.
  2. The University has advised (hat the research to be undertaken in connection with the projected space programme is into irregularities in the ionosphere. Research on this problem has been proceeding for some years in the University. The Lockheed Laboratories have been engaged in research of a similar kind and there arc advantages to be gained in co-operation between research workers in both the northern and southern hemispheres.

The research is fundamental in that it is not directed to the solution of any specific applied problem. The results will lead to a belter understanding of the ionosphere and of the causes of irregularities which have been observed in its behaviour. In the long term it may be expected to lead to improvements in communications which could be of great value to such organisations as the Postmaster-General’s Department, the Australian Broadcasting Commission, the Department of Civil Aviation and the Bureau of Meteorology. There is no secrecy in this research and those engaged in it are free to publish the findings in learned journals which are available for study anywhere in the world.

Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question.

  1. Yes, John Clemenger Pty Ltd, Melbourne.
  2. The estimated 1972 budget for the Postal Services’ information and stall recruitment programme is $400,000. 71 is includes the creation of media advertising and the design and cost of production of printed material aimed at informing customers of the avalability, benefits and correct use of the various postal services.
  3. The agency will receive its remuneration from media commissions, reimbursement for design and production costs, and service fees in accordance with accepted commercial advertising practices. The actual payments will depend upon the combinations of media used and the amount of design and production work required for each campaign.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The PostmasterGeneral has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. One of the main purposes of the Telecommunications Area Management scheme is to decentralise decision making from capital cities to country centres in the interests of improved service and efficiency. Essentially’ it is the grouping together of all activities which make up the telecommunications service in a particular area into relatively self-contained and autonomous business units. Being closer to the customers Area Managers will be in a better position to gauge and respond quickly to local needs. They will b< vested with appropriate authority and responsibility and will be held accountable for the business performance in their areas. Economies in operation will bc possible, because lines of control will be shortened, work procedures will be made more efficient by eliminating a number of existing stages and there will be more effective use of equipment and other resources than is possible under the present arrangements.

His centres to become country Area Headquarters will not be finally selected until late 1972 or early 1973. The effect on those centres not selected will bc minimal as only, 8 to 12 positions will be transferred from each place concerned to the Area Headquarters over a period of years as vacancies occur due to promotions and normal staff wastage. In addition to this relocation of positions within country ar?as, between 300 and 400 professional and administrative positions overall will be gradually transferred from the existing capital city headquarters lo the selected country Area Headquarters in a similar way over the same period.

  1. See answer to (1).
Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Foreign Affairs has furnished the following reply:

  1. The answer to the second part of the honourable senator’s question is that the Australian Ambassador to the Republic of China was in Australia in December and January for leave and consultations, and returned to his post on 13th February. The other two parts of the question involve matters of policy, for the discussion of which the answer to a question on notice- is nol au appropriate vehicle.
Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP; NCP from May 1975

-BROCKMAN- The

Minister for the Navy has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s questions:

  1. A large quantity of oil from the tanks in Hobart was drawn off by HMAS ‘Supply” on 4th December 1971 in keeping with the policy of turning over stocks of oil to the best advantage
  2. There is no present intention of disposing of the site of the oil fuel installation in Hobart, lt is Navy policy to maintain stocks of fuel at selected ports throughout Australia.
  3. The land containing the Navy Oil Fuel Installation is owned by the Commonwealth.
  4. Yes.
Senator COTTON:
LP

– The Minuter for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s, question:

  1. Thi. matter is the responsibility of the tocal New South Wales authorities. The- Department of the Interior and the National Capital Development Commission have been consulted by the local authority ami the companies concerned and it is expected that there- will be’ no adverse effects on the amenity of the future residents of Tuggeranong. (2? Yes. lt is understood that the companies are providing for dust suppression, by spray water techniques and adequate provision is to be hinde for settling ponds for run-off water.
  2. This is strictly a matter for the New South Wales authorities, I believe the local authority has imposed certain conditions of control applicable to extractive industries and these are to be the subject of discussion with the Department of the Interior and the National Capital Development Commission. Both Ready Mixed Concrete Pty Ltd and Farley and Lewers Pty Ltd, have had discussions with the Department and the National Capital Development Commission on guidelines for environmental management for their respective quarry proposals.
  3. See above answers.

page 44

TRADE

(Question No. 1753) Senator LILLICO asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Industry, upon notice:

Has there been any definite undertaking, such as that given to New Zealand, given in regard 10 the transitional period for Australian exporters to Britain, mentioned recently by Mr Rippon and Australian Government Ministers, both in terms of time and injury to Australian exporters and particularly primary producers.

page 44

UNIVERSITIES

(Question No. 1760) Senator PRIMMER asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

page 45

POSTAL DEPARTMENT: ADVERTISING

(Question No. 1762) Senator WILLESEE asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General upon notice:

Has the Australian Post Office recently appointed an advertising agency to handle advertising for its postal services; if so, (a) which agency has been appointed, (b) what is the size of the advertising budget to be handled and (c) what payment will the agency receive for its services.

page 45

POSTAL DEPA RTMENT: CENTRALISATION

(Question No. 1765) Senator WILLESEE asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice:

page 45

CHINA

(Question No. 1769) Senator KANE asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

page 46

NAVY

(Question No. 1770) Senator POKE asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Navy, upon notice:

page 46

QUARRYING

(Question No. 1773) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

page 46

QUARRYING

(Question No. 1774V

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. fs the Minister aware of proposals to extract aggregate for concrete in the vicinity of Tuggeranong in the Australian Capital Territory other than by Farley and Lewers Ltd; if so, what are the names of those involved, and where are the proposed quarrying areas located?
  2. To what extent will the proposed quarries be visible from the Tuggeranong urban area?

Senator. COTTON - The Minister for the Interior has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. lt is understood Ready Mixed Concrete Pty Ltd have proposals tor quarrying in the Sugarloaf Hill area, and Snowy River Sands Pty Ltd have proposals in the Jerrabomberra Creek area. Both proposed locations are in New South Wales. (.2) The proposals being developed by Ready Mixed Concrete Pty Ltd and Snowy River Sands Pty Ltd will not be visible from the Tuggeranong development. The proposal put forward by Farley and Lewers Pty Ltd will be visible ‘ from the Tuggeranong development but parts of the working face would bc hidden by intermediate landform.

page 47

OIL

(Question No. 1775)

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister for National Development, upon notice:

  1. How much of Australia’s oil requirements are met from the Bass Strait oil fields.
  2. When is it expected that local oil production will fully meet Australia’s annual requirements.

Senator COTTON- The Minister for National Development has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. For the 3 months ending 31st October 1971 (the lastest 3 months available), Bass Strait production represented 51 per cent of Australia’s total oil requirements.
  2. Taking into account ‘ proven reserves of crude oil, the facilities installed or planned to be installed to produce from them and the type of crude oil discovered, it is not expected that local oil production will fully meet Australia’s annual requirements, unless further discoveries . arc made.
Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Education and Science has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

  1. The States are responsible as far as their own secondary schools are concerned, for the administration of the funds made available to them under the Commonwealth Science Facilities Programme, within a general programme of proposed expenditure which is submitted to me by each State Minister for Education for my approval. The States themselves decide which of their own secondary schools will receive assistance under the Programme and on the nature, extent and timing of such assistance.
  2. and (3) I am aware from various representations made to me that there has been some public discussion of the advisability of new science facilities being constructed at the present site of the Geelong Technical School. I consider that the Victorian Minister of Education is best placed to make an educational decision on this matter.
Senator GREENWOOD:
LP

– The Minister for Immigration has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

In general, assessment of the qualifications of British migrants in the metal and electrical trades involves no special problems. The position is that experienced officers with suitable industrial backgrounds are employed in Britain by the Department of Immigration to assess the trade qualifications of migrant applicants and to provide a counselling service as to the qualifications necessary for recognition in the metal and electrical trades.

The honourable senator has shown interest in the case of Mr William Etheridge, a British migrant who was offered a position with an engineering firm in Mildura before he left for Australia. Mr Etheridge was classified by the Department of Immigration Technical Advisers in London as a machine setter operator which is not a skilled occupation in terms of the Tradesmen’s Rights Regulation Act 1946-1966.

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– The Minister for Foreign Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The statement referred to does nol identify Sir Hubert Opperman as an Australian High Commissioner and was written in Sir Hubert’s private capacity. This is not considered in any way unethical.

page 47

SCIENCE LABORATORIES

(Question No. 1780) Senator POYSER asked the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

page 47

BRITISH MIGRANTS

(Question No. 1782) Senator MULVIHILL asked the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, upon notice:

What are the details of the apparent problem involving the assessment of the qualifications of British migrants in the metal and electrical trades.

page 47

LAND SALES PROMOTION

(Question No. 1786) Senator POYSER asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice:

Is it ethical for the Australian High Commissioner to Malta, Sir Hubert Opperman, to sponsor the sale of land at Surfer’s Paradise by inserting in a promotion brochure produced by Bruce Small Pty Ltd a 2 page statement supporting the promotion?

page 48

SHIPPING

(Question No. 1787)

Senator MULVIHILL:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Shipping and Transport, upon notice:

Does the Government contemplate a review of the Navigation Act in order to require that all ships on the Australian register have all their repair.- carried out in Australian ship yards.

Senator COTTON- The Minister for Shipping and Transport has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The Navigation Act does not specify where repair work should be carried out, and there is no intention at this stage to include a provision requiring Australian flag vessels to have their entire repair work done on the Australian coast line. This would be impractical, particularly in the case of emergency work on vessels engaged in overseas trade.

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– On 15t.h September 1971. Senator Townley asked Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson as Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science the following question: ls the Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science aware that about half the students in Canada who graduated from universities in May this year have been unable to find suitable employment and that university education in that country is becoming termed the ‘great training robbery”? In view of what has happened in Canada and other Western countries, has the Government any plans to investigate, opportunities for students now at university, or yet to commence university training in Australia, so that they will not be encouraged to study courses for degrees that may be useless to them?

In his reply Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson said that he would refer the question to the Minister for Education and Science for further information. The Minister for Education and Science has now provided me with the following advice: 1 am aware thai there have been some graduates who have experienced difficulties in obtaining appropriate employment. As you will appreciate government, industry and commerce cannot be expected to create jobs to fill particular specialisations. Training in specialist areas does not create a right to a particular job. On the other hand, I do nol believe that we can leave the question of job opportunity for the student alone to resolve.

As I am personally concerned about the employment prospects of university graduates including those with higher degrees, I have asked the Chairman of the Australian Universities Commission to consult with the Department of Labour and National Service at the earliest opportunity with a view lo ascertaining the extent of the problem and possible courses of action to alleviate it.

My colleague the Assistant Minister for Labour and National Service has also provided the following information:

The Department of Labour and National Service, through its youth employment programmes and activities of the Commonwealth Employmem Service, provides special assistance to young persons taking up employment for the first time, and in each of the 160 District Employment Offices of the Commonwealth Employment Service there are officers specially trained to counsel and handle employment problems of young people. These officers regularly visit schools to talk to students and parents about careers and careers opportunities, to screen occupational films, and to arrange visits to employers’ premises and training establishments for those who wish to see the nature of work performed there. They provide information on particular occupations and careers, counsel students and participate in careers nights, careers weeks and other community activities in relation lo employment of young people.

In the year ended 30th .lune 1971. 540,000 people under the age of 2.1 years received employment assistance and counselling from the Commonwealth Employment Service. in view of the increasing numbers of young people undertaking tertiary studies the services provided by the Department were widened early in 1971 when Career Reference Centres were opened in Sydney and Melbourne. These Centres, which are stuffed by experienced officers of the Commonwealth Employment Service, provide in one centrally located office information about employment and employment prospects in professional and sub-professional careers, and other matters relating to careers and the courses of training and studies leading to them Advice and information is available in those Centres to tertiary and intending tertiary students and others. These include parents, careers masters, teachers, officers at tertiary education institutions, and employers.

The Department engages in demand, supply studies in regard to selected professional and technical occupations, and regularly prepares and distributes publications, concerning a wide range of professional and other occupations, which include information on employment prospects. It maintains continuing contacts with Universities. Appointments Boards and other tertiary institutions and regularly reviews employment prospects for graduates and diplomats.

The Department provides a vocational guidance service in all States, particularly tor young people who wish to assess their abilities to undertake various types of employment.

Despite these activities it is not possible to forecast precisely the future employment requirements of sectors of the economy, particularly when university courses lake from 3 to 6 years to complete. Furthermore, it has been the experience of the Department, and of career advisers and appointments boards at the various universities, that not all students will take advice regarding limited career prospects in some professions.

University Appointments Boards have been expressing concern about prospects for employment of (his year’s crop of new graduates. At this stage, the main difficulties have been with ails and science graduates who do not appreciate thai their courses are not vocational and who expect automatically to find employment in the area of their greatest interest. These people can generally be placed in leaching or administration hut often require additional training for this to Ik done.

Senator WRIGHT:
LP

– On 5 th October 1971, Senator McAuIiffe asked me, as Minister representing the Minister for Education and Science, the following question: ls ii a fuel that Melbourne University Council has decided to abolish the diploma course of physical education and that the University will nol accept first year students to the course after next year? In view of a likely leisure crisis as a result of automation and push button techniques in industry in the future, will the Minister intercede to have this important course retained-

In my reply 1 said I would bring the honourable senator’s request to the Minister for consideration.

The Minister for Education and Science has now provided me with the following advice:

As universities are autonomous bodies, a decision to abolish any particular course is the responsibility of the university concerned. In coming to its decision to abolish the present Diploma in Physical Education course, the University of Melbourne was undoubtedly influenced by the views expressed by the Martin Committee, and subsequently endorsed by the Australian Universities Commission which indicated in its Third Report published in 1966 that it proposed to discontinue support for sub-graduate courses in universities.

Honourable senators may be interested to know that, in announcing the decision to discontinue the Diploma in Physical Education course, the University of Melbourne said:

The University of Melbourne Council will set up a Planning Croup to consider the question of a new course to replace the present diploma course in physical education. In considering the replacement course the Planning Group will consult with the University’s Department of Physical Education.

The present Diploma in Physical Education course will be abolished and no students will be admitted to the course after the admission of first year students in 1972.

The output of teachers of physical education probably will not be reduced following the abolition of the diploma course al Melbourne because of the output from the Monash Teachers’ College and the possible out pui of teachers from the Victoria Institute of Colleges.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

On 12th October 1971 Senator Murphy asked me a question without notice about foreign ownership of Australian land, I now provide the following answer:

The control and recording of transfers ot title to freehold or leasehold land is fundamentally the responsibility of the Stales. The Commonwealth’s direct interest is confined to its responsibilities for the Territories.

The Minister for the Interior has provided the following information on overseas investment in land in the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory:

Details of ownership on a basis of nationality are noi held for land in urban areas in either Territory although it is likely that foreign ownership would be a comparatively small proportion of the totals in these areas. Most foreign investments in land is directed to the rural areas and is mainly held under pastoral lease. Information in respect of rural areas in the Territories is as follows:

Australian Capital Territory

Only one lease, of 1,530 acres or 0.6 per cent of the area for grazing or agricultural purposes, is held by overseas interests.

Northern Territory

Pastoral leases in the Northern Territory are granted for a period of 50 years with development and stocking conditions. These lenses are liable to forfeiture for breaches of covenants and cannot be converted to freehold.

Of the 286,648 square miles held under pastoral lease in the Northern Territory, 16.8 per ce.it is held solely by overseas interests, of which British interests hold 9.9 per cent and American 5.7 per cent. A further 8.7 per cent of the area under lease is held by joint Australian and overseas interests, leaving 74.5 per cent of the area held solely by Australian residents.

In the Top End of the Territory (i.e. annual rainfall above 24 inches roughly north of 16” latitude) 27.7 per cent of the 45,500 square miles under pastoral lease is held solely by overseas interests, of which American interests hold 17.1 per cent, Asian 7.3 per cent and British 3.3 per cent. A further 29.1 per cent is held by joint Australian and overseas interests, leaving 43.2 per cent of the area held solely by Australian residents.

In respect of agricultural leases in the Northern Territory only 3 leases comprising about 115 acres or leis than 0.1 per cent of the 203,555 acres under agricultural leasehold, are held by overseas interests.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

On 4th November Senator Davidson asked me a question without notice about international aid. The matters raised by the honourable senator were referred to the Minister for Foreign Affairs who has provided the following information:

The Tasmania n Zone President of the Association of Apex Clubs issued a press release on 3rd November 1971 correcting the report that $16,000 forwarded to the Indian Government for relief purposes was being returned to Australia because of ‘poor organisation’ by the Indian Government.

The press release states that the money referred to was raised by Apex Clubs in Australia for the East Pakistan Tidal Wave Relief. Appeal and consists of trust funds being held in New South Wales by, the Association of Apex Clubs because of the present unsettled conditions in East Pakistan. Legal advice given to Apex indicated that in order to release these funds, they would have to be returned to the individual club’s charity accounts. The money had not left Australia and the Indian Government had not been involved in any way.

The International President of the Association of Apex Clubs has informed the Department of Foreign Affairs that the Apex Club of Hobart had gathered together a quantity of second-hand spectacles and had experienced some difficulty in forwarding them to the Apex Club in Calcutta, but that this problem could have been overcome if a different approach had been adopted.

The Government is keenly aware of its responsibility to ensure that the aid it provides fulfils priority needs and is distributed effectively. Australia’s missions in the recipient countries maintain continuing contact with the authorities in those countries and report regularly on the progress of Australian-sponsored aid activities.

In India, our High Commissioner and his staff have first-hand knowledge of the areas to which Australian aid has been directed and in cooperation with the responsible Indian authorities have been able to ensure that our aid has been put to good use.

Senator COTTON:
LP

– On 1st December 1971 Senator Lillico asked the following question:

I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Industry whether, because importations of grass seed amounting to a claimed S200m a year could play havoc with the Australian industry, the Government will take action to see that the existing tariff protection is enforced. If it is not being enforced now, and because the time of the year when Australian importers order quantities of grass seed from overseas is approaching, will the Government treat this matter as urgent? Will the Government investigate the effect of imports from New Zealand on the Australian industry with a view to taking the action provided under Article 107

The Minister for Trade and Industry has provided the following reply:

As the honourable senator was advised on 23rd November, imports of grass seed have declined each year since 1967-68. Last year, imports totalled 5.2 million lb valued at $1.6m, not $200m as he suggested.

Grass seed in retail packs is subject to import duties at the operative rates of 121 per cent (plus primage 5 per cent), Preferential (including New Zealand), and 30 per cent (plus primage 10 per cent) General. Grass seed in bulk is included in Schedule A of the New Zealand-Australia Free Trade Agreement but also enters Australia dutyfree from all sources under the Australian tariff.

In response to representations made by local industry, the Department of Customs and Excise is currently investigating claims of dumping on the part of New Zealand suppliers. If this investigation shows that imports from New Zealand are at dumped prices and are causing material injury to the. Australian industry the procedures provided for in Article 10 of NAFTA will be initiated.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

– On 10th December Senator Douglas McClelland asked me the following question without notice:

Is he aware that public servants, especially Post Office employees, who will be required to work on Christmas Day and New. Year’s Day of 1972 have been told that because those days fall on a Saturday they will be paid at a time and a half for the Saturday instead of a double time rale for the public holiday. Will the Minister examine this matter as one of urgency lo ensure that those public servants who are required to work on Christmas Day and New Year’s Day, those days being Saturdays, will in fact be paid - at the rale of double time for work on those days?

The Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

The Public Service Board has advised that, on 29th October 197), a letter was forwarded to eleven separate employee organisations in order to provide them with an opportunity to discuss (he proposed arrangements for the forthcoming Christmas/New Year period. The objective was to ensure that the majority view of Staff Associations was known so that appropriate action could be taken.

Those Associations that responded indicated that the holiday arrangements proposed represented the most acceptable alternative available.

The decision that Saturday 25th December and Saturday 1st January 1972 were lo be regarded as ordinary working days was made with a view to providing the greatest benefit to staff from the available holidays. It is to be noted that all staff, including those rostered to work on those days are compensated by the fact that another holiday will be observed in place of Saturday 25 th December and also in place of Saturday 1st January.

The Board advised that, in the circumstances, it was unable lo agree to any alteration lo the proposed holidays.

Senator DAVIDSON:

-(South Australia)- Pursuant to the resolution of the Senate of 29th April 1971, I present the report of the Standing Committee on Education. Science and the Arts relating to teacher education, together with the minutes of evidence and documents submitted to the Committee in evidence. .

Ordered that the report be printed.

Senator DAVIDSON:

– I seek leave to move that the Senate take note of the report.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Prowse) - ls leave granted? There being no objection, leave is granted.

Senator DAVIDSON:

– I move:

Senator O’Byrne:

– They were butchers.

Senator WHEELDON:

– I am not discussing the merits of either Dr Sukarno or General Suharto. What I am saying is that what happened cannot be said to have happened because of the American presence or the Chinese presence or the Russian presence or the presence of anybody eiss. What happened was the result of internal conflict, internal contradictions, within Indonesia itself. This conflict has bien resolved, at least for the time being, in the way in which things stand at the present time.

But we do find one area in which Western powers do exercise strong influence, and (hat is in Africa. As I have already said, I think it would be quite unfair and quite unjust to describe white South Africans, and in particular Afrikaners, as being some sort of representatives of a foreign colonial power. I think they have to be regarded as native South Africans. The fact is that the type of regime which exists in South Africa is a Western white regime, a Western while dictatorship by a minority of the population over the great majority of the population. That situation is even more true in Rhodesia, and it is obviously and palpably true in the case of the Portuguese colonies. In those places no pretence is made that this is some sort of independent Angola or Mozambique. The only pretence that is made is that in fact they are physically pari of Portugal itself. The Portuguese are quite insistent on this. They have signs up in their overseas colonies which read: ‘Here is Portugal’ and Portugal is a pluri-continental country* and things of that nature. This may deceive some people but it certainly does not appear to impress the great majority of the inhabitants of Mozambique or Angola.

The point thai I wish to make is that when we are considering what is happening in the Indian Ocean we should get over the old gunboat ideas which have lasted since the 19th century, that if we want to have some problem solved in the Indian Ocean the way to do it is to call on the Americans to build a base at Cockburn Sound in Western Australia or, as Senator Gair, the leader of the Australian Democratic Labor Party, said, we should hand over the naval bases in Australia to the Japanese. As it happens I think that it is highly unlikely that the Americans or (he Japanese are very anxious to establish bases in Australia at this stage and become involved in some conflict which does not directly concern them. I think also it is even more incorrect to look on the problems which have to be resolved if we are to have peaceful relations with our neighbours in the Indian Ocean as being solely the result of the intervention of major powers, whether they be Britain, the United States, the Soviet Union or China. What we have to do, in our own self interest if for no other reason, is to see what is happening in the Indian Ocean and to try to come to some accommodation and some friendly relations with those people who, whether we like it or not, are our neighbours and will continue to be our neighbours. It is on this aspect that I believe that the total failure of the foreign policy of this Government has been proved. it has been established clearly already for everybody to see that the old techniques and the old ideas of maintaining white rule in non-white countries have failed. The Vietnamese people have established that. They have shown that even the United States, the most powerful country in the world, cannot impose its will on Vietnam. Although the tumult and the shouting and the aerial bombing still have not been stopped it is quite clear what has happened in Vietnam: The Vietnamese people have defeated the United States of America. The same things will happen in Africa and the rest of Asia. Just as the Dutch were driven from Indonesia, just as the British had to leave India, Pakistan, Ceylon, Burma, Malaysia and Singapore, just as they have left Tanzania, Zanzibar, Kenya and Malawi, the Smith regime will have to get out of Rhodesia. The Portu- guese will bc driven out of Angola and Mozambique and their other colonies. One fears that perhaps (here will be some sort of blood bath in South Africa. One hopes that there will be some other settlement, that some of these courageous, humane and far seeing white South Africans who do oppose the present Government in South Africa will meet with some success and that there will be a transformation within that country. But certainly the omens are not very promising. Certainly whatever does happen I think we can all rest assured that the existing Government in South Africa and the existing form of regime in South Africa is doomed to failure.

How does Australia comport itself in these situations? We have seen an example of this just recently. In fact, only this afternoon when the Minister for Works, Senator Wright, was asked a question about the imprisonment of Mr Garfield Todd and Miss Judith Todd, he informed us that the Government’s view was that nothing should be done about this, presumably because of the Pearce Commission being. in Rhodesia. Why this is a reason for nothing being done about, the imprisonment, solitary confinement and forced feeding of a young woman who for quite a long time was resident in this country, I am completely unable to understand. But I think the purport of this would be quite obvious to Africans, to people who are opposed to colonialism, to people who are opposed to the present regime in Rhodesia. The reason why people like Senator Wright say this sort of thing is that they are not sympathetic with those people who are in gaol; their real sympathies are with the Smith Government. That is where their sympathies lie. If the Australian Government has some concern for this part of the world, if it has some concern for humanity and if it has some concern for Australia’s future relations with its neighbours in the Indian Ocean area it should exercise very strong pressure on the British Government to ensure that any settlement which is reached in Rhodesia is a settlement which guarantees constitutionally the rights of the overwhelming mass of the Rhodesian people - the non-whites - to be able to form their own government. But I have seen no evidence of such concern.

The Australian Government’s attitude towards South Africa is precisely the same. 1 know that trade is important’ and that quite often one has to engage in trade’ with countries with whose governments one docs not agree. I do not object to that. An intensive drive in being made in South Africa at present by the Australian Government to increase trade with that country. It is very interesting to note - I think this is really most significant - that in the material which is issued by the Austraiian Government concerning trading possibilities with South Africa all the assumptions of the South African Government, even the vocabulary of that Government, are accepted by the Australian Government. For example, official Australian Government publications refer to the African people of South Africa as the Bantu. This South African white racist expression which is used to describe 65 per cent of the South African population - the Africans - is an expression which is just as insulting to the Africans of South Africa as the expressions ‘nigger’ or ‘boong’; yet we find that it is used in official Australian Government documents, ls it any wonder that when incidents occur such as that which took place at the recent Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference in Canberra,” representatives of countries such as Zambia, Uganda and Tanzania, are inclined to believe the worst in the event of any misunderstanding between Australia and African countries.

The proposition 1 wish to put to the Senate, and I do not wish to speak at great length on it, is that it is time we forgot about the stories of gunboats of foreign powers coming into the Indian Ocean; that it is time we had a look at the peoples of the Indian Ocean themselves; that it is time we had a look at our immigration policy; that it is time we had a look at our aid programme; that it is time we had a look at the policies we adopt on colonialism in South Africa, Rhodesia and the Portuguese colonies; that it is time we ceased to find in reports of the United Nations General Assembly or in conferences which take place elsewhere that there is a hard core of three or four countries such as South Africa, Portugal and Australia supporting the position of the South Africans and the Portuguese. Constantly we are placed in the position of appearing to support those countries, and I believe the Australian Government in fact does support them. We have as yet had no statement whatsoever of any significance from any responsible member of the Government on the present situation in India and Bangla Desh. At. the present time - 1 suppose it. is understandable after a period of great violence - ‘there appears to be yet more violence being exerted by the majority Bengali population of Bangla Desh against the minority non-Bengalis - in particular the Bihari people. No statement has been made on this matter by the Australian Government. We were nol consulted in relation to anything thai happened in India or Pakistan and we did not offer any intelligible views on what happened in India or Pakistan. Great changes took place without Australia playing any role whatsoever.

Mr President, I take the debate on (he tabling of this report as the opportunity for submitting that if we are lo survive with any respect from our neighbours and if we are to retain any reasonable relations with our neighbours we must show that we are just as concerned as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and China appear to be about the interests of the great ‘ masses of people in this area who have suffered tremendous oppression througho.it the centuries and who continue to suffer oppression. I believe that in the near future there will he many more episodes such as that which took place in India and Pakistan, i believe that they are going to take place because of the problems of over-population, economic underdevelopment and the continuance of colonialism in the area. Australia will have to confront these issues. Australia should be playing an important role in ensuring that these issues are resolved peacefully. They will not be. resolved by talking about building new naval bases, by complaining about a few Russian trawlers wandering around Mauritius or by wondering what China is going to do next. lt is interesting to note - I will conclude by making some observations about this matter - that Australia has again been placed in a ludicrous position as a result of the present visit to China by President Nixon because, although I have already said that 1 believe the problems of the Indian Ocean area will be in the main resolved by the people who live in that area, there cannot be any doubt but that the relationships between the major powers are going to play a very important role. One can hardly find words to comment on the ludicrous situation in which Australia has now been placed. While on the one hand the Pope is offering prayers for the success of President Nixon’s visit to Peking and, at the other extreme, both India and the Soviet Union are expressing concern about the possibility of a new alliance between China and the United States of America, we can get no intelligible statement whatsoever from this Government apart from the usual old anti-Communist claptrap it has been serving up for about 25 years that everything which is going on is the part of some Red plot. That sort of thing may well have been sufficient to frighten a lot of innocent people into voting for the Liberal Party at a number of tire federal elections from 1949 onwards, but I think the Government can be assured that not only is it not going to work this time but also that, it is no responsible way to deal with the real problems which confront this country.

I make the appeal that in discussing the report which is before the Senate on the Indian Ocean region we do not get back to the nonsense about the Russians coming down to get us or the Chinese coming down to get us. We must look at the very real problems of Africa and this part of Asia and explain to ourselves and to the rest of the world what we intend to do with regard to the great movements which are taking place at present among the people of the countries surrounding the Indian Ocean.

Senator Wriedt:

– From what is the honourable senator quoting?

Senator CARRICK:

– From Admiral Peek’s statement to all honourable senators and members of the House of Represen tatives in the Opposition party room. These words were heard by honourable senators from both sides of the chamber.

He said:

I should like to indicate the capabilities, of the Soviet. Navy, both in the present situation of relative peace - and in a possible wartime situation.

First in today’s world, the Soviet Navy first contributes to the strategic deterrent potential of the Soviet Union. Second, is capable of guarding the maritime frontiers of the Soviet Union from surprise attack. Third, of establishing a Soviet presence in areas where, until now, it has been minimal or non-existent - to act as a force in being capable of reacting to any possible hostile actions by other forces. And finally of continuing lo improve the readiness of their naval forces.

In a wartime situation I believe thai the Soviet Navy, and in particular its submarine force has - at the present time - a capability .simultaneously.

First, to conduct submarine launched ballistic missile operations against virtually any maritime nation in the world.

Second, to defend the Soviet homeland against United Stales and any allied strike forces;

Third, to conduct an extensive anti-shipping campaign;

And finally, to carry out what was for years their primary mission, of supporting the operations of the Red Army.

Most importantly, 1 believe the Soviets can maintain at least the first 3 of these capabilities in a deployed ready status almost indefinitely.

Sitting suspended from 5.45 to 8 p.m.

Senator CARRICK:

– Immediately prior to the suspension of the sitting for dinner I had brought forward substantial evidence to establish that the existing Soviet navy is an all-ocean navy, the largest in the world and one capable, on evidence, of indefinitely sustaining its role in all the oceans of the world. Therefore it can, of course, sustain its role indefinitely in the Indian Ocean. This point must be grasped. When this report was tabled originally members of the Labor Party mentioned, that there was no threat by the Russian navy in terms of its existence in the Indian Ocean. The report refers to the surface fleet, to its existing presence, and says that there is no immediate military threat. On the other hand it is important to note that Admiral Peek makes the point in these words:

I do not consider this Soviet challenge merely a military threat.

I refer to the challenge in the all-ocean sense. He continued:

It is a challenge throughout the entire spectrum of maritime activity as well as in the political, economic and psychological arenas of international competition.

If a navy disposed throughout the oceans of the world is not in fact a threat then obviously it is not doing its job. The whole disposition of mm ary forces is to achieve duress without actual shooting - to exert the pressure of influence. Lest it be thought that I am rattling a sword and picking out permanent enemies let me make this perfectly clear: I sought merely to establish the existing mili’ary strengths of various nations, various world powers, operative in the Indian Ocean. 1 hope that in Russia and China we will see not permanent enemies but permanent friends. But to put these things in perspective and against the background that one hopes that President Nixon will achieve great steps towards world peace, it would be wrong if we did not understand the nature of the powers involved. 1 invite the Senate to consider one simple test. I put it this way: The awesome totality of the Chinese dictatorship as it exists today Gan be measured by one test. Several months ugo the Deputy Premier of China, Lin Piao, the heir apparent to the leadership of some 800 million people, disappeared. The test of that totality of dictatorship is that the leader of China did not think it necessary to offer any explanation to the world or to the people of China on the disappearance of Lin Piao. The only overt action taken has been the recall of the booklets containing the thoughts of Mao, the removal of any reference to Lin Piao, and their re-issue. I think it is important, with all the goodwill in the world, that we recognise the nature of the powers involved in this part of the world, particularly as China is building its own military presence.

The important phrase in the ‘Report on the Indian Ocean Region’ appears at page 7 where this is stated:

Although it is nol possible to predict with certainty that all the great powers will maintain ‘ their interest in the area indefinitely, it does not seem likely that the countries in the region, whatever their views, will be able to prevent une Indian Ocean developing into an area of great power influence a:,.d involvement.

That is the key lo the defence recommendations, which are some 7 of the 17 recommendations. I will refer to them. The first is:

Thai the naval and air facilities al Cockburn Sound and Learmonth in Western Australia should be established and become operational as soon as possible for the protection of Australia’s west. 1 remind the Senate that the Commonwealth Cabinet acted yesterday with regard to implementing the second stage of Cockburn Sound. The second recommendation is:

That the facilities at Cockburn Sound should be made available to friendly powers under mutually agreed arrangements.

The third recommendation states:

That the practicability of the permanent stationing of units of the Australian navy at Cockburn Sound should be considered as of the utmost importance.

The fourth recommendation is as follows:

That currently, by mutual agreement with countries concerned, Australian forces are stationed on the Malaysia-Singapore area and are likely to continue to do so in the foreseeable future: Also, it is possible that oilier forward commitments might be made ul sonic future time. However, long-range defence planning cannot ignore the possibility of all forces being stationed in Australia. The Committee, therefore, recommends the strengthening of the defence capability of our northern, western and south-western shores.

The fifth recommendation is:

That aerial reconnaissance by the RAAF be stepped up as an indication of Australia’s interest in the current activities taking place in the Indian Ocean.

The sixth reads:

That serious consideration be given to up-dating the facilities of the Cocos (Keeling) Islands to provide for RAAF reconnaissance aircraft in support of recommendation (15).

Recommendation 15 is the fifth recommendation I read. The seventh recommendation is:

That Australia should seel* to achieve reciprocal naval and air access to Indian Ocean island staging areas now in control of Britain.

Those defence recommendations arc an indication of the importance of a defence role for Australia which the Committee believes we should pursue in the Indian Ocean area. But we cannot merely take those in a vacuum. We must look at them in terms of Australia’s overall defence commitment. We must look not only just to our west coast hi>< <o the east and west coasts together. For example, the ANZUS treaty, the 5-power pack and SEATO are all part of the defence symphony aimed at creating peace and stability in the area.

Lest members of the Opposition feel that I am seeking aggression, that I am seeking to put aggressive tags on either Russia or China, may I refer to the thoughts of the Labor Party as set out in its little blue book entitled ‘Australian Labor Party - Platform, Constitution and Rules’. At page 34 these words appear:

Labor will seek to end all foreign military presence in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Poland. Czechoslovakia, Hungary and East and West Germany. All such occupations represent either a jockeying for strategic positions for a prospective world war, thereby increasing the likelihood of such a war; or a determination lo impose on other people ideologies and systems of government which they do not want.

In those words I think the Labor Party admits the implied military threat and the implied threat of war on the part of 2 of the nations that I have mentioned. I remind the Senate that Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and East Germany are behind the Russian Tran Curtain, and of course Cambodia, Laos and, to an extent. North Vietnam are under the influence of China.

As we look at the whole question of the defence capacity of Australia, we see that the great difference between the Opposition and ourselves is not only the failure of the Opposition to admit that there are possible threats to peace but the desire of the Opposition to move towards a form of non-alignment not only in the West but in the East. The ANZUS pact, which the Government parties view as the key to the basic security of this country, is now seen by the Labor Party as being no longer a military pact but as some form of human rights document, some form of platitudinous words rather than effective deeds. The Australian Labor Party used to say that the alliance with the United States of America and New Zealand was of crucial importance, was essential and must continue. In the ‘Platform, Constitution and Rules’ of the Australian Labor Party, this reference is made lo the ANZUS Treaty:

The Labor Parly seeks close and continuing cooperation with the people of the United Slates and New Zealand lo make the ANZUS Treaty an instrument for justice and peace and political, social and economic advancement in the Pacific area.

No mention at all is made of military alliances. If one seeks to understand why this policy was changed, one can look lo page 10 of the ‘Australian Left Review* of May 1971. Dr Jim Cairns, the Labor spokesman, was questioned. This question was asked:

What prospects are there for the ALP left wing to win the leadership of the ALP federally and what policy differences do you think would be likely to eventuate if this occurred?

Dr Cairns answered:

The ALP left wing has a very good chance of winning Federal Conference and Executive leadership of the ALP.

Among the changes in policy this will bring are: (I.) An end lo the principle that the United Slates alliance is crucial, and (2.) A beginning of support for the ‘human rights’ revolution around the world most often expressed in the national liberation movements.

Senator CARRICK:

– it is from page 10 of the ‘Australian Left Review’ of May 1971. When confronted by the Press with the thought that the ANZUS Treaty would be wiped out by the Conference, Mr Whitlam is quoted as responding:

It would put an intolerable burden on me if we change this after 20 years.

But, nevertheless, these changes are occurring. The movement is to non-alignment and away from the American alliance. I instance the opposition to the North West Cape facility, so vital in terms of submarine warfare, the opposition to Australia’s stationing its forces abroad and, indeed, the suggestion being made by Labor leaders that the only terms on which we might station our forces abroad would be those under which the United Nations gave us permission to do so. That would mean that we would be subject to the veto of Russia and China as to how we should dispose our forces. That is Labor policy as expressed these days.

I believe that the report which is now before us has done a valuable service to the Parliament, lt has drawn together the current events in the Indian Ocean. Since its writing, the East Pakistan war has hotted up. M!ore importantly, we have begun to see something of the emergence of the first stages of the fruits of the Treaty of Peace. Friendship and Co-operation between the Soviet Union and the Republic of India. That treaty was signed on 9th August 1971. We saw a speedy end to the war in East Pakistan. We saw the growing signs of Russian involvement in the Indian Ocean, particularly the speedy movement of Russian vsesels, and indeed of American vessels, into that area. The Russian navy is disposed throughout the various oceans for quick movement from one to the other. Considerable forces are regularly disposed on the west coast of Africa, easily available quickly to swing into the Indian Ocean.

This is the blueprint as we see it now. This is the blueprint and, in another response, France has indicated that it proposes to send 5, or is it 6, of its naval vessels for a 3-months stationing in the Indian Ocean. Clearly that ocean is becoming all-important. I remind the Senate that, at the beginning of my speech, I drew attention to the importance of the seaway. It is important to Japan. It has importance for trade with Europe. It is of importance to the Russians and, prospectively, to China.

Whilst we must work strenuously for peace and whilst we must work against the thought of permanent enemies, it is futile not to understand and not to take an effective response to the movements of others around us. It is quite clear that the 17 recommendations in this document deserve the. most close study. I commend those recommendations, particularly the final 7 recommendations, for implementation.

Senator O’BYRNE:

– I am just giving illustrations. 1 believe that I have the right to do this because this is a very wideranging report. 1 am speaking about countries that ure involved with the Indian Ocean. I think I should be allowed a few minutes in which to make remarks about each of those countries. I am relating my remarks now to a country that is not shown on the map in the report. The country of which I am speaking is covered on the map by a printed block but it is one of the countries involved in Indian Ocean strategy. I refer to the recent monetary manipulation by which the Japanese are able to buy, with a revalued yen, our wool which is weighed now in kilos. If the Government were to make public the difference between the price Japan is paying per kilo for our wool with the revalued yen, and the price per pound that it paid with the yen on its previous basis, we would find that the wool grower was being gypped as he always has been. I should like to see an analysis of the situation.

Senator O’BYRNE:

– How much was it before?

Senator O’BYRNE:

– -The maximum was 36c. I thought 1 might be able to get Senator Young to say a word or two in relation to that. 1 would have preferred this report to have been prepared along more constructive lines. I would have liked more impetus to have been given to the only way of solving these problems - by supporting the United Nations in achieving international disarmament. The more fear that we put into the minds of the Australian people by reports such as this - the more we pander to those who have a self-interest in expanding and perpetuating the idea that international problems can be solved by war, the more troubles we will bring on our country. Surely we must have learned the lesson that you cannot solve your problems by war. Anyone who has supported the Government in sending our boys to be burned, maimed and kilted in Vietnam surely must have qualms of conscience now and surely must know that the whole thing has been a failure and that noone can win modern wars. After every war the parties must get round the table and discuss the situation. Yet we have before us a report which is accentuating the idea of war and virtually glorifying it.

The report claims that we have to match whatever the Soviet Union is doing in the Indian Ocean. Senator Carrick quoted chapter and verse about Jane’s ships, submarines and so on. Of course the Soviet Union has ships, submarines and so on but it is our fault that it has them. We have virtually forced the Soviet Union to become a super-power by reason of our foreign policy, by reason of United States foreign policy and by reason of British foreign policy which believed that the Soviet Union must be matched. We display a fanatacism in our belief that we have the right - whoever gave us the right, 1 do not know - to say that the Soviet system must not prevail and that our system must prevail. That is just not on. We have to learn to live and let live. We have to find some level of compromise. We have to find a way of getting round the table to discuss things before the war rather than after it. Many difficulties would be overcome if only people would come to that way of thinking.

I believe that the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs has adopted a negative attitude in claiming that Australia has to match, or find others to match, the Soviet presence in the Indian Ocean. The Soviet Union has as much right to the oceans of the world as we have. Whatever strategy it may adopt in exercising that right it can have consequences for good or for ill. . It may bring about a round table conference which may result in disarmament. It may bring back the spirit of the United Nations which, in my view, is the forum in which these problems should be discussed and possibly resolved. If we adopt the attitude that anything the Soviet Union can do we can do better, or if we try to keep up with the Joneses, we will impoverish ourselves and the country that we imagine to be our opponent. Great problems confront us today. We should strive to improve the wellbeing of people wherever they live in the world. We should use our resources, our technology and the potential for education throughout the world. We should widen man’s horizons and increase his dignity. Those are the positive objectives for which we should strive. We should abandon the negative objective of war.

The debate on this report presents an opportunity for the Senate to think very deeply about what we are doing when we imagine that we can match the Soviet Union and, if necessary, even go to war with the Soviet Union to determine which is the superior power in the Indian Ocean. Other powers will want to patrol the oceans of the world and we will not be able to throw out a challenge to them. We must find a different way of solving the problem. As I mentioned previously, our neighbours are counted in hundreds of millions. Between 1,000 million and 1,500 million of our neighbours are underprivileged. We will not have many friends among them if we adopt a beligerent attitude. We must take the view that they have to live wilh us and we have to live with them. We certainly will not be able to do that by rattling the sabre. Virtually, that is what Senator Carrick’s speech was all about. He said that anything the Soviet Union can do we can do better.

I do not agree with the terms of the report. I think that the report is negative. The thinking of people throughout the world is much more constructive than that expressed in this report. Certainly the Committee is out of touch with reality because in this day and age no-one will win the next war.

Senator Byrne:

– The Joint Committee has members from all political parties.

Senator GAIR:

– Yes. As a joint committee, it represents all political parties. That makes it all the more gratifying for us to know that at last our policy has been recognised as being the right one. If we accept what Senator 0’Byrne preached tonight we would continue as we did prior to the Second World War; we would do nothing for the defence of this country. The Menzies Government did very little during the years prior to the war. Ten months before the Japanese entered the war the Leader of the Labor Party, the late Mr John Curtin, said that we were spending too much on defence. As I have said here before - it is worth repeating - I am sure that Mr John Curtin, who played a very significant and very honourable role as Prime Minister of Australia during those war years, must have regretted his lack of vision when he was Leader of the Opposition and his complaint about what we were spending on defence. He realised what little we had when volunteers in Queensland were training with broomsticks because there were not sufficient rifles for all. We had very little for the defence of this country. Realising that Britain had more on its plate than it could handle and that it could not be expected to come to our aid, he was compelled to appeal to America. Surely we do nol want a repetition of that. Surely we do not want to be placed in a position similar to the one in which we were placed in 1940-41. It is imperative that, in the interests of Australia and its people, we as a responsible parliament should not lose time-

Senator GAIR:

– As Senator Carrick said several times during his speech, we have no permanent, enemies or permanent allies. No-one can tell me that we can rely on any ally, but at least we should be defending this country against anyone who is likely to invade it. We do not know who our allies are. In the First World War Japan was an ally of Britain and Australia and, indeed, convoyed our troops from our shores to the other side of the world. Italy was an ally in the First World War. Both those countries were opposed to us in the Second World War. Many years ago someone said that we have no permanent allies but that we have permanent issues and interests. The Democratic Labor Party’s interest is Australia’s interests, the interests of its people and the defence of this country.

Part F of the report draws attention to Australia’s vital interest in the Indian Ocean region. We are reminded, and very timely too, that 40 per cent of Australia’s exports and 50 per cent of our imports are transported across this ocean. The security of trade, communications and civil air routes into Australia depend on free access through the Indian Ocean. Free access is also vital in the maintenance and security of the military routes, communications and staging facilities necessary for Australia’s defence. The report also speaks of Australia’s further interest in the Indian Ocean as the protection of our shores and the continental shelf together with the territories of Cocos (Keeling) Islands and Christmas Island, the maintenance of a continuing defence and economic stabilising effect in Malaysia and Singapore, and the stability of the Indian Ocean generally. There is an enormous concern with the Indian Ocean. The sub-committee pointed out what we in the Democratic Labor Party have been pointing out repeatedly over the years. I quote from page 55 of the report:

  1. . a number of recent occurrences in the Indian Ocean and areas of our immediate concern which warrant a reappraisal of the traditional Australian altitude.

What are these occurrences to which the report refers? They arc the major British withdrawal of forces cast of the Suez, extension of the Russian naval and economic influence in the Indian Ocean and its surrounds, the uncertainty of the intentions of the United States in the area, an anticipated large increase in exports of minerals from Western Australia, and the extension in the ocean of the influence of great powers whose policies and ideologies differ from our own. Might I add that these occurrences to which the report refers no: only justify Australia’s increased concern about the Indian Ocean but also should spur the nation to hasten the maximum possible degree of self-reliant defence preparedness. It has been a stock in trade with the Australian Labor Party in all of its reactions to any reference to a Russian presence in the Indian Ocean to laugh off any suggestion of the Russian presence at all.

Senator O’Byrne went to great pains to tell us that all countries enjoy the right to send their respective navies into the oceans of the world. We are not unmindful of that; but Russian history shows us (hat it has never sent its navy to an ocean in the interests of the countries contiguous to the ocean it visits. The Australian Labor Party suggests that all such talk is fanciful and alarmist and that no nation in its right mind would take it seriously. Senator Wheeldon said with great drama: ‘The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!’ or ‘The Red Chinese are coming, the Red Chinese are coming!’ We do not know who is coming but we will be more comfortable if we have some adequate defences for this country. We will not be concerned so much about who comes if we are ready to meet them. But if we follow ALP policy we will do nothing at all and will have to be prepared to hand over this country to any of the members of the Communist bloc who are strong enough and big enough to take us. This will happen unless we do something about it. Unless I am mistaken, it was Mr Morrison, M.P., whom the ALP presented as an authority on foreign affairs. I do not know why. When 1 was in Malaysia last year i inquired as to his standing in that country. He was never regarded as a diplomat or a great foreign affairs authority.

The PRESIDENT:

- Senator Gair is entitled to make a reference to a member in another place and Senator Murphy is entitled to raise a point of order if it is offensive, but 1 do not consider at this stage that any remark made by Senator Gair has been offensive.

Senator GAIR:

– It is not a persona] attack at all. What 1 am attempting to do is to debunk this idea that Mr Morrison, M.P., is an authority on foreign affairs and that he is one of Australia’s great diplomats. I questioned a cross section of the people regarding his capacity and his performance .in Malaysia and 1 was told that he did a lot to help them’ to form surf life saving clubs. That is very good work, but beyond that they credited him with nothing in the field of diplomacy or in the matter of foreign affairs. My aim is to try to dispel the idea that credit is due to him. Why the Australian Labor Party continues to represent him to the public as an authority in this connection I do not know. He was Deputy Chairman of this Committee. I understand that some information was leaked to the Press regarding the testimony of one of the witnesses who gave evidence before the Committee. It was to the effect that the Russian presence was minimal and not a matter of concern.

What are the facts? Only last week France, whose interests in the area are very much less than those of Australia, announced that it intended to place a naval squadron in the ocean to counterbalance the Russian naval strength. The Committee’s report, which is now under debate, docs dismiss for the present the prospect that the Soviet naval presence represents a direct threat to Australia’s defence security unless in the situation of general war. The concern of the Australian Democratic Labor Party about Russia’s presence in the Indian Ocean is not based at this stage on the view either that we are at present likely to be brought directly under military attack, but the Russian presence does suggest other possibilities.

On page 57 the report notes that there exists a sense of unease and uncertainty created in the area by the spreading Russian influence and action. It states further on page 57 that there is a danger that Australia by her complacency in relying on the United States, Great Britain and Japan for her trade and defence is playing into the Soviet hands without considering the Soviet presence. I fully agree with the view expressed in the report that Russia seeks to woo the non-aligned nations in this region. Her presence is an attempt to spread her political, economic and military influence In the region at the expense of the United Slates, Britain and Communist China. The report goes on to note the possibility that, after United States and British withdrawals, countries and areas in the regions may turn more towards Russia and/or Communist China than towards Australia which today they consider to be only good friends but economically and militarily stronger than themselves.

While it is not possible, nor is it my intention, to deal in depth with all the aspects of the Committee’s report - it is some 70 pages long - I wish to refer briefly to the practical steps and recommendations which state the consequences in terms of Australia’s defence which arise from the Russian naval presence. On page 63 of the report the Committee expressed this view:

Australia as an island continent must place a large responsibility on the forward defence role of the navy, and air force. Australia’s naval and air strength is stationed on the eastern and .northern sections of the continent, leaving our western flank relatively unprotected. This is a situation which is becoming more apparent with the increased activity taking place in the Indian Ocean and the reducing role of the British forces in that area.

Even though this merely stresses the obvious, and something which the Democratic Labor Party has been saying for many years. Parliament should be grateful to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for spelling out so clearly this fact of life for the Australian people.

The report concludes with a series of 17 recommendations. The Democratic Labor

Party believes that all of them deserve the closest examination by the Government, but some in particular are of immense importance. In recommendation 1 the report urges that Australia should follow a policy that demonstrates our interest in reducing tensions and conflicts in the region and. where it is in Australia’s national interests, to join with other nations in the region to help achieve this aim. That recommendation simply urges the development of a Pacific economic and defence community, which my Party urged, advocated and propagated in 1958. I would particularly urge upon the Government recommendations 1.1, 12 and 13 of the Committee’s report. Recommendation 11 states that the naval and air facilities at Cockburn Sound and Learmonth in Western Australia should be established and become operational as soon as possible for the protection of Australia’s west. Recommendation 12 states that the facilities at Cockburn Sound should be made available to friendly powers under mutually agreed arrangements. Recommendation 13 states that the practicability of the permanent stationing of units of the Australian Navy at Cockburn Sound should be considered as of the utmost importance. Australia must be able to demonstrate its naval capacity to protect Australian shores and the continental shelf.

On behalf of the Democratic Labor Party, I again commend the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for the scope, depth and detail with which it has considered the consequences for Australia’s security of the growing Soviet naval presence in the Indian Ocean. 1 believe that the report completely vindicates the policy of my Party and the concern it has about the Indian Ocean. I shall watch with interest the Government’s reaction to the report. My Party wants action and not words. It is sick of repeated assurances. How many naval ships of a suitable type does the Government propose to construct for stationing in Cockburn Sound? How soon can they be expected to be in service in the Indian Ocean? Will the Government purchase them abroad if home construction is too slow or costly? Those are the vital matters raised in the report. I trust that the Government will give speedy answers to those questions.

What we need is a government which is prepared to defend Australia and not just lo talk about the defence of Australia. For goodness sake, do not allow ourselves to drift into the position in which we found ourselves in 1941. Let us be practical and show commonsense. To say that we are not as keen about world peace as those who do not want to do anything in this connection is wrong. The best way to ensure peace for this country is to prepare lo defend it. Those members of the Australian Labor Party who are content to go along believing that this country will never be faced with a potential invader are just burying their heads in the sand. If their ideas and policies are adopted by the government of this country they will find if they live long enough a repetition of the conditions which obtained when John Curtin took over the affairs of this country in 1941. He found that Australia had no defences. He had to rely on the United States of America for assistance. We have been depending on others for too long. We talk about the development and potential of our great young country and yet if we subscribe to the views of the Australian Labor Party on the subject of defence we indicate that all the things that have been achieved over the years matter very little to us and that we are content, prepared and willing to hand them all over to anyone who is prepared to challenge the continuation of a democracy in Australia. 1 only hope that the Government will give effect to the recommendations contained in the report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and show the people of Australia that it is conscious of the necessity to do something under this very vital heading. We talk about the need for improving our social services. I am all for that. But social service measures will not be worth the paper on which they are written - not worth a damn - if we are not prepared to defend our country to the limit of our capacity. Furthermore, 1 believe that if we do something for ourselves we will be more likely to receive the support and assistance of other nations in the world. If we do nothing we are likely to be left to languish in the wreckage caused by our own shortcomings, our own lack of vision and our own lack of resolution to preserve for the future generations of Australians democracy that you, Mr President, and I have enjoyed.

Senator Primmer:

– But God was on our side.

Senator MURPHY:

– Yes. But we know better than this. We know that in the course of international affairs, as in the course of human affairs, one side is not always right and one side is not always wrong. In many cases the trouble is due to lack of communication and understanding between peoples and nations. If we want to set about dealing with these tensions and conflicts, for goodness sake let a young country like Australia start speaking with such countries as the Soviet Union and China. Let us get down to some sensible, normal relations. This may lead the way to a dissipation of the fears expressed about presences here and presences there. Nothing could do more good for the world than an increase in communication and understanding. My counsel would be that that part at least of this report ought to be adopted, that the role of Australia ought to be to endeavour to reduce the tensions and conflicts in the Indian Ocean region and generally to assist in its economic development. But let us not leave it at that region; let us extend it to all parts of the world. Let that be the guideline of our policy towards all nations. So far as the major matter, apparently, covered by this report is Australia’s relations with the Soviet Union, let that be the guideline for our dealings with that country.

I do not propose to deal further with this report because there are other honourable senators who wish to speak. 1 suggest that the Senate ought to consider whether it should rely upon its own committee for reports because, as we know, the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs is not a truly parliamentary committee. I do not want to rake over the old question as to whether our Party should be involved on the Joint Committee but we have in the Senate an all-party committee on foreign affairs and defence which has wider powers. It does not have the circumscriptions that the Joint Committee has and I, for one, would suggest that real consideration be given by the Senate to enlarging the Senate Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. Perhaps our members who are on the Joint Committee could find a place on an enlarged Senate standing committee which would be able to report directly to the Senate without the inhibitions which may be placed upon the Joint Committee by some Government Ministers.

Senator Byrne:

– It also shows the tremendous value of parliamentary committees, docs it not?

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:

– 1 go along with that statement. Historically, 1 am afraid that Australia has shown little interest in developments in the Indian Ocean. We can no longer stand for this attitude. 1 believe that we must take action. The Indian Ocean is as much a part of the total environment as is the immediate north of this country or the Pacific Ocean area. We cannot ignore it. With the growing development of our natural resources in Western Australia, we must beware at all times that these resources are nol threatened in any way. A large proportion of our trade crosses the Indian Ocean. We must be concerned that our trade routes are not threatened.

The report identifies substantial trade, aid, political and defence interests in the Indian Ocean. It recommends certain initiatives on our part to protect these interests. I must say at the outset that many recommendations by the Committee are already under study by the Government or are in the process of being implemented. Indeed, the Government would be failing in its responsibility if il had not been conscious of the many political and economic influences in the area and the possible political implications of the increasing pressure of the Russians in the Indian Ocean. But while we must be conscious of our need for growing interest in developments, we must not be unreal in our approach to these matters. Senator Wheeldon said that we must forget gunboat diplomacy and a few fishing boats in our waters–

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP; NCP from May 1975

-BROCKMAN- All right. I make that point. I agree to the extent that I could not see any immediate threat to the integrity of Australia’s mainland by Soviet deployment in the entire region, or indeed to our areas of deployment. Bui J would suggest that it would be most prudent for the Government to watch changing circumstances as they arise to ensure that our interests in the area are safeguarded. Our own interests are identifiable also with those of many countries in the area with which we have developed already close and friendly relations. We would wish that these relationships continued to be maintained and developed. Our future activities and interests in trade, aid programmes, cultural exchanges and defence will unquestionably have a bearing on these relationships.

The Government has followed a course of discussions between our allies on matters of common interest. As honourable senators will be aware the Prime Minister (Mr McMahon) during a visit overseas last year discussed the position of the Indian Ocean both in England and in the United States of America. Discussions along these lines are continuing. While it is clear that Britain intends to retain a military presence in the South East Asian and Indian Ocean areas, it is also true that this presence is much reduced from earlier days. This places on us a greater onus to become as self sufficient within our own resources as we can, and as soon as we can. This is not to deny that we cannot, still look to powerful friends for aid if the need arises but this places a direct responsibility on us to be in a position to develop our own strength.

As I said earlier the Government recognises that we have a direct interest in the continued security of the Indian Ocean area and in our important sea and air lines of communication, both strategic and com mercial, there. In addition we have in our island territories in the Indian Ocean, the Cocos Islands which have a special significance as the Committee has probably observed. It is in our interest to demon-, strate our concern and our military capacity to sustain a security role. With this in mind the Government has already taken steps to build up the defence infrastructure in the west and north west Australia. Let me deal first with Learmonth. The report recommends that air facilities al Learmonth should be established and become operational as soon as possible. As honourable senators will be aware the Government announced a major re-activation programme for the Learmonth base in 1970. This work has been pressed on with the utmost speed and it is expected thai the airstrip will be ready for operational use towards the end of this year and that all work will be completed by December 1973. The runway is being extended to 10,000 ft and taxiways and aprons are being constructed. Accommodation for personnel and their essential services such as electrical reticulation are being provided in this programme. The total cost is estimated at $12. 5m. The Government recognises the value of increased surveillance capability in the eastern Indian Ocean.

Royal Australian Air Force long range patrol activity has been extended and coordination in patrol activity in the area with our allies is being developed. Our Orion aircraft can operate from Learmonth base and with its wide radius of operation gives us a flexibility and mobility of the highest order. Great areas of the sea can be covered quickly and economically both in manpower and total allocated resources. Response time is quick and contact can be made with unidentified shipping or aircraft at short notice. Operating out from Darwin, which can also be used for these activities or from Pearce from which surveillance exercises have recently been carried out, the radius of action for maritime surveillance or reconnaissance can be extended from the Philipines to Mauritius. I must also mention that if the need should arise all aircraft in the Royal Australian Air Force inventory including the FI I lc can operate out of Learmonth base when the work there is completed. I cannot emphasise too strongly that the Government’s decision to update this base has given us a focal point of response over the whole of the Indian Ocean. The Committee has also recommended that consideration be given to updating the facilities on Cocos Island. The RAAF, as well as our allies, is at present using Cocos facilities for long range maritime patrols. We recognise the strategic importance of Cocos and of its airfield facilities. These will be maintained.

The report also recommends that the naval facilities at Cockburn Sound in Western Australia should become operational as soon as possible. Work on the initial stage of the Cockburn development - the construction of the causeway - is ahead of schedule and now half finished. It is expected that this part of the development, with associated engineering services, will be completed by the end of 1973. When the entire facility is finished, which the Government expects will be by 1975, it will provide facilities capable of supporting 4 escort vessels and 3 submarines for up to a year. Planning is also under way for the permanent stationing of naval units in Western Australia when the Cockburn facility is developed. The Committee has also recommended that these facilities should be made available to friendly powers under mutually agreed arrangements. The United States already has welcomed the possibility of using facilities at Cockburn Sound and the requirements of our allies will have been kept in mind. The development of this naval base will, together with Learmonth, improve our surveillance and reconnaissance capability for the whole region.

The report refers to the five-power arrangements in the context of Australia’s growing responsibility, in conjunction with its neighbours and five-power allies, in maintaining - within the limitations imposed by our military strength and financial resources - peace and security in the region. The negotiations with our regional allies - Malaysia, Singapore, Britain and New Zealand - leading to the establishment of the five-power defence arrangements, have been successfully concluded and the arrangements are now in effect. The Australian contribution consists of a battalion group and logistic support elements based in Singapore, 2 squadrons of Mirages and base facilities at Butterworth, with a detachment of 6 aircraft permanently deployed at Singapore, as well as naval vessels and a submarine, in rotation with a British submarine, deployed in the area. An Australian, Air Vice-Marshal Susans, has been appointed commander of the integrated air defence system established for the air defence of Malaysia and Singapore.

The Committee has examined in some detail great power involvement and interests in the Indian Ocean region - specifically, the role and interests of Britain, the United States, Japan, China and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The Committee discussed the United States Middle East force operating from Bahrain in paragraph 31 of its report. The United States Government has announced that on 23 rd December 1971 it concluded an agreement with Bahrain under which the United States is to lease parts of the former British naval base at Jufair. Previously, the United States had an informal arrangement with Britain on behalf and with the approval of the Bahrain Government, under which the United States Middle East force - comprising a converted seaplane tender, as a flagship and 2 destroyers - had been based on Jufair for over 20 years. A recent British decision to return the Jufair facilities to Bahrain would have left the Middle East force without a base, and it had therefore become necessary for the United States to negotiate a status of forces and leasing arrangement with the Bahrain Government. United States spokesmen have made clear that the United States Middle East force based on Bahrain will not be enlarged, and it remains the only permanent United States naval presence in the region. However, a modern command ship the USS ‘La Salle’, will replace the seaplane tender in July 1972.

In answering Press inquiries about the United States-Bahrain arrangement on 6th January 1972, a Pentagon spokesman also indicated that units of the Seventh Fleet would continue to operate in the Indian Ocean from time to time, but not on any fixed schedule or at any fixed or permanent level. He revealed that the United States Commander-in-Chief Pacific Fleet, to whose command the Seventh Fleet belongs, has been given responsibility for United States naval operations in most of the Indian Ocean. This task was formerly shared with the United States CommanderinChief Atlantic. The Pentagon spokesman commented that this new arrangement was to bring the Indian Ocean area under one unified command and would enhance United States capabilities to operate there if necessary. Although these statements do not indicate any change in United States policy inasmuch as elements of the United States Seventh Fleet have made random sorties and conducted exercises in the Indian Ocean before, the Australian Government welcomes continued United States deployments in the Indian Ocean and the agreement with Bahrain, as well as the development of the joint United StatesUnited Kingdom communications facility at Diego Garcia, and sees this evidence of United States1 interest as a valuable and necessary demonstration that the United Stales has a security role and capability in this area.

The Committee has recommended that the opportunity or initiative should be taken to arrange visits of goodwill by Australian naval forces, which would serve to highlight the interest of Australia in maintaining peace and security in the region and in becoming an integral part of the region. The Government recognises the value of such ‘flag-showing* visits, and a study is planned on the practicability of drawing up a programme of visits to certain countries of the Indian Ocean littoral in support to our diplomatic policies in the region.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP; NCP from May 1975

-BROCKMAN - I have to slate Government policy, which is a little different from what the honourable senator does. The Committee also made reference to multi-national exercises off the Western Australian coast. It is certainly our intention to encourage similar exercises with our allies whenever possible. Finally, as I said at the outset, this report provides a most useful review of the history, interests and policies of the nations of the Indian Ocean. The Government is conscious: of the need for a continuous watch on developments and, indeed, has already taken certain steps to improve our defence posture in the area. Other steps will be planned if and when the need arises.

Senator Cavanagh:

– Who is the honourable senator’s authority?

Senator HANNAN:

– A senior naval officer whose name I do not propose to use. Anyone who believes that the Soviet plays by the normal rules in regard to the sea should look at many other incidents which have happened. Only recently 2 Soviet vessels were arrested near Alaska by the American coast guard. Two years ago 2 Russian trawlers were taken into a Scottish port because they were poaching in Scottish fishing waters.

Senator HANNAN:

– The honourable senator would not be so inclined to laugh if he earned his living fishing instead of talking hot air.

Senator HANNAN:

– 1 will go along with that.

Senator HANNAN:

– We will just look at what happened when-

Senator HANNAN:

– Naturally we had to arrest and charge the Taiwanese fishermen for breaching our laws. I do not dodge that issue. 1 think we should have done thai. At the same time 1 remind friends opposite that the Soviet ship ‘Van Gogh’ entered what Australia regards as the closed waters of the Gulf of Carpentaria. Australian fishermen in the Gulf did not think it at all funny when that large Soviet ship steamed through schools of fish, destroying their prospects of a good catch. There is nothing to which they would not stoop.

Senator HANNAN:

– 1 think the Australian prawn fisherman is entitled to as much protection as are honourable senators, members of the House of Representatives or people in any other occupation in Australia. Maybe that is a strange point of view but it is one to which I propose to adhere. One does not have to be Mandrake to imagine what would happen if an American trawler or an American destroyer were shadowing Soviet operations off Murmansk or Odessa. We know very well what would happen. That would be regarded as provocative action. According to my friends opposite, the Russians can do what they like and that is fair enough: they have the right, and there must be no retaliation. Anything that the West does is provocation.

Senator HANNAN:

– They are going over pretty fast, I turn to something to which no-one has adverted earlier in this debate. My friend Senator Wheeldon went to some lengths to set up, as Senator Mulvihill suggested, his own aunt sallys and to dispose of certain racist matters. From what he said I rather gathered that South Africa and Portugal, these powerful nations, were the great threat to the world.

Senator HANNAN:

– That is the inescapable inference to be drawn from what you said. I come to the real reason for the attack on South Africa, usually made by people who could not care less about the welfare of the natives. I have heard people at the United Nations in New York declaiming the wickedness of the South Africans and proclaiming democracy, justice, freedom and the rights of man. 1 referred to the ‘International Year Book and Statement Who’s Who’ which set out the government of the country concerned.

Senator HANNAN:

– I will give you the name of the country in a minute. The President was elected for life. There was only one party - no Opposition parties, no judiciary, no human rights. Do you want the name of the country?

Senator HANNAN:

– lt was the Sudan.

Senator HANNAN:

– I do not support the type of government which exists in Spain, although compared with the Sudanese government it is a Sunday school operation. J am being distracted continually by children opposite. I come to the real reason for the attack on South Africa. The South Africans have a problem. I will not attempt to justify all aspects of apartheid, but I do know that the South Africans control the only naval base with full facilities on the western end of the Indian Ocean. It is no coincidence that people who could not care less about what happens to native peoples, people who have spent their entire political lives in foreign countries - I am not talking about my friends opposite - while their own people have been suppressed, have suddenly developed a charitable interest in the downtrodden and oppressed masses of South Africa. Does it strike you, Mr Acting Deputy President, as strange that almost the entire chorus of communist countries, the satellite countries, the countries which look for communist assistance such as it is, and their sycophants opposite have all joined in this chorus of criticism of South Africa? The purpose of this is to isolate the South Africans, to make them pariahs and ensure that as a result of a break in relations the use of the Simonstown naval base is denied to the Western powers. The proposition is so simple that it only has to be stated to see how unanswerable it is.

It is true that the Soviet has the largest fishing fleet in the world. A good deal of it is in the Indian Ocean. It is well equipped electronically. It has sonar, radar and electronic equipment which can be used for the gathering of intelligence. In addition, the Soviet possesses the sixth largest merchant fleet. In the normal way of a totalitarian dictatorship, the merchant fleet is used as an auxiliary for naval intelligence and has to do as it is told. It is my belief that Australia should have a 2-ocean navy or at least a 2-ocean squadron. If the ‘Melbourne’ is to be used on the east coast and if a squadron of frigates or destroyers is required to screen it - if there is an operating task force on the east coast - it strikes me that Western Australia needs that type of defence as much as the east coast does. It was a matter of disappointment to me - I had discussed the matter with certain senior naval officers; not with naval staff, 1 want to make it quite clear - that we missed the opportunity of acquiring, almost for the asking, 3 relatively modern aircraft carriers. The British carrier HMS Hermes’ was, I am informed, available to Australia.

Senator HANNAN:

– I will not disclose the naval officer’s name. I have not any intention of doing that. This ship was available to Australia, lt was laid down in 1959. lt is a modern warship. It may interest my friends opposite, who in the past have displayed such terror of nuclear explosions, to know that the ‘Hermes’ is capable of steaming through a nuclear cloud. This ship, which was available to Australia, regrettably was not accepted. It has now been converted by the British into a commando-type carrier using helicopters.

Senator HANNAN:

– You will have to work that out.

Senator HANNAN:

– I express disappointment that the Government which I support did not accept it. There arises the objection as to cost. We were getting the ship for virtually nothing. Could we man it? It is quite true that we could not have manned the ship immediately but the Navy has never had any difficulty in recruitment. In my view, it would not have been at all difficult over 2 or 21 years to recruit and train a suitable crew - about 1,800 to 2,000 men would be involved - to man the Hermes’. The ‘Hermes’ has gone; we cannot have it. lt is probable that if diligent search and inquiry were made we might be able to obtain one of the 2 United States ships which are in moth balls at the moment - the USS ‘V……….a’ of about 40,000 tons fully loaded, which is not as modern .as the ‘Hermes’ but is still a good ship, or the ‘Bennington’, which is about the same displacement but perhaps 2 years older. Of course, this would have required extensive increases in the size of bases in the west of Australia, but at least it would have given us a naval squadron which was more than sufficient to ensure that Australia’s interests in these areas were protected. Honourable senators opposite have taken the view that once there is a nuclear war, naval vessels, for some reason or another - I do not know who put this proposition to them - are obsolete. Nothing could be further from the truth, especially in relation to a modern naval aircraft carrier and properly screened vessel., which are capable of operating inside the area of nuclear fall-out. For those reasons I think it is sheer nonsense for our friends opposite to say that the navy is obsolete. I believe that even at this late stage some attempt should be made to obtain a fixed wing carrier for operation off the western coast of Australia.

As I think was pointed out by Senator Wheeldon - I am in agreement with him on this, so I am a little worried; but it is indeed true - India is now closer to the

Soviet Union as a result of the IndianPakistani clash. There is no doubt about that. A little time ago, of course, when India was being attacked by China it ran screaming to the United States for assislance. but al the present lime India’s favours are certainly bestowed upon the Soviet Union. The report refers lo the possibility of India granting to the Soviet Union a base with full facilities at Vishakhapatnam. We have progressed a fair way since William Dampier first looked over the coast of Western Australia. It was extremely pleasing to hear the Minister for Air, Senator Drake-Brockman, outline the programme which he did in the Senate this evening. The entrance to the rodlan Ocean for the Soviet comes down from Vladivostok through the Java Sea or, of course, across from the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa. When I use the expression South Africa’ it can then be seen how important Soviet interests regard the neutralisation of the Simonstown naval base or at least the proscribing of South Africa from the side of the West.

I think I have said enough to indicate that this Committee’s study is a sober and serious appreciation of the defence situation existing on our western coast. Before concluding, 1 cannot help but wonder whether the round table philosophy for settling international disputes of my good friend, Senator O’Byrne. with whom 1 spent a good deal of time at the United Nations, would be particularly attractive to the Czechs, the Hungarians, the Baits, the Poles, the Rumanians or the Ukrainians.

Senator HANNAN:

– Or even the Northern Irish. If we lived in a perfect world that could well be the case, but the inescapable inference from my friend’s speech is that he welcomes the presence of the Soviet fleet in our home waters. In contradistinction to his, I recommend the serious consideration of the defence propositions which are contained in the early pari of the report.

Senator Webster:

– That was raised in the Senate years ago when the ‘Hermes’ first became available.

Senator TURNBULL:
TASMANIA · IND; AP from Aug. 1969; IND from Jan. 1970

– It may have been, but I also referred to this matter 2 or 3 years ago. Anyway, my reference to this matter is recorded in Hansard and the research people could look it up if necessary.

Senator TURNBULL:
TASMANIA · IND; AP from Aug. 1969; IND from Jan. 1970

– But this matter was raised earlier than that. Anyway, I will disregard that matter for the moment. The point I wish to make is that we have to do something about defending ourselves. I do not care whether the Government wants to spend millions at Cockburn Sound or anywhere else, but 1 do know that it is necessary io have a naval depot somewhere for our ships to be fitted out and looked after. After all, if one wants to be cynical, there is no safer place than Cockburn Sound to have one. I do not for one moment believe that any threat to Australia will come from the Indian Ocean. I think that is just plain crazy. We have buried our heads in the sand because it has suited the Government to keep telling everyone that the Chinese will be coming down to attack us. They have no interest at all in us. They have never had an interest in us. What can we give the Chinese? It is said now that the Russians will be coming down. If there is to be an enemy it will be Japan, but we do not hear the Government saying anything about Japan being a threat to Australia and Japan will not be coming down through the Indian Ocean. We are allowing ourselves to be bought economically by Japan and the Department of Foreign Affairs is taking no notice of what is happening. lt is not advising the Ministry of the potential threat of Japan to Australia’s peace and security. Our future enemy will not be China and it will not be Russia: it will probably be Japan. Let me assure honourable senators that after 15th May, which is, I think, the date on which Okinawa will be handed back to the Japanese, Japan will turn nuclear. No matter how much they protest that they will have nothing to do with nuclear arms they will become nuclear after Okinawa has been returned to them. It is a matter of national pride that they have Okinawa back. They know that America would not give it back if they went nuclear beforehand. Already the Japanese have increased their defence vote by 20 per cent and Japan is virtually a nuclear country already. It has its atomic energy reactors for peaceful purposes.

Debate interrupted.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order! In conformity with the sessional order relating to the adjournment of the Senate, 1 formally put the question:

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Senator Mulvihill:

– I would be happy with the former arrangement.

page 48

AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITIES COMMISSION

page 49

UNIVERSITIES

page 49

OVERSEAS OWNERSHIP OF LAND

page 50

OVERSEAS AID

page 50

IMPORTATION OF GRASS SEED

page 50

HOLIDAY PAY

page 51

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

Motions (by Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson) - by leave - agreed to: That Senators Sim, Wilkinson and Little be granted leave of absence for one month on account of absence overseas on parliamentary business,

That Senator Georges be granted leave of amenca for two months on account of absence overseas on parliamentary business.

page 51

STANDING COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND THE ARTS

Report ob Teacher Education

At the outset I would draw attention to the circumstances of the occasion. The Senate Standing Committee on Education, Science and the Arts was assigned, as its first reference, ‘What should be the role of the Commonwealth in regard to teacher education throughout Australia?’ The Committee was directed to report to the Senate not later than the first day of meeting of the Senate in 1972. Today - on this first silting day - I am honoured to present to the Senate our Standing Committee’s first report. The Standing Committee was established by the Senate last year and has enjoyed a continuing membership during this study which concludes today.

Our reference on teacher education was an important one. Evidence of that fact was shown in the response to the inquiry by so many interested organisations. These included the Commonwealth Department of Education and Science and the State Departments of Education. One hundred and fifty written submissions were received and 36 witnesses gave evidence to the Committee.

Our report covers, as far as time and circumstances allowed, a wide ranging study of matters relating to teacher education. These included the areas of preparation, training and employment of teachers, along with references to the situations of preschool teachers, technical teachers and those described as special teachers, and those in non-government schools. The report also contains emphasis on research, administration and the past and present role of the Commonwealth.

The Committee was constantly reminded throughout the hearing that many long standing assumptions regarding education were now being seriously challenged. Some of these assumptions were in the areas of pupil/teacher ratios and the relative significance of pre-school, primary and secondary teaching. The whole pattern of teaching techniques too needed, in our opinion, serious and constant review. Indeed, the whole philosophy of education in the 1 970s should be under the closest possible scrutiny. The fact that we have placed emphasis on this scrutiny, and because there appears to us to be no effective research on the problems to which 1 have referred, we have had difficulty in making any reliable anticipation of the quantitative or qualitative demands for teachers in the future.

We have, therefore, decided to place before the Senate some recommendations at 2 levels, firstly, to bring forward some recommendations that are essentially based on existing assumptions and relate to short range matters, and secondly, some major recommendations of a long range category. However. I must say that the total number of the Committee’s recommendations range over a wide field. They cover the questions of integrated courses as against what we called end-on courses; the extension of the period of teacher training; the screening of applicants for teacher training; the need for better statistics, an ending of the incongruous discrimination by the Commonwealth against teachers colleges as compared with colleges of advanced education in the matter of matching grants; the abolition of bonded studentships and the need for a uniform system of tertiary scholarships; an examination of the feasibility of introducing a system of student loans; the need for improved in-service training; the registration of teachers; the training of teachers for nongovernment schools; the provision of capital and recurrent expenses to get pre-school training off the ground; the training of special and technical teachers; the preeminently important question of research, and the administrative structure of teacher education in Australia. In recent years the Commonwealth has assumed an increasing role in education. The developments, firstly, from the establishment of the Commonwealth Office of Education and, secondly, through the various reports or commissions and committees lead me to say that this role has grown in significance and importance.

I turn now to the conclusions and particularly the recommendations. The latter number some 33. Senators will undoubtedly study them in due course and this statement can do no more than make a brief reference to some of the areas which the Committee regarded as important. I therefore take the section which includes the short term recommendations. Here the report recommends that all approved teachers colleges, for both administrative and funding purposes, should be incorporated in colleges of advanced education. This would ensure that the Commonwealth and States would share the capital costs of teacher education $1 for $1 and the running costs $1 for $1.85. This is the present financial co-partnership of the Commonwealth and States in universities and multipurpose colleges of advanced education. It would remove teacher training institutions from the jurisdiction of the employing authorities - the departments of education - and would confer a measure of autonomy and freedom from standardisation.

Another significant recommendation in this section is that a conference of the Commonwealth and State governments be held to devise a uniform system of scholarships to apply to the whole of the tertiary system. Such scholarships would apply, for example, equally to the faculties of medicine, engineering, architecture and science as to teacher education. Under such conditions, students would be able to select the particular studies of their prior choice and abilities. The Committee felt that the present tendency to take a teacher training scholarship purely as a means of obtaining a university degree would be obviated, thus significantly reducing one of the factors causing student wastage in teacher training.

In giving attention to what we termed the long range recommendations, T turn to the chapter on research in teacher education. We were convinced that in comprehending the fundamentals of teacher education - this, after all, is an essential first step in contemplating the Commonwealth role - we had to examine the principles on which past policies have been based and see if those principles would remain valid for the future. Education in the next two decades will have needs that will be uniquely different, and in order that these needs might be met a great deal of research must be undertaken.

We have stressed that comprehensive research is the overriding and continuing need. Indeed it is inherent to the whole of the Committee’s recommendations. Comprehensive research into teacher education in Australia has been minimal although we have acknowledged the work of State departments of education, universities and colleges of advanced education, and the value of their projects. We have also been encouraged by the establishment of the Australian Advisory Committee on Research and Development in Education - also known as the Partridge Committee - and indeed we have based our main recommendation in this sector on this Committee. We recommend that this Advisory Committee conduct a comprehensive programme of research into education, including teacher education, and be provided with sufficient funds to enable it to commission such further research.

Our report concludes with a chapter referring to the administration of teacher education in Australia. From what I have said, and from a study of the report, it will be apparent that there is a great need for a programme of effective co-ordination. The Committee was persuaded as to this need and sums up this chapter by a comprehensive recommendation that the Australian Universities Commission, together with the Australian Advisory Committee on Research and Development in Education establish an effective liaison with the statutory boards of teacher education and/or advanced education in the States to agree upon and implement both long and short term plans for the development of teacher education in Australia. I recommend the report lo the Senate and invite a study of its contents and recommendations. 1 would like to express my appreciation, as Chairman, to my colleagues for their co-operation during this inquiry, to the members of the Parliamentary Reporting Staff and the Secretary, Dr C. Campbell, and the Assistant Secretary, Mr R. J. Hoy. for their assistance. I want to’ remind the Senate of ‘ the words of an eminent educationist:

Teacher education should not - indeed cannot - usefully he considered outside the total pattern of higher education and more broadly - and more importantly - of the education system as a whole.

I seek leave to continue my remarks when the debate is resumed.

Leave granted; debate adjourned.

page 53

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following Bills reported:

War Service Homes Bill 1971. Loan (War Service Land Settlement) Bill 1971. States Grants (Special Assistance) Bill 1971. Papua New Guinea Bill 1971. Customs Tariff Validation Bill (No. 2) 1971. Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 1971-72. Tariff Board Bill 1971.

South Australia Grant (Fruit Canneries) Bill 1971.

New South Wales Grant (Leeton Co-operative

Cannery Limited) Bill 1971. Slates Grants (Capital Assistance) Bill 1971. Stales Grants (Aboriginal Advancement) Bill

Dried Vine Fruits Levy Bill 1971.

Dried Vine Fruits Levy Collection Bill 1971.

Dried Vine Fruits Stabilization Bill 1971.

Customs Bill (No. 2) 1971.

Slates Grants Bill (No. 2) 1971.

Salaries (Statutory Offices) Adjustment Bill 1971.

Indicia! Appointment (Fiji) Bill 1971.

Restrictive Trade Practices Bill 1971.

page 53

FOREIGN OWNERSHIP AND CONTROL

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Prowse) - I inform the Senate that letters have been received from the Leader of the Government in the Senate (Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson), the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Murphy) and the Leader of the Australian Democratic Labor Party (Senator Gair) appointing the following senators to the Select Committee on Foreign Ownership and Control: Senators Byrne, Guilfoyle. Maunsell. Murphy, O’Byrne and Withers.

page 53

PARLIAMENTARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Prowse) - I inform the Senate that f have received a letter from Senator Cant resigning his position as a member of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works.

page 53

FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE

Report on Indian Ocean Region

Debate resumed from 9 December 1971 (vide page 2563), on motion by Senator Wright:

That the Senate take note of the report.

Senator WHEELDON:
Western Australia

– A matter which I think should be recognised by the Senate is that for perhaps the first time the Senate has before it a report on the present situation in the Indian Ocean and the opportunity is given to members of the Senate to debate the problems which confront Australia and other countries in the Indian Ocean region. Naturally the report deals to a very great extent with the problems which the Committee believes result from the intervention of various major powers in the Indian Ocean. There can be no question that a great deal of the discussion which has taken place recently in this country about the Indian Ocean has resulted from allegations about a growing Soviet military presence in the Indian Ocean region. Australia is a country in which a great many people are constantly looking for enemies prepared to invade it and naturally this is producing some of the hysterical reactions which have been so much a feature of debate on Australia’s foreign policy throughout the years. I think it would oe quite incorrect and quite valueless if the

Senate, in debating the situation in the Indian Ocean region, were merely to look at.it from the point of view of the interests of various major powers and were to consider only what will happen as a result of Britain’s withdrawal, what will happen as a result of the Soviet allegedly coming and what the United States or China might do in this part of the world. None of those countries is an Indian Ocean country. I believe that it is time that Australia took part in a radical reassessment of its policies towards our neighbours in the Indian Ocean area.

On the whole, the Indian Ocean region has been one of the quieter regions of the world in past decades. Apart from the conflict which took place in. Indonesia at the time of the gaining of independence by the Indonesians from the Netherlands Government shortly after the Second World War, apart from the events which took place in 1965 when the Government of Dr Sukarno was replaced by the present regime in Indonesia and apart from the constant tension which has existed between India and Pakistan since the partition of India in 1947, generally speaking the Indian Ocean region has been much quieter than have been Europe and other parts of Asia. Probably even Latin America has been confronted with more violent upheavals than has the Indian Ocean region. I suggest that we are seeing a change in the alignment of forces and in the political development of the Indian Ocean area. I think it would be worth while to look at the present situation in the Indian Ocean area.

One of the consequences of the relative quietness in the Indian Ocean region is the fact that at present, at least in the African part of the region, are some of the few remaining colonies or countries (hal are administered by white settlers anywhere in the world. Portugal, which is the oldest European empire, still maintains the bulk of its empire there. It still exercises authority over Mozambique on the south eastern coast of Africa. Although Angola is not bounded by the Indian Ocean it is in close proximity to it and it can be said, without an undue stretch of the imagination, to form part of the Indian Ocean area. The Republic of South Africa, although it is not a colony of a great power and although I think it would be quite incorrect to describe the white South Africans as other than native born inhabitants of the country in which they live, still exists as a pseudocolonial power in which the whites who represent less than 20 per cent of the population exercise authority over the remainder of the inhabitants of that country - the Africans, the coloured people and the Asians who, according to the last South African census, constitute more than 80 per cent of the population of that country.

There is still within Rhodesia, the former Southern Rhodesia, which is known to the majority of its inhabitants as Zimbabwe, a regime dominated by fewer than a quarter of a million white settlers who live in that country. It is interesting to note I think that, unlike South Africa, a very large proportion of the white inhabitants of Rhodesia are not native born Rhodesians but are quite recent immigrants from Britain, South Africa and Greece in particular and from some other countries as well.

The majority of the countries adjoining the Indian Ocean are still confronted by problems of colonialism which, at least in that form, have disappeared from other parts of the world. The existence of the present Nationalist regime in South Africa, the existence of the colonial power in the Portuguese provinces in south Africa and the minority regime in Rhodesia colour the behaviour and the thinking of African people in adjoining countries. Throughout Africa people are concerned that their fellow Africans are deprived of normal civil rights. There cannot be any doubt that there is a continuing tension throughout Africa, which is reflected throughout the whole of the Indian Ocean region, because of the continuance of colonial regimes in Africa.

Recently there has been a most dramatic development on the Indian sub-continent. Pakistan, a new country which came into existence only in 1947 - it is still less than one quarter of a century old - has split apart and the majority of the inhabitants of the former East Pakistan have constituted a new state known as Bangla Desh which is recognised already by a number of world powers. Australia has already recognised Bangla Desh as an independent country and Bangla Desh has applied for membership of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Until the outbreak of the Second World War the Indian Ocean could almost have been regarded as a British lake. The present India, Pakistan and Ceylon as well as the present Malaysia and Singapore were parts of the British Empire. Along the east coast of Africa there were British colonies - the old Tanganyika, Zanzibar, Kenya. Rhodesia and Nyasaland. At the southern extremity of the Indian Ocean were Australia and the former Union of South Africa, both of which were members of the then British Commonwealth and both of which generally followed, at least so far ils foreign policy was concerned, the policies of the British Government.

The only other major centre of population in the Indian Ocean at that time was Indonesia which, until the Japanese invasion in 1941-42, was part of the Dutch empire. It was the Netherlands East Indies. Very dramatic changes have taken place there. Indonesia has achieved its independence. There have been very dramatic changes inside Indonesia since it attained its independence. The government of Dr Sukarno, which pursued some kind of left of centre stance by world standards, has been replaced by the government of General Suharto. I think it would be conceded by everybody - whether they are criticising or applauding this fact - that Indonesia now pursues a most conservative right wing policy by Asian standards.

There certainly have been most dramatic changes in India, Pakistan and Ceylon. The most recent changes are perhaps the most dramatic of all. There has been a serious conflict within Pakistan and, following that, a conflict between Pakistan and India. Perhaps the most impressive or most remarkable feature about the recent conflict in the Indian sub-continent was tha1 no major Western power exercised a decisive influence over what took place. Clearly the closest ally to India in the conflict with Pakistan was the Soviet Union, and clearly the closest ally of Pakistan in the conflict with India was the People’s Republic of China. It is interesting that the statements of the Indian Government have indicated the gratitude which it feels lo the Soviet Union for the support which was given by the Soviet Union to India in that conflict. It is interesting also that the first visit overseas by the President of Pakistan, Dr Bhutto, since the conflict was to the People’s Republic of China. So whoever may have been victorious or may have gained anything out of the conflict between India and Pakistan and the establishment of Bangla Desh, from a great power point of view, it certainly was not the United Stales or Britain and it certainly was not Australia. We now find that India is even much more closely aligned with the Soviet Union than it was before the conflict took place, and the Government of Pakistan, although now exercising authority only over what was formerly West Pakistan, is much more closely allied with China than it was before this conflict took place. 1 do Dot believe that we should look on the peoples of the Indian Ocean, as we have done so frequently in the past, as being minions or pawns to be pushed around by great powers. What is becoming increasingly evident is that the people of the various countries in the whole Indian Ocean area are struggling for their independence and obtaining their independence, and they are exercising their own policies without direction from foreign powers. Whatever assistance was given by the Soviet Union or the People’s Republic of China to the differing parties iri the India-Pakistan conflict, I do not think that anybody, not even the most hysterical anti-Communist, could say that either the Soviet Union or the People’s Republic of China was responsible for what happened. What happened in Bangla Desh was a result of a popular uprising by the majority of the people within the former East Pakistan.

The actions which the Indians took and the actions which were taken by the Government of Pakistan were taken by those governments as a result of the exercise of their own judgment. Whether they exercised their judgment correctly or incorrectly is another matter, but they certainly were not acting as the puppets or the pawns of any major power. Therefore to go on talking about the Soviet military presence or the Chinese military presence, as supporters of the Australian Government so often do, is to ignore completely what in fact is taking place in the Indian Ocean area. What is taking place in the Indian Ocean area is a movement of the people inside that area without direction from other countries. J think this has beet), shown also in Indonesia. Whether one welcomes or deplores the changi; that look p!:tce when Dr Sukarno was replaced as President by General Suharto and although it could noi be denied that there were major powers that were very concerned about what was happening and were doing their best to exercise influence in Indonesia, what happened in Indonesia was an internal Indonesian conflict which was resolved, correctly or incorrectly, by Indonesians.

Senator CARRICK:
New South Wales

– The situation in the Indian Ocean is an extremely topical subject. Indeed, it is so topical that events have in some respects outstripped the report which is before the Senate. I. think it is important to relate the report to its substance and its findings. A sub-committee of the Joint Foreign Affairs Committee was set up in. May 1970. lt deliberated for some 18 months. Subsequently the full Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs deliberated on the subject and this report was tabled on 7th December 1971. I have said that the subject of this report is highly topical. I think it will be agreed that much of the report contains valuable background data focusing on a highly - important region. It is significant to point to something to which Senator Wheeldon failed to allude, that is, th:it the report has 17 main recommendations - 3 covering diplomacy, 3 covering trade, 3 covering aid and 7 covering defence. I believe that those subjects should be alluded to and discussed in this debate.

The region that is under discussion involves some 30 countries of this world and some 5 island territories. Indeed, it embraces almost one-third of the world’s population. The Indian Ocean is, as the report has described, it, a great seaway. It is one of the greatest seaways in the world. lt takes traffic to and from Europe and to and from Japan. Indeed, it carries 90 per cent of Japan’s oil imports. Some 46 per cent or 47 per cent of Australia’s trade goes across this great seaway, lt is a seaway that enables Soviet Russia to link its eastern ports - its Vladivostok - with its western and northern ports. So, in itself, it is highly important. It is particularly significant because in recent times there have been enormous changes in it. First it was under the domination, under the suzerainty almost, of Great Britain for centuries. In recent years there has been the emergence of the independent littoral states that surround it. There is another factor - the closing of the Suez Canal and, therefore, the alteration in the movement of shipping and of trade. A third factor which has been highly significant is the significant reduction of Britain’s naval capacity in the area. Added to that is the emergence of America’s interests in the Indian Ocean and. even more significantly, the great and growing interest of Russia.

I refuse to be scared by the kind of talk that we have heard from Senator Wheeldon who says that he does not want to be worried by a few Russian trawlers wandering around Mauritius. This expression is meant to frighten us from the subject. If what he says were so, we need not worry, but the evidence that should be stated in this chamber and to the people of Australia is entirely different. The evidence which we have on the authority of the Chief of the Australian Naval Staff, Admiral Peek, to the Parliament and to the people is quite different. The evidence is that the Russian Navy today is an all ocean navy with all the implications of that phrase. The evidence as given by Admiral Peek is that it is the largest navy in the world, the most modern navy in the world and the most rapidly growing navy in the world. Indeed, as I shall mention later, it is a navy with an indefinite capacity to sustain itself in the Indian Ocean as in all other oceans. If this is a few Russian trawlers wandering around Mauritius, then I personally have misunderstood Admiral Peek.

It is true that it. has been suggested - in this respect 1 differ with the report - that there is some vulnerability in respect of the Soviet because it has not an aircraft carrier and because it lacks bases and all weather ports. I think it is important for the Senate to listen to these words which I quote from a statement by Admiral Peek:

The Soviet has not built aircraft carriers, but they seem to believe their naval missiles - airtosurface, surface-to-surface and surface-to-air - to be a step beyond carriers.

So the absence of carriers on that concept is not a definable defect but a definable strength. The report, when put in perspective, relates in its identification of shipping to surface shipping. It does not, because it cannot, identify the movement of submarine vessels in the Indian Ocean. As honourable senators may be aware, the Russian Navy today has not only an equality of numbers of nuclear submarines with the United States but also has in all some 340 orthodox submarines compared with some 85 of the United States as listed in ‘Jane’s Fighting Ships’. I commend to the Senate the table from ‘Jane’s Fighting Ships’ and I commend, incidentally, a study of other countries, including the growing navy of mainland China.

According to the Chief of the Naval Staff, the Russian submarine fleet is the largest in the world. It has 3 basic types, both nuclear and conventional. Firstly it has a standard torpedo attack type - but also it has anti-submarine. Secondly it has ballistic missile submarines of the Polaris type which play a strategic deterrent role. It has also a unique type of long range surfacetosurface air breathing missile to be used mainly against ships but which also could be used with nuclear warheads against shore installations. Those who still look to the few Russian trawlers might well be reminded that the range of the missiles is csl mated to be some 1,300 miles. They are fairly impressive. From the same authority we find that the Russian Navy has not only 95 nuclear submarines but also has built 10 of these vessels in 1970 and has an estimated capacity of building 30 nuclear submarines a year. The ‘Yankee’ class, a ballistic 16 missile tube submarine, has a range of some 1,300 nautical miles. I do not wish to go into the full details of the actual strenth of the Russian Navy in its various compartments.

It has been said that there are a few trawlers near Mauritius. The Chief of the Naval Staff said that the Indian Ocean is another area that has seen much Soviet naval activity recently. Ever since the spring of 1969 there has been a continuous Soviet naval presence in that ocean. Since early 1968 the Soviet Navy has made more than 50 visits to about 25 different ports in Ki countries in the Indian Ocean area. That is highly different from the suggestion made here today by Senator Wheeldon, and made by Mr Morrison, the Australian Labor Party spokesman on foreign affairs, when the report was tabled in another place. The Russian Navy must be seen not only in terms of its combatant shipping; it must be seen also in 3 other capacities: The merchant marine, which is enormously fast growing; the fishing fleet, which now comprises more than 4,000 substantially large ships - by far the largest in the world and very many of them in the Indian Ocean - and some 200 oceanographic research ships, as modern as they come. All these, along with the Russian Navy, are under government control and, therefore, are part of a military arm. Sp when we look we should be looking towards a situation in which there is an all-ocean navy which is immensely strong and we should put to rest this argument that Russia has just a few ships - that her role in the Indian Ocean is insignificant. I propose to read some further remarks from Admiral Peek to indicate quite clearly that his view is that Russia is not confined by her lack of bases, or seeming lack of bases, or all-weather ports.

Senator Webster:
VICTORIA

– From what document is that?

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania

– We have just heard from Senator Carrick a most interesing speech on the situation that confronts Australia in the new alignment of naval forces in the Indian Ocean. Perhaps we could say that his speech and his attitude would be classified as representing the good old colonial speeches made when Britannia ruled the waves and when the oceans of the world were freeways for the whites, for the English and those who were prepared to go along with the English. 1 wish to bring Senator Carrick up to present day events. Other countries in the world also believe that they should share the waves. I think that the British are content now to become part of the European area and to trade with and learn to live peaceably with the other countries of Europe. It seems a pity that a wonderful race of people such as the British has wasted its substance for over 100 years fighting for I do not know what. Now the British people find that the very people whom they have fought for so long are their natural allies and trading partners and that the old ideals and ideas of empire have faded away. So we are left here, as one of the former colonies and countries of the Empire, to look anew at where we stand in relation to the rest of the world.

Senator Carrick has quoted a number of figures from Jane’s ‘All the World’s Fighting Ships’ and other sources about the strength of the Soviet navy in the Indian Ocean. The honourable senator was not so rash as to say that Soviet vessels did riot have the right to be in the Indian Ocean. As a matter of fact, any country with a navy has a right internationally to sail the oceans of the world. In the past, we have been in the position where we could make it very difficult for a country such as the Soviet Union to exercise that right. Now we are reaching the stage where we are developing equal and opposite reactions. We must acquaint ourselves with and adapt ourselves to the fac:s of international life. 1 was not terribly impressed with the figures that were quoted by Senator Carr rick as to the strength of the Soviet navy. The fact is that we have caused the Soviet Union to build its fleet to the size that it is today. The Soviet Union was virtually a land-locked area. It did not have access to the seas of the world through its northern ports. Its activities were well policed in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. The Soviet Union is exercising its right as a super-power, a status which it has achieved along with the United States of America, to accept what was given to us during our heyday as part of the colonial and imperialist power that was the British Empire and then the British Commonwealth. It is accepting now the rights that were given to us and saying: ‘We can exercise them’. Whatever we do, we still have to admit that it has the right to do that.

The proposition that Senator Carrick is putting forward is that we have to perpetuate this fanaticism which is getting the world into so much trouble, namely, that whatever the philosophy of these countries - the Soviet Union, China, North Vietnam,

Cuba or one of the South American or African countries - it is evil and ours is right. If we follow this pattern it will mean that for the foreseeable future we will have to continue to divert resources into allaying this fanatical fear on the one hand and the belief that we can overthrow the philosophies and regimes of these countries on the other.

If we examine the situation closely, we see that the frictions and wars which are taking place and which have taken place over the last 20 or 30 years have been justified by the American strategy or policy that if the Americans were able to create sufficient strength and power they could cause an undermining of the governments of the Soviet Union, China and various other countries scattered throughout the world. The Korean conflict was one example. The United Nations became involved in it against its better judgment or against its will. There was just as much manipulation to involve the United Nations in Korea as there was to try to obtain a vote against the admission of the People’s Republic of China to the United Nations. But that is history now. That issue has been resolved. I believe that our involvement in Korea was part of the philosophy of the people of the United States, backed up by people such as Senator Carrick and the Australian foreign policy that we could bring about internal disruption and perhaps the overthrow of the governments of these various countries and, if we did not bring that about, we could mount attacks on them.

The Soviet Union in particular has diverted most of its resources into adopting a defensive attitude. It has had to expand in depth into Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary and the other buffer countries and exercise its influence there because of the fear that the United States Central Intelligence Agency and that country’s other instrumentalities which are practically extra-governmental would undermine the people’s governments there and establish reactionary governments which would allow the Western powers, with its fanatical objection to people having their own form of government, to make attacks through these bordering countries. This world philosophy is the basic thing in

Europe. This is what has kept Europe back from having peaceful relations with other parts of the world.

The same applies to China. The people of the United States have been fed propaganda that the Chinese will come down to Australia. The Democratic Labor Party has sold to the Australian people, through radio and television, this propaganda that the Chinese hordes will come down through the islands, that the Red arrows will come down and that these people will do all sorts of things to our women. That type of thing is suitable for propaganda, but it has established a great fear of the Chinese people among the people of Australia. lt is not very long since the same type of propaganda was used in Indonesia. Yet recently some representatives of that country were our guests here. They were nol exactly what we were told they were. A few years ago we were told that they were about to mount an attack on Australia. That problem has been resolved.

I have painted this broad canvas to illustrate how weak is the report that is before the Senate tonight. In the front of the report there is a map which shows Australia’s position as it really is. We are part of the southern hemisphere and what one could call Greater Asia. There is no possibility of our moving ourselves from that geographical position. To our north there are more than 100 million Indonesians. We have no reason to command the respect of the Vietnamese people in view of the amount of bombs- 500 lb of TNT for each person in Vietnam - we have dropped on them. They have nothing for which to be thankful to us. I mentioned Korea earlier. When we were asked to make a decision about India and Pakistan we ran away, we vacillated and waited until the ball was over. In relation to the Middle East states, we are tied up in all sorts of devious policies under which we do nol declare ourselves. As to the African continent, we are not really friendly with any of the African countries because we are looked upon as a reactionary country aligned to the powers of the past.

There is a new era in the world today. The old colonial idea has been challenged and found wanting. So we have to find a new way of approaching these matters. We will not. find it by calling upon our arma ments industry to build more armaments and enabling the disbursers, purveyors and sellers of war machines to make bigger profits. The waT industries thrive on the sort of atmosphere that this report creates. In this country we have so much to do and so many different avenues on which wo could expend our resources. Yet we have the spectacle of the Japanese coming in and taking over our natural resources. We have overseas investors coming from all directions and finding what a good thing it is to invest in Australia. We have the Country Party people claiming that it is wonderful that the wool industry has been pulled out of its plight; yet when we look at the changeover to the metric system mid the use of the kilogramme-

The PR ESIDENT - Order. I think the honourable senator should get back to the subject matter of the debate, namely, the report of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Senator Young:

– I can tell the honourable senator that the price works out at about 36c per lb.

Senator Young:

– They bought in a lot of wool at 24c per lb.

Senator GAIR:
Leader of the Austraiian Democratic Labor Party · Queensland

– 1 believe that this debate on the report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on the Indian Ocean region is very timely. 1 agree with Senator Carrick that the Committee should be commended for the report which it has presented to us for discussion today. I have listened with great interest to the speeches which have been delivered today on this very important matter. I commend Senator Carrick on the excellent presentation of the case for Australia’s improved defences in the Indian Ocean region. 1 listened with disappointment to the speech delivered by SenatorWheeldon. I believe it was the poorest that I have heard from that gentleman. We have just heard a most remarkable speech by Senator O’Byrne who has endeavoured to represent that everyone who believes in the defence of this country is a warmonger. He said that because we believe that the defences of Ibis country should be improved upon we are inviting war from other countries which are armed to the teeth and which arc equipped with the most modern nuclear weapons. He said that we should stand by and do nothing.’ He referred to Britain’s change of attitude towards Australia and other members of the Commonwealth of Nations. We recognise that Britain is required to leave a great deal of the defence of this country to ourselves and that we cannot continue, as we did for centuries, to hang on to the apron strings- of Britain, America, or any other country for that matter, for our defence, lt is undeniably true that Britain’s navy has sailed the oceans in the defence of democratic countries. It was not surprising to members of the Democratic Labor Party that Britain decided to withdraw from east of Suez. Australia’s former Prime Minister, Sir Robert Menzies, and his successor Mr Holt never believed that such a withdrawal was possible. We were warning against this emergency when we advocated, from the inception of our Party, the need to step up our defence.

Senator O’Byrne mentioned the great change in attitude towards Indonesia. Does he not know or is he not prepared to concede that the coup which failed in Indonesia is the explanation for the change of altitude? I venture the opinion that, if the Russian fleet had been in waters contiguous to Indonesia at the time of the attempt by Sukarno and the communists to take over that country, that coup could have been successful and that Indonesia’s relationship with Australia would not be as it is today. For those who were opposed to the communists the victory was a narrow otic. I commend the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for its report. As Leader of the Democratic Labor Party in the Senate, 1 am gratified with the report because it confirms what we have been saying for years, lt is very satisfying for us to know that a joint committee of Commonwealth parliamentarians are conceding and are prepared to agree that the policies of our Party in this connection-

Senator O’Byrne:

– Surely we do not have to defend ourselves against the Japanese.

Senator Murphy:

Mr President, I rise to a point of order. That remark seems to be a clear reflection upon a member of the House of Representatives which, in the comity which exists between the 2 Houses, ought not to be made in this debate. It is not necessary for sucil an offensive remark to be made. ( suggest that in the proper dealings between the 2 Houses such remarks should nol be permitted.

Senator O’Byrne:

– lt is only a personal attack on him.

Senator MURPHY:
New South WalesLeader of the Opposition

– The Senate fs considering the report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs on the Indian Ocean Region. To my recollection this is the only report of that Committee which has been discussed by the Senate. In view of the establishment of the Senate Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, I suppose the question which will arise some day for our consideration is whether the continued participation of the Senate in the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs is anomalous. It may be that as the Senate has its own parliamentary committee on this subject the efforts of senators would be better concentrated on the work of that committee, thus avoiding spreading the resources of this chamber too thinly. Some consideration may well have to be given to that matter in the future, Mr President.

The report of the Joint Committee does not deal with some matters which I should have thought would be of great concern. These include the fu’ ure of the seabed in the Indian Ocean, which may be a potential cause of conflict in that area. Tt does, however, contain some interesting observations on a matter which has just been referred to by Senator Gair, that is. the Soviet presence in the Indian Ocean. Since about, I think, 1805 Australia has been warned of an imminent threat of the Russians coming down here and getting us. I think they built a fori in the early 1800s to repel the expected Russian invasion: Now, 170 years later, we are still hearing from a certain political party that the Russians are sailing down towards us. The Committee said in paragraph 4 (10) of its report in regard to the presence of the Soviet:

The Soviet . . . naval presence, because of ils size, vulnerability and lack of full naval base facilities, cannot, at present, be considered an aggressive military force or a direct threat to Australia, lt can generally be classed as a political and psychological tool, which increases uncertainty in the region.

The most important Soviet presence in the Indian Ocean region are the initiatives taken in the economic, political, diplomatic and military involvement and assistance which is applied to those major areas of the region in which the Soviet Union seeks to obtain greater influence, power and prestige.

It is clear from those words that the Committee is telling us that really the most important thing being done by the Soviet Union is to take some diplomatic and eco- nomic initiatives. It is clear that the naval’ presence is one which is, in a sense, a showing of the flag - that is the expression used - accompanying the diplomatic and economic initiatives. Quite clearly no country with a responsible approach to its own interests - no doubt the Soviet Union has that - would want to have naval forces of such size as would destroy the effect of the diplomatic and economic initiatives. The report states further at page 56:

The evidence received by the Committee and other sources refuted any suggestion that the Soviet naval presence in the Indian Ocean represented a direct threat to Australian security or our lines of communication unless under the possibility of a situation of general war or just short of general war.

In paragraph 105 the report continued:

It is possible in peace-time to envisage circumstances of East-West tension in areas where facilities may be denied to Australia which are made available to the Soviet Union. But when considering the extremely remote possibility- 1 emphasise those words ‘the extremely remote possibility’ - that the Soviet Union may threaten Australia’s trading communications, it must be remembered that a high proportion of our trade is carried in foreign vessels including Soviet. To interfere with our trade is to interfere with international shipping which would undoubtedly lead to far wider and graver consequences than the original acts.

The report goes on to deal with the psychological factors. It is quite clear that these factors show that the endeavours to create hysteria among the Australian people at the presence of the Soviet naval vessels in the Indian Ocean is a lot of nonsense. The Australian people should not be taken in by the representations of this nature which have been constantly made before elections. These are bad because they mean not only the deception of the people but also that Australia is driven into taking up diplomatic positions and national positions which are not in accordance with the facts and which are against our national interest.

To hear some of the remarks which are made about, the naval vessels one would think that we did not live in the nuclear age. It is quite apparent from what the Committee has said that any problem over naval vessels would arise only if their presence were part of a more genera] conflict, or just short of a more general conflict. That means really that we would be in a situation of general war, or close to it, in which the presence or absence of naval vessels would be immaterial. If we reached such a situation we would be so close to nuclear conflict that the presence or absence of naval vessels would not really matter. The suggestions being made that somehow Australia could play a significant, part in the resolution of such a conflict seem to me to be idle. Until the scourge of war is removed from this earth by the application of some international sanity and the establishment of proper international machinery, along the lines of what has been emerging over the centuries, we must face the possibility that we might be involved in some conflict, so we should deal rationally with the problem of our military security.

If there is one thing that has been established over the centuries, and especially in this century, it is that military security is directly proportional to industrial strength. Military security, except in the extremely short term, does not depend upon the acquisition of armaments, especially from others. One does not purchase security by purchasing warships or by purchasing planes from others, except, I concede, when there is an imminent threat to oneself and then, of course, one procures the armaments and immediate military strength as best one can. It is conceded on all sides that Australia faces no immediate military threat. That has been stated by the former Ministers for Foreign Affairs.It was stated by the former Prime Minister that there was no suggestion of a threat for, say, the next 10 years. So what we face is the problem of our security in the longer term.

What is the lesson that has been taught us? The lesson is that, in such a situation we endeavour to build up our industrial strength. We do not fritter away our military potential, which will depend on our industrial strength, by purchasing armaments which, while increasing that immediate military strength, will deprive us of our industrial strength. This lesson has been shown quite clearly in the case of Japan where, over the last decade or two, there has been an enormous increase in industrial strength and an enormous improvement in the economy. As a consequence there has been an enormous increase in Japan’s military potential and in its strength and security, judged from any angle. At the same time it is significant that that country, which was showing perhaps the greatest advance of the whole world in each of these respects - certainly among the major nations - was at the bottom of the list of those great nations in its expenditure on armaments.

It would be a foolhardy person who would say that the enormous increase in the strength, military potential and security of Japan was not related to the fact that it was not frittering away its long term position by over-expenditure on armaments, especially those procured from elsewhere, in order to have this capacity to ward off imaginary and non-existent threats. So if we really believe in the defence of Australia and in its military security we ought to be able to say: ‘We do nol face any threat for the next 10 years. We will accept what is being said to us by the Government Ministers, that there is no direct threat and there is no possibility of such a threat, and we will set to and build up our industrial strength.’ We have to maintain a certain quantity of armaments and certain defence forces because the situation may change and it could be necessary to build upon them. We should nol fritter away our military potential by purchasing great naval vessels or by preventing our industrial advance by expenditure in all sorts of other ways. We must look at the position rationally and realistically and take the steps necessary to ensure the long term security of our country. I believe that that is what Australia should do in the existing situation, based upon the information we have received and on what has been stated by the Ministers in charge of the Government.

The matters set out in the report have been dealt with in some detail by various honourable senators who have spoken in this debate and I do not propose to deal with them in that way. We seem to have had singled out for us, as if it were the only really important aspect of the report - perhaps it is, because a great deal is said about this - the presence of the Soviet navy and our relations with that country. I believe that the most important step that Australia can take in relation to the Soviet Union is to normalise our relations with that country. We should endeavour, as far as we can, to have normal rela tions in trade, culture, sport and any other activities. As far as possible, the tensions and the conflicts should be reduced. I think, as was suggested in some way by the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, that that ought to be the task of Australia in the Indian Ocean region. Not only should this be the task of Australia in rel a-, tion to countries such as the Soviet Union; we ought to act in that way directly with the Soviet Union.

There are some who would not want such normalisation. There are some who thought, until President Nixon showed the way, that it was unthinkable that one should have the kind of relations that now exist between the United States of America and China. Surely if we want peace in the world we should endeavour to see that these international tensions and conflicts arc reduced to a minimum. It may be that the people on the other side are always devils. Throughout history there have been reds, or greens, or blacks; it is always the other people, whatever their colour may be, who are wrong and we are absolutely right. We were right in the opium war. According to some we were right in the Boer War and the war in Vietnam. Throughout history there always have been those who have said that we were absolutely right; we could never be wrong, and anyone who suggested or hinted that we may in some slight respect have been wrong was a traitor to our country.

Senator DRAKE-BROCKMAN:
Minister for Air · Western Australia · CP

– The contribution by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Murphy) was, I believe, on a much lower key than that of his 2 colleagues earlier in the debate. I think all of us in the Senate and in this Parliament, in fact people throughout Australia, would agree that we should do whatever we can to lessen the tensions between nations throughout the world. But I do not go along with the honourable senator in saying that in working towards this goal we should reduce the defence effort of this nation. Gone are the days when a government representative can walk into some manufacturing firm, in either this country or some other part of the world, and get a piece of sophisticated equipment off the showroom floor like buying a car. You cannot do this. An order for equipment must be placed a considerable time before delivery is required. Also, I think we need to take into consideration that, to man this sophisticated equipment these days, we must have men who have been well trained to use it.

I join with Senator Gair in paying tribute to the Joint Committee on the report that it has produced. I believe that the report is an important document and one which draws attention to matters of considerable impact lo Australia as a whole. It makes suggestion as to certain courses of action which are open to us. I believe that it has a special impact on and interest for Western Australians who for many years have been advocating a better understanding of the importance of the Indian Ocean region with respect to Australia’s vital interests.

Senator Wheeldon:

– Not our waters! Mauritius is not in our waters.

Senator TURNBULL:
TASMANIA · IND; AP from Aug. 1969; IND from Jan. 1970

– If you circulated this we could read it ourselves.

Senator HANNAN:
Victoria

– I believe that tonight, in adverting to the report the Foreign Affairs Committee has placed before the chamber, we are making a breakthrough in a sense as it appears to me to be the first time the significance of the Indian Ocean has been studied by this chamber. In general I support the views outlined in the Committee’s report, although in a couple of places I find it very difficult to see eye to eye with the Committee. For example, at one place the report states that the Soviet fleet is no threat to Australia but in the schedule it lists the vessels which have been using the Indian. Ocean for exercise purposes. These include modern guided missile cruisers, guided missile destroyers, guided missile frigates, conventional submarines and nuclear submarines. Having read that and having taken into account the views put forward by Senator Carrick, we must dismiss for all time the myth that all that the Soviet has in the Indian Ocean is a few armed trawlers.

Since 1968 the Soviet presence in the Indian Ocean has grown. When even the French who withdrew from the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and who last year welcomed so effusively Comrade Brezhnev in Paris - to those who doubt that. I commend the reading of M. Pom.pidou’s speech of welcome at the banquet - when even the French who have gone along with the Russian’s technologically in the matter of the mass media and electronic production see fit to send 6 ships to counter the Russian presence in the Indian Ocean, it can scarcely be claimed that we are crying wolf unnecessarily.

The Soviet Union is a vast empire. It covers more than one-half of Europe and one-third of Asia. Over the past few decades it has made tremendous material and scientific progress. In the scientific field it has notched a number of firsts with its Sputniks. In the development of space research it originally led the United States and has been overtaken only in recent times. The Soviet leaders are people who read history. It is my belief that they have come to the decision that no great empire - that is what the Soviet is; it is an empire; it is the greatest colonial power of the twentieth century - can exist and spread its influence throughout the world without adequate naval forces. 1 realise that nuclear power has changed many things. Nothing can withstand a nuclear explosion but many modern naval vessels are capable of steaming through nuclear fallout.

Going back only as fair as the last century, it was the Navy which stood between Napoleon and his domination of the world as it was then known in Europe. Napoleon never saw the weather beaten, storm tossed British ships but they stood between him and his domination of the world. In the 1914-18 war we saw again the tremendous impact of the Navy in bringing Germany to its knees. The British blockade of 1914-18 was a most powerful and effective weapon in destroying the ability of the Central powers to fight, by destroying what. Senator Murphy called their industrial power, lt is also true that the German counter blockade of 1917 very nearly brought Britain to her knees. Again in the Second World War there was the tremendously effective blockade enforced by the British and the American navies. One does not have to be Mandrake to believe that the Soviet leaders have recognised these facts. Their naval building programme has been phenomenal. At the present time, except in destroyers aand aircraft carriers, the Soviet outnumbers the United States Navy. It is believed, altough there is no certainty of it, that the Soviet Union is building its first aircraft carrier which is believed to be of about 45,000 or 50,000 tons, putting it in the class of the United States carrier ‘Enterprise’. In these circumstances I do not think it is reasonable for our friends opposite to say that in drawing attention to the Soviet presence and the possibilities which emerge from it this is crying wolf. We know the warnings that Hitler gave to the world in the 1930s but no-one took any notice of them. Will we be just as dumb in the present situation?

Paragraph 57 of the report is in these terms:

The USSR must be involved in the Indian Ocean lo satisfy her own interests - nations form their foreign policy from the national interest.

I have read the rest of the report but I can find no coercive argument for that statement. Paragraph 59 of the report is as follows:

Essentially, the USSR’s foreign policy has the following 3 objectives:

The achievement and the maintenance of a strategic balance with the United States;

The extension of Soviet influence both in. a military and an economic sense throughout the world in competition with the United States and other Western powers; and

This is an interesting comment -

The curtailment, as far as possible, of the influence of the People’s Republic of China. 1 can find no warrant in the rest of the report for that contention and I propose to leave the matter rest at that. The Soviet fleet in the Indian Ocean at the present time - a month ago, at all events - was a relatively small number of ships. There was one destroyer, a couple of mine sweepers, a supply ship and an oiler - not exactly the type of fleet to strike terror into the heart of anyone, that I agree. But there are times, and there have been times in history, and there have been occasions even in our own century when even one gunboat has changed the whole issue of some combat, lt is not difficult to imagine that if even such a small fleet as the one T have mentioned had been standing off Indonesia’s shores at the time of the Communist rebellion it. may well have changed the whole course of that country’s history.

Knowing the Soviet’s history of aggression and subversion, no Australian can possibly welcome the arrival in our own waters of representatives of that power. Soviet naval activities are, to say the least, peculiar. For example, it is standard practice for a Soviet trawler to shadow NATO operations. It is standard practice for socalled trawlers to attempt to recover American space vehicles on their return to earth. 1 am informed on credible authority that one such trawler was rammed and sunk by an American destroyer in the course of an attempt to pick up American space equipment on its return to earth.

Senator Wheeldon:

– Shocking.

Senator Mulvihill:

– Why do we not emulate Equador and be a bit brave towards other countries in regard to fishing?

Senator Mulvihill:

– But the Government which the honourable senator supports does not.

Senator Wheeldon:

– What about the 2 Taiwanese vessels which were fishing in our waters?

Senator Cavanagh:

– What has the question as to whether the Russians took our prawns to do with defence?

Senator Mulvihill:

– You are setting up your own aunt sallys and knocking them over.

Senator Wheeldon:

– I did not say that.

Senator Wheeldon:

– I bet that knocked them.

Senator James McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Yes.

Senator Wheeldon:

– Sudan or Spain?

Senator Wheeldon:

– Who told you this?

Senator Milliner:

– Who rejected it? Do you know that?

Senator Mulvihill:

– It was your Government.

Senator Wheeldon:

– Or the Northern Irish.

Senator James McClelland:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– In the city of Sydney, which is part of my electorate, there is a beautiful national reserve on the foreshores of Sydney Harbour known as Ashton Park. I used to live in this district, and when my children were young I used to take them there on some occasions in order that they might breathe a little unpolluted air. On one of my earliest trips to this place I discovered a rather extraordinary structure which on closer examination turned out to be a sandstone gun emplacement complete with cannons. On making a few more inquiries I discovered that they bore the inscription “1853’ and that they had been erected in that year to repel a Russian invasion. As Senator Gair in the course of his remarks chose to refer to some action of the French in the Indian Ocean I would remind him of what strikes me as a rather apposite little French proverb, with which of course he will be no doubt familiar. It goes:

Plus ca change, plus c’est la mam-chose, lt may be loosely translated as follows: The more things change, the more they remain the same. So I think we can draw the conclusion that back in 1853 there was no shortage of Senator Hannans, no shortage of Senator Gairs or Senator Drake-Brockmans, under whatever name they were going in those days, who could imagine that we were under a Russian threat then. But it is rather chastening to think that we have to dig back into the days of 1853 in order to justify the absurd attitude that has been taken by the speakers on the Government side tonight.

I listened to Senator Carrick’s catalogue of perils: The Russian navy is the greatest in the world, it is an all-ocean navy and its strength is given in ‘Jane’s Fighting Ships’, etc. These things confirm all the fears which he attempted to inject into us, but I must confess that as I listeneed to him and as 1 listened to the other speakers from the other side of the chamber I kept asking myself: ‘So what?’ Why do these people imagine that the Russian ships are in the Indian Ocean at all? There is one interesting thing about this, and that is that the ships did not come here last week or last year. They have been doing this since about 1968. I suggest that the reasoon why this has suddenly become a matter of great anxiety to the gentlemen opposite is that they have lost one of their great stocksintrade with which they have been accustomed to giving the Australian people nightmares, especially in election years. They have lost the yellow peril.

Now that our great and powerful ally has started to treat the Chinese as people they need to discover some other threat. So what do we have? They say the Russians are about to land at Fremantle. But 1 suggest that there are very simple explanations for the Russian’s presence in the Indian Ocean at the present time. Russia, as one of 2 or 3 super powers, is in competition with some other super powers, notably with the United States, Japan and China. The practice that these Russian ships have followed since 1968 is to leave the port of Vladivostok about the beginning of the northern winter, sail down and arrive in the northern Indian Ocean - by the way, it is a long way from Fremantle - and hover around there from about November or January until about the following May or June. Some of them would carry missiles but there is no offensive equipment such as aircraft carriers or anything like thai accompanying them.

I suggest that there are 2 obvious reasons why these ships have started to appear in the Indian Ocean. The first is a political reason, that they want to foster non-alignment of the countries in the area with any of the rivals that they see in this super power game. The second is a simple and obvious strategic reason. The United States has developed Polaris missiles with a range of 2,500 miles which, if they were deployed in submarines in “ the Indian Ocean, would threaten any of the cities of the Soviet Union. I know that that is not anything that would disturb Senator Hannan. In fact, I have no doubt that it would do nothing but delight him. but it is something about which I believe the Russians are entitled to feel some legitimate misgivings. It is true that the United States of America has not been in the habit up till now of deploying ships in the Arabian Sea, but it. is something that the Russians have to take into account as a possibility. I believe that all that the Russians are doing is going in for a little bit of area familiarisation. I do not feel scared by the presence there nor do the people who wrote the report. It is interesting to note that in almost everything Senator Hannan said he could find no support for his nightmares in the report and had to fall back on his own neuroses, with which this chamber is so familiar.

Mention has been made of danger to our sea lanes and some authorities or alleged authorities have been referred to tonight. Reference has been made to Jane’s Fighting Ships’ and Admiral Peek. It is true that Senator Hannan did not refer to any authorities. He dragged everything off the top of his head and said: Tt is said’ or ‘lt is, of course, well known”. However, there was some attempt by some of the other speakers in the debate to refer to authorities. So on this question of danger to our sea lanes lel me refer to a very interesting article written by a man named Geoffrey Jukes, who is a Fellow in International Relations in the School of Pacific Studies at the Australian National University. This article appeared recently in one of the Fairfax newspapers. the National Times’. If the Senate will bear with me, I wish to make a short quotation from that article. Mr Jukes wrote:

While these are theoretical possibilities - that is the alleged threat to sea lanes - they seem over-ambitious for a handful of warships, operating from a base several thousand miles away and without air cover. Even if these handicaps could be overcome it is well to realise, as the Russians undoubtedly do, the consequences of such action.

Nearly half the world’s tanker tonnage belongs to NATO countries, and when Japanese tankers; plus those registered in Liberia but owned inAmerica (and in the last resort likely to call on the United States Navy rather than the 200-man Liberian Navy for protection) are included. 80 per cent of world tankers are owned by America or one of its allies.

To interfere with these is to confront the major maritime powers, whose navies control the waters in which the Soviet merchant fleet (second largest in numbers of ships, sixth largest in tonnage) sails. These include the Danish Straits and the Bosporus, each less than 3 miles wide, through which 85 per cent of Soviet seaborne foreign trade has to pass. Only in a context of imminent world war is it likely that the Russians would want to take the risk, and in that context we and they would have more urgent problems than that of freedom of the seas.

I believe that to be the realistic background against which we have to consider these problems and free our minds of the hysteria which is part and parcel of the approach of people on the Government side of the chamber whenever they talk on the question of national defence. I feel a certain sympathy for honourable senators opposite. It is well known thai quite recently they were caught with their pants down in the matter of relations with

China. After having been assured by the Prime Minister (Mr McMahon) that anybody who spoke to the Chinese was practically equivalent to a traitor to his country, honourable senators opposite were confronted overnight with the spectacle of Australia’s great and powerful ally treating the Chinese as human beings. Having lost the scare which operated particularly to Senator Gair’s advantage in whipping up a few votes in Queensland on the supposition that the little yellow men who were waiting beside their sampans to come down here and rape our womenfolk were closer to Queensland than they were to anywhere else, they are now trying to compensate by perhaps winning back a few seats in Western Australia by this newly manufactured fantasy that we are about to have Russians land on the coast of Western Australia. I am afraid that is a horse which just will not run and that, as Senator O’Byrne said, the obsession with keeping up with the Joneses militarily is an outdated approach to security. Our best defence is to establish good relations with as many Indian Ocean communities as possible and to abandon this philosophy of fear and xenophobia which may have kept the present coalition Government in office for 20 years but which has been of poor service to the people of Australia.

Senator TURNBULL:
TASMANIA · IND; AP from Aug. 1969; IND from Jan. 1970

– 1 rise to speak on only 2 matters which have arisen out of the discussion on the report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs now before us. I refer to, firstly, the question of defence and, secondly, the question of who is going to take over Australia. In regard to the question of defence, I agree wholeheartedly with Senator Gair’s statement that it is time Australia did something about her own defence. I cannot understand the attitude of the Australian Government to defence. Over the last 22 years it has done nothing about defence. We have been lucky that there has been no need for Australia to defend herself in that time. Nevertheless the Government has shown little regard for Australia as a whole by not adopting a real defensive attitude. It should be realised that for many years only 1 per cent of our gross national product was spent on defence and that the figure then went up to 2 per cent. About 5 years ago it increased to 3 per cent and then because of the Fill fiasco it went up to 5 per cent. However, the percentage of our gross national product now spent on defence has decreased now to about 3 per cent. One can see how little Australia is spending on defence when one compares our expenditure on defence with the expenditure of other countries. For example, Great Britain spends about 9 per cent of its gross national product on defence and the United States of America spends between 12 per cent and 15 per cent.

Senator Murphy was quite correct when he said that a nation can become industrially strong by not spending its money on defence. But we have not spent much money on defence for 25 years, yet we are not as strong industrially as such countries as Japan and the USA. In all that time, if Senator Murphy’s theory is correct, we should have been building up our industry as we were not spending money on defence. However, we cannot escape the fact that the time has come for us to do something about defence. The Government just cannot leave Australia as defenceless for the next 20 years as it has been in the past. It is time Australia spent some money on defence. Everyone knows that spending money for defence purposes, is not sound electorally as it does not buy votes. That is one reason why the Government has not been spending money. After all, the USA has been in the background to help out. However, it is not in the background any longer and it is time that we realised that that is the position and did something about it.

I do not quite know how Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson got into the act, but somehow or other I asked him a question about 3 years ago concerning an article by Stewart Harris of the ‘London Times’ that the British aircraft carrier ‘Hermes’ was available for the Australian Government to take over. Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson put paid lo tho idea of Stewart Harris and said: ‘Fancy listening to a journalist’; but tonight Senator Hannan raised the very same point that we could have obtained the ‘Hermes’ for practically peanuts and we could have been training a crew for all this time instead of now looking around for an aircraft carrier, which will be terribly expensive.

Senator Hannan:

– It was refitted in 1970.

page 83

ADJOURNMENT

Australian Nationals in the United Kingdom

Senator MULVIHILL:
New South Wales

– I want to raise a matter relating to the status of Australian nationals in the United Kingdom. On 4th November last year I addressed a question on notice through Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson to the Prime Minister (Mr McMahon) asking for a clear-cut exposition of the United Kingdom Immigration Act with respect to its effects generally on Australians entering Britain. Honourable senators may recall that on that occasion there was some doubt in the minds of Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson, who represents the Prime Minister in this chamber, and Senator Cotton, who represents the Minister for Immigration (Dr Forbes), as to who would be responsible for securing an answer for me. lt was significant also that when I raised the matter we were told that the Australian High Commissioner in London had discussed this issue with the British Home Secretary. At this time also the Melbourne ‘Age’ and, I think, the Canberra Times’ were referring to the definition of ‘patriarchal’ and other similar expressions. At that time there was a reference to the status of Australians compared with the status of nationals of European Common Market countries. It will be recalled that at this time Great Britain was tottering on the brink of joining the European Common Market. Consequently, all these matters were germane to the thoughts of many Australians.

I realised that my question probably required much research as it involved giving an answer in depth, but strangely enough, just before Christmas Eve, a momentous event occurred al the Heathrow Airport in Britain. No less a person than the New South Wales Agent General, Sir Jock Pagan, suddenly realised that he agreed with me. When he arrived at the exit from the airport he found 2 gateways, one marked ‘British passports’ and the other displaying the sign ‘NonBritish passports’. Sir Jock Pagan decided that as he held an Australian passport and was an Australian citizen and British subject he would object to leaving through the gateway marked ‘Non-British passports’. This was one aspect on which 1 had sought an answer in my question addressed to the Prime Minister. When 1 heard of this event I immediately, 3 days in a row, sent telegrams to the Prime Minister asking for an answer to my question of 4th November and pointing out that the incident involving Sir Jock Pagan was a corollary to the matters 1 had raised. I pointed out that I wanted an answer because this was one of the points that had worried me. ] asked whether the Prime Minister had had discussions with the British Prime Minister, Mr Edward Heath, during his visit to the United Kingdom.

In communicating with the Prime Minister I raised also the matter of the status of people coming to Australia, a point which 1 thought was worth making and which many honourable senators including my colleagues, Senator Willesee and Senator Cavanagh, considered to be of importance. We are now going through a new phase in which many of our own nationals are going to the United Kingdom or to the United States of America. I shall put Sir Kenneth Anderson at ease by informing him that although I have something to say about the United States I have not all my ammunition ready on that aspect and so I shall not develop it tonight. However, I suggest seriously that Sir Jock Pagan, in taking this stand, was not adopting the attitude of an exhibitionist. He is a very illustrious citizen of New South Wales and was in London as the New South Wales Agent General. Before that he had been a very close friend of Senator Carrick as President of the Liberal Party in New South Wales. I think Senator Wheeldon will agree that the attitude taken by Sir Jock Pagan was not that of an exhibitionist. He must have made a considered decision on whether he would highlight this matter.

I want to be quite fair in referring to officers of the Prime Minister’s Department and also to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson. As late as tonight I had a con versation with officers of the Prime Minister’s Department. When I received today the reply to my question I asked my secretary whether it contained any reference to Sir Jock Pagan. She said that it did not. I suggested to Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson’s staff that the answer was not good enough because in the course of 3 telephone conversations in January with officers of the Prime Minister’s Department I had warned them that I wanted an answer not only to my question of 4th November but also about the incident involving the Agent General for New South Wales. 1 notice that Senator Wheeldon is nodding his head, signifying that he also would like to know about this. Sir Jock Pagan obviously was not satisfied about the status of Australians in Great Britain, and neither was I. For that matter, it is obvious that the Premier of New South Wales, Sr Robert Askin, was not satisfied either. I think honourable senators would agree that the Agent General for New South Wales would not put on an exhibitionist trick.

In the report of this incident in the Canberra Times’ of 23rd December he said: T am an Australian citizen and a British subject. 1 have an Australian passport and I want to know why T have to go through this “Non-British passport” gate.’ The crunch was that he was passed through a middle gate at Heathrow Airport. In my telephone conversations with officers of the Prime Minister’s Department on at least 4 occasions I warned them that I wanted to convey the message that every Australian leaving an aircraft at Heathrow Airport was required to pass through a gateway marked ‘Non-British passports’. 1 would not resent it for one moment if Prime Minister Heath said that it was a matter of policy, but the point that stands out very clearly is that our Prime Minister should have discussed this matter with Edward Heath during his visit to London. Officers of the Prime Minister’s Department told me as late as this evening that time was needed to provide an answer in depth. This is not the age of the packet boat when dispatches came out from London to Governor Bourke or Governor Macquarie. Messages now come by radio telephone and things can be done much more quickly.

This is the first instalment of a series of utterances that Senator Willesee, possibly

Senator Cavanagh andI will be making on one or two aspects of the status of Australians in overseas countries. 1 do not for one moment blame Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson or his staff, but I ask respectfully that what I have said be conveyed to the Prime Minister. Like every honourable senator, I have a host of faults, but one thing in my favour is that usually I am rather direct and leave nothing to the imagination when asking for something I want. What I want now is an answer to my question. It was not good enough to be told today that the other matters 1 had raised would require much research in depth. The incident to which I have referred occurred on 23rd December and it is now the middle of February. Surely to goodness we are entitled to know what the status of Australians is in Great Britain, especially after the incident involving Sir Jock Pagan. J believe, as Senator Wheeldon believes, that Sir Jock Pagan was testing the situation because he felt that Australians were being treated as second-raters. Senator Douglas McClelland is nodding his head in agreement, so apparently Opposition senators are unanimous on this matter.

I know that it is not an easy chore for Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson to provide the information, but it is not good enough that a New South Wales Liberal leader should have to join a socialist senator from Sydney on the same theme song. We want to know why it has taken 9 weeks to get an explanation of this facet of the United Kingdom Immigration bill. J leave the matter with the Minister. The answer I received sets out certain guidelines, but it st ill doss not answer the question about the arrival at Heathrow Airport of an Australian with an Australian passport containing the words ‘Australian citizen, British subject’. I want to know why our Prime Minister, William McMahon, did not discuss matters of this kind with Edward Heath.

I am prompted by an almost inaudible remark from Senator Cavanagh to mention an interesting analogy. I remind Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson by way of friendly criticism that on the last occasion when I raised this matter when the session was ending last year I noticed a look between him and Senator Cotton which seemed to indicate: Fancy his raising this matter; it is small potatoes. I remind him that no less a person than a former United States President, Senator Lyndon Johnson, had problems with the American Federation of Labour over the influx of Mexican farm labourers, known as wetbacks, coming over the border into California. If the AFL was able to persuade an American President to take up with the Mexican President the status of Mexicans entering the United States, in the lengthy discussions between our Prime Minister and Edward Heath the matters that I have raised should have been finalised. They should not have been left to the New South Wales Agent General or to me. I know I have made the point loud and clear and I will leave it to Senator Sir Kenneth Anderson to suggest quietly to the Prime Minister’s Department that it will have to do a little bit better than provide answers of this nature.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON (New South Wales Minister for Health) (10.40) - I do not want to say a great deal. There is no doubt that Senator Mulvihill hits made his point loud and clear. Whatever faults he may have he does not lack persistence. He not only put his questions on notice; he had 4 telephone conversations and sent about 3 telegrams in connection with this matter. In my book he deserves an accolade. However, seriously. I have been assured by the Prime Minister’s Department that it was not intended to bypass the Pagan incident.It wasthought that the honourable senator mentioned the matter as background to the situation that could apply. It was thought that the Pagan incident only pointed up the actual circumstances which arose when an attempt was made to push an Australian citizen through the wrong gate. I am assured also that the Prime Minister’s Department will set out to give an answer in depth. This could be done in 2 ways. The matter can be left on the basis of having been mentioned during this debate on the motion for the adjournment or, alternatively, it can be dealt with by putting a question on notice which. I am assured, will be picked up and the point made will be answered in depth.

Senator Sir KENNETH ANDERSON:
LP

– Very well, the former arrangement it shit be.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 22 February 1972, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1972/19720222_senate_27_s51/>.