Senate
20 October 1949

18th Parliament · 2nd Session



The President (Senator the Hon. Gordon Brown) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1687

QUESTION

COAL

Senator COOKE:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I address the following questions to the Minister for Shipping and Fuel : Does’ the production of coal in Western Australia come under the jurisdiction of the Joint Coal Board? If not, is there any reason why the board should not control the production of coal in that State? Will the coalminers in Western Australia enjoy the benefit of improvements recently decided upon for miners working black coal on the same basis and simultaneously with the introduction of those improvements in New South Wales? If not, what action is necessary by the Government of Western Australia, or by the Western Australian branch of the coal-miners’ union, in order to enable miners in that State to obtain those benefits?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Since the honorable senator was good enough to give me prior notice of his questions, I have obtained the information with which to furnish answers to them. The production of coal in Western Australia does not come within the ambit of the Joint Coal Board, and the board could not extend its control to that State unless a special arrangement were made by the Western Australian Government to enable the board to extend its operations to embrace the production of coal in Western Australia. For that purpose it would be necessary for the Government of Western Australia to appoint a representative to the Joint Coal Board. When the board was established, Western Australia, in common with all other States, was given the opportunity, to place its coal production under the ambit of the board, but it declined to do so. Instead, the Government of that State established a miners’ welfare fund, and it imposes a levy on coal produced in that State to finance the operations of the welfare board. The Australian Government has decided to subsidize that fund £1 for every £1 contributed by the Government of Western Australia. If the Government of Western Australia desired the Joint Coal Board to extend its operations to include that State, it would be necessary for a special agreement to be made between the respective governments. As I have already informed Senator Cooke, a representative would then be appointed to the board and sit on it.

Senator FINLAY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Last evening the Minister for Shipping and Fuel informed the Senate that the Commonwealth had made available an amount of £150,000 to assist the South Australian Government in connexion with the development of the Leigh Greek coal-field. Will the Minister inform me whether the Commonwealth has assisted, and co-operated with, the South Australian Government in any other direction in the winning of coal from this field ?

Senator ASHLEY:

– As I have already informed the Senate, the Commonwealth has assisted the South Australian Government to the amount of £150,000 for .the purchase of machinery and equipment for use on the Leigh Creek coal-field. It has also subsidized freights. I shall obtain information about all forms of financial assistance that have been extended by the Commonwealth to South Australia in connexion with this matter and supply it to the honorable senator as soon as possible.

page 1688

QUESTION

WHEAT

Senator O’BYRNE:
TASMANIA

– -I preface my question to the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture by reminding him of the proposal of the Australian Wheat Board to discontinue financial assistance to Tasmania to enable it to supply wheat at the price obtaining on the mainland ? In view of the fact that the cost of production of bread, eggs, and ‘pork, which are basic staple commodities, will be increased because of the withdrawal of this assistance, will the Minister endeavour to have the implementation of this decision withheld for sufficient time to permit the Tasmanian wheat-growers to plant more wheat in the coming season, so that they will be able to maintain an adequate supply of that commodity to the industries that will be vitally affected by the proposed increase of the price of wheat?

Senator COURTICE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · QUEENSLAND · ALP

– I realize that this matter is of very great importance to the wheat-growers of Tasmania. I know that the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has already considered it. I shall, however, bring the honorable senator’s question to the notice of the Minister and endeavour to obtain a reply as soon as possible.

page 1689

QUESTION

HIGH COURT

Senator SANDFORD:
VICTORIA

– In view of the reported statements by Mr. Menzies, Mr. Fadden and Mr. Spender concerning the alleged intention of this Government to “ stack “ the High Court with partisan justices, can the Minister representing the Attorney-General inform the Senate whether it is a fact that the present Chief Justice of the High Court, Sir John Latham, was appointed direct from this Parliament to that position? I emphasize that I do not cast any reflection upon the judicial integrity of the Chief Justice. I merely want to know whether the appointment was made direct from this Parliament.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health · TASMANIA · ALP

– The answer to the honorable senator’s question is in the affirmative. The present Chief Justice of the High Court was appointed from the position of Attorney-General by the Government of which he was a member.

page 1689

QUESTION

PUBLIC OPINION POLL

Senator O’BYRNE:

– Has the Minister for Shipping and Fuel seen the front page of this week’s edition of Smith’s Weekly, which gives particulars of interviews with 1,000 housewives in Sydney about their political views? Has he noted that 850 of the 1,000 housewives interviewed acclaimed Mr. Chifley as a good sane leader who did not allow himself to be rattled and gave the impression of knowing his job ? The quality that the women admired most was his “ homespun dignity “. Has the Minister also noted that 80 per cent of those who were interviewed regarded Mr. Menzies as the “glamour boy” of Parliament; but that 600 of them did not quite trust him and very few held him up as an inspiration or a great leader?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– I have not seen the article mentioned by the honorable senator, but I am considerably surprised that it should have been published. I should say that the women who were interviewed showed sound judgment, which no doubt will be upheld when the general election is held on the 10th December.

page 1689

QUESTION

PETROL

Senator AYLETT:
TASMANIA

– I ask the Minis ter for Shipping and Fuel whether the Government, if it takes over petrol rationing, as it evidently will have to do eventually, will make provision for the re-opening of bowsers in country towns that may have been closed by monopoly organizations. I have in mind a bowser at Beaconsfield, which, I understand, Sir Gordon Rolph controls as theresult of having bought the petrol retailing business there. Will the Minister ensure that new licences shall be issued for the installation of petrol bowsers to replace any that may have been closed in that way?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The provision of new petrol bowsers has never been a function of this Government. Even during the period of rationing that was a matter for the petrol companies. However, I shall have inquiries made into the particular case mentioned by the honorable senator when rationing is re-introduced. Until that happens, the Government will have no power over the wholesale or retail distribution of petrol.

page 1689

REPORTS OF PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
QUEENSLAND

– I present the reports of the Public Works Committee on the following subjects: -

Proposed erection of a Commonwealth office building at Hobart, Tasmania.

Proposed erection of the National Library and Roosevelt Memorial, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory.

Ordered to be printed.

Proposed construction of a wharf at Darwin, Northern Territory.

page 1689

QUESTION

LAND SETTLEMENT OF EX-SERVICEMEN

Senator SANDFORD:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Postwar Reconstruction, upon notice -

  1. What progress has been made in soldier settlement in the Loxton and Berri areas in South Australia?
  2. How long will it be before the approved areas are in commercial production?
  3. Has the Government availed itself of the services of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in the development of these areas?
Senator McKENNA:
ALP

– The Minister for. Post-war Reconstruction nas supplied the following answers : - 1 and 2. The Loxton irrigation project, which comprises approximately 11,655 acres, was unproved on the 9th February, 1940, by the Commonwealth for inclusion in the war service land settlement scheme. Subsequent to this date, negotiations were completed for purchase of the area from private owners and the State. Before actual settlement of the area, could take place, further detailed investigation concerning the suitability of the various soils for irrigation and the liability to frost had to be undertaken ; principles also had to be laid down on which to base the size of the holdings for horticultural and viticultural farming and thu developmental work which covers not only the development of the individual blocks, but also the provision of headworks for irrigation had to be planned.

To date the Commonwealth had agreed to the subdivision of tin urea of 3,558 acres to provide over 100 blocks for settlement. These blocks range in size from about 21i acres to 44 acres depending upon the area of the various types of vines and citrus to be planted. The State authorities have .advised that 58 persons arc in actual occupation of their blocks and are assisting in the developmental work and tending the plantings under the supervision of State officers. The period of development ranges from four to six years, according to the type of plantings, and the settlers are assisted during this time by being advanced a living allowance at the rates prescribed under the Re-establishment and Employment Act. In addition, during the developmental period the returns from plantings and cash crops will be available to the settler as income.

This arrangement will continue until such time as the holdings become productive, when the statutory assistance period will commence and the settlers paid the free living allowance for a period of twelve months’ during which no rent or interest charges on capital have to be paid. It is expected that additional subdivisions providing further holdings for settlement at Loxton will be forthcoming from the State authorities in the near future. An indication of the extent of the development to be carried on at Loxton is given by the estimates of cost for effecting the necessary work. The estimates as approved by the Commonwealth are £3,200,000, and it is thought that the final cost of the scheme including the settlement of dry lands in the area will considerably exceed this figure. Settlement in the Berri irrigation area is confined to single unit holdings which have been acquired from private owners. There are four such holdings all of which are developed and under production. These areas are available for immediate allotment to eligible and suitable exservicemen. As these areas are already developed there will bc no delay in commercial production.

  1. The State Parliamentary Committee on Land Settlement which originally investigated the suitability of the area for inclusion in the scheme, placed considerable reliance on the evidence supplied by the Soils Division of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization. The information made available to the committee was based on soil reconnaissance surveys which had been undertaken from time to time. The State Committee also availed itself of the information supplied by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, in respect of irrigation, drainage, salinity and liability to frost. After the proposal had been agreed to by the Commonwealth and before detailed planning of the subdivision had taken place, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization undertook a more detailed soil survey of the area, the results of which furnished the data upon which the detailed planning of the area was based.

One of the factors affecting settlement of the Loxton irrigation area was the incidence of frost, and sin examination as to the liability of this danger was undertaken by the Department of Agriculture, South Australia. This investigation was made under the guidance of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, which also undertook the statistical analysis of the recorded temperatures. It might be said, therefore, that the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization has co-operated closely in the planning of the settlement in the Loxton irrigation area and, in fact, is still associated with this work.

page 1690

QUESTION

CORNSACKS

Senator MORROW:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the price of jute has risen by 30 per cent, on the Indian market?
  2. Is there any truth in the suggestion that wheat sacks will cost 45s. or thereabouts a dozen to land in Australia?
  3. If the price of sacks is increased to or near the above-stated figure, who will be obliged to pay the difference - the Government or the farmer?
Senator COURTICE:
ALP

– The Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has supplied the following answers : -

  1. The maximum price, fixed by the Indian Government this week, for cornsacks, for October, delivery is 3.1s. 7d. a dozen c.i.f.
  2. The price quoted would mean about 42s. compared wtih the present selling price of 33s. a dozen.
  3. Any price increase would be passed on to the Australian consumer. As substantial supplies of cornsacks, bought at lower prices, are available, Australian users will get the benefit of the earlier purchases when prices are being adjusted.

page 1691

TARIFF BOARD

Annual Report

Senator COURTICE:
QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs · ALP

– I lay on the table the following paper : -

Tariff Board Act - Tariff Board - Annual Report for Year 1948-4.9, together with summary of recommendations.

Ordered that the report only he printed.

page 1691

QUESTION

APRICOTS

Senator MURRAY:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that a disease known as brown rot threatens to destroy the apricotgrowing industry in Tasmania?
  2. Have any requests been made by State governments for aid from the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in conducting research into the cause and prevention of this disease?
  3. If so, is there any information available concerning brown rot which could be passed on to the Agricultural Department in Tasmania?
  4. If not, will the Minister give consideration to providing scientific help with a view to discovering means of combating this disease?
Senator McKENNA:
ALP

– The Minister for Post-war Reconstruction has supplied the following answers: -

  1. The disease of brown rot is probably more rampant in Tasmania than in any other State owing to weather conditions being more suitable to its spread. The view has been expressed that, if uncontrolled, the disease threatens to destroy the industry in Tasmania.
  2. No.
  3. Officers of the Tasmanian Department of Agriculture are fully informed concerning present methods of control.
  4. The Departments of Agriculture in Victoria and Tasmania are carrying out trials in their respective States on the use of new organic fungicides for the control of the rot.

page 1691

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN RAILWAYS UNION

Loo of Claims

Senator MORROW:

asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice -

When will the log of claims lodged in the Arbitration Court during October, 1946, by the Australian Railways Union on behalf of the Tasmanian section, again come before the Arbitration Court for finalization ?

Senator McKENNA:
ALP

– The AttorneyGeneral has supplied the following answer to the honorable senator’s question : -

A general log covering New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania was filed by the Australian Railways Union, as stated by the honorable senator. In February, 1947, the late Chief Judge made an interim award applicable to those States, including Tasmania. Since then, the hearing of further sections of the log has been proceeded with when so required by the union and many orders have been made applicable to all States. If the hearing of any particular claim is desired by the union, an approach should be made to Mr. Conciliation Commissioner J. M. Galvin, who is one of the commissioners to whom the railway industry has been assigned by the Chief Judge.

“PESTOX THREE.”

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction, v ion notice -

  1. Has the Mini, ..er’s attention been drawn to a new method of pest control employed in the United Kingdom whereby an insecticide known as “ Pestox Three “ produced by Pest Control Ltd., of Cambridge, has been used with complete success in controlling pests of the aphis tribe?
  2. Will the Minister ask the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization to examine the new method of aphis eradication with a view to the possibility of its use in Australia?
Senator McKENNA:

– The Minister for Post-war Reconstruction ha3 supplied the following answers to the honorable senator’s questions: -

  1. The Division of Entomology of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization knows of this insecticide.
  2. The division proposes to carry out some tests as soon as practicable.

page 1691

SUGAR AGREEMENT BILL 1949

Bill presented by Senator Courtice, and read a first time.

Motion (by Senator Ashley) put -

That so much of the Standing and Sessional Orders be suspended as would prevent the bill being passed through its remaining stages without delay.

The PRESIDENT:

– There being an absolute majority of the whole number of senators present, and no dissentient voice, I declare the question resolved in the affirmative.

Second Reading

Senator COURTICE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Queensland · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The bill is to approve the Second Supplementary Sugar Agreement made this month between the Commonwealth Government and the Government of Queensland. Under this agreement the Commonwealth and Queensland governments agree to amend the existing sugar agreement to provide for an increase of £4 2s. 8d. per ton in the wholesale price of refined sugar of 1a grade, and for the prices of sugars of other grades, as at present fixed under the existing sugar agreement, to be increased commensurately. The new maximum prices compared with the existing prices will be as follows : -

An increase of £4 2s. 8d. a ton in the wholesale price would affect the retail price of refined sugar by £4 13s. 4d. a ton, that is, by id. per lb. The present retail price in capital cities is 4£d. per lb. The remaining clauses of the present sugar agreement will remain intact. The only purpose of the supplementary agreement is to increase the prices set out in clause 5 of the agreement. The decision by the Government to recommend to the Parliament the amendment of the existing sugar agreement to provide for the increased prices was made after consultation with the Queensland Government, which had requested the price increases on behalf of the sugar industry, and after a close survey of the present position and future prospects of the sugar industry.

When the original agreement with the Queensland Government was signed in

October, 1945, the Commonwealth Government gave an assurance to the sugar industry that, if during the currency of the agreement cost levels in Australia increased substantially, it would he prepared, on representations from the Queensland Government, to give consideration to the industry’s position. On the 3rd December, 1947, the Commonwealth Parliament approved a bill to amend the sugar agreement to increase the wholesale price of refined sugar hy £4 2s. 8d. a ton. The Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley), in announcing approval of that increase to the industry, stated that the increase would have to cover the cost of the 40-hour week.

The sugar industry, in again requesting an increase of £4 2s. 8d. a ton, has shown that although an increase of £4 2s. 8d. was granted in 1947, only £1 3s. remained for the industry in respect of the 1948 season, and it estimates that for the 1949 season increased costs will not only have eliminated the price increase granted in 1947, but will have exceeded that amount by about £1 a ton. The net returns to millers and growers from sales in Australia have been as follows: -

This shows that the return from home-consumption sales has declined from £24 a ton in 1947 to the estimate of £21 a ton in 1949. The 1949 value will be the lowest since 1919, and nearly £3 a ton lower than the average over the last twenty years.

While the price for export sugar is at present higher than the home consumption price, nevertheless, the net return from sales of sugar on the domestic market has always been recognized as the major stabilizing factor in the industry’s economy. Undoubtedly the industry has had to meet sharp rises in costs since the last price increase in December, 1947. Even though some part of the overall increase in costs which has occurred since 1947 must be regarded as having been taken into account by the Commonwealth at that time, substantial increases over and above these costs still remain.

The main reasons for the lower returns to the industry are stated by the Queensland Sugar Board to be the increased costs of transport, packages and refining charges. For instance, interstate shipping freight rates on raw sugar have increased by £2 2s. a ton since 1947. In addition to the substantial fall in its net return n ton from raw sugar sold for home consumption purposes, due to the increased costs of marketing its sugar locally, the industry also claims that in growing the cane and producing raw sugar it has had to meet increased costs not reasonably anticipated in 1947 and far in excess of those attributable to the 40-hour week. It has listed the principal components of these increases as: (a) wages; (6) rail freights; (c) materials and replacement costs.

On the subject of wages the industry states -

Not only lias the industry been required to carry the 40-hour week increase in wage costs, but additional and far sharper increases. It shows wage costs have increased 28 per cent, since 1947, and of this only 10 per cent, can be attributed to the 40-hour week leaving an increase of IS per cent, not accounted for in the remarks of the Prime Minister to the delegation in 1947 and certainly not anticipated by the industry when presenting its case.

In May, 1948, the Queensland railways increased freight on sugar cane by 37-J per cent, and freight on raw sugar by per cent. Referring to materials and replacement costs the industry reports -

Since 1947 there has been a sharp rise in the costs of practically all materials and items of plant and equipment essential for canegrowing and raw sugar manufacture. This rise is so general and so well known that detailed elaboration is unnecessary.

The industry points out that whilst it envisaged replacement costs in the 1947 case as being at that time between 40 per cent, and 50 per cent, higher than in prewar years, actually replacement costs now show an increase twice that stated in the 1947 case. In its case the sugar industry also claimed that it should be relieved, for the time being, of the payment of its contribution of £216,000 per annum to the Fruit Industry Sugar Concession Committee because that committee has large accumulated funds. It is true that the committee has funds totalling over £800,000, which have accumulated due to the non-payment of export sugar rebates during recent years. That is because the prices obtained for sugar overseas have been higher than the Australian price.

The Government considered this proposal of the sugar industry, but waa unable to approve of it. The contribution by the sugar industry to the fruit industry has operated for very many years, and has, to a great extent, been by mutual arrangement between the two industries. Jam contains approximately 60 per cent, sugar, and therefore it is in the sugar industry’s own interests to encourage the sale of fruit products. The funds of the Fruit Industry Sugar Concession Committee, apart from being used for purposes of domestic and export rebates, may also be used for the purpose of promoting “ the use and sale of Australian manufactured fruit products in the Commonwealth of Australia or overseas “. Therefore the Government could not agree to any action which might jeopardize the fruit and fruit processing industries. The sugar industry has presented a sound case, and the Government is satisfied that the increase of the price of sugar is justified.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper adjourned.

page 1693

NORTHERN TERRITORY (ADMINISTRATION) BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Courtice) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator COURTICE:
QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to give effect to amendments of the principal act, which have been recommended by the Legislative Council for the Northern Territory. Under the existing act, the Administrator appoints the times at which the Legislative Council shall meet. The council has recommended an amendment of the principal act to provide that at the request of a substantial number of members the Administrator shall call a meeting of the council. The bill provides that at the request of seven members, corresponding to a quorum of the council, the Administrator shall call a meeting for a date not later than fourteen days after he receives the request.

The council considers that as the act provides for the Administrator to preside at meetings of the council it would be more appropriate that he should be addressed as the “ President “ instead of the “ Chairman “ as specified in the existing act. It is felt that the proposed change to president would add prestige to the position of an officer presiding over a legislative ‘body.

A further amendment recommended by the council is the extension of the Tennant Creek electoral district. The hill provides that the district shall be extended to cover the area contained within a circle having a radius of 40 miles measured from the Tennant Creek Post Office, in lieu of a radius of 20 miles as at present. The increased area will include a number of the mining areas which rightly belong to the Tennant Creek district. The extended Tennant Creek district would encroach upon the present Stuart electoral district. The bill therefore provides for the exclusion from the Stuart district of that portion of the extended Tennant Creek district south of the twentieth degree of south latitude. A consequential alteration to the Batchelor electoral district will therefore be necessary.

The bill, if passed, will come into operation on the day on which it receives the Royal Assent. The reason for this provision is that the electoral rolls to be used for the forthcoming Legislative Council election close on the 31st October. It will therefore he necessary for the alteration of the boundary of the electoral district of Tennant Creek and the consequential alteration of the boundaries of the electoral districts of Batchelor and Stuart to become effective before that date so that the necessary alterations may be made to the respective electoral rolls.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1694

STATES GRANTS (COAL STRIKE EMERGENCY) BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
New South “WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this hil] is to authorize the payment from Consolidated Revenue in 1949-50 of a grant of £8,000,000 to alleviate the hurden .placed on State budgets by reason of the coal strike, coal shortages, and associated effects. The impact of the strike on the finances of the States was discussed at the recent conference of Commonwealth and State Ministers, and it was apparent that despite the increase of approximately £8,750,000 expected in the tax reimbursement grant in 1949-50, the States would experience serious financial difficulties this year because of the effects on their budgets of the coal strike and coal shortages.

Honorable senators will appreciate that it would not be possible to estimate precisely the losses or additional costs incurred by the State governments by reason of the coal strike and its associated effects. At that meeting of Commonwealth and State Ministers, information was submitted containing estimates of the effects of the coal position on the States’ budgets, particularly in relation to the finances of business undertakings such as the railways. After considering these estimates and the other aspects submitted by the State Ministers, the Government has decided to pay to the States in 1949-50 a special non-recurring grant of £8,000,000. Distribution of the grant among the States will be in the same proportions as the tax reimbursement grant payable to the States this year. The precise amount so payable to each State will not be known until the Commonwealth .Statistician completes his calculations of the tax reimbursement payable to each State this year. However, a preliminary estimate suggests that the distribution of this grant of £8,000,000 will be approximately as follows: -

I commend the bill to honorable senators.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooker) adjourned.

page 1695

STATES GRANTS (ADMINISTRATION OF CONTROLS REIMBURSEMENT) BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

.- I move-

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to continue during 1949-50 the arrangement for the reimbursement to the States of the costs incurred by them in the administration of prices, rents and land sales controls. The States Grants (Administration of Controls Reimbursement) Act 1948 was operative until the 30th June, 1949, and this measure, in effect, provides for the period of the grants to be extended to the 30th June, 1950. In the Government’s view, the States should not be influenced by financial considerations in deciding the extent and duration of these controls, and further financial assistance is desirable to enable them to exercise effectively those controls which they deem necessary in the interests of general economic stability. The sum of £800,000, which was based on figures initially supplied by the States, . has been provided in the 1949-50 Estimates for those purposes. The cost of reimbursing the States during that part of 1948-49 for which they were responsible for those controls was £597,000. That represented an annual rate of expenditure of approximately £770,000.

The States recently furnished revised estimates which indicated that expenditure on the respective controls would be £633,000 for prices, £103,000 for rents and £61,000 for land sales, making a total of £797,000 for the three controls. The fact that land sales control in New South Wales terminated on the 1st September, 1949, has been taken into account but, as the future of this control is under review in certain other States, expenditure may be less than the estimate of £61,000. It is proposed to follow the practice adopted last year of limiting the grants to the reimbursement of administrative costs: any capital expenditure that the States may incur will not be a charge against the Commonwealth. The States will not be called upon to finance expenditure pending reimbursement from the Commonwealth as provision is again made for the payment of the grant by way of advances. At the end of the financial year an adjustment will be effected with each State on the basis of a certified statement by the State Auditor-General. I commend the bill to honorable senators.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1695

UNITED KINGDOM GRANT BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill seeks to appropriate £10,000,000 for a grant to the United Kingdom. As honorable senators will recall, a gift of a similar amount was made to the United Kingdom last year. It was made as a practical expression of the desire of the Australian people to assist the United Kingdom and also in recognition of the outstanding contribution that the British Government and people had made, despite their own pressing problems, to the economic recovery of Europe since the war ended. During the past year, the United Kingdom has made further striking progress in reconstructing its trade and industry. By a great effort, an overall balance of payments with all countries was achieved in the second half of 1948. Priority must still be given, however, to manufacture for export, particularly to dollar markets where payments difficulties continue to be acute. This has meant that comparatively little of the increased production from British factories has been available for consumption at home. Imports of foodstuffs and other consumer goods are also still limited, and the improvement of the external financial position of the United Kingdom has been achieved only because the British people have been willing to continue to make sacrifices in their own living standards. The United Kingdom is also still required to meet calls on its resources to help in the recovery of other European countries.

The countries of western Europe are receiving aid from the United States to help them .to solve their dollar shortages. Through the European recovery programme, dollar aid totalling 4,875,000,000 dollars was allocated to the participating countries in 1948-49. For 1949-50 a sum of about 3,700,000,000 dollars has been made available hy the United States Congress. With these dollars, European countries will be able to continue buying from the western hemisphere essential goods needed for their economic reconstruction.

In addition to the dollar problem, some of the European countries are faced with a shortage of other currencies, including a shortage of sterling. Some European countries have done better than others in increasing production and trade. Because of the uneven rate of recovery, some countries cannot earn enough by trade to buy the goods they need, while others are producing goods they cannot sell because of these payments difficulties. Last year, the difficulties were met by introducing an intra-European payments arrangement whereby countries which were in credit in their payments put up funds for use by those in debit. The creditor countries were able to provide these funds because they received in return something like the equivalent in Marshall aid dollars.

The United Kingdom played a large part in this scheme. Altogether, the United Kingdom made grants totalling £61,500,000 sterling to other European countries in the nine months ended the 30th June, 1949. The United Kingdom itself has been short of Belgian currency, and has received in Belgian francs the equivalent of £7,500,000 sterling from Belgium in the same period. These sums have been outright grants, leaving behind them no problems of repayment. In this manner, a break-down ih trade between European countries was averted. Europe was given a breathing-space in which the reconstruction of industries could continue without grave dislocation. In the absence of these payments arrangements, Europe’s recovery would have been hampered and the dollar assistance being given oy the United States would have been much less effective. Similar arrangements have been negotiated for 1949-50. The contributions to be made by the creditor countries are still provisional, but the United Kingdom will certainly again be called upon to make substantial sterling grants.

Australia’s interest in the restoration of economic prosperity in Europe remains as strong as it was a year ago. These European countries are important customers of ours. In 1948-49 we exported goods valued at £A.120,000,000 to countries other than the United Kingdom taking part in the European recovery programme. This represented 22 per cent, of our total exports valued at £A.547,000,000. France and French possessions took goods worth £A.48,000,000 and apart from the United Kingdom were the largest buyers of Australian commodities. Italy took £A.29,000,000 and Belgium £A.20,000,000. Wool was, of course, the main commodity entering into this trade. A total of £A.95,000,000 worth of wool was shipped to these European countries in 1948-49, representing 41 per cent, of all wool exports in that year. Our trade surplus with these countries last year was £A.85,000,000, which represented a large part of the surplus of £A.133,000,000 earned from our trade with all countries.

We gain directly from the United Kingdom’s contributions towards the reconstruction of Europe, when the countries receiving sterling grants spend part of them on our products. We also gain from the increased production in Europe which these grants help to promote. Throughout the past year the European countries generally have supplied a growing proportion of our essential import needs. The recent deterioration in the sterling area dollar position has made it more important than ever to develop alternative sources of supply for the equipment and raw materials needed for our own industries. Our best hope of reducing our current dollar deficit lies in the growing capacity of the United Kingdom and of the easy currency European countries to supply us with increased quantities of the essential imports on which we at present have to spend dollars. From all points of view, it is clearly in our own interests to make what contribution we can to help the United Kingdom in its own recovery and in the efforts it is making to promote increased production and trade in Europe. I am confident that honorable senators will approve the bill. It expresses our goodwill towards the British people and our confidence in their ability to surmount their present difficulties.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1697

SALES TAX (EXEMPTIONS AND CLASSIFICATIONS) BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to allow certain additional exemptions from sales tax, and to remove certain specified goods from the Third Schedule to the Sales Tax (Exemptions and Classifications) Act, thus reducing the rate of tax thereon from 25 per cent to the new general rate of 8 per cent. Details of the goods affected are given in a statement that is being circulated for the information of honorable senators. As the result of these amendments, the maximum rate of 25 per cent applies only to a very limited field which includes jewellery, imitation jewellery and precious stones, toilet and beauty preparations and materials, and fur garments. The reduction of the field of goods to which the maximum rate applies greatly simplifies the classification of goods for sales tax purposes, and is, therefore, of substantial assistance to the merchants concerned.

The bill provides for the commencement of the concessions on the8th September, 1949, with two minor exceptions in respect of which earlier commencement is authorized in the bill. The benefits conferred by the bill will no doubt commend it to all honorable senators. The loss of revenue for a full year, as a result of the amendments is estimated at £660,000, whilst the loss for the current financial year will be approximately £495,000.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1697

SALES TAX BILLS

(Nos. 1to 9) 1949.

Bills received from the House of Repre sentatives.

Motion (by Senator Ashley) put -

That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the questions with regard to the several stages for the passage through the Senate of all or several of the Sales Tax Bills Nos. 1 to 9 being put in one motion, at each stage, and the consideration of all or several of such bills together in committee of the whole.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Nicholls). - There being an absolute majority of the whole number of senators present, and no dissentient voice, I declare the question resolved in the affirmative.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bills (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I move -

That the bills be now read a second time.

These bills are designed to authorize a reduction of the general rate of sales tax from 10 per cent, to 8^ per cent. The new rate represents a charge of Id. per ls. of the wholesale selling value of goods. The reduction from 10 per cent, to 8-J per cent, applies to a wide range of goods in general use, and will thus operate to the benefit of the whole community. The reduced rate is deemed by the bill to have come into effect in respect of sales on and from the Sth September, 1949. An annual loss of revenue amounting to £6,066,000 is involved in the reduction, whilst the loss for the current financial year is estimated at £4,549,000.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1698

ENTERTAINMENTS TAS BILL (No. 2) 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

. I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill allows relief from entertainments tax by reducing the rates of tax by approximately 20 per cent. All classes of entertainments are affected, including those which are subject to tax at the general rates, and those which bear tax at the special rates applicable to the legitimate theatre and certain sports conducted by non-profit organizations. People who seek recreation at picture theatres and other popular sources of amusement should, as the result of this bill, obtain an appreciable reduction in the cost of entertainment. The former rates and the new rates are compared in a statement which is being circulated for the information of honorable senators The bill provides for the commencement of the new rates on the 1st October, 1949. Proprietors of entertainments who operate under security and use their own roll tickets are likely to have on hand stocks of tickets which specify the old rates of tax. The taxation authorities will, under certain conditions, permit the use of these old stocks after the commencement of the new rates. Proprietors who desire to use up old stocks of tickets should communicate with the taxation branch with a view to making the necessary arrangements. The reductions involve an annual loss of revenue amounting to £1,100,000; the loss for the current financial year is estimated as £825,000.

Debate (on . motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1698

STEVEDORING INDUSTRY CHARGE BILL 1949

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Ashley) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The Stevedoring Industry Charge Ant 1947 imposed on employers of waterside workers a charge at the rate of 4-id. for every man-hour of employment of such workers. The proceeds of the charge have been credited to the Consolidated Revenue Fund and, in accordance with the provisions of the Stevedoring Industry Acts of 1947 and 1949, equivalent amounts have been paid to the Stevedoring Industry Commission and later to the Australian Stevedoring Industry Board, which replaced the former body in July, 1949. These amounts are used to pay attendance money to waterside workers, to meet administrative costs and to provide amenities for waterside workers. This bill is designed to reduce the charge to 2£d. per man-hour of employment on and from the 11th October, 1949, as the original rate of 4£d. per man-hour has produced more revenue than is needed for the purposes stated. The original rate was based on an estimate of 30,000,000 man-hours of employment of waterside workers a year. However, in the year ended the 30th

June, 1949, there were approximately 3G,000,000 man-hours of such employment. As a consequence, at the 30th June, 1949, the commission had accumulated funds of about £250,000, after allowing for liabilities incurred. The reduction of the charge of 2½d. will cause the board’s funds to be progressively reduced over the next few years, whilst the amount in hand will provide a reasonable reserve of working capita] to cover unforeseen circumstances. I commend the bill to honorable senators.

Debate (on motion by Senator Cooper) adjourned.

page 1699

APPROPRIATION” BILL 1949-50

First Reading

Debate resumed from the 19th October (vide page 1592), on motion by Senator Ashley -

That the bil] be now read a first time.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– I move-

That the bill be now read a second time.

This measure provides for the appropriation of revenue for the ordinary services of the various departments. It provides for an appropriation of £92,594,000 for the services of the year 1949-50, to which should be added the £71,558,000, already granted under Supply Act No. 18 of 1949, making a total amount of £164,152,000, which is the estimated expenditure .from annual appropriations for ordinary services for the year 1949-50, as set out in detail in the second schedule to the bill. The expenditure proposals of the Government have already been covered in the budget debate and it is not proposed to deal now with the various items in detail. Any explanations that may be desired by honorable senators will be furnished at the committee stage.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

First Schedule agreed to.

Second Schedule.

Parliament.

Proposed vote, £374,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The amount proposed to be provided for the Parliament is £374,000, which is an increase over last year’s vote of approximately £60,000. Included in that increase is an amount of approximately £27,000 for salaries and payments in the nature of salary and approximately £29,000 for other services. I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to explain the reason for the proposed increase. Is it connected with the increased membership of the next Parliament ?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The increase has come about largely because of the need to provide for the additional members of the Parliament and their staffs and also because of the increased cost of supplies for Parliament House.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– Although £168 was expended during the last financial year for the conveyance of members of the House of Representatives and their luggage in Canberra, only £1 was expended for the conveyance of honorable senators and their luggage. Can the Minister for Shipping and Fuel indicate the reason for the obvious disparity?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The transport officer of the Senate sold his car at the beginning of the current financial year and was reimbursed £1 for out of pocket expenses that he had incurred. That transaction explains the expenditure of such a nominal amount. Since then he has arranged with the Department of the Interior to provide transport for honorable senators.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– In the structural additions and alterations that have been made to provide accommodation for additional members of the Parliament after the forthcoming election, can the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) inform me whether any amenities have been provided for the staffs? I point out that the personal staffs of Ministers and party leaders have to spend extended periods at Parliament House, and since they are absent from their homes for long periods, I consider that an effort should he , made to provide some amenities for them here. Furthermore, it will be necessary to provide emergency medical and first-aid facilities for the large number of people who will be accommodated in the building after the forthcoming election. Can the Minister inform me whether a room has been- set aside for that purpose?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– Because there will be more members of the Parliament next year, I trust that the Leader of the Opposition (.Senator Cooper) is not suggesting that members of the Parliament will necessarily be so turbulent as to require medical attention after debates. I consider that both the matters mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition could be dealt with more appropriately by the Joint House Committee.

Senator RANKIN:
QUEENSLAND · LP

– Is the Broadcasting Committee, of which I am a member, to continue to function, notwithstanding the establishment of the Australian Broadcasting Control Board?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– Since the committee is a statutory body, it will continue to function, and will consider any matters referred to it by the Parliament or by the Postmaster-General.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The amount proposed to be provided for parliamentary printing, including the printing and distribution of Hansard, seems to be quite inadequate. Although the amount expended on the printing of Hansard and its distribution in 1948-49 was £30,304, the amount proposed to be provided for the current financial year is only £23,000. I remind the Government again that the increased number “ of members of the Parliament must necessarily result in increased costs for printing, particularly because of the increased circulation of Hansard, which plays an important part in the Parliament, not only in recording the debates of both chambers, but also by enabling a large number of people throughout the country to follow the proceedings of the National Parliament. Therefore, any proposal to restrict the circulation of Hansard appears to me to be a retrograde step and would derogate from the dignity of the Parliament.

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The present sessional period will be shorter than the corresponding period in other years, when the Parliament has usually sat until December, and accordingly the amount proposed to be appropriated is necessarily smaller. The cost of printing and distributing Hansard in 1948-49 was £30,304. The proposed vote for 1949-50 is £23,000. Due to staffing difficulties, the expenditure in relation to the printing administrative staff in May and June, 1947, was not brought into account until 1948-49.

Senator Cooper:

– Do I understand that there is to be no curtailment of the distribution?

Senator ASHLEY:

– None whatever.

Senator MORROW:
Tasmania

– Under Division 5, “ Joint House Department “, the proposed vote for the housekeeper in 1949-50 is £654. The expenditure under this heading in 1948-49 was £679. Apparently the salary of this officer is to be reduced this year. I should like the Minister to explain the reason for the reduction. As salaries generally have been increased because of the rise of the cost of living, I consider that the salary of this officer should be increased rather than decreased. When the position was first gazetted the salary range was £452 to £500 a year. In view of the proposed increase of the numerical strength of this chamber, additional duties will devolve on the housekeeper by reason of the additional number of rooms to be cared for. There will be a considerable increase of his responsibilities. This officer is required to live on the premises. According to the schedule of salaries and allowances an amount of £45 is withheld from the housekeeper’s salary for rent. He is granted fuel, light and water. As railway stationmasters and other government officials who are required to live on the premises are more liberally treated, a deduction should not be made from the housekeeper’s salary for rent. During any temporary absence of this officer from his quarters, it is customary for his wife to answer the telephone and take messages for him. It is therefore seldom that the housekeeper and his wife have an opportunity to go out together. To this extent they are deprived of the enjoyment of each other’s company. The housekeeper’s conditions of employment come within the jurisdiction of th e President of the Senate. I should like an assurance from the Minister that the deduction of £45 from his salary for rent will be looked into.

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– Because this is a new appointment, a lower amount is to be provided for the housekeeper’s salary. The proposed vote of £654 is only the commencing salary of the position. However, in view of Senator Morrow’s representations, I shall cause this matter to be referred to the Joint House Committee for consideration.

Senator O’BYRNE:
TASMANIA · ALP

– I refer to the proposed vote of £4,500 for senators’ sessional travelling allowances, included in Division 1. I should like the Minister to inf orm me whether that includes the amount payable in respect of senators travelling on the Tasmanian railways system. I point out that the railway passes issued are now of little value to senators because they frequently use the ‘bus services operated throughout Tasmania by the Transport Commission. Other ‘bus services, also, are run in competition with the railways. Generally speaking, the railways service is very slow. I consider, therefore, that the amount payable to the Tasmanian Government in respect of railway travel by senators in Tasmania is in excess of the value of the service. Will the Minister inform the Senate whether it would be possible to effect an adjustment in this matter with a view to the amount payable to the Tasmanian Government for railway travel by senators in Tasmania being reduced. Would it be possible for the amount of any reduction made to be applied to provide ‘bus travel for senators in vehicles operated by the Transport Commission in Tasmania?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– Theproposed vote of £96,000 under Division 9, “ Miscellaneous “, covers the cost of conveyance of senators by rail. The Minister for Transport (Mr. Ward) has already undertaken to discuss this matter with the State authorities. I shall inform him of Senator O’Byrne’s representations.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– I draw attention to the fact that senators do not enjoy travelling facilities equally with members of the House of Representatives. Although I have previously directed the attention of the committee dealing with air travel to this aspect of the matter, I have not so far been advised of any decision reached. The senators representing the larger States are at a considerable disadvantage in this matter. I point out that, although a member of the House of Representatives represents only one electorate a senator represents a whole State. It is indeed extraordinary that, whilst air travel is available to members of the House of Representatives, that facility is not extended to senators. I should be glad if the Minister would take steps to rectify this anomaly.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I consider that this subject should be reviewed by the next Parliament. We are a dying Parliament and I do not consider that an alteration should be effected at this stage. However, if Senator Cooper desires me todo so, I shall be glad to submit a recommendation to the Minister.

Senator Cooper:

– Such a facility would be of considerable advantage during the forthcoming election campaign.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Prime Minister’s Department.

Proposed vote, £1,157,000.

Senator COOPER (Queensland- Leader vote for 1949-50 is considerably less thar the expenditure of £2,844,759 in 1948-49. The decrease in the amount of the proposed vote for 1949-50, compared with expenditure in 1948-49, is £1,687,759. However, I point out that the proposed vote in relation to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization is not now included in Division 9, but in Division 113. Excluding the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization the proposed vote for 1949-50 is almost £76,000 greater than was expenditure in 1948-49. Much of this additional expenditure is accounted for by the increased number of temporary and casual employees engaged. Although the Public Service Board should set an example to other departments in this matter, proposed expenditure for salaries in 1949-50 is £174,000, compared with an expenditure of £156,897 in 194S-49. Of the proposed vote, £15,000 is for the payment of the salaries of temporary and casual employees. It would appear that there has been a big increase in the number of these employees. “Will the Minister inform the Senate whether this is due to a legacy of wartime expansion? Is it considered that the large number of temporary and casual employees now engaged will be retained in the future?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The aim of the Public Service Board is to appoint permanently as many of the temporary and casual employees as possible. The number of those employees now engaged, as Senator Cooper has suggested, is due to an overflow of wartime activities.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The greatest increase in staff has occurred in the office of the Public Service Board. Although the expenditure in 1948-49 for salaries and allowances was £125,800, the proposed vote for 1949-50 is £154,000. The total number of employees on the central and inspectors’ staffs of the Public Service Board has increased from 244 in 1948-49 to 348 now. Of 104 additional officers, the number of clerks employed has risen from 86 to 134. The general public is very critical of the rising costs of government and of the number of persons now employed in the Public Service. Will the Minister explain the reason for this large increase of the number of clerks employed?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The activities of the Public Service have expanded during recent years, particularly as a result of an increase in the activities of sections administering social services. There has been a big increase of administrative staff in that connexion. Both the Department of Health and the Department of Immigration are expanding* all the time. We cannot expect to bring thousands of immigrants to this country without engaging additional staff to deal with the detail work involved. Additional employees have been engaged, also, in connexion with the National Employment Service, whilst certain Commonwealth authorities not previously covered by the Public Service Act have been brought within its ambit. Additional work has been entailed because of the decision to again publish staff lists, the introduction of a modern card index system, the publication of Public Service regulations, general orders, &c, and it is proposed to extend the scope of examinations in order to provide for recruitment on a permanent basis.

Senator Cooper:

– Is it expected that the increase will be maintained in succeeding years?

Senator ASHLEY:

– Yes.

Senator COOPER:
QueenslandLeader of the Opposition

– I notice also that expenditure on the High Commissioner’s Office in the United Kingdom has increased. Expenditure last year was £447,012, or £36,912 more than the amount of the appropriation. The estimate for 1949-50 is £467,000, representing an increase of nearly £20,000 over actualexpenditure last year. Although the number of permanent officers on the staff of the High Commissioner’s Office has not varied greatly, large numbers of temporary and casual employees are engaged. The amount allocated for the salaries of temporary and casual employees last year was £111,340, but the vote was exceeded by no less than £68,249. I realize that the office is doing great work for Australia, but the considerable increase of expenditure on the employment of temporary and casual officers requires explanation. It may have ‘been due to an extraordinary degree of activity in the office last year. I notice that the proposed allotment for the salaries of temporary and casual employees is £146,000, which is considerably less than the actual expenditure for that purpose last year. I hope that the Minister for Shipping and Fuel will be able to explain the situation.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The increased expenditure of the High Commissioner’s Office in the United Kingdom has resulted mainly from the Government’s activities in connexion with immigration, which I mentioned a few minutes ago. It has been necessary to expand the permanent staff of the office in recent years in order to enable the various sections to function efficiently, and it is expected that many positions that were occupied for only a part of 1948-49 will be filled for the whole of the current year. In spi te of staff increases that have been made, it is still necessary for temporary and casual employees as well as permanent officers to work overtime in order to cope with the extra duties that have fallen upon the office, particularly in relation to migration. As I have said, we cannot bring thousands of migrants to Australia unless we have a large and efficient staff to handle the necessary organization overseas. The Leader of the Opposition has remarked that expenditure for salaries of temporary and casual employees last year was £179,589 although the amount voted by the Parliament was only £111,340. The proposed vote for 1949-50 is £146,000. It is contemplated that many of the temporary and casual officers will be appointed permanently.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The figures show that the proposed vote for temporary and casual employees this year is less than the expenditure on that account last year but that the provision for permanent officers is proposed to be considerably increased. Does that indicate that numbers of temporary and casual officers will be transferred to the permanent staff?

Senator Ashley:

– Yes.

Senator COOPER:

– That makes a big difference, because actual expenditure upon the salaries of permanent officers last year was only £59,S18 whereas the amount proposed for this year is £114,000.

Senator Ashley:

– That is the explanation.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department op External Affairs.

Proposed vote, £1,005,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote for the Department of External Affairs represents an increase of £77,312 over actual expenditure in 1948-49. The administrative expenses of that department have increased very considerably, and the proposed allocation for that division is £44,534 higher than the expenditure last year. I assume that the increase results from staff expansion, but some explanation should be given to the Senate. It appears that the staffs of all Commonwealth departments are steadily increasing.

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– The Leader, of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) stated the figures correctly. The proposed vote for the Department of External Affairs for 1949-50 is £77,312 higher than the actual expenditure last year. Administrative expenses are expected to be heavier this year, although the difference will not be very great. I point out that the number of administrative officers this year is 236, consisting of 150 permanent employees and 86 temporary employees. The number last year was 226. That partially explains the anticipated increase under that heading. A very substantial increase is expected to occur in expenditure upon postage, telegrams and telephone services. The estimated increase of £35,395 under that heading is chiefly due to increased overseas air mail charges, which have risen on the average by approximately 100 per cent., and to increased internal postal, telegraph and telephone charges. Honorable senators will recall that the increased internal charges were approved by this Parliament not very long ago. Whereas £55,000 was provided for overseas air mails last year, it is estimated that £71,000 will be required this year. In addition to that, £19,200 must be provided for arrears of trans-Pacific air mail charges dating back to March, 1947. Approximately 70 per cent, of the expenditure on overseas air mails is incurred for other Commonwealth departments. Honorable senators will appreciate the fact that overseas communications are mainly conducted through the Department of External Affairs, which is therefore committed to a great deal of expenditure on behalf of other departments.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– In approaching the contemplated financial provision for the Department of External Affairs I realize that, as Australia’s status as a nation is increasing, the expenditure of this very important department must increase. I notice that the proposed vote envisages an increase of the expenditure upon the Australian Embassy in China of £3,756 over actual expenditure last year. I should like to know something about our diplomatic representation in China. Where is the Embassy situated, and what is the cause of the anticipated extra expenditure? I understand that, since the Labour party assumed office in October, 1941, nearly eight years ago, the diplomatic service has increased from seven officers in Canberra and fifteen officers in five overseas countries to 64 officers in Canberra and 76 representatives overseas in 28 countries. That expansion appears to be in keeping with the Government’s farsighted policy of maintaining up-to-date communications with other countries and of fostering international co-operation.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

– The Australian Embassy in China is located at Nanking. The staff consists of an ambassador, a first secretary, a second secretary, three third secretaries, an accounting officer, a clerk and a typist. It is very difficult to forecast the amount that will be required to maintain Australian representation in China, but it is estimated that the salaries and allowances for permanent, temporary and casual employees there will increase by £1,800 this year on account f cost of living adjustments and variations in staff allowances. Senator Murray will appreciate that various incidental expenses have increased also as the result of additional activities undertaken by the Embassy and heavier communication charges. It is true that the activities of the Department of External Affairs have expanded considerably in recent years. That, of course, has been due to the important part that Australia has played in the realm of international affairs. This country exercises an influence in international activities that is quite disproportionate to its population and degree of development and to its economic position in the world. Honorable senators must realize that Australia has been very active in fashioning the policies of international bodies. In particular, we can justly claim most of the credit for having brought about the acceptance of the policy of full employment for all peoples. The honorable senator may rest assured that whilst there has been an increase in staff and representation in many more countries the expenditure involved is being watched very carefully. In recent years the expenditure of dollar content has been pruned very heavily. The administration is being carried on with due economy having full regard, however, to the vastly important part to be played by this department in the affairs of the world. I am sure that no honorable senator would be prepared to support the proposition that Australia should be represented abroad in any niggardly fashion. At the same time due regard must be had to economy. Both those phases have been closely considered. Of course, all staffing arrangements are subject to the overall consideration of the Public Service Board, which is entirely divorced from politics and is concerned not only with the quantum, but also the quality of departmental staffs.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I understand that somewhat severe limitations and restrictions are imposed upon the movements and activities of our Ambassador to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. If -that be so, will the Government give serious consideration to the withdrawal of our Ambassador from Russia unless he is allowed the freedom of movement and activity that is usually allowed to ambassadors by civilized people in civilized countries? Alternatively, will the Government consider imposing corresponding restrictions upon the movements and activities of the Russian Ambassador in Australia?

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– I must confess that I am not informed as to the restrictions, if there are any, that are imposed on the activities of our Ambassador to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I believe that it is true that some restrictions are placed upon our representative in that country, but I am sure that the Minister for External Affairs (Dr. Evatt) has considered whether they are of such a nature, as Senator O’sullivan seems to imply, that we would be justified because of them in terminating our representation in that country. The mere fact that the Minister has not seen fit to make a proposal that Australia’s representation in Russia should be withdrawn would show to my mind that, concerned as he would be with the fact that any restrictions were imposed upon our representative, he either hopes that they may be withdrawn - and he would be very active in making representations that they should be removed - or he does not regard them as being of a sufficiently serious nature to warrant the Government taking the step that the honorable senator has suggested. Which of the alternatives is the correct one to take I am not able to inform the honorable senator. It may be that before the committee concludes its consideration of the general estimates I may have an opportunity to confer with the Minister for External Affairs and ascertain his outlook on the point that the honorable senator has raised.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– I understood the Minister for Health (Senator McKenna) to say that the reason for the increased allocation for postage, telegrams and telephone services under the heading “ General Expenses “ was that the cost of such services had increased by 100 per cent. Does that mean that all of those services are overseas services? I cannot imagine that rates have been increased in Australia by 100 per cent. Although they have been increased considerably, they have not been doubled. Perhaps, the Minister will give me a little further information on that point.

I fully agree with the Minister that we need to provide the very best representation of Australia abroad, and that it would be useless to stint our expenditure in that respect. However, the cost of some of our delegations abroad has increased considerably. For instance, the allocation in respect of our Embassy in the United States of America is £100,000. I should like to know whether the effect of the devaluation of Australian currency in relation to the dollar has been allowed for in that figure. I am not quibbling about that allocation. Whether or not it must be increased in order to allow for the effect of devaluation, it is most important that Australia be adequately represented in the United States of America and that our Ambassador there be enabled to hold his position with the representatives of other countries.

Whereas the sum of £17,727 was expended in respect of the Australian Legation in Chile last year, the sum of only £2,000 is being provided for that purpose this year. I take it that the Minister for External Affairs (Dr. Evatt) has decided to close down that legation and that the latter sum will be expended in winding it up. On a previous occasion I advocated that that legation be closed down, and I am pleased to note that the Government has decided to do so. The expenditure in respect of the High Commissioner’s Office in Pakistan last year amounted to £10,468, whereas the sum of £19,000 is being voted for that office for the current financial year. I recognize that that office has just been established. Is that the reason why expenditure under that heading is to be doubled compared with expenditure last year?

I take it that the effect of the devaluation of Australian currency in relation to the dollar will also be reflected in expenditure in respect of our representation at New York and also at San Francisco, for which the sums of £25,500 and £7,200, respectively, are now being allocated. However, I note that those sums are practically equal to the expenditure incurred under those headings last year.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

– The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) raised five matters. First, he sought further information about the cost of postage, telegrams and telephone services under the heading of “ General Expenses “ in respect of the head office of the department. The allocation for that item this year is £35,395 more than the expenditure incurred last year. A few minutes ago I pointed out that that increase was mainly in respect of increased charges for overseas airmails that had risen by approximately 100 per cent. I did not say that all postal charges had increased by 100 per cent.

Senator Cooper:

– Would overseas airmail charges be a very large proportion of the increase?

Senator McKENNA:

– Yes ; of the total figure of £102,800, the sum of £71,000 will be required to meet overseas airmail charges. The sum of £55,000 was expended in respect of overseas airmails last year. At the same time, as the honorable senator is aware, internal postal and telegraph charges have been substantially increased.

The allocation in respect of the Australian delegation in the United States of America does not allow for the effect of the devaluation of Australian currency. It is true that the total cost of maintaining all our establishments in that country will be considerably increased as a result of that devaluation. We had no office in Chile at the 30th June last, and the relatively small amount that is now being provided under that heading is to meet the cost involved in transferring staff from Chile to Australia, including fares, travelling allowances and other incidental expenses. As the Leader of the Opposition said, that sum will be incurred in winding up our representation in Chile.

The Leader of the Opposition will recall that our representation in Pakistan was not effective for the whole of last year. Accordingly, it is not proper to compare the expenditure for a limited period last year with the sum required to cover the cost for a full year in the current year. That fact accounts for the disparity between the expenditure under that heading last year and the sum that is being allocated for that purpose this year.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of the Treasury.

Proposed vote, £4,398,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote of £4,398,000 for the Department of the Treasury this year is £254,029 more than was expended for that department last year. The allocation in respect of salaries is to be increased by £236,297, and practically the whole of that increase, or £227,055, is being incurred in respect of officers of the Taxation Office. I have ascertained that the number of those officers has increased to a very alarming degree. For instance, in the Taxation Office in New South Wales there are no fewer than 1,146 clerks, 999 assistants and 258 typists, the total number of employees having increased from 2,115 last year to 2,574 this year, or an increase of 459. It may be that that increase of staff has been occasioned by the use of the complicated forms with which taxpayers have to contend. The figures I have given will help the people to realize the high cost of administering the Taxation Office. I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to give some explanation for the extraordinary increase in the staff of that office. Uniform income tax has been in operation for some years, and it seems to be extraordinary if each year the staff of the taxation office is to be increased to that degree.

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The increased vote for the Taxation Office can be accounted for largely by an expansion of staff, and by cost of living salary increases. I remind the Senate that industry in Australia is expanding, and that more income earners are entering the taxation field as the result of the prosperity that is abroad in this country to-day. Also, the Government’s immigration policy is increasing the population of this country rapidly. That, too, means more work for the taxation officials. The increase of staff required to handle additional work arising out of the normal annual increase of the number of taxpayers accounts for £108,500 of the proposed vote. The expansion of the income tax investigating section, with a view to reducing materially evasions of income tax will cost £70,000. That work, I remind honorable senators, is not made necessary by the working class section of the community, but by income earners in the higher brackets. The task of the income tax investigation section is to ensure that these people shall pay their lawful dues to their country. The cost of salary increments is estimated at £18,500. Increased salaries payable to officials as a result of cost of living adjustments, arbitration awards, amendments of the Public Service Regulations, and higher-duty allowances will cost £98,736.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– I appreciate the information that the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) has given, but he cannot have it both ways. We are being told continually that large numbers of people in the community have been freed of tax obligations. That should lighten the work of the Taxation Office and there should be no need to increase its staffs. If the expansion indicated by this vote is to be an annual affair - in one capital city alone there is an increase of staff of 459 - we shall soon have a small army of taxation officials. I repeat that if the Government’s claim to have freed thousands of former taxpayers of their obligation to pay tax is justified, the staffs of the Taxation Office should be diminishing rather than expanding.

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New SouthWales · ALP

– The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) should know that practically every one who receives an income must furnish an income tax return whether he is liable to pay tax or not. Therefore, the number of forms with which the Taxation Office has to deal is not diminishing as the honorable senator suggests it should be as the result of tax reductions.

Senator CRITCHLEY:
South Australia

– I note with interest that £48,000 is being voted this year for payments to temporary and casual employees of the Treasury. Last year, the vote was £80,000, and the actual expenditure was £60,281. I should like to know what is the average length of service of those employees. I am led to believe that although some of them have been public servants for many years, they are being denied permanent classification. I should like to know also how many temporary and casual employees of the Treasury are ex-service men and women. Is the Government doing anything to provide permanent employment for those people? I am informed that temporary and casual employees in the Public Service are frequently called upon to perform duties which rightly should not be within the province of such employees. I trust that more consideration will be given to these people, some of whom are moved from job to job, spending only a few weeks in each. I have been approached by numerous temporary Commonwealth public servants in South Australia, and I know that the designation of their employment as “ temporary “ is most unsatisfactory to them.

Senator ASHLEY:
New SouthWalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– I realize that Senator Critchley is deeply interested in the matter that he has brought to the attention of the committee. I think that he mentioned it when the budget was under discussion last year. I point out that the conditions of temporary public servants to-day are very much better than they have been in the past. The honorable senator will realize, of course, that this is a matter for the Public Service Board, and I do not think that it would be wise for the Government to interfere politically. I shall bring the honorable senator’s observations to the notice of the Public Service Board.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Attorney-General’s Department.

Proposed vote, £665,000.

Senator COOPER (Queensland- Leader tins department represents a substantial increase over expenditure in .1948-49. In that year, that vote was £590,700 and £611,206 was actually expended. The vote for the current year is £665,000. Administrative costs in the department have risen considerably. For example, last year, the vote under Division 41, “Administrative”, was £49,400. This year, £75,000 is being sought, an increase of £25,600. The main contribution to this increase, as far as I can ascertain, is made by increased salaries and allowances. The vote under that heading last year was £24,000, but this year £45,000 is being appropriated. That represents an increase of very nearly 100 per cent., in spite of the fact that no provision has to be made this year for the payment of a salary of £2,488 to a deputy secretary, and £1,146 to an assistant secretary, legal division, as was the case last year. The schedule discloses that the number of officers employed in the central administration has increased from 51 to 63. I should like the Minister representing the Attorney-General to explain why the vote for the central administration has had to be almost doubled since last year. The schedule shows that the number of clerks has been increased from seven to ten, and I should like to know why the employment of these three additional officers has necessitated an increase of the

Vote from £2,631 to £4,501.

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– The explanation of the increased vote for the AttorneyGeneral’s Department is that Division 41, “ Administrative “ now includes for the first time, provision for the Canberra branch of the Crown Solicitor’s Office. That item alone accounts for a substantial increase of the vote. In addition, provision has had to be made for substantial cost of living adjustments of salaries.

Senator Cooper:

– Under what department was the vote for the Canberra branch of the Crown Solicitor’s Office shown previously ?

Senator McKENNA:

– It was shown separately under Division No. 43 - “ Crown ‘Solicitor’s Office “.

Senator Cooper:

– Then the alteration can make no difference to the total expense of the department ?

Senator McKENNA:

– Not to the overall expenses, and, of course, there is not a great overall increase in the vote.

Senator Cooper:

– There is a difference of £741,300.

Senator McKENNA:

– There has been a complete re-organization of the staff of the Solicitor-General. That reorganization was long overdue. The honorable senator should know better than any body outside the Parliament that the parliamentary drafting staff has had to carry an undue burden in the past. Generally speaking, there has been a dearth of staff in the central administration, with the result that an onerous burden has had to be borne by members of that staff. The staff has now been increased, and, of course, normal incremental advancement accounts for some of the difference. My own feeling is - and I have some intimate knowledge of the working of the department - that for the sake of effective operations, it is necessary to have more men of high calibre at the disposal of the department. A vast amount of legal advice has to be furnished to Commonwealth departments and to all kinds of boards and organizations, and, of course, many constitutional questions arise, primarily from the activity of this Government. On the question of the net results of governmental activity in the constitutional field, one could develop a very good argument in support of the contention that the Government’s viewpoint has been upheld on very many occasions. It is true that the legal contentions of the Commonwealth Government have not always been upheld by the High Court. However, I make no comment on that fact, but merely, record that on many occasions the legal viewpoint of the present Government has been upheld. From the intimate knowledge of the Attorney-General’s Department that I have acquired, I consider that it is highly desirable that more qualified staff should be employed in that department, and that any increased expenditure to obtain the services of additional qualified officers is more than justified.

Senator Cooper:

– Division 41 indicates that the number of clerks employed in the central administration of the AttorneyGeneral’s Department is to be increased from seven to ten and the provision for salaries is to be increased from £2,631 to £4,501. What is the reason for the increase of staff?

Senator McKENNA:

– The slight increase of staff mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition has been merely to meet the long-felt need for additional professional staff to which I alluded awhile ago. The increase of £1,900 will enable three officers, whom I imagine will be law clerks, to be engaged at a salary of slightly more than £600 per annum.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department or the Interior.

Proposed vote, £1,695,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The amount proposed to be appropriated for the Department of the Interior represents an increase of £246,000 over the amount provided for that department last financial year, and the scale of increase appears to be in line with the general increase of expenditure by Commonwealth departments. Money seems to be poured into those departments quite lavishly. Indeed, it is difficult to discover any Commonwealth department where any worthwhile economy has been effected. Furthermore, .with the exception of two divisions, all the divisions of expenditure shown in the accounts of the Department of the Interior are to be increased. I notice in particular that it is proposed to increase the appropriation for the Meteorological Branch of the Department of the Interior by £55,000, which is a very considerable increase for a comparatively small branch, and requires justification. The two branches of the department whose estimates have increased only moderately are the Forestry Branch and the Governor-General’s establishments. The amount to be provided for the rent of buildings has, fortunately, shown a slight decrease of £14,000, although the huge sum of £453,000 will still be required for that purpose. However, the most striking feature of the proposed appropriation for the Department of the Interior is the provision of £310,000 for salaries and payments in the nature of salary for temporary and casual employees. I have previously referred to the inordinately large number of temporary and casual employees employed by the Government in various departments, but the Department of the Interior appears to be employing more than the usual proportion. Can the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior inform me what duties are performed by this army of temporary and casual employees?

Senator COURTICE:
QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs · ALP

– The increase of expenditure proposed for the Department of the Interior is explained by the general expansion of the department’s activities. The largest single increase of expenditure incurred by the department will be on the electoral branch, but the reason for that increase is apparent when Ave recall that financial provision has to be made for a general election to be held during the current financial year, and that the branch has had to establish, and will have to maintain, a much bigger organization because of the increased number of parliamentary constituencies.

Senator Cooper:

– Does the proposed vote for the electoral branch include the cost of re-alining the electoral boundaries ?

Senator COURTICE:

– The increase is largely due to the cost of establishing a much bigger organization to deal with the larger number of constituencies.

Senator Cooper:

– Will this considerable expenditure recur every year?

Senator COURTICE:

– General elections do not occur every year, but most of the increased expenditure of the branch has been occasioned by the necessity to employ additional staff.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

. I notice from Division 52 that £245,000 is proposed to be provided for the meteorological branch of the department, in which I am particularly interested. [ desire to know whether the proposal to increase the expenditure on that branch by £55,000 more than was provided for the last financial year is occasioned by the purchase of the most modern scientific equipment, including radiosonde. I might explain that the purpose of radiosonde is to send a balloon into the stratosphere, perhaps to a height of 60,000 feet, whence wireless equipment and other devices transmit information to meteorological and scientific bureaux, which enables meteorologists to make long-range weather forecasts. The importance of reliable long-range weather forecasting to primary producers and industrialists generally does not need to be overstated. Furthermore, I hardly need to point out that an adequate and efficient meteorological service is almost more important in war-time than in peace. I understand that the Commonwealth Government has established meteorological observation posts at Macquarie Island and Heard Island in the Antarctic, and [ should like the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior to inform me whether the proposed increase of the vote of the meteorological branch will cover the cost of advanced scientific investigations of the kind I have mentioned, including the establishment and maintenance of the observation posts in the Antarctic.

Senator CRITCHLEY:
South Australia

– The Leader of the Opposition (.Senator Cooper) seemed to be perturbed that £310,000 is to be provided for salaries and payments in the nature of salaries for temporary and casual employees of the Department of the Interior. Let me say at once that if justice were done to those employees many of them would undoubtedly be appointed permanent officers, with a considerable increase of salary. I have no doubt that many of the temporary and casual employees of the department, like their opposite numbers in other departments, have given a lifetime of loyal and faithful service to the department, but because of certain technical requirements they are prevented from attaining permanent status, and have to be content with the maximum rate payable to temporary officers. Permanent officers, of course, receive regular increments and are permitted to advance in the Service. Indeed, the increased amount of £30,000 to be provided for salaries and allowances of permanent officers during the present financial year indicates that they are being treated much more generously than the temporary officers, who will receive an aggregate increase of only £14,000 over the amount expended on their salaries during the last financial year. Of course, I know that Commonwealth and State public service associations have made repeated representations to the Government for many years concerning the treatment of temporary officers. From my own personal experience and observation I know the comfort and peace of mind that is gained by temporary and casual employees whose appointments are made permanent. In some instances they may qualify for permanent appointment merely by passing an examination. That gives them a great deal of mental satisfaction. I contend that the Government should not continue to exploit this means of obtaining cheap labour.

Senator COURTICE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Queensland · ALP

– It must be realized that many temporary officers are employed in this department as watchmen and cleaners.

Senator Critchley:

– I suggest that the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Courtice) should refer to those officers as permanent temporaries.

Senator COURTICE:

– I believe that there is to be a kind of superannuation provision for some of them.

Senator Critchley:

– The opinion that I have advanced is based on nearly twenty years’ experience. .

Senator COURTICE:

– Many temporary officers in the department have given good service for many years. Some who were employed in connexion with the administration of rationing have been transferred to the States. The whole field of employment of temporary officers by the Government is being reviewed. It is conceded that injustices may be done in some instances. I have been advised, however, that many temporary officers are not likely to become permanent members of the Public Service. Senator Murray dealt with technical aspects of the Meteorological Branch. I understand that the matters to which he has referred are being dealt with in the budget. The ramifications in relation to advancement of technical air equipment are being considered by the Government. That accounts for a big proportion of the expenditure contemplated in the proposed vote. Great progress is being made in this work.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– I should like the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Courtice) to furnish me with additional information in relation to the Electoral Branch. The proposed vote for 1949-50 under Division No. 51 is £259,000. The expenditure in 1948-49 was £190,847. I should like to know whether the cost involved in defining the new electorates is included in that expenditure. If so, I point out that that cost will not recur. The number of staff employed by the Electoral Branch has increased from 217 in 1948-49 to 305 in 1949-50. Apparently this increase has been occasioned by the necessity to engage additional returning officers and clerks to cope with the extra work that will be involved because of the increase of the number of electorates. I pointed out when we were dealing with the legislation to provide for a redistribution of electorates, that much additional cost would fall upon thu taxpayers because of the salaries and allowances that would have to be paid to that additional staff. The proposed vote for 1949-50 exceeds the expenditure in 1948-49 by £68,153. Et is reasonable to assume, therefore, that additional expenditure will be involved in many other departments because of the increase of the number of legislators, and consequently the enlargement of the Parliament will prove to be a very expensive luxury.

Sena-tor COURTICE (QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs) [5.51]. - Several matters involving big expenditures will not recur. For instance, an additional £20,000 is to be provided for the revision of the electoral rolls. In 1948-49 the expenditure for this purpose was £50,000. I point out that a lot of work is involved getting the rolls into reasonable condition. The proposed vote of £187,721 for salaries and allowances includes provision for annual increments i n.l the payment of salary in lieu of furlough to certain officers who are expected l.o retire during 1949-50. No blame is attachable to the Department of the Ti” tenor because of the additional expenditure that will be incurred because of the enlargement of the Parliament. That, has been occasioned by the action of the Parliament itself. Provision has been made, also, to meet recent costofliving adjustments. The over-all increased expenditure will be occasioned mainly by the creation of 47 new electoral divisions. The staff increase of 88 officers has been necessitated mainly because of the necessity to provide two officers for each electorate. The salaries of these additional officers will, of course, he a permanent charge. I am sure that honorable senators will agree that we cannot expect to maintain up-to-date electoral rolls in our democracy without being prepared to pay the cost involved. The Electoral Branch is very efficiently administered.

Senator MORROW:
Tasmania

– Will the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Courtice) inform me whether additional expenditure will be involved because the Government has introduced proportional representation to preserve democracy in the Senate? Presumably additional staff will be required to conduct the ballots and count the votes.

Senator COURTICE:
QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs · ALP

– Although I cannot see any reference to that item in the Estimates, I assume that additional staff will be required for the purpose.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I direct the attention of the Senate to the alarming increase of expenditure in connexion with the rent of buildings. The expenditure under this heading in 1948-49 was £411,401, whilst the proposed vote for 1949-50 is £453,000- which is an increase of £41,599. Presumably the amount of the proposed vote will be paid for the rent of buildings not owned by the Commonwealth. For convenience of costing apparently each department has not been debited separately with amounts of rental. This alarming increase of the amount paid for rental of buildings indicates not only a wide and wild rush by this Government to absorb every available person into its employment, at the expense of private enterprise, but also that the Government is ruthlessly putting private enterprise out of premises that it requires. A very serious aspect of this matter is the loss of rates to the local-governing authorities. These losses are assuming very large proportions in the capital cities. I should like the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Courtice) to assure the Senate that this wild stampede for staff will be halted in the near future.

Senator COURTICE:
QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs · ALP

– Many of the departments are short of accommodation and are cluttered up rather severely. The increase of the provision for rent has been occasioned by a number of leases expiring. It has been necessary to liberalize conditions when renewing them in many instances. I think that Senator O’sullivan is well aware of the cramped conditions existing in many of the departments. The work of the Department of Trade and Customs has expanded because of general governmental activity, and it has not been possible to provide that department with adequate accommodation. Since the war the Government has made every effort to relinquish premises that are required by private enterprise.

Sitting suspended from 5.59 io 8 p.m.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– Division 54 deals with the Forestry Branch. I have always taken a very great interest in forestry work, and I consider that all members of this Parliament, and indeed every Australian, should do so. Many hundreds of thousands of acres of valuable forest country in Australia have been denuded of timber, and governments have been slow to implement a policy of re-afforestation. State governments have undertaken many reafforestation schemes, but the work should ‘be extended. The Australian Forestry School at Canberra trains foresters for employment in the various States, the Australian Capital Territory, and also, I understand, New Zealand. The figures contained in the Estimates suggest that the school is not going ahead as rapidly as are other Commonwealth activities. In fact, expenditure during 1948-49 was less than the amount appropriated. That was an unusual circumstance. I hope that the Minister will explain the reason for the low cost of maintaining and conducting the school. The amount appropriated for salaries and payments in the nature of salary was £33,000, and expenditure totalled £29,687. The proposed vote for 1949-50 is £38,000. Field and laboratory equipment expenses last year amounted to only £1,824, although the sum appropriated for that purpose waa £4,000. Only £275 was expended upon the purchase of seeds and materials for research work, although £500 was allotted, under that heading. The proposed allotment this year is £600. An important item is the allocation of funds for Commonwealth forestry scholarships, which cover the university fees and sustenance allowances of students. Although £7,000 was allotted for the scholarships last year, expenditure amounted to only £5,814. I notice that the estimate for this year contains a new item of £2,200 to provide for the accommodation of students at government hostels, the cost of which is to be paid to the credit of the Australian Capital Territory Hotels Trust Account. How many students are now attending the school, and how many are accommodated in government hostels ?

Senator COURTICE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Queensland · ALP

– There can be no doubt that the Government is eager to foster and extend forestry work in Australia. It maintains a highly efficient training centre at Canberra, and also collaborates with the States in the general work of afforestation. The number of students attending the Australian Forestry School at Canberra has increased from ‘44 to 72. That fact indicates that the work of the school is not being allowed to languish. A .building programme is being carried out at the school with the object of providing accommodation for all students. Present accommodation is inadequate as the result of the increased enrolment, and therefore it has been necessary to provide accommodation for some students in Canberra hostels. That is why it is proposed that an amount of £2,200 be set aside this year to provide for the cost, of such accommodation. I agree with thu Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) that we cannot do too much to develop Australian forests. The proposed vote for the Forestry Branch this year is considerably higher than the amount that was actually expended upon the branch last year. That indicates the Government’s practical interest in its work. The Government proposes to expend £7,500 upon university fees and sustenance allowances this year for holders of forestry scholarships. The amount expended under this heading last year was slightly less than £6,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The Government is involved in heavy commitments for the renting of Commonwealth offices in the various States. The amount proposed to be appropriated for these expenses this year is £453,000, which represents more than £9,000 a week. That is an extraordinarily severe charge. I have noted that considerable building activity is in progress in Canberra and that numbers of office buildings are in course of construction. I should like to know what departments will be accommodated in the big office block that is nearing completion at the rear of the Hotel Kurrajong. Can the Minister tell me how many officers will be accommodated in it? I realize that many branches of Commonwealth departments require offices in the State capital cities, but the head-quarters of all departments should be located in the National Capital. Honorable senators who support the Government frequently expressed a similar view when they were in opposition. There is no reason why the head-quarters of every department should not be established in Canberra eventually. The Minister for Information (Mr. Calwell) declared in the House of Representatives recently that the Commonwealth should not be renting buildings here, there, and everywhere in the State capital cities. He said that the Government did not intend to build huge piles of buildings in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and Hobart to be occupied by officers who properly should be working in Canberra. I agree with him on that issue. Will the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior tell the Senate what departments are likely to be transferred to the new buildings that are under construction in Canberra ?

Senator COURTICE (QueenslandMinister for Trade and Customs) occupation of portions of the buildings that are nearing completion in Canberra. Staffs of the Prices Branch, the Department of Works and Housing, the Department of Trade and Customs, and the Public Service Board are working in the buildings near the Hotel Kurrajong. Accommodation will be provided there soon for officers of the Department of Health and the Department of Immigration. It can be said truly that this Government has done more to centralize departmental head-quarters in Canberra than any previous government did. Its firm policy is to establish the headquarters of departments in the National Capital, and it will not rest upon the achievements that it has made up to date.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Works and Housing.

Proposed vote, £1,700,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– A cursory examination of the Estimates for the Department of Works and Housing suggests that the expenditure proposed for 1949-50 is approximately £500,000 less than actual expenditure last year. Actual expenditure by the department in 1948-49 totalled £2,199,358, and the proposed vote for 1949-50 is £1,700,000. However, a deeper investigation of the facts discloses that those figures are misleading. The administrative costs of the department have, in fact, increased very considerably. Total expenditure upon salaries last year was £1,825,832, and the proposed vote for this year is £2,334,000, representing an increase of slightly over £500,000. Once more I direct attention to the large numbers of temporary and casual employees. The proposed cost of salaries for such officers this year is £1,418,000, which exceeds by more than £500,000 the amount proposed for the salaries and allowances of permanent officers. Furthermore, the estimated cost of the salaries of temporary officers and casual employees is £173,524 more than actual expenditure under the same heading last year. Division 60 contains provision for the expenditure of £3,000 on expendable equipment. This is a new head of expenditure. I should like the Minister to give to the Senate a clearer indication of the nature of expenditure to be incurred under the heading “ Expendable equipment “. I repeat that whilst the proposed vote for the department is less than that incurred last year, that reduction is due to the fact that the sum of £1,1S5,000 is to be recovered in respect of works carried out for the Commonwealth Bank and various departments.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– It is true as the Leader of the. Opposition (Senator Cooper) has said, that at first glance there would appear to be a decrease of approximately £500,000 in the proposed vote >for this department compared with the actual expenditure incurred last year, That decrease has been brought about by special transfer of administrative expenditure of £1,000,000 to be absorbed in the new works votes of client departments, the object being that such departments should bear a proportion of the administrative expenditure incurred by the Department of Works and Housing in the planning and execution of the works projects of those departments. However, as the honorable senator also suggested, the department’s expenditure this year will be approximately £500,000 more than it was last year. That increase is made up as follows: Long-range weapon establishment. £80,000; cost of living adjustments, £50,000 ; automatic increments, £50,000; and provision for engagement of additional staff, £328,000. The obvious growth of the department has . been brought about by increasing pressure placed upon it to undertake great works throughout the length and breadth of the Commonwealth. Whereas in 1948 there were 11,600 men employed on departmental works either under the day labour system or of contractors, that number had increased to 16,000 at the 30th August last. That development has resulted in an automatic increase of departmental expenditure.

The item “ Expendable equipment “ has evolved from a change in the accounting methods employed by the department. Under that heading provision is being made to cover expenditure on items such as furniture, linen, cutlery and cooking utensils for use in government hostels in

Canberra, or in hostels that are required by client departments. That expenditure is now shown under this heading for the first; time.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The sum of £10,296 was expended last year in respect of the item “ Governor-General “ under the heading of “Repairs and Maintenance “. I take it that that expenditure was incurred mainly in connexion with the proposed Royal visit.

Senator Armstrong:

– That expenditure was incurred mainly at Admiralty House, Sydney, and at Government House, Canberra.

Senator KATZ:
Victoria

.- The sura of £1,418,000 is being provided in respect of salaries of temporary and casual employees. Having regard to the magnitude of that alloeation.it is essential that everything possible be done for the contentment of those employees. However, whilst tradesmen working for the Department of Works and Housing receive annual leave of two weeks, employees in similar trades in other departments, such as the Department of Aircraft Production, receive annual leave of three weeks. I suggest that uniformity should be established in such matters in the interests of the contentment of departmental employees.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– The annual leave of the employees of the Department of Works and Housing is prescribed under awards of the Arbitration Court and those of various industrial tribunals. The department adopts a fairly negative attitude in respect of matters that are submitted to those bodies. As the honorable senator knows, matters such as annual leave are determined by the Arbitration Court, and the’ department accepts the decisions of the court.

Senator KATZ:
Victoria

.- Perhaps, the Minister for Supply and Development (Senator Armstrong) is not aware that in Victoria and New South Wales all employees are entitled, under State law, to a fortnight’s annual leave. That provision applies to every industry independently of awards of the Arbitration Court. Therefore, employees of the

Department of “Works and Housing have no reason to feel very grateful for being given a fortnight’s annual leave, when employees in other government departments engaged in similar trades are given three weeks’ annual leave. My point is that greater contentment- could be established among the employees of the department if conditions governing their employment were made uniform throughout Australia.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South “Wales · ALP

– I appreciate the point that Senator Katz has made. The anomaly that he has mentioned existed among employees of the Department of Munitions at the time that I took charge of that department; conditions applying to one section of the employees of that department differed from those applying to another section. I took immediate steps to have that anomaly adjusted. Since that time, efforts have been made to establish uniformity among employees of all departments throughout the Commonwealth. However, because of individual action taken by different Ministers that uniformity has not been established. It has been decided that all claims regarding conditions of employment on behalf of employees of this type shall be handled through the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Holloway), and that course is being followed with the object of eliminating anomalies of the kind to which the honorable senator has referred.

Senator COOKE:
“Western Australia

.- Whilst the sum of £1,418,000 is being provided in respect of salaries of temporary and casual employees, the sum of only £903,000 is being provided for salaries of permanent employees of the department. I recognise that a similar disparity is shown in respect of other departments. However, in this instance the expenditure in respect of casual employees appears to be unusually high. I should like to be assured that the department will keep the number of its temporary and casual employees at the lowest possible level. That can be done by giving every opportunity to temporary employees to become permanent. If that were done, the employees concerned would enjoy a greater degree of security.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– Having regard to the nature of the work in which these classes of employees engage, the problem mentioned by the honorable senator is a very difficult one. A large proportion of the work of the department is done by members of the wages staff. In the Department of Supply and Development these classes of employees do not become permanent officers. Permanent appointment is a matter for the Public Service Board and under the present set-up employees, such as labourers have no possibility of being made permanent. I do not know how the problem can be solved. As I have said, it is a matter for determination by the Public Service Board. I also point out that many of these employees prefer to move from job to job for climatic, or family reasons and, therefore, as a rule they move around the country. I cannot suggest a solution of that problem at the moment.

Senator COOKE:
Western Australia

– Honorable senators will recall the time when the great majority of railway employees were temporary employees. As the result of the efforts of the Labour party that position has been changed altogether. To-day, a large proportion of railway employees are permanent. It is tragic to think that a man who works on a government undertaking until he passes middle age cannot be appointed permanently with the result that, sooner or later, he is displaced by a younger casual. When that happens many of those men who are semi-skilled find it very difficult to obtain employment elsewhere. I suggest that as the Government has plans for a works programme which is estimated to cost over £700,000,000, itmight consider the introduction of a system whereby the greatest possible number of employees engaged on such projects will be given the opportunity to be made permanent.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department op Supply and Development.

Proposed vote, £1,292,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

.- Whilst th” expenditure incurred ,by this’ department last year was £820,938, the sum of £1,292,000 is being allocated to it this year. Whereas the sum of £261,000 was voted to provide assistance to the mining industry last year only £102,086 of that sum was actually expended, whilst the allocation now being made for that purpose is £235,000. I should like the Minister to give some details of the items on which that sum will be expended. Apparently the department has some mining exploratory work in view.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– That is so. Exploratory work, in my opinion, is a very important aspect of the work of the Department of Supply and Development. It is interesting to note the growth of the type of endeavour that is now being applied in the mining industry. The old days of surface surveys are gone. Dril lings are now made to a considerable depth to ascertain what is underneath the ground. For instance, the known iron ore resources of this country have been tabulated and are estimated to be sufficient only for the next 80 or 100 years. New fields must be found. Therefore, much more extensive drilling operations and surveys have been undertaken. The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) is anxious to know what type of assistance is being given to the mining industry generally. The vote for this year includes £150,000 for assistance to the gold-mining industry.

Senator COOPER:

– Is that for exploratory work?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Assistance is given in many ways. Exploratory work is only one phase. For instance, assistance is provided for surveys of country surrounding known gold deposits. Cabinet has approved of a scheme, in principle, but has indicated that each individual request for assistance must be approved by both the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) and myself. Applications at present under consideration, for instance, include one from the New Occidental, Cobar, New South Wales, one from the Granites goldfield, Central Australia, a number from Western Australia, and some from certain small ventures in Victoria. On the ex ploratory drilling side, we are concentrating principally on coal and £15,000 has been voted this year for expenditure at the Ashford coal-field near Tenterfield in New South Wales. A further £15,000’ is included for work on the Coorabin coal-field near Oaklands in New South Wales. At various other coal-fields throughout Australia, a further £30,000- is to be expended. Of the £25,000 included under the heading “ Other Items “, £10,000 is for a reserve for payment to the Minerals Production Trust Account, should the present balance in that account be over expended. The two major projects for which the Minerals Production Trust Account is now used arethe Dorset Tin Dredge in Tasmania,, and the purchase and re-sale of mica. The sum of £15,000 is provided for assistance in the completion of oil drilling projects to which the Commonwealth has already advanced funds. The companies concerned are the Freney Kimberley Oil Company, in north-western Australia, and the Papuan Apinaipi Petroleum Company, Papua.

Senator CRITCHLEY:
South Australia

– I am interested in the Minister’s explanation of the assistance that is being given to the mining industry. I should like to know whether any financial assistance is being provided by the Commonwealth for the development of uranium, deposits at Radium Hill in South Australia. Has a request been made by the Government of South Australia for such assistance?

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– In company with theSouth Australian Director of Mines, I inspected the South Australian uranium deposits at Radium Hill and Mount. Painter a short time ago. I also went up through Central Australia to see our own uranium deposits in the Hartz Ranges. I can inform the honorablesenator that no request has been received from the Government of South Australia for assistance to either of those projects.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I have had some opportunitiesto observe the impact of the activities of the Department of Supply and Development upon Australian industries, and I should like to congratulate the department on the encouragement and assistance that it is giving. It is quite conceivable, of course, that other activities of the department are not worthy of my congratulations. However, what I have seen being done should give great satisfaction to those interested in the development of Australian industries, and J trust that the good work will continue. Now is the time to lay the foundation of self-sufficiency, which may be vital to us at some future date. I trust that the department will continue its efforts in this direction.

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania

– I should like to know whether the Minister for Supply and Development (Senator Armstrong) has had any recent reports from the Dorset Flats tin dredge in Tasmania. Is that undertaking continuing to pay its way? What are its plans for the future?

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– I have not the latest figures, but the last time I examined reports, we were well ahead financially. I believe that accumulated profits for the last financial year were well over £42,000. The project is proceeding gently, but, of course, one never knows what is going to happen in tin-mining operations. Tin deposits, like gold deposits, have a habit of disappearing suddenly, but, so far, the Commonwealth’s efforts to keep the undertaking going have been well worth while. The project has a substantial credit balance.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Civil Aviation.

Proposed vote, £5,367,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

. - This is a most necessary department and I am sure that all honorable senators will agree that it has done a remarkably good job. It is responsible for the safety of aircraft and their crews and passengers. It also provides aerodromes and landing facilities. The Australian people are among the most airminded in the world and a splendid record of safe flying has been contributed to in no small measure by the Department of Civil Aviation.

I am pleased that £50,000 is being voted for assistance to aero clubs. This money will be expended on grants and advances for the reconditioning of aircraft. Aero club members are flying enthusiasts, and the expenditure will be a sound investment because it will bring flying experience to hundreds of young men who, otherwise, would not have the opportunity to become pilots.

Under Division 65, “ International Air Services”, the sum of £31,000 is being voted for payment to Tasman Empire Airways Limited for the conveyance of mail on the Australia-New Zealand service. The vote in 1948-49 under this heading was only £25,000, but the actual expenditure in that year was £94,686. I should like to know the explanation of that substantia] increase.

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– It is very pleasant to hear the honorable senator pay a tribute to the Department of Civil Aviation. His praise is well merited. The work of the department has been excellent. Visitors from overseas have expressed their appreciation of the department’s regard for the safety of passengers carried on Australian airlines. The department’s efforts in this direction will continue and I confidently look forward to the day when air travel will be accepted by all as being just as safe as road or rail transport. The honorable senator has drawn attention to the substantial difference between the vote for 1948-49 and the actual expenditure in that year. I point out that that expenditure included the sum of £63,514 which was Australia’s share of the estimated deficit of Tasman Empire Airways Limited for the year ended the 31st March, 1949. No provision of this kind has been made for the current year because the estimated financial position of the company was not known when the Estimates were prepared.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– I notice that provision is made under the item “ Australia-America Service “ for the expenditure of £102,000 on ground facilities in the Pacific. I should like to know where these facilities are. Are they in American territory ? I should like to know also whether these ground facilities are landing aids as we know them in this country, or permanent buildings involving dollar expenditure. Is there any reciprocal agreement between Australian and American airlines for the use of landing facilities ?

Senator Cameron:

– The facilities are all on British territory and are located mainly at Fiji.

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania

– I refer to the matter of aerodrome fees and route charges. Although the liability of civil airlines to pay the Department of Civil Aviation for the use of its aerodromes and facilities it at present awaiting decision by the High Court, I should like the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation to inform me what action the Government proposes to take, regardless of what decision may be given by the High Court, to ensure that civil airlines pay their fair share for the maintenance of the expensive establishments and equipment maintained by the department. I point out that during the current year the department will expend £1,135,000 on the maintenance and development of civil aviation in this country and £222,500 on meteorological services. Obviously all that expenditure should not fall upon the general taxpayers. The progressive administration of the department, and the excellent navigational aids and services that it provides do not need to be stressed, but I repeat that a department which has expended such huge amounts of public money in the interests of civilian flying organizations is entitled to look to those organizations for recoupment of at least a portion of that huge expenditure.

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– The liability of civilian airlines to contribute towards the costs of maintenance of aerodromes and aviation facilities will shortly be determined by the High Court, and the Government will review the position in the light of the High Court’s determination.

Senator RANKIN:
Queensland

– I direct the attention of the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation to Division 65, “ International Air Services sections B and E., In the other sections in that division the recipients of payment for the conveyance of mails are specifically mentioned, but it may be significant that in those two sections the amount is shown simply as “ payment to contractor “. Can the Minister inform the Senate of the identity of the contractor in each instance?

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– The recipient in each instance is Qantas Empire Airways Limited.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
[8.49]. - I support the remarks made by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper · Queensland

concerning the splendid work carried out by the aero clubs. Whilst I acknowledge that £50,000 is to be provided under Division 62 as subsidy for aero clubs, I repeat what I said twelve months ago on this matter, namely, that it costs a trainee from £120 to £130 to qualify as a pilot. In addition, trainees also sacrifice a great deal of their leisure, which might otherwise be devoted to sport or amusement. I need hardly point out that should another war occur we will have to look to those young men who have had themselves trained as pilots, and I think that it would be a very reasonable gesture on the part of the Government to recoup trainees when they have qualified as pilots.

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– I agree with Senator O’sullivan that the services of trained pilots would be most valuable to Australia should another war occur, and that they are deserving of some encouragement. At the same time, I point out to the honorable senator that if the Government did not subsidize aero clubs so generously, the cost of- training that would have to be borne by prospective pilots would be very much higher than it is. However, I repeat that the service rendered to their country by those who voluntarily undergo training as pilots is most valuable, and I consider that the Government is under an obligation to compensate them, consistent with the financial resources available to it.

Senator MORROW:
Tasmania

– Can the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation inform the Senate of the total amount expended by the Department of Civil Aviation on the construction of aerodromes throughout Australia, and the annual cost of their maintenance?

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– The matter raised by Senator Morrow relates to the finances of works and services rather than to the vote of the Department of Civil Aviation, and I cannot furnish the information that he seeks.

Senator AYLETT:
Tasmania

– I refer the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation to item 1 of Division 62, which reads as follows : -

Aero clubs - Grants and advances for the reconditioning of aircraft, £50,000.

Will the Minister inform me whether any of that money may be used by the aero clubs to build or to extend hangars at the various aerodromes? In view of the contribution made by aero clubs throughout Australia in training pilots, I think that it is most unfair to them that they should have to seek funds by public subscription for the construction and extension of aircraft hangars. Would it be possible in future for the Government to make a larger grant to enable aero clubs to build or enlarge hangars at aerodromes?

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– I am advised that the aero clubs may use the special grants made to them for any purpose that they consider proper and that no restrictions are placed on the grants.

Senator CRITCHLEY:
South Australia

– I refer the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation to the proposed appropriation of £165,000 for “Domestic services”, contained in Division 68, “Repairs and maintenance”. What services are embraced in the vote for “ Domestic services “ ?

Senator CAMERON:
PostmasterGeneral · Victoria · ALP

– The item mentioned by the honorable senator relates to internal services.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Trade and Customs.

Proposed vote, £1,750,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The sum appropriated for the Department of

Trade and Customs for the last financial year was £1,513,000, so that it is apparent that the department’s expenditure will increase by £237,000. I draw the attention of the Senate to the fact that the amount proposed to be expended by the department in Victoria during the present financial year is estimated to increase by approximately £46,000 over the amount expended in that State during 1948-49. The provision under Division 73, “ Salaries and payments in the nature of salary “ indicates that the sum to be voted for payment to permanent officers of the department in Victoria is to be increased by £41,900, making the total amount to be expended on salaries in that State £295,000. Although the total number of officers employed by the department in Victoria has increased only by thirteen, the number of examining officers has increased from three to 40, which will increase the appropriation of examining officers’ salaries from £1,669 to £21,050, which is a difference of £19,381. Will the Minister explain the reason for the proposal to increase so considerably the number of examining officers engaged in Victoria ?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– An increased amount of £62,138 as been provided in the vote for salaries and payments in the nature of salary to meet the additional expenditure, which is made up as follows : -

Senator Cooper:

– Will the Minister inform me of the reason for the large increase of the number of examining officers in Victoria?

Senator ASHLEY:

– The increase has been occasioned by re-organization of staff and designations.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed vote - Department of Health, £547,000 - agreed to.

Department of Commerce and Agriculture.

Proposed vote, £908,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– It would appear that general expenses and the amount to be recovered from sales of flax fibre, under Division 89, “ Flax production “, are equalizing items. I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to inform me whether the amount to be recovered from sales of flax fibre will 1be the final amount so recoverable, or whether this will be a recurring item?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The sum of £530,000 to be recovered from the sale of flax fibre will not recur after relevant matters have been finalized.

Senator Cooper:

– Can the Minister inform me of the quantity of flax fibre still held by the Commonwealth, and when it is expected that production will be finalized?

Senator ASHLEY:

– I regret that the information is not readily available. Efforts are being made to dispose of the entire production unit.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote under Division 86, for representation in the United States of America in 1949-50, is £14,000, whilst the proposed vote for representation in Canada is £4,000. Have those estimates been prepared on a pre-devaluation basis?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– That is so. Additional expenditure will now be involved because of devaluation of the pound in relation to the dollar.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– The proposed vote under Division 86, for representation in India in 1949-50 is £10,000, whilst the proposed vote for representation in Pakistan is £1,500. Will the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) inform me of the reason why the representation in Pakistan is expected to involve only such a nominal figure? Is it because we have not yet established a commercial intelligence service there?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– Although Australian representation has been established in India for a consider able time, we are only now establishing representation in Pakistan.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– I notice that no provision has been made under Division 86 for representation in China in 1949-50. Presumably Australia will not be represented in China. The proposed vote for 1949-50 for representation in the Netherlands East Indies is £1,000, whilst the expenditure in 1948-49 was only £71. I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to inform me of the present position in relation of Australian representation there.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– Australia will not be represented in China. It is hoped to establish Australian representation in the Netherlands East Indies this year.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Social Services.

Proposed vote, £976,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote under Division 91, “ Child Endowment Branch - General Expenses “, for commission on payments mad© by banks and post offices is £30,000. The expenditure in 1948-49 was £26,581. I should like the Minister for Health (Senator McKenna) to inform me of the reason for the vote of such a large sum of money for this purpose.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

– The explanation lies in the fact that the department pays to the Postal Department and certain other agencies annual amounts for services rendered in connexion with the distribution of social services benefits. The increase of the proposed vote compared’ with expenditure in 1948-49 is only £3,419. This is a normal development of a service which has been a feature of the budget for very many years.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Shipping and Fuel.

Proposed vote, £810,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote- compared with an expenditure of £2,778,196 in 194S-49, represents a decrease of £1,968,196. However, there is no proposed vote for 1949-50 in respect of Division 103a, “ Shipping Branch “, although there was an expenditure of £1,939,364 under this heading in 1948-49. The proposed vote for expenditure pursuant to the Shipping Act 1949, under Division ISO. is £1,000,000. It would appear that although a decrease of £1,939,364 is shown under Division 103a, there will be a slight increase of expenditure. The proposed vote under Division 105 for the overhaul and repair of a departmental vessel - Prime Minister’s Department - in 1949-50 is £2,600, whilst the expenditure under this heading in 1.948-49 was £2,626. Will the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) inform me of the type of vessel referred to?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The vessel in question is connected with the maritime branch and1 is on charge to the Prime Minister’s Department.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– The expenditure in 1948-49 under Division 103a with relation to government owned and controlled tonnage was £1,146,805. I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to inform me whether that expenditure was incurred in connexion with the charter of overseas vessels such as Inchmark, Inchmay, Inchcharron, and other vessels that have been seen on the Australian coast with port of registry Hong Kong, owned by the Williamson Shipping Line and manned by Chinese crews. Is the shipping position in this country still such that we require the assistance of overseas chartered tonnage?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– Overseas vessels that were chartered to assist Australian services have been de-requisitioned and their charters cancelled. As new ships are constructed’ in Australia they will be placed in service and other overseas ships released from charter.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of External Territories.

Proposed vote, £78,000.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I should like the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to inform me whether the proposed1 vote will cover expenditure in connexion with Papua, New Guinea and Norfolk Island. I point out that miscellaneous services in connexion with Norfolk Island are grouped under Division 255, whereas the most minute details are shown with relation to the Northern Territory. Can the Minister tell me where those details can be obtained?

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New SouthWales · ALP

– Apparently the varying methods of presenting the Estimates arise from the different procedures adopted by the Department of the Interior, which administers the Northern Territory, and the Department of External Territories. The accounts of the external territories are covered by ordinances, which will be presented to this Parliament later this year or to the next Parliament early next year. Therefore, I am unable to supply the honorable senator with the details that he seeks.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– My point is that, as both departments are answerable to this Parliament, details Qf proposed expenditure for the externa] territories should be submitted to us now. At page 410 of the schedule, the salaries of individual officers employed in the Northern Territory under the control of the Department of the Interior are set out in detail. No such information is supplied in relation to the administration of the external territories. We are merely informed, for instance, that the proposed vote for “ Grant to Administration towards expenses including native welfare, development, war damage and reconstruction”, is £3,400,000. That is a lot of money. Can the Minister tell me where I can obtain the details that I seek now?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator Aylett:
TASMANIA

– Order! The committee is discussing the proposed vote for the Department of External Territories. The Estimates will be dealt with in detail at a later stage of the proceedings under the heading of “ Territories of the Commonwealth “.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– That is all that I wish to know. If the information can be made available to me later to-night, I shall be content.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
Minister for Supply and Development · New South Wales · ALP

– I am informed by the Secretary of the Department of External Territories that the reason for the absence of details is that funds are made available for the external territories by way of grant. An appropriation ordinance giving full details of the proposed method of expending the funds will be brought down later.For instance, earlier this year an ordinance containing minute details of expenditure in the external territories was tabled in the Parliament. It was open for discussion in this chamber on that occasion. A similar ordinance is now being prepared, but it will not be in readiness for presentation during the remaining life of this Parliament. It will be presented early in the life of the next Parliament, which can make a detailed examination of the proposed expenditure.

Senator O’Sullivan:

– Then the next Parliament will have the opportunity to review expenditure in Papua, New Guinea and Norfolk Island?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Yes.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Immigration.

Proposed vote, £613,000.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– The proposed vote for the salaries and allowances of permanent officers of the Department of Immigration for 1949-50 is £258,000, as compared with an amount of £198,000 that was appropriated for 1948-49. I am eager to know whether the salaries of the drafting officers and welfare officers who accompany migrants to Australia on board ship are paid by the department from its own appropriation or from funds provided by the International Refugee Organization. Last week eight migrant ships brought an influx of 4,407 migrants to this country. Of that number, 2,890 were British immigrants. I understand that each ship carried officers whose task was to educate the new arrivals in the Australian way of life and to assist them upon their arrival in this country. Are the salaries of those officers provided by the Commonwealth or by the International Refugee Organization?

Senator Armstrong:

– They are provided by the Department of Immigration.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– First, I pay a high compliment to the Minister for Immigration (Mr. Calwell). His administration of Australia’s immigration scheme has been exemplary. When I visited London last year, I was particularly impressed by the organization that he had established at Australia House. The immigration officers there were dealing with vast numbers of prospective migrants courteously and effectively and were always ready to answer the many and varied questions that were put to them. They deserve high praise. Many of the requests made by prospective immigrants were not easy to deal with, especially as applicants then had to wait a considerable time before they could leave for Australia. Transport has been improved considerably since then, and delays have been reduced. The proposed vote for the administrative expenses of the department in 19.49-50 is . £613,000, almost double the amount appropriated last year. The actual costs of bringing immigrants to Australia and caring for them in camps and hostels are not dealt with in this division of the Estimates. Millions of pounds are involved in this work, and the estimate for the current year will be considered by the committee at a later stage. Only a few days ago I asked a question of the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration in the Senate concerning the numbers of alien and British immigrants arriving in Australia. The ratio of aliens to British citizens is of great importance. I also asked what percentage of Australia’s population consisted of persons of British origin at the 31st December, 1948. The Minister replied that he could not supply that information. Australians have always taken pride in the fact that 98 per cent, of our population consists of people of British origin. I realize that the flow of immigrants of alien origin will soon pass its peak. Very good work has been done under the auspices of the International Refugee Organization in bringing persons of foreign extraction to Australia. “When I was abroad recently, I visited camps in Europe where people known as displaced persons were congregated, and I took the opportunity to study the screening methods applied by Australian immigration officials to prospective immigrants. Those officers were doing a wonderful job in checking the health and character records of applicants. I gained the impression that good types of displaced persons were being sent to Australia. After visiting those camps, I realized what dreadful sufferings had been experienced by displaced persons. “We in Australia, who have always enjoyed freedom, should do everything possible to welcome such persons to our community. Although we should provide a haven for thom, we should take care at the same time to keep the ratio of alien immigrants to British immigrants within reasonable bounds. In reply to the question that I asked, the Minister for Immigration informed me that, from the 1st January to the 31st May, 1949, 29,596 British immigrants and 29^595 aliens arrived in Australia. From the 1st October, 1945, to the 1st May, .1949, the totals were 112,020 British immigrants and 62,322 aliens. Over that period of three and a half years, British immigrants represented only 60 per cent, of the total number of new arrivals. That proportion is likely to diminish by the end of this year, as nominations of British immigrants are declining in number, whereas the flow of aliens has given no sign of decreasing yet. Displaced persons have been arriving from Europe at the rate of approximately 8,000 each month, and at the 30th June, approximately 110,000 of them had entered Australia since the inception of what might be described as the “mercy scheme “. It is expected that over 40,000 British immigrants will enter Australia this year under the free and assisted passage scheme. That number, of course, does not include others who have paid their own fares and are also immigrants in the true sense. It appears that the flood of alien immigrants will commence to recede about eighteen months hence. British immigrants are arriving in a steady stream and we all hope that it will continue to flow for many years to the economic advantage of both Australia and the United Kingdom. The system under which ex-servicemen in the United Kingdom are nominated by exservicemen in Australia is excellent, and I hope that it will continue to operate for a long time. I visited the headquarters of the principal ex-servicemen’s organization in London, while I was in the United Kingdom and found that British ex-servicemen were deeply appreciative of the scheme. I am glad that it is now working smoothly and is being developed gradually. I have no questions to ask concerning the administrative expenditure of the Department of Immigration, and I shall reserve other questions until the committee is considering the proposed vote covering the transportation of immigrants to Australia.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Department of Labour and National Service.

Proposed vote, £1,396,000.

Senator RANKIN:
Queensland

– I seek information from the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service concerning the item in this division which deals with the extension of technical college training facilities. The amount appropriated under this heading last year was £10,000, but none of that money was expended. The proposed vote for 1949-50 is £1,000. Can the Minister ‘explain the purpose of this item?

Senator Ashley:

– The sum mentioned by the honorable senator represents fees charged which are recoverable.

Senator KATZ:
Victoria

.- The sum of £650,000 is being provided for salaries of temporary and casual employees whereas the sum of only £490,000 is being provided for salaries of permanent employees. Apparently, temporary employees do not enjoy privileges similar to those extended to permanent employees. I know of the case of a man who has worked in this department for many years. He wants to visit his mother in Great Britain, but when he applied for six months’ leave of absence to enable him to do so his request was refused. He was simply told that he could not be given leave of absence. In view of the large number of temporary employees now engaged in various departments, greater consideration should be given to them in cases of the kind that I have mentioned.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The work of the department is rapidly increasing. The matter of granting leave of absence is entirely a matter for the Public Service Board. However, if the honorable senator will supply me with particulars of the case that he has mentioned I shall bring it to the notice of the Minister.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– I refer to the item “ International Labour Organization - Silicosis Conference “ for which the sum of £13,000 is being allocated. In view of the great urgency of combating the dread disease of silicosis, which is an occupational disease affecting mainly miners and quarry workers resulting from dust on the lungs, can the Minister inform me where the conference is to be held, and who will represent Australia at it?

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– Offhand, I cannot say where the conference is to be held. However, I assure the honorable senator that the persons who will be selected to represent Australia at it will be worthy representatives of this country. Generally, such representatives are selected from persons who possess an intimate knowledge of the mining industry. The Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Holloway) has had considerable experience in the industrial movement in this country, and I have no doubt that he will ensure that Australia will be worthily represented at the conference.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The sum of £25,000 is being provided in respect of the item “ Hostels Trust Accounts - working advance (to be recovered) “. Apparently, the item is of recent origin because, whilst the sum of £20,532 was expended under that heading last year, no money was then voted for that pur pose. Could the Minister give some information about that item?

Senator Ashley:

– That allocation is for the provision of initial equipment for hostels for displaced persons.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed votes - Department of Transport, £149,000, and Department of Information, £339,000- agreed to.

Department of Post-war Reconstruction.

Proposed vote, £848,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The proposed vote of £848,000 for this department represents an increase of £122,907 over the actual expenditure last year. I should like further information concerning the item “ Research Projects “ for which the sum of £5,000 was voted last year but only £573 of it was expended, whilst the allocation now being made amounts to £4,000. The sum of £50 was expended on the item “Industrial Welfare Course - University of Melbourne - contribution towards cost” for which £1,310 is now being allocated; and the sum of £1,500 is being provided for South-East Asia scholarships for which only £555 was provided last year. I should like the Minister to give me details about those three items.

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– The provision of £4,000 for research projects represents funds for the purchase of material and the provision of contract services of a research nature in fields of importance for Australian education. Of that sum. approximately £2,200 is being provided for surveys and studies of educational problems, mainly in connexion with success in schooling and selection for universities and for secondary education. The study of university success includes a detailed analysis of failures under the reconstruction training scheme at the University of Sydney. It is hoped that as the result of that study it will be possible to improve selection methods for Commonwealth scholarships. In connexion with proposals for assistance to students in secondary education, studies are being made of selection techniques. Approximately £1,300 is being provided for the developments of tests for use in connexion with the education of new Australians, so that succus8 can be graded effectively according to the language aptitude of the students and efficient testing of learning can be carried out. Approximately £500 is being provided for two films to be produced ‘by editing from existing stock for experimental work in the use of visual aids.

In respect of the item “ Industrial “Welfare Course - University of Melbourne - contribution towards cost “, the sum of £50 actually expended last year was to meet the balance of cost of the first year of this course which was originally intended to commence in the preceding year. Provision is now being made for a full year’s course. In August, 1947, a proposal to establish a course in personnel practice and industrial welfare, was discussed by representatives of the Universities Commission, the University of Melbourne, the Department of Labour and National Service and the Australian Council of Trades Unions, and it was then agreed that the establishment of the course was desirable. Training in personnel practice aims at providing a scientific approach by trained personnel to industrial problems and the long-range aim is to increase production and reduce industrial unrest. The university course which represents a logical attempt to provide fully systematized professional training is not at the same level as the technical college courses which are designed to train workers for higher administrative positions in industry but consist in part of personal practice.

The item “South-East Asia Scholarships “ is a new item that has been included in the Estimates in accordance with a Cabinet approval which limits expenditure under the scheme for the provision of fellowships and scholarships to a maximum of £5,000 in any one year. Expenditure amounting to £555 was provided from supplementary estimates last year and the .£1,500 now being provided for the current year is based upon the estimate that six scholarships will be granted but these will carry benefits for part only of the year.

Senator MURRAY:
Tasmania

– I am glad to note that the provision in respect of financial assistance to university students is being increased from £225,000, the amount voted last year, to £250,000 for the current year. I should like the Minister to explain the conditions under which those payments are made to university students. Are they made direct to students to cover the cost of their subsistence or to the universities as payment in respect of fees ? I know of many cases of students with outstanding educational qualifications who from time to time have found themselves in financial straits.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

.- This proposed expenditure covers approximately 720 students who are being assisted through tertiary education. Under a scheme that was announced quite recently, there will be approximately 3,000 scholarships annually instead of the present 720. That scheme will be developed very extensively in the not distant future. At present, money is paid to the universities to cover fees in appropriate cases, but the hulk of the expenditure is on the living allow- ‘ances of students. That money is paid subject to a means .test which was recently liberalized. “When the new scheme involving 3,000 scholarships annually is inaugurated, the means test will be further liberalized. The honorable senator may take it that the bulk of the expenditure about which he has inquired will be paid by way of living allowances to students. Of every £125 expended, an average of £100 will be paid by way of living allowances, and the remaining £25 will he paid in fees to universities. On the 31st August last, 1,78’5 students were receiving assistance. That was the accumulation of students who, in .the post-war years, had been fed into the scheme at. the rate of 720 a year. There lies ahead the very big problem of providing the teaching personnel and facilities to cater adequately for the much greater number of students that the Commonwealth proposes to assist. There will still be a means test in respect of living allowances, and a distinction will be made between. students living at home and those living away from home. There will be a higher payment for those who live away from home. However, no means test will be applied to the payment of university fees. The means test in respect of living allowances will be much more liberal than that at present in operation.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization.

Proposed vote, £1,942,000.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I pay a compliment to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization for its splendid work from the time of its inception until it was placed under departmental control early this year. I trust that that control will be sparingly exercised. For many years, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research enjoyed complete freedom from party political influences. That accounts no doubt for the splendid work that it accomplished, and the ensuing benefits to various phases of Australian industry. I sincerely urge the Government to keep the clammy hand of party politics away from this fine organization.

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · TASMANIA · ALP

– On behalf of the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction (Mr. Dedman) and of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization itself, I express appreciation of the laudatory comments made by Senator O’Sullivan earlier to-night. I have not noticed any clamminess about the hand of the Government, and I regret that the honorable senator rather detracted from his generous tribute to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization. Honorable senators from Queensland should be especially grateful to that organization.

Senator O’Sullivan:

– Hear, hear!

Senator McKENNA:
ALP

– Through the excellent investigatory work of that organization into the difficulties of tobacco-growing, particularly in the Burdekin River Valley, the State of Queensland profited considerably. Quite a number of other useful investigations throughout Australia have conferred substantial benefits upon primary producers. In addition, a survey has been made of approximately 250,000 “square miles of territory in the northern portions of Australia, particularly the Katharine-Darwin region.. Extensive soil tests and vegetation surveys have been carried out in that area. I shall be glad to convey the honorable senator’s commendation to officials of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization. The Government, of course, is quite used to all kinds of attacks and comments, mostly unjustified, and it will not be hurt by the latter portion of the honorable senator’s remarks.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Defence Services.

Proposed vote, £44,237,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– The vote now under consideration includes provision for the Department of Defence, the Department of the Navy, the Department of the Army, the Department of Air, and the Department of Supply and Development. I note that although the vote for 1948-49 under the heading “ Defence Services “ was £60,785,000 the actual expenditure was only £55,903,726. I should have thought that every effort would be made to expand our defence services to the fullest degree possible within the limitation of the vote, but now we find that the expenditure for 1948-49 was neary £5,000,000 less than the sum voted. That would suggest that some phase of the Government’s defence programme is lagging. This year, the vote has been reduced to £44,237,000. Admittedly an allowance of £10,611,000 must be made for certain items of capital expenditure which were included under the “ Defence Services “ vote last year, but which this year are included under the vote for “Capital Works and Services”. However, that still leaves this year’s vote approximately £6,000,000 below that for 1948-49. There is amongst high military authorities in this country, deep concern over the inadequacy of Australia’s existing defence forces. Speaking in Melbourne on the 15th September last, LieutenantGeneral Savige, an officer with a distinguished war record, said that the Australian Government’s failure to train an adequate number of men to use modern weapons of war was a menace to the safety of Australia. I am endeavouring to discuss the important subject of defence on a high plane. I do not criticize any phase of our defence activities. My only regret is that approximately £5,000,000 of last year’s vote remained unexpended at the end of the financial year. I should have preferred an overexpenditure. Lieutenant-General Savige, I remind honorable senators, was appointed by the Labour Government to the important post of Director of Demobilization at the end of “World War II.

Senator Sheehan:

– And he did a good job.

Senator COOPER:

– Certainly he did.

Senator Ashley:

Mr. Deputy President, I remind the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) that unless he directs a plain question to me on the defence vote, I shall not be able to provide him with a satisfactory reply. The honorable senator is making a speech, and I am unable to follow what he is driving at.

Senator COOPER:

– I have already asked why the vote for this year under the heading “ Defence Services “ is less than it was last year. I should like to know whether adequate defence precautions are being taken. I am speaking as a layman. The Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) has his departmental advisers at his side. My view is that the size of this year’s vote indicates that our defence forces are considerably below strength.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Nicholls:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Order! The honorable senator is entitled to make a fifteen-minute speech on the proposed vote now under consideration, and need not ask questions unless he wishes to do so.

Senator COOPER:

– Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In the speech to which I have already referred, Lieutenant-General Savige pointed out that the infantryman could no longer be regarded as a “footslogger “. He had become a highly trained specialist, using a great variety of scientific weapons. Only by universal training was it possible to keep enough men abreast of modern developments. I have no doubt that warfare has made great strides even since World War II. ended. The weapons of the next war will be intricate, and the people who are to use them will require long training. The Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley) stated recently that the Government had considered compulsory military training, and was of the opinion that the present defence policy provided the maximum degree of security within the resources available. What actually is the organization and strength of Australia’s defence forces? Despite reassuring statements made from time to time by various Ministers about enlistments in -the services, many officers of high rank are seriously perturbed at the present position. Lieutenant-General Savige has gone so far as to say - “ The present defence policy is dangerous “. Two world wars have demonstrated the fallacy of trying to train men for battle after a well-equipped enemy is- on tha march. That weakness would be accentuated in any future war as there would be less time for men to learn to use the intricate weapons that modern ‘ science has provided. Time is now the important factor. Developments in the air have practically annihilated space. There will be no opportunity to commence training after hostilities have commenced. It is infinitely preferable that we should train men now to enable Australia to withstand an invasion, rather than to attempt to train them after hostilities begin. I asked a question in the Senate recently concerning the strength and establishments of the Australian Regular Army and the Citizen Military Forces, and the answers furnished indicated that some of our military units are at only half strength. That is a most serious situation, and the Government should adopt the suggestion made by the Returned Servicemen’s League and hold a referendum on the subject pf compulsory military training. Lieutenant-General Sturdee, who recently returned from the United Kingdom, where he closely examined modern military methods- /

Senator Ashley:

– The Leader of the Opposition is obviously reading from a document, and I suggest that he should lay the document on the table when he concludes his remarks.

Senator COOPER:

– I shall be only too pleased to do so, and I am delighted that the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) has at last taken some interest in the defence of the country. I was saying that on his return to Australia, Lieutenant-General Sturdee said that compulsory national service in Great Britain was a very good thing. The General explained that after eighteen months’ service in the regular army, soldiers served for four years with the territorial army. To return to the Government’s defence policy, I point out that the Government has spoken with two voices on this matter. Recently the Minister for Defence (Mr. Dedman) airily brushed aside any suggestion of the likely occurrence of war, asserting that war would not occur during the next ten or fifteen years. Yet only two days later the Minister for External Affairs (Dr. Evatt) stated that although war was not inevitable, it would be the height of folly to neglect our defence preparations. I do not criticize the details of the expenditure proposed for the defence services because that is more properly the function of a defence expert, but I draw attention to the fact that the Government has not expended even the money which was appropriated for defence services last year. Undoubtedly it expected to receive a better response to’ its campaign for recruits for the Australian Regular Army. In conclusion, I lay on the table of the Senate the few notes, including cartoons of the Minister for External Affairs, and the Minister for Defence, from which I was reading when the Minister for Shipping and Fuel asked me to produce them to the committee.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South WalesMinister for Shipping and Fuel · ALP

– The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper) criticized the Government for not having expended more money on defence purposes. He said that although the sum of £60,785,000 had been voted for the last financial year only £55,903,726 was actually expended. He also criticized the Government because the proposed vote of £44,237,000 for the current financial year is approximately £11,000,000 less than was expended during the last financial year, and asserted that the decrease indicated the Government’s indifference to the defence of this country. I point out at once that Labour attained office because of the indifference, incompetence and neglect of the anti-Labour administration that the honorable senator supported in 1941. It is all very well for him to complain that I am endeavouring to restrict his criticism. I do not object to fair criticism of the Government, but I do object to the honorable senator, under the pretence of seeking information about proposed votes, reading lengthy statements of other people’s views to honorable senators. For instance, a few minutes ago he read a statement made by Lieutenant-General Savige, and a little later he mentioned a statement by LieutenantGeneral Sturdee. In the debate on this measure, particularly during the committee stages, I am quite willing to furnish information in reply to matters raised by honorable senators, and I am sorry that the Leader of the Opposition took umbrage when I objected to him reading a lengthy statement by some person ouside the Parliament. So far as the defence of the country is concerned, I repeat that very little credit is due to the Administration which the honorable senator supported in the beginning of the recent war. There can be no doubt that Labour supplied the administration that organized the successful defence of this country, for which I pay full tribute to the troops concerned.

Concerning the honorable senator’s criticism of the Government that the vote for defence purposes should not have been reduced below the amountvoted last financial year, I point out that the large sum voted for that purpose last year included funds for the purchase of one aircraft-carrier and the part payment of another, as well as substantial sums to discharge the many outstanding obligations of the war. The honorable senator also criticized’ the Government because the amount proposed to be appropriated for defence purposes had varied from year to year. He contended that a reduction of the amount voted last year indicated a lack of steadiness in the Government’s defence policy. If the Government had proposed to increase the amount to be appropriated during the current financial year over the amount provided last year, I have no doubt that the Leader of the Opposition would have had some criticism to offer. The answer to that criticism, of course, is that the nation’s defence requirements vary from year to year, and that money must be provided in accordance with the actual requirements of any particular financial year. That the people appreciate the present Government’s concern for the proper defence of this country is amply demonstrated by the fact that they have returned’ Labour to office at the last two general elections.

Senator MURRAY (Tasmania) J0.10’. - Whilst it is not necessary for me to add’ to the reply made by the Minister for Shipping and Fuel (Senator Ashley) to the criticisms of the Government’s defence policy advanced by the , Leader of the Opposition (Senator Cooper), I take the opportunity, as one who had some experience of hostilitiesduring the recent war, to point out that there is considerable disparity in the opinions expressed’ by various senior officers of the regular forces concerning the likelihood of the outbreak of war. All senior officers are not in agreement with the views expressed by Lieutenant-General Sturdee, who was quoted by the Leader of the Opposition. Incidentally, General Sturdee is on the eve of retirement, and I challenge the wisdom of sending an officer who is about to retire to attend a special course at the Staff College at Camberley. I think that we should have selected a younger officer who, whilst not necessarily convinced of the inevitability of the occurrence of war, was sufficiently mindful of the need to modernize our military defences.

The proposed vote under Division 137 indicates an increase of the expenditure on the Royal Military College, Duntroon, which is the cradle of cur Army, from £72,100 to £82,000, which is an increase of approximately £10,000. Whilst I greatly admire that institution, I think that it could be improved considerably by the establishment of a regular faculty of military science, so that when the cadets graduate they could obtain a degree of military science. The value of establishing such a faculty is that on retirement from the Regular Army an officer would have received the special training, for which he would possess credentials, to enable him to obtain civilian employment that would benefit his country as well as himself. While the cadets are receiving general military training at Duntroon, they could be seconded to Commonwealth departments, such as the Department of Works and Housing and the PostmasterGeneral’s Department, for specialized training in various phases of engineering and other professions. As an illustration of the practicality of the suggestion that I am making, I point out that members of the United States Army Engineer Corps have constructed dams to the value of many millions of dollars, which have been of incalcuable value to their country. While serving their country in time of peace they receive excellent training for war. After all, nearly 99 per cent, of modern war is based upon science and engineering, and almost the only difference between carrying out many of the specialized functions of the Army in peace and in war, is that in war those operations have to be conducted more speedily and under the stress of danger.

During 1948-49 £39,724 was expended by the Government as a subsidy for rifle clubs throughout Australia. During the current financial year £53,000 is to be appropriated for that purpose. Although that represents an increase of £13,276, it apparently escaped completely the attention of the Leader of the Opposition. However, the point that I make now, is that the provision of even £53,000 is not sufficient. Our experience in New Guinea, New Britain and Bougainville during the recent war proved abundantly that expert snipers are very deadly and can be of very great assistance to an army. So deadly were they, indeed, that many of the native boys in New Guinea infantry battalions with whom I was associated killed as many as 100 Japanese each. Because of the natural marksmanship, ingenuity and resource of the average Australian he is particularly well qualified for the role of .sniper. It is necessary, therefore, that we should do everything possible to encourage our young men to acquire skill in marksmanship. Why cannot we in our wisdom encourage these people voluntarily? We hear a lot about compulsion. The men in the rifle clubs are good sports, who take an interest in the Saturday afternoon shoots, travel about the country, and encourage men to join rifle clubs. The atmosphere is good and I see no reason why the subsidy paid to rifle clubs should not be increased. There is every reason why the purchase price of rifles and ammunition from the defence services should be reduced. Senator Ashley made a very effective reply to the Leader of the Opposition during his attack on the Defence Vote and, to use his term, the inadequacy of our preparations. The newly appointed Chief of Staff, Lieutenant-General Rowell, has an entirely different opinion from that of the two generals who were mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition. LieutenantGeneral Rowell has pointed out that he is opposed to compulsory military training. I agree that the best soldier is he who is prepared to come forward voluntarily and give up his spare time in order to improve the defence of this country. The experiences in two world wars have shown that the volunteer is better than the conscript soldier.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

– I am astounded at the concluding remarks of. Senator Murray. Although I have not seen any reference of Lieutenant-General Rowell condemning universal service, I consider that the circumstances upon which General Blarney based his condemnation of the voluntary system still prevail. I understand that the Government’s overall target is the establishment of an army of about 69,000 men. According to figures recently released by the Minister for the Army (Mr. Chambers) only approximately 31,000 men have enrolled. Less than half of the objective has been achieved. Of that number only about 16,000 are private soldiers. The remainder are either officers or noncommissioned officers. We therefore have the spectacle of an army in which there is only one private soldier to each commissioned and non-commissioned officer. That is a farcical state of affairs. It is very like the Swiss navy! What is the objection to universal service? In both the United States of America and New

Zealand there is universal service, and according to press reports there is a very substantial feeling in the ranks of the Australian Labour party in favour of it. When speaking in support of universal training in 1909 the late Andrew Fisher said that it was not only the duty but also the privilege of every Australian to be in a position adequately to defend his country in its hour of need. How oan we ask the United States of America for complete co-operation while we continue to limit the distance out of this country to which our soldiers may go, and on an entirely voluntary basis? In effect, wo say to the Americans, “ Conscript your people for the defence and maintenance of our voluntary system “. That is sheer humbug. No wonder we have not been able to reach an agreement with the United States of America in relation to the Pacific Defence Pact! As a matter of sheer pride how can we ask the United States of America and New Zealand to conscript their citizens to come and defend us when we have a government which has not the courage to apply universal service? I am quite sure that not only the ex-servicemen’s associations, but also an overwhelming percentage of the people of Australia would readily accept universal service.

Senator Ashley:

– Is the honorable senator going to advocate universal service during the forthcoming election campaign?

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– Yes. Of course, I am speaking for myself. Senator Ashley is getting very acidly lately. I do not know whether that is because of old age or fatigue. I am not regimented as he is, but speak as a free man. It is because I want to preserve that freedom that I should like to see our citizens put in ‘a position to be able to defend themselves and not have to rely on the generosity of the peoples of other nations. On present figures, our voluntary system is a complete farce. Fancy having a position in our Army where there is only one private soldier to each officer and noncommissioned officer! Under the voluntary system it generally happens that those people who do not need training md discipline are the ones who volunteer, whilst those who need them most do not volunteer. I urge the Government to give very serious consideration to this matter. The Government will not lose by it. Indeed I am convinced that an overwhelming majority of the people of Australia would readily accept a system of universal service. From the point of view of national pride I think that we should have a good look at ourselves and consider the indignity and humiliation to which we are submitting our country when we beseech the United States of America and New Zealand - as we have done - to co-operate with us in the defence of the Pacific. Whilst each of those countries has a system of universal training we are continuing with our haphazard happy-go-lucky volunteer system.

Allied with defence is the question of Manus Island. On the 8th November, 1946, as reported in Hansard, volume 189, at page 101, the Minister for External Affairs (Dr. Evatt) said in another place in relation to this matter -

From the conversations that I had with Mr. Byrnes- who was at that time Secretary of State in the United States of America -

Admiral Nimitz, and others, I have every reason to suppose that a satisfactory arrangement would be come to, not aimed against any country but with a view to sharing the necessary expense and the heavy obligation imposed by the defence of such a vast area of the Pacific. I have no reason to suppose that some such arrangement will not bc come to.

As reported in Hansard, volume 189, at page 344, on the 15th November, 1946, the Minister for External Affairs said in the House of Representatives -

  1. . I repeat, that the matter of Manus Island is still under negotiation . . .

Yet when a question was asked about this matter in the House of Representatives on the 22nd February last the Minister for External Affairs replied-

Senator Ashley:

– I rise to order. I submit that a matter raised by way of a question in the House of Representatives during the current session of the Parliament cannot be introduced.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Senator Aylett:

Senator O’sullivan cannot refer to a question asked in the House of Representatives during the current session of the Parliament.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– I claim -that Standing Order 414 permits me to do so.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Whilst the honorable senator is in order in referring to a matter raised during a previous session of the Parliament, it is not permissible for him to refer to a matter that was raised in the House of Representatives during the current session.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– Standing Order 414 reads -

No Senator shall read extracts from newspapers or other Documents, except Hansard, referring to Debates in the Senate during the same Session.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– But Standing Order 416 provides -

No Senator shall allude to any Debate of the current Session in the House of Representatives, or to any measure impending therein.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– I do not wish to refer to a debate, but to an answer to a question.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– That is the same thing.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– I press my submission that I am entitled to refer to an answer to a question asked during the current session of the Parliament in the House of Representatives.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.I rule that the honorable senator is in order.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

– In the course of his reply the Minister for External Affairs said -

  1. . No offer was made …

That is, no offer was made by the United States of America in regard to the establishment of a base on Manus Island. The following day, in answer to a question, the Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley) said -

Concerning that portion of the honorable member’s question which relates’ to Manus Island and the reported difference of opinion between the Governments of the United States of America and this country in connexion therewith, the position is that the only foundation for the alleged difference of opinion is a statement which appeared in the press some time ago. There was no foundation in fact for that statement . . . There never has been any difference of opinion between this country and the United States of America concerning Manus Island. No request was made by the United States Government to this Government to be permitted to take ever Manus

Island for the purpose of establishing a forward naval base in the Pacific …I repeat that no offer has been made by the Americans to establish a base at Manus, and no discussion, still less any dispute, has occurred between ourselves and the Americans in regard to that island.

Although in 1946 the Minister for External Affairs said that he had no reason to suppose that an arrangement would not he come to, and that the matter of Manus Island was still under negotiation, on the 23rd February, 1949, the Prime Minister said that no such discussion ever took place. Which is correct?

Proposed vote agreed to.

Miscellaneous Services.

Proposed vote, £12,573,000.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

.- The proposed vote for 1949-50 under Divisions 182 and 182 - Department of Immigration - is £8,355,000. The proposed vote under Division 181 for child migration, British and foreign, in 1949-50, is £29,000. The appropriation for 1948-49 was £45,000 and the expenditure amounted to £11,276. Can the Minister tell the Senate how many child migrants were provided for in 1948-49?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– I have no information relating to the number of child immigrants sponsored last year, but the proposed vote for 1949-50 is intended to provide for 500 children.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

– Division 181 contains an item of £130,000 to provide capital grants for approved child and youth organizations. The amount appropriated last year was £100,000, of which £14,683 was expended. Can the Minister tell the Senate what organizations have received grants and to what organizations the Government proposes to make grants during 1949-50?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The proposed vote is intended to finance the Commonwealth’s share of assistance to child and youth migration organizations by the Commonwealth and the States. The object is to provide essential facilities, such as staffs, build ings for the accommodation of child and youth immigrants, equipment, and amenities.

Senator Cooper:

– Have any grants been made this year?

Senator ASHLEY:

– It is proposed to make a grant to the Northcote Children’s Farm School at Glenmore in Victoria this year.

Senator RANKIN:
Queensland

– Division 179, relating to the Department of Social Services, provides for a grant of £.15,000 this year for a housekeeper service. When this subject was raised last year, I looked forward with some degree of pleasurable anticipation to the establishment of a housekeeper service that would be of assistance to the women of Australia. I am concerned to notice that, although £15,000 was appropriated for the service, not even £1 was expended by way of grant. The Minister for Social Services informed me last year that he, too, hoped that the fund would enable a worthwhile service to be established. I forwarded to the Minister one application for a grant but, as far as

I am aware, the society has not yet received a reply. I protest strongly at the delay of this service. Can the Minister tell me whether anything has been done to establish the proposed housekeeper service?

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

– An amount of £15,000 was appropriated last year, but no money was distributed from it. Some difficulties were encountered in determining a proper basis for the distribution of the fund, and the Government had to decide whether it would deal directly with organizations, which was its first intention, or would allocate the fund amongst the States on an equitable basis. The problem has been the subject of discussion between the Commonwealth departments that are concerned, but the matter has not yet been resolved. However, I inform the honorable senator that it is on the point of being resolved on the basis of a distribution to the States. I hope that the money will be available for allocation in the immediate future.

Senator MURRAY (Tasmania) item of £1,000,000 for the Australian Shipping Board for expenditure under the Shipping Act 1949. I assume that the money is intended to finance the construction of new vessels for the Australian Shipping Board. I should like to know what procedure is followed by the Commonwealth in the sale of ships to private companies. My inquiry is prompted by the disposal of the vessels Balaar and Barrigun and an E class ship .Enmore, all of which were sold to interstate shipping companies. The Hunter River Steamship Company wanted to purchase an E class vessel for trading operations between Newcastle and Sydney and the north-west coast of Tasmania, but I have been informed that it was unable to effect a purchase because priority was given to a larger and more influential company. “Will the Minister for Shipping and Fuel tell me what system of priority is used in making n sale and to what account the purchase price is credited ?

Senator ASHLEY:
Minister for Shipping and Fuel · New South Wales · ALP

– The amount proposed to be appropriated for the Australian Shipping Board for 1949-50 is required to meet the administrative expenses and operational costs of Government-owned and chartered vessels. The appropriation for those purposes for 194S-49 was £1,388,000, and actual expenditure amounted to £1,925,71.8. The reduction of the estimate for the current year is due to anticipated increased earnings arising from the higher freight rates that were approved during the latter part of 194S-49. The provision in the Estimates for 1949-50 is made for the purpose of meeting losses that will be incurred by chartered and old vessels which, although unsuitable for coastal trade, are being used for the carriage of essential cargoes. Other factors which must be taken into consideration are the shortage of labour, restiveness in the industry, and increased labour costs. Senator Murray asked what procedure was followed in selling ships to private companies. The policy of the Government is that all ships operating in coastal waters shall have a life of only 25 years and must be built in Australia. In order to carry out that policy and, at the same time, to comply with constitutional requirements, the Government. is compelled to supply private companies with ships if they want ships. The honorable senator asked how priorities were determined in allocating ships for disposal. The Australian Shipping Board bears the responsibility of fixing priorities according to needs and the character of the service for which each vessel is to be used.

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania

– Division 174, relating to the Department of Social Services, contains an item dealing with the repatriation of age and invalid pensioners in special circumstances. Is the proposed appropriation of £500 intended to provide for the transfer of aged people from one State to another? Is any other provision made for the transport of such citizens who are in receipt of pensions?

Senator SHEEHAN:
Victoria

– I refer to the vocational training of invalid pensioners and unemployment and sickness beneficiaries. A sum of £500 was appropriated for this work in 1948- 49, but the actual expenditure amounted to £1,126. No financial provision is contained in the Estimates this year. Is this work to be financed from some other fund ? Will the Minister also state what progress is being made with the vocational training scheme for invalid pensioners and unemployment and sickness beneficiaries ?

Senator O’BYRNE:
Tasmania:

– The term “ old-age pensioner “ is customarily used in referring to an aged person in receipt of a pension. Many pensioners consider that the term is odious, particularly in view of the past history of the treatment of pensioners. At one time the expression was regarded as a stigma. It branded a pensioner as being poverty-stricken. Even now, when a pensioner meets with an accident or some other misfortune, the newspapers refer to him. as “ an old-age pensioner “. Many citizens who are in receipt of that benefit take exception to the general use of the term. Fortunately the means test has been ameliorated, and the pension is now regarded as a payment for services to the community for which the beneficiary has contributed during his productive years. Could a more suitable term be selected for the classification of such citizens ?

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– The point that has just been raised by Senator O’Byrne was given very careful consideration by the Government when the 1947 consolidation of our social services laws was effected. The word “ old “ was dropped from the description of that benefit then because the Government appreciated the force of what the honorable senator has pointed out. Such pensioners are’ now referred to as age pensioners.

Senator O’Byrne:

– It is the word “ pensioner “ that is obnoxious.

Senator McKENNA:

– There is a real difficulty in relation to the use of that word. I have never been completely happy about it, but, in drafting the revised social services legislation, we experienced considerable difficulty in referring to pensioners as beneficiaries and to the pension as a benefit. The application of the word “ benefit “ and its derivatives would have caused considerable awkwardness.

Senator Ward:

Judges take pensions, do they not?

Senator McKENNA:

– I thank the honorable senator for that thought. . Pensions are available to judges-

Senator O’SULLIVAN:

parliamentarians.

Senator McKENNA:

– That is true. They are honorable pensions earned as the result of honorable service. The term “ pensioner “ to-day, having regard to the fact that it frequently applies to former civil servants, judges and parliamentarians, has lost much of the element of odium that formerly was attached to it. Certainly there is no stigma about what is, in truth, a benefit to which people have certain entitlements. The liberalization of the means test has removed all suggestion of mendicancy, particularly when a married couple of eligible age and otherwise qualified can have a private income between them of £7 a week and still draw some portion of the age pension. Although great consideration was given to the matter, we could not find a term that would more happily describe what is being done than the word “ pension “, and it might be desirable to pre serve a distinction between what is. properly called’ “ superannuation “ and “ pension “. The honorable senator can assure those who are a little uneasy about the matter that the term “ pension*” hasno odium attached to it at all either in the mind of the Government or in its legislation.

The item “ Age and invalid pensioners - Repatriation under special circumstances “ covers pensioners who very often want to return to the United Kingdom, Scotland or Ireland but happen to be impecunious and in need of help. Such assistance is provided to them. Last year expenditure under that heading amounted to £189, but on this occasion we are providing a little more because difficulties connected with shipping intimate to us that a few elderly people want to go back home, perhaps, to die or to rejoin their relatives. They will be helped from this vote. “With regard to the item “Invalid pensioners and unemployment and sickness beneficiaries - vocational training “, Senator Sheehan very properly pointed out that the sum of only £500 was voted for that purpose last year and that no provision is being made in respect of that item this year. The explanation for that fact is, of course, that that was merely a scheme conducted by the Department of Social Services in steering beneficiaries to various educational establishments to fit them for work. That scheme has now been merged in the rehabilitation scheme which was introduced pursuant to a bill and1 made part of the Social Services Consolidation Act last year. In another part of the Estimates with which the committee has already dealt the honorable senator will find that under the National Welfare Fund the sum of £350,000 is being earmarked for purposes of the rehabilitation training scheme, and the administrative expenses in connexion with that scheme are also shown separately in the Estimates. I am happy to be able to inform the Senate that that scheme which was commenced with exservicemen suffering from non-war-caused disabilities was so successful that the Government has expanded it to deal with other classes of civilians. At the moment it is confined to beneficiaries of invalid, unemployment and sickness benefits. The scheme is being conducted at present in connexion with the Commonwealth Reconstruction Training Scheme by the Department of Post-war Reconstruction as agent for the Department of Social Services. The two schemes have been integrated not in their activities, .but in their administration, and, presently, there will be a division of activities and the Department of Social Services will again take up the scheme. In all States except one, rehabilitation centres have been set up, more properties are being purchased from day to day, plant and equipment are being provided for vocational training institutions, and’ as we obtain the necessary trained personnel, the staffs are being strengthened. The honorable senator can rest assured that the rehabilitation scheme provides a service not only of inestimable value to the recipients themselves in restoring their own confidence to them but also to the Treasury in that the refitting of a man or woman to work in the community saves him, or her, from becoming an applicant for social services benefits. No investment that the Commonwealth could make could show a higher return both in human values and in hard cash than the rehabilitation scheme. I repeat that the scheme is progressing well. In Tasmania, which is the only State where we have not our own institution, we use the facilities of the Red Cross and hospitals and other institutions to achieve the purposes that we achieve in our own institutions on the mainland.

Senator O’SULLIVAN:
Queensland

.- The sum of £29,500 is being provided in respect of the item “ Coal Strike Advertising “. Honorable senators will remember that those advertisements in effect, warned the Australian people and the trade unionists in particular that that attack on our economy was a Communist plot. Had the Government taken heed of the advice that the Opposition parties had given to it over the years that expenditure would not have been necessary and the misery, starvation and hardship caused by the strike would never have been suffered. I trust that the Government will pay a little more heed to our advice during the brief period that is now left to it to remain in office.

I refer the Minister to the item “ Banking Act 1947 - Legal Costs and Expenses “ for which the sum of £80,000 is being provided. Can the Minister indicate how far that expenditure will take those proceedings?. Does that sum represent the cost which the Government itself has paid to it9 own counsel, or must there be added to it whatever costs will be awarded in favour of the opponents of the Government in that litigation? What is likely to be the overall total cost of that rather tragic litigation?

Senator McKENNA:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · Tasmania · ALP

– The sum of £29,500 represents expenditure on advertisements in connexion with the coal strike. Senator O’sullivan must realize that in the difficult situation that confronted not merely the Government but also the country, it was vastly important that there be an informed public opinion. That was a very essential ingredient in dealing with the situation. Those responsible for that strike, the leaders of the Communist party, as the Government frankly acknowledges to the country, had propaganda available for the purpose of distorting the issue and confusing the minds of the miners themselves. Those advertisements and the hard work that was done by Government representatives on the coal-fields and in areas’ where the miners worked and congregated had a great deal to do with counteracting Communist propaganda. The Government’s handling of the matter in informing the people and, above all, the trade union movement how the strike was sponsored, and completely exposing the tactics of the Communists was one of the best ways of ensuring that their grip on the unions in this country will be broken. It brought about the termination of the coal strike and to-day the ordinary unionists who, previously, were too apathetic and* in some instances intimidated, are alive to the danger that their apathy has caused not only to themselves but also to their unions and to the economy of this country and, indeed, its safety from a defence point of view. There are healthy signs in the trade union movement. The Trade Union Congress that was held recently in Sydney provided clear evidence of the fact that the Communist control of a few key unions is on the way to be broken and smashed completely.

The Communist elements have been severely cast aside in elections held in several trade unions since the end of the coal strike. The special legislation passed by the Government, with the help of the Opposition, ensured that where there were irregularities and malpractices in connexion with the conduct of union elections the doors should be readily opened to enable the unions, if necessary at community expense, to purge themselves of these pests who had worked by fraud and subterfuge and preyed on the ordinary trade unionist in their positions of power and control in those organizations. I justify that item of cost without any hesitation at all. The very first declaration that the Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley) made in conjunction with Mr. McGirr, the Premier of New South Wales, struck the note that pervaded the whole strike. They announced that the principle of conciliation and arbitration was being defied and set at nought. The Government, in the first statement that it issued in conjunction with the Government of New South Wales, intimated that sooner or later the miners would have to go back to arbitration and that they had better do so sooner rather than later. I have no hesitation in paying a tribute to the Prime Minister and those members who were closely associated with him in those matters for their strong handling of the situation, and for tho fact that a situation that bristled with all the possibilities of bloodshed and revolution was handled not only long-headedly but also cool-headedly, and in a way that educated the trade union movement to the danger of Communist control. I am prepared to say that events that have happened during this year are revolutionary in trade union circles. They inspired the ordinary trade unionist to recognize that there was a danger, and awakened him to it. Those were the great services rendered by those advertisements. They led the ordinary trade unionist to make up his mind that he was going to do something about that danger. As a contribution to that end the expenditure on those advertisements could not have been incurred for a better purpose and the Government has every confidence that it will return real dividends for Australia.

Senator O’Sullivan also referred to the allocation of £S0,000 in respect of litigation arising out of the Government’s banking legislation. Although that matter primarily concerns the Minister representing the Treasurer I take leave to inform the honorable senator that that sum is merely an estimate of the costs that will be paid, it is thought and feared, to not only the Government’s own counsel but also counsel for the States that were represented and the various banking institutions. It will be remembered that the Privy Council in a very brief judgment intimated that it was adverse to the Commonwealth’s appeal. The Privy Council also intimated that the costs could be considered at a later stage. I am in no better position than is the honorable senator to intimate what is likely to happen. It may well be that the Privy Council has decided against the Government on section 92 in its application to the banking head of power. If that be so, the decision would be more than a substantial win for the Government’s opponents and the costs under normal expectations would follow upon the event and the parties opposed to the Government would be entitled to their costs. On the other hand it may be that some merely procedural matter is involved. I do not think that that is so, but if it be so there would be room for argument that the Government had won on the major issue and, therefore, should not be called upon to pay the costs of the opposing parties. The Government might even be in a position to ask for costs from the other side. Senator O’Sullivan will realize, of course, that when I put these things I am speaking not of probabilities but of possibilities. I fear, as I have already intimated, that the Privy Council’s rath decidendi will be solidly against the Government’s point of view. I hope that I shall be disappointed in that expectation, but time alone, through the Privy Council, will tell. We felt, however, that in making provision for a foreseeable contingent liability, wc could allow for one that could be reasonably expected. I join with the honorable senator in hoping that there will be no need to expend any portion of that sura: on the maintenance of the Commonwealth viewpoint. .

Senator MORROW:
Tasmania

. - Under the vote for the Prime Minister’s Department, the sum of £3,150 is provided for “ Ex-members of Parliament or their dependants - annual allowances “. I asb the Minister representing the Prime Minister who these people are %

Senator ASHLEY (New South Wale* - Minister for Shipping and Fuel) 1 11.2]. - 1 suggest that it is not desirable that the information sought by the honor- able senator should be made public. If the honorable senator is agreeable I shall make the list available to him personally.

Senator Morrow:

– Yes.

Senator RANKIN:
Queensland

– Last year provision was made under the vote for the Department of Health for the sum of £15,000 to be expended in grants to States and local governing authorities for the supply of prophylactic materials for immunization campaigns against clipthen a and whooping cought. This is a most valuable service to the community and I should like to know whether consideration has been given to the provision, in a similar way, of anti-tetanus serum should parents desire their children to be immunized against this distressing infection.

Senator McKENNA:
TasmaniaMinister for Health and Minister for Social Services · ALP

– The honorable senator will appreciate that the Commonwealth is not in the active field of medicine except in the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory. Anti-tetanus serum is available through the pharmaceutical benefits scheme upon the prescription of any doctor, but .1 realize that the honorable senator rather has in mind a tetanus immunization scheme to which anybody could resort should there be a danger of tetanus infection. However, I do not think that the incidence of - tetanus would justify mass immunization. I express that view as a purely personal opinion, and not as a medical opinion. I have not had any medical advice on that point, but I do not think that there Ls any call for the provision of tetanus prophylactics in the same way as there is a- need for whooping cough and diptheria prophylactics. I assure, the honorable senator that all over Australia, wherever branches of the Commonwealth Health Department are provided with refrigerators, ‘ there are adequate stocks of anti-tetanus serum to meet any contingency that the honorable senator may have in mind. As far as I know, tetanus is an emergency rather than an epidemic. The honorable senator may rest assured that ample supplies of antitetanus serum are readily available in every State.

Senator COOPER:
Leader of the Opposition · Queensland

.- In 1948-49 the sum of £3,537,426 was expended by the Department of Commerce and Agriculture on the wheat contract with New Zealand. As there is no corresponding vote for this year, I should like to know whether last year’s expenditure represented the final payment on the disastrous wheat agreement entered into by the VicePresident of the Executive Council (Mr. Scully), when he was Minister for Commerce and Agriculture.

Senator Ashley:

– Yes. That was the final payment.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Progress reported.

page 1737

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointments - Department of Health- A. P. Crawcour, C. E. Eddy, H. R. Peisley, S. O. M. Were.

Defence Act - Regulations - Statutory Bulee 1049, No. 76.

Defence (Transitional Provisions) ActNational Security (Rationing) Regulations - Orders - Nos. 163, 164.

Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1949, No. T7.

Senate adjourned at 11.8 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 20 October 1949, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1949/19491020_senate_18_205/>.