Senate
8 December 1939

15th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. Senate
  2. 15th Parliament
  3. 1939

The President (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.

page 2515

QUESTION

JEWISH SETTLEMENT SCHEME

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Have representations been made by the Government of Western Australia in support of Dr. Steenberg’s proposal for the establishment of a settlement for Jewish immigrants in the Kimberley district? If so, will the Government give full weight to such representations when this proposal is under consideration?

SenatorFOLL. - The honorable senator was good enough to forewarn me of this question. I have made inquiries in the department, and find that no application has been made on this subject to the Commonwealth Government. Two communications have been received from members of the Western Australian Legislative Council, but no representations have been made to us by the Government of that State. Such representations, if, and when, they are made, will be carefully considered.

page 2515

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY

Unemployment Relief

Senator AMOUR:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Minister for the Interior whether the Government intends to provide, as it did last year, a week’s work in cutting fire-breaks, in order to provide Christmas relief to the unemployed in the Australian Capital Territory ?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · QUEENSLAND · UAP

– Work for the relief of the unemployed in the Australian Capital Terr i toy is provided from the special allocation for the purpose. The Government does not intend to give a week’s work to unemployed who are not bona fide residents of the territory. I should not feel justified in using any of the money voted specifically for the purpose of helping unemployed residents of the territory to provide work for unemployed who may enter the territory merely to obtain a share of such work, as happened last year. The Commonwealth Government has just made available nearly £1,000,000 to the Government of New South Wales for the relief of the unemployed in that State.

Senator Amour:

– I am referring to unemployed residents of the territory.

Senator FOLL:

– We are doing our utmost to afford relief to them.

page 2515

QUESTION

ALIEN WATERSIDE WORKERS

Senator CAMERON:
VICTORIA

– Has the Minister representing the Attorney-General yet received an answer to the question which I asked on the 30th Novemberwith respect to alien subjects employed on the waterfront ?

Senator McLEAY:
Minister for Commerce · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– No.

Senator CAMERON:

– Will the Minister forward the answer to my address if it be not available before the Senate adjournment?

Senator McLeay:

– Yes.

page 2515

QUESTION

DEFENCE FORCES: POSTAL AND TELEPHONE CONCESSIONS

Senator BRAND:
VICTORIA

– I understand that the Government intends to reduce the rate of postage to members of the defence forces. . I ask the Minister representing the Postmaster-General whether the Government will also allow members of the defence forces to make telephone calls at half rates ?

Senator McBRIDE:
Minister without portfolio assisting the Minister for Commerce · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– I shall place the honorable senator’s request before the Postmaster-General.

page 2515

QUESTION

FLAX INDUSTRY

Senator HERBERT HAYS:
TASMANIA

– Have representations been made to the Minister for Commerce in connexion with the development of the flax-growing industry? If so, does the Government contemplate affording assistance to place the industry on a sound basis ?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– That matter is being considered. The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, under the direction of the Minister for Supply and Development, is carrying out experimental work with various varieties of seed. The Government does not propose to provide financial assistance to companies interested. These companies are making headway, and through the

Council for Scientific and Industrial Research we are doing all we can to assist them to develop the industry which we believe has great possibilities.

page 2516

QUESTION

CONSCRIPTIONFOR OVERSEAS SERVICE

Senator AYLETT:
TASMANIA

-Can the Leader of the Senate give a definite assurance that the Government will not introduce conscription for overseas military service without first obtaining the approval of the people by referendum?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– The Prime Minister has clearly stated that the policy of the Government is that there shall not be conscription for military service overseas.

page 2516

PRINTING COMMITTEE

Report No.7 of the Printing Commit tee brought up by Senator Leckie, and - by leave - adopted.

page 2516

TARIFF BOARD REPORTS

Senator McBRIDE laid on the table reports and recommendations of the Tariff Board on the following subjects : -

Canvas and duck other than cotton canvas and cotton duck - not waterproofed.

Cordage of the type used in the manufacture of pneumatic tyres; cord fabric being piece goods of the type used in the manufacture of pneumatic tyres.

Cotton Canvas and cotton duck, not waterproofed.

Cotton Piece goods for manufacture of men’s or boys’ outer clothing.

Curtains

Thermostatically-controlled cookers.

page 2516

QUESTION

PRODUCER GAS

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister representing the Department of Supply and Development whether it is a fact that the department has called for tenders for 400 producer-gas generators? If so, is the Government satisfied as to the specifications and efficiency of generators now on the market?

Senator FOLL:
UAP

– I shall have inquiries made into that matter. For the information of honorable senators, I mention that experiments are being conducted in the Australian Capital Territory with a truck which has been running on producer gas. That vehicle has already run 13,000 miles, and the tests so far have given entire satisfaction.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– In view of the fact that two or three very good makes of gas producers manufactured in Western Australia are being used on cars and trucks, will the Minister give an assurance that when tenders are called for generators firms in the western State will be given an opportunity to tender?

Senator FOLL:

– I shall bring that matter under the notice of the Acting Minister for Supply and Development immediately.

page 2516

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE ARBITRATOR

Senator CUNNINGHAM:

– In view of the congestion of claims before the Public Service Arbitrator, will the Attorney-General take action to expedite the hearings?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– I shall bring that matter under the notice of the AttorneyGeneral.

page 2516

LEAGUE OF NATIONS

Nineteenth Assembly: Reportof Australian Delegation

SenatorCOLLETT (Western Australia - Minister in charge of War Service Homes). - I lay on the table of the Senate the report of the Australian delegation to the Nineteenth Assembly of the League of Nations, which met at Geneva, from the 12th to the 30th September, 1938, and I move -

That the paper be printed.

The Commonwealth of Australia was represented at the Assembly by the Right Honorable S. M. Bruce, C.H., M.C. ; F. L. McDougall, Esq., C.M.G.; and Professor G. W. Paton, M.A., B.C.L. (delegates) ; and Miss Freda Bage, M.Sc, and I. Clunies Ross, Esq., D.V.Sc. (substitute delegates).

The most important item on the agenda was the question of the reform of the Covenant, and, during the discussion on this subject, in Plenary Session and in the Sixth Committee of the Assembly, the delegates from a large number of countries stated that their Governments would, in future, decide for themselves whether or not sanctions should be applied against any country, in regard to disputes which came before the League. The United Kingdom delegate declared that in future the United Kingdom Government would act in accordance with the following propositions: -

  1. No unconditional obligation exists to enforce sanctions under Article16 of the Covenant. Each particular case must be determined on its merits.
  2. There is an obligation on members of the League to consult together to consider whether in regard to any particular dispute the measures contemplated by Article 16 can be taken. (c)Each member of the League must be the judge of the extent to which its own position allows it to participate in such measures, and, in doing so, it will no doubt be influenced by the extent to which other members are prepared to take action.

No recommendation on the subject of the reform of the Covenant was made to the Assembly by the Sixth Committee, which merely reported to the Assembly the divergent views which had been expressed. After consideration of the committee’s report, the only decision arrived at by the Assembly was that the report should be communicated to all members of the League.

During the proceedings of the Second Committee of the Assembly, which deals with economic, financial and transit questions, the leader of the Australian delegation (Mr. Bruce) drew attention to the growing importance of the work of the League’s economic and financial organizations. He said that, in recent years, there had been a shift in emphasis from the international organization of business to the international organization of welfare, and, as the result, greater attention was being paid to such subjects as nutrition, standards of living and housing. The work of the League along economic and financial lines was greatly facilitated by the co-operation of the United States of America and other nations which were not members of the League. Mr. Bruce also referred to the beneficial economic effects for the world as a whole resulting from the completion of bilateral trade agreements, particularly those which, from the operation of the most-favoured-nation clause, bad the effect of lessening existing restrictions on world trade over a wider area than the territories of the two countries immediately concerned in the negotiation of such agreements.

Debate (on motion by Senator Collings) adjourned.

page 2517

QUESTION

HOTEL ACCOMMODATION AT DARWIN

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– Will the Minister for the Interior inform me whether or not it is a fact that there is a shortage of first-class residential accommodation in hotels at Darwin? Has the Minister lately refused to grant a licence for a new hotel at Darwin, and, if so, why?

SenatorFOLL. - There is definitely a shortage of good hotel accommodation in Darwin, but one new hotel is at present in course of construction, and its completion will relieve the congestion to a great degree. I hope that when the existing hotel licences next come up for renewal, the Administrator will take action to ensure that a considerable improvement is effected in the accommodation at those hotels. An application was received for a new licence, and it was approved by the old Licensing Board. It was then submitted to me for confirmation and I refused it. My reason was that the Licensing Board was then on the eve of going out of existence. . There had recently been introduced a completely new set of licensing regulations in the Northern Territory, and a licensing magistrate had been appointed to deal with applications for new licences and with the administration of the licensing law. I refused to grant the extra licence because the application was made in the dying hours of the old board and I considered that the new magistrate, whose duty would be to administer the licensing law, should have the right to say whether or not any new licence should be granted. I recommend to the applicant that he submit his application to the magistrate for further consideration.

page 2517

QUESTION

APPLE INDUSTRY

Senator AYLETT:

– In view of the fact that the Government has guaranteed to make the price of wheat up to 3s.10½d. a bushel should that amount not be realized, will the Minister for Commerce give consideration to making the price of apples up to 5s. a case should that amount not be realized ?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– The Commonwealth Government has not guaranteed the wheat farmer anything. It has made an advance against the wheat crop, and the farmers will get net realizations, plus the proceeds of the flour tax, and plus Commonwealth assistance, if the f.o.r. price does not exceed 3s. 4d. a bushel. The advance which the Commonwealth Government proposes to make to the apple and pear growers is, in the opinion of experts, comparable with the advance made to the wheat-growers.

page 2518

QUESTION

TRANSPORT WORKERS ACT

Senator KEANE:
VICTORIA

asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate, upon notice -

Will he inform the Senate of the Government’s intention in the matter of suspending the Transport Workers Act?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– This matter has been receiving consideration, but no decision has yet been arrived at.

page 2518

QUESTION

CENTRAL WOOL COMMITTEE

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

asked the Minister for Commerce, upon notice -

  1. Has the Minister considered the request made to him by the Country party members from Western Australia that a representative of wool-growers resident in Western Australia should be appointed to the Central Wool Committee?
  2. Is it a fact that Western Australian wool-growers’ interests are prejudiced in regard to wool appraisement centres and in other directions by the absence from the committee of any one with first-hand knowledge of Western Australian conditions?
  3. What decision has been arrived at in the matter?
Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– My colleague and I have given serious consideration to the strong representations made by Senator Johnston and other Western Australians in connexion with the wool advisory committee. We do not, however, propose to make any alteration during this season, but we shall have a close check kept on the work that is being done, and the honorable senator’s representations will be further considered during the recess.

page 2518

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

asked the Minister assisting the Minister for Commerce, upon notice -

  1. Has the attention of the Government been drawn to the cable from Chicago, published in the Canberra Times of the 7th December, stating that the price of wheat is now the highest for two years - 95 cents a bushel?
  2. In view of this high price for wheat abroad, and the unrest amongst Australian wheat-growers, will the Government guarantee a price of 3s.10½d. a bushel f.o.r. ports, for the coming harvest, as desired by the Australian Wheat-growers Federation ?
  3. If not, why not?
Senator McBRIDE:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Yes. 2 and 3. The Government’s policy in regard to financial assistance to the wheat industry has already been fully stated.

page 2518

PATENTS, TRADE MARKS, DESIGNS AND COPYRIGHT (WAR POWERS) BILL 1939

Message received from the House of Representatives, intimating that it had agreed to the amendments made by the Senate in this bill.

page 2518

APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND BUILDINGS) BILL 1939-40

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

In the Estimates tabled in September last, an amount of £6,195,000 was included for works and services payable from revenue. The amount in the revised Estimates is £3,534,000. The following is a summary of the proposed appropriations : -

The amount of the proposed appropriation, £3,534,000, does not include works constructed out of the Federal Aid Roads Grant to the States, which this year is estimated to amount to £4,100,000. It also excludes works made possible by the Commonwealth grant of £100,000 a year in aid of interest and. sinking fund on public works carried out by local authorities. The original proposals have been reduced at a number of points, the principal of which are: - Defence, Supply and Development, £1,891,000, most of which has been transferred to the Loan Estimates and part deferred to next year ; Civil Aviation, £119,000; and postal works, £707,000.

The amount of £1,036,000 is provided for “Departments and Services”. This is a reduction of £947,000 below the provision for last year, due in the main to the transfer of the defence works provision to the Loan Estimates. On the other hand, there have been increases over last year in this division of the Works Estimates, the principal of which are - Attorney-General’s Department, £124,000 for Patent Office, Canberra; Department of the Interior, £140,000 for completion of the War Memorial and other purposes, the contract for which was let some time ago; and Civil Aviation, £240,000, making the total works vote this year £486,000. In addition, £232,000 is available from the Trust Account. The balance consists of a schedule of buildings and works - including river Murray works - of the usual type necessary for housing, expanding departmental activities, lighthouses, repatriation hospitals, &c.

The provision for postal works shows a decrease of the revenue charges from £3,700,000 last year to £1,293,000 this year. It is to be remembered, however, that £2,000,000 is provided in the loan estimates for these works, whereas the whole amount was found from revenue in 1938-39. If the whole amount provided in revenue and loan this year be used, the expenditure for the year will be only about £400,000 below that of last year. An amount of £153,000 is provided for railways, as against £142,000 expended last year.

An increase has been provided for expenditure on works in the Territories.

That for the Northern Territory has increased by £150,000. ThiB increase is due principally to the heavy expenditure for water and electric supply in Darwin, and partly to other necessary works. The provision of these amenities has become essential on account of the great development of “Darwin, due to the importance o of its position in relation to defence and civil aviation. The provision for the Capital Territory has increased by £163,000. This is mostly due to the necessity for providing increased housing, there being at present some hundreds of unsatisfied applications for dwellings. An amount of £24,000 has also been included towards the cost of a new hospital which is urgently required.

In the House of Representatives yesterday the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior said that the Government had approved of the construction of a new hospital and that tenders would be called immediately - not before time either.

Any details required by honorable senators regarding specific works will be supplied by Ministers at the committee stage. Work in progress on the 30th June has been carried on by credits from Treasurer’s. Advance, except postal and defence works, a large part of which waa authorized by the Loan Act passed in September last.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– We do not propose to debate this measure. We understand the nature of it and any remarks of a general character that we have to make will be made on the measure which is to follow.

Question resolved -in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Schedule.

Senator WILSON:
South Australia

– Is the new building being erected for the Patents Branch of the Attorney-General’s Department to be paid for out of revenue ? Has it been the policy of the Government to transfer to loan funds the cost of works for defence purposes, and to pay out of revenue for work of a permanent nature, such as the patents office, which could quite properly be provided for out of loan funds?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– The Government has to readjust its finances as this expenditure occurs. The defence bill is piling up very quickly, and it is necessary to make loan arrangements to meet present expenditure. I shall bring the remarks of the honorable senator under the notice of the Government, but I find it difficult to enter into a full discussion at this stage regarding the merits of utilizing revenue rather than loan funds for defence purposes, and providing for permanent works out of loan.

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

– I notice that, in connexion with the expenditure under the River Murray Waters Act, each contracting government will make available the sum of £85,000. Can the Minister for the Interior indicate the details of the total expenditure provided for ?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– Under the agreement, the Commonwealth Government is required to contribute, equally with the State governments concerned, to the cost of works carried out under the. agreement. The programme submitted for the current financial year involves the expenditure of £340,000, each contracting government making available £85,000. The following are the details of the work to be done in the three States : -

Senator COURTICE:
Queensland

.- Can the Minister for the Interior indicate what the final expenditure is likely to be in connexion with the Australian War Memorial at Canberra? I regard it as an unfortunately misdirected expenditure.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

..- There will be a further liability in 1940-41 of £31,000, making a total expenditure of £281,500 for the whole of the work, but a large amount of the money expended comes out of a trust fund that has been created by private donations. A considerable amount of revenue is also earned by the memorial itself, through the sale of booklets, and also by the showing of the picture We of the Australian Imperial Force. A committee, consisting of Sir Harry Chauvel and others, controls the War Memorial, and administers the fund, but I should not like it to be thought that the disbursements wholly represent governmental expenditure.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- Has provision been made for the maintenance or renewal of the lift at the Federal Members’ Rooms in Melbourne? On several occasions representations on this matter have been made either to the officers in Melbourne or to the Minister for the Interior. The rooms are now located in a very old building of four stories. After 5 p.m., elderly charwomen have to climb up and down the stairs. The lift is frequently out of order and persons having business to transact at the rooms are compelled to use the stairs. The lift is often overhauled and this work is frequently done between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m.

Senator FOLL:
Ministerfor the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I regret that honorable senators have been put to inconvenience on account of this lift. When Senator Keane brought the matter under my notice three weeks ago’, I gave instructions that it should be investigated, and that the lift should be put in order. I shall again take the matter up with the department.

Senator ARTHUR:
New South Wales

– The accommodation provided in Sydney for federal members is insufficient. Members of both branches of the legislature, when interviewing electors, are crowded together at a table 3 feet by 2 feet. There should be a re-organization of the facilities available to us. Each of us should have a room to himself for the purpose of conducting interviews.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I do not think that it would be possible to meet the wish of the honorable, senator to the extent of making a room available to each member ; but, if any mutually agreeable re-adjustment of the present accommodation could be arranged, the disabilitycomplained of could be minimized. No additional accommodation is available in the building, and the only alternative would be to endeavour to secure accommodation elsewhere, which might not be so suitable as these rooms are. I was under the impression that the altered arrangements now provided quite satisfactory accommodation. I shall inquire if any re-arrangement could be satisfactorily effected or if it would be possible to obtain additional accommodation.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
“Western Australia

– - I refer the Minister to ‘the accommodation in Perth for federal members. Greater space with a little more privacy than is provided at the present time could be made available for interviewing electors. There is one room for interviewing purposes, and it is sometimes occupied by two or three members of the Senate and a similar number of members of the House of Representatives. It would be preferable to have a room set apart for. interviews.

Senator BROWN:
Queensland

– The Minister stated yesterday that £42,000 was being expended on the Governor-General’s residences. The vote for 1938-39 was £5,000 and the expenditure £16,074. The proposed vote for 1939-40 is £53,700 for buildings, works, sites, fittings and furniture. How much of that sum will be expended in Canberra ?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– The work is now practically completed, and the details of the expenditure are as follows : -

Alterations and additions at Yarralumla House account for £9,364.

Senator BROWN:

– Will the present vote complete the expenditure?

Senator FOLL:

– There is practically no further liability. There may be a few pounds more for goods ordered and not delivered.

I shall have investigations made concerning the complaint made by Senator Allan MacDonald, but I was under the impression that the Federal Members’ Rooms in Perth are superior to those in some of the other capital cities. I understand that a special room is set apart for the members of the Opposition party, and that last year the offices were completely refurnished.

Senator E B Johnston:

– An interview room, is needed.

Senator FOLL:

– I shall give that matter consideration.

Senator ARTHUR:
New South Wales

– Can the Minister (Senator Foll) explain whether under the item “ Naval construction “ any provision is made for payments to members of yacht clubs who constitute the volunteer coastal patrol ?

Senator Foll:

– No provision is made for any expenditure in that respect under this bill.

Senator ARTHUR:

– I should like complete and accurate information in connexion with these auxiliary services.

Senator Foll:

– The Assistant Minister for Commerce (/Senator McBride) explained yesterday, in answer to a question, that no expenditure is incurred by the Government in connexion with such services.

Senator ARTHUR:

– Am I to assume that the gentlemen who constitute the volunteer coastal patrol, who are designated commodore, vice-commodore and rear-commodore, are not entitled to such titles, and are masquerading under false pretences?

Senator Foll:

– The honorable senator is not entitled to say that they are masquerading under false pretences. They receive that title because in all yacht clubs the principal officers elected by the members are designated commodore, vice-commodore and rearcommodore.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order! As there is no vote in the schedule covering yacht clubs, the honorable senator will not be in order in pursuing that subject further.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- In connexion with the proposed vote for Commonwealth Railways, I direct the attention of the Minister (Senator Foll) to the fact that the train crews on the transcontinental railway are working 48 hours a week, whereas most Arbitration Court awards provide for a 44-hour week. These men have been awaiting an opportunity to bring their case before the Arbitration Court, but so far without success. I believe that if the Minister were to confer with the department the difficulty could be overcome.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– When this subject was raised a few days ago I communicated with the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner to see what could be done. Mr. Gahan, who has just completed an inspection of the railways under his control, arrives in Adelaide to-day, and I hope to see him early next week, when I shall, discuss the matter with him.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Western Australia

– Owing to the fact that coastal vessels are now travelling with all lights out, thus causing considerable inconvenience to passengers, many tourists and others are now travelling by transcontinental trains, which are overcrowded. As the Minister proposes to confer with the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, I should like him to ascertain the practicability of placing an extra train in service.’ I should also like to know what progress is being made in connexion with the air-conditioning of sleeping and lounge cars, because it is mostdesirable that the whole train should be air-conditioned. The work that has already been done at Port Augusta is highly commendable, again proving that the Australian workmen are second to none. Honorable senators are aware that in summer the journey between the eastern States and Western Australia may be very uncomfortable owing to the dust which enters the carriages and not only makes passengers short-tempered but also ruins their clothes. Airconditioning has been a boon to travellers on the transcontinental railway, especially those travelling first-class, and as second-class passenger’s do not enjoy the same comforts in that respect,airconditioning should be extended to second-class compartments. Secondclass passengers enjoy the benefits of airconditioning only when they are in the dining car, and if whole trains were airconditioned, the journey would become more popular. I am afraid that the Minister will not be able to influence the Western Australian Railways Department to improve that portion of the line which is under the control of the State authorities, but even on that section of the line there has been considerable improvement during the last twelve months. I trust that the Minister will impress upon Mr. Gahan the desirability of extending air-conditioning throughout the trains.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I shall bring under the notice of the Commissioner the points raised by Senator Allan MacDonald. I do not think that transcontinental trains will ever be really satisfactory until they are completely airconditioned. One of the difficulties is to obtain sufficient funds to enable the work to be done. A large amount of money has been expended in improving the conditions on the transcontinental line, but the Commonwealth railways are a losing proposition because they run through poor country, and consequently the revenue is not great. Owing to the reduced shipping services, the traffic on the line should improve. Another difficulty which confronts the department is that the transcontinental line has to compete with subsidized air services, and it does not seem right that the Commonwealth, which has expended large sums of money in order to shorten the time occupied on the journey, and has improved the service in other ways, should have to meet competition from subsidized air lines operating between Perth and Adelaide. The Commonwealth Railways Commissioner regards the competition as serious.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

.- The Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) may feel somewhat perturbed because the transcontinental line suffers as the result of competition from air-mail lines subsidized by the Commonwealth; but these air lines also competewith State railways. The competition experienced by the State authorities is as severe as that encountered by the Commonwealth. I trust that the Minister does not suggest that the subsidies paid by the Commonwealth to these air lines are to be reduced. The service provides a rapid means of transport for passengers, and enables mails to be carried between Perth and the eastern States much more expeditiously.

The CHAIRMAN:

- (Senator James McLachlan). - Order! The honorable senator will not be in order in discussing air-mail services under this proposed vote.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I trust that the services and subsidies now provided will not be reduced.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

. -I should like some information concerning the proposed expenditure of ?540,100 on architectural services, fittings and furniture, and ?273,500 on engineering services, for the Australian Capital Territory.

Senator FOLL (Queensland - Minister for the Interior [12.3]. - The expenditure for architectural services includes ?22,000 for a new hospital, about ?220,000 for cottages included in the normal cottage building programme, and ?80,000 for the erection of special cottages to house the personnel of the Royal Australian Air Force. Those are the principal items. There is also provision for improvements to cottages and garages, as well as improvements to the aerodrome and Telopea Park school, and additions to the transport garage workshops. The expenditure on engineering services will include roads, footpaths, water supply and other works associated with the general building construction programme.

SenatorAllanMacDonald. - I understand there has been some difficulty in connexion withthe construction of the Manton Dam at Darwin.

Senator FOLL:

– There was some trouble in connexion with that work, but we are negotiating with the contractors and are hopeful that it will soon be over.

Schedule agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2523

APPROPRIATION BILL 1939-40

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

First Reading

Motion (by Senator McBride) proposed -

That the bill be now read a first time.

Senator COLLINGS:
QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1937

– I want to avail myself of this opportunity to discuss briefly subjects that are not directly connected with any item in this bill, because this will be my last opportunity in this period of the session to speak generally on matters of national concern.

I direct attention to the fact that it is apparent that nothing is being done during this critical time to provide for the equally critical post-war period when we shall have to deal with problems that will arrive with the peace - conditions which, if not met properly, might well become the tragedy of peace. In Australia we are fortunate in being far removed from the scene of actual conflict. But even in Canberra, during the last few weeks, there has been an obvious lack of interest in the ordinary work of Parliament, because of the shadow of war and all its dreadful portents. There is no difference of opinion between the members of the respective parties in this Parliament as to the work which lies before this Government. We all realize the seriousness of the present world situation, and we all are agreed that, for the sake of those things which we value so much, our liberty and our freedom, we must win this war. But if, having won the war, we have made no provision for the problems that will follow it, we shall indeed be confronted with disaster. The tragedy of peace is approaching. Nothing is more certain than that, and I take this opportunity to refer to it for the purpose of trying to persuade this Government that, in conjunction with the immense task which it has in hand, it should also put its experts on the job - I do not mean outside experts, either - to consider what should be done in order to avert the tragedy of peace. If now we do not take adequate measures to ensure for our people all those things which we value, everything for which we are fighting in this war will have been lost. I am not alone in this thought. Bishop Burgmann, in a recent presidential address to the Legion of Christian Youth only a few weeks ago, said this -

Making all Allowances for war and its horror and difficulties, the most deadly enemies of national existence are always internal.

That is the considered view of a distinguished church leader, who cannot possibly be accused of partisanship.

Senator McBRIDE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– It is hardly a correct statement of the position.

Senator COLLINGS:

– I think there is a good deal of truth in it. There is no suggestion in it that the internal enemies to which he refers exist only in Australia. I honestly believe that Bishop Burgmann is right. I. believe that nearly every war is the outcome of pressure from within for a better standard of living. I could conceive of that being true, even of people living in countries under totalitarian rule.

Senator McBride:

– Surely the Leader of the Opposition does not think thatGreat Britain was forced into this war by internal pressure.

Senator COLLINGS:

– No. But, I believe that this war is the result of internal pressure in some other countries. It may well be the result of a social condition in which one section of the community is reasonably, and perhaps all too often extravagantly, prosperous, while another section is economically insecure; a condition, in short, in which the poor become poorer.

Senator Arthur:

– And the rich richer.

Senator COLLINGS:

– Yes, I think that is right. We have reason to believe that in this war the rich will become richer and the poor will become poorer.

Senator McBRIDE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– Does that remark apply to the people in Russia?

Senator COLLINGS:

– It applies to every country. Thatis one reason why I am urging that we should now so order our affairs as to avert the tragedy of pence. In the satisfaction of war needs there will be greatly increased employment, but there will surely come a time when defence expenditure will gradually taper off. Unless we now make plans to meet the difficulties that will then arise, unemployment will increase and we shall, I am afraid, usher in the tragedy of peace to which I have referred. I allow honorable senators to fill in the missing parts of the picture. From that increase of unemployment we shall experience every evil that attends in its train, such as we had in the financial depression of a few year3 ago. As my colleague Senator Brown said yesterday, we cannot stave off that condition merely by wishing or by some display of sentimentalism. We must get on the job now. While we are engaged in this attempt to bring the war to a victorious conclusion, we must bend our minds to the task of averting the subsequent disaster. If large numbers of people are unemployed and hungry, there will be widespread malnutrition in this country, birth control will be practised more extensively, and we shall have all the other evils which we deplore so much. There will be business insolvencies, suicides, and all the other tragic happenings that arise out of financial depression. I take this opportunity to direct attention to the difficulties ahead of us, so that when that time arrives, at least we shall be credited with having pointed to the danger and urged on the Government the need for preparations to meet it. Unless we are content to allow Fascism and Nazi-ism to , overrun this country after the war, to the total destruction of those things which we prize so much, we must make preparations along the lines I am suggesting. Action nowwill be in the nature of an insurance against the danger of such things happening, an insurance that when the war is over, that liberty and freedom which, in order to ensure success in this conflict, were temporarily taken from us will, after the war, be restored to us, perhaps in greater measure than we have enjoyed hitherto. In the Sunday Telegraph of the 26th November there appeared this statement -

Remember this:

We are determined to win the war.

But we must be just as determined not to lose the peace.

While we are fighting for democracy in Europe, we must not surrender it in Australia.

Democracy means much more than personal liberty, freedom of expression, the ballotbox . . .

It means the right of every person to a full, happy, and informed life.

It means wealth, work, security, food, housing, leisure.

It means a better world for your children, a still better world for theirs.

We must not forget all this, even though we are at war.

Mr. A. T. Brown, manager of Watters and Sons Proprietary Limited, seed merchants, of Melbourne, said -

  1. feel that I must disagree with the Prime Minister’s suggestion that the presenttime is premature to attempt to deal with problems that we know will arise after the war.

Another authority whom I shall quote is Archbishop Mannix, who cannot be accused of partisanship in this matter -

Australia was going along in the way it had gone for many years, and there seemed to be no prospect of solving the problemof unemployment.

Many things needed to be done, including the wiping out of slums, reclaiming and planting lands, cleaning up rivers, and many other essential works. If these works were put in hand, plenty of employment could be provided. The war might bo won but it should be their endeavour to see that peace was not lost in the community.

I do not suppose the Melbourne Herald would expect me to cite it as an authority on this subject, because it is not a friend of the Labour party. However, here are its comments on this matter in a condensed form -

It is reported that unions hope that before the Christmas vacation, the Full Arbitration Court will deal with their claims for an increase in the standard of the basic wage, and reduction of the time lag between the quarterly collection of cost of living figures and the subsequent operation of the basic wage. Based on cost of living figures for the quarter ended September, the Melbourne basic wage dropped1s. from the start of the first pay period of this month. Unions state that the drop at a time when commodity prices are rising is anomalous. An increase of as much as 5s. a week has been shown in the cost of living in some suburbs. The cost of purchasing 10 of more than 40 items included in the basic wage regimen has increased by 2s.2½d. for one week for a family of two adults and one child atThornbury. The increases include items such as - Tea, potatoes, cabbage, jam, bacon, raisins, condensed milk, eggs, canned fruit and meat- -

Those are the very foods which a family needs most -

Most workers covered by awards subject to half-yearly instead of quarterly adjustments will be even more adversely affected by the wage adjustment lag.

I wish now to quote three remedies offered in the same paper by Dr. G. L. Wood, Acting Dean of Commerce in the Melbourne University -

We must overcome the lag between the basic wage and the cost of living by speeding up the collection of statistics, accelerating the work of arbitration courts and wages boards, and anticipating current economic trends; and, in effect, making an advance in thebasic wage when a rise in the cost of living is known to be inevitable.

I might interpolate here that I am not suggesting that the present method of arriving at the basic wage represents the last word in human wisdom.

Senator Leckie:

– There is a lag the other way at times.

SenatorCOLLINGS. - Yes, at times; but generally when things are improving the worker is the last to get the benefit, whereas when the economic position is deteriorating, he is the first to suffer. That fact cannot be denied. Honorable senators opposite cannot laugh it off. Dr. Wood goes on -

Facing a period where there is little doubt that prices will rise steadily, we must avoid a situation where wages always lag behind. It is little consolation to the worker to be told that he is compensated by the hand-over of wages when prices begin to fall again.

That is a complete reply to Senator Leckie’s interjection -

It was understandable that economic upset and unrest in industry would be caused if the conditions of 1915-16 were reproduced.

That is the point which I am emphasizing - these conditions are certain to be reproduced -

Moreover, the hardships caused by the added pressure on the householdbudgetofwageearners was bound to produce political disturbances at a time when governments must exert every effort to avoid such trouble.

Anything which the Government can do along the lines I am suggesting will be merely a form of cheap insurance against the difficulties which are bound to arise and submerge this nation if we are not careful. Large numbers of our men and women, educated as they are in Australia to-day, are gradually but surely making up their minds that they will not go hungry, or suffer privation, or see their children die through malnutrition. neither will they continue to live in slums without protest. I do not want these conditions altered by a revolution of the kind suggested by that attitude, but I urge an intellectual revolution led by the Government in order that this problem may be solved before the worst consequences of it arise. Dr. “Wood continues -

The multiplicity of wage-fixing authorities tended to intensify the difficulties now becoming apparent.

Nobody underestimated the difficulties involved in reducing or eliminating the lag between wages and prices, but these could not he accepted as an excuse for letting the human problems in industry get out of hand and causing dislocation throughout the economy. He had the greatest sympathy with the wageearner and his wife, who felt the pinch, and the courts and wages boards, who found their freedom restricted by statistical or legal obstacles. The problem was one for more rapid co-ordination of effort and for developing a reflex notion in the wage-fixing mechanism. Great difficulties were involved in the three methods he had suggested, but the courts and boards must establish a more adequate organization to get first-hand indications of the effects of rising prices on the cost of living-

Particularly do I commend those remarks to the Government -

Since 1930 wage-earners had stood loyally by the arbitration system under difficult conditions. Governments would be wise to prevent a feeling growing that the system was operating unfairly.

I believe - perhaps to a greater degree I hope, because at times I am inclined to be afraid - that we shall avert the final tragedy of war. “With the same fervent hope I suggest to the Government that it now has a wonderful opportunity to plan ahead in order to ensure that we avert the tragedy of the ensuing peace.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Western Australia

– As we shall he given very little opportunity before the recess to discuss the Government’s proposal to despatch the 2nd Australian Imperial Force overseas, I propose to deal with that matter now. I heartily congratulate the Government on its decision, which is influenced by the desire that Australians shall again take their rightful place in the field alongside the forces of the Mother Country during the holocaust that is now threatening. Australia has already achieved a wonderful reputation for the military prowess of its soldiers. Therefore, at a time when the Empire is in need, we should not hesitate to live up to that record. Our military forces, if I remember rightly, had their genesis in Napoleonic years. Since that time the people of Australia have ever been anxious and willing to do their utmost for the defence of the Empire. In the distant period prior to Waterloo, no very great need existed for our forces to render that assistance. We needed only to be on the qui vive against raids and other disturbances. Nevertheless, in those days we possessed an effective defence force, which was available at any time to assist the Empire when the necessity arose. The Crimean War and the Indian Mutiny stimulated military interest in Australia. However, it was not until the Maori wars in 1870 that the first contingent left these shores to fight in the interests of the Empire. Fifteen years later when the great catastrophe at Khartoum occurred, accompanied by the diabolical murder of General Gordon, Australia again contributed men to help the Old Country. Then came the Boer War. Many of us were too young to participate in that campaign, but all of us recall the splendid assistance which Australia rendered to the Empire by sending 16,000 troops to South Africa, and the pride which stirred Australia when our soldiers, recruited and equipped in this country, played a gallant part in many of the outstanding battles and engagements in that war. In the last war Australia added further to its laurels by raising for the assistance of the Old Country a force of 413,000 men. It is in keeping with our traditions, therefore, that once again, in this time of emergency, Australia should make a demonstration of the solidarity of the Empire, and I applaud the decision of the Government to send a force to the assistance of the Mother Country. Australia is not the only dominion which can claim an excellent record. Every dominion and Crown colony in the Empire has played its part, and confounded foreign observers who so often delude themselves with the impression that the mighty British Empire is beginning to crumble. They have seen how each crisis in the history of the Empire, has, if it served no other purpose, led to a more effective consolidation and amalgamation of the peoples within the Empire. The foreign critic may fulminate as much as he likes with regard to the feelings of the Australian people about sending a force abroad, but, if he could look into the minds of the people of this nation, he would realize that there is no foundation whatever for any suggestion that our loyal attachment to the British Commonwealth is weakening.

The other dominions also played a great part during the last war by sending men and materials to the assistance of the Mother Country. When one realizes the numbers of men from distant parts of the Empire who participated in that conflict one is astounded. The figures are worth repeating. In addition to the 413,000 men raised by Australia, New Zealand, if I remember correctly, raised about 121,000 men and South Africa, where 60 per cent.’ of the population is not of Anglo-Saxon blood, sent more than 130,000. India recruited a fighting force of approximately 1,500,000. It can be seen, therefore, that the far-flung parts of the Empire made a substantial contribution to the victory secured by the Allies over the German forces.

It would be foolish for any one, especially a layman like myself, to forecast what forces will be required during thi3 war, but I am of the opinion .that not one division, but several, will be required from Australia. Even then, I do not think for a moment that we would be discharging Australia’s capacity to defend itself, because we would still have available ample reserves of man-power capable of adequately protecting this country, with, of course, assistance from the Old Country. I am of the opinion that this Government decided to send a force, not so much because of the material help it will give, although that will be important, as because it considered that Australia’s duty is to be in the war at the side of the Mother Country. “I believe that the bulk of the people of Australia support that view because of our bond with the Old Country, through common allegiance to the King, and through inheriting the same traditions and pride of race. These are things that are not likely to be cast aside or broken. But, apart from sentiment, I think it would be fatal if Australia did not send a force abroad to assist the Empire, which is so materially affected by the war. One of my principal reasons for saying that is the fact that so much depends upon the safe carriage of our wool, wheat, and other primary products which’ must be shipped overseas if Australia is to remain solvent. If for no other purpose, an expeditionary force should be sent as a contribution towards the protection of those Australian goods until they are safely landed at their destination. Aa an Australian, I would hang my head in shame if I thought that British ships manned by British seamen had to brave the hazards of enemy attack in order to come to this country and carry our products overseas without Australia lifting a finger t-o render assistance. This war crisis has clearly demonstrated to our people that in future they cannot remain content to grow primary produce and export it to the Old Country without doing something towards protecting that produce until it arrives at its destination. Surely our responsibility does not end when the appraisement of our wool clip has been made and our growers have received their cheques. So far we have been content to leave the responsibility on the shoulders of Great Britain, but that irresponsible attitude is not consistent with the self-respect of a proud and independent people. We should do something towards defending our own goods until they reach the ports for which they are destined. Let us consider for a moment what would be the position should Great Britain be defeated in this war, which God forbid. Do the Australian people think for a moment that under the hegemony of Nazi-ism they would be able to export goods to their overlords in Germany under such favorable conditions as now obtain? Surely no one can imagine that that would be the case. We would feel the “ rough end of the stick “ very early in our vassalage. Therefore, from considerations of loyalty, kinship, and material advantage, the Government is to be commended for its decision to send an expeditionary force overseas. It has been suggested by a responsible section of the people’s representatives in this Parliament - the Labour party - that no expeditionary force should be despatched because the international situation is 80 liquid and dangerous that all available men are required for the defence of Australia. In the first place, I do not think there is an argument that Labour can submit in support of that contention. Various authorities have been cited as advocating the retention in Australia of our soldiers for our own protection, and even my colleague, Senator Brand, has been cited as a military authority in this regard. I think, however, that the quotations from his remarks were grossly unfair to him. They were taken out of the context of his speech and used for a very definite purpose in a way which did not reflect much credit on the Leader of the Opposition. But apart altogether from that, we have other authorities in this country who no doubt were consulted before the decision to send troops overseas was reached, and with all due regard to my friend, Senator Brand, for whom I have the greatest respect, I would place the opinions of the Chief of the General Staff, Lieuten ant-General Squires, ahead of that of Senator Brand in this instance.

Senator Collings:

– But Senator Brand is a good Australian.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:

– It is a long time since Senator Brand and some of the other authorities quoted by honorable senators opposite were actively engaged in the military art. In LieutenantGeneral Squires we have one of the finest advisers it would be passible to obtain, and I am perfectly sure that the advice of that eminent soldier and of other leading military authorities, including Lieutenant-General Sir John Lavarack, who are still actively engaged in the forces, outweighs the opinion of some of the authorities cited by the Leader of the Opposition. I would even cite myWestern Australian colleague, Senator Collett, although he would be the first to admit that it is over twenty years since he took an active part in military operations.

Sitting suspended from 12.45to1.45 p.m.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD.The two distinguished military gentlemen whose names I have mentioned will not suggest for a moment that their knowledge of the present military situation is superior to the advice given to the Government by the Military Board, including the Chief of the General Staff.I suggest, with every respect to my colleague, that those now in authority are in a much better position to estimate the requirements not only of Australia’s defence, but also in the wider field of imperial defence in order to meet the exigences of present war conditions. I would even go further to show my high regard for Senator Brand. Ohe has only to converse with exmembers of the old “Western Australian 16th Battalion who served under him to know the high esteem in which he is held by the men in “Western Australia and in other parts of the Commonwealth. They have even nicknamed him “ Digger “, which is a tribute few generals receive from the rank and file. As a rule they are usually designated by a name less complimentary. I am aware that the same term was and is still applied to the Eight Honorable William Morris Hughes. If there is one Australian who distinguished himself and who deserves and receives the praise of returned men it is our wartime Prime Minister. No one can destroy the strong feeling of friendship which exists between diggers and “ Billy “ Hughes. The military knowledge, available to the Government, which influenced it in making its decision to send an expeditionary force overseas was the latest and best that could be obtained, and I believe that the Government was well advised in accepting it. The point which I understand was raised in the House of Representatives by the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) may have been the deciding factor. I refer to the succour to be sent to Australia from the Singapore base in the event of this country being invaded. For some time we in Australia have realized the difficulties in which Britain may be placed in the matter of extending naval assistance to distant dominions, if the Old Country were to be attacked either in European waters or on the land. There was great difficulty in estimating the degree to which we could depend upon receiving assistance from Singapore in the event of Australia being invaded. According to the debates in the House of Representatives, apparently that position has been clarified, and I feel more assured in my own mind that Britain now finds itself able to give some concrete undertaking as regards the disposition of naval vessels in the Pacific and in the northern waters adjacent to this continent. Incidentally, Australia has been lacking in not giving some support to the construction of thi Singapore naval base, which has been built at a cost of approxim ately £20,000,000, provided principally by the British taxpayers. There have been contributions from other sources, including the Dominion of New Zealand and the British possessions in the vicinity of Borneo and Malaya; but so far the Commonwealth has hotcontributed anything towards what may indeed be a bulwark in the defence of Australia. The Labour party was courageous to’ set up its military strategy against that& of experts, and to suggest that the circumstances do not allow us to send an expeditionary force ii broad.

Senator Cameron:

– Mr. Bruce expressed views similar to those which we expressed.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:

– I do not know who the military strategists of the Labour party are. I have never heard of them, and I do not think that any one else has. The main reason for the amendment moved by the leader of that party was paltry and flimsy. I do not know from whom honorable senators opposite have sought advice, but they lack a man capable of expressing a reliable opinion in respect of Australia’s military strategy. I see no reason at all why any one in Australia should hold the opinion that there is something, at present undisclosed, to preclude Australia from sending an expeditionary force to assist the Mother Country. When suggestions are made by the members of the Labour party that it would be fatal to Australia to send these men away people are inclined to think that “ where there is smoke there is fire”; they fear that there is some clanger which they cannot see. But I do not believe that our people will support the contention of the Labour party because the predominant sentiment in Australia is that, our duty is to be where -th(

Mother Country is endangered. That has been the policy since the Napoleonic; wars, and I trust that it will continue throughout the centuries to come.

When the bill providing . for the payment of a bounty on ships’ hulls was before this chamber, I stated as forcibly as I could that I thought the Government was very parsimonious in providing a paltry £50,000 to assist those willing to undertake tho construction of ships’ hulls in Australia. I am still of that opinion, despite the fact that the bill has been passed, but I am hopeful that the Minister will review this matter at an early date, and that some alteration will be made. I have in mind the fact that during the last war the mercantile marine of Great Britain consisted of approximately 3,500 vessels, and of that number no fewer than 1,100 were commandeered by the British Government and used as naval or military auxiliary vessels for war purposes. That made a huge inroad into the number of ships available . for ordinary mercantile duty. At, the commencement of the present war Great Britain had not more than 2,250 ships - a3 against 3,500 at the outbreak of the last war - so that the matter of ships is Vital. If our primary produce is to be exported with any degree of success, the Government should seriously consider the subject of ship construction, and endeavour to place it on a permanent basis. No one knows how long the war will last, and the sooner the problem of ship construction in Australia i.« seriously grappled with the better I shall be pleased. The Government has decided to provide £1,500,000 as a bounty to assist the construction of motor-car engines, which are not nearly so important to Australia as are ships, and it is amazing to find that only £50,000 is to be provided for ship construction. I trust that the Government will review this feature of its policy, particularly in view of the fact that our primary produce is the life-blood of the nation. Its free movement depends on adequate shipping and refrigerated space, because, however willing or sincere any Government may be in regard to the disposal of our surplus of primary production, there remains one main unalterable market - the Mother Country, Even “ an apple a day “, and the processing of the fruit for the production of fruit juices and jellies, will not alter the fact that by far the greater portion of our fruit would be disposed of to greater advantage in the Old Country if it could be transported to that market. The present policy of the Government will not assist ship construction.

I trust that the Assistant Minister for Commerce (Senator McBride) is giving serious consideration to the extension of the radio-beacon system on the Australian coast as an aid to the navigation of coastal and overseas vessels. The present service should be extended, because it is a great advance on the old system. It is a decided aid to navigation and, as such, a definite protection to life and property.

I now wish to refer to a marine survey of the waters on the north-west of Australia. It was intended to complete this survey, which is badly needed, as many of our charts of that and other parts of the Australian coast are obsolete. If it is at all possible, the Government should obtain from the Admiralty the services of a survey vessel to enable this important work to be carried out.

I have had occasion to ask the Minister representing the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) for information regarding the transfer of the military camp from Blackboy Hill to Northam. He replied in general terms, but I should like him to make further representations to the Minister for the Army with a view to having details of the expenditure supplied to me. I ask the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) to expedite the furnishing of information in connexion with the construction of Commonwealth buildings, and I impress upon him particularly the, need ‘ for the department to furnish contractors with quantity surveys. Sometimes buildings must, because of their urgency, be constructed with the least possible delay. Perhaps the time required for a proper survey cannot be allowed, and the department may be overworked at the time, but private quantity surveyors would give their services to the department at a reasonable fee, and I am sure that their work would be as efficient as that of departmental officers.

Senator ARTHUR:
New South Wales

– In discussing these Estimates one has to take a retrospective view of the general activities of the Government. For the first time during this debate and throughout” the year, a most important matter closely related to the defence of this country was touched upon when the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) submitted a bill dealing with the development of the Newnes shale deposits by Mr. Davis. I have held the opinion for a long time that definite influences are at work in this country to destroy the chance of flow oil being found here. The Sydney Morning Herald, of the 13th October last, published the following: -

page 2530

QUESTION

THE SEARCH FOR OIL

Minister’s Warning in Parliament.

The Minister for Mines, Mr. Vincent, in the Legislative Assembly yesterday, said that investors should exercise caution over a company which was searching for oil in New South Wales. Mr. Vincent, who was replying to Mr. Dickson, said that the company had confined its work to Victoria and South Australia. It had been claimed that’ a Mr. MaxSteinbuchel was one of America’s foremost geophysical experts and was connected with the company. He had inquiries made in America, but had been unable to find that Mr. Steinbuchel had the expert ability claimed. “ It is claimed “, Mr. Vincent added, “ that between Albury and Wagga there is a 99 per cent. chance of obtaining oil. A geophysical and geologicalreport by the Mines Department shows that the possibility of discovering oil there is extremely remote.”

I am pleased to note that Senator Foll stated yesterday that the Government intends to make a move in the direction of finding flow oil. According to the Sydney Sun, the Government has changed its policy with regard to the production of oil in Australia. As the Minister informs us that the Ministry now proposes to do everything possible to facilitate the discovery and development of oil-fields, one can only draw the inference that in the past it has not done so.

Senator ARTHUR:

– According to the Sydney Sun, of the 3rd December, all of the facts support my argument. Senator Foll stated-

There is no sound geological reason for saying that oil will notbe found in commercial quantities in Australia.

What have we been told in the past? Under the heading “ Search for Oil “ the Sydney Sun further remarked -

The Shell Oil Company announces that it expects to find petroleum deposits in commercial quantities, and that it would involve the expenditure in the State of Queensland of several hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Senator Foll declared most definitely yesterday that the large oil companies were the only people in Australia who could discover and develop flow oil in this country.

Senator McBride:

– He said that they were the most likely people to do it.

Senator ARTHUR:

– I accept that correction. I suggest that there has been as much chance of finding oil in Queensland, or in any other part of the Commonwealth, at any period in the last few years- as there is to-day, and I am definitely of the opinion that, had it not been for the persistency of Producers Oil Wells Supplies Limited, and an oil geologist named Steinbuchel, who has been imported from the United States of America, together with the support of the public, the oil position in Australia to-day would be different from what it is, and the Commonwealth would have remained, as it has been for the last twenty years, in the strong grip of the oil Caesars.

In the Sydney Daily Telegraph of the 25th November last, a statement was published under the heading “ Boom for all if oil is found here “. We must agree that, if oil were discovered in Australia, it would increase the population to possibly 20,000,000 or 30,000,000; yet, although the Government has o.n the Estimates a. carry-over of £96,000, it proposes to do nothing this year to facilitate the discovery of flow oil. The necessary brains for this work are to be found in Australia, hut the Government desires to do nothing in the matter. That statement in the Sydney Doily Telegraph to which 1 have “just” referred was made by the managing director of Texas Company (Australasia) Limited, Mr. von .Schilling. He said that, if a large scale oil strike were made in Australia, there would be room for all: It is at least comforting to know that the Australian public may at least be allowed to develop its own potential oil supplies which undoubtedly exist in many parts of this country.

I should fail in my duty as a loyal Australian if I did not make it clear to the people that any legitimate attempt to discover flow oil in Australia in the past has been nullified by the action of vested interests. The Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) speaking on the Petroleum Oil Search Bill in 1936 said-

I shall not be satisfied with this measure unless it contains provisions to protect the public against exploitation that will result if the oil resources of Australia are allowed to pass into foreign hands. It is felt that sinister influences have been at work, influences which are opposed to the best interests, of the public of Australia. This Parliament would be faithless to its trust if it were to allow the oil resources of the Commonwealth to become the plaything of objectionable overseas interests.

To my mind, that is exactly what is taking place.

Mr. Vincent, the Minister of Mines in New South Wales, issued a warning to the public that an American oil com.pany was operating in Australia. As a matter of fact, it is an Australian company representative of four of the States, and it is furnished with Australian capital. I went to the trouble to make inquiries concerning the gentleman who was operating in connexion with it. It was proposed that he should be deported from Australia. The immigration laws provide that prohibited immigrants may not remain in Australia beyond a. short period. A negro fighter or a powdered and painted female ‘stage performer, would have had no difficulty in getting an extension of time but, simply because the vested oil interests preferred not to find oil in Australia, the Government put every obstacle in the way of this engineer and it was with difficulty that he was retained to carry on his good work in Australia. Never was there- a more unwarranted attack than that made against him under privilege in the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales. There was never a more -fanatical attack than that, made- on this Australian company that has Australian shareholders and Australian capital.

Senator McBride:

– Following an example whir-h the honorable senator has ret in this chamber on several occasions.

Senator ARTHUR:

– This company is at least doing what the Government should have done. It is drilling for oil and endeavouring to find it. The discovery of oil would promote the prosperity of this glorious land to an enormous extent. Nine holes are now being drilled, but the Sydney Sun, the Sydney Daily Telegraph, and other newspapers, as well as the present Government and all the vested interests are working to prevent the discovery of oil.

Senator McBride:

– That is as inaccurate as most of the honorable senator’s statements.

Senator ARTHUR:

– Of the nine wells now being drilled, seven are being superintended by Mr. Max Steinbuchel, whom the Government tried to ship away from this country, so that oil would not be found here. At Portland, in Victoria, the company has drilled to a depth of 1,000 feet and oil is expected to be discovered at 2,700 feet; at Nelson, in Victoria, it has a bore down to 1,400 feet, and expects to find oil at 2,350 feet ; at Mount Gambier, in South Australia, a. bore is down 500 feet and oil is expected at 2,000 feet ; at Lake Boga, in Victoria, its bore is down 700 feet and it expects to find oil at 1,60.0 feet. No one in this country has accurate knowledge of the technical side of scout-boring for oil. The Government relies on its Oil Advisory Committee and on its experts, Dr. Woolnough and Dr. Wade. What do they know about oil ? Where did they get their knowledge ? They obtained it from books, in much the same manner as I do.

Senator McBride:

– That is not correct. But it is near enough for the honorable gentleman.

Senator ARTHUR:

– That is how I view the matter. Let us see what this Government is doing in the matter. In the Sydney Morning Herald of the 5th December, there appears the following statement from its Perth correspondent : -

No use is being made of Australian scientists for research work connected with war problems, according to Professor A. D. Ross, secretary and organizer in Australia for the British Institute ofPhysics.

In commenting to-day on the suggestion by Professor J. B. S. Haldane, Professor of Biometry at University College, London, that Great Britainwas not making proper use of her young scientific men for research in connexion with the fighting forces. Professor Ross said’ the position in Australia was even more serious.

Professional societies of chemists, engineers, and physicists in Australia had prepared registers with the object of assisting the Federal Government, in its provision for defence. The register of physicists was available to the Government at thu outbreak of the war, but no use seemed to have been made of it, nor had use been made of chemists for assistance in a consultative or research capacity, and there was no instance of an engineer having been asked to undertake any special investigation arising out of the problems of the war.

We have teams of highly-trained young research physicists in our universities, eager to work and with brains as good as those of men in any other country of the world “, said Professor Ross, “ but they are left to follow their normal work as if the war were a dream.

That correctly sums up the attitude of this Government, and it is in keeping with the attitude of New South Wales Ministers as indicated in evidence obtained by the petrol commission in 1935. Public challenges were made that the major oil companies in Australia had robbed the Commonwealth of £250,000,000 and that the account of petrol and oil sales showed that the sales of petrol in this country exceeded the quantity on which duty had been paid by about” 600,000,000 gallons. I wonder if Ministers and their supporters have forgotten what that commission said on this particular matter. Surely, if there was no truth in the statements made, some one would have answered them. I desire to inform the Senate and the agents of the oil combines which do not want flow oil to be produced in Australia, that the oil concessions of Bahrein Island, a British protectorate, were offered by a New Zealander, Major Frank Holmes - possibly Senator Collett, being a military man, has some knowledge of this gentleman - to the British Government; which, after consulting its geologists, declined to develop the properties. The Government was not interested, because the so-called expert geologists declared that there was no oil in that locality. Permission was then obtained to take the matter up with American interests. American geophysicists decided to drill, and at a depth of 2,000 feet they struck oil. That concession now ranks twelfth of the world’s largest oil-fields. Geologists were responsible for Great Britain losing a most valuable oil concession, and geologists in Australia are discouraging the Government from doing anything in this country. Has any geologist in Australia done anything worth while? The answer is “No “. The men wearing “ bowyangs “ do the real work and so often get results from projects that are turned down by the geologists.

Geologists may not agree with the selection of the sites now being drilled in Australia by Mr. Steinbuchel, but results are greatly in favour of his methods. During the first six months of this year over 2,000 wells were located in Texas by geophysical methods, and were drilled. Over 90 per cent. of these wells are now producers. In portions of Australia there extends a band of hard rock which the geologists persist in calling granite, and they prophesy that no oil will be found below it. This is the point which I would like to stress. A considerable amount of boring has been done in this country, but those who have been responsible for the work have gone down a certain distance and, on the advice of geologists, have not continued the boring, because the geologists declare that oil does not exist below this stratum of granite. These people desire to prevent the Producer Oil Wells Company from doing its work. The major oil companies are behind this move; they do not want flow oil to be discovered in Australia. Mr. Steinbuchel points out that in many parts of the United States of America this hard rock has been proved to be a micaceous sandstone. Two of the wells now being drilled under his supervision are down to that depth and are being continued through the micaceous sandstone. Mr. Steinbuchel believes that the formation is exactly like the Kettleman Hills dome in California, where 28 wells were drilled to the “hard streak” and the 29th well drilled through the “hard streak “ made 250,000 barrels a day - the largest producing well in the world. I challenge any one in Australia to produce credentials which are in any sense comparable with those held by Mr. Max Steinbuchel whom this Government desires to stop, simply because the major oil companies are opposed to him.

Senator McBride:

– The honorable senator is to be the judge, apparently.

Senator Sheehan:

– He is as competent as the Minister at all events.

Senator ARTHUR:

– I am to be the judge of what shall be my attitude, at all events, and I flatter myself that although I may not possess scientific knowledge I can bring a little common sense to bear on a subject that is. of vital importance to this country. In the United States of America it is regarded as an offence, punishable by sentence to a penitentiary, for any man to call himself an oil producer unless he has discovered, developed and produced oil-fields. Mr. Steinbuchel is the only man in Australia who has ever owned and sold millions of gallons of his own crude oil, discovered and developed by himself. Dr. Woolnough and Dr. Wade or any of the other flunkies who hang around for the favours of the major oil companies have never done anything like that.

Senator McBride:

– Yes.

Senator ARTHUR:

– If these geologists had really had sound knowledge of petrology some of the bores that have been put down in this country would have been driven below the micaceous sandstone.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– Mr. Steinbuchel has evidently convinced the honorable senator.

Senator ARTHUR:

– That is quite correct. I have not much faith in these fellows who spend hundreds, and perhaps thousands of pounds of public money riding in the skies looking for oil, as the Government’s geological advisers have been doing in the Northern Territory and elsewhere. They have not discovered a barrel of crude oil in any part of the world. This is an open challenge to all the failures who, in the last fifteen years, have deliberately assisted in preventing the discovery of flow oil in Australia.

With every country dependent for its existence on oil, and the defence of Australia so entirely conditioned by the good- will of foreign vested interests, it behoves every member of this Parliament to support to the limit any Australian company or individual with a proven record of seven wells being drilled in four States of the Commonwealth. These people are, at least, doing a national job. It must be obvious to every one, that the only companies that have any chance of getting oil are those that are drilling, just as only those who invest in a New South Wales lottery ticket have a chance of winning a prize.

As soon as I noted the trend of events in connexion with this matter I set to work to examine credentials. I have personally checked up Mr. Steinbuchels record as an oil producer. As recently as the 14th September last, I received a letter from the Oil and Gas Journal, published in Tulsa, Oklahoma, from which I take the following extract: -

Our records show that Mr. Max Steinbuchel 1ms been an active operator in Kansas, Oklahama. He is credited with the discovery of the Raymond Pool, Rice County, the United States of America, and has been an independent operator in other fields. The Witchita Eagle of the 25th July, 1939, ranks this as the largest oil-field ever developed in the 77 years history of the Kansas oil industry, and its potential output to-day is 18,000,000 gallons daily.

Also, Mr. Steinbuchel is responsible for the discovery of the Shure Pool in 1929, which opened western Kansas. This pool was opened at least 100 miles in advance of any other known oil wells or fields.

In 1931, he discovered and developed the Isern Pool.

In 1932-34, with other oil men, he was operating and interested in Oklahoma City fields. which wells were producing over 4.000.000 gallons daily.

In 1935-36, in East Texas, he was interested in wells producing over 2,000,000 gallons daily.

In 1938, he persisted in his theory that leases on the Elizabeth Martin farm, close to Witchita where 26 dry holes had been drilled bv the major oil companies, contained, oil. His faith iii this was the result of the persistent reactions shown on his geophysical instruments. Despite all the ridicule that was made of him. he drilled this well, which became a producer of 80,000 gallons daily of highgravity crude oil, from the first hole put down.

I have no doubt that honorable senators, should they desire to do so, can check these statements by reference to records in the Parliamentary Library. It would appear, therefore, that Mr. Vincent either must have been badly misinformed or was acting as an emissary of certain oil interests which place pounds, shillings and pence before the best interests of Australia, and have been doing their utmost to prevent our oil resources from being developed. Honorable senators will readily realize the. catastrophe which would follow any success by the enemy in cutting off our supplies of oil from overseas. Despite the magnificent record of Mr. Steinbuchel as an oil-producer, and his earnestness to discover oil in Australia, backed up by investments representative of capital in four of the States, he has been obliged to move heaven and ea:th to secure an extension of his permit to stay in this country. His permit has been extended for a further six months, that is, until the 30th June next. The Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) came out boldly in championship of the major oil companies in this country. In view of the Government’s treatment of so eminent an expert as Mr. Steinbuchel, one wonders whether the Government is acting in collusion with the oil companies.

The outstanding feature of the various defence programmes announced by this Government- during the last two years, and since the outbreak of the war, has been the procrastination of the Government in implementing those programmes. The Government announced through the press and the radio its intention to establish arsenals for the manufacture of guns, planes and munitions. The first step it took was in connexion with the manufacture of the Bren gun. It promised that production would commence in 1941. At a time when employees in the tool room at Lithgow were on short time it decided to have the necessary dies and gauges made in England. In addition, the building of the Bren gun factory was treated as a relief work, and not as an urgent undertaking. Press criticism of this lackadaisical attitude in January spurred the Government to increase the staff at Lithgow. As late as yesterday it was reported in the Sydney Daily Telegraph that the Government had spent £18,000 in purchasing obsolete tools. That report reads : -

Thousands of pounds worth of useless dies, jigs, and fittings have been manufactured for the Defence Department on out-of-date drawings.

This is disclosed in the annual report of the Commonwealth Auditor-General (Mr. R. Abercrombie ) , issued yesterday.

According to the report, expenditure of . £31,127 on dies, jigs, and fixtures was approved in April by the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street).

Of this the department paid to the manufacturer £18,641 during April and September. The report says:- “ On oral instructions manufacture of the articles was commenced by the Ford Motor Co. in April.

Written instructions were issued to the company on 9th May.

Production Ceases

It was agreed that the company should receive as profit a margin of 4 per cent. over cost.

Production practically ceased in August.

Departmental correspondence shows that many of the dies, jigs, and fixtures manufactured are suitable for the purpose contemplated.

New designs were in the department on 21st July.

May becostly.

The mistake, which may be a costly one, apparently occurred because efforts were made to hasten the commencement of production, and to misunderstandings between the authorities responsible for placing the order.”

Mr. Abercrombie states that no provision has been made for the Auditor-General to examine records of contractors supplying defence requirements.

Could anything more slipshod be imagined ?

Senator Allan MacDonald said that our man power was sufficient to enable us to send contingent after contingent overseas. In reply to the honorable senator, I quote the following paragraph which was published in The Times, London, of the 8th October : -

The Dominions, especially Australia and New Zealand, must make certain that they will not be attacked before denuding themselves of trained defenders.

This realization must remain the keystone of Australia’s defence policy.

It is significant that when the munitions area was being established, titled bagmen could walk into the Defence Department and pick up a contract for shell lathes valued at over ?1,000,000, whilst Australian firms, which had made lathes for over 30 years, were not allowed to tender, the excuse given for their exclusion being that these lathes were required urgently. Sir Harry Smith boasted of his achievement in securing this contract. The establishment of the munitions area in Victoria presented the Government with an opportunity to locate the major portion of its defence manufacturing activities in that State. This decision was hailed with joy by the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited, General MotorsHoldens Limited and the international finance firm of J. B. Were & Son, along with sundry political “ con “ men who are to he found in numbers in and about Collins-street, Melbourne. The Government entirely overlooked the claims of New South Wales in regard to the location of those activities. Having regard to the steel and non-ferrous industries in that States, thousands of pounds in re-handling charges would have been saved had the munitions area been located near to them. Furthermore, the Government also ignored the fact that the northeast coast is the most vital part of our continent. As the result of its blunder in establishing this enterprise in Victoria, munitions will have to be transported hundreds of miles by rail through country over which only a single track is available. As a sop to New South Wales however, the Government decided to establish annexes at a cost of over ?1,000,000, including plant which is to be imported. The Government also bungled in limiting the construction of anti-aircraft guns to the old 3-inch pattern. It was not until adverse comments appeared in the press concerning the shortage of guns of the latest type that the Defence Department undertook the manufacture of anti-aircraft guns to deal with low-flying dive bombers with ceilings of from 10,000 to 18,000 feet. Officialdom was prepared to pin its faith to the Bren machine gun or the Vickers heavy machine gun.

I conclude by repeating that influences are at work to discourage the discovery of oil in this country. At first I was not inclined to accept such a suggestion seriously, but as the result of inquiries which I have made in this matter I am convinced that such influences are at work. I do not know to what degree officialdom is behind such pressure, but there can be no doubt that vested interests are operating obstructively. When attempts were made to discover oil in Queensland fifteen years ago the bores were sabotaged. During the night pieces of solid steel were dropped down the bores. I urge the Government to do everything in its power, irrespective of any pressure which might be brought to bear by vested interests, to promote the development of our oil resources.

Senator BRAND:
Victoria

.- I did not intend to take part in this debate, but Senator Allan MacDonald’s remarks have brought me to my feet. Neither Senator Collett nor I pose as a military expert, but, with a background of lifelong experience and study, we can express a balanced opinion on the defence of Australia, because of our continued interest in the subject. Certainly the two senior generals mentioned by the honorable senator are more up to date in such matters as technical equipment and modern training, but what have those matters to do with the .question of whether or not a force shall be despatched overseas? That is high policy upon which the Military Board has to take its orders from the Government of the day. Having had a seat on the Military Board from 1926 to 1933 I know what I am talking about. Since my retirement from the Army I have had an opportunity of viewing defence questions from a much broader angle. Senator Allan MacDonald could not have been in ‘this chamber last Friday when I referred to the Government’s decision to despatch a force overseas. I suggest that he should read page 1,944 of Hansard. The opinion expressed was in the light of up-to-date information from the British Government. I disagree with him that division after division should be sent overseas. One division, or perhaps two, will be quite sufficient as an Empire gesture. To be logical, Senator Allan MacDonald should vote against the appropriation of any money for the local defence of the Commonwealth. The Empire’s defence experts, men whose duty it is to keep their fingers on the pulse of possible national repercussions in the event of war, advised the Commonwealth Government, through the British Government, shortly after the outbreak of war, that Australia’s best contribution would be to look after itself. A week ago that advice was slightly modified, but not to the extent of suggesting that Australia should he denuded of all its virile manhood.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
New South Wales

– In the short time which I shall have to speak to this measure I shall direct my remarks particularly to one aspect of this Government’s policy. In speeches, and by means of interjection, honorable senators opposite have consistently alleged incapacity on the part of the Labour party to undertake the government of this country. Such statements are entirely without foundation, and I venture to suggest that should the Labour party be given an oppor tunity to occupy the treasury bench the people of Aus tralia would never have reason to regret it. The war has now been in progress three months; let us review the position and find out just exactly what has been done by this Government to bring about the successful prosecution of the waT. A tremendous responsibility rests upon the shoulders of honorable senators opposite to see that the people of Australia are not misled in any way, and that the very best that can happen to this country shall happen. If that be done, and true leadership be shown by ‘those holding the reins of government, the people of Australia will be convinced of the ability of the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) and his Cabinet to hold office in this time of emergency. However, after personally examining the developments in Australia during the past three months, my considered opinion is that this Government has definitely fallen down on its job. Comparing 1939 with 1914 we find that after the last war had been in progress for three months, Australia’s military forces were properly clothed, equipped and trained, and some of the troops were actually on their way to England.

Senator Dein:

– But the honorable senator’s party does not believe in sending troops overseas.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– That is quite true. We do not believe in any soldier leaving these shores ; I am merely instancing what was done at the outbreak of the last war in order to demonstrate the incapacity of this Government even to clothe the soldiers and give them proper leadership. It is a sorry fact, indeed, that these men are forced in this time of emergency to look to such a Government to give them a lead. It seems to me that this Government believes, as the Stuart kings did, that it governs by divine right. This belief in “ divine right “ has been amply demonstrated during the past six months. Government senators from New South Wales, particularly Senator Dein, have not yet ceased to praise to the skies the achievements of the former Premier of that State, Mr. Stevens. Apparently Senator Dein looks to Mr. Stevens as his guiding star, because in almost his every speech the honorable senator has made eulogistic references to the work of Mr. Stevens in State politics. But we find that the gentleman, whom Senator Dein would have us believe to be one of the greatest statesmen this country has ever produced, was nothing but a budget faker. He presented to the State Parliament a budget showing a surplus on the year’s operations, whereas there actually was’ a deficit of £3,750,000. So much for the “divine right”, in which this Government apparently solemnly believes. It is a belief for which there is no justification, and on which the people of this country are anxiously awaiting an opportunity to express an opinion. Just as one Stuart king lost his head at the deft hands of the executioner, so will the present Government lose its power at the deft hands of an indignant electorate.

Originally this Government . set out to recruit for overseas service one division - merrely20,000 men - but was that number forthcoming? No; the recruitment was 2,600 short of the desired total. That cannot be denied by honorable senators opposite, and it is evidence of the lack of confidence which the people generally have in the ability of this Government, and its promises. If one division cannot be filled by voluntary recruiting; surely that is a striking condemnation of the Government by those who, under other circumstances, would enlist.

I shall touch now for a moment on the subject of equipment. Take, for instance, the Bren gun, to which Senator Arthur referred. We have heard talk of this gun for the past four years, but still not one solitary weapon has been produced in Australia. The virtues of the gun and the intention of the Government to embark upon its manufacture as early as possible have been widely publicized. Stress has been laid on the necessity to modernize our military organization, and the introduction of the Bren gun has been made a feature of that policy. As Senator Arthur pointed out, a factory for the construction of the Bren gun was built by relief work at Lithgow. That in itself was disgraceful. But still not one solitary Bren gun has been produced. According to reports, the gun will be ready in 1941, but at the present rate of delay it seems that this allegedly essential weapon might possibly be ready for the next war in 1951. Let us compare for a moment the efforts of the Government, in connexion with the manufacture of the Bren gun, with the magnificent effort of private enterprise in the manufacture of Wirraway aircraft. Two and a half years ago there was not even a building at Fishermen’s Bend, yet today aircraft and equipment valued at £300.000 have already been produced. The operation of the Bren gun factory at Lithgow has been stultified and severely hampered by the activities of the present Government, and so far not one gun has been produced. 1 recall also that recently Australianmade tanks built in Melbourne were sent to Sydney to reinforce the tank corps there. They took four days to do the trip by road - the “lightning war”! In regard to uniforms and personal equipment, this Government has let down badly the people of Australia and the troops. It was disgraceful to see men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, particularly in Melbourne recently, in oddments of military clothing. Some of them had only military boots, whilst others had only hats or greatcoats. That is most unfair treatment for those men who have so courageously offered their services’ in the defence of the Empire. I draw attention to a report appearing in the Sydney Sun late in November -

Hundreds of men of the 1st Infantry Bri gade of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force in camp at Ingleburn are without even one pair of socks. Hundreds have only one singlet. Handkerchiefs are luxuries.

Without proper uniforms, the menhave to wear heavy military overcoats - even on the hottest days -when they come into Sydney, to hide the motley collection of clothing they wear.

Making these statements to-day, Mr. Eric Wren, a captain in the 1st Brigade of the old Australian Imperial Force, said that the manner in which the menwere clothed was a disgrace to Australia. “ It seems that the Defence Department has fallen down badly on its job”, he added. “ It is three months since the war started. But in 1914 we were on our way abroad trained and fully equipped by October 20.

Another example of the Government’s inability to clothe the men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, particularly at Ingleburn, is the fact that the Government is appealing to the Lord Mayor’s Fund in Sydney to provide socks for the soldiers.

Senator Dein:

– The Government is not appealing to the fund.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; ALP (N-C) 1941-42

– If that is so, then the position is still worse because the Government is apparently content to let the troops do without socks. That shows that something is very wrong in the administration of these matters, and when there is a fault in administration, in 99 cases out of 100 the fault lies with the head of the organization and not with the lower officers. If a business is efficient, that efficiency is usually due to the ability of its head. That is true also of military boards. If there is a deficiency of clothing, I blame not the lower-paid officials, but the head of the administration, because responsibility for such things can always be sheeted home to the man at the top. Senator Arthur mentioned some of the costly mistakes made in the Defence Department, including those revealed by the Auditor-General, who in his report stated that £18,641 has been paid for tools which are quite obsolete. That is not the only blunder that has been made, and it will not be long before others caused by obsolete blueprints will be disclosed. Senator Foil inferred that this Government has the divine right to control the affairs of this country; but its administration, particularly in defence matters, has been mostunsatisfactory, and the people are beginning to wonder how much money is actually being wasted. Even in the matter of soldiers’ pay and the allowances for children, it has made a lamentable display of inefficiency. In the first place, the Government decided to pay4½d. a day for each child ; but later that amount was increased to 6d., and subsequently to 1s., and if further pressure is exerted I believe that eventually1s. 6d. will be paid. As Senator Amour has said, if the New South Wales Government can pay 10s. a week for dependent children, surely this Government should provide more than the niggardly amount of 7s. a week. If the Government, instead of trying to hide the defects in its administration, admitted that it has made mistakes and that it is doing its best, it would receive more sympathetic treatment from the members of the Opposition. The Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) claims that this Government is prosecuting the war in a highly efficient manner; but the information which has been disclosed in the press and through other channels shows clearly that serious blunders have been made. When the next election is held and the public are told what has actually occurred, the Labour party will be asked to control the nation’s affairs as it was in 1914, and I am sure that it will he able to leave behind it a much better record than this Government possibly can.

Senator ABBOTT:
New South Wales

– I take what will probably be my last opportunity during this period of the session to support strongly the admirable suggestion made by Senator Allan MacDonald that the Government would be well advised to devote the large amount proposed to be paid in the form of a bounty on the manufacture of motor car engines to the construction of ships, which are more vital to this country, particularly at the present juncture, than motor car engines. Some time ago, when speaking in this chamber on the payment of the bounty on motor car radiators, I said that such a bounty was premature as I did. not regard the market for motor cars in Australia as sufficiently large to warrant the construction of complete cars. Although motor transport is used extensively by primary producers and others engaged in industry, and in fact by all sections of the community, I do not think that under the policy which the Government has adopted motor cars will be made available to the Australian users at a cheaper price than they are to-day. The Government may believe that owing to transport difficulties Australia may be short of motor cars; but there are at present sufficient motor cars, although pome of them may be old, to meet requirements until the position improves. The Tariff Board stronglyconflemned the proposal. It would appear that the Government is taking advantage of the circumstances to foist the manufacture of motor cars upon the Australian taxpayers.

SenatorCollings. - A start was made some time ago.

Senator ABBOTT:

– -Yes, it is being done gradually, andthe ultimate intenrion is to provide for the manufacture of a complete car in Australia. I was surprised to learn that a member of the Labour party in the House of Representatives stated that some witnesses before the Tariff Board, who opposed the construction of motor car engines in Australia, told deliberate untruths. He also said that such witnesses were acting under instructions. What right has any politician to say that witnesses testifying before the Tariff Board on oath deliberately make an untrue statement? What right has any honorable member to impugn the honesty of a man who has taken a solemn oath to tell the truth ? I earnestly trust that the Government will reconsider its decision in this respect and refrain from spending large sums of money on promoting the construction of motor-car engines. I express the hope that honorable senators on both sides of the chamber will have a happy Christmas and that in the New Year they will be prosperous.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

– Earlier in this period of the session, Ministers read statements in this chamber and in the House of Representatives setting out the activities of various governmental departments, and as no other opportunity will be afforded, I propose to criticize some of the statements contained in the documents then tabled. I wish to refer more particularly to the Department of Supply and Development. As was stated by the Minister, the information supplied was brief and did not contain much detail. In one of the statements submitted, reference was made to the large orders which have been placed locally and abroad for machine tools, and I recall the Assistant Minister for Commerce (Senator McBride) saying that tools, jigs and gauges could not be manufactured in government factories owing to the absence of the necessary machinery.

Senator McBride:

– I spoke of some tools.

Senator ASHLEY:

– The Assistant Minister made the statement I have attributed to him, but it was corrected later by the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) who said that the answer given by Senator MoBride was based on misunderstanding. On previous occasions, I have referred to the manufacture of tools, jigs and gauges and directed attention to the fact that many of the components manufactured by private enterprise were not up to standard. Senator McBride said that that was not so. but my statement is substantiated by theAuditorGeneral.

Senator McBride:

– The AuditorGeneral did not say that they were faulty, but that the designs were obsolete.

Senator ASHLEY:

– That is due to a lack of proper supervision. If parts are made from obsolete designs they cannot be expected to be used in modern weapons. That is the fault of the department.

Senator McBride:

– It was due to a wrong decision.

Senator ASHLEY:

– The most essential requirement in any factory is accurate draftsmanship and designing. The Government cannot place the responsibility in this respect on the shoulders of any one else.

Senator McBride:

– But it does.

Senator ASHLEY:

– The Government has appointed officials to conduct investigations of methods and costs, and when further inquiries are made it will be found that this is not the only instance in which faulty components have been made. Last year a deputation waited on the then Minister for Defence (Mr. Thorby). At that time it was suggested that the tool-makers in the Small Arms Factory should be engaged in the manufacture of some of the parts required for the Bren gun. That advice was not acted upon, with the result that to-day, although the Prime Minister had said that the Bren gun would be ready within twelve months, there is no likelihood of that occurring, because of the shortage of gauges, tools, jigs, &c. Members of the Opposition take no exception to the huge amount of money that has been expended in preparations for the defence of this country, but we expect full value for every £1 expended. There must be lack of supervision in regard to this matter, or the AuditorGeneral would not have called attention to it. Reference has been made to the fact that 2,000 additional employees have been engaged in the manufacture of arms and munitions since the 3rd September last, bringing the total number of employees to 8,000, with a consequent increase of the weekly wages bill from £24,000 to £36,000. ‘ Every honorable senator will note with pleasure the increased employment, but will regret the circumstances that make the extra employment possible.

I again draw attention to the continued preponderance of defence expenditure allotted to Victoria. According to the Minister, the number of persons employed in munitions and small arms factories in Victoria is 7,000, whilst in New South Wales the number is under 1,000. The sum expended on wages in Victoria annually is £1,638,000, as against £234,000 in New South’ Wales. No member of the Opposition suggests that the defence expenditure should be dis.tributed equally between the various States, but the Government should give due recognition to their respective claims.

Senator Herbert Hays:

– The munitions factories in Victoria have been in operation there for many years.

Senator ASHLEY:

– Quite so, but what justification is there for concentrating them in one State? Where it is economically possible, and when the circumstances justify it, each State should receive a share of the work of supplying the requirements of the Defence Department. The value of the New South Wales output -of iron and steel last year was £22,350,000, as against £3,000,000 in Victoria. New South Wales produced 90 per cent, of the coal of the Commonwealth, almost 100 per cent, of the lead and silver lead, 100 per cent, of the manganese, and 70 per cent, of the zinc concentrates, whilst almost 100 per cent, of the silver lead is processed in that State. It must be admitted that scant consideration has been given to the economic ability of New South Wales, which contains about 60 per cent, of the population of the Commonwealth, to manufacture successfully the requirements of the Defence Department. The Minister told us that factories are still being built, that the authorizations on hand for munitions exceeded in value £6,000,000, and that others expected would bring the total to £8,000,000 or more.

As the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) remarked to-day, Australia is faced with, not only the tragedy of war, but also the tragedy of peace. We must have a long-range plan. For every one person employed in New South Wales in the manufacture of defence requirements, seven are employed in Victoria, and there is practically no such manufacture in the other States.. As the erection of further factories in Victoria is proposed, any prosperity due to this defence expenditure will be concentrated in Victoria. The Opposition desires peace to bc established as soon as possible, but when the Government is establishing new factories it should evolve a long-range plan, so that the tragedy experienced after the last war will be averted on this occasion. Same time after the armistice was signed, 1,000 employees in New South Wales were thrown on the industrial scrap-heap. These men had been working for three or four years in factories, and had reason to believe that they had economic security. Some of them had purchased homes, or were in course of paying for. them, hut they had to leave their districts and seek employment elsewhere. Every government in Australia will be confronted with this difficulty when peace is declared. Many of the employees now manufacturing implements of destruction will not he required when peace is happily secured, and some plan should be devised now to enable them to switch over to industries in which they can he absorbed in the manufacture of goods that will be required by the people in times of peace.

The Minister stated that an Advisory Committee had been appointed. He continued - lt was realized some months ago that war conditions would create a demand for tradesmen in the metal industries which would be difficult to fill. -As- the result of a series of meetings of experts and a careful analysis ot the requirements, it was decided to take steps immediately to increase the number of skilled workers by 500 tool-makers and 2,000 metal tradesmen. The facilities and staff and the State technical colleges and schools would be utilized by arrangement with the State authorities concerned. An advisory committee had been appointed, together with a director who would arrange suitable allotment of trainees to the several States.

Senator Keane:

– The Advisory Committee has been ret up in Victoria, and the director has been selected from that State.

Senator ASHLEY:

– It is logical to set up the Advisory Committee in the State where the majority of the work is being done, but I should like to know whether applications were called by advertisement for the position of director.

Senator Sheehan:

– The director is a very able man.

Senator ASHLEY:

– I do not doubt his capacity. It would appear that at the present time, at all events, the interests of the other States are subservient to those of Victoria, largely, no doubt, because the head-quarters of the Defence Department are located in Melbourne. I would have been satisfied had this appointment been advertised in the newspapers so that applicants from other States would have had a chance of appointment. I have drawn attention to the fact that the advisory committee is located in Melbourne. I agree that this arrangement may be advisable if the preponderance of work is to be done there. But it is not right to appoint a citizen of Victoria to the position simply on the ground that the department is located in Melbourne. There are in the other States, and particularly in New South Wales, men just as highly qualified for such important positions. The report goes on to state that trainees willbe instructed in Victoria and sent to the other States.

SenatorMcBride. - What trainees?

Senator ASHLEY:

– Trainees who later will be employed in munitions factories. The technical colleges in New South Wales are just as modern as are those in Victoria, and instructors are just as efficient, if not more efficient, than some of the Victorian instructors. Consideration should be given to the claims of New South Wales in this training of youths for technical positions. There is an admirable technical school at Lithgow where trainees could be instructed for subsequent work in the Lithgow factory. About 150 youths are seeking opportunities for some form of skilled work. They should have a decent chance in life, and could have it if the course I suggest were adopted, instead of having youths trained in Melbourne and later transferred to factories in other States. This is a reasonable request in which the people of

New South Wales and particularly the residents of Lithgow are deeply interested. For many years people in Lithgow have suffered lean times. The removal to Port Kembla of the ironworks which gave employment to a large number of people was a severe blow to the town. Some of its best citizens had established their homes there, and as they could not pick up their houses and follow their work to Port Kembla they suffered unemployment with all its hardships. I appeal to the Minister to give careful consideration to the suggestions which I have made, so that the interests of New South Wales will not be overlooked.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– Some reference has been made during this debate to the war. When war broke out the Australian Country party gave a wholehearted assurance to the Prime Minister that it would stand behind the Government in all its defence measures. I repeat that assurance. I approve of the Government’s policy in relation to the war, and I believe that the best interests of this country will be served by the closest cooperation of the two parties during its duration. I approve of the Government’s decision to send members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force to the theatre of war when, in its opinion, it is desirable to do so. If any change takes places in the relations of the United Australia and Country parties I hope that it will be in the direction of closer co-operation. I am opposed entirely to Labour’s defence policy of isolation, as I am to its amendment to another item on the notice-paper, relating to the Government’s decision to send the 2nd Australian Imperial Force overseas. The Country party should not take any action that would place Labour in office, because that would not be in keeping with the undertaking given to stand behind this Government during the war.

Senator Sheehan:

– The honorable senator will not be here after the next election.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– That is a. matter upon which I hold an entirely different opinion, and I think that the people of Australia will share the belief of the Country party that it would be wise to keep this Government in office during the war. This matter will be decided by the electors in due course. 1 do not intend to do anything that might precipitate an appeal to the country, although I have no doubt what the verdict will be.

Senator Fraser:

– Does the honorable senator support the Government in respect, of its arrangements for the sale of Australian wool?

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

-I support the Government in its war measures and I regard co-operation with Great Britain in its prosecution as the major issue in this Parliament. I consider that the Government is fortunate to have within its ranks a gentleman who is not only a distinguished soldier, but also a high military authority - I refer to my friend Senator Collett. T should be glad to hear of his inclusion in the war cabinet, because I think he ought to be there. I have no doubt whatever about the wisdom of the Government’s defence policy, and I feel sure that the majority of the people in Western Australia are satisfied with the work which it is doing to prosecute the ‘war successfully.

Having said this, I now take this opportunity to direct attention to details of administration in which interests of Western Australia have received scant consideration. I refer to action taken by the Government in connexion with certain English orders for jarrah and karri timbers required by the British Government. Some time ago the British Air Ministry was about to place orders for a considerable quantity of these timbers with firms in Western Australia. That was a wise and proper thing to do, because jarrah and karri are, I consider, the best hardwoods in the world. By some mischance, the papers relating to the orders came to Canberra, and the Commonwealth Government interfered in the matter. The orders had been practically secured by Western Australian enterprise, but through unnecessary interference by authorities at Canberra, tenders for the supply of timber are now thrown open to competition in the eastern States. Some people may argue that this was done in the interests of Australia generally, but I regard it as an unnecessary and unjust interference with

Western Australian State and private enterprise, because, so T understand, the State timber mill is concerned in this matter. The” Premier of Western Australia, Mr. Willcock, instructed the Agent General in London to inquire whether the facts are as I have stated, and he has sent official confirmation of them. Consequently a strong protest is being made by the Premier of Western Australia to the Prime Minister. This action follows other similar actions taken by the Commonwealth Government to the disadvantage of the interests of Western Australia. I am sorry that the Commonwealth has not taken to heart the lesson conveyed in the vote on secession some years ago, when the people of Western Australia by a two to one majority voted in favour of seceding from the Commonwealth. To-day, under war conditions, that movement is practically dead, and I do not wish to see it revived; but I urge the Government to give consideration to the matter which I have raised.

There has been discrimination by this Government in another matter of great importance to Western Australia and it may cause the abandonment of a valuable industry which would have given employment to several hundreds of people in the far north, the most vulnerable part of Australia from a defence point of view. I refer to the embargo imposed on the export of iron ore from Yampi Sound to Japan. Although the Government had reasons, the strength of which all of us appreciated, for prohibiting the export of iron ore from Yampi Sound to Japan, at the same time, with remarkable inconsistency, it placed no embargo on the export of pig iron and scrap iron from the Eastern States to Japan or any other country. Indeed, when the wharf labourers at Wollongong refused to load scrap iron to Japan, they were threatened with dire penalties. I have not yet been able to understand the Government’s reasoning that what was a virtue at Woollongong was an offence in Western Australia. This is another example of the discriminatory treatment of Western Australia by the Commonwealth. Its action on that occasion gave rise to much bitterness among the people of that State. While rich in primary industries, Western Australia is poor in secondary industries. Only this week, the Government decided to tax gold production, which is one of the most important industries in “Western Australia. This impost will be a severe handicap to that industry. After all, the life of even the” richest mine is limited. Indeed, while the gold tax measure was actually being considered in this Parliament during the last few days, the news came to hand that one of the biggest goldmines in Australia, a mine employing 1,000 men, was threatened with an early demise. The gold tax has been imposed on a basis which affords no relief to mines of this kind, which, though working to the advantage of Australia and the Empire and the men engaged in them, are operating at a loss to proprietors and shareholders.

Senator Sheehan:

– What is being done in order to establish secondary industries in Western Australia!

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– We are urging Western Australian purchasers to give first preference to articles of Western Australian manufacture, secondly, to Australian manufactures, and, thirdly, to British goods. I commend the Minister for Industry in Western Australia for the earnest drive which he is making in the interests of our infant secondary industries. My complaint is that secondary industries in Western Australia receive no assistance or encouragement from this Government. Practically none of the huge defence orders have been given to factories in that State. No munitions are being manufactured in Western Australia. Our repeated applications for orders from the Defence Department for our struggling secondary industries, and for the establishment of government munitions factories, have been rejected. In the interests of national security it would be wise not to concentrate our munitions factories on the eastern seaboard. They should be distributed throughout the Commonwealth, not only for good defence reasons, but also in order to permit of a balanced development of this continent. The Government should encourage the- maufacture of defence requirements in Western Australia. We find also that the claims of that State have been overlooked by -the Commonwealth in connexion with the training of troops for our Defence Forces. Western

Austraiian members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force are being transferred to the Eastern States, where they will encamp for training. Large numbers of young men have already been thus transferred. Surely the work of training our soldiers, insofar as it can be done in Australia, can be carried out just as efficiently in Western Australia as in the Eastern States. In this connexion, I offer an important suggestion for the consideration of the Government. It is that the Government should encourage the development of an Australian sentiment, and should give evidence of its realization that it has not forgotten that Western Australia is an integral part of the Commonwealth, by training any further divisions of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force which may be raised, in Western Australia. During the last war, also, Western Australian troops were transferred to the Eastern States for training. Why can we not have a reversal of that policy at least for once? Western Australia offers excellent natural facilities for the training of troops. Such a step would be an admirable national gesture which would encourage a truly Australian sentiment, the benefits o£ which would be made apparent, not only during this war, but also when the men so trained return to their respective States. This proposal is just as fair and proper, and just as much in the interests of the troops themselves, as the scheme now in operation. Troops should not be brought from the outlying States to New South Wales and Victoria to be trained. Should it be decided to raise further forces on the same lines as the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, such troops should be trained in Western Australia, where they would be 2,000 miles closer to the European theatre of war.

The seriousness of the disabilities being suffered by Western Australia under the treatment it receives from this Government, and of the growing, demand in that State for the removal of those disabilities, are emphasized in the following statement by the Premier of Western Australia (Mr. Willcock), published in yesterday’s issue of the West Australian -

Recently, through the activity and enterprise of West Australian timber interests, large orders for West Australian jarrah and karri, needed by the British Air Ministry for special work, has been almost secured, but as plans and specifications were incorrectly forwarded by Australia House to the Commonwealth instead of the State Government, the Federal authorities 6:.W fit to make representations to. London, which resulted in the Air Ministry’s agreeing that inquiries should not hu confined to jarrah and karri (notwithstanding their complete stability) and that tenders should be thrown open for the supply of all Australian timbers. This seems grossly unfair, considering the unique qualities of bur timbers, coupled with the fact that we have ample supplies, while other States are doubtful as to their ability to supply home consumption demands during the war period.

Senator Keane:

– Was it a large order ?

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I understand from the press that it was very substantial. Mr. Willcock went on -

I may also remark that we suffer considerable disadvantage in being unable to secure our reasonable share of expenditure necessitated by defence activity. Of defence expenditure we secure an almost infinitesimal proportion, and surely it is not too much to expect that when our natural resources give us a little advantage we should be able to utilize them to the full without interference by the Commonwealth Government.

Senator Sheehan:

– Has the honorable senator made any representations to the Government on this matter?

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I have unceasingly made such representations on, not only this, but also other matters, and, I regret to say, with very meagre results. Some of the disabilities are of comparatively minor importance from the Commonwealth’s point of view, but they are of major import to Western Australia, and there is no reason why this Government should not be more sympathetic in its treatment of Western Australia. Mr. Willcock said -

Dowered with millions of tons of a needed international commodity in the shape of iron ore, we are prevented by the Commonwealth from exporting it; nor yet are we given any assistance in mining it, or compensation for the export embargo. Another natural gift in the shape of gold suffers the infliction of an excise on its production, this hardship being almost wholly a West Australian concern, again not affecting other States. We can secure only one wool appraising centre in Western Australia, leaving the producers to lament the expense and loss they would otherwise be saved if accorded the same treatment as the Eastern States.

Senator Keane:

– Why does not the honorable senator threaten to withdraw his support from the Government?

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I have told honorable senators, and the people of Western Australia, that while the war lasts I intend to stand behind this Government, because I realize that the war is- the major consideration. if there were no war, however, I should have urged my party to take drastic action in its relations with the Government. I urge the Government not to continue in its obstinate refusal to grant the requests of Western Australia on the matters I have mentioned. All of them are of urgent importance to our people and recognition of our claims would go a long way to ameliorate conditions in that State. Mr. Willcock went on -

In this instance the representations of the Legislative Assembly and the State Government and the desires of the producers were flagrantly ignored by an. autocratic subsidiary board created by the Commonwealth Government and acting under delegated authority against the best interests of this State, as expressed by the responsible Government.

I hope that this concession will be granted before Parliament meets again. Why should the Government permit this irritation which extends through the woolproducing areas? I recall that during the last war when Australia’s wool production was smaller than it is to-day, the Western Australian members of this Parliament approached the then Prime Minister, the Bight Honorable W. M. Hughes, and demanded the establishment of appraising centres at Geraldton and Albany. Perhaps the right honorable gentleman did not extend to us the same courtesy as is extended by the present Prime Minister, but he certainly did not say that he would refer the matter to Mr. McGregor and ascertain what the Australian Wool Board, had to say. Mr. Hughes said, “ Yes, it will be done “, and it was done. The time has come when in matters of this kind, the Ministry should act and take the responsibility for doing the right thing, whether members of these boards agree or not. Unfortunately, on boards such as the Australian. Wool Board, the growers have not a majority of the representation, and in that regard, the constitution of these bodies is wrong. There should be less broker and middle man representation and more grower representation. But, whatever the representation is, in matters of this nature, the Government should do what is required by the primary producers. I commend the example of the Bight Honorable W. M. Hughes to the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies). Mr. Willcock continued -

Another feature of serious concern to our timber industry is the difficulty in securing adequate shipping space. Unless early arrangements can be made for shipment, mills will be congested with sawn timber awaiting delivery and serious unemployment in the industry must result.

I have taken these matters up very strongly with the Prime Minister to see if it is not possible to secure a nearer approach to a fair need of consideration in the muchvaunted doctrine of reciprocity, and, if this cannot be accorded, then at least more consideration in the matter of our handling our own national resources and opportunities in a manner that is better calculated to achieve good for our State instead of our being fettered by constant irritations and interference with matters which should at least be left to our control.

I agree with and support the whole of Mr. Willcock’s statement as to the everincreasing disabilities placed on Western Australia under federation.

It is to the credit of the Government of Western Australia that it is doing all it can, as is the Country party, to assist the Government in its war programme. According to the report, which I have just read, the Premier is alarmed at the ever-growing tendency of the Federal Government to place increasing burdens and disabilities on. Western Australia. I hope that, the Government will take these matters into consideration.

There is another small matter to which I should like to refer, and I would not bring it up at this late, stage had not my written and personal representations to the Minister for Commerce been unavailing. I give the Minister credit for the way in which he is carrying out the greater part of his heavy duties, but there are administrative matters in which he should make firm decisions. The Wheat Growers Union of Western Australia, which is a very militant body, representing many wheat-growers in that State, has for many years collected its annual subscriptions by obtaining orders on the Wheat Pool, and I think, on other wheat purchasing agencies in that State. I received a telegram from Mr. Powell - no doubt the same telegram was sent to other honorable senators - stating that it had. been the policy for many years past, to collect the subscrip- tions in this way, but unfortunately, the management of the Australian Wheat Pool in Western Australia had refused to accept these orders. I placed Mr. Powell’s telegram before the Minister, but the reply given was as follows : -

In answer to your letter of the 1st December, and also your other personal representations on behalf of the. Wheat Growers Union of Western Australia, I have to advise that 1 am not able to accede to the request of the Union that authority be given to members of the Wheat Growers Union to pay their annual subscriptions per medium of an order on the Australian Wheat Board.

Mr. Powell desired that the union be permitted to continue the existing practice, and I might point out that banks accept orders in that way. Since it has been the practice of the wheat-purchasing agencies in Western Australia to accept these orders in the past, 1 can see no reason why the Australian Wheat Board should not do likewise. The union will feel that it is being unjustly treated if the refusal is persisted in. I ask the Minister to reconsider the matter and to permit a continuance of the old system. Organization among farmers and primary producers is essential to-day for the preservation of the industry which is almost down and out, and I submit that unionism among primary producers can no more be prevented that unionism among industrial workers. As a matter of fact, the necessity for such an organization is recognized in many quarters. I believe that the Taxation Department allows .these subscriptions as a deduction for income tax purposes. The request is a very small one and I can see no justification for a refusal, particularly as the union is composed wholly of bona fide wheat-growers.

Senator SHEEHAN:
Victoria

– Senator Johnston opened his remarks by making some complimentary references to the Government, but, for the remainder of his address, he indulged in a very sour tirade of criticism. It is rather novel to find some one sitting on the Government side of the chamber who has the temerity to criticize the activities of the Government. One expects from the recognized Opposition some reviling of the Government’s policy, but such trenchant criticism is not expected from one of its followers. It is remarkable to me that Senator Johnston can justify his allegiance to the Government after the charges and criticism which he has levelled against it. I do not know what the people of Western Australia will think of Senator Johnston when, after criticizing the Government in such a manner, he continues as one of its staunch supporters. Perhaps at the next election they will be inclined to choose a representative who will express their views, and those of Western Australia, a little more forcibly, who will not be satisfied with just speaking about these things and accepting soft replies from the Government, but will see that his demands are met in every way. Although this period of the session is about to terminate very little has been accomplished. Several weeks remain before the Christmas season and the Government should keep Parliament in session to dispose of many urgent matters requiring attention. But the Government is master of its own destiny, and with a complaisant majority in both branches of the legislature it can close down parliament when it desires, regardless of the protests of the Opposition. Quite a number of persons in Australia have forgotten that Australia is at war and the purpose for which the war is being waged. Those who have forgotten are prepared to exploit the nation in its hour of need to the utmost of their ability in order to become rich, whereas others desire this country to be preserved and developed. At the outbreak of hostilities the members of all political parties in this Parliament declared that they wereanxious to assist to prosecute the war to a successful conclusion; but there is a difference of opinion as to how the resources of the nation should be organized in order to achieve success. One section - including some supporting the Government and some members of the Government - believes that the only way in which Australia can play an effective part is by denuding itself of its manpower.

SenatorMcBride. - No one holds that opinion.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– This afternoon Senator Allan MacDonald suggested that it was necessary for division after division of Australian troops to be sent abroad, and the Leader of the Country party in the House of Representatives (Mr. Archie Cameron) said that such a policy is in the interests of Australia and the Empire. Apparently the members of that party believe that Australia should be left unprotected. We do not support a policy of isolation, and the sentiments expressed by the Leader of the Opposition in the House of Representatives (Mr. Curtin) have been endorsed, not only in Australia, but also in the heart of the Empire. Many of our prominent and influential newspapers have supported the policy of Mr. Curtin, which they say deserves the earnest consideration of all sections of the community. This war differs from the last conflict in that in the previous war the alinement of various contending forces was clear; but in this conflict we do not know what course neutral countries are likely to follow and where the actual battle front is likely to be. We are fighting for the preservation of our national life. Australia, as a nation, with a population of fewer than 7,000,000 persons, of whom 3,000,000 are males, has to consider that in Eastern countries there are nations whose populations are numbered by hundreds of millions. As the area occupied by one of these nations represents one-sixth of the earth’s surface, we should endeavour to visualize the part which Australia will have to play in order to ensure the safety of the Empire. It has been said that Australia will take a more active part in determining the destinies of the Empire than in previous wars. The Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) said that by means of short-wave radio transmission the German people are featuring the attitude of the Opposition in this Parliament; but surely we are not likely to fall victims to German propaganda and allow Hitler to dictate the policy of the British Empire ! Those who have listened to the German broadcasts realize that statements broadcast night after night are not for the benefit of people in distant parts of the world, but are addressed to those nearer home. I earnestly believe that there are some influential persons in Australia who have pressed the Prime Minister against his will to send an expeditionary force overseas, and that the propaganda of certain interests is being employed to drive their political opponents into a fake position. Senator Allan MacDonald contends that the Labour party does not possess any military strategists, but members of that party, equally with the members, of the political party opposite are entitled to be guided by the opinions of reliable authorities. If we are to achieve success we must have a united people. There are three questions which we should ask ourselves. We must consider, first, the quantity of arms and munitions available; secondly, the supply of foodstuffs and how long it will last; and thirdly, the morale of the people. It is in connexion with the last-mentioned that I propose to criticize the policy of the Government. About this time last year the members of the Labour party endeavoured to induce the Government to make money available to assist the unemployed, but we were informed that finance could not be provided. Only to-day we passed a measure appropriating millions of pounds, a large proportion of which is to be used for defence purposes. What has happened in the meantime? Has this money been imported into Australia? If not, it was here last year and the year before that. The Government could have made it available in order to eradicate the cancer of unemployment that is eating into the vitals of the nation. Many of these 80,000 employable men have never had a job, and their morale has been sapped. If this war is to be waged successfully and the morale of the people is to be sustained during the crisis, the Government should see that the problem is grappled with as resolutely as it claims to be dealing with the commercial problems. It is of no use to give attention to the organization of our commerce if the Government neglects those things which involve the life or death of the nation. Owing to unemployment, communist doctrines flourish in some quarters, and certain “people desire to wreck the economic structure. Conditions such as these destroyed the economic structure of Russia and other countries.

The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) referred to the time lag in the. payment of the basic wage. This is one of the most important matters affecting “ the workers to-day. He quoted the opinions expressed by Dr. G. L. Wood, who has offered certain suggestions in order to overcome the time lag between the actual rise of the cost of living and its reflection in the wages of the worker. It is quite a mistake to imagine that the Commonwealth Statistician has anything to do with the fixation of the basic wage. He has no more to do with it than have honorable senators. He merely operates the machinery used for the collection of statistics, and he makes known a certain index figure. The Commonwealth Arbitration Court determines the wage and the formula for its adjustment. Acceleration of the work of the Arbitration Court and wages boards, and anticipation of the effects of current economic trends would possibly help in some directions. Owing to the illness of the Commonwealth Statistician, information was obtained from authoritative sources regarding the possibility of fixing the basic wage more rapidly than is done at the present time, and it was suggested from that source such acceleration , would be impossible owing to the difficulty experienced in obtaining the figures regarding food, rent- and groceries. To meet the contention that it would be impracticable to make monthly adjustments of the cost of living index figures, because of the difficulties in obtaining full details of changes in cost of rent, clothing and miscellaneous items throughout Australia each month, it should be possible to devise a formula whereby the time lag could be obviated and a monthly adjustment of wages, if desired by the unions, brought about. I understand that the Commonwealth Statistician could make available by the 21st day of the following month the correct index number for food and groceries for the previous month. To these could be added the costs of rent, clothing and miscellaneous items of the previous quarter. The items contained in the latter groups, while important, do not, owing to the greater stability of their prices, affect the variation of the basic wage as rapidly as do food and groceries. Thus a very reliable figure could be obtained which would grant to the wage-earner the immediate relief so necessary to meet the rise in the price of foodstuffs, which, taking the Melbourne figures as an example, show an increase of 2.9 per cent, for November over the September quarter, but the adjustment of the basic wage will not become operative until the 1st March, 1940. To keep the index numbers up to date, the corrected figures of the miscellaneous group could be brought in at the end of each quarter, as at present. Thus, two monthly adjustments could be made on the first two months of the current quarter for food and groceries, plus the costs of the rent, clothing and miscellaneous items for the previous quarter, and the third month of the quarter with the food and groceries, plus the rent, clothing and miscellaneous items for the current quarter. The problem is a most difficult one, for any formula devised to adjust wages more rapidly in order to enable the workers concerned to obtain the increase brought about by a rising market, would react to their detriment just as rapidly when the cost of living was receding. Failing the adoption of this suggestion, the Government should exert its influence to have the dates of adjustment of wages altered to those obtaining previous to the adoption of the “ C “ series, namely, the 1st February, the 1st May, the 1st August, and the 1st November, as the index numbers are available for the purpose from ten to twelve days prior to those dates. The suggestion I have made relates only to the adjustment . of the wage and a suggested device for more frequent adjustment; but the real grievance lies in the fact that no scientific inquiry has ever been made by the Commonwealth Arbitration Court into the real needs of the typical basic wage family. Such an investigation was made by the Royal Commission on the Basic Wage in 1920, but its recommendations were declared impracticable. After a lapse of nearly 20 years, a similar investigation is urgently necessary. If my suggestion be not considered, the Govern- ment should make representations to the court to alter the period for bringing in the adjustments. I appeal to the Government to consider these important matters. We must build up a strong and virile nation if Australia is to fulfil its destiny.

I should like to have discussed at some length the subject of oil production in Victoria. Senator Ashley referred to happenings in other parts of Australia in connexion with the search for oil, but I cannot understand why a strong effort has not been made to ascertain the potential value of the Lakes Entrance field. I have visited that area, and have seen oil flowing from a bore. As far as I could judge, as a layman, the field seems to be well worth developing.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– Is there flow oil at Lakes Entrance?

Senator SHEEHAN:

– Yes, I have seen it flowing from one of the bores, without repressuring. I am pleased to know that at last the Government is about to do something practical to encourage the discovery of flow oil in Australia, and I hope that the prognostications of those experts who have said that success will not attend our efforts will be proved wrong. I am not going to suggest that these experts know nothing about their business, although it is held by some who are closely associated with these companies that they have experienced considerable difficulty, and they believe that they have not received very sympathetic consideration from the Oil Advisory Committee.

Senator Herbert Hays:

– The committee would bc acting on the .advice of its experts.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– -Yes, and I understand that, having been so advised, the committee has indicated that further expenditure on some of these fields would not be justified. This matter should receive the close attention of the Government.

It is not my intention this afternoon to discuss wheat or the other subjects that have been mentioned in this debate. When Parliament is in recess, we shall” have an opportunity to talk about these things to the people, and I have no doubt that we shall be able to make some impression upon them.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- In the whole of these Estimates, no provision whatever nas been made for assistance to the gold-mining industry. Much money has been expended by the various governments for many years in assisting prospectors, and conducting geophysical surveys. I suggest that the time is ripe for practical assistance to be given to experienced miners in order that they may carry on their work and perhaps discover something really worth while. In Victoria, the acquisition of a lease costs about £30, and as this is beyond the means of the average working miner, many men are not able to hold leases which they believe would be well worth developing. My suggestion is that the Government should make available to State governments money which could be used for what I would call a mining charge moratorium on the definite understanding that one man should not hold more than one lease. This would ensure to those men to whom Senator Sheehan referred - working miners and small syndicates - sufficient backing to secure their title and work their leases. As there are about 700 leases in Australia, this suggestion, if adopted, would cost not more than £21,000, and I am sure that it would be most helpful to the genuine prospectors. I hope that it will receive the earnest consideration of the Government.

I am alarmed at the increased cost of living, especially since the outbreak of the war. Certain legislation has been passed by this Parliament and action has been taken by the Government to check prices, but in spite of all that has been done, the cost -of living is steadily rising. There is a lag of from four to five months between the rise of prices and the relief given to wage-earners through the pricesindex figures which govern adjustments of wages. The average worker is not much impressed when he reads that the Government intends to spend huge sums on its various war measures when he knows that his position is steadily becoming worse. The latest official figures released show that in Melbourne the basic wage has dropped by ls. a week. From a careful check which I have made in my own home, I know that it is impossible ‘ for people on the basic wage to live decently. I asked the Leader of the Senate yesterday if it would be possible to adjust more rapidly the relation between cost of living figures and wages in industry. The present wage is inadequate. Despite all that the Government is doing to check the upward tendency of commodity prices, it is impossible to hold prices at a reasonable figure. I hope that, in the recess, the Government will give close attention to thesematters. If Ministers expect the loyal support of the people in this crisis consideration should be given to the position of the men and women of this country who do the work, as well as the people on the dole and the invalid and oldagepensioners.

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
Western Australia

– I take this opportunity to bring under the notice of the Leader of the Senate (Senator McLcay) the confusion that has arisen in connexion with the sale of the Australian wool clip. Thousands of workers are being thrown out of employment as the result of the acquisition of the wool clip and the system of appraisement that has been introduced. Before the adoption of the control plan, numerous business firms were operating in Australia buying certain grades of wool. They gave employment to wool classers and graders and indirectly provided employment for a considerable number of workers. Within the last few weeks thousands of these people have been thrown out of work. The position has really become very serious, and should be investigated without delay. The Central Wool Committee should not be the final authority in these matters. I prefer to believe that the Minister retains some authority, and that action should be taken to keep in employment as many as possible of those people who have been thrown out of work through the operation of the Government’s plan. There is a strong demand for wool in all countries. Recent newspaper statements report that the available supply for the United States of America is12½ per cent. below the average for the last four years. The increased demand in recent years is the result of bad seasons in Australia, combined with a steadily expanding world demand for woollen goods. I hope that the Minister for Commerce will give this matter consideration. I agree that it is necessary that Parliament should adjourn in order that Ministers may devote the whole of their attention to administrative duties during the war. I think that every member of the Senate recognizes the position, but it is necessary to bring these matters to the notice of Ministers in order that remedial measures may be taken. I should like the Minister for Commerce to give me an assurance that as the result of a demand for increased supplies of our wool, Australia will participate in any enhanced prices that may be obtained, because, as I have endeavoured to explain, prices would have advanced even if war had not taken place. Under the Government’s proposal for the pooling of Australian wool the average price is 13 7-16d. per lb. The world demand, apart altogether from war conditions, is such as to warrant higher prices, and the wool-growers of Australia should receive further consideration. I urge the Government to do everything it possibly can in the interests of not only the growers, but also the workers in the industry.

At an unemployment conference held in Canberra yesterday it was stated that at the 30th June next from 20,000 to 30,000 youths would be unemployed in Australia. That is most serious. Whatever plans the Government envizages for the rehabilitation of workers in industry when the war is finished, should be worked out immediately and implemented as soon as possible. Nothing is so demoralizing to our youth as unemployment. The statement at the conference to which I have referred should make every honorable senator shudder. I hope that when Parliament re-assembles early next year the Government will be able to announce definite plans to deal with the problem of youth unemployment.

Senator CLOTHIER:
Western Australia

– I protest against the refusal of the Government to establish wool appraisement centres at Geraldton and

Albany. Both of these ports possess facilities adequate for the handling of wool produced in their respective hinterlands. Replying to representations on this point on the 14th October the Assistant Minister (Senator McBride) said that in view of the extra costs involved to the growers it would be unfair to establish appraisement centres at these towns. That argument is groundless, because a saving of 8s. 4d. a bale would be made on all wool handled and shipped at Geraldton. Today this wool has to be transported by rail” from Geraldton to Fremantle. The Government should not hesitate to establish appraisement centres at Geraldton and Albany. During the last war the necessity arose to conduct wool sales at Geraldton whichserves the rich sheep-raising districts of Murchison and Victoria. The whole of the clip from those districts was shipped from Geraldton before the last war and, I understand, preparations were being made on this occasion to re-establish sales at that centre, but the proposal was dropped because buyers intimated that they would refuse to attend. It cannot justly be argued that the establishment of appraisement centres at Geraldton and Albany would tend to dislocate the wool trade. In addition to the saving of 8s. 4d. a bale, which I have mentioned in respect of wool shipped from Geraldton, a saving of £1,500 a year could also be effected if the wool which at present is diverted at Mullewa and hauled over the Wongan line to Fremantle were shipped from Geraldton. Western Australia needs more than one appraisement centre. As to the capacity of Geraldton to handle this trade I quote the following letter written by the harbour master at Geraldton : -

Referring to your enquiry regarding accommodation for additional shipping at Geraldton, I have the honour to say that the wharf at Inner Harbour is 1,500 ft long, giving accommodation for three ships.

Vessels of 480 to 500 feet long can be manoeuvred in and out without delay. Occasional bad weather is possible, but bad weather at Geraldton is unusual; and little or no delay has been experienced.

With a wheat ship in No. 1 at the bulk handling berth, a wool ship would usually be given No. 2 or No. 3 berth with plenty of scope for shunting railway trucks at both ends of the ship, for quick despatch.

The depth of water all over the dredged inner harbour is - least water 30 ft. and the maximum draft 28 ft. Modern vessels to lift 9,000 tons of cargo would approximate 28 ft. draft.

The Western Australian Government has expended £1,000,000 on the jetty at Geraldton. The refusal of this Government to establish an appraisement centre there will mean that full use will not be made of this very modern accommodation for shipping. When I visited Geraldton a fortnight before I came to Canberra for the present session I saw 120 bales of wool loaded on ten trucks waiting to be railed to Fremantle.

Senator AMOUR:
New South Wales

– In connexion with the Government’s proposal to prevent war profiteering, I have been asked by the Bankstown Shire Council to draw attention to the increased charges being made for certain glass tubes supplied to the council by the Australian Glass Company from its factory at Waterloo. I have in my hand a tube which in 1936 was purchased by the Bankstown Council for1s. 6d. This year the council was charged 3s. each for the same tubes. Surely the manufacturers cannot justify an increase of 100 per cent. since 1936. I urge the Minister to inquire into this matter. In order to assist him to do so I shall make available correspondence which has been supplied to me by the Bankstown Shire Council in connexion with its purchases of these tubes. The Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick

Stewart) recently exposed attempts by a section of boot manufacturers to profiteer in connexion with defence contracts. I suggest that a similar investigation should be made in connexion with the operations of the Australian Glass Company.

I am opposed to the despatch of any Australian troops overseas. Senator Allan MacDonald said that we could afford to send several divisions abroad without materially depleting our man-power. The honorable senator fails to take cognizance of the changes occurring daily in the political and military situation. Having regard to the uncertainty of the international position, it would be a national” calamity if at this’ juncture, at any rate, we despatched the flower of our manhood overseas. I remind the honorable senator that our High Commissioner in London, Mr. Bruce, on his recent visit to Australia, made it clear that should war break out in Europe Australia would do well to defend itself, and that it should retain the whole of its man-power for the defence of its own shores. I know of nothing that has happened to warrant any change of policy in that respect. The Government should also bear in mind that it failed to get a full quota of volunteers for the 2nd Australian Imperial Force to be sent overseas. Indeed, the only method by which it can secure sufficient troops for overseas service is by conscription. Particularly is this so when the rate of pay for our expeditionary forces is to be 5s. a day. I urge the Government not to introduce conscription, or to despatch any troops for service overseas, “without first securing the approval of the people on each of those issues by “way of referendum. The mothers of our young men are most perturbed concerning proposals of this kind. Only to-day I was speaking to a lady who came to Canberra in order to find out what the Government intended to do in regard to the payment of our soldiers. She took an active part in the recruiting campaign for the Militia some eighteen months ago, and she was thoroughly disgusted at the Government’s attempt to fix the pay of our troops at 5s. a day. She now regrets that she supported that recruiting campaign.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- I should not have spoken at this juncture but for the statement made by Senator Amour that members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force to be despatched overseas are to receive only 5s. a day. That is absolutely untrue. “When he goes overseas the private will receive 5s. a day in English currency, which, allowing for exchange, is equal to 6s. 3d. Australian. He will also receive 2s. a day deferred pay.

Senator Amour:

– The 5s. paid to the Australian soldier in England will be worth only 5s. in England.

Senator LECKIE:

– But it will be equal to 6s. 3d. in Australian currency. Whether that rate of pay is sufficient or otherwise is another matter entirely. The statement made by Senator Amour is misleading, and should not be allowed to go uncontradicted. The fact is that our soldiers who go overseas will be paid at the rate of 8s. 3d. a day in Australian currency.

I was astonished to hear one honorable “ senator opposite criticizing Senator Johnston for having had the temerity to take the Government to task. That, I submit, is a demonstration of the difference between honorable senators on this side of the chamber and honorable senators opposite. We are free individuals. We believe in the principles for which the Government stands, but that does not prevent us from offering criticism if necessary. The opinion of honorable senators opposite is expressed for them by their leader.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– They have Easter conferences as well.

Senator LECKIE:

– That is so. The Leader of the Opposition says what the Easter conferences tell him to say. What the leader says forcibly and ably is merely repeated by his supporters with varying degrees of accuracy, eloquence and clarity. My experience has been that very little of real value is added by honorable senators opposite to the wisdom of their leader.

It appears to me that many people both inside and outside this chamber are forgetting that there is a war on. That grave fact has not yet been forcibly brought home to us, but it will be brought home with increasing reality as days go by. The present state of affairs cannot continue much longer. In the meantime the Government is doing its utmost in the interests of the defence of this country. During the three months which has elapsed since the outbreak of war it has performed more solid and sincere work than any government since federation. To realize this, one has only to appreciate the magnitude of the tasks which have been accomplished. It has been alleged that, in a similar period following the outbreak of the last war, hundreds of thousands of troops were trained, fully equipped and sent overseas. If honorable senators who made such assertions have not the personal knowledge of what occurred at that time they should read it up. Our first troops were sent away on the 9th December and they were only half trained.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– The first division left in October.

Senator LECKIE:

– I am speaking of the departure from Fremantle.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– We left Fremantle on the 21st October.

Senator LECKIE:

– At any rate the men were only half trained, and they numbered only half the force which today has received a similar amount of training.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– I doubt that.

Senator LECKIE:

– I do not doubt it. In addition tothat, whilst the Australians certainly went away clothed in 1914, they took with them no accoutrements.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– We had the accoutrements.

Senator LECKIE:

– The rifles had to be changed when the troops reached Egypt, and all equipment such as machine guns, grenades, &c, had to be supplied by Great Britain. Now all that equipment is being manufactured in this country.

Senator Allan MacDonald:

– We were supplied with our equipment in Australia.

Senator LECKIE:

– The honorable senator is surely forgetting the fact that Australia did not make machine guns, grenades or bombs in 1914.

I rose to speak on this matter merely for the purpose of removing some wrong impressions caused by speeches of honorable senators opposite. In the first place the statement by Senator Amour that the Australian soldiers are being paid 5s. a day is quite wrong. Actually they are being paid the equivalent of 8s. 3d. a day in Australian currency. It is time that such statements were contradicted. I advise the Leader of the Opposition to exercise some control over members of his party in order that they may leave facts in the same state in which they find them.

Senator CAMERON:
Victoria

– I wish briefly to refer to certain statements concerning the basic wage. I regard this matter as one of fundamental importance, because, in my opinion, the basic wage is the key to the whole position. It has been said, quite truthfully, that the cost of living is increasing, and the purchasing power of the basic wage naturally is decreasing. It has been suggested during the course of the debate, that, if the time lag were made up, and the adjustments were made more quickly, some improvement would be brought about. That is true up to a point. The fact I wish to emphasize at the moment, particularly for the benefit of Ministers, is that the basic wage, based on the cost of living, will never improve the present position. Whether the basic wage be adjusted slowly or quickly, the result will be the same. The basic wage is based on the cost of subsistence, and does not represent anything that is new; it has operated from time immemorial. Although honorable senators may regard the statement which I am about to make as being paradoxical, I insist that it is true : The basic wage, assessed by the arbitration courts in accordance with the recognized formula, is relatively less than it has ever been.

Senator Mcbride:

– That is not correct.

Senator CAMERON:

– I expected the honorable senator to say that. It is what would be said by most people who have not given sufficient thought to the matter. The point I wish to stress is that the basic wage is based on the cost of subsistence. Wages are paid in accordance with the labour-time involved in the production of a commodity. It is true.beyond contradiction, that the labour-time required for the production of almost any commodity that can be named isless than it has ever been in the past, and is becoming progressively less. If, for example, I were engaged in the manufacture of a table years ago, and a week’s work were required, I would receive a week’s cost of subsistence in return, but to-day, owing to the introduction of machinery and the improvement of methods, the table could probably be made in one day, and I would receive a wage based on the labour-time involved. Therefore, the basic wage to-day is relatively less than it has been in the past, and I challenge the Minister - to deny that. I am putting forward this view merely to emphasize what I consider to be an incontrovertible fact. No matter what is done to adjust the cost of living figures, whether it be done slowly or done quickly as proposed by Dr. Wood, the position of the wageearner will not be improved. As a matter of fact, it will go from bad to worse.

SenatorMcBride. - That is not a fact.

Senator CAMERON:

– I insist that it is a fact. I am not impressed by the honorable senator’s capacity to judge. With all respect, I say that the honorable senator has yet to give evidence that he is a student of economics. I suggest that he takes his knowledge from authorities who know no more than he does.

SenatorMcBride. - I certainly would not accept the honorable senator’s statement.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order ! Honorable senators must address the Chair.

Senator CAMERON:

– I am merely expressing a view which is in opposition to that held by the Assistant Minister, and my remarks are timely and appropriate in view of the fact that we are faced with an unemployment problem which, as I have said previously, is unprecedented. The position which I have outlined is one which is not understood by our Arbitration Court judges. If it were, the judges would give a lead. Instead, however, we are told by Chief Judge Beeby that this is no time to alter wages either up or. down. The fact is that real wages - the purchasing power of the workers - are fixed in accordance with the amount of labour-time involved in the production of commodities, and are being reduced all along the line. That is the reason for the increasing unemployment. It is also responsible for the inability of the workers to purchase commodities which are produced in abundance but cannot be sold. All that the Arbitration Court has done by adopting the formula of wages based upon the the cost of living, where Labour has been a diminishing quantity, has been to stabilize poverty. If that statement be denied, we are still faced with the fact that there is increasing unemployment in the midst of plenty. If that can be explained I shall reconsider what I am now stating as a fact ; but it cannot be explained. All that the Federal and State Governments do is to make grants from time to time to relieve unemployment, and State governments are now insisting that men shall work in return for sustenance or the dole. I submit these well-founded opinions so that the Government may consider the whole situation. Wages are being reduced. We are producing more wheat, wool, meat, eggs, butter and other primary products than can be sold profitably. If the Government wishes to take effective action to remedy this state of affairs it must establish a balanced economy. It must provide sufficient purchasing power to buy commodities, and unless that be done we shall be operating on an unbalanced basis. We have thousands of workers unable to purchase the commodities we produce and the position has become chaotic. The Government has no remedy beyond the” dole, sustenance or relief works, all of which are uneconomic and are doing more harm than good.

Senator Herbert Hays:

– The honorable senator is dealing with the result rather than the cause.

Senator CAMERON:

– The cause is due to wages being assessed in accordance with the cost of living, and that has been done from time immemorial. The effect is that there is increasing unemployment in the midst of plenty.

Senator Hebrert Hays:

– What is the remedy?

Senator CAMERON:

– A reduction of the number of hours worked, increased wages, and improved and extended social services so that the consuming power of the people will more or less approximate to their purchasing power. That is the means by which to establish a balanced economy. The war has accelerated the’ effects I have described, and unless something be done to rectify them, when the war is over we shall have that economic chaos which the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) predicted. If we take time by the forelock, and proceed to establish a balanced economy within our own country so that the purchasing power of the working population will be approximately equal to that produced and what is required, chaotic conditions may be avoided. The Assistant Minister may regard this subject as of no importance, but he cannot ignore facts. With increased productivity and decreased purchasing power we shall, sooner or later, have to face the position. Unless this subject is studied by judges of the Arbitration Court and by Ministers chaos will prevail. Life in all its phases can exist in equilibrium only, and governments and judges should, during a period of accelerated development, consider the necessity to establish a balanced economy because only by doing so will they dispense with unemployment. During the depression the farmers were told to grow more wheat, and a larger quantity was produced. While the demand was equal to the supply all was well, but when the supply exceeded the demand the position became acute, and to-day we are faced with the fact that we have more wheat than we can sell because the supply exceeds the demand. The remedy suggested is a reduction of acreage, which means thatby a process of elimination the small wheat-growers are to he starved out. Ultimately the wheat industry will be on the same basis as the sugar -industry and will be a privately owned and controlled monopoly. If that should happen there will be centralized control, thus reducing the level of the workers to sustenance.

Senator Cooper:

– Does the honorable senator think that that has happened in the sugar industry?

Senator CAMERON:

– Yes. The sugar industry benefits those engaged in it and those who participate in the profits. The industry is of no use to those whose purchasing power prevents them from buying sugar.

Senator Cooper:

– The number of persons engaged in the sugar industry has increased.

Senator CAMERON:

– That does not affect the position. “We are producing sugar more economically, but whilst that is beneficial to the producers it does not help the consumers. I trust that the brief remarks I have made in connexion with the basic wage and its effect will be taken into consideration by the Government immediately, so that after the war it will be in a better position to establish a balanced economy.

Senator DEIN:
New South Wales

– In some instances the prices of commodities have been raised unjustifiably, and steps should be taken to prevent such increases. During the last three months I have on several occasions brought under the notice of the Deputy Commissioner of Prices in Sydney, and also of the Canberra authorities, instances in which unfair increases have been made. Even this afternoon I drew the attention of one of the authorities in Canberra to such a case. I am sure that the deputy commissioners in the capital cities would appreciate information supplied to them in regard to such matters.

The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) was most unfair in stating that by sending an expeditionary force overseas the Government would be robbing the women of Australia of their menfolk. It would have been just as logical for him to say to the members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, “You are running away from the women and children, and leaving them to take care of themselves “. These men have volunteered for a definite purpose, and they well know what is in front of them. Their first objective is to give to the women and children of Australia the protection which is necessary. They know where the enemy is, and they have offered their services to fight him wherever he happens to be. The despatch of 20,000 men overseas will not deplete Australia’s man-power. I regard the remark of the Leader of the Opposition as a cowardly attack on the young men who will go overseas to fight. A great deal could be said in reply to the foolish statements made regarding the expeditionary force, but I shall not continue the discussion, in view of the fact that much business has to be done before this period of the session closes to-night.

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– in reply - The Government appreciates the assurance given by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) that he and his party will give to the Ministry every possible assistance to bring the war to a successful conclusion. I expect criticism from the Opposition of the various actions of the Government, and it is particularly acceptable if it is of a constructive nature. I was interested to hear the reference by the Leader of the Opposition to the necessity for the laying down of plans to deal with the conditions that will prevail when the war is over. The honorable senator would no doubtbe in agreement with the statement made by the Prime Minister, Mr. Menzies, four or five weeks ago, that the Government recognized the present necessity for, not only prosecuting the war with the utmost vigour, but also planning ahead for the peace which we all hope will come at no distant date. I was looking forward to receiving suggestions from the Leader of the Opposition which would assist the Government in its difficult work of post-war planning. The Prime Minister mentioned the need for a thorough survey of the resources of this country and of the primary and secondary industries, in order to ascertain which industries should he extended and which, if any, should be restricted. The Government has indicated that it is taking appropriate steps to plan for the coming peace.

The Leader of the Opposition confined his remarks almost entirely to the subject of the basic wage. That is an important matter, but I suggest that it is not a nev? problem, and ia not likely to be solved in the immediate future. I was disappointed that the honorable gentleman devoted so much of his time to that matter.

The first post-war problem that the Government should deal with will be that of transferring employees now engaged in defence activities into other occupations where they will be able to earn even the present basic wage. Some honorable senators have made suggestions which I am sure the Government will be pleased to consider fully. Senator Ashley remarked that the technical school at Lithgow could be used for the training of some of the artisans who may be required in connexion with our wartime activities. That suggestion will receive the attention of the appropriate Minister. Senator Johnston made a complaint regarding the position of Western Australia in respect of munitions and military supplies. He knows quite well that tenders for these supplies are invited in all of the States and that the conditions of tender are such that tenderers in the various capitals are treated alike. If Western Australia cannot compete under those conditions, I. am afraid that the Government cannot give undue preference to that State. The honorable senator also complained with regard to the training of the troops, and asked that, in future, troops organized in Western Australia should not be sent to other parts of the Commonwealth for the completion of their training. The fact must be realized that military training is a progressive process, and, whilst troops may be trained up to the battalion stage in their own States, it is necessary, when completing their training, to bring large bodies of’ troops to a common training centre.

Several honorable senators have suggested that the Government is depleting the man-power of Australia by organizing an expeditionary force. Ministers are as anxious as any other members of this Parliament that the defence of Australia shall not he weakened, but it is fantastic to suggest that our man-power would be seriously depleted by sending 20,000 troops overseas, since we have nearly a million men in this country whose ages range between 19 and 35 years.

Senator Collings:

– Can the Minister guarantee that not more than 20,000 men will be sent abroad?

Senator McBRIDE:

– I cannot, but the Government will be guided by the needs of the situation from time to time. If we regard it as safe to do so, we shall no doubt send more than 20,000 troops overseas, but that will depend entirely upon the conditions which prevail as the war proceeds.

Senator Cunningham has referred to the position with regard to wool. A misconception has arisen among wool-growers as to the actual position. I have heard criticism of the scheme that the Government has introduced on the score that in some other parts of the world the price of wool is higher than that to be paid under the scheme for the purchase of our wool by the British Government. I ask wool-growers who offer that criticism to remember that in the last war the British Government did not purchase our wool until the war had been in progress for two years. Honorable senators might consider what would have happened in Australia if the British Government had not bought our wool on that occasion. Between 1914 and 1916, when we had the open auction in this country, the price of wool rose very little. On the present occasion, the British Government purchased the wool at the beginning of the war, and because there appears to be a great demand for that commodity, and it is apparently fetching a higher price than has been received from the British Government, I call attention to one or two facts: The first is that, owing to Australia having sold its clip to the British Government, certain countries which in the past were large buyers of our wool, and depended upon purchases from us for supplies to manufacturers, have been temporarily unable to get their normal supplies. We are now negotiating with them, and it is expected that they will soon be able to purchase supplies from Australia. In their eagerness, however, to get supplies from other countries, they have temporarily, I suggest, increased the price of wool in those countries. When we deliver normal quantities to those countries, it is unlikely that wool prices will remain at their present level. In the circumstances the Government did not only the best for the Empire, but also the best for the woolgrowers of Australia. I believe that the prices agreed upon are fair and reasonable for both Great Britain and the Australian wool-growers.

Sitting suspended from 6.3 to 7 p.m.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This measure provides for the appropriation of revenue for the ordinary services of the various departments. As the expenditure proposals of the Government were set out in the financial statement delivered in the House of Representatives by the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) and recently presented in this chamber for the information of honorable senators, it is not proposed to deal in detail with the various items. Any explanations that may be desired will be furnished at the committee stage. The bill provides for an appropriation of ?22,179,400 for the services of the year 1939-40, to which should be added the amounts already granted under Supply Acts. Nos. 9 and 39 of 1939, namely, ?10,477,100 and ?7,433,800 respectively, making the total amount of ?40,090,300, which is the estimated expenditure from annual appropriations for the ordinary services for the year 1939-40, as set out in detail in the second schedule of the bill.

Senator Keane:

– May we take it that this bill approves of all expenditure up to June next?

Senator McBRIDE:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– Yes.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

The CHAIRMAN:

- (Senator James Mclachlan). - With the concurrence of the committee, I purpose taking the schedules as a whole.

Honorable Senators. - Hear, hear!

First and second schedules.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- Can the Minister inform me what safeguards are taken by the Treasury, apart from examination of expenditure by the Auditor-General, in connexion with the disbursement of the large amount of money contained in this Appropriation Bill?

Senator McBRIDE:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

– The Treasury issues warrants for the various departments, which are not permitted to exceed the amounts provided.

Senator Keane:

– Without that authorization no money can be expended?

Senator McBRIDE:

– All expenditure is under warrants from the Treasury.

First and second schedules agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without requests; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2557

FRIDAY ADJOURNMENT AT 4 P.M

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes). - In conformity with the sessional order, I formally put the question -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Question resolved in the negative.

page 2557

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following bills reported : -

Ship Bounty Bill 1939.

Loan Bill (No. 2) 1939.

National Oil Proprietary Limited Agreement Bill 1939.

page 2557

RAW COTTON BOUNTY BILL (No. 2) 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders,, suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Secondreading.

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– - I move -

That the billbe now read a second time.

The bill provides for an amendment of theRaw Cotton Bounty Act 1934-1938 in the form of an extension of the bounty on raw cotton for one year from the 1st December, 1939, at the rate applicable under that act during the last two years, namely a basic bounty of 4¼d. per lb. when the spot price of American middling cotton at Liverpool is 6d. per lb.

The actual bounty paid will depend, as hitherto, the actual Liverpool spot price. For each weekly variation of the Liverpool price by one hundredth of a penny per lb. above or below 6d. per lb. during the ginning of the Queensland crop, the bounty on raw cotton produced in that week will be one-hundredth of a penny per lb. less or more than 4¼d. per lb.

Honorable senators “will note that the bounty now proposed is1d. per lb. higher than that provided in the bill which was introduced in the House of Representatives in September last.- The original bill was in accordance with the Tariff Board’s recommendation, which was based on peacetime conditions. However, further consideration by the Government of the position of the Australian cotton industry - especially its importance in wartime as a raw material used extensively for civil and military purposes, so much of which has to be imported - indicated that, it -was not desirable, at the present time, to reduce the existing bounty.

As a result of the Government’s announcement a few weeks ago of its decision to support a renewal of the existing rate of bounty, the issue to growers by the Queensland Cotton Board of seed for planting has already increased from the equivalent of 30,000 acres to 46,000 acres, and may increase still further. The latter acreage will, under satisfactory climatic conditions, yield some 13,000 bales of raw cotton.

The Commonwealth Government has assisted this industry with marked generosity. From 1923 to 1925, it paid £170,900 to cotton producers to cover losses under the then system of guaranteed prices, and from 1926 tothe 31st

October, 1939, bounty payments have amounted to no less a sum than £1,021,099.

The extension of the present rate of bounty for one year will enable the Government to give the requisite consideration to the usual long-range policy for assisting the industry. This will involve most careful attention by the Government to the urgent need, which was stressed by the Tariff Board, for a very substantial improvement of production efficiency in the cotton-growing industry: The yield an acre in Queensland has declined to a rather alarming degree. The Tariff Board reported that the best methods of cultivation and rotation are not generally practised, and that scientific research for the purpose of overcoming pests and diseases, and of breeding cotton plants which will give economic yields an acre of types of cotton suitable for Australian requirements, should be accelerated and improved. It seems especially necessary to produce cotton in Australia under suitable methods of irrigation, by which the yield an acre could probably be increased threefold. By the various attainable improvements just mentioned, there is no doubt that the cost of producing cotton in Australia could be substantially reduced, thus enabling material reductions of the present bounty payments without any disability to cotton-growers.

The Commonwealth Government, and the people of Australia which it represents, are entitled to expect the utmost possible efficiency from all industries which are protected by bounty or tariff. The Government therefore hopes that satisfactory arrangements will be made immediately for the institution, by the Queensland Government and the cotton industry, of a comprehensive plan for putting the industry on asound economic footing as early as possible. The adequacy of that plan will largely determine the incidence, of any long-range policy of the Government for assisting the cotton industry after the termination of the proposed legislation, which I now submit for the favorable consideration of honorable senators.

SenatorCOURTICE (Queensland) [7.12]. - The Assistant Minister (Senator McBride) has explained the main provisions of the bill but he did not indicate definitely the future attitude of the Government towards this important Queensland industry. A few months ago, much to the consternation of the Queensland growers, the Government threatened to reduce the bounty. Had that threat been carried out the results to growers would have been disastrous. The proposal now is to continue the bounty for another year. To me this is a most unsatisfactory arrangement. Every one with a knowledge of a primary industry knows that any financial arrangement for one year is not sufficient. The Government’s decision to continue the raw cotton bounty for one year only will cause great uneasiness among growers in Queensland because of the doubt regarding the future. The Minister has told us that, in the opinion of the Government, the cotton industry should become more efficient. I agree, and I believe that efficiency can be reached in a reasonably short period if the Government gives to the industry the encouragement which it deserves. The production of cotton is an important wartime need. I should like to know whether the Government has in contemplation any long-range plan for the encouragement of this industry, or whether it intends merely to leave the industry to ensure its own preservation. The cotton industry is deserving of the greatest encouragement, because great possibilities exist for it in this country, particularly when we realize that some of our other important primary industries have practically reached saturation point. It cannot be enabled to expand as it should, except through scientific planning, involving irrigation and improved methods of cultivation. However, greater encouragement would be given to those engaged in the industry if assistance were extended for a longer period. I cannot understand the reason for this limitation. No danger exists that the cotton industry will be confronted with problems similar to those which have arisen in the wheat industry as the result of thousands of farmers attempting to grow whe’at on marginal areas. With proper assistance cottongrowing can be brought to as efficient a standard as the great sugar industry in Queensland. I remember the time when parliaments and governments, because of the price at which black-grown sugar could be imported, did not deem it worth while to encourage the sugar industry in this country. However, that policy was abandoned and since then astounding progress has been made in the sugar industry. Half of our sugar production is exported at a price at which it can compete with black-grown sugar on overseas markets. I feel sure that the Government, a few months ago, had practically made up its mind to discontinue’ this bounty. Foi that reason, I should like to be assured that the Government is sincerely anxious to foster this industry. Were the bounty discontinued at this juncture, large numbers of cotton-growers would have been ruined. A prosperous cotton industry would tend to (balance our industrial economy. With the application of scientific methods backed by adequate assistance from this Government, I can visualize the day when the industry will be completely revolutionized. If, and when, that time arrives, it will not need assistance of this kind. However, at this stage of its development, the Government is unwise in merely making this bounty available from year to year. Such a policy gives rise to uncertainty among growers, and is fatal. The Government of Queensland is prepared to finance irrigation works in its cotton-growing areas, but it can hardly be expected to incur much expenditure in the absence of definite assurances that the Commonwealth Government will play its part in assisting the industry. Let us help this industry in tha same way as we helped the sugar industry, which to-day is producing 2,000,000 .tons of cane sugar. Sales of our sugar overseas realize £5,000,000 annually, which is a considerable contribution to our credits abroad. If the cotton industry be assisted in a similar way by this Government in co-operation with the State Governments, it will undoubtedly prove of equal value in the economy of this country. I support the measure, but, I repeat, I should like to feel certain that the Government is sincerely desirous of helping the industry.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– I commend this Government for giving this bounty to a primary industry instead of increasing the tariff, as has been the. usual practice in the past.. The assistance is considerably in excess of that which was recommended by the Tariff Board. The industry is undoubtedly of great value to Australia, and the Country party, therefore, is anxious to see it, along with every other primary industry, encouraged as much as possible. I regret that owing to the financial strain involved, the Government has not the means to afford a corresponding amount of assistance to wheat-growing and other primary industries. As the Minister pointed out, no less than £170,900 was advanced to the cotton industry prior to 1926, whilst from 1926 to 1939, governmental assistance amounted to £1,021,099. Thanks to the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll), I was given an opportunity to see something of the cotton industry in Queensland. I should like to see the industry established in the north of Western Australia. I recall that about fifteen years ago blocks for cotton-growing were surveyed near Derby in the West Kimberley district.

Senator MCBRIDE:

– This bounty is available for cotton-growing in Western

Australia

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I am a ware of that, and, of course, the Government could not constitutionally restrict the payment of this bounty to cottongrowers in any one State. We know, of course, that Queensland enjoys almost exclusively the assistance given to the sugar industry. We in Western Australia are desirous of following Queensland’s example in establishing these great industries, and we hope to develop our lengthy western littoral in this way. We could thereby qualify for a greater share of the benefits derived from assistance of this kind. We have hopes of establishing the beet-sugar industry in the southwestern portion of Western Australia. That industry has proved very successful in Gippsland. I support the measure, and again express the hope that we in Western Australia shall yet establish industries of this kind, which will enable us’ to obtain a greater share of the assistance now granted to some particular primary industries.

Senator McBRIDE:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

– in reply - I assure the honorable senators from Queensland that the Commonwealth Government is quite sincere in its wish that 1 this industry should continue to expand. As I pointed out in my second-reading speech, one of the most important features of the industry has been the rapidly decreasing acreage yield over a period of years. This has been due to various factors, one of which is the method of cultivation, involving the rotation of crops. It has been proved in other countries that the yield can be increased, anything up to three-fold, by means of irrigation. The Commonweath Government has already discussed this matter with the Premier of Queensland, and I understand that he is prepared to introduce a long-range plan for the irrigation of cotton-growing areas of Queensland. If that plan be adopted, the Commonwealth Government will have no hesitation in continuing the bounty at a level which will ensure the permanent expansion of the industry. For the information of honorable senators, I draw attention to the manner in which the yield of cotton in Queensland has been decreasing in recent years : -

Those figures which are the latest available show that in four years the yield to the acre has dropped from 205 to 68 lb. However, the reverse has been the case in countries where irrigation has been undertaken. In Soviet Russia during the same period, the acreage yield has increased from 177 lb. to 341 lb. In Egypt, where cotton is grown mostly by irrigation, the yield has risen to as high as 500 lb. an acre.

I assure honorable senators that if an irrigation scheme be undertaken by the Queensland Government, the Commonwealth Government will give the necessary support to. the industry.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a . second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2560

AIR FORCE BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and ‘Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill has been brought down for the purpose of introducing into the Royal Australian Air Force a code of administration similar to that existing in the Royal Australian Navy, and in military services, here and in other parts of the world. During the course of the debate in the House of Representatives, the Opposition moved two amendments which were accepted by the Government and arc now incorporated in the bill. I commend the bill to honorable senators.

Debate (on motion by Senator Collings) adjourned.

page 2561

MOTOR VEHICLE ENGINE BOUNTY BILL 1939

Bill received from House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE (South Australia-

Assistant Minister) [7.37]. - I move -

That the bill bc now read a second time.

In May, 1936, the then Government announced its intention to give encouragement to the establishment in Australia of the manufacture of motor vehicle engines and chassis. To achieve this, a bounty was proposed on engine units, and, in order to meet this expenditure, an additional import duty of . 7d. per lb. was imposed on all chassis imported. Since then the matter has been the subject of exhaustive investigation and prolonged negotiations.

When the present Government assumed office, one of its first acts was to give consideration to the question and to announce that the Government had definitely decided that motor vehicle engines and chassis were to be manufactured in Australia without undue delay. The reasons actuating the Government’s decision were defence preparedness, industrial expansion, conservation of overseas funds, immigration, employment and utilization of Australian raw materials.

The present bill is brought forward in order that the Government’s offer may be translated into an Act of Parliament and the Government’s desire to see the industry fully established fulfilled.

Briefly the terms of the Bounty Bill are as follows: -

  1. to provide a bounty on engine units of 15 horse-power or over at rates of:

For the first 20,000 units produced - £30 each.

For the second 20,000 units produced - £25 each.

For the third 20,000 units produced - £20 each.

  1. to make a proportionate reduction of the rates if the units contain less than 90 per cent. of Australian materials,
  2. to commence bounty payments after the Governor-General notifies in the Gazette that there is a factory with complete works and properly equipped for the manufacture of at least 8,000 units per annum,
  3. to pay bounty only to a company of which at least two-thirds of the capital is Australian owned and Australian controlled.

The total bounty payments provided for amount to £1,500,000 for the 60,000 engine units. It is expected that it will take a well-equipped company some four years to produce such a quantity. From now until the end of the four-year manufacturing period, it is estimated that the existing duty of . 7d. per lb. imposed on imported chassis will return £1,400,000.

In the early stages of manufacture it will be essential for the successful marketing of the car that a differential price in favour of the Australian car be established. Probably the major portion of the bounty will be required to achieve this price differentiation. To the degree to which the prices of cars are reduced the public will benefit.

The Government is very anxious for the industry to be established in Australia at the earliest possible date and believes that the passing of this legislation will be an important contribution to that end. It is satisfied that motor car engines and chassis can be produced in Australia economically and without additional cost to the public. Certain parts may have to be imported in the initial stages, but ultimately most of the engine and chassis parts will be manufactured in Australia. This bill does not, of course, make provision for assistance in respect of chassis parts. The question of the form of protection to be accorded to these will be considered at a later stage.

The extent to which assistance on engine units will be given on the expiration of the bounty will be determined by the Government after Tariff Board inquiry. In conclusion I earnestly appeal to all honorable senators to give the greatest possible support to this bill, and to the industry when it is established.

Senator COLLINGS:
QueenslandLeader of the Opposition

– The Opposition rejoices to see that the Government is making this move. A certain fund representing the special duty of .7d. per lb. on imported chassis has been accumulating for so long that we consider that the time is overdue for the introduction of a scheme such as this. The effect of this legislation will be to establish a new Australian industry, and the Opposition gives to the bill its blessing.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– The Country party believes that this bill should be referred back to the Tariff Board for consideration in view of the recommendations which .the board “made in September, 1937. I have carefully prepared a speech on this subject, and the length of it may be gauged from the pile of notes on my desk. However, I know that the wish of the majority of honorable senators is that the Senate shall adjourn as soon as possible, so I propose to sacrifice my personal desires and cast these notes aside. I shall content myself by reminding the Senate of the conclusions arrived at by the Tariff Board after it had conducted a careful examination of this matter two years ago.

Senator Collings:

– There was no war on then.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

– I realize that, and I shall deal with that point. The conclusions are as follow: -

  1. The evidence before it convinces the board that it would be unwise at present to encourage or to enforce the manufacture of the complete motor vehicle in Australia.

That important recommendation is the foundation and basis of my opposition to this measure.

  1. The evidence suggests that some chassis parts could be manufactured locally without heavy additional cost. The board has, however, not sufficient information to enable such parts to be identified.
  2. The board wishes to express its considered opinion that the present selling-prices of cars in Australia arc far too high, and that special care should be exercised to ensure that efforts to extend the manufacture in Australia do not increase such prices.
  3. The board has not been able to arrive at uniform recommendations regarding the method of exploiting the possibilities mentioned in 2 above, and is, therefore, unable to agree as to the best means of giving effect to the Government’s policy as set out in the terms of reference. The individual views of members on this and other aspects of the report are set out hereunder.

That is signed by the members of the board. I move -

That all the words after “That” be left out,” with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words in the opinion of the Senate the proposal to subsidize the construction of motor car engines in Australia should be referred to the Tariff Board for re-consideration in the light of present world conditions “.

As we are at war it might be desirable to support the measure, but the tribunal which should decide that point is the Tariff Board. I am not prepared to act solely on the advice of the Government, and I have therefore moved the amendment.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Western Australia

– Although this is a subject of some age I deplore the fact that the Government has seen fit to introduce this measure at the close of this period of the session. The subject is too far reaching to be dealt with in a few minutes. As was stated by Senator Johnston, the whole matter should be referred back to the Tariff Board for further investigation. Most of the opinions we have before us are at least two years old, and are therefore quite out of. date. In addition, the Tariff Board is opposed to the manufacture of engines in Australia. Two members of the board,

Messrs. Guy and Kelly, gave the following reasons why the bounty should not be paid : -

In conclusion we desire to emphasize two points made in the main report -

1 ) That the big investment of capital and the employment of 50,000 people in the motor car industry in Australia demand that care be taken no further to restrict business lest unemployment and loss should result.

That the price of cars is already too high, being twice that charged in the United States of America (both expressed in the same currency), this tends to retard business and impose heavy costs on transport.

In connexion with (2) above, we consider relief should be given where possible, and nothing should be done to make present conditions worse.

That opinion was expressed on the 6th September, 1937, which is the approximate date on which the information given to the Senate is based. I remind those honorable senators representing States in which component parts of motor car bodies are made - particularly New South Wales, Victoria and South. Australia - that this huge motor industry employs 50,000 persons. It may be argued that the proposed new industry will substantially increase employment in some quarters. It is estimated that an additional 6,000 employees will be required, and although that may be so, there is another side to the picture. Those persons already employed in connexion with the importation of engines and chassis also total a considerable number, particularly in three States. It may be argued that the increased employment resulting from the manufacture of engines is not going to disturb those men already employed in connexion with chassis and bodies; but I draw the attention of my South Australian colleagues to the fact that the establishment of a motor chassis industry may have an important effect upon the motor body industry in that State, because it does not follow that the company which establishes this industry is going to purchase from other factories components of the complete motor car. In evidence submitted to the Tariff Board, Mr. French, the general manager in Australia of the Ford Motor Company, a most efficient technician, said that the Ford Company’s experience when starting their English works was that they should undertake the complete job. In other words, they would not buy bodies, batteries, radiator cores or other accessories from other factories; one huge enterprise would undertake the complete work. If that were done here many of the firms established in Australia, and their employees, would have something to say in the matter. This is not a suitable time to establish this industry in Australia. In addition there is also this fact to be considered: Australia is probably reaching the saturation point in the matter of motor car sales. According to the report published in 1936, it would appear that that point has been already reached. On page 9 of the Tariff Board’s report the following paragraph appears:-

A confidential review made by a large firm interested in sale of equipment for cars sums up the position in “these words (written on the 14th September, 1936) : - The fact that Australia’s limited population with only 532,706 adult male breadwinners and 54,391 females with incomes of £4 a week and over has to-day in service 493,481 cars and 172,467 commercial vehicles, in all 665,948 units, indicates that saturation point, as far as increase in number of owners is concerned, must be nearly reached.

Senator Aylett:

– Half of them should be scrapped.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:

– Yes. Since 1936 many new types of motor cars have been placed on the market. Recently a friend of mine who returned from America told me that in Los Angeles there are in second-hand shops and junk stores models which have not yet been seen in Australia. As there are other urgent matters demanding the attention of the Government, I am opposed to its energies being directed towards the establishment of a new industry, particularly as the Tariff Board has reported against the proposal. On more than one occasion reports on this project have been referred back to the Board for further consideration, owing to the difference of opinions expressed not only by those giving evidence, but also by members of the board itself. Earlier in the day I said that the Government would be rendering a much greater service to the community if it expended the £150,000 which is proposed to be used on this venture on the construction of ships, which are so urgently needed. We have no guarantee that that money is still available. The sumof £1,250,000 hasbeen collected by means of the impost on motor chassis, but that does not alter the fact that more important matters require the attention of the Government. This measure could well be deferred until a more appropriate time, and until the Senate has more up-to-date information than it now possesses.

Senator Ashley:

– The honorable senator did not say that when he was in the Ministry.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD The matter was not decided then. This project is a very ancient child of Sir Henry Gullett, and his re-admission to the Cabinet goes a long way towards explaining the introduction of the bill. I ask honorable senatorsto support the amendment submitted by Senator Johnston. The cost of motor cars is 100 per cent, higher in Australia than in the UnitedStates in terms ofthe same currency, but, if this bill becomes law, motor cars will cost still more in Australia, and the primary producers, who cannot pass on increased costs, will have to bear the brunt of the higher price of cars due to the establishment of this new industry. This proposal requires more consideration than has been given to it in the short time for which it has been before the Senate.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– I regret that time will not permit of a full discussion on this bill. I have always supported the principle which is embodied in it, and I have not altered my opinion. I shall vote for the measure to-night.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- In. view of the fact that the session is about to close I shallnotdiscussed this matter at length. How thebill could have the effect of increasing the cost of motor cars in Australia I fail to comprehend. It provides, not for a duty, but for a bounty. It will not add to the cost of any motor car imported into this country. There is no justification for the suggestion that the measure would have the effect of putting men out of employment because of increased prices. The Government will pay no bounty unless motor car engines are made in Australia. In my opinion, the effect of the bounty will be to reduce the cost of motor cars. It is not necessary to appeal to the Tariff

Board to find out how long the war will last, or whether shipping space for the importation of motor cars made overseas will be available.

Senator ALLAN MACDONALD:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP; LP from 1944

– Why have a Tariff Board at all?

Senator LECKIE:

– We appeal to this body in times of peace, but we are now at war. If we cannot get motor cars from overseas, it may be possible to induce manufacturers to make them in our own country. The manufacture of a motor car engine in Australia would be no extraordinary achievement, but it willbe necessary for the engine to be part of a complete motor car. If I desired to criticize the bill my method of approach would be to point out that some manufacturer might design an engine costing £30, produce 20,000 such engines, and collect the bounty, without having to sell his product at all.

Senator McBRIDE:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

– The Government cannot possibly accept this amendment. It does not agree with Senator Johnston and Senator Allan MacDonald with regard to the probable effect of the bill, because, as Senator Leckie has pointed out, it provides for a bounty and not for a duty. I suggest that the probable result of the manufacture of complete motor cars in this country will be to reduce rather than to increase the price of them. Those who will undertake the manufacture of cars, and those who have discussed this matter with the Government, consider that in order to overcome the prejudice which must be anticipated against an Australian-made car in the initial stage, it will be necessary to sell it at a price below that of an imported car. Whilst the imposition of a duty might well cause the price in Australia to rise, a bounty would have the opposite effect.

Question put -

That the words proposed to be left out (Senator E. B. Johnston’s amendment) be left out.

The Senate divided. (The President - Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes.)

AYES: 2

NOES: 25

Majority … . . 23

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Original question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 23 agreed to.

Schedule.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- There is a large number of component parts set out in this schedule and it seems to me feasible that some manufacturers may not manufacture the whole range of parts. Can the Minister say who will get the bounty - the manufacturer who makes them or the manufacturer who assembles them?

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– The bounty will be payable to the manufacturer who assembles the units.

Senator Keane:

– ‘The bounty will be payable on the complete engine?

Senator McBRIDE:

– Yes.

Schedule agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2565

DEFENCE BILL (No. 3) 1939

Bill received from the House of

Representatives.

Standing- and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Secondreading.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read asecond time.

By virtue of the provisions of section 31 of the Defence Act every officer appointed to, and every soldier enlistedin, the 2nd Australian Imperial Force is a member of the Permanent Military Forces. Also, soldiers enlisted in the various garrison battalions in Australia for the duration of the war for the purpose of releasing members of the regular Permanent Military Forces are likewise members of the . Permanent Military Forces. Under the Superannuation Act these officers and soldiers are liable and eligible to contribute to the fund. established under that act and may thus become entitled to receive benefits under it. The inclusion of such persons is alien to the scheme of the act, which is designed to make provision for persons in the service of the Commonwealth in a strictly permanent capacity. The inclusion of the officers and soldiers of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force might result in serious embarrassment to. the fund. The present bill proposes, therefore, to provide that the officers and soldiers in question shall not be deemed to be employees within the meaning of the Superannuation Act, and, therefore, shall not be liableto contribute or beeligible for benefits thereunder.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 (Permanent Forces).

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– This clause excludes soldiers who enlist in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force from benefits under theSuperannuation Act. I shall be glad to have an assurance from the Minister that it is the intention, as I think it is the desire, of the Government to give to soldiers greater benefits than those prescribed by the Superannuation Act.

Senator FOLL:
Minister’ for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– As the honorable senator is probably aware, soldiers , come under the provisions of the ‘Repair riation Act. But members of ‘the Public Service who enlist will, upon their return and re-entry to the Public Service, again - come under the Superannuation Act.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Western Australia

.- Wh What will be the position of those members of the Public Service who enlist ? .

Senator Foll:

– Their rights will be conserved while serving in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force.

Clause agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; re port adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2566

POSTAL BATES (DEFENCE FORCES) BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by SenatorMcBride) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of the measure is to provide for reduced rates of postage on mail matter addressed to, or posted by, members of the Defence Forces of theCommonwealth. The proposed rates represent an appreciablereducation of the normal rates of postage, and will apply to mail matter addressed to members of the Commonwealth Forces both at home and abroad, as well as to mail matter posted in Australia by members of the Commonwealth Forces to’ addresses within the Commonwealth. It is not practicable to regulate by local legislation the rates of postage which would apply to mail matter posted by members of the Commonwealth Forces on service abroad. That is the function of the country in which the troops are located. Naturally, however, every effort will be made to secure special postal facilities for Australian troops on service beyond the Commonwealth. The bill is essentially a war measure, and provision is therefore made in clause7 for the withdrawal of the special facilities by proclamation at a suitable date after the termination of the war.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2566

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

The following bills were returned from the House of Representatives without amendment : -

Wheat Industry (War-time Control) Bill 1939.

Northern Territory (Administration) Bill 1938.

Seat of Government (Administration) Bill 1938.

page 2566

SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT BILL (No. 3) 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by SenatorFoll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for the Interior · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Honorable senators will notice that this measure affects a very minor and noncontentious variation of the Supply and Development Act. The section which it amends authorizes the Government to establish aircraft factories. We now propose to add to this authority the power to purchase buildings or establishments for the same purpose.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2566

COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC SERVICE BILL (No. 2) 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McLeay) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McLEAY (South Australia -

Minister for Commerce) [8.35]. - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to amend sections 50 and 72 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act 1922-1937.

I regret that it has not been found practicable to proceed with the whole of the bill which was passed recently by the Senate, but it has been decided, on the ground of urgency, to deal at this stage only with the two sections mentioned, the proposed amendments to which wereincluded in the earlier bill.

The object of clause 3 is to ensure that the right of appeal against promotions in the service, provided by sub-section 6 of section 50 of the principal act, shall not be lost to officers because of their absence from their departments on war service. With regard to clause 4 I remind honorable senators that sub-section 2 of section 72 of the principal act provides for the grant of leave of absence to officers called up in pursuance of the Defence Act for active service in Australia or for active service in the naval forces. Sub-section 4 of the same section provides that the period of absence shall, for all purposes, be included as part of the officers’ period of service under the Public Service Act. Inthe proclamation by the Governor-General published in the Commonwealth Gazette of 2nd September calling out the Citizen Forces, the term “ war service “ is used. As a distinction exists between the) terms “ active service “ and “ war service “, it has been considered advisable to amend sub-section 2 by inserting the word “ war “ instead of “active” and thus bring the provisions of the sub-section into line with the terms of the proclamation by the GovernorGeneral.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its’ remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2567

CANVAS AND DUCK BOUNTY BILL 1939

Bill received from the House ofRepresentatives.

Standing and. Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Senator McBRIDE:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

.- I move-

That the bill be now reada second time.

The purpose of this bill is to encourage the establishment of the cotton canvas and cotton duck industry in Australia. The cotton-weaving industry has been functioning in Australia for some years. Its range of production is as yet limited, and is confined principally to cotton tweeds, drills and like cloths. The industry has, however, progressed steadily and a stage has now been reached when further expansion may safely be undertaken. The nest step in the local developmental programme is the production of cotton canvas and duck, materials for which the demand in Australia is sufficiently large to warrant economic production. The Tariff Board has exhaustively inquired into the prospects of this new development and has formed the opinion that the manufacture of canvas and duck should be encouraged. The majority of the board considers a dutycumbounty system to be the best method of assisting the industry during the initial stages, and in this the Government concurs.

The purpose of the bill is to provide for the payment, of bounty at the rate of 2½d. per lb., plus1d. a square yard on all cotton canvas and cotton duck produced for sale within the Commonwealth. The bill will not operate until production of canvas and duck on a commercial scale is undertaken, and will continue for a period of three years, the intention being that bounty payments shall ultimately be superseded by protective duties as the industry progresses. Concurrently with the operation of the bounty the existing revenue duties applicable to imported canvas and duck dutiable under Customs Tariff Item 130(b)(1) (a) will be increased to l½d. a square yard British preferential tariff, 5d. a square yard intermediate tariff, and 6½d. a square yard general tariff. The proposed duties, with the addition of the bounty rate decided upon, represent the measure of assistance which the industry will receive. This assistance, on an average, is equivalent to a little more than 4d. a square yard on cloths of United Kingdom origin and is approximately 7½d. a square yard on cloths of Japanese origin.

In the three years during which the proposedbounty will operate, the additional import duties will yield sufficient revenue to meetbounty payments in full. These duties will not, however, unduly burden the cost of that proportion of Commonwealth requirements of canvas and duck which will need to be imported while the industry is in the developmental stage. It is apparent that the industry, during the early stages of production, will not be in a position to supply even a large share of the Australian market, and that some years must elapse before the full requirements are produced.

The Tariff Board is firmly of the opinion that, if the industry is to be established on sound lines, it should grow steadily, commencing with those lines in large demand and extending as opportunity offers. The proposals of the Government are designed to encourage development in this manner, and it is intended that a review of the industry be made before the bounty period expires. It is anticipated that this industry, when firmly established, will provide employment in spinning and weaving activities for 1,500 hands. The plans of several Australian cotton-weaving establishments for the production of this material are well advanced, and I anticipate that the near future will see production well in hand. I should like to make it clear that the proposals which I have outlined relate only to canvas and duck woven wholly from cotton, and do not embrace other types such as flax or jute canvas and duck. This bill marks a further important step in the development of the Australian textile industry, and I, therefore, commend it to honorable senators.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– The Country party has always preferred the bounty method of assistance for the encouragement of new industries to the old practice of imposing prohibitive duties. As this measure gives effect to that principle, I heartily support it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its. remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2568

AIR FORCE BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed from page 2561 on motion by Senator Foll -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Senator COLLINGS:
QueenslandLeader of the Opposition

– Now that this short bill has -been circulated and we have had an opportunity to examine it, we do not propose to offer any objection to its passage. The Opposition in the House of Representatives was able to improve the measure considerably.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2568

TYRE CORD BOUNTY BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE (South Australia-

Assistant Minister for Commerce) [8.51]. - I move -

That the bill benow read a second time.

This bill is intended to foster in the Commonwealth the manufacture of cord and cord fabric of the type used in the manufacture of pneumatic tyres for vehicles. A Tariff Board report indicates justification for an effort to establish this industry in Australia. In order to assist the industry, it recommends the payment of bounty at the rate of 3½d. per lb. on tyre cord and fabric produced in Australia and sold to manufacturers of pneumatic lyres. The board’s recommendation also involves - (a.) admission of the imported material, at the outset, at rates of free British and 15 per cent. general;

  1. a reduction in the rate of bounty to 3d. per lb. when total bounty pay ments exceed the sum of £5,000 or, in other words, when local production reaches the 350,000 lb. stage;
  2. concurrently with the reduction of the rate of bounty, the customs duties to be increased to½d. per lb. British, and 2¾d. per lb. general.

Subsequent to the date of the Tariff Board’s report, the Government decided, for revenue purposes, to increase the customs duty on imported tyre cord and fabric. That increase formed part of the 1939-40 Budget proposals and operated from the 9th September last, the customs duties, including primage duty, on the material now being 10 per cent. British, 30 per cent. intermediate, and 35 per cent. general.

The board’s recommendations will be followed, in principle, by the Government, but in view of the increased duties now operating, some reduction of the bounty rate has been deemed necessary in order to aline the total assistance accorded to the industry with that recommended by the Tariff Board.

Provision is made in the bill for payment of bounty at the rate of 2¼d. per lb. on tyre cord and tyre cord fabric produced in the Commonwealth, the total bounty payments during the first year to be limited to £3,250. When bounty payments reach that figure - in other words, when production exceeds 350,000 lb. - the rate of bounty will be reduced by½d. to1¾d. per lb. and the existing customs duties increased at the same timeby½d. per lb.

Tyre cord and tyre cord fabric of a satisfactory quality must be produced on a commercial basis before the bill will operate. Bounty will continue for a period of three years, prior to the expiration of which the question of the assistance to the industry will be reviewed.

The total amount of bounty payable under the bill is limited to £3,250 in the first year, £11,000 in the second year, and £27,000 in the third year of the scheme. It is anticipated that these amounts will be quite sufficient to meet all bounty claims, as the industry must necessarily develop gradually. The scheme envisages the production under a bounty-cum-duty system of one-half of the Commonwealth requirements of this material within three years from the establishment of the industry.

It is intended that the proposed bounty payments shall be met partly from the increased duties to be imposed on imported cords and fabric and partly from revenue. The halfpenny duty increase contemplated is so moderate, however, that it will not unduly raise the cost of that proportion of Australian requirements which will need to be imported during the establishment stages of the industry. The object of the bill is to provide for a further expansion of Australian cotton spinning and weaving activities, and I therefore commend it to honorable senators.

Senator McBRIDE:
UAP

– In Melbourne.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2569

CUSTOMS TARIFF VALIDATION BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBeide) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to validate until the 6th June, 1940, the duties embodied in Customs Tariff Proposals No. 15 of the 6th December, 1939. In view of the fact that honorable senators have not had sufficient time to consider these proposals fully, the Government has decided that it would be preferable, in the interests of all concerned, to defer the debate until Parliament meets again. I therefore urge honorable Senators to accept the bill without debate.

Senator COLLINGS:
QueenslandLeader of the Opposition

– Do I understand that, in accordance with the provisions of clause 3, Parliament will later be given a full opportunity to debate the items?

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– At this stage of the session there is no alternative to accepting this bill. I hope, however, that the fact that the duties are being validated until the 6th June next year does not mean that the Government intends to keep Parliament in recess until about that time. Without going into the subject at any length, I am definitely of the opinion that Parliament should meet frequently during the war period.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill- read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate.

page 2570

CUSTOMS TARIFF (EXCHANGE ADJUSTMENT) VALIDATION BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE:
South AustraliaAssistant Minister for Commerce · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now rend a second time.

The bill seeks to validate, until the 6th June, 1940, the amendments proposed in respect of the Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Act 1933-1939 and embodied in Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Proposals No. 7 introduced on the 6th December, 1939. The bill is complementary to the Customs Tariff Validation Bill, which honorable members have just passed.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without requests’ or debate.

page 2570

CUSTOMS TARIFF (CANADIAN PREFERENCE) VALIDATION BILL 1939

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator McBride) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator McBRIDE:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of the measure is to validate until the 6th June, 1940, the duties embodied in Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) Proposals No. 5 introduced into the House of Representatives on the 6th December, 1939. In view of the fact that honorable senators have had such a short time to study the proposals, it is considered desirable to postpone consideration of them until the Senate reassembles.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a/ second time, and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate.

page 2570

LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO HONORABLE SENATORS

Motion (by Senator McLeay) - by leave - agreed to -

That leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the determination of the sitting this day to the day on which the Senate next meets.

page 2570

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Senator McLeay) proposed -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till a day and hour to be fixed by the President, which time of meeting shall be notified to each Senator by telegram or letter.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

. - In view of the abnormal conditions prevailing, I trust that, in fixing the day on which the Senate shall next meet, the Government will bear in mind a request already made by my colleagues from Western Australia and other honorable senators that the Senate shall re-assemble on the day on which the House of Representatives next meets. For the reason stated, it is very desirable that the two Houses should reassemble on the same day.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2570

ADJOURNMENT

Valedictory - Answers to Questions

Senator McLEAY:
Minister for Commerce · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

On behalfof myself and my colleagues, I extend to you, Mr. President, cordial Christmas greetings. I also desire to pay a special tribute to you for the impartial and capable manner in which you have presided over this chamber. To our esteemed colleague, the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings), the Chairman of Committees (Senator James McLachlan) and the members of the Senate staff I offer seasonal greetings. The closing days of this period of the session have been strenuous, and I am grateful to honorable senators generally for the tolerance they have displayed while we have been disposing of a very heavy volume of business.

Senator COLLINGS:
QueenslandrLeader of the Opposition

– I endorse the good wishes which have been expressed to you, Mr. President, the Chairman of Committees and the Senate staff generally. On behalf of the Opposition I particularly wish to tender to you, sir, our thanks for the courtesy which you have extended to us. If we have at times been somewhat severely treated we know that you have honestly believed that we have deserved it. I also extend to honorable senators generally cordial seasonal greetings, and express the hope that they will spend a happy Christmas so far as that is possible in existing world conditions. We can hardly say that this is the end of a perfect day; but at least it is a perfect ending to this day.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- Will the Leader of the Senate (Senator McLeay) arrange that answers to questions which have not yet been supplied to honorable senators owingto the urgency of other business, shall be forwarded to us as soon as possible?

Senator McLeay:

– Yes.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
Western Australia

– The members of the Country party in this chamber wish to be associated with the seasonal greetings which have been expressed by the Leader of the Senate (Senator McLeay) and the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings). I thank you, Mr. President, for the fair and impartial manner in which you have presided over this chamber. I also thank the Leader of the

Senate (Senator McLeay) and his colleagues for their consideration to the members of the party to which I belong. I am sure that this chamber has never had a more courteous and capable leader. I also offer my best wishes to our friend the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) who, although a political opponent, is our personal friend, and I congratulate him upon the vivacity and versatility he has displayed in carrying out the important duties which he has to perform. I extend that appreciation to other honorable senators of the Opposition. I also thank the officials of the Senate and the members of the Hansard staff for their good work, and for the assistance that they have given to members of all parties. On behalf of the Country party, I wish everybody in the Senate the compliments of the festive season, and a prosperous New Year.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. J. B. HAYES) [9.16].- I express to the Leader of the Senate (Senator McLeay), the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings), and Senator Johnston, who spoke on behalf of the Country party, my thanks for their kind words. I heartily reciprocate the sentiments expressed by them. I have done my best to uphold the dignity of the Chair, and I realize that I have much cause to be grateful for the agreeable attitude of honorable senators towards me. I associate myself cordially with the remarks of Senator Johnston in thanking all officers of the House, including the Hansard staff, for their loyal and capable service. I wish every one present a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2571

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. -

No. 28 of 1939 - Commonwealth Public Service Artisans’ Association.

No. 29 of 1939 - Australian Third Division Telegraphists and Postal Clerks’ Union.

No. 30 of 1939 - Australian Third Division Telegraphists and Postal Clerks’ Union.

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment - Prime Minister’s Department - L. J. Rogers.

Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act -Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 23- Oaths.

No. 24 - Evidence (No. 2).

No. 25 - Licensing.

No. 26 - (Workmen’s Compensation (No. 2).

Scat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 13- Walter Oswald Watt Memorial Fund.

No. 14 - Industrial Board.

Nauru - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 4 - Appropriation (Supplementary) 1938.

No. 5 - Nauruan Royalty Trust Fund Appropriation (Supplementary) 1938.

No.6 - Licences.

No. 7 - Defence.

No. 8 -Wireless Censorship.

No. 9 - Postal Censorship.

No. 10 - Defence (No. 2).

Papua Act - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 8 - Supplementary Appropriation 1938-1939.

No. 12 - Appropriation 1939-1940.

Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired at - Inglewood, Western Australia - For

Postal purposes.

Lismore, New South Wales - For Postal purposes.

International Labour Organization of the League of Nations - Twenty-fifth Session, held at Geneva, 8th to 28th June. 1939 - Draft Conventions and Recommendations adopted.

The Budget 1939-40 (Revised). - Papers presented by the Honorable P. C. Spender, K.C., M.P.. in connexion with the revision of the Budget 1939-40.

Senate adjourned at 9.7 p.m. till a date and hour to be fixed by the President.

page 2572

QUESTION

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

The following answers to questions were circulated : -

Ingleburn Military Camp

  1. What is the area of Ingleburn Military Camp?
  2. Has the Government purchased the land?
  3. If so, what was the purchase price paid?
  4. Who were the owners?
  5. Who were the agents?
  6. Have payments been finalized and, if so, on what date?
  1. Approximately 1,000 acres.
  2. No.
  3. 4, 5 and6. See reply to No. 2. 2nd Australian Imperial Force Officers.
  1. How many non-commissioned officers of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force have been granted commissions?
  2. What are the numbers of such appointments in each State?
  1. Nineteen to date.
  2. New South Wales, 5; Victoria, 13; Western Australia, 1.

Australian Imperial Force - Enlistment in Militia.

  1. What is the number of ex-Australian Imperial Force members enlisted for various duties ?
  2. Was the number enlisted sufficient to perform the allotted duties?
  3. How many have been discharged from the forces?
  4. Is it proposed to continue enlisting former members of the Australian Imperial Force to keep the forces at their maximum strength ?

Militia Training

Leckie asked if an indication could be given of the date on which the Militia Forces would go into camp for the three months’ training period. I have been informed by the Minister for the Army that the dates of Unit Camps have not yet been fixed but it is expected that an announcement will be made within a few days.

Commonwealth of Australia to wit.

Gowrie

Governor-General

By His Excellency the Governor-General in and over the Commonwealth ofAustralia.

WHEREASbytheConstitutionoftheCommonwealthofAustraliaitis amongstotherthingsenactedthattheGovernor-Generalmayappoint such times for holding the Sessions of the Parliament as he thinks fit, and also from time to time, by Proclamation or otherwise, prorogue the Parliament : Now therefore I, Alexander Gore Arkwright, Baron Gowrie, the GovernorGeneral aforesaid in exercise of the power conferred by the said Constitution, do by this my Proclamation prorogue the said Parliament until Wednesday, the seventeenth day of April, One thousand nine hundred and forty, or (in the event of circumstances, at present unforeseen, arising which render it expedient that the said Parliament should be summoned to assemble at a date earlier than the said Wednesday, the seventeenth day of April, One thousand nine hundred and forty) to such earlier date as is fixed by a Proclamation summoning the said Parliament to assemble and be holden for the despatch of business: Furthermore I do appoint the said Wednesday, the seventeenth day of April, One thousand nine hundred and forty, or such earlier date (if any) as is fixed by Proclamation, as the day for the said Parliament to assemble and be holden for the despatch of business. And all Senators and Members of the House of Representatives are hereby required to give their attendance accordingly, in the building known as the Houses of Parliament, Canberra, at three o'clock p.m., on the said Wednesday, the seventeenth day of April, One thousand nine hundred and forty, or, in the event of an earlier date being fixed by Proclamation, at three o'clock p.m. on the date so fixed. (l.s.) Given under my Hand and the Seal of the Commonwealth at Canberra, this Fourteenth day of March in the year of Our Lord One thousand nine hundred and forty, and in the fourth year of His Majesty's reign. By His Excellency's Command, {: .page-start } page 2573 {:#debate-41} ### ROBERT G. MENZIES {:#subdebate-41-0} #### Prime Minister

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 8 December 1939, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1939/19391208_senate_15_162/>.

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