Senate
2 December 1938

15th Parliament · 1st Session



The President (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.

page 2573

CONVENTION BETWEEN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND GREECE

Senator McLEAY:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · South AustraliaVicePresident of the Executive Council · UAP

– I lay on the table of the Senate a copy of the convention between His Majesty in respect of ‘the United Kingdom and His Majestythe King of the Hellenes regarding legal proceedings in civil and commercial matters, which was signed in London on the 27th February, 1936. His Majesty’s accession to the convention in respect of the ‘Commonwealth, including the Territories of Papua and Norfolk Island and the Mandated Territories of New Guinea and Nauru, was notified to the Greek Government on the 14th November, 1938, and will take effect as from the 14th December, 1938.

page 2573

QUESTION

UNEMPLOYMENT

Senator KEANE:
through Senator Collings

asked the Leader of the Senate, upon notice -

Willhe supply a statement showing the unemployment figures for each of the past four months ended the 15th November, 1938?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– Inquiries are being made, and a reply will be furnished as soon as possible.

page 2573

SILENT TELEPHONES

Senator KEANE (through Senator

Collings) asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

How many silent telephones are in use in each State?

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– The PostmasterGeneral has supplied the following answer : -

There are over 500,000 subscribers’ telephone services installed in the Commonwealth.

page 2573

QUESTION

PEARL SHELL INDUSTRY

Senator COLLETT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT; UAP from 1937

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the pearling industry at Broome, and its alleged perilous financial position, has been inquired into by the Commonwealth Government as a result of repeated representations made by members of this Parliament and others?
  2. If so, was not the need disclosed for a substantial monetary advance on shell stored or exported on consignment?
  3. Is it a fact that there are in sight no less than 350 tons of shell against which an advance of £30,000 has been requested, and that, thus far, only £14,000 has been granted, which sum was exhausted early in September.
  4. Is the Government in receipt of urgent representations upon the subject from the Premier of Western Australia; if so, what action does it propose to take to save this important industry from collapse?
Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Minister without portfolio, assisting the Treasurer · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP

– The Treasurer has supplied the following answers : - 1 and 2. The position is at present being inquired into.

  1. The Commonwealth Government understands that this is the position.
  2. The Government is in receipt of representations upon the subject from the Premier of Western Australia, and is considering these representations. A decision will be made within the next few days.

page 2573

QUESTION

ALIEN MIGRATION

Senator CAMERON:
Postmaster-General · VICTORIA · CP

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that Australia continues to lose population of British stock, and that in nine months, ended September, there has been a loss of 1,192 persons?
  2. If. so, is it a fact that such loss is due mainly to the increasing influx into Australia of cheaper foreign labour?
  3. If so, what steps, if any, does the Government propose to take to remedy this state of affairs ?
Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– The Prime Minister has supplied the following answers : -

  1. The returns for the period stated show a loss of 1,192 by British migration from Australia.
  2. No.
  3. See answer to (2). All aliens are required to obtain landing permits before being admitted to Australia. Every application is dealt with on its merits, and care is taken to see that approval is given only in cases where the applicants are likely to be absorbed in trades or occupations without detriment to Australian workers. Since the resumption in March last of assisted migration from the United Kingdom, 4,638 nominations for assisted passages have been approved. It is hoped that in the near future the net balance of immigration as between the United Kingdom and Australia will be in Australia’s favour.

page 2574

QUESTION

NATIONAL HEALTH AND PENSIONS INSURANCE

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
UAP

– On the 1st December, 1938, Senator Cameron asked the Minister representing the Treasurer the following questions, upon notice : -

  1. Is it a fact that the Government has engaged the services of Mr. Balmford, of the Government Actuary’s Department, London, for the purpose of preparing financial estimates for the national insurance scheme?
  2. If so, what amount in salary will Mr. Balmford be paid, and for what period has he been engaged?
  3. Did the Government make any effort to obtain the services of any person similarly qualified in Australia, prior to engaging Mr. Balmford; if not, why not?

The Treasurer has now supplied the following answers : -

  1. and 2. Mr. Balmford has been permanently appointed to the position of Commonwealth Actuary, Department of the Treasury, at a salary of £1,730 per annum.
  2. Yes, the Government satisfied itself that there were no actuaries available in Australia with the necessary qualifications and experience.

page 2574

AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS’ REPATRIATION BILL 1938

Bill brought up by Senator Foll

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill read a first time.

page 2574

MOTOR INDUSTRY BOUNTY BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This measure makes provision for the payment of bounty on such parts of motor vehicles as are specified in the schedule. It will be noted that the only goods specified in the schedule are radiator assemblies when intended for use as original equipment for motor vehicles. Other motor vehicle parts, which may be manufactured in Australia in the future, and in respect of which the Government decides to extend encouragement by means of bounty, may be added to the schedule by parliamentary approval. As the bill refers specifically only to radiator assemblies, I shall confine my remarks to those goods. The Tariff Board, in a report dated the 8th September, 1938, recommended the payment of a bounty of 10s. each on radiator assemblies, for use as original equipment for motor vehicles, for a period of two years, after which the bounty should be replaced by a duty. The members of the Tariff Board were divided in their views as to the ultimate action which should be taken to establish the radiator manufacturing industry. They all agreed, however, on the principle of payment of a bounty at the outset. The Government has approved of the payment of bounty, as recommended by the Tariff Board, for a period of two years, and proposes to invite the board to report again within two years as to the best means of securing the continuance of the industry in Australia on a sound basis.

Owing to the wide diversity of types of. radiator assemblies required for the Australian market, it is considered that it would not be appropriate in this case to give protection by duty in the early stages, as it would be impossible for any manufacturer to prepare the necessary dies, and produce within a reasonable period, the wide range of radiators required. The immediate imposition of protective duties would be embarrassing both to the Australian radiator manufacturers and to the motor industry in general. A bounty during the initial years will enable motor chassis importers, after the local product has been subjected to comprehensive tests, to arrange for future long range supplies to be obtained from Australian sources. In the meantime these importers will be able to import their requirements without additional costs. The bill covers radiators for original equipment only. The manufacture of radiators for replacement purposes has been carried on in Australia for many years, and will continue under the existing net duties of 33¾ per cent., British preferential tariff, and 65 per cent., general. Entirely different methods are required to produce original equipment radiators, at a price approximating the present costs to chassis assemblers, and that cannot be achieved under the system adopted for the manufacture of replacement radiators. The Australian plant which has already been installed is equal to overseas standards in efficiency, and is capable of producing radiators on mass production lines.

In its report, the Tariff Board suggested that certain duties should be brought into operation at the expiration of the bounty. As the production of radiators for original equipment had not commenced at the time when the board submitted, its report, the duties recommended by it could have no relation to exact costs of production. The Government cansidered that it would be more desirable to have before it the results of at least the first year’s actual manufacturing operations before determining what amount of protection should subsequently be accorded. Australian manufacturers of motor chassis parts have, in the past, been confronted with the practice adopted by overseas suppliers, when not supplying the relative parts, of deducting from the invoice a deletion value only, and not the cost of manufacture. The Australian radiator manufacturer will also have to contend with this practice, which makes some form of assistance to the Australian manufacturer all the more necessary. Although the radiator assembly does not represent a major portion of the cost of that section of the motor chassiswhich is at present being imported into Australia, its manufacture in Australia provides an initial step towards the fulfilment of the Government’s desire to bring about the manufacture in Australia of the complete motor car. I trust that in the near future proposals for the manufacture of other motor vehicle parts, including the engines, will be placed before the Government.

As I pointed out, when making a statement regarding the policy of the Government in respect of the construction of the complete unit in Australia, the Government, following the advice of the Tariff Board, asked the Parliament to grant this bounty in respect of radiators as a step in the direction of granting bounty assistance in respect of other parts, as this becomes necessary from time to time. Honorable senators are aware that the Government has extended to the 31st March next the period within which manufacturers in Australia or principals or representatives of overseas firms may submit to the Government proposals with regard to the granting of a bounty for the manufacture of the complete unit in Australia. That is the ultimate desire of the Government, and it has decided to invite offers from industrialists on the basis of either step-by-step or complete manufacture. I am sure that honorable senators on both sides of the chamber hope and believe that this will lead ultimately to the manufacture of the complete unit in this country.

Debate (on motion by Senator

Collings) adjourned.

page 2575

AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS’ REPATRIATION BILL 1938

Second Reading

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation and Health · Queensland · UAP

.- I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

For many years the Repatriation Commission has been authorized to hold and administer on behalf of the member in such manner as it thinks fit, the war pensions payable to those unfortunate unmarried ex-soldiers who are afflicted with lunacy. This duty was entrusted to the Repatriation Commission in 1922 by an addendum to the fourth schedule of the Australian Soldiers’ Repatriation Act. The Commission retains all such moneys in special trust accounts for each individual pensioner, invests the moneys in approved securities, and credits the account with the income and proceeds of such investments. The moneys to the credit of the account have been expended in various ways -

  1. by the provision of comforts, clothing, and other forms of assistance, to the pensioners themselves; and
  2. by making regular allowances to the parents or other indigent and deserving relatives of the pensioners.

When the addendum mentioned was introduced, it was also thought that it would empower the Repatriation Commission to administer moneys remaining to the credit of such trust accounts after the decease of the pensioner, but some doubt has arisen as to whether or not such addendum does, in fact, achieve that objective. Doubt also arises as to whether the making of allowances to parents or other relatives is in fact an administration on behalf of the member, in accordance with the terms of that addendum. The purpose of the bill is to clear up those anomalies and to define the position clearly. Opportunity is also being taken to extend similar powers to the commission in respect of those married men similarly afflicted, whose wives’ pensions have been cancelled under the provisions of section 37 of the act. There are fortunately very few of such latter cases, but it is confidently felt that in such instances the obligation rests on the Government to protect the rights of children and other deserving relatives. Some of these unfortunate pensioners have now accumulated substantial credits in their respective trust accounts, and the Government feels that the law relating to estates should not be permitted to operate in favour of some close relative who is of substantial means, or who, by reason of distance of residence or complete indifference, has never interested himself in the pensioner’s welfare during his lifetime, to the disadvantage of a deserving and perhaps indigent relative who has for many years taken an active interest in the welfare of the pensioner. If the law as at present enacted prevents the commission from continuing an allowance to an indigent deserving relative after the death of the pensioner, the Government feels that the position should be clarified.

The bill provides: (a) that the Repatriation Commission shall have power to retain, expend and invest the pensions payable to all such unmarried pensioners, and to such married pensioners, in those cases in which the pension payable to the wife has been cancelled under section 37 of the act; (b) that the commission shall have power to expend such moneys towards providing clothing and comforts to the pensioner,’ towards payment of allowances to any member of the pensioner’s family in necessitous circumstances, and towards the cost of maintenance of the member while an inmate of an institution. This is in accordance with the present practice and it will be seen that the amount applied to cost of maintenance cannot exceed one-half of the total pension. This means no more than the making of a book entry which has no effect on the war pension vote, but does relieve the vote for maintenance of departmental institutions. Reference to the bill will show that, on the recovery of the pensioner, the commission is to render him an account and refund to him all moneys retained by it, less those expended on comforts or other . benefits for the pensioner or by way of allowances to his parents or other relatives. Such refund will include the amount applied to cost of maintenance. Similarly, on the death of the pensioner, the whole amount retained, including the amount applied to cost of maintenance . but less advances of the kind previously referred to, may be made available either by continuing allowances already in payment to deserving relatives by the making of further allowances, or by such other manner of distribution as the commission may decide.

The object of the bill is to provide for the relatives of these unfortunate men in a manner consistent with what the pensioner himself might reasonably be expected to provide were he competent to do so.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 (Short title and citation).

Senator COLLETT:
Western Australia

– Is the object of the bill to remove the control of the estate of these unfortunate soldiers from the Master in Lunacy?

Senator Foll:

– The accumulated pension will be under the control of the Repatriation Commission.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 (Pension of member afflicted with lunacy).

Senator COLLETT:
Western Australia

– Does the residue of the estate of an unmarried returned soldier without relatives, who is an inmate of a public institution, revert to the Crown?

SenatorFOLL (Queensland - Minister for Repatriation) [11.23.].- After the expiration of a certain period, if no application has been made for the residue, it will,I assume, revert to the Crown. It will always bo available in the event of a deserving relative submitting a bona fide claim.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– I direct the attention of the Minister to paragraph c of proposed new section 40 (2)-

The moneys retained by the Commission in accordance with this section, and the interest on any moneys invested by the Commission, may be applied towards -

The cost of maintenance of the member while he is an inmate of an institution.

In what way and from what fund are such pensioners at present maintained in government institutions ?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– The cost is defrayed from a fund provided for the maintenance of returned soldiers in public institutions. The cost of maintenance is not a charge upon the pension.

Senator WILSON (South Australia) is intended by paragraph b of proposed new section 40 (2) -

The payment of such allowances (if any) as the Commission thinks fit to any members of the family of the member who are in necessitous circumstances.

I have known days to be occupied in the courts in defining what is meant by “members of the family”. Does it include brothers, sisters, father, mother, cousins and nieces ? Probably it is defined in the principal act.

Senator Foll:

– Those words are defined in the definition section of the principal act. The definition is sufficiently wide to enable the Commission to have the power to afford assistance to distant relatives to whom the pensioner would have granted assistance had he been capable of doing so.

Senator COLLINGS:
Queensland

– The previous explanation of the Minister concerning paragraph c is not quite clear. Does he mean that at present the cost of maintaining . an ex-soldier in a public institution is defrayed by the Government ? When this measure becomes law, will such cost.be deducted from the amount of pension held in trust? If that is so it is rather serious.

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– The position is as I stated in my second-reading speech. This provision applies only to unmarried ex-soldiers and to special cases. The cost of maintenance is debited against the pension, but should a patient recover, the amount so deducted will be placed to his credit and he will receive the full amount. In some instances the amount of accumulated pension is considerable, and the commission regards it as fair that one half of the pension should be used to defray the cost of maintaining the pensioner in an institution. As I have already said, however, in the event of his recovery, he will get the whole lot back as though nothing had been debited against his account.

Senator AMOUR:
New South Wales

– I know that returned soldier inmates of the institution at Callan Park, who are now treated in the main building, desire to be transferred to the cottages reserved for returned soldiers. Is the cost to the department the same in respect of an inmate of the main building as in respect of an inmate of the cottages? I, personally, should like to see all of the returned soldiers in these institutions kept together.

Senator BRAND:
Victoria

.- I point out that when I recently visited the Repatriation Mental Hospital at Bundoora, 210 diggers were’ inmates whilst 30 or 40 others are inmates of a large public institution situated about a mile away at Mont Park. Could not those 30 or 40 diggers be transferred to the adjacent military hospital, where they would be with their mates?

Senator LAMP:
Tasmania

.- I have in mind the case of a Tasmanian who is an inmate of a mental institution in Victoria, and whose wife draws a pension. In such a case will the wife’s pension be stopped in order to pay for the husband’s maintenance in that institution?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · Queensland · UAP

– In the case illustrated by Senator Lamp, the wife’s pension will not be stopped. This measure deals solely with cases of unmarried soldiers, or cases in which the wife’s pension has been terminated in pursuance of section 37 of the act.

In reply to Senators Amour and Brand, I may say that recently I visited all of the institutions of this kind under the control of the Repatriation Department, and I found that medical opinion differed concerning the complete segregation of returned soldiers. The practice at present is that all of those men whose affliction is due to war causes are kept together. In most of these institutions the Commonwealth Government has constructed its own buildings for the accommodation of these men, but as it is advisable that their treatment, which at present is very excellent, should be standardized, the State governments administer these wards, and we pay so much for each returned soldier inmate, irrespective of which part of the institution he may be in. Of course, there are in these institutions returned men whose affliction is not due to war causes. On my visit to these institutions, I saw some of the saddest sights that could be imagined, but it is not possible, for the reasons I have given, to place all returned soldier inmates in the one section. They must be treated according to the degree of their affliction. Some patients are allowed considerable freedom, and do such work as gardening, stone work, and basket making, but, of course, there are much sadder cases.

Senator Collett:

– And it is not always in the interests of the other patients to group the sadder cases with them.

Senator FOLL:

– That is so. I repeat that, on my visits to these institutions, I carefully investigated this matter. I assure honorable senators that all of these men are receiving the best attention that can be given to them.

Senator AMOUR:
New SouthWales

– I suggest, not that returned men whose affliction is not due to war causes shouldbe grouped with those cases which are due to such causes, but that all inmates of these institutions who are suffering from shell-shock and other war causes should be kept together. I have visited several of these institutions, and I know that at Callan Park those returned men who are inmates of the main building have asked that they be transferred to the cottages.

Senator Foll:

– I shall bo very pleased to bring the honorable senator’s suggestion under the notice of the commission.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 3 and 4 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2578

SEAT OF GOVERNMENT (ADMINISTRATION) BILL 1933

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The main object of this bill is to clear up certain doubtful points in relation to leases granted in the Australian Capital Territory under the powers conferred by ordinances made in pursuance of the Seat of Government (Administration) Act 1910-1933. During the life of the Federal Capital Commission, no question arose as to the validity of these ordinances, as all lands in the Territory were vested in the commission and ceased, therefore, to be the property of the Commonwealth. Upon the abolition of the commission, however, these lands once more were vested in the Commonwealth, which, in its dealings with land, is hound by the provisions of the Lands Acquisition Act 1906-1934. The provisions of this act are suitable for dealing with ordinary lands within a State of which the Commonwealth is the registered proprietor, but they were never designed to apply to the position that has arisen in the Australian Capital Territory, where the Commonwealth is the holder of the sovereign rights, and is required to operate a land policy and system involving the granting of original titles. A proper system for doing this was laid down and operated by the Federal Capital Commission under ordinances made for the purpose, but the Attorney-General .(Mr. Menzies) has raised some doubt as to whether these ordinances would now stand against the provisions of the Lands Acquisition Act 1906-1934. This measure will remove any uncertainty in regard to the leasehold titles in the Territory, and dealings generally in lands effected under the terms of the several ordinances, either by the Minister, or by the Commissioner for Housing, and, at the same time, validate any transactions that have occurred since the abolition of the Federal Capital Commission in 1930.

Another matter that needs clarification is the commencing dates of ordinances. It has become the practice - to provide that an ordinance shall take effect from a date fixed by means of a notice published in the Gazette, subsequent to the gazettal of the ordinance itself. The question has arisen as to whether this is sufficient compliance with the requirements of the Seat of Government (Administration) Act 1910-1933, which provides that an ordinance shall take effect from the date of its notification in the Gazette, or from a later date specified in the ordinance. As the existing practice is extremely convenient, giving time where required, after the gazettal of an ordinance, to complete regula- tions, or other machinery involved in its working, before actually fixing the date of its operation, it is desirable to make legal provision for continuing the practice, and for validating the commencing dates of any ordinances brought into force in the past in the manner I have indicated. It is also proposed to authorize the Governor-General to make ordinances having a commencing date prior to the date of the notification of the ordinance in the Gazette. This power is at times required to overcome long-standing difficulties which may have necessitated the making of the ordinance.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 (Validation of leases).

Senator WILSON:
South Australia

– In his second-reading speech the Assistant Minister (Senator Allan MacDonald) stated that the object of this measure was to clear up doubts which had arisen as to the validity of certain leases in the Australian Capital Territory. I assume that the reason for this clause is merely to put that beyond question, and not to decide litigation which is now either in progress or pending. I should like to have an assurance from the Assistant Minister that this is not an attempt to prevent any litigant from obtaining his rights.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

, - I assure the honorable senator that so far as the department is aware no litigation is pending. The amendment is designed to clear up the legal difficulties pointed out by the Attorney-General’s Department.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill read a third time.

page 2579

NORTHERN TERRITORY (ADMINISTRATION) BILL 1938

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The principal object of this bill is to remove doubts as to the validity of grants of land and leases of land which have been made under ordinances of the Northern

Territory. Section 57 of the Lands Acquisition Act authorizes the AttorneyGeneral to execute in relation to land instruments and documents to which the Commonwealth is a party. Under the ordinances of the Northern Territory, authorities other than the AttorneyGeneral have executed in relation to land instruments and documents to which the Commonwealth is a party, and having regard to the provisions of the Lands Acquisition Act, the validity of these instruments and documents may be open to question.

In addition to the provisions in relation to land, the bill also purports to provide for the making of ordinances having retrospective effect. At present, an ordinance takes effect from either the date of notification in the Gazette, or a later date specified in the ordinance. It is now proposed that ordinances may take effect from the date of notification or from such date - whether before or after the date of notification-as is specified in the ordinance, or, where the ordinance so provides, from a date notified in the Gazette. As there is also doubt as to the validity of ordinances which have commenced on a date notified in the Gazette, an appropriate provision validating those ordinances is included.

The bill also includes a formal amendment to the principal act in relation to the vesting in the Commonwealth of land which was held by the North Australia Commission.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 -

Section twenty-one of the Principal Act is amended by omitting paragraph (b) of subsection (2.) and inserting in its stead the following paragraph: - “ (b) take effect-

from the date of notification;

where another date (whether before or after the date of notification) is specified in the Ordinance, from the date specified; or

Section proposed to be amended - 21. (1.) Until the Parliament makes other provision . . . the Governor-General may make ordinances having the force of law in and in relation to the Territory. (2.) Every such ordinance shall -

take effect from the date of notification or from a later date to be specified in the ordinance.

Senator WILSON:
South Australia

. - I doubt the wisdom of granting to an administration such as this the power to make retrospective legislation that is contrary to all democratic principles. We live under the laws of the land as they exist at a particular time, and any alteration of such laws to give them retrospective effect interferes with . the rights and obligations of citizens and, therefore, in my opinion, is contrary to the best government. I move -

That the words “whether before or,” subparagraph (ii) of paragraph (b), be left out.

Should the Minister advance sound reasons for the retention of the words, and give me an assurance that the rights and privileges of individuals will not be affected, I may be willing, with the consent of the committee, to withdraw the amendment.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I assure Senator Wilson that there is no intention to deprive any citizen of his rights in connexion with land tenure in the Northern Territory. The clause is designed to assist the smooth running of land administration in the Northern Territory and to clear up the legal doubts which I have already mentioned. There is no suggestion at all that the rights of any land-holders will be interfered with. Many an ordinance contains a provision that it shall commence on a date to be fixed by the Administrator by notice in the Gazette. Under section 21 of the Northern Territory (Administration) Act 1910- 1933, an ordinance takes effect either from the date of its notification in the Gazette or a later date specified in the ordinance. Doubt has arisen as to whether the practice of fixing the date of commencement by means of a notice published in the Gazette is a sufficient compliance with the requirement of the act that the date shall be specified in the ordinance. The practice is, however, extremely convenient in cases in which if is desired that an ordinance shall not come into operation immediately, but should await the completion of certain action necessary to bring the ordinance into operation, as, for example, when it is necessary to provide first for the administrative machinery to give effect to the ordinance. It is considered desirable, therefore, to amend the law so as to authorize the existing practice for the future. Under the act mentioned, it is not possible to make an ordinance which is to take effect from a date prior to its notification in the Gazette. Since, however, ordinances are analogous to acts of Parliament, which may be given unrestricted retrospective effect, it is considered desirable to make provision enabling retrospective effect to be given to ordinances.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 5 (Validation of grants, leases, &c).

Senator WILSON:
South Australia

– I ask for an assurance, similar to that given in connexion with a previous bill, that this clause is not intended to take away the rights of any individual in respect of any legislation which is either before the Count or is pending.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I give an unqualified assurance that there is no intention to deprive any individual of his rights. This clause provides for the validation of land transactions executed prior to this act. I have no knowledge of any litigation pending in respect of the matters dealt with in this clause.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill .reported without amendment; report adopted.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.

Bill read a third time.

page 2581

ALIENS REGISTRATION BILL 1938

Second Reading

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Assistant Minister · Western Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of the bill is to make provision for an effective and continuous registration of aliens resident in the Commonwealth, with the object not only that information as to the movements and whereabouts of all individual aliens may be duly recorded and kept up tq date, but also that the authorities at all times shall have in their possession reliable data as to the degree of concentration of aliens of any particular nationality in any part of the Commonwealth.

Provision for the registration of’ aliens was first introduced into the Commonwealth law by the War Precautions Aliens Regulations 1916, under which aliens were forbidden to change their names without permission, were required to report their movements from place to place, to produce certificates of registration on demand, and to answer questions and produce documents concerning nationality if called upon to do so. Towards the end of the war, a special committee reported favorably on the advisability of retaining aliens’ registration, and, as ‘ a result, the Aliens Registration Act 1920 was passed by Parliament. This act came into force on the 1st January, 1921, but almost within a year it virtually became a dead letter, mainly because the services of some of the State police in whom the administration was largely vested ceased to be economically available. The 1920 act was suspended by the Aliens Registration Act Suspension Act of 1926, and by the Statute Law Revision Act No. 45 of J934 was repealed entirely.

Although alien registration within the Commonwealth ceased to operate for the time being, provision was made in the in> migration regulations to require aliens upon entering the Commonwealth to supply comprehensive personal statements. These statements have served a useful purpose and will continue to be obtained.

During recent years, however, the necessity for an effective system pf aliens registration has become increasingly evident. Under the immigration laws the entry of aliens can be checked and regulated; but that is not enough. In order that the control over our alien population -those already here and those who may be admitted from time to time - may be in any degree satisfactory, it is essential that a registration system, as provided in this bill, be made operative.

Not only is it desirable that a system of registration of aliens should exist in time of peace to avoid the hasty improvisation of expensive machinery for the purpose in the event of war, but, also, it is deemed essential that the authorities controlling the immigration of aliens shall at all times have at their disposal definite and up-to-date information as to the number and classes of aliens congregated in particular districts, the drift of aliens from one State to another, and so on.

In the administration of the law, it is intended to utilize the electoral machinery of the Commonwealth, which, it is considered, is admirably suited to the purpose. The general system proposed to be employed in connexion with the maintenance of the registers of aliens will follow closely the system now employed in connexion with the maintenance of the electoral rolls. Similarly it is proposed to maintain a lexicographical index of aliens in each State and territory on the same lines as the index, now kept in respect of electors.

As in the electoral sphere, the unit for alien registration purposes will be the electoral sub-division. There will be a register of aliens, containing particulars of the alien’s name, place of residence, occupation, nationality, &c, for each subdivision, maintained continuously uptodate by the electoral registrar in his capacity as Registrar of Aliens. Each alien, except consular representatives and others set out in clause 7 of the bill, will be required to make application for registration, to notify any change of address or name, and to apply for transfer of registration in the event of transfer of his place of living to another subdivision.

Upon registration of an alien, the registrar for the subdivision will issue to him a certificate of registration and will forward the alien’s application, and any other notification relating thereto, such as change of address or name, which may be received from time to time, to the Commonwealth Electoral Officer for the State or territory concerned, in order that it may be placed in the index of aliens. The original application, with any subsequent notifications attached to it, will be preserved in the index, and will, in effect, provide a readily available dossier in respect of the alien concerned.

The bill provides that an electoral or other Commonwealth officer may require an alien to produce his certificate of registration on demand; he may require any person believed to be an alien to furnish information as to his name, and nationality, to produce any document or other evidence in his possession relating thereto, and may require the occupier of any habitation or other person to answer any question or to supply information relating to an alien or person believed to be an alien. Any alien or person who fails to produce any document, answer any question, or supply information, or who knowingly gives false or misleading information, will be guilty of an offence.

The bill contains provisions, akin to those of the Electoral Act, prohibiting, under penalty, the making of any untrue statement by an alien in any application or document, the witnessing of any such document by any person without that person first satisfying himself as to the truth of the statements contained therein, and the forging of the signature of any person of any such paper.

It provides also for purposes of simplification and convenience in administration, that where an alien admits that he has failed to apply for registration or transfer of registration, or to notify change of address or name, within the required time, the Chief Electoral Officer, Commonwealth Electoral Officer or the Northern Territory Returning Officer (as the case may be) may, with the consent of the alien and provided the alien has since remedied the failure, impose upon him a pecuniary penalty not exceeding £5, as he thinks proper. This provision is analogous to the provisions in the Electoral Act, which empower, the electoral officers to impose monetary penalties upon electors who, without a valid and sufficient reason,* fail to enrol within the prescribed period or to vote, and who consent to their cases being so dealt with. It may be anticipated that in the great majority of cases any failure of an alien to comply with, the registration requirements within the prescribed period will be attributable to ignorance or forgetfulness, and while the imposition of a small fine may be necessary to ensure the effectiveness of the system, it is considered that the circumstances would not warrant police court proceedings except where the alien proved recalcitrant.

Ordinarily an alien who does not intend to reside in the Commonwealth, and does not remain in the Commonwealth for more than 60 days, will not be required to register under this proposed law; but clause 21 provides that such exemption shall not apply during any time of war.

Generally, it may be said that this proposed law imposes no duty or hardship upon aliens that is not already imposed by the electoral laws upon British subjects. In the belief that the bill will receive the support of all honorable senators, I commend it to the Senate and urge its speedy passage.

Debate (on motion of Senator Collings) adjourned.

page 2583

ANGLO-AMERICAN TRADE AGREEMENT

Ministerial Statement

Debate resumed from the 24th November (vide page 2119) on motion by Senator McLeay -

That the paper be printed.

Senator ABBOTT:
New South “Wales

– I take this opportunity to express what I hope is the general opinion of honorable senators, that no matter how rauch we may agree or disagree with the provisions of the trade agreement made between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of the United States of America, we at least welcome this evidence of an increasing spirit of co-operation in world affairs between the peoples of the British Empire and our kinsmen of the great republic. Though it is possible that some of the dominions, including Australia, may have to make some sacrifices under the agreement, I believe that in the present state of world conditions such sacrifices will prove well worth while. The agreement affects, among other products, the entry of wheat into the United

Kingdom market, and it is open to the suggestion that some sacrifices will have to be made by Australian wheat-growers. The Government is to be commended for the promptness with which it introduced legislation to counteract, to some degree at all events, any disadvantages to Australia which some people may see in the agreement. We had the opportunity, last night, to discuss those measures.

One effect of the agreement will be a greater measure of co-operation between Great Britain and the United States of America in trade matters and, we hope, an enduring spirit of reasonableness in the conduct of relations between the two peoples. Thus, whilst we may lose in one direction, as for example in wheat sales to Great Britain, we may, directly or indirectly, gain in another - we may find an improved market in the United States of America for the sale of Australian wool. .

It is gratifying to know that there is a close analogy betwen the development of Australia and that of the republic. We are, of course, historically a long way behind the people of the United States of America, but corresponding experiences are disclosed in the unfolding of the history of the two countries. We remember with pride the inspiring motto of that great -republic - E pluribus unum - one out of many. It means much to us. Within the last week or two there have been important references to the desirability of constitutional changes in Australia for the purpose of bringing about greater unity among the people. But as we shall have other opportunities to discuss that subject, I shall not occupy the time of the Senate this morning. I point out, however, that in the United States of America, many communities having different origins and different histories, influenced by the genius of great men produced by the times, came together and ultimately established a federation which, I venture to predict, may, in co-operation with the rest of the AngloSaxon and English-speaking peoples, prove to be the biggest factor in the preservation of a.11 that is sane, all that is good, and all that stands for the safeguarding of civilization in an unhappy and disturbed world. Our partners in the British family of nations have, I think, shown a commendable spirit, and a realization of the writing on the wall in regard to the future of the world, by indicating their preparedness to co-operate with, and share the burden of those who desire to uphold justice, freedom, humanity, and all that buttresses the highest ideals of civilization. I rejoice that this step has been so taken. I call the attention of my friends opposite, as well as that of senators on this side, to this phase of Australia’s history, which would appear likely to be so much like the history of the older America.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I am glad that the honorable senator says “ older “.

Senator ABBOTT:

– Twenty years ago the world was very different from today. It has changed even in the last twelve months, and we cannot afford any recriminations about the actions of the great sister nation, the United States of America. “We are apt at times, perhaps, to say that we could not depend on America in a time of emergency; but honorable senators should not forget that the man in the street in the United States of America has a suspicion in regard to us, because of our attitude to the League of Nations, which was born - of a very great American ideal.

Senator Gibson:

– - An abandoned child.

Senator ABBOTT:

– Yes ; perhaps that is what Senator A. J. McLachlan had in mind when he interjected a few moments ago. A large and virile body of opinion in the United States of America, even to-day, deeply regrets that circumstance. After the formation of the League, the United States of America gave it a great deal of sincere co-operation. The man in the street in the United States of America, rightly or wrongly, has the idea that, when the first big breakaway from the League occurred, and one of the parties to the Covenant went into another country which was also a member of the League, the British people should have cooperated with the United States of America in maintaining the ideals of the League.

When we give utterance to remarks such as have been made in regard to the United States of America, we should remember that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. We must face up to the world situation of to-day. The very existence of civilization itself, and of everything that we cherish -and value - our democratic principles and our liberty - depend today upon solid co-operation between the United States of America and the British peoples, and those saner elements in the world . which stand for freedom, and believe in justice and a fair deal between the nations, instead of setting up the god of force in international affairs. I think that honorable senators will agree with me that the great influx of people into what ultimately became the United States of America was due to the unhappy state of Europe and the grave injustices suffered there. The very thing that is happening to-day was the prime cause of the influx to America. We have often been told that America secured a polyglot population, and became a sort of international melting pot. It appeared as though it might fail to build up a homogeneous people out of the elements which it was receiving; but a few years ago it adopted a quota system. Australians should profit by the experience of their cousins in America, and take similar precautions here. We should take notice of the experiences of that great country with regard to the threatened influx of aliens into Australia. No matter how much my remark may be misunderstood, I express the view that whatever may happen, and whatever we do or think, we shall have to face up to a very rapid increase of our population, and a considerable part of the increase will be due to the immigration of people who are not of the same stock as ourselves. We must take all precautions to see that the immigrants are hand-picked. The Commonwealth should set up effective machinery overseas for the medical and fitness examination of alien migrants.

Senator Collings:

– And a moral examination, too.

Senator ABBOTT:

– Yes, it should be a thorough examination. As I have said, the migrants should be hand-picked before setting out for Australia. But we should lay down unswervingly the rule that, if a man comes here, he must be prepared to be an Australian, even though he cannot speak our language. He must have the idea firmly fixed in his mind that his children will be Australians just as much as we are. It would be intolerable tohave this country honeycombed with separate settlements of alien migrants. Australia is in its infancy as a nation, and we should look far ahead. Let it be made known to would-be migrants to Australia that those who would be liable under the laws of their own country to be conscripted in time of a war which is no concern of ours ought never to be granted the rights of Australian citizenship.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Nor should a man of dual nationality.

Senator ABBOTT:

– That is so. The migrant must make his choice. We have been discussing to-day a bill for the registration of aliens, and the thought occurred to me that they are not entitled to the privileges of our democracy, the protection of our laws, and the enjoyment of the opportunities and glorious climate which Australia affords, unless they are prepared to become good Australians. They should be taught so to value these privileges that they will surrender all obligations to the countries from which they come, and, as soon as they put their feet on Australian soil, agree to join with the present population in making this country what we all hope it will become.

I say, particularly to my friends opposite, that we must get it out of our heads that we can escape the repetition, to some extent, of what happened in America ; but we can lay down conditions - and this matter is far above considerations of party - which will safeguard us against some of the mistakes which have been made in the United States of America. I believe that that country itself, by means of its quota system, is beginning to build up a homogeneous people whose sentiment is democratic, because even aliens who have gone there, attracted by the democratic form of government and the general freedom of the people, are assisting to build up, as we hope to do in Australia, one nation with a common ideal. Let us cast down the old idols of conventionality which have forced people in over-crowded countries into acts against the interests of their fellow men and caused the present thirst for national power and supremacy. The Anglo-Saxon peoples, side by side with the other elements of sanity in the world, should play an important part in saving the remnant of civilization. I ask leave to continue my speech on a later date.

Leave granted; debate adjourned.

page 2585

QUESTION

INTERNATIONAL LABOUR ORGANIZATION

Twenty-third Conference: Reports of Australian Delegation.

Debate resumed from the 24th November, (vide page 2120), on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan -

That the paper be printed.

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Since the capsize of that ministerial vehicle to which Senator Ashley referred last night, I find that on some occasions I cannot entirely disentangle myself from its wheels, and this is’ one of those times. It is my privilege to close the debate on the motion which, as a Minister, I initiated in the Senate on the 7th December last. When the debate was resumed some weeks ago, the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) complained because the motion was brought on somewhat unexpectedly, but he debated it with characteristic ability and eloquence. The honorable senator quoted extensively from the report of Mr. Pullan, the workers’ delegate at the last conference, and dealt with the views expressed by him. I was surprised to hear the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Senator Keane) say that he had had insufficient time to examine the report, because, as the Leader of the Opposition stated, it was tabled in the Senate on the 7th December last. I regret that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has been so busily engaged that in the long period which has elapsed he has not found enough time to study the report. This document calls for more than passing comment, but I shall deal more particularly with the points raised by the Leader of the Opposition. The International Labour Organization is an appendage of the League of Nations, and as its conventions are of importance not only to the people represented by the Leader of the Opposition, but also to others, the adoption of the conventions may have a far-reaching effect on the civilized world. Some are inclined to think that the conventions are framed merely to improve the conditions of individuals who consider that their standards of living ought to be raised, but that is not so. Although the functions of the International Labour Organization are to raise the living standards of nations, the peace of the world may be threatened by an insistence on such standards. Can our white civilization continue when it has to compete with people whose standards are so much lower than our own, and who live iia luxury under conditions which .to members of the white race would mean starvation? Some may study these problems from a political standpoint, but they have to be viewed from a totally different standpoint. A determined insistence upon certain standards may split nations and even cause war. In these circumstances, the conventions and reports of the International Labour Organization should be closely scrutinized. The Leader of the Opposition referred to recommendations 1, 3, 5 and 7 contained in Mr. Pullan’s report. They read -

  1. That government representation at the conference consist of two delegates instead nf one.
  2. That advisers be appointed to assist delegates.
  3. That a permanent Australian office be established in Geneva.
  4. That Australia seek representation on the governing body of the International Labour Organization.

The Leader of the Opposition cited the recommendation adopted by the Conference concerning the planning of public works, and the general question of the introduction of a 40-hour working week. I intend to deal briefly with those points. Many of the recommendations made by the workers’ delegates have been raised previously by members of Australian delegations to International Labour conferences, and the Commonwealth Government has, on several occasions, given careful consideration to their adoption. Honorable senators will realize that the adoption of Recommendations 1, 3, 5 and 7 would involve the Commonwealth Government in considerably increased expenditure. At present, the practice is to send from Australia only a workers’ delegate, the Government delegate and the employers’ delegate being chosen from persons who for other reasons are abroad at the time of the Conference. If a second government delegate were to be sent to Geneva, and advisers were to ‘be appointed to assist the members of the Australian delegation, some or all of such additional delegates would have to be sent from Australia. If an Australian representative were elected to the governing body of the International Labour Organization, his presence in Europe would be required during a large portion of the year, and heavy subsistence and travelling expenses would be involved. The establishment of a permanent Australian office in Geneva would be particularly expensive, and I understand is not considered necessary at present. For many years an officer of the Department of Externa] Affairs, who is a specialist in League of Nations matters, has been at Australia House, and keeps in constant touch with the Australian liaison officers attached to the British Foreign Office. He is available at all times to attend important meetings held at Geneva. In the opinion of the Government, the additional advantages of opening a permanent Australian office in Geneva would not be sufficiently great to compensate for the expense involved. In regard to Recommendation No. 2, I may say that the constitution of the International Labour Organization provides that the workers and employers’ delegates shall be selected in agreement with the industrial organizations most representative of the workers and employers. Consultation between the Commonwealth Government and such industrial organizations involves at times some delay in the selection of delegates, but every effort is made to ensure their appointment at the earliest possible moment. It would be difficult to give effect to Mr. Pullan’s recommendation that travelling expenses should be the subject of a pooling arrangement, and it is doubtful whether any substantial support for such an arrangement would be forthcoming from countries situated closer to Geneva than Australia is. Article 19 of the Constitution of the International Labour Organization provides that each member shall, within a prescribed period, bring to the notice of the authorities within whose competence the matter lies, for the enactment of legislation or other action, all recommendations or draft conventions adopted at International Labour Conferences. Each year the Commonwealth Government forwards such recommendations and draft conventions to the State governments and to interested Commonwealth departments with a view to ascertaining what effect can be given to their provisions and deciding whether the conventions can be ratified. The recommendations and draft conventions are also tabled in Parliament and. opportunity is given for discussion such as that which is now proceeding. Mr. Pullan’s last recommendation is that the International Labour Organization’s ideal of social progress be actively pursued. This year the Government has, by the introduction of a national health and pensions insurance scheme, given ample proof that it intends to pursue such an ideal. At present consideration is being given to the question of whether the Commonwealth is now in a position to ratify a number of Conventions of the International Labour Conference, the provisions of which are similar to those contained in the National Health and Pensions Insurance Act. The Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) referred to recommendation No. 51, which relates to the national planning of public works. Information on this subject has been received from several State governments, and I understand that the terms of the recommendation are now receiving consideration . Several honorable senators have raised the subject of a 40-hour week. That is, perhaps, the most important matter dealt with by the International Labour Organization, and has received the constant attention of the Government over a period of years. The Government’s policy in that respect has been publicly stated in Parliament and at conferences of Commonwealth and State Ministers.

Honorable senators are aware that the International Labour Organization has, after an unsuccessful attempt to secure international agreement as regards the application of a 40-hour week to industry as a whole, adopted a different method of procedure. The conference of 1935 considered and adopted a convention declaring approval of the principle of a 40-hour week, to be applied to particular industries covered by separate conventions which might subsequently be adopted and ratified. Since 1935, draft conventions have been adopted dealing with the question of the reduction of hours of work as regards glass bottle manufacture, public works and the textile industry. At the conference of 1937, however, workers’ delegates stressed the fact that the method of reducing hours of work, industry by industry, was proceeding so slowly that industry as a whole would not be covered for an indefinite number of years. As a result, the generalization of the reduction of hours of work in . all economic activities not covered by existing conventions was placed upon the agenda of the conference of 1938. That conference decided to place on the agenda of the succeeding conference, to be held at Geneva in June, 1939, the following items dealing with the reduction of hours of work to 40 or less in the week : -

  1. Generalization of the reduction of hours of work in industry, commerce and offices.
  2. Reduction of hours of work in coal mines. .
  3. Regulation of hours of work and rest periods of professional drivers (and their assistants) of vehicles engaged in road transport.

Questionnaires on these subjects were drawn up and forwarded to members of the International Labour Organization, and when replies have been received in Geneva, draft conventions will be prepared and considered at next year’s conference. The reduction of hours of work in industry, commerce and offices raises questions of such importance that the Commonwealth Government has established an inter-departmental committee consisting of representatives of the Public Service Board and the Common-, wealth Railways, the PostmasterGeneral’s Department and the Treasury, and the Departments of Defence, Interior and External Affairs to consider the terms of the questionnaire and to report thereon. When that report is received the Commonwealth Government will be in a position to decide what policy it should adopt with regard to this main item on the. agenda of the conference of 1939.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Sitting suspended from 12.45 to3.42 p.m.

page 2588

APPROPRIATION BILL 1938-39

Assent reported.

page 2588

WHEAT INDUSTRY ASSISTANCE BILL 1938

Message received from the House of Representatives intimating that it had agreed to the amendment made by the Senate in this bill.

page 2588

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Senator McLeay) agreed to -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till Tuesday next, at 3 p.m.

page 2588

ADJOURNMENT

Steel Imports: Unemployment

Motion (by Senator McLeay) proposed - ‘

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Senator ASHLEY:
New South Wales

– I take this opportunity to draw attention to the following report which appeared in this week’s Sydney press: -

A German steel importing company has been registered in Sydney. The company will sell special alloy steels throughout Australia and Now Zealand. A representative of the company said yesterday that the proceeds of the sales will be used by the company to buy Australian wool. No money will leave Australia, lt is not possible to manufacture the steels here, he says, owing to lack of the basic materials and technicians. They are used in the manufacture of high quality tools and constructional steels. The company will not compete against Australian steel manufacturers.

I wish to know whether that report is correct. Inquiries could be made through the standards laboratory which, I understand, has been established in connexion with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to ascertain whether this steel can be manufactured in Australia. Whilst I recognize the necessity for reciprocity in trade with those countries which are customers for out wool a.nd other primary products, it is, nevertheless, highly desirable that in any adjustment of our trade with those countries we should avoid doing injury to our secondary industries. I make these observations in the hope that the Government will inquire into the matter which I have raised

Senator CAMERON:
Victoria · CP

– I apologize for being absent from the chamber this morning, and take this opportunity to explain that I was attending to a number of telephone calls which I had put through to Melbourne in order to obtain information concerning the unemployment position there. I was under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that possibly the Leader of the Senate would have seen fit to inform me that the debate on the international labour conference was likely to be resumed, but apparently he did not think the subject, or myself, was of sufficient importance to justify such an intimation. If that be the case I shall do my best to dis-abuse his mind of that . impression. My inquiries elicited that the unemployment position in Melbourne is going from bad to worse. 1 was informed by the secretary of the Central Unemployment Committee, Mr. H. Lees, that the number of unemployed is increasing, and also that the Melbourne City Council, which is not a Labour council, and is regarded as a rather conservative body, recognizes the seriousness of the position and has granted one week’s pay to 600 sustenance workers in addition ‘to their usual pay. Such action is quite unusual on the part of such a body as the Melbourne City Council. I mention these facts in an endeavour to convince honorable senators opposite of the seriousness of the position which is developing. I also made inquiries as to the number of unemployed who are being engaged by the Defence Department, and I was informed that very few of them were being given work, by that department. The secretary of the Amalgamated Engineering Union, Mr. Fair, stated that he now has more skilled workers on his hooks than he has had for some considerable time. Mr. Lees also informed me that the Defence Department is not employing unskilled workers; consequently its work will .be of little benefit to the unemployed, although most of these men are unskilled through no fault of their own. I urge the Government to d.o something on their behalf. Immediate action is necessary if further suffering is to be prevented, and if we are to avoid greater damage to the community in general. The economic waste which is now ‘going on is undermining the morale of thousands of mcn. I appeal again to the Government to reconsider the problem. This year has been one of the worst experienced by Victoria since the depression; the Government of that State has practically reached a dead end in its efforts to relieve the position. The relief workers realize that nothing more can be done by Mr. Dunstan, who has declared that he cannot get the Loan Council to give him the money needed to relieve their plight.

Senator McLeay:

– Cannot his Government increase income taxation ? It is lower in Victoria than in any other State.

Senator CAMERON:

– I have not consulted him on the matter.

Senator McLeay:

– Well, then, the honorable senator has not asked for very much information about the position.

Senator CAMERON:

– This problem merits more serious attention from the honorable senator than the mere making of sharp interjections. I point out that the Government of Victoria has fully investigated it, not once, but dozens of times, and I assume that it has considered the desirability of increasing income tax as a means of relieving the position. I assume, also, judging by our experience in the past, that if it attempted to increase income tax for this purpose its attempts would be defeated by the Legislative Council.

Senator Dein:

– . How can the honorable senator say that?

Senator CAMERON:

– That view is based on past experience. Honorable senators opposite may be sympathetic towards the unemployed, but I deny that any of them really understands the position from the point of view of the unemployed themselves.

Senator Cooper:

– Why is there still unemployment in Queensland, whore there is no upper house?

Senator Collings:

– During the last eight years Queensland has had the lowest percentage of unemployment of any of the States.

Senator McLeay:

– And the highest rate of taxation.

Senator Collings:

– But the tax has not been placed on the shoulders of the workers.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order !

Senator CAMERON:

– Whatever faults may be attributed to any State government in dealing with thisproblem- and we all realize that serious obstacles confront all of them - the fact remains that this Government cannot disown its share of responsibility in the matter. I say emphatically that it is not doing all that it could do in the interests of the unemployed. Honorable senators may be sympathetic towards the unemployed, but, apparently, they simply do not understand the position. They have not lived with the unemployed, and they have failed to realize what is happening. They have not gone through the experience suffered by men who are treated as social lepers and pariahs, and denied the right of a decent standardof living. We on this side realize the tragedy of the unemployed, a tragedy which is destroying the lives of thousands of men. If Senator A. J. McLachlan really understood the problem he would not accuse honorable senators on this side of indulging in mock heroics when we direct attention to so serious a position as now exists, and which his Government up to date has not done all in its power to relieve. The charge of mock heroics is merely the result of a process of mental projection by which the honorable senator attributes to others the traits which’ he himself possesses. I am concerned, not with making points in debate; I am not claiming to know more than other people, but I want something done for the unemployed. I ask the Minister and his colleagues to take this matter into serious consideration over the week-end. If the Government is prepared to do something worth while, along the lines adopted by Mr. Dunstan and the Melbourne City Council, I shall bc the first to express my appreciation and the thanks of the unemployed who, at the moment, should, be our first consideration.

Senator McLeaySouth AustraliaVicePresident of the Executive Council) [3.56]. - in reply - The point raised by Senator Ashley will be referred to the Minister for Trade and Customs for consideration, and next week I shall give a reply to the honorable senator.

I have no desire to get heated in discussing the subject of unemployment raised bySenator Cameron, butI point out that the Commonwealth Government is pressing on with a vigorous policy for the defence of Australia, and hopes that in theworks programme associated therewith work will be found for the men to whom the honorable senator has referred. It is the considered opinion of the Government that it is better to provide work than merely to give a measure of Christmas relief.

Senator Ashley:

– So far, the unemployed have not received either.

Senator McLEAY:
UAP

– Honorable senators know that money for the defence programme has already been appropriated. I give to Senator Cameron every ‘ credit for being sincere in his desire to do something for the unemployed, but I draw attention to the fact that taxes in Victoria are lower than in any other State.

Senator Sheehan:

– The Government there has looked well after the wealthy classes.

Senator McLEAY:

– If that Government is really anxious to do something for the unemployed, it can raise revenue for that purpose, by imposing heavier taxes. I suggest that instead of trying to make political capital out of the distresses of their more unfortunate fellow citizens, honorable senators should make their plea to the Government of Victoria.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2590

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Commonwealth Public Service Act -

Appointment - Department of the Treasury -G.C. Jewkes.

Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1938, No. 110.

Senate adjourned at 3.59 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 2 December 1938, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1938/19381202_senate_15_158/>.