14th Parliament · 1st Session
The President (Senator the Hon. P. J. Lynch) took the chair at 3 p.m. and read prayers.
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– I have received from His Excellency the GovernorGeneral a commission to administer to senators the oath or affirmation of allegiance.
Commission laid on the table and read by the Acting Clerk.
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I lay on the table of the Senate a copy ofthe Extradition Treaty between the United Kingdom and the United States of America, signed at London on the 22nd December, 1931. Notice of accession to this treaty has been given to the Governof the United States of America with effect from the 30th August, 1935, in respect of Australia, Papua, Norfolk Island, New Guinea and Nauru. This treaty replaces so far as Australia,. Papua and Norfolk Island are concerned, the provisions of the Extradition Treaties of 1842, 1889, 1900 and 1905, which were not applicable to New Guinea and. Nauru.
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The following papers wore presented -
Defence Act- Royal Military College of Australia - Report for period 1st January, 1934, to 31st December, 1934.
Canned Fruits Export Control Act - Ninth Annual Report of the Canned Fruits Control Board, year ended 30th June, 1935, together with Statement by the Minister for Commerce regarding the operation of the Act.
Customs Act and Commerce (Trade Descriptions) Act-Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1935, No. 65.
Dairy Produce Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1935, No. 47.
Dried Fruits Export Control Act- Eleventh Annual Report of the Dried Fruits Control Board, year ended 30th June, 1935, together with Statement by the Minister for Commerce regarding the operation of the Act.
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– HUGHES. - Is the Minister for External Affairs in a position to give the Senate any further information with regard to the ItaloAbyssinian dispute?
Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.Certain communications . have been received from the British Government, but at present there is nothing to communicate to the Senate.
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– On the 24th September Senator Johnston asked the following questions, upon, notice : -
I am now able to furnish the honorable senator with the following information : -
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– Can the Leader of the Senate state when copies of the second report of the Commonwealth Grants Commission will be available for honorable senators ?
– The report was laid on the table yesterday, so copies should very soon be ready for distribution to honorable senators.
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– Is the Postmaster-General in a position to state when the new submarine telephone line between Tasmania and the mainland will be available for use?
– I have not yet acquired encyclopaedic knowledge of the activities of my department, but I can assure the honorable senator that the new service will be available early in the new year. The vessel conveying the equipment is now on its way to Australia.
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– Pursuant to Standing Order 28a, I hereby nominate Senators A. 0. Badman,C. W. Grant and J. V. MacDonald a panel to act as Temporary Chairmen of Committees, when requested so to do by the Chairman of Committees, or when the Chairman of Committees is absent.
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– Pursuant to Standing Order No. 38,I hereby appoint the following senators to be the Com-, mittee of Disputed Returns and Qualifications: Senators J. S. Collings, W. G. Gibson, W. Plain and O. Uppill.
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Returned Soldier Employees
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
– The answer to the honorable senator’s questions is as follows: -
Enquiries are being made, and a reply will be furnished to the honorable senator as early as possible.
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asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -
Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.The following replies to the honorable senator’s questions have been furnished by the Prime Minister: -
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Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) agreed to -
That Senators Collett, Dein and James McLachlan be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the Library Committee.
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Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) agreed to -
That Senators Brand, Cooper and J. V. MacDonald be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the House Committee.
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Motion (by Senator Sir George
Pearce) agreed to -
That Senators Badman, Leckie and Allan MacDonald be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the Printing Committee.
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Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) agreed to -
That Senators Abbott, Brown, Collings, J. V. MacDonald and McLeay be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the Regulations and Ordinances Committee.
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Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) agreed to -
That Senators Hardy, Herbert Hays and Plain be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the Standing Orders Committee.
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Bill received from the House of Representatives.
Suspension or Standing and Sessional Orders.
[3.18].- I move-
That so much of the Standing and Sessional Orders be suspended as would prevent the bill being passed through all its stages without delay.
The bill affected by this motion has as its object the validation of the collection of certain duties of customs beyond the period of six months which ends on the 28th September. It therefore must be passed this week. It is not of sufficient importance to necessitate the attendance of honorable senators here tomorrow, and the motion is moved so that the bill may be disposed of to-day, in which case those honorable senators who desire to do so may leave Canberra by train to-night.
Question resolved in the affirmative, and bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) read a first time.
– I move -
That the bill be now read a second time.
This measure provides for the validation until the 30th November, 1935, of collections of duty made in accordance “with the customs tariff proposals introduced into the House of Representatives on the 28th March last. As honorable senators are aware, unless the schedule is passed by both Houses of Parliament within six months from the date of introduction, a validating bill is necessary. As there is insufficient time within which fully to debate the items separately before the 28th of this month, Parliament is being asked to validate the collections until the 30th November. This is the date to which collections under the tariff proposals introduced on the 6th December last are also validated. The validation of the collections of duties under both proposals until the same date will afford the Government an opportunity to combine the two schedules, thus making it more convenient for the discussion of individual items.
– The Opposition will not oppose the passage of this measure. We understand its purport, and the necessity for it. When the Scullin Government was in office, and adopted precisely the same procedure as is now being followed, honorable senators who sit on the other side of the chamber bitterly denounced that Ministry’s policy. However, that need not affect the situation this afternoon, although I cannot resist the impulse to remind honorable senators of their former attitude. Honorable senators of the party to which I belong are somewhat flattered to know that the present Government has been obliged to adopt this procedure, as well as some other practices introduced by the Scullin Administration. Perhaps the Leader of the Senate (Senator Pearce) will assure the chamber that within a reasonable time honorable senators will have an opportunity to discuss the tariff items in a detailed and thorough manner.
– I give the honorable senator that assurance.
.- While not objecting to this bill, I consider that the principle involved is altogether wrong. In matters entailing grave consequences both to the manufacturers and the community in general the fullest possible discussion should be permitted. Many months have passed since the tariff schedules were introduced, but so far they have not been debated by Parliament. Trade and industry are vitally interested in the new customs duties, and have been waiting for an opportunity totest them. I am quite satisfied that the Government has no desire to repeat this method of carrying on business, but will afford honorable senators an opportunity to express their views on tariff matters at the earliest opportunity. The present method by which reductions of dutiesbecome law as soon as new schedulesare laid on the table is viewed with grave concern in many quarters. I hope that when tariff schedules are brought down in future, every opportunity will be afforded immediately for their consideration by the Parliament and the public.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time.
In committee:
Clause 1 agreed to.
Clause 2 (Validation of collections under tariff proposals).
– I fully agree with the sentiment expressed by Senator Leckie, though possibly from a different view-point, that validating bills of this description are undesirable. When a similar measure was introduced in this chamber on a previous occasion this year, I expressed the hope that it would not constitute a precedent for future action, and the Minister in charge of the bill indicated that it would not. I trust this will be the last occasion on which it will be necessary for the Government to introduce a validating bill of this kind. Having studied this clause I believe that a grave anomaly might arise which would prevent the return or refund of duties collected in error or held in abeyance pending the production of additional information. This clause reads -
All duties of customs demanded or collected on or before the 30th day of November . . . shall be deemed to have been lawfully imposed and lawfully demanded or collected.
That might prevent the refunding of money to importers who had been overcharged.
– It does not affect a person’s rights at law. If a person overpays, he can obtain redress tinder the law as it stands.
– Will the Minister give an assurance that this clause will not be used in any way to prevent a refund from being made to a person who has been overcharged?
– The honorable senator has raised what might at first appear to be an interesting point, but I believe that it has been considered before. The words that govern the clause are: “pursuant to the customs tariff proposals.” The collections must be pursuant to those proposals. If not, the importer stands in exactly the same position as one who has been unlawfully overcharged under schedules that have been finally passed by Parliament.
Clause agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without requests; report adopted.
Bill read a third time.
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Bill received from the House of Representatives.
Standing and sessional orders suspended.
Bill (on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan) read a first time.
Second Beading.
– I move -
That the bill be now read a second time.
This measure, which is associated with the Customs Tariff Validation Bill (No. 2), ensures that the exchange adjustment amendments necessitated by the ordinary customs tariff proposals of the 28th March, 1935, shall operate to the date mentioned in that measure, namely, the 30th November, 1935. As the Customs Tariff Validation Bill (No. 2) has been passed, the passage of this measure is essential.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.
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Debate resumed from the 25th September (vide page 141), on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan -
That the bill be now read a second time.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.
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Debate resumed from the 25th September(vide page 142), on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan -
That the bill be now read a second time.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.
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Debate resumed from the 25th September (vide page 142), on motion by Senator A. J. McLachlan -
That the bill be now read a second time.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.
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Debate resumed from the 25th September (vide page 159), on motion by Senator Sir George Pearce -
That the papers be printed.
– Providencehas come to the rescue of the Government. Droughts in other countries and rumours of war between Italy and Abyssinia have increased prices for Australian primary products in overseas markets, with the result that the budget figures presented to the Senate on Monday disclosed an improvement, for which however Ministers cannot claim justly the whole of the credit. This being the case, no surprise need be occasioned if we, on this side, examine critically the Government’s policy and administrative record.
Senator Payne addressed a few words of wisdom to the Senate yesterday. He spoke in approving terms of the ability of private enterprise to deal with our unemployment difficulties, to overcome the depression and set Australia again on the road to prosperity. We on this side take an entirely different view. Senator Payne and his friends - members of the United Australia party and Country party - belong to the parties of conservatism and reaction. They stand “ pat “ for the things that are. Labour senators believe in change with a view to progress and to meet any situation as it arises. Government supporters, in their survey of the world’s economic position, pin their faith to private enterprise and lose no opportunity to endeavour to persuade us that, if unhampered by governmental restrictions, private enterprise would restore prosperity in the world.
Senator Payne is typical of the class he represents - the reactionary element in the community. Although personally he has all the attributes of a good fellow, he has an obsession about the superlative efficiency of private enterprise. Only yesterday he deplored the decline of the natural increase of population in Australia, but failed to point to the true remedy. That is a subject in which he has always displayed great interest, and I think we all commend him for the views which he has expressed. He believes, as we do, that our circumstances necessitate an increase of population. Then the honorable senator went on to tell us about the Fairbridge Farm School in Western Australia, which cares for a few children sent out each year from the United Kingdom. That institution was commended by the honorable gentleman as one means of increasing the population. We say that such projects are all right in their way, but our complaint is that the Government does nothing to ensure for the people already here continuity of employment at reasonably good wages, thus encouraging them to establish homes and rear families. Senator Payne, whom I regard as one of the mental troglodytes, would say that the Government must not do any of the things which we advocate.
– That remark is offensive to me and I ask for its with- drawal.
The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. P. J. Lynch). - The remark being offensive to Senator Payne, I ask Senator Brown to withdraw it.
– I assure my friend that I did not use the word in any derogatory sense. At one time the world was peopled by cave dwellers, who were known as troglodytes; so to suggest that Senator Payne mentally is a troglodyte - one living in the dark ages of social progress - is surely not personally offensive. I assure him that I have no desire to hurt his feelings, and I hope that he will be satisfied with this explanation. I do not imply that there is something wrong with the honorable senator, merely because he cannot accept my view. The party I represent desires to make basic changes in the economic and social structure with a view to progress, whereas Senator Payne and his friends desire to maintain the status quo.
The budget discloses no intention on the part of the Government to make the necessary basic economic changes that are so urgently needed in the interests of our people.
– Has the honorable senator examined the budget papers closely?
– I have, and before I resume my seat I hope to be able to convince the honorable senator and his friends that I have a complete mastery of their contents.
– The real difference between the honorable senator and members on thisside is that we are governed by experience.
– I freely admit that Senator Duncan-Hughes has had considerable experience; and on many occasions I defer to his judgment. But may I suggest that, in the Labour movement there are also men of wide experience? Within comparatively recent times certain members of our party “ ratted “ from our ranks and our political opponents have welcomed them with open arms. Some have even become tory leaders. As the representatives of the workers, wo have every right to speak for Labour. Many Government supporters having been in privileged positions all their lives, definitely represent the more fortunate sections of the community, and consistently oppose any action that might jeopardize their interests. Those who .are not privileged suffer; and, consequently, they support a policy which offers them some hope of a changed economic condition. When I interjected yesterday that a reduction of the working hours would help to solve the unemployment problem, Senator Payne ridiculed the suggestion. It is all very well for the honorable senator to take that stand, because his future is assured; but what about the thousands of unemployed who would find a job if the working hours were reduced ? Those who- gain their livelihood by exploiting the workers will, of course, oppose anything which might reduce their income. Opinion in regard to private enterprise is different from that which obtained a few years ago. I do not belie.ve that any honorable senator really believes that private enterprise can solve the unemployment difficulty. Throughout the world there is a growing belief that government assistance must be forthcoming.
– Would the honorable senator say that progress has ]>een made during the last few years?
– As a result of constant agitation by the Labour party, and changed economic conditions, governments have been compelled to move forward. Recently, I received from the League of Nations a bulletin containing the annual report of Mr. Harold Butler, the Director of the International Labour Office, to the conference which opened at Geneva in June, 1934. After remarking that one country after another had rejected the fatalistic belief in the benevo lent operation of the economic law, Mr. Butler continued -
The events of the last twelve months may be said to have set the seal upon this transformation of attitude. Instead of receding as signs of recovery have appeared, the demand for collective action and organization has, on the contrary, been reinforced. The very security of the State is now seen to depend not only upon the inviolability of its frontiers, but upon its ability to provide an orderly and sufficient existence to all classes of its citizens. As it has been aptly remarked by the well-known American publicist, Mr. Walter Lippman, “the task of ensuring the standard of living for its people is now as much the fundamental duty of the State as the preservation of national independence.”
– Yesterday the honorable senator said that his party objected to collective action.
– This party does not object to the principle of collective action in connexion with the ItaloAbyssinian dispute.
– But it does not want Australia to be in it.
– This party believes in collective action to the full; but it is grossly unfair that Australia should be dragged into a dispute which threatens because three other nations are economically interested.
– The honorable senator wants to have “ ten bob both ways “ !
– As a good Australian, I like to back a winner when I see it.
– This party would stop the fire from spreading, just as a fire brigade tries to do.
– The bulletin continued -
Mr. Butler considers that there is ground for thinking that the measure of success achieved by State intervention is justifying and strengthening the popular belief that, by bold, well-conceived steps planned on a sufficiently comprehensive scale, it is within the power of governments to influence the course of recovery to a very considerable extent.
The Government is not taking adequate steps to deal with the situation. It believes in a policy of “ Wait and see “. While it has waited, wheat and wool prices have risen, revenues have become more buoyant, unemployment has decreased a little; and now the Government says that the depression is over, the corner is turned, and all is well. It is true that the Government has tried to do something. It sent the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons), the Attorney-General (Mr.
Menzies), the Minister directing negotiations for Trade Treaties (Sir Henry Gullett), and the Assistant Minister (Mr. Thorby) with a retinue of followers to England, Ireland, and Scotland and a number of Continental countries. The Minister directing negotiations for Trade treaties endeavoured to sell a few pounds of steak in Central Europe and to enter into a bi-lateral agreement with Czechoslovakia. The Labour party commends every effort to increase Australia’s trade with other countries ; but it knows that bi-lateralism will not solve the problems of ‘trade or of unemployment. Some time ago an agreement was entered into with Belgium. It would be interesting to know the result of that arrangement. “We hear a good deal about the balance of trade between nations, and it is contended by some that, by adjusting the trade balance, our economic difficulties will be overcome. The High Commissioner (Mr. Bruce), who was formerly a member of the Commonwealth Government, had something to say on this subject recently. According to him, there is not much hope of the present difficulties being overcome by a series of bi-lateral agreements. The right honorable gentleman is reported to have said -
Politicians can never successfully handle the question of complementary trade, which is now in the hands of the commercial leaders of the country. Complementary trade to-day bore not the slightest relationship to one of the most ghastly menaces in existence - the theory of compensation agreements which was rife throughout the world, which was based on the new and fantastic notion that exactly balanced trade between nations could be obtained.
Some months ago, I pointed out in this chamber that trade involves dealings, not merely between this country and some other country with which we have made an agreement, but between Australia and the rest of the world, and my remarks were endorsed by the Assistant Minister (Senator Brennan). Unfortunately, there is a lot of foolish talk about our economic problems being solved by adjusting the trade balance.
– Is it not a fact that one country after another told the Minister negotiating Trade Treaties that the trade between it and Australia was not being conducted on equal terms?
– Every country in the world is obsessed with the idea that it must balance its trade with every other country. Recently, Mr. Debuchi, from Japan, had something to say regarding the large amount qf Japanese money spent in Australia, and the comparatively small purchases from his country by Australians. It is entirely wrong to say that the world’s economic problems will be solved by a series of bilateral agreements. Monsieur E. Fougere, president of the French National Association for Economic Expansion, is reported to have said -
Bilateralism shows itself in an effort to obtain strict reciprocity in the trade between two countries. The general balance of trade with other countries is left out of the picture, and only bilateral trade balance between the two countries is considered.
The economist, J. B. Say, considered that a favorable trade balance was often an indication of national poverty and that a prosperous country generally had an unfavorable trade balance, because it used the proceeds of its work to increase its comfort and wealth by purchase from abroad. To imagine that one can regulate the balance of payments by a series of bilateral trade balances is idle fancy.
We on this side of the. chamber realize that the world’s market is so limited that its division among the nations, no matter on what basis, will not solve their economic problems. Consequently, we have tried to change the economic basis so that, instead of producing for a market, we shall produce for the people themselves. More and more, the world is being forced to the conclusion that private enterprise has failed, and that governments must intervene and set in motion machinery which will provide for the needs of the people.
The Government boasts of the budget introduced a few days ago by the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Casey) ; but already a good deal of dissatisfaction with it hasbeen expressed. Tasmania, South Australia and Western Australia are rightlyattacking the Commonwealth Government because of the disabilities imposed! upon them by federation. The Government has done nothing to remove the causes of complaint. It smugly contemplates its presentsurplus, and disregards its past deficits. The dissatisfaction of. the three States I have mentioned is also shared to some extent by Queensland.
– A good deal of dissatisfaction prevails in Western Australia regarding the sugar agreement. Does the honorable senator suggest that the Government should not renew it?
– I know that the people of Western Australia have had their minds poisoned against Queensland. A cause of dissatisfaction in Queensland with federal administration is the fact that that State has no full Minister in the Cabinet. Mr. Hunter is a Queenslander, but he is only an Assistant Minister. Senator Poll is another Queenslander, but he is only government whip. He did not even get the position of Chairman of Committees after so many years of faithful service to his party. Senator Crawford was once a Minister, but he has now been relegated to the rank and file of his party. It seems that good men and true, who support the Government and represent the State of Queensland, cannot get a major ministerial appointment.
The Premier of Queensland (Mr. Forgan Smith) has taken the Federal Government to task for preening itself about its surpluses while the States are labouring under deficits. After the conference of Commonwealth and State Ministers in 1934, Mr. Forgan Smith proposed that the Commonwealth Government should accept responsibility for a greater proportion of the State debts. He proposed also that the Commonwealth should shoulder the full burden of the repatriation of returned soldiers. That is essentially a Commonwealth obligation. He claimed further that the States were entitled to the whole of the proceeds of the petrol tax, pointing out that roads were built and maintained by the States. The Commonwealth is insidiously, but obviously, bleeding the States to financial death, and the Constitution should be altered to give them greater financial power and enable them to pay their way. A conference should be convened to con sider amendments of the Constitution which would have the effect of removing the States’ disabilities. The Constitution should be so amended as to enable the States to achieve progress, and render it impossible for them to be bled by the Commonwealth.
In thebudget speech the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Casey) expressed pleasure that the Commonwealth Government, by its adherence to sound finance, had been able to provide means for the absorption of increasing numbers of the unemployed. Is there ground for satisfaction in the fact that a country so rich as to be capable of feeding all its people, has many thousands of men and women on the bread line? There is something rotten in a financial system which allows that state of affairs.
The budget compares the situation in 1932, when the employment index showed that 30 per cent, of trade unionists were unemployed, with the position in the second quarter of this year, when the percentage of unemployed was 17.8. The comparison indicates admittedly a considerable reduction of the ranks of the workless. State unemployment figures are not mentioned in the budget, but in the second quarter of 1935 the percentage of unemployed in New South Wales was 22.7 ; in South Australia, 18.9; in Tasmania, 16.4; and in Victoria, 15. Anti-labour governments are in office in New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia. In the States where Labour governments are in power unemployment is considerably less. The percentage of unemployed unionists in Western Australia is 13, and in Queensland it is only 8.8. Since Labour assumed office in Tasmania unemployment has been greatly diminished in that State. When I mentioned the matter of unemployment yesterday, Senator Payne said that a reduction of the number of hours worked would not contribute substantially to the lowering of the unemployment figures. The Under Secretary for Employment (Sir Frederick Stewart) at the International Labour Conference this year announced that he favoured a reduction of working hours as a means of increasing employment. His statement received world-wide publicity.
– Does the honorable senator believe that shorter hours will solve the unemployment problem?
– Shorter hours will provide a partial solution of that problem. The Labour party’s monetary policy will do the rest. The 40-hour working week is being advocated all over the world.
– Where does private enterprise come in?
– Private enterprise alone cannot solve the problem. It has been necessary for the central governments of the world to come to its rescue. The assistance given by the Commonwealth to primary producers has cost millions of pounds, and the Labour party has supported the granting of that assistance; it has even had to fight the Government, which would not agree to a paltry £50 of the bounty being reserved for each farmer’s personal benefit, although the fact is well known that most of this money usually finds its way into the pockets of traders and financial institutions. The 40-hour week has been introduced in the United States of America, Italy and even Czechoslovakia. At Geneva, Sir Frederick Stewart spoke eloquently in favour of Australia following their example, but the Commonwealth Government has taken absolutely no action to that end. Its failure in thi? respect is one ground of the Opposition’s criticism.
The French Minister of Labour, speaking in the French Senate in December, 1934, said that it had been calculated that by reducing hours by only four a week, employment could be found for 500,000. more men.
– That is under private enterprise.
– Yes, but with the assistance of the central government. The interests of individual firms are opposed to those of the people; they cannot be reconciled. Private employers may be the most humane of men, but they are affected by their economic circumstances, which prevent them from solving the unemployment problem on their own initiative. They must have the help of governments. Everywhere there is increasing recognition of the necessity for higher wages to increase purchasing power. The party of which
I am a member has been accused of unorthodox methods, but, states the International Labour Office, governments which have adopted such methods have obtained better results than have those which have relied on the traditional process of deflation, and the official booklet of the League of Nations contains the following comments on the unemployment problems of the world: -
It is noticeable, and probably not without significance, that in Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Italy and Poland, where wages are declining, little or no reduction of unemployment has occurred.
The importance of the home market cannot be over-stated. The great bulk of national production must be bought by the people of the country, the great majority of whom are wage and salary earners. Concentration on promotion of exports is a short-sighted policy. It is of little avail to be able to compete successfully upon the world market, if the purchasing power of the various countries remains low, and if these countries are surrounding themselves with impassable trade barriers.
Those statements support the views held by the Labour party.
There is a big difference between the political opinions held by supporters of the Government and those of honorable senators on this side of the chamber. Honorable senators of the party to which I belong stand for progress, but other honorable senators represent a policy of stagnation.
– That is why the Government is in office to-day!
– That is not a true guide. Rather is it an indication of how people can be misled at elections. As a result of political lying the electors voted against the Labour party, which they would not have done had the truth been laid before them.
– I must ask the honorable senator to moderate his language.
– Lying is a good English word. One who stands on the political platform and tells a deliberate untruth is lying.
– The people must have been very unintelligent if they were deceived by untruths.
– People are very nervous at election time, or when a war is looming, and they are easily swayed by catch-cries. If the war now threatening does eventuate, I suppose that propaganda will be circulated to make people believe that Australia should participate in it. At the elections the Labour party made a sensible proposition for the control of the Commonwealth Bank, and counter-propaganda was employed to alarm the electors. The Government, speaking through the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Casey), flatters itself that the interest bill has been reduced. A paragraph in the budget reads -
The common practice of referring to the ever-increasing interest hill on our national debt makes it necessary to invite attention to the facts. In 1921-22, the aggregate interest bill on Commonwealth and State public debts represented £7 9s. 4d. a head of the population. For 1935-36, the corresponding figure is £7 8s.1d. These figures include all long-term and short-term debt and all exchange charges.
That statement makes a particularly interesting study. The Assistant Treasurer informs us that the debt per head of the population is decreasing. As a matter of fact, it is a few shillings less. The Commonwealth Statistician, Mr. McPhee, has compiled figures showing that within the last five years Commonwealth and State debts have increased at the rate of £27,500,000 annually. As this debt is being discharged at the rate of £7,848,000 a year, the total indebtedness is increasing by approximately £20,000,000 a year. When reference is made to Australia having turned the corner, we should ask when we shall be in a position to pay our debts. At the present rate of progress, the country is, like the Irishman, advancing backwards. The Assistant Treasurer has stated that there is a diminution in the interest bill per head of the population. Presumably, if the debt continues to increase the interest bill will decrease, and some day when the debt is big enough we shall not have to pay any interest at all! From a study of the Assistant Treassurer’s figure, the only conclusion I can draw is that while the debt accumulates the interest grows less.
– That is merely the honorable senator’s interpretation.
– The combined Commonwealth and State debts are increasing by £27,000,000 a year. In the budget there is a brief mention of the accumulated deficit of £17,000,000, and in its financial wisdom the Government has allotted £211,205 this year as a contribution towards its redemption. At that rate of progress, it will take 80 or 90 years to pay off the accumulated deficit, though, in the life of nations, such a thing is, perhaps, of no consequence.
Another minor improvement in the position is in connexion with the tobacco industry. After long consideration, the Government proposes to reduce excise duty on manufactured tobacco. In other words, the Government is to differentiate between home-grown tobacco and foreign tobacco and at the same time to reduce the excise duty on cigarettes. Can there be some private reason for this decision, because requests previously made for a differential excise in regard to home-grown and foreign tobacco were always refused by the Government? Now it is proposed to reduce excise on home-grown tobacco involving a loss of revenue of £90,000. This we endorse, but will the growers get the benefit? Unfortunately, hundreds of growers have been ruined. When the Scullin tariff operated,800 farmers were growing tobacco at Mareeba, but now their numbers have diminished to less than 200. Business men have also been adversely affected, one storekeeper alone having lost £70,000 as a result of the Lyons Government’s interference with the Scullin tariff. The Government now proposes to extend some assistance to the tobacco-growers and reduce the excise on the Australian-grown products. The tobacco-growing industry in Mareeba attracts only one buyer, who, in the absence of competition, can fix his own price: consequently, the unfortunate growers are labouring under grave disabilities. On one visit the buyer will seek tobacco leaf of mahogany colour; the next time he will ask for a. light yellow leaf; and then for an altogether different kind. The growers do not know what is really required by the purchaser. From 22 tobacco-growers in Mareeba. I have a statement which should be interesting to honorable senators, particularly when the claim of the Lyons Government that it has restored prosperity is remembered. It shows that these farmers consigned 7,262 lb. of tobacco to the Combined Growers Tobacco Company. Valuing the tobacco at 6s. per lb. the gross return was £2,178 12s. Excise at 4s. 6d. per lb. amounted to £1,633 19s.; manufacturers’ cost at 9d. per lb., £272 6s. 6d.; selling costs at 6d. per lb., £181 lis.; half of the proceeds deducted, £44 lis. 2d.; freight, £24 3s. 5d.; total, £2,156 lis. Id.; balance to farmers, £22 8s. Id. One farmer sent 42 lb. of tobacco and another 120 lb. They were debited with 5s. 9d. and ls. 5d. respectively. Those men are ruined, and yet the Assistant Treasurer, refers to returning prosperity ! Have the funds of the United Australia party by any chance been augmented by a contribution from the British Australian Tobacco Company ?
– Those farmers took an ordinary business risk.
– The growers took over the land, tilled the soil, planted the tobacco, and built curing barns. As a result of their business failure the man” who sold timber to them was faced with bankruptcy. When one government encourages development of a certain industry by placing a duty upon the imported article, such protection should not be lifted by any succeeding administration without giving those people so occupied an opportunity to reimburse themselves. Many farmers whom the Scullin Government encouraged to grow tobacco have now been driven off their holdings.
– They have the protection of a customs duty of 3s. per lb.
– An acquantance of mine was put into gaol and when I visited him I said that there were not sufficient grounds to warrant his detention. But he said: “Well, I am here and I cannot get my release “. His case is parallel with that of the farmer. Honorable senators say that tobaccogrowers should be satisfied, but many of them have been ruined and are on the dole, all because the Lyons Government reduced the Customs tariff on foreign tobacco.
– Does the honorable senator object to the encouragement of home-grown leaf?
– I do not. The Labour party stands solidly for the development of Australian industries, and the Scullin Government so encouraged the tobacco-growers that 800 men were occupied in the industry at Mareeba. As a result of the intervention of the Lyons Government many of these men have been ruined.
– The honorable senator’s explanation is not very clear.
– It is clear to the men who have been forced to leave their holdings. Surely honorable senators have some sympathy for the unfortunate men who were asked by one Government to grow tobacco and were thendriven out of the industry by a succeeding administration. I cannot believe that the Country party supports the. Government in respect of a policy which has sent so many producers to destruction.
– The Government was not responsible for their leaving their holdings. Does the honorable senator disapprove of the step now made to improve the position of growers?
– I am endeavouring to state the case of men who have lost their all. The growers will see very little of that £90,000.
– It is a step in the right direction.
– After people have been ruined they cannot be expected to be happy about it.
Much has been said about the need for the defence of Australia. On Tuesday Senator A. J. Mclachlan delivered *an eloquent speech on the Italo-Abyssinian dispute, in the course of which he shed what my leader described as “glycerine tears,” and on Monday the Leader of the Senate (Senator Pearce) made a dramatic appeal for assistance for the Mother Country. We on this side can also be dramatic, but our appeal is to the people to stand by their own country.
– Does the honorable senator suggest that we should retake North Queensland?
– Senator Badman’s interjection reminds me that a considerable number of people in the southern States have an entirely false conception of Queensland. Not so long ago a member from South Australia visited Queensland, and as he left the train at South
Brisbane he remarked to a friend, “ This is the first time I have been in a foreign country.” Many people living in distant States look upon North Queensland as a foreign land, and judging by its attitude this Government is indifferent to the conditions of the people in the far north of that State. It is prepared to strain every nerve to fight on behalf of Abyssinia -which is peopled by a race belonging mentally and morally to the dark ages, but it does not seem to be so much concerned about fighting for Australia. We on this side put in a plea that Australians should not die for some foreign country, but should live for their own. Accordingly, we say that this Government might with advantage make some provision to assist the people who are doing so much to develop the northern part of Queensland. Why not help them ? We have appealed to the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) for assistance for Cooktown, the most northern town in Australia. Many years ago it was a thriving goldmining town, but to-day it is in a dilapidated state. A considerable number of good Australian citizens who are still living there are appealing to this Government for assistance to enable them to carry on, so that they may play their part in protecting the northern shores of Australia. As one of the outposts of the Commonwealth, Cooktown should not bo neglected. Apparently government supporters are not interested in my appeal on behalf of Australian citizens, although a day or two ago they gave close attention to the Leader of the Senate when he was appealing for the support of citizens of a foreign country who, we read, on their feast days are accustomed to drinking the blood and eating the flesh of living animals. Senator Payne knows the north, and he will, I am sure, appreciate the force of my appeal on behalf of the people of Cooktown. Recently, the Government voted £500 for the establishment of an aerodrome there. This was expended in the construction of a runway, and a request has now been made for a further £1,000 to complete the work. Surely it should be possible for the Government to provide this small sum from the magnificent budget which the
Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Casey) presented on Monday.
– The honorable senator has exhausted his time.
Debate (on motion by Senator Allan MacDonald) adjourned.
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Bill received from the House of Representatives.
Standing and Sessional Orders suspended.
Bill (on motion by Senator Sir George Pearce) read a first time.
Secondreading.
[4.48]. - I move-
That the bill be now read a second time.
It is a painful duty to be obliged to submit this bill. As honorable senators are aware, the late Senator Sir Walter Kingsmill had a long public and parliamentary life, extending over 38 years, partly in the Parliament of Western Australia and partly in this chamber, of which, for some time, he was President. I regret to inform the Senate that his widow is in ill-health, and is practically without means. All honorable senators will regret that this should be so. One cannot go into the causes. The Government has made inquiries, and has ascertained that the position is as I have stated. It felt that, in view of the long public and parliamentary career of the late honorable senator, the country would not object to provision being made for his widow, who is unable to provide for herself. The circumstances in which she finds herself are no fault of hers. I feel sure that, in view of what I have said, the bill will, in this chamber, receive the same sympathetic consideration as was given to it in the House of Representatives.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.
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Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) agreed to -
That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next, at 3 p.m.
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Brisbane Letter Boxes - Trade Agreement with Belgium - Regulations and Ordinances Committee - Opposition Appointments.
Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce) proposed -
That the Senate do now adjourn.
– While I was speaking on the budget this afternoon the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan) referred to my practice of reading extracts from newspapers to buttress my arguments. I have another to which I now direct his attention. This statement appeared in the Brisbane Courier of the 21st September, under the headings, “ Glorified letter box,” “ New post office wanted in Valley”:-
The cost to the company was nearly £1,000 a year for handling postal matter from the store to the General Post Office, when we have a glorified letter box, or so called post office in the Valley, which could not, or would not, handle our business, said Mr. 0. J. Lansdowne addressing the annual meeting of shareholders of McWhirters, Limited. The company was not alone in having to bear this unnecessary expense, continued Mr. Lansdowne, who said that if the postal authorities would either bring the office up to a state of efficiency, or,’ better still, build a new post office that could cope with the business in the Valley, particularly in regard to the great volume of parcels post business of the Valley merchants, this expenditure pf time and money could be greatly reduced.
I ask the Postmaster-General to give his attention to this matter; the post office at. the Valley is a disgrace to his department.
– The trade agreement with Belgium will expire shortly, and I should like to know whether further arrangements are likely to be made with that country in the near future in regard to the export of barley from Australia.
; -I have to announce that at a meeting of the Federal Parliamentary Labour party, ‘held on Thursday last, the 19th September, Senator Gordon Brown was appointed Deputy Leader of the Opposition and Senator J. V. MacDonald was elected Opposition Whip in the Senate.
I desire to be excused from attendance on the Regulations and Ordinances Committee, and suggest that Senator Cooper be appointed in my place. I have consulted with the honorablo senator and he is agreeable to act on that committee, if appointed.
[4.58]. - In reply to Senator Badman, I oan only say that negotiations are still proceeding with the Government of Belgium in relation to the continuance of the trade agreement with that country. The Government is doing all that it can to protect, in the Belgian market, the interests of Australian growers of barley.
As to the appointments announced by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings), at this stage I shall only say that I hope that, in carrying out his duties as Opposition Whip, Senator J. V. MacDonald will act in a respectful manner, otherwise the Leader or the Deputy Leader of the party may deal severely with him.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Senate adjourned at 4.5D p.m.
Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 26 September 1935, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1935/19350926_senate_14_147/>.