Senate
24 May 1932

13th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. Senate
  2. 13th Parliament
  3. 1932

The President (Senator tie Hon. W. Kingsmill) took the chair at 3 p.m., and road prayers.

page 1229

PAPERS

The following papers were presented: -

Debts, Inter-Governmental - Suspension, for One year -

Protocol In relation to German;, dated 11th August, 1931.

Protocol in relation to Bulgaria, dated 21st January, 1932.

Empire Day - Origin Observance, Ac. - Particulars of certain action taken in Australia.

New Guinea Act - Ordinance No.6 of 1932 - Native Labour.

Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Scat of Government (Administration) Act-

Ordinance No. 14 of 1932 - Advisory Council.

Cotton Industries Bounty Act -

Regulations amended, Statutory Rules 1932. No. 48.

Under the Canberra University College Ordinance 1929-1932 -

Report of the Council of the Canberra University College for the year 1931, together with the Canberra University College Calendar for the year 1932.

page 1229

QUESTION

GLUCOSE

Senator THOMPSON:
QUEENSLAND

-Is the Minis ter representing the Minister for Trade and Customs aware (1) That the prohibition of the importation of glucose has meant a certain market to the maize-growers of the Atherton Tableland of 6,000 tons of maize per annum at £8 per ton? (2) That the recent removal of the embargo has stopped negotiations for a renewal of contract for next year’s supply at the same price ?

In view of the serious result that will accrue to the Atherton Tableland maize-growers - they say it means ruin - will the Minister for Trade and Customs reimpose the embargo with the least possible delay?

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I am sorry thatI am unable to give the honorable senator an answer to-day. I shall, however, bring this matter under the notice of the Minister for Trade and Customs, and will send the honorable senator an answer in due course.

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FEDERAL CAPITAL

Non-Hetdbned Soldier Employees

Senator DOOLEY:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the attention of the Leader of the Senate been draws to an article appearing in to-day’s Canberra Times, reading as follows: -

Alarm for their future and that of their families was general among Canberra workmen yesterday at the reported intention of displacing a number of married residents ofsome years service in order to make way for returned soldiers displaced in the administrative staffs owing to the reorganisation of departments.

In reply to a question yesterday, the Prime Minister assured the members of another place that it was not the intention of the Government to replace civilians by returned soldiers. I should like to know whether the Government intends to follow the same policy, within departments when vacancies occur?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:

– As regards the first part of the honorable senator’s question, I understand that a’ statement was made to-day in another place by the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Parkhill). I shall endeavour to supply a copy of that statement to the honorable senator. The second part of his question is hypothetical, and I ask that he give notice of it.

Senator DOOLEY:

– I give notice for the next day of sitting.

page 1230

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE- FINANCIAL EMERGENCY ACT

Dismissals - Pensions and Maternity Allowance Reductions

Senator DUNN:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Leader of the Senate say (1) How many dismissals in the Commonwealth Public Service were brought about by the previous Government? (2) What was the total amount of the monetary cuts in the pensions of sailors and soldiers and the dependants of ex-members of the Australian Imperial Force made by the previous Government? (3) What was the total amount of the cut in the maternity bonus made by the previous Government? (4) What was the total amount of the curs in old-age and invalid pensions made by the previous Government? (5) What government was in power when the above legislation was passed?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE.The honorable senator notified me this morning of his intention to ask these questions, and I have endeavoured to oh: tain the information he desires. The replies furnished to me are as follow: -

  1. The information sought by the honorable senator is not readily available in respect of the period mentioned, and its preparation would involve a detailed examination of the records of Commonwealth departments and officers in the several States. In the circumstances it is hoped that, for reasons of economy, the honorable senator will not press for the supply of this information. Some information on this point is available in the last annual report of the Public Service Board.
  2. The approximate reduction in annual liability in regard to war pensions as a result of the Financial Emergency Act and Regulations are:

There are other factors which operate, as, for instance,, the deletion of arrears and the preclusion of “ new “ wives and children. As these are in respect of claims which are not now lodged, the actual savings are not ascertainable.

  1. The maternity allowance was reduced from£5 to £4 as from 20th July, 1931 ; also from the 20th July, 1931, an income exceeding £260 excludes a parent from the benefits of the maternity allowance unless the income is proved to be of a casual or temporary nature.
  2. All invalid and old-age pensions were reduced by 2s.6d. per week as from 23rd July, 1931. Pensions payable to inmates of benevolent asylums and. hospitals were reduced from5s.6d. per week to5s. per week from the 23rd July, 1931. All war pensions have been regarded as income for invalid and oldage pension purposes as from the 23rd July, 1931.
  3. The Scullin Government.

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QUESTION

FEDERAL LAND TAX

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– On the 18th

February, Senator Guthrie asked the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. . In connexion with the federal land tax, how many people are employed (a) permanently, (b) part time, in valuing and/or collecting this tax?
  2. What is the total departmental cost in connexion with this tax?
  3. What was the amount of net revenue derived from the tax for the years 1930-31, 1929-30, and 1928-29?
  4. What is the estimated net revenue for the year 1931-32?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable senator -

  1. Number of officers employed in the collection of federal land tax (a) permanently, 225; (b) part time, 175.
  2. Total departmental cost in connexion with this tax -
  1. Amount of net revenue derived from the tax for the years 1930-31, 1929-30, and 1928-29-
  1. Estimated net revenue for the year 1931-32, £1,800,000.

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DEFENCE PROMOTIONS

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP

– On 20th May

Senator Dooley:

asked the following questions, upon notice : -

  1. Are promotions still being made in the Staff Corps, and being denied to the Australian Instructional Corps?
  2. Has the Minister directed that no more promotions are to be made in the Australian Instructional Corps, or has the Military Board so decided?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable senator as follows: -

  1. Promotions are still being mode in the Australian Staff Corps and in the Australian Instructional Corps.
  2. No.

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QUESTION

BANKRUPTCY OF W. C.CLEGG

Senator RAE:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– I desire to ask the Acting Attorney-General (Senator McLachlan) whether, in response to his request, that I should send particulars in connexion with the bankruptcy of Mr.

  1. C. Clegg,he has received a letter from me giving the details required, and whether any action has been taken in the matter ?
Senator McLACHLAN:
Minister in charge of Development and Scientific and Industrial Research · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– The letter has been received, and I have given instructions that inquiries shall be made in the direction suggested by the honorable senator.

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QUESTION

EMPIRE DAY

Honour for the Founder.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– This being Empire Day, I ask the Leader of the Government in the Senate whether he will take into consideration the advisability of recommending that some appropriate honour should be conferred upon the founder of Empire Day - Mr. F. LyonWise, of Western Australia?

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:

– I shall have the matter brought under the notice of the right honorable the Prime Minister.

On the 30th May, Senator E. B. Johnston asked the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. Will the Minister state in what way Empire Day is honoured (a) by the Commonwealth Naval Forces; (b) by the schools, &c, of the Federal Capital Territory?
  2. Have there been forwarded to the Minister by the Patriotic Life and Health-Saving Mission, the following copies of Hansard of the Parliament of Western Australia: - No. 23 of session 1922-23; No. 27 of session 1022-23; and No. 2, fourth session, 1020?
  3. Has the Minister also received from the abovemontioned Mission, copies of the memorandum of the Colonial Secretary in 1923 (Hon. R. S. Sampson, M.L.A. ) and the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly [V. G. Steere, Esq.), which signed document amplifies the Hansard records of the Legislative Assembly of 9th January, 1023, as to Empire Day, &c.
  4. On the 24th August, 1023, did the Senate of the Commonwealth of Australia receive and order to be printed a petition fromelectors, including returned soldiers, sailors and others, and did that petition contain, inter alia, the declarations here following: - “ The Empire Day Patriotic League, in conjunction with the Citizens’ Committee, did, in 1901, dutifully remind His Majesty the King of the fact that Australia is the birthplace of Empire Day. That subsequently His Majesty, through the Imperial authorities and the Governor of the State of Western Australia, was pleased to accord His Royal Mandate of approval . . Umpire Day was originated in Australia in 1897 by an Australian citizen of British birth (Mr. V. Lyon Wise) “?
  5. Has the Minister received from the Patriotic Life said Health-Saving Mission, for the information of applicants, copies of the Address-Petitions approved by Their Majesties ; The Royal Mandates from Their Majesties approving those Petitions; the People’s Patriotic Memorial to the Duke and Duchess of York ; and the Ducal Message appreciating the People’s Patriotic Memorials?
  6. Will the Minister lay the papers, &c, on the table of the Senate, in order that, as to the beforementioned matters, justice may be done to patriotic Australians to our Commonwealth, and to our Empire?

I am now in a position to furnish the following reply : - 1. (a) H.M.A. Ships when in port are dressed with flags over all; (b) Empire Day falls during a school vacation, and the practice of the public schools of the Federal Capital Territory is to celebrate it in conjunction with Commonwealth Day, on the first Wednesday in May. The celebrations in the schools take the form of addresses by prominent public men and women on the significance of Empire Day. The singing of patriotic songs by the children is also made a feature of the celebrations. On Empire Day itself, flags are flown on Commonwealth and other buildings in the Territory.

  1. Yes.
  2. Yes.
  3. Yes.
  4. Yes.
  5. The available papers are being placed on the table of the Library.

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QUESTION

DESKS OF HONORABLE SENATORS

Senator THOMPSON:

– I desire to ask you, sir, if it is permissible for my aesthetic susceptibilities to be offended by the introduction into the Senate of a very questionable bust such as that now facing me on the desk of Senator Dunn?

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– An honorable senator has the right to adorn his desk in any manner he may desire provided due propriety is observed.

Senator E B Johnston:

– If other honorable senators are permitted to bring their josses here we shall be placed in a very unsatisfactory position.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator is not entitled to make observations at question time.

Senator DUNN:

– Following upon the remark of Senator Johnston-

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator is not entitled to base a question upon the remarks of another honorable senator.

page 1232

QUESTION

PRICE OF GREASY WOOL

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

– I ask the Minis ter representing the Minister for Markets -

Has the Minister seen the report of the average prices paid for greasy wool at the last four Brisbane sales, as reported in the Melbourne Herald of Saturday, 21st May, as follows : -

February, 1932 -50,000 bales offered, average price of greasy wool per lb, 8.34d.

March, 1932–30,000 bales, average price of greasy wool, per lb., 8.04d.

April, 1932 - 35,000 bales, average price of greasy wool, per lb.,6.40d.

May, 1932 - 40,000 bales, average price of greasy wool, per lb., 5.58d.

In view of these ruinous prices, will the Government give careful consideration to the bringing into force of the scheme suggested by the Bruce-Page Government in 1922, whereby the export of greasy wool would be by licence, and would not be sold under an average of 8d. per lb. ?

Senator McLACHLAN:
UAP

– The gravity of the position disclosed in the honorable senator’s question has not escaped the notice of the Government. I shall see that the facts are brought under the notice of the Minister. Any scheme submitted by the Graziers Association will receive the sympathetic consideration of the Government.

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QUESTION

SOUTH HEAD MILITARY RESERVE

Will he consider the opening at weekends and holiday times of the South Head military reserve to the amateur fishermen of Sydney to fish off the rocks?

Will he take similar action regarding the military reserve at Middle Head, Sydney? 1 am now in a position to inform the honorable senator as follows : -

and 2. No. The South Head and Middle Head military reserves are part of a fortress area. Owing to the difficulty of safeguarding fortress areas, entry to them isstrictly controlled by regulation. It is not considered advisable to relax the regulation in favour of one section of the public, since this would create a precedent on which further demands mightbe based.

page 1232

CRIMES BILL

Bill returned from the House of Representatives with amendments.

In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives’ amendments) :

Amendment No. 1.

House of Representatives’ amendment -

After clause 1, insert the following new clause: - “ 1a. Section 3 of the principal act is amended, by omitting from the definition of Commonwealth officer’ the words ‘ or military ‘ and inserting in theirstead the words military or air ‘ “.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This is purely a technical amendment, which extends the definition of “ Commonwealth officer “ under the principal act. It provides that a member of the Air Force shall have and exercise the same functions and duties as a member of the naval or military forces.

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 2.

Clause 2 -

Section 30a of the principal act is amended by inserting at the end of sub-section ( 1 ) the following paragraph: - “; (c) Any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated declared by the High Court or the Supreme Court of a State, in pursuance of the next succeeding section, to be an unlawful association.

Section proposed to be amended - 30 a. - (1.) The following are hereby declaredto be unlawful associations, namely: -

House of Representatives’ amendment -

Omit - “at the end of sub-section (I.) the following paragraph: - ; (c) Any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, declared by the High Court or the Supreme Court of a State, in pursuance of the next succeeding section, to be an unlawful association.”. and insert - “ after sub-section ( 1. ) the following subsection : - (1a.) Without limiting the effect of the provisions of the last preceding sub-section, any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, which is, in pursuance of the next succeeding section, declared by the High Court or the Supreme Court of a State to be an unlawful association shall be deemed to be an unlawful association for the purposes of this act.’.”.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This amendment, and that which follows it, are purely drafting amendments, that have been made for the observance of what lawyers term “ abundant caution “, at the suggestion of Senator Brennan on the floor of this chamber. I gave the honorable senator an undertaking that I would have the matter submitted for reconsideration. It is felt that this course is the safest to adopt. The amendments are made in order that it may be perfectly clear that an unlawful association can only be so declared, provided that it falls within the definition of “ unlawful association “ in the principal act.

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 3.

Clause 3 -

Aftersection thirty a of the principal act the following sections are inserted: - “30aa. - (1.) The Attorney-General may apply to the High Court or to the Supreme Court of a State for an order calling upon any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, to show cause why it should not be declared to be an unlawful association. (2.) An application under the last preceding sub-section shall be by summons which may contain averments setting out the facts relied upon in support of the application.”

House of Representatives’ amendment -

Sub-section (2), proposed new section 30aa, omit the words “ shall be by summons which may contain averments setting out the facts relied upon insupport of the application “, and insert - “ (a) shall be made on the ground that the body of persons to which it relates is one which is described in sub-section (1.) of the last preceding section; and

shall be by summons which may contain averments setting out the facts relied upon in support of the application “.

Motion (by Senator McLachlan) proposed -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

– I desire to move -

That the following new sub-section be inserted : - “ 1a. - And any director or shareholder of any company who trades with -

Any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, which by its constitution or propaganda or otherwise advocates or encourages -

i ) the overthrow of the Constitution of the Commonwealth by revolution or sabotage ;

the overthrow by force or violence of the established government of the Commonwealth or of a State or of any other civilized country or of organized govern-, ment ; or

the destruction or injury of property of the Commonwealth or of property used in trade or commerce with other countries or among the States, or which is, or purports to be, affiliated with any organization which advocates or encourages any of the doctrines or practices specified in this paragraph;

Any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated, which by its constitution or propaganda or otherwise advocates or encourages the doing of any act having or purporting to have as an object the carrying out of a seditious intention as defined in section twentyfour a of this act. shall, for the purposes of this act, be deemed to be a member of an unlawful association.”

Many commercial interests to-day have dealings with Soviet Russia. If it be a good thing to penalize the members of a trade union because of the affiliation of their organization with bodies, either inside or outside Australia, whose object is the overthrow of constitutional government, the same principle should apply to other sections of our citizens and taxpayers.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I rise to order. I draw attention to Standing Order No. 224, which deals with amendments made by the House of Representatives tobill’s that originate in the Senate. It reads -

No amendment shall be proposed to an amendment of the House of Representatives that is not relevant thereto; nor can an amendment be moved to the bill unless the same be relevant to, or consequent upon, either the acceptance, amendment, or the rejection of a House of Representatives amendment.

An amendment may be moved only if it be strictly relevant to an amendment of the House of Representatives. I submit that the amendment submitted by Senator Dunn does not fall within that category.

The CHAIRMAN (Senator Plain).The committee is now dealing, not with section 30a, but with the amendment that has been submitted by the House of Representatives. It must, therefore, confine its consideration to that particular amendment.

Senator Dunn:

– Then I take it that I am not in order in moving my amendment at this stage?

The CHAIRMAN:

– The committee will not be called upon to deal with that portion of the principal act to which the honorable senator’s amendment relates. Any amendment proposed must be relevant to an amendment made by the House of Representatives.

Senator Rae:

– May we not submit other amendments of the bill ?

The CHAIRMAN:

– No.

Senator Dunn:

– May we not give notice to have the bill recommitted?

The CHAIRMAN:

– No.

Senator Dunn:

– Does that mean that this is the last of the bill?

The CHAIRMAN:

– The acceptance by the committee of the amendments of the House of Representatives will practically complete the consideration of the bill.

Motion agreed to.

Clause 6 -

After section 30f of the principal act the following sections are inserted: - 30fa. - (1.) The imprint appearing upon any book, periodical . . . shall … be prima facie evidence that the book, periodical . . was issued or published by or on behalf of . . . persons specified in the imprint. (2.) For the purposes of this section “ imprint “ means a statement of the name and address of the printer, and of the publisher ~- 30fb. - (1. ) The Postmaster-General shall cancel any licence issued under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1905-1919 and the regulations thereunder in respect of any broadcasting station which is used or operated by or on behalf of, or in the interests of, any unlawful association, and, where any licence so issued has expired shall refuse to renew the licence. (2.) For the purposes of this section “ ‘broadcasting station “ means a station for the purpose of broadcasting messages by means of wireless telegraphy.

House of Representatives’ amendments -

Amendment No. 4 -

Omit “ issued “, proposed new section 30fa, sub-section ( 1. ) , and insert “ printed “.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

In section 30fa, sub-section 1, the expression “ issued or published “ occurs in relation to hooks, periodicals, newspapers, &c. The definition of “ imprint “ speaks of the printer and publisher. It is desired to make this sub-section consistent with the definition, and, accordingly, the word “ printed “ hasbeen substituted for the word “ issued

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 5 -

Omit ‘” and “, second occurring, proposed new section 30fa, sub-section (2.), and insert “ or “.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

, - I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

The effect of this amendment is to make a statement of the name of the printer an imprint alternatively to the name of the publisher in relation to any book, periodical, newspaper, &c. Prior to the amendment being made, the imprint was constituted by the names of both the printer and the publisher.

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 6 -

Omit “ shall “, proposed new section 30fb, sub-section ( 1 . ) , and insert “ may “.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

This amendment is to make section 30fb enabling rather than mandatory in its terms. It has been necessary to do so by reason of the fact that the section, by a subsequent amendment, has been made rather more comprehensive than previously, and it has been thought proper in view of that fact that the PostmasterGeneral should have a discretion as to whether or not he would cancel a licence for the reasons appearing in the section.

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 7 -

Omit “ which is used or operated by or on behalf of, or in the interests of, any unlawful association “, proposed new sub-section 30fb, sub-section 1, and insert - “ from which is broadcast -

any propaganda or advocacy in favour of any object specified in sub-paragraphs (i) to (iii) of paragraph (a) of sub-section (3) of section 30a of this act; or (ft) any seditious matter”.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment bo agreed to.

This amendment is designed to ensure greater effect in the operation of the power to cancel a wireless broadcasting licence if the station in respect of which the licence is issued broadcasts objectionable matter. In its original form the section operated in any case where a broadcasting station was used by or on behalf of, or in the interests of, any unlawful association. It has been thought that such use or operation would be difficult of proof, and accordingly the grounds of cancellation have now been made to relate to the actual subject-matter broadcast. The subjectmatter which may result in the cancellation of a licence is the propaganda of an unlawful association or any seditious matter.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

– The Government has passed through both Houses a bill relating to wireless broadcasting, and the personnel of the commission has been announced. It includes persons who have been members of another place.

Senator Duncan-Hughes:

– Only one.

Senator DUNN:

– It is possible that, if a speech delivered over the air from 2KY, Sydney, contains matter which, in the opinion of certain listeners-in, is offensive, action will be taken by the commission to interfere with the station.

Senator McLachlan:

– The broadcasting commissioner will have nothing to do with that matter. This provision vests in the Postmaster-General discretionary power, instead of, as formerly, making action by the Minister mandatory.

Senator DUNN:

– I am a bit dubious about possible happenings to 2KY, the Sydney Labour station, and. I should like to have the assurance of the Acting Attorney-General that it will not be penalized. Otherwise I shall vote against the motion.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I regret that I am unable to give the honorable senator the required assurance. If a trade union, or any other body, violates the law, it will have to be dealt with by the Postmaster-General. Under the bill as it passed this chamber the Postmaster-General was obliged to prosecute. Under this amendment he is given an opportunity to warn wireless stations not to broadcast seditious matter.

SenatorRAE (New South Wales) [3.41]. - While the amendment moved in another place may have slightly improved the original provision, I cannot see that it affords any reasonable protection to these wireless stations. According to the bill, the Postmaster-General will decide whether matters are seditious or otherwise unlawful.

Senator McLachlan:

– The PostmasterGeneral cannot make any broadcast matter lawful or unlawful. That is defined in the act itself.

Senator RAE:

– But he can give his interpretation as to whether a statement over the air is seditious or otherwise, and being a member of the Ministry, his interpretation is likely to be one-sided. He may class an utterance as seditious, and before his decision can be upset, the opportunity to deliver the goods is gone. Day after day, this Government declaims against the political control of enterprise. Political interference in State enterprise is a small matter compared with the interference with the rights and liberty of the citizens by a partisan Minister. It is a deliberate breach of the fine spun theories of honorable senators opposite about the glorious liberties of the people.

Senator McLachlan:

– The word “ may “ has been substituted for “ shall.”

Senator RAE:

– That is an improvement to a most barbarous provision, but it is still objectionable to leave it. to the discretion of a partisan Minister to say whether or not an utterance over the wireless should be the subject of a prosecution. When we were dealing with the Australian Broadcasting Commission Bill, we were told that the PostmasterGeneral would merely look after the technical side of broadcasting and that all other matters would be controlled by the commission. In other words, an impartial tribunal would decide such matters. This clause, however, provides that a Minister who must necessarily be partisan, may come to a biased decision with regard to the renewal of a licence. Why set up a broadcasting commission and deprive it of this function?

Senator Sir HAL COLEBATCH (Western Australia) [3.48]. - I understand that if a wireless station broadcasts propaganda of an unlawful association, the Postmaster-General can cancel its licence, but only after the association has been declared unlawful by the court. There we have the safeguard of the court stepping in. Undoubtedly, the broadcasting of seditious propaganda should be suppressed, but I want to he clear on the point as to whether the amendment cuts out the reference to the court and makes the Postmaster-General the final arbiter. If so, is there to be no appeal? Is it right to leave to the Postmaster-General unfettered discretion to decide whether certain matter is seditious or otherwise, and to cancel a licence? I should like to know whether the holder of a licence will have any chance of appealing against the decision of the Minister or whether he can have his case heard before a court?

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– In the form in which it left this chamber, proposed new section 30fb read -

The Postmaster-General shall cancel any licence issued under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1905-1919 and the regulations thereunder in respect of any broadcasting station which is used, or operated by, or on behalf of, or in the interests of, any unlawful association …

The House of Representatives asks us to strike out the words “ which is used or operated by, or on behalf of, or in the interests of, any unlawful association “, with a view to inserting in lieu thereof the following words : -

  1. . from which is broadcast -

    1. any propaganda or advocacy in favour of any object specified in subparagraphs (i) to (iii) of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1.) of section 30a of this act; or
    2. any seditious matter.

It has also substituted the word “ may “ for the word “ shall “. Section 30a of the principal act led to a discussion between Senator Brennan and myself whether or not it operated as a definition section. That section sets out all the things which make an association unlawful. The House of Representatives has added a new paragraph to cover “ any seditious matter”. Seditious matter is defined by section 24a of the Crimes Act. Proposed new section 30fb, as it left this chamber, contained the words, “ and where any licence so issued has expired, shall refuse to renew the licence “. That provision another place regards as too drastic. Honorable members there consider that it is sufficient that the PostmasterGeneral should first warn an offending station, and then, should heed not be paid to that warning, he is empowered to refuse to renew the licence. Should he refuse to renew a licence without a sufficient reason, the holder of the licence may have recourse to the common law, in which case the PostmasterGeneral would be responsible for his action.

Senator Sir Hal Colebatch:

– Could he be brought before the court?

Senator McLACHLAN:

– Yes. As this amendment is a relaxation of the stringent nature of the provision as it left this chamber, I cannot understand why honorable senators opposite should object to it. On further reflection, it seems to me that this discretion should rest with the Postmaster-General, and I, therefore, advise the committee to accept the amendment.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

– The amendment made by another place may, as the Minister says, be an improvement; but I have my suspicions about it. In New South Wales political propaganda has at times been broadcast as news by broadcasting stations 2FC and 2BL. It may be that, during the temporary absence of the officer in charge of a broadcasting station, propaganda which is considered undesirable is broadcast ; and, although the authorities controlling the station might not be responsible, they would be liable to punishment under this legislation.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– Is it permissible in one act of Parliament to amend another act dealing with an altogether different matter? To be more specific: Can we, in an amendment of the Crimes Act, amend the Wire- . less Telegraphy Act? If such amendments are permissible, it would be possible in one act of Parliament to amend half a dozen other acts, and a state of confusion would arise.

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– This is a punitive provision under the Crimes Act, whereas the reference to the Wireless Telegraphy Act is merely descriptive.

Motion agreed to.

Amendment No. 8 -

Omit “ shall “, proposed new section 30fb, sub-section 1, insert “may”.

Motion (by Senator McLachlan) agreed to;-

That the amendment be agreed to. Amendment No. 9 -

Omit sub-section 2 of proposed new section 30fb, insert the following sub-section : -

  1. For the purposes of this section - broadcasting station ‘ means a station for the purpose of broadcasting messages by means of wireless telegraphy; seditious matter ‘ means any propaganda or matter disclosing a seditious intention as defined by section 24a of this act.”

Motion (by Senator McLachlan) agreed to -

That the amendment be agreed to.

Resolutions reported.

Motion (by Senator McLachlan) proposed -

That the report be now adopted.

Senator DUNN:
New South. “Wales

– I move -

That the bill be recommitted for the purpose of considering the following amendment: -

Without limiting the effects of the provisions of the last preceding sub-section any body of persons incorporated or unincorporated which is by reason of the next succeeding sub-section declared by the High Court or the Supreme Court of a State to be an unlawful association shall be deemed an unlawful association for the purposes of this act.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill:

– Is this an amendment contained in the message?

Senator DUNN:

– Yes, Mr. President.

Senator McLachlan:

– I submit that the amendment proposed by the honorable senator is not relevant. Standing Order 224 provides that when a bill has been returned with amendments from another place, the discussion shall be confined to those amendments, and that any amendment proposed must be relevant to the amendment made by another place. In the committee stage of the bill the Chairman ruled that an amendment on exactly the same lines as that now suggested by the honorable senator could not be moved. I do not think that it is competent to discuss it now.

The PRESIDENT:

– In view of the statement of the Minister, Senator Dunn was distinctly wrong in assuring me that the amendment is contained in the message. The amendment is out of order.

Senator Dunn:

– Mr. President-

The PRESIDENT:

– If the honorable senator wishes to discuss my ruling, he may only do so on a motion of dissent.

Senator Rae:

– I take it that the motion for the adoption of the report is open for discussion.

The PRESIDENT:

– That is so.

Senator Rae:

– My object in rising is to direct your attention, sir, to the fact that the amendment was ruled out of order by the Chairman, on the ground that it could not be inserted where the honorable senator suggested. If it is competent for the Senate to debate the motion for the adoption of the report, it must also be competent for it to reject it if a majority of the Senate should so desire. That being the case, surely the object in moving for the recommittal of the clause is to enable us to retrace our steps, and to give the Senate one more opportunity to consider a measure of vital importance.

The PRESIDENT:

– I cannot allow the honorable senator to further discuss a point of order which has already been decided by the Chair. Furthermore, when I asked Senator Dunn if his amendment was relevant to the message, he said it was. That was not true. In these circumstances I cannot permit any discussion of the amendment : why it was brought before the committee or why it was ruled out of order. I understand that it was ruled out of order by the Chairman, and that his ruling was not questioned. I cannot, therefore, allow any further discussion on that point.

Senator Rae:

– I had no intention to discuss the amendment. I submit that in debating this motion honorable senators are entitled to say whether or not the measure is acceptable to them.

The PRESIDENT:

– That is not so. The message related to certain amendments which were open to discussion in committee. The general principles of the bill cannot be debated on the motion for the adoption of the report. Any objection in relation to the time at which the report should be adopted would be relevant, but any reference to a proposed amendment would not.

SenatorRae. - I thought that on this motion honorable senators were permitted to discuss the whole measure.

The PRESIDENT:

– No.

Senator Rae:

– Then I think that it would be an. advantage to the whole community if the report were adopted this day six months, and if an- amendment to that effect is in order, I shall move accordingly. Due consideration should be given to panic legislation of this . character, and I think it would be advantageous if the adoption of the report were postponed to give those interested an opportunity to peruse the arguments advanced for and against the measure and thus allay that feeling of alarm and panic that is in existence with respect to the action of the Government in rushing this legislation through. I move as an amendment -

That the report be . adopted this day six months.

Senator McLachlan:

– I direct your attention, sir, to Standing Order No. 223, which provides that -

The amendments made by the House of Representatives shall be agreed to either with or without amendments; or disagreed to; or the consideration thereof postponed ; or the bill be ordered to be laid aside.

It will be seen that the Senate may agree to amendments made by another place with or without amendments, disagree with them, postpone their consideration or order the bill to be laid aside. Standing Order No. 225 provides -

When amendments made by the House of Representatives, in bills which shall have first passed the Senate, shall have been agreed to by the Senate without amendments, a message shall be sent informing the House of Representatives thereof; and if they shall have been agreed to with amendments, the bill shall be returned with a schedule of such amendments in a message desiring the concurrence of the House of Representatives therein . . .

The PRESIDENT:

– In committee the Chairman of Committees ruled that the amendment submitted by Senator Dunn was irrelevant to the message of the House of Representatives and, therefore, could not be considered. The committee stage has passed, but if honorable senators wish to disagree with the motion for the adoption of the report they may do so. An honorable senator, however, is not entitled at this stage to submit an amendment of an amendment made by another place, nor can such an amendment now be discussed. The question before the Chair is “ That the report be now adopted “, the essence of the motion being the word “ now “.

Senator Rae:

– Do you, sir, refuse to accept my amendment!

The PRESIDENT:

– Yes. I suggest to the honorable senator that if he wishes to oppose the adoption of the report he should vote against the motion.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

– In speaking to the motion for the adoption of the report, I desire to refer to an observation which you, sir. made, the inference being that I had told a lie. I am not in the habit of telling lies, and I refuse to allow you, sir, notwithstanding your distinguished position, to say that I am a liar. I ask that that remark be withdrawn.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order !

Senator DUNN:

– I realize that you are the custodian of the rights of honorable senatorsin this chamber.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order ! The honorable senator is discussing something that is wholly foreign to the question now before the Senate. He must either discuss the motion for the adoption of the report or resume his seat.

Senator DUNN:

– I refuse to allow it to be recorded in Hansard that I have been tolling an untruth. I refuse to take that from you.

The PRESIDENT:

– I made no such imputation. The information that the honorable senator gave me.was - no doubt involuntarily - inaccurate, but it was inaccurate. The honorable senator must obey my ruling, and when I rise to order he must resume his seat at once.’

Question - That the report be now adopted - put. The Senate divided. (President - Senator Hon. W. Kingsmill.)

AYES: 15

NOES: 5

Majority……. 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Report adopted.

page 1239

QUESTION

BUST OF J. T. LANG

Senator THOMPSON:

– Earlier in the proceedings, Mr. President, I directed your attention to a bust on the desk of an honorable senator. It is particularly offensive to me. Am I in order in asking that it be removed?

The PRESIDENT:

– If anything brought into the chamber by an honorable senator is offensive to any honorable senator, he is entitled to direct attention to it and to ask that it be removed. As the bust referred to is objectionable to the honorable senator it must be removed.

Senator DUNN:

– Then I submit, in writing, the following motion of dissent from your ruling, Mr. President: -

That the decision of the President be dissented from.

Ordered -

That the question requires immediate determination.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill:

– One of the underlying principles of parliamentary practice is that no member shall say or do anything that is offensive or objectionable to his fellow members. Guidance on this point is furnished by rulings of former Presidents of the Senate. At page 34, volume 1, of Rulings of the President of the Senate (Sir R. C. Baker), from 1903 to 1906, under the heading “Procedure. In Cases not provided for. President to stale procedure” , I find the following: - 277. On the 18th May, 1904 (H., p. 1262- 1266), the Senate adopted, inter alia, the following recommendation of the Standing Orders Committee: - “ That in any case which may arise which has not been provided for by the rules, or in which the rules appear insufficient or manifestly incorrect, the President shall state to the Senate (after mature consideration if possible), what, in his opinion, is the best procedure to adopt; in the event of no objection being taken by the Senate, this shall be the procedure until altered by the Senate.”

As I have already said, an underlying principle of the conduct of honorable senators is that they shall not do or say anything that is offensive to their fellow senators. I intend to uphold that principle to the fullest possible extent. For that reason I ruled that, objection having been taken by Senator Thompson to the presence in the Senate chamber of this work of art, on the ground that it was offensive to him, Senator Dunn was not in order in exhibiting such work of art on the desk in front of him, and that it must be removed. It is from that ruling that the honorable senator has moved to disagree.

Question - That the decision of the President be dissented from - put. The Senate divided. (President - Senator Hon. W. Kingsmill.)

AYES: 3

NOES: 15

Majority . . . . 12

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

The bust was then removed from the chamber.

page 1239

COTTON INDUSTRIES BOUNTY’ BILL

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The 1930 Cotton Industries Bounty Act provided for the following bounties until the 30th September, 1932:- Seed cotton, 1½d. per lb. on high grades and d.’ per lb. on low grades. Cotton yarn, $d. per count per lb. up to a maximum of ls. per lb. from count 41 upwards. Each year from the 1st October, 1932, these rates were to be progressively reduced by one-sixth of the full bounty, and all bounties were to cease after the 30th September, 1936. The Financial Emergency Act 1931, imposed a further reduction of 20 per cent, on these bounties.

The bill provides for the total abolition of the bounty on all cotton yarn delivered from a factory after the 30th June, 1932, for two reasons, namely: (1) To relieve the Commonwealth budget of the heavy and rapidly-increasing burden of yarn bounty payments, which rose from £30,001 in 1926-1927 to an estimate of £120,000 in 1931-1932; and (2) because it is a well-established practice to replace a bounty with a customs duty in cases, such as cotton yarn, where the local production is substantially meeting Australian requirements. The bounty on yarn has accordingly been replaced by equivalent customs duties under Item 392(a) - cotton yarns n.e.i. - which were tabled on the 3rd instant. The duties give to the manufacturer practically the same amount of protection that he enjoyed under the bounty. There is practically no difference between these proposals and the recommendation of the Tariff Board made in December, 1930, the assistance under the former amounting to 8.15d. per lb. compared with 8.84d. per lb. On the same price basis for count 16, the total assistance now proposed is much less than the Scullin Government’s final policy; but, despite that fact, the Queensland Cotton Board and the various spinners have signified their satisfaction with it. The Scullin Government’s final assistance, including primage, ad valorem duty, flat rate duty and bounty, amounted to 14.31d. per lb., whereas this proposal amounts to 9.05d. per lb.

The Government has arranged for the spinners to buy all the Queensland 1932 crop at a minimum of 7jd. per lb., plus grade and staple premiums - or only Jd. per lb. less than last year’s minimum.

The Government has also arranged that the spinners shall not increase their present selling prices for yarns as from the 1st July, 1932, by more than the cancelled bounty on any count. Spinners who have not already reduced last year’s prices by 10 per cent, will make such a reduction before adding the cancelled bounty. The spinners have undertaken (a) not to increase the new maximum selling prices unless the present costs of production are increased by circumstances beyond their control; and (6) to sell to outside customers at prices equivalent to those at which all yarns are charged to the spinners’ own knitting or weaving departments.

Senator Rae:

– Who is to be the judge as to whether prices should be increased?

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The producers of the yarns.

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- As the Bounty Act provided that the growers should pay to employees the rates of wages prescribed by the Arbitration Court or wages tribunals, I should like to know if, under the altered arrangements, the position of employees will be safeguarded. We shall all be pleased if the growers get the full benefit of the protection now afforded, but at the same time I should like to have some assurance that the employees will not suffer.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– This bill does not interfere with the bounty on seed cotton.

Senator DOOLEY:
New South Wales

– There are two matters upon which I should like to have information. The Scullin Government’s proposals, I understand, represented assistance to the growers of 14.31d.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– That included the bounty and primage.

Senator DOOLEY:

– It is now proposed to reduce the protection to 9.05d. per lb., including primage, a reduction of approximately £d. per lb. compared with the assistance afforded by the Scullin Government. The Tariff Board’s recommendation was, I think, 8.84d. per lb., but the Government decided to fix it at 8.15d.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– Those figures do not include primage in either -case.

Senator DOOLEY:

– Why did not the Government follow the Tariff Board’s recommendation and make the duty 8.84d.?

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– When the original proposals were submitted by the Tariff Board primage was . 36d. per lb. The board recommended an ad valorem duty of 3.15d., and a bounty of 5.33d., or a total of 8.84d. When the Government’s proposals were introduced the primage was lower than it is now; . 36d. as against . 90d. The ad valorem duty is 3.15d., and the proposed duty to take the place of the bounty, 5d., making the total 9.05d.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1241

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1932-33

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended and bill read a first, time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is a proposal to grant supply to carry on the services of the Commonwealth for the first two months of the coming financial year. The amount which the Senate is asked to appropriate includes the following sums for ordinary services : -

The items making up these sums are based on the appropriations passed by Parliament for the present year and represent approximately one-sixth of the appropriation with further provision to cover the first pay day in September.

In addition the usual provisions are made for refunds of revenue and advance to the Treasurer. The amount set down for refunds of revenue is £200,000, and for advance to the Treasurer, £1,000,000. This latter item is required mainly to cover exchange on remittances to London, and also to carry on uncompleted works in progress on the 30th June, 1932.

Before the expiration of the period of twomonths which is covered by this bill, it is anticipated that the budget and Estimates will be brought down to Parliament. Perhaps honorable senators will be interested to know what is the budget position, so far as we can forecast it, for the present year. When the budget was brought down on the 10th July, the estimated deficit was £5,176,000. At that time the Hoover moratorium was discussed, but had not finally been settled. The budget was accordingly based on the existing interest liabilities, but it was indicated that if the Hoover plan were brought into operation the relief would be £4,028,000, and the budget deficit would be reduced to £1,148,000. On the revenue side, so far as we can see at the present time, the indications are that there will be decreases in customs and excise,sales - tax, post office and railways revenue. ‘On the other hand we expect increases in income tax revenue and in profits from the note issue. The arrears of income tax assessments brought forward into this year proved very much larger than anticipated and heavy collections were received in the first half of the year. A substantial increase on the budget estimate is assured. It is remarkable how the people have responded, and how resilient the country has proved, notwithstanding depressed conditions. The net loss of revenue will be offset by increases in other items. There will probably be an improvement on the revenue side of our account by a little over £1,000,000.

On the expenditure side there will be some increases which could not be foreseen when the budget was framed. Unemployment relief works, for which no provision was made in the budget, will account for £250,000. There will also be increases in old-age pensions, war pensions, road grants to States, and contributions to sinking fund. After allowing for some decreases, notably in the post office, the net increase in expenditure will he somewhere about £1,000,000. The present indications are, therefore, that we shall not exceed the budget deficit estimated to be £1,148,000, and may finish up the year a little better than that.

Senator J B Hayes:

– Has the expenditure incurred as the result of the default by New South Wales been taken into account in these figures?

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– No, these figures give the Commonwealth position only, and do not take into account any money which has been found on behalf of New South Wales. I think we can congratulate ourselves generally upon the fact that the budget is no worse than it is in the very depressing conditions in which we find ourselves to-day.

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- This bill makes provision for the general administration of the various services of the Commonwealth and on that account no objection can be taken to it. But I am disappointed not to find in it some provision for the relief of the unemployed.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– That has already been dealt with in another bill, an amendment of which will be before the Senate this afternoon.

Senator BARNES:

– I know that the Government has already appropriated a sum of money for the relief of the unemployed, but if we can be guided by what we see in the press I think we can safely say that it is only a drop in the ocean compared with the amount needed to afford ample relief for the unemployed in our midst to-day. I hope that in the amending bill to which Senator Greene has referred, further provision will be made for them.

Senator Sir HAL COLEBATCH (Western Australia) [4.55]. - I do not know the position of the special grants to South Australia and Tasmania, but the Western - Australian grant expires on the 30th June next, and I should like to know if any provision is made in this bill for the continuance of the grant.

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The Government is as fully alive, to the dire position of the unemployed in this country and as anxious to find some cure for unemployment as is Senator Barnes. In co-operation with the States, the sum of £3,000,000 is now being raised to provide a certain amount of relief. When the matter was discussed at the last Premiers Conference, the raising of this sura was regarded merely as an interim measure, pending the development of a fuller scheme, which is to be debated at a conference to be held in Canberra on 21st June next. At that conference the whole question of unemployment will be dealt with in a more comprehensive way. The expenditure of £3,000,000 was merely intended to tide us over the winter.

Provision is never made in general appropriation bills for special grants to the States. These grants are always covered by special appropriations covering a term of years. It is true that the Western Australian grant expires on the 30th June next, but that is a matter which, in common with other matters affecting other States, I regret to say, must be considered carefully at the forthcoming Premiers Conference. If the financial circumstances of the Commonwealth permit it, provision will have to be made for all the States that find themselves in the same position as Western Australia.

Question- resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read, a second time and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate.

page 1242

WAR PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL 1932

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to appropriate from the Consolidated Revenue Fund a further £10,000,000 for the payment of war pensions. The measure does not deal in any way with the rates of pensions, or the conditions governing the granting of pensions; it merely asks Parliament to make provision for the payment of those pensions which have been, or will be, granted under the Australian Soldiers Repatriation Act relating to war pensions. The last appropriation was made by Parliament in August, 1930, the amount then appropriated being £10.000,000. The balance of the appropriation unexpended at 30th April last was £1,483,795, which is insufficient to cover the payments that will become due while Parliament is in recess.

The usual practice of asking Parliament to vote a lump sum has been followed, and the amount of £10,000,000 has accordingly been included in the bill.

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- Apparently, this measure, unlike a supply bill, does not cover a period of twelve months, but appropriates a sum of £10,000,000 to be used as required until expended.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– That is so. The procedure adopted on this occasion is similar to that which has been followed for many years.

Senator BARNES:

– I desire to make one or two observations, regarding war pensions.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon W Kingsmill:

– If the honorable senator’s remarks have anything to do with the rates of pensions, they will not be in order, because the Minister has already said that the bill has nothing to do with the rates of pensions or the conditions under which they are payable.

Senator BARNES:

– Some extraordinary things appear to be taking place in connexion with war pensions. The other day I was informed of the case of a widow whose two sons were killed at the war, and in respect of whom she received a pension of 10s. a. week each. She has a daughter, but the girl is unfit for work. When the department discovered that the mother had about £250 in the bank, it disallowed the pension which she drew in respect of her deceased sons. I do not know whether that is a matter with which I may deal now.

The PRESIDENT:

– It is not.

Senator BARNES:

– Then I shall have to bring it up on another occasion.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1243

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS APPROPRIATION

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move - That the bin be now read a second time.

This measure is identical with that which we have just passed, in that it seeks to provide from the Consolidated Revenue the sum of £10,000,000. In this case, however, the appropriation is for the payment of invalid and old-age pensions. The measure has nothing whatever to do with the rate of pensions or the conditions under which they are payable. The usual practice is for an appropriation of £10,000,000 to be made from the Consolidated Revenue Fund, and to be placed from time to time in the trust account from which the pensions are paid. The total appropriation for this purpose up to date is £131,250,000, of which £129,857,370, had actually been expended up to the 30th April, leaving a balance of £1,392,630. Since the rate of expenditure is now more than £11,000,000 a year, it will be seen that that balance will be insufficient to meet the payments which will become due to the end of June next. It is, therefore, necessary to appropriate a further amount of £10,000,000. 1

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– I should like to know whether there is any likelihood of .the rate of interest on the capital value of property held by a pensioner, which is now regarded as income, being reduced. Should an applicant for a pension have money in the bank, or possess a home, 10 per cent, of that money, or of the capital value of the home, is taken into account by the department when assessing the applicant’s income. I should be glad to know whether the rate is likely to be reduced below 10 per cent.

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– So far as I was able to hear the honorable senator’s remarks, they appeared to me to be irrelevant to the bill. On another occasion, I shall endeavour to give him the information he desires. >

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1243

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION BILL 1930-31.

Bill received from the House of Repre sentatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders aus

FirstReading.

Ottawa Conference: Singapore Naval

Base - Discussion of Tariff Schedules.

Motion (by Senator Greene) proposed -

That the bill be now read a first time.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– The first reading of this bill provides an opportunity to inquire whether the delegates to the Ottawa Conference have received, or will receive, any instructions in connexion with the Singapore Naval Base. If anything is to be said on this matter, I urge that the delegates be instructed to make it clear that, in the best interests of Australia, the work at the Singapore Naval Base should be proceeded with, and that if further money is required for its completion and equipment, Australia would assist, according to her ability to pay. The construction of a naval base at Singapore does not conflict . with the decisions of the Washington Conference. Owing to its geographical position, a naval base at Singapore affords a wonderful protection to Australia. Singapore is the converging point of a number of trade routes, and as on land -the nation which holds the point where a number of mountain passes converge can be said to hold the passes themselves, so a nation which controls the converging point of a number of searoutes can be said, practically to control those trade routes also. Should the subject come up for discussion at the conference, our delegates should make it known that Australia desires the work to be completed as early as possible, and to that end is willing to share in the cost, if necessary. The world position is not without its dangers. Mr. Lloyd George said recently that Europe is an armed camp. In that case, while doing all we can to strengthen the League of Nations with a view to bringing about world peace, we should prepare for possibilities.

It appears that Parliament is to adjourn without any decision being arrived at in connexion with the Government’s tariff proposals, although fiscal matters were prominent in the last election campaign. Six months have elapsed since the election took place. There should be no unnecessary delay in discussing the tariff schedule. The attitude of the previous Government in delaying consideration- of the tariff was strongly opposed by honorable senators on this side of the chamber, who now find that the Government they are supporting appears to be adopting a similar policy. As the public demand an easing of tariff burdens so that this country may make better economic and industrial progress, it is the duty of this Government to give Parliament an opportunity to go into the whole tariff in order to remove some of the heavy burdens at present being carried by certain industries. When an appeal was made to the people, they returned a government which had promised to preserve a better balance between those industries which in the past have had too much protection and certain other industries struggling under the burden of excessively high tariff duties. I trust thatthe Government will bring the tariff before this chamber at least before Christmas. If we continue to live on promises we shall be included in that class of despised politicians which we have condemned. Unless prompt action is taken we shall be told that our promises’ have been dishonoured. I urge the Government to take stock of its position and introduce at the earliest possible moment a substantial instalment of the tariff, which will enable us to give effect, to some extent, to some of the undertakings we entered into prior to the last general election,.

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · Western Australia · UAP

[5.22]. - I can assure the honorable senator that the Senate will have every opportunity to deal with the tariff before very long. The Government proposes to give full effect to its election promises, notwithstanding the rumours and insinuations to the contrary. If the honorable senator will look up the record of prohibitions in force when this Government took office, he will find that at least 50 have been removed. He should also realize that further reductions in customs duties, dating back to the 1928 tariff, have been made, owing to resolutions of the previous Government having lapsed.’ These reductions, which are substantial, are not mentioned by our critics. In addition, the Government has considered every Tariff Board report that has come to hand, in accordance with the promises made to the electors, and further reports will soon be available which will enable the Government to deal in a substantial manner with other tariff items. Before the end of this year the honorable senator will have no reason to believe that the Government and its supporters have not honoured their promises in the way they said they would be honoured.

I can assure the honorable senator that the Government fully realizes the importance to Australia of the Singapore Base. At present we do not know if a convenient opportunity will arise to enable our representatives to submit the views of the Government on this matter to the representatives of other dominion governments. We are, however, fully seised of its importance, and if the opportunity occurs, our representatives will advocate its early completion.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

– I trust that Australia’s representatives at the forthcoming Imperial Economic Conference at Ottawa will be guided by Christian principles, and refuse to have anything to do with the completion of the Singapore Naval Base, or anything that is likely to cause friction between the nations. Quite recently the Reverend J. Burton, the retiring President of the New South Wales Methodist Conference, said, “ Armaments are not protective but provocative, and therein lies the danger to civilization “. I trust that the delegates to the Ottawa conference will devote their attention to problems of, international trade and commerce, the means of relieving unemployment, and the cancellation of war debts instead of wasting their time on matters such as the Singapore Naval Base.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time. lt is unnecessary for me to explain the bill at length. Honorable senators are aware that the money to be appropriated has already been spent under the line in the estimates “ Advance to Treasurer “. Of the amount of £1,835,668. £1,830,977 Ls for ordinary departmental expenditure and war services, and £4,691 for additions, new works and buildings. Inclu ded in the total amount to be appropriated is £1,571,443 to meet increases in exchange payments which could not bo foreseen.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without requests or debate.

page 1248

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND BUILDINGS) BILL 1930-31

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended, and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE (New South Wales - Assistant Minister [5. 34]. - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

In moving the second reading of the previous measure I mentioned that £4,691 was spent on additions, news works and buildings. That amount is being appropriated under this measure.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1248

LOAN (UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF WORKS) BILL (No 2)

Bill received from the House of Representatives.

Standing and Sessional Orders suspended and bill read a first time.

Second Reading

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is a small measure, the purpose of which is to amend the act passed recently by the Senate. As honorable senators know, the object of that legislation was to raise the sum of £3,000,000 for expenditure under conditions that were laid down by the States and the Commonwealth. This proposal aims at the raising of money in some cases, and generally, at expenditure to the best advantage. The amount provided for under the act is to be neither increased nor diminished. Under the original proposal, the money was to be borrowed from, or through, the Commonwealth Bank on terms approved by the Loan Council in April last, principally by the issue of treasury-bills discounted at 4 per cent. Except in the case of New South Wales, it was to be expended by the Governments of the States, or granted or lent to local bodies to be expended by them on substantial works, preferably those of a reproductive character.

The scheme is to be amended by providing that, as far as possible, the money shall be raised by local governing bodies and other statutory authorities constituted under Commonwealth and State laws. Such borrowings are to be arranged by the statutory bodies directly from, or through, the Commonwealth Bank, and these bodies are to be responsible for the repayment of the principal amount. Where the local bodies cannot raise loans in that way, they may be assisted by the Government concerned by grants or by loans, or by both, the object being that the money shall be spent principally through the local bodies rather than through government departments.

Where moneys are borrowed directly by statutory bodies in New South Wales, the Commonwealth may contribute towards the interest to an extent not exceeding 4 per cent, per annum.’ Where moneys are borrowed by statutory bodies in other States,- the Commonwealth and the State concerned may each contribute towards the interest to the extent of not more than 2 per cent, per annum.

As far as possible, expenditure under the scheme is to be on reproductive works, in a manner calculated to provide the greatest possible amount of employment. Works which may be recommended and approved will include the following: -

  1. Works to be undertaken by -local governing bodies and other statutory authorities out of moneys to be directly borrowed by them or through the Commonwealth Bank. The terms of all loans for such bodies will require the approval of the Commonwealth Treasurer.
  2. Works to be undertaken by local governing bodies and other statutory authorities out of moneys lent to them by the States (or in New South Wales by the Commonwealth) or out of moneys granted to them by the States (or in New South Wales by the Commonwealth), or partly out of moneys lent and partly out of moneys granted.
  3. Works to be undertaken by farmers and others out of moneys to be lent to them by the States (or in the case of New South Wales by the Commonwealth).
  4. Works to be undertaken by Commonwealth or State Governments out of moneys borrowed by them under this scheme.

In any case where money is lent by the Commonwealth in New South Wales, any interest payable by the person or body to whom it is lent, and any repayments in respect of it are to be payable to the Commonwealth.

Where similar loans are made by a State out of Commonwealth moneys, any repayment of principal, or any payment of interest to the State, is to be repaid by the State to the Commonwealth.

Honorable senators will notice that this alteration of the ‘law is advantageous in several ways. First, it enables the money to be raised directly by the authorities concerned, without adding in any way to the floating debt of the Commonwealth, and at the same time it gives to local governing bodies just as full facilities as though the money was raised by the Commonwealth and the States. In other words, the methods adopted under the original proposal are to be extended and improved. I feel sure that this will have the approval of every member of the Senate.

Senator Sir Hal Colebatch:

– How does the Minister reconcile the contribution by the Commonwealth of interest to the extent of 4 per cent, per annum in New South Wales, and of only 2 per cent, elsewhere?

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The reason for that is obvious. New South Wales refused to come into the scheme, consequently the Commonwealth had to find the whole of the money to be expended in that State. In such a case this measure a.authorizes the Commonwealth to forego interest to the extent of 4 per cent. Where a State is finding half the money, it is authorized to contribute towards the interest to the extent of 2 per cent., the remaining 2 per cent, being borne by the Commonwealth.

Senator Sir Hal Colebatch:

– Does that mean that more is being done for New South Wales than for other States?

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– No. Until matters are sorted out in New South Wales, that State will not be in a position to raise a single penny on its own behalf. In all cases the amount of interest that may be foregone in favour of a local governing body or other statutory authority is a. maximum of 4 per cent.

Senator Sir Hal Colebatch:

– The Commonwealth is taking on its shoulders the New South Wales burden.

Senator GREENE:
NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

-For the time being, yes.

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

– This method of relieving unemployment can be considerably improved. In the past, relief expenditure was incurred where it was considered warranted. In this case, however, local governing bodies, or even individuals, may be entrusted with the expenditure so long as they absorb some of the unemployed. Under such conditions, we can hardly escape from the position that some local authorities, which have more push or, as the Americans call it, urge, will obtain a big lump of money from both the Commonwealth and the States, and a certain amount of improvement will be effected to their territory on very easy terms; whereas another local authority, whose affairs are managed by persons who are not able to push so strenuously, may be left out of account.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– That is not the fault of the Government, the Parliament, or the bill.

Senator LYNCH:

– It is the fault of the system, which is altogether wrong. It aims at an indiscriminate conferring of benefits upon certain local authorities, and the ignoring of others. Take, as an example, the State of Western Australia.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– What would the honorable senator do?

Senator LYNCH:

– I shall tell the Minister before I conclude.

Senator Sir George Pearce:

– Some local authorities may not want or need any assistance.

Senator LYNCH:

– That is unthinkable. There is not a local authority in Australia that does not want something. There may be 60 or 70 local bodies in suburban areas, and under this bill it will be manifestly impossible to give all of them what one may term even fractional or worth while support. Those whose affairs are managed by men who can impress on the employment council the value of their proposals, will succeed in having the work approved; whereas others will be left out in the cold and will not have a penny-piece spent within their areas. That is not even-handed justice.

The Minister has asked me to suggest what ought to be done. We must call upon those local authorities who benefit from the expenditure, to repay the money. The terms can be made as easy as possible. In addition to making available this sum of money, it is also proposed to share the interest burden, so that those local governing bodies which participate in the scheme will enjoy a double advantage. As the fundamental purpose of the measure is to provide relief for the unemployed, I suggest that the revenues derived from the works constructed under it, should after payment of interest charges, be set aside in a special fund to extend employment in other directions. If, for example, a local governing body in one of the suburbs of Sydney obtains an advance for the purpose of extending its sewerage system, the revenue from the scheme should be ear-marked for future useful works. The distribution of this money should be on a strictly business footing.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee :

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 -

After section 4 of the principal act the following sections are inserted: - “ 4a. Any grant made to a State in pursuance of this act . . . shall be repaid by the State to the Commonwealth, together with such amount of interest on the amount advanced as is paid by the person, authority or body of persons to the State.”

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- I move -

That the following words be added to proposed new section 4a - “ Any body spending money under this act shall make provision that the rates of pay and conditions of labour ruling in any occupation shall be those provided for by arbitration or wages boards awards, where such are in operation.”

My purpose is to ensure, as we have done in many other acts passed by this Parliament, under which the taxpayers of the Commonwealth are called upon to pay bounty or customs duties for the encouragement of industry, that the industries concerned shall pay award rates and observe award conditions.

Senator Lynch:

– Does not the honorable senator want the money to go as far as possible?

Senator BARNES:

– I wish it to be dispersed under proper conditions as to rates of pay and conditions of employment. If this Parliament makes available for local governing bodies funds for expenditure on local government work, it should also provide against the bodies concerned taking advantage of the economic distress of the manhood and womanhood of Australia. The “ sweater “ in industry should not be encouraged. If this Parliament stands for anything, it stands for the observance of a reasonable standard of living for the working people of this country. No body or individual should have access to public funds on such favorable terms except on the express undertaking that the rates of pay and the conditions of labour are those prescribed by arbitration courts or wages boards tribunals.

Senator LYNCH:
“Western Australia

– Senator Barnes apparently ignores the fact that this is a measure to provide loan money for the relief of distress. This being so, we should not shut our eyes to the position that confronts us. We could not, if we would, alter the progress of events or prevent what is happening. Senator Barnes is well aware that rationing has been applied in several Commonwealth and State public departments, with the result that the employees affected are not actually receiving award rates of pay. Even in the Australian Workers Union, of which the honorable senator is president, instructions were issued recently that the award rates, which in normal times are properly observed, need not be insisted upon, for the simple reason that employers are not in a position to pay them.

Senator Barnes:

– Where is that being done?

Senator LYNCH:

– In South Australian farming districts, where the employers are nearly all “stony broke”.

Senator Barnes:

– I have not heard of it.

Senator LYNCH:

– I am informed that instructions have been issued to the representatives of the Australian Workers Union in that State not to insist upon the observance of award rates and conditions. The honorable senator’s amendment might be all right in normal times, but, unfortunately, we are now living in abnormal and most distressful times. The honorable gentleman is asking this committee to approve of what he would not do as a private individual. If he had money to disperse among the unemployed, he would not deal out the whole of it to the first of his friends whom he might meet. On the contrary, he would think that as, in all probability, he would later meet a number of others who were equally in need of assistance, it would be better to distribute this assistance evenly among the whole of them. That is what is intended under this proposal. As for the honorable gentleman’s allegations against the “ sweater “ in industry, he must know that sweating is almost non-existent. Our duty is to face the facts and give the maximum of practical assistance to those in need of it. The money now proposed to be spent must not be shovelled out as it has been in the past, and no proper return got for it. In Western Australia 1 have seen men long past the age of usefulness getting 2s. an hour on road work. The farmers alongside could not afford to pay that rate for labour. The fair thing is to give a reasonable dividend to every man rather than pay inordinately high rates of wages to a few. If we insist on the payment of award rates in the expenditure of this money, a favoured few will share all the bounty while others starve. Does Senator Barnes want that?

Senator Barnes:

– Apparently the honorable senator wants all to starve.

Senator LYNCH:

– My past actions are a standing contradiction of that assertion. We do not know what Senator Barnes would pay ; he has never employed labour.

Senator Barnes:

– Why does not the honorable senator stand up to hi3 old principles now?

Senator LYNCH:

– I am doing so. In the meantime I am pointing out the absurdity of this ostentatious display of sympathy with the workers, when the real effect of the amendment would be to give more than a fair deal to a favoured few and let all others go short. There is not the slightest element of justice in such a proposal. The “ sweater “ docs not come into the picture.

Senator BARNES:
VICTORIA · ALP

– I want to make sure that he does not.

Senator LYNCH:

– The Government of which Senator Barnes was a member rationed public servants. Was that not a reduction of wages? It is time to shed all foolish delusions and deal in a sensible way with the problems presenting themselves to us, meting out evenhanded justice to all.

Senator GREENE:
Assistant Minister · NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– Insofar as the laws of the Commonwealth and the States apply, the Government will observe them in the expenditure of this money, but as it does not feel disposed to go further than that it does not think it desirable to insert in the bill a provision of the character desired by Senator Barnes.

Senator BARNES:
Victoria

.- It is possibly right that this proposed expenditure should be spread over as wide a field as possible, but there are many people in this country who openly and brazenly advocate that men should work for just sufficient to keep them in tucker. I want to make sure that whatever money this Government is responsible for collecting from the taxpayers is not spent in that way. There was nearly a revolution in New Zealand the other day when the Dominion Government decided not to pay any dole and compel men to work for their tucker. I do not want Our Government to lead itself to anything of that nature. If rationing is necessary, all right. When I was Assistant Minister for Works a deputation of Canberra men waited on me and asked that they be rationed. They pointed out that there was not enough work going to keep all employed full time, and that there was nothing further afield if they left Canberra. Even if employment was offering outside the Territory they had not sufficient money to get away. I listened to their request and agreed that it was a fair one. I have no objection to any body of workmen sharing their crusts with their mates if they want to do so, but I will not be a party to allowing a free and open go to the sweating element of this country. I, therefore, hope that it will be provided in this bill that any municipal authority taking advantage of this expenditure will observe the rates of wages and labour conditions laid down by an Arbitration Court or Wages Board. I cannot understand why any member of this Parliament should object to such a proposal unless he is an open advocate of wiping out all the arbitration awards.

Senator DOOLEY:
New South Wales

– I trust that the Government will see the wisdom of making some provision in this bill on the lines suggested in the amendment. In no circumstances should we countenance any authority utilizing this money and paying less than the basic wage or insisting on longer hours of labour than are set out in arbitration awards. Any authority anxious to avoid the observance of award conditions should apply to the Arbitration Court for a variation of the awards applying to the workers employed by it, thus giving to employees and their representatives an opportunity to state their case to the tribunal adjudicating on the claim. It is unreasonable to expect a man to give a week’s work for 20s. and pay house rent and keep his family. The employment given as a result of this bill should not be on the basis of what is equivalent to the amount now paid by way of dole. It is all right for Senator Lynch to talk the way he does, but if he had ever been a navvy he would know that 2s. an hour is not too much pay for the work that such a man does. How would the honorable senator stand up to eight hours a day navvying? No man now on the dole could do it. Starving people cannot give good service. If this Government wants good results from this expenditure it must pay the workers sufficient to enable them to purchase enough food to keep themselves fit. I agree with Senator Barnes that if anything will lend itself to revolution, trouble and discontent in this country, it is the action of putting men to work for their tucker only. Honorable senators opposite know that the pastoralists have for years been advocating that the men on the land should have the right to employ workers for anything they choose to give them by way of wages. Some say that a man “would prefer to work for his tucker. and shelter rather than travel round the country looking in. vain for work. There will always be trouble between employers and employees while the employees are paid too little for their services, particularly when they earn practically nothing during lean times. In order to avoid trouble, unemployed relief funds must not be spent with the object of replacing the payment of the dole. Honorable senators who have the idea, that they will be so spent will be disappointed.

Senator DUNN:
New South Wales

.- -I shall not delay the Senate. I merely rise to say that I support Senator Barnes’ amendment.

Question - That the amendment (Senator Barnes’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Senator Plain.)

AYES: 5

NOES: 15

Majority . . 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 5 and 6 agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 1250

COMMONWEALTH BANK BILL

Assent reported.

page 1250

BANKRUPTCY BILL

Bill returned from the House of Representatives without amendment.

page 1250

COMMONWEALTH INSCRIBED STOCK BILL

Bill returned from the House of Representatives without amendment.

page 1250

LEAVE OF ABSENCE?

Motion ‘ (by Senator Sir George

Pearce) - by leave - agreed to -

That leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the determination of the sitting this day to the day on which the Senate next meets.

page 1250

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Senator Sir George Pearce), agreed to -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till a day and hour to be fixed by the President, which time of meeting shall be notified to each Senator by telegram or letter.

Sitting suspended from 6.27 to 7 p.m.

page 1250

IMMIGRATION BILL

Bill returned from the House of Representatives with amendments.

Standing and sessional orders suspended.

In committee (Consideration of House of Representatives’ amendments).

Amendment No. 1 (Consequential) agreed to.

Amendment No. 2.

Clause 7 -

After section eight b of the principal act the following section is inserted: - 8ba. Where an order has been made under this act for the deportation of any person, the wife and dependent children of that person may be included in the order for deportation, and thereupon the provisions of this act relating to deportation shall apply to the wife and dependent children.

House of Representatives’ amendment -

After the word “ may “, proposed new section 8ba, insert the words “ if the wife so desires.”

Senator McLACHLAN:
Acting Attorney-General · South Australia · UAP

– I move -

That the amendment be agreed to.

The amendment gives the wife of a person to be deported the option of deciding whether she and her dependent children shall be deported or remain in Australia.

Motion agreed to.

Resolutions reported ; report adopted.

page 1251

BILLS FROM THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

The following bills were returned from the House of Representatives without amendment : -

Forestry Bureau Bill.

Solar Observatory Fund Bill.

Insurance Bill (No. 2).

page 1251

ADJOURNMENT

Senator Sir GEORGE PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · Western Australia · UAP

[7.6]. - In moving -

That the Senate do now adjourn,

I take this opportunity to thank honorable senators for the assistance they have rendered, particularly to-day, in disposing of the business before the Senate. Although this portion of the present session has been short, I venture to say that more history has been crammed into it than into any similar period since, I have been a member of the Senate. I again thank honorable senators for the way in which they have assisted the Government to pass measures .which are of infinite importance to the country.

Question resolved in the affirmative.’

Senate adjourned at 7.7 p.m. till a day and ho-.ir to be fixed by the President.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 24 May 1932, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1932/19320524_senate_13_134/>.

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