Senate
22 February 1917

6th Parliament · 1st Session



The President took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 10551

COMMONWEALTH WAR MINISTRY

Statement of Policy

Senator MILLEN:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · New South Wales · NAT

(By leave). - I desire to make a statement to the Senate as to events which, I have no doubt, are within -the knowledge of honorable senators, but which it becomes my -duty to place before them officially. A few days ago the Prime Minister (Mr. Hughes) waited upon His Excellency the Governor-General and tendered the resignation of himself and colleagues. At the same time he advised His Excellency to issue to him a commission for. the formation of a new Ministry. This the Governor-General was pleased to do, and consequent upon that a new Ministry has been formed. I desire, in making this announcement to the Senate, to place before honorable senators for their consideration a brief review of the facts which have led up to, and indeed induced, the creation of the new Government. Perhaps it would be as well before I do so to complete my reference to the formation of the new Ministry by stating its personnel and the positions which have been allotted to individual members of it, as follows : -

Right Honorable William Morris Hughes, P.C., M.P., Prime Minister and Attorney-General

Right Honorable Joseph Cook, P.C., M.P., Minister of State for the Navy.

Right Honorable Sir John Forrest, P.C., M.P., G.C.M.G., Treasurer

Senator the Honorable George Foster Pearce, Minister of State for Defence.

Senator -the Honorable Edward Davis Millen, Vice-President of the Federal Executive Council.

The Honorable William Alexander Watt, M.P., Minister of State for Works and Railways

The Honorable. Patrick McMahon Glynn, K.C., M.P., Minister of State for Home and Territories.

The Honorable Jens August Jensen, M.P., Minister of State for Trade and Customs

The Honorable William Webster, M.P., Postmaster-General

The Honorable Littleton Ernest’ Groom, M.P., and

Senator the Honorable Edward John

Russell, to be Honorary Ministers. Before proceeding with the more important portion of the statement I desire to make, I may add that it has been arranged that Ministers in this Chamber will attend to departmental matters in the following order: - The Minister for Defence will deal with matters connected with the Department over which he presides, and also the Department of the Navy. Senator Russell will attend to matters associated with the Works and Railways Department, the Department of Trade and Customs, and the Department of the PostmasterGeneral ; whilst I shall endeavour to deal with matters arising in connexion with the Prime Minister’s Department; the Treasury, the Attorney-General’s Department, and the Department of Home and Territories.

Dealing with the facts which I say led up to the announcementI have just made, I should like to assure honorable senators that it will be my endeavour in placing those facts before them to confine myself to them. I do not wish, in making this statement, to introduce one wordwhich might beregarded in any sense as superfluous in a mere presentation of the facts. In that I have this object in view - in the attainment ofwhich I cordially invite honorable senators to assist me - that whatever discussions may arise consequent upon this announcement we may at least bring our minds to such a condition that we shall endeavour throughout those discussions to deal only with the facts and with what those facts imply. When this Parliament was elected, it will be within the recollection of honorable senators that war had already burst upon us. Necessarily the war coloured the whole elections. I think it will pass without contradiction that that was the one thing which formed the subject of candidates’ addresses, and constituted the basis of the appeal made to the electors by both political parties. Each of the then existing parties made its appeal to the country in very plain and definite terms. The representatives of both parties assured the electors that they were there to do what was possible to help to win the war, and were doing it not only as a matter of loyalty to Australia, but as a matter of loyalty ,to the Empire itself. There were also mutual assurances, to which every member of the Senate subscribed, that, irrespective of what the verdict of the electors might be, that would still be the attitude of the party to which they belonged. There was an assurance given by my own party that, should the verdict of the electors go against them, they would be prepared to give loyal support to their then political opponents in the prosecution of the war. A similar assurance in the most definite terms was given in the official manifesto of the party then headed by Mr. Eisner. I remind honorable senators of that because I wish to bring home to them the fact that this Parliament, irrespective of any dividing line on domestic politics, was elected as a war Parliament, and upon that one issue princi-pally, if not entirely. When this Parliament met, although every member of it had presented himself to the electors as a war candidate, it is perfectly true that we met as a Parliament divided into two parties. It is equally incontestable that after some little time - and I am pleased to think that the time was so short- there was a general settling down to the recognition of the fact that, although’ we sat in one sense as two parties, we were none the less one party so far as the prosecution of the war was concerned. As a member of the then Opposition, T think I, am entitled to say that the Opposition was not ungenerous in the support which it rendered to the Government in an attempt to redeem the pledges it had given. In the course of time, looking over the events which happened, it may further be said that if criticism .was directed towards the Government, it certainly was not upon party lines, and came possibly as freely from those who had pledged allegiance to the Government as from those who were ordinarily their political opponents. . That brings me to the 28th October, and the events following upon the referendum. I do not wish to refer to the. causes leading up to them, for the reason that I want to present only the facts. At this juncture, I am concerned simply with the consequences of -that referendum, and its effect upon the life of this Parliament. When the Houses re-assembled, it was quite clear that the referendum had affected the party which, up to that time, had enrolled itself under the Government banner, for it left , the Government in the other House with a comparatively small minority. It must be obvious to every one, whether new to> Parliament or long familiar with it, to recognise that it is impossible to carry on the Government under our Constitution unless the Government is assured of reasonable parliamentary support. Now, whilst that great change has occurred - a change from a Government commanding practically the unanimous support of the House of Representatives to a Government which found itself with only a few pledged supporters - there are other things which have not changed. And those are the things to which I wish now to direct attention. The war is still on, and what is of equal importance, the pledges which we gave to the- electors on the last occasion remain. No disruption in a party of this Parliament could for a moment relieve a single member of the solemn pledge which he gave to the electors. Those pledges still stand.

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– I did not quite catch the honorable senator’s interjection, but I think it had some reference to being in power.

Senator Mullan:

– The electors have given a pledge that you should not remain in power.

Senator MILLEN:

– I do not quite see the pertinence of the interjection to the matters with which I am now dealing. I am asking honorable senators to remember that war is still raging, and that the pledges which we gave to hundreds of thousands of the electors on innumerable platforms also stand.

Let me now remind honorable senators of our exact position with regard to this war. It certainly is no better than it was a few months, ago. I claim no military knowledge, and I possess no secret information, and .therefore have to draw my conclusions from the information given to us by the daily press. And in this connexion, let me impress upon honorable senators the fact, that we do not always get the fullest available information through the press; that the Imperial authorities, through their censors, send us only the best news.

If there is any suppression at all, it is the suppression of that news which might be regarded as discomforting. By no process of reasoning, therefore, can we assume that the news available as to the war is better than that we get. The best way, I think, to judge of the facts would be for honorable senators to assume for a few moments that we were members of the German Parliament. 1 know that would be a considerable strain upon their imagination, but I am going to ask them for a few moments to assume that we stand in the position of members of the German Parliament.

Senator Barker:

– We could not.

Senator MILLEN:

– I think Senator Barker might be capable of doing anything.

Senator Barker:

– I would not care to do what you have done, anyway.

Senator MILLEN:

– I am asking the Senate to assume that we are members of the German Parliament; and I the Minister charged with an explanation of the position from the German stand-point. In such circumstances, might I not point to the map of Europe, and say that, because of the dauntless courage of the German armies, we had subjugated Belgium, had overrun one-fifth of France, the whole of Servia and Poland, portion of Russia; and that when a new enemy dared to enter the arena had pushed him almost out of his own territory? There are other factors; but I venture to say that I have said enough to show that we are not by any means in such a position that we can cease our efforts in connexion with this war. The outlook is as serious to-day asat any time since the fateful 4th August. I am sure, also, that I am not exaggerating for a moment when I say that the submarine menace is one of the most serious that has confronted the Empire, and that it constitutes one of the most difficult problems which Great Britain has been called upon to face. We must not judge the submarine blockade merely by the number of ships that have been sunk. We must judge it by the number of ships that are tied up in harbors;and we do know that prior to the recent ruthless submarine campaign Great Britain was sorely taxed to find ships for her commerce and military purposes. That difficulty has lately been intensified.

I do not want the Senate to assume for a moment that I think Germany can win. I am absolutely certain that she cannot; but I dowant to draw a distinction between Germany winning and the Empire and its Allies failing to secure the object for which they went to war. It seems to me that we cannot go on indefinitely expending our strength, but that, as a sensible and practical people, we must see if, by a supreme effort to-day, it is not possible, not merely to terminate the war, but also to secure that victory which all of us desire, and which we believe the merits of our cause warrant. We must remember that while the Empire is in danger, so, also, is Australia in danger. Unfortunately, there are thousands of people in this country who regard Australia as a somewhat detached spectator of these great and tragic events. They do not seem to recognise that Australia, as a nation, is in danger, and that our present, and more particularly our future, is trembling in the balance. If I could bring homethat fact to them, I venture to say there would be less hesitancy and less division ‘of opinion as to the steps which should be taken to’ meet that danger, But, with all this confronting us, I, and every other public man, naturally had to ask the question, “ What is to be done in order that Australia may continue, and if necessary expand, the efforts which she has already put forth ? “ Clearly it is useless for a people to be resolved to do anything unless there is the machinery by which their resolution can be carried into effect.

The first essential to enable this or any other country to act is a Government strong in the possession of parliamentary support. That is the first essential under the Constitution under which we live. Without that it is impossible, no matter how much this country may desire to do something, for it to move. If the necessity for such a Government is admitted, I would like to direct the attention of honorable senators to thefact that some time ago steps were taken to see if it were not possible - out of a Parliament every member of which was elected because of the war, and because of his pledges in relation to it - to elect a War Government. It will be remembered that an invitation was extended to the party headed by Mr. Tudor to join with the other two parties in the formation of such a Government. Mr. Tudor and his associates - for reasons which I do not desire to discuss - declined that invitation. I venture to say that what has been done - whether it is open to objection or not - was done in the sincere belief that, as the three parties declined to join, the -next best thing was to get together those who were willing to join forces for that purpose. Consequent upon that, an understanding - if I may use the term - has been arrived at between the party headed by Mr. Hughes and that which was headed by Mr. Cook. The result is the formation of the Government the names of which I have just given.

In addition to the war, there is another reason why it is essential that Australia should be able to speak without hesitancy, clearly ‘and definitely, and that reason is the approaching Imperial Conference. That Conference may fairly be said to open a new page, not merely in the history of the Dominions, but in the history of the Empire itself. It is not requisite to even consider many of the matters which must necessarily be discussed there. But we do know that among the things which will necessarily come up for review there are the two “matters of war and peace. Never before have the Dominions been consulted in these matters by the Imperial authorities. We are thus invited to step on to a higher and’ closer plane in our relationship to the Imperial authorities. But in addition to war and peace - subjects which ,in themselves are of sufficient importance to justify us and any of the other Dominions in sending representatives to the Conference - there are a hundred-and-one other matters which must necessarily pass under review. For instance, there are the by no means insignificant post-war problems. These in themselves would compel an interchange of views between the representatives of the people of this country and those of Great Britain. We have to recollect, too, that, with the advent. of’ science and the shortening of distances, trade matters are to-day becoming international in character and frequently involve serious international complications. Here we are invited to take our stand as brothers in our father’s household, and to discuss matters which are of as much interest to us as they are to the people of Great Britain themselves. Another big matter which will come up for review is the future relationship not only between the Dominions and Great

Britain, but also between one Dominion and another. Coming hearer home, there is. the question of the future control of the Pacific and’ of those territories, where, thanks to the courage of our sons, we have pulled down the German flag. I Hopethat, having done so, we shall not so far belittle the work of our soldiers and sailors as, without an effort, to’ incur the risk of that flag ever being raised thereagain. These are issues w’hich we shall be invited to discuss with the other partners of the Empire. Whatever else happens, Australia must be represented atthe Imperial Conference, and represented adequately. But this also requires a Government, not a Government in name only, but one which is absolutely assured of its position here. It would be idle for anybody to go Home unless that assurance were forthcoming. It is these two reasons - -the necessity for having a Government in a position to prosecute the war, and. the necessity for arranging our delegation to the Imperial Conference - which has. been largely instrumental in the creation of the new Ministry.

Now I would like to point out that a new Government by itself would be entirely useless. That Government must have a policy, and I propose briefly to place before the Senate an outline of the policy which that Government ventures to present. I ask honorable senators to recognise two things- first,, that it is the invariable practice, when a new Government submits a policy, to submit it only in outline. There was an additional reason for such a course being followed on the present occasion, namely, the quite recent format-ion of the Ministry. But I would first like to turn to its general policy as distinct from some details which I will append later. The Government is a war Government. It is not a Government formed to destroy, but to build up. It does not come into existence to serve the cause of reaction on the one hand or of advanced legislation on the other.

Senator Barker:

– That is honest, anyhow.

Senator MILLEN:

– Honesty is one of the attributes of the Government, but I should not like to think that the present Government is peculiar in that respectIt comes to deal with the war, and, subject to its clear declaration to respect the verdict of the people on the 28th October last, it will do whatever is necessary to help win the war.- It is not a rich man’s Government, nor a poor man’s Government; it is the people’s Government, not a Government for some people, but for all people. And it will deal fairly with all. The purpose of its being is to enable the Commonwealth to most effectively continue this great struggle for liberty and right. It earnestly invites the co-operation of every section of this Senate, of every elector of this country. The Government stands for the development of Australian national spirit on the foundation of Imperial ideals. The Government strongly believes in, and will maintain in its entirety, the White Australia policy. The new Administration rests upon the foundations of responsible government. The Ministers are responsible directly to the members of this Parliament, the members directly to the people, and to them alone. The financial burdens imposed by this war upon the world are colossal. Already we here in this favoured land, far removed from the scene of strife, have incurred a debt for war purposes of £131,000,000. Our obligations during the calendar year for war alone will not fall far short of £78,000,000. But this by no means exhausts the tale of our liabilities. For Commonwealth purposes other than wax, for moneys to be provided to the States under the financial agreement between Commonwealth and States, for repatriation, for land settlement, for soldiers, and for financing 1917- 18 wheat crop, an amount not far short of £70,000,000 will be required, much of which will be necessary this year. The probabilities of loans in Britain for other than war purposes are remote.

In the face of these facts, even putting aside the vital importance for economy in national expenditure on things other than those essential to the effective prosecution of the war, the necessity of sound and careful finance is obvious. The financial policy of the Government will, therefore, be . such as the circumstances imperatively require. To the war all things must be subordinated. We shall endeavour to avoid incurring all unnecessary expenditure. « We shall -pursue a policy of sound finance. We hope to make such financial arrangements with the States as will avoid dual taxation on the same asset. We shall exercise that supervision of expenditure which our circumstances render imperative.

The Government will not practise that odious economy that begins and ends by reducing the wages of the working classes, nor will it countenance in any way the even more odious policy already suggested that men should be driven but of employment in order to compel enlistment.

The policy of the Commonwealth War Government on the question of the Tariff is definite, and may be shortly stated as. follows: - It is the intention ‘ of the Government to develop Australian production and industries, and proceed with such’ amendments of the present Tariff as may be necessary to attain this end. While, for reasons stated to honorable members on a previous occasion, alteration of the present Tariff cannot now be made, the Government is pledged to deal with the matter directly circumstances make it possible. The Government will also develop the policy of the late Administration, and seek the aid of science for the development of industry.

For the effective prosecution of the war, for the development of industries, peaceful industrial conditions and continuity of operations are essential. The policy of the Government will be to create machinery for the economical and expeditious hearing and settlement by arbitration of industrial disputes. And as it believes in the principle of arbitration, so it believes in the enforcements of Courts’ awards.

As for conscription, the policy of the Government is clear .and definite- it intends to respect the verdict of the people delivered on 28th October, 1916.- It is, of course, impossible to see or to say what the future may have in store ; it will have to be left to circumstances to decide. But it is clear that the electors of Australia alone can reverse their previous decision.

The Government knows what is its duty to the men who fight for their country in this great war, and intends to fully perform it. The Government will deal with the returned soldiers and sailors by a policy worthy of the great sacrifices they have made.

The Government, considering the question of repatriation as one of first importance, has appointed a Minister to give his undivided attention to all matters affecting the welfare of returned soldiers. He is now finally shaping the machinery for that purpose, and the Government expects in a few days to set forth its policy in full detail.

The necessity for a Government which has behind it the whole force of the nation is, in our present circumstances, obvious. Notwithstanding the refusal of the Official Labour, party to join hands with us, we have done what was possible, under the circumstances, to form a Government which is truly representative of the people, so that Australia shall do her duty in this great war as becomes a free people fighting for liberty.

Speaking with many years’ experience of Parliaments, and the motives by which all of us are frequently actuated, I feel that I shall at least have the sympathy of the Senate if I say that, in view of the big issues involved in the war, each of us is under an obligation to try to free himself as much as possible from personal and party considerations, and to judge any issues raised merely by the one test: Will they or will they not enable Australia to continue that part in the war, which, so far, she has not unworthily discharged ? I lay the statement as to the policy of the Government on the table, and move -

That the paper be printed.

Debate (on motion by Senator Gardiner) adjourned.

Senator GARDINER:
New South Wales

(By leave). - I wish, as the, representative of this side, to congratulate the new Ministry. I congratulate Senator Millen on his elevation to the position he now holds. I congratulate my old colleague, Senator Pearce, on still being Minister for Defence, and I congratulate Senator Russell on still being in the team.

page 10556

QUESTION

MILITARY PUNISHMENTS

Senator GRANT:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– On the 13th inst. I asked the Minister for Defence -

  1. How many soldiers are at present incarcerated in Australian gaols for offences committed abroad?
  2. How many have been released during the month of January, 1916?

Is the information yet available?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The answers are -

  1. Twenty-nine.
  2. Sixteen.

page 10556

QUESTION

HOME SERVICE PROCLAMATION

lossofemployment

Senator McDOUGALL:
NEW SOUTH WALES

– Last Decem ber I was asked by the Minister representing the Minister for the Navy to give specific cases of Government employeeswho had lost, their employment through responding to the Home Service proclamation and going into camp. I gavetwo at Cockatoo Dock and one on H.M.S. Tingira, and was promised that the matter would be seen to. I have received no information since then. Have these men been reinstated?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– I shall bring the matter under the notice of my colleague, the Minister for the Navy.

page 10556

QUESTION

COMPULSORY MILITARY SERVICE

Australians in New Zealand.

Senator McKISSOCK:
VICTORIA

– In view of the fact that compulsory service is the order of the day in New Zealand, have the Government taken any proceedings toconserve the rights of Australian citizens residing in the Dominion? In other words, is it their intention to see that such persons are not brought under the operation of the conscription law now in vogue there ?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– No cases have been reported to me where the rights of Australian citizens have been interfered with in any way in New Zealand.

Senator McKissock:

– I have had letters along those lines.

page 10556

QUESTION

IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE

Senator STEWART:
QUEENSLAND

– I ask the Minister representing the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Government, before the proposed delegation is sent to Great Britain, to. have a general election for both Houses of this Parliament, in order to ascertain the will of the people on the matters which will be brought before the Conference?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– As the holding of the Imperial War Conference is urgent, and a general election could not take place under two months, and possibly longer, the answer to the honorable senator’s question is “ No.”

Senator FINDLEY:
VICTORIA

– I ask the Leader of the Government in the Senate whether there is any trutli in the statement which has appeared in more than one newspaper, to the effect that should certain events not turn out in a particular way, it is the intention of the Government to allow two of the delegates whose names have been mentioned, namely, Sir William Irvine and Sir John Forrest to proceed to the Imperial War Conference, and that Mr. Hughes will not be present at the Conference, but will remain in Australia pending certain happenings ?

Senator MILLEN:

– There are too’ many possible contingencies in the honorable senator’s question to justify me in venturing to answer it. 1 I would, however, direct his attention to th’e notice of motion I gave to-day as indicating the course the Government desire to follow.

Senator KEATING:
TASMANIA

– I ask the Leader of the Senate, in connexion with the Australian representation at the Imperial War Conference, whether, if one or more of the representatives on behalf of Australia does not hold Ministerial office, it will be. clearly indicated to the people of Australia, the people of Great Britain, and all concerned, what exactly will be the status of such representative, so that any utterance of his at the Conference or elsewhere may not- be considered as binding upon the people of Australia ?

Senator MILLEN:

– I shall bring the question put by the honorable senator imder the notice of the Prime Minister. I should like to add that the Prime Minister was invited to take his colleagues to the Imperial War Council, . and Sir William Irvine will go as a full delegate from Australia.

Senator Keating:

– Will he hold Ministerial office?

Senator GARDINER:
NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; PROG LAB from 1928

– I ask the Leader of the Government in the Senate whether a communication has been received from the Imperial Authorities inviting any one to a Conference, and, if so, have one or more persons been invited ?

Senator MILLEN:

– To the honorable senator’s first question the answer is “ Yes.” The second question I am not able to answer definitely now. I prefer that it should be submitted on notice.

page 10557

PAPEES

The following papers were presented : - Iron Bounty Act 1914-1915. - Return of Particulars required under Section 14 of the Act (1914-17). Naval .Defence Act 1910-1912. - Regulations amended, &c. - Statutory Rules 1917, No. 30:

Papua. - Ordinance No. 16 of rlOl’6. - Customs.

Public Service Act 1902-1916. - Promotion of R. B. Avery, Postmaster-General’s Department

War Precautions Act 1914-1916. - Regulations amended, &c. - Statutory Rules 1916, No. 328; 1917, Nos. 12, 23, 34.

page 10557

QUESTION

CAPTAIN BEAN’S ‘ CORRESPONDENCE

Senator MCDOUGALL:

– I ask the Leader of the Government in the Senate whether his attention has been drawn to a paragraph appearing in the newspapers in which the Commonwealth Official Correspondent a>t the Front says -

The feeling amongst those to whom I have spoken here is that surely Australian politicians should for once forego their party quarrels, and let Australia give the most united and most powerful support possible to the cause our soldiers are lighting for.

I ask the Minister whether he will at once advise the Prime Minister to communicate with Captain Bean, and let him know that the “Weary Willies” of Australian politics have come to an honorable understanding

The PRESIDENT:

– Order ! The honorable senator should ask his question without debate.

Senator MCDOUGALL:

– Very well, sir, I will leave that out, but I desire that the great anxiety of our friends in France as to the result of the war should be at once relieved.

page 10557

SOLDIERS’ PENSION RIGHTS

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answer .to the question is “ No.”

page 10558

QUESTION

PROHIBITION OF PROTECTION MEETING

Senator STEWART:

– Will the Minister representing thePrime Minister state to the Senate the reason which induced the Prime Minister to prohibit a meeting called to discuss the question of Protection in the Melbourne Town Hall the other evening.

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– If I understand the question aright, I am invited to ask the Prime Minister to state the reasons which induced him to prohibit the holding of a certain meeting in the Melbourne Town Hall. The simple answer to the question is that it is not necessary to do so, because the Prime Minister did not prohibit the holding of the meeting.

Senator FINDLEY:

– I wish to ask a, question arising out of the answer given to Senator Stewart’s question. The Leader of the Government in the Senate says that the Prime Minister did not prohibit the holding of the meeting. I ask the honorable senator whether it is a fact that, after the meeting had been advertised and arranged, instructions were given, it is said, by the Prime Minister, to the Lord Mayor of Melbourne, and that the Lord Mayor carried out instructions he had received. from the Prime Minister.

Senator Millen:

– Who says this?

Senator FINDLEY:

– I say it was reported.

Senator Millen:

– Who reported it?

Senator FINDLEY:

– It is of no use for the Leader of the Government in the Senate to try to bluff me.

Senator Millen:

– I am asking the honorable senator’s authority for the statement he is making.

Senator FINDLEY:

– I am asking the Leader of the Government in the Senate a question, and he is at liberty to answer it in his own way. I shall state the question again. Is he aware that a meeting had been arranged at the Town Hall, Melbourne, to further the cause of Protection; that the meeting had been advertised; and that after such arrangements had been made, it is reported that instructions were received by the Lord Mayor of Melbourne from the Prime Minister’s office; and that after he had received such instructions the Lord Mayor of Melbourne would not permit the meeting to be held ?

Senator MILLEN:

– I have no personal knowledge of these matters, but if Senator

Findley wishes me to communicate with the Lord Mayor of Melbourne to know if the facts are as he has stated them I shall have no objection to do so.

Senator FINDLEY:

– Do I understand the Leader of the Government in the Senate to say that he is willing to communicate with the Lord Mayor of Melbourne to ascertain from that gentleman by whose authority, or for what reason, the meeting was not held as announced ?

Senator Millen:

– The honorable senator is not at liberty to understand that.

Senator FINDLEY:

– I ask Senator Millen, as representing the Prime Minister in the Senate, whether he will be kind enough to do that.

Senator Millen:

– To do what?

Senator FINDLEY:

– To do what the honorable senator has -suggested he would do.

Senator Millen:

– I am willing to do what I suggested, but I hesitate to do what Senator Findley suggests.

Senator FINDLEY:

– Then am I to understand that the honorable senator declines to do it? Does the Leader of the Government in the Senate decline to ascertain from the Prime Minister’s Department by whose authority the meeting arranged to be held in the Melbourne Town Hall was cancelled, seeing that the reasons given were alleged to be reasons of State ?

Senator MILLEN:

– I shall have no hesitation in submitting the question in that form to the Prime Minister.

page 10558

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Rank and Pay op Firemen : Speech with Nurses in Street : Soldiers on Egyptian Railways: Grant of Final Leave : Payments to Dependants.

Senator READY:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Were all passed firemen enlisted in the

Tasmanian Railway Unit, A.I.F., now in Claremont Camp, to rank as engine-drivers and receive corporal’s pays at the rate of 8s. 6d. per day, before embarkation ?

  1. Are these men receiving only 5s. per day whilst in camp; and, if so, why?
Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The answers are -

  1. No, not all necessarily. The Commandant, Tasmania, has been instructed to enlist ten drivers and ten firemen for the railway section. Passed firemen are eligible to rank as engine-drivers, if there are not enough drivers to make up the number required, but until the unit is fully organized itis impossible to say how many passed firemen will be made enginedrivers.
  2. No. 4 Railway Section is being raised in three districts, namely, Queensland, South Australia, and Tasmania. The whole were due to concentrate in Victoria about the 21st February. When the unit concentrates the Commanding Officer will grade the men in each category according to qualifications and experience, as if they had all been raised together in one State. He will also reject or transfer to a lower grade any men who are found to be unsuitable for the grade they have joined. Until the respective merits of the men from different States can be determined, promotion is withheld, and until men are inspected or tested by the officer who is to command them on service, they cannot be definitely allotted to the higher grades. They are, therefore, being paid as privates until concentration in Melbourne. As soon as possible after concentration, all promotions will be made, and antedated, so that pay can be made up to the full amount which would have been payable if the men had been placed in their respective positions when they commenced duty with the unit.
Senator READY:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that no private is allowed to speak to a nurse in the street while in uniform, either in Egypt or in England?
  2. Have any complaints reached the Government because of soldiers having to travel third class on the Egyptian railways?
Senator PEARCE:

– The answers are -

  1. There is no information to this effect here, but inquiries will be made.
  2. Complaints were received and inquiries were at once instituted. The following reports have been received in the matter from the Officer Commanding, Head-Quarters, Egypt: -

Cable dated 7th December, 1916- “ Concession of half fare is only allowed by Egyptian State railways to soldiers travelling on leave, provided they travel by class allotted’, namely, officers first, warrant officers second, and others third. Noregulations forbid soldiers on leave travelling any class, provided they pay full fare of thatclass.”

Cable dated 8th December, 1916 - “That at the time Egypt full of troops it became necessary to vary regulations for travelling on leave. Warrant officers and sergeants only being allowed second class, and corporals and privates were ordered to travel third-class, but in carriages reserved for them. Now that rush over, Director Railways Transport being asked to allow warrant officers to travel first class, and all other ranks second class, on payment full fare, when on leave.”

In a subsequent despatch the Officer Commanding, Head-Quarters, in Egypt, stated as follows : - I feel more convinced than ever that the incidents of hardship mentioned are exceptional cases, for it is notorious that the regulation requiring soldiers to travel third class is not carried out strictly, for soldiers do enter second-class carriages, and when they do, they voluntarily travel with natives, many of whom travel second class; and, personally, I have not felt very much hurt at having to travel in a firstclass carriage because a native happened to be there. If I did object, my only sale course would be to get into a third-class carriage on the train reserved for soldiers, and into which native’s are not allowed to enter.”

Senator McKISSOCK:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is he aware that the promise given by him recently, to the effect that all soldiers were to be given final leave sufficient to enable them to have two clear days at their respective homes, is not being observed in all cases?
  2. Will he issue instructions that his promise be carried out in its entirety?
Senator PEARCE:

– The answers are -

  1. Individual cases of this nature have been reported, and instructions have been invariably given that the leave was to be granted forthwith. In a few cases of emergency, volunteers were called for, and the soldiers have been sent away without final leave, but only with their full consent.
  2. Yes, this has already been done.
Senator Lt Colonel Sir ALBERT GOULD:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

What is the usual period of delay between the death of men upon active service and the first payment of pensions or gratuities to their dependants?

Senator MILLEN:
NAT

– The answer is -

Pensions are payable when the payment of allotment ceases. The payment of allotment continues for two months after notification of death.

Senator READY:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that no pensions can be claimed by dependants of soldiers who are declared as “ missing “ until such soldiers are declared deceased?
  2. In many cases does this not mean a considerable time during which the dependants are left without means of support?
  3. Will the Minister take steps to obviate this delay in future, as far as is possible?
Senator PEARCE:

– The answers are - 1. No. 2 and 3. The practice of the Department in the case of all soldiers reported missing is to take the following action : - Soldiers who have been reported as missing for a period of two months and regarding whom no advice has since been received, are, for purposes of pay, to be assumed to be dead, and their names are removed from the pay-roll as from the day, after notification that they were reported missing. In connexion with any allotment which’ the soldier may have made, but was not payable to a dependant, payment of same ceases on expiry of two months from the date of notification that the soldier was missing. In cases where allotments are payable to bona fide dependants the issue of allotment and separation allowance is continued for a further period not exceeding two months, to enable proceedings for pension to be taken and determined. Should a missing soldier subsequently be reported to be alive, his pay would be continued from the date of cancellation, and any under or over payment which occurred through the grant of a pension in lieu of the allotment would be adjusted, the pension cancelled, and the allotment continued from the date of such cancellation.

page 10560

QUESTION

VENEREAL DISEASE

Senator READY:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

What steps, if any, does the Government intend taking in connexion with the protection of the people of Australia from the scourge of venereal disease?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The answer is -

No troops suffering from venereal disease are now being returned to Australia for treatment, provision having been made for same in special hospitals oversea. In Australia no soldier is discharged from hospital until cured, except in a few isolated cases where treatment has proved unsuccessful. These cases are notified to health authorities. The Commonwealth Government has offered to the various States a monetary subsidy up to a certain maximum, to provide for expenditure on measures for the diagnosis and treatment of venereal disease throughout Australia, one condition of such subsidy being that the States should make the disease compulsorily notifiable. This offer has been accepted by some of the State Governments, and is still being considered by others.

page 10560

QUESTION

POSTAL DEPARTMENT

Fortnightly Payments : Mechanics’ Wages

Senator MULLAN:

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. Will the Postmaster-General say when he intends to carry out his promise to pay the salaries of the postal employees fortnightly?
  2. Seeing that His Honour Justice Powers has recently raised the adult wage in certain grades of employees to £150 per annum, will the Postmaster-General pay officers not covered by any award, in the grade of grooms and lift attendants, the increase granted?
  3. Is it a fact that the majority of temporary postmen are men who have fought for their country; and, if so, will the PostmasterGeneralreconsider his decision to deprive them of uniform, and order that temporary postmen be supplied with the same uniforms as permanent men?
Senator RUSSELL:
Honorary Minister · VICTORIA · NAT

-The answers are -

  1. This matter is not now in the hands of the Postmaster-General’s Department, but is being dealt with by the Treasury Department and the Acting Public Service Commissioner, in order that a settlement may be arrived at in regard to certain difficulties which appear to be involved.
  2. The salary of grooms and lift attendants, whose positions have not been dealt with by the Arbitration Court, is governed by Public Service Regulations. It is not proposed to increase the present rates.
  3. No. The whole matter of uniforms will be gone into at a later date.
Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. Were permanent and temporary mechanics in the employ of the Postal Department entitled to an increase of £18 (Eighteen pounds) in their minimum wage in January of this year, in addition to increments due or falling due?
  2. Was this increase paid in all States with the exception of Western Australia ?
  3. If so, why was the increase not paid in Western Australia ?
  4. Were permanent mechanics paid the increase, but not the increments due?
  5. If so, why were the increments not paid along with the increase?
Senator RUSSELL:

– The answers are -

  1. Yes.
  2. The increase was paid in all States excepting Western Australia in January, and in Western Australia. to permanent mechanics on 6th February. One case outstanding in Perth (that of the mechanician) will be settled by the Deputy Postmaster-General, Perth, this week by paying the £18 increase.
  3. The Deputy Postmaster-General, Perth, states that pressure of work prevented payment in January, and that the temporary mechanics would be paid last week.
  4. In all States excepting Victoria and Western Australia, the increments were paid in January. The Deputy Postmaster-General, Melbourne, explains that unless payment of the increase had been deferred, it was not possible to pay the Victorian increments at the same time, as the latter fell due on dates varying from 5th January, 1917, to 27th January, 1917, and reports had to be obtained as to satisfactory performance of duties.
  5. See replies to 3 and 4.

page 10560

QUESTION

KHAKI CLOTH

Senator GRANT:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

How manyyards of khaki cloth, 18 oz. and 25 oz., is at present in possession of the Defence Department in the Commonwealth?

Senator PEARCE:
NAT

– The answer is-

The following stocks of materials are held throughout the Commonwealth, viz. : - Cloth, khaki, 18 oz., 412,000 yards; cloth, khaki, 25. oz. ; 2031000 yards.

page 10560

FEDERAL CAPITAL

Workmen’s Dwellings

Senator WATSON:
NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister for Works, upon. notice -

In view of the statements made by Senator Grant, in respect to the alleged dilapidated condition of workmen’s dwellings at the Federal Capital, and in view of the many men who are said to be out of employment, will lie take into consideration the advisability of erecting suitable dwellings, and thereby seek to absorb a number of workers who may be unemployed, and increase the comfort of those employed by the Commonwealth?

Senator RUSSELL:
NAT

– The answer isThe Minister for* Works and Railways will consider the matter, and proposes to confer on the subject with the Minister for Home and Territories at an early date.

Senate adjourned »t 3.34 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 22 February 1917, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1917/19170222_senate_6_81/>.