House of Representatives
6 November 1951

20^th Parliament · 1^st Session

QUESTION
- QUESTIONS
QUESTION
- MB. HOWARD BEALE, M.P
QUESTION
- CONFERENCE OE COMMONWEALTH PRIME MINISTERS
QUESTION
- THE PARLIAMENT
QUESTION
- TELEPHONE SERVICES
QUESTION
- GOVERNMENT LOANS AND FINANCE
QUESTION
- POTATOES
QUESTION
- HEALTH AND MEDICAL SERVICES
QUESTION
- BASIC TV AGE
QUESTION
- PAPUA AND NEW GUINEA
QUESTION
- POSTAL DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- KOREA
QUESTION
- GOULBURN LIGHT HORSE BAND
CURRENCY
QUESTION
- PARLIAMENT HOUSE
QUESTION
- COMPULSORY ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY
QUESTION
- NEW SERVICE RIFLE
QUESTION
- ADVERTISING
QUESTION
- NEWSPRINT
QUESTION
- INDUSTRIAL ARBITRATION
QUESTION
- ARMED FORCES
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH HOSTELS LIMITED
QUESTION
- COMPANY PROFITS
QUESTION
- COMMUNISM
EXCISE TARIFF REBATE ACT REPEAL BILL 1951
CIVIL AVIATION
- Formal Motion for Adjournment
WHEAT INDUSTRY STABILIZATION (REFUND OF CHARGE) BILL 1951
- Second Reading
LAND TAX ASSESSMENT BILL 1951
- Second Reading
QUESTION
- ESTIMATES 1951-52
ADJOURNMENT
- Repatriation
PAPERS
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
- Wheat
- Whaling
- Housing
- Capital Issues

Mr. Speaker (Eon. Archie Cameron) took the chair at 3.20 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1533

– Order I Has the honorable gentleman risen on a matter of privilege?

Mr ROSEVEAR:

– No. I seek your guidance on how to approach you, as the senior officer of the House who can say whether these people should remain here or not. The House is the final arbiter on reports by the Committee of Privileges. The point that I raise is that, before the House has had an opportunity to express its opinion on the report of the Committee of Privileges in connexion with the first article by the Sun feature writer, he has written another article which, if anything, is more grievous than the first article. As the custodian of the rights and privileges of this House, will you examine the second article to see whether the writer has been guilty of contempt of the Parliament, and also, whether it was in good taste for the article to be published before the House had passed judgment on the first article in the light of the report of the Committee of Privileges?

Mr SPEAKER:

– If the honorable member for Dalley will furnish me with a copy of the second article, I shall examine it and express an opinion tomorrow on whether I think that a prima facie case of breach of privilege has been made out. Of what is good taste in these matters, I would hesitate to judge.

page 1535

QUESTION

TELEPHONE SERVICES

Mr COSTA:
BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

– My question is directed to the Postmaster-General. In view of statements that the honorable gentleman has made about a shortage of telephone equipment, will he inform the House of the total value of the telecommunications equipment that is held by his department in all of its stores throughout the Commonwealth ?

Mr ANTHONY:
Postmaster-General · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– I shall endeavour to obtain the information for which the honorable gentleman has asked.

Mr FITZGERALD:
PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the PostmasterGeneral whether he has issued any instructions to the Postmaster-General’s Department to safeguard telephone subscribers against charges being made to their accounts by the wrongful use of their private telephone numbers in connexion with trunk-line calls. By way of explanation I state that my question follows the exposure in Sydney that people, by dialling from public telephone boxes the number B071, which is the number of the Sydney exchange that handles trunk-line calls to the country, can secure trunk-line calls without delay and without any check being made on the authenticity of the call, to any part of the State during the off-peak periods. If the Minister is not aware of those facts I shall let him have copies of the Eastern Suburbs Advertiser of last Friday and of Sydney Truth of last Sunday, which contain the details of the matter.

Mr ANTHONY:

– I have heard of allegations that certain people can obtain trunk-line calls and have them falsely debited to the accounts of private telephone subscribers. I do not know what substance there is in these statements, but I shall have them investigated.

page 1535

QUESTION

GOVERNMENT LOANS AND FINANCE

Mr HAWORTH:
ISAACS, VICTORIA

– In explanation of my question to the Prime Minister. I remind the right honorable gentleman that a few weeks ago many sensational statements were made by the Premier of Victoria, Mr. McDonald, about the dire consequences that the decision of the Loan Council was forcing upon Victoria - a decision at which the Premier himself connived. Is the Prime Minister aware that workers in some of the Victorian hydroelectric projects that are alleged to be threatened by loan cuts are now angrily blaming the Victorian Government for having made them the scapegoats in what was nothing but a political stunt? Is it true that the panic action that was taken at the Kiewa Dam project has been proved to have been without justification, that the dismissals that took place there, were bungled, and that projects such as the Kiewa Dam will soon be faced with labour shortages-

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The honorable member appears to be attempting to raise a matter which is outside the jurisdiction of the Commonwealth.

Mr HAWORTH:

– The latest shortages

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order! Is the honorable gentleman attempting to get round my ruling?

Mr HAWORTH:

– No, Mr. Speaker. I refer to this matter because I believe that it is having effects that were not intended.

Mr MENZIES:
LP

– I have seen a reference to the matter referred to by the honorable member. I have no personal knowledge of the facts relating to the dismissals, but I should not be at all astonished to be told what the honorable member has just indicated. The Premier of Victoria keeps repeating that the Commonwealth, has, so to speak, “ done him down “ over his loan allocation. The truth is that the amount made available to Victoria for loan purposes was in accordance with a decision of the Loan Council that was concurred in by the Premier of Victoria. Indeed, such a decision could not have been arrived at without the support of two or three State Premiers.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Of two State Premiers.

Mr MENZIES:

– The Premier of Victoria was one of those who supported the cut in the loan programmes. It is also interesting to note that, when the Premier of Victoria left Canberra at the conclusion of the meeting of the Loan Council, he said to me and to some State Premiers that he was going away happy and that he thought he had been very well treated. Since then he has chosen to foment the complete falsehood that in some way he had been forced to cut down vital works because of something that the Commonwealth had done. The whole point is that this year he has substantially more loan money than the State of Victoria has ever before had in one year, and that the order in which he cares to cut down his works programme is a matter for him and not for us. If he chooses to decide that labour cuts shall be applied first to the electricity undertakings and that such undertakings should be given a high order of priority in dismissals, that is a matter for him and not for us to decide. I strongly suspect that a great many of the dismissals that we have been told have been made had a purely political origin.

page 1536

QUESTION

POTATOES

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been directed to what has been reported as an armed threat .by a potato-grower in the Lockyer district of Queensland against representatives of the Potato Marketing Board and government officials to prevent them from entering his property, except at the risk of their lives, in order to prohibit the sale of Queensland potatoes to the southern States at black market prices instead of to the Queensland public ? Can the right honorable gentleman explain the difference, if any, between the action of the Minister acting for the Minister of Commerce and Agriculture in preventing rice-growers from exporting rice from Australia while rice is in short supply to the consuming public, and the action taken by the Queensland Government and the Potato Marketing Board in endeavouring to ensure that the consumers of Queensland shall have an ample supply of potatoes? Further, does not the Prime Minister consider that a potatogrower or other person who makes an armed threat against the constitutional government of Queensland or any other legally constituted authority in Australia is liable to prosecution under the provisions of the Crimes Act ? As the people of Queensland consider that this is a serious matter, will the Prime Minister take immediate steps to place the facts of the case before the Australian Security Intelligence Organization with a view to taking the necessary action under the Crimes Act?

Mr MENZIES:
LP

– My attention has not been directed to the report referred to by the honorable member.

– Will the PostmasterGeneral say whether it is a fact that a number of female employees of the Postal Department, who were receiving 90 per cent, or 100 per cent, of the male rate of pay, have been dismissed ostensibly in accordance with the Government’s plan to sack 10,000 public servants? Is it also a fact that a number of those females have been offered re-employment in the department at 75 per cent, of the male rate of pay? If that is so, is it not a breach of the agreement entered into by the Public Service Board and the Public Service unions in connexion with the continuity of employment at 90 per cent, or 100 per cent, of the male rate of females who had been employed by the Postal Department for a certain period ?

Mr ANTHONY:
CP

– I have no personal knowledge of the matter to which the honorable member has referred but I shall endeavour to secure the information that he seeks.

Mr DUTHIE:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

– In answer to a question which I asked last week the PostmasterGeneral stated that the shortage of material was the main reason for the dismissals which had been effected from the Postmaster-General’s Department under the Government’s scheme for the retrenchment of 10,000 public servants. Is the Postmaster-General aware that I have received information from the secretary of the Hobart branch of the Postal Workers Union which indicates the existence of a contrary situation ? This officer of the union has stated -

The matter of the lack of equipment is incorrect. There is such an abundance of telephone equipment available that nobody knows what to do with it.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! Any question referring to a specific person must be placed on the notice-paper.

Mr DRUMMOND:

– Has the Prime Minister’s attention been drawn to the statement that Australia should break away from the sterling Hoc and attach itself to the dollar bloc under the leadership of the United States of America? Does the right honorable gentleman agree that if that course were adopted British Commonwealth relations might be impaired, and the effect on the greatest purchaser of Australian primary products might be very serious. In view of the possibilities involved will the right honorable gentleman assure the House that before any action of this character is taken honorable members will be fully consulted on the subject?

Mr MENZIES:
LP

– My attention has been directed to the statement to which the honorable member has referred and which was made by a distinguished Australian who is perfectly entitled to convey his own view. In order to make the position abundantly clear, I may say that Sir Douglas Copland does not speak for the Government, either directly or indirectly. He has expressed his own view on this subject. The Government itself has no such idea under contemplation.

page 1540

QUESTION

PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Mr LAWRENCE:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

– I desire to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether you will have an investigation made into why the cushions on the seats on the Government side of the House have been replaced by others which are much less comfortable. If those on this side of the House have been brought from the Opposition side, will you have all cushions examined? Opposition members have my sympathy if they are obliged to sit on the type of cushion that I have at present.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The quality of the cushions in this chamber has. engaged my attention for some time past. Some honorable member prefer one type of cushion whilst some prefer other types. If the honorable member for Wimmera will state his requirements to the Sergeant-at-Arms I have no doubt that he will be satisfied. As to the rest of the House, I should not like to give a guarantee.

page 1540

QUESTION

COMPULSORY ACQUISITION OF PROPERTY

Mr CREMEAN:
HODDLE, VICTORIA

page 1542

QUESTION

COMMUNISM

page 1543

EXCISE TARIFF REBATE ACT REPEAL BILL 1951

Assent reported.

page 1543

CIVIL AVIATION

Formal Motion for Adjournment

Mr SPEAKER:

-(Hon. Archie Cameron). - I have received from the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) an intimation that he desires to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter nf urgent public importance, namely -

The need in the public interest to maintain Trans-Australia Airlines in its present state nf independence.

Mr. DRAKEFORD (Maribyrnong) 1 4.7]. - I move -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Is the motion supported ?

Eight honorable members having risen in support of the motion.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– The need for a discussion on the advisability of maintaining Trans-Australia Airlines in its present state of independence should be obvious to honorable members on both sides of the House, because this subject has been causing concern in the public mind for many months, and no honorable member who has a sense of responsibility to his electors can afford to ignore it. I do not think that any honorable member will deny that the newspapers have been publishing many leading articles and special articles on the subject. Whilst I recognize that newspapers have the right to make suggestions from time to time on various matters, I consider that some of the suggestions that have been made about the sale of Trans-Australia Airlines are most unwarranted. In those circumstances, the Government should have announced its policy regarding TransAustralia Airlines. Because of its silence. Opposition members and. Government supporters alike have no knowledge of its intentions. Any action which will interfere with such a highly successful airline will be detrimental to Australia. Therefore, the Government should have made its position clear at the earliest possible moment.

Every member of the Opposition has observed with anxiety the evidence of a well organized agitation the objective of which is the abolition of this completely successful government enterprise. It is recognized that the strength of public opposition may prevent the sale of TransAustralia Airlines and, so, there is other evidence of a strong desire to retard its development, and to make its task so difficult that it will no longer be successful. There is a strong desire, under the pretence of putting Trans-Australia Airlines on a competitive basis with privatelyoperated airline companies, to reduce it to an unpayable organization, and to cripple it, before it is dealt a fatal blow which will make it no longer a threat to the much-vaunted services provided by private enterprise. It must be admitted that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited, through its acting general manager, has sought to detract from the success of TransAustralia Airlines, particularly in recent, times. The Government has contributed to, if it has not created, a state of public anxiety by allowing to go unanswered press criticisms that have come from apparently inspired quarters, and by its refusal to give information in answer to questions asked in this chamber and in the Senate. This has gone so far that thinking members of the public are remembering that the Government recently sold, without warning, the Commonwealth’s interest in Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited. The public fear that similar action may be taken in respect to Trans- Australia Airlines. When action of that kind can be taken without one of the directors having the slightest inkling of what was about to take place, as has been admitted by a member of this House, who was a director of Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited since its inception, the anxiety and suspicion of the public is fully justified. Silently and swiftly the Government accomplished its purpose, and the lesson learned from that experience is that the full light of public discussion should be turned on to the Government’s proposals, so that all may know what it intends to do with this highly valued institution.

The people have not forgotten, and are not likely to forget, that the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) said that Mr. Coles and Mr. Wilson would have to go. That was reported in the press during the 1949 election campaign, and I was asked about it on a number of occasions.

Mr Gullett:

– Hear, hear!

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– I can well understand the applause of the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Gullett) because, had Mr. Coles stood again for Parliament, the honorable member for Henty would not have been here. At any rate, Mr. Coles has gone from Trans-Australia Airlines, a fact for which I and thousands of people throughout Australia feel very sorry. He has a most capable mind, and was well fitted to develop an organization such as Trans-Australia Airlines. That he did so with great credit to himself and to the other members of the board no reasonable person would attempt to deny. We all regretted his resignation. It is no reflection on his very competent successor to say that Mr. Coles’s resignation was viewed with disappointment by his many admirers and supporters. He and his board started from scratch, or even from behind scratch, and competed successfully with already well established private airlines that had received generous assistance in the form of mail subsidies. It was not a matter of a powerful government organization competing against small privately owned enterprises as I shall make quite clear. I propose to give some information about the shareholding in Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited. It is owned by five great shipping companies, which possess huge resources that they do not hesitate to use in their endeavours to damage a government airline. They are continuously on the job, and have used the press in their campaign against Trans-Australia Airlines. That they have not succeeded in damaging the reputation of Trans-Australia Airlines is due to the splendid service that this organization has rendered to the public. The principal shareholdings are listed as follows : -

The total shareholding is £39S,70S. I cannot say whether there has been any alteration since that list was published because Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited, being a proprietary company, does not publish balance-sheets. However, the acting general manager, Mr. Walsh, has never hesitated to use all the figures that are available in the publicly circulated annual reports of Trans-Australia Airlines in order to try to prove that that organization has received favoured treatment. The Australian National Airlines Commission has always disclosed the real position in relation to the conduct of the affairs of the organization. Mr. Walsh’s statements have been completely unfounded, and I shall have more to say about them at a later stage. At this point I emphasize the fact that almost all of the shares in Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited are owned by shipping companies, a state of affairs that is not tolerated even in the United States of America, the home of private enterprise. Why do these shipping companies control Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited? The answer is that their object is to make airline services subsidiary, if necessary, to the interests of the shipping services. Not many Australians are aware that PainAmerican Airways received, a subsidy of one dollar twenty cents a mile for operating a service to Australia in opposition to British Commonwealth Pacific Airlines, which was merely carrying mail on a poundage basis. That fact was disclosed when an inquiry was made into an application by the Matson Navigation Company for permission to conduct an air service to Honolulu. The application was rejected because American shipping companies are not permitted to conduct airline services. We ought to consider whether shipping lines or other transport organizations in Australia should be allowed to own airlines and to try to dominate transport services. I do not know what the Government intends to do about Trans-Australia Airlines and T shall not make accusations against it, but I say that it is dangerous to allow big outside interests to control our airlines, which provide the life-blood for a vital artery of our communications system. Ansett Airways Limited recently announced that it would reduce fares. Such reductions may appear to be commendable, but the important fact is that the company provides a lower class of service than is provided by other airlines. The service is definitely second-class, because the company’s D.C.3 aircraft have 28 seats for passengers, compared with a maximum of 24 in similar aircraft operated by other companies. The announcement of the intention to reduce fares was made by the general manager of the company, whose statement, according to a report in the Sydney Daily Telegraph, included the following interesting explanation : -

Mr. R. D. Collins, general manager of Ansett Airways, said the cuts were possible because of economies through efficient use of aircraft and co-ordination of road, air, and hotel activities.

T emphasize the fact that the company was able to reduce its charges because of the profits that it received from motor coach services and hotels and because it provided a service inferior to that of other airlines. Tn the interests of public welfare, I ask the Government to keep its eyes on thu activities of Ansett Airways Limited. When I was Minister for Civil Aviation, the government of the day tried to prevent passenger charges from being lowered unduly because price-cutting campaigns of that sort throw a serious responsibility on the experts of the Department of Civil Aviation. Those experts are required to ensure that airline companies shall not reduce their standards below the safety margin.

Safety must be the first consideration in air transport. Nothing that is liable to mar the splendid record of our airlines should be tolerated. A question that was recently asked in this House elicited the fact that 109 persons had been killed as passengers of private airline companies and that only nine or ten had been killed as passengers of government airlines since their initiation. I am not foolish enough to believe that an accident could not alter those figures quickly, but I do say that it is practically impossible to get a higher standard of care and maintenance than that attained by Trans-Australia Airlines. Ansett Airways Proprietary Limited has a good record, but if honorable members travel in Ansett planes they will find that the service is second class by modern standards.

Mr Brown:

– Ansett Airways Pro- prietary Limited has a good record.

Mr Gullett:

– Not second class from the point of view of safety surely?

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– I am speaking of passenger carriage. The honorable member seems to be irritated by the fact that Trans-Australia Airlines is so good, but nobody can point a finger of scorn at it with justice, although many have tried to do so. There are honorable members on the Government side of the House who have declared that they would cross the floor if any attempt were made by the Government to sell or merge TransAustralia Airlines with another company. I agree with that attitude.

Reference to favoured treatment for Trans-Australia Airlines has frequently been made, not only in important daily newspapers, but in Parliament also with great emphasis. Tho charge is completely without justification. Reflections have been cast in another place also on the position of Trans-Australia Airlines and the report of its activities. Such statements reflect as well on the AuditorGeneral, who is hound to see that the accounts are properly presented and that nothing is hidden. It is his duty also to ensure that the report is presented in terms which can be understood readily by the public. The report is audited and certified by the Auditor-General, and suggestions that the balance-sheet does not give a true picture of the financial position are nonsense and apparently are being made in the interests of the competitors of Trans- Australia Airlines. The critics who adopt this line seem to have forgotten that in the period of seven years from 1939, Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited received more than £2,500,000 in mail payments. Apparently that fact has been concealed from the critics so that a good case could be made against Trans-Australia Airlines. The carriage of ordinary mail is a part of the obligation of a government airline. (Extension of time granted.’] In 1950-51 Trans-Australia Airlines carried 2,542 tons or 5,694,080 lb. of mail throughout Australia. That was an increase of 27 per cent, over the volume carried in the previous year. For that service TransAustralia Airlines received a lump sum of £540,000. Have honorable members any idea of the amount Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited received for carrying a much smaller quantity when that company was practically the only air-mail carrier in the Commonwealth? The sum of £540,000 i3 small in comparison with the amount paid for the carriage of air mail in 1943-44. In that year Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited was paid £7S3,725 for carrying 3,368,164 lb. over a network very much smaller than that of Trans-Australia Airlines. Moreover, at that time wages were much lower and petrol was cheaper. These facts should be known widely so that the public may understand the true nature of the allegations that favoured treatment is given to Trans-Australia Airlines. Neither Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited nor Ansett Airways Proprietary Limited has paid a penny piece in fees for air-route charges. No token payment has been made to indicate any liability. TransAustralia Airlines has paid £682,472 in respect of air-route charges, which, added to its profit of £420,617, makes a total of £1,103,089. The fact is that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited and the Ansett Airways Proprietary Limited organization have paid nothing in respect of these charges, although between them they have been asked for more than £750,000, but Trans-Australia Airlines has paid the full sum for which it has been asked and, since becoming firmly established, has made a substantial profit. If the Government believes that air-route charges cannot legally be collected from the companies which, for various reasons, are refusing to pay them, it should relieve Trans-Australia Airlines of the burden of paying the charges and should refund the money that the organization has paid in respect of them. If such a refund were made, Trans-Australia Airlines would be placed upon the same basis as Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited and Ansett Airways Proprietary Limited and its profit would be £1,103,0S9.

The Minister said recently, in reply to a question that I directed to him, that the report upon the operations of TransAustralia. Airlines - for which I thank him - would enable a comparison of Trans- Australia Airlines and other airlines to be made, but, as I have pointed out, it does not in fact enable that to bc done because we cannot ascertain what Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited is doing. I do not believe that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited is losing money, nor do I believe that there is any justification for merging it with TransAustralia Airlines. As I have said previously. Trans-Australia Airlines is an institution in this country. Although the report is a good one, it does not enable us to compare Trans-Australia Airlines with other airlines, the reports of which, especially in the case of Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited, are remarkable for what they refuse to disclose. We know from answers to questions that the percentage passenger loading of Trans-Australia Airlines is much higher than is that of any other airline in this country. That demonstrates clearly that TransAustralia Airlines is much more popular than are the other airlines. But the percentage passenger loading conveys no information about freight carriage. It is well known that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited has three Bristol freighters and that it carries a great deal more freight than does TransA.ustralia Airlines. I have no objection to that, because Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited displayed initiative and resource in securing those freighters and in using them for the carriage of freight.

Let me return to the question of all mails. Trans-Australia Airlines derives 3.7 per cent, of its total revenue from charges made for the carriage of air mails. Do honorable gentlemen opposite know, or have they been informed, that the percentage is much higher in the case of airlines in other countries, some of which derive >up to 25 per cent, and even 35 per cent, of their total revenue from charges made for the carriage of air mails. Yet we have been told that Trans-Australia Airlines has received favoured treatment because it has been paid £540,000 in respect of the carriage of air mails, notwithstanding that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited was paid £783,000 for a much lesser service than that which has been rendered by Trans-Australia Airlines. Honorable gentlemen opposite say not a word about that. No airline should be dependent upon profits from other sources to make it a payable proposition, but if the present state of affairs continues the Government should consider permitting Trans-Australia Airlines to acquire and operate hotels for its customers, and thus to make proper provision for their accommodation when they arrive at city terminals. I should like to see Trans-Australia Airlines operating hotels in the same way as the Qantas organization is operating the Wentworth Hotel in .Sydney in order to provide terminal facilities for its passengers.

Much more could be said. There is an immense field which could, and I hope will, be covered by other speakers. I repeat that Trans-Australia Airlines is an institution in Australia. The Adelaide Moil, which has the largest circulation of any weekly newspaper in South Australia, stated on the 22nd September, 1951 -

Any interference which brings back a monopoly “ inter-Commonwealth flying “ will be resented by the people, even by many of those who were anti-T.A.A. in the first years of its service. T.A.A. has become an Australian institution. There is nothing which can take its place.

I agree that there is nothing that can take its place. That is only a sample of what has appeared in leading articles of newspapers in many States. The other airline companies that sneered at Trans-Australia Airlines when it was established and that now desire to bring about a merger with it, should not be allowed to get away with that or something in the nature of what was done in relation to Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited. The Government should immediately declare its intentions with regard to the independence of TransAustralia Airlines. It should state clearly that it does not intend to give to that airline’s private enterprise competitors and favours in addition to those that they are already receiving. I could recite many of thehm.

Mr Hulme:

– What about air mails?

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– The honorable member could not have been listening, I have already dealt with that matter. I have pointed out that Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited was paid £783,000 for a much lesser service than that for which Trans-Australia Airlines has been paid £540,000.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable gentleman’s extended time has expired.

Mr ANTHONY:
PostmasterGeneral and Minister for Civil Aviation · Richmond · CP

– The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) has naturally approached this matter with a great deal of enthusiasm, because he was Minister for Civil Aviation in the government that established TransAustralia Airlines. If he believed that his godchild was in danger, nobody could blame him for springing to its defence. His speech this afternoon was, in general, a special plea for Trans-Australia Airlines and a recital of what ever facts he had been able to muster that he thought - would tend to disparage the private airlines. Honorable members on this side of the House have a very great respect and admiration for the services which Trans-Australia Airlines is rendering to the Australian travelling public. We are not less appreciative of those services than are members of the Opposition. But there is an obligation not only upon the Government but also upon all members of Parliament to ensure that all organizations in this country that are engaged in air transportation or in any other business shall receive equitable treatment from the Government. What should be done with Trans-Australia Airlines and Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited cannot be determined by a snap decision and without a complete knowledge of all the facts and circumstances appertaining to each organization. Therefore, when this Government assumed office, one of its earlier actions was to try to ascertain those facts and circumstances. As the honorable member for Maribyrnong said, Trans-Australia Airlines publishes a balance-sheet that all who run may read. Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited is a proprietary company. Acting in accordance with its undoubted rights, it does not publish a balance-sheet. It regards its business as something that is wholly confidential to itself.

Mr Calwell:

– Unholy.

Mr ANTHONY:

– Not unholy, as the honorable member for Melbourne (Mr. Calwell) has suggested. Any proprietary company can refuse to make available to thepublic details of its activities. When Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited approached the Government and explained the undoubted difficulties under which it was labouring in endeavouring to maintain its services, the Government said that, to enable a true comparison to be made of Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited and Trans-Australia Airlines, it wanted from the former company information about its operations comparable with that which was made available by Trans-Australia Airlines. Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited was asked whether it was prepared to permit its books to be examined by an independent accountant, appointed by the Government, on the understanding that the accountant examined the books of Trans-Australia Airlines on a similar basis, in order that a report could be prepared that would enable a true comparison of both companies to be made. Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited, although it was a private organization, agreed to that being done. It said that, in its view, its case was sufficiently strong to withstand any investigation. The Government then appointed a leading firm of accountants in Australia to examine the books of both organizations in order to ascertain their bases of costs, how they were operating, whether they held secret reserves, the ratio of their expenditure to the volume of their operations, and in general whether they were being conducted on an equally efficient basis or whether there was slackness in their administration.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Why were those investigations made?

Mr ANTHONY:

– So that private enterprise would be given an opportunity to compete on a fair basis with a government enterprise.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! I must ask honorable members to cease interjecting. A running fire of interjections has been maintained by the Opposition since tho Postmaster-General rose to address the House.

Mr Pollard:

– There were many interjections from the Government side when the honorable member for Maribyrnong addressed the House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– That is so, but they were not as frequent as they have been during the last few minutes.

Mr ANTHONY:

– We all are concerned about the future of the employees of the two organizations. Many of them fear that their future is at stake. I assure honorable members that whatever is done, the same number of aircraft will have to be flown to cope with traffic requirements, the .same number of engineers will have to be employed and the same number of hostesses and pilots will have to be retained whether the air services are conducted by Trans-Australia Airways and Australian National Airways Proprietary Limited as separate organizations or as an amalgamated organization. I do not intend to indicate the Government’s decision at this stage. It is considering carefully all aspects of this difficult and vexed subject. I can only say in conclusion that I expect that an announcement of Government policy will be made in this matter before f.:e tuc of the present sittings.

Motion (by Mr. Eric J. Harrison”) proposed -

That the question be now put.

Opposition members interjecting,

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The Standing Orders provide that when Mr. Speaker is on his feet there shall be silence in the House. The question is, “ That the question be now put “.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 58

NOES: 43

Majority 15

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question put -

That the House do nowadjourn.

The House divided. (Mr.Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 44

NOES: 58

Majority…… 14

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

page 1550

WHEAT INDUSTRY STABILIZATION (REFUND OF CHARGE) BILL 1951

Second Reading

Mr ANTHONY:
Post master-General · Richmond · CP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill provides for a refund of the wheat tax, which was paid in respect of exports from the 1948-49 wheat crop. Deliveries from this crop comprised the No. 12 wheat pool. Wheat-growers paid £12,496,000 in tax on wheat exported from No. 12 pool, and the Government has decided to refund this amount, together with interest earned upon it, to that pool. The money will be distributed to wheatgrowers, in the usual way, as a payment from the pool. The 1948-49 wheat crop was a heavy one, and deliveries from that crop to the Australian Wheat Board totalled 174,000,000 bushels. Of that quantity 115,000,000 bushels were exported, and the rate of tax payable on such exports was 2s. 2d. a bushel. When spread over the whole pool, the amount collected as export tax was equivalent to an average of1s. 5d. a bushel.

The No. 12 pool was the first pool to which the post-war marketing arrangements applied, as all the earlier pools were operated under National Security Regulations. The money has been held in a trust fund on behalf of the wheatgrowing industry, and it is now proposed to repay it to growers, since the amount involved is no longer needed for the purposes of the Wheat Stabilization Fund. This action is in accordance with the declared policy of the Government that excessive amounts would not be held in the fund.

A basic feature of the wheat stabilization plan is a financial contribution by the wheat industry towards its own future security. This contribution is made by growers while export prices are above production costs. The Commonwealth, on its part, undertakes that for the duration of the plan wheat-growers willreceive a guaranteed price, equal to the cost of production which may be determined for each season. The Commonwealth guarantee, which applies to wheat exported, up to 100,000,000 bushels each year, is supplemented by joint legislation, enacted by all State governments, under which the same price is assured for all wheat sold for domestic use in Australia. The current wheat stabilization plan covers the period to the end of the 1952-53 wheat season, and negotiations are in progress, with the States and with wheat-growers’ organizations, for an extension of the plan.

In accordance with its understanding with the industry, the Government does not wish to hold in trust amounts which appear to be in excess of the requirements of the stabilization plan. At the present time the amount held in the fund is £35,000,000, which is made up from the joint tax proceeds of No. 12 pool, No. 13 pool and part of No. 14 pool. The operations of No. 14 pool, which covers the 1950-51 crop, are still by no means complete.

With the repayment of tax on exports from the 1948-49 crop, the stabilization fund will hold less than two seasons’ contributions, but this is regarded as a reasonable situation. A succession of good crops in Australia lias coincided with high prices for wheat exported. As a result the stabilization fund has been buoyant, and funds have previously been approved by Parliament in respect of earlier pools. No. 12 pool is now the oldest contributing pool to the fund, and it is intended to repay the whole of the amount received from the 1948-49 crop, rather than to make a pro rata refund to all contributing pools. This principle of first in, first out, is endorsed by growers’ organizations as the most satisfactory way of arranging refunds to the industry. Notwithstanding the fact that two later pools have actually contributed to the fund, I wish to make it clear that in repaying these moneys to the oldest pool the Government will be acting in accordance with the wishes of the growers in relation to the method of repayment. It is wheatgrowers’ money, and the industry has indicated that it regards this method as the fairest, as well as the easiest, to operate. Many growers drop out of the industry each year, and are replaced by new growers, and it is only reasonable that the fund should be built up by those who will get the actual benefit from it in the event of a fall of prices in the future.

Reference has been made to the negotiations that are in progress for an extension of the plan. Naturally, the financial provisions necessary for an extended plan must be considered fully, especially in view of some uncertainty about the future. However, the payment of the refund of tax on the 194S-49 wheat crop is justified, since it represents an amount that is no longer needed in the fund.

The bill is evidence of the Government’s policy not to ask wheat-growers to make any more than a fair contribution to a fund to ensure the stability of their industry in future years. It is presented with confidence that it will meet with the general approval of all sections of the community. I commend the measure to the consideration of honorable members.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Pollard) adjourned.

page 1551

LAND TAX ASSESSMENT BILL 1951

Second Reading

Debate resinned from the 11th October (vide page 539), on motion by Sir Arthur Fadden -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr TOM BURKE:
Perth

.- The Opposition supports this measure, the purpose of which, as the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) pointed out in his second-reading speech, is to obviate work that produces little return to the Treasury. The principal act provides that if a shareholder’s interest in the unimproved value of land owned by a company does not exceed £100, or if the aggregate of his interests in a number of companies does not exceed £500 he need not lodge a land tax return. This amending legislation doubles those sums. That is the only aspect of the land tax to which the Opposition gave specific consideration and on which it arrived at any decision. My personal view, however, is that the Government should not have varied the existing practice in connexion with land valuations. The Treasurer said in his budget speech -

The land tax for the financial year 1951-52, based on the land owned at the 30th June, 1951, will be based upon the actual unimproved values as at that date in contrast to the pegged values which have been the basis of land assessments since the financial year 1041-42.

I believe that the Government should examine the position that existed prior to that date. Land values to-day are based on ruling high prices for primary products and are therefore at artificial levels. I refer particularly to agricultural land although the same argument would hold true with regard to city values. However, when prices fall, as I believe they will, the land values of the present will prove to have been inflated and unreal. For that reason, the Government might well have continued to collect the land tax on the basis previously adopted.

This is a machinery measure and it will not have any effect in the direction of inducing large landholders to dispose of their land. That was the primary purpose of land taxation. Although this bill will not achieve that result the altered valuation will impose a hardship on new settlers who have had to meet high capital costs for stock, plant and equipment. These people will be taxed by the Government on a greatly increased valuation. I believe that to be wrong and unjust and I think that the Government could well have allowed values to remain as they were prior to the introduction of this amendment. I assume that the majority of new’ settlers are ex-servicemen who are being rehabilitated. If that assumption be correct, the hardship that the new valuation will cause will be borne mainly by them. That is my personal view. No decision has been made with regard to this matter by Opposition members as a whole nor has it been discussed by them in the party room because the amendment does not deal with that aspect of the situation.

Although Opposition members discussed the subject of the £5,000 minimum on which land tax is imposed they made no decision on it. Some of them considered that the minimum was too low, and that the Government might consider a higher minimum valuation upon which land tax shall be payable. The Opposition supports the bill, which it considers is designed to achieve the result intended when section 39 was inserted in the act.

Mr CREAN:
MELBOURNE PORTS, VICTORIA · ALP

– Now that the Land Tax Act has beer in operation for approximately 40 years, it is time that the House should consider whether it has achieved the intended object. Figures published by the Commissioner of Taxation show that the amount of land tax collected in respect of the year 1949-50 was £4,210,000, which would seem to indicate that receipts from land tax do not constitute a very significant proportion of the total revenue collected by the Government. Those who introduced this act intended that it should be a means not so much of collecting revenue as of bringing about the subdivision of big estates. Now, 40 years after its introduction, it is doubtful whether the land tax has achieved the purpose for which it was intended. Unfortunately, the Commissioner of Taxation has not published in his last few reports the statistics that he used to supply in his annual report concerning the land tax. It is necessary to refer to the twenty-third report of the Commissioner of Taxation, published in March, 1943, in order to obtain any indication of the social implications of this form of taxation.

In that report, the commissioner provided details of the amount of tax collected, where it was collected, and the sort of people from whom it was collected. It is interesting to note that in the year 1939-40 land tax was paid by 1S,406 individuals and 2,989 companies. lt seems most peculiar that a method has been evolved for treating companies separately from individuals. Companies ave not treated as entities. Such a concept is not usually associated with companies. A share in a company is generally regarded not as real property but as personal property. This notional basis has been written into the Land Tax Act and it is apparently assumed that the shareholders, with certain limitations which are proposed to be varied by this bill, are trustees for the company which owns the land. I should like to know why it is not possible to treat a company as an entity and why it is necessary to consider a company’s land as being held by the various shareholders. It would simplify the act if companies were treated on the same basis as individual holders. I understand that that has, in fact, happened. Shareholders are not primary taxpayers hut secondary taxpayers. Yet the involved procedure prescribed by the act has to be undertaken in order to ascertain the liability of the company. I suggest that it is doubtful whether what was intended under the original Land Tax Act has been accomplished.

Our line of thought about the land tax may need some recasting. An honorable member suggested recently that the entire taxation structure should be altered with reference to the basis of assessment of land tax. The original exemption of land worth less than £5,000 has been retained although an unimproved value of £5,000 was very different in 1910 from what it is in 1951. Unfortunately, very little opportunity has been given to the Parliament properly to assess the social effects of taxation. The information that honorable members have at their disposal is usually two or three years old. In the case of the land tax, statistics have not been published for approximately nine years so that it is very difficult for honorable members to ascertain its effects. Those who have to pay this tax know that because their land is valued at a certain amount they will have to pay land tax. They regard that fact as a nuisance but do not view it from any social aspect. Such a man says, “I have to pay £100 as land tax, or £1,000 as land tax “ and treats that as a form of outgoing or expenditure. When land is about to be sold, prospective buyers take into effect the amount of land tax that will be payable in determining the price that they are prepared to pay for it. Instead of becoming a social instrument, the tax becomes capitalized when it is first imposed. Economists have claimed that afterwards, apart from variations of the rate, it has no social impact at all. Whether or not that is true in Australia I do not know. We have not before us sufficient information to enable us to deal effectively with taxation problems that come before this House. That may become the function of the proposed Public Accounts Committee, or of some other committee. But certainly the Parliament should examine the fundamentals of the system of taxation in vogue in order to ascertain whether it is achieving the social result that it is intended to achieve.

As the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Tom Burke) has stated, the Opposition does not oppose this measure. It merely criticizes, at least indirectly, the failure of the land tax to achieve what it was introduced to achieve, namely, the breaking up of big estates, in order to encourage small holders, which is necessary if we are to increase or primary production. I consider that we should alter the incidence of the tax by increasing it progressively according to the value of the land, or, as the honorable member for New England (Mr. Drummond) suggested recently, we should abolish it altogether. Apart from an occasional airing of the subject in this House, very little is done about it. I consider it to be primarily the duty of the Parliament, not a committee on taxation or any other outside body, to attend to this matter. Honorable members should evaluate the information that is placed before them in order to decide whether an alteration should be effected. I suggest that consideration should be given to an alteration of the whole structure” of land taxation in Australia.

Mr CRAMER:
Bennelong

.- In addressing myself to this subject shortly, I shall not cover the ground that has already been covered by the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Crean). I suggest seriously that the Government should abandon this field of taxation altogether. The measure before the House is designed to yield revenue totalling £7,500,000, compared with £3,591,139 during the last financial year. I do not oppose it, because it is a part of the machinery of taxation that is in existence, and as such, the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) was bound to consider what should be done about this field of taxation. The Treasurer should also consider the implications of the land tax. Some of the States impose a specific land tax as well as local government taxes and other taxes. There is, therefore, considerable duplication of taxation on land. Local governing bodies derive most of their revenue from the taxation of land, and now regard this as their principal source of revenue.

I believe all honorable members will agree that local governing bodies are now in a very tight corner financially. Indeed, I cannot see how those bodies will be able to continue to carry out their present functions, particularly in the social field, unless they can obtain additional revenue from other than taxes paid by property owners. If local government taxation were increased the burden on property owners would become intolerable. If the Commonwealth were to vacate the field of land taxation altogether, a considerable saving of overhead charges would be effected. In addition to valuers employed by the States, the Commonwealth employs a number of officers, some very highly paid, to make valuations for the purpose of land taxation. That is one field in which there is duplication. Of course, there are many different systems of valuing. In New South Wales, the Valuer-General’s Department makes valuations. In other States there is a somewhat similar system, but a valuation of a different type is made for the purpose of taxation by local governing bodies, and for other purposes.

One could speak at length on the duplication of Commonwealth and State jurisdiction and administration. ‘ Although the revenue that is derived by the Commonwealth from the land tax is not great, this measure will increase considerably the number of people who will be required to pay that tax. The value of land in this country has risen by between 100 per cent, and 300 per cent., according to its location. As the honorable member for Melbourne Ports rightly said, originally this tax was intended to achieve the breaking up of large rural holdings. I do not know to what degree it has been successful in that respect. However, as a result of this measure there will be scarcely any land in the cities of this country not subJect to land tax. As a matter of fact one can apply that, observation also to country holdings. Under this measure the principles of the tax can be applied to areas that are not big enough to be subdivided, that is to holdings that are only big enough for one person to work. The value of land has increased tremendously during the last few years, and in consequence of this proposal land tax will be levied on a much greater number of persons than previously paid it. I doubt whether the advisers of the Treasurer are in a position to say how many additional taxpayers will be involved. The revenue raised from this particular source may exceed the estimate of £7,500,000. In New South Wales and other States a vicious system of rent pegging still operates. Perhaps its introduction was necessary. The effect of it is that rents are pegged at the level that existed on the 31st August, 1939. This system is completely unfair, and denies any form of justice to the owners of property.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! It seems to me that the honorable member is now speaking of a matter that is outside the scope of this bill.

Mr CRAMER:

– What I am about te say is relevant to the matter of taxation, because in the States in which rent pegging still exists the fair rents tribunals, when fixing rents, do not take into consideration the federal taxation imposed on land. Land tax has been specifically excluded from the assessment of the fair rents of properties. Some organizations, because of their ramifications, have to hold properties in practically all the cities of Australia. In such cases, and in others where big city properties are involved, it can be shown that because of the imposition of land tax and other taxes, the net revenue is completely extinguished so far as the property-owner is concerned. That is a very serious matter. Surely it is unfair that a propertyowner, who must abide by the government fixation of his rent, should be denied the right to have taken into consideration the amount that he is obliged to pay as land tax under Commonwealth legislation. The Treasurer should consider that matter. On this occasion the value of land exempt from the tax should have been raised above £5,000 in order to meet modern conditions. We should have either done that, or reduced the tax on a graduated scale according to the area of land held by any person. Moreover, some concession might be given by way of obliteration of the excess amount chargeable over a certain sum. The super tax that is imposed in respect of land the value of which is greater than a certain sum would, if abolished, assist some of the people who will be hardest hit by the taxation imposed under this measure.

This field of taxation is of such slight importance in the taxation structure of the Commonwealth that it would be a very good thing if the Australian Governmen abandoned it to the States. They in turn could remit it to their local government authorities. I seriously submit that suggestion to the Treasurer, who, although perhaps not able to act in such a way at present, may be able to give serious consideration to it when preparing his next budget. If this were done it would save administrative costs to the Commonwealth and would release certain officers for more urgent work with State instrumentalities. Such a change would be beneficial and would prevent the duplication of certain functions which exists throughout Australia.

Mr CALWELL:
Melbourne

.- The honorable member for Bennelong (Mr. Cramer) has made a tantalizing speech. He suggested that the Treasurer should vacate the field of land taxation, but did not give an assurance that he would not later suggest that the Australian Government should assume responsibility for the payment of the toll on the Sydney harbour bridge. It is of no use to suggest that the Government vacate taxation fields and then ask it to spend more money. There is no merit at all in his suggestion that the Commonwealth should vacate the field of land taxation, or, indeed, any other field of taxation. I am opposed to his suggestion that the Commonwealth, with all its burdens and responsibilities, should make such a gesture towards State governments. Then the honorable member expressed the pious hope that the State government would not take advantage of the gesture, but would allow their local government authorities to increase their revenues by higher rating.

There were two schools of thought on taxation at the beginning of this century, and during the last decade of the nineteenth century. One was that which followed Henry George, who believed that all taxation should be levied on land. There are some people who still think that there is merit in that idea. Land tax was origi nally imposed in order to produce revenue. In 1910, the Fisher Government used it to break up many big estates. An Irish reformer named Michael Davitt stated that his country needed an agrarian revolution every generation. I consider that agrarian revolutions are needed in this country every generation also, because no matter how the land tax is applied there is always the tendency that land will fall into fewer and fewer hands as the years go by. The Treasurer might ascertain the degree to which the land tax could be used to break up existing big estates so that there should be more food-producing areas and fewer areas for grazing bullocks.

Mr ERIC J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– Bullocks are food.

Mr CALWELL:

– Bullocks are valuable, but the growing of food on small plots of land is more valuable to Australia than is the use of big areas for beef production. The bill as presented is not objected to by the Opposition. We believe that administrative costs should be reduced and methods evolved whereby a lot of departmental work would be eliminated. Insofar as the Treasurer seeks to bring that about I think that hid action is to be commended. Other proposed amendments of the act have been circulated. One of them proposes that the salary of the Commissioner of Land Tax shall be increased to £4,000 a year and that of the Assistant Commissioner to £3,000. The amount of the increase of the Commissioner’s salary will be £500 a year, and that of the Assistant Commissioner’s, £250 a year. I cannot see why there should be a distinction between the respective increases. In. any event, the salaries already appear to me to be reasonably high. If the department was a particularly busy one and handled a great deal of revenue, I could understand the proposal.

Sir Arthur Fadden:

– The salaries specified are paid for the performance of all the duties that the Commissioner and the Assistant Commissioner discharge, which relate not only to land tax but also to income tax, payroll tax, sales tax and every other tax the administration of which falls within the province of the Taxation Branch. This is the only legal means of achieving the purpose that we have in view.

Mr CALWELL:

– If that he so, the action of the Treasurer can he seen in a different light. The Opposition does not oppose the passage of the bill. However, I could not miss the opportunity to put the honorable member for Bennelong (Mr. Cramer) on the right track, even though that track does not lead in the direction of the Sydney harbour bridge.

Mr KEON:
Yarra

.- Although this bill deals with that section of the taxation power of the Commonwealth which is responsible for raising the least amount of revenue, it involves a number of important principles. The last report of the Commissioner of Land Tax disclosed that the revenue derived from land tax in the Commonwealth was only 1.1 per cent, of the total taxation revenue, and that that figure had not increased to any appreciable .degree since 1945. That disclosure lends a great deal of weight to the argument that the Government should use land tax for the purpose for which it was originally designed. In other words, land tax should be imposed with the object of breaking up large estates or .of applying a kind of .social compulsion. A great deal of the cost of land tax collections is covered by the cost of collection of income taxes, because in many instances the officers concerned work side by side. If the Government is not prepared to use land tax for ,the object that I have stated, it would be better advised to forget land tax and collect the amount of .tax (through ordinary income ,tax channels. However, I myself do not approve of that method. I believe that land tax should be imposed not to raise revenue .but to improve the production of food.

As the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) represents .country interests, I should have thought that he would have given consideration to differentiation between the various types of primary production. The wool-grower, who sells his products at world parity prices and who accordingly receives for them a higher price than other primary producers receive for theirs, is treated for the purposes of land tax, on exactly the same basis as is .the dairy-farmer or the meat producer.

Mr Adermann:

– Many meat producers and dairy-farmers are exempt because they are on leasehold land. They are not taxed at all.

Mr KEON:

– They are not all on leasehold land. Undoubtedly the dairy-farmer and the meat producer are obliged to-day to sell their products under fixed contracts and at prices which the members of the Australian Country party suggest are not payable prices. They are therefore in a much less favorable position than are the wool-growers, who are the only primary producers in the community who are able to sell their products at world parity prices. I suggest to the Treasurer that in future deliberations in regard to taxation measures of this kind, a distinction should be drawn between the man who uses his land to grow a product which may be sold on the world markets at greatly enhanced profits to ‘ himself, and the man who is obliged to sell his products, under contract, to the United Kingdom. It would seem that, until such a distinction is drawn, many producers will be committed to the sale of their products at prices which are less than the cost of production.

This legislation also deals with companies that own land. From my reading of Australian agricultural history, which perhaps is not so extensive as is that of some honorable members opposite, the operations of such companies are not what they might be. It is only necessary to consider the position of the Northern Territory to-day in order to see what happens to the Australian countryside when large tracts of land are owned by companies, the shareholders of which never even see the properties concerned. In many instances, decline of the properties inevitably results from such ownership. Erosion and loss of fertility follow. I submit that numerous concessions should not be given to companies which own land. Instead, the Government should direct its policy to an extension of personal ownership, through which proper use may be made of the soil and vital food production may be increased.

The Australian Labour party does not oppose the passage of the bill, but I h,ope to remain long enough in this Parliament to see the introduction of land tax legislation .designed to correct .the catastrophic decline of primary production. That decline threatens the continued supply of the food that goes on to the tables of the people who reside in areas such as that which I represent. It was discussed by Professor Sir Stanton Hicks at the recent conference of the Australian Primary Producers’ Union at Albury. People who live in the industrial areas of the cities may soon find that instead of such commodities as onions, butter, lamb and beef being in short supply for a time, they will be permanently unobtainable. The Treasurer is more responsible than is any other member of the Parliament for ensuring that the policy of the Government shall be directed towards checking that decline of essential production, in order to protect the welfare of not only primary producers, but also every member of the community, especially those who are dependent upon wages.

Mr Eggins:

– Would the constituents of the honorable member be prepared to help to produce food under existing conditions ?

Mr KEON:

– 1 assure the honorable gentleman that many residents of the State electorate of Richmond, in which factories are numerous, would be only too glad to go to rural areas if the Govern- ment would give to them the opportunity to do so. The amount of revenue to be. derived from this tax will be determined by the number of persons on the land. The Government should implement an effective policy of rural settlement. It should give greater encouragement .to young men to go on the land. I trust that the rural ginger group which, according to press reports, was formed within the Government parties last week, will persuade the Government to do something along those lines.

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN:
McPhersonTreasurer · CP

– in reply- I should not have found it necessary ‘to reply to the debate but for the specious argument advanced by the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Keon), who takes every opportunity to focus attention on what he describes as neglect on the part of members of the Australian Country party of the interests of the man on the land. Land tax is ‘not a new tax. The honorable member has been associated for many years with the party that was instrumental in instituting it, because it was originally introduced in 1910 by the Fisher Government. It would be interesting to know whether the honorable member has done anything to accelerate the subdivision of big estates in order to increase rural productivity, which the Fisher Governmentclaimed was its objective in instituting the land tax. When the honorable member said that land tax was impeding production of foodstuffs, he overlooked the fact that the tax is levied only in respect of properties whose value exceeds .£5,000. He ignored the fact that an overwhelming proportion of foodstuffs is produced on leasehold land which is exempt from land tax. In the circumstances in which we find ourselves to-day, this tax ig an indispensable source of revenue. For that reason the Government has decided that the tax shall be assessed on actual values instead of on values that were pegged in 1942.

Mr Tom Burke:

– Is the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) prepared to comment on that point ?

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN. ^ Land values have moved with the times. Does the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Tom Burke) suggest that the value of land has not increased since 1942? The value of land is the basis upon which revenue must he obtained through this tax .either by assessing it in respect of true land values or by increasing the rate on the present pegged values.

Mr Tom Burke:

– That is all that 3 wanted to know. This amendment is being made purely for revenue purposes?

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN:

– That is obvious; and it is useless to try to hide the fact. I should be delighted to abandon every field pf taxation, if it were possible to do so.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and committed pro forma; -progress reported.

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Sir Arthur Fadden) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a new clause to be inserted in a bill for an act to amend the Land Tax Assessment Act 1910-1950.

Resolution reported and adopted.

In committee: Consideration resumed.

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Commencement).

Amendment (by Sir Arthurfadden) agreed to -

That clause 2 be left out, with a view to insert inlieu thereof the following clause: - “ 2. This Act shall be deemed to have come into operation on the first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and fifty-one.”.

Clauses 3 and 4 agreed to.

New clause 2a.

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN:
McPhersonTreasurer · CP

– I move -

That the following new clause be inserted: - “ 2a. Sectionfive of the Principal Act is amended by omitting sub-section (5.) and inserting in its stead the following subsection : - (5.) There is payable to the Commissioner a salary at the rate of Four thousand pounds a year and to the Assistant Commissioner a salary at the rate of Three thousand pounds a year, out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund, which is appropriated accordingly.’.”.

The purpose of this amendment is to provide that the salary of the Commissioner of Land Tax shall be £4,000 per annum in lieu of £3,500 per annum as at present, and that that of the Assistant Commissioner of Land Tax shall be £3,000 instead of £2,750 per annum. The change is being made in recognition of the heavy increase of the duties and responsibilities of those officials in recent years. Honorable members are doubtless aware that the officers who are appointed Commissioner and Assistant Commissioner, respectively, under the Land Tax Assessment Act are statutorily appointed by the relevant acts to be the Commissioner and the Second Commissioner of Taxation, respectively, for the purposes of the income tax and social services contribution, sales tax, pay-roll tax, entertainments tax and a number of other direct taxes of lesser importance. The commissioners are required to carry heavy independent responsibilities in the administration and interpretation of the com plicated provisions of the various taxing acts. Those responsibilities must be exercised by them in an individual capacity. The interpretations that are given are subject to critical examination and contest by skilled accountants and lawyers, and must also stand the test both of boards of review and of the High Court of Australia.

In addition to the tasks that arise out of the interpretation of the taxing laws, there devolves upon the commissioners the duty of collecting and protecting the revenue of the Commonwealth. For this purpose, since the advent of uniform taxation, there has come under the personal management of the commissioners a large Australia-wide organization with twelve branch offices, in which between 7,000 and 8,000 persons are employed, compared with fewer than 1,000 in 1925 and 1,100 in 1939, when there were only seven branch offices. The extent of the increase of the responsibilities of the commissioners, primarily in consequence of uniform taxation, is strikingly demonstrated by some comparative statistics. In 1925, they administered only four acts, received 220,000 income tax returns and collected £16,000,000 in revenue. By 1939, they were administering six acts, receiving 400,000 returns and collecting £28,400,000. This year they administer eleven acts, and receive no fewer than 3.500,000 income tax returns, and it is estimated that a total of £756,000,000 will be collected in revenue in the current financial year.

The nation’s expanding economy since the termination of World War II. has added greatly to the magnitude and importance of the posts occupied by the Commissioner and the Second Commissioner of Taxation. The higher prevailing rates of tax have also increased their responsibilities, because there is a greater tendency on the part of taxpayers to evolve means of lessening their liability and, in consequence, there is a greater degree of challenge to the commissioners’ interpretations. One result of that development is that, whereas in past years one board of review dealt comfortably with appeals from decisions on objections, at present three boards are heavily engaged with cases. Another result is that the legislative programme that is necessary to circumvent means of avoiding tax has become much heavier. The initial work of this programme must, of necessity, devolve upon the commissioners.

Therefore it will be appreciated that it is both appropriate and necessary that the remuneration of the commissioners shall be commensurate with the responsibilities that they are called upon to shoulder. When I mention that the annual salary of the Taxation Officer of one of the large public companies of Australia, whose responsibilities do not extend beyond the taxation affairs of the company, receives a salary equal to that at present given to the Commissioner of Taxation, honorable members will realize that there is every justification for the proposed increases. Accordingly I commend this amendment to the committee.

Mr TOM BURKE:
Perth

.- The Opposition has not discussed this new clause, and, therefore, any remarks that I make upon it will express my personal opinion. I endorse the statement of the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) that the Commissioner of Taxation and the Second Commissioner occupy two of the most responsible and onerous positions in the community, and I agree with the principle that such men should be paid salaries to which they are justly entitled. The Commonwealth, in order to obtain the services of first-class men for those high positions, must offer attractive salaries. I believe that, in the present Com m issi oner of Taxation and the Second Commissioner, we have the best men, and I consider that their salaries should be commensurate with the importance of their offices.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

New clause agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments; report - by leave - adopted.

Bill -by leave - read a third time.

Sitting suspended from 6.1 to 8 p.m.

page 1559

QUESTION

ESTIMATES 1951-52

Declaration ofurgency.

Mr ERIC J HARRISON:
Vice-President of the Executive Council and Minister for Defence Production · WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– I declare (a) that the Estimates of Expenditure are of an urgent nature; (b) that the resolutions preliminary to the introduction of the Appropriation Bill are urgent resolutions; and (c) that the Appropriation Bill is an urgent bill.

Question put -

That the Estimates be considered of an urgent nature; that the resolutions be considered urgent resolutions; and that the Appropriation Bill be considered an urgent bill.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 52

NOES: 40

Majority…… 12

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Allotment of Time

Motion (by Mr. Eric J. Harrison) proposed -

That the time allotted for the consideration of the remainder of the Estimates, the Resolutions, and the stages of the Appropriation Bill, be as follows: -

Mr CALWELL:
Melbourne

.- On behalf of the Opposition, I protest vigorously and vehemently against this outrageous attempt to curtail discussion of the Estimates. It is still a long time until Christmas, and there should be plenty of opportunity to discuss proposals for the appropriation of £1,014,000,000, which is the estimated expenditure for the present financial year. The Government proposes that honorable members should have only fourteen and a half hours in which to discuss the expenditure of this huge amount. It proposes to dispose of public money at the rate of about £70,000,000 an hour, or more than £1,000,000 a minute, and yet members of the Government call themselves democrats.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member must confine his remarks to the length of time which it is proposed to allot, and whether or not that time is adequate.

Mr CALWELL:

– Would it be in order, Mr. Speaker, for me to entertain you with a play-back of speeches made by some Government supporters and Ministers when they were in Opposition?

Mr SPEAKER:

– I suggest that the honorable member discuss the allotment of time.

Mr CALWELL:

– It was my intention to refer to what had been done in other Parliaments. In 1948, the Chifley Government allowed nineteen hours for the discussion of the Estimates, and even then the allotment of time was made only after a free discussion of three hours had been allowed on the proposed vote for the Prime Minister’s Department. The budget that year provided for an expenditure of £526,000,000, and the Parliament consisted of only two-thirds as many members as it does now. Because the Parliament is now larger, more time should be allowed in which to discuss the Estimates. In 1948, the honorable member for Wentworth (Mr. Eric J. Harrison) objected to the proposed restriction of debate, and he used these words, which I endorse -

The time schedule that has been circulated is an indication of the farce to which the business of the Parliament is been reduced by the Government.

The present Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) protested when the Chifley Government allotted a much greater period of time for the consideration of the departmental estimates than is now contemplated. We have 36 departments and a number of ancillary instrumentalities whose needs must all be considered. The work of each department should be discussed intelligently and properly in order to protect the interests of the taxpayers. But this Government considers that fourteen and a quarter hours will be sufficient for that purpose ! Twenty-eight hours, or even a month, which was approximately the period devoted to the general budget debate, would not be too much time for the consideration of the proposed expenditure of such a vast sum of money as is involved in the Estimates. Honorable members have a duty to their electors. We were told, when the

Chifley Government was in power, that large sums of money should not be appropriated by the Parliament without the most exhaustive discussion, especially when large tax levies were involved. The expenditure needs of this Government are far larger than were those of the Chifley Government - almost twice as large in fact. The largest amount that the Parliament ever appropriated under the Chifley Government in the post-war period was £526,000,000. We are now being asked to appropriate £1,014,500,000, a super record amount. And all this has to he dealt with in fourteen and a quarter hours ! The Government, by its action, is showing its complete contempt for democracy. There is very little to distinguish it from Hitler’s show.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr HOLT:
Minister for Labour and National Service and Minister for Immigration · Higgins · LP

-Order! Never mind about the public outside.

Mr ANTHONY:

– I think honorable members do mind about the public because all this discussion is designed to mislead the public into believing that the Opposition has not had adequate opportunity to state its case. The truth is that the budget was introduced on the second day of October and this is the sixth day of November and honorable members still have not disposed of it. Some of them continue to insist that they want to go on talking. Whether the Parliament has to discuss the expenditure of £100,000,000 or £1,000,000,000 is immaterial. The budget has to be debated by the Parliament and if honorable members insist on division after division when they know that that is a timeconsuming procedure, they can blame only themselves if time runs out before other matters which they want to discuss can be brought before them. There has been ample time for every honorable member on both sides of the committee to discuss the budget. The Government did not apply the guillotine to the budget debate and honorable members could have wandered from Peru to Mexico in their speeches. This action of the Opposition is a stunt and it will convince nobody.

Mr POLLARD:
Lalor

.- In peace and war, it was the policy of the Chifley and Curtin Governments to keep the Parliament in session almost constantly. I remind honorable members that during the major portion of that period the Parliament comprised only 75 members. Now when there are 123 members, the Government proposes to limit severely the time available to honorable members although when it went to the country in 1949 and again in 1951 its supporters were very voluble in respect to the application by the Chifley Government of the gag and the “ guillotine “ although such actions were limited. No one will deny that the record of the Parliament that was in session during that difficult and dangerous war-time period is unparalleled in the history of federation. This Government, with ample time available, proposes to force the Parliament into recess and thus deprive members of their democratic rights. The Postmaster-General (Mr. Anthony) has stated that honorable members have had ample time to deal with the budget. Honorable members have had half an hour each and in that time no one could steer what the Minister referred to as a course from Peru to Mexico, as he suggested could be done. Consequently honorable members have been limited to expressing their views on broad problems. The Estimates contain details of the proposed expenditure of the numerous Commonwealth public departments. Honorable members can be critical, constructive or destructive in dealing with those details, but individual members are specialists in some items and they should be afforded a much more ample opportunity to discuss them.

As a former member of a State Parliament and a member of this Parliament I know that it has been the policy of Labour governments always to allow honorable members to exercise their democratic rights even if the Parliament had to sit all night and continuously until Christmas eve. This

Government seeks to throttle the representatives of the people in respect to items on which they wish to speak. Immigration is a subject in which every member is interested from some point of view. What hope have the 123 members of this Parliament to deal adequately with that one item alone in the ten minutes that they will be allowed? In the circumstances, this is an exhibition of totalitarianism in its worst form and a deprivation of members of their democratic rights, and I object strongly to the proposal to limit so severely the time for the discussion of the Estimates.

Mr.TURNBULL (Mallee) [8.26].-I have listened–

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! I heard somebody refer to the “ Mallee hen “. I demand that those words be withdrawn. I strongly object to the calling of names across the chamber.

Mr Bryson:

-I withdraw.

Debate interrupted under Standing Order 92.

Question put -

That the motion(vide page 1560), be agreed to.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker -Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 57

NOES: 43

Majority…… 14

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

In Committee of Supply: Consideration resumed from the 30th October (vide page 1285).

Parliament

Proposed vote, £593,000.

Prime Minister’s Department

Proposed vote, £1,917,000.

Departmentofexternalaffairs

Proposed vote, £1,568,000.

Department of the Treasury.

Proposed vote, £6,311,000. (Ordered to be considered together.)

Mr ALLAN FRASER:
Monaro · EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I take this opportunity to offer some views upon Mansard. Hansard costs the nation many thousands of pounds a year, employs a large staff, including some of the finest reporters in the Commonwealth, and enshrines the gems of oratory of the wittiest, wisest, and most selfless gathering of people in Australia. Yet it is not sufficiently widely read. This afternoon, I was looking at the Hansard report of the first Commonwealth Parliament. During the last 50 years, there has been no change whatever in the display, make-up or method of producing that journal, but during that time the method of presentation of reading matter generally, and of newspapers in particular, has been revolutionized. If we wish large numbers of people to read Hansard, we should modernize the publication and produce it in a new style, with a bright and interesting make-up that would attract the modern reader. The newspapers of 50 years ago were very dull; they contained many thousands of words and were read by only a small section of the community. To-day, people have become accustomed to shorter, crisper and brighter reports. They can no longer be expected to read the very long and detailed reports that are contained in Ilansard. I know there are some people who are Hansard enthusiasts and who never miss reading one word of any speech. But they are few and far between. I am not astonished at that, because Hansard is a very difficult publication to read. When one receives it, wrapped as it comes through the mail and tries to open it, it is most discouraging.

I suggest that attention be given to the form that Hansard takes. If it is considered necessary to continue the present verbatim Hansard, consideration might be given to the publication at the same time of a summarized version. I say “ If it is considered necessary to continue the present verbatim Hansard “, because the verbatim record might be sufficiently well kept if we employed for that purpose a tape recorder or a wire recorder. If we employed the talents of our Hansard staff to produce a summarized report and gave them full authority to edit and sub-edit speeches, busy people, people interested in politics and people generally in the country and city areas would have an opportunity, in a reasonable time each week, to keep abreast of what is happening in the National Parliament. I believe it to be very important that that should be done.

It is true that at the turn of the century, when the existing form of Hansard was modern in comparison with the form of the newspapers of that day, the press reported the proceedings of Parliament very fully. Some newspapers published daily six, seven or eight columns of straight parliamentary reports. But, as I have said, the newspapers of that day were read by only a small proportion of the total population. To-day, everybody reads a newspaper, but the form of newspapers has so changed that they no longer attempt to present to the people a clear and proportioned picture of happenings in the Parliament or of the serious and important happenings in the nation generally. It would be quite true to say that the proceedings of Parliament are no longer adequately reported in the press of this country, and that the press as a whole - I except from this statement only one or two newspapers - chooses to report only the titbits of parliamentary happenings, the sensational events, the scenes and the amusing moments, and makes no attempt, to give from day to day a serious and proportioned report of bills discussed and speeches made.

If it is considered necessary to continue the present form of Hansard, I suggest for consideration that there be published also a summarized Ilansard, and that an impartial team of Ilansard reporters be authorized to edit and sub-edit speeches in such a manner as still to present to the people as a whole a clear picture of the proceedings of the Parliament from day to day. Probably every member of the Parliament would feel that his speech had been summarized too much.

Mr Thompson:

– Very likely. I think the honorable member is on a wild track. He is stating only his opinion.

Mr ALLAN FRASER:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I admit that the reporters would have an extraordinarily difficult task in summarizing the speeches of the honorable member for Port Adelaide (Mr. Thompson). They are so full of solid sense and wisdom that it would be difficult to omit a word from them. Nevertheless, I believe the proposal that I have advanced is worthy of consideration.

Mr BLAND:
Warringah

– I am glad to see the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) in the chamber to-night, recovered from his illness to some degree. I suggest to the right honorable gentleman that it would be wise, in reorganizing his department on a functional basis, to adopt the method that he adopted in connexion with other departments shortly after he became Prime Minister. The Prime Minister’s Department has eight or nine branches. I think that the only two that ought to be under the control of the department are the Audit Office and the Public Service Board, because the integrity of public finance is one of the main cares of a Prime Minister and the integrity of the Public Service is also a matter that concerns him very much.

I think that a case could be made out for placing the officers employed in the other branches under the control of other departments. I refer mainly to the Office of Education, but also, and only in passing, to the Commonwealth Grants Commission, which should be under the control of the Department of the Treasury. The Office of Education is one of the legacies which the Prime Minister inherited from a previous government. In my opinion there is no room for a Commonwealth Office of Education. I should have imagined that at most we would need only a very small staff to advise on matters pertaining to education, its control and the encouragement of experiments in research into education on lines somewhat similar to those adopted in the United States of America. Here we have an illustration of a Commonwealth activity that has reached out in a manner, typical of all Commonwealth bodies over the years, for functions that are being adequately performed by the States. Here is an example of the relentless pursuit of a policy of centralization. It seems to me that education has no place in the centralized system of Canberra. If honorable members will examine page 9 of the Estimates they will find that it covers the proposed vote for the Office of Education. The details which are set out on page 12 suggest that the total proposed vote is £209,000. If, however, honorable members turn to page 81 of the Estimates they will find under Division No. 181 another proposed vote for the Office of Education of £2,215,000, which includes £1,496,000 for Commonwealth grants to universities and £709,200 for the Commonwealth scholarship scheme. University scholarships have been awarded year in and year out by the universities themselves since universities were first established in Australia. There is no point in having a Commonwealth Office of Education to decide the conditions under which scholarships awarded by the Commonwealth shall be held. The money made available for that purpose might well be paid direct to the universities or to the State governments. The universities are capable of deciding who should receive university training and the conditions under which they should receive it. The same remarks apply to most of the Commonwealth grants to the universities. This year £1,496,000 has been provided for that purpose. I do not suggest that the universities do not need that money or that the Commonwealth should not make it available.What I am concerned about is the manner in which the grants are being made available and the necessity for establishing a very large branch of the Prime Minister’s Department to administer them. I should have imagined that ample advice could have been given to the Prime Minister and the Treasurer by their existing staffs, to enable them to decide what grants should be made. Some aspects at least of the work of the Office of Education, which are under the care of the Prime Minister, are at present going through a scheme of re-organization by the Public Service Board, the principles of which might well be spread over other sections of the office. For instance, matters dealing with Unesco and SouthEast Asia might be placed under the Administration of the Department of External Affairs.

The proposed votes covering university training, which are set out on page 92 of the Estimates, total £818,000 are under the control of the Prime Minister’s Department. It is interesting to note that other proposed votes covering war service land settlement, and the technical and rural training schemes for ex-servicemen are under the control of other departments. Thus, a veritable medley of departments deal with various aspects of the rehabilitation of ex-servicemen. These, in my opinion, should all be dealt with by the Repatriation Department. I have no desire to belittle the importance of the education programme. In making these comments my sole desire is to stress the need for relieving the Prime Minister of many functions about which he should not have to worry. Next year, when we are considering the redistribution of governmental powers and functions, we should divest the Commonwealth of many functions that it has usurped from the States and restore them to the States which can carry them out more effectively and more economically.

Mr HAYLEN:
Parkes

.- I support the remarks made by the honorable member for Eden-Monaro (Mr. Allan Eraser) concerning Hansard. I propose to touch briefly upon certain points that I am sure the honorable member would have dealt with if he had been given more time to devote to the subject. From the utilitarian aspect we realize the advantage of the present format of that publication, but there is no reason why its make-up, if not its content, should not be improved. The Government might well consider the issue of separate editions containing the debates of each House of the Parliament. If that course were followed it would be more easy for members of the Parliament to analyse the speeches of the past. The only suggestion I offer for the improvement of the make-up of Hansard is that the record of speeches should contain more paragraphs. At one stage of his speech an honorable member may fulminate against the Government and then drop down to a lower key. At present there is no break in the continuity of the record by the commencement of a new paragraph to denote the change to a lower key. That, however, is but a trifling fault which might easily be rectified.

I propose now to deal with the Office of Education, to which reference was made by the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Bland). I do not share the honorable member’s sorrow - his words were too softly spoken to be regarded as anger - at the fact that the Commonwealth has projected itself into the field of education. Within their limited constitutional powers both the previous Government and the present Government have done a remarkably good job in that field. What I regret- is the fact that the proposed votes for education are being reduced and that some splendid features of the Commonwealth’s participation in education are being eliminated. Having regard to the importance of Unesco as a special agency of the United Nations for releasing the tension of war, giving to the people opportunities for study and bringing to a sensible outcome the battle against illiteracy, it is pleasing to note that the Government has widely increased the amount of the grant to that body. I hope that the Government will increase it still further. That organization, together with the Food and Agriculture Organization and other highly successful agencies of the United Nations, should be encouraged. I observe that on the local scene the grant for the Office of Education has been substantially reduced. Some of the activities of that instrumentality might well have been left undisturbed. I refer, for example, to the decision to abandon the issue of the Current Affairs Bulletin and the graphs that were issued with that publication. The fact that during the regime of the Chifley Government some spirited arguments took place in this chamber on whether the officers who prepared the graphs were following a particular political line, does not detract from their value as a great factor in assisting the progress of adult education. That was particularly so in country centres, where people had formed small community groups that studied various subjects. Some of the Current Affairs Bulletins were extremely instructive documents of a very high standard and were of great assistance to such “-roups. Some of the bulletins dealt with such subjects as soil erosion, immigration, the problem of China, wheat, wool and the great primary industries. Such bulletins should be available to people in this country at a fairly reasonable cost. They were splendidly produced, well coloured and attractive and were of great benefit to people who were doing extra-curricular work, particularly in adult education groups. The honorable member for Warringah will agree with me that they were extremely useful educational booklets. I shall be sorry if it has been found necessary to curtail this particular activity. Although an activity may be carried out in the right spirit it may nevertheless, and unfortunately, become a subject of criticism. In years past some of those bulletins were considered to evidence a bias towards communism. That was sheer nonsense. The subjects with which they dealt were factually and splendidly presented, and were a great credit to the Office of Education.

I am proud of the work of the Office of Education. It should not have to work on a pinch-penny budget, and I hope that the Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) - it is a faint hope, of course - will reconsider this matter to see whether, by more liberality, he can nourish the educational side of our federal activities.

Mr Menzies:

– If I may interrupt the honorable member, I may perhaps save time by saying that it is not to be assumed that the Current Affairs Bulletin will definitely go out of production.

Mr HAYLEN:

– I apologize if I have made a mistake, but I gained the impression from at least three newspapers that it was to go out of production. If that is not to be the case I shall not continue my remarks on it.

Mr Menzies:

– I have been in communication with the Government of New South Wales and the University of Sydney to see whether we can make some alternative arrangements for the publication of the bulletin, and I am hopeful that some arrangement may be arrived at.

Mr DRUMMOND:
New England

– Every one who has listened to the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Bland) will admit that he has made a very useful and valuable contribution to the debate. I shall confine my remarks to his reference to the Commonwealth Office of Education and the part that it has played in assisting the educational systems of the States so that something approaching a general high standard of education can operate throughout the Commonwealth. At the same time, I consider that there is a dangerous tendency, which should not be encouraged, towards centralization of education in Australia. I can conceive of nothing worse that could befall this country than a completely regimented system of education. I am not worrying about “ isms “ at the present moment. I am speaking about education as such. Just as life varies from time to time, so must education be constantly moving and changing to meet the needs of a great democracy according to the different conceptions and requirements of different times. In certain educational circles there is now a tendency to try to force the Commonwealth towards complete regimentation of education. I have the greatest possible admiration for the State education systems that have been developed in this country, but no worse evil could befall Australia than that State schools should become our one and only source of education. It would be still worse to force upon the Commonwealth a nation-wide standardized system of education. It was my good fortune to investigate education in the United States of America in 1936, and I subsequently made a report on the matter. I found that the American Government had a commissioner of education and 100 experts at Washington, at a time when America’s population was about 130,000,000 people. It was their responsibility to distribute the grants that were provided by the federal authorities for the establishment of standards which State and local government bodies in control of education could follow.

I take up the theme of the honorable member for Warringah that there has been a tendency to let the Office of Education grow at the expense of the States. The point that requires to be taken very seriously is that the growth of federal educational activities should perhaps be reviewed generally and not only in relation to this particular office, for the purpose of discovering whether we can return to the States work that they are exceptionally fitted to carry out. At the same time there is nobody who wishes less than I do for the disappearance of the Office of Education the continued existence of which is an absolute essential for the correlation of all the educational activities in Australia, particularly in relation to universities, to ensure that the smaller States shall have standards that approximate at least to the standards of the larger States. It is also essential that, at the seat of government of this Commonwealth, we should have a number of advisers who, as a result of their personal knowledge of educational problems, would be capable of advising the education authorities of the States and of assisting in the development of education. I speak with feeling on this matter because I am a former New South Wales Minister of Education. In my dealings with the Commonwealth in the years before the last war I found that the greatest problem confronting us in the achievement of harmony in our various educational systems was a lack of unity both in the ministerial and administrative circles of the Commonwealth about the educational problems that confront the Commonwealth as a whole. Whilst I support the general contentions of the honorable member for Warringah [ should greatly regret to see any serious diminution of the leadership that can be given by the Commonwealth in the sphere of education. I should be loth to see the disappearance of the experienced advice and leadership that can be given to the States by men who understand education and its problems and who know what action should be taken to remove existing inequalities in relation to educational facilities in the Commonwealth.

Mr TOM BURKE:
Perth

.- In general I support the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Bland) in his view that some of the items that appear in the Estimates under the Prime Minister’s Department should not be under the Prime Minister’s administration. My reason for holding that opinion is that, as is generally admitted here, leading members of the Government are sadly overworked. I cannot support the honorable member’s views on the Commonwealth Office of Education, because I consider that they are retrogressive in effect. The Commonwealth Office of Education is the natural bridge by means of which we can span the gap between the weight of the educational responsibilities that lie on the States on the one side, and the Commonwealth’s control of the major purse-strings of the nation on the other side. I very much regret that the only item in the proposed vote for the Prime Minister’s Department that has been subject to reduction is that of the Office of Education. That seems to me to be a very unfortunate state of affairs. The Commonwealth Office of Education has done a very good job. I am glad to know that publication of the Current Affairs Bulletin may be continued. I understand that its circulation reached about 50,000, although I am not certain of the figure, which I received from the Department of Education in Western Australia. It has been a most important publication for the members of the public who have been making use of it, and I hope that the Government will ensure its continued publication.

The details of the Estimates for the Prime Minister’s Department show the strange circumstance that although the number of persons employed at the Commonwealth Office of Education has risen to 130 this year compared with 126 last year the estimated expenditure on salaries is considerably below actual expenditure last year. In 1950-51, £117,982 was expended under this heading, but the estimate for the current year is only £105,000, although apparently the staff of the office has been increased by at least four employees. I should like to have an explanation of this reduction. Even the ordinary incidental expenses of the office are, apparently, being sadly reduced. For instance, the estimate for “ postage, telegrams and telephone services “ is £4,700, compared with an actual expenditure of £10,212 last year. It is unfortunate that the work of what is left of this valuable department is to be crippled by this reduction of ordinary expenditure. While it is true that this year’s estimate of £8,S00 under the heading “United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization - Expenses “ is considerably more than the actual expenditure last year, it is £2,600 less than the estimate for 1950-51. Estimated expenditure on “ General educational and cultural activities “ is £5,000, compared with last year’s estimate of £13,000, and actual expenditure of £5,833. Here again, higher salaries and increased administrative costs surely should warrant a substantially greater vote for this important work. Expenditure on “Research projects “ is being reduced to considerably less than last year’s estimate, and the estimate for “ teaching aids “’ is £3,000 compared with £4,400 in 1950-51. It seems to me that the Government is moving in quite the wrong direction. When the Office of Education was established most honorable members, I am sure, felt that a move would be made to place education in this country on a sounder basis than it had been up to that time. Most people hoped for a decentralized administration, and for more liberal Commonwealth financial assistance to the States. It is regrettable that the Government is scaling down the activities of this organization which is engaged on most important work.

Mr. WENTWORTH (Mackellar) [9.2 j. - I notice with pleasure that, included in the vote for the Department of External Affairs, is the sum of £149,000 for Antarctic exploration. I have also noted with pleasure the proposal that Captain P. G. Taylor, one of our most distinguished airmen, should make a trip to the Antarctic in a flying-boat. We hold a good but not indefeasible title to the major portion of the Antarctic continent. It is important that we should improve that title and that, as soon as possible, we should undertake permanent occupation of our Antarctic territory. We may be asked, “ Is not the whole of the Antarctic quite valueless?” It may be, but it is only 300 years or so since the Dutch; who knew Australia, wrote it off as entirely valueless ; it is only 100 years since Russia sold for a nominal sum its rights in Alaska to the United States of America, and since the statesmen who made the purchase were criticized for having added that arctic “ icebox “ to their country. It is only a little more than 50 years since there was a tendency to write off New Guinea as being entirely without value. Only through the energetic action of an Australian was even a portion of that island preserved for us. Therefore I do not think that we should adopt the view that the Antarctic is necessarily valueless. What are its potential values? At present they are mainly speculative, but they are certainly worth investigating. Whalers are already taking many millions of pounds out of the Antarctic Ocean. That enterprise, in which Australia has no share, it is not merely speculative. Its value has been proved beyond doubt, although it may be argued that occupation of the Antarctic continent would not help us much in that connexion. I point out to the committee what the whales have long known that the seas around Antarctica are the richest source of animal life in the entire globe. It is probable that those seas are the greatest sources of animal protein in the world. Their wealth cannot be exploited at present, but it is worth investigation. The existence of animal life in those waters is due to convection currents which bring up sediment from the floor of the Antarctic ocean and to the long hours of summer sunlight in those regions.

Occupation of a permanent station in Antarctica would, I believe, help longrange weather forecasting materially. It is probable that our climate is determined by the position of the line where the warm waters of the northern oceans go over the top of the colder waters of the Antarctic Ocean. The position of that distinct line of demarcation sometimes changes by as much as 300 or 400 miles. Those shifts may, in some measure, determine the upward and downward movement of the rain systems on the Australian continent. It is indisputable also that although geological exploration of this ice-capped continent would be difficult, it contains mineral deposits worthy of investigation. Perhaps, too, with the development of our atomic research, we shall need experimental or production areas, remote from population centres, where the various processes can be carried out without undue danger of radiological contamination. For that purpose, the Antarctic continent may well be ideal. There are other points too. The use of Antarctic territory for airline bases may be a remote possibility because of the geography of the southern hemisphere. The area may have some attraction for tourists although, because of the severe winds, that does not seem likely. However, quite apart from those things, there are various avenues of purely scientific research that may be followed. Such research, in addition to being of considerable value in itself, has a secondary value in that it can be of great assistance in meteorological and other observations to which I have referred. There is also a need for a ring of seismic stations all over the world in order that we may understand the movements of the earth’s crust. At present the Antarctic continent is the main gap in that ring. The study of cosmic rays and solar discharges is obviously something that should be pursued near to the magnetic poles where there are opportunities not elsewhere available to observe such pheno mena. The phenomena of terrestial mao.netism are in some aspects best studied close to the magnetic poles. Geology I have mentioned. In connexion with geodesy, the determination of the exact figure of the earth will be incomplete until we have better observations on tho Antarctic continent. Lastly, the study of glaciation and the advance and recession of the ice over the earth - of longrange importance, but nevertheless it is important - requires ice-cap observations on the Antarctic continent to supplement observations in other parts of the world. Therefore, both for reasons of economic value, which are speculative but cannot be dismissed out of hand, and for reasons of scientific value, which are not speculative and which cannot be dismissed at all, the Government should be actively engaged in setting up permanent stations in the Antarctic.

There are also military considerations which may be real or unreal but which are worth considering. The establishment of a proper, permanent station will require some 750 tons of stores with perhaps 200 tons a year to maintain the station. I think it is possible to take these in by air but it may be that to use an airlift of the necessary magnitude, except as a military exercise, would be beyond economic possibilities. Therefore, the Government should consider using a vessel to penetrate the ice pack and land the initial equipment and stores, and then the station could be serviced and the personnel changed by air. As honorable members are probably aware, the ice pack around the Antarctic usually moves out during the summer leaving a lane of clear water between the ice pack outside and the ice barrier inside, an area where a sea-plane could readily land. It is with much pleasure that I support the proposal to send Captain Taylor to the Antarctic because I believe that not only will he find a way of establishing a permanent base but also that he will find a way of servicing it once it has been established. Although I believe that the Government should press on with the acquisition of at least one vessel capable of penetrating the ice pack in the summer, I think it is fantastic to consider the building of such a vessel in Australia. That is a specialized job. It can be done overseas by shipyards which are contemplating building a number of these vessels for operation in the northern hemisphere including the area to the north of Siberia. The building of such a vessel in Australia might involve an unwarranted diversion of resources and would certainly cause delay. But American or Canadian shipyards could build such a vessel as part of the mass production programme that they have already envisaged. Therefore, I consider that the Government should abandon any proposal to build an Antarctic vessel in Australia and with the least possible delay, obtain an overseas ship.

Mr POLLARD:
Lalor

.- I regret to see that of all the items published in the Estimates under the heading of the Prime Minister’s Department the only one that it is proposed should suffer a reduction in expenditure is the Office of Education. This is a strange state of affairs. This is a growing nation and there is a need for a coordination and correlation of State educational facilities. There is a need for a compilation of information to be made available to other peoples of the world who are interested in educational research. One can only conclude that the proposed cut in expenditure must be made at the expense of the welfare of the great bulk of the people of Australia - not only the younger generation but the adults to whom the Office of Education has rendered a very valuable service. Its publications and its works generally are of a very high standard. State educational authorities, State school teachers, registered school teachers, technical teachers and secondary school teachers have expressed a very high appreciation of the work of this authority. I have never met an officer in any field of State education who has shown any resentment at the scope of the work of the Office of Education.

I can quite understand the attitude of the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Bland). He belongs to an older generation and is exceedingly jealous of State educational functions. While the

Constitution continues to permit a division of authority in respect of various matters between the States and the Commonwealth, I consider that there should be no actual duplication of activities, but that some body should knit up the loose ends and correlate the information that may be available from State authorities in regard to such matters as education, agriculture and re-afforestation. I understand that the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) himself has been an educationalist and it is regrettable that he, through his Treasurer, should be responsible for a reduction of no less than £66,000 in the vote for the Office of Education. Last year £117, 9S2 was expended on salaries and allowances for permanent officers, but this year the vote is only £105,000. It would appear that there has been a diminution in the permanent staff or in the general expenses of the permanent staff.

It is also proposed that expenditure on temporary and casual employees shall be reduced from £106,31 S to £64,.000. The dismissal of the temporary and casual staff of the Office of Education can result only in the effectiveness of the permanent staff being seriously affected. I regret that this is the case. I understand that some of the steps taken, from sheer necessity, by the Office of Education in order to save money, have been of a very questionable character. I believe that certain casual employees were told that they had been dismissed in accordance with the policy of the Commonwealth Government but that if they applied for re-engagement they would be re-employed at a reduced salary. I regard that as a parsimonious, mean and contemptible state of affairs. Tha Treasurer (Sir Arthur Fadden) may laugh, but if he were told that, as part and parcel of the attempt of the Government to cure inflation, he would be sacked and re-engaged at half his salary he would be very cross. That is what the Government has clone to the weaker section of the community. If the right honorable gentleman wants particulars of what is happening I shall provide them. Doe3 the Prime Minister challenge these statements?

Mr Menzies:

– Yes.

Mr POLLARD:

– Certain of the staff of the Office of Education were told that they would be dismissed but that they could apply for re-employment on the following day.

Mr Menzies:

– Will the honorable member let me have the particulars?

Mr POLLARD:

– I shall give the Prime Minister the particulars of these cases as soon as I resume my seat. Will the right honorable gentleman apologize if I am proved to be right?

Mr Menzies:

– I shall.

Mr POLLARD:

– I am glad that the Prime Minister has accepted the challenge. It is regrettable that this reduction has taken place in respect of such an important matter as education. I hope, even at this late hour, that something will be done to continue the full scope of the work of this very valuable Commonwealth instrumentality.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

.- I shall take only enough time to correct a few errors of the honorable member for Lalor (Mr. Pollard). The debate about the Office of Education was begun by the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Bland) saying that the proposed vote for this year ought to be less; but now it looks as if it ought to be more. The honorable member for Lalor, walking in somewhat unaccustomed paths, has said that if there is one thing that matters in this country it is that the Office of Education should be built up, and built up, and built upf Because the proposed vote is less than was the expenditure in. 1950-51, he is now asking the people of Australia to believe that this Government has no interest in education, that it is the enemy of the improvement of public instruction. The answer to that contention is very simple indeed. The proposed vote is less than was expenditure during the previous financial years because the Government believes that certain activities ought no longer to overlap. The number of employees of the Office of Education referred to in the Estimates is a little extravagant; it is the number that were actually employed when the Estimates were prepared.

Although the Office of Education will have fewer employees, and we will expend less money on it, this Government is undertaking the largest financial responsibility for scholarships in the history of Australia. The whole scholarship system, for which the Commonwealth will pay, is to be administered by the States, for the very good reason that the State education authorities and the State universities have had a vast experience of conducting examinations and dealing with the award of scholarships. We came to the conclusion that the Commonwealth ought not to be doing what the States could do. Of course, if some honorable members opposite want us to duplicate what the. States arc doing, they should say so. If that is their idea of efficient administration, let them say so. But, as I have previously indicated to the committee, we decided that where ever there were overlapping functions we would endeavour to secure some removal of the overlapping.

The whole burden of what the honorable member for Lalor had to say was that we were cutting down on the Commonwealth facilities for education. In point of fact, this Government is pro-

Tiding the greatest sum of money that has ever been provided for education in the history of the Commonwealth. It is doing that because it believes in education ; it does not believe just in talking about it, but in doing things about it. Under Division No. 181 - Commonwealth grants to universities - this Government is providing, for the first time in the history of Australia, for a Commonwealth grant to the State universities. The proposed vote for that purpose is £1,496,000. Yet honorable members opposite are arguing about the Government cutting the overlapping in scholarship administration by varying the employment of some of the employees of the Office of Education. They say nothing about the fact that this Government - the first government in the history of Australia to do it - intends, in this financial year, to grant almost £1,500,000 to the universities of the States. They say nothing whatever about the fact that, in addition, the Government intends, during this financial year, to provide £709,200 to implement the Commonwealth scholarship scheme. Until a few years ago the Commonwealth did not make any contribution to education.

Opposition members ‘interjecting,

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order !

Mr MENZIES:

– The more they talk the more trouble they are in. Of course it was necessary, but it does not follow that a Parliament which was told that the proposal would cost £300,000 would have agreed to it if the fact had been disclosed that the ultimate cost would be about £2,000,000. That is something that honorable members opposite should rumble in their minds in the still watches of the night. All I need to say is that for buildings alone the Autralian National University has been assisted by this Government to the tune of £9S4,000. That is a little less than £1,000,000 in one year. In spite of nearly £1,500,000 in direct grants of an entirely new kind to be made to the State universities, more than £700,000 to be expended on Commonwealth scholarships, nearly £1,000,000 to be expended on the National University buildings, and £450,000 to be expended for the maintenance of the National University, we are now being told on the strength of a small administrative re-organization in the Office of Education that we are doing our educational job on the cheap.

Mr Costa:

– Time is up.

Mr MENZIES:

– The honorable member is quite right. Time is up. It is quite unnecessary to say another word.

Mr KEON:
Yarra

Mr KEON:

– I suggest that the Prime Minister should take steps to ensure that the financial policy of this Government will be made the subject of a full report to the Parliament, so that it may be adequately debated. Somehow or other, the rural interests of Australia are usually forgotten when contracts are made with the United Kingdom. Australia is the country which is expected to make all of the sacrifices. Instead of the nebulous, unofficial discussions which take place concerning our currency and our attachment to the sterling bloc, I suggest that there should be a properly constituted body to which formal delegations might be sent. Those delegations should be backed by the decisions of the Australian Parliament, reached after full debate, concerning the financial policy .which the Government desires to pursue. I shall listen intently during the next few months to the members of the Australian Country party as they discuss the long-term contracts with the United Kingdom and the prices that Australian primary producers are to receive for their meat, butter and other products. I hope to have an opportunity to discuss that matter when the proposed vote for the Department of Commerce and Agriculture is being considered.

I wish to make it clear that I consider that Australian interests should be fully and adequately represented at international conferences, whether their purpose is to deal with the allocation of raw materials, financial and currency problems, or any other matter. I trust that this Government will not permit the country’s interests to be neglected when such vital problems ai-e being discussed overseas.

Mr RYAN:
Flinders

.- I do not support the arguments of the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Keon), who spoke for about a quarter of an hour-

Mr Keon:

– I had only ten minutes !

Mr RYAN:

– It seemed like a quarter of an hoar. The honorable member had no facts upon which to base his remarks. He denied any wish to cut the painter with the United Kingdom, although hp knows that some members of his party would be only too glad to do so. I do not think that there is the slightest ground for introducing that subject.

– No interest would be paid to investors, but their capital would be conserved. That form of loan has already been , issued in Canada and in other countries and it has proved successful in attracting investments because it safeguards the capital of investors.

– Order ! The honorable member will resume his seat.

Motion (by Mr. Ward) put -

That the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) be further heard.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 43

NOES: 0

N oes .. . . . . 54

Majority . . . . . 11

In division :

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Adermann).Order! The time allotted for the consideration of the proposed votes for the Parliament, the Prime Minister’s Department, the Department of External Affairs, and the Department of the Treasury has expired.

Proposed votes agreed to.

Proposed vote, £976,000.

Proposed vote, £2,724,000.

Proposed vote, £2,064,000.

Proposed vote, £9,564,000.

Proposed vote, £2,760,000.

Proposed vote, £864,000. (Ordered to be considered together.)

Mr TOM BURKE:
Perth

.- The proposed vote for the Department of Trade and Customs includes an amount of £20,000 for the Prices Branch. We have heard a great deal in recent times about rising prices, prices control, and inflation, and this Government has invariably contended that prices control merely records increases of prices. Ministers have no faith in prices control, and airily dismiss as party political propaganda all arguments that are advanced in favour of it. Yet the Government has provided an amount of £20,000 for the Prices Branch during the current financial year, and, in addition, will make available £819,000 to the States for the purposes of prices control. In such a situation, the Government calmly washes its hands of its respon sibilities and repeats ad nauseam, “ We do not believe in prices control, which is merely an instrument for recording variations of prices that have already taken place “.

– State representatives announced only a few days ago that they would be prepared to refer the necessary power to the Commonwealth. Not long ago, a Gallup poll indicated that SO per cent, of the people of Australia were in favour of Commonwealth control of prices. Therefore, the Government no longer has an excuse for failing to act.

Mr PETERS:
Burke

.- Imports are flowing into Australia at an alarming and ever-increasing rate, and our adverse trade balance overseas is becoming greater and greater. We are bringing to Australia a large number of people from other countries. We are also bringing here from overseas large quantities of goods that could be very well manufactured here. Some people solittle understand the problem of inflation that they believe that the cure for inflation and high prices is to allow goods from overseas to enter Australia almost unimpeded. It is against the interest? of Australian manufacturers and of their employees to allow our adverse trade balance to continue to grow. One reason for the present situation is that the Tariff Board and the Department of Trade and Customs do not act promptly enough to protect Australian industry. In my electorate, there is a factory which manufactures furniture drapings, . and which used to employ about 100 persons under excellent conditions. Recently, because of the competition of imported fabrics from Italy, Belgium and Japan, the firm lias had to discharge about half the number of its employees. Even if it were prepared to dispense with profit altogether, it would still not be able to compete successfully against the overseas manufacturers.

T do not say that the tariff should be used to protect exploiters, but it should be used to protect legitimate Australian industries against competition from countries where employees work more hours a day for less pay than. do our Australian workers. Because some distributing agencies in Australia have been making immense profit, ranging from 50 per cent, to 100 per cent., some people believe that goods should be admitted freely from overseas in order to keep down prices. If that were permitted, many Australian industries, both new and old, would be destroyed, and it would not be an easy matter to re-establish them in a time of national emergency. Because our population is increasing so rapidly, it is important that we should manufacture in Australia as large a proportion as possible of the goods we need. Australia should be something more than merely a primary producing country. Primary production cannot support a large population. Therefore, it is essential that we foster our secondary industries, and protect them against unfair competition from overseas. Whilst I favour adequate tariff protection, I believe that we should have in conjunction with it a system of prices control in order to protect the consumers from exploitation. The textile firm to which I previously referred applied to the Tariff Board for increased protection, and the board, after hearing evidence, reserved its decision. No decision has yet been announced, and in the meantime overseas competition has become so severe that the firm has had to dismiss about half its staff. If the board is not satisfied with the way in which the firm is conducting its business, it should say so. It should not hold up its repor.t indefinitely. In my opinion, the industry should be given increased protection. It is urgently necessary that our Australian industries shall be protected from rapidly growing and unfair competition from other countries.

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Minister member for Burke (Mr. Peters · “Cowper · CP

should remember that it was a Labour government that made Australia a member of the International Trade Organization and ratified the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, which is pro”1” ting this Government from increasing its tariff charges in order to protect Australian industries. However, if he will state the case on behalf of the industry that he has mentioned, to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator O’sullivan), I am sure that he will be granted a very sympathetic hearing.

Mr WARD:

– This Government could withdraw from the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade if it wanted to do so.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– That is not so. The honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) did not vote on the bill to authorize the ratification of the agreement. He ran away from the issue when it was raised by the Labour Government, and he does not know very much about it now.

– Yes. Honorable members opposite persisted in raising points of order when I was making a comprehensive statement on the subject. However, they were dealt with at the general election when the people clearly demonstrated their approval of this Government’s policy. About 600,000 pensioners and their dependants benefit from the scheme under which they can obtain free medical attention and free medicine and it is their right to be informed, by means of the parliamentary broadcasts and newspaper reports, of the nature of this scheme. A complete statement on the subject is much more important than would be any imaginary grievance that the honorable member for Parkes (Mr. Haylen) might wish to voice on a single issue. This matter affects between 600,000 and 700,000 members of our community. The entire population, of course, is interested in free medicine. The .people are entitled to a statement on the subject.

Mr Tom Burke:

– We have been waiting for a long time to hear such a statement.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– But now, when the honorable member is hearing it, he keeps on raising points of order. Since the free medical service for pensioners began in February of this year, no less than 6S8,000 services have been provided by the doctors of Australia. An attempt has been made to convey the impression that the doctors will not operate this system. More than one service has been given to each pensioner in Australia and as there is not more than 10 per cent, of any class sick at any time, it is obvious that an enormous service has been rendered. Three-quar ters of the general practitioners of Australia have volunteered to give these concessional services to the old-age pensioners.

Since free medicine has been available in September, 128,000 prescriptions have been dispensed free. That is at the rate of 1,250,000 a year. The total number of prescriptions dispensed in Australia is roughly 9,000,000. That is to say, 700,000 pensioners and their dependants, who at present represent from one-twelth to one-thirteenth of the population, are being provided with practically one-sixth of the total number of prescriptions dispensed throughout Australia. That does not indicate a lack of desire by the medical profession, by chemists or by the pensioners themselves to avail themselves of this service. This is the appropriate time, when I am making a considered statement, to put these facts before the public of Australia.

The Government is trying to stamp out tuberculosis. The previous Government brought down a measure which I supported because I regarded it as comprehensive, but that Government went out of office before it could implement its proposals. Since this Government has been in office I have tried to get the utmost value from this measure. Not much could be done until I had brought down the tuberculosis allowance, the rate of which has been increased by £1 15s. for a man and wife in the budget for this year.

Mr Ward:

– That was decided by the Minister’s predecessor.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– It was not. If the honorable member reads the files he will learn that the Labour party offered less than half the amount the recipients are getting at the present time. The Labour party’s offer to tubercular pensioners was so miserable that I would not accept it, but insisted on making certain that the pension given and the amount that could be earned would together be well above the basic wage. This was to ensure that any person who was infectiously affected with tuberculosis should get enough money to remove from his family all economic worries and enable him to leave his work. As a result, many concealed cases who had remained a’ work offered themselves for examination.

To enable the States to treat sufferers and to provide tuberculosis hospitals apart from those related to repatriation, the Government, in eighteen months, has given towards maintenance expenditure to Queensland £60,000; to Victoria, £890,000; to Tasmania, £85,000; to South Australia, £70,000; and to “Western Australia £1S2,000. Nothing has been given to New South Wales because the State government has not received a statement of the amount that that State should receive. The total reimbursements, including capital expenditure, total approximately £2,000,000. Every request made by the States for capital expenditure for housing tuberculosis patients has been met promptly. Every request for maintenance has been met also. Only to-day I was able to save the Princess Juliana Hospital in North Sydney for the treatment of tuberculosis in association with the Royal North Shore Hospital, which I hope to see made a chest hospital with a thoracic surgery centre that will be available to the whole of Australia and not solely to New South Wales. These are the things which honorable members opposite do not want to see done. They break their hearts politically. They say, “ Do not say a word about it. Keep mum about these things. We will make insinuations in the Parliament itself, but we do not want a definite statement made “.

Honorable members have asked me repeatedly to make a statement on my visit overseas at the first opportunity and 1. shall make some reference to it now. In the United States of America and in Canada the responsible authorities have maintained a voluntary system of contri011 tions and have developed a big system of voluntary insurance such as we have in the contributions fund that was started in New South Wales and has spread throughout Australia. Over 90 per cent, of the total cost of running hospitals in the United States of America was met from income derived from patients and more than half of that amount was from insurance. On the Atlantic seaboard, over SO ‘per cent, of the income came from voluntary insurance and in Detroit, a great industrial city, 75 per cent, was derived from that source. If a system of that kind could be developed in Australia, we should not only be able to give an assurance to the hospitals that they

Sir Earle Pape. would have the revenue they needed, but also would have a great deal more money at our disposal with which to provide the extra hospital beds that are so badly required in Australia.

Mr Haylen:

– But money is not the trouble. Shortage of materials is the problem, is it not?

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– Both money and materials are scarce. Funds are required not only for immediate needs but also to carry on in the future. Some security is necessary because that will improve the status and conditions of nurses as well as the general treatment in the hospitals. Later I shall make a full statement regarding the position in America. An honorable member laughs. He does not care about the health of this country. He is thinking only of the party political advantage he may get by talking. If honorable members opposite care for the people, why did they not do something about finance while in officeand provide an allowance for sufferer? from tuberculosis?

Mr JOSHUA:
Ballarat

.- The Minister for Health (Sir Earle Page) lives under the influence of a spirit of complacency regarding the benefits which, according to him, flow from his health services. If an expenditure of £864,000 is involved, of which over £700,000 is for health services and administration expenses, honorable members have the duty of ensuring that some degree of efficiency accompany that expenditure. The Minister for Health ha? told us again and again that approximately three-quarters of the medical practitioners in this country are participating in the pensioners’ health scheme. That is a very broad statement. There are approximately 30 doctors in Ballarat, but only two of them are willing to treat pensioners under the scheme. There are doctors practising in centres such as Meredith, Clunes, Creswick and other small towns in the vicinity of Ballarat, that are particularly suitable for old people to spend their last days in, but none of them i3 participating in the scheme. Therefore, pensioners who live in those places have to make a long -journey to Ballarat to consult the two doctors there who are participating in the. scheme. I do not believe that the pensioners’ health scheme is working efficiently. It needs to be investigated thoroughly. If a huge sum of money is to be expended upon it, more is required from the Minister for Health than assurances that it is working wonderfully well.

The Minister has told us that the scheme under which life-saving drugs are provided free of charge is of great benefit to the community. Probably it is of some benefit. The Opposition would not object to the expenditure of this huge sum, or even a larger sum, upon the health scheme if it could be sure that the money would be expended for the benefit of the people. The Government parties have decried form-filling and they would have nothing to do with the pharmaceutical benefits scheme that was prepared by a previous government because, they said, it would involve much form-filling. I ask the Minister to examine the present pharmaceutical benefits scheme, not on the surface, as he has been content to do in the past, but in consultation with the pharmacists. He has told us that, under the scheme, probably more than 1,250,000 prescriptions will be dispensed each year. The task of assessing those prescriptions will fall upon the pharmacists of this country. The chemist in charge of a busy pharmacy told me some time ago that he had to employ a pharmacist at a wage of £12 12s. a week - it is probably more than that now - to assess prescriptions. In order to supply the people with free drugs under a scheme that the Minister has told us is very successful, he has to bear that expense.

There are some methods that could be adopted for the provision of drugs free of charge that would work quite well and would avoid pharmacists being involved in considerable expense. Those methods might involve some form-filling, but I remind the Minister that one cannot send a telegram without filling in a form. There is nothing wrong with form-filling. Indeed, it has been resorted to under this scheme to a considerable degree. If the Ministry of Health used more energy and imagination, the scheme would be considerably more efficient than it is now.

Sir EARLE PAGE (Cowper - Minister for Health) -10.44] .- Apparently the honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. Joshua) knows nothing about this subject. The present arrangements for the dispensing of medicines and the payment of chemists were agreed to by the chemists in consultation with the Chief Pharmacist. The arrangements are working so smoothly that within a fortnight of the end of each month chemists have in their hands cheques in payment for what they have done under the pharmaceutical benefits scheme. They regard that as a most wonderful achievement. The Australasian Guild of Pharmacists, at a meeting in Brisbane last May that it had asked me to address, laid great stress upon that achievement. The Australian pharmacists told their New Zealand colleagues that the scheme, because of its simplicity and the smoothness of its operation, was the most wonderful of its kind in the world.

With regard to pharmaceutical benefits for pensioners, the pharmacists, in conjunction with the doctors, prepared a prescribers’ list of drugs, which, together with the list of life-saving drugs that can be supplied free of charge, covers approximately 95 per cent, of the prescriptions that are dispensed. The chemists are being paid also within two or three weeks of the end of each month for the medicines and drugs they supply to pensioners. Every day 1 receive letters from chemists throughout Australia congratulating me upon the manner in which this scheme has been handled. The chemists say that it has exceeded their expectations. When the Labour party was. in office there was in operation a scheme under which medicine* were supplied free of charge to person’ who were entitled to the benefits of the repatriation legislation. Under that scheme, six or seven months elapsed before chemists were paid for prescriptions that they had dispensed. The chemists were afraid that something of that kind would happen under the present scheme, but they have been most pleasantly undeceived. I assure the honorable member for Ballarat that if a chemist can afford to pay £12 12s. a week to a pharmacist to do the work that he has described, that chemist must be doing well out of the scheme.

Question put. The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C.F. Adermann.)

AYES: 39

NOES: 54

Majority…. 15

In division:

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! The committee can deal with my ruling later, and if it considers that I have acted wrongly the honorable member for Watson can return to the chamber.

Mr. Curtin thereupon withdrew from the chamber.

Mr Tom Burke:

– I move -

That the ruling be dissented from.

The ruling to which I take objection is, that the honorable member for Watson (Mr. Curtin) was guilty of gross disorder. Acting on that assumption, the Chairman exercised the power contained in Standing Order 303 and ordered the honorable member to withdraw from the chamber. Standing Order 303 was adopted during the last Parliament. It empowers the Speaker to order the withdrawal of an honorable member summarily if and when he has been guilty-

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! The honorable member may not debate this matter.

Mr Tom Burke:

– The standing order says that a motion of dissent from a ruling of the Chair shall be put, but it does not say that it shall be put without discussion.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! Standing Order 279 reads as follows : -

If any objection is taken to a ruling of the Cliairnin.ii of Committees, such objection shall be stated at once in writing, and shall be forthwith decided by the committee; and the proceedings shall then he resumed where they were interrupted.

Mr Tom Burke:

– I take it that the words “ forthwith decided “ mean that no other business shall be conducted until that motion has been disposed of. No other interpretation can reasonably be put on their meaning. Standing Order 303 empowers Mr. Speaker or the Chairman of Committees to order the withdrawal of an honorable member for gross disorder. That is the second means that is provided by which an honorable member who has been disorderly can be dealt with. Standing Order 301 provides that an honorable member may be removed from the chamber by a vote of the House if he has been guilty of disobedience of the Chair, or for any other sufficient reason. That standing order was designed to deal with conduct which amounts to .disorder, or disobedience of the Chair in general. Standing Order 303, however, goes further and provides as follows : -

The Speaker or the Chairman shall order a Member whose conduct is grossly disorderly to withdraw immediately from the House during the remainder of that day’s sitting:

– I shall examine that matter later.

Mr Morgan:

– So that honorable members may make up their minds about how they shall vote on the question now before the Chair will you inform us, Mr. Chairman, why you ordered the honorable member for Watson to leave the chamber?

The CHAIRMAN:

– No.

Mr. Tom Burke having submitted, in writing, his objection to the ruling,

Question put -

That the ruling he dissented from.

The committee divided. (TheChairman - Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 39

NOES: 53

Majority…… 14

In division:

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

That the ruling be dissented from.

The ruling to which I object is that chairman’s ruling cannot be discussed. Under Standing Order–

Mr. Calwell having submitted, in

Question put -

That the ruling be dissented from.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 39

NOES: 52

Majority…… 13

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Progress reported.

page 1591

ADJOURNMENT

Repatriation

Motion (by Mr. Eric J. Harrison) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr FRANCIS:
Minister for the Army · Moreton · LP

– When speaking to the motion for the adjournment of the House on the 23rd Oceober, the honorable member for Kingston (Mr. Galvin) referred to certain matters that had come to his notice in relation to the Repatriation General Hospital, Springbank. As a prelude to answering the three points that he raised, it should be said that staff reductions there were in keeping with the policy of the Government to reduce the number of its employees. The Repatriation Department, in common with other departments, was informed of the number of men and women in its employment whose services were to be terminated. No reductions were made in various categories of staff concerned with actual medical treatment, such as doctors and nurses. All essential facilities for medical treatment in repatriation medical institutions have been preserved, but it has been necessary to curtail some of the desirable, though less essential, features. A certain amount of reorganization was necessary, but it is hoped that all of the amenities that were mentioned by the honorable member will be restored in due course.

The Minister for Repatriation (Senator Cooper) has informed me as follows : -

The early morning tea service has been restored in part.
Bowls of water are now supplied to each patient prior to breakfast.
Closing part of the occupational thera py section has meant that occupational therapy has been largely confined to long-stay patients, but where any patient requests to be allowed to fill in his time in occupational therapy, the existing facilities for him to do so will not be denied him.

The honorable member for Kingston will appreciate that whatever complaints were made to him were not shared by all of the patients at the hospital, because the following letter appeared in the Adelaide News of the 25th October, over the signature of five patients : -

Where did Messrs. Galvin and Cameron. M.H.R.’s, (“News”, 23.10.51) get their information that “the decline in service received by ex-servicemen patients “ at Springbank Repatriation General Hospital as a result ofthe Federal Government’s Retrenchment Policy?

To say that only two bowls are now supplied to each ward is ridiculous.

From our point of view - and after all, we are sonic of the patients of this Hospital - there has been no decline in service, nor are we lacking in any of the amenities the Members allege.

Messrs. Galvin and Cameron appear to have seen an opportunity to make political propaganda out of the Retrenchment Policy. As ex-servicemen we take strong exception to becoming the medium, more particularly as the statements are absolute balderdash. Quite obviously the Members got their information from pure hearsay, not from patients.

Excellent work is done by the staff of this Hospital.

Summed up, all essential facilities for medical treatment in repatriation medical institutions including the Repatriation General Hospital, Springbank, have been preserved.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 1592

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Conciliation and Arbitration Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1051, No. 118.

Customs Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1951, No. 122.

Excise Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1951, No. 123.

Hospital Benefits Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1951, No. 119.

Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired for - Defence purposes - Chester Hill, New South Wales.

Postal purposes - Bakers Hill, Western Australia.

Nationality and Citizenship Act - Regulations Statutory Rules 1951, No. 120.

Northern Territory Administration Act - Crown Lands Ordinance - Reasons for resumption of certain lands - Newcastle Waters.

Papua and New Guinea Act - Ordinances - 1951-

No. 31- Customs (Export) Tariff.

No. 32 - Electricity Supply.

Public Service Act -

Appointments - Department -

Parliamentary Library - B. P. Bradmore.

Territories - J. E. Barnes.

Works and Housing - J. M. Blackall.

Regulations - Statutory Rules 1951, No. 117.

Science and Industry Research Act - RegulationsStatutory Rules 1951, No. 121.

Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act - Ordinance - 1951 - No. 10 - Conveyancing.

House adjourned at 11.33 p.m.

page 1592

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Royal Visit to Australia.

Transport.

Wheat

Mr Leslie:
MOORE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

e asked the Minister representing the Minister acting for the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice -

Is it a fact that the money in the Wheat Stabilization Fund is now far in excess of any likely demand to meet the requirements of the scheme?
1. Has the Government given consideration to the representations made for a refund to wheat-growers of the whole or part of the money collected from wheat-growers in the No. .12 wheat pool and paid into the fund?
If so, when will the refund He paid?
ls it a fact that wheat-growers were given an undertaking that the stabilization fund would be kept within reasonable limits according to potential demands and that the money belongs to the growers?
If so, will the Government make provision for an immediate distribution of the suggested refund?

Air. Anthony. - The Minister acting for the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has furnished the following reply : -

A bill to authorize a refund of tax in connexion with No. 12 wheat pool was introduced in the Senate on the 31st October, 1951.

Health and Medical SERVICES

Mr Fitzgerald:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice -

Will he give consideration to the provision of medical benefits for persons now residing in Australia who are receiving payment under the British age pension scheme?

Sir Earle Page:
CP

– The bases of eligibility for age pensions in Australia and the United Kingdom are completely different and it is not proposed at present to extend the arrangements beyond the existing field of eligibility.

Whaling

Mr Drury:
RYAN, QUEENSLAND

y asked the Minister representing the Minister acting for the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice -

Is it anticipated that whaling fleets from several countries, including Russia, will shortly be operating in the Antarctic?
Is it a fact that Australia normally imports a substantial quantity of whale oil?
Is the present price of whale oil approximately £100 a ton?
Has he any knowledge of plans for the expansion of the whaling industry by Australian interests in either the Antarctic or Australian waters, apart from the present whaling operations off the Western Australian coast ?

Mr Anthony:
CP

– The Minister acting for the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has furnished the following replies: - .

Yes. From reports received by the Commonwealth Government it is expected that nineteen whaling fleets will be operating in the

Antarctic during the season which will commence on the 2nd January, 1952, comprising the following nationalities: - Norway, 10: United Kingdom, 3; Japan, 2; Union of South Africa, 1 ; Netherlands, 1 ; Panama, 1 ; Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, 1.

Imports of whale oil into Australia have been relatively small, the quantities and value? during recent years being -

Following the recent development of the whaling industry by two shore-based stations in Western Australia, Australia is now exporting whale oil, and it is anticipated that over 9,000 tons will be exported as the result of operations during the 1951 season.

It is understood that whale oil produced in Australia this year has been disposed of at prices in the vicinity of £150 a ton (Australian currency).
In addition to the two stations that operated on the Western Australian coast during the 1951 season, it is expected that a land station will be ready to operate at Albany.. Western Australia, during 1952. On the east coast a station is being erected on Moreton Island, Queensland, which is also expected to be operated during 1952.

Housing

Mr Daly:

y asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice -

How many applications have been received each year since 1945 for finance under the War Service Homes Act for (a) purchase of new homes through the commission,
1. purchase of existing properties and
1. discharge of mortgages?
What was the average individual amount advanced in the Commonwealth and in each State respectively in each year for each of these purposes?
What is the estimated delay in the Commonwealth and in each State respectively between the date of approval of an application under each heading and the date of the applicant’s entry into occupation of the premises ?
How many applications are outstanding under each heading in the Commonwealth and in each State?
What is the amount involved under each heading in the Commonwealth and in each State?
Is the policy of advances under the War Service Homes Act any different from that pursued at the present time by (a) the Commonwealth Bank, (b) private banks, (c) insurance companies and (d) other home building and finance organizations?
If so. in what way do the policies differ?

Mr Townley:
Minister for Social Services · DENISON, TASMANIA · LP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : - 1. (a) The total number of applications received each financialyear since 1945-46 for all classes of assistance under the War Service Homes Act are -

The number of applications received does not necessarily represent the number of homes provided under the various classes of assistance during this period. The homes actually provided ineach year were -

(a) The information is not readily available in the form requested by the honorable member and to obtain these details would necessitate a considerable amount of research for which staff is not available. It must be remembered, too, that the maximum amount of loan or advance which could be made available under the War Service Homes Act has varied over the period. In April, 1946, the statutory limitation was raised from £950 to £1,250; in July, 1947, this was increased to £1,750 and again in July, 1949, to £2,000 which is the maximum amount at present available.

The average cost of homes, including land, erected under the act in each year is -

The average amount of loan or advance in respect of assistance granted for the purchase of an existing property and/or the discharge of a mortgage is not available for each class of benefit. The combined figures under these two headings are -

(a) The period which elapses between the date of approval for a loan or advance in a building case and the date upon which the applicant enters into occupation of the home is governed by the contract time and unforeseen difficulties arising in regard to supplies of materials or shortages of labour. Every endeavour is made to obviate delays and building cases are kept under continuous review to overcome difficulties of this description. However, the War Service Homes Division in common with other building authorities, has to face these problems and to take whatever steps arc appropriate to have each home completed and occupied within a reason able period from the date upon which the proposal is approved.

Applications for the purchase of an existing property or the discharge of a mortgage are dealt with immediately they are received and providing no difficulties are met with in regard to title, valuation or survey (where this service is required) it is possible for the whole transaction to be completed within one month from date proposal is submitted. In emergent cases settlement has been effected in a lesser period.
1. Applications pending at the 30th September, 1951, were -

This information is not available. The total expenditure of the War Service Homes Division would not exceed the sum of the number of applications on hand multiplied by ?2,000, which is the statutory amount available under the act, in the event of all applications proceeding to finality. It is estimated that approximately 56 per cent. of applications received for assistance result in the provision of a war service home and that the balance are either withdrawn or refused.
The policy under the War Service Homes Act which is determined by the Government is not influenced by that of outside organizations and the act is administered in accordance with the provisions of the statute and the regulations made thereunder. The policies under which the other authorities operate are determined by them and they are not governed by the same statutory requirements as is the Director of War Service Homes. The conditions are not comparable.
See reply to Question 6.

Capital Issues

Mr Daly:

y asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

What are the names of (a) the members of the Capital Issues Board and (b) the delegate of the Treasurer in each State?
What arc the qualifications required of members and delegates?

Sir Arthur Fadden:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : - 1 and 2. The members of the Capital Issues Board are -

Mr. W. C. Balmford, F.I.A. (Chairman)Commonwealth Actuary and a member of the previous Capital Issues Board.

Mr. A. N. Armstrong ; General Manager, Industrial Finance Department of the Commonwealth Bank and a member of the previous Capital Issues Board.

Mr. J. S. Campbell, F.F.A.; General Manager and Actuary of the National Mutual Life Association of Australasia Limited.

Mr. A. E. Heath, C.M.G., A.C.A. (Aust.). - Secretary, Sydney and Suburban Timber Merchants Association Limited, Agent-General for New South Wales in London 1034-38 and President of Sydney Chamber of Commerce 1940-42. 1944-46 and 1947-49.

Mr. P. W. Nette, A.T.C.A.- First Assistant Secretary, Department of the Treasury.

The following persons, who are all officers of the Department of the Treasury, hold delegated powers and functions under the Defence Preparations (Capital Issues) Regulations: -

Mr. W. C. Balmford, Mr. G. Hunter, Mr: R. A. N. Kelly- Canberra.

Mr. W. R. Hinchliffe, Mr. M. L Bradley, Mr. W. A. P. Flewellen - Melbourne.

Mr. S. O’Brien, Mr. D. R. Jamieson, Mr. A. Rodburn - Adelaide.

Mr. V. N. Powell, Mr. S. A. BiggsHobart.

Mr. M. W. O’Donnell, Mr. R. V. Hutchinson, Mr. R. W. O’Brien, Mr. V. M. Levy - Sydney.

Mr H. T. Shannon, Mr. B. W. GateBrisbane.

Mr. D. H. Higgins, Mr. E. E. MulcahyPerth.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 6 November 1951, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1951/19511106_reps_20_215/>.

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House of Representatives 6 November 1951

QUESTION

QUESTIONS

Mr SPEAKER:

QUESTION

MB. HOWARD BEALE, M.P

Mr WARD:EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · LP

QUESTION

CONFERENCE OE COMMONWEALTH PRIME MINISTERS

Dr EVATT:BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:LP

QUESTION

THE PARLIAMENT

Mr HOWSE:CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:LP

Mr McCOLM:BOWMAN, QUEENSLAND

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr OSBORNE:EVANS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr KEON:YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr ROSEVEAR:DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr ROSEVEAR:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr ROSEVEAR:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr ROSEVEAR:

Mr SPEAKER:

QUESTION

TELEPHONE SERVICES

Mr COSTA:BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ANTHONY:Postmaster-General · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

Mr FITZGERALD:PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ANTHONY:

QUESTION

GOVERNMENT LOANS AND FINANCE

Mr HAWORTH:ISAACS, VICTORIA

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr HAWORTH:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr HAWORTH:

Mr MENZIES:LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr MENZIES:

QUESTION

POTATOES

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:LP

QUESTION

HEALTH AND MEDICAL SERVICES

Mr SWARTZ:DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Sir EARLE PAGE:Minister for Health · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

Mr MORGAN:REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir EARLE PAGE:

Mr DAVIES:CUNNINGHAM, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir EARLE PAGE:

Mr FITZGERALD:

Sir EARLE PAGE:

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Sir EARLE PAGE:

Mr MULCAHY:LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir EARLE PAGE:

QUESTION

BASIC TV AGE

Mr BIRD:BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr HOLT:Minister for Immigration · HIGGINS, VICTORIA · LP

QUESTION

PAPUA AND NEW GUINEA

Mr TURNBULL:MALLEE, VICTORIA

Mr HASLUCK:Minister for Territories · CURTIN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · LP

QUESTION

POSTAL DEPARTMENT

Mr BRYSON:WILLS, VICTORIA

Mr ANTHONY:CP

Mr DUTHIE:WILMOT, TASMANIA

Mr ANTHONY:

QUESTION

KOREA

House of Representatives
6 November 1951

Mr WARD:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · LP

Dr EVATT:
BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr HOWSE:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr McCOLM:
BOWMAN, QUEENSLAND

Mr OSBORNE:
EVANS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr KEON:
YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr ROSEVEAR:
DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr COSTA:
BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ANTHONY:
Postmaster-General · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

Mr FITZGERALD:
PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HAWORTH:
ISAACS, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr SWARTZ:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Minister for Health · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr DAVIES:
CUNNINGHAM, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr MULCAHY:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr BIRD:
BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr HOLT:
Minister for Immigration · HIGGINS, VICTORIA · LP

Mr TURNBULL:
MALLEE, VICTORIA

Mr HASLUCK:
Minister for Territories · CURTIN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · LP

Mr BRYSON:
WILLS, VICTORIA

Mr ANTHONY:
CP

Mr DUTHIE:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

Mr W M BOURKE:
FAWKNER, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr ALLAN FRASER:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr FRANCIS:
Minister for the Army · MORETON, QUEENSLAND · LP

Mr DRUMMOND:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr LAWRENCE:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Mr CREMEAN:
HODDLE, VICTORIA

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

Mr WHEELER:
MITCHELL, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

Mr CLARK:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN:
Treasurer · MCPHERSON, QUEENSLAND · CP

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr ALLAN FRASER:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr HOLT:
LP

Mr WIGHT:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

Mr HOLT:
LP

Mr PETERS:
BURKE, VICTORIA

Sir ARTHUR FADDEN:
CP

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr DRAKEFORD:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA