House of Representatives
22 June 1950

19^th Parliament · 1^st Session

QUESTION
- DRIED FRUITS
QUESTION
- NEW SUB-MACHINE GUN
QUESTION
- LABELLING OF TEXTILES
QUESTION
- CIVIL AVIATION
QUESTION
- ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY
QUESTION
- ARMED FORCES
QUESTION
- THE PARLIAMENT
QUESTION
- MOTOR VEHICLES
QUESTION
- SOIL EROSION
QUESTION
- WAR NEUROSIS
QUESTION
- SHIPPING
QUESTION
- HEALTH AND MEDICAL SERVICES
QUESTION
- CIVIL DEFENCE
QUESTION
- COAL
QUESTION
- HOUSING
QUESTION
- REPATRIATION
QUESTION
- ONIONS
QUESTION
- INSULIN
QUESTION
- MEAT
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL UNIVERSITY
QUESTION
- BASIC WAGE
QUESTION
- FODDER CONSERVATION
QUESTION
- COMPULSORY MILITARY TRAINING
QUESTION
- CUSTOMS TARIFF
KADIMAH
AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION
BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE
COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950
COAL
COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950
QUESTION
- MR. E. J. WARD, M.P
OBJECTION TO RULING
- Suspension of Member
COMMONWEALTH BANK. BILL 1950
SOCIAL SERVICES. CONSOLIDATION BILL 1950
TARIFF BOARD BILL 1950
BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE
COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950
COMMONWEALTH BANK BILL 1950
SOCIAL SERVICES CONSOLIDATION BILL 1950
PRINTING COMMITTEE
LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO ALL MEMBERS
SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT
ADJOURNMENT
- Cost of Living
PAPERS
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
- National Debt
- Dollar Deficits
- Mr. Jules Meltzer
- Comic Strips
- Government Loans
MEMBERS OF THE SENATE

– It has been decided to allot the proposed service to Ansett Airways Proprietary Limited, but for the time being on a restricted basis only because of the fact that the Warrnambool aerodrome is not in a condition to allow the operation of wet-weather services. The conversion of the aerodrome into an all-weather airfield will be a major task which will take, I should guess, about twelve months. In addition, all the other facilities normal to a commercial aerodrome would have to be provided. The Government will go ahead with that work, but I can give no indication that the licence for the service will be other than a restricted licence, because of the condition of the field, until possibly a year has passed.

Dr EVATT:
BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I ask the Minister acting for the Minister for Civil Aviation a question relative to the difficulty that is reported to have arisen in connexion with the proposed flight to New Zealand of a Captain Bradshaw and his family. Captain Bradshaw claims the right to complete his flight under the International Air Convention. Will the Minister inform the House what the position is and, if possible, arrange for the transport to New Zealand of the Bradshaw family, or else reach some understanding with Captain Bradshaw?

Mr CASEY:

– I had a considerable discussion with Captain Bradshaw last night, as a result of which I still adhere to my previous view that we should not be right in allowing him and his wife and child to proceed to New Zealand in a small single-engine aircraft, because I believe that the hazard of such a flight in such an aircraft is far too great. However, I am perfectly willing, as the Minister acting for the Minister for

Civil Aviation, to allow Captain Bradshaw to proceed alone in his own aircraft, if he wishes to do so. If he chose to do so the Government would find, through Tasman Empire Airway? Limited, passages for his wife and child to New Zealand. If he declines that offer then passages will be offered to the whole family through Tasman Empire Airways Limited.

Mr Pollard:

– Will the Government pay for those passages?

Mr CASEY:

– Yes.

Mr Pollard:

– Why should it do so?

Mr CASEY:

– The Government has put a disability on this gentleman by preventing him from flying to New Zealand, and it will approach the New Zealand Government with a view to having it share the cost of the passages.

page 4776

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Mr HAWORTH:
ISAACS, VICTORIA

– I preface a question to the Minister for the Navy by stating that in the early part of last year, during the term of office of the previous Government, several technical officers were brought out from the United Kingdom under contract to the Royal Australian Navy and under bond to serve for a period of years. On arrival in Melbourne with their wives these men discovered that the only accommodation that had been reserved for them was at a hotel, at a weekly tariff of £15 to £20 a week. No alternative accommodation was made available. Their salaries were in no way commensurate with the tariff charged by the hotel, and consequently they have been compelled to accept the most indifferent boarding accommodation elsewhere. Is this state of affairs in accordance with the policy of the present Government in relation to the bringing to Australia of technical officers? Will the Minister see that when technicians are brought to Australia under bond reasonable accommodation at a “tariff commensurate with their wages is guaranteed on their arrival?

Mr FRANCIS:
Minister for the Army · MORETON, QUEENSLAND · LP

– I am surprised to hear the statement of the honorable member. It does not represent the policy of the Government. I can hardly believe that at any time a naval rating or any other member of the service has been required to pay board and lodgings at the rate he has mentioned. However, to overcome the problem referred to the department has taken over “ Whitehall “ at Sorrento in Victoria, a boarding house which will accommodate 100 families at a reasonable cost, and at “ Capricornia “ in the Blue Mountains of New South Wales it has established a boarding house capable of accommodating150 families. By this and other means much has been done to meet the need for accommodation for the naval personnel. The Minister for Works and Housing is acquiring prefabricated houses overseas, and a very substantial number of them will be made available to the three services. I thank the honorable member for bringing this matter under my notice. If the honorable member will also give me the name of the technical officer to whom he has referred I shall arrange for one of the naval welfare officers in Melbourne to do what he can to assist him in improving his accommodation.

page 4777

QUESTION

ARMED FORCES

Mr BRYSON:
WILLS, VICTORIA

– I desire to ask the Minister acting for the Minister for Defence a question on a subject to which I have referred on previous occasions. In view of the recent statements by the Minister for the Army that the rate of recruitment for the services is much below the figure required, mainly because of the low rate of pay, and in view of the continued increase in living costs and the continued increase in wages paid in industry has the Government yet given consideration to granting a reasonable increase in the rates of pay for servicemen ? If not, when will consideration he given to that matter?

Mr McBRIDE:
Minister for the Interior · WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP

– As I stated on a previous occasion, the rates of pay and conditions of all members of the services are under constant consideration and when increases are considered tobe necessary, they will be granted.

page 4777

QUESTION

THE PARLIAMENT

Broadcasting of ProceedingsPhotographs.

Mr FAILES:
LAWSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I wish to ask you, Mr. Speaker, a question which is prompted by letters I have received concerning interjections and noise in this House when the proceedings are being broadcast. 1 refer particularly to comments and interjections that have been made at the table and which are not audible to honorable members, but are clearly audible in the broadcast. During recess will you confer with your engineers in order to arrange the microphones so thatbroadcasts will not include comment or interjections which are not generally audible to the House?

Mr SPEAKER:

-It is quite impossible to do as the honorable member has suggested while microphones are in use in the House. Honorable members are apparently unconvinced of the sensitiveness of these microphones, but comments which have been made at the table and which I have sometimes not heard and things that have been said by honorable members in other parts of the House have been repeated to me by letter. In some cases I have discovered who made the statements, which were of a nature that should not have been made in this chamber. The remedy rests with honorable members themselves and not with the Speaker. If honorable members will indulge in private conversations and pleasantries across the table or in other parts of the House in front of live microphones there is no remedy that the Speaker or the engineers can apply.

Mr COSTA:
BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I desire to address a question to you, Mr. Speaker. Recently, a photograph was taken of this chamber to adorn the walls of the new House of Commons, but, unfortunately, honorable members who occupy the back benches are obscure in it, I believe that, as the result, the best features in. the House are missing from the photograph. Can you, Mr. Speaker, arrange to have a photograph taken in which all honorable members will appear? I believe that such a photograph could be taken from various points in the chamber other than from under the clock in the public gallery from which the previous photograph was taken. Cameras could probably be placed at the entries from the Government lobby and the Opposition lobby respectively. I should also like to see you, Mr. Speaker, included in such a photograph because I think that your wig and robes of office are most impressive, and would help to adorn the picture. Perhaps you are not aware, sir, that copies of the photograph are on sale at 5s. each. Such a copy is of no value to me at the moment, because I do not appear in it. I hope that another photograph of the chamber will be taken, in which the occupants of the back benches will appear. No doubt it will be some time before they get to the front benches, but they will progress there in due course. I suggest that if we who sit on the back benches were satisfactorily included in the photograph, copies of it might sell for as much as 7s. 6d. each. My colleagues and I who sit some distance from the front bench would like to appear in a photograph of the chamber so thai our great-great grandchildren and their children could point their fingers at the greatness of their ancestors.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The arrangements for taking the photograph of this chamber were made by the Department of Information. s

Dr Evatt:

– The Department of Information no longer exists.

Mr SPEAKER:

– A section of the former Department of Information is now functioning as the News and Information Bureau at the Department of the Interior. Many attempts were made to find the nest point from which the House could be photographed. It was impossible, I was told, to include the whole chamber in one photograph. The empty House was used for experimental purposes, and, after many experiments, it was decided that the most advantageous position was from below the clock in the public gallery. Honorable members who occupy the back benches could not be be satisfactorily focussed in the photograph. I regret, in view of the purpose for which the photograph was taken, that neither the Government nor the Opposition front bench was very fully occupied at the time. That is a matter on which I simply comment. The honorable member for Banks has referred to the rate of progress of honorable gentlemen from the back benches to the front benches in this chamber. That matter presents great difficulties in a case of this kind, but the honorable member will realize, as he has seen the photograph, that it is one of the few occasions on which I am allowed to take the centre of the stage.

page 4778

QUESTION

MOTOR VEHICLES

Mr DALY:
GRAYNDLER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– My question is addressed to the Prime Minister. In view of the late stage of the session, will he consider : How many motor cars have been imported into Australia from the United States of America since the ending of the permit allocation system? What are the makes of the cars that have been imported and the number of each make? Will the right honorable gentleman also give me full details of the number of each make of motor car allocated to the various States and also the number of cars allocated to city and country areas within the various States? If he is not in a positon to answer this question immediately, will he regard it as having been placed on the notice-paper and give me an answer some time during the parliamentary recess?

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · LP

– I hope the honorable member will not be disappointed when I say that oddly enough I have not the precise figures with me. I shall endeavour to obtain the information asked for.

page 4778

QUESTION

SOIL EROSION

Mr SWARTZ:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

– Some weeks ago I raised the question of soil erosion in Australia. Is the Minister for National Development aware that since that time the process of soil erosion, particularly on the east coast of Australia, has been greatly accelerated by the heavy rains during the extended wet season? Is he also aware that the existing soil conservation authorities in the States, whale doing excellent work, particularly in a technical advisory capacity, represent a totally inadequate means of stemming the process of soil erosion which now constitutes a threat to primary productive effort in Australia? I again ask the Minister to give consideration, under the plans for national, development, to the formation of a Commonwealth body to work in conjunction with the States so that this problem may be dealt with on a national basis ?

Mr CASEY:
LP

-I am well aware that the recent abnormal rains have probably had the effect that the honorable member has mentioned. However, I cannot see that the States are necessarily wholly inadequate to cope with the soil erosion and soil conservation problem. So far as the matter concerns the departments for which I am responsible. I shall certainly give it consideration. If necessary, I shall act in conjunction with other Ministers concerned.

page 4779

QUESTION

WAR NEUROSIS

Mr FITZGERALD:
PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Repatriation whether the Government has given final consideration to the numerous requests of service organizations for the issue of a special identification badge or cardto ex-servicemen suffering from war neurosis. If so, what has been the result of that consideration? By way of explanation of the reason for my question, I say that in many cases of war neurosis, the unfortunate sufferers have been picked up and taken to gaols or reception houses instead of to hospitals.

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

-I shall be pleased to refer the’ question to the Minister for Repatriation. I am under the impression that so far the matter has not been investigated, but I shall discuss it at length with the Minister.

page 4779

QUESTION

SHIPPING

Mr McCOLM:
BOWMAN, QUEENSLAND

– Will the Minister for

Supply find it possible during the forthcoming recess to travel to the various States in connexion with the future of the shipbuilding industry in the Commonwealth and if it can be arranged, address meetings on the subject?

Mr BEALE:
LP

-I do not know what I can do about addressing meetings. I am always ready to address a meeting if one canbe assembled to listen, to me. During the parliamentary recess I intend to visit certain shipbuilding yards in Australia.I shall go toWhyalla, in South Australia, and to certain yards in Queensland and New South Wales. Whether I address meetings or not will depend on whether people want me to talk to them.

page 4779

QUESTION

HEALTH AND MEDICAL SERVICES

Mr GORDON ANDERSON:
KINGSFORD-SMITH, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-Will the Minister for Health inform the House whether the executive officers of the New South Wales Rail, Tram and Omnibus Employees Hospital and Subsidiary Funds have made known to him their existence, the scope of their activities and the membership of their organization ? If so, will the claims of the organization be given appropriate consideration when the details of the Government’s proposed health scheme are being finally determined ?

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Minister for Health · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

-I have had several consultations with the executive officers of that body. They are kept well informed of the Government’s intentions.

page 4779

QUESTION

CIVIL DEFENCE

Mr TOWNLEY:
DENISON, TASMANIA

-I direct a question to the Minister acting for the Minister for Defence concerning defence against atomic warfare. The possibility of atomic attacks may be extremely remote, but should such assaults occur, they will almost certainly come suddenly. In view of the fact that all large cities in Australia constitute almost perfect targets for atomic weapons, will the Minister say whether plans for civil defence have been considered ? Have any steps been taken to educate the public in the precautions that should be taken againstboth the immediate effects and the after effects of an atomic explosion? Have members of the medical profession been placed in possession of sufficient, knowledge to enable them to play their part effectively in the event of an atomic assault? Has consideration been given to the provision of leadlined or other rooms suitable for use as shelters in hospitals, particularly maternity hospitals?

Mr McBRIDE:
LP

-Action has been taken to provide for civil defence against all forms of attack that maybe expected in the next war. The Director of Civil Defence is Mr. Carrodus, who is already in consultation with his opposite numbers in the various States with a view to arranging for the necessary defence preparations to be made. In addition, Brigadier Waddell is overseas at present investigating what is being done in the

United Kingdom and on the continent in respect of civil defence.We expect to he able to expand our activities considerably upon his return to Australia.

KADIMAH

Mr. MENZIES (Kooyong- Prime

Minister) - by leave - On the motion for the adjournment of the House on Tuesday, the 30th May, the right honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway), and the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Beazley) referred to police investigations made recently in Melbourne, concentrating on the families of members of Kadimah, a Jewish cultural and literary society. Subsequently, the honorable member for Eden-Monaro (Mr. Eraser) placed on the notice-paper a series of questions relating apparently to the same matters and referring in particular to a Mr. Jules Meltzer. The Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Holt), who was in charge of the House when the matters were first raised, undertook to make inquiries.I say at once, and categorically, that neither the Attorney-General (Senator Spicer), to whom the honorable member for Eden-Monaro addressed his questions, nor any other Commonwealth Minister, directed anysuch inquiry as those alleged to have been carried out. It is a sound general rule that information should not be given about inquiries which the security service has, or has not, thought it necessary to make. Responsibility for making all inquiries necessary for the preservation of internal security in Australia has been vested in the Director-General of Security, who in this regard is not subject to any ministerial direction whatever. Nevertheless, in view of the plain political intention of the Questions asked by the honorable member for Eden-Monaro, I state, again categorically, that no officer of the Commonwealth has, in fact, made, taken part in, or requested any of the police investigations that have been referred to. I think it well to add that in future I propose to follow the practice that was established by the present Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Chifley) when in office and not to deal in the Parliament with the activities of this service. On the 27th May. 1949, the right honorable gentleman said in this House -

It is not the practice in this, or in any other country, to discuss in the Parliament the methods employed by an organization of that kind. Therefore, I do not propose to deal with such details here. The work of the security organization is entrusted to highly qualified men who can be considered to be completelyimpartial. Should any matter arise which I believe should be reported to the Parliament, I shall take that course.

I simply add that I also shall adopt that practice.

page 4783

AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING COMMISSION

Mr ANTHONY:
PostmasterGeneral · Richmond · CP

– by have - I desire to announce the re-appointment of two commissioners to the Australian Broadcasting Commission. They are Sir John Medley, who was formerly vice-chancellor of the University of Melbourne, who has been a member of the commission for three years and has been re-appointed for a further period of three years. The second appointment is that of Mr.C. W. Anderson, vice-president of the New South Wales Trades and Labour Council, who has also been a member of the commission for three years and has been re-appointed for a similar further term. Executive approval has been given for both re-appointments.

page 4783

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate : -

With amendments -

Commonwealth Bank Bill 1050.

Without amendment -

State Grants (Coal Mining Industry Long Service Leave) Bill 1950.

Wool Realization Bill 1.950.

Wool (Contributory Charge) Assessment Bill1950.

Wool (Reserve Prices) Fund Bill 1950.

National ity and Citizenship (Burmese) Bill 1950.

Without requests -

Wool (Contributory Charge) (No. 1) Bill 1950.

Wool (Contributory Charge) (No. 2) Bill 1950.

page 4784

COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950

Bill returned from the Senate with a message intimating that it had disagreed to the amendments made by the House of Representatives to the Senate’s amendments Nos. 7 and 16, and that it insisted on its amendments Nos. 2, 3, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17, 20, 21, 22 and 28 for the reasons given in the annexed schedule.

page 4784

COAL

Debate resumed from the 6th June (vide page 3742), on motion by Mr. Wentworth -

That, in the opinion of this House, the Federal Government’s efforts to increase the production of open-cut coal in Australia should be continued and intensified; and, further, that the present underhand sabotage of open-cut coal production by the New South Wales Labour Government should be checked as far as possible.

Mr McCOLM:
Bowman

.-I consider that the production of open-cut coal is of vital importance to the Commonwealth and it is unfortunate that in recent times the discussion of this important subject appears to have assumed a party-political significance. I believe that it is wrong to regard this matter from a party-political point of view. Only a few weeks ago some statements were made during the debate on the adjournment of the House regarding the attitude of the Queensland Government towards the Callide coal-field. On that occasion, I took strong exception to the way in which the matter had been presented. I believe very firmly that not only should open-cut coal-mining be developed speedily throughout Australia, but that the Callide deposits in Queensland in particular should receive every consideration and should be thoroughly developed, because the Callide field is one of the largest coalfields in Australia where coal is readily accessible and a considerable amount of developmental work has already been carried out there. Since this matter was previously debated in the House, I have attempted to obtain some information on the position in relation to the Callide field. I have previously expressed the opinion that it would be a great mistake to carry the railway line from the field to Rockhampton so as to provide an outlet for the coal produced. I have stated that I consider that Queensland has, in Gladstone, a port that could become the second port of the Commonwealth if it were properly developed. It has every potential that is necessary for the making of a splendid port. I believe that the railway from the Callide field should not be constructed to Rockhampton, but should run through Calliope. That route would leave a road haul of only 16 miles, which would be comparatively simple. I believe that Gladstone must be developed as a port, not only for the sake of Queensland and of central Queensland in particular, but also in the interests of the Commonwealth, so that ‘ we shall be able to get the vast industrial resources that lie inland from it. Coal is being imported to Australia from India and ‘South Africa and I understand that the Australian Government is paying a subsidy on it. The necessity for the importation of that coal arises from the fact that we are unable to build up our urgently needed stockpiles from local production speedily enough. I am in agreement with that proposition, but at the same time I believe that we should be developing our own internal coal resources. For that reason I should like to see a successful outcome of the investigations that have gone on for the last week or so in Queensland regarding the development of the Callide field. It has been stated, but I am not certain about the accuracy of the figures quoted, that overseas coal can be imported to Melbourne at a cost slightly lower than that at which coal produced in Queensland can be transported to Melbourne. Would the Government give serious consideration to the fact that in subsidizing the importation of coal from overseas we are sending money out of the country, whereas by putting the same money to work in the development of our own internal coal production we would assist considerably in national development. We must also consider that there is a royalty of 6d. a ton paid to the Queensland Government on all coal from the Callide field and there is a 5s. a ton road tax also. While the upkeep of that road is undoubtedly extremely heavy, there is also undoubtedly some profit derived from that road tax. Another important levy is that of 6d. a ton excise that is contributed for the payment of miners’ pensions. There are very few miners working at Callide. I agree that this money is essential to provide pensions, but, to a. certain extent, it is being paid into a fund under’ false pretences because there are practically no miners working there, and it is a considerable source of profit .to the Government. As I have said, there is a 5s. a ton road tax on all coal coming from the field. There is also a petrol tax which works out at approximately 2s. 6d. for every ton of coal moved from the field. That petrol tax represents an almost clear profit to the Government. In addition, I believe that there are some 89 coal trucks and about a dozen or so other vehicles there, all of which pay registration fees. If the Government were to look at the matter from this point of view and consider the considerable amount of .tax obtained from the purchase of items of heavy equipment, I think it would easily find thai the coal is actually being produced at a profit between £1 and £2 a ton. The development of vital industries within our own Commonwealth, should not even be threatened with being hamstrung by the underground mines to the extent that they have been threatened in the past. Open-cut coal-mines must be developed, not only as an economic measure but, to a large extent, as a defence measure. Honorable members have heard u lot of talk recently about getting some value back into the £1 and the working of some of these open-cut coal-mines woUld be one method of ensuring that value will eventually be put back into the £1

I have only seen Callide for a little while and .that was some considerable time ago, before a commencement was made with the production of coal. It is a district in which I should not care to live, but a considerable number of men are living there now. A lot of machinery is there which is capable of doing a very good job, and I think that the Government should use its influence to ensure that in the comparatively near future a decision is made which will ensure the development of the Callide field. I do not think that that decision should wait until some time in the future. Machinery and men are at Callide, but the men cannot stay there unless .they are in paying employment, and I think that the Commonwealth Government would be well advised to give every consideration to granting assistance in the development of open-cut fields in general and the Callide field in particular.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I welcome the opportunity provided by this debate to bring to the notice of the Government the importance of the Leigh Creek coal-field, which is capable of supplying South Australia with the major quantity of coal it requires for the production of electricity. The Electricity Trust of South Australia, since it took over from the Adelaide Electric Supply Company, has done a magnificent job in supplying electricity to parts of the State which had been neglected by the Adelaide Electric Supply Company, an instrument of private enterprise, which was not prepared to send electricity to parts of the State that were badly in need of it because its supply would not have provided a satisfactory profit. I believe that; statistics will show that the development of Leigh Creek coalfield would allow about 500,000 tons of black coal now going to South Australia, from New South Wales to be diverted elsewhere. The field is quite capable of producing the coal necessary to dispense with the need for using any New South Wales coal for the production nf electric power. During the coal strike the South Australian Government was able to produce 13,000 tens of coal a week from the open-cut field at Leigh Creek, but, to-day, that production has been permitted to slip back to about 6,000 or 7,000 tons a week. The South Australian Government has evidently deliberately permitted the production of coal at the open-cut field at Leigh Creek to drop to about 50 per cent, of what the field was proved to be capable of producing during the coal strike. The Government cannot accuse the Communist party of being responsible for the reduction that has taken place. It cannot blame any other organization or factor for the reduction. Its own ineptitude must be held responsible. The employees engaged in the production of the coal at Leigh Creek are members of the Australian’ Workers Union and since Leigh Creek has been in operation the members of that union have had only one strike which occurred four years ago when they protested against the intrusion of the Communist-dominated miners’ union and against working side by side with people who were there as the direct agents of the thenCommunist deminated miners’ federation. I visited Leigh Creek for the sole purpose of destroying the efforts of this Communist dominated organization to gain control of South Australia’s only known supplies of fuel. The Australian Workers Union received very little assistance from the South Australian Government in that regard and when the union requested that Government to assist it to keep Leigh Creek free from the domination of the Communist-controlled miners’ federation which sent directions from Sydney to its men at Leigh Creek and asked that the Government should give preference of employment to the Australian Workers Union, the Government said that it could not do that because the Liberal party did not believe in preference to unionists.

Mr Casey:

-Who said that?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The Premier of South Australia. He said that the Liberal party’s policy was so strict in that respect that he, as Premier of the State, would have to abide by it even if, as a result, all the coal-field employees at Leigh Creek became members of the miners’ federation. That was the attitude of the Liberal Premier of South Australia on that occasion. It was due entirely to the courageous stand of the officials of the Australian Workers Union in South Australia that Leigh Greek coal-field to-day is not under the domination of the Communist-controlled miners federation. Had it not been for my efforts and the efforts of officers of the Australian Workers Union such as Mr. Galvin, Mr. O’Connor, and Mr. Murphy, that field to-day would not be free from the domination of the elements which, in the past, have controlled the coal-fields of New South Wales.

Mr Downer:

– The Electricity Trust of South Australia has helped far more than has the honorable member or the Australian Workers Union.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I thank the honorable member for that interjection, because he was a member of the Electricity Trust of South Australia when I requested that the men employed by it be granted the same standard working hours as. might be enjoyed by workers in open-cuts in New South Wales in the event of a working week of less than 40 hours being granted by the tribunal. The Electricity Trust of South Australia by letter, a copy of which is in my possession, said that it was not prepared to give to Australian Workers Union workers engaged in the opencuts at Leigh Creek the same standard hours as might be awarded to opencut workers in New South Wales who were members of the Communistcontrolled miners’ federation. It appeared from that statement that the Electricity Trust of South Australia, of which the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Downer) was a member, was deliberately attempting to play off the Australian Workers Union against the miners’ federation, and that its only interest in keeping the Australian Workers Union in the field at Leigh Creek was that of using it as a means of avoiding the granting of conditions that it would have had to giveto members of the miners’ federation.

Dr Evatt:

-Is the Electricity Trust of South Australia a State or a. private undertaking?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– It is a State undertaking that is governed by a board. Ultimately, after having gone to a. great deal of trouble to convince the trust that its action would have no other result than that which I have mentioned, and after having been compelled to take other steps which I do not propose to disclose in this House, the trust altered its first decision and under great pressure promised that in regard to standard hours the Leigh Creek workers would be given the same conditions as were enjoyedby workers in the New South Wales field. It is obvious that the Electricity Trust of South Australia, which was then, and still is, under the domination of the Liberal Government of South Australia, had no intention whatsoever of giving to the Australian Workers Union men employed in the open-cut field at Leigh Creek the same working conditions as at that time were thought likely to be awarded to the workers in the open-cut fields in New South Wales.

Mr Downer:

– The Electricity Trust of South Australia is an independent body and is not under the domination of any outside persons or organizations.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– If you had heard a telephone conversation that I heard-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member must address me.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– If the honorable member had heard a telephone conversation that ‘I heard, his viewpoint would be quite different. Many of the recommendations made to him, as a private member of the Electricity Trust of South Australia, by the chairman of the trust, may have emanated from the mind of some politician. However, the fact is that not one of those recommendations was ever rejected by the members of the trust, including the honorable memheifer Angas.

Mr Turnbull:

– Tell us more about this telephone conversation.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I know that you are only repeating, Tom-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I apologize and withdraw that statement, Mr. Speaker. It came out hurriedly and I did not mean to make it. The Australian Government must provide sufficient money to build, or must itself have built, a 4-f t. §-£-in. gauge railway line from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta. That work must be done quickly. The Electricity Trust of South Australia is building a modern power station at Port Augusta which will cost about £2,000,000, and the full benefit of that station will not be obtained unless the Australian Government provides the necessary finance for the construction of a new railway line from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta.

Mr McLeay:

– Is there not an agreement on that matter in existence?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– No; they are fooling round with a proposal to widen the 3-ft. 6-in. gauge railway line from Port Augusta via Quorn to Leigh Creek, but the only answer to the problem of transporting the coal from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta lies in providing a standard gauge line on the western side of the Flinders Range so that it will not be necessary to traverse hills and take sharp corners through Horrocks Pass between Port Augusta and Quorn. The winding tracks from Port Augusta to Quorn and the hilly grades associated with the line between Beltana and Leigh Creek must be avoided if cheap transport for coal is to be provided between Leigh Creek and Port Augusta.

Mr McLeay:

– Was there not a decision of the Chifley Government on that point ?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– No, the only decision of the Chifley Government in respect of this matter was that the line was desirable and that money for it would be provided. If the South Australian Government wanted to build the line itself and provided 30 per cent, of the money, the Australian Government was prepared, to provide the balance for the construction of this South Australian railway. The railway from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta should be a Commonwealth undertaking. The Chifley Government was prepared to construct that line wholly at Commonwealth expense. It made an arrangement with the South Australian Government to transport coal from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta at a rate a ton a mile much below the rate at which it is possible to transport coal economically.

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

– What was the rate.?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– One halfpenny a ton a mile, I think.

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

– That is less than 50 per cent, of the economic rate.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Yes. It is impossible to transport coal at that rate on the 3-ft. 6-in. gauge line, on which the maximum tonnage for a coal train is about 300 tons. If the job is to be done economically the coal must be carried on trains that can haul at least 1,500 tons, and preferably 2,000 tons. That cannot be done while they are tinkering at the present railway system.

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

-Are any hopper trucks used?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– No, they also will be provided. The coal is being consigned at present in small wooden trucks which are quite uneconomical, and should not be used more than is necessary. The chief value of developing the Leigh. Creek open-cut and constructing a 4-ft.8½in. gauge railway line from Leigh Creek to Port Augusta lies in the fact that it would enable the power station now being constructed at Port Augusta to burn wholly Leigh Creek coal. That station would provide sufficient power to enable industry in South Australia to be widely decentralized. On the eastern coast of Spencer’s Gulf there are three very good ports. They are Port Augusta, Port Pirie and Wallaroo. The electricity generated at Port Augusta could be fed along the eastern coast of Spencer’s Gulf to Wallaroo, where the industries would be only 90 miles from Adelaide, and. would be easily accessible to overseas ships if the products of the industries that followed in its train were to be sent overseas.

It might be said that the cost of such an undertaking is too great to warrant its execution. In reply to that, I remind honorable members that we are already paying a subsidy on coal imported from South Africa and India. If that money were used in the construction of the railway line that I have been speaking about, and in furthering the development of the Leigh Creek coal-field, South Australia would become almost self-sufficient in coal, and would have to rely on New South Wales coal only for the production of gas. Leigh Creek coal can be used for the burning of bricks when it has been steam dried. I have seen how the Hoffman kilns in South Australia, as the result of experiments, have developed a means of burning bricks by the use of Leigh Creek coal without oil.

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

– What is its calorific value?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I cannot remember. It is not so high as that of black coal, but it is much higher than that of Yallourn coal and I understand that it is equal to that of Callide coal.

Mr Calwell:

– It is better than that of Wonthaggi coal.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Yes. An important fact is that the quality of Leigh Creek coal is improving. Coal produced from what is known as the northern field is of very much better quality than the coal that is being quarried from the opencut field at Leigh Creek itself.

Mr McLeay:

– Who is entitled to the credit for the development of the Leigh Creek coal-field?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The Australian Government, which provided a capital sum of £350,000 in order that the State Government could carry out the work.

Mr McLeay:

– Is no credit due to the Premier of South Australia?

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I thank the honorable member for that interjection because it reminds me that the Premier, when he first proposed to undertake the mining of coal at Leigh Creek, had to depend upon the Labour Opposition in the State Parliament in order to have the necessary legislation passed. Had it not been for the support that was given to him by Mr. R, S. Richards, who was then the Leader of the Opposition in the State Parliament, the powers that be - in other words the people who controlled the Adelaide Electric Supply Company Limited - would probably have prevented the passage of the bill as the result of the pressure that they brought to hear upon their cohorts in the upper house of the legislature. In fact, when the Premier sought to enlist the help of the Adelaide Electric Supply Company Limited in burning Leigh Creek coal in order to determine whether it was capable of producing power, the company refused point blank to co-operate with him so that South Australia could have an independent source of fuel supply.

Mr Casey:

– That is scarcely a balanced statement of the facts.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CRAMER:

– Yes, but only because we have been forced into the position of having to use it. That statement brings to my mind another difficulty that faces us in New South Wales; it has regard to the quality of the coal. The coal in some of the mines particularly in the western fields of New South Wales, is in two seams that are separated by a band of shale. In the past, mine-owners often extracted only the seam that had the greatest calorific value and left the lowergrade coal. Until eight or nine years ago, coal was .purchased on its specification, and not as it is to-day, by its tonnage, whether the quality be good or bad. A t the time to which I refer, coal was tendered for and supplied according to its specification, and no difficulty was experienced in purchasing it on that basis. The mineowners were obliged to segregate their coa] according fo its quality otherwise they would have lost certain markets.

Such conditions will not promote increased production of coal or any other product. I repeat that the time is .propitious for the calling of a conference of the kind that I have indicated. I am confident that if it tackled the problem in the right spirit, worthwhile results would be achieved. The aim of such a. conference should be to evolve for all time a satisfactory basis for the production of coal.

I know the difficulties that confront the coal-miners. No one likes coal-mining as a job. The coal-miners should be given h fair go. Such a conference should give careful consideration to two points. The first is the provision of economic security for a man who is prepared to work all his life as a coal-miner. Owing to lack of that security the coal-miner has been an easy prey to communism. The Government has already announced that it will take steps to deal with that problem, but I suggest that it should go further still. We should be prepared to guarantee security to all operatives in the coalmining industry. That would go a long way towards solving the problem of the industry as a whole. Secondly, consideration should be given to the provision of a guaranteed price for coal. To some degree, the price is guaranteed now, but in dealing with this matter we must look well ahead, because it is not a problem of producing sufficient coal to meet only our own requirements.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member’s time has expired.

Dr EVATT:
Barton

.- The Opposition agrees with certain points that were made by the honorable member for Bennelong (Mr. Cramer), but his references to the New South Wales Government were not justified. The motion submitted by the honorable member for Mackellar (Mr. Wentworth) makes the serious charge that the New South Wales Labour Government is responsible for “ the present underhand sabotage of open-cut coal production “. No evidence has been offered in support of that charge and its inclusion in a motion which, in other respects, is acceptable to the Opposition destroys any chance of the motion being accepted by the House. Tn fact, the Government will not support it because the Minister for National Development (Mr. Casey) knows that the charge cannot be substantiated. I do not pretend to have expert knowledge of the coal-mining industry, but I supported the efforts that were made for many years by the Chifley Government and by the McGirr Government of New South Wales to achieve the very objective that the honorable member for Mackellar now advocates. The Joint Coal Board is now well on the way to increasing production sufficiently to meet present demands. The suggestion that open-cut mines should be developed in wholesale fashion should be considered very carefully. I am sure the honorable member for Bennelong, as the result of his experience as a member of the Sydney County Council, will agree that such a, course would involve a great risk of waste of public funds. Opencut coal is not of high quality. It is not suitable for power, steaming or gas production. Open-cut, or outcrop, coal is, of course, of poorer quality than underground coal. Therefore, the Joint Coal Board will develop open-cut production while, at the same time, developing underground mines. Development in those two spheres must be co-ordinated. That is the problem which certain honorable members opposite should realize.

– Once again, the honorable member, in submitting views that may be worthy of consideration, has spoiled any chance of their acceptance by the violence and extravagance of his statements. He levelled his charge at the New South Wales Labour Government solely for the purpose of prejudicing it at the State general election. His attempt to discredit that Government failed because he could not produce evidence to support his charges. The New South Wales Labour Government co-operated fully with the Chifley Government and is now co-operating to the fullest degree with the present Government. It is a great pity that an honorable member should destroy an otherwise valuable contribution to a debate in this Parliament by irresponsible and ridiculous statements. Behind every occurrence in this country he sees some sinister Communist influence. He thinks that everybody who makes imputations of Communist influence must be speaking the truth. The Dobson case clearly established how wrong and credulous he is in these matters, and he should be the first to admit it. The most effective answer tohis charges, against the New South

Wales Labour Government was given by the people of New South Wales when they again returned that Government to office on Saturday last.

Mr PEARCE:
Capricornia

.- The open-cut mine that probably has been most prominently brought to the notice of the Australian people is that on the Callide field in Queensland. I have already demonstrated to the House the manner in which that great national asset has been handled by the Queensland Labour Government, the failure of which to take adequate steps to develop the field constitutes, perhaps, one of the most deplorable incidents in the history of coal-mining in that State. The Callide field is capable of providing sufficient coal to enable existing coal shortages to be largely overtaken. Action to develop our great resources of coal should be considerably intensified so that industrial production may be expanded to the point at which it will meet our needs. Coal plays’ such an important part in the progress and prosperity of this country that it is not astonishing that the possibility of developing the Callide field should loom very largely in our minds.

We must also look farther afield to the other great coal resources that exist in Queensland. Perhaps the largest deposits of coal in that State are at Blair Athol, but the Queensland Government has failed to develop those also in the interests of the people. Only a year or so ago the Labour Premier of Queensland announced that he had granted to an English company a concession to work the deposits at that field. He stated that the company intended to invest millions of pounds in the project, that railways were to be built from the field to the coast and that towns would be established along the coastline to enable miners employed on the field to enjoy their holiday breaks at the seaside. The project was characterized as a mighty one and the people of Queensland were naturally very enthusiastic about it. Imagine their reaction later when it was ascertained, not by the Queensland Government, but by an independent body, that the company had hardly “ two bob “ to its name, and, that it had unsuccessfully tried in all countries in Europe to sell its right to develop the field. The sorry story of that project demonstrates the ineptitude of the Queensland Government in this important matter.

Blair Athol and Callide are two very important coal-fields, but there are other large deposits at Byfield, which is situated on the coast near Rockhampton and on the upper Burnett at Selene. Honorable members will recall that seven or eight months ago Communists beat up the miners at Selene and the farmers of the surrounding district had to go to their assistance. The deposits in those areas might be capable of yielding high quality coal. To the north of Selene is the Callide field and to the north-west there is another deposit at Baralaba. Coal from the Baralaba mine is supplied to Mount Morgan, where so much wealth is produced for this country. In a north-westerly direction from Baralaba are the deposits at The Bluff and Blackwater. The Blair Athol deposits lie still farther north-west. It seems possible that the great coal seams then turn to the north-east, for there are outcrops in the Collinsville area in the Bowen district.

Although borings have been made to ascertain the extent of the deposits in many areas of Queensland more intensive boring should be undertaken not only on known fields but also at intermediate points between known fields. There is good reason for believing that the whole of central Queensland lies on a. vast deposit of coal and that intensive drilling may uncover untold wealth for this country. Mine-owners should be given every encouragement to install the most modern machinery for the extraction of coal so that unlimited supplies may be made available at the lowest possible cost. Those who work in the mines should enjoy the best working conditions that the industry can afford to provide. Most of the known coal deposits in Queensland are located in isolated areas. At Callide the opencut mine consists merely of a hole in the ground surrounded by a few shacks. The Callide field is situated 14 or 15 miles from the nearest town and between 70 or 80 miles from Gladstone. No telephones are installed there, and no amenities have been provided for the miners, whose children have to travel 4 miles to attend school at the nearest town. Miners are reluctant to take their families to the Callide field while conditions remain so primitive.

I believe that I am right in saying that experience in other countries has shown that the most satisfactory manner of utilizing coal resources is to locate in the vicinity of the coal deposits the industries that are dependent upon coal. The great coal deposits of Queensland, particularly of central Queensland, could be used to the best advantage if industries were established on, or were moved to, the coal-fields. That would obviate the necessity to transport coal from the fields over long distances for use in industrial establishments elsewhere. There is an abundance of iron in the ground in central Queensland, and industries established in that area could make use of the readily available coal to process the iron ore and to utilize the product in the manufacture of other commodities.

Other parts of the world provide many examples of huge industrial areas being located in the vicinity of coal and iron mines. Great quantities of raw wool pass through or near the great central area of Queensland on their way to the southern States and overseas countries where the wool is processed. A proportion of that wool is returned to Queensland in the form of manufactured goods. A proportion of the processing of Queensland wool and the manufacture of woollen goods could be carried out in the central Queensland area by factories operating on the resources that are available in that area. The establishment of industries in central Queensland would go a long way towards giving effect to a policy of decentralization because that area contains great mineral wealth of almost every description.

Before establishing big industries in central Queensland it would be necessary to find assured and continuing markets for their products. We must also seek an assured market for the immense quantities of coal that would be produced there under proper development. It is all very well for some honorable members to say that Callide coal should be subsidized and supplied to South Australia and Victoria, but any one who has anything to sell cannot force people to buy it. The seller must “ push “ his goods. I believe that the visit of the Premier of South Australia and of representatives of the Victorian Government to the Callide area in the last week will be beneficial, because they will have seen the true quality of the coal produced in that area and will be glad to buy it. Hitherto that has not been the. case. It is necessary not only that we should establish a market for Callide coal, but also that that market should be maintained. The construction of a railway from Callide to Gladstone would probably cost £2,000,000 or £3,000,000. It would not be’ of much use to build such a railway unless a continued market for the coal produced was assured for some years ahead. A market must first be established and it will be necessary to reach an agreement to ensure that it will continue for a period of years. If care were taken in all these respects the exploitation of the Callide mines by the open-cut method of production would be perfect. The present unsatisfactory position in relation to the transport of coal from Callide has sprung from the fact that two conflicting interests are being advanced in the Queensland Parliament. The present AttorneyGeneral of Queensland, Mr. Larcombe,. espouses the claims of Rockhampton as the terminal for the railway line from Callide. The honorable member for Port Curtis, Mr. Burrows, who represents the area from Gladstone down toBundaberg, wishes the railway to terminate at Gladstone. Mr. Larcombe wants the line to be run through Mount Morgan and down to Rockhampton. Heis a Cabinet Minister and Mr. Burrows is a back-bencher. Since the Callide fieldwas first discovered there has been a difference of opinion between these two men, both of whom are members of the Labourparty. Instead of getting together and working the problem out, as statesmen would do, they are both behaving likepetty politicians. That unfortunate position has to be overcome before the Callide field can be fully developed.

The Commonwealth should make investigations of the potential coal wealth of central Queensland by carrying out boring operations over the whole of thearea and not only in respect of the known fields. Having discovered the amount of underground wealth in the area we must endeavour to find a continued market for what is produced. The mineownersmust be given the assistance of the best machinery that can be procured and the men who work on the field must be provided with the best amenitiesobtainable. Transport must be provided to enable the coal to be moved from thefield at the cheapest possible rateMarkets for the coal must be established! in the vicinity of the mines so as to assist in the decentralization of industry. Opencut coal in Queensland must advance from its present position of only dormant wealth and become one of the greatest assets that Australia possesses.

Mr WATKINS:
Newcastle

.- I naturally am opposed to the motion before the House. T find it rather remarkable that a man of the character of the honorable member for Mackellar (Mr. Wentworth) should have initiated a motion of this kind. The honorable member for Mackellar has probably never been down a mine in his life and. actually knows nothing about the coal resources of this country or about coal-mining. I remind him at the outset that the proportion of open-cut coal resources in this country is only three per cent, of our total coal resources, which approximate 4,000,000,000 tons. If the coal-owners had in the past developed their coal mines with the future demand in mind and also in the national interest, we should not be so short of coal as we are to-day. It is all very well to talk of the sabotage of open-cut coal-mining. Who introduced and developed open-cut coalmining in New South Wales? Was it not a Labour government in the federal sphere and a New South Wales State Labour Government that did so? Did not those governments expand open -cut coal production to its present level of about 40,000 tons a week?

I turn now to coal-mining in general and I shall give the House some of the reasons for the present coal shortage. The principle reason for that shortage is that we lack both the colliery production capacity and experienced miners. I admit that some loss of output results “from strikes and other incidental causes as well as from inefficiency in methods and the long-standing enmity between the miners and the owners that had its genesis in the distant past. A good understanding of the reasons for that enmity can be gained from Richard Llewellyn’s novel Sow Green Wats My Valley. Another cause of the shortage is the insecurity felt by miners in certain coal-field areas, particularly in the West Wallsend, Kurri Kurri and Cessnock areas, and the wish of many miners employed there to seek employment in collieries in the Newcastle and Lake Macquarie areas. The position is a result of the fact that most of the mines in the South Maitland area are now producing coal by the extraction of pillars, which means, in effect, that the mines in that area are gradually being worked out. The coal-owners have made in. the past no provision at all for the opening of new mines to replace those that have been worked out. For that reason I have witnessed for many years the spectacle of mining towns going out of existence. West Wallsend, Minmi and Killingworth mines were closed because of lack of foresight or the deliberate intent of the coal-owners in days gone by. It is true that the miners have accepted mechanization in the mines, but I remind the House that that system of production is of no great value in the older mines although it is of great value in newly developed mines. Production in the older mines has fallen in many cases as a result of mechanization, the reason being that the haulage, transport and screening systems in those mines are obsolete and cannot cope with the quantity of coal produced by mechanization.

It makes me sad to hear any one like the honorable member for Mackellar, who knows nothing about the coal-mining industry, speaking on such an important matter. I do not know where he obtained his mining experience, but one might refer to him as a pseudo miner. Credit should be. given to both the previous Australian Government and the New South Wales Labour Government for what they did in relation to the development of open-cut coal-mining. Personally I am one of those people who believe that more attention should be paid to the development of deep-seam coal mines because deep-seam coal is of greater value to this country for industrial and domestic uses than is open-cut coal. I consider that Muswellbrook is probably the only open-cut seam in New South Wales that is of great value to industry. Most of our black-outs in New South. Wales are probably caused by the lack of sufficient deep-seam coal and by the use of opencut coal which will not do the necessary job. The mining of open-cut coal was originally an emergency measure only, and such coal should be used only in an emergency. The proportion of open-cut coal resources to the total coal resources of Australia is, as I have said, a negligible three per cent, and it should be used rather as a reserve for the future and not indiscriminately as it is at present. We should concentrate now on the development of the production of deep-seam coal. Had the production of coal in the past been carried out by the owners in cooperation with the Government, as al present it is carried out under the Joint Goal Board, there would not have been such a drift of men from the industry and mines would not have been closed without other mines having been opened to take their place. If care had been taken in these directions we should have an ample supply of experienced miners to-day to do the job that Australia requires them to do. I understand that in 1924 there were 24,000 miners on the New South “Wales coal-fields at a time when there was over-production of coal. To-day there are approximately 13,000 miners in New South Wales and under-production of coal. I repeat that had development of the Australian coal industry taken place with the fact in mind that coal is a national asset and. with a proper consideration of the welfare of the miners, the industry could have been made more attractive, as Labour governments have endeavoured to make it, and we should now have available the services of experienced miners for both open-cut and deep-seam coal mines. I was born in a coal-mining area and I have been down many coal mines. My brother, who. was a mine manager, was killed in a mining accident only a few years ago, and it rather hurts me to find a man with no experience of coal-mining coming into this chamber and accusing the NewSouth Wales Government of sabotage, when that Government at least had the welfare of this nation at heart when it established and continued to expand open-cutcoal mines as an emergency.

Debate interrupted under Standing Order 105.

Sitting suspended from12. 45 to 2.15 p.m.

page 4798

COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950

In committee (Consideration of Senate’s message) :

Clause 5 (Affiliated organizations may be declared unlawful).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 7 (vide page 4539), as amended by House of Representatives (vide page 4557), disagreed to.

Clause 9 (Declaration of Communists and members of unlawful associations).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 16 (vide page 4541 ) , as amended by House of Representatives (vide page 4548), disagreed to.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

– I move -

That the committee insists on the amendments made by the House to amendments Nos. 7 and16 of the Senate and which have been disagreed to by the Senate.

The committee now has before it a message from the Senate disagreeing to the amendments made in this place to the Senate amendments to the Communist Party Dissolution Bill 1950 and insisting on the Senate amendments disagreed to by the House. I do not propose to occupy the time of the committee by recommencing a debate, both sides of which are now perfectly well known. The Senate has stood firm on this matter and I have no doubt that this committee will stand firm on it also. Honorable members will, no doubt, have an opportunity in three months’ time of debating this matter again. In the meantime, the Communists will have three months of uninterrupted activity in Australia.

Dr EVATT:
Barton

– I think that I can make my point as short as that of the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies). The right honorable gentleman spoke about standing firm. In the view of the Opposition, there has been a full consideration of this bill in another place, but quite inadequate consideration has been given to it in this chamber where there has been no real attempt to debate essential clauses. The other night honorable members were limited to an entirely inadequate period in discussing these important matters. The Prime Minister has dealt with this matter in statements to. the press, and, no doubt, in statements to his own party, hut he has not, in detail, discussed it with the House, especially in committee, and he shows no inclination to come to any just conclusion. He has spoken of a period some months ahead. The answer to the right honorable gentleman’s argument is summed up excellently in the reasons of the Senate for disagreeing with the amendments of this House and for adhering to its attitude. Those reasons are contained in the document which is before honorable members of the committee. The first reason is as follows: -

Because the Senate amendments are designed solely for the purpose of providing adequate, proper and reasonable safeguards for securing the just and impartial administration of the proposed law in cases both of individuals and of organizations.

The Senate wants the administration of this law to be such that injustice will not occur. The second reason is-

Because the bill in the form passed as amended by the Senate will carry into effect the policy of suppressing the Australian Communist Party without unfairly and unjustly penalizing or endangering the civil rights and property of innocent citizens and innocent groups.

Last Thursday I asked the Government to have the bill printed in the form in which it was passed by the Senate. The Senate has made certain amendments and I wanted the House to read the bill in that form. It included the clauses which provided for the dissolution of the Communist party and which contained very stringent penal provisions. By adopting the motion before the committee honorable members will say that they do not approve of a bill which contains those provisions. Now the bill, as passed by the Senate, will therefore, to quote again - carry into effect the Government’s policy for suppressing the Australian Communist party without unfairly and unjustly penalizing or endangering the civil rights and property of innocent citizens and innocent groups.

If the Government will not permit the passing of the bill in the present form, it will indicate that it does not agree to the proposals of the Senate, which have the approval of His Majesty’s Opposition in this chamber. The third and last reason of the Senate for disagreeing with the amendments of the House of Representatives is -

Because without the amendments of the Senate the bill represents a complete departure from the appropriate and just processes For the administration of justice and is in conflict with the rule of law well established in all British communities.

I think that the people of Australia are gradually becoming aware that that is a great issue and I believe that when they know the full facts they will endorse the attitude of His Majesty’s Opposition.

Motion (by Mr. Beale) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 62

NOES: 32

Majority . . 30

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question put -

That the committee insists on the amendmests made by the House to amendments Nos. 7 and 16 of the Senate and which have been disagreed to by the Senate.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 63

NOES: 33

Majority . . . . 30

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Clause 3 (Definitions).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 2 (vide page 4539) and amendment No. 3 (vide page 1639) insisted on.

Clause 5 ( Affiliated organizations may be declared unlawful).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 6 (videpage 4539 ) insisted on.

Clause 6 (Unlawful associations tobe dissolved).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 8 (videpage 4540) insisted on.

Clause 7 (Officers and members of unlawful associations to cease to act).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 10 (videpage 4540 ) insisted on.

Clause 8 (Property of unlawful associations to vest in receiver).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 11 (videpage 4540) insisted on.

Clause 9 (Declaration of Communists and members of unlawful associations)

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 15 (vide page 4541 ) insisted on.

Clause 11 (Disqualified persons to vacate office).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 17 (videpage 454.1 ) insisted on.

Clause 22 (Jurisdiction of High Court and Supreme Courts).

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 20 (vide page 4542), amendment No. 21 (vide page- 4542) and amendment No. 22 (vide page- 4542 insisted on.

New clause 24a.

Senate’s message. - Amendment No. 28 (videpage 4543) insisted on.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

– I move -

That the committee insists on disagreeing to amendments by the Senate Nos. 2, 3, 6, 8, 10,. 11, . 15, 17, 20, 21, 22 and 28 insisted on by the Senate.

This motion covers the amendments dealt with other than amendments Nos. 7 and 16, in other words all the amendments other than those to clauses 5 and 9 of the bill. The issue is very clear. During the general election campaign honorable members on this side of the committee sponsored in precise terms a ban upon the Communist party, the pursuit of the Communist party into its other forms, and the disqualification of Communists of a certain description from certain employments. Each of those matters was opposed with great vigour during the general election campaign by every honorable member on the other side of the committee. But during the course of the two months that this legislation has been before the Parliament, honorable members opposite have professed to support those very matters. They have now shown quite clearly, by the amendments that have been put forward by their majority in another place, that their idea is not to destroy this bill by a frontal attack, but to destroy it by a. sapping and mining operation. The Government will be delighted to join issue with the Opposition on this matter. Indeed, it becomes more and more clear that the major parliamentary business of this year is to decide who is to have charge of the government of the country. Is it to be those who were returned with a majority on the 10th December last, or those who, having been defeated on that day, now use their majority in another place to destroy vital legislation?

Dr EVATT:
Barton

.–I agree with the Prime Minister on one point only. That is that the issue is now very clear. I have followed carefully his references to the policy speech of the Government parties. It is true that the Prime Minister foreshadowed a ban on the Communist party of Australia, but apparently the Government does not now desire simply that. Such a ban is contained in this bill which the committee is in fact now throwing under the table. It is contained in an absolute form in the bill as amended by the Senate.

Government members interjecting,

Dr EVATT:

– I do not know which honorable gentleman on the front bench or the second bench on the Government side, said “ nonsense “, but I suggest that my conclusion is absolutely correct. Clause 4 of the bill provides for the banning of the Communist party, and the machinery clauses make disobedience of the injunction an offence punishable by imprisonment for five years. The Government is tearing up that clause, which contains the main feature of the policy speech. With regard to the Government’s so-called “ pursuit “ of the Communist party into its other forms, the bill now contains provisions for that also. It includes references to organizations, and to the expropriation of their property without compensation subject to certain conditions. It also provides for the prohibition of the employment of selected Communists in .positions in the trades unions and in the Commonwealth Public Service. But, safeguards are provided which enable organizations anc! groups, which are innocent and not intended to be covered even by the Government’s bill, to take advantage of the ordinary forms and processes of law. The .Senate is insisting upon what is called “ the rule of law,” but what is also in fact a rule of ordinary plain justice. I submit that the Senate is quite correct in so insisting.

Two further matters were mentioned by the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) in his policy speech. The first was that the Executive determination in these great matters was to be, in his own words, “ subject to appeal “. The Senate has made provision for a full appeal. The Government in this House has denied such appeal. The second was an undertaking by the Government to strengthen the existing laws relating to sedition, if such action was found to be necessary. On that matter nothing has been heard from the Government. Those points are summed up by my earlier quotations from the Senate’s reasons. I believe those reasons are correct. The Government is denying the safeguards of justice and the ordinary rights of citizenship to persons against whom the imputation will be made that they are of a seditious character and tendency, and who by the declaration of the Executive will be deprived of their employment and irretrievably injured in their status in the community, such a Government is courting its own downfall.

Motion (by Mr. Beale) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. E. Adermann.)

AYES: 64

NOES: 33

Majority . . 31

In division:

AYES

NOES

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order! The honorable member must not read a newspaper in the chamber.

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question put -

That the committee insists on disagreeing to the amendments Nos. 2, 3, C, 8, 10,11, 15, 17, 20, 21, 22 and 28 insisted on by the Senate.

The committee divided. (The Chairman - Mr. C. E. Adermann.)

AYES: 64

NOES: 33

Majority . . . . 31

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Resolutions reported.

Motion (by Mr. Menzies) put -

That the report be adopted.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 67

NOES: 33

Majority . . . . 34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 4803

QUESTION

MR. E. J. WARD, M.P

Mr SPEAKER:

-(Hon. Archie Cameron). - I wish to report to the House’ that I have seen and spoken to, within the precincts of the House, the honorable member for -East Sydney (Mr. Ward), who last night was ordered to remove himself from the precincts of the House until nine minutes past 9 o’clock to-night. I propose to deal with the honorable member at the earliest opportunity, and I point out that we have the right to ask the Serjeant-at-Arms to produce him at the bar of the House.

Mr Calwell:

– Under what standing order?

Mr SPEAKER:

– Under Standing Order 307.

Mr Chifley:

– I rise to order. I am bound to say, Mr. Speaker, that your announcement is the most extraordinary that has ever been made in this House. I am not able to find any authority that supports the action of Mr. Speaker in denying to an honorable member who has been suspended from the service of the House the use of the facilities that are associated with the Parliament. It seems to me that the authority of Mr. Speaker ceases with the conduct of the proceedings of the House, and at the immediate entrances to the chamber. I am unable to discover any standing order, whether it be Standing Order 301, 302, 303 or 307, that supports your action. You have said that you base your decision upon Standing Order 307. It seems to me most extraordinary to say that that standing order gives to Mr. Speaker the power to tell an honorable member that he cannot go into the refreshment-rooms or to the post office, or to have a meal in the diningroom.

– Not one honorable member took a point of order or objected to your ruling at that time. Therefore, I submit that, in following the procedure of the House of Commons, you are acting strictly in accordance with the powers of your office.

page 4804

OBJECTION TO RULING

Suspension of Member

Mr CHIFLEY:
Leader of the Opposition · Macquarie

– I move -

That the House dissents from the ruling of Mr. Speaker relating to the effect of the suspension from the service of the House of the honorable member for East Sydney, and, in particular, in holding that an honorable member suspended from the service of the House is not entitled to use the ordinary facilities available to all honorable members outside this chamber.

I have only to say that the ruling which Mr. Speaker has given in relation to an honorable member who is suspended from the service of the House is, in my opinion, a. completely harsh, brutal and unjust decision.

Mr Beale:

– Shame! Did the right honorable gentleman hear what the honorable member for East Sydney said last night?

Mr CHIFLEY:

– I have been a member of this House for a longer period than has the Minister for Supply (Mr. Beale), and I have known Speakers who have enforced strict discipline, and the observance of the Standing Orders, but I have not encountered a decision of this kind. The Speakers in the past have been drawn from various political parties, and they have been men of different temperaments, but they have not deprived an honorable member who has been suspended from the service of the House of the facilities that are associated with this building. I remind you, Mr. Speaker, that Parliament House in Canberra is isolated to some degree. Honorable members are living away from their homes, and perhaps in nothing like the same circumstances as those in which they would live in a city. You have ruled that an honorable member who has been suspended from the service of the House shall not be permitted to go into the refreshmentroom or the library, or to the post office.

Mr Beale:

– An honorable member who has been suspended from the service of the House may go back to his hotel.

Mr CHIFLEY:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-I do not think that a more stupid remark than that could be made. I suppose, for that matter, that an honorable member could also stand out on the King George V. Memorial in front of Parliament House.

Mr KEKWICK:
BASS, TASMANIA · LP

– That is a really stupid remark.

Mr CHIFLEY:

-I did not say that an honorable member would not be permitted to return to his hotel, and I did not mean to convey that impression. I defy anybody to quote a standing order that empowers the Speaker to rule that an honorable member, who has been suspended from the service of the House, shall not have access to the facilities of this building. Standing Order 307, on which you, Mr. Speaker, have based your ruling, makes no reference to that matter. Your decision is a complete departure from parliamentary custom and practice, and I consider that it is completely wrong.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Is the motion seconded ?

Dr EVATT:
Barton

.- I second the motion.

Mr SPEAKER:

– It must be handed to me in writing.

Mr CALWELL:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

– I guarantee that it is in order.

Mr. Chifley having submitted, in writing, his objection to the ruling,

Dr EVATT:

– I submit, at the outset, that the Postmaster-General (Mr. Anthony) based his statements in support of Mr. Speaker’s ruling on inaccurate premises. The Votes and Proceedings of the Souse of Representatives, of the 21st June, are quite clear on the point. They read -

Mr. Speaker thereupon put the question that the honorable member for East Sydney be suspended from the service of the House.

– Tes. Dealing with the rules of the House of Commons pertaining to “ Suspension, withdrawal and exclusion from precincts May’s Parliamentary Practice states -

Members ordered to withdraw from the House in pursuance of S.O. No. 19 or suspended from the service of the House in pursuance of S.O. No. 17 - must withdraw forthwith from the precincts of the House that is, from the area within the walls of the palace of Westminster.

As some honorable members may ask what the terms of the two standing orders are, I shall read them. Standing Order 19 reads -

Mr. Speaker or the chairman shall order Members whose conduct is grossly disorderly to withdraw immediately from the House during the remainder of that day’s sitting; and the Serjeant at Arms shall act on such orders as lie may receive from the chair in pursuance of this resolution.

Standing Order 17 reads -

Whenever any Member shall have been named by Mr. Speaker, or by the chairman immediately after the commission of the offence of disregarding the authority of the chair, or of abusing the rules of the House by persistently and wilfully obstructing the business of the House, or otherwise, then, if the offence has been committed by such Member in the House, Mr. Speaker shall forthwith put the rj nest ion, on a motion being made, -no Amendment, adjournment, or debate being allowed, “ That such Member be suspended from the service of the House”; and, if the offence has been committed in a committee of the whole House, the chairman shall forthwith suspend the proceedings of the committee and report the circumstance to the House; and Mr. Speaker shall, on a motion being made thereupon, put the same question, without amendment, adjournment, or debate, as if the offence had been committed in the House itself.

I submit that those two standing orders apply directly to the case which we are now considering. As I have already said, it has been the practice of this House where our Standing Orders do not’ expressly provide for circumstances that arise to apply the rules of the House of Commons. The quotation from. May does not refer, as the right honorable member for Barton has submitted, to the area of the chamber only. The meaning of it is that a member who has been suspended can be ordered to withdraw from the building itself. Last night, Mr. Speaker, you exercised the powers conferred upon you by this House in a certain way, and before the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) left the chamber you expressly stated just what would ‘be required of him under the order of suspension that had been made by the House. I submit that the honorable member is grossly defying your order in an attempt to test the power and authority of the Chair. I shall support anything that the Chair may see fit to do in order to uphold the authority conferred upon it by the House and in accordance with the practices of the Mother of Parliaments.

Mr POLLARD:
Lalor

– I am aware that, where the Standing Orders are not explicit with respect to matters of procedure, it has been the practice of the House to follow the practices of the House of Commons. However, I am more concerned with matters which are not expressly covered by the Standing Orders, but in respect to which this Parliament has established its own precedents. I have had the experience of having been suspended from the service of the House but although the chair was occupied at that time by Mr. Speaker Bell, who was rigid but extremely just, I was never excluded from my party room, the billiard room or the refreshmentrooms. I recollect that you, Mr. Speaker, when you were a Minister in the Lyons Administration, were adjudged guilty by the House of some misdemeanour - I do not know whether you were actually guilty - but you were not deprived of the right of access to the corridors, your party room or the refreshmentrooms. I can recall only one occasion on which an honorable member was excluded from the precincts of the building, and I understand that he had been adjudged guilty of committing a misdemeanour outside the precincts of the chamber. During the thirteen years that I have been a member of the Parliament, the House, itself, has created its own precedents. Previously, no member who has been suspended from the service of the House has been deprived of the ordinary facilities that are available to honorable members. He has been excluded from the chamber only. That precedent is a better guide for us to follow on this occasion than is some hoary, outmoded practice that is observed in the Palace of Westminster. Surely, we have reached a stage in the history of this Parliament when we should act according to our judgment. It is unfortunate that you, Mr. Speaker, in your official capacity, are not aware of the circumstances of the incident that has given rise to this discussion. I believe that you should be acquainted with the facts of the matter. The honorable member for East Sydney, as a number of other honorable members, including myself, have done, flagrantly disobeyed the Chair; but the Chairman of Committees, himself, acknowledged that the honorable member had acted under grave provocation. At the same time, the honorable member who provoked him has not been dealt with.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member cannot refer to what took place in the committee. The Chair has no knowledge of what took place in the committee.

Motion (by Mr. Fadden) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 67

NOES: 33

Majority . . 34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question put -

That the House dissents from the ruling of Mr. Speaker relating to the effect of the suspension from the service of the House of the honorable member for East Sydney, and, in particular, in holding that an honorable member suspended from the service of the House is not entitled to use the ordinary facilities available toall honorable members outside this chamber.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 33

NOES: 67

Majority … 34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

page 4809

COMMONWEALTH BANK. BILL 1950

Bill returned from the .Senate with amendments.

In committee (Consideration of Senate’s amendments) :

Clause 4 (Parts)-

Senate’s Amendment No. 1. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 5 (Definitions) -

Senate’s Amendment No. 2. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 6 (Heading to Part II.) -

Senate’s Amendment No. 3. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 7 (Establishment and functions of Commonwealth Bank Board, &c.) -

Senate’s Amendment No. 4. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 8 (Profits and Reserve Fund) -

Senate’s Amendments Nos. 5 ‘and 6. - Leave out “Board”, insert “Bank” (twice occurring) .

Clause 10 (Membership of Board, &c.)-

Senate’s Amendment No. 7. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 15 (Management of Savings Bank)-

Senate’s Amendment No. 8. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 16 (Validity of certain acts of Bank and Savings Bank) -

Senate’s Amendment No. 9. - Leave out the clause.

Clause 17 (Consequential amendments) -

Senate’s Amendment No. 10. - Leave out the clause.

Schedule -

Senate’s Amendment No. 11. - Leave out the schedule.

Motion (by Mr. Fadden) proposed -

That the amendments be disagreed to.

The Labour party desires to protect the people’s savings and the people’s bank. We do not want the Commonwealth Bank to become in part a banker’s bank; we want it always to be a people’s bank. I accuse the Government of dishonesty in its intentions, because it has said that the proposed board will have five public servants and five members appointed from outside the Public Service, whereas the relevant clause is so worded that seven outsiders and only three public servants could and might be appointed to the board. The clause states -

The Commonwealth Bank Board shall consist of - seven other members, who shall be appointed by the Governor-General . . .

Of the seven members appointed . . . at least five shall be persons who are not officers of the Bank or the Public Service of the Commonwealth.

We have been told that two public servants, Professor Melville and Dr. Roland Wilson, are to be appointed, but they can be removed at any time. They are not to be appointed for terms of years as will be the outsiders who are to be appointed. They could be appointed on oneday and removed on the following day. They could he like some of those Yankee bankers of the last century - here to-day and gone tomorrow. They could be appointed for a week or a month or six months and then removed, and outsiders could be appointed in their places for a term of seven years. I believe that that is what the Government intended to do if it could have persuaded the Senate to pass the legislation without alteration. I believe that its motives are dishonest and that instead of having a board composed of five persons associated with the bank or the Treasury and five outsiders, it will have seven outsiders and three other persons associated with the . bank or the Public Service, one of whom would he the Governor of the bank, another the Deputy Governor and the third the Secretary to the Treasury. The Government seems to have adopted a dishonest way of stating the position to the public. We do not desire to have a board of seven outsiders interfering with the activities of the people’s bank. Would the Government agree to the passage of legislation to empower the government of the day to appoint half of the directors of private banks from outside the list of shareholders of those banks? Would it care to appoint the directors of private banks, public servants or representatives of trade unions or persons not associated with the money-making machinery of this country? Of course it would not. But it desires to maul the people’s bank and to bring in outsiders to control the activities of the bank who will be more concerned with the protection of their own private interests than with the protection of a public institution. At least that was the experience that we had with the former bank board. I do not blame a man who has big financial interests and who becomes a member of the Commonwealth Bank Board for putting his own interests first. That is human nature. But I do not want such a man to be subjected to any such temptation in future and for that reason. I consider that the amendments made by the Senate are perfectly valid and good and that if the Government is wise it will accept them. I do not believe that if the Government persists in its move to reject the Senate’s amendments it will ever see the day when it will be able to announce to the Parliament that it has appointed outsiders to the board to do the harm that we believe would be done, either in great or small degree, once such people were appointed to control, or partly control, this great socialistic undertaking that the Labour party established.

Mr JEFF BATE:
Macarthur

– The Labour party has a fanatical objection to the appointment of a board to control the Commonwealth Bank. Honorable members on this side of the House have just as fanatical an objection to the control of the bank by a single public servant or an economist or any person who has not had any experience of outside life and conditions and would so be unable to take a lay view of financial matters. During the general election campaign we fought against the idea that one man should have a dictatorship over banking in this country and that economists should control our banking. We received a mandate to do what we are now doing in the re-establishment of a bank board. We have authority which justifies board control in the report of the Royal Commission on Monetary and Banking Systems that sat in 1935-36. The commission found that a board consisting of a chairman, a deputy chairman and six or seven or five or six men should control the bank. The present Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Chifley) was a member of that commission. He was appointed as a lay member. He made a very lengthy dissent from its findings. His dissent gave him an opportunity to say that he did not agree with the board system but it contains no reference or objection to the board or to a number of men of repute or standing conducting the affairs of the bank. In fact, I think that he mentioned in his dissent that men of good standing should control the bank. He did not at any point say that he objected to a board having control of a bank, and that fact must lead us to one conclusion only, which is that at that time the right honorable member agreed with the proposition that a board should control the bank. I agree, as other honorable members and the people outside surely agree, that the committee system in this country is acknowledged to be the best system for running a business.

Under that system decisions are made after discussions during which different points of view have been thrashed out. We object strongly to the idea that one man alone can make decisions in a closed room without having to give reasons for them. If the Leader of the Opposition has changed his view, since he was a member of the royal commission that I have mentioned, that a board was the correct way of conducting the Commonwealth Bank then it is probable that some of the other findings of that commission are wrong and it might now be a good time to have another royal commission of a similar nature. It is possible that the great changes that occurred in this country during the war make it necessary to hold another inquiry into monetary and banking systems in order to decide which is the best means of control of the Commonwealth Bank. I cannot bring myself to believe that unless the right honorable gentleman has changed his mind completely in the last fifteen years regarding the advisability of the board system that he is in earnest in opposing its proposed re-establishment, now. Only a very great change in his views could make it possible for him to do so sincerely. If he is correct in believing that a different system should be adopted now, then it is time that we examined the whole of the banking system in the light of the situation, as it is to-day. It is wrong for the right honorable gentleman to lead his party into the idea that the board system is unsatisfactory when fifteen years ago he agreed with it. Unless conditions have changed greatly since then, it is humbug and hypocrisy for him to do so.

Mr ROSEVEAR:
Dalley

.- Very useful suggestions have been made by the Senate for the improvement of this bill. As the committee is considering the bill in globo I propose to deal more particularly with the question of the proposed Commonwealth Bank Board because I think that that is the kernal of the nut and the point of contention between us. I could understand the desire of the Government, to appoint a bank board if the present control of the Commonwealth Bank had failed or had showed signs of failing, but I think that every fair-minded man, whether he is opposed to nationalized banks or not, will admit that the Commonwealth Bank did a marvellous job of work during the war and before it. Under the most trying circumstances it did a marvellous job in financing Australia’s war effort and the great industrial effort behind the war effort. If Government members could point out any detail in which the bank failed this country during that most critical time in its history I could understand their anxiety to alter the system of control of the bank. It would be a very laudable objective because it would not be wise for the Government to stake its future on a financial institution if, in the Opinion of the Government, that institution had failed in its duty.

It is just as well to examine the composition of the board which the Government proposes to establish. It is proposed that the board shall include the Governor, the Deputy Governor of the bank and the Secretary of the Department oi” the Treasury. I understand that those gentlemen are at present acting in an advisory capacity. It is proposed that the board shall include seven other members who shall be appointed by the Governor-General “ in accordance with the succeeding provisions of this section “. The bill provides that -

Of the seven members appointed under paragraph (d) of the last preceding sub-section, at least five shall he persons who are not officers of the bank or the Public Service of the Commonwealth.

Under that proposal, five people who will be drawn from outside the service of the bank and from outside the Public Service will be “ make weights “ on the board. I was rather interested when this bill was previously before the House to hear the ex-Treasurer, the present Minister for National Development (Mr. Casey), talk about these five people who are just going to be picked off the street in a haphazard sort of way. It is not intended that they shall be people with any knowledge of banking or that they shall have any connexion with banking. In the Minis.ler s own words, they are to be five people who will be “picked off the street “. If that is really the intention of the Government how does it think it will perform any useful service for the country by putting on the bank board five noodles who have been picked off the street and who have no knowledge of banking? Does the Minister think that the Government will strengthen the board or the administration of the bank by putting such “make weights “ on the board ? If the Government did such a thing it would be failing in its duty to the people and to the bank itself. I do not believe that the Government will do that. I merely repeat what was said by the Minister for National Development. I have a vivid recollection that a gentleman resigned from a prominent private bank in order to accept a position on the previous Commonwealth Bank Board and after he had been displaced from the Commonwealth Bank Board he immediately went back to the private bank from which he had come in the first place. It was obvious that he had merely been released from service with the private bank for the period during which he was a member of the Commonwealth Bank Board. A person of average intelligence could see that that man never entirely dissociated himself from the interests, that he was serving prior to his acceptance of a position on the Commonwealth Bank Board.

The honorable member for Melbourne (Mr. Calwell) has already said, and I agree, that this bill does not represent all that the private bankers want but I think that it is all the Government has the courage to give them in return for the very substantial contributions that they made to the Government parties during the general election campaign. I do not believe that the private banks will be entirely satisfied with the Government’s proposals but I do believe that, in the hands of a Government which is determined to shackle the activities of the Commonwealth Bank, this loophole clause will provide the opportunity of removing from the board anybody who does not meet with their requirements. That provision does not apply to the five people who are to be taken off the street. I am satisfied that the Government has inserted this clause as a safety valve in case the bank board is not prepared to do exactly as the private banks will require it to do. I strongly support the amendments which have been made to the bill in another place. The Senate has performed a very statesmanlike function in dealing as it has done with this bill. I am pleased to be able to voice my opinion in support of the amendments that have been made by the Senate and I hope that honorable members will have sufficient intelligence to adopt them.

Question put -

That theamendments be disagreed to.

The committee divided. (The Chairman -Mr. C. F. Adermann. )

AYES: 64

NOES: 31

Majority . . . . 33

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Motion (by Mr. Fadden) put

That the resolution be reported.

The committee divided. (The Chairman -Mr. C. F. Adermann.)

AYES: 65

NOES: 33

Majority . . 32

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported; report adopted.

That Mr. Spender, Mr. Francis and the mover be appointeda committee to draw up reasons for the House of Representatives disagreeing to the amendments of the Senate.

Mr FADDEN:
Treasurer · McPherson · CP

– On behalf of the committee I bring up the following reasons : -

Reasons of the House of Representatives for disagreeing to the amendments of the Senate.

The amendments would defeat the following principles for the establishment of which the Government obtained approval at the last general election: -

Collective responsibility for the determination of policy should be restored . by the re-establishment of a board comprising men of wide knowledge and experience, which would ensure the integration of the policy of the bank with economic and financial policy generally, without impairing the independence of the bank.

The ultimate responsibility for monetary and banking policy should lie with the Parliament while preserving an effective working relationship between the Government and the bank.

I move -

That the committee’s reasons toe adopted.

Mr CHIFLEY:
Leader of the Opposition · Macquarie

– The reasons advanced by the committee are completely empty and mean nothing at all. Of course the Treasurer (Mr. Fadden) has to conform with the procedure of the House and present something, hut there is no sub-‘ stance in either of the points raised. Nobody in this country can indicate anything that is wrong with the management of the Commonwealth Bank or can say that it has not fully discharged the duties placed upon it. It is recognized that the conduct of the Commonwealth Bank, under the present system, has never been better. Thebank is administered far more efficiently tinder the present system than it was administeredby a bank hoard. The reasons presentedby the Treasurer make no appeal to the Opposition. With regard to collective responsibility and the necessity for obtaining people of wide knowledge and experience, surely nobody suggests that men canbe gathered together in this country to control the hank whose ability is even equal to that of the present members of the Advisory Council. There is no man in public life or in professional life with a wider knowledge of the subject with which he deals than is the present Governor of the hank, Dr. Coombs.

I repeat emphatically that no organization could manage the Commonwealth Bank much better than it is managed to-day. Even the Treasurer has admitted that one of the faults of the former Commonwealth Bank Board lay in the fact that the Governor of the bank was not the chairman of the board. I believe that no national institution of the nature of the Commonwealth Bank, which deals with national finance, should have associated with its management anybody who has private interests in business.

Mr Anthony:

– Does the right honorable gentleman deny that the Government has a mandate to do what it is doing?

Mr CHIFLEY:

– If a political party includes half a dozen or twenty proposals in its declaration of policy in an election campaign and is elected to power on the strength of one of those proposals, it does not necessarily have a mandate for everything stated in its policy declaration. The Government may have received a mandate for the appointment of a small board to control the Commonwealth Bank, but it is not attempting to establish a small board. On no account will the Labour party ever agree that individuals who have private interests in business should be associated with a great national institution such as the Commonwealth Bank. That expresses without any embellishment the principle for which we stand. “We consider that the national responsibility that rests upon the Commonwealth Bank is so great that the Government should not take the risk of appointing to its management persons of the kind that I have mentioned. Everybody is human, and it would be very difficult for a man with private financial interests not to take advantage of inside information that he might obtain if he were a member of a board in control of the Commonwealth Bank. He might obtain special information about such matters as the recent depreciation of the £1, for instance. The Commonwealth Bank is supplied with confidential information by the Bank of England and other national banks and by the chancellors and treasurers of foreign governments. Private business men would be almost superhuman if they were not unconsciously influenced - I do not cast any reflections upon their honesty - by the knowledge that they might obtain as members of a Commonwealth Bank Board.

The whole principle of the Government’s proposal is wrong. It cannot be justified by any experience under the present administration of the Commonwealth Bank. I believe that, as time passes, the views of the Opposition will gain increasing support from the events that will occur in other countries. The Treasurer mentioned a number of governments that had established central banks and referred to the system of management that had been adopted for those institutions. I have had an opportunity to make inquiries since then, and I have ascertained that nobody with private financial interests is concerned, for instance, with the management of the central Bank of Ceylon, the most recently established central reserve bank. On principle, no man with private business interests should be associated with the administration of a great national institution upon which the. economic stability of the nation depends to some degree. Therefore the Opposition is totally opposed to the proposal.

Motion (by Mr. Fadden) agreed to -

That the question be now put.

Question put -

That the committee’s reasons be adopted.

The House divided. (Me. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.) Ayes . . . . . . 66

AYES: 0

NOES: 32

Majority . . 34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 4818

SOCIAL SERVICES. CONSOLIDATION BILL 1950

Bill returned from the Senate with the following message: -

The Senate returns to the House of Representatives the bill for “ An Act to amend the provisions of the ‘ Social Services Consolidation Act 1947-49’ relating to Child Endowment and acquaints the House that the Senate insists on disagreeing to amendment No. .1 insisted on by the House of Representatives, as indicated in the annexed schedule and for the reason shown therein, and requests the House to grant a conference on such amendment. In the event of a conference being agreed to, the Senate will be represented at the conference by five managers.

The Senate does not insist on its disagreement to amendments Nos. 2, 3 and 4 of the House of Representatives.

Mr SPENDER:
Minister for External Affairs and Minister for External Territories · Warringah · LP

– I move -

That the request of the Senate for a conference be disagreed to and that the Senate be requested to reconsider the bill in respect of amendment No. 1 made by the House of Representatives on which the Senate insists on disagreeing.

I do not propose to speak at any length upon this motion; I shall merely remind the House of what has taken place. It was made quite clear in this House in the first place that the Government proposed to provide for the payment of endowment for the first child in every family at the rate of 5s. a week. We introduced a measure which, in accordance with the practice to which we are becoming accustomed in this Parliament, was altered in the Senate. It is well that I should remind the people of precisely what has taken place, so that they may evaluate the conduct of the Opposition.

During the last general election campaign, the payment of endowment at the rate of 5s. a week for the first child of a family under the age of sixteen years was a cardinal plank in the platform of the Liberal party and the Australian Country party. The Labour Government had resisted our attempts, when we were in Opposition in this House, to secure the payment of endowment for the first child, and it renewed its hostility to the proposal during that campaign. After the introduction of this bill, the Labour party exhibited a strange change of front. Prom having been bitterly opposed to any suggestion for paying endowment for the first child, it sought to increase the amount from 5s. to 10s. a week. An amendment to that effect, which was made by the Labour majority in the Senate, was rejected by the Government in this House. The Government is determined to be the master of its own business. It restored the amount to 5s. in conformity with its undertaking to the people. The Senate, after having declared that it would not recede from its original position, has retreated from it, and has endeavoured, in accordance with the tawdry party political tactics in which the Opposition has engaged, to reduce this chamber to a farce and to determine what the legislation of the country shall be. Labour senators know that, if they refuse to accept the will of this House upon this monwealth Bank. That express’s the principle for which we stand without any embellishment. We consider that the matter, they will torpedo the bill, and they must bear the responsibility if endowment is not paid for the first child.

Mr CALWELL:
Melbourne

.- It is now abundantly clear that the Government, by pressing on with this measure, wishes that the payment of endowment at the rate of 5s. a week for the first child of a family under the age of sixteen years will adversely affect the basic wage.

Government Members. - That is not true.

Mr CALWELL:

– It is abundantly clear. If tie Government did not wish the payment of endowment for the first child to affect the basic wage, it would throw the bill under the table at this stage. But it proposes to return the measure to the Senate in order to try to persuade that chamber to withdraw from the position that it took up when it inserted amendments for the purpose of ensuring that the basic wage should not be affected by the payment of endowment for the first child. The Senate has withdrawn its objection to the decision of the Government that the amount of the weekly payment shall be 5s. It has withdrawn temporarily from the position that it took up when it endeavoured to obtain for the mothers of Australia endowment of 10s. a week in respect of the first child under the age of sixteen years, but it insists, at this stage, that the payment of 5s. a week shall not be taken into consideration by the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Court when determining the basic wage. In the amendments that it has made to the bill, the Senate says, in effect, two things: First, there should be a direction to the Commonwealth Arbitration Court not to take the payment of 5s. a week for the first child into consideration when it is computing the basic wage. Secondly, there shall be a declaration that, in the opinion of the Parliament, the payment of endowment for the first child should not be taken into consideration by the court in calculating the basic wage.

– The Government is not frank when it says that it wishes the Senate to give expression to the will of the people. It is not frank when it says that the protection that is given in this bill to the basic wage will invalidate the measure if it is challenged in the High Court of Australia. Surely I am entitled to make those statements. I have stated what I believe to be the expression of the will of the people on this matter, and I have said what I believe to be the right thing in connexion with this measure. I ask the Minister for External Affairs not to be precipitate and stubborn about the matter, and I advise him to do one of two things, namely accept the amendment or throw thebill underthe table.That would be a much more honest attitude for theGovernment to adopt.

Motion (by Mr. Spender) put-

That the question be now put.

The House divided. ( Mr Speaker- Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 65

NOES: 31

Majority .. ..34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question put-

That the motion (vide page 4818),be agreed to.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker- Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 65

NOES: 31

Majority ……. 34

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 4821

TARIFF BOARD BILL 1950

Debate resumed from the 21st June (vide page 4687), on motion by Mr. McBride -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr TOM BURKE:
Perth

.- This measure alters the basis of the remuneration of the chairman and other members of the Tariff Board and also abolishes the position of Director of Economic Research that was established under the principal act. The Opposition supports both those proposals. Incidentally, although the position to he abolished was established in 1929, it has never been filled. The Minister for the Interior (Mr. McBride), in his second-reading speech, pointed out that it is vital that adequate salaries be paid to members of government instrumentalities such as the Tariff Board. The Opposition agrees wholeheartedly with that sentiment. However, during the last few years, when supporters of the Government were in Opposition, they constantly criticized the Public Service. They described public servants as bureaucrats who, they said, dominated the government of the day and ordered the community round. Such statements were indicative of the irresponsibility of the Opposition of that day. I believe that at that time honorable members opposite realized, as they do now, that the Public Service renders a signal service to the people and to the Parliament. This measure indicates that the Government is prepared to pay salaries to public servants comparable with those obtainable in employment outside the service. Many public servants who give long years - indeed, a lifetime - in the Public Service, are not paid salaries comparable with those they could obtain in outside employment. The Government is also prepared to provide greater security of tenure for public servants. That is a step in the right direction; and that principle has special application in. respect of members of a body such as the Tariff Board.

Since federation Australia’s protectionist policy has not been seriously challenged. Any arguments that have arisen have related to the degree rather than the principle of protection. The Tariff Board was established and given the high and responsible task of recommending to the Parliament whether tariff duties should be levied, what rates of duties should be imposed and whether any items should be subsequently exempted from duty. The recognition of the great influence of the board’s decisions on the future industrial development of Australia is timely.For the reasons I have stated we endorse the proposition that has been advanced by the Minister. It constitutes a somewhat belated attempt on the part of the Government to recognize the fact that our public servants are rendering a great service to the people and that if they are to remain in the service of the Commonwealth and resist the attraction of higher paid posts offered by outside industry they must be paid adequate salaries.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill -by leave - read a third time.

Sitting suspended from 5.18 to 12.57 a.m. (Friday).

Friday, 23 June 1950

page 4822

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate : -

Without requests -

Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 1949-50.

Supply Bill (No. 1) 1950-51.

Supplementary Appropriation Bill 1948-49.

Without amendment -

Appropriation (Works and Services) Bill (No. 2) 1949-50.

Supplementary Appropriation (Works and Services) Bill 1948-49.

Supply (Works and Services) Bill (No. 1) 1950-51.

Tariff Board Bill 1950.

page 4822

COMMUNIST PARTY DISSOLUTION BILL 1950

Mr SPEAKER:

-(Hon. Archie Cameron). - I have received the following message from the Senate : -

The Senate returns to the House of Representatives the hill for “ An Act to provide for the Dissolution of the Australian Communist Party and of other Communist Organizations, to disqualify Communists from holding certain Offices, and for purposes connected therewith “, and acquaints the House that the Senate insists on disagreeing to the amendments made by the House of Representatives on amendments Nos. 7 and16 of the Senate, as shown in Schedule A annexed. The Senate still insists on its amendments Nos. 2, 3, 6, 8, 10, 11, 15, 17. 20, 21, 22 and 28 to which the House has insisted on disagreeing, as shown in Schedule B annexed.

The Senate desires the reconsideration by the House of Representatives of the bill in respect of such amendments.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

– The procedure laid down in the Standing Orders having produced a complete disagreement on this measure, I move -

That the bill be laid aside.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 4823

COMMONWEALTH BANK BILL 1950

Mr SPEAKER:

– (Hon. Archie Cameron). - I have received the following message from the Senate :

The Senate returns to the House of Representatives the hill for “ An Act to repeal the Banking Act 1947-1948 ‘ and to amend the Commonwealth Bank Act 1945-1948 ‘ “, and acquaints the House that the Senate insists on its amendments disagreed to by the House of Representatives, for the reason shown in the annexed schedule.

The Senate desires the reconsideration by the House of Representatives of the bill in respect of such amendments.

Motion (by Mr. Menzies) put -

That the House insists on disagreeing to the amendments (vide page 4809), insisted on by the Senate.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 62

NOES: 31

Majority . . . . 31

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 4823

SOCIAL SERVICES CONSOLIDATION BILL 1950

Mr SPEAKER:

– (Hon. Archie Cameron) . - I have received the following message from the Senate: -

The Senate returns to the House of Representatives the bill for “ An Act to amend the provisions of the ‘ Social Services Consolidation Act 1947-1949’ relating to Child Endowment”, and acquaints the House that the Senate has agreed to amendment No. 1 of the House of Representatives, and made a consequential amendment in clause 2, as shown in the annexed Schedule.

The Senate desires the concurrence of the House of Representatives in the consequential amendment in clause 2.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

– The amendment made by the Senate is a consequential amendment having regard to the date on which the bill is being passed. The bill was expressed, in clause 2, to commence on the 19th June. As the 19th J une has now passed, it became necessary to alter the word “ shall “ to the words “be deemed to have commenced on 19th “. That amendment has been made so that calculations may be made as from the following day. I move -

That the consequential amendment made by the Senate (vide page 4770) be agreed to.

Mr CHIFLEY:
Leader of the Opposition · Macquarie

– I take it that I may, at this stage, make reference to the general provisions of the message from the Senate.

Mr SPEAKER:

– That would not be in order.

Mr CHIFLEY:

– At what stage do you rule, Mr. Speaker, that some comments might be made on the general terms of the message?

Mr SPEAKER:

– The only matter before the House at present is the acceptance or otherwise of the consequential amendment made by the Senate.

Mr CHIFLEY:

– That being so I ask for leave to make a few short remarks with regard to the general terms of the message.

Government Supporters. - No.

Leave not granted.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The question is that the motion of the Prime Minister be agreed to.

Opposition members interjecting,

Mr SPEAKER:

– Is a division called for?

Opposition Members. - Yes.

Mr SPEAKER:

– As a division has been called for, the House will divide; ring the bells.

– Yes.

The doors having been locked,

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The question is that the Senate’s consequential amendment to clause 2 of the Child Endowment Bill be agreed to. I appoint the honorable member for Henty and the honorable member for Dawson as tellers for the Ayes. There being no honorable members on the Opposition side I cannot appoint tellers from that side. I therefore declare the question resolved in the affirmative.

page 4824

PRINTING COMMITTEE

Mr WILSON:
STURT, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– As Chairman, I present the first report of the Printing Committee.

Report read by the Clerk, and - by leave - adopted.

page 4824

LEAVE OF ABSENCE TO ALL MEMBERS

Motion (by Mr. Menzies) agreed to -

That leave of absence be given to every member of the House of Representatives from the determination of this sitting of the House to the date of its next meeting.

page 4824

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Mr. Menzies) agreed to -

That the House, at its rising, adjourn to a date and hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker, which time of meeting shall be notified by Mr.Speaker to each member by telegram or letter.

Sitting suspended from 1.18 to 2.4 a.m.

page 4824

ADJOURNMENT

Cost of Living

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · LP

– There being no further message from another place, and that other place having adjourned, I move -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Before the House adjourns I wish to protest against the manner in which the Government has treated His Majesty’s Opposition, and in particular against its refusal to allow the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Chifley),, who is a member of His Majesty’s Privy Council, to make a statement relative to the Social Services Consolidation Bill. The right honorable gentleman sought leave of the House to make a statement on an important matter on behalf of a political party which represents 49 per cent. of the Australian electors.

Honorable members interjecting,

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! If the House does not wish to maintain order, I shall leave the chair.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Such conduct is a travesty of justice and constitutes a complete denial of the democratic rights of the Opposition. Such offensive behaviour by a power-drunk Government-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member may not proceed in that way. He is casting a reflection on the House.

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I hope that by the time the Parliament reassembles, possibly in September, the Government will have done something to restore to the Menzies £1 the value of the Chifley £1. I observe that the Treasurer (Mr. Fadden) is smiling, as usual. He has good reason to smile, because I understand that he and the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) will soon make a trip to London at the expense of the taxpayers. While they are overseas I hope that they will be able to discover some means by which they can give effect to their solemn promises to the electors to put value back into the £1. So far the Government has done absolutely nothing to implement that promise. Ministers have contented themselves with making all sorts of silly statements to the effect that the diminishing value of the £1 and the steeply increasing cost of living have resulted from the refusal of the industrial workers to do a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay. How does the Government account for the fact that the price of eggs, meat, wool and many other commodities that are not produced by the workers in industry are now higher than they have ever been in the past?

Mr SPENDER:
Minister for External Affairs and Minister for External Territories · Warringah · LP

– In view of the lateness of the hour, I move -

That the question be now put.

Question put. The House divided. (Me. Speaker - Hon. Archie Cameron.)

AYES: 58

NOES: 30

Majority . . . . 28

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Original question resolved in the affirmative.

page 4825

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment - Department of the Interior - E. J. Burr.

Papua and New Guinea Act - Ordinance - 1950 - No. 2 - Matrimonial Causes (Papua) (No. 2).

House adjourned at 2.15 a.m. (Friday) to a date and hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker.

page 4825

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

National Debt

Mr Morgan:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

n asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

What is the amount of the national debt of Australia and how much is owing (a) locally and (b) overseas? 2.In what countries is the debt owing and how much in each?
What is the annual interest bill thereon, respectively ?
What is the total of Australia’s overseas credits and what amount is available (a) in sterling and (b) in dollars?

Mr Fadden:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : - 1 and 2. As at 31st December, 1949, the a mount of the national debt of Australia was - In Australia, £2,502,705,303; in United Kingdom, £370,692,371 sterling; in the United States of America, 190,320,000 dollars (£40,341,107 sterling dollars converted at 4.8665 dollars equals £1 sterling).

The annual interest liability thereon was: - Australia, £71,401,702; United Kingdom, £11,714,302 sterling; the United States of America, 7,797,500 dollars (£1,602,293 sterling dollars converted at 4,8665 dollars equals £1 sterling) .
In the statement of liabilities and assets published by the Commonwealth Bank as at 14th June,1950, the bank’s holdings of “gold balances held abroad” were shown at £A. 497,000,000. In the main these are sterling assets, but they would include working balances held in dollars and other overseas currencies.

Timber.

Mr McBride:
LP

e. - On the 15th June, the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. Clarey) asked the following questions without notice -

Have the complaints of the timber industry to the effect that the Government’s action in” suspending and reducing tariffs on imported timbers in February of this year is gravely imperilling the native timber industry in Australia been brought to the notice of the Minister for Trade and Customs?
Will the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs inform the House whether it is true that the tariff alteration which was made in February was ante-dated to the 10th December, 1949?
That importers have been asked to make application for refunds of excess duty paid since that date?
What steps, if any,have been taken by the Government to see that the importers pass these refunds on to the consumers of the timber concerned?
Is it the intention of the Government to re-impose, after the 30th June, the duties formerly in operation on imported timber?

The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following information : -

Yes.
Yes.
No.
As regards importations, benefitting by the concessions, which have been sold at the duty-paid price it will be a matter for the purchasers or users to approach the importers for a price adjustment corresponding with the duty rebate. It is known that a number of importers has made these adjustments but as regards any who do not, enforcement is not practicable.
No.Provision has been made in Customs Tariff Proposals No. 2 of the 8th June, 1950, for the admission of certain classes of timber free of duty or at reduced rates of duty and this provision operates in respect of shipments made to Australia on or before the 31st December. 1950.

Dollar Deficits

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

n asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Has his attention been directed to a newspaper report wherein it is published that after the present parliamentary session he is to proceed to America for the purpose of floating a big dollar loan?
If so, is a dollar loan the method to be pursued by the Government against the present inflationary spiral?
Is it a fact that in previous American loans the terms have been most unfavorable to Australia?
Is it the intention of the Government to revalue the Australian £1 for the purpose of creating a favorable atmosphere to the financial interests of America?
What amount has been paid by Australia into the International Monetary Fund?
1. What amounts have been drawn by Australia from that fund?
What amount remains under that agreement upon which Australia can draw outside the dollar pool created by Great Britain?
Will he take the House into his confidence and disclose his reasons for seeking an American loan when the provisions of the Bretton Woods international agreement should assist Australia with regard to dollar shortages’?

Mr Menzies:
LP

– In reply to the honorable member, I would advise that I have not seen the report upon which certain portions of the honorable member’s question is based. I might say, however, as I have done on previous occasions, that the report was purely speculative. Insofar as the remainder of the question is concerned, I shall consult my colleague, the Treasurer, and endeavour to supply so much of the information as does not impinge upon matters of policy.

Armed Forces.

Mr Francis:
LP

s. - On the 25th May, the honorable member for Indi (Mr. Bostock) asked me to supply him with the numbers of desertions, discharges, resignations, enlistments and appointments which have taken place in the permanent establishments of each of the three fighting services during the last twelve months. I now furnish the honorable member with the following particulars in relation to the last twelve months : -

Mr. Jules Meltzer

Mr Fraser:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES

r asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice -

Is ita fact thatduring April, 1950, a uniformed officer and a plain-clothes officer visited the home of Mr. Jules Meltzer. Caulfield, Victoria, and questioned a young member of the household concerning the movements and associations of Mr. Meltzer? 2.Is it a fact that Mr. Meltzer was an Australian Labour party candidate at the federal election in December, 1949, and is a member of the Jewish community?
Were these officers directed by the Attorney-General to question Mr. Meltzer and members ofhis household?
If so. what statute or statutory rule authorizes such direction?
Is it a fact that, on various dates between the 14 th April andthe 1 7th May, members of the police force visited a number of homes in Melbourne and questioned persons regarding their, or their children’s, membership of non-political organizations and regarding the political beliefs of the persons questioned and other persons?
Hashe seen a statement by the Chief Secretary of Victoria, Mr. Leggatt, published on the 30th May that he had not ordered police to undertake these visits and interrogations and that he thought State police may have been confused with Commonwealth security officers
Were officers directed by the AttorneyGeneral to undertake these visits and interrogations ?
If so, what is his authority for them ?
Is it a fact that all the persons who have been questioned and who have complained to the Australian Council of Civil Liberties are members of the one religious faith, the Jewish religion ?
As the security interrogation of Jews and members of the Labour party preceded the destruction of democracy in Germany in 1933, does he intend to apply in States, other thanVictoria, similar interrogations of Jews and members of the Australian Labour party?

Mr Menzies:
LP

– In reply, I would direct the attention of the honorable member to the statement I made to the House on the 22nd June, 1950, in connexion with this matter.

Royal Australian Navy.

Mr Francis:
LP

s. - On the14th June, the honorable member for Burke (Mr. Peters) asked the following question: -

As a decision was made some time ago that naval police employed at dockyards and elsewhere should receive rates of pay in accordance with length of service similar to those paid to peace officers, and as the decision has not yet been implemented, will the Minister for the Navy take action to ensure that such adjustments of pay are made and that the increased rates arepaid retrospective to the date upon which thepeace officers received their last pay increase?

I then replied as follows : -

I shall be pleased to cause an examination to be made of the point raised by the honorable member which has not previously been brought to my notice. I shall give the matter early consideration.

I now desire to inform the honorable member that the guard section only of the naval dockyard police are paid rates of pay similar to those received by Commonwealth peace officers. It is not always possible, however, to adhere to a strict alinement in this regard, as it is essential that disparities in pay between identical ranks in the guard section and in the permanent force of the naval dockyard police should, wherever possible, be avoided. A comprehensive review of the special rates of pay payable to members of the guard section has just been completed, and it has been approved that, in this case, rates identical with those obtaining for Commonwealth peace officers shallbe paid, and that retrospective adjustments shall be made. The necessary authority for adjustment of salary rates is being issued immediately.

Immigration: Admission of Used Caravans.

Mr McBride:
LP

e. - On the 15th June, the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Grayden) asked a question without notice concerning the possibility of admitting used caravans, the property of immigrants, free of duty on the same basis as second-hand motor cars. The Minister for Trade and Customs has furnished the following reply: -

This matter has been considered previously and I find that should the determination relating to passengers’ personal effects be amended to include second-hand caravans, such action, besides being detrimental to the Australian caravan industry, might encourage the use of caravans as sub-standard homes. As second-hand motor vehicles which are admitted free of duty as passengers’ personal effects, subject to compliance with certain conditions, are used for transportation purposes and not as living quarters, it is evident that the circumstances under which the two kinds of vehicles are imported arc not analogous. I have decided, therefore, that second-hand caravans should not be admitted free of duty as personal effects. Incidentally, the freight on caravansis heavy and if the migrant desired a caravan it would be in his interests financially to purchase one after he arrived in Australia

Comic Strips

Mr Keon:
YARRA, VICTORIA

n asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Has any action been taken to enforce the ban on comic strips, syndicated fiction, feature and art material imposed by his Government in 1941 ?
Why is this material, though banned by the Government, allowed into the country to the consequent economic loss of Australian artists and writers?
What action will be taken against publishers who have been and still are using banned material, apparently with the full knowledge of the department even though comic strips, &c., are illegally entering the country?
What amount of dollar exchange is involved in the purchase of fiction, feature and art material from hard-currency areas?
Could the same amount of dollar exchange be put to better use in the essential purchases of, for example, farm machinery and the like?

Mr McBride:
LP

– The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following information: - 1 and 2. Comic strips, syndicated fiction, feature and art material are not subject to licence when originating in the United Kingdom or other sterling area countries. Licences are necessary when importation is desired from other countries. Licences are not made available to cover importation from dollar or other hard currency countries if exchange is involved. In many instances material which was imported prior to the introduction of import licensing is used as a basis for reproducing comic strips and other syndicated articles. In other cases publishers obtain their requirements from overseas newspapers and magazines which may be legally obtained from hard currency countries on subscription. Art material for comic strips is imported through the post in the form of pulls, proofs, photographs, newspaper clippings and tear sheets from newspapers and is very difficult to detect on outside examination. To close the avenue of importation would require a complete examination of first-class mail matter, which is impracticable.

The Commonwealth Government has no power to prohibit the publication of comic strips and the like in Australia.
No provision is made in the dollar budget for the expenditure of dollars on. comic strips, syndicated fiction, feature and art material.
See answer to question 4.

Government Loans

Mr Calwell:

l. asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

What action has he taken in respect of each loan which has (a) fallen due or (6) been the subject of a conversion operation since the present Government took office?
What is the current ruling price in respect of each Australian loan listed on (a) the London market and (7)) the New York market ?

Mr Fadden:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

A loan of £4,125,010 bearing interest at 2 per cent. fell due in Australia on the loth March, 1950. This was converted by a public loan issued at that time. Holders of maturing securities were given the option of conversion into 2 per cent. securities maturing in 1953 or 3 per cent. securities maturing in 1961-64. A loan of £11,707,278 bearing interest at 3½ per cent. per annum falls due in London on 1st July, 1950. Arrangements have been made for this loan to be paid off on the due date and the indebtedness transferred to Australia.
London market -

MoToR Vehicles.

Mr Francis:
LP

s- Earlier to-day the honorable member for Port Adelaide (Mr. Thompson) addressed a question to me in the following terms : -

Will the Minister for the. Army inform me whether the decision that was made some little time ago to provide special motor cars for disabled ex-servicemen been given effect? If it has not, can the Minister state whether any progress has been made in the matter and how the needs of those men are being met T

I replied as follows : -

On behalf of the Minister for Repatriation who deals with the matter which has been raised by the honorable member for Fort Adelaide, I am pleased to say that approval has been granted for the .provision of motor cars for seriously disabled personnel. I think that there are approximately 90 ex-servicemen who are involved in the matter but I shall obtain for the honorable gentleman fuller details, including the conditions under which the motor vehicles have been made available and give him the particulars before the House adjourns.

In amplification of that reply, I now desire to inform -the honorable member that the Minister for Repatriation advisee me that the Government has agreed to the principle of providing specially equipped motor cars to ex-service personnel, who, as a result of war service, arc suffering from amputations of both legs above the knees, or paraplegics. It has also been decided that consideration be given to the position of ex-service personnel, who, as a result of war-caused disabilities other than those mentioned above, are unable to use, or have great difficulty, or are in danger when using the ordinary means of public transport. It has been decided to appoint a departmental committee comprising representatives of the Departments of Repatriation. Treasury, Attorney-General’s and Supply to examine the whole subject, and make recommendations to the Minister as to the precise terms and conditions which should apply to such scheme. As soon as the committee has submitted its report to the Minister, and it has been examined, an announcement as to the conditions under which the motor cars will be supplied will be made.

Shipping.

Mr Anthony:
CP

y. - On the 14th June the honorable member -for Hoddle (Mr. Cremean) asked a question concerning the Australian Government Shipping Line. The Minister for Fuel, Shipping and Transport has furnished the following reply : - .

The number of steamships owned by the Commonwealth Government and operated by the Australian Shipping Board is 29.
The total original book value of the ships is £10,730,000.
The depreciated book value to-day is £8,742,800.
Privately owned .vessels on charter to the Australian Shipping Board number eight.
None of these vessels are on loan or lease to other steamship lines.

page 4830

MEMBERS OF THE SENATE

(From the 1st July, 1950.)

NINETEENTH PARLIAMENT - FIRST SESSION : FIRST PERIOD.

President - Senator the Honorable Gordon Brown.

Leader of the Government in the Senate - Senator the Honorable Neil O’Sullivan.

Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate - Senator the Honorable George McLeay.

Chairman of Committees - Senator Theophilus Martin Nicholls.

Leader of the Opposition - Senator the Honorable William Patrick Ashley.

Deputy Leader of the Opposition - Senator the Honorable Nicholas Edward McKenna.

Amour, Stanley Kerln (N.S.W.)

Armstrong, Hon. John Ignatius (N.S.W.)

Arnold, James Jarvist (N.S.W.)

Ashley, Hon. William Patrick (N.S.W.)

Aylett, William Edward (T.)

Beerworth, Frederick Hubert (S.A.)

Benn, Archibald Malcolm (Q.)

Brown, Hon. Gordon (Q.)

Cameron, Hon. Donald (V.)

Cole, George Ronald (T.)

Cooke, Joseph Alfred (W.A.)

Cooper, Hon. Walter Jackson,M.B.E. (q)

Courtice, Hon. Benjamin (Q.)

Critchley, John Owen (S.A.)

Devlin, John Joseph (V.)

Finlay, Alexander (S.A.)

Fraser, Hon. James Mackintosh (W.A.)

Gorton, John Grey (V.)

Grant, Donald MacLennan (N.S.W.)

Guy. Hon. James Allan (T.)

Hannaford, Douglas Clive (S.A.)

Harris, John (W.A.)

Hendrickson, Albion (V.)

Henty Norman Henry Denham (T.)

Katz, Frederick (V.)

Kendall, Roy (Q.)

Large, William James (N.S.W.)

McCallum, John Archibald (N.S.W.)

McKenna, Hon. Nicholas Edward (T.)

McLeay, Hon. George (S.A.)

Maher, Edmund Bede (Q.)

Mattner, Edward William (S.A.)

Morrow, William (T.)

Murray, Reginald James ft.)

Nash,Richard Harry (W.A.)

Nicholls, Theophilus Martin (S.A.)

O’Byrne, Justin Hilary (T.)

O’Flahorty, Sidney Weinman (S.A.)

O’Sullivan, Hon. Neil (Q.)

Please, Edmund Stephen Roper (W.A.)

Rankin, Annabelle Jane Mary (Q.)

Rankln, George James, D.8.O., V.D. (V.)

Reid, Albert David (N.S.W.)

Robertson, Agnes Robertson (W.A.)

Ryan, John Victor (S.A.)

Sandford, Charles Walter (V.)

Scott, Malcolm Fox (W.A.)

Sheehan, James Michael (V.)

Simmonds, Wilfrid Mylchreest (Q.)

Spicer, Hon. John Armstrong (V.)

Spooner, Hon. William Henry (N.S.W.)

Tangney, Dorothy Margaret (W.A.)

Tate, JohnPercival (N.S.W.)

Vincent, Victor Seddon (W.A.)

Ward, Frederick Furner (S.A.)

Wedgwood, Ivy Evelyn (V.)

Willesee, Donald Robert (W.A.)

Wood, Ian Alexander Christie (Q.)

Wordsworth, Robert Hurley (T.)

Wright, Reginald Charles (T.)

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 22 June 1950, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1950/19500622_reps_19_208/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

House of Representatives22 June 1950

QUESTION

DRIED FRUITS

Mr TURNBULL:MALLEE, VICTORIA · CP

Mr McEWEN:Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · MURRAY, VICTORIA · CP

QUESTION

NEW SUB-MACHINE GUN

Mr WHEELER:MITCHELL, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr BEALE:Minister for Supply · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

QUESTION

LABELLING OF TEXTILES

Mr POLLARD:LALOR, VICTORIA

Mr McEWEN:CP

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Mr MACKINNON:WANNON, VICTORIA

Mr CASEY:Minister for Works and Housing · LP

Dr EVATT:BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CASEY:

Mr Pollard:

Mr CASEY:

Mr Pollard:

Mr CASEY:

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Mr HAWORTH:ISAACS, VICTORIA

Mr FRANCIS:Minister for the Army · MORETON, QUEENSLAND · LP

QUESTION

ARMED FORCES

Mr BRYSON:WILLS, VICTORIA

Mr McBRIDE:Minister for the Interior · WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP

QUESTION

THE PARLIAMENT

Mr FAILES:LAWSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr COSTA:BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPEAKER:

Dr Evatt:

Mr SPEAKER:

QUESTION

MOTOR VEHICLES

Mr DALY:GRAYNDLER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · LP

QUESTION

SOIL EROSION

Mr SWARTZ:DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr CASEY:LP

QUESTION

WAR NEUROSIS

Mr FITZGERALD:PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr FRANCIS:LP

QUESTION

SHIPPING

Mr McCOLM:BOWMAN, QUEENSLAND

Mr BEALE:LP

QUESTION

HEALTH AND MEDICAL SERVICES

Mr GORDON ANDERSON:KINGSFORD-SMITH, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Sir EARLE PAGE:Minister for Health · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

QUESTION

CIVIL DEFENCE

Mr TOWNLEY:DENISON, TASMANIA

Mr McBRIDE:LP

QUESTION

COAL

Mr WATKINS:NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:LP

QUESTION

HOUSING

Mr HOWSE:CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CASEY:LP

QUESTION

REPATRIATION

Mr THOMPSON:PORT ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr FRANCIS:LP

QUESTION

ONIONS

Mr FAIRBAIRN:FARRER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr McEWEN:CP

QUESTION

House of Representatives
22 June 1950

Mr TURNBULL:
MALLEE, VICTORIA · CP

Mr McEWEN:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · MURRAY, VICTORIA · CP

Mr WHEELER:
MITCHELL, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr BEALE:
Minister for Supply · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

Mr POLLARD:
LALOR, VICTORIA

Mr McEWEN:
CP

Mr MACKINNON:
WANNON, VICTORIA

Mr CASEY:
Minister for Works and Housing · LP

Dr EVATT:
BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HAWORTH:
ISAACS, VICTORIA

Mr FRANCIS:
Minister for the Army · MORETON, QUEENSLAND · LP

Mr BRYSON:
WILLS, VICTORIA

Mr McBRIDE:
Minister for the Interior · WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP

Mr FAILES:
LAWSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr COSTA:
BANKS, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr DALY:
GRAYNDLER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · LP

Mr SWARTZ:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr CASEY:
LP

Mr FITZGERALD:
PHILLIP, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

Mr McCOLM:
BOWMAN, QUEENSLAND

Mr BEALE:
LP

Mr GORDON ANDERSON:
KINGSFORD-SMITH, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Minister for Health · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

Mr TOWNLEY:
DENISON, TASMANIA

Mr McBRIDE:
LP

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr HOWSE:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CASEY:
LP

Mr THOMPSON:
PORT ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr FRANCIS:
LP

Mr FAIRBAIRN:
FARRER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr McEWEN:
CP

Mr BROWN:
MCMILLAN, VICTORIA

Sir EARLE PAGE:
CP

Mr GILMORE:
LEICHHARDT, QUEENSLAND · CP

Mr McEWEN:
CP

Mr McBRIDE:
LP

Mr GRIFFITHS:
SHORTLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr EGGINS:
LYNE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr McEWEN:
CP

Mr HAYLEN:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:
LP

Mr ANTHONY:
PostmasterGeneral · Richmond · CP

Mr McCOLM:
Bowman

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr KENT HUGHES:
CHISHOLM, VICTORIA · LP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CLYDE CAMERON:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP