House of Representatives
31 July 1946

17th Parliament · 3rd Session



Mr.Speaker (Hon. J. S. Rosevear) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 3360

NEW AND OPPOSED BUSINESS AFTER 11 P.M

Motion (by Mr. Chifley) - by leave - agreed to -

That Standing Order70 -11 o’clock rule - be suspended for the remainder of the session.

page 3360

HOUROF MEETING

Motion (by Mr. Chifley) agreed to -

That the House, at its rising, adjourn to to-morrow, at 10.30 a.m.

page 3360

QUESTION

RATIONING

Household Linen

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs be good enough to discuss with his colleague the ration scale in relation to sheets, pillow-slips, tablecloths and other items of household linen, all of which are in short supply? The average housewife has not sufficient coupons with which to purchase these urgentlyrequired materials, becauseof the demands that are made upon the total issue by her purchases of clothing.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for the Army · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

-I shall be pleased to discuss the matter with the Minister for Trade and Customs, who, I know, is particularly solicitous for the welfare and convenience of housewives throughout Australia. I am sure that he will give sympathetic consideration to the honorable member’s suggestion.

page 3360

QUESTION

OVERSEAS TELECOMMUNICATIONS

Mr MARTENS:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Minister representing the Postmaster-General seen the press reports of evidence given by Sir Edward Wilshaw, Chairman of Cables and Wireless Limited, before a House of Lords select committee, in which he said that he had received from Sir Ernest Fisk a letter inviting him to make a payment of £62,000 ster ling, in recognition of the good bargain which Sir Ernest had made on behalf of Cables and Wireless Limited and against the Commonwealth Government? Has the Minister any knowledge of the matter? If so, will he make a statement upon it?

Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

– I have not seen the press reports mentioned. I shall ask the Postmaster-General to make astatement uponit before the termination of the session.

page 3360

QUESTION

ROAD CONSTRUCTION

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

– It is claimed that during the six years of war the States received £53,898,203 from the direct taxation of motor vehicles and their proportion of the petrol tax. As road construction by the States practically ceased during the war, except for works carried out on behalf of the Commonwealth by the engineers of the States Roads Boards, does the Government know to what purposes the subsidy of £15,500,000 paid by the Commonwealth under the Federal Aid Roads Agreement was applied? As the States’ proportion of the petrol tax under the Federal Aids Roads and Works Agreement has amounted during the war to £15,500,000 will the Government, in formulating its new agreement with the States, make it a condition that federal aid shall be provided only for actual works, and shall not he paid to a State which later places part of its own roads taxation to general revenue, thus defeating the purpose of the federal assistancescheme?

Mr CHIFLEY:
Prime Minister · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I cannot offhand answer allthe honorable member’s ques-, tions. Since 1930 or 1931, it has been the practice to pay unconditionally to the’ States a certain proportion of the proceeds of the petrol tax. Before that, the act contained a condition providing that the works on which the money was expended had to be approved by the Commonwealth Minister for Works. I cannot say how much money the States have spent of the amount which they received, or how much they have kept in reserve for future reconstruction work I shall endeavour to obtain the information for the honorable, member.

page 3361

QUESTION

RAIL TRANSPORT

Oil-burning Locomotives.

Mr BRYSON:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

– Can the Prime Minister say whether, in view of the fact that the Victorian Railways Commissioner has arranged for the conversion of about 50 locomotives to. burn oil instead of coal, he will impress upon the State Premiers the advisability of converting as many railway locomotives as possible to burn oil so as to release more coal for our expanding industries?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– Last week, the Minister for Transport in Victoria, Mr. Stoneham, and the Minister for Transport in New South Wales, Mr. O’Sullivan, discussed the conversion of locomotives to burn oil instead of coal. I understand that some progress has already been made in Victoria, but it is anticipated that some weeks will elapse before any locomotives in New South Wales have been converted. I shall discuss the matter with the two Ministers.

page 3361

QUESTION

IMPORT LICENCES

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– Can the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs say how much longer it will be necessary to obtain import licences for goods imported into Australia? Is the Minister aware that stocks of control cable for civil aircraft are in short supply, and that the Division of Import Procurement has refused a licence to import this material? In future, will the Australian tariff be able to operate unimpeded by the Division of Import Procurement?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– The honorable member must believe that I have an encyclopedic knowledge if he expects me to supply offhand all the details for which he has asked. I am not aware that any difficulty has been experienced in importing the materials mentioned. However, I shall discuss the matter with the Minister for Trade and Customs, and obtain the information as soon as possible.

page 3361

QUESTION

BANKSTOWN HOSPITAL SITE

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Acting Attorney-General whether finality has yet been reached in regard to the title to certain land to be acquired for the Bankstown Hospital Committee in lieu of other land previously intended for a hospital site in that municipality but resumed by the Department of Air in connexion with the establishment of the Bankstown Aerodrome? If no finality has yet been reached will the Government expedite the matter in view of the urgency of the situation?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

-The matter is in hand. The Commonwealth intends to keep its promise to give to the Bankstown Hospital Committee a site equal in area to that’ taken over by the Royal Australian Air Force. Difficulty has been experienced, however, in tracing the owners of the blocks comprising the substitute land selected by the hospital committee. Portions of the land are owned by. a number of block holders, among them being five or six ex-servicemen. Efforts are now being made to trace the individual owners in order that arrangement may be made for the purchase of their land. Officers of the AttorneyGeneral’s Department are in consultation with representatives of the New South Wales Lands department with a view to ascertaining the names of the block-holders so that their blocks may be purchased at a price mutually agreed upon or other blocks found in substitution therefor.

page 3361

QUESTION

PENICILLIN AND SERUM PRODUCTS

Sir EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– An announcement was made by the Department of Health yesterday of the reduction of the price of penicillin by 50 per cent. Is the new price a payable price to the department? If so, was the department previously charging much more than the cost price of this drug ? Will the Minister examine the prices of other synthetic and serum products prepared by the Commonwealth Serum laboratories, such as, DDT., aggressin, diphtheria serum and the like, some of which are much higher in Australia than overseas, with a view to ascertaining whether it is possible to bring about a reduction?

Mr.HOLLOWAY.- I have already asked the Ministerfor Health to supply certain information in regard to the price of drugs referred to in a question asked by the honorable member for Moreton last week. I shall ask my colleague also to provide me with the information desired by the right honorable member forCowper.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Postmaster-General · BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

-I ask the Prime Minister whether the Government is aware that penicillin has become an important drug in veterinary science, especially in the treatment of mastitis in dairy cattle? Are the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories capable of meeting the penicillin requirements for both medical and veterinary purposes ? If not, will the Prime Minister consider allowing the importation, duty free, of sufficient penicillin to meet the requirements of veterinary surgeons throughout Australia?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

-I understand that the productive capacity of the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories is sufficient to meet all the demands that have been made. I was not aware that penicillin was used in the treatment of animals.I had in mind its use for the treatment of human ailments. I shall ascertain whether the laboratories are capable of meeting the needs for both human and animaltreatment, and, if they are not, consider whether it is desirable to allow some imports.

page 3362

QUESTION

ARMED FORCES

Recruiting for Interim Army

Mr HAYLEN:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

-My question concerns the vital problem of the defence of this country. Will the Minister for the Army inform the House what are the recruiting figures of the Australian Interim Army?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

-I asked this morning for certain information to be obtained on this subject which may. cover the question raised by the honorable member. Recruiting in all commands of the Australian Military Forces was resumed on the 15th February, 1946. Conditions of enlistment were similar to those applicable to personnel volunteering during the war years. Up to the week ended the 20th July, 1946, the total enlistments were 9,818. Of that number 9,675 volunteered for service in Japan. Of the total enlistments, 1,402 personnel had previously served on full time duty in the Royal Australian Navy, the Australian Military Forces, or the Royal Australian Air Force.

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

– Can the Minister for the Army state the total number of enlistments to date in the interim army, and the number of volunteers for service in Japan?

Mr FORDE:

-A question in similar terms has been asked by the honorable . member for Parkes. The figures are 9,800 and 1,402 respectively.

page 3362

QUESTION

DELIVERY OF GOODS

Mr HOLT:
FAWKNER, VICTORIA

-A widespread desire exists amongst housewives for the resumption of the delivery of meat and other domestic needs. I ask the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction whether the meat trade recently requested and was refused an increase of the price of meat in order to cover the cost of delivery. Was the request refused on thegrounds that the price of meat is sufficient to cover the cost of delivery and still leave a reasonable margin of profit,for the retailers ? What information, if any, has the Government that would suggest the likelihood of a resumption of deliveries?

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Post-war Reconstruction · CORIO, VICTORIA · ALP

-this matter concerns the Prices Commissioner, who operates under the administration of the Minister for Trade and Customs, to whom I shall refer the honorable gentleman’s question with a request that he provide the information sought.

page 3362

NEWSPAPERS

Price

Mr FULLER:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

-In view of the campaign by certain newspapers for reduction of the companies tax, will the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, and Customs take early action through the Prices Commissioner . to reduce the price of newspapers from 2d. to the prewar level of1½d.

Mr FORDE:
ALP

-Full consideration will . be given to the honorable gentleman’s representations.

page 3362

QUESTION

DEPARTMENT OF AIR

Statements by Air Vice-Marshal Bostock.

Mr RANKIN:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA

-Is the Minister for Air yet able to reply to my question last week relating to the tabling of certain signals and other documents in connexion with statements by Air Vice-Marshal Bostock?

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Minister for Air · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP

-The honorable gentleman’s question willbe answered when it has been fully considered.

page 3363

QUESTION

SALMON

Mr SHEEHAN:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I ask the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture whether Canadian exporters of salmon have indicated to the trade in Australia that they have ample supplies for export. Is it a fact that licences have not been granted for the importation of salmon?

Mr SCULLY:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The question relates to the Department for Trade and Customs, but I shall have inquiries made and supply the honorable gentleman with the information desired.

page 3363

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY

Medical Staff - Payment in Lieu of Accrued Leave.

Mr HUTCHINSON:
DEAKIN, VICTORIA

– Is the Minister for the Navy aware that many young doctors are wasting their time at different naval bases around Australia with little or nothing to do? Is he aware that many of them are becoming discontented and bitter, not only because of their enforced idleness, but also because they are losing contact with their profession and know that they are urgently needed in civilian life? Will the Minister treat this matter as urgent with a view to releasing many of them in order that they may return to a useful professional life and not remain a burden on the taxpayer?

Mr MAKIN:
Minister for Aircraft Production · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I do not admit that doctors in the Navy are wasting their time. They have exceedingly important duties in checking the health of men who are being demobilized and in maintaining the highest standard of health of those remaining in the service. The naval authorities are fully aware of and carrying out my wish that no men with high professional degrees, such as doctors, shall be retained in the naval service for one moment longer than is absolutely necessary.

Mr RYAN:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA

– Is the Minister for the Navy aware that Some officers who were discharged from the Royal Aus- tralian Navy as far back as February last have not yet received the payment due to them in lieu of accrued leave which was not taken during the period of. their service? Will the Minister arrange to have the payment made at an early date? In view of the length of time that has elapsed, will he also arrange for the payment of interest on the amounts outstanding to the credit of these men?

Mr MAKIN:

– I shall be very much astonished if, upon investigation. I learn that the honorable gentleman has correctly stated the position.

Mr Ryan:

– I have stated a fact.

Mr MAKIN:

– The Royal Australian Navy is a most efficient service, which cannot be charged with delays of the kind mentioned. If the inquiry that I shall make discloses that the position is in accordance with the honorable member’s statement, I. shall ensure complete rectification of it.

page 3363

QUESTION

CIGARETTES

Confiscated Stocks in Queensland.

Mr CONELAN:

– Some weeks ago, I asked a question about the disposal of confiscated cigarettes in Queensland. Approximately 1,000,000 cigarettes were to be disposed of, but the auction had to be stopped because of the chaos which occurred among intending buyers. Does the Government propose to allow the remaining cigarettes to deteriorate, or will the trade be asked to dispose of them? Will a percentage of the cigarettes be suppled to ex-servicemen’s organizations?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– When the honorable member asked his question, I requested the Minister for Trade and Customs to inquire into the matter, and he promised to do so. I have not yet received the information, but I hopeto be able to make it available to the honorable member almost immediately. I know that there is an acute shortage of cigarettes in Queensland.

page 3363

QUESTION

NATIONAL SECURITY REGULATIONS

Mr SPENDER:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– On the 11th July last, I addressed to the Acting AttorneyGeneral a question relating to ballots which were allegedly being held by unionists employed by Babcock and Wilcox Limited, the Purcell Engineering Company Proprietary Limited, and other firms to decide which employees should resign from them, thus ultimately causing a cessation of production. I received a reply to the effect that investigationswere being made. Since then, JudgeO’Mara has stated that if such ballots were being held with a view to compelling employers to pay wages in excess of the rates prescribed under the National Security (Economic Organization) Regulations, it was a criminal conspiracy. I ask the Acting Attorney-General to inform me what steps, if any, have been taken in pursuance of his assurance that he would investigate the matter, and what is the result?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The action which I took was to settle the dispute. The matter was placed in the hands of the court and, unless I am greatly mistaken, the judge has already settled the dispute. I have discussed with certain people the question raised by the honorable member about the ballot. As the dispute had been settled and, so far as I could discover, the ballot was not being proceeded with, I considered that the wise policy would be to let” sleeping dogs lie”.

page 3364

QUESTION

HOUSING

Roofing Tiles

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Some weeks ago,I asked the Minister for Works and Housing a question regarding the shortage of roofing tiles for many homes in the northern district of New South Wales, particularly the Newcastle-Maitland district. Some homes are complete except for the roof. The honorable gentlemanreplied that he would make representations to the Minister for Labour and Industry in New South Wales, Mr. Hamilton Knight, for the purpose of ascertaining whether action could be taken to overcome the shortage. I now ask the Minister whether roofing tiles can be obtained in New South Wales? If not, will he make representations to have tiles imported from other States?

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minister for Works and Housing · WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I brought the honorable gentleman’s representations to the notice of the Ministerfor Labour and

Industry in New South Wales. Unfortunately, as with most other building materials throughout Australia, there is a shortage of roofing tiles. Building materials are usually made in each State to meet local requirements, and the Commonwealth Department of Works and Housing is not responsible for the distribution of materials intra-state or interstate. When certain materials are manufactured in only two States, the department allots supplies from the pool so that each State shall get a reasonable quota. I asked the Minister for Labour and Industry in New South Wales to ascertain whether action could be taken to expedite the manufacture of tiles, but I remind the honorable member for Hunter that roofing tiles are made by private enterprise and, asin many other directions, private enterprise is apparently falling down on the job.

page 3364

CONSTITUTIONALTERATION

Referendum Campaign

Mr.FALSTEIN. - Will the Minister for the Interior inform me whether the electoral office has yet received the drafts of the cases to be published in favour of a “ Yes “ vote and a “ No “ vote respectively in connexion with the forthcoming referendum on the alteration of the Constitution? If so, will the printing be completed soon so that the information may be circulated? Does the Government intend to conduct a general campaign for an affirmative vote? Will the Minister inform me who was the author of the case for a “No” vote?

Mr JOHNSON:
Minister Assisting the Minister for Works and Housing · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The cases for both sides have already been prepared and the manuscript is in the hands of the printer. The campaign will be conducted concurrently with the general election campaign, and the information in support of both an affirmative and a negative vote will be made available to honorable members.

page 3364

QUESTION

SALVAGE COMMISSION

Report by Mr. Condé.

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Prime Minister whether the report of Mr. Condé, who was appointed to investigate certain charges made by the Leader of the

Australian Country party and, particularly, by me, in connexion with Commonwealth salvage, has yet been received by him? If so, will he inform the House of its contents? I also wish to know whether evidence was taken from certain members of the advisory committee on salvage, whose letters I read to the House ? These persons made charges against the commission and desired to be called to give evidence on oath. Were they called by Mr. Condé?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr. Condé’s report has been received. I shall give the honorable member a reply to the latter part of his question after I have considered the matter.

page 3365

QUESTION

TOBACCO

Mr ADERMANN:
MARANOA, QUEENSLAND

– Will the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture inform me to what extent local appraisals in connexion with the tobacco industry have been carried out, and whether the result of the decentralization of sales has been satisfactory to the growers?

Mr SCULLY:
ALP

– In some portions of Queensland and the Northern Territory there have been appraisals of tobacco. I have received mixed reports, some growers being most satisfied with the appraisals and others dissatisfied. However, it can be said generally that local appraisals were more satisfactory than those made in metropolitan areas, especially in Queensland. I hope to have the principle of local appraisals extended, because I believe that by that means the greatest degree of satisfaction will be given to the growers, who will at least know the methods under which their leaf is appraised and the prices they are to receive for it.

page 3365

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

North -Western Airlines Limited

Mr ABBOTT:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Minister for Air when I may expect an answer to a question that has been in my name on the notice-paper for almost a fortnight, in regard to the refusal ofthe department to issue a licence for the conduct of an air service to North -Western Airlines Limited, and the granting of a licence to Butler Air Transport Pro- prietary Limited tooperate over an area in respect of which North-Western Airlines Limited previously held a licence?

Mr DRAKEFORD:
ALP

– The answer is being prepared. Unless the honorable member states more specifically the information that he seeks, I am doubtful whether I shall be able to give him the sort of answer he desires.

page 3365

QUESTION

DAIRYING INDUSTRY

Price of Butterfat

Dame ENID LYONS:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

– As many dairy farmers are under the impression that the Government’s subsidy scheme was designed to stabilize the price of butter-fat, can the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture make a statement concerning the wide variations of price disclosed in these figures supplied to me by dairymen in Tasmania: February, 1945, 2s. perlb. ; February, 1946,1s. 9d. per lb.; March, 1945, 2s. per lb.; March, 1946,1s.11½d. perlb.; April, 1945, 2s. per lb. ; and April, 1946,1s.11d. perlb. ?

Mr SCULLY:
ALP

– There has always been a variation of the subsidy in respect of milk and butter, the rate being determined on a seasonal basis. Perhaps that accounts for the variations mentioned by the honorable member. The Prices Commissioner is responsible for the determination of the amount of subsidy and the fixing of prices. From him I shall obtain the statement desired by the honorable member.

page 3365

QUESTION

NEWSPRINT

Mr HAYLEN:

-Is the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs satisfied with the position in regard to newsprint in this country, and the use that has been made of the increased allocation since certain controls were lifted? The increased allocation has been used by the daily newspapers almost exclusively in the production of comics, including comic strips imported from overseas, which doubtless increase juvenile delinquency but add nothing to the cultural advancement of this country, and expensive magazines for women, which feature Parisian fashions, possibly those of the post-war period, the frocks depicted costing many guineas, thus encouraging a spiral of spending and an inflationary trend in luxury lines.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The hon orable gentleman is debating the matter.

Mr HAYLEN:

-As, according to reports, there will be a newsprint famine within the next six months, and Australian books will once again go off the market, will the Minister considerfurther the allocation of newsprint?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

-The Minister for Trade and Customs and I will consider further the matters raised by the honorable member. He raised somewhat similar matters a few days ago.

page 3366

QUESTION

APPLES AND PEARS

Mr GUY:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

-For the last four weeks, I have been pressing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture to furnish a reply to a question I had asked. Although statements are , being made publicly by persons who are not members of this House, apparently the Minister does not know whether or not a decision in the matter has been made. When will the honorable gentleman be able to tell me the decision of the Government in regard to the future of the apple and pear acquisitionscheme?

Mr SCULLY:
ALP

-I hope to be able to supply an answer before the end of the session.

page 3366

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR

Dependants’ Allotments

Mr WHITE:

-Will the Minister for the Army reply at an early date to two requests that I have made to him from time to time, by letter and in questions in this House, namely, first, that allotments paid between the date on which a prisoner of war was posted as missing and the date when he was presumed to b.e dead, be no longer deducted from the estates of the deceased men ; and secondly, when will the subject of pay in lieu of furlough be adjusted, so that the dependants of those who died before the date in 1945 fixed by War Cabinet will no longer be deprived of this pay?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

-Both of these questions will receiveprompt consideration, and replies to themwill be made before the rising of the Parliament.

page 3366

QUESTION

RE-ESTABLISHMENT

Loans for Farm Purposes -Land Settlement of ex-Servicemen.

Mr BEAZLEY:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

-Will the Minister fcr Post-war Reconstruction inform me when the amendment that will enable an ex-serviceman to receive a loan for farm purposes, and ex-members of the. services to draw several separate loans for engagement in the one enterprise, will come into force, and how quickly he will be able to get the. information out to the administration so that it may make these advances ?

Mr.DEDMAN. - The amendment will be completed during this week. Immediately, telegraphic advice will be’ sent to the agents of the Commonwealth in every State, and they will be empowered to. make decisions at once.

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA

-Can the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction say whether Commonwealth approval has been finallygiven to the proposal of the Government of Victoria for the acquisition of 60,000 acres of land in the Cobram-Goulburn . Valley area, for the settlement of exservicemen under irrigation conditions ?

Mr DEDMAN:
ALP

-All propositionsfrom State governments come to the Commonwealth authority for approval and, indeed, come to me, as Minister, for approval. Propositions come from all the States, and many suggestions are made. I regret that I cannot remember whether or not this particular proposition has been approved by me, but I shall make inquiries, and advise the honorable member as soon aspossible.

page 3366

QUESTION

PETROL RATIONING

Mr ANTHONY:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES

-Some time ago, the Prime Minister said, that when arrangements for the granting of the loan by the UnitedStates of America to the United Kingdom were completed, it would be possible to review petrol rationing in Australia. Can the Prime Minister say what are the prospects of a very early termination of petrol rationing?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

-As the honorable member mentioned, I did say that when the loan negotiations between the United Kingdom and the United States of America were completed, there might be some easing of the dollar position. Quite recently the British Government, upon the completion of the loan arrangements, eased petrol rationing in the United Kingdom. The view of the Commonwealth Government all along has been that we should not ask from the Empire dollar pool more than our due proportion in comparison with what was being used by the United Kingdom. There has been some development as the result of a statement by Mr. Shinwell regarding petrol rationing, and during the last week I have been in communication with the British Government on the matter. I hope to receive further information from the United Kingdom within a few days and in the light of it I may be able to answer the honorable member’s question more fully.

page 3367

FORESTRY AND TIMBER BUREAU BILL 1946

Bill presented by Mr. Johnson, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHNSON:
Minister for the Interior · Kalgoorlie · ALP

by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This measure is designed to extend the functions of the Commonwealth Forestry Bureau to enable it to advise on matters affecting the supply of timber. The war and its aftermath have decisively demonstrated Australia’s present inability to meet all our essential timber requirements from our own resources, and have given prominence to well-founded doubts as to bow long even our present standards of timber production can be maintained. A planning and co-ordinating authority is required to investigate the position, and advise the Commonwealth Government with regard to forest resources, timber production, imports and exports for Australia as a whole.

Under the National Security (Timber Control) Regulations, the Commonwealth Timber Controller had wide and necessary powers in relation to timber which was always in short supply. As the war position eased, it was possible to relax many restrictions on the use of timber, but the planning and co-ordinating side of the work of timber control has had to be continued to provide for the requirements of the many activities sponsored by the Commonwealth Government in connexion with housing, public works programmes, &c, “and to arrange, as far as practicable, the equitable distribution of available supplies between the States.

The Director-General of the Commonwealth Forestry Bureau has for some time held the’ appointment of Controller of Timber under the National Security (Timber Control) Regulations, and timber control was transferred from the Department of Works and Housing to the Department of the Interior as from the 1st July, 1946. The planning and co-ordinating’ service- developed during the war has the confidence and cooperation of State forest authorities and local sawmilling and timber importing interests throughout the Commonwealth.

The logical development to meet peacetime requirements is the inclusion of advisory functions with regard to these matters in a Commonwealth Forestry and Timber Bureau. A definition of timber is included by clause 3. Other amendments to the principal act are the change of the name of the Forestry Bureau to the “ Forestry and Timber Bureau “, and the designation of the Inspector-General of Forests to “ Director-General, Forestry and Timber Bureau “. Clause 5 of the bill details the additional functions relating to timber which it is proposed to place with the Forestry Bureau.

Timber is proving a limiting factor in the rate of development of certain postwar projects of national importance, such as housing, public works programme and the standardization of railway gauges. Facts regarding production, stocks, imports, exports and interstate movement of timber from month to month are needed to serve as a basis for planning. During the war, it has been demonstrated that this information can be collated and analysed by a very small staff without reuiring industrialists to make burdensome returns.

Although the forests of Australia, for the most part, are under the control of the States, certain factors on which the successful. exploitation by the sawmilling, industry of any forest region are dependent, are controlled by the Commonwealth. Accessible forests were heavily over-cut both before and during the war. It is now necessary to go further afield for logs if the rate of production is to be maintained. This may involve either higher prices or subsidies. Problems of this nature should be dealt with regionally, and should be investigated and reported on before the supply position becomes acute and dislocation of industry develops. Constructive planning by State forest authorities and a Commonwealth organization working in collaboration is required. In order that such problems may be considered in correct perspective, a knowledge of current production and consumption throughout the Commonwealth, with due allowance for imports and exports, is required, and this can be supplied only by a properly constituted and sufficiently staffed timber and forestry bureau.

A second important factor having a large influence on the economy of working the forests of any region is access, and present indications are that the Commonwealth may have to assist in the provision of funds for any major programme of road or tramline development. State forest authorities are already asking what the Commonwealth intends to do to extend the zone of supply in certain States to meet post-war demands, and at present there is no authority which can reply to them.

In the future there will be intense competition for softwood supplies from all countries having exportable surpluses, and it is evident that timber will occupy a prominent place in international trade agreements and that, in addition to control exercised through tariffs, considerable planning and co-ordination will he needed to regulate the quantities of timber to be imported into the main consuming centres and to ensure an equitable distribution of available imports in the national interest, with due regard to the stability of the local saw-milling industry.

Despite the fact that Australia will need to import nearly one-third of its total timber requirements after the war, there is scope for the development of a valuable export trade in high-quality hardwoods and figured- cabinet, woods. The extent to which hardwood exports will be possible will depend largely on our success in organizing (he import of sa tis. factory supplies of general utility softwoods. Australian hardwoods properly marketed will command a high price in overseas countries, in many cases more than double the value of equal quantities of timbers we may import to replace them for building purposes in Australia. Moreover, a number of Empire countries such as New Zealand, Ceylon, South Africa and even the United Kingdom will be seriously embarrassed unless they can obtain hardwood supplies from Australia for public works, railway requirements and special industries.

Reserves of good quality timber remaining in the forests of Australia are not sufficient to maintain the saw.-milling industry at its present level of production indefinitely, and it is important therefore that new industries requiring timber as a raw material should be considered in relation to the general problem of timber supply. For example, it is open to question whether Australia can afford to extend the use of mature logs of good quality to the manufacture of such products as paper and wallboards, when these _ commodities can be made from thinnings, poor quality logs and sawmill waste. At the present time the Commonwealth is directly concerned in any new projects of this nature, as approval is required to the raising of capital, the importing of machinery and the erection of new works; but even under pre-war conditions the Commonwealth was directly concerned in as far as such projects required either bounties or tariff protection before being started.

It is desired to make it clear that the proposed additional powers and functions of the Forestry and Timber Bureau will not interfere with the powers of the Minister for Trade and Customs, to impose import and export duties. The bureau, however, will be in a position to advise the Minister in that regard. I commend the bill to honorable members and urge its speedy passage.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Anthony) adjourned.

page 3368

RAILWAY STANDARDIZATION AGREEMENT BILL 1946

Motion (by Mr. Ward) agreed to -

That, leave be given to bring in a bill for an act to authorize the execution by or on behalf of the Commonwealth of an agreement between th”e Commonwealth and the States of New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia in relation to the standardization of certain railways, to approve of the raising of loans for defence purposes (namely, the standardization of those railways), and for other purposes.

page 3369

IMMIGRATION (GUARDIANSHIP OF CHILDREN) BILL 1946

Bill presented by Mr. Calwell, and read a first’ time.

Second Reading

Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and. Minister for Information · Melbourne · ALP

by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill is intended to serve a dual purpose, namely, to enable the Minister for Immigration to continue to act as the legal guardian of overseas children who remain in Australia after the National Security (Overseas Children) Regulations cease to have effect and to enable the Minister to act as legal guardian of all children who will- be brought to Australia in future as immigrants under the auspices of any governmental or nongovernmental migration organization. Under these regulations legal guardianship of British children, who were evacuated to. Australia in 1940 for the duration of the war, was vested in the Minister for Immigration and through him in the various’ State child welfare departments. The children were placed by those departments with custodians, who accepted responsibility for their welfare and care. Originally 577 children came to Australia under the overseas children scheme and the majority have now returned to the United. Kingdom. There are, however, over 100 children still in Australia. Some are remaining temporarily to complete educational courses or apprenticeships and others permanently. The National Security (Overseas Children) Regulations will cease’ to have effect after the 31st December, 1946, and the bill now introduced will enable the same arrangements as were made under those regulations to be continued in respect of the overseas children remaining here.

The bill also covers children who will be brought to Australia under the auspices of any governmental or nongovernmental migration organizations when migration is resumed. The overriding responsibility of the Commonwealth in respect of all migrants, including the application of its social service legislation, applies in greater force perhaps to children. It is believed that the Commonwealth Government, in encouraging and financially assisting child migration by way of contributions towards passage money and payment of child endowment to organizations caring for the children, accepts a responsibility which does not end with the children’s arrival in Australia. It is, therefore, incumbent on the Commonwealth to see that child migrants are properly accommodated and cared for until they reach 21 years of age. The only way in which this can be achieved is by vesting in the Minister for Immigration an overriding legal guardianship in respect of all such children. Whilst under the provisions of the bill, the Minister will be the legal guardian of immigrant children, it is proposed to utilize the services of the State authorities in the same manner as has been done with overseas children under the National Security (Overseas Children) Regulations. State authorities may, under delegation from the Minister, exercise control and supervision of the children, who will be cared for under the auspices of voluntary migration organizations introducing them, such as the Fairbridge Farm Schools, Dr. Barnardo Homes, Northcote Children’s Farm School, and church bodies. These organizations can be appointed custodians of the children brought out by them.

It will be observed that the proposed legislation does not apply to immigrant children who come to Australia with, or for the purpose of living under the care of, their parents or relatives. At a conference held in April, 1946, attended by representatives of the Commonwealth and States, it was agreed that there was need for uniformity of procedure with regard- to the legal guardianship of child immigrants and that the Commonwealth should assume responsibility for their guardianship until they attain the atn of 21 years. The State authorities agreed to exercise control and supervision over these children as delegates for the Minister for Immigration. The measures con tained in the billwill enable this to be done.

Debate (on motion by Dame Enid Lyons) adjourned.

page 3370

TARIFF PROPOSALS 1946

Customs Tariff Amendment (No. 1) - Excise Tariff Amendment (No. 1)

In Committee of Ways and Means:

Mr FORDE:
Minister for the Army · Capricornia · ALP

– I move - [Customs Tariff Proposals No. 1.]

That the Schedule to the Customs Tariff 1933-1939 be amended as hereinafter set out, and that, on and after the first day of August, One thousand nine hundred and forty-six, at nine o'clock in the forenoon, reckoned according to standard time in the Australian Capital Territory, duties of customs becollected in pursuance of the Customs Tariff 1933-1939 as so amended. [Excise Tariff Proposals (No. 1).] That the Schedule to the Excise Tariff 1921-1939 be amended as hereinafter set out, and that, on and after the first day of August, One thousand nine hundred and forty-six, at nine o'clock in the forenoon, reckoned according to standard time in the- Australian Capital Territory, duties of excise be . collected in pursuance of the Excise Tariff 1921-1939 as so amended. The proposals which I have moved contain in a number of instances amendments of an administrative nature, as will be seen from the notes attached to the resolutions which have been circulated to honorable mem bers. No changes in the specific rates of duty under any of the items are involved. I shall, however, comment briefly on some of the proposed alterations. Customs Tariff items 371, 372 and 373 and ExciseTariff items10b, c, d ande are an extension of concessional duty privileges to the Governor-General, State governors and official representatives of overseas countries. It has been pointed out that representatives of the Australian Government were receiving more favorable treatment in some other countries as regards customs and excise privileges than the representatives of overseas countries in Australia, and the Government has been pleased to introduce the proposed amendment to equalize the treatment. Provision, however, has been made for the Minister to be able to determine that the application of the concessions in customs item 373 a and excise item 10 d shall be conditional on reciprocity. The other Customs Tariff items 174m, 150 and 393b have been amended for administrative purposes. As regards Excise Tariff item 1, it has been deemed advisable to include a definition of beer in the Excise Tariff. The amendment to excise item 2q will allow hospitals to obtain full benefit of the consessional duty on spirit used by them. Previously duty-free delivery was only permitted for spirit used by hospitals in the manufacture of medicinal preparations, but inquiries showed that many hospitals could not avail themselves of the concession, as they did not possess the requisite manufacturing facilities. Hospitals will now be able to obtain the full benefit of the concession by purchasing from drug manufacturers, who will obtain duty-free delivery of the spirit, provided that manufacture is carried out in a licensed warehouse under excise control. The amendments to the remaining excise items are fully explained in the notes circulated to honorable members. Progress reported. {: .page-start } page 3373 {:#debate-32} ### INCOME TAX BILL 1946 *In Committee of Ways and Means:* Consideration resumed from the 30th July *(vide* page3263), on motion by **Mr. Chifley** - >That a tax be imposed upon incomes at the following rates: - > > *.(vide* page 2461). Upon which **Mr. Fadden** had moved by way of amendment - >That paragraph 1 be postponed. {: #debate-32-s0 .speaker-KZR} ##### Mr WHITE:
Balaclava .- The Prime Minister and Treasurer **(Mr.** Chifley) in the FinancialStatement claimed that reductions of income tax this financial year ranging from 20 to 47 per cent. were a substantial concession to taxpayers, but that is far from the truth. Only the most miserable concessions are proposed. Far from getting anywhere near the pre-war level of income tax the Government intends to go on its wasteful way. The strikes that trouble industry are largely due to the fact that workers are over taxed. They do not want to work just for the Treasury. Trade is restricted because business houses cannot launch on new programmes because of the punitive taxes. High taxes and in flated prices are handicapping exservicemen wishing to set up in business. Heavy taxes are new to them after having been . out of civilian life for so long. By maintaining taxesat such a height the Government is keeping up prices , and contributing to the scarcity of commodities. That leads to continuance of the black market. Proof that the proposed concession is miserable instead of substantial, as claimed by the Prime Minister, is proved by translating into pounds, shillings and pence, mostly pence, the percentages by which rates of tax are to be reduced. In most cases the weekly saving that taxpayers will make as the result of the proposed benefaction will be a matter of pence. The honorable member for Bass **(Mr. Barnard),** who, with other honorable gentlemen opposite, was most discomforted by my revelations about this vaunted tax concession, made much of the fact that a man on £200 a year would have his tax cut by 34.6 per cent. That amounts to 12s. a year. Anyway, few men with a dependentwife and child earn only £3 l5s. aweek. They are the people whoare to enjoy a reduction of their tax by 34.6 per cent. Good luck to them I wish it were double. A bachelor earning £300 a year, or £5 15s. 5d. a week, will save 2s. 4d. a week as a result of the proposed concession. He will be able to buy a lot with that. He will be able, perhaps, to invest in racehorses, or he might even be able to get married with the extra 2s. 4d. The honorable member for Burker **(Mr. Archie Cameron)** described the Finan- cial Statement as "abachelor's budget". I hardly agree with the honorable gentleman that it could be described as any sort of a budget. But I do agree with him that the bachelor is the man who is given the most consideration. Contrast the lot of the bachelor who will save 2s. 4d. a week with that of a man, with a dependent wife, earning £300 a year, a rate upon which there is a, much greater number of taxpayers. They will each get 9d. extra a week. Perhaps, they will be able to build a larger house and live more luxuriously on that. The savings of a man, with a dependent wife and one child on the same income will be 7d. a week for himself and each of his dependants. Their new house will not be quite so magnificent. A man and his wife and two children will get 4d. extra a week each. They are people whose breadwinner earns £300 a. year, which would be about the average salary of most Australian taxpayers. That shows the hollowness of the Government's claim, which was headlined in the newspapers, that the income tax would be reduced by 40 per cent. As the number of dependants of a taxpayer increases the weekly saving that he will be able to make as a result of this munificent .gesture diminishes. I now turn'to the taxpayers whose income comes from property. The propertyowners are the "people whom honorable gentlemen opposite habitually talk about with great unction as bloated capitalists who tread .on the faces of the workers. They are the exploiters. A taxpayer with the magnificient income of £200 a year from property and without dependants will save lOd. a week as the result of this legislation. He will be able to buy more property with that! He will be able to load himself up with more Commonwealth Bonds. The Minister for "Works and Housing **(Mr. Lazzarini),** in his more fervent if not more vocal days, used to refer vehemently to the bondholders as vampires sucking the blood of the people. But times have changed. The Labour Government has exhorted the people, to -purchase bonds. If they could not fight for Australia, 'they were urged to buy bonds. Last year, a person who earned the " magnificent " income of £20.0 a year paid tax of £8 19s. per annum. Under the new tax proposals, he or she will " bene- fit " by a reduction of lOd. per week. According to honorable members opposite that would enable him to become a bigger capitalist. Yesterday, the Minister for Information **(Mr. Calwell)** stood up all those familiar aunt sallies, and knocked them down > to his own satisfaction. He tilted at the Broken 1 Hill Proprietary Company Limited, the Melbourne Club, capitalists and profiteers. If any one lives on the earnings of the working man, it is certain honorable gentlemen opposite, and the Communists who live in their camp. However, I do not desire to harry their feelings by referring to that matter extensively. I wonder whether the Minister assisting the Treasurer **(Mr. Lazzarini)** is aware how onerously the income tax bears upon certain classes. Recently, a number of senior officers of the Royal Australian Air Force were retrenched. I do not propose to discuss the why and wherefore of their retrenchment, but the Government gave to those men a gratuity for, we hope, their long and distinguished service to Australia. Judge their surprise when they discovered that they were obliged to repay as income tax 5 per cent, of the amount. A gratuity of that kind should be exempt from tax. In my opinion, that action was unfair. Recently, the Minister for the Navy **(Mr. Makin)** referred to a certain action as not being " cricket " - I am glad to know that the honora'ble gentleman has begun to play the game lately - but I contend that it is not in the spirit of cricket to compel distinguished officers of the Royal Australian Air Force to pay income tax on their gratuity. Income tax is also levied unfairly upon some men, who, during the war, served outside Australia. To-day, I received a letter from a man who formerly resided in Shanghai, but who waa passing through Australia in 1940. As there were difficulties in the way of his leaving Australia, he enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force. Because he could not leave Australia for overseas service, he resigned' his commission and served aboard an American army transport, which was continually in the waters of Papua, New Guinea, the Netherlands East Indies and the Philippines. Now, the Taxation Department has ruled that he must pay income tax on the income derived from the Government of the United States of America during the period of his service. He wrote - >The income was not taxed by the American authorities, but they deducted tax from salaries on behalf of the Australian Taxation Department. This man is regarded as a civilian who did not serve in the forces. His desire for active service caused him to resign his commission in the Australian Imperial Force and seek employment on an American army transport. In such cases as this, the Government should be generous, and exempt the men from income tax. My correspondent added - >My income was not derived from sources within the Commonwealth, but was paid by the American Government, who did not levy tax. The vessel was operating in an area not subject to Australian income tax... The American Government accepted full responsibility for compensation for injury and loss of life. No responsibility was accepted by the Commonwealth Government. When a vessel is on the high seas under the American flag, the crew are subject to American law, and do not enjoy the rights of British subjects. Service on American ships is not recognized by the Australian Government as " war service ". I am not eligible for the Pacific Star, not eligible for any repatriation benefits for sickness such as malaria contracted whilst serving in the islands, and not eligible for membership of the Returned Soldiers' League. This matter affects many Australians who worked for the Americans in the islands for periods of six months upwards, therefore it would be appreciated if the subject could be brought before the House. This man is required to pay income tax on the money which he received while he was employed by the American Government. Is that justice to a man who enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force, and saw war service aboard an American transport ? Some time ago, I asked the Treasurer **(Mr. Chifley)** a question about the taxation of the incomes of Australians who were serving with Unrra. This excellent organization is doing wonderful service to-day in starving Europe, where many people are suffering from sickness and famine. One of the duties of the servants of Unrra is to re-organize the administrative machinery of the war-devastated countries. Australia's contribution to Unrra is £6,000,000 a year. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr Fadden: -Next year it will be £12,000,000. {: #debate-32-s1 .speaker-KZR} ##### Mr WHITE: -- In this Parliament, Unrra received unanimous support. Australians were chosen to serve in the organization. Many of them resigned from responsible positions here, though knowing that they would take the great risks of famine, disorder and disease. Yet the Government insists that they shall pay income tax on their earnings. Australians are the only members of the staff of Unrra whose incomes are taxed. An officer who, during the war, served with me in the Royal Australian Air Force has written to me on behalf of a number of Australians who are so situated. All of them have signed it. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr Anthony: -- Are Americans on the staff of Unrra obliged to pay income tax to the Government of the United States of America? {: .speaker-KZR} ##### Mr WHITE: -No. My correspondent is the Commanding Officer of a group which includes Americans, Dutch, French, British and Canadians, and only the incomes of the Australians are taxed. When I raised this matter in the House some time ago, the Treasurer replied that some members of the staff of Unrra were " doing pretty well ", because they were earning more abroad than they earned in Australia. Is that an answer to my appeal for justice for these men who are rendering international service and upholding Australia's name? As no Minister is in the House, I address this appeal to honorable gentlemen opposite who support the Government. I urge them to persuade caucus to direct the Government to alter this decision. {: .speaker-K0E} ##### Dr Gaha: -- We are not " game " to. We would feel the iron heel of caucus if we did so. {: .speaker-KZR} ##### Mr WHITE: -- Unfortunately, honor able members opposite are fettered to the policy of the Government, but I cannot believe that the Honorable member for Denison **(Dr. Gaha)** could be silent, whatever the circumstances. The Government's financial proposals are mostly make-believe. {: #debate-32-s2 .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! The honorable member has exhausted his time. [Quorum *formed.]* {: #debate-32-s3 .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER:
Hume .- The crocodile tears of honorable gentlemen opposite might lead us to think that their hearts were bleeding for the working men, the business people and the primary producers of Australia, but we would do well to remember that governments supported by the present Opposition were in office for a quarter of a century, and during that time Australia had the greatest army of unemployed that it has ever known.Workers were lined upin queues in front of soup kitchens, business men were going through the bankruptcy courts, and receivers were walking in on the farmers every day. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr Spender: -- Get on to the subject. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr Anthony: -I rise to order. I have examined the motion before the Chair, and I can find no reference to soup kitchens in it. Is the honorable member for Hume **(Mr. Fuller)** in order in turning the discussion into these channels? {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- I am listening carefully to the honorable member for HumeandI am sure that it will not be long beforehe comes to the point. {: .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER: -- The honorable mem- ber for Warringah **(Mr. Spender),** who interjected a moment ago, twists and " twerps " and puffs out his chest like a canary. It is not often that we have him in this chamber. I have taken the trouble to check up on his record, and I find thatout of 67 sittings he has attended- {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! The honorable member must confine his remarks to the motion. {: .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER: -Iwish to speak in rebuttal of the argument of honorable members opposite that the policy of this Government has failed to give an incentive to private industry. I shall speak, first of things as I find them in my own electorate. When I was elected to this Parliament in 1943 there was not one industry, war-time or otherwise, in my electorate. Since this Government has been in office industrial activity in the electorate has expanded enormously. In the town of Yass, which is only 35 miles distant from Canberra, this Government has established a leather factory and a. clothing factory, and to-day there is not an empty business establishment in the town. A clothing factory has also been established at Boorowa. This Government also created a small arms factory at Young, which has since been converted to the manufacture of textiles. At Cootamundra a clothing factory and rice mills are in operation, and the bacon factory and abattoirs have been enlarged. A clothing factory has been established at Harden. A small arms factory was opened at Wagga which is to-day occupied by the Dunlop Perdriau Rubber Company. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr Anthony: -I rise to order. I ask whether the honorable member for Hume is entitled to practise his election speech upon members of this chamber, when he should be discussing the motion before the Chair? {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -The honorable member for Hume is replying to arguments of honorable membersof the Opposition to the effect that the Government's policy has given no incentive to industry. He is contending for the opposite view. {: .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER: -- I am getting under the skin of honorable gentlemen opposite. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order ! The honorable member must discuss the motion. {: .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER: -- Albury had no industries when the Labour Government came into office, but a small arms factory was established there and the premises are to-day being used for the manufacture of tinned plate. At Tumut, my own home town, we are now to have a textile industry which will provide employment for 100 hands. We also have a broom factory, a box factory, and a saw-mill. What is happening in the Hume electorate is typical of the nationwide results of the administration of this Government. The people of Australia will be able to express their mind on the Government's administration in the near future, because the general elections are at hand. I wishalso to place some figures before honorable members which will show clearly that, as the result of the administration of the Government, the incomesof primary producers have increased enormously. I direct attention to the following table: - The increase of savings bank deposits is also a good indication- of the beneficial results of the administration of this Government. In June, 1941, savings bank deposits totalled £252,231,000, and by April, 1946, the total had increased to £.649,735,000. What I have said with regard to the establishment of industries in rural areas, the increase of the incomes of primary producers and the expansion of savings bank deposits, is a complete answer to the arguments cif honorable gentlemen opposite who could show no such results after governments which they supported had been in office for a quarter of a century. The Government has also provided subsidies of £54,000,000 for primary producers. I make these remarks because I am sick of the crocodile . tears of honorable gentlemen opposite. The verdict on the Government's administration can be left safely to- the people. The figures that I have given cannot be challenged. Without any doubt this Government has administered the affairs of the country in the best interests of the people at large, and I am quite confident of the answer that the people will give to the question whether the destinies of Australia should be placed in the hands of the political parties represented on the benches opposite,, or be left in the care of this Government, which has proved its capacity by pulling the country out of its difficulties in- days when it was overtaken, by war, drought and bush fires. {: #debate-32-s4 .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr SPENDER:
Warringah .-' Had this debate been broadcast to-day, the people of Tumut and Wagga who had cared to listen to it would have heard the rodomontade that has just been delivered by the honorable member for Hume **(Mr. Fuller). His** remarks had no connexion with the resolution which the committee is considering. Nevertheless, I shall be compelled to observe the ruling of the Chair in that regard. I shall not endeavour to refer to the so-called argument of the honorable member, because I have been left completely in the air by it and can find no argument to refute. What we have to consider are the rates of taxes that are to be imposed in thisfinancial year. The first matter to which I direct attention is the Government's pretence that the proposed .reduction of taxes,, which it claims will involve a loss to the revenue of £17,500,000, is the utmost that can- be made at the present time, and, indeed, represents a real contribution to the taxpayer. The memorandum circulated with the resolution sets out at page 2 the incomes that will have to be earned by different persons in order to bring them within the taxable scale. It is rather important that I should point to something which does not appear to have sunk home sufficiently in the minds of honorable members occupying the Government benches, namely, that the whole picture cannot be viewed by looking merely at what the direct income tax happens to be; one must also take into consideration the indirect .taxes' that have to be paid. As my time is limited, I can give only a brief outline. It is worth while to point out that indirect taxation totals over £100,000,000 per ann.um. If that be divided by the total number of human beings in this continent - the old and the young; the infant in arms ; the invalid.; and those who are about to. depart from- this "vale of tears" - it will be found that the taximposed upon each of them is approximately £1S per annum. I should have thought that the Labour party, in particular, would have been the first party to direct. its attention to indirect taxes, which bear directly on the man with a low income. {: .speaker-KRE} ##### Mr Sheehan: -- They are imposed mostly on luxuries. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr SPENDER: -- That is not correct. The honorable member shows by his interjection that he has? no knowledge of the sources from which the revenue from indirect taxes is derived. In 1943, there were 3,370,000 wage-earners in the Commonwealth of Australia, of whom 2,930,000, or 87 per cent., earned £8 a week or less, the average income of the total number being £247. a year. Deducting the amounts allowable in respect of wife, children and medical expenses, we find that the net income is approximately £147 « year, and on that the tax is about <£9. Indirect taxes are hidden, and affect the cost of everything that has to be purchased. For example, there is a 12$ per cent, sales tax - on furniture, carpets, linoleum, crockery, kitchenware, electric irons, and cutlery. Every man, even one on the smallest income, pays a substantial proportion of the .amount that he earns annually on the sum. of those items. The sales tax collections in that year- totalled £29,672,000, an average of £4 0s. lOd. a head of the population. The excise tax totalled £46,000,000, an average of £6 8s. a head. The customs tax totalled £21,000,000, an average of £2 15s. The entertainment tax totalled £6,981,000, an average of 19s. Id. a head. In order to illustrate the hearing which indirect taxes have on the poor man, I point out that he strikes on behalf of the Government one-half of every box of matches that Be uses. The Government should take steps to relieve the man on the low income of the harsh burden that is laid on him by indirect taxes. I do not claim that that can be done in rapid steps ; but I do contend that some steps to that end can be taken, particularly in the removal of sales tax from capital goods, which would enable purchasers to refurnish their homes at a much lower cost, after being denied the things they have needed during the last six years. There has been no attempt to deal with this form of taxation, which hears with particular severity on the working man. My next point deals with the property tax. The property rates are iniquitous,' particularly on low incomes. I have in mind, not the business tycoons about whom we hear so much from honorable members opposite whenever they speak, but the people on *low* incomes who endeavour to save and invest, so that, when they reach the end of their working days, they may not be dependent upon any government, or the charity of any person or institution. I say deliberately, that such persons are taxed at so high a rate that many are worse off than are others who have made no provision for themselves and are drawing the old-age pension. Let ' me cite a case which is typical of many cases of which "every honorable member in this House has knowledge. It is that of a retired railway employee who has a pension of £111 a year. He also has a cottage, which he was able to purchase by saving during his working days. Because the cottage is the property of his wife, she is said to be not dependent on her husband, and he is regarded as having an income of something over £200, On which has to pay a tax of £23. - There should be a more, sympathetic approach to those who are on the lower ranges cif property income, so that some encouragement might he given' to thrift. My next point deals with the treatment of persons who' have a mixed" income, from . personal exertion and property. In this respect, too, there should be a completely new approach in the years that lie ahead, by whoever happens to he in charge of the treasury bench. A person with an income of £50 from property and £500 from personal exertion, is taxed on both amounts at the rate applicable to a property income of £550. Every one of us knows that a person who endeavours to improve his ' position by investing in property ultimately finds that his investment' is of no value to him. I shall next deal with the discouragement of thrift by the policy pursued by the Government in respect of trust accounts, usually in the Commonwealth Bank, established by parents on behalf of their children who have not reached- the age of 21 years. The interest payable on the savings bank account is added to the income of the father and is taxable at the personal exertion rate applicable to the total amount. I cannot imagine any result that would be more disgraceful. A parent may set aside£3 or£4 a month, or a quarter, for the establishment of a fund on which his children may rely for their education, or in sickness, or for setting themselves up in life. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr Anthony: -- Does the father operate on the fund? {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr SPENDER: -- I am speaking of a genuine trust account, which really belongs not to the parent but to his children. There is no need for a provision to deal with a fake trust account because, according to income tax practice, the income is regarded as that of the parent. The matter cries to high heaven for quick redress. I should like to have a statement from the Minister upon the matters I have raised. Although they are not of great magnitude, they are of considerable consequence to many persons. I shall deal now with the company tax. The schedule we are considering does not make any provision for the reduction of that tax. I have heard it said that any one who advances the suggestion that the company tax ought to be reduced is, to use the customary political jargon, appearing or. holding a brief on behalf of " big business ". It would be a good thing to have regard, first to the part which companies play in the economic life of the community; secondly, to the number of shareholders in the big companies which so frequently are the object of attack; and thirdly, to the manner in which specialwar-time imposts in other countries have been treated. It is a favourite stratagem of Labour members, when criticized upon any matter - for example, coal - to state the position in other parts of the world. Well, if I may be forgiven, I propose to say something along the same lines, in order to show how company taxation has been dealt with in other parts of the world. In the United States of America, Canada and Great Britain there have been substantial reductions of war-time imposts. In Australia, we imposed a special wartime company tax which is dependent upon the amount of profit earned by a company in relation to shareholders' funds used in the company. It would be a good thing to start progressively reducing this tax - or does the Government intend to make a permanent part of our taxation system what was intended to be a purely war-time expedient?I hold no brief for any company, nor have I ever in this House held a brief for big business, any more than has any other honorable member on this side of the House. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- The honorable member's time has expired. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr SPENDER: -- If no other honorable member wishes to speak, I shalltake my second period now. It is true, that during the war, companies earned profits largely because of the. peculiar circumstances arising out of the war. The activities of most companies were directed to war production. There was no sale organization to maintain, because order came in automatically from government departments, and overhead costs were reduced to a minimum. Consequently profits were earned, as has been shown in the statistics. Notwithstanding this there are two factorswhich should now be considered. The first is that, according to the most recent statistics, then has already been a diminution of company returns. Secondly - and only those actively engaged in business know the truth of this - very serious problems exist in connexion with the change-over from war-time to peace-time conditions problems beyond the normal, and associated with the shortage of materials and labour. When we realizethat companies are allowed only a miserable rebate for depreciation of machinery, it becomes all the more evident that some taxation relief should be afforded as soon as possible. Companies pay a general tax of 6s. in the£1, a super-tax of1s. in the £1, 10 per cent. on undistributed profits, and the war-time company tax. I know that the theory is widely held that companies are something quite distinct from their shareholders. In a legal sense that is true, and in time of war it was justifiable to make such an artificial distinction, but now that peace has returned, such heavy taxation on companies cannot be regarded as otherthan a dual impost on those who invest their money incompanies. After all, it is their money which establishes the company; the funds which they provide make up the funds of the company; yet, before they receive any return on their investment, the Government makes this huge rake-off from the company's earnings. In 1943-44, 15,697 companies in Australia paid£54,831,000 or 27 per cent. of all direct taxation. Their assessments included £3,305,000 of supertax, £3,154,000 of war-time company tax, and £10,360,000 of undistributed profits tax. It is easily seen that taxation on this scale denies industry the means to expand, a fact that has long been recognized in other countries. For instance, in the United States of America, cuts have been made which- involve £980,000,000 in excess profits tax - which is the same as our war-time company tax - sur-tax, and capital stock tax. In Canada, the standard rate of 40 per cent. has been reduced to 30 per cent. and the excess profits tax from 20 per cent. to 15 per cent. In South Africa, excess profits tax has been reduced from 15s. to10s. in the £1, whilst in the United Kingdom excess profits tax is to he discontinued this year, and there is to be a reduction of the standard rate from 10s. to 9s. in the £1. In Australia, however, no attempt has been made to reduce company taxation. If only some relief were given in regard to the super-tax, or the war-time company tax, it would greatly help the economy of the country. There seems to me to be a great fallacy in the Government's reasoning, in that Ministers hold the view that if taxes are cut the revenue must decline. The fact is, that in times of expanding enterprise such as the present, if taxation is reduced within certain limits the total yield will almost inevitably increase, and this certainly applies to company taxation. During a previous debate, I contested the Treasurer's claim that taxpayers would benefit by as much as £17,000,000 this year as a result of tax cuts. I have here a letter written by the Treasurer **(Mr. Chifley)** to the honor- able member for Darling Downs **(Mr. Fadden),** in which he said that it was unlikely that the 1946-47 collections of revenue would be affected by more than £15,500,000 by the tax cuts. We may be sure that that was an over estimate. Even on that basis, however, the tax cuts amount to no more than a reduction of7½ per cent. of collections from direct taxation, or 5 per cent. of the total collections for last year from all taxation, direct and indirect. Viewed in this light, it is evident that the Government has made no real attempt to afford relief to taxpayers, but has merely made a political gesture which was wrung from it by the insistent demand of public opinion. I hope that tax rates on income from property will be reduced, in favour of the persons on small incomes. I hope that, in the case of composite incomes, the Government will abandon the iniquitous proposition that the whole of the property income must be taxed at a rate applicable to the' total income of the individual. In particular, I appeal to the Government to amend section 102 of the Income Tax Assessment Act, wthich must be read in conjunction with sections 95, 98 and 99, so as to limit taxation of genuine trust accounts and genuine trust property to income derived from them at a rate that such income itself would attract. Where parents have established genuine trust accounts for the benefit of their children they should not be penalized for their thrift and foresight. {: #debate-32-s5 .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper .- I rise to refute certain statements of the Minister for Immigration **(Mr. Calwell).** The first is that no Labour government had imposed a means test in regard to the payment of maternity allowances. I remind him that in the budget introduced on the 10th July, 1931, the Treasurer of the Labour Government, **Mr. Theodore,** provided for the reduction of the amount of the maternity allowance from £5 to £4, and it was further provided that no maternity allowance would be payable to any mother if the combined income of her husband and herself during the preceding twelve months exceeded £260. That was the first application of a means test to the maternity allowance since it was introduced by the Fisher Government. I wish now to expose the fallacy of the argument that certain specified millions of pounds have been lost to Commonwealth revenue as the result of the reduction of income tax rates. As a matter of fact, it would be profitable for the Treasurer to reduce taxation, especially on lower incomes, in the case of men with families. There was a reputed reduction of income tax last year by 12 per cent., but the actual result was that the receipts declined by only £500,000 - from £215,000,000 to £214,500,000. Moreover, the Treasurer admitted that £43,000,000 of income tax remained uncollected, while a further £50,000,000 was unassessed This indicattes clearly that with a reduction of income tax at a time of expanding economy, when war-time controls are being lifted and industry is, free to overtake the war-time lag of production, the national revenue must increase. The returns from income taxation will probably remain steady, or may even increase, as the' result of a reduction of rates, and it is quite certain that the total revenue collected by the Government from all sources will increase. In the year before the last reduction of income tax, the total taxation receipts amounted to £345,000,000, whereas last year, according to the financial statement just released by the 'Government, revenue from all sources amounted to £360,000,000, and this notwithstanding the non-collection of income tax amounting to £43,000,000, and the non-assessment of tax amounting to £50,000,000. All the talk of the millions that have. been foregone in remissions of taxes is sheer nonsense. I proved during the . 1920's that if rates of tax imposed in respect of certain income groups, particularly the lower groups, were reduced the spending power of the' people would be so increased that greater revenues would be derived from indirect taxes and thus the total revenue of the Commonwealth would not suffer. High taxation has always brought about diminishing returns; the higher the rate of tax the less will be the buoyancy of industry and the ultimate collections by the Government. I seek substantial improvement of the lot of taxpayers in the £400 to £700 income group, ns well as of those in the lowest income group. When I was Treasurer I* increased the exemption for single men to £300. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- When the right honorable gentleman was Treasurer the average worker did not earn £300 per annum. {: .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE: -- If the honorable member will examine the statistics he will find that in 1927-28 there was an all-time high record in employment and wages. I have brought before the Taxation. Commissioner a specific case of hardship which I believe merits his most sympathetic consideration. Under the uniform taxation law which was introduced in 1942, a taxpayer whose wife earns £50 a year has her income added to that of her husband in order to determine the rate to be applied to both incomes. The result of that is to increase greatly the tax paid by a man whose wife has an income from her own personal exertion. The case which I brought before the Taxation Commissioner concerned a teacher whose wife, as a patriotic gesture, accepted an appointment as sewing mistress at a school at an annual salary of £52. She was appointed to the post by the' Education Department in April, but because of a mistake on the part of the department she was not paid salary for the first quarter until some time during the succeeding income tax year when she was paid a total of £65. However, the addition of that £13 in the succeeding year so increased the rate applicable to the income of the husband that he had to pay an additional £30 15s. Since then the law has been amended, and a wife may now earn up to £100 without affecting the rate of tax imposed upon her husband. In these. days very few women in employment receive less than £100 a year. A wife should be able to earn much more than that before her income is added to that of her husband in order to determine a common rate to be applied to both. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- The right honorable gentleman is in error. The income of the wife is not so added now. {: .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE: -- I have discussed the matter with officials of the Taxation Department who have assured me that it is. The Taxation Department has refused to make any refund in respect of the additional tax imposed, notwithstanding the fact that the husband was in receipt of a salary of less than £700 a year. The innovation under which the income of a wife is, in effect, added to that of her husband, by eliminating the deduction- of £100 for a wife, in order to determine a common rate to be applied' to both was brought about by the exigencies of the war and its continuance is imposing unnecessary hardship. The wife of a taxpayer should be permitted to have an income of at least £200 a year before the rate of tax applicable to her husband's income is interfered with. The Government might well consider reverting to the former practice whereby for taxing purposes the earnings of a wife were regarded as entirely separate from those' of her husband, insofar, as concessional deductions were concerned. {: #debate-32-s6 .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth -- The procedure of interrupting a debate of this kind to permit the introduction of other business robs argument of its proper sequence. *[Quorum formed.]* Last night the Minister' for Immigration **(Mr. Calwell)** attempted to refute the arguments advanced by honorable members on this side of the chamber in favour of a reduction of taxes. The honorable gentleman drew attention to the fact that in the- years 1931-36 a continued series of remissions was made by the Government then in office - a Government supported by honorable members on this side of the chamber. He asserted that these remissions were for the benefit of large property holders, big business interests and wealthy and influential sections of the community. The right honorable gentleman displayed a complete lack of knowledge of economics. Surely, at that time when we were in the throes of a depression the greatest incentive should be given to businessmen and industrialists to expand their activities and so provide additionalavenues of employment. Surely the honorable gentleman does not deny that remissions of taxes to private enterprise in times of depression must constitute the best incentive to increase production and provide employment for the workless. The honorable gentleman is apparently unaware of what is an elementary principle in political economy. For a responsible Minister of the Crown to claim that such a policy was unsound is mere " clap trap " and will not influence thinking people. At a time like this when the people are short of almost every commodity they require for the maintenance of their standard of living, it is a great pity this Government has not been prepared to make similar remissions of taxes, in order that production may be stimulated and new industries established. Responsible Labour leaders in the United Kingdom and the United States of America have been unanimous in urging increased production as the solution of the economic problems that confront those countries. The reduction of taxes would assist materially in bringing about an increase of production and the consequential improvement of the standard of living of the workers and would be sound in every sense. The Goverdnment should give every encouragement to industry by granting substantial remissions of taxes wherever it is possible to do so. It is an acknowledged fact that there will not he found in the community to-day one professional man or tradesman who is prepared to earn beyond a certain limit of income because he knows that if he does so his tax will increase and so make the additional effort almost worthless. As has been said again and again by responsible officials of the miners organizations the principal question agitating the minds of the miners to-day is how many extra days they will " work for Chifley ". The, whole problem of the slowing down of production arises from the strangling effects of high taxes on private enterprise. The same problem confronts other countries. In an attempt to tackle it the United States of America introduced a system of incentive remissions designed to encourage certain sections of industry to produce goods which were in short supply; The introduction of remissions of a similar kind might well have to be considered in this country before very long. If such a system were introduced production of goods in short supply would rapidly expand and we would quickly he able to revert to our former high- standard of living.. If we discourage initiative we breed inefficiency, increase costs of production, and bring about a form of economic slavery. Because of that, honorable members on this side of the chamber are repeatedly urging the Government to " slash " taxation to such a level as will offer encouragement, not only to industry, but also to individual taxpayers. Having disposed of the comments of the Minister for Immigration about the tax remissions made by the Lyons Government during the. depression in order to encourage production and to encourage industry to absorb the workless, I now desire to refer to the strange anomalies that our taxation procedure breeds. The anomalies have been referred to by several honorable gentlemen on this side, but I toss a couple into the ring for good measure. The first affects a former prisoner of war. On his return to Australia from a German prison camp he decided to go on the land and, as a preliminary, he took a course in agricultural science at the Sydney University, in respect of which he receives an allowance of £3 5s. a week under the Commonwealth Re-establishment Training Scheme. In order to give him a start in civil life and to provide a part of the capital that he will need for the purchase of a property, his father gave him a block of shares in his company. He received a dividend in 1945. He realized that he would have to pay income tax on it in respect of the financial year 19.45-46, but when he was compiling his income tax return in consultation with a taxation expert, he found not only that he would have to pay tax for the year referred to on his university allowance and the dividend, but also that he would have to pay provisional tax on the whole amount to cover 25 per cent. of the previous year, despite the fact that for ten months of that year he was a prisoner of war in Germany. He has been informed by taxation advisers that the income tax, plus the provisional tax, will be little if anything less than £600, leaving him £350 to pay insurance, living expenses, &c, with no surplus out of two years' income to go towards his re-establishment in civil life, about which the Government professes to be concerned. {: .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr Bryson: -- He is still doing pretty well. {: .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr HARRISON: -- Doing pretty well! Why, this man was a prisoner of war for ten months. He is not doing so well as the honorable member is doing on his £1,000 a year, and the honorable member has never been in the Army. The second anomaly that I bring to the notice of the Government affects a widow whose former husband purchased for her an annuity. The Treasurer is dealing with the case at the moment ; but, for the life of me, I cannot understand why the Taxation Department arrived at its decision. When the husband died, the widow drew the annuity. She has now been advised that, notwithstanding that the annuity was taken into account as a part of her husband's estate for assessment of probate duty, she must pay income tax on the annuity.I do not know how that decision is reached. I understood that insurance benefits were not taxable. The two anomalies that I have cited are extraordinary, but, owing to the complexity of our tax laws, anomalies are always cropping up. It is high time tha t the whole of our tax procedure was reviewed in order that anomalies might be avoided. It is also necessary that the returns on which tax is assessed be simplified so that taxpayers may know, without having to go to experts for advice, just what their liability will be when caught in the tax mesh. That would reduce the number of attempts to evade taxes, because people would be aware of their tax liability from year to year and make provision for it, instead of resorting to evasion when finding themselves likely to be short of cash with which to meet their tax commitments. Question put - >That paragraph 1 be postponed **(Mr. Fadden's amendment ) .** The committee divided. (The Chairman- Mr. W. J. F. riordan.) AYES: 20 NOES: 38 Majority ... . .18 AYES NOES Question so resolved in the negative. Original question resolved in the affirmative. Resolution reported. Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted. *Ordered -* >That **Mr. Lazzarini** and **Mr. Holloway** do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution. Bill presented by **Mr. Lazzarini,** and passed through all stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 3384 {:#debate-33} ### SOCIAL SERVICES CONTRIBUTION BILL 1946 *In Committee of Ways and Means:* Consideration resumed from the 12th July (vide page 2466), on motion by **Mr. Chifley** - >That the following rates be substituted for the rates of social services contribution set out in the First Schedule to theSocial Services Contribution Act 1945: - (vide *page 2464).* {: #debate-33-s0 .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Australian Country party -- The purpose of this resolution is to replenish the National WelfareFund by earmarking certain graduated portions of the wages and salaries of Australian taxpayers, and, indeed of all persons who,, because they have low incomes, are not taxpayers according to the definition contained in income tax law. Those persons were not liable to pay tax until the advent of a Commonwealth Labour Government. The National WelfareFund into which the social services contributions will be paid, is a trust account which was set up specifically within the terms of the Audit Act. When it was created in 1943, the fund was admitted to be a political expedient to soften the shock to supporters of the Labour party of the reduction of the income tax exemption from £156 to £104 a year. Honorable members will recall that the last budget which I introduced was rejected by this chamber. The Labour Government, after having examined its responsibilities, found that it had not only to adopt the conditions of my budget, but also to reduce within a few months, the exemption from income tax from £156 to £104 per annum. In order to cushion the shock to the taxpayers affected by that reduction, the Labour Government told them that their contribution was for the purpose of certain social service benefits. Indeed, the Treasurer created a trust into which he undertook, on behalf of those taxpayers affected, to pay one quarter of the annual receipts from income tax, or£30,000,000, whichever was the less. In the first year of the operation of the fund, an amount of £27,800,000 was paid into it, and £2,300,000 was disbursed from it. The balance was £25,525,000. The cash substitute of that amount was taken from the special trust fund, spent for war purposes and replaced by internal treasurybills or government IO U's. There can be no complaint about the spending of cash for the purposes of war. Nobody disagrees with that. The resources of this country, including those resources in the fund, had to be marshalled to the best advantage in the conduct of the war, but the method adopted of putting the money into the trust fund, immediately taking it out, spending it, and deluding the low income earner that the money was still in the fund to be spent on social services is an action to which attention must be drawn. An amount of only £25,525 in cash was left in the National Welfare Fund at the end of the first year of its operation. The same technique was adopted in the financial year 1944-45. An amount of £27,500,000 in cash was put into the fund, taken out, spent and replaced with treasurybills. Consequently the paper balance, and it was purely a paper balance, with which the fund commenced the year 1945-46 was £53,000,000, which was represented entirely by the Treasury I O U's. As I have stated on previous occasions in this chamber, the fund on the' basis of cash resources is bankrupt. The actual expenditure on social services for 1945-46 was £53,100,000, or £11,600,000 less than the estimate. Cash to the amount of £6,600,000 was withdrawn from the welfare fund during the year to finance the deficiency between the income of the fund and payments on social services. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr Burke: -- What else does the right honorable gentleman expect the Treasury to do with the balance of cash held in the fund? {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN: -- The balance of cash could be held in the cash resources of thecommunity. As I shall prove, it is not being used to the extent and for the purposes for which the money was raised. Three points arise from the adoption of the procedure to which I have drawn attention. . First, the total government expenditure for the year is shown in financial statements as having been about £6,600,000 less than the actual figure. Secondly, social benefits were curtailed by some millions of pounds, obviously because the cash could not be found from the welfare fund. Thirdly, the £6,600,000 in cash was obtained most probably from disposals trust funds, transferred tothe National Welfare Fund in exchange for treasury-bills, and then spent on social services. As the cash had to be used and as it was an expanding fund, the cash should be available at short call for the purposes of' the fund. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr Burke: -That is exactly what treasury-bills are for. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN: -That is not what the Government has done. While the fund was in credit to the amount of £53,000,000, the sum of only£6,600,000 could be found from it to relieve expenditure from the Consolidated Revenue Fund. Those facts cannot be denied. The whole of the expenditure on social services, with the exception of an amount of £6,600,000, was met out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund instead of from out of the National Welfare Fund, which was provided for the purpose. How was the amount of £6,600,000 obtained? It was obtained most probably from the Disposals Trust Fund, transferred to the National Welfare Fund in exchange for treasurybills, and then spent on social services. As the result of much tedious interrogation, the Treasurer **(Mr. Chifley)** stated in reply to a question that the amount of £6,600,000 was used as a part of the Disposals Fund of £25,000,000. It is apparent that the amount of £6,600,000 in question was transferred or appropriated from disposals, put. into the trust fund so that that amount. of cash should be available, and treasury-bills of an equivalent amount were retired. The Treasurer's dilemma isobvious. He had to finance increased social services, but he could not pay for them with treasury-bills. Consequently, he had to find cash, and the extent of his social services was conditioned by the amount of cash that he could lay his hands upon. Internal treasury-bills have remained static at£85,500,000 during the year. Consequently, it is obvious that a" trust fund cash transfer such as I have described, has in fact taken place. If not, I should like a satisfactory explanation of it. Because the cash balance in the National Welfare Fund has been spent, there is now no opportunity to make large and substantial reductions of social service contributions or personal income tax, if social services are to be increased. The fund can be replenished only out of tax or other revenue, so the unfortunate taxpayer has to pay twice for his alleged benefits. As this deficiency cannot be made good out of the IOUs now in the fund, the charge will have to fall on general revenue, or social services will have to be curtailed. That is obvious because there is not sufficient cash in the fund to meet the demands that are made upon it. In any case, it is unfair to the contributors on ' low incomes who, in fact, are providing for their social services by virtue of this contribution. The vast amount of tax arrears is due, in some measure, to the complexity of the present tax laws compared with their previous comparative simplicity. Much additional work was caused by the allowance of rebates of tax in lieu of what were previously known as concessional, deduction's. Under the latter method, we deducted allowances for dependants, insurance premiums, &c, before arriving at the taxable income, and then applied the appropriate ra te of tax to such income. Now, the rebate system compels a person to work out the tax, and then to make a separate computation of how much of the tax shall be rebated on account of dependants, medical expenses, life assurance, &c. The limitation of the rebates to certain maxima also slows down the work. This difficulty, superimposed upon the double set of calculations, is largely attributable to a provision designed to ensure that the taxpayer "shall not get too big a rebate, such ' limitation being achieved by the provisions of section 160ad. In order that honorable members may have a ready appreciation of just how tortuous the method is, I. shall, with their consent, incorporate in *Hansard* two schedules. Schedule A shows the calculations under the present law, and schedule B indicates the computations that would be made if the rebate system were abolished and the social services contribution were merged with the income tax, go that there would he. only one levy, as there was up to December, 1045. The schedules are as follows: - Schedule A. {: .page-start } page 3386 {:#debate-34} ### CALCULATIONS UNDER THE PRESENT LAW Where the contributable income of a married contributor with no children is £250 from personal exertion for the year ended the 30th June, 1946 - {: .page-start } page 3387 {:#debate-35} ### CALCULATIONS UNDER A BETTER LAW Here is the progression of the complexities. First, we had a rebate system. Secondly, the social services contribution in its simplest form necessarily meant more work whilst . the consequence of section 160ad adds insult to injury. Whilst that section has no application to the higher grades of income, and, indeed, does not apply to certain of the lower grades, nevertheless it is a fearful business and must have application to very many cases. The political expediency of adopting a separate social services contribution to placate low-income earners was not lost on the Government, but its political chickens have now come home to roost. The complexity of the separate contribution and the calculations it renders necessary place an added strain on the assessors of the Taxation Department, and one consequence is that an amount of approximately £50,000,000 of income tax in respect of previous years has not yet been even assessed. It must be obvious to everybody that this system requires the employment of many more experts, but even with such extra help the taxes are not being collected. The failure to obtain this income tends to keep taxation higher than it would otherwise be for the payasyouearn worker, on whom falls the major burden of keeping the Government supplied with revenue. But for the adoption of this system, a considerable proportion of the £50,000,000 that I have mentioned would undoubtedly be available from other people. {: #debate-35-s0 .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- The right honorable member's time has expired. {: #debate-35-s1 .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN: -- With the concurrence of honorable members, I shall take my second period now. I desire to make some additional observations on the concessional allowance systemwhich the Government has adopted in preference to the straight-out deduction method that was formerly in operation. The right honorable member for Yarra **(Mr. Scullin)** and I have always disagreed on this subject. No one could possibly doubt the sincerity of the right honorable gentleman, and I personally respect his opinion on taxation matters generally, but on this subject our views are irreconcilable. I have never been able to understand why the right honorable member for Yarra has accepted the concessional allowance in preference to the straight-out deduction system. The deduction method, which I advocate, is simplicity itself. It is only necessary to arrive at the amount of income, make the deductions to which a taxpayer is entitled in respect of his wife and other dependants, and of medical, dental and other allowances, and then apply the appropriate rate of tax to the remainder. The right honorable member for Yarra has always argued that it is not fair that the man on the higher income should enjoy the same concessional allowances for the maintenance of dependants as the man on the lower income; but I have never failed to remind the right honorable gentleman that with the graduated curve in tax, the rate of tax looks after that matter, and overcomes any inequities that would otherwise occur. For instance a man with an income of £200 and no dependants is taxed £12 18s., whereas a man with an income of £400 and no dependants is taxed £68 7s.; roughly, on twice the amount of income he has to pay five times the amount of tax. A man with an income of £400 and no dependants is taxed £68 7s., whereas a man with an income of £800 and no dependants is taxed £198 7s. or, with twice the amount of income he pays three times the amount of tax. To take another contrast: a man with an income of £200 and no dependants pays £12 18s., whereas a man with an income of £800 and no dependants pays £198 7s. or, with four times the amount of income he pays fifteen times the amount of tax. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- But how much has he left? {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN: -- I know that is the point invariably taken by the right honorable member for Yarra; but I consider that in upholding the concessional allowance system he ignores the effect of the " graduated rate of tax. As all students of taxation know, the basic consideration is, not how much is taken away, but how much is left? The graduated system of taxation is applied more comprehensively in Australia than in any. other country, but I emphasize the indisputable fact that the concessional allowance system, as against the straight-out deduction, is not only extremely complex but also unjust. Another argument against the system which the Government kas adopted is that taxpayers are entitled to adjustments of taxation having regard to dependants, contributions to life assurance funds, and medical expenses, and by the same method an ' employer of labour is entitled to deductions in respect of the maintenance of machinery, plant and the like. Yet in the latter case the straight-out deduction method is adopted. The human machine requires repairs just as do plant and machinery, and a system of deductions that shay be properly applied to machinery and plant should also be. applicable to the human machine. Life insurance is comparable with fire insurance of buildings and equipment. If Straight-out deductions are justified in respect of property they should also be applied to the family expenses of the taxpayer. The arguments apply with equal force in each instance, in my opinion. Quite apart from the consideration that the adoption of the concessional allowances system by the Government has caused the banking-up of heavy arrears through the failure to issue assessments, owing to the necessity to employ expert staff, I contend that the method is unjustifiable on the other grounds that I have mentioned. I urge the Government, therefore, to take prompt steps to revert to the straight-out deductions system, particularly, in view of the fact that our graduated rates- of tax ensure that persons in the higher income ranges shall pay disproportionately higher rates of tax than apply to people on the lower income ranges. ' {: #debate-35-s2 .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr BURKE:
Perth .- I wish to reply to the arguments that the Leader of the Australian Country party **(Mr. Fadden)** has used in favour of straightout concessional deductions as against the rebate system. I concede to the right honorable gentleman his point that the system he advocates is much more simple, but when we come to considerations of equity, the arguments are all iri favour of the concessional rebates method. Instancing the effect of the taxation curve, the right honorable gentleman said that a taxpayer with an income of £200 and no dependants would pay £12 18s. in tax, and a taxpayer with an income of £800 and no dependants would pay £198 7s. in tax. The rate and amount of tax in respect of those two taxpayers admittedly rise steeply, but I direct attention to 'the principle which the right honorable member mentioned, in passing, that the main consideration was, not how much tax a man paid, but how much income he had left after his tax was paid. In that respect the man with the income of £S00 is in a much more favorable position than the man with the income of £200, for he would have £612 18s. available after paying his tax, whereas the other taxpayer would have only £187 2s. left. With the statutory exemption standing at £250, the pre-war figure, it means nothing to a man with an income of that amount that, under the straight-out deduction system, he may deduct £100 for a wife and £50 for each dependent child up to the age of sixteen years. As he pays no tax, the deduction is of no value. This method conferred a tremendous advantage on taxpayers in the higher income brackets ; but, as the. right honorable member for Yarra **(Mr. Scullin)** has been at great pains to emphasize, it meant nothing at all to workers with a comparatively low income. It cannot be denied that the right to make deductions before the rate of tax is fixed would be of considerable cash value to men with higher incomes. In short, the straight-out deduction method favours the more privileged class in the community to the detriment of the underprivileged. For several days during this period of the session, honorable gentlemen opposite have- been arguing that the Government's taxation proposals are not equitable to the family man. The proposition submitted by the Leader of the Australian Country party is inconsistent with that argument. The contention that the Government is favouring the single man without dependants as against the married man with a. family has also been answered by. other supporters of the Government, again and again, most effectively. I shall now deal with that aspect of the matter with which the right honorable member for Darling Downs began his speech. He has advanced the same argument repeatedly when matters of a. similar nature have been, before the chamber. I have not previously joined issue with him, because I have believed that he had no real faith in his . proposition. But he has made it abundantly clear to-day that he does not understand the implications of the trust fund system. He has said that the cash provided by means of this tax is not, in effect, retained in the form of cash it could be so retained only by the time-honoured practice" of placing it under the mattress, or in a tin buried where it would not- be disturbed. If that practice were adopted, it would not have any effect in the present situation, under which the available cash is more than sufficient to purchase the goods that are procurable, because it would not be in circulation. But when a trust fund is established, obviously it must be placed somewhere for safety; and if there is no need to use it, the interest it earns augments the principal. Customarily, the proceeds of a tax which are allocated to a fund are deposited in a bank, usually in the Commonwealth Bank, and interest is earned, upon the money. The bank does not keep' it in .a strongroom or a safe, or return the identical notes when the money is withdrawn, but lends it for the various purposes for which loans are made normally; for example, housing. In a time of war, that avenue for investment is closed to the bank, and there are only two ways in which it may lend the money and earn interest upon it. The. first is by investing it in Commonwealth bonds for a fixed term, or in treasury-bills. ' The right honorable gentleman . said : " That is all right; but if you invest the money in Commonwealth bonds or treasury-bills, your fund is bankrupt ". I had not previously heard such a grotesque argument. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr Fadden: -- I said that it would be bankrupt of ready cash. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr BURKE: -- That is an absurd argument. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr Fadden: -- The honorable member may think so; but the fact remains. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr BURKE: -- The fact does not remain. The fund has a balance in the savings bank, probably of a small amount. Treasury-bills are the most liquid form of security, and an investment that is fancied by the trading banks of this country, because they earn interest and yet the investment can always be con-, verted into cash whenever required. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr Fadden: -- The Disposals Fund had to be drawn on to an amount of £6,000,000. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr BURKE: -- I shall deal with that matter in a moment. . Treasury-bills represent an investment which earns interest and have the added advantage that, within three months, they can he converted into ready cash if that he the desire; otherwise, the hills may he renewed. In both forms of investment - Commonwealth bonds and treasury-bills - interest is earned. In what way is that payable? ' Solely by means of taxation. Taxes are raised- for the purpose of paying interest to the fund ; and if that money be not required it, too, oan be invested in treasury-bills The same thing happens in connexion with the money received by the Commonwealth Disposals Commission. That money is not left in a bank, earning a low rate of interest, but is probably used to finance the activities of the Government and to retire treasury-bills. {: .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr Fadden: -- The interest on the welfare fund is at the lowest rate - 1 per cent. {: .speaker-JTF} ##### Mr BURKE: -- If the money in the Welfare Fund be invested, it earns the interest that prevails in respect of the investment in which it is placed. The rate of 1 per cent, is the prevailing rate payable by the British Treasury. It has been as low' as per cent. The argument of the right honorable gentleman is exceeded in puerility only by his . interjections. The fact has been established that the contributions to any such fund are either deposited in a bank and earn the ruling rate of interest, or are invested in Commonwealth inscribed stock. If the wish be not to have a long term investment, but to have a liquid security, the form most fancied is that of treasurybills. One of the principal investments favoured by trustee companies or trustees of estates is Commonwealth inscribed stock, and in many instances that is the only security in which they are allowed to invest trust funds. So we have a trustee security, with a guaranteed rate of interest, and the bills which the right honorable gentleman described as 1 0 U's can be cashed at any dme by the Treasury when they fall due, or can be discounted prior to the date of maturity if the money be needed. The only purpose of the argument advanced by the right honorable gentleman is to mislead the committee, and deceive the country as to the nature of the Government's transactions. Certainly, it is a most unreal argument, and one that should be dissipated for the benefit of the country. {: #debate-35-s3 .speaker-J7U} ##### Dame ENID LYONS:
Darwin -- I confess to a feeling of very great disappointment. I came into this Parliament nearly three years ago. In' the first speech that I made, I professed what might be termed my political faith. I remember particularly pointing to the need for the encouragement of youth in this country; the need for the encouragement of the birthrate. I mentioned certain factors in our domestic economy which militated against that desirable objective. I referred particularly to the basic wage and its operation, and said that it was too meagre. I claimed that it was assessed on a wrong basis, that . it should be determined according to the needs of a man and his wife - or, shall I say, a man and a dependant;, in other words, a double unit - and that the children should be a charge upon the general community. I believed that if I waited long enough, when the war was over and the financial position showed some signs of making it feasible, this Government would take steps to ensure something of that kind. But I have looked' in vain -for that reform in the measure that is now before us, providing, as it does, for certain things that are very well worth, while,, but excluding other things of very much more importance. The Government proposes certain measures which will mean an increase of income for a large number of old-age pensioners, and will make it possible for other persons to become eligible for the pension. With that, I am heartily in accord. But I suggest that, having regard to the future, it is much more necessary to concentrate upon the other end of the scale, and that far better results would accrue if .we did so. It is" generally agreed at the present time that the basic wage does not adequately meet the needs of even the smallest family. That is a matter of general opinion. But it is also, as I see it, easily demonstrated from statistics, because of one particular fact: The regimen that is used to determine the variation of the basic wage includes a certain number of items.' I particularly draw attention to the fact that the basic wage is not assessed on those items; but from time to time the variation is decided upon them, because they are regarded as a means for obtaining an indication of the variations of the cost of living. Each of the items appearing thereon represents a group of commodities that are necessary to the living of a family. I point out, however, that there is one group of foods which, next to dairy products, are regarded as the most important preventive foods that may bo given to children. They are represented by one item, and that item does not help us in any way to get a true picture of the cost of the group. I refer to fruits and vegetables, which every dietitian in the world to-day insists mustform a part of a well-balanced diet, particularly for young people. The only item in the " C " series which represents that group is potatoes; and for very good reasons. Throughout the last several years the price of potatoes has been maintained artificially at a low level. Therefore, the increase of cost in that particular group of foods has never entered in any way into a variation of the basic wage and the cost of living. Until the basic wage is revised, many people in this country will not get the right quantity of foods to maintain them in health. Every survey that has been made in the last few years shows that to be true - that there are thousands of undernourished children in this country. {: .speaker-JVH} ##### Mr Mountjoy: -- That has always been the case. {: .speaker-J7U} ##### Dame ENID LYONS: -- That has always been the case. It has been, and still is, partly due to the fact that the people have not been sufficiently well instructed as to the kinds of food that should be consumed. It' is also true that people on the basic wage have not the means to provide a sufficiency of those foods. So, I look to the time when the basic wage will be revised. This Parliament has no power to do that. But it has in its hands a power which could have been, but has not been, used to clear the way, at any rate for some improvement - that is, by extension of the child endowment to cover the first child. In respect of every family, that would have the effect of raising the basic wage by 7s. 6d. a week, without, as happens under the present system, giving to a large number of people with no family responsibilities a rise equal to that obtained by those who have assumed such responsibilities. I am perfectly well aware that, at the present time, one of the difficulties that we face is the circulation of too much money relative to the volume of goods that may be purchased. I suggest, however, that the sort of goods which would be purchased by the family man, as. a result of my proposal, are not, for the most part, in the class of. goods that I have mentioned, namely, those that are in short supply. We are not short of food, but we are short of the organization that will ensure its proper distribution. Money diverted into the hands of the mother of a family would be expended in legitimate channels and would not have the same impact on the national economy that any other increase would have. All spending will be in legitimate channels and we shall not have the inflationary tendency that follows when money is put into the hands of persons lacking proper responsibility. Some people will say that this is not the proper time to introduce a reform of the kind that I advocate. Obviously, the Governmentbelieves that it is not. However, the Government can find money for a thousand other things, and this is something that we cannot afford to neglect, because it is really an insurance for the future. We are now creating a tremendous hospital organization, the cost of which will be staggering, and we think we are doing something splendid ; but if we founded our social services on the wellbeing of the children there would be no need to assume such a staggering burden for health services. An extension of child endowment is the first reform that any government with a sense of responsibility should undertake. It would ensure a better family life in the future for children born into thehomes, a better chance of getting help for mothers who have to carry out the duties connected with the raising of children, and a better chance, also, for the men who, in the future, should be expected . to produce still larger families. We are all the time dying but for population, and the neglect of this end of the age scale can be no longer excused. I repeat that I am bitterly disappointed that the Government has not seen fit to do what I suggest. I will not rest until this matter of child endowment, which was- introduced by a government representing parties on this side of the House at a most difficult period of our history, i3 extended as it ought to be. I have believed up to the present that the time was not opportune to make a move. However, the time is now ripe, and unless the Government takes appropriate action it will be condemned by the people who put their faith in it in the past. {: #debate-35-s4 .speaker-JNX} ##### Mr BARNARD:
Bass .- During the last few minutes, we have listened to a most extraordinary speech on this measure, the purpose of which is to provide a method of financing the social services of the country. Naturally, honorable members on this side of the House are interested in the subject of the basic wage, and in measures designed to improve the "standard of living of parents and children, and, indeed, of the whole community. At the moment, however, the committee is not considering that aspect of the basic wage, or related subjects. It is dealing with a measure to impose a tax on incomes for the financing of social services which have' been introduced during the last two or three years by the present Government. I am very interested in social services, because it has been my privilege, during the last few years, to look very closely at the shortcomings of social service provisions in Australia. Working. with me on the Social Security Committee were members representing all parties in this Parliament. From time to time, the committee made recommendations to the Government, which later brought down legislation to give effect to them. The recommendations were themselves based on evidence submitted to the Social Service Committee by witnesses representing all sections of the community. There is now in operation a whole range of social services designed for the uplift and betterment of the people. These include provisions to deal with unemployment and sickness, and others designed for the special benefit of families. The honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons) departed from the realms of reality and practical politics as they apply at the moment. In no other period of the history of Australia has so much been done in so short a time for the uplift of the people as has been done by this Government, despite the fact that during most of the time the country was at war. It seems to me highly improper that the honorable member for Darwin should attack the measure before the committee in the way she did. Everybody knows that the basic wage is out moded, that it has its short-comings, but what did honorable members on the opposition side ever do about it when they had the opportunity? What would they do if they were in power to-morrow? What did they do when an attempt was made to obtain increased power for this Parliament, so. that it might legislate in respect of some of the matters mentioned by the honorable member for Darwin? While she may have been, in her own mind, opposed to the policy of her political friends, she nevertheless used the air to support that policy, and to oppose the very things which she now advocates. It is time that somebody told the honorable member for Darwin the truth, and dia. regarded for the moment the fact that she is' the only woman in the House. We all meet here on equal -terms, and I am becoming just" a little tired of listening to what is described outside this House as " sob stuff because that is what it amounts to. There may be, and. I believe there are, short-comings in our social services as they now exist. I say that, not in apology for the Government, because it has not yet had time to give full effect to Labour policy. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- We shall do that in the next Parliament. {: .speaker-JNX} ##### Mr BARNARD: -- That is so. We shall advance progressively, .and later on the honorable member for Darwin will have an opportunity to support, not only with her voice, but also with her vote, measures for the betterment of the people about which she talks so much now. The Labour Government is marching forward- {: .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944 -- And marching very badly. {: .speaker-JNX} ##### Mr BARNARD: -- At any rate, we on this side of the House act in unison, but evidently the honorable member for Darwin is not in step with the honorable member for Wentworth **(Mr. Harrison),** because she went into the electorate of the honorable member recently, and advocated the election of more women to Parliament. She practically suggested . that **Mrs. Jessie** Street should replace the present honorable member for Wentworth. If the honorable member for Darwin will read the recommendations of the Social Security Committee she will see what the Government is aiming at in the way of social services. She will then be in a better position to understand what the Government has done, and is doing - not merely talking about - for the less fortunate people of the community in a most difficult time in our country's history. *Silting suspended from 6 to S p.m.* {: #debate-35-s5 .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper .- I 'sympathize with and support the views, expressed by the honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons) as to -the desirability of including the first ' child in the benefits of the child endowment scheme. Very grave consideration would have to be given to the subject in order to bring about that desirable result in the best possible way. We should, at all costs, make certain that any liberalization of the child endowment payments shall be permanent. We have no desire to bring about a repetition of the factors which ultimately broke down the child endowment system in New South Wales. In the original Child Endow-, ment Bill, brought down in this Parliament by the honorable member for Fawkner **(Mr. Holt),** then Minister for Labour and National Service, the first child was excluded from benefit because the basic wage was deemed to provide for the needs of a man, his wife and one child. I believe that the time has now come when the basis on which the basic . wage is determined should be altered to cover the' requirements of a man and his wife only, and that all children should be brought within the scope of the child endowment scheme. At the same time, I urge that the regimen on which the basic wage is computed should be reviewed. In stead ..of the basic wage . being computed on the basis of 40 or 50 items, 'we might very well adopt the New Zealand system, in which 110 or 120 items are taken into account, including the items mentioned by the honorable member for Darwin. Investigation and review along those lines is long overdue. The only way in which provision for such a change could be made in the bill now before us would be to wipe out some of the benefits the Government has included in it, in order to provide sufficient money in the National Welfare Fund for the payment of child endowment in respect of all children. The Government is not likely to adopt that course. The only other way would be to introduce an .entirely new bill. I should like to see established a self-contained child endowment fund. When the original legislation was introduced by the honorable member for Fawkner, approximately 90 per cent, of the contributions to the fund were derived from the pay-roll tax, and the balance, to cover anomalies which were discovered as experience was gained of the operation of the scheme, was to be met from general revenue. In my view, all social service funds should be made as self-contained as is possible. If they are made too' much dependent upon contributions from general revenue, sooner or later the benefits will have to be scrapped or reduced because of the diminution of tax receipts in days of financial stringency. I am totally opposed to the imposition of taxes earmarked for special purposes, as is done in connexion with the National Welfare Fund, unless adequate steps are taken to ensure that the funds so raised are sufficient, to carry out the purpose for which they are provided, without reliance on other budgetary assistance. As instances of sound schemes of that kind I cite the Commonwealth Superannuation Fund and the Federal Aid Roads Fund. Reference to the last budget papers submitted to the Parliament shows that the contributions to' the Commonwealth Superannuation Fund are invested in Com-, monwealth Consolidated Stock, the New South Wales Rural Bank, and debentures issued by the Sydney County Council, all of which return an interest rate of 4 or 5 per cent. The moneys placed to the credit of the National Welfare Fund, however, are largely invested in treasurybills, or what may be described as Government IOU's. In the one case the assets are realizable on the market, whereas in the other they merely represent a changeover from one compartment of the public purse to another. I am especially opposed to reliance on taxes imposed year by year for social services of this nature. The danger in this system is that in any sudden upset of our national economy taxes may not be able to be levied and services may consequently have to be diminished at a time when their continuance is of the highest national and individual importance. In my opinion, the proper way to finance social benefits is by means ofa contributory scheme, not subject to a means test, that would build up in good years a fund, unassailable by the Treasurers of the day, which would be able to meet the pinch of lean years. {: .speaker-L08} ##### Mr Rosevear: -- Would not such a fund fall in bad years just as the receipts from taxation would fall? {: .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE: -- No; the assets in the fund would be available just as are the assets of insurance funds and the Commonwealth Superannuation Fund, the beneficiaries of which are paid in the years of depression just as they are in the years of plenty. Australia has had very striking lessons' in that regard.Mr. Fisher first introduced the maternity allowance without a means test. A Labour Treasurer, **Mr. Theodore,** on the 10th July, 1931, however; reduced the long-standing maternity allowance from £5 to £4, and brought in a law which provided that the allowance would not be paid in cases where the income of the claimant and her husband during the preceding twelve months exceeded £260. It has taken fifteen years to restore the maternity allowance to a proper basis. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- Did not the right honorable gentleman vote for its reduction? {: .speaker-C7E} ##### Sir EARLE PAGE: -I did not. If honorable members will read the *Hansard* record they will find that in 1932 I solidly voted for the retention of the invalid and old-age pension in this chamber through the whole of a long all-night sitting. In 1931 I was in bed with appendicitis for two months, and was not in the House during the period when the proposal to reduce the maternity allowance was discussed. The records of the Parliament will prove the truth of that statement. As then Leader of, the Country party I said, as I say now, that the best means of lifting people out of the effects of troublous times is not by increasing but by diminishing the burden of taxation. When I was able to return to active politics following the death of my son in 1933, I supported every move which would enable the country to return to a state of prosperity. In 1931 invalid and oldage pensions were reduced by a Labour Treasurer by 2s. 6d. a week. In the following year a similar reduction was effected because of the difficult position that had arisen as the result of the failure of the Government to collect the desired revenue from taxation. The Labour Government also reduced the permissible income of applicants for the invalid and old-age pension from £84 10s. to £78 per annum, and war pensions were for the first time treated as income for the purpose of calculating the social pension. An abortive attempt was also made to treat the value of the pensioner's home over and above £500 as property. These reductions were made despite the fact that the Labour Government had introduced a new tax, the sales tax, which touched the people in the lower income groups to a greater degree relatively than those in the higher income groups. The obvious alternative to this system, which was so subject to a downward alteration with depressed conditions, was a national contributory scheme to cover the whole field. Such a scheme was introduced by me in 1928, and by a subsequent Treasurer, **Mr. Casey,** in 1938; but on both occasions the Labour party strenuously opposed it. As a very unsatisfactory alternative, the present Treasurer, in February, 1943, established the National Welfare Fund, ostensibly for the purpose of making the future safe for the recipients of the benefits. On the 11th February, 1943, he proposed to pay into this fund out of general revenue an amount of £30,000,000 a year, or a sum equal to onequarter of the total annual collections from the income tax of individuals, whichever was the less. In order to finance this fund, he increased the income tax on individuals by an amount of £43,000,000, and reduced the income tax exemption from £156 to £104 per annum. He also made the personal exertion rate commence at 6d.inthe £1 on £104 and rise to a maximum of 18s. 6d. in the £1 on incomes in excess of £5,000 per annum. In effect, this permanently fixed Commonwealth income tax collectionson individuals at £120,000,000 per annum at the least. It also fixed for all time a permanent income tax on the lowest scalesof wages and salaries. He admitted disguising the volume of this tax by increasing the number of instalments from 40 to 52 each year. On the 29 th September, 1943, the Treasurer took pride in this accomplishment when he said that, as an important contribution to the budget, the Government had obtained the approval of the Parliament in the previous March to increase the rates and widen the field of income taxation on individuals. The right honorable gentleman said- >The increased yield is expected to exceedlast year's collection by£43,000,000, and this will cover the requirements of the National Welfare Fund and make some provision for other expenditure. In his budget for 1943-44, the Treasurer showed the first payment into the fund as £29,750,000, and in the succeeding year, a payment of £30,000,000, even though very few payments were being made out of the fund owing to the failure by the Government to obtain parliamentary endorsement for, or to implement, the necessary legislation. The Leader of the Australian Country party has shown conclusively that this fund has been used for other purposes, and that the balances that remain are represented only by treasury-bills. In the financial year 1945-46, the Treasurer realized that this original tax was not quite sufficient to meet the position, and effectively prevented any lightening of the income tax burden on individuals. In his budget for that year, he said that a new approach was essential, and that he would " charge all health and social services to one fund - the National Welfare Fund - and impose a social services contribution at a flat rate on all incomes from the lowest up ". He estimated that a tax of 18d., as a flat rate, would return £46,000,000 per annum, and that expenditure in 1945- 46 would amount to £65,000,000. In his financial statement for 1946-47, he esti mated that the income of the National Welfare Fund would be£61,000,000, and that expenditure would amount to £77,000,000, leaving a deficiency of £16,000,000. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! The right honorable member's time has expired. {: #debate-35-s6 .speaker-KRI} ##### Mr SHEEHY:
Boothby .- Efforts by honorable members opposite to discredit what the Labour party has done in the field of social services fall flat in view of its great achievements some of which occurred in the years when we had to battle against a hostile Senate. I remind honorable members that it was not till two years ago that the influx of Labour adherents . to the Senate gave full effect to the will of the people expressed at the general elections in 1943. Ashort recital of what we have done would not go amiss in view of the belittling statements from honorable gentlemen opposite. We have increased expenditure on social benefits from £.17,000,000 to £77,000,000 a year, a truly remarkable achievement in view ofthe fact that we also had to pilot this nation through the greatest war in history. We have been attacked for not having done something about the basic wage. Any one would think that honorable gentlemenopposite instituted all social reforms in this country. Why, they claim credit for child . endowment. {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr Holt: -- The honorable member has a poor memory if he does not remember that child endowment was introduced by the Menzies Government. {: .speaker-KRI} ##### Mr SHEEHY: -- Child endowment was in operation before then, and it was instituted by a Labour government. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr Spender: -- Where ? {: .speaker-KRI} ##### Mr SHEEHY: -- In New South Wales. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr Spender: -- Speak about what this Parliament has done. {: .speaker-KRI} ##### Mr SHEEHY: -- I am talking about child endowment. The history of child endowment in the Commonwealth sphere is interesting. The basic wage was being reviewed by the Full Bench of the Arbitration Court, and,on the evidence before it, there was no doubt that it would have increased the basic wage by 5s. or 7s. a week, but the anti-Labour government forestalled it by introducing child endowment under which 5s. a week was paid in respect of every child under the age of sixteen after the first. Had the basic wage been increased, the employing class' in this community would have been called upon to pay out millions of pounds, but instead the Menzies Government relieved the employers of the responsibility by paying child endowment out of the Treasury. It remained for the Labour Government to make the child endowment a more respectable amount byincreasing it 50 per cent. Our policy is that the family man can most be helped by family allowances. We do know, however, that both the rate and the method of compilation of the basic wage ought to be reviewed. There is no need for me to stress the obvious. Every one knows what we have done in providing social benefits. Before the last general elections, hundreds of women 'said to me, "We must vote for the Labour party because of the great job that it has done for us ". Honorable gentlemen opposite have the temerity to criticize our methods, but their criticism is not echoed by the people, whereas the national insurance scheme that was passed by this Parliament during the Lyons regime, but was never operated, was treated with hostility throughout the community. I know of no other legislation that has received such a cold reception. Meetings of protest against it were held all over the land. About £90,000 was expended on taking evidence about the practicability of that scheme, but it never came into force. Even if it had operated, the benefits provided would have been negligible compared with those that this Government has bestowed on the people. The National Health and Pensions Insurance Scheme was sectional in character and it covered only a section of the people. The act provided unequal benefits for men and women. The amount of sickness benefit was only 20s. a week to a man and 15s. a week to a woman. It made no provision for medical treatment of a wife or dependent children. A man had to pay1s. 6d. a week for . himself for health insurance and an old-age pension, and if he wanted his wife to receive a pension at 60 years of age he had to pay another1s. 6d. a week. If he wanted medical treatment for his wife and children he had to join a friendly society. Apart from all the other long terms in office that the antiLabour forcesenjoyed, they had from 1932 to 1941 to do something tangible for the people, but did nothing except pass the abortive National Health and Pensions Act. So reactionary are they that I know that when the referendum campaign is being waged they will strenuously oppose this Parliament obtaining power to control conditions of employment in industry so that it shall be able to do more for the workers. {: #debate-35-s7 .speaker-L0G} ##### Mr RYAN:
Flinders -- I was amazed by the unfriendly attitude of the honorable member for Bass **(Mr. Barnard)** towards the proposal of the honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons) that child endowment should be paid in respect of the first child in a family, I should have thought of all people he would support that. I am led to wonder what are the views of his colleagues. He described her speech as extraordinary, but her proposal is sound, and I have no doubt that before long it will be adopted. The Labour party professes interest in larger families and more family comforts, but the honorable member for Bass does not seem to share that interest. It is true that the Social Security Committee, of which I am privileged to be a member, has made many recommendations in respect of social services, most of which, I am glad tosay, have been adopted. In the last two years the committee has mainly concentrated on medical and hospital benefits, as requested by the Government, but it hasnot been asked to make any recommendation to the Government about family allowances, which are of the greatest importance. The honorable member for Bass saidthat as this bill dealt with the raising of the money for social services it was improper for the honorable member for Darwin to raise the matter of child endowment, but the social services at present operative are mostly of a negative character. In other words, they provide benefits to help grown people over misfortune, sickness and old age. They are entitled to that help,, but. of more benefit, to, the. country would' he steps, to. enable, people to avoid the. need. to. seek many of those benefits. The honorable, member for Darwin, proposes something of great wisdom, The structure of the nation should be based on the. family unit, and we should devote more attention to infants and children, who require assistance more than any one else in the community does. The honorable member for Darwin pointed out that the basic wage to-day is not adequate for the needs of a family of three - husband, wife and one child. Indeed, the basic wage is less than what that family unit requires. The standard on which the basic wage is fixed does not conform to present conditions, particularly category 3, which contains a large number of protective foods for the maintenance of the health of the individual. During the last few years, the price of those ' foods has increased greatly. The prices of vegetables, have risen by between 50 per cent, and 60 per cent. Eggs, which are not subsidized, are much dearer than they were a few years ago. The price of fruit, which forms an important part of the diet of a family, has increased considerably. All those foods are not taken into the calculations when the basic wage is being computed. Rents and the cost of clothing also have increased steeply in the last few years. As those alterations have not been taken into account, a family is not able to live comfortably on the basic wage and maintain its health. Therefore, the basic wage should be re-assessed on a new and sounder basis. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- "Why not allow the Commonwealth Parliament to determine the basic wage? {: .speaker-L0G} ##### Mr RYAN: -- Because the Parliament is not the proper authority to do so. In my opinion, family allowances should be payable in. addition to the basic- wage. I consider that the basic wage should be fixed on the basis of the needs of a man and his wife, and a family allowance should be added to it. The honorable member for Boothby **(Mr. Sheehy)** mentioned that the Labour Government of New South Wales was the first government in Australia to introduce child endowment. Whilst that statement may be correct, I point out- that this Parliament deals,, not- with. New. South Wales alone, but with the whole of Australia. The Menzies Government has the ' credit for having introduced' a scheme of- child: en:dowment applicable to the Commonwealth as a whole. After the next elec ti'ons, a government formed by honorable members on this side of the chamber will deal with child' endowment. I commend the honorable member for Darwin for having raised this matter. {: #debate-35-s8 .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY:
Lang .- We have listened to many speeches to-day on this very important measure, and the general complaint of honorable members opposite is that Australians are very heavily taxed. Some honorable members even contended- I do not agree with them- that we are the. heaviest taxed people in the world. But even if we were, we live in the best country in the world. However, the truth is that we happen to be one of the most lightly taxed peoples. {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr Holt: -- We used to be. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- The figures prove, that my statement is correct. {: #debate-35-s9 .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr SPENDER: -- I hope that the honorable member will tell his constituents that. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- The honorable member for Warringah **(Mr. Spender)** spoke a good deal about taxing people in the lower income groups. His remarks did not deceive any one, because honorable members opposite are not the friends of the people in the lower income groups. They are here to help the more highly paid, and the wealthy sections of the community. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- And those people only. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- *For* six years, Australia was engaged in the greatest war in history. Our expenditure on the conduct of the war amounted to £1,000,000 a day. Now that we have won the war, we must provide money for re-establishment benefits for exservicemen. Naturally, the Government must impose taxation in order to meet that obligation. I do not know of any one in Australia who honestly complains about excessive taxation. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order ! I ask the honorable memberto direct his remarks to the motion? {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -We are considering the social services contribution; and in order to finance our social services legislation, we must have money. When we measure our conditions with those under which the people of Europe live, and even those under which our friends in the United States live, we realize that we are in a very happy position. Like honorable members opposite, I have to pay a considerable' amount of tax for social services and repatriation benefits,but I do not grumble about it. If a Labour Government had not been in office during the last five years, we might not now have the right to impose taxation. {: .speaker-N76} ##### Mr Menzies: -- I hope that the honorable member will keep a straight face. I am afraid that he is about to smile. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- I am serious about it. Although the Leader of the Opposition **(Mr. Menzies)** is sincere in many respects, he leads a number- of conservatives and must do their bidding. The money which we provide for social services will help to build up the nation. May I repeat a statement which has been made with truth many times in this House, that many young men who enlisted in World War II. were the product of the years of the economic depression {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr Holt: -- The Minister for Immigration **(Mr. Calwell)** made a similar statement, and regretted it. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- I do not regret it, because it is the truth, as the honorable member forFawkner **(Mr. Holt)** knows. He was one who enlisted for a few weeks- {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr Holt: -- I did, and the honorable member did not. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! I ask the honorable member for Lang to direct his remarks to the motion, and address the Chair. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -I recall that in 1932, the right honorable member for Cowper **(Sir Earle Page)** was instrumental in reducing invalid and old-age pensions. If he did not happen to be in the chamber when the division was' taken, he was "paired" on that occasion. At that time, the Government took the properties of invalid and old-age pensioners. I am not quite satisfied that the Government has gone far enough in providing social service benefits. I hope that when the Labour Government is returned after the forthcoming elections invalid and old-age pensions and widows' pensions will be increased. I believe that the Labour Government will increase child endowment. Those are the things that matter to-day. The people who complain about excessive taxation to provide social services should examine the conditions under which people live in other countries. Then they would realize that we in Australia are in a very happy position. We live in the best country in the world, and we are the lowest-taxed people in the world. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- And we have the best Government in the world. {: .speaker-JVJ} ##### Mr MULCAHY: -- I believe that the people will return the Government with an overwhelming majority. {: #debate-35-s10 .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY:
Richmond .- The honorablemember for Lang **(Mr. Mulcahy)** spoke hopefully,but not very confidently, of this " best Government in the world governing the best country in the world " being returned to office. In discussing this motion, I desire to read an extract from a Labour newspaper which gives the best possible description of the hollowness and shallowness of this alleged Labour Government's efforts on behalf of the workers. {: .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr Fuller: -- What is the newspaper? {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: *-The Century.* {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- One of the " kept " organs of the Liberal party. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- Once upon a time, the gentleman who now directs the *Century* was hailed by the honorable member forLang, who had been a member of the Lang party, as a leader " greater than Lenin ". The **CHAIRMAN (Mr. Riordan).Order!** Will the honorable member relate his remarks to the motion? {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- I shall read an extract from an editorial published in the *Century* on the 19th July. It states - >The workers have nothing to thank the socalled Federal Labour governments for. It was the Scullin Government, under stress of the depression, which gave us the sales tax in all its viciousness. > >You can't alter the character or unpleasantness of castor oil merely by changing its name. > >But it has remained for the Chifley Government to make it a permanent feature of our income tax laws that practically every income, no matter how small, must pay income tax. The *Century* also published other statements in the same strain concerning the social services legislation of this Government. Honorable gentlemen opposite pretend that they are friends of the wageearners, and that the Government has introduced a social services programme which is free, but, in effect, far heavier payments are being extracted . from the workers than would be required for first-class service, of the same kind by non-government means. The Minister for Immigration **(Mr. Calwell)** has nterjected to the effect that the scheme will not cost as much as bananas from my farm; but the honorable gentleman is merely trying to divert attention from- my statements. However, I intend to proceed to expose the hollow hyprocrisy of the so-called free social service programme of this Government. Any services that are being provided will be paid for at high rates by the entire community, and working men will have to bear a heavy share of the hurden. Do honorable gentlemen opposite realize that a man earning £7 8s. a week, who has a wife and two children, will be required to pay £27 17s. 6d. a year for these benefits? The rate of payment will he ls. 6d. a- week. This is what the Government calls a " free " service. The National Welfare Fund, which should have to its' credit between £50,000,000 and £60,000,000, but which, we know, is not in credit at all, was established to meet the cost of a long list of benefits which include invalid and. oldage pensions, widows' pensions, maternity allowance, child endowment, funeral benefits, unemployment and sickness benefits, pharmaceutical and hospital benefits, tuberculosis benefits, and rent rebates under the Government's housing plan. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- Not a bad first instalment. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- No doubt the Minister for Immigration will be touring the country very shortly declaring from public platforms that this Government has done a marvellous job in providing such a long list of benefits^ According, to the financial statement made by the Treasurer a few days ago, the services which I have just enumerated cost £53,161,585 in 1945-46, but honorable gentlemen should realize that, of that total, £50,721,423 was required for invalid and old-age pensions, widows' pensions, maternity allowance and child endowment, all of which were provided free, and_ without special tax, by previous governments.' So much for the claims of this so-called beneficent Labour Government. The amounts that the wage-earners will be required to pay for the benefits that they receive is worthy of a little more comment. Air. Mulcahy. - Is the honorable gentleman opposed to the provision of those benefits? {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- I am about to reveal to the taxpayers how much, the benefits will cost. A wage-earner in receipt of £125 a year will be required to pay a social services tax of 5s. a week, and a man on a salary of £7 8s. week, with a wife and two children, will be required to pay a tax of ls. 6d. a week, or £27 17s. 6d. .a year. He could obtain practically the same hospital benefits for. himself and his family for a payment of 9d. a week to the ' Grand United Order of Oddfellows, and he could obtain a funeral benefit for a few pence more a week. As a matter of fact practically every one of the benefits which the Government is providing could be obtained by joining any one of a- number of wellestablished friendly societies in this country, and at a quarter of the cost which the Government is about to impose. But there is a worse side to the story. The. Menzies Government was instrumental in having placed on the statutebook legislation for a national health and pensions scheme under which employees would pay ls. 6d. a week on the average, and employers a similar amount, for invalid and old-age pensions and insurance benefits, without the application of the means test. *Honorable membersinterjecting,* {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order ! There are far too many interjections. The honorable member for Richmond is entitled' to be heard in silence. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- Honorable gentlemen opposite do not like having the weaknesses of their scheme exposed. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: **Mr. Calwell** *interjecting,* {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- I congratulate the *Sydney Morning Herald* on having caricatured the Minister for Immigration as a cockatoo. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! The honorable member for Richmond is provoking the Minister to interject. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- I agree, **Mr. Chairman,** that I am provoking all the supporters of the Government to interject. They do not like the hollowness of their professions to be exposed. They do not like the public to be told the truth about the legislation that is being submitted to Parliament. The social services contribution which will be required under this measure will be a definite burden on the wage-earning community. A man earning £385 a year, who has a wife and two children to maintain - an average family man - will not be pleased at having to contribute £27 17s. 6d. a year for social service benefits, most of which were being provided free by the Menzies and Fadden Governments. Such persons are valuable members of the community, though they would be even more valuable if their families were larger. This impost will fall on many artisans, tradesmen, and clerks. I do not think any one will disagree with my statement that an impost of £27 17s. 6d. a year on a man who is earning little more than £7 a week will be a hardship, especially as he will receive for it very little more in social benefits than he was previously receiving without any such tax. The Government's policy in respect of social services offers no inducement to thrift. Under the national health and pensions scheme enacted by the previous Government there was no. means test. For a payment of a few pounds a year all citizens would have been entitled to the prescribed benefits, but under the scheme now before us a man who owns his own home and has an income of £2 or £3 a week will be denied any benefits of an insurance character. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- That is definitely untrue. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- I said that he would get no benefits of an insurance character. By that I mean invalid and old-age pensions. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- That also is untrue. {: .speaker-JLZ} ##### Mr ANTHONY: -- The benefits of the Government's scheme will not be available to prudent and thrifty citizens who have saved a few -pounds to provide comforts for themselves in their declining years. I am not surprised that honorable gentlemen opposite have interjected so freely during my speech, for I have touched them " on the raw ", and have exposed the claim that the Government is doing something to assist the wageearners. Honorable gentlemen opposite claim to represent the wage-earners, but in fact they merely batten on working people and pretend to be their champions. The workers will be required to contribute heavily for any social services they receive as the result of the legislation of this Government. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- The honorable member's time has expired. {: #debate-35-s11 .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr BRYSON:
Bourke .- We have listened to some extraordinary speeches during this discussion and the preceding debate on the income tax measure. I do not know whether honorable gentlemen opposite are attempting deliberately to mislead the committee, or whether they are making statements through utter stupidity, or whether they have been telling bare-faced lies ; but the honorable member for Richmond **(Mr. Anthony)** certainly excelled himself, and went a good deal farther than most of his colleagues in making wild and ridiculous statements concerning the contribution proposed to be levied for social services. He said that a man with an income of£125 a year would be called upon to pay 5s. a week in social services contribution. The official statement issued to honorable members by the Treasurer indicated that a man with an income of £125 a year and no dependants would have to pay only £3 4s. a year, which is a great deal less than 5s. a week. I do not know whether the honorable member . can be excused on the ground that his arithmetic was at fault, but he went on to refer to , a man with a wife and two children whose income was £385 a year. He attempted to prove that the social services contribution payable by that man is out of proportion to the benefit that he will receive from the social services fund. His income tax of £27 17s. 6d. a year, he claimed, is most unfair. Buthe conveniently forgot to mention that the wife of such a man receives from the National Welfare Fund £19 10s. a year by way of child endowment. In deliberately omitting to mention that, he merely followed the lead that had been set by previous Opposition speakers, who attempted to misrepresent the position in regard to tax reductions. Almost without exception, honorable members opposite have claimed that the tax reductions proposed by the Government are insufficient, and that a much greater reduction should be made over the whole of the income tax field. The honorable member for Warringah **(Mr. Spender)** not only wanted the income tax to be reduced, but also demanded a big reductionof the company tax. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr Spender: -- I demanded some reduction. {: #debate-35-s12 .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr BRYSON:
BOURKE, VICTORIA · ALP -- We will allow the honorable member to change his mind. {: .speaker-KUG} ##### Mr Spender: -- I have not changed my mind. The honorable member is misrepresenting me. {: .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr BRYSON: -According to his latest statement, the honorable member demanded some reduction. Almost every other member of the Opposition has demanded further tax reductions. Some of them have gone even further. The honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons), for example, demanded that the Government should immediately pay child endowment in respect of the first child. Such an extension of the scheme would involve an additional expenditure fromthe National Welfare Fund of £18,000,000 per annum. The honorable member for Flinders **(Mr. Ryan)** supported that proposal, and also spoke in favour of the reductionof income tax, the company tax, and various other taxes. {: .speaker-L0G} ##### Mr Ryan: -- That is not correct. {: .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr BRYSON: -- If members of the Opposition were reasonably honest, when demanding additional expenditure on social services they would suggest where the additional revenue could be raised. Demanding in one breath that income tax shall be substantially reduced, and in the next breath that social service payments shall be increased, does not make sense. Those honorable members opposite who intend to contribute to the debate would assist the committee if they were to make sensible suggestions, not all sorts of demands with tongue in cheek. Had they the opportunity, they would not do what they claim should be done. Members of the Opposition have also dragged the basic wage into the debate, and have claimed that it needs to be revised. I agree that it should be revised upward. Such a revision should have been made many years ago. I remind honorable members opposite that about 1918 or 1919 the government of the day, led by the present right honorable member for North Sydney **(Mr. Hughes),** appointed what was known as the Piddington Basic Wage Royal Commission, which conducted the most exhaustive inquiry into the cost of living that has ever been made in Australia. The commission was representative of employers and employees, and the chairman was appointed by an anti-Labour government. In a unanimous report, it recommended a considerable increase of the basic wage, and drew up a complete regimen for the fixing of it on the basis of the costs of food, rent, &c. The Government refused to accept that unanimous report; and in all the subsequent years the anti-Labour governments that have been in office did not make a genuine effort to improve the basic wage. Rather, they endeavoured at every opportunity to grind the worker down a little further,' and take from him some of the very meagre wage he was receiving. Now that the members of the parties which then composed the Government are in the cold shades of Opposition, they suggest that the basic wage should be revised. If they were given the. task, Iam sure that the revision would be downward rather than upward. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -Their basic wage in the depression was 6s. a week. {: .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr BRYSON: -- That is so. Some anti-Labour governments provided even less than that. Advocacy of the revision of the basic wage may appear to be very good window-dressing before a general election. I have been agitating for its revision for many years. As a member of the industrial movement, I have endeavoured to induce various anti-Labour governments to revise it upward, but on all occasions I received scant courtesy from them. When the present Government submits a proposal for the improvement of the basic wage, honorable members opposite will violently oppose it, as they have opposed every proposal designed to benefit the more poorly paid section of the community. This Government has endeavoured to do things. So far it has succeeded in conferring quite a number of benefits on that section of the community which needs them most. It has not been ' able to make the strides it would like to have made; nevertheless, it has improved the lot of the lower-paid section of the community. I remind the Opposition that in a short period, it increased the old-age pension from £1 ls. to £1 12s. 6d. a week. That could have been done years ago. According to honorable members opposite, the old people can exist on £1 ls. a week; therefore- they should not be given more than that. This Government increased the child endowment from 5s. to 7s. 6d. a week. In future legislation it will provide for an increase of the income which an invalid or an old-age pensioner will be permitted to earn and still be entitled to the pension. It also intends to liberalize the conditions under which those pensions may be obtained. It has made provision for unemployment, sickness and hospital benefits, and will continue to improve its record in regard to the conferring of social benefits. But these cost money, and that need is the basis of the proposals we are now considering, which have caused members of the Opposition to shed " crocodile tears " on behalf of the lower-paid section of the community. I remind those honorable members .that their national insurance proposals would oblige the lower paid section of the community to pay for those benefits at a considerably higher rate than is involved in the proposals of the Govern ment, which has decided to apply what it believes to be a fair system for the raising of -the revenue that will be needed. . Tax is being imposed according to ability to pay. The person with the largest income will make ' the greatest contribution. He is in a position to do so. Probably he will- not derive any benefit from the National Welfare Fund. The person on the low income will make the least contribution. The man with a wife and two children on £385 a year who pays an income tax of £27 17s. 6d., referred to by the honorable member for Richmond, receives, as I have said, £19 10s. a year by way of child endowment, apart from hospital, sickness, unemployment and other benefits to which he will be entitled in return for his payment of a social services contribution of £8 7s. 6d. a year. That is a considerably better proposal than any which the Opposition has advanced. The honorable member for Barker **(Mr. Archie Cameron)** reminded the committee of the national insurance scheme which a government that he supported passed through this Parliament in 193S. Although that legislation became the law of the land, the Government of the day did not attempt to implement it, and it has not yet begun to operate. That is one of the greatest examples of political hypocrisy ever set in this Parliament. The . attempt was made to delude the people into believing that they were being given a social service that they would enjoy for the whole of their lives. Such a scheme would prove exceptionally expensive for the lower-paid section of the community. After leading the people " up the lane " with promises, the Go,vernment left' them there. Having gone so far as to translate its promises into law, it did not have the decency to implement its legislation. No member of the Opposition, since the bill was passed in. 1938, has made a reasonable effort to have the act proclaimed. Even in this year, they still do not want it to be put in operation. Nor do they want the social services legislation of the present Government to be applied. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -The honorable member's time has expired. {: #debate-35-s13 .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT:
Fawkner -- I warmly support the proposal of the honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons), which I believe represents a desirable extension of the child endowment. That reform would meet the needs of the. scheme that we who now sit on the Opposition side of the chamber introduced in 1941. At that time, we made provision by way of a family endowment scheme for each child in the family under sixteen years of age, other than the first child. "We did not include the first child because the Arbitration Court, having investigated the basic wage, had come to the conclusion that it was adequate for a man, his wife and one child. The judges of the court said that it would provide a bare allowance for a man, wife and two children, and that hardship would be caused to a family of more than two children. Therefore, we provided for the needs of a family consisting of more than one child. There is good reason to believe that to-day the need exists for an extension of that scheme, if the requirements of those families in which there are several children, or even only one child, are to be met. That is particularly so when the head of the family is receiving the basic wage, or very little more. As the honorable member for Bourke **(Mr. Bryson)'** pointed out, it is not unusual to have violent dislocations of purchasing power after a war. Indeed, after World War I. a royal commission was set up to go fully into what should be the basic wage, and it recommended a figure so much higher than the then basic wage that the Arbitration Court did not accept the recommendation lest weakened capacity for successful competition might lead to unemployment. Since World War II., similar factors have been' operating. Most honorable members must have reached the conclusion that the method of computing the basic wage is to-day divorced from reality. It is difficult to believe that the basic wage represents a real assessment of the needs of a working man and his family. The official Government view is that the purchasing power of the pound has declined by only 19 per cent., but we all know that the decline is much more than that. A little while ago, I read a newspaper article written by an investigator whom the paper had sent around the shops to price articles.' The examples cited in the article are not extreme, and most honor- able members will be able to recall others of a similar kind. The investigator examined the position in regard to the needs of himself and his wife in the matter of clothing. He could make no comparison in regard to children's clothing from . first-hand knowledge, but a neighbour had handed . over to him the invoices for the purchase of clothing for a boy six years older than his own. Here is the result of his investigations - He added the costs for himself, his wife and his boy. The costs in 1946 were £12 11§. -6d., compared with £6 10s. 3d. in 1940. Then he had a look at some of the .items to which reference was made to-day by the honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons), including fruit and vegetables. It has been impressed upon us that these foods are important as a protection against sickness, but to all intents and purposes they are omitted from the basic wage regimen. For these, items the figures were found to be as follows : - In addition, the scarcity of some of the commodities has frequently caused the housewife to. pay more than the prices mentioned. Although, so far as needs are concerned, we are concerned mostly with persons on the basic wage, we must remember that in Australia few persons are-on the basic wage. In most industries there is a loading for skill, however little skill may be required. This is an additional reason why wages should be reviewed. For instance, in the metal trades, while the basic wage itself has fluctuated according to variation -of the cost of living, margins for skill have remained steady. Consequently, the benefit which the skilled worker formerly enjoyed . as a recompense for his skill has diminished. Let us consider the matter from the point of view of the ex-serviceman. The Army, instead of following the civil practice in regard to child endowment, paid endowment for all children, including . the first. A certain payment was fixed for a single- soldier. Then the married soldier received so much more and if there were children, there was a special . loading for each child. In my opinion, there should be -a basic payment for a man and his wife, and a substantial loading for all children, including the first. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- But that would involve a reduction of the basic wage. {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT: -- Not at all. The loadings already given have not resulted in any reduction. The basic wage in Australia will rise, probably sharply, in the next few years, and this will be an opportunity for the Government or the1 Arbitration Court to work out a new arrangement under which a man and his wife will be regarded as the unit, in assessing the basic wage. Even a single man is usually putting money aside for the time when he will marry, or he may have already assumed responsibility for the maintenance of some members of his family. In the Army, a married private was required to allot 3s. 6d. a day to his wife, making fi 4s. 6d. a week. In addition, his wife was paid fi lis. 6d. for herself, fi ls. for the first child, 14s. for the second, and 10s. 6d. for the third. Thus, apart from what her husband received, a soldier's wife with three children had £5 ls. 6d. a week coming into the home. For his part, the husband, in addition to the pay he retained, received food, clothing and shelter, a certain amount of medical attention, and concessions on certain purchases. It 'was worked out by a parliamentary committee which considered gratuities to servicemen that a private in the Army, with one child, was on a financial basis comparable with that of an industrial worker receiving £8 a week. Today, hundreds of thousands of servicemen are back in civil life. Their families had become accustomed during the war to an income equivalent to £8 a week, which is a comparatively high rate of pay for industrial workers. In fact, the average wage worked out by Government authorities is £5 19s. 8d. for adult male employees engaged in factory employment. The wife of an ex-servicemen, if present rates continue, and if no provision be made for family needs, will be much worse off now than when her husband was in the forces. . What .applies to the wife of a private, applies with greater force to the wife of a non-commissioned officer or to the wife of an officer. It is' obvious that if the living standards which existed' during the war - and they were not regarded as high - are to be maintained 'there must be a general increase' of wages. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- The honorable member's time has expired. {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT: -- As no. other honorable member has risen, I shall take my second period. I have no wish to labour the point, because I am sure that honorable members of all parties will give serious thought to this matter. Parliament must examine the problem carefully, although honorable members may well ask what role Parliament can usefully play. Its capacity to do something practical is limited by various considerations, some of them constitutional and some associated with policy. At the present time, there is a limit under the Constitution to the power of Parliament to deal directly with industrial matters. I am one of those who do not desire to see any extension of the industrial power of the Commonwealth if such extension would take away powers which rightly belong to the States and destroy the need for co-operation between the Commonwealth and the States. If we are to look to the Arbitration Court to remedy this position entirely we shall find that its hands are tied. The court may deal with the question of the basic wage, lt may provide loadings for skill; but it is not competent to make a special family loading according to family needs. In my view the problem calls for solution by both the Arbitration Court and the Parliament, and the role of the Parliament should most properly be exercised along the lines indicated by the honorable member for Darwin (Dame Enid Lyons). We should examine what is the proper family loading to be provided in respect of all children including the first child, and having done that, the court, knowing what provision has been made on the needs basis for the child and the family, can assess as the basic wage what in its view is the highest wage which industry and the community can afford to pay. The Court would have to consider what effect its decision would have on our internal economy, and whether it would prejudice our prospects of competing with other countries in the export markets of the world. That is a matter of the utmost complexity and difficulty. The Parliament should, however, take its measure of responsibility by legislating on that aspect of family allowance. Honorable members opposite have asked how could this be done. The honorable member for Bourke **(Mr. Bryson)** pointed out that a considerable sum of money would be required to give effect to the proposal of the honorable member for Darwin. I believe he estimated the amount to be £18,000,000. On that point I wish to make one or two comments. During the war, with all the exigencies of war finance, governments were able to increase social services to such extent that expenditure under that heading has risen from £17,000,000 to an estimate of £70,000,000, which was the figure cited by the honorable member for Bourke as the total estimated cost of social services that the Government has in mind for the present financial year. All increases of social service benefits were not brought into effect by the present Government. As a matter of fact, the first child endowment scheme was introduced by a government of which I was a member. In the aggregate, however, there has been that large extension during a period in which there has been imposed the highest taxation this country has ever known, and at a time when all the requirements of war finance have had to be met. As to the question of priority, I am of opinion that the provision of this additional £18,000,000 should rank highest among social service priorities. .We have already been. able to find the funds necessary to implement the social service legislation which this Government has already placed on the statute-book, and I1 am confident that we will he able to find the additional money necessary for the extension of the child endowment benefits proposed by the honorable member for Darwin. The additional benefit would not render impracticable the substantial reduction of income tax which we on this side of the chamber have indicated we would put into effect if we were returned to office. {: .speaker-K0K} ##### Mr Conelan: -- From what source would the honorable gentleman derive the additional £18,000,000? {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT: -- If I had the time at my disposal I would be glad to analyse the Treasurer's Financial Statement, and point out the sources from which the additional moneys could be obtained. The Prime Minister has told us that the number of those engaged in gainful employment has increased by 400,000 since the 30th June, 1945. At that date some 2,600,000 persons were so employed; at the 30th June, 1946, the number had increased to slightly in excess of 3,000,000. Obviously, that increase is represented, in the main, by discharged service personnel who have returned to civilian occupations. There has been some movement of women from industry, but they have been replaced by discharged service personnel. Those additional 400,000 persons, however, did not contribute very much towards last year's revenue collections, as most of them were not discharged from the forces until towards the end of last year or the beginning of this year. Most of' our ex-service personnel have taken the leave to which they were entitled, and many have not yet gone back into civil employment. They preferred to take their time about it. Others have been in civil employment for only a few months. So, the income tax received from that group of persons during the last financial year was not a very large amount. However, most of them will come into the taxable field during the current financial year, and their number will be added to as discharges from the forces continue. The Government has reduced income tax this year by a total amount which represents approximately 8 per cent. over the whole income tax field. I emphasize that percentage because it has been represented that the reductions range from 20 per cent. to more than 41 per cent. {: .speaker-A48} ##### Mr Chifley: -- The total reduction for the full year since the war ended amounts to £37,000,000. {: .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT: -- The concessions announced by the Prime Minister in relation to income tax collections last year represent an over-all reduction of 8 per cent. If they are related solely to income tax derived from personal incomes they represent a reduction of only 11 per cent. The point I make is that even with the minor reductions already announced there have been consequential increases in volume derived under certain other headings. For example, the revenue from excise, which covers luxury items such as beer, tobacco, cigarettes and the like, has been increased, and as more purchas-, ingpower becomes available, as the result of income tax reductions, receipts from that source will grow considerably. Although there has been a considerable decrease of the rates of sales tax, the yield from that impost has increased until, for the year just ended, it was almost £6,000,000 more than the budget estimate. As more goods become available for consumption, and thereductions of income tax become effective, we can. expect purchases to increase with resultant accretions to the revenue from sales tax. Last year governmental expenditure was reduced by £84,000,000 in respect of defence and war services alone, and we can, I believe, con- fidently envisage a very much greater reduction under that heading this year. It is not possible to give a complete financial picture because of the absence of details. I have yet to meet a Treasurer who will even allow the members of his own party to know exactly what is happening with his finances - and I am sure the present Treasurer is no exception. If such reticence is displayed towards the Treasurer's own colleagues what chance have we to learn the facts of the financial position of the Government? We are able to glean sufficient information, however, to enable us to form the conclusion that not only would taxation reductions on the scale we have suggested be possible but also that the social reforms sponsored by the honorable member for Darwin should be within our. reach in the near future. I hope that the committee will not decide this matter on a party basis, and that honorable members generally will support the proposal which the honorable member for Darwin has so ably presented for their consideration. {: #debate-35-s14 .speaker-J7U} ##### Dame ENID LYONS:
Darwin -- This debate and debates on the taxation proposals of the Government generally have demonstrated clearly the disturbing fact that there is still insufficient appreciation of the special difficulties of families. There has been constant talk of doing something for those in the lower income ranges, but there has never at any stage in our history been sufficient realization of the particular needs of families. That criticism applies not only to the present Government, but also to its predecessors. I have pointed out on many occasions that the granting of concessions in taxing measures to taxpayers with families does not in any way meet the situation. I am very much indebted to the honorable member for Fawkner **(Mr. Holt)** for his able speech in support of my proposal. I had not intended to make any particular move in this matter other than to direct the attention of the committee to the need for making special provision for families. It so happens, however, that the honorable member for Bass **(Mr. Barnard)** referred to the plea I made on behalf of parents of families as " sob stuff ". The honorable gentleman said that I, being the only woman member of this chamber, need not expect exceptional or preferential treatment. In the very first speech I made in this chamber I let it be clearly understood that I did not expect preferential treatment. I remind the honorable member that in the many hard battles I fought at Labour conferences long before he became interested in politics, I learned to give and take. I have treated every honorable member in this chamber with the utmost courtesy and I have invariably received from them the same consideration. I very much object to the honorable member's insinuation that I believe I am entitled to preferential treatment. During the course of his remarks the honorable member said - >I am getting rather tired of the sob stuff of the honorable member for Darwin. She talks about the needs of those not sufficiently paid and who have not sufficient of this world's goods. When she talks about the extension of child endowment benefits I warn her that in a little time she will have a chance to support this thing with her vote and with her voice. That is a challenge which I cannot ignore. I offer the honorable member for Bass a chance now to support with his vote something which he has declared himself to favour and which I have clearly demonstrated is very much in favour with me. Honorable members on this side of the chamber, with our incomplete knowledge of the financial situation, are not in a position to say whether my proposal is immediately practicable, but I gather from the remarks of the honorable member for Fawkner and others on this side of the House that it isnot beyond the hounds of possibility at the present juncture. I believe also that any desirable objective can in some way be reached if there is sufficient will to endeavour to attain it. Because I knowthe limits of the situation, I couch my amendment in these terms - >That paragraph 3 be postponed, as an instruction to the Government - to investigate immediately relieving the undue burden imposed on the family by the economic situation by expanding the operation of the Child Endowment Act to cover all children of Australian families under the age of sixteen who are at present excluded. Question put - >That paragraph 3 be postponed (Dame Enid Lyons's amendment). The committee divided. (The Temporary Chairman- Mr. G.W. Martens.) AYES: 22 NOES: 34 Majority . . . . 12 AYES NOES Question so resolved in the negative. Original question resolved in the affirmative. Resolution reported. Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted. {:#subdebate-35-0} #### Ordered - >That **Mr. Lazzarini** and **Mr. Holloway** do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution. Bill presented by **Mr. Lazzarini,** and passed through all stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 3407 {:#debate-36} ### SOCIAL SERVICES CONTRIBUTION ASSESSMENT BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-36-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 12th July (vide page 2456), on motion by **Mr. Chifley** - >That the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-36-0-s0 .speaker-F4T} ##### Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Australian Country party -- Neither the Australian Country party nor the Liberal party has any objection to this measure, which is designed to remove an anomalyand to bring the social services contribution into conformity with the income taxin certain respects. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported for committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3408 {:#debate-37} ### INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-37-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 12th July (vide page 2460), on motion by **Mr. Holloway** - >That the. bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-37-0-s0 .speaker-N76} ##### Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition · Kooyong -- I do not propose to occupy any time in discussing the basic issue in relation to this and the next measure. As all honorable members know, we on this side believe that in order to produce complete security, complete soundness, and a proper establishment of the rights of contributors to receive benefits without a means test, a contributory system ought to be introduced. Rut I will not discuss that, because I have no doubt that it will be the subject matter of a great deal of discussion elsewhere in the next month or two. Taking the bill against the background of the' existing law, I agree with the Minister that it raises from 12s.6d. to £1a week the income that an invalid pensioner or an old-age pensioner may have without his pension being affected. In the case of a blind pensioner, the amount of allowable income is increased from £5 to £5 7s. 6d.a week. Certain items of property are eliminated from consideration in the assessment of a pension, and an anomaly is disposed of by removing the disqualification for pension benefit of an adult invalid whose parents are deemed to be adequately maintaininghim. Assuming the acceptance of the present general structure of the legislation, I agree that these amendments are such as to command the support of both sides of the House. They will confer real relief in a great number of cases. They will extend benefit to personsnotnow entitled to benefits, and I believe that in each case the ; benefit will be of a kind of which the House and 'the country will approve. I therefore do not propose to offer any objectionto the secondreading. {: #subdebate-37-0-s1 .speaker-6V4} ##### Mr DALY:
Martin .- In introducing this bill, the. Minister for Labour and National Service **(Mr. Holloway)** said - >It is with considerable pleasure that I move thesecond reading of this bill, which provides a substantial measure of relaxation of the means test in relation toinvalid and old-age pensions payments. I am sure that the Prime Minister. **(Mr. Chifley)** and my other Cabinet colleagues would permit me to say that this bill is the first step in a long-range plan designed to eliminate completely the means test from our social service legislation. I rise to say a few words particularly about the abolition of the means test and the part that this bill will play in the achievement of that most desirable objective. The abolition of the means test has received wide publicity recently, particularly since the introduction of a form of contributory social services by the Labour Government. Social reform has always been in the forefront of Labour's policy, and to Labour alone goes the credit for the improvements that have been made in our social order. In common with other honorable members on. this side, I support the abolition of the means test, particularly as it applies to social- services. The Leader of the Opposition **(Mr. Menzies)** and members of the Liberal party have held out the abolition of the means test as an electioneering bait, and I propose to deal with their approach tothe problem and with the criticism levelled against the Labour party in that regard before dealing with the provisions of this bill. It is only a few weeks since the Leader of the Opposition took exception to an advertisement that appeared in the press over the names of the leaders of the Australian Labour party. He stated that the advertisement misrepresented the facts and was altogether undesirable. I produce another' advertisement which was inserted in a Sydney journal by the Liberal party to explain its social services programme. I claim that this advertisement is dishonest, and that it was inserted for the deliberate purpose of misleading the people. Compared with it, any political advertisement which may have been published previously fades into insignificance,. It reads - {: .page-start } page 3409 {:#debate-38} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-38-0} #### ALL TO. GAIN AND NOTHING TO LOSE With a Liberal Social Security Plan- ^ Without the Means Test! The Liberal party maintains that the moans test is humiliating, and a penalty for thrift. It contends that social benefits should be enjoyed by all. When social services are placed on a contributory basis, 'the means test can be abolished. Pensioners and other people without means will not be asked to contribute when the means test is abolished. The Liberal party will not reduce, pensions and it will not. curtail the present pension payments! It will not reduce child endowment but will extend this benefit to the first child. The contributory social security plan of the Liberal party will remove the fear and uncertainty of the future, and provide protection in sickness, unemployment, incapacity, &c. A Liberal government means a better to-morrow for every one. When we read a fine-sounding advertisement like that, we should examine the background and achievements of those who inserted it. The Liberal party and the Australian Country party have been in power in this Parliament - I say that they have been in power because they had majorities in the House of Representatives and Senate - for approximately 35' years since federation, but they have not done anything to achieve the objectives stated in that advertisement. The Labour party which was iri office for short periods, including the economic depression - and World War II. - the two most tragic periods in our history - has a great record, particularly regarding social services. To expose the hollow hypocrisy of the advertisement, I refer to the statement of the Minister for Labour and National Service when introducing the bill. He mentioned that the provisions relating to permissable income and the amount of property that a pensioner may own, had not been altered since 1923. What has been the position" since that year5? United Australia partyAus'tralian Country party governments were in power until 194.1. with the exception of the period 1-929-31, when the Seullin Government was in office but not in power. In all those years, honorable members opposite did not make any effort to abolish the means" test. Consequently, my purpose in speaking this evening is to expose the hypocrisy of those members of the Liberal party who were associated with the publication of the advertisement, and' to warn the electors of the type of people who are making these promises in the hope of winning votes, at the forthcoming elections. On the other side of the ledger, the Labour Government, in its comparatively brief period of office, increased pensions by 50 per cent, in the last five yearsa notable achievement compared with the sorry record of those who inserted the advertisement. Honorable members opposite emphasized the necessity for abolishing the means test. What will happen? Not .once have those honorable members made any practical suggestions for abolishing the means test. When' they make these promises, they- should suggest a practical method of implementing them. Let us examine what the abolition of the means test would entail. I support the principle of the abolition of the means, test from our social services legislation. However, its removal would necessitate the provision of an additional £40,000,000. In passing, I point out that we heard references this evening to child endowment. If child endowment were payable in respect of the first child, an additional £18,000,000 would be required. Those two alterations would increase the cost of social services by £58,000,000. How would that money he provided ? We cannot print bank notes, for the purpose of meeting the cost of social services. We must have a sound financial approach. I presume from what the Leader of the Opposition has stated, that the money would be. obtained from a form of contributory social services scheme on the lines of the National Health and Pensions Bill. On one occasion, I heard the honorable member for Richmond **(Mr. Anthony)** refer ' to the outstanding features of the national insurance legist lation which the Lyons Government introduced in 1938 but never dared to implement, so great was the public outcry against it. If honorable members opposite propose to abolish the means test, do they consider that their national insurance scheme should take the form of that proposed in 1938? I shall mention a few features of that scheme in -order to warn the people of what they may expect if the Liberal party gets an opportunity to abolish the means test on that basis. Incidentally, this proposal has been given considerable prominence by honorable members opposite in advocating the abolition of the means test. The National Health and Pensions Insurance Bill, which was introduced by the then Treasurer, **Mr. Casey,** excluded various classes such as farmers, shopkeepers, self-employed persons and the unemployed. It did not include unemployment sustenance. There were no health provisions' for wives and families. It was a retrogressive social measure because it ignored the cardinal principle of taxation, namely, that the tax should be paid by those best able to bear the burden. It imposed upon the workers in the lower income group a charge which they could not pass on, as an employer could. The contributory scheme provided that a man should pay ls. 6d. a week for health and old age benefits, ls. for medical treatment for his wife and children, and ls. 6d. to enable his wife to receive a pension when she attained the age of 60 years, a total of 4s. a week. For that payment, the husband was entitled to a pension of £1 a week, and his wife to a pension of 15s. a week. Those are a few of the features of the so-called national insurance scheme which, I assume, would be revived by honorable members opposite if they had an opportunity to give effect to their proposals for the abolition of the means test. If the people have only that promise to look forward to, they will have no prospect of getting reasonable benefits for their social services contributions. If the Opposition does not revive that policy, it might adopt a contributory scheme like that in operation in New Zealand. ' That scheme imposes a contribution of ls. 6d. in. the £1 or part of £1 of income, and Id. in every 10d., plus a. special war tax of 6d., making a general flat rate of 2s. in the £1. To my mind, that is not a sound proposition, because it places on the lower-paid worker the same burden as that which is borne by the more highly paid worker. That basis is not equitable. If we look further afield, perhaps the Opposition would introduce' a scheme like that in operation in Great Britain. This requires a male to contribute 4s. 7d. for ordinary national insurance, plus 3d. for workers' compensation. The employer contributes 4s. 2d. making a total of 9s. a week. The contributions payable by a woman amount to 3s. 9d. a week, and the employer contributes 3s. 3d., making a total of 7s. a week. These contributions are levied on all persons earning in excess of £1 10s. a week. For those payments, a man is entitled to receive £1 6s. a week when he is unemployed or ill. That scheme is not comparable with the benefits payable under our progressive scheme in Australia. Those are a few of the proposals which members of the Opposition would have to consider if they had an opportunity, as a Government, to introduce a national insurance scheme and abolish the means test. I say quite frankly that their proposal cannot be adopted, and honorable members opposite are endeavouring to mislead the people by glossing over the actual .and factual approach to the problem. It is a dishonest approach. When considering the increase of £58,000,000 which the complete abolition of the means test would entail, we must bear in mind also that for every ls. by which the rate of pension is increased the pension bill rises by £1,000,000. . That does not take into account the increased number of persons who are eligible for invalid and old age pensions. Honorable members opposite cannot promise to reduce taxation by 40 per cent, and at the same time increase social services by £58,000,000 a year. The explanation of their proposal is that they desire to relieve the budget of all payments for pensions and other social services, and place that burden upon the shoulders of the workers, as they proposed to do under the national insurance scheme in 1938. Obviously, that must occur if the Liberal party has an opportunity to reduce taxation by 40 per cent, and increase social service payments by £58,000,000 a year. I shall give the actual costs *per capita* on a contributory basis under any schema which will be necessary to implement proposals contained in the Liberal party's advertisement. The cost of all social services on a contributory basis, judging by the total cost for 1945-46, would be £53,000,000. The additional estimated cost resulting .from the abolition of the means test on invalid and old-age pensions and widows pensions would' be £44,500,000, a total of £97,500,000. At the 30th June last, the total number of bread-winners was 2,920,000. Therefore a total contribution of 13s. a week would be required. Of course, that could not be paid by unemployed persons, pensioners and persons over the age of 65 years. That is what the people may expect if they fall for the gag which is contained in the advertise-1 ment. In my calculation of a contribution of 13s. a week, I did not take into account two factors, first, the expanding cost of social services, and secondly the expansion of social service plans, including health and various other schemes which the Labour party may have in view. That is a summary of what is offered to the people by those who bitterly criticize the proposals and efforts of this Government to abolish the means test and give the people a comprehensive range of social service benefits. I shall now examine the Labour party's general programme of social services. In some quarters, it is believed that the Government's social services scheme is an additional tax. That is not so. The Australian contributions are levied on incomes progressively, according to ability to pay, from 3d. to a maximum. of ls. 6d. in the £1. The reason for the Government's social service contribution is to ensure that a portion of the total income tax received from personal exertion shall be used exclusively for social service payments. Many thousands of people who enjoy the social service benefits as provided do not make any contribution by way of taxation to the scheme. In fact, there are 1,000,000 bread-winners in Australia who do not pay any direct tax, but all of them are entitled to social services benefits. For the information of honorable members, I cite an example. A man with a wife and two children receiving £300 a year will pay £11 17s. a year, or 4s. 6d. a week. This will be a social service contribution, not income tax. Prior to these reductions by the Government, his payments totalled £17 8s. a year. For his . contribution he receives the benefits of the social service . legislation which, for the year 1945-46, involved an expenditure of £53,000,000, and included maternity allowance, child endowment, free medi-' cine,, unemployment and sickness benefits. Although such a man is required to pay 4s. 6d. a week as social service contribution, he is entitled to 7s. 6d. a week child endowment in respect of his second child under sixteen years of age; so he pays 4s. 6d. a week and receives 7s. 6d., in addition to enjoying the other benefits that I have mentioned, which are costing the' Government £53,000,000 a year. Similarly, for every other child he would receive a further 7s. 6d. a week endowment. The Government should be congratulated on its commendable approach to the whole problem of social services. It is taking steps which will result in. the immediate relaxing, and the ultimate abolition, of the means test in relation to invalid and old-age pensions. Under its long-range plan, the means test will be completely .eliminated from our social service legislation. The chief measures that are being proposed immediately are an increase of permissible income from 12s 6d. to £1 a. week for old-age and invalid pensioners . in general, and from £5 to £5 7s! 6d. a week for blind pensioners; and the lifting of the property bar from £400 to £650. A further measure which will be received with satisfaction is the elimination of certain property, from consideration in connexion . with the assessment of pensions. Another immediate' measure to liberalize pensions is the removal' of the means test in respect" of invalid adult pensioners in relation to the income of parents. That is a highly desirable variation. All of the steps which I have mentioned will be received with satisfaction by the general public, and they indicate that the Government has a well-prepared plan to ensure the removal of the means test as it exists to-day. Personally I regret that it has not been possible for the Government to go further than it has gone, but I am gratified that some substantial advance is assured. One effect of the Government's immediate programme will be to improve the lot of 42,000 invalid and old-age pensioners, and to bring 88,000 additional persons into the range of pension payments. These measures will involve an additional expenditure of about £4,500,000 a year, which, spread over, so many people in the community, will undoubtedly have a beneficial effect. The Government is. to be complimented upon this progressive policy, and I have no doubt that the people will indicate in no uncertain way their endorsement of what is being done. I emphasize that the ultimate objective of the Government is the complete abolition of the means test by providing for "an increase of permissible income and a progressive lifting of the property bar year by year. I give my enthusiastic and sincere support to this part of the bill. Before concluding my brief speech, I wish to make some comparison, of 'the social services benefits now available with those in existence at the time this Government assumed, office. In 1941, at the time of the defeat of the Menzies Administration, invalid and old-age pensions, maternity allowances and child endowment only were being 1 provided. The maximum rate of invalid and old-age pension was 21s. 6d., and pensioners in institutions were receiving only 6s. 9d. a .week. ' Considerable increases have been provided since this Government assumed office. The rate of invalid and old-age pension has been increased to 32s. 6d. a week, and the rate for pensioners in institutions to lis. 6d. a week. In addition child endowment and maternity allowance payments have also been substantially increased. In June, 1946, as the result of the generous policy 'of this Government, the following social services were being provided : - Invalid and old-age pensions, allowances to the wife and one child of invalid pensioners, funeral benefits for invalid and 'old-age pensioners, maternity allowances, -child endowment, widows' pensions, and unemployment and sickness benefits. This is no mean achievement after five years of war which made exactins: demands on all the members of the ministry. An increased coverage has been given to many deserving people in the community. The cost of our social services in 1945-46 was more than £53,000,000, and the estimated cost for 1946-47 is £62,310,000. The Government is to be congratulated upon its progressive approach to this problem. Its various social service benefits are being financed on a sound basis, and the payments being provided will bear comparison with those of any other country in the world. The money that is being expended will relieve the sufferings and poverty of many people in the community. This substantial measure of social security is an instalment of the new order which the Government is gradually introducing. A truly humane measure of relief is now being provided for the most deserving classes in the community. Many of the people who will receive help are, through no fault of their own, unable to help themselves. The Government has a great deal to be proud of, and I believe that it will continue to apply a generous social service policy. In conclusion I bring to the notice of honorable members the following short poem headed " Tory Promises " which has been published in an influential section of the press and presents an excellent summary of the Opposition's approach to the elections and the social security policy: - >How radical the Tories get. > >As polling (lay draws near! > >They'll promise anything - you bet!- > >The cleft hoofs disappear! > >They'll cut down taxes, and they'll give > >A shorter working week; > >They'll guarantee that workers live > >In ways they rightly seek. > >Their promises are many, but > >We give them nought of heed > >When these deceivers pose and strut > >For well we know the breed! {: #subdebate-38-0-s0 .speaker-L0G} ##### Mr RYAN:
Flinders .- In consequence of certain remarks made by the' honorable member for Martin **(Mr. Daly),** my speech will need to be somewhat longer than I had originally intended. I have no objection -to the bill. I believe, however, that in two respects the principles underlying recent social service legislation in this country are unsound. First, no proper contributory system is being established, and, secondly, the means test is not 'being abolished. I have listened with interest to the speech of the honorable member for Martin. His remarks surprised me in some respects. . Like myself the honorable gentleman is a member of the Social Security Committee and has had the opportunity of studying social service legislation. It seems to me that some of his remarks are entirely at variance with information which we have gained as members of the committee. The honorable gentleman said that he approved of the abolition of "the means test. So do I, and so do all other honorable members on this side of the chamber. We shall later set out our views on this subject in considerable detail for the benefit of the electors. " The honorable gentleman referred to .an advertisement in a Sydney newspaper which- outlined the policy of the Liberal party- in regard to social security. The advertisement stated that "The Liberal party maintains that the means test is humiliating and a penalty on thrift ". We heartily agree with that statement. I believe that the honorable gentleman would also agree with it publicly if we were not. on the eve of general elections. The advertisement also stated, " When social services are placed on a contributory basis the means test can be abolished ". That also is true. Some of the remarks of the honorable member in regard to the attitude of honorable gentleman on this side of the chamber on social security measures were quite unnecessary. {: .speaker-JSW} ##### Mr Bryson: -- What 'he said was quite true. {: .speaker-L0G} ##### Mr RYAN: -- In the days gone by nonLabour Governments did a great deal to promote social security in this country. The honorable member for Bourke **(Mr. Bryson)** "must know that the first social service legislation was placed on our statute-book in 1909 by a government of the political complexion of honorable gentlemen' now sitting on this side of the chamber. For many years and, indeed, until quite recently all the social service legislation "placed on our statute-book was introduced by governments holding views similar to those held by honorable gentleman -now sitting in opposition. It was left to the 'Scullin' Government to reduce pensions in 1929, and although the present Government has been in office since 1940, and has had control of vast public funds, it did nothing to eliminate the means test until the last few weeks. I believe that it has acted now only because we are fast approaching the time when we all shall 'face the' electors. The Government must have realized the need to liberalize its policy. If it had not done so it would undoubtedly have been found wanting by the electors. Honorable members' now sitting on this side of the chamber were instrumental, in 193S, in having passed by ' the Parliament a national health and pensions scheme, but that act was not proclaimed owing to the outbreak of war. Had it been proclaimed, it would at least have given to this country a better basis for social security legislation than it now has. I am somewhat astonished that you **Mr. Speaker,** did not raise your eyebrows rather more than you did when the honorable member for Martin described as " hypocritical " the attitude of Opposition members towards the means test. I resent that description; because we are at least sincere in promising, not only the introduction of a contributory scheme, but also the abolition of the means test. The honorable member for Martin knows that there are three methods whereby social security legislation may be financed. The Government is adopting the first method, by "soaking" the people at the top, in order to provide for the people at the bottom, of the economic scale. That ia the worst system which any government could apply in any country. I have said previously, and I repeat, that no other country has embraced that principle for the financing of social legislation. The honorable member for Martin should know that. There is something to be said for each of the other two systems. The New Zealand system, of a flat rate tax, provides more security for government finance than does the system here proposed. Finally, there is the contributory system, under which one part would be borne by 'the employer, a second part by the employee, and the third part by the Government out of Consolidated Revenue. That system has been adopted in many countries, including Great Britain, where the results have been extremely good. I have no doubt that it will be followed in Australia at some time in the future. Under such a scheme, the abolition of the means test would be perfectly feasible. The means test has been abolished in the United Kingdom, and it could be. abolished in this country. Further details of our proposals will be published in the near future. The people will then know that they have within them the means for providing greater security than will be possible under the scheme adopted by the Government. The bill contains three main features of which I approve. The permissible income is to be raised from 12s. 6d. to £1 a week. For some time, members of the Opposition as well as ministerial supporters have been advocating' this proposal, the adoption of which is long overdue, because the value of the £1 has depreciated veryconsiderably, what was worth 12s. 6d. when the permissible income was fixed at that amount being now worth considerably less. I next commend the alteration in respect of the property bar to the receipt of a pension. This was raised from the £310 fixed in 1909 to £400 in 1923, at which figure it has remained until the present date. The bill proposes to raise it to £650. The third feature that I commend is the removal of the disqualification in respect of adult invalids whose parents are deemed to be able adequately to maintain them. The granting of these concessions will somewhat increase the demands on the national revenue. The Minister for Labour and National Service **(Mr. Holloway)** informed the House that 42,000 pensioners will have their pensions increased, and that 88,000 additional persons will become entitled to the pension, the aggregate amount of which will be increased by £4,250,000, from £29,000,000 to £33,250,000. Ever since I have been a member of this House, I have held the view that the disqualification in respect of the pension should be on an income, not a capital, basis. Many honorable members know of applicants for the pension who have been debarred from receiving it because their capital has exceeded £400, even though they did not derive any income from it. I cite one case as typical of many cases that have come to my knowledge. An old man had a property in the Mallee district of Victoria, the estimated value of which, according to the Department of Social Security, was approximately £1,000. He derived no income from it, and could not sell it. It was a waste heap of sand, on which there was practically no grass. I have known of three or four similar cases. The owners of the properties could not sell them and had no income from them, yet, under the old system, were debarred from receiving any benefit under the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act. I make one further point in relation to the income which may be earned without incurring disqualification for a full pension. At present, an income of£1 a week may be earned by working, or may be derived from an annuity or a small pension. But there are many persons who obtain £1 a week from an investment in Commonwealth bonds or from preference shares. Because they possess the capital which returns them this income, they are debarred to-day from obtaining any bene-, fit under the act. That principle of disqualification because of the possession of capital should be reviewed, with the object of making the disqualification relate to income.Why should a man who receives £1 a week from an annuity or a small pension be more favorably placed than the man who happens to have a few hundred pounds invested in a Commonwealth security which returns a similar income? The granting of this concession might increase the number of persons eligible for the pension; but I doubt very much that it would. There is one other point; it relates to. the amount of capital which should be regarded as a disqualification. If a man or woman be allowed to have an income of £1 a week and still be entitled to obtain the pension, why should it not be possible to capitalize such an income at, say, 3¼ per cent. per annum, the present government rate, and regard the resultant amount as the permissible capital ? That would raise the capital limit to £1,600. Thrift is still a virtue, and we should do all that we can to encourage it. The time will come when the means test will be abolished. I hope that that will occur before long. But until that time does arrive, there is no reason why thrift should be discouraged as it is being discouraged to-day, by making this benefit dependent almost entirely on the possession of very little or no- capital. The, principle upon which this legislation is based should be altered so as to allow the points that I have raised to 'be met. I hope' that the Minister will review the matter, with a view to determining whether action may be taken in the directions I have suggested. {: #subdebate-38-0-s1 .speaker-JYV} ##### Mr FULLER:
Hume .- I warmly commend the Government for having brought down this bill to provide a substantial measure of relief for invalid and old-age pensioners, at a cost of more than £4,000,000 a year, whilst simultaneously providing for reductions of taxes aggregating £17,500,000. If there is any section of the community which deserves not merely our sympathy but also our whole-hearted consideration, it is that section which is composed of the aged and the physically afflicted. Even if there be a few aged persons who are in needy circumstances because of their own thriftlessness, the fact remains that the great majority of the old people have lived an honest and honorable life and have contributed their share towards the development of this country. Therefore, they are entitled to expect that, in the eventide of their lives, they will be able to experience a real sense of freedom from want. There rests upon us, also, the same obligation in respect of those who, because of invalidity, are prevented from taking their places. in industry. *[Quorum* *formed.]* I am particularly pleased with the effect which the easing of the- means test will have on elderly people who derive modest incomes from superannuation schemes. There are a great many people who, upon retirement from the Public Service or other employment, receive superannuation- of £2 a week. At present, such persons have their pensions reduced because of the superannuation they receive. - In future, however, a married couple whose only income is superannuation of £2 a week will be able to receive full pensions of 32s. 6d. a' week each, giving them a total income of £5 5s. a week. Where the amount of superannuation is £3 a week, the couple will be entitled to pensions of 22s. 6d. a week . each, giving them the same total income of £5 5s. a week. In addition, they may own their own home, and have other assets valued at £119 without their pensions being affected. The position will be the same where a married man has no superannuation, but is able to derive income from part-time employment. I am also pleased that pensioners are not, in future, to be penalized because they hold small life assurance policies, and that certain, other items of property are to be disregarded. The Government is to be congratulated on removing the means test for parents in dealing with applications from invalid children over 21 years of age. This will be welcome news in many a home, over- which hangs a cloud of sorrow because of the permanent affliction of a' son or daughter. It will bring to the invalid a new ray of hope and a feeling of relief from the sense pf utter dependence which in the pasthas had a most depressing and disheartening effect. Some people, no doubt, will criticize the proposed liberalization of the means test on the ground that it will not benefit the- majority of pensioners who are entirely dependent on their pensions. The Government has a complete answer to such criticism, because it can show that it gave its first attention to those pensioners by increasing the maximum rate of pension, from time to time. When Labour took office in October, 1941, the maximum pension was 21s. a week. It is now 32s. 6d., an increase of 51 per- cent, in less than five years of Labour rule.. This increase included 5s. fid. a week granted in July of 'last year. In no previous period of five years, since old-age pensions came into operation 37 years ago, was there anything like this percentage increase.-, In addition, the Labour Government has introduced allowances for the wives and children of invalid pensioners, and provided a grant of £10 towards the funeral expenses of the pensioner. ITo previous government has a better record so far as the welfare of bid-age and invalid pensioners is concerned. I sincerely hope that the relaxation of the means test provided for in this bill is merely the forerunner of further steps inthis direction, and that it will soon be possible to embark on a plan which will ultimately achieve the entire removal of the means test from invalid and old-age pensions. Not only will this assure that state of social security which we hear so much about to-day, but it will undoubtedly serve to encourage thrift and stimulate the will to work. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate ; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3416 {:#debate-39} ### WIDOWS' PENSION BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-39-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 12th July (vide page 2461), on motion by **Mr. Holloway** - >That the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-39-0-s0 .speaker-N76} ##### Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition · Kooyong -- I do not propose to detain the House by debating this measure. I repeat by reference what I said on the question of principle on a former bill; but, assuming the principle, the amendments provided in this bill are such as will commend themselves to all honorable members. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3416 {:#debate-40} ### OVERSEAS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BILL 1946 *In committee* (Consideration of Senate's amendments) : Clause4 - >This Act is divided into parts, as follows: - > >PartI. -Preliminary. > >Part II. -The Overseas Telecommunications Services. > >Division 1. -Establishment and Constitution of the Overseas Telecommunications Commission (Australia). > > *Senate's Amendment No.* 1. -After "Division 1. -Establishment and Constitution of the Overseas Telecommunications Commission (Australia) ", insert "Division1a -The Service of the Commission." {: #debate-40-s0 .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and Minister for Information · Melbourne · ALP -- This bill originated in the House of Representatives, and passed on the 11th July, 1946. It was presented to the Senate, and there passed on the 24th July, 1946. During the debate in. the House of Representatives, suggesttions were made that certain provisionsconcerning officers of the commission be included in the bill itself, rather than in regulations under the act. The Government gave consideration to the matter and decided to include the provisions in the bill, as had been suggested. The provisions were embodied as Government amendments to the bill in the Senate, and the bill, with these amendments, passed the Senate without other alteration. I move - >That the amendment be agreed to. Question resolved in the affirmative. Clause 5 (Definitions). *Senate's Amendment No.* 2. - After the definition of " Commissioner " insert the following definition: - "' officer 'means officer of the Commission; " Motion (by **Mr. Calwell)** agreed to - >That the amendment be agreed to. Clause 17 (Delegation of powers by Commission). *Senate's Amendment No.* 3. -After clause 17 insert the following heading: - "Division1a. - The Service of the Commission.". {: #debate-40-s1 .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and Minister for Information · Melbourne · ALP -- I move - >That the amendment be agreed to. These additions are consequential upon the inclusion of the new clauses 18a to 18p, and in order that the provisions of the bill relating to the staff of the commission may be segregated from the remainder. Question resolved in the affirmative. Clause18- (3.) A person shall not be .... . . appointed to a clerical office in that Service unless he has in open competition successfully passed the prescribed entrance examination: (8.) Officers appointed by the Commission shall, subject to this section, be subject tosuch terms and conditions of. employment (including conditions with respect to punishment for breaches of discipline) as are determined by the Commission. (12.) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section, any other employee of the Company or any employee of Cable and Wireless Limited who, at the date of acquisition by the Commission of the tele-communication assets referred to respectively in sub-sections (1.) and (2.) of section twenty-three of this Act, is exclusively or mainly engaged in Australia in or in connexion with telecommunication services and has been so exclusively or mainly engaged for a period of three years and for whom the Commission can find suitable employment shall be entitled to a position in the service of the Commission with such status and salary and under such conditions as the Commission thinks just: > *Senate's Amendment No.* 4. - Sub-clause (3.), leave out " a . clerical ", insert "an". Motion (by **Mr. Calwell)** agreed to - >That the amendment be agreed to. > > *Senate's Amendment No.* 5. - Sub-clause (8.), leave out " section ", insert " Division ". Motion (by **Mr. Calwell)** agreed to - >That the amendment be agreed to. > > *Senate's Amendment No.6.* - Sub-clause (8.), leave out " (including conditions with respect to punishment for breaches of discipline)". > > *Senate's Amendment No.* 7. - Sub-clause ( 12 ) , leave out " and has been so exclusively or mainlyengaged for a period of three years ". {: #debate-40-s2 .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and Minister for Information · Melbourne · ALP . -I move - >That the amendments be agreed to. Following representations by the honorable member for Warringah **(Mr. Spender),** I gave an undertaking that the provision in clause 18 (11.) of the bill as originally presented, stipulating that employees of the two companies should have completed a qualifying period of three years on telecommunication work before entitling them to employment inthe commission's service, would be reconsidered and, if thought desirable by the Government, deleted at a later stage The honorable member for Warringah referred to circumstances under which this particular provision could *operate* unjustly against certain employees of the companies as, for example, those who had been engaged on. war service. He also contended that persons who had been employed by the companies for less than three years might reasonably be entitled to some consideration. {: .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr Harrison: -- The Minister has apparently overlooked the fact thatI dealt with that very matter at considerable length in my second-reading speech. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL: -- If the honorable member wishes to , bask in the reflected glory of other honorable membersI have no objection. I note his protest against being overlooked in my acknowledgments. The honorable member for Warringah dealt with the matter in the committee stage. Reference was also made to it by the honorable members for Moreton **(Mr. Francis)** and Adelaide **(Mr. Chambers),** and other honorable gentlemen. Re-consideration of this matter by the Government has led to the conclusion that, in order to obviate any posibility of injustice to the employees affected, the stipulation should be deleted . from the sub-clause in question, now renumbered 18 (12.). An amendment to this effect was accordingly passed in the Senate. Question resolved in the affirmative. *Senate's Amendment No.* 8. - Sub-clause (12.), after "conditions", insert " (subject to this Division) ". {: #debate-40-s3 .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and Minister for Information · Melbourne · ALP . -Imove - >That the amendment be agreed to. This addition is necessary following the insertion of new clauses 18a to 18p and the inclusion of all provisions relative to staff under a separate Division of Part II. of the bill. Question resolved in the affirmative. *Senate's Amendment No.* 9. - After clause 18, insert the following new clauses:- "18a. - (1.) The Commission may, from time to time, create any position in the Service of the Commission and may abolish any such position. " (2.) The Commission may, from time to time, reclassify any position in the service of the Commission by raising or lowering the salary, or the range of salary, applicable to the position. " (3.) Whenever any position is reclassified the position shall be deemed to be vacant. " 18b. The Commission may transfer or promote anofficer to fill a vacant position in the service of the Commission. "18c. - (1.) In the selection of an officer for promotion to a vacant position, consideration shall be given first to the relative efficiency of the officers available for promotionand, in the event of equality of efficiency of two or more officers; then to the relative seniority of those officers. (2.) For the purposes of this section - {: type="a" start="a"} 0. ' efficiency ' means special qualifications and aptitude for the discharge of the duties of the position to be filled, together with merit, diligence and good conduct, and, in the case of an officer who has at any time been engaged on war service, includes such efficiency as, in the opinion of the Commission; the officer would have attained but for his absence on war service; and 1. the seniority of officers shall be determined as prescribed. " 18D. - (l.)The promotion of an officer to a vacant position shall be provisional and without increased salary pending confirmation of the promotion, and shall be notified in the prescribed manner, and shall be subject to appeal as provided by this section. " (2.) Any officer who considers that he should have been promoted to a vacant position in preference to the officer provisionally promoted may appeal to the Promotions Appeal Board on the ground of superior efficiency or equal efficiency and seniority. " (3.) The regulations may prescribe the manner in which, and the time within which, appeals may be made under this section. " (4.) Upon any such appeal being made, the Promotions Appeal Board shall make full inquiry into the claims of the appellant and t hose of the officer provisionally promoted and shall, determine the appeal. " (5) Where the appeal is upheld the appellant shall be promoted to the vacant position and the provisional promotion shall be cancelled. " (6.) Where the appeal is disallowed, or where no appeal is lodged within the prescribed time, the provisional promotion shall be confirmed. " (7.) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section, the Commission may, at any time after notification has been made of a provisional promotion to a vacant position, and before the promotion has been confirmed, cancel the provisional promotion if the Commission is satisfied that the position is unnecessary or can be filled by the transfer of another officer, or that in the circumstances notification or further notification of the vacant position is desirable. " (8.) The powers of the Commission under the last preceding sub-section may be exercised whether an appeal has been made or not. "18e. - (1.) For the purposes of this, Division, there shall be an Overseas Telecommunications Commission Promotions Appeal Board (in this Act referred to as 'the Promotions Appeal Board '). " (2.) The Promotions Appeal Board shall consist of - 2. a Chairman, who shall be appointed by the Governor-General and shall hold office on such terms and conditions as the Governor-General determines ; 3. an officer appointed by the Commission ; and 4. an officer elected by the officers of the Commissionin the prescribed manner (in this section referred to as the 'officers' representative'). " (3.) The officers' representative shall hold office for such period as is prescribed but shall be eligible for re-election. " (4.) The officers of the Commission may, in the prescribed manner, elect a deputy of the officers' representative and the deputy so elected shall hold office for such period as is prescribed but shall be eligible for re-election. " (5.) A deputy soelected may, inthe event of there being a vacancy in the office of officers' representative, or in the event of the absence of the officers' representative (whether in pursuance of a direction given under the next succeeding sub-section, or through illness or otherwise), attend and vote at meetings of the Promotions Appeal Board, and, when so attending and voting at a meeting, shall, for the purposes of sub-section (7.) of this section, be deemed to be a member of the Promotions Appeal Board in lieu of the officers' representative. " (6.) Where the Chairman of the Promotions Appeal Board is of opinion that the officers' representative is personally interested in, or affected by, any question to be considered at a meeting of the Promotions Appeal Board, the Chairman may direct that the officers' representative shall absent himself from that meeting while that question is considered and decided. " (7.) Where, at any meeting of the Promotions Appeal Board, the members are divided in opinion on any question, that question shall be decided according to the decision of the majority. "18f. - (1.) Every officer who has attained the age of sixty years (or, in the case of a female officer, fifty-five years) shall be entitled to retire from the Service of the Commission if the officer desires to do so, but any such officer may, subject to this Division, continue in the Service of the Commission until the officer attains the age of sixty-five years (or, in the case of a female officer, sixty years). " (2.) If any officer continues in the Service of the Commission after the officer has attained theage of sixty years (or, in the case of a female officer, fifty-five years), the officer may at any time before attaining the age of sixtyfive years (or, in the case of a female officer, sixty years)be retired by the Commission from the Service of the Commission. " (3.) Every officer shall, on attaining the age of sixty-five years (or, in the case of a female officer, sixty years), be retired by the Commission from the Service of the Commission. "18g. - (1.) If at any time the Commission finds that a greater number of officers is employed than is necessary for efficient working, any officer whom the Commission finds is in excess may be transferred to such other position of equal classification as the officer is competent to fill, and, if no such position is available, the officer may be transferred to a position of lower classification. " (2.) If no position is available for the officer, the Commission may retire him from the Service of the Commission. " (3.) An officer shall not be retired from the Service of the Commission under this sec-, tion unless he has been given one month's noticeor is paid salary inlieu of notice. " 18h. - (1.) A married woman shall not be appointed to the Service of the Commission except in special cases. " (2.) Every female officer shall cease to be *an* officer on her marriage unless the Commission is satisfied that there are special circumstances which make it desirable that she should continue in the Service of the Commission. " 18j. Unless the Commission, in any particular case, otherwise directs, the appointment of every officer( not being an officer to whom sub-section (11.) or (12.) of section eighteen of this Act applies) shall be on probation for a period not exceeding twelve months and the appointment may be terminated by the Commission at any time during that period. " 18k. - (1.) If an officer appears to the Commission to be inefficient or incompetent, or unfit to discharge or incapable of discharging the duties of his position, the Commission may retire *him from* the Service of the Commission, or may transfer him to some other position in the Service of the Commission with salary appropriate to that other position. " (2.) An officer shall not be retired from the Service of the Commission under this section unless he has been given at least one month's notice or is paid salary in lieu of notice. "1 8l. The Commission may dismiss an officer, or reduce his status or rate of pay, for incapacity or misconduct. *"18m* - (1.) Where an officer is dismissed retired, transferred or reduced in status or rate of pay under either of the last two preceding sections, the officer may appeal to the Disciplinary Appeal Board. " (2.) The regulations may prescribe the manner in which, and the time within which, appeals may be made under this section. " (3.) The Disciplinary Appeal Board shall hear each appeal submitted to it under this section and may confirm, vary or set aside the decision of the Commission. " (4.) The decision of the Disciplinary Appeal Board shall be final and the Commission shalltake such action as is necessary to give effect to the decision. " (5.) On the hearing of an appeal under this section, the Disciplinary Appeal Board may take evidence on oath. "18n. - (1.) For the purposes of this Division, there shall be an Overseas Telecommunications Commission Disciplinary Appeal Board (in this Act referred to as 'the Disciplinary Appeal Board'). " (2.) The Disciplinary Appeal Board shall consist of - 5. a Chairman, who shall be appointed by the Governor-General and shall hold office on. such terms and conditions as the Governor-General determines ; 6. an officer appointed by the Commis sion; and 7. an officer elected by the officers of the Commission in the prescribed manner (in this section referred to as the ' officers' representative ' ) . "(3.), The Chairman of the Disciplinary Appeal Board shall be a person who is or has been a Police, Stipendiary or Special Magistrate of a State or Territory of the Commonwealth. " (4.) The. officers' representative shall hold office for such period asis prescribed but shall be eligible for re-election. "(5.) The officers of the Commission may, in the prescribed manner, elect a deputy of the officers' representative and the deputy so elected shall hold office for such period as is prescribed but shall be eligible for reelection. " (6.) A deputy so elected may, in the event of there being a vacancy in the office of the officers' representative, or in the event of the absence of the officers' representative (whether in pursuance of a direction under the next succeeding sub-section, or through illness or otherwise), attend and vote at meetings of the Disciplinary Appeal Board, and. when so attending and voting at a meeting shall, for the purposes of sub-section(8.) of this section, be deemed tobe a member of the Disciplinary Appeal Board in lieu of the officers' representative. " (7.)Where the Chairman of the Disciplinary Appeal Board is of opinion that the officers' representative is personally interested , in. or affected by, any question to be considered at a meeting of theDisciplinary Appeal Board, the Chairman may direct that the officers' representative shall absent himself from that meeting while that question is considered and decided. " (8.) Where, at any meeting of the Dis ciplinary Appeal Board, the numbers are divided in opinion on any question, that question shall be decided according to the decision of the majority. 18p. Sections eighteen a to eighteen N (inclusive) of this Act shall not apply to the general manager of the Commission..". {: #debate-40-s4 .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration and Minister for. Information · Melbourne · ALP . -I move - >That the amendment be agreed to. These clauses contain provisions relating to the creation, abolition or reclassification of positionsby the commission; the filling of vacant positions and the selection of officers for promotion; the right of an aggrieved officer or officers to appeal against any provisional promotion and the setting up of a promotions appeal hoard to deal with such matters. They also provide for a definite tenure of office for persons employed on the staff of the commission and prescribe the age for retirement. Other essential provisions included in these clauses concern the right of appeal by officers of the commission against any penalty imposed or disciplinary action taken by it in respect of the misconduct, incapacity, etc., of any particular officer, and the establishment of a disciplinary appeal board for the purpose of hearing such appeals. The clauses correspond with similar provisions in the ' Commonwealth Bank Act 1945, and also with those contained in the Commonwealth Public Service Act and Regulations. During the course of the debate on the bill in this chamber, the honorable member for Bourke **(Mr. Bryson')** drew attention to the desirability of including these provisions in the bill, particularly those relating to the right of appeal of . an officer against a provisional promotion made by the commission or any action of a. disciplinary nature taken by it against him. I gave 'an undertaking that the matter would receive due consideration and, if thought fit, any necessary amendments would be made to the bill upon its introduction in the Senate. It is also desirable to state that a recommendation . was recently made by the Parliamentary Broadcasting Committee for the application of corresponding provisions to employees of the Australian Broadcasting Commission. It is, therefore, contemplated that- the bill to amend the Australian Broadcasting Act, which was introduced into the Senate to-day, shall embody clauses identical with those proposed to be included in this bill. The general provisions of clauses 18a to 18p have also been advocated for inclusion in the bill by the employees affected, inasmuch as they will provide essential safeguards from their point of view in connexion with the making of promotions and any disciplinary action which may be taken against officers by the coin- mission. I might also explain that it was originally intended that these provisions should be included in regulations to be made under the act. As the result of the observations of the honorable member for Bourke, it was decided that it would be better to insert them in theact itself. Question resolved in the affirmative. Resolution reported; report .adopted. {: .page-start } page 3420 {:#debate-41} ### ATOMIC ENERGY (CONTROL OF MATERIALS) BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-41-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 12th July *(vide* page 2478), on motion by **Mr. .** Dedman- >That the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-41-0-s0 .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth -- It would be futile for one to indulge in flights of fancy relative to a bill of this description.. The Minister in introducing the bill was very restrained and dealt with only certain aspects of it. He stated that atomic energy was shrouded in such mystery that little had been heard of it outside the flights of imagination of certain novelists. This bill is" designed to vest the ownership of uranium and certain other substances that are known to exist or may subsequently be discovered in the Commonwealth and its territories. The bill vests in the Minister power to prohibit the possession of or dealing in any of these substances except under licence. Commonwealth officials may enter land or property and search or interrogate persons and insist that all past and future discoveries be immediately notified to the Government. This, of course, is necessary, because we are dealing with a force which the Lilienthal report on the international control of atomic energy described in the following language : - >The atomic bomb, which appeared at the very end of hostilities, made it clear that plans which had been laid at San Francisco for the United Nations organization would ha«e to bc supplemented by a specific control of an instrument of war so terrible that its uncontrolled development would not only intensify the ferocity of warfare but might directly contribute to the outbreak of war. This bill is. designed to control the use of certain- substances' and to promote research into atomic energy. I have no doubt that these controls will have to be extended as investigation proceeds and new substances are found from- which atomic energy may be produced. This is only one of many legislative enactments that will have to be passed by Empire' countries and, indeed, by countries throughout the civilized world. Until international control- is agreed upon and exercised, as a matter, of sheer survival, nations will have to take control of all substances within their boundaries capable of developing atomic energy for defence, if for no other purposes, and encourage research into the development of atomic energy. Because of its peculiar geo- graphical position and the fact that it has extensive deposits of uranium, Australia should not be laggard in its own defence. It may be that greater developments will take place outside of international control because of the . great importance of this new weapon. No international agreements relative to the use of atomic energy have yet been made. Every nation in the world, in the interests of its own safety, however, is taking control of energy-producing -substances and developing research into this important subject within its own borders. This intense concentration will undoubtedly give a great impetus to the production of atomic energy. Legislation along similar lines to the bill now before us will have to be passed by the parliaments of New South Wales and Queensland, as recent investigations have revealed the existence of deposits of thorium in the coastal sands of both of those States. It is difficult to gauge the extent of the deposits of uranium, and thorium in Australia. Investigations that have already taken place, following the passage of legislation in South Australia, has revealed the- existence -of substantial deposits of uranium in that State. But the amount of thorium extracted from monosite found in sand on the north coast is minute. It would seem that legislation similar to this must be introduced in State parliaments other than the parliament of South Australia, because I tate it that this, legislation applies only to Commonwealth territories. {: .speaker-KCF} ##### Mr Dedman: -- The honorable member i? under a misapprehension. This is a bill for an act to control all deposits whereever they occur in -Australia.'. {: .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr HARRISON: -- I gained the impression from the Minister's secondreading speech in which the Minister used the term " Commonwealth Territories " that the legislation applied only to those territories, but I am glad to have his assurance that it is all-embracing. Legislation of a like kind has been passed in the United Kingdom, Canada and New Zealand and in the United States of America, but, whereas the United Kingdom and Canada are- agreeable to Australian scientists working with their scientists on research into and development of atomic energy, the United States of America is jealous of its researches. Therefore plans envisaged by Australia must unfortunately be developed into close co-operation with the rest of the Empire., I say " unfortunately because, when the day of international control arrives,, obviously there will be the closest co-operation between all countries in the use of this new-found force for the betterment and benefit of mankind and not destruction. But while nations are concentrating on the development of atomic energy as a means of defence, the work they do on it must be a closely guarded secret, and development will be on destructive rather than constructive lines. The Commonwealth Government meanwhile should arrange for an exchange of scientists working on atomic energy between the different parts of the British Empire in order that we may keep abreast of developments. The jealous action of the United States of America' of course has been dictated by Russia's rejection of the. main proposals by the United States of America for the control of atomic energy. Although not necessarily closing the door to ultimate agreement on international control it indicates the difficulty! in reaching world agreement in this important connexion. In the long run, whether a formula can be arrived at will be dependent on the decisions of the Security Council of the United Nations and, of course, the Atomic Energy Commission. This bill deals with certain specific substances, but the day is not far distant when other substances must be taken into account as sources from which atomic energy is likely to be developed. The report on the international control of atomic energy says- >The view has been expressed by one official that it may not be long before we may be able to extract atomic energy from common material such as clay. So power taken under the bill to provide for the proclamation of other substances is well taken, because at the moment science does not know from what substances atomic energy may be developed. But uranium is the greatest source of energy known to scientists, and it is necessary to control it. The bill is designed not to affect the mining of minerals that may befound in close association with uranium, and I know that the Minister would not seek, in controlling uranium, to interfere with the development of other minerals necessary for Australian industry. They may be mined under licence. Although the bill seems' to have all the necessary safeguards regarding control of uranium and other substances, one point seems to have been overlooked. The legislation passed in the United Kingdom provides that no person may apply outside the United Kingdom for the patent of an invention which relates to the production or the use of atomic energy without the approval of the Minister, unless such application has been approved in the United Kingdom. In other words, Great Britain has provided against leakage. So should we, by inserting a similar provision in this legislation. "We can do nothing but help the Minister in his desire in the national interest to control substances from which atomic energy may be developed.We therefore support the bill. {: #subdebate-41-0-s1 .speaker-K0E} ##### Dr GAHA:
Denison .-I do not intend to debate this bill, but I desire the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction **(Mr. Dedman)** to answer some questions when he makes his speech in reply, if he intends to make one. {: .speaker-KCF} ##### Mr Dedman: -- I do not. {: .speaker-K0E} ##### Dr GAHA: -- I should like to know whether radium is a substance which, in the opinion of the Minister, is or may be used for the production or the use of atomic energy. I presume it would be. Would all heavy metals automatically come within the purview of this bill? Is the Minister to have power to deal with any discovered methods of releasing energy in any process included in the fision process? Does this legislation apply only to the production of energy for public utilities?Will the Minister reply to those questions ? Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate: report adopted.. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3422 {:#debate-42} ### NATIONALITY BILL (No. 2) 1946 {:#subdebate-42-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 4th July *(vide* page 2235), on motion by **Mr. Calwell** - >That the billbe now read a second time. {: #subdebate-42-0-s0 .speaker-N76} ##### Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition · Kooyong -- At present the only way by which a person living in the Territory of New Guinea can acquire British nationality is to abandon his domicil in the territory and to take up residence' in. some other British country. The object of this bill is to get rid of that anomaly within the limits of the powers that ' we at present possess. Therefore the bill provides, in effect, that a person domiciled in New Guinea is to be accorded British nationality, which will have effect within the Commonwealth of Australia and its territories. Debate on this bill might easily open into a broad consideration of the problem of nationality generally, to which the Minister for Immigration **(Mr. Calwell)** made passing reference; but I do not propose to endeavour to deal with that. All I desire to say is that, insofar as this bill deals with a specific topic, I support it. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3422 {:#debate-43} ### ALIENS DEPORTATION BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-43-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 26th July (vide page . 3211), on motion by **Mr. Calwell** - >That the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-43-0-s0 .speaker-009MC} ##### Mr HOLT:
Fawkner .- The Opposition has considered this bill. We have no desire to impede either the passage of the bill or the passage of the deportees. {: .speaker-BV8} ##### Mr Calwell: -- I thank the honorable member for Fawkner for his helpful speech. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3423 {:#debate-44} ### PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS BILL 1946 {:#subdebate-44-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 4th July (vide page 2236), on motion by **Mr. Holloway)** - >That the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-44-0-s0 .speaker-N76} ##### Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition. · Kooyong . -At present, the Parliamentary Papers Act. of 1908-1935. accords privilege to documents which are ordered to be printed by the House. This bill proposes to extend the privilege to documents which are published under the authority of a committee of the House. The vital provision is that - >It shall be lawful for a committee to authorize the publication of any document laid before it or of any evidence given before it. Where that is done, the same privilege will attach to that document and to the persons who publish it as already attaches to regular parliamentary papers ordered to be printed by the House. I cansee no objection to this bill. In my opinion, it is a very proper extension of the privilege, because a great deal of work is necessarily done by committees, and it would be a. misfortune if there should be some lack of privilege attaching to documents which are published by their authority. Therefore, the Opposition supports the bill. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3423 {:#debate-45} ### COMMONWEALTH CONCILIATIONAND ARBITRATION BILL (No. 2) 1946 {:#subdebate-45-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 4th July (vide page 2236), on motion by **Mr. Holloway** - >That, the bill be now read a second time. {: #subdebate-45-0-s0 .speaker-N76} ##### Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition · Kooyong -- It may very frequently happen - it has happened before, and no doubt it will happen again - that some judge who occupies a judicial office under a State is appointed to be a judge of the Commonwealth Arbitration Court. The purpose of this bill is to provide that where such an appointment is made, the period of the judge's service in a judicial office under a State or the period of ten years, whichever is the less, shall be counted as service for the purposes of pension and the like in his Commonwealth appointment. This provision seems to me to be a very desirable protection. It will make it easier for the Commonwealth Arbitration Court to be recruited from State courts. I have known one or two instances in the , past where a. State judge might, with great advantage, have been secured for the Commonwealth Arbitration Court, but he considered that he was not able to transfer, after a considerable number of years of service, because he would not have had credit for any portion of his service with the State. Therefore, I warmly approve of this bill. I believe, if. I remember correctly, that I had a bill not unlike it rather hopefully on the stocks afew years ago. Certainly I am glad to see it again, and to assist in passing it through the House. {: .speaker-KHL} ##### Mr Holloway: -- I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his assistance. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted. Bill - *by leave* - read a third time. {: .page-start } page 3423 {:#debate-46} ### PAPERS The following papers were pre sented : - Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment - Department of External Affairs - D. W. McNicol. Regulations - Statutory Rules 1946, No. 124. Customs Act and Commerce (Trade Descriptions ) Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1946, No. 117. Dairying Industry Assistance Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1946, No. 119. Lands Acquisition Act: - Land acquired for Postal purposes - Doncaster, Victoria. Homebush, New South Wales. House adjourned at 11.36 p.m. {: .page-start } page 3424 {:#debate-47} ### ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS *The following answers to questions were circulated: -* Re-establishment : Preference to ex-Servicemen; Dismissal of exServicemen. {: #debate-47-s0 .speaker-KQB} ##### Mr Scully:
ALP -- Yesterday, the honorable member for Wentworth **(Mr. Harrison)** asked, a question with reference to the alleged dismissal of ex-servicemen from the Commonwealth Food Control stores, St. Peters. I wish to inform the House that there have been no dismissals of ex-servicemen at the Commonwealth Food Control stores at St. Peters, and it is the policy of Commonwealth Food Control, in conformity with the Re-establishment and Employment Act, to give preference to ex-servicemen. It is a fact that a strike took place because two ex-servicemen were not unionists and had refused to join the appropriate union. The matter was referred to the State Industrial Commission, as the men were working under a State award. A compulsory conference was called, but as the' ex-servicemen were still not prepared to join the union, it was decided, without any loss to themwhatever, to give them other work .with Commonwealth Food Control. By doing this, the important work of despatching food overseas was continued and is still being continued. The Re turned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen's Imperial League of Australia, through its representative, has been in consultation with Commonwealth Food Control, and it is understood that the league will approach the exservicemen with a suggestion that they join the union. This is common- practice, as ex-servicemen themselves generally recognize that their fellows should become members of the union appropriate to their calling. I point out that practically all of the men who are employed at the stores, with the exception of two or three who are elderly, are ex-servicemen who have equal rights with the two men concerned under the .Re-establishment and Employment Act. Butter. {:#subdebate-47-0} #### Wheat Industry {: #subdebate-47-0-s0 .speaker-JTY} ##### Mr Archie Cameron:
ALP n asked the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, *upon notice -* {: type="1" start="1"} 0. During the operation of the Scully wheat scheme, how many growers in each State of the Commonwealth and in each Territory delivered *(a)* not more than. 3,000 bushels and (ft) over 3,000 bushels? 1. What were the State and Territory totals of such deliveries under *(a)* and (.6)? {: #subdebate-47-0-s1 .speaker-KQB} ##### Mr Scully:
ALP -- The answers ' to the honorable member's questions- are as follows : - Australian Capital Territory included in New South Wales. Dissected figures for later years are not available. Shipping: Queensland Coastal Service. {: #subdebate-47-0-s2 .speaker-KCF} ##### Mr Dedman:
ALP n. - On the 26th July, the honorable member for Griffith **(Mr. Conelan)** asked a question concerning the use of SS. *Delamere* on the Queensland coastal service. The Minister for Supply and Shipping has supplied the following answer: - >The *Delamere,* which is one of the 2,500-ton vessels built to the order of the Commonwealth Government, has not been chartered to Messrs. John Burke Limited, but that firm has been appointed managing agents for the ship. During the vessel's maiden voyage it was found that some adjustments were necessary to the boilers, and the *Delamereis* expected to return to Sydney early next week for these adjustments to be made. It is expected that this work will occupy two or three weeks. When the vessel is again placed in commission, the trade in which it is placed will depend on the most urgent needs at the time. Should this be the Queensland coast, the vessel will be placed on that run, but it is not possible at the present time to make any definite fixture for the ship. {:#subdebate-47-1} #### Lend-Lease: Aircraft Purchases {: #subdebate-47-1-s0 .speaker-KZR} ##### Mr White: e asked the Minister for Air, *upon notice -* {: type="1" start="1"} 0. What are (a) the numbers and (b) the types of hon-combat aircraft, mentioned in the Treasurer's recent financial statement, for which Australia has agreed to pay under the recent lend-lease adjustment with the United States of America? 1. What is the value of (a) the aircraft abovementioned, and (b) the aircraft spares mentioned in the statement? 2. What is the lend-lease value of (a) air- craft, and (b) spares, handed over to the Disposals Commission for sale? 3. What lend-lease aircraft are on hand to be sold? 4. What is the value of lend-lease aircraft realizations through the Disposals Commission, to date? {: #subdebate-47-1-s1 .speaker-KCM} ##### Mr Drakeford:
ALP -- The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows: - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. The numbers and types of non-combat aircraft for which Australia has agreed to pay under the recent lend-lease agreement with the United States of America are as per annex to the " Agreement on Settlement for LendLease, Reciprocal Aid, Surplus War Property and Claims" (page 7). 1. Based on United States of America figures which obtained when the above aircraft and spares were supplied from the United States of America under the lend-lease agreement, the total value in dollars would be: - (a) Aircraft, 27,000,000 dollars (estimated); (b) spares, 8,000,000 dollars (estimated). 3 and 4. To date, no aircraft or spares received under the lend-lease agreement have been handed over to the Disposals Commission for sale, hut action is being taken to request disposal action in respect of approximately 1,074 aircraft of various types, the total estimated lend-lease value of which is 110,000.000 dollars. Estimated lend-lease value of spares behind these aircraft is 10,000,000 dollars. 5: Nil. Coal-mining Industry. {: #subdebate-47-1-s2 .speaker-JVA} ##### Mr Morgan: n asked the Treasurer, *upon notice -* {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Since the beginning of the war to date, what amount has been paid by the Commonwealth, by way of subsidy or other assistance, to the coal-mining industry? 1. What profit (if any) has accrued to the Commonwealth as a result of control of the industry ? {: #subdebate-47-1-s3 .speaker-A48} ##### Mr Chifley:
ALP -- Inquiries are being made and a reply will be furnished as early as possible. {:#subdebate-47-2} #### Armed Forces: Army Deserters {: #subdebate-47-2-s0 .speaker-KNX} ##### Mr Harrison: n asked the Minister for the Army, *upon notice -* {: type="1" start="1"} 0. In view of the recent intimation, by the Minister that it had been decided to write off Army deserters by granting them discharges *in absentia,* will he extend the principle of granting discharges to those deserters now under sentence who had good records before deserting? 1. Will he give special consideration in this regard to prisoners who spent years in island warfare prior to deserting, and whose offence may have been committed because of compassionate reasons? 2. How many soldiers are at present serving sentences for this type of offence? 3. If he is not prepared to grant discharges to men in the categories mentioned, will he have such cases reviewed to see if clemency can be extended to these men now that hostilities have ceased? {: #subdebate-47-2-s1 .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde:
ALP -- The answers to the honorable member's questions are as follows :- {: type="1" start="1"} 0. This is already under consideration. In the meantime, discharges are being granted to members who have served three months of their sentence with good behaviour while undergoing detention. 1. Yes. 2. lc Las not been possible in the time available to ascertain the number of soldiers serving sentences for desertion. However, on 6th July, 1840, there were SOI members of the Australian Military Forces serving sentences of imprisonment or detention for all classes of purely military offences. 3. Yes. Sugar: Launceston Supplies. {: #subdebate-47-2-s2 .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde:
ALP e.- On the 24th July, the honorable member for "Wilmot **(Mr. Guy)** asked a question concerning a shipment of sugar for Launceston which, he stated, bad been ruined by sea water. I have conferred with the Minister for Trade and Customs and now inform the honorable member that a shipment of sugar and other cargo for Launceston by the steamer *Delamere* suffered some damage owing to rough -weather. However, out of a total of 325 tons of sugar on board, only 22 tons is reported to have been damaged. I assure the honorable member that every endeavour has been, and will continue to be made, to ensure chat Tasmania's sugar requirements will be met.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 31 July 1946, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1946/19460731_reps_17_188/>.