House of Representatives
28 September 1944

17th Parliament · 2nd Session



Mr. Speaker (Hon. J. S. Rosevear) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1673

QUESTION

WAR EXPENDITURE . COMMITTEE

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Prime Minister whether or not, when investigations by the War Expenditure Committee disclose fraud against the Commonwealth, the committee has the authority to act promptly to bring the culprits to justice and protect the interests of the Commonwealth. If not, will the right honorable gentleman state on whose responsibility either criminal or civil action may be instituted? ‘

Mr CURTIN:
Minister for Defence · FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The War Expenditure Committee has no authority to institute legal proceedings against anybody. Its authority is solely to report to me and to the Parliament. The law officers of the Commonwealth institute whatever investigation may be warranted by matters disclosed in the reports of the committee. If they believe that a prima facie case has been established, they tender an appropriate recommendation to the Attorney-General. I have no doubt that the law would he invoked in circumstances which warranted such action.

page 1673

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA

– Will the Minister for Repatriation state whether or not the Government is making special provision for the repatriation in cavil life of Australian prisoners of war who may shortly be returning to this country? In view of the lengthy -period of imprisonment they have undergone, is it not likely that very great difficulties may have to be overcome in this regard? If the matter has not yet .been dealt with, will the honorable gentleman give consideration to it at an early date?

Mr FROST:
Minister for Repatriation · FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · ALP

– When Australian prisoners of war return to this country, they will again come under the control of the

Army, and those suffering from dia- abilities will eventually pass to the control of the Department of Repatriation. All arrangements have been made for their re-establishment in civil life.

page 1673

QUESTION

RED CROSS RECREATION HUT, GREENSLOPES

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

– Last week, I asked the Minister for the Army whether or not he had conferred with the Minister for Repatriation in regard to the erection of a Red Cross recreation hut on a suitable site at the 112th Australian General Hospital, Greenslopes. Has the matter yet been dealt with ?

Mr FORDE:
Minister for the Army · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– Since my return from Brisbane, I have had a conference with my colleague, the Minister for Repatriation, and with Mr. Richardson, chairman of .the War Service Homes Commission. Three blocks of land adjacent to the 112th Australian General Hospital, Greenslopes, just across Mary-street, are to <be made available as a site for a Red Cross recreation hut. Steps will be taken by th6 Department of the Army, in collaboration with the Department of the Interior, to implement this decision.

1939-43 STAR.

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– The Minister for Air will have noticed that the Minister for the Army intends to adjust anomalies in connexion with the issue of the 1939-43 Star. Hundreds of members of the Air Force have been omitted from consideration in connexion with the award of this decoration. I refer to men who served in Britain. . Many of them became casualties, and discrimination has been practised against them because they are not members of air crews. Will the .honorable gentleman ensure that the consideration of their eligibility will be equal to that extended to men who have had service in New Guinea and the Middle East?

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Minister for Air · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP

– I have not read the statement of the Minister for the Army, but I assure .the honorable member that consideration has- been given to the award of this decoration to airmen who have served in certain areas. The point that he hae now raised will be taken into account by my department.

page 1674

QUESTION

INTERSTATE TRAVEL BY SCHOOL-BOYS

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the AttorneyGeneral whether or not he authorized the Minister for Transport to announce to the House last Tuesday that prosecutions would be instituted against four Geelong Grammar school-boys ? Is the right honorable gentleman aware that this morning the press published a statement by the Minister for Transport that the AttorneyGeneral and his department had not seen tho files in the case before the right honorable gentleman announced last night that these prosecutions would not be instituted ? Does he not regard this statement as a deliberate public slur on his department?

Dr EVATT:
Attorney-General · BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– My colleague, the Minister for Transport, made a statement of the facts, and then added that he had authorized a prosecution. . As I explained to the House yesterday, the authority to consent to a prosecution is vested by the law solely in the Attorney-General and officers specially authorized by him. Yesterday, the Solicitor-General received some reports in this case, including the report that had been made by my colleague, the Minister for Transport, to tho House, and other information from the Department Qf Transport. He made certain recommendations on the facts, and in relation to the law. In view of the special circumstances of the case, including the consideration that school-boys were concerned, I considered it best to give a decision at once, and I announced it at once.

Mr HAYLEN:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Transport consider the desirability of making special travel facilities available to all scholars during school vacations, as was done on behalf of certain pupils of the Geelong Grammar School?

Mr WARD:
Minister for External Territories · EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The matter of air travel does not concern my department, and I am consequently unable to deal with the provision of special air-travel facilities enabling the sons of a few privileged people to travel round the countryside. However, I consider that whatever restrictions are imposed should be applied uniformly. Special provision ought not to he made for the scholars at any school, solely because their fathers happen to be influential members of the com munity or because the fathers of some exscholars hold influential positions. I have not yet received from my departmental officers « report covering the whole of this incident. When I receive it, I shall consider what recommendations I should make in order to ensure the uniform application of whatever restrictions may be imposed. Some members of the community have been seriously inconvenienced by reason of their inability to travel at will, or to return to their homes. I have in mind particularly men who arc employed by , the Allied Works Council, and the- wives and mothers of men who are serving in the forces. I shall certainly consider the matter further, with a view to ensuring uniform application of the restrictions and the avoidance of differential treatment in the enjoyment of whatever special facilities- may be provided.

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA

– Does the Prime Minister consider that the national security authority vested in the Government by the Parliament is properly exercised if citizens of this country, whether school-boys or not, having legally moved from one State to another, arc prevented from returning to their home States at a time when accommodation is available on interstate trains, without finding themselves involved in a breach of the law?

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

– In the circumstances supposed by the honorable member I should say that it would be quite unreasonable if citizens of Australia who had lawfully moved from one State to another, and desired to return to the State from which they had lawfully departed, were prohibited from availing themselves of train accommodation which could be used without varying the regulations. I say quite frankly that the purpose of the transport restrictions is, not to prevent members of ,the public from travelling, but to ensure that train accommodation will be available for those whose business is of greatest national moment; there may be other persons, whose business is less important, for whom accommodation cannot be provided. Cognizance must be taken of the fact that the travelling facilities available are not equal to .the demand; consequently, the calls that are made upon it must be examined in some order of priority.

Mr ANTHONY:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Di d the Minister for Transport issue a statement to today’s press-

Mr SPEAKER:

– That question has already been asked.

Mr Anthony:

-It is not the same question.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have ruled that the question has been asked. Moreover, it is competent for the Chair to rule that a sufficient number of questions has been asked on any subject.

Mr Holt:

– I rise to a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have ruled upon the point of order.

Mr Anthony:

– I have not yet asked the question. I said only a few opening words.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member said quite enough to make clear to the Chair what he was going to ask, and I have ruled the question out of order.

Mr Anthony:

– I demand the right to ask a question.

Mr SPEAKER:

– If the honorable member does not resume his seatI shall name him.

Mr Anthony:

– I demand my rights in this House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I name the honorable member for Richmond.

Mr Curtin:

– I am sure that the honorable member for Richmond has every desire to respect the rules and procedure of this House, and also your authority, Mr. Speaker. I ask the honorable member, having regard to what is requisite in this place, to express regret for what has occurred, so that the matter may end there.

Mr Anthony:

– I have certain rights in this House-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member may apologize, but he may say no more.

Mr Anthony:

– I demand my rights in this House, and I prefer to go out rather than forgo them.

Motion (by Mr. Curtin) put -

That the honorable member for Richmond be suspended from the service of the House.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. J. S. Rosevear.)

AYES: 38

NOES: 24

Majority . . . . 14

In division:

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

The honorable member for Richmond thereupon withdrew from the chamber.

SirFrederick Stewart. - I am not prepared to withdraw the remark and apologize because I consider that the rights of honorable members are more important than the matter of who should stay in the House.

Motion (by Mr. Curtin) put -

That the honorable member for Parramatta be suspended from the service of the House.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. J. S. Rosevear.)

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority . . . . 19

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

The honorable member for Parramatta thereupon withdrew from the chamber.

page 1676

APPROPRIATION BILL 1944-45

Bill returned from the Senate without requests.

page 1676

QUESTION

WANT OF CONFIDENCE IN MR. SPEAKER

Motion to Suspend Standing Orders

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:
DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Yes. It is entirely out of order. The right honorable gentleman has notified me that he proposes to move the adjournment of the House to discuss my ruling. A ruling can be discussed only on a substantive motion, and not on a motion for the adjournment of the House.

Mr FADDEN:
Leader of the Australian Country party · Darling Downs

– I accordingly move -

That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the moving of a motion of no confidence in Mr. Speaker.

I do so because it is a matter of national , importance-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The right honorable gentleman must hand in his motion in writing. He may only state the reasons for suspending the Standing Orders and may not discuss any other matter.

Mr FADDEN:

– I tender my motion in writing.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have received from the right honorable gentleman a written motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders to permit of a motion of no confidence in Mr. Speaker.

Mr FADDEN:

– I take this action, because the matter is of national importance, having regard to the incidents that have just occurred in the House. I desire the suspension of the Standing Orders in order that honorable members may give consideration to your action in denying the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) the right to ask a question, and also your denial to honorable members of the right to raise and discuss a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! .The right honorable gentleman may only give reasons for the suspension of the Standing Orders and may not give details of his proposed subsequent motion.

Mr FADDEN:

– My reason for moving for the suspension of the Standing Orders is your denial of the right of the honorable member for Richmond to ask a question when you did not know what the question was or was likely to be, and also your denial to members on this side of the House to raise and discuss points of order. The honorable member for Richmond rose to ask a question and before you had heard five words you ruled him out of order.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member i3 again canvassing the merits of a proposed subsequent motion.

Mr FADDEN:

– Tour action was a definite violation of the privileges of honorable members and the Standing Orders of the House.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– I intended to ask the Minister for Transport (Mr. Ward) a question. I was not aware whether the question that the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) tried to ask was the one that I intended to ask.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is canvassing a prospective question.

Mr WHITE:

– I cannot see that I am.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member must state why the Standing Orders should be suspended.

Mr WHITE:

– You may have apprehended what the honorable member for Richmond intended to say.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order !

Mr WHITE:

– This Australian Parliament is the only place wherein the representatives of the people can seek information from Ministers. You did not give the honorable member for Richmond an opportunity to ask his question. Therefore, I disagree with your ruling and support the motion.

[CO]

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member can say all that on a subsequent motion if this motion should be carried.

Mr WHITE:

– I have already said it.

Mr MENZIES:
Leader of the Opposition · Kooyong

– The question before the Chair is that the Standing Orders be suspended to enable a motion to be made relating to the conduct of the Chair. I am not going to discuss the particular incident which gave rise to this motion, because I cannot do so at this stage, but I do say to honorable members on both sides of the House that any question which involves the decision of the Chair is not only one of first-class importance in a deliberative assembly, but also one of very great urgency. It is not a matter which should be allowed to rest. It should not he allowed to give rise to running discontent. It is a matter which should be disposed of in the interests of everybody with the greatest promptitude. For that reason, I hope that the Government will accept this motion in order that the whole matter may be disposed of before these proceedings end.

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister and Minister for Defence · Fremantle · ALP

– I address myself to the argument of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies). Standing Order 287 prescribes the procedure whereby action may be taken in the event of objection being taken to a ruling of Mr. Speaker. The standing order reads -

If any objection is taken to the ruling or decision of the Speaker, such objection must he taken at once, and in writing, and motion made, which, if seconded, shall be proposed to the House, and debate thereon forthwith adjourned .to the next sitting day.

That means that the motion must be made and seconded immediately after Mr. Speaker’s ruling has been given.

Mr Menzies:

– I had that very standing order in mind when I suggested that the Standing Orders should be suspended because that standing order does not permit of debate on the motion until the following day, and, in the interests of every one, including Mr. Speaker, this matter should be disposed of now.

Mr CURTIN:

– The Standing Orders were devised by our predecessors. They conform with those of the House of Commons. This standing order was devised so that debate on the ruling of Mr. Speaker would be postponed until heated feelings, which perhaps would prompt mistaken judgments, had cooled. It was considered by the framers of the Standing Orders that consideration as to whether Mr. Speaker’s rulings should be upset or confirmed should be adjourned until the following day. The right honorable gentleman says that’ we should deal with this matter now. My point is that Parliament itself, over a long period, has prescribed as the most suitable occasion on which to debate Mr. Speaker’s ruling the day after the ruling has been given. The Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Eadden) has moved for the suspension of the Standing Orders in order to do now what the Standing Orders say should be done at the next sitting. I quite agree that urgent matters affecting administration can be dealt with more expeditiously than the Standing Orders prescribe, but I consider that it would be a cardinal mistake to set aside the procedure laid down by the Standing Orders to determine whether Mr. Speaker’s ruling should be confirmed or dissented from.

Mr. ARCHIE CAMERON (Barker) “3.13]. - I have witnessed many occasions on which motions for the suspension of the Standing Orders have been made, but never an occasion before on which it was deemed necessary that the maker and supporters of the motion should state why the Standing Orders should be suspended. However, I do that now. The motion made by the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Eadden) is not a motion of disagreement with Mr. Speaker’s ruling. It is a motion that the Standing Orders be suspended to enable him to make a motion of no confidence in Mr. Speaker. I recall a precedent for this. The Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin), when he was Leader of the Opposition, moved a vote of no confidence in the Chairman of Committees.

Mr Curtin:

– But I did so upon notice.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Minister for Aircraft Production · BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I know. I nm about to refer to that. There is a distinction between the two cases. In the onn case, the motion concerned the

Chairman of Committees; but, in this case, it concerns Mr. Speaker. I am quite sure that the intention of the Leader of the Australian Country party is to challenge, not Mr. Speaker’s ruling, but his partiality, good sense and judgment. Those are matters which should not be left until to-morrow, but should be decided on the spot, after due debate. We have witnessed this afternoon the naming and suspension of two honorable members. It would be quite easy for others to be named. I am quite satisfied with the name my parents gave me. In no sense is this a motion of disagreement with Mr. Speaker’s ruling. This is far deeper and far graver than that, for the motion challenges the partiality, good sense and, virtually, the honesty of the Chair. Having that in view, I said to the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) as he left the chamber, after his suspension, that he should consult Speaker Lenthall’s ghost.

Mr SPENDER:
Warringah

.- I support the motion. This is not in any real sense a challenge to a ruling of the Chair. It is an endeavour, because of certain events to which I cannot refer, to express our lack of confidence in Mr. Speaker’s impartiality in discharging his important duties. But even if objection were being taken ,lo a ruling, the reasons given by the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin ) would have no application to this particular case. The Standing Orders provide for cases of emergency. When a matter of urgency arises, the Standing Orders may be suspended on a motion, duly moved and seconded, without notice. There is an important reason why the motion submitted by the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden) should be accepted by the Government. This is not a party matter; it affects the undoubted right of a. private member, at a time when practically all authority is vested in the executive, to question Ministers on matters of national and public importance. This afternoon, that right has been denied to honorable members by a display of partiality by the Chair. Consequently, members of the Opposition seek to challenge the manner in which Mr. Speaker has discharged his duties by submitting a motion of no confidence in the Chair. I cannot understand why, in those circumstances, the Government does not facilitate a debate on the subject.

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- The motion submitted by the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden) will provide honorable members with an opportunity to give reasons why, following recent occurrences in this chamber, the House should express its lack of confidence in the Chair. The Chair performs a simple, but tremendously important, function, namely, to ensure that, within the limits prescribed by the Standing Orders, the elected representatives of the people shall be given an opportunity to perform their parliamentary duties. Honorable members have the right in this chamber to state their views and to claim that certain action should or should not be taken, and within the limits of the Standing Orders, to seek information from Ministers. The honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) rose in his place and attempted to ask a question. That was quite proper.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is now canvassing the merits of what will be a subsequent motion, and the Chair will not permit it.

Mr McEWEN:

– I do not desire to infringe your ruling, Mr. Speaker. I am merely seeking some room for manoeuvre for the purpose of stating reasons why honorable members should be given an opportunity to express their lack of confidence in your ruling. We cannot do so without examining the functions of the Chair and the rights of honorable members. An honorable member has the right to stand in his place and ask a question, just as a Minister has the right to reply or to refuse to reply to it. The honorable member for Richmond attempted to ask a question.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is now canvassing whether my ruling was correct.

Mi-. McEWEN.- I am not. When you interrupted me, I was stating a fact and I claim that, speaking to this motion, I am in order in relating the facts of recent occurrences. The honorable member for Richmond attempted to address a question -to a Minister. I know, from what he told me, that the nature of the question” was different from what the

Chair presupposed. Now, the Chair is human and is capable of making an error of judgment. But an error of judgment must not be permitted to nullify the rights of honorable members. No more serious calamity could come upon us than a curtailment of the rights of private members as the result of a ruling by the Chair. The practices in parliaments arise in two ways, first, from decisions of the Parliament itself, as contained in the Standing Orders, and secondly, and even more importantly, from precedent. A precedent which may be established on this occasion is that the Chair shall be regarded as possessing the gift of second sight.

Mr Fadden:

– Clairvoyant.

Mr McEWEN:

- Mr. Speaker will be regarded as being able to read in an honorable member’s mind the question that he intends to ask. If, in the opinion of the Chair, the question should not be asked, Mr. Speaker will have the right to order the honorable member to resume his seat. That occurred this afternoon. It would be a complete negation of the democratic system of government and of those principles of freedom about which so many words were uttered on a thousand platforms during recent months, if an honorable member, upon an imagined interpretation of what he intends to say, can be ordered by the Chair to resume his seat, and upon his claiming the right to express himself, be suspended from the service of the House.

The second point which justifies an examination of the question whether the Chair, as the result of its recent decisions, is entitled to retain the confidence of the House, arises from the fact that this afternoon an honorable member rose in his place and said, “ Mr. Speaker, I rise to order.” The Standing Orders clearly provide that at any time an honorable member may rise in his place and state a point of order. When he has done so, Mr. Speaker shall uphold or reject it. Again, there can be no more serious infringement of the rights of honorable members, nor can anything be more calculated to change the course of parliamentary discussion than to deny to an honorable member the right to question a decision of the Chair by taking a point of order.

These are circumstances which not only justify a discussion on the motion of which notice has been given by the Leader of the Australian Country party, but also make it imperative that the Government shall lend the assistance of its authority to facilitate an immediate debate. This afternoon. the House was to debate tremendously important business with far-reaching domestic, financial and international implications. Must we conduct that debate in the atmosphere of an impending motion that the House lacks confidence in the Chair? Surely, that would be >a completely wrong, improper and unjustifiable course for the Government itself to permit, and I am surprised that the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) has not already said: “The impartiality of the presiding officer has been challenged, and the Government will facilitate a debate on the subject.” Although, the outcome, I fear, would not be in doubt, the Government should permit the suspension of the Standing Orders to enable honorable members to debate the motion.

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

, - This motion challenges, not the ruling of the Chair, but the right of Mr. Speaker to occupy it. The Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Eadden) has moved for the suspension of the Standing Orders in order to give the House an opportunity to debate a motion of no confidence in Mr. .Speaker. Mr. Speaker occupies his position because the House believed that he would impartially interpret the Standing Orders. The only method by which an honorable member may signify his lack of confidence in the impartiality of the Chair is to move the suspension of the Standing Orders. This matter strikes at the root of parliamentary procedure. If honorable members have no confidence in the Chair-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order I On the motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders, the honorable member may not discuss the merits of the motion of no confidence in the Speaker.

Mr HARRISON:

– Honorable members elected Mr. Speaker in the belief that he would impartially interpret the Standing Orders.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! That has nothing to do with the motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders.

Mr HARRISON:

– The House is debating a motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders in order to allow honorable members to discuss a motion of no confidence in the Chair. This is a matter of the gravest importance, and the culmination of a series of incidents in this House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order! That matter can be properly raised on the subsequent motion.

Mr HARRISON:

– I point out that the whole of your previous rulings-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! I point out to the honorable gentleman that that matter may not he canvassed on this motion.

Mr HARRISON:

– I do not propose to canvass it. If you will let me complete my sentence, you will see that my remarks are in order. This motion is the culmination of certain incidents in this House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is deliberately evading my ruling and if he continues to do so, I shall ask him to resume his seat.

Mr HARRISON:

– There must be some reason why the motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders has been submitted.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! It is most difficult when the sword of Damocles is suspended over one’s head to restrict the debate; but I cannot allow honorable members on either side of the House to canvass in any way on the present motion the merits of a .possible subsequent motion. I ask all honorable members to follow the example set by the speeches of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, which were distinctly in order.

Mr HARRISON:

– Do I understand, sir, that I cannot give my reasons for supporting the motion for the suspension of the Standing Orders?

Mr SPEAKER:

– I do not propose to instruct the honorable member how to make a speech, but I propose to keep him within the limits of the Standing Orders while he is speaking.

Mr HARRISON:

– I consider that I have the right to ask for ;a direction from the Chair. I regard this motion as being of the utmost importance not only to the political parties represented in this House, but also to every honorable member. If -we are not afforded the right to discuss the substantive motion which the Leader of the Australian Country party desires to move, we shall be prevented from doing the work we were sent here to do. We shall be deprived of the right to express our opinions, and so will not be able to fulfil our functions as representatives of the electors. A decision which would have that effect would strike right at the roots of Parliamentary practice .and, in fact, of democratic rights.

Mr Curtin:

– Parliamentary practice

Mr HARRISON:

– The Prime Minister has already addressed himself to the question. I am in the unfortunate position of not being permitted to express my mind-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! That is a gross reflection on the Chair.

Mr HARRISON:

– I ask the Chair to protect me against interjections, especially from Ministers sitting at the table. I appeal to the House to agree to the suspension of the Standing Orders especially as the matter at issue involves the honorable member who has been elected by the House to protect the interests of members.

Mr. ABBOTT (New England) [3.32 j. - I support the motion, for I consider that it is essential to debate, without delay, any complaint that may have been lodged against the conduct of the ‘Chair. I consider that the Speakership is not only .the highest office which the Parliament can give to an honorable member

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The importance of the Speakership cannot be discussed on this motion.

Mr ABBOTT:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Well, sir, I consider that the trustee of the rights of honorable members of the Parliament-

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is still out of order.

Mr ABBOTT:

– When the authority of the presiding officer of this House is impugned in any way whatsoever, I do not consider that the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) should attempt to prevent the matter from being discussed immediately. The right honorable gentleman referred to a particular standing order which supported his contention. I direct attention to Standing Order 407, which reads -

In cases of urgent necessity, any standing or sessional order, or orders of the House* may bc suspended for the day’s sitting, on motion, duly made and seconded without notice.

It ill became the Prime Minister, who has a wide knowledge of the Standing Orders, to fail to mention Standing Order 407, but to spend his time in telling us a long story about the practice of the House of Commons. I submit that we are entitled to an immediate opportunity to discuss a matter which affects our rights as members of the Parliament and which, in fact, brings into question that fundamental consideration of democracy, freedom of speech and expression, which the Minister for Information (Mr. Calwell) is attempting to suppress outside of this chamber by attacks upon the newspapers.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order !

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

– Although the Prime Minister has said that the .substantive motion which the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden) desires to move could be debated to-morrow, by moving dissent from Mr. Speaker’s ruling, unique circumstances exist which make it desirable that the subject shall be dealt with at once. There should be no delay in coming to a decision when the privileges of honorable members are threatened. Ever since the establishment of this Parliament, 44 years ago, it has been the practice for honorable members, at the beginning of each sitting day, to ask questions without notice. I understand that this practice is not recognized in the Standing Orders. In fact, one of the reasons for revising the Standing Orders-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The right honorable member is sufficiently conversant with the Standing Orders to know that he cannot canvass that subject on this motion.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I am replying to the point made by the Prime Minister. The asking of questions without notice is integral to our parliamentary system.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! I have already ruled that the right honorable member may not discuss that subject.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I desire to submit, sir, that if the right to ask questions without notice be denied to honorable members-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The right honorable member is obviously defying the ruling of the Chair. He cannot, at this stage, deliver a lecture to the House or to the Chair on the reasons why questions without notice have become the practice of this House. That has nothing to do with the motion before the Chair, which is, whether the Standing Orders should be suspended to allow a certain subject to be discussed. Any debate at this stage must be confined to that question.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I am endeavouring to reply to a point raised by the Prime Minister, who stated that, according to the Standing Orders, the substantive motion of the Leader of the Australian Country party could be debated to-morrow. As the Prime Minister was allowed to submit his case, I consider that I should be allowed to state my reply.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The right honorable gentleman is reflecting upon the Chair. The Prime Minister made no reference whatever to questions. He stated that the purpose which the Leader of the Australian Country party has in mind could be achieved in two ways, either by the method now proposed to be adopted, or by the giving of notice of his intention to move a motion of dissent from my ruling or of no confidence in the Chair.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I desire to submit reasons why the first alternative should be adopted. If the second alternative were chosen honorable members would be prevented from asking questions until the motion had been dealt with, for it would take precedence over other business on the day on which it was listed. I. suggest, therefore, that the matter should be disposed of immediately. It is necessary, of course, for dissent from a ruling to be indicated immediately, which, in itself, shows that there is urgency in the matter. I consider that if the procedure suggested by the Prime Minister be adopted the rights of private members to ask might disappear entirely.

Question put -

That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the moving of a motion of no confidence in Mr. Speaker.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. j. S. Rosevear.)

AYES: 22

NOES: 39

Majority . . . . 17

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Privilege

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- I raise a question of privilege under Standing Order 111, which reads -

An urgent motion directly concerning the privileges of the House shall take precedence over other motions as well as orders of the day.

I shall conclude with a motion involving privilege. The question that I raise touches the rights of honorable members in this Parliament. In order to consider those rights, we must have in our minds a clear picture of the circumstances in which this Parliament came to be constituted, the nature of its functions, and how those functions are performed by honorable members. The purpose of the Parliament is to give effect to the Australian Constitution, under which it was established as the supreme legislative authority in the Commonwealth. Prom its deliberations and decisions emerge all those matters which affect the safety and security of the nation, as well as the rights and freedoms of the people. The Parliament is composed of honorable members who have been elected to it in accordance with the law to represent their respective constituencies, and its functions are discharged deliberatively. The rules that govern debate are contained in the Standing Orders. The democratic structure embodying the rights of the people is affected by decisions concerning their livelihood and the security of the nation as a whole. Fair government can be assured only if full opportunity be gaven to those who have been elected to act in accordance with the rights conferred on them by the Standing Orders, which are modelled substantially on those of the mother of all parliaments, the House of Commons. The Parliament functions on a party .basis. The party which has the majority of members in this chamber composes the Executive, which in time of war is clothed by the Parliament with almost unlimited authority to act without reference to the Parliament. Members of another party or of other .parties compose the minority in the Parliament, and upon them devolves the duty and responsibility of safeguarding the interests of the people, by examining acts of the Government, and, so far as security permits, bringing to the light of day all matters which they consider ought to be ventilated. The present system will continue to function only so long as the deliberations of this assembly are presided over by a Chair which exercises the utmost impartiality ns between the majority and the minority representation, and gives decisions that are beyond question, safeguarding at .all times the individual rights of the representatives of the people.

The Standing Orders place well-defined limits on the length and subject-matter of the speeches that may be made from time to time, and the occasions on and frequency with which an honorable member may address the Chair. The sole function of the Chair is to ensure that tho deliberations of the assembly shall be conducted in an orderly manner and in conformity with the Standing Orders. For the Chair to arrogate to itself the right to interpret the intention of an honorable member before he has said sufficient to disclose his mind would be not only to infringe completely the rights of honorable members, but also to negate the whole system of government.

The question of privilege to which I direct attention relates to a recent decision of the Chair. An honorable member, in accordance with established practice, rose to address & question to a Minister upon a matter which had arisen from an executive act that had been performed under the canopy of .the National Security Act. The Chair assumed the responsibility of deciding that the honorable member intended to ask a question that already had been answered and was, for some reason, improper. Perhaps that is not the most important basis upon which the rights of honorable .members could be limited or denied. Traditionally in British parliaments, the rights of members have been secured through the ages only as the result of continuous struggle. That those rights, and through their exercise the privileges of the .people, wall remain safe only so long as unceasing watch is maintained over them, is beyond question.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I invite the honorable gentleman now to state his question of .privilege.

Mr McEWEN:

– The question of privilege is that an honorable member is entitled to ask .a question .and, concurrently, to raise a .point of order. Under the comprehensive system of rules which govern the debates in this House, many decisions have been made by the Chair. Surely it is not claimed that on every occasion the Chair, in the different persons who have occupied it-

Mr SPEAKER:

-Is the honorable gentleman satisfied that in his most recent, remarks he has stated his question of privilege ?

Mr McEWEN:

– I am not.

Mr SPEAKER:

– So far, he has not touched on a question of privilege. I have been very generous in the forbearance that I have shown towards him.

Mr McEWEN:

– I propose to deal with two separate questions of privilege. One arose from the decision of the Chair to forbid an honorable member to conclude a question, and the other from its refusal to hear further an honorable member who rose in his place and said merely: “Mr. Speaker, a point of order.”

Mr SPEAKER:

– If those are the only grounds on which the question of privilege is raised, I am sorry that I have to rule the honorable member out of order, because no question of privilege is involved. If the honorable member so desires, he has means for testing the ruling of the Chair.

Mr McEWEN:

– Then I must ask the Chair a question.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The Chair does not propose to be catechized. I have ruled that there is no question of privilege, and that the honorable gentleman is out of order.

Mr McEWEN:

– In rising to speak to a question of privilege-

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable gentleman will resume his seat. I have ruled that the reasons he has advanced do not constitute a matter of privilege.

Mr McEWEN:

– Will the Chair hear my motion ?

Mr SPEAKER:

– That would not alter the position.

Mr McEWEN:

– Am I to understand that I am not entitled to submit a motion?

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable gentleman is to understand that I have ordered him to resume his seat.

Mr Spender:

– I rise to a point of order. Is not a question of privilege involved when an honorable member seeks to enforce a right, either on his own behalf or on behalf of another honorable member? Secondly, does not the determination of privilege ultimately rest with this House, irrespective ofany standing order? If so, on what ground does the Chair refuse to hear the motion of the honorable member for Indi?

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have stated that it is not necessary for the Chair to give reasons for its ruling unless it so desires. The honorable gentleman does not suffer from any physical defect which would have prevented his hearing what I said to the honorable member for Indi. The matter has been ruled out of order. If any honorable member disagrees with my ruling, he has his remedy.

page 1684

WAR PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL 1944

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Lazzarini) agreed to-

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of the ConsolidatedRevenue Fund a sum for war pensions.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Lazzarini and Mr. Chifley do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Lazzarini, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minis ter for Home Security · Werriwa · ALP

– I move -

That thebill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this measure is to provide £12,000,000 out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund for the payment of war pensions. The bill is similar to others submitted to Parliament from time to time for the purpose of appropriating an amount from the Consolidated Revenue Pund for payment into a trust account to enable pensionsto be paid at rateswhich have already been approved by Parliament. The balance of appropriation now remaining is sufficient only to meet pension payments during the present month. Expenditure on war pensions during the present year is estimated at £11,900,000. The expenditure last year was £11,004,000. The additional expenditure is due to the increase of the number of pensioners arising out of the present war. Parliament is being asked to vote £12,000,000 which is approximately a year’s expenditure. This sum, however, will not be withdrawn from revenue immediately, as only sufficient funds are paid to the trust account to meet the periodical payments of pensions. This measure has no relation whatsoever to the rates or conditions under which war pensions are paid, but merely authorizes the provision of funds for the purpose.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- Before this bill is passed the Minister for Repatriation (Mr. Frost) should make a statement on matters affecting his department. During the debate on the ‘budget, various matters touching repatriation were raised, but they were not replied to. For instance, I pointed out certain anomalies in connexion with dependants’ pensions, and urged that the means test should be modified. Under the law as it stands, a parent might lose every member of his family, and yet not be entitled to a pension if he is earning more than £1 19s. 6d. a week, or has property valued at more than £400.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:

– The honorable member has got in a nice little speech on repatriation, but it is out of order.

Mr WHITE:

– I agree that it would be out of order for me to discuss pension rates, but I understand that I am entitled to discuss general principles. Frequent reference has been made to the vocational training of ex-soldiers, but we have never been told just what is being done. Mon are being discharged every day from the forces-

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is out of order.

Mr WHITE:

– Surely some of this money will be spent on vocational training.

Mr Lazzarini:

– No, only on pensions.

Mr WHITE:

– Well, I was discussing pensions a moment ago, and I was told that I was out of order.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– I rise to a point of order. Is it not an accepted principle, dating back to Speaker Lenthall, in the reign of Charles I, that grievances must be redressed before supply is granted to the Crown? If the honorable member for Balaclava, has *» grievance in connexion with repatriation, he is entitled to make it known.

Mr SPEAKER:

– This is not a supply bill.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– Am I to understand that a bill providing for the payment of £12,000,000 can be put through without any comment being permitted as to the use of the money?

Mr Lazzarini:

– This bill merely provides for the transfer of a sum of money from Consolidated Revenue to the trust account.

Mr WHITE:

– Well, I think I havemade the point I set out to make. Thewife of an ex-serviceman, who married after 1931, is not, under the act, entitled! to a pension upon his death.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is out of order. The bill provides only for the transfer of money to a trustfund.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– I raised a point of order and, so far as I know, it has not been replied to.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I did not deem it necessary to reply. I have already ruled that it is out of order to discuss details of pensions payments.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– When I raised the point of order I wanted to get a. ruling. Where am I to send for it? Would I get a more speedy decision if I sent to one of the step-brothers of Hermann Goering?

Mr WHITE:

– Surely it is in order, when a bill is being passed to provide money for the payment of service pensions, to say that the Minister for Repatriation ought to be here to see it through.

Mr SPEAKER:

– This bill has nothing to do with repatriation details.

Mr WHITE:

– But, you will agree, Mr. Speaker, that if the Minister for Repatration were here he might have been able to tell us something more than the Minister for Home Security, with the very best of intentions, was able to tell us.

Mr MORGAN:
Reid

.- Provision should be made for the payment of pensions on compassionate grounds when a case does not come within the four corners of the act. Cases have come to my notice- “Mr. SPEAKER. - Order ! The honorable member is just as much out of order as was the honorable member for Balaclava.

Mr White:

– Oh, no, Mr. Speaker, you are unfair to me. The honorable member is much more out of order than I was.

Mr SPEAKER:

– This is a bill for the purpose of transferring a certain sum of money, from the Consolidated Revenue Fund, to a trust account. It has nothing to do with the details of repatriation administration.

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA · CP; LCL from 1940; CP from 1943

– Nor with the ultimate disposal of the money,?

Mr SPEAKER:

– Not this bill.

Mr Spender:

– Then what are wc here for?

Mr SPEAKER:

– If the honorable member for “Warringah (Mr. Spender) is not more careful in the making of very audible remarks about the Chair, he will be wondering what he is here for.

Mr Spender:

– All right, put me out if you like.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 (Short title).

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- [ should like the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) to give some information about the conditions of the “War Pensions Fund. How much money is in the fund now, and what will be the amount when there is added to it the money provided for in this bill? If the amount is not sufficient to provide for the matters raised by the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. “White) and the honorable member for Reid (Mr. Morgan)”, a subsequent appropriation will be necessary.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minister for Home Security · Werriwa · ALP

– It is necessary to pay £12,000,000 into the fund in order to cover current payments rf pensions. If more pensioners come on to the fund, an -additional appropriation will have to be made. However, according to present estimates, the amount of £12,000,000 will be sufficient to meet all claims, leaving a balance for contingencies. I can assure the right honorable member that whatever claims may be made upon the pensions fund they will be met, and an additional appropriation will be sought if necessary.

Sir Earle Page:

– I regret that the Minister has seen fit to answer me in this way. The Government is getting into a slipshod way of handling finance.

Mr LAZZARINI:

– The right honorable gentleman could not have listened to the explanation which I gave in my second-reading speech. I pointed out that expenditure on war pensions during the present year was estimated to bc £11,900,000, as compared with £11,004,000 for last year. The additional expenditure is due to an increased number of pensions because of the present war.

Sir Earle Page:

– How much is in the trust fund now?

Mr LAZZARINI:

– There is £3,000,000 in the fund to meet pension payments until the 30th September.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 2 and 3 agreed to.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Barker · ALP

– In reference to clause 3–

The CHAIRMAN (Mr Riordan:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND

The committee has agreed to clause 3.

Mr SPENDER:
Warringah

.- These clauses have been put through very hastily, and I did not notice that clause 3 had been agreed to. I did not want to speak to it, but evidently the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) did. Surely the Chair is not going to take the stand that because, technically, a clause has been agreed to, no further reference can be made to it although an honorable member was actually on his feet wishing to speak. The clause could be recommitted. Evidently we have no rights whatever here.

Preamble and Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.

Motion (by Mr. Lazzarini) proposed -

That the report be adopted.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Barker · ALP

– There is a time-honoured procedure under which the .lower house may discuss grievances whenever the Crown asks for a grant of money. There are certain definite matters in regard to repatriation which I desire to raise. There is, for instance, the fact that exservicemen should receive various forms of vocational training. There is also the case of a man who while serving overseas became involved in a serious accident. The Repatriation Department completely disregards any claim by this man.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:

– The honorable member is not in order in discussing grievances at this stage. The motion before the Chair is for the adoption of the report from the committee, and the only debate may be on whether that report is correct or not.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– I know that you, Mr. Speaker, will rule that the Chair has no knowledge of what takes place in committee.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Exactly.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– As 1 said on a previous occasion, as far as I am concerned, that is a very good job.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Report adopted.

Hill read a third time.

page 1687

LOAN RILL (No. 2) 1944

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Lazzarini ) proposed -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of moneys be made for the purpose of a bill for an act to authorize the raising and expending of a certain sum of money.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- J have traversed both on the budget and in other debates some of the anomalies of ih« Repatriation Act. 1 do not propose to go very much into detail except on the matter of the service pension which is given to ex-servicemen who are unemployable. It is in fact a pension for premature old-age or invalidity. It is given to men who cannot work at all or only to a limited extent.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Mulcahy:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Order! This motion lias nothing to do with service pensions. The honorable gentleman may discuss only the financial policy of the Government.

Mr WHITE:

– But what is the money to be raised for ? Surely service pensions vill be paid out of the money raised.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable member is not entitled to raise such matters at this stage.

Mr Menzies:

– On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, I understand -the matter will appear more clearly perhaps m the second-reading speech - that this is designed to lead to a bill to» obtain a loan appropriation of £150,000.000 for war expenditure, as a part cf the total war expenditure of E500,000,000 for the year. I gather from, the Estimates that that total war expenditure includes the expenditure of various departments, including the Repatriation Department. In those circumstances, is it said that a matter arising in relation to the Repatriation Department, on which some of this money will be expended, is outside the scope of the resolution or the bill to follow?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– Honorable members may discuss such matters on a supply bill but not on a loan bill.

Sir Earle Page:

– In support of the point of order taken by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies), I, too, wish to take exception to the limiting of discussion on the way in which this money may be expended. It would be quite competent for any honorable member to move that the amount to be expended upon repatriation be reduced, and thereby he would undoubtedly be within his rights in discussing’ repatriation.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Not on a loan hill !

Sir Earle Page:

– When I was Treasurer, I ensured that every opportunity should be given to honorable members to deal in the widest way possible with the purposes for which money was being raised.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.Order !

Mr Menzies:

– If Parliament did not approve of the purposes it might noi approve of the loan.

Sir Earle Page:

– That is so.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– The amount of £150,000,000 is to be raised by means of treasury-bills and Commonwealth

Bonds and is to be expended for purposes of war. The Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Keane) is about to go to America. Some of this money may be used to pay for his passage. Would it be in order to suggest that while he is in America he be forbidden to go anywhere near Lake Michigan for fear that he might commit the Labour party to part-ownership of the Chicago Tribune?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member may discuss the loan policy of the ‘Government only. General matters can be raised only on supply bills.

Sir Earle Page:

– Does your ruling mean, sir, that I am not at liberty to raise a matter concerning the handling of timber? This money is to be used for the purchase of hundreds of millions of super, feet of timber. Your ruling :seems to be at variance with the practice of Parliament.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– The right honorable gentleman could have raised any question on the Appropriation Bill, which has now been passed.

Sir Earle Page:

– The Appropriation Bill had nothing whatever to do with the raising of this money. In those circumstances, surely that argument does not hold water.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– Do you rule,’ sir, that a private member may not bring forward something which may have come into his hands after the passage nf the Appropriation Bill?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– - Not on this bill.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954

– Time has passed, and I have received telegrams and letters containing grievances.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.But the honorable .member may not discuss them on this motion.

Sir EARLE PAGE:
-Cowper

– I wish to discuss the sources from which these loan moneys will be raised. The budget speech of the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) and figures cited by the Leader of the Australian ‘Country party (Mr. Fadden) disclose that £S,000,000 or £10,000,000 more has been obtained from the Commonwealth Savings Bank for the purposes of treasury-bills than has been raised for ordinary stock. It is extraordinary that the savings of the people should be invested in treasurybills returning to the savings bank 25?. or 30s. per cent., compared with 2 per cent, paid by the bank on deposits. Surely money lent by the savings bank to the Government should be on a longterm basis.

Mr Chifley:

– Who said that the savings bank was lending money at 25s. per cent?

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The honorable gentleman himself and also the Leader of the Australian Country party. Those figures show conclusively that money deposited in the savings bank by the people must be going into treasury-bills.

Mr Chifley:

– That is absolute nonsense. The savings bank lends its money as an ordinary investor at ordinary rates of interest.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The policy is quite wrong. Many years ago I passed through Parliament legislation to safeguard the people’s savings by placing the savings bank under separate control. That was done in order to prevent what is raking place now.

Mr Chifley:

– There is no savings bank money invested in treasury-bills.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The money deposited by the people in the savings bank should be absolutely safe. If the Government wishes to borrow from the savings bank it should do so at an interest rate higher than is paid to depositors.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- We have been told that we may discuss the loan. As the Government, the Opposition and, in fact, all persons will be enthusiastic that the loan shall be fully subscribed, expenditure on the raising of the loan should be kept down and unnecessary expenditure avoided. We have seen in the press that the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) or the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley), or both, intend to repeat what I think was a very egregious expenditure on the referendum campaign. They intend to send to every householder of the Commonwealth a note reminding him that a loan is being raised. Honorable members will remember the high quality note-paper on which the Treasurer and the Attorney-General (Dr. Evatt) wrote letters enclosed in long stamped envelopes to voters during the referendum campaign. I asked the Treasurer how much that cost, and his answer disclosed that 7 tons of first-class paper was used and that the expenditure amounted to £15,000. A repetition of that is intended ! The public will know from broadcasts and the press that subscriptions to a war loan are again being invited. Personal letters to householders are sheer waste. If the Minister for Information (Mr. Calwell), or whoeveris responsible, wants to send literature around the landscape, let him be curtailed by the rest of the Ministry. Let there also be curtailment of the theatrical street shows which interrupt traffic. The people will respond as they have always done without theatrical appeals to their patriotism.

Mr McDonald:

– What about the Tivoli shows?

Mr WHITE:

– Tivoli shows? I was not aware of them, but I saw in Collinsstreet a few days ago a congestion of traffic where a scaffolding was being erected at a large cost for street show purposes connected with the war loan. The City of Melbourne is well aware that a loan is in progress. It will live up to its reputation and subscribe its full share of the loan without money being wasted on appeals to its people. During the referendum campaign, the Government showered the country with propaganda pamphlets, although the paper was urgently required for the publication of Australian literature. Large quantities of paper should not be wasted in a similar manner to advertise the Victory Loan.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Barker · ALP

– I agree with the remarks of the honorable member, for Balaclava (Mr. White). One of the most disturbing things which Australians in our capital cities witness during loan campaigns is the “ travelling circus “. Although I have never been to Wirth’s Circus, people who have seen it inform methat it is a really good show. The “ travelling circuses “ which advertise victory loans serve only to delay the traffic. The people are well awarethat the loan has been launched, but the policy pursued by the Government does not insist that those who are able to subscribe shall doso, but leaves it entirely to the “willing horse “. That policy is bad, and, sooner or later, will bring just retribution politically on the community. The Government’s loan policy is creating huge debts, and the Government is not keeping a watchful eye on expenditure.

The most important statement which I have heard recently regarding public finance was contained in the reply of the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) to the budget debate. I should like the honorable gentleman to explain what he meant in his forecast about banking and insurance policy. Ifthis Government at long last has a policy in the incubator, or something which may hatch as a policy for dealing with banking and insurance, it will have a most important bearing on public loans. I have a strong feeling that the Treasurer, when replying to the budget debate, was talking not to the House of Representatives, but to the Labour leagues and branches, and the next Labour Conference.Consequently, he spoke in a language which honorable members on this side of the chamber do not comprehend. It is high time that the Government made a definite statement about its financial policy, because it is clear from the well-considered words of the Treasurer, in his imitation of a fireside chat, that something is in the incubator. Whether it will turn out a swan or a goose, I do not know, but I have a strong suspicion.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Lazzarini and Mr. Chifley do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Lazzarini, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minister for Home Security · Werriwa. · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to obtain a loan appropriation of £150,000,000 for war expenditure. It will also grant authority to raise as required, by way of public loans, war savings certificates, &c, the necessary amount of loan moneys to finance war expenditure in the current year. The Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) referred at length to the subject of war finance and our anticipated expenditure for the present year in the budget speech and, therefore, it is unnecessary for me to cover that ground again.

War expenditure for 1944-45 is estimated to reach £505,000,000. Of this amount, it is anticipated that approximately £177,000,000 will be met from revenue, leaving a balance of £328,000,000 to be provided from loan. The balance of the loan appropriation available at the 30th June, 1944, was £206,000,000. This amount, together with the provision in this bill from revenue, will provide sufficient appropriation to meet our requirements for the present financial year.

Mr ABBOTT:
New England

– Honorable members hope that the public will subscribe with the greatest willingness to this Victory Loan, but certain factors in connexion with the raising of the money are discouraging possible subscribers. During the budget debate, I mentioned that the Taxation Department was requesting people to explain where they had obtained the money to invest in Commonwealth loans, and I warned the Treasurer that this inquisition would have a most detrimental effect on subscriptions. Replying to my statement, the Treasurer leant nonchalantly against the table, scoffed, and declared that he had no evidence of the practice. I thought that I detected a note of disappointment in the Treasurer’s voice when he made that statement, so I propose to place before him correspondence between the Deputy Commissionerof Taxation in New South Wales and a citizen who invested money in a victory loan. This illustration should convince the Treasurer of the advisability of restraining his bloodhounds in future and preventing their baying from frightening prospective subscribers. My correspondent, whom I do not know personally, wrote to me on the “2nd September last that he had read in the Sydney Morning Herald the statement of the Treasurer regarding the alleged questioning by taxation officials of persons who had sub scribed to the Commonwealth loan. He stated -

Mr. Chifley states that “ he had heard something about it in the newspapers buthad never been able to hear of its actually having been done”. Really! ! !

My wife and I have supported the war loans to the limit of our ability, but I stopped after receiving a letter, a copy of which is enclosed, also my reply. The original of the Taxation Department’s letter is available if required.

Will you please acknowledge receipt ofthis letter just in case the censor has a look and does not forward the whole.

Why not pass the copies of lettersenclosed to Mr. Chifley?

The letter to which the correspondent referred, is dated the 22nd March, 1944, and was signed by the Federal Deputy Commissioner of Taxation, New South Wales. It read -

Referring to your return of income for the year ended 30thJune, 1943, you are advised that it is noticed that the capital invested in Commonwealth loans has increased from £4,720 during theyears 1940 to 1942 to £5,720 during 1943.

It willbe appreciated ifyou will state - 1.F rom what source this additional capital was derived?

Themaner in which it was previously invested?

What income (if any) resulted from such previous in vestment?

Kindly furnish the above information in writing and in your reply quote FileNo.

On the 3rd April, my correspondent sent the following reply to the Taxation Department: -

In response to the many appeals to “ Save and Invest “, &c., my wife and I reduced our spending to essentials and our savings were invested in War Loan stock at the lower rate of interest.

This answers all your questions.

Apparently to try to help the war effort by reducing expenditure renders one “ suspect “. I shall not make this mistake again.

I warn the Treasurer to mark those concluding words “I shall not make this mistake again “. The committee responsible for advertising war loans has sent to every member of this House a booklet containing hints to speakers. One of the hints is, “ Always deal with any questions that you are asked “. But when we are cross-examined about these practices of the Taxation Department our position will become untenable. The Deputy Commissioner of Taxation and his bloodhounds should not be allowed to bay and bark at the public who are patriotically subscribing to loans. When I raised this matter earlier, the Treasurer denied that the department was taking this action, and I accepted his statement. The trouble is that Ministers do not know what public servants are doing. They are assured by those gentlemen that nothing wrong is beingdone, but people know that these things happendaily.If the Treasurer expects people to subscribe freely to war loans, he should not allow the Taxation Department to treat them as persons suspected of having concealed a portion of their income. If people are ready to go without conveniences that they could enjoy in order to save money for subscription to loans - and the Treasurer is a sufficiently good economist to know how necessary that is - they should not be treated as criminals and cross-examined by treasury bloodhounds concerning the source of their contributions.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1691

TRACTOR BOUNTY BILL 1944

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (‘Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Beasley) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purpose of a bill for an act to amend the Tractor Bounty Acts 1939.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Beasley and Mr. Makin do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Beasley, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now road a second time.

The purpose of the bill is to authorize an extension of the bounty on the production of tractors of the internal combustion engine type for three years at the same rates as are provided in the Tractor Bounty Act 1939, viz. : -

These rates of bounty will be paid if not Less than 90 per cent. of the materials and parts used in the tractors is of Australian origin. Where Australian materials and parts constitute less than 90 per cent., the bounty will be reduced in exact proportion thereto, but no bounty will be payable unless at least 60 per cent. of the materials and parts is Australian.

The rates of bounty will also he reduced concurrently with any increase that may occur in Customs duties after the commencement of the proposed law, on the types of tractors subject to bounty or on parts of such tractors except pneumatic tyres and tubes. Any such reduction of bounty will, of course, be equivalent to the value of the increaseof customs duty.

The bounty on Australian tractorsfirst became payable in 1922 under the Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act, the object being to encourage Australian production without imposing any direct cost burden on users, most of whom are farmers. Imported tractors have therefore remained unaffected by protective customs duties, the rates being, free British preferential tariff and 10 per cent. for crawler-type tractors or 12½ per cent. for other types under the general tariff.

Under the encouragement bounty prior to the war, the local production of tractors gradually increased, reaching a peak output of 455 in 1937-38. During the same period, 1923-24 to 1937-38, imports of tractors also increased very substantially. The peak output of 11,026 occurred in 1937-38. The industry has been seriously disturbed by war conditions and local production of tractors has fallen rapidly, due to manufacturers being engaged on defence work. With the easing of demands for defence priorities, more attention is being devoted to the manufacture of tractors.

This bill appropriates for bounty payments each financial year the sum of £100,000.

Mr Harrison:

– Is that an increase?

Mr BEASLEY:

– Yes. At present Australian production supplies only a very small percentage of the demands and it is obviously desirable that Australia should be less dependent on overseas sources of supply for a product which is so essential to economical farming methods. As the Tariff Board has pointed out, the average rate of bounty under the existing Tractor Bounty Act is £50 per tractor, and the maximum aggregate amount that can be paid in any one year is £35,000. This means that the bounty is payable only on an average yearly production of 700 tractors. The present limit would discourage expansion and it is desirable that £100,000 be provided annually, which would enable full payment of bounty on 2,000 tractors in any one year. However, under the principal act any unpaid balance in one year could be paid in the subsequent year. This bill provides for the elimination of that provision in consequence of the increase of the amount now proposed to be allocated.

The principal act provides for payment of bounty for five years ending on the 23rd October, 1944, but it is clearly desirable that any assistance now offered should be available only until it becomes possible to consider the requirements of the industry with greater knowledge of post-war conditions. This bill, therefore, seeks to extend bounty for a further three years.

In support of their claims for bounty, manufacturers are required under the principal act to submit their balancesheets and profit and loss accounts each half-year.

Mr White:

– Could the Minister give me the names of the manufacturers?

Mr BEASLEY:

– I could obtain the information for the honorable member. This requirement has been found to be of very little real value to the department, and entails considerable work and expense for bounty claimants. The provisions of this bill will merely require manufacturers to submit their accounts each financial year.

Other provisions in the principal act express the usual conditions and powers which experience has proved to be essential to the efficient administration of the bounty and the safeguarding of the Commonwealth’s funds. The industry is worthy of encouragement and is of considerable present and potential value to the Commonwealth. It should provide considerable employment. Progress in manufacturing efficiency is reflected in the fact that the rates of bounty are 20 per cent. less than those provided under the original Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act of 1922.

I commend this bill as one which merits favorable consideration.

Mr. HARRISON (Wentworth) [4.55’J. - The Opposition does not intend to oppose this measure, but I question whether the Minister is correctly informed when he says that the amount of £100,000 to which he referred is an increase of the amount provided under the provisions of the principal act. I should like some information of the reason for any variation of those figures. I direct the attention of the Minister to the provision of the bill relating to the limit of annual bounty. Hitherto it has been the practice for any unpaid balance remaining in the fund at the close of a financial year to be made available for use in subsequent years. This has been of great advantage to the industry. If it be repealed grave disabilities may occur. I point out to the Minister that, owing to war conditions, the tractor manufacturing industry in Australia has been seriously dislocated. The factories have been diverted to war production and, in my opinion, it will take at least three years to rehabilitate the industry. We all are well aware of the manner in which factory plant and machinery has been diverted from one place to another during the last few years, in order to meet war requirements. Obviously, this must have seriously affected normal factory operations. It seems to me that it will take at least twelve months or two years to restore factories to their prewar condition. That being so, it is quite certain that factories manufacturing tractors in this country will not be able to resume normal operations for some considerable period after they complete their defence jobs, and so will not be able to take advantage of ‘bounty payments which may be restricted to a particular financial year. At the moment I am concerned chiefly that the Minister should reconsider the proposed repeal of the provisions of the principal act relative to the limit of the annual bounty or, that he should explain more fully why this is considered to be necessary.

Mr WILSON:
Wimmera

.- The manufacture of tractors in Australia is of great importance to our agricultural industries. Prior to the outbreak of the war tractors were being efficiently produced in Australia. Machines made here were comparable in every way with those imported from abroad. »I commend the Government for the encouragement that has been given to the industry, and I suggest that factories which have been diverted from tractor manufacture to other war needs should be released as soon as practicable for the resumption of tractor production. There is a tremendous demand for tractors throughout Australia. The machine has come to stay. Farmer.’, are anxious to have on their properties mechanical power, which has been proved beyond doubt to be the most economical method. I agree with the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) that any portion of the bounty unexpended at the end of one year should be carried forward into the next year, so that the utmost encouragement may be afforded. At the same time, I impress on the Government the need to control retail prices fairly rigidly. Since normal production was interfered with by war conditions, prices have risen greatly, and I trust that the industry will be encouraged by having them maintained at a reasonable level.

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I am glad that the Government is giving effect to the principle established twenty years ago, by its proposal to pay a bounty on the manufacture of tractors. Thus the cost of production will bc materially reduced, and the retail price will be a reasonable one, whilst the manufacturer will obtain fair recompense. I welcome the increase of the total amount of the bounty from £35,000 to £100,000, and support the proposal of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) that any money unexpended in one year shall be carried forward into the succeeding year. Supervision should be exercised in order to ensure efficient manufacture, and there should be insistence on the provision of ample supplies of spare parts. When I visited several of the great American factories that were manufacturing this machine and implements of war two years ago, I learned that the practice was to make simultaneously with the machines 100 per cent, of spare parts, in order that they would be available concurrently with its use. Throughout Australia there are thousands of tractors which cannot now be used because a spare part costing up to 7s. 6d. is not available to replace one that has been worn out. Apparently, many of the spare parts that are needed for some of the machines will never be available, because of a change of pattern almost yearly by one of the local manufacturers, and the absence of definite records of what changes were made. Efficient production will ensure a great future for the industry. Tremendous expansion of activity is already occurring in every avenue of production. The use of a tractor with a log hauler attached has practically doubled the area from which many hardwoods and soft-woods may be hauled, because the tractor can operate in ravines and other parts where the conditions are too difficult for the use of bullocks. In addition, the expeditious handling thus made possible has enabled operations to bo conducted profitably in areas which otherwise would be neglected. By this means, employment will be stimulated. At least 2,000 or 3,000 more men are now employed in the timber industry on the north coast of New .South Wales, as the result of the utilization of mechanical power, and timber production has increased by at least three times compared with the pre-war output. That the cost of road-making has been substantially reduced by the use of the bulldozer and the tractor is unquestionable. The original estimate of the cost of a rn-d in which I was interested was £10,000, and the time needed for completion was to be eighteen months. With the use of a bulldozer, it has been constructed for less than £1,000 in. a period of eight weeks. A firstclass machine, with ample power and all necessary equipment, is essential. What is true of timber haulage and roadmaking is true also of agriculture. During the last five or six years, agricultural production in Australia has been maintained largely as the result of the use of tractors. Production on the land in Great Britain has been more than doubled because the number of tractors available for agricultural purposes has been doubled. The use of mechanical power would be of very great assistance in reducing costs and making reproductive from the outset many water conservation, irrigation, and power generation projects. The number of tractors needed will be considerably greater than is now available. The honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) yesterday mentioned the enormous sums that had been expended during war-time on the importation of tractors. Many of the factories now producing war requirements are so tooled that they would readily be convertible to the making of tractors. In the next eighteen months, we shall have to apply our energies to the defeat of Japan, consequently the bounty will not operate fully during that period, because many prosspective manufacturers will be deterred from beginning operations. Therefore, any amount unexpended at the end of -the year should not revert to revenue but should l>e carried over into the succeeding year.

Mr ABBOTT:
New England

.- I commend the Government for having brought down this bill to continue the bounty on the manufacture of tractors. As those who are to participate in it will thus derive great benefit from Commonwealth revenues, they must manufacture the very best tractors and also an adequate supply of spare parts, in order that the users may not be obliged to purchase >a new machine, solely because some small part is not replaceable. I support the remarks of the right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page), .who said that certain Australian manufacturers had not maintained supplies of spare parts during the great drive for the production of vegetables and agricultural commodities. I am a plain, blunt man, and give credit for either good deeds or misdeeds. The two manufacturers of tractors in the Commonwealth are, A. H. McDonald and Company, of Melbourne, which manufacfactures the McDonald Imperial superdiesel tractor, and the Howard Automailufacturing Company, which manufactures in Sydney the Howard autocultivator tractor. I have received numerous complaints from constituents, particularly in the Lower Hunter areas, which contain some of the best agricultural land in New South Wales, in which Howard auto-cultivators are used, of tininability of the farmers to obtain spare parts from either the manufacturers or the agents. In one yard in which repairs were being made to tractors, I counted seven or eight Howard auto-cultivators that were lying idle. I understand that about ten machines which were urgently required for vegetable production wen1 idle on the farms. Some of them had been out of commission for eight or nine months, and it was impossible to obtain spare parts from the company. Those who derive benefits from this, bounty should behave as other companies are required to behave when the Government assists them, by maintaining supplies of spare parts, in order that the farmers may not be handicapped in their important task of food production. The bill should stipulate that Australian manufacturers shall keep themselves up to date and produce tractors of the latest types that are being produced in the world. I believe that I am correct in saying that a crawler type of tractor is not being made. The McDonald machine may have alternative tracks fitted to it, but there is no machine comparable with the Holt caterpillar tractor, the Cletrac caterpillar tractor, or the McCormackDeering tractor. The manufacturers should be compelled to keep their machines up to date in comparison with those that are manufactured in other countries, and it should be a sine qua non that those who participate in the bounty should maintain adequate supplies of spare parts, in order that the operations of farmers may not be delayed interminably when a part has to be replaced. The policing of the bounty may be effected through the organization of the Tariff Board, or it might be done better through the State Departments of Agriculture.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I support this bill, which provides for the payment of a bounty on the manufacture of tractors. I believe that it is wise to encourage the manufacture of machinery suitable for the working of big holdings. Some time ago, an order was placed in the United States of America for 10,000 tractors at a cost of £6,000,000. In my opinion, it would have been better to have devoted a part of this money to subsidizing the manufacture of tractors in Australia.

Sitting suspended from 5.18 to8 p.m.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– With adequate financial inducement many Australian firms would undertake the manufacture of modern tractors. The firm of Walkers Limited, Maryborough, which has shown considerable interest in the construction of diesel engines, would probably have been willing to execute a large part of the order for tractors that was given to the American manufacturers. It is no answer to say that when that order was placed Australia could not afford the skilled labour and steel necessary for the local manufacturing of tractors, because, as I have commented previously in this chamber, skilled labour and steel are being absorbed in the construction, at the cost of £4,250,000, of a warship which, I hope, will be obsolete long before it will ever be required for active service. The labour, materials and money being expended on the construction of that vessel could, with better results to Australia, have been diverted to the manufacturing of the tractors which primary producers need so badly. The development of the tractor industry ought to contribute substantially to the solution of the problem of how to employ our men when the war ends. Instead of buying tractors abroad in future, I hope that the Government will supplement its payment of a bounty by placing orders with local manufacturers for all the tractors Australia requires.

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

in reply - I shall place before the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Keane) the suggestion of the honorable member for Wentworth (Mr. Harrison) that any part of the tractor bounty unclaimed at the end of the year should be carried over to the following year. Originally, the bounty was limited to £35,000 a year. The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following table disclosing that in no year since the inception of the bounty has the full amount been claimed : -

The bounty has been fixed at the rate of £100,000 a year on the recommendation of the Tariff Board, which recommended also that there should be no carry over, so that firms might not be enticed into the manufacture of tractors unless assured of a market. The appropriation of £100,000 annually for the purposes of the bounty is subject to review by the Tariff Board whenever the Minister for Trade and Customs may consider necessary.

The right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page) and the honorable member for New England (Mr. Abbott) referred to the need for supervision of the manufacture of tractors. Section 10 of the principal act provides for regular inspections to ensure the maintenance of quality. It has been suggested that Howard Auto Cultivators Limited have-not given sufficient attention to the manufacture of spare parts. The firm’s excuse was that it has been engaged on the manufacture of munitions. That excuse may not be valid in view of the fact that tractors are as essential as are munitions to Australia’s war effort. Close supervision is needed to ensure that sufficient spare parts shall be manufactured. The Government must also ensure that the bounty shall not be paid merely to recompense manufacturers of unsuitable tractors. If we are to pay bounty we must be able to determine what shall be manufactured.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth

. -In 1937-38 when £25,556, the highest amount ever paid in the history of this bounty was paid, 455 tractors were manufactured in Australia. Only 84 tractors were manufactured in 1943-44, when the amount of the bounty was £5,651. The Minister for Supply and Shipping (Mr. Beasley) said that the Government had decided that there should be no carry-over of unexpended bounty. However, I point out that the conditions which existed in the Australian tractor industry before the Avar cannot be regarded as a criterion for either the present orthe future. We are, as it were, becoming “ tractor minded “. After the war we shall be looking forward to greater development of the tractor industry, because we shall require a constantly increasing number of tractors for develop- mental work. The Government, therefore, ought to have shown more imagination in deciding its policy in this matter. After the war, it will take some time for the firms which may be interested in the manufacture of tractors to convert their plants from a war-time to a peace-time footing. If the industry is to be encouraged the unexpended portion of the bounty should be allowed to carry over each year so that manufacturers shall have the opportunity to recoup themselves in subsequent years for losses which they may suffer in their earlier operations.I hope the Minister for Supply and Shipping will impress that argument on the mind of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Keane).

Bill agreed to.

Bill reported from committee without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 1696

BILLS RETURNED FROM SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate: -

Without amendment -

Appropriation (Works and Buildings) Bill 1944-45.

War-time (Company) Tax Assessment

Bill 1944.

Sales Tax (Exemptions and Classifications) Bill 1944.

Income Tax (War-time Arrangements) Bill 1944.

Commonwealth Employees’ Furlough Bill 1944.

States Giants Bill 1944.

Income Tax Assessment Bill (No. 2) 1944.

Without requests -

Income Tax Bill 1944.

page 1696

SULPHUR. BOUNTY BILL1944

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Beasley) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purpose of a bill for an act to amend the Sulphur Bounty Acts

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Beasley and Mr. Frost do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Beasley, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

. -I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to authorize an extension of the bounty on the production of sulphur. This bounty is based on a sliding scale adjusted to a basic rate of £1 7s. a ton, which is payable when the average cost of imported crude brimstone for any quarter ending March, June, September or December is £6 a ton. As the average cost of imported crude brimstone in any quarter rises or falls from £6 a ton in stages of1s., the actual bounty payable will fall or rise from £1 7s. by1s. a ton, with the proviso that the maximum rate of bounty under any circumstances shall be £1 16s. a ton. Because of the war, overseas prices have risen and importing costs have increased. Consequently no bounty has been paid on sulphur since 1940. Therefore the renewal of the provision for bounty is unlikely to cause expenditure of Commonwealth funds for some time. In the principal act, the cost of imported sulphur is based on “ all sulphur “, but this bill amends the definition to base the imported cost on “ crude brimstone “.

Bounty will be payable on Australian elemental sulphur, or on the sulphur equivalent of sulphuric acid produced from any Australian material. In accordance with similar provisions in other bounty acts, the bounty on sulphur, after the commencement of this act, will be reduced whenever new or increased customs duties may be imposed on imported sulphur by amounts equivalent to those duties. Under the principal act, an amount of £110,000 a year has been appropriated for the purpose of bounty payments, with a proviso that any unexpended balances could be carried over to succeeding years. It is proposed under this bill to increase the annual appropriation to £180,000 and to eliminate the provision regarding unspent balances. The reason for the increase is to provide for bounty on 100,000 tons of sulphur a year, which is the present capacity of the plant in Australia and which is not likely to be exceeded, at least for a considerable time. At the maximum rate of bounty, £1 16s. a ton, this would require £180,000.

The principal act limits the operation of the bounty to a period of five years, ending on the 23rd October, 1944. This bill does not impose a time limit for the. reason that, if bounty again becomes payable, the Government intends to have the nature and extent of the “assistance required by the industry again investigated by the Tariff Board. Post-war conditions cannot be predicted with any degree of certainty, and this bill merely provides a safeguard for the industry, pending a further investigation. should overseas prices fall and import costs decrease.

Under this bill, it is proposed to amend lib-section 2 of section 12 of the principal act, which requires bounty claimants to furnish a balance-sheet and profit and loss account, &c, each half year. The object of requiring this information was to have available an indication as to profit prospects for the year in order to ensure that excess bounty would not be paid.

In practice, it has been found that this entails considerable extra work by the bounty claimants and does not afford the department any great assistance, as, generally speaking, the preparation of the balance-sheets, &c, takes considerable time, and, consequently, are supplied to the department too late to be of any real value. Therefore, it is proposed to require bounty claimants to submit balancesheets, &c, only in respect of each financial year. All other provisions in the principal act express the usual conditions and powers which experience has proved to be essential to the efficient administration of the bounty and the safe-guarding of the Commonwealth’s funds.

It is not necessary for me to recapitulate the history of the assistance given to the production of sulphur in Australia, which commenced in 1922, as full details were given when the Sulphur Bounty Act 1939 was introduced. I content myself with saying that in 1922, it was realized that serious economic waste was involved in the non-utilization of the sulphuric acid available in large quantities in certain materials and ores. Prior to 1922, this acid content could not be utilized as its extraction was not a commercial proposition. The establishment of sulphuric acid production has provided a much-needed local source of supply of sulphur, thus safeguarding the fertilizer and chemical industries It is also of importance from the defence aspect.

Since the commencement of the present war, the cost of importing sulphur has greatly increased, and it is estimated that the saving effected on the quantity produced locally has been much greater than the total bounty paid. The sulphuric acid industry ha.s increased its efficiency from time to time. The present bounty of £1 73. a ton is 40 per cent, less than the original bounty of £2 5s. I commend the bill to the House as a progressive measure for an efficient and valuable Australian industry.

Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth

– The Minister for Supply and Shipping (Mr. Beasley), directed attention to the fact that no bounty had been paid on sulphur since 1940. But that is no reason why the ‘Government should not continue to carry over unexpended balances from year to year. The Minister certainly indicated that the Tariff Board would review this industry from time to time, and, for that reason, the Government had not limited the amount to be paid by way of bounty under this legislation. The act itself provided that the bounty should operate for a period of five years.

The Government proposes also to extend the bounty to Australian elemental sulphur. I should like the Minister to inform the House whether elemental sulphur is being produced in this country to any marked degree. The bounty was introduced for the purpose of giving an incentive to industry to recover sulphur from sulphuric acid. Although Australia has many sulphur-bearing ores, most of them were neglected for many years and sulphur was imported. Considerable encouragement has been given to the industry, which has suitably responded. The Government should not take any action to prejudice the efforts that have already been made to develop this industry. Under the principal act, an amount of £110,000 was appropriated annually for bounty payments. The bill increases the figure to £180,000. If the other restrictions were waived. additional assistance could be given to enable the industry substantially to develop.

The reason why the Government proposes to ask the Tariff Board to investigate this industry from time to time is fairly obvious. Honorable members can easily visualize that post-war conditions’ may materially affect our importations of sulphur. The price mav be reduced and working costs may be decreased. The Government should not take any undue risks regarding that possibility, but should formulate a flexible policy for dealing with it. The industry is of substantial value to primary producers, because of its important relationship to fertilizers. Therefore, representatives of the Australian Country party should ensure that the industry shall not be detrimentally affected in any way. 1 know that they are jealous of this industry and will resent any interference by the Government to prevent its natural development. In addition, the industry is an important factor in supplying some of our defence requirements. The Opposition will not object to the passage of this legislation.

Mir. RANKIN (Bendigo) i[8.27].- 1 urge the Minister for Supply and Shipping (Mr. Beasley) not to take any action that will be likely to check the development of the sulphur industry, ‘because it :s essential to the manufacture of the superphosphate so vital to our primary industries. Most of our country is hungry for superphosphate, but the supply of this fertilizer is insufficient to meet all demands. Australia is importing low-quality phosphatic rock from the Red Sea area, although in Transjordania there is a huge deposit of rock of high sulphuric content, 74 per cent, which is almost as great as that of the Nauru deposits. Unfortunately, the Commonwealth Government has not attempted to obtain supplies of phosphatic rock from Transjordania, and I urge the Minister to examine the matter. Lack of superphosphate is one of the causes of the decline of primary production. With the exception of the drought, it has been responsible more than any other factor for the reduced dairy production.

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

in reply - The original amount set aside for this bounty was £110,000. We have raised it to £iS0,000, but it is true that we have not provided for any carry-over. The highest amount ever required has been £S7,000, so that honorable members will see that regard to the amount wl. aside provided a fairly wide margin. T entirely agree with the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. Rankin) that the more we could have made our country sellcontained the better off we should have been in the war, but we may learn a lesson from our experiences during the last four years, and so provide against a recurrence of the shortages we have had to face. The total amount paid under the bounty since it has been in operation is approximately £1,000,000, so that there has been a fairly generous approach to the industry. It is intended to encourage the development of elemental sulphur deposits in Australia, if that is at all possible, but up to date no such deposits have been located.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1699

WIRE NETTING BOUNTY BILL 1944

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Administrator’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Beasley) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purpose of a bill for an act to amend the Wire Netting Bounty Act1939-1940.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Beasley and Mr. Frost do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill presented by Mr. Beasley, and read a first time.

Secondreading.

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The bill seeks to authorize the extension of the bounty on wire netting for three years at the same rates as are provided in the Wire Netting Bounty Act 1939-1940, namely, 9s. 7d. a ton. The provisions in the principal act expressing the usual conditions and powers, which experience has proved to be essential to the efficient administration of the bounty and the safeguarding of Commonwealth funds, remain unaltered with the following exceptions :- (a.) The principal act provided that any bounty appropriation unexpended in one year could be carried over to a subsequent year. This provision has been eliminated as the amount appropriated each year, namely, £5,000, is sufficient to pay in any year all valid claims. The amendment is desirable also so that the principal act may be brought into conformity with other proposed bounty legislation.

  1. Under the principal act, bounty claimants are required to submit their balance-sheets, profit and loss accounts, &c, each half-year. This has been found to be of very little real value to the department and entails considerable work and expense for bounty claimants. This bill proposes to require manufacturers merely to submit their accounts each financial year.

Bounty on wire netting was first provided in 1922 as an alternative to customs duties to relieve users of wire netting, who are very largely primary producers, of the burden of maintaining the wire netting industry. Under bounty,the industry has made very good progress and gives considerable employment-. The Tariff Board’s report of the 15th September, 1944, expressed the opinion that the bounty could now be withdrawn. This opinion is undoubtedlycorrect as regards most of the output, which is produced by two long-established firms in New South Wales which are earning satisfactory profits, and thereby are not eligible for bounty. However, the position of a manufacturer in Western Australia is not on so satisfactory a level. This manufacturer, whose profit is less than the 6 per cent. specified in the principal act, is concerned with his future in the post-war era, as he is working under some obvious disabilities compared with the manufacturers in New South Wales?. The Tariff Board has admitted that the Western Australian manufacturer has aided the food-production programme at a critical time during the war andthat his establishment there assists decentralization of industry.

Therefore, the Government has decided that there is justification for continuing the bounty for a further period of three years.

Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth

– This is one of the cases in which a bounty hasproved successful in doing - the job for which it was originally designed. That is borne out by the fact that in New South “Wales those firms which originally took part in the establishment of the industry of manufacturing wire netting have reached such a stage of efficiency that they now make a profit much above the statutory 6 per cent. This bounty has been designed to help one particular firm in Western Australia. The bill to effect this purpose w.a3 agreed to by Parliament in or about 1939. It virtually makes a gift of £5,000 to the one undertaking. It naturally follows that when the Western Australian project develops .to the standard of efficiency of the undertakings in New South Wales, the bounty will automatically disappear. Indeed, the Tariff Board has declared that there is no need to continue the bounty, because the business has reached a stage at which it should no longer apply. But the board agrees that the people of Western Australia should be helped by the Commonwealth Government to establish the industry, thus carrying out the Government’s policy of decentralization. It therefore recommends that in this case the bounty should be allowed to continue. It has been pointed out that the firm might have reached an improved standard of efficiency had it not diverted a large part of its plant and staff to food production, and that it should not be penalized for helping the Commonwealth’s war effort. The sum asked for is small, the bounty has been in operation since 1939, and any encouragement that can be given to a firm of this nature to reach a. stage of efficiency equal to what has been achieved in the other States should willingly be given. The Opposition therefore will not oppose the bill.

Mr ABBOTT:
New England

– I take it that the bounty is payable on all sizes of wire netting, but the Department -of War Organization of Industry some time ago gazetted a regulation that only rabbit netting of 1-J-in. gauge should be manufactured in Australia. This has created considerable difficulties for many pastoralists because the gauge specified in the New South Wales Pastoralists Protection Act for rabbit-proof netting fences is 1^-in. Consequently, no grazier in that State, who uses the only netting which is available for rabbit-proof fencing purposes, namely, H-in. gauge, is able to receive the benefit of the half rates granted under the State act. I should like the Minister to take that matter up with the Minister for War Organization of Industry (Mr. Dedman) and the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture (Mr. Scully), so that the embargo on the manufacture of li-in. netting may be removed.

Mr ADERMANN:
Maranoa

– I appreciate the need for the bounty to assist a small manufacturing firm in Western Australia, where wire netting is so much required. No doubt New South Wales has had the benefit of the supply of wire netting made by the two major companies which manufacture within its borders. I could wish that the amount of the bounty could be considerably increased, so that a similar firm might be established in Queensland, because the present bounty appears to be of no particular use to those who need it in that State, since no wire netting is available. I a.m sorry to say that that is the present position. Protest after protest is being made by local authorities in all the western parts of Queensland and New South Wales, but more particularly Queensland, that the dog menace is becoming so serious that pastoralists are being driven off their holdings, because they cannot get wire netting at all. I should like the Government to consider increasing the amount of the bounty, and to take steps to make a supply of netting available to those districts, in order to prevent the dingoes from killing the stock and driving the western areas our of production.

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- I support the remarks of the honorable member for New England (Mr. Abbott) and hope that the Minister, in his reply, will comment upon the points which the honorable member raised. I understand that the bounty is payable on all gauges and sizes of wire netting, but, as the honorable member pointed out, the Department of War Organization of Industry has forbidden the manufacture of 14-in. gauge, which is the standard gauge used in the erection of fences for protection against rabbits. The lj-in. mesh has been established as the standard size by the pastoralist protection boards of New South Wales, because it is accepted as the most satisfactory for rabbit protection. I have no doubt that the Minister knows that those boards in certain circumstances and in certain districts strike a levy upon stock-owners per head of stock, for the purpose of raising funds to control the vermin. The Pastures Protection Board has encouraged settlers to use this mesh,’ for it has provided that those who do so shall be liable for only half rates. The policy which this Government is applying, no doubt on the advice of the Department of War Organization- of Industry, cuts right across the policy that Has been approved by an act of the New South Wales Parliament, and is being applied by the Pastures Protection Board.

Mr Beasley:

– ‘Can the honorable member suggest any reason why the l-J-in. mesh should have been preferred?

Mr McEWEN:

– I suppose that mesh would require a little less wire than 1¼-inmesh and it would also require slightly less zinc for galvanizing. Fences made of li-in. mesh netting are not nearly so effective as fences of 1-^-in. mesh for small rabbits can get through them. It is most unfortunate that settlers, who are compelled by the exigencies of war to use 1-J-in. mesh netting, will not only be deprived of the benefit of the 50 per cent, reduction of their rating by the Pastures Protection Board, but will also have a less effective fence. Notwithstanding what the Minister has said I have seen no galvanized netting in my district for a considerable period. We all are aware, of course, that zinc has been in short supply. All the available zinc has been required for munitions purposes. It may be that that phase has now passed, and that some zinc could now be provided for galvanizing purposes. Wire netting is made from very thin wire, and, normally, in the construction of rabbitproof fences, the bottom part of the fence, including some of the netting, is buried under the ground. If black wire netting has to be used for these fences the results are not at all satisfactory, for the black wire rusts very quickly. I suppose its life would not be more than two or three years, and, in areas where the soil is highly mineralized, it would not be more than one -year. From my own experience I know that galvanized netting has a life which ranges from 20 to 40 years. I question whether it is worth while paying the bounty when black netting is used, but I am not prepared to go so far as to ask that payments shall be limited to galvanized netting. I emphasize to the Minister the great hardships of farmers in these days. I am sure that those who are obliged to use black netting will suffer substantial financial loss. The labour charge is a considerable factor in the construction of fences, and it is desirable that the best possible materials shall be used, otherwise the value of the fence is greatly diminished.

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

in reply - The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) referred to the amount of bounty that would be payable in Western Australia. The act provides that the amount may be up to £5,000, but it is probable that only about £400 will be disbursed. In regard to New South Wales manufacturers, I am advised that neither Lysaught nor Rylands receives bounty, for their businesses are thoroughly established and their rate of profit is such that they are not eligible for .these payments. I bring to the notice of honorable members the following paragraph from a Tariff Board minute concerning wire netting -

During the last two years, owing to t.he demand for zinc for war purposes, the company has only been able to supply wire netting in an ungalvanized state. This netting is sold at an extra discount of a per cent, off the list price of galvanized netting. The cost per ton of wire for making wire netting is lower than that of zinc for galvanizing. However, a thicker wire is u sed! in the black netting in order to bring the weight up to that of the galvanized. Furthermore, it is coated with a tar compound to replace the galvanizing.

I realize that tarred wire is not a satisfactory substitute for galvanized wire.

Mr Ryan:

– Has the Minister any idea when zinc will become available for galvanizing purposes?

Mr BEASLEY:

– I could, of course, make the stock reply that that will depend upon war developments.

Mr Abbott:

– Is it not a fact that Sir Colin Eraser stated about eight months ago, shortly before his death, that zinc was now available for munitions in excess of requirements and that stocks were accumulating?

Mr BEASLEY:

– I am unable to say whether that is so. I assure honorable members, however, that the Government will give close attention to the views that have been expressed, and will endeavour to make l-J-in. mesh netting available as soon as possible.

I have just been advised that there is still a world shortage of zinc. Some questions were asked as to which government introduced the bounty on wire netting. I find that in 1939 the Tariff Board recommended that the bounty should be discontinued, but the Menzies Government did not accept the recommendation

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 1702

ALUMINIUM INDUSTRY BILL 1944

Bill presented by Mr. Beasley, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · West Sydney · ALP

by have - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

On the completion of my speech I shall ask that the debate be adjourned until the next sessional period.

The purpose of this bill is to ratify an agreement between the Commonwealth Government and the Government of Tasmania to establish the aluminium ingot industry in that State. The agreement was reached, following negotiations early this year between my colleague, the Attorney-General, and officers of his department, officers of the Department of Supply and Shipping and the Premier of Tasmania and officers of the Tasmanian Department of Mines.

Mr Guy:

– Is the industry to be established “ for the purposes of defence “ only?

Mr BEASLEY:

– No ; it will be also “for other purposes”, but T shall deal with that point later.

The industry is to be established under an agreement signed by the AttorneyGeneral (Dr. Evatt) on behalf of the Commonwealth Government and by the State Premier, Mr. Cosgrove, on behalf of the Tasmanian Government.

The bill provides for the setting up of the Australian Aluminium Production Commission of four members, two representing the Commonwealth,- one of whom will be chairman, and two representing Tasmania, one of whom will be vicechairman. Mr. A. V. Smith, secretary of the Department of Supply and Shipping, and Dr. I. W. Wark, Chief of the Division of Industrial Chemistry of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, are the Commonwealth representatives, and Mr. L. R. Benjamin, general superintendent of the Australian Newsprint Mills Proprietary Limited, of Tasmania, and Mr. W. H. Williams, Director of Mines in Tasmania, are the Tasmanian representatives. Mr. A. C. Smith, of the Department of Supply and Shipping, is secretary to the commission.

The measure proposes the appropriation of £1,500,000 by the Commonwealth Government, and a £l-for-£l contribution by Tasmania towards the cost of establishing the industry. Therefore the total cost of establishing the industry is estimated at £3,000,000. This estimate is based upon the best available information, but the eventual cost may be more or less than that sum. Without approval by the Minister administering the act, the commission cannot undertake any single project involving an expenditure of more than £50,000. Before giving approval for bigger expenditure the Minister shall consult the Premier of

Tasmania and take his views into consideration. Subject to that limitation and to any directions which may be given by the Minister, the technical and commercial management of the enterprise will be entirely in the hands of the commission. It is provided that the commission shall not be in any way concerned in, or act in concert with, any commercial trust or combine, but shall always he an independent Australian undertaking. This is an important feature of the agreement. The commission has wide scope for its activities. It has power to acquire land, buildings, plant and equipment; to obtain supplies of electricity, bauxite, alumina and other materials. It has power to encourage and assist the production and manufacture in the Commonwealth or its territories of all materials required for the production of ingot aluminium. It has power to determine the processes to be employed for the production of ingot aluminium; to arrange for the construction and maintenance of works, and to conduct scientific research - a very important provision. It may engage such experts and. appoint such officers and staff as it thinks necessary. It may dispose of ingot aluminium and other products and property of the commission, and may enter into contracts and agreements and do such other acts necessary for the performance of its functions as shall be approved by the Commonwealth and the State. The commission will debit its accounts with interest on the amounts appropriated or contributed by the Commonwealth and the State. The rate will be as the Treasurer of the Commonwealth may determine from time to time. Any profits not, required for the development of the undertaking will be used first in equal payments to the Commonwealth and the State of interest owing or accrued, and secondly, in equal repayment of the capital sums appropriated or contributed by the Commonwealth and the State. For its part, the State is to ensure that supplies of electricity required by the commission for the production of ingot aluminium shall be made available at a rate satisfactory to the commission. There are the usual provisions for the auditing of the accounts of the commission by the Auditor-General of the Commonwealth, and for the furnishing of reports at regular intervals.

The agreement provides that the works of the commission for the production of ingot aluminium from alumina shall be established in Tasmania. This means that the smelter will be established in that State. Every ton of ingot produced requires 4 horse-power of electric power, therefore, a unit for . the production of 10,000 tons of ingot per annum, would require 40,000 horse-power. This power will be available in Tasmania from the large hydro-electric scheme there, at a price comparable with that which applies to the large aluminium smelters in North America - the figure mentioned is .Id. a unit. Nowhere else in Australia is there sufficient power available for this purpose at the present time, nor could it be supplied at anything like the price. The effect which the price of electricity has upon the economics of this industry may be gathered from the fact that each .Id. a unit means an addition of approximately £10 a ton to the cost of the metal. The world output of aluminium ingot to-day is using about 12,000,000 horsepower. In cases of extreme urgency power from coal has been used, notably in Britain, to produce this metal, but most of the coal power plants have now been closed, since coal is to-day probably the scarcest of minerals.

No decision has been made yet on where the alumina factory is “ to be established. This will depend entirely upon economic and technical factors. Australia is fortunate in having large supplies of good -quality bauxite. Aluminium ingot is produced from alumina which in its turn is obtained from alumina-bearing materials, the chief of which is bauxite. The great aluminium plants in North America have to draw their bauxite from distant sources such as Dutch Guiana. The best Australian deposits of bauxite so far discovered are in the Boolarra-Mirboo district of Victoria. Deposits also exist in the Ouse Valley in Tasmania, the Emmaville-Inverell and the BundanoonMarulanCrookwell districts of New South Wales, and in the Darling Range about 30 miles from Perth in Western Australia. In addition, there are* large supplies of alunite at Lake Campion in Western Australia. Experiments are being carried out by the Government of Western Australia, in co-operation with the Commonwealth, to see whether satisfactory alumina can be produced at reasonable cost from Lake Campion alunite. Western Australia already has a potash industry using alunite as the source material. It is to these alunite residues that attention is being given. There was. no aluminium ingot industry in Australia when this war began. There has been a limited Australian production of aluminium articles from imported aluminium ingot. Before embarking upon this project the Commonwealth had the benefit of the advice of leading Australian technicians, who carried out extensive investigations of the production of aluminium in North America and the United Kingdom. In addition, the Commonwealth copper and bauxite committee carried out a comprehensive survey of the bauxite resources of Australia. It is due to the efforts of that committee that we possess such a complete knowledge of the bauxite resources of this country and are able -to give the lie to the often-expressed opinion that Australia has not sufficient bauxite or that its quality is not good enough to be the basis of an aluminium industry. Already certain preliminary steps towards the establishment of the industry have been taken. Members of the commissionelect held their first meeting in Hobart on the 19th April, following immediately upon the signing -of the agreement between the Attorney-General (Dr. Evatt) on behalf of the Commonwealth, and the Premier of Tasmania on behalf of the State. Both the Australian Minister in Washington and the High Commissioner in London have been asked to make inquiries. The High Commissioner has been in touch with Sir Stafford Cripps, Minister of Aircraft Production in the United Kingdom, with regard to obtaining plant and the services of technical experts. These inquiries are proceeding. This bill represents the culmination of investigations and endeavours extending over the past four years.

Mr Menzies:

– What is the estimated use of ingot aluminium?

Mr BEASLEY:

– Six thousand tons per annum. It will be recalled tha t before this Government came into office, a previous administration entered into a contract for the supply of 20,000 tons of aluminium from the United States of America over a period of six years. This aluminium, of course, is required for our aircraft construction programme. Three years of that period have expired. The contract provided for the supply of 3,000 tons a year in the first two years, and 3,500 tons a year in the remaining four years.

Mr Menzies:

– That contract was made in 1941.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Yes, and supplies have been coming forward in sufficient quantities to maintain our aircraft production programme.

Mr Menzies:

– Why does the Minister assume that the aluminium demands of this country will be doubled in the future?

Mr BEASLEY:

– Because of a wider use of light metals. The practice throughout the world to-day is to use these metals, the chief of which is aluminium, in much greater quantities than ever before.

Mr Menzies:

– It is assumed, then, that it will not be necessary to import aluminium.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Yes. We propose to do all we can to make Australia selfsupporting in that regard.

Mr Menzies:

– In accordance with the Atlantic Charter!

Mr BEASLEY:

– Yes, to the degree to which this Government’s policy of providing full employment is also in accordance with the Atlantic Charter. As I have said, the use of .aluminium is increasing in other countries, and I hope that Australia will not be backward in this regard. In Pittsburgh, in the United States of America, steel girders have been replaced by aluminium girders on one of the main bridges in the city, and, at aluminium works in North America, experiments in the replacement of structural steel members by aluminium girders are being carried out. A large factor in our post-war use of aluminium will be, of course, our defence programme, particularly the aircraft industry. True, production will not be at the present high rate, but our defence industries must be maintained at a much higher level than before the war. Consequently, the availability of this metal in our own country will be of great importance. In addition, of course, there are 101 uses to -which aluminium may be put in the production of civilian goods. A. detailed survey has been made of Australian requirements of aluminium in the post-war period. ‘This survey has indicated a minimum consumption of 6,000 tons per annum. Indications are that this will be greatly increased during the time required to construct and bring our new plan into full production. This may take two or three years or even more.

Mr Menzies:

– I take it that, we shall not be committed to very much expenditure until then.

Mr BEASLEY:

– The proposal is that the industry shall be financed on a £1- for-£l basis by the Commonwealth Government and the Government of Tasmania. The first allocation is £1,500,000.

Mr Menzies:

– Does the Government intend to seek parliamentary approval of that expenditure?

Mr BEASLEY:

– No appropriation for this purpose has been made in the Estimates, but, if the venture is of national value, I am sure that the right honorable gentleman will not object to the taking of whatever preliminary steps are necessary.

Mr Menzies:

– I have not yet decided that the venture is of national value.

Mr BEASLEY:

– On that point, the right honorable gentleman and I may disagree; but I am confident that the majority of the people of this country will support my views. The peace-time use of aluminium will be greatly in excess of what it “was in 1939, particularly in the -field of architecture. It will be used for window-sills, architraves, and even doors themselves. In the United States of America, aluminium is being used extensively in the manufacture of railway equipment. As a matter of fact, I believe that there are three or four trains made completely from aluminium. Thus, it will be seen that the uses to which this metal can be put are many and varied.

The agreement is the main feature of the bill. Another important feature is that the project may not be disposed of unless both Houses of the Parliament agree to that course being followed.

Mr Guy:

– That applies only to the smelter3.

Mr BEASLEY:

– The honorable member for Wilmot (Mr. Guy) has referred to the smelters twice by way of interjection. The Government, for reasons that it considers wise, believes that it is advisable to take one step at a time in connexion with this project. Therefore, the arrangement with the Government of Tasmania deals only with the erection of a smeltery. That appears to be the length to which that Government is prepared to go in order to have the industry established within its borders. This legislation will not prevent the Commonwealth from engaging in further development in connexion with the rolling plant mills and fabricating section of the industry. The Government has some such plant at the extrusion works at Granville and Wangaratta. The Australian Aluminium Company Proprietary Limited exclusively owns the Granville extrusion, rolling and casting works. The Munitions Department and the Department of Aircraft Production each has established an annexe adjacent to the works. The Munitions Department owns the remelt annexe and plant which were established for the segregation and remelting of scrap aluminium. This plant consists of magnetic separator, drying drum, and furnaces for smelting. The Department of Aircraft Production owns the heavy forge annexe for the manufacture of forgings for air screws. I have been advised that the contracts entered into with the Australian Aluminium Company Proprietary Limited provide that the company shall operate both annexes for the duration of the war and six months thereafter. The plant would then be available for exclusive use by the Commonwealth if that were desired.

Mr Menzies:

– This proposal relates purely to ingot aluminium, leaving extrusion and fabrication to a later stage?

Mr BEASLEY:

– Yes. The honorable member for Wilmot wanted to know where we stood, and I thought that this information might be of interest as showing the degree to which the Commonwealth is involved in the extrusion plant. The Wangaratta works are owned exclusively by the Commonwealth. No agreement has yet been signed, governing their operation by the Australian Aluminium Company Proprietary Limited, but negotiations are proceeding which contemplate operation by the company for the duration of the war and six months thereafter. The foundry is complete, the hot mill has been partly delivered, but not erected, and the cold stands and heat treatment tanks are in course of erection. The extrusion plant has been partly delivered, but not erected. It is expected that it will be possible to roll sheets by December, 1944, but it is not possible at present to state a date for the production of extrusion. Were it so desired, the Government might be able to defer or cancel the completion of the agreement with the company.

This legislation does not provide for the extension of activities beyond the manufacture of ingot aluminium; but should the Commonwealth wish to enter the wider field at any time, it will not be prevented from doing so. My legal friends, doubtless, will have something to say in regard to the powers of the Commonwealth to engage in the manufacture of aluminium for purposes other than those relating to defence.

Mr Menzies:

– We shall say as little as possible.

Mr BEASLEY:

– The right honorable gentleman and his colleagues may prefer to leave the determination of the matter to a judicial authority. The Government considers that the agreement with the State of Tasmania at least removes the danger of its being involved in any legal argument that might arise in connexion with the matters with which the bill deals. I stress that the commission will decide the area from which bauxite supplies may be obtained. It may consider more desirable and economical the use of the deposits in Victoria instead of those in Tasmania. The Government is particularly anxious to follow closely the operations at Lake Campion, in Western Australia, in the belief that the use of alumina from that source might be desirable. A good deal of experimental work will be necessary, and the stage has not been reached at which a firm opinion may be expressed.

Mr Ryan:

– Has the honorable gentleman information concerning production costs in other countries?

Mr BEASLEY:

– I have not those figures with me. The aluminium cartel is one of the strongest in the world, and really “ writes its own ticket “. A comparison with its costs would not be easy. Members of the press delegation which visited Canada inspected the works in North America. From what they have told me of the conditions of labour and the circumstances generally in which the industry is conducted, I am sure that these would not be acceptable to the people of this country. I leave the matter in the hands of the House.

Mr White:

– Why were works established at Wangaratta, necessitating rail haulage, instead of in Tasmania?

Mr BEASLEY:

– My colleague who is associated with the project, the Minister for Munitions (Mr. Makin) informs me that the matter of power is involved. Wangaratta is a junctionat which the highest voltage level can be maintained. If is also wise to decentralize such projects, so that “ all the eggs may not be in the one basket”.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Menzies) adjourned.

page 1706

ADJOURNMENT

Copper Production in Mount Isa and Cloncurry Districts - Man Power: Local Government Advisory Committee - Landlord and Tenant Regulations - Drought Relief - Wheat Industry: Price of Wheat - Land Acquisition by Aliens - Royal Australian Air Force : Service in India and Burma ; Commissions ; Mail Service - Publication “ Action “ - Release of Slaughtermen.

Motion (by Mr. Curtin) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr RIORDAN:
Kennedy

.- Last year, the Department of Supply and Shipping instructed that copper production should cease in the Mount Isa and Cloncurry districts. The operational period was subsequently extended to the 31st December of this year; in other words, the gougers and the Mount Isa Company were permitted to produce copper up to that date. Since early this year, no communication has been received from the department as to whether or not production will be permitted in the area after the 31st December, with the result that those engaged in it are concerned as to their future.

For many years, the Cloncurry field has been a prolific producer of copper. It covers approximately 20,000 square miles of country, and embraces an area approximately 300 miles in length and from 20 to 100 miles in width. Long before, as well as during, the last war, three smelters were operated in the district by three different companies, and from 1910 to 1919 the Hampden and Mount Elliott companies paid in dividents more than £1,250,000. The mines operated by those companies employed hundreds of men, and thousands of tons of ore, carrying from 3 per cent, to 6 per cent, of copper, was .blocked out and developed, awaiting exploitation. Owing to the fall of the price of the metal, and the failure of the Government to grant certain freight concessions, these companies were forced to cease their operations in 1922, and all the smelters and mines were closed. From 1924 to 1929, quite a small number of gougers were operating in the area, producing ore which they sold on trucks in Cloncurry. In April, 1933, the price of copper slumped to £37 a ton, with the result that many parties distant from the railways had to cease operations. The roads became untrafficable, and the mines fell into disrepair. On the Ballara field, which is 26 miles from the rail head, 90 men used to be employed, but it had to close down. The Government of Queensland commissioned Mr. Askill to report on the field, and he suggested the establishment of a suitable treatment plant. His report has not been made public. The Commonwealth Government, in association with the Governments of Queensland and Western Australia, arranged for a geophysical survey of the mining resources of northern Australia, including Cloncurry, and the task occupied three years. This should be sufficient evidence of the vast possibilities of the northern mineral fields. A report was presented, which is now in the possession of the Commonwealth. Having regard to the extreme urgency of the situation, I place before the House the following particulars relating to the Queensland fields: -

If the intention of the Government is given effect, and copper production ceases, the livelihood of a number of men will be jeopardized. Gouging is the only work they know. Four hundred men are engaged at Mr Isa, which previously produced silver lead. To-day, this field produces 1,000 tons of blister copper a month. If production be not permitted after the 31st December, this mine will have to close down. The field is producing high-grade oxidized ore, which is easily smelted. This ore is taken to Mr Isa and used in the production of blister copper. Enormous reserves of ore were built up by companies which were forced out of production by the price slump. This ore is ready of access, and its treatment would provide employment for a considerable number of men. I understand that the Government is considering plans for the development and populating of Northern Australia. The development of the copper industry in the Mr Isa and Cloncurry districts would provide employment for a large number of men. To-day there are only hundreds employed where during the last war there were thousands.

As a means of stabilizing the coppermining industry in the Cloncurry and Mr Isa districts, and also to create a new avenue for the permanent and productive employment of a large number of men during the post-war reconstruction period in this northern section of Australia, where closer settlement is not only desirable but also imperative, I offer some suggestions to the Government. The price at which copper is sold on the Australian market after the war should be regulated to yield a reasonable return to the principal producers, and protect them from being eliminated by foreign competition, with resultant unemployment in the Australian copper-mining industry. The number of employees directly engaged in Australia under normal conditions is about 5,000, with many thousands more indirectly engaged in coal-mining, transport, and the production of general supplies and equipment necessary to carry on mining, milling, smelting and refining operations.

The annual production and consumption of copper in Australia just prior to the war were balanced at about 17,000 tons. With the post-war expansion of secondary industries there is every reason to expect an increased demand which can be met by the development of Australian production.

Although it may be possible to purchase imported copper at less than tne Australian cost of production, this would result in sacrificing an important local industry. The same argument would apply to a large number of other commodities vital to the development of Australian primary and secondary industries, if their present protection and preferential treatment were withdrawn. Taking sugar as one example only, it has been shown clearly, that the general development and prosperity due to the policy of protection and encouragement of this industry far outweigh in national importance any increase of cost to the consumer. Australia should be selfsufficient in products vital to its development and defence.

So that the local metal market will not be disorganized by the release of large accumulations of war stocks of various metals, I suggest that these metals be held in reserve by the Government, and released gradually to make up any deficiency in local supplies over an extended period. It has been shown in the Cloncurry district that it is very difficult to obtain capital to re-condition and re-open a mine for production after it has closed down, even when a large ore-body is known to have been developed. Owing principally to the fall of metal prices after the last war, three smelters in the Cloncurry district ceased operations in 1922, and have not been re-opened. In 1925 Mount Elliott Limited spent £128,000 on a roasting and leaching plant, which did not operate owing to the process being an infringement of a foreign patent. No further effort was made to re-open the mines beyond encouraging small parties of tributors to work the richer portions of some of them. Mount Elliott Limited has published an estimate of ore reserves in some of the mines. In addition, Mr Isa Mines Limited, which has developed in recent years a large copper ore-body at Mr Isa, estimates reserves at 2,500,000 tons of. ore carrying 3.2 per cent. copper, in addition to the adjoining large silverleadzinc ore-body. [Extension of time granted.]

Summarized, my suggestions for the development of the copper industry in the Cloncurry and Mount Isa districts are -

  1. Stabilization of the Australianprice of copper at a reasonable figure for a period of at least five years.
  2. War stocks of copper should be held by the Government and released gradually over a period of years to meet any shortage of supplies.
  3. Proved ore reserves warrant the re-opening of certain selected mines. The cost of purchasing, opening and dewatering the larger deposits is beyond the means of small parties, and I suggest that these be opened with government assistance and worked on a co-operative basis by a party with government management and supervision. All of the large deposits are held now by private companies or syndicates. The three most important areas, which also have railway communication, are -

    1. Dobbyn area - with six mines - Dobbyn, Orphan, Crusader, Mount Cuthbert, Warwick Castle and Little Wondergroup, which could be developed for regular supplies.
    2. Hampden - where Mount Elliott Limited has declared reserves of 450,000 tons of 4 per cent. sulphide copper ore developed in the Hampden Consols mine with a large tonnage of similar ore in the adjoining Hampden mine.
    3. Trekelano - which has produced a large tonnage of high grade sulphide ore averaging 11 to 12 per cent, copper over a period of 25 years, but which is closed now owing to shortage of labour.
  4. The erection of small concentrating plants to treat sulphide ore at each of these three centres, with smelting of the sulphide concentrates and crude oxidized ore at a central plant.
  5. The construction of roads suitable for economical motor transport. The more important roads required are -

    1. Direct road from Cloncurry to Mount Isa through Argyllawith branches at Ballara and Kajabbi. This would open an area of country where a large number of small lodes are known to exist, which have been worked in the past when the price of copper was high. (&) Direct road from Mount Oxide to Mount lsa.
    2. Shorter access roads to individual mines could be constructed to connect with these main roads at comparatively small cost.
  6. The provision of a water supply is necessary in most cases both for treatment purposes and domestic needs, and the location of treatment plants should be determined by the availability of suitable water supplies.
Mr HARRISON:
Wentworth

– Early this week, I discussed with the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Holloway) a request made by the man-power authorities to local governing bodies for the supply of certain information. The Minister was somewhat staggered, and asked for time to make inquiries before replying. I could not conceive of any department asking for the information for which this department has asked unless something of great moment was impending. I therefore decided to raise the matter at the proposed secret meeting of senators and members, but that will not be held for some time. I am therefore compelled to take this opportunity to make the matter public. I have received from the town clerk of Woollahra the following letter : - 1 am directed to inform you that at the last meeting of the council a communication, dated the 30th August, 1944. was received from the Deputy Director-General of Man Power (New South Wales) stating “that in order to give consideration to the existing labour problems of local governing bodies, he has constituted a committee known as the Local Government Man Power Advisory Committee in order to advise him on this aspect of the subject.

I was under the impression that with the diminution of Allied Works Council projects and munitions production, owing to the improved position of the war, there was no need for another committee on man-power, but here we have one. The letter continues -

The committee has prepared a questionnaire for completion by the various councils throughout the metropolitan area in order that it may be in a position to give consideration to any labour requisitions which may be made to the Director. The questionnaire is a comprehensive one and provides for information in regard to all activities of any council. The desired information should be supplied as far as possible on the accompanying forms, one to be used for each separate activity and returned not later than the 28th September, 1944. It is required that consideration be given also to the attached notes when completing the forms. As only one copy of each form can be provided, it may be necessary to reproduce in the councils office any further copies of the form. The informatio’n required to be supplied includes -

Although council staffs have been depleted, voluminous information has to be supplied in typewritten form. This is bureaucracy run mad. When the councils comply with the request the manpower authorities will have a more complete dossier of individuals employed by councils than even the Gestapo would think of having. The questionnaire is the most amazing of all the amazing documents I have seen. Just listen to the information the department wants -

Parks, boulevards, gardens and beaches. - Areas and other details, also details of equipment.

Street cleaning.: - Details and number of populated areas, miles of streets to be cleaned, frequency of cleaning and equipment operated, (a) Garbage removal, (&) destruction and tipping - Number of centres affected, frequency of service and quantity handled and method of disposal.

Mr ARCHIE Cameron:

– Do they ask the number of leaves on the trees ?

Mr HARRISON:

– The honorable member will be surprised at what has been asked for. Lest something should have been forgotten, an all-embracing question is asked next -

Miscellaneous. - Details of works and services not coming under specific headings.

Roads.- Details of lengths of Toads maintained subdivided into proclaimed main roads and local roads, specifying bus routes and showing in each case the respective lengths paved with (a) Cement or asphalt, concrete or similar material: (7)) tar or bitumen surface scaled; (c) gravel; (d) earth formation, and details of men and equipment engaged on the maintenance of each type of pavement on main and local roads respectively including bus routes.

Footpaths. -(a) construction, (b) maintenance. - Details of each.

Drainage. - (a) construction, (b) maintenance - Details of each.

Also the following information : -

Contractors - Details of contractors’ men and equipment and extent of work done to bo given for each question 1 to 7.

Men and equipment - Details of numbers and classification of men, vehicles, and equipment as at 1/7/1041 and as at 31/7/1944.

Transfers - Details of men, vehicles, and equipment already transferred to special defence work or Allied Works Council, including names, classifications, when returned, and (if not returned) present whereabouts and work engaged upon if knownto the council.

The man-power authorities, which already have the information in a number of dossiers, obviously submitted this request for the purpose of verification, probably in the hope that they will be able to “ get something “ on some unfortunate person. Not content with requesting that wealth of detail, the committee requires also very intimate details about the lives of individuals. This information is of a rather secret nature between the council and the employee, but now it will be included in the dossier of another public committee and be subject to check, crosscheck, and counter-check. This Gestapo organization, which is limiting and directing the activities of local governing bodies and of individuals, has requested the following particulars in regard to employees: -

  1. Name in full andprivate addressof each employee.
  2. Age.
  3. Identity card number.
  4. Marital condition.
  5. Number of dependants.
  6. Medical classification by official certificate.
  7. Capacity in which employed - general.
  8. Particular nature of duties.
  9. Number of staff in particular section as at 1/7/1941 and 31/7/1944.

This information to be furnished in respect of each section or branch of that council’s activities must be grouped separately.

The council decided to ask me to protest against its being required to furnish the voluminous information which I have read, in addition to the detailed returns that have already been supplied. In fact, the last return was furnished as recently as the 11th May last, and the information filled sixteen foolscap sheets. The staffs of local governing bodies have already been reduced to a minimum. Honorable members have only to see the condition of the streets, gardens, and parks to know that it is almost a physical impossibility to draw any more staff from the municipalities.

Mr.Russell. - Is the upkeep of parks and gardens more important than winning the war?

Mr HARRISON:

– Compliance with the request of the man-power authorities in this instance is not likely to assist in winning the war, because long ago every available man was drawn from the staffs of local governing bodies, so that even garbage cannot be removed at certain periods. The health authorities have taken action to ensure that the health of the community shall not be affected. The manpower authorities are promoting a “ paper “ war. I shall give to the honorable member some information that will stagger him. There are sources of manpower that can be drawn on without unduly fretting municipal councils with requests for information, which can be used only to bolster up a newly formed branch of a department. Any honorable member who has knowledge of the formation of a new department knows that until it gets a staff, files and stationery, it has no prestige. In the same way, until this committee recruits staff and compiles dossiers, it will not be worth a “ cracker “. Supplying this information will not make one more man available for other work. Before attempting to extract the last ounce of blood from the municipalities, the man-power authorities should look farther afield. After the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Menzies) had suggested the holding of a secret meeting of the Parliament to discuss man-power, and particularly staffs of government departments and men employed on defence projects, consternation reigned in some quarters. I believe that a certain project in Sydney was working a double shift of 55 hours with payment for overtime, but immediately the holding of a secret meeting was mooted, this was reduced to one shift of 44 hours. I should like the Minister for Air (Mr. Drakeford) to explain to me what became of the second shift. [Extension of time granted.] The Minister for Munitions (Mr. Makin) may be able to give me some information about a matter concerning his department. Recently, a request was made to the manpower authorities to provide an additional 250 hands for a certain job. After the man-power authorities had examined the work, they withdrew 300 hands from it. If this project were examined very carefully, another 300 men might possibly be withdrawn from it. Usually at this time of the year, the man-power authorities make an attempt to find hands for fruit-preserving and jam-making factories, and comb most of the retail stores and hanking institutions for young women. If the man-power authorities require additional assistance for government projects, they will probably be able to find it in the government departments and on other government works, where the keenness of the employees has slackened since the Prime Minister’s announcement that the war was moving away from Australia. It has also recently come to my knowledge that a certain contractor on the cost-plus system, who -had a staff of men working on board a ship in Sydney Harbour, charged the Government 24 hours a day for them. When the Man Power Department investigated the claim it was found that one shift of men were sleeping on board the ship, but the contractor was charging the Government the full working time of 24 hours for all of them. That shows that in almost every instance where the Government dips its fingers into an industrial enterprise some one takes advantage of it, in regard to either the number of men, the cost incurred, or even the distribution of broadcasting licences. The same sorry spectacle is to be seen right down the line. As the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Holloway) is not present, I trust that the Attorney-General (Dr. Evatt), who is at present in charge of the business of the House, has taken copious notes of my observations, and will draw his colleagues’ attention to them. Requests for information of this kind at this juncture represent simply the quintessence of foolishness and stupidity. The Minister should take the matter up with the Director-General of Man Power, to ensure that local councils shall “ not be unduly harassed by this desire to establish one more department under the aegis of the Minister for Labour and National Service.

Mr BURKE:
Perth

.- It has been brought to my notice from time to time that a very desirable National Security (Landlord and Tenant) Regulation introduced for the benefit of the dependants of men in the fighting services has been much abused in actual operation by some of the people whom it was designed to help. As the AttorneyGeneral (Dr. Evatt) knows, I have been approached on the subject by an organization in Perth, and also by a member of the Western Australian House of Assembly. I have also received the following letter from a woman resident of Maylands: -

I am writing to you now to see if you will adel your voice to the number already trying to have the act amended so that at least private owners can have their own homes even in preference to soldiers’ dependants. In our case, we were willing to share with the tenant, but the tenant refused to share with us. I became ill with worry, being forced to suffer such hardship at the place where we had managed to get a couple of rooms. Our tenant (after eleven months) decided to allow us to use one room which we had looked, and had never let to them, but we had to make a door out to the sleep-out, as she refused to allow us to enter the front door. Being so desperate we were forced to sign an agreement which refused us the use of the kitchen and the bathroom. We had managed to borrow a little electric cooker, but as it failed the first time we used it, and we have not been able to replace it, I am at present cooking over an open fireplace in my own front room and using a baby’s bath and wash-house troughs for myself, husband and two children to bathe in. Don’t you thing the soldiers’ dependants are carrying things a bit far? The husband in this case is stationed at Fremantle, and is home every night except one night a week. The tenant’s excuse is that her two young children are not well, and she wants to give them a fair chance. We have two children, and they need a fair chance, too; after all, this is their home, and we pay the rates, and have taken the responsibility of trying to get a home together, and we need some consideration. I hope that you will at least do your best to have the act amended, as it is causing great hardship to hundreds of people.

I ask that a magistrate should be allowed a discretionary power to order that the tenant shall share the house with the owner who desires to return to it, or extend to him some other reasonable consideration. The regulation should be amended to that effect. The mere knowledge that the magistrate has that power will have the effect of making the tenant adopt a reasonable attitude when an owner desires repossession of his home or portion of it. I have known the man mentioned in the letter for many years. At the beginning of the war he sought to enlist, but was rejected for medical reasons: Since then he has been working for the Allied Works Council, most of the time on the Kalgoorlie aerodrome. Work on the portion on which he was engaged has now cut out, and he has returned to the city. His wife and children went back to Perth, but were unable to find a place to spend the night, and the wife was compelled to go to her home, which had been let to a tenant. The woman in the house would not allow her to enter by the door, so she entered by the window. The tenant went out, and next morning called the police to have the owner’s wife evicted, even although the house is big and could easily ‘be shared. The owner, who is a carpenter, undertook, if allowed back into the home, to build in the verandah to make a sleep-out, and use that to lire in. I have spoken to a person associated with the appeals of soldiers’ dependants. He tells me that in many instances he is able to make arrangements with the dependants of soldiers. In cases such as this he has endeavoured at times to use a measure of coercion, which he is not entitled to do, and has tried in all ways to make some of these people see that in the present desperate housing circumstances they should make every endeavour to use the accommodation to the best advantage, and recognize that owners who return have some rights. He agreed also that the actions of some of the tenants tended to make the position of ordinary soldiers’ dependants practicably unbearable. We must ensure that the fullest possible protection shall be given to all at a time such as this, when housing is such an urgent need. Most certainly we must protect the interests of dependants of members of our fighting forces. We must also ensure that some individuals shall not be enabled by their selfish attitude to make more difficult the problem of housing people who desire to share their homes which they have let to tenants. I trust that the AttorneyGeneral will look into this matter as I understand it comes within his jurisdiction. There is a need for the exercise of discretion. I do not think that magistrates would use such discretion unfairly. Rather would they take the opportunity to bring what may be regarded as moral pressure to bear on persons to share with the owners the homes which they occupy. If the Attorney-General can frame regulations to meet this case, he will make much easier the circumstances of many unfortunate people.

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- I support the remarks of the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Burke). The case which he has brought to the notice of the House is almost identical with a case to which I drew attention in this chamber about a week ago. On that occasion I stated that, during the absence of his wife in hospital, the owner of a large weatherboard house at Cobram had let his home. Subsequently, he found that he was unable to regain possession of the dwelling, and that half of it had been sub-let to another tenant. After many months of pleading and cajoling, during which this man and his wife were assured by various solicitors that, under the existing regulations, they had no remedy at law, they were permitted eventually to occupy a sleep-out and a very small room which has no stove or internal lighting. When she wishes to enter or leave the portion of the dwelling which has been allocated to them, the wife, who is not long out of hospital, has to clamber through a window. That is the unfortunate position of these people who, after years of saving, managed to acquire sufficient capital to purchase a home of their own. I trust that the

Attorney-General (Dr. Evatt) will direct his attention to this matter as soon as possible.

Dr Evatt:

– A conference will be held during the forthcoming recess to consider these regulations. It will be attended by representatives of all interests concerned.

Mr McEWEN:

– The main matter to which I wish to direct the attention of honorable members to-night is the serious drought which is affecting the whole south-eastern area of the continent, with the exception of the coastal belt. I speak of this matter with some knowledge, as I live within the affected area, and I assure the Government that the drought conditions now prevailing are unprecedented at this time of the year. Australia has experienced several severe droughts. Probably the most outstanding of these occurred in 1902 and 1914 when great national loss was suffered, and many thousands of farmers were ruined. To-day, the recorded rainfall over the whole of the wheat area of Victoria, and, I think, the central and southern wheat belts of New South Wales and adjoining areas of South Australia, is the lowest on record for this time of the year. Recently I travelled from Albury to the South Australian border by car and it was almost impossible to find a paddock coloured green by a crop - this, in what should be one of the flush months of Spring! One can travel for hundreds of miles through this normally fertile region without seeing green grass, crops, or even haystacks, because this is the culmination of a succession of very dry years. I believe that it is not an exaggeration to say that there will be vast areas from which practically every head of live-stock will have to be removed unless horses, cattle and sheep are to be allowed to die on the properties. No matter what helping hand the Government might hold out, this” would represent tragedy in the lives of many thousands of good Australians. Certainly it would represent a tremendous national loss. I ask the Government, in view of what is not merely a local disaster, but a really national disaster of great magnitude, to consider making available a substantial sum of money for drought relief.

It may be argued that the making of grants for this purpose is the responsibility of the States. That argument would carry some weight if the drought were confined to the borders of a particular State, but there is ample precedent for action by the Commonwealth when drought is widespread. The present drought covers a very extensive area and unless some extraordinary and rapid change of weather occurs conditions can only become worse and worse. Normally, farmers in this drought area do not look forward to a break in the season until April, May, or even June of the succeeding year. It can be seen therefore that a long period of drought may have to be faced. I understand that a Premiers conference will be held in Canberra next week. I suggest that before that meeting takes place, the Government should consider the desirability of making available a substantial sum of money for drought relief, and so be in. a position to discuss with the State Premiers the possibility of employing State instrumentalities to determine who shall be entitled to relief, and who shall make the actual distribution. In addition to a straight-out grant for drought relief, the Government might reasonably take into account the higher value of wheat to-day. From a strictly business point of view, the Government would be justified in making a further distribution on account of the wheat now held in various pools which have . not been wound up. A further advance on account of such wheat would be a tremendous help to wheat-growers. Obviously, drought relief in the form of a bounty on the wheat produced this year would he of little use. A reasonable form of relief might be a grant to tide wheat-growers over this period and enable them to sow next year’s crop. Many thousands of those who are involved in this disaster are farmers who, in the past, have harvested substantial crops for which they were paid low prices, and who still have some equity in the various pools from which they hope to obtain further dividends. I shall not discuss to-day’s values of wheat, except to say that, wheat is being sold for export at a price at least three times as high as it was at the outbreak of war. In the circumstances, it is not unreasonable to ask the Government to have regard to the higher value of wheat in the various pools, and on that basis to make a further advance to wheat-growers.

A matter which is causing concern to many individuals and organizations, such as municipal councils and subbranches of the Returned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen’s Imperial League of Australia, is the acquisition of land, principally rich agricultural land, by persons of alien birth. There are in existence comprehensive regulations which, on occasions, have been reviewed by the Attorney-General - sometimes on my representations - which control the acquisition of land by aliens. Those regulations do not entirely deny to aliens the right to acquire land, and they certainly place no limit whatever, other than Treasury conditions, on the purchase of land by people who are in the category of friendly aliens. Frequently, permits to purchase land arc issued to naturalized British subjects, who were formerly nationals of nations which are now our enemies. I shall not, at this stage, argue that any country which claims to be free should deny to persons who become naturalized subjects the right to buy land, but I do contend that the persons who have a prior claim to the rich agricultural land of Australia are the men who, to-day, are in uniform, fighting for this country. In my opinion, it is an intolerable state of affairs that any man now with the forces who hopes on his return to Australia to take up land in his own district, should find, should he be lucky enough to return, that some Italian or other foreignborn person, however worthy, is the owner of the land which he hoped to acquire. The acquisition of land by aliens is going on to such a degree that I arn receiving an increasing number of protests from persons within my own electorate. Generally, the regulations which control the acquisition of land by aliens, or which prevent such acquisition, are sound, and I have not much to say on that subject. There are, however, certain localities where there already exists a substantial aggregation of persons of alien birth. In my own district, Shepparton and Myrtleford are examples.

Dr Evatt:

– What, type of alien has settled in the Shepparton district?

Mr McEWEN:

– They are mostly Italians and Albanians. Shepparton is becoming the focal point for Albanian immigrants. Of 86 Albanians who came to Australia in one year, 82 gravitated to Shepparton. That fact is evidence that these people tend to form themselves into communities. Many of them are good citizens; some of them have fought in pur Army; but nothing will convince me, or the parents of the men who are fighting, that these aliens, however worthy as citizens, should be permitted to become the owners of rich land in districts from which our own young men have gone to fight. I suggest that certain localities where aggregations of aliens exist should be declared “ closed “ areas, in which no person of alien birth, whether naturalized or unnaturalized, should be permitted to become the owner of freehold land or to acquire additional land, until the expiration of a prescribed period after the cessation of hostilities. Worthy naturalized citizens who wish to own land in Australia may seek it in the wide open spaces. I hope that the Government will heed my suggestion, and also that it will do something for the sufferers ‘from drought conditions.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Minister for Air and Minister for Civil Aviation · Maribyrnong · ALP

;. - Recently, a statement appeared in the press which indicated that members of the Royal Australian Air Force who were on loan to the Royal Air Force and were serving in the India and Burma theatres were not given proper consideration. In the Melbourne Age, of the 23rd September, under the heading “Forgotten om. Burma front - Australians with R.A.F.”, a critical article appeared.

This is apt to give a very distorted picture of the conditions under which Australian air crew personnel are serving in India and Burma, unless the full facts are given and understood. In the first place, it should be clearly stated that those members are serving on attachment with the Royal Air Force under the Empire Air

Training Scheme Agreement, in exactly the same manner as those serving in the United Kingdom, the Middle East and elsewhere. The same conditions apply also to members of the forces of the other dominions similarly attached to the Royal Air Force. The general conditions of service are laid down in an agreement between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Governments of the Dominions, and are known to all Australian air crew personnel, wherever they may be serving with the Royal Air Force.

Honorable members may recall that, in June, 1943, I made a very comprehensive statement in this House in explanation of the policy and administrative principles that had been approved for adoption in relation to the granting of commissions and promotions of Royal Australian Air Force air crew personnel. These principles have since been implicitly followed, irrespective of the location of the personnel concerned. That statement also was published in the Royal Australian Air Force official journal Wings in order to ensure that personnel serving in all theatres would be made aware of the policies governing commissions and promotions. The time promotion system for both officers and airmen applies in exactly the same way in India as in other theatres of war in which the Royal Australian Air Force is serving. The commissioning policy is the same; that is, there is no limit to the number of commissions that can . be granted to personnel on operations, and every member, if not recommended, has the right to make application for a commission. To superintend the application of this policy insofar as personnel in India and Burma are concerned, a Royal Australian Air Force liaison office has been established at New Delhi, and is directly responsible to the Air Officer Commanding, Overseas Head-quarters, London. I admit that New Delhi is a long way from London. They come under the jurisdiction of that officer, because they are serving under the Empire Air Training Scheme Agreement, and are overseas. It is known that the liaison officer and his staff in India have not spared themselves in safeguarding the rights of Australian air crew in that command. The liaison officer has frequently visited all units in which they are serving. He is aware of each member entering the command, of the member’s seniority, and the full details of his service, including the time at which he may become eligible for promotion under the time promotion schemes. I do not merely accept an assurance. When complaints have been made from time to time, steps have been taken .to have them brought under notice with a view to having the matter checked, so as to ensure that the men shall not be overlooked. The liaison officer is responsible for the transmission of recommendations for commissions or promotions to Royal Australian Air Force Overseas Head-quarters, London. It is known that he has been doing that work in a very systematic manner, and in strict accord with the approved policies. The statement has been made at times that the percentages of commissions granted are higher in Australia than overseas. My earlier statements on this matter apparently need reiteration. The percentages of personnel holding commissioned rank, in comparison with the total numbers of personnel serving in the various theatres of war, are 11 per cent, over the Royal Australian Air Force as a whole, both here and overseas, 9 per cent, of the personnel serving in the South-West Pacific Area, and 27 per cent, of the personnel serving overseas. Honorable members will agree that 27 per cent, is a high proportion. When I mentioned the matter on an earlier occasion, the number of members of the Royal Australian Air Force in Australia holding commissions was one in twelve, and in Great Britain, where the. fighting was mainly being done at, the time, it was one in five. Over all, it was one in ten. Those figures have been improved considerably by air crew members having become commissioned; now, the proportion of the men serving overseas who hold commissions is better than one in four.

Mr White:

– The reason is, that 9S per cent, of the men in England are in air crews and, under, this scheme, are entitled to commissions.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– Under the scheme, 33 per cent, is entitled to be commissioned on graduation, and additional men to subsequent promotion.

I want to remove the impression that the percentage of our men holding commissions is lower than the percentage in other air forces. It is very high. I say emphatically, after inquiry, that the percentage of commissions is higher in the Royal Australian Air Force than in any other Australian fighting service. I regret that details of the proportions holding commissions in each of the overseas areas, namely, the United Kingdom, France, Middle East, India and Burma, are not readily available; but the figures I have cited will demonstrate that a comparatively high rate obtains in relation to members of the Royal Australian Air Force serving overseas.

Australian air crew personnel in the Indian and Burma theatres are by no means forgotten or overlooked, as the press article alleged. Everything possible is being done to further their interests, and to ensure they shall be administered in accord with the general policies. Personnel in India and Burma admittedly are serving under different conditions. I assure honorable members that the basic policies concerning the granting of commissions, promotions, repatriation, and other matters are being applied.

The press article also referred to poor mail facilities and lack of comforts. Certain delays are inevitable in regard to mail and parcel services, because of the irregularity of shipping between Australia and India. The sevenpenny air-letter service established recently is now available for the transmission of letters from Australia to Australian airmen in Burma and India. These new arrangements, with the existing airgraph service which has operated for a long time, and the ordinary surface mail facilities and cablegrams, should prove most satisfactory. (No effort is being spared to ensure the implementation of the best mail arrangements possible in all the circumstances.

I stress that the Australian Comforts Fund is fulfilling a very important function, by including the Royal Australian Air Force personnel in India and Burma in its distributions of comforts.. This is in accordance with its general policy. A further very pleasing recent development is that the Australian Comforts

Fund and the New Zealand Patriotic Fund authorities have provided the Australian Society at Calcutta with the necessary finances to establish and maintain a hostel at Calcutta for Australian and New Zealand personnel on leave, that institution being regarded by the Australian High Commissioner in India as a very important amenity for the benefit of our airmen serving in that theatre. I understand that action is being taken to establish that hostel, which I feel sure will be very greatly appreciated by our men.

With regard to the publicity aspects to which the article drew attention, it is agreed that,- in the initial stages of service in India by our airmen, little publicity concerning them reached Australia. A considerable change has since taken place. This may be gauged by the fact that the press releases concerning them numbered four in April, six in May, thirteen in June, five in July, and five in August, apart from the several broadcasts, based on the work of the Royal Australian Air Force in that theatre. Several articles concerning India and Burma by authors in the force have also appeared in Wings. Several page articles, which I have read, have appeared in Wings and have been available to the men in India, proving that those men are not being overlooked or forgotten.

Honorable members will be interested to know that some time ago approval was given to three press relations personnel being sent to India. These will provide first-hand information on the work of the Royal Australian Air Force in that area for war correspondents on the spot, and will maintain a steady stream of information to Australia for submission to the press in this country. That organization will also be used as an additional medium for the dissemination of current news from Australia.

I have made full inquiries as to the circumstances associated with the reference in the latter part of the press article to the non-acceptance by the official publication, Wings, of a special article written on the Burma front by a well-known Australian journalist, who prepared it at the special request of the then editor of Wings. The journalist, on his return to Australia, offered to submit the article, hut the new editor of the magazine, not knowing of the arrangement that had been made, did not accept it for publication. I admit that an error of judgment occurred. I regret that such action was taken, and. conveyed an expression of my regret to the journalist, informing him that, if he would now furnish the article, I would arrange for its publication in Wings. There the matter stands at present.

Mr RANKIN:
Bendigo

.- I draw the attention of the Government to the very serious position of the farmers in the northern and north-eastern parts of Victoria and in the western Riverina. I support the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) in his statement that the people in those parts of the Commonwealth are confronted with colossal disaster from the agricultural point of view. I visited the area west of the Loddon River last week, and the Minister for Information (Mr. Calwell) intends to go there on Saturday week. I hope that ne will take careful note ‘ of the conditions prevailing in that area and will report on them to the Government. I regret that the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture (Mr. Scully) is not in the chamber to-night, because I believe that the granting of the necessary relief to those people is beyond the capacity of the Government of Victoria. I hope that the Commonwealth Government will recognize the tremendous loss with which this country is threatened owing to the drought conditions prevailing. Many of the settlers will be forced off their holdings. Throughout the fertile area from Ultima to ‘Charlton and through to Ouyen, not a crop will return sufficient wheat for seed purposes this year unless abnormal rains are experienced immediately. In many places the crops cannot recover under any conditions.

Unless extraordinary rains are experienced, there will not be a living beast throughout those areas by January, except where irrigation has been provided. One can travel over many square miles of country without seeing a dam with water in it. The farmers there have been encouraged by the Government to grow wheat, and a period of eighteen months is occupied in the production of a crop. I trust that the Government will take into consideration the representations of the wheat-growers’ organizations that those who fallowed land and prepared it for wheat should receive recompense on an acreage basis. Those who have been encouraged by the Government’s promise of a bushel subsidy on oats, to plant additional acreages, should also receive some recompense. If the Government does not do something to relieve them, that great fertile area will be practically deserted by the settlers who have struggled there for generations.

Dr Evatt:

– To what area does the honorable member refer?

Mr RANKIN:

– The district west of the Loddon, and west of Balranald in the. Riverina. Areas in the western Riverina which carried over 500,000 sheep are to-day carrying approximately 100,000 sheep. Many farmers who have lived there practically the whole of their lives say that there will not be 20,000 sheep left by Christmas unless exceptional rainfalls occur. These people are not in that position owing only to the fact that no fodder is growing for their stock, but also because chaff and oats are unavailable. Even in the northern areas of Victoria chaff is rationed. People who are asked to produce butter-fat can obtain a certain quantity of concentrates, but it is essential that they should get chaff. The Minister for Agriculture in Victoria, Mr. Martin, has done his utmost to meet the difficulties of the people, but when they go to town on market day, even though they have herds of 50, 60 or 70 cows, they can get only three or four bags of chaff. The production of butter-fat will be reduced tremendously owing to that fact, and the position is one that only the Commonwealth Government can relieve. It could obtain fodder from Tasmania and New Zealand. If the Government desires production to be maintained, it should deal with this serious situation immediately.

The people throughout the wheatgrowing areas have an interest in the wheat pools, and Nos. 5, 6, and 7- pools should be finalized. The Government should see th.it those people are recompensed on the basis of the present prices of wheat; not the prices at which wheat is sold for local milling purposes, for the production of breakfast foods, and for use by poultry-raisers and dairymen, but at the present world price. It is essential that that ‘be done. The settlers should be encouraged to remain on the land, so that, when the drought breaks, they will be able to supply foodstuffs for the devastated countries ‘ of Europe. In the interests of common humanity, Australia should provide that food. If the Government wishes those farmers to continue to produce as in the past, the responsibility rests upon it to take prompt action. It should be prepared to expend public money in order to keep on the land people who have fought for generations against many hardships. Those are the people on whom Australia depends in order to keep this country solvent, and enable it to take its proper place in the world.

Mr HAYLEN:
Parkes

.- I pay tribute to the new publication of the Department of Information which bears the title of Action, copies of which were made available to honorable members to-night. Reference has been made in the press recently to lack of publicity abroad regarding Australia, and this journal is highly suitable for telling the story of Australia’s action from the time when its troops were sent to the Middle East until they were fighting in New Guinea. The publication is worthy to rank with any journal of the kind that has appeared in Great Britain or the United States of America. For that reason I have taken advantage of this opportunity to draw attention to its excellence, and to suggest that it should be circulated where it could best tell the story of Australia’s part in the present war. I notice in the credit list the name of Damien Parer, who recently lost his life while taking photographs for the United ‘States of America, and also that of Harold Dick, the Sydney Daily Telegraph photographer, who was killed in an air accident in Queensland. About twenty photographers were responsible for the pictorial side of this publication, and many journalists have contributed to its success. Action covers the field of war from the infantryman to the paratrooper, and this gives me an opportunity to pay tribute to pressmen who have been referred to as the “ paragraphtroopers “ of this war. Particular mention should be made of those journalists associated with the Department of Information in the publication of Action. It is a splendid job.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- The Minister for Air (Mr. Drakeford) referred to a newspaper article in which it was stated that airmen on the India and Burma fronts had been overlooked in the matter of promotion. I have not seen the article, but I point out that the position could be helped if the Australian liaison officer at Delhi were to inform commanding officers of the promotion procedure. In the Royal Australian Air Force, it is necessary for the commanding officer to recommend a man for promotion before he is promoted. The procedure is different from that in Great Britain and other dominions where some steps are on a time basis, and many English commanding officers do not know our system. The fact that 27 per cent, of our men overseas have commissions is not extraordinary. Under the terms of the Empire air training scheme, up to 50 per cent, is permitted. Moreover, the men themselves should be informed that if they do not receive their promotion in due course they should apply for it. I have received many letters from men on the India front, and nave referred them to the liaison officer. These men have rendered very gallant service and do not complain unnecessarily. When I was in England in Flying Training Command, I circularized commanding officers informing them of the Australian procedure in regard to promotions with good effect.

Mr SHEEHY:
Boothby

.- There is a shortage of slaughtermen for abattoirs and freezing works in South Australia, and conditions have been aggravated by the prevailing drought. This has been the driest August on record for 105 years. Some men who hoped to save 100 tons of hay have not been able to save any. Last year, I was instrumental in obtaining the release of some servicemen for work in the Adelaide abattoir, but when I made a similar application this year, although it was on behalf of men classed B2, the application was turned down. It is not right that men should’ be kept in the Army serving as batmen when they are willing to take their discharge in order to work in an essential industry.

Dr Evatt:

– All the suggestions put forward by honorable members will be carefully considered and referred to the appropriate Ministers.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 1720

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determination by the Arbitrator, &c. -1944 - No. 25 - Postal Telecommunication Technicians’ Association (Australia) and Postal Electricians, Supervisors and Foremen’s Association, Postmaster-General’s Department, Commonwealth of Australia.

Australian Imperial Force Canteens Funds Act - Annual Report by the Trustees for year 1943-44.

Coal Production (War-time) Act - Order - Cognizance of disputes - Exception of certain members of Federation (dated 12th September, 1944 ) .

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1944, No. 143.

National Security Act -

National Security (General) Regulations - Order - Defence impressment (Registration of outboard motors).

National Security (Shipping Coordination) Regulations- Orders - Nos. 69, 70.

River Murray Waters Act - River Murray Commission - Report for year 1943-44.

Science and Industry Research Act - Eighteenth Annual Report of Council for year 1943-44.

House adjourned at 11.2 p.m.

page 1720

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Brisbane Repatriation Mental Hospital

Mr Francis:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

s asked the Minister for Repatriation, upon notice -

  1. In connexion with the Brisbane Repatriation Mental Hospital, proposed to be erected in the grounds of the civilian mental hospital at Goodna, will he so arrange the layout of and’ access to that hospital that it can only be approached from Wacol, thus segregating it entirely from the civilian institution?
  2. Having regard to the fact that approach to the proposed site is at least2½ to 3 miles from Goodna railway station, and, as at present arranged, can be approached only by traversing the full length of roadway through the existing civilian institution, will he open up a means of access from Wacol, which fs only half a mile from the proposed site?
Mr Frost:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Further to my interim reply of the loth September, I am now in a position to say that some time ago, the State Government decided to construct a through road from Wacol, passing the repatriation buildings and connecting with the existing main road to the hospital. The intention is to confine this route for the use of visitors to the repatriation block alighting at Wacol railway station, by providing a gate between the repatriation block and the main hospital which will prevent the road being used as a common thoroughfare. This project has been submitted by the State authorities to the Co-ordinator-General of Public Works, with a request that a survey be undertaken with a view to permission being sought to proceed with the construction of the road as soon as conditions (i.e. availability of man-power and materials) permit.
  2. See answer No. 1.

Housing

Mr Abbott:

t asked the Minister for War Organization of Industry, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that workingmen’s cottages at Granville are being built by the New South Wales Housing Commissioner under the Commonwealth’s general housing plan at a cost for a brick house of £1,150 and £850 for timber ones, inclusive of land?
  2. Is it a fact that his department has refused permits to build cottages for workmen in country areas exceeding £400?
  3. If so, why is there this differentiation against the rural worker, and is it considered that the city worker must have a dwelling superior to those in the country?
Mr Dedman:
Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research · CORIO, VICTORIA · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows: -

  1. Yes.
  2. Where urgent need’ can be established, permits are granted for houses sufficient to provide for the applicant’s reasonable requirements, and similar in size and cost to those being erected under the War Housing Programme.
  3. There is no differentiation in the treatment accorded to rural and city applicants.

Agar-Agar

Mr Barnard:

d asked the Minister in charge of Scientific and Industrial Research, upon notice -

  1. What progress has been made with the production of agar-agar from seaweed obtained in Australian waters?
  2. Has the product so far proved to be of satisfactory quality?
  3. Have sufficient sources of weed been located to make production a commercial proposition ?
Mr Dedman:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows: -

  1. Agar is being produced at the rate of 12 tons per annum and it is hoped to expand this output to SO tons per annum. There is also a small production of about 4 tons per annum in Western Australia. The Department of War Organization of Industry is examining the possibilities of expanding the production to cope with the .pre-war demand of 70 tons per annum.
  2. Yes. Agar is now being produced! which is satisfactory for food processing purposes. Satisfactory production of the bacteriological grade of agar has been achieved on a small scale. The demand for the latter is limited.
  3. Yes.

Acquisition ott Goods by Commonwealth.

Mr Archie Cameron:
ALP

n asked the Attorney-General, upon notice -

Are owners of goods acquired under section 51 of the Constitution entitled to be paid for them in full reasonably promptly after acquisition ?

Dr Evatt:
ALP

– Owners of goods acquired by the Commonwealth are entitled to compensation in accordance with the statute or regulation under which the goods were acquired and, in such cases, every effort is made to make reasonably prompt payment. In addition, the Constitution guarantees “ just terms “ to the owner and the meaning of this expression was discussed by me in a statement made in the House on the 18th March (Hansard.. Vol. 174, p. 1965), to which I refer the honorable member.

Tanking Case

Mr Archie Cameron:
ALP

n asked the Attorney-General, upon notice -

  1. Has the plaintiff in the Tonking case over apple acquisition been paid in accordance with the judgment of the court?
  2. If so, when was payment made? If not. why not?
Dr Evatt:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : - 1 and 2. Yes, on the loth September, 1944.

Service Personnel: Payments by Civil Authorities.

Sir Frederick Stewart:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Will he state (a) the total amount received by the several departments from maritime or other authorities for -work performed by members of the fighting services, showing the Navy, Army and Air Force, separately; and (6) the amount paid by the departments concerned to the service men or women who actually performed the work?

Mr Curtin:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Department of the Navy, £4,487; Department of the Army, £997,077; and Department of Air, £7.945.

    1. 6 ) Information is not available as to the total amount paid to service personnel by the departments concerned. The service personnel employed on the work received service rates of pay. In addition, such personnel are provided with rations and quarters or payment in lieu thereof, clothing, medical and dental attention, allowances for their dependants, and are allowed the usual service taxation concessions.

Fishing Industry

Mr Barnard:

d asked the Minister in charge of Scientific and Industrial Research, upon notice -

  1. Now that the first phase of the work of MV. Warreen has been completed, is it proposed to make available a reasonably full report of the result of the four years’ work of this vessel ?
  2. Can he say what has resulted from the investigations carried out in Tasmanian waters in respect of the herring and sardine type of fish?
Mr Dedman:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Yes. This work has been summarized in an article in the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research journal for November, 1943, and in the council’s recent annual report. More detailed articles on special aspects of the work have been published, and further articles covering these activities are in course of publication.
  2. Council for Scientific and Industrial Research investigations have provided information as to the occurrence and fluctuations of various species of fish, including the types specified, in Tasmanian waters. One commercial result of this survey has been the establishment of a cannery at Margate tor purposes including the canning of sprat. “Wheat Industry.
Mr Menzies:

s- asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. What have been the losses of wheat by fire, storm, tempest and flood since the Wheat Boa.vd cancelled its insurance policy, and. to what extent have premiums or other moneys been put aside to meet these losses?
  2. What has been the extent of loss by fire to stock, plant and machinery in the ownership or under the control of the Government, for which no insurance provision has been made in the ordinary commercial way?
  3. Are these losses a charge against the growers or the consumers, or will they be met out of revenue?
Mr Chifley:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The estimated losses in respect of wheat for the period from 22nd December, 1942, to 30th June, 1944, including claims which have not yet been finalized, total £158,200. These losses were abnormal, the sum of £124,500 being involved in respect of damage due to severe storms in Western Australia on five days in February, 1943. The claims on insurance companies in respect of wheat losses for the three preceding years averaged less than £17,000 per annum. The approximate premium income in respect of wheat for the same period was £96,600.
  2. The Commonwealth acts as its own insurer in respect of ordinary Commonwealth permanently owned property, such as departmental buildings, equipment, stocks, &c. No policies are issued in these cases, and losses are not specially recorded, nor are premiums charged. The actual losses on this property would, however, be negligible in relation to the annual premium value of the property calculated at ordinary commercial rates. Losses to the extent of approximately £76,850 (mostly bush-fire losses) were incurred in respect of other commodities, which like wheat, are covered by an internal Commonwealth insurance arrangement.
  3. The losses in respect of the commodities referred to in 1 and 2 are financed by premiums charged to the various controlling authorities, e.g. the Wheat Board, at ordinary premium rates based on the experience of insurance companies over a period of years. On this experience it is not anticipated that there will be any final deficiency which would have to be met from the Consolidated Revenue Fund in respect of these transactions.
Mr Archie Cameron:
ALP

n asked the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice -

  1. At what price was the last sale of wheat to the United Kingdom made?
  2. What quantity was involved?
  3. What is the latest offer by the United Kingdom for 5,000,000 bushels or more?
Mr Scully:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. For destinations west of Suez - 4s. 10.7d. A.C. for bagged wheat, 4s. 5. Id. for bulk wheat. For destinations east of Suez - os. 4.5d. A.C. for bagged wheat, 4s. 10.9d. for bulk wheat.
  2. 500,000 tons.
  3. Negotiations are now in progress, but it is not the practice to disclose details which are under discussion.
Mr Breen:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

n asked the Attorney-General, upon notice -

  1. Has the Commonwealth Government power to acquire wheat in the post-war years to fill Australia’s quota for international relief in terms of the International Wheat Agreement?
  2. Can the Commonwealth Government acquire wheat to meet Australia’s quota under the same agreement for export, thus precluding the States or an individual or groups of citizens from exporting wheat?
Dr Evatt:
ALP

– The answer to the honorable member’s questions is as follows : - 1 and 2. I have referred the matter to the legal officers of the departments concerned. The question is a complicated one and an opinion will be made available as soon as possible.

High Court

Mr Archie Cameron:
ALP

n asked the Attorney-General, upon notice -

  1. When did the High Court last meet in Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth, Hobart, Darwin and Alice Springs?
  2. Is the High Court deficient in the number of justices necessary to enable it to administer justice in all States at reasonable times?
  3. If so, does the Government propose to take remedial measures?
Dr Evatt:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The High Court last met in Brisbane this year, in Adelaide in 1942, in Western Australia in 1937, in Tasmania in 1939. As to Darwin and Alice Springs, I point out that the law makes no provision for the court sitting at any .place other than that at which a registry has been established. As a registry has not been established at either of those places, the court has not sat at either place. The recent sittings of the Full Court of the High Court at Adelaide was cancelled by the justices, but the court sat in original jurisdiction. There were five cases down for trial before the Full Court. I understand that the sittings were cancelled by a majority of the justices, partly by reason of difficulties of transport and partly by reason of the small number of cases. 2 and 3. As to the question whether the court is deficient in the number of justices, I point out that the Honorable Sir Owen Dixon has now left Washington to resume his seat on the High Court bench. However, the question whether additional justices are required is a matter of general governmental policy and will be kept in view.

Australian Abut: Research Council.

Mr Forde:
ALP

e. - On the 21st September the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) asked me for information regarding the functions of the Army Research Council and also its personnel, with rank and service in each case.

I now desire to inform lie honorable member that this directorate is a formal Army organization performing functions of a technical and advisory nature for the ‘Commander-in-Chief, who informs me that its personnel have been selected from within the Army or from reserved occupations in civil life because of special scientific and technical qualifications or experience which it is considered are appropriate for the particular duties to be undertaken. He further adds that some of the officers now attached to the directorate have carried out tasks of an operational and administrative nature in other branches or formations of the Army, and that they have been posted to their present duties in the normal manner as required of serving officers. It is indicated that many of the directorate’s activities are concerned with matters for which no other appropriate organization. exists within the Army and are still of a security nature. They correspond closely with similar functions for which analogous provision has had to be made in the United Kingdom and Allied Forces.

Australian Writers

Mr Haylen:

n asked tho Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Will he investigate allegations in a recent issue of The Journalist that local authors were “sweated”, being paid £12 for a 30,000-word novel which netted the publisher £200?
  2. As the paper to print these novels comes from the newsprint pool, and many thousands of these novels are printed at a cheap rate, will lie take steps to prevent exploitation of the Australian writer, by fixing the remuneration to the author as well as the profit to the ‘ publisher?
  3. Will he also consider the question of expired copyright, whereby these ‘publishers reprint novels on which copyright has been lost by effluxion of time, and on which no payment is made, thus depriving local writers of an opportunity to sell their material and frustrating the efforts to develop Australian writing?
  4. Will he consider the fixing of a sum to be paid by publishers for the use of books on which copyright has expired, the money to go into a trust fund for the encouragement of Australian writers?
Mr Curtin:
ALP

– The honorable member’s question involves, among other things, rights under the copyright law. Inquiries will be made into this matter. Consideration will be given as to whether the Government is m a position to take any action with regard to other phases referred to by the honorable member.

Owen Gun

Mr Rankin:

n asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that several months ago Mr. Evelyn Owen, inventor of the Owen gun, informed the’ Attorney-General that the Taxation Department had advised him. that the net amount he might expect to receive from a payment of £12,500 or thereabouts in royalties on the gun would be about £1,700, which would not meet his present liabilities?
  2. Did Mr. Owen communicate with the Federal Commissioner of Taxation in July last concerning his liability for taxation on royalty payments; if so, what was the text of the reply?
  3. Did Mr. Owen’s invention save the Government more than £2,000,000 and thousands of Australian lives?
  4. If so, why has there been such an inordinate delay in dealing with the question of taxation liability and Mr. Owen’s request that his tax claim be waived as a consideration for handing over certain patent rights?
  5. Does he consider that Mr. Owen, who has rendered such a signal service to the nation, is deserving of something better than a threat of bankruptcy because of his taxation liability?
Mr Chifley:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows; -

  1. The Commissioner of Taxation is not aware of any such advice having been given to Mr. Owen, though rt is quite probable that Mr. Owen did discuss the extent of his liability with the Taxation Department in Sydney. The tax as calculated by the Commissioner is very much less than is suggested in the question.
  2. Yes. The text . of the reply was that the royalties paid in respect of the gun were subject to taxation, that the provisions of the pay-as-you-earn taxation in relation to the transitionyear will have the effect of substantially reducing the liability, and that it was desired that he would submit copies of hia agreements with Lysaghtswith regard to the assignment of the patent rights. The Commissioner subsequently advised Mr. Owen, after examining the agreements, that his liability to tax. in respect of the royalties was not affected by the agreements.
  3. The Treasurer is not in a position to answer this question.
  4. There has been no inordinate delay in dealing with the question of the taxation liability or his request to waive the tax claimed in consideration for handing over the patent rights. Mr. Owen’s return for the year ended 30th June, 1944, was only forwarded to the department on 5th September, since when the basis of the appropriate assessment has been receiving the ‘Commissioner’s consideration. I understand that arrangements have been made by Mr. Owen’s representative to discuss the figures with the Commissioner personally.
  5. The Commissioner of Taxation has never issued any threat of bankruptcy to Mr. Owen, nor could any such threat be issued prior to the determination of the actual liability. In the meantime, all that can be said is that Mr. Owen’s representations both to the Commissioner of Taxation and to the Commonwealth Government with regard to the transfer of the patent rights will receive duc consideration.

Banking and Monetary Policy

Mr Smith:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

h asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. What amount of central bank credit has been used to finance the war since the Labour Government took office?
  2. Have treasury-bills been issued for the full amount of such credit?
  3. Are treasury-bills given to private banks as security for the compulsory deposits of surplus funds?
  4. What amounts of treasury-bills, if any, have been given as security?
  5. Is the central bank credit that has been created listed as forming part of the national debt of Australia?
  6. If it is part of the national debt, will taxation collections ‘be used to pay interest on such part of the debt, and to whom or what institution will such interest bepaid?

Mr.Chifley. - The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. . and 2. Central bank credit has been made available by the Commonwealth Bank against treasury-bills to finance the amount by which war expenditure has exceeded the available revenue and public loan raisings of the Government. The amount of treasury-bills discounted by the bank for war purposes since this Government took office and at present current is £342,780,000.
  2. No .
  3. See answer to 3.
  4. Treasury-bills form part of the national debt.
  5. The answer to this is broadly “Yes”, although, since the departments of the Commonwealth Bank and the Commonwealth Savings Bank are the principal holders of treasury-bills, part of the interest is returned to the Consolidated Revenue Fund and to this extent taxation is not needed to pay the interest. A small part of the interest is paid to other holders of treasury-bills, such as trading banks and State savings banks.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 28 September 1944, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1944/19440928_reps_17_180/>.