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House of Representatives
24 June 1943

16^th Parliament · 1^st Session

ORDER OF BUSINESS
PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE
- Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals
- Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals
QUESTION
- ALIENS SERVICE REGULATIONS
QUESTION
- BROWN-OUT RESTRICTIONS
QUESTION
- PAY-AS-YOU-GO TAXATION
QUESTION
- MANUFACTURE OF PETROL DRUMS
QUESTION
- BAKERS’ STRIKE IN PERTH
QUESTION
- DEFENCES OF SYDNEY
QUESTION
- DAIRYING INDUSTRY
ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES 1942-43
ADJOURNMENT
PAPERS
QUESTION
- ANSWERSTO QUESTIONS

Mr. Speaker (Hon. J. S.Rosevear) took the chair at 4 p.m., and read prayers.

page 313

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Mr McCALL:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Prime Minis ter indicate the probable days of sitting and the programme for next week?

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– It is imperative to have passed before the 30th June next measures that are related to provision for the departments. I propose to invite the House to sit until approximately 11 p.m. to-day, and to resume its deliberations to-morrow. I ask that as far as possible the debate be limited to matters which honorable members regard as of very great importance, in order that those measures may be submitted to the Senate in sufficient time to enable that chamber to consider them early next week. If it be not improper, I suggest that the Senate assemble on Monday. I intend to ask this House to meet on Wednesday of next week.

page 314

PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE

Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I. present the report of the Public Works Committee on the following subject : -

Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals

Ordered to be. printed.

page 314

QUESTION

ALIENS SERVICE REGULATIONS

Mr SPENDER:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Under the aliens service regulations made by a statutory rule issued on the 3rd May of this year, power was given to the Director-General of Allied Works to call up refugee aliens for service with the Civil Constructional Corps. I ask the Prime Minister whether the Director-General of Allied Works, acting on that authority, recently called up a number of aliens? Were representations subsequently made by the honorable member for Watson (Mr. Falstein) and a member of the Parliament of New South Wales for an alteration of the regulations with a view to the exemption of these refugee aliens from the call-up for civil constructional work? If so, was such action justified, in view of the fact that many businesses previously carried on by Australians who have been called up for national duty are being taken over and conducted by refugee aliens?

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

– I am aware of the order that was issued. Certain allegations were made of unfair discrimination. I am having these examined, and hope to make a further statement later on the position generally.

page 314

QUESTION

BROWN-OUT RESTRICTIONS

Mr CALWELL:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

– In view of the fact that the danger of the invasion of Australia has now passed, will the Minister for Home Security arrange for a further relaxation or even the lifting of all lighting restrictions in towns and cities at present affected thereby; alternatively, will he modify the restrictions in respect of those towns and cities ‘that are south of “the Brisbane line”?

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minister Assisting the Treasurer · WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I have told the House many times that the brown-out lighting restrictions are part and parcel of the set-up for the defence of Australia. The statement of the Prime Minister in regard to the possibility of Australia being invaded was that the danger had passed in respect of actual invasion. The circumstances were similar in Britain when the Battle for Britain was won ; but Britain was not then, nor is Australia now - as the Prime Minister has clearly indicated - free from the risk of sporadic raids from the air or by submarines. That is the reason for the imposition of the lighting restrictions. So long as the defence committee considers that these restrictions must remain in force, they will be continued.

page 314

QUESTION

PAY-AS-YOU-GO TAXATION

Mr SPOONER:
ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the Treasurer aware that, since the last sessional period terminated in April of this year, the United States of America has adopted a scheme of pay-as-you-go taxation, for application to incomes derived from the 1st July, 1943? Does the honorable gentleman also know that the view held in Australia is that there is no lag period in respectof Australian taxes, and that a pay-as-you-go plan could be more easily applied in Australia than in the United States of America? Having regard to this position, does the Government now intend to introduce such a scheme?

MrCHIFLEY. - I know, from newspaper reports and from certain official information, that a scheme of payasyougo taxation - one of quite a number proposed - has been adopted in the United States of America. I am not aware that the view held in Australia is that such a system ought to be adopted here.

Mr Spooner:

– I said that the view held is that there is no lag period.

Mr CHIFLEY:
Treasurer · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I am not aware of that, except from what the honorable member has said.

Mr Spooner:

– Has the SolicitorGeneral so advised the honorable gentleman? I understand that he has.

Mr CHIFLEY:

– The introduction of a system of pay-as-you-go taxation has not had the consideration of the Government. The matter being one of policy, I cannot express an opinion upon it in reply to a question.

page 315

QUESTION

MANUFACTURE OF PETROL DRUMS

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

– I ask the Minister for Supply and Shipping whether the Government, through his department, intends to establish in Brisbane a plant for the manufacture of petrol drums?

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The demand for 44- gallon drums has grown steadily in Australia since the outbreak of war with Japan. In an endeavour to meet the demand, the Department of Supply and Shipping has duplicated the plant at Footscray, Victoria, with the aid of lease-lend equipment from the United States of America. According to my knowledge, we are not able to meet the whole of the requirements. The Government of the United States of America has been petitioned to supply a further unit for the manufacture of these drums. For about three weeks, the department has been considering the matter of its location. Last week, I sent to Brisbane a representative of the department to examine the possibility of establishing a plant in that city. The problem now is man-power. We have consulted with the Premier of Queensland in order to find out what help he can give in that direction, and also what accommodation is available. At this stage the decision is to establish the plant in Brisbane.

page 315

QUESTION

BAKERS’ STRIKE IN PERTH

Mr NAIRN:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Has the Prime Minister received a telegram from Mr. L. L. Carter, of Perth, advising him that there is a strike in the baking trade there, and that the award of the Arbitration Court has been repudiated? Has the Govern ment taken any steps to treat the baking of bread as an essential industry under National Security Regulation No. .144, generally know as the “ work or fight “ regulation, and to compel compliance with the order of the court? If not, is the Government taking any steps to ensure that the public shall be supplied with bread ?

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

– I have received a telegram from Mr. Carter, and I am having inquiries made in order to discover the facts. It would be improper for me to act on the statement of one or other interested, or quasi-interested party in a matter of this importance. Mr. Carter is the secretary of the Employers Federation. I have the utmost respect for him, but it is necessary that I should ascertain the facts, and I am doing so.

Mr MARWICK:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP

– This has been going on for a long time.

Mr CURTIN:

– No; the men were at work until the day before yesterday. I understand that a great number of men are still working. I do not know all the facts, but I propose to get them.

page 315

QUESTION

DEFENCES OF SYDNEY

Alleged Missing Document

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been directed to statements in the Sydney press yesterday and to-day by Captain W. C. Wentworth, a former Army officer, that a document dealing with the state of Sydney’s defences disappeared from the office of the Minister for the Army late in 1941? Captain Wentworth claims that he has a letter from the Minister for the Army acknowledging the loss of this memorandum. Will the Prime Minister investigate the accuracy of that statement? If it be correct, will the right honorable gentleman institute inquiries to elicit how a valuable and confidential document could disappear from the office of the Minister for the Army? Finally, will the Prime Minister ascertain whether the memorandum had any bearing on “the Brisbane line” controversy?

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

– I have not read the statement. As I understand the matter, the allegation is that a Captain Wentworth claims that certain papers are missing from the files of the Department of the Army and that he possesses a letter from the Minister acknowledging that a certain document relating to some aspects of Army administration is missing. I shall be extraordinarily surprised if it is true.

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Captain Wentworth says that he has a letter admitting it.

Mr CURTIN:

– It is an ex parte statement. It is about time that, before accusations of this kind are made, or irresponsibly repeated-

Sir Frederick Stewart:

– By Ministers of the Crown as well as honorable members.

Mr CURTIN:

– Yes. Statements about documents missing from the departments of the Commonwealth concern not only responsible Ministers, but also the whole public administration. Officers of the Public Service must feel that their integrity is involved. As one who has been Leader of the Opposition for a number of years, and who has held a most responsible position for the last twenty months, I consider that Australia can have complete confidence in the integrity of the Public Service. When the time comes for me no longer to hold a responsible public office, among those to whom I shall express my gratitude will be the public servants who have assisted me so well.

page 316

QUESTION

DAIRYING INDUSTRY

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

– I understand that the Arbitration Court will make an award covering the dairying industry. I should like the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture to inform me whether the provisions of the award have been decided, and if so, will he communicate them to the House and announce when they will come into operation?

Mr SCULLY:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I shall give consideration to the question, and supply to the honorable member an answer at an early date.

“THE BRISBANE LINE”.

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

– by leave - The statement during the no-confidence debate about a missing paper concerns the Department of the Army and the Department of Defence. The Minister for the

Army (Mr. Forde) informs me that he is unaware of any document that is missing from the records of his department. As Minister for Defence, I can state thaI the records’ of the War Cabinet, the Advisory War Council, and the department itself are complete, and that no unauthorized person has ever had access to them. As I said previously, all the documents relating to “the Brisbane line “ were supplied to the Advisory War Council. The information given to the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Ward) is, therefore, incorrect. The Minister for the Army and I have discussed the matter with the Minister for Labour and National Service, who withdraws the statement which he made in the belief that it was made on reliable information.

Mr WARD:
Minister for Labour and National Service · East Sydney · ALP

– by leave - During my address on the Opposition’s no-confidence motion, I told the House on Tuesday night that I had been informed that an important document was missing from the official files. Last night I conferred with the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) and the Minister for the Army (Mr. Forde). In the course of the talk, I received an assurance from the Prime Minister that no document is missing from the files. I unreservedly accept that assurance, and I am satisfied that the document to which I was referring on Tuesday night is still in existence. M.y references to the document have been seized upon by the members of the Opposition as a device for disguising the real issue. The real issue is whether my charges against the former Prime Ministers arc, or are not, true. Those charges still stand.

Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Opposition

– by leave - The Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) having made, his statement on this subject, I had hoped that this unsavoury episode p.ould be closed. The Prime Minister said that he had discussed this matter with the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Ward), who withdrew the statement which he had made in the belief that it was based on reliable information. However, from the statement first made by the Minister for Labour and National Service himself, it is obvious that lie made his statement on “ the Brisbane line “ in the belief, not that it was based on reliable information, but that it would constitute advantageous propaganda for the forthcoming elections, and that it would besmirch the reputations of the members of the previous Government. The Minister for Labour and National Service said the other day, “I am most reliably informed that one important report is now missing from the official files “. That was a very grave allegation to make. It was a reflection, not -only upon members of the previous Government, not only upon members oi the present Ministry, including the Prime Minister, but also upon senior Army officers and officials associated with the “War ‘Cabinet and the Advisory War Council. Because of the seriousness of the allegation, I demanded that the Prime Minister, as head of the Government, should require the Minister for Labour and National Service to substantiate his charge with facts and evidence. The Minister for Labour and National Service has now withdrawn his statement, with obvious reluctance, because he is not able to substantiate the charge he made. The Prime Minister has stated that, as Minister for Defence, he can give an assurance that the records of the War Cabinet and the Advisory War Council, and the department itself, are complete, and that no unauthorized person has ever had access to them. I join with the Prime Minister in that expression of confidence in the officers associated with those bodies. I have no hesitation in saying that no one who has ever been associated with the officers of the Defence Department, or with those connected with the War Cabinet or with the Advisory War Council, or with war administration generally in Australia, can have any doubt as to their conscientiousness, trustworthiness and integrity. I wish also to remove any doubt that may exist, by inference or otherwise, that I was not supplied with all the information on the records when I inquired into “ the Brisbane line “ controversy, and received from the Prime Minister an index of the relevant documents, and subsequently inspected them. I am confident that I saw every document bearing upon the subject.

Now the Minister for Labour and National Service has made a most extraordinary statement, following upon the statement of his leader, the Leader of the Government of Australia. He has said that he is confident that a document does exist. He made his first statement in regard to “ the Brisbane line “ as far back as October, 1942, and he repeated that statement from time to time up to a few nights ago. When the Minister’s statement was challenged in this House, he said that he had received from somebody what he believed to be reliable information that a document was missing from the official files. The Prime Minister must recognize that it wa3 the duty of the Minister for Labour and National Service to have informed him regarding this matter before he made his statement in October last, so that the accuracy of the statement could have been checked. This whole incident must disgust honorable members and the public. It must shake the confidence of the people in the democratic form of government for which Ave are waging war. The basis of democracy is responsible, constitutional government, associated with Cabinet administration. Surely .there was a responsibility resting upon the . Minister for Labour and National Service to inform his leader, the leader of the nation, that he had received information that a document was missing from the official file so that the accuracy of the allegation might be checked. Instead of doing that, however, he asserts that he is confident that such a document exists. The matter cannot be allowed to rest there.

Mr Spender:

– I ask leave to make a statement upon the same subject.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Is leave granted?

Government Supporters. - No.

Mr Spender:

– As a former Minister for the Army, I consider that I have a right to make a statement upon this matter.

Mr Curtin:

– Will the Minister for the Army (Mr. Forde) also be entitled to make a statement upon it?

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The Chair rules that leave has been refused.

Later:

Formal Motion for Adjournment.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:
DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I have received from the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Spender) an intimation that he desires to move the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, “ Statements made by the Prime Minister and the Minister for Labour and National Service in relation to an alleged missing document “.

Mr SPENDER:
Warringah

.- I move -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr Curtin:

– The honorable gentleman expects me to expose to public inquiry all the documents connected with this matter?

Mr HOLT:

– That is not necessary. The Prime Minister is burking the issue. The Minister for Labour and National Service, without disclosing a single document, could clear up the matter by saying who the reliable informant was. If he does not, he will leave over guiltless persons a cloud which only he is in a position to remove.

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- The

– It is reported in Hansard.

Mr BLACKBURN:

– I did not hear it. On that basis, I feel that the matter has not been disposed of. I am not concerned as to whether or not there was, in fact, such a report. I believe that the Minister stated what he believed to be the truth.

Question put -

That the House do now adjourn.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. J. S.Rosevear.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 29

Majority . . 1

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Leave granted.

Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Opposition

– by leave - I give notice that to-morrow I shall move - ( 1.) That a royal commission, under the presidency of a judge of the Supreme Court of a State, be forthwith appointed to inquire into and report upon the statement of the Minister for Labour and National Service that “he was most reliably informed that an important document is missing from the official files “ in respect of the following questions: -

Who was the informant of the Minister;
Under what circumstances, upon what grounds and what information was given by such informant to the Minister; and
Whether the Minister was informed by any one in the terms in which he claims he was informed. (2.) That the report of the Commission be returnable within a fortnight.

page 326

ADDITIONAL ESTIMATES 1942-43

Message from the Governor-General reported transmitting Additional Estimates of Expenditure for the year ending the 30th June, 1943, and recommending appropriation accordingly.

Motion (by Mr. Chifley) proposed -

That the message, together with the accompanying Estimates, be referred to the Committee of Supply forthwith.

Mr McEWEN:

– I do not ask him to anticipate guilt or innocence. When a man in a responsible position has a charge levelled against him he customarily ceases to administer public funds until the charge is disposed of. The greatest and most recent expression of that traditional principle of the British parliamentary system of government is that the Prime Minister himself some 48 hours ago declared that he would not be prepared to carry on the business of government until the charge against his Ministry levelled by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Fadden) had been disposed of. He took the unprecedented step of keeping this House in session day and night for 48 hours until the question had been resolved. One of his principal Ministers is under a charge and, in the observance of the principle accepted by the Prime Minister, it is improper that, while he is under that charge, funds should be voted for him to administer. If the Government did the proper and decent thing, it would not seek any funds until the charge has been disposed of. At any rate, the honorable gentleman who is the subject of the allegations should not be allowed to take public funds into his possession until his name has been cleared. Earlier to-day I made reference to the fact that the British parliamentary system of government is based, not on a written document, but on precedent. We are faced with the breaking of precedent. In breaking precedent one establishes new precedent. If this motion be carried and the House goes into committee to consider the voting of funds to the Government, we shall establish a most revolutionary precedent, namely, that we are prepared to put into the possession of a Minister subject to the most serious allegation of being an offender or shielding an offender, the disbursal of public funds, and the control of public officials. That would do a tremendous disservice to the people and we should be charged with having no regard for the high responsibilities of office.

Mr MENZIES:
Kooyong

.- I strongly support the remarks that have fallen from the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen), and I want to express in my own words my reasons for that support. I want to do so with due regard to the ruling that you, Mr. Speaker, have given that the discussion must not anticipate the matter of which notice of motion has been given. I do not desire to discuss that matter, which is that a royal commission be appointed to investigate three specific matters. I would not understand your ruling to go beyond the very terms of the notice, and that does not exclude some further discussion of what we have been discussing already this afternoon. The honorable member for Indi has said with great force and point that the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Ward) is under a charge. He is. I desire to add that the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) himself is under a charge and the maker of that charge is his own Minister.

Opposition Members. - Hear, hear!

Mr MENZIES:

– When this “Brisbane line” controversy came into existence the first step taken ‘by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Fadden) was, through the Prime Minister, to see that all the relevant documents were placed before the Advisory War Council. We have the specific assurance of the Prime Minister that they were. That is item No. 1. Every document that relates in any way to that problem of evacuating any part of Australia was laid before the Advisory War Council by the Prime Minister. The second thing that we have on the authority of the Prime Minister is that the first document relating to the matter at issue is dated February, 1942. Then the allegation is made, I have not the slightest doubt, quite gratuitously and recklessly, that a file or document is missing. The Prime Minister has disposed of that because he said, after consultation with his own officials and colleagues, “ No document is missing “. That summarizes the statement of the Prime Minister. There never was a plan before February, 1942.

I am afraid some of us have missed a vital point of what has happened to-day.

This afternoon the Minister for Labour and National Service rose after the Prime Minister had made a specific and unambiguous statement and said - I have armed myself with a copy-

Mr Fadden:

– The right honorable gentleman is fortunate, for I did not get a copy.

Mr MENZIES:

– The right honorable gentleman must be doubly unfortunate, because I got my copy from one of his officers.

Mr Drakeford:

– Let us have a royal commission to ascertain how the right honorable gentleman was able to do that.

Mr MENZIES:

– There is no mystery about that. I got it from an existing person, not some one imaginary. In the Minister’s statement he said -

During my address on the Opposition’s censure motion, I told the House on Tuesday night that I had been informed that an important document was missing from the official files.

Last night I conferred with the right honorable the Prime Minister and with the Minister for the Army.

In the course of the talk, I received an asssurance from the Prime Minister that no document is missing from the files. I, unreservedly, accept that assurance, and I am satisfied that the document to which ,1 was referring on Tuesday night is still in existence.

In other words, he has said, “I accept the assurance that it is not missing from the files, but say that it still exists “. He went on to say -

My references to the document have been seized upon by the members of the Opposition as a device for disguising the real issue. The real issue is. whether my charges against former Prime Ministers are, or are not, true. Those charges still stand.

Very well. This remarkable document contains an astonishing charge against the Prime Minister of this country, because it says, first, “ This document that I (the Minister) am talking about, is still in existence “. Now it. cannot be said that he was talking about an unofficial document.

Mr Pollard:

– Why?

Mr MENZIES:

– Unless one is to impute utter imbecility to the Minister, it would be impossible to say that he was founding the whole charge on some document that had no official quality.

Mr SPENDER:
Warringah

.- Although the issue before the House is a simple one, it contains profound political and moral considerations. The issue is whether we shall proceed to consider the granting of Supply to the Government before the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin) announces his decision1 on the motion of which the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Fadden) gave notice this afternoon. Before proceeding to deal with that issue, I shall make a few preliminary observations. In my judgment, the political life of this country has reached the lowest ebb since the inauguration of federation. We have become accustomed to honorable members opposite levelling against the previous Government false charges of corruption, treachery, gross negligence and the abandonment of the national interests and I regret deeply that the Prime Minister, by his long silence, must accept responsibility for that. In the circumstances, the House must consider the most important issue of whether it shall proceed to grant Supply to the Government. For my part, I shall refuse to proceed further with that matter until the Government has announced its decision regarding the motion of which notice has been given by the Leader of the Opposition.

Honorable members are, to a large degree, the moulders of public opinion and public morality. If we are unable to maintain morality in this chamber what hope is there for the rest of the community? I see here a reflection of the events which occurred in France. Because political life had reached a low level, it infected the body politic of France, and the country collapsed in a national crisis. Although the present issue is within a small compass, I regard it as involving a most vital constitutional matter. I should like the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Coles) to pay particular attention to my comments, because, regardless of the criticism that may have been directed against him from this side of the House, I believe that he will support my proposition. “We should not grant Supply to the Government until it declares unequivocally that it will not tolerate the situation that has been created by the statements of the Prime Minister and the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr. Ward). I shall not prejudge the matter. It would be wrong for me or any other honorable member to attempt to do so; but the issues raise questions of fundamental and far-reaching importance. A senior Minister has declared that he had been most reliably informed-

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:

– Order! The honorable member is not observing my ruling for the conduct of this debate.

Mr SPENDER:

– I shall not transgress it, but it is impossible to divorce oneself completely from the terms of the motion forecast by the Leader of the Opposition. I shall not discuss the merits of the motion; I shall refer to the facts only for the purpose of indicating the issues that are involved in determining whether we should grant Supply to the Government before it declares its decision on the motion. The issues involved are that a responsible Minister declared that he had been most reliably informed that a secret document was missing from a file. The implication is that the document was abstracted from a file. That allegation involves the reputations of members of the Public Service, as against the reputation of a Minister of the Crown. Either the information was given to the Minister or it was not. If it were given to him, it must have been given by a person who already had access to the official files. Even then, the matter is one of far-reaching importance, because the Minister is a member neither of the War Cabinet nor of the Advisory War Council. If, in point of fact, an official who had access to the files conveyed false information to him-

Mr Frost:

– The honorable member is prejudging the issue.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is obviously debating paragraph b of the notice of motion, which reads, “ Under what circumstances and upon what grounds and what information was given by such informant to the said Minister “. The honorable member is not in order in discussing that matter at this juncture.

Mr SPENDER:

– I am not debating the merits of the proposal; but, with great respect to you, Mr. Speaker, I submit that I am entitled, in discussing whether we shall proceed to grant Supply to the Government, to point out the issues involved without further comment. I reject the suggestion that I am prejudging the matter. When moving for the adjournment of the House this afternoon, I emphasized that I would not attempt to prejudge the issue, and I have not said anything to prejudge it. The three issues which arise from the uncontradicted facts are: That an official who had the right of access to secret papers gave a false story to the Minister, or that “some one who had no right of access to the papers gave a false story to the Minister, or that the Minister was given no information at all, and told a false story to the House. I hope for the sake, at least, of the dignity of this chamber, that it will be found that wrong information was given to the Minister; but, because one of the three issues must he found to be correct, we cannot proceed to give further consideration to the Government’s request for Supply until it has announced its intentions regarding the motion foreshadowed by the Leader of the Opposition. As I stated, the implication is that the previous Government sought to cover up its political tracks by deliberately abstracting a secret document from the files. No more serious charge could be made; and that charge has been negatived by the frank and unequivocal statement of the Prime Minister. The issue which now arises is whether the charge was made with or without justification. If, unhappily, there was no justification for the charge, the occurrence more directly touches this chamber than any other incident in Australian political history. When such a charge is levelled, all the denials in the world will never convince those who are ready to believe that it was correct. Consequently, consideration of public morality, and the prestige of this Parliament demand that we shall now obtain a decision from the Government regarding the foreshadowed motion. If the Government is not prepared to appoint a royal commission, itis our duty to maintain the prestige of the Parliament by refusing to grant- Supply.

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

– The circumstances which have arisen require from me, as Prime Minister, not a short review of the events which have led to this situation, but an indication of what I regard as the duty of the Government and the obligation of the Parliament. The end of the financial year is very near, and the Constitution provides that this Parliament must vote, prior to the commencement of the new financial year, some temporary provision to carry on the services of State and, generally, His Majesty’s Administration. Therefore, the Parliament has either to vote to myself, as head of this Government, or to some other honorable member as the head of another government, the requisite provision so that the administration of the country may be carried on. Unfortunately, time is pressing-. I summoned Parliament in what would ordinarily have been sufficient time to enable honorable members to give adequate consideration to the matter of providing Supply; but other questions have interposed, and, in consequence, the Government now asks the House to constitute a Committee of Supply in order to determine whether the requisite provision shall be made. Ordinarily, this would constitute a difficulty for any government; but the country is at war, and I need not do more than say that the problems of war are so colossal and, indeed, they press so grievously that they transcend any normal domestic activities which government would provide in peace-time. I ask the House to constitute the Committee of Supply in order that the requisite provision may be made for carrying on the war, and the administration of the country. Certain other matters have been raised in such a manner as to make it extraordinarily difficult for me to refer to them at this stage. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Fadden) has given notice of his intention to submit a motion for the purpose of seeking a certain inquiry, and I have decided to adopt towards it the attitude which I believe any Prime Minister would adopt to a representative request from the Opposition on a matter affecting a Minister or the administration of a. Minister. Such an inquiry the head of the Government would immediately consent to institute. Therefore, I have already informed the Leader of the Opposition that I am ready to constitute a royal commission to inquire into certain matters. I have informed the right honorable gentleman also that I am quite ready, in accordance with practice, to consult him respecting the terms of reference to be given .to the royal commission for the purpose of conducting the inquiry. I am ready, too, as I believe any other Prime Minister would be, to consult with the right honorable gentleman on the selection of the person or persons who shall constitute the commission. As the inquiry of the royal commission will affect the position of a Minister in my Cabinet, I have adopted the normal procedure of relieving him of his administrative duties until such time as the report of the royal commission is tabled in Parliament.

Honorable Members. - Hear, hear!

Mr CURTIN:

– I believe it would be a contravention of the Standing Orders for me to proceed beyond that, as I am quite certain that I should be led into some examination of matters which I hope are now to be remitted to the royal commission as soon as the commission can be issued. I shall advise His Excellency the Governor-General to issue the commission as speedily as it can be done. There will be certain delays in connexion with the issuing of a. commission, which I ask the House to accept as being just as inevitable to me as they would be to any other Prime Minister. I have not a royal commission waiting at my elbow, and I desire to be satisfied that the Leader of the Opposition would regard any appointment proposed to be made as being above the possibility of criticism.

I have been a member of this Parliament for many years. I have sat on the left of Mr. Speaker for six years as the leader of a great party. I do not know that I should ask for any special personal indulgence and I do not do so. As Leader of the Opposition, I endeavoured to maintain the dignity and authority of Parliament. As Prime Minister, I hope that I shall strive just as manfully not only to maintain the dignity of Parliament but also to uphold its authority. At the same time, I must stress what I believe to be a duty to the Parliament, which is to provide His Majesty with the requisite Supply in order to carry on the services of State. I hope that that question can now be resolved entirely upon its merits, and I invite the House to constitute a Committee of Supply.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

In Committee of Supply:

Mr CHIFLEY:
Treasurer · Macquarie · ALP

.- I move-

That the following additional sum be granted to His Majesty to defray the charges for the year 1942-43 for the services hereunder specified, viz.: -

The financial measures to be submitted to Parliament during this session are as follows : -

Additional estimates of expenditure, 1942-43.
A supply bill to carry on essential services next financial year.
A war loan appropriation bill.
A bill to provide an additional grant to the State of Tasmania for 1942-43.
A bill to provide further assistance to the dairying industry.
A bill to provide unemployment, sickness and special benefits under the national welfare scheme.

Additional Estimates of Expenditure, 1942-43

In the financial statement which I made to the House on the 11th February last, I indicated that additional revenue would be available for war expenditure this financial year beyond the original budget estimates. The increased estimate of revenue was due partly to the taxation proposals which were brought down at the time and subsequently approved by Parliament, and partly to an improvement in collections under other heads of revenue. An appropriation of this additional revenue was deferred until later in the year.

The budget estimate of revenue was £249,000,000, excluding £28,000,000 for taxation reimbursements to the States. On the same basis the revised estimate is now £269,000,000. The main increase is due to income tax which may realize a further £9,000,000, chiefly as a result of the measures which took effect on the 1st April last. Customs and excise is estimated to bring in a net increase of £3,000,000. Customs may be short of the budget estimate by £500,000 on account of restrictions due to war conditions, but excise has been buoyant and is expected to realize £3,500,000 over the budget estimate. Notwithstanding some war-time restrictions on civil services, post office revenue will probably exceed the budget estimate by £2,500,000. Other sources of revenue in which increases are expected are: entertainments tax, £600,000; pay-roll tax, £800,000; and miscellaneous receipts, £3,300,000. The total increase, in round figures, is put down at £20,000,000.

In the additional estimates of expenditure from the revenue account which are now before the committee I am seeking an additional appropriation of £20,000,000 for war purposes.

War Expenditure, 1942-43

In February last I informed the House that the revised estimate of war expenditure for 1942-43 was £540,000,000, an increase of £100,000,000 over the original budget estimate. For the eleven months ended the 31st May, the actual expenditure was £501,000,000, and the estimate for the full year is now £560,000,000. This is £120,000,000 over the original budget estimate, viz., £30,000,000 in respect of overseas expenditure and £90,000,000 in respect of expenditure in Australia.

The budget estimate for overseas expenditure was £50,000,000. This figure was considerably below our commitments and was based solely on the amount of London funds which we expected would be available to meet those commitments. The increase of £30,000,000 is due, not to increased commitments, but to London funds reaching a sufficient level to enable us to pay for actual expenditure overseas this year, viz., £80,000,000, without calling upon the United Kingdom Government for assistance.

I am not yet in a position to give full details of the increase of expenditure in Australia, but, in the main, it has been due to additional commitments for all classes of arms and equipment for the Army, aircraft and aerodromes for the Air Force, and stores, camps and hospitals for the services generally. Additional male personnel and reinforcements and recruits for women’s auxiliary services have increased the liability for pay, and substantial unforeseen expenditure, particularly in respect of troop movements, has been involved in the mobilization of the Army in Australia on a full war footing. Increased expenditure has also been incurred for supplies and services, aerodromes, hospitals and other accommodation for Allied forces in Australia. The service Ministers will give further information at a later stage, subject, of course, to security limitations.

After taking into account the additional £20,000,000 which I have already mentioned, revenue available for war purposes will amount to £160,000,000, leaving £400,000,000 to be met from loan fund.

The following table summarizes the position : -

Price Stabilization

It is appropriate that I should make a statement here about an important aspect of government financial and economic policy which has been brought into operation since the last meeting of Parliament and for which provision is made in the additional estimates. I refer to the price stabilization scheme.

On the 12th April,the Government announced its new policy of price stabilization, involving the stabilization of the basic prices of raw materials, fuel and transport; steps to secure adequate production at reasonable prices of essential commodities like clothing, meat and vegetables; and an over-all ceiling on the prices of all goods and services at every stage of production and distribution. Under the new policy it is intended that the price level shall be stabilized round its present position, and that the practice hitherto adopted under price control of allowing prices to rise in accordance with unavoidable increases of costs shall be abandoned.

A policy of this kind is in operation in Canada and, to a modified extent, in the United Kingdom and New Zealand. Its essential feature is that unavoidable increases in costs due to war conditions will be met by means of government subsidies. Two main advantages accrue from this method of price control. In the first place, subsidieswill permit the stabilization of retail prices generally, and this will be reflected in a new stability in the

Commonwealth Statistician’s “ C “ series index which measures retail prices and by which wages are adjusted.

The second important advantage which accrues under price stabilization is that the case for paying subsidies from government funds will be considered on a wider basis than would be the case for permitting a price increase, so that there will be stronger pressure for economy and efficiency in production.

Subsidies will be paid only for essential production. Wherever possible, increased costs will be met at the basic point at which the raw material is imported into or produced in Australia. This will simplify the administrative problem by enabling the payment of subsidies to be concentrated on the small number of basic importers or producers.

Where profit margins at any stage in the process of production and distribution of a commodity are sufficiently wide, a part or the whole of the increased cost will be absorbed. This practice has been consistently adopted under price control since the outbreak of war, and it will be continued unchanged under the new system.

In some cases increases of costs may be met by permitting a rise of prices. Thus a rise could be allowed for goods sold directly or indirectly to government departments. This practice has been adopted under the Canadian system on the ground that there is no need to pay subsidies on commodities which the Government itself is purchasing.

The main feature of the administrative machinery that requires emphasis is that no business firm will be allowed to be embarrassed by delays in making investigations as to costs, profits, economies and other related matters which may ultimately determine the amount of subsidy to be granted. Importers in particular require an assurance that they may proceed with their normal business on the understanding that increases of costs will not involve them in losses when selling goods within the ceiling prices fixed. The Government is anxious that no interference should take place with the importation of essential commodities, and importers should establish their basic landed costs of imported goods at the ceiling date, 12th April, 1943, with the

Commonwealth Prices Commissioner as early as possible, and make application for relief where the landed cost exceeds the cost on a basic date. The normal administrative machinery that has been operating in the Prices Branch since the outbreak of war for reviewing the amount of relief required will continue to function, and traders will be given relief through subsidies pending the completion of any investigations that may be necessary. This will apply equally to Australian manufacturers. The Stabilization Committee has already recommended payment of subsidies in certain cases, and its recommendations have’ been confirmed by the Minister for Trade and Customs and approved by the Treasurer.

It is impossible to estimate the cost of subsidies under this scheme. The main source of rising costs in the past has been rising prices overseas and rising freight and insurance charges. There is reason te believe that, now that the worst shocks of new war situations have been absorbed iii most countries, except perhaps India, import costs should not continue rising as they have in the past three years.

Price stabilization imposes a direct check on home costs. It therefore ensures that every possible effort will be made to minimize the increasing costs associated with a total war effort. Therefore the effect on government finance of these rising costs will also, be minimized.

National Welfare

In my financial statement last February I outlined the Government’s plan for a comprehensive scheme of national welfare. Parliament has since approved the creation of a national welfare fund into which the sum of approximately £30,000,000 will be paid annually from the 1st July, 1943, and which will be used to finance the various parts of the scheme subject to the approval of Parliament. Further taxation . has already been imposed to meet this liability.

Parliament has also passed legislation providing for increased maternity allowances, funeral benefits for oldage and invalid pensioners and allowances for the wives of invalid pensioners. These benefits will take effect in July.

A bill providing for unemployment, sickness and special benefits will be brought down during the present sessional period. The bill is designed to ensure a measure of income security to bread-winners whose normal earnings are interrupted by unemployment or sickness.

Another important aspect of social security to which the Government has given attention is that of reciprocity of social benefits. Agreement as to old-age and invalid pensions has been reached with. New Zealand. Appropriate legislation to ratify the agreement will be introduced this session.

States Grants

During the year the Premier of Tasmania advised the Commonwealth Government that the amount of £575,000 which had been granted by the Commonwealth, on the recommendation of the Commonwealth Grants Commission, as financial assistance for the State of Tasmania for 1942-43, would be insufficient to meet the needs of the State, and the Tasmanian Government lodged an application for additional financial assistance.

The claim was heard by the Commonwealth Grants Commission which has now recommended an additional grant of £200,000 to Tasmania for the current financial year, subject to adjustment in a later year in order .to conform to the general policy of the commission in assessing special grants.

The Commonwealth Government has accepted the recommendation of the Grants Commission and a bill will be brought before Parliament to authorize the payment of a further grant of £200,000 to Tasmania in respect of the year 1942-43.

Assistance to the Dairying Industry.

The subsidy granted by the Commonwealth Government to the dairying industry for the year 1942-43 was at the rate of £2,000,000 a year, commencing from the 1st October, 1942, and the amount of £1,500,000 was appropriated under the Dairying Industry Assistance Act 1942. This amount has been distributed to dairy-farmers by the Commonwealth Dairy Produce Equalization Committee Limited.

This subsidy was regarded as a tentative arrangement, pending a decision by the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration as to the basic rates to be paid to the industry and a final review of costs and prices by the Prices Commissioner.

The Government has now decided to increase the subsidy for 1943-44 to £6,500,000, and also to make a corresponding increase in the payments on the production from the 1st April to the 30th June, 1943. Moreover, the subsidy will be paid to primary producers in respect of milk used for the manufacture of particular classes of condensed milk and powdered milk, in addition to butter and cheese. Hitherto the present subsidy has been payable only to producers of milk used for the manufacture of butter and cheese.

Legislation will be introduced to cover the decisions of the Government and to provide for the allocation and distribution of the subsidy.

Increased financial assistance on the scale now provided, whilst it will not solve all the dairy-farmers’ problems under war conditions, will go a long way towards placing the industry on a sound foundation.

Mr SPOONER:
Robertson

Mr Lazzarini:

– In other words, tax the people in the post-war era for the purpose of repaying to them some of the taxes that they now contribute to Consolidated Revenue!

Mr SPOONER:

– The Treasurer referred to the dairying industry. Other members of the Opposition will deal fully with that subject. My purpose in mentioning it is to point out that the honorable gentleman is only applying a palliative to those Australian industries which at present are on a non-payable basis. He has yet to apply his mind in a more constructive manner to ensuring the prosperity of the dairying industry. The Government cannot shelve this problem by granting a subsidy to this industry. It will only pile up one trouble in order to mitigate another. The time must come when this industry will have to be dealt with in a constructive manner. Subsidies in any form are only palliatives, and the industries still depend upon a constructive policy which will provide a payable basis for their products.

All that the Treasurer has said in his statement appeared in the press recently. This is a political restatement of what the Government hopes will be an appeal for the votes of the dairyfarmers. It has no real part in an appeal by the Government to this Committee of Supply for the next three months. I am not speaking on behalf of the Leader of the Opposition; he will intervene in the discussion at a later stage; but the statement which the Treasurer has given to honorable members confirms the views which have been expressed by the Opposition this week. The Government’s appeal to the Parliament at the present time has a political basis. The time has arrived when the Government must go to the country. If it does not choose to do so, the decision must be made for it. An unworkable position has been reached. Neither the Parliament nor the country has confidence in the Government. There are influences behind this Parliament which are wrangling at the present time, and there is no unity in the influences which support the Government. How can people expect unity in the ranks of the Government itself? The appearance of the Government to-night is one of disunity, disintegration and disorder.

I charge the Treasurer with being unable to provide any constructive proposals in connexion with financial and economic administration. For five months I have urged the Treasurer to consider the introduction of the scheme of payasyougo taxation in Australia. Since this Parliament last met in April, the United States of America has adopted the scheme. A few months ago, the Treasurer would do no more than sneer at the proposal. He saw no virtue in it. But to-day in Melbourne the Australasian Council of Trade Unions unanimously carried a resolution demanding the introduction into Australia of the payasyougo system.

Mr Conelan:

– Is the honorable member linking up with the trade unions ?

Mr SPOONER:

– The honorable member for Griffith is plainly surprised. Perhaps the Treasurer will now begin to believe that ‘the proposal is worthy of consideration. If, after the elections, the United Australia party government introduces the scheme, a great benefit will be conferred upon the hundreds of thousands of people who are supposed to support the Labour party. The system of pay-as-you-go taxation is of greater benefit, relatively speaking, to the workers than to other taxpayers. Perhaps honorable members opposite are not aware that a conference representing 3,000,000 trade unionists in Great Britain carried a resolution in favour of its introduction. The Commonwealth Government is twelve months behind the times. Its application ‘of a ceiling price was at least twelve months overdue.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Martens:

– Order! The honorable member has exhausted his time.

Mr BARNARD:
Bass

.-When the honorable member for Robertson (Mr. Spooner) deals with financial matters, he is always interesting, although his views are unacceptable to me. Ever since I have taken an interest in public affairs, the anti-Labour parties have been producing the inflation bogy at election time. Long ago I ceased to regard the bogy seriously. Of course, central bank credit must be wisely used, otherwise excessive spending power in the community will detrimentally affect the workers.

The honorable member accused the Labour Government of having no constructive financial policy. For many years United Australia party governments were in charge of the Commonwealth legislative machinery, but they passed no measures to relieve unemployment, or to give to the people social security. They could not provide effective means for the distribution of the huge surpluses of goods produced in Australia to the undernourished unemployed. The honorable member for Robertson was a Minister in the Tory government of New South Wales which subsequently disintegrated as a result of lethargy and the absence of constructive policy. The honorable member spoke in glowing terms of what will be done for the people in the postwar era, but the United Australia party did very little in the past for the benefit of the general community. The Labour Government has at least stabilized prices to some degree. I hope that price levels will receive continuous attention under the stabilization scheme, and that more will be done to stabilize prices than has so far been attempted. The honorable member for Robertson (Mr. Spooner), who spoke for the Opposition on this measure, was asked by the Treasurer how he would carry out the promises that he appeared to be making on behalf of the Opposition to improve things for the people at large, but his long, rambling statement did not get us very far and I do not think that his proposals will appeal to the electors.

I shall not speak at length on this measure because of the need to obtain Supply without delay, but I congratulate the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) on the references he made to the National Welfare Fund. I hope that before the House rises the welfare measures he has foreshadowed will be placed on our statutebook. Unemployment and sickness benefits are highly desirable, as the reports of the Social Security Committee indicate. The Government’s proposals are largely based on the reports of that committee.

I refer now to the need for returning to Tasmania the skilled personnel who left that State for the mainland in the early days of the war in order to engage in munitions manufacture. It was necessary for them to come to the mainland because very little munitions manufacturing work could be done in Tasmania at that time. Many of the personnel to whom I refer participated in the Commonwealth training scheme and were quickly fitted for expert work in munitions manufacture. The need for their presence on the mainland is not so great as it was, and the need for their presence in Tasmania is greater than ever before, particularly as Tasmanian industry has developed to such a degree as to need them. Many of the men own their own homes in Tasmania and owing to housing, transport and other problems, it is unsatisfactory for them to live away from their homes if they can do essential work at home. The men were promised permission to return to Tasmania when Tasmanian industry “ had developed sufficiently to absorb them. Apparently there is to be a change-over from the production of certain classes of munitions to other classes of work, so a favorable opportunity is available for returning these men to their home State in order that they may do their part in helping to develop it and lay the foundation there for the effectual carrying out of the Government’s announced intention to decentralize industry if they so desire. I regret that a great deal more has not been done in this direction, but I trust that we are reaching the stage at which decentralization, which is the policy of the present Government, may be achieved at a more rapid rate.

I wish now to refer to the necessity to establish the gasket manufacturing industry in Australia. In the past, 95 per cent, of the gaskets used in this country for automotive engines have been imported from America and Great Britain. Some gaskets are being made here to-day, though not many. Sheet copper and asbestos are the base constituents of this article. There is a tremendous need for the production of gaskets here. We should not be entirely dependent upon supplies from outside sources. Assuming that suitable asbestos and sheet copper of the correct thickness are available, the main essentials for the production of the finished article would be dies for use in the stamping-out process. Tasmania is well suited to be the home of this industry. It has one of the biggest copper mines in the world, and it also has an unexcelled hydroelectric scheme for power purposes. J, therefore, hope that the Minister for Munitions will give serious and sympathetic consideration to my proposal.

As funds are urgently needed not only for normal activities in this country but also for war purposes, I hope that the Supply Bill will have a speedy passage.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- I bring to the notice of the Treasurer (Mr. Chifley) the urgent need for a review of the financial arrangements between the Commonwealth and State Governments. The time is ripe for an immediate review of this subject for, whilst the Commonwealth Government is at its wits’ end to find the money necessary to meet war needs, most of the State governments will show a substantial surplus in their accounts for the current financial year. In these days the State governments are assured of their income tax returns by reason of the operation of the States Grants (Income Tax Reimbursement) Act, under which the Commonwealth Government collects all income tax and makes specified payments to the States. The State governments have also received substantial windfalls lately in increased railway revenue, due largely to freights paid by the Commonwealth Government on the transport of war personnel and equipment. Moreover, the States have not been able to incur even normal expenditure on developmental projects. I have made a close examination of the railway accounts of the various State governments and have abstracted the following details, which will be of interest to honorable members: -

I have given the figures to the 30th June, 1942, because that is the last complete year for which they are available. It will be seen that the States have enjoyed an increase of their railway revenue over the period mentioned by £20,054,000. The working expenses have increased in the same period from £35,000,000 to £49,000,000, showing a net increase of £6,000,000. All the indications are that the railway revenue in the current financial year will show a further increase. “When the allocation of income tax was fixed at £34,000,000, the substantial increase of railway revenue that has occurred was not foreseen, and, although provision was made in the States Grants (Income Tax Reimbursement) Act for an increase to be made in the allocations, no provision was made for a decrease. Section 6 of that act provides -

C. - (1) If the Treasurer of any State to which payments may be made under section four of this Act is of the opinion that the payments so made are insufficient to meet the revenue requirements of the State he may, by writing, so inform the Commonwealth Grants Commission constituted under the Commonwealth Grants Commission Act 1033-1035.

Upon receipt of any such information the Commonwealth Grants Commission shall inquire into and report to the Treasurer of the Commonwealth as to whether it is just that an additional amount of financial assistance should be payable to that State, for which purpose the Commission shall have all the powers it would have if the information were an application made by a State under . the Commonwealth Grants Commission Act 1033-1035.

Where the Treasurer, after considering the report, is satisfied that it is just that a greater amount of financial assistance should be payable to that State than the amount payable in accordance with section four of this Act, there shall be payable to that State such further amount of financial assistance (not exceeding the amount recommended by the Commonwealth Grants Commission) as the Treasurer thinks just.

The Commonwealth Grants Commission will investigate claims by States for increased grants and, if necessary, recommend to the Commonwealth Government that further grants be made. In view of the serious financial position of the Commonwealth, this Parliament should consider the desirability of reviewing the financial arrangements between the Commonwealth and - the States. It is hardly fair that, while the taxpayers are being taxed to the limit by the Commonwealth, some of the State governments have money to burn. If it is not possible to amend the present arrangements, the Commonwealth Government should approach the State governments with a request that they reduce the freights charged to the Commonwealth Government. All the extra railway revenue in - the States results from the war. In some States, the increased railway revenue is 25 per cent, of the allocation of the uniform tax. I, therefore, think it imperative that the Commonwealth Government should immediately reconsider the financial arrangements that exist between it and the States. While I am on this question of State governments, I suggest to the Treasurer that some effort should be made to provide for a uniform system of presentation of the public accounts of the States. It is difficult to make a comparison of State accounts owing to the varying manners in which they are presented. The Commonwealth Government is now vitally interested in this matter because of having to reimburse the States under the uniform tax legislation. It would be in the interest not only of the Commonwealth Government, but also the public generally if there were a uniform system of presenting public accounts.

I ask the Treasurer if he has yet done anything about his promise to me during the last income tax debate that the system of taxation of private companies would be reviewed. The honorable gentleman assured me that that review would be made before the end of this financial year.

Mr Chifley:

– What I said was that I hoped to be able to appoint the right honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) and the honorable member for Robertson (Mr. Spooner) as a special committee to look into that matter. I have not been able to do that yet, because the right honorable member for Yarra has only just been able to resume duty after his illness.

Mr JOLLY:

– I hope that that review will be possible soon, because private companies are unfairly treated under the taxation law.

Mr CLARK:
Darling

.- I support the motion. The statement of the treasurer (Mr. Chifley) disclosed that the affairs of this country have been efficiently managed. Undoubtedly, th6 estimate of expenditure in the budget for 1942-43 has been considerably exceeded and supplementary financial statements have been necessary in order to make provision for meeting the deficiencies; but with war upon the ‘country all demands cannot be foreseen at the start of the financial year, and provision has to be made from time to time according to circumstances. The Government has adequately used the financial machinery to meet the requirements of the country. The honorable and vain member for Robertson (Mr. Spooner) came to light again to-night with splenetic criticism of the Government’s financial policy, and was not backward in repeating proposals that he has made on other occasions for a changed system. Whatever the honorable gentleman may think, the use of national credit has proved quite sound. The figures for the previous quarter showed an increased cost of living in only one State, Queensland, where the basic wage was increased by only ls. In New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania, there has been no increase of the cost of living or of the basic wage. That in itself shows that the Government has ably used national credit in order to finance the war and, at the same time, “by the judicious use of such instruments as rationing, price control, preferences and priorities, has been able to achieve a considerable measure of stability. That stability- should be further increased now that the Government has wisely adopted the practice which has been in operation in Canada for fixing ceiling prices for all commodities. The same system has been adopted with success in other allied countries. Earlier, Canada operated only a partial scheme, but it soon found that it was better to cover all commodities. Since all commodities have been covered, the scheme has operated most satisfactorily. The United States of America adopted a partial scheme at first, fixing the prices of things that affect the cost of living of the people, such as the various items of food, but it did not fix wages or the returns to the farmers. The United States of America has found that that system is not satisfactory and is now about to adopt the Canadian system. In Great Britain, ceiling prices were imposed and a large degree of stabilization has been, reached. The subsidies paid are undoubtedly high. They amounted to £150,000,000 in 1941, and about £200,000,000 in 1942, but there are compensations in the fact that the provision of a fair return to the producers enabled them to continue to produce the needs of the country. It also produced a stable standard of living for the consumers, and in that way the system of subsidies is serving a very useful purpose. The Commonwealth Government has exercised its powers under the new scheme to fix the price of butter and cheese and other dairy produce. The substantial subsidy of £6,500,000 will be paid to the dairyfarmers. I think that that is far .beyond what they expected. It will go a long way towards stabilizing the dairying industry, and will induce the farmers to produce the needs of the country, the allied services, and Great Britain. It is most essential that the needs of the allied services and the United Kingdom should be met in this way. Figures that I saw recently disclosed that the cheese ration was reduced to 6 oz. and later to 4 oz. a week. Therefore, any additional quantities of cheese that we can send to Great Britain will be highly appreciated there.

Early this week the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture (Mr. Scully) touched upon improvements which have taken place in the production of certain commodities in Australia under the administration of this Government. “We all know the difficulties under which the dairying industry is struggling. I think that the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture was rather generous to the Opposition, and he was conservative in his estimates of future production. In 1941-42, 169,454 tons of butter was produced, compared with 147,800 tons in the first nine months of this financial year. We should produce at least 200,000 tons of butter before the year ends.

Mr McDonald:

– The last three months are not months of high production.

Mr CLARK:

– That is so, but what is produced should brine the year’s total considerably above the total in the previous year. The output of butter has been improved notwithstanding a substantial improvement of the production of cheese. In 1939-40 we produced 31,154 tons; in 1940-41, 26,7S8 tons; in 1941-42, 29,798 tons; and for the nine months ended the 31st March, 1943, 31,250 tons. That is the greatest output recorded in any such period. It exceeds the output hi the corresponding period of 1942 by 7,255 tons, or 30.4 per cent. There are other commodities that are being produced for the allied services, such as sweetened and unsweetened condensed milk, concentrated milk and powdered milk, but for the production of which the output of butter would have been even more considerable. The armed services make great demands for condensed milk and other processed milk. In the year ended the 30th June, 1940, 37,544,000 lb. of sweetened condensed milk was produced, as compared with 77,982,000 lb. in 1941-2. For the eight months to February of this year, the production was 48,000,000 lb. The production of other processed milk products in those three years has been as follows: -

It will thus be seen that dairy production has been on a reasonably sound basis. I believe that under the Government’s present policy it will be even sounder.

The payment of subsidies, in my opinion, is one of the soundest proposals that the Government has adopted. It will ensure stability to the primary producer, and a greater measure of satisfaction to the consumer. The experience abroad in regard to the stabilization of prices is similar to that of Australia. In an article on price control in World War I., a copy of which I have, it is pointed out -

Ample experience abroad has shown that even when all prices, wages, rents and profits are frozen, cost increases never can be avoided entirely. These arise partly from disturbances in traffic, rise in transportation costs, the necessity of using substitutes for cheap imported commodities like rubber, and by dozens of similar deteriorations of quality and service.

That indicates the difficulty of achieving stability. The most recent figures in relation to the cost of living index, C series, show that there has been only a slight increase of ls. a week in Queensland. Under the . present scheme there will be only slight, if any, variation.

The honorable member for Robertson (Mr. Spooner) has claimed that it is impossible to control inflation; that it will take charge of this country, and terrors will come upon the land. Facing Japan, Germany, and our other enemies, all the resources at our disposal must be employed. During the depression our people suffered great hardship and poverty; there was the paradox of poverty amid plenty. “We were told that the people must deprive themselves of commodities that they ought to have, simply because the money needed to provide them could not be found. Yet hundreds of millions of pounds can be raised for war purposes. I do not regard that as wasteful expenditure if, because of it, we can hold this country and maintain our liberties. But never again will the people, in times of peace, accept the dictum that money cannot be found with which to ensure stability, security and social and economic benefits. Certain social measures have been brought down by the Government during the last twelve months; these will add to the security of the people. Further measures are contemplated, and I hope th a,t some of them will be implemented before the conclusion of this sessional period. The people should be given social benefits while the war is being waged, in order that they may be convinced that they will have, at least, some measure of social justice at the termination of it, instead of having dangled before them promises of something better later. If our fighting men believe that when they return to civil life the Government will ensure to them economic security, and guarantee that they and their families will never again know want, they will be imbued with the idea that the country is well worth fighting for, and will do their utmost to defend it. Now is the time to implement social services. I hope, that the experience which the Government has gained in the use of the financial resources of the nation for the financing of the war will be used in equal measure in the period of peace, in order to bring to the people of this land prosperity and economic security.

Mr MARWICK:
Swan

.- From time to time in this Parliament, I have expressed alarm at the continued building up of an enormous public service bureaucracy in this country. Every week, new boards and departments are being established. Yet we are led to believe that there is an enormous shortage of labour. Most certainly there is, in the primary industries. Particularly in the farming areas of Western Australia, there is a great deal of alarm and consternation because of a new proposal for the grouping of farmers, not only for the carting of their produce, but also for the servicing of their families and their farming operations. So far as I know, the proposal is that every ten farmers, irrespective of the size of their farms, their production, or their family needs, shall be serviced by what will be known as a community carrier. Such a scheme, if insisted upon,, must break down, because of the enormous distances between farms. Generally speaking, the agricultural lands of Western Australia have not the same carrying or productive capacity as have those of some of the older and more closely settled States, but are larger and more scattered. In the greater part of the wheat-belt, there is quite a substantial acreage of reserve country which has not been brought into production. I hope that it never will be, because I am in favour of forest reserves throughout Australia. If the plan be applied on a uniform basis throughout Australia, what might be suitable for Victoria could not possibly be acceptable to Western Australia. I have not been able to learn who is responsible for the scheme. I understand that the Minister for Transport has some connexion with it, because it is to be operated in the different States by the Transport Boards. The Department of Supply and Shipping also has some connexion with it. At present, if a farmer, because of isolation or the nature of his requirements, needs to use his truck almost from daylight to dark, at certain periods of the year, perhaps in carting water to his stock, and has to replace a tube, a tyre, or a part that has been broken, he is not able to effect the replacement unless he agrees to co-operate in the proposed cartage scheme. Therefore, the Department of Supply and Shipping is holding a pistol at the head of every farmer. A man who has to service ten farmers and their families will not be able to do any work on his own property. It is suggested that men will be provided to take his place on the farm, or to drive the truck. Neither of those plans can be successful, because the men who are available to-day are not able to look after his farm as he would care for it personally. Another suggestion is that if the farmers have not a truck which is capable of doing what is required, they should secure one under the lend-lease arrangement. Who is to guarantee payment to the carrier for the work that he does, or be responsible for the payment of compensation should an accident occur and death result from it? The authorities have rushed into this matter without any organization. I have discussed it with officials in the head office in Perth, and have been informed that an endeavour was being made to secure. the services of sixteen men to help to run the scheme. I can say without fear of contradiction that a lot of the new schemes that are being launched are absorbing more men in office employment in the cities than will be released under them. If sixteen men are required for the commencement of operations in Western Australia, what must be the number in some of the other States? The brunt of the introduction of clothes rationing, and the unravelling of anomalies in the first few months of its application in Western Australia, was borne by eight or ten persons. When the scheme was running smoothly, a staff of 50 or 60 officials was built up in that State. Only the Lord knows what the number is in New South Wales and Victoria, with six or seven times the population of Western Australia. An enormous bureaucracy, much of it entirely unnecessary, is being established, whilst primary industries are absolutely starved of labour. Recruiting for the Civil Constructional Corps still goes on. We have been informed in the last few days that Australia is practically free from the possibility of invasion. If that be so, surely some hundreds of the magnificent trucks that are being used to-day in military and other occupations could be devoted to the cartage of produce to the railhead, instead of imposing further hardship and difficulty on the few persons who still remain on their farms. Only those who are engaged in rural industries know what conditions are being borne by women and children in the effort to maintain the food production of the nation. Small children of six, seven and eight years of age are working like slaves to-day in an effort to maintain food production. Those who have been engaged in these industries have warned both this Government and previous governments of what would happen if the authorities continued calling up men indiscriminately. This talk of a blanket exemption for primary industries is all rot. I could cite instances of men being called up within the last few weeks, owners of properties among them.

Mr Scully:

– Then it is against the instructions of the Government.

Mr MARWICK:

– That may be, but it is being done by these bureaucrats. I wrote recently to the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture (Mr. Scully) regarding the case of a gardener at Osborne Park.

Mr Scully:

– Yes, and I took the matter up.

Mr MARWICK:

– That is true, and I give the Minister full credit for his action. This man had 8 acres of market garden. He is an Australian, whose father was born in Italy. He is an excellent citizen, as is his father also. The father had worked in the mines until he became “ dusted “. Then he took up a piece of raw swamp and made it into a beautiful garden. The son married an Australian girl, and has two children. A security officer marked him down because of his family background, and he was called up. I ventilated the case in this House. This man last year produced 380 tons of vegetables from his garden, with the help of two workmen, one of whom had been rejected for military service, while the other was reserved. The owner was under contract to supply the military authorities with vegetables, and also to supply vegetables to a canning factory which was doing work for the Army. He is one of my constituents, and I have received testimonials to his character from many of the leading citizens of the district. The day after I raised the matter in this House, I received the following message from the Army authorities: -

Background of case is on security grounds. In event call-up, time will be allowed under supervision to recover growing crops.

I shall not disclose the man’s name, because he is now in the Army, and if his name were mentioned his case might be prejudiced. Just before the period of two months’ exemption expired, he appealed again, to the court for an extension so that he might get the remaining crop off. Five days later, I think it was, the bureaucrats took him out of his garden and put him into camp. I believe he also had to pay a fine, though I am not sure of that. He was put into uniform as quickly as possible, and then this letter was written to his solicitors by the Deputy-General of Man-power in Western Australia: -

T acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 18th inst.

I understand that the abovenamed is now a serving soldier and the question of his release is a matter for application to the Army authorities.

His appeal was to be heard on Wednesday, and on the Tuesday they took him from his garden and made -a soldier of him, despite the fact that, according to the lettergram sent to me, he had been called up in the first place for security reasons. I told the man-power authorities that if they had anything against the lad he ought to be in an internment camp, or he should be given an opportunity to clear his name, as is done in the case of any alien. However, because he is an Australian, he is not given the opportunity, although he would welcome it. As a matter of fact, his father and the other members of his family would stake everything they possessed for the opportunity to go before a court and clear their name. The local Agricultural Committee was written to, and told not to concern itself with the case because there were other considerations . behind it. To-day, this man is a soldier in uniform. He will probably volunteer for the Australian Imperial Force. He has said that if he must be a soldier, he would rather be in the Australian Imperial Force, but he believed that he was doing a more important job working fourteen hours a day, with the help of two men, producing food. He does not want to shirk his duty. Because I raised this matter in the House, the bureaucrats of whom I complain, these civil servants who have been pulled out of offices where they were working under authority, have taken this man and put him into the Army. I do not wish to say anything against the Civil Service. I have the highest respect for it, but I object to some of these under-strappers being put into high positions where the authority they enjoy goes to their heads, and makes them want to be dictators. I am determined that this lad shall get justice, that his name shall be cleared, or that he shall be placed in an internment camp. He was taken off his property and put into the Army by a piece of trickery. I make this statement deliberately, because I intend to have the matter out with these officials. They knew that he was about to have his appeal heard by a sympathetic magistrate who had previously granted exemption to him. Therefore, these bureaucrats, these dictators, some of whom could not earn a living for themselves before the war, dragged this man off his farm and put him into uniform, because the regulations say that a serving soldier cannot appeal.

We are not using war prisoners as they could be used. This is a matter which is causing the Allied Nations considerable concern, as in the North African campaign nearly 500,000 prisoners were taken. Most of them will be sent to Canada, India, and various parts of Africa. In my opinion, thousands of them should be sent to Australia in order to work on national schemes, for the development of our hinterland, such as the conservation of water, and the provision of roads, and more of the amenities of life. Unless something of that kind be done, we shall not continue to hold this country. If prisoners of war were employed to do this work a foundation for the settlement and development of much of our back country would be laid.

Some time ago I mentioned the urgent need for greater quantities of phosphates for agricultural purposes, and I am now happy to say that two of the places which

I then mentioned as likely sources of supply have proved successful. Sufficient deposits of phosphatic rock have been found in Western Australia to meet requirements for three or four years, and [ understand that similar success has attended the search for phosphatic rock in South Australia. These deposits are of good quality, and it is the duty of this Parliament, as well as those who have displayed some interest in this matter, to see that the deposits are exploited fully at the earliest opportunity. I have told the people of Western Australia that if they cannot get their supplies of superphosphate increased by 30 per cent, above last year’s quantity it will be to the disgrace of both Commonwealth and State Parliaments, and all others concerned. All that is required is some machinery - say five or six motor trucks, a bulldozer, and some scoops. On an island in a safe zone there is also 70,000 to 80,000 tons of phosphatic rock, but a small ship would be necessary to bring the rock to the mainland. The other deposits that I have mentioned are situated on the mainland in Western Australia and South Australia. Without delay we must approach whatever authorities are able to give assistance in this matter, so that we may be able to build up sufficient reserves to enable a greater quantity of phosphatic rock ‘to be allocated to persons engaged in rural industries, because we shall starve unless we can increase the supply of fertilizers. Our land is so deficient in phosphates that we must do our utmost to increase production of this fertilizer. The value of these deposits would never have been proved had it not been for myself and others who persevered for a long period and urged that something definite be done to develop them.- Seven years have passed since I first drew attention to them. I camped on the site for a week, and saw all the samples taken, because I was so anxious that the project should be brought to a successful conclusion. I ask for the assistance of every member of Parliament in order to get the necessary machinery as quickly as possible. I believe that _there is only one set of people in this country who can develop the deposits quickly: I refer to the experts who have come to Australia from Nauru and Ocean Island, and are associated with the British Phosphate Commission. The State Departments of Mines have too much on their hands at the moment in searching for and obtaining minerals necessary for war purposes, to engage in this work. Moreover, phosphatic materials are cheap, and in the past the State Mines Departments have not displayed any great enthusiasm about their development. I believe that prisoners of war could be used for the development of these deposits. Indeed, it is one of the most useful ways in which they could be employed. Phosphatic materials are necessary in order to enable us to produce the foodstuffs required for ourselves, the Americans who are in this country, and the people of Great Britain. I hope that nothing will be allowed to stand in the way of developing these deposits. Prisoners of war could also be used to convert to the standard gauge the railway from Broken Hill to Port Pirie. Ministers are aware of the conditions now existing on the “ trans-Australian railway and that the strain on the engines and rolling-stock in use there constitutes a real danger. Fortunately, the South Australian railway authorities are repairing some of the railway material. The quicker the railway from Broken Hill to Port Pirie can be converted to the standard gauge, so that New South Wales rolling-stock can be used to transport men and materials across the continent without any break of gauge, the better it will be. If prisoners of war were used for this purpose, it should be possible to do the job in a month or five weeks. That is the sort of work for which prisoner labour could be utilized. South Africa is taking full advantage of the presence in its territory of prisoners of war, and I have no doubt that Canada and India will do the same. We should endeavour to make this fair land a better place for those whom we must bring here if we are to hold Australia, and if Ave are to continue to supply foodstuffs to other countries. The people outback are experiencing many hardships. In almost every country town at least 50 per cent, of the shops are empty. That is particularly the case in Western Australia, where the proportion of empty shops is as high as 70 per cent. Those shops will never be opened again unless more of the amenities of civilization be provided in outback districts. Chief among those amenities are electric light and water. By the utilization of the services of prisoners of war for these purposes the foundations of the development of much valuable country could be laid.

I want to know why different prices for the same commodities exist in the several States, and I have prepared a series of questions on the subject. There is a different price in each State for honey, potatoes, and carrots.

Mr Scully:

– The Government has tried to get a uniform price for potatoes throughout the Commonwealth.

Mr MARWICK:

– I am glad to hear that, but I should like to know why the price of carrots was fixed at £1S a ton in Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia, at £25 in Queensland, and at £22 10s. a ton in South Australia and New South Wales.

Mr Dedman:

– Is not the price related to the cost of production?

Mr MARWICK:

– If that be so, there must be something wrong, because I know that in Queensland twice the quantity of carrots can be grown to the acre than is possible in Western Australia and South Australia. I know the analysis of the soils as well as the climatic conditions in each State. Crops in Western Australia are much lighter than they are in Tasmania. These differences do not help the nation’s war effort, because they lead to discontent. It cannot be said that the reason for the different prices for honey is that the bees work harder in New South Wales than in Western Australia.

Progress reported.

page 353

ADJOURNMENT

Business of the Session - Dissolution of Parliament - General Elections.

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1934; ALP from 1936

– I move -

That the House do now adjourn.

For the purposes of administration, it is imperative for the Parliament to pass certain bills which, as I indicated earlier this evening, are necessary for carrying on His Majesty’s services. I understand that the Senate has passed a measure, which will come to this chamber in due course, to amend the electoral law, in order to enable certain categories of soldiers to vote at the federal elections, and to provide for their enrolment. In whatever form that bill commends itself to this House, the measure, on becoming law, will impose on the Commonwealth Electoral Office a considerable amount of machinery work that will occupy some little time. Therefore, it seems to me that in any contingency that may arise, . the Parliament ought to be reasonably expected to provide not only for the services of His Majesty, which is an urgent matter now, but also the machinery to enfranchise certain categories of soldiers. I should like to add that, in my view, this Parliament has about exhausted its resources for constructive legislation. I believe that it must be palpable to everybody that when we have passed the necessary measures in relation to the carrying on of His Majesty’s services, and the protection of the revenue with regard to the validation of customs duties, the question of the capacity of this Parliament to continue to serve the country might he submitted to a higher tribunal.

Although it is not my prerogative to determine the life of the Parliament, there is certain advice which it is my privilege to give; and when the measures, which are vital to the carrying on of public administration and the conduct of the war, have been passed, I would then be disposed to give advice in accordance with the sentiments I have just expressed.

Mr FADDEN:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND · CP

– I support whole-heartedly the suggestion that has emanated from the Prime Minister (Mr. Curtin). I am sure that every honorable member must appreciate the fact that the capacity of this Parliament to marshal the full resources of Australia has been exhausted. Parliament has given ample, if distressing, evidence of its inability to work as the circumstances of to-day require. The Prime Minister’s responsibilities have been onerous, first,because his Government has not a mandate from the people, and, secondly, because the constitution of the Parliament is such that the position has been grave politically, and, consequently, the burdens of those in office have been aggravated. The Prime Minister’s responsibilities have not been lessened by the composition of his Government. I agree that the time has arrived when an appeal should be made to the people to constitute a workable Parliament that is so essential at the present time. The fact that Supply has been sought for three months is an assurance that the new Parliament will be called together within that time. Meanwhile I take it the Prime Minister, immediately, will tender certain advice to His Excellency the Governor-General in order that an appeal may be made to the people for a mandate that will render our political machinery workable.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 353

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Nationality Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1943, No. 158.

Navigation Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1943, No. 101.

page 354

QUESTION

ANSWERSTO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Wheat Industry: Appeals Against Acreage Allotments; No. 2 Pool; flour Millers’ Margins.

What is the number of appeals received in each State against the basic wheat acreage licences for farmers, and how many appeals have been received from farmers in each State against the wheat quotas for the 1942-43 season ?

The following appeals were lodged against wheat acreage allotments for 1942-43: New South Wales, 87; Victoria, 67; South Australia, 50; Queensland, 40; and Western Australia, 740. In addition, in Western Australia there were 2,960 appeals against the restriction by one-third imposed in that State.

Appeals against wheat quotas arc as follows: New South Wales, 208; Victoria, 1,100; South Australia, 476; Western Australia, 652; and Queensland, 82. Fifty per cent of these appeals are estimated as resulting from a decision to allow quotas or part quotas to wives of growers farming under certain conditions. Appeals had to be lodged in these cases to have them determined by the Appeal Committees.

Is it a fact that the balance-sheet of the No. 2 wheat pool reveals that the average realization without flour tax for bagged wheat was 3s.11½d. f.o.r. ports, and that only £1,400,000 (viz., £900,080 to the Australian Wheat Board and £500,000 for rural rehabilitation) was collected by way of flour tax?

Is it a fact that £1,933,333 should have been collected to bring the return for 32,000,000 bushels of home consumption wheat up to a home price of 5s. 2d. f.o.r. ports?

If so, will he investigate the cause of the discrepancy and take the necessary action to prevent a recurrence?

Will he arrange for the prompt release of the report of the Tariff Board, submitted to the Government some time ago, on flour millers’ margins?

Yes.

No. Flour tax credited to No. 2 pool was collected in 1039-40. Sales of wheat in this pool were spread over several years and sales prices varied. The average pool realizations do not therefore indicate a discrepancy in amounts collected.

The variations mentioned are inevitable while wheat in any pool is sold over a period differing from the tax collection period for that pool.

The report will not at present be released. Margins have been adversely affected in many mills owing to the loss of export trade. The question of rationalization of flour-milling operations has been under consideration for some time. The matter of millers’ margins will be considered in this connexion.

Boards, Trusts and Commissions

Is he yet in a position to furnish the information asked for on the 17th March last, by the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn), namely, a list of all government boards, trusts and commissions appointed by the respective governments since the inception of war, with personnel and remuneration paid?

House adjourned at 10.48 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 24 June 1943, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1943/19430624_reps_16_175/>.

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House of Representatives24 June 1943

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Mr McCALL:MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:Prime Minister · FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE

Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals

Mr JAMES:HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Newnes and Baerami Shale Oil Proposals

QUESTION

ALIENS SERVICE REGULATIONS

Mr SPENDER:WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:ALP

QUESTION

BROWN-OUT RESTRICTIONS

Mr CALWELL:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

Mr LAZZARINI:Minister Assisting the Treasurer · WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

PAY-AS-YOU-GO TAXATION

Mr SPOONER:ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr Spooner:

Mr CHIFLEY:Treasurer · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr Spooner:

Mr CHIFLEY:

QUESTION

MANUFACTURE OF PETROL DRUMS

Mr CONELAN:GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr BEASLEY:Minister for Supply and Shipping · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

BAKERS’ STRIKE IN PERTH

Mr NAIRN:PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr CURTIN:ALP

Mr MARWICK:SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP

Mr CURTIN:

QUESTION

DEFENCES OF SYDNEY

Mr MORGAN:REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:ALP

Mr MORGAN:REID, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr CURTIN:

Sir Frederick Stewart:

Mr CURTIN:

QUESTION

DAIRYING INDUSTRY

Mr FRANCIS:MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr SCULLY:Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr CURTIN:Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

Mr WARD:Minister for Labour and National Service · East Sydney · ALP

Mr FADDEN:Darling DownsLeader of the Opposition

Mr Spender:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr Spender:

Mr Curtin:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENDER:Warringah

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr SPENDER:

Mr CURTIN:Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

Sir Frederick Stewart:

Mr Holt:

Mr Fadden:

Mr CURTIN:

Mr Fadden:

Mr CURTIN:

Mr Spender:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr Archie Cameron:

Mr CURTIN:

Mr Fadden:

Mr CURTIN:

Mr Archie Cameron:

Mr Hughes:

Mr CURTIN:

Mr HOLT:Fawkner

Mr Francis:

Mr HOLT:

Mr Scully:

Mr HOLT:

Mr Curtin:

Mr HOLT:

House of Representatives
24 June 1943

Mr McCALL:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENDER:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

Mr CALWELL:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

Mr LAZZARINI:
Minister Assisting the Treasurer · WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr SPOONER:
ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CHIFLEY:
Treasurer · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr BEASLEY:
Minister for Supply and Shipping · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr NAIRN:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

Mr MARWICK:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · CP

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CURTIN:
ALP

Mr MORGAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr SCULLY:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

Mr WARD:
Minister for Labour and National Service · East Sydney · ALP

Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Opposition

Mr SPEAKER (Hon J S Rosevear:
DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENDER:
Warringah

Mr CURTIN:
Prime Minister · Fremantle · ALP

Mr HOLT:
Fawkner

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Barker · ALP

Mr SPOONER:
Robertson

Mr ABBOTT:
New England

Mr BLACKBURN:
Bourke

Mr BLACKBURN:
BOURKE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1937; IND LAB from 1941

Mr FADDEN:
Darling DownsLeader of the Opposition

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

Mr MENZIES:
Kooyong

Mr CALWELL:
Melbourne