House of Representatives
7 December 1939

15th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. House of Representatives
  2. 15th Parliament
  3. 1939

Mr. Speaker (Hon. q. j. Bell) took the chair at 10.30 a.m., and read prayers.

page 2319

AUDITOR-GENERAL’S REPORT

Defence Equipment

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to a paragraph in this morning’s ‘ Sydney newspapers containing extracts from the annual report of the Commonwealth Auditor-General, Mr. R. Abercrombie, in which it is stated -

Mr. Abercrombie states that no provision has been made for the A udi tor- General to examine records of contractors supplying defence requirements….. Thousands of pounds worth of useless dies, jigs and fittings have been manufactured foi- the Defence Department on out-of-date drawings.

If the right honorable gentleman has not seen the newspaper paragraph, will he peruse the Auditor-General’s report and make a statement to Parliament on these sensational disclosures?

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · UAP

– I have not seen the report. My colleague, the Minister for the Army, to whose department the report refers, is absent from the House because of some illness in his family, but he will be here to-morrow. In the circumstances, I ask the honorable member to give me until to-morrow to answer his question.

page 2319

QUESTION

RUSSO-FINNISH WAR

Appeal to League of NATIONS

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– In the matter of the forthcoming meeting of the League of Nations, when the unprovoked attack on.

Finland will be discussed, can the Minister for External Affairs say whether Australia will be represented and, if so, what instructions will be given to the Australian delegate?

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
Minister for External Affairs · HENTY, VICTORIA · UAP

– Australia is not at present a member of the Council of the League of Nations, but it will be represented at the meeting of the Assembly. Instructions have not been given to Australia’s delegate, but they will be sent to him.

page 2320

QUESTION

POSTAL DEPARTMENT

Brisbane Centenary Stamp

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– In company with other honorable members, I recently waited on the PostmasterGeneral to ask that a special stamp be issued in connexion with the centenary of Brisbane. Is the Minister yet in a position to say whether it is the intention of the department to issue such a stamp, and, if so, when?

Mr HARRISON:
Minister for Repatriation · WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– It is the intention of the department to issue a special stamp in connexion with the centenary of Brisbane. The Acting-Premier of Queensland has been asked for authentic dates as to the establishment of Brisbane, and requested to submit a suggested design for a special stamp. On receipt of his reply, action will be taken.

page 2320

QUESTION

MILITIA TRAINING CAMPS

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

– In the absence of the Minister for the Army, I ask the Prime Minister whether he is in a position to relieve the anxiety of members of the Militia Forces and their employers by announcing when the men will be required to go into camp for three months. The delay in making the date known is causing difficulty in organizing business over a long period. If the right honorable gentleman is unable to supply an answer now, will he see that the information is made available to the House before it rises for the Christmas recess?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I -regret very much the delay which has occurred, and I agree with the honorable member that it must cause some difficulty. A statement on the subject will be made at the earliest possible moment, probably this week.

page 2320

QUESTION

BROADCASTING STUDIO AT HOBART

Mr MAHONEY:
DENISON, TASMANIA

– I have received a communication from the secretary of the Trades Hall Council, Hobart, asking if there is any chance of the new broadcasting studio in Davey-street, on property bought by the Australian Broadcasting Commission, being constructed in the near future, and, ifnot, whether the necessary steps will be taken to clean up the rubbish on the block, which is said to constitute a menace because of the danger of fire?

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

Mr HARRISON:
UAP

– I have no knowledge of the condition of the property to which the honorable member has referred, but I shall have inquiries ‘made and see if his charges can be substantiated.

page 2320

SHIPPING SUBSIDY

Sir CHARLES MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce seen a report in to-day’s Sydney Morning . Herald of a speech made in London by the Chairman of the Peninsular and Oriental Company, in which he pointed out that foreignowned lines of steamers are making tremendous profits and-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

Sir CHARLES MARR:

– The report also stated that an appeal was made . to the British Government for assistance to British-owned vessels. In view of the opposition which, the Oversea Shipping Representatives Association has shown for years to the only truly Australianowned line of steamers-

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is out of order in making a statement under the guise of asking a question.

Sir CHARLES MARR:

– Will the Minister make representations to the British Ministry . for Shipping to have the Australian line of steamers included in any arrangements which may be made for lifting cargoes from Australia?

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Minister for Health · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I shall bring the remarks of the honorable member under the notice of the Minister for Commerce.

page 2321

SOUTH AFRICA

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
UAP

– Yesterday the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) asked if I could vouch for the accuracy of a news paragraph which appeared in the Cape Times of the 10th November, bearing upon the war policy of the Government of the Union of South Africa. I have no reason at all to doubt the accuracy of that report as to the war policy of South Africa at that time.

page 2321

NORTHERN TERRITORY

Hotel fob Darwin.

Mr BLAIN:
NORTHERN TERRITORY

– I have received the following telegram from the applicant for a hotel licence at Darwin which was recently refused: -

Despite Licensing Bench recommendation and your efforts Minister refused application. Would appreciate for general enlightenment your ascertaining and publishing source and substance contrary evidence submitted or inducement resulting his amazing decision.

I point out that when evidence was taken by the Licensing Bench in Darwin there was no attendance-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member must ask his question.

Mr BLAIN:

– In view of the fact that at the hearing at Darwin no representative of the Administration gave evidence on oath, can the Minister say why the licence was refused, and will he re-open the hearing in order that the Administration may be called upon to give evidence on oath, thereby enabling the applicant to give evidence in rebuttal?

Mr PERKINS:
Minister without portfolio administering External Territories · EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I shall submit the honorable member’s question to the Minister for the Interior, and see that a reply is furnished to him.

page 2321

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN FLAX INDUSTRY

Mr POLLARD:
BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

– What action, if any, has been taken to encourage the Australian flax-growing industry? I3 it a fact that a monopoly controls seed supplies ? If so. will the Minister take action to ensure that ample supplies of seeds of suitable varieties are made available to those who desire to sow flax this year?

Mr HOLT:
Minister without portfolio, assisting the Minister for Supply and Development · FAWKNER, VICTORIA · UAP

– The Department of Supply and Development is investigating the flax industry with a view to recommending to the Government a policy for the encouragement of flax production in Australia. If the honorable member will place his question on the notice-paper, I shall see that full details are supplied to him.

page 2321

QUESTION

MOTOR CAR ENGINES

Mr PRICE:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– In view of the pronouncement that motor engines are to be manufactured in Australia, is the Minister for Trade and Customs aware that Adelaide is favorably situated geographically for such manufacture, and that two big motor body building works are situated there? Can he say what prospects there are of Adelaide securing some of this work?

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I am aware of the facts stated by the honorable member, and I am certain that any company which contemplates the manufacture of motor chassis and engines will consider the claims of Adelaide as a site for the establishment of a manufacturing plant

page 2321

QUESTION

DENTAL SUPPLIES

Mr THORBY:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the Minister for Trade and Customs aware, that a group of dental supply companies, operating chiefly from Sydney, has now formed a close combine ? Has the Minister taken any action to ensure that dental supplies required by dentists and retail distributors throughout Australia, will be avail-, able, irrespective of the operations of this combine, which is endeavouring to control supplies?

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member must ask his question, not make a statement.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Dental goods are “ declared commodities “ under the National Security (Prices) Regulations, and are subject to price control by the Commonwealth Prices Commissioner.

Mr Thorby:

– That control applies only to prices, not to supplies.

page 2321

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Civil AIR Pilots.

Sir CHARLES MARR:

– Is the Acting Minister for Air yet in a position to answer a question which I asked recently regarding the position of air pilots taken over by the Royal Australian Air Force from Australian National Airways?

Mr HOLT:
UAP

– Yes; I have had inquiries made into the possibility of introducing a roster system, so that other pilots from the same company could relieve the men who were taken over with the Douglas aeroplanes of the Australian National Airways, but it has not been found practicable to do that, because it takes about two months to train pilots for operational work. It is probable that, within a short period, when the Lockheed Hudson machines arrive from the United States of America, these men will return to their civil occupations. In the meantime, they have been given the temporary rank of Flight-Lieutenant, giving to them a rate of pay which, while not comparing favorably with their pay as civil pilots, is higher than they would have received on the basis of their length of service with the Royal Australian Air Force. They receive a gross payment of £131s. 4d. a week, from which there are certain deductions. I understand that the pay of flying officers is £11 a week.

page 2322

QUESTION

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Christmas Payment

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA

– I have received a communication from Tasmania asking that a special payment of pensions be made prior to Christmas, and I now ask the Acting Treasurer whether any arrangements have been made to make a special payment to pensioners to assist them over the Christmas period ?

Mr SPENDER:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I will give consideration to the matter.

page 2322

QUESTION

MILITARY HANDBOOK

Mr WHITE:

– In the absence of the Minister for the Army, will the Prime Minister, as Minister for Defence Coordination, state whether he has seen a military handbook published by Mr. W. A. S.Dunlop, called The Fighting Soldier? If so, or in any case, will he, in view of the scarcity and limited list of military handbooks, see that this book is brought under the notice of the Military Board with a view to listing it for issue at least to officers and non-commissioned officers of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I have not seen the handbook, but Ishall direct the attention of the Military Board to the matter.

page 2322

QUESTION

TRAINING OF PILOTS

Mr DRAKEFORD:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Is it intended to take over the aero clubs and their plant, premises and machines for the purpose of training pilots for military purposes? If this is to be done, is it intended to utilize club members for training purposes, and to compensate the clubs for the use of their premises, plant and machines?

Mr HOLT:
UAP

– Certain arrangements have been made with the principal clubs and civil flying training establishments to supplement the elementary training facilities available in the Royal Australian Air Force. Certain of the clubs have been selected as contractors, and will train pilots for the Royal Air Force to the elementary stage. It is not intended to take over their plant and equipment, but merely to remunerate them for their services.

page 2322

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH AIRCRAFT CORPORATION

Mr PRICE:

– Will the Acting Minister for Supply and Development state how much money the Commonwealth Government has invested in the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation? Has production been held up,or is it going on as satisfactorily as was anticipated?

Sir FREDERICK STEWART.Coasiderable investigation would be needed to answer some parts of the honorable member’s question. I may say, however, that the Commonwealth Government has no money invested in the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation. Production has now been stepped up to quite a satisfactory degree. I shall have inquiries made ‘ regarding the other part of the honorable member’s question, and furnish him with a reply later.

page 2322

NEWS CENSORSHIP

Mr CLARK:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Information state whether his department prevented the publication in the newspapers of the reference in this Parliament yesterday to the decision of the Government of South Africa not to send troops abroad.

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
UAP

– Not to my knowledge, but I shall make inquiries.

page 2323

QUESTION

ALICE SPRINGS AERODROME

Mr BLAIN:

– Will the Acting Minister for Air give consideration to the need for constructing an all-weather- road for a distance of seven miles between Alice Springs and the aerodrome?

Mr HOLT:
UAP

– I shall give consideration to the honorable member’s request.

page 2323

QUESTION

CONSIDERATION OF ESTIMATES

Mr CURTIN:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– There is an item on the notice-paper, “ Further consideration in committee - Financial Statement “. Will the Prime Minister say whether that means that the Estimates of expenditure as previously tabled in this House are to be considered, or does it refer to the financial statement made by the Assistant Treasurer last week, or is it intended, under that heading, to bring in a bill to grant Supply for a period of time?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– We hope, under that heading, to have the Estimates considered and decided.

page 2323

QUESTION

DEFENCE FACTORY IN BRISBANE

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

– Three weeks ago, I asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior whether it waa true that the Commonwealth Government still owned a factory building in one of the suburbs of Brisbane, and whether it was proposed to make any use of it? I have not yet received a reply.

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
UAP

– I referred the honorable member’s question to the Minister for the Interior, and I am surprised that he has not been answered. I shall have inquiries made.

page 2323

QUESTION

WIRRAWAY AEROPLANES

Mr ANTHONY:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Acting Minister for Air any information concerning the performance of Wirraway aeroplanes turned out by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation? Is it a fact that an important part became detached from one of the ‘planes just before it took the air? Will he inquire whether it is not a matter of great, concern to officers and men of the Air Force that there are dangers attendant upon taking these machines into the air?

Mr HOLT:
UAP

– All of the evidence in my possession is to the effect that the Wirraway ‘planes are giving every satisfaction as general purposes machines. I shall bring the honorable member’s question under the notice of the appropriate authorities, and ask for information on the point.

Mr ROSEVEAR:
DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– When he is making investigations into the alleged defects of Wirraway aeroplanes, will the Acting Minister for Air also try to find to what extent the reports are due to the propaganda of overseas manufacturers of aircraft? Will he have a statement prepared comparing the weaknesses and defects discovered in imported ‘planes with those found in Australian-made ‘planes?

Mr HOLT:

– I shall give consideration to the first part of the honorable member’s question. As to the second part, 1. shall inquire whether it is practicable to comply with his request.

page 2323

QUESTION

WIRRAWAY AIRCRAFT

Mr ANTHONY:

– I ask the Acting Minister for Air whether, when the investigations are being made into my complaints concerning the Wirraway planes, he will take steps to see that not only senior officers of the Air Force are interviewed, but also cadets and other officers responsible for the taking of these machines into the air?

Mr HOLT:
UAP

– I shall give consideration to the suggestion. If the honorable member can direct my attention to particular instances of alleged defects, it will be a help.

page 2323

QUESTION

GOLD TAX

Mr GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Has the Acting Treasurer seen a paragraph in the Melbourne Herald of the 5th December, and in the Sydney Morning Herald of to-day’s date, stating that Wiluna Gold Corporation Limited has an estimated life of two and a half years, that the loss of £12,141 was incurred for the year ended 31st March last, and that the production for the September quarter was 22,650 ounces, on which the Gold Tax Act would, if enforced, exact a tax of £36,806?

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order ! The honorable member is giving information.

Mr GREEN:

– I ask the Assistant Treasurer, therefore, whether he Wl make some exception in favour of this company, so that a show that is losing - £12,000 a year will not be required to pay £36,806 in tax to the Treasury in its declining years?

Mr SPENDER:

– The answer to both parts of the honorable member’s question is “No”.

Mr Green:

– If the show were in New South Wales, and the Minister’s seat were at stake, he would take a different view.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

page 2324

QUESTION

DARWIN TOWN PLANNING

Mr BLAIN:

– Has the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior seen the following report in the Sydney Morning Herald of to-day’s date: -

Residential Areas - City’s Need - Legal Difficulties

A special meeting of the City Council is to be held at the request of the council’s Planning and Improvement Committee to consider a comprehensive scheme for the declaration of residential areas within the city.

The chairman of the committee, Alderman Crick, said at a meeting of the committee yesterday that it was useless for them to consider the advisability of declaring certain small areas residential.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order ! I am sorry that the Chair must call the honorable member to order almost every time he asks a question. If he will not obey the rules there is nothing for me to do but disallow the question.

Mr BLAIN:

– In view of the interest taken in this most important matter by the City Council in Sydney-

Mr SPEAKER:

-The honorable mem-‘ ber should not give reasons when asking questions.

Mr BLAIN:

– Will the Minister ascertain from the Administrator in Darwin if the Brisbane City Planner has been asked to draw up plans for the development of Darwin? If not, will he find out why?

Mr PERKINS:
UAP

– I shall endeavour to obtain the information.

page 2324

QUESTION

DESPATCH OF FORCES OVERSEAS

Mr FORDE:

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been drawn to a statement published in the Manchester Guardian that Australia should not drain itself of man-power, and that Australian exports to Britain are almost as important as man-power?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– No, I have not.

page 2324

QUESTION

MORTGAGE BANK

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA

– Will the Prime Minister state whether it is still the policy of the Government to establish a land mortgage branch of the Commonwealth Bank? If so, will he state when the Government proposes to bring in the necessary legislation?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– That is still the policy of the Government, and legislation will be brought in as soon as possible.

page 2324

QUESTION

ARMY DENTAL TREATMENT

Mr THORBY:

– Can the Prime Minister state whether it is correct that the Department of the Army has arranged for dental work among the troops to be carried out in the various military camps ? If so, will he state whether the necessary equipment and organization are available? Will the Government consider using the existing dental services, and sending the troops to where those services exist, thus reducing costs and facilitating the work?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I cannot give the honorable member the information he seeks, but I shall see that his suggestions are brought under the notice-of the proper authorities.

page 2324

QUESTION

MILITARY PAY

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the Acting Treasurer aware that many complaints have been made by the wives of men in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force Camp at Ingleburn that they have to travel from the little village in which they live near Newcastle to the Newcastle Post Office in order to collect their allowances? Seeing that old-age, invalid and war pensions are payable at the small allowance post offices, will the Minister make arrangements for the wives of men rathe 2nd Australian Imperial Force camps to be paid similarly?

Mr SPENDER:

– I shall make inquiries into the matter and discuss it with the Minister for the Army to see what can be done.

page 2325

QUESTION

BONUS TO MILITIAMEN

Mr MAHONEY:

– Is the Prime

Minister aware that the Defence authorities grant a bonus of £4 a year to men who render efficient services in the Militia for three years? Is he also aware that certain militiamen who joined the 2nd Australian Imperial Force within four weeks of the completion of their three years of training have been informed that they will not be entitled to the bonus because they have not served in the Militia for three years?Will the right honorable gentleman arrange that men who transfer from the Militia to the 2nd Australian Imperial Force shall be regarded as having had continuous service ?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I shall consider the subject. If the honorable member will let me have, privately, some particulars of any individual cases, I shall be glad to look into them.

Mr Mahoney:

– I should do so if I could see the right honorable gentleman.

Mr MENZIES:

– I shallbe happy to see the honorable member during to-day or, at the latest, before five o’clock to-morrow.

page 2325

QUESTION

SALES TAX ON FIRST-AID MATERIAL

Mr JAMES:

– Eight or nine days ago I asked the Acting Treasurer a question concerning the remission of sales tax on first-aid requisites used in denominational schools. Is he yet able to answer my question ?

Mr SPENDER:

– The honorable member should receive a reply to-day to the effect that favorable consideration has been given to his request.

page 2325

POSTAL RATES (DEFENCE FORCES) BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. Harrison) agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to provide for special rates of postage for mail matter addressed to or posted by members of the Naval, Military and Air Forces of the Commonwealth.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Motion (by Mr. Harrison) proposed -

That the second reading of the bill be made an order of the day for a later hour this day.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).The point of order of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) is upheld. The Postmaster-General must seek the leave of the House in the ordinary way.

Motion (by Mr. Harrison) agreed to-

That the second reading be made an order of the day for the next sitting.

page 2325

AIR FORCE BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. Holt) agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend the Air Force Act 1923 and for other purposes.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Mr HOLT:
Assistant Minister · Fawkner · UAP

– by leave - I move -

That the second reading be made an order of the day for a later hour this day.

In view of the remarks made a few moments ago by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) I suggest to him that it might meet his convenience, and the convenience of other honorable members, if my second-reading speech could be made at a later hour this day and the debate thereupon adjourned until to-morrow. That would give honorable members an opportunity to appreciate the contents of the bill, and to study its provisions.

Mr Curtin:

– I am agreeable to that course. I understood that we were to give the whole of to-day to the Revised Estimates, and I do not desire to be forced into consenting to an all-night sitting which may be necessary if the second-reading debates on all these measures are to be continued to-day.

Mr HOLT:

– I am sure that the business of the House will be facilitated if the course I have suggested be adopted. After my speech, the debate will be adjourned until to-morrow.

Mr Curtin:

– I should have been willing to adopt this procedure in regard to the bill introduced by the PostmasterGeneral had I been asked to do so.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2326

SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT BILL (No. 3) 1939

Motion (by Sir Frederick Stewart) agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend section fifteen of the Supply and Development Act 1939 as amended by the Supply and Development Act (No. 2) 1939.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Acting Minister for Supply and Development · Parramatta · UAP

– by leave - I move -

That the second reading be made an order of the day for a later hour this day.

The bill is of a non-contentious nature. .

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2326

SUPERANNUATION BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. Spender) agreed to.

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend the Superannuation Act 1922- 1937.

page 2326

COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC SERVICE BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. Perkins for Mr. Menzies) agreed to.

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend sections fifty and seventytwo of the Commonwealth Public Service Act 1922-1937.

Bill brought up by Mr. Perkins, and read a first time.

Motion (by Mr. Perkins) - by leave - agreed to -

That the second reading be made an order of the day for a later hour this day.

page 2326

DEFENCE BILL (No. 3) 1939

Motion (by Mr. Holt) agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend section thirty-one of the Defence Act 1903-1934 as amended by the Defence Act 1939 and the Defence Act (No. 2) 1939.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Motion (by Mr. Holt) - by leave - agreed to -

That the second reading be made an order of the day for a later hour this day.

page 2326

FINANCIAL STATEMENT 1939-40

In Committee of Supply: Consideration resumed from the 30th November (vide page 1857), on motion by Mr. Spender. -

That the first item in the Estimates under Division 1 - the Senate - namely, “ Salaries and allowances, £8,040”, be agreed to.

Mr SPENDER:
Acting Treasurer · Warringah

– I move -

That the consideration of the General Estimates be postponed until after the consideration of Estimates for Additions, New Works, Buildings, &c.

The purpose of this motion is to enable the Works Estimates to be placed before the Senate as quickly as possible.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– It has been very difficult to follow the course of business this morning, or even to hear what is being said by honorable gentlemen who have been addressing the Chair. Furthermore, we have no more authentic information as to what the intentions of the Government are than I got a moment ago from the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender). If the business of this chamber is to be proceeded with smoothly, the Government must understand that the parties will have to be informed in good time of what the Government intends to do. The way in which this matter has been brought forward to-day is one which can only lead to trouble, and unless the Ministry is very careful, to difficulty in getting business through this chamber. I believe that all parties are quite prepared to assist the Ministry to pass these Estimates-

Mr Spender:

– I told the honorable member last night what I intended to do ; I spoke to him about it in the supper room after midnight.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– The honorable gentleman did nothing of the kind. We did not discuss this matter iu the supper room; the last discussion I had with the honorable gentleman was in his own room.

Mr Spender:

– That is not so. The honorable member” is always making statements of this kind about people. I have a very clear recollection of having discussed this matter with him in the supper room.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– I say just as emphatically that we did not discuss this matter in the supper room. Ths Country party has no objection to the passage of these Estimates, but we wish the Government to understand that we must be informed in reasonable time as to what it proposes to do.

Mr Spender:

– The intention of the Government is to proceed with the Works Estimates and, after that, with the General Estimates.

Question resolved in the affirmative.’

page 2327

QUESTION

REVISED ESTIMATES, 1939-40

Additions, New Works, Buildings, etc.

Parliament

Proposed vote, £1,400.

Mr SPENDER:
Acting Treasurer · Warringah

– In the Estimates tabled on the 8th September last an amount of £6,195,000 was included for works services payable from revenue. The amount in the Revised Estimates is £3,534,000. The following is a summary of the proposed appropriations : -

The amount of the proposed appropriation, £3,534,000, does not include works constructed out of the federal aid roads grant to the State, which this year is estimated to amount to £4,100,000. It also excludes works made possible by the Commonwealth grant of £100,000 a year in aid of interest and sinking fund on public works carried out by local authorities.

The original proposals have been reduced at a number of points, the principal of which are : -

Defence, Supply and Development. - £1,891,000, most of which has been transferred to the Loan Estimates and part deferred to next year.

Civil Aviation.- £119,000

Postal Works.- £707,000

The amount of £1,036,000 is provided for departments and services. This is a reduction of £947,000 on last year, due in the main to the transfer of the defence works provision to the Loan Estimates. On the contrary there have been increases over last year in this division of the Works Estimates, the principal ones being -

Attorney-General’s Department. - £124,000, for Patent Office, Canberra.

Department of the Interior. - £140,000, fo.r completion of the War Memorial and other purposes. (Contract let some time ago.)

Civil Aviation.- £240,000, total works vote this year £486,000. In addition ‘ £232,000 is available from the Trust Account.

The balance consists of a schedule of buildings and works, including river Murray works, of the usual type necessary for housing expanding departmental activities, lighthouses, repatriation hospitals, &c.

The provision for postal works” shows a decrease of the revenue charges from £3,700,000 last year to £1,293,000 this year. It is to be remembered, however, that £2,000,000 is provided in the Loan Estimates for these works, while the whole amount was found from revenue in 1938-39. If the whole amount provided in revenue and loan this year is used, the expenditure for the year will be only about £400,000 under that of last year. An amount of £153,000 is provided for railways as against £142,000 spent last year. An increase of £150,000 has been provided for expenditure on works in the territories. This is due principally to the heavy expenditure for water and electric supply in Darwin, and partly for other necessary works. The provision of these amenities has become essential on account of the great development of Darwin due to the importance of its position in relation to defence and civil aviation. The provision for the Australian Capital Territory has increased by £163,000. This is mostly due to the necessity for providing increased housing, there being at present some hundreds of unsatisfied applications for dwellings. An amount of £20,000 has also been included towards the cost of a new hospital which is urgently required.

Any details required by honorable members regarding specific works will be supplied by the respective Ministers during “the debate. Work in progress on the 30th June has been carried on by credits from Treasurer’s Advance, except postal and defence works, a large part of which was authorized by the Loan Act passed in September last.

Mr CURTIN:
Leader of the Opposition · Fremantle

– I do not know whether the first item on the Estimates for new works and buildings is of more significance than the first item on the ordinary Estimates. It is difficult for us to disregard the general principles in these Estimates. Has the general debate been concluded?

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).Che general debate has not yet been commenced; it cannot be commenced on this item.

Mr CURTIN:

– That is an extraordinary dilemma. However, in order to suit the convenience of the Government we

Hire prepared1 to pass these Estimates first..

The CHAIRMAN:

– When these Estimates have been passed’, the general debate on: the first item of the ordinary Estimates will be commenced.

Mr CURTIN:

– I direct attention! to the fact that I do not know what work is to be undertaken under the appropriation for the Parliament. Is this to be ordinary maintenance work, or- new work? In any event-, we are to expend on works out of revenue this year. £1,000,000 less than was voted in the previous financial year. The extraordinary feature of the financial provision for works is in the Department of Defence where, whilst over £1,000,000 was expended on works from revenue last year, nothing is being expended this year. Apparently something will have to be done in order to bring the whole of the expenditure of all the departments, whether from loan, trust funds or revenue, into a formal statement, so that, when dealing with estimates of expenditure, the committee will be better equipped to know precisely what, in total, is being authorized in respect of the activities of given departments. As a matter of fact, the form in which these Estimates is submitted, which is traditional, is one which has been carried on despite the strong recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee some years ago. The difficulties: we have of understanding the position of a department in this method of submitting Estimates, appears to increase rather than to lessen. With regard to the financing of works, it would appear to me to be asking the impossible that there should be an adherence to the previous practice oi using revenue for this purpose. We know that the revenue will be mopped up in the normal activities of the State, plus the extraordinary activities of the State in connexion with the- war. Therefore, it, appears to ma unavoidable that recourse has to be made to loan funds-,, not only for the ordinary programme to provide for works, but also for works which tlie States will carry out, and that loan funds must be used for the purpose of supplementing unremunerative returns in connexion with defence expenditure which cannot conceivably beregarded as capital in its form.

There are one or two things- in these Estimates which appear to call for some reference. An amount of £537,000 is1 to be voted for’ the establishments of His Excellency the Governor-General. I am quite in agreement with the view that Yarralumla was not so arranged as tO’ enable His Excellency to discharge properly what he would regard as- his obligations of hospitality and ceremony. I think it will be generally recognized that the accommodation previously provided in> the reception and dining rooms on the ground floor at Yarralumla was too cramped and inadequate, having regard to the fact that this is the Seat of Government.

Mr Barnard:

– Is it the Seat of Government?

Mr.CURTIN.- At any rate it is the statutory seat of Government, and the residence of His Excellency must be at least of a kind to enable him to discharge in it all of the functions of his office satisfactorily. I make no complaint about the plans for the enlargement of the- accommodation at Yarralumla, but I am rather staggered at the cost of the alterations. It appears to me to be out of all proportion towhat I would have expected had Yarralumla been my own private property. There is in this vote reference, not only to the residence of the Governor-General, but also what are called the establishments of the Governor-General. I take it that in places other than this capital city money is being expended for either the construction or the reconstruction of buildings. I shall oppose the providing of any residence of any sort or kind for the Governor-General in any place other than the Seat of Government. I see no justification for providing the GovernorGeneral with an establishment in Sydney or Melbourne. It would beimpracticable to provide him with establishments in the other capital cities, and Sydney and Melbourne have no greater claim to be regarded as auxiliary federal capitals than any other State capital. This Parliament discharges its full obligation in respect of the provision of an establishment for the Governor-General when it provides the occupant of that office with a home at Canberra.

I am glad the Patent Office is apparently nearing completion. I hope that, if it is possible for the Acting Treasurer to find money during the present year, he will proceed with the general developmental plan of housing for this capital city. The war will come to an end some time, and, when it does, it is desirable that the accommodation required here for the public administration should be found.

I recommend that the Acting Treasurer speak to the Minister for the Army and suggest to him that it is a cheese-paring policy in all of the military camps to put up flimsy accommodation. First of all the amenity provided is very poor, and it must have a prejudicial effect upon the health of the troops, and in addition I doubt whether it is as good to put up sheds of iron as it would be to erect wooden or even stone or brick buildings. I have no more to say about these Works Estimates.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– The committee will agree that the consideration of these Estimates will be fairly hasty, and, further, that only yesterday we received the report of the Auditor-General upon the Treasurer’s statement dealing with the expenditure of last year. I fully agree with the suggestion of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) that there should be in the presentation of these figures some clearcut statement, column by column, of the expenditure from loan, trust fund, and revenue of the different departments. We have no desire in this party to hamper the Government in the prosecution of its works programme. The thing of which we do complain in this Parliament - it is not the first time that this matter has been raised, so the present Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) is not the only one about whom this may have been said - is the inadequate information about many of these items of expenditure. We complain, furthermore, about the difficulty in which the committee is placed in not having sufficient time to go into the Auditor-General’s report before it is asked to vote on items. The Auditor-General occupies a position of very great responsibility and . trust. A question was raised in the House to-day in regard to defence expenditure, and although I have not had a chance to peruse the Auditor-General’s report, apparently the Auditor-General has made some rather caustic comment on mal-administration and wasteful expenditure in the Defence Department. Particularly, in time of war, there will always be a tendency to say that money does not count, but, whilst I am one who believes in wartime in supporting every effort to win the war, the money has to beraised either by taxation or loan, and, if by loan, this committee has to look forward to the day when it will be imposing taxation to meet the interest and principle repayments on that loan. So we should not take too rosy a view of things simply because we happen to be at war.

There are some extraordinary items in these estimates. For -the AttorneyGeneral’s Department there is an item of £125,000. As far as I can recall, the Acting Treasurer gave no information as to just how this expenditure has come about, but I presume that it is on account of the new building that is being erected for the Patent Office in Canberra.

Mr Spender:

– That is so.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– There is an item of £279,000 for the Department of the Interior. That is a big spending department. There is £30,000 for War Service Homes. Provision is made for £486,000 for the Department of Civil Aviation. It is on that department that I want to say a word or two. There is a tendency to overdo the construction of aerodromes. It is necessary, I think, to concentrate on certain good aerodromes in places at which air navigation is likely to take place, and which are likely to be useful airports. The Government is spending too much money over too great a range of aerodromes. I realize the necessity for emergency landing grounds, but there is a tendency to go to extremes in the expenditure of money on aerodromes, just as a few years ago there was a tendency to expend too much money on the provision of hospitals. At that time it was only necessary for somebody to suggest that a country town should have a hospital and up went the hospital, regardless of whether the district was able to maintain it or not. That tendency seems to be apparent to-day in regard to aerodromes. Practically every country town thinks that it should hare an aerodrome. The sites for airports should be carefully selected. They should be provided with plenty of land to meet all eventualities which we can foresee at present, and the construction should be permanent. I should prefer that the Government concentrate on particular aerodromes instead of spreading its activities over half-and-quarter-baked aerodromes scattered all over the country.

The Department of Health has £20,000. That department is not a big spender. It would be interesting to know what.it is proposed to do with that money.

Mr Spender:

– It is proposed to erect a new hospital at Canberra.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– Before that new hospital goes up there should be some discussion in this committee. I was Acting Minister for Health when the Public Works Committee reported on the existing Canberra Hospital, and, on that report, this committee should make proper inquiries before agreeing to the erection of a new hospital.

Mr Spender:

– The hospital was the subject of a report by the Public Works Committee.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– I know that report very well. I have wanted to raise this matter several times in this chamber. That report was one of the most remarkable documents ever submitted to Parliament.

Mr Barnard:

– What was wrong with it?

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– A lot was wrong with it. It recommended that a new hospital should be erected in Canberra at the cost of £1,000 a bed, whereas the cost of the most modern hospital in Australia, the Hobart General Hospital, which is electrically worked from top to. bottom, was between £500 and £600 a bed.

Mr Spender:

– The architect who was responsible for the Hobart General Hospital prepared the designs for the projected hospital at Canberra.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– The architect is not the question. That is not my point. My point has relation to building costs. Building costs in Canberra are absolutely outrageous and it is time the Government got hold of some of the contractors and had a really good talk to them. It is time that the Government got down to how its money is being expended on these things. The Public Works Committee reported that, as the result of its investigation, a saving of about £56,000 in the cost of the erection of this proposed hospital would be made. How was that arrived at? Simply by’ reducing the number of beds. On the same principle, a man could save half the cost of a fence by erecting only half a fence. That is not the kind of work that this committee expects from the Public Works Committee. There should be more investigation of this matter, because there was a minority report signed by two of the members of the Public “Works Committee in which it was stated that the present Canberra Hospital building would serve for ten or fifteen years. The minority report also recommended the expenditure of about £2,000 on the present building. In view of the position with which we are faced to-day with war expenditure and all that, this committee should be doubly careful before committing the Commonwealth to expenditure which may amount to £250,000 before the new hospital is built. This committee should have another look at the matter. The Government should apply the soft pedal.

I was a member of the Ministry which decided on renovations and alterations at Government House, Canberra. When I left the Cabinet, it was expected that a handful of thousands of pounds would be expended, but I see that the cost has now risen to £40,000 or £50,000. That should bo investigated by the Public Works Committee in order that we should know exactly how the Commonwealth was led into unjustifiable expenditure at Government House.

Mr.Gregory. - What is the total cost of Government Houseup to the present?

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– About £130,000. The matter of building costs cannot be taken lightly. There is an onus on the Public Works Committee to get hold of these contractors, stand them up before it and make a searching investigation into building costs at Canberra. I am satisfied that those costs are outrageous and it is time that the Commonwealth Parliament took a hand.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
WANNON, VICTORIA · UAP

. -I cannot let this opportunity go by without supporting the remarks of the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) about the extraordinary costs at Canberra. The honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Stacey), who has had experience in building operations, has often given voice to his dissatisfaction with the high costs of building in the Federal Capital. I should be loath to agree to the erection of buildings at Government House that were not in keeping with the dignity of the office of Governor-General, but it seems to me that for what has been expended at Canberra three adequate residences for the Governor-General could have been provided. Apparently we have not seen the end of that expenditure. I think, with the Leader of the Country party, that this committee should not let this question go by without a protest.

Mr Beasley:

– Or without checking it.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
WANNON, VICTORIA

– Yes. We cannot do very much in this committee other than refuse to pass the item, and that is not a satisfactory way of dealing with things. There should be a strong recommendation from this committee to the Public Works Committee that it should do something about reducing building costs in Canberra. I have examples of the cost of building at Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne, and, almost without exception, I can say that the cost of buildings in Melbourne and Sydney is a little more than half of the cost of similar buildings in Canberra. Something should be done about that. The taxpayers are paying enough for the buildings which have already been erected at Canberra. It seems to me that “there is some agreement among the Canberra contractors that, when tendering for contracts, they shall all tender on high levels. They would be prepared to put the price even higher if it were not for the fact that they would be ashamed to take the money.

I agree in some measure with the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) that aerodromes which are established by the Commonwealth should be constructed on proper lines, but I also think that the Commonwealth has an obligation to assist in the establishment of aerodromes in country centres for use in connexion with civil aviation. Unless assistance be given to them now, many country towns will lose the opportunity to establish aerodromes as time passes, because, especially where land values are high, local governing bodies cannot provide the money to purchase the land required. Many local authorities have made representations to both the Commonwealth and the State Governments for assistance in the purchase of land for this purpose, but almost invariably the reply received from the Commonwealth authorities has been that, unless the area would be of value from a defence point of view, it cannot make money available for the purpose. When we compare the vast expenditure involved in the erection of buildings at Canberra with, the small amount which would be necessary to secure land for aerodrome purposes, it seems to me that the existing policy needs revision. In the future, aif travel will be one of our greatest means of transport ; but unless land for the construction of aerodromes be secured now, many important centres will never have landing grounds except at excessive cost for the purchase of land.

Mr BARNARD:
Bass

.- I am glad to notice the interest which honorable members are taking in the cost of building in Canberra. There can be little doubt that a “gentleman’s agreement “ exists among contractors in this city. It is true that a similar state of affairs exists elsewhere, but probably the contractors here have formed a closer preserve than anywhere else in Australia. The Government would do well to encourage other builders to come here to operate on a competitive basis. If that were done, I am convinced that the taxpayers would benefit.

This morning there has been some criticism of the recommendation of the Public Works Committee with respect to a new hospital for Canberra. A new hospital is badly needed in this city. Notwithstanding the demands on the Treasury for expenditure on defence works at the present time, the need to provide accommodation for the sick in this community should not be entirely ignored.

Although comparatively new to ministerial office, the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) has added to his other accomplishments that of secretiveness and unwillingness to divulge information to honorable members. Since I have been a member of this Parliament, the reluctance of Ministers to supply information has been most noticeable; yet this is the place where information as to the Government’s proposals’ should be obtainable. Were it not for statements in the press, we should know little of what is contemplated. I suggest to the Acting Treasurer that he doc not further cultivate this habit of withholding information from honorable members. T have, however, brien able to obtain some information regarding the proposal to erect a memorial to His Majesty, King George V., and on that subject I have some criticism to offer.

I agree with the proposal to erect a memorial to him, but I disagree entirely with the proposed form of that memorial. The expenditure already incurred in connexion with it amounts to £6,593, and it is contemplated that during the curren! financial year, a further sum of £14,800. will be required. The memorial is to take the form of a statue outside Parliament House, in accordance with the design submitted by the late Mr. Rayner Hoff, of Sydney. The main feature of the memorial will be a statue of the late King and a figure of St. George, arranged on opposite sides of a pylon, which will stand on a platform. In addition, there will be suitable approaches. The statue is to be in bronze and the rest of the structure in stone. The memorial will be placed on the main axis of the City of Canberra in the open space in front of Parliament House. The date for the completion of the contract is the 30th June, 1940. There is already in King’s Hall of this building a statue of the late King so that there is every reason why the new memorial shall take a different form. In my opinion, the proposal to expend £20,000 on a project of this kind is utterly ridiculous. However greatly we revere the memory of the late King, it would be the height of absurdity to have two statues to him in such close proximity.

I have not had the honour to meet King George V. personally, but from what I have read of him, I believe that he was a man with a great affection for his fellows, particularly those who were sick and in distress. The most appropriate memorial to him in this city would be a well-equipped community hospital. I do not know which Minister had the brain-wave which resulted in this ridiculous proposal, but I declare my hostility to the whole project. I should like to know what the Government proposes to do in regard to the proposal for the erection of a new community hospital at Canberra?

Mr Perkins:

– Tenders are being called for that building.

Mr BARNARD:

– I am pleased to hear that. The work has been for too long delayed, yet the Government proposes to spend £14,800 this year on the erection of a memorial which will be no more than an ornament, and may not even be that. Truly, we are living in a mad world, and the Government allows itself to be influenced too much by events on the other side of the world. Notwithstanding the fact that we have been waiting for years for a new hospital in Canberra, and that hundreds of persons lack homes, the Government proposes to procoed with this scandalous and inexcusable expenditure on a memorial. Parliament should have been consulted before the Government committed itself to this project. Apparently, the decision was reached during the financial year 1936-37, immediately after the depression, when thousands of people were actually starving, when the development of Canberra and the surrounding territory was being neglected, and when hundreds of persons were without homes.

Mr Martens:

– How much was expended on the Treasurer’s house?

Mr BARNARD:

– I have mentioned that matter before. I understand that the cost was £7,000.

Mr Martens:

– That was the original estimate. It has cost much more since then.

Mr BARNARD:

– -I know that all kinds of lavish fittings have been installed, including private bathrooms for guests, at a time when other people have not even houses, let alone bathrooms. However, I am not so much concerned now with the cost of that house. It has been built, and if it is standing empty now, the fault lies with the Government, of which the right honorable member for Corio (Mr. Casey) is a member. He will not want the house now, and so no rent will be paid. I protest emphatically against the Government’s proposal to expend £20,000 on the provision of a memorial. This is merely a further example of the” maladministration of the Government and its lack of appreciation of community needs.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- The

Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) and the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) suggested that a statement should be prepared showing the total expenditure of works from revenue, trust fund and from loan. That information is given on page 323 of the Estimates. It is proposed to provide £1.293,000 out of revenue for expenditure on postal works, and. I take it that that is in addition to the amount of £2,000,000 which is to be provided out of loan. I support the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition who stressed the need for more information regarding proposed expenditure. In all British Parliaments control of the public purse is regarded as the supreme function of Parliament, but proceedings in this Parliament are becoming a farce. It is proposed this year to expend, out of revenue and loan, £150,000,000, but honorable members will have no opportunity to examine properly the various items of expenditure. I am very disappointed that the Government has not seen its way to reconstitute the Public Accounts Committee. Some time ago, the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) stated in this House that it was the intention of the Government to do so, but nothing has been done. It is obvious that honorable members are not able, during the budget debate, to make a close scrutiny of expenditure. In the first place, there is not sufficient time, and it frequently happens that items representing millions of pounds are rushed through without any consideration at all. That happened in connexion with the loan appropriation of £25,000,000 the other day. Detailed information is not available, and honorable members must take a great deal for granted. I commend the Government for having appointed advisory committees in connexion with various financial matters, but we must not forget that in the final analysis, the responsibility for public finance rests with Parliament. This is recognized in other British dominions, where provision is made for careful analysis of expenditure. In Great Britain, Canada and South Africa there are parliamentary Anam committees representative of all parties, and it is the duty of these committees to make an exhaustive examination of all proposed expenditure, and to submit a report to the Parliament. During my brief parliamentary experience I have been very surprised to note the lack of parliamentary control over public expenditure. I warn honorable members that if Parliament is to have its powers curtailed in this, direction and in others, ordinary members of Parliament will have their duties reduced to that of seeking information on behalf of their constituents. As a matter of fact, the ordinary member will become nothing more than a glorified messenger.

Mr BEASLEY:
“West Sydney

– I am not satisfied with the manner in which public works are, in many cases, carried out under the contract system. During the last parliamentary recess, in order to force the observance of award conditions, an attempt was made by the timber workers’ organization to hold up construction on the Ingleburn military camp because of the failure of the Government to honour its undertaking in these matters. As time goes on the conditions revealed in this case are being found to apply to numerous other cases, and sooner or later the result must be an industrial dispute of wide dimensions unless the Government applies a remedy. We have brought our complaints concerning the construction of the Ingleburn camp before the Prime Minister, and also the Minister directly responsible for the job, but so far we have received no satisfaction.

It appears that contracts are let in various ways. In some instances, tenders are called on a competitive basis, but in other instances tenders are not called. I understand that the names of certain contractors have been placed on a list in the Works Branch. How those names were obtained in the first place I do not know. This information should he furnished to the committee. The system in operation appears to me to be reserving certain rights to a particular section of builders to the complete exclusion of other builders. No public pronouncement was made on behalf of the Government that indicated to builders generally that they might apply to have their names listed in this way for consideration in relation to these works. It must be clear to all honorable gentlemen that many contractors, quite capable of carrying out works of this kind and with a reputation for honouring court awards and treating their employees well, are being totally disregarded. They are not even given the opportunity to submit prices for jobs. I am given to understand that an advisory panel has been set up which selects builders to whom certain jobs are given on the basis of cost, plus five per cent. How does the department make its selections as between, say, Smith and Brown ? The Government may not, of course, be under any obligation to accept the recommendations of the advisory panel, but unless it does so the committee would not be able to render very useful service. I have made inquiries and I find that one of the members is Sir Archibald Howie.

Mr Ward:

– A good “ Nat “.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Quite so. This gentleman has been “ up to his neck “ in building operations in New South Wales for many years. While he may not be actively engaged in building at present, he is very closely associated with builders in active operation. He is a member of the Legislative Council of New South Wales and takes a very active part in party politics in the interests of the United Australia party. He is also interested in municipal affairs and has been directly associated, financially, with companies which supply bricks, pipes, concrete requirements and other building equipment required by the Works Branch.

Another phase of this subject requires some consideration. I understand that the assets and financial backing of contractors are examined. The result is that contractors favoured by certain financial institutions are able to get financial support to a degree that gives them a decided preference. This is detrimental to the interests of smaller contractors, whose assets may not be so great, and who are not favorably treated by the financial institutions. It appears, therefore, that certain big contractors are obtaining a monopoly of the jobs made available from government sources, with the result that their position is becoming stronger all the time, while contractors who do not operate in quite such a big way are placed in an unfavorable position.- It is unfortunately a fact that many of the larger contractors, with strong financial support, are the greatest offenders in relation to the non-observance of award rates and conditions.

Before this discussion concludes, the Government should make a clear statement on this whole subject and enunciate the details that apply to this system of letting contracts at cost plus 5 per cent. We desire to know what power the advisory panels exercise and also to what degree the placing of contracts is governed by the director indirect advice of financial institutions. W.e object to contracts being given to a small coterie of contractors who thereby are able to obtain a monopolistic grip on government work. The whole situation is very unsatisfactory.

There is dissatisfaction in the building trade generally, as well as among the employees, at the procedure that is being adopted and this dissatisfaction is leading to quite a lot of suspicion. It is not my responsibility to make, charges against any one in this connexion, but I resent the degree of discrimination that is being exercised. The operation of the advisory panels is tending to the strengthening of certain groups of people in the community. It appears to me that ih is system is being vised as a kind of smokescreen to disguise the activities of certain interests whose intention is to strengthen particular financial groups to the detriment of the general contractors. Sir Archibald Howie, in my opinion, is almost the last person in Australia who should have been called upon to advise the Government impartially on such a matter.

A condition of all of these contracts is that award rates shall apply, but in many instances the contractors who are given the jobs sub-let certain work to other contractors. In actual practice, cases have been brought under notice of the original contractors doing only about 10 per cent, of the jobs, the other 90 per cent, having been “ parcelled out “ to sub-contractors. One result of this has been that, when breaches of awards have occurred and non-unionists have been engaged - this always leads to breaches of awards - and we have endeavoured to discover the facts, the official reply has nearly always been that the contractor is observing the ti wards. That, may be so in respect of 10 per cent, of the work which he is doing, but it is certainly not so in respect of the remaining 90 per cent, which has been “ parcelled out “ to sub-contractors.

Mr Martens:

– And the subcontractors are making larger profits by evading the awards.

Mr BEASLEY:

– That is often the case. We feel that we have a legitimate grievance in this connexion. If the situation is not remedied, two results will be inevitable: First, the employees will be deprived of the wages and conditions that should apply to their work; and, secondly, the contractors who are observing award conditions will be squeezed out of business. The whole position should be most carefully inquired into, and the Government should insist upon the payment of award rates and the observance of award conditions on every job. It is not sufficient to protect the position in respect of the original contractors; the sub-contractors must be equally bound.

Although I am discussing this point in relation to the work at Ingleburn camp, my remarks apply with equal force to very many undertakings. An improvement of the position is overdue and we strongly request the immediate redress of our complaints. In relation to the Ingleburn camp, I should point out that that job was secured by Beat Brothers Proprietary Limited but contracts were sublet to Hudson Proprietary Limited, the big timber merchants of Sydney.

Mr Holloway:

– That is the only firm of timber merchants of which 1 know that will not obey court awards.

Mr BEASLEY:

– In the last few months the firm has been before the court on several occasions for breaches of awards.

Mr Blackburn:

– It has also been in two High Court actions.

Mr BEASLEY:

– The late president of the Federal Arbitration Court, Judge Dethridge, said on one occasion in Sydney that he was sorry that the law did not permit him to lay down more stringent conditions in regard to the operations of Hudson’s Proprietary Limited. Almost every timber merchant in Sydney has complained about the Government allowing this firm to “ get away with it “. I might explain, for the information of honorable members, that these buts are fabricated in the factory and are supplied in a form similar to that of the ready-cut homes in which this firm specializes. The contract was originally secured by Beat .Brothers Proprietary Limited, of City-road, Sydney, who sublet 70 per cent, of it to Hudson’s Proprietary Limited. It is about the sub.contractors that all these complaints have been made. All that has to be done in the camp is to lay the blocks and floors, and assemble the sides and the roof, which have already been fabricated in the factory. In dealing with a question such as this it is not sufficient for a Minister merely to say that the Government will, in future, stipulate in contracts such as this that certain labour conditions shall be observed. It should be prepared to go further and police those conditions. In an endeavour to straighten out this matter, I discussed it with the Assistant Works Director, Mr. Mehaffey. He was good enough to produce, for my observation and that of representatives of the organizations concerned, statutory declarations furnished by parties about whom the complaints were made. I asked Mr. Mehaffey what steps the department had taken to test the accuracy of the statements made in the statutory declarations. He replied, “ None whatever “. Unless steps are taken to test the accuracy of statements made in statutory declarations such as these, they are not worth the paper on which they are written. As every honorable member knows, statutory declaration forms can be procured practically for the price of the paper upon which they are printed. We regard this matter as of sufficient importance to warrant our asking the Government to

C take adequate steps to prevent a repetition of these complaints. There are still many works to be undertaken, not only out of the appropriations in these Estimates, but also out of the appropriations in the Loan Estimates. I know, of course., that a good deal of the money which we are now asked to vote has already been expended; but, neverthe- less, the Government should take adequate steps to prevent a repetition of this sort of thing in the future. I wish to make two submissions in regard to this matter. In the first place, the system under which these contracts are let should be overhauled, because at present unfair discrimination is being practised, perhaps through the influence of Sir Archibald Howie, a member of the Defence Advisory Panel. Does the Minister accept entirely the advice tendered by the panel, or can he produce evidence to show a case in which that advice has not been accepted? Can the honorable gentleman cite an instance in which the selection of a contractor by the panel was not accepted, or can he explain why only certain firms or contractors are permitted to list their names for consideration to the exclusion of al] others? I. should also be glad if the Minister would explain why such a large deposit is required in connexion with tenders for this work. The deposit demanded is so large as to preclude many reputable contractors from participation in the work. The second point I make is that very strict conditions should be laid down regarding the employment of men by ‘contractors or sub-contractors. There are 30 or 40 different classifications of employees engaged in the timber trade, for instance, and it is obvious that a person not possessing full knowledge of the trade would be incapable of policing all of the awards covering those men. The only practical way out of the difficulty is to provide that the contractor or sub-contractor shall be required to employ only members of organizations representative of the callings concerned. If that be done the trade unions will become responsible for the policing of the awards. The unions would be glad to accept that responsibility, and they would be in a position speedily to bring defaulting contractors or subcontractors up to scratch.

Mr BLAIN:
Northern Territory

– I rise to voice my protest against the form in which these Estimates are presented, which gives honorable members little opportunity to ascertain how the appropriations are to be expended. Honorable members have referred to the provision of a hospital for Canberra. I know nothing about that; but I do know that the Public Works Committee visited Darwin last year in connexion with the proposal for the construction of a hospital there. May I say, in -passing, that I should like to see the ambit of the charter of the committee extended. I am afraid that the Public Works Committee did not employ the whole of its time in Darwin profitably. After first having taken important evidence from experts, it took evidence of secondary importance from so-called authorities and, to an undue degree, its decisions were influenced by that secondary evidence, with the result that its recommendations with regard to the Darwin hospital were of no great value because the number of beds was reduced. On my last visit to Darwin a few weeks ago a senior officer informed me that if the Public Works Committee had not visited Darwin at all, the hospital would have already been erected.. That is a serious charge, but this gentleman regarded it lis warranted. Instead of relying, on the evidence of experts as the basis on which to frame its recommendation, the committee accepted, and gave undue weight to, the evidence of ill-informed people. I wish to compliment the committee on its recent report in connexion with the construction of the administrative building at Darwin, although I believe that it is not required for many years, and I objected to it. I believe that, before any large works of this description are undertaken, the town of Darwin should be planned by a competent town-planning authority. The Public Works Committee reported in similar terms, but nothing has been done.

Mr James:

– Take your hands out of your pockets !

Mr BLAIN:

– Not while the honorable member is about.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr Prowse:
FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Order !

Mr BLAIN:

– I wish to quote now a paragraph from a circular issued by the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) relating to the activities of his department. The sixth paragraph of that report read’s -

The day following the outbreak of war advice was received of vital defence requirements at Darwin. In this instance, too, a commencement was made on these urgent defence works of approximately £37,000 within 24 hours of notification to the department.

Mr James:

– I ask the honorable member to take his hands out of his pockets.

Mr BLAIN:

-Not while the honorable member is in the chamber.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order! If the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) interjects again, I shall name him.

Mr James:

– On a point of order, Mr. Chairman. Before you name me may I be permitted to say that the hon orable member for the Northern Territory should be directed by the Chair fo comport himself in a manner consonant with the dignity of this chamber.

The CHAIRMAN:

– There is no point of order. The honorable member for Hunter will resume his seat.

Mr BLAIN:

– Yesterday, I asked the Prime Minister if he would make available to honorable members a copy qf the report furnished by the Defence Advisory Panel in relation to its defence works at Darwin. The Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) replied that the Government had received a report from the panel but that it had no evidence that a state of chaos existed in Darwin in connexion with defence works. On the Defence Advisory Panel are three technical members, one an engineer and one an architect, and two Government officials. The latter were apparently responsible for the delay in commencing works in Darwin because we all know that we had eleven months and two weeks’ warning after Munich to prepare for the war which, I have no doubt, every body fully expected to break out. I regret that the panel has not seen fit to present a report to the Government as to the chaotic state of our defence preparations in Darwin. I make no complaint about the appointment of Sir Archibald Howie to that body. My only regret is that he was unable to visit Darwin, because his great experience of the building trade would have been of invaluable assistance in considering Darwin’s defence needs. When we employ highly-skilled men of the calibre of Sir Archibald Howie we expect to have the benefit of their advice in relation to matters that come under their purview. The pipe line from Mountain Gap to Darwin, a distance of 34 miles, and forming part of the water reticulation scheme in the township, is a disgrace to the contractor responsible for it. If the chief engineer for water supply at Kalgoorlie had. been invited to examine this pipe line ho would I believe, have readily condemned it ana ordered its replacement instead of allowing it to remain as a visible witness of the incompetency of the contractor responsible for it. The pipe line ungraded reminds me of a carpet snake wandering over a stack of timber. The concrete cradles supporting the line are twisted and distorted and the pipe meanders all over the place. The contractor or whoever is responsible for it should be hauled over the coals. This work should be reported on by some competent person who knows how a pipe line should be laid, graded and reinforced against expansion pressure. Although I condemn the finished job as a disgrace to the contractor responsible for it, I pay a compliment to the welders who worked on the line ; they did an excellent job. The reticulation and the construction of the overhead tanks at Darwin was carried out by engineering architects of the highest professional attainments, and the work has been excellently done.

Honorable members have mentioned the exorbitant cost of housing in Canberra. I wish to refer now to the inordinately high cost of house construction in the Northern Territory. To house a man and his wife, without children, the department provides a dwelling at a cost of from £2,500 to £2,800. This is amazing because the officials do not require large houses. As a matter of fact they have asked me to make representations in the Parliament that smaller houses should be provided for them at a cost of from £800 to £1,000, first, because they cannot afford to furnish the larger houses, and, secondly, because they are disgusted with the. high rents charged for the more expensive dwellings.

Sitting suspended from 12. b5 to 2.15 p.m.

Mr BLAIN:

– Before the sitting was suspended, I was referring to the housing position in the Northern Territory, and the expenditure of the Defence Department and the Department of the Interior as shown in these Estimates, which have been thrown -before us as an amorphous mass for dissection. I wish to suggest a reason for the inordinate cost of houses for two persons from Darwin to Alice Springs. That reason is this: The architectural branch of the Department of the Interior has not the capacity to design a moderate home. It takes the view that the tenants have the Bank of England behind them. The branch does good work in designing stone edifices like the Commonwealth Bank - so good, in fact, that the Commonwealth Bank Board, which has the right to employ private architects for its work, chooses the architects of the department. It is remarkable that architects whose work in the higher planes of architecture is so bril-Kant cannot produce equal results when they apply themselves to domestic architecture. Whereas private, builders, who are by no means qualified architects, can design and build a home at a cost of from £500 to £1,000, the departmental architects seem incapable of applying their minds to designing a moderately-priced cottage. Senior officers in the Northern Territory have asked me to make representations about this, because they cannot afford the houses that the department provides for them. The department charges them 10 per cent, of their salaries as rent, and it recoups itself handsomely for its’ outlay. The officers do not want such elaborate homes. They cannot afford to buy the furniture necessary to equip such places. The newly-appointed Lands Officer at Alice Springs had a home built for him at a capital cost of £2,600. He said to me that it was an absolute disgrace. A home worth from £800 to £1,000 would have been good enough for him and his wife and two children. The other £1,600 would have been better employed, he said, in buying wire netting and providing other assistance for the settlers. The situation is serious, and the Minister should apply himself to the matter- immediately.

There are at Darwin three arms of the Defence Forces - the Navy, Army and Air Force - and, in’ addition, the Public Works Branch has a staff there. There is absolute lack of co-ordination between them. I asked a question in Parliament last week, in which I suggested that the Administrator of the Northern Territory should be in charge of all works, defence and otherwise, the administration and everything else appertaining to the Northern Territory. When Mr. Abbott, was appointed Administrator, it was said that he was to have full authority, but it seems that he has no authority at all. I received a very curt reply. This was my question -

In view of the fact, that the Administrator nf the Northern Territory controls the Works Department at Alice Springs, u thousand miles from Darwin, hut does not. control the important Works Department in Darwin, will the

Minister immediately place all works under the Administrator so that he may rapidly coordinate the Navy, Army and Air Force building activities iu Darwin?

To my amazement, I received the following reply : -

No alteration in the existing arrangement is contemplated.

If that is the case, why all the hullabaloo when the Administrator was appointed? lt seems that there is some sinister influence at work to stop development in the Northern Territory. I shall have more to say about that later.

I wish now specifically to speak about the affairs of building contractors in Darwin, in an endeavour to ascertain how it is that a man who’ arrived in Darwin as a man of straw without the means even to buy a wheelbarrow, now has behind him the backing, of unlimited southern capital I shall make it my business to discover who are the shareholders in the company of which that man is now the representative. That man has a £280,000 contract at the Larrakia Barracks as well as another £250,000 contract on a cost plus 5 per cent, basis at the Royal Australian Air Force aerodrome. Much of the timber on the two jobs is interchangeable. It is extraordinary that the Government should be so unmindful of its duties to the people as to allow what is occurring to-day. Stocks of timber are disappearing. It would riot take a great deal of unconscious bias to believe thai timber- destined for one job arrives at another job. Lorry loads of , timber are being missed. They disappear and cannot be accounted for at the bond store. The Railways Department cannot say where the timber gets to. I realize thai there is insufficient accommodation at the bond store. But the small contractors have to pay for their timber on draft and the bond store cannot check it out. What is happening to the timber? Does Burns Philp Limited throw it overboard from its vessels? This is a serious matter. The dialler contractors enter into contracts. They have four or five thousand pounds worth of capital. When their timber is lost they cannot complete their jobs. The Advisory Panel on Defence Works visited Darwin and, when I asked the Minister for War (“Mr. Street) about its visit, he Mid that the panel had made no report referring to my suggestion that chaos exists at Darwin. To prove that there ia chaos, I shall recount what happened to one cargo of timber that was carried on a Burns Philp vessel. Burns Philp offered double time for Saturday afternoon unloading. I should have no objection to that if it were ordered by an industrial board, but the Railway Department refused to co-operate, because it said it would amount to a breach of the award The Commonwealth, Railways Commissioner, Mr. Gahan, has been making promises to the rail employees and not keeping them. He has kept to the letter of the award instead of compromising with the men. When the’ vessel could not be unloaded it sailed on to Singapore with the timber aboard. That timber went back to Sydney and on a south seas and island cruise before it was eventually landed at Darwin after many weeks’ delay. The timber had been intended for a job at the naval radio station. The contractor had everything else waiting, but no timber. I venture the opinion that had the contractor concerned been this former man of straw to whom I have referred, there would have been no delay in having it unloaded. The Advisory Panel on Defence Works obviously glossed that matter over and I think I know the reason. We have had visiting Darwin, as members of the advisory panel, a director of defence works and the director ‘ of. works, Melbourne, whom I have described f’ a» “ sinotherers “. .There is some reason why the report of the Advisory Panel on Defence Works has not been delivered to Parliament. It has been smothered. If the advisory panel has not reported what is happening at Darwin, it should be dispersed and replaced by a panel of men who will ensure that for each pound that this Parliament votes for expenditure in the north, 20s. worth of work will be done.

I wish to cite some of the tilings that the bluenosed shark of the south seas, Burns Philp Limited, has done. That company chartered the vessel Thornybank to deliver the Darwin material which was needed not only for the carrying out of defence contracts, but also for supplies of stores to the interior as far as “Victoria River Depot. The cargoes were held back until that vessel was chartered, in spite of the fact that the Merkur was available.

The reason was that Burns Philp Limited was able tomake a 25 per cent. rake-off oh theThornybank, whereas it is only entitled on the monthly mail boat to 10 per cent. The Advisory Panel on Defence Works has said nothing about that. The’ Minister seems complacent about it, but it needs a searching inquiry by the Minister for the Interior. If he does not make that inquiry, he must be replaced by some one who will do so, even if I have to be there to see that he does it. When the Thornybank reached Darwin, it was filled down to under the Plimsoll line;

Men went from the south to Darwin as carpenters for the Department of the Interior. After being engaged on public works they were subsequently transferred to a contractor. There was a dispute which caused further delay. Recently, I asked whether the department considered that there had been a breach of faith, and I received an answer in the negative. I have here a petition signed by 60 men, including carpenters, plumbers andpainters who wereconcerned in the dispute.The petition begins-

We, the undersigned, late employees at the Royal ‘ Australian Air Force Aerodrome, Public Works Department, Darwin, desire to place before you the following facts arising out of the dispute when the men walked off on Monday, the 25th September, 1939 . (1). We claim that the work at the Royal Australian Air Force aerodrome, being handed to Mr. H. A. Willmott on the 25th September, 1939, constituted a breach of the agreement . signed by the men affected and the Works Department, Department of the Interior; in the various States of Australia-, and that the action of the Public Works Department in handing, over of the job toWillmott, is against the policy of (Commonwealth works, which is for day labour.

That petition will be forwarded to the Minister, and although he replied to my question in the negative, I ask him to see that this matter is thoroughly investigated. What . happened was that tenders were invited for the construction of the Larrakia Barracks, the work to be completed by the 1st August. The local contractors knew that the work could not be done in the time specified, and; accordingly, they did not tender. However-, a contract was let. Subsequently a dispute arose and the southern press maligned my constituents as’ Bolsheviks. They are not Bolsheviks. The dispute was engineered in order that the contractor could receive an extension of time for the completion of thework. The tactics, worked so well on that occasion, have been repeated. Another so-called strike has been engineered. Senior Ministers, including the Minister for Supply and Development (Mr. Casey), visited Darwin and expressed the opinion that these works should be given to one contractor. I should have thought that my old brigade major would have seen through their scheming: the position is perfectly clear to the people of Darwin. It would appear that the Administrator has had dust thrown in his eyes. The authorities treated the strike as being serious, not knowing that it was engineered. The contractor who went to Darwin from Brisbane to construct the oil tanks was not troubled by strikes. It is unfair that the workers of Darwin should be maligned and that these artisans from Sydney, Brisbane and elsewhere should be treated shamefully. I have seenthem living under disgraceful conditions in the Chinese quarter of the town. Their living conditions would shock honorable members. The conditions at Darwin are all the more to our discredit when we remember that we had. nearlytwelve months’ warning of the likelihood of war. Notwithstanding the period available to him, it was not until the day after the war commenced that the Minister for the Interior was notified of the urgency of defence works. The Northern Territory needs tradesmen, but it will not get them if they are to be subjected to treatment of this kind. These men say that if homes can be built for clerical officers of the department, there is no reason why artisans should have to camp under Coolibar trees and bamboos. Yet that is what they are obliged to do. Dr. Kirkland, the Chief Medical Officer at Darwin, said that he had recommended the provision of an area for the unemployed, but was unable to get any further in providing them with shelter. Yet the Acting Treasurer said that £150,000 extra would be provided for works at Darwin, including the provision of a water supply aud tomes for workers. I cannot understand his statement, but I shall discuss it with him later. I think that the Minister is under a misapprehension, for I cannot believe that he would not have informed me of any intention on the part of the Government to go ahead with a housing scheme at Darwin.

The CHAIRMAN:

– -The honorable member has exhausted his time.

Sir EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- The procedure which has been followed by the Government on this occasion is remarkable in two respects. In the first place, although huge contemplated expenditure is under review, the ministerial head of the Treasury (Mr. Spender) is not in the chamber; and secondly, the committee is being asked to pass- Estimates covering figures which both he and the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) have said are not correct. It seems extraordinary that we should solemnly deal with these printed figures knowing all the time that they are not correct. When the Treasurer delivered his budget speech on the 8 th September, he said -

Indeed, the circumstances in which I do present it to the committee are such as to render it quite inevitable that the budget itself, and also the Estimates upon which it is based, must be subject to revision, perhaps very drastic revision, during the course of the financial year.

On the 30th September, the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) said -

In the meantime, the detailed Estimates have been reviewed by the Government, and revised Estimates of revenue and expenditure have now been presented. These revised Estimates will supersede those which were presented with the Budget.

I now ask the Acting Treasurer whether his revised figures are not just as tentative as those which were placed before us about two months ago. Anyone who remembers how the last war was financed must realize that the later figures are no less tentative than the original ones. In every major item of the Estimates there i3 an alteration from the original figures, and I wonder whether, when the Estimates have been passed, the Parliament will have sanctioned the original figures or those substituted for them. I suggest, for the consideration of the Acting Treasurer, that, for the period of the war, we should follow the practice adopted on a previous similar occasion, when we obtained tentative Supply month by month, and at the end of the year dealt with a comprehensive statement covering the whole of the financial year. If we look at the Appropriation Bill which the Acting Treasurer said that he would ask us to pass, although the figures were wrong-

Mr Spender:

– When did I say that?

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– Either the latest figures submitted to us or those placed before us on the 30th September are right. They cannot both be right. The two statements differ.

Mr Spender:

– I do not agree with the right honorable gentleman.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The Appropriation Bill covering the year 1914-15 was not passed until July, 1915, after the financial year had expired. The Appropriation Bill for the following year was not passed until May, 1916, and it was not until July, 1917, that the appropriation bill covering the financial year 1916-17, which had already ended, was passed. In June, 1918, the Appropriation Bill for 1917-18 was passed, whilst the budget for 1918-19 was not passed until the 18 th. December, when the war was over. I suggest that during the present war we should proceed along similar lines. We are willing to agree to these appropriations for Supply, but we should know what we are doing.

I desire to obtain from the Acting Treasurer some information as to the nature of the changes that have taken place. We find, for instance, that, in respect of war services, including new works, there is a considerable increase, amounting to £1,768,000. There is a decrease, amounting to £112,000, in respect of new works, excluding defence, and also in respect of post office works, the amount in the latter case being £707,000. The committee should be told what these changes represent; it should know which amounts are for new works, and which is expenditure associated with the Military Forces. We should probably have got alone more quickly if the Acting Treasurer had made some of these points clear at the beginning.

Mr Spender:

– In connexion with the first item, I pointed out that it represented a transfer from revenue to loan.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I am endeavouring to obtain information which the people of Australia should know. As to the increased expenditure of £1,768,000 out of revenue for defence purposes, how can that be a transfer from revenue to loan? I should like to know if any of that money will be expended in effecting improvements to the permanent camps which are being established, or whether such improvements will be paid for out of loan money.

In this connexion, I emphasize the urgent necessity for sewering the camps, in which men will live under somewhat crowded conditions for many months. The Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) said the other day that it was proposed to carry out this work in three of the camps. I ask the Acting Treasurer whether it is not possible to ensure that every place in which men will be encamped for four months this year - it is probable that such places will become permanent camps - will be provided with proper sanitation and drainage, especially in the summer months, so as to minimize the. danger of infection.

Exclusive of defence works, the original estimate for new works was £1,068,000, which has now been reduced by £112,000, or 9 per cent., but the original estimate of £2,000,000 for post office works has been reduced by 34 per cent., bringing it down to £707,000. There may be some reasonable explanation for that, but it seems to me that in wartime, particularly if enlistments from the country are to be as high proportionately as they were during the last war, there should be no cheeseparing in the provision of telephonic and postal services in rural areas. During the last war, such policy was, unfortunately, applied. When I returned after the last war, I found that in my own district elderly people, many of whom had taken up work again so that their sons might go away, had their lot made doubly hard because of the absence of proper facilities for communication. Sometimes it was necessary to ride 8 or 10 miles to carry a message to n neighbour, and this could have been avoided if telephones were available. The provision of such facilities will have the effect, in some instances, nf doubling our effective man-power in the country. The proportion of country men enlisting in the forces is relatively high, . and these, are the men who can least be spared. It is essential, therefore, that every possible facility should be provided to enable the necessary work to be done by those who remain. As the Prime Minister has pointed out. the people of Australia, and particularly the country people, have a very important task to perforin in that they must supply food and material, not only for this country, but also for the heart of the Empire. In 1919, at the conclusion of the last war, conditions in the Postal Department were so deplorable that, although it is a government business monopoly, many people had to wait four or five years after paying their application fees before telephones were installed. We then brought in a very wise and skilful engineer and organizer in the person of Sir Harry Brown, whose job for the first three or four years was to re-create what had been destroyed by government parsimony during the period of the war. It seems a pity that his services should have been lost to the department just at the present time. However, the department is now under new management, which makes it all the more necessary that the new manager should be given a fair spin. It has still to be demonstrated to me that the investment of, say, £700,000 in capital equipment for the department would not be just as important as are many of the new capita) issues ‘which are being permitted in ordinary commercial undertakings. I am convinced that certain additions that are being effected to State or local public buildings are not nearly so important as are the postal works that need to be done. We should develop a sense of proportion at a time like this. Why was it necessary to reduce the vote for postal works by 34 per. cent., when the vote for ordinary works was reduced by only 9 per cent. ?

Mr Spender:

– The total amount which will be expended this year on new postal works is only £400,000 less than was expended last year, and we are now at war.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– It has been argued, with a good deal of justice, that expenditure in the past has been too much restricted ; and, as I have pointed out. such expenditure will be even more necessary in the future than it was in the past.

Yesterday, I asked the Acting Treasurer for information regarding the list prepared by the Federal Government of works of low defence priority which are feeing carried out, not with the funds we are now considering, but out of a vote designed especially to provide employment. We cannot consider public undertakings, whether financed out of general revenue or in any other way, without having regard to the position of the States, as well as that of the Commonwealth. The States, by virtue of the Constitution, and because of their enormous public works programmes, are much more directly responsible for the employment of the people than is the Commonwealth. Not only do the States provide employment directly . on public works, but they also control facilities such as railways and electric supplies, upon which private commercial undertakings- must depend. Over twelve months ago, the Lyons-Page Government formulated a scheme for securing co-ordination between State and Federal Governments in regard to public works, but the present Government seems to have lost all ideas of planned co-ordination. Works, which may be indispensible from the point of view of the development of the country and the desirable decentralization of industry, should not be neglected because some other public work happens to have been started’.

I also urge that efforts be made to secure the full co-operation of the Public Works Departments of the States in carrying out Commonwealth works. Because the State governments are short of money, many of their skilled engineers and officers are unemployed, which is a national economic waste at a time like this. Some method should be devised to ensure that State departments may be engaged upon works, which, even though they are not actually defence works, are so closely associated with the development of the country that they may be regarded as of prime importance at a time like this. In that way we could provide for the proper employment of capital and of skilled and unskilled labour, ‘ and- also ensure that when peace returns, we shall be able to revert to a peace-time footing with less dislocation and suffering than occurred twenty years ago.

As I have pointed out, the figures contained in these Estimates will not be the final figures for the year. They will be changed again and again. Therefore, why should we have to stew here for two or three days over a set of Estimates which have no practical value as Estimates? Why not pass a Supply Bill now, so that later in the financial year complete Estimates may be brought down ? There seems to be only one reason for passing the whole of the Estimates and the appropriation bills at this time, lt was never done so early in the year during the last war. The proposal of the Government would be justified only if it were not intended to call Parliament together until next June, and that would be a calamity.

Mr Spender:

– There is no such suggestion.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The British Parliament is in almost continuous session, and honorable members admit that the discussions which have taken place in this Parliament during the last three weeks have been invaluable in informing the Government of the state of the public mind.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- The cost of public works in Canberra has been a problem ever since the construction of the Capital began. The high cost is, I suppose, one of the consequences of setting up a capital in a remote ‘ part of the country. The cost of living here is high, and expert workers have to be brought here on special terms. We must expect costs to remain high, at any rate, until the Capital is a larger and more important place than it is to-day. There is no good reason, however, for attributing any part of the high cost to the shortcomings of the Public Works Committee. As a matter of fact, that committee is given very little opportunity to investigate the principal works in Canberra. Only the small undertakings are referred to it. The principal works are put in hand by the Works Department without being referred to the committee at all. Indeed, it seems to be part of the policy of the Works Department to avoid referring matters to the Public Works Committee. Recently, a high school was constructed in Canberra at a contract price of £75,000, and a large Patent Office is now being erected here at an estimated cost of more than £100,000. Neither work was referred to the Public “Works Committee for report. I have been informed, whether correctly or otherwise I cannot say, that some of the provisions in relation to the naval radio station at Canberra are almost fantastic. Expense of an unduly heavy character is also being incurred in the erection of dwelling houses here. The costs are inexplicable compared with costs for similar residences in other Australian cities. The honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Stacey) is a practical builder and he has informed me that homes erected in Adelaide of a similar type to those being built in Canberra cost almost 50 per cent. less. “We are faced at the moment with a programme of works for the Defence Department estimated io cost more than £10,000,000, but only meagre details have been given to us. I venture to say that not one private member knows where, or how, or what works are to be put in hand. I fear greatly that the country is being called upon to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds more for its defence works than it should be required to pay. In my experience, Government departments are too prone to disregard costs. They prepare programmes and do their utmost to carry them out without worrying about the expense, for they know that the Government and the resources of the Commonwealth Bank can be drawn upon for finance. It would pay the Government handsomely to set up small expert committees of practical builders and contractors to check the figures in relation to all defence works. Such committees would quickly save the country far more than would be involved in their salaries.

Mr Gander:

– Day labour is the proper .system.

Mr NAIRN:

– The Public Works Committee hai been informed that day labour jobs in Canberra have been more expensive than contract jobs. I do not blame the Works Branch for this. All 1 say is that day labour is not the solution of the problem of costs.

Mr Gander:

– The Works Department in Sydney is of the opinion that it can get better work under day labour than under contract.

Mr NAIRN:

– Information to a different effect has been furnished to me on this subject. Unfortunately, the Government has seen fit to put many big works in hand, such, for instance, as the extensions to the Sydney Post Office, without referring them to the Public Works Committee. It may be that proposed defence works could not, in some circumstances, be made the subject of public investigation; but a small committee of experts could be employed, with great advantage to the nation, to check the figures in relation to such projects. The experience of the Public Works’ Committee has been that Government departments almost always plan in excess of requirements, and when their proposals have been subjected to criticism, officers have been willing to revise their ideas. The Government should make available a good deal more information than it has done concerning the details of it3 proposed expenditure of £10,000,000 on defence works. We ought to be satisfied that the jobs will be carried out on a reasonably competitive basis. Unfortunately, it was suggested early in the war that defence works would be carried out irrespective of costs. In my view, more need for economy exists in wartime than in normal times, because expenditure has to be incurred under abnormal conditions and speed is often essential. I hope that the Government will take effective steps to check all costs in relation to its works programme in various departments.

Mr MAHONEY:
Denison

– There is far too much overlapping of the activities of the Works Branch of the Department of the Interior, and the Works Branch of the Defence Department. Moreover, it is a frequent experience that estimating is inaccurately done. Departmental estimates are, on occasions, so incorrect as to be almost useless. A difference of about £10,000, either above or below the departmental estimate, in tenders for a job that is expected to cost £20,000, is far too great. I do not know who is responsible for this inaccurate work, but undoubtedly the operations of these two departments in respect of the estimating of the cost of jobs should be placed on a more business-like footing. Genuine’ contractors do not tender for work in an irresponsible spirit. They take out their quantities and work out their figures very carefully. I have in mind a job in connexion with the Military Barracks at Hobart for which tendors were called. The departmental estimate of the cost, turned out to be about £10,000 less than the lowest tender received for the job. That sort of .thing should not be tolerated. It indicates a looseness within the department that should be tightened up without delay. Similar discrepancies in the departmental estimates and the tenders received for other jobs have also come under my notice.

My solution of the problem would be to have all Government constructional works done through one department. I would, not have separate works branches in the Defence Department and in the Department of the Interior. If all estimates were taken out by the one authority, it should make for economy and efficiency.

I agree with die honorable member for Reid (Mr. Gander) who suggested that Government work should be done under the day-labour system in preference to the contract system. Day labour would be found to be more effective, more expeditious, and less costly than the contract system, especially in a time of emergency such as this is. Conditions change from day to day, as Ave know, and the Government would have a much better idea of how things were going if its work were being done on the daylabour system.

Discrimination is being shown against the smaller States in connexion with Government works. The amount of money to be expended in the large States is out o( all proportion to the amount to ‘ be ‘ expended in the smaller States. The Prime Minister made a promise that as far as possible the defence work would be spread- evenly over all the States, hut the promise has hot been honoured; Very large sums are being expended on defence works in New South Wales and Victoria, but very small sums are being expended on similar works in the smaller

States like Tasmania. I regret that it is proposed to expend large amounts in connexion with sewerage works and other services at some of the military camps in the more or less outback areas of New South Wales and Victoria. Our military camps should be located closer to the cities and in places where an abundance of water is available. I advocate the training of men in Tasmania where an abundant supply of water is available for camp purposes. Camps should not be established in places where the water supply is uncertain. I record my protest with that of the Premier of Tasmania against the way in which these works have been distributed throughout the Commonwealth to the detriment of Tasmania. There has been undue delay in undertaking works that should be carried out in Tasmania to bring about the efficiency of the Army and Navy establishments at Hobart and elsewhere. I recognize that these are troublous times but the Government will do no good by shutting its eyes to the fact that it must cut down costs and institute a correct costing system. It should make use of the cheap hydro-electric power available in Tasmania, the charge for which is 15 per cent, lower than anywhere else in the Commonwealth; The Government is like any other business concern and must work on business-like lines. I ask the Acting Treasure^ as the custodian of the taxpayers’ money, to make sure that he obtains the maximum value for every pound that is expended so that a heavy burden will not be placed upon the people as the result of extravagant and inefficient methods of carrying out defence works. I ask him to expedite essential works in Tasmania, such as the building at the Anglesea barracks in Hobart. I hope that that work will be well under- way when Parliament reassembles in the New Year and that it will be carried out to the satisfaction of all concerned.

Mr FRANCIS:
Moreton

.- I take the opportunity presented by this discussion to make a general review of the Government’s works policy. To-day the Government is going ahead with defence and general works programmes unparalleled in the history of Australia, without providing adequate supervision of expenditure on them. Many years ago the Cook Administration established a Parliamentary Standing Committee on public works, composed of representatives of all parties in both House of Parliament, in order to supervise the Commonwealth works commitments, but to-day only a few stray work? are referred to that committee. The present committee and its predecessors have prevented’ the wasteful expenditure of millions of pounds, but the Government to-day is not making effective use of the services of the Public Works Committee.

One of the proposals which the committee was called upon to investigate was the erection of a new community hospital at Canberra. The committee made a very exhaustive examination of that problem and submitted a report to Parliament on - the 10th June, 1938. It considered that the erection of a new hospital was urgently needed and it was hopeful that its recommendation would be readily implemented. Without exception its members held the opinion that the existing hospital was most unsatisfactory, and only one member expressed the view that, because of financial reasons, the carrying out of the new work should be delayed for a little longer. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand why the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) saw fit, in the dying hours of the last sittings of Parliament, and again in the dying hours of the present sittings, to attack the recommendations of the committee in this connexion. I did not hear his speech on the subject earlier to-day but, as chairman of the committee, I took the precaution of discussing with him the major points of his argument in order that I might reply to diem. I wish to ascertain why the honorable gentleman has developed an obsession in regard- to the provision of a new hospital so that, when he has nothing else to talk about, he attacks the Public Works Committees report.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Leader of the Country party is not altogether responsible for the tenor of his remarks.

Mr FRANCIS:

– He must take the responsibility for anything that he has said. I believe that he is attempting to draw a red herring across the trail. The Canberra hospital to-day is a shambles of tumble-down wooden shacks that were erected during the early life of Canberra, solely to provide a temporary hospital for the workmen engaged in the building of the national capital. That collection of buildings has seen service for a quarter of a century and to-day is unworthy of the National Capital. When the committee submitted its report and recommendations, the present Leader of the Country party was Acting Minister for Health. The honorable gentleman should then have moved heaven and earth in the Cabinet to ensure that money was made available for the construction of a new hospital.

Mr Perkins:

– There is a provision of £20,000 for that purpose in the Estimates.

Mr FRANCIS:

– That is what gave rise to the attack made by the Leader of the Country party to-day. In my opinion the present hospital building is dangerous and the method of running it is wasteful. I do not believe that it is the duty of a member of the Public Works Committee to express his personal opinion on a report submitted by the committee, and therefore I shall substantiate my own remarks by quoting the opinions of three of the best qualified experts in the Commonwealth. Those gentlemen are members of the National Capital Planning and Development Committee recently appointed by the Commonwealth Government, the chief function of which is to ensure that the Walter Burley Griffin Plan is carried out. In order to obtain the best men available, the Government went to all of the capital cities of Australia to secure advice. One of the gentlemen’ whose opinion I shall quote is Mr. Bertram James Waterhouse, president of the Board of Architects of New South Wales, president of the trustees of the National Art Gallery, president - of the Society of Arts and Crafts, and a member of the Technical College Advisory Committee. His fellow members on the National Capital Planning and Development Committee are Mr. Harris, a member of the staff of the University of Sydney, and Mr. Meldrum, one of Victoria’s leading architects. As chairman of the Public Works Committee, I am ex officio a member of this new committee, to which the Minister for the Interior (Senator

Foll) recently referred the task of reviewing the site selected by the Public Works Committee for the proposed new hospital. The committee obtained the report of the Public Works Committee and, after studying the evidence submitted and the recommendations made, its three distinguished members asked me to convey to the Public Works Committee their congratulations on the report, which they regarded as an outstanding production, but which the Leader of the Country party professes not to understand. I discussed the report with the present Minister for Health (Sir Frederick Stewart), who also congratulated the committee. He studied the report very carefully and accepted it almost in entirety. As the result, a new hospital containing about 110 beds - more than the number recommended by the committee - is to be built. The Leader of the Country party should have authorized the building of the hospital when he was Acting Minister for Health, but as he fell down on the job and cannot give a reasonable explanation for having done so, he now tells the Parliament that he cannot understand the report. Had the honorable gentleman proceeded with the task, we should not have experienced this unnecessary delay and he would not to-day be attempting to draw a red herring across the trail. I believe that the honorable gentleman asked if there was any necessity for the erection of a new hospital. The committee came to the conclusion that there was. Before arriving at that conclusion it inspected the existing hospital and other modern hospitals and took expert evidence. From its inspection it was obvious that the Canberra Community Hospital was not in keeping with the requirements of the Capital City. The institution had grown in a more or less haphazard way from small beginnings and had never been intended to be anything more than a temporary expedient. The Canberra Community Hospital Board, medical officers in Canberra, and the New South Wales Hospital Commission all ‘ recommended the erection of a new hospital. Having studied that evidence, the three expert gentlemen who have been appointed to the National Capital Planning and

Development Committee agreed that a new hospital should be built. Sir Frederick Stewart, the then Minister for Health, said that the hospital should be gone on with; it is now to be constructed, and for the purpose some thousands of pounds have been placed on the Estimates now before the committee. The only voice I have heard raised against this proposal is that of the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron). The honorable gentleman referred to the selection of a site–

Mr Pollard:

– Is the honorable member far Moreton (Mr. Francis) chairman of this Public Works Committee?

Mr FRANCIS:

– I expect the honorable member to know what parliamentary committees are appointed and who act upon them.

Mr Pollard:

– Then 1 think the honorable member should ‘bs supplanted.

Mr FRANCIS:

– The site recommended by the department was in an area set apart for hospital purposes in the accepted Griffin plan of Canberra, and was supported by the Hospital Board. Other sites were ‘ considered by the committee, and some evidence was tendered in favour of erecting the new building in the vicinity of the existing hospital, but investigations showed that the present site and buildings would not readily lend themselves to redevelopment; the favorable area, was restricted, and, moreover, the location was other than that indicated in the Griffin plan. The committee therefore agreed that the suggested site, which was- recommended as being in every respect suitable for hospital purposes, should be adopted, and the National Development Committee of Canberra confirmed its recommendation.

The Leader of the Country party also referred to the question of accommodation, and asked whether the committee had adopted a haphazard method in coming to the decision that the original proposal was too costly. The present hospital has accommodation for SI persons, with an additional 32 in isolation. After careful consideration of all the evidence, and a study of accommodation provided in towns of similar size elsewhere in Australia, the committee recommended that the legitimate hospital needs of Canberra could be met by providing a hospital with 100 beds apart from the isolation block. The committee had the advantage of hearing the evidence from the manager of the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Colonel Fanning, and the chairman of the board of the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital, Sydney, Dr. Schlink, who had just returned to Australia from a world trip during, which he had made a comprehensive investigation into hospital conditions and management.

Mr Barnard:

– Does the honorable gentleman regard the proposed hospital for Canberra as large enough to meet the requirements ?

Mr FRANCIS:

– I am dealing with that point now. Dr. Schlink informed the committee that there are definite rules governing the provision of hospital accommodation which are uniformly accepted in the United States of America and Europe. He said that for hospitals catering for all cases provision should bc made of 6.5 beds for every 1,000 of the population. By the application of that rule to Canberra’s population of about 10,500 it appeared that 68.25 beds were necessary to meet present requirements. It was estimated that the population of Canberra might increase to 20^000 in 1953, which, at 6.5 beds a thousand of the population, would require 130 beds. The committee has recommended the provision of 132 beds, which would seem to be all that is necessary for a number of years’ to come. I am stressing the point that there was nothing hapazard about the method adopted by the committee in assessing the accommodation required in Canberra; that, on the contrary, a basis of calculation universally accepted was used on the expert advice of a gentleman who had recently returned to this country after an extensive tour round the world. The Leader of the Country, party asked why was the original proposal for 147 beds made. The committee was unable to ascertain who suggested the provision of 147 beds. Throughout the committee’s investigations it was apparent there had been- a lamentable lack of collaboration. No two witnesses agreed as to the number of beds that should be provided, and most of them offered suggestions for the rearrangement of the ‘accommodation. This shows the necessity for having a body such as the Public Works -Committee to inquire into projects such as this. Had the proposed work not been referred to the committee, a hospital equipped with 147 beds would have been constructed and a good deal of the taxpayers’ money would have been wasted. As I have said, no information was forthcoming as to who suggested the original proposal. The committee had no evidence on that aspect of the matter, and it makes its findings only on evidence. It was ascertained that the first approach to Mr. Leighton Irwin, a highly-qualified specialist in hospital construction, was made in July, 1934, by the then Secretary of the Department of the Interior, Mr. H. C. Brown. Mr. Leighton Irwin was then asked to submit sketch plans for the construction of a hospital for Canberra. In April, 1935, Dr. Cumpston asked that the plans should provide for 102 beds. A month later this was amended to 106 and, in. October, 1936, after a conference between ‘the matron, the medical superintendent and several medical practitioners, a suggestion was made embodying further alterations of the original plan. On the information then furnished to him, Mr. Leighton Irwin drew up a plan to provide for 147 beds. Thus, it will be seen that the figure of 147 was arbitrarily arrived at without authority from any one. As I have said, during the committee’s investigations no two witnesses appearing before the committee could agree as to the number of beds required to meet’ the needs of Canberra. The matron suggested 139;- Dr. James, who had been in charge of the hospital, suggested 125; the chairman of the Hospital Board suggested 124; Colonel Fanning suggested 106; Dr. Schlink suggested not more than 100; Mr. Stephenson, a prominent hospital architect in Melbourne, suggested 75 ; and Dr. Cumpston suggested 100. Evidence was given that some patients remained in hospital for longer periods than necessary, and that patients kept in hospital could have been better catered for in other institutions. After taking all these things into consideration, the committee came to the conclusion that the best method of estimating the accommodation required was to adopt the basis suggested by Dr. Schlink, namely, to provide 6.5 beds a thousand of the population.

The Leader of the Country party also referred to the presentation of a minority report. I point out for the information of the honorable gentleman that the Public “Works Committee Act makes no provision for the presentation of minority reports. No minority report by the Public Works Committee has ever been submitted to Parliament. As a matter of fact, although hundreds of resolutions were agreed to by the committee, in only one was there not complete agreement among the members of the committee. Apparently the honorable gentleman regards that as a minority report. When it was decided by the committee to reduce the number of beds to be provided, Mr. Leighton Irwin was asked to re-examine the whole matter. As the result of his further inquiries, he recommended that a hospital providing 106 beds and costing £97,520’ should be constructed.

Mr Anthony:

– Is Mr. Leighton Irwin an expert in hospital architecture?

Mr FRANCIS:

– He is one of Australia’s leading hospital architects, and has designed and built the largest hospitals in Victoria, Tasmania and New South Wales. He has an Australia-wide practice. Dr. Cumpston estimated that it would cost about £1,000 a bed for the construction of a modern hospital building.

Reverting for a moment to the lack of collaboration, Mr. Crapp, the then chairman of Canberra Hospital Board, said- - £ am acquainted with the site on which it is proposed to erect the hospital, but was not consulted about it. The Hospital Board was not consulted concerning the’ plans now before this committee.

Dr. McKellar, who was appointed medical superintendent of the hospital in January, 1938, first scrutinized the plans at the instance of the committee in May of that year. Dr. James stated that the plans had not been discussed by the medical practitioners as a body, and, when before the committee, he offered some suggestions for their improvement.

Finally, the Leader of the Country party said that some examination might be made of buildings now being erected in Canberra.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– “ Of the costs of those buildings “.

Mr FRANCIS:

– The committee has sought to ascertain why costs in Canberra are so high, but it is not empowered to call evidence from numerous contractors to ascertain this information. I believe that such an inquiry might well be undertaken by a select committee of this House. Every one will agree that costs in Canberra are far too high. As the result of the work of the Public Works Committee, millions of pounds of the taxpayers’ money have been saved, and I believe that its work could be made even more valuable if, after making recommendations, it were permitted to examine the actual expenditure associated with projects which have been referred to it. For instance, the committee might recommend that a project should not cost more than £95,000 only to discover after the work had been completed, that the actual cost amounted to £125,000. I suggest that the committee should be empowered to inquire into the reasons for that increased cost. There are far too many buildings being erected in Canberra over which no proper supervision is being exercised. Many of those projects should have been referred to the Public Works Committee for investigation and report. I refer in particular to the Patent Office and Supreme Court building adjacent to the Parliament building; the alterations and additions to the Governor-General’s residence at Yarralumla - I understand that £200,000 has already been spent in connexion with Yarralumla; the official residence for the former Treasurer (Mr. Casey) ; alterations and additions recently carried out to Parliament House; extensions to the Hotel Kurrajong; the demolition and rebuilding of certain buildings at the Royal Military College at Duntroon; the continuation of the main northern sewer ; the construction of storage reservoir and connecting pipe line at Black Mountain, and several batches of cottages aggravating a total cost of more than £25,000.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable member has exhausted hie time.

Mr MAKIN:
Hindmarsh

. Recent investigations have been made into the management of the Commonwealth Railways. I regret that a full report of these investigations has not been made available to members of this Parliament.

Honorable members have a right to know tile full facts in relation to this matter. For a considerable time I have been most apprehensive about matters associated with the administration of the Commonwealth railways. That that apprehension was justified is shown by the fact that a great many of the senior officers felt themselves bound to express their own dissatisfaction in definite charges against the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner. No department can be competently administered when there is so much dissatisfaction as exists in this service. Contentment and cohesion are essential. There is something grievously wrong when so many senior officers formulate charges against the chief of the administration. From my own observation I am far from satisfied that all is well with the Commonwealth railways system, and I believe that a competent railways engineer should be charged by this Parliament with the task of investigating the system. Unless the defects are mended very soon, I shall feel called upon to raise the question in this Parliament as to the wisdom of appointing a royal commission into all phases of the operations of the Commonwealth Railways.

Mr Holloway:

– I thought that the honorable gentleman did have an inquiry made.

Mr MAKIN:

– A departmental inquiry, but, in my opinion, it was a “ whitewashing “ inquiry. If certain conversations that’ll have had about certain phases of that inquiry can be substantiatedand I believe that they can beI shall, at a later opportunity, make some interesting revelations. I am not satisfied that the departmental inquiry gave proper attention to major issues, and I should not be surprised that undue influence was brought to bear. Further investigation of the railways is needed and, unless that investigation is made I shall raise the question in this House, because T do not think that the Commissioner is exercising his administrative powers prudently or competently.

Mr Collins:

– The housing accommodation on the East-West line, is bad.

Mr MAKIN:

– Yes; I cannot under stand why the Commissioner has not dealt with that situation. His failure to do so justifies me further in my opinions as to the shortcomings of the management of this public utility. As the honorable gentleman says, the housing along the East- West line is bad. It is particularly bad at the depots which are called upon to provide accommodation for travelling train crews. The quality of the housing provided for the railway employees cannot compare with that provided for another public utility, namely, the postal service.

Mr Collins:

– An improvement scheme is in operation.

Mr MAKIN:

– It is long overdue.

I understand that the Commissioner is endeavouring to make the railway pay their way. The Commonwealth railway lines traverse the most isolated and inhospitable parts of Australia, and all the difficulties that could be imagined are encountered. A railway service run through country of that description could not be profitable, and it is absurd to attempt to make it 30. Instead of advising the Government about the financial needs of the railways, the Commissioner is trying to squeeze money in every phase of management even to affecting the salary and status of officers and employees, and to economizing in directions where saving is false economy. For instance, the railways equipment . is deteriorating to the point at which it will need replacement at a tremendous cost. Locomotives which should be in reserve in the round-house and in a condition to take the track at any time have been depleted of movable parts for use on the locomotives which are in current use. Tubes and other fittings have been removed from the reserve locomotives for use as spares. That is false economy, because when those reserve locomotives are required to be placed in service, as they may be at any time, it will not be possible to put them in commission without considerable and costly reconditioning. That important aspect alone warrants a thorough expert investigation. The repair workshops at Tarcoola, Cooke and Rawlinna have none of the equipment that should be at workshops far distant from Kalgoorlie and Port Augusta. Major repairs have to be sent from those workshops to either Kalgoorlie or Port Augusta. It was not until I directed attention to the deplorable condition of the permanent way of the East-West line that an attempt was made by the Commissioner to rectify the trouble. I understand that his excuse for the neglect was that his roadmasters had assured him that the track was in a good state of repair. The Commissioner, if he had ridden over the line, should have realized that he had been badly advised and should have demanded an explanation from the roadmasters. My investigations of the Commonwealth railways system have been confined to what is regarded as the best section of the system - the section between Port Augusta and Kalgoorlie. It would be interesting to make afurther investigation of the other sections, namely from Adelaide to Alice Springs and from Darwin to Bird um and I hope to do so as soon as time permits.

I am positive that the Commonwealth railways system, if it were ever called upon for military use, would be incapable of efficient service, because the rolling stock is unsuitable and the permanent way is not capable of carrying heavy military traffic. In fact the whole situation is most unsatisfactory.

The committee has not been treated with that candour to which it is entitled. I understand that the report of the departmental inquiry contains 177 pages, but the summary of it which has been furnished to honorable members contains only seven pages. It is humanly impossible to condense 177 pages into seven pages, and do justice to the original report. Some statements in the report are condemnatory of the Commissioner. I should like to know what is contained in other portions of the report which have not been revealed to us. I do not intend to allow such an important matter to be conveniently overlooked, and my insistence will continue until we have disclosed the full text of the report and the evidence.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– Has the Minister refused to make the departmental report available?

Mr MAKIN:

– Yes; he refused to table it in the Library. This Parliament has a right to know what is contained in any report on the administration of such an important department as the Commonwealth Railways. Members should know what has been said of the head of the department, whether favorable or unfavorable to him. I hope that the Government will realize the wisdom of appointing as an investigator, a thoroughly competent railway engineer, and that before we are asked to vote further” money for the Commonwealth Railways, we shall have some assurance that the department is controlled by a man who is fully competent to discharge the responsible duties of his office.

Mr COLLINS:
Hume

.- I agree with the right honorable member for Cowper (SirEarle Page) as to the necessity for greater expenditure of public moneys in country districts, particularly in the provision of better postal and telephonic services in outback areas. The far-western district of New ‘South Wales has for many years asked successive Postmasters-General for better facilities, but with little success. If the Government is to pursue a policy of development, it must realize the necessity for improved postal and telephonic services in that area. I do not object to the people living in the more closely populated areas of the Commonwealth being provided with the facilities which they enjoy, but the claims of the more remote areas should not be overlooked. In these places, it is sometimes necessary to travel many miles, often in horse-drawn vehicles or on horseback, in order to secure medical assistance. Should the weather be inclement or the roads be in bad condition because of rain, transport is slow, time is wasted and precious lives may be lost. I hope that the department will do something in this matter.

The right honorable member for Cowper also stressed the necessity for the provision of better water supply and sanitary arrangements at military camps. As it appears that these camps are to be permanent because of the decision to reintroduce compulsory military training, there is all the more reason why they should be made comfortable. I know that the departmental officers are working at high pressure, but in some of these matters action could have been taken years ago. There has been a policy of procrastination. People living in the more closely populated areas where smooth bitumen roads exist, can obtain medical assistance quickly in time of need, but that is not (possible in the far-west. The claims of the outback should be given consideration.

Like other honorable members who have spoken, I am of the opinion that, before any contemplated work is commenced, the proposal should be scrutinized by the Public Works Committee. I am a member of that committee, and I know that its examination of projected works has resulted in the saving of many thousands of pounds. I am sure that if the committee were to examine all proposed undertakings before contracts were let, many thousands of pounds, perhaps even millions of pounds, would be saved.

I was ‘astonished that the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) should have spoken as he did of the work of the Public Works Committee, and of the proposal ‘to erect a hospital at Canberra. If ever a hospital ought to be demolished and a new one erected in its place, it is the hospital in this city. The building which serves as a hospital has been patched and added to for years, and now it constitutes a grave risk in the event of an outbreak of fire. Should such an emergency arise, there would be difficulty in removing all of the patients in time. They should not be subjected to such a risk. Some of them may be in such a condition that their removal would endanger their lives. A new hospital should be provided as quickly as possible. The fact that this city has such a building for a hospital reflects little credit on those who are responsible for the control of the Health Department. The conditions prevailing at the existing rambling old shack are appalling. The lay out of the building is most inconvenient, and adds to the work of the matron, nurses, and all who are called upon to care for the sick and suffering. The National Capital well merits a better hospital.

The Canberra abattoirs are in a definitely disgraceful condition. The arrangements for dealing with stock are such that the attention of -the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals should be drawn to them. About eighteen months ago I visited the abattoirs in company with a number of butchers, and saw the conditions under which animals were treated. The conditions were disgraceful and reflected the utmost discredit on all who were responsible for them. I am credibly informed that similar conditions exist to-day. A new site for the construction of abattoirs has been selected, but, like the new hospital site, it remains untouched. If the existing conditions satisfy either the Minister or the officers of the Health Department, I can only say that such satisfaction is not to their credit. At most stock-yards and slaughter-yards, there is a race for the drafting of animals, but at this wretched place sheep have to be taken bodily and thrown over a fence. In wet weather sheep have to stand up to their middles in water, slush, dirt, and filth. Such conditions would not be tolerated anywhere outside Canberra. If they existed in any other place, the men would go on strike and refuse to slaughter the animals. There are no conveniences for the handling of the ofl al ; these should be provided without delay. The sooner that the abattoirs are transferred to the new site on the railway line, the better it will be. Those responsible should exhibit a more progressive spirit. I ask the Minister to inspect the premises and see for himself the conditions which exist there.

Although the nation is at war, and money is required for defence purposes, other matters should not be entirely overlooked. I am convinced that in the building programme of the Government there is a good deal of unnecessary expense. There is something wrong with an administration which requires policing. The organization and administration of public departments should be such as to make unnecessary the appointment of a committee to examine its activities. Since I have been a member of the Public Works Committee that body has effected savings amounting to about £500,000. That suggests lack of business capacity on the part of the officers. Public officers should be competent to do the work required of them ; there should be no extravagant waste of public money.

The honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) referred to the administration of the Commonwealth Railways. I have travelled from Adelaide to Alice Springs, and I know something of the conditions on the railways there. There is room for an improvement of the housing accommodation provided for railway employees. On the non-stop run from Quorn to Alice Springs shower baths should be provided for women and children travelling on the train. Whether holding first-class or second-class tickets,women and children travelling in that part of Australia in the hot summer weather are entitled to that much consideration. They are doing a national work in developing remote areas, and they should be encouraged in every way possible.

Mr Blain:

– The Minister bows to the Commissioner for Railways ; the Commissioner is the boss.

Mr COLLINS:

– -The honorable member for Hindmarsh referred also to the matter of housing for employees on the East- West line. I have travelled over the line in company with the Railway Commissioner, Mr. Gahan, who pointed out to me workmen’s dwellings that were constructed of compressed straw and plaster. He was very proud of that, and 1 heard the most complimentary remarks passed about them by the employees themselves.

Mr JENNINGS:
Watson

.- I desire to draw the attention of the committee to the deplorable condition of the Prince of Wales Repatriation Hospital at Randwick, and to the urgent need foi the construction of a new hospital. The present building is dilapidated and out of date. Early this year, the Public Works Committee conducted an inquiry, and recommended that a new hospital should be built at a cost of £180,000. However, the State owns the site, and the Commonwealth Government has not yet been able to arrive at an agreement with it regarding the title. I understand that it is necessary to erect a building that will provide accommodation for 200 beds, and I cannot understand why this delay should bo permitted to continue.

Mr Harrison:

– The State Government has made an offer in connexion with this matter, and the Commonwealth Government was about to take advantage oi that offer when war broke out.

Mr JENNINGS:

– I am glad to hear that, because it was generally understood that there was disagreement between the two governments. I hope that the Minister will make a full statement regarding the position.

Mr GREEN:
Kalgoorlie

.- 1 desire to speak on two subjects - one relating to Canberra, and the other to the trans-Australian railway. ‘ Perhaps i ought almost to apologize for raising my voice on anything concerning the Federal Capital, because it should have 75 friends here in this chamber. Matters appertaining to the capital are under our notice every day we are here. On the other hand, the trans-Australian railway is remote from the notice of many honorable members, and perhaps it would be a good thing if members of the Public Works Committee were to travel over the line with a view to ensuring that housing conditions are brought ‘up to date.

For the construction of the Patent Office in Canberra, 631,000 bricks are being imported from Bowral at an additional cost of £2 3s. 8d. a thousand, so that the cost for bricks will be £1,377 more than if local bricks had been used. Moreover, if all of the bricks had been made in Canberra, £4,059 more would have been spent here in wages. Even in Canberra we have an unemployment problem, and an effort should be made to have’ all possible work done in Canberra. The resources of the Territory are few enough, in all conscience. There is li ttle possibility of establishing factories here, because the place is too remote from ports. A least, therefore, we should make here all the bricks that are needed for the building of the Capital. It is not as if it were not possible to make good bricks in Canberra. I speak as something of an authority on the subject, having been a builder for years, and I know that the Canberra brick is probably the best in Australia. The Bowral brick, which is being imported at an additional cost of £2 3s. 8d. a thousand is not nearly of as good quality as the Canberra brick. If Canberra bricks were available for the Patent building, they would have been good enough to take the place of the stone that is now being imported at great expense from Gosford for facing the building. It is unfortunate that it is not possible to erect a building of this kind for less than £116,900. If it were built in Sydney or Melbourne, or any of the other State capitals, I am sure that £80,000 would cover the whole cost. I have not yet had an opportunity to ask for particulars of tenders, or for the names of the tenderers; but, as a practical builder, it seems to me that the cost of building in Canberra is inordinately high. It is hard to understand why this should be. One result is that rents are higher than they ought to be. I have always maintained that a man should be able to pay his weekly rent with one day’s wages. In Canberra, either the people are living in houses of a type too costly for their income, or the cost of building is too high, and I think it is the latter. Some time ago, 2,000,000 bricks were imported into Canberra, and 631,000 have been imported during the last three months. It should have been possible to foresee the demand for bricks, and to have arranged to have them made in Canberra. This is not a mushroom city, built at the whim of speculators wishing to make profits out of rents. The place is being developed according to a plan. The Works Department should know months ahead what work is to be done, and should provide for supplies of bricks from local sources. The output from the Canberra brick-yard is fairly high.. When it was established, it was the last word in efficiency, and it has a daily output of 45,800 bricks, and a five-day week i? worked.

Mr Hutchinson:

– What is the price of bricks in Canberra?

Mr GREEN:

– The price of the local brick is £4 5s. a thousand, while the landed cost of the Bowral brick is £6 8s. 8d. All of the bricks required could be made’ here with the six machines already installed, but another kiln would be required, and it would also be necessary to work additional, shifts. It is some time since I visited the yards, but I take it that the usual Hoffmann kilns are used. These were new 40 years ago, but they have never been improved upon very much. The fire travels in a rotary fashion round the kiln and is never allowed to go out, so that the cost of burning bricks is very low. I hope that another kiln will be installed soon, so that the yard will be able to meet any draw of bricks required. There is not a great deal of building going on in Canberra at the present time, apart from the Patent Office. When the Government carries out its programme for transferring all Commonwealth departments to Canberra, the building programme will have to be speeded up, and the demand for bricks will be greatly increased.

There is no doubt that the high rents in Canberra press heavily upon the people, but that does not excuse those who are in employment from not paying their rent at all. The Auditor-General, in his report, has remarked upon that point. It is recorded that more than 100 persons owe as much as £100 in rent, while 35 owe more than £50. I wonder what would happen to industrialists in Sydney or Melbourne who found themselves £50 in arrears in their rent. If these Canberra people are government servants or workmen in constant jobs, the usual business rules should apply and they should be obliged to pay their arrears. If building costs were lower in Canberra, as I think they could be, possibly such heavy arrears might not have accumulated. 1 have a question on the notice-paper designed to indicate the circumstances of the people who owe this money. If they are persons in receipt of regular incomes, they should be obliged to pay up.

In regard to the brick supply, it is only fair that I should intimate that I have received a note from the department to the effect that the output of bricks at present is slightly larger than the demand and that a reserve is gradually being accumulated. This does not alter the fact that 630,000 bricks were purchased recently from Bowral. The construction of another brick kiln would make such importations unnecessary.

I wish now to discuss the housing conditions on the trans-Australian railway. For many years the dwelling houses of railway employees along this line were a bad advertisement for Australia. Overseas visitors who left their boat at Fremantle and travelled across the continent by this railway must have been struck not only by the poor class of country through which they travelled - which, of course, was not a fair sample of our country districts* - but also by the very primitive houses in which the people were required to live along the trans railway line. They were a disgrace. I admit that conditions have improved somewhat but even the houses at Rawlinna, whilst apparently snug enough from the outside, consist of only four rooms, including the kitchen. This means that it is almost impossible to provide privacy for a man and his wife with a boy and girl in their family. No bathroom is provided. If there is any place in Australia where bathroom accommodation should be provided in every home, it is in the dusty areas of the interior. Fresh water for household purposes is available, but I submit that the allowance should be increased to provide enough for proper baths for the family, and bathrooms should certainly be built. The ceilings of these houses are of matchboard. That method of ceiling was in vogue 50 years ago. It is inefficient, and whenever wind blows, which is frequently, the dust sifts through into the house and falls over the furniture. I do not blame Mr. Gahan for the prevailing conditions, for the Government has restricted him to £12,000 this year for the provision of houses along this line. I am glad that one of the break of gauges of the old days has been eliminated. The speeding-up of the journey from east to west has done a great deal to rehabilitate this service. But, undoubtedly, the higher speeds have caused other difficulties. The light metal ballasting used along the line years ago has had to be strengthened. Railway maintenance work is now engaging the attention of 470 men on. the line, 248 of whom are living in tents. Mr. Gahan proposes to build 24 houses each 24 ft. by 10 ft. Half of the area will be for a kitchen, and the other half will be for bedroom accommodation for .two men. Later another room of 12 by 10 may he built on the other side of the kitchen. But these 24 houses will provide housing for only 48 men, which will mean that 200 will still have to live in tents. As honorable members know, this railway line runs to within 70 miles of the sea at one place and every evening a heavy wind blows in from the coast and causes considerable discomfort to the men in the tents. In the circumstances much more adequate housing accommodation should be provided. At present the men have to suffer considerable hardship. In June last, when I came through on the railway, I found that very heavy rains had left large sheets of water right across the country from Kalgoorlie to Rawlinna. The men had been working away from their camps during the day the rain fell and when they got back they found that their blankets were saturated and their tents were sopping wet. The men are required to pay 2s. a week for the tents until the cost of them, which varies from £3 10s. to £4” 15s. each, is liquidated. I do not complain of that rent, but I contend that far more adequate housing accommodation of a substantial character should be provided. The residences built along that line by the Postmaster-General’s Department for its officers are on a much better scale and are available on a cheaper rental basis well known in the departments. I do not wish to be misunderstood. My chief complaint at the moment is not in regard to rents but in regard to the inadequate conditions of housing. Houses should be provided to replace the existing tents. No doubt many of the men working along that line will be expected to enlist for active service if the war continues for very long. They should, therefore, be given better living conditions than they experience to-day, so that they will be fighting for a home instead of a tent.

The circumstances of the dining-car attendants also deserve consideration. These men are obliged to work 48 hours a week, whereas other employees on the railway work only 40 hours a week. Naturally, the men do not get home very often. Members of Parliament, who have to travel a great deal on the railways, know all the disadvantages associated therewith; but .their emoluments are more substantial than those enjoyed by railway men. The dining-car attendants are endeavouring to have their claim heard by the Public Service Arbitrator but they have had a long and weary wait for their case to be heard. I sincerely trust that they will be given early consideration. They are absent from home for two or three days and nights each week and we all know how enervating constant railway travel is.

I shall not delay the committee any further at the moment, except to return my appeal to the Government to provide better housing for its railway officers. An amount of £100,000 should be set aside for the purpose instead of the ridiculously inadequate sum of £12,000.

Mr WILSON:
Wimmera

– I take this opportunity to discuss several matters of concern to my constituents. The technique being adopted by the Government in these days in connexion with the discharge of public business in this Parliament does not give honorable members many opportunities to discuss matters affecting their constituents.

The first subject with which I shall deal relates to works under the River Murray Waters Act. An amount of £90,000 is being provided under this heading for this financial year. The work to be done will be carried out in collaboration with the State Governments concerned. The country along the river Murray valley has not been developed to anything like its full potentiality. A good deal more settlement is possible along the river. I should like to see a much more substantial sum allocated for river Murray works so that after the war the Government will be in a position to intensify settlement in this area. I subscribe to the policy enunciated by various prominent men of preparing in advance for the peace that must occur, we know not how soon. With that in mind, it is essential that the Government should make proper financial provision. The Imperial Government has stated that it is setting aside a huge sum - something like £5,000,000,000- in order to adjust the nation’s situation to meet the requirements of what it hopes will be a lasting peace. If similar steps are not taken by the Commonwealth Government, Australia will suffer eventually. Proposals along the lines I have indicated have been propounded by certain newspapers in the electorate which I represent, and I ask the Government to give serious consideration to the offer made by a prominent citizen who once served in the Commonwealth Parliament to make his services available in an advisory capacity.

Certain amounts appear in the Estimates under the heading of Health. I take it that they refer- not only to the direct commitments of the Commonwealth in the Australian Capital Territory, but also to its commitments in conjunction with the States. The Government is not doing all that it can do in the interests of the health of the Australian people, and its efforts compare very unfavorably with those of other countries, even of the country with which we are at war. It should give special attention to the needs of our growing young citizens and set aside larger amounts for this national and life-giving work.

As the representative of an important wheat-growing electorate, I cannot fail to refer to the need for more wheat storage facilities in Australia. We should develop a long-range plan similar to what is contemplated by the United States of America and other countries. Grain is produced in the United States of America under conditions comparable to those that prevail . in Australia, and the lead of that country could profitably be followed. Silos should be provided to keep continuously in reserve supplies of wheat sufficient to meet the demands of the world’s markets, irrespective of whether good or bad seasons prevail. This wise plan is known as the “ ever-normal granary system “.

The amount of approximately £12,000 set aside for country aerodromes is surprisingly small and is certainly not sufficient to meet the needs of our commercial and defence air services. I have on more than one occasion made representations to the responsible Minister in an endeavour to secure larger grants for the development of aerodromes in my own electorate. The one at Mildura is of very great importance, because it is used by commercial air services connecting all of the States- and also by the Royal Australian Air Force in connexion with its training activities. Australia is very backward in regard to aviation. On several occasions I have seen machines almost bogged in the mud at Essendon. The Mildura aerodrome suffers greatly from soil erosion during the dry summer months as the result of the strong drafts set up by aeroplane propellers. During the winter season aeroplanes frequently have to land there in what might be described as sheets of water, greatly to the danger and discomfort of passengers and pilots, it is essential that more money should be expended on aerodromes.

Many remote country districts are receiving a raw deal from the Postal Department. In all parts of Australia there are postal buildings in various stages of decay, as the result of age and lack of care. Some wooden buildings are almost falling down because they are riddled with white ants, and many stone and brick buildings are in a tumbledown condition; walls are cracked and buildings are pervaded with dampness. As the result, postal officers have to perform their duties under great disabilities. The amount of business transacted in many of these places fully justifies the provision of better facilities. It cannot be said that the Postal Department is not a profitable concern. Fortunately it pays very well, but unfortunately its revenue seems to be regarded as a tax, rather than as a payment for services. I hope that more money will be set aside for postal works in spite of the oft-repeated statement that funds must be diverted to defence works. The money must be spent sooner or later, and if it is not provided now, it will have to be provided at some future date when the financial state of the country may be equally bad.

As a citizen of the Commonwealth I take a pride in the Capital City, and I am concerned because the standard of buildings erected in Canberra is not so high as was originally intended. Every member of this Parliament should take a keen interest in building operations in the seat of the Commonwealth government, and ensure that it remains an ideal city. There is no reason why it should not be so. Other speakers have referred to the generally disgraceful condition of the Canberra Community Hospital, and I support their remarks. We should have a much better hospital in this new and ambitious city.

I shall refer to other subjects during the general debate.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
I support the remarks of the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Wilson · Maribyrnong} [4.56].

regarding the conditions of country aerodromes. I have visited the Mildura aerodrome during the dry season, and I know that the draft from aeroplane propellers at times makes conditions almost unbearable on all parts of the aerodrome. Every honorable member who knows anything of country conditions should support the representatives of country electorates in their demands for extra financial provision for aerodromes. Just outside the borders of my own electorate is the Essendon aerodrome. More money will have to be expended on that area to make it safe for the large numbers of commercial and training machines which are using it. An .air accident recently occurred in New South Wales, and the authority which inquired into the circumstances of it suggested that it was caused by the lack of sufficient space and proper observation facilities. Similar congestion undoubtedly exists at Essendon. Under present conditions that landing ground can be unsafe, and I believe that another aerodrome should be provided in order that commercial aeroplanes and training aeroplanes may operate in different areas. The honorable member was fully justified in directing the attention of the Government to the condition of the Mildura aerodrome, and I can verify the truth of his remarks.

Another matter that has been raised in this House so often that it has become almost monotonous refers to the housing conditions for employees of the Commonwealth Railways Department, The Government shows a callous disregard for the welfare of its own employees in this service, in spite of repeated representations made on authoritative grounds by honorable members of this House. No doubt it will be said that the heavy wartime expenditure prevents the allocation of funds for this kind of work, but I point out that this matter was raised in 1936-37, 1937-3S, in the early part of the last financial year prior to tho outbreak of war, and again since the declaration of war. The housing conditions of Commonwealth Railways employees have been condemned by independent authorities such as the Commonwealth Public Service Arbitrator and judges, who have personally inspected the line, and the Government’s refusal to remedy them makes one wonder’ whether it is possible to obtain anything like reasonable treatment for the people who are pioneering the outback areas.

Mr Anthony:

– - What does the honorable member suggest should be done?

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– Decent housing accommodation, similar to that ‘ which the honorable member enjoys, should be provided by the Government for these men. Unfortunately, the honorable member takes no interest in these employees of the Commonwealth.

Mr Anthony:

– I asked that question of the honorable member because the employees have informed me that they do not want to pay higher rents, which would be necessary if their housing conditions were improved.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– If the honorable member has any information to give in that connexion he should give it to the committee. No. such declaration has ever been made to me, and to my knowledge men are clamouring for better housing conditions similar to those provided by the Government for its postal employees and on the same rental basis.

Mr Perkins:

– The honorable member for Kalgoorlie (Mr. Green) said that quite a lot had been done already, although there was a lot more to be done.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– So much remains to be done that the Government should institute a special inquiry in order to ascertain what is actually necessary. The honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) and I, and a member of a State parliament saw for ourselves that many of the houses provided for the railway employees are mere hovels and aTe a disgrace to any government. I do not mince words. because I have spoken on this subject often before. There are a few places on the East-West line like Tarcoola, Rawlinna and Cook, where good houses have been provided, but the rents are on a higher basis than for postal workers. The employees located in places in between are treated as though they were not worth consideration. The honorable member for Hindmarsh and I, accompanied by a member of the South Australian State Parliament, Mr. L. Riches, M.L.A., listened to the request of the people at every station along the line, and we know their needs. We put their requests before the department when the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) was Minister for the Interior.

Although that honorable gentleman, in a courteous reply, said that the matter would be looked into and another reply of a similar nature has since been given; apparently nothing has yet been done. On the 1st December, 1938, the honorable members for Kalgoorlie (Mr. Green), Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) and I addressed a joint letter to the then Minister for the Interior, which reads as follows : -

Messrs. N. Makin and A. E. Green, M’s.P., with myself, desire to bring under your notice the very unsatisfactory housing conditions which exist for the employees of the Commonwealth Railways, particularly on the tran*Australian line, with a view to early consideration being given to the whole question.

The housing position, as yon are probably aware, has been the subject of dissatisfaction over a lengthy period of time and it has been unfavorably commented on by presiding authorities of tribunals which have inquired into the wages and living conditions of employees on several occasions over a period of years.

The tent-houses and single men’s quarters are, it is strongly felt, very inferior to’ what should be provided for persons (and in the case of married employees the families of such persons) employed in the provision of essential government services.

On a recent visit to the trans-Australian line made by Mr. Makin and myself, covering a period of approximately ten days, the opportunity was taken to visit many places between Port Pirie and Kalgoorlie during which we personally inspected (in company with the representatives of the unions of. which they are members) the houses and living quarters of many of the employees.

I remind the honorable member for Richmond who said that employees did not want to pay higher rents which would be necessary if housing conditions were improved, that we personally inspected these places and following our dissensions with the people concerned, made representations on this subject. The letter continues -

It was found that everywhere there was much dissatisfaction with the housing provided and that even where dwellings have been provided, as at Tarcoola, Cook and Rawlinna, the combined charges made for rent, water and sanitation are considered higher than they should he called upon to bear.

The tent-houses for which it is generally claimed by the authorities the charges are very low cannot be regarded as reasonable permanent housing provision in any circumstances, and while it is recognized that most if not all the occupants have done their utmost within their means to make them as habitable as possible, they cannot be regarded as anything more than the cause of deprivation of decent living conditions for the- men and wives and children of those concerned.

Those who are on low wages, however, as well as ‘others, express themselves as forced to accept them, rather than incur what they feel is the heavy costs in the circumstances in which they are placed, of rental and other charges which are . levied for the houses provided at Tarcoola, . Cook and Rawlinna.

That ,ia where the dissatisfaction takes place. The employees of the Commonwealth Railways wish to know why they are placed in such an unsatisfactory position as compared with postal employees. The letter continues -

These compare most unfavorably with the houses provided for employees of the PostmasterGeneral’s Department at each of those places, both as to the class and quality and suitability of the accommodation and conveniences provided, and the combined charges for rent, water and sanitation.

Having viewed houses supplied by the railway authorities at each of the places already named and those supplied by the postal authorities, and ascertained the charges made, it is easy to understand the feeling of dissatisfaction . throughout the service when comparisons arc made as they naturally arc in such circumstances.

It is strongly felt by Messrs. Makin, Green and myself that the whole question of living accommodation for those employed in the Commonwealth Railway service should be gone into with a view to it being placed on the same footing with respect to accommodation, conveniences’ provided and charges made as that which prevails for the employees of the Postal Department.

I am sorry to have to read this long letter, but I wish to make it clear that, although the facts have been placed before the present Minister and his predecessor, verylittle, if anything, has been done. That is why I say that the Government is showing’ a .callous disregard of the interests of those employees, their wives and children who live in outlying places on the East- West line. The letter continues -

It is not desired to convey criticism of the Commissioner for Railways or his officers, or to do other than request that the housing question should be considered on as constructive and humane a basis as possible. It is felt that in asking that the housing should be dealt with from now on on the basis that all Government employees in service on the lines should be provided with accommodation and conveniences suitable for the climatic conditions at the same charges as are now in operation for postal employees and may not entail more than 10 per cent, of the departmental payments ;for salaries or wages received, no more than mere justice is being requested.

Postal employees are charged not more than 10 per cent, of their salary for the rent of properties owned by the department ; but rents of employees of the

Commonwealth .Railways. Commissioner are based on a charge of 6 per cent, of the total cost of construction of the ‘houses, included in which is a -very considerable amount of railway freight. The. letter continues -

This is the basis generally asked for and is approved by the people with” whom’ the matter was discussed during the visit at all* placesalong the line.

It is believed that the Commonwealth Commissioner is desirous of supplying suitable accommodation at reasonable prices, but that the system followed of treating the Commonwealth Railways as a purely business undertaking instead of an essential Government service restricts the provision of reasonable living accommodation because it is regarded as an unprofitable or losing enterprise. But it is strongly felt that there is no justification for those employed in the railways being forced to accept, because of these circumstances, less, indeed considerably less, than reasonable housing conditions, and that this state of affair* would be obviated if they were placed on the same basis as those employed in other Commonwealth Government services.

The single men’s quarters and living away from house quarters and equipment supplied and that required and not supplied are also a cause of general complaint which from personal inspection it is felt by Messrs. Makin and myself is fully justified and should at the same time receive attention.

Apart from the dissatisfaction expressed to us by the men concerned, criticism of the deficiencies and class of accommodation provided has been made by independent authorities, and while slight improvement has been made in some cases the real cause of complaint - inferior accommodation and equipment and inadequate protection from the rigorous living conditions - still remain. It was intended by Messrs. Makin, Green and me -to bring the matter forward in Parliament for discussion so that the fullest light could be thrown on the position with a view to having a satisfactory solution devised with the best information available, but the limitation of time given for debate on the Estimates for the Commonwealth Railways Department prevented that course being followed, and as it would appear that no further opportunity will occur of time being given to have the matter fully discussed during the session, it was felt by Messrs. Makin, Green and myself that the matter should be brought under your notice 03’ letter, so that it could be inquired into by you at the earliest opportunity.

Every honorable member should take any opportunity which may arise to see for himself, as closely as we have done, what are the real 1 conditions of these men. The letter continues -

There is another matter relating to housing accommodation which might reasonably be considered at the same time. It is that of provision of housing for railway employees at Port Augusta.

At that place the housing position is acute, owing to many places other than those provided by the Railways Department being rented by railway employees. As a result there is a severe shortage of houses for rental by other persons, and it is felt that if the Government gave favorable consideration and decided to build homes there, the housing problem at Port Augusta would be relieved and the building of the many houses required both there and along the line would enable the cost of construction to be reduced.

It will be recognized by yourself, I think, that it is not possible to deal comprehensively, or even effectively, with this subject in a letter of this kind, particularly as the necessity for housing accommodation extends also to the Port Augusta-Alice Springs line, and there are so many phases of it. But it is very sincerely hoped by Messrs. Makin, Green and myself that sufficient has been conveyed herein, apart from specific information very briefly referred to during this session of Parliament, to enable you to And grounds on which the matter should receive your prompt and sympathetic consideration, with a view to an early solution on the lines suggested herein.

Honorable members will see that the matter was very fully put to the honorable member for Indi when he occupied the post of Minister for the Interior. Although we were assured by the honorable gentleman that consideration would be given to our representations, the result of that consideration is such as to shock me, and to make me feel that one has to speak very strongly in this House before one’s representations are given the consideration they deserve. When, on an earlier occasion, I pointed out the position, the Postmaster-General (Mr. Harrison) interjected that that factor should not be considered in the development of our railways. I agree with the honorable gentleman; but to develop, our railways at the expense of those who pioneer the line is, to say the least, not a humane action. I have no desire unduly to criticize the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, but when I find that he resorts to the utilization of profits on the stores to swell the earnings of the line, I cannot help but do so. I remind honorable members, particularly the honorable member for Richmond, that during the last ten years the profits on the sale of railway stores amounted to no less than £50,000. The profits derived from the sale of stores should be utilized for the betterment of the housing conditions of the employees engaged on the line.

Mr PERKINS:
UAP

– Has any improvement taken place since the letter which the honorable member read was sent to the Minister ?

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– Very little improvement has taken place. The honorable member for Hume has said that some improvement had taken place; all I can say is that it is an invisible improvement. I do not suggest that the present Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) has anything but ordinary humane feelings ; I believe that the inactivity of the department in regard to this matter is mainly the result of his lack of knowledge of the actual plight of these employees. The honorable member for Hindmarsh suggested that this matter should be the subject of inquiry. I suggest that, if possible, the Public Works Committee should undertake the investigation. If, however, such an investigation is outside the ambit of the powers of the Public Works Committee, the matter should be inquired into by a select committee at the earliest: opportunity.

Mr Collins:

– The amount of money required to construct adequate housing accommodation for these employees would not be sufficiently large to make it a matter which might be referred to the Public Works Committee. I think it would if the matter were properly dealt with.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– At least £100,000 would have to be expended for this purpose, and no difficulty would arise in that direction. I do not offer this criticism without having given very careful thought to the matter. Some very illuminating figures were supplied in the South Australian Parliament in answer to a question relative to the cost of housing employees on the Port Pirie to Red Hill line. Mr. Riches, the South Australian member whose electorate embraces Port Augusta, asked these questions -

  1. What authority was responsible for the design, construction, and cost of the houses provided for occupation by railway employees on the section of line between Red Hill and Port Pirie?
  2. At what places have the houses been built, and what is the number at each place?
  3. What is the accommodation in and the cost of the houses at each place?
  4. What is the amount payable for each of these houses for - (o) rent, (6) water, (o) sanitation, (et) other charges?
  5. On what basis arc (a) rents, (6) other charges fixed? .

He received the following replies: -

  1. The Railways Commissioner.
  2. Five houses have been built at Merriton and five at Nurom.
  3. Five main rooms, passage, laundry and bathroom fixed with washtroughs, copper and sink in kitchen, wire doors and windowscreens throughout. At Merriton there is a 1,000-gallon rain water-tank, and water is laid on to the house and garden from the Engineering and Water Supply Department’s mains. At Nurom, where water is not available, two 1,000-gallon rain water tanks are provided. The cost of the houses at Merriton was £480 each and those at Nurom £447 each. The total floor space per cottage is 893 sq. ft., exclusive of front verandah, which is 30 ft. long and 6 ft. fl in. wide. Une above amounts are exclusive of the cost of land.
  4. The weekly rental of the houses at Merriton is 13s. a week, which includes 12s. rent for- house, plus Od. a week for water supplied and Gd. a week for septic tank. The weekly rental of the houses at Nurom is 12s. a week, iis water is not available. There are no other charges.
  5. Rents and other charges are fixed on a basis which covers interest, maintenance, rates and taxes.

Houses ure being built for less than £500. More than 100 houses are immediately required if justice is to be given to the employees of the Commonwealth. i do not subscribe to the view that it is necessary for .money to be harrowed at high rates of interest in order to build those houses. The credit of ‘ the Commonwealth Bank could be used and a fair return obtained. Many think like I do. I have a schedule showing where houses are built, but I shall not read it because facts are on record and they should be sufficient to stir the unsympathetic supporters of the Government. When these matters next come before the committee, unless something is done in the meantime, T shall do my best to test the sympathy and sincerity of honorable members opposite.

I have the details of disbursements of profits from the Commonwealth Rail ways Stores Department. They are as follows : -

No less than £19,000 has been transferred to the trans-Australian railway revenue in the current financial year. It may be a coincidence, but the transference of that amount of money in comparison with the transfers in other, years gives rise to the suspicion that the revenue from the Stores Department was accumulated by the Commissioner in order that it should be paid to the revenue at the time when his reappointment was under review. I doubt whether, on the present population, the Commonwealth railways could ever be made to pay. Certainly they will never pay in our lifetime, and it is absurd to talk about them paying and to deprive employees qf justice because the system cannot be made to pay.

The rest-house accommodation for men who man the trains on the East- West line is ridiculously inadequate. The men have to rest away from their homes, very often in the heart of the desert. I do not like to offer criticism without proving its value, so I shall quote what the Public Service Arbitrator has to say on the subject. On page 13 of his report on his tour of inspection, the Arbitrator commented, inter alia. -

Broadly speaking, the impression created by an inspection of such places was that they were bare barracks equipped with a minimum of conveniences.

Listen to that, “ a minimum of conveniences “ ! The men who are in charge of those trains - drivers, firemen and guards - carry a great responsibility. They have been trying, without success, by reasonable methods to have their grievances redressed in respect of rest-houses. I should, if I were in that position, be inclined to take the risk of stopping the service in order to direct the attention of the public to what they have to suffer.

It seems to be necessary that something like that should be done for the men to get justice. The Arbitrator’s comment proceeds -

That the provision of shower facilities meets normal requirements for the summer months, but the view is expressed of the need for a bath in which hot water can be used in the winter months.

In winter time the winds are freezing, yet there is no provision for these men whose job is a dirty one to have that hot water for bathing.

Embodied in the same paragraph on page 14, the following comment is added : -

At some places the fettler’s tent house type of building is used. There is no verandah on such building and this means the mcn must rest indoors.

In the following paragraph it is stated, inter alia: -

But the view is expressed that the aim of the department should be to provide, as nearly as practicable, facilities which would closely approximate those which might be expected in a medium class, comfortable, well-conducted, public accommodation house.

Surely that is not too much to ask for men who are doing responsible work.

A further extract from page 60 reads as follows: -

The rest-houses provided by the department for the use of the men at these places are poor substitutes for their homes.

There is a comment from an entirely independent authority, if you like. The men will be left in that condition for. a long period unless the Commissioner and the Government are stirred to action. The honorable member for Kalgoorlie (Mr. Green) said that £12,000 has been set aside to deal with this matter. That amount of money may result in improvement of the rest houses if used for that purpose, but it is much too little to effect a redress of all of the grievances respecting housing accommodation.

The question of single men’s quarters was also the subject of representation by the union in the proceedings before the Arbitrator, and on page 11 of the judgment the Arbitrator stated, inter alia -

Generally speaking, the housing accommodation provided by the department for its gangers and fettlers and other miscellaneous employees stationed at wayside places along the line is not what it should be. Mr. Justice Starke, in 1920, expressed the view: But the Commissioner’s accommodation huts are, in truth, makeshift affairs, and the Government must soon consider the permanent housing, of their employees along the trans-Australian railway line. That comment still applies to-day - seventeen years later - to many of the dwellings now occupied.

It will be the same in 100 years’ time if governments of the same political colour as this Government continue to occupy the treasury bench in this Parliament.

Embodied in paragraph 2, on page 12, comment is again directed to quarters for single men -

The accommodation consists of one room, lt contains a stove for cooking in close proximity to which the man has his stretcher for sleeping. In the long hot summer with the temperature about 100 degrees, the juxtaposition of bed and fireplace, which has been used for cooking, has obvious disadvantages.

In paragraph 1 on page 13 of the printed judgment, the following comment is to he found: - - In the annual report for 1019-20, the Commissioner for Railways commented on housing accommodation, as under: -

After travelling over the railway, and hearing the statements and evidence brought forward by my representatives, Eis Honour expressed himself as satisfied that the conditions had precluded the making of permanent arrangements, but he spoke strongly as to the necessity of now providing suitable housing accommodation.

Further reference to this matter is to be found on page 133, and I ask Ministers to listen carefully, because the extract which I am about to read involves the prestige of the Government -

I fear that the prestige of the Commonwealth as an employer must be lowered in the eyes of the discerning travelling public by the sight of the primitive living quarters provided for its employees at many places.

I do not doubt that I could add very much detail. I could go on ad infinitum. I am surprised that no action has been - taken by government supporters. It., is the duty of the honorable member for Grey, in whose electorate many of the men concerned live, to look after their interests. Any honorable member who does not look after the interests of his constituents is. worthy of adverse criticism..

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Martens:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

– The honorable member’s time has expired. ,

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- I have a ‘ request to make’ to the Postmaster-General -(Mr. Harrison). It is this: That the

Australian Broadcasting Commission establish a symphony orchestra in- Perth At ..present there .is an orchestra of eighteen members, but I am advised that, in order to develop that orchestra into a nucleus of a symphony orchestra, 32 instrumentalists are necessary. The music provided by the existing orchestra is good, but it lacks certain features which are necessary in a symphony orchestra. For that reason, when special concerts arc given in Perth, instrumentalists have to be imported from the eastern States. That is neither economical nor satisfactory. Western Australia has a special claim for consideration, because it is two hours off standard Australian time. South Australia is only half an hour off standard time. Whereas five of the six Australian States are able conveniently to listen to concerts broadcast from eastern stations at 8 p.m., it is impossible for listeners in Perth to do so because it is then only 6 p.m. in Western Australia, and from 7 to 8 p.m. essential services are being broadcast from the Western Australian station.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN Order ! The honorable member is not in order in discussing broadcasting programmes on the Works Estimates.

Mr NAIRN:

– The local branch of the Australian Broadcasting Commission is not able to do justice to that State with local performers. Western. Australia is deprived of much of the best music that is produced in Australia and consequently the encouragement of local talent is necessary. I hope that this request will be communicated to the Australian Broadcasting Commission.

Mr McEWEN:
Indi

.- I am disappointed to find in these Estimates so small a sum for the Northern Territory beyond what is required for the most urgent and necessary works. The Assistant Minister (Mr. Perkins) has been good enough to let me see the details of these Estimates. I find that in respect of expenditure on new works more than half of the total will be required to pay for works which have already been approved, and are in course of construction. Less than half of the amount which appears here is- for works which may be truly described as “ new “. An examination of the details discloses that practically every undertaking- of a substantial type that is covered by these Estimates is connected with the extension of defence activities. When there is added to the appropriation, -for that purpose, the sums that are .provided for - such tinkering new works as additions to police stations and administrative offices, it can be said that’ for all practical purposes,’ no money whatever is to be made available for new works in the Northern Territory, with’ the exception of a nominal- sum to commence work on the new hospital at Darwin. I draw attention to the fact that this part of Australia, which is more than six times the size of Victoria, is the one territory whose development is the sole responsibility of the Commonwealth Government. For the development of the rest of the country the State governments are mainly responsible. They constantly complain that the development of areas for which they are responsible is hampered by lack of funds. They point out, not without logic, that the Commonwealth has at its disposal so much of the public moneys of this nation that they are short of funds. There can be no denial of the responsibility of the Australian people to develop the Northern Territory and to see that’ it is made fit to be occupied. From my visit to that portion of Australia, I know that by far the greatest proportion of the land is fit to be occupied; it is capable of’ substantial pastoral and metalliferous production. The” thing which, above all, has hampered its development and occupation has been the reluctance of successive governments to make moneys available for ordinary developmental services such as roads, water supplies, education and hospital facilities. While I was the Minister responsible for. the administration of this territory, I visited it and studied on the ground a report which had been submitted by a committee appointed by my predecessor in office, the honorable member ‘ for- Gippsland (Mr. Paterson). As the result of that report, and of my subsequent recommendations, the Government of the day. announced in this Parliament about twelve months ago, that there. would be substantial alterations of policy in:connexion with the future, development and administration of the Northern Territory. . Those alterations of policy covered proposals for the extension of existing stock routes, the provision of additional stock routes and water supplies, extensions of road development and a system of advances to settlers. I shall not occupy the time of the com>mittee by referring in detail to that policy, but shall content myself by reminding the Ministers at the table, who were my colleagues then, that that policy envisaged the expenditure during the next five years of £640,000 for the development of the Northern Territory. The Estimates before us include a mere £36,000 for the whole of the services to which I have referred.. Almost the whole of the. money will be required for ordinary maintenance services. The Government is not standing up to its responsibility for the development of the Northern Territory. Unless this portion of the Commonwealth is made fit to be occupied Australia will stand charged with keeping it vacant and not utilizing it. By not developing it we are not only debarring the coloured races and foreigners from occupying it - and we are all in agreement with the White Australia policy - but we are also displaying an unwillingness to assume the responsibility for its development and occupation by Australians. That is am entirely indfensible state of affairs. The honorable member for Gippsland, when Minister in charge of the Northern Territory, introduced a system of subsidies ir respect of the carriage of materials necessary for its development. It was also contemplated that a system of advances to settlers in the Northern Territory should be inaugurated. Under the present financial proposals of the Government almost all of the assistance to settlers which was previously given by means of freight subsidies has been abolished, and no direct advances to settlers in accordance with the policy decided upon by a previous Government have taken its place. The only portion of this continent in which there exists no provision whatever for the granting of financial assistance to Australians who desire to take up and develop land is a territory for which the Commonwealth Government is responsible. The excuse that substantial sums of money must necessarily be diverted to the prosecution of the war is not a sufficient answer. If that were a sufficient justification for not allocating money for the development of the Northern Territory, the States should cancel for the period of the war their forms of assistance to settlers. We find, however, that every State government is continuing with its normal developmental policy, and is granting assistance to settlers and providing roads, water supplies and other facilities for them. Notwithstanding that it has much greater financial resources than are in the possession of the State governments, the Commonwealth Government alone claims that this work cannot be proceeded with because of financial stringency. I hope that the Government will not permit this state of affairs to continue. It ha3 in its possession a most comprehensive report . on a land settlement policy for this territory. Partly as the result of that report, efficient officials have been appointed to administer its policy of development, but scarcely. a penny is being made available to implement that policy. I strongly urge a review of the Government’s Estimates in regard to the Northern Territory.

The aborigines and half-castes in the Northern Territory are the responsibility of the Commonwealth Government. When I visited Alice Springs about eighteen months ago I found there a half-caste institution situated a mile or two out of the town. It consisted of the old telegraph station which, judging by its appearance, was built long before I was born. That old building is the only shelter provided for the halfcaste population at Alice Springs. There I saw a state of affairs which honorable members will find it difficult to believe. - 120 half-caste children, and 13 or 14 adult full-blooded and half-caste women, the parents of some of the young halfcaste children, living in that most deplorable old building, which, when it rained heavily, took in the water almost as if there were no roof at all. The dormitories were a disgrace.

Mr BARNARD:

– Why did not the honorable member initiate reforms when he was Minister?

Mr McEWEN:

– I did initiate reforms, and my complaint is that they were not carried out. As I have said, 120 children were being accommodated in two dormitories, where they slept on two sets of wire mattresses. The first set, which accommodated 36 children, stood lft. 9in from the floor, and 2ft. 4in. above their heads as they lay was another set of mattresses accommodating another 36 children. The building was roofed with corrugated iron, and had a concrete floor, so that it must certainly have been too hot in summer and almost unbearably cold in winter. I know many stud stock breeders who would not dream of crowding their stock in the way that these half-caste children were huddled in this institution at Alice Springs. After I had inspected the place, I recommended to the Government that a new institution be built; that it should be removed from the present site, and taken out a few miles where facilities could be provided for the inmates to accustom themselves to some useful work on a cattle property so that they would be fitted to take jobs later on. I prepared tentative plans and estimates, and submitted them to the Government. To-day, I see that there is not one penny on the Estimates to correct the most deplorable state of affairs that exists at Alice Springs. It is a shameful thing to allow it to continue. At Darwin, I found that about 50 halfcaste girls, ranging from children three, or four years old to young women, were accommodated in a small weatherboard cottage of not more than five or six rooms, the kind that normally would be regarded as suitable, perhaps, for a minor official, his wife and two children. Not only were these 50 girls living in this place, but the building also served them for a school. The dividing walls had been torn out, and stretchers were packed over the whole of the floor as closely as they could be put. For their schooling, the girls huddled on a narrow strip of verandah which was not accommodating beds, and there they were taught. I have since been informed that even that building has been taken over by the administration or the defence authorities, I do not know which, and the girls are being accommodated - under what conditions I do not know - in the compound for aborigines. That is the very opposite of what has been agreed upon as the proper care of half-caste people, the idea being to raise their status by keeping them away from the aborigines. I could not, without being un parliamentary, express the shame I feel that no money has been provided on the Estimates this year to correct that state of affairs. In the school at Alice Springs, 120 children, with their three teachers, are accommodated in a building which consists of two rooms, each 30 feet square, and a verandah.

Mr Holloway:

– And 80 per cent, of them are suffering from sore eyes.

Mr McEWEN:

– That is probably correct. The verandah has a galvanized iron roof only 8 feet high and 30 to 40 children sit in class under this verandah in the intense heat of a Central Australian summer. It is not unknown for children to collapse while in class. I appreciate the financial difficulties of the Government during wartime, but there are some things which no financial stringency can excuse, and included among them are the things to which I have just drawn attention.

The financial proposals of the Government, as revealed in :these Estimates, are a complete abrogation of the policy placed before Parliament by me twelve months ago. The Northern Territory, which is the sole responsibility of the Commonwealth, is to be the only part of Australia where no developmental work is to be carried on during the war. This is the only part of Australia in which a man who wishes to take up a block of land is unable to get financial assistance from the Government, and it is the only place where there exists no provision to enable a working man to obtain financial assistance to build his own home. Comparisons are odious, but it is impossible to refrain from reminding honorable members that only £36,000 is provided for such work as the construction of stock routes and the -provision of water supplies for pastoral purposes in the whole of the Northern Territory, with an area of 500,000 square miles, whilst last year no less than £46,000 was expended in the maintenance of parks and gardens in Canberra, and £40,000 is to be made available for the same purpose this year. This is not even for the extension of the parks and gardens, but only for the clipping of the hedges and the mowing of lawns, &c.

Mr Holloway:

– There are no votes to be won in the Northern Territory.

Mr McEWEN:

– There . is a good deal in what- thehonorable member says. There’ is’ ‘not a constant stream of people going’ . through the territory to voice their objections to the existing state of affairs’, and- to -protest against the way in which theland is beingheld vacant.- I deliberately say that it is being held vacant. Not only is the. Government refraining from making any useful contribution towards its development, but it is deliberately withholding the lands from selection. Two and a half years ago when my colleague, the honorable member for Gippsland (Mr. Paterson) was Minister for the Interior, he appointed the Payne-Fletcher Committee to report on a policy, for the development of the Northern Territory. It was arranged that, until the report was presented and a . decision . reached on it, pastoral lands in. new areas should be made available upon yearly leases only. That policy, I agree, was right. After the committee had reported I travelled through the country and the Government subsequently revised its policy, and announced, about a year ago, that the country which had not been available for selection would be made available at once. Unfortunately that has not been done.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr FROST:
Franklin

.- Ever since I have been a member of this Parliament I have heard ex-Ministers for the Interior criticize their predecessors because nothing had been done to develop the Northern Territory. The honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) did nothing in that connexion while he was in office as Minister for the Interior.

Mr Mahoney:

– That is so.

Mr McEwen:

– If the honorable gentleman says I did nothing, his statement is completely untrue.

Mr FROST:

– That remark is offensive to me and I ask that it be withdrawn.

Mr McEwen:

– I withdraw the word “ untrue “ and substitute “ inaccurate “.

The honorable member for Denison interjecting,

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).I warn the honorable member for Denison (Mr. Mahoney) that he must not continue to interject.

Mr FROST:

– On this occasion, as on previous occasions, when the Estimates have been under consideration, we find an ex-Minister for the Interior criticizing his successor in office.

Mr McEwen:

– I criticized the Government, not the Minister.

Mr FROST:

– The- honorable gentleman was a Minister for as long as he could remain in the Government, and I think he would be glad to become a. Minister again.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I ask the honorable member for Franklin, to confine his remarks to the subject before the Chair.

Mr FROST:

– A good deal of money has been expended in the Northern Territory, but much more could have been spent there with advantage and also, for that matter, in other parts of the Commonwealth.

The honorable member for Indi referred to the new compound at Darwin, at which half-castes and full-blooded aborigines were accommodated. The old compound is now being used for hospital purposes. The new compound should have been located miles away from where it is. It is too near the aerodrome, where 300 or 400 of our young men are to be trained for the Air Force. It is a disgrace to the Government that the compound should be located so close to the aerodrome. It is well known that many of the half-castes and aborigines in the compound suffer from venereal disease. Some of them are in a bad state. The only mark that distinguishes the diseased persons from others in the compound is the red trimmings on their clothes. It is a disgrace to the Government that that compound should he located as close to the aerodrome as it is, seeing that we are sending our boys there for Air Force training.

Mr McEwen:

– The honorable member is making a grave reflection upon our young men.

Mr FROST:

– I am simply stating the facts. If the honorable member for Indi cares to close his eyes to the facts, I do not intend to do so. He was partly responsible, I suppose, for placing the compound where it is.

Mr McEwen:

– The honorable gentleman is again wrong.

Mr FROST:

– If that is so, I withdraw the remark. I do not desire to do any honorable member an injustice. I. reiterate, however, that we should not be sending our boys into a training camp so close to the filthy compound in which these natives and half-castes are living.-

Mr McEwen:

– The honorable member does not seem to have much confidence in our young men.

Mr FROST:

– I have reared a family, and I try to see things as they are. Every body must realize that, as the compound is so close to the Air Force camp, our boys will be subjected to serious temptations with which they should not be confronted. A young and innocent boy may. make a mistake and suffer for it all his life. He may even be ruined. The honorable member for Indi, while he was in office, should have taken steps ‘ to remove the compound from its present site. We should not set such a temptation in the way of our young men. Parents may have brought their boys up strictly only to find that, at a time when they are serving their country, they are led astray. The natives and half-castes should be accommodated many miles away from Darwin and not close to the centre of the town.

A complaint was made by the honorable member for Indi that a considerable sum of money was being expended in connexion with the parks and gardens of Canberra.. In my opinion, the money, generally speaking, is being wisely spent, but as a practical farmer, I am well aware that some of the parks and gardens away from the centre of the city are being starved. In view of the fact that a considerable number of unskilled unemployed persons are still to be found in Canberra, I submit that the Government should give them work in maintaining and cultivating the parks and gardens.

The Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron), in referring to the report of the Public Works Committee on the new hospital in Canberra, said that too much money was to be expended on the project. The committee went to a great deal of trouble in preparing its report. It obtained evidence from some of the most competent medical men and architects in Australia. The Minister for Health (Sir Frederick Stewart) said that the. report was one ofthe best ‘ reports ever. made. We visitedthe Canberra Hospital . in . the course . of our, , inquiries, and in my opinion theplace is a disgrace to the Australian Capital : Territory. The first portion of . thehospital. was :. built 25 years ago of wood and iron.. Additions ofsimilar- material have been made, to it from , time to time until ithas become altogether unsuited for the, purposes for which it is being used. During the. very hot weather early this year, when the bush fires were raging, . the ‘hospital management passed through a . period of great anxiety, for it was realized, that if any part of the ramshackle structure caught fire, it was unlikely that any of the patients in it would be able to get out alive. The Leader of the Country party expressed the view that the proposal of the Public Works Committee was too elaborate and extravagant.’ I do not know on what information he based his opinion, or whether he would like’ to see a niggardly policy adopted, but in my opinion the committee’s report was amply justified.

The honorable gentleman did not raise any objection to the verylarge expenditure that has been incurred in connexion with the remodelling of Government House at Tarralumla. A thoroughly wellequipped hospital could . have been built in Canberra for the amount of money that has been expended, unreasonably, in my opinion, atYarralumla. I suggest that a committee of honorable members should be appointed to’ investigate the expenditure at Tarralumla,for, after all, the taxpayers’ money is involved. The residence was remodelled ; because it was expected that a member of the Royal Family would be coming to Canberra as Governor-General. I believe that His Royal Highness the Duke of Kent would have been quite satisfied with the house’ as it was. When some honorable members of this Parliament were in England a year or, so ago, they visited many private homes. I had the honour ‘to be ‘ among the number. We were invited to many private homes, including some residences of members of the Royal “Family. We found “that their homeswere not lavishly decorated. As a matter of fact, their home life was of quite a simple standard In these circumstances, I.feel quite con-: fid en in saying that: the Duke of Kent would have been quite satisfied with Government House at Yarralumla as it was. Apparently some people in this country thought that they would be able to “curry favour” with the new Governor-General by having the residence renovated. In my opinion there has been a serious waste of public money in connexion with that work. If the old house had been demolished altogether, two new residences of the highest standard for special purposes, or 150 cottages for public servants and other people, could have been built with the money that has been wasted at Yarralumla.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 8 p.m.

Mr FROST:

– The Leader of the Country party referred to the hospital at Hobart. The designs for that hospital and the proposed Canberra community hospital were prepared by the same architect and the fact that the Hobart hospital cost about £450 a bed as against an estimated £1,000 a bed for the Canberra hospital does not afford a fair comparison. The cost of a hospital is not governed so much by the number of beds in it as by the expense of X-ray equipment, operating theatres and other scientific apparatus. The Public Works Committee visited two hospitals in Melbourne, one of which cost £1,600 a bed and the other £1,100 a bed. By comparison, the cost of the proposed Canberra hospital of less than £1,000 a bed would be reasonable. An additional factor to be considered is that extensive excavations and other preparatory work would have to be carried out on the site of the Canberra hospital.

I refer now to the Government’s treatment of country post offices. Whenever, honorable members ask the PostmasterGeneral to provide new post offices, the only reply they receive is, “I cannot do anything. All the money is needed for defence works “. When the Leader of the Country party was Postmaster-General he visited New Norfolk, in Tasmania, where a new post office was badly needed. The proposal had been to renovate the existing building, but when the honorable gentleman saw it, he said that he would not waste any money on renovations because the building was not worth the trouble and expenditure. The post office, an old wooden structure, had been built over a well about 80 years ago. In winter time the furniture, fittings and bed clothes in the dwelling section were always damp, and the honorable gentleman said that the only thing to do was to erect a new building. Even at that time, the office was inadequate for the needs of the population, but since then the newsprint industry has been established in the district. The company has installed machinery, fittings, and buildings worth more than £1,000,000, and will bring another 1,000 people to the locality; it proposes to build 300 homes for its employees. It is obvious, therefore, that the post office is not big enough to cope with the volume of business transacted there and the Postmaster-General has admitted that, but he says that there is not sufficient money available to provide a new building ; that the best that can be done is to renovate the existing one. Any money spent on renovations will he wasted, and the Postmaster-General is aware of that. I point out that £1,000,000 is being expended in Sydney on additions and renovations to the General Post Office, which is regarded as one of the best post office buildings in the Commonwealth. That huge expenditure is not warranted at present and, even if it were, the smaller States should not be called upon to suffer in order that practically the whole of the available money should be spent in the big cities. A warden in the New Norfolk district told me that the people would not object to waiting a few months if a new post office were to be built, but that it would be only a waste of money to repair the existing one. But the Government repeats its parrot cry that all the money is needed for defence purposes.

New Norfolk is not the only country centre in Tasmania that is not receiving fair treatment. Post offices all over the State are in need of replacement or repair, but nothing has been done to them for years. Six or seven years ago, the Government’s cry was that money could not be made available because of the depression. Today the war is used as the excuse, and, when the war is over, some other excuse will be found. I do not know how long the smaller States will suffer the persecution of this Government, but I am fairly confident that a Labour government will be returned to office after the next elections, and, .in that event, I trust that <the bulk of the expenditure on postal works will not be incurred in Sydney and Melbourne as at present. One post office in the electorate which I represent is over 100 years old ; it even had the old stocks, relics of the convict days, in front of it. When Sir Archdale Parkhill was PostmasterGeneral, he visited that post office and said that a new one was required. Since then his place has been taken in this Parliament by the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender), who is a good sport and who, I feel sure, will honour the promise made by his predecessor. The Government has said that it wishes to distribute expenditure in the country districts and encourage people to engage in rural industries. One way in which it can give that encouragement is to provide conveniences for country residents. Shire councils do everything possible to encourage people to settle outside the city areas, but the Commonwealth Government is not doing its fair share in the smaller States. I trust that it will ensure that the bulk of the money set aside for postal purposes is not expended in Victoria and New South Wales. The greater part of the defence expenditure must be incurred in those big States, but the other States have contributed to those funds, and the least that the Commonwealth can do is to provide employment by building a few new post offices and renovating some of the older ones. Tasmania depends a great deal upon the apple industry and this year it will not be able to export very much of the crop, with the result that unemployment will be created. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to give that State a better deal than it has been given in the past.

Mr LANE:
Barton

.- In common with other honorable members, I represent an electorate in which there are a few post offices. At one of those offices, approximately £600 is paid out to old-age and other pensioners every fortnight. That office is in the suburb of Hurstville, which to-day almost ranks as the third largest business centre in the- New South Wales metropolitan area. The post office officials in that suburb have been attempting to devise a convenient way in which to make the pension payments expeditiously. The whole structure could be altered to provide necessary facilities without much trouble; but the main difficulty at present is that the postmaster’s residence is over the ‘office section, with the result that the officers have to work in inconvenient and cramped quarters. Because of that, the authorities decided recently to rent a large hall in which the pension payments could be made. But several armed hold-ups have occurred in New South Wales when postal officials have had to carry money through narrow lanes, and the new departure at Hurstville puts the officials in a dangerous position. The Deputy Director of Posts and Telegraphs, who inspected the building, agreed with me on that point. He said that it was wrong to allow postal officers to take the responsibility of carrying £400 or £500 between the post office and the hall where pensions are now paid. I told him that if the arrangement were allowed to continue and any postal employees were shot, the. blame would rest upon him. I am glad to be able to say that I was able- to persuade him to put on an additional hand. The Hurstville post office is probably dealing with a larger volume of business than any other post office in the suburban area. I shall leave the other matters relating to the administration of the postal department for direct representation to the responsible officials in Sydney.

One thing which prompted me to address the committee on this item was the extraordinarily harrowing tale told by the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwan), a former Minister- for the Interior, of the conditions under which half-castes and aboriginals live in the Northern Territory. He even went so far as to say that many sheep on stud farms are better housed than the aboriginals in the Northern Territory. What a remarkable statement for a gentleman who, for some considerable time, had these poor unfortunate people under his control. I may point out that whereas last year £286,000 was voted for the Northern Territory only £239,000 was expended; In other words, an unexpected’ balance of. nearly £50,000 was left at the close of the year. Could not the greater part of that large amount of money have beenutilized -for . . the -betterment - of the ‘. housing . conditions of those unfortunate . people? ; Thehonorable member for Indi . could have authorized the expenditure of that, -moneybyastroke ofthe pen.- I.feel sure that whenhe wasin office,- he: wascarefultosee that ‘ the’ pastoralists andprimaryproducers of Victoria, and the. wealthy-‘ farmers - of this’ country . got all the’moneytheyneeded. - ‘iHis action . inrising-. in his ‘place in-.this chamber to-night and saying:”My heartbleeds ; Iam . aching alloverbecause, when I was MinisterfortheInterior,Iwas unable to do anythingfor these poor people”, contrasts withhisinaction when inoffice.I directtheattention of the. honorablememberforthe Northern’ Ter- ‘ ritory. (Mr. Blain) to the factthat these Estimates disclose that; although £14,000 was’ provided for metalliferous mining in the Northern Territory lastyear; only £3,991 was “expended. Wehave often listened to the honorable member recounting the hardships of those engaged in the mining industry in the remote parts of the Commonwealth. I confess that I am amazed that so little of this vote should have been expended. Every reconstruction of the composite Government was accompanied by a change of the ministerial head of” the Department of the Interior. It seems as though that portfolio is” a sort of apprenticeship course to be undergone ‘by aspirants to higher honors in the Cabinet. I . have teen in this Parliament for; nearly nine years, being one of the . pioneers of the 1931 elections. I have been here” long enough–

Mr Pollard:

– Too long.

Mr LANE:

-Nevertheless, the Labour party has remained in opposition ever since I came here, and it will remain in opposition for another nine years unless it- ean evolve a better policy than that which it now supports/

The CHAIRMAN:

-The honorable membermust -confine his remarks to’ the Works Estimates.

Mr LANE:

-I ‘ampointingout how,’ in “.the -past, ‘the . administration of the Department of the Interior has been sadly neglected. I have no doubt that it has suffered ‘as the result of the long procession of ministerial heads who remained in charge of it for comparativelyshort periods. -Immediately a new Minister was appointed to . the . post: hefoundit necessary to visit Darwin, accompanied . by a cavalcade of attendants. Invariably the new Minister returned full of enthusiasm as to what he would do for the development of the huge area, under-, his control. I suppose all of them claim that they did not remain in charge of the department long enough to give full effect to their proposals.

Mr CHAIRMAN:

– I again remind the honorable member that he must confine his remarks to the Works Estimates.

Mr LANE:

– I hope that my remarks, will spur on the present Minister for the Interior. (Senator Foll) so that some real Work will be done in Darwin and it’will quickly become a town of which we may be proud. , When a former Country party representative in . this House was appointed to the important post of Administrator of the Northern Territory, 1 thought that much good would follow. At leastIthought he would know what to do with this wonderful country. . We find, however regretfully we have to admit it, that he has done no more than his predecessors, having regard to the large sums of money that are provided each year in this vote. I am amazed at the temerity of the honorable member for Indi in rising- in his place in this chamber and telling such a plaintive story about the plight of the aborigines in the Northern Territory. I have no doubt that the honorable member knows more about sheep than children; otherwise he would have seen that the children of the settlers in the Northern’ Territory were better treated when he had the. opportunity to do so. How could the honorable member possibly justify an unexpended balance of £50,000 in the vote for the Northern Territory when he knew that conditions were so bad that 48 children were living in one cottage?

Mr McEwen:

-The honorable member knows perfectly well that the vote can be expended only for the purpose set out. in the Estimates.

Mr LANE:

– I remind the honorable gentleman that provision is included in the Estimates for buildings, sites, &c. Could not money have been expended under that item? The honorable gentleman also told us a pitiful story of the little wire mattresses which were too hot for , the children to sleep on in summer and tpo cold in winter. Had he asked the Parliament to agree te the utilization pf portion pf that, unexpended balance forthe alleviation of distress in the Northern Territory,, approval would have been gladly given.

I wish now to refer to conditions in Canberra’.- -The Government is acting very unwisely in allowing living costs in Canberra- ‘to soar to an inordinately high level. The Government should establish a- home-building branch of the Department of the Interior in order to provide reasonable opportunities for the people here to acquire their own homes. I know that objections may be raised against Government interference in the domain of private enterprise;- but a government might easily consider the establishment of a government brickworks in. order to make bricks available at a fair price. I believe’ that’ the price of everything in this, territory is from 25 per cent, to 50 per cent, higher than in other parts of Australia. What steps is the Government taking to deal with this position? Government brickworks should be used as a yardstick to measure the fairness of the price of building materials which figure so largely in the high cost of living in Canberra. If the prices of building materials were kept down to a proper level houses costing £2,000 could be built here for not more than £1,400. We have had only recently a glaring instance of price fixation and exploitation in connexion with the supply of bricks in the metropolitan area of Sydney. It required a royal commission to deal with that position. There is an alarming shortage of houses in Canberra. For eighteen months I tried unsuccessfully to get a house for a man who has had to sleep in the back room of a newsagent’s shop. Apparently the only way to get a house in Canberra is to slip in quietly when another tenant decides to vacate it. . Those engaged in private employment’ in Canberra have to give way, to the claims of the public servants in the matter of housing accommodation. If 200 houses were constructed in Canberra they would be occupied within a week.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– And the tenants would probably be thrown out the following week for non-payment of back rent.

Mr LANE:

– There should be no necessity in Australia to throw people out of their homes. I do not know whether the honorable member for . Barker (Mi-. Archie Cameron) has ever interested himself in such matters, but frequently my intervention has been sought to prevent evictions in Sydney, and in nearly, every case” I have succeeded either in enabling the family concerned to retain its dwelling or in inducing the State Government to make other provision for it.

The report of the Public Works Committee on the Canberra Hospital represents another blunder by that committee. It is proposed to reduce the number of beds provided in the projected hospital by 47. ‘

Mr Francis:

– Does the honorable member know why?

Mr LANE:

– I have read the reasons advanced in the report, but I do not think they are sufficient to warrant the Government in accepting that particular recommendation. , The Public Works Committee is always imbued with the idea that its job consists in reducing, the estimate of the cost of works produced by experts. In this case, the only way that the committee saw in which the estimated costs could be reduced was by a reduction of the number of beds. Members of the committee pat themselves on the back for that sort of thing.

Mr Francis:

– The honorable member has not read the report, or does not understand English.

Mr LANE:

– I have read the report. The final paragraph reads -

If the recommendations of the committee are adopted, it is estimated that the savings effected on the proposal as submitted will amount to approximately £00,000.

The committee offered the conclusion that the original estimate of 147 beds for the hospital was over-liberal, and expressed itself as being satisfied that all legitimate hospital needs of Canberra could be met by providing about 100 beds in the new building, exclusive of those beds that would be available in the separate isolation block. Another paragraph of the committee’s report commented on a “lamentable lack of collaboration “ between the architect and the’ management of the hospital, as much as to suggest that the parties were not on’ friendly terms. I doubt whether the committee even had the plans proposed for the new hospital before it.

Mr Francis:

– We did.

Mr LANE:

– The members of the committee would be too bewildered to be able to read a plan. A hospital for Canberra is the last thing on which a Public Works Committee should suggest economy which consists in substantial reduction of the number of beds to be provided. The committee made its report on an estimate that the population of Canberra would reach 17,000 in ten years and 20,000 in fifteen years, the present population being given at 10,500. The committee should have estimated a population of 17,000 in five years, not ten years, because it should have acted on the premise that the Government would meet its obligation to transfer additional departments to the Federal Capital. Instead of that, the committee played right into the hands of the Government, because it is the policy of the Government to use as an excuse for its failure not to bring more public servants to Canberra the fact that accommodation is lacking. The’ Public Works Committee is not the only body of men that inquires into conditions in’ Canberra. Generally speaking, all honorable members of this Parliament do that. I, for instance, have had a great deal to do with the housing problem, because I have often been asked to do what I can to obtain housing for people, in many cases for my own constituents. Whenever I approach the officials in charge of housing arrangements in the Department of the Interior, I find that the list of those wanting houses is ever-growing. One official told me that there was sufficient demand to warrant the building of 1,000 new cottages. A week or so after that, a Minister in this chamber declared that only 250 cottages were required. Melbourne has a throttling grip on Canberra. That is why no more departments arc coming here, and why insufficient homes are being provided. If the homes were available, the Government would have no excuse for keeping Commonwealth departments in Melbourne. What surprises me is that members of this Parliament have stood this policy for so long.

Mr Ward:

– Tell us about the Northern Territory.

Mr LANE:

– I know something about the Northern Territory - enough to know that it is badly mismanaged. I have not needed to hear what the honorable member for the Northern Territory (Mr. Blain) says about the territory to know that. A relative who lived at Darwin for a long time told me that the supervision of civic affairs in that town was wretched. The failure of the Government to have suitable accommodation available for passengers on the Empire flying boats was disgraceful. Australia lost its good name.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– I am deeply indebted to the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis), who is Chairman of the Public Works Committee, for the lucid explanation that he gave this afternoon of the functions of that committee. What he said was further justification for my contentions earlier to-day in respect of the committee’s report on the Canberra Hospital. My arguments then revolved around these points : First, that the committee must discover whether a certain work or building is justified; secondly, whether any plans submitted to it will give effect, to the desire of the Government or the department concerned in respect of the work under consideration; and thirdly, (.hat the committee,, unless it has power to go into the question of costs - that was the main point that 1 raised this morning - is not fulfilling all of the functions that this committee expects of it. I referred to the estimates of the cost of the Canberra Hospital, and compared those estimates with the actual cost of the Hobart General Hospital, which is the most up-to-date hospital in Australia, if not in the world, the cost of which worked out at between £500 and £600 a bed,’ as against the proposed cost of £1,000 a bed for the Canberra Hospital.

Mr Frost:

– The architect who designed the Hobart Hospital also prepared the design of the Canberra Hospital.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

-That may be, but it is a question of the builder, not the architect. The report of the Public Works Committee also states that the cost of a nurses’ home at the Canberra Hospital would be £26,000 for 55 nurses - £500 each! The chairman of the committee told us that the committee has’ no power to go into the question whether the costs of building in this territory are justified.

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– But it has.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– That is what I understood the honorable member for Moreton to say. It is not merely the job of the committee, or it should not be, to have an estimate placed before it iu respect of a building. The committee should have power to go into the question of whether the figure contained in that estimate is justified. After that, there is another job. There should be some check by the committee to see, when the work is constructed, what variation there has been between the estimate and the actual cost.

Mr Gregory:

– The committee has no power to do that.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– So I believe, but it is vital that the committee should have that power if it is to function effectively. I do not wish to say much on this matter. AH- of the points that I raised this morning were effectively dealt with by the honorable member for Moreton. That is the way, to my mind, that the committee should function. It should go- right through from the time a building is projected until such time as it is completed, and let us know whether the estimates are actually borne out by the results achieved.

Mr BLAIN:
Northern Territory

– It is pleasing to note that honorable members are definitely interested in the Northern. Territory. I was particularly pleased to hear the remarks of the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) who was previously Minister in charge of this territory. I congratulate him on the policy that he enunciated, which, unfortunately, was emasculated by the “ inner group “ of the Cabinet. It is most unfortunate that that inner group should have defeated the purpose of a Minister who was trying to do something for this neglected portion of the continent. Nevertheless, of all the Ministers who have been in charge of the Northern Territory during the last twelve or fifteen years, he is the one least likely to receive a good reception should he return there. He was sincere in his desire to do something for the Northern Territory, but unfortunately he was able to do very little. I have tried to break down the feeling against him among my constituents by explaining that he was not allowed to do what he desired to have done. The Minister who would receive a welcome in the Northern Territory is the Assistant Minister, Mr. Perkins, who is now1 at the table. The people of the territory agree that “At least he was decent; he always referred us to his secretary.”. In this connexion it is interesting to read of the expectations of the people of the Northern Territory after the visit of the honorable member for Indi. In the Northern Standard, of the 26th August, 1938, there appeared a report from which I extract the following paragraph : -

page 2373

MOKE POWER FOR ADMINISTRATOR

Minister Delegates AUTHORITY

Decentralizing Control

An endeavour to retain or to centre the Government of the Northern Territory in the territory, and to leave power of decision whereever possible, with the Administrator and officials who are on the spot, is the purpose of revolutionary changes which have been made by the Minister for the Interior (Mr. J. McEwen) in the Administration of the Northern Territory,

Mr. McEwen said that iu future far greater powers of initiative and control will be vested in the Administrator, and control of the Northern Territory by (Canberra will be restricted to matters affecting Government policy and finance.

The Administrator was not given that power. Indeed, he is not even in charge of the Works Department at Darwin within half a mile of the Residency.

Mr BLAIN:

– No; I have made that clear to the people of Darwin. The “ inner group “ of the Cabinet destroyed the programme mapped out by one of their colleagues. All along I have regretted that the Administrator was not given that power, but during the last hour or so my belief in him has been shaken. This morning I referred to the need for the proper planning of Darwin so that the workers there may be provided with homes: I understand that the Administrator was in favour of the City Planner of Brisbane visiting Darwin to prepare a plan for the layout of the town. I interviewed the Administrator at the Residency, and I understood that he would wire the Lord Mayor of Brisbane suggesting that he get in touch with the City Planner. He promised to do so. In the absence of any evidence that that officer was likely to proceed to Darwin, I took the bit in my teeth and sent a wire to him. Tb-day, I received his reply stating that he had received no communication on the subject. Either the Administrator is very forgetful, or there is a reason why the City Planner of Brisbane has not been invited to Darwin. The so-called Planning Committee has something to hide; it is afraid of a competent person going there. I expect the Minister to communicate with the Administrator by wire, asking for an explanation as to why the City Planner of Brisbane has not been invited to Darwin. I shall do my utmost to expose the trafficking in land which has been going on in Darwin, and shall leave no stone unturned in my attempt to do so. I am suffering from a sense of frustration to a greater degree, perhaps, than is any other honorable member, but I am going to have this matter out. Either the Administrator, Mr. Abbott, or the Minister will supply an explanation. Perhaps both of them will do so.

The honorable member for Gippsland (Mr. Paterson), when Minister for the Interior, endeavoured to do the right thing by the Northern Territory. He arranged for the granting of certain concessions to lessees, but no one was appointed to give effect to them. He devised a scheme whereby the Government would pay half of the cost of certain undertakings, but, unfortunately, the smaller men could not pay even half of the cost. The sinking of a bore may cost as much as £1,100 or £1,200, and only the bigger lessees could afford tq pay their half of the cost. The result was that they alone benefited from that policy. The three chief beneficiaries. were the lessees of Wave Hill, Brunette Downs and another. The smaller, men did not even know for several months how to apply for such assistance, and no one was appointed, to tell them. Since then, some of them have taken advantage of the concession ; but the policy was not effec- tive because the smaller men could’ not pay their share of the cost. The policy of the honorable member for .Indi, when Minister for the Interior, was a better one. Under ‘ it, bores were to be sunk and paid for by the Government, and the lessee would pay back his share of .the cost in 20 or 30 years with interest at 3 per cent. But, as the honorable gentleman pointed out, and as I have tried to tell my constituents in defending him, other members of the Cabinet defeated his purpose. It is a disgrace that so little has come from the money expended in the Northern Territory. Indeed, the chief result of that expenditure is that, the larger lessees have been more firmly entrenched than before. It is true that there is a road train which travels from Alice Springs to within 300 miles of Darwin, and charges 4d. a mile for some materials and 2d. a mile for windmill parts. But that service has benefited chiefly one or two big firms, Vestey’s Limited in particular. The principal outcome of that concession is that the gang of racketeers in the Northern Territory is entrenched more deeply than ever. I opposed the road train when it was first suggested, because the subsidized shipping firm of Burke and Company ;was doing an excellent job at the. time.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Makin:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– The honorable member will not be in order in pursuing that line of argument.

Mr BLAIN:

– This road tranport service is under the control of the Works Department with which we are now dealing. That is one of the many anomalies associated with the Northern Territory administration. It was my pleasure to force the issue which led to Mr. Payne going to the Northern Territory. It was a difficult job. Three months after I was elected to this Parliament I met some members of the Pastoralists Association in O’Connell-street, Sydney. They strongly opposed my suggestion, and said that Mr. - Payne was about to be displaced because of his pastoral policy. I ascertained later that pressure had been brought to bear in an attempt to get rid of that excellent officer.-

Mr Martens:

– Does the honorable gentleman say that Mr. Forgan Smith tried- to get rid of him ?

Mr BLAIN:

– No. To his credit, he would not entertain the idea. Eventually, the then Minister for the Interior, Mr. Paterson, agreed that Mr. Payne should visit the Territory and report on land settlement there. His report was furnished over two years ago. I was unable to attend the inquiry in person, and so I submitted some evidence in writing. I shall not refer to that evidence in detail, but I emphasized the need to settle more people in the Northern. Territory. In order to do that, the land must be subdivided. There is no other way. Many of the lessees there now have too much land. -Vestey’s Limited and Bovril Limited have holdings which are unwieldy. The Government should cause every lessee to be interviewed in order to ascertain how much land he can profitably use. In my opinion, it would be enough to provide land sufficient- to carry 25,000 cattle and no more.

Mr Holloway:

– There has been no survey of the Territory and the lessees do not know their boundaries.

Mr BLAIN:

– -Each lessee should be required to sign a statement setting out the area that he is prepared to use. As things are, money is wasted just as if it were poured down a well. We get no return from it, except that these big interests are entrenched more deeply. Land-hungry men in other parts of the Commonwealth, who would make good settlers, are waiting for an opportunity to take up holdings in the Northern Territory. In connexion with expenditure on the Northern Territory I urge that we take steps to ensure that the big lessees are not entrenched more deeply. Those who are not exporters should not be allowed to hold land there at all. They merely use their bullocks to depress prices on the eastern sea-board of Australia when the export season opens.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne Ports

– I am disappointed to find that after nearly fifteen years’ effort to achieve a measure of co-operation between State and Federal authorities in the prosecution of public works, so little has been achieved. Years. ago, I sat on conferences, the object of which was so to plan public _ works programme as to get the work done during periods of- economic depression, when prices were low and unemployment was rife. Thus a twofold purpose would be achieved - the work would be done at less cost, and employment would be found for the people during times when private enterprise could not provide it. Unfortunately, those who have had any experience on public works committees know that, though the committees may recommend certain works, year after year is sometimes allowed to elapse before anything is actually done. Take, for example, the improvements to the Kingsford Smith aerodrome. Two years ago, this proposal was referred to the Public Works Committee as an urgent matter, and the committee recommended, among other things, that a building be erected, with a watch tower from which an officer would guide aeroplanes arriving at the aerodrome. It was also recommended that trainees and joy-riders should be removed somewhere else, so that commercial aeroplanes, which sometimes had difficulty enough in finding their own way down, would not have to run the risk of colliding with these other machines. Nothing, however, has yet been done. I believe that the collision which took place the other day might have. been, avoided, if that watch tower had been provided, and a lookout had been kept. I do not, of course, hold the Minister or the Government responsible for the accident, but it is unfortunate that there has been so much delay.

In regard to the proposed community hospital in Canberra, the Government was urged by the Advisory Council, which takes the place of a municipal authority in this place, that a new hospital was needed. The matter was referred to the Public Works Committee, and a most exhaustive inquiry was conducted. I point out to the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) that the. members of the Public Works Committee recognize that building costs in Canberra are too high, and they believed that some reference ought, perhaps, to be made to it in the committee’s report. The fact remained, however, that that question had not been referred to the committee, and we were not sufficiently presumptuous to offer an opinion. The committee was asked only to report on the site, and on the best kind of hospital to erect if, in its opinion, it was necessary that one should be erected. I agree that there should be an investigation into building costs in Canberra, though some of the reasons art; obvious without an investigation. One contributing factor is the distance which materials have to be transported, and another is that there is no through railway service, so that two freights have to be paid, one from Sydney to Queanbeyan, and another from Queanbeyan to Canberra.

Reference has been made to Canberra bricks, and I have been advised by experts that the bricks made here are as good as those made anywhere else in Australia. They appear, in fact, to be good enough to be used in the construction of any part of a building. The trouble is, however, that not enough bricks are being turned out by the local yard to meet the present building programme, and second-grade bricks are being imported from brickyards in New South Wales at very high cost, when freight is added. It has been found that the weighted average cost per hospital bed for the construction of modern hospitals works out at about £1,000. An apparent exception was the recently completed hospital at Hobart, one of the finest this side of the line, but in that case such items as X-ray equipment, theatre equipment, lighting, &c, were not taken into consideration. In the estimates for the Canberra hospital, everything was included. I have studied the figures for the new hospital in St. Kilda-road, for the Mercy Hospital, and for the Freemasons’ Hospital in Melbourne, and in every case the cost works out at about £1,000 a bed. It will be seen, therefore, that the cost of the proposed Canberra hospital is not inordinately high.

The Leader of the Country party was not quite accurate - though I know that he did not mean to be unfair - when he said that the Public Works Committee had effected economies only by pruning the size of the building. That is not so. I have discovered that ornamentation of all kinds is usually included in the plans of buildings prepared by government officials. I was a member of the committee which inquired into the original proposal for the erection of public swimming baths in Canberra. The plan submitted by the Director of Works was after the fashion of a Roman bath of the most luxurious kind. There were rows of .ornamental pillars which would have been very costly. The people certainly did not want them ; all they wanted was somewhere to swim. The committee decided that there was no need for such an elaborate swimming pool, and a much cheaper design was eventually, agreed upon. Something of the same kind occurred in regard to the hospital. The original plan provided for a great, sweeping drive such as might have approached a castle, and there were to be small detached buildings, and a sentry box.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– What was that for?

Mr HOLLOWAY:

– Presumably, it was to be occupied by some one who would guide visitors. It was trimmings of that kind that we were able to cut away. A committee that knows its work, however, can do more than merely effect money savings; it can ensure that the plan will make for greater efficiency. The members of the committee do not do that by virtue of their own knowledge, but they have the benefit of expert evidence. Thus, the committee was able to recommend that, at the Kingsford Smith aerodrome, the offices of the Customs Department and of the Intelligence Branch should be grouped in such a way that there would be a minimum of delay and inconvenience to incoming passengers, while investigations could be made regarding drug smuggling, &c, as efficiently as possible.

In all my experience on the Public Works Committee, I have never known a plan to be submitted for consideration that could not be altered and improved. In regard to the hospital inquiry, it was unfortunately true that no two witnesses who appeared before us told the same story. Things had come to such a pass that many of the local witnesses were hardly on speaking terms with one another. However, no one who had an opinion to offer was denied a hearing, and, as the result, I think that a very good report has been submitted. The committee had to see that the hospital was built on a site that would not violate the original Griffin plan - whether that requirement was right or wrong does not matter. The building had also to he in harmony with its surroundings. Two sites vere available for selection, both of which were in the area provided in the Griffin plan for a hospital. We changed the proposed site slightly, and thereby made possible the saving of about £1,000 in foundations. This shows that some inquiry is well worth while. Our recommendation was thoroughly justifed in every respect. The Leader of the Country party seemed to suggest that there was a minority report.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– I did not use the word in its strict sense, but rather loosely. I quite understood the position.

Mr HOLLOWAY:

– Any one who read the report quickly might be excused for assuming that majority and minority reports were submitted, but actually the recommendation of the committee was unanimous. One or two members were of the opinion that the present building could serve the requirements of Canberra for another five years, but the remainder of us thought otherwise, particularly as we were aware that Government departments sometimes move slowly. It has turned out to be so in this case, for a year has elapsed since our report was presented and nothing has been done. It seems to me that the cost of the hospital is likely to increase if delays occur, and from one point of view I hope that that may be so, for I am well aware that falling prices generally foretell increased unemployment and depression. We do not desire those experiences. A word or two may be said concerning the architect’s fees. I believe that the architect who prepared the plans is a specialist in his own line. His percentage charges were not higher than they would have been for similar work in Sydney or Melbourne, but as all costs are a little higher in Canberra, the cost of the hospital itself would be higher than for a similar building in Sydney or Melbourne, and so the total amount that the architect would receive would be a little higher.

This work should, in my opinion, be put in hand immediately.

Mr ANTHONY:
Richmond

.- A capital expenditure of about £44,000,000 is being contemplated under these Estimates in the current financial year. Such a large proposed expenditure merits some comment. Last year the amount expended in this direction was £12,000,000. The reason for the large increase to £44,000,000 this year is no mystery, unfortunately, to any of us. I regret, however, that the Government has seen fit to provide for this large capital expenditure on works for defence and other purposes almost completely from loan funds. The amount to be raised in this way is between £37,000,000 and £38,000,000. Only about £3,500,000 is to be raised by means of taxation and otherwise from revenue’. The people of Australia should, in my opinion, be brought gradually to a realization of the heavy burden that this war will place upon them. They should not be expected to shoulder the burden all at once. So I consider that the Government would have acted more wisely had it increased taxation this year as a kind of preparation for the increase that will be inevitable next year if the war continues, as it seems inevitable it will do, beyond Christmas and into the new year.

An amount of £3,275,000 is proposed to be voted for the purposes of the Department of Supply and Development which has the responsibility to provide for munitions and for plant and equipment of different kinds for war purposes. Apparently very little of this huge sum is to be expended in the inland areas of Australia. In view of the fact that humanity is not likely to change its nature immediately, it seems to me that any one who expects this war to end contention upon the earth is a little too optimistic; consequently we should provide for future eventualities.

Mr Brennan:

– Does the honorable member desire to prepare for “the war after this “?

Mr ANTHONY:

– I desire that the defence of Australia shall be so organized as to be on a permanent basis. I hope that we shall be able to hold this continent for all time, but if we are to do so we must provide adequately for its defence. Our long coastline, is, we know, particularly vulnerable to the kind of attack that we must expect if we should be invaded. Consequently we should be wise to locate our munitions works and such other enterprises as we need for defence purposes in inland districts. I have in mind, for instance, Lithgow. No doubt, some of the money that is to be expended on new works this year will be used, to i increase, the munitions manufacturing; resources of that town ; but certain, places. in- ;northern New South Wales of high ..strategic value, which would be difficult of. access by an enemy, should also be. developed as munitions manufacturing centres. If efficient establishments were located in .such areas, Australia’s safety would-be much enhanced.

Mr Brennan:

– “What about buildinga few more houses and schools, and forgetting the war for a little while?

Mr ANTHONY:

– I agree with the honorable” .member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) that it is ‘far more desirable to build .houses and schools than to build munitions factories and the like, but, unfortunately, we have to face the fact that if we build only houses and schools they may be destroyed as .were the houses and schools of Poland, Czechoslovakia and other places by a power which devoted, its energies, to the construction of implements of war. Although I believe that we should do all that is possible to increase the social amenities of all sections of the community, we must, at the same time, face facts.

Some reference has been made in the course of this discussion to the need for constructing new and better dwellings, for railway workers who live along the trans-Australian railway line. The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) and you, Mr. Makin, dealt with this subject. I do not join issue with you, although I asked, by interjection, while one honorable member was speaking, whether the people who live in this area’ really desire better housing accommodation. I asked that question because, last year, when I travelled alone the trans-Australian line, I was sufficiently, interested to leave the train at several places, walk over to the dwellinghouses, and talk to the men and women who were there. I found that there was not a unanimity of opinion on the need for more substantial dwellings.

Mr Holloway:

– Why?

Mr ANTHONY:

– At present, the people are- paying a very small rental of perhaps only 2s. or 3s. a week for their dwellings, and some of them considered that if new dwellings were erected they might have to pay a rental three or four times .greater if new houses were built, and they questioned whether it would be worth while. This, of course, was not a’ unanimous opinion. But the fact that such remarks were made showed a difference of .outlook among the people. I did not express any opinion on’ the subject at the time, as I was interested in ascertaining what the people themselves thought. In a general way 1 very strongly favour, the building of decent, and comfortable living quarters -for workmen.

Several honorable members have questioned whether the tendency, or. the necessity, to curb the capital, expenditure, by the Postmaster-General’s Department has not been too marked. -They have suggested that the reductions have been too severe. I appreciate the fact that we are at war and are faced with greater financial responsibilities than we ever had to face in time of peace. Nevertheless, so long as it is at all practicable, we must endeavour to maintain the. ..ordinary, amenities of life in .this country. The. curbing of capital expenditure in country districts, particularly in relation to-postal facilities, would create more hardships than would be created if expenditure were curbed in areas which were developed many years ago. Many rural districts have not been settled for very long and their facilities must be improved considerably before’ they can be regarded as adequate. In very many instances, country settlers have to travel for miles through -flooded creeks, or over, fire-swept country, on bad roads, in order to reach a telephone or a post office. Many years’ will elapse before we can compensate for the retrenchments that were effected during the depression years. I urge the Government to endeavour, although I know that the task will not be easy, to prevent undue curtailment of capital expenditure on postal facilities.

Another ‘ matter which rightly can be discussed under the Works Estimates is the cattle tick eradication problem in the northern area of New South Wales. Honorable members who are not acquainted with this problem might consider that it applies only to the north coast area, but I warn - them, particularly those who represent cattle-raising electorates, that unless tick infestation is controlled, it may ultimately sweep along the whole of the eastern sea-board of Australia. If the experience of Queensland should be repeated, hundreds of thousands of cattle will be’ lost. The method of dealing with cattle tick is’ to construct dips and other facilities– throughout the infected areas. In the past the Commonwealth Government co-operated with the Government of New South Wales by providing a sum of money - I believe it was £150,000- for that purpose, and the New South Wales. Government provided an equal’ amount. But I have been unable to find any reference in the Government’s programme to . the . continuance of that work.

Mr Scully:

– They are only trying to controlthe ticks, not to eradicate them.

Mr ANTHONY:

– They have gone further than that. Ticks have been eradicated in certain areas, although there have been setbacks in other districts. The object, is eradication rather than control.

Mr Scully:

– The work has been confined to control in many areas so far.

Mr ANTHONY:

– The method is. to eradicate the ticks in one area, while controlling, them in others. This matter is not one affecting the northern districts of Now South Wales alone and the Government should bear that in mind.

The information contained in the financial papers is inadequate. The Government should have given a clear indication of its proposals regarding the raising, of revenue. It. certainly states that a large sum is. to be obtained from loan funds, but obviously there will be a greater call for expenditure than is indicated. I would have preferred the Government to ask for, Supply only until the end of March, 1940, and then submit’ a complete programme, which the Parliament could consider in the light of more general knowledge of all of the circumstances. I realize that the Government has a very difficult task to undertake, however, and my goodwill and that of other honorable members of the Country party, go with it.

Mr.PERKINS (Eden-Monaro - Minister in charge of External Territories) [9.35]. - I have followed with interest ‘the speeches made by various honorable members, numbering about 25. It would be impossible for me to reply in detail to all of the questions raised, but I shall see that they are duly brought to the notice of the Ministers and departments concerned. I shall make one exception by replying briefly to a matter raised by the honorable member for West Sydney. (Mr. Beasley). If I did not do so, a shadow might be cast over, the good name of Sir Archibald Howie-; the honorable gentleman’s remarks may have, created some misapprehension which should be corrected. Sir -Archibald Howie is a member of the Defence Advisory Panel, and is rendering the Government a most useful service. Honorable members will realize that, upon the outbreak of war, the establishment of the military camp at Ingleburn, with which his name has been associated, became an urgent necessity, and therefore the Department of ‘the Interior had to make a departure from the usual method adopted in connexion with building works. -An advisory panel was f ormed, but Sir Archibald Howie is not its only member. There are four others. Instead of calling tenders, as is usual, the Government drew up a list of those firms likely to compete for the work, and offered it to them on a cost plus basis. The firms were not selected by Sir Archibald Howie. Four were selected and their names were submitted to the Advisory Panel, and all that Sir Archibald Howie did was to register his approval of them or otherwise. His decision was guided by the votes of the other members of the panel. He is quite innocent of the charge made by the honorable member for West Sydney. The Minister for the Interior assures me that the work, carried out by the contractors has been most satisfactory, and that there has been no complaint in regard to the system which was adopted only because the work had to be done in a limited time. The members of thecouncil Were selected because of their associations, which indicated that they were capable and would give a good, honest deal. One of the firms’ mentioned in connexion with the subcontracting was Hudson Brothers. ‘’ It was said that the firm was fined for committing breaches of industrial awards. That may or- may not be so.

Mr Beasley:

– I assure the Minister that that is so.

Mr PERKINS:
UAP

– There was no case of a breach of any award on the job’ upon which the firm was engaged for the- Government: I admit that themethod adopted in this case is not a satisfactory one. The calling for tenders is a better system, but honorable members will concede that there was special urgency in this case, which made it necessary for the Government to depart from the usual procedure. If any honorable member wishes to peruse the contract, which is too lengthy to read now, I can supply him with a copy.

Mr Anthony:

– Is the Minister in possession of information to the effect that carpenters left other jobs to work for the sub-contractors at a wage of £14 a week?

Mr PERKINS:

– All that the Government asked was that award rates of wages should be paid. Any payments above the award rates were matters solely for the firm.

A number of honorable members have referred to the proposed erection of a new community hospital at Canberra. An amount of £20,000 is provided for that purpose in the Estimates. I do not suggest that the amount will necessarily be limited to £20,000, because the Government views this work as a matter of urgency. It is thankful to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works and considers, despite what honorable members may have said, that the committee has done good work. The committee has been useful to the Government, which intends to carry out its recommendations at the earliest possible date. Tenders are about to be invited and, unless the unexpected occurs, the hospital should be well on the way to completion before the end of the present financial year.

Other matters raised by honorable members are too numerous for me to discuss in detail at the moment. I am only the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior and I have not the necessary information to give complete answers, but I assure honorable members that the questions they have raised will be brought to the attention of all Ministers and departmental officers concerned.

Mr CLARK:
Darling

.- The Estimates now before the Parliament are important to honorable members because they give the first indication of the policy likely to be pursued by the Menzies Ministry. One noticeable feature is the reduction of expenditure on public works, and as the result of that, we must expect to see a considerable increase of unemployment. Another regrettable feature is the curtailment of expenditure in country districts. For some time past, I and other honorable members who represent remote country districts, have stressed the necessity for carrying out certain public works, particularly in connexion with postal facilities. Many people, although they have resided in far-flung areas of the Commonwealth for years past, are still some hundreds of miles from the nearest telephone services. That state of affairs should not be allowed to exist in an age such as the present. The Government should incur considerable expenditure to bring these ordinary facilities to people at present living in isolation. Because they live far away from settled areas, they should not be deprived of the privileges accorded to people living in more populous districts. Often, when sickness or accident occurs, they are handicapped by the lack of telephone services, and, even in my electorate, cases have been brought to my notice in which lives have been lost simply because of the absence of a telephone service. The needs of these people should not be neglected. I have discussed these matters with various officers controlling Commonwealth works and they have assured me that, although their departments wish to carry out certain projects, their desires are limited by the amount of money made available by the Government. The Government regards these works not as matters of actual necessity or desirability, but purely as matters of policy. Country centres are overlooked in the Government’s programme of expenditure from both revenue and loan funds. A great deal of employment will certainly be provided in areas where large amounts of defence funds will be expended, but no employment will be provided by these funds in country areas. By carrying out works in country districts, the Government could accomplish the two-fold objective of providing employment and establishing necessary facilities. In some of the outback areas, neighbours are as much as ten, twenty or 30 miles apart, and many of them are hundreds of miles from the nearest telephoneIn those districts where the population is growing, every consideration should be given . to the needs of the settlers. Very often the reply made by the department to requests for improved facilities by people living in the outback is that the population of the area is insufficient to warrant the expenditure of the money involved. When we consider the isolated areas which, owing to the wise decision of some previous government, have been provided with a telephone service for many years, it is difficult to understand why the needs of many other established communities are constantly ignored by the department. If, twenty or 30 years ago, governments could see their way clear to expend considerable sums of money on the provision of telephonic services in isolated areas, surely the present Government must realize its obligation to provide similar services in more recently developed areas.

Another matter to which I would urge the Government to give careful consideration is the provision of landing grounds and aerodromes in isolated areas. Many people living in remote parts of the ‘Commonwealth are widely separated from medical aid. In case of sickness they have to depend on their own scanty knowledge. The Government should consider the provision of landing grounds and aerodromes in outlying parts in order that medical aid may be provided quickly in case of need. The Government provides a subsidy for the aerial medical service, but unless suitable landing grounds are provided this service cannot be extended to many areas. In many instances those who need the service most are denied it. The Government should construct safe landing grounds in the interests, not only of those who pioneer the outback, but also of the flying doctors who very often risk their lives and the lives of their patients in landing and taking off in difficult country. If these facilities were provided, those who live in the outback would be given greater confidence. In addition, money expended in this direction would do much to relieve unemployment in country districts.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) has appealed to the nation in this time of emergency with the slogan, “ Business as usual “. When we find in the Works Estimates that the votes for essential and important works have been curtailed, and that unexpended balances are shown in respect of last year’s appropriations, we wonder if the right honorable gentleman is sincere in his appeal. For instance, we find that, whereas the vote for additions, new works and buildings for the Postmaster-General’s Department last year was £7,042,000, the actual expenditure was only £6,500,000. I am at a loss to know why the. balance of £500,000 remained unexpended. This year the vote has been reduced by £3,000,000. I stress the desirability of giving greater consideration to the claims of residents of outback areas, and I believe that, if it can possibly be avoided, no reduction of the vote for the PostmasterGeneral’s Department should be made.

In contrast to this reduction of expenditure for the Postmaster-General’s Department, we find that the vote for buildings, works, sites, ite., for the Governor-General’s establishments has been considerably increased. Although only £5,000 was voted for this purpose last year, the expenditure amounted to over £16,000, and this year no less than £53,700 is to be provided, a good deal of it probably at the expense of the neglect of much-needed facilities for country people. The Government’s invariable reply to requests by country people for improved postal services is that every effort must be made to curtail expenditure in other directions in order to provide the money necessary for the manufacture of munitions and war materials. Whilst I believe in that to a certain degree, undue curtailment of the votes for the improvement of country postal and telephonic services is unwarranted.

I wish to deal now, briefly, with housing conditions in Canberra. An amount of £490,000 was expended last year for the erection of houses in Canberra. This year the amount to be made available for this purpose is approximately £658,000, which represents a slight increase over last year’s vote. I am told by responsible officers that there is a shortage of 400 houses in Canberra. Such a state of affairs should not exist in a city over which the Commonwealth Government has absolute control.

Provision is made under expenditure from loan funds for payments to the

States .under the Farmers’ Debt Adjustment Act, Last year about £2,000,000 was made available to the State governments for the adjustment of farmers’-, debts, but this year only £750,000 is to be made available for that purpose. As the Commonwealth Government provides such large amounts for the relief of farmers’ debts, it should exercise more rigid scrutiny over its expenditure by the State governments. Considerable dissatisfaction exists among farmers in New South Wales at the way in which the New South Wales Government allocates this assistance to needy farmers. In New South Wales many farmers who claim that their financial position is sound are being forced off their holdings. They say that they should not be interfered with, and many of them are refusing to be put off their properties. The New- South Wales Government is offering some farmers £300 to relinquish all their rights and title to their land. Many of them say that they have incurred only small debts and that they will be- able to carry on, particularly in view of the improved season which they have just experienced, and the enhanced prospects of obtaining a better price for their products in- the coming year-. In providing less money this year for the relief of farmers’ debts the Government apparently believes that the farmers will be amply provided for in other ways. I did not regard the provision made last year as satisfactory from the point of view- of the farmers, and it seems that, with the curtailment of the vote- this year, their position will be made worse. I appeal to the Government at least to exercise greater supervision over the expenditure by the State governments, of the money appropriated under this vote, and to see that farmers are given “ a fair go “. The Prime Minister has stated that there will have to be a limitation of . wheat production in Australia next year. .If that be so, many of our wheat-farmers will- find’ themselves in even more serious difficulties next year. Therefore it seems likely that the vote of £750,000 for the adjustment of farmers’ debts’ will not be nearly sufficient. Any limitation of production will have to be handled very carefully and not in a haphazard way. The Government ‘ should not lose sight of the fact that the small farmers, are the backbone of this country; their interests should be considered of paramount importance.

Mr SCULLY:
Gwydir

.- I condemn the Government for its neglect of the needs of country people. I deplore the fact that no provision is being made for the extension of country mail and telephonic facilities. During the last year, and particularly during the last three months, I have made repeated applications for extended postal facilities in outlying districts. The invariable reply of the department has been to the effect that, whilst it considered the matter as important, no funds could be made available. In this way the Government inflicts considerable hardship on country people. I condemn this policy wholeheartedly. We who live in more privileged areas do not realize the drawbacks and disabilities suffered by those who live in areas remote from the main centres of population. I deplore the parsimonious attitude of the Postmaster-General’s Department in consistently refusing to extend essential services. It has been definitely admitted by the department that many of the applications for extended postal and telephonic services are amply justified: yet there is always this cry of “ no funds “. In many instances the improved service would not involve an expenditure of more than £100 per annum and would cover a large number of settlers. I regard the attitude of the department in regard to this matter as unjust and unfair. I have had definite promises from postal inspectors who have visited outlying areas that they would recommend an extension of the services, but apparently the department has received a direction from the Government that no funds will be made available for improved postal facilities. It is but a lame excuse to say that everything must be subordinated to defence.

I was very much impressed by the observations of the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Clark) with reference to the need for the provision of -landing grounds and aerodromes in country districts. I have submitted many applications to the Defence Department for assistance in the construction of aerodromes in. outlying places. For a long time I have been fighting for the provision of an aerodrome at Walgett.- The request has repeatedly ‘(been . turned down in spite of the fact that Walgett is strategically placed from the defence point of view;’ but, apart from that, an aerodrome at Walgett would be a boon to the residents of the district. It would cost Only a few hundred pounds. On the’ air-mail route between Sydney to Towrisville is the isolated town of Mungindi, which is the centre of one of the most isolated parts of New South Wales. In order that residents of that locality should be able to take’ advantage of the expansion of the “ flying doctor “ service, it is essential that an airportbe provided; For strategic and health reasons,’ the Commonwealth Government should do, everything possible to establish landing grounds in all remote country districts.

Mr McHUGH:
Wakefield

.- I take this opportunity to make a further appeal on behalf of the residents of the picturesque town of Clare, South Australia, for the provision of a new post office.. The present post office building is 70 years old, and is in a state of disrepair. A former Postmaster-General, Senator A. J. McLachlan, promised the people of Clare . that ‘they would be given a new post office. That can be verified by another former Postmaster-General, the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron). But the department now proposes to renovate and remodel the old building. On a recent visit to the town, I inspected the building and, after careful examination, I advised the people to put up with, the difficulties, for the time, being and press for an entirely new post office. There is an obligation on the Ministry to- carry out the promise that was given by Senator A. J. McLachlan on behalf of a former government, and, if it is not possible for. the present Works Estimates to be revised now, the Postmaster-General (Mr. Harrison) should undertake to ensure that financial provision is made for this work in the Estimates for next year.

The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) and the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin), as well as other honorable members, have addressed the committee to-day in respect of the conduct of affairs in the Common wealth Railways Service. The ‘NorthSouth; line runs through, my - electorate, and I feel it incumbent upon me to support what those honorable gentlemen have said about the departmental inquiry ‘that was made into charges levelled by senior officers of the Commonwealth . Railways Service at their own boss - the Commonweath Railways Commissioner. It is a most unusual thing for officers, of a department themselves to cause to be instituted an inquiry into the activities of their own chief, because, in so doing, they run the risk of victimization. The fact that they were ready to take that risk proves how serious their complaints were. The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) should not let things stand where they are. He should have another look at - this matter.

Mr Blain:

– Mr. Sharwood, who conducted the inquiry, effectively smothered things.

Mr McHUGH:

– Nevertheless, when 41 charges are laid against the Commissioner by his own staff and practically half of them are held by the investigator to be proven, it behoves the Prime Minister to- do something. Yet the Commissioner for Railways is still in ofiice ! As the inquiry was a departmental inquiry, the report does not come to Parliament, but the Government has seen it and it is within the power of the Government to employ and ‘dismiss at will.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Fadden:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

– The committee is not discussing administration. The Works Estimates are before theChair.

Mr McHUGH:

– The charges that caused that inquiry mainly concerned railway works. I do not intend to go into the details of the quarrel, but this Parliament and the Prime Minister have a duty to perform, and, when an impartial inquirer finds that twenty out of 41 charges against the Commissioner of Railways are proven, more is necessary than has been done.-

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.The honorable member may not proceed along those lines.

Mr McHUGH:

– If there is suspicion that Commonwealth Railways’ works are not being administered properly, that suspicion should be voiced in this Parliament.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN.At the proper time.

Mr McHUGH:

– I do not wish to transgress the Standing Orders. I have said sufficient about that matter.

In July, the honorable member for Maribyrnong and I journeyed by rail from Adelaide to Alice Springs, alighting at every possible station, especially on the Commonwealth section from Quorn. We found that the housing conditions for railway workers on that line are a great deal worse even than those on the EastWest line. Certain buildings have been erected to provide for the men on the East-West railway, but the conditions on the northern line, which was taken over by the Commonwealth Government from South Australia, are deplorable.

That raises the question of the disposal of the profits from the Stores Branch of the Commonwealth Railways Department. In the last ten years, those profits have amounted to £50,000. They arise from the disposal of goods by the Stores Branch to employees of the railway service. There is an obligation on the department to use those profits, which are derived from trade with its own employees, for the improvement of the conditions of those employees. The figures cited to-day by the honorable member for Maribyrnong were sufficient to prove his contention that the profits have been withheld year by year and transferred to revenue in large amounts in particular years. In one year, £12,000 was transferred and in another, £19,000. It is a mysterious coincidence that the years in which those amounts of money were transferred to revenue were the years in which the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner became eligible for re-appointment Normally, only £1,000 a year has been transferred from the Stores Branch to revenue. Few people living in the cities can appreciate the difficulties which the settlers in outback areas have to face. At times the temperature is 120 degrees in the shade for long periods, and in the drought years, so dust-laden has been the air that children have had to go to hospital to have their lungs scraped. We on this side will continue to urge that the profit from these stores should be expended along the lines that have been indicated.

I agree with the honorable member for the Northern Territory (Mr. Blain) that it is economically unsound to continue to expend public money in the Northern Territory merely in order that three or four big cattle companies may benefit. The expenditure of money by the Government in providing railways and other transport facilities, aerodromes, defence works, medical services and so on, enhances the value of the properties served, but it is not right that the taxpayer should provide that money merely to increase the profits of a few big companies. The greatest need of the Northern Territory is population, and unless the expenditure of public moneys has the effect of increasing the number of people there, it is not justified. In the final analysis, the problem of the Northern Territory is a land problem. I have lived on the edge of this vast interior and I know something of its vast distances, about which many city dwellers have little understanding. The distance from Adelaide to Alice Springs is 1,000 miles, but even when that point has been reached, the traveller still has some distance to go before arriving at the centre of this vast island continent. The area of the Northern Territory is about one-sixth of the whole of the Commonwealth, and is sufficient to justify the full-time energies of one Minister. In my opinion, the Minister in charge of that territory should live in the territory half of his time. A man sitting in an office in Canberra, or in any of the other capital cities, cannot understand the problems of this vast area. They are different from the problems met in other parts of the Commonwealth. ‘Local knowledge is necessary for efficient administration, and that knowledge cannot be obtained unless the Minister lives in the territory. I agree with those who say that we do not deserve to hold this country unless we populate it; and its successful occupation requires scientific investigation. I suggest the appointment of a Minister to whom should be entrusted the administration of this territory. It is a most difficult portion of the continent to administer and, as I hare said, local knowledge is necessary to make a success of the job.

I could speak at length of the problems caused by the change:over from cattle to sheep. There are many who say that the change is unwise. Cattlemen say that the stocking of the country with smaller animals will lead to soil erosion and make the country a dust bowl. That is one of the problems associated with the administration which can only be dealt with on the spot. In passing, [ express my conviction that soil erosion is the greatest internal problem which this country has yet to face. The sooner it is faced the better. The warning cannot be repeated too often. Soil erosion is a problem which is becoming more and more serious throughout the world.

I hope that the Assistant Minister (Mr. Perkins) will discuss with the Minister for the Interior (Senator Foll) the constructive criticism offered by honorable members during this debate. The Labour party has a definite policy for the development of Australia, and it freely offers to the Government its constructive criticism in that connexion. I hope that we shall not for long continue to spend money in the destruction of human life, and that the war will soon end, so that we can devote our energies to the development of this continent and the promotion of the happiness and prosperity of its people.

Mr. DRAKEFORD (Maribyrnong) 1 10.24]. - I rise principally to’ reply to the remarks of the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) on the subject of the housing of railway employees along the trans-Australian railway, because unless that be done an incorrect impression may be left on the minds of some honorable members. As he travelled ulong that railway by passenger train which stopped for only short periods at wayside stations, the honorable .gentleman could only have had very limited conversations with people occupying tent houses. These are merely shacks that were intended to accommodate workers during the building stage of the railway. There may be a few persons who would rather pay, for such accommodation, 3s. a week rent plus sanitary and water charges, than pay the rent of a decent home. The honorable gentleman evi dently met some such persons, but they would not object to paying the rents charged for decent accommodation on the basis of those charged to postal employees. When the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) and I investigated conditions along the line we travelled by both goods and express trains, and so arranged our itinerary that we were able to stay overnight at a number of places, and to spend several, hours at others. Altogether, we took ten days, and we met nearly all of the railway employees along the line. They were unanimous in stating that, if rents were fixed on the basis charged to employees of the Postal Department, they would be satisfied. On the 8th November, 1938, I was informed in answer to questions which I had asked upon notice, that it was the usual practice of the Postal Department to charge its employees rent on the basis of 10 per cent, of the minimum salary of the officer occupying the premises. The reply of the Minister went on to say that at Rawlinna a married officer was charged £31 per annum and at Cook £34 per annum. He also said that in some instances cottages were occupied by single men, as married officers were not available. I asked a similar question relating to the charges for houses occupied by employees of the Commonwealth Railways and was informed -

The general principle is to fix the rentals, as fur as practicable, on a basis of a return of 6 per cent, to cover maintenance; water and sanitation charges are fixed as far as practicable on the basis of the costs of such services.

At Cook three houses are provided by the Postmaster-General’s Department, the aggregate cost being £4,110, an average of approximately £1,370. The rent charged by the Postal Department is, leaving out shillings and pence, £34 per annum. For a similar house a railway employee would have to pay approximately £80. At Rawlinna there are two houses belonging to the Postal Department, their total cost being £2,808, or £1,404 each. The cost to the postal employee of one of those houses is £31 per annum. A similar house would cost an employee of the Commonwealth Railways £84 per annum. How can the Minister justify that discrepancy? It is obvious that the railway men are getting a raw deal. They are employees of the same government and should be placed on the same basis as the postal workers. I have no doubt that the position is the same at Alice Springs, at Maree and Oodnadatta. With all respect to the honorable member for Richmond, who suggested that the people were content, with their conditions, I point out that, the honorable member for Hindmarsh and myself made it our business to travel over . this line, and to consult with the people concerned. Everywhere we learned that it was their desire to be placed on the same basis as postal employees. That was more than twelve months ago, and although the matter has been ventilated several times since, nothing practical that will even present the appearance of reasonably meeting the situation has been done, and no provision has been made in the’ Estimates. Although these districts are represented in Parliament by Government supporters, they never raise . their voices on behalf of the railway workers on this question. All of the representations on behalf of the employees have come from members of the Opposition. Moreover, complaints have been published in the press on this subject, and these should have been sufficient to move the Government to take action. I am convinced that money could have been found for the work if the Government really wanted to find it. What I have said is a complete answer to the suggestion that the railway employees are receiving consideration, or are content with their lot. .

Mr PRICE:
Boothby

.- The honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) was at first somewhat critical of the Public Works Committee, but after having read its reports, and obtained a better understanding of its work, he became almost eulogistic. That is as it should be. I happen to be a member of the committee, and I have never been associated with any body that worked’ more assiduously and conscientiously. The great trouble is that so few proposed . works are referred to the committee. ‘During the current year, the Commonwealth has’ been spending money at a -greater rate than ever before on a great variety of undertakings, many of which should, I maintain, have been referred to the Public Works Committee for examination and report. Owing to the lack of detail in the Estimates, it is imposible to say how many individual works included in the gross total are in excess of the statutory figure of £25,000, which warrants reference to the committee; but let me draw attention to the following : -

Page 297, division 0 (1) - Buildings, works, sites, fittings and furniture for AttorneyGeneral’s Department, £125,000.

Page 297, division 7 (4)- Meteorological buildings, erection, additions and alterations. £28,375.

Page -302, division 28 (1) - Buildings, works, sites, fittings and furniture for Department of Health, £25,000. (Estimated further liability, £57,000.)

Page 302, division 31 (1) - Buildings’, works, sites, fittings and furniture for Department of Commerce, £21,000. (Estimated further liability, £7,400; amount already spent, £14,024.)

Page 304, division 36 (2) - Australian Capital Territory engineering services, £233,500. Page 300, division 38 (1) - Buildings, works, fittings and furniture for Department of Health, £29,500. (Estimated further liability, £50,000.)

On page 314 of the Estimates, the following particulars are set out : -

It is certainly desirable, when such huge expenditure is contemplated, that the Public Works Committee should be charged with the duty of going very carefully into the proposals. 1 have no doubt that it would be able to save the Commonwealth many thousands of pounds.

Mr BEASLEY:
West Sydney

– I regret that I was not- in the chamber when the Assistant Minister (Mr. Perkins) made his reply to a matter which I raised regarding the firm of Hudson’s Limited. I also regret that circumstances should have arisen to make it necessary for me to cast reflections upon any member of the Public Service. I have always entertained a high regard for the integrity of members of the Service, and I expect them to tender honest advice to Ministers when called upon. I certainly do not expect any member of the Service to advise his Minister that a member of this Parliament has made statements just for the sake of talking. The Minister’s reply to my observations regarding Hudson’s was that this firm had not broken awards, and that my charge against it had not been sustained. [ resent that imputation. The public servant who advised the Minister in that fashion ought to be named. The Public Works Director in Sydney investigated these charges, and was satisfied that they wore well-founded. He checked the allegations with the Deputy Registrar of the Federal Arbitration Court, who confirmed our charges against Hudson’s Limited. This matter was the subject of a deputation to the Prime Minister from the Timber Workers Union. The Timber Workers Federal Council sent its federal president to Sydney for ten days to investigate the matter. When I bring these particulars before Parliament, in an endeavour to prevent the almost continuous breaking of awards, some public servant saw fit to advise the Minister that the charges I have made are not sustained in substance. I feel this matter deeply, because I believe that the reputation of the Public Service is at stake. I am certainly not going to stand for any member of the Service casting aspersions of that kind on members of Parliament who seek to redress grievances. I do not blame the Minister because he based his statement on the advice tendered to him by an officer of- the department. That is my complaint. Why should any Minister be placed in the position of making a statement which, having regard to the evidence in my possession, I regard as a deliberate lie? I shall not be satisfied until the Minister affords me an opportunity to test the statements I have made in the presence of the public servant responsible for giving him this advice.

In that way only can this matter be cleared up so far as I am concerned. Public servants should realize thai statements which they supply to Ministers in their official capacity must bear the hall-mark of truth. I shall not let it be said that my statements as to what has happened in this particular1 case are so many lies. ‘ ,,

Mr PERKINS:
Monaro- Minister in charge of External Territories · Eden · UAP

.- I regret that the position complained of by the .honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) has arisen. As honorable members are aware, I am not intimately connected with the work of this department. On this occasion I did not consult my colleague, the Minister. My information was supplied to me by a junior officer of the department. I asked him .whether this firm has committed any breaches of awards as alleged by the honorable member, and he assured me that the departmental accountant made an investigation of the firm’s books and had found that no breach had been committed.

Mr Beasley:

– My name must be cleared in the matter. I shall not allow it to be said that I am telling lies.

Mr PERKINS:

– I do not . know whether this firm has been guilty. of any breach of awards before or since this job, but I was given to understand that it had committed no breach while engaged on this job.

Mr Beasley:

– 1 have supplied the evidence that it did commit breaches of the award on this job. A deputation waited upon the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) in connexion with these charges. Will the Minister undertake to clear my name in the matter? I object to1 being regarded as a frivolous member.’

Mr PERKINS:

– I give the honorable member that undertaking.

The general debate being concluded,

Item agreed to.

Remainder of Estimates - by hare - taken as. a whole, and agreed to. ,

Motion (by Mr. Perkins) agreed to -

That there be granted to His Majesty to the service of the year 1939-40 for the purposes of additions, new works, buildings, &c, a sum not exceeding ?3,534,000.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted. .

Resolution of Ways and Means founded on Resolution of Supply, reported and adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Spender and Mr. ‘Perkins do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

page 2388

APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND BUILDINGS) BILL 1939-40

Bill brought up by Mr. Spender, and passed through all stages without amendment or debate.

page 2388

FINANCIAL STATEMENT 1939-40

In Committee of Supply:

Consideration resumed from page 2327 (on motion by Mr. Spender) -

That the first item in the Estimates under Division 1 - ‘the -Senate - namely, “/Salaries and allowances, ?8,040 “, be agreed to.

Mr BARNARD:
Bass

. -I propose to deal with the fishing industry, which has been the subject of a good deal of investigation over a period of years, under the supervision of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. For the purpose of these investigations, the Government purchased the research vessel Warreen, which has been doing excellent work in our coastal waters. The officers engaged on that vessel have located vast beds of fish in the waters, not only on the east coast of the mainland, but also around Tasmania. A report furnished on this subject to the Minister on the 16th November reads -

Large quantities of three valuable species of tuna - albacore, bluefin and striped tuna - have been found to occur in south-eastern waters in, broadly, the spring, summer and autumn months over an area bounded roughly by Sydney in the north and Hobart in the south.

Preliminary aerial and boat investigations Wave disclosed that large quantities of bluefin tuna occur in South Australian waters and in the Great Australian Bight as far west as the head of the bight. Our investigations have not extended westward of that point, but occasional captures by fishermen and anglers indicate that three species of tuna occur in West Australian waters. This area needs further investigation before we can assess the commercial possibilities of these occurrences.

Admittedly, much further investigation by boat and plane of occurrences and seasonal distribution of pelagic fishes throughout Australia is necessary, but already sufficient information has been obtained to warrant the commercial treatment of tuna and salmon at certain points. The fishing industry, of course, is subject the world over to the same fluctuations, as affect the agriculturist, and no experienced fishery industrialist expects absolute uniformity in the conditions of his industry. It is noteworthy that the great American tuna canning industry, with its meteoric rise from about 06,000 cases in 1912 to over 3,000,000 . in 1937, was begun with far less information about the occurrences of the fish than is possessed by us about Australian tuna. Moreover, many problems of capture, preservation, treatment and marketing had to be solved, but solvedthey were. Australia fortunately can learn much from American methods and equipment.

That report shows that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research has done very valuable work. A number of factories have already been established to deal with tuna, and other factories are being built.

I direct attention also to the following reports which appeared in the Trade Chronicle on the 25th October, 1939 : -

page 2388

FISH INDUSTRY IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Rapid Development Likely

South Australia is taking her fishing industry very seriously and is showing commendable enterprise in its development.

Marine Poods Limited have practically completed their quick-freezing plant at Ceduna, South Australia, which, from all accounts, is a most efficient and modern plant.

Considerable quantities of frozen-fish fillets are usually imported from Great Britain and South Africa, but in view of the uncertainty of supplies from these two countries, it is to be hoped that this industry in South Australia will shortly reach a stage whereby it can cater, at least to some extent, for Australian requirements.

The directors of Marine Foods Limited predict that their product will be superior to that from overseas.

Considerable investigation has been done, with the result that the plant, equipment and packing methods compare favorably with any similar overseas industry.

Australian Tuna

Considerable investigation has also , been done in South Australia in respect to canning tuna.

Mr. John Cosgrove, a well known expert from America, has recently completed his investigations on behalf of the Kangaroo Investigations Proprietary Limited into the question of tuna canning in South Australia.

Mr. Cosgrove reports that there are two more species of tuna available than are found by American fishermen in the Pacific. However, in Mr. Cosgrove’!, opinion considerable advances must be made in the equipment in order to can tuna commercially in Australia.

He points out that the gear is all radically different from that used in America and is not well adapted to tuna fishing. However, the present difficulties are not insurmountable and are well on the way to being overcome.

Mr. Cosgrove stated that he believed the Empire market could absorb 500,000 cases of tuna each year from Australia once the industry is under way.

page 2389

FISH MEAL AND OIL

Extending Narooma Plant

The Narooma Fish Canning Proprietary Limited has arranged to install up-to-date fish meal reducing plant.

It is claimed that this will be the only one of its kind in Australia. This machine covers the oil and turns the offal into fish meal and fertilizer. It is intended to install this machine in February, which may entail closing the factory for a few weeks.

These reports indicate very clearly the remarkable developments that have occurred in Australia recently. We have now reached a more promising stage than would have been thought, possible some time ago. We are in a better position to launch this industry than were the American or Canadian people when they started to develop their fishing industry many years ago. We have all of the requisite information concerning the presence of the fish around our coast and their habits. The next step is to provide ways and means to catch, process and market the fish. The existing circumstances are remarkably favorable for the development of the industry. Private enterprise is willing to invest in the industry. All that is needed is some measure of encouragement to those who desire to catch the fish in order to supply the factories. I have talked with the officers of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, who have been interested in this subject, and I have been impressed by their sincerity, initiative and enterprise. They are anxious to do something practical to put the industry on its feet. The excellent work done by our fisheries research vessel and the aeroplane that has been working in association with it has provided us with the scientific background. Now it is necessary that practical steps should be taken to take advan tage of the information that has been collated by the scientists. In view of the disturbed shipping position throughout the world, it is hardly likely that we shall be able to continue to obtain supplies of imported fish in the same quantity and with the same ease as in normal times.

I have a number of photographs that I shall be pleased to show to honorable members respecting this industry. I have been told by persons who are competent to express a reliable opinion, that we have “ square miles of fish almost as valuable as sheep “. In these circumstances the Government should take active steps to encourage further developments. Those engaged in the fishing industry in the United States of America travel up to 3,000 miles to obtain supplies of tuna, and they employ vessels costing up to £60,000 in the work. We would not need vessels of that size or so costly for we have the fish almost at our door. Smaller vessels would be adequate provided they were of suitable design and capable of handling the fish expeditiously. Last year one Australian firm processed about 50 tons of tuna. This year it is prepared to process. 1,000 tons if the fish are available. The processing factory at Flinders Islam! cost about £20,000 and it could handle very large quantities of fish. Now is the time for us to exert ourselves to develop this industry, for we shall not be subjected to such severe competition as W( should meet in normal times.

I hope that the Government will be sympathetic towards this industry. It should be prepared, in my opinion, to assist either individual fishermen or groups of fishermen to acquire vessels to engage in the industry. It is probable that very few individual fishermen or even groups of fishermen will be able to furnish the capital required to obtain vessels suitable for this work, so the Government should come to their aid. Ordinary fishing vessels are not suitable, first, because they are too small and, secondly, because their speed is insufficient. I am informed that tuna swim at the rate of from 8 to 10 knots an hour, so vessels of a fairly good class are required for the industry.

I now draw attention to the following report, which appeared in The Fishing

News, London, on the 11th March, 1939”:- . . .

page 2390

STATE AID FOR THE HERRING INDUSTRY

£250,000 Scheme Announced.

Grants and Loans Towards Cost of Motor-Boats

Schemes providing for grants and loans to herring fishermen for new motor-boats were announcedbythe Scottish Office at, the weekend. The grants are authorized under the Herring- Industry Act 1938, and £250,000 has been made available to the Herring Industry Board for them.

The object of the grants is to help efficient and industrious fishermen to acquire new motor-boats, and thecharacter, experience and record of applicants, and their prospects of being able to operate a motor-boat successfully, will be taken into account.

For the present the boats for which grants will be made must be from55 ft. to 75 ft. in length overall and the engines, must be constructed in Great Britain. One-tenth of the cost must be provided by the applicants themselves, and the total grant will not exceed one-third of the cost.

Scope of Loans. In addition, loans to assist in the construction of new motor-boats are made available under a scheme madeunder the Act of 1935. The maximum loanis twothirds of the cost of the boat. The loans will bear interestat 3¾ per cent. and will be repayable within 20 years.

Grants will not be made to fishermen whose finances are seriously embarrassed, it is stated. Applications may be in respect of either the full or part ownership of a boat and may be made by individual herring fishermen or by two or more such fishermen jointly ….

It will thus be seen that active steps are being taken in other countries, particularly in- Great Britain, to develop the fishing industry, and Australia should not lag behind. We shall need to find ways and means to rehabilitate our soldiers in civil and commercial life after the war, and I suggest that the fishing industry offers bright prospects in this regard. We import tinned fish to the value of about £1,000,000 a year. Tuna is regarded by experts as “ the chicken of the sea “. It is a delicacy and, with a little encouragement, a very valuable market for it could be developed in Australia. I am satisfied that we could sell £1,000,000 worth of this fish on the local market, and we could probably export another £500,000 worth. I emphasize the urgency of this matter. We have the factories available for processing; we have an almost unlimited supply of the fish in accessible waters ; and we have private investors nibbling. As a . matter of fact, they are biting pretty well. At present there is a shortage of suitable fishing vessels to supply the factories now in existence and thosewhich will be established during the next few years. . I suggest that the Minister in charge of the House, if he is sufficiently interested, should pay a visit to Dr. Thompson, who has in his possession photographs showing schools of fish square miles in extent. Edible fish abound in all Australian waters but more particularly in the Tasmanian because of the cooler climate. I myself have photographs here in Canberra showing, huge schools of fish following the mutton birds across the sea, because they live on practically the same kind of food as the mutton birds. The pictures show the fish creating a wave as they move through the water. I propose to exhibit those photographs in the library for the information of honorable members.

I hope that the Minister will place my representations before Cabinet because I regard the matter as a very urgent one. I am satisfied that, unless Australia develops this industry immediately, in the near future people of another country will venture into our waters and take the fish which we ourselves should be catching. I have good reasons for making that statement because I have been interesting myself in this subject for some time. There is ample evidence showing that another Pacific country is seeking new fishing grounds, to compensate for other grounds which they have lost in recent years. They are an enterprising race and will not hesitate to invest far more than the £30,000 or £50,000 which I am now suggesting should be made available by the Commonwealth Government. Once they know the extent to which fish abound in Australian waters, they will be prepared to invest hundreds of thousands of pounds. I am also satisfied that they would pay little regard to the territorial limit. I hope that the Government will give serious consideration to the suggestions I am making. Small fishing vessels would cost only from £3,500 to £5,000 each. I am making these suggestions “now’ because I - think that the fishing industry could be of great value to Australia and would provide an extensive avenue of employment to many men who will be thrown on to the labour market at the conclusion of the war.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- I am pleased that honorable members have had placed before them before Parliament adjourns the Auditor-General’s report for the last financial year. Unfortunately, the report was only placed in our hands yesterday and we have not had much time to peruse it.

A gratifying feature of the report is the statement that defalcations throughout the Public Service for the year amounted to only £648. In view of the huge sums handled by public servants annually, that small figure is very creditable indeed.

I should like the Acting Treasurer to note the Auditor-General’s comments on page 11 of the report in connexion with our short-term debt. That statement shows that the total amount of short-term loans at the 30th June, 1939, was approximately £77,000,000, of which figure approximately £40,000,000 was in respect of New South Wales, while the Commonwealth had only £5,000,000. I should like to have some information on that subject. It seems to be quite normal, because the figures for the previous year appear to be somewhat similar.

I should also like some information regarding the item “ Miscellaneous receipts, £22,983 “, appearing in the Australian Capital Territory accounts. It is impossible to tell from an examination of the Australian Capital Territory statement just what exactly is the result of the operations of the Government hostels during the year, and probably the figures for those hostels are included in the item “ Miscellaneous receipts “.

I notice also in the accounts of the Australian Capital Territory that a sum of £1,066 was written off the amount owing for arrears of rent. The total arrears of rent in the Australian Capital Territory at the conclusion of the financial year under review was approximately £9,000. Fifty-nine persons owed more than £50 each, and sixteen persons owed more than £100 each. I think that some investigation should be made in connexion with these large amounts of arrears.

In connexion with the manufacture of dies, jigs, and fixtures, the AuditorGeneral has made a comment which, I think, calls for some explanation. He states that the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street) approved on departmental papers of expenditure, estimated at £31,000, for dies, jigs and fixtures. He goes on to say-

Perusal of the departmental correspondence shows that, owing to changes in design, many of the dies, jigs, and fixtures manufactured either in total or in part are now unsuitable for the purpose contemplated. It is understood that much of the. work was done from drawings which became out of date. New designs were in the department on the 21st July, 1939.

The next paragraph is the one to which I wish to draw particular attention -

The mistake, which may be a costly one, occurred apparently to efforts to hasten the production and to misunderstandings between thu authorities responsible for placing the order. A departmental officer will survey this equipment in order that a decision might be arrived at in respect of its proposal.

I think that some inquiry should be made and a report made to the House in this connexion.

Dealing with the Australian Broadcasting Commission, the Auditor-General says -

The amount of £503,32/ paid to revenue is offset to a large degree by the expenditure involved in ‘ the responsibility of the PostmasterGeneral’s Department for the provision and operation of all technical services associated with the transmission of programmes. 1 have previously drawn attention to the fact that, in its statement of accounts, the Australian Broadcasting Commission shows only part of the fees collected in Australia. The statement for last year shows that the revenue from licence-fees amounted to approximately £658,000. In view of the fact that there are more than a million licences held in Australia, it is quite clear that the statement does not cover the whole amount. The remainder is taken by the Postmaster-General’s Department and included in the receipts of that department. I contend that the whole sum should be shown, either in the Postmaster-General’s statement or in the Australian Broadcasting Commission’s statement, together with a set-off for the amount paid to either one or the other. I understand that the PostmasterGeneral’s Department takes a certain percentage of each licence-fee to cover the cost of technical services. That is an arbitrary amount fixed permanently, but I think that the Postmaster-General’s

Department should keep a proper account of the costs which it incurs in connexion with broadcasting, and that it should, be paid directly out of the wireless fees.

In appendix A of the report, dealing with payments without vouchers, the Auditor-General draws attention to the fact that vouchers totalling £4,356 2s. 4d. were lost in the Accounts Branch of the Department of the Interior at Darwin, between the time of the payment of that amount and the audit inspection thereof. It seems curious that so many vouchers should go astray, and some explanation should be given.

I wish now to refer to a matter which was dealt with earlier this session, namely, the suggested introduction of a wartime profits tax. I trust that, if a wartime profits tax is introduced, it will be on a different basis from that which operated during the last war. It was possible, under conditions which then existed, for a firm which was making a net profit of 00 per cent, to escape this tax, whereas another business which was only making say, 10 per cent., was liable to taxation. That was due to the fact that taxable profits under the Wartime Profits Tax Act were profits in excess of the wartime standard. A taxpayer had the right to claim any two of the previous three years for the purpose of arriving at the prewar standard. Further, the increase of capital was taken into consideration ; that included, not only capital subscribed, but also increases of reserves of undistributed profits. There is no doubt that the Wartime Profits Tax Act did not achieve the results expected. I know that to be a fact because I had something to do with the operation of that legislation. Numerous concerns, making large profits, escaped taxation, whereas others which did not make anything like the same rate of profit were liable. My own opinion is that it would be more equitable to impose an income tax on a graduated scale, the principle being “ the higher the profits the greater the tax”. I am satisfied that if a wartime profits tax is introduced again it should certainly not be on the lines of that introduced during the last war. I mention that because there have been two or three suggestions that the Government should re-introduce a wartime profits tax.

Mr BLACKBURN:
Bourke

– Every body must recognize the futility of Parliamentary control of expenditure conducted in this way. The Government is endeavouring to end this period of the session to-morrow and has even now a’’ very large business sheet still to be dis-‘ posed of. We have been discussing the Works Estimates all day to-day, and now at this late hour we are proceeding with the resumed discussion of the financial statement. We have been sitting for the best part of twelve hours and at the same rate for several days. It is quite clear that there can be no parliamentary control of Government expenditure when the business of the Parliament is being conducted in this way.

I do not desire to make a speech on general matters; I prefer to use this opportunity to deal with a matter which I have been waiting a fortnight to discuss. I refer to the quality of the boots supplied for the use of the military forces. In the Melbourne Herald of the 21st November last there appears this statement referring to the military camp at Puckapunyal -

Boots, on which the Government claims to have saved £20,000 are in some cases of such poor quality that pairs issued only three weeks ago when the men were at the Showgrounds Camp have had to be returned for replacement.

Many mcn are wearing boots only a few weeks old (branded “Made in 1939”), which arc cracked across the soles where they bend in marching.

On the 22nd of November last, the Melbourne Herald printed a photograph of a pair of boots. The legend underneath read -

These boots, made in 1939, were issued to a member of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force when he was at the Showgrounds three weeks ago. They are now badly worn, and have had to be sent in for replacement at Puckapunyal, where the wearer is now in camp. The Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) announced that a saving of £20,000 had been effected by the Government in its purchase of boots for the Army. Members of the boot trade and others have since claimed that some of the boots are of very poor quality.

I wish it to be understood at the outset of my remarks that I do not in any way criticize the Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) for his attempt to effect a saving; I merely wish to submit to the committee facts which I think will lead it to believe that this saving is being effected, not at the expense of boot manufacturers, but at the expense of the soldiers. I believe that I can show that the soldiers are being supplied with boots unfit for them to wear. It has been said that an army marches on its stomach; it is much more obvious, I think, that an army marches on its feet, and the comfort and durability of its footwear is of much more importance to the Government than the actual saving made by fixing a low price for boots. The Minister referred to a combination of boot manufacturers. I have received some information regarding this matter from a boot manufacturer - not a member of the combination - who supplied 500,000 boots to the military authorities during the last war, and who was an unsuccessful tenderer for boots on this occasion. The tender price for his boot was 14s. 8d. It is stated by independent authorities that a boot suitable for the use of soldiers cannot be made at a lower price. I have a number of samples of boots. The boot which I now show to honorable members was made in 1915 by Whybrow and Company Proprietary Limited. It is an excellent boot in every way. That company is not concerned in this matter as it did not submit a tender. The boot which I now show honorable members was manufactured by Chas. Trescowthick, the tender price being also 14s. 8d. A great deal of correspondence has passed between Mr. Trescowthick and the Contract Board. In October last,- he offered to supply a similar boot at 13s.1d., but stated that he could not make a firm offer because of expected fluctuations of the price of leather. Later, in the same month, he tendered for the supply of a similar boot - the (specifications had not been changed - at 14s. 8d., indicating that the increase was due to the fact that leather and other manufacturing requirements had increased in price, and also that the tender of 14s. 8d. was not profitable, and that a price of 15s. 3d. was barely sufficient to cover costs of manufacture, plus a margin of 5- per cent. He said, however, that he was prepared to accept 14s. 8d. His tender was not accepted, and therefore he was not concerned in this dispute. Mr. Thomas Richards, who occupies the dual position of general secretary of the Australian Boot Trade Employees Federationand secretary of the Victorian branch of the federation, and who was an examiner of boots during the last war and is regarded as a competent authority and a man of great experience in the boot industry, had some comments to offer in regard to this matter. Mr. Richards is a competent, reliable and independent man. The honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) who was a boot operative and who is still a member of the union, will vouch for the accuracy of my estimation of the worth of that gentleman. Mr. Richards said that boots supplied to soldiers are not fit for them to wear, but that nothing better could be expected at the price the government had fixed. The price fixed by the Government does not enable boot manufacturers to make a boot fit for soldiers to wear which will stand wear, not only here, hut also in the much greater trials to which it will be put.

Mr. Trescowthick says that the boot which he made in accordance with the departmental specifications could not be manufactured at a price lower than 14s. 8d., and Mr. Richards agrees with that. The boots which the Government is accepting are of much inferior quality. I have samples of them. I now show honorable members a sample boot supplied by the firm of McMurtrie and Company Proprietary Limited. Although it appears to be a good boot, if honorable members will examine the upper they will see that it is made of spongy leather which will absorb water. The leather used in the upper is described as offal.

Mr Harrison:

– Is that one of the boots over which the controversy has raged?

Mr BLACKBURN:

– It was supplied by the firm to which a contract has been let.

Mr Harrison:

– And with regard to which the Minister made a statement recently in the House?

Mr.BLACKBURN.- I do not know whether the Minister mentioned McMurtrie and Company Proprietary Limited. This boot has been handed to me with a statement that similar boots have been manufactured for the department and issued to the troops, not perhaps recently, but some time ago. There has, however, been no recent change in the departmental specifications. This may. or may not be, a wartime boot; I am not sure on the point.

Mr White:

– This sample is definitely inferior to the boot produced by Mr. Trescowthick.

Mr BLACKBURN:

– That is so. As I have said, the upper is made of spongy inferior leather which would absorb water. I now show honorable members a boot made by an Adelaide tenderer. The leather in this boot is probably stiffer than the boot supplied by McMurtrie and Company Proprietary Limited, but it is of inferior quality. It is far from being a satisfactory boot. It must be perfectly obvious to anybody that in-. ferior leather is used, not only inthe upper, but also in the heel. These two boots are very bad, though I am told that they are by no means exceptional. There are a great number of bad boots being supplied to soldiers.

Mr White:

– Does the honorable member know what Whybrow and Company Proprietary Limited charged for boots supplied during the last war?

Mr BLACKBURN:

– No. Every body must commend the Minister for his attempts to prevent profiteering, but we are in. danger of escaping from the Scylla of extortionate prices to the Charybdis of inferior boots. It is not desirable that a saving should be made at the expense of the soldier. It is obvious that we would not think of making a saving in food at his expense, and it is equally obvious that a saving in boots made at his expense is a very serious matter indeed. I trust that the Government will give careful consideration to this matter. I am not taking this matter up on behalf of any manufacturer, but the committee should be informed that Mr. Trescowthick was not a party to the suggestion to keep up the price. One of the manufacturers, a sample of whose boots I have produced - I refer to Mr. McMurtrie - was a party to the arrangement, but Mr. Trescowthick put in a price that was lower than the price fixed at the meeting. He said that his price of 14s. 8d. a pair would not enable him to make the normal profit of 8 per cent. The price determined at the meeting was not much in excess of a proper price, but it also appears that some person who was a party to that agreement supplied inferior boots.

Sitting suspended from11.46 p.m. to 12.16 a.m. (Friday).

Friday, 8 December

Mr JENNINGS:
Watson

– It is a matter for regret that the committee will not be afforded an opportunity to discuss the control of the Australian Broadcasting Commission. Next to defence, the subject of broadcasting is one of the most important to which honorable members could direct their attention. Seven years have elapsed since the commission began to exercise its present control, and in that period many changes have taken place in the world of radio. Generally speaking, it may be said that the commission has met these changes with commendable adaptability, having regard to the special requirements of Australia; but that it could escape without criticism was hardly to be expected. I understand that the number of radio licences issued in Australia now totals over 1,300,000, assuming that for every licence there are three listeners that would give a total of 9,000,000 listeners.’ That shows that radio plays an important part in the lives of the people.

I know that, in the field of radio entertainment, it is impossible to please everybody; but a question that is exercising the minds of listeners throughout Australia is, “ Is the commission giving full encouragement to Australian artists, or does it think that the only good things are those which come from overseas?” If it holds the latter view, it is adopting a policy which, I make bold to say, has not the approval of a great body of Australian listeners. The people are, of course, anxious to hear the world’s best artists, many of whom have visited us, but they are also interested in Australian artists - our story writers, radio play writers, elocutionary and dramatic artists, and musicians. If more were done with the local talent that is available, I feel sure that there would be less reason for complaints from the public regarding -the national programmes. I am not unmindful of the fact that the commission has done something to afford encouragement to Australian artists; I merely suggest that it has not done enough. After all, it is using the money of the listeners throughout this country. Artists are brought to Australia from overseas at the expense of the listeners, who may have to be satisfied with hearing them for half an hour over the air, whilst at the same time they are asked to pay as much as half a guinea to hear them in some public hall. I shall not deal with the controversial question of whether it is right for the commission to give such public entertainments in opposition to private firms or individuals who also bring world-famous artists to this country. In view of the fact that the large fees given to those who are brought out by the commission are paid by listeners, it is hard on them to be called upon to pay exorbitant prices to hear a full programme from them in the public halls. If the commission has money to burn, the public should at least be allowed to see and hear visiting artists at a reasonable price.

A decided objection is taken by many listeners to the action of the commission in entering the field of journalism. Again it is the money of the listeners that is being used for this purpose. The licence-fee is paid by listeners in order that they may be provided with broadcasting entertainment, and not for any other purpose: Any surplus revenue in the hands of the commission should be used in improving the programme, and certainly there is room for improvement. The production of a weekly newspaper is not a proper function of the commission. The reason given for this extraordinary procedure is that it is necessary owing to the refusal of city newspapers to print the commission’s programmes, in extenso. If the public needs information regarding the programmes, all that is necessary is a programme sheet, not a newspaper. I thought that listeners were fairly well provided with that information by the journals that are now published to deal particularly with broadcasting. I am quite at a loss to understand why the commission should have taken this extraordinary course, merely because the daily newspapers, which are run on business lines, ask for the programmes to be treated as advertising matter and paid for accordingly. As it is, they publish the broadcasting highlights from day to day without charge.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– What would the publication of the programmes in the newspapers have cost?

Mr Harrison:

– About £90,000 a year.

Mr JENNINGS:

– But is all that expenditure necessary? In publishing a journal of its own, the commission is simply following the lead of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

Mr Harrison:

– The corporation in Britain was forced to publish its own journal for the same reason as that which prompted the action taken here.

Mr JENNINGS:

– Are we bound to do everything that other countries do? If this Parliament were given an opportunity to discuss this matter, I believe that it would object to the commission publishing a journal of its own. I suggest that the commission is prone to look at matters through British or American, instead of Australian, eyes.

Since the commission has money to throw about for the running of a newsr paper, which is a very expensive business, it seems obvious that the sum of 21s. a year for a listener’s licence, small as it may appear to be for such a service, is largely in excess of requirements. This fee is double that charged in Great Britain, although it is only fair to point out that Britain is a compact area and has a much larger population than that of Australia. In my opinion, the licencefee here should be reduced to 15s. a year. If the present fee is to be retained, I suggest that the commission should explore other avenues for the expenditure of its funds instead of engaging in the interprise ofnewspaper production. We have been told that the editor will receive £1,500 a year. This is indicative of the grandiose ideas of the commission. The Postmaster-General (Mr. Harrison) should give the committee further information with regard to this journal. I suppose that in addition to publishing the national programmes, advertisements will be accepted. Perhaps we shall soon be told that this newspaper will treat broadcasting as a side-line. It is high time we did a little bit of stocktaking on this subject. When fees are collected from the public, as in this instance, the public has a right to exercise authority over the expenditure of the funds. Therefore, the listeners are entitled to a representative on the commission.

There are many more legitimate outlets for the commission’s funds than the publication of a newspaper. For instance, has the commission thought of the possibility of establishing a national opera house where musical art in Australia may be conserved and encouraged? That would be legitimate expenditure and I feel sure that would meet with public approval.

Mr Harrison:

– Its present revenue is insufficient to enable it to build its own studios.

Mr JENNINGS:

– Yet the commission is able to publish an expensive newspaper.

Mr Harrison:

– The first issue was sold out completely, and if that success is maintained the newspaper will more than pay its way.

Mr JENNINGS:

– The commission cannot be sure that that success will continue. The journal has to be published ten days before it is issued; therefore it cannot be said to contain “ last minute “ news. I suggest that the commission should consider the suggestion to establish a national opera house. It could bring out some of the world-famous opera singers, and also encourage our own artists, thus improving our musical standards.

The control of radio should be divorced entirely from party politics. Of course, during a national emergency, the Government may have to do things which ordinarily it would not do, but there should be no political favoritism, so far as the national stations are concerned. I am not suggesting that there has been such favoritism in the past. I believe that, on the whole, the commission has endeavoured to hold the scales evenly in this connexion, and this is as it should be in a democratic country. I merely point out that the Opposition should enjoy equal rights with the Government on national stations. Radio has become a mightyforce which this Parliament can control. The future of our democracy will largely depend on the way in which we deal with this and other problems.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– I was very disappointed with the financial statement presented by the Acting Treasurer (Mr: Spender). The Government should have made a more serious attempt to deal with the unemployment problem. Unemployment is increasing, particularly since the outbreak of war. The Government claims that expenditure on defence will do much to relieve unemployment, but, so far as I can see, it has not had much effect in Queensland, at any rate. Very little money is being expended there on defence, whilst thousands of persons have been thrown out of employment because of the war. This Government has failed in its duty to the unemployed, particularly those in Brisbane, and” throughout Queensland generally. A few weeks ago the Brisbane City Council was compelled to dismiss 1,500 employees because it could not obtain loan money with which to carry on its works programme. The Loan Council gave it permission to borrow up to £1,000,000, but wherever the Council tried to raise the money it was told that no loan money was available. The Commonwealth Government could easily have come to the rescue of the council by compelling the» Commonwealth Bank to advance the money. It must be admitted that Brisbane has been a long way behind the times in regard to sewerage. It is only within the last few years that this work has been undertaken seriously, though- every one knows what a menace to the health of a community is an unsewered city.

In my opinion, the decision of the Government to introduce compulsory military training is against the best interests of the defence forces. The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) has in this respect broken all the promises made during the last four or five years by his predecessor and himself.

Mr Harrison:

– Did the present Prime Minister ever say that he was opposed to compulsory training?

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Prime Minister has stated in this House and outside that he would honour the promise of the late Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) in this regard. However, he has evidently been forced into breaking his promise and the promise of the late Prime Minister, given during the last federal election campaign.

Mr Harrison:

– That promise had to do with conscription.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– It had to tlo with conscription, and also with compulsory training for home defence. If the Government had dealt fairly by the voluntarily-enlisted men there would have been no need to introduce compulsion. Together with other honorable members, including the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis), I took a fairly prominent part in the recruiting drive launched by the Government eighteen months ago. There was no dearth of recruits at that time. We tried to induce the Government to accept recruits from the outlying parts of Queensland, such as the electorate of Kennedy, and elsewhere. Men from those parts offered in thousands, but they -were told that no training facilities existed in their districts.

Mr Francis:

– Queensland was the first to fill its quota.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Government promised that trainees would be paid 8s. a day, but now it has broken that promise. Instead of 8s. a day they were paid 5s., and but for the action of honorable members on this side of the House, who forced the hand of the Government, they would still be receiving only 5s. a day. Apart from the matter of pay, the Government has not treated trainees properly. During the last session of Parliament, I complained to the Minister for Defence about the way in which trainees were treated in the Enoggera camp. An investigation was held, and the report upheld my complaint. It was found that there was much sickness because of the insanitary state of the camp. There was no necessity for the introduction of compulsory military training. Had the Government, treated the members of the Militia, properly, sufficient men would ha ve volunteered to meet all requirements.

There have been many complaints regarding the treatment of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force in Queensland, and according to press reports, similar complaints have been made in the other States. The Minister may say that the complaints are not justified, but I remind him that “where there is smoke there is (‘we “. I do not hold the Minister responsible for what has happened, as it would be impossible for him to know all that takes place in the various camps throughout Australia. Following complaints which were brought under my notice some, week ago, I visited the new Redbank camp at Brisbane, in company with other honorable members from that State. I understand that this is to be a permanent, camp which will take the place of the one at Enoggera. I found the officer in charge of construction to be an excellent man. Nevertheless, the job is being only half done. I agree with the right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page) about the need for proper sanitary arrangements at all of the camps. Action in this direction is urgently necessary at the Redbank camp.

Mr White:

– The same thing applies to the camp at Puckapunyal, in Victoria.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Redbank camp is divided by a road. On one side of the road, huts, which I believe to be entirely satisfactory, have been built. In that portion of the camp . there is also good mess accommodation. But on the other side of the road conditions arc entirely different. The men are housed in tents, because, I understand, not sufficient money has been made available for the building of huts. The position is that while some of the men are housed comfortably in huts, others remain under canvas. I hope that the Minister will see that sufficient money is made available to equip the whole of the camp with huts, and also that proper mess accommodation will be provided in both portions of it.

Although the engineer in charge has done his utmost to provide the camp with suitable sanitary services, the arrangements at Redbank are far from satisfactory. The sewage I’.ow? into a low-lying area, where it is treated, not in septic tanks as was advocated by the right honorable member for Cowper, but in lime pits. That treatment is entirely unsuitable in the hot climate of Brisbane, and I believe that these pits will constitute a menace to the health, not only of the men in the camp, but also of people living in the vicinity. It is possible that when heavy rain falls, in the wet season, the lime pits will overflow and pollute the river, which is only a. short distance away. As the camp is likely to be occupied permanently, this matter should be attended to.

The disabilities suffered by some of the 70 men who enlisted, but were subsequently discharged from camp in Queensland, I have already brought under the notice of the Minister. I believe that those men have been unjustly treated. No man should be allowed to go into camp until he has been proved to be medically fit to carry out his duties as a soldier. With a competent staff of medical officers, such as exists in every State, it should be possible to avoid men being sent into camp only to be discharged later because of medical unfitness. The cases of several men who left good positions in order to enlist in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force have been brought under my notice. One of them sold his busi ness in order to enlist, and when discharged had no job to go to. The position of a few men who enlisted in country districts, and prior to leaving home Were farewelled and given presentations, is most embarrassing. They fear that their friends will think that they were discharged for causes other than medical unfitness. The Defence Department should not enlist men and put them into camp until it is satisfied that they are medically fit to go on with the job, and I hope that some action will be taken to avoid a repetition of these occurrences. I have received the following state- ment. -

  1. Were any of you men officially notified prior to the 1st November, that you would be required to undergo a second medical examination as to your fitness to remain in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force? - No.
  2. What prospects have you of being reinstated in your position ? - Nil.
  3. Did you relinquish a position to enlist? - Four did, the fifth sold his business.
  4. What steps have the Defence Department taken to rehabilitate you in civil life? - None whatever.
Mr Street:

– I offered to investigate those cases.

Mr Ward:

– Has the Minister done so?

Mr Street:

– I have not even been supplied with the names.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– I do not blame the Minister, because I know that he is doing everything in his power to ensure that the men will receive a fair deal ; but he cannot know what is happening in every State. If the Minister visits the Red bank camp he will be able to verify what I have said. The statement continues : -

  1. Are you suffering hardship as the result of your belated rejection for the 2nd Australian Imperial Force? - Definitely.
  2. Were’ you able to satisfactorily carry out your military duties while at Redbank? - Yes, at all times.
  3. Has any disciplinary charge been made against you while at Redbank? - No.
  4. I understand that owing to enlisting facilities not being available in your home town you attested in Brisbane? - Yes.
  5. Have any of you found any difficulty in obtaining from the Defence Department a railway warrant to enable you to return to your home town? - Have not applied, but understand warrants will not be issued.
  6. What steps, if any, has the Government made to provide sustenance until such time as you can obtain the employment which you relinquished to enlist? - Nil. Paid for three days after discharge. 11.Is it a fact that after being discharged from the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, you have re-enlisted in another name, having been okay’d by the same medical officer who was on the board which discharged you as medically unfit? - One is definitely known to have done so. (This man was present,but he does not desire his name to be divulged).

Of the five persons I have mentioned two have re-enlisted, one under his correct name and the other under an assumed name. Both were re-examined and passed by the doctors who had declared them physically unfit. There must be something radically wrong with the medical inspections conducted in Brisbane. One of the discharged men was an employee of the Postmaster-General’s Department, and when he applied for re-instatement he was told that his job had been filled. That is a striking indication of the manner in which these brave men are treated by the Government.

I also protest strongly against the action of the Government in sending men who have been trained at the Redbank camp to complete their training in other States. I have received numerous protests from organizations, including one representing returned soldiers and various public and private bodies in Queensland, which contend that the despatch of approximately 3,000 troops to other States will inflict considerable hardship upon the business people in Brisbane and suburbs. Surely there are sufficient competent officers in Queensland to train these men, and thus avoid the expense and inconvenience of sending them to other States. This is particularly unjust when we recall that during the last twelve or eighteen months very little money has been expended on defence in Queensland. In fact, Queensland has received worse treatment in that respect than that of any other part of the Commonwealth. Especially having regard to its extensive and unprotected coastline.

I am ako strongly opposed to the decision of the Government to despatch an expeditionary force overseas. The newspapers have stated that the British Government has not asked the Commonwealth Government to send troops from Australia. The British Prime Minister said that the best contribution we can make is to provide large quantities of essential foodstuffs. Britain and France have an adequate number of trained men already on the. Western Front, and at present there are over 1,500,000 soldiers

Hilder canvas in England. Even to-day the general international situation is very obscure, and it is difficult to determine the action likely to be taken by neutral nations. The members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force should bc retained iu Australia to protect this country against invasion. As a result of the action taken by the Labour party in this chamber, the Government was forced to stand up to its responsibilities and increase the pay of the members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. We “lined up” the members of the Country party; but as usual they “squibbed” when it came to the test. The members of the expeditionary force should receive at least an amount equivalent to that paid during the last war. Under strong pressure the Government eventually increased the rate of deferred pay by ls. a clay, but the increase is insufficient. They should receive at least 8s. a day, plus the additional allowances sought in respect of wives and children. Some guarantee should be given to the men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force that on their return to Australia they will receive better treatment than was meted out to the men of the 1st Australian Imperial Force, who wore promised the world before their departure for overseas, but came back to disillusionment. I know hundreds of returned soldiers and soldiers’ widows who have been unable to get pensions or any assistance from the Commonwealth Government. The men of the 2nd Australian Imperial

Force must be given a guarantee that, when they come back, their jobs will still be open to them and that, if they are in any way physically affected as the result of their service, they shall be given pensions without their having to break through all the red tape in which the existing repatriation system is enmeshed. I still entertain the hope that wiser counsels will prevail in Europe and that this war will be of such short duration that all of the men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force will return to their homes without having had combatant service. I hope also that they will return to find another government in power, because I am convinced that after the shabby way in which this Government has treated our soldiers it cannot hope to survive the next election.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr MCEWEN:
Indi

.- I take this opportunity to refer to some of the conditions affecting the wartime marketing of Australia’s primary products. I regret that when this subject was brought before honorable members on a previous occasion, the debate was adjourned after an hour or two, giving many of us no chance to attack the subject. At this early hour one cannot go fully into all the conditions affecting our wartime marketing, but there are several matters to which I wish to direct attention. First, I intend to touch upon certain aspects of the agreement between the governments of the Commonwealth and the United Kingdom for the disposal of the Australian wool clip. Most graziers share my belief that the” Commonwealth Government accepted a breadline figure when it agreed on behalf of the wool-growers to accept an average price for the whole of the clip of 13 7-1 6d. per lb. That is considerably less than the figure set down a? the average cost of production by the expert committee which inquired into the wool industry in 3932 or 1933. That committee, which had the assistance of expert accountants, arrived at 14d. per lb. as the average cost of the production of wool in Australia. That figure was based on a 5 per cent, return on capital. Since that investigation the costs in .the wool industry have risen in every direction. The cost of shearing is higher; the basic wage is higher; interest rates are higher; and every other cost affecting the production of wool has been on an ascending scale. We are faced during this war with the absolute certainty of further increases of production costs in the wool industry. All that we can do now is to comment on these facts, because I presume that the agreement cannot be altered. With other honorable members, I have asked on several occasions that Parliament be acquainted with the terms of the contract, but the Government has not yet,. for reasons that it regards as adequate, acquiesced. I doubt whether it is really written into that contract that the price for the Australian wool clip shall be reviewed from year to year. I believe that this intimation from the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) and the Minister for Commerce (Senator McLeay) that the contract will be reviewed periodically was an afterthought, as nothing was said of this provision when the price and the period of requisition were first announced. The agreements between Australia and Britain for the disposal of other Australian primary products to the British Government contain provision for prices to be reviewed from year to year or after a period of months, but I doubt whether that is so in respect of the wool purchase agreement. My fears are concerned not so much with the wool clip for this year as with the clips in future years, and I hope that the Commonwealth Government will take the very earliest opportunity to intimate to the Government of the. United Kingdom that there must be a review of the price when the next wool clip is in prospect.

Another aspect of this wool purchase agreement that disturbs me is the provision that the Government of the United Kingdom shall share equally with the Australian wool-growers the amount by which returns from the sale by Great Britain of Australian wool to allied and neutral countries exceeds the price paid by Great Britain to Australia for the clip. Those sales of wool will be made at world parity, which should be considerably more than the average of 13 7/1 6d. per lb. The Commonwealth Government should not only explain the reason for this extraordinary provision, but also communicate to the British Government its belief that it is fair that the Australian grower should receive the full amount of the excess return. It is inexplicable why the Australian woolgrowers should be expected to share that money with the United Kingdom.

No official announcement has been made, but we hear that 300,000 bales of wool are to be sold this year to Japan. It would not be in the interests of the Australian wool-growers if the Japanese were denied our wool during the war, and accordingly, I believe that thousands of bales of Australian wool will be sold to Japan at ruling world prices. Japan will thus have available to it the customary quantity of wool that it has been purchasing from Australia for” some years, and the trade connexion will be maintained until peace returns; but Australian wool-growers should receive the full price paid by Japan.

Wool is about the only Australian primary product for which there is no home-consumption price. I appreciate the difficulties that would be associated with the fixing of a home-consumption price for wool under the auction system, but under the existing arrangements for the arbitrary acquisition of the wool, there would be no administrative difficulty in introducing a home-consumption price plan for the period of the war. No logical argument could be advanced against that, because the same principle has been applied to almost every other Australian primary product. Now that the whole of our wool has been brought under one control it would -he a simple matter to apply to this last remaining primary product the principle of the home-consumption price. I offer that as a suggestion to the Government.

I now propose to comment upon the arrangements, insofar as we have been informed of them - and, as yet, details have been most meagre in respect of every one of these transactions - for the disposal of our surplus meat to the United Kingdom Government. I understand that the price has been agreed upon for the sale of this meat up to the 30th September next. These negotiations were conducted by this Government in consul- tation with the Australian Meat Export Control Board. No endeavour was made to deny the fact that a bargain had been struck and a price agreed upon many weeks before the various figures for the different classes of’ meat were released to the public. After that bargain had been struck, the height of the season for the disposal of our export lambs was upon us, and hundreds of thousands of lambs - indeed, it would be no exaggeration to say millions - were being sold by producers to exporters, who knew the price at which those lambs had been sold to the Government of the United Kingdom, whereas the producers had not that knowledge. I do not mean that the Government specially communicated the information to the exporters, but it would be childish .to suggest that,, being represented on tho Australian Meat Export Control Board which advised the Government in these negotiations, the exporters were not informed of the price agreed upon, or that, their representatives on the board would not, by some devious moans, if not directly, communicate that, knowledge to their principals. It could scarcely be seriously said that representatives of export firms on the board, once they obtained such knowledge, would fail to give their principals a clear hint as to the price agreed upon.

Mr Pollard:

– A royal commission should he appointed to inquire into the mutter.

Mr Mcewen:

– i agree with the honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. Pollard) that this matter is so scandalous as to call for parliamentary explanation. Prom the facts I have given, it can reasonably be deduced that whilst the exporting firms were in. possession of this knowledge, the producers were forced by seasonal conditions to dispose of hundreds of thousands, and, perhaps, millions, of lambs without any knowledge of the fixed price for sale to the United Kingdom. In the ordinary course of his business, the buyer of meat for export is obliged to contend with an element of peculation, but. in this instance, that clement was absent because he knew before he purchased the carcasses the price at which they had been disposed of to die United Kingdom Government. Thus, in effect, he had a double-headed penny, because the producers were not in possession of the same knowledge. This matter is most serious. The Government should at least oner some explanation, if any be possible, of these circumstances. I approached the Assistant Minister for Commerce (Senator McBride) during the period to which I refer, and placed before him the views which I have expressed. I know that I was not alone in making such representations to the Minister and Assistant Minister. However, no action was taken until the height of the export season had passed. I presume that similar conditions applied in respect of sales of beef and pig meat. It is not possible to turn back the clock, and it is impossible to give back to the producers the money they lost in these transactions. However, this experience should at least be a warning to the Government to ensure that during the war these scandalous circumstances shall not recur in connexion with the disposal of our primary products. I should like to deal at greater length with this matter, but I propose to discuss other subjects.

I -take this opportunity to offer some constructive suggestions with regard to the sale of our meat. In present circumstances, under which, during the period of the war, Australia’s surplus meat is to be sold at an agreed and fixed price, no justification can be advanced for the sale by auction of stock which are to be converted into this meat. At the present time-, probably 100,000 head of lambs and sheep are being sold weekly by auction at the Newmarket yards in Melbourne alone. Any one who visits those sales will at once notice the wide fluctuation of price, ranging from ls. to ls. 6d., from lane to lane. Press reports of the sales show that lambs are quoted as being up ls. 6d. one week or down ls. the next. Whilst the producers are penalized by these fluctuations, the price to the exporter, once these lambs are placed upon the hook, does not vary. Not only do these fluctuations in price mean inevitable loss to the producer, but the producer is also being “ stung “ in another way, inasmuch as he. is paying agent’s commission on every head of stock sold. No justification exists for the payment of such commission, because the agent to-day is not finding a buyer or seller. This Government is finding the buyer, all of this stock having been sold to the

British Government. Therefore, no agent can be said to earn this commission by finding a buyer. Neither is he earning it by extending credit, because one of the conditions of sales at the Melbourne yards is that spot cash must be paid by all buyers. To-day, however, agents operating in those yards are claiming from £4,000 to £5,000 a week commission upon the sale of live stock, the carcasses of which have already been sold by this Government to the British Government. Surely no justification exists for the continuance of this practice. Instead of sending stock for export to saleyards where they are harried - owing to the fact that only two sales a week are held, many must be held for days before being slaughtered - a more sensible method would be to send them directly from the farms to the export works, where they could be slaughtered immediately and graded on the hook, the producer to be paid according to the grades. The same official who grades the carcasses for the purpose of deciding the price at which they shall be sold to the United Kingdom should assess the grade in order to determine the price to be paid to the producer.

Mr Street:

-What about the stock for home consumption ?

Mr McEWEN:

– It is perfectly obvious that as the bulk of our livestock is being exported, the export price will automatically fix the home-consumption price. No difficulty would be experienced in respect of stock for home consumption.

Mr Wilson:

– The export price would automatically be the minimum price.

Mr McEWEN:

– Yes, because to-day the export price in practice fixes the mini mum price in the yards.

Another matter with which I wish to deal is the acquisition of barley by the Barley Board. The board insists that barley shall be put in new sacks, and if any producer puts his barley in secondhand sacks, the board re-bags such grain and charges to the producer the cost of the new bags. It would be far more sensible to direct the board to allow the producers to put their grain into sound second-hand bags, as has been their practice for years. We are aware of the problem confronting the wheat-grower, who is obliged to followthe practice of the trade and to put his grain into new bags when the price of bags has soared so high. The Barley Board’s insistence on this practice adds considerably to the burden of the grower, particularly when his returns from the pool are doubtful. The Minister suggested that a return of 9d. a bushel for feed barley is contemplated. Therefore, the ‘advance on a 3-bushel bag would be 2s. 3d. As a new sack may cost up to1s. 3d., the producer, on that basis, will net only1s. after paying for the sack. I urge the Minister to take this matter up with the Barley Board.

The last matter which I propose to raise is in connexion with the proposed acquisition of fresh pears.I presume that the policy of this Government in connexion with the acquisition of our primary products is not to interfere with the established conditions in an industry, except in special circumstances arising from the war, and only then in order to protect the majority of the people concerned in that industry. If that is the principle upon which this non-socialistic Government has worked, I should be surprised to find it taking the opportunity provided by the war to interfere in any industry which is able to maintain its operations normally under wartime conditions. The pear-growers should be permitted to dispose of their crop in Australia without any compulsory acquisition, seeing that they are confident that they would be able to do so through the ordinary trade channels.I understand that the Minister for Commerce sought the advice of the Apple and Pear Export Control Board on the advisability of acquiring the entire crop of apples and pears in Australia this year in order to regulate and control the disposal of it. The board, I believe, advised that this should be done. That is the reason for the arbitrary acquisition of the crop. I point out a most serious anomaly in respect of the seeking of this advice from the board. The bulk of the’ export trade in apples and pears is done from Tasmania and Western Australia. Consequently and rightly, substantial representation was given to those States on the board. In a personnel of fifteen members, Tasmania and Western Australia have eight representatives, so they constitute an outright majority. But this board should hot have been asked to give advice on the disposal of the whole of Australia’s production, for when we compare the whole production of , apples and pears with the export surplus, the position of Tasmania and Western Australia does not loom large. 1 consider that the Government was ill-advised to seek the advice of an inequitably-balanced board of this kind. An examination of the available statistical information shows that Victoria alone produces three-fifths of the fresh pears grown in Australia, and that Victoria, and New South Wales together produce four-fifths of the entire crop. South ‘ Australia grows more pears than Tasmania. In these circumstances it was unfair to the industry as a whole for the Government to be guided by the advice of the Export Control Board. I am informed that the crop of fresh pears this year will be light. As this applies to Victoria and New South Wales, which produce four-fifths of the output, it must be true of the total crop. Those who engage in the disposal of fresh pears regularly have no doubt whatever that, as the result of the light crop, and also of the increased demand from canneries, there will be no difficulty whatever in disposing profitably of our entire pear crop. One company in the Goulburn Valley in my electorate, which is the premier pear-producing district of Australia, has intimated to the growers that it is prepared to purchase all the fresh pears grown in the Goulburn Valley this year on the basis of 5s. 6d. a bushel case naked, that is, without packing expenses or anything of the kind. This company customarily purchases the pears grown in this district, and it is willing to do so this year, notwithstanding that there may be great difficulty in regard to shipping; yet under the proposals of the Government the pear-growers will be prohibited from taking advantage of this offer and will be obliged to sell their pears to the Government on an advance of 3s. a case. Last week I introduced to the Minister for Commerce (Senator McLeay) a deputation, fully representative of Victorian and New South Wales growers and of honorable members of this Parliament, which requested that the Government should not proceed with the proposed compulsory acquisition of pears. The growers intimated that, in their opinion, they would experience no difficulty in disposing profitably of their production this year. They were not taking a step in the dark; but were confident that by offering their pears for sale in their principal markets, Sydney and Brisbane, they would find a prompt and satisfactory sale.

Mr Prowse:

– Are the honorable member’s clients prepared to pay the freight on pears from Western Australia tothe Eastern States?

Mr McEWEN:

– I appreciate the position of the pear-growers of Western Australia. The deputation to which I have referred submitted figures to the Minister which indicated that the total production of fresh pears in Australia is recorded as approaching 3,000,000 cases. I have since been told that it may be nearer 5,500,000 bushel cases. Western Australia usually produce 100,000. Of these, 70,000 cases were disposed of within the State, and 30,000 cases were exported. Representatives of the industry in the Eastern States believe that any possible difficulty which the Western Australian growers might experience in. the disposal of the 30,000 cases which they usually export could be overcome, and that this factor should not be allowed to determine the conditions under which the total production shall be sold. The Western Australian export production is a very small factor in the situation, and in any event one merchant in Melbourne has, I understand, “ informed the Minister that he would be quite willing to purchase the whole 30,000 cases at a figure which would be remunerative, to the Western Australian growers. All that he would need would be a small subsidy to assist in meeting the transport cost from Western Australia to the Eastern States. I therefore ask the Government to reconsider its decision in respect of our fresh pear crop this year. A request for such reconsideration has been made by the Southern Victoria Pear Packing Company Limited, the Doncaster Fruitgrowers Association, the Northern Victoria Fruitgrowers Association, the Southern Fruitgrowers Association, the Orchardists and Fruit Cool Stores Association of Victoria and similar organizations in New South Wales. All these bodies are opposed to the compulsory acquisition of fresh pears. They hold the view that the production cai; be disposed of through the’ ordinary .trade channels at satisfactory prices.- The disposal of our pears has been considerably facilitated by the will1ingness df the Government of the United Kingdom to purchase the whole of our production of canned apricots, peaches and pears. This ready sale for canned pears provides for the great bulk of our production, including the considerable quantities of Packhams and Keiffers which will bo canned.

I regret that a more appropriate opportunity has not been made available to honorable members to discuss the effects of the Government’s arrangements for the wartime acquisition of primary products, but I trust that the Ministers at. the table will convey to the Minister for Commerce the representations that I have made.

Mr MULCAHY:
Lang

.I have listened attentively to the request of the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) that the Government should rectify some of the anomalies that exist in regard to the marketing of our primary products. As many of these existed while the honorable gentleman was a Minister he could have done more than he did to remedy them-

Mr-. McEwen. - That is not the case, for we were not at Avar then, and I have been dealing with the wartime acquisition activities of the Government.

Mr MULCAHY:

– The honorable gentleman could certainly have done more that he did tb remedy some of the anomalies to which he has referred. Perhaps he is of the opinion that a little, criticism of the Government may result in. his being received back into the Cabinet; hut somehow I do n’ot think so. I very much doubt whether his request that his representations shall be conveyed to the Prime Minister- will receive any attention at ‘this hour of the morning.

I do hot desire to deal extensively with military camps because that subject has been adequately covered by the honorable member ‘for Brisbane (Mr. George Lawson). No doubt the conditions obtaining in the camps in Queensland also exist iti other parts of Australia; It is readily appreciated that ‘the mobilization of a huge number of men must necessarily involve a little disorgani zation in the camp system. My complaint is in connexion with the contracts let by the Government for constructional work at the camps. Some £4,000 was expended in the construction of huts at the Greta camp in the Maitland district, but no public tenders were called. The work waa done by builders chosen by an advisory panel, and I submit that that is not the best system to follow when dealing with contract’s of this kind. £ know some members’ of these advisory panels, and I would have very little confidence in them. I have ascertained from the Defence Department that a further £38,000 or £40,000 is to be expended later on, and I urge that public tenders be called for any work that is to be done. I feel that the Government is lavishly expending money without due regard to economy. I know that it is the policy of the Government to have as. much of its work as possible done by contract, but in Sydney and in other capital cities there are works department staffs who have nothing to do because even the smallest jobs are let out to a Contractor. Under that policy, as honorable members on both sides of the House know, there is little chance of men who are now out of work securing employment as the result of the expanded works programme. I urge that at least the smaller jobs, which can be more efficiently and economically carried out by day labour, should be left in the hands of the works departments.

I feel also that the Government has not exercised sufficient care with regard to contracts for the supply of military clothing and material. Recently I visited a military camp and had an opportunity to examine the quality of the military overcoats supplied to the men. The material

Av-as very poor indeed arid I was informed that the coats were far from rainproof. Obviously the quality is such that very little warmth would be provided in winter. While I 3o not agree that it is necessary to send a military force overseas, I do hope that, if our soldiers have to go to colder climates, they will be provided with clothing capable of affording adequate protection against, the weather conditions which will bc encountered.

It. is strange that the examiners whom the Government is employing to inspect the quality of clothing being supplied to the Defence Department should be in receipt of only £4 10s. a week, because no doubt these men are competent examiners and are experts in their trade. It is just another indication of the Government’s endeavour to have its work done at as small a cost as possible.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Government is running the war on the cheap.

Mr MULCAHY:

– It is certainly running some things on the cheap. I should also like to touch briefly on the question of instruments and appliances .which are being supplied to repatriation and military hospitals and dental clinics. Although some of that equipment is coming from America, most of it is coming from Japan. It could easily be manufactured in Australia, but local manufacturers have not been given an opportunity to tender. There is one such manufacturer in my electorate. His factory is a small one but it is quite capable of turning out first-class work. The manufacturer, however, is excluded from competition because he does not know when goods are required. I urge- that if supplies can possibly be obtained locally, that should be done.

I draw the attention of honorable members to the long list of unqualified people who are empowered by the Government to authorize purchasers of military stores. In Commonwealth Gazette No. Ill, the following people are authorized by the Government to select purchasers of military stores: -

A member of the Naval Board, a member of the Military Board, a member of the Air Board, an officer commanding His Majesty’s naval squadron, a senior officer at any port, a district naval officer, an officer of the Royal Australian Air Force not below the rank of wing-commander.

What could such officers know about purchasing military stores? While a wing-commander might be an excellent flying man, he might be thoroughly incompetent so far as purchasing stores for his unit is concerned.

Mr White:

– A. wing-commander need not be a flying man at all. Ho might be a technical man.

Mr MULCAHY:

– -That is so, but most of the wing-commanders are flying men. Surely all the people mentioned in the list cannot be regarded as being qualified to select purchasing officers. Unless the greatest possible care is taken, scandal may be caused. Prior to the outbreak of the last war in 1914, there had been no stocktaking of military stores and equipment since 1909. Then came the war, and the purchase of military equipment camo under the control of departmental officers who had no business knowledge whatsoever. At the end of three years, it was found that the New South Wales district alone had on hand £6,000,000 worth of military stores, which was £2,000,000 in excess of what was estimated. Much of that equipment was badly stored and, apart from the decrease of capital value, losses owing to interest and deterioration amounted to about £100,000. New South Wales had in stock, bought, and paid for, 1,000,000 pairs of military boots which cost £700,000. Lying in the stores also were service jackets and material costing £600,000. Some of the £64,000 worth of greatcoats then in stock are being issued to the Militia to-day and they are of better quality than those being turned out now. I do not want to see that sort of thingrepeated when this war is over.

There is no doubt that if we adopt the same old principle of borrowing money to finance our defence expenditure, when the war is over industry will be crippled. In my opinion not one penny should be borrowed, as all necessary finance should be obtained from the Commonwealth Bank. The Sydney press reports the president of the New Smith Wales Rural Bank as having said -

When people see £60,000,000 -provided, for Australian defence measures, they wonder why money cannot be found in peace time. The money for defence would bc enough to clean tip all the slums and give people proper homes. It would provide Australia with huge water conservation and electricity schemes. I must confess that Australia’s banking policy has been just a little hidebound. We may have to change our financial policy after the war.

There is no doubt that Australia’s financial policy is due for drastic revision. Before the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) became a member of this Parliament he advocated a policy on the public platform which was entirely different from that which he advocates to-day. Conditions then were not very different from to-day, mid I have no doubt that the honorable gentleman was mainly concerned about making a popular appeal to the people. The policy he then advocated was almost identical with Labour’s financial policy. We believe that the Commonwealth Bank should finance all public undertakings. The. most unjust feature of our banking system is the payment of interest on Government loans. Credit is created by thu banks on the security of Australia’s national assets. Nothing could be more ridiculous than to continue to pay interest on Government loans. The time is not far distant when the Government will be forced to reform its financial policy. The reformation will be made all the more imperative because of our enormous commitments in respect of the war.

To send an expeditionary force from ti is country, to deplete the very flower of our manhood, and to leave the country at. the mercy of a potential enemy, is a suicidal policy. We should concentrate first on the adequate defence of our own shores. I read in a semi-official journal recently that a responsible Minister in the Queensland Government had stated that hi.« Government has expended £200 on air raid precautions along the Queenslaud coast. As there are 2,000 miles of coast-line in Queensland the efficacy of this expenditure can be left to the imagination of honorable members. I do not blame the Minister for the Army for the inadequacy of those preparations, because I realize that they are carried out by local committees established by the State governments.

Mr Street:

– That is correct. The Premiers of the States undertook to do that work at a. conference held iu this chamber la. st March.

Mr MULCAHY:

– If the people of this country were in danger the national Government should be the first to safeguard thom.

Mr Street:

– It would do so.

Mr MULCAHY:

– The question of anomalies in our Repatriation Act is another matter with which I should like to deal briefly. This question has engaged the attention of honorable members for a long- while, and I was sympathetic towards the proposal of the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) that a select committee should be appointed to inquire into anomalies that arise in the administration of the repatriation legislation. Is it likely that “while these anomalies continue to exist young men will proffer their services for the de-, fence of Australia beyond its shores? The claims of those who were fortunate enough to return from the last war but who suffer war disabilities and find difficulty in getting the department to admit that those disabilities are due to war service, should be given sympathetic consideration. I have no complaints to make with regard to the Repatriation Commission; I believe that it is doing a very good job, but that it is restricted by the provisions of the act, with the result that great distress is inflicted not only on returned soldiers but also on their dependants. I feel sure that the act is not. operating as was intended by Australians 25 years ago.

Mr Makin:

– The difficulties of the returned soldiers are added to by the uncompromising attitude adopted by medical referees.

Mr MULCAHY:

– That is so; I believe that a great many of them do not exercise a wise discretion in respect of many cases submitted to them. When I see so many unemployed ex-soldiers walking the streets to-day, many of them unemployable, I feel that in justice to the young men of this country I should do everything in my power to prevent the despatch of an expeditionary force overseas. The spectacle of the returned soldiers walking the streets, and almost destitute, acts as the greatest deterrent to recruiting. If the Government can find millions of pounds to carry on the ‘war it should be able to find at least an amount sufficient to compensate those whose health has suffered as the result of their experiences during the last war.

I propose now to deal briefly with war service homes, of which there are quite a number in my electorate. I have endeavoured from time to time to get the department to advance the necessary money to enable purchasers to connect their homes to the sewerage service. In every case the reply has been that no money is available for that purpose. These homes are situated in a thickly populated suburb, and it is desirable that this work should be put’ in baud without delay.

To-day when living costs are rising at an alarming rate our sympathies go out to the invalid and old-age pensioners. Members on this side of the chamber have made frequent appeals to the Government for an increase of the rates of pension paid to invalid and old-age pensioners and war pensioners, but they have all been met with a very cold reception.

Nearly two years ago the then PostmasterGeneral sanctioned the erection of a new post office at Earl wood, in my electorate. During his term of office as Postmaster-General the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) found that he could not go on with the work. The present Postmaster-General (Mr. Harrison) now says that the work cannot be carried on on account of the enormous expenditure on war activities. I trust that the honorable. gentleman will reconsider his decision with regard to that post office. His officers agree that the work should be put in hand because a. new post office is necessary for the more efficient distribution of mail matter throughout that locality.

The most pressing matter to which I wish to refer to-night is the urgent necessity for the commencing of works in Sydney for the absorption of the unemployed. As the festive season is rapidly approaching I trust that the Minister will do everything in his power to see that a sufficient sum of money is appropriated to provide some Christmas cheer for the unemployed.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– I take this opportunity on the Estimates to make some observations regarding the Australian Broadcasting Commission. I am in substantial agreement with the criticism of the commission directed by the honorable member for Watson (Mr. Jennings). As honorable members know, this commission was set up under an act passed through this Parliament in 1932. After a great deal of criticism in the Parliament the original bill was withdrawn and redrafted. It is on the measure as finally agreed to that the commission has since operated, though, naturally, with a good deal of difficulty. The PostmasterGeneral (Mr. Harrison) told us recently that the commission has improved its broadcasting in recent years; but that is the history of radio in every part of the world. In Australia over 1,000,000 broadcast listener’s licences have been issued. The commission, therefore, has an immense income even after deducting payments for services to the General Post Office. According to the Melbourne Sun of the 24th November last, its operations resulted in a surplus of £106,493 last year. That profit has been added to the reserve fund which now totals £249,700. After stating that the programmes of the Australian Broadcasting Commission have been greatly improved and that Australians have listened with both pleasure and cultural gain to world artists engaged by the commission - with which we all agree - the Sun states -

But our broadcast commissioners have a still bigger duty.Their aim should be to give the public the best possible programmes at the lowest cost.

I point out that a listener’s licence can be obtained in England for 10s. The large profits of the Australian Broadcasting Commission, which is practically a monopoly, are not paid into general Government revenue. I think it is high time that it was.

Mr Harrison:

– The commission does not get the whole of the licence-fee.

Mr WHITE:

– Nevertheless the commission has huge assets that have been built up since1932, and its revenue might well be managed in the same way as is that of the Postal Department. If broadcasting finance were placed under government control, we could see by closer scrutiny than is now possible whether the licence-fee could be justifiably reduced.

Recently, I was informed that a wholesale free distribution of concert tickets had taken place simply to fill the halls when certain artists visited Australia. I asked in the House whether the commission had distributed large numbers of free tickets for celebrity concertsduring 1987-38, and the answer supplied to me was “No”. I also asked on what, basis the tickets had -been distributed, and was informed -

Free tickets were provided to representatives of the press, advertisers in concert, programmes., persons displaying concert posters, and, on occasions, to members of the staff and nurses in public and charitable institutions.

That sounds reasonable. I further wished to know the total value, at boxoffice prices, of the free tickets distributed for the season 1937-38, and the board replied - lt is not possible to furnish this information, as complimentary tickets are issued to various sections of the hall.

That seems a very weak answer. It is a matter of general knowledge that there has been a large distribution of these tickets. On three occasions in Brisbane the hall could not be filled. I claim that as the funds of the commission are supplied by listeners, it is not entitled to disburse them prodigally. That criticism has been voiced freely by the press. The Melbourne Agc, of the Srd August last, stated -

The public is not informed of the fees paid by tlie commission to visiting celebrities, nor of the financial results of concert seasons in which they are central figures. Tlie state of public patronage suggests at times a system of concealed subsidization of musicians and singers engaged by the commission. . . . Are they to be entrusted to a group of officials and administrators of the broadcasting commission, the tenure of the present members of which expired some weeks ago, and was temporarily renewed for six months pending a comprehensive review and overhaul! Present trends emphasize the need of action by Cabinet and Parliament to curb some of tlie more autocratic excursions of the commission, and to establish effective control of ite policies and aims in important and farreaching directions.

The Government cannot lightly ignore such criticism. To clear up this matter, about which there is a doubt, the PostmasterGeneral should make a statement during the recess, showing the box-office receipts at the celebrity concerts. Admittedly, these entertainments result in some cultural gain, and artists of renown are brought to Australia, but the people wish to know whether heavy financial losses have been incurred.

The commission has embarked upon the publication of a weekly journal, which is quite unnecessary. Sufficient publications of this kind are already produced by private enterprise. The A.B.O. Weekly is an unwanted journal, and, from its appearance, is “ weakly “ from the start. The second issue, da ted the 9th December, contains an article under the heading, “ Danger Spots in India and in the course of the article, the following paragraph appears: -

India has a deep national pride; it also lias a humility that is almost disgusting. Indians salaam their skinny frames off the footpath at the sight of a white man; others fight the white man’s mie with fanatical heroism.

Is the writer of that article confusing conditions in India with what he has. read in Uncle Tom’s Cabin? This is not the sort of matter which should appear in a journal published under the aegis of the Government concerning a dominion of the British Empire. Perhaps I have been in the wrong parts of India to observe the conditions referred to about salaaming themselves off the footpath. The commission’s journal is not an attractive publication. It will use up more of the commission’s funds, and may present an excuse for not reducing the licence-fee. I ask honorable members to search the balancesheets of the commission, and find out its gains and losses. There is no financial record of. its concert enterprises, and the public is left in the- dark as to the financial results.

The commission should give Australian artists a fairer deal than they have had rn the past. I referred some time ago to a complaint by John Brownlee, who said that the terms offered to him were not worth considering. I also spoke of Peter Dawson, who said that the commission had a foreign-artists complex. Of course, the commission came to terms subsequently with John Brownlee, who is an artist of world renown. Peter Dawson has been longer on the stage, but is nevertheless a world figure. When these two famous Australians, on coming to their homeland, receive so little encouragement and have to battle for terms, it shows that there is something wrong with the management of the national broadcasting system.

How much Australian music is put over the air? The Minister stated that a certain percentage of the fees paid by the commission - it sounds a formidable proportion - goes to Australian artists, but, no doubt, he included the cost of orchestras and the general employees of the commission. Concert performers, such as Marjorie Lawrence and other worldfamous artists, have experienced all kinds of difficulties. There are many artiste who might reasonably be engaged by the commission, which should also encourage the production of Australian music. At a recent conference of musical composers in Melbourne, it was found that there were over seventy composers in Victoria. Among them are some famous writers, yet this wealthy monopoly, which receives -fees from over a million listeners, rarely enlists the services of those writers.

Mr Harrison:

– How can the honorable member say that the commission has a monopoly, since there are 100 B class stations ?

Mr WHITE:

– It has become almost a monopoly in the concert line, because the Minister knows that the commission is Crushing the private entrepreneur. When Marjorie Lawrence went to Newcastle the commission put on the Comedy Harmonists, so that her concert had to be cancelled. I could quote letters from prominent ‘musicians and others who declare that they have had no opportunity to broadcast in their own Country. 1 cannot now refer to the secondreading speech, by the Minister on the. bill relating to the Broadcasting Commission, but the intention of this new legislation is to put a patch or two on the old statute. I suggest, instead that the time is now5 opportune for an inquiry into the operations of the commission, which is working under an act passed as far back as 1932. when wireless broadcasting was more or less in its embryonic stages. In many respects, I admit, the programmes broadcast by the commission have been admirable, and have given listeners something which they have not heard before; but there are many imperfections, and a. great deal more could be done. The Minister should confer with the commission and with Cabinet about this matter, and institute an inquiry into the present methods of the commission… with a view to effecting improvements. I do not suggest that there are scandals to be cleared up, nOr do I attack any individuals; I merely say that Australia is entitled to the best than can be obtained. The B class stations are competitive in a sense; but, if an inquiry were held, representatives of the people and of these stations could give advice regarding “ways of improving the service rendered by the national stations. I suggest that the Postmaster-General form a select committee of members of Parliament, representatives of the commission and outside experts, or, if necessary, a royal commission, to take evidence in a helpful way from private entrepreneurs, members of the theatrical profession and amateur repertory societies, music teachers, lecturers and others interested in broadcasting. An inquiry of that sort would reveal facts which would influence him to withdraw the bill at present before Parliament. He could do away with the present patchwork system and institute a system of a standard equal to that of Great Britain, where television is already in operation. Unless he takes action along those lines he will continue to receive complaints from the holders of licences and continue to create dissatisfaction.

Mr MAKIN:
Hindmarsh

– Since the Australian Broadcasting Commission has come under discussion, the time is opportune to make criticisms of certain phases of its work. Apparently it is not giving the satisfaction that honorable members would wish. I bring to the notice of the Postmaster-General (Mr. Harrison) the unfair treatment meted out by the commission to sixteen members of a radio chorus in Adelaide. The remuneration provided for them is not commensurate with the services they render, and compares unfavorably with the fees paid to choruses in Melbourne and Sydney. The Adelaide chorus is recognized, by musical authorities, including distinguished artists who have visited Australia at the’ invitation of the commission, as one of outstanding merit. For some reason the encouragement that should bc given to local talent of this sort is lacking. In order that the grievances of the chorus will not be overlooked., I shall trace its history. It began rehearsals for the commission in March, 1937, at a retaining fee of £2 2s. a quarter each. For each rehearsal or performance there was a payment of 5s. each, and the duration of the rehearsals was at the discretion of the conductor. Approximately twelve months after its formation a deputation of its members waited upon the State manager of the commission. Colonel Thomas, with the following request : “ That Adelaide chorus members should be made permanent or, in lieu, that they be placed on the pro rata basis with Melbourne and Sydney choruses”. The request was refused,, but the commission relented to the degree of paying 10s. for Sunday performances. Some time later the chorus approached the Musicians Union, which in turn approached the commission, and in December, 1938, an agreement was made which, however, affected only Melbourne and Sydney choruses. As the result of further efforts by the Musicians- Union an agreement was concluded on the 14th June, 1939, in the following terms: -

  1. Salary. - Females, £5per week; males, £5 per week.
  2. Hours. - Twenty -one (21) per week, to be worked on any six (6) days, with a maximum of not more than four (4) hours on any one day without payment of overtime. The hours may be worked in a maximum of two (2) periods if required, either evenly divided or otherwise, though shoulda chorister be railed on to work less than half an hour at any one time such time will count as half an hour. All working periods, either included in the week’s work or overtime, may be used either for rehearsal or performance, or both, though it willbe necessary to allow a tenminute break betweena rehearsal and a performance. Should a rehearsal or performance exceed two (2) hours, a ten-minute rest interval must he provided when two ‘ (2) hours have been worked, and such interval shall be regarded as time worked. Sundays. - If a chorister is required to work on a Sunday, and if such Sunday work is included in the normal working week of twenty-one (21) hours, he will be paid an extra fourteen shillings and threepence (14s. 3d.). If such Sunday work is in addition to the normal working week of twenty-one (21). hours, he will be paid the sum of one pound eight shillings and sixpence (£1 8s.6d.) for a minimum of three (3) consecutive hours. Public Holidays. - If a chorister is required to work on a public holiday, and if such work is included in the normal working week of twenty -one (21) hours, he will be paid an extra seven shillings and threepence (7s. 3d.). If such public holiday work is in addition to the normal working week of twenty-one (21 ) hours,he willbe paid the sum of one pound one shilling and threepence (£11s. 3d.) for a minimum of three (3) consecutive hours.
  3. Overtime. - Week days - One shilling and threepence (1s. 3d.) per quarter hour period or part thereof. Public Holidays - Time and a half, i.e., one shilling and tenpence halfpenny (1s.10½d.) per quarter hour period or part thereof. Sundays - Two shillings and sixpence (2s.6d.) per quarter hour period or part, thereof.
  4. Casuals. - Week Days - A minimum payment as for two (2) hours at the rate of six shillings (6s.) per hour. Public Holidays - A minimum payment as for two (2) hours at the rate of nine shillings (Us.) per hour. Sundays - a minimum payment as for two (2) hours at the rate of twelve shillings (12s.) per hour.
  5. Time of Starting. - The time of starting areheasal or performance shall be deemed to be the time for which the chorister is called;
  6. Annual Leave. - A chorister engaged on regular full-time employment for twelve (12) months will be entitled to fourteen (14) days’ leave on full ordinary pay, providing the commission is satisfied he has given of his best during the past twelve (12) months.

Those rates were not made retrospective and since they came into operation the working hours of the radio chorus in Adelaide have been curtailed so that the earnings of a performer over several weeks amounted to only . 1 2s., in payment for one rehearsal. It is quite unreasonable to expect the chorus to continue in existence on that scale of remuneration. Its members are” publicspirited people whose talent is acknowledgedby musical authorities to be among the best available in Australian capital cities. The president and the acting secretary of the Musicians Union waited upon the local manager to ask that extra performances be allotted to the chorus, but he stated that he was governed by the amount of money allocated. That statement was denied by the commission’s authorities in Sydney, who said, that the question of cost did not affect the matter. Even if the chorus cannot be employed upon a permanent basis at the same rates and conditions applying in Melbourne and Sydney, at least a pro rata basis should be established.

I understand that openings for employment with the Australian Broadcasting Commission are rarely advertised. That is not fair. Every person who possesses the ability and talent required should be given consideration in the making of appointments. Under the present system, members of the public are not made aware of the existence of vacancies, and that lends itself to favoritism. Applicants might secure appointment, not by virtue of their own merit, but by virtue of some personal preference exercisedby executive officers of the commission.

Mr Harrison:

– Positions are not advertised when specialists are required. Staff vacancies are always advertised.

Mr MAKIN:

– The commission’s requirements of artists-

Mr Harrison:

– Vacancies for artists could not be filled by advertisement. Artists, must present themselves for auditions.

Mr MAKIN:

– The general public is not even made aware of the holding of auditions, and many young people with considerable ability are, therefore, not given an opportunity to submit themselves for a hearing. The commission should make public announcements of its intention to conduct auditions.

Another matter which I wish to emphasize affects old-age and invalid pensioners. By reason of the present economic circumstances involving a higher cost of living and higher house rentals, pensioners are suffering disabilities which do not affect others in the community, who at least have some opportunity to advance their wage standards. Pensioners are unable to equate their incomes and the rising costs of living. I ask the Government to liberalize i’ts pensions’ legislation in order to provide more adequate incomes for these people, many of whom were pioneers of this country. The Government should increase the opportunities of pensioners to supplement their income and thus enable them to meet the increased charges imposed upon them in connexion with the. higher cost of living and in many other ways. I have been informed that many pensioner? have to pay three.fourths of their pension to pay their rent, leaving them very little for food and other necessaries of life. Many of them ure unable to live with relatives, and as many of them cannot possibly possess even a. small dwelling of their own, they hil vo insufficient to provide comfortable -belter. The Government should deal more liberally with many of these aged folk who find it. exceedingly difficult to pay their way on the small pension they receive. If the Government will not respond to the urgent request I am making on their behalf it should at least make them a special grant to enable them to participate in the Christmas festivities in common with other sections of ibn community. .Similar assistance should also he rendered to the. unemployed, as has been done on previous occasions, because many of them who have families find it distressing when they ure unable to provide their wives and their children with the little extras which others are privileged to enjoy at this time of the year. Owing to the abnormal circumstances which prevail in consequence of the war, causing higher prices and increased rents, this very deserving section of the community is. entitled to some consideration.

Mr FROST:
Franklin

.- I regret, that the Minister for Commerce or the Assistant Minister for Commerce are not members of this chamber, because I wish to bring under their notice the serious position in which the growers of apples and pears are placed.

Mr Harrison:

– I shall bring the honorable member’s observation under the notice of the Minister concerned.

Mr FROST:

– I direct the attention of the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce to the serious position in which the fruitgrowers are placed. In consequence of the war, growers of perishable commodities find it exceedingly difficult to retain their ordinary markets owing to the shortage of shipping space and other factors. Normally Australia exports annually between 4,000,000 and 5,000,000 bushels of apples and pears, but this season a large proportion of that quantity will have to be. marketed in Australia. [Quorum formed.’] At the outbreak of the war in September last, chaotic conditions prevailed in many of our primary industries; but. while the Government has entered into an agree ment with the British Government which is to purchase large quantities of Australian wool, meat and other products, fruit, unfortunately, comes eighth on the shipping list, and the fruitgrowers feel that they will have great difficulty in disposing of their crop at a payable price. The Federal Control Board appointed last year requested the Government to purchase apples at 3s. a case and pears at 4s. a case, in the orchard, but after extended negotiations with the Minister for Commerce the board was forced to accept 2s. a case for apple? and 3s. a easefor pears, a price insufficient to cover the cost of production. The hoard, with a pistol aimed at it in this way, had no option but, to accept the offer. If is true, that the Minister, who considered sympathetically the representations made on behalf of the growers, said that in view of the unusual circumstances he . doubted whether a higher price could be given, at least for a time. Several deputations which waited on the Minister asked that the price of apples be increased to 2s. 6d. a case, but even that figure is insufficient to cover the cost of production and can be regarded as sufficient to cover only the cost of harvesting. Those whose properties are mortgaged will be unable to meet their commitments. Each grower who receives an advance of 2s. a case on his apples has to meet the cost of harvesting and storage, and if the board instructs him to market his fruit he is compelled to do so. After the crop is harvested the fruit has to be stored in sheds, and timber, wrapping paper, nails and other commodities have to be purchased which in the aggregate cost a considerable sum. The growers are unable to provide the necessary finance to meet this cost, particularly as they have not had many good seasons. - They had to face considerable difficulties during the depression, when the demand for fruit was not great and prices slumped. Last year the conditions were somewhat better, but in some of the States, .particularly in Victoria, there was a light crop and, owing to drought conditions and bush fires, growers had a good deal to contend with. This year I understand that Victoria has a very heavy crop of apples which the growers will have to dispose of at 2s. a case. It is useless to refuse the price offered, because they have no other outlet for their product, and during the period of the war they will have to take whatever price is offering. Even if the Government paid growers -2s. 6d. a case, the amount would cover only the cost of gathering the fruit, and the Government would not lose very much because the crop throughout Australia is fairly light. Should the Government be able to export between 2,000,000 and 2,500,000 bushels to say, Singapore, India and Colombo, where markets have already been established, it will not incur a loss. Au additional 6d. a case would mean a great deal to the growers and’I trust that the Government will be able to increase the advance by that amount. The honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen), who has introduced several deputations to the Minister for Commerce, suggested that pears should be excluded from the pool, because, he contends, there is a good market for the crop in Victoria. He also said that one purchaser of pears was prepared to buy the surplus crop in Western Australia, but he did not say that the surplus in Tasmania, where a large quantity of pears are produced, would be purchased. The honorable member, who admitted that the crop of pears in Victoria this season is light, also said that three-fifths of the pears grown in the Commonwealth are produced in Victoria, and that the total production of pears in Australia is approximately 5,500,000 cases. He also said that Victoria and New South Wales combined produce four-fifths of the total quantity of pears produced in Australia. According to the Commonwealth Year Bool-, the production of pears in’ Victoria has been as follows: -

The honorable member made a great mistake when he told the Minister for Commerce at a deputation last week what was the Victorian pear crop. What lie did was to double the actual figures. I trust that, the Minister’s consideration of those facts will lead him to the conclusion that pears should not be excluded. If there is any shortage in Australia, all producing States will be on the same footing. We shall then be able to market the Tasmanian pears at a price at least as high as that which has been received for Victorian pears - I should say higher, because the Tasmanian pears, which arc mainly of the Winter Cold variety, on the Sydney market, fetch from ls. to 2s. a case more than any other variety.

I shall not dwell on the apple question, but I trust that the Government will make an advance of 2s. 6d. a case at the end of February, and not, as intended, an advance of 50 per cent, at the end of February and a further payment of 50 per cent, in April. Two shillings a case on only 75 per cent, of the crop amounts to only ls. 6d. a case, but an advance of 2s. 6d., a case on 75 per cent, of the crop would give an all-over price of 2s. a case. . The other 25 per cent, of the crop could be disposed of to manufacturers of fruit juice if the Commonwealth Government were willing to pay a small subsidy to those manufacturers.

In Germany last year 90,000,000 gallons of pure-fruit juice were manufactured, and I understand that, instead of other beverages, the German soldiers are supplied with purefruit juice. The manufacture of synthetic fruit juices in Germany is prohibited. The pure-fruit juice industry of . California produces 120,000,000 gallons a year. In Australia, efforts arc being made to accomplish something similar. I shall read a letter which should bc of interest to the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) -

If thu opposition to wet canteens is too great, perhaps a compromise could be made by permitting 11. low alcohol still cider to be sold. I am assured by cider-makers that they could provide cider of any alcoholic strength, by blending with mi fermented apple juice, at about 4a. per gallon in si to 10 gallon kegs, the latter of course returnable.

The cider alternatives are: Normal commercial cider, about 8 ])cr cent, alcohol; low alcohol cider, say, 4 or u per cent, alcohol; non-alcoholic cider, under 2 per cent, alcohol;, straight apple juice, no alcohol.

To enable cider to be sold in 8 to 10 oz. glasses at a price of about 5d., it would be necessary to supply in kegs, not bottles. Low alcohol and non-alcoholic cider and apple juice would have to be supplied in small containers so that they could be finished before fermentation sets in. Fermentation could also bo stopped if the cider or juice is forced from the keg by a CO. plant as used for beer, thus keeping air out of the keg.

I trust that the Government will do everything possible to keep the apple and pear industry in operation. That industry is not like the wheat industry because, whereas the wheat farmers can let their land lie fallow for a season and not worry about a crop, the fruitgrowers must give constant; attention to their orchards and grow fruit, whether they like it or not. If the “operations of pruning and spraying are neglected for one season the orchards are ruined. It takes from ten to fifteen years for an orchard to come into full bearing.

I have two letters about the effect of the Commonwealth barley pool on the Tasmanian brewing industry. The first letter reads -

I enclose herewith copy of a letter received by me from the general manager of the Tasmanian Breweries Proprietary Limited, willi reference to the Commonwealth barley pool, which it is proposed should handle the whole of the barley grown in Australia.

From this letter, you will see that the Tasmanian Breweries Proprietary Limited are apprehensive that they may have to take certain barley which would be unsuitable for the manufacture of Cascade Alc, which stands in a class on its own, and which they have been endeavouring for many years to bring to perfection, and have now succeeded.

This company has no objection to the Commonwealth pool, but they consider that they should be allowed to select the type of barley necessary for the manufacture of their special products, and no restrictions should be imposed upon what barley they should use.

They have a contract with the Tasmanian barley pool for the coming year for their supplies, and they do not wish any interference with that arrangement.

I would be glad of your assistance in bringing before the Minister for Commerce the importance of not doing anything which might have a detrimental effect on one of our primary industries in Tasmania.

The second reads -

I confirm my verbal communication with you re proposed Federal Barley Board.

As you already know, the brewing formula for Cascade products are made up of carefullyselected types of Tasmanian and South Australian barleys, together with specially-chosen hops grown in selected areas in Tasmania. The barleys are specially malted in our malt house.

If we are forced to use barleys unsuitable for malting, it may have a very detrimental effect on the character of our products.

We would esteem it a favour if you would assist us by bringing this matter before your parliamentary colleagues with the idea of preserving for the brewery the right to carry out their arrangements with the Tasmanian barley pool for the coming year.

What I have just read is a copy of a letter sent by the brewery to the Minister for Commerce. There is little need for me to elaborate on what is contained in those letters. That brewery has been getting its barley from certain sources for many years and it wishes to continue to do so, without disturbing the pooling arrangement.

A few months ago, at a returned . soldiers’ dinner which I attended in Tasmania, talk arose about whether troops” should be sent from Australia to the war.’ I stood up for the Prime Minister (Mr.

Menzies) and the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street), both of whom had said that they favoured voluntary enlistment for defence purposes and that they were opposed to sending troops overseas.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

– They have let the honorable’ member down.

Mr FROST:

– Yes, because the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) threatened to attack the Government on the question of universal training. The Government’s attitude was, “We shall get in ahead of you.” I. have been supplied with the following information concerning the military position in Tasmania : -

For sonic months prior to the outbreak of war a Saturday morning Military Social School was set up at the Anglesea Barracks, Hobart. This was inaugurated by two senior staff officers. Various invitations were sent out to military officers to attend; it may be noted that this only applied to their own clique. This school carried on and it was apparent that from this school all appointments were being made - in fact certain senior officers were placed on the reserve to make way for further promotions. On the outbreak of war the influence of this clique became more apparent, and when the Australian Imperial Force garrison battalion was formed three officers, all Victorians who did not serve with any Tasmanian unit, were appointed to the executive positions, namely CommandingOfficer Lieutenant-Colonel Scanon, second in command Captain W. Taylor, and AdjutantLieutenant W. D. McMinn. This in itself did not reflect with any credit on Tasmanian exofficers who served during the last war and were again available for service. Considerable difficulty has been encountered to obtain the required number of recruits for the garrisonbattalion and the fault ofthis may be attributed to this fact. Opposition has been voiced from returned soldier organizations to these appointments, but they have been ignored in every way.

Take again the appointment of an officer to command the Tasmanian Infantry Unit in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force; a colonel was required and there, were a number of applicants -

) Lieutenant-Colonel F. W. Hartley. Born Tasmania the 13th June, 1897. Served with the Australian Imperial Force from the 10th June. 1915 until October, 1919. Appointed Lieutenant 40th Battalion 1923, Captain 1927, Major 1934. appointed to command 40th Battalion 1937, and Lieutenant-Colonel 27th May, 1938. Volunteered 2nd Australian Imperial Force and passed medically fit. (2)Lieutenant-ColonelG. A. Youl. M.C., Born Tasmania the6th February. 1892. Commanded Royal Field Artillery Battery in France. On reserve of officers until1936. Appointed to command 12th Battalion 1937 and Lieutenant-Colonel the 27th September, 1938. Volunteered and passed medically fit.

Now take the particulars of the officer appointed and the reason for so doing.

Field, J. Major: Born Victoria the 10th April, 1899. Transferred to Tasmania and appointed to 40th Battalion the 21st September, 1927. Promoted Major the 30th Novmber, 1936. Was attached to Base Head-quarters for two years, 1934-36. Relinquished this appointment to return to unit for promotion to Major. Was appointed second-in-command 40th Battalion, January. 1939, and was again taken to Head-quarters for staff duties. Little regimental experience. Never commanded or administered a Base command. It will be noted he is only one year and ten months younger than Bartley, but had no war service.

According to ages specified for enlistment in the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, he was too old to enlist as a major, so apparently he had sufficient influence to secure his nomination over other senior officers for the nomination to command the 2/12th Battalion 2nd Australian Imperial Force, and 1 also believe the second in command of this unit is to come from Queensland.

Now take the case of Lieutenant-Colonel R. A. Milledge transferred from Victoria 1930 as Major, the whole of his previous service being with artillery units, but in December, 1937, he was taken on strength of 12th Field Company Engineers and appointed to command as Lieutenant-Colonel, another Victorian.

Take the appointment in the “ Mercury “ of 9th November in which Lieutenant-Colonel F. L. Henley is appointed as Deputy Assistant Quartermaster General. In the army list of 1939 he is shown as Commanding Officer 4th Australian Service Corps (Militia) but he wanders to Tasmania and is appointed to the staff. He is a Victorian and apparently brought over, although a militia officer, to fill this position.

Next take the case of Captain H. M. Bamford. He came to Tasmania, from Victoria, and on 31st October, 1938, he was appointed to command 12th Mixed Brigade, Corps of Signals.

Lieutenant-Colonel E. M. Johnson, Army Legal Department, Tasmanian, has recently been placed on the Reserve’ to make way for another Victorian, W. Irvine, who has since taken his place.

Another case in point is Captain W. Mason. Australian Army Service Corps. This officer was not a member of the Social School but a Tasmanian, so he had to make way for Major Farmer, who returned to Tasmania from Victoria. Lieutenant-Colonel D. Lane had to give way for Captain N. Sinunonds.

Anyone attending this school was sure of appointments or promotion. Take the case of . Lieutenant C. R. P. Hawker - in August. 1938, he was appointed Lieutenant 40th Battalion and on the. same date appointed Staff Officer6th District Base.

Lieutenant-Colonel A. N. Lewis appointed Chairman Man Power Committee. LieutenantColonel Thirkell appointed in charge of Civil Defence Legion and numerous other appointments. There are seven or eight LieutenantColonels who held such rank under war conditions, and wore available for service with the garrison battalion, but they would not suit the style of the military dictator in Hobart, who is Lieutenant-Colonel W. R. Steele. The position of military officers in Tasmania is such that they are the talk of almost everyone. Take the recently constructed permanent camp at Brighton, Tasmania. This camp was in 1.014 used for the First Australian Infantry /Force, but after a few months condemned and moved to Claremont, but staff officers without consulting officers who were conversant with the conditions that led to the camp being moved have gone ahead spending thousands. Iii fact it is stated that’ troops that were in cam]) at Brighton in 1914 were of the opinion that it was one of the worst camps they encountered during the four years of war.

Take the appointment of Lieutenant-Colonel Strutt. Although a Tasmanian he was a member of this school, and it is known that outside influence was used in his appointment to command an artillery regiment in the Second Australian Infantry Force. From the foregoing it is quite apparent that Tasmanians need not apply for any appointments, and I think that a Board of Inquiry should be set up immediately to investigate the whole position.

Mr Street:

– Arc those the honorable gentleman’s own opinions? There are some rather serious accusations in what he has just read.

Mr FROST:

– They are not my opinions. This information was given to mc by a returned soldier, who, I understand, applied for one of these appointments.

Mr Street:

– I do not know whether the honorable gentleman will vouch for them.

Mr FROST:

– I have the highest opinion of the man who gave me this information, and I readily accept his word when he said that he could vouch for this statement. I promised him that I should ask that a. thorough inquiry be made into the matter. T trust that the Minister for the Army will see that such an investigation is made. The statement I have just read reveals one of the main reasons for the failure of the voluntary system in Tasmania. That State played a very important part in the last war. In proportion to the number of its soldiers Tasmania secured more Victoria Crosses than any other contingent in the allied forces. I know that the Minister will agree with me when I say that they were good men in the field. Many of these men have again offered their services, but they have been turned down. 1 again appeal to the Minister to make a thorough investigation into the representations which I have just made.

I endorse every word uttered by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) in respect of the payment of our soldiers. He dealt with this matter very fairly. “When the original recruiting campaign was undertaken to build up the Militia to a strength of 70,000 I did all in my power to assist in that effort. In one portion of my electorate, at The Channel, 87 per cent, of the eligible men in the district enlisted. They did so on the understanding that they were to be paid at the rate of Ss’. a day. I am pleased that the Government has restored that rate. Any attempt to re-introduce lower rates after the three months’ camps are concluded, would be deplorable. Even on 8s. a day most of the men are sacrificing, from 4s. to 5s. a day. The. majority of them are men of the working class. I trust that the Government will not place them in reserve, and that at no time in the future will it fix the private’s pay at a rate lower than 8s. a day.

Mr POLLARD:
Ballarat

– I regret that Parliamentary government has deteriorated to such a degree that honorable members are obliged to voice the complaints and desires of the people whom we represent at such an early hour in the morning when Ministers, honorable members, and members of the Parliamentary staffs are completely exhausted. Under such conditions our representations on behalf of our constituents are more or less ignored. However, in the circumstances I am obliged to accept this opportunity to deal with a few matters which are agitating the minds of the people whom I represent. I propose to, deal, first, with the subject of repatriation. I am diffident about making a complaint against any person under cover of parliamentary privilege. However, I feel perfectly justified in protesting against the conduct, in his official capacity, of Mr. Howard, the chairman of the Assessment Tribunal in Victoria.

I ask the Minister for Repatriation (Mr. Harrison) to investigate the complaint which I shall now detail, and should it be proved to be well-founded to remove Mr. Howard from his position, or at leastseverely reprimand him. Mr. Howard’s duty is to hear from time to time appeals for pensions by returned soldiers. Frequent complaints have been voiced about the way in which this person conducts his cross-examinations. He is always hostile to the ex-soldiers; he never puts the men at their ease; and he does everything possible to provoke them. The men do not obtain from him the fair deal to which they are entitled. The irony of the situation is that this person was the nominee of the Returned Sailors’ and Soldiers’ Imperial League of Australia. As that body does not seem to see fit to seek his removal from the position which he occupies, I ask the Government to exercise its statutory power to remove him. I have not made these complaints without a good deal of hesitancy, but I am quite satisfied that they are amply justified, as the Minister himself will discover if he investigates them.

I now wish to refer to a matter affecting the Army. Certain members of the garrison forces in Victoria, most of whom are returned soldiers, have allotted the major part of their pay to their wives and families, and are retaining for themselves only1s. 6d. or 2s. a day. Notwithstanding the requests that I have made from time to time to the Minister for the granting of free tra velling warrants to these men to travel to and from their homes when on leave, nothing has been done. The men get, 48 hours’ leave a month and seven days’ leave in each three months, and as they arc retaining only a small portion of their pay they find themselves without sufficient money for their fares when their leave is granted. Some of the men live in distant parts of the various States, and it is only fair that they should be granted free travelling facilities. Another complaint relates to the uniforms that have been issued, some of which had been compressed in bales for eighteen years. It is practically impossible for the men to iron the creases out of these uniforms, the result being that they are obliged to appear in public in uniforms which are, not what they should be. I hope that the Minister for the Army will give immediate attention to this matter.

Mr Street:

– The point about the uniforms is that we did. not desire to issue militia tunics to the men, and the only Australian Imperial Force tunics available were old ones. They will, of course, be replaced.

Mr POLLARD:

– I now wish to direct attention to certain highly objectionable features associated with the sale of Australia’s surplus meat to the Government of the United Kingdom. The whole matter has been so badly mishandled that the dismissal from office of the Minister or Ministers concerned is warranted. It is well known, and, in fact, is frankly admitted by the Government, that the prices at which Australian meat was sold were known to a very large number of interested people before they were revealed to the public. This fact has also been declared in newspaper articles. The practice, when new tariff schedules are about to be presented to Parliament, is to confine all information about proposed increases or decreases strictly to the responsible Minister and his colleagues, and to senior officers of the Customs Department. I regret to say, however, that in connexion with the sale of our meat to Great Britain, not only the Minister for Commerce, and his Assistant, and certain officials of the Commerce Department knew the details in respect of prices, but so also did a very large number of other people. The negotiations - were apparently conducted by the Australian Meat Board. Here is a list of the members of that body: -

Stock- Producers’ representatives -

New South Wales - The Honorable H. S. Henley, M.L.C

Southern Riverina - J. H. Patterson

Victoria - A. C. W. Fisken, M.C., chairman.

Queensland - E. S. N. Bourke

South Australia - W. J. Dawkins

Western Australia - R. B. Williamson

Northern Territory - J. F. Holloway, who was replaced by Mr. Brodie, the president of the Northern Territory Pastoral Lessees Association, and principal of the firm of F. A. Brodie Proprietary Limited, who has big interests in the Northern Territory and in north-west Queensland.

Tasmania- F. H. Foster, M.H.A., who has been replaced by Mr. Adams.

Australian Pig Producers’ representative - R. G.Watson.

Meat Exporting Companies’ representatives -

New youth Wales - Lieutenant-Colonel the Honorable T. A. J. Playfair, D.S.O., O.B.E., V.D., M.L.C.

Victoria - J. S. Balderstone

Queensland - E. J. Bowater, who is associted with Angliss & Company Proprietary Limited, which is directly or indirectly associated with Vestey’s Limited.

Co-operative Mutton and Lamib Organizations’ representative - R. G. Heley.

Publicly-owned Abattoirs’ and Freezing Works’ representative -

Metropolitan Meat Industry Commissioner in. the State of New South Wales - T. Morrett.

Chairman of the Queensland Meat Industry Board - E. F. K. Sunners.

General Manager, Government Produce Department, South Australia - G. A. W. Pope

General Manager, Western Australian Government Mcatworks, Wyndham - J. J. Farrell

Commonwealth Government representative - Sir Frederick Tout, Kt., M.L.C.

Secretary - V. C. Lohan, L.C.A

Executive Officer in London - R. H. Heywood, B.V.Sc.

Head Office address - Trustees Chambers, 401-403 Collins-street, Melbourne. C.I.

London address - 1 Charterhouse Chambers. Charterhouse-square, London, E.C.l.

In addition to those gentlemen, various State advisory boards Were connected with the negotiations, and it seems beyond question that the persons I have mentioned and also the members of these State bodies had prior knowledge of the prices fixed for Australian meat. It is incredible to me that responsible Ministers should have allowed information of this. kind to get into such general circulation. The result has been that the producers’ representatives on the Meat Board were in the enviable position of being able to make very profitable stock deals. They knew the prices that would be received for the meat, and they were able to buy fat lambs in their neighbours’ paddocks knowing full well that they could not possibly lose money on re-sale. The representatives of the great meat exporting companies were also in the happy position of being able to go into the market and buy hundreds of thousands of lambs, in fact as many as they could accommodate in their stores, at prices which they knew must yield them a handsome profit without incurring any risk of loss. The members of the State advisory committees were likewise in that favorable position. In fact a very great number of people, covering a wide range of interests, were able to participate in transactions involving the purchase and sale of meat without any risk whatever of loss. I have no hesitation in saying that those who had the opportunity to engage in this lucrative business did so with alacrity. The position is so serious that, in my opinion, it calls for an immediate investigation by a Royal Commission or a Select Committee of this House. I shall go so far’ as to say that the Ministers responsible for the mishandling of the business should be called upon to resign. The whole scandalous procedure warrants the closest examination. Some time ago I asked the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce a question concerning the date on which the prices of Australian meat were fixed under this agreement. After a great deal of evasion and sidestepping, and the repetition of the question, I received a letter signed by the Minister for Customs (Senator McLeay) and dated the 16th November, which read as follows: -

With reference to the question asked by you in the House of Representatives yesterday regarding the arrangements made with the United Kingdom’ Government for the sale of Australian meat, I desire to advise that the negotiations as to price commenced immediately on the outbreak of war and arc not yet completed.

From time to time during the negotiations agreement has been reached on prices of certain classes of meat, subject to final agreement on all points, having regard to the general price relationships for all classes of Australian meat, and to the negotiations being conducted by the United Kingdom Government with other countries.

That second paragraph follows the statement in the first paragraph that prices “ are not yet completed “. The letter proceeds: -

Advice of final agreement in regard to prices was received in Australia on Sunday, ‘29th October, and the particulars were announced in the press on Monday morning, 30th October.

It will be observed that the letter states in one paragraph that the negotiations as to price had not . been completed, and later states that the final agreement in regard to prices was received in Australia on Sunday, the 29th October. As a matter of fact the final agreement, in regard to beef, lamb and mutton was reached early in October and the prices had become known about that time, to the large range of interests to which 1 have already referred. It appears to mc that this was due to the fact that the negotiations were conducted, not by the Minister and his departmental officers, but by the Australian’ Meat Board. On the 7th October the Melbourne Age published a report to the effect that Mr. Fisken, the Chairman of the Australian Meat Board, had .said : -

Questions relating to the contract to he arranged with the British Government for the purchase of Australian meat were also discussed at the Board meeting on Tuesday and a number of recommendations made for consideration by the Commonwealth Government.

This shows clearly that the whole business relating to the contract and to the prices to be charged was left in the hands of the Australian Meat Board, which meant that very many people had knowledge of what was being done. On the 24th October I asked Senator McBride personally whether the prices for lamb, beef and mutton had been fixed and he replied in the affirmative.

On the 31st October Mr. Fisken announced that the price had been agreed upon. He said he was pleased that it had been possible at last to make an announcement of terms. Most of the prices now announced had been accepted by the Board for some time, and it was only at the request of the United Kingdom government that publication of these had been withheld.

In the Age of the 28th October, Mr. Fisken is reported to have said that the prices agreed upon were fair to the producers and to the consumers in the United Kingdom. As a producer he considered them fair. The prices to be paid for Australian meat by the British Government would yield the Australian producer quite a handsome return.

On the 11th November, Smith’s Weekly published an article stating that, long before the official announcement, it had been well known in Sydney that England’s price would be a good one, and growers’ organizations had warned members to hold on until the official announcement. How was it that the growers’ organization were in a position to warn their members ? Obviously they must have had inside information, and I suggest that that information came from members of the Meat Board. Unfortunately the growers’ organizations did not make contact with all the growers in Australia. Smith’s Weekly also said that the announcement had been delayed for nearly three weeks after the price had been decided upon. Did the exporters know that the price had been fixed? Did the growers know? Definitely some of them did. They obtained their information through members of the board, and that I submit was a very undesirable procedure.

On the 1st November the journal Slock and Land made the following comment: -

Australian producers of meat readily accept the announcement of the good profitable prices which have been arranged with the British government for Commonwealth surpluses. The announcement is made after a delay in which prices at Newmarket for the last six weeks have allowed exporters a profitable clearance on the values announced. Tn the country the price paid in the paddock on the average will leave room for a very good profit to the buyer on the present fixed prices.

I do not blame the meat exporters for what happened. They were doing quite a legitimate thing. They were entitled in the ordinary course of their business to go into the market and buy fat lambs and then put them in the cold store, secure in the knowledge that a good profitable price would be forthcoming. I do, however, blame the Government.

The article in Stock and Land continued - :

In fact buyers, until the last week or so, have made hay at the expense of those who foolishly decided to accept the low values without ascertaining levels ruling at the principal auction centres.

I suggest that this reveals a scandal of major magnitude. It also reveals maladministration and incapacity on the part of the two Ministers concerned. The result was that, without, doing anything illegal, members of the Meat Board and exporters were able to obtain a substantial rake-off on the sales of meat. Under these circumstances, I take the Government to task, and suggest that the responsible Ministers should be asked for their resignations. The full facts of this scandal should be made available to the public. I make no accusations against members of the Meat Board. The full responsibility rests with the Ministers administering the department concerned. I hope that there will not be a repetition of this state of affairs when the contract is reviewed next year. I realise that the Meat Board has rendered valuable service to the primary producers of this country in its advisory capacity and by the collation of facts and figures relating to the industry. I suggest, however, that the method of price fixation and the procedure followed by the Ministers were altogether wrong, and showed a lack of capacity to handle the country’s business, especially matters of major importance such as this.

T should like to make one further point in connection with meat prices. Meat exporters in Australia to-day are few in number, and_ could probably be counted on the lingers of one hand - Vesteys, Angliss, Borthwick and a few others. Owing to the manner in which the industry is being manipulated, the exporters are able to arrive at an agreement amongst themselves, and to purchase their requirements without competing against one another. By arrangement, one exporter can acquire his exportable stock one day, and another exporter can have a monopoly of the market on the next day, and so on. They may have a gentlemen’s agreement amongst themselves, and, as a result, be able to reap a substantial profit on the price fixed by -the British Government. They have their buying margins, and, because they can eliminate all competition, they know from the moment they step into the market that they are assured of substantial profits. The correct procedure for the Government to adopt in order to remedy this injustice would be to commandeer or place under Government supervision all the meat to be exported from Australia. The meat could then be exported at cost price plus a small profit, such as that allowed to the makers of munitions. Unless that be done, we shall find that the fixing of a price for meat will mean not a reasonable profit to the grower, but a large profit to the concerns engaged in exporting meat, to the United Kingdom and other overseas countries. I protest against the state of affairs and ask that a searching inquiry be made, so that those responsible may be brought to book, and steps taken to see that a similar position does not arise in the future.

Mr RIORDAN:
Kennedy

.- I join with the honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. Pollard) and other honorable members in protesting against the Government’s action in continuing the sitting of the House ‘ at this late hour while Cabinet Ministers and other responsible members of the Government are in their beds. We have been sent here to do our job to the best of our ability and we should not be compelled to work under such adverse conditions.

Throughout this session there has been talk of war, preparation for war, and defence matters generally, in regard to which the Labour party’s policy has been clearly stated by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin). I should like, however, to touch upon one matter which I have dealt with in this House on several occasions, namely, wireless facilities in north Queensland. It is time that the Government recognized its responsibility to the people in the outback regions of Queensland and provided them with at least some semblance of a radio service. It has been my bitter experience, and, unfortunately, the bitter experience of the people of western and northern Queensland, that the Government is entirely unconcerned with the demands of the people outback for a better broadcasting service. During my short membership of this Parliament. I have approached no less than three PostmasterGenerals on this matter, but, despite the fact that broadcast news to-day has a value which it has not had in recent years, the department has refused to depart from the attitude which it has adopted ever since a case for the establishment of a radio station to serve northern and western Queensland was first placed before this Parliament. The attitude of the department, in stubbornly refusing to grant this long-standing request is not Only unjust, but is also unreasonable. At present there are three regional stations on the Queensland coast, situated at Brisbane, Rockhampton and Townsville, but none of these stations is of any benefit to the people living in the western regions of the State, and all three are certainly useless, so far as north Queensland is concerned, except to listeners who have expensive receiving sets, or those residing in areas adjacent to Townsville. In 1937, the Government announced that it proposed to increase the power of the shortwave station VLR, which is situated in Victoria, in order to provide the people of north and west Queensland with a better short-wave news service. However, the only news broadcast consisted of market reports announcing the price of fish in Melbourne or similar stupid items. It should give to the people of Queensland news concerning matters of interest to them. Only the most costly receivers are capable of receiving broadcasts from VLR. Even if the Government were prepared to provide a satisfactory service through VLR. it would not be received by the majority of people in Northern and “Western Queensland, because they cannot afford to pay a high price for broadcasting receivers. The Government should not be unmindful of the claims of those who live in the remote parts of the Commonwealth. In areas where no relay stations have been established, provision should be made for the utilization of B class stations for the rebroadcast of national programmes. The men outback are interested in news items and market and weather reports, and their families should bc given every encouragement to listen to programmes of cultural and educational value. The people of Northern and Western Queensland were told that when the new station was established at Dalby their difficulties would disappear. However, when that station went on the air they found that the reception from Dalby was even worse than that from Brisbane, Rockhampton and Townsville. This is just as live a question to-day in Northern and Central Queensland as it was some time ago when shire councils, progress associations, branches of the Australian Labour party and other bodies endeavoured to move the department to provide an improved service. I understand that at present eight broadcasts of war news are made at regular intervals daily by the national stations. It is regrettable to think that that service is made available mostly to people living in the more thickly populated centres who are able to read the news in the newspapers, whilst those in remote areas are denied it. A privately owned B-class station, operating on low power, has been established at Longreach. The proprietor of that station offered to broadcast the Australian Broadcasting Commission’s national news relays free of charge, but his offer was rejected. He then asked the PostmasterGeneral (Mr. Harrison) if he would allow the station to receive one relay each day from 4QG at trunk line rates and, in addition, the national news service broadcast from 4RK. He said that if the department waived the lining up and splitting fee, he was prepared to pay the trunk line rates to broadcast the national news service. He .would have derived no material benefit from these broadcasts, but he was public spirited enough to endeavour to give to the people of Northern and Western Queensland a service which the Postmaster-General would not provide. As an alternative, he asked that the station be allowed to receive news by landline from Brisbane at press rates. He gave an’ assurance that the broadcast, matter would be published in the local newspaper, the Longreach Leader. That proposal was rejected, as it constituted a contravention of the Post and Telegraph Rates Act. I may mention in passing that an endeavour to have the act amended, to enable that to be done was made some time ago, but for some reason the amendment was shelved. I made representations to the PostmasterGeneral in regard to this matter, and in his reply, dated the 1st December last, the honorable gentleman stated: -

With reference to your further personal representations regarding the supply of a news service to 4LG, I would advise you that under the plan recently drawn up for the dissemination of news following the Conference convened by the Minister for Information, the matter of arrangements for the transmission by commercial stations of news items is entirely the responsibility of the licensees. The plan was adopted after a very careful consideration of all the factors involved, and the Post Office has no power to concur in any departure from the scheme agreed to by the various parties concerned. It is impracticable, therefore, to permit 4LG to participate in the Australian Broadcasting Commission’s National News Relay.

The alternative proposal that the station be allowed to receive news by landline from Brisbane at press rates cannot bc accepted for the reason that the Post and Telegraph Bates Act in its present form precludes the granting of such a concession.

I fully appreciate Mr. McKeon’s anxiety in the matter, but I regret that in view of the facts as presented above the department is unable to take any action in the direction indicated by him.

I would suggest to Mr. McKeon, however, that he might more fully explore the possibility of utilizing the B.B.C. short-wave services, keeping in mind that the installation of suitably designed equipment should enable the satisfactory reception of certain of the several Daventry transmissions intended for listeners in this country, and which are availed of by other broadcasting organizations in the Commonwealth.

I regard that letter as most unsatisfactory. We are passing through abnormal times, and the position of the people in Northern and Western Queensland is quite different from that of people living in other parts of the Commonwealth, inasmuch as they have been completely neglected in the matter of wireless broadcasting. What right has the Government to demand the payment of wireless licencefees from people for whom no service is provided? It has been suggested that if this state of affairs continues, the time will come when there will not be a single broadcast receiver in Northern and Western Queensland. During the summer months even .expensive high-powered sets will not bring in VLR or any of the stations located on the coast. In the north and west wireless reception is possible without interference for only about four months of the year, and the lowpriced sets possessed by the average settler are useless for the greater part of the year.

Mr Harrison:

– That is not in accordance with the facts.

Mr RIORDAN:

– We have been informed by the Department of Information that it is proposed to open a new short-wave station on the 20th December which will be capable of broadcasting from Australia to all parts of the world. That is very desirable; but the Government appears to be more concerned in replying to the propaganda put over the air by other nations than in providing the facilities to which the people in the north are entitled.

Last year, money was placed on the Estimates for a regional station on ‘the hinterland of Cairns, but now the promised station is not even under consideration. Apparently, the Government made provision for the station last year in order to quieten people in the north who were making their voices heard in protest, but they are still as determined as ever to obtain a broadcasting service. The honorable member for Herbert (Mr. Martens) haS letters complaining about the poor radio reception in the northern portion of his electorate. It is high time that the facilities for which the people pay were provided. This service should not become a football of party politics. The Country party in this Parliament is as responsible as is the United Australia, party for the failure on the part of this Government and its predecessor to provide the people in the north and west of Queensland with regional stations. When the Labor party is returned to power, as it will be after the next elections, the people of my electorate will receive justice.

Mr MARTENS:
Herbert

– During the last war, 400,000 men left the shores of -Australia to fight overseas, but it was a voluntary army. In Queensland, there were more volunteers than could be handled. This shows that, when the workers have good living conditions, they believe that they have something worth fighting for. A greater percentage of the workers of Queensland than those of any other State own, or are purchasing, their own homes. In the sugar districts some of the men now. in camp have sacrificed a wage of from £10 to £12 a ‘ week in order to undergo military training. I have yet to meetany of these men who believe that compulsory training for service overseas is necessary, although I admit that there is a body of opinion in favour of compulsory service for home defence.

When in England honorable members on both sides of the chamber were assured by Mr. Anthony Eden, then a member of the British Cabinet, that Britain depended on the dominions, not for men, but for foodstuffs. In the House of Commons, the Prime Minister of Great Britain, Mr. Chamberlain, declared that the dominions would be well advised to make provision for their own defence, and that they could best serve the empire by providing Britain with foodstuffs and essential war materials. When Australia receives a request from Great Britain for men, that will be soon enough to consider the sending of troops overseas. The Sydney Morning Herald of the 30th November last contained the following : -

ATTITUDE OF SOLDIERS.

Hatred Lacking.

” A JOB TO BE DONE.”

FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.

London, Nov. 29.

There is a distinct change in the attitude of British soldiers towards the war, compared with the attitude of their predecessors in 1914-18.

Then there were lively , enthusiasm and hatred of the enemy. He was described as a “ barbarous Hun who . murdered women and children.” Soldiers in training, particularly in bayonet fighting, fostered “ the killer “ spirit.

To-day, while stern determination is not lacking, there is an absence of deep personal hatred. This may partly be due to mechanisation, which means fighting at a longer range and diminishes the likelihood of the bayonet ever being used, althoughbayonet exercises remain a part of the infantryman’s curriculum.

The attitude of soldiers to-day is best describedas Here is a sticky, grim job which has got to be done.”

The public’s reaction to the passing of three months without large-scale land operations and without the expected air bombings undoubtedly influences the attitude of the soldiers.

The Lord Privy Seal, Sir Samuel Hoare, in a speech at Chelsea said: “We were prepared for a swift, staggering climax instead of three months’ waiting and watching. People are saying that we are suffering from boredom. I believe that this feeling is altogether superficial.”

Sir Samuel Hoare gave a warning not to expect the early breaking of the German morale, saying that, although Herr Hitler had been foiled of his knock-out blow and Germans had been pinned down in muddy trenches on the Western Front, unquestionably war on a great scale was still ahead. This, he added, demanded everybody’s co-operation in a 100 per cent. war effort.

That suggests a desire on the part of some people to stir up a feeling against Germans such as was engendered in 1914-18, hut we have read in the press and heard over the air that, recently, when certain Germans were captured and interned by the British authorities, they were cheered and invited to join the British navy. This demonstrates clearly that men of different nationalities do not want to fight one another, unless there is good cause for it. Any sane person should try to bring the present war to a close as soon as possible, because, if it gets into full swing, the slaughter will be such as we have never known. Personally, I believe that the Maginot line will never be penetrated, nor do I think that British Empire troops will ever, in the words of the war song, “ hang their washing on the Siegfried line “.

A considerable number of conferences with the Attorney-General have taken place in connexion with the treatment of waterside workers at Innisfail, who have had a raw deal, thanks to the buccaneers known as shipping agents. The Transport Workers Act was placed on the statute book by a government of the same political colour as that now in power, and with the assistance of the Country party. This legislation has been used to penalize men, and make slaves of them, in the worst possible way. The present position in north Queensland, owing to the maltreatment of waterside workers, is such that the Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court recently cancelled the award, as far as it affected Innisfail, for six months, because the men were alleged to be going slow on the job. A considerable diminution of the output of the transport workers has occurred in that area; but during the last three and a half years large numbers of men have passed through the hands of the shipping companies, and most of the present waterside workers are new men, the former workers having left because it was impossible for them to get jobs. The reduction of the ouput was due to the fact that the men became aware that they were being slowly killed by the system of forcing them to load sugar at an unreasonably rapid rate.

The Waterside Workers Federation, the Permanent and Casual Waterside Workers Association, and another body not associated with any union have each appointed three representatives on a joint vigilance committee to watch the interests of all of the workers. The rate of loading which was killing the men was 35 tons an hour. After what the Judge called a free conference, he told” the general secretary of the Waterside Workers Federation that, unless the men went back to work, he would cancel the award, and it was cancelled. During the latter part of June and the early part of July the men were loading 26 tons an hour into ships at Innisfail, as against 24 tons an hour at Mackay, yet this socalled gentleman, who is supposed to hold the scales of justice evenly bet-ween employer and employee, cancelled the award without giving to the Federation any chance to show that the men were doing a fair thing. For about a week or ten days in June the men were loading about 20.5 tons an hour, as against 35 tons an hour formerly. The Judge is not prepared to take action against the shipping companies, who, I suppose, are acting in accordance with the wishes of. the present Government. There was a great reduction of the amount of work being done during June and for two or three days in July. That was due to the fact that the men were dissatisfied with the work they were doing, because the bull rope was a menace to their lives. I challenge Chief Judge Beeby or any other individual of his character to disprove my statement that the bull rope is dangerous ; I believe that any independent person will agree that there is grave risk. The Attorney-General himself was satisfied on. that point after making an investigation. The snapping of the bull rope could hurl two or three men into Mourilyan Harbour; they would be almost dead before they reached the water, and would have no chance of escaping. A terrific strain is imposed on the rope, which sways so freely that it might easily knock a man overboard in the ordinary course of loading .operations. The men object to working under those dangerous conditions. But Chief Judge Beeby takes no notice of them; he believes that the shipping companies can do no wrong, and that the men can do no right. With all due respect to any other opinions that may be expressed, I say that he is not fit to hold his position. Bie is unjust to these men, who are not the only people to suffer as the result of his failure to fulfil his promises.

On one occasion he told the shipping representatives that he did not want to inspect the method of loading lead ingots from Mr lsa into the holds of vessels at Townsville. He said that he was quite satisfied with the way in which the work was being done and, without making any further investigation, he promised to go carefully into the matter. But so far he has not done so much as I am doing this morning in bringing this matter to the notice of the Government. Agreement was reached over the handling of the ingots only by means of a conference between ‘representatives of the Waterside Workers Federation and the Mr Isa mining company.

Honorable members on this side of the House have asked the Government for copies of .the report in which the Minister for Trade and Customs recommended the repeal of the Transport Workers’ Act, but so far our requests have been unsuccessful. Nothing was done about that report, but the Government accepted without hesitation the advice of Senator Allan MacDonald, whose report, according to electors in my constituency, contained deliberate lies. From my knowledge of passages of that report, I can state that their allegation is perfectly true. Senator MacDonald reported that there were only from 30 to 40 members of the Waterside Workers Federation at Innisfail, but the membership of the Federation in that town has never been less than 80.

The workers at Mourilyan have never been given a chance; they have been hunted by the shipping companies, which have persuaded the Judge that they deliberately slowed down operations. When the general secretary of the Federation and the secretary of the Sydney branch, Mr. Barney Mullens, M.L.C., waited on the Attorney-General in Sydney, he told them that he would investigate their suggestions, and would confer with the shipping companies; but the companies took no notice of that; they knew that the Attorney-General would leave the matter in the hands of the Arbitration Court, where it would be safe for them, as the Judge would do nothing. The shipping companies are to-day endeavouring to break down the resistance of the waterside workers by the introduction of a contract system on the waterfront at Mourilyan. I have here a letter from the secretary of the Innisfail branch of the Waterside Workers Federation, Mr. L. H. Wheeler, in which he quotes resolutions passed at a public meeting at Innisfail and a meeting at the Mourilyan, sugar mill. Three hundred people at the Innisfail meeting passed the following motion : -

We the citizens of Innisfail and district desire to bring before your notice the grave possibility of industrial unrest if the Steamship Owners Association and its allied shipping companies are allowed to introduce contract sugar loading at Mourilyan harbour to the detriment of the livelihood of 80 watersiders who have always efficiently loaded the sugar of this port into vessels at award wages and conditions.

The meeting at Mourilyan was attended by unionists working in that district and i few other citizens, who resolved : -

In the event of contract labour being placed in operation at Mourilyan harbour this meeting of workers at Mourilyan mill refuse to load or assist in the despatch of any Sugar vo that port.

The matter is not going to end where it stands at present. The introduction of a contract system under the vicious provisions of the Transport Workers Act, evidently with the approval of this Government and of the Arbitration Court, will bring about an industrial upheaval of a magnitude hitherto almost unknown in Australia. The Waterside Workers Federation, permanent and casual workers and non-unionists have combined to look after their common interests. The fact that unionists will collaborate with nonunionists, whom they usually call “ scabs “ and “ blacklegs “, in order to protect their own lives, shows how seriously the position is generally regarded. If the contract system is introduced at Mourilyan, attempts will be made to introduce it in other places.

I hope that there will be a change of government in the near future and that that vicious thing known as the Transport Workers Act will be expunged from the statute book of this country for all time. Other legislation, such as the Crimes Act, could well be treated similarly. It might not be advisable to repeal that act entirely, but at least it would be in the interests of the people to make drastic amendments to it .and the Arbitration Act. For years past I and other members on this side of the House have agitated to have clauses inserted in bounty legislation in order to protect the well-being and the rights of the workers. I am glad to say that the Government is now complying with our requests, the most important of which is that the Arbitration Court be empowered to- give preference to unionists if it so desires. We have not asked that preference for unionists be enforced but have merely sought the granting of that authority to the Arbitration Court to be used at its discretion.. We believe that to be in the best interests of every one.

I do not believe that any one wishes the threatened hold-up at Innisfail to eventuate. I have made inquiries at Innisfail, Cairns and Townsville and have ascertained that those towns are seething with discontent because of the treatment meted out by the Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court. When this matter first arose, Judge Dethridge was Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court,, and he gave an undertaking to the Townsville people that he would take action about the method of loading lead ingots. He did not bring about any improvement of the conditions, because he fell down and broke his leg and had to go abroad for some months to recuperate. It was then said that no one could do the job until he returned; later the Chief Judge died and his successor became too busy, or perhaps did not wish to do the job. I am inclined to believe that he did not wish to do it. Unless the Government takes appropriate action this threatening industrial trouble will break out, and if that happens it will not do this country or the Government any good. The Government will not get volunteers for its armed forces by making slaves of the workers under the provisions of the Transport Workers’ Act. The chief reason given by Chief Judge Beeby for suspending the award was what he termed the “go slow” policy. When the men gave their explanation of the circumstances at the private conference at Cairns, he said; “ Don’t try to put that over me ; I have been on this job too long. You men are deliberately slowing down.” It did not matter to him what reasons actuated the men in refusing to load sugar at the rate desired by the shipping companies; he did not give them a legitimate hearing. To-day they have combined for their own protection, and will carry on their plans at all costs. Chief Judge Beeby does not care how hard the toilers have to work so long as the shipping companies and their agents are protected. He would not care if a waterside worker broke a leg. The waterside worker would not be able to go overseas for six months to recuperate on a magnificent salary from the Commonwealth Government; he would have to obtain compensation, and, if the shipping companies thought that they could evade responsibility, he would have great difficulty even in doing that. Because the men have slowed down operations in order to reduce the risk of breaking the bull rope, they are told that they are deliberately taking advantage of the shipping companies. It is unreasonable for individuals to bully the workers and accuse the men of going slow. If these critics had to do the work themselves they would soon realise what a strain the men work under. At present the men are loading 364 bags of sugar an hour. They have to manhandle 160 lb. bags of sugar over 20 or 30 yards and lower them into the hold where other men pick them up and stack them. When fifteen men can load 26 tons of sugar in an hour under those conditions, they are not loafing on the job. It is ridiculous to suggest that they are deliberately going slow by not loading 35 tons an hour, as they did formerly. I do . not blame the waterside workers for the attitude that they have adopted ; I blame the Arbitration Court and . the Commonwealth Government, through its Attorney-General, for their lack of sympathy and consideration.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

– I join with other members of the Opposition in protesting against the action of the Government in compelling honorable members to exhaust themselves by sitting in this chamber until the early hours of the morning in order to secure an opportunity to bring matters of urgent importance to the notice of Ministers. This sort of thing has led countries overseas to hold our democratic institutions in contempt. The Government is hurrying through its business as fast as it can in order to reach the safety of recess, and we must take advantage of every opportunity to bring to its attention matters about which we have cause to complain, hoping at least that something will be done in response to our appeals.

I complain about the methods adopted by contractors to recruit labour for works in the Northern Territory. I understand that a Mr. H. Willmott, a contractor for government works in the Northern Territory, visited the various States in order to engage workmen. He gave certain verbal undertakings to the men whom he employed; he told carpenters that he would pay for their fares to Darwin, to the amount of £15, and that he would thereafter make a weekly deduction of 15s. from their wages until that sum had been repaid. He further guaranteed that if they remained in his employment for six months the £15 would be refunded to them and they would be provided with second-class tickets to their homes. I understand that a similar undertaking was given, to labourers. Now. because they did not secure written undertakings, the men are experiencing great difficulty in persuading the contractor to fulfil his promise. The men, who receive not unduly high wages, have 30s. weekly deducted from their earnings, which is paid into the mess conducted by the contractor, and a further 15s. weekly is deducted to repay the cost of their fare to Darwin. Actually. £2 5s. is deducted weekly, so that they collect only between £3 and £4 a week. Married men who send this amount to their families are left penniless, and are unable to provide for their ordinary requirements. As the men are employed on government contracts, it is the responsibility of the Government to see that they are at least treated reasonably. The food supplied to them is not of the best quality. I know it can be said that if they are dissatisfied they can leave their employment; but Mr. Willmott dominates the employers’ organization, in Darwin. If a man should leave his employment he is blackballed and cannot obtain work with any other contractor. He is virtually compelled to remain at the work on which he is engaged. If a workman desires to return to the south, he has to retain the whole of his wages for four or five weeks and thus deprive his family of any money at all. In these circumstances it is only natural that there is a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the men who have gone to the Northern Territory to work on government contracts. I should like the Government to ‘indicate whether it will take immediate action to see that these men are treated in such a way that, if they remain in their employment for the period agreed upon, their fares will be paid each way. As only a verbal undertaking was given by the employer, he cannot be compelled to adhere to it.

I also desire to complain about the very casual way in which some Ministers treat matters brought before the House by honorable members. My complaint, which does not apply to every Minister, in this instance concerns the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender). Some time ago I brought under the notice of the House the operations of the mutual assurance societies, and the Assistant Treasurer agreed that he would have an inquiry made. “When the sittings of Parliament were resumed I asked him what had been done in regard to the inquiry, and all that he told me in reply to my first question was that an inquiry had been held, and that there was no justification for the allegation which I had made. I pressed him further as to what form the inquiry had taken, the persons who had been interrogated, and who had conducted the inquiry. I received the following reply :-

As to the first matter, it is presently receiving my consideration in respect of taxation legislation to he introduced into the House next year. As to tlie second matter, I personally gave consideration to it, and I am satisfied that the honorable member’s general allegation in respect of the directors of these companies is without foundation. As to the third matter, this clearly does not come within the ambit of the duties of the Treasury or the Taxation Department. An “ inquiry “ in the sense apparently used by the honorable member was not held. .

I did not claim that any inquiry had been held. As a matter of fact, I was continually asking whether an investigation had been conducted. It was the Acting Treasurer who said that an inquiry had been held. I contended that mutual assurance societies had been evading a payment of Commonwealth land tax by taking advantage of a section of the Act which provides for an exemption from taxation on property held by mutual assurance societies. The intention of the legislation is that an .exemption may be granted in respect of business premises which the societies occupy; but not in respect of real estate which they may acquire. The Acting Treasurer said that the matter would be inquired into and dealt with when legislation came before the House. I further said that it had been brought under my notice that in several instances directors of mutual assurance societies had used their public positions for personal benefit, and that the Government should have an inquiry conducted with the object of seeing .that such operations ceased, because the policyholders were not getting the benefit of savings effected by the directors. I mentioned how the directors could use their positions for their own benefit. I did not mention the name of any society because ait that time the Minister said that he was prepared to have inquiries made. I understood that I would be advised when the investigation would be- conducted, so that I could bring witnesses to substantiate my statements; but, as I did not receive any intimation concerning the investigation, I shall mention the name of the society. It is the City Mutual Assurance Society Limited, whose head office is in Sydney. The transaction in question relates to a property at 45-47 Darlinghurst road, Darlinghurst, known as No. 11 title; the reference is volume 3S23, folio 136. The particulars are as follows : -

Searches of Title Deeds show that on 29th June, 1934, this property was sold, by the Permanent Assets & Investments Co. Ltd. to Dr. Maurice William Ginsberg and Rebecca Ginsberg for £15,000.

On 24th February, 1938, this same property was sold, through the agency of a firm styled L. J. Hooker Pty. Ltd., to the City Mutual Life Assurance Society Ltd. for £26,000.

In the intervening four years no structural alterations, repairs or renovations that would materially increase the value of the property were effected.

The value of this property increased from £15,000 to £26,000, which, in my opinion, was a case of deliberate inflation of value which, in the circumstances, was unwarranted. It was suggested to me that the matter should be investigated by the government, which possesses certain powers in respect of the operations of such insurance societies. The directors of these societies appear to he dabbling in real estate, and values of properties which are offered at a certain figure are acquired at a much higher figure than that originally asked for the property which suggests that someone is benefiting to the detriment of the policy-holders. “When I told the Acting Treasurer that these matters should be inquired into, he said that he had personally conducted an investigation and that there was no foundation for my statements. I should like the

Minister to say on what evidence he based that opinion and how he could explain why the value of the property mentioned increased from £15,000 to £26,000. Any one conversant with property values in that area knows that from 1934 to 1938 there would not be a further increase to the degree indicated in this instance. This is only one of several companies carrying on this class of business. Probably the Minister met one of the directors concerned at the same club and over a glass of refreshment introduced the subject and, because he was told that there was no foundation for my statement, he accepted that assurance. I am not definitely stating there is anything wrong in what has happened, but in view of the information which I have supplied there are sufficient grounds for an inquiry. It may be said that if the policy-holders disagree with the policy of the society they can elect other directors. But can they? This is what happens. Notices of meetings are sent out to policy-holders probably a month prior to the date of the meeting. Many policy-holders reside in other States and in country districts of New South “Wales, and even those who live in the metropolitan area, and who could attend the meetings receive their notices so far in advance that when the date of the meeting arrives they have forgotten all about it. Many of the societies - the City Mutual Assurance Society is one - insist upon all their employees being policy-holders, so that when the directors wish to give effect to any policy all they have to do is to muster their employees, who outnumber the other policy-holders who attend the meeting. In one instance the directors of a society wished to increase their fees and they convened such a meeting in order to achieve their ends. The whole of the ramifications of these societies should be inquired into by the Government, but not in a hole and corner method, such as the Acting Treasurer believes in.

The Government’s proposal to send troops overseas is preposterous. The members of the Opposition have given sufficient reasons for the attitude which they adopted in this matter. One would imagine that a Government which believes that there is some necessity to send troops abroad would, at this period, give some consideration to the claims of those who fought in the last war. I have endeavoured to obtain from the Government consideration for some of these men who suffered as a result of serving overseas, but it always protects itself by observing a strict interpretation of the act or regulations, and in that way deprives many of these men of their dues. I cite the cAse of a widow of a returned soldier. She has young children dependent on her, and was living in a war service home in a suburb of Sydney. The health of one daughter became affected and she was ordered by the doctor to go to a dryer climate. While this woman was living in the war service home she received the little consideration that is given to the widows of ex-soldiers, but when she was ordered by the doctor to take her child to a dryer climate she had to vacate her home and go to live at Moree. She had to find a tenant for the home. Immediately she left the home the special consideration was withdrawn, and, in spite of the fact that for many weeks the place was vacant, the War Service Homes Commission insisted on the payment of the full monthly instalments. The result has been that for the first time her children are under-nourished. The few shillings that she gets by way of widows’ pension from the Government of New South Wales and repatriation pension from the Commonwealth Government go to meet the demands of the War Service Homes Commission. This woman is now wondering which Will be the more detrimental to the health of her daughter - the sea air from which the child was ordered by the doctor or undernourishment, from lack of food in the Moree district. I communicated the details of this case to the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) in the hope that the Government would exercise some of the powers that it possesses in order to make provision to ensure that the dependants of a deceased soldier shall not be compelled to live on such a low standard. The Prime Minister referred my letter to the Minister in charge of war service homes, who sent to me a stereotyped reply containing a lot of detail, but boiling down to the fact that nothing would be done by the

Government to assist this woman and her family.

Further to show the ridiculous position taken up by the Government in regard to the treatment of returned soldiers and their dependants, I direct attention to the attitude of the Government towards the provision of headstones for the graves of ex-service men. In many instances, although they desire to do so, the relatives of deceased returned soldiers cannot afford to place headstones over the graves. A headstone is of no use to a dead man, but I realize the sentimental motives that impel sorrowing relatives to want to mark the grave with a stone. The’ Government will undertake the responsibility for erecting a headstone only over graves of men who have died from war wounds. No matter how long a man’s service may have been, when he dies, unless his death is due to war wounds, the Government refuses absolutely to take the responsibility for the cost of marking his grave. The headstones provided by the Government for the graves of soldiers are cheap things, and it is paltry of the Government to refuse, on the plea of economy, to help bereaved relatives to erect a stone over the grave of their dead.

The case of a returned soldier living in my electorate came under my notice. I shall tell the Committee the disabilities from which that man is suffering, setting out those which are accepted as war disabilities and those that are not.

Accepted Disabilities: - Neurasthenia; urticaria; injury to the right leg; fractured nose; right fermoral hernia with operation; right inguinal hernia with operation.

Disabilities not accepted: - Neuritis, right arm; defective vision; glycosuria; emphyronia pulmonary fibrosia; spondylatis

The department grants him a pension of 12s 6d. a week in respect of the disabilities and ailments which it accepts as being due to Avar service.

Mr MARTENS:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– His war disabilities would be the cause of the whole of his ailments.

Mr WARD:

– Undoubtedly. Yet, the department, accepts some of them and rejects the others. In the last war recruits to the Australian Imperial Force had to undergo as stringent a medical examination as has to be undergone by recruits to the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. Yet, the claims of many returned soldiers are disallowed on the ground that the disabilities from which they are suffering were existent before their enlistment. I asked the Prime Minister whether on this occasion the repatriation legislation will be so framed that it will be impossible for pensions claims to be dismissed on the ground that the disability in regard to which the pension is claimed was existent before enlistment. In doing so I pointed out the stringency of the medical examination. The Prime Minister’s reply gave me no satisfaction. All that it said was that the matter would be taken into consideration. I do not expect that the Prime Minister will deal further with the matter.

Many of the things about which members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force are complaining could be rectified if the nien would make a stand. I do not intend to deal with the whole of the aspects of camp operations, but it is a scandal that cooks should -be employed from fourteen to fifteen hours a day at os. a day. That amounts to asking those cooks to work longer hours at lower rates of pay than they would receive outside. Enough cooks should be engaged to enable them to be worked reasonable hours.

Before the war broke out a constituent of mine applied for enlistment in the Permanent Military Forces. The medical officers reported that he was not fit for. service. Their verdict amazed him, and it amazed me, because I know the man personally. At the time when he was examined he was playing first grade rugby league football. That fact would not indicate that he was unfit. The man was greatly concerned and he asked me to ascertain from what he was suffering in order that he could be treated. I did so and I received the following reply from the Minister : -

With further reference to your representations of 13th June, on behalf of—- whose application for enlistment in the Permanent Military Forces was rejected on account of his being medically unfit, I have now made inquiries into the matter. The report of the medical officer who examined – discloses the nature of the complaint, but as it is the policy to treat nil such personal details as strictly confidential, I regret that I am unable to give you any further information on’ the subject.

  1. naturally thought that that was because I! had not received the written consent of the man involved. When I advised him of what had happened he gave me his written consent, and I again, communicated with the Minister, this time pointing out why the man wanted to know. I received this further reply: -

With reference to your further representations on behalf of— whose application for enlistment in the Permanent Military Forces was rejected owing to his being medically unfit, I regret I am unable to add anything to my former letter of 25th July, as the particulars of medical reports on candidates for entry to the Permanent Defence Forces are treated as strictly confidential.

Why is it necessary to treat this information as strictly confidential? The chap cannot force the doctors to pass kim, and, after they have rejected him it is little for him to ask that they tell him from what he is suffering. At his own expense this man got two separate opinions from specialists in Macquariestreet. Both gave him a clean bill of health, and it would appear that the military doctors were wrong.

Recently the Assistant Minister for Supply and Development (Mr. Holt) made a statement in which he said that :i shortage of labour in this country was retarding defence preparations. He laid stress on the shortage of skilled labour. At that time I had in my electorate a gentleman who is an experienced toolmaker. I understood that tool-makers were urgently required by the Defence Department. This man was employed at the Cockatoo Island Dockyard. At the outbreak of war he was discharged on the grounds that he was an alien, although he produced papers to show that he had been a naturalized citizen of this country for twenty-eight years. I communicated with the Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart), anticipating no difficulty in placing this man in one of the defence establishments. During the last war he worked at the Small Arms Factory, Lithgow, and when he left there he received a very satisfactory reference in regard to his work and conduct. It is about 40 years since this man left the country of his birth, Russia. Ho is not an enemy alien and he has married an Australian woman and reared an Australian family, most of the members of which are married and settled here. The Minister’s reply was a copy of a communication that the Assistant Minister for Supply and Development (Mr. Holt), had received from the Attorney-General (Mr. Hughes). It was in the following terms : -

With reference to your inquiry of 22nd September, 1939, regarding the case of Mr. J. Carloff, of 423 Bourke-street, Surry Hills, Sydney, a tool-maker formerly employed at the Small Arms Factory and Cockatoo Dock, who has lost his employment in consequence of Iiia birth in enemy country, although he has been a naturalized British subject for 28 years, I am advised that as Cockatoo Dock is controlled by private enterprise, it is not a matter in which the Commonwealth can take action.

With regard to the Small Arms Factory, Mr. Carloff was employed there some years and left of hi3 own accord, but when lie applied again for employment some months ago it was considered inexpedient to engage him.

It can be said that there is no doubt whatever regarding Mr. Carloff’s loyalty to his adopted country, but his origin is obvious, and his re-employment at the Small Arms Factory could only result in discomfort to’ himself as well as embarrassment to the factory management and employees.

It is not considered that thereby he is suffering any hardship, because there is a distinct shortage of competent tool-makers in the engineering industry and he should have no difficulty in finding employment.

The point I make is that wherever this man seeks work he is questioned as to bis previous place of employment. In view of his long service at Cockatoo Island, he is asked to produce some evidence as to why he left his position with that company. On hearing his explanation the firms to which he applies take up an attitude similar to that previously adopted by the Government towards him. Although he is a skilled tool-maker, and, despite the Assistant Minister ‘ > declaration that a shortage of this class of artisan exists, he cannot get a job.

The other day I asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior for particulars as to the cost, during the last twelve months, of motor cars that had been ordered in the name of each member of the Cabinet, and the respective departments to which this cost had been debited. My main reason for seeking this information was in order to substantiate certain statements which I had previously made and which were contradicted by the Minister for Information (Sir Henry Gullett). He endeavoured to convey the impression that I had not spoken the truth, but declined to supply any information to back up his denial. The reply furnished by the Minister for the Interior was -

Cost of motor cars ordered by members of Cabinet are not debited to each department but are charged to funds controlled by the Department of the Interior for conveyance of members of Parliament and others.

Although the Department could have supplied me with the information I requested - and I made quite clear what information I wanted - I was supplied with this evasive answer. No doubt that course was followed because, had I placed my question again on the noticepaper at the concluding stages of the session, an answer would not have been made available until next session. Thus an attempt has been made to frustrate my endeavour to substantiate my statements which the Minister for Information merely denied.

I now wish to make representations to .the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) with regard to the enlistment of trainee apprentices. This class of apprentice comprises men who, because they have passed the age to qualify in the ordinary way to be apprenticed to a trade,, are allowed to serve a special apprenticeship under a scheme evolved conjointly by the Commonwealth and the States. Some of them have already completed a number of years of training. One qf them was apprenticed to Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited. Along with a number of other young chaps, because of pressure- brought to bear on them by the management to force them to join the Militia, a practice which is adopted by many firms, he joined the Royal Australian Naval Reserve. He is an only son, maintaining an aged mother. At the outbreak of the war he was called up for service, and, I understand, will be so retained for the duration of the war. If that be done, and if the war should continue for any considerable period, he will be of an advanced age when he resumes his apprenticeship. So long an interruption of his apprenticeship will be a serious handicap to him. His mother has made sacrifices in order to give him an opportunity in life. I urge the Government to direct that in all cases trainee apprentices should be allowed to complete their apprenticeships before being, required to do any military or naval service. Similar exemptions are now given in respect of other classes of young men.

A few days ago I asked the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) whether he was prepared to increase the invalid and oldage and war pensions and, if not, would he tell me whether the Government considered the present rates of these pensions adequate. I also asked if he would explain any other reason which the Government might have for refusing to increase these pensions. The right honorable gentleman merely replied that the Government did not intend to take the course of action which I suggested. That can hardly be described as a fair answer to my question. At a time when we are initiating schemes for the fixation of prices of various commodities for the benefit of certain sections of the community - and all of these prices, by the way, represent increases on levels ruling at the outbreak of war - we should increase these pensions, which are the mainstay of thousands of people whose standard of living has been decreased by war prices. The Prime Minister may think that he was clever in evading my question, but 1 point out that a growing agitation is occurring outside of this Parliament as the result of the exploitation of the poorer sections of the community. Whether the Government intends to keep its word that it will at least attempt to prevent profiteering during the war I cannot say, but I should be amazed if it made that promise sincerely, because many honorable members opposite may be classified as profiteers themselves. A considerable number of them are shareholders in concerns which will benefit from the Government’s defence expenditure.

I also asked the Prime Minister to supply to me information regarding the shareholdings of members of the Cabinet, and also whether if any Minister had disposed of shares, such transfers were genuine transactions. The Prime Minister again gave me an evasive answer. On a previous occasion when I pointed out that the Prime Minister was a shareholder in some concerns that would benefit from the Government’s defence expenditure, the right honorable gentleman issued a statement to the press in Sydney in which lie said that he had resigned all of his directorates prior to becoming a Cabinet Minister. What I should like to know is whether he disposed of all of his holdings in companies which will benefit under the Government’s defence expenditure.

Mr Street:

– Yes.

Mr WARD:

– If that be so, to whom did the right honorable gentleman transfer his shares? That aspect is important, and the people of Australia as a whole have a right to be satisfied on this point. The Prime Minister should, therefore, be prepared at least to permit the matter to be closely examined. 1 should like to know to whom his shares were transferred, in order that the people may be assured that the transfers were genuine transactions.

This Government has handled the present crisis in a lamentable way. It certainly has not led the people to believe that it is providing for the adequate defence of this country. It has bungled one scheme after another. No sooner has it announced one proposal than it has come forward with another, with the result that the public is confused as to what are exactly the Government’s plans for the defence of this country. Every one knows that the Government has done a lot of talking with regard to the prevention of profiteering. The Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) has been throwing out his chest because he claims he has done a good job in exposing a section of the boot manufacturers who, he claimed, were conspiring to defraud the Government in connection with defence contracts. I agree that such action should be exposed in this Parliament. However, the matter should not be allowed to rest there. If an ordinary worker were considered to be guilty of a similar act, this Government would go to any extreme to punish him.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Martens:

– The honorable member has exhausted his time.

Mr CONELAN:
Griffith

.- It seems extraordinary that the House should be obliged to sit throughout the day and night. As the result of this long sitting honorable members and members of the staff are falling asleep. I also protest against the method adopted by the Chair in giving the call in this debate. T, and other new members, have been sitting here for hours waiting for the call, but other honorable members, who had left the chamber to have a. rest, have been given the call on their return.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).I point out to the honorable member that the Chair has been guided by a list on which the names of honorable members have been placed in the order in which they have attempted to get the call.

Mr CONELAN:

– I propose to deal with the statement delivered by the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street). Eighteen months ago this Government launched a recruiting campaign in connexion with the Militia, and the AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Hughes) was placed in charge of it. The right honorable gentleman visited Queensland, where members of the Labour Government in that State, and the Labour Lord Mayor and aldermen of the Brisbane City Council evinced a readiness to cooperate with this Government. They took part in the campaign to enlist 70,000 militia, and they sought recruits on the understanding that sixteen days’ continuous service should be given in camp each year. Since that time the Government has extended the sixteen days to a month, and has intimated that the men will be required later to spend three months in camp. Also, it reduced the rate of pay to 5s. Under pressure, the Prime Minister has agreed that the men should be paid s3, a day for these camp periods, but the Government, has been guilty of a breach of faith over the whole matter.

Mr Street:

– We are now at war.”

Mr CONELAN:

– That is so, but the Government could have given the men the opportunity to withdraw from the Militia and re-enlist, if they wished to do so, under the new conditions.

Mr Street:

– The men’s attestation papers provided that they should serve i? war broke out.

Mr CONELAN:

– If the Government sincerely believed in the voluntary system why did it not adhere to it? All the men required to fill the Queensland quota wore obtained. To-day the sons of Anzacs are very perturbed because they are not being permitted to enlist on the voluntary basis. If the Government really believes in universal training it should carry the scheme out properly. I quite believe, however, that its chief desire is to influence young men at an impressionable age so that they will join the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. Certain honorable members opposite did their utmost to kill the voluntary system, though I must give to the Leader of the Country party and his colleagues credit for having been consistent in their opposition to that system.

I am glad that the Minister for the Army has intimated in reply to an interjection by me that he intends to visit the Redbank camp in Queensland. I trust that he will do so at a very early date. When I visited the camp about four weeks ago I found a very unsatisfactory state of affairs. Half of the men were encamped under good conditions. They were in huts and had decent beds. The other half were required to live in tents and had to sleep on the ground. This differentiation is thoroughly unsatisfactory. We discovered a number of other anomalies that should be rectified.

The enlistment and examination conditions in Queensland seem to be very unsatisfactory, for 73 men who enlisted were afterwards rejected, yet some of them have been permitted to re-enlist. I received a letter only this week from a young man, whose father is an Anzac, in which he stated that he had enlisted again. I direct the attention of the Minister to the following extracts from a Brisbane newspaper report: -

They are insistent that the officers did all in their power to alleviate the camp’s hardships, even to spending their own money to huy extra food.

By 9 o’clock to-night between 1,000 and 1,500 signatures had been attached to the petition to Mr. Street.

It read: -

We, the nien of the Second Australian Imperial Force reception depot, Redbank, scud this petition to the Minister for the* Army.

We object to the unfair treatment which l”20 men of this battalion have received in being discharged without reason or adequate means of subsistence for the period they had to stay in Brisbane.

We ask for an investigation into their discharge, as we are certain that some men have been victimized.

Mr Street:

– I have never received that petition.

Mr CONELAN:

– That is remarkable to me. I suppose it was sent to some of the “ brass hats “ in Brisbane and they have neglected to forward it. The report continues : -

page 2432

DYSENTERY

Also, we are being asked to contribute ‘id. per man per day to buy food such as butter, of which we get about half an ounce per day per man, while army regulations stipulate 4 oz. per man per day.

Sanitary conditions are unhealthy, the lavatories being too near the kitchen. Messing and cooking utensils are never clean and tincooks are not qualified men.

As a result of the often disgusting condition of the food, dysentery has become prevalent in camp.

The conditions of tents and parade grounds are not up to army standard.

They are sandy and dusty.

Sleeping quarters are so dusty that sandy blight has sent many men to flic hospital, which is now so full that seven men are lying on the floor.

One example of bad food is that meat was maggotty before being boiled, but was put on the tables nevertheless.

We declared it black, but were ordered to eat it.

Cooks were actually seen cutting maggotty pieces out of meat.

This occurred on the 3rd or 4th of this month.

When complaints were made no investigation was made.

Conditions are such that many men have deserted.

Men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force at Redbank ask for an immediate and thorough investigation.

The Brisbane press has reported that only a week or so ago 150 lb. of meat had to be destroyed.

Mr CONELAN:

– Well, it does not in my home and I live in a sub-tropical locality. The Redbank camp should be provided with refrigeration conveniences. At present the meat is kept in an enclosure that is boarded three parts of the way up, and then provided with fly wire. If the doors are faulty or are left ajar the meat becomes contaminated. In all subtropical localities at least the military camps should be provided with refrigeration conveniences.

I have a complaint to make also in connexion with the Royal Australian Air Force. A man enlisted in Queensland just before he reached the age of 35 years. He was given a railway warrant to journey to Richmond for attestation. Upon his arrival there he was rejected because he had just passed 35 years of age. He was not given a warrant to return to. his home in Brisbane, and was stranded in Sydney for a fortnight. Hip case was brought under my notice and 1 referred it to the Acting Minister for Air (Mr. Holt). There is something radically wrong when a young man who enlists subsequently finds himself, through no fault of his own, stranded in a strange city and out of a job. Men should not have to pay in that way for their loyalty and patriotism.

To revert to the subject of the Redbank camp: I trust .that the Minister for the Army will take every necessary step to see that it is provided with all reasonable facilities. The right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page) made a complaint the other day about certain military camps in New South AA7a.les and referred particularly to their unsatisfactory sanitary conveniences.

Mr Street:

– I have been to one of the camps he referred to, and it is as fine a camp as I have ever been in.

Mr CONELAN:

– I am glad to hear the Minister say so. The conditions ai Redbank are anything but satisfactory. There is an open cut there from which the effluent runs out on to the roadway. It has had to be treated with lime. If a rainstorm should occur the drain would undoubtedly overflow and the effluent would run right through the. area with the result that a serious epidemic might occur, to the detriment of both the men in camp and the residents in the locality. I hope that the conditions at Redbank will be made at least equal to those of the camp referred to by the Minister.

The Government proposes to expend 1:63,000,000 on defence works this year, but apparently less than £3,000,000 will be expended in connexion with the 2nd Australian Imperial Force.

Mr Street:

– That amount will be required for allowance? alone.

Mr CONELAN:

– We have been told that we- must prepare for a three or four years war. I am aware that the Minister was favorable to the establishment of a standing army for Australia as recom mended by Lieutenant-General Squires. Had that army been organized it would not have been necessary to enlist men now for overseas service. In any case, the Labour party is strongly opposed to the sending of an expeditionary force abroad. We believe that our manhood should be retained in this country for its defence, particularly as, according to a recent newspaper report, men are being demobilized from the French army.

Mr Street:

– That is not a fact.

Mr CONELAN:

– Then the newspapers must be wrong once more, but they are the only source of information available to us. We have a Ministry for Information but it is wrongly named. It should be called a ministry for noninformation, for no information of any kind is made available to us from that, source.

I regret’ that except in relation to deferred pay and allowances for wives and children, the men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force are to be. paid only the same rates’ as the men of the 1st Australian Imperial Force. In 1914, the basic wage was £2 14s. 6d. a week, and that amount was paid, to Australian soldiers with dependants.

Mr Street:

– The basic wage rose to £3 19s. 6d. in 1918.

Mr CONELAN:

– That shows that the Government did not do the right thing by the soldiers and raise their wages when the basic wage increased. To-day the basic wage in Brisbane is £4 4s. Od. which is 60 per cent, higher than it was in 1914. In view of that increase, men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force should be paid 10s. Id. a day in order to be placed on the same level as the soldiers who were paid 6s. a day at the beginning of the last war. Let us examine the rates of pay for soldiers in the various dominions. First of all, in England, although the rate of pay is low, it has been increased by 50 per cent, since the last war. In Canada, a soldier receives 7s. 7d. a day or £2 13s. a week and his wife receives 7s. Id. a day, or £2 9s. 6d. a week. For each dependent child, be is paid 2s. 5d. a day or 17s. a week, making a total of £5 19s. 6d. for a man, wife and child. I have obtained these figures from the Montreal Standard, dated the 3rd September. 1939 - the day after war was declared - so they are up to date and authentic. In New Zealand soldiers are receiving 7s. a day or £2 9s. a week with 3s. a day for wives. A shilling a day is added for each child, making a total of £4 0s. 6d. a week for a man, wife and child. When the soldier goes abroad, that sum will be increased to £4 7s. 6d. a week by an extra shilling a day deferred pay. In Australia soldiers are receiving 5s. a day or £1 15s. a week with 3s. a day or £1 ls. a week for a wife, and ls. a day or 7s. a week for each dependent child, making a total of £3 3a. a week, while the soldier is in camp. Deferred pay has now been increased to 2s. a day when the men go abroad. It can be seen, therefore, that soldiers of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force are being paid less than soldiers of any other dominion, although generally speaking, they are used to better conditions. It cannot be denied that Australians are as good soldiers as the men of any other dominion, or, for that matter, of any other country. Their standard of living compares favorably with that of any of the other dominions, and therefore, it is only right that they should receive at least the equivalent of the basic wage. They are prepared to make great sacrifices and to undergo severe hardships in the course of their service. On the other hand, apparently this Government is prepared to support the capitalistic system and make sure that the directors of profiteering concerns receive 5 per cent, return for their money. If the Government were sincere, it would ensure that .those people who had the most to lose from a monetary point of view, made the biggest contributions to war funds. I was amazed to find that the revised budget, brought down since the House was last in session, provided for the expenditure of a further £40,000,000. The Government has ‘taken no steps whatever to increase taxation in order to find that money. That is an indication- that the Government is catering for- the wealthy classes. If it were sincere iu its endeavour to prosecute this war on the principle of equality of sacrifice, it would make sure that wealthy interests did not escape the- payment of their shares towards the country’s defence. These people can lose only their money, but the soldiers may lose their lives. I hope the Government does not intend to go right through the current financial year without imposing some additional tax upon those best able to bear it. In Canada the maximum rate of interest on a war loan is 2 per cent., and if the Commonwealth Government intends to pay any interest at all on money it borrows for war purposes it should not exceed that figure.

I support honorable members on this side of the House who have advocated the utilization of the Commonwealth Bank as a means of providing the necessary defence expenditure. The Commonwealth Bank is the people’s bank, and it has the resources of the nation behind it. The credit of the Commonwealth Bank could easily be made available without all this talk of inflation. If the Government would only take that action, half of the financial difficulties in connexion with this war would be solved. What will be the position if the war continues for three or four years, as some people anticipate? Goodness only knows where the money will come from, but there is no doubt that it will be found. Apparently it is a simple matter to raise £63,000,000 in one year for the purposes of destruction, but when a request is made to Parliament for a grant to relieve unemployment in Australia honorable members are told that no money is available.

Last session I drew attention to a newspaper cutting which stated that the Prime Minister had urged the financial institutions to conserve their loans for defence purposes. Immediately that announcement was made 1,500 men were thrown out of work by the Brisbane City Council. Other organizations became alarmed, and immediately cut down their staffs. In Sydney the Water and Sewerage Board dismissed 3,000 men. All that was caused by a general tightening of the purse strings. New South Wales and Victoria are fortunate in that large munitions factories are operating within their boundaries, and widespread employment is being given to workers. The smaller States, however, are being neglected and are receiving no benefit from “the defence works. In addition, soldiers are being sent from Queensland to be trained in other States. The Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) has said that, as yet, lie lias no idea when the 2nd Australian Imperial Force will go overseas. It is possible that in the near future we might hear that Australia can assist the British Empire in some other way, and these men will not leave Australia at all. With that possibility existing, why were they not left in their own States? It seems entirely wrong that the Commonwealth Government should have to send 3,000 men several hundred miles away to training centres when it is not known how long they will be away. I trust that, as time goes on, the overseas situation will improve and sanity will prevail. International financiers will have to realize that something must be done, otherwise a change of the whole of our monetary system will become necessary. That might bring about the conclusion of the war sooner than we expect.

Mr SPURR:
Wilmot

.I join with honorable members who have protested against the way in which the business of this session is being conducted. It is a travesty of the parliamentary system’ that we should be expected to vote this huge sum of money by a process of exhaustion.

In the final analysis, war activities will form a major portion of the expenditure contemplated in this measure. An important aspect of defence is organization. As a matter of fact, all war activity relies upon the organization of a community, not merely with regard to man-power, but also with regard to economic resources. I am rather astonished at the lack of organization which has been associated with our defence activities so far. Prior to the outbreak of war, we were told that complete defence plans had been drawn up by expert advisers, and that they could be put into operation immediately in the event of war coming to this country. We were led to believe that these plans were very complete and in great detail. When the war did come, 1. expected things to run smoothly; hut, instead, I found that considerable disorganization existed. Thousands of men were offering their services in all parts of Australia, and asking what, they could do to serve their country; but instead of being able to accent such offers immediately, the Government was embarrassed by the amount of .support forthcoming. When mobiliza tion of the Militia commenced, it was found that there was a shortage of clothing and equipment. A considerable time has elapsed since the outbreak of war, and even now the organization is far from perfect. [Quorum formed.] Many complaints have been made of the unfortunate lack of organization that exists in connexion with our defence preparations. I am not altogether blaming the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) for this state of . affairs, though I think the honorable gentleman must accept some responsibility. We were certainly not so ready to meet this eventuality as he led us to believe. At the outbreak of the war the Minister was trying to do the work of two or three men, and I am glad that the responsibility for the defence of this country is now being distributed more evenly over his Cabinet colleagues. I was surprised to learn in Melbourne the other day that quite a number of recruits were being sent on leave from the camps before they were supplied with complete .uniforms. Dealing with this matter the Melbourne Argus of the 6th December last in a leading article said -

The men of the Second Australian Imperial Force are entitled to the best, but at present because of some ineptitude which the Government should deal with ruthlessly, whether it be found at Administrative headquarters or in the Cabinet room, they are getting something far below that standard.

Apparently we are far from being wet organized. If we are to continue the system of voluntary enlistment which was supposed to be the policy of this Government surely we should look after the young men who offer their services to the country. A case was brought under my notice of a volunteer who reported at. Deloraine from an outlying part for medical examination. He was turned down by the doctor, and only a few days later he was instructed to go to Launceston for re-examination. No pass was issued for the rail journey, which the young man had to finance himself at a cost of £2. His father asked me if I could get a refund of the fare because his son had been unemployed and was on th« dole. I took up the matter with the Area Officer at Launceston by telephone and was practically insulted by him. Finally T brought it under the notice of the Minister for the Army in Canberra who treated me very courteously. I feel sure that, ‘by his good graces, the matter has now been adjusted. Had our defence organization been complete a rail voucher would have been forwarded with the instructions to report in the first place. The Area Officer at Launceston told tate that the hoy did not have to go to Launceston, and as he had failed to pass the medical examination at Deloraine, he should have known, he was not fit for service. The Area Officer said “ Had he .telephoned mc about the matter I could have sent him a pass to cover the rail journey to Launceston.” I said, “ Surely he is not expected to know these things.” His reply was that the hoy should make personal application foi- a refund, after which he very unceremoniously hung up.

One matter which should be dealt, with now and upon which a decision should be arrived at promptly is the determination of the conditions under which pensions will he granted to members.’ i. of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force who return from the war. This matter’ has been raised by several honorable members during this debate. Many of those who returned from the last war have been treated very shabbily by tlie ‘Government. The onus of “proof that their disabilities were brought aboi.it. by war service was thrown on applicants for pensions. Before the 2nd Australian Imperial Force departs from these shores the Government should announce that those who return from the war suffering from disabilities shall not have to prove that those disabilities were caused through war service, and that the onus of proof shall rest on the department. All of the men of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force have had to submit themselves to a stringent medical examination, and are physically fit. If, in the years following their return from the war, they find themselves -in ill health, it should be the responsibility of the Government to prove that their condition has not been brought about by their war experiences or else pay a pension.

I rose mainly to deal with conscription. T take this opportunity to make my position clear on this issue, particularly iu view of the attitude said to have been adopted by the Labour party in Tasmania.

That matter has been referred to constantly in this House and I want it to be clearly understood that I have never voted for conscription in Tasmania, and that, under present conditions I certainly will not vote for it now. This question of conscription should not ha’ve arisen at the present time, because all parties represented in this Parliament were pledged against conscription before the last elections. I challenge any honorable member tb deny the accuracy 6f that statements

Mr Archie Cameron:

– It depends upon what the honorable member means by conscription. I won my seat on a policy of compulsory! military service.

Mr SPURR:

– I am glad to hear the honorable member say that; at least, it makes his position clear. Dealing with the question of conscription on the 19th October, 1937, the then Prime Minister, the late Mr. Lyons, is reported in the Argun, as having said : -

Conscription lias never been considered by tlie Cab ki et. I am able to assure tlie people that there is no present intention to apply conscription in Australia, and so long as 1 continue to lead the Government there will be no conscription here.

The Argus also reports the late Mr. Lyons as having replied to an interjection in the House on 21st October, 1937, as follows : -

Yesterday I gave an assurance that there would bc no conscription while I remained in office. To-night I give the same assurance in the name of tlie whole Government.

Again, on 29th October, the late Mr. Lyons is reported to have said: -

Mr. Curtin, apparently in an. effort to find some solace for the defeat of -his party, says that the Government was obliged in the last fortnight to give pledges which it had no intention of carrying out. In the next breath he claims credit for having compelled the Government to pledge itself against conscription and being committed in .ah overseas war:

The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) commenting on the result of the elections is reported by the Argus of 25th October, 1937, as having said : -

The whole of the new Parliament is pledged against conscription, and that is a valuable contribution to the people’s welfare which Labour has achieved.

In his comments on the result of the elections the late Mr. Lyons is reported by the same journal to have said : -

Conscription has no place iu our policy, and it will have no place in it.

From this it will be clear that the late Prime Minister committed not only himself, but also all Ministers of his Government against a policy of conscription in Australia. The only way in which conscription can be introduced into this country at present is by honorable members who support the Government breaking the promises made before the last elections by their then leader, the late Mr. Lyons. During the debate on the international situation in this chamber on 16th November last, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curlin) said: -

This Government proclaimed that it would not conscript men for military service. That can be regarded as a fair interpretation of the statements made by the late Prime Minister, Mr. Lyons.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) interjected : -

I challenge that.

He said this in spite of the very definite statements made by his late leader as I have quoted him. Honorable members opposite only quibble when they try to draw a distinction between compulsory military training and compulsory military service. This Government proposes compulsory military service as well as compulsory military training in the event of an invasion of this country, and that means conscription. The Minister for the Army has admitted this. The only alternative is to adhere to the policy enunciated by the then Leader of the Government before the last elections, and depend on. volunteers to defend Australia. That is the. policy which Labour has advocated all through.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– To meet a volunteer enemy?

Mr SPURR:

– The only thing that would justify the establishment of compulsory military training in Australia would be the failure of the voluntary system. When we remember that between 300,000 and 400,000 men volunteered to go overseas during the last war, it is an insult to the manhood of Australia to-day to say that sufficient numbers would not volunteer to defend these shores against invasion. We, on this side of the chamber, have every confidence that the government will secure by the voluntary system all of the men necessary to defend this country. Honorable members opposite have changed their views with regard to this matter. Their only concern is to get cheap soldiers. Those who supply boots, clothes and food for the troops must get a profit, but, in dealing with flesh and blood, patriotism and service are demanded irrespective of pay. Political necessity forced the Government to provide the recent increase of military pay. The Government said that it would provide an extra ls. a day on the return of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force to Australia. This means that the soldiers will not get one* penny extra at the present time through the wage adjustment just agreed to. In fact, the extra cost to the future is being . passed on.

A feature of the compulsory training system that is likely to cause serious trouble in the near future is that conscripts and volunteers are to go into camp together for their training. When I recently asked a question in the House regarding this matter it was not answered to my satisfaction.

Mr Street:

– I say most clearly now that they will be in the same camps as they were in 1911.

Mr SPURR:

– The invidious distinction between the pay of the conscripts and the volunteers, who will be doing the same kind of work, is bound to cause friction. If the Government is looking for trouble, my tip is that it will find trouble. It is disgraceful that such a thing as this can happen in free Australia. In all sincerity I urge the Government to reconsider its decision in this matter. If the two classes of men arc put in camps together, one is almost certain to be throwing off at the other by saying “ I get 8s. a day; you are a conscript, and only get 5s. a day”. That might easily cause a riot in a camp. Does the Government want this to happen?

I hope that the conditions of the soldier’s generally will be improved, and that ere long, the Government will increase the pay of both the militiamen and the members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force at least to the level of that given in New Zealand or Canada. I trust that the war clouds will soon pass by, and that before the end of this year a just peace will have been concluded. . If the nations display goodwill tn one another, and international justice prevails, the coming Christmas season will be a merry season for this old world.

Mr SHEEHAN:
Cook

.- I draw attention to the chaotic condition of the wool industry as a result of Great Britain having taken over the Australian wool clip and the automatic cancellation of contracts. Instead of work being found for thousands of men in developing this Australian industry, thousands are threatened with loss of employment. The local fellmongers are unable to compete in the open market, owing to the fact that the price of wool has been fixed. Sufficient greasy wool is not available for scouring or carbonizing. Out of 8,000 bales recently on hand, only 50 bales were made available to the local fellmongers. The manufacture and export of wool tops is an industry of growing importance to Australia. In fact, Australian exports of tops have reached one-ninth of- the total quantity exported, by Great Britain. This is an excellent achievement. This industry should be saved and encouraged. 1 1 should not be discouraged and alma = destroyed, as it was after the previous British purchase of Australian wool.

The firm of F. W. Hughes Proprietary Limited, of Botany, has expressed its anxiety to keep all of its employees in constant work. It desires to conserve its. connexions with the large meat exporters, to ensure the continuity of supplies of sheepskins, which it has hitherto secured by being always ready to purchase them’. It also wishes to conserve its connexions abroad with customers who rely upon it for tops of the exact type which each requires. It exports to Canada, China, Mexico, India, England and Greece. All of these countries, except . England, take comparatively little raw wool from Australia, having little or no combing machinery. They are all becoming increasingly large users of wool tops. It is safe to predict that many countries will be denied wool tops, because England will not be able to export as usual during the war. It will be sound economy for Australia to endeavour to get some of these markets, even if they be handed back to England after the war. Instead, we are apparently to forgo the trade we already have and discourage any expansion.

Another point worth considering is the storage of wool. With a clip of 3,000,000 bales, and shipping . for probably only 1,000,000 bales, the problem of storage will become acute. Every probable avenue should be kept open to move the wool. As much as possible should be shipped as tops, thereby eliminating about 50 per cent, of “the weight and 55 per cent, of the space otherwise occupied. It is also desirable that spinning and weaving mills in dominion, allied and friendly neutral countries should be kept supplied with wool tops at reasonable prices. In this way we shall avoid driving these good customers into a determination to put in wool-combing plants of their own and to get their supplies of wool from a competitive country like South America. Once trade is driven from a channel it is hard to get it back again. It is only reasonable that manufacturers of tops should be allowed to continue selling for export direct with control by licence or permit issued by the Customs or Commerce Department, on evidence that the exports are for bona fide consumption in dominion, allied or friendly neutral countries.

It has come to my knowledge that P. W. Hughes Proprietary Limited has shown every reasonable desire to keep its industry moving, and has not attempted to make undue profits. Representatives of this company stated at a recent deputation to the Minister for Commerce that, if it is considered necessary to apply collective selling to wool tops, the same as to wool, the company would offer no objection. If a large profit resulted from the sale of its tops to dominion governments or dominion manufacturers, it was satisfied that the major portion of such profits should be available for division between the United Kingdom and the Australian wool-growers. This could be accomplished, either by the company paying into the pool a rate per lb. on each lb. exported, or, alternatively, the surplus stocks produced over the quantity required for its own spinning and- weaving by working three shifts, might be appraised on an equitable basis, the tops being taken over for the scheme and sold collectively, wherever war essentials would seem to be best served. That was a reasonable suggestion, but the Government has not drawn up a permanent and equitable scheme to give to this industry the balance that is necessary to maintain employment in the industry. The Sydney Morning Herald is in no way hostile to the present Government, yet in its issue of the 23rd October last it drew attention in a sub-leader to an anomaly in regard to wool, lt stated -

AN anomaly in wool.

To give effect to the agreement for the British purchase of the Australian wool clip, the Federal Government issued regulations last month which prohibited the sale of any wool or wool tops. As a result of this action, the manufacturers of wool .tops, noils, and carbonized wool, are now threatened with the loss of a valuable export trade. In addition to creating unemployment, the loss, of such trade would be in direct conflict with the declared policy of the Government, expressed, on the one hand, by encouragement of the export industries, and, on the other, by control of foreign exchange and the foreshadowing of import restrictions.

That journal agreed that the Government was lax. The wool clip has been handed over to the British Government as from the outbreak of war on the 3rd September, but no permanent agreement has yet been made. The position is in a state of flux, and men employed in the industries affected are receiving notice each week that their services will be dispensed with. Only last week I asked the following questions of the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies -

Has the Prime Minister yet been able to consider the matter raised in a telegram sent by me last Saturday regarding the effect of the licensing system for the export of hides and skins? As 300 employees of the woollen mills o£ F. w. Hughes Pty. Ltd. at Botany are to bc dismissed - some to-morrow and the balance on Friday - can he say now, whether the Government will revise the policy whereby wool with a yield of 44 per cent, or over must be sent to the United Kingdom for scouring in order that Australian mills may scour any class of wool and thereby retain employment for the men engaged in the industry?

The Prime Minister referred the matter to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) who, in the course of his reply, made the following statement - lt is claimed that the decision whereby permission has been granted for the export of sheepskins in quantities equivalent to those shipped by individual exporters during November, 1938, has caused an increase in the price of woolled sheepskins and is likely to result in unemployment in the Australian fellmongering industry. From the information in the possession of the Government, it appears that no difficulties have arisen in this connexion in either Victoria or South Australia.

Inquiries made into the difficulties which are alleged to confront Sydney fellmongers have revealed that since the 31st August there have been all round increases of the prices at which woolled sheepskins are being sold in Sydney. It appears that these price increases were solely due to competition between local fellmongers. During the period AugustDecember, 1938, purchases by local fellmongers accounted for from 30 to 35 pur cent, of all skins offered. From January until the present time there has been a steady increase of their purchases as thu following figures show: -

I am under the impression that the fellmongers, who, according to the Minister for Trade and Customs, purchased 80 per cent, of the sheepskins on the 24th November, are not buying for the local market. I believe thatthey are buying for export purposes. Representatives of the fellmongering industry at Botany have informed me that woolled skins are not available now as they were formerly. Workers in the wool and basil industry have always maintained that all wool and sheepskins should be retained in Australia for scouring and carbonizing. Only recently a wool expert from Yorkshire said that the scouring of all greasy wool, the fellmongering of skins and the scouring of skin wool in Australia would be welcomed by Great Britain. He predicted that at least twenty Yorkshire firms would establish plants in Australia if this were done, and would thereby invest much capital and provide work for many thousands of Australians. He added that the same security would not be felt in. England after the war as would be the case if the owners had their plants in operation in Australia. Being so far removed from the scene of hostilities, the work could be carried out without fear of interruption. We have been told that if an embargo were placed on exports, overseas traders would desert our markets, but this would not be the case. “We now have a golden opportunity to develop the fellmongering industry in Australia. We have the wool, and one of the main difficulties that will confront the British Government in handling our- clip will be that of transporting it overseas. If Australia could export scoured wool only, instead of greasy wool as at present, only half the shipping space would be required. The Commonwealth Government should encourage the development of this industry. It would definitely begin a new era of plentiful employment at Botany for men who only a few weeks ago expected every Friday . to be a “Black Friday”. That state of affairs need not occur so long as Australia retains control of the wool clip. Therefore I ask the Government to encourage wool scouring and carbonizing and to prohibit the export of sheepskins in order that this industry may develop to the fullest degree.

I have received a request from residents of Tempe that the non-official post office there be converted to an official post office in order to relieve congestion. Many new industries have been established in the district and a new post office is badly needed. A similar need exists at Waterloo. Industries in that locality receive three or four consignments of mail daily, but they are about two miles distant from the nearest post office and have to make special arrangements to collect each delivery. Most of these industries are established in the vicinity of the Australian Glass Works. A new service would benefit a large number of residents as well as the factories I have mentioned and a big transport depot.

I regret that the Empire is at war but, like the honorable member for Wilmot (Mr. Spurr), I hope that this conflict will bring about the death struggles of the present economic system and the birth pangs of a new civilization. Although a war of three years’ duration has been forecast and contracts have been let for that period, I hope that hostilities will be at an end by the time this House resumes next year. It is deplorable that a civilization like ours should be preparing for mutilation and slaughter for a term of years.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

– I draw the attention of the Attorney-General to the urgent need for a review of the basic wage. Conferences have been held all over Australia for the purpose, of arriving at some formula for a fair wage and the alteration of the present system of the automatic adjustment of it to the cost-of-living figures, which determine the basic wage. The Attorney-General will realize, no doubt, that cost-of-living increases will be inevitable as the result of the war. Seventy-five per cent. of the wage workers are covered by wages board and Arbitration Court awards or other legal enactments, which fix the basic wage on the average cost-of-living figure. As the costofliving figures rise, due to greater demand, the proprietors of industries transact more business. The costofliving figures then go up because increased business creates further demand for goods and service in the community. That means that the employing section obtains an advantage; I do not mean an illegitimate advantage as the result of unfair price increases, but a fair advantage resulting from the greater turnover. Strange to relate, however, when the employer obtains extra business, the employees, as the result of that very process, obtain less and less value for their wages. They obtain more work, but their wages become less effective as the cost-of-living figures rise. I ask the Attorney-General to consider this position because it will cause a lot of discontent unless something is done to remedy it. The only solution that I can suggest is that the basic wage be loaded, as it was loaded by Judge Powers some years ago. so that it will balance the loss which the employees sustain during the periods intervening between the regular adjustments of the wages to the cost-of-living figures. The minimum time between wages adjustments is three months and in about 50 per cent. of the cases it is six months. As soon as the basic wage is fixed in the period we are now entering, it will graduallybut surely become less and less effective because some prices will increase, almost imperceptibly, but nevertheless definitely, each day. That position arose some years ago and it was so unfair that Judge Powers added 3s. to the basie wage. He said on that occasion : - lt is very obvious that in this period, when prices are rising, the wage which I fix to-day will lose its value every . day until it is adjusted again.

In order that the workers might be compensated for that lag he added 3s. to the basic wage. When the depression set in that loading was removed and there is nothing now added to the basic wage to balance the lag. Unless this is done again, obviously the workers are not getting the real wage fixed by the Court. Naturally, men and women on the basic wage are asking that something be done, and arc holding conferences in an endeavour to evolve a method of effecting an adjustment. When the Government examines this situation it will agree with me that some action should be taken along the lines I have suggested. I hope that the AttorneyGeneral will, recommend to Cabinet that something be done before other methods are suggested. I am not hopeful that thc cost-of-living figures will not go up. because my experience has been that the workers only obtain, regular work and a decent wage when the figures are rising. When the cost-of-living figures are falling, the workers are at a decided disadvantage. Although it is difficult to make the necessary adjustment it is better for every one in the community when, the figures are stabilized. The basic wage is fixed on the cost of living, but. the figures are adjusted only at the end of each quarter or at the end of every six months, and when the figures are going up losses must be incurred between the periods of adjustment. I strongly urge an increase to balance this loss.

Mr THORBY:
Calare

.It is not my intention to discuss any of the items on the 600 pages of documents which are before this chamber in connexion with the budget, the Estimates, the Auditor-General’s report, various financial proposals, and the Consolidated Revenue Fund. some of which have been referred to by honorable members. I wish more particularly to direct attention to the fact that we are supposed to be discussing a budget, which the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) said is the first £100,000,000 budget ever presented to the Commonwealth Parliament. Yesterday we were informed that the Govern ment proposed to pass the Estimates and dispose of the .Appropriation Bill by to-day. Having been in the chamber almost continuously for 21 hours, and having followed the various subjects discussed by honorable members on both sides of the chamber, I now feel it my duty to protest very definitely against the procedure which has been followed. Although we are at war and conditions are abnormal we are expected to debate intelligently in a very limited, time the largest budget which has ever been submitted to a Commonwealth Parliament, involving important problems of finance. I say unhesitatingly and in all sincerity that it is unreasonable, unwise,, and impossible for us in such a short period to deal with the multitude of proposals which have been brought before us.

Mr Conelan:

– And the party to which the honorable member belongs is responsible.

Mr THORBY:

– My party is not responsible. I did not interject once when the honorable member was speaking, and I resent his attempt to interrupt my speceh. I sympathize with those Ministers whose duties have compelled them to remain at the table for many weary hours. Personally I am in a state of exhaustion, and in common with many other honorable members who have remained in the chamber throughout the sitting, I find it impossible to deal with the multitude of problems involved in this budget. We are expected to sanction the expenditure of tens of millions of pounds and to dispose of this enormous budget in an unreasonably short period. This Parliament has already given the Government unlimited power under the National Security Act to legislate by regulations, enabling it to perform acts which could not be performed constitutionally in other circumstances. The House met at 10.30 a.m. yesterday and it has sat continuously until now.

Mr Makin:

– It is most, unfair to the officers of the House, and particularly to the members of the Hansard staff.

Mr THORBY:

– As an ex-minister I know of the serious disabilities which this system imposes upon departmental officers, and also upon the officers of the House. I have seen men collapse while performing their duties in this chamber owing to the unreasonable hours they have had to work. In these “ circumstances it is impossible for honorable members to continue to perform the duties expected of them. It would not have been unreasonable had the Government asked honorable members to sit over the Christmas holidays or even on Saturdays and Sundays. When the House had been sitting for only fourteen days it adjourned in the middle of a week when we could have remained here for two or three additional days. On other occasions the House has not sat on Fridays. There is no reason why the sittings of this Parliament could not have been extended, by which means this unseemly rush could have been avoided. There is a tendency on the part of some to ridicule those who endeavour to express the views of their constituents. I represent 50,000 electors and in my electorate there are an additional 50,000 persons under the age of 21. How can I protect their interests? That can also be said by all the other members of this chamber. To-day we have disposed of the Appropriation ( Works and Buildings) Bill and have had a lengthy debate on the budget, but the first item of the Estimates has not yet been passed. Many subjects could be raised on behalf of those located between Thursday Island in the north and Tasmania in the south. I regret exceedingly that the Government should ask the committee to pass the budget in such a limited time and at such short notice. If we attempted to offer opposition we would be charged with disloyalty. How can we be expected to offer constructive criticism to guide Ministers in the administration of their departments? The Government, has obtained authority to handle millions of pounds worth of primary products, and millions of pounds of expenditure in respect of industry. In consequence of the war the Government is now compelled. to assume control over certain activities, and has responsibilities far greater than those which it has to shoulder under normal conditions. We are being governed by regulation andon my office table there is a stack of regulations, many of which should be debated in this chamber. I sincerely trust that in future the Government will give more notice concerning its intentions, and in that way obtain the best service from this national legislature.

Mr HARRISON:
PostmasterGeneral · Wentworth · UAP

– Notwithstanding the protest made by the honorable member for Calare (Mr. Thorby) and other honorable members concerning the lengthy sitting which I trust is about to terminate, I think that it will be agreed that this budget should be passed so the money may be available to carry out the essential services of the Commonwealth. I know that honorable members will not expect me to answer in detail any of the requests which have been made; but I assure them that I shall bring them under the notice of the Ministers concerned who will give them their closest consideration.

Item agreed to.

The general debate being concluded-

Remainder of proposed votes taken as a whole, and agreed to.

Motion (by Mr.Spender) agreed to -

That the following resolution be reported to the House : - “ That including the several sums already voted for such services there be granted to His Majesty to defray the charges for the year 1939-40 for the several services hereunder specified a sum not exceeding £40,090,300.”

Part 1. - Departments and Services - other than Business Undertakings and Territories of the Commonwealth.

Part 2. - Business Undertakings

Part 3. - Territories of the Commonwealth.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Resolution of Ways and Means, founded on resolution of Supply, reported and adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Spender and Mr. Harrison do prepare and bring in abill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

page 2443

APPROPRIATION BILL 1939-40

Bill brought up by Mr. Spender, and passed through all stages without amendment or debate.

page 2443

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate without amendment or requests : -

Rules Publication Bill 1930.

National Oil Proprietary Limited Agreement Bill 1939.

Customs Tariff (No. 4) 1939.

Customs Tariff ( Exchange Adjustment) Bill (No. 2) 1939.

Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) 1939.

Customs Tariff (No. 5) 1.939.

Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Bill (No. 3) 1939.

Customs Tariff (No. 6) 1939.

Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) (No. 2) 1939.

Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Bill (No. 4) 1939.

Customs Tariff (No. 7) 1939.

Excise Tariff (No. 3) 1939.

Customs Tariff (NewfoundlandPreference ) 1939.

page 2443

WHEAT INDUSTRY (WAR-TIME CONTROL) BILL 1939

Bill received from the Senate and (on motion by Mr. Spender) read a first time.

Sitting suspended from 7.17 to 11 a.m.

page 2443

PRINTING COMMITTEE

Report No. 7 of the Printing Committee brought up by Mr. Jennings, read by the Clerk, and - by leave - adopted.

page 2443

PATENTS, TRADE MARKS, DESIGNS AND COPYRIGHT (WAR POWERS) BILL 1939

Message received from the Senate intimating that it had agreed to the bill with amendments.

In committee (Consideration of Senate’s amendments).

Clause 7 -

Where the Attorney -General is satisfied that it is difficult or impracticable to describe or refer to any article or substance without the use of a trade mark registered in respect of that article or substance . . . the AttorneyGeneral may . suspend the right to the use of the trade mark given by the registration thereof so far as regards use thereof by the applicant to such extent and for such period as the Attorney-General thinks necessary . .

Where an order has been made under the last preceding sub-section, an action for passing off shall not lie on the part of any person interested in the trade mark in respect of any use thereof which, by virtue of the order, is not an infringement of the right to the use of the trade mark given by the registration thereof.

Senate’s amendments -

Leave out “the right to the use of the trade mark given by the registration thereof so far as regards use thereof”, sub-clause (1), insert “ the rights given by the registration of the trade mark so far as regards use of the trade mark “.

Leave out “ right to the use of the trade mark given by the registration thereof “. subclause (2), insert “rightsgiven by the registration of the trade mark “.

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · North SydneyAttorneyGeneral · UAP

– I move -

That the amendments be agreed to.

The amendments, made by the Senate are of a formal nature only. The bill, as passed by this House, referred in clause 7 to the right to the use of a trade mark given by the registration thereof. In strict law, registration of a trade mark does not ‘confer on the registered proprietor any positive right to the use thereof, hut rather prevents other persons from using it. The clause has therefore been amended to make this position clear.

The need for these amendments has been brought under my notice by the Bar Council of New South Wales.

Motion agreed to.

Resolution reported; report adopted.

page 2444

RAW COTTON BOUNTY BILL (No. 2) 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed from the 6th December. (nida page 2261), on motion by Mr. John Lawson -

That the hill bc now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

– This bill provides for an amendment of the Raw Cotton Bounty Act 1934-1938 in order to. extend tlie period of the bounty on raw cotton for one year from the 1st September, 1939, at the rate applicable during the last two years, namely, a basic bounty of 4£d. per lb. when the spot price of American middling cotton at Liverpool is 6d. per lb. Whilst I support the proposal, I strongly condemn the Government for treating this industry in such a niggardly fashion.. The restriction of the bounty to one year will have a bad effect upon the production of raw cotton in Queensland, because it will continue the lack of confidence and feeling of insecurity among cottongrowers at a time when increased production should be our aim. The industry was important in time of peace; it, is more important now in time of war. Cotton plays a very important part ii: defence; it is one of the raw materials used extensively in Australian factories, and in the manufacture of explosives. For many years there has been too much backing and filling by the Government in regard to the cotton industry. The Government has shown a deplorable lack of understanding of the problems confronting the growers of cotton. The Act should have been extended, not for one year, but for five years.

This matter was referred to the Tariff Board on the 2nd September. 1938. That body took until April, 1939, to consider it. A report was submitted to the Minister in April of this year, but he took until last September to make up his mind about it. The result of those delays has been that a large number of growers became disheartened and went out of the industry altogether.

I protest strongly against the action of the Tariff Board in framing its report before it had visited the chief cottongrowing districts of Queensland. The Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) slavishly followed the Tariff Board’s report, and in September last he introduced an amending bill providing for a bounty of 3£d. per lb. On the 22nd September, speaking to the bill then before the House, I strongly opposed the proposed reduction of the bounty, and I quoted the following opinion of Mr. Young, the general manager of the Queensland Cotton Board : -

Baw cotton bounty payments announced by the Government at 3id. per lb. with a maximum payment in any one year of £130,000. is a reduction of Id., from the present payment and will limit production to 1.5,000 bales, though there is a market hero for 35,000 bales. The new cotton bounty payments will definitely mean the extinction of cotton growing in Queensland.

In reply, the Minister said that he was following the recommendation of the Tariff Board. In my opinion, that body failed to appreciate the difficulties con: fronting this industry and the importance of fostering what is destined to become one of the great primary industries of Australia. However, at ray suggestion, the Minister was good enough to postpone further consideration of the measure, and to receive a deputation from the Queensland Cotton Board. A second bill which extended the existing legislation for another year was the result. I understand that during the forthcoming year further consideration is to lie given to the economics of the cotton-growing industry. I repeat that the production of cotton is of great value from a defence point of view. Existing Australian factories use 35,000 bales of cotton each year. Last year, Queensland produced approximately 1.2,000 bales of cotton, and this year’s production is expected to reach .13,000 bales. During the next two years, Australian factories will require at least 50,000 bales of cotton. The quantity of cotton produced in Queensland last year is evidence that the duty was not high, and did not, in fact, give a reasonable return to growers. But the most important factor in retarding production is the uncertainty of the seasons. That leads me to say that Australia’s requirements of cotton will not be met by local growers unless water conservation and irrigation methods be applied to the industry. The value of irrigation has been proved in the United States of America where half of the cotton of the world is produced. The average production of cotton in California is approximately 1,500 lb. to the acre, as against 300 Id. to the acre in Queensland last year. In Central Queensland, where most of Australia’s cotton is grown, the rainfall is from 45 to 50 inches a year/ but the rain falls at the wrong time. Most of the water runs to the sea and is wasted. A comprehensive scheme of water conservation and irrigation is necessary. There is scope for big development of the cotton-growing industry, since Australia imports every year cotton goods .to the equivalent of 250,000 bales of raw cotton. Greater co-operation between the Queensland and Commonwealth Governments is required for the development, of this important industry. During the transition period it is necessary that the bounty should be continued. Negotiations have been going on between the Federal Government and the Queensland Government regarding the adoption of scientific cultural methods, and the installation of irrigation schemes, and it is a thousand pities that the bounty should have been reduced by Id. per lb. in September last. The Government, by limiting the payment of the bounty to a period of one year, has made it very difficult for the Queensland Government to carry out its developmental schemes. The Queensland Government has the following projects in hand : -

  1. Assistance amounting to £30,000, to be given to growers during 1939-40.
  2. Additional assistance to individual producers for various farina and irrigation, including pumping schemes and land preparation.
  3. Investigational work already in hand for larger irrigation projects.
  4. Educational experimental works in connexion with cultural operations - irrigation and dry farming.

  5. As dry-farming methods must be continued until irrigation is firmly established. substantial assistance to be provided to prevent, retardation and to secure intensification of production.

    1. Depending upon satisfactory bounty arrangements, machinery for cotton-growing publicity ready to set in motion.

The Queensland Government, however, is discouraged by the lack of understanding of the needs of the industry by the Commonwealth, and by the lack of cooperation. The Commonwealth Government should immediately bring down a comprehensive measure providing for the continuation of the bounty for a period of at least five years. I have tried to find out the views of the elected representatives of the growers on the subject, and I have received the following communication from Mr. J. D. Young, General Manager of the Queensland Cotton Board : -

In regard to the present raw cotton bounty position, I have heard that the Commonwealth Government proposes to grant raw cotton bounty payments for only twelve-month periods during the present war, and that no long-term bounty payments covering a period of at least five years, as requested by the Cotton Board, will be brought into force at the termination of the present twelve months’ period which ends on the 30th November, 1940.

If such proposals are brought into operation it will have a most detrimental effect on the cotton-growing industry, as there will be no stability of price over a period and the Queensland Government, under those conditions, will not proceed with the comprehensive irrigation developments which they proposed to undertake provided price stability was granted to the cotton-growing industry” by the Commonwealth Government.

The importance of the industry can be understood from the fact that there are 3,600 growers, and that seasonal occupation is provided for 3,000 workers, just at a time when there is no work for them, in the sugar industry. I realize, of course, that the outbreak of war has created difficulties for the Commonwealth, but we must remember that the Queensland Government also has its difficulties, in view pf its limited resources and its heavy commitments for social services. If the necessary developmental work were done, the acreage yield could be increased from 300 lb. to 1,500 lb. The Queensland Cotton Board installed a number of irrigation schemes on selected farms in the Dawson and Callide Valleys . with very beneficial results. It was found that the installations, by increasing production, paid for themselves in a very short while.

In those areas most of the growers are engaged in mixed farming. They grow some cotton, and they also, run cows and pigs. Unless the necessary assistance isforthcoming, there is a danger that they v. ill go out of .cotton-growing altogether. The cotton-growing industry played a hig part in promoting closer settlement in the Dawson and Callide Valleys, and on the Upper Burnett. In districts where there were formerly only 20 to 30 families, there are now as many as 4’,000 people. When the settlers first took up the land, they felled and burned the timber, and grew cotton between the stumps. With the return from the crops, they bought cows and pigs. Now they have cleared the land properly, and are growing cotton on areas ranging from 20 acres up to as much as 200 acres.’ In the Callide Valley, there are many farmers who devote themselves exclusively to cotton-growing, but the tendency is, as I have said, to engage in mixed farming.

I urge the Minister to make a personal inspection of the cotton-growing districts of Queensland during the coming Parliamentary recess. I assure him that he will be given a good reception by the growers, the Queensland Cotton Board and the State Government. There is a good deal of prejudice in the south regarding industries which are confined largely to .Queensland. I have in mind the sugar industry and the cotton-growing industry, but most of that prejudice is dispelled when a visit is paid to the areas where the industries are being carried on. I am convinced that when the Minister sees for himself what an important part the cotton-growing industry has played in the settlement of central Queensland, he will come back with the deep conviction that we cannot allow this industry to go out. I do not stand for inefficiency in this industry or in any other, but the Queensland Government is prepared to do everything possible to promote efficiency. Therefore, I again appeal to the Government to make the bounty payable for at least five years, and thus save a valuable industry from extinction.

Mr. FRANCIS (Moreton) [11.27 a.m.”l. - I appreciate the action of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) and the Government in agreeing to the request of honorable members during the closing hours of the last session to postpone consideration of the Tariff Board’s report on the cotton-growing industry, so that honorable members might have an opportunity to confer on the subject with the Queensland Cotton Board. Just before Parliament adjourned the Tariff Board reports on the industry were presented to Parliament and we were invited to discuss a proposal for the reduction of the bounty on seed cotton. Honorable members protested against the proposal, and later the Minister received a deputation from the Queensland Cotton Board. After hearing the reply of the board to certain of the statements in the report of ths Tariff Board, the Minister agreed to extend thebounty at the existing rate for one year. Had he proceeded with the proposal for the reduction of the bounty, it would have resulted in the extinction of the industry. Whilst we appreciate that decision, we believe that the extension of the. bounty for one year is hopelessly inadequate to encourage the proper development of the industry.

The cotton-growing industry in Australia has had a chequered career. Cotton growing was begun in Queensland in 1S60, and by 1870 the area under cotton was 14,000 acres. This development was rendered possible by a world shortage of cotton brought- about by the American Civil War. After that war, the industry declined in Australia, and it was not until 1921 that it was revived. From 1921 until 1926, first the Queensland, and then the Queensland and Commonwealth Governments in co-operation, guaranteed the growers a fixed price for seed cotton. In 1921 the area under seed cotton in Australia was 1,967 acres. In the ten-year period up to 1931 the area increased to 39,768 acres and by 1938 it had still further increased to 65,796 acres. The highest acreage sown in any one year has been 74,610 acres. In 1926 the Bruce-Page Government changed the national policy in regard to the industry. Up to that time there had been no definite programme, but since then the industry has been developed by the provision of a guaranteed price for seed cotton. It was realized that the industry could not develop properly in Australia so long as our product had to meet uncontrolled competition from cotton grown in black-labour countries. It was realized that the industry had to be developed in two ways : - First, by providing a guaranteed price for seed cotton; and, secondly, by affording adequate assistance in the use of the seed cotton and the manufacture of spinning yarns, so that cotton materials could be produced in this country. I appreciate the action that various governments have taken in the formulation of plans for the steady development of the industry. Since a comprehensive view has been taken of the possibilities of cotton growing in Australia, rapid strides have been made. I remind the Government, however, that the fixing of a fair price for one year will not meet the needs of the case. Unless a long-range plan is maintained the industry will languish ‘ and its future development will be impeded.

Australia imports cotton goods valued at approximately £15,000,000 per annum. This emphasizes the wide scope for the development of the industry. I know of no other industry in this country which has a field capable of such great expansion. Many thousands more acres of land could profitably be put under, cotton with the obvious result that thousands more prosperous farmers could be established in the industry. In consequence of certain tariff proposals tabled in this House last week, in pursuance of a report of the Tariff Board, the main recommendations of which the Government has adopted, the manufacture of new raw materials will probably be undertaken in this country with a consequent demand for possibly another 50,000 bales of cotton each year. This also shows clearly the necessity for adopting a long-range plan for the assistance of the industry.

The principal problem facing the cottongrowing industry of Queensland is production. The industry, as I have said, was revived in 1921, and during the period up to 1939 the crop has been exclusively grown under the natural rainfall conditions. The average yields of seed cotton per acre obtained under this method of production are very low and unprofitable to the growers, and unless the yield can be greatly increased, and some measure of stability ensured, the industry will be faced with gradual extinction under our erratic and uncertain rainfall conditions.

At the last meeting of the Queensland Cotton Board this important problem of production was fully discussed, and the board expressed most clearly the opinion that it was’ only by irrigation developments and the production of crops under irrigation culture that the industry could be placed on a sound agricultural basis and stability and profit brought to it. Subsequent to the presentation to the House of the Tariff Board’s report on this industry the Queensland Cotton Board, emphasized the necessity to adopt a long-range plan. It was after the presentation of that report to the Government in April, 1939, that negotiations were commenced between the Commonwealth and Queensland Governments relative to the future of the industry. The urgent necessity to increase the yield per acre was recognized. The main basis of the negotiations was that the Queensland Government should undertake extensive and comprehensive irrigation developments for the production of cotton within the State. It was realized that such developments meant a longterm plan, and the expenditure of very considerable sums of money. Preliminary to and in justification of investigation and developmental work, the Queensland Government requested that a satisfactory bounty rate for cotton production over a stabilized period of at least five years should be granted to enable it to proceed with vital cotton irrigation projects.

I appeal to the Minister to make an early re-examination of this whole subject. “With the help of the very competent officers of his department who have done extraordinarily valuable work of extreme worth to the national exchequer, I am sure that he could develop a longrange plan that would effectively meet the needs of the situation. I never hesitate to express my very deep appreciation of the work of the officers of the Trade and Customs Department in encouraging our primary industries. This .view is shared by the Premier of Queensland and other people in that State. It is essential, however, that the assistance to this industry should be given by some method other than annual grants that are liable to discontinuance or variation.

The renewal of the present bounty will maintain, approximately, the prices that have ruled in recent years and enable the growers to continue operations despite the fact costs have already appreciably increased under war conditions. Fertilizers, hessian, twine, and other requirements have increased considerably in price.

The cotton-growers’ position, even with the renewal of the full bounty, is less favorable than that of most other primary producers, but the Government’s action has restored some measure of confidence amongst growers. I hope though that the Government will not overlook the outstanding need for early action in regard to future extensions of the bounty. Previous bounty acts have been of five years’ duration.

In this connexion the Minister mentioned in his second-reading speech on the original Raw Cotton Bounty Bill two months ago that the Queensland Government had recently undertaken to provide for the quickest possible conversion of cotton production from dry farming to irrigation, and to conduct a special campaign for the expansion of instructions to farmers as to the best cultural and rotation methods. He also said that there would be a substantial increase of quality, and of the number of the personnel of the cotton research station for the specific purpose of intensifying scientific work on plant-breeding, pests, diseases, soils, fertilizers and cultural practices.

I understand that complete conversion to irrigation will cost the. Queensland Government at least £700,000, and that the other responsibilities accepted by it will involve other heavy additional annual payments. The Queensland budget recently adopted by the State Parliament provided for special expenditure, of well over £50,000 for the current financial year on this programme. I therefore urge the Commonwealth to announce a longterm policy for at least five years for the continuation of the bounty on raw cotton under a plan of full co-operation with the Queensland Government, especially in respect of the changing of production to irrigation which would reduce production costs tremendously and therefore enable the bounty to result in obvious benefit to Commonwealth taxpayers. Probably seven or eight years will be needed to convert all cotton production to an irrigation basis, and such a period would be ideal for the next bounty act. However, even a five year term would be of great value to both the Commonwealth and the cotton industry. The absence of such a :o-ordinated Commonwealth and State plan has virtually lost a valuable year in the adoption of important and essential reforms in the industry. I warn the Government against any undue delay in announcing a lengthy extension of the bounty following the passage of this bill. A prompt announcement is necessary to restore the confidence of cotton-growers in the beneficent purpose of the Commonwealth Government, which has already assisted the industry^ as the Minister stated in September last, to an amount of nearly £1,200,000. If undue delay occurs in this matter the cotton growers will not be able to make adequate plans for increasing their production to the full degree necessary to meet the Australian demand which has been created by the actions of several Commonwealth Governments, including the present Government.

The present demand of the Australian manufacturers is, I understand, for approximately 50,000 bales per annum, but it is possible that war conditions will compel the Government to afford protection to the manufacturers of new types of cotton goods which will require even double that quantity. It has been reported in the press that certain cotton manufacturers intend to make canvas, duck and motor tyre fabrics. These goods, which, can be easily made, will require tremendous quantities of raw cotton.

Cotton-growing affords infinitely larger possibilities of expansion in Australia than any other industry. It would afford an ideal means of providing an alternative occupation to some thousands of wheat-growers whose present livelihood seems to be in grave danger. The Government has accepted the view that a large number of farmers now engaged in wheat production in unprofitable areas, and on unsuitable land with a poor rainfall, will have to be removed from their holdings and established in other occupations unless a heavy financial burden is to be placed on the shoulders of the general taxpayers every year. The wheat industry must be re-organized unless the Government is prepared to face the prospect of making annual grants to the growers totalling millions of pounds. In my opinion the adoption of a long-range plan for the assistance of the cotton industry offers the best prospect of assisting wheat-growers who are in dire straits. I hear the honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) interjecting. I am sure that if he could give close attention to the prospects of the Australian cotton-growing industry he would realize its worth, and he would, not find it necessary to make almost tearful appeals to the Government every time he speaks for added assistance to the wheat-growers, for he would realize that they may best be assisted by developing the cotton-growing industry and transferring wheat-growers from their present occupation to that field of activity. But before this can be done a long-range programme must be adopted.

I express the warm appreciation of the members of the Queensland Cotton Board of the action that the Government has taken, and I sincerely trust that the opportunity which the coming recess will afford of examining all of the circumstances of this industry will be accepted, with the result that a satisfactory long-range plan will be devised. I express thanks also for the courtesy and consideration extended by the Minister and hi& officers to those who met them- in Sydney to confer on these problems. My final word is that it is absolutely essential that a long-range plan shall be developed without any further delay.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I support with pleasure this bill to provide for a bounty on the production of raw cotton. Successive Ministers for Trade and Customs have extended a great deal of assistance to the cotton-growing industry. The establishment of the industry is due solely to action taken by a Commonwealth Government. The present AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Hughes) was responsible for the first assistance granted, and later the industry was assisted by the provision of a bounty by the Bruce-Page

Government. After passing through many critical years, the industry is still struggling along. Some general understanding must be reached, between the Commonwealth Government and the governments of those States in which cotton is grown, for the adoption of a long-range policy for its assistance. I realize that any new industry has to surmount many obstacles. Efforts should be made to concentrate on classes of cotton suitable for growth in Australia. The respective governments should endeavour to get together and evolve a long-range plan for the assistance of this national and valuable industry. The cottongrowers have been struggling along with an increased production every year. It is estimated that the Australian crop this year will yield 17,250,000 lb. In spite of this increased production the industry has still to be assisted year by year by the payment of a bounty. Australia uses annually 350,000 bales of raw cotton. Of that quantity, it is estimated that 13,000 bales, or less than 4 per cent., will be produced in Queensland this year. It would be very dangerous to increase the duties on imported raw cotton as a means of protecting the cotton-growers because of the large quantity of imported cotton, a large proportion of which is of a kind the growth of which, has never been attempted in the country and is not used in the manufacture of cotton fabrics. A review of this matter some time ago showed that, of 550 cotton fabrics manufactured in other countries, only 50 are manufactured in Australia. It is generally recognized by the cottongrowers that if the industry is to be developed as a .means of providing employment for our people in opening up virgin scrub country and providing raw material for our defence requirements, we must evolve some wellthoughtout policy for its future. Therefore, a concerted attack must be made on the difficulties which confront cotton-growing at the present time. Much difficulty is experienced by growers by reason of the dry conditions that exist about December when cotton should be taken away from the ground. The export of raw cotton from Australia in 1934 amounted to no less than 5,000 bales. By 1936 the exports had dwindled to 404 bales, and they have ceased entirely since 1937. To-day, however, the needs of the Defence Department have opened up a new market for the absorption of the Australian crop, and the future of the industry is much brighter. Experiments conducted in the defence factories have proved that Australian cotton is suitable for defence requirements. The Queensland Cotton Board and the Defence Department are conducting further experiments. All that the cotton-growing industry needs is assistance to assure to the grower a crop in all seasons. The successful continuation of cotton-growing in Queensland depends upon the removal of cotton-growers from areas of doubtful rainfall. In areas of insufficient rainfall, and where no permanent water supply is available, pests are numerous, particularly the boll weevil. There is a proposal in Queensland for tlie installation of a system of individual irrigation. It is proposed that money should be made available to farmers for the purchase of pumps in order to enable them to exploit their own private water supplies. I trust that the Commonwealth Government will co-operate with the Queensland Government in the establish- * ment of a long-range plan for the assistance of this industry. If that be done, the growers will have some assurance of success and- will be quite prepared to borrow money for the installation of irrigation plants to ensure, the reaping of satisfactory crops. I support the bill.

Mr BLAIN:
Northern Territory

– I support the remarks of the three honorable members from Queensland who have given their blessing to this bill. I do so, primarily, because I know that ‘ when cotton-growing is established on a sound basis in Queensland, the case of the cotton-growers in the Northern Territory may be looked upon with favour “instead of being frowned upon as. it is now, not only by Ministers, but- also by the executive officers controlling the Northern Territory in both Canberra and Darwin. There are millions of acres of land in the Northern Territory suitable for the production of cotton. . “Whilst I congratulate the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) on the introduction of this bill for the con tinuation of the payment of the bounty on raw cotton, I believe that the Government should go further and adopt a longrange plan for the assistance of the industry for a term of, say, five years. Obviously the Government is not familiar with the need for agricultural planning and the growth of rotational crops. I have been, in close contact with senior officers of the Queensland Agricultural Department, who have always been very courteous to me in offering their assistance in the agricultural sphere. They have given me valuable advice, and have sent seed to the farmers whom I represent on the Katherine River. They are anxious to co-operate with the growers in the Northern Territory in producing seed from cotton ginned in the Northern Territory. Mr. “Wells has been in control of the cotton section of the Queensland Agricultural Department for seventeen years, and is an expert in cottongrowing. The manager of *the CottonBoard, Mr. Young, is also a very capable officer. Both of these gentlemen agree that, in small acreages under cotton in one locality, nature’s balance is not disturbed, but that where large areas of land in one locality are planted in cotton, it is very difficult to control diseases and pests, particularly boll weevil. They have devised a scheme whereby they are now preparing one-stand ginneries which they propose to make available to growers for hire to permit them to produce pure seed, suitable for growth in their locality and free from disease, the incidence of which is so noticeable where operations are carried on haphazardly. In many areas in Queensland the soil has too high a nitrogenous content for the growth of cotton. The plants develop magnificent growth but very little cotton. One method of overcoming this difficulty is to plant a crop of a kind which will absorb a large proportion of the nitrogen in the soil. Rhodes grass is very suitable for this purpose, as it rapidly depletes the soil of its nitrogenous content. If cotton is grown on soil of too high a nitrogenous content, or of too high fertility, the plant becomes too bushy and will not. provide seed. In some areas in Queensland the soil is so rich that it is necessary for farmers to go to a lort of trouble in its preparation for the satisfactory growth of cotton. Some areas are rich with basaltic content suitable for peanuts and corn. Northern Territory soils have been maligned as being unsuitable for any agricultural production, but we have abundant water in the rivers, sufficient almost to float a battleship, and these farms are situated on the river banks. Instead of having to grow crops to take the nitrogenic content out of the soil, we have land lying ready for the planting of cotton. I have never been able to impress upon the Commonwealth Government the fact that these areas, particularly .those along the Katherine River, are eminently suited to the growing of cotton and tobacco, which could be cultivated conjointly. An expert on tobacco is employed at the Botanic Gardens in Darwin, and he has informed me that samples of tobacco recently brought to Darwin from the Katherine River have grown within 14 weeks, whereas in other parts of Australia the period of growth is usually 16 or 17 weeks. This expert is highly qualified and has been stationed at Ashford in New South “Wales and Mareeba in Queensland and he is convinced of the suitability of Northern Territory soil for the production of tobacco. I have not yet received from Dr. Dickson a report as to whether that expert’s opinion is confirmed by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to which samples of the tobacco have been forwarded, but I shall ask the Minister for the Interior to expedite the submission of the report. I have made these statements to counteract a lot of silly nonsense to the effect that the Northern Territory is unsuitable for anything but a. few ticky cattle belonging to Vestey’s, in which this and previous Ministries, and the present senior executive, have’ placed a great deal of credence. This nonsense must not continue, and while I am able I shall endeavour to hunt down the racketeers who promulgate it. There are other problems in connexion with the cotton industry upon which I have conferred with Dr. Cumpston in his capacity as Chief Quarantine Officer. He has helped me to elucidate the Customs Regulations and I think that we have now decided how cotton from the Northern Territory can be sent to Queensland. That State prohibits the entry of ginned cotton or lint, but, as there are no factories there, that is of minor importance; the main factories are in Melbourne and Sydney. The Queensland Cotton Board has offered to the Northern Territory a onestand ginnery at a price of £300. I ask the Government to take note of that, because that may provide the key to cotton production in the Northern Territory. Seed has been bought from the Queensland Cotton Board and shipped to Darwin; the matter has gone so far now that we must continue, and I ask the Minister not to let down the enterprising farmers in the Katherine River area. It is just as necessary to assist them as it is to assist Queensland growers with a five-year plan. If the Commonwealth Government would supply that £300 ginnery on a rental basis to the farmers at Katherine River, the way would be clear for the establishment of the cotton industry there. The communications I have received from the Executive indicate that that body has not, even a rudimentary knowledge of the cotton market in Australia. ‘ When it informed me a few weeks ago that Queensland grew all the cotton needed in Australia) I was so amazed that I telegraphed Mr. Wells, the Brisbane expert, for verification of the approximate figures that I had prepared, which indicated that Australia’s production amounted to 5,000,000 lb. annually, whereas the actual requirements of the whole country amounted to 13,000,000 lb. annually. Mr. Wells replied that last year Queensland grew 4,500,000 lb. of cotton, whereas Australia’s consumption was 12,500,000 lb. Therefore, we are producing little more than one-third of our requirements. Those facts fortify the statements made by earlier speakers that Australia has suitable land and an adequate market. The Commonwealth fostered the cotton industry in the first instance, and it should continue to foster it in the one area over which it really has direct control, and that is the Northern Territory. The Northern Territory provides Australia’s No. 1 economic problem, and cotton is one of the few crops that will solve that problem. I trust that the Minister will not reject my request for the provision of a ginnery for the farmers on the Katherine River area. One farmer in that locality has installed machinery worth £3,275, and has effected improvements to his property to the value of £4,675. The tobacco-growing activities in that area have been given tardy support by the Government. It refused to allow the entry of Rhodesian peanut seed two years ago, and now it is attempting to deny that fact, knowing quite well that it has made a mistake. The natural rotational crop for cotton is peanuts. That has been proved > in Queensland and in the southern areas of the United States of America, where the economic problem is similar to that existing in the Northern Territory. One crop leaches the soil inordinately, and the other being a legume builds up the soil in readiness for a further crop of the other commodity in the following year. When my petition goes to the Minister for the Interior, I trust that he will not disregard tlie interests of farmers in the north, but will give them treatment similar to that accorded to farmers who have been granted enormous concessions on the River Murray irrigation areas in the south. Nobody seems to be very interested in those concessions, but a hue and cry is raised as soon as a small bounty is provided for the northern areas. It is our job to develop the Northern Territory by encouraging the production of suitable crops. Farmers in the south are more favoured, because their land will produce a greater diversity of crops.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– This bill deserves the support of every party in this House. I agree with what the Government has done, but I point out that the cotton industry should not be considered by itself. To-day with the Empire at war, we are faced with the broader problem of the fibre industry. The British Empire is well supplied with wool and jute; but its supplies of cotton and flax are inadequate. Since the change-over from wheat to other industries was first mentioned, I have impressed upon the Government the necessity for a thorough trial of linseed flax cultivation in Australia.

Mr Holt:

– Investigations are being made along those lines at present.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– Those investigations were being carried out over twelve months ago, but apparently very little has been done since then. The position to-day is that the United Kingdom requires about 100,000 tons of raw linseed flax annually and of that quantity about 98,000 tons comes from the Baltic countries, the overwhelming proportion of it being produced in Russia. We are facing a war of unknown duration, and we have our own difficulties in regard to fibre generally. The Government must, therefore, think quickly and make sound decisions affecting the future of the flax industry. Just as cotton can replace wheat in the northern areas, so can linseed flax replace wheat in many of the southern areas and thereby establish a more -balanced economy. Opportunity is provided to effect a change-over from an industry which has been in the doldrums for the last ten years to one that shows signs of being able to supply the needs of Great Britain as well as our own. The flax industry provides not only fibre but also valuable linseed oil, which is in great demand in many manufacturing industries. I realize that I have been allowed considerable latitude in my remarks on this bill and I’ shall not press the question further, but I urge the Government to investigate this matter earnestly and take some definite action.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- I am very glad that the Government has reconsidered its original proposal to reduce the bounty on the cotton-growing industry. That would have been a devastating blow leading to the decline of Ihe industry. The scheme at present in operation was not instituted in 1920 as stated by the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis) ; it was instituted in 1934 after a great deal of consideration and extensive inquiries by the Tariff Board. As the then Minister for Customs, I visited the cotton fields in company with Queensland Federal members, and after an inspection of the Dawson and Callide valleys and other districts, we evolved a scheme which put into gear the whole system of growing, spinning and . weaving. This scheme brought all of the unsound or out-of-date plans into economic equilibrium and discontinued a system which practically amounted to an export bounty. Higher duties were imposed on certain cotton manufactures, such as denims and drills, and the growers in Queensland were materially assisted. Few primary industries can be expanded at the present time but the cotton-growing industry is an exception. It is essentially a small man’s industry. I have known cases in which farmers have gone into the cotton district absolutely penniless and, having obtained a grant of seed and a loan from the local municipality, have planted cotton between the tree stumps, with the result that they were able fo pick a heavy crop in the first year of their operations. From these humble beginnings some farmers have gone on to a large scale of production; others have run their cotton interests in conjunction with dairy farming. The industry has been very soundly established in Queensland and it has produced as much as 25,000 bales annually. The present annual ‘ production is approximately 15,000 bales, although approximately 35,000 bales are required for manufacturing purposes. As the scheme operates at present, the manufacturer is able to obtain his cotton at Liverpool parity prices. Therefore his costs are not high and the grower receives a payable price. Action by the Government as at first proposed would have undermined all of that constructive work. Even the present proposal I believe does not give the cottongrowers a great deal of confidence. This legislation is to last for only one year. These growers have their obligations, and, if they cannot look beyond a year’s tenure of this bounty, they may turn in other directions, or vacate some of the holdings. Therefore, although the Government has reversed its decision to cut down the bounty, which is all to the good, it says now that it will continue the bounty for one year during which period it will confer with the States about irrigation. The main cotton belt is around Biloela and the principal irrigation area is at Theodore. There is scope for immense development under irrigation and, as the result of the research work Carried out at the State research farm at, Biloela, many cottons grown now only in Egypt and China may be “grown in Australia. The conference between the Commonwealth and the States on this subject should be quickly called and the Government should make a pronouncement that this agreement, which has given to the cotton-growing industry stability it has never had previously, will be continued. If the industry were promised continuation of the bounty for another five years it could continue to expand - expand not only on the primary side but also on the secondary side. Some immense cotton spinning mills have been established in the cities, notably those of Davies, Coop and Company Limited and the. Bradford Cotton Spinning Mills. There will be further expansion if the Government will be reasonable and will not make the bounty operate for a period of such short, duration as one’ year.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- In supporting what other honorable members have said about the need, for the continuation of this bounty for five years, I must state that I fully realize that if that be done it should be on the condition that the industry is placed on a sound basis. It is quite clear from the report of the Tariff Board that in the past the cotton industry has not been efficiently and economically conducted. It would be impossible for that to be done in the course of one year, and for that reason I urge the Government to give serious consideration to a continuance of the bounty for five years. We are not justified in granting bounties to an industry unless it is economically and efficiently conducted.

Mr Prowse:

– And has the prospect of eventual success.

Mr JOLLY:

– There are great opportunities for the cotton industry because under present, conditions the industry is assured of a market for the whole of its product in the next few years.

Question resolved_in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and passed through its remaining stages -without amendment or debate.

page 2453

MOTOR VEHICLE ENGINE BOUNTY BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed from the 6th December (vide page 2212), on motion by. Mr. John Lawson -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- This is a bill to provide for the payment of a bounty on the production of motor vehicle engines built in Australia. In the opinion of the Opposition this measure is long overdue. We have consistently urged the Government over a number of years to be courageous enough to pass the necessary legislation to provide a bounty to assist in the establishment of a motor vehicle industry in Australia, but for one reason or another there has been hesitation. The Government made up its mind in 1936 to go on “with the development of the industry and, to use the words of the then Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties (Sir Henry Gullett) some sinister influence was brought to bear on the Government to force it to go cold on the scheme.

Mr PROWSE:

– In that case, the Tariff Board, must have been sinister.

Mr FORDE:

– I shall have something to say about the Tariff Board’s report. When the honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett) announced the Government’s policy in 1936, he said that motor chassis were being imported into Australia to the value of £4,500,000 a year, that the Government anticipated that satisfactory production of motor car engines and chassis would commence in Australia within two years and that within five years Australia would be producing 80 per cent, of its motor vehicle requirements. The honorable member said that he did not make that statement lightly. He had carried out exhaustive investigations and had the approval of the Cabinet. The honorable gentleman was later supported by the late Prime Minister, the Right Honorable J. A. Lyons, who said -

The arguments used against the manufacture in Australia of engines apply with equal force to tlie manufacture of motor car bodies and many accessories now manufactured here. They also apply with equal force to every other established Australian manufacturing industry which has not a market as great as that enjoyed by similar industries running in other countries.

We all heartily agreed with what Mr. Lyons said and we hoped that the Cabinet was fully cognizant of the great benefits “ that would accrue to Australia from the establishment of this industry. I give credit to the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) who said at the opening of McGrath’s Motor Works in Melbourne in 1936 that -

We will undoubtedly manufacture motor cars in Australia before long, and the Government is doing everything possible to hasten that.

That was over three years ago. I deplore the delay. There is no justification for the delay that has occurred. I believe, in-, the words of the honorable member for Henty, that influences were at work to prevent the Government from going on with the project. I believe that vested interests engaged in the distribution of imported motor vehicles in Australia, the Town and Country Union and other freetrade organizations were busily engaged in using influence with the Government. I believe that it does not suit overseas organizations like General MotorsHoldens Limited and the Ford company, which manufacture motor cars in the United States of America and Canada for a world-wide market, to go to expense of establishing factories in Australia for the manufacture of motor car engines. So long as this Parliament is prepared to allow these big overseas corporations to manufacture their products overseas and sell in Australia, there will be no motor car factories in Australia.

In May, 1936, the Government had made up its mind and it decided to impose a duty of .7d. per lb. on imported chassis, and as the result of that duty approximately £1,500,000 was collected for the purpose of assisting this industry. The tax amounted to about £5 on every chassis. That imposition was paid by every person who, after May, 1936, bought a new motor vehicle in Australia.

The purchasers were told that the tax was for the specific purpose of establishing the motor vehicle industry in Australia. I agreed with many honorable .gentlemen opposite who protested against the collection of the tax without steps being taken to establish the industry. It amounted to getting money under false pretences or to a breach of faith with the public. The scale of bounty originally provided was as follows: 1938 (or first year of production), £38; 1939 (or second year of production), £26; 1940 (or third year of production), £S; and 1941 (or fourth year of production), £3 15s.

The honorable member for Henty, when he introduced the plan in this House, estimated that production would commence with 5,000 units in 1938, increasing to 15,000 in 1939, 30,000 in 1940 and 40,000 in 1941. The year 1939 is almost over, yet not one locally manufactured motor vehicle bas been built. The honorable member also said -

If Australia entered on the production of motor engines at the rate of 35,000 a year, which the trade would absorb, direct employment would be afforded to 10,000, and the industry would support, directly and indirectly, 40,000.

Then the honorable member for Henty went out of the Cabinet and the whole question was temporarily shelved. One excuse for the shelving was the reference of the scheme to the Tariff Board. It would be interesting to know where the pressure that caused the project to be referred to the Tariff Board came from. Go down the list of witnesses and you will find that practically all of them were engaged in the importation of motor cars. They were not skilled in the manufacture of cars. If I had been chairman of the board I should have called the general manager of General Motors-Holdens Limited and the general manager of the Ford Motor Company of Australia Proprietary Limited and got their personal views about the ability of Australia to manufacture motor car engines.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– We can manufacture aeroplane engines.

Mr FORDE:

– Yes. We all know that the general manager of General MotorsHoldens Limited, Mr. Hartnett, is a director of the company which is manufacturing Wirraway aeroplanes at the Fisherman’s Bend factory. If we can manufacture complicated aeroplane engines we can certainly manufacture motor car engines. But we have been in the grip of huge vested interests. Mr. Hartnett and Mr. French, the general manager of the Ford Motor Company of Australia Proprietary Limited, are drawing huge emoluments for the work that they do in Australia. I. understand that they get £10,000 a year apiece. Under those considerations, their evidence before the Tariff Board would tend to throw cold water on the scheme, because it does not suit their employers that Australia should engage on car production. No honorable member can refute that, because those men are not free. They cannot speak their minds as witnesses before the Tariff Board or even in private conversations with departmental officials.

Mr Gregory:

– They both gave sworn evidence before the Tariff Board.

Mr FORDE:

– I shall not attempt to deal with the outbursts of honorable mem’bers who represent town and country leagues and trade organizations. They have opposed every proposal to establish secondary industries in Australia, notwithstanding that only in such industries can employment be found for the majority of the 40,000 boys who leave our schools every year. Their attitude in opposing the establishment of this industry is consistent; ever since they have been in this Parliament they have done their utmost to defeat proposals to set up in Australia industries which give employment to Australian workmen and make it possible for the Government to grant subsidies to primary producers. Without successful secondary industries how is a market to be found for the primary produce grown on our farms - a market upon which we shall have to depend more and more as the years pass ? Increased secondary production, with its resultant greater employment, is the only way to relieve the uncertainty of finding markets overseas. Australia is fortunate that, despite the outbursts of a small minority, the majority of the people realize the value of secondary industries. The party which is most influenced by trade interests had half of the scats in the Cabinet when Cabinet turned cold on the proposals enunciated by the honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett).

Mr Archie Cameron:

– It had only four seats out of fourteen.

Mr FORDE:

– If it did not have half of the seats, it had more than half of the say. According to the Prime Minister (Mr Menzies), who was in the Cabinet with them, Country party Ministers had two-thirds of the say. He resigned from the Cabinet as a protest, and when he formed his own Cabinet he did not admit Country party members to it. As to the merits of his action, I shall not speak at the moment; but it is well that from time to time we should take a retrospective glance, so that we may not forget the influences which caused the Government to go cold on this proposition. The honorable member for Henty said in this House -

There was not a detail in my speech in the way of fact that had not been agreed to by the Ministry. The whole of it had been submitted to and approved by the Prime Minister.

Again, on the 16th November, 1937, the honorable member for Henty, who, at the time, was very indignant because the Government about eighteen months after it had announced its policy was not prepared to do anything further, said -

If the Government will not establish this industry, then there is some sinister and mysterious influence stopping it and it is well for one to speak plainly on the subject. Nobody expects that any manufacturer in this country will respond to the so-called invitation by the Government to enter into an arrangement before the 31st March to manufacture cars. That was a sham offer and the Government knew it.

He spoke as one who had made a close study of this subject. He knew of the influences which had been brought to bear upon him and the Government to shelve the proposal. Those same influences have operated down the years whenever the establishment of a new industry has been proposed. We know the prejudice in favour of imported goods which still exists in thi3 country. Some honorable members trade on that prejudice.

I deplore the tendency of the Tariff Board to take a lead from the Govern^ ment in its desire to reduce the tariff protection afforded to Australian industries. The board has not faced up to this question properly. Evidently, the job was too big for it. It had the opportunity to advocate a bold Australian policy, but it had not sufficient courage to do so.

Mr McEwen:

– That is an unfair reflection on the board.

Mr FORDE:

– The Tariff Board took evidence from the vested distributing interests and importers of motor cars, and it paid too much heed to what they said. When the Government announced its policy in regard to the manufacture in Australia of aeroplane engines and aeroplanes, the representatives of overseas vested interests came to Australia in an endeavour to defeat the proposal. Only in the face of the most bitter opposition was that industry established in this country. These large overseas organizations, which make enormous profits, can afford to engage in spurious propaganda and send emissaries to Australia or engage the best local brains obtainable to defeat any proposal to establish secondary industries of this kind. But if we place the interests of Australia first, we shall not be deterred from going forward. I speak for the Opposition when I say that a. Labour Government would not tolerate any unfair competition or propaganda by importing interests which would exploit the Australian market. A Labour government would take whatever steps it thought necessary to foster the manufacture of motor cars in Australia, and would put these vested interests in their right place.

The bill provides that there shall be a restriction of the horse-power of engines in respect of which the bounty shall be paid. I should like to know what caused the Government to fix that limit at 15 horse-power. I realize that there is something to be said for encouraging the manufacture of motor engines which could be used for military purposes and that for units of about the horse-power of a Ford or Chevrolet car there would be a greater demand than for cars of lower horse-power. Moreover, the smaller vehicles would enter more into competition with low-powered English caro. Furthermore, with the rising cost of petrol and other costs, there is a growing demand for light cars of low power. I should like the Minister to give an assurance that, should a reputable company indicate its preparedness to manufacture motor car engines of less than 15 horsepower, its proposal would be given favorable consideration.

Clause 6 provides that not less than two-thirds of the paid-up capital of any company to which the bounty shall be payable, shall be contributed by British subjects who are resident in Australia or in a Territory under the control of the Commonwealth. I am glad that the Government has had the courage to stipulate that at least two-thirds of the capital shall be Australian, but I am not satisfied that it has gone far, enough. Although I should like the whole of the capital to be subscribed by Australians, I should be satisfied if the clause were amended to make it necessary that three-fourths of it should be so subscribed. Indeed, I foreshadow an amendment to that effect when the bill reaches the committee stage. Wo should endeavour to keep this industry as Australian as we can, particularly as it is intended to subsidize it up to £600,000 per annum. I do not wish some overseas corporation to subscribe a large proportion of the capital, and appoint “ dummy “ directors in. order to kill the industry before it has been properly established.

The bill provides that in respect of the first 20,000 engine units, a bounty of £30 shall be paid; that in respect of the next 20,000 units, the bounty shall bo £25; and for the next 20,000 units, £20. I should like the Minister to say whether each of, say three factories, manufacturing motor car engines, would receive the bounty on that basis. Steps must be taken to ensure that the industry, when established, will be under the control of Australians and not dominated by big overseas manufacturers who may be tempted to destroy it in their own interests. The Government should also exercise some control over “ gogetting” share salesmen, who may endeavour to persuade people to invest money in companies which are not likely to make a success of the manufacture of motor car engines. I notice that the bill provides that the Governor-General must be convinced that the applicant for the bounty can manufacture up to 8,000 units per annum.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Would the honorable member support the licensing of m manufacturers ?

Mr. -FORDE.- That is a matter which the Minister should discuss with the State Governments. Possibly, there should be some licensing of manufacturers in order to prevent the mushroom growth of a number of small enterprises which are not capable of handling such business, but I do not want this industry to get into the hands of a monopoly. My purpose is to protect people who may be induced to invest money in companies which have no prospect of success. I wish to ensure that people will invest money only with bona fide companies which are competent to undertake the manufacture of engine units. I take it that, under the national emergency regulations, some control will be exercised over the investment of capital in order to see that the public is not exploited.

Sitting suspended from 12.^5 to 2.15 p.m.

Mr FORDE:

– This matter must be handled with fairness by the Government so as not to inflict hardship on small manufacturers. However, I have known instances in which a proposition of this kind has been killed in its initial stages by getting into the hands of people who were more anxious to make money out of share flotations than they were to manufacture goods. I understand that the Government has appointed an investment board to which all applications for permission to float companies during the war must be referred. If the board is impartial and capable it should be able to obviate any possibility of the public being taken down by unscrupulous promoters.

Once this industry is established it will, I believe, result in a great deal of work being distributed among existing manufacturers. I take it that the position here will be similar to that in Great Britain and the United States of America, where each of the big car-manufacturing firms has been responsible for the setting up of numerous contingent industries which specialize in the manufacture of component parts such as radiators, gears, springs, carburettors, spark plugs, lamps and wheels. In Australia, even at the present time, many engineering shops receive contracts from the big body builders for the manufacture of parts. There are already in Australia firms carrying on the manufacture of spark plugs, batteries and springs, so that the firm which manufactures the engines need not itself engage in the manufacture of all parts of the car. Thus, additional employment will be provided for skilled, artisans. The establishment of the industry in Australia will also lead to the production in this coun-try of steel alloys, none of which are made here at the present time. This will also stimulate employment.

I endorse the provision in the bill that the bounty is to be paid on the basis of engine units consisting of 90 per cent. Australian material, the bounty to be reduced if less than that proportion of Australian material is used.

The act is to come into operation when the Government is satisfied that there is iu existence a completely equipped factory capable of manufacturing 8,000 engine units n year. I should like to know from the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) whether he has yet received any intimation from reputable companies with a preponderance of Australian capital, that they will be able to manufacture complete engine units efficiently and economically. During the last two years statements on this subject have been made by Ministers from time to time, but the House was not convinced that definite propositions had been put forward. I d6 not want to see this enterprise get into the hands of a hig monopoly, or a firm engaged in importing cars from overseas. I want it to be an Australian enterprise, and that is why I propose to move an amendment that 75 per cent, of the capital must be subscribed within Australia.

I have no doubt that there will be a great “deal of opposition to this bounty proposal. The establishment of the industry will be fought as bitterly as was the establishment of any of the big secondary industries in this country. In other countries, also, tremendous opposition was encountered when it was sought to establish a motor car manufacturing industry. It was encountered in Italy, but the Italian Government went right ahead, and manufacturers there were able to produce 42,000 motor car engines in 1937, and production has increased substantially since then. The Italian Government made up its mind to develop the industry, and to that end it provided effective protection so as to keep out foreign manufactured motor car engines. If Australia had been prepared to take that definite stand in 1936, would the Ford Motor Company of Canada have been able to continue sending to Australia motor car engines manufactured iu Canada.; would General Motors have , continued to manufacture engines and chassis in the United States of America for sale on the Australian market? What has been the experience in Japan? In 1935, only 3,000 engine units were produced there. The numbers increased to 6,200 in 1936, to 15,000 in 1937, and to 60,000 in 1938. The Japanese Government, in order to encourage the purchase of locally-manufactured motor cars, decided to limit the number of foreign cars imported from overseas. The Japanese Government was not timid. What has been done for the motor car industry in Italy and Japan, Russia and Germany, could also be done in Australia. The German Government was not half-hearted. It ordered that all motor cars for use in Germany must be manufactured in German factories. The result was a phenomenal expansion of production, a tremendously increased demand for skilled artisans, and more opportunities for boys to be trained in the engineering trade.

I am glad that the Government has, in clause 12 of the bill, inserted provisions dealing with rates of wages and conditions of employment. This was missing from the Motor Industry Bounty Bill of 1938, which provided a bounty on the manufacture of motor car radiators. The labour conditions were included in the Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act 1919, the Iron and Steel Bounty Act 1932, the Wine Export Bounty Act 1934, and the Raw Cotton Bounty Act 1934. In those acts, it was provided that the bounty should be withheld if, in the opinion of the Minister, Arbitration Court conditions and wages were not being observed in the industry concerned. When the present Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) was Attorney-General, his attitude for some time was that the labour provision should be deleted from bounty legislation because, in his opinion, it was unconstitutional. It was contended by the Opposition, however, that the responsibility should be placed on the manufacturers to prove that the provision was unconstitutional.

I am. glad to have the assurance of the Minister that the Government is satisfied that motor car engines and chassis can be produced in A.ustralia economically, and without additional cost to the public. That is important. I take it that the statement was made after the position had been carefully investigated by sonic of the most competent officers in bis department. It should be sufficient answer to the argument of those who believe that we should buy the products of cheap-labour countries, so that we might get the goods for less. Our experience has been that we do not, in fact, get the goods more cheaply by doing that. By the time distributing costs have been added, the price of imported goods is higher in countries such as New Zealand and South Africa, where there is no local manufacturing industry, than here in Australia. I have been assured by competent engineers, who have made a success of this work in other countries, that there can be manufactured in Australia a car in the lower-pricerange, such as the Plymouth, the Chevrolet, or the Ford, at a lower price than is paid to-day for those cars.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– The Australian car must sell cheaper than the imported cars, or it will not be sold at all.

Mr FORDE:

-We may be assured that there will be much propaganda by the representatives of overseas manufacturers in an endeavour to prejudice the public against Australian cars. There will be sales talks over the radio, by personal canvass, and by means of newspaper advertisements.We may be assured, therefore, that the Australian car will be sold more cheaply than its competitors if there is to be a market for it at all. I am, however, convinced that the Australian car, when manufactured, will stand up to all tests, and will satisfy the public.

The Labour party supports this bill, believing that, if the measure is administered sympathetically in the public interest, it will give a great stimulus to high-precision engineering industries in this country, and will provide increased employment for skilled and semi-skilled artisans. It will, moreover, provide additional opportunities for the employment of boys in the engineering trade. We deplore the fact that there has been an unreasonable delay since the proposal was first announced in 1936 by the then Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties. Certain overseas influences have been exerted to prejudice not only honorablbe members of this Parliament, but also sub sidiary manufacturers associated with the motor trade in Australia, against this proposal. These influences have also been used as a. propagandist agency to try to prevent the Government from introducing this bill. The Labour party will take a watchful interest in the development of this industry and will observe any tactics adopted by importing interests to thwart the efforts now being made to establish the industry on an efficient and a successful basis. When the Labour party again returns to office it will take whatever steps are necessary to give further encouragement to the industry, to ensure its success and to endeavour to provide employment for the 10,000 trained and semi-trained artisans who were originally expected to obtain employment in it. Whilst the Labour party will support the bill, it will also vote for the amendment that I have indicated to the effect that before the bounty shall be payable it must be demonstrated that 75 per cent. of the capital invested is of Australian origin.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Price) adjourned.

page 2459

AIR FORCE BILL 1939

Second Reading

Mr HOLT:
Acting Minister for Air · Fawkner · UAP

.- I move-

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is an urgent measure that proposes to establish a code of law for the Air Force which will be comparable to the code of law at present in force in respect of the Navy and Army and which will be similar in practically every respect to the code of law operating in respect of the Air Force, not only of Great Britain, but also of other self-governing dominions of the Empire. The bill will apply our own Defence Act to the Royal Australian Air Force. To the degree that any provision of the Imperial act is inconsistent with the provisions of our Defence Act, the latter will prevail. The bill lays down that, the conditions now prevailing in respect of the Air Force shall be continued.

Mr Brennan:

– Surely the Acting Minister does not expect the bill to be passed to-day?

Mr HOLT:

– I have discussed the measure with the honorable member for

Bourke (Mr. Blackburn), who raised a point concerning enlistments, which involves section 60, Part IV. and also Part XII. of our Defence Act. Section 60 deals with the calling up of reserves in time of war, and Part XII. deals with compulsory military service. In consequence of my conference with the honorable member for Bourke, I propose at the committee stage to move an amendment on behalf of the Government to provide that no person called up under section 60 shall be liable to serve in the Air Force unless he voluntarily consents to do so, and that no person called up under Part XII. shall be liable to serve in the Air Force unless he consents to do so and, if he be between the ages of fourteen and eighteen years, unless he first obtains the consent of his parents or guardians. I understand that this amendment is acceptable to the honorable member.

The Air Force Act 1923, which at present applies to the Air Force, was passed in the closing period of a session, and was intended to have only temporary application. No effort was made at that time to evolve a complete code, as it was expected that the measure would he amended in the following session. However, that act still remains in force. The result has been that, in order to administer the Air Force, to which we have applied the relevant provisions of the British act, we have had to proceed by way of regulation. It was pointed out by a committee of honorable senators that this practice was undesirable, and that the same conditions should apply to the administration of the Air Force as now apply to the Navy or the Army. It has also been suggested in other quarters that it is doubtful whether we could establish the validity of certain regulations that have been made under the provisions of the principal act. For these reasons this bill is being introduced. No material change is being made in the existing situation- and the measure will definitely be beneficial in its effect to members of the Air Force. I do not think that honorable members will find much difficulty in realizing the advantages in passing the bill. This action becomes more necessary in view of our agreement to co-operate with Great Britain and other dominions in the Empire Air Training Scheme. There are in existence, and applicable to the

Air Force administration, a number of publications issued by the Royal Air Force authorities, of which the Manual of Air Force Law is the most important. These are being used extensively as textbooks for the guidance of officers and men, not only in our Air Force, but also in the air forces of the other dominions. It may be said that this bill represents an endeavour to bring our Air “Force into line with those of the other dominions.

At the committee stage I shall be glad to explain in detail any provision concerning the import of which honorable members are in doubt. The bill is urgently required for the proper administration of the Air Force, particularly in view of our participation in the Empire training scheme.

Mr Brennan:

– But surely, I ask again, the Minister does not expect us to pass this bill within an hour of our going into recess ?

Mr HOLT:

– The fact that the recess is so close makes the passage of the bill all the more necessary.

Mr Beasley:

– This matter must have been urgent when Parliament assembled last month and the bill should have been introduced earlier.

Mr HOLT:

– I commend the bill to honorable members and assure them that all necessary safeguards have been provided. “We are not doing anything that is out of harmony with the administration of the air forces of Great Britain and the other dominions. Ireland has quite recently adopted similar provisions to these. In fact this bill is almost identical with the Irish measure.

Mr Prowse:

– In short the purpose of the measure is to place our Air Force in uniformity with the Navy and the Army ?

Mr HOLT:

– Yes; and with the other air forces of Great Britain and the other dominions.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– The weakness of the Acting Minister’s case is that our Navy and Army are not on exactly the same basis as the British navy and army.

Mr HOLT:

– But our Defence Acf will still apply to the Air Force. I have already pointed out that if any of the provisions of the British act are inconsistent with any of the provisions of our act, our act shall apply.

Mr White:

– All of the safeguards of our Defence Act will be preserved.

Mr HOLT:

– Yes. I have already pointed out that an amendment is to be moved at an appropriate stage in respect of section 60 and Part XII. of the Defence Act dealing with cadets who may be called up under our universal training scheme.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– This is a man’s war, not a war for youngsters.

Mr HOLT:

– That is so; but the bill is not intended to have application only to the immediate future. It may be that young fellows who are called up for military training may desire to transfer to a suitable position in the Air Force. In Great Britain, for instance, ground personnel apprentices are received about the age of sixteen years. If such a position became vacant in our Air Force after the passage of this bill as it is proposed to amend it, any cadet applying for it would need to obtain the consent of his parents or guardian. I commend the bill to the House and hope that it will be given a speedy passage.

Mr BLACKBURN:
Bourke

.- Our Air Force Act 1923 provides that the Defence Act and the appropriate regulations thereunder shall apply to the Air Force. That has had the curious result that compulsion may even now be applied to the Air Force. Section 60 of Part IV., of the Defence Act, as the Acting Minister for Air (Mr. Holt) has said, relates to a time of war and Part XIV. applies to compulsory training. This bill if amended as suggested by the Acting Minister will be an improvement on the existing law, because it will provide that action which may now be taken by regulation will then be taken under legislation. It is desirable that the legislature should itself take responsibility for these provisions instead of allowing them to be worked out by the Executive, particularly as they may involve important principles affecting the liberty of the people. Section 88 of the Defence Act applies to the military and naval forces, subject to the modifications as set out in the act. The Air Force Act extends that section to apply to the Air Force, subject to the qualifications set out in the Defence Act. When this bill was introduced yesterday morning, I obtained a copy from the Clerk of Papers, and then saw the Minister about it. The point I was very much concerned about was that I wanted to have it placed beyond doubt that no person could be compelled to serve in the Air Force, or to undergo training in the Air Force. If we do not adopt this measure to-day, we shall be in danger of having men conscripted for service in the Air Force, and of having boys compulsorily trained in it.

Mr Holt:

– That is the present possibility.

Mr BLACKBURN:

– That is so, and that could be done by regulation under the Air Force Act 1923. I discussed the matter with the Minister, and we worked out the amendment which he proposes to submit at the committee stage.

Mr Beasley:

– Would the amendment prevent the Government from taking the necessary action to compel compulsory service and training in the Air Force under its national security powers?

Mr BLACKBURN:

– The _ National Security Act contains a provision that no regulation made under the act can create new obligations or extend any existing obligations for compulsory service or training. Notwithstanding that, it could be done under the regulationmaking power given by the Air Force Act 1923. Under that act, there is power to apply to the Air Force all of the provisions of the Defence Act with such modifications as the Governor-General may think fit. That means that, section 4 of the Defence Act could be applied to the Air Force, and that men could be compelled to serve in the Air Force, an*!, further, that Part XII. of the Defence Act could bc applied to the Air Force and that boys could be compulsorily trained in it. If the amendment which the Minister proposes to move in committee is accepted, it will mean that there will be no risk in future of men being compelled to serve in the Air Force or of boys-being compulsorily trained in the Air Force. This bill sets down in black and white, with the authority of Parliament, the powers which at present are vested in the Governor-General, and which may be exercised by him by way of regulation. it is highly desirable that if power is to be exercised, it should be exercised under the direct authority of this Parliament, and not under the authority of regulations made by the Governor-General. It seems to me to be desirable that there should be a definite provision that we cannot have compulsion for the Air Force. It is absurd to think that we should have compulsion for the Air Force, yet as the act now stands, it would be possible to say to persons compelled to undergo compulsory training : “ You must be trained in the Air Force whether you like it or not “. The amendment to be submitted to the committee will get rid of that possibility. I regard the proposal made by the Government as a step in the direction of giving greater liberty and greater security to the people of this country. It is regrettable that such important measures as this should be brought down so late ; but I think we will be better off if this measure is passed than we are at present. At present, the Government has the widest power to apply any section of the Defence Act it likes to the Air Force; it ‘could apply compulsory service for men or compulsory training for lads in the Air Force. If this bill goes through to-day with the amendment which the Minister will propose, it will not be possible to apply compulsory service or compulsory training to the Air Force or to compel any one to serve or to be trained in the Air Force unless he voluntarily consents to do so.

Mr THORBY:
Calare

.- In the first place, may I say that I am surprised that the Acting Minister for Air (Mr. Holt) should introduce a bill containing such a lengthy list of amendments of the Defence Act and Air Force Act in the dying hours of these sittings. Acting under instructions from my leader, I approached the Minister’s office late last night in an endeavour to get some facts relating to this bill, realizing that we were nearing the end of the sittings, and that very little time would be left for its discussion. I was assured that this was only a minor bill.

Mr Holt:

– Not by me.

Mr THORBY:

– I did not say that the honorable gentleman gave me that assurance; I know that, at the time I visited his office, he was engaged with the War

Cabinet. I am surprised, however, on receiving this bill for the first time a few minutes ago, to find that it proposes extensive amendments of the Air Force Act and the Defence Act.

Mr Holt:

– The ‘amendments to be made in the Defence Act are purely consequential.

Mr THORBY:

– That may be so. Honorable members are handed this bill containing two pages of what are described as formal and consequential amendments. Is it reasonable that the Government should hold back this bill until the last few minutes of the sittings? Apparently, it is the intention of the Government to adjourn the House at 4 o’clock this afternoon.

Mr Beasley:

– There is no chance of that.

Mr THORBY:

– I realize that it may not be possible to do so. However, we are called upon to accept the verbal assurance of the Minister that the amendments contained in this bill are purely formal and consequential. As a former Minister for Defence, with experience of the administration of the Air Force Act and the Defence Act, I admit quite candidly that I do not know what this bill means, except for the assurance given by the Minister. It is most unfair that we should be asked in the midst of war to amend these acts at such extremely short notice. It would take at least two hours for any honorable member to read these amendments in conjunction with .the appropriate sections of the principal acts. I shall not oppose the bill, but I shall throw full responsibility on the shoulders of the Minister for whatever is in it, and, if necessary, I shall take any steps to prevent these amendments being made if, on more mature reflection during the committee stage, I consider them to be wrong. I shall examine the bill carefully, clause by clause, in order to satisfy myself that it is what the Minister says it is, purely a harmless hill, designed to bring our Australian acts into line with the Imperial acts.

Mr Holt:

– That is all the bill is intended to do.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Brennan) adjourned.

page 2463

MOTOR VEHICLE ENGINE BOUNTY BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed from page 2459, on motion by Mr. John Lawson) -

That thu bill be now read a second time.

Mr PRICE:
Boothby.

.- 1 listened with a great deal of interest to the debate on this important matter. 1 regret that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde), who gave general support to the bill, was not generous enough to compliment the Government on having introduced it.

Mr Forde:

– I thought there had been too much delay in bringing it down to do so.

Mr PRICE:

– I agree with the honorable member that the bill is long overdue. 1 regret that the Tariff Board did not bring down a favorable report when it first investigated this proposal. For the last five years I have urged consistently in this House that everything possible should be done to encourage the manufacture of complete motor cars in Australia. Therefore, I am very pleased that at last a measure designed for that purpose has been introduced. My only criticism of the bill is that it does not go far enough; provision should have been made for the payment of a bounty in respect of engines of lower horse-power. The improvement of the performance of engines of low horse-power, combined with the high cost of petrol, have tremendously increased the popularity of the light car. The bill provides for a bounty of £30 a unit for the first 20,000 engines produced ; £25 a unit for the second 20,000; and £20 a unit for the third 20,000. Bounty payments in any one year will not exceed £600,000. It is gratifying that the bill should encourage the development of Australian secondary industries and the use of Australian materials. It presents a golden opportunity in that connexion. The bounty will be paid in respect of engines containing 90 per cent, of Australian material. I suppose that 90 per rent. is stipulated because it would not He. possible to obtain all of the materials in this country. It is estimated that the 60,000 engine units to which the bounty will apply will represent a value of £1. 500,000. Some time ago this Parlia ment passed a measure providing for a tax of .7d. in the £1 on the value of imported motor car chassis, and it is estimated that that tax will return £1,400,000. The Government has presented a bold front in introducing this bill and I am pleased that it has done so. This attempt to establish a new industry in Australia is a step in the rightdirection. I understand that the Government has received a number of applications from firms wishing to manufacture motor car engines. The applicants are patriotic and I ask the Government to make their names available at an early date. There is a need in Australia to-day for low-powered motor cars that can be placed on the market at a price within the reach of most people. In the United States of America and in many other countries a motor car is owned by almost every second person in the community. I hope that this project will result in lowering the cost of motor vehicles in Australia. Many people say that Australian industries cannot produce a cheap job and a good job, but I believe that they can do so; certainly they should be given an opportunity to prove their ability to do so. This bill will provide a fillip to secondary industries. 1 am in favour of helping secondary production in everyway possible. I am, of course, interested in primary production, but I believe that Australia is admirably suited to the establishment of secondary industries, and that the Government should do everything possible to encourage manufacturers. Many secondary industries have been fostered and developed in Australia to the material benefit of the whole country. I am glad that the bill contains a provision governing rates of wages and conditions of employment in the industry. If we are to protect any particular industry we should also protect the employees engaged in it. The. standard rates of wages and conditions of employment in this new industry will be prescribed by awards. I support the bill and express the hope that it will have a speedy passage through this Parliament.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– If there has been any sinister influence at work in connexion with the proposed establishment of a motor-engine industry in Australia, it has not been on the part of these who have endeavoured to have it founded on a secure financial basis and approved of after proper inquiry. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) would have found himself in a tight corner had he said outside this chamber some of the things that he said before the luncheon adjournment to-day. He stated that two men whom he named, representatives of big firms, had given evidence before the Tariff Board which was not accurate and which had been prompted by private interest. That amounted to the bald statement that those two men were guilty of the crime of perjury.

Mr Forde:

– The honorable gentleman is misrepresenting my statement. I said that it was useless to call upon men receiving salaries of £10,000 a year from overseas firms to say whether or not an industry should be established in Australia, when that industry would operate to the detriment of the firms in the United States of America and elsewhere which they represented.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– The honorable gentleman will have to make two or three speeches to explain away some of the statements that he made earlier today. He said that if certain men had given their evidence as private persons, and not as representatives of important firms connected with influential overseas interests, their statements would have been of a different character.

Mr Beasley:

– The Deputy Leader of the Opposition said that these men were not permitted to express what was in their minds.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– Whatever they said was spoken on oath. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition virtually accused those persons of committing perjury. The honorable gentleman will regret that before long.

The Government was very ill-advised to bring a bill of this description before Parliament at such a late stage of the sittings. The speech of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) appears to members of the Country party to be an attempt to whitewash the former Minister “in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties (Sir Henry Gullett). This thing arose out of one of the greatest crimes against primary export industries that has ever been committed in this country - the trade diversion policy. When this matter came up last year, members of the Country party and others were successful in forcing the question before the Tariff Board for inquiry. The Tariff Board condemned the very proposal which the Government is now submitting. It condemned the proposal on defence grounds which were among the reasons urged by the Minister in favour of the establishment of the industry. We do not know what the Tariff Board would say to-day, because a completely new set of circumstances has arisen, but, : if ever any justification existed for a. review and reconsideration of the position before committing the taxpayers of Australia to a venture of this kind, that justification exists to-da,y. This Government, which is obviouslyhandling a full-time job, has never had a chance, either as a full Cabinet or as an economic Cabinet, to inquire into the whys and wherefores of this new proposal. Therefore, it should refer the project to the strictly impartial outside body which was established for the guidance of this Parliament and which was responsible for the condemnatory report of last year. The Country party offers no opposition to the establishment of a motor engine industry in this country, if it can be justified. One of the questions that must be considered is the ever-increasing cost of transport. If we venture now into some new enterprise which may result in heavily increased costs of motor cars, we must be prepared to answer for the consequences to the taxpayers whom we represent. The Parliament has held long sittings lately, and a reason for not continuing with the measure now is that honorable members are not in a proper condition to go carefully into its pros and cons at this juncture. The whole question should be referred back to the Tariff Board, which said quite definitely last year that there were very grave doubts as to whether this industry could be economically established. The Minister gave us very little information in his speech about what the Government had in mind. Vague rumours are current on the question of whether a big Australian company is prepared to take part in this venture, but I do not know if there is any truth in them. The Minister did not take Parliament into his confidence. One point which should be inquired into is the site to be set aside for this industry should the Government continue with the bill. Honorable members of the Country party, as representatives of rural constituencies, contend that if a secondary industry is to be established, we must get away from the mad policy of centralization which has resulted in the concentration of unduly large populations in the capital cities of several of our States. If the Parliament does not take a hand and prevent the Government from going ahead, the odds are about a million pounds to a peanut that the industry will be established in Melbourne or .Sydney. Therefore, it is necessary that the temper of the House on this question should be made very plain to the Government. I have many other points in mind, but at this stage I shall content myself with submitting the amendment that I have prepared. I move - flint sill words lifter “That” bt- omitted with n view to insert in lieu thereof thu words, “ thu bill be deferred and the proposals be submitted to thu Tariff Board for consideration nml report in the light of present world conditions

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- The Government has been collecting a tax on imported motor chassis for three years, and one merit of this bill is that it should settle the question of whether the motor car engine building industry is to go on oi whether that tax is to be discontinued. We have a very useful motor-body building industry in Australia, but I doubt whether it has been worth what -the people have had to pay for it. In view of the part-monopoly that now exists in the motor car body section of the motor industry, we are naturally chary of developing a complete monopoly. I say “ monopoly “ because there is not sufficient market in this country for more than one concern to engage in this industry. Competition would be out of question. Our experience is that when companies get into a profitable busi ness they exploit the public. The best example of that is the motor bodybuilding industry. The large motor bodybuilding firms in this country charge high prices for their ‘ output and the result is that members of the public have to pay exceptionally high prices for their motor cars. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) had a lot to say about the profiteering of oversea concerns engaged in the export of motor car chassis to Australia, but the profiteering is at the Australian end. It occurs in the manufacture of the bodies, because the chassis arrive in Australia at reasonable prices. I am afraid that if an enterprise for the complete manufacture of motor vehicles in Australia is set up, the profiteering will be greater, because the manufacturers will have the complete vehicle instead of only the body on which to inflate charges. The large Australian motor body-building manufacturers have a. strong grip on the trade and they have not been fair to the smaller manufacturers. When this Parliament was induced some time ago to place high duties on fabricated parts, such as panels, the assurance was given to the Tariff Board by the manufacturers that they would supply panels to the smaller factories on reasonable terms. They promised that they would not squeeze the small man out of the trade. They promised that they would supply their small competitors at cheaper prices than the prices of imported panels. They have not done so. To give an example, an efficient concern in my own State, which, before the rise of duties, had a large business, applied to General Motors-Holdens Limited for a quote for what is called the “ cab “ of commercial vehicles. The quote was £28 ii cab and the extra costs for carriage and assembly would have brought that cost to £40 a unit. The retail price that the manufacturer was quoting was £31 per unit, including sales tax, and to agents and fleet-owners, people who bought a considerable number of vehicles, there was a substantial discount. It is clear that the quote of £28 to the Western Australian company was not a bona fide quote. It was intended to squeeze that company out of business, and, to a considerable degree, it had that effect. The Western Australian company then got another quote from another company in

South Australia. That company, which was much more reasonable, agreed to supply 30 bodies for a start. It had supplied ten bodies when it cancelled the contract. It is quite clear, in the circumstances, that the big companies, having got hold of the business, have no consideration for the smaller companies. To give honorable members a more recent example, the Defence Department recently decided to acquire 87 motor vehicles for use in Western Australia, and, without giving opportunity to anybody else to tender, the department gave the order to the two main Australian companies. I must say in fairness to it that the Ford company sent the parts to Western Australia for assembly. That required a small expenditure of labour in Western Australia at a cost of £3 or £4 a body. The other company, however, assembled the vehicles in an eastern State, working overtime to do so, and sent them to Western Australia at a freight cost which was much higher than would have been the case had the vehicles been sent in the unassembled state. I am naturally opposed to the creation of any monopoly which will prolong that sort of thing.

Mr. HOLLOWAY (Melbourne. Ports) [3.18 1 . - I hope that the House will reject the amendment moved by the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron). We have been waiting long enough for this industry. It has been, reported upon by the Tariff Board and has been considered by this House several times. Surely this is the right time to pass this legislation to enable us to get on with the job of manufacturing our own motor vehicles. Australian industry - employers and employees - has been awaiting anxiously for four or five years the passage of this legislation, and I hope that the Leader of the Country party will not persist in his attitude, because, if his amendment were carried, there would be further delay. This is one of the most popular pieces of legislation that could ever be introduced into this Parliament. Anybody who is aware of the pulse of the people outside must know that. I do not agree that there’ is insufficient wisdom in this House, to evolve seme method to stop exploitation if exploitation should be attempted. There never was a time when it was more necessary to introduce a new industry into Australia than now. After the war, the organization which has been built up in the Defence Department, will be reduced and it will be necessary to have some industry of this sort to absorb those who will lose their employment, particularly engineers, who are now engaged in the munitions plants and on the manufacture of aeroplanes.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- At last we approach consummation of the plans for the complete manufacture of motor vehicles in this country. I thank the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) for his reference to the occasion in 1936 when I predicted that Ibis would happen. The proposal has experienced adversity and vicissitudes - a long Tariff Board inquiry and many other inquiries - and we can thank the Government that it has now come to fruition. The Government has often reiterated that it would proceed with the plan and this bill is the result. Had it not done so, it would have been worthy of severe censure. The amendment moved by the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) seeks a further inquiry into this matter by the Tariff Board. The Tariff Board’s last report on the subject was made in 1937. Surely we have waited long enough.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– That report condemned the proposal.

Mr WHITE:

– Not completely.

Mr McEwen:

– The honorable member when he was Minister for Trade and Customs did not mind asking the Tariff Board to make another report on the matter.

Mr WHITE:

– No. But do not imagine that a government or a Minister slavishly follows the advice of the Tariff Board. Very definitely, not! This House has just passed a cotton bounty bill. That bounty was the result of composite effort. The Tariff Board reported on the cotton industry, and. as_ Minister for Trade and Customs, I was not entirely satisfied with its report. Accordingly, I supplemented the Tariff Board’s report with a departmental inquiry. The result of those two inquiries was that a scheme was introduced for the assistance of the cotton-growing industry with most satisfactory results. The same preliminaries took place before the f hipbuilding industry was assisted. T shall read the reference in respect of the motor car industry that was made to the Tariff Board -

The heat means of giving effect to the Government’s policy of establishing in Australia the manufacture of engines and chassis of motor vehicles.

There is a long summary in the. report, but these two paragraphs give the sense of what the Tariff Board thought -

The evidence before it convinces the board that it would be unwise at present to encourage or enforce the manufacture of the complete motor vehicle in Australia.

The evidence suggests that some chassis parts could be manufactured locally without heavy additional cost. The board has, however, not sufficient information to enable such parts to be identified.

That has a bearing on what the honorable member for Capricornia said. The honorable member in no way maligned the gentlemen who gave evidence before the Tariff Board. As I pointed out in a subsequent message to the board, the board had pointed out the disadvantages of the industry, whereas the request was that it should report on means whereby the industry could be established.

Mr Forde:

– -Hear, hear! I had no desire to cast any reflection on individuals personally. What I said was that they got £10,000 a year from oversea employers and that their interests thereby were linked with the interests of their employers, and that, that being so, they could not give to the Tariff Board their own ideas as to the possibility of establishing a complete motor vehicle in this country.

Mr WHITE:

– Yes. I tried to follow the. honorable gentleman and that was the impression I gained from his remarks. The Ford company and General MotorsHoldens Limited intimated generally that they were not interested. I investigated the matter further when I was in Great Britain last year. I interviewed the principal motor-car manufacturers there, but most of them gave reasons for not undertaking manufacture in Australia. Some said that they preferred to manufacture in England and export to Australia,; others said that an Australian business would be too far away from England for proper control, whilst others declared that they feared American competition. Still others gave different reasons. T make that explana tion in order to show that there is no necessity for the Government to adhere slavishly to any report from tha Tariff Board. That body recommended a step-by-step development. It recommended, first, the manufacture of motor car radiators on a bounty-cum-duty basis, but the House preferred the bounty basis. Honorable members who know that a portion of the board’s recommendation has been followed now object to the Government completing the process and starting this immense industry. In the first paragraph of its report the Tariff Board said, “It would be unwise at present”. Surely, the fact that this country is at war has changed the economic outlook. Australia needs to be more self-reliant. About 80 per cent, of every motor car in this country is of Australian origin, and now is the opportunity to bridge the narrow gap which would enable us to make complete cars. The requirement that the bulk of the capital shall be provided by Australians is a guarantee that the industry will be conserved to Australians as far as possible. Whether or not the bounty will be sufficient to encourage local manufacture remains to be seen, but I hope that two or three companies, preferably not those in the big group, will accept the invitation to commence manufacture in Australia so that monopoly may not arise. The recognition by the Government of the need to establish this industry is somewhat belated, but it is good to see that the project has at last been approved, and a bill introduced to give effect to it.

Mr NOCK:
Riverina

.- The Government is ill advised to bring forward this proposal merely on its own presumption that the T a riff Board’s report is out of date. That report is fairly recent, although it does not cover the present economic condition resulting from the war. The amendment which the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) has moved is wise, for it will relieve the Government of the responsibility for any action which it may take. I agree that, it is possible that, upon further investigating the ma tter in the light of existing conditions, the Tariff Board will submit a different report. I am not. against the establishment of this industry in Australia. On the contrary, I should be glad to see it established, if it can be done economically. Should the Tariff Board indicate any change of opinion, the hands of the Government would be strengthened. The manufacture of complete motor cars in Australia would result in the loss of the revenue which the Government now obtains from the duty on imported motor cars.

Mr White:

– It would save £5,000,000 in credits which now go out of Australia.

Mr NOCK:

– That loss would be in addition to the payment of £30 in respect of each unit manufactured in Australia which would be paid to Australian manufacturers. We must look into the economics of this subject, because, after all, it is a business proposition. It is certain that the price of motor cars from overseas will be greater next year than now, and that fact might justify the establishment of this industry; but I prefer that the Tariff Board should investigate the position, and give to us further information before we commit Australia to this industry and the extra hurden which it will entail.

Mr PROWSE:
Forrest

– I cannot understand why honorable members should be afraid of an investigation into the proposal that is now before the House. Once this industry is started in Australia it will be most difficult to get rid of it, however unsuccessful it may be That is the only point on which an inquiry should be made. No sane person would commence the erection of a building without first obtaining from an architect plans and advice as to its completion. The Government proposes to establish a new industry in Australia.

Mr Holloway:

– Is the honorable member afraid of it because it is new?

Mr PROWSE:

– The honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett), when Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties, would have foisted, this industry upon the country without an inquiry by the Tariff Board. However, the proposal was submitted to that body, which reported against it. There is nothing unreasonable in the present attitude of the Country party. We do not ask that the existing report of the. Tariff Board be accepted, because we admit that, on further investigation, *he board may report differently.

I remind the Government and its supporters that at the last election there was an understanding between the late Prime Minister, Mr. Lyons, and the Country party that such matters would be submitted to the Tariff Board. Should the Government at this juncture do anything in the shape of a breach of that understanding, its action would scarcely be honorable. I remind the House that the manufacture of cars locally would deprive the Treasury of revenue now collected by way of duty on imported motor cars, thereby causing extra taxation, and handicapping transport because of higher costs.

It is interesting to observe the enthusiasm of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) . for this capitalistic enterprise. The honorable member referred to the Town and Country Union and supporters of a low tariff. I remind him that his party at She last election sent out circulars to a number of capitalistic manufacturers-

Mr Forde:

– The Federal Labour party has not sent out any circulars to Australian manufacturers.

Mr PROWSE:

– The honorable member’s denial is somewhat belated. An appeal was made to the capitalistic manufacturers for fighting funds iri order to defeat the low tariff’ Country party. I say in all sincerity that this is a matter which should be referred to the Tariff Board. That body could make its investigations and submit a report to the Parliament when it meets again about March next year. I do not think that any one should burke an inquiry. The Tariff Board has said that in the opinion of the defence authorities there is no great defence value to Australia in the local manufacture of motor cars. As a matter of fact, we have not sufficient petrol in Australia for our military vehicles, and therefore it is useless to push on with this project hurriedly. No harm will come from waiting for a further report from the Tariff Board. If that body reverses its previous recommendation, the Government will then have its backing, and can go ahead with the undertaking knowing that it is economically sound. If thiscourse be now followed, the question naturally arises why -we should have the

Tariff Board at all. Parliament set up that body to make inquiries and empowered it to take evidence on oath. I conclude by sayingthat if the Government so disregards the undertaking entered into with the Country party, and goes ahead with this project without submitting it to the Tariff Board, its action will not be

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– The proposal to manufacture complete motor cars in Australia has been before us for years, and money for the purpose has been collected. To-day, the honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) has repeated arguments which have been used whenever proposals to establish new manufacturing industries in Australia have come before this Parliament. In my opinion, this is the time to encourage manufactures in this country so that we may provide more of our own requirements and employ greater numbers of our own people. The only argument advanced by the honorable member forRiverina (Mr. Nock) was that the establishment of this industry would deprive the Treasury of the revenue now derived from duties on imported cars. I reply by saying that its establishment would provide work for many men who are now unemployed, and give to Australia an industry of which it could be proud. I shall support the proposal.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

– I cannot understand the desire of honorable members opposite to suppress debate on this subject. Twice to-day, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) has spent about three-quarters of an hour in delivering speeches containing a great deal of self-advertisement and abuse of others who dare to hold opposite views.

Mr Forde:

– Speaking on behalf of the Opposition, I occupied 20 minutes in dealing with one bill and 38 minutes on the other.

Mr GREGORY:

– I have never heard a more violent or contemptible speech.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).Order! The honorable member must withdraw that remark.

Mr GREGORY:

– I do so, Mr. Speaker. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition said that sinister influences were at work. Perhaps he was not heard by all honorable members, but I heard him say so distinctly.

Mr Forde:

– On several occasions the honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett) has referred to those sinister influences.

Mr GREGORY:

– The honorable member then went on to refer to an organization of which I was the president some years ago, and said that its objective was a low tariff policy for Australia. I have never been ashamed of my association with that organization. He then proceeded to speak disparagingly of men who gave evidence before the Tariff Board. He was not satisfied with that but he went on to cast reflections on the Tariff Board itself. I want members of Parliament and the public to ask themselves what is the proper authority to guide us in dealing with a subject of this kind. Surely the Tariff Board is the body to which we should look. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition spoke of sinister influences at work, but evidence of sinister influence belonged solely to the period when he himself was Minister for Customs. It was he who sent a circular to the manufacturers asking them what protection they wanted.

Mr Forde:

– I never sent any such circular.

Mr GREGORY:

– The honorable member not only sent out such circulars; he also evaded in every way the placing of tariff issues before the Tariff Board, which would have taken evidence on oath and in public. We know that the then Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties tried to have this matter dealt with by Parliament without reference to the Tariff Board. We were successful, however, in having it referred to the board, which suggested that the industry should foe established step by step, instead of introducing a scheme that would probably enormously increase the cost of cars. In its report the hoard stated -

  1. The board wishes to express its con sidered opinion that the present selling prices of cars in Australia are far too high, and that special care should he exercised to ensure that efforts to extend manufacture in Australia do not increase such prices.

  2. Some of the objections to the “ one-step development” (covered in the previous section of this report) would, at least in the early stages, apply with much less force in “ step by step “ development, e.g., marketing and distribution difficulties and overcoming of prejudice.

    1. Concentration of the manufacture of selected chassis parts in a limited number of factories for supply to assemblers generally should result in reduced costs and might permit of local manufacture without excessive cost. This method would not involve the same farreaching interference with existing industry as would occur with “ one step development “.

It is suggested that a company should be formed to engage in the manufacture of cars. Would it not be well that those interested in the formation of such a company should go before the Tariff Board and explain how the public are to be protected against exploitation and what its effect would be on employment? The report of the board shows that it would probably result in very grave unemployment. I cannot understand why the Government will not agree to our suggestion that the question should be referred to the board. It would only mean delaying the matter until the next meeting of Parliament.

Mr COLLINS:
Hume

.- I believe that the establishment of this industry is long overdue, notwithstanding the report of the Tariff Board, and I am going to support the Government wholeheartedly.

Mr ANTHONY:
Richmond

.- The duty of honorable members is to the people they represent, so I make no apology for keeping the House at this stage. I have the same right as has the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) to express my views and to put the case for those whose interests I am here to watch over. It is evident that there is a difference of opinion among members of the Country party regarding the creation of new industries. We have in our party high tariffists and low tariffists, and others who are neither the one nor the other. For my part whilst I believe that Australia should develop secondary industries - that it is most important for the welfare of the country that we should become as self-contained as possible - I hold that there is a point beyond which we should not try to go. For instance when it can be shown that the establishment of an industry would impose an unnecessary burden on the people, we should think very carefully before going any further with it. 1 remind honorable members opposite that the Tariff Board has given consideration to the probable effect upon those already employed in the motor industry of the establishment of a car-manufacturing enterprise in Australia. The board pointed out that there were 50,000 employees in the motor industry, and that if there were any grave dislocation resulting from the sudden application of a new policy, it might react disastrously upon those already employed. On page 29 of its report, tlie board stated -

In conclusion, we desire to emphasize two points made in the main report -

That the big investment of capital and the employment of 50,000 people in the motor industry in Australia demand that care be taken not further to restrict business lest unemployment and loss should result;

The board was not hostile to proposals for the creation of new avenues of employment. On the contrary, it was careful that persons employed in existing industries should not be thrown out of work.

Mr White:

– The honorable member has not pointed out that the part of the report from which he quoted was signed by only two members of the board.

Mr ANTHONY:

– The majority report of the board opposed the establishment of the industry, for the present, at any rate. The report continued -

  1. That the price of cars is already too high, being twice that charged in the United States of America (both expressed in the same currency). This tends to retard business and imposes heavy costs on transport.

The board has studied this matter more carefully in the interests of the community and of the working class than have many members of the Opposition who sprang so lightly to their feet to espouse the cause of car manufacture in Australia.

A further argument in favour of the establishment of the industry here is that it was necessary for defence. That aspect was considered by the Tariff Board, and Mr. Shepherd, who was then Secretary to the Defence Department, is reported as follows at page 22 of the report: -

The military authorities are of opinion that there are ample lorries and motor cars in Australia to meet the requirements of the lighting services in war extending over a considerable period, even after allowing for essential civil requirements, aa civil motor transport is likely to be severely restricted by shortage of fuel.

That was said two years ago, when war was not in the offing, but his statements have been proved to be correct. What he forecast is happening to-day. Because of the shortage of fuel, which is likely to be accentuated, we shall not be able to use all of the motor vehicles we already have. Instead of needing to manufacture more we shall have motor vehicles rusting through disuse.

I listened with interest to the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway), who approached the table and gave his blessing to the establishment of this industry. Last night, he also approached the table, and said very unctuously that we should set the lead in promoting world trade and harmony amongst nations, that we should buy from the other fellow-

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).Order! The honorable member is not in order in referring to a previous debate.

Mr ANTHONY:

– Those views have been expressed by the honorable member on various occasions, but when there is an opportunity to do something practical about it, he wants to raise the protective barrier so high that it will not be possible to find a market for the wool, wheat, butter, meat, &c, which we can produce economically.

Mr White:

– But this is a proposal for a bounty.

Mr ANTHONY:

– The honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) must surely recognize that the money for this bounty has been provided by means of a duty. We know very well that once an industry of this kind gets a foothold it continues to be maintained. We shall probably be faced, in the not distant future, if this bill is passed, with a request from the manufacturers for additional government assistance which must be granted because of the heavy losses they are suffering, otherwise the workers in the industry will be asked to accept lower wages. It must be remembered that the 80 per cent, profit made by General Motors-Holdens Limited to which some honorable members have referred, has not resulted entirely from the motor body-building operations of the company at Woodville, South Australia, for it has also made profits out of the sale of motor car chassis, spare parts, &c.

The Country party members of this Parliament owe a duty to the people engaged in rural industries and, whether we are at the beginning or the ending of the session, are under obligation to discharge their responsibilities.

Mr Clark:

– The honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) ran away from a proposal to pay 3s. (id: a bushel for wheat.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The interjection is disorderly and I ask the honorable member for Richmond to ignore it.

Mr ANTHONY:

– -Country party representatives in this Parliament should not let their constituents down, even though the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Clark) may chose to overlook the interests of the producers in his electorate. The honorable gentleman should give some consideration to the probable effect of this proposal on our great wool industry. Let me remind honorable members that while the value of the net mean factories’ production per head of thi population of Australia for 1914-1£. amounted to £12 14s. 2d. the corresponding figure for 1938-39 was £28 13s. 4d.

Mr Clark:

– Is there anything wrong with that?

Mr ANTHONY:

– Not at all ; but my point is that in the great pastoral industry of this country which, after all, is at the foundation of our national economy, the value of the production per head which, in 1914-15, was £12 3s. 6d., had by 1937-38 diminished to only £11 7s. 9d. In other words the pastoralists had to pay more than double for locallymanufactured goods while their income from their own production actually decreased. Surely in this Parliament we ought to pay some attention to- the welfare of people living in country districts, for the prosperity of the nation depends upon the prosperity of its primary producers. Whilst I believe in the establishment of economic secondary industries I do not believe in the establishment of uneconomic industries. I am in favour of a moderate tariff and shall always assist, by my voice and my vote, to provide such a tariff; but I cannot see any sense whatever in attempting to establish an industry which obviously must be uneconomic. The Tariff Board, in its wellconsidered report on this subject, pointed out that the Australian people required about 8,000 new motor vehicles each year. It also stated that to have any reasonable prospect of success an Australian motor manufacturing concern would need an output of at least 20,000 vehicles a year. Is it feasible that any one factory in Australia could expect to obtain at once the market for practically one-third of our total requirements? When an endeavour was made to place the internal economy of Germany on a uniform basis, it was stated that the country required a minimum of fifteen or sixteen different types of motor vehicles. I do nOt suppose that any one would suggest that Australia would require fewer types than that; but any local company would have the greatest difficulty to produce, on a profitable basis, so many different types as that for our limited market. In all of the circumstances, I can see no reasonable prospect of this industry being established on a satisfactory footing under existing conditions. The Country party desires to act fairly towards all sections of the community and for that reason I, as a member of it, intend to support the amendment moved by the leader of my party.

Motion (by Mr. Rosevear) negatived -

That the question be now put.

Mr BLAIN:
Northern Territory

– I shall support the amendment. Obviously, in order to ascertain the opinion of my party, I need only a little introspection! I am a believer in a moderate tariff. I also believe in regionalism. Regionalism means decentralization. I appeal to honorable members to show some kind of regard for the people outback, who are at present finding their transport problems very difficult. If transport is difficult in the thickly-settled areas, obviously it must be much more difficult in remote areas. The report of the Tariff Board to my mind indicates clearly that it is impossible to establish the motor engine manufacturing industry successfully in Australia at present. If we attempt to do so we should have our heads bumped together. Honorable members are well aware of the move that is on foot in many parts of the Commonwealth at present to secure the abolition of State Parliaments, but if this proposal is passed by the National Parliament it will show that it is not capable of appreciating the needs of the people of this country. If the Government were suggesting that the proposed new industry should be established at Wagga, which has a population of about 12,000 people, but which under a proper regional economy could support 30,000 people. I should support it wholeheartedly. I should also support it if it had in mind the establishment of the industry at a place like Gympie in Queensland. But we know very well that the industry is likely to be established in Sydney or Melbourne. That will mean that a grave disservice will be done to the decentralization movement in this country. If the proposed new industry were to be financed by regional banks and under a regional economy, I should be prepared to support it, but that is not the ease. The establishment of the industry is being engineered by lobbyists in this Parliament who seem to be particularly interested in getting the ear of the honorable members of the Labour party, who seem always to be very ready to listen to any whispered fairy story of projects likely to lead to the further development of our big cities. I am ashamed of some of the things that have been done in this Parliament in the last week or two. Some honorable gentlemen seem to be determined to make the Parliament a public joke. Earlier this week some members of the Labour party, in view of their arguments in favour of the glucose industry and the cotton industry, appeared to have tendencies towards regionalism, but those have all been dissipated by now. I suggest to honorable members who represent Queensland constituencies that they should confer with the Queensland Statistician, Mr. Colin Clark, who could tell them something about the merits of regionalism in a State like Queensland. I congratulate the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) on having moved his amendment to have this subject referred back to the Tariff Board. I hope that sanity will prevail among honorable members generally and that the amendment will be carried.

Mi-. McEWEN (Indi) [4.13].- We should surely at a time like this pay some regard to the circumstances in which certain major secondary industries were established in this country years ago. We should not be willing to establish uneconomic industries merely at the whim of the Government and regardless of economic considerations. Let us think for a moment of the establishment in Australia of the motor body building industry. By a coincidence it was established during the last war, but in circumstances of which I do not think any honorable member could be proud. Those remarks may he applied to certain other secondary industries. After strenuous endeavours, a system of developing secondary industries within Australia has been evolved which, to my mind, is sound. That is the practice of referring proposals for new industries to the Tariff Board, and in the last seven or eight years, at any rate, governments have been largely guided by the advice of that body in respect of such matters. From the very initial stages of this proposal to establish, the motor car manufacturing industry in Australia,, we find that there has been a disposition to sidestep this customary practice. The honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett) as Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties made the first announcement in connexion with this proposal.

Mr Beasley:

– The honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) was a Cabinet Minister at that time.

Mr McEWEN:

– I think not.

Mr Beasley:

– At any rate his party was in the composite Government.

Mr McEWEN:

– On the 26th May, 1936, the honorable member for Henty told the House that the Government proposed to impose a duty on a weight basis upon all motor chassis imported into this country for the purpose of raising revenue to be used for the establishment of a motor chassis manufacturing industry in Australia. Later, the Government, no doubt reacting to pressure, referred the matter to the Tariff Board for consideration.

Mr White:

– It was I, as Minister for Trade and Customs, who undertook to refer the matter to the Tariff Board.

Mr McEWEN:

– That is so. However, contrary to the terms of reference which were regarded as standard in such matters, the Tariff Board was asked not to report upon the economics of the proposal, but to suggest the best means of implementing the Government’s policy with regard to the manufacture of motor chassis in Australia. Therefore, from the very outset strange circumstances have appeared in connexion with this proposal. Only after speeches had been delivered in this House and representations had been made to the Government by members of the Country party were the originally proposed terms of reference of the Tariff Board altered, but rather grudgingly, tj* the addition of the words “ with consideration given to the general national and economic aspects “. Prior to that the Government appeared to be determined to manufacture motor cars in Australia irrespective of the economics of the proposal. Its second intimation was that it would refer to the Tariff Board the question as to how best its policy should be implemented. Later, it agreed to insert in the terms of reference the words which I have just read, asking the board to pay some regard to the economics of the proposal. With that suggestion the Country party was quite satisfied..

The Country party would be entirely misrepresented were it to be charged with having opposed the establishment of secondary industries in Australia as a general and consistent practice. It is glad to support the establishment of secondary industries in Australia, which can operate without, striking a blow at the stability of existing primary and secondary industries. So, we fall wholeheartedly behind the policy adopted in recent years of referring proposals such as this to that extraordinarily competent body, the Tariff Board, and of asking it to report on the economics of the various proposals submitted to it. Associated with this desire to establish this major secondary industry in Australia has been the story that has been re-told by all who have spoken in favour of it that its establishment is absolutely essential for the efficacy of our defence preparations. Those who were interested in this proposal, either politically, industrially, financially or otherwise, have always been coming forward and saying that this industry is essential for the complete safeguarding of Australian defence. During its inquiry, the Tariff Board had the benefit of the advice of the highest defence authorities in Australia. Notwithstanding the most consistent and persistent efforts, the board was quite unable to secure evidence from any senior defence officer, either civil or military, to the effect that the establishment of this industry was at all concerned with the defence security of Australia. So we find that there are really only two issues at stake. There is the issue whether this industry is really necessary or desirable. I think that we can all agree on that; though if you add to that consideration that it is an industry which could be economically established without prejudicing existing industry, it is a different matter. The other issue is whether it is politically possible to force the establishment of this industry regardless of the economics of the proposal. The Tariff Board’s inquiry into this matter was one of the most comprehensive it has ever attempted. Evidence was taken not only from those interested in the proposal from an impersonal aspect, but also from representatives of all of the great motor companies in Australia, from those who engage in the manufacture of component parts of cars, and from those interested in the importation of’ cars. The board also had evidence from defence authorities as to the desirability of the establishment of this industry from a defence point of view. An epitome of the whole of the evidence which led the Tariff Board to arrive at a very clear and unanimous decision is set out in its report. Nothing could be more concise than the following words used by the board in paragraph 1 of its summary of conclusions: -

The evidence before it convinces the board that it would be unwise at present to encourage or enforce the manufacture of the complete motor vehicle in Australia.

If there be any useful .purpose in establishing this ‘body as a tribunal to advise the Government; if there be any sincere purpose at all in referring this issue to the Tariff Board for investigation and report, then surely there should be no pretence or excuse for ignoring such a clear finding as that which I have just read.’ Yet we find that the Government has, in fact, ignored it. The report was, of course, so decisive, so final and conclusive, that when this recommendation of the Tariff Board came before it, the Government of the day found it impossible to proceed with the original proposal to encourage the manufacture of motor cars in Australia. In order, however, to give the proposal every possible opportunity to find support from the Tariff Board the issue was referred back to it by the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White), who was then Minister for Trade and Customs. The honorable gentleman set out in a memorandum to the Tariff Board a series of specific questions. I do not know if I would be in order in saying that some would regard them as leading questions; perhaps I may be permitted to say that they were certainly not unhelpful towards the objective which the honorable member has always had in mind. Even with this evidence of support on the part of the Minister of the day, which could not be interpreted as anything but favorable bias towards the manufacture of motor car chassis in Australia, She Tariff Board felt obliged ‘to submit a further and final recommendation substantially, if not entirely, upholding its original recommendations to the Government. Notwithstand-ing the fact that the Tariff Board pointed out unanimously that the whole of the evidence which was placed before it by the defence authorities was contrary to the view that the development of this industry is necessary for defence purposes, we find that the present Government has stressed that aspect in giving its reasons for the introduction of this bill.

Mr Curtin:

– Would the honorable member consider the holding of a combined meeting of the United Australia party and the Country party to resolve this difficulty?

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA · CP; LCL from 1940; CP from 1943

– The trend of the debate, and the evidence of silence from both the Government side and the Opposition side of the .House, indicate that if there has not been a combined meeting of Government supporters and members of the Labour party, at least there is a very clear understanding between them. In these circumstances, the Country party believes that it is doing right ‘by those whom it represents in making its views known clearly and fearlessly on this matter. That is a very proper exercise of the functions of Country party members. I am surprised to find that, although there are country electorates represented by members of both the other parties in this House, the constituents of which are vitally affected by any tendency to increase the cost of transport, no one of those representatives on either side of the House has thought fit to rise to his feet during this debate and state the case from the point of view of those whom he represents in this Parliament. We know that the tendency during recent years has been for railway transport to go into the discard heap, and for there to be an increasing tendency towards the use of motor transport. Transport costs have a most important effect on costs of production in our wool, wheat, dairying, and other primary industries. Surely, therefore, it is proper for members of the Country party and other honorable members from rural constituencies to defend those whom they represent against any proposal which will cause higher costs of production, which, in turn, will cause a further aggregation of our population in a few substantially settled centres of the Commonwealth. More than half of the population of Australia is concentrated in about halfadozen big cities. The industries operating in those cities are the result of a consistent policy of tariff protection which enables them to he carried on on a highly profitable basis. The people engaged in those industries draw satisfactory profits or satisfactory wages. It is no mere coincidence that,_ whenever a proposal comes before this Parliament to provide financial aid for some major industry, it is a rural industry that always requires the assistance. That is the result of the policy maintained over a period of years which has increased costs of production to a point at which the industries can no longer carry on profitably. This proposal was first referred by the Government to its own expert tribunal - the Tariff Board. The board’s report was positive, that the industry should not be established, but almost immediately the Government decided to go ahead with the proposal. I believe that the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) has done a service to Parliament in providing an opportunity for honorable members to record a vote on the question of referring the matter back to the Tariff Board for further report. If the board is asked once more to review the proposal and to consult those people who gave evidence in connexion with every aspect of it during the last inquiry, I have no doubt that the previous finding will be reaffirmed. The honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) rightly pointed out that it would be a mistake to hold the view that the establishment of this industry would automatically create a substantial increase of employment. Two members of the Tariff Board were at pains to express their opinion on that point. I quote the very specific comment of Messrs. Guy and Kelly, who said -

Iii conclusion, we desire to emphasize two points, made in the main report -

That the big investment of capital and the employment of 50,000 people in the motor industry in Australia demand that care be taken not further to restrict business lest unemployment and loss should result.

Honorable members opposite should give serious consideration to that point of view. They regard as one of their prime functions the safeguarding of the employment of those engaged in industry, and here the Tariff Board gives a clear warning that the enforced establishment of this industry, and the consequent higher costs i f production, might prejudice the employment of 50,000 people .already engaged in the motor manufacturing industry in Australia. The second point made by Messrs. Guy and Kelly was as follows: -

  1. That the price of cars is already too high, being twice that charged in the United States of America (both expressed in the same currency). This tends to retard business mid imposes heavy costs on transport.

Honorable members opposite should pause to think about that, aspect. ‘ It is pointed out very clearly that the foundational rural industries are already loaded with a capital cost for motor vehicles twice as high as the cost to competitive sellers of primary products in the United States of America. On this very day proposals will be brought before Parliament for the diversion of taxation revenue to the wheat industry, which is in a difficult position as the result of competitive selling by the United States of America, Argentina and other countries, where the costs of motor vehicles are substantially lower than they are in Australia. In order to give further emphasis to the point I am endeavouring to make, I quote a paragraph from the main report, of the Tariff Board, which stated -

Accepting the last basis and assuming 8,000 employees at an average wage of £225 per annum for the production of 35,000 chassis per annum, it will be seen that, tlie figure of £2,000,000 already arrived at as the possible cost to revenue of assisting the industry would more than pay the wages bill of £1,800,000.

I do not believe that any more extraordinary comment has come before this Parliament in recent years. The Tariff Board says definitely that in its opinion, the estimated cost to revenue of the establishment of the industry would be more than twice the amount of wages paid to its employees. The Tariff Board was asked to report upon the economics of the proposal, and I deduce from that that the Government which made that reference to the board intended that the proposal should not be proceeded with if the economic position was not reasonably sound. There is no more damning indictment of the proposal than the comment which I have just read, yet the Government proposes to go ahead with the establishment of the industry without any further consideration, other than political consideration.

Mr Curtin:

– Had we acted on the same reasoning 35 years ago, we should not have an. iron and steel industry to-day.

Mr McEWEN:

– The Tariff Board fortifies its previous statement by the following one : -

Moreover, it has already been shown that a vast amount of employment is .provided by the motor industry as it exists in Australia at present and this employment - particularly that of the 10,000 engaged” in distribution and selling - must be affected by the manufacture of a large number of chassis in the Commonwealth, especially if, as must apparently be assumed, the Australian output is from one factory. The employment in chassis manufacture cannot, therefore, bc expected to be a net gain in employment and the wages figure of £1.800.000 used above in comparison with cost to revenue is probably much higher than the actual net increase in wages which would be paid. It was shown in evidence that Australia in the manufacture of bodies provides more employment than Canada does in the production of two and a half times as many chassis.

That proves beyond any doubt that the proposal to establish the manufacture of complete motor cars, as distinct from the step-by-step process recommended by the Tariff Board, is uneconomic. The Tariff Board has not dismissed the suggestion that motor car chassis should be manufactured in Australia. It has been very constructive and has helped the Government in its evident desire to establish the industry by submitting its alternative step-by-step proposal. It should be apparent to any layman that it would be more economic to have a central factory manufacturing only one part for all of the cars assembled in this country than to have a number of factories making complete chassis and engines, each of which would be obliged to install the complete plant for the manufacture of every part. Even in the United States of America, where the total volume of motor car production is enormously greater than Australia can contemplate for many years to come, the great firms such as General Motors, Ford and Chrysler do not make some of the smaller parts. Wherever they can buy a part cheaper than they can manufacture it, they do so. Windscreen wipers and carburettors are manufactured for them by outside factories.

Mr Forde:

– There is nothing to prevent that from being done under any scheme of manufacture in Australia.

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA · CP; LCL from 1940; CP from 1943

– There is reason to believe that the proposal before the House would make it impossible to follow that practice iri Australia.

Mr Jennings:

– Motor car gears arealready being manufactured in Australia.

Mr McEWEN:

– Surely we do not want an entire monopoly for the manufacture of chassis and engines in Australia. It would not be possible for factories to bear the overhead costs that.” would be incurred, unless they were doingthe complete .job. It is accepted by theTariff Board that, if the Government; should- proceed with its proposal to “ enforce “ the establishment of this industry, the factories concerned would necessarily have to manufacture the complete chassis and engine. The Tariff Board, therefore, has made its very wise alternative proposal to continue with the step-by-step manufacturing process, which has been in operation for some years past. The honorable member for Watson (Mr. Jennings) interjected that we were already making motor car gears, and the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) that we were making springs.

Mr White:

– And radiators.

Mr McEWEN:

– I do not know whether we are making radiators yet for assembly. For years, we have been making radiators for repairs.

Mr White:

– They are being made for assembly now.

Mr McEWEN:

– They are being made then on the policy recommended by the Tariff Board - the step-by-step policy.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– The manufacturing company is failing because the foreign corporations will not support it.

Mr McEWEN:

– How is that difficulty to be surmounted under this proposal ?

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Very simply.

Mr McEWEN:

– That is very interesting. The Government with which I was associated took this one further step towards the complete manufacture of motor vehicles by introducing a proposal to have radiators built here with bounty assistance. That step is being frustrated, according to the interjection by the Minister for Trade and ‘Customs (Mr. John Lawson), by the unwillingness of the large assembly firms to purchase the Australian-made radiator. It appears that the Government is confronted with two alternatives. Either it will allow this radiator factory, which was established under government sponsorship, “ to collapse, or it will replace the bounty with a prohibitive duty or an embargo against the importation of radiators. There could be no more forceful argument to support the point of view of the Country party than this very fact, brought to light by the Minister’s interjection. What we fear in this corner is that this present proposal, which purports to be one under which motor chassis can be manufactured without additional cost by the assistance of a bounty, is merely a proposal brought forward for the initial stages of establishment of the industry. It will not be long before we are told that, for one reason or another, it is no longer possible to continue the industry on a bounty basis and that it must get its protection from either an embargo or a prohibitive tariff on imported motor vehicles. The only sound way in which to go ahead with this thing is by justifiable governmental assistance in the manufacture of one part after another of the motor vehicle until the stage is reached when the whole vehicle can be manufactured locally. We started out by enforcing really the manufacture of motor car bodies here by governmental action which was hard to justify. Later, that action was more defensible. Subsequently, we found that, motor tires of satisfactory quality could be built in Australia at a reasonably low cost. So we have found that motor car batteries, springs, shackles and so on can be made here. That, I believe, is the only sane and economic method to be followed in the march towards this objective upon which, I think, we all agree - the final and complete manufacture of motor vehicles in Australia.

No greater disservice could be done to this industry than by attempts to establish it by means that are not economic. No greater disservice could be done to the rural industries than to add one more burden to their total costs of production. The best and proper thing would be for the Government to decide that it will accept the recommendation of the Tariff Board and adopt as its policy the fostering of this industry by a step-by-step process. If the Government is absolutely determined against following that line at present, the only thing for it to do is to refer the matter back to the Tariff Board for further consideration upon the aspects which have been brought to light in the debate to-day. I have little doubt myself that the Tariff Board would for the second time confirm its original recommendation.

Mr CURTIN:
Leader of the Opposition · Fremantle

– I know that the House is anxious to resolve the matter raised by the honorable member for

Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron), but before that is done one or two things should be said. The first is that no petrol is being produced in Australia at present. The importing industries, which are said be tree from monopoly as contrasted with the manufacturing industries, said by the Country party to be always subjected to monopolies, are those who demonstrate in Australia the difference between the two kinds of monopolies. Stripping petrol in Australia of all governmental charges, it is dearer than it is in any other country in the world. The supply of petrol to (he Australian people is exclusively in tlie hands of those persons who import it from other countries. There is no local competitor. The motor car requires not only a chassis, but also petrol to propel it. We are told that it is uneconomic to have local motor cars. It is more uneconomic to have foreign motor cars. It is proved conclusively that, where there is no competitive capacity, the Australian public is subjected to more exploitation than is the case where there is local competition. That is my first point. My next point is that, if all of the arguments advanced by the Country party in the last 35 years had prevailed in Australia, we should to-day have no iron and steel industry, and should be defensively ineffective. The very safety of the country would have been imperilled if these reechoings of bygone doctrines of reliance on some one else to supply us, had prevailed.

I come to the great thing. This bill is the outcome of a covenant that the Government made with the people of Australia and the motor car industry. Within that covenant was a decision by Cabinet, which was ratified by Parliament in 1936, that a tax be imposed on imported motor car chassis to provide funds for the payment of a bounty in order to enable the establishment in Australia of an industry for the manufacture of motor vehicles. That Government included the right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page), the Leader of the Country party, the honorable member for Gippsland (Mr. Paterson), the then Deputy Leader of the Country party, the honorable member for Calare (Mr. Thorby), the present Deputy Leader.

Mr FORDE:

– And the honorable member for Maranoa (Mr. Hunter).

Mr CURTIN:

– Yes. In office, the Country party undertakes,- as the price of its political existence in a coalition government, to give grudging support to secondary industries; but immediately it is out of office, it revives all of its old freetrade talk and cant about the unwisdom of loading Australia with uneconomic burdens. In order to justify this kind of periodic return to virtue, it denounces the Labour party because that party says, “ We support the Government’s policy “. As a matter of fact, the policy that the Government is applying in this instance is the programme of the Australian Labour party. We originated this policy and we have stood for it all through the years of the history of this Federation. We stand for that policy, in regard to not only motor chassis and engines, but also woollen piece goods, boots - all things essential to make this nation self-reliant and self-contained and independent. There are at present even more urgent reasons than ever for the immediate establishment of the motor car industry in Australia. Nobody will dispute the relevancy of the industry to defence preparedness.

Mr McEwen:

– No defence official will confirm the honorable gentleman’s point of view.

Mr Beasley:

– Not to-day?

Mr McEwen:

– No.

Mr CURTIN:

– All right, not to-day; but defence experts frequently wake up to-morrow to the fact that the country is in peril. The defence experts of the Government did not believe that the Air Force would be the dominant factor in the prosecution of this war and the safety of Australia. But we did.

Mr Hutchinson:

– The defence experts still say that the Navy is the first line of defence.

Mr CURTIN:

– I am not saying that the Navy is not the first line of defence, but the dominant thing for the protection of the civil population of every country to-day is that it should be strong in the air. That is clear. With regard to armed power, the mobility of troops depends on having efficiency in road and rail transportation. I endorse the passage in the speech of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) that considerations relating to defence preparedness make this bill a matter of national policy. That statement will have the acquiescence of all well-informed men. I repeat that. Defence preparedness cannot be placed on an economic basis.

Mr Prowse:

– “What is wrong with the Tariff Board having another look at this ?

Mr CURTIN:

– The Tariff Board is merely an investigatory body appointed by this Parliament to examine certain matters referred to it and to indicate its opinion on those matters.

Mr Prowse:

– That would be useful in this case.

Mr CURTIN:

– The members of the Tariff Board are not policy-makers for this nation. The policy of this country, surely, is to be formulated by the Government and approved by the Parliament. The way in which that policy is to be carried out may certainly he a matter on which we could invite, expert assistance. But at this period of this country’s evolution and having regard to the country’s future, having established the iron and steel industry as well as a number of other major industries, including the manufacture of aircraft, the time is opportune to embark on the manufacture of complete motor cars. This is not a matter for the Tariff Board; it is a matter for the Government, and the Parliament, and the country. Therefore, we say that this industry should be established. Three years ago the Country party supported a declaration that the duty on chassis should be imposed in order to provide a. fund.

Mr Gregory:

– That is not quite correct.

Mr CURTIN:

– It may not be quite correct because no one can ever interpret clearly what the Country party does stand for. However, when I say that the then Leader of the Country party (Sir Earle Page) and its Deputy Leader (Mr. Paterson) were members of the Government which brought in the proposal, I am correct.

Mr Paterson:

– Later, the same Government referred it to the Tariff Board.

Mr CURTIN:

– Yes. Since then over £.1,000,000 has been collected by the Treasury for the purpose of establishing a fund to provide a bounty on motor car engines. I venture to say that the question of policy, as to whether or not this industry should be established, was decided before the duty was determined upon by the then Government. If the Country party objected to the proposal in principle, the time for it to have launched its objection was when it was a collaborator with the Government. It did not do so.

Mr McEwen:

– We did not object to it in principle.

Mr CURTIN:

– The Country party committed this Parliament to the establishment of this industry, and most certainly we are committed to it. Later, when the Country party began to stagger at the knees, there were delays and procrastinations. The present Minister for Information (Sir Henry Gullett), who at the time was Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties, left the Government, and from his place in this chamber, as a private member, he raised the issue as to what was to be done with the money that had been collected for the purpose of paying a bounty. That was a challenge to the Government. Further delays occurred. The Opposition, ever watchful of the obligations of the Parliament to the country, directed its Deputy Leader (Mr. Forde) on three occasions to raise this matter in the House. The Parliament has entered into a moral agreement to establish this industry; otherwise over £1,000,000 has been collected under false pretences. The Opposition supports the proposal of the Government to carry out a principle already approved by the Parliament and to implement a policy long ago initiated by the Parliament.

Mr HUTCHINSON:
Deakin

.- The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) said that this Parliament is under a moral obligation to go ahead with this industry. I remind honorable members that when the matter was debated in this House for the first time, an assurance was given by the then Minister in charge of negotiations for Trade Treaties, who is now Minister for Information (Sir Henry Gullett) that, if the Tariff Board reported that the industry would prove to he uneconomic, the Government would not proceed with the scheme. That undertaking is to be found in Hansard. If there has been any departure from an undertaking entered into, it is the failure of the Government to honour that assurance.

Question put -

That the words proposed to be omitted (Mr. Archie Cameron’s amendment) stand part of the question.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. j. Bell.)

AYES: 46

NOES: 11

Majority…. 35

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment negatived.

Original question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2480

DEFENCE BILL (No. 3) 1939

Second Reading

Mr STREET:
Minister for the Army · Cor angamite · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is a small bill to rectify an anomaly which has arisen in that, by virtue of the provisions of section 31 of the Defence Act, every officer who is appointed to, and every soldier who has enlisted in, the 2nd Australian Imperial Force, is a member of the Permanent Forces, as are also those men who have enlisted in the garrison battalions. The last-mentioned group comprises former members of the 1st Australian Imperial Force who are relieving the Military Forces in the guarding of vulnerable points. Under the Superannuation Act, these officers and soldiers are liable to contribute to the fund established under the act, and therefore may become entitled to receive superannuation benefits. The inclusion of such officers and men is foreign to the purpose of the act, which is designed to make provision for persons employed by the Commonwealth in a permanent capacity. It would also result in embarrassing the fund. Therefore, this bill provides that officers and soldiers shall not be deemed to be employees of the Commonwealth within the meaning of the Superannuation Act, and shall not be eligible or liable to contribute thereunder. Clause 3 of the bill is as follows : -

Section thirty-one of the principal act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following sub-section: - “ (4.) An officer or soldier appointed or enlisted, on or after the third day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirtynine, for service in a military force raised in time of war for war service, or a soldier enlisted on or after that date solely for service in time of war, shall not, by reason only of such appointment or enlistment, be deemed to be an employee within the meaning of the Superannuation Act 1922-1937.”.

The bill is non-contentious, and I ask honorable members to accept it.

Mr BLACKBURN:
Bourke

– I have read the bill, and what the Minister for the Army (Mr. Street) has said about it is quite correct.

Question resolved in theaffirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2481

POSTAL RATES (DEFENCE FORCES) BILL 1939

Suspension of Standing ORDERS

Motion (by Mr. Harbison) - by leave - agreed to -

That so much of the Standing Orders bc suspended as would prevent Order of the Day - Postal Rates (Defence Forces) Bill 1930 - Second reading - made an Order of the Day for the next sitting, being made the next Order of the Day for this sitting.

Second Reading

Mr HARRISON:
Postmaster -General · Wentworth · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill is non-contentious. Its purpose is to provide for reduced rates of postage on mail matter addressed to, and posted by, members of the several arms of the Defence Forces of the Commonwealth. The proposed rates represent an appreciable reduction of the normal rates of postage, and will apply to mail matter of members of the Commonwealth Forces, both at home and abroad, as well as to mail matter posted in Australia by members of the Commonwealth Forces to addresses within the Commonwealth. Honorable members will realize that it is not practicable to regulate by local legislation the rates of postage which shall apply to mail matter posted by members of the Commonwealth Forces on service abroad. That, of course, is the function of the country in which the troops are located. At the moment, we have an arrangement with the Government of the United Kingdom that members of the United Kingdom Forces serving here can have their mail franked through free of charge. When our troops are in the United Kingdom, we shall have the same arrangement with the authorities there in regard to their mail matter.

Clause 5 of the bill provides that the Postmaster-General shall determine the conditions as to addressing, marking and transmitting articles posted at the reduced rates. These conditions relate to the manner in which articles for the troops should be addressed, the means by which mail matter posted by the troops to members of the public shall be identified for rating purposes, and any special arrangements relating to the posting, transmission and delivery of the articles bearing the reduced rate, which may be necessary for the efficient handling of the traffic, and for the safeguarding of the revenue.

In regard to clause 6, it will be appreciated that the object in view is to provide cheap rates of postage on mail matter exchanged between members of the forces and their relatives and friends. No justification exists for the extension of the arrangement to departmental correspondence. The bill is essentially a wartime measure, and provision is therefore made in clause 7 for the withdrawal of the special facilities by proclamation at a suitable date after the termination of the war.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– During the last war, no postage was charged on mail matter posted by troops with their units on active service. Of course, mail matter could not be posted free in a Belgian or French post officeIt would appear that the rate of postage between ourselves and the country in which the troops are to be situated, is still to be arranged. When an army goes abroad on active service, it carries its own postal arrangements with it, and mail matter posted in the units should come home free of charge. Human nature being what it is, I am afraid that the arrangement by which mail matter may be posted in Australia at reduced rates, will cause the Postmaster-General trouble before very long. 1 think the arrangement should be limited to approved matter; otherwise there will be a tendency for mail matter to be taken into the camp, and posted there in order to obtain the benefit of the lower rate.

Mr HARRISON:
PostmasterGeneral · Wentworth · UAP

– In reply - Arrangements will be the same as during the last war. Mail matter will be franked, and conveyed in special bags. Steps will bp taken to ensure, by means of markings and special addresses, that the privilege is not abused.

Question resolved in the affirmative

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2482

AIR FORCE BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed from page 2462, on motion by Mr. Holt -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr BRENNAN:
Batman

.- History repeating itself, we have here a bill which has been introduced in the closing hours of the session when there is no longer an opportunity for a detailed discussion of its provisions. I strongly deprecate the practice of introducing bills at the last moment. It is very important that measures relating to defence should be carefully scrutinized and comparative legislation examined for the purpose of seeing in what particulars a departure has been made from the existing law. A similar measure was introduced at the end of the last sittings by the present Minister for the Army (Mr. Street), and I made my protest on that occasion, a protest which I now repeat. I am aware that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) has faithfully discharged his duty of examining the bill in the limited time at his disposal and that, in addition, he has taken counsel with my honorable and learned friend, the honorable member for Bourke (Mr. Blackburn). However, a bill of this description invites discussion, and all honorable members who are interested in the subject should have an opportunity to discuss it. The Acting Minister for Air (Mr. Holt) stated that the passage of the bill is a matter of urgency, and I realize, of course, that the Government possesses powers under its national security legislation, so-called, for enacting, in a perhaps still less desirable way, legislation of this sort. I am glad to know that the honorable member for Bourke has secured the acceptance of an amendment in relation to compulsory service in the Air Force beyond the limits of the Commonwealth, and that the amendment which he drafted has been amplified and extended by an amendment drawn by the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley). I do not propose to discuss the bill in detail. I commenced with a protest, and I conclude this short address with a renewal of that protest. For the rest, realizing that the Government already possesses extensive powers, and that it regards the bill as urgent, and, accepting as I do, the observations of the Acting Minister, I do not propose to offer further opposition to the bill. I remind the Acting Minister that it should not be taken for granted that the view of the Government is necessarily the view of all honorable members and particularly of the Opposition or individual members of the Opposition. Regard must be had to the individual views of all honorable gentlemen on the measures that are submitted to the House.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.

Clause 5 (Establishment of Air Force and application of Defence Act thereto).

Mr HOLT:
Acting Minister for Air · Fawkner · UAP

– I move -

That after the proviso the following proviso be inserted: - “ Provided further that, notwithstanding anything contained in this or any other act -

a person called upon to serve in the Citizen Forces under section sixty of the Defence Act shall not be required, unless he voluntarily agrees to do so, to enlist or serve in the Air Force; and

a person who is liable to be trained under Part XII. of the Defence Act shall not be allotted to the Air Force unless -

being under the age of eighteen years, his parents or guardians consent to his being so allotted; or

being of the age of eighteen years or more, he consents to be so allotted.”.

This is the amendment which I foreshadowed in my second-reading speech. The suggestion for it was made in the first place by the honorable member for Bourke (Mr. Blackburn).

Mr BLACKBURN:
Bourke

.- The Air Force Act 1923 contains a provision to oblige compulsory service in the Air Force. This provision, I point out to honorable members, is contained in the act itself and is not dependent upon the national security regulations. If the amendment of the Acting Minister is agreed to compulsory service in the Air Force will not be enforceable.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6 -

The Principal Act is amended by adding at the end thereof the following sections: - “ 4. Members of the Air Force may be required toserve for training or any air force service either within or beyond the limits of the Commonwealth.

Mr HOLT:
Acting Minister for Air · Fawkner · UAP

– I move -

That at the end of proposed new section 4, the following proviso be inserted: - “ Provided that no member of the Air Force appointed or enlisted for service within the limits of Australia only shall be required to serve beyond those limits unless he voluntarily agrees so to serve. “ (2) For the purposes of this section the term ‘Australia’ has the same meaning as in the Defence Act.”

This is the amendment which the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) desires to have inserted. The purpose of it is to ensure that persons who enlist in the Air Force shall not be required to serve beyond Australia except voluntarily.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 7 agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments; report - by leave - adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2483

WHEAT INDUSTRY (WARTIME CONTROL) BILL 1939

Second Reading

Mr SPENDER:
Acting Treasurer · Warringah

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is purely a machinery measure, incidental to the Government’s policy for the assistance of the wheat industry in respect of the 1939-40 harvest. As honorable members are aware, the Government is arranging for the Commonwealth Bank to finance the Australian Wheat Board’s advances to the wheat-growers. The Government has guaranteed the advances made by the bank. The bank will be reimbursed from market realizations for wheat, from flour tax collections, and from special government assistance. The bill provides for payment to the bank of sums equivalent to the flour tax collections, subject to certain adjustments. It should be read in conjunction with the Wheat Industry Assistance Act 1938, which provides that all moneys collected under the Flour Tax Assessment Act 1938 shall be paid into the Wheat Industry Stabilization Fund. After providing for the special refund to Tasmania, general tax refunds, and payments approved by the Minister in connexion with the removal of wheat-growers from marginal areas, the amount of money in the Wheat Industry Stabilization Fund will be payable to the States in proportion to their wheat production, and the States will pay out the sums received by them to the wheat-growers.

This bill simply provides that, instead of the moneys being paid to the States for distribution to wheat-growers, they shall be paid to the Commonwealth Bank of Australia in repayment of advances already made to the wheat-growers. Briefly put, instead of the Commonwealth’s flour tax collections being paid out to the States and then to the growers, the growers will be paid by the Wheat Board direct by means of advances made by the Commonwealth Bank, and the flour tax collections will be paid over to the Commonwealth Bank in repayment of those advances. A safeguard is included to ensure that, if the market returns are sufficient to repay the advances, either without using any of the money from the flour tax, or after using only portion of that money, the money from the flour tax, or that portion of it which is unused, will be paid to the States for distribution to the growers. The measure expires on the 1st December, 1940. There is nothing controversial in this purely machinery bill.

Mr WILSON:
Wimmera

.- I recognize the need for the introduction of this bill. I hope that it will safeguard the home-consumption-price principle, the operation of which in connexion with the wheat industry was secured only after many, years of endeavour. I accept the word of the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) that the safeguards to which he has referred are effective. I should like to refer at some length to certain aspects of the wheat industry, but in view of the circumstances of the sitting I shall be brief. The wheat-growers of Australia will continue to look to the Commonwealth Government to discharge certain obligations in respect of this industry. No long-range policy has yet been implemented, yet this is an absolute necessity if the industry is to bc continued on a reasonably profitable basis. I do not wish to repeat what I and other honorable members, who represent wheat-growing constituencies, have said on this subject on other occasions, b;ut I feel it incumbent upon me to say that Government supporters and also some members of the Country party will be required to answer to people who live in certain wheat-growing areas for their failure to meet the needs of the industry more adequately. Ve are all well aware that the crops of wheat-growers in some ureas have partially failed this year. J wish to ask that a proportion of the sum of £500,000 which has been earmarked for the purpose of assisting to remove necessitous wheat-growers from marginal land, shall be used this year to provide a payment on an acreage basis, or otherwise, to farmers, whose crops have failed. The time has arrived when the Commonwealth Government should indicate clearly whether it really desires to see the wheat industry continue on a selfsupporting basis. If this is not its desire it should take prompt steps to place a large number of wheat-growers in other industries. If it is its desire, the wheatgrowing industry must be stabilized on a permanent basis. A plan is being sponsored in the United States of America so to control wheat production as to ensure that there shall always be in hand sufficient grain from year to year regardless of the current crop.

Mr Spender:

– With what part of the bill is the honorable member dealing?

Mr SPEAKER (Hon G T Bell:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

The honorable member is not in order in discussing the whole question of the wheat industry on a bill which deals only with the re-allocation of a certain fund.

Mr WILSON:

– I shall endeavour to meet your wishes, Mr Speaker. I emphasize that the wheat-growers of Australia are looking to the Government to deal effectively with their problems. I trust that, before another crop has been har vested, a comprehensive scheme for the improvement of the industry will be evolved.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

– I do not intend to oppose the bill, though I regret that the Government has seen the necessity for its introduction., I should have preferred, if possible, that the farmers should have had the flour tax in addition to what the Government has already promised. I appeal to the Minister for Commerce to pass on to us as speedily as possible any information that may come to him with regard to the sale of the Australian wheat crop. I trust that, before the sittings of the Parliament are resumed, the Government will be able to evolve a comprehensive scheme for the industry. In a very short time the crops for next season’ will be planted, and therefore the preparation of such a scheme becomes an urgent matter.

Mr NOCK:
Riverina

.- The intention of this bill is to transfer the proceeds of the flour sales tax to the credit of the Commonwealth Wheat Pool in the Commonwealth Bank for the current year. During past years it has been transferred to the States for distribution to farmers. When delivering his wheat every farmer had to get certificates from the Silo Board or from- those to whom he delivered his wheat, and then present those declarations with his claim to the office in the capital city in the State in which he resides. This year’s distribution will require three payments, including the final payment still to be made. With the proposal now before us, the whole of the proceeds will go to the credit of the pool and will be included in the pool as part of the advances guaranteed by the Government to the Commonwealth Bank. That is quite all right. The pool will know the exact quantity delivered by each farmer, who will be able to ascertain the exact share of the proceeds of this tax to which he is entitled. There is one provision of the bill, however, which I think is a great mistake. I refer to the provision that, if there is a surplus after the overdraft at the Commonwealth Bank has been met. it shall be transferred to the States for distribution.

Mr Spender:

– The object of that is to preserve the separate identity of the fund and of the flour tax.

Mr NOCK:

– I realize what the Acting Treasurer has in mind, but it is quite unnecessary. It means that the declarations of delivered quantities of wheat will

Iia ve to be produced for amounts which may be as little as id. or id. a bushel, which the State bodies will have to distribute to every wheat-grower in Australia. The pool could distribute to every farmer The whole of the proceeds of the tax without this additional expenditure. All that is necessary is that the warrants shall contain a space in which to insert the amount to which each farmer is entitled from this tax. Those amounts will be calculated at the end of the year when the total receipts are known. The banks will be advised from time to time when distribution is to be made and will credit the payments to the farmers’ accounts. That will save considerable clerical and stationery expenses, and will be a more business-like way of dealing with this matter. I have had complaints with regard to the method by which the tax has been declared. Figures for the twelve months which expired a couple of days ago show that the sales tax and. the wheat price aggregate 4s. 9d. instead of 5s. 2d. a bushel, which was the rate agreed upon by all of the States and the Commonwealth. The effect of this is that the millers retain amounts which should go to the farmers. The report of the Royal Commission on the milling and baking industries declared that 37s. a ton plus 8s. for interest, or a total of 45s., was a reasonable allowance for gristing and profit to’ the millers. The committee that determines the rate of tax allows £3 for this work. This should be rectified. It results in giving to the millers what the farmers should receive. It represents £1 a ton, or over £600,000 a year, that should be going to the farmers, an extra Id. a bushel all round in the bounty distribution. I have arranged to discuss this matter with the Acting Treasurer privately, and therefore, I shall not press it now. 1 rose mainly because I wanted the people of Australia to know that the flour tax plus the price of wheat does not provide the agreed-upon homeconsumption price of 5s. 2d. but only 4s. 9d. a bushel f.o.r. Williamstown.

Mr McHUGH:
Wakefield

.- I cannot understand why the proceeds of the ‘flour tax are to be diverted as it is proposed in this bill. I understand that the tax was originally imposed for the purpose of re-settling those wheatgrowers engaged on marginal areas. Every indication points to a large number of crop failures this year, and it seems likely that the difficulties of the industry will be considerably increased as the result, and that some assistance will have to be rendered to those who this year reap no crop at all. My concern is mostly for those unfortunate people. Before this bill is passed, I should like the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Spender) to amplify his explanation as to the reason for the proposed diversion.

Mr SPENDER:
Acting Treasurer · Warringah

– In reply - In my second-reading speech, I made it plain that the proposed diversion is in accordance with the scheme outlined by the Prime Minister under which the flour tax is to be primarily applied to the reduction of any deficiency arising out of the guarantee given by the Commonwealth Government to the Commonwealth Bank. Insofar as there has been no deficiency, the money is to be diverted to the use of the farmers in accordance with the Prime Minister’s promise.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2485

SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT BILL (No. 3) 1939

Second Reading

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Acting Minister for Supply and Development · Parramatta · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Honorable members will note that the bill which I am now submitting represents a very minor and, I hope, non-contentious variation of the Supply and Development Act. ‘ The section which it is proposed to amend already authorizes the Government to establish aircraft factories. It is now proposed to add to this authority the power to purchase buildings or establishments for the same purpose. I can hardly conceive that Parliament would have hesitated to give this power, had it been sought when the original measure was before the House. Extensive as has been Australia’s entry into aeroplane building during the last two years, the magnitude of the Empire air scheme, involving the training of thousands of air crews, will demand a prompt duplication and possibly triplication of that effort. Hundreds of planes, including advanced training craft as well as elementary training machines, will be required to enable Australia to fulfil the obligations which it has entered into with the United Kingdom and other dominions, and it is felt that, with a view to avoiding possible delays, and to enable a speed-up of machine production, we should be able to acquire existing establishments if this should be considered to be desirable. I suggest that honorable members will find no difficulty in granting a speedy passage to the bill.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- This bill is of immense importance. It gives the Government power, by the passing of legislation just as the House is about to rise, to buy aircraft factories, the actual value of which might run into hundreds of thousands of pounds. The bill might well have been brought up at an earlier stage of the present sittings or deferred until Parliament re-assembles next year.

Mr Scullin:

– We certainly should have seen the bill earlier.

Mr WHITE:

– Yes; we are told without warning that the Government wishes to obtain these very wide powers.

I had hoped that to-day we should have heard something of the Empire airtraining scheme to which the bill is related. The Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) promised to make a statement on that subject this week, but so far we have heard nothing about it. Perhaps we shall only read about it in the press a few days later.

I should like to hear some further explanation from the Minister regarding what establishments the Government is likely to purchase under the powers- conferred upon it by this bill, which is presented at the very “ death-knock “ of the sittings. Will the Minister tell the House what the Government’s proposals are in this connexion?

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- I ask the Government not to be too one-eyed in exercising the powers granted by the bill, and not to concentrate any new aircraft establishments in Melbourne or Sydney. These industries should be developed in the smaller States.

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Acting Minister for Supply and Development · Parramatta · UAP

– In reply - In answer to the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White), I emphasize that there are no grounds for suspicion in connexion with this measure. The Government already has the power to erect buildings; it now seeks the power to purchase additional ones.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 (Establishment or purchase of aircraft factories).

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- This is the only really important clause in the bill. The Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) has said that there are no grounds for suspicion. I am not suspicious. I merely wish to obtain some information, because the explanation of the Acting Minister in his second-reading speech was not very clear. He said that the Government was seeking power to purchase buildings, but the clause goes further than that. It provides for the establishment or purchase of aircraft factories and I submit that that can mean more than the erection of buildings. It could include plant and tools of a- high capital value. I shall be glad if the Acting Minister will tell me something more about the provisions of the clause.

As the Prime Minister is present also, I ask him whether his promised statement on the Empire air-training scheme will be made to-night on the motion for the adjournment of the House?

Mr Menzies:

– Unfortunately, I cannot make that statement to-night.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- Will the Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) inform the committee whether the expenditure likely to be incurred under this measure is included in the appropriations already voted ?

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Acting Minister for Supply and Development · Parramatta · UAP

– There is no specific proposal. The Government wishes to have the power to acquire buildings and plant already in operation instead of being obliged to purchase facilities abroad. Any transactions must be brought before this Parliament.

Clause agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2487

COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC SERVICE BILL (No. 2) 1939

Second Reading

Mr PERKINS:
Monaro- Minister in charge of External Territories · Eden · UAP

.- I move-

That the bill bc now road a second time.

The object of this bill is to amend sections 50 and 72 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act 1922-1937. I regret that it has not been found practicable to proceed with the whole of the bill which has been received from the Senate, and which included provision for the amendments of sections 50 and 72 contained in this shortened measure, but on the ground of urgency it has been deemed desirable to deal at this stage only with the proposed amendments of the two sections mentioned. Clause 3 has been inserted in order to ensure that the right of appeal against promotions in the Service, provided by sub-section 6 of section 50 of the principal act, shall not be lost to officers because of their absence from their departments on war service. With regard to clause 4, I remind honorable members that sub-section 2 of section 72 of the principal act provides for the grant of leave of absence to officers called up in pursuance of the Defence Act for active service in Australia or for active service in the Naval Forces. Sub-section 4 of the same section provides that the period of absence shall for all purposes be included as part of the officers’ period of service under the Public Service Act. In the proclamation by the

Governor-General published in the Commonwealth Gazette of the 2nd September calling out the Citizen Forces, the term “ war service “ is used. As there is a distinction between the terms “ active service “ and “ war service “, it has been considered advisable to amend subsection 2 by inserting the word “ war “ instead of “ active “ thus bringing the provisions of the sub-section into line with the terms of the proclamation by the Governor-General.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Maribyrnong

– Whilst I can see the advantages that will arise from this measure I regret that the Government is not going on with the proposal regarding which the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) gave an undertaking some time ago for the establishment of a Staff Classification Board. The right honorable gentleman promised to incorporate certain amendments in the Public Service Act in order that Commonwealth Railways officers might have rights of appeal similar to those enjoyed by all other members of the Commonwealth Service. The failure to form a Staff Board for the Commonwealth . Railways employees leaves that section of the Commonwealth Service in a position in which its members have no right of appeal or protest against treatment that may be meted out to them by the head of their department, the Commissioner. It is a pity that Parliament should conclude its sittings without passing legislation to remove the disabilities which these men are suffering. The Prime Minister will recall that, in answer to a question I asked earlier in the sittings, he stated that legislation along the lines that I have suggested would be introduced at an early date. These men should be protected by the Government.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2487

NORTHERN TERRITORY (ADMINISTRATION) BILL 1938

Debate resumed from the 3rd May, 1939 (vide page 72), on motion by Mr.

Perkins -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- Ag this bill is not contentious, I do not intend to oppose it. We have read the Assistant Minister’s second-reading speech and we know that the bill has for its main object, the clearing up of doubts as to the validity of grants of land and leases of land made under the ordinances of the Northern Territory. I can see no objection to it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2488

SEAT OF GOVERNMENT (ADMINISTRATION) BILL 1938

Debate resumed from the 3rd May, 1939 (vide page 71), on motion by Mr.. Perkins; -

That tho hill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- This is another measure which the Opposition does not intend to oppose. It was introduced in order to remove some doubts that have arisen in regard to the validity of dealings in land in the Australian Capital Territory, and to alter certain provisions in relation to the commencing date of ordinances. The Assistant Minister was good enough to explain the bill to me, and I can see no objection to it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

.- I do not know what this bill contains; nor does any other honorable member. I am not inclined to accept it without question merely because it is being rushed through in the last hours of the sittings of the Parliament. The committee is entitled to some explanation of the contents of the measure.

Mr Perkins:

– The bill was before the House two or three months ago; a full explanation was given then.

Mr BARNARD:

– That may be so, hut honorable members have not been given sufficient notice to enable them to refresh their memories on the subject.

Mr Jolly:

– Will the Assistant Minis ter explain the new section 9a in clause 3?

Mr PERKINS:
Monaro - Assistant Minister · Eden · UAP

– Clause 3 proposes the insertion of a new section 9a, the object of which is to ensure that ordinances of the Australian Capital Territory relating to the disposal of Crown lands can be operated without their validity being questioned by reason of any inconsistency with section 57 of the Lands Acquisition Act 1906 of the Commonwealth.

Section 57 of the Lands Acquisition Act 1906 provides, inter alia, that all instruments, receipts and other documents in relation to land to which the Commonwealth is a party may be executed by the Attorney-General for and on behalf of the Commonwealth.

Mr WARD:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; LANG LAB from 1932; ALP from 1936

– Does that mean that the Government can sell land in the Australian Capital Territory?

Mr PERKINS:

– Canberra was formerly under the control of the Federal Capital Commission and the. act is being altered in accordance with the change of the method of governing the territory.

Mr CURTIN:
Leader of the Opposition · Fremantle

.- This bill does not alter any of the existing practices. That is to say, the leasehold system is not in any way affected by this legislation ?

Mr Perkins:

– That is so.

Mr CURTIN:

– The purpose of this legislation is to clear up legal difficulties that have arisen as the result of the transference of the control of the Australian Capital Territory from the Federal Capital Commission to a department.

Mr JOLLY:
Lilley

.- Notwithstanding what the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) has said, the marginal note definitely states “ power to dispose of “ land. To my way of thinking the disposal of land does not mean leasing land, because, if land is leased, you do not dispose of it. You only dispose of land when you sell it.

Mr Perkins:

– This is merely a validating measure to cover lands already leased.

Mr BARNARD:
Bass

.- It is all very well for the Assistant Minister to say that the bill has been in the hands of honorable members for a long time. That may be so, but the measure was placed at the bottom of the notice-paper and forgotten. The aspect which I wish to stress now is that this territory is governed too much by public servants instead of by Parliament. The control of this territory is vested in the Parliament, and it should be controlled by the Parliament, but members of Parliament do not take sufficient interest in the Federal Capital.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- This bill is quite innocuous. The principal act prohibits the alienation of land in fee-simple in the territory. This proposal is subject tothe principal act. Power is given to dispose of land and execute instruments and so on in accordance with any ordinance which may exist now or in the future. It is simply a machinery provision to enable transfers and the like to be carried out, but always subject to the principal provision that there must be no alienation of the freehold.

Bill agreed to and reported from committee without. amendment; report adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

Sitting suspended from 6.27 to 7.30 p.m.

page 2489

CANVAS AND DUCK BOUNTY BILL 1939

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. John Lawson) agreed to-

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to provide for the payment of a bounty on the production of canvas and duck.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. John Lawson and Mr. Harrison do prepare and bring in a bill bo carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. John Lawson, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
Minister for Trade and Customs · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to encourage the establishment of the cotton canvas and cotton duck industry in Australia. The cotton-weaving industry has been functioning in Australia for some years but its range of production is as yet limited, being confined principally to cotton tweeds, drills, and like cloths. The industry has, however, progressed steadily, and the stage has now been reached when further expansion may safely be undertaken. The next step in the local developmental programme is the production of cotton canvas and duck, materials for which the demand in Australia is sufficientlylarge to warrant economic production. The Tariff Board has exhaustively inquired into the prospects of this new development, and has formed the opinion that the manufacture of canvas and duck should be encouraged. A majority of the board considers a duty-cum-bounty system to be the best method of assisting the industry during the initial stages, and in. that opinion the Government concurs.

The purpose of the bill is to provide for the payment of bounty at the rate of 2½d. per lb., plus1d. a square yard, on all cotton canvas and cotton duck produced for sale within the Commonwealth. The bill will not operate until the production of canvas and duck on a commercial . scale is undertaken, and will continue for a period of three years, it being the intention that bounty payments will ultimately be supersededby protective duties as the industry progresses.

Concurrently with the operation of the bounty the existing revenue duties applicable to imported canvas and duck dutiable under customs tariff items 130b 1 a will be increased to1½d. a square yard, British preferential tariff, 5d. a square yard intermediate tariff, and 6½d. a square yard general tariff. The proposed duties, with the addition of the bounty rate decided upon, represent the measure of assistance which the industry will receive. This assistance, on an average, is equivalent to a little more than 4d. a square yard on cloths of United Kingdom origin, and is approximately 7½. a square yard on cloths of Japanese origin.

In the three years during which the proposed bounty will operate the additional import duties will yield sufficient revenue to meet bounty payments in full. These duties will not, however, unduly burden the costs of that proportion of Commonwealth requirements of canvas and duck which will need to be imported while the industry is in the developmental stage. It is apparent that the industry, during the early stages of production, will not be in a position to supply, even a large share of the Australian market, and that some years must elapse before full requirements are produced. The Tariff Board is firmly of the opinion that, if the industry is to be established on sound lines-, it should grow steadily, commencing with those lines for which there is a large demand, and expanding as opportunity offers. The proposals of the Government are designed to encourage development in this way, and it is intended that a review of the industry shall be made before the bounty periodexpires. It is anticipated that this industry, when firmly established, will provide employment in spinning and weaving activities for 1,500 operatives. The plans of several Australian cotton-weaving establishments for the production of this material are well advanced, and I anticipate that the near future will see production well in hand.

I wish to make it clear that the proposals which I have outlined relate only to canvas and duck woven wholly from cotton, and do not embrace other types, such as flax or jute canvas and duck. This bill marks a further important step in the development of the Australian textile industry and I commend it to honorable members.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- As this bill provides for a further step in the development of Australian secondary industries, and will increase the demand for Australian-grown cotton, the Opposition will support it. It is hoped that in Queensland and in some of the other States sufficient cotton will eventually be grown to supply the whole of Australia’s requirements of raw cotton. This bill, and also another measure, which, I understand, the Minister will introduce, will lead to the establishment of factories, one of which, I understand, will be situated in Brisbane, another in Adelaide, and another in Sydney. The Opposition gives to measures of this kind its heartiest support, believing that they will tend to provide increased employment in Australia.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2490

TYRE CORD BOUNTY BILL 1939

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Governor-General’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. John Lawson) agreed to-

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to provide for the payment of a bounty on the production of tyre cord and tyre cord fabric.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. John Lawson and Mr. Street do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. John Lawson, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill seeks to foster the manufacture in the Commonwealth of cord and cord fabric of the type used in the manufacture of pneumatic tires for vehicles. This material is used in large quantities in Australia, either in the form of cord or cord loosely woven to form a fabric, and constitutes the base or reinforcing material in pneumatic rubber tires. The Australian requirement approximates 7,000,000 lb. per annum, all of which is at present imported. One large Australian cotton spinner has installed machinery which is capable of producing this material. In addition, a local tire manufacturer has thoroughly investigated the possibilities and costs of manufacture in Australia.

The Tariff Board has furnished a report in connexion with this industry, and expressed the opinion that an effort to establish the manufacture of tire cord and tire cord fabric is justified.It has recommended payment of bounty at the rate of 3½d. per lb. on tire cord and fabric produced in Australia and sold to pneumatic tire manufacturers: . The board’s recommendations also involve -

  1. Admission of the imported material, at the outset, at rates of free, British preferential tariff, and 15 per cent. general tariff.
  2. A reduction of the rate of bounty to 3d. per lb. when the total bounty payments exceed the sum of £5,000 - when local production reaches the 350,000 lb., stage.
  3. Concurrently with the reduction of the rate of bounty, the customs duties to be increased to½d. per lb., British preferential tariff, and 2¾d. per lb., general tariff.

I point out that, subsequent to the date of the Tariff Board’s report, the Government decided, in order to obtain additional revenue, to increase the customs duty on imported tire cord and fabric. This increase formed part of the 1939-40 budget proposals, and operated from the 9th September last, the customs duties, including primage duty, on the material now being 10 per cent., British preferential tariff, 30 per cent. intermediate tariff and 35 per cent. general tariff.

The Government has decided to follow, in principle, the recommendations of the Tariff Board ; but, in view of the increased’ duties which are now operating, some reduction of the bounty rate has been deemed necessary in order to align the total- assistance accorded to the industry with that recommended by the Tariff Board. The bill provides for payment of bounty at the rate of 2¼d. per lb. on tire cord and tire cord fabric produced in the Commonwealth, the total bounty payments during the first year of operation to be limited to £3,250. When bounty payments reach that figure - when production exceeds 350,000 lb. - the rate of bounty will be reduced by½d. to1¾d. per lb. and at the same time the existing customs duties will be increased by½d. per lb. The bill will not operate until tire cord and tire cord fabric of satisfactory quality are produced on a commercial basis in the Commonwealth, and will continue for a period of three years, prior to the expiration of which the question of the assistance to the industry will be reviewed.

The total amount of bounty payable under the bill is limited to £3,250 during the first year of its operation, to £11,000 in the second year, and to £27,000 in the third year. These amounts, it is anticipated, will be sufficient to meet all bounty claims, as the industry must necessarily develop gradually. The scheme envisages the production under a bounty-cum-duty system of one-half of the Commonwealth’s requirements of this material within three years from the establishment of the industry. The proposals of the Government provide that bounty payments shall be met partly from the increased duties to be imposed on imported tire cord and fabric, and partly from revenue. The contemplated increase of the duty by id. per lb. is so moderate, however, that it will not unduly raise the cost of that proportion of Australia’s requirements of these goods which will need to be, imported during the initial stages of the industry. The object of the bill is to provide for a further expansion of Australian cotton spinning and weaving activities, and 1 therefore commend it to honorable members.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- The Opposition consistently supports legislation of this kind. We believe that it will render valuable assistance toan industry which is likely to develop in a big way, and provide employment for a great many people.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Maribyrnong

– I appreciate the action of the Government in bringing in this bill. It is a necessary measure. I believe, however, that assistance should also be given in the direction of improving the kind of webbing and cord used in the manufacture oftires. We have here a golden opportunity to do something to assist the flax-growing industry, which could furnish a better material than is being used now. It is a pity that this bill was not brought in earlier so that honorable members might have had an opportunity to debate it fully. There is a possibility here of developing a big industry which would do much to provide employment in Australia, and would become an exporting industry also, thus helping to improve our trade balance abroad. This aspect of the matter was touched upon by the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) this morning.’ The growing of flax could be made an adjunct to dairying and other primary industries. I have had supplied to me many particulars by the associated flax-growers’ organization in Melbourne, but there is no opportunity now for going into details. At a later stage, I hope, we shall be able to do so. The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research has interested itself in this matter, and there is no reason why flaxgrowing should not be taken up in place of some crops which are to-day unpayable. Members of the Country party should interest themselves more actively in this matter. Flax is the best basis for the cordand webbing used in the manufacture of tires, and the flax-growing industry should be encouraged.

Mr BARNARD:
Bass

.- I support the measure, and endorse the remarks of the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) regarding the advisability of fostering the flax-growing industry in Australia. Several honorable members made representations on this subject to the Acting Minister for Supply and Development (Sir Frederick Stewart) only this morning. We have here an. opportunity to develop an important primary industry that would be of great value to Australia. Members of the Country party, in particular, should use their influence with the Government to foster the industry.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

. - in reply - I commend the laudable enthusiasm of the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) and the honorable member for Bass (Mr. Barnard) for the development of the flaxgrowing industry. In reply, I point out that this bill provides that the bounty shall be payable on tire cord, whether manufactured from cotton or from flax.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate.

page 2492

CUSTOMS TARIFF VALIDATION BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. John Lawson) - by leave - agreed to.

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to provide for the validation of collections of duties of Customs under Customs Tariff Proposals.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

. - by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to validate until the 6th June, 1940, the duties embodied in Customs Tariff Proposals No. 15 of the 6th December 1939. In view of the fact that honorable members have not had sufficient time to consider fully these tariff proposals, the Government has decided that it would be preferable in the interests of all concerned to defer the debate until Parliament next meets. I. therefore, urge honorable members to accept the bill without debate.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- In the circumstances, the Opposition will not oppose this measure. We should have liked more notice of the bill, so that we could have had an opportunity to discuss some of the items in the schedule, particularly glycerine, which, according to the revised duties, may now be imported free from. Great Britain, and from other countries on the payment of a duty of 15 per cent. We believe that there is no justification for the reduction of duty. Glycerine is manufactured in two factories in Victoria, three in New South Wales and three in Queensland. The soap manufacturing industry, of which glycerine is a by-product, is established in every State of Australia, and provides the chief market for tallow and copra, which are produced in Australia and in its mandated territories. The soap industry is a very important one, and we cannot afford to do anything which would give a setback to its subsidiary industries. It provides employment for 2,500 people and pays wages, each year, amounting to £500,000, while it uses raw material to the value of £1,800,000. I believe that the committee should reject the proposal to abolish the duty on glycerine imported from Great Britain. However, we have not had an opportunity to consider the matter fully, and so I do not oppose the proposal of the Government at this stage, because we shall have an opportunity to vote on it later.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– I do not understand the meaning of clause 3 of this bill, in which reference is made to the dissolution of the House of Representatives before the 6th June. 1 understood from the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson), when I discussed the matter with him a little while ago, ‘that all he wanted was to validate the collection of customs until the 6th June next. While the word “ dissolution” remains in the clause, I shall not support it. That word must come out. There seems to be something here which ought to be explained.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Maribyrnong

– One of the largest factories engaged in the production, of glycerine is situated in my electorate, and I have received an urgent telegram asking me to protest against the reduction, of duty, especially as the report of the Tariff Board on the matter has not yet been made available. I am not suggesting that the report is favorable to the retention of the duty, because the Government, in bringing in this proposal, is evidently acting on the recommendation of the board. Glycerine is used largely by the Defence Department in the manufacture of explosives, and is sold to the department well below duty-free parity. Glycerine used by other manufacturers is sold at a price slightly below dutypaying parity. Therefore, I do not think there is any reason for allowing glycerine to he imported duty free. If the war were to end suddenly, this industry would have to struggle for its existence, and the employment of 2,500 people would be jeopardized. I trust that Parliament will have an opportunity at a later time to discuss the matter fully, and, in the meantime, I register my protest against the action of the Government in reducing the duty.

Mr CURTIN:
Leader of the Opposition · Fremantle

– The Opposition is prepared to agree to the passage of this bill provided that clause 3 is amended by omitting the words “whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and”. I presume that the bill was hurriedly drafted and that it followed the usual custom of providing for the contingency of a dissolution. There can be no reason why those words should be included.

Mr ANTHONY:
Richmond

.- It is necessary that the words referred to by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) shall be deleted. Probably this hill was drafted before a certain vote was taken last Tuesday. The danger of a dissolution has now been removed, fortunately or unfortunately, according to the outlook of individual members. If the clause is amended no doubt honorable members will face the recess with a greater degree of enjoyment than would otherwise be the case.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

. - in reply - This bill was hurriedly drafted within the last hour or so, and has just been received from the Government Printing Office. It was drafted in strict conformity with the usual wording of such bills when introduced during the last year of the life of a parliament, and for that reason provided for the possibility of a dissolution. I have no objection whatever to the amendment suggested by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) .

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3

All duties of Customs demanded or collected (whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and on or before thesixth day of June, One thousand nine hundred and forty) shall be deemed to have been lawfully imposed and lawfully demanded or collected.

Amendment (by Mr. John Lawson) agreed to -

That the following words be omitted: - “ (whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and) “.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with an amendment; report, - by leave - adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2494

CUSTOMS TARIFF (EXCHANGE ADJUSTMENT) VALIDATION BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. John Lawson) - by leave - agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to provide for the validation of adjustments in duties of customs under Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Proposals.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

. - by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This bill seeks to validate until the 6th June, 1940, the amendments proposed in respect of the Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Act 1933-39 and embodied in Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Proposals No. 7 introduced into this House on the 6th December, 1939. The bill is complementary to the Customs Tariff Validation Bill, which honorable members have just accepted. I therefore urge its acceptance by honorable members.

Mr Paterson:

– I presume that this bill will also be amended in clause 3, like the Customs Tariff Validation Bill 1939 just passed.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Yes.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3-

Any alteration in the variations of duties of customs . . . made (whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and . . . ) shall be deemed to have been lawfully made . . .

Amendment (by Mr. John Lawson) proposed -

That the words, “ whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and” be omitted.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– I am prepared to agree to this amendment, but I call the attention of members of the Government to the fact that once upon a time a man named John Diamond wrote a paper, entitled “On a man’s keeping memoirs of himself “. Shortly after this Government assumed office it caused to be published a statement to the effect that the country would, no doubt, be particularly pleased that methodical and businesslike methods would thereafter apply to the transaction of parliamentary business. I suggest that during the recess the members of the Government should refer to that statement.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with an amendment; report - by leave - adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a third time.

page 2494

CUSTOMS TARIFF (CANADIAN PREFERENCE) VALIDATION BILL 1939

Motion (by Mr. John Lawson) - by leave - agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to provide for the validation of collections of duties of customs under Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) Proposals.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The object of this bill is to validate until the 6th June, 1940, the duties embodied in Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) Proposals No. 5 introduced into the House of Representatives on the 6th December, 1939. In view of the fact that honorable members have had so little time to study the proposals it is considered desirable to postpone consideration of the proposed alterations until such time as the House reassembles. I therefore urge honorable members to accept the bill without debate.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Cl auses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 -

All duties of Customs demanded . . . (whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and . . . ) shall be deemed to have been lawfully imposed . . .

Amendment (by Mr. John Lawson) agreed to -

That the words “ (whether before the dissolution of the present House of Representatives or at or after that dissolution and . . )” be omitted.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with an ‘ amendment; report - by leave - adopted.

Bill - by leave - read a. third time.

page 2495

COMMONWEALTH ELECTORAL BILL 1939

Second Reading

Mr PERKINS:
Monaro - Minister in charge of External Territories · Eden · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

While this bill contains a considerable number of clauses, the provisions embodied in it may roughly be grouped in four sections. The first relates particularly to the introduction of new proposals affecting the form of the Senate ballotpaper, and the method of determining the order in which the Senate groups and the names of candidates generally shall be placed on the ballot-papers. . The second provides for the simplification of the directions on the ballot-papers and the saving of slightly imperfect votes, with the object of bringing about a reduction of the number of informalities. The third comprises proposals for the extension of postal voting facilities, mainly for the purpose of easing the difficulties of time and distance in the case of the outback voter. The fourth comprises a series of more or less formal machinery amendments designed to remedy certain omissions from the existing law, or to improve and facilitate the administrative functions.

With regard to elections for the Senate, it is proposed to replace the existing vertical style of ballot-paper with one on which the names of the candidates in the groups will be placed side by side in horizontal fashion. It is proposed also that, in respect of the groups, the designation of the party represented by the candidates will be printed on the ballotpapers for the information and guidance of electors. The bill further provides that the order in which the respective groups are to be placed on the ballotpapers shall be determined by a draw publicly conducted by the Commonwealth Electoral Officer immediately after the close of nominations. This, it is considered, will provide a much more equitable method of determining ballot-paper placement than the existing system of arrangement by alphabetical calculation, inasmuch as the chances of each and every group will be fairly and squarely equalized. The adoption of this proposal will remove entirely any advantage or any handicap that may be derived merely from the possession of a particular name and, in consequence, will act as a restraint on any tendency that might develop in the selection of candidates of placing a premium on those nominees whose names happen to commence with an early letter of the alphabet, lt is intended that the names of candidates not included in. any group will continue to appear on the ballot-papers after the groups as at present, but with the difference that, whereas those names hitherto have been placed in alphabetical sequence, it is proposed in future that the order in which they are to appear also will be determined by draw. With regard to the names of the candidates within the respective groups, the bill provides that candidates forming a group may, if they so desire, mutually agree upon the order in which their names are to appear, and if they so agree and notify the Commonwealth Electoral Officer accordingly, their names shall be placed on the ballot-papers in the order so agreed upon. This is considered to be a reasonable provision since, as the law empowers candidates mutually to form a group, it seems logical that it should permit them, where they so desire, mutually to determine the order in which their- names shall appear in the group. Where candidates in a group fail to notify any agreed order, a draw will be made by the Commonwealth Electoral Officer and the names placed on the ballot-papers in the order as drawn. It is provided in the bill that the system of determination of placement by draw shall apply also to the names of the candidates at House of Representatives elections. If this proposal is adopted the Divisional Returning Officer will, in each case, at the close of nominations, publicly make a draw, and the names of the candidates will appear on the ballot-papers as so drawn. The justification for the proposed method lies, it is believed, in its strict fairness. Each candidate will be given an equal chance as far as ballot-paper position is concerned, irrespective of the name he bears. If his name commences with the letter A he will obtain no greater advantage or suffer no greater handicap than if it commenced with the letter Z.

Included in the bill is a proposal designed to reduce informalities by saving votes which, although not completely marked, are so marked as to comply substantially with the mandatory provisions of the law and to indicate beyond reasonable doubt the intention of the voter. The proposal is that, in the case of both Senate and House of Representatives elections, votes shall be admitted where the voter, having correctly indicated his preferences for all the candidates except one, has left blank the square opposite the name of that candidate. It is considered that, in such case, it is a reasonable assumption that the voter’s preference for the candidate against whose name he has made no mark is in reality his last, and that it would be perfectly safe to accept the vote on that understanding. In addition the bill provides that the directions to voters on the ballot-paper forms in the schedule to the act be made variable to meet each particular case so that they may be couched in more direct and unequivocal terms. By this means it is hoped that the directions will be more clearly comprehended by voters and that, as the result, there will be a higher proportion of effectivelymarked votes and, of course, a consequential reduction of informal votes.

With the principal object of assisting electors “in isolated areas to overcome the difficulties of time and distance, the bill contains provisions extending the facilities associated with the recording of postal votes. It is proposed that the period within which an application for a postal vote may be made shall be advanced by ten days, that is, that the application may be made and sent at any time after the tenth day prior to the issue of the writ, instead of as at present after the issue of the writ. This should prove of material benefit to electors in outback areas where mails are infrequent. It is further proposed in the case of remote subdivisions, such as those embracing the Kimberley district of Western Australia, that resident electors may obtain postal voting papers from the registrar for the subdivision instead of, as has been necessary in the past, from a far-away divisional returning officer. It is proposed also, that postal votes received by the returning officer up to seven days after polling day shall be accepted for scrutiny where the returning officer is satisfied that such votes were actually recorded and posted prior to the close of the poll. This was recommended by the Joint Committee on Commonwealth Electoral Law and Procedure in 1926-27 in the following terms: -

Having considered this matter very carefully the committee is of opinion ~ that an extension of time for receiving postal votes of seven days should be allowed provided that the envelope containing the ballot-paper bears a clear impression of a postal date stamp not later than the polling day.

The adoption of the proposal recommended will save many votes which, although posted prior to the close of the poll, do not reach the returning officer until .after polling day. This particularly applies to the votes of electors in outlying parts from whence mails take some days to reach the returning officer’s head-quarters, and to the votes of electors absent from their home States.

Two other proposals relating to postal voting are included in the bill. The first is that the word “ elector “ in sub-section 2 of section 85 of the principal act shall be deemed to include a person enrolled on the roll of electors for the Australian Capital Territory, or the Northern Territory, so that such a person may witness the postal vote application of an elector of a State who happens to be visiting the territory concerned. At present electors residing in territories are not electors within the meaning of the Electoral Act, and because of that are not qualified to witness the postal vote application of a State elector. Electors visiting the Australian Capital Territory on the occasion of past elections have caustically criticized the law which debars the highest official in Canberra from witnessing a postal vote application., while any elector in Queanbeyan could do so. The second provision merely adds the secretaries of hospitals to the list of authorized witnesses before whom a postal vote may be recorded. The addition of hospital secretaries to the list has. been strongly advocated by the executive committee of the Country Hospitals Association of Victoria, and because of the official status of such persons their inclusion is favoured by the department.

To improve the general effectiveness of the electoral law itis proposed in this bill to add two new machinery sections. The first applies conditions to election propaganda broadcast from radio stations similar to those already existing in relation to like matter published in the press. It is proposed that any such propaganda broadcast during an election or referendum campaign must include the name and address of the author thereof. The second proposal prohibitsany officer or scrutineer from wearing or displaying in a polling booth on polling day any emblem or badge of a candidate or political party. This proposal is similar to one embodied in the Queensland Elections Act and is considered a logical and reasonable extension of the existing provisions which prohibit in polling booths the soliciting of votes, the exhibition of any unauthorized sign, or any attempt by a scrutineer to influence any elector in relation to his vote. The object of . the proposal is further to ensure a proper atmosphere of impartiality within the polling booths so that electors may record their votes absolutely free from party suggestion or influence.

The remaining amendments covered by the bill are of a formal character only. These have as their purpose the remedying of some omission or the improvement of the administrative functions. Summarized briefly, the proposals are that the provision in the law relating to the formal appointment of assistant returning officers at elections shall be made applicable in like manner to a referendum; that the sub-section authorizing the preparation and printing of a supplemental roll for a general election be made applicable also to by-elections and referendums ; that the second proviso to paragraphb of sub-section 1 of section 47 of the principal act be omitted because, while it now serves no useful purpose, it involves a considerable wastage of time, labour and expense which might more profitably be employed in other directions; that in the disputed elections part of the act the provision relating to the making of rules of court be brought up to date and that it be set out by whom the petition may be signed, and the period within which it may be lodged, in the case of a petition disputing the choice Or appointment of a senator, by the Parliament or Governor of a State under section fifteen of the Constitution; and, lastly, the substitution of the word “ person “ for the word’ “ elector “ in section 216 of the principal act so as to widen the applicability and ensure the effectiveness of the section.

I submit the bill to the House and urge its speedy passage, confident in the belief that all honorable members will appreciate that . the provisions embodied in this measure represent an honest and straightforward attempt to improve the impartiality and general effectiveness of our electoral law.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Curtin) adjourned.

page 2497

PRICES CONTROL

Ministerial statement.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– by leave - On the 1st December, the right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page) asked me whether I would have a statement prepared showing increases of prices in the first three months of the war in 191.4, and in the first three months of this war, in order to show the relative value of the methods adopted on each occasion to control prices.

Retail prices of foodstuffs in Australia increased in the period from August to October, 1939, by 1.9 per cent., while wholesale prices rose by 6.5 per cent. These results compare most favorably with the movements in prices in other countries. For example, in the United Kingdom retail prices have risen 11.6 per cent. and wholesale prices 25 per cent. above pre-war levels. In Canada, which offers a more satisfactory basis of comparison with Australia, the increase of retail prices is 6.1 per cent. compared with 1.9 per centin Australia. In wholesale prices Canada showed a rise of 11.8 per cent, compared with 6.5 per cent, in Australia.

In the fourth quarter of 1914 retail prices had risen by 1 per cent, over the level of the third quarter and wholesale prices by 3.3 per cent. These increases are less than those experienced in this war, but investigations show that any inference from such a comparison concerning the effectiveness of prices control is bound to be misleading, because the conditions were totally different in the two periods mentioned. In 1914 there was considerable disorganization of world markets at the outbreak of war and, as the result, the prices of many basic commodities fell in the first three months. The Economist in a review of the effects of the war on commodity prices in December, 1914, remarked that “markets were closed right and left, and even where they were nominally open, quotations were for a time so irregular and nominal as to possess little real importance “.

In this war the prices of most basic commodities rose immediately, and this was reflected in the index number of export prices for Australia which rose from 65.8 in August to 77.4 on the 16th November, an increase of 17 per cent. Such an increase must of necessity raise internal prices. Another significant difference between this war and the last is the movement of exchange rates. In the early months of the last war the exchange rates moved in favour of the United Kingdom and the dominions. The sterling dollar rate was up to five dollars to the £1, and at the beginning of November, 1914, was still 4.90 dollars, a few points above par. On this occasion there was an immediate fall of the sterling dollar exchange rate by 15 per cent., and this automatically increased the Australian prices of all imports from non-sterling countries. I should add, moreover, that although price movements in Australia were slight in the early months of the last war, they began to rise very rapidly thereafter and by August, 1915, the increase above July, 1934, was no less than 40 per cent. It is to prevent the repetition of this great increase of the cost of living that the Government has introduced a scheme of prices control.

page 2498

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following bills reported : -

Ship Bounty Bill 1930. Loan Bill (No. 2) 1939. National Oil Proprietary Limited Agreement Bill 193!).

Sitting suspended from 7.57 to 0.50 p.m.

page 2498

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate without amendment or requests : -

Appropriation (Works and Buildings) Bill

1939-40.

Appropriation Bill 1939-40. Motor Vehicle Engine Bounty Bill 1939. Raw Cotton Bounty Bill (No. 2) 1939. Postal Rates (Defence Forces) Bill 1939. Defence Bill (No. 3) 1939. Commonwealth Public Service Bill (No. 2^

Air Force Bill 1939.

Supply and Development Bill (No. 3) 1939.

Canvas and Duck Bounty Bill 1939.

Tyre Cord Bounty Bill 1939.

Customs Tariff Validation Bill 1939.

Customs Tariff (Exchange Adjustment) Validation Bill 1939.

Customs Tariff (Canadian Preference) Validation Bill 1939.

page 2498

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

Motion (by Mr. Menzies) agreed to -

That leave of absence be given to every member of the House of Representatives from the determination of this sitting of the House to the date of its next sitting.

page 2498

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · UAP

– I move-

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until a date and hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker, which time of meeting shall he notified by Mr. Speaker to each member by telegram or letter.

The Leader of the Opposition- (Mr. Curtin) has asked me to indicate a? far as possible when it is expected that the House will meet again. I anticipate that Parliament will re-assemble not later than the first week of April, as I see it at present, the Srd April, which is the Wednesday of the first week in that month.

Quezon resolved in the, affirmative.

page 2499

ADJOURNMENT

Valedictory - Dental SuppliesBarley Bags.

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · UAP

.- I move-

That the House do now adjourn.

I take the opportunity that this season of the year presents to offer my very good wishes and the good wishes of the Government to honorable members generally and to all of those who have contributed to the success of our work during this year. I am under very great obligations as a newly-installed Prime Minister to my colleagues in the Cabinet and to my supporters for havingenabled me to escape, perhaps, with somewhat less discredit than might otherwise have been the case. In addition to expressing my appreciation of them, I should like to offer a word of appreciation to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin). I have no doubt that on many matters that have arisen, and will arise, in parliamentary and political conflict, I shall find myself in sharp opposition to my friend the Leader of the Opposition; but I am bound to say that I can hardly imagine an Opposition Leader who could conduct the affairs of the Opposition and co-operate in matters of real substance in the House as effectively as the honorable member for Fremantle. I appreciate, as he knows from my private expressions, his constant courtesy and good temper and sense of fairness, and nobody has more reason to appreciate those qualities than a man who finds ‘himself, in unexpected circumstances, Prime Minister of the country at a time of great difficulty. I also offer good wishes to the members of the Opposition. I find that, so long as I am on the Government side of the House, and they are on the Opposition side of the House, our personal relations are magnificent; I merely throw that out as a hint because I should like those relations to continue. I also offer the greetings of the season to the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron). He, like myself, is almosta novice at the business of leadership, but I take the opportunity tosay that I have reason to appreciate the many courtesies extended by him. and I have no doubt that the personal good relations that we have always had will continue. To you, Mr. Speaker, all of us offer our congratulations and our thanks. It is true, and you would be the last to deny it, that from time to time, as day’ succeeds day, you have occasion to look reproachfully at one honorable member or another, but every honorable member, I am quite sure, appreciates your calmness and your fairness and the magnificent way in which you have upheld the dignity of this House and the traditions of your office. We extend also our thanks to the Chairman of Committees. He is occasionally somewhat more controversial than yourself, Mr. Speaker, but we congratulate him and thank him for his work, as we also thank the Temporary Chairmen who relieve him and yourself from time to time. We have a specialobligation to offer our thanks to the parliamentary staff from Mr. Green down. Sometimes we attempt to delude ourselves at this table that we have really obtained mastery of the forms of the House, but our mastery consists in our ability to hear what Mr. Green whisper’s to us from time to time. We thank him and his colleagues. We offer our good wishes to all members of the parliamentary service, attendants, the refreshment-room staff, the Librarian and his staff, and we, with lawful expectation of favours to come, thank members of the Mansard staff, who early in their lives so master Nesfield’s grammar and composition that they have been able to cope with members of Parliament successfully ever since. They improve us, and we are always delighted to be improved. I should like, as a member of the Government, to express my appreciation of the work of the Parliamentary Draftsmen. They are not always remembered. They work in silence and, critics have said, occasionally in darkness. Anybody who has been one of the law officers of the Crown, as I have, will know the speed and skill exhibited by members of the drafting staff. This recital would not, be complete if it did not mention our obligation to the Whips.

Mr Curtin:

– It. is the happiest day for the Whips when they have no more whipping to do.

Mr MENZIES:

– Their happiest day is unquestionably the last day of the session.I am sorry to think that the Whip of the Opposition, who is, as honorable members know, although I have endeavoured to keep it dark, a personal friend of mine, i3 not here to receive these congratulations. Finally, I desire to refer to the members of the Press Gallery, who usually, in my experience, most adequately report the speeches of others. Professionally, I have my ideas about them from time to time, but, personally, I am happy to say, whatever any other honorable member can say, that we are extremely fortunate in the kind of men who sit in the Press Gallery here, and in the confidence that we are able uniformly to repose in them, particularly on matters involving secrecy. I hope that from this list I have not omitted somebody who should have been mentioned. If I have, I desire to make these thanks as -wide and comprehensive as possible.

Before sitting down I desire to say this : . Although . we have succeeded, as I hope we always shall succeed, in extracting some life and gaiety from the work of the session,; it is still true that we have conducted our sittings in recent months, in a -great shaddow, a shadow which has made its presence felt constantly with every honorable member and every person in the community. I know that I am expressing the views of every honorable member, whatever his political outlook may be, when I say that we have no greater wish than that, when the next Christmas season comes round, whoever is then occupying this chair and is making a speech to those who may then be m the Parliament, he will be able to address them in circumstances of renewed peace and goodwill in the world.

Mr CURTIN:
Leader of the Opposition · Fremian tie

– I, too, . share every sentiment that the right honorable the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) has expressed. No doubt he is under a great obligation to his colleagues, and, I should say, to his supporters also. He himself has said that he is under an obligation to the House. I think that it can be said that, the House has been discriminating in its outlook, while, at the same time, doing its best to facilitate the conduct of Australia’s war effort. There has been, I venture to say, in no part of the House any disposition to be merely obstructionist, al’.hough there has been a realiza tion of the obvious duty to be critical, and to make certain that what is proposed is the best thing that should be done. Furthermore, there has been a desire to make clear that, although the executive responsibility belongs to the Government, as does also the responsibility for the formulation of policy, yet the Parliament itself has the right to say whether the Government is, or is not, to continue in office, or whether it is to be given authority to carry out the plan that it has in mind.

I have to express to the Prime Minister my appreciation of the manner in which he has handled the affairs of the country during the last three months. I believe that they could have been handled better if the people had made a different choice at the last election; but that is entirely beside the point; the fact is that this responsibility has come to the right honorable gentleman. It would be niggardly on my part, and it would be captious on the part of any one else, to deny that he has been unsparing in his devotion to bis work. He has a remarkable equipment in himself for the discharge of his onerous duties, and he has displayed notable qualities in its performance. We can say quite truthfully that, regardless of what party has been in power, the leadership of Australia during recent years, so far as any of us in this Parliament can recall the circumstances, has been of a standard which ought to give the utmost satisfaction to the citizens of this country. That standard has not been impaired at all since the elevation of the right honorable gentleman to the Prime Ministership. I wish him health and strength, so long as he continues in office, to do his duty to Australia. I say to him now, as I have said from the time that the war commenced, that upon the fundamental issues as between the policy of my party and that of the Government, there will be no compromise on our part. We stand for a certain outlook as being the proper one to be adopted by Australia towards the problems of the world. I shall not argue that matter here. We leave it to this Parliament to decide as between” the Government and ourselves, and where this Parliament is incapable of deciding we shall leave it to the country. But the decision having been. given, whether by the Parliament or the country, we accept it, and we then say that the responsibility is the Government’s, and that the degree of our capacity to be useful and helpful in carrying on the business of the country is the standard which we conceive to be our duty.

I hope that -whatever may be the dark future into which we now look, there will come to the world a New Year’s gift of peace and honour, and a return to what I shall call common sense. When all is said and done, there can be no victories in this war in the sense that one country will triumph over another, unless that victory has associated with it an appreciation by the people who are victorious that, only by having due regard for the welfare and happiness of the vanquished, will the world really gain. If the leaders of those countries which have resorted to force and aggression will listen to even the twittering of a bird in a thunderstorm, then I say from this place in which sits the leader of an alternative form of government, that they should have regard for the interest of civilization, and particularly of Western Europe, the cradle of all that is great and splendid in the heritage of mankind. It is tragic that great cities should be demolished and the treasures that are in them destroyed simply because there has been this resort to aggression and force. I know that it is absurd to expect peace until such time as those who have been responsible for the policy of Germany change their outlook, hut I do believe that any voice, however humble, that is raised for right is not wasted, and in that hope I have spoken.

To you, Mr. Speaker, and to your officers, I tender my thanks, and those of the Opposition, for your invariable courtesy and helpfulness. You have sometimes had to rebuke some of us, and the decision of the umpire must be respected. For yourself, we have not only a great deal of admiration, but also a great measure of affection. In regard to your clerks, I echo everything that the Prime Minister has said, with this qualification : Frequently I find that it is my duty to try to outmatch, not only the Prime Minister, but the Clerk as well, and it is a formidable combination. I have, upon occasion, even had the temerity to try to outwit you. It is like trying to do something on the football field when the umpire is not looking - one may get away with it once, but not often. I hope that your holiday will be a pleasant one, and that when it is over you will come back full of health and strength. I hope also that when the Parliament has run its course, you -will be able to look back with pleasure upon a record of distinguished service.

I also desire to thank the members of the Hansard staff for the work they have done, and during the last fortnight they have had a great deal to do. We all appreciate the conscientious and able way in which, they have discharged their duties. ‘

To the Leader of the Country party (Mr, Archie Cameron) and to hig deputy (Mr, Thorby), I extend my utmost goodwill and friendship. There are’ occasions when we have to hit each other hard, but I think of the old sporting principle that, when all is said and done, there are rules of the game, and one can win or lose as the fortunes of the game may go without any diminution of respect for one’s opponents. The Leader of the Country party is a forthright Australian. He hits very hard, and I have felt the weight of his blows. I confess that I have some- times felt an urge to hit equally as hard. He gets in one good blow in the session, which is a very heavy one, but I feel that the number of lesser blows which I am able to give him have ultimately a more devastating effect. I think it ‘ would be ungracious at this moment to overlook the right honorable member for Cowper (Sir Earle Page) who, during the early part of this year, led the Country party, and to whom I now offer the hope that he will have a very happy Christmas. To my friends and former colleagues of the press, I extend my good wishes, and, such is the immensity of my goodwill, that I extend to their executives - I refer to their newspapers - the utmost thanks for the way they do whatever it is that they do do.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BarkerLeader of the Country party

– May I be permitted also to express to the Government, on behalf of my party, many thanks for the many courtesies they have extended to us during the rather troublesome few weeks. we have spent in Canberra this period of the session. Differences of opinion have at times been fairly acute, but being a party of particularly pacific inclinations, imbued with a spirit of compromise, we have gone to the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) on many occasions, and have always been given a very good hearing. Sometimes we may not have got all that we expected, but that is by the way. On behalf of my party, I sincerely tender to members of the Ministry our sincere good wishes, and our equally sincere thanks for the many courtesies they have extended to us.

With regard to the concluding remarks of the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) , I do not know what I have done on any occasion really to annoy him.

Mr Curtin:

– The honorable member has never annoyed me.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– I assure the Leader of the Opposition that I certainly have no desire to annoy or hurt him, and I will say in his favour that he has taken a very great weight off my mind. For a considerable time past he has been assuring this House that members of his party wanted nothing more than an appeal to the people. When I pointed out to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. John Lawson) that a certain bill contained the word “ dissolution “, the alacrity with which the Opposition insisted that it should be removed as quickly as possible restored the Leader to my good grace and confidence. I realize that, after all, during the earlier part of this week the honorable gentleman may have been a much misunderstood man.

I appreciate the many kindnesses shown to me by the Leader of the Opposition, the Deputy Leader (Mr. Forde), and all members of the Labour party. Although politically we cannot mix, nevertheless we realize that there are some very fine fellows on the Opposition side, despite the fact that their ideas regarding how this country should be run are different from ours. I leave it at that.

To yourself, Mr. Speaker, I extend the thanks of the Country party. I do not know why it is that I personally seem to be fated to get into holts with the Speaker now and again. There seems to be something about Speakers that I cannot understand. I know that you, sir, cannot help it. Possibly it is a case of “ Whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth “. There may be members of my party who have deserved chastening, but I am perfectly certain that one of such an angelic temperament as myself could never deserve it.

I also extend felicitations on behalf of the Country party to the Clerk of the House, Mr. Green, and his assistants, and to all officers of the parliamentary service, including the Parliamentary Draftsmen, whose mastery of the English language is such that they are able to prove, in legal phraseology, that black is white, red is green, blue is yellow, and yellow is no .colour at all.

Mr Menzies:

– To mc it all sounds like a tartan tie.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:

– That may be so after a session such as the one we are just closing. Then we have our friends of the press. I get on well with the press. If it were not for the press I would not know what to do with myself at times. When I get up in the morning - not too early these days - and get hold of the newspapers, I find out the things I actually said the day before and the motives which prompted me in saying or doing certain things, and feel that, for a good part of my existence, I apparently live two lives. It will be awkward if some day I am not able to sort out the life I think I am living from the one I appear to be living in the view of the press.

We close to-night a period of the session which has been conducted under conditions of great difficulty. The problems of the world are very serious. We have not yet seen the curtain raised on even the first great act in this war. I realize that it may be vitally necessary for us to be about this building somewhere towards the opening of the European spring. In the meantime, and remembering the date appointed by the

Prime Minister for the next meeting of the Parliament, I, on behalf of the members of the Country party, wish Ministers, the members of the United Australia and Labour parties, the Whips, the Chairman of Committees, the temporary Chairmen of Committees, yourself Mr. Speaker, and your staff a very merry Christmas, a happy New Year, and it seems as though I may also add, a joyous Easter.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon G J Bell:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

In the first place, on my own behalf, I thank sincerely the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies), the Leader of the Opposition (Mt. Curtin) and the Leader of the Country party (Mr. Archie Cameron) for the very kind things they have said about me. 1 wish I had the disposition of the Leader of the Country party instead of my own, because he is so certain always that he is right, whereas I am often afraid that I may be wrong. However, I realize that I can never hope to give complete satisfaction ; but I do appreciate very much the kindness of all honorable members, and the assistance they have given to me. On behalf of the Chairman of Committees, the Temporary Chairmen, the officers of the House and tlie whole of the parliamentary staff, I express my thanks for the generous tributes that have been paid. No one, not even the Prime Minister, knows as well as I do the assistance which the clerks of the House and the officers generally give to all of us. I am sure that, were it not for their very great efficiency, their earnestness and their invariable courtesy, we would not show up quite so well in our work as we do. The Parliament generally appreciates what they have done and will continue to do. I reciprocate the kind wishes for Christmas and New Year on their behalf as well as my own. I sincerely hope that all members will enjoy a happy recess and that they will come back with the same old vigour. Although the Leader of the Country party has referred to speakers as people to whom he is fated to get into- “ holts “ with, he and I have not had any serious differences: my relations with him and his party, as, indeed, with all parties, have been good. This, I know, is not due to any special qualities in myself. I thank all honorable members very sincerely, and I trust that we all shall meet again, perhaps in happier circumstances. I try to understand honorable members; I know they have a job to do and try to do it well.

Mr JENNINGS:
Watson

.- I regret the necessity to mention the matter at this late hour of the session, but it is the only opportunity which I shall have, before the adjournment of Parliament for the Christmas recess, to reply to a serious statement contained in. a question asked yesterday by the honorable member for Calare (Mr. Thorby) regarding the supplies of dental materials in Australia. The honorable gentleman implied that a close combine was controlling supplies to the detriment of dentists and retail distributors. It is to be regretted that such statements were made yesterday by the honorable member for Calare. There is not the slightest foundation for thom. Although the honorable member did not give the name of his informant, it is necessary to refer to this matter in order that reputable Australian trading firms, many of whom have been established for more than 50 years, with branches in Sydney, Melbourne and other Australian capitals, and have built up a goodwill by fair trading and service, should not have their honour and reputation impugned through such implications. The Minister has stated correctly that with other commodities dental goods are subject to price control under the National Security regulations. There has been a full inquiry into costs and prices of dental goods, in both Sydney and Melbourne as well as other centres, and it has been established by the Prices Commissioner that prices were raised on goods affected only by the American and- foreign exchange rate of 15 per cent. Freight and insurance charges were not allowed for. The goods affected by the increase represent only about one-third of the total. As a matter of fact, goods of British and Australian manufacture, and many American goods, are the same price to-day as at the 31st August, although it can be anticipated that British goods may increase, in view of rising costs due to war risk, freight anil insurance charges. This, of course, can only be done by consent of the pricefixing authority.

The Prices Commissioner established that in the first weeks of the war a number of dentists purchased large quantities of goods at old prices. .Some bought several months’ supply. There was no rationing of supplies at the old price by the dental supply firms. The prices charged are. on manufacturers’ price lists, and are the same as prices charged in Great Britain and America, with the percentage of freight, insurance and duty added.

Supplies for the Defence Department are called for by open tender and are open to any one in Australia. In this instance dental - goods are supplied at cost, or near cost. No difficulty has been experienced by the department in obtaining supplies. The bulk of the goods supplied to the department come from a wholesale source in Melbourne. The price factor is not one that influences the dental fees to the public to any extent. The dental fee is not charged on the cost of material but on the dentist’s skill, art, time and ability. Needless to say there is no combine, nor can there be the slightest suggestion of a combine. There are approximately 3,000 dentists practising in Australia. Their requirements are supplied by forty dental supply firms. That number is far in excess of actual needs, being about one firm to 75 dentists. With this competition and the world’s supplies at their disposal it is fantastic to suggest that dental supplies are not available in Australia.

About fifteen years ago two leading manufacturing firms in Great. Britain joined forces, and since then have expended considerable money and time in research and demonstration work “on new dental material and. appliances. This firm found it necessary, in order to service its technical goods, to appoint firms of standing and technical experience as distributing agencies. Seventeen firms have therefore been appointed by this manufacturing concern in Australia ; six in Sydney, five in Melbourne, two each in Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth. These seventeen firms also carry other agencies, such as Australian manufactured goods. About ten or eleven years ago the firm which the honorable member for Calare may have in mind started business in opposition which, of course, it had every right to do. It placed on the market cheaper foreign goods, such as Japanese, hut for various reasons may have found it better policy to endeavour to obtain also the goods held by the previously appointed agents for trading purposes. The manufacturers say there are no obstacles to obtaining supplies, but obviously the goods are serviced, and stocks must be obtained through their agents and obviously at different trade rates. This is the accepted trading practice. It is fantastic to suggest that a combine is being formed or is intended to be established, and, in view of what I have said, I need hardly add that dental supplies are readily and freely obtainable. I make these comments on behalf of reputable trading firms who are working in harmony and goodwill with the Australian dental profession. These firms have co-operated with the profession in the great progress made by it over a long term of years, and they are still cooperating with dentists in the health field of dental art and science.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
Wannon

.- I associate myself with the seasonal greetings which you, Mr. Speaker, have extended to honorable members. I am sorry that the Minister representing the Minister for ‘ Commerce is not in the chamber, because I wish to direct attention to the extraordinary situation that has arisen during the last few hours in connexion with arrangements for the disposal of the barley crop by the Barley Board. Regulations issued provide that barley must not be put into old bags. Unfortunately there are no new bags available and the harvest is ready to be reaped. I have been in touch with the Minister for Commerce, and I think that something was being done this afternoon to meet the position. Late this evening I received a note from the Minister for Commerce, advising me that the Australian Barley Board had been communicated with. The matter is urgent, and I ask the Prime Minister to bring my representations under the notice of the Minister for Commerce, and to urge the Minister to take immediate action to ease the situation.

Mr Menzies:

– I shall be glad to do that.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2505

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

The Budget, 1939-40 - Papers presented by the Honorable P. C. Spender, K.C., M.P., for the information of honorable members in connexion with the revision of the Budget of 1939-40.

League of Nations - Nineteenth Assembly, September, 1938 - Report of the Australian Delegation.

Ordered to be printed.

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Sixteenth Report on the Commonwealth Public Service by Board of Commissioners, dated 4th December, 1939.

National Security Act - National Security (Capital Issues) Regulations - Order - Exemption.

International Labour Organization of the League of Nations - Twenty-fifth Session, Geneva, June, 1939 - Draft Conventions and Recommendations adopted.

Nauru - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 4 - Appropriation (Supplementary) 1938.

No. 5 - Nauruan Royalty Trust Fund Appropriation (Supplementary) 1938.

No. 6 - Licences.

No. 7 - Defence.

No. 8 - Wireless Censorship.

No. 9 - Postal Censorship.

No. 10- Defence (No. 2).

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. - 1939 -

No. 28 - Commonwealth Public Service Artisans’ Association.

No. 29 - Australian Third Division Telegraphists and Postal Clerks’ Union.

No. 30 - Australian Third Division Telegraphists and Postal Clerks’ Union.

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment of L. J. Rogers, Prime Minister’s Department.

Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired for postal purposes -

Lismore, New South Wales.

Inglewood, Western Australia.

Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 23-Oaths.

No. 24 - Evidence (No. 2).

No. 25 - Licensing.

No. 26 - Workmen’s Compensation (No. 2).

Papua Act - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 8 - Supplementary Appropriation, 1938-1939.

No. 12 - Appropriation, 1939-1940.

Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act - Ordinances of 1939 -

No. 13 - Walter Oswald Watt Memorial Fund.

No. 14 - Industrial Board.

House adjourned at 10.5 p.m. until a date and hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker.

page 2505

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

New Loan

Mr CLARK:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · LANG LAB; ALP from 1936

h asked the Acting Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. What are the arrangements that have been made with the Commonwealth Bank for the provision of the loan of £10,000,000 at 3½per cent.?
  2. Is the credit being made available by the Commonwealth Bank by the release of new credit?
  3. Are the private banking institutions participating in the making of this credit available to. the Government? If so, in what way?
Mr Spender:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The Commonwealth Bank, in conjunction with the Australian trading banks, will make the amount of £10,000,000 available to the Commonwealth and State Governments, the terms being” - interest rate, 3½ per cent. per annum; issue price, par. Redeemable as follows.: -One-third in 1942, one-third in 1943, one-third in 1944.
  2. The subscription to the loan by the Commonwealth Bank will bo made from sources available to it in the execution of its functions asa, savings bank, a commercial bank, and a central bank.
  3. Yes. The extent to which the private banking institutions are participating in this loan is a matter of arrangement between those institutions and the Commonwealth Bank.

Expenses op Ministerial Conveyances.

Mr Ward:

d asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

Will he furnish particulars as to the cost during the past twelve months, of motor cars that have been ordered in the name of each member of the Cabinet and have been debited to each respective department?

Mr Perkins:
UAP

– The Minister for the Interior has supplied the following information : -

Cost of motor cars ordered by members of Cabinet are not debited to each department, but are charged to the funds controlled by the Department of the Interior for conveyance of members of Parliament and others.

Wheat Prices

Mr Nock:

k asked the Acting Treasurer, upon notice - 1.Is it a fact that on the 1st December the pool’s average selling price for bagged and bulk wheat of 2s.11d. a bushel, ports, plus 1s.85/8d. a bushel, which’ the flour tax of £4 2s. (id. a ton represented . on that day, aggregate only 4s. 75/8d., insteadof us. 2d. a bushel f.o.r., port, agreed upon by all States for the home-consumption price?

  1. If so, will he supply the formula upon which the Wheat Stabilization Advisory Committee work, and explain the reason for the discrepancy ?
Mr Spender:

– The basis of the Wheat Stabilization Advisory Committee’s consideration of wheat prices is f.o.r. Williamstown which, as the honorable member knows, is for bagged wheat. On the 1st December, the Australian Wheat Board’s price, based on the board’s estimate of export parity, was 3s. a bushel. With bagged wheat at 3s. a bushel, and offals at £4 a ton, the price of flour would be £8 8s. 9d. a ton. In the opinion of the Wheat Stabilization Advisory Committee, the price of flour, with bagged wheat at 5s. 2d. f.o.r. Williamstown, would be £1211s. a ton. This also was the opinion of the Premiers when they devised their plan for submission to the Commonwealth Government. The difference between £1211s. and £8 8s. 9d. is £4 2s. 3d., which was the amount of flour tax operative on the 1st December, 1939.

Postal Department: Telephone Traffic Officers

Mr Sheehan:

n asked thePostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. In future appointments to the higher grades of traffic officer in the telephone branch, is it the intention to give preference to the successful candidates at Examination No. 1497?
  2. Is it a fact that unsuccessful candidates at that examination, who have been appointed as traffic officers, will be given priority on the seniority list over successfulcandidates at the examination, who have not yet received appointment ?
  3. Is it a fact that four clerks in the Telephone Branch, Sydney, have received appointment as traffic officers, third division ? 4.If so, will these appointments give them priority on the seniority list over successful candidates at Examination No. 1497, who have not yet received an appointment?
Mr Harrison:
UAP

– Inquiries are being made, and a reply will be furnished to the honorable member as soon as possible.

Trade Statistics.

Mr Wilson:

n asked the Minister for

Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What was the total value of exports, expressed in Australian currency, for the year ended 30th June, 1929?
  2. What was the total value of imports, expressed in Australian currency, for that year ?
  3. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1929?
  4. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1929?
  5. What was the total value of exports, expressed in Australian currency, for the year ended 30th June, 1939?
  6. What was the total value of imports, expressed in Australian currency, for that year?
  7. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1938?
  8. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1939?
  9. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1938?
  10. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1939?
Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– The information is being obtained.

Dame Enid Lyons

Mr Ward:

d asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that Dame Enid Lyons has been engaged to deliver regular weekly broadcasts over a number of commercial broadcasting stations?
  2. If so, does the Government view with favour this intrusion of a highly-paid’ Commonwealth pensioner . into competition with professional radio lecturers?
Mr Menzies:
UAP

– I have no knowledge of this matter, and in any event would not consider that the Government should interfere.

Unemployment Relief Works

Mr Perkins:
UAP

s. - On the 29th November the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) asked the following questions, upon notice: -

With reference to the published statements that many unemployed will be absorbed in defence works -

What amount of money will be provided for works proposed in the Newcastle and coalfields districts?

Will the works be carried out under the supervision of the Commonwealth Works Department or by the State Government?

If by the Commonwealth Works Department, will he arrange for that department to send immediately an officer to the northern district of New South Wales to engage at once the necessary labour and so provide them with work over Christmas?

In engaging such labour, will preference be given to the unemployed who have not been given employment under the State Government’s permissive income regulations which have precluded them from relief work and f ood relief ?

What amount of money is involved in contract works being carried out in the localities mentioned?

What method is adopted by the successful contractors in engaging the necessary labour?

Are local unemployed tradesmen and labourers given preference, or are they brought from other districts?

If brought from other districts, will his department specify in future contracts that unemployed in the locality where Commonwealth works are being carried out should be given preference?

The Minister for the Interior has now supplied the following information: -

  1. Approximately £610,000.
  2. Works which are unemployed relief will be carried out by the State Government at a cost of approximately £149,000. The remainder of the works will be under the Commonwealth Department of the Interior.
  3. The Commonwealth Works Branch has already arranged the commencement of works to the extent of £111,000.
  4. In the engagement of labour by the Commonwealth Works Branch, preference will be given to the local unemployed irrespective of the State Government’s permissive income regulations.
  5. Approximately £60,000 at present, but this- will shortly be increased to £400,000.
  6. Under the Special Conditions of Contract the contractors are obliged to give preference to returned soldiers and sailors who are capable of effectively performing the duties re- quired, as against any other applicants for employment. 7 and 8. Although no provision exists in Contract Conditions for engagement of local labour, a special paragraph in the letter of acceptance for defence works in country districts states that it is the desire of the Government that local unemployed be used as far as possible.

Apart from these provisions, the method of engaging labour rests with the contractors concerned.

Expenses of Advisory Organizations

Mr Menzies:
UAP

s. - On the 16th November, the honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Rosevear) asked me the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. What amount has been expended in salaries and/or expenses to date to the members of each of the advisory hoards or committees set upby the Government?
  2. What daily expenses are paid to the members of these advisory boards or committees when such bodies are sitting?

I am now in a position to furnish the following replies: -

  1. Advisory Committee on Financial and Economic Policy. - Chairman (Professor Giblin) - Salary, £1,350 per annum, cost of living allowance £6 per week. Members - No additional allowances or expenses are paid to members of the committee.

Advisory Board in Investments. - Members are appointed in an honorary capacity, and receive travelling allowance of £2 2s. per day.

Treasury Finance Committee. - No fees are payable, the appointment of Sir Walter Massy-Greene being in an honorary capacity. The other members of the committee are departmental officers.

Taxation Advisory Committee. - Members - Mr. H. H. Trebilco, Second Commissioner of Taxation; Professor L. F. Giblin (see also under “ Advisory Committee on Financial and Economic Policy “ ) ; Mr. E. V. Nixon, public accountant, Melbourne. Mr. Nixon has offered his services in an honorary capacity, and any expenses claimed by him in connexion with, the business of the committee will be restricted to reasonable out-of-pocket expenses.

Defence Board of Business Administration. - Sir George Pearce will be paid a fee of £500 per annum and travelling allowance when required to travel in connexion with the work of the board. Mr. Essington Lewis and Mr. Norman Myer are serving in an honorary capacity.

Advisory Committee on Restriction Orders and DetentionOrders. - These committees have been appointed in each State under the presidency of a judge of the Supreme Court. The question of payment of fees has not yet been determined.

Standing Committee on Co-ordination of Medical Services. - No fees are paid.

Medical Equipment Control Sub-Committee. - No fees are paid.

State Committees under National Security (Apple and Pear Acquisition) Regulations. - Question of fees not yet determined.

Australian Wheat Board. - Salaries and Fees - General Manager, £3.000 per annum plus disability allowance of £2.000 for the first year of his occupancy of the office of General Manager; Chairman, £750 per annum; two persons representing . wheat-growers of Australia, £500 per annum: all other members, £5 5s. for each day of attendance at a sitting of the board. Expenses - £2 2s. per day for a member (excluding the two wheat-growers’ representatives) obliged to be absent from home overnight in connexion with attendance at board meetings, or on such business of the board as the board determines.

State Wheat Committees. - Question of fees not yet determined.

Egg Supervision Committee. - Fees - £11s. per day for each day of sitting, or while engaged on such business of the committee as the committee directs. Travelling allowance - 25s. per day, when absent from home overnight.

Central Wool Committee (all expenditure is met by the United Kingdom Government). - Salaries’ and Fees - Chairman, Mr. A. F. Bell accepted office free of emolument; executive member, £2,000 per annum; members, £500 per annum, plus travelling expenses (several members have intimated their desire to serve in an honorary capacity).

Dairy Produce Control Committee. - This is a committee representative of the Australian Dairy Produce Board.

Australian Barley Board. - Chairman and Manager (full time), salary £950 per annum; members, £2 2s. per day for attendance at meetings, or while engaged on such business of the board as the board determines. Travelling allowance - £11s. per day while absent from home overnight in the State where his home is situated; £2 2s. per day in other cases.

Australian Hide and Leather Industrie!! Board. - Question of fees not yet determined.

Shipping Control Board. - Not yet formally constituted.

Advisory Panel on Defence Works. - Members - Honorable Sir A. Howie, M.L.C. (chairman) ; Mr. T. R. Hall: Mr. A. Gordon Gutteridge. Expenses - £2 2s. per day when the members are engaged on the work of the panel.

Sir Ernest Fisk, Secretary to the Economic Cabinet and Director of Economic Coordination. - Sir Ernest Fisk’s salary will continue to be paid by Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited.

Commonwealth Prices Commissioner. - D. B. Copland - Salary, £1,800 per annum, plus an allowance of £1 per week.

Advisers - Prices. - Sir Reginald Marcus. Clark and Mr. A. McK. Hislop. Allowance of 30s. per day whilst engaged on this work.

Advisory Committees on Prices. - Appointed on the recommendation of the State governments. No fees arc payable.

The information furnished above is in relation to boards, committees, &c. (except those consisting wholly of departmental officers) established since the outbreak of war. No expenditure has yet been brought to account in respect of the Advisory Board on Investments. Defence Board of Business Administration, theEgg Supervision Committee, and the Australian Hide and Leather Industries Board!

Wheat Bounty

Mr Badman:

n asked the Acting Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. When does the Government intend to pay the balance of the wheat bounty on the 1938-39crop?
  2. What was the average monthly tax on flour during the twelve months it has been in operation?
  3. What was the total tonnage’ of flour on which tax was paid during the twelve months’ ended the 1st December, 1939?
  4. What is the estimated total income derived from the flour tax during the twelve months to the 1st December, 1939?
Mr Spender:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. It is anticipated that the balance of the amount payable to the States under the Wheat Industry Assistance Act will be made available to the States within the next few days.
  2. Approximately £282,900 a month.
  3. Approximately 624,000 tons.
  4. The approximate gross collections for the period to the 1st December, 1939, were £3,367,000.

Roy al Australian Air Force: Accommodation for Recruiting Staff.

Mr Holt:
UAP

t. - On the 5th December the honorable member for Lang (Mr. Mulcahy) asked the following question, without notice : -

Is the Minister aware that the facilities for the accommodation of the recruiting staff of the Royal Australian Air Force at York-street are no different from those provided formerly at Harris-street, Ultimo? In view of these circumstances why has the allowance for the men working at York-street been reduced from 30s. to 17s. a week?

The Royal Australian Air Force recruiting centre situated at Erskine House, corner of York and Erskinestreets, Sydney, is not intended to provide living accommodation for the recruiting staff but simply to constitute an inquiry office. The recruiting staff is comprised of individuals who are receiving pre-war rates of pay and allowances and men who have been subsequently enlisted at the expeditionary force rates of pay. As the recruiting centres are now regarded as permanentlyestablished units, travelling allowances are not paid to members of the staff” resident in the city. Members of the staff, however, on the pre-war rates of pay, if resident in the city, are paid a lodging, fuel and light allowance in cash. The members of the staff on the expeditionary force rates of pay are paid an additional 2s. 5d. a day subsistence allowance. These are tie standard allowances paid in lieu of free messing: and accommodation.

Administration of Defence Works

Mr James:

s asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the Government has handed over to the State governments the administration of defence works, such as at Rathmines, Allendale, Williamstown, Stockton rifle range, and various other places in New South Wales?
  2. Is it a fact that the State governments are suspending their own unemployed relief works and are transferring men from those works to the defence works financed by the Commonwealth ?
  3. If so, how do these facts reconcile with his statement that the proposed defence expenditure would give employment to many at present unemployed and that they would be absorbed in these works?
  4. If the Commonwealth Works Department controlled these works, would unemployed men not engaged on State Government relief work have better prospects of securing employment, and would State governments be precluded from appropriating Commonwealth money for the purpose of meeting their usual unemployed relief work?
Mr Menzies:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Certain defence works included in the unemployment relief scheme have been handed over to the State governments for execution. The administration remains with the Commonwealth. 2. - (a) The answer to the first part of the question is. “No”. In regard to the latter portion of the question I am advised by the Premier of New South Wales that in the engagement of men for employment on defence relief works, the unemployed registered at the State labour exchanges nearest to the work are called up in order of registration as unemployed persons irrespective of whether they are receiving governmental assistance by way of work relief or food relief but subject to the State requirement of giving preference to returned soldiers. Unemployed are called up according to numerical registration numbers for interview by representatives of the employing authorities who exercise the right of selection or rejection according to the suitability of the person registered.

    1. When men from rationed relief work secure employment on defence full-time works their places on rationed relief works are given to other men from unemployed registers who were not successful in securing full-time employment.

This is done in order to retain the same number of men on rationed relief works as were employed on such works prior to the commencement of defence full-time works.

  1. Seeanswer to No. 2.
  2. From the explanation given in the answer to question No. 2, it is apparent that the prospects of the unemployed securing employment are no less favorable than they would be if the works referred to wore executed by the Commonwealth Works Department.

Broadcasts of Overseas News.

Mr Clark:

k asked the Postmaster-

General, upon notice -

  1. As correspondence in the Sydney Morning Herald regarding broadcasts of overseas news discloses some dissatisfaction, will the Government appoint an arbiter with authority to make an arrangement which would be satisfactory to the listeners?
  2. Is it a fact that the Australian Broadcasting Commission pays £2,500 per annum for fourteen words a day of Australian Associated Press cables?
  3. Does Mr. Cleary’s letter confirm the criticism made from time to time by the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Clark), which was denied by the then Postmaster-General?
  4. Will he arrange for the terms of the agreements of 1932 and 1938 to be included in Hansard ?
  5. In view of the poor return from the Australian Associated Press, will the Commission inaugurate its own news gathering service, as has been previously suggested by the honorable member for Darling?
  6. Is it likely that the Department of In formation will be able to supply the Commission with, news. If so, what is likely to be the charge for such service?
Mr Harrison:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The whole question of re-broadcasting overseas news is under consideration by the Government.
  2. The Commission is paying at the rate of £3,000 per annum for the right to use up to a maximum of 200 cabled words a day from the Australian Associated Press and Consolidated Press Services jointly. However, as the news items from these services cannot be broadcast until some time after publication in the newspapers, the Commission has found during the three months since the agreement was made that the maximum extent to which these services could be usefully utilized, has not exceeded an average of fourteen words a day.
  3. The question is not sufficiently specific to permit of an answer being given.
  4. Consideration will be given to this request.
  5. The Commission already has a news service of limited capacity including its own cable service.
  6. This matter is receiving consideration at the moment.

Personnel of War-time Boards and Committees.

Mr Menzies:
UAP

s. - On the 6th December, the honorable, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde), asked me the following question, without notice -

Will the Prime Minister have prepared and tabled before Parliament goes into recess, a statement bringing up to date the lists of all appointments to war-time boards, committees and similar authorities, showing the salaries and allowances paid in each case? 1 desire to inform the honorable member that a return containing information as to the cost of war-time boards, committees, &c, and salaries and allowances paid to members of such bodies was supplied by me yesterday in connexion with a question, upon notice, asked by the honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Rosevear). The additional information sought by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition will be communicated to him at as early a date as possible.

Canberra : Building Works

Mr Green:

n asked the Minister repre’senting the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

  1. Besides the Patents Office buildings, on which the brickwork is well advanced, what are the proposed buildings of brick construction that are to be started in Canberra within the next six months?
  2. Where are they situated, and what will be the total number of bricks required for this building programme over the period mentioned ?
Mr Perkins:
UAP

– The Minister for the Interior has supplied the following information : - 1 and 2. Cottages at Turner, Braddon, Deakin, Forrest and Griffith. Royal Australian Air Force Station at Duntroon - Hangars, guard room, sub-station, power house, hospital, single officers’ mess, gymnasium, sergeants’ mess, airmen’s mess. Hostel at Barton. Transport building at Kingston. Garages in various localities. Total number of bricks required for the above within the next six months about 2,700,000.

Zoning of Darwin.

Mr Perkins:
UAP

s. - On the 5th December, the honorable member for the Northern Territory (Mr. Blain) asked whether the City Planner of Brisbane had yet been invited to zone Darwin.

I am now in a position to advise that tlie Minister for the Interior has been in communication with the Lord Mayor of Brisbane, who has agreed to make available the services of the City Planner, Mr. R. A. Mclnnis, to visit Darwin and submit recommendations for the future planning of the town. Funds to meet the cost of the inspection have not been expressly provided this financial year. It is intended to provide the necessary funds on the Estimates for the financial year 1940-41 and to arrange for Mr. Mclnnis to proceed to Darwin in July or August next,- if that time is convenient to the local authorities at Brisbane.

Expedition to Mount Hagen, New Guinea

Mr Archie Cameron:

n asked the Minister in charge of External Territories, upon notice -

  1. Was an expedition to Mount Hagen, New Guinea, sent out this year?
  2. What was the purpose of it?
  3. What did it discover or achieve in mineral, agricultural, or white-settlement matters?
  4. How long did it stay at Mount Hagen?
  5. How was it supplied with food? (i. Was it supplied with ammunition by aeroplane?
  6. How did it come to be short of ammunition?
  7. With whom did it come into conflict and what casualties did it suffer and inflict?
  8. What was the cause of the conflict?
  9. Had it any bearing on the inability of the Mount Hagen natives to supply the expedition with food?
  10. What did the expedition cost, and what amount was paid for aircraft services?
Mr Perkins:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. A patrol of the New Guinea Administration known as the Hagen-Sepik patrol, commenced operations from Mount Hagen on the 9th March, 1938.
  2. The patrol was organized for the purpose of exploring the unknown country extending from Mount Hagen westwards towards the border of Dutch New Guinea and northwards towards the southern tributaries of the Sepik River.
  3. The patrol discovered many thousands of natives not previously in touch with white men. A full report of the patrol has not yet been submitted, and information as to the possibilities of the area covered by the patrol ran not yet be supplied. The area is classed as “ uncontrolled “, and will not be available for development or white settlement until it is brought under full control hy further administrative action. This may take a considerable time.
  4. The patrol commenced operations from Mount Hagen on the 9th March, 1938, and returned there in June. 1939. 5 and 0. Stores and equipment, including ammunition, were taken to a base camp by aeroplane and then transported by native carriers. Where practicable, the patrol also purchased native foods from the local native inhabitants.
  5. I am not aware that the patrol was short of ammunition.
  6. 0 and .10. The patrol commenced from Mount Hagen, hut its operations extended over about 20,000 square miles of country. A base camp established by the patrol at Wabag was attacked by natives of that area in August, 1938. The circumstances of the attack were investigated by the District Officer, and the Deputy Administrator reported that the inquiries showed that - “Four police and 35 carriers had been attacked on Sunday, 27th August, while engaged in buying pigs from a native group near the base camp.

Bugler Constable Gerchon was captured and then killed by the natives, who also seized his rifle and ammunition. Two other native constables and three native carriers were slightly wounded, and one carrier was wounded seriously. In the affray which followed the attack, the police killed eleven natives and wounded several others.

It is believed that the natives took advantage of the reduced camp strength following the departure of Assistant District Officer J. L. Taylor’s party, possibly to redress what they believed to be grievances arising from the occupation of the land for camp and aerodrome sites, or from the method of acquiring pigs.

On the 1st September, natives, acting as intermediaries forthe offending group, brought offerings of pigs and made peace overtures and returned the rifle and ammunition seized during the attack on the 27th August.”

A section of the patrol was also attacked on the Thurnwald Range in December, 1938, when a native carrier was killed and four other natives were wounded.

  1. The total cost of the patrol was £11,002, which included an amount of £5,796 for aircraft services.

Royal Australian Air Force: Recruits - Claim against Government - Selection of Pilots.

Mr Holt:
UAP

t. - On the 5th December the honorable member for Griffith (Mr. Conelan) asked the following question, without notice: -

Is it a fact that a young man who enlisted in the Royal Australian Air Force in Brisbane, and was given a rail warrant to Sydney, was rejected when he attended at the Richmond Aerodrome for attestation? Is the Acting Minister for Air aware that since then the young man has been stranded for a fortnight in Sydney because he has not sufficient funds to pay his fare back to Brisbane? If so, will he see that this man is given a rail warrant home, and also that there are no recurrences of such happenings?

Recently a candidate for enlistment at the Royal Australian Air Force Station, Richmond, on arrival for attestation was found to be over the prescribed age limit for enlistment. He stated that he had declared his correct age to the recruiting officer in Brisbane. Before he could be enlisted, therefore, it was necessary for his documents to be forwarded from the recruiting centre in Brisbane in order to check whether his statement to the recruiting officer in Brisbane in regard to his age was correct. In addition, as special approval has to be obtained to enlist men over the prescribed age limit, some delay necessarily occurred. In this case it was found that there was no objection to the man’s enlistment, and instructions, were issued that he should be enlisted as from the date on which he originally reported to the Royal Australian Air Force Station, Richmond.

Mr Holt:
UAP

– On the 6th December, the honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. George Lawson) asked the following question, without notice: -

Is it correct, as reported in the press, that 25 members of the Royal Australian Air Force in New South Wales have submitted a claim for £280 against the Commonwealth Government? If so, will the Minister give the reasons for such a claim, and state whether the Government proposes to pay the money claimed to the men? If not, why not?

No claim has been received. Apparently the members concerned are under the impression that they are entitled to travelling allowance while on the recruiting staff in Sydney. As the recruiting centres in all capital cities must be regarded as permanently established units for the duration of the war, travelling allowances are not payable to members of those staffs. They are entitled, however, to be paid lodging, fuel, light and ration allowances in cash, as messing facilities are not available. The members of the staff on the special force rates of pay are paid 2s. 5d. a day as a subsistence allowance - that being the standard allowance paid in lieu of free messing and accommodation for both military and air force personnel on special force rates of pay.

On the 1st December and also on the 6th December, the honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Rosevear) asked questions as to whether preference is being given in the Royal Australian Air Force to “ A “ class pilots as against “ B “ class pilots.

I am now able to inform the honorable member that the Department of Air is not aware of any complaints of this kind. I am informed that the Air Force flying training course is divided into two distinct sections - one for training flying instructors, and the other for elementary and intermediate training of pilots. The more experienced pilots from civil life are selected for training as instructors, or for direct entry into the service squadrons, whilst those of lesser experience - in which category most “A” licenceholders would fall - are placed in the elementary and intermediate training course. In making selections for the various training courses, consideration is given to the flying and other qualifications of each individual for the course to which he has been allotted. This principle in selection is strictly adhered to as it would not be sound in principle to select experienced pilots for the elementary and intermediate course. With reference to the suggestion that “ B “ class pilots have been discharged, I am informed that one Air Force reservist who, incidentally, held a “ B “ licence, was discharged recently because it was considered unlikely that he would become an efficient Air Force pilot. His discharge was approved only after full reports had been received from his instructor’s and commanding officer. These reports showed clearly that he was not likely to become an efficient Air Force pilot. He was given an opportunity to remain in the Air Force in some other capacity, but preferred not to accept this offer. This is the only instance of any one holding a “ B “ licence who has been discharged recently.

Trade Statistics

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

n. - On the 7th December the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Wilson) asked the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. What was the total value of exports, expressed in Australian currency, for the year ended 30th June, 1929?
  2. What was the total value of imports, expressed in Australian currency, for that year?
  3. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, for the year ended the 30th June, 1929?
  4. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1929?
  5. What was the total value of exports, expressed in Australian currency, for the year ended 30th June, 1939?
  6. What was the total value of imports, expressed in Australian currency, for that year ?
  7. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1938?
  8. What was the value of wheat and flour, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1939?
  9. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1938?
  10. What was the value of gold, expressed in Australian currency, exported for the year ended 30th June, 1939?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information : -

  1. £A141,615,000.
  2. £A143,648,000.
  3. £A26,335,000.
  4. £A2,984,000.
  5. £A140,496,000.
  6. £A1 27,95 1,000.
  7. £A26,937,000.
  8. £A13,275,000. .
  9. £A15,912,000.
  10. It is not in the national interest to disclose this information at the present time.

Postal Department: Telephone Traffic Officers

Mr Harrison:
UAP

n. - On the 7th November the honorable member for Cook (Mr. Sheehan) asked the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. In . future appointments to the higher grades of traffic officer in the telephone branch, is it the intention to give preference to the successful candidates at Examination No. 1,497?
  2. Is it a fact that unsuccessful candidates at that examination, who have been appointed as traffic officers, will be given priority on the seniority list over successful candidates at the examination who have not yet received appointment?
  3. Is it a fact that four clerks in the telephone branch, Sydney, have received appointment as traffic officers, third division ?
  4. If so, will these appointments give them priority on the seniority list over successful candidates at Examination No. 1,497 who have not yet received an appointment?

I am now in a position to furnish the honorable member with the following answers to his inquiries: -

  1. In making appointments to higher grades of traffic officer in the telephone branch, the relative efficiency and seniority of applicants will be considered in accordance with Section 50 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act 1922-1934.
  2. The relative seniority of the officers concerned has not changed as the result of their appointment as traffic officers.
  3. Yes.
  4. See answer to No. 2.

Treatment of Navalratings

Mr Ward:

d asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that naval ratings who have been undergoing hospital treatment at the Flinders Naval Base, and have been classified as fit for light duties, are sent to work as domestic servants and helps in the residence of the Surgeon-Commander?
  2. Is it a fact that the distance which the patients have to walk from the hospital to the residence of the Surgeon-Commander is approximately one mile and that the nature of the work they are asked to perform is more arduous than their state of health warrants?
  3. Is it a fact that ratings who are undergoing training at the depot are sent to work as house hoys, gardeners, or general helps, at the residence of theEngineer-Conimander ?
Sir Frederick Stewart:
UAP

– No approval has been given for such procedure and the matter is being investigated. 2nd Australian Imperial Force: Sewering of Puckapunyal Camp - Transport Arrangements - Vaccination.

Mr Street:
UAP

t. - On the 6th December, the honorable member for Deakin (Mr. Hutchinson) asked the following question, without notice: -

Will the Minister for the Army take into consideration the desirability of sewering the Australian Imperial Force camp at Puckapunyal to improve Sanitary conditions generally in that area and so safeguard the health of the troops?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that the work of sewering the Australian Imperial Force camp at Puckapunyal is in progress.

Mr Street:
UAP

– On the 6th December, the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) asked the following question, without notice : -

Will the Minister for the Army consider making provision for free transport between the military camp and the town of Seymour to members of the 6th Division who are in camp at Puckapunyal? I am informed by members of the 6th Division that the only existing means of transport consists of private hire vehicles, the charge for which is 2s. each way between the camp and Seymour.

I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that road transport is available between Seymour and Puckapunyal camp under licence by the Transport Regulation Board. The prescribed fare is1s. a passenger each way, not 2s. each way as stated. The provision generally of free transport between camps and terminal stations or main shopping centres other than for official purposes would have far-reaching results, and it is regretted that the Government is unable to accept the liability for the additional expense.

Mr Street:
UAP

t. - On the 6th December, the honorable member for Cook (Mr. Sheehan) asked the following question, without notice : -

Is the Minister for the Army able to inform me whether it is a fact that men are’ being discharged from the 2nd Australian Imperial Force for refusing to be vaccinated?

No information is available as to whether any members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force are being discharged for refusing to be vaccinated, but inquiries will, be made and a further reply will be furnished.

I may add, however, that Australian Military Regulation 435 makes vaccination compulsory for members of the Citizen Forces on war service and Permanent Forces. It was the custom in the 1st Australian Imperial Force, and it is of the highest importance that vaccination should be insisted upon in the case of members of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force. 1st Australian Imperial Force: Enlistments, Casualties, etc.

Mr Menzies:
UAP

– On the 5th December, the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) asked the following questions, upon notice : -

  1. How many Australians enlisted during the last war?
  2. How many were sent overseas?
  3. How many were (a) killed, and (b) wounded ?
  4. What number is at present in (a) military hospitals, and (b) lunatic asylums in Australia?
  5. What was the total number from all countries of men (a) killed, and (b) wounded, in the last war?
  6. What was the total cost of the last war to Australia, to the 30th June, 1939, showing principal and interest separately?
  7. What was the total cost of the last war to all belligerent nations?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable member as follows: -

  1. No official information is available. Estimates vary to a large extent, ranging from £28,746,000,000 to £56,087,000,000. The latter figure is that stated in W hi taker’s Almanac.

Munitions Workers’ Pay.

Mr Menzies:
UAP

s. - On the 6th December, the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Wilson) asked the following question, without notice : -

Is it a fact that there is a proposal under consideration to pay munitions workers extra pay known as “ danger pay “ ? Will the same consideration be given to soldiers when on active service?

The reply to the honorable member’s question is “ No “, but under agreements entered into between the unions concerned and the Commonwealth Government special allowances have been paid for many years past to civilian employees engaged in certain operations in connexion with the manufacture of explosives.

Militia Pay and Parliamentary Allowances.

Mr Street:
UAP

t. - On the 5th December the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) asked the following question without notice : -

Are there any members of the Commonwealth Parliament holding rank in the Defence Forces of the Commonwealth who are drawing Militia pay in addition to parliamentary allowances? If so, will the Minister for Defence furnish full particulars to the House?

The particulars desired are not available at Army Head-quarters, but inquiries are being made from commands, and the information will be forwarded as soon as possible.

Supplies of Pig Iron.

Mr Menzies:
UAP

s. - On the 5th December the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) asked me whether it was a fact that British companies could not get supplies of pig iron from Australian producers though foreign companies were able to do so. I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that it is not a fact that Great Britain is unable to obtain supplies of pig iron from Australian manufacturers whilst these manufacturers are supplying it to foreign countries. No orders for pig iron have been booked with foreign countries since the outbreak of war. The Australian manufacturers have, on the other hand, sold to the British Government their entire surplus of products up to the end of June, 1940, after making allowance for Australian and New Zealand domestic requirements, including defence needs.

Unemployment Relief.

Mr Spender:

r. - On the 6th December the honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. McHugh) addressed questions, without notice, to the Prime Minister and myself regarding proposed variations of the defence unemployment relief programme in South Australia.

I promised the honorable member that I would inquire regarding the receipt of a letter from the Premier of South Australia on the subject. I have now ascertained that a. letter was addressed to the Prime Minister by the Premier of South Australia on the 27th November, 1939, and that the proposals submitted by him were communicated to the appropriate Commonwealth authorities for consideration. I am advised that consultations between Commonwealth and State officers are taking place in Adelaide this week, and that it is ex-, pected that finality will shortly be reached regarding the revised programme.

Militia Training Camps.

Mr Street:
UAP

t. - The honorabel member for Moreton (Mr. Francis) and the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. Anthony) recently asked if an indication could be given of the date on which the Militia Forces would go into camp for the three months’ training period.

I have been informed that the dates of Unit Camps have not yet been fixed, but it is expected than an announcement will be made within a few days.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 7 December 1939, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1939/19391207_reps_15_162/>.

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