House of Representatives
9 April 1935

14th Parliament · 1st Session



Mr. Si-baker (Hon. G. J. Bell) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.

page 1046

EXTRADITION TREATIES

ACCESSION OF THE CommonWEALTH.

Mr HUGHES:
VicePresident of the Executive Council · North Sydney · UAP

– I lay on the table of the House copies of extradition treaties between the United Kingdom and Iraq and the Polish Republic.

The accession of the Commonwealth, including the Territories of Papua and Norfolk Island, and the Mandated Terri. tories of New Guinea and Nauru, to these conventions came into force on the following dates : Iraq, the 31st August, 1934; Poland, the 4th January, 1935.

page 1046

LEGAL PROCEEDINGS CONVENTIONS

Accession OF THE COMMON WEALTH.

Mr HUGHES:
VicePresident of the Executive Council · North Sydney · UAP

2].- -I lay on the table of the House copies of Legal Proceedings in Civil and Commercial Matters - Conventions between the United Kingdom and Denmark and Iceland, Finland, Netherlands, and the Turkish Republic.

The accession of the Commonwealth, including the Territories of Papua and Norfolk Island, and me Mandated Territories of New Guinea and Nauru, to these conventions came into fores on the following dates: Denmark, the 23th February, 1935 ; Finland, the 1st March 1935; Turkey, the 3rd March, .1935; and the Netherland.. the Sth April, 1935.

page 1046

HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Dr. EARLE Page) agreed to-

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until J 1 a.m. tomorrow.

page 1046

NEW AND OPPOSED BUSINE8S AFTER 11 P.M

Motion (by Dr. EARLE Page) - by leave - agreed to -

That Standing Order No. 70 - eleven o’clock rule - be suspended until the end of this week.

page 1046

THE LATE HON. DAVID WATKINS

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Acting Prime Minister · Cowper · CP

by leave - This morning I received from the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) a cable in which he asked me to communicate to thu House the following message dated London, the Sth April, 1935:-

My colleagues here and 1 have learned with deep regret of the death of the Honorable David Watkins, which brings to a close his long record of service to the people. The late honorable member was held in the friendliest esteem and regard by members of all parties and by none more so than myself. The ripe experience and knowledge that had come to him in the course of his many years of parliamentary life will be greatly missed. By his passing one of the few remaining links he t ween the present. Parliament and the first Parliament of the Commonwealth has been severed. To the sorrowing members of his family we extend our sincere sympathy.

Mr Prowse:

– la it competent for you, Mr. Speaker, to have this message incorporated with the resolution of sympathy passed by this House, and the speeches delivered thereon, to be forwarded to the relatives of the late honorable gentleman ?

Mr SPEAKER:

– That is a matter for the Acting Prime Minister.

Dr EARLE Page:

– -I am sure that honorable members would wish to have this message incorporated with the other matter that is to be sent forward.

Mr SPEAKER:

– That will be done.

page 1046

PAPERS

The following papers were presented:

Postmaster-General’s Department - Twentyfourth Annual Report, year 1933-34.

Ordered to bc printed.

Air Force Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1935, No. 32.

Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Land Tax Ordinance - Regulations.

page 1047

QUESTION

PETROL COMMISSION

Mr PRICE:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Will the Acting Prime Minister supply the House with the following information before the termination of the present sittings: (1) What has been the total cost of the Petrol Commission? (2) What amounts have been paid to individual members of it? (3) Does the right honorable gentleman consider that value has been obtained for the expenditure involved?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has asked a question in practically identical terms, and I have informed him that I hope to have the information available to-morrow.

page 1047

QUESTION

MEAT EXPORTS

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– In view of the importance of the negotiations now proceeding with respect to the imposition of restrictions upon, meat exports to Great Britain, can the Acting Prime Minister make to the House a statement based upon information received from the Prime Minister?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– I regret that at the moment the information in the possession of the Government is not sufficient to place before the House.

page 1047

QUESTION

FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY

Generation of Electricity: Use ok Snowy River Waters.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

– Paragraph 10 of the agreement made between the Commonwealth of Australia and the State of Nev South Wales, which is set out in the Seat of Government Acceptance Act, 1909, provides that “ the State shall grant to the Commonwealth without payment therefor the right to use the waters of the Snowy River . . . .for the generation of electricity for the purpose of the Territory, and to construct the works necessary for the purpose, and to conduct the electricity so generated to the Territory.” Has the Minister for the Interior noticed in the press a statement to the effect that the Government of New South Wales is considering the utilization of the waters of the Snowy River for the purpose of generating electricity? Has he received any notification to that effect from the State government and, if so, is he taking any steps to protect the interests of the Commonwealth under the provisions of paragraph 10 of the agreement?

Mr PATERSON:
Minister for the Interior · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · CP

– My attention has been directed to the press article mentioned by the honorable gentleman. I have not received recently a notification from New South Wales as to its intentions, but I assure the honorable gentleman that steps have already been taken to protect the interests of the Commonwealth in the terms of the Seat of Government Acceptance Act.

page 1047

QUESTION

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Position of British Migrants

Mr DRAKEFORD:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– I ask the Acting Treasurer the following questions: - Is the’ Government aware that there are numbers of deserving aged people who were not in destitute circumstances at the time of their arrival in Australia, but are now destitute and nevertheless are not entitled to the benefits of old-age and invalid pensions, although they would have been entitled to participate in the ‘ benefits of such pensions had they remained in England? If the Government is aware of the position, has it considered the matter of making provision for such deserving cases by establishing reciprocal conditions with the British Government? If the matter has not yet been considered, will the Government give it consideration and remove any injustices which exist because of the absence of reciprocal provisions with Great Britain?

M.r. CASEY. - I cannot say what number of persons is involved. From time to time, applications are received from aged persons who have come to this country from Great Britain but do not satisfy the conditions laid down in the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act. This is not a new subject. I believe that negotiations ere entered into by two previous govern - ments, one of which was the Government led by the right honorable the Leader of the Opposition. The difficulty in the past has hinged upon the very substantial disparity that exists between the rates and conditions in regard to pensions in Great Britain and in Australia, as well as upon the fact that the flow of aged people who would seek a pension is very definitely from Great Britain to Australia. The difficulties encountered in the attempt to arrange a reciprocal basis have so far made it impossible for Australia to extend to aged British migrants the benefits to which the honorable member refers.

page 1048

QUESTION

SALES TAX ON” SCHOOL BOOKS

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– Will the Acting Treasurer state whether the Taxation Department recently altered its policy and now charges sales tax on school books sold in bulk lots to school teachers for cash or on time payment for re-sale to their scholars? If so, will he Consider the advisability of reverting to the former policy, in order to ensure that children may obtain uniform books at the lowest possible price?

Mr CASEY:
Assistant Treasurer · CORIO, VICTORIA · UAP

– I am not aware of any recent alteration in the direction mentioned by the honorable member, but I shall look into the matter and supply him with the details.

page 1048

QUESTION

WAR PENSIONS.

Mr GANDER:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Yesterday the Minister for Repatriation stated, in reply to a question by me, that during the last twelve months 468 applications for pensions had been received from ex-soldiers, of which 409 had been granted and 59 refused. As I have personally handled more than 59 cases in which the applications have been refused, will the right honorable gentleman instruct the Repatriation Department to check the information supplied to me and ascertain the true position?

Mr HUGHES:
UAP

– I shall communicate with the department and endeavour to obtain the information sought by the honorable member.

Mr GARDEN:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Last week I asked the Minister for Repatriation a question regarding the deduction of 12s. 6d. from the pension of certain individuals at the Prince Henry Auxiliary Hospital at Randwick. Has the right honorable gentleman yyet consulted the Acting reasureron the subject? Mr. HUGHES. - I regret to say that I have not yet been able to do so; but I shall endeavour to give the honorable member an answer to his question to-morrow.

Mr WARD:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Repatriation inform me whether the Government intends to bring down legislation to provide all ex-soldiers suffering from pulmonary tuberculosis with a pension ?

Mr HUGHES:

– I have already answered a question of that kind on several occasions, and I can think of no reason, except the imminence of an election in New South Wales, why it should be asked.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
WANNON, VICTORIA

– In view of the fact that commutation of soldiers’ pensions has proved very unsatisfactory, will the Minister for Repatriation consider the restoration of commuted pensions when application is made for such restoration ?

Mr HUGHES:

– This matter has been brought under my notice and I have placed it before the Government. Very strong representations have been made to me with the object of achieving what the honorable member suggests, but at this juncture all I can say is that the matter is receiving the attention of the Government.

page 1048

QUESTION

CRIPPLED CHILDREN

Lord Nuffield’s Gist

Mr STREET:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

– Is the Minister for Health yet in a position to make to the House a statement outlining the purpose* to which the gift of £50,000 made by Lord Nuffield for the care of crippled children is to be applied, with particular reference to the outbreak of infantile paralysis in the State of Victoria?

Mr HUGHES:
UAP

– The honorable member for Brisbane raised this matter on the adjournment of the House last night.

The money donated by Lord Nuffield will be vested in the Minister for Health as trustee, and will be kept as a capital amount. Both interest and capital will be expended gradually over a period of either five or ten years and will be intelligently directed towards the establishment in each State of a sound, effectively co-ordinated scheme. During this period steps should be taken to ensure that further income may be available. In thi& connexion it is felt that the Rotary Clubs and other organizations could be induced to co-operate. The fund will be expended by the Minister, as trustee, acting On the advice of a council, to be known as “ The Council of Advice”. That council will be composed of: - (a) The DirectorGeneral of Health, who will act as the chairman of it; (&) representatives, selected by the Minister, of hospitals and such associations as are interested in the welfare of crippled children; and (c) a nominee of the British Medical Association.

In order that the best results may be obtained from Lord Nuffield’s magnificent gift, the scheme must be based on the soundest lines. “With a view to effecting the necessary co-ordination, the DirectorGeneral of Health will proceed, as soon as possible, to visit each State to interview the bodies interested, to inspect the existing institutions, and to consult medical associations. The claims of the various institutions for participation in any disbursements from this fund, which have been represented to me by several honorable members, will be brought under the notice of the Council of Advice.

page 1049

QUESTION

MATERNAL WELFARE

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA

– As press reports indicate that the Commonwealth Government intends to grant £50,000 for maternal welfare, will the Acting Prime Minister inform the House on what basis this fund is to be distributed as between the various States?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The intention of the Government is that this amount, which it has donated for the purpose mentioned by the honorable member, shall be apportioned on the advice of the Federal Council of Health, consisting of the Commonwealth Director-General of Health aud the Directors of Public Health in each of the States.

page 1049

QUESTION

PAYMENT OF PENSIONS

Mr CASEY:
UAP

– In this House the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) and, by correspondence, the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Stacey) have asked questions dealing with the payment of pensions in North Adelaide. It has now been arranged that in future these payments shall be made at the Lower North Adelaide telephone office, which is locally known as Graves’ Store. I feel sure that this will remove any hardship which pensioners in that locality have experienced in the past in having to travel long distances to collect their pensions.

page 1049

PRINTING COMMITTEE

Second report brought up by Mr. McBride, read by the Clerk, and - by leave - agreed to.

page 1049

QUESTION

INTERNATIONAL LABOUR CONFERENCE

Mr HUGHES:
UAP

– Yesterday the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) asked whether it was the intention of the Government to attach technical advisers to the delegation to this year’s conference of the International Labour Office, and, if so, who would they be, and would provision be made for one woman representative.

In reply to the honorable member I would say that the question of the appointment of advisers to assist the delegates at the forthcoming session of the International Labour Conference has received careful consideration and the Government regrets that it cannot see its way to make such appointments.

page 1049

QUESTION

TENNANTS CREEK GOLDFIELD

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister for the Interior noticed a report in the press concerning the unsatisfactory conditions prevailing at Tennant’s Creek in the Northern Territory, in which it is stated that no provision has been made by the Government for the appointment of a doctor or a school teacher? If this report is correct, will the Minister take steps to have such appointments made?

Mr PATERSON:
CP

– I have noticed the report referred to by the honorable member. About a fortnight ago I issued instructions that the medical officer stationed at Alice Springs should visit Tennant’s Creek to report on health and sanitation arrangements there. In the near future it may be necessary to appoint a medical officer at Tennant’s

Creek, but 1 am awaiting the report of the officer I have mentioned before taking action in this matter.

With regard to the establishment of a school at Tennant’s Creek, it is a little difficult at the moment to decide on the best site. This is a big mining field extending over some hundreds of square miles, and it is difficult at present to say at which spot the school would best serve future requirements. I assure the honorable member that I shall look into the matter when I visit Tennant’s Creek, which I propose to do within about three weeks.

page 1050

QUESTION

SCOTTISH REGIMENTS

Sir Donald CAMERON:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– Oan the Minister for Defence state what progress has been made in the formation of Scottish regiments in the various States, and, also, what assistance or encouragement the department. has been able to give in this direction?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for Defence · WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– The 5th Battalion in Victoria which is known as the Victorian Scottish Regiment is allied with the Gordon Highlanders. The 30th Battalion in New South Wales which is known as the City of Sydney Regiment is allied with the Black Watch Royal Highlanders. The clothing of these Scottish regiments in full Highland uniform is progressing. It is understood that Highland uniforms were issued to non-commissioned officers, and men of the Victorian Scottish Regiment at their head-quarters in Sturt-street, South Melbourne, last night. The outfits cost each man approximately £4 10s., in addition to the Government allowance. No allowance extra to the clothing allowance for all Infantry units is granted to Scottish regiments. However, the value of certain items of clothing that are not required by the Scottish regiments is allowed and articles of Highland pattern may be purchased from that allowance. In some cases where it is possible, Highland pattern articles of uniform are issued, such as the Highland pattern jacket and glengarry instead of field service cap. Additional articles such as kilts and sporran which are not provided by the department and cannot be obtained from the normal clothing allowance must be obtained privately. I would add that this matter is proceeding very satisfactorily and that the Scottish people, in supporting such a movement, have set an example which might readily he followed by members of other national societies in Australia.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954

– Will the Minister for Defence inform me of the method by which the Defence Department arrived at its decision to ally local regiments with regiments in Great Britain? Can he tell me also, why preference was given to the Gordon Highlanders and the Black Watch, when such a regiment as the Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders at Inverness could have been chosen?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Such arrangements are made directly by the battalions concerned.

page 1050

QUESTION

PROSECUTION OF GERALD GRIFFIN

Mr BRENNAN:
Minister without portfolio assisting the Minister for Commerce · BATMAN, VICTORIA · UAP

– In connexion with the prosecution of Mr. Gerald Griffin, apart from the question of costs which is comparatively a minor matter of importance only to those participating in them, will the Government consider making adequate compensation to this man against whom a prosecution has proved abortive, and, in future, will it endeavour to make better use of the excellent legal advice at its disposal?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– I believe that it is the feeling of everybody in Australia that migrants of a certain kind should be prevented from landing in this country. Rather than adopt the suggestion made by the honorable member, I think the Government is much more likely, to consider amending the law in this respect.

page 1050

QUESTION

LA PEROUSE DEFENCE AREA

Mr JENNINGS:
WATSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– In regard to the reported intention of the Defence Department to extend its area at La Perouse will the Minister for Defence state what area it is proposed to utilize?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– In the district referred to by the honorable member a considerable area of land is set aside for defence purposes, but portion of it is in use by the New South Wales Golf Club. The department is now negotiating with that club with regard to the alteration of its tenure with respect to its area. I shall obtain further details and inform the honorable member as soon as I receive them.

page 1051

QUESTION

CERTIFICATES OF AIRWORTHINESS

Mr CLARK:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Defence state the terms under which certificates of air-worthiness are issued for aeroplanes in the United States of America? Will he allow our Civil Aviation Branch to negotiate with the government of the United States of America for a more satisfactory interchange of these certificates ?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– Today there is practically a customs embargo against the entry into Australia of aeroplanes from the United States of America. Furthermore, the fact that the United States of America is not a member of the Air Convention to which other countries, notably Great Britain and Australia, are parties, causes further difficulty in permitting the entrance into Australia of machines from the United States of America. It is not the intention of the Government at present to make any alteration of existing arrangements.

page 1051

WHEAT GROWERS RELIEF BILL

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– If the Acting Prime Minister is making inquiries as to whether South Australia is entitled to a larger allocation of the amount set aside for distribution for the relief of wheat farmers because of the reduced yield in that State compared with figures previously supplied by South Australian officials in this matter, will he also make similar inquiries with respect to the allocation to be made to Western Australia?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– Replying to the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) yesterday, I pointed out that if it could be shown that the estimate of 29,500,000 bushels given by the South Australian statistician and by the State authorities to the Federal statistician had dropped to 22,000,000 bushels, the matter would receive con- »sideration in another place. If the honorable member for Kalgoorlie has any information showing a similar decline of yield in Western Australia, the Government will be pleased to re-consider the allocation for that State.

page 1051

QUESTION

PORT ADELAIDE RIFLE RANGE

Mr PRICE:

– Is the Minister for Defence able to inform me whether a new site has yet been obtained for the rifle range at Port Adelaide, and is it correct that Imperial Chemical Industries, Limited, has made a request for the rifle range site in order that additional land may he made available for the development of an alkali industry at Port Adelaide?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– The Defence Department does not desire to place any obstacle in the way of the establishment of this new industry, but it considers that the welfare of those who use the existing rifle range should be protected. Inquiries are being made with the object of ascertaining whether a new rifle range can be provided in that district or in a situation elsewhere equally suitable to the Defence Department, but finality has not yet been reached.

page 1051

QUESTION

PUBLICITY FOR CANBERRA

Mr BARNARD:

– Will the Minister for the Interior inform me whether his department has any lantern slides of recently taken views of Canberra that could be used by persons interested in advertising the attractions of the Federal Capital? If not, will he endeavour to obtain several sets of such slides for this purpose ?

Mr PATERSON:
CP

– My department, has one set of recently-made slides, but its experience in the lending of lantern slides has been so disastrous that it does not desire to repeat it. I have every sympathy with the desire of the honorable member to advertise Canberra, but the fact is that at holiday times, the accommodation available for visitors in the Federal Capital is almost invariably insufficient to meet the demand. I understand that all available accommodation for the coming Easter season has already been reserved.

page 1052

QUESTION

CENSORSHIP OE BOOKS

Mr JENNINGS:

– I ask the Minister for Trade and Customs whether his attention has been drawn to a press interview reported to have been given by Mr. J. W. Metcalfe, Deputy Librarian of the Public Library of New South Wales, in the course of which that gentleman criticized the censorship methods of Australia and remarked that Australia was known abroad as a benighted country? Has the Minister any statement to make on the subject?

Mr WHITE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · UAP

– I saw the report in the local press and in the two Melbourne evening newspapers of the remarks of Mr. Metcalfe. I do not know that gentleman, but his inquiries must have been very superficial if he did not know the censorship laws of the United States of America under which many books banned under the Australian law are also banned in America. Of course, some books not banned in America are banned in Australia. Mr. Metcalfe made a comparison between Australia and Great Britain; but evidently he did not know that prosecutions are occasionally launched in Great Britain under the censorship law, and heavier penalties are imposed than is. the case in Australia. I noticed that recently a man was prosecuted for having imported certain books into Great Britain and was fined £100.

Mr Brennan:

– How is it that the Minister happens to have the details of that case before him at the moment?

Mr WHITE:

– I know of the brilliant minds of honorable members of this chamber. The honorable member, for instance, is quite likely, at any time, to ask a question about Mr. Kisch and I am ready for him. I thought it possible that a question might be asked in regard to Mr. Metcalfe’s remarks. The individual prosecuted in Great Britain was fined £100 and 20 guineas costs in each case. During the discussion of our censorship law in this House a few days ago, on a formal motion for adjournment, I explained the censorship laws of various countries. Mr. Metcalfe should study the law of his own country as well as that of other countries on this subject before making such unreasonable remarks.

page 1052

QUESTION

NEW GUINEA AND PAPUA

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– As the time has arrived when it is usual for the annual report of the Mandated Territories of New Guinea and the Territory of Papua to be tabled in this House, I ask the Acting Prime Minister whether such reports have yet reached the Government, and if so, when they will be tabled? If they have not yet come to hand, has the right honorable gentleman any idea when they will be received?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– I shall make inquiries on the subject.

page 1052

QUESTION

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– I ask honorable members to postpone further questions without notice until to-morrow.

page 1052

QUORUMS- COUNTING OF HOUSE

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. Gr. J. Bell).During the last sitting of the House, tho honorable member for Werriwa (Mr. Lazzarini) asked me to state, for the guidance of honorable members, the practice I propose to adopt when my attention is directed to the state of the House, and, in doing so, he referred to the practice observed by previous presiding officers and Chairmen of Committees. As the closure was applied to the motion “ That the House do now adjourn “, I had to defer my reply until now. I do not intend to refer in any way to the rulings of Chairmen of Committees on this subject. The House has no knowledge of what happens in committee except such as is conveyed to it in resolutions reported from the committee. It would not be right for me to direct the Chairman of Committees as to his rulings, nor do I propose to do so. In the past, both as Speaker and Chairman of Committees, I have, with one exception, counted the number of honorable members present upon my attention having been drawn to the state of the House or the committee. The one exception occurred on an occasion when I was Chairman of Committees. The number of members present had been counted several times after the lapse of a very short period of time. I noticed that some members were leaving the chamber immediately after a quorum was formed, returning again upon a further call being made. It seemed to me an attempt was being made not only to obstruct proceedings, for the honorable member who was at the time addressing the committee was several times interrupted, but also to embarrass that honorable member. I therefore declined to count the committee, and stated that I had satisfied myself within the preceding two minutes that a quorum was present. The honorable member for “Werriwa referred to the practice of presiding officers to allow a certain length of time to elapse after a call had been made for a quorum before again counting the House, thus following the practice of the House of Commons. I have not followed that practice, nor do I intend to do so. The honorable member correctly cited the Standing Order dealing with this matter, and I agree that its intention is clear. He also referred to the relevant section of the Constitution on the subject. In cases such as the one I have mentioned where I refuse to count the House, I propose to use my discretion. After attention had been called to the lack of a quorum I should not allow, business to be transacted before assuring myself that a quorum was present. I do not propose to indicate that I shall allow any particular length of time to elapse before counting the number of members present after my attention has previously been drawn to the state of the House.

page 1053

SOLDIER SETTLEMENT LOANS (FINANCIAL AGREEMENT) BILL 1935

Motion (by Mr. Casey) - by leave - agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to approve an agreement made between the Commonwealth of Australia of the first part and the States of New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia, Western Australia, and Tasmania, of the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh parts respectively.

Bill brought up, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

by leave - I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The purpose of this bill is to approve of an agreement which has been executed between the governments of the Commonwealth and the six States relating, in the main, to soldier settlement loans. The chief items of financial relief to the States in connexion with soldier settlement loans, which are embodied in the agreement, have already been given effect to in accordance with announcements previously made to Parliament; but it was necessary to enter into a formal agreement, the completion of which has delayed the introduction of this measure. All State parliaments have now ratified the agreement, and it remains only for this Parliament to do likewise.

The control and management of soldier land settlement was undertaken by the States, but the Commonwealth has contributed in the past very substantially by way of financial assistance. The Commonwealth also made loans to the States for this purpose, aggregating about £35,000,000. In 192-5 an agreement was entered into between the Governments of the Commonwealth and the ‘States to give effect to mutual arrangements that had been made, at the same time providing that an amount of £5,000,000 should be written by the Commonwealth off the loans due by the States to it. This arrangement was ratified some few years ago by all States except New South “Wales and Victoria. Owing to the fact that those two States did not ratify it at that time it has been necessary to delay the passage of the bill and the presenting of this agreement to the Commonwealth Parliament for ratification.

Mr Forde:

– Does this bill propose to write off £5,000,000?

Mr CASEY:

– No ; this bill ratifies the whole of the arrangements, which I shall explain in detail. In 1927 requests were made by the States for further financial assistance from the Commonwealth, and, as honorable members will remember, the Commonwealth Government, as a consequence of those . requests, appointed Mr. justice Pike of the Land Valuation Court, New South “Wales, to investigate the whole subject with a view to arriving at a fair allocation of the financial responsibility as between the Commonwealth on the one hand and the various States on the other. Mr. Justice Pike, after a very full investigation, recommended that the losses should be shared equally between the Commonwealth on the one hand and the States on the other. His recommendation was accepted by all parties, and, so far as the Commonwealth was concerned, involved writing off an additional amount of approximately £2,600,000 as from the 30th June, 1927. This position was dealt with briefly in the budget speech of 1929-30, and an announcement was made that the Commonwealth accepted the recommendation of Mr. Justice Pike, and would in due course take action accordingly, after the States had accepted and ratified the resulting agreement.

The total losses as found by Mr. Justice Pike were approximately £24,000,000. Under his recommendation the Commonwealth was asked to bear one-half of that sum, namely £12,000,000, but towards that half there was taken into account the financial assistance which had previously been given under these various headings by the Commonwealth to the States. Briefly summarizing the directions in which the Commonwealth has helped the States in this matter, the 50 per cent, of the responsibility assumed by this Government is made up as follows : -

The two amounts of £5,000,000 and £2,600,000 I have already referred to From the 1st January, 1931, the interest charged to the States on outstanding loans was reduced from actual cost to a flat rate of 5 per cent, and subsequently, following the floating of the large internal conversion loan in Australia, the rate was further reduced, as from the 31st July, 1931, to 4 per cent.

The agreement, the execution of which was delayed for various reasons, and which is attached to the bill and thereby submitted to Parliament for approval, deals, broadly speaking, with the following main subject headings : -

  1. The classes of persons eligible for settlement under the agreement ;
  2. The acknowledgment by the

States of sums advanced to them by the Commonwealth;

  1. The acknowledgment by the Com monwealth of the remission of portion of the indebtedness of the States;
  2. The rates of interest payable by the States;
  3. The maximum rates of interest chargeable to settlers; (/) The engagement of the States to complete a satisfactory settlement of the settlers who have remained on the land, particularly in regard to home maintenance areas.

The balance of the loans now due by the States to the Commonwealth, after allowing for the writing-off of the £7,600,000 previously detailed, is approximately £27,000,000. Clause 15 of the agreement provides that from the 1st July, 1933, this sum shall be regarded as a debt owing by the States to the public, instead of as a debt owing by the States to the Commonwealth Government.

Mr Francis:

– What is the difference?

Mr CASEY:

– It is merely a matter of machinery, with the object of simplifying inter-governmental accounting. The clause has been agreed to by all the States. As previously stated, effect has been given in the accounts of the Commonwealth and the States to the financial provisions of this agreement in respect to the writingoff of the £5,000,000 from October, 1925, and the subsequent further sum of £2,600,000 from June, 1927, the action in both cases having been carried out after being dealt with in this House.

I shall explain how the financial agreement comes into this picture. In the financial agreement the totals of the States’ debts as at 30th June, 1927, which were subsequently taken over by the Commonwealth, are set down specifically. This new agreement affects these totals of debts as between the Commonwealth and the States, and consequently it is necessary to amend the financial agreement in respect of those altered totals. The amount of £5,000,000 to be written off as from October, 1925, was deducted in computing the debts of the States for the purposes of the financial agreement, but the further amount of £2,600,000 to be written off, which was a subsequent development, was not deducted from the States’ debts. Consequently a clause is provided in the agreement, the effect of which is to reduce the net debt of the States as at the 30th June, 1927, as set out in the financial agreement, by approximately that amount of £2,600,000.

In drafting the agreement the opportunity was taken to make a small amendment in one of the clauses of the financial agreement itself, relating to membership of the Australian Loan Council. In explanation, I remind honorable members that in order to amend the financial agreement in any respect it is necessary to come to an agreement and to have it ratified by all the parliaments of the States and the Commonwealth. That, of course, means rather a major operation. [Quorum formed.’] I was endeavouring, when interrupted, to explain to the House the reason for the introduction of an amendment of the financial agreement into this agreement, which relates to soldier settlement loans. In, the experience of the administration of the financial agreement and the Loan Council, a point has arisen which, in the opinion of the various governments, has necessitated a clarification of one of the clauses of the financial agreement. As no amendment could be made of the financial agreement other than by another agreement and its ratification by law by all the parliaments of Australia, the opportunity of the introduction of this bill in each Parliament was taken as a convenient means of introducing the small amendment necessary. The financial agreement provides for a Loan Council consisting of “ One Minister of State of the Commonwealth to be appointed in writing from time to time by the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth to represent the Commonwealth, and one Minister of State of each State to be appointed in writing from time to time by the Premier of that State to represent that State.” ‘ In most cases the Prime Mini sters and Premiers were also the respective Treasurers of their Governments, and it was desirable for them to nominate themselves in many instances as members of the Loan Council. Some doubt has been expressed as to whether the Prime Minister or a Premier could legally appoint himself as a representative of his Government to the Loan Council, and, in order to clarify the matter, provision has been made in clause IS of this agreement to amend the financial agreement so that the Prime Minister and the Premiers of the States shall be ex officio members of the Loan Council, with, of course, the right to appoint substitute representatives should they choose to do so. Apart from these two minor alterations the agreement does not alter the financial agreement in any way, and I give the House the assurance that neither does the agreement in any way affect the future administration of soldier land settlement. “With that brief explanation of the bill, I commend it to the House and hope that honorable members will give it a speedy passage.

Mr Francis:

– “Will the Acting Treasurer explain why the reservation “ other than the State of Queensland “ is inserted in clause 12 of the agreement as it ap.pears on page 5 of the bill ?

Mr CASEY:

– I cannot tell the honorable member the reason offhand, but I undertake to inform him during the course of the debate. It would be more appropriate if the honorable member asked the question in committee, but I can assure him that the matter has been accepted freely by Queensland, and I am not aware of any dispute, either present or in the past, in regard to the clause to which he draws attention.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Forde) adjourned.

page 1055

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1935-36

In committee: Consideration resumed from the 8th April (vide page 997).

Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to. The schedule.

The Parliament.

Proposed vote, £40,460.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

.-Honorable members are aware that, after Parliament rises, it will not re-assemble before the 1st July next, and consequently it is necessary to make provision for carrying on the services of the Commonwealth during the early months of next financial year. The Supply Bill which is now submitted for the consideration of honorable members includes provision for the first three months of the financial year 1935-36. The committee is asked to appropriate £6,704,400, which includes the following sums for ordinary services: -

The items making up these sums are based on the appropriations passed by Parliament for the present year, and represent approximately one-quarter of the appropriation, except in a few cases where expenditure is relatively heavy in respect of any item in the early part of the year. In addition, the usual provisions are made for “Refunds of Revenue “ and for “ Advance to the Treasurer “. The amount set down for “ Refunds of Revenue “ is £500,000, and for “ Advance to the Treasurer “ £1,500,000. This latter item is required to carry on uncompleted works in progress on the 30th June, 1935, and other urgent works, and to cover unforeseen and miscellaneous expenditure, including special grants to South Australia, Western Australia and “Tasmania. These special grants will be continued on the same bases as during the present financial year, pending the introduction of new legislation.

Provision is made in this bill only for the amount which is estimated to be sufficient to carry on essential services on the same basis as that provided for in the appropriation for the current financial year 1934-35. No provision is made for any new expenditure, or for any departure from existing policy.

It is usual, when introducing a bill of this kind, to make a statement regarding the progress of the Commonwealth finances for so much of the year as has elapsed. The year so far has been

Mr. Casey. marked by a continuance of the buoyancy of revenue which was experienced in the last financial year, with the result that the finances generally are in a very satisfactory position. Customs and excise revenue have continued on a high level, the collections for the nine months of this financial year being about £2,800,000 more than those for the corresponding period of last financial year, and £2,650,000 in excess of the pro rata budget estimate for this period. Post office revenue and sales tax collections have also been satisfactory, though the position in regard to income tax is still somewhat uncertain. I believe that there is a possibility, amounting almost to a probability, that the final receipts under this head will not be up to expectation. The revenue under other sub-heads has been normal. On the other hand, additional liabilities have been incurred since the budget was introduced, and expenditure under- various heads has exceeded the budget estimate. The proposals for relief to wheat-growers involves a total expenditure of over £4,000,000, against which flour tax receipts this year will probably amount to £750,000. Other expenditure increases include flotation expenses and interest in connexion with London loan conversions, unemployment relief works from revenue, and additional payments to States under the federal aid roads agreement, amounting to about £200,000. It is too early to make any reliable forecast of the financial results for the full year ending the 30th June next, but present indications are that they will be satisfactory.

The fact that the Government is asking for Supply for three months after the end of the present financial year does not mean that Parliament will not be called together until the expiration of that time. Supply is being sought for the first three months of the next financial year so that, when Parliament reassembles, it will not be necessary immediately to introduce another Supply Bill. The Government will thus be able to go on with its budget proposals without delay. I commend the bill to the committee.

Mr BEASLEY:
West Sydney

.’ - I move -

That the amount bc reduced by £1.

As a direction to the Government that a Parliamentary Select Committee, representative of all parties in this House, and assisted by qualified experts, be set up to inquire into the banking and monetary systems of Australia, I move this amendment now because I desire to avail myself of the last opportunity we shall have this session to discuss this very important subject. During the recent election campaign the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) stated that he would not oppose the holding of an inquiry into the banking and monetary systems if the new Parliament desired it. On the 20th February this year it was announced that Cabinet had decided to appoint a royal commission to conductsuch an inquiry. In a recent issue of the Sydney Morning Herald it was stated that the Prime Minister, during his visit to London, would probably investigate the possibility of obtaining the services of an overseas chairman for the royal commission. Before this, the Sydney Morning Herald, of the 7 th January, stated that the names of two business men had been mentioned as possible chairmen of the commission; one was Sir Walter Massy-Greene, who was Assistant Treasurer in Mr. Lyons’s first Ministry, and the other was Mr. E. C. Dyason, of Edward Dyason and Company, stockbrokers, and a director of many Victorian companies. Reports have also mentioned the names of Sir George Schuster, formerly economic and financial adviser to the Colonial Office, and a recent appointee to the position of director of the Westminster Bank ; Sir Charles Addis, a director of the Bank of England ; and Sir Josiah Stamp, another director of the Bank of England. Australians have a vivid recollection of other visits by overseas financial experts, and of what resulted therefrom. They have not yet forgotten the visit of the “Big Four “, or the visit of Sir Otto Niemeyer, and they do not want a repetition of the policies which were inflicted on this country as a result of those visits. If a chairman from overseas is appointed to this royal commission, as seems possible, the inquiry would become definitely suspect before ever it began.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Prowse).I fear that I shall have to rule out of order any further discussion on the lines which the honorable member has been following. The honorable member is in order in moving that the amount of the proposed vote be reduced by £1, but he may not enter upon a discussion which would anticipate debate on a motion already on the notice-paper.

Mr BEASLEY:

– The motion on the notice-paper has to do with the appointment of a royal commission to inquire into the banking and monetary systems of Australia. I do not propose to trespass on that ground. I do not want a royal commission to be appointed; I want a Parliamentary Select Committee to inquire into these matters.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Nevertheless the honorable member seeks an inquiry into the banking and monetary systems of Australia, and necessarily any debate on that matter must cover the same ground as a debate on the motion already on the notice-paper.

Mr BEASLEY:

– It may be true that the honorable member who has given notice of that motion desires to reach the same goal as myself, but we propose to travel by different roads, and it may well be that, as a result, we may arrive at different destinations.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I shall hear the honorable member further in order to determine whether the debate will be in order.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Parliament cannot any longer shirk its responsibilities, but must institute an immediate inquiry into our banking and monetary systems in view of the fact that, at the last elections, 1,300,000 electors voted for a radical change in the present banking system. The opinion that it would be undesirable to obtain from abroad a chairman for the royal commission is even shared by the Government’s most ardent newspaper supporter, the Melbourne

Herald, which, in a leading article published in its issue of 11th December, 1934, stated -

It is difficult to imagine what form of inquiry instituted by the Australian Government could effect a useful purpose. The usual procedure … is for the Government to appoint a royal commission and to define the scope of its investigations. The Government would . . . have to obtain, as members of the commission of inquiry, persons who were acknowledged to be very learned in the science of economics, but who have not been identified with any of the semi-political discussions on monetary policy that have been exercising Australia for the past three years. So far as Australia is concerned, probably all those who could be regarded as its leading authorities . . . have taken a prominent part in public discussions, and . . . have ruled themselves out as the unbiased judges whose findings would be generally accepted, nor would it be much use searching outside Australia for the authorities who could take the evidence and give a finding on the monetary policy as settling the matter for Australia.

Pew members can deny that the most effective method of inquiry would be to appoint a parliamentary committee on which all parties would have adequate representation, with facilities to obtain whatever technical and expert assistance they might require. The two recent inquiries in America, which unveiled grave financial scandals in connexion with the banking trust of the United States of America and the diabolical activities of the international armaments ring, showed what was possible with the flexible instrument of a parliamentary committee that was in contact with, and responsive to, popular feeling, as well as being directly accountable to the electors for the discharge of its functions. On the question of the scope of the proposed royal commission, the stated intention of the Government recently made clear by the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Casey), who said that the terms of reference were the responsibility of the Government, must be strenuously resisted. If the scope of the commission were restricted or circumscribed, this action could be interpreted only as a friendly and partisan gesture towards the banks, which obviously have a case to answer. It has been admitted, in quarters that have no affiliations with the Labour movement, that if one-half of the facts set out by the Leader of the Labour party of New South Wales, Mr. Lang, in his recent volume Why I Fight, are accepted, the private banks should be hounded out of the community life of this country.

There is an adequate field for an inquiry by a tribunal that is determined to get at the truth. To appoint a commission on which the 1,300,000 electors who voted for the nationalization of banking were not given definite representation would be to make it a mockery of justice, and to confirm the belief that the banks control the governments of to-day. Therefore, I claim that Parliament should set up its own committee of inquiry, and decide itself on the scope of the investigation. At least, Parliament must decide the terms of reference of any royal commission on this vital subject.

The recent experience of the Petrol Royal Commission alone shows that, in general, these commissions are not only costly but also expert time-spinners. Even the Sydney Morning Herald, referring to the proposed royal commission on banking, declared on the 7th January last -

If the inquiry is instituted immediately it will probably take twelve or eighteen months to complete, and the expense incurred would probably make it rank with the royal commission on petrol as an item of federal expenditure.

For -the reasons I have given, the duty of Parliament to appoint such a commission cannot be shirked. No one will deny that the banking system must be probed, and a means evolved of placing the control of money and credit in the hands of the people, instead of allowing it to remain in the grip of profit-makers. As early as 1930, Mr. Lang declared that the depression had been caused by a money shortage, and not a goods shortage. At least one portion of Mr. Lang’s plan has since been implemented by an extensive, although not completely satisfactory, reduction of interest rates. But that was not done until the purchasing power of the people had been severely restricted through heavy cuts in wages and pensions, and because of widespread unemployment brought about mainly by the cancellation of bank overdrafts.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member should not go too deeply into the matters to which he is now referring.

Mr BEASLEY:

– I wish to establish the necessity for an inquiry by the Parliament. It seems quite clear that the countries whose representatives have been prepared to defy the banks have obtained a better deal from them than those countries in which the people have been content with the present system. Mr. Lang said -

France got a better deal from the financial institutions because Frenchmen stood mp for their country. Italy got favorable treatment because her statesmen were Italians first. When Britain held the pistol at America’s head she, too, got a greater measure of justice. Why cannot Australians stand up for Australia? I say that every Australian worth his’ salt will desire to fight it out. [Leave to continue given.’]

Yet Australia came under the domination of the overseas banking ring. Because of Sir Otto Niemeyer, of the Bank of England, Australia had foisted on it the Premiers plan. What benefits did invalid and old-age pensioners, public servants, farmers, the unemployed and private Australian bondholders get out of that plan? The only interests that received any benefit were the overseas bondholders and financial institutions. A recent report in the Melbourne Age, giving what appeared to be a statement inspired from London, read as follows : -

Sir Thomas Bavin, formerly Premier of New South Wales, when questioned on the Sth February, 1035, told n representative of the Australian Press Association that he had found among many banking and commercial representatives he had interviewed in London, the keenest interest in the next New South Wales elections . . They were convinced that any reversal of the policy . . would have a deplorable effect on Australia’s credit in London, which now stood high in consequence of the determination to adhere to the Premiers plan.

The Age report intimated that the gentlemen interviewed by Sir Thomas were Sir Ernest Harvey and Sir Otto Niemeyer, of the Bank of England, Sir Robert Home and Mr. S. M. Bruce. Incidentally, the Argus and the Sydney Morning Herald discreetly omitted any mention of these names. I have shown who received the benefits of Sir Otto Niemeyer’s precious plan, and it is well to remember that Sir Ernest Harvey was the gentleman who came from the Bank of England to advise the then Prime Minister, Mr. Bruce, how effectively to emasculate the Commonwealth Bank. The spectacle of these two collaborating again does not bespeak good for the Australian people.

The nation must be given control of the monetary and financial -system in order to free it from the bankers’ domination-

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member should direct his remarks more to the personnel of the suggested inquiry.

Mr BEASLEY:

– I have shown that the credit system is under the domination of the banks. The personnel of a committee of inquiry should be such that its members would have no association whatever with the banks. At the present time, money is manufactured by the private banking system alone. Goods are manufactured by producers. Banks demand a money return and will not accept goods as repayment. If this inquiry were made by a number of economists whose names have been prominently before the public in the last three years, we could not expect to have the facts of the situation frankly presented to the public. The financial institutions accept payment only in what they themselves manufacture, and of which they have a complete monopoly. The private money monopoly has the farmer and all other producers just where it wants them, and manifests a more sinister influence by its power to destroy money than by its power to create it. The present monetary and credit systems have failed, and those in control have brought forward no remedial measures to check the pitiful paradox of poverty in the midst of plenty. Furthermore, in its greed for profits, the system has resisted, by every fair or foul means, the nationalization of credit - the only solution of the problem of promoting national wellbeing - and has fought to preserve private control which has profit-making as its sole purpose.

When he became President of the United States of America, Mr. Roosevelt found the private banking system in a state of complete collapse, and it was only when he commenced his programme of progressive nationalization of credit resources, that the American nation began to experience indications of returning prosperity. In January of this year, the French Chamber of Deputies authorized the issue of £69,000,000 in treasury bills to thaw out frozen capital. The

Melbourne Age, of the 7 th January, reported Mr. Lloyd George as declaring that “national control of the Bank of England is the key to economic recovery and reconstruction.”

World events have shown clearly that the private banking system must go. No more striking proof of the toll which it exacts, whilst unemployment stalks the world, is to be found than the recent announcement that three of the “ Big Five “ British banks disclosed increased earnings in 1934, and that dividends would be paid at the following rates:- Westminster Bank, 18 per cent.; Midland Bank, 16 per cent.; National Provincial Bank, 15 per cent. The Bank of New South Wales, in its report issued on the 30th November, 1934, disclosed net profits of £555,335, assets of £115,000, and a reserve fund of £6,500,000.

I have tried to establish in the minds of honorable members that this question is so important that an opportunity should have been presented for its consideration at a much earlier period of the session. However, I am glad to have had the present opportunity to present the case against the banks, because Parliament will shortly go into recess, probably until about September next. Meanwhile, many of the discussions hinging upon this subject will have been finalised and the House will not have had an opportunity to express its opinion. The appointment of a royal commission will be of little more avail than that which has been made into the operations of the major oil companies in Australia.

I conclude by saying that the economists whose assistance would bc sought have been- notably associated with the system which we are challenging to-day; consequently, a fair, impartial, and. unbiased report cannot be expected from that quarter. We declare that the only practicable way in which satisfaction can be given to the interests that we serve is to place the- responsibility upon this Parliament. . Let those who make the investigation be given the expert assistance and technical advice that they need. I believe that then we should have presented to us a report in keeping with the facts, and should be able to go a long way towards dealing with this, the most important problem that confronts Australia and the world to-day. The CHAIRMAN. - For the information of honorable members I shall read two Standing Orders by which I propose to be guided in the conduct of this debate. It is not my intention to allow to other honorable members the latitude for which the honorable member for West Sydney has been good enough to thank me.

Standing Order No. 117 reads -

No motion or amendment shall anticipate an order of the day or another motion of which notice has been given. Standing Order No. 274 lays it down that-

No member shall digress from the subjectmatter of any question under discussion; nor anticipate the discussion of any other subject which appears on the notice-paper. I shall not permit digression from the form that the proposed commission should take.

Mr Rosevear:

– I rise to a point of order. According to the ruling just given, if a motion is placed on the noticepaper on the first sitting day, and is not proceeded with during the life of the Parliament, it is not competent for the Parliament to take any action along the lines proposed, nor along similar lines.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The Standing Orders that I have read are most explicit. There is on the notice-paper a motion which deals with this specific subject. An opportunity to discuss that subject will be given to honorable members when that motion is called on. The debate upon it cannot be anticipated.

Mr Rosevear:

– As I understand the matter, the motion on the notice-paper deals with the appointment of a royal commission to make an investigation into matters similar to those raised by the honorable member for West Sydney. Surely if an honorable member, or even the Government, should decide to recommend the adoption of some other course to attain the same objective, the matter might be debated irrespective of what appeared on the notice-paper! During the whole life of the last Parliament the notice-paper contained motions which were never dealt with. Surely the Standing Orders do not hamstring the Parliament to the extent of preventing the discussion of any matter that appears on the notice-paper I

The CHAIRMAN:

– The only matter that may be debated is the form of the commission. I cannot permit the anticipation of the debate on the merits of the banking system.

Mr Ward:

– I rise to order. If a debate took place on the particular motion which appeared on the noticepaper, it would hinge upon the necessity for the appointment of a royal commission, to inquire into the operations of the private banking system. If the debate which the honorable member for West Sydney has instituted by the moving of his amendment raises considerations relating to the necessity for the appointment of a parliamentary committee, how can it be said that a debate upon the necessity for appointing a royal commission is being anticipated?

The CHAIRMAN:

– It is my duty to see that the debate is confined to the form that the inquiry shall take. The merits of the banking system may not be debated, because such a debate would anticipate a motion on the notice-paper.

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– For some considerable time, those who have taken an interest in world affairs have been extraordinarily perturbed at the change which has developed in the international situation. After the last war, when the “Versailles Treaty was drawn up, arrangements were put in train by the majority of the nations of the world for a process of gradual disarmament that would keep pace with the disarmament enforced upon Germany by the terms of that treaty. It was not long, however, before nationalism raised its ugly head, and rivalry between nations began once more to lead to an increase of armaments. It is that which is responsible for the present deplorable state of affairs throughout the world.

The League of Nations itself has made no appreciable progress. Indeed, some of the first-class nations which originally were members have either withdrawn or given notice of the withdrawal of their support from it. Germany, the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics of Russia, and Japan, no longer have an active membership in the League, and the United States of America was never a member of it. Consequently, the world has more or less had to work in fragments, with the result that the nations have become more and more selfcontained and, so as to ensure that their trade and their national safety should be promoted, have gone to the length of increasing their armaments beyond their capacity to pay. Concurrently with the occurrence of trouble in the League of Nations, both the Washington Treaty and the London Treaty are about to expire, the one providing that there should be no fortifications in a specified area in the Pacific, and the other fixing a ratio of naval ‘armament which at its inception bade fair to bring about an era of peace throughout the world. Unfortunately, notice has now been given in accordance with the terms of that treaty by one of the signatories - Japan - of an intention to withdraw from it, and other nations which have complied with the agreement with respect to naval armaments, and have gone even further than was required by the mere letter of the treaty, have now found it necessary to undertake naval construction to the limits allowed by it. While these events have been happening, it is unquestionable that Germany has been secretly rearming; but it was only lately that its bluff was called, and the open statement was made that it had raised its air forces as well at its land forces to a state of preparedness for war far beyond what was conceived by anybody. We are so far removed from the centre of operations that we are somewhat prone to get the wrong perspective. As recently as the 7th March last, a White Paper was issued by the Government of Great Britain. In the issue of it, the extraordinary course was adopted of having it initialled by the Prime Minister of Great Britain. It has only just arrived in Australia. Reading it, one must come to the conclusion that the position is very much worse than we had been led to believe. If the committee will bear with me for a moment, I shall read a few extracts from that official paper. It says -

The risks we have taken for peace cannot be continued indefinitely.

In the event of an aggression we should not be able to secure our sea communications, our food supplies, and the defence of our people against air attack.

Those are momentous words, coming as they do from the Government which is at the centre of our Empire and depends absolutely for its existence upon safety from attack. Proceeding, the “White Paper says -

Dealing with the re-armament of Germany, the Government declares that if this rearmament continues at its present rate the existing anxieties of Germany’s neighbours will be increased and peace itself may be imperilled.

I do not believe that any honorable member has heard more ominous words since the week prior to the outbreak of hostilities in 1914. Another paragraph reads -

The Government also cannot overlook the increase in armaments in Russia, in Japan, in the United States of America, and elsewhere.

The White Paper then goes* on to deal with some of Great Britain’s own requirements.

The Melbourne Argus, of the 6th inst., published a message from Japan containing a statement by the spokesman of the Japanese Foreign Office, which I believe has an important bearing that is not borne sufficiently in mind by our press and our people, upon the situation in Australia. Referring to the present conditions in Japan and China, and specifically to matters outside those countries, this gentleman said -

Why not let us alone?

He was referring to Japan. The quotation continues -

Sino-Japanese relations are becoming better, and mediation is superfluous. I understand that Britain disapproves of anyone lending money to China, but I do not comprehend British policy. Apparently London still thinks that Britannia rules the waves, including the China Sea, the Japan Sea, and the Pacific Ocean.

In the light of such a statement, surely it behoves us, first to bend all our energies towards peace, and secondly, to see that, until other nations look in the same direction as that in which we are looking, our own house is kept in order and sufficient provision is made to enable us to defend the heritage with which we have been entrusted. In every quarter of the world there is evidence of feverish rearmament. We know that some countries have increased their armaments without stint since 1923-24. We have not taken steps to keep pace with them.

Sitting suspended fro-m 12.^5 to 2 p.m.

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– In order to appreciate the change which has taken place in world conditions since the Versailles Treaty, we must also take note of geographical alterations. For instance, the map of Europe has been materially changed. Furthermore, one of the Asiatic nations has now control of territories which bring it so close to us as to make it almost one of our neighbours. Islands on the equator mandated to Japan are little more than 2,000 miles from Australia; and although I am prepared to accept the statement of the Japanese Government that it is not fortifying them. I contend that the harbour works and other works which are now being established there can be converted overnight to war purposes. So our isolation seems to be vanishing very quickly indeed.

Nearly every country in the world is increasing its armies and armaments. To a certain extent we have increased our expenditure on defence, but not to anything like the degree other countries have. In 1924 the United States of America spent £48,000,000 on its ai-my and £69,000,000 on its navy. Last year it spent £53,400,000 on its army and £121,000,000 on its navy. In 1924 Japan spent £20,300,000 on its army compared with £70,000,000 this year, whilst its expenditure on its navy was £24,500,000 in 1924 compared with £54,000,000 this year. The figures for France show a similar increase. Russia spent 464,800,000 roubles on its army in 1924, and 1,450,000,000 roubles in 1923, while in 1934, the latest year for which figures are available, it spent 5,000,000,000 roubles. Converted at the only rate of exchange we can apply to this figure, that is the rate which existed before Russia ceased relations with the outside world, the last figure equals £526,000,000 sterling. As all these countries are continuing to increase their expenditure on armaments, we must abandon our former policy of disarmament and follow their example if we are to retain this continent. We find that the latest British White Paper dealing with expenditure in armaments states -

The army alao requires to be modernized by the provision of up-to-date equipment, mechanization transport and reserves of war material of all kinds which have fallen below required standards.

The warning is given tha.t “ if these essentials are not provided the army, if ever called upon for action, would find itself exposed to heavy loss, suffering and possible disaster “.

In existing conditions an additional expenditure on the armaments of the three defence services can no longer be safely postponed.

Mr BRENNAN:
UAP

– What is Great Britain doing ?

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– I propose now to quote the expenditure by Great Britain in its effort to secure itself and those outlying portions of the Empire which are in any way unable to help themselves. In 1924 Great Britain spent £50,000,000 on its army, compared with £43,500,000 this year, a reduction of £6,500,000. On ‘ its navy it spent £56,000,000 in 1924, and in the Estimates brought forward last month it proposes to repair some of the wastage and damage caused to its fleets over recent years and for this purpose this year will spend £60,000,000. Also its expenditure on the air force will be increased from £15,000,000 to £24,000,000. ‘ Such is the increased expenditure proposed by a nation which has led every country in the movement for universal peace. But the commitments which Britain has to face in other parts of the world precludes that country from affording protection to Australia. There can be no beating about the bush in this matter. We in Australia are therefore obliged to make some effort on our own part to protect ourselves. With this end in view the Commonwealth Government last year allocated £4,000,000 for the establishment of a trust fund. It is to be commended for its action in this respect, but we are not yet doing sufficient for any one of the three services of the armed forces to keep pace with efforts in this direction by other countries.

It is interesting to examine the expenditure per capita of the population in various countries for defence purposes. This figure exceeds 45s. a head in Great Britain, about 30s. in the United States of America, 20s. in Japan and 15s. lOd. in Australia. Leave to continue given.]

Our estimated expenditure on defence for the current year from all sources including loan money and allocations for the manufacture of munitions and overhead costs, amounts to Ss. a head of the population on naval expenditure, 4s. lid. for the army and 2s. lid. for the air force, making a total of 15s. lOd. a head in Australian currency.

In this matter this Parliament has an obligation to fulfil to the people of Australia. We have sincerely tried to achieve peace through disarmament. The Scullin Government, when in power, made a gesture in this direction. I understand that when he attended a conference at Geneva on this subject, the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) was able to tell the conference that Australia had disarmed. Never was a truer word spoken concerning this matter as it affects Australia, because we had, at that time, not only disarmed, but had emasculated forces which had been built up on the traditions of the A.I.F. To-day we are faced with the problem of re-forming our defences. We have to provide an insurance fund of some sort, and we have made a start in this direction by the purchase of a cruiser. This, however, does not complete our obligation under our agreement with Great Britain to provide for our own defence. So far as the navy is concerned, we are still one cruiser short. This position may be rectified later. As regards the air force we find that Great Britain proposes to increase its air force by 50 squadrons, the increase to be spread over last year, this year and next year. Even then Great Britain will remain only the sixth nation in the world as an air power, Germany, France, Russia, Italy and the United States of America taking precedence over Great Britain in that respect. This fact may come as a shock to some of us who, because we have been accustomed to see only British aeroplanes in this country, have probably been led to believe that Britain is one of the greatest air powers.

Australia’s requirements from the point of view of an air force, are different from those of Great Britain. This is because we need a certain type of plane to cover our long distances, and hecause the facilities for providing those planes in Australia are not at the moment sufficient to allow us to supply ourselves with up-to-date machines. For these we must go overseas, and in the event of hostilities we would have to depend on overseas purchases for supplies of heavy replacements.

I now come to deal with the land forces what were once considered as the senior branch of our forces, but are now in a sense the cinderella of those forces. Whatever opinion we may hold concerning the relative values of the various arms of defence the importance of the army cannot be overlooked. A fleet can be drawn away from our shores by a feint attack, whilst an air force, as an effective means of warfare, has not been actually tested. The burden then of our defence must rest on our land forces. , The Commonwealth Government has already undertaken to increase our coastal defences at certain points. That is to its credit, because in some cases these defences were almost as old as myself, but the modern guns which are to be installed at one or two points in our coastal defences, if they do not give us complete security, should at least act as a deterrent to any attack on those shores. We have a coastline of 12,500 miles on which an enemy could instal itself before being detected. Such an invader would before all have to be dislodged and this duty would fall upon the army. To accomplish this successfully we’ need a mobile army.

Recently the Government conducted certain experiments with a view to the mechanization of our army. A start has been made in taking a census of the ordinary civil transport in order to ascertain how far it might be convertible in an emergency for defence purposes. In a small way we have gone further than this with a view to standardizing civil transport for this purpose. I believe it is the Government’s duty to register all vehicles which comply with the requirements of a field army and, if necessary, to pay some form of subsidy as has been done in other countries, so that the Government, in the event of hostilities, should have first call upon these vehicles. A plan of this nature could b* worked out, and if the example set by other countries in this respect were followed, the owners of these vehicles would welcome a subsidy to keep their vehicles in good running order.

We have also to consider frankly the problem of armaments. Big rearmament schemes are now being undertaken in other countries. One development in this respect is the provision of better and more effective automatic rifles for the work which the army is required to do. This would take a considerable amount of money, but it would be futile to put our men into action with obsolete weapons against a highly-trained force of men with modern equipment. It would not only be useless, but also murder. The blood of the men lost would be on the heads of the members of this Parliament. We must see that our men are properly equipped before we think of sending them into action. We have practically no anti-aircraft equipment in this country, yet if hostilities should occur here we should be attacked by fleets of aeroplanes spreading death and destruction everywhere.

I could go ou calling attention to facts of this description, but I wish to direct the attention of honorable members to the necessity for having available an adequate force of trained men. At present the position of our army in this respect, as in mally others, is deplorable. We have a training strength of less than 25 per cent., and everybody knows that if the army went into action the first shock of battle would greatly deplete even this poor strength. The wastage in modern warfare is so high that it can be safely said that after a force has been mobilized and put into active service it is necessary to have 60 per cent, of replacements for war and wound wastage in the first twelve months. We, therefore, need to build on to our skeleton 75 per cent, of its strength if we wish to have a force that would be in any sense adequate for a campaign. Such a force is the very foundation upon which our safety rests. Those who have seen units nominally at full training strength go into action know how deplorable it is to find that- when the specialists are taken out there are often no men to do the ordinary rifle work of the battalion. I ask the members of the Government to deal seriously with this subject of reserves. One of the best statements made recently about the army was that of the Minister for Defence (Mr. Parkhill) who told us that he proposed to place the whole situation before the Council for Defence. I believe that the members of that council are fully seized with the gravity of that situation, and will make it abundantly clear to the Government that the present strength of our units is unsatisfactory, and that the present methods of recruitment for reserves are such as to court disaster if any trouble should, overtake us.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- In supporting the amendment of the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley), I wish to make a few observations on some subjects of major importance to Australia. During the election campaign great prominence was given to a promise on behalf of the Government that a full and exhaustive inquiry would be made into the operations of those who control the private finance of the Commonwealth, and early this session an honorable member gave notice of his intention to move for the appointment of a royal commission to inquire into the general subject of finance. The honorable member for West Sydney and other members of the party with which I have the honour to be associated believe that no useful purpose would be served by appointing a royal commission to inquire into this subject. We hold the view that much more useful work could be done by a committee representative of all the parties in this Parliament making a complete inquiry into the operations of the controllers of our private financial operations. Although I do not think, for a moment, that the Government would give effect to any recommendations that such a body might make, I believe that a great deal could be done by the committee to expose the operations of those private financiers who are using the credit resources of the nation for their own profit and not for the welfare of the people. Under existing conditions a royal commission could serve no useful purpose, for it would not have power to compel witnesses to answer the questions put to them. Moreover, it would probably hold most of its im- portant sittings in camera. Evidence taken behind closed doors in this way is of little value to the people at large. It will be remembered that soon after the Petrol Commission was constituted, the then Attorney-General (Mr. Latham), succeeded in having an amendment made to the commission’s terms of reference which gave it power te take evidence in camera. Only yesterday the reports of the various members of that commission were tabled in this House. The chairman of the commission, Mr. E. Lamb, K.C., expressed regret, in his minority report, that he was unable to disclose the actual profits of the major oil companies operating in Australia. He was not able to do so because of the effect of the amendment made to the commission’s terms of reference at the instance of the then Attorney-General. Mr. Lamb’s two associate commissioners were opposed to his view-point, but the members of this party believe that the chairman took the right attitude. If the major oil companies were not making exorbitant profits why was there any need to hide the facts? If their profits were exorbitant the people of Australia were entitled to be given the full facts of the situation in the report. The absence of this information from the reports of the commission has left us with incomplete information.

In the course of this debate, and on other occasions, we have learned that certain honorable members of this Parliament desire steps to be taken to ratify the Statute of Westminster. I know that some honorable gentlemen hold the view that the ratification of that statute would increase the powers of this Parliament, while others contend that it would actually only restate the facts as they are at present. I do not think, however, that any honorable gentleman of the committee would be foolish enough to make a public announcement that he believed that the Commonwealth Parliament should not be the supreme governing authority of Australia, with status equal to that of the British legislature: and that we should not have full power to determine, from time to time, all the major issues submitted to us affecting the well-being of the people of the Commonwealth. But, in spite of all that has been said on this subject, it cannot be denied that, under existing conditions, the elected representatives of the people who form this Parliament are being kept in a subservient position. Although we may have read in the’ report of the Imperial Conference of 1926 - and it was repeated in the report of the conference of 1930 - a statement to the effect that the dominions were no longer subservient to the Imperial Parliament, the inaction of the Commonwealth Government in respect to the ratification of the Statute of Westminster has left us in a subservient position. We have been told, on occasions, that the Imperial Parliament, having passed the act constituting the Commonwealth of Australia, can now, or in the future, revoke, amend or repeal that measure. The same may be said of the Statute of Westminster. But I remind honorable members that it is one thing for the Imperial Parliament to make a decision of this description and quite another for it to attempt to override any decision of the Commonwealth Parliament and then enforce its view on the people of this dominion. I find, on looking back over certain happenings in this country during a period of years, that the right of the Commonwealth Parliament was challenged on one occasion by the Colonial Sugar Refining Company when it refused to submit certain evidence to a royal commission. The company obtained the requisite certificate from the High Court and made an appeal to the Privy Council, in which it’ questioned the power of the Commonwealth Parliament to pass the Royal Commissions Act. The Privy Council decided that the Commonwealth Parliament did not possess such power. In these circumstances, the Commonwealth Government of the day should not have neglected to take the earliest available opportunity to intimate to the Imperial authorities that Australia regarded itself as having complete control of its own affairs, and that the representatives the people elected to this Parliament would not submit to any overriding of their decisions or those of the High Court of Australia. I do not suggest, for a moment, that the decisions of the gentlemen who sit on the High Court Bench, or the expressed opinions of the members of this Government, do not sometimes savour of a desire to limit the operations of this Parliament, but the Labour Party, at least, should make quite clear our determination that the people of Australia shall be the master? of their own affairs. It seems to me> however, that certain provisions of the Constitution were framed to meet the day when a Labour government, with the courage’ of its convictions and a determination to carry its policy into full effect, would occupy the treasury bench. I believe that certain provisions have been included in the Constitution which would make it exceedingly difficult for even a. Labour government with an adequate majority in both Houses of the Parliament to proceed to carry out its policy. Such a government would have to make radical changes in regard to the political structure of the State. Some people hold the view, wrongly, I think that the Commonwealth Constitution can be amended in any respect provided that the people of Australia act in a certain way; but it seems to me that certain provisions of the Imperial act constituting the Australian Commonwealth imply that in some respects our Constitution can be altered only by the Imperial Parliament itself. This is a matter of major importance, and if failure to remedy these disabilities means that the Commonwealth Parliament is to be hampered in its operations, it is time that a radical change was effected in the situation. As an Australianborn citizen, I assert that no authority outside of the Commonwealth should be able successfully to challenge the right of this Parliament to deal with the problems of this country. The Imperial Parliament would instantly resent any attempt to interfere with its authority to enforce its decisions, and so, I submit, should the Commonwealth Parliament. Some honorable members opposite may hold the view that Australia should remain in subservience to the Imperial authorities, notwithstanding that the claim has been made time and again that we are a selfgoverning community. We may pretend to ourselves that we are the masters of our fate, but in certain respects the people of Australia have remained vassals of the Imperial Parliament ever since the colonies were founded; and until it i3 made abundantly clear that no outside authority has any power to veto the decision of this Parliament and of the High Court of Australia, it cannot be said that we are in very truth a self-governing community, lt has been stated in this chamber that the Statute of Westminster is simply a declaration of the existing position, imposing no additional responsibilities and conferring no additional powers on the Commonwealth Parliament. That is an assertion on which there may be a great difference of opinion. There is no gainsaying the fact that the Free State of Ireland., one of the members of the British Commonwealth of Nations, received its Constitution from its own legislative authority per ‘ medium of powers conferred on it by act of the Imperial Parliament, pursuant to the terms of agreement arrived, at between the two countries in°1922.

Mr Nairn:

– I rise to a point of order. I understand that you, sir, ruled that this discussion must be confined to a consideration of whether the proposed inquiry into banking and monetary reform should be by a royal commission or by a committee of members of this House.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member is under a misapprehension. I simply ruled that debate on a motion relating to that matter already appearing on the notice-paper must not be anticipated. The honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) is perfectly in order.

Mr WARD:

– The agreement arrived at between Great Britain and the Irish Free State was unalterable except by negotiations between representatives of the two nations. It was contended that the Statute of Westminster, which Was ratified by the Irish Free State, did not alter the position.; but the Irish legislature refused to allow itself to remain subservient to the British legislature, although it recognized that it was still in the British Commonwealth of Nations on account of allegiance to a common sovereign. It decided to abolish the oath of allegiance, and did so. Although there have been protests that that measure was illegal, no action has been taken to compel the Irish Free State to alter its decision.

Mr Nairn:

– Will you permit me, sir, to re-state my point of order? It is that the amendment before the committee does not justify a general discussion of the constitutional powers of the Commonwealth. I submit that the honorable member for East Sydney is entering upon such a discussion, and is therefore well outside the scope of the amendment.

The CHAIRMAN:

– What is before the Chair is the first item of the schedule, to which an amendment has been moved to reduce the amount by fi. The honorable member must be under a misconception of the position. Because of the wording attaching to the amendment, he presupposed that the financial and monetary system could be discussed, but as that matter is set down on the. notice-paper for discussion to-day, I was unable to allow it to be discussed upon the amendment. The time of the honorable member for East Sydney has expired. (Leave to continue given.]

Mr WARD:

– I was endeavouring to show that the Commonwealth Parliament does not possess sufficient powers to give effect to a policy approved of by the Australian community. Until the Australian people, through their representatives, are prepared to stand up for their rights, and demand that their own Parliament shall have authority to legislate as they determine, it will not be possible to give effect to a policy which is in the best interests of the Australian community. There is before us at this moment an illustration of how the Imperial authorities, no matter what their public protestations may be, are able to dominate and influence the decisions of the Australian Government. We have on the other side of the world a High Commissioner, who was previously Prime Minister of Australia and for many years a member of the present Government. He, in my opinion, is a more able representative of British imperialism than he is of the Australian people. He has been able to communicate to this Government the decisions arrived at and the opinions held by the British authorities, and to influence the counsels of this Government through that channel to such a degree that Ministers in this chamber have been prepared, on every available occasion, to retract the statements they made when they appeared before the electors, and give effect to a policy which is not in the best interests of the Australian community. Earlier in the debate, mention was made of the fact that we had in this country a democracy which was worth maintaining. If democracy means anything, it should at least mean the right of the people to have the final word as to the policy to be followed by the Government. Unfortunately, the people have the opportunity to express their views only once every three years. Any party can go before them and espouse a certain policy, but the electors have no guarantee that, when returned as a government, it will give effect to the policy which they approve of, and no legal power to compel it to . do so. During the last election campaign the members of the Government, including the right honorable the Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page), said that it was a doctrine of despair, so far as Australia was concerned, to suggest that she should restrict her exports of primary products. They declared that they would not favour a policy of restriction, but immediately the Imperial authorities communicated their wishes to the Commonwealth Government, they were prepared meekly to bow the knee.

Mr Lazzarini:

– They said they could not help themselves.

Mr WARD:

– Tes, they pleaded that they were forced into that position. At least the Australian people should be told the actual state of affairs. They should know that this Parliament sits for no other purpose than to give effect to decisions arrived at on the other side of the world. The honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) who has noticed in the press statements made by the supporters of the Government, has done right in calling attention, to the intention of the Government to find on the other side of the world a chairman for the royal commission which it promised to appoint to inquire into the operations of private banking in Australia. The Prime Minister himself said, I think, that he pro posed to take steps in that direction when in London, so that a chairman who would not hold fixed opinions in regard to the operations of private banking in Australia could be secured. No doubt the Prime Minister will consult the British Government, which at the moment is composed of men whose duty and function it is to protect the vested interests which primarily they represent. The British Government will then doubtless recommend to the Prime Minister as chairman some gentleman who shares their fixed opinions with regard to the operations of private business concerns. That gentleman, when appointed, will conduct any inquiry that may be held, not with a view to delving into the operations of the private banks, and discovering how they militate against the interests of the general community, but rather as a white-washing campaign to lull the public into a sense of security. He will do his best to convince the people of Australia that there is nothing that requires to be hidden in the operations of the private banks, and that they are really carried on in the best interests of the whole Commonwealth.

The honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. E. E. Harrison) stressed the necessity for increased expenditure upon defence. I have tried from time to time in this Parliament to impress upon honorable members that the best defence we can have in this country is to give the people a decent living standard, in order to give them an incentive to defend it. I heard questions asked to-day with regard to the unsatisfactory position of recruitment for the armed forces of Australia. If it were not for the economic conditions prevailing outside, the position of recruitment would be much worse than it is at the present time, because many men joined up with the armed forces in order to obtain the food and clothing that they so much require. On the other hand, if the living standard of the whole community was raised, in order to give them something that they believed worth defending and fighting for, there would be no need for patriotic speeches to stimulate recruitment, because every member of the community would then be prepared to take up arms in defence of this country if the occasion arose to do so. The history of Australia shows that many of our defence arms have been declared obsolete long before their term of usefulness has expired. The reason is that those interested in the manufacture of armaments are able to influence the decisions of departmental officials, and of members of this chamber, and consequently recommendations have continually come forward that certain portions of our armament are obsolete, necessitating the purchase or construction of new and additional equipment. As regards the spending of money upon armaments, what guarantee can this Parliament or the people of the Commonwealth hav« that they will not in the future be involved in wars in the making of which they have no say, and of which they do not approve? So long as we are under Imperial domination, the British authorities can determine when we shall go to war, and, under the existing Constitution, if they had the courage or desire to do so, they could actually impose conscription upon the manhood of Australia without referring the matter to this Parliament or to the people of the Commonwealth. I should not be prepared to vote additional expenditure on defence armaments under those conditions. There are many ways in which the money could be more usefully expended.

The Acting Treasurer (Mr. Casey) said that the financial position has materially improved. If it has, that, in the opinion of members on this side, is a particularly good reason why Parliament should continue to sit and give effect to what was promised to the electors during the election campaign. Up to the present the Government has done very little in that direction. Instead of expending the surplus revenue on purchasing implements of war, it would much better suit the Government to take care of the wreckage left over from the last war. During the last few weeks, honorable members have received numerous letters from ex-soldiers who are suffering from pulmonary tuberculosis, asking that the Government should grant them pensions. Many of these unfortunate men, who left this country believing that they were fighting for the preservation of democracy, and that Australia would take care of them when they re turned, or look after their dependants if they made the supreme sacrifice, are inmates of institutions throughout the various States, and are unprovided for by the Government because they are unable to prove that their particular disability is attributable to their war service. No more cowardly attitude has ever been adopted by any department or government than is typified by that particular provision which compels an unfortunate member of the community to prove that his disability is due to a particular cause. The mere fact that he is a sufferer from a dreadful complaint should bc sufficient to induce any government or community to come to his aid. In the opinion of the Labour party these men should be entitled to a pension without being under any obligation to prove that their disabilities are due to war service.

The Government has not yet done what it should for the invalid and old-age pensioners. Although, according to the Statistician’s figures, the cost of living increase dates from the 1st January of this year, the pensioners will not receive the 6d. a week addition to their pensions until July next. During the five months that Parliament will be in recess the pensioners will be passing through the winter months, the hardest months in the year for them, and they will not receive until July next even the meagre increase to which they are entitled. It is true that the Government has removed from the act certain obnoxious provisions, but it acted not from a praiseworthy desire to help the pensioners, but because it had found the provisions difficult to operate, and because, as a result of them, it was losing favour in the eyes of the electors. Just before the last election the Government indicated its readiness to repeal those provisions under which claims could be made against the relatives of pensioners, so that even the credit for that cannot be given to the present Government. When these specific items come up for discussion, honorable members on this side of the House will be able to cite instances of undue hardships being suffered by pensioners and those who have made applications for pensions.

The Government has been equally culpable in regard to its treatment of the unemployed. In fact, the unemployment position has not improved at all. Many of those who were previously classified as unemployed may at the moment be doing some work, but in New South Wales at any rate, thousands of men on relief work are worse off to-day under the antiLabour Stevens Government than they previously were when they drew the dole.

The CHAIRMAN:

-The honorable member’s time has expired.

Sir Donald CAMERON:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– I listened with a great deal of interest to the speech of the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. E. E. Harrison) whose opinions on- defence must naturally command respect both inside and outside the House. I maintain that the history of our time will record nothing finer than Britain’s gesture to the world on behalf of peace during recent years. The nations of the world have been sitting in almost endless conference in Geneva ; the deliberations of the Disarmament Conference have lasted for nearly three years, under the presidency of a man for whom I have the greatest regard - Mr. Arthur Henderson. During that time Britain progressively reduced its armaments, as an example to the other nations of the world. It reduced armaments almost to the point of madness, until at last it was realized that the process could not be carried further. The example which Great Britain had given was not followed. The smaller nations had always looked to Britain as the custodian of world peace, and I fear that this very action of Britain in reducing armaments, caused her to lose prestige. On the last occasion when I was in Geneva this fact was, in my opinion, demonstrated during the election of vicepresidents. On all previous occasions it seemed to be taken for granted that the British delegate should be returned at the head of the list of six vice-presidents, but, on this occasion, to my surprise, the list was headed by the delegate of another nation which had set out some years before to pile up armaments.

I have always maintained that the provision of measures for national security is the great obligation resting upon a national government. It was certainly a definite obligation taken over by the Commonwealth Government at the time of federation. I have sometimes been asked how I can reconcile my views on defence with my acceptance of the Government’s invitation to go to Geneva as one of its representatives upon more than one occasion. It is easy for me to make that reconciliation ; to do so it is only necessary to refer to Article 8 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. That article which is so clear, and yet so often misunderstood, contains these words -

The members of the league recognize that the maintenance of peace requires the reduction of national armaments to the lowest point consistent with national safety and the enforcement by common action of international obligations.

By virtue of that article it is incumbent on all nations which are signatories to the League Convenant, to take steps to provide for national defence, which is something quite different from piling up armaments in preparation for an aggressive attack upon other nations. I .am not a blood-thirsty scoundrel. My experience of three wars, with all their misery and suffering, and of their tragic aftermath, has made me wish ardently for peace in our time, and for successive generations. However, the condition of the world today is such that there can be enduring peace only if there is security, either collective or individual. I have a vivid recollection of my first visit to Geneva in 1922, when I sat on a committee which tried to draw up an agreement providing for the reduction of armaments by members of the league. It was a treaty providing for mutual guarantees, but even at that time it quickly became evident that we were engaged upon a hopeless undertaking. The representatives of some nations maintained that it would be impossible to have security without disarmament, while others said that it would be impossible to have disarmament without security. That agreement was never ratified.

I congratulate the present Government on its recognition of the great responsibility which devolves upon it for the maintenance of national security. Even those of us to whom the word “ war “ is anathema, realize that present world conditions make it essential that we should be in a position to defend ourselves if necessary against a potential enemy. We are the most peace-loving people in the world, and.

I say that with some knowledge of the world as one whose privilege it has been to travel in. most countries. We are anxious to maintain friendly relations with other countries, and to develop our great heritage in our own way. Nevertheless, it is our sacred duty as a people, and the inescapable duty of this Parliament, to prepare to defend ourselves against the aggressive action of any enemy, outside our gates. We must all admit that defence is only a measure of national insurance. Living as we do in an ordered community, we still find it necessary to maintain a police force, to have criminal courts and jails, and to lock our doors and windows. If such precautions are necessary to defend ourselves against internal enemies, how much more necessary is it that we should take adequate steps to defend ourselves against possible aggression from outside? I do not believe that war is looming, or that there is any immediate risk of it, but it remains true that the condition of the world is such that we cannot escape our obligations to provide for our own defence.

I am concerned, and so are other Queensland members, regarding the damage to the natural amenities, as well as to the commercial resources, of the Great Barrier Beef, which is certain to result from the uncontrolled exploitation of the marine wealth of that region. The press repeatedly reports the collection of immature trochus shells, and the destruction of bird life on and around the various islands and reefs in that area. Reference is also made to the visit of Japanese sampans to the reef, and it is urged that action be taken to police these waters. The collection of immature trochus shell will quickly denude the reefs of a source of considerable economic wealth. I understand that the Department of the Treasury in Queensland administers the Pearl Shell and Fisheries Act, and that the Queensland Department of Agriculture and Stock is concerned with the protection of bird life. I am anxious to know whether it would be possible for the patrol boat which, according to a statement of the Minister for Trade and Customs the other day, is to be stationed at Thursday Island, to help the State government in the more effectual policing of these acts. I shall be pleased if the Minister wi)l, in the course of his reply, indicate whether it will be possible for the co-operation of the Customs Department to be obtained towards this end.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne Ports

– Everybody must agree .that, in incurring heavy expenditure on defence, grave and important issues arise for consideration. The honorable member for Lilley (Sir Donald Cameron) has had a wide experience of war, and is no doubt sincere in expressing the hope that there will be no more wars; but I point out that on this subject there are two schools of thought, one of which claims that the continuance of the private manufacture of armaments has been the chief cause of the failure of -men like Mr. Henderson and others to bring about disarmament. I sat at Geneva in 1924 with men representing 46 different nations., and the fundamental principle upon which they were agreed was contained in clause 13 of the Peace Treaty, which outlined a new method of bringing about international peace. It was declared that there could be no hope of establishing international peace unless it was based on international justice. We have also in our midst a school of thought which still believes that the only means of providing security against war is to maintain the race in armaments. We have been chasing that shadow for hundreds of years. Although men would have been thrown into gaol during the last war for saying that all wars were caused by trade rivalries, it was laid down at Geneva that, in order to eliminate international jealousies, it was necessary to bring about international justice. It was recognized that this was based upon industrial and economic conditions, and therefore the International Labour Office was established, so that, in conjunction with the League of Nations, there would be a tri-partite conference composed of employers, employees, and government delegates. It was hoped that this conference, by meeting periodically, might bridge over the great gap between the nations which leads to unfair competition in trade, and makes international peace impossible. It was realized that, owing to cut-throat trade rivalry, international peace could be established only on the basis of social justice. Believing that, I have to draw swords with speakers like the honorable member for Lilley, who still harks back to the old theory that the sole hope of world peace is to go on piling up armaments.

Sir Donald CAMERON:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– I did not say that.

Mr HOLLOWAY:

– I admit that the honorable gentleman eulogized the efforts of Mr. Arthur Henderson and his colleagues in the direction of world disarmament. He pointed out that Great Britain had lit a torch and had attempted to bring about international peace. He said that it had taken more risks than most other nations, yet he was forced to the conclusion that the only course now open to us was to stiffen up our defence force.

Sir Donald CAMERON:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– To provide for national security.

Mr HOLLOWAY:

– That means the same old race of armaments - building more cruisers, strengthening our fortifications, and mounting more guns. As other nations are kept informed concerning what we are doing, this policy plays into the hands of the big armaments manufacturers, who have secret agents in nearly every cabinet in the world. To earn their princely incomes they strain every effort to induce governments to pass excessive naval and military estimates, and immediately they have succeeded in one country they send radio messages to other nations to induce them to incur similar expenditure. And so the race in armaments goes on.

Of course, the excuse is offered that, in increasing our expenditure on defence measures, we are merely making up for wastage. We are told that this expenditure is purely for the purpose of defence, and not for offence, the sole object being to provide for national security. No matter what specious arguments are advanced, the fact remains that the result is precisely in accordance with the wishes of the agents of the armaments firms. The honorable member for Lilley has taken part in three wars, and he knows that what I am saying is true. It has been suggested in the United States of America that in the cabinet of practically every country there is to be found a representative of the great armaments trust, whose duty is not to represent the electors, or to bother about the unemployed or rural rehabilitation, but to see that the war estimates are passed. A huge salary is paid to him for bringing about increased expenditure on armaments.

I keep closely in touch with the work of the League of Nations and the International Labour Office. I receive literature concerning their doings, and I correspond with the representatives of eight or nine different nations - gentlemen whom I have met at Geneva. They have all told me that the men who get heavy defence estimates through Cabinet earn ten times as large a salary as is paid to Ministers in Australia. The honorable member for Lilley must recognize the hopelessness of ensuring international peace by joining in the mad race of armaments.

Sir Donald CAMERON:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– I am definitely opposed, as is the honorable member himself, to the piling up of armaments for purposes of aggression.

Mr HOLLOWAY:

– I admit that. When I set out by saying that there were two schools of thought on this subject, I desired to convey to the honorable gentleman that I am not antagonistic to him. I know that he does not love war; in view of his experiences of it there would be something wrong with his brain if he did. But the party with which I am associated is just as earnest as he is to secure world peace. Let us cross swords in a friendly fashion, and try to find a better formula than the piling up of armaments.

To-day there are fewer markets for nations to fight over, and that makes the competition of markets more keen than ever before. The people of Japan are even more concerned than Australia is about the preservation of racial purity. The only danger of war arises from trade agreements and pacts such as were made at Ottawa, which push nations into rival groups. The best way to keep Australia out of future wars is for us to be friendly with our neighbours, and to trade with them, irrespective of colour, race or creed. Preferential duties should be avoided. We should not allow sentiment to warp our judgment. If we desire to be true to our Empire, we should avoid flabby sentimentality, and try to make Australia as self-contained as possible. We should stand on our- feet, and work in harmony with other nations. We should not insult Japan by taking trade away from that country and giving preference to Canada. The remarks of the honorable member for Lilley concerning his experience at Geneva remind me that Mr. Arthur Henderson and a representative of Austria both told me that they hated war, and hoped that the standard of living in their respective countries would be raised to something approaching that in Australia.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr JENNINGS:
Watson

.- I desire to refer as briefly as possible to two national questions that are being discussed in Australia to-day by hundreds of thousands of people who look to this Parliament for a lead in regard to them.

Within the last couple of weeks we have had under consideration the rehabilitation of Australia’s rural industries. While I am in accord with the policy of the Government in that regard, I believe that if Australia is to overcome her economic difficulties, the objective sought must be attained by natural rather than artificial means. The assistance that is being given to rural industries may be likened to that given to the unemployed ; it can be regarded only as a temporary expedient. In my opinion, the natural course is to prosecute with vigour the development of our overseas trade. This matter has been touched upon by the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) who has just resumed his seat. The Australian delegation at present in London is engaged on an important national mission, and I believe that the majority of the people of Australia trust that it will bring its negotiations to a successful issue. It is not desirable, however, that we should haggle about terms that are being arranged 12,000 miles away. We know the policy of the mission which is in accordance with Australian opinion. The misinterpretation in London of a speech delivered in this chamber might cost Australia millions of pounds per.annum I, therefore, consider that the negotiations overseas should be unhampered by misunderstood debates in Australia.

But there is another point that is deserving of consideration in connexion with our overseas trade. We can discuss, without danger, the enormous possibilities of trade between Australia and the East. The story cannot be told too often that just to the north of Australia there are the enormous markets of China, Java and the Straits Settlements. If we include Japan and the countries adjacent to Australia, it can be said that we have a population of 1,000,000,000 persons to draw upon. If we could consolidate this important item of Australian policy, our Empire trade question would not present such serious aspects. The more we consider the matter, the more convinced must we become that the market in the East is potentially the greatest of all for Australia. The American people have secured the great bulk of that trade by their well-known characteristic business methods. The United States of America has developed this eastern trade as a means of providing relief in connexion with unemployment. Australia could act similarly. It has th© necessary resources as well as business men with the requisite initiative, energy and enterprise to obtain equally good results. The people of the countries that I have mentioned, with an enormous population of 1,000,000,000 can consume far more than can be produced by the small population of 6,500,000 which Australia contains. It has frequently ‘been said that the peoples of the East are becoming more westernized ia regard to both food and clothing as the years go by. We are right at the door of that market, much closer to it than the United States of America; consequently, our freight costs would be correspondingly less. But the matter must be handled scientifically and systematically; goods should be standardized ; no consignments should go forward in inferior packages, and . have a detrimental effect upon our trade. The appointment nf trade commissioners in the East . . is overdue. These appointments should be speedily made, in order that this important item of Australian policy may be energetically implemented. ,

Another question’ of, national importance to the people of Australia relates to Our dual system of arbitration. One of the greatest constitutional authorities in Australia, the ex-Attorney-General, Mr. Latham, has stated that the existing arbitration system is little short ,of lunacy, and that our industrial problems will not be solved until a universal system is adopted. I believe that the present Attorney-General (Mi1. Menzies) holds the same view, and that all political parties agree that an alteration is desirable. There can be no doubt that industry is being crippled as the result of two authorities operating in the one field. Conflicting and overlapping awards cause constant unrest, confusion, antagonism, and bitterness. The wheels of industry are clogged, and unemployment is increased. The cost of production, paradoxically enough, is different in each State. The years are passing, yet we still allow this inane system to continue. I know that an amendment of the Constitution is necessary to effect an alteration.- I believe, however, that the people , of Australia would now welcome the opportunity to express their opinion, and 1, therefore, suggest that the matter be seriously considered by the Government’ during the. coming recess with the objective in view” of taking a referendum of- the, .people of Australia on this’ important matter.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Werriwa

.- The contention of the honorable member for-‘ West Sydney (Mr. Reasley) , is that an’ ‘inquiry into the banking and monetary ‘“system of Australia might more appropriately’ be made by a committee of honorable members than by a royal commission, possibly under the: chairmanship of a gentleman from overseas, and ‘‘that more beneficial results would accrue from a body so constituted. It is not necessary in this debate to have a long discussion of the merits of any particular system, nor to canvass the financial arrangements of either this or . any other country. All that the Labour party contends is that it is the opinion of a large school of thought, not only:,in Australia, but also throughout the world, that there is something radically and fundamentally wrong with the existing system. We merely ask for the appointment of a body that wi.J.1 make the most effective investigation of the matter. A royal commission would be circumscribed by the terms of reference, which could be so drawn as to make its inquiry altogether ineffective. The Government would have the selection of the chairman and the personnel of the commission. If the gentleman chosen to be chairman were taken from the service of the Bank of England, as the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) has suggested, the most important member would be clothed with wide powers to make recommendations in the interests of the existing system. It is also probable that the other members would have similar predilections. A parallel case would be the appointment of a committee of brewers to inquire into the question whether or not a temperance policy would be good for the country. Selected witnesses would be called, who would give only such answers as were desired by the commission. But an investigation by a committee of honorable members would result in the fullest publicity being given to our side as well as to the bankers’ side of the case. The party with which I am associated is prepared to nominate members for appointment to such a body. Those members would focus the spotlight of publicity on the whole matter, and expose what is no more than a swindle and a confidence trick on the public. If the existing system is the “ Rock of Ages “ we are led to believe that it is, those who operate it have nothing to fear from a public inquiry into it by a committee of honorable members. If, on the other hand, we who are opposed to it are the arrant fools and humbugs we are said to be, the exposure of the fallacy of our arguments ought not to be difficult; but we are prepared to call their bluff, and, by bringing them into a public inquiry, expose once and for all the confidence trick which they practise, and then leave the decision of the matter to the people when the issues are placed before them, relying upon their good sense and sound judgment to do what is right. There was no need to circumscribe the debate, because we have neither the time not the inclination to delve into the whole of the ramifications of the financial system. This matter was a subject for debate long before I entered this Parliament, and unless steps are taken to alter the system, it will still be- debated when we arc all dead. We want to put an end to it. An inquiry should be held that will decide the matter in our day and generation. We contend that, if such an inquiry is held, we can state the position with sufficient clarity to obtain the fulfilment of our desires when wc ask the people to adjudicate upon the matter.

I can understand the point of view of the honorable member for Lilley (Sir Donald Cameron) on defence. Surrounding everything is the old doctrine of the balance of power. It is a doctrine as old as mankind. Enunciating this doctrine at The Hague Convention, Mr. Churchill said that Great Britain had to be so strong that no other nation would dare to attack it. To-day other nations are seeking, by alliances and other means, to establish themselves in a similar position. Although it did not dare to say such a thing while the war was in progress, the Round Table, at the conclusion of the last war, said that this doctrine of the balance of power and the brutal military time-table of Europe finally plunged the world into that war. And any one acquainted with world conditions must realize that this doctrine of the balance of power is the most prolific cause of wars, because any new nation which seeks to increase its power and threatens to disturb the greater power of other nations is immediately crushed.

Mr Nairn:

– I have often heard the honorable member attribute the’ cause of war to the power of money.

Mr LAZZARINI:

– The power of money is also involved in this doctrine. Monied interests and the great, armament firms live and batten on war, because it enables them to tighten their grip of economic control, not only in those countries at war, but also in those countries which do not want to go to war. If war is to be prevented effectively, there must be a different attitude of mind on the part of the public. We hear a great deal about reduction of armaments. The trouble is that the spirit of war can be kept alive wherever there is even one battleship or a few guns, small or large. The honorable member for Lilley told us that the nations represented at the Disarmament Conference which he attended were unanimously in favour of reducing armaments, and retaining only sufficient for the purposes of national safety. But who is to decide the limits of armaments for the purposes of national safety? Each country must decide that matter for itself. At every disarmament conference at Geneva or The Hague about which I have read, every nation has claimed that it is peace loving and does not want war. We hear that said in this chamber.

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– Any one who has seen warfare does not want to see it again.

Mr LAZZARINI:

– I do not doubt that the honorable member is opposed to war. However, if no nation wants war, and each nation decides not to make war, what need is there for armaments? It is claimed that Germany’s dishonesty caused the last war, France perhaps was the cause of a prior war, and for other wars France has blamed Britain. The manufacture of a single gun or battleship may influence a people’s outlook in favour of war. It is a psychological problem and it will not be solved until all the peoples of the world force the total abandonment of armaments. While I believe in the views I have just expressed, it is the policy of the parties represented by honorable members on this side of the House that while there is any possibility of war, and danger threatens, this country, we must take certain measures of a defensive nature. In this matter Australia should, first of all, make a frank and clear declaration to the world that it will have nothing to do with war outside its shores, no matter who starts it, and no matter where it takes place. We in this party believe in the establishment of arms for defensive purposes only, and we would create no engine of war that could be sent thousands of miles from this country to attack another country, However, in the event of any possibility of being attacked ourselves, we should take effective measures to defend our coastline and to establish a force sufficiently mobile to be utilized to tlie greatest effect in repulsing such an attack. It is generally admitted to-day that Germany was defeated in the last war, not because its army collapsed, but because the morale of its people gave way. Therefore, our first line of defence should be to establish a strong morale among our people. If we are sincere about this we will first of all, as the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) suggests, bend our energies to creating a happy community, so that our manhood and womanhood will take pride in retaining possession of this country, and so that it will be a land worth living in and if necessary, worth dying for in defence of its shores. If we build up our country in that way, it will be possible for us, after placing our own unemployed again in work, to invite our kith and kin from other parts of the dominions, and people from other countries, to settle here and enjoy a happy life with us.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member has exhausted his time.

Mr FISKEN:
Ballarat

.- I desire to bring under the notice of the Minister’ for Commerce (Dr. Earle Page) the unsatisfactory conditions at the stock quarantine station at Coode Island, Melbourne. Recently one of my constituents, who imported some stud sheep from Great Britain, found that the conditions under which these sheep had to remain in quarantine at that station were most unsatisfactory. Several shipments of stud sheep arrived in Victoria at that particular time, and I am prepared to admit that these shipments were greater than usual. However, I claim that provision should be made at such stations to receive at any time reasonably large shipments of stud stock. At Coode Island there is only one small paddock for accommodating sheep, and that is in a disgraceful state of disrepair. Three consignments of sheep arrived there on the occasion I refer to. some being males and some females. Obviously, these had to be kept apart. The ewes were put into the paddock, and it was necessary to find other accommodation for the rams. For his rams he had the choice of a pig pen or a horsebox. As the weather was very hot he was afraid to house the sheep in the horsebox. Eventually, when he decided to put them in the pig pen, he found that the troughs still contained sour food which had been used to feed pigs penned there some months before. The pen was in a filthy condition, with the result that a valuable ram developed some obscure disease, and for some weeks was on the point of succumbing. Fortunately, however, it recovered. I hope the Minister in charge of this department will be able to do something to remedy the conditions to which I have referred. It is generally recognized, and more so at the present time, that if we are to sell our produce overseas we must produce the best. That can only be done, so far as stock is concerned., by the importation of the best stud stock from overseas. Every encouragement should be given to breeders in this country to import the best breeds, but if such conditions as I have referred to have to be contended with, Australian breeders will be very much discouraged. I hope that the Minister will look into this matter.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

.- The Minister for Defence (Mr. Parkhill) pointed out yesterday that his party had received a mandate from the people to do certain things, and that therefore the Government was entitled to use its numbers to put its legislation1 through this Parliament irrespective of the opinions of the Opposition. Such a statement is not altogether correct. Certainly the Minister’s party - the United Australia party - went to the country with a definite policy, but also before the electors at that time were the Country party and the parties now in opposition, which also placed definite policies before the people. The party of which the Minister for Defence is a member was not returned to this House with a majority by which it could carry on the government of this country, and the policy put before the electors by the United Australia party is not the policy that has been put into effect in this House. We have been asked to give effect to the policy of the Country party, which was returned with a minority, compared with the strength of the other parties in this House. The reason given ‘ by the Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page) for closing up the House for the next five or six months is that there is a likelihood’ that, if this House remains in session, its discussions will interfere with certain negotiations now taking place overseas. I do not think that the Acting Prime Minister expecte’d the House to accept that view. The real reason why the Government is seeking an extended recess is that trouble has occurred between the Country party and the United Australia party in Victoria. Even assuming- that the Prime Minister’s reasoning was sound a recess of six months would not be justified, for the negotiations proceeding overseas will be completed long before the expiry of that time, and if any agreements are reached it will be necessary for Parliament to give legislative effect to them.

The Minister for Defence also referred last night to the legislative record of this . Government; but we have to look to the future. According to the honorable member for Barton (Mr. Lane) every man and woman in New South Wales who wants work is now at work on the basic wage; yet the statistical returns show that more than 29 per cent, of the persons registered for employment in that State are without work, and those figures take no account of youths who have left school and reached the age of eighteen years, but cannot be registered. The honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. Fisken) referred, in the course of his speech, to the disgraceful rolling stock provided for the carriage of stud sheep in Victoria; but we should remember that in order that the livestock could be provided with the accommodation five or six young people who were seeking shelter or a ride in the vans had to be turned out of them. This Government should be concerning itself not only with the international problems that face the nation, but also with the domestic dangers that confront us, for it cannot be expected that our unemployed people will continue, for an unlimited period, to suffer the pains of hunger without making a vigorous protest. During the last week or two 20,000 relief workers struck work in Victoria for an increase in their rate of sustenance.

Mr E J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– They were led by communists.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Years ago it was always said that the unemployed were led by members of an organization known as the Industrial Workers of the World; to-day the communists are accused; but the fact is that 90 per cent, of the people out of work in Australia are loyal to the Constitution of this country, and many of them fought to maintain it during the great war. Prior to their enlistment, those men were promised that upon their return to Australia from overseas full provision would be made for their welfare, yet to-day thousands ait them are without work. If they even creep into a train in order to travel to some other place hoping to find work there, and are discovered, they are treated as criminals, thrown into prison and subjected to the indignity of having their fingerprints taken.

We have been told that this Government has done a great deal for the relief of the farmers of Australia. All it has done has been to hand over the taxpayers’ money to the State governments without any controlling interest whatever in the expenditure of it. Parliament could do good work during the next few months if it remained in session. Honorable members are entitled to full information with regard to the progress of the negotiations now proceeding overseas. Major Elliott the Minister for Agriculture in the British Government, has left us with no false conception of the policy of Great Britain, for he told us clearly that his government intends to preserve the home market for the British producers. We can take no objection to that course; but we are entitled to make a bitter complaint against our own government for bartering away our Australian home market to overseas interests by means of various trade treaties. If the trade treaties which result from the work of the Australian delegation now in Loudon are no more successful than those which followed the Ottawa conference, the outlook for our producers is hopeless.

Some honorable members seem to be quite ignorant of the fact that in some of the pastoral areas of Queensland the most severe drought for the last 50. years is being experienced. If rain does not fall in those particular districts in the next week or two the pastoral industry there is doomed. In some places in Western Queensland settlers are walking off their selections who, a few years ago, were, to all intents and purposes, wealthy people. They could have sold their properties, invested the proceeds in government ‘bonds, and lived comfortably on- the proceeds. They have had experience of droughts in the past, however, and are not prepared to suffer the hardships that they entail. Relief has been provided for the wheat-growers and other farmers, but nothing has been done for necessitous people in the pastoral industry.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954

– The debt adjustment measure passed the other day would cover them.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– If that measure is intended to cover the wheat-growers, the tobacco-growers and all other farmers, as well as the pastoralists, its beneficial effect will be imperceptible. Nothing that this Parliament has done so far will render effective assistance to the necessitous pastoralists in Western Queensland, although their circumstances are much more difficult than those existing in South Australia. I am told that a wheat-farmer in South Australia who has 1,000 ewes can, with a reasonable price for wool, obtain a return from his general operations of from £ 10 to £12 a week ; but it must bc remembered that he has a handy market for his fat lambs and wethers, whereas the pastoralists of Western Queensland have not. Railway freights make it impossible for the pastoralists in remote areas to get their surplus stock to the markets. Our railway freights are still based on war prices and conditions, and it is high time that they were reviewed. The granting of relief under such measures as we have had before us during t he last week or two will have a palliating effect, but more must be clone if we are to get to the root of the trouble. Grants of the kind that have been made, help the financial institutions more than the farmers. Unless conditions improve in Western Queensland an amount of more than £12,000,000 will be required in the next year or two to rehabilitate the pastoral industry there. It has been said in some quarters that we have been engaged in a “scrap” in the interests of one section of the community ; but it must be borne in mind that the wool and meat industries of Australia affect the welfare of every person in this country. I should like to know what is to happen to our meat producers if no satisfactory agreement can be made as the result of the present negotiations in Great Britain. Has the Government any other plans in view? Will anything else be done to develop markets for our meat and other products.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

– I wish to direct the attention of the Minister for Repatriation (Mr. Hughes) to a matter relating to the proceedings of the Pensions Entitlement Tribunal. I shall refer to a particular case which involves an important principle of procedure. An exsoldier has informed me that he was in receipt of a full pension but was called upon to submit himself for reexamination. He was examined by a military doctor on whose recommendation his pension was reduced by almost half. Being dissatisfied he appealed, and the tribunal referred him back to’ the same doctor for further examination. Naturally, he complains that appeals conducted on those lines become rather a farce. That is not the first instance that I have had of complaints of that nature. There is no doubt that such procedure is not calculated vo do justice to the appellants: No matter how impartial a doctor may desire to be. he has a natural tendency in his second examination to devote himself to discovering circumstances which support the recommendations of hi3 previous report. I feel that the complaint is genuine, and shall place the details of the particular case before the Minister. I also recommend the Minister to go into the matter of the procedure of these tribunals, and, if he finds that the complaints are justified, to make a general recommendation to them, calculated to put a stop to this practice, and be moro conducive to giving justice to all who come before them on appeals regarding pensions.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– I desire to enter my protest against the hasty and unwarranted method adopted by the Government in rushing the second reading of this bill through, thereby depriving honorable members of the opportunity to discuss it. I also protest against Parliament going into recess for such a lengthy period. With other honorable members on this side, I believe that, since this Government came into power, Parliament has had too many recesses. Since the election in September last, Parliament has sat for approximately only 40 days. I feel sure that, if the electors had suspected what was going to happen, the Government would never have had the opportunity to occupy the treasury bench. The Minister for Defence (Mr. Parkhill) said yesterday that Parliament had sat longer under this Government than it did under the Scullin Government. The records will prove that that is not so. The Minister said further that the Government had no intention of calling Parliament together whilst negotiations were taking place between the Australian delegation and the British authorities in London. He gave the very definite reason that the Government felt sure that the negotiations would be hampered by members on this side making statements which would embarrass the contracting parties. One has only to read pages of Hansard to realize that, if ever any obstruction or embarrassment was caused to a government, it was done by certain members, now sitting on the ministerial side, when the present Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin) was negotiating on the other side of the world on behalf of the Australian people. The present position is wrong, and should not be allowed to continue. Parliament should meet shortly after the Easter holidays to carry on the work of the country. It should at least be given the opportunity to discuss the negotiations that are likely to take place overseas, and be told the exact position. The honorable member for Kennedy (Mr. Riordan) a few moments ago mentioned that this Parliament did not have a chance to discuss the Ottawa agreement during the time it was under negotiation. That is perfectly true, and the same will apply on this occasion. I am satisfied that Parliament should be given the opportunity to discuss what is going on, because members on this side have certain views to put forward which will be of benefit to the people of Australia, and helpful to the delegation now overseas.

The Government on this occasion is adopting the same method as was followed by the late Bruce-Page Government. The country is being governed by the Cabinet and not by Parliament. During the regime of the Bruce-Page Government the country was run by commissions. When the election was being fought in September last, the principal issue on each side was banking. It was unfortunate that the people did not then give the Labour party an opportunity to put its banking policy into operation. I am pleased that the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) has tabled an amendment dealing with the Labour party’s policy of banking reform. Unfortunately, as the result of the poisonous and scurrilous propaganda put forward by the opponents of the Labour party, the electors were stampeded, and Labour was unable to gain sufficient seats to give it control of the government. Otherwise, we should not be pleading now with the Government to set up a committee of inquiry into the matter of banking reform.

In my opinion, the Government has failed miserably to relieve unemployment. Ministers have claimed that it has reduced the number of unemployed, but that is not in accordance with the facts. Even the figures disclosed in the Commonwealth Statistician’s returns cannot be taken as an accurate record of the unemployed, because they cover only the number of industrial unionists who are registered as unemployed by the various organizations, and, unfortunately, quite a number of industrial organizations do not send in their figures to the Commonwealth Statistician. There are, therefore, many thousands of members of industrial organizations unemployed today, and not shown in the statistician’s figures. In addition, many thousands of boys and girls leaving school each year have no chance to join industrial organizations and be registered; they are thus unaccounted for. It is therefore evident that the figures of unemployment throughout Australia to-day are no better than they were when the Government first took office. The only State which has made an honest attempt to reduce the number of unemployed is Queensland. The figures in that State are lower to-day than in any year since 1929, and much lower than in any other State. The latest figures of the Commonwealth Statistician, for the first quarter of 1935, show the percentages of unemployment to be as follows - Queensland 9.8, Victoria 15, Western Australia 15.4, Tasmania 16.7, South Australia 20.7, and New South Wales 23.6. The Queensland figure is the lowest percentage in that State since 1929. That is due to the administration of the Queensland Labour Government, which has tackled the problem scientifically.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954

– Yet the honorable member’s colleague just said that Queensland producers were paying wartime freights on primary produce.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– That may be so, but I make the definite claim that the Queensland Labour Government has done more to relieve unemployment and assist the farming community than has been done by the Commonwealth or any other parliament.

I listened attentively yesterday evening to the remarks of the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price), who endeavoured to convince the House and the country generally that the Government bad done such wonderful work that conditions in Australia were such as had never obtained before. I listened also to a recent remark of the Minister for Health (Mr. Hughes). It is amusing to contrast the two speeches. The honorable member for Boothby said that the country was on the safe road to recovery. Anyone who looks around will find that we are a long way from it. We shall continue to be on the wrong road so long as the Government persists . in the attitude it has adopted during the last five or six months. As against the honorable member’s statement that the country was on the safe road to recovery, the Minister for Health made, on the Navigation Bill, the following altogether different and contradictory statement: -

The truth is that the Commonwealth is struggling under very great difficulties, which. with every passing day, are becoming more formidable.

Then we have the utterance of the High Commissioner, Mr. Bruce, at a banquet in London a few months ago. He definitely warned the people of Australia that their country was facing one of the most critical periods of its history. These things, to my mind, go to show that Australia is a long way off the road to recovery and requires most careful handling, particularly from a finance point of view, to put it on the right road. Unfortunately, in my judgment, the Government is not tackling the finance problem in a proper way.

As regards matters concerning my own electorate I have, for many years past, endeavoured to induce the Government to give the people of Brisbane the justice to which they are entitled. As I have pointed out in this chamber - and other honorable members know the position just as well as I do - Brisbane lacks decent accommodation for its postal business and postal officials. I have tried during my term in Parliament to impress upon the Government the necessity of erecting, in Brisbane, a new post office in keeping with the dignity of the city and the dignity of the Commonwealth. One has only to go to Brisbane and look at the post office in order to be convinced that it is a scandal and a disgrace to the city and to the Commonwealth Government. Last year the Director of Posts and Telegraphs visited Brisbane and inspected the post office, and afterwards it was reported in the press that he was convinced that something should be done to relieve congestion in the department, and to provide a suitable building. It was stated that, in the near future, arrangements would be made for the rebuilding of that part of the premises facing Elizabeth-street-

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
Wannon

– During the period from 192S-29 to 1933-34, there has been a progressive improvement in the finances of the Postal Department. Of the four main branches, three of them showed profits, while in the fourth, the Telegraph Branch, there was a loss of £41,000. The total profit over all the departments was more than £2,000,000. I am pleased to see that in

Victoria there was a profit in all branches. Tasmania was the only State which showed a loss on the total turnover.

I urge the Government to give consideration to improving telephone facilities in country districts, so as to provide a better service for those on the land. Where possible, telephone bureaux should remain open for at least one hour after 6 o’clock. That has been done in many cases, but the practice should be extended. Men on the land are usually absent from their homes throughout most of the day, and sometimes do not return to them until after 6 o’clock. The evening is the only time they have in which to transact business and then, in too many instances, the telephone bureau is closed. It would also be an improvement if something could be done” to synchronize the lunch-hour closing interval in the various centres. In some places the offices close from noon to 1 p.m., and in others from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. I recognize that the offices are sometimes situated in business premises which have fixed closing hours that vary in different places, but perhaps something could be done to overcome .this difficulty.

Some time ago, a number of returned soldiers were taken on as temporary employees in the Postmaster-General’s Department, mostly as linemen. Since then many of them have been dismissed. Though we realize that they cannot be kept on if there is no work for them, we find that of late the department has been taking on younger employees from other branches, while the returned soldiers are still without employment. The department, in its report, refers to the recruitment of linemen in these terms :

The field of recruitment has also been extended to include officers of other Commonweal th departments, thus affording a wider field of selection which should prove advantageous to the department and extend the scope of opportunity to employees generally.

That is an admission that employees of other departments are being taken on, to the exclusion of returned soldiers. I urge the Government to take steps to see that employment is given to returned soldiers before positions are filled by the transfer of officers from other departments.

The Wireless Branch of the department shows a profit for the year of £87,000. I think that an endeavour should be made to eliminate interference with wireless receiving sets by electrical machinery. I know that this is a difficult problem, but all the department seems to have done up to the present is to send officers to interview the users of electrical appliances, and seek some arrangement with them.

Several years ago certain returned soldiers applied to the Pensions Department for a lump sum in lieu of their pensions, and very foolishly those in authority granted their request. I believe the pensions were commuted on a five-year basis. Now, many of those who received those lump sums are in need, and are anxious to have their pensions restored. I do not ask in their behalf for anything that would cost the Government more than it first contracted to pay. In most cases the pensions have been suspended for more than five years, so that the lump sum paid to the pensioners was actually less than would have been paid by way of pension during the intervening period. I urge the Government to go into this matter with a view to having the pensions restored if it can be done.

Mr. THOMPSON (New .England) 4.23]. - I desire to draw the attention of the Government and of honorable members generally to the position of the tobacco industry in Australia. I know that this subject has been brought prominently under the notice of the Government during the last few weeks, and. that the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) has received several deputations in regard to it; in fact, he is receiving one this afternoon. The Minister and the Government are giving a great deal of consideration to this important question; but, in my opinion, there is too much consideration and not enough action. We have had the spectacle over the last few years of this industry being continuously before Parliament; but while there has been a tremendous amount of talk, we have not succeeded in getting much done.. Twelve months ago the Government raised the import duty on tobacco by 6d. per lb. That was mainly for the purpose of getting revenue with which to assist the depressed wheat-growers; it was not particularly for the purpose of assisting the tobacco-growers.

Mr White:

– What about the £20,000 that was granted last year?

Mr THOMPSON:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– As I have said before, I do not consider that that money was of the slightest practical use to the industry.

Mr White:

– The growers thought so.

Mr THOMPSON:

– It might have been of some technical use. That money was distributed to the States for expenditure on expert instruction to the growers ; but of what use is it to teach the growers how to produce good tobacco if, when it is produced, they cannot find a market for it?

Mr White:

– They can sell all the light leaf they can grow.

Mr THOMPSON:

– I know that the Minister adheres to his belief that the Australian growers produce a greater proportion of bad leaf than good. I dispute that opinion, and I know that there is no immediate prospect of agreement on the point, though eventually we may be able to agree. However, if only a small proportion of the tobacco were inferior, it remains true that the econo- mie position of the industry is unsound. Whereas every other Australian industry is assured of a local market, this one has no market at all. I mean that no grower of tobacco in Australia is ever certain that he will be able to sell his tobacco, no matter what its quality, when it is ready to market. This is the one primary industry in Australia that is dominated by a powerful monopoly. At least 90 per cent, of the trade in Australia is in the hands of this monopoly, which is, I admit, in many respects mainly a revenue-collecting agency for the Federal Government. It is also making large profits, however, sheltered as it has been behind the tariff for the last 30 years. The competition of manufacturers in other countries has been excluded, mainly for the benefit of this combine. The producers of raw material in this industry are in a very’ different position from those in other industries.

My chief object in referring to the matter to-day was to draw the attention of honorable members to the enormous revenue weight that has been placed on the industry. and to ask the Government, in particular, whether it is a fair thing. Almost every week this Parliament passes measures providing bounties, or some other form of financial assistance, for various industries, secondary as well as primary. Yet those industries are not directly revenue-producing; actually, they ‘ are a financial burden on the community. The tobacco industry, on the contrary, is, with the possible exception of the income tax, the greatest single revenue-producer in the Commonwealth. That being so, we should regard it with greater respect, and display a greater willingness to treat it fairly. An industry which is a valuable revenue producer should not be dealt with in such a manner as to promote the economic welfare of the primary producers of a foreign country. That does not square with the protectionist policy supported by this Government, and to a large extent by myself and mother members of the Country party. It is an illogical policy to adopt towards an industry that is under the heel of a powerful combine which has grown up behind the shelter of the tariff wall.

Consider, for a moment, the huge sums of money that have been squeezed out of this industry. As a result of the tariff alterations made by this Government some three years ago, the excise revenue derived from the manufacturers of tobacco before it is placed on the market increased from £1.870,000 in 1931-32 to £3,122,000 in 1933-34. This is an enormous increase, and this year, according to figures supplied by the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White), it is estimated that the. excise revenue will further increase to £3,200,000. The .industry cannot thrive under this increasing load of taxation. I admit that the country cannot do without this revenue to-day, but there is a limit to the capacity of any industry to ben.” this huge impost. Of course, it is passed on to the tobacco consumers, who ave one of the most heavily-taxed sections of the community, and are apparently willing to carry that burden. The growers of tobacco in Australia are having it taken out of their hides, because the big combine is not prepared to pay them a profitable price for their leaf. Seeing that it can obtain leaf cheaply from other countries, despite the import duty and freight charges, and still sell the product at a price comparable with that at which it sells tobacco made from Australian leaf, it does not desire to purchase the product of the local growers, and will not buy it except under compulsion. The Australian industry cannot compete with imported leaf whilst this tremendous load of excise taxation is placed upon it. The Tariff Board reported a few years ago that £6,500,000 a year was a fair sum to take from the industry by means of import and excise duties, but to-day this Government is collecting from it taxes to the amount of nearly £8,000,000, and each year the amount is increasing. We can safely say that to-day the industry is contributing to the revenue-

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– And the industry is getting it from the public.

Mr THOMPSON:

– The Government is taking from the industry £1,000,000 a year move than the Tariff Board declared to bc a fair thing. In view of the revenueproducing value of the industry, the Australian growers should be given more encouragement “than they have received at the Government’s hands.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– How much of the revenue comes from overseas?

Mr THOMPSON:

– Approximately half of it is derived from the excise duty ; it is nearly fifty-fifty. If no tobacco were imported, the excise duty would have to be so adjusted as to enable the amount of revenue that the Government desires from the industry to be raised. The industry can be made to contribute as much revenue as the Government wishes, either through the customs duty or the excise duty; so we should not lose revenue in the long run by encouraging the local industry. The revenue load upon it is being increased every year without giving the growers any compensating advantage. Although there are some 5,000 registered growers, most of them are merely holding their registration certificates in the hope that the prospects of the industry will improve.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time lias expired.

Mr MULCAHY:
Lang

.- During the present session most of our time has been spent in considering legislation for the granting of assistance to rural industries, and the sum of £12,000,000 has been generously allocated for that purpose. Scarcely a session of this Parliament passes without assistance being granted to the wheat-farmers, but practically nothing has been done to help the purchasers of war service homes to retain their shelter during the years of depression.

I draw attention to the activities of the Repatriation Department in regard to ex-soldier3, who, because they are suffering from tubercular complaints, seek war pensions. Fully 65 per cent, of the applicants for these pensions are afflicted with this terrible disease, and in practically every instance the medical authorities declare that their disability is not due to war service. I am aware that the present Minister for Repatriation (Mr. Hughes) does not altogether endorse the medical opinion, nor do most of those who come in contact with these men. When the ex-soldiers enlisted., they were medically examined for service overseas, and no trace of this complaint was discovered, yet the majority of them are now found to be tubercular. Immediately upon their return from the front, most of them went back to their former occupations, some suffering only slightly from the effects of their wai- service; but, as the years have passed on, they have become more and more incapacitated. I particularly remember the case of one man who, immediately upon his return, went back to his former employment. He had been discharged as suffering slightly from the effects of gas. His disability became gradually worse, and to-day he is a complete invalid. Although his application for a pension is supported by medical certificates from outside the department, his request has been definitely refused on the ground that his present disability is not duo to war service. Other honorable members, of course, know of numerous cases of this kind, for they are to be found throughout Australia. Millions have been doled out to the wheatfanners, but promises made to the men. who went overseas to fight for this country have been ignored. To cite a typical case, I call attention to the- following paragraph, which appeared in a Victorian newspaper, the Castlemaine Mail: -

page 1084

QUESTION

A DIGGER PASSES- TRAGICALLY

Last Monday, a complete stranger to this town, Digger Charles O’Donnell, who served in the Australian Imperial Forces in the 49th (Queensland) Battalion, died in the Castlemaine Hospital.

The digger had tramped from his native State to Victoria in search of employment, and reached Castlemaine only a fortnight ago, where he continued his search for the everelusive job. Of an exceedingly independent nature, he refused help, unless able, in some way, to repay it. Taken suddenly ill on Sunday, lie was picked up on the country roadside by Will Beckingsale, who at once conveyed him by car to the hospital, where he died the following day.

That case is typical of many. Notwithstanding the promises made to him and others when they enlisted this man fell by the wayside and died a pauper. In order that justice may be done, a committee of inquiry should be appointed to investigate the administration of the department generally, and particularly those cases in which widows of ex-soldiers are threatened with eviction from their homes. It is significant that applicants for pensions whose applications are supported by their commanding officer at the war or other persons with influence, are generally successful, irrespective of the merits of their claims. Most of the men who returned from the war are of an independent spirit; they do not look for charity, but they expect this Parliament to honour the promise made to them when they enlisted.

Almost daily, occupants of war service homes in my electorate are receiving notice to vacate their homes, notwithstanding that they are behind with their payments only because of their inability to find employment. These men undertook the purchase of war service homes in an endeavour to bring up their families amid decent surroundings, and they should be encouraged. If this, Parliament can vote several millions of pounds each year to assist the wheat-farmers, surely it can afford to act justly towards the men who fought for our national ideals. As recently as last week, a widow of a returned soldier, with four little children, the youngest two years old, received an eviction summons from the “War Service Homes Department, calling on her to vacate her home in the Parramatta district. I saw the Deputy Commissioner iu Sydney on her behalf, and yesterday I received a reply from him in which he advised the woman to get into another home, the rent of which she could afford to pay. In forwarding that reply to the unfortunate woman, I advised her to remain in her home, and to let the department evict her, if it would. We were told a few days ago that the Minister in Charge of War Service Homes (Mr. Thorby) was making inquiries in Europe with regard to the treatment of exsoldiers there. I am not concerned with the information that the Minister may bring back from the impoverished countries of Europe, for I know only too well, from what I have seen in the Old Country, of the treatment meted out to the heroes of past wars. Most of the ordinary British soldiers who returned from the Crimean War finished their days in the workhouses of England.

Mr MULCAHY:

– Surely the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. E. E. Harrison) is aware that what I have said is correct.

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– I do not know anything of the kind.

Mr MULCAHY:

– -I do not want to see Australian ex-soldiers treated in that way.

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– I went to the war, but the honorable member did not.

Mr MULCAHY:

– The men who enlisted were promised that on their return they would be well treated.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) has moved an amendment providing for the appointment of a parliamentary select committee, representative of all parties in Parliament, and assisted by experts, to inquire into the banking and monetary system. The Government’s attitude towards this subject was set out clearly by the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) before he left for England, and, since his departure, by the Acting Prime Minister (Dr.

Earle Page). The Government is of the opinion that the appointment of a political body to investigate the banking and monetary system would not be fruitful of the best results in the interests of the whole Australian community. This technical and intricate subject does not lend itself to political treatment, and consequently, - the Government proposes to set up an unbiassed body, representative of the best brains in the community, to undertake the investigation. The Government is fully seized of its responsibility in regard to the personnel of the committee, and the settling of the terms of reference. It is concerned to find out whether or not there is a monetary shortcut to prosperity; whether there are any abuses in the existing monetary and banking system, and, if so, the best way to cure them; what reforms, if any, are necessary, and what they might be expected to achieve. The committee when appointed, will he armed with sufficient powers to enable it to undertake its difficult task. That this subject could not receive other than political treatment at the hands of a political committee is proved clearly by the failure of the parliamentary investigation into a similar subject in New Zealand. Not even the most ardent supporter of the body which undertook the investigation would say that the inquiry was productive of good results or, indeed, of any constructive proposals. The Government can conceive of no more dangerous line of inquiry than that of setting up a politically-minded body to thresh out an important technical subject. Great damage would be done to the Australian community were a committee to. bring forward ill-considered or partisan proposals, and consequently the Government will do its best to avoid that result. Honorable members can rest assured that the terms of reference will be carefully, and yet widely, drawn, to enable all relevant phases of the subject to be considered, and that the personnel of the committee will be the most experienced and unbiassed it is pos>sible to obtain. As to the suggestion that the Prime Minister intends to select the members of the committee overseas, I can only say that the right honorable gentleman himself has denied any such inten tion. The Government has not yet come to any determination regarding the personnel, but is prepared to accept its responsibility in regard to the matter, and also in regard to the settling of the terms of reference.

Question - That the amount proposed to be reduced be so reduced (Mr. Beasley’s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

20 33

13

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative. Amendment negatived.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

– I move -

That the amount be reduced by 10s.

I wish the acceptance of the amendment to be regarded by the Government as an instruction to reduce by ls. 6d. per lb. the excise duty on tobacco made from Australian leaf.

I have been impelled to take this action by the eloquent speech of the honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson). I was disappointed at the failure of the honorable member to move the amendment that he invariably moved on similar occasions before the Country party was given practically half the seats in the Ministry, and he, in consequence, became one of the Government whips. The Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page) and other members of the Country party were consistent advocates of the interests of Australian tobacco-growers when they sat on the cross benches, and I cannot conceive of their opposing my proposal in view of the speeches that they then made in support of similar proposals. Speaking on the 24th May, 1933 (Hansard, page 1703) the present Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson) said that he and his colleagues believed that a price incentive could be given to the users of Australian tobacco without loss of revenue; a scheme had be-en worked out by the Secretary of the Victorian Tobacco Growers Association, which would permit of Australian tobacco being sold for l£d. less than the then price for a 2-oz. packet. The honorable gentleman moved an amendment the effect of which was that, instead of having a flat rate of excise of 4s. 6d. per lb. on both Australian and imported tobacco, for the first year there should be an increase of the excise by 4d. per lb. on imported leaf and a reduction of 8d. per lb. on Australian leaf, making a. differentiation of ls. per lb., the rates being 3s. lOd. per lb. on Australian and 4s. lOd. per lb. on imported leaf. Quite a number of animated and heated speeches were made in support of that amendment by members of the Country party. The Assistant Minister (Mr. Thorby), who is at present abroad with Sir Henry Gullett and the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons), said in reply to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White)-

The Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) has endeavoured to misrepresent the proposal which the Acting Leader of the Country party (Mr. Paterson) clearly submitted to the committee.

The honorable member for New England to-day holds a position of responsibility in the Government, and represents coun- try interests in this Parliament. His electorate contains a large number of tobacco-growers. No honorable member comes more closely into touch with Ministers than does the whip of the Government party. He has frequently to confer with Ministers as to the business of the’ House, and the procedure to be adopted to facilitate the passage of legislation. I am astonished, therefore, at the inability of the honorable member for New England to induce Country party Ministers to translate into legislation the ideals that they cherished in regard to the tobacco industry when they sat on the cross benches.

Let us study the imports of unmanufactured tobacco. For the first seven months of 1933-34 they totalled 4,195,000 lb., valued at £259,000. The imports for a similar period in 1934-35 were 9,568,000 lb., valued at £648,000. If the Commonwealth were to give this industry the assistance to which it is entitled, it could supply practically the whole of Australia’s requirements of tobacco leaf. In December, 1930, the Scullin Government, after hearing a deputation of tobaccogrowers, decided to increase the import duty from 3s. 6d. to 5s. 2d. per lb. The result of that action was very keen competition for the 1931 Australian crop, and all the available leaf was sold at an average price of 3s. per lb. The clearances of imported leaf dropped in one year by 5,000,000 lb., from 20,000,000 lb. to 15,000,000 lb., and, although the quantity of Australian leaf used in manufacture was trebled, the increase being from 1,000,000 lb. to 3,000,000 lb., the demand for Australian tobacco could not be met, so popular did it become, and so great was the incentive given to the Australian smoker by reason of the difference in price between the Australian and the imported tobacco. The manufacturers admitted their inability to obtain sufficient supplies of Australian leaf. They sent three or four buyers to every tobacco-growing district in Australia, and that deserving section of primary producers at last came into its own. The tobacco-growers did wonderfully well until there was a change of government. One of the first acts of the new Govern ment, in which Sir Henry Gullett was

Minister for Trade and Customs, was to reduce the import duty on foreign leaf by 2s. 2d. per lb.

Mr Martens:

– In that he was assisted by the honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson).

Mr FORDE:

– He was assisted, I think, by all hoonrable members other than those of the Labour party. The reduction was from 5s. 2d. to 3s. per lb. Concurrently, the excise duty on all tobacco was increased by a like amount from 2s. 4d. to 4s. 6d. per lb. That meant, in effect, an additional duty of 93 per cent, on Australian tobacco. This resulted in the price of that tobacco being raised, and being brought so close to the price of imported tobacco that it could not be sold, because of the falling off in the demand for it. The clearances of foreign leaf immediately increased, the competition in the tobacco-growing districts for Australian leaf practically ceased, and the growers found it difficult to dispose of their crops, with the result that the quantity of Australian leaf used in manufacture sharply declined. The Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) told us this afternoon that all light leaf - in other words, all highquality leaf - can be sold. It is wellknown that high-quality production to the extent of 90 per cent, cannot be obtained in either the tobacco industry or any other industry. Just as in 1930-31 there was a keen demand for all the tobacco grown in Australia, so there would be a keen demand again to-day if the present Government were to treat the industry as sympathetically as it was treated by the Scullin Government. No one knows better than the honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson) the disabilities, trials and tribulations of the growers, not only in his own district, but, also in every part of Australia. The honorable member will bear me out when I say that hundreds of growers were forced out of business, and had to go on the dole. Since then bluemould, floods and frosts have accentuated the growers’ troubles. For the first seven months of this financial year, 9,500,000 lb. of tobacco was imported, or more than double the. quantity for the corresponding period of the previous year. It has been said that there is no market for all the dark leaf produced in Aus-‘ tralia, yet, prior to July of last year, black tobacco was being imported into the Northern Territory from overseas, duty free.

Mr White:

– That was done while the honorable member himself was in office.

Mr FORDE:

– During my period of office the demand for Australian-grown leaf was so keen that the price went up to 3s. per lb. j buyers were very active in endeavouring to secure the Australian leaf, and growers were able to sell all the tobacco they grew. But a different state of affairs exists to-day, due to the meddlesome interference of this incompetent Government. During the first year of office of the Lyons Government, by arrangement with the tobacco combine, the price was reduced by 9d. per lb., resulting in a profit to the combine of £300,000. This matter was raised, in the House, I think, by the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway), and since then the Minister has given an assurance that all purchases of tobacco for the Northern Territory by the Administration have been restricted to tobacco manufactured from Australian-grown leaf, and that this arrangement will continue in the future. That is as it should be, but our thanks arc due to the honorable member for Melbourne Ports for bringing this matter under the notice of the Minister. A deputation from the Australian Tobacco Growers Association waited on the Minister in December last, and brought under his notice the fact that large quantities of dark tobacco were being imported into New Guinea and Papua from the United States of America. For the year ended the 30th June, 1934, the imports of American tobacco were 99,000 lb. into Papua and 175,000 lb. into New Guinea. This was a black twist tobacco, intended mainly for native consumption. As it has been suggested that Australian growers could supply this dark leaf, I hope that the Miniser will give a definite assurance that action will be taken to preserve this market for the Australian growers.

To stabilize the Australian industry, a lowering of the excise on Australian tobacco and cigarettes has been suggested by growers, but the Minister, in replying to this suggestion at a number of deputations at which I was present, placed imaginary difficulties in the way. Where there is a will there is a way. If the Minister would only extend to ‘this request the sympathetic consideration of which he is capable, he will eventually accede to it.

Mr Beasley:

– What influences are retarding him?

Mr White:

– That question sounds as if it emanates from a Lang mind.

Mr FORDE:

– Generally speaking - and I do not want to attribute this to the Minister - the British-Australasian Tobacco Company would prefer to import tobacco from abroad. It has its own connexions overseas, its own plantations, and its whole ramifications in the United States of America and England.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member has exhausted his time.

Mr STREET:
Corangamite

.- Yesterday afternoon when replying to a question asked by the honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. E. F. Harrison) relative to the present strength of the Australian Military Forces, the Minister for Defence (Mr. Parkhill) said that the question was under consideration and was being referred to the Council of Defence. Before the Christmas recess I asked the Minister how often the Council of Defence had met since 1919 and cil for Defence had met since 19.19 and ster replied that the Council had met nineteen times since 1919, and that its last meeting was held in November 1929. That date coincided with the suspension of universal military training. I further asked the Minister who defined the policy under which the Defence vote is allocated to the various services. The Minister replied that the allocation was determined by the Minister after hearing the views and considering the recommendations of the Service Boards and the Defence Committee. The Defence Committee consists of five members, the three chiefs of staff of the various services and two members of the secretariat of the Department of Defence. The Council of Defence is a different body and consists of the Prime Minister, as president, the Treasurer, the Minister for Defence, three naval representatives, three military representatives, a repre sentative of the Air Force,. the ControllerGeneral of Munitions Supply and the secretaries of the Departments of thu Treasury and Defence. The duties of this Council arc defined in Commonwealth Statutory Rules, 1901-1927, volume 1, as follows -

The powers and functions of the Council of Defence shall be -

To insure that the whole policy of the defence of Australia by the naval, military and air forces is consistent generally with Imperial plans, and especially with such of those plans as directly concern Australia, and to issue such instructions in connexion therewith as are necessary ;

To act as the medium of communi cation with the Committee of Imperial Defence or any other body of a similar nature formed by the government of the United Kingdom ;

To effect such supervision of the ap proved defence policy in the naval, military, air and munition branches as will insure its efficient and economical application;

To co-ordinate the activities of the naval, military, air and munition branches with each other as well as with those of other Commonwealth departments and the commercial and manufacturing activities of Australia insofar as is necessary to insure, in the case of need, the mobilization of all resources for the defence of Australia ; and

To advise upon and supervise the total expenditure upon defence and the distribution of that expenditure.

I emphasize the duties outlined in paragraph 5. It seems to be most extraordinary that a body invested with such important powers with respect to defence policy, should not have had occasion to meet on even one occasion during the last five years. It is difficult to reconcile the answer of the Minister to my question relating to definition of policy with the duties I have just mentioned in paragraph 5. If this council is necessary, and I believe it is, then it should meet to do the job for which it is appointed. The constitution of the council probably needs to be altered because I think it should be fundamental of any Council of Defence that its members consist only of those in close touch with modern defence thought. If the Minister is to call the council together again as may be inferred from his reply, I hope that it will be in reconstructed form.

I listened with a great deal of interest to the speech made by the honorable member for Bendigo with reference to the defence position in Australia. I agree with the honorable member that the army, generally looked upon as the Cinderella of the services, must play a very important part in the defence of this country. There are five fundamental points in connexion with our defence policy that are in need of attention. These are : first, the coastal defences of this country which are being improved; secondly, the necessity for modernizing the army by mechanization and motorization ; thirdly, the necessity for equipping the troops with modern automatic weapons - we still have light-horse regiments armed with Hotchkiss guns that went out of date in 1916; fourthly, the question of air defences mentioned by the honorable member for Bendigo; and finally, the maintenance of adequate reserves. Under our present system of training the turnover is unfortunately very rapid and we find that we are left without adequate trained reserves. The honorable member for Bendigo says that if we take the specialists away from a particular unit, there is nothing left. Whether our military forces are necessary for internal defence or as an expeditionary force, the points I have mentioned are equally important. I hope that the Minister will pay special attention to the reconstitution and functions of the Council of Defence.

Mr WHITE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Balaclava · UAP

– I rise to speak at this stage because there is a tobacco deputation awaiting me in th, precincts of the House, and because I should like to reply to the “ very timely “ speech of the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) before leaving the House to meet the deputation. The tobacco industry, like many others, has been under the constant supervision of governments. The wine industry is one with which the Commonwealth Government has grappled successfully, and it is now on its feet. I think the same can be said of the cotton industry. But the tobacco industry offers greater difficulties. I contend that what the Government has done so far has been on right lines. The difficulties of the tobacco industry, however, have been largely of its own creation, inasmuch as a number of persons were induced to invest their money in it as a result of the heavy import duty imposed by the Labour Government. Many of these persons were without adequate knowledge of tobacco-growing, and they paid high prices for the land they cultivated, and in consequence there was not the proportion of good, readily saleable leaf that there should have been. It is interesting at this stage to consider how the volume of imported tobacco is falling. In 1927-28, the proportion of Australian tobacco used was S.3 per cent.; by 1933-34 the proportion of Australian leaf rose to 25 per cent. In other words, the Australian growers are now supplying 25 per cent, of the market in Australia for leaf employed in the manufacture of tobacco. There is also a definite improvement in quality, and it is in this direction that the success of the industry lies.

Mr Thompson:

– What proportion of Australian leaf is used without blending?

Mr WHITE:

– Certain firms are using Australian tobacco entirely. A large proportion of the imported leaf is leaf of light colour. The Australian smoker wants a light leaf, but unfortunately our growers are not producing sufficient of this quality to meet the demand. I am sorry that the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) suggests that some influence is preventing the Government from doing the right thing in this matter. All the leaf of the right kind thai the growers can produce can be sold at a good price. The duty on this leaf is 3s. 6d. per lb., which, on some types, represents a protection of 500 per cent. That is a fact. Difficulty, therefore, occurs only with regard to the darker grades. The honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson) is aware of this. Nevertheless, the Government desires to do the right thing by the growers and to assist them. Last year it voted the sum of £20,000 a year for five years to assist them by supplying them with technical information so as to enable them to change over to the right type of leaf. It is most encouraging to be able to say to-day that 40 per cent, of the leaf now grown in Australia is of the right variety.

Mr Beasley:

– The consumption of light leaf has been encouraged by tariff protection and a greater market for the dark leaf could be provided by a similar policy.

Mr WHITE:

– Considerable misunderstanding has arisen on that point. At the time the Government induced them to buy the whole of the crop, the big companies bought sufficient quantities of dark leaf, which, allowing for maturation, will meet the demand for a period of three years. That is why to-day they are buying their requirements only from year to year according to their usings of dark leaf. Nevertheless they are taking the whole of the light leaf that is grown.

Mr Beasley:

– Does that mean that they have swung away from the dark grades ?

Mr WHITE:

– It is a matter of public taste for which the manufacturers have to cater; in Australia there is a distinct preference for light leaf. The Government desires to assist the growers in any way it can. Tobacco is a great taxing medium. We receive over £7,000,000 annually from import and excise duties on tobacco; about onetenth of this revenue, namely, £700,000, is derived from Australian-grown tobacco. Negotiations have been proceeding for some time with Papua and New Guinea to see if dark tobacco can be sold in those territories. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has spoken much of twist, but there is not the skilled labour available in Australia for its manufacture.

Mr FORDE:

– The Australian skilled workman can learn to perform any task that is set for him.

Mr WHITE:

– That may be the profound belief of the honorable member, but it has not been confirmed by the response made by the industry to the duties which the Scullin Government imposed. Australian manufactured twist tobacco cannot compete with that made by the American negro, which is now imported in large quantities into the

Pacific islands and the territories. Consumption of Australian-grown tobacco is greater now that it has ever been; so it avails little for the honorable member for Capricornia to be harking back to the clays when he was Minister for Trade and Customs. Despite his contention, the fact remains that even with lower import duties more Australian-grown tobacco is being used now than ever before; furthermore, importations of tobacco are now at their lowest. Scientific research and investigation of this industry are proceeding apace. I emphasize the fact that no import or excise duty will cure blue mould, which is the greatest enemy of the Australian tobacco-grower to-day. That fact will be generally admitted.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Every one will admit it, except the tobacco-grower himself.

Mr WHITE:

– The tobacco-grower admits it. Last year’s crop and this year’s crop were unusually small owing to the ravages of this disease. The price which the Australian grower is obtaining for good leaf enables him to sell his tobacco at a profit. In Queensland prices have ranged up to 4s. per lb. The prices charged by manufacturers to the consumers are reasonable; employees in the industry are safeguarded, and the revenue is protected. Honorable members opposite are fond of attacking what they call the combine - a term which they apply to the principal tobacco company. I am not undertaking to defend it; it can speak for itself. But it has proved a good friend to the Australian growers. It provides practically their only market. In fact, it complains that after it has made large purchases many of the growers sell what is left over at a very low price to rival companies. I remind honorable members opposite that there is not just one tobacco, concern ; there are several of them. The further assistance of the industry is a matter of finance. If we can give more help, it will only be by sacrificing some revenue. However, if assistance can be given to the industry by excise, such a policy will be considered by the Government. As a matter of fact, this course has been considered year after year by the Government, and the money voted to the industry in the past and the increase of import duties were intended to help the industry. When this year’s budget is being framed, the Government will seriously consider ways and means to assist the industry further. If any further excise concession can be made to help the industry, it will be made.

Mr. THOMPSON (New England) [5.35 . - I am pleased that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) brought this matter forward. I was beginning to wonder whether the honorable gentleman had lost all interest in the tobacco industry, because this is the first time that he or any other honorable member of the Opposition has shown the slightest interest in it since the last election. When the honorable member alleges that the attitude of myself and other members of the Country party on this matter to-day differs from what it was formerly, I remind him that a proposal was being considered by the Scullin Government in which he was Minister for Trade and Customs to make very radical alterations in the tariff protection of the industry. He is very well aware of the fact.

Mr Forde:

– The honorable member is quite wrong; the incidence of the protection was to remain unaffected.

Mr THOMPSON:

– I assure the committee that what I say is correct.

Mr Forde:

– How would the honorable member know what was in the mind of the Scullin Government?

Mr THOMPSON:

– There was to be a considerable alteration in the excise rate, which was to be raised as the import duty was lowered. The object was to safeguard the revenue.

Mr Forde:

– The honorable member knows that that is not true.

Mr THOMPSON:

– It is true, because the honorable member showed me in his room a marked schedule indicating the proposed alterations. The honorable member must not call me a liar; I remind him that he showed me the schedule on which Mr. Theodore had marked the figures. I ask the honorable gentleman to tell the truth in this matter. I am fully aware that the position of the industry has altered since the last election, and that to-day we as members of the Country party are supporting the Government; that is why I am the Associate Whip. My party has, to a great extent, merged its policy with that of the United Australia party because of the greater chance of effect being given to our principles by a composite government. Part of our policy, as -announced by our leader, was a reduction in the rate of excise in favour of Australian tobacco. As president of the Australian Tobacco Growers Association, I have not lost sight of the duty I owe to the industry, and ever since the last election I have been discussing this matter with the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) and with members of my own party. We have put certain proposals before the Government. My object in speaking on this matte* to-day was to let the Government know that, in view of the fact that Parliament will adjourn for a lengthy period, the growers are expecting a definite declaration by the Government as to its future intentions with respect to the industry. The Government cannot lightly sacrifice a large amount of revenue, even though it realizes that the industry deserves further consideration. Therefore, we have to give the Government an opportunity to deal with this. matter as part of its budget policy. So far, the new Government has not brought down a budget.

Mr Beasley:

– But, in the meantime, this House should consider the position.

Mr THOMPSON:

– I realize that fact, but I consider that nothing which can be done at the moment is likely to prove of any very great benefit to the industry. However, if the Government announces that it proposes to make some budgetary provision for the industry the growers will be satisfied that the promises made to them are to be honoured. Therefore, we must give the Government a chance to consider its proposals. In view of the Minister’s statement to-day, I am quite satisfied to leave the matter rest there for the present. I interpret that statement to mean that this is definitely a revenue matter, that the Government proposes to consider the Country party’s policy when framing its next budget, and that it will give due attention to the proposals that I with other members of the Country party have put forward for a reduction of excise in favour of Australian tobacco. I take that as a definite promise, not only from the Minister hut also from the Government; and in the absence of any contradiction by the Minister of this assumption, I am satisfied with the statement * which the Minister has made. I shall tell the growers that the Government proposes to do something substantial for their benefit before the end of the year, and in good time to help the industry out of its troubles. For this reason I shall vote against the amendment.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
Darling Downs

– I desire to bring under the notice of the Minister representing the Postmaster-General (Mr. Hunter), a certain matter in connexion with broadcasting, which has been brought to my notice by two petitions, signed by between 30 and 40 business men in the city of Toowoomba. These people complain concerning a licence granted by the department to a firm of persons to operate a powerful broadcasting station about 18 miles from the existing station at Toowoomba. Their objections are based on the ground, first, that there is a station already operating in Toowoomba, and that, if another broadcasting station is allowed to operate so close to the present station, advertisers will find it necessary to utilize both stations in order to get the same coverage as they are getting to-da.y, because radio audiences in that district would be divided between the two; secondly, advertising costs are an important consideration, and they fail to agree that they should have increased costs imposed upon them; and, thirdly, they foresee a considerable increase in the power of the existing station, 4GR, and feel that, in order to support two stations, the limited business to be solicited would have to pay an increase in the rate of advertising. About ten years ago a young man, Mr. E. Gold, established on a small scale the present station. The venture has prospered ; each year the station has improved its service, which is now utilized by a population of from 28,000 to 30,000 people within a radius of 5 miles of Toowoomba. Now, after having built up his business, this young man finds that the department which granted him his licence, has granted a licence for the establishment of a more powerful station to operate in the zone which the original station serves. The station is now conducted by the Gold Radio Service Proprietary Limited. It is felt that an injustice is being done to this body through the latest action of the department. Mr. Gold has worked hard to develop his station, and he has given every satisfaction to local listeners, with the result that to-day he is able to provide an excellent continuous service for about 60 hours a week. Also he has used the station to help charitable objects. That this service is greatly appreciated is revealed by the fact that so many business men in Toowoomba have signed these petitions. These men suggest that a licence should not be granted for a new station to operate within 70 miles of Toowoomba. Mr. Gold states-

This is the first occasion on which the department has taken such action, and I do not know of any country town in Australia where a station already in operation has been treated in this way.

Moreover, the business people of Toowoomba who wish to use the service for advertising purposes will feel compelled to patronize both stations and in that way will incur additional expense. Those controlling the station at Toowoomba are willing to increase its power and thus enable it to operate over a wider area. The station to which a licence has recently been granted cannot provide the improved service needed . in the far western portion of Queensland.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– They are both B class stations.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:

– Yes, but one is of greater power than the other. By issuing an additional broadcasting licence the department will not receive additional revenue, because those possessing sets can receive from both stations.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The department receives practically no revenue through such stations.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:

– The granting of an additional broadcasting licence will not increase the number of receiving sets as listeners can at present tune in to both stations. I trust that the Postmaster-General will carefully consider the facts which were fully placed before him before the licence was issued.

I also bring under the notice of the Postmaster-General the necessity to establish a post office at Newtown, Toowoomba. The population within the municipality is 26,500, and that in the locality where a new post office is required is about 9,000, and is increasing yearly. The centre of the district is about one and a half miles from the main post office, and there are five or six schools within the area in addition to many business places and large saleyards. Oldage pensioners are compelled to go a long way to collect their pensions, and others wishing to transact postal business are seriously inconvenienced. I ask the Minister to give careful consideration to the urgent request of the local residents, and I trust that something will be done to assist those who at present are seriously inconvenienced.

An inspection should also be made of many existing postal buildings in the country districts with a view to effecting improvements. The Commonwealth Government grants money to the States, some of which might be used for necessary federal works and in connexion with buildings under the control of the Commonwealth. The post office buildings at Rosewood and Lowood are quite unsuitable for the purpose and new structures are essential. I realize that the Government has to be guided by the amount of money available, but in view of the business conducted at those two offices it is essential that new buildings should be constructed.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– I should like to inform the honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson), who said that the subject of tobacco production has not been raised by honorable members on this side of the chamber since the last general election, that I have asked several questions on the subject recently while honorable members supporting the Government have not even mentioned it. The honorable member also stated that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) showed him a draft of a tariff schedule containing a proposed increase of the excise on Australiangrown tobacco. I challenge the accuracy of that statement, because such information was not given to the members of the party to which the Deputy

Leader of the Opposition belongs. The Scullin Government increased duty on imported tobacco and reduced the excise on Australiangrown leaf, with the result that the number of tobacco-growers increased from under 1,000 to 6,320 in 1932. That is a point which the honorable member for New England should bring before the organization which he represents, and the deputation which he is to introduce to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White). I understand that this is to be the second deputation which he, as president of the Australian Tobacco Growers Association, is to introduce to the Minister. The honorable member shows his impartiality and his-keen interest in the welfare of the growers by declining to ask honorable members on this side of the chamber who represent districts in which tobacco is grown to be associated with the deputation.

Mr Thompson:

– I informed the honorable member that it was to consist of representatives of the Country party.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Why confine it to a particular party? When the present Deputy Leader of the Opposition proposed that the duties imposed by the Scullin Government should be restored and the excise reduced, the honorable member for New England voted against the proposal. When the United Australia party had a majority in this chamber and the members of the Country party were threatening the Government, the present Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page) said -

I make no apology for defending an industry of this sort. I never hesitate to support any worth-while industry, be it primary or secondary.

A few moments later the honorable member for Fawkner (Mr. Maxwell) interjected -

Will the proposals of the right honorable gentleman afford the same high degree of protection as was given by the duties introduced by the Scullin Government?

The right honorable gentleman replied -

They will have an identical effect, for they will preserve the margin that exists between the price of local and American leaf.

When the right honorable gentleman was in opposition, he asked for a reduction of the excise on locally-grown leaf and an increase of the duty on imported tobacco. He further said that, as the production in Australia improved, the Government could protect the revenue by increasing the excise, and the duty, and thus maintain the margin. Does he still stand by this policy, and will he give effect to his previous proposals? Does the honorable member . for New England suggest that the expenditure of £20,000 will save the industry when production has fallen from 20,000.000 lb. to a little under 1,550,000 lb.? Is that reduction due to blue mould? Will the honorable member support the statement that disease is solely responsible for the present position of the industry? T. say that it is not. On the contrary, it is due to the unsympathetic treatment of the growers by this Government. Will the honorable member tell men who have lost their capital that the trouble is due, not to the lack of protection, but to disease? The honorable member should not try to bluff his way through by saying that the Scullin Government was going to increase the excise in order to preserve the revenue. The fact is that the growers would welcome a return to the Scullin policy. The Tariff Board reported that £6,000,000 would be sufficient to collect from the industry, but to-day £S,000,000 or £2,000,000 more than was recommended by the board is being collected. Why does the honorable member not suggest that the industry should get the benefit of that £2,000,000. He is the president of the Tobacco Growers Association, but it would be interesting to know what time has elapsed since a ballot was taken, if ever, and how long he would survive if he had to face another vote of the growers. When the Leader of the Country party was speaking on this subject in 1932, he said -

Thu officers being already there, they may without much difficulty extend their activities by differentiating in the matter of excise between Australian-grown and imported leaf.

To that the honorable member for New England replied : “ It can he done “.

Mr Thompson:

– So it can be.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– When a vote was taken the honorable member for New England, who is now the Whip of a Coalition party, walked across the chamber in support of the Government and voted against the interests of the growers. The members of the deputation will not be pleased when they know that he has suggested to the Minister that he is agreeable to wait through a long recess before receiving any pronouncement of government policy. By that time we will be told that wool prices having decreased, the revenue must be further conserved, and that nothing can be done to assist the tobacco-growers, not even an effort to find them a market. The honorable member, while drawing his parliamentary allowance, will be leading deputations of Collins-street tobacco-growers and neglecting genuine growers, many of whom are on the dole. I ask the honorable member to visit the areas where tobacco is being produced and to obtain the views of the growers, instead of being influenced by those parasites who live on the growers. When the present Acting Prime Minister was in opposition, he criticised the Government’s attitude on the subject. I consider that the Government, which, as it were, issued false prospectuses in regard to the tobacco industry, was most unfair to the growers. Now it leaves them to face bankruptcy. In fact, the mining speculators who issued the prospectuses in regard to the Arnheim Land and The Granites gold-fields were gentlemen in comparison. We had every right to expect that the members of the Country party, who were members of this Parliament while the Scullin Government was in power, would support the amendment of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, for it does not go so far as the proposition the present Acting Prime Minister made to the Scullin Government concerning which the honorable member for New England said, “ it can be done “.

Mr Thompson:

– So it could have been done.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– The honorable member should stand up to his obligations like a man. It seems to me that some honorable members of the corner party like to parade their alleged interest in country people without accepting the responsibility of fighting for them. Whatever has been done for the tobaccogrowers since the Scullin Government went out of office has been done by the United Australia party, for it was done before the formation of the composite government. In a letter I have received from a gentleman interested in the tobaccogrowers there is a paragraph which merits the careful attention of honorable members. The writer says -

Here’s why the grower cannot be kept on his farm, unci why he deserves pity. He toils and spins but what does he get? The dole and a broken heart! For 50 years big John Foley, a sturdy son of the soil, a typical, clean-living Australian, went straight; then he committed his one great sin”. Ho grew tobacco, and the Federal Government fined him £321 19s. 6d. for doing so. The result was that Foley had to relinquish a comfortable home on the land, and now lives in a bag humpy in the bush near Guildford, New South Wales.

I was supplied with a copy of the statement of accounts of John Foley, who, at that time, lived at Ashfield near Inverell, with the Combined Growers Tobacco Manufacturers Company Limited, of Commercial-road, Valley, Brisbane, and it shows the following items : -

The net proceeds to Foley were £15 15s. 8d. Yet in spite of this fact, the President of the Australian Tobacco Growers Association, the honorable member for New England, is to-day advising the tobacco-growers to “ wait and see “ what the Government will do. The fight for this industry began on the 17th March, 1932, and this is the 9th April, 1935 ; yet honorable members of the Country party say, “Let us wait and see what will happen.” Foley’s case is a typical example of what is happening to many tobacco-growers. It is not cork-eye nor blue mould that is ruining them, but the lack of sympathy on the part of the Government. Foley was hunted from his home at a time when 30 per cent, of the people of this country were practically starving.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr FORDE:

– I desire to make a personal explanation. An injustice has been done me, and I have been misrepresented. The honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson) who has said that the Scullin Government, in which I was Minister for Trade and Customs, intended to reduce the protective incidence of the tariff, and that I had shown him in my office while I was Minister a tariff schedule designed to have this effect. That statement is absolutely incorrect. The honorable member must be labouring under a misapprehension. It is true that at a time when the tobacco-growers were producing a greater quantity of tobacco than had ever before been grown in Australia, the Treasury officials raised certain questions relating to a possible loss of revenue in consequence of the diminishing imports of tobacco into Australia, and the increased production of it here; but the Scullin Government, on my recommendation, decided that even if any alteration were made in the existing duties, the protective incidence of the tariff would not be lessened. To say that any proposals of the Government calculated to reduce the protection had been embodied in a tariff schedule for submission to Parliament is quite wrong. When I wa3 Minister for Trade and Customs I had many discussions with the members of the Select Committee which inquired into the tobacco industry at that time. The members of that committee were the honorable member for New England, the then honorable member for Barton (Mr. Tully), the then honorable member for Indi (Mr. Jones), the honorable member for Herbert (Mr. Martens), and the then honorable member for Darling Downs (Mr. Morgan) . I realize that the members of that committee, having travelled widely in the course of their inquiries into this industry, were in the position to give me useful advice in regard to it. The facts are that the Scullin Government increased the import duty on tobacco leaf from 3s. to 5s. 2d., per lb., and the Lyons Government subsequently reduced it to 3s. per lb. The Lyons Government actually took away what the Scullin Government had given.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I rise to a point of order. I submit that the remarks of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) are exceeding the bounds of a personal explanation.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I understood that the honorable member, having made his personal explanation, was proceeding to make a. second speech on the general subject; otherwise I should- have called him to order.

Mr FORDE:

– I do not desire to reenter the controversial field at this stage. I felt, however, that as the honorable member for New England (Mr. Thompson) had said that the Scullin Government intended to reduce the protective incidence of the tariff, and that I had shown him a proposed tariff schedule in my office , in that connexion, I was entitled to correct the misrepresentation. The Scullin Government made it clear that it had no intention whatever of altering the protective incidence of the tariff.

Mr Thompson:

– I also desire to make this personal explanation. I very much regret it if the Deputy Leader of the Opposition thinks that I wilfully misrepresented him in any way. It is news to me to learn that the many conversations I had with the honorable gentleman while he was Minister for Trade and Customs on the subject of tobacco were of an entirely confidential nature. “We were discussing tobacco almost every day at one stage, and I considered it my duty to give the Government whatever advice and assistance I could as Chairman of the Select Committee. I did not mean to say that the honorable member showed me a confidential document while he was Minister. In fact, if he had done so, I should not have known it unless the document had been so marked. In the course of our discussions, we frequently passed papers across the table, and made calculations with regard to the effect on the revenue of various proposals. The honorable gentleman has admitted that the Government was reconsidering the incidence of the tariff, and I think it was perfectly legitimate for me to say so. It was made clear to us that the reason for referring the subject to the Tariff Board was to enable it to consider the revenue aspect of it. I do not think that I have committed any dreadful breach of confidence in saying that the Tariff Board was asked to inquire into the whole matter.

Mr FORDE:

– I do not complain of that ; 1 complain that the honorable gentleman incorrectly stated that I showed him a proposed tariff schedule.

Mr Thompson:

– If I used those words I apologize to the honorable member. It was probably a slip of the tongue. But I wish to make it cleaT that the honorable gentleman did show me certain figures in regard to the tobacco industry which, he said, indicated that an entirely new position had arisen in regard to the revenue, and that, therefore, he proposed to refer the whole subject to the Tariff Board. I assure the’ honorable member that I appreciated his attitude towards me at that time. The last thing I would desire to do would be to commit a breach of confidence, and I am ve’ry sorry if it is thought that I have done so.

Motion (by Mr. Casey) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Me. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 31

12

AYES: 0

NOES: 19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the amount proposed to be reduced be so reduced (Mr. Forde’ s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 19

. 12

AYES: 0

NOES: 31

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved »in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Sitting suspended from 6.23 to 8 p.m.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

.- Two weeks ago a typhoon of a severe character, known locally as a willy-willy, came off the land near Broome, in Western Australia, and sank fourteen pearling luggers, resulting in the loss of 135 lives, and the destruction of property valued at £10,000. I have written to the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Casey) in regard to this disaster, and a deputation has waited on the Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page) With a request that a grant of money be made by the Commonwealth Government to those who lost everything in this storm. The pearling industry has been anything but prosperous lately, as can be understood when we learn that the price of shell has been as low as £90 a ton, although the lowest price at which the industry can be carried on at a profit i3 £180 a ton. I hope that the Government will recognize the claims of these people, and render assistance. Apart from the cattle industry, the port of Broome, which is the only one within the tropic of Capricorn in the west, depends upon the pearling industry for support, and this most recent disaster has given it a severe blow. At one time we were prepared to send food and other supplies to Japan when an earthquake caused damage and loss in Yokohama and Tokio. That was a praiseworthy intention, but now that we have suffered a disaster nearer home our first duty is to our own people. The people of the west believe that they have a grievance against federation ; let us demonstrate to them that we recognize that they are part of the Commonwealth, and, as such, are entitled to share in the benefits as well as the responsibilities of federation.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The honorable member for Kalgoorlie (Mr. A. Green) has presented a very complete case to the Government in favour of the granting of assistance to the pearlers of Broome, and I can assure him that the matter is at this moment being considered very carefully. Before coming to a decision the Government is seeking information as to what the State Government is doing. As regards the general question of assistance to the pearling industry, the Commonwealth Government, as the honorable member knows, has already made considerable sums available, and has promised to refer to the Tariff Board the claim of the industry for a bounty.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Will the Acting Treasurer recommend that the Tariff Board visit Broome in order to obtain first-hand information regarding the industry?

Mr CASEY:

– The activities of the Tariff Board are the concern of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White), but I shall place the views of the honorable member before that Minister.

Mr FRANCIS:
Moreton

.- Every year a substantial sum is voted for the upkeep of the solar observatory at Canberra, but nothing is ever learned of its activities, and no report from its director is ever placed before Parliament. This institution is one of a chain of solar observatories situated at intervals around the world. Their work is to take observations, exchange information, and coordinate reports for scientific purposes. I believe that, at the Canberra Observatory, excellent work is being done, but nobody ever hears anything of it. We vote the money in this Parliament, and with that our interest ceases. It would be only fair to the scientists who work at the observatory if the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson) were to arrange for the presentation of an annual report to Parliament regarding their activities so that honorable members would at least know how th? money is being spent.

Proposed vote agreed to. Proposed vote - Prime Minister’s Department, £90.990 - agreed to.

Department of the Treasury.

Proposed vote. £181,850. Mr. GARDEN (Cook) [8.10].- As an instruction to the Government to make provision forthwith to restore invalid and old-age pensions to the old rate of £1 per week, I move -

That the amount be. reduced by fi.

I have received communications from a large number of municipalities in Sydney, all of them urging that the pension be restored to the old rate. On some of those councils there are no Labour representatives at all, while on others the Labour representatives are not in a majority. The municipality of Botany, which has only two Labour representatives, has forwarded me, with its endorsement, the following letter which it received from the municipality of Newtown : -

I have the honour, by direction, to invite the kind co-operation of your council in an effort to have the old-age and invalid pensions restored to £1 per “week.

With the approach of the winter months the aged poor will have to incur the extra expense of wood and coal and other winter necessities, and I am to ask if the members of your council are willing to grant their valuable co-operation in this matter.

If so, will you kindly solicit the help of your Federal member in a request to the honorable the Prime Minister to make the suggested increase in these pensions to £1 per week at once, so that the pensioners may have the ordinary comforts of life during the winter months.

I have received similar letters from the municipalities of St. Peters, Alexandria, Waterloo and Mascot. The Commonwealth Government, which has felt justified in remitting millions of pounds of taxation to wealthy persons, should accede to these requests, and restore invalid and old-age pensions to £1 a week. Recently we voted £12,000,000 for the assistance of the farmers. Surely we can afford to pay a little more to the pensioners who were called on to make such a heavy sacrifice during the worst period of the financial depression. These pensioners are, for the most part, the men and women who did the pioneering work in Australia. We are being told every day that economic conditions are improving, and that prosperity has returned. If that be so, it should n-ot be difficult for us to do the right thing by the pensioners. I have no doubt that other honorable members have received communications similar to the one which I have just read, and I ask for their support in this attempt to have pensions restored. Many honorable members on the other side of the House have expressed their sympathy with the aged and infirm; now they have an opportunity to back up their protestations by their votes. I know that there are some honorable members who speak in favour of the pensioners’ claims, and take care that the pensioners receive copies of their remarks, but who, when it comes to a vote, refuse to stand by what they ‘have said. I am certain, however, that they will not, send to the pensioners a copy of the division list on my amendment.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The honorable member for Cook (Mr. Garden) has raised a major issue by his proposal to increase pensions from 17s. 6d. to £1 a week, and I can appreciate the humanitarian principles which have actuated the honorable member. The Government can bring forward no new arguments. This matter has been canvassed many times before in this House, and the shortest way to deal with it is to remind honorable members that the pension at present being paid - bearing in mind the present cost of living - has a higher purchasing power than ever before. The Commonwealth’s total pension bill for twelve months is £12,000,000, and there is a prospect of its being appreciably increased during the coming financial year. The present Government introduced the system of increasing pensions in accordance with the rise in the cost of living, and this was done when the cost of living was at its lowest point. On the 1st July next, by reason of the increased cost of living, the maximum rate of pension will automatically increase from 17s. 6d. to 18s. a week. A corresponding increase in the rate of all pensions below the maximum rate will also be made. It has already been mentioned in this House that the pension paid in Australia, with regard to both its amount and the conditions under which it is granted, is considerably more liberal than that granted in any other country. Only this morning a point was raised in this chamber that involved consideration of the old-age pension paid in Great Britain, and I was obliged to inform honorable members that the conditions under which the payment is made in the Old Country - the sum of 10s. a week is granted at the age of 70 years - are less liberal than those in Australia, although Britain is the richer country. The Government has considered every aspect of this matter, and regrets that, at the moment, it cannot see its way clear to increase the pension as proposed under the amendment. I move -

That the question be now put.

Question put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mb. Prowse.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 0

19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the amount proposed to be reduced be so reduced (Mr. Garden’s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 20

NOES: 28

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative. Amendment negatived. Mr. FORDE (Capricornia) [8.27].- I move -

That the amount be reduced by 10s.

I ask that this amendment be agreed to as an instruction to the Government to make representations to the British Government that it should take the necessary action to provide for the conversion of Australia’s overseas debts at a rate of interest in keeping with the rate of interest paid on the £2,000,000,000 of British debts converted at 2^ per cent. Australia borrowed in London £547,000,000, and during the last two years, loans aggregating £147,000,000 were converted at an average rate of £3 14s. 7d. per cent. That, leaves £400,000,000 still owing overseas, but including £S0,000,000 of debt owing to the British Government. The interest payments on the British debt have been suspended, but are, of course, accruing, and sooner or later will probably have to be made. Our annual interest bill overseas is approximately £28,000,000, or £35,000,000 in Australian currency. The London debt to-day, excluding the loans converted in the last two years, and also the debt due to the British Government, is £323,000,000, for which the rate of interest is now £4 5s. 7d. per cent. The amount included in this debt, bearing interest at the rate of 5 per cent., is £150,000,000, while an amount of £18,000,000 bears interest at the rate of 54 per cent., notwithstanding the fact that the British Government was able, a couple of years ago, to convert £2,000,000,000 at a rate of 24 per cent. 1. submit that the time has arrived for the Commonwealth Government to make a definite statement as to what action it has taken or is about to take with a view to affecting the conversion of the whole of our overseas indebtedness at a substantially reduced rate.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The Government is in complete agreement with’ the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde) in one respect only; that is, that this country should get the benefit as soon as possible, and progressively, of lower interest rates, by conversions honestly carried out ‘ on the British market. I understood the honorable gentleman to place the average interest rate on our loans in Great Britain at a figure which conveniently ignores the fact that Great Britain has remitted interest and sinking fund on the whole of the £90,000,000 which represents our war debt.

Mr Forde:

– I said that.

Mr CASEY:

– The honorable gentleman should have adjusted the average interest rate so as to take that into account, if he wished to present an unbiased case to the committee. The correct figures are substantially different from those which he gave. The remission of interest and sinking fund voluntarily made by the British Government with respect to the whole of our war debt amounted to £5,550,000 sterlings - £7,000,000 in Australian currency. That is the only debt which Australia now owes to a government. The remainder of our indebtedness lies with hundreds of thousands of British investors, with whom the British Government has no concern. I remind the honorable gentleman that Australia is not a Crown colony, but a self-governing dominion over which the British Government can exercise no control. It does not guarantee our loans, and accepts no responsibility for them. It is, therefore, entirely unpractical to suggest that we should approach the British Government for the reduction of the interest rate on loans raised from hundreds of thousands of individuals. Such a loan cannot be funded. That action may be taken only with one individual or instrumentality.

I have said that the Government is in complete agreement with the honorable gentleman in respect of the gradual reduction, by honest and progressive methods, of our interest bill to the United Kingdom. That is shown by the half-dozen successful conversions which it has carried out on the British market,’ whereby the interest bill on the £500,000,000 of indebtedness in Great Britain has been reduced in the relatively short period of about eighteen months by something over 12s. per cent. That effort by the Loan Council and the High Commissioner in London is something of which the Government is rightly proud, because it was characterized by honest methods. But the Government is in complete disagreement with any “ stand and deliver “ attitude, first because it is quite impossible to sustain, and, secondly, because any benefit that might be derived in a monetary sense would be many times offset by the destruction of our credit in every country beyond Australia’s shores. We are in complete disagreement with everything of substance put forward by the honorable gentleman. I move -

That the question be now put.

Question put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 31

NOES: 31

Majority , . . . 12 (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 19

Majority

12

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative. Amendment negatived.

Mr GANDER:
Reid

.- As a direction to the Government that the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act be amended forthwith to permit all blind citizens to receive the full rate of 17s. 6d. a week I move -

That the amount be reduced by 5s.

All honorable members, I understand, have received a circular from the Blind Pensioners Association setting out grave anomalies in the Invalid and Oldage Pensions Act which harshly affect certain blind persons under certain circumstances. A blind man who sells tea from door to door may receive a pension, whilst another who sells ordinary goods from door to door is denied a pension. Another anomaly is that a blind man who sets up a stand for the sale of newspapers is .granted a pension, whereas another who sets up a stand for the sale of tobacco and cigarettes, even though he may work longer hours than the former, is refused a pension. These arc grave injustices. I think every honorable member has received one of these circulars, and I am led to understand that Mr. Campbell, the secretary of the Blind Institute of New South Wales, has received replies to that circular from members of the Government. I believe that you, Mr. Prowse, replied to it promising your support for any move to rectify these anomalies Here is an opportunity for honorable members to achieve that purpose by voting for the amendment which I have just moved, which virtually instructs the Government to reconsider this item and make better provision for these unfortunate people. I trust that members of the Government will support the amendment.

Mr CASEY:
Acting Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The honorable member who has just moved the amendment has acted quite clearly under a misapprehension, because the limitations which he suggests exist in respect to blind pensioners or blind applicants for pensions by reason of their occupation, such as hawking tea or other goods, are, generally speaking, non-existent. There is only one qualification against a blind person receiving a pension, and that is that he or she must not solicit alms in the street or engage in occupations which are, in effect, the soliciting of alms. That is the only limitation in this respect. The cases mentioned by the honorable member such a3 the selling of matches, cigarettes or anything else are quite imaginary. No question of that sort arises. The total allowable income of a blind pensioner is £4 5s. a week, including pension, compared with 30s. a. week, including pension, allowed to non-blind pensioners. Very few blind pensioners can be suffering any disability by reason of the pension being 17s. 6d., because I think in the vast majority of cases the earning power allowed them, over and above the pension, will compensate them for any slight disability they may suffer in respect of the pension itself. The Government has adopted a very liberal and reasonable attitude towards blind pensioners and blind applicants for pensions, and I regret that it cannot accept the amendment. I move -

That the question be now put.

Question put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

30 19

11

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the amount proposed to be reduced be so reduced (Mr. Gander’s amendment) - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes .. .. ..19

29

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative. Amendment negatived.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne Ports

.- Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. Archdale Parkhill) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

19

10

In division:

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote put and agreed to. Proposed vote, Attorney-General’s Department, £41,320 - agreed to.

Department of the Interior.

Proposed Vote, £87,980

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- I ask the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson) whether he intends to investigate certain serious charges made by Mr. Eric Campbell in regard to the conduct of the last election? The saying that when thieves fall out, honest men get their dues has been well illustrated in the course of the quarrel between Mr. Eric Campbell and the United Australia party, for the individual I have named has not only charged the Government with malpractice during the election campaign, but put into print an account of what he alleges took place. I understand that it is an offence for any person to intimidate an elector in respect of his vote. Mr. Eric Campbell, who was associated with an organization known as the New Guard, has made that charge against the Government.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I must ask the honorable member not to discuss matters irrelevant to the items in. the schedule.

Mr WARD:

– The Department of the Interior is responsible for the conduct of elections and if it can be shown that there were malpractices by certain supporters of the Government during the last election compaign-

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member will not be in order in doing what he proposes. The opportunity for a general debate was given on the first item, which has been disposed of. The honorable member must now confine his remarks to the items referred to in the proposed vote now before the Chair.

Mr Ward:

– I can understand your desire, Mr. Chairman, to assist the Government in stifling discussion in committee.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member must withdraw that remark.

Mr Ward:

– Very well, I withdraw it. Motion (by Mr. Archdale Parkhill) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

19

In division:

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

The- only occasion we did make a bargain to be paid our expenses was when we pasted up 85,000 “ Red Wrecker “ posters, on the eve of the federal election. This ran into £300. We are still waiting to be paid.

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Proposed vote put and agreed to.

Department of Defence

Proposed vote, £1,049,950. Motion (by Archdale Parkhill) put-

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

29 19

10

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote put and agreed to.

Department of Trade and Customs

Proposed vote, £136,560.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Werriwa

– I wish to bring under the notice of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) a matter which I raised by way of question a week or two ago in the House. I then asked him if he was aware that imported motor cars were being put on the road as new cars which were an immediate danger not only to the people who had to drive them, but to those on the roads as well. The Minister replied that he did not think that, if such cars were in existence, many of them would l>e sold. That is an argument which has always been used on the conservative side, expressing, as it does, the spirit of the old days of laissez faire. At one time we were told that there was no need to pass a law to prevent people from adulterating foods, because they would not be able to sell any.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member is not in order. The question before the Chair is the proposed vote for the Department of Trade and Customs. The honorable member must confine himself to the items under that department. It has always been ruled that in Committee of Supply, after the general debate on the first item has terminated, the discussion must be relevant to the proposed vote before the Chair, and that no more than a passing reference may be made to other matters.

Mr WHITE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Balaclava · UAP

.- If the honorable member will write to me on the subject, I shall answer him. I move -

That the question be now put.

Question - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Ms. Prowse.)

AYES: 29

NOES: 19

Majority

10

AYES

NOES

Department or Health

Proposed vote, £26,630.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne Porta

– A few weeks ago the Minister for Health (Mr. Hughes) received a deputation from representatives of the tubercular soldiers and members of this House who preferred a request that pensions should be granted to all soldiers suffering from tuberculosis, even to those who are not able to prove that their condition arose out of their war service. The Minister gave the deputation a very sympathetic hearing, but said that the heavy cost which would be involved made it unlikely that the request could be acceded to. The deputation then suggested that the Government should consider the possibility of granting pensions to all soldiers suffering from tuberculosis who were permanent inmates of a sanatorium. It was also asked that the department be instructed to be a little more sympathetic when determining whether or not the disease arose out of an applicant’s war service. The Minister informed the deputation that he would consider the alternative request, and I now urge him to induce the Government to accede to it.

Mr HUGHES:
Minister for Health · North Sydney · UAP

.- I shall, of course, look into the matters mentioned by the honorable member. Solus populi suprema lex est. I move -

That the question be now put.

Question - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 32

13

AYES: 0

NOES: 19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote put and agreed to.

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote put and agreed to.

Department of Commerce

Proposed vote, £87,050.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

.- I desire to ask the Minister for Commerce what becomes of letters addressed to him on the subject of lighthouses. Two years ago I wrote a letter to the Minister and did not receive a reply for six months. Six weeks ago I wrote another letter to the Minister, and have not yet received a reply. I do not blame the Minister, but I blame that branch of his department which deals with lighthouses: The subject of my last letter was the installation of a light at the port of Esperance, where there is a new jetty. Western Australia possesses half the coastline of Australia, but has only oneseventh of the lighthouses.

Dr. Earle Page having risen to address the Chair,

Motion (by Mr. Riordan) proposed -

That the right honorable member be not further heard.

The CHAIRMAN:

– 1 have not heard the Acting Prime Minister. The motion, therefore, is not in order.

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) proposed -

That the question be now put.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– I rise to a point of order.

The CHAIRMAN:

– This motion cannot be debated. The question is “ That the question be now put “.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– You are not giving honorable members on this side a fair deal, Mr. Chairman. When the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) sat down, I asked whether the question had been sufficiently debated, and you said that it was not your function to consider that.

Question put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

32 19

13

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the proposed vote be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 32

NOES: 19

Majority

13

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Proposed vote agreed to.

Honorable members interjecting, Mr. Brennan. - I hope that the honorable member for Kennedy will not he the only member called upon to observe order. I respectfully crave the right, especially at a critical time like this, when passions are aroused - and I think very naturally - to state my point of order. I submit that the Standing Orders do not prescribe any fixed form or terms of an apology. In fact, I most respectfully question your right, Mr. Chairman, to call upon an honorable member to apologize after several minutes have elapsed. I submit that you certainly may call him to order and require him to withdraw offensive utterances, if any have been made; but, long after order has been restored, and when perfect peace reigns, at least for the moment, it is quite a new procedure, I respectfully submit, to call upon an honorable member to apologize and thus accentuate the heated feeling that has been engendered. I submit, sir, that inasmuch as the honorable member was called upon to apologize he was entitled to do so in his own appropriate words or suffer the inevitable consequences of the course of action followed by you.

In reply to the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) I would point out that chastisement cannot be administered by the Chairman to an honorable member while the committee is in division. If the honorable member for Kennedy (Mr. Riordan) had had administered to him the chastisement that he certainly deserved, he would have been named. He is a temporary chairman of committees, and I give him another opportunity to withdraw the remarks he has made and apologize to the Chair for his conduct. In the absence of that withdrawal and apology, I must take further steps to maintain the dignity of the Chair.

Mi1. Riordan. - I withdraw.

Proposed vote, £146,370.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) put - That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 31

19

12

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative..

Question - That the proposed vote be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 31

NOES: 19

Majority

12

AYES

NOES

Question so r resolved in the affirmative.

Proposed vote agreed to.

War Services

Proposed vote, £205,960.

Mr MULCAHY:
Lang

.- Mr.

Chairman- -

Motion (by Mr. Casey) put - ‘

That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mk. Prowse.)

30 19

11

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the proposed vote be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . ‘. . 30

19

11

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote agreed to.

Business Undertakings

Proposed votes - Commonwealth Railways, £125,380; Postmaster-General’s Department, £2,379,080.

Motion (by Mr. Paterson) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 19

Majority

11

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the proposed votes be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 0

Majority

19

11

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed votes agreed to.

Territories of the Commonwealth.

Proposed vote, £104,820.

Motion (by Mr. Paterson) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Ch. airman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 30

11

AYES: 0

NOES: 19

Majority .

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question- That the proposed vote be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 28

AYES: 0

NOES: 19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Proposed vote agreed to.

Proposed votes - Refunds of Revenue, £500,000; Advance to Treasurer, £1,000,000.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

.- I desire to bring under the notice of the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Casey) a matterrelating to the invalid and old-age pension administration affecting people who live in remote areas. The department requires each applicant for a pension to submit a doctor’s certificate with the claim. In the case of very poor people this is a hardship; and in that of those who live in remote parts of North Queensland it is a considerable difficulty, for it frequently happens that no doctor is available within a reasonable distance. In such cases a previous certificate obtained by the applicant should be sufficient. Aged persons who live in isolated places usually consult medical practitioners when they have the opportunity to do so, and are often advised to apply for the pension, but for one reason or another do not do so at the time. 1 consider that a medical certificate obtained on such a visit to a medical practitioner should meet the requirements of the department. By the time a medical certificate is available, and investigations have been made by the department, these people are practically at death’s door. It is an easy matter to deal with invalid pensions within- an area which can be reached by a. medical officer. Is there no chance of a government medical officer visiting these remote parts, where there is no doctor, at least once a year to give these certificates? Often a pension is granted to an invalid, and a review is necessary at .the end of twelve months to ensure its renewal. I can instance the case of a man at Gregory Downs where there is no police station. The nearest is 80 miles away and the nearest doctor is 380 miles away. At the end of twelve months, although the invalid pensioner is really worse in health than when the pension was granted, his pension is cut off because he is unable to obtain a medical review, the reason being the impossibility of his reaching a doctor. There should be some means whereby in country districts, in cases such as I have quoted, the pension could be continued until such time as a doctor, or, failing a doctor, the man in charge of the nearest police station, visits the district. The police are constantly on patrol through these towns, and could furnish reports to the Pensions Department. This, I am sure, would meet the emergency. I am confident that the Acting Treasurer will give favorable consideration to these cases. The difficulty occurs, also, in the electorate of Maranoa, represented by the Assistant Minister (Mr. Hunter). Cases of this kind cause a good deal of trouble, and could, I think, be handled more generously. I am confident that the Minister will take some action, in connexion with them. Quorum formed.] Motion (by Mr. Casey) put -

That the question bc now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 18

Majority . . . . 7

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the proposed votes be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 18

Majority . . . . 9

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Proposed votes agreed to. Preamble agreed to. Title.

Question - That the title be the title of the bill - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 19

Majority . . S

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Title agreed to.

Motion (by Mr. Casey) proposed -

That the bill be reported without amendment.

Motion (by Mr. Archdale Parkhill) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 0

19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative

Question - That the bill ‘be reported without amendment - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill reported without amendment. Motion (by Mr. Casey) proposed -

That the report be adopted.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- I take this opportunity-

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 0

Majority

19

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the report be adopted -put. The House divided. (Mr. SpeakerAyes . . Noes . .

. 27 . 19

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority -Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Report adopted.

Third Reading

Motion (by Mr. Casey) proposed - That the bill be now read a third time.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

.- Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. Archdale Parkhill) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mk. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the bill be now read a third time - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 19

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a third time.

page 1115

LOAN (FARMERS’ DEBT ADJUSTMENT) BILL 1935

Bill returned from the Senate with amendments.

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) put -

That the foregoing message be taken into consideration in committee of the whole House at a later hour this day.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . 30

AYES: 0

NOES: 20

Majority . . . . 10

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 1116

BILLS RETURNED FROM THE SENATE

The following bills were returned from the Senate without amendment or requests : -

Sales Tax Procedure Bill 1935.

Sales Tax Assessment Bill (No. 1) 1935.

Sales Tax Assessment Bill (No. 9) 1935.

Sales Tax Bill (No. 9) 1935.

Wheat Growers Relief Bill 1935.

page 1116

IMMIGRATION BILL 1935

Bill received from the Senate. Motion (by Mr. Hughes) put - That the bill be now read a first time. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. j. Bell.)

AYES: 31

NOES: 19

Majority 12

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a first time.

Motion (by Mr. Hughes) put -

That the second reading be made an Order of the Day for the next sitting.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. j. Bell.)

AYES: 29

NOES: 19

Majority

10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

page 1117

CUSTOMS TARIFF VALIDATION BILL 1935

Second Beading. Debate resumed from the 28th March (vide page 449), on motion by Mr. White -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- I regret that we have to debate such an important bill as this at such a late hour in the evening. The Government evidently has ‘made up its mind to gc into a lengthy recess of five or six months.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).Order ! Mr. FORDE. - I move-

That all the words after the word “That” be omitted with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words, “ the bill be withdrawn and that the Blouse proceed with the consideration of the Customs Tariff Schedule, item by item, before Parliament adjourns for recess “.

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931; LP from 1944

– As the amendment relates to the Customs Tariff and not to the Validation Bill before the House I submit it cannot be debated.

Mr SPEAKER:

– -The customs tariff schedule which this bill validates may be debated, but it appears to me that the amendment moved by the honorable the Deputy Leader of the Opposition is a direct negative of the motion, and the honorable member could achieve his object by voting against the motion. Therefore, I rule that the amendment is not in order.

Mr FORDE:

– I did not refer to the Customs Tariff Act at all. I referred to the schedule. The Minister has made his speech on the bill which validates 200 reductions in duties and now I am speaking for the Opposition.

Mr SPEAKER:

– My ruling was based not on the point raised by the honorable the Minister, but on the ground that the amendment was a direct negative.

Mr FORDE:

– I bow to your ruling, Mr. Speaker. However, I contend that this House should proceed with the consideration of the customs tariff schedule, item by item, before it adjourns for the recess. When introducing these measures, the Minister attempted to lead the House to believe that they were innocuous, and that they were merely to validate collections of tariff under the tariff proposals of the 6th December last to the 30th September. He said that under section 226 of the act it is necessary that the schedule recently introduced be validated during this session. The necessity for passing this validating bill at this juncture arises from action taken by the Minister himself last year when he amended the act by inserting the words - or before the expiration of six months after such tariff, or tariff alteration, is proposed, whichever first happens.

This new section, which became operative as from the 1st January, 1935, was added at the behest of the free-trade element in the Government and the Country party. The Government was warned at that time that the amendment would react against itself. Thus, the Minister has been “ hoist with his own petard “. I believe the Minister realized that the suggestions made by the Country party in this regard were quite unreasonable, but, eventually, he yielded to the pressure from the Country party which was not then in the Government, but whose absorption in the Government was then being contemplated. The position under the act is that, unless a tariff proposal be passed by both houses within six months of its introduction, importers who have paid duties at a rate higher than those provided by the previously existing tariff can issue writs for the recovery of the extra duty paid, and the department will have no legal defence in such a case.

In view of the statements made by the Minister before the act was amended, I am of the opinion that there is no justification for a six months’ delay of the debate on the tariff schedule that was introduced in December. What is there to prevent Parliament from sitting on and considering this important schedule which sets out to reduce duties on over 200 items ? We are asked to validate this schedule without being given an opportunity to vote on each item, and without being able to say, by our vote in this House, whether we approve or disapprove of the duties recommended by the Minister in the schedule.

Wednesday, 10 April 1935

Mr White:

– Honorable members are being asked to validate the collection of the money not the rates of duty.

Mr FORDE:

– We are asked to validate the whole schedule comprising over 200 reductions. The Minister in introducing this measure said -

The validating bill now before the House would be unnecessary were the present session to be a long one or if we were able to devote the whole of the time of the present session to consideration of the schedule, irrespective of other important matters needing attention.

On whom rests the responsibility for the short session? The Opposition cannot be accused of rushing the Government into a long recess.

Mr White:

– A great deal of time has’ been wasted to-night.

Mr FORDE:

– That is not so, for nearly £7,000,000 has been voted for public expenditure since the Leader of the Opposition moved his amendment yesterday. Discussion was absolutely stifled on the Supply Bill. Honorable members should be given an opportunity to deal with the tariff schedule item by item, so that they could suggest certain increases of duties in order to protect the industries of this country. For many years decreases of customs duty operated only from the date on which the schedule was passed by Parliament, but nowadays decreases operate from, the day on which a schedule is tabled. Reductions of duty are, therefore, very serious to our industries. It is true that the Scullin Government brought into effect drastic increases of duties on certain imports, but drastic remedies were required at that time in order to stem the flood of imports into this country, and to rectify our adverse trade balance. The finances of the country had to be stabilized and our industries adequately protected. It was necessary to allow some time to elapse after the tabling of those schedules in order to ascertain their effect on our trade balance. The Scullin Government was -most unfairly criticized by the present Minister for Trade and Customs and the present Minister for Defence, when they were sitting in opposition, for not providing an opportunity for the schedules to be discussed immediately they were tabled. <

Before directing attention to some of the eloquent statements made by the Opposition of that day on that subject, I wish to refer briefly to the reductions made in this schedule on 205 items of the tariff. [Quorum formed.] Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The House divided. (Mb. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 28

AYES: 0

NOES: 19

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the bill be now read a second time - put. The House divided. (Me. SPEAKER - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 26

AYES: 0

NOES: 20

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 (Short title).

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. ( Chairman - Mr. PROWSE. Ayes . . . . . . 25

AYES: 0

NOES: 20

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question - That the clause be agreed to- put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes . . . . . . 25

AYES: 0

NOES: 20

Majority . . . . 5

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 (Validation of collections under Tariff Proposals).

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mk. Prowse.)

26 20

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the clause be agreed to. -put. The- committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

25 20

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Clause agreed to.

Title.

Several honorable members rising to address the committee,

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 20

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the title be the title of the bill - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 20

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Title agreed to.

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the bill be reported without amendment.

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mb. Prowse.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 0

AYES

NOES

Foes . . . . 20

Majority

Question - That the bill be reported without amendment - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 0

Majority

20 6

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill reported without amendment. Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the report be adopted.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now_put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 19

Majority . . . . 8

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the report be adopted - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 20

Majority

7-

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Report adopted.

Motion (by Mr. “White) proposed -

That the Standing Orders be suspended to enable the remaining stage to be passed without delay.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. “White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 20

Majority . . . . 7

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the Standing Orders be suspended - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

29 20

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Standing Orders suspended.

Third Reading

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the bill be now read a third time.

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)Ayes . . . . . . 29

AYES: 0

NOES: 20

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the bill be now read a third time - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

29 20

In division:

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member’s question is frivolous. He must be perfectly well aware, if he has been following the proceedings, that the division just taken was on the question “ That the question be now put”.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– “What may appear frivolous to you may be a national question with me.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The conduct of honorable members is such as to make it extremely difficult to follow the proceedings. Even I have experienced some difficulty on that account.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Yet you have just implied that my lack of knowledge of what had happened was due to my failure to follow the proceedings ! You, apparently, are in the same position.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! The Chair is not in the same position as the honorable member. It is endeavouring to have the business conducted in an orderly manner, whereas the misconduct of the honorable member is responsible for his own confusion and my difficulty. If the honorable member continues to be offensive I shall promptly name him. So far I have treated him tolerantly. I shall not maintain that attitude if he should prove himself undeserving of toleration.

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

– I have been warned all night.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order ! If the honorable member again interjects I shall name him without further warning.

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a third time.

Sitting suspended from 1.80 to % a.m. [Quorum formed.]

page 1124

CUSTOMS TARIFF (EXCHANGE ADJUSTMENT ) VALIDATION BILL 1935

Second Reading

Debate resumed from the 28th March (vide page 449), on motion by Mr. White -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

– This is one of three customs validation bills introduced by the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. White) about three weeks ago. When discussing another validating measure, and when interrupted by thu application of the “ gag “, I was pointing out that on the 22nd October, 1931, the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) moved an amendment on the measure then before the House to provide that all customs tariffs should be considered and a decision reached upon them within 90 days of being tabled. The proposal was supported by the present Minister for Trade and Customs, the present Minister for Defence (Mr. Parkhill), the honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett), the right honorable member for North Sydney (Mr. Hughes), the then member for Kooyong (Mr. Latham), the honorable member for Fawkner (Mr. Maxwell), the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn), and the presentMinister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson), as well as a number of others. Those honorable members contended that the tariff schedules should be discussed item by item, so that proper consideration could be given to the Government’s fiscal policy. During the war period there was some justification for the ratification of tariff schedules being delayed for perhaps three or four years owing to the urgency of other business. The Government ‘cannot, however, say that there is insufficient time available on this occasion, because Parliament now proposes to go into recess for about five months. Although the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) and three other Ministers are in London, the divisions just taken show that the Government still has a majority. The present Minister for Defence, who claimed that the items should be dealt with seriatim, also said -

The effect of the new clause if agreed to will be. that tariff schedules must be’ ratified by Parliament within six months. The intention. of the Government’s amendment is to hasten the consideration of customs taxation proposals which concern every one. The clause is a good one.

Is he now doing what he said should be done ? The honorable member for Swan said -

I hope the clause will be approved by honorable members. We should insist on tariff schedules being passed by both chambers more particularly if those resolutions affect the taxation of the people. The Minister has said clearly that customs schedules must be ratified by Parliament within six months or the duties collected pursuant to their provision must be refunded.

It would be interesting to know bow the honorable member will vote on the bill now before the House. The present Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson), who took an active part in the debate, said -

The Minister should have set out in direct and simple language that a customs schedule must he ratified within six months of its having been, tabled.

The honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn) said -

The schedule should become void if it is not ratified within six months.

The honorable member for Henty (Sir Henry Gullett) stated -

The language should bc more binding. .11 a schedule is not ratified within six mouths it should pass right out of consideration.

I realize that many difficulties must confront the Minister for Trade and Customs in an endeavour to harmonize the divergent fiscal views of the supporters of the present Government. The honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse), the honorable member foi’ Perth and the honorable member for Swan are ardent free traders, while the honorable member for Parkes (Sir Charles Marr), the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Bernard Corser) and the right honorable member for North Sydney (Mr. W. M. Hughes) believe in adequate protection. The Leader of the Government in the Senate (Sir George Pearce) is a freetrade eagle when in Perth, but he attends dinners of the Chamber of Manufactures when in the eastern States. The right honorable the Prime Minister (‘Mr. Lyons), speaking in Adelaide on the 8th of July, 1934, said -

To render factories idle is to strike a blow at the most important market for primary producers. It is as essential for the welfare of the man on the land as for the man In the city that factory employment should be maintained.

That was before a composite ministry was formed. I should like to know if the Minister for Trade and Customs has seen the cablegram sent to the Prime Minister protesting against what has been done by the Government behind his back and in spite of the definite assurances made by him to a deputation in Melbourne before he left Australia. The cablegram reads -

The Associated Chambers of Manufactures of Australia deprecate your published rejection of our opinion that substantially reduced duties mean injury to sections of Australian industry. At our interview before your departure emphasis was given to the close relationship between tariff insecurity and Australian unemployment. Attention was also directed to the alarming diminution of our credit reserves overseas. The continuing lowering of protective duties is economically indefensible and is not being practised elsewhere.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon G J Bell:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

I remind the Deputy Leader of the Opposition that this bill does not validate the tariff schedule introduced during this session, and it appears to me that this is the schedule which the honorable member is debating.

Mr FORDE:

– The bill to validate the tariff schedule introduced by the Minister for Trade and Customs on the 6th December, provides for a reduction of duties on 205 items and we have been asked to validate those duties up to the 30th November. I should like to bring before the Minister the serious effect which the Government’s fiscal policy has upon our overseas trade balance. The Commonwealth Statistician, in showing the drift that is taking place, states that the imports of merchandise in February. 1935, were valued at £5,349,000, compared with £4,848,000 sterling in February, 1934, or an increase of 10 per cent., and that the exports of merchandise in February, 1935, were valued at £7,965,000, compared with £9,090,000 sterling in the previous February, a decrease of 12 per cent. According to the Commonwealth Statistician our importations of the following classes of goods increased in the eight months of 1934-35 compared with the eight, months of 1933-34 as follows : -

The increase in the value of textile imports in the period under review was, it will be seen, nearly £2,000,000.

Mr White:

– What about the employment figures?

Mr FORDE:

– I snail come to them presently. It is a fact beyond dispute that 400,000 of our people are still out of employment. Although it is in the interests of the Empire as a whole that Australia should carry a larger population than at present, the Government seems to do its best to check the development of our secondary industries, upon which, of course, depends the development of our primary industries. Our primary and secondary industries must develop side by side. Any policy which checks this is suicidal. Instead of living up to its pre-election promises, the Government has backed and filled to every freetrade element in the community, and truckled to foreign traders and importing interests.

Mr White:

– I think the honorable member might bear in mind that he is supposed to be discussing the Exchange Adjustment Bill.

Mr FORDE:

– The present Minister for the, Interior (Mr. Paterson), in the course of a tariff debate in this chamber on the 9th March, 1933, said-

I am prepared to support this or any other Government in reducing by half the duty on every item of the tariff.

But the Nationalist party has taken this honorable member to its bosom and excluded from the Ministry several United Australia party members whose views were favorable to protection.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is not now discussing the bill.

Mr FORDE:

– I was prevented from making these observations when another measure was under consideration.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member may not now refer to a debate on another measure.

Mr FORDE:

– I submit that exchange adjustment must necessarily have an important influence upon the protectionist policy of this country and that I am therefore entitled to deal with the subject from the employment view-point. Statistics show that, on the average, one Australian is thrown out of employment when goods of Australian production to the value of £864 are diverted overseas. On that basis the diversion of the output of Australian factories to the extent of one per cent, would throw 4,465 workers out of employment, a diversion of 10 per cent, would throw 44,650 workers out of employment, and a diversion to the extent of 20 per cent, would render idle 89,311 workers.

I am surprised that the Minister in charge of this bill, who was, many years ago, an ardent protectionist, even to the extent of supporting the prohibition of certain imports, should now, by means of exchange adjustment and other practices, allow goods of foreign countries produced under low wages to win a commanding position in the markets of Australia at a time when more than 400,000 of our people are still out of employment and 1,000,000 of them are in most difficult circumstances. I should like to refer to a statement made by the Minister in which he unfairly attributed unemployment in Australia to our protectionist policy. Every fair-minded elector knows that the depression, in its darkest hours, hit protectionist and free trade countries with equal severity. In low-wage countries and in countries with better standards, acute unemployment was experienced in the depth of the depression. In those dark days, the national income of Australia fell by £200,000,000, and the nation was faced with a deficit of £10,000,000, and an adverse trade balance of £78,000,000. The world economic survey published by the League of Nations showed that by June, 1933, the money value of world trade had shrunk by two-thirds. Although in Australia we have increased our volume of exports by 25 per cent, since the beginning of the depression, the value in pounds sterling is still only £90,000,000, compared with £140,000,000 in gold currency for a smaller volume of trade before the depression. The depression began to make its presence felt towards the’ end of 1929. The number of persons employed in the factories of Australia was 450,000 in 1928-29. and 419.000 in 1929-30, a falling off of 31,000. For practically half the financial year 1929-30, a Nationalist government was in office; but as the result of the Scullin Government’s protectionist policy put into operation in the second half of that year our factories were able to develop their trade.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I again remind the honorable member that he must confine his remarks to the subject-matter of the bill.

Mr FORDE:

– The rate of exchange, as manipulated by this Government, has had the effect of whittling away the protection afforded to our industries by the Scullin Government’s beneficent policy. Compared with 1931-32, there was an increase of employment in the factories of Australia in 1933-34 of 68,000 persons, and this, I contend, was entirely due to the Scullin Government’s protectionist policy. The present Government is doing a great dis-service to the Commonwealth by giving effect to the requests of free traders and persons interested in :he importing business to “ butcher “’ the tariff. Since 1911 the population of Australia has increased by 2,000,000, and most of these are supported by the secondary industries. There are 50,000 fewer persons engaged in primary production to-day than there were in 1911, although 9,000,000 acres more land is under cultivation, and the quantity of wool produced annually has increased by 200,000,000 lb. ‘ To listen to some of the representatives of the Country party, one would imagine that the primary producers have not benefited in any way from the protection policy, but that is not so. On the local market the butter producers sell 46 per cent, of their product, the cheese producers 68 per cent., the sugar producers 64 per cent., the dried fruit-growers 39 per cent., and the mutton and lamb producers 82 per cent.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I cannot see the relevancy of the honorable member’s remarks.

Mr FORDE:

– The exchange adjustment legislation in connexion with tariff reductions has largely deprived Australian industries of the benefits of protection.

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mit. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 18

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the bill be now read a second time– put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

. 26 IS . S

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in tlie affirmative. Bill read a second time. In committee: Clause 1 (Short title). Question - That the clause be agreed to -put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mk. Prowse.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 (Validation of alterations in variations of duty).

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. “White) put -

That the question bc now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Prowse.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 18

Majority . . 7

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the clause be agreed to put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mb. Prowse.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Clause agreed to.

Title.

Mr BAKER:
Griffith

M.r. Chairman–

Motion (by Mr. White) put - That the question bc now put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mk. Prowse.)

25 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the title be the title of the bill - put. The committee divided. ( Chairman - Mr. Prowse. )

25 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Title agreed to.

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the bill be reported without amendment.

Mr ROSEVEAR:
Dalley

Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Cil airman - Mr. Prowse.) Ayes

25 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the hill be reported without amendment - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Ms. Prowse.)

25 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so ‘resolved in the affirmative. Bill reported without amendment. Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the report be adopted.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 26

18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the report be adopted put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 25

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Report adopted.

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the Standing Orders be suspended to enable the remaining stage to be passed without delay.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

. Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker- - Hon. G-. J. Bell.)

26 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the Standing Orders be suspended to enable the remaining stage to be passed without delay - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . 26

18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Standing Orders suspended.

Third Reading

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed - That the bill be now read a third time. Mr. RIORDAN (Kennedy) [3.45 a.m.]. - Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . 25

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Question - That the hill be now read a third time - put. The House divided. (Mk. Speaker - How. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative, Bill read s. third tine

page 1132

CUSTOMS TARIFF (CANADIAN PREFERENCE) VALIDATION BILL 1935

Second Reading. Debate resumed from the 28th March (vide page 449), on motion by Mr. White -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

. -Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the bill be now read a second time - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 26

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clause 1 (Short title).

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

. -Mr. Chairman- -

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Mb. John Lawson.) Ayes .. .. ..27

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question - That the clause be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Mr. John Lawson.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 (Validation of collections under tariff proposals).

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931

. -Sir-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Mr. Joh* Lawson.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 17

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the clause be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Mr. John Lawson.)

27 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Clause agreed to.

Title.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

. Mr. Chairman- -

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put. The committee divided. ( Temporary Chairman - Mr. John Lawson.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the title be the title of the bill - put. The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Mr. John Lawson.) .

AYES: 26

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved iu the affirmative. Title agreed to.

Motion (by Mr. Whits) proposed -

That the bill be reported without amendment.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Tempos abt Chairman - Ms. John Lawson.) Ayes . . 27

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the bill be reported without amendment - put. The committee divided. (Temporary Chairman - Ma. John Lawson.)

26 18

AYES: 0

NOES: 0

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill reported without amendment. Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the report be adopted.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

Mr. Speaker-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mb. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 18

Majority 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the report be adopted -put. The House divided. (Mb. Speaker - Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . 27

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Report adopted.

Motion (by Mr. White) proposed -

That the Standing Orders be suspended to enable the remaining stage to be passed without delay.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

Mr. Speaker–

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mb. Speaker- Hon. G. J. Bell.) Ayes . . . . . . 28

10

AYES: 0

NOES: 18

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the Standing Orders be suspended to enable the remaining stage to be passed without delay - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. j. Bell.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 18

Majority . . 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Standing Orders suspended.

Thirdreading.

Motion by (Mr. White) proposed -

That the bill be now read a third time.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

– This is an opportunity to protest-

Motion (by Mr. White) put -

That the question be now put.

The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon.g. J. Bell.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 18

Majority…… 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the bill be now read a third time - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. j. Bell.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 18

Majority…… 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a third time. Sitting suspended from. 5.19 a.m. till IS noon.

page 1138

KING’S JUBILEE

Joint Address. Mr. SPEAKER (Hoa. G. J. Bell).I have to inform the House that in company with the President of the Senate, I waited on His Excellency the GovernorGeneral and handed to him the Joint Address to His Majesty the King on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of his accession to the throne. I received the following reply from His Excellency: -

Mr. President and Mr. Speaker,

This is not an ordinary occasion. In the special circumstances, seeing that the Prime Minister is at this moment in England in connexion with the King’s Jubilee and representing the Government, the Parliament and the people of the Commonwealth, I suggest that it would be a mo-re solemn and significant way of presenting the Address of Parliament to His Majesty if the Prime Minister handed it to the King himself.

If, on behalf of the Parliament, you agree to that course, I have no hesitation in supporting it, and in that event would leave the transmission of the Address to the Prime Minister in your hands.

Isaac A. Isaacs,

Governor-General

Government House, Canberra. 10th April, 1935

Assuming that the suggestion of His Excellency that the Prime Minister should present the Address to His Majesty would Beet with the concurrence of honorable members, I agreed to the proposal and thanked His Excellency for the suggestion.

page 1138

NEWCASTLE BY-ELECTION

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).I have to inform the House that I in tend to issue a writ on Tuesday, the 7 th May next for the election of a member to serve for the electoral division of Newcastle, in the State of New South Wales, in the place of the Honorable David Watkins, deceased. The dates in connexion with the election will be fixed as follows - Date of issue of writ, Tuesday, 7th May; date of nomination, Friday, 17th May; date of polling, Saturday, 1st J une ; date of return of writ, on or before Monday, 24th June.

page 1138

QUESTION

PORT AUGUSTA TO RED HILL

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) proposed -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of moneys be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to amend the Port Augusta to Red Hill Railway Act 1930.

Mr PRICE:
Boothby

.- Is this bill to be disposed of at this late stage of the session? Before the measure is further proceeded with, I desire to know whether the Government has reached any agreement with the South Australian Government regarding the proposal.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Acting Prime Minister · Cowper · CP

.-Through the courtesy of the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford), who secured the adjournment of the debate on the second reading of the bill, I hope to have an opportunity to make a statement regarding the negotiations that have taken place between the South Australian Government and the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson) on’ this subject.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported and - by leave - adopted.

Second Reading.

Debate resumed from the 14th March (vide page 80) on motion by Mr. Paterson.

That the bill be now read a second time.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Acting Prime- Minister · Cowper · CP

– Since the introduction of this measure, a conference has taken place between the Acting Premier of South Australia (Mr. Ritchie), the Minister for Railways in that State (Mr. Hudd), and the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Paterson), and as the last named cannot again address the House on this bill “without closing the debate, I desire at this stage to outline to honorable members the attitude which the Government proposes to adopt. The measure provides for the construction by the Commonwealth of a standard-gauge railway between Port Augusta and Red Hill in accordance with the provisions of the agreement made between the Commonwealth and South Australia in 1925 and ratified by both parliaments the following year. The present route from Port Augusta to Adelaide is circuitous, with steep grades and sharp curves. Practically a round of the clock is occupied in traversing it, though the direct distance over level country is rather less than that between Albury and Melbourne, which Victorian trains cover to-day in four and a half hours. A State railway on the 5 ft. 3 in. gauge already traverses more than half the distance between Adelaide and Port Augusta on the direct route, and under the agreement referred to the Commonwealth has the right to have a third rail laid on this track, and to build a new standard-gauge line across the remaining gap of 82 miles, so thai Trane-Australian sleeper trains can run right into Adelaide. The time saved in this way, together with adjustments to the “Western Australian time table and a speeding up on the Trans-Australian line, would enable a whole day to be saved in travelling between “Western Australia and the eastern States. The agreement also contemplates the laying down of a third rail, at South Australia’s expense, on the proposed new standard track from Red Hill northward as far as Port Pirie, to enable the State to conduct its Port Pirie-Adelaide traffic by the direct new route. “While prepared to carry out the agreement in its entirety, the Commonwealth had suggested to .South Australia as an alternative, and without prejudice, that the Commonwealth should purchase the 5 ft. 3 in. line between Salisbury and Red Hill, convert it to the standard gauge, and confine the third rail provision to the thirteen miles between Adelaide and Salisbury instead of the 128 miles from Adelaide to Port Pirie.

The South Australian Government was not prepared to sell the Salisbury to Red Hill line to the Commonwealth for conversion. Nor was it willing to co-operate in carrying out the agreement made with the Commonwealth.

This great step forward in the improvement of east-west communication is inevitable, and the present time is most opportune to carry out the work for two reasons - money can be obtained for the proposal at low rates of interest, and employment for many hundreds of men would be found in South Australia for the next two years. Although the Government has the best possible grounds for the belief that the agreement with South Australia is as valid now as on the date of its ratification, we naturally desire to secure the willing co-operation of the State rather than its reluctant acceptance of a legal agreement, and in view of South Australia’s present opposition to the third rail provision, and its disinclination to accept our proposal to purchase the Salisbury to Red Hill line, we are prepared to offer what we hope will satisfactorily terminate the present disagreement on the whole matter.

We propose that the Commonwealth should extend its standard-gauge TransAustralian line from Port Augusta southwards as far as Port Pirie only, a distance of about 56 miles, and that South Australia should extend the 5 ft. 3 in. railway, ending to-day at Red Hill, northwards as far as Port Pirie, a distance of approximately 26 miles, making Port Pirie the break-of -gauge station. If the portion of the Melbourne-Adelaide train reserved for Western Australian passengers were run through to Port Pirie, passengers could then transfer to the Commonwealth transcontinental line train there instead of at Port Augusta, and on the eastward journey passengers, on leaving the transcontinental line train at Port Pirie, would step into the Melbourne train. By extending the 5 ft. 3 in. line from Red Hill to Port Pirie, South Australia would provide itself with a direct line on one gauge between Port Pirie and Adelaide.

A saving of at- least £450,000 would be made in the total expenditure by this proposal, and although it would not permit of transcontinental line trains running into Adelaide, the same great saving of time could be secured..

The Commonwealth Government earnestly hopes that the South Australian Government will accept this modified proposal, for the twofold purpose of transforming the worst section of the east-west line into one of the best, and for the provision of employment during the coming winter. In order that no time may be lost in this regard, the Commonwealth proposes to commence the construction of the new line from the Port Augusta end, under the authority of the existing agreement. Meanwhile we shall be prepared to enter into a new agreement with South Australia on the lines suggested, and even though some months must elapse before such a new agreement amending the present agreement could be ratified, South Australia would still have ample time to complete the small section of the line between Red Hill and Port Pirie by the time the Commonwealth reached the latter point. To save delay and avoid disappointment to men looking for employment, I ask the House to pass the bill in its present form, accepting the assurance of the Government of its willingness promptly. to amend both the bill anc the agreement on the lines indicated, if we can secure the co-operation of the South Australian Government.

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Maribyrnong

– The speech of the Minister in charge of the bill (Mr. Paterson), coupled with the remarks this afternoon of the right honorable the Acting Prime Minister (Dr. Earle Page), should remove from the minds of honorable members any doubt they have had as to the right of the Commonwealth to go on with this work, which may be described as the second step in connexion with the proposals for the standardization of the railway gauges of Australia. I am not quite clear whether the Government has now submitted an alternative proposal, in order to meet the arguments advanced on behalf of the South Australian Government, or whether it definitely intends to adopt the new scheme.

Mr Paterson:

– It is an alternative proposal.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– I regret that it does not embrace a much larger scheme for the complete standardization of railway gauges, so that there might be a trunk line of standard gauge from Sydney to Perth, the greatest assetproducing work that could be contemplated by the Commonwealth and State governments, and another step towards providing a national system of railways for Australia. This would need to be followed by further standardization proposals, if the government railways of this country are not to be completely sacrificed in the interests of private enterprise.

This great scheme should be supported by all who regard our transportation problems through Australian spectacles. The position in which the trans-Australian railway is left at the present time is glaringly unfair, and unless the position is improved it will be almost hopeless. The original intention, undoubtedly, was to provide fluid or unchecked connexion between the Trans-Australian line and all the State railway systems; but this plan has been left in mid air. The line begins at a minor port in South Australia and ends nearly 400 miles from the main port of Western Australia. At neither end of the line have the locomotives and rollingstock any fluid or unchecked connexion with the State capital, and in each case the people making the through journey have to suffer the inconvenience and delay occasioned by a break of gauge.

The passing of this measure will enable both portions of the agreement embodied in the South Australian Act No. 1725 and the Commonwealth Act No. 2, both of February, 1926, to be implemented. I hope that no deviation will be made from that agreement merely to satisfy particular local interests. I should like the final agreement to be reached on the original basis, by the South Australian Government building the 26 miles of line necessary to connect the proposed Rod Hill to Port Augusta line with Port Pirie, at the same time maintaining the through line from Adelaides to Port Augusta via Red Hill. I do not claim to have an intimate knowledge of this part of South Australia, but I have been over, the route on one or two occasions, and it seems to me the original plan is more sensible and more likely to give satisfactory service.

In September, 1925, an honorable agreement was entered into between the Commonwealth and South Australia. This agreement, amongst other things, provided -

  1. For the building of a railway to Alice Springs, to be paid for by the Commonwealth. (i>) For the building of a railway from Port Augusta to Red Hill, and providing a third rail on the existing railway between Red Hill and Adelaide, so as to permit of 4-ft. 8i-in. gauge trains running through from Port Augusta to the main Adelaide Railway Station. These works, like the railway to Alice Springs, were to be paid for by the Commonwealth.
  2. For providing a third rail on the line of railway between Red Hill and a point near Port Pirie so as to permit of 5-ft. 3-in. trains running from Adelaide to a point near Port Pirie. This work alone was to bo at the cost of South Australia.

In due time, the railway was built to Alice Springs, and it has been operating now for some years. Evidently what South Australia required, when the agreement was signed in 1915, was a line to Alice Springs at , the expense of the Common wealth, and when the State got the railway to that point, it lost all interest in the remainder of the agreement. The building of the line to Alice Springs, however, was only a portion of the agreement; and the Commonwealth having fulfilled its obligations so far as that line is concerned, has been endeavouring for a considerable time to cany out the whole of the agreement and put in hand the construction of the railway from Port Augusta to Bed Hill, and provide the third rail between Bed Hill and Adelaide. But, for some strange reason, the Government of South Australia is now seeking to prevent the Commonwealth Government from carry- ing out the works covered by the agreement which was signed in 1925 and is still in existence. One wonders what the attitude of the South Australian Govern.ment would have been had the Commonwealth refused to build the railway to Alice Springs. The Commonwealth would have been accused of a breach of the agreement, and protests would have been heard thoughout the length and breadth of South Australia. The Commonwealth, however, honoured its obligations and built the line, although it has been proved a financial burden.

The railway to Alice Springs was opened in August, 1929, and since that time the losses on the Central Australia railway, according to the annual reports of the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, have amounted to about £1,250,000. If we check up the losses on the Central Australia railway since it was opened to Alice Springs about five years ago, and compare them with the losses on the railway when it was opened only as far as Oodnadatta, we shall find that, interest and all other charges considered, since the opening of the line to Alice Springs there has been a loss of about £600,000 greater than the loss during the corresponding period prior to the opening of that railway. Since January, 1911, when the Commonwealth Government took over the responsibility for this railway, the losses in working and the interest charges have amounted to over £3,500,000.

South Australia was quite agreeable that the Commonwealth should perform that part of the agreement extending the railway to Alice Springs, but when the Commonwealth seeks to observe the other part of the agreement by extending the line from Port Augusta to Red Hill, and making the necessary provision for a connexion with Adelaide, there is an outcry in South Australia. The extension of the Trans-Australian railway from Port Augusta to Adelaide is an absolute necessity. The line was built at very great cost, and cannot be left suspended in mid-air, as it were, between two narrow-gauge systems, one on the east and one on the west. Having perused the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner’s annual reports, I find that, year after year, he has urged and entreated that this work should be carried out. In his report for the year ended the 30th June, 1934, he summed up crisply in eight points why these railway works should be put in hand. The report states, at pages 13 and 14 -

So seriously do I view the need for the extension of the trans-Australian railway by the building of the railway from Port Augusta to Red Hill (as authorized by the Port Augusta-Red Hill Railway Act 1930) and the provision of standard 4-ft. 84-in. gauge connexion between Red Hill and Adelaide, that I must again urge this work be undertaken.

From time to time I have stressed the need for this work, and I cannot do better than repeat what I wrote in one of my recent annual reports -

The business of the trans-Australian railway continues to be hampered by the existence of a very indirect route from Port Augusta to Adelaide, which involves two changes of gauge - one at Port Augusta from the 4-ft. 8±-in. trans-Australian railway to the 3-ft..6-in. line from Port Augusta to Terowie, and the other at Terowie from the 3-ft. 0-in. State line to the 5-ft. 3-in. State railway, and vice versa. The good impression created with the passenger by the trans-Australian railway is often nullified by the slow and uncomfortable journey on the narrow-gauge connexion, and this frequently results in the passenger leaving the train at Port Augusta and motoring to Adelaide. These disadvantages would all be removed by the construction of the railway which has already been authorized by the Port Augusta-Red Hill Railway Act 1930, which was assented to on the 23rd December, 1930, and provides for the construction of a railway from Port Augusta to Red Hill (at an estimated cost of £735,000) as part of the agreement between the Commonwealth and the State of South Australia, dated 18th September, 1 925. It would be necessary to provide a third rail On the existing 5-ft. 3-in. line from Red Hill to Adelaide, at an estimated cost of £380,000, which also includes access to Adelaide station. “ Briefly stated, the construction of this railway would -

Provide a line 70 miles shorter than the existing route.

Enable the journey between Adelaide and Kalgoorlie to be reduced by about nine hours.

Save passengers the inconvenience involved by changing trains at Terowie and Port Augusta.

Afford the passengers more comfort and less expense.

Eliminate two handlings of mails and goods at Terowie and Port Augusta and the consequent expense and delay.

Enable the railways to quote cheaper rates and speedier transit for the increasing volume of goods traffic between the eastern States and Western Australia.

Permit of live-stock from the transAustralian railway being conveyed from the point of loading to the market in the same wagon, and this, combined with the speedier journey in more commodious vehicles over a shorter route, would ensure the live-stock reaching the market in first-class condition, and without being bruised. The time of journey from Port Augusta to Dry Creek would occupy from ten to twelve hours, as against the 25 hours which now elapse between the arrival of live-stock at Port Augusta and the arrival at Dry Creek.

Provide a line on which 85 per cent, more loading could be carried on each train from Port Augusta, and 54 per cent, on each train to Port Augusta. (This existing line via Terowie rises to 2,000 feet, whilst via Red Hill the highest point would be only 455 feet.) “ It is certain that, with lower wages and decreased cost of material, the Port AugustaRed Hill-Adelaide railway could now be constructed for much less than the estimate; and it is recommended that as soon as funds can be made available the construction of the railway be put in hand.”

The trans-Australian railway, constructed at very heavy cost (£7,987,210), can never give to the people the service it should give until the railway extensions referred to are provided.

That is a concise and complete summary of the position, which it would be very difficult to controvert. I respectfully submit that the House will not do its duty unless it passes this measure and promotes the endeavour of the Government to provide an avenue of employment in South Australia, in which the percentage of unemployed is the greatest of any State of the Commonwealth.

It is estimated by the Commonwealth that there will be a profit of over £5,000 per annum on the working of the railway after paying interest and working expenses. In view of the urgent necessity for the extension of the TransAustralian railway into Adelaide, the work should be put in hand without delay.

South Australia evidently considers that the building of this railway will rob of traffic the existing railway between Quorn and Terowie. That section may be affected ; but, when the traffic from the Trans-Australian railway is considered, it will be seen that the Quorn to Terowie section will not be any worse off than it was during the many years it was working prior to the opening of the Trans-Australian railway. Certainly the live stock from the Central Australian railway will go by the new route instead of the old, to the great advantage of stockowners in the saving of haulage distance, quicker transport, and lower freights. If, however, the railway between Quorn and Terowie were to lose this live-stock traffic, there would be an adjustment of the train service, and the working expenses over the section would be very materially reduced. As every railway man is aware, and as every stock-owner has reason to know, one of the disadvantages of railway transport is that stock are sadly knocked about, and their market value is considerably reduced, in the operation of shifting them from the trucks to the yards and back into the trucks. Whatever lass there might be in revenue would be largely made good by the reduction of working expenses. It may, of course, be necessary for South Australia to consider the advisability of extending its 5-ft. 3-in. gauge from Terowie to’ Quorn. It is claimed in some quarters that at one time the State undertook to make that conversion, and thus avoid the existing break of gauge, and at the same time provide a far better service. Being unacquainted with the merits of that claim, I cannot say whether the State is under an obligation in that respect; but that it is entirely a State matter, is shown by the statement of Mr. Webb, the Commissioner for the South Australian Bailways, who, giving evidence before the Commonwealth Public Works Committee in 1926, said -

Ultimately we propose to extend the broad gauge from Terowie to Quorn.

Evidently, therefore, that extension was in the mind of the Commissioner, and doubtless of the South Australian Government, also-.

The suggestion made from time to time, that the railways are a thing of the past and that expenditure should not he incurred upon new construction, comes, I respectfully suggest, from inspired sources, which would prefer the railways to remain losing propositions in a cold, commercial sense, so that private enterprise, with which they sympathize, might continue to increase its profits. To-day, railway services in many parts of the world are demonstrating, by the use of lighter and faster trains, and more comfortable passenger rolling-stock, that they are capable of undertaking rapid transit over long distances, and of continuing to be the principal transport agency of the people. An example of that is a recent performance on one of the English railway systems. The descrip- tion of it, which was published in the press within the last fortnight, mentioned a maximum speed of 108 miles an hour, and an average of 88 miles an hour for the full journey of hundreds of miles. Streamlined trains and air-conditioned passenger rolling-stock are regaining custom which had temporarily sought other means of transport. In the United States of America, steam-driven engines as well as other types are running at very high speeds. In one case, a journey of 3,258 miles is completed in 56 hours 55 minutes. At one stage of the journey a speed of 120 miles an hour is attained, and the average throughout is 57.2 miles an hour. For a distance of 519 mile* the average speed is 59.2 miles an hour, and on another section of 508 miles - probably mainly on descending gradients - the average is 84 miles an hour. That is accomplished by one of the latest diesel-engined trains built’ on streamlined principles. There is talk of similar trains being built in Australia. I could give numberless examples to combat the suggestion that railways are a thing of the past. On the contrary, all the indications point to the fact thai they are making headway. That is particularly the case with steam-driven trains which burn native instead of imported fuel - a very important factor which is deserving of consideration by both sides of the House when dealing with a problem of this kind.

The South Australian railways have suffered severely from the alleged rehabilitation scheme initiated by an American Commissioner, who sought to apply the latest American methods to entirely unsuitable Australian conditions. The State was loaded with the expense involved in a big-engine policy, which necessitated the expenditure of huge sums upon alterations to the permanent way and platforms, the widening of tunnels, the provision of heavier rails, and more substantial bridges, and almost a complete change of railway equipment, the full extent of which was hardly realized when the scheme was undertaken. As a railwayman who has had many years experience of practical train operation, I say that the big-engine policy developed within recent years, is entirely unsuitable to Australian conditions. The infrequency of the service, due to this policy, has made the railways very unpopular, particularly in. connexion with goods trains, and has bean t&e means of driving custom to motor transport. Those having goods to shift were not content to wait for a bi-weekly service, but sought prompter transport. The American practice- favours larger trains and fewer units; but that policy, while possibly suitable for long hauls through closely populated districts, has been tried in certain parts of Australia, and is not favoured. In my opinion it is not justified. The running of fewer trains over our long distances causes definite dissatisfaction with the railway service, and is detrimental to it. The adoption of that practice undoubtedly contributed to the establishment of motorcarrying companies and passenger bus services which now get the cream of the traffic. The latter are a very inferior substitute for the average railway carriage being definitely less comfortable. They also have the disadvantage of increasing the use of foreign fuel. The complete story would take far too long for me to tell in the time now at my disposal.

There can be no doubt, however, that the South Australian railways rehabilitation scheme, not only failed to rehabilitate the railways, but also influenced the mind of the people of that State adversely, which accounts, to some extent, if not altogether, for the opposition now being shown by some sections of the people there to the construction of the Port Augusta to Red Hill railway. I say “ some sections “ advisedly. A good deal of noise is being made about this proposal in South Australia, but I believe that the great majority of the people there would be pleased to see the line built. The saving of time that would be effected by the construction of this line has been advanced as one reason why it should be built, and it is without doubt an important consideration. The Minister in charge of the bill said, in his second-reading speech, that the distance from Albury to Melbourne, which is approximately the same distance as that from Port Augusta to Red Hill, is now being covered in from four to five hours.

Mr Paterson:

– That journey occupies from 7.30 a.m. to 12 noon.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– That is so. As a former employee on locomotives running from Benalla to Melbourne and from Benalla to Albury, I know that a considerable speeding up has occurred on that line. The express trains which used to reach Melbourne at 1 o’clock now arrive at noon. A similar saving of time has been effected in the journey from Melbourne to Albury. But the journey from Port Augusta to Adelaide and from Adelaide to Port Augusta on the existing lino takes from twelve to thirteen hours, which is approximately one hour more than was the case some years ago.

Mr Paterson:

– The time occupied is from eleven to twelve hours.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– I have included the time taken in transferring goods and passengers from one train to another at Port Augusta, for, obviously, if the break of gauge be eliminated, a considerable amount of that time will be saved, to the great convenience of the travelling public. When we consider also that a further saving of time will occur when the ballasting of the East-West railway lino is completed, we may safely estimate that a saving of 24 hours will be possible between Adelaide and Perth.

The ballasting of the East-West line will permit of higher speeds on practically the whole route, which will make the journey much more attractive than at present, and be to the good in every respect. I hope, however, that the Government will give full consideration to the effect of the construction of the Port Augusta to Red Hill line on the mon employed on that section of the railway service, for it would be unfair if their interests were overlooked. The opening of this line for traffic will have the effect of transferring to Commonwealth railways employees work now being done by railway employees of the South Australian Government. We should bear in mind, therefore, that the advantage accruing to the people who will use this line may involve disadvantages to the men employed on the existing line. I suggest that consideration should be given to the adoption of the system of payment of railway men on leng distance trains adopted on the railways of -Great Britain, Canada, New Zealand and the United States of America. In those countries the wagesof such men is determined on a mileagebasis. At present the 260 miles between

Port Augusta and Adelaide fall into three sections, in each of which work is provided in the preparation and stabling of engines and rolling stock every day that a train runs. The first section, between Port Augusta and Quorn, which is of 3 ft. 6 in. gauge, is operated by Commonwealth employees, whilst the second section, from Quorn to Terowie, also of 3 ft. 6in. gauge, and the third section, from Terowie to Adelaide, of 5 ft. 3 in. gauge, are worked by employees of the South Australian Government. When the Port Augusta to Red Hill route is in operation it should be possible to cover the distance of 18S miles in approximately 6 hours’ running time, which, with engine preparation and stabling time, should entitle the train men to payment for approximately one day. If, however, the payment were on the mileage basis operating in Victoria, and included engine preparation and stabling, the time occupied would be approximately thirteen hours. We have also to remember that the service between Port Augusta and Adelaide was reduced during the depression.

Mr Paterson:

– Probably when the now line is in operation it will be possible for us to revert to three trains a week each way instead of two, because of the additional business offering.

Mr DRAKEFORD:

– While that would be compensation in some respects, it would not compensate the South Australian employee for the extra speed of running. I ask leave to continue my remarks.

Leave granted ; debate adjourned.

page 1145

ALTERED HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) agreed to -

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until 2.30 p.m. this day.

House adjourned at 12.45 p.m. (Wednesd a.y

page 1145

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

University Medical Diplomas. Mr. Hughes- The information will be obtained and furnished as soon as possible, in answer to a question asked by the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) regarding the cost of obtaining university medical diplomas.

Tasmania n Shipping Services.

Royal Australian Air Force.

Torridon Research Station

Mr Blackburn:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

n asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Has the Commonwealth been asked to join with other dominions in financing the future wool research work at Torridon Research Station?
  2. If so, what action docs the Government propose to take?
Dr Earle Page:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows -

  1. Yes. The Commonwealth Government has already made a contribution of £1,000 to the Wool Industries Research Association at Torridon, Leeds, in respect of the financial vear 1934-35.
  2. See reply to No. 1.

Wireless Broadcasting : Station at Kalgoorlie

Mr Hunter:
CP

r. - The information is being obtained and will be furnished as soon as possible, in answer to questions asked by the honorable member for Kalgoorlie (Mr. A. Green) regarding the proposed national service broadcasting station at Kalgoorlie.

Norfolk Island: Exports to New Zealand

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

en asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that 14,878 cases oft bananas were exported from Norfolk Island to New. Zealand in 1931-32, and that the exports in 1933-34 were nil?
  2. Is it a fact that 1,164 cases of oranges were exported from Norfolk Island to New Zealand in 1931-32, and that the exports in 1933-34 were nil?
  3. Is it a fact that of the other five main items of export’ from this island, namely, mixed fruit, passion fruit (and pulp), kumeras, potatoes and vegetables there were exported 2,035 eases in 1931-32 and no exports to New Zealand in 1933-34?
  4. What were the reasons for the New Zealand Government’s obvious boycott of this produce last year?
  5. Is it because the Australian and New Zealand Governments failed to arrive at a trade agreement that this collapse has occurred in Norfolk Island trade?
Mr White:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : - 1, 2 and 3. Yes.

  1. In December, 1932, the New Zealand Government issued an embargo on Australian, including Norfolk Island, fruit and vegetables ; the embargo was effective from the end of January, 1933. No specific reason was given for the embargo so far as Norfolk Island is concerned. The Government of New Zealand lias been informed that Mediterranean fruit fly does not exist on the island.
  2. In his annual report for the year ended 1933-34, the Administrator stated : “ The loss of the New Zealand market for bananas, oranges and market garden produce lias affected the producers vitally, and the poor prices obtaining in Sydney for Norfolk Island bananas are barely sufficient to provide planters with the necessities of life.”

Western Australian Airways: Subsidy Payments

Mr Archdale Parkhill:
UAP

l. - On 8th April the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Drakeford) asked the following questions, upon notice -

  1. Whether any subsidy or other payment is being made by the Commonwealth Government to the Western Australian Airways Company at the present time for the air service between Adelaide and Perth; if not, on what date did the payments cease?
  2. Whatis the total amount paid by the Government to the Western Australian Airways Company to date?
  3. Does the Government contemplate making arrangements for further payments?
  4. If further payments are contemplated, can the Minister give an indication of the “basis on which the payments will be arranged?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable member as follows: -

  1. For the operation of the Perth -Adelaide air service, Western Australian Airways were paid, under a five years’ contract ending on 1st April, 1934, at the rate of £380 per trip, equalling approximately £39,000 per annum.

Since 2nd April, 1934, the service has continued to operate, but the only payment now received by the company is made by the PostmasterGeneral’s Department at the rate of 8s. per net pound of mails carried.

  1. For the operation of regular air services the following payments have been made to Western Australian Airways: -

3 and 4. Proposals submitted by Western Australian Airways are being examined, but I am unable to indicate what the decision is likely to be.

  1. J. White: Contract with Government.
Mr Paterson:
CP

– On the 4th April, the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) asked the following question, upon notice -

  1. Is a man named R. J. White carrying out a contract with the Commonwealth Government ?
  2. Is it a fact that sleeper-cutters whoare engaged in supplying 6 ft. 6 in. sleepers of box, woolly butt and ironbark to this contractor receive an amount of only 2s. 6d. each per sleeper from him?
  3. Will the Minister supply details of the contract with R. J. White?

I am “now in a position to advise him as follows : -

  1. R. J. White and Company (Sydney) are carrying out a contract with the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner.
  2. The price paid to cutters is not known. No deliveries have yet been effected. The Commonwealth Railways Commissioner has had no complaints from the sleeper-cutters.
  3. The contract provides for the delivery of 25,000 sleepers 6 ft. 6 in. x 8 in. x 4½ in. at 4s. 3½d. each, delivered to CommonwealthRailways in ship’s slings on railway trucks at Port Augusta. The contract was let on 24th December, 1934, and deliveries are due in full by 31st May, 1935.

The contract provides for delivery of arranged quantities of grey gum, tallowwood, white mahogany, grey box, woolly butt and ironbark.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 9 April 1935, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1935/19350409_reps_14_146/>.