House of Representatives
24 May 1932

13th Parliament · 1st Session



Mr. Speaker (Hon. G. H. Mackay) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.

page 1251

QUESTION

NATIONALITY OF WOMEN

Mr NAIRN:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Is the Minister for the Interior yet able to state what instruct tions the Government has given to the Australian delegates to the Ottawa Conference on the subject of women’s nationality!Which of the two Common wealth Ministers will dealwith this subject at the conference?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I anticipate that this matter will be considered by the Cabinet to-morrow. . At, the conference the views’ of the Commonwealth Government will probably be expressed by the leader of the delegation.

page 1251

QUESTION

FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY

Preference in Employment.

Mr BLAKELEY:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Rumours are current throughout the Federal Capital Territory that a large number of workers will be dismissed in order to make room for other persons whose positions have been abolished. In order to allay thefears of about 400 men who are concerned, I ask the Minister for the Interior to ‘ state the Government’s policy in this regard ?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– The amalgamation of some of the former departments in the new Department of the Interior has involved the displacement of between 30 and 40 officials. They include about nine or ten returned soldiers who, in accordance with the policy of the Government, are entitled to preferential treatment. The Government is endeavouring to find positions for all men whose services have been dispensed with, returned soldiers and others, in order to inflict as little hardship as possible. The possibilities of employment for the surplus men have been explored, but the matter is being dealt with on an equitable basis, and the 400 workers to whom the honorable member for Darling referred need have no apprehension.

page 1251

TASMANIAN COMMUNICATIONS

Mr.BELL. - I ask the PostmasterGeneral: (1) Is it a fact that an apparatus installed onvarious overseas wireless telephone circuits renders conversations unintelligible to unauthorized persons and so ensures complete secrecy of speech? (2) Do experts now consider that a continuous wireless telephone service between Tasmania and the mainland is practicable? ; (3) If money cannot be made available in the near future for the laying of a submarine telephone cable to Tasmania at a cost of £180,000, will the Postmaster-General again consider the proposal to establish wireless telephonic communication between that State and the mainland at an estimated cost of £20,000 ?

Mr FENTON:
Postmaster-General · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · UAP

– I understand that an apparatus of the character indicated is in use, by which conversations between (Australia and London can beguarded against interruption, and I shall inquire whether this invention is applicable to local telephone services. The subject of telephonic communication between Tasmania and the mainland by submarine cable or wireless is at present under the consideration of my department.

page 1262

QUESTION

CATTLE TICK

Dr EARLE PAGE:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minis ter for Health received from the Graziers Association of New South Wales, a letter pointing out the necessity for constructing dips along the main stock routes that lead from the tick infested areas in that State? If so, will money be made available by the Commonwealth for the protection of the herds that are at present clean ?

Mr MARR:
Minister for Health · PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Such a letter from the Graziers Association is now receiving consideration. I am to confer in Sydney on Thursday with interested parties in New South Wales and representatives of the State Department of Agriculture regarding the methods by which protection can be given to stock owners. The Commonwealth cannot make further moneys available for this purpose, but it is hoped that some arrangement may be made for the utilization of a portion of the unemployment relief grant in the construction of dips. That can be done, however, only with the co-operation of the State Government.

page 1262

QUESTION

TUBERCULOSIS

Spahlinger Treatment

Mr JAMES:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Health state whether any beneficial re sults have accrued to Australian sufferers from tuberculosis through the use of the Spahlinger treatment?

Mr MARR:
UAP

– The Commonwealth Government received from Mr. Spahlinger only the formula of his vaccine, which would take at least twelve months to prepare. Moreover the formula related only to tuberculosis in animals. The treatment of human beings has not been attempted, and until the vaccine is prepared no tests can be made.

page 1262

QUESTION

TOBACCO INDUSTRY

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– I have received the following telegram from the secretary of the Australian Tobacco Growers Association : -

Reported hundreds Australian tobacco- growers unable Bell any’ of their crop as result drastic reductions import duty. Urge Government restrict imports allow sale all local marketable leaf.

In view of the assurances given by the Minister for Trade and Customs that if necessary he would ration the imports of American leaf to ensure the sale of the whole of the Australian crop, will he take whatever action is necessary to that end before he leaves for Ottawa?

Mr GULLETT:
Minister for Trade and Customs · HENTY, VICTORIA · UAP

– The purchasing of the tobacco crop has scarcely commenced. For instance, the largest manufacturing company will only commence buying this week, apart from a few purchases already made in Queensland. Buying cannot be said to have begun in Victoria, where grading is still in progress. It is still too early to estimate how the agreement made between the Commonwealth and the manufacturers is operating, but if it be necessary,in order to keep the manufacturers up to their undertaking, the Government will not hesitate to place anembargo on imported tobacco.

page 1262

QUESTION

UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF IN CANBERRA

Mr JAMES:

– Will the unemployed persons in Canberra who are not on the departmental register be allowed to participate in the work to be undertaken with the relief grant allocated to this Territory ?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– A committee of heads of departments is considering how the money allocated- to Canberra can be expended to the best advantage. The resident unemployed on the departmental register; who are the responsibility of the Commonwealth,will receive first consideration. The travelling unemployed will be dealt with as they are in the various States, and in accordance with the practice that has been in operation for the last three years.

Mr James:

– Some of thesemen have been in the Territory for six months.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

-I shall investigate their circumstances.

page 1262

QUESTION

EMBARGO ON BROOM MILLET

Mr GARDNER:
ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is it correct, as has been rumoured, that the embargo on the importation of broom millet has been lifted?

Mr MARR:
UAP

– Under quarantine proclamation, the importation of broom millet was prohibited in 1925, principally because of the danger of introducing the European corn borer. It is not proposed, at present, to alter the existing regulation.

page 1253

QUESTION

BROADCASTING COMMISSION

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Since the personnel of the Broadcasting Commission, as recently announced, seems to be of a highly political colour, particularly in respect of two members of the board - Mrs. Couchman, President of the Victorian branch of the Australian Women’s National League, and Mr. Orchard, an exmember of this Parliament - I ask the Postmaster-General whether the appointments were made on the basis of ability, or as a reward for past political services?

Mr FENTON:
UAP

– In my opinion, and, I believe, in the opinion of the other members of the Government, the most suitable persons available have been appointed to the commission. I am sure that in the future broadcasting will be under splendid management.

Mr NAIRN:

– Will the PostmasterGeneral inform the House of the reasons which actuated the Government in making these appointments, and led it to exclude an outlying State from any representation whatever on the broadcasting commission ?

Mr FENTON:

– Quite a number of reasons actuate any body of persons when making appointments ; but I can assure the honorable member that in view of the number of applications and of the recommendations that were received, the Government has done the best that it could do in the circumstances. It would have given pleasure to the members of Cabinet had they been able to give representation on the board to the six States, but as only five persons were to be appointed, one State must have been left out. Other factors, such as the cost and loss of time in travelling over the vast distances of Australia, had to be considered. The Cabinet appointed the best commission available in the circumstances.

page 1253

QUESTION

UNEMPLOYED

DISTRIBUTION OF MILITARY CLOTHING.

Mr GANDER:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister representing the Minister for Defence considered the advisability of permitting local unemployed relief committees to distribute military clothing, in view of the fact that there seems to be some dissatisfaction in numerous centres because of the difficulty in obtaining clothing for the unemployed?

Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister · WILMOT, TASMANIA · UAP

– I shall bring the matter raised by the honorable member under the notice of the Minister for Defence.

page 1253

QUESTION

INCOME TAXATION

Dental Fees

Mr JENNINGS:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Assistant Treasurer, before issuing income tax assessments, consider the advisability of extending to dental fees the exemption applying to medical fees?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The honorable member has raised this question at the right time, because the budget for next year is now under consideration. His representations will be given careful thought when income taxationis being reviewed

page 1253

QUESTION

PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Sale of Blankets

Mr JAMES:

– Will you, Mr. Speaker, supply the names of the 23 individuals who, you stated, participated in the recent disposal of a number of blankets, mattresses, and pillow cases, the property of the Joint House Committee; and also the quantity purchased by each person? The rumour is in circulation that these blankets were, in some instances, worth 40s. a pair. Do you, Sir, consider that the prices stated by you were adequate for the articles concerned ?

Mr SPEAKER(Hon G H Mackay:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

– I have previously stated that the secretary of the Joint House Committee specially asked for the services ofthe furniture officer of the Works Department, who, I understand, is a capable officer, to place a value on the articles offered for sale. The values quoted by me were fixed by him. The honorable member for Hunter is welcome to see the list of purchasers. I think that I previously told the House that no individual had purchased more than two and a half pairs of blankets.

page 1253

QUESTION

CANBERRA HOTELS

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

– In view of the enormous expense of upkeep of the grounds of the various hotels in Canberra, will the Assistant Treasurer, during the recess, consider whether it would not be advisable to lease them rent-free, provided that the lessees take care of the hotel gardens?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The honorable member’s suggestion will receive consideration.

page 1254

QUESTION

DEFENCE PROMOTIONS

Mr RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Assistant Min ister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Whether it is a fact that promotions are still being made in the Staff Corps, whilst promotion is denied to members of the Australian Instructional Corps?
  2. If so, (a) why should preferential treatment be shown in the matter of promotions; and (b) is such action being taken by direction of the Minister or in accordance with a decision of the Military Board?
Mr FRANCIS:
Minister in charge of War Service Homes · MORETON, QUEENSLAND · UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Promotions are still being made in the Australian Staff Corps and in the Australian Instructional Corps.
  2. See answer to 1.

page 1254

QUESTION

NEW GUINEA

Murder of Whites

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. On what date did an administration patrol arrest the eight natives who are believed to have been involved in the murder of Mr. H. Baum?
  2. On what date did this patrol return and hand over the prisoners for trial ?
  3. Are the eight natives still in custody?
  4. When is it expected that these natives will be tried?
Mr LYONS:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. One on the 10th March, 1932; one on the 11th March, 1932; six on the 12th March, 1932.
  2. 18th March, 1932. 3 and 4.I am not in possession of this information, but will obtain and furnish it to the honorable member.

page 1254

QUESTION

WIRELESS BROADCASTING

Tasmanian Service - Patent Rights - Revenue from Licences - MaintenDaventry Hill, England. ance Expenditure - Station at

Mr GUY:
BASS, TASMANIA

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Is he in a position to make a statement to the House in connexion with his promise to sympathetically consider the request that arrangements be made whereby the 7LA broadcasting station will rebroadcast mainland A class stations’ programmes, thereby removing the grave disability under which the listeners in of Tasmania suffer?

Mr FENTON:
UAP

– It is proposed to discuss the subject with the commission.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

What payments for wireless patent rights does the New Zealand Government pay to Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited on each listener-in licence?

Mr FENTON:

– The department has no official information regarding payments to Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited for wireless patent rights by the New Zealand Government.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. Has anything been done to investigate the wireless patent rights held by the Amalgamated Wireless Company, and upon the use of which they are paid 3s. on every listener-in fee?
  2. Does this agreement between the Government and the Amalgamated Wireless Company expire this year; if so, will early steps be taken by the Government in the direction indicated?
Mr FENTON:

– The portion of the agreement relating to patent rights expires in November, 1932, and investigations have been undertaken, but I am not in a position to make a statement at the moment.

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. When will the new wireless station be completed at Daventry Hill, England, and be ready for Empire broadcasting?
  2. Has he any information as to whether any tests have yet been made?
Mr FENTON:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Official information is not available, bat it is anticipated that the service will fee available about the end of the year.
  2. So far as is known, no tests have been made from the new station.
Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. What is the total amount received by the Government as its share of broadcasting listeners’ licences during the last three years?
  2. How has this money been expended ?
  3. What sum has been received during the last three years by the Government from other broadcasting licences?
  4. How has this money been expended?
  5. What sum has been expended by the Government during the last three years in maintenance of A class broadcasting stations ?
Mr FENTON:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. During the period 1st July, 1929, to 31st March, 1932, the total amount received by the Government, as its share of broadcast listeners’ licence-fees, was £442,370.
  2. This money was paid into Consolidated Revenue.
  3. £2,145.
  4. See answer to No. 2.
  5. 1929-30, £28,000; 1930-31, £48,200.

figures are only available for the first six months of 1931-32, the total for this period being £24,000. .

page 1255

QUESTION

AUSTRALASIAN PERFORMING RIGHT ASSOCIATION

Mr GUY:

asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that largely owing to the demands of the Australasian Performing Eight Association, a B class broadcasting station has been compelled to suspend the Sunday church services and the whole of Sunday’s programme ?
  2. Has any decision been reached by the Acting Attorney-General in connexion with his promise that he would sympathetically consider the request for a full and complete public inquiry into the methods and activities of the Australasian Performing Right Association?
  3. If no decision has yet been reached, can the Minister hasten the consideration of the matter?
Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. I have no information. 2 and 3. Certain preliminary inquiries are being made, and, on their completion, the question of enlargingthescope of the investigation will be considered. Every effort will be made to expeditea decision in the matter.
Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice -

  1. In view of the recent deputation to the Acting Attorney-General (Senator the Honorable A. J. McLachlan) expressing dissatisfaction with the charges of the Australasian Performing Right Association, have any investigations yet been made into the matter?
  2. If not, when is the request of the deputation likely to be proceeded with?
Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– Certain preliminary inquiries are being made, and on their completion the question of enlarging the scope of the investigation will be considered. Every effort will be made to expedite a decision in the matter.

page 1255

QUESTION

SUGAR

Mr GUY:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

When may the honorable member for Bass expect a reply to the question addressed to the Minister on the 17th March last, in which he asked if the Colonial Sugar Refining Company were committing a breach of the sugar agreement by charging wharfage to the Launceston grocers when an allowance is made to that company by the Queensland Government or Sugar Board, for the same purpose?

Mr GULLETT:
UAP

– As promised in my reply on the 17th March to the honorable member, I directed that an investigation be made into the allegations in question. This involved inquiries in Sydney and Launceston. The reports have just arrived in Canberra, and I hope to write to the honorable member on the subject within a few days.

page 1255

QUESTION

FRANCE

Budgets

Dr MALONEY:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. Can he inform the House whether the French Republic has balanced its budgets during the last five years?
  2. If the budgets have not been balanced, what was the deficit in each year?
Mr LYONS:
UAP

– The information is being obtained, and will be furnished as soon as possible.

page 1255

QUESTION

WAR DEBTS

Financing of Canadian and South African Forces

Mr LYONS:
UAP

– Information is being obtained, and will be furnished as soon as possible in reply to questions asked by the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) in regard to financing the cost of the participation of Canada and South Africa in the war.

page 1255

QUESTION

BRITISH PREFERENCE

Dr MALONEY:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

How much money would be saved yearly by his department if British preference were abolished?

Mr GULLETT:
UAP

– It is impossible to say, but it may be mentioned that if the general tariff had operated on goods imported from the United Kingdom during the year ended 30th June, 1931, £2,775,108 additional duty would have been collected.

page 1256

QUESTION

WAR DEBT

Dr MALONEY:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

How much money would be saved yearly if the interest rate for the war loan of £82,000,000, owing to Great Britain for the upkeep of the Australian Army, were reduced to 3 per cent., the rate charged by the United. States of America to Great Britain?

Mr LYONS:
UAP

– If the present rate of interest payable by Australia to the British Government on war debt were reduced to 3 per cent., the annual saving would be £1,528,571. Under the war debt agreement between Great Britain and the United States of America, the rate of interest is now 3 per cent., but the agreement provides for that rate being increased to 31/2percent.asfromthe16th December, 1932.

page 1256

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK

Erection of Premises at Rockhampton.

Mr FORDE:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

  1. Who is the successful contractor for the eretion of the Commonwealth Bankat Rockhampton ?
  2. What is thetotal amount of the contract?
  3. Why was the Rockhampton firm not given the sub-contract for joinery work?
  4. In view of the number of unemployed joiners at Rockhampton, will the Minister endeavour to have the sub-contract for joinery work let to a local firm ?
Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Ernest Hugh Fletcher.
  2. £7,940.

3 Because the Rockhampton firm had not any experience in the high class of work required by the Commonwealth Bank anthorities, and had not any seasoned walnut timber in stock.

  1. No action can be taken as the sub-contract hasbeen let to an experienced firm which has furnished the necessary guarantees regarding the material required.

page 1256

QUESTION

IMPERIAL ECONOMIC CONFERENCE

Publicity Officer

Mr JAMES:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Is it a fact that Mr. J. A. Alexander, of the Melbourne Herald, is to accompany the Ottawa delegation in the capacity of publicity officer, and that half his expenses are to be paid by the Commonwealth Government?

Mr LYONS:
UAP

– The answers to both parts of the honorable member’s question are in the negative.

page 1256

QUESTION

NEW GUINEA GOLD PRODUCTION

Mr LYONS:
UAP

– On the 20th May, the honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Rosevear) asked me the following questions, upon notice: -

  1. What is the value of the gold production of New Guinea since it became a mandated territory ?
  2. What is the value of gold exported from New Guinea since it became a mandated territory, showing the amount exported to each country separately?
  3. What is the total cost of the administration of this territory to the Commonwealth since the Commonwealth was given the mandate?

I am now in a position to furnish the following replies to the honorable member’s questions: - 1 and 2. Gold of the value of £1,149,333 has been produced in New Guinea from 9th May, 1921, to 31st March, 1932. During that period, gold of the value of £1,148,703 has been exported from the territory, all of which has been sent to Australia.

  1. Payments, other than loans, have been made by the Commonwealth Government in respect of the administration of New Guinea from9th May, 1921, to 30th June, 1931, as follow : -

    1. grants totalling £65,000, to be utilized for the welfare of the natives;
    2. bounties under the Papua and New Guinea Bounties Act 1920, £3,817:
    3. ) miscellaneous expenditure totalling £8,584;
    4. portion of the annual subsidy for the maintenance of shipping services to several territories in the Pacific, including the Territory of New Guinea, estimated at about £160,000.

page 1256

PAPERS

The following papers were presented: -

Debts. Inter-Governmental - Suspension of Payment for One Year - Protocol in relation to Bulgaria, dated 21st January, 1932.

Canberra University College - Report of Council for 1931.

page 1256

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1932-33

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In Committee of Supply (Consideration of Governor-General’s message).

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I move -

That there be granted to His Majesty for or towards defraying the services of the year 1932-33 a sum not exceeding £3,921,845.

A bill will be based on the resolution of the committee to provide two months’ Supply from the end of the present financial year, the 30th June next. It is not proposed that Parliament should adjourn for the whole of July and August, the intention being to bring down the budget in July, if possible. But if Supply obtained now were for one month only, it would be necessary to bring down another Supply Bill immediately on the reassembling of the House, and that might delay the consideration of the budget.

The provisions of the bill have been framed in the ordinary way. When Supply is asked for prior to the Government bringing down its financial proposals for the year, the practice is to base the sum asked for on the appropriation for the previous year. In this case, we ask for a sum which is one-sixth of that appropriated for the financial year 1931- 32. The amount of Supply which is now being asked for is £2,721,845. No greater sum will be expended, although, when the budget proposals have been introduced, it may be that the expenditure for the year will be less.

The items of £200,000 for refunds of revenue, and £1,000,000 for the Treasurer’s advance, may need some explanation. Refunds of revenue have to be made in cases in which taxpayers and others are entitled to get back money that they have paid, and an appropriation by way of an advance to the Treasurer is always made to enable him to meet certain expenditure so that the services of government can be carried on until the annual appropriation has been made by the Parliament. The provisions of this measure are those ordinarily found in a Supply Bill, but if honorable members wish for information regarding any items, it can be given in committee on the bill.

This appears to be an appropriate occasion for giving to the committee an indication of the general financial position of the Commonwealth. Last year it was estimated that there would be a deficit of £5.176,000 in the accounts of the year 1931-32, on the proposals in the last budget which were approved by the Parliament. When that budget was introduced, the granting of a moratorium with respect to war debts, and the suspension of reparations payments were under consideration, but as no final decision in the matter had then been made, provision for the interest payments with respect to war debts had to be included in the Estimates submitted to thisHouse. Happily, shortly after the Appropriation Bill was passed, the Hoever moratorium came into operation, and theeffect upon the Commonwealth financee was the reduction of our expenditure by £4,028,000. That is the net figure, obtained by deducting from the war debt interest payable the reparation paymentsof £800,000 per annum which we had been receiving from Germany. Consequently, the estimated deficit of £5,176,000 was reduced to £1,148,000, which became the substituted Commonwealth deficit under the Premiers plan. I do not intend to give the estimate for each individual item, but I shall indicate to the committee the total anticipated falling off of revenue, and the probable expenditure in broad outline. More than ten months of the present financial year have now passed, and it is thought that the receipts from customs and excise, and from the sales tax, will be less than was estimated in the last budget. The decreases, though substantial, are not staggering. There will also be a decrease in the revenue received from the Post Office, and from the Commonwealth railways. On the other hand, there will be an increase in income tax, brought about mainly by collections on assessments. for years prior to the present year. There will be other slight increases in revenue, but the genera] effect of the decreases and increases is that there will probably be approximately a gain in revenue to the extent of £1,000,000, against which has to be set off increases in expenditure. There is every indication that expenditure will be greater in several directions than the amounts appropriated. So far as controllable expenditure is concerned, there will be no increase, and the items of departmental expenditure will not be exceeded. But £250,000 more than was provided for has been spent on the relief of unemployment. I think that the members of the committee will agree as to the necessity for that disbursement. There will also be an increase in the expenditure on .old-age pensions and war pensions. The increase in the expenditure on invalid and old-age pensions is duc in considerable measure to the fact that, because of the depression, many old persons have found it necessary’ to take advantage of the pension who in more prosperous times would have remained independent of government assistance.

An increase in the road grant to the States has been caused automatically by the operation of the act under which that grant is made. As honorable members axe no doubt aware, an amount equivalent to the customs duty of 2£d. and the excise duty of lid. per gallon collected on petrol was substituted for the annual grant of £2,000,000 by the Commonwealth to the States. The estimate of the amount that would be payable under that arrangement has been substantially exceeded, because the imports of petrol are greater than was anticipated when the budget was introduced.

Dr Earle Page:

– What is the amount of the increase?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The estimate was £1,4/00,000, but present indications are that the payment will amount to about £1,800,000.

The various increases in expenditure that I have indicated, plus a certain increase in sinking fund payments, make a probable total increase of about £1,000,000. Balancing that against the increase in revenue of about the same amount there is every prospect that at the end of the year the Commonwealth’s position will be as forecast in the financial statement of last year - that is, we shall not exceed the deficit allowed under the Premiers plan. If anything, our expenditure will be slightly under that provided for under the plan. I have not given detailed figures because, as every”one accustomed to deal with Treasury matters is aware, an estimate of the income tax receipts for the last months of the financial year cannot be made confidently; but, broadly speaking, it is likely that the position contemplated under the Premiers plan will almost certainly be realized.

Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra

.- This is a Supply Bill to carry on the ordinary services of government for two months. No new matters arise out of it for discussion, and I take it that the general financial position can be more appropriately considered when the next budget is brought down, which, I presume, will be early in the new financial year. Therefore, I do not intend to delay the committee at this stage, beyond asking for an assurance from the Acting Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) that during the forthcoming Parliamentary recess the Government will, within the two months for which Supply has been granted, devote itself to the formulation of a definite plan for the permanent relief of unemployment. It is admitted on all sides that the sum of £1,800,000 already granted for that purpose is but an instalment. I have estimated that it will be necessary to provide at least £1,000,000 a month, and a plan on that basis was formulated last year by my Government when we introduced the fiduciary currency legislation. The Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) stated that the grant of £1,800,000 was intended to meet the immediate needs of the unemployed during the winter months. I understand that a conference between the Commonwealth and the States will be held to consider the whole budgetary position, and I take it that on that occasion the fullest consideration will be given to the unemployment problem, because relief on a permanent basis is essential.

It is true that the introduction of a Supply Bill opens up a number of avenues for discussion, but after all, in debating this measure we should be merely anticipating the discussion that will occur on the new budget. It is reassuring to know that the financial forecast made by the last Government is likely to be realized, and that the methods it adopted for the rehabilitation of the finances are proving practicable, since the Commonwealth expenditure is being kept well within the limits permitted under the Premiers plan. Evidently the Treasury officials and the departments generally have been keeping a watchful eye on the situation. I hope that all future forecasts will be as accurate and successful a3 the last has proved to be. In conclusion, I ‘ repeat my request that during recess the Government will give the closest possible attention to the unemployment problem and take definite action regarding it.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

– I congratulate the Government on being able to produce a budget which approximates the estimates prepared in accordance with the Premiers plan, and I hope that the various State Governments will also be able to bring their budgets into line. I am particularly pleased to learn that the Federal Aid Roads grant is to be increased by £400,000 over the amount first estimated. This will provide relief for unemployed in country districts, and there is no more useful way of spending such money than in improving access to country districts, thus facilitating production and cheapening costs.

I should like to have heard from the Government some announcement of the procedure to be followed at the Imperial Economic Conference at Ottawa. I recognize that it might not be wise for the Government to make a comprehensive statement on this matter, but I cannot help expressing my regret that efforts have not been made to encourage, to a greater degree than has been done, the representation of various commercial interests at the conference. I know that five representatives have been appointed; one from the manufacturing industries, two from the two primary industries - meat and butter; a fourth to represent Labour; and a fifth to represent general commercial interests. I had hoped that there would be a stronger business representation. If the discussions at Ottawa lead to the granting of certain tariff concessions, it would be wise to have the agreement arrived at concurred in by the representatives of as many Australian interests as possible. If this happened the arrangement would receive general endorsement in Australia. It would be a calamity if concessions were granted by Great Britain to Australian industries, in return for consideration in regard to certain matters in which that country is interested, and commercial interests in this country declined to give effect to the Australian side of the understanding. If that were to happen, the concessions would probably lapse. I believe that, at the Ottawa Conference, we might take the first step towards the formation of a comprehensive plan of Empire development which, if carried out, would do more to advance the interests of every part of the Empire than anything yet achieved, besides helping to lift the world out of the existing depression. It is important that as many contacts as possible should be established between the representatives of big business interests in the various parts of the Empire. The problem of the future economic relations between the various parts of the Empire is one that governments of themselves cannot solve ; all they can do is to ratify agreements arrived at between the representatives of business interests. If those representatives are brought together at a conference such as is to be held at Ottawa, a favorable atmosphere can be created for the making of trade agreements. A great opportunity presents itself atthis conference for taking an important step towards the rationalization of industry throughout the Empire. That this can be achieved without any marked change in tariffs has been proved by what has taken place recently between Canada and Great Britain in connexion with two important industries. Major Colville, speaking in the House of Commons two or three months ago, stated that, as a result of a working arrangement between Canadian and British iron and steel interests, the percentage of British steel used in Canada had increased from 3 per cent. in 1928, to 25 per cent. in 1931. At the present time, negotiations are in progress between the representatives of the leather industry in the two countries. On 27 th February, the London Times stated, in a message from Canada, that the tanners were prepared to divide the leather industry with Britain. They urged their association to analyse the position so as to define the limit of concession which could be granted for the purpose of establishing an Empire-wide trade in leather.

Mr Gregory:

– That can be done when prices in the two countries are comparable. Here prices are four times greater than in Britain.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– We should have representatives at Ottawa to meet the trade representatives of other countries in order to compare costs and prices. A rational arrangement might be arrived at, not only in regard to primary industries, but in regard to secondary industries as well. If we could induce the dominions, which supply so large a portion of Great Britain’s foodstuffs, to make a joint request for concessions, we should have a sound case to work on. Australia herself cannot supply all the meat Britain requires, but Australia, New Zealand and South Africa could probably supply all the mutton and lamb, and a great deal of the beef which Britain consumes. Much the same thing applies to butter. In regard to secondary industries, it should be possible to enter into an arrangement that would ensure maximum production at the cheapest rate in each section of the Empire. Thus the Empire would present a united front to foreign competition, and would not only supply its own market, but would be able to compete in foreign markets as well. If Empire-wide co-operation on this scale could be achieved, the re-arrangement of tariffs would become comparatively simple, because the distrust and resentment which is now too often associated with tariff making would be removed.

I am disappointed that the financial statement placed before us contains no reference to the holding of referendums in accordance with the policy announced by the Prime Minister and by myself before the last elections. In order to bring about a reduction in the cost of government, and of production generally, it was arranged that referendums should be held to enable a federal tribunal to determine the minimum basic wage and maximum standard hours throughout Australia. It was also decided that a referendum should be held to amend the Constitution so as to allow the people of any State, regardless of the inactivity of their government, to partition that State if they thought fit. The Commonwealth was also to seek power to deport from Australia foreign agitators disturbing the public peace.

I believe that we shall not be able to reduce costs of production, or obtain harmony in industry, until we have a uniform basic wage throughout Australia. Even Mr. Lang, when speaking at the Premiers conference in February last, said that he was wholeheartedly in favour of a uniform basic wage, because he re garded the present system of varying rates as one of the prime causes of industrial unrest. If Parliament rises for several months as has been suggested, much valuable time will be lost before these proposals can be put into effect. No provision has been made in the Supply Bill to defray the cost of referendums. I observe that the Treasurer’s advance amounts to £1,000,000, some of which, no doubt, could be spen t in taking referendums, so that I am not entirely without hope that the Government may yet change its mind in regard to these matters. I impress on the Government the urgent need for action. Costs of production and of government must be reduced,and the method agreed upon before the elections is the best way of bringing it about.

Mr JAMES:
Hunter

.- I am disappointed that no provision is made in this Supply Bill for the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to probe further into the possibilities of extracting oil from coal. On many occasions I have ventilated the subject in this House. Because of its geographical situation Australia relies wholly on imported oil fuels, and, should we be involved in hostilities, ours would be an unenviable position. I have many times directed attention to the splendid research and practical work that has been done by Messrs. Lyons Brothers. Both the Scullin Government and the New South Wales State Government have obtained reports upon those activities, and I quote the following extract from the report of Dr. Rivett, who acted on behalf of the Government. It states -

  1. The outstanding factor was the special nature of Maitland (40 per cent. volatile) coal which is said to be different from any others yet worked with, and one ton of which produces 40 gallons of oil.
  2. That by special means the coke can be “ activated “ to produce a fuel particularly well suited for use in producer-gas driven motor vehicles, and of high commercial value in consequence.
  3. The method of activating the coke leads to the, production of an oil distillate of lower gravity and more suitable as a material for cracking than would otherwise be obtained.

This activated fuel has been used to propel a five-ton motor lorry, with very satisfactory results. It has been reported overseas that the extraction of oil from coal is not a commercial proposition, because there is no market for the accumulated coke residue, even in such a highly industrialized country as England. Here, surely, is the solution. After the oil is extracted, the remaining coke, which represents fourteen to fifteen cwt. of every ton of coal, can be activated to produce a fuel admirably suited to drive motor vehicles of the type referred to by Dr. Rivett. The report of that gentleman also states -

There are too many unknown and undetermined factors about the Lyons Brothers low temperature distillation work on Maitland coal to permit the drawing of any definite -conclusion in favour of the economic feasibility of the establishment of their process on n large scale.

These unknown and undetermined factors exist only because of the lack of capital possessed by Lyons Brothers, who have demonstrated that they can produce oil of a high-grade quality suitable for the propulsion of motor vehicles, also oil suitable for Diesel engines. It is tragic that any Australian Government should neglect to foster an industry which promises, if properly developed, to mako Australia independent of overseas oil supplies. It would further bring about the rehabilitation of the coal industry, which is languishing because coal has been superseded by benzine. The development of the new industry would give us a favorable trade balance with the United States of America, in which country we expend £17,000,000 per annum to purchase oils and motor fuel. That money could be retained in Australia for the good of the Commonwealth.

I should like to know what is to be done with the balance of the £100,000 that was allotted by the Scullin Government to repatriate coal-miners. I understand that between £50,000 and £60,000 of the money has been expended; a proportion of it in developing the shale oil industry at Newnes, in conjunction with the State Government of New South Wales. It was recently disclosed in the press that that industry has been handed over to private enterprise, and that the Commonwealth Government’ proposes to subsidize the new company on a £1 for £1 basis to the extent of £10,000, so that a tunnel may be put through from Wolgan Valley to Capertee Valley, where shale deposits of a high commercial value are said to exist. There can be no question that the re-establishment of our coal industry possesses far greater possibilities than the development of the shale-oil industry. Further, the development of the latter is a very expensive process, whereas our coal-mines have already been developed, and are lying idle. It would be a far better commercial proposition for the Government to foster the endeavours of the Lyons brothers, who, if granted £20,000, will immediately employ 30 men, and undertake to employ 300 men within two years.

Mr Gregory:

– That is a very pretty story, but there are too many “ if s “ in it.

Mr JAMES:

– They have given a definite assurance. What assurance has been given by the private concern at Newnes? If the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) understood anything about mining, he would know that it costs a great deal of money to drive a tunnel. Even when that is done, the commercial value of the project may be neglible. In the interests of Australia, I hope that this effort will be successful. I should like to know whether the Government intends to place the unexpended portion of that £100,000 in consolidated revenue at the end of the financial year. That would be a regrettable action, tantamount to a breach of faith with the coal industry. The opportunity presents itself to establish our coal industry, and satisfactorily to adjust our trade balance with the United States of America, and I hope the Government will take advantage of it.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr BLAKELEY:
Darling

– I am disappointed with the manner in which the unemployment relief council in New South Wales is functioning. To date I have forwarded to the council, either directly or through the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons), about 30 applications for the allocation of money to various public works. Included amongst them was a proposal for a water supply which would cost about £2,700, of which between 70 per cent, and 80 per cent, would be expended upon labour. The Prime Minister and his colleagues have repeatedly said that the relief grant should be expended on reproductive works, and to my amazement this water supply project was rejected by the Unemployment Council. The secretary of that body wrote to me that this matter was one to be dealt with by the Water Conservation and Irrigation Commission. That body has no money for carrying out new works ; otherwise this job would have been undertaken long ago. I ask the Prime Minister to expedite the publication of the list of works approved by the Unemployment Council in New South Wales.

I am sorry that the Government did not see fit to ask Parliament to appropriate an amount for the relief of the unemployed in Canberra, and has decided instead to make a sum available from the Consolidated Revenue. This. Government has reduced considerably the unemployment relief in the Federal Capital. The domestic responsibilities of the Commonwealth towards the citizens of its own territory are insignificant compared with those of the Government of Tasmania, yet the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Parkhill) has adopted a cheeseparing policy which has resulted in the discontinuance of works and the placing of men on the dole. From hundreds of platforms during the last general election the Prime Minis- ter and his supporters emphasized the necessity for taking men off the dole. The Scullin Government established in Canberra the best system in Australia for ration relief and the provision of work for the unemployed.. The present Government has substituted a policy which may save any amount up to £30,000 by discontinuing employment on relief works, but will largely increase the amount to be expended on rations. Canberra offers excellent opportunities for the saving of money by the expenditure of unemployment relief funds. It is better to expend £30,000 on the permanent surfacing of existing gravel roads, thus saving from £300 to £1,100 a year in maintenance, than to spend only half that amount on the dole. These road works, if not reproductive in the ordinary sense of the term, will at least save money to the Commonwealth.

In addition to the serious diminution of unemployment relief in Canberra and the Northern Territory, the Government has adopted a policy of drastic retrenchment.

Any Government may balance its budget by sacking its employees, but I do not agree with the methods adopted by the Government to effect economies at Canberra. Men who have given as much as twenty years’ loyal service to the Commonwealth have received merely a curt note that they are no longer required. I have in mind three married men with families, men who are householders and taxpayers; their services have been dispensed with, and their positions have been filled by men whose domestic obligations are less. One single man, I am told, is to be brought from Queensland to Canberra to take the place of a married man. There are also disquieting rumours that effect is being given to the inhuman policy enunciated at a recent meeting in Canberra that government employees should be dismissed in order to make room for returned soldiers. I have been told that men with large family responsibilities are to be sacked to make room for ex-soldiers who have been displaced from clerical jobs. I received assurances to the contrary from the Prime Minister yesterday and from the Minister for the Interior this morning, but the rumours are so persistent that I again raise this matter now, knowing that Parliament may adjourn to-day for a couple of months. I hope that the Minister for the Interior will not countenance any policy which involves the sacking of men, many of whom were not fit or able to go to the war - men who have helped to pioneer this city, and who have large family responsibilities. When preference to soldiers was first introduced, not even the most enthusiastic advocate of it ever imagined that it would be applied as is contemplated by one section in Canberra. Repeatedly within the last few weeks returned soldiers have come to me with assurances that they do not believe in this policy, that every man should take his chance, that no man should be discriminated against because he could not go to the war, and that no man with large family responsibilities should be displaced by men without such obligations.

Mr Hutchin:

– How does the honorable member know that these men were unable to go to the war?

Mr BLAKELEY:

– I know of one man who was too young to go, and of another who was physically unfit. In

Donnexion with no government instrumentality outside Canberra is the policy of. sacking of men to make room for returned soldiers, in operation.

Mr Maxwell:

– I do not think that the returned soldiers as a body would ask for that?

Mr BLAKELEY:

– The Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League does not ask for that, nor does the Canberra branch of the league, but at a public meeting of returned soldiers a resolution in those terms was carried, and job after job at present occupied has been canvassed on behalf of ex-service men. Indeed, while I was Minister for Home Affairs I saw correspondence asking that all Government posts, from Civic Administrator down to nightman, should be given to returned soldiers. I hope that nothing will be done to make worse the conditions of employment in Canberra, and that the drastic policy of retrenchment and diminuation of unemployment relief will be discontinued. Instead of putting men on the dole the Government should provide employment on works that will constitute a definite improvement to the Federal Capital city.

Dr MALONEY:
Melbourne

– For 40 years the abolition of unemployment has been one of my most cherished ideals. Amongst the curses by which humanity is afflicted unemployment is second only to war. Ministry after ministry in both State and Federal Parliaments has tackled this problem, but no permanent cure for it has been found. No ministry has handled the problem as it should have been handled. Whatever relief the Commonwealth Government proposes to give should be given quickly. I recollect asking the right honorable member for Flinders (Mr. Bruce) early in his political career that drill halls should be made available to shelter the homeless unemployed. So promptly did he act that within 24 hours the homeless in Melbourne were housed in the drill halls, and supplied with blankets. I am sorry that when subsequently confronted with similar emergencies the right honorable gentleman did not act with the same promptitude. We must remove from Australia the curse of unemployment, and it would be well worth while to hold a special session, from which party feeling would be eliminated, so as to do all within our power to solve the unemployment problem. If it were a question of war, how quickly would we act ! But is not the present difference between those who want work and those who have it of greater moment ? During the war human life was sacrificed with a recklessness which made one view it with horror. There was no trouble in Australia until after the war, when we introduced a system of bookkeeping which saddled, not only this generation, but every generation to follow, with huge debt and interest commitments. For every £100 we pay to America to meet our interest debt, we have to send an additional £19. Yet some people say that if we refuse to do that, we shall be a party to repudiation. I can only say “ God give sense to the people who contend that Australia should bear such a burden “. Germany has said that it cannot, and will not pay its debts. Every European nation is in a somewhat similar position. The United States of America set a splendid example of generosity when, in respect of the debt owed to it by Italy, it arranged that no interest would be paid for five years, that an interest rate of 2s. 6d. per cent, would “ apply for the next ten years ; 5s. per cent, for the next ten years ; 10s. per cent, for the next ten years, and so on, until towards the end of the 60 years’ period, the interest rate would be 1 per cent.

If we are to follow the scriptures we must get rid of the curse of interest payments find unemployment. If we would only spend one-tenth of what we expended willingly on the war, there would be little or no unemployment in the community. Although every government throughout Australia is at present disorganized, our workers have completed the Sydney Harbour bridge. The Englishman who supervised that work stated that our educated workers were unsurpassed in the world. The great Australian, Dr. Bradfield, who designed the bridge said that if it were necessary, the same organization could bridge the Sydney heads. I asked him how was it that our politicians, our thinkers, our statesmen, our university professors, could not suggest some solution of the unemployment problem? He replied that, they would not organize, that they had brains but would not use them. Professors who have studied the habits of ants and bees tell us that never in the hive of the ant or the bee has want or privation existed. It is said that the human being is the highest form of life, and that man is fashioned in God’s image; but I doubt that, because I cannot imagine that the Almighty has a form similar to that of some human beings whom I have seen. What is Godlike aboutus is our little spark of conscience, which never lies to us. No human being should suffer in a country like Australia, which produces far more of the necessaries of life than its people can consume. This socalled civilization has been fooled by a system of bookkeeping which has piled up our war debts. It has been said that the great Napoleon left France without a national debt. One of the most important merchants of Melbourne, who had been abroad for some years, told me that he had lived in France in preference to London because the taxation in Great Britain was so heavy that it would have ruined him to live there. He told me that the taxation in Paris was almost a bagatelle in comparison. I asked him the reason for that. He attributed the low taxation in France to the wonderful organization of which the great Napoleon laid the foundations when he appointed what are known as the 800 Communes. Those Communes had to present their accounts every quarter to the central authority. He also attributed the financial stability of France to the wonderful management of the Bank of Franco. Instead of following the example of that nation, the Scullin Government invited a gentleman from Canada to come here and to institute the awful sales tax. Sir Otto Niemeyer was also invited to Australia. I was told that he had come here uninvited, but some months later I learnt that that was a lie. Seeing that he was an invited guest, he should have received more courtesy than he did receive at the hands of the Government of the day. We did not follow his advice, because similar advice had not enabled Great Britain to overcome its financial problems. I disagreed with his views, but he certainly admitted that I was right when I said that the United States of America had treated Great Britain with generosity by reducing the interest rate on its loans to 3 per cent. for ten years. He also stated that Australia could not be treated by Great Britain as generously as the United States of America had dealt with Great Britain. That is where he and. I differed. I still say that England, despite its financial problems, should treat usasgenerously as it has treated France, Italy and Portugal. God has blessed Australia; because it produces three times as much food as the people can consume, yet there are in the community little children whose health is being impaired by lack of milk and proper food. There are medical men who will verify my statement. Dr. Robertson and the late Dr. Arthur did a great deal of good work in that respect. They have shown clearly that a child which does not have proper food will never become a healthy adult, and healthy citizens are the. greatest asset that any nation can possess.

The CHAIRMAN:

– The honorable member’s time has expired.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- In dealing with Supply, the Government should have given honorable members some indication when Parliament is to meet again.

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I have already said that the budget will be introduced before the end of July.

Mr GREGORY:

– That is very satisfactory. The difficulties with which thisGovernment has had to contend in connexion with New South Wales has caused it to defer much legislation which should have been before this Parliament. There should be no undue delay in lightening the burden of taxation upon the people, particularly in respect of the tariff. I desire to impress upon the committee the absolute necessity for cutting down governmental expenditure in Australia. It would be disastrous to continue along the lines that have been followed in the past. Both Commonwealth andState Governments are taking from the people much money that ought to be used in production. In 1920, about £115,000,000 sufficed for Commonwealth and State Government activities, but in 1930 the expenditure in that direction had increased to £391,000,000. The Government might well have introduced its Supply bill yesterday, and afforded a full opportunity for considering in what direction economy could be effected. I was greatly surprised to learn, a little while back, that u clerk in the Commonwealth Public Service, whoso salary is under £450 per annum, is paid, under an arbitration award, when travelling, say, between Melbourne and Canberra, not only a travelling allowance of 8s. Sd., with a free ticket, and a free sleeping berth, but also an “ excess “ allowance at an hourly rate, varying according to his pay, for the time occupied in travel between that at which be would ordinarily leave his office and 10.30 p.m., when he would go to bed in the sleeping car, and again from 7 o’clock, when he rose, until the ordinary time for commencing work. For travelling between Melbourne and Canberra, “ excess “ travelling time would cost £1 128. 10d., and between Canberra and Melbourne 19s. lid. I have no objection to the payment of officers’ out-of-pocket expenses when travelling on duty, but it is scandalous that the travelling allowances prescribed by the Public Service Arbitrator are approved by the Government. Members of the Public Service Board receive high salaries for the work of classifying the service, and the effect of their labours is being destroyed by decisions of the Public Service Arbitrator. Under one stupid regulation, if a boy of seventeen or eighteen years of age marries, he must be paid at the rate applicable to adults. Goodness knows where this extravagance will end.

I would have liked to hear from the Prime Minister what the Government proposes to do regarding the conversion of loans, and what prospect there is not only of the success1 of the conversion this year of stock amounting to £15,000,000, but also of making large conversions in the future years. Next year £37,000,000 ; in the following year, £47,000,000, and in the year after that £57,000,000 will have to be converted. Some of these loans were probably floated at 3 per cent, or 3£ per cent., and a blunder might be made if we suggested that they should be converted at a certain rate of interest, which might be higher than the original rate. The success we shall achieve with regard to those loans will be determined to a great extent by the efforts we make to reduce governmental expenditure. Australia needs to encourage capitalists from overseas to come here, and to help in the development of the resources of this country.

The honorable member for Newcastle (Mr. Watkins) recently asked the Government to advance some thousands of pounds for the promotion of a certain scheme of development; but I claim that private enterprise should be left to undertake such work. Governments in other countries recognize that such risks properly belong to private enterprise. If schemes are worth developing, private capital will be available for the work. I recently had a conversation with a geologist from the United States of America, who is now proceeding to Longreach for the purpose of making geological investigations. He told me that the interests with which he was associated made a practice of sending geologists into new areas and allowing them to carry out their work for two or even three years, without supplying reports; but, he said, that when favorable indications were reported, hundreds of millions of dollars were made available for the purpose of carrying out exploration work. When it can be shown that a margin of profit is obtainable from a certain undertaking, private enterprise will provide the necessary capital; but, in this country, there is generally some person with a plausible tongue, who, having failed to obtain money from private sources, can induce a government to grant a subsidy. Public expenditure of this kind too often results in heavy loss to the taxpayers. *

I see no reference in this bill to a grant to Western Australia. In 1927, a bill was passed through this Parliament under which that State was to receive £3,000,000 per annum on account of its disabilities under federation. It was recently stated by the Premier of South Australia that owing to the operation of the tariff, that State lost about £2,000,000 per annum. If South Australia is a heavy loser under federation, how great must be the loss of Western Australia, which is essentially a primary producing State? Its productions are chiefly wheat, wool, and metals, and at every turn its settler? are faced with the injurious effects of the tariff. Whenever new land is developed in that State increased employment is found for secondary industries in Victoria and New South Wales. Owing to the operation of the Navigation Act, the freight from Melbourne to Perth is greater than from London to Perth. Western Australia is the greatest sufferer of all the States under federation. I do not suppose, for a moment, that the Government will suspend the payment’ of the annual subsidy to that State. The independent commission which investigated the claims of Western Australia recommended by a majority that £450,000 per year should be granted, and the amount made available was £300,000. Two of the Commissioners reported that, under federal legislation, Western Australia had no chance of making good, and the sooner she left the federation the better it would be for her. Personally, I am not in favour of the principle of federal subsidies to States. Such payments would not be necessary if all the States were placed on a fair competitive basis, and allowed to buy in the cheapest markets of the world.

Mr NELSON:
Northern Territory

– It is necessary to make substantial provision for unemployment. The depressed conditions now experienced generally in Australia should make us intent on establishing payable industries. Australia to-day supplies 80 per cent, of the world’s output of pearl shell, and it could easily meet the whole of the requirements. Under present conditions, the output is restricted “ under regulations issued by the Commonwealth Government. This means that only half the number of boats formerly employed are working to-day, but seeing that Australia has almost a monopoly of the output, what logical objection can there be to producing and manufacturing the whole of the world’s requirements in Australia! There are, in the north of Aus- tralia, huge pearl beds which are not being worked because of the controlled ‘ output. Last year, the total value of the output amounted to £81,520, but that production could be increased threefold if an incentive were given for increased activity in the industry. I draw attention to the last paragraph in the Tariff Board’s report on this industry.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr Bell:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

– The honorable member will not be in order in anticipating a tariff debate.

Mr NELSON:

– I am referring to the need for establishing the pearl sheil industry on an improved basis. It is capable of supplying the world’s market, and 1 suggest that if any other country were in the unique position of Australia in that respect, it would manufacture the whole of the requirements of the market. Here is an avenue for the employment of many thousands of men in producing a commodity better than that obtainable in any other part of the world. Similarly, employment could be found in the Northern Territory in agriculture. The Administrator, referring to the cultivation of pean’uts. states in his report -

By direction of the Minister, during the year 44 mcn from the unemployed in Darwin and district who applied to go on the land were placed on blocks, and granted a subsistence allowance of 30s. per week, payment to continue until the first crop was harvested. Of these men, 33 now remain on their farms.

It would be infinitely preferable to employ men in that direction than to keep them on the dole. The value of the peanut crop last year was £9,777, and the nuts realized 7.22d. per lb. About 50 tons was sold outside the government ring, and it realized a slightly higher price. The land that is available and suitable for the cultivation of this crop belongs to the people of Australia, and we should make use of this means of providing employment in profitable directions. The mining reports show that about 150 men have “been sent out, and, with the assistance of the Government, a considerable quantity of ore has been mined, but no assistance is given in treating the ore. I pointed out the other day that many industries have reached the saturation point, but in north Australia numerous opportunities for development are offered. I gave the Minister the official report of the American cattlemen who visited the territory. If land like that in many parts of the Northern Territory were found in America, it would quickly be put to profitable use. This country, being Crown property, could be leased at a peppercorn rental, and people could be removed to it from the congested city areas. I hope that the Government will consider the advisability of expending money for developmental purposes in the manner I have indicated. The present method of relieving unemployment by giving such work as shifting sand will not provide a permanent solution of the problem of unemployment. We shall be lacking in our duty to the unemployed if we do not avail ourselves of the other opportunities that are open to us.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- I gather from the remarks of the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) that this House will not re-assemble until late in July. If that is so, I protest against a protracted adjournment of Parliament when the Government has made only futile and puny efforts to relieve unemployment.

I was interested in the statement of the Leader of the Country party (Dr. Earle Page) that he hoped that some concessions would be granted to Australia at the forthcoming Ottawa Conference. Unfortunately, the Government has not afforded this House an opportunity to discuss the matters to be considered at the conference, but I have read in the press, that not only members of the British Labour party, but representative men in other parties, are already preparing the Australian public for the disappointment they must experience. The Ottawa Conference, so far from conferring benefits on Australia, is more likely to produce a threat from the British Government that all existing preferences to Australian produce will be withdrawn if we are not prepared to lower our tariff wall. The right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page), whilst professing to be almost a free trader, yet advocates the erection of a high tariff wall about the Empire, in the hope that Australia may be better able, if that is done, to sell its exportable products. During the war we had no difficulty in selling our wheat and wool, and some professing patriots may be interested to know that the British Government was buying Australian wheat at half the price it was paying to other Dominions, and at onethird of the price paid to other countries. This House should at least have an opportunity to discuss the proposals to be submitted at the Ottawa Conference by the Australian delegation. Mr. Walter Runciman, *president of the British

Board of Trade, has already been outspoken regarding the little that Australia may expect from that gathering, and Lord Vestey, the meat king, has been very frank on the subject of meat. No doubt Great Britain could provide an enormous market for Australian produce, but it takes only a very small proportion of our exportable surplus, and but for the market that was found in the East last year, an enormous surplus of wheat would have been left on our hands. The Government should consider whether it is worth while for the Commonwealth to send delegates to Ottawa in the absence of any assurance that definite advantage will accrue to this country. If the conference is to be utilized merely to enable the British delegates to brow-beat the Commonwealth into the reduction of tariff duties, the Government should not inspire our wheat-producers with hopes that are doomed to disappointment. During thd war Great Britain bought our wool at a fixed price, and sold it to foreign countries at a considerable profit. The British Government, not the Australian producers, obtained the benefit of the high prices thus realized. Australia has never received a fair deal in regard to the sale of its primary products overseas. When the British people wanted our wheat or wool they bought it, and did not concern themselves with world prices. They appealed to the patriotism of the Australian people, and our producers sold their wheat and wool overseas at much less than world prices. Today world prices are quoted against us: we are told that the cost of production must be reduced to enable our exportable commodities to be sold at prices which will enable them to compete with the products of other countries. When a shipload of timber arrived in Sydney from the Russian Soviet Republic some honorable members were much concerned, and demanded that the Government should inquire whether that timber had been produced with slave labour. Why do they not ask the British Government to inquire into the conditions under which the Soviet wheat, that is now being bought in England, was* produced ? The Sunday Sun published, a week ago, an article warning the Australian people that Great Britain will continue to buy wheat, meat and other commodities in the cheapest market. One gentleman closely connected with the British Government stated that the United Kingdom would have to purchase large quantities of Soviet wheat; otherwise the dumping of Lt on other markets would cause a further depression of prices.

Regarding the alleviation of unemployment I have definite views. This problem will never be solved while the existing social order continues. There must be a complete reconstruction of the system of government so that the welfare of the people will be the first concern of constituted authority. Those honorable members who are continually defending private enterprise should realize that it has failed to meet the needs of the people to-day. They do not speak of leaving to private enterprise such businesses as the conduct of hostels; those conveniences they declare should be provided from the public purse. I suggest to honorable members opposite that if, instead of always looking to the other side of the world for their political opinions, they would take an Australian national view of these problems, there would be some hope of making substantial progress. The honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) is one of the most sincere men in this Parliament, but I have no faith in his proposal for the holding of a special session to deal with unemployment. There is no prospect of curing this evil until currency and finance are controlled by the representatives, of the people. Honorable members say that there should be no political control of banking and currency, but the Commonwealth Bank is controlled politically, and by one party only. Currency problems should be decided by Parliament and not by a” board representing only one section of political opinion.

I protest against the adjournment of Parliament for two months or more, but probably this House will be called together earlier to enact further enforcement legislation after Mr. Lang has been returned to office with a majority. T enter my protest against the inactivity of the Government, not in respect of its own supporters, for there it has been exceptionally active, but with regard to the people of Australia generally, and the hundreds of thousands who are unemployed, in particular.

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne Ports

– When introducing this bill, the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) pointed out that the cost of pensions and social services generally had increased, due to the additional claims lodged because of the prevailing depression. That merely confirms my opinion that economies such as those effected must have a boomerang effect, and react on the community. The result should spur on the Government to do its best to relieve unemployment. Special appeals have been made to private enterprise to assist to stimulate industry, and so stop the rot.

Two or three things are worrying me at the moment. First of all, the possibility of a long recess, during which unemployment may become even more acute. Parliament will not be sitting, so it will not be possible for the Government to obtain further supply to meet an emergency; although, I hope, one will not arise. Nor do 1 think that the Government has done all that is possible to encourage companies to respond to its appeal, and do something to relieve unemployment by stimulating industry. I have in mind the project of a company in my electorate. That concern bought a large area of land from the Melbourne Harbour Trust, with the concurrence of the State Government, prepared plans, and was about to build an oil refinery on most modern lines. The land cost between £50,000 and £60,000, and in a signed agreement the company guaranteed that within twelve months it would expend £750,000, largely on labour. I immediately set to work on behalf of the unemployed in the district, and arranged that the company should employ a larger number of men than was originally intended by flooding the area with electric light and using three shifts, instead of one. At the time I had not the remotest idea that the Federal Government would object to the work proceeding, as the operations of the company did not involve any alteration of the tariff. Ever since the agreement was signed in November last work has been held up, and 600 men have been denied employment.

I understand that the Federal Government takes exception to the enterprise. Judging from the utterances of Ministers. on tobacco and other items, the. Government does not intend to interfere in fiscal matters except when an enterprise or duty would result in a loss of revenue. That, of course, is a consideration, but it is more than outweighed by the field of taxation that would be introduced if this large number of men were set to work. The preliminary part of the work would take twelve months, and would employ 600 men, working in three shifts of 200 each. That would merely prepare foundations for the building. Every body knows the indirect advantage to the surrounding district would be almost incalculable. A further twelve months would be taken to complete the building, 90’ per cent, of Australian raw materials being used, and two years would elapse before the company began to place its products on the market. The Commonwealth Government would, therefore, have ample time to readjust any slight unbalancing of its revenues that might occur. Personally I foresee only advantage from the enterprise. The company would manufacture crude into refined oil. I see no more objection to that than to the manufacture of boots, hats, clothes, or anything else. Every time I go to my electorate I am worried by those who were promised employment, and I should like the Government either to allow the job to proceed promptly, or make a definite pronouncement on the subject.

The honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) spoke about the sum of £100,000 which was allotted for the re-absorption of surplus coal-miners into industry. I had something to do with the inauguration of that scheme, and I have seen some of the samples of oil that have been extracted from shale deposits as a result of the expenditure of a portion of the money. This country has numerous shale oil deposits, but at present lacks a modern refinery to treat shale. The factory to which I have referred would have provided adequate facilities, and it undertook in writing to use Australian raw products whenever they could be supplied. Surely it is of advantage to Australia to have this modern oil refinery? I know that the Minister for Trade and Customs believes that transport costs would be reduced if we had refineries in two or three, or, if possible, in all of the capital cities, rather than one great central refinery. I do not know whether his scheme is possible, but I do know that we have nothing in Australia that can be compared with the refinery that was to be established in my electorate. Because of that, I can ascribe^ no sound reason to the objection raised by the Government, which, in common with every other Federal Government since federation, seeks to initiate industries and to foster existing ones. I urge the Minister to give a favorable decision,, or, at least, to make a definite pronouncement on the subject.

I should also like to know whether the Government has made provision for the taking of the census at an early date. Our present census statistics are woefully out of date, “and are of little use for economic calculations. There are many unemployed who cannot do pick and shovel work, but who could be most appropriately employed taking the census. That task, and the building of the oil refinery to which I have referred, would create the stimuli which the Minister says is so necessary, if we are successfully to grapple with the unemployment problem.

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

.- The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin), the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Blakeley), and the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney), all dealt with unemployment, and expressed the hope that the Government was keeping the problem well in the forefront, with a view to taking definite action. I assure honorable members that that is certainly being done. [Quorum formed.] At the recent Premiers ‘ Conference, an arrangement was arrived at whereby the expenditure of £3,000,000 would be undertaken in an effort to assist in the solution of the problem of unemployment. All the employment councils are now operating, and it is sincerely hoped that, out of the work that they are doing, there will be evolved schemes of a truly reproductive character which will lead to the permanent absorption of our unemployed. If those schemes are a success, there will be every reason for proceeding further, and of expanding the undertakings now being embarked upon. I assure the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin), and honorable members opposite, that the Government will carefully watch the unemployment situation during the recess. There appears to be some uncertainty as to what I said regarding the reassembling of Parliament. I said that the Government proposed to bring down the budget during July, and that, of course, would necessitate the re-assembling of Parliament.

The honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) referred to the construction of oil refineries on the banks of the Yarra. This is a matter which is, to some extent, associated with the problem of unemployment. The honorable member spoke of the Government. “ allowing “ the work to go on. The Government is doing nothing to prevent it. The company could begin erecting the refinery to-morrow if it wanted to. The only way in which the Government isinvolved is that the company, apparently, desires, the Government to give an undertaking that the existing margin of 3d. a gallon between the import duty and excise rates on refined petrol will be maintained. The Government will certainly not give any such undertaking. The; honorable member’s statement that the present margin has- existed for a considerable period - for ten or fifteen yea,rs - is not true. Up- to 1927, the difference was only Id..- The honorable member may confirm my statement by consulting the official figures-. The Government is not likely to give the undertaking asked for when it has before it a report of the Tariff Board stating that a margin of 1-Jd. would be sufficient, to protect the industry in this country.

Mr Paterson:

– The duty was only Id. a gallon up to 1926”.

Mr Holloway:

– The margin has been id. a gallon for many years.

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The honorable member must be wrong, because in 1926 the duty on petrol was only Id. a gallon, and there was no excise duty. It was impossible, therefore, for the margin between the two to be 3d.

The honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) spoke of the efforts which have been made in this country to extract petrol from coal. The honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) reminded him that, if the pro position were as good as he made out. there would be no difficulty in getting private capital to develop it. The most exhaustive experiments have been proceeding over a period of years in Germany and Great Britain with a view to making a. commercial success of this process. Through the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, the Government has access to the results of those experiments. The honorable member may rest assured that if anything of real promise is discovered - and enormous sums of money are being spent on research - the Government’ will not be dilatory in- taking such steps as may be necessary to place the industry in Australia on a. sound basis-. Athe present time, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research is bringing an expert to Australia, before whom the honorable member for Hunter may pui his case.

I deprecate the attitude taken up by the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) when discussing the Imperial Economic Conference at Ottawa. According to him,. Australia has. been badly treated by Great Britain in regard to trade. He stated that, during, the wai. Great Britain had paid less for Australian wheat than foc wheat bought in other countries. The honorable member forgot to mention that Australian wheat had to be conveyed an enormous distance to Great Britain as compared with wheat from other countries, and thai if Britain had used her available transport during the war to> bring all her wheat supplies from the nearest point of production, say, Canada, Australia would not have sold one bushel of wheat, and it would have been left rotting on our hands. The honorable member also said that Britain had treated us ungenerously during the war with regard to wool. Again, the honorable member forgot to mention that we entered into an agreement with Britain for the sale of all our wool at ls. 3d. per lb. for the period of the war, and that half of any profits made by Great Britain should be returned to Australia by the British Government - the actual owners of the wool. I do not think that that can be regarded as ungenerous treatment. The honorable member said that Britain had taken only a small portion of our exports - a “ fleabite,” I think, was the word he used. The fact is that, for many years, Britain has taken more than half our exports. 1 agree with the right honorable member for Cowper (Dr. Earle Page) that it would be impracticable for the Government to permit a general discussion regarding the policy to be pursued by Australia’s delegates at the Ottawa Conference. Many difficult questions have to be settled; but negotiations on both sides will be conducted with a view to achieving the maximum mutual benefit. It is of vital importance to Britain that Australia should regain her prosperity. Whatever concessions we grant to Britain at the present time can be of relatively little value, because of Australia’s reduced purchasing power. In the days of our prosperity we were Britain’s second best customer, and, if we can overcome our economic difficulties, there is no reason why we should not resume that place. It is also important to Australia that Britain’s purchasing power should be restored, because it is to the British market that we must look for any real expansion of our exporting industries. We, in Australia, have conceded important benefits to Great Britain over a period of many years. I was extremely sorry to have brought under my notice the British press references to the attitude Britain was likely to take up at the Ottawa Conference. It was stated in those newspaper extracts that Britain had recently imposed a tariff under which it had granted a preference of 10 per cent, to many items of dominion produce. That preference, however, would expire in November, and, unless Australia was prepared to grant greater preference to British goods, British preference would not be renewed in respect to our produce. The tone of the articles was something in the nature of an ultimatum. I am certain that that will not be the attitude of the British Government. If it were, it is not one that Australia or her representatives could tolerate. If we are to be treated at the conference to statements about what the British Navy has done for us, and are to be told that our stocks in Great Britain are trustee stocks, it will be necessary for Australia to remind those who say such things that Australia, for many years, and with a very meagre response from Britain, has granted substantial preference to British goods. That this preference has been of value is indicated by the great volume of trade Britain has done with Australia. I am certain, however, that such an attitude will not be taken up by the British Government, nor will it be necessary for the Australian representatives to mention the things I have referred to.

At the forthcoming conference all the delegates must look to the future. Australia must do whatever is possible, consonant with her own vital interests, to promote British trade in the Australian market. Britain, I am sure, will reciprocate with respect to Australian products. Until our representatives get to the conference we shall not have an opportunity of discussing with the British delegates those products which it is vital to us that we should place on the British market, nor the means by which we may assist British trade in the Australian market. We must assure to Britain all the trade that we can possibly give her in this country, because it is our desire to give her priority over other nations.

The honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) referred to the taking of a census. The Government has this matter under consideration at the present time. It is most anxious to proceed with the census, because it desires to obtain necessary information for statistical purposes, and because this work will provide employment for a class not catered for under any of the existing unemployment relief schemes. The matter is largely governed by financial considerations, and in these is involved not only the finances of the Commonwealth, but of the States as well. We have already made considerable progress with a general review of national finances, and I hope that we shall shortly be able to decide whether or not it will be possible to take a census.

The suggestion has been made that Parliament should not go into recess, as is proposed. Some honorable members implied that the Government would be guilty of a dereliction of duty if it were to adjourn Parliament now, and not call it together again until July. I suggest that that opinion has no foundation in fact. It is contemplated that a

Premiers Conference and a meeting of the Loan Council should take place during the third week of June. The budgets of the Commonwealth and of the States will : then be considered, so that we may arrive at the financial policy of Australia for the coming year. The task that is confronting the Commonwealth and the States is one of the greatest difficulty, and if we are to find a solution of our many problems, it is absolutely essential that the fullest preparatory work should be done before those conferences take place. It is, therefore, necessary that Parliament shall adjourn now so that Ministers may concentrate upon the questions which have to be considered at the conference.

The honorable member for Swan has referred to the economies that are to take place in the coming year. He has raised certain specific questions which he thinks should be considered. I can assure him that all those questions are being considered, but they do not arise under the Supply Bill, which is based upon last year’s appropriation. I agree with the honorable member that it is desirable that we should reduce taxation in order to stimulate industry and employment. But, although we have reached a point beyond which we can scarcely go in the matter of taxation, the financial stress is so great that it is extremely difficult to see how taxation can be reduced. The honorable member indicated that he would like to know what the Government contemplated in respect of maturing loans. We have a loan of £13,000.000, borrowed by New South Wales falling due in London next November, and other large loans mature in the following year. At the moment I cannot give any indication of the Government’s loan policy. I do not think that any one in Australia could indicate now what the financial policy of Ausis to be, or what are the possibilities. The decision made by the electors of New South Wales and Queensland on the 11th June, is the vital factor. If, as a result of those elections, governments are returned to power which declare for a policy of honesty, the standing to our obligations, and the balancing of budgets, which would restore confidence in Australia, I do not think that there will be any difficulty in secur ing satisfactory renewals of loans. We could then begin to think of converting loans bearing interest at 5 per cent. and over to a lower rate. But if the electors of New South Wales and Queensland do not thus assist to restore confidence in Australia, it will be impossible to say what we shall have to do in regard to our maturing obligations overseas.

Mr Blakeley:

– Will the Assistant Treasurer reply to my question regarding unemployment in the Federal Capital Territory ?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The honorable member referred to certain action which he suggested had been taken in the Federal Capital Territory in respect of employment. I refer him, in the first place, to the answer given to him to-day by the Minister for the Interior (Mr. Parkhill). The honorable member asked a question regarding 400 men who, he alleged, were to be discharged.

Mr Blakeley:

– I said that some of them were to be discharged, but that all of them were uneasy.

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The Minister for the Interior dealt with that point this morning. The Minister has previously dealt with the whole question of sustenance, and the policy of the Government in the Federal Territory. He has pointed out. that it is impossible for the federal authorities to relax its restrictions regarding the granting of sustenance,’ or to make its terms too liberal, because the effect of that would be to attract immediately to this territory the unemployed of the States, and thus place an additional burden on this Government. The honorable member stated that the obligations of the Commonwealth in regard to unemployment were nothing compared to those of Tasmania. I agree with him. We really have no problem of unemployment to solve, and we could, if it were thought fit, help the unemployed inside our territory to a generous extent, but that would be unfair to the unemployed in the States. We must keep in line with the States. If we relax our restrictions we shall attract many unemployed from the rest of Australia. The honorable member also made reference to the taking of men out of employment, and putting them on the dole. I entirely agree with him that that should be avoided as much as possible, but I would remindhim thatwe have definitely indicated chat while we are rendering assistance to the States to enable them to provide employment, we have an obligation to the residents of the Federal Territory. We are taking action in the Territory, quite apart from the general scheme, to give a measure of assistance to the unemployed. That assistance will continue, and I hope that it will bring about the reduction of the n umber of persons who are unfortunately unemployed in the Territory. The honorable member also spoke of the demands made by certain returned soldiers. I subscribe to the policy that the Government has adopted in regard to the employment of returned soldiers, and the preference that is given to them. They are entitled to fair and equitable treatment, hut I part company with returned soldiers who demand in these times an expansion of their privileges to the extent of dismissing men and putting unemployed returned soldiers in their places.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended, and resolution adopted.

Resolution of Ways and Means founded on resolution of Supply reported and adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Mr. Fenton do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Bruce, and read a first and second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- I have asked the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) to let me know the position respecting the special grant; to Western Australia in view of the fact that the act will expire this year.

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– It is true that the grant which was made to Western Australia for a period of five years has now expired, and that the position of that State must be reconsidered, on the basis of what is fair and equitable treatment for it. The question of what financial assistance it would be fair and reasonable to grant to Western Australia will comeup at the conference to be held in June, to which I have already referred. We are in communication withthe Premier of Western Australia. It will be remembered that a few days ago certain questions were asked in this House about the representations that had been made by South Australia for a grant, and I have no doubt that similar representation will be received at an early date from the Government of Western Australia, and that the matter will be given consideration prior to the meeting of the conference.

Bill agreed to and reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

Sitting suspended from 2 to 2.30 p.m.

page 1273

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) proposed -

That Orders of the Day, Nos . 1 to 7, be postponed until after Order of the Day No. 8.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

– I support this motion, because I am pleased that consideration of the tariff schedule, in the formsubmitted by the Government, is to be postponed.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member may not proceed on those lines. He must confine himself to giving reasons why certain orders of the day should, or should not, be postponed.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

.- I understand that the order of the day which the Government desires to bring on for discussion immediately is the second reading of the Bankruptcy Bill, a measure which contains about 67 clauses. Only this morning members received a memorandum setting out the alterations made by this bill in the original act. Last week,’ the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons), in reply to the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb), stated that this bill would not be further proceeded with prior to the adjournment for the recess, and I believe that that answer was repeated when I again mentioned the matter. Can the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) now say why he wishes to proceed with the consideration of this bill, seeing that if the Parliament rises for the recess to-day, it will be impossible to give it the full consideration that it deserves?

Mr BAKER:
Oxley

.- I also protest against the manner in which this bill has been brought before the House. This morning we received a memorandum, consisting of 50 printed pages, showing proposed amendments to the bankruptcy law. Some of the amendments provide for definite variations of the principal act. With the limited time available to members for the consideration of the measure, it would be impossible to do justice to the bill. Members might reasonably ask that the discussion be resumed a couple of months hence.

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I wish to make my secondreading speech, but the Government will not attempt to pass the measure through all stages if it is the general desire of the House to discuss it at length.

Mr Nairn:

– On a point of order, I ask whether I am not entitled to give reasons why Order of the Day No.6, which relates to the tariff, should not be postponed ?

Mr SPEAKER:

– When the honorable member rose previously, I informed him that he was at liberty to give reasons against the postponement of any of the intervening orders of the day. At the time,I understood that he desired definitely to discuss the tariff schedule. - Mr. Nairn. - I merely wished to support the motion before the House, because the tariff schedule was brought down in an incomplete condition, and could not be satisfactorily dealt with during the present session. My suggestion is that during the recess the schedule should be handed over to the Tariff Board.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is transgressing the rules, and may not proceed on those lines.

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The Government is merely asking the House to agree to the postponement of certain items on the business paper so that one may be dealt with before others. The wish of the Government is that the second-reading speech on the Bankruptcy Bill shall be made forthwith, but as the measure is a long one, if the House then considers it desirable to discuss the clauses in detail, there will obviously be insufficient time to pass the measure before we rise to-day for the recess. But certain facts ought to be put before the House before we decide whether or not the bill shall be immediately proceeded with.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 1274

BANKRUPTCY BILL

Second Reading

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time. This measure, the object of which is to amend the Bankruptcy Act, contains a considerable number of clauses, embodying amendments of the Principal Act.

Honorable members will recall that in 1924 the control of bankruptcy was taken over by the Commonwealth, and a comprehensive measure was brought down which was really a charter of Australia’s bankruptcy law. The act was proclaimedin 1928, and all bankruptcy proceedings are now carried out under Commonwealth legislation. During the period that has elapsed since the act came into operation, certain defects have been discovered, due to some extent to the fact that the State legislation and procedure with regard to bankruptcy practice differed somewhat, particularly with respect to such matters as deeds of arrangement. When the amending bill was being drafted, representations regarding the measure weremade to the Government by such bodies as the Associated Chambers of Commerce, Bankers, Trustees Association, and the Law Institute; they suggested certain amendments of the law. No doubt many honorable members have received from those bodies representations on the points that they desire to have considered. The representations made cover the whole field of bankruptcy proceedings, and various alterations of the principal act have been considered and agreed to. These bodies are in accord with the bill as it now stands, and they are desirous that it should be passed before Parliament rises for a recess.

The greater part of the amendments are of an administrative and machinery character and have been found necessary because of difficulties that have arisen in the operation of the act. But certain major amendments are also made. I put it to honorable members that it is of urgent importance that this bill should be dealt with immediately.

Different practices have obtained in the various States in regard to procedure in cases short of actual bankruptcy proceedings. In South Australia and Western Australia certain arrangements were provided for, such as compositions and assignments without sequestration of the estate of the bankrupt. In the other States the matter was dealt with generally by means of deeds of arrangement, and different practices were followed. In the Commonwealth Bankruptcy Act an attempt was made to bring about a general procedure in conformity with the existing practices. Therefore, in Part XI. of the act, provision was made for the retention in those States of the practice which had prevailed in South Australia and Western Australia, and the procedure adopted by the rest of the Commonwealth was embodied in Part XII.Ineednotnowdiscusstheslight differences between Parts XI. and XII., but a general basis of procedure was laid down. Provision was made to meet such a case as that of a trader, such as a country storekeeper, whose affairs had become involved and whose creditors were not prepared to give him further financial aid.’ There is always the possibility of an unfortunate man in such a position being forced into bankruptcy, with all its attendant disadvantages. To avoid this, an inspector is often appointed under a deed of inspectorship, to give the debtor a chance to weather the storm. In such a case there is no bankruptcy. The business is carried on under a deed of inspectorship, the inspector accepting responsibility for its proper conduct. Under such a deed there is a postponement of the payment of the trader’s debts, and the business is conducted really for the creditors who have executed the deed of inspectorship. The general practice and understanding has always been that goods supplied under such a deed shall receive preferential treatment, and be paid for within seven days, or some other short period, and, in the event of a subsequent bankruptcy, the advances so made shall be in an advantageous position compared with those made prior to the date of the deed of inspectorship. This is a perfectly reasonable arrangement, the object being, as I have said, to give a trader a chance to overcome his difficulties. That was the position that prevailed in regard to inspectorships and straightout deeds of assignment prior to the passing of the Commonwealth law; but. in consequence of certain decisions of the Bankruptcy Court, preferential treatment cannot now be given in respect of goods obtained under a deed of inspectorship, because, if the debtor is subsequently declared bankrupt, andhis estate sequestrated, all the debts come into the estate on the same basis. I am sure that honorable members generally will agree that it would be unfortunate for a struggling country storekeeper to be made bankrupt in these depressed times. The trader’s creditors may be quite satisfied that he is an honest man, and may be willing to do their best to help him. They may desire to execute a deed of inspectorship, postponing the date for the payment of their debts, the business being carried on in the hope that there will be a surplus from time to time sufficient to repay the money owing. It is, however, essential where there is such an arrangement that goods supplied in the period intervening between the making of a deed of inspectorship and a subsequent bankruptcy should receive preferential treatment.

Mr Scullin:

– Would they receive preferential treatment as against a mortgage?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– No; the mortgagee would be a secured creditor not affected by the bankruptcy. Out of my own experience, I know how unfortunate it will be for men who have got into business troubles, and whose creditors are willing to help them, if they are prevented from receiving this help because of the decision of the Bankruptcy Court. The object of the first group of major amendments in this bill is, therefore, to open the door for creditors to come in and help debtors in whom they have confidence. If a man’s creditors have faith in him, it is only reasonable that they should give him an opportunity to recover the ground that he has lost. Amendments of the law to provide for this being done are universally desired by those dealing with bankruptcy matters. The amendments in proposed new section 19c are designed to protect the supplier of goods in the circumstances I have outlined.

The amendments in proposed nev section 88a have been framed with the object of protecting trustees. At present, if a bankruptcy supervenes in respect of a business which a trustee is carrying on under a deed of assignment, the trustee is held personally liable for any contracts that he has entered into. That is an impossible position, which still further limits creditors in their desire to help an unfortunate debtor to overcome hi3 troubles. The object of the amendments in thi3 group therefore is to protect the trustee in respect of anything that he does in the legitimate carrying out of the responsibilities entrusted to him by creditors under a deed of assignment.

Another amendment has to do with third-party risks in motor accidents. Under the law as it stands ut present, a policy against thirdparty risks which comes into force must be taken into account in the general assets of a bankrupt estate, and its proceeds are not available to the third party who has suffered loss or damage. It will appeal to honorable members as unfair that the injured party should rank pari passu with other creditors. That defect is being cured.

The other group of major amendments deals with life policies. Under Part XII. of the act, which is availed of in all the States other than Western Australia and South Australia, the life policy of a bankrupt may be protected, and in the event of an assignment, a debtor can provide that his life policy shall be devoted to the assistance

Df his family. But under Part XI. of the act, which is availed of in South Australia and Western. Australia, a life policy falls in with the general assets of the estate, and is available to all the creditors.

The object of the amendments relating to life policies is to protect a life policy under Part XI. as it is protected under a sequestration and under Part XII.

These are the major alterations that are being made to the law. They have been introduced following upon strong representations by those associated with the administration of our bankruptcy law, and it is urgently desired that they shall be agreed to before the House rises. If honorable members will accept the amendments, I give an undertaking that in the event of it becoming necessary, after the House re-assembles, to introduce any other amendments consequent upon them, the Government will do so. The utmost efforts and fullest investigations have been made to ensure that the amendments now proposed are sound, and I ask the House, even at this late stage of the session, to’ allow them to go through. Their object, as I have said, is to alter the law in respect of deeds of inspectorship with the object of giving debtors a chance to recover their position; to protect trustees under deeds of assignment and deeds of inspectorship; to protect the interests of persons entitled to the benefits from a third-party-risk policy of a bankrupt; and to protect the position of certain debtors in regard to their life policies. I appeal to. honorable members to allow the measure to go through without delay.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Scullin) adjourned.

page 1276

WAR PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL 1932

Message recommending appropriation reported.

Tn committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I move -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for tlie purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of ‘ the Consolidated Revenue Fund a sum for war pensions.

This measure was brought down to enable the Commonwealth Government to meet its obligations in respect of war pensions. Ever since such pensions have been payable, appropriations of revenue, amounting in each instance to £10,000,000, have been made from time to time for this purpose, and any pensions approved by Parliament under the financial proposals for the year are paid out f this appropriation. The amount or incidence of pensions is not affected by the measure. The last appropriation was made in August, 1930, and on the 30th April last, only £1,483,795 was left. As that would not be sufficient to meet pension commitments until Parliament meets again, this further appropriation is necessary.

Mr. HOLLOWAY (Melbourne Ports) [3.3 j. - I have been informed that the officials of the Repatriation Department, acting upon instructions, have cut down sis much as possible the amount paid in pensions to soldiers’ dependants. Recent instructions have been so drastic that the officers themselves are somewhat ashamed to have to carry them out. Of course, they must obey their instructions to the letter, and I have no complaint against the officers who, from Mr. Ryan, the Chief Commissioner, down to the clerks, are an excellent body of men. I have in mind the case of a deceased soldier’s mother, who has for years been in receipt of a pension. Recently a set of questions was issued to pensioners, asking for information regarding their incomes, and because this lady answered the questions with extraordinary honesty, her pension has been stopped. She stated, in answer to a question, that sometimes she received meals and lodging free from relatives, and for this reason the department stopped her pension of 15s. 6d. a week. I do not think that it was ever intended that such action should be taken. The officers of the department, of course, have no choice, but they assured me that, had the woman not given the information, her pension would not have been affected. Old-age pensioners, and others in receipt of pensions, particularly elderly people, frequently visit their relatives, and have a meal and a night’s lodging free. Things are getting to a pretty bad state, however, if that is to be taken into consideration in determining whether or not a person is entitled to receive a pension.

Another case which has been brought under my notice involves the position of women whose husbands have disappeared.

This, on the face of it, looks as though the wife has been deserted, but other considerations may be involved. The case to which I refer concerns an excellent family; the soldier had a good record, and was a man of excellent character. After he returned from the war he developed tuberculosis, and although he used to be a fine physical specimen, standing 6 ft. 2 in. in height, he wasted away almost to a skeleton. 2Tine year3 ‘ago he disappeared. He was last seen by the officers of the Repatriation Department when he called to collect his pension at the St. Kilda barracks. Since his disappearance, of course, his pension has been held at the office according to the requirements of the law, and his wife has not been able to get a penny of it. She asked me to try to get a portion of the pension, at least. I put it to the officers that, in the ordinary course of things, if the man had continued to draw his pension, some of it, at any rate, would have been spent by him in the support of his wife and children. They admitted that that was so, and that if they were allowed to take a common-sense view of the matter, they would undoubtedly pay part of the pension to the wife, but the law would not - permit them to do so. The act says that the pension belongs to the soldier, and must be paid to him. If he cannot come to collect his pension, it cannot be paid to any one else. I suppose that provision is necessary to protect the department from fraud. In this case, however, the belief is that the husband disappeared because he did not wish to be a burden on his wife and family. He had nothing to gain by his disappearance, because he ceased to draw his pension. I have gone into the matter with the State AttorneyGeneral, as well as with the Repatriation Department, with a view to having the woman declared a widow, or enabling her to obtain a divorce. But although either of those things might be done, she would still not be able to draw the pension. She would become eligible to receive the money only if it were certified that her husband had died as the result of war injuries, or of illness arising out of his war service. I trust that the Government will take steps to meet cases such as these.

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– In regard to the first case raised by the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway), it is conceivable that the administration made a blunder, although I would not make such a charge against an efficient administration. The Minister in charge of the department would be .only too pleased to discuss cases with honorable members with a view to reaching a satisfactory settlement. The second case cited by the honorable member would involve an amendment of the law to provide a remedy. The Government is prepared to study cases arising out of the administration of the Repatriation Department, to see whether some general principles might not be deduced to govern an amendment of the act, so as to enable the administration to deal with anomalies.

Mr MCGRATH:
Ballarat

– I ask the Minister to give consideration to this case: A returned soldier has for some time been ill in an institution, and there is no hope of his recovery. His pension has been mounting up during his illness, and now amounts to £900. Although his mother is destitute, she is not able to draw one penny of this money. Gould not something be done to allow a portion, at any rate, to he paid to the mother?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I shall look into the matter to see what can be done.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended, and resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Mr. Lyons do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Bruce, and passed through all stages without amendment or debate.

page 1278

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS APPROPRIATION BILL 1932

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) proposed -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund a Bum for invalid and old-age pensions.

Mr JAMES:
Hunter

.- I draw attention to the unfortunate circumstances of migrants of mature age who come to Australia and are without means. Many of them were in receipt of pensions when in the Old Country, but their pension rights cease on arrival here. Is it not possible to bring about. reciprocal arrangements similar to those which exist concerning the payment of war pensions to ex-imperial soldiers domiciled in Australia? I have in mind a number of cases, and particularly that of an old lady living at Kurri Kurri who came to Australia in 1924, and is now 80 years of age. She is suffering hardship because she is unable to obtain a pension, although she drew one when in the Old Country. Will the Assistant. Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) interview the imperial authorities when he goes to London as Resident Minister with a view to establishing the necessary reciprocal arrangements?

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The adoption of a reciprocal basis with regard to invalid and old-age pensions has already received consideration. I discussed it with the authorities when I was last in Great Britain, as also did the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin). The difficulty is that we in Australia could not enter into a reciprocal arrangement on the understanding that we should pay the pensions of any British person who migrated to Australia if the British authorities extended similar consideration to Australians who go to live in Great Britain, because the flow of aged migrants is principally from Great Britain to Australia. Australia would be assuming the liability, and the British Government laying it down. The proposal that I stressed, but to which the British authorities would not agree, . was that the British Government should extend to British migrants in Australia any benefits to which they were . entitled in the Homeland. I was informed that the British Government had a sufficient obligation in meeting the. requirements of those resident in Great Britain, and it could not extend these privileges to persons who had migrated. I am afraid that the arrangement that the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. James) visualizes is impossible of attainment, unless Australia carries the whole burden. Our invalid and old-age benefits are most generous, and if we granted them to any migrant from the Old Country we should merely he extending an invitation to persons of mature years to spend their old age in Australia.

Mr James:

– I do not suggest that,

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– When I am in London 1 shall again take up the matter with the British authorities.

Mr JAMES:
Hunter

– I call attention to the hardship that is inflicted upon a migrant who comes to Australia, and has to leave his aged parents behind, simply because he cannot afford to bring them here if they are debarred from receiving a pension. I remember the sacrifice that was made by my own mother, who left her parents in the Homeland in order to accompany her brothers to Australia. The result is that migrants save sufficient money to return to the Old Country to see their parents before they die, and the shipping companies are the principal beneficiaries. I think that the British Government should adopt a humanitarian attitude in this matter.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Mr. Lyons do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Bruce, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

This is a bill to appropriate £10,000,000 from the Consolidated Revenue Fund for the payment of invalid and old-age pensions. Similar appropriations are made from time to time. The moneys are needed towards meeting commitments which will fall due before the House resumes.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

– I wish to bring under -the notice of the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) the case of a lady who has had her pension reviewed and reduced. In its review, the department took into account a life policy that the lady had taken out in order to defray funeral expenses when she died. I do not know whether the department has received instructions from the Government to curtail pensions, or whether this action is consistent with the policy of the Government, but I hope that the Assistant Treasurer will either indicate that instructions to this effect have been given, or that the department has acted beyond the powers conferred upon it.

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– The Government has issued no instructions regarding the administration of the Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act other than those which have been observed by all Commonwealth governments - that the act shall be administered sympathetically and in the most generous manner possible.

Mr Ward:

– I am not satisfied with the reply of the Assistant Treasurer. Is the Government prepared to allow the department to take into consideration assets such as I have referred to when assessing pensions? Further, does the Minister believe that the department has acted in an equitable manner?

Mr BRUCE:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– What assets an applicant for a pension is entitled to have is determined by the act. Naturally, if the act be administered equitably, an insurance policy such as that referred to must be considered an asset. I shall discuss the matter with the Commissioner of Pensions.

Bill agreed to and reported without amendment.

Report adopted, and bill read a third time.

page 1280

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

Messages from the Governor-General reported, transmitting Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure and Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for Additions, New Works, Buildings, &c., for the financial year ended the 30th June, 1931.

In committee of Supply (Consideration of Governor-General’s message) :

Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I move-

That the. following further sums be granted to His Majesty to defray the charges for the year 1030-31 for the several services hereunder specified, viz. : -

Part I. - Departments and Services - Other than Business Undertakings and Territories of the Commonwealth.

That there be granted to His Majesty to the service of the year 1930-31 for the purposes of additions, new works, buildings, &c, a further sum not exceeding £4,091.

Possibly, these Estimates could be more appropriately handled by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin), because the expenditure to which they relate was incurred while hig Government was in office, but I am pleased to be in a position to render this service to him. The principal cause for the substantial increase in expenditure is that during the year 1930-31 the exchange rate rose from £6 to £30 10s. That increase had not been budgeted for, and had to be met during the year from the Treasurer’s advance. Exchange accounted for £1,571,000 of the total amount of £1,830,977 covered by these Estimates. The Government is now seeking parliamentary approval of this expenditure. The other items included in the Estimates are numerous but relatively small.

Motions agreed to.

Resolutions reported.

Standing Orders suspended, and resolutions adopted.

Resolutions of Ways and Means founded upon resolutions of Supply reported and adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Bruce and Mr. Fenton do prepare and bring in hills to carry out the foregoing resolutions.

page 1280

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION BILL 1930-31

Bill brought -up by Mr. Bruce, and passed through all its stages without amendment or debate.

page 1280

SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (WORKS AND BUILDINGS) BILL 1930-31

Bill brought up by Mr. Bruce, and passed through all its stages without amendment or debate.

page 1280

LOAN (UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF WORKS) BILL (No. 2)

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of GovernorGeneral’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Lyons) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation »f revenue and moneys be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to amend the Loan (Unemployment Relief Works) Act 1932.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended, and resolution adopted.

Ordered - ““That Mr. Lyons and Mr. Fenton do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution

Bill brought up by Mr. Lyons, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr LYONS:
Prime Ministor and Treasurer · Wilmot · UAP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The existing legislation provides that certain sums are to be made available by the Commonwealth to the States for the relief of unemployment, and provision is mads for the Commonwealth itself to raise the amounts and to make them available either to the States or, through the States, to the local governing bodies, but under this bill the Commonwealth, instead of actually borrowing the money, will allow the local governing bodies to raise loans, and the Commonwealth and the State Governments will contribute their share of the interest. The object of the bill is to extend the purposes for which the unemployment relief moneys may be used and to enable the employment councils to use the money in the most advantageous way. It neither increases nor diminishes the total amount provided under the original act. The scheme originally contemplated the raising of £3,000,000 as follows:-

The money was to be borrowed by the Governments shown, from or through the Commonwealth Bank on terms approved by the Loan Council in April - principally by the issue of treasury-bills discounted at 4 per cent. It was to be expended by the State Governments - except in New South Wales - or granted or lent to local bodies to be expended by them on substantial works, preferably reproductive. The scheme is to be amended by providing that, as far as possible, the money shall be raised by local governing bodies and other statutory authorities constituted under Commonwealth and State laws. Such borrowings are to be arranged by the statutory bodies directly from or through the Commonwealth Bank, and these bodies are to be responsible for the repayment of the principal amount. Where the local bodies cannot raise loans in that way, they may be assisted by the Government concerned by grants or by loans or by both - the object being that the money is to be spent principally through the local bodies rather than through government departments. Where moneys are borrowed directly by statutory bodies in New South Wales, the Commonwealth may contribute towards the interest to an extent not exceeding 4 per cent, per annum. Where moneys are borrowed by statutory bodies in other States, the Commonwealth and the State concerned may each contribute towards the interest to the extent of not more than 2 per cent, per annum. As far as possible, moneys expended under the scheme are to be expended on reproductive works in a manner calculated to provide the greatest possible amount of employment. Moneys are to be expended only on approved works to provide relief to persons out of employment. In New South Wales the works must be recommended by the employment council established by the Commonwealth, and must be approved by the Treasurer of the Commonwealth. In the other States the works must be recommended by the employment council established by the State and must be approved by the State Treasurer. The State employment council includes two representatives of the Commonwealth. No Commonwealth moneys are to be expended on any work unless that work lias been approved by both representatives of the Commonwealth on the State employment council, or unless that work has been approved by the Commonwealth Treasurer. The employment councils will secure such information as they deem necessary in regard to each proposed work. In New South Wales the employment council will submit to the Commonwealth Treasurer full particulars of works recommended by the council. At the same time the employment council will forward particulars of the works to the Governor of the Commonwealth Bank, Sydney. Already it has sent in a list of works for approval, and those works will be under the consideration of the Government immediately. When the Commonwealth Treasurer approves of any works recommended by the employment council, he will advise the Governor of the Commonwealth Bank, Sydney, of those works. In the other States the employment councils will submit to the State Treasurer particulars of the works recommended by them. On any of these works being approved, the State Treasurer will submit particulars of them to the local manager of the Commonwealth Bank, and to the Commonwealth Treasurer. In forwarding these particulars the State Treasurer will advise regarding each work whether it has been approved by both representatives of the Commonwealth Government on the employment council. Works which may be recommended and approved will include -

  1. Works to be undertaken by local governing bodies and other statutory authorities out of moneys to be directly borrowed by them from or through the Commonwealth Bank. The terms of all loans for such “ bodies will require the approval of the Commonwealth Treasurer.
  2. Works to be undertaken by local governing bodies and other statutory authorities out of moneys lent to them by the States - or in New South Wales by the Commonwealth - or out of moneys granted to them by the States - or in New South Wales by the Commonmonwealth - or partly out of moneys lent and partly out of moneys granted.
  3. Works to be undertaken by farmers and others out of moneys to be” lent to them by the States - or in the case of New South Wales by the Commonwealth.
  4. Works to be undertaken by Commonwealth or State Governments out of moneys borrowed by them under this scheme.

In any case, where money is lent by the Commonwealth in New South Wales, any interest payable by the person or body to whom the money is lent, and any repayments in respect of that money, are to be payable to the Commonwealth. Where similar loans are made by a State out of Commonwealth moneys, any repayment of principal to the State or any payment of interest to the State is to be repaid by the State to the Commonwealth.

Neither the State nor the Commonwealth will seek to draw moneys from the Commonwealth Bank in respect of approved works for which the Commonwealth Bank has undertaken to raise the necessary moneys, except as and when the moneys are actually required for the purpose of expenditure on the works.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– What is the amount for New South Wales?

Mr LYONS:

– The amount provided by the Commonwealth is £600,000. We are hoping that in respect of practically every work, the local governing body concerned will find at least the materials, so that the unemployed will receive the full benefit of the money that we are contributing. To the extent that the local governing bodies contribute in that direction, the grant of £600,000 will be increased, but, if at a later stage whatever government may he elected in New South Wales is prepared to join the scheme on the same basis as the other States, Commonwealth moneys will bc subsidized £] for £1 by that State as in the case of the other States.

Mr HUTCHIN:
Denison

.- J was glad to hear the assurance given by the Assistant Treasurer (Mr. Bruce) to the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Scullin) that the removal of unemployment would be in the forefront of the

Government’s programme, and that there would be no loss of momentum to the operation of the general scheme. At present, employment councils are expending certain sums of money on what are commonly known as works. We are all agreed that that is part of a short range policy, and we are looking forward with confidence, in view of the utterances of the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons), and of the Assistant Treasurer, to the development at the Premiers Conference of something in the nature of a long-range policy. When speaking on unemployment previously, I stated that we must develop some form of land policy to assist in the absorption of the unemployed. It is becoming, more and more apparent as time goes on that the secondary industries will not be able to employ not only their former employees, but also others who wish to enter the industrial field. One difficulty in Australia, which is perhaps not generally recognized, is that many of our farms are too large, not too small, [f we are to have a better balance of population between the cities and the country, wo must intensify settlement in the more favoured areas of Australia - the coastal regions - where there is plenty of room for useful work to be done. In Tasmania areas that .were formerly under cultivation are now reverting to bush and blackberry. Surely the Tasmanian Government, under the inspiration given by the Commonwealth Government, could evolve some scheme which, although small :tt the beginning, would afford practical relief. I do not think that the difficulty of providing finance would be insuperable. On the mainland, in districts like Gippsland, for instance, and along the coast of New South Wales and Queensland as far north as the tropics, there are almost limitless possibilities for useful land settlement schemes which, if rightly handled, would absorb large numbers of people, particularly the younger people. I urge upon the Government the desirability, at r.lie Premiers Conference, of commencing a long range policy of development. That is absolutely essential if we are to make a continuous effort for the removal of unemployment.

Mr GANDER:
Reid

.- It appears that under this proposal, New South Wales will not receive more than £600,000, and as the unemployed in that State now number 100,000, it seems that they will receive not more than £6 each during the winter months. The Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) has pointed out that local governing bodies can borrow additional sums, but I imagine that they can borrow at any time, quite apart from this bill.

Mr Lyons:

– Not without paying the full rate of interest.

Mr GANDER:

– That may be so. When I was an alderman in the Newtown Council, the State Government advanced it £2,000 free of interest for two years, and the council also received £1,500 from the last Federal Government. Probably over 85 per cent, of that money was distributed in wages for the relief of unemployment. Certain parks at Trangie are under the control of trustees, and I understand that the local governing authorities wish to obtain, some of the money to be advanced under this bill. I fail to see why it should be necessary for a shire council to dispense with the services of trustees before it can obtain money through the unemployment relief council. I should like to have the position cleared up, in order to set at rest the minds of the local authorities at Trangie, who desire to make useful additions to the local parks. The Government should not limit New South Wales to the proposed expenditure of £600,000.

Mr Lyons:

– That is merely the sum to be made available by the Commonwealth. Local bodies can raise more money, if they so desire.

Mr GANDER:

– Will the Commonwealth Bank be willing to provide further advances?

Mr Lyons:

– Yes, on sound propositions.

Mr GANDER:

– Every shire and municipal council in New South Wales is a- sound proposition. The whole of the £f!00,000 to be made available could be absorbed by the municipal authorities in my electorate.

Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wilmot · UAP

– The matter referred to by the honorable member for Reid (Mr. Gander) is purely one of local concern. All we are concerned about in considering this bill is the amount which the Commonwealth Government proposes to make available, to the States. New South Wales is to receive a larger sum than any of the other States, and the local bodies may, in addition, raise any sums that may be required for augmenting relief work. If sound schemes are submitted, the Government will do all it can to help local bodies to raise further sums through the Commonwealth Bank for the carrying out of those works. The honorable member for Reid is rather optimistic in saying that every shire council in New South Wales is in a sound position. On the contrary, a large number of municipal and “shire councils cannot raise a single pound towards financing the relief schemes which have been submitted to the Commonwealth Government. If work is to bo done in those districts, the Commonwealth will have to provide the whole of the necessary funds. The Government has already advanced over £80,000, so it is making money available actually as a grant, because it has to find the whole of the interest. The Government does not desire the unemployed in certain districts to be left without relief, and thus to be placed under a disadvantage compared with unemployed in other localities.

Mr Nelson:

– What separate relief is to be provided for unemployed in Commonwealth territories ?

Mr LYONS:

– That matter is under consideration, but we have not yet decided what sum shall be made available. The various branches of the Department of the Interior are now conferring as to the best means of meeting the situation.

Mr Gander:

– If the Water and Sewerage Board desired to borrow a sum of money under this bill, could that be done ? ,

Mr LYONS:

– Unfortunately, that body is not in a position to finance any additional loan. Under the arrangements already made, a certain sum is available to that body, hub the Commonwealth Government will have to contribute 4 per cent. of the interest, in order to make the loan possible. The board will have to pay 1 per cent., and also make a contribution to the sinking fund.

The honorable member for Denison (Mr. Hutchin) referred to the need for a long-range policy, and I can assure him that the Government will not let up on that aspect of the matter. Land settlement for the absorption of unemployed is primarily a problem for the States, but every effort will be made to bring about complete co-operation between the Commonwealth and the State authorities.

Mr Gabb:

– Has an effort already been made in that direction?

Mr LYONS:

– That is being done under the present emergency scheme. Some of the States have under consideration land settlement proposals that will provide relief works. These matters have been considered at the Premiers Conference in the past, and they will he taken up again.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- Is the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) satisfied that the new sub-section proposed to be added to section 5 of the principal act is constitutional? Provision is there made for a special payment to be made to the State of New South Wales.

Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wilmot · UAP

– It was necessary to make special provision in the case of that State. In the other States, councils appointed by the States will recommend approval or rejection of proposals for relief works; but, in New South Wales, an employment council appointed by the Commonwealth will operate. I am not prepared to say whether this action is constitutional, but nobody will contest the. right of the Commonwealth to make money available for the relief of unemployment through a local governing body particularly when the State Government is anxious to utilize the money.

Bill agreed to, and reported without amendment.

Report adopted, and hill read a third time.

page 1285

TARIFF PROPOSALS (No. 5) 1932

Customs, Special, and Excise Duties

In Committee of Ways and Means:

Mr GULLETT:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Henty · UAP

.- I move -

That the Schedule tothe *Customs Tariff* 1921-1930 as proposed to be amended by the Customs Tariff Proposals introduced into the House of Representatives on the third day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, bo further amended as hereunder set out, and that on and after the twenty-fifth day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, at nine o'clock in the forenoon, reckoned according to standard time in the Territory for the Seat of Government, Duties of Customs be collected in pursuance of the *Customs Tariff* 1921-1930 as so amended. That, excepting by mutual agreement or until after six months' notice has been given tothe Government of the Dominion of New Zealand, nothing in this Resolution shall affect any goods theproduoe or manufacture of the Dominion of New Zealand entering the Commonwealth of Australia from' the Dominion of New Zealand.
That, in addition to the Duties of Customs collected in accordance with the Schedule to the Customs Tariff 1921-1030, as proposed to be amended by Tariff Proposals, there be imposed, on and after the twenty-fifth day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, at nine o'clock in the forenoon, reckoned according to standard time in the Territory for the Seat of Government, a special duty of Customs at the rate of fifty per centum of the amount of duty calculated in accordance with the duties imposed by the Customs Tariff 1921-1930 as proposed to be amended by the Tariff Proposals on such of the goods included in the items specified in the first column of the Schedule hereto as are specified in the second column of that Schedule which wore exported from the country of export after the third day of April, One thousand nine hundred and thirty, and which are entered for home consumption on and after the said twenty-fifth day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two ; That in this Resolution " Tariff Proposals " shall mean tho Tariff Proposals introduced into the House of Representatives on the third day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, and shall include any amendment of those proposals and any Tariff Proposal introduced into the House of Representatives subsequent to that date ; and That, excepting by mutual agreement or until after six months' notice has been given to the Government of tho Dominion of New Zealand, nothing in this resolution shall affect any goods the produce or manufacture of the Dominion of New Zealand entering the Commonwealth of Australia from the Dominion of New Zealand. That the Schedule to the *Excise Tariff* 1921-1928 as proposed to be amended by the Excise Tarra" Proposals introduced into the House of Representatives on the twenty -fifth' day of February, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, be further amended as hereunder set out, and that on arid after the twenty-fifth day of May, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-two, at nine o'clock in the forenoon, reckoned according to Stan .lard time in the Territory for the Seat of Government, Duties of Excise be collected in pursuance of the *Excise Tariff* 1921-1928 as so amended. The duties provided in the schedule just tabled are being imposed almost entirely for revenue purposes. As the House will be going into recess for some little time, the Government has decided to introduce the customs portion of the budget pro- posals now, for obvious reasons. It is regretted that it is necessary to impose further duties in order to increase the revenue, but that is unavoidable, and the schedule has been tabled now so that the duties shall operate for the whole financial year, and not for only a part of it. The goods on which increased customs revenue duties are being imposed are - >Wireless valves. > >Clocks and watches (excepting wristlet watches ) . > >Clock and watch movements. > >Cigarette papers and cigarette tubes of class sold direct to the public. > >Goods of the classes which may he prescribed under Tariff Items 174, 404, and 415a and which ure for such use as, in the opinion of the Minister, does not justify the application of tlie rates under the items mentioned. The excise duty on petrol, honorable members will notice, is being increased by *l$d.* to 5£d. per gallon. At present the excise duty on petrol refined within Australia is 4d. per gallon, aim the import duty on refined petrol from overseas is 7d. per gallon. It has always appeared to me that the margin of 3d. was too great. This subject has been investigated by the Tariff Board, which has recommended that l-£d. per gallon is ample protection to cover the cost of refining within Australia. This new duty will be collected on about 19,000,000 gallons of petrol per annum, taking the present output of the Australian refineries as a basis, and it will yield an additional revenue of over £100,000 a year. To throw some light on the cost of refining, I remind honorable members that the f.o.b. price of refined petrol in oil-producing countries is less than 3d. per gallon, which covers the cost of mining, transportation to the coast, and refining. In these circumstances, I am sure that honorable members will agree that the margin of 3d. hitherto allowed was extravagant. The Government had also to consider that, if it encouraged the general refining of petrol in Australia on an excessively profitable basis, the time would soon arrive when sufficient petrol would be refined here to meet our requirements. We have no objection to all the petrol being refined here, but it should be on a fair margin. If the margin were excessive it would tend to keep up the price of petrol in Australia, and rob the revenue. At present Australia is importing between 160,000,000 and 170,000,000 gallons of petrol per annum, and the loss of 3d. per gallon on that quantity, if it were refined in Australia, would be about £2,000,000. An excise duty of Id. per packet on cigarette papers, and Id. per 60 cigarette tubes, is being imposed. At first glance this may seem an insignificant impost, but a phenomenal development has occurred in recent years in the purchase and use of fine-cut tobacco for the making of cigarettes by individuals. The Government thinks that there is a good opportunity to increase the revenue lucratively in this direction. The annual consumption of pipe tobacco in Australia is between 13,000,000 and 14,000,000 lb. So far as we can discover, about half that quantity of tobacco is made up as " fine-cut," and is consumed by smokers who make their own cigarettes. The reasonableness and equity of this new impost cannot be gainsaid. The total impost in customs and excise duties on manufactured cigarettes, in which there is practically no Australian-grown leaf, is 12s. Sd. per lb. The impost on fine cut tobacco which is used for rolling into cigarettes would be 7s. 6d. per lb. if it were wholly imported, and 4s. 6d. per lb. if it were wholly Australian. Assuming that the cigarettes made by individuals contained a blend of imported and local leaf, the total impost on them would be about 6s. per lb. It will be seen, therefore, that the smoker who makes his own cigarettes out of fine-cut tobacco contributes only about half as much to the revenue as the man who buys his cigarettes ready.made. In these circumstances this relatively small increase in the tax is justifiable. Combined with" the increased customs duty on these goods the duty is estimated to yield an additional £200,000 in revenue annually. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr Gregory: -- Has the Minister overlooked the recent big reduction in the excise on cigars? {: .speaker-KFS} ##### Mr GULLETT: -- I am not dealing with cigars at the moment; but. the truth about the cigar' position is that the huge falling off in the consumption of cigars has made the tax on that class -of smoking practically valueless from a revenue point of view. An excise duty of 6d. per gross of boxes of matches is also being imposed. It is unfortunate that taxation of this kind should be necessary ; but in our present circumstances it is unavoidable. I do not think that this new impost will be regarded as outrageous by those who know the position in regard to matches in other countries. In Canada, for instance, the duty, which is on a cent basis, is equivalent to 2s. Id. per gross. I do not suggest that these additional imposts will not increase prices to some extent; but the addition of 6d. on a gross of boxes of matches should not add to the conventional selling price of Id. per box, though it may increase the bulk price slightly. The fixed rates of duty now being imposed on wireless valves exceeds the deferred rates which had been postponed to the 1st July, 1932. This duty is definitely for revenue and not protective purposes, and should be so regarded by any manufacturers who may be contemplating the manufacture of valves in Australia. I am glad that we appear to be approaching the time when valves will be manufactured here. When the manufacture of them is undertaken here on a commercial basis an excise duty will be imposed and an adjustment will be made between excise and customs duties. The item dealing with the admission under by-law of goods which are at present, or which may be prescribed, under tariff items 174, 404, and 415a, makes provision for the obtaining of an additional amount of revenue. Broadly speaking, it is the intention of the Government to prescribe under this item machines and machinery, raw materials and semi-finished goods for use in the production or manufacture of luxury and semi-luxury goods. The whole of the existing by-laws under the items referred to will be reviewed with the object of ascertaining whether any of the goods at present prescribed could, without inflicting hardship, be called upon to contribute to the revenue. The new rates under this item are, generally, 5 per cent, higher than those at present operating. The Government estimates that about £500.000 additional revenue will be obtained, as a result of these new imposts. Honorable members will recognize that, in times like these, it is extraordinarily hazardous to venture an estimate of the increased revenue which may be obtained, but we think that we are safe in placing the figure at £500,000. Included in the schedule are three items upon which the duty has been increased for protective purposes. They are almond kernels, canary seed, and cork board. In respect of these items, the Government is following the recommendations of the Tariff Board, but the board has not been consulted regarding items on which revenue duties have been imposed. That is a matter of Government policy, aud I understand that the board has requested that it should not be asked to make recommendations in regard to what are purely revenue imposts. The duty ob almond kernels has been restored to the old level in accordance with the vote taken in this chamber last week. I accept the verdict of the committee, and have taken the earliest opportunity to restore the duty. However, inasmuch as the duty places a heavy impost on 75 per cent, of the kernels and almond products used in this country, I shall from time to time, when the Australian pack has been completely cleared, explore the possibility of giving the manufacturers some relief by way of by-law. The increased duty on canary seed is in accordance with the Tariff Board's recommendation. I am not quite satisfied with the position of this small industry. I remind the farmers of Queensland, who have now obtained this very generous measure of assistance, that they have an obligation to supply, as far as possible;, the whole of Australia's requirements in this product. For many years they have not produced anything like the whole of Australia's requirements. Last year they were handicapped, I know, by drought and other difficulties, but the fact remains that the Queensland crop was only 60© tons, while Australia's consumption was 1,500 tons. A little while ago I removed the embargo on canary seed, having first ascertained that the Queensland crop had been sold at the fixed price of £32 10s. a ton. The Tariff Board recommends that the duty be increased from 7s. 6d. a cental to 15s. It is a very generous increase, and I hope that the growers will respond by increasing their production. The duty on cork board has been varied in accordance with the amended recommendation of the Tariff Board, which has made a frank declaration that had it, at the 'time it made its previous inquiry, been in possession of all the facts now available, it would have recommended the duties which have been imposed. These duties, however, are substantially below those which were in force under the last Government's tariff schedule, but they are, I am pleased to say, acceptable to the manufacturers. The special duty resolution which I have also moved, exempts from special duty a further batch of goods. In all, twelve tariff items are exempted from the duty, and this action is in keeping with the promises made by the Government chat the restrictions imposed for the purpose of rectifying the adverse balance of trade would be lifted as soon as possible. The prohibition imposedon the importation of many lines of goods was lifted by proclamation issued on Thursday last. Since this Government assumed office the number of prohibited lines has been reduced from 78 to 24, while the number of items subject to special duty has been reduced from 58 to 36. Progress reported. {: .page-start } page 1291 {:#debate-36} ### CRIMES BILL Message received from the Senate inti mating that it had agreed to the amendments made by the House of Representatives in this bill. {: .page-start } page 1291 {:#debate-37} ### BANKRUPTCY BILL Debate resumed from page 1276. {: #debate-37-s0 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931 -- *by leave* - I desire, on behalf of the Government, to make a suggestion with regard to this measure. Honorable members who have studied the bill will agree that it is certainly an improvement on the existing act. In many respects it tightens up existing provisions, and if it were put into law it would be a useful measure to have on the statutebook. At the sametime, the Government recognizes that it is desirable that honorable members should have an opportunity of examining the bill thoroughly, and particularly its effect on our bankruptcy legislation in general. The Government suggests that the bill now before the House should be allowed to go through as it stands, and the Government undertakes to appoint a committee, representative of all sections in the House, to examine the measure fully, and report to the House later. The Government further undertakes to allow this committee's report to be debated fully, and, if it is desired to amend the act further, an opportunity will be given to honorable members to bring forward their proposed amendments. {: #debate-37-s1 .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra -- I recognize that some of the proposed amendments in the Bankruptcy Bill are urgent. It is a very technical matter, and time is needed for a complete examination of the measure. The suggestion of the Government is a reasonable one. On the assurance of the Government that a committee will be appointed to inquire into bankruptcy legislation, and that the House will have an opportunity of considering the committee's report, and of proposing further amendments, I am prepared to agree to the Government's proposal. I understand that it will not he necessary for a majority of the House to request that amending legislation be brought down. Even if a minority is convinced that a major alteration should be made, the House will, I understand, be given an opportunity of considering proposals to that effect. {: #debate-37-s2 .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN:
Perth .- As one who has taken a great deal of interest in bankruptcy legislation, I support the suggestion of the Assistant Treasurer **(Mr. Bruce),** and appreciate the attitude taken up by the Leader of the Opposition **(Mr. Scullin)The** chief amendment contained in this bill is urgently needed in the interests of those engaged in rural industries. Without it many farmers will be driven off their land, probably to join the ranks of the unemployed. The House may, I think, safely accept the assurance of the Assistant Treasurer, and, in the meanwhile, pass the bill as it stands. I have studied the measure carefully, and it represents a substantial instalment of the amendments which ought to be made. {: #debate-37-s3 .speaker-JNP} ##### Mr BAKER:
Oxley .- I was one of those who protested against the adjournment of the debate on this measure, but I am willing to accept the undertaking of the Government that the subject will be re-introduced into the House when the committee has completed its deliberations. Then, if further amendments are necessary, we shall be able to propose them. {: #debate-37-s4 .speaker-KFK} ##### Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
Darling Downs , - I am naturally interested in proposals to amend our bankruptcy legislation, because I was entrusted with the preparation of the original measure, and of submitting it to this House some years ago. Upon this work the law officers were mainly engaged. The offer of the Assistant Treasurer **(Mr. Bruce)** is a reasonable one. I have studied the bill, and I realise that it would be impossible for the House to give the measure adequate consideration in a few hours. Many of the proposed amendments are of an urgent character, and the proposal of the Government should meet with the approval of honorable members. I presume that the Government will assist the. committee which is to be appointed by placing before it the reports and evidence in the possession of the department. The promise that such a committee will be appointed ought to facilitate the passage of this legislation through the House. The important thing is to make the necessary and urgent amendments. Obviously, a new measure, dealing comprehensively with bankruptcy, and substituting for the State law a Commonwealth act - a measure that is intimately connected with the commercial life of the community - must in its working reveal deficiencies and need amendment. I hope that -an invitation will be extended, not only to chambers of commerce and trustees, but also to the whole trading community, to give their opinions on this legislation, for, after all, we have to consider the debtor, as well as the creditor, when framing a measure of this kind. {: #debate-37-s5 .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr GREGORY:
Swan .- The Government of Western Australia, and, I believe, also that of South Australia, has passed legislation for the protection of farmers who have suffered seriously during the past few years, and JI have been specially requested by the Western Australian Minister for Lands to urge the Government to provide that this legislation will co-operate with the State act along those lines. I hope that the Minister in charge of the bill will be able to give me an assurance that that will be done. {: #debate-37-s6 .speaker-KFW} ##### Mr GUY:
Bass .- I realize that this is important and necessary legislation, and I have no desire to impede its passage. There is one anomaly that can be rectified with little difficulty. The present law adequately protects the employees of a bankrupt by making them preferential creditors in respect of wages and salaries due to them. All leading callings and professions are also protected to some extent, with the exception of the commercial traveller working on a commission basis. When the principal act was brought up to date some years ago, the majority of commercial travellers were paid both salary and commission. Owing to the changed economic conditions, they are now mainly paid only on a commission basis. A good deal of inconsistency exists in this legislation, for, while a commercial traveller who is engaged by only one firm, and is paid on a commisison basis, receives protection, the same man, if engaged by several houses and paid on a commission basis, receives no protection at all. It is beyond my comprehension why the law protects the one and not the other. Commercial travellers are obliged to expend large sums of money to effect sales, and they are continually on the move. They receive their commission on a monthly basis, and if, during the interval between pays, their employer files his schedule, they are in an absolutely unprotected position. Those men are employees just as much as is any clerk or other worker. I trust that, when the committee is set up, it will give favorable consideration to the rectification of this anomaly. {: #debate-37-s7 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931 -- I understand that the matter referred to by the honorable member for Swan **(Mr. Gregory)** is now being investigated, and, although the necessary provision is not embodied in this bill, the matter will receive the consideration of the special committee, and be dealt with when the measure comes up for review. The same remarks apply to the case referred to by the honorable member for Bass **(Mr. Guy).** Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and - *by leave* - passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1298 {:#debate-38} ### COMMONWEALTH INSCRIBED STOCK BILL {:#subdebate-38-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-38-0-s0 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931 -- I move - >That the bill be now read a second time. > >Under the Commonwealth Conversion Act, it is provided that securities of certain kinds shall be issued, but under the Commonwealth Inscribed Stock Act there is power only for the issue of Commonwealth Government inscribed stock and treasury bonds. Under the first of these acts, Australian consolidated inscribed stock, Australian consolidated treasury bonds, debentures, and various other forms of security have been authorized, and this amendment is necessary to authorize the issue of these forms of security under the Inscribed Stock Act also. Clauses 1 to 10 make the necessary amendments in the principal act. Clause 11 provides for the issue, on the authority of the Loan Council, of stock which shall have the same immunity from income taxation as stock which was comprised in the conversion loan. The intention is that there shall be a limited extension of the privileges that were conferred when the consolidation took place. On the 12th September of last year, the Loan Council issued authority for sales over the counter of stock of this character. The Loan Council intends to use that power sparingly. So far it has done so only for counter sales, which are made almost entirely to superannuation and similar funds, which are almost universally tax free. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and - *by leave* - passed through its remaining stages wi thout amendment or debate, {: .page-start } page 1298 {:#debate-39} ### IMMIGRATION BILL {:#subdebate-39-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from the 20th May *(vide* page 1148), on motion by **Mr. Archdale** Parkhill - >That the bill be now read a second time. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time. *In committee:* Clauses 1 to 6 agreed to. Clause 7 - >After section eightB of the principal act the following section is inserted: - " 8ba. Where an order has been made under this act for the deportation of any person, the wife and dependent children of that person may be included in the order for deportationand thereupon the provisions of this act relating to deportation shall apply to the wife and dependent children.". {: #debate-39-s0 .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra .- This is really the major clause in the bill. The principal act already provides for deportation, but under this clause the wife and family of a person concerned may also be deported. In certain circumstances that would be a humane course, but a deportee may have married an Australian girl, an which case no deportation of his dependants should be possible without their consent. If the children are under age, the consent of both parents should be obtained before they are deported. I know that the clause says "may", but a great wrong and cruelty could be inflicted if it were harshly applied. I ask the Minister to give an assurance that in no circumstances will this power be used to send an Australian wife and her children out of the country against their will. {: #debate-39-s1 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
WarringahMinister for the Interior · UAP -- I give the assurance for which the Leader of the Opposition **(Mr. Scullin)** has asked. This bill deals exclusively with immigrants, and, therefore, its provisions would not apply to Australianborn women and children. Proposed section 8ba provides that the wife and dependant children of a deportee " may " also be included in the order for deportation; the power is deliberately made discretionary to allow provision to be made for the transport of the wife and children if they wish to accompany the husband. If, on the other hand, the wife does not desire to accompany her husband, the Government need not compel her to do so. {: #debate-39-s2 .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr GABB:
Angas .- I do not accept the assurance of the Minister for the Interior **(Mr. Parkhill),** nor do I agree with his statement of the law. An Australian-born woman who marries an alien takes the nationality of her husband, and if he is deported she also is liable to that punishment, and is not protected by her Australian birth. The Minister has stated that the Government has no intention to deport a woman who does not wish to go, but to make assurance double assure I move the addition of the following words : - >Provided that such deportation order shall not be made without her consent against a wife who was born in Australia. In his second-reading speech, the Minister stated that the wife of a deportee might remain in Australia if she was not likely to become a burden on the Government. Apparently his concern was not with her nationality, but only with the possibility of her being maintained by friends or relatives. When a man is imprisoned, the Government provides rations for his wife and children, and no Australianborn wife of a deportee should be sent out of the country because of her financial circumstances. My amendment, if agreed to, will give her the right to decide whether she will leave the country. {: #debate-39-s3 .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN:
Perth .- An Australian woman who marries an alien becomes an alien, and loses the' rights of citizenship which she formerly enjoyed by reason of her birth. Apart from that, the Government should consider the constitutionality of this measure. Under the principal act an Englishman who commits an offence within five years of his arrival in Australia may be deported, but his wife remains a British subject. This clause, however, gives the Government the right to deport her. I doubt whether that would be constitutional. Children born in Australia are Australian subjects, even though both parents are aliens, and I question whether the Government has the right to deport them. The amendment proposed by the honorable member for Angas **(Mr. Gabb)** would protect the Australian-born wife, but not the British or Australian wife of an English deportee. I imagine that the purpose of this clause is to assist the unfortunate wives of men who have incurred the penalty of deportation. Of course, if the wife herself has offended against this law she, too, is liable to deportation, but for her own offence, not that of her husband. {: .speaker-KMZ} ##### Mr Martens: -- If she disagrees with herhusband what will happen? {: .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN: -- She should not be deported ; but if a woman desires to accompany her husband, facilities should be provided by the Government. {: .speaker-JPV} ##### Mr BLAKELEY:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931 -- The Government desires to be able to compel the shipping company that brought her here to return her to the country whence she came. {: .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN: -- I am referring to Australianborn women; obviously the shipping company could not he fairly saddled with the responsibility of transporting them. No damage would be done to the bill if this clause were struck out ; failing that, I shall support the amendment. {: #debate-39-s4 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- I have already assured the committee that there is no danger of Australianborn women being deported, but to remove all possible doubt on this subject, I am prepared to accept an amendment to make proposed section 8ba read that the wife and children of the person deported may be included in the order for deportation " unless the wife and children were born in Australia". {: #debate-39-s5 .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES:
Hunter -- I am opposed to the deportation of a woman, whether born in Australia or elsewhere, for some offence committed by her husband. Sometimes no country will accept a deportee, and he spends months travelling from port to port, seeking an asylum. That happened to Paul Freeman during the war. A deportee's wife and children should not be compelled to roam the seven seas with him. The person who drafted this provision that because a man commits an offence against the arbitration law or the Crimes Act, his Australian wife and children may be deported, had a twisted mentality. {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr Archdale Parkhill: -- The honorable member's mentality is twisted. *He* has been assured half a dozen times that the Government does not propose to deport the wife against her will. {: .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES: -- TheMinister now states that he is prepared to exclude Australian-born wives and children from this drastic provision, but it will still apply to a wife horn in England. She will he deported with her husband. I can read nothing else in the amendment. It is a shame that a government which is supposed to be administering the law for the benefit of the people should be prepared to hit the unfortunate woman whose husband has committed some offence for which he is to be deported. I am reminded of these words which appear in the Scriptures : " The iniquities of the fathers shall be visited upon the children even unto the third and fourth generation ". In this case we are visiting the sins of the husband on his wife and children. The honorable member for Wentworth **(Mr. E. J. Harrison)** may scoff at the idea of some unfortunate woman being deported from this country. {: #debate-39-s6 .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! {: .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES: -- It is handy to get that statement into *Hansard,* so as to show the callousness of this Government and its supporters. I am entirely opposed to the amendment submitted by the Minister, and I should like the honorable member for Angas to widen the scope of his amendment so as to exclude from the operation of this provision all wives whose husbands may be deported.We know that a woman's life is hard enough in this world, particularly when she has children dragging at her knee, without being compelled to part from her husband. The amendment is utterly unsatisfactory, and I shall oppose it tooth and nail. {: .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr Gabb: -- I ask leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment - *by leave* - withdrawn. {: #debate-39-s7 .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN:
Perth .- I am not prepared to accept the amendment of the Minister. No honorable member is more anxious than I am to exclude the revolutionary from this country; but at no time should we be party to making any woman liable to deportation because of the sins of her husband. There is no justice in that at all. - This provision may apply to any class of woman. Quite a number of British women may be married to the class of persons who may be deported under this legislation. It frequently happens that a woman is anxious to be parted from her husband, because of his worthlessness. Therefore, if he is deported, she should not be compelled to accompany him. It has been suggested that my remarks are purely propaganda; but I submit that legislation of this character isputting propaganda into the mouths of those whose sympathies are with the revolutionaries. There is no necessity for this provision at all. The Minister has not even explained its value. {: .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr Marr: -- The Minister may exercise his discretion. {: .speaker-JVR} ##### Mr NAIRN: -- That is why I object to this clause. I know that it will not operate against a woman born in Australia, but a woman born outside Australia will be liable to deportation ifher husband is ordered to be deported.I urge the Minister to consider whether he should not drop the clause altogether. {: #debate-39-s8 .speaker-KHL} ##### Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936 -- I wish to make a suggestion to the Minister, because I think that he will be prepared to extend the scope of hit amendment if he sees some logic in the suggestions made to him. I ask how can he discriminate between the wife of one man and that of another ? For instance, he has tried to meet the objections of honorable members by agreeing that no Australian born woman shall be deported. But I contend that, in the case of a foreign-born woman who may have lived in Australia for fifteen or twenty years, and has a growing family, perhaps some children going to school, and others, perhaps, engaged to be married, a hardship would be inflicted upon her if she were compelled to leave this country just because her husband had been deported. That woman should be as much entitled to stay in Australia as the Australian-born wife of a deportee. I should like the Minister to accept an amendment which would make it voluntary on the part of the wife of any deportee to accompany her husband. {: .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr Marr: -- No person can be deported from Australia after five years' residence here. {: #debate-39-s9 .speaker-KHL} ##### Mr HOLLOWAY: -- In any case I do not think that a husband should be compulsorily separated from his wife or vice versa. {: .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr Scullin: -- Is the Minister sure that the qualification of five years residence applies to this clause? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr Archdale Parkhill: -- It applies not to this clause, but to the bill generally. {: .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr Scullin: -- Is it covered bythis clause ? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr Archdale Parkhill: -- Yes. {: #debate-39-s10 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- The real object of the clause is to ensure that the shipping company shall, if called upon, take deportees andtheir families back . to the country whence they came. The word " may " appears in the clause. If the wife and children of a deportee wish to stay here, they may do so. There is no compulsion upon the wife to accompany her husband. It may happen that she is a native of Great Britain, France, or Russia, and may want to return with her husband to her own people. The point at issue is not the deportation of women at all, because the wife of a deportee has the choice of accompanying her husband or remaining in Australia. That is the intention of this legislation. The express purpose of this provision is to make it compulsory on the part of the shipping companies to take deporteesback to their country of origin. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr Ward: -- Has the Minister any guarantee that the country of origin will admit persons who are deported from Australia ? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- The country of origin must admit the deportees. That is the position in respect of immigration laws throughout the world. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr Ward: -- What about the case of **Mr. Paul** Freeman? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- I do not know the facts of that case. {: .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr Scullin: -- There is no law compelling a country of origin to admit deportees from other countries. {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- A certain modification of the immigration laws has now been suggested by Great Britain. It is to the effect that where a man has been resident for a considerable period in another country after leaving Great Britain, that country shall be taken as his adopted country, and must accept the responsibility of his residence. That suggestion has not yet been accepted by this Government. It is merely under consideration. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr Gander: -- When a foreigner takes out naturalization papers in Australia, he becomes a citizen of this country. **Mr. ARCHDALE** PARKHILL.That is so; but if any person residing here brings himself under the deportation provision, he may, irrespective of his residential qualifications, be returned to his country of origin. {: .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr Scullin: -- The country of origin may refuse to admit him. {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- As a general rule the country of origin accepts deportees. Of course, there may be exceptions. This provision is to compel shipping companies who bring these people here to take them back to their country of origin, but it does not apply to Australianborn women. A woman who is a native of another country may remain in Australia, provided that she can show that she will not be a charge upon the Government. Of course she may desire to accompany her husband, and to return to her relatives. The security of the wives of deportees is amply safe-guarded by the amendment and the provision of the word " may " in the clause. The honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Nairn)** has dealt mainly with the question of the nationality of a woman after she marries a foreigner. That question does not arise under this legislation. {: .speaker-KNP} ##### Mr Maxwell: -- Suppose that a family in Australia includes one daughter born in England, and another born here? If the father were ordered to be deported, in the case of the daughter born in Australia the Minister would have the right to withhold consent to her deportation, but in the case of the other that right would be refused. **Mr. ARCHDALE** PARKHILL.No. It is optional whether these women remain in or leave Australia. {: .speaker-KNP} ##### Mr Maxwell: -- If that is so, the Minister will have to accept an amendment to that effect. {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- If an amendment is necessary to make the position quite clear, there is no reason why it should not be inserted in this clause. {: .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr Scullin: -Will the Minister consider altering the proposed new section by inserting, after the word "may", the words " with their consent " ? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- I am prepared to accede to that request, because it would then be left entirely to the persons concerned to say whether they would leave the country or remain here. {: #debate-39-s11 .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER:
Reid .- When a foreigner takes out naturalization papers in Australia, he becomes a British subject, and the Minister says that if he renders himself liable to deportation he must be returned to his own country ; but, supposing the authorities in the country of origin refused to take back a deported person, would the Minister permit him to return to Australia? Take the case of Paul Freeman- {: .speaker-KZF} ##### Mr Lane: -- - Ship him to Mexico! {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER: -- Would the honorable member for Barton **(Mr. Lane)** deport an Englishman, an Irishman, or a Scotsman to Mexico? Such action would be far too drastic. {: #debate-39-s12 .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr WARD:
East Sydney .- The honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Nairn)** seemed to clarify the position. Being a supporter of the Government, I suppose that the honorable member is aware of its intentions in this matter ; but I should like him to give a definition of revolutionary. George Washington was a revolutionary before he was regarded as a patriot. {: .speaker-KNP} ##### Mr Maxwell: -- I rise to a point of order. The clause deals entirely with the wife of a person who is to be deported. The whole question seems to be whether the wife should be compelled to accompany her husband, and the feeling of the committee seems to be that she should not be deported in such circumstances without her consent. {: #debate-39-s13 .speaker-KMZ} ##### The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Martens:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND -- I uphold the point of order. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr WARD: -- To me, as a member of the Labour party, this bill is entirely repugnant. It shows the inability of the Government to handle the internal situation, and its desire to deport those persons with whose ideas it does not agree. I shall vote against every clause. ' {: #debate-39-s14 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- The Government wishes to be quite fair in this matter, and, therefore, I move - >That after the: word " may " the words " if the wife so desires " be inserted!. That would leave the matter entirely at the option of the wife. {: #debate-39-s15 .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER:
Reid -- I am totally opposed to the principle of the bill. I am reminded of the words of Thomas Paine, who said - >My country is the world, and my religion is to do good. This measure provides for the very antithesis of good works. {: #debate-39-s16 .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra .- This clause, which was most objectionable, is now to be made acceptable. I do not accept the principle of deportation, and I shall certainly call for a division on the third reading of the bill; but I would not vote -against the clause as proposed to be amended, because I regard it as one of the redeeming features of the measure. It now provides that if the wife of a person who is to be deported wishes to be included in the deportation order, she may be permitted to leave the country in company with her husband. That is a humane provision. {: #debate-39-s17 .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES:
Hunter .- I am glad that the Minister has accepted the alteration suggested to him. If the wife of a person who is to be deported desires to accompany her husband, no impediment should be placed in her way. Although I am opposed to the principle of deportation, I accept this clause, as proposed to be amended. I claim that the measure is aimed entirely at the, working classes. Amendment agreed to. Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 8 (Duty to provide return passages). {: #debate-39-s18 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- The object of this clause is to place upon the shipping company which brought to Australia the wife and dependent children of a deported person, the responsibility of returning them to their native country. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr Gander: -- Suppose those shipping companies happen to have gone out of existence? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- It would then be necessary for the Government to bear the expense. Clause agreed to. Clause 9 (Arrest of persons liable to deportation). {: #debate-39-s19 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- The necessity for this provision recently arose in a case in which a man, after serving a sentence for a criminal offence, was released from prison before an order for his deportation could be given effect to. The ponce authorities are unwilling to put such a person iu custody without a warrant, unless there is statutory authority for it. This clause is required merely to provide the necessary machinery to carry out the law. A deportation order may have been signed because a certain person has been convicted of a crime of violence. In one case, a person fired shots through another man's hat, but did not kill him. An offence of that nature would be regarded as a crime of violence. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr Ward: -- Suppose a person was convicted of having a copy of the *Workers' Weekly* in his pocket? **Mr. ARCHDALE** PARKHILL.That would not be regarded as a sufficiently serious offence to justify deportation. The object of this clause is to deal with desperate criminals. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr Gander: -- Not persons accused of political crimes? {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL: -- No. {: #debate-39-s20 .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES:
Hunter .- The present Minister may be succeeded by another Minister who may place an entirely different interpretation on the meaning of this clause, under which it is proposed to insert the following new section in the act: - >Every officer may, without warrant, arrest any person reasonably supposed to be a person whose deportation has been ordered by the Minister in pursuance of this act, and no person shall resist or prevent such arrest. > >Penalty: One hundred pounds or imprisonment for six months. A measure was passed at 3.30 a.m. to-day making it possible to deport, on the order of the Attorney-General, executive officers of trade unions or any other organizations that may be declared by a judge to be unlawful associations. There would be power to arrest such persons on suspicion without warrant. The proposed new section will not apply merely to persons who have been imprisoned for acts of violence. Acts of violence are sometimes committed in consequence of intimidation in a time of industrial trouble. When the members of a union are locked out, as were the northern coalminers two years ago, and free labourers come along to take the bread out of the mouths of their wives and children, it is not to be wondered at if violence occurs. In such circumstances, if any one is arrested, it is invariably the unionist, and not the " scab." A man may be convicted of a crime of violence when, in point of fact, he was defending himself. We know that the members of the New Guard recently attacked **Mr. Garden,** and he had to defend himself. Crowds have recently attacked certain public speakers in Melbourne, on the Yarra Bank, and in Sydney, at the Trades Hall.' {: #debate-39-s21 .speaker-JOS} ##### The CHAIRMAN (Mr Bell: -- Order! The honorable member cannot proceed on these lines. He must confine his remarks to the clause. {: .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES: -- The Minister, in explaining the clause, said that it related only to persons convicted of crimes of violence. I am pointing out that persons may be forced to be violent in order to defend themselves. The Minister's interpretation of the clause is not objectionable, but a judge may interpret it very differently. I shall vote against the clause, because I think it is dangerous. {: #debate-39-s22 .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr WARD:
East Sydney .- I agree that there is nothing objectionable in the Minister's interpretation of this clause. {: .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr Archdale Parkhill: -- My interpretation is also the department's interpretation. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr WARD: -- That is all very well; but these provisions will have to be interpreted by judges, and their interpretation may be much wider than that of the Minister and his officers. There may be Englishmen, Irishmen, and Scotchmen in Australia to-day who were enticed to come here by glowing promises of abundance of work and good conditions. Naturally, many of these people, who to-day are without employment,, are feeling desperate, and in such a condition they may commit acts of violence for which they may be deported. I am. totally opposed to the deportation of my fellow citizens, and I shall not support the Government in its effort to pass this panic legislation. If certain honorable members opposite could be deported, it would be a different matter. An honorable member opposite has interjected that I may be deported. I am not afraid of that ; butI am afraid that the provisions of this measure may react most unexpectedly on certain people. I am not likely to be excited into committing an act of violence, nor are the unfortunate work less people of this country likely to subject me to violence, because they know very well that I am in deep sympathy with them, and am endeavouring to do *all* that I can to help them. I, and the members of the party to which I belong, will resist this provision and this bill as vigorously as possible, for the principle of deportation is totally repugnant to us. {: #debate-39-s23 .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER:
Reid .- I, also, am opposed to this clause. It is all very well for the Minister to say that it means this, that, or the other; but, as has been pointed out, it will ultimately be interpreted by a judge. I well remember that a gentleman who, as a Minister in a certain government, introduced a particular bill and piloted it through. Parliament, had subsequently to interpret its provisions as a Supreme Court judge. He then said, " When I introduced this bill I thought it meant so and so; but I now find that I was wrong." We have to anticipate the possibility of something like that happening in this case. The Minister has said that the provisions of this bill will not be operated in the case of political offences. . The unfortunate coal-miners, who were locked out on the northern coal-fields in circumstances outlined by the honorable member for Hunter **(Mr. James),** were incited to violence, and one miner was actually shot dead. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order ! The honorable member must confine his remarks to the clause, the provisions of which affect persons whose deportation has been ordered. He may not proceed to justify certain forms of violence. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER: -- Persons may be deported for crimes of violence,and I am pointing out that the clause provides that " no person shall resist or prevent " the arrest of any person whose deportation has been ordered. During the timberworkers' strike certain men were handled very roughly, and in days of turmoil that is always likely to happen. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order! The honorable member cannot be permitted to justify violence. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER: -- I shall oppose the clause to the utmost. Question - That the clause be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. Bell.) AYES: 30 NOES: 13 Majority 17 AYES NOES Question so resolved in the affirmative. Clause agreed to. Title agreed to. Bill reported with an amendment. Motion (by **Mr. Archdale** Parkhill) agreed to - That the bill be recommitted for the reconsideration of clause 4. *In committee* (Recommittal) : Clause 4 - >Section 5 of the principal act is amended. Amendment (by **Mr. Archdale** Parkhill) agreed to - >That the following paragraph be inserted: - " (aa) by omitting from paragraph (f)of sub-section (3) the word 'three' and inserting in its stead the word ' five ' ; and ". Rill reported with a further amendment. Reports - *by leave* - adopted. {:#subdebate-39-1} #### Third Reading Motion (by **Mr. Archdale** Parkhill) *- by leave* - proposed - >That the bill be now read a third time. {: #subdebate-39-1-s0 .speaker-JPV} ##### Mr BLAKELEY:
Darling .- During- the second-reading debate, I stated that this bill, in so far as it restricted the entry into this country of criminals and persons engaged in the white slave traffic, or in the sale of noxious drugs, was deserving of the support of honorable members. I went on to say that certain provisions in the bill had a political flavour about them, and my suspicions were strengthened by the statement of the Minister for the Interior **(Mr. Parkhill)** that, under the provisions of the bill, certain undesirable persons might be deported. The Leader of the Government in another place, when introducing the bill, was even more explicit than the Minister for the Interior. He said - >The general purport of the amendments, other than that relating to alien immigration, is to tighten up the provisions that enable ug to deal with undesirable persons in the Commonwealth. These provisions, in conjunction with those that will be embodied in another measure that is to come forward next week will, we consider, afford the Commonwealth better protection against certain undesirable features in tlie body politic, which have been asserting themselves only too plainly within the last few months. There was no need for legislation of this kind during the two and a half years the Scullin Government was in office, but immediately the present Government assumed power, this measure is brought down. {: #subdebate-39-1-s1 .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr WARD:
East Sydney .- I should like the Minister to make it clear whether the provisions of this bill will be made to apply to persons who have committed offences against the laws of any country whatsoever, even against the laws of Soviet Russia. The Minister's reply on this point will probably influence my vote on the clause. {: #subdebate-39-1-s2 .speaker-KJQ} ##### Mr JAMES:
Hunter .--I protest once more against this measure on the ground that it may be used to prevent the entry into this country of any person who has served a term of imprisonment for twelve months. Evidently the Government is not prepared to forgive, even though honorable members, in the prayers read in the House each day, ask to be forgiven. Under the existing act, if five years have elapsed since the expiration of a term of imprisonment, an immigrant may not be prevented from entering the country; but this bill proposes to remove the five-year limit. The Government should encourage men who have committed an offence, and have been punished for it, to reform, and become good citizens: Large sums of money are spent each year in the maintenance of prison reformatories, and a considerable measure of success is achieved in putting men who have committed offences back into decent society. If a family attempted to migrate to Australia, and one of ite members had served a term of imprisonment for twelve months, for perhaps some quite trivial offence, he might be prevented from landing, although the rest of the family would be admitted. This provision is opposed to all the principles of humanity and Christianity. It is vicious and vindictive. Evidently the Government is determined to cast back into the gutter any one who has ever erred. This National Government refuses to give to such persons the right to rehabilitate themselves. Once they have committed a fault, they are to be condemned for the rest of their lives. {: #subdebate-39-1-s3 .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER:
Reid -- I protest against this bill. A few years ago, two illustrious gentlemen, Eather 0'Flan.agan and **Mr. J.** J. 0'Kelly were denied admission to Australia. **Mr. 0'Kelly is** now a member of the Government of the Irish Free State. Presumably, under this legislation, **Mr. de** Valera could be denied admission to Australia on the ground that he was once in gaol. The Prime Minister **(Mr. Lyons)** ought to support my protest against this legislation because his forefathers, I believe, came from the land where the Shannon flows. The honorable member for Corio **(Mr. Casey)** should also be with us. {: .speaker-JWE} ##### Mr Casey: -- I did not come from Ireland. {: .speaker-K9A} ##### Mr GANDER: -- Well, the honorable member has an Irish name, at any rate. If his ancestors did not come from Ireland, he must be a " ring-tail ". This measure is too drastic of its treatment of those who have been punished for an offence. As the honorable member for Hunter **(Mr. James)** pointed out, the Scriptures say that - >There shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine righteous persons, which need no repentance. The honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Nairn)** said that this provision might be invoked against revolutionaries. In all parts of the world men have been incarcerated in prisons because of their advanced political beliefs. I should like the honorable member for Perth to define what is meant by a revolutionary. I can remember when the Prime Minister **(Mr. Lyons)** himself was, in the opinion of his political opponents, a revolutionary. I recall that the right honorable member for North Sydney **(Mr. Hughes),** and the honorable member for Martin **(Mr. Holman)** at one time expressed opinions which would have brought them to the verge of being proscribed under this proposed legislation. The honorable member for Martin once advocated bloodshed and revolution in the streets of Sydney. I remember when the honorable member for Martin **(Mr. Holman)** enthusiastically declared that he would welcome the time when the red flag was flying from the flag-staff on Parliament House - not this Parliament House, for federation had not then been accomplished. The honorable member for Maribyrnong **(Mr. Fen ton)** was prone to make similar utterances, and it was only by good fortune that he and his colleagues escaped imprisonment - in which case they would now be liable to deportation. **Senator Pearce** was the most prominent socialist of his day, and at any May Day meeting he was always the person to move that everything should be done to hasten the arrival of the revolution. I also remember the honorable members for Ballarat **(Mr. McGrath),** and Bass **(Mr. Guy)** indulging in the same sort of propaganda. The former was expelled from this House because of the fight that he put up for the poor and lowly. I assume that he is now prepared to fight against deportation, and I hope that he, the Prime Minister, and all of the old-time socialists that I have mentioned will link up with honorable members on this side, and vote against this iniquitous proposal. {: #subdebate-39-1-s4 .speaker-KRD} ##### Mr McGRATH:
Ballarat -- I must correct the inaccurate statement that I was expelled from this Parliament. I was suspended for having, in my electorate, criticized **Mr. Speaker** Johnson. {: #subdebate-39-1-s5 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP -- The honorable member for East Sydney **(Mr. Ward)** asked for certain information, indicating that it might influence his vote. I have grave doubts on that score. If the honorable member reads section 3 of the principal act he will find all the information that he seeks. This bill is a fair and reasonable instrument, such as every free country should have to protect itself against undesirables. It will not do what certain honorable members imply. Question - That the bill be now read a third time - put. The House divided. (Mr. Speaker - Hon. G. H. Mackay.) AYES: 30 NOES: 14 Majority . . . . 16 AYES NOES Question so resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a third time. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-40} ### BILLS The following bills were returned from the Senate without amendment or requests : - Cotton Industries Bounty Bill. Supply Bill (No. 1) 1932-33. War Pensions Appropriation Bill 1932. Invalid and Old-age Pensions Appropriation Bill, 1932. Supplementary Appropriation Bill 1930-31. Supplementary Appropriation (Works and Buildings) Bill 1930-31. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-41} ### FORESTRY BUREAU BILL {:#subdebate-41-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-41-0-s0 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP .- I move- >That the bill be now read a second time. The sole purpose of the bill is to substitute the title "Department of the Interior " for that of "Department of Home Affairs." Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and - *by leave* - passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-42} ### SOLAR OBSERVATORY FUND. BILL {:#subdebate-42-0} #### Second Reading Motion (by **Mr. Archdale** Parkhill) agreed to - >That the bill be now read a second time. Bill read a second time, and - *by leave* - passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-43} ### INSURANCE BILL (No. 2.) {:#subdebate-43-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-43-0-s0 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Assistant Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT; UAP from 1931 -- I move - >That the bill be now read a second time. The purpose of the measure is to make three small alterations in the Insurance Act recently passed. The definition of " insurance " business does not include workers compensation, and the hill proposes to rectify that omission. The act requires a person carrying on insurance business, other than life insurance, to deposit with the Treasurer £1,000 for each £5,000 of annual premium income, subject to a maximum deposit of £40,000, but if the annual income, excluding work men's compensation, should be such that the maximum deposit would be required, it would be competent for the States to require a further deposit in respect of workmen's compensation insurance business. That was not intended when the original act was passed; therefore, the definitionof " insurance business " is being amended to include workmen's compensation insurance business. Parliament did' not contemplate that any person or firm should conduct the businessof insurance without paying a deposit; but a company operating with a premium income of less than £5,000 would be exempt from making any deposit. The bill requires a deposit to be made in every instance. The third alteration is to section 16, which empowers the Treasurer to call for certain returns. An amendment in the bill will enable the Treasurer to proscribe the returns to be furnished, and thus dispenses with the obligation to make repeated, and probably numerous requests for returns. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time, and - *by leave* - passed through its remaining stages without amendment or debate. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-44} ### SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT {: #debate-44-s0 .speaker-F4O} ##### Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wilmot · UAP -- I move - >That the House at its rising adjourn until a date and hour to be fixed by **Mr. Speaker,** which time of meeting shall be notified by **Mr. Speaker** to each member by telegram or letter. {: .speaker-KX7} ##### Mr Ward: -- Can the Prime Minister indicate approximately the date on which Parliament will re-assemble? {: .speaker-F4O} ##### Mr LYONS: -- The Assistant Treasurer announced to-day that the budget will probably be introduced towards the end of July. The House will re-assemble at about that time if the budget is ready. Question resolved in the affirmative. {: .page-start } page 1302 {:#debate-45} ### LEAVE OF ABSENCE Motion (by **Mr. Lyons)** - *by leave -* agreed to - >That leave of absence be given to every member of the House of Representatives from the determination of this sitting ofthe House to the date of its next sitting. {: .page-start } page 1303 {:#debate-46} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-46-0} #### LAND ADMINISTRATION IN NORTHERN TERRITORY {: #subdebate-46-0-s0 .speaker-KXQ} ##### Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for the Interior · Warringah · UAP *.- by leave-* On the 10th March, last the honorable member for the Northern Territory **(Mr. Nelson)** stated that grave irregularities had been committed by the North Australia Commission and its officers, in connexion with the administration of Crown lands in the territory. Immediate steps were taken to have this matter thoroughly investigated. The ex-members of the commission and the officers concerned were informed of the charges, and asked for a full statement regarding them. Two of the members, Messrs. Horsburgh and Hobler, declined to make any statement without having an opportunity of examining the files bearing on the matters which the honorable member for the Northern Territory raised. **Mr. Easton,** the third member of the commission, in his reply traversed the charges and gave a general denial of the allegations of irregularities, dummying, &c, and stated - >Although he had probably adopted irregular methods of procedure on a number of occasions, not with any ulterior motive, but in order to suit the exigencies of the territory, and the settlers, and to facilitate the working of the department, on no occasion hud the interest of the department been allowed to differ thereby. Sworn statements were also obtained from the Administrator **(Colonel Weddell), Mr. E.** P. Shepherd (Chief Surveyor), and **Mr. G.** J. Piggott, Chief Clerk in the Lands Office, Darwin. In **Mr. Shepherd's** statement, he admitted having placed his signature on a transfer application which was handed to him by **Mr. Easton** bearing signatures of "0. T. Siddons" and "R. Bennett," which **Mr. Easton** requested him to sign, knowing that he was acquainted with both Siddons and Bennett. **Mr. Shepherd** also admitted that in December, 1931, he had informed the Administrator, in reply to a request for particulars regarding the matter, that he had witnessed the document just referred to while on the Western Australian border, and that Bennett was a stockman, although he knew that Bennett was in reality a sur veyor, and on that account not supposed to hold land, and he made this incorrect statement to protect Bennett. He further added that about a week after having informed the Administrator of the circumstances connected with the witnessing of the document, he received a letter from **Mr. Easton,** intimating that he had written to the Administrator putting the facts of the case before him, and that he (Shepherd) then told the Administrator that he knew Bennett, and that he -was a surveyor. On the receipt of these reports the whole of the papers were at once transmitted to the Commonwealth Crown Solicitor for careful investigation, with a view to his advising whether they contained any evidence of improper dealings in respect of the charges made by **Mr. Nelson,** and if such evidence existed, what charges based on them should be formulated against the persons concerned. **Mr. Sharwood** has very carefully examined **Mr. Nelson's** charges, and the whole of the other papers relating to the matter, and has now furnished a very full report. His conclusions may be summed up as follows: - *(a)* **Mr. Easton** and the other members of the commission committed irregularities in the discharge of their duties by accepting and acting upon applications for leases which were not in the form required by the regulations; *(b)* **Mr. Easton,** in particular, committed serious irregularities in connexion with the application for the transfer of the leases from Siddons to Bennett; (c) **Mr. Easton** carried on a personal correspondence with Siddons which appeared improperly to influence his action as a commissioner with regard to the leases in which Siddons was concerned; *(d)* **Mr. Easton** showed an interest in and an acquaintance with Bennett's affairs which appeared improperly to influence his action as a commissioner with regard to the leases in which Bennett was concerned ; (e) the commission unjustifiably discriminated between the applications of Ayliffe and Hamilton, and those of Grainger and Hand, by rejecting the former for informality and approving the latter, which were more obviously and seriously. informal; (/) **Mr. Easton** committed a serious irregularity in making, in official time, a survey which he had no authority as a commissioner to make. **Mr. Sharwood** added that, in his opinion, there was no evidence that any signature on a document in the file was a forgery, and the Crown Solicitor expressed the opinion that it appeared to be unlikely that any further investigation of **Mr. Easton's** conduct would elicit any material new evidence, unless the investigation were made by a body or tribunal such as a royal commission, having power to compel attendance of witnesses, the answering of questions, and the production of documents. In view of the fact that the commission is now out of existence, the Government is of opinion that neither the results likely to be obtained by investigation by such abody, nor the expense involved, would warrant the appointment of such a commission, and has decided, therefore, that no action in that direction shall be taken. , As regards **Mr. Shepherd's** position, the Crown Solicitor indicated that he had admittedly been guilty of improper conduct in signing an official document as a witness to signatures when he did not see the persons sign the documents, and in making false and misleading statements to the Administrator with regard to official documents. In view of the serious position in which the report has placed **Mr. Shepherd,** action has been taken to reduce his status from that of Chief Surveyor to that of Surveyor, with a reduction in salary of £100 per annum, and to cancel his appointment as a member of the Land Board. *Sitting suspended from6.42 to 7.20 p.m.* {: .page-start } page 1304 {:#debate-47} ### LOAN (UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF WORKS) BILL (No. 2) Bill returned from the Senate without amendment. {: .page-start } page 1304 {:#debate-48} ### IMMIGRATION BILL Message received from the Senate intimating that it had agreed to the amendments made by the House of Representatives in this bill. {: .page-start } page 1304 {:#debate-49} ### ADJOURNMENT Delegation to Ottawa - Duty on Buttons. {: #debate-49-s0 .speaker-F4O} ##### Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wilmot · UAP -- I move - >That the House do now adjourn. Before we meet again, the Assistant Treasurer **(Mr. Bruce)** and the Minister for Trade and Customs **(Mr. Gullett),** will have left Australia to represent this country at Ottawa on a mission that is fraught with greater importance to the people of Australia than perhaps any other mission that has left these shores. The Government has the utmost confidence in the Ministers who have been selected as the leaders of the delegation, and in the officials and other advisers who will accompany them. I feel sure that I express the views of all parties - because this is an Australian and not a party matter - in hoping that the mission will be completely successful, and that great, real, and lasting benefits will come to Australia as the result of the work which they have done in preparing for their task, and of that which they will do at Ottawa in consultation with the representatives of the other parts of the Empire. We have the utmost confidence in our delegation. They have undoubted ability for the particular task that they have been asked to undertake, and have had wide experience. I trust that the best results may come from their labours overseas, and that the report with which they return will tell a story that will be satisfactory to Australia and to the Empire generally. {: #debate-49-s1 .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra .- I join with the Prime Minister **(Mr. Lyons)** and other honorable members, in wishing the Ministers who will represent Australia at Ottawa, the greatest success from their efforts there. The conference will be truly significant indeed; it stands out among such conferences for two reasons. First, it is being held at a time of great stress and depression, and, secondly, it is being held at a time when every government that will be represented is open to the consideration of tariff reform and adjustments. The last economic conference held in London was important in many ways. It was important in the sense that some of the delegates there were representing nations which were in the midst of a depression. Australia was one of the first nations to encounter the depression, and at that stage Great Britain had not got beyond the edge of it. A great change has since come upon the British horizon. When I was in London many of the British Ministers would not consider for the moment any tariff change, nor agree to the imposition of any duty other than for revenue purposes. The change which has since occurred is remarkable. There is now a common ground for negotiation. I wish the Minister for Trade and Customs **(Mr. Gullett)** in particular every success in the negotiations. We expect our Ministers not to give away the protectionist policy of Australia,, nor allow the safeguards that apply to our own Australian industries to be weakened, but after we have considered our own industries, there is a big scope for negotiations regarding the reciprocal relations of this country and the other members of the British Commonwealth of Nations Three important subjects are interwoven; tariff reform, the exchange question, and monetary reform. Of these, the most important is the monetary system. Without some change in it, I see no hope for world rehabilitation. I believe that the nucleus of such a reform can come from what will be done at Ottawa, and a lead could thereby be given to the world. I said on my departure from Australia for London nearly two years ago, and on my return, and other honorable members have repeated it, that it is our privilege to belong to *ihe* British Commonwealth of Nations, and that it is our duty to maintain that commonwealth if, for no other reason, because of the ties of blood and sentiment. I believe, however, that the British Commonwealth of Nations is the nucleus of an international organization that must eventually make for the peace of the world. I believe, too, that some great understanding between the nations could lay the foundation of a wider international co-operation in monetary matters that will end the depression from which the world is suffering to-day, and bring to the workless millions a brighter outlook. I join in wishing the Assistant Treasurer and the Minister for Trade and Customs every success. May good fortune attend their efforts, and may they return from the conference having entered into agreements with our sister dominions and. the United Kingdom that will be of mutual benefit to the people of Australia and to the nation as a whole. {: #debate-49-s2 .speaker-C7E} ##### Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper .- On behalf of the Country party, I offer our best wishes to the representatives of Australia who are to attend the Ottawa Conference - the Assistant Treasurer **(Mr. Bruce)** and the Minister for Trade and Customs **(Mr. Gullett)** - and to express the hope that their mission may be completely successful, and that they will return to Australia bringing agreements with them that will be of benefit to not only Australia but also the rest of the British Empire, and through that to the whole of the world. I trust that the work done at the conference may in no small measure be done by the Australian representatives, and that it may cause the first ray of daylight to appear through the clouds of depression. At Ottawa, we seem to be breaking new ground in imperial relations in two respects: first, this is the first time that such an important conference has been held in the capital city of one of the dominions, and, secondly, this is the first time on which, in any discussion on the question of mutual reciprocity, Great Britain has had a tariff with which to offer anything substantial to the dominions in return for what they offer. Therefore, I think that there is a greater chance of success on this occasion than ever before. It is especially fitting that the right honorable the Assistant Treasurer should represent Australia at this epoch-making conference, because, it is still fresh in our memory that in 1923, as Prime Minister of the Commonwealth, he brought the subject of Imperial preference to the forefront. He was then able to secure substantial concessions for Australian producers, and I trust that the delegation under his leadership will be able to add at Ottawa another story of the edifice which was then commenced on solid foundations. This will be one more step in the direction of Empire economic unity which is found necessary to-day by reason of our traditions and race, and can be further secured by the ties of mutual commercial interest. {: #debate-49-s3 .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP .- I desire; first, to ask the Minister for Trade and Customs if he will refer to the Tariff Board for further consideration and report the duty on buttons, dealt with in item 106o. It must be admitted that the last report of the board on the subject is a very old one. I trust that success may attend the efforts of the two members of the Government who will represent this Parliament at the Ottawa conference, and I sincerely hope that full use will be made of the help that can be given by the unofficial as well as the official advisers who will accompany the delegation. I have no doubt that this will be so. I wish the right honorable the Assistant Treasurer and the Minister for Trade and Customs a most successful trip. **Mr. BRUCE** (Flinders- Assistant Treasurer [7.35]. - I am extremely grateful to the right honorable the Prime Minister, to the right honorable the Leader of the Opposition, and to the right honorable the Leader of the Country party for their kind remarks with regard to the mission which I and the Minister for Trade and Customs will shortly undertake. This will nOt be the first occasion on which I shall have gone abroad to represent Australia. I well remember my feelings in 1923 when, soon after I became Prime Minister, I was called upon to attend an Imperial Conference to represent this country. I then felt considerable regret that Australia had not a better representative ; but I was heartened and encouraged by the support that I received from all parties in this country, irrespective of their political differences. I have somewhat similar feelings to-day, and considerable trepidation, because the issues involved are so vast and can have farreaching effects, not only upon Australia and the British Empire, but upon the world as a whole. I am sure, however, that we shall have the support of the people of Australia generally at the forthcoming conference, and the knowledge of that will inspire us to do possibly even better than we may, at the present time, regard as possible. I have a very real feeling of responsibility with regard to this mission, and f am encouraged to hope that the great majority of the people of Australia recog nize that all my efforts will be directed to the promotion of the best interests of this country, and that I am sincere in my faith in Australia, and in my belief in its destiny. My one aim will be to weld more closely together the British Commonwealth of Nations, so that it may become the great world force which ii ought to be. We hope that the dark clouds that now darken civilization may be dispersed, and that out of the Ottawa, conference may come arrangements and understandings which will remove the depression which is now world-wide, anr) is causing misery to tens of millions of people. I am grateful for the good wishes thai have been expressed, and I give the House and the people of Australia my assurance that everything that lies in my powewill be done to solve some of the great problems that confront every nation to-day. {: #debate-49-s4 .speaker-KFS} ##### Mr GULLETT:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Henty · UAP -- In reply to the honorable member for Richmond **(Mr. R. Green)** I shall be pleased to comply with his request, and refer the particular item mentioned by him to the Tariff Board for reconsideration. I must regrethe position in which that industry find? itself as a result of the tariff alteration. However, the report submitted by the Tariff Board was a most decisive one. which no responsible Minister could ignore. May I also say how greatly I value the confidence in my colleague and myself as delegates to the Ottawa conference, which the right honorable the Prime Minister has expressed so generously. I appreciate equally the good wishes conveyed by the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the Country party. I recognize both the significance and the magnitude of the task at Ottawa, but both my colleague and I will be greatly heartened and strengthened for that task, because we shall carry with us the knowledge of the generous support of the members of all parties in this House. Question resolved in the affirmative. House adjourned at 7.41 p.m. until a date and hour to be fixed by **Mr. Speaker.**

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 24 May 1932, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1932/19320524_reps_13_134/>.