House of Representatives
8 October 1931

12th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. House of Representatives
  2. 12th Parliament
  3. 1931

Mr. Speaker (Hon. Norman Makin) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and offered prayers.

page 531

DEATH OF GENERAL SIR JOHN MONASH

Mr SCULLIN:
Prime Minister · Yarra · ALP

– by leave. - With very great regret, Ihave to announce to honorable members that General Sir John Monash died this morning. Though the news was not altogether unexpected, it will be received throughout Australia with profound sorrow. Sir John Monash was Australian-born; he loved his country intensely, and was one of the greatest figures in its history. After passing through the Melbourne University with high honours, he practised as a civil engineer and was in the front rank of his profession. He may well be described as a distinguished scholar, a great soldier, and an eminent citizen. In many capacities he gave to Australia outstanding service, which his countrymen will long remember with pride and gratitude. Perhaps his greatest achievement was the brilliant command of the Australian Imperial Force in France. Prior to that he had served in Gallipoli, where Monash Valley was named after him. He won the respect and loyalty of the men he commanded, because he gave to them loyalty and respect, and when criticism was levelled against the Australian soldiers they had no better champion than their distinguished leader. He was promoted to the rank of major-general in 1916, made lieutenant-general in 1918, and general in November, 1929. In civil life the deceased gentleman occupied many important positions. ; Since 1920 he had been chairman of the Electricity Commission in Victoria, occupying one of the most responsible posts in the service of the State. Last year he represented the Commonwealth at the celebrations in connexion with the inauguration of the new Delhi, and discharged his mission with credit to Australia and to himself. At the time of his death he was a member of the Council of Defence, and, having sat at the council table with him, I can testify to the value of his advice. Others who have had the privilege of serving with him know how sound were the views he expressed. I am sure that the sympathy of this House, and of the Australian nation, will be extended to the daughter and sisters who are left to mourn the loss of a very great man. I move-

That this House expresses its deep regret at the death of General Sir John Monash, G.C.M.G., K.C.B., V.D., places on record its appreciation of his meritorious public service, and tenders its profound sympathy to his daughter and other relatives in their bereavement.

Mr LYONS:
Wilmot

.- I second the motion. The death of Sir John Monash is a national loss. He was a great soldier, a great -engineer, and above all, a great Australian. When he left these shores with the first Australian expeditionary force in 1914, he was a colonel, and temporary brigadier-general of the Fourth Infantry Brigade. In 1919 he returned as commander of the Australian Army Corps of five divisions. A successful business man, a distinguished civil engineer, and scholar, Sir John Monash developed into a brilliant military leader. The war f urnished many examples of men eminent in other walks of life who achieved success and fame as military commanders, but none more remarkable than that of Sir John Monash. To the conduct of modern warfare he brought the qualities which had made him eminent in the direction of large businessundertakings. Withal, he won the loyalty and respect of those who served under him, because he was loyal to them, and gave free rein to individual initiative and judgment. All Australians were proud when he was knighted on the field by His Majesty the King. He knew every detail of what was happening within hiscommand; he remembered everything. It may be said that Sir John Monash had trained himself to do well almost any task. He graduated at the University of Melbourne in engineering, arts, and law. Twenty years before the Great War, he took up volunteer soldiering. In addition to his great attainments he possessed infinite personal charm, a warm heart, a sense of humour, and an ardent love of his country. After the war he applied his great organizing ability to the problems of demobilization and repatriation. Subsequently, his great energy and ability were directed to the development of the natural resources of Victoria, and once again he met with marked success. A man of such great parts and patriotism can ill be spared, particularly at this critical stage in the country’s history, when his counsel and powers of organization would have been invaluable. On behalf of the Opposition I join with the Prime Minister in expressing our sense of the great loss that Australia has sustained, and our sympathy with the bereaved relatives.

Mr CHIFLEY:
Minister for Defence · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– As Minister in charge of the department which General Sir John Monash served so faithfully and well, I should like to add my tribute of recognition of his sterling character and patriotic labours. He excelled in the arts of both peace and war, and brought to every task a sympathetic mind and a humane understanding. He was respected and loved by those who served under him, and his name will be for ever remembered in our history as one of Australia’s greatest citizens and servants.

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Cowper

.- I support the motion moved by the Prime Minister and seconded by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Lyons), expressing the sympathy of this Parliament at the passing of a great soldier, a greatcitizen, and a great Australian.

Sir John Monash rendered to Australia service that was never stinted, and, throughout his life, devoted to his country his great natural abilities and an intense public spirit. During the war he proved himself to be a leader of men. Unquestionably, hisleadership of the Australian Imperial Force gave confidence, not merely to his command, but also to the nation as a whole. After the war he devoted himself to the rehabilitation of Australia. Not merely in regard to the great undertaking at Yallourn, which he managed so successfully, were his outstanding abilities shown; he was always ready to give counsel and assistance to any enterprising and public spirited man or movement; his advice was always available to governments and to individuals.

To-day, there will be gloom throughout the homes of the Commonwealth because of the passing of this great Australian, and especially will there be gloom in the hearts of the soldiers who served under him for the four and a half years of the Great War.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Another beloved friend of mine has gone, the greatest citizen soldier that Australia has produced ; the greatest citizen soldier, probably, who took part in the terrible war of 1914-18. Sir John Monash was not only a distinguished soldier, he was a greater organizer, and an engineer of conspicuous ability.

I feel it my duty to say that he was one of the few men that I have wronged iu my life. At the time of an election for the Corio seat, a telegram was despatched in his name which’ afterwards proved to be a forgery. It hurt greatly the sitting member, and brought a new member to this House. To his honour, the latter gentleman assured me that had lie known the telegram to be a forgery, it would not have been used during the campaign. On my wronging Sir John Monash publicly a relation of his, and another great friend of mine, Philip Behrend, who has also now gone over to the great majority, proved to me that I was at fault. As publicly as I attacked, so publicly I made the amende honorable. When the late Sir John Monash returned to Australia, we resumed our acquaintance, and, great man that he was, he showed himself great in forgiveness when lie understood how I had been misled, and our acquaintance developed into a firm f friendship

One matter that I felt bitterly at the time, and in connexion with which I made my protest in this House, was that when there was a royal visit to Australia, the professional soldiers of our Defence Department left that great .soldier and citizen on the footpaths of Melbourne, denying him official participation in the welcome.

I can only say to those dear ones who will miss him the words of solace that I have expressed in the many partings that I have had during my long life, that the departure of each dear one that wo love but adds to the number who will welcome us when our own turn comes to pass through the shadows.

Mr HUGHES:
North Sydney

– I desire to associate myself with this motion, and with the sentiments expressed by the Prime Minister (Mr. Scullin), the Leader of ‘ the Opposition (Mr. Lyons), the Leader of the Country party (Dr. Earle Page), the Minister for Defence (Mr. Chifley), and the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney).

The news of the death of General. Sir John Monash will be received with great and sincere regret -by the people of Australia, to whom he stood as the leader and living embodiment of the Australian Imperial Force, and all its glorious and imperishable achievements. One by one the great outstanding figures of the world war are passing away. v Yesterday, Haig and Foch:- to-day, Monash.

Sir John Monash lias gone from among us. But his name is engraven on our hearts - a name that will not die ; whose lustre passing time cannot wholly dim. We are still too near the mighty events amidst which he played so distinguished a part to enable us to measure his true greatness ; but this much is clear - that of all who held high command in the Allied Forces, his claim to military genius is the least likely to be questioned. To him, more than to any other, is due the plan which inspired the great offensive of the 8th August, 1918, which plucked victory” out of the jaws of defeat, and drove back headlong the exulting German legions along the Hindenburg line; sweeping irresistibly through the vaunted barrier, to victory, and to peace.

This great soldier, this great citizen, has left us; but across the abyss that now divides us wo waft to him our tributes of homage and admiration, of gratitude and esteem. We extend to his daughter and sister our deepest sympathy.

Mr LATHAM:
Kooyong

.- We mourn this afternoon the death of a distinguished Australian, one who rendered unique service to the Commonwealth and the Empire.

I had the privilege of knowing Sir John Monash intimately for many years. I knew his name from the day when, as a small boy, I entered his old school - Scotch College, Melbourne - and saw it inscribed on the honour board as dux of the school. At the University, Sir John Monash won degrees in law, arts, and engineering, and carved for himself an academic career which seldom has been excelled. Subsequently, he became Vice-Chancellor of the Melbourne University, and for many years I was associated with him in university work and other public activities. I was also associated with him in the work of my own profession, when I learned to appreciate and value his very clear mind.

Sir John Monash had, I believe, the highest degree of intellectual ability, combined with very great practical capacity. As an organizer and administrator, he had few, if any, equals. His record during the war is one of outstanding and brilliant achievement. As a leader of the Australian Imperial Force, and in other positions which he filled before he became Commander of the Australian Army Corps in France, he won and held the admiration, loyalty and devotion of his men. At the conclusion of the war he undertook the great responsibility of demobilization, and on his return to civic life he lost no opportunity of protecting the rights of returned soldiers, and emphasizing their duties and responsibilities as citizens.

The work of Sir John Monash at Yallourn, and in other activities, since the war, is well known. He was always a leader. No one in Australia has been a leader in so many spheres. He had great driving force and energy, and wonderful vitality. His interests were wide, and, likehis abilities, were almost universal in scope. He enjoyed the admiration of all Australians, and the affection and esteem of many thousands who knew him. His life should be an inspiration to us all.

Mr.R. GREEN (Richmond) [2.50].- As one who was a humble and insignificant member of the Australian Imperial Force, I wish to add my meed of praise to what has already been said concerning that very gallant gentleman who, more than any other man, by the service he rendered to the Empire in the Great War, gave prominence to the name of Australia on the map of the world. In olden days, men were given dukedoms or other great honours for deeds which cannot compare with those of Sir John Monash. By those who served with and under him his name can never be forgotten. Australia will remember him, not only for what he did during the war, but also for what he accomplished after bis return to civilian life. As an executive officer of the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League of Australia, I have personal knowledge of the value of his work. He never sought the limelight.; he was content to do what he could to help others, and to benefit the land of which he was so distinguished a son. I doubt whether Australia has produced two greater men than Sir John Monash and Sir Harry Chauvel. Today we mourn the loss of one of them; the other we hope will continue among us for many years, to give service in peace time to the nation which he served so well in the turmoil of world warfare. I feel certain that Sir John Monash would have applied to himself the words of the late Mr. Justice Pring, of New South Wales, who said, “ I have done my duty; I can do no more; I should do no less.” But his actions speak louder than any words he might have uttered. As an insignificant member of that great body of men who served under Sir John Monash, I pay my tribute of recognition to a great Australian who is no longer with us.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

. -As one who had the privilege of knowing Sir John Monash personally for many years, and of serving under him from the time when, as a boy, I joined the artillery battery in North Melbourne of which he was captain, I also pay my humble tribute to his worth. By his death there passes one of the last of the great war leaders, a versatile genius whose extraordinary gifts undoubtedly led to a speedier termination of the war than would otherwise have come about. That is admitted even by our former enemies. His outstanding ability took him to the highest command. Alike as soldier, engineer, and scholar, he excelled. In addition to rendering imperishable service to Australia as Commander of the Australian Corps in the war, he rendered invaluable service to his native State of Victoria by the completion, often in spite of opposition, of the Yallourn scheme which utilized its brown coal resources. Admired by the men he led, honoured by grateful citizens, Sir John Monash has passed from among us. Australia and the Empire are the poorer for his passing.

Question resolved in the affirmative, honorable members standing in their places.

Ordered -

That Mr. Speaker be requested to transmit to Mrs. Gershon Bennett, daughter of the late Sir John Monash. the foregoing resolution, together with a copy of the speeches delivered thrown.

page 535

QUESTION

LOANS TO LOCAL GOVERNING BODIES

Mr SCULLIN:
Prime Minister · Yarra · ALP

– by leave - As numerous questions have been asked by honorable members regarding the making available of funds to public bodies, I propose to read a letter which I received this morning from the chairman of the Commonwealth Bank Board. The letter, which is dated the 7 th October, 1931, reads -

With reference to the provision of loans for the carrying out of public works of a reproductive nature thereby providing relief to unemployed. In accordance with the undertaking given by this bank to give consideration to applications from public bodies for loans to carry out works complying with the above, I have to advise you that at the board meeting just concluded the following loans were approved : -

Clarence River County Council (Nymboida Electrical Scheme). - A sum of £191,000 has been approved towards this scheme, the whole of which, with the exception of a small amount, will be spent in Australia, providing both direct and indirect employment. In addition to the foregoing it would seem that the advantages derivable from this scheme by the dairying industry in the district affected will be conducive in increasing production and thereby national wealth. It is understood that the provision of this loan will enable the expenditure of an additional £30,000 which can be made available from other sources.

Queensland Meat Industry Board. - A loan of £65,000 has been approved for the purpose of providing extra equipment and operating charges connected with the carrying out of this scheme. It is believed that besides assisting in the direction of further employment the scheme will have the effect of increasing the export business, thereby adding to the national income.

Warrnambool Sewerage Authority. - A loan of £40,000, which also entails providing £12,000 for working account, for the purpose of starting the first section of a sewerage system for the town of Warrnambool,has been approved. It is understood that practically the whole of this money will be spent in a form which will absorb labour and it would appear that it will be reproductive financially through revenue besides providing much needed sanitation for Warrnambool.

Newcastle District Abattoir Board. - Loan of £12,000 has been approved for the purpose of adding to the refrigerating chambers of this undertaking. It is understood that the whole of this will be spent directly and indirectly on labour, and will provide accommodation for the growing demand for export facilities from this port thereby increasing income from overseas.

The board will continue to consider applications complying with the conditions and in accordance with the ability of the bank to provide funds. It is understood, of course, that public bodies will apply to the banks with which they are at present doing business for financial assistance in accordance with the understanding which has been approved in this connexion.

Yours faithfully,

Robert Gibson,

Chairman of the Board of Directors.

page 535

FREIGHT ON WOOL

Mr RIORDAN:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND

– Will the Prime Minister have an inquiry instituted at the earliest possible date into the extortionate freight on wool, compared with the freight charged for other cargoes, exported from Australia, more particularly since wool is realizing very low prices 3

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– This matter is under consideration. I have been in touch with the Overseas Transport Association in connexion with it.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Has the Overseas Transport Association brought under the notice of the Minister for Markets and Transport (Mr. Parker Moloney) the disparity between the freight charges on wool, compared with those charged on other exportable commodities? Has the Federal Government a representative in that Association? Can the Minister procure for me an explanation why the freight of wool should cost 1 3-16d. per lb., compared with¾ d. per lb. charged on frozen meat, which requires refrigerated space, 27s. per ton on flour, and 25s. per ton on wheat? Why are Sydney harbour dues 9d. per ton on wheat and 5s. 3d. per ton on wool?

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The Government has no representative in the Overseas Transport Association. The subject of overseas freights has already been taken up, and, through the Prime Minister’s Department, representations are now being made in order to afford relief in every possible direction.

page 535

CANBERRA RELIEF WORKS

Award Rates and Condition’s

Mr BLAKELEY:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Last Friday, on the motion for the adjournment of the House, the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) made certain representations regarding the conditions under which relief works at Canberra were carried out, and he wished to know whether awards and other conditions were being observed. I am informed by the

Industrial Officer, through the Secretary to the Works Department, as follows : -

At the inception of the Canberra UnemploymentRelief Fund Committee, which has accredited representatives of the Australian Workers Union and Building Trades Unions in Canberra, it was decided that award rates and conditions should apply, with the exception of payment on the job, when it was decided that with respect to payment, men should draw their pay on the following day. This was considered necessary at the time owing to works finishingon different days, and owing to the necessity for avoiding increased departmental expenditure involved in payment on the job at frequent and irregular intervals. This matter was recently reconsidered, and it was agreed to institute a weekly pay day, i.e., Friday, and to arrange relief works in such a manner that they would begin on Monday and end on Friday, the men being paid on the job up to and including ceasing time on that date. Unfortunately, the incidence of wet weatherhas interfered with the arrangement on two relief jobs. In these cases the men are paid on the job on Friday for the number of days worked up to and including that day. The pay for the balance of the days worked, which go to make the rostered week, is available for the men on the following Friday. The union representative on the committee agreed to this arrangement.

It will be seen, therefore, that although the award provides for fortnightly payments, men on relief work are being paid weekly, and, wherever practicable, with due regard to economy, on the job. The Industrial Board’s award provides for payment for certain holidays, subject to the condition that employees shall have worked on the days immediately preceding andsucceeding the holiday. With regard to the Easter holidays, men on relief works worked a five-day week, and payment was made for Good Friday and Easter Monday in cases where such holidays fell in their rostered week. Similarly, payment was made for such holidays if the rostered week finished on Easter Monday. When the rostered week finished on Friday, payment was only made for Good Friday. It will be seen, therefore, that although the provision regarding men having worked the days immediately preceding and succeeding the holidays was not complied with in every case, men on relief work did not suffer any monetary loss. ] may say that, in connexion with the Federal Capital Territory relief works, the spirit and letter of the awards are being scrupulously observed.

page 536

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN CONSOLIDATED STOCK

Mr LATHAM:

– Yesterday the Treasurer furnished me with some information as to the amount of unconverted securities in connexion with the recent’ Commonwealth loan conversion opera tion. He told me that there were some 29,000 dissentients. Is he now able to inform me whether any, and if so, how many, of these have converted portions of their holdings?

Mr THEODORE:
Treasurer · DALLEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– A large number of those who have dissented converted a portion of their holdings, and dissented with respect to the remainder. I shall endeavour to ascertain further particulars regarding the matter.

page 536

QUESTION

SUGAR AGREEMENT

Wages of Employees

Mr BEASLEY:
WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Government power to interfere with the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, say, under the sugar agreement, having regard to the financial position of the company, as disclosed to the court during the hearing of an application for the restoration to the company’s employees of the 10 per cent. by which their wages were reduced?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– A full investigation was made into the position of the industry by the committee that was appointed to go into the matter. If the honorable member desires me to inquire into any particular aspect of it, I shall be glad to do so.

page 536

QUESTION

FEDERAL AID ROADS SCHEME

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– Has the Commonwealth Government resumed payment to New South Wales of the sums due to it under the federal aid roads scheme, or are those amounts still being retained to offset the amounts owing by New South Wales to the Commonwealth ?

Mr THEODORE:
ALP

– The Commonwealth has resumed these payments to New South Wales since that State has undertaken to fulfil its obligations to the Commonwealth.

page 536

QUESTION

WAR SERVICE HOMES

Mr MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I recently asked whether the Government would consider allowing the purchasers of war service homes to meet their commitments with respect to those homes by means of Commonwealth bonds. Has the Government further considered the matter, and if not, will it do so?

Mr THEODORE:
ALP

– I shall be pleased to look into the matter, and see if it is practicable to allow something of that kind.

page 537

QUESTION

CANBERRA AND QUEANBEYAN

Trading Arrangements

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Is it true, as reported in a certain section of the press, that freetrade between Canberra and Queanbeyan has been abolished? I understand that a Queanbeyan butcher or baker is not allowed to do business with the people of Canberra.

Mr BLAKELEY:

– I draw the honorable member’s attention to a question, asked on notice, on this subject by the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney), to whom I have supplied an answer to-day.

page 537

QUESTION

CANBERRA

Bus Shelter Sheds

Mr WHITE:

– The Minister for Home Affairs has laid stress on the ideal labour conditions, holiday pay, and five-day working week that are enjoyed in Canberra. Will he prepare a statement showing the cost to the Commonwealth of the shelter sheds that are being provided in Commonwealth-avenue, at the entrance to Hotel Canberra, and at the back of Parliament House, should the work be completed before Parliament again goes into recess?

Mr BLAKELEY:

– I shall obtain the information for the honorable member.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– Is the Minister aware that for several weeks a number of persons have been engaged in building these small shelter sheds ? When they are completed, if ever, will he inform me of the actual cost of each?

Mr BLAKELEY:

– I strongly deprecate honorable members criticizing something of which they know nothing. The shelter sheds in question are of very solid construction, and excellent work is being put into them. I have already promised to furnish information regarding their cost.

Mr HAWKER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Are these shelter sheds intended to be used as resting places by persons who are waiting for buses, or by those who presumably are erecting them?

Question not answered.

page 537

QUESTION

SODA ASH

Mr PRICE:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Is the Minister for

Trade and Customs aware that a Mr. George McPhail, of Adelaide, has in hand a proposition for the manufacture of soda ash, that the Minister in charge of Development (Senator Daly) has taken a deep interest in this project, and that at the present moment he is awaiting a report from Mr. Gepp, who has inquired into the economic aspect of the manufacture of this commodity at Port Adelaide ?

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– Senator Daly, the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Price), and other honorable members and honorable senators ha ve discussed this proposition with me. I am aware that the gentleman whose name has been mentioned has in mind the establishment of this industry. I shall ascertain what effect, if any, the duties imposed last night may have on it, and furnish a reply to the honorable member in writing.

page 537

QUESTION

REFRIGERATED SHIPPING SPACE

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Minister for Markets and Transport in his possession information to the effect that there is a shortage of overseas refrigerated shipping space, with the result that there is a serious accumulation of butter and meat in cool storage at several Australian ports ?

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-I have devoted to thismatter a considerable amount of time. The replies that have been received in response to our representations are to the effect that, on account of the very favorable lambing season, there is an unprecedented demand for refrigerated shipping space. It has also been pointed out that, for the last three months, the export of commodities generally has been ten times as great as was the case during a similar period last year. A thorough investigation is being made, and everything possible is being done to alleviate the position.

page 537

QUESTION

PROPOSED NEW INDUSTRIES

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister for Trade and Customs say whether it is a fact, as I have been informed by persons who are concerned, that the representatives in Australia of several large English and American manufacturing firms which had intended establishing big works in this country have decided, within the last few days, to advise their principals not to proceed further with the venture on account of the high cost of production ?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– No such information has been conveyed to me; on the contrary, I have met the representatives of some English and American manufacturers who are most optimistic regarding the future of Australia, who believe that this country has already turned the corner, and have advised their principals to invest their money here.

page 538

QUESTION

GRANT TO WHEAT-GROWERS

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

– Will the Prime Minister, before making final arrangements for the distribution of the £3,000,000 that it is proposed to grant to wheat-farmers, consider the allocation of a portion of the amount among the growers of barley who depend solely on that product for their living?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– The request made to the banks on behalf of the Premiers Conference was for a bounty on wheat production. I do not think that any of the money that is to be made available can be diverted to the assistance of the growers of any other grain.

page 538

QUESTION

INTEREST ON MORTGAGES

Mr RIORDAN:

– I ask the Prime Minister whether the Queensland Government has yet put into operation that portion of the Premiers’ plan which provides for a reduction of 22½ per cent. in the interest rate on mortgages? If it has not done so, will the right honorable gentleman make representations to the Premier of that State to give effect to that portion of the agreement?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– I shall have inquiry made of the Queensland Government, to ascertain what the position is.

page 538

QUESTION

WHOLESALE PRICE LEVELS

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– Has the Minister for Trade and Customs noticed that, according to the Statistical Bulletin which was issued this morning, certain wholesale price index figures for Melbourne have increased to the following extent between 1929 and August last: -

Groceries from 1690 to 1769.

Building materials from 1754 to 2091.

Chemicals from 1942 to 2179.

Will the honorable gentleman have inquiries made to ascertain whether pro fiteering is being practised under the increased tariff that has been imposed?

Mr.FORDE. - If the right honorable member will place the information in my hands I shall give it careful consideration. I have also been requested to investigate price levels in the dairying industry. It has been pointed out that that industry has been bolstered up at the expense of the consumers. I have promised to have the inquiry made.

Dr EARLE PAGE:

– In view of the fact that the wholesale price index figure for dairy produce has declined from 1853 in 1929 to 1336 in 1931, and that of agricultural products from 1792 to 1097, will the Minister take the necessary steps to reduce the prices of those commodities which our primary producers have to purchase ?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– I very much regret, in common with other honorable members, that our primary producers have to depend upon the vagaries of the world’s market for the disposal of their surplus products, and that, in recent years, they have not received an adequate return. I am endeavouring, by means of the protectionist policy of this Government, to establish for them a wider local market which, as every honorable member knows, is the best market.

page 538

QUESTION

SUGAR AGREEMENT

Mr CURTIN:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Will the Minister for Trade and Customs state whether it is in accordance with the provisions of the sugar agreement that the Colonial Sugar Refining Company shall prohibit unionists from working at their establishment at Cottesloe Beach?

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– Provision is made in the sugar agreement for the continuance of the policy of preference to unionists that was agreed to by the Queensland cane farmers, the mills, and the Australian Workers Union in that State. I believe that the Queensland Government, although not in agreement with that policy, undertook not to oppose its application. The principle does not extend to the working conditions that are in operation in the mills of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company in other States. If the honorable member will place his complaint before me, I shall have inquiries made, and furnish him with a written reply.

Mr GUY:
BASS, TASMANIA

– Is the Minister for Trade and Customs aware that complaints arc being made that grocers in Launceston are obliged to pay £38 4s. 2d. per ton spot cash for A1 grade sugar, contrary to the provisions of the sugar agreement, and that grocers in Hobart have until recently been obliged to pay a greater sum than that specified in the agreement for the same grade of sugar ? If that charge can be sustained, what steps will the Government take to recompense those grocers who are losing heavily owing to the breach of the agreement?

Mr FORDE:

– If the honorable member will place his complaint before me I shall have’ it fully investigated. The Government will take whatever steps lie within its power to redress any grievance that exists.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Can the Prime Minister say if there are any means of testing the sweetening quality of sugar produced in Australia to-day as compared with that of the 1929 production? I raise this point because, in some quarters, there is a strong feeling that the quality to-day is not nearly so good as it was a couple of years ago?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– I understand that the quality is determined by the net titre standard, and I presume that adequate steps are taken to maintain the standard. The sugar agreement is based upon the delivery of sugar of standard quality, and I have every reason to believe that its sweetening quality is as high as in former years.

Mr GREGORY:

– In view of the opposition of government supporters to any proposal which savours of the exploitation of the people, will the Prime Minister undertake to give honorable members an opportunity to discuss the motion standing in my name with regard to the sugar agreement and the embargo on importation?

Mr SCULLIN:

– Whether that motion will be discussed at an early date depends upon the expedition with which urgent government business is dealt with.

Mr MARR:

– Since one of the principles affirmed by the recent conference of Premiers to consider the financial rehabilitation of the Commonwealth was equality of sacrifice, will the Prime Minister give the House an opportunity to discuss the sugar agreement with a view to requiring those engaged in the industry to join with other sections of the people in the common sacrifice?

Mr SCULLIN:

– I have already answered that question.

page 539

QUESTION

URGENT QUESTIONS

Mr CROUCH:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

– Can the Prime Minister state how many of the 23 questions that have been asked this afternoon are urgent, and should have been asked without notice?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– I should say not one of them.

page 539

QUESTION

KINGSFORD SMITH

Mr MARKS:

– Realizing the personality of Air-Commodore Kingsford Smith, and bearing in mind his wonderful record, will the Prime Minister consider, on behalf of the people of Australia, asking the distinguished airman to be the guest of the Commonwealth Government during his stay in London ?

Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– The matter will be considered.

page 539

QUESTION

WIRELESS BROADCASTING

Crystal Brook Station

Mr HAWKER:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. What is the estimated cost of the Crystal Brook broadcasting station when complete?
  2. What is the salary paid to the constructing engineer or officer in charge?
  3. What is the estimated approximate cost of working the station when complete?
  4. What is the estimated additional revenue attributable to the station?
Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Approximately £24,000.
  2. The constructing engineer is provided by the contractor, and no information is available as to the salary he is paid.
  3. The approximate cost of working the station, including interest and depreciation, will be £7,000.
  4. It is not practicable to state the effect of establishing an individual station, but it is anticipated that the development of the general plan for the National Broadcasting Service will bring about a 20 per cent. increase in licences. The scheme aims at providing reliable service to listeners in practically all the settled areas of the Commonwealth - embracing about 95 per cent. of the population - on a basis which will be selfsupporting as a whole.

page 540

QUESTION

FEDERAL AID ROADS ACT

Road Construction - Allocation of Expenditure

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The honorable the Leader of the Opposition has asked a series of questions regarding the construction of roads and allocation of funds under the Federal Aid Roads Act. The information is being obtained, and will be furnished to the honorable member at the earliest possible date.

page 540

BANKRUPTCY ACT

Qualifications of Auditors

Mr CROUCH:

asked the Attorney-

General, upon notice -

  1. What qualifications are required from auditors to audit trustees’ accounts under the Bankruptcy Act?
  2. Are these qualifications necessary for such appointments?
Mr BRENNAN:
Attorney-General · BATMAN, VICTORIA · ALP

– An arrangement is in operation whereby audit officers of the Commonwealth Audit Office are appointed by the Registrar to effect the audit of trustees’ accounts. Non-official auditors are not appointed by the Registrar for this purpose.

page 540

RETURNED SAILORS AND SOLDIERS IMPERIAL LEAGUE OF AUSTRALIA

Government Subsidy

Mr BEASLEY:

asked the Prime

Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League of Australia subsidized by the Commonwealth Government?
  2. If so, how isthe subsidy paid, what is the amount, and what is its purpose?
Mr SCULLIN:
ALP

– An amount of £220 per month is being paid by the Government through the Repatriation Commission to the league to assist it in conducting unemployment bureauxfor exservice personnel in the several States. A return is furnished monthly to the commission by the league, setting out the activities of the bureaux and the expenditure incurred.

page 540

QUESTION

WHEAT AND WOOL FREIGHTS

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The honorable member for Corangamite (Mr. Crouch) has asked a series of questions regarding increased freights on wheat and wool. The desired information is being obtained.

page 540

QUESTION

TELEGRAPH SYSTEMS

Mr CULLEY:
DENISON, TASMANIA

asked the Postmaster-

General, upon notice -

  1. What is the cost to date of experimenting on the installation, operation, &e., of the Murray multiplex and teletype telegraph systems between Launceston and Melbourne?
  2. Has the experiment proved that this system can be worked successfully and economically between Launceston and Melbourne?
  3. In view of the fact that the Wheatstonetelegraph system now in operation has worked successfully for a number of years, and is reported to have met all telegraph requirements, what is the object in continuing the heavy expenditure involved in failures and experiments associated with Murray multiplex and teletype systems?
Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. The investigations have been carried out as part of the research and experimental work of the department, and independent records of cost arc not maintained in such circumstances.
  2. The department has accumulated a mass of extremely important data valuable in the general technical aspect of its communication services, and, although finality has not been reached concerning the operationof the system over submarine cable circuits, the operation of the circuit has been improved.
  3. The Wheatstone system does not meet all telegraph requirements. Both the service and economic aspects will benefit considerably by the establishment of a stable machine printing system.

page 540

QUESTION

FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY

Trade Restrictions

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister for Home Affairs, upon notice -

  1. Has his attention been called to a paragraph in the Queanbeyan Age of the 2nd instant, in which the following comment is made on certain information supplied by the Minister for Health in reply to a question by the honorable member for Melbourne: - “The writer of the articles in our journal well knew that there were no restrictions in regard to entering the Territory, but the fact still remains that people arc compelled to reside in Canberra in order to hold their jobs. No denial was given to other matters mentioned in the article with reference to butchers, dairymen, &c., not being permitted to continue to serve their customers who lived in the Territory, nor to other matters re trade, nor to the burning of wood in preference to selling it in Queanbeyan.”?
  2. Is it a fact that tradesmen arc not permitted to serve customers in the Federal Capital Territory?
  3. Is it a fact that citizens in the Territory are not allowed to sell wood in Queanbeyan!
  4. If so, does the Minister intend to make trading between Queanbeyan and the Territory free as it is between State and State?
Mr BLAKELEY:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. . I have referredto the newspaper paragraph mentioned by the honorable member. For many years, residents of Queanbeyan enjoyed a large measure of employment in connexion with the activities of the Federal Capital. The Federal Government has been compelled, owing to present financial conditions, to suspend the general constructional programme for the Territory, and the limited funds that are available arc sufficient only to afford a certain measure of employment to residents of the Territory. The question of employment of persons living in the State is considered to be a matter for the State Government.
  2. Restrictions in regard to Queanbeyan tradesmen serving customers in the Federal Capital Territory relate only to the supply of meat and milk. It is regarded as essential that the sale of meat and milk within the Territory shall, in the interests of public health, be subject to certain control, and permitted only where the conditions of their production can be under scrutiny. The laws of the Territory do not permit of federal authorities exercising such scrutiny within a State. For this reason, the sale within the Territory of meat and milk from Queanbeyan is not permitted.
  3. Yes, so far as unoccupied and leased Crown lands are concerned. The timber is the property of the Crown and its quantity is limited. It has therefore been the policy for several years to reserve the supply for governmental purposes and for the use of the residents of the Territory.
  4. As a general principle, it is not desired to interfere with free trading between Queanbeyan and the Territory. The exceptions indicated, however, are considered to be justified on the grounds of public policy.

page 541

QUESTION

TEXTILE INDUSTRY

Conditions of Employment

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– The honorable member for Corangamite (Mr. Crouch) has asked a number of questions regarding wages and hours in the textile industry. The information is being obtained.

page 541

QUESTION

SALES TAX

Tram Cars

Mr MACKAY:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Whether it is a fact that semi-government institutions, such as tramway boards, are subject to the sales tax on the manufacture of cars intended for their own use in the conveyance of the travelling public?

Mr THEODORE:
ALP

– Yes. There is no provision in the sales tax assessment acts to permit exemption in such cases.

page 541

QUESTION

BEER DUTY AND EXCISE

Mr FORDE:
ALP

– On the 23rd September the honorable member for Oxley (Mr. Bayley) asked the following questions, uponnotice : -

  1. What was the amount of revenue from British bottled beer collected during the first six months of each of the years 1929, 1930, and 1931?
  2. What was the amount of revenue from Australian beer collected during the first six months of each of theyears 1929, 1930, and 1931?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information : -

page 541

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Tariff Report - Report and Recommendation - Cotton Yarns classifiable under 1930 proposed Tariff Item 392 (a) (2).

Ordered to be printed.

New Guinea Act - Ordinance of 1931 - No, 30 - Native Labour.

page 541

TARIFF

Customs Duties

In Committee of Ways and Means:

Consideration resumed from the 7th October (vide page 526), on motion by Mr. Forde -

That the schedule to the customs tariff be amended.

Division 10. - Wood, Wicker and Cane. Item 291-

  1. Timber, undressed, n.e.i., viz.: -

Other-

  1. In sizes of 12 inches x 1.0 inches (or its equivalent) and over, per 100 super feet, British, 10s.6d.; intermediate, 10s. 6d.; general, 12s. 6d.
  2. In sizes of 7 inches x 2½ inches (or its equivalent) and upwards, and less than 12 inches x 10 inches (orits equivalent) per 100 super feet, British, 12s.; intermediate, 12s.; general, 14s.
  3. In sizes less than 7 inches x 2^ inches (or its equiva-1 lent), per 100 super, feet, British, 13s. Od.; intermediate, 13s. Cd. ; general, 15s. Od.
Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I know of no tariff item either in Australia or elsewhere, in which there are such extraordinary features and such peculiar implications as in the item under discussion. The duties on Oregon and baltic in the’ 1908-11 tariff ranged from 6d. to 2s. 6d. per 100 super, feet., to-day, they are as high as 24s. per 100 super, feet. Numerous inquiries have been made regarding these timbers. The first was held by the Interstate Commission in 1914-15, the second by the Tariff Board in 1925,’ the third by the board in 1927, the fourth by the board in 1929, and the last by the board in June of last year. On every occasion the Tariff Board has definitely and emphatically reported against any increase in these duties, but despite its recommendations the rates have been increased to the extraordinary extent indicated. In its annual report for 1928 the board, commented upon the efforts made by interested parties to influence the Minister, and stated -

The method adopted ‘ by interested parties to influence departure from the Tariff Board’s recommendation is worthy of study and deserving of strong comment. It has happened, after the Tariff Board has held an inquiry, at which over 100 witnesses were publicly examined on oath, has carefully studied the whole of the public .and confidential evidence, and has presented a recommendation to the Minister, that a few men, parties to the application, have made representations to members of Parliament, and to theGovernment which have resulted in the setting aside of the weight of public evidence and the studied recommendations of the board.

That is exactly what has happened in connexion with these timber duties. “A few men, parties to the application, made representations to members of Parliament, and to the Government, and succeeded in persuading the Minister to set aside the board’s recommendations.” I am with the hoard in strongly protesting against this procedure. In its report of the 10th June, 1930, the board stated -

After having given the utmost consideration to the matter from all aspects, the board is of opinion that an increase in the present rates of duty on undressed Oregon in sizes 12 inches x 4 inches, or its equivalent, and over, will be neither justifiable nor desirable.

Mr Jones:

– From which report has the honorable member taken that extract?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The last one which the board made on the subject. That report also contains the following observations : -

After reviewing the position in the principal importing States, the board is satisfied that the most hopeful result that could be anticipated from the adoption of the proposals put forward regarding Oregon is the replacement of Oregon by Australian hardwood to the extent of, at the most, 40,000,000 super, feet out of the average importation of 200,000,000 super, feet.

At the very utmost, the imposition of these duties can displace only 20 per cent, of the Oregon and baltic now being used. The views of the board have been entirely ignored. The board might just as well have saved its own time and the taxpayers’ money by ‘ not making its inquiries. But why have these reports been ignored? It has been due to the extraordinary agitation that has taken place on this subject - an agitation which presents some most astounding features.

Certain timber interests in Melbourne, who have been lifelong opponents of duties on Oregon and baltic, suddenly made up their minds to associate themselves with those who were endeavouring to push the sale of hardwood, and with a ubiquitous union secretary, in an endeavour to secure, an increase in the duties on Oregon and baltic. An Irish-American writer has framed this maxim, “ The hardest thing to find in this world is an honest partner for a swindle.” Apparently, those interested in the effort- to increase the duties on this timber had no difficulty in finding “ honest partners “ for their swindle, in certain Melbourne timber merchants, their erstwhile enemies who joined with them and the union secretary in urging the Government to take this step. The reason for this change of front was that the timber merchants in question were caught with heavy supplies of timber. They had overbought, and decided to endeavour to protect themselves at the expense of the general public. On this aspect of the subject, Smith’s

Weekly, of the 28th June, 1930, published the following comment: -

The nigger in the woodpile is represented by a group of Melbourne timber interests. With amazing audacity, this little coterie of importers has attempted to prevail on the Minister to enrich their pockets, and save their skins, at the expense of Australia, Seldom in the history of commercial warfare has such an unblushing change of front been seen.

Never in my experience have I known such an unblushing change” of ‘front. But the explanation is quite simple. These Melbourne timber merchants, having over-bought, decided to influence the Government to become a party to a transaction which, although entirely opposed to the best interests of the public, would enable them to protect themselves.

The quantity of oregon and baltic timber in Australia affected by the increase of these duties was 50,000,000 super, feet. This timber was imported when the duties . were lower, but the price of it has been increased in accordance with the higher duties now in operation. This meant that the timber merchants who owned the timber took from the pockets of the people no less a sum than £150,000. One can understand, in this circumstance, that this building rang with the reverberations of log-rolling at that time. As a money-making proposition, the scheme was far better than Lang’s lottery, for there was no risk in it. Moreover, the prize was not_ £5,000, but £150,000. I do not blame “the hardwood people for accepting the assistance of the softwood timber merchants in endeavouring to promote their interests. At the time the agitation for these high duties was going on, the secretary of the union affected was also working overtime driving from State to State in a brand new Packard car - a make of car which is usually possessed only by people of great wealth. But I blame the Government for allowing itself to be made an instrument for imposing additional expense on the general public.

There was no limit to the audacity of the people who were associated in promoting this scheme. The secretary of the Hardwood Association in one of the States wrote a letter to the leader of my party complaining of certain questions which I asked in this House.

He even had the audacity and effrontery to ask that I should be stopped from discussing this matter. Could effrontery’ go further than to request that the elected representative of the people should be prevented from expressing his opinions on the floor of this House? I mention this point to show the extent to which the people engaged in this wild raid upon the pockets of our citizens were prepared to go. They would stop at nothing to achieve their fell purpose. The owners of the baltic and Oregon to whom I have referred will now be able to secure £150,000 more for their timber than they have the right to expect; the hardwood people will have the satisfaction of knowing that very much heavier duties are being imposed on oregon and baltic-

Mr Marr:

– And the union secretary will have his car!

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– But are these the only parties to be considered? By no means! One party has been absolutely ignored by those who have so successfully striven after these additional advantages. There is another party at whose expense this advantage has been obtained: I refer to the users of Oregon, who should rise in their wrath because of the way in which they have been imposed upon by those whom I have just mentioned. The interests of oregon users were not considered for one moment ; they were merely asked to pay up, in order to benefit those who held large stocks. Those importers did not consider the position of suburban timber merchants who were unfortunate enough to be caught with timber on the water. Their interests were too small to be considered in this wild grab. They had merely to pay the higher duties imposed, which resulted in some of them appearing in the Bankruptcy Court. Later I shall supply ample evidence to prove that there is no economic substitute for oregon. I have not time to include this at present. These duties place an additional impost of £440,000 annually on the users of Oregon, because, regardless of the duties, a certain quantity of this timber must be used. In order to obtain supplies of an essential commodity, those engaged in the building trade have to pay nearly £500,000 in duty, which is eventually taken out of the pockets of the people. Oregon used for mining purposes is admitted free of duty, because no other timber is suitable for that purpose. Oregon is also essential in concrete constructional work, as no other timber can be utilized for that purpose. Further, it is an absolute necessity for constructing homes for the poorer section of the people. An ordinary weatherboard cottage, consisting of three rooms and a kitchen, and constructed in the customary method of using Oregon and Australian timbers, would cost £3221s. 5d. ; but, if constructed solely of Australian timber, would cost £405 17s. 9d., an increase of £83 16s. 4d., or 26.02 per cent.

Mr Curtin:

– Those figures are governed largely by the locality in which such a house is built.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– In this case the quotations are based on two houses, built in the same locality, and therefore the comparison cannot be challenged. Messrs. Howie and Moffatt, one of the best known contracting firms in Australia, which has just completed the Bank of New South Wales in Sydney, provided in the foregoing detailed estimates indisputable evidence that these duties place an unnecessarily heavy burden upon the working class of this community. I am not unmindful of the difficulties of those engaged in the hardwood trade; but they’ arc not comparable with the misery of the men who are compelled to walk the streets vainly seeking work in consequence of the inactivity in the building trade, due largely to the excessive cost oforegon and other building materials. These duties have been imposed owing to the ill-advised action of the Minister. The cost of buildings constructed in Sydney and suburbs for theyear 1928 was £9,768,000; in 1929, £9,070,000, and in 1930, £2,356,000.

Mr Martens:

– Why was the reduction so pronounced?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Largely in consequence of the excessive costs resulting from the imposition of these duties. The figures for the present year will be even worse.

Mr Forde:

– Does not the honorable member think that the general trade depression was largely responsible?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– But for the policy of this Government the depression would not have been so severe. Business men would have stimulated trade had the Government kept its nose out of the affairs of commerce. The greatest obstacle confronting business men to-day is the ill-advised and interfering attitude of this callow Minister for Trade and Customs, who places his opinions before men who have given their lives to the businesses in which they are engaged. These duties are of no benefit to the hardwood timber industry. If an embargo were placed upon the importation of

Oregon, what would be used in its place? Either New Zealand rimu or cement or asbestos sheeting.

The Tariff Board sets out quite clearly that much of the depression in the hardwood industry is due to lack of organization on the part of those engaged in that industry. “ Much of the difficulty experienced by local sawmillers in disposing of timber,” says the Tariff Board, “ is due to the absence of organized methods of marketing and selling their timbers.” The board also says -

Another mutter which culls for seriousconsideration is that of bringing about a reduction of mills. Many of these mills ceased operations, but even at the present time it would appear that the industry is over burdened with saw-mills operating individually. The effect of this is: (1) intensified competition; (2) ratio of invested capital to business unsound ; (3) ratio of overhead charges to output excessive. [Quorum formed.]

Hardwood can never take the place of baltic flooring, except where it is specially required. Both classes of timber have definite economic uses, and to attempt to substitute the one for the other, even to a limited extent, is about as foolish as expecting a man to wear his boots where his hat ought to be. These duties have also prevented the importation of a paltry £150,000 worth of Japanese oak which was very useful in filling up vessels and decreasing the freight rates to Australia, about which we are complaining at the present time. Australia exports to Japan goods to the value of £11,518,986, and imports from that country only £4,707,299 worth. Japanese oak is used merely for furniture, and the Australian trade in it has not increased over a number of years. The importations were doing no harm to any one, but the prohibition of this timber has interfered with our commercial relations with Japan, and engendered a bad feeling in that country towards Australia. Norway and Sweden take from us, through Great Britain, infinitely more than we take from them ; but by stopping the importation of Baltic timbers we have set up against ourselves potentially disgruntled nations, inasmuch as they can rightly claim that they get from us no consideration for the produce they buy from us. It is useless to say that we can live to ourselves. It is all very well for those who have never been outside Australia, or even outside their own State, and who never read anything to improve their minds, to argue that Australia need take no notice of the other nations of the world. We live by selling to the other nations, and we cannot afford to ignore them in the way we are doing. As a protest against these duties, I move an amendment to restore the rates to those in existence in 1927-28. I move-

That the sub-item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after 9th October, 1931-

  1. Timber, undressed, viz.: -

Douglas Fir [Pseudotsuga Doug- lasii) -

In sizes of 12 inches by6 inches (or its equivalent) and over -

For use underground for mining purposes as prescribed by departmental by-laws, British, free; intermediate, free; general, free;

Other, per 100 super. feet, British, 8s. ; intermediate, 8s. ; general, 8s.

In sizes of 7 inches by 2½ inches (or its equivalent) and upwards, and less than 12 inches by6 inches (or its equivalent) per 100 super. feet, British, 9s. 6d. ; intermediate, 9s.6d. ; general, 9s.6d.

In sizes less than 7 inches by 2) inches (or its equivalent) per 100 super. feet, British,11s.; intermediate.11s.; general, l1s.

Mr GULLETT:
Henty

.- In the timber division of this schedule, there are about 50 items, covering the whole range of timbers in use in Australia, but I do not feel in the least competent to discuss them, although I venture to say that I know as much about them as most honorable members. Mostly as the result of brain waves on the part of the Minister, and to some extent, as the result of a number of most unsatisfactory hole-and-corner conferences among interested parties, the Government, flouting the reports of the Tariff Board, has proposed drastic changes in the rates of duty. The timber industry is in a most chaotic state so far as the tariff is concerned. No one can have the faintest idea what effect these duties are likely to have, whether the benefits to the sawmillers will not be altogether nullified by the financial punishment inflicted on every user of timber in the community. It is not possible for the committee to debate these alterations intelligently, nor is the Minister capable of explaining his reasons for making them. I, therefore, suggest that the whole of the timber items of this’ schedule afford a first-class opportunity to the Government to break new ground in the way of tariff inquiry. I have long been of opinion that it is impossible for a Tariff Board of four members to cover adequately the whole range of Australian industries, and my suggestion is that the Minister should set up a special board of inquiry into the whole range of the timber industry, and that upon that board there should be representatives of every ramification of the industry; the saw-millers, the timber merchants, the master builders, the users of timbers, and the important industrial unions concerned. As the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) in his excellent speech has pointed out, there is a very definite” conflict of opinion between the various industries affected by these duties. I protest against this awful mess we have had presented to us. Nothing could be less businesslike, nothing more obscure than this range of duties. I beg of the Minister to take away these items from Parliament for the time being, and have an investigation into the industry that will command some respect from the people of the Commonwealth.

Mr CURTIN:
Fremantle

.- I feel disposed to welcome the suggestion of the honorable member for Henty (Mr.

Gullett). I say that as one who has had some reason for endeavouring to understand the extraordinary intricacies of the timber industry. -I mentioned last night that for five years I was federal president of the Timber Workers Federation of Australia, and in that capacity I found it extremely difficult to reconcile the variations of the points of view of the timber employees, let alone the employers, in the various States, and it was almost an impossibility for the federal council of the union to arrive at a tariff policy. As a result, such representations as were made to Ministers at that time with respect to the tariff were made by State branches, acting independently of the federation, and usually in association with the employers of their own particular States. Thus, frequently the Timber Workers Federal Council was faced with the extraordinary spectacle of a branch union acting in combination with the employers o’f its State to impose upon the country generally a tariff policy to which the timber-workers of the other States were entirely opposed. I ask those honorable members who believe that the difficulties of the timber industry at this period are attributable to the deficiencies of the tariff, to consider this extraordinary position : there is considerable unemployment in the brickmaking industry of Australia. The decline in the demand for bricks has been almost as great proportionately as the decline in the demand for timber; but it surely cannot be said that the losses suffered in the brick-making industry are attributable to the inadequacy of the tariff in respect of the protection afforded to the workers.

Mr Gullett:

– Has not the Minister placed a duty on bricks?

Mr CURTIN:

– No.

Mr Gullett:

– Surely that is an overnight.

Mr CURTIN:

– There are proportionately as many unemployed in the brick-making industry as in the timber industry. The decline in the demand for timber, as in the demand for bricks, is due, in part, to the general depression ; but before the depression made any of its evil effects manifest in Australia, there had been a decline in both the brick-making and the timber industries, because of the advent of concrete and steel increasing factors in large building construction. The gradual alteration of architectural practice, particularly in the principal cities, meant necessarily the use of diminishing quantities of timber and bricks in building construction. Even in what we regard as pre-depression times, the timber and the brick-making industries were being adversely affected because of the development of new methods of construction. Let us examine the alterations in the duties. Take for instance oregon logs in the rough. The old duty was 5 per cent., 5 per cent, and 10 per cent., and the new duty is 10 per cent., 20 per cent, and 30 per cent. In the old days the duty on oregon brought in to be sawn on the benches - size, 12 inches by 6 inches - was 8s., 8s. and 8s. per 100 super, feet. It is now proposed to substitute a duty of 13s., 13s. and 14s. per 100 super, feet. Let me tell the Minister that the proposed duty is practically prohibitive. It ensures either that

Oregon will not be imported, or that, if it i3 imported, its price will be such as to make its use almost prohibitive. There is an intimate relation between the price which .the millers charge for Australian hardwood and that at which oregon is available in Australia. When I was associated’ with the Timber Workers Union, we could always estimate the price of either hardwood or Oregon by the price of the other. Those who are familiar with the industry must admit that Oregon has its special uses. That is admitted even in respect of the tariff, because oregon for mining purposes is admitted free, but this class of timber has a special use in building construction. I do not say that it is essential to use. oregon to the extent to which it was used prior to 1911; but, with regard to certain types of roofing, it is desirable to have a satisfactory tensile strength without having excessive weight’. For that purpose, in certain classes of structures, any architect who knows his business specifies oregon. I therefore do not propose to support a policy which will make it impossible for oregon to be used in Australia except for mining purposes. In adopting that attitude, I believe that I am acting in the best interests of the timber industry. There has to be competition with the Australian hardwood millers if we are to protect the public. 1 say that as one who bad to fight the timber employers for many years. Only last, week I informed honorable members on this side of the chamber that the timber employers in Western Australia had been successful in having wages reduced by 18 per cent.; but it cannot be urged that that attack upon the workers’ standard of living in Western Australia was made necessary by the importation of oregon which made it impossible for the local industry to be successful. The employers’ case was based on high freights and costs, and the fall in the market prices. No one put forward the plea that the industry in Western Australia was lacking in prosperity because of the excessive importation of Oregon. Let me tell honorable members who accept the statements of the members of the Victorian Hardwood Millers Association, in respect of the fairness of the prices charged by them, that the average hardwood miller is simply the dummy for a city timber merchant, and is allowed to put up a case in support of increased duties on oregon in order that the price of hardwood may be advanced.

Mr Jones:

– The price of Australian hardwood, since these duties have been imposed, has been reduced by 30 per cent.

Mr CURTIN:

– That is because the millers cannot sell their stocks of hardwood. The existing competition in selling prices has no relation to ordinary business practice. It is in part attributable to the effect of certain firms being obliged to realize their assets in order to meet their obligations. We have therefore had this undoubted unloading of stocks. Those who believe that the legislation of this Parliament is treated fairly by the employers have to remember that the sugar agreement is at present being grossly abused by the Colonial Sugar Refinery Company, despite its assurances to the contrary. I represent the workers, and I refuse to accept the declarations of any group of employers that they will not increase prices if granted these concessions. I know that, at the first opportunity, they would exploit the public. The prohibition of the importation of oregon into the Commonwealth would give Australian hardwood millers an opportunity that they would not otherwise possess, and I know Australian hardwood associations enough to believe that they would take that opportunity to pluck the public.

Can any honorable member seriously claim that it is necessary to impose a duty of 13s. per 100 super. feet on 12-in. by 10-in. oregon in order to protect the Australian hardwood industry? Why, fourteen or fifteen years ago we could buy oregon in Australia for 25s. a hundred super feet. The proposed duty represents an extortionate impost. If the Australian hardwood industry cannot carry on with the existing duties, it cannot carry on at all. I remind the honorable member for Indi (Mr. Jones) how the Australian timber employers fought the strike of workmen, only a few years ago. I remember honorable members on this side, who were then in opposition, railing at the Timber Merchants Association. Then, honorable members would not accept their assurances that they were bona fide, honest men. Since then the timber merchants have availed themselves of every opportunity to reduce the wages of their employees. How comes it that honorable members on this side are now prepared to accept their declaration that, if overseas competition is shut out. they will be fair to the Australian public? As a general practice they have not been fair either to the Australian public, or to their employees. I see no reason why I should give these people an absolute monopoly of the Australian market, and I refuse to vote for the increased duties.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I cannot allow to go unchallenged the statements of the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill), which really give voice to the brief that he holds from the importing saw-milling interests of Sydney. My purpose is to conserve the interests and promote the development of our primary industries; it is my desire to see our own timber used for constructional work, and the trade stimulated.

The assertions of the honorable member for Warringah are not borne out by facts. He stated that when the Government increased the duties on oregon and baltic pine, there was an accumulation of imported softwood timbers ‘in this country amounting to 70,000,000 super, feet. He implied that the Government had done something that was not honorable; that its action in increasing the duty had enabled timber importing concerns to reap a benefit of £150,000. He said that the importers after flooding the market arranged with the Government for the imposition of a high duty so that they could make huge profits. If. the honorable member were conversant with the facts lie -would know that for months before the imposition of those duties the timber interests of Australia had been endeavouring to persuade the Government to increase the duty, or even place an embargo, on oregon. While the Government delayed in taking action, timber importers accumulated huge stocks at the old rates of duty. “ That is why there was 70,000,000 super, feet of Oregon in stock in Australia when the new duties become operative, and why there is now such a dearth of employment in our forests and saw-mills. Howover, it is not fair that the honorable member should say that this Government co-operated with the importing interests, and enabled them to flood the market. Actually, the new rates were imposed originally at the request of the timberworkers, who pointed to the need for greater protection against the imported article. To illustrate his point that the increased duty on Oregon had killed the building trade the honorable member stated that in 1929 the building activities carried out in Sydney amounted to £9,071,000, while in 1930 they had fallen to £2,356,000, due, he declared, to the high duties on imported timber. The honorable member made no reference to the depression, which, obviously, brought about the decline. That is a typical instance of the weakness of the case adduced by him.

I am afraid that the honorable member is not concerned about any additional cost in the workers’ homes; he seeks rather to conserve the interests of the timber importers. If he had his way he would flood Australia with importations, cause a dearth of employment, and reduce our workers to the coolie level. If we have any regard for the interests of our workers we must protect Australian industries.

The honorable member also stated that, oregon is a necessity; that it is brought in free for mining purposes and for use as scaffolding. It is; and it is used in only one mine in Australia - that of the Broken Hill Proprietary Limited. For years the great mines in Queensland have used our own hardwoods, and to-day those timbers are sound, and standing up to the job splendidly. No other timber in the world will stand a greater strain than Australian hardwood, which could advantageously be substituted at Broken Hill for oregon. We have pine’ in Australia that is admirably suited for scaffolding, and available in any lengths required. Everywhere in my State firstclass timbers are waiting the application of the axe, ready for use in the country that has grown them. In my own district there are great pine scrubs, where timber is rotting and going to waste because unpatriotic timber merchants prefer the imported article. Equally as good as Oregon, that pine is there in quantity, and Australian workers are available, anxious to hew and market it.

The honorable member for Warringah declared that, except in special instances, hardwood cannot take the place of baltic for flooring. I submit that there is no timber on the market more suited for flooring purposes than Australian hardwood. It is astounding and unfortunate that Australia, and particularly New South Wales, has not used more of its own hardwood for flooring. The honorable member stated that, if a threeroomed weatherboard cottage were constructed of Australian instead of imported timber, it would cost an additional £83 6s. 4d. If that is so, it is rather curious that the poorer workers of Queensland did not construct their homes of imported timber. Invariably they U3ed the local -article, and they possess the cheapest and most satisfactory homes that could bc built. I venture the opinion, that it is not the shortcomings of Australian timbers that caused the honorable member to make such statements. His attitude can be attributed to other motives. We know that, whether it be for the cottage of the worker, the mansion of the magnate, or the imposing edifices of the business world, Australian timbers are unsurpassed.

The honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) intimated that the hardwood millers of Victoria act as dummies for the city merchants. That cannot be said generally of’ our hardwood millers. In my State, the . hardwood miller is usually interested in the hewing and hauling of the timber, as well as in its later treatment. Our railways, which were constructed to open up our vast hinterland, will lose even more heavily if we encourage the importation of foreign timbers.

A pastoralist in my electorate ringbarked some millions of feet of hardwood, upon which the Forestry Board charged him a royalty, declaring it to be saleable. When he endeavoured to market it, he could not obtain 6d. per 100 superficial feet for it. The reason is that this 70,000,000 superficial feet of oregon is in the hands of merchants in our two leading capital cities, people who have disseminated propaganda lauding the alleged advantages of the imported article and belittling our own timbers.

The honorable member for Fremantle said that it is necessary to have the competition afforded by the importation of

Oregon, otherwise our hardwood millers will exploit the public. That is not the case in Queensland.

Mr Maxwell:

– Would the hardwood millers be likely to tell the honorable member if it were so?

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– The teamsters and timber-cutters would very quickly make it known if it were so. In my State the timber interests and the public work amicably together to advance the local timber industry. The honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) does not regard the timber merchants as honest men. I condemn the importation of oregon, becauseI believe that we should use the timber which grows in this country. We have the timber and also the men, the teams, the tractors, the railways, and the roads to convey it to the users; but for lack of sufficient protection to the local industry, imported timber is used in large quantities throughout Australia. It is time that we took adequate steps to protect this native industry against imported timber. [Quorum- formed.]

Mr FROST:
Franklin

.- I agree with the honorable member for Wide Bay’ (Mr. Corser) that we should protect the Australian timber industry. Indeed, I regret that the Minister has not seen his way to place an embargo on the importation of timber from other countries. Honorable members opposite have decried Australian timbers. The honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) said that it will not carry heavy weights, that it is brittle and breaks easily, and is unsuitable for many purposes. At one time, I was employed in one of the largest mines in Australia, in which Australian timber was used exclusively. That timber was so satisfactory that when one stope was worked out, the timber was, contrary to the mining regulations, removed and’ used elsewhere. Only sound timber could be used in that way.

Mr Hawker:

– That could not have been done had the timber been called upon to bear much weight.

Mr FROST:

– Australian timber is also used in the Queensland mines. Unfortunately, we have allowed the Broken Hill mines to be timbered with imported oregon. Had the use of oregon been prevented in the beginning the mining companies there would have been forced to use Australian timber. Their unpatriotic action in using imported timber in preference to timber grown in Australia is to be regretted.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Why did not the honorable member object yesterday? The item went through on the voices.

Mr FROST:

– We, on this side, are adhering to the schedule; the honorable member accepts the policy laid down by the importers. It has also been coptended that it is necessary to import baltic timber for flooring purposes. Australia has many timbers suitable for that purpose. Indeed, many European experts are of the opinion that Australian hardwoods are superior to most other timbers for use as flooring boards. . Australia has exported many millions of feet of flooring timbers. Some years ago, Tasmania sent some magnificent timber to England to be used in the construction. of a breakwater at Dover. Some of that timber was 20 inches by 20 inches and 120 feet long.

Mr Maxwell:

– Is the honorable member advocating the removal of the duty?

Mr FROST:

– I am in favour of an embargo on the importation of oregon. Four years ago, the timber-workers of Tasmania were in constant employment and earning good wages ; to-day there are 1,000 timber-workers unemployed in that State. Instead of there being villages of contented, happy people, the timberworkers and their families are destitute and depressed. During the recent adjournment, I met Mr. Burgess, the warden of the Esperance district, who told me that in the timber districts of Tasmania, from’ which he had just returned, the people were practically starving. As pointed out by the honorable member for Indi (Mr. Jones) yesterday, these timbergetters are a superior class of men. Although many of them are almost as powerful as giants, they are unable to make a living because of the competition from imported timbers.

I agree with a good deal that has been said regarding the distribution of timber throughout Australia. The high price of timber is due, not to high wages being paid to the timber-workers, or to any excessive profits made by the millowners, but to the charges made by city distributing merchants. The Government should have some control of the selling price of commodities which are protected. If that were the case, the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) would have no ground for complaint that a prohibitive duty on timber would lead to the exploitation of the timber-users in Australia. The Indi district of Victoria contains some of the finest forests in the world ; yet men there are unable to make a livelihood because of the importation oftimber from other countries. Honorable members opposite have contended that if we did not import timber, our own forests would be denuded of timber in a few years. That is not so. Each year millions of feet of timber are lost through bush fires and the ravages of various pests. A proper system of afforestation would ensure an almost unlimited supply of timber, because the timber in our forests is growing faster than it is being used. I trust that the committee will not agree to a reduction of the duty.

Mr PRICE:
Boothby

. -I have listened with interest to the remarks of honorable members as to the relative merits of various timbers. Australia is far behind the rest of the world in afforestation matters. In South Aus tralia a good deal has been done, chiefly with softwoods. If it could be shown that Australian timbers are suitable for all purposes, I should be pleased, but although I regard the Australian timber industry as one of great importance to this country, I doubt whether Australian hardwood is as suitable as oregon for certain purposes. I have had some experience in the building trade, and regret to have to admit that, in my opinion, oregon is more suitable than Australian hardwood for roofing purposes.

Mr Culley:

– Does the honorable member mean that it is more durable?

Mr PRICE:

– In every way oregon is superior to hardwood as a roofing timber. The Tariff Board, in reporting on the substitution of Australian timber for

Oregon, and in referring to the State of South Australia, remarked -

This State produces practically no hardwoods suitable for building purposes. As to softwoods, considerable areas have been planted with pines, but these plantations will not be producing supplies of timber in any material quantities for some years. Very few wooden houses are built in South Australia, the large proportion of the buildings being of stone or brick. Hardwoods are obtainedfrom other States, principally stringy-bark from Tasmania and jarrah from Western Australia. These hardwoods are used for purposes where strength is the main requirement, but oregon is used almost without exception for roofing purposes.

Owing to the climatic conditions in South Australia, hardwood timbers are not suitable for roofing purposes. Saw-millers contend that, if hardwood can be used for roofing purposes in Tasmania, it should be suitable for that purpose in South Australia, but the experience in the building trade in my State is that the hardwood scantling timbers produced in Tasmania warp and twist when used in South Australia, owing, as I have said, to the hot and dry climatic conditions. The report of the Tariff Board continued -

After reviewing the position in the principal importing States, the board is satisfied that the most hopeful result that could be anticipated from the adoption of the proposals put forward regarding oregon is the replacement of oregon by Australian hardwood to the extent of, at the most, 40,000,000 super, feet per annum (i.e., in normal times) out of the average importation of 200,000,000 super, feet.

The heavy duty on oregon has not had the effect of increasing the output of Australian hardwood as a substitute for

Oregon; it has rather proved a burden to industry. The duty of 8s. per 100 super, feet is, in the case of merchantable oregon, in the vicinity of 110 per cent, ad valorem. I realize that the Government imposed the high duty on oregon for the purpose of encouraging Australian industry. That is a most laudable objective, and I hope that in those States where hardwoods are suitable for building purposes they will he used. In a letter that I have received from the Builders and Contractors Association of South Australia, the following passage occurs: -

We again approach you in reference to the duty on oregon. The building trade in this State is at a standstill. Wo have practically no bush mills in South Australia, and oregon must be used for roofing, &c. We do not know of any work where hardwood has replaced Oregon, and given extra employment in the mills.

No extra employment has been given to employees in bush mills in this State, but unemployment has been caused by this overloading, which means about £16 per house, and which has to be carried for all time.

Let me now give a Victorian opinion. The Reinforced Concrete and Monier Pipe Construction Company Proprietary Limited, Melbourne, in a letter to me, dated the 23rd June, state -

We should like to add our protest against the excessive duty on oregon timber, which matter, ‘we understand, you are proposing to bring forward in the House. We have been very large users of Oregon in our work for the past 25 years, and, on account of the very high cost of this material, have, from time to Lime, made many experiments with other timbers - particularly with hardwood. The results of all our experiments have been most unsatisfactory, and we have been forced back to Oregon, or in some cases baltic T. and G. sheeting. Our local hardwood is entirely unsuitable for reinforced concrete work, not only on account of its hardness making it much more COStlY than oregon in respect of labour, but because it warps and shrinks so that the necessary watertight forming for concrete cannot be obtained. This condition is generally reached before any concrete can be laid on it, and, in any case, the hardwood can only be used once, as against repeated use of oregon. The position, therefore, is that the cost of all reinforced concrete structures is seriously increased by the high cost of the essential timber for this work, and any relief that may be possible in respect of the cost of this material would affect all concrete structures throughout Australia.

Mr. H. E. Reid, of Reid Brothers, Port Adelaide, is an expert on timber, and he has supplied me with the following information concerning the commercial possibilities of pinus insignis: -

The timber to which pinus insignis must be compared when considering its market value is Oregon. At the present time pinus insignis costs no less than 7s. 6d. per 100 feet super, more delivered at Port Adelaide than oregon. This fact, coupled with the inferiority of the timber itself, as compared with Oregon for general purposes renders it a hopeless proposition. The material would have to be stocked in a variety of small sizes, whereas overseas timber is imported in large flitches and can be cut up as required. . . .

The fact that constructional timbers such as oregon are often needed in lengths of 40 to 50 feet preclude all possibility of using pinus insignis in its place, as, not only is this timber unobtainable in long lengths, but even if it were, the inherent weakness of the timber is such as to render ineffectual the very object for which long lengths are needed.

Joinery. - Providing that exceptional care is allowed in selecting the materials - and an allowance of about 50 per cent, made for waste more than the timber commonly used for this purpose - it could be used, but even then it must be kiln dried. It is asserted by tradesmen that, in any case, it is not suitable for sashes, doors, door frames, or casement frames. For box-frames and other joinery requiring only small sizes and short lengths of timber, it has been used; but, considering that tho use is restricted to these lines, and the care that ‘has to be exercised in selection, together with waste, it is not really a commercial proposition for this purpose.

For Other Purposes. - While it is known that selected material has been used in the Architect-in-Chief’s jobs for floorings, and very occasionally for joinery, the merchants have every reason to believe that they would only be supplied with the material which would be left after the Government had selected the best quality stuff for themselves. The fact must also be borne in mind, when discussing the Government jobs which have used this timber, that the material has only been put in the jobs because the specifications have forced the builders to use it irrespective of their own personal opinions on the matter.

The royal commission which investigated the finances of South Australia, as they were affected by federation, reported at page 25 -

Oregon pine imported from the United States of America, and flooring boards and deals imported from Norway and- Sweden, all of which are necessary for building construction, und which constitute the major portion of timber used in an average dwelling-house, cannot be adequately replaced by Australian-grown timber. The abnormally high tariff on these timbers ha3 the effect of imposing an additional burden on South Australia as compared with the other five States, due to the fact that the requirements of the latter are partially mct by locally-grown timber.

Speaking for the State of South Australia, I say that our hardwoods cannot take the place of Oregon. Consequently, I intend to oppose the increased duty.

Mr MARTENS:
Herbert

.- I support the increased duty. It is suggested that Oregon is necessary for very many purposes. It certainly is debatable whether wc possess a timber that can replace it for high scaffolding work. If there is such a timber, I do not know of it. I have gone into this matter very carefully with persons whom I can trust in the fullest sense, both employers of labour and employees, and they are unanimously of the opinion that it would be difficult, if not impossible, for Australia to provide a timber that is suitable for scaffolding purposes. 1 wish to discuss the matter principally from the point of view of the mining industry. In the State of Queensland, there are many very big mines which have used an enormous quantity of timber. It is a long time since a number of them have been worked, yet the timber which they contain is as good to-day as when it was put’ in. The timbers that have been mostly used are ironbark and bluegum. After Mr Morgan had been operating for a considerable number of years, the company undertook to try out the open cut system of mining. Only the first two levels were worked on that system, and an enormous stack of timber was taken from them. I was privileged to be present when Mr. Justice Webb, the late Mr. W. J. Dunstan, and the late Hon. W. N. Gillies, on one occasion, visited Mr Morgan to sit in that town as an industrial court. In the company of Mr. Boyd. the general manager, we inspected the timber taken from the first two levels, and found that it was quite as good as when it was put in 30 or 40 years previously. There is no denying the weight that has to be held up by timber in the Mr Morgan mine, and the same applies to the Scottish mine in Gympie. A terrific weight in the shape of a mountain is borne in the different levels of the Mr Morgan mine; yet very little, if any, oregon has been used there. It has been suggested that oregon is necessary for building purposes. Very little is used in Queensland except in the case of a few big buildings, and then only because . it is cheaper than Australian timber. That is largely the reason which underlies the advocacy of the use of

Oregon to a greater extent than other timbers. Millions of feet of it were imported during the regime of the last- Government. Many other imported articles that are to-day being replaced by those that are manufactured in Australia, come within the same category. For years the argument was advanced that Australia was not capable of providing at a suitable price, what its citizens needed. That idea is gradually being dissipated. ‘We can provide the different timbers that are needed for various purposes, but we must dispel the impression that the imported article is needed if the job is to be done properly. The honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) quoted certain figures relating to costs. I am not prepared to lock horns with him on that phase of the matter, but I can say that we have all the timbers which are required for the construction of the houses of which he spoke. I agree with the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin), who, by way of interjection, said that it would depend very largely on the locality in which the houses were built, as to whether that was the case or not.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– I have taken two in the same locality.

Mr MARTENS:

– I shall not discuss that aspect of the matter. I say that we have the requisite timber in abundance. I agree with the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Frost) that when timber is matured it should be harvested, and that if it is not, it deteriorates, as the result of the activities of pests, dry rot, and the like. Yesterday, the honorable member for Gippsland (Mr. Pater son) expressed the belief that the reduction of royalties might have a very good effect on the timber industry. I believe that royalties are altogether too high. But there is something that is even worse, and that is a practice which has been adopted by different governments, particularly the Governments of the State from which I come, both past and present. I have had arguments on the subject with Mr. Swain, and also with Mr. McCormack, when he was Minister for Lands in that State. The practice to which I refer is to place an upset price on standing timber, and then sell it by auction, the result being that the person who wishes to build a home has to pay an excessive price for the timber on account of the competition that is thereby instigated. When an upset price is placed on timber by the departmental officers, that ought to provide a sufficient return. The only person who benefits from the present arrangement is the miller, who is able to pay a high figure for the timber. He operates through a dummy, who frequently is involved financially with him, and thus is the victim of circumstance. The dummy allegedly is the purchaser, but he derives no benefit except the honour and glory of harvesting the timber for the miller and the merchants in town. [ am prepared to do all that is possible to prevent the importation of either Oregon or any other timber so long as we Iia ve timber that is suitable for the work that has to bo done. Consequently, I have no hesitation in supporting the Minister in his attempt to improve the market for our own product. I do not believe that the amount of duty imposed is more than is necessary for the protection of our own industry. I am of the opinion that oregon has been used in this country because it has been cheap, and because it can be dumped here at a rate at which our timber cannot compete with it.

Another great difficulty with which the industry has to contend, was mentioned yesterday. An enormous number of sawmills have been established, which to-day arc causing a lot of trouble, because the quantity of timber available for sawmilling purposes is not sufficient to keep them all functioning uninterruptedly. That, however, is a small factor, which is hardly worth considering in the general sense.

I contend that we have an ample supply of timber for all our needs, except for scaffolding purposes. I would be prepared to allow oregon to be imported free of duty for that purpose. I am not a revenue tariffist, and do not believe that it is a good proposition to impose duties merely with that object. If we cannot produce any commodity which the people need, it should be allowed to come in free of duty so that it can be purchased as cheaply as possible. At the same time, I admit the soundness of the contention of the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin), that the merchants will take advantage of the duty to make as much profit as possible. That, however, applies to every walk of life. It has been suggested that the Colonial Sugar Refining Company has committed a breach of the sugar agreement, but that company did not act. alone in that matter. In the application to the court it had associated with it a number of other parties. A monopoly will not be given to the timber merchants to any greater extent” than that which they, possess at the present time. With all due deference to any opinions that may be bold to the contrary, I say that the presence of oregon in Australia to-day does not affect very greatly the selling price of timber so far as the consumers are concerned.

Mr LATHAM:
Kooyong

.- I should feel more satisfied in regard to these proposals could I obtain replies to representations that have been made to me by timber merchants and builders. I regard the timber industry as subsidiary to the building industry, the furnituremaking industry, and the like. It is no good doing anything to timber that will prevent its use for building and other purposes. If the effect of imposing a duty is to increase building costs in such a measure that there is no compensation by way of increased employment in the Australian timber industry, obviously the duty cannot be justified. Oregon, as we all know, is a very fine timber, indeed, for many purposes, and I wish that Australia were fortunate enough to possess it in large quantities. We have extensive hardwood forests, but not so extensive as many people imagine. I have been I old by many responsible people -that were we to go straight ahead in the use of our hardwoods for all building purposes, the stock of usable hardwood would not last for more than fifteen or twenty years.

Mr Frost:

– That statement differs from the opinion of experts.

Mr LATHAM:

– That is the view of some experts; I should like to hear that of others. In quoting prices, one has to distinguish between the price at sidings and the price at the yards; but I think I am safe in saying that, speaking generally, the price of Oregon is at least twice that of hardwood at the present time. I have been informed that, under existing conditions, notwithstanding the considerably higher price of Oregon and the fact that, in Victoria at any rate, the price of hardwood has recently been decreased, the- sales of oregon are being maintained in the same proportion to hardwood sales as was formerly the case. I am unable to believe that there is a general conspiracy against the use of Australian woods. It is to everybody’s interest, except possibly that of a few importers, that Australian wood shall be used to a maximum extent. If it be the case that oregon sales are maintaining their proportion - having regard, of course, to the greatly reduced building activity which is at once the sign, the symbol, and the result of the prevailing depression - it appears to. me to be very difficult to justify an increase of the duty, allegedly in order to help the Australian timber industry. If these be the facts, and surely they are readily enough ascertainable, the imposition of higher duties will not really assist the Australian timber industry in competition with oregon, but, on the contrary, will make it still more difficult and expensive to build than was the case previously. Like every other honorable member, I have some personal knowledge of the value of Australian hardwood. I have Tasmanian weatherboards and flooring in a house, and I do not wish to see anything better. It is a splendid wood, beautifully turned out, but expensive. Still, J was prepared to pay the price, and I am proud of it. On the other hand, I have had Victorian hardwood which was not a credit to anybody, because so much of it was sap wood and badly seasoned.

Mr Martens:

– That was not the fault of the timber itself.

Mr LATHAM:

– It was the fault of the suppliers. I merely mention the fact because I consider that some timber suppliers need to develop a better sense of their responsibility to an important Australian industry. On one occasion, when I asked to be supplied with the best hardwood timber procurable, I was furnished with timber that was not at all satisfactory. One external floor has been renewed three times in twelve years. It is now down in jarrah, another Australian timber, but more expensive, and I have no doubt that it will see me out. In not a few instances the reputation of Australian hardwood suffers, not because the timber itself is faulty, but because suppliers have not a proper sense of their responsibility. For this reason I should like to see some definite, action taken by the Australian timber industry to maintain and enhance the reputation of our very fine timbers. .If it be a fact that sales of oregon, in relation to hardwood sales, are being maintained in much the same proportion as hitherto, we are not likely to assist the Australian timber industry by these duties. The only effect of them will be to increase the cost of building. When I consider the excessive duties that have been levied on glass, galvanized iron, and many other commodities, and think what house-building is going to cost in the future, I feel that I must be satisfied on the points which I have raised, before I can support these duties.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I listened attentively to the speech and considered carefully the amendment moved by the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill). I should like to oblige the honorable gentleman, but i/ I accepted his amendment it would mean a reduction of 6s. per 100 super, feet on oregon, in sizes 12 in. by 6 in., a reduction of 4s. 6d. per 100 super, feet on sizes 12 in. by 10 in., and 7 in. ov 2 1/2 in.

Mr Paterson:

– How does the Minister arrive at his calculation as to the reduction of 6s. per 100 super, feet?

Mr FORDE:

– That is the difference between the rates in the schedule and those proposed by the honorable member for Warringah. The honorable gentleman complained also that the Government did not give effect to the Tariff Board’s recommendations. I remind him that, in common with all governments, the Bruce-Page Government found that these timber duties were the most vexatious and perplexing in the schedule. In 1926 the Tariff Board made a certain recommendation with regard to timber duties, but the then Minister for Trade and Customs, the late Mr. Pratten, did not accept it.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Yes he did, but the committee amended the Minister’s proposals.

Mr FORDE:

– The Government of the day departed from the recommendation of the Tariff Board, and finally there was a diversity of opinion even amongst members of the Ministry.

Mr Latham:

– That is not so. The Government voted solidly for its proposals, but everybody else voted against the Ministry on that item.

Mr FORDE:

– It is a fact, nevertheless, that when it suited its purpose, the Bruce-Page Government disregarded the recommendations of the Tariff Board. All honorable members will recall that when the timber duties were being discussed on that occasion, strong representations were made for or against the duties in the schedule. That has always been our experience in tariff debates.

Mr Prowse:

– Has not the Minister done enough wrecking in tariff legislation already?

Mr FORDE:

– This Government is endeavouring, by means of its tariff policy, to build up Australian industries. The honorable member for Warringah, in his opposition to these duties, quoted certain statements that appeared in Smith’s Weekly. I have no doubt that the information supplied to that newspaper came from the same source as the information used by the honorable member this afternoon, namely, from the timber importing interests in Sydney, which have been right up against these duties ever since they were imposed. They are prepared to use Smith’s Weekly, the” honorable member, or anybody who is willing to voice their objections to the Government’s policy. The honorable gentleman also attributed the decline in* building activities throughout the Commonwealth to these higher timber duties. The real cause is to be found in the shrinkage of the national income by £200,000,000, and the fact that the Commonwealth can no longer borrow yearly £40,000,000 overseas, by which means this country enjoyed a condition of artificial prosperity for so many years. The3e factors, more than the incidence of the timber duties, are responsible for a falling off in building activities throughout the Commonwealth. If people could have obtained’ the timber for nothing there would have been little, if any, more building, because of late there has not been the demand for houses, and, as. a result, the building trade is passing through a period of severe depression. There are thousands of empty houses in. all our capital cities, and in the larger provincial centres of population. Many people, .instead of living in homes of their own, are now in tenements. Therefore it is sheer nonsense to attribute the depression in the building trade to the timber duties imposed by this Government. When framing its tariff -policy, the Governmenthad to bear in mind the fact that our overseas commitments required the payment annually of approximately £48,000,000. Accordingly, we deemed it desirable to increase the protection on those products which we can manufacture or grow in Australia. Timber being one, we resolved that, so far as possible, Australia’s requirements should be supplied from local sources. Our trade agreement with Canada permits the importation of Canadian timber under favorable terms, and in return we have been able to secure a generous measure of preference for Australian primary products in the Canadian market. Possibly, there is no other commodity covered by the present tariff resolution concerning which such greatly divergent views are held even by those holding definitely protectionist opinions. Briefly stated, it might be said that there are three distinct schools of thought regarding the effects of protective duties in the local timber industry. The first school maintains that the quantities of hardwood timber employed vary in proportion to the quantities of softwood timbers used, and that extensive use of softwood timbers will mean an increased demand for Australian hardwoods. The second school of thought believes that the world is approaching a timber famine, and therefore that it is foolish for us to deplete our forest reserves when we can purchase timber from other countries at low prices. The third school contends that softwood timbers definitely compete with hardwood timbers, and that it is essential to impose protective duties in order to ensure the use of our hardwoods. Not one of these three schools of thought is quite correct in its assumptions, but there is a degree of truth in each of them. The adherents of the first school take the view that softwood and hardwood each has its definite uses, and that one cannot, with advantage, be substituted for the other. They also urge that, the cheaper softwood timbers are, the better it is for the hardwood milling interests, because more building operations will be undertaken at the lower rates. Among the adherents of the second school of thought are numbered many of our forestry experts and advisers. Consequently, careful attention must be given to their views. I have had many interesting conversations with Mr. LanePoole, the Commonwealth forestry adviser, who believes that within the next twenty years there will be a timber famine in Australia, and indeed in the southern hemisphere. The theory of adherents of the third school of thought is endorsed by all those who urge that the arguments advanced for protection generally apply to the timber industry. Those persons who are directly interested in the local industry state quite definitely that as it has to bear its proportion of the burdens of protection, it should receive its benefits. The condition of the industry has been exhaustively examined by the Tariff Board on three occasions, and I found it so difficult t’o come to a decision as to these timber duties that 1 arranged for a special conference between the Tariff Board and representa- tives of the industry in Australia. No other subject has given the Government so much concern. No one can deny that, following the imposition of these duties, there has been considerable activity in our hardwood forests. Many hardwood saw-millers have span t “large sums of money in erecting drying kilns in order to market well matured and properly seasoned timber. Unfortunately, our Australian hardwoods got a bad name during the war period for no other reason than that, owing to the sudden demand, sawmillers marketed unseasoned and unsuitable timber. But they have had their lesson, and are now marketing timber of uniformly good quality. It has been estimated that the additional amount which would be paid out in wages, as the result of the substitution of hardwood for baltic timber, would be £600,000, and that consumers would be getting a better article for their money. The Tariff Board also reported that there were 1,455 bush mills engaged throughout the Commonwealth in sawing native timbers, and that the aggregate number of men employed on felling, hauling, and milling was 6,200. The annual wage bill was estimated by the board to be £3,645,000. Later figures supplied by the Australian Saw-millers Central Council show that the increased duties have kept at least 9,000 men employed in the timber industry. On this basis, an increase of 3,000 employees may be attributed to the incidence of the tariff. As to the effects of the new duties, it is too early yet to claim any positive result’s, because the new rates synchronize with the prevailing unprecedented depression. No other industry has been so badly affected as the building trade upon which the timber industry depends for its market. Because of the slowing down in building operations throughout Australia, saw-millers found themselves loaded up with imported timbers. Many have not yet been able to dispose of their surplus stocks. Consequently, our hardwood saw-millers have not yet really experienced the full benefit of the duties that have been imposed by this Government. I am informed that in Victoria alone local hardwood sawmillers have accumulated stocks totalling approximately 53,000,000 superficial feet. Most of this timber is already well seasoned, and the rest of it is being properly and scientifically seasoned. I ask the committee not to do anything that will increase the unemployment that is already too prevalent throughout Australia by reducing these duties, and so lessening the protection which the timber industry at present enjoys. The statistical information that I have obtained shows that 9,000 people are dependent upon this industry for their sustenance. It would be a short-sighted policy for us to do anything which would throw these people out of work. There could not bo an immediate revival in. the building trade even if we admitted timber duty free, for we already have a surplus of office accommodation, public buildings, war service homes, and private dwelling houses throughout the Commonwealth. In the years just past the Governments of all the States have spent money very freely to enable workers to build homes for themselves. This was possible on account of heavy borrowing and boom times. These are not boom times, and we cannot borrow money overseas for building purposes. For these reasons, and also because the entire removal of the duties would not stimulate the building industry, I ask honorable members to agree to the Government’s proposals. I am sure that if they do so, the timber industry will feel the benefit of this protection when the depression has passed and normal times have returned.

Mr LYONS:
Wilmot

– It seems to me that if there is one industry which we are justified in maintaining it is our timber industry. While I am definitely of the opinion that many items in this schedule should be reconsidered, I am also of the opinion that we must protect our timber industry. The suggestion has been made by the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Gullett) that an independent inquiry, apart altogether from the Tariff Board, should be made into this industry. I would be quite agreeable to the adoption of that proposal provided that a fair .and impartial tribunal were set up. I am sure that those engaged in the timber industry would be able to justify the degree of protection which has been given them. In every inquiry made hitherto it has been shown clearly that the industry merits protection. While I intend to support the proposals of the Government in this connexion, I would not oppose a proposition for a complete and independent inquiry into the .whole circumstances of the industry.

The debate has been concentrated today upon the question whether Australian hardwoods can be satisfactorily utilized for purposes for which imported softwoods have hitherto been used. It has been shown clearly that our hardwoods are quite satisfactory for mining purposes. They more than hold their own against imported softwoods. I am able to speak with some experience of this industry in my own State. I know that not many years ago governments of every political colour believed that it was necessary for them to specify that their construction departments should use a big proportion of imported softwoods for the erection of public buildings, schools, and dwelling houses. But in more recent years it has been proved in Tasmania beyond any doubt, that our hardwoods are quite satisfactory for these purposes. The practice to-day is to use a great deal more hardwood than formerly. Many buildings of great beauty and permanence have been erected in Tasmania almost entirely of hardwoods.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Latham) referred to the use of inferior hardwood flooring. It is true that some inferior timber has been used; but to-day it is quite easy to obtain firstclass hardwood flooring.

The Tasmanian timber industry has been almost altogether re-organized in the last few years. Previously, every small timber-miller did his work in his own way, and paid little regard to the ° general welfare of the industry. One effect of this was that a great quantity of inferior timber was sold every year. It was for this reason that the sawmillers of Tasmania prevailed upon the Government with which I was associated in that State, to take steps to re-organize the industry, with a view to ensuring that only timber of good quality and type should be put on the market. Unfortunately, just when this re-organization was almost complete, the depression overtook us. But we have had enough experience to show that it is now possible to ensure that first-class hardwood timber only will be placed on the market.

Speaking from the stand-point of employment - and again I rely principally on my Tasmanian experience - the timber industry is very important. If the timber mills of Tasmania could resume fulltime operations, the unemployment problem of that Statewould be practically Solved.

Mr Prowse:

– But the timber is too dear for the people tobuy.

Mr LYONS:

– Timber has fallen substantially in price. It has been suggested by the honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) that the timber-millers would take advantage of the higher duties to increase their prices; but the fact remains that price levels to-day are very low.

Mr Curtin:

– The fall has only been in consonance with the general fall in price levels.

Mr LYONS:

– I know that there has been a fall in prices generally, but I do not think there is any ground whatever for the fear that there will be a definite increase in the price of timber.

I have already made reference to the suitability of Australian hardwoods for mining purposes. I should like to emphasize the fact that this timber is also quite as suitable for many other purposes as imported softwoods. I have no doubt that honorable members have had supplied to them certain information which has come to hand from the Hardwood Millers Association of Victoria. From this material I quote the following paragraph : -

It has been argued that oregon had to be imported for certain purposes, and I propose to take one which the Tariff Board itself deals with on page 25 - (a) “Oregon for special purposes.” In this the board draws the conclusion that oregon is essential for (a) forming of concrete work, and (b ) heavy beams, &c.

In reference to (a), let me quote the report of the Resident Engineer at Eildon reservoir of the Victorian State Rivers and Water Supply Commission in regard to forming for concrete : - ” Re Kiln-dried Hardwood - Rubicon Forest. -In the form work used during the construction of the ‘ blister tunnel ‘ on the face of the spillway, use was made of the hardwood of the Rubicon Forest, supplied by Clarke and Pearce Proprietary Limited, of Alexandra. Kiln-dried T. andG. lagging, 3¼, 4¼ and 5¼ by7/8 inches was used on both flat and curved surfaces, and proved so successful that it was thought that, were this product more widely known, greater use of it might be made. In dismantling of form-work, this lagging withstood considerable rough usage, the operation in consequence being carried out with greater expedition and less waste than would be possible with either oregon or baltic. In this case there was practically no waste, and the timber was either stacked for further use, or immediately re-assembled. This capacity for successful re-use greatly offsets the price, and tends to an economy in timber not possible with the imported softwoods used under similar conditions.”

I think that statement definitely disposes of the argument that our hardwoods are not suitable for use in the forming of concrete work and for heavy beams. The concluding sentence of my quotation is also of great importance. If our hardwoods can be used a second time, they have an advantage over softwoods, which offsets any difference in price.

The re-organization of our timber industry throughout Australia has led to a definite improvement in the standard of the timbers marketed. Experiments designed to improve still further the quality ofour timbers are being continually carried out in Tasmania and elsewhere, so we may expect a progressive advance in this respect.

The honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) made some reference to the relations between the employers and the employees in the timber industry. I have had some experience in this direction. I personally know employers in the Tasmanian timber industry who have had in their employ the members of the same family for very many years. Many of these employers retained the’ services of such employees for a considerable period after the demand for timber fell off. Some of them, in fact, retained men in their employment until their resources were entirely exhausted. I have in mind the case of one milling firm - one of the biggest in Tasmania - which has had the members of certain families associated with it for two generations. The senior member of this firm said to me not very long ago, with tears in his eyes, that he had come to the end of his resources, and would have to discontinue the employment of men who had been associated with him throughout his life, and with his father before him.’ He was almost heartbroken at having to turn these old employees adrift. Such employers do not deserve condemnation.

I look forward to the day when we shall not only be supplying from local sources the bulk of the timber required in Australia, but shall also be exporting special classes of timber. In the meantime, however, it is essential that we should maintain this industry in order to develop the local market.

Mr.RIORDAN (Kennedy) [5.39].- The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Lyons) has referred to the possibility of developing an export trade in timber. There was a time when we did a considerable trade in this direction, but unfortunately the “ go-getters “ came into the industry and sold poor quality timber to customers overseas. The adoption of this policy was disastrous to the trade. The honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) said that a weatherboard house constructed solely of Australian timber cost £83 more than one in which

Oregon was used. A similar statement was made by a builder named Howie in giving evidence before the Tariff Board in Sydney, and although the board asked Mr. Howie to supply detailed costs, the information has yet not been supplied. Apparently, it was a reckless statement which cannot be substantiated. Instead of proving its accuracy, Mr. Howie has handed over his brief to the honorable member for Warringah, in an endeavour to spread further lies against locallygrown timber.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– I had the details with me this afternoon.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Why were they not supplied to the Tariff Board as requested ?

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– They were supplied to the board.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Although the board has made several requests to Mr. Howie, the details have not been supplied.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Who told the honorable member that? One of the hardwood lobbyists?

Mr RIORDAN:

– I challenge the honorable member for Warringah to prove that my statement is incorrect.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The board has been, supplied with the information required.

Mr RIORDAN:

– I challenge the honorable member to prove that Mr.

Howie has supplied the figures. Before these duties were imposed, 58 per cent. of imported timber and 42 per cent. of local timber was being used in building construction, but to-day the figures are 75 per cent. and 25 per cent. respectively.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The honorable member obtained his information from some person within the building with whom I saw him conversing.

Mr RIORDAN:

– I am at liberty to converse with any one I wish. Unfortunately for the honorable member, some one who could disprove his statement was present.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– My statement was fair.

Mr RIORDAN:

– So is mine, and it is true and is taken from the Tariff Board’s manuscript.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The honorable member cannot disprove what I have said.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).I ask the honorable member for Warringah to cease interjecting, otherwise I shall have to take action.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Prior to the imposition of these duties an effort was being made by timber producers in Northern Queensland to form a company and to install the dry-kiln system which at that time had been practically untried in that State. The cost of the machinery required by such a company in order to place it on a proper commercial basis would be £100,000. The necessary kiln and equipment would cost about £30,000. Hardwood seasoned under the air-drying system warps, and the company desired sufficient protection before incurring heavy expenditure on plant.For some time, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research has been conducting kiln tests on eight different classes of timber; but it is difficult to produce a dry kiln capable of satisfactorily treating different varieties of timber. Although these tests have been in progress for some time, a report of the results has not been furnished. As the duties have been in operation for only eighteen months, the industry has not had sufficient time to develop. The inactivity in building operations is due to economic conditions, and not to the duties imposed on imported timber. The cost of building has now reached the 1914 level, and the price of timber has fallen 30 per cent, since the imposition of these duties. I understand that a house which could have been built two years ago for £600 can now be constructed for £400. The governmental departments in Queensland state that there has been a fall of over 35 per cent, in building costs, owing to the decrease in the price of iron and timber and other building materials. One of the difficulties of the Queensland timber industry is caused by the high royalties charged. When a member of a Queensland Parliament, I was of the opinion that the high royalties charged placed the industry on an unfavorable footing. If a reduction in royalties is impracticable, protection can be afforded only by imposing customs duties. There is uo need to import timber for mining or other purposes, and if an embargo were placed upon importations to-morrow, the mining companies now using imported timbers would soon find a suitable substitute in Australia. Queensland timber is used in the Chillagoe, Etheridge, Mount Isa, Cloncurry, and Palmer mines, and it has the advantage of being able to resist the ravages of white ant’s to a greater extent than imported timbers. It was also found that four or five out of every twelve of the sleepers made from imported timber used on the Etheridge railway had been seriously attacked by whiteants after they had been in use for only twelve months, whereas . local sleepers were not affected for some considerable time. Suitable scaffolding timber can also be obtained in Australia, and if our timber resources are to be developed, we should encourage the use of local timber for mining and building purposes. Some honorable members opposite have said that in opposing these duties they are considering the interests of the workers. As a representative of the working class, I consider that the 9,000 men engaged in the timber industry in Australia should be protected. A good deal of timber imported into this country is handled by Chinese. [Quorum formed.’] Recently, I received a letter from a man engaged in the timber industry in Vancouver who had apparently read my speech on the

Canadian trade agreement. In referring to the industrial conditions in Canada, he said that the mention of unionism in the Canadian lumber camps was sufficient to result in a man being chased out of the industry. He further said that in that country Chinese and Hindus are extensively employed in the timber and. other industries. A good deal of opposition has been raised to the importation of Russian timber, Owl ng to the conditions under which it is alleged to be produced; but if investigations were conducted into the industrial conditions in other countries it would probably be found that they were even worse than those which are said to exist in Russia.

Mr Bayley:

– Nothing of the sort.

Mr RIORDAN:

– The honorable member for Oxley (Mr. Bayley) does not know anything about it.

Mr Bayley:

– I have seen the men at work.

Mr RIORDAN:

– The honorable member and those with whom he is associated interfered with the operations of. Russian interests which were buying £4,000,000 worth of our wool annually, but they are prepared to give extensive preference to American products, although the Americans buy nothing from us. I do not think that the operation of these duties will increase the cost of a timber cottage by even £1. If the Australian sawmillers were forced out of business owing to inadequate protection, the price of imported timbers would immediately increase, and buildings would consequently become more expensive. I trust that the majority of the committee will support these duties, and thus give the industry the assistance which it deserves.

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

.- The claim put forward by the honorable members for Kennedy (Mr. Riordan) and Herbert (Mr. Martens), that these duties are necessary to enable the very fine softwoods of Queensland to be sold at a profit, because of the heavy royalties demanded by the Queensland Government, should bring home to the committee how extremely exorbitant these duties are. It is an astounding proposition that the users of timber in all parts of Australia should be asked £b pay an additional customs impost in order that the revenue of one

State may be bolstered, and so that certain individuals may be in a position to buy votes with other people’s money. The people who are expected to provide it are those who ought to be engaged in the building trade, but, unfortunately, to-day are out of work, in every city and every little country town. The futility of imposing exorbitant duties on timber was proved by the reference of the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Frost) to his recent visits to timber camps in Tasmania and other parts of Australia. The honorable member found timber workers practically starving through unemployment. These duties, which have been made exorbitant iu order to help the Queensland Government revenue, have thus failed to provide work for timber workers whom we would all be pleased to see at work again. They are, as the honorable member for Franklin says, a specially fine class of men. I shall quote the opinion of an outandout supporter of the Government, Mr. F. F. Ward, secretary of the South Australian Labour Party.

Mr Gabb:

– He is a stout enough protectionist.

Mr HAWKER:

– He is, and an outandout supporter of the present Government, but there are some acts of bushranging which even he cannot condone. He says -

The duty adds greatly to the cost of a house, and houses aru mostly required by the workers. Oregon costs only 4s. per 100 super, feet at the port of shipment. Freight, wharfage, and other charges amount to 10s., which is equal to a protective duty of 250 per cunt. If the duty is 8s., that means an additional protective duty of 200 per cent., or 450 per cent, on cost. The present duty of 14s., added to freight and other charges, means an increase on cost of 24s., which is equal to a protective duty of 000 per cent.

That certainly is an unbiased comment upon these exorbitant duties. I congratulate the Minister upon the moderation of his speech. He is evidently one of those wise men who, when about to propose something particularly outrageous, cloak their purpose by using the most moderate language possible. He suggests than we cannot look for any increase in employment in the building trade, because of the large number of empty houses and offices to be found in every city and town, completely ignor ing what will be the first section of the building trade to revive. Any one who moves about can see houses and buildings of all descriptions iu cities and towns, and in farming districts, in need of repair, but the work of renovation is held up because of the excessive cost of iron and timber. Even a slight reduction in the cost of these materials would start a revival in the building trade so far as renovations are concerned. The idea that particular kinds of Australian wood can become substitutes for the world’s most suitable timbers for every use, is contradicted by the figures quoted by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Latham), showing that, since the imposition of these exorbitant rates of duty, sales of oregon have been maintained in approximately the same proportion as formerly. The Tariff Board’s report, which is now a year old, and does not deal with sales actually taking place to-day, commented to the ‘same effect as follows : -

It will be noticed that the duties hitherto imposed have not had the effect of restricting the importation of oregon. On the contrary, despite the increases in duty, the proportion of oregon to the total timber used Kas become greater. The failure of the duties to achieve the object for which they were imposed is very clearly demonstrated by the fact, as disclosed by the graph, that during the three years immediately preceding the war, when the average rate of duty on undressed timber (having regard to the various sizes) from thu United States of America was 2s. Od. per 100 super, feet, the timber in question represented 23 pur cent, of the total Australian consumption. In the years 1926-2” to 1928-29, when the average duty was Ds. Od. per 100 super, feet, undressed timber from the United States of America was 32 per cent, of the Australian consumption. This would appear to force the conclusion that in many parts of Australia oregon is essential for building purposes.

That shows that when the duty was onequarter of what it was during the three years before the present Minister took charge of the tariff, the percentage of imports of oregon from America was smaller, and probably if the figures were available to date, it would be found that even with this extortionate duty the proportion of Oregon which is being used in Australia is as high as, or even higher than, before. Only essential work is hoi ug carried out to-day, and when that class of work is being undertaken it is customary to use the most suitable timber available, which, in most, instances, is oregon. I do not propose to refer to each of the items in this section of the schedule. I support most strongly the amendment of the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill), and if it is not carried in this chamber, I hope that another place will insist upon it.

Mr JONES:
Indi

.- The honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Hawker) quoted figures to show that oregon was still being largely used in Australia, but I have obtained some official figures from the Customs Department which show that, since the imposition of these higher duties, there has been a definite decline in the use of undressed timber from abroad. That is clear evidence that the Government’s action in introducing this tariff schedule was justified. The figures which I shall quote will perhaps startle the honorable member, for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) who seems to think that oregon, because it cracks before it breaks, is the only timber suitable for mining.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– I am con. cerned not about mining timber, but about timber for houses.

Mr JONES:

– The total’ imports of undressed oregon, mostly from the United States of America and Canada, in 1929- 30 were 181,310,680 super, feet; and in 1930-31, 22,716,865 super, feet; a decrease of 158,593,815 super, feet. In view of those figures, how can the honorable member for Wakefield substantiate his statement that the proportion of sales of Oregon in Australia is still being maintained?- The value, of undressed timber imported into Australia in 1929-30 was £1,299,877, and in 1930-31, £122,226; a decline of £1,244,110.

Mr Paterson:

– The point made by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition was that the proportion as between local and imported timber is still the same. That is different altogether from the point which the honorable member is making.

Mr JONES:

– Those figures speak for themselves. The honorable member for Warringah stated that oregon was the only suitable timber for mining. Let roe tell him that I have had years of experience in mining, and I know that there is in use in the gold mines of Victoria Australian timber which cracks and gives warning of danger just as much as oregon does. That. timber was placed in the mines long before I was born and it is as good to-day as it was when it was first put there. I cannot understand the anti-Australian spirit which animates some members of the Opposition. They are ready to import any class of timber regardless of the conditions under which it is produced, whether by Chinese, Hindu, or black labour - provided that it is cheap. The honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) complained by interjection that the price of Australian timber was too dear; yet only a week or so ago I heard him say that he intended to hold his wheat on the farm became the price offering was not high enough. He wants a high price for his wheat, yet he is not prepared to pay a decent price for Australian timber. He takes a one-eyed view. Oregon for mining purposes is imported duty free. Id 1929-30 the quantity of oregon imported for use underground for mining purposes, as prescribed by departmental bylaw, was 10,512,080 super, feet, valued at £40,030; and in 1930-31, 8,781,934 super, feet, valued at £25,204. Because this timber is imported duty free it can be sold at a considerably reduced price. The honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Hawker) quoted from a letter from the secretary of the Labour party in South Australia, to the effect that the landed cost of oregon. was 4s. per 100 super, feet.

Mr Hawker:

– That is the value in the country of origin.

Mr JONES:

– I should like to see an embargo placed on Oregon timber. We have heard that it is far superior to Australian timber, but the opposite is stated in a letter sent by the secretary of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission of Victoria, to a firm of saw-millers in my electorate - Messrs. Clark and Pearce, of Alexandra.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– What is the name of the writer?

Mr JONES:

– Mr. P. J. 0’Mally the secretary of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission of Victoria.

Mr Gabb:

– The Leader of the Opposition quoted from that letter.

Mr JONES:

– I shall read it again to instil the facts in the minds of honorable members that Australian timber is at least equal to, and perhaps superior to, oregon for some purposes. The letter reads -

I am directed by this commission to forward you the enclosed copies of reports by the commission’s resident engineer, and the foreman carpenter,Eildon Reservoir, on the kiln dried hardwood supplied by you for use on the reservoir works.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to8 p.m. [Quorum formed.]

Mr JONES:

– I have here reports by the resident engineer and the foreman carpenter of the Eildon Reservoir, on the kiln-dried hardwoods supplied for the reservoir works, and ask leave to have them incorporated in Hansard.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Keane:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA

– Is it the wish of honorable members that the reports be incorporated in Hansard?

Honorable Members. - No !

Mr JONES:

– The report of the resident engineer is as follows

Re Kiln -dried Hardwood, Rubicon Forest.

In the form-work used during the construction of the “ blister tunnel “ on the f ace of the spillway, use was made of the hardwood of the Rubicon Forest, supplied by Clark and Pearce Proprietary Limited, of Alexandra. Kiln-dried T and G lagging, 3¼ inches, 4¼ inches and 5¼ inches by7/8 inch was used on both flat and curved surfaces, and proved so successful that it was thought that, were this product more widely known, greater use of it might be made.

In dismantling of form-work, this lagging withstood considerable rough usage, the operation in consequence being carried out with greater expedition and less waste than would be possible with either oregon or baltic.

This is not the timber championed by the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill). I impress upon him that this is the opinion of an expert, and I place more reliance upon it than upon that of the honorable member, who probably has not used either type of timber. The report continues-

In this case there was practically no waste, and the timber was either stacked for further use or immediately re-assembled. This capacity for successful re-use greatly affects the price and tends to an economy in timber not possible with the imported softwoods used under similar conditions.

As will be seen from theattachedreports of the foreman carpenter, this consignment has been used, in some cases, four times.

Yet one honorable member told us that he had a letter from a company stating that this timber could be used only once. The report goes on -

The blister tunnel and No. 1 inspection shaft on themain drainage system are the first and last structures completed with this timber, the finish being highly satisfactory.

This information is forwarded in case other engineers of the commission might find it economical to use the product of the Rubicon. Forest. In adding freight, the railways accept it as 700 super, feet to the ton.

The report of the foreman carpenter on the job reads -

Adverting to my previous report, I have to advise as follows: -

The kiln-dried hardwood now being used for the third and fourth times made up practically perfectly, being well oiled and showing no curl after stripping of forms.

We are told by one honorable member that this timber warped. Evidently the minds ofsome honorable members opposite, who are apt to believe everything that they are told, are warped-. This report continues -

Some of the boards used for the fifth time, however, were not able to be used on the original face, but, on being reversed, proved just as good for the face of the forms, In the initial stages the 3¼ inch and 4¼ inch proved more effective for form work as the edges did not curl quite so noticeably as some of the 51 inch. The latter curled slightly, and had to be dressed off with the plane. After the second, third and fourth use, however, no curl could be distinguished.

In stripped form work, the timber” was nut damaged to any extent after being used for the fourth time, and is still fully serviceable for further use in form work. The face left on the concrete after using the kiln-dried hardwood is far superior to that left after usingbaltic or oregon.

What does the honorable member for Warringah think of that, which is the opinion of a practical man. The report concludes-

Re 5¼ inch by7/8 inch seasoned hardwood blister tunnel. In reference to this, Ihaveto submit the following: -

Placing. - Wood was in perfect condition and went together well.

Concreting.- After concreting, the boards did not twist longitudinally and retained their original condition.

Stripping. - After a fortnight’s use, the boards stripped well, all nails extracted readily, and the timber showed no signsof splittingor any similar defect.

12 ft. (i in. radius. - Being over a 12 ft. ti in. radius, it was necessary to bend these boards, and they responded to this treatment.

Cleaning. - Cleaned well, and in good condition for other use.

I have read the views of experts who handle and use this timber. This committee should attach considerable weight to them. I believe that I have sufficiently exploded the fallacy that no other timber can replace oregon for timbering mines. The timber used in those big tunnels must possess similar qualities to those needed by timber used in mines, and the reports on it are perfectly satisfactory. The timber used was kiln-dried seasoned by Clark and Pearce Proprietary Limited, Alexandra. Several other kiln-drying plants are being erected in my electorate. There is one at Powelltown. Recently a timber expert from overseas visited that plant and, after seeing the seasoning plant in operation, and examining some of the homes in the locality in which baltic pine was used, he declared that he wondered why the people of Australia should resort to the imported article when they had such fine timber of their own. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Latham) complained about the defects in local flooring timber. I should like him to inspect the plant at Powelltown. I am sure that, after doing so, he will select the local product when next he builds, or desires to refloor his home.

There is a seasoning plant in course of construction at Yarra Junction, owned by Messrs. Yelland Brothers Proprietary Limited, from whom I have received the following letter: -

Re Tariff on Imported Timbers.

We understand the above, among other items, will be debated in the House, commencing next week, and we, among others of your supporters, have confidence in you, in that you will help to protect our industry against foreign competitors, both as regards oregon and baltic timbers, as well as box shooks for local use.

We, as well as other millers in Victoria, are on the point of putting in seasoning plants for the production of floorings and all other building timbers, also for box shooks. These products will be superior to imported timbers, and at no greater price, provided we get protection from overseas, insuring us the volume of trade, when trade is available. Little or none exists at the present time.

The proposed duties embodied in the schedule may appear high, but if the two following factors are taken into consideration, it will be seen that they are’ not too high : -

I should like this to sink into the mind of the honorable member for Warringah

  1. The natural prejudice so many Australians appear to have against the products of their own country, encouraged, of course, by importers and others handling these lines who, in most cases, partly or wholly finance the buyer, but who should, and would, handle the local timbers if the foreign softwoods did not intrude.
  2. And, perhaps, worse still is the “ trade war “ in which oregon in particular is sold under cost, as a Bort of “ star bargain “ line, or as a “ leg in “ to secure for the seller the supplying of the other requisites, such as joinery, roofing, floorings, &c, which form the major cost of the structure, and on which the profit is made up. This “ war “ was on until the trade collapsed last year.

If these duties are passed, we shall immediately construct kilns for the seasoning of hardwood furniture, floorings, linings and joinery, as well as box shooks for containers for all types of local manufactures, and for fruit. Our seasoned hardwood fruit cases have proved most satisfactory, both for export and for interstate trade.

In supplying the above lines, including hardwood scantlings, we shall not exceed in price the present list prices, subject only to wages awards. It will be noted that many lines of hardwood scantlings are being sold to-day at considerably under the list prices, hut these lines are chiefly stocks which are deteriorating whilst millers are financially embarrassed.

We have six bush mills in the Warburton district, and only one is working, and that part time, so you will readily understand our anxiety to get the tariff settled so that when there is trade in Australia, Australian millers will have a chance, and incidentally help to keep the money in the country.

That is a most desirable objective. The honorable member for Fremantle (Mr. Curtin) declared that the hardwood millers would exploit the people by charging high prices, if there were no overseas competition. He did not produce facts or figures to substantiate his charge. Those available show that the reverse is the ‘case. Since the new duties were imposed the prices for hardwood all over Australia have fallen, on an average, by 30 per cent. They are back to 19li levels. Although many sawmilling companies have not paid a dividend for years, the additional duties enabled thom to reduce their prices sub- stantially.When better days come, and the decline in the building trade has passed, we shall probably enjoy a still further reduction in timber prices, as the millers will have an increased output with practically the same overhead charges. Before the new duties came into operation 4.2 per cent. of the timber used in Victoria was grown locally. Since they were imposed 75 per cent. of the locally-grown article has been used. I am pleased that the Victorian Government gave orders that all timbers used for government building purposes in that State should be Australian grown. It is a pity that similar action is not taken by every other State Government. I believe that when he was in office with this Government, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Lyons) issued such an order in connexion with Commonwealth timber requirements. I admire him for doing so. It is a pity that some of the honorable member’s1 present followers do not entertain a similar Australian outlook. The Minister rightly reminded the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) that a previous government, which he supported, tried to carry out the recommendations of the Tariff Board, but Parliament decided otherwise. I hope that, in this instance also, Parliamentwill insist on adequate protection being given to the Australian timber industry. I think that I have answered the charge that there is no satisfactory substitute for Oregon.

The honorable member for Warringah also said that hardwood could never take the place of baltic pine for flooring, excepting in special circumstances. Did any one ever hear such a ridiculous statement ?

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– How many people have hardwood floors in their homes?

Mr JONES:

-A timber expert who visited Australia some time ago expressed surprise that, in a district where mountain ash grows, so many of the homes had baltic flooring. In my electorate, doors and window frames of Australian hardwood are to be found in considerable numbers. At Powelltown, where the big gest saw-mill in Australia is situated, the local school is built exclusively of Australian timbers. There is no finer model school of its kind in Victoria. I have repeatedly drawn attention to the beautiful timbers in this chamber, all of which are Australian. In the new Civic Hall in Brisbane, costing about £1,200,000, none but Australian timber is used. I desire to conclude by quoting from the Melbourne

Age of the 16th December, 1930 -

page 565

OUR TIMBER RESOURCES

An Expert’s Opinion. “ Great Wealth Untapped

To make an inspection of the main timber mills and stocks of Victoria, Tasmania, West Australia and Queensland timber with a view to extending the export trade with the United Kingdom, Mr. J. Hallis, a director of J. Hallis and Company Limited, timber merchants, of Hull and London, arrived at Melbourne yesterday by the Otranto.

Mr. Hallis said his firm had been actively engaged in pushing the Bales of Australian timbers in the United Kingdom. His firm was contemplating the importing of raw material from Australia and milling it in England to suit local requirements. Higher freight rates of recent years had had little effect on the trade. For furniture Australian timber had been found extremely suitable. Jarrah and kauri were being used for flooring some of London’s most important buildings. For beauty, texture, grain and utility, he considered that there was no other timber in the world comparable to the best Australian product.

Discussing the economic situation, Mr. Hallis said “Australia had fallen over before she was really hit.” We had not even touched the fringe of the financial depression before we were turning our faces towards prosperity. Pessimists should realize that in its timber resources alone, Australia had a great wealth practically untapped.

I hope that the committee will pass these duties inorder to make it possible for this wealth to be tapped.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- Mr. Chairman-

Motion (by Mr. Gullett) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 47

NOES: 6

Majority . . . . 41

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Archdale Pakkhill’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. ( Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 15

NOES: 37

Majority . . . . 22

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Question - That sub-item h be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 37

NOES: 13

Majority . . . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

I ( 1 ) Timber, undressed, n.e.i., in sizes not less than 4 inches in width and not less than 3 inches in thickness for the manufacture of boxes, as prescribed by departmental by-laws, per 100 super. feet - British,1s.; intermediate, 1s.; general,1s.

  1. Timber, undressed, cut to size for -making boxes, per 100 super. feet - British, 12s.; intermediate, 12s.; general, 12s.
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move -

That the sub-item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 30th July, 1931 -

(1) Timber, undressed, n..e.i., in sizes notless than 4 inches in width and not. less than 3 inches in thickness for the manufacture of boxes as prescribed by departmental by-laws, per 100 super, foot - British, free: intermediate, free; (general.1s.

Timber, undressed, cut to size for making boxes, per 100 super, feet - British, 12s.; intermediate, 12s. ; general, 14s.

The object of this amendment is to permit of the incorporation of this sub-item as set out in the tariff resolution of July, 1931. It will be recollected that the tariff resolution of the 29th July last provided for an increase in the duties on this sub-item, and in order to make the legal position secure in regard to any duties which may have been collected under that resolution, it will be necessary to incorporate it with the present proposals. The amendment makes no difference to the rates proposed under the resolution of the 29th July last.

Mr GABB:
Angas

– I regret that the British preferential duty on timber cut to size for box-making has been increased from 5s. to 12s. per 100 super, feet. This duty affects the producers of dried fruits, who require this timber for the manufacture of their boxes. The Minister will probably tell me that they obtain a rebate on the cases in which their goods are exported, yet this duty wil penalize them considerably in regard to their home market. This is one of the many instances in which the timber duties press unduly upon South Australia. I rose in my place recently to speak on this matter, but I was “ gagged.” I now take the opportunity of pointing out once more that South Australia suffers severely because of the tariff.

Mr Prowse:

– So does Western Australia,

Mr GABB:

– The honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) will, no do’ubt, speak on behalf of his own State; but while Western Australia grows many kinds of timber, South Australia has a paucity of forest areas.

Mr MORGAN:
Darling Downs

– The duties on this sub-item are open to precisely the same objection as those with which the committee has just dealt. This high increase in the timber duties will not help Australian industries. Any increase above the rates provided in the 1921-28 schedule could be justified only if the increase were made for revenue purposes. The old schedule was sufficiently protective to safeguard the interests of Australian industry. These duties are almost certain to increase building costs. This point was amply stressed by the Tariff Board in its report, in the course of which it stated -

In considering the proposals put before tha conference and in arriving at the conclusions and recommendations set out in this report, the Tariff Board has kept constantly in mind the serious unemployment which exists in the industries concerned and the essential need for relieving the position so far as is practicable. With this in view the board sets . itself out co ascertain where it could recommend the imposition of duties that would encourage the greater use of Australian timbers, and thus provide additional employment* without unduly increasing the cost of timber to the users, or of preventing supplies of imported timber where such timber is considered essential.

That statement furnishes justification for a reversion to the schedule of 1921-28. It has been urged that the importation of timber for case-making has seriously affected the use of Australian hardwoods, but I submit that that argument cannot be supported. I refuse to accept the view that honorable members who favour the importation of softwoods are necessarily implicated in a conspiracy against the use of Australian timbers. I yield to nobody in my appreciation of Australian timbers and in my support of Australian industries. I contend that there is nothing anti-Australian in my attitude to these duties. The subject of unemployment is constantly obtruding in this debate, and I would answer that by again quoting from the report of the Tariff .Board on the importation of the particular class of softwood with which this sub-item deals. The board reported -

As regards Oregon (Douglas fir) and redwood, however, the board feels most strongly that if the duties set out in the proposals placed before the conference on the larger sizes were adopted, the added Cost to the building trade would far outweigh the benefits that would accrue to the saw-milling industry, and that the ultimate result would be decreased rather than increased employment.

Unemployment, so far as it exists in the timber industry to-day, is due, not to the importation of these particular softwoods, which are needed to make up the deficiency in Australian softwoods, and which must continue to be imported for some years to come, but almost entirely to the prevailing depression. It is perfectly plain to any person who studies the statistics that we are importing annually 500,000,000 super, feet of softwoods. That fact carries its own conviction; those softwoods are needed, otherwise they would not be imported to such an extent. Australian forests are rapidly being depleted of their softwoods, and at the present time their capacity i3 well below Australia’s requirements. It is necessary to establish further forestry schemes to make good the shortage. That industry of afforestation and reafforestation must be established before it can be protected. Hence, the existing restrictions upon the importation of those woods which Australia needs to carry on its building enterprises are unjust. Forestry is a great investment; no factories have to be established, no expenditure incurred on plant. Australia is at present engaged in that particular work, which is of the greatest possible importance to the future of this country. Meanwhile, some measure of protection is necessary, and that is provided by the 1921-28 tariff. No reason has been advanced - none can be - for increasing the duties in the manner proposed. The money that is being spent to-day on forestry development is an investment ,in a definitely reproductive work, which has no need of support. The committee can assist it to the extent that is necessary, without recourse to these particularly high duties. Meanwhile, it is essential that the softwood which is necessary for building and constructional purposes shall be imported, because . that will obviate the depletion of our existing supplies, and allow them to be utilized in such a man ner that they will be available until the forests that arc now growing up become commercial propositions. Such a position cannot be arrived at in anything under 25 or 30 years.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Keane:

– I nsk the honorable member to connect his remarks with the item.

Mr MORGAN:

– I propose to do so. If we protect our own supplies until the forests that are now being developed are available for commercial use, the end that the best experts in forestry have in view will be achieved, and it will be unnecessary to impose these increased duties.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- An extraordinarily large increase is proposed in connexion with the duties on timbers that are required for the making of boxes for use in the export trade. Honorable members are aware of the extreme dim- ‘culties that are being faced by the dried fruits and other industries which we wish to develop.

Mr Forde:

– No one can complain of what is proposed. Timber for cutting into box shooks is to be admitted free.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I protest against the manner in which the amendment has been submitted. The Minister gave an explanation of it that could not be heard by many honorable members because of the buzz of conversation in the chamber, and few honorable members understand what it means. That is not the way in which the committee should be treated. The amendment will have a retrospective effect, because it will operate from July last. The Minister gave no reason for that; we are expected to take it on trust.

Mr Forde:

– It only legalises what has been done.

Mr Gabb:

– He has tried to cover up the duties proposed under sub-item i 2 by reducing those under i 1.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL There has been ample1 time to circulate the amendment. In the case of bills, the amendments that are to be proposed, not only by the Minister, but also by private members, are printed and circulated some time before members are asked to consider them. This tariff schedule has been before the committee for several months, yet we have not been made acquainted with the amendments that have been contemplated. I oppose the amendment that has been moved to this sub-item, because I do not understand what is proposed.

Mr Frost:

– I am unacquainted with the purport, of the amendment, ls it proposed that sub-item r 2 shall remain as it is printed?

Mr Forde:

– The tariff on timber, undressed, n.e.i., in sizes not less than 4 inches in width and not less than 3 inches in- thickness, for the manufacture of boxes, is free British, free intermediate, and ls. general. The object is to observe the provisions of the Canadian trade agreement.

Mr LATHAM:
Kooyong

.- This is an example of the method by which the Government is seeking to put the tariff through the committee. An amendment has been proposed by the Minister; but, apparently, honorable members on both sides have no idea of what it is. It could readily have been circulated some time ago, but that was not done. This procedure abundantly justifies the decision of the Opposition not to take any further part in the discussion of the tariff.

Mr Forde:

– This was in the tariff schedule that was tabled on the 29th July last. It has been lying on the table ever since, and it is a waste of time talking about it.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– I have no wish to cross swords with honorable members on this side in their opposition to the proposal of the Minister. I consider, however, that the proposal of the honorable gentleman is a very liberal one - more liberal, indeed, than I should feel inclined to bring forward. His reason - that it is in accordance with the Canadian trade agreement - cannot lightly be brushed aside. The proposal is that, under the British and intermediate tariffs, undressed timber in certain sizes shall be admitted free, while under the general tariff the rate is to be only1s. per 100 super, feet, which amounts to 2d. per 100 lineal feet of box timber for fruit cases.

Mr Gregory:

– Nobody objects to that. Read the next portion of the sub-item.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– It reads, “ Timber, undressed, cut to size for making boxes, per 100 super. feet - British, 12s. ; intermediate, 12s. ; general, 14s.” That works out at about 2s. per 100 lineal feet, which would not impose a very great hardship on the manufacturers of boxes. The tops of our pine timbers, of which there is now a considerable wastage, could be sold to Australian box-makers very cheaply. It is desired, in Queensland at any rate, that they shall be used more extensively than is the case at the present time. There is no ground for complaint, therefore, in regard to these duties. Under the trade agreement with Canada, dominion timber for boxmaking is admitted free; but if importers wish to use other timber they will be required to pay 12s. per 100 super. feet, or 2s. per 100 lineal feet, and will get a rebate. If they do not care to use the Canadian timber they can utilize Australian pine tops at probably one-half the price. I see nothing wrong with the item, and intend to support it.

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

.-I rise to support the amendment of the Minister to bring the schedule into conformity with the provisions of the Canadian trade agreement relating to timber. The duties in paragraph a are now lower than those in the 1921-28 tariff. I offer no objection to the increase in the general tariff on that class of timber. I am, however, disappointed that the rates upon shooks for box-making have been increased. This additional impost will be felt severely by our fruit exporters.

Mr Forde:

– Box-makers can import that class of timber free from Canada.

Mr HAWKER:

– I am aware that if cases made from imported timber are reexported a drawback on the duty paid will be allowed, but for all fruit sold in Australia the case-makers will be obliged to use 4-in. by 3-in. planks, or else the less accessible Australian timber. I am informed that there is considerable wastage in cutting up 4-in. by 3-in. planks; that in some cases, the freight of the amount of wood lost in sawdust is equal to all the wages paid in the box-making industry, and that these additional cost* will reduce the capacity of the fruit industry to pay wages in conformity with Australian standards. All these artificial restrictions will make it more difficult for the fruit industry to find its natural level and regain its former employing capacity. I therefore propose to vote with the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb) against the proposed duties in paragraph 2, but will support the amendment of the Minister to paragraph 1.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

– I appeal to the Minister to agree to an amendment of the proposed duties on timber undressed, cut to size for making boxes. A little while ago I received a letter from the Dried Fruits Association in Western Australia advising me of the difficulties of its members with regard to timber for box-making, and stating that if they were permitted to import timber from Norway they would beable to save 5d. on each box. They cannot afford to pay these heavy duties. There wereno complaints from box-makers when the duty was 5s. per 100 super. feet, and I see no reason why it should now be increased to 12s. I hope that the Minister will agree to revert to the former duty.

Mr.G ABB (Angas) [9.8].- Are we to understand that the duties in paragraphs 1 and 2 are to be taken together, or will honorable members have an opportunity to vote upon them separately?

Mr Forde:

– I have no objection to the sub-item being divided.

Mr GABB:

– That being so, I shall accept the duties in paragraph 1 with pleasure, because they represent a substantial reduction upon the duties imposed in June of last year, but I am strongly opposed to the duties in paragraph 2, on undressed timber cut to size for making boxes. The increase in this sub-item is nearly 140 per cent. I shall vote against it.

Amendment agreed to.

  1. Timber for making boxes, being cut to size, and dressed or partly dressed, per 100 super. feet, British, 14s.; intermediate, 14s.; general, 14s.
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move-

That the sub-item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 30th July, 1931 -

Timber for making boxes, being cut to size and dressed, or partly dressed, per 100 super. feet, British, 14s.; intermediate, 14s.; general,16s.”

As honorable members are aware it is not the practice to circulate tariff amendments before they are brought down. But this is not a new amendment. It was tabled on the 29th July last.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- The Minister’s amendment increases the general tariff from 6s. in the 1921-28 schedule to 16s. per 100 super. feet - an increase of nearly 200 per cent. I hope that at least one other honorable member will support me in the call for a division.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I intend to support the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb) in the interests of our primary producers who surely are entitled to some consideration. These increased duties are not justifiable.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- If a man put his hand into my pocket and stole my money I could have him arrested and, upon conviction, he would be lodged in gaol. The. duties in this sub-item have been increased from 6s. in the 1921-28 tariff to 14s. in the British and intermediate tariffs, and 16s. in the general tariff, and will take too much out of the pockets of one section of the community. I emphatically protest against this form of legalized robbery. My only regret is that parliamentary usage will not permit me to use appropriate language to express my condemnation of it. I have a contempt for honorable members who are associated with the fruit industry, and yet support these duties.

Mr FROST:
Franklin

.- The honorable member for Swan (M., Gregory) referred to the proposed duties as likely to impose a great hardship on exporters. He knows very well that,in respect of all timber used for the export trade a rebate of duty is allowed. From one small wharf in my electorate more fruit is exported than from the rest of Australia, and only hardwood cases are used. Honorable members who are opposing this duty are making a plea for the importers, who realize that hardwood produces a better case for the export of fruit than does pine. The excellent fruit that is exported from Western Australia is encased in hardwood.

Mr Gregory:

– I am thinking of the burden that is being placed on the exporters of dried fruits.

Mr FROST:

– Those exporters are protected by the drawback which, in my opinion, is not necessary, and is prejudicial to the timber industry. Hundreds of men are unemployed in the district I represent through the use of imported pine cases. Several local firms have combined to erect a large kiln at a cost of approximately £50,000, to dry timber for export cases, and the law requires that all cases used for sending fruit overseas shall be of seasoned hardwood, properly dressed. The hardwood cases are just as attractive as are those of pine. I am surprised at the attitude of the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb), because already the pine forests in South Australia are being cut, and they will be able to supply the local requirements of boxes. That industry should be assisted by an embargo on imported timber.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– Some honorable members are wrongly regarding these duties as an impost on the fruit exporter. Uncut timber can be imported from Canada, and if it is used for the making of boxes for export the duty on it is rebated. The item relates to timber cut to sizes and dressed or partly dressed, and the object of the duty is to protect Australian labour. I am surprised that the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb) should look scornfully upon Queensland members who are supporting this item. Imported timber which is cut to sizes and dressed should pay a substantial duty, because it deprives Australian workers of employment. The amendment will protect our people, and secure to them work that should be done in Australia. For that reason I shall support the item. Although the honorable member for Angas refers to some of us as die-hard protectionists, he is equally bigoted when the wine industry in his own district is concerned. It is the duty of honorable members to take a broad view, and safeguard the interests of Australian labour.

Mr RIORDAN:
Kennedy

– I congratulate the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) on his national outlook. It is time that our tariff protected not only the saw-milling companies, but also the Australian workers. I have no sympathy for those who import timber already cut to sizes and dressed. The honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb) sneered at the Queensland peanut and pineapple pools; but, having regard to the £1,000,000 grant to South Australia, the wine bounty, and the concessions made to other States, I am convinced that Queensland gets a comparatively small share of the federal largesse. I support the amendment, because it will provide work for our people without inflicting any hardship on those engaged in the fruit export industry.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I, too, desire to see the Australian workers pro tected, and they include not only the few engaged in sawing timber into lengths for boxes, but the hundreds of primary producers who require cases for marketing their product in Australia. They should not be penalized. If the duty is increased from 6s. to l6s., the price of locally manufactured cases will advance nearly to that at which the imported article could be sold. Sneering references have been made to the wine bounty and the gram of £1,000,000 to the State of South Australia. Much more than £1,000,000 if required by that State to compensate it for the burdens imposed upon its people by the Queensland sugar, pineapple, peanut, banana, and butter industries, and the secondary industries of the south-eastern States.

Amendment agreed to.

Question - That the sub-item, as amended, be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 40

NOES: 11

Majority . . 29

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– Sub-item l deals with “ timber, dressed or . moulded, n.e.i. ; timber, tongued or grooved or tongued and grooved; weatherboards”. This class of timber is used in practically all the homes of the supporters of the Labour party, yet a Labour Government proposes to place a duty of 24s. per 100 super, feet upon it. As has been pointed out’ in the debate on another item which was summarily ended, this duty will increase the cost of the workers’ homes. It is a scandal and a disgrace that a Labour Government should be proposing these extraordinarily heavy duties, which will place heavy disabilities upon the workers of this country. The timber affected by this item is cheap in price, and there is no real substitute for it in Australia. Honorable members may talk about mountain ash, Tasmanian blackwood, blackbutt, and other timbers of which there are limited quantities in Australia, obtainable only at great cost, but they cannot disguise the fact that this particular timber is necessary for the construction of homes. Hitherto, our supplies of this class of timber have come chiefly from Norway and Sweden with which countries we have a favorable trade balance. They buy much more from us than we buy from them. Yet we are deliberately proposing to place the extraordinarily heavy impost of 24s. per 100 super, feet duty on this timber.

It is impossible for Australia to use all the wool, wheat, and other primary produce which her people have to market. There is a hig surplus production which must .be sold in other countries. Our population is only about 6,500,000. If it were in the region of 60,000,000 the attitude which the Government is adopting might be reasonable, for we should have a sufficient population to huy the whole of our primary produce; but a population of 6,500,000, which is being diminished daily because of the fiscal policy of the country, does not provide anything like an adequate market at home for either our primary or our secondary production. If this proposal is agreed to we shall estrange two friendly nations. We shall indicate to them that we do not care whether they trade with us or not

We shall also do a serious injustice to the working people of this country if we approve of this duty. I do not expect my remarks on this subject to make any great impression upon honorable members opposite, for I have no doubt that they will vote en Hoc in support of the Government’s proposal. But whether I have any other support or not, I intend to oppose as strongly as possible, even to the point of calling for a division, the increas-ing of the duties on baltic timber.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I also intend to oppose this tremendous increase in duty on dressed or moulded timber and tongued or grooved or tongued and grooved timber and weatherboards. The duty under the general tariff on this class of timber is being increased to 24s. per 100 super, feet. Very little, if any, of this timber will come from Great Britain, so we must regard the duty under the general tariff as the one that will be effective. This timber is covered by two items in the old schedule, and the increases are from 8s. 6d. to 24s., and from 15s. to 24s. I am not quite sure whether the increase on the weatherboards is from 8s. 6d. or 15s. to 24s., but I presume that it is from 15s. to 24s. Whatever other honorable members who represent South Australian constituencies may feel, I am certain that South Australia will feel the full weight of this increase. The people who live in the metropolitan area of South Australia will not be affected very greatly, for galvanized iron and weatherboard houses may not be built in or near Adelaide; but the poorer people who live in the country districts of that State will feel the effect of these duties. I agree with the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) thai it is an amazing thing that the Labour party should be imposing these added burdens upon the people. The dwellers in weatherboard houses in the suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney are represented in this Parliament by Labour members. There is no doubt that the residents in the metropolitan areas of several States will feel the effect of this very heavy impost. Honorable members are sick and tired of this tariff debate, which has lasted for five months. They seem to be willing to take anything lying down, because they hope that the members of another place will resist the imposition of these duties. But I feel that I must enter my emphatic protest against this proposal. I hope that the members of another place “will stand up to their duty better than we have stood up to ours. It must be remembered, however, that they can only suggest alterations to the tariff. I admit that the spectacle of only five, six, seven, or eight members sitting on the Government benches-

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Mackay:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

– The honorable member must confine his remarks to the item before the Chair.

Mr GABB:

– I am sorry that I am not permitted to tell the people outside what is going on in this chamber; but whether the item before the Chair is weatherboards or tongued and grooved timber, or anything else, we see honorable members opposite entering the chamber like dumbdriven cattle to vote in a solid phalanx in favour of any proposal that the Government brings forward. Thank God an election is coming in the comparatively near future. I feel sure that the people, when they get the opportunity, will take such steps as will cause some drastic alterations to be made in this schedule, not by the members of this Government or Parliament, but by the members of the Government and Parliament which will succeed it.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- The rates of duty proposed on this timber are, generally, in accordance with the recommendation of the Tariff Board. When the previous item was under discussion it was complained that the Government had not followed the recommendations of the board ; yet now, when we are actually proposing a duty of1s. per 100 super. feet less under the British and intermediate tariffs than the Tariff Board recommended, we are also criticized. This departure from the board’s recommendation is proposed in order to provide a greater margin between the British and intermediate and general rates, in order to give a preference to Canadian timbers in conformity with the trade agreement which was recently’ negotiated with that dominion. The Tariff Board, which carried out an exhaustive investigation into this subject, estimated that the amount of money that would be spent on timbers used in substitution for Baltic timbers, would be between £600,000 and £700,000 per annum. Is not the expenditure of that large sum of money likely to create additional employment in Australia? I ask honorable members to support the proposal because it is generally in conformity with the recommendation of the Tariff Board.

Question - That sub-item l be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 33

NOES: 9

Majority . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 292 (Laths, palings, pickets, &c).

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- Under this item it is proposed to impose on laths for blinds duties ranging from 50 per cent. to 65 per cent. I should like to ask honorable members who, throughout the day, have been boasting of the magnificent timbers produced in Australia, why it is necessary to impose a duty of 65 per cent. under the general tariff’ to protect those engaged in the simple process of making laths for blinds. Provision is also made under this item for a duty of 12s. per . 1,000 to protect those engaged in the manufacture of laths used for plastering, and which are sold in a rough state. On a rough line such as palings, which at present have natural protection in the form of ocean freights, exchange and primage1 duty, a duty of lGs. per 1,000 under the general tariff is proposed. I cannot understand why there should be any necessity to impose a duty in any form on palings which require practically no treatment and are used principally for fencing. Why should it be necessary to impose any of these duties in a country possessing such extensive timber resources?

Mr Fenton:

– The rates are ls. lower than those imposed, under the 1928-29 tariff.

Mr GABB:

– That may be so, but they should be still lower. On undressed pickets, made from jarrah or stringy bark, a duty of 8s. per 100, or approximately Id. each, is considered necessary to protect those engaged in the making of pickets against importations which have to hear the cost of thousands of miles of ocean freight, primage duty and an exchange rate in the region of 30 per cent. I remind the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton), who has directed attention to the fact that the rates have been reduced ls. per 100 as compared with the 1921-28 tariff, that when those rates were imposed, a 10 per cent, primage duty was not collected and the exchange rate was not as it is to-day. It is impossible to make any impression upon those rabid protectionists who are in favour of increasing duties in spite of the fact that the exchange rate is against importers, and a 10 per cent, primage duty is now being collected. They still persist in piling up these duties and in frustrating the efforts of those endeavouring to protect the users of these commodities. Is it the intention of the Minister to separate these sub-items when a vote is taken?

Mr Forde:

– No.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- There is no occasion for frenzy on the part of the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb). If the honorable member carefully studied the position he would realize that these duties are necessary to protect those engaged in the saw-milling industry. I opposed the last item because I felt that baltic flooring does not enter into competition with flooring boards locally produced. The Warburton timber mills in Victoria, as well as those at Alexandra are, I know, doing excellent work; but for those who cannot afford to pay for a more expensive flooring, baltic timber is suitable.

The laths and pickets included in this item are made from scrap material of the saw-mills which would otherwise be burnt.

Mr Gabb:

– Why impose a duty of 65 per cent.

Mr WHITE:

– If pickets, laths and other products are dumped into this country the Australian saw-millers have no outlet for these articles, and consequently, their overhead expenses are increased through lessened turnover. If a market for scrap material is available additional employment is provided. In the circumstances, the duties proposed do not seem excessive, and I intend to support them.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- For the year * 1929-30, the importations under this item were valued at £21,000. The proposed duties were recommended by the Tariff Board, with the exception of those in sub-items B, C and F, which, under the British and intermediate tariffs, are ls. lower than those recommended by the Tariff Board. There should not be any opposition to the item.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I am profoundly moved by the lucid explanation of the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) who, in endeavouring to justify these duties, convinced me that they are nothing but monstrous impositions. To impose a duty of 65 per cent, under the general tariff on laths and palings is an absurdity. If the Minister wishes to accept the Tariff Board’s view on this matter, it is more than I am prepared to do. It is outrageous to ask the committee to support a duty of 65 per cent, on laths for blinds, which could be shaped up in one’s spare time. Under the 1921-28 tariff mouldings used by picture-framers and furniture manufacturers were dutiable at 6s., but the rate has now been increased to 10s. per 100 lineal feet. The cost of importations is1s. 9d., but the duty alone is 10s., or about 600 per cent. The imposition of these duties has compelled furniture manufacturers and others to use inferior material sold at 5s. per. 100 lineal feet. Considering the natural protection afforded, a duty of 3s. 6d. per 100 lineal feet, which is equal to 200 per cent., should be sufficient to protect the dozen hands or so engaged in the industry. Here we are, a national legislature, spending our time in passing heavy duties to protect an industry which employs about a dozen hands. These impositions are grossly out of all proportion to other items in a tariff itself of a most unscientific character. That we should be asked to accept them passes the comprehension of any one who takes the time to try to understand such things. Furthermore, it is an insult to one’s intelligence.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- The honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) says that if I could only understand it, the reason for this duty is quite plain. What I can understand is that if some of the articles mentioned by him are made from the scrap of sawmills, manufacturing other articles which are protected by excessively heavy duties, they ought not to require a protective duty of 65 per cent. I agree with the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) that, instead of advancing good reasons for the duties, the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) has advanced good grounds for their removal. I have been amazed to see the Minister throw out his chest and declare that the Tariff Board has recommended some of these timber duties, particularly when I remember that during the last few weeks he has been flouting the reports of the board. He blows in regard to the Tariff Board reports hot or cold according to how they happen to suit him. His claim, therefore, that we should accept these duties because the Tariff Board has recommended them does not appeal to me. In South Australia, with the exception of split red gum post and rail fences, thereare very few fences made of local timber. There is very little timber in the State out of which palings and pickets can be made. Yet the people of the State are asked to pay this heavy duty. It is useless for honorable members to argue that the duty payable on the imported article will not be added to the cost of the Tasmanian picket. The Australian manufacturer always brings up his price as close as possible to that of the imported commodity. [Quorum formed.] The Government, not satisfied with imposing heavy duties on all other material required for house construction, proposes to ask the builder to pay a duty of 10s. per 1,000 on laths used for plastering’ walls or ceilings. I protest against these ever-increasing timber duties, which have been imposed at the request of honorable members who have timber growing in their electorates. Every one receives consideration from the Government except the poor users of timber.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
Wide Bay

– The honorable member should realize that there are some parts of Australia which are expected to pay their way by the development of their commercial assets. South Australia is not in a position to do so’, with the result that Queensland, which is developing its timber resources, among others, has been called upon to contribute towards a gift of £1,000,000 by the Commonwealth to South Australia, to help it to overcome its unemployment problem. The money, however, has been used to help to balance the State budget. The honorable member who would prevent other States from developing their resources sends his wheat to Tasmania, but buys his palings from Norway. The honorable member cannot complain about the price charged by Tasmanians for palings.

Mr Gabb:

– But why is there need for this duty?

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– To afford to the people engaged in the industry a reasonable amount of protection. Why has a bounty been provided for the export of wine?

Mr Gabb:

– Why is there a bounty on sugar production?

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– There is no bounty on sugar production.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. McGrath).Order! The committee is not dealing with sugar.

Mr BERNARD CORSER:

– I quite agree that the honorable member was out of order in his reference. I strongly urge the committee to stand by the subitem in the schedule.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– Mr. Chairman-

Mr Forde:

– It will probably be necessary to apply the closure.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I would not have risen again but for the reference of the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) to the £1,000,000 grant to South Australia for unemployment; because Queensland is living on the Commonwealth to the tune of £7,000,000 for sugar.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! The committee is not discussing sugar.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I can only say that it is monstrously unfair to allow the charge to be made against South Australia without giving honorable members an opportunity to reply to it.

The CHAIRMAN:

– I must ask the honorable member to confine his remarks to the item.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.Why should it be necessary to put a duty on the laths required for plastering walls and ceilings? The rate is not 10 per cent., 25 per cent., or 35 per cent., but 600 per cent. Surely this committee will not blithely and gailypass items of this kind without taking the faintest interest in them. I enter my protest.

Mr Forde:

– Question, question !

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The Minister’s remark impels me to continue. It is absurd to ask for a duty of 65 per cent. on laths for blinds.

Motion (by Mr. Forde) put -

That the question he now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 29

NOES: 0

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the item be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 32

NOES: 3

Majority . . . . 29

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item agreed to.

Item 293 agreed to.

Item 294 (Staves.)

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.- This item is in the same category as item 292, and I rise now to say what I was prevented from saying on the previous item by the application of the gag.

Motion (by Mr. Thompson) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 4

Majority 26

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item agreed to.

Item 295 (Shooks)

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– These duties are in accordance with the recommendation of the Tariff Board. The increase in duty proposed is 9s. each in respect of shooks covered by sub-items a to f, and 15 per cent. British preferential tariff, and 20 per cent. general tariff in respect of shooks, n.e.i. The imports under this item are not large, but, in view of the increase in duty on staves, some compensating increase is necessary on shooks

Item agreed to.

Items 296 and 298 agreed to.

Item 299-

By omitting the whole of sub-item (b) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: - “(b) Brushmakers’ wood ware and turnery, other than broomhandles, ad val. - British, 30 per cent.; intermediate, 35 per cent.; general, 40 per cent.”

By adding a new sub-item (c) as follows: - “(c) Broomhandles, ad val. - British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 65 per cent.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following tosub-item (b) : - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

Brushmakers’ wood ware and turnery other than broom and mop handles, ad val. - British, 30 per cent.; intermediate, 35 per cent.; general, 40 per cent.” and by adding the following to sub-item (c) : - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

Broom and mop handles, ad val. - British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 05 per cent.”

These two sub-items have been amended in order to bring mop handles under the higher rates of duty. Mop handles and broom handles are practically identical, many manufacturers using one for the other. This amendment corrects an existing anomaly which enabled broom handles to come under the duties prescribed for mop handles, and thus evade the higher rates of duty. The whole of Australia’s requirements of broom handles can be made locally.

Mr GABB:
Angas

– I rise to oppose this item.

Motion (by Mr. Riordan) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 29

NOES: 4

Majority . . . . 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 5

Majority . . . . 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 301 agreed to.

Item 302 (File and chisel handles.)

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– This is another instance of duties which are positively excessive, and which, if agreed to, will inflict considerable hardship on all who use these tools-

Motion (by Mr. Bernard Corser) put-

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 29

NOES: 4

Majority 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the item be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 5

Majority 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item agreed to.

Item 303-

By omitting the whole of sub-item (a) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item:- “ (a) Wood, all articles made of, n.e.i., whether partly or wholly finished, Bellows, Sashes and Frames, Window Screens, Walking Sticks, Hods, Mallets, Rakes, Grain Shovels, Saw Frames, Mitre Boxes, Wood Split Pulleys, Wood Bungs, Wood Type, Rules n.e.i., Rulers, Parallel Rulers, Set and T Squares, and Protractors, when partly or wholly of wood, except when imported in sets of drawing or mathematical instruments, Washboards, Knifeboards, ad val., British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 65 per cent.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I protest in the strongest and most unmeasured terms against the duty on rakes, seeing that a rake is an implement which is used by every man on the land. I assume that the members of the Country party will support me in opposing this duty.

Motion (by Mr. Riordan) negatived -

That the question be now put.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– This item covers a number of articles made of wood, including rakes, meaning the old wooden type of hay-rake. The present duties are ad val., British, 50 per cent., plus 10 per cent., making 55 per cent., which, with a surcharge of 50 per cent., totals 82½ per cent. The duties on foreign rakes are 65 per cent., plus 10 per cent., ad val, or 72½ per cent., which, with a surcharge of 50 per cent., equals 107¼ per cent. Steel rakes previously came under item 208 a, “ Manufactures of metals”, the rate on which is now, British, 45 per cent., ad val., and foreign, 60 per cent., ad val. It was found that when it suited the Customs Department to collect under item 303 a - “ Wooden ware” - it did so, because rakes are specially mentioned in the tariff, but today rakes, being included under “ wooden ware “, have to pay the special 50 per cent. extra duty, which makes their cost exceedingly high. Wooden rakes could be left under item 303 a, but steel rakes should be permitted to enter under item 208 a - “ Manufactures of metals “ - and be dutiable at 45 per cent. if imported from Great Britain, otherwise at 60 per cent., or preferably at lower rates. Rakes are essential to the man on the land, and we should see that their cost is not loaded with high duties. Every honorable member of this committee, irrespective of party, realizes the need for reducing the costs of production; but when honorable members of the Opposition urge that production costs should be lowered, their statements are misconstrued, and they are charged with advocating a reduction of wages. That charge cannot be laid against the Opposition in connexion with this item. A reduction of the duty on these articles is urged in the interests of the man on the land. It is unreasonable that he should be called upon to pay such excessive duties on the implements he uses. In addition to rakes, this item covers such articles as bellows, walking sticks, hods, mallets, grain shovels, mitre boxes, wood-split pulleys, and wood bungs, all of which are of greatest importance to the man on the land.

Mr Coleman:

– I rise to a point of order. I submit that the honorable member for Warringah is guilty of tedious repetition.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon R A Crouch:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

– The honorable member for Warringah may proceed.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The primary producer is the most important person in the community.

Motion (by Mr. E. Riley) put -

That the question be now put.

The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 30

NOES: 4

Majority 26

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Sub-item a agreed to.

Sub-item b.

By omitting the whole of sub-item (b) and inserting in its stead the following: - “(b) (1) Incubators, n.e.i., each - British, £3; general, £3 10s.; intermediate, £3 10s. or ad val. - British, 50 per cent. ; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 05 per cent., whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the sub-item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

  1. Incubators, n.e.i.; foster mothers and brooders, each - British, £2; intermediate, £2 5s.; general, £2 5s., or ad val. - British, 30 per cent.; intermediate, 35 per cent.; general, 35 per cent., whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

The. amendment will bring about a reversion to the 1921-28 tariff rates on incubators. When the rates were increased in June, 1930, the Government was not in possession of certain facts relating to the profits earned by the local company under the conditions obtaining prior to the imposition of the higher duties. We are satisfied, however, that the Australian manufacturers of incubators can successfully compete against overseas firms at the rates which prevailed under the 1921-28 tariff. In passing, I may say that the incubators manufactured in the Commonwealth compare favorably with the imported line in efficiency. They are particularly suited to local conditions, and can be serviced at short notice.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I am glad to notice this display of sanity on the part of the Minister, in that he has accepted a recommendation of the Tariff Board in a case where it has not advised an increase in a duty.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 305 and 306 agreed to.

Division 11.- Jewellery andfancy

Goods

Item 308 agreed to.

Item 309-

  1. Card cases, hatpins, match-boxes, serviette rings and clips, sovereign purses, n.e.i.; button hooks, glove stretchers, shoe horns and lifts, thimbles, ivory and other ornamental figures, feather dusters; beads, strung with or without clasps and beads unstrung, except those made of pearls precious stones or precious metals, ad val. -British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 60 per cent.
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That sub-item (b) be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the9th October, 1931. -

Card cases, hatpins, match-boxes, serviette rings and clips, sovereign purses, u.e.i. ; button hooks, glove stretchers, shoe horns and lifts, thimbles, ivory and other ornamental figures, feather dusters; drilled beads strung with or without clasps and drilled beads unstrung, except those made of pearls cultured pearls precious stones or precious metals, ad val. - British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 00 per cent.”

The inclusion of the word “ drilled “ is intended to ensure that only beads for stringing, or which are strung, are brought within this item. The word “ beads “ embraces all globular stones, glass, or any other substance, and it is desired, as stated to include only drilled beads, of the less expensive kind. Cultured pearls cannot be termed inexpensive, and the addition of the words “ cultured pearls “ excludes them from this item.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 311-

By omitting the whole item, and inserting in its stead the following item: - “311. (a) Bullion and coin; gold and silver bar ingot and sheet: cameos and intaglios, unset; gold and silver wire for embroidery bullion, purl; coral unmanufactured in any manner whatever - British, free; intermediate, free ; general, free.

  1. Precious stones unset, including pearls, ad val. - British, 10 per cent.; intermediate, 10 per cent.; general, 10 per cent.”
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the9th October, 1931- 311. (a) Bullion and coin; gold and silver bar ingot and sheet; cameos and intaglios, unset; gold and silver wire for embroidery bullion, purl: coral unmanufactured in any manner whatever - British, free; intermediate, free; general, free.

Precious stones unset, including pearls, British, free; intermediate, free; general, free.”

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 313, 314, 315, and 318 agreed to.

Item 319 (Gramophone records).

Mr BAYLEY:
Oxley

.- Has the Minister any information to give to the committee regarding the duties of 1s. 9d., 2s., and 2s. 3d. on gramophone discs over 6 inches and up to and including 16 inches in diameter?

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- The present rates were introduced on the 19th Juiie, 1930, and it will be seen that imports had commenced to increase again prior to the introduction of the tariff resolution. The proposed duties provide for three sizes, 6 inches and under, over 6 inches and up to 16 inches, and over 16 inches in diameter. This grading of sizes became necessary on the introduction of talking pictures, for the production of which records the Columbia Gramophone Company of Australia laid out a plant. The manufacture of records under 6 inches in diameter is now carried out in this country. The industry employs approximately 750 persons.

Mr HAWKER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT; UAP from 1931

.- 1. protest against the increase in duty, particularly on records used for talking films commonly displayed in country towns. It means that a heavier tax must be paid on the smaller plant used for talking pictures in the country. It is most unfair that the type of films shown in the cities, where the attendances are sufficiently large to warrant the installation of the more expensive type of plant, should bo admitted at the lower duty.

Mr BAYLEY:
Oxley

.- I was hoping that the Minister would be able to give fuller information on this matter. Is it possible for records by world famous artists who have not visited Australia to be reproduced in this country?

Mr Forde:

– A singer’s voice can be recorded in London, and when the “ mother “ record is brought here, hundreds of records may be reproduced in Australia from it. No duty is charged on the “ mother “ record.

Item agreed to.

Item 320 (Films)

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– Information was recently obtained by the honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Hawker) showing that in 1928-29, from the 1st July, 1928, to the 30th June, 1929, the duty at the rate of l¾d. per lineal foot returned revenue to the amount of £147,752, and for the period 1st July, 1929, to the 22nd August, 1929, the revenue totalled £49,460, which represented a falling off of almost £100,000. These films come from the United States of America. From the 23rd August, 1929, to the 30th June, 1930, the duty collected at the rate of 3d. per lineal foot amounted to £245,544; while for the period from the 10th July, 1930, to the 30th June, 1931, the rate of 4d. per lineal foot yielded a revenue of only £143,784. There must be some explanation of the fact that the receipts are less under a rate of 4d. than they were when the rate was l¾d.

Mr Coleman:

– What is your explanati on ?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– My explanation is that the same number of films is not coming in, and that they are being duplicated in Australia. If that be the case, the Government should consider whether it is obtaining all the revenue to which it is entitled. Clearly, if it is not receiving what it expected by means of this duty, theduty should be increased so that it may do so.

Mr Forde:

– To-day the negative is sent to Australia and positives are made from it, whereas formerly the negative and about five positives were sent. That accounts for the difference in the revenue.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– If the Government is satisfied that it is receiving all the revenue that it should obtain, I have nothing further to add.

Item agreed to.

Division 12. - Hides, Leather and Rubber

Item 324 (Chamois leather, &c).

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- This item deals with chamois leather, which is made from Australian sheepskins, and on that account I am somewhat diffident about opposing it; but the increase of 100 per cent. in the duty on importations from Great Britain appears to me to be excessive.

Mr Fenton:

– A very good chamois leather is made in Australia.

Mr GABB:

– I am glad to hear that. I hope that the local manufacturers will capture the Australian trade. But the question that is agitating my mind is, What protection is there for the consumer? Can the Minister give an assurance that the increase of 100 per cent. in the duty will not result in a corresponding increase in the price charged by the local manufacturers?

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- The Tariff Board inquired into this matter in 1929, and recommended that the rates imposed under the 1921-28 tariff be not varied. Conflicting evidence was tendered with respect to the quality of Australian chamois leather, compared with that produced in England. The board considered that, with an effective system of distribution, the industry in Australia should be able to compete against imported chamois leathers. The company which made the application for increased duties is now defunct, but manufacturing activities are being carried on in the same factory by a new company. “Whatever may have been the position at the time that the board’s inquiry was held, the fact remains that, as a result of the higher duties, the local company has increased its output by 33^ per cent. By reason of a more effective sales organization, which at present is in train, it expects that its output will double the quantity manufactured prior to 1930, The value of the sales of Australian chamois leather for the twelve months’ ended June, 1931, amounted to £9,000, while imports for the same period totalled only £4,000. Imports have decreased by over £15,000 during the last twelve months. The new company employs a system of distribution under which any wholesale merchant can obtain supplies at list prices, less 15 per cent. This effectively overcomes the objection raised by the Tariff Board. The prices of locally-made chamois leather are lower than those quoted for imported lines.

Mr McGRATH:
Ballarat

.- I support this item. There are three factories manufacturing chamois leather in Melbourne to-day, and they have almost captured the Australian trade. The quality of the article which they produce far surpasses anything that is imported. I have with me a sample of English chamois leather which is sold for 4s. 6d., and another of Australian chamois leather which is 25 per cent, heavier, and has a far better finish, which is sold for 3s. There has been a big reduction in price since the local factories started. There is every prospect that this industry will render substantial assistance to our graziers, because all the chamois leather that is sold in Australia, whether it be made locally or imported, is manufactured from sheepskins.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I was glad to hear the honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. McGrath) say that the price of the Australian chamois leather is lower than that of the imported article. But I shall watch developments in connexion with this industry, because I am averse to voting for a duty of 50 per cent, on any commodity; and if I find that the price is increased, I shall avail myself of the first opportunity to launch an attack in this House against the manufacturers.

Item agreed to.

Item 325 agreed to.

Item 326-

By omitting the whole item and inserting in its stead the following item: - “ 326. Leather, rubber, canvas and composition belting, and green hide for belting and other purposes, ad val. - British, 40 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 320. Leather, rubber, canvas and composition belting, and greenhide for belting and other purposes, ad val. - British, 30 per cent. ; intermediate, 35 per cent. ; general, 40 per cent.”

These rates are those that ruled under the 1921-30 tariff. The Tariff Board inquired into this industry, and submitted a comprehensive report with respect to it. For the reasons therein outlined, the Government proposes to revert to the former rates of duty.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 327 and 328 agreed to.

Item 329 (Boots, shoes, &c).

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- The articles included in this item are used extensively by the general public, and I fail to see how the Minister can explain satisfactorily the proposal to impose duties of 45 per cent., 55 per cent., and 60 per cent. These goods have been made in Australia for many years, and surely there is now no need for such heavy duties. If I can prevail upon another honorable member to call with me, I shall vote against such an excessive imposition.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I agree with the views that have been expressed by the honorable member for Angas (Mr. Gabb). It is utterly unreasonable in a country which produces all the raw materials that are used in the manufacture of boots, shoes, slippers, and every other article that is included in this item, that it should be proposed to impose such exorbitant duties as are provided, especially in view of the protection that is afforded by the primage duty of 10 per cent., the present exchange rate of 33 per cent., and the cost of insurance, freight, &c, in connexion with the imported article.

Question - That the item be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 3

Majority . . . . 25

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item agreed to.

Item 330 (Boots, rubber).

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- In the 1921-28 tariff, gum and wading boots from Great Britain were admitted free, and the intermediate and general duties were 5 per cent. and 10 per cent. respectively. Rubber boots are used extensively by fishermen, miners, and gardeners. The committee is entitled to an explanation of the reason for imposing a duty of 30 per cent. on articles which formerly were imported free of duty.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- The Dunlop Rubber Shoe Company Proprietary Limited and the North Aus tralian Rubber Mills Limited, Brisbane, are equipped to manufacture gum and wading boots. The former company is capable, with the equipment at its Sydney and Melbourne factories, of producing 125,000 pairs per annum, and the capital invested in the whole of its shoe industry is £325,000. The increases proposed should have the effect of preserving at least a reasonable proportion of the Australian market for local manufacturers, and assurances have been given that prices will not be increased.

Item agreed to.

Item 331-

Rubber and rubber manufactures, viz.: -

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding a new sub-item (d) - “On and after the 9th October, 1931:-

Compounded rubber, per lb., British, 2½d; intermediate, 2½d; general, 2½d.”

The amendment is in accordance with the recommendation of the Tariff Board, following its recent inquiry into the rubber manufacturing industry.

Amendment agreed to.

Item as amended agreed to.

Item 332-

By adding a new sub-item e, as follows: - “(e) Rubber and other hose, per lb., British, 1s.: intermediate,1s. 3d.; general,1s.6d. ; or ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 40 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move -

That the sub-item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931-

(1) Rubber hose up to and includ ing 1 inch in diameter, per lb., British,1s.; intermediate. 1s. 3d.; general,1s.6d. ; or ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 40 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.

Hose, n.e.i., ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 40 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I am opposed to the proposed increase in the duty on hose which is essential to the industry of market gardeners and is used extensively by householders. Hose has been manufactured in Australia for many years, and surely the industry is now sufficiently established to be able to continue without the support of duties ranging from1s. to1s. 3d. per lb. In respect of some qualities of hose, those duties are equivalent to 6d. a foot. Such high protection cannot be justified, and I shall vote against the amendment. (Quorum formed.]

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

.- My main objection is to the imposition of a duty on a poundage basis. Hose is not usually sold by the lb., and the rates proposed by the Minister, amounting,in some instances, to 170 per cent., will have a paralysing effect. If the Australian hose has any merits, it should be sufficiently protected by ad valorem duties. Hose is of considerable importance to market gardeners, particularly in the drier part’s of Australia, and to householders throughout the Commonwealth it is an essential convenience. I support the honorable member for Angas (Mr.. Gabb) in his protest against the proposed tremendous increase of duty.

Sitting suspended from 11.45 to 12.15 a.m. (Friday).

Friday, 9 October 1931

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I should like the Minister to explain why the duty on this item has been fixed at so much per lb.

Mr Forde:

– The Tariff Board recommended duties at per lb. rates in preference to ad valorem rates.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– In any case,the duties seem to me to be extraordinarily high.

Mr Forde:

– We are following the principle approved by the Tariff Board in fixing the duty at so much per lb.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– My recollection is that in the only report we have had from the Tariff Board oh this subject the duties recommended were, British, 5d. ; intermediate, 7d. ; and general, 9d., whereas the Government is proposing duties of1s.,1s. 3d. and1s. 6d., respectively. The difference between 5d. and1s. is very great. In my opinion, these duties are unnecessarily high, seeing that these goods are being produced in Australia. I do not think that the Government’s proposal can be justified on any ground.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 27

NOES: 3

Majority . . . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be further amended by adding the following to sub-item (f) : - “ And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

  1. Rubber Gloves, including Surgeons’, per pair, British,9d. ; intermediate, 9½d. ; general,10d. ; or ad val., British, 45 per cent. ; intermediate. 55 per cent.; general,60 per cent.: whichever rate returns the higher duty.

The Government has inquired carefully into this industry, and is satisfied that the reduced rates proposed in the amendment will provide a reasonable margin of protection.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 333 agreed to.

Division 13.-Paper and Stationery

Item 334-

By omitting the whole of paragraphs (1) and (2) of sub-item (c) and inserting in their stead the following paragraphs: - “ (1) News printing, not glazed, mill-glazed or coated, in rolls not less than 10 inches in width or in sheets not less than 20 inches by25 inches or its equivalent, per ton - British, £1 ; intermediate, £4; general, £4.

Printing, n.e.i. (glazed, unglazed, mill-glazed or coated), not ruled or printed in any way, in rolls not less than 10 inches in width or in sheets not less than 20 inches by 25 inches or its equivalent, per ton - British, £1; intermediate, £1 ; general, £4.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- 1 move -

That sub-item (c) be amended by adding the following to paragraph ( 1 ) : - “‘And on and after the 30th July,1931 -

1 ) News printing, not glazed, mill glazed or coated, in rolls not less than 10 inches in width or in sheets not less than 20 inches by 25 inches or its equivalent, per ton, British, free; intermediate, £4; general. £4.”

And by adding the following to paragraph (2):- “And on and after the30th July, 1931-

Printing, n.e.i. (glazed, unglazed, mill-glazed, or coated) not ruled or printed in any way in rolls not less than 10 inches in width or in sheets not less than 20 inches by 25 inches or its equivalent, per ton, British, free; intermediate, £4; general, £4.”

The object of this amendment is to permit this item, as set out in the July 1931 tariff resolution, to be incorporated in the present proposals. It will be recollected that the tariff resolution introduced on the 29th July last provided for an increase in the duty, and in order to make the legalposition secure with regard to any duties which may have been collected under that resolution, it will be necessary to incorporate it in the present proposals. The amendment makes no difference to the rates proposed under the July resolution.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment (by Mr, Forde) proposed -

That the item be further amended by inserting the following: - “By omitting the whole of sub-item (m) (twice occurring) and inserting in lieu thereof the following sub-item: -

Emery paper, emery cloth, flint paper (being glass paper), flint cloth, filter paper, litmus paper, irrespective of size and shape, ad val., British, free; intermediate, 5 per cent.; general, 10 per cent.

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

  1. m ) ( 1 ) Sand paper, glass paper and flint paper, irrespective of size and shape, ad val, British, 30 per cent.; intermediate 40 per cent. ; general, 45 per cent.

    1. Emery paper, emery cloth, flint cloth, filter paper and litmus paper, irrespective of size and shape, ad val., British, free; intermediate, 5 per cent. : general. 10 per cent.’ “
Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I protest against this method of tariff-making.

Mr Forde:

– These proposed duties on emery paper, &c, British, free; intermediate, 5 per cent.; general, 10 per cent., were recommended by the Tariff Board.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.This is a most unfair way of introducing proposals for additional duties. While it would not be reasonable to expect the Minister to circulate amendments days in advance, it is reasonable to expect him to make copies available to honorable members half-an-hour or so before he moves them. That would give us an opportunity of considering the proposals. This is undoubtedly tariffmaking on the blind. Honorable members have not the faintest idea of the incidence of these duties. It is not fair to the committee, nor to the country, to move amendments of this kind in this way.

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

– The honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) was moderate in calling this “ tariff-making on the blind.” It is very much worse than that. The Minister said, by interjection, a few minutes ago, that the new duties were “ free, 5 per cent, and 10 per cent.”, but I thought that I beard him read something about 30 per cent. when he submitted the amendment to the committee.

Mr Forde:

– There are two parts to the amendment. The duties on emery paper are free, 5 per cent. and 10 per cent., and on sand paper, glass paper and flint paper, 30 per cent., 40 per cent. and 45 per cent.

Mr HAWKER:

– I think that the Minister misled the committee by saying that the duties were free, 5 per cent. and 10 per cent.

Mr Forde:

– I had no intention of misleading the committee.

Mr HAWKER:

– It cannot be denied that the increased duties on certain items affected by this amendment are very substantial.

Mr Forde:

– The subject was inquired into by the Tariff Board, and the duties now proposed are based upon its recommendation. The report was circulated months ago.

Mr HAWKER:

– The report was circulated, but not the amendment. I protest against amendments being bludgeoned through in this way. This kind of thing has been done too often. The report on cotton yarn was definitely withheld until the amended duties on cotton had been forced through the committee.

Mr Scullin:

– We are not dealing with cotton yarn, so the honorable member’s remarks are not relevant.

Mr HAWKER:

– They are relevant to my complaint that amendments are being pushed through withoutany consideration whatever by the committee. I protest against this amendment, which involves an enormous increase of duty, being moved at this late stage of the debate, and also against the action of the Minister in attempting to mislead the committee as to the nature of the increase.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I also protest against the action of the Minister in moving this amendment at this late stage. He read it hurriedly, and the only thing which struck my ear was a duty of 45 per cent. I only wish that the people of this country could see how the business of this Parliament is being transacted. I know practically nothing of the amendment, and therefore I shall vote against it.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 26

NOES: 3

Majority . . . . 23

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Division 5. - Textiles, Felts and Furs, and Manufactures Thereof, and Attire

Postponed item 123 -

By omitting the whole of sub-item (a) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: - “ (a) Waddings and cotton wool -

Waddings, cotton wool (not medicated) n.e.i., per lb. - British, 3d.; intermediate, 3½d. ; general, 4d or ad val. - British, 20 per cent.: intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.; whichever rate re turns the higher duty.

Absorbent cotton wool (not medi cated), ad val. - British, free: inter mediate, 10 per cent.; general,20 per cent.

And on and after the 1st October, 1931 -

Absorbent cotton wool (not medi cated), per lb. - British, 4d. : inter mediate, 5d. ; general, fid. : or ad val. - British, 20 per cent.; inter mediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent. ; whichever rate return the higher duty.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by omitting subitem (a) and inserting the following in lien thereof: -

  1. Waddings, cotton wool (not medicated) n.e.i., per lb., British, 3d.; intermediate, 3½d. ; general, 4d., or ad val., British, 20 per cent.; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.
  2. Absorbent Cotton Wool (not medicated), per lb., British, 4d. ; intermediate, 5d.; general, (id.; or ad val., British, 20 per cent.; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.

Provided that the rate of duty payable on any absorbent cotton wool (not medicated) which was ordered before the9th October, 1931, and which is entered for home consumption before the 1st December, 1931, shall be, ad val., British, free; intermediate, 10 per cent.; general, 20 per cent.”

When this item was before the committee in June last, honorable members vigorously protested against the incorporation of a provision for the- imposition of deferred duties on absorbent cotton wool as soon as the industry was in a position to cater for a reasonable proportion of Australian requirements. Although this action was based on a recommendation of the Tariff Board, I agreed to give further consideration to the matter. Since then the position, so far as local manufacture is concerned, has materially altered. Steps have have been taken by Felt and Textiles of Australia Limited, with the assistance of the munitions factory at Maribyrnong, to have these goods manufactured in Australia. Existing machinery is being used, and the quality of the product is excellent. In fact, an examination by an independent consulting chemist of the locally produced cotton wool and a high-grade imported line showed that the Australian article possessed greater absorptive and retentive properties than the imported. Further experiments showed that the local cotton wool is completely neutral, is soluble in ammoniacal copper oxide solution, and conforms in all respects with the requirements of the British pharmacopoeia. A sample of the local product was tested at the Melbourne Hospital by the Hospital Board of Supplies, and was found by that authority to possess the qualities necessary for hospital use. The price of the locally-made absorbent cotton woolranges from1s. 2d. to1s.4d. per lb. This price compares more than favorably with the present landed duty-paid price of imported cotton of the same quality, and is well below tbe price charged to hospitals in respect of the imported. My inquiries show that the price charged to hospitals varies from1s. per lb. in respect of the lowest grade, to 2s.10d. per lb. for the highest grade imported. Australian requirements of absorbent cotton wool are conservativelyestimated at 400 tons per annum, and can be met by the local manufacturer. On this basis the munitions factory would show a return of £10,000 for preparing the material for cotton wool at the reasonable cost of 2¾d. per lb. The Australian cotton industry will also benefit considerably,as the cotton used in the manufacture of cotton wool will be in the proportion of 50 per cent. Australian and 50 per cent, imported. The position in regard to prices is explained in the following letter which I have received from the managing director of Federal Felters Proprietary Limited, Flinders-lane, Melbourne, under date of the 6th October, 1931:-

With reference to the proposal to increase the duties on absorbent cotton wool (not medicated), we guarantee that, if the proposed duty is passed into law, the cost of absorbent cotton wool to hospitals will not be increased above present-day levels. This guarantee is given on the understanding that production costs, i.e., wages and raw materials, are not increased. Any advantage gained by the lowered production costs will be passed on to the consumers. You are aware that I have given guarantees on other matters to your Grovernment, and it is within your knowledge that these guarantees have been honoured in every respect.

I have gone into the matter very carefully, and I consider that the position is quite satisfactory.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– I am strongly opposed to these duties. I think that, instead of being ratified, they should be reduced. When the item came before the committee in June last, the Minister realized that the numbers were against him, and postponed it. The honorable member for Indi was then one of its strongest opponents.

Mr Jones:

– I then believed that the new duties would increase the price of cotton wool to the hospitals. I am now assured that that will not be so.

Mr WHITE:

– The explanation of the Minister is too unsatisfactory. Honorable members who know anything about business are aware that wholesale prices have come down considerably. The price of this product should also be reduced. The imposition of these duties would inflict a rank injustice upon the hospitals of the Commonwealth. Already every hospital in Victoria is carrying on only with the greatest difficulty, labouring under heavy overdrafts.

The Minister has sprung this item on the committeewithout warning. When it was previously before the committee I received numerous letters, including one from one of the largest hospitals in Victoria, expressing gratitude to those who had opposed the imposition of these duties. Does the Minister pretend that those people have eaten their words? This is tariff-making of the very worst kind. The Government is making matters more difficult than ever for the sick, and for the charitable people who assist our hospitals. I intend to call for a division on the item, to see whether those Labour members who had the courage to voice their protest against the duties a few months ago will do so again on this occasion.

Mr CROUCH:
Corangamite

– I was one who protested very strongly against the imposition of these duties in June last. I had letters on the subject from the Oolac, Camperdown, Stawell, Maryborough. Ararat and other hospitals in my constituency. Before I would change my views I sought an assurance that the duties would not mean additional charges to the hospitals. I have a letter from the managing director of Federal Felters Proprietary Limited, addressed to me personally, and dated the 7th October, 1931, which reads -

Dear Sir,

I assure you, on behalf of the manufacturing interests which are affected by the imposition of a duty on absorbent cotton wool, that they will supply the Hospitals Board of Supplies at the same rate as such cotton wool could be imported from England - of British origin - wero no duty imposed, subject to such proportionate increase as occurs in Australian wages over the existing Australian wage.

I understand that 90 per cent. of our cotton wool requirements was imported from England. I feel that, if that letter is placed on record in Hansard it will be a sort of charter to our hospitals that their interests will be protected.

Mr CROUCH:

– That is not so. The guarantee is given on behalf of all of the manufacturing interests that are affected.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I am not satisfied with the explanation that has been given by the Minister. I am informed that each Victorian hospital uses approximately 50 lb. of cotton wool per annum. An additional charge of 4d. per. lb. on this product would involve those institutions in an aggregate increased expenditure of £2,000 per annum. 1 presume that when the Minister claims that the price of this commodity will be the same as that of imported cotton wool, he is adding the duty to the price of the imported article.

Mr Forde:

– The price of the Australian product will not be increased beyond that of imported cotton wool, landed duty free. The duty will provide the necessary protection, and enable local manufacturers to capture the Australian market.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The increased duties will give this company a monopoly. Is competition such an awful thing that it has to be suppressed? Why should the duty be increased to such an extent that the British article is excluded ?

Mr Forde:

– It will give employment to Australian people.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– That reason is insufficient to warrant the increase. The item has been sprung on the committee. I am strongly opposed to a duty, even of 4d. per lb., on a commodity that is so essential to our hospitals.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I prefer seeing the word “ free “ in the schedule against this item to any assurance from a manufacturer that he will not increase his prices. I am tired of hearing these repeated promises that there will be no increase in prices if protective duties are imposed. The greatest protection that could be given to our hospitals would be to allow cotton wool to come in duty free. Apparently some pressure has been brought to bear on honorable members opposite to make them change the views that they previously expressed on the subject, as they now appear to be quite submissive to the wishes of the Minister. The fact that cotton is grown in the electorate of Capricornia affords no justification to me for the penalization of our hospitals.

Mr JONES:
Indi

.- I previously opposed these duties because I thought that they would mean increased costs to the hospitals. I am satisfied with the assurance that has been given this evening that that will not be the case. As a result of the imposition of these duties, additional employment will be provided, and our hospitals will be able to purchase, without extra cost, an article that is equal, if not superior, to the imported product. Therefore, I shall support the item.

Mr.FENTON (Maribyrnong) [12.58 a.m.). - The Maribyrnong munitions factory has been mentioned in connexion with the manufacture of this commodity. It is not the first occasion that it has come to the rescue of the manufacturers of Australia. It has the machinery, chemists and experts necessary to turn out very fine work. One of the reasons why the Australian cotton wool industry has established itself so rapidly is that the necessary machinery was already in existence at Maribyrnong. The present activity of these works is of value from a defence point of view, as it is necessary always to keep a nucleus staff there.

I do not claim to be an expert in cotton wool, but I have seen and felt the article that is turned out at Maribyrnong^ and if bettor is turned out elsewhere it must be mighty fine. I have great sympathy our charitable institutions, but, when we have such irrefutable evidence that a first-class product can be supplied locally at no extra cost, I see no reason why the committee should not support the item.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– Evidently, the honorable member for Corangamite (Mr. Crouch) had timely wanting of the Minister’s amendment. Had I known it would be moved, I could have produced letters from hospitals condemning the Government’s proposal.

Mr Frost:

– -How could the honorable member forecast what letters he would receive?

Mr WHITE:

– I have already received letters from hospital authorities asking me to endeavour to get the duties on cotton wool removed. We are told by the Minis ter that the situation has altered of late, and, in explanation, he read a letter from a manufacturer of this class of goods. The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton) said that the ammunition factory at Maribyrnong had again come to the rescue. Has that factory come to the rescue of the sick people in the community? We are told that we ought to be proud of the Maribyrnong Ammunition Factory. Yet we know something of the trouble it caused through manufacturing sheet brass. Now another firm is using this government institution to help it in the manufacture of cotton wool. No doubt it will claim that its product has the hallmark of quality, because of its association with this government factory. For that reason, and because it provides work for a few operatives, we are asked to grant the firm a monopoly.

Mr Forde:

– There is nothing to prevent the honorable member from starting in competition to-morrow.

Mr WHITE:

– Where an industry can show that it can meet competition, and will not be a burden on the community, I agree that it should be protected, but I object to penalizing the sick in our hospitals in order to provide ft monopoly for any company. The remission of the duties on cotton wool would be a fitting subscription by the Government to the hospitals of Australia during hospital month.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Ch airman - Me. McGrath.)

AYES: 25

NOES: 4

Majority . . . . 21

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Division 6. - Metals and Machinery

Postponed item 206 -

By omitting the whole of sub-items (a) and (r)and inserting in their stead the following sub-items : - “ (a) Lamps and lanterns n.e.i. and parts n.e.i. thereof except wicks; coach and carriage lamp irons; metal reflectors and shades; lampware n.e.i. but not the columns or sheet-metal framework of street lamps; mica chimneys and other parts of lamps or lanterns composed of mica, ad vol. - British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent.; general, 35 per cent.

  1. Lamps of glass or chiefly of glass or with glass fonts; glass parts of lamps or lanterns other than chimneys, ad val. - British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 00 per cent.”
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following to sub-item (b ) : - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931- “ (b) Lamps of glass or chiefly of gloss or with glass fonts; glass parts of lamps or lanterns other than chimneys, ad val. - British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general,60 per cent.”

The amendment proposed constitutes an increase of 10 per cent. in the British preferential tariff on the goods covered by this sub-item. The Tariff Board recommended the rates in the item as it at present appears before the committee. In departing from the Tariff Board’s recommendation, the Government ascribes its reasons to events which have taken place since the board presented its report’ in June, 1930, and to facts which it considers were not stressed at the inquiry. In November, 1929, the Government increased the rates on the goods covered by this sub-item to 40 per cent., British; 55 per cent. intermediate; and 60 per cent. general. Those rates were retained until March, 1931, when, acting upon the recommendation of the Tariff Board, the rates were reduced to 25 per cent. under the British preferential tariff, and to 50 per cent, under the intermediate tariff.

That reduction in the British rate gave the manufacturer in Great Britain such a wide margin of preference over his foreign competitor that the latter was precluded from marketing his goods in Australia in competition with lampware shipped from Great Britain. The local company has received information to the effect that a European firm is seriously considering transferring some of its plant and a number of its employees to Great Britain. Should it do so, a duty of 25 per cent. would not enable the local company to carry on against the competition of this European company. Moreover, British manufacturers would be seriously affected, for the reason that foreign operatives working for the European company in Great Britain would not be subjectto the conditions of labour applicable to British workmen.

I remind the committee that the British preferential tariff of 25 per cent. has stood for many years, and has been regarded in the nature of a revenue duty. That the British manufacturer commanded a fair proportion of the market with a 15 per cent. margin of preference under the 3921-1930 tariff should not be lost sight of. It is also noticeable that under the rates in the sub-item, as it at present appeal’s to the committee, the British manufacturer enjoys a 35 per cent. margin of preference over the foreign manufacturer, which is 10 per cent. greater than that which Che Australian company receives over the manufacturer in Great Britain. Illuminating glassware is produced totally by hand labour; and the difference between the rates of pay in Great Britain and Australia is such as to render a25 per cent. duty imporent. Should the European manufacturer referred to remove his factory to Great Britain the position, from the point, of view of the local company, would be infinitely worse. It is interesting to note that under the 40 per cent. British preferential rate operating prior to March last, the company was enabled to extend its plant and- to provide employment for an additional 36 operatives.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– If it were not tragic, it would be ludicrous to find that the tariff of the Commonwealth of Australia is framed in this way. Some one tells the Minister that a certain European firm is likely to start a factory in Britain to manufacture certain glassware, and that therefore he had better alter the duties on that commodity, and the Minister agrees to do so! If some one outside Parliament said that that was how tariffs were framed, he would not be believed. We are not told the name of the firm which may commence operations in Britain, nor do we know the name of the man who whispered the story on a street corner. It is not uncommon for European and American companies to establish factories in Britain. When they do so, they have to conform to British industrial regulations. Moreover, they employ British workers. There have been instances in which our protective policy has encouraged companies from overseas to establish works in Australia. One such company set up a factory in Australia to manufacture lawn mowers when the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr.Fenton), who was then Minister for Trade and Customs, was in Britain. The machinery necessary for the manufacture of the lawn mowers was admitted practically free of duty.

Mr Fenton:

– What is the honorable member insinuating?

Mr WHITE:

– When, a British company, with British capital, commences operations in Australia, and refuses to dispose of any of its shares in Australia, the profits it makes go out of this country.

Mr.Forde. - But it employs Australian workers.

Mr WHITE:

– The cases, then, are exactly analogous-; the foreign company of which the Minister spoke will employ British workers if it establishes a factory in Britain.

Mr Forde:

– It will probably take operatives from its own country.

Mr WHITE:

– There is no justification for duties being raised in this way, merely because some one has scared the Minister. I oppose the amendment.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I oppose the amendment. The Minister has told us that a duty of 35 per cent. British preferential tariff is necessary to protect this Australian industry against British products. What an admission of our incompetence ! Industries which cannot ‘be carried on without duties of from 40 to 60 ner cent. are uneconomic. In this age, when electric light is superseding the ordinary oil lamp in all the main centres of population, the imposition of a heavy duty to encourage the production of a more or less obsolete commodity, is absurd. The Australian Glass Company is one of the harshest monopolies in Australia. Many of the distributing firms are hobbled, being compelled by the manufacturers to contract for supplies twelve months ahead. I am very suspicious of the relations between the Australian Glass Company and the Government. This monopoly seems to be able to get from the Ministry anything it wants. Yesterday, we saw how the Minister was prepared to allow the product of slave labour in Kenya Colony to be imported so that the Australian Glass Company might get it more cheaply. He was deaf to the appeals made on behalf of a South Australian industry. The company appears to have some “ pull “ over members of the Gofernment.

Mr Forde:

– The Government does not know any company in this matter; it is merely protecting Australian industries.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– The old duties under this item were 25 per cent., 30 per cent., and 35 per cent., and we are now asked to increase them to 35 per cent., 50 per cent., and 60 per cent. I am not satisfied with the explanation given by the Minister. Are lamps and lamp glasses to be produced by the Australian Glass Company ?

Mr Forde:

– I do not know the manufacturers.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I have a very shrewd suspicion that the Minister is adding to one of the most unfair and grasping monopolies in Australia. The amendment is being sneaked in at an early hour of the morning without explanation, and in the expectation that, in a comparatively small committee, it will pass unnoticed. I protest against any further bolstering of the Australian Glass Company. The goods covered by the item are not manufactured in Australia. Hurricane lamps, for instance, are not made locally, and it is unlikely that the expensive plant necessary for their manufacture would ever be installed in Australia.

Mr Forde:

– Hurricane lamps are made here.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Even if that bo so, the manufacturers should not require protection to the extent of 35 to 60 per cent. It is quite clear to me that the Government is placing another industry in the grip of the octopus company which controls the manufacture of glass in this country. If honorable members have any regard for the public they will not permit this monopoly to increase its hold upon the community. The imports of lamps and lamp glasses come not from Great Britain, but principally from Belgium, Czechoslovakia and Germany.

Mr Forde:

– Chiefly from the United States of America.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.Some come from America,but the present exchange rate and the general state of the money market are a sufficient protection against the importation of American goods. There is a sinister significance in the fact that a duty of 35 per cent. is proposed against the United Kingdom, from which none of these goods will be imported, and duties of 50 per cent and 60 per cent. against the countries which arethe only real competitors with the Australian manufacturers. The British preferential rate of 35 per cent. is intended merely to camouflage the advantage that is being given to a powerful monopoly. The policy of excluding goods of European origin inflicts grievous harm on the general public. Cheap glass jugs manufactured in Europe are bought readily by people of small means, but the policy of the Government is to exclude these and similar goods and concentrate the whole trade inthe hands of a monopoly which will supply to the market what it chooses, and charge for it whatever price it thinks fit. I enter my emphatic protest against the manner in which this item is being dealt with at this hour of the morning, and against the monstrous duties that are proposed in order to bring another field of industry under the control of the Australian Glass Company.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Forde’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mb. McGrath.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 4

Majority . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative. Item, as amended, agreed to.

Division S. - Earthenware, Cement, China, Glass and Stone

Postponed item 242 -

By omitting the whole of sub-item(b) and inserting in its stead the following subitum : - “ (b) Sheet, viz. : -

Plain clear, per lb., British, l½d. ; intermediate, l¾d. ; general, 2d.; or ad val., British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 55 pur cent.; general, 60 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.

Figured rolled, cathedral, milled rolled, rough cast, wired cast, and opalescent, per lb., British, 1½d. : intermediate, 1¾d. : general, 2d. ; Or ad val., British, 45 per cent.; intermediate.. 55 per cent.; general, 60 per cent. : whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– The item covering plain clear window glass first appeared in the tariff schedule as a deferred duty to come into operation on the 1st July, 1926. The rates were proposed after inquiry and report by the Tariff Board in1925, and were subsequently agreed to by Parliament as a deferred duty, and incorporated in the 1921-28tariff. At the Tariff Board inquiry, and also when the subject was being discussed in this chamber, reference was made to the method of manufacture that the Australian Glass Company had. intended to adopt. Representatives of British interests suggested that the methods employed in the factories of England were superior to the Fourcault system which the Australian company intended to use. The position is that the Australian Glass Company, before deciding on the method it would adopt, investigated the manufacture of window glass overseas to ascertain the best methods employed in any part of the world. The result of that investigation was in favour of theFourcault system. The December 1930, issue of the magazine Glass, which is the recognized organ of the glass industry in Great Britain, gives some up-to-date information regarding theFourcault system. An article in it, written by Professor W. E. S. Turner, O.B.E., D.Sc, reads as follows : -

Substantial improvement has been effected in the past live years . . . Strict temperature control is an essential factorin successful operation of the “ Fourcault “ process. . . The investigations of the flow of the glass through the drawing channels from the furnace have resulted in the modification of the design of the channels. The standard design at one time consisted of a drawing channel like a T-piece to the melting furnace length. . . such an arrangement involves the reheating and cooling of the glass as it [lasses successive reheating and drawing chambers. The most recent designs are planned to supply each machine with fresh glass from the furnace … (to overcome the reheating difficulty). The “Fourcault” process has undergone rapid development in recent years and has found its way into many countries . . . they are to be found in India, China, and Japan. Australia is about to install them (1930), while in the past five years they have rapidly displaced both the hand and machine cylinder methods and now possess a substantially greater production capacity than the Libbey-Owens process in the United States of America.

The Australian Glass Company has incurred a great deal of expense in establishing its factory. It has invested approximately £330,000 in the enterprise, and there is no doubt that it will be able to supply the whole of the Australian requirements. But huge stocks of glass were imported and stored some time ago, so that no orders are available at present for the Australian company. So soon as orders come to hand, the company will be ready to put its furnace into operation. The duties now proposed can be fully justified. I shall not deal with the matter further at the moment; but will provide honorable members with fuller information later if they desire it.

Mr GABB:
Angus

.- I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the9th October, 1931 -

Sheet, viz.: -

Plain clear, per 100 feet - British, 3s.; intermediate, 4s.; general, as.

Figured rolled, cathedral, milled rolled, rough cast, wired cast, and opalescent, per 100 feet - British, 3s.; intermediate, 4s.; general, 5s.”

In the past, window glass litis been dutiable at so much per 100 feet, or at an ad valorem rate. By changing the method of applying duty to this item, the Government is really camouflaging the position. It is now proposed that an extraordinary degree of protection shall be imposed, which will practically amount to prohibition. It should not be overlooked that the Australian Glass Company, which applied for and was granted these duties, admitted to the Tariff Board that it is not employing such an efficient plant as its competitors. How is it possible, in these circumstances, to justify any increase in the duty? The duties now being imposed are, without doubt, excessive. The old rates were - British, 2s. per 100 feet, and general, 4s. per 100 feet. The duties now under discussion are - British, 12s. 6d. per 100 feet for 16-oz., and 16s. 8d. per 100 feet for 21-oz. ; and general, 17s. 8d. per 100 feet 16-oz., and 27s.8d. per 100 feet 21-oz. These duties are equivalent to increases of 525 per cent. and 735 per cent. British, and 330 per cent, and 590 per cent. general. The provision for alternative duties of British 45 per cent. and general 60 per cent. ad valorem, whichever is the higher, is misleading, as invariably the duty per lb. represents from 75 per cent. to 200 per cent. onthe f.o.b. price. In spite of these facts, the Minister has made no attempt to defend his proposal, and I do not think he will do so. In the face of these extraordinary increases, one cannot help feeling that there is in this proposal something more than an intention to protect the Australian industry.

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– What does the honorable member mean by that statement?

Mr GABB:

– The Minister may make what he likes out of it. The Australian Glass Company apparently can get anything it likes to ask for. Surely it is not difficult for honorable members to see that the imposition of these duties must inflict still greater hardships upon those engaged in the building trade. It should be readily admitted that, if an industry needs such extraordinary protection as this, it is not in the interests of the community that it should be established here. It must be evident, from the comparisons which I have made, that the duties now proposed have been introduced without proper consideration, and in a haphazard fashion. The cost of window glass is important to every individual in the Commonwealth. In my opinion, it is impossible to prove that the imposition of these duties can be beneficial to the community in any way. I repeat that the alteration in the method of imposing the duty on window glass has camouflaged the real effect of the duties. I have moved my amendment with the object of reverting to the old method of imposing the duty. I ask the Minister whether the Tariff Board recommended that the duty be imposed at so much per 100 feet, or by weight, or on an ad valorem basis? I do not think that he will tell me that the board favoured the adoption of the weight method. I ask honorable members to agree to a reversion to the old method.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– We are now dealing with one of the most unpleasant and unsavoury items in this schedule. The extraordinary thing about this glass monopoly is that it can get whatever it likes to ask for from this Government, and that it obtains advance information as to when new duties are to be imposed.

Mr Forde:

– That is absolutely untrue.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I direct the attention of the Minister to a statement made at a deputation which I introduced to him on this subject. A member of the deputation told the Minis ter to his face that this company knew the exact date when new duties would come into operation. Subsequent events proved the truth of that statement.

Mr Forde:

– The honorable member has quite a wrong impression of what was said.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I am giving the Minister the facts. The statement to which I have referred was made in the Minister’s room, and I can produce the man who made it.

Mr Forde:

– A lot of importers will say anything, and attempt to intimidate any one, in order to obtain their ends.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– No man would make statements of that kind unless he had substantial reasons for doing so. It is idle for the Minister to say that people would say anything at all to achieve their end. J repeat that this company can get what it likes from this Government.

Mr Forde:

– That statement is quite untrue.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The facts are against the Minister. I cannot get anything and have never suggested that I can. Only the favoured few get anything.

Mr Forde:

– No one is favoured more than any one else. Every case is dealt with on its merits.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– In this particular case the deferred duty was imposed a month earlier than was originally intended. What is the Minister’s explanation of that? That is another instance of the tender treatment meted out by this Government to this industry.

Mr Forde:

– It is quite within the power of the Government to do that.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.That is so, but I am pointing out that this Government has given special consideration to this particular company.

Mr Forde:

– To prevent the dumping of imports.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.What I am saying in respect of this company is well known throughout Sydney. Honorable members have referred to the stocks of glass that are in existence. Let me say that this company, in anticipation of these increased duties, bought up all the stocks, even those of the small glass merchants of Sydney. It is the only firm that is selling glass, and it is soiling it at exorbitant prices to the people who require it in Sydney.

Mr Blakeley:

– Rubbish !

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Every word that I am uttering can be borne out by independent witnesses who have approached me.

Mr.Forde. - The honorable member’s statement is absolute misrepresentation.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– This company has obtained a monopoly of glass stocks in Sydney, and also of the manufacture of glass, because of these prohibitive duties, which amount to an embargo.

This item is similar to others in that it refers to the products not of Great Britain, but of the United States of America, Czecho Slovakia and Germany. The price of glassware used by the workers of this country, which was previously obtainable at a reasonable cost, has been largely increased as the result of the operation of this duty.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– This deferred duty was imposed by the previous Government.

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.Surely the honorable member does not say that the duty on sheet glass was imposed by a previous government?

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– This deferred duty was imposed by the late Mr. Pratten when he was Minister for Trade and Customs.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– In any case the duty has been put into operation by this Government. No sheet glass is being manufactured by this company with the exception of the small pieces which have been placed on the table, and I would require a guarantee that they were manufactured in this country.

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– I have previously invited the honorable member to inspect the works.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– At a meeting of the shareholders of the Australian Glass Manufacturing Company, held on the 25th June, since the imposition of these new duties, the acting chairman said -

The sheet glass industry in Australia will shortly become established. Under normal conditions the construction and installation of this establishment was planned for October. but unforeseen conditions must delay its getting into production for an indefinite period.

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– That statement was corrected’ in the following morning’s press. The honorable member is not acting fairly in quoting it.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The honorable member must exonerate me from any unfairness, because a paragraph appeared in the Argus inviting this company to answer a series of questions. It was asked, among other things, when it would produce sheet and other kinds of glass. Strange to say, no reply has been furnished by the company. Within the last few years there has sprung up in my electorate a new industry - the growing of tomatoes under hot-house conditions. The area between Manly and Narrabeen is covered with glass houses, in which tomatoes are being grown all the year round. To-day, David Jones’ establishment is exhibiting the products of this industry, which is entirely new. These growers have come to me asking where they can obtain glass for hot-houses, because supplies have been refused them by this particular company.

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– That is not true.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I have the word of the growers themselves.

Mr.C. Riley:- It is a misstatement.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Is the honorable member speaking for this company ?

Mr.C. Riley. - I am familiar with the industry.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The honorable member seems to display a strange familiarity with the details of this company. Is he a shareholder?

Mr Cunningham:

– Is the honorable member suggesting that glass cannot be bought in Sydney?

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.These growers have told me that it is impossible to buy in Sydney glass suitable for hot-houses.

Mr Cunningham:

– Does the honorable member contend that firms like Horderns cannot supplyglass?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I do. I say that no horticultural glass is available, while a very limited quantity of window glass is obtainable only at extortionate prices.

Mr Cunningham:

– I bought glass t here only last week.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The reason is that this company has bought up all the stocks of glass, and is selling it at its own price. The cost of these glass-houses has been increased by some 33 per cent. as the result of the operalions of these duties and the handing over of the glass industry to one company. There is not a tighter monopoly within Australia. This company has so organized the glass industry that the average man cannot buy it except under extortionate conditions. This is a most iniquitous duty. The Government managed to sneak in just prior to this item an additional item which has great potentialities for adding to the burdens of the community. Let me point out the significant and sinister form of these duties.A heavy tariff is imposed against Great Britain of some 45 per cent., which is quite inoperative, because much of this kind of glass does not come from that country. The operative duties are those of 55 per cent. and 60 per cent. Those are the loaded duties designed to prevent imports.

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Imports from where?

Mr. ARCHDALE PARKHILL.Prom the United States of America, Czecho Slovakia, and Germany. It has been pointed out that prior to November last the tariff on glassware was as set out in this item, and under it Great Britain had a preference over continental and foreign glassware of 40 per cent., which is unfair and unnecessary, as Great Britain exports to this country only the highest grade qualities of cut crystal, which is a luxury line, whereas other lines from the Continent are glassware for everyday use. That is the glassware which is being excluded. This tariff is most pernicious and dangerous, and the Government, in introducing it, has disregarded altogether the interests of the community generally.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– This Government has merely brought into operation deferred duties that were introduced by a Nationalist government after a careful inquiry had been made by the Tariff Board. Practically the whole of the raw materials used for our glass-making are of Australian origin.

The honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) said thatthe Australian Glass Manufacturing Company knew that the deferred duties were about to become operative. That is untrue. If the company made an intelligent guess, that is its business. It was certainly not given any information by the Government or by an officer of the Customs Department. I resent the insinuations of the honorable member for Warringah, hurl them back in his teeth, and challenge him to prove them.

Mr Riordan:

– The honorable member could not have read the report of the Tariff Board, which recommended the imposition of these duties.

Mr FORDE:

– Exactly; all this Government did was to make operative duties that were decided on by a Nationalist government. The honorable member for Warringah shed crocodile tears over the alleged difficulties of the tomato-growers in his district. As a matter of fact the Australian Glass Company definitely promised to make glass available to the tomato-growers at a price at least as low as that charged to them by the importing companies.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– That promise has not been carried out.

Mr FORDE:

– That is the fault of the tomato-growers to whom the glass was offered a month ago. The honorable member comes along with a brief from the importing companies, and makes groundless assertions. I am stating facts. I shall not allow his misrepresentations to go unanswered. Following upon its decision to undertake the manufacture of window glass, the Australian Glass Manufacturing Company engaged in the importation and sale of window glass manufactured overseas by the “ Fourcault “ system. This was done to enable the Australian Glass Company to establish a trade in the actual class of glass that it proposed to make here, and thus fix a market before the factory began to operate. To have done otherwise would have courted disaster, for the simple reason that a factory turning out large quantities of glass for which no market had previously been provided, would quickly be obliged to close down while a sales organization was built up. It must be kept in mind that overseas manufacturers of glass had for many years enjoyed an unrestricted business in Australia. Naturally, the idea of having to meet competition from an Australian company, assisted by a protective tariff, was not an agreeable prospect. Every difficulty that could be placed in the way of the Australian company by overseas interests was to be confidently expected.

The first essential to success on the part of the local concern was, therefore, to work up a business connexion in the class of glass it intended to manufacture. The importation of window glass by the Australian company has been referred to as an attempt to exploit the public by importing glass while the tariff was low, with the intention of holding it until the higher duties were imposed, and then selling the imported glass at increased prices. So far as the Australian Glass Company is concerned, it did not import glass for the purpose of holding it for a higher tariff; it did so to build up a trade Wore the increase was imposed. That it was not the intention of the Australian Glass Company to take advantage of the tariff to charge increased prices is borne out by the fact that.the company has not increased its prices, nor does it intend to do so. Any increase in the prices of sheet glass since the introduction of increased duties has been made by companies other than the Australian Glass Company, concerns over which that company has no control, and whose interests are allied with overseas manufacturers.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Who supplied the honorable gentleman with this information?

Mr FORDE:

– I assure honorable members that I have not consulted any manufacturer on the subject. I certainly did not obtain any information from Smith’s Weekly, as did the honorable member for Warringah. Criticism has been levelled at the Australian Glass Company for not having produced any window glass, although a protective duty has been imposed. The explanation is that the local company could not start to manufacture until there was a demand for the product. That demand could not exist while the country was loaded with imported stocks. Importers loaded up in 1925-26 and have kept heavy stocks on hand ever since, in order, to prevent the Government from bringing in the deferred duty. The terms of a deferred duty provide that it will not be imposed, until the goods concerned are made in Australia in satisfactory quantities, and. of a satisfactory quality. So long therefore, as the importers could keep the supplies of glass up to a point that precluded the Australian Glass Company from selling any appreciable quantity of its output so long was the possibility of commencing manufacture in Australia delayed. The inauguration of the industry meant the expenditure of £300,000. Once begun, the production of glass has to be continuous for a certain period, as the temporary closing down of a furnace means the loss of hundreds of pounds. Under these circumstances, the Australian Glass Company could not start the industry while the duty was still deferred. Action was first necessary to create the conditions under which a market would be possible when production began.

On the 19th June, 1930, the Government introduced a tariff proposal that abolished the deferred provisions and imposed the full rate. This was the only way ro check the importations that were keeping the stocks up to a point that prevented local manufacture. Before imposing the duty, the fact was ascertained that the falling off in building has lessened the demand for sheet glass, arid that the stocks held by various importers were sufficient to meet all requirements until the Australian factory reached production. The establishment erected by the Australian Glass Company is the finest sheet glass factory in the world. The works have now been completed, and production will be begun as soon as stocks of imported glass are sufficiently reduced to permit sales of Australian-made glass. As to what is the amount of protection necessary to enable an Australian company to compote successfully with imported window glass is necessarily somewhat uncertain. At the Tariff Board inquiry, the applicant company submitted estimates of what it thought would be its manufacturing costs, but, with an entirely new industry such as this, the estimates are necessarily somewhat speculative. In view of the disparity between rates of wages in this’ country and those in other glass-making countries, however, the Tariff Board recommended that the rates applied for be granted. They were made deferred duties. The offence of this Government is that it made them operative. Why were they provided by a Nationalist government, if they were not to be made operative some day? Why should the action of this Government be regarded with suspicion? I and my predecessor can look anybody in the face. We know no individual in these matters, but treat each application on its merits.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Why were the duties brought down at this juncture?

Mr.FORDE.- When it is anticipated that deferred duties are to be brought into operation, importers immediately endeavour to hoard up large stocks. In this instance, the importers desired to have sufficient imported glass on hand to prevent the local enterprise beginning operations for another eighteen months or two years. The Australian Glass Company gave an assurance that when it began production it would supply unlimited quantities of sheet glass for primary producers’ glass houses at prices substantially lower than those previously charged in Australia.

Mr Riordan:

– The company has been waiting for the orders of people like the tomato-growers in the Manly district.

Mr.FORDE. - Which gives the lie direct to the statement that those producers cannot obtain glass.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– I ask that that remark should be withdrawn. It is untrue, and most offensive to me.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon R A Crouch:

– I shall not direct that it be withdrawn. The words used were that the circumstances referred to “gave the lie direct to the statement” made by the honorable member.

Mr FORDE:

– If any criticism is to be made with regard to the imposition of the duty on this sheet glass it should he directed against the importing houses which are the agents of overseas manufacturers. Inquiries made by the department brought to light the fact that immediately the increased duties were imposed importing and distributing firms increased their prices by an amount equivalent to the increased duties. Huge Hocks had been imported by these firms, and the duty paid thereon was at the nominal rate of British, 2s., or general, 4s. per 100 square feet. There is no justification for such action. It is a deliberate exploitation of the public, including primary producers who use glass houses to grow certain products. A refreshing contrast in business morality is the action of the Australian Glass Manufacturing Company in refusing to increase its . prices for plain clear sheet glass on which the higher duty had not been paid. The company not only maintained its pre-tariff selling prices; it also inquired into the bona fides of each purchaser in order to ensure that sales were made to actual users of glass, and not to “ dummies “ of the glass importing and distributing houses. Owing to the various sections of the Australian Glass Company’s activities being closely related, it is rather difficult to state the actual capital invested and the number of employees in any one section. For instance, the capital invested and the men engaged in the refractory factory are partially employed in the production of sheet glass, partially of pressed ware, and partially of cut crystal. The same applies to the engineering works of the company, as well as to its administration. The following facts will, however, give an indication of the position of the Australian Glass Company and its branches: It has a factory in each State excepting Tasmania; there are four factories in New South Wales; the capital invested in the company is £1,654,489. Prior to the depression it employed 2,400 persons, although’ in the early part of this year the number of employees had fallen to 1,500. The new factory has been completed for the manufacture of window glass, opal glass, figured rolled, milled rolled, rough cast, wired cast and opalescent glass. The manufacture of cut glass is rapidly extending. These extensions will mean, the employment of approximately 500 additional workers when business becomes normal. That will bring the total number of employees up to nearly 3,000, the greater- proportion of whom will be male adults. The annual wages bill will be from £550,000 to £600,000. Certain importing interests, which were opposed to the establishment of a glass manufacturing factory in Australia, were prepared to kill the new industry by any means. The present Government put into operation the deferred duty recommended by the Tariff Board and adopted by the Nationalist Government only in order that employment might be given to our own people.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– During this tariff debate I have been a candid critic of the Government’s proposals. I have not hesitated to criti cize the backyard industries which have grown up in our midst without benefiting the country. But the figures which have been quoted by the Minister to-night regarding the capital invested in this industry, and the number of workers it employs, must make those who are generally opposed to the Government’s fiscal policy hesitate before rejecting the recommendation of the Tariff Board, which inquired into the industry. Knowing the rumours which were current regarding this company, I inspected its works. I went around quietly, and asked a number of questions. I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the replies I received, all of which were given with apparent candor. The representatives of the company were most willing to place their cards on the table before a representative of the people who wished to gain first-hand knowledge regarding its operations. The policy of the Country party is to assist the natural industries of this country by whatever means that can best be done. I understand that most of the raw materials required for the manufacture of glass are obtainable in Australia, and that practically the only things imported are certain chemicals. It is, therefore, evident that the glass manufacturing industry comes within the category of natural industries. When I visited the factory the furnaces were not in operation, but they will soon be ready to commence the manufacture of plain sheet glass. I, therefore, feel that the time has arrived when the deferred duty should become operative. I propose to vote for the duties proposed by the Minister.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– The Minister has made extraordinary preparation in defence of these duties. In other cases he has either refused to make a statement or has given only meagre information; but, in regard to this item, he has read a carefully-prepared brief, covering a mass of details relating to this company and the manufacture of glass. How did he know the statements that I intended to make?

Mr Forde:

– In view of the allegations against the company, I felt that I should give in detail the result of the investigation made by my officers.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The Minister’s defence is merely a series of assertions, uttered in a cheap-jack claptrap fashion, with many gesticulations and offensive references. He said that he would not allow this and that to be done. He cannot stop the people of this country from saying what they know. They want more than the antics of a cheap-jack Minister to satisfy them regarding this company. The Minister said that the price of glass had not been raised. I am prepared to produce before the Tariff Board, or any other impartial body, persons who will be prepared to swear that they could obtain glass only if they paid increased prices for it. The Minister’s contradictions are not evidence.

Mr.Forde. - The importers increased their prices, although they had not paid the increased duties on the glass they sold.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I admit that some small pieces of glass have been manufactured in Australia; but they have been of such a thickness that they have caused much trouble in the trade. The Minister said that as soon as the. factory is established it will commence to manufacture sheet glass. He appears to think that the establishment of a factory is all that is necessary to manufacture sheet glass. Yet he knows that an American company spent about £500,000 in endeavouring to manufacture sheet glass, and, because of atmospheric conditions, was unable to make it. The British company from which we obtain some of our sheet glass had experts examining England almost foot by foot before it decided on Doncaster as the site of its English factory. Its experts said that other portions of England were not suitable for the purpose. Frequently shakes and imperfections make it difficult to get large sheets of clear glass without flaws in it. The

Australian company lias no guarantee that it will he able to manufacture glass in this country. Meanwhile, Belgium, from whence most of our sheet glass came, in quite unfriendly from a tariff point of view.

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– What is wrong with the samples of glass exhibited ‘by the Minister?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Those samples remind me of a man who goes to a fish shop to get some fish to take home to his wife to prove that he went fishing. The Melbourne Argus of the 9th April, 1931, published a letter in which the writer asked Mr. E. Norton Grimwade to answer the following questions : -

  1. la it a fact that his Australian company has not Yet produced a single foot of. either sheet glass, figures rolled glass, rolled plate, wired cast, opalescent, or opal glass? 2. ls it a fact that when the deferred duty on sheet glass was agreed to by Parliament in July, 1926, it was on the basis that the Australian manufacturer would prove his ability to produce quantity and quality before it was applied? i

Perhaps the Minister will answer that question. A condition precedent to the application of the deferred duty was that the company should be able to satisfy the Minister that it could produce glass of approved quality in commercial quantities -

  1. That, notwithstanding this, the present Government brought the duty into force on the 20th June, 1930, before the Australian manufacturers had even attempted to manufacture, although four years had passed, including the greatest building boom in our history? 4. That the duties on sheet glass were made operative on the 20th June, 1930, although the Minister had proclaimed a further deferment until the 1st August, 1930? fi. Why have prohibitive duties on figured rolled glass been instituted since the 20th June, when Mr. Grimwade admits that his company will not be producing “ until the end of the present month,” although Mr. Smith, manager of the Australian company, told the Tariff Board in Sydney on the 4th February that it would definitely bc producing on the 23rd March last? G. Did Mr. Smith admit to the Tariff Board that not even an experimental foot of figured rolled had been made by his company up to the 4th February, that be, therefore, could not give production costs, nor could he give the board any figures to support the excessive duty applied for? 7. If the Australian company has apparently not yet reached the stage of knowing production coats, what is the basis of Mr. Grimwade’s “confidence” regarding selling prices? S. In view of Mr. Grimwade’s statement that “ prices will satisfy every one,” this obviously must be on basis of prices ruling before the 20th June, 1930, and presumably it is proposed to sell at such ju ices or lower, where, then, is the need for the present excessive duty? !>. Will Mr. Grimwade deny that all the duties under discussion are in contravention of the Tariff Board Act? 10. Does Mr. Grimwade consider that glass duties, which range from 100 per cent, to more than 300 per cent, on f.o.b. values, are warranted, even if local manufacturers were actually producing? A reply to the foregoing questions would be enlightening to the public

Mr. Grimwade has maintained a deathlike silence. He has never answered those questions, because any attempt to do so would only unmask his industry, exposing it to the public as an octopus-like monopoly that should never have been started, and whose operations should be closely investigated.

Mr RIORDAN:
Kennedy

– On an earlier item relating to glass the honorable member for Warringah (Mr. Parkhill) almost persuaded me that this industry was not entitled to the protection which the Government is proposing. I was surprised, therefore, to hear the Minister state subsequently that the deferred duty was imposed by the previous Ministry.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The honorable member heard me say upon what conditions the duty was to be applied..

Mr RIORDAN:

– A young industry must have protection until it is established. The honorable member for Warringah, is one of the most expert in this chamber at throwing stink bombs. When dealing with the timber duties he spoke from a brief supplied by the importers, and when his statements were challenged he ran away. To bolster up his case against the glass company he made a violent personal attack on the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Forde), referring to him as a cheapjack uttering claptrap. No member of this committee utters more claptrap or exploits the art of bluffing more than does the honorable member for Warringah. He told us that a tomato-grower at Manly had complained that he could not get glass from the Australian manufacturer. That is not true; the representative of the Australian Glass Company assures me that the company has been waiting a month for orders from the tomato-growers. I accepthis assurance, because I do not believe that any business man “would refuse to take orders.

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– The company cannot supply the glass. I was told that last week.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Have any orders been forwarded ?

Mr Archdale Parkhill:

– Yes.

Mr RIORDAN:

– I am afraid that the honorable members’ informant has been “ pulling his leg.” The honorable member stated also that the Glass Company had increased its prices. That, too, is denied, and the honorable member is challenged to prove his statement. The prices of glassware are those which were operating before the duty was imposed, and glass similar to the samples on the table is sold at half the price of the imported article.

Mr HAWKER:
“Wakefield

– The allegation that the honorable member forWarringah (Mr. Parkhill) ran away when challenged to prove statements he made earlier in this discussion is most unfair; the honorable member could not reply, because he was “ gagged.”

Motion (by Mr. E. Riley) put -

That the questionhe now put.

The committee divided. ( Chairman - Mr. McGrath. )

AYES: 28

NOES: 4

Majority . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Question - That the amendment (Mr. G abb’s) be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 3

NOES: 29

Majority . . 26

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Item agreed to.

Postponed item 244 agreed to.

Postponed item 250 (Bottles, flasks, jars, &c.)

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 250 (a) Bottles, Flasks, and Jars, over 8 drains fluid capacity, of fancy or ground glass, empty or containing goods not subject to ad valorem duty, provided that bottles, flasks, and jars ground only in the neck for the purpose of fitting the stopper shall not be deemed ground ; Thermometers, other than clinical, ad val., British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent.; general, 40 per cent.

  1. Bottles, Decanters, Flasks and Jars, over 8 drams fluid capacity, of cut glass, empty or containing goods not subject to ad valorem duty, ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general60 per cent.
  2. Glassware, n.e.i., per dozen pieces, British, free; intermediate,1s.; general,1s.; or ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 00 pur cent.; which ever rate returns the higher duty.
  3. Laboratory Glassware, n.e.i., and Apparatus of glass for scientific purposes, n.e.i., ad val., British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent.; general, 40 per cent.
  4. Heat-resisting Glassware for cooking purposes, ad val., British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent.; general, 40 per cent.

And on and after the 1st January, 1932 -

  1. Heat-resisting Glassware for cook ing purposes, ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 60 per cent.

    1. F ) Glassware, other than cut glass and heat-resisting glassware for cooking purposes, viz., dishes, tumblers, salads, bowls, nappies, jugs, candlesticks, butters, battery jars or cells, vases, trays, comports, flowerblocks, mugs, sundaes, per dozen pieces, British, 9d. ; intermediate, 1s.; general,1s.; or ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general,60 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.

  2. Vacuum Flasks, Jugs, Cans, and similar vacuum containers and parts thereof, ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 00 per cent.”

The amendment affects the item as it appears in the schedule in the following respects : - “ Decanters “ are included in sub-item b; an increase of 10 per cent. is made in the British rate under sub itemsb, c, and f; and a new sub-itemg is incorporated to cover “ VacuumFlasks and similar Vacuum Containers and parts thereof “. The reasons which the Government advances for these amendments are as follow: First, some doubt existed as to whether decanters could be regarded as bottles, and it was deemed advisable to mention them specially in item 250 b which covers cut glass bottles, &c. Decanters which are of glass other than cut glass will be dutiable under item 250 c. Secondly, as to the increase of 10 per cent. in the British preferential tariff, the Tariff Board has recommended that the ad valorem British rate in respect of the item should be 25 per cent. The British rate of 35 per cent. ad valorem proposed in the amendment is the same as that introduced in November, 1929, in respect of certain glassware, and on the 19th June, 1930, in respect of certain other glassware, and which was lowered to 25 per cent. in March last. Immediately rates equal to those now proposed were previously introduced, an impetus was given to the local firm engaged in the manufacture of glassware.For instance, the company had contemplated the abandonment of its activities in the cut-ware section of the industry, but, inspired by the additional protection granted, it intensified its manufacturing operations and increased the number of hands employed in the manufacture of cut glass articles from seventeen to 100. Shortly after the British rate on cut-ware was increased, “Webb’s Crystal Glass Company Limited, one of the largest manufacturers of cut glass in England, commenced negotiations with the local company with a view to joint manufacture in Australia of this country’s requirements, but as soon as the British rate reverted to 25 per cent. negotiations ceased. ‘ The 25 per cent. British preferential rate on glassware has operated for many years, and has been looked upon in the past as a revenue duty. It offered no inducement to British manufacturers to operate in Australia. Under a protection of British, 35 per cent. ; intermediate, 50 per cent., and general, 60 per cent., the Crown Crystal Glass “Works Limited decided to manufacture certain glassware in Australia, and was proceeding satisfactorily with its preparations;but the reversion to the 25 per cent. British rates has served as a distinct set back to the company. British manufacturers are unlikely to commence manufacture in Australia so long as they can land their goods at prices which are competitive with local glassware. With a margin of 15 per cent. under the 1921-30 tariff, British manufacturers secured a goodshare of the local market.

The Government has been approached by representatives of foreign countries who are large purchasers of Australian produce and are concerned in the export of glassware to Australia, who have complained that the 35 per cent. margin of preference accorded to Great Britain over their countries’ glassware was out of all reason. They drew attention to the fact that the margin of preference enjoyed by Great Britain over foreign countries was 10 per cent. greater than that which the Australian manufacturer received over the British manufacturer. The Government had the choice of two courses - to reduce the foreign rate to 50 per cent. or to increase the British rate to 35 per cent. The second course has been adopted, for the reason that the local manufacturers could not hope to compete with the lower foreign rate, and the Government is of the opinion that the interests of the Australian industry should be preferred to those of the industry conducted in the Mother Country. The Tariff Board sets out fully its reasons for recommending the rates under the general tariff now before the committee. [Quorum formed.] I feel that I should make some reference to the strides which this industry has made under the protective tariff imposed by the present Government. In November, 1929, 274 hands were employed in this work; but by March, 1931, the industry accounted for the employment of 557 hands - an increase of 283 in a period of fourteen months. With the British rate again increased to 35 per cent., it is safe to assume that employment will still further increase. A considerable amount has been expended on buildings and plant in order to cater for the variety of glassware which the public demands, and the additional machinery required was almost wholly manufactured in Australia. I hope that this amendment will be agreed to without delay.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

’. - The Minister’s statement was quite unconvincing to me, and for reasons which I gave when discussing the previous item I intend to vote against the imposition of increased duties on the items now before the committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Division 5. - Textiles, Feltsand Furs, and Manufacturesthereof, and Attire. item123-

By omitting the whole of sub- item (a) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: -

Waddings, cotton wool (not medicated ) , n.e.i., per lb. - British, 3d. ; intermediate, 3½d. ; general, 4d. Or ad val. - British, 20 per cent. ; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.

Absorbent cotton wool (not medicated), ad val. - British, free: intermediate, 10 per cent.; general, 20 per cent.

And on and after the 1st October, 1931- -

Absorbent cotton wool (not medicated), per lb. - British, 4d. intermediate, 5d. ; general,6d. Or ad val. - British, 20 per cent.; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.”

The CHAIRMAN:

– By leave, the committee will reconsider item 123. When we were discussing it, an amendment by the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn) was overlooked. The amendment is -

That the item be amended by inserting after the words “ (not medicated) “ in sub-item (a) paragraph 2 the words “ other than for use in hospitals “

Question - That the amendment (Mr. Nairn’s) be agreed to - put: The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 4

NOES: 28

Majority . . 24

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

Amendment negatived.

Division 13. - Paper and Stationery

Item 338-

By omitting the whole of sub-item (a) (twice occurring) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item : - “ (a) Manufactures of, or articles partly manufactured of, framed (including the weight of the frame), or untrained, having advertisements thereon; Price Lists: Catalogues: Circulars; Prospectuses; Showcards; Printed, Photographed or Lithographed Matter, Pictures n.e.i.. and Posters of all kinds, used or intended to be used for advertising purposes; Pictures used or intended tobe used in the manufacture of box tops, pad covers, calendars, almanacs and the like; all Printed or Embossed Bags or Containers; Calendars, Almanacs, and Diaries; Australian Directories, Guides and Timetables; Paper Patterns; Labels of all kinds; Tickets, printed, viz., Railway, Tramway, and other, including paper and board printed or prepared in any way therefor; Billheads, Memorandum Forms, and all other printed, ruled or engraved Forms of Paper n.e.i. ; also Printed Wrapping Paper, and Printed Surface Coated Paper; Paper Patty Pans and like paper containers of all sizes, also paper chocolate cups, including the weight of the immediate containing cartons, per lb, British,1s.; intermediate,1s. 3d.; general,1s.6d. ; or ad val., British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 55 per cent. ; whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following to sub-item (a) : - “ And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

Manufactures of, or articles partly manufactured of, framed (including the weight of the frame), or unframed, “ having advertisements thereon; Price Lists; Prospectuses; Showcards; Catalogues, Circulars; Printed Photographed or Lithographed Matter, Pictures, n.e.i., and Posters of all kinds, used or intended to be used for advertising purposes; Pictures used or intended to be used in the manufacture of box tops, pad covers, calendars, almanacs and the like; all Printed or Embossed Bags or Containers; Calendars, Almanacs, and Diaries; Australian Directories, Guides, and Timetables; Paper Patterns; Labels of all kinds; Tickets, printed, viz., Railway, Tramway, and other, including paper and board printedor prepared in any way therefor; Billheads, Memorandum Forms, and all other printed ruled or engraved Forms of Paper n.e.i.; also Printed Wrapping Paper, and Printed Surface Coated Paper; Paper Patty Pans and like paper containers of all sizes, also paper chocolate cups, including the weight of the immediate containing cartons, per lb. - British,1s.: intermediate.1s. 3d.; general,1s.6d. ; or ad val. - British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.: general, 55 per cent.; whichever rate returns the higher duty.”

In the resolution introduced on the 19th June, 1930, all catalogues and circulars, whether for advertising or for other purposes, were made dutiable at the rates prescribed in item 338 a. The amendment exempts from the operation of this item catalogues and circulars which are not used or intended to be used for advertising purposes.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 340-

By omitting the whole item and inserting in its stead the following item: -

Manufactures of Paper n.e.i.; Paper Parasols; Paper (other than gummed paper) in rolls or reels of less than 0 inches in width; Paper and Board in the form of discs, ovals, small squares and other small shapes not exceeding 144 square inches in area for all purposes when not elsewhere dutiable at a higher rate, ad val., British, 45 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent.; general, 55 per cent.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following to sub-item (c) : - “ And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

Manufactures of paper n.e.i. and manufactures of board n.e.i.; paper parasols; paper (other than gummed paper) and board in rolls or reels of less than six inches in width; paper and board in the form of discs, ovals, small squares and other small shapes not exceeding 144 square inches in area for all purposes when not elsewhere dutiable at a higher rate - ad val., British, 45 per cent. ; intermediate, 50 per cent. ; general, 55 per cent.”

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I object to this amendment. It is entirely wrong to impose duties of 50 per cent. and 55 per cent. in respect of many of the articles covered by this item. It is of no use to divide the committee; but I protest against these duties because they arc unfair. The item should be referred back to the department for reclassification. In some instances the duty may be legitimate, but in other instances it is certainly not legitimate.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 341, 342, and 343 agreed to.

Division 14. - Vehicles

Item 352-

By omitting the whole of sub-item (a) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: -

*’ (a) . - .

  1. Motor cycle parts plated brazed enamelled or permanently joined, n.e.i. (not including parts of leather or rubber) ; cycle motor cycle and side car accessories n.e.i. and parts thereof (except of leather or rubber), including steel trouser clips, steel toe clips and bands, parcel carriers., and bells; cycle saddles and saddle covers; inflator clips and connexions, ado val. - British, free; intermediate, 15 per cent.; general, 25 per cent.”

Mr.FORDE (Capricornia - Minister for Trade and Customs) [3.8 a.m.]. - I move -

That the item bo amended by adding the following to paragraph (2) of sub-item

  1. : - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - (2) Motorcycle parts plated brazed enamelled or permanently joined, n.e.i. (not including parts of leather or rubber ) ; cycle motor cycle and side car accessories (except felt saddle covers) n.e.i. and parts thereof (except of leather or rubber), including steel trouser clips, steel toe clips and bands, parcel carriers, . and bells; cycle saddles and sad- covers (except of felt) ; inflator clips and connexions - ad val., British, free; intermediate, 15 per cent.; general, 25 per cent.”

The object of this amendment is to exclude felt saddle . covers.’ from paragraph 2 of sub-item a. They will then be dutiable under paragraph 2 of item 122 at the rates of 60 per cent. British preferential tariff, 65 per cent, intermediate tariff, and 75 per cent, general tariff.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 354, 355, 357 and 359

Division 15. - Musical Instruments

Items 361 and 365 agreed to.

Division 16. - Miscellaneous

Items 367 and 369 agreed to.

Item 374 -

By omitting the whole item and inserting in its stead the following item: - (dV, Packings, viz.: -

) Asbestos or chiefly of asbestos ; cotton or chiefly of cotton, ad val. - British, 20 per cent; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.

Felt or wool, or chiefly of felt or wool, ad val. - British,60 per cent.;, intermediate,65 per cent.; general, 75 per cent.

Other, ad val. - British, 40 per cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following to sub-item (D) : - “And on and after the9th October, 1931 - (D) Packings, viz.: -

Asbestos - ad val., British, 20 per cent.; intermediate, 25 per cent.; general, 30 per cent. (2)Felt- ad val., British.60 pe cent.; intermediate, 05 per cent.; general, 75 per cent.

Other - ad val., British, 4.0 pe cent.; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 50 per cent.”

The proposed amendment is desired by the department in order to assist in the interpretation of the tariff. The original proposal has been found difficult in practice. The rates for a3besto3 packings are the same as’ in the 1921-28 tariff. Felt packing is provided for at rates similar to those on articles’ of felt in item 122 (2). Other packings are made principally of- rubber, cotton or cordage, and the proposed rates approximate the rates under the generic headings in the tariff.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 375 agreed to.

Item 376 -

By omitting the whole item (twice occurring) and inserting in its stead the following item: - “ 376. Bags, baskets, boxes, cases, trunks, purses, wallets, with or without fittings, viz. : -

Fancy boxes containing goods subject to duty ad valorem to be dutiable at the same rate as the goods.

Jewellery boxes, fancy, ad val. - British, 35 per cent.; intermediate. 45 per cent.; general, 55 per cent.”

Amendment (by Mr. Forde) agreed to -

That the item be amended by adding the following to sub-item (E) : - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

Fancy boxes containing goods (other than the goods mentioned* in tariff item 197) subject to duty ad valorem to be dutiable at the same rate as the goods.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be further amended by adding the following to sub-item (f) : - “‘And on and after the 9th October, 1931 -

  1. (1) Jewellery Boxes, fancy - ad val., British, 35 per cent. ; intermediate, 45 per cent.; general, 55 per cent.

    1. Fancy boxes cabinets canteens or fancy cases - containing goods mentioned in tariff item 197 and fancy boxes cabinets canteens or fancy cases imported empty which arc ordinarily used as containers for the goods mentioned in tariff item . 197 - ad val., British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 55 per cent. ; general, 05 per cent.”

The object of these amendments is to grant protection to manufacturers of cutlery cases and boxes.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– All these duties should be reduced by 25 per cent. I hope that another place will see fit to alter the tariff schedule to that extent.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– I object to this amendment to give protection to manufacturers of cases for cutlery. The Sheffield manufacturers take pride in putting their cutlery in expensive canteens, and they do not send their best goods out by the dozen whether they be knives, forks, or spoons. These canteens are expensive productions for presentations, and no one inAustralia makes a similar article.

Mr Blakeley:

– They have been made here for the last twelve years.

Mr WHITE:

– Only in blackwood and less expensive materials. The canteen made in Sheffield is a totally different and more elaborate production.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Items 379, 380, 381, and 390 agreed to.

Item 392 (Yarns)

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

– This item concerns the whole of the cotton industry. When the manufacturing end of this industry was being considered, the Minister refused to make available to honorable members the report of the Tariff Board upon cotton yarn. That report was circulated a few days ago, and now this item is being rushed through the committee. This duty is being imposed to suit one constituency, although the report of the Tariff Board is entirely against such high rates. Time and again the Minister has refused to make the report available, and now, within 24 hours of its presentation to members, the item is rushed through. I hope that another place will protest appropriately against these excessive duties, which are entirely in the interests of one constituency.

Question -That the item be agreed to - put. The committee divided. (Chairman - Mr. McGrath.)

AYES: 28

NOES: 0

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Item agreed to.

Items 394, 397, 400, 408, 413, 419 and 420 agreed to.

Item 423-

By omitting the whole item and inserting in its stead the following item: - “423. (a) Trophies won abroad and decorations medallions and certificates awarded or to be awarded and sent from abroad to individuals and trophies or prizes sent by donors resident abroad for presentation or competition in Australia as prescribed by departmental by-laws, free.

  1. Goods, which would otherwise be dutiable, not exceeding a total value of £1 (but not including spirituous liquors, tobacco, cigars and cigarettes) being presents sent per post by private individuals resident abroad to private individuals resident in Australia, as prescribed by departmental bylaws, free.”
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by adding the following: - “And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 423. Trophies won abroad and decorations medallions and certificates awarded or to be awarded and sent from abroad to individuals and trophies or prizes sent by donors resident abroad for presentation or competition in Australia, as prescribed by department by-laws, free.

The proposed new sub-item was included in the schedule for the purpose of affording relief in cases where small gifts had been sent from private individuals abroad to private individuals in Australia. In many cases the recipients were not in affluent circumstances.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Item 424 - Vessels trading intra-state or interstate.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– This is the only charitable action of the Government in connexion with the tariff schedule. It will give relief to those who receive presents from overseas; in many cases to poor migrants who would otherwise have to surrender the gift because of their inability to pay the duty.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– It is a very considerable time since the Tariff Board reported on this item. I suggest that the Minister should consider resubmitting it to that body, especially with regard to the operation of the deferred duty.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– There is a deferred duty, which dates from the 1st July, 1932, on vessels trading intra-state or interstate, or otherwise employed in Australian waters for any continuous period of three months. Before that duty is made operative the matter will be referred to the Tariff Board for public inquiry and report. As the board already has a long list of items to consider, I do not know when it will deal with this one.

Item agreed to.

Items 432 and 433 agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

-. - move -

That the following new item be added: - “ 104. By adding the following to item 104:-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 104. Waxes -

  1. Paraffine Wax, perlb., British, 1d.; intermediate, lid.; general. 2d.

  2. Beeswax, per lb., British,1d.; inter mediate, 3d.; general, 4½d.

    1. N.e.i., including Stearine, Carnauba, Ceresine, Japanese, or Vegetable Wax, VegetableWax, n.e.i., per lb., British,1d.; intermediate, 1d.; general, 1½d.’”.

The only alteration is in the duties on beeswax, which have been increased in the intermediate tariff from1d. to 3d. per lb., and in the general tariff from 1-Jd. to 4½d. per lb.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the following new item be added: - “ 124. By adding the following to item 124:-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 124. Braids, Fringes, or Edgings of textile materials, not being for attire, ad val., British, 10 per cent.; intermediate, 25 per cent. ; general, 35 per cent.’ “.

The Tariff Board has recently inquired into the question of increased duties on these goods, and the above are in conformity with its recommendation.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the following new item be added: - “ 225. By adding the following to item 225:-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 225 (a) French Chalk and other preparations of Steatite, n.e.i., ad val., British, 20 per cent.; intermediate, 20 per cent.; general, 30 per cent.

School Chalks, ad val., British, 50 per cent. ; intermediate, 55 per cent.; general, 00 per cent.

Crayons and Pastels including Solid Lead Pencils; Chalks, n.e.i., ad val., British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent. ; general, 35 per cent.’ “.

The only alteration to this item is an increase in the duties on school chalks from 25 per cent., 30 per cent., and 35 per cent. to 50 per cent., 55 per. cent., and 60 per cent. In 1928, the Tariff Board exhaustively inquired into the matter of duties on school chalks and recommended these rates. The report of the hoard has been printed and circulated to honorable members, and gives full information on the subject. It indicates that the Tariff Board was satisfied that an excellent case was made out for the imposition of these duties, also that the local plant is efficient and capable of supplying Australian requirements. Both the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Gullett) and the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton) are interested in the matter, and urged that this should be included in the schedule as a new item.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– These duties are far too high. I want it to be understood because I do not divide the committee on the item that I agree with the duties.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I also register my protest against these high duties, and against new items such as this being introduced at this hour.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

– Although this item does not affect my constituency, I happened, at the time the Massy Greene tariff was before Parliament, to take an interest in the subject, and was appealed to by the manufacturers of these chalks to lend them my support. This is an allAustralian material equal to any that can be imported. It also has the virtue of being cheaper that the foreign article.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

.- I move -

That the following new item be added: - “240. By adding to sub-item (b) of item 240-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 240 (b) (1) Electrical insulating sheets, being sheets composed of asbestos and cement or similar materials, ad val., British, 35 per cent.; intermediate, 40 per cent.; general, 45 per cent.

Tiles, n.e.i.; Sheets, n.e.i. and Roofing Slates composed of cement and asbestos or of similar materials; Articles, n.e.i., composed wholly or in chief value of cement and asbestos, including articles of reinforced cement, ad val., British, 25 per cent.; intermediate, 30 per cent.; general, 35 per cent.’ “.

The amendment imposes an increased duty of 10 per cent. on electrical insulating sheets, composed of asbestos and cement, or of similar materials. This action has been taken in accordance with a recommendation by the Tariff Board.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– This item does not appear in the schedule, and I object to it being brought down at this extraordinary hour by the Minister. I have here a long statement with regard to tiles.

Mr Forde:

– The item has nothing to do with roofing tiles.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT; UAP from 1931

– I am aware of that, but it has a lot to do with tiles that are used for kitchens. I protest against this item, because it excludes almost all tiles excepting those with the limited number of patterns manufactured in Australia. The better class of tile which although not made here, is in great demand, should not be excluded. I realize that it is useless to protest in this chamber, but in another place I hope that an alteration will be made.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the following new item be added: - “ 259. By adding the following to item 250:-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931- 259. Roofing Slates n.e.i., ad val., British, 40 per cent.; intermediate, 50 per cent. ; general, 00 per cent.’ “.

This amendment is in accordance with a recommendation recently made by the Tariff Board after an exhaustive inquiry into the slate industry.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– The natural protection to this industry is considerable. Roofing slates are heavy, and the freight on them, in the case of large shipments, amounts to practically one-half the value of the slates, while in the case of small shipments the freight is often equal to the value of the slates. It will be seen that the protection proposed is over 100 per cent. Moreover, as the various State Governments have given preference to Australian products, government architects have varied their specifications to permit of the odd sizes of slates made in New South Wales being used in government buildings, thus enabling large quantities of the local product to be utilized. One company interested in roofing slates has stated that with the present duty and the existing production costs, it could sell slates at a figure very much below that of the imported article, and still make a profit of 20 per cent.

Mr Forde:

– What is the name of the company?

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– I am prepared to give the Minister the name if necessary. I protest against the duty, because I believe that the natural protection to this industry is sufficient.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I also protest against this new item being introduced when the minds of honorable members are not clear for want of sleep.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the following new item be added: - “31.0. By adding the following to item 316:-

And on and after the 9th October, 1931 - 316. Imitation Reconstructed and Synthetic Precious Stones and Pearls, undrilled and unset; Cultured Pearls, unset,ad val., British, free; intermediate, free; general, 20 per cent.’ “.

The amendment is introduced for the purpose of simplifying the departmental classification. The inclusion of the word “ undrilled “ is rendered necessary by an amendment already made to item 309 (b), by which the word “drilled” was added.

Proposed new item agreed to.

Preliminary matter agreed to.

Amendments to prefatory notes agreed to.

Resolution reported.

Motion (by Mr. Forde) proposed -

That the resolution be recommitted for the reconsideration of items 78 and 180.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

– I desire the recommittal also of item 91.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade, and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– The item referred to by the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) deals with seeds of various kinds. A deputation waited on me, and the honorable member for Balaclava also interviewed me in regard to this matter. I have gone into the question with the officers of the department, but am not yet in a position to make a definite recommendation. I, therefore, cannot agree to the honorable member’s request for a recommittal of the item.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

. - by leave - Many of the seed merchants throughout Australia who have written to the Minister about this matter are perturbed because they have not received a reply. Seed known as rape has been included in item 91 b, which covers canary seed , and food for birds. The merchants claim that that was due to an inadvertence, and that an alteration could easily be made.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon Norman Makin:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– The commodity mentioned by the honorable member for Balaclava (Mr. White) is not contained in any item in the schedule before us. The honorable member is not empowered to move a new item ; he may only amend an item that is actually in the schedule.

Motion agreed to.

In Committee of Ways and Means (Recommittal) :

Division IV. - Agricultural Products. and Groceries.

Item 78- “On and after the 16th May, 1931 -

  1. Peanuts, unshelled, per lb. - British, 2d.; intermediate, 3d.; general, 4d.”
Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by inserting in lieu of sub-item (f), inserted on the 15th May. 1931, the following sub-item: -

By omitting the whole of sub-item (f) and inserting in its stead the following subitem : - “(f) Peanuts, per lb. - British, 2d.; inter mediate, 3d.; general. 4d.

And on and after the 16th May, 1931 -

Peanuts, unshelled, per lb. - British. 2d.; intermediate, 3d.; general, 4d.”

This amendment is of a formal nature. It does not alter either the wording or the rates under the item. The introduction to the item included the word “ omitted “ instead of the word “ adding.” The amendment will remedy the error.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Division 6. - Metals and Machinery

Item 180-

By omitting the whole of sub-item (g) (twice occurring) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item: - “ And on and after the 2nd October, 1931 -

Storage batteries and parts thereof, viz. : -

1 ) Storage batteries for wireless receiving sets and storage batteries suitable for use in motor cars otherwise than for propulsion purposes, ad val., British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 57½ per cent.; general, 70 per cent.;

Composition parts including containers for storage batteries for wireless receiving sets and for storage batteries suitable for use in motor cars otherwise than for propulsion purposes, per lb., British, 2d.; intermediate, 2¼d. ; general, 2½d.: and ad val., British, 40 per cent. ; intermediate, 47½ per cent.; general, 00 per cent.”

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the item be amended by inserting, in lieu of sub-item (g), inserted on the 1st October, 1931, the following sub-item: -

By omitting the whole of sub-item (g) (twice occurring) and inserting in its stead the following sub-item : - “(g) Storage batteries suitable for use in motor cars otherwise than for propulsion purposes, ad val., British, 40 per cent.; intermediate, 47½ per cent.; general,60 per cent.

And on and after the 2nd October, 1931 -

Storage batteries and parts thereof, viz: -

Storage batteries for wireless receiving sets and storage batteries suitable for use in motor cars otherwise than for propulsion purposes, ad val., British, 50 per cent.; intermediate, 57½ per cent. ; general, 70 per cent. ;

Composition parts including containers for storage batteries for wireless receiving sets and for storage batteries suitable for use in motor cars otherwise than for propulsion purposes, perlb., British, 2d.;’ intermediate, 2¼d.; general, 2-). ; and ad val., British, 40 per cent.; intermediate, 474 per cent. ; general, 00 per cent.”

This amendment is formal. It merely alters the introductory wording to the item, and does not alter the rates.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– These duties are extortionate, and are defeating the objects for which they were imposed. All overseas batteries are being excluded; only local batteries can be sold, and many of them are unsuitable. Gramophone manufacturers have asked the department to permit them to continue to import the Columbia batteries, which they had been using for many years. I am sure that an investigation would prove that the duties are not operating satisfactorily, and that the goods being produced locally do not satisfy the requirements of the public. The Tariff Board has reported against the imposition of these rates, and I suggest that in the Senate the item should be amended to conform to the board’s recommendation.

Amendment agreed to.

Item, as amended, agreed to.

Resolution reported; Standing Orders suspended and resolution adopted.

page 610

CUSTOMS TARIFF (1931)

Ordered -

That Mr.Forde and Mr. Scullin do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolutions.

Bill brought up by Mr. Forde, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

The measure follows the usual lines of a Tariff Bill. It imposes the duties set out in the schedule which has just been dealt with by this House, as from the 27th March, 1931, the date on which the consolidated resolution was introduced. Clause 5 validates the collection of duty in accordance with the various resolutions which have been tabled since November, 1929.

Clause 7 contains the usual provision concerning rates which are higher in the existing tariff, 1921-30, than in any of the resolutions. In such cases the higher rates are collected on deposit, and eventually paid into revenue, no refunds being allowed. Clauses 8 and 9 arc formal, dealing with existing trade agreements and deferred duties.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from committee without amendment or debate; report adopted.

Third Reading

Motion (by Mr. Forde) proposed -

That the bill be now read a third time.

Mr SCULLIN:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Yarra · ALP

– I am very pleased with the expedition which has been . shown in the later portion of the discussion of the tariff schedule. 1 hope that the bill now before the House will have an equally favorable passage through the Senate. As Leader of the Government I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Forde) on the manner in which he has handled the long and complicated tariff schedule. I have never known a Minister show greater application and skill in steering a tariff measure through Parliament.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

– However our opinions may differ in regard to the merits of the tariff schedule, honorable members on both sides are ready to give liberal praise to the Minister for Trade and Customs for the manner in which he has handled it. He has shown remarkable industry and considerable capacity, and has proved his fitness to do thoroughly and successfully a very intricate task. I heartily congratulate him upon the result of his endeavours.

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

.- I desire to associate myself with the remarks of the Prime Minister and the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton). Representing a large industrial electorate, I have had to trouble the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Forde) in regard to scores of items, and I take this opportunity to express my sincere appreciation of the industry he has displayed, and the earnestness with which he has discharged a heavy responsibility. I am sure that I shall express the views of all honorable members also if I testify to the able and zealous assistance rendered., not only to the Minister, but to all of us by the officers of the Trade and Customs Department. They have worked night and day for many months, and I have received from them, as I am sure other honorable members have, a great deal of help and advice.

Mr HAWKER:
Wakefield

– I have not seen other Ministers for Trade and Customs handle tariff schedules in Parliament, but. I readily admit the great industry which this young priest of high protection, the present Minister, has shown in piloting through the committee a tariff of abominations. He resorted to every parliamentary device, disciplined his supporters, and did not hesitate at times to use almost brute force to overcome the opposition of a tired committee. The Minister undoubtedly showed great application and considerable good temper, and as an opponent of the duties he proposed, I gladly acknowledge the ability with which he performed his allotted task.

Mr GABB:
Angas

.- I, too, give to the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Forde) full credit for his industry and patience, but I do not share his optimism as to. the effects which the increased duties will have. I cannot believe that the tariff will put an end to depression, unemployment, and gloom. The schedule is about to leave this chamber for the time being, but I hope that it will be returned by the Senate with requests for the removal of many of the anomalies and burdensome duties.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Warringah

– I extend to the Ministermy congratulations upon the way in which he has handled the tariff schedule. I fought many of the items vigorously and consistently, but I have not reflected upon the Minister’s character or questioned his probity in any way. If ever I seemed to do so, I assure the Minister that that was not my intention. I compliment him upon the industry and skill he has displayed throughout a long and wearying debate, and upon the patience and courtesy which lie has extended to honorable members. He did exceedingly well.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The party to which I belong dissents entirely from the general fiscal principles enunciated by the Minister for Trade and Customs, and embodied in the tariff schedule. Wo do not hold out any hope that the backyard industries which have been established and have flourished since the tariff policy of this Government was put into operation will continue after a change of Government has taken place. We have no quarrel whatever with regard to the granting of reasonable protection’ to the natural industries of Australia. Simply because some persons say that they can manufacture certain goods in Australia we do not believe that they should be granted all the protection that they desire. We think it necessary that all manufacturing should be done on a commercial basis. We do not stand for the absurd duties which have been included in this schedule. We believe that after a new government is returned - an event which I am sure will occur before very long - there will be a. considerable reduction in the number of these recently established backyard and exotic industries.

Mr LATHAM:
Kooyong

.I anticipate that the House will have another opportunity to deal with a number of the items in this schedule in respect of which some important changes may be made, and I shall reserve my observations until that event, happens.

Mr WHITE:
Balaclava

.I do not know that there was any need to throw bouquets at the Minister, but the Prime Minister set the example. He said that this was the most stupendous tariff schedule that a Minister had ever had to handle in this House. It is my first experience of a general tariff debate, and it leads me to say that I believe that if this business had been handled by a commission of business men charged with the duty of determining what duties should be imposed, the work would have been done more expeditiously and equitably. The discussion in this House has involved the printing of reams of paper in Hansard, and has caused many honorable members to discuss numerous subjects about which they knew very “little. No doubt from the point of view of his party, the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Forde) has been a most valuable member, and has clone his work most efficiently. Personally I have had every courtesy shown to me.

Mr PROWSE:
Forrest

.I have been silent for a considerable time, but I cannot congratulate the Government in any sense upon having succeeded in securing the consent of a majority of honorable members to the passage of this bill. The blood of this tariff will be on the hands of the Government. The schedule has been bludgeoned through the House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member is not in order in using that expression.

Mr PROWSE:

– If it is unparliamentary, I withdraw it and apologize. Perhaps it would be plainer to say that this bill has been forced through because it gives expression to the policy of the Government. But that policy has been carried out against the advice of the best economic and scientific brains in this country. The proof of the pudding is in the eating of it. The principal industries of this country are languishing and perishing. Secretariats of competent experts have advised the Government on ways and means of insuring equality of sacrifice by all sections of the community in this time of depression, but the Government has not accepted the advice tendered to it, nor has it adopted a policy which has involved all sections of the community in equal sacrifices. It has heaped burdens on one section of the people, but has refused to allow another section to suffer any hardships. The members of the Government have’ talked a lot about the primary producers, and have shed crocodile tears in sympathy with them; yet this tariff must inevitably lay heavy burdens upon these very people. Not one item of the tariff schedule has been passed with my blessing. I believe that these duties will be a curse to the country. I hope that the members of another place will make such drastic alterations to the schedule that it may be possible to remedy some of the evils that the Government has created.

In consequence of this tariff, monopolies have been built up in some industries, while other industries have been allowed to languish, with the result that there is extensive unemployment throughout the Commonwealth. This, I am persuaded, is the effect of this tariff. BecauseI believe that no good whatever can follow from the passage of this bill, 1 cannot congratulate the Government upon having forced it through the House. I have remained silent during the discussion of most of the tariff items because of the futility of arguing against the Government majority; but I hope that the members of another place will speak in no uncertain voice, and that they will do something to remedy the present state of affairs.

Mr FORDE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · Capricornia · ALP

, -I thank the Prime Minister and honorable members on both sides of the chamber for the congratulatory remarks they have made regarding my work in piloting this bill through this House. It is pleasing and encouraging to know that although at times feeling runs high during a debate, honorable members of all parties can show friendly sentiment towards a Minister, notwithstanding that, on occasions, be has bad to reply sharply to statements that have been made. I am sincerely grateful for what has been said, and I reciprocate their sentiments. I wish to place on record my appreciation of the wonderfully good work that has been done by the officers of the Trade and Customs Department in preparing this schedule, and in making the research that has been necessary in connexion with many of the items. The work has been stupendous, and has placed a greatly increased burden upon a very efficient band of officers. 1 am satisfied that it would not be possible to find a more efficient staff anywhere in the world, and I have great pleasure in recording my appreciation of their services.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a third time.

page 613

HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Mr. Scullin) agreed to -

That the House at its rising adjourn until 2. 30 p.m. this day.

House adjourned at 4.10 a.m.(Friday).

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 8 October 1931, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1931/19311008_reps_12_132/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant