House of Representatives
2 March 1927

10th Parliament · 1st Session



The House of Representatives, on the 13th August, 1926, adjourned until a day and an hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker, and notified by him to each honorable member.

The House met at 3 p.m., pursuant to such notification.

Mr. Speaker (Hon. Sir Littleton Groom) took the chair, and read prayers.

page 20

NEW MEM BER

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have to announce chat during the adjournment I received from Mr. W. G. Mahony a letter resigning his seat as member for the electoral division of Dalley. On the 1st of February last I issued a writ for the election of a member to serve for the electoral division of Dalley in the State of New South Wales. I have received a return to such writ, and by the endorsement thereon it would appear that Edward Granville Theodore has been elected in pursuance of that writ.

Mr. THEODORE made and subscribed the oath of allegiance.

page 20

DEATH OF HON. W. G. SPENCE

Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for Home Affairs · Flinders · NAT

– I regret to have to inform the House that during the recess there occurred the death of Mr. William Guthrie Spence, formerly a member of this House. I move -

That thisHouse expresses its deep regret at the death of the Honorable William Guthrie Spence, who was for many years a member of the House of Representatives, and for some time Postmaster-General of the Commonwealth; and extends its sympathy to the wife and family of the deceased gentleman.

Mr. Spence ceased to be a member of this House in 1919, but there are many still here who can recall his genial personality, and who learned of his death with feel ings of very sincere regret. He had reached the age of four score years at the time of his death, and had lived a life of great activity, and one ever directed towards the benefiting of his fellow man. I am sure that honorable members on all sides recognize him as one of the great pioneers of the Labour movement in this country. Many enjoying privileges to-day owe those privileges largely to his unwearying’ efforts and his devotion to their cause. Mr. Spence had a long parliamentary career, and rendered service to his country in the Parliament of New South Wales, as well as in the Commonwealth Parliament. He attained ‘ office as a Minister of the Crown, having been PostmasterGeneral of the Commonwealth, and for some time Vice-President of the Executive Council. He has passed away, but his record of service will not be forgotten, and all who knew him will hold his memory in kindly recollection. I desire to express our regret at his death, and also our sympathy with those whom he has left behind.

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I associate myself with the sentiments which have fallen from the lips of the right honorable the Prime Minister. The late Mr. W. G. Spence was well known throughout thiscountry, and was practically thepioneer of the Labour movement, industrial and political. He did magnificent work for his fellows which will ever be remembered with gratitude, and gave excellent service to his country as a member of this House and of the Now South Wales Parliament. He was constant in his parliamentary attendance, and carried out his duties faithfully and conscientiously. It will be, I hope, of some consolation to his aged widow and his family to know that he won the respect of every member of this House. Mr. Spence led a life which commended itself to the people of this country.

Question resolved in the affirmative, honorable members standing in their places.

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -

That Mr. Speaker he requested to transmit to Mrs. Spence the foregoing resolution, and a copy of the speeches delivered thereon.

page 21

ASSENT TO BILLS

Assent to the following bills of 1926 reported : -

Judiciary Bill.

Canned Fruit Export Control Bill.

Canned Fruit Export Charges Bill.

Invalid and Old-age Pensions Appropriation Bill.

War Pensions Appropriation Bill.

Invalid and Old-age Pensions Bill.

Customs Tariff Bill (No. 2).

Federal Aid Roads Bill.

War Service Homes Bill.

Maternity Allowance Bill.

Income Tax Bill.

Land Tax Act Assessment Bill.

Cotton Bounty Bill.

Appropriation Bill (1926-27).

page 21

PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE

Resig nation of Mr. Gregory - Mail Handling Appliances, Sydney.

Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt of a letter from Mr. Gregory resigning his position as a. member of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, and thanking honorable members for the confidence reposed in him as a member of the committee during the past thirteen years.

Mr. MACK AY brought up the report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, together with minutes of evidence, relating to the proposed installation of mail-handling appliances at the General Post Office, Sydney.

Ordered to be printed.

page 21

QUESTION

PRICE OF PETROL

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Last session the Prime Minister said that if the price of petrol continued to rise, he would see that the Commonwealth Oil Refineries Limited - with which company the Government is associated - imported petrol in bulk. Is he aware that the private companies have increased the price of petrol, and that the Commonwealth Oil Refineries Limited has increased its price in sympathy ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I have a clear recollection of what I said last session on this subject, and the Government is closely watching the position. Certain steps have already been taken by the Commonwealth Oil Refineries Limited - in which company the Government has a controlling interest - to try to prevent undue exploitation of the people.

page 21

QUESTION

WIRE NETTING SUPPLIES

Mr PROWSE:
FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Have all the States accepted the proposals of the Government for the supply of wire netting to settlers? If not, will the Minister state how the matter stands?

Mr PATERSON:
Minister for Markets and Migration · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · CP

– Three States- Victoria, Western Australia, and Queensland - have signified their acceptance of the wire-netting agreement.

page 21

QUESTION

WAR IN CHINA

Attitudeof Commonwealth Government

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Have any representations been made by the Imperial Government regarding the position in China; if so, will the Prime Minister disclose the nature of the negotiations, and this Government’s reply ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I understand that the honorable member asks whether the Commonwealth Government has been kept informed of the actions of the British Government in China. The answer to that question is “Yes.” But I think the honorable gentleman must see that it would be impossible for the Commonwealth Government to publish communications outlining the course that the British Government was proposing to take in an extraordinarily delicate and difficult situation.

page 21

QUESTION

MAIN ROADS AGREEMENT

Mr PERKINS:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Government of New South Wales yet signed the Main Roads Agreement; if not, what has been done with the money taken from the petrol users of New South Wales? Has it been ear-marked ? If New South Wales signs the agreement, can payments be made retrospective to the date of the passing of the act?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The Government of New South Wales has not yet signed the Main Roads Agreement, but within the last two or three weeks I received a communication from the Premier of that State asking what, in the eventof his signing the agreement, would be the position respecting roads that are now under construction and whether the money would be available to New South Wales for the present financial year.

page 22

QUESTION

PROPOSED DISARMAMENT CONFERENCE

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Has the British Government communicated with this Government respecting the proposed disarmament conference; if so, what is the attitude of this Government with regard to national disarmament?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I presume that the honorable member is referring to President Coolidge’s proposal for a Naval Disarmament Conference?

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– That is so.

Mr BRUCE:

– The Commonwealth Government has the greatest sympathy with President Coolidge’s proposals, and we have communicated to that effect with the British Government. The Commonwealth Government entirely endorses the British note indicating that Government’s preparedness to be represented on such a conference.

page 22

QUESTION

DISPOSAL OF H.M.A.S. SYDNEY

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Government come to any decision respecting the proposed scrapping of H.M.A.S. Sydney? I have in mind the suggestion that this ship might be made a national relic, andbe utilized as the parent ship to the Royal Australian Navy,in place of H.M.A.S. Penguin.

Mr MARR:
Honorary Minister · PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The matter is now receiving the consideration of the Government, and I hope to be able within a few days to make a suitable reply.

page 22

QUESTION

CANBERRA BUILDING COSTS

Mr BLAKELEY:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– In view of the necessity for providing accommodation at Canberra for civil servants and other residents, and of the excessive costs of building there, will the Prime Minister take steps to see that those costs are reduced by at least 25 per cent.?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I am sure that the honorable member will appreciate the great difficulty attending building operations in the establishment of a new centre in which a large number of people is rapidly being absorbed. The most recent information which the Government has received is that the building costs at Canberra are approximately 20 per cent. higher than those ruling at Melbourne. There is no action which the Government can take at present to achieve the object of the honorable member - the reduction of the cost of building by 25 per cent.

page 22

QUESTION

TOMATOES

Mr D CAMERON:
BRISBANE. QLD · NAT

– Has the Minister yet decided to his own satisfaction whether the tomato is a fruit or a vegetable ?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– This very complicated matter has had the grave attention of myself and the officers of my department. We were unable to arrive at any definite conclusion, and referred the matter to the Crown Law authorities, who also have a doubt. The only course now is to bring the matter before Parliament, so that it may decide the issue.

page 22

QUESTION

FORTY-FOUR HOUR WEEK

Mr CHARLTON:

– In view of the Prime Minister’s statement, on 20th May last - Hansard, page 2166 - that the Government had come to the decision that the only way to deal with the question of hours was to refer it to the Arbitration Court, will the Government accept the recent decision of that court as a direction in favour of a 44-hour week in industries coming under Commonwealth control ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I have stated on many occasions that all citizens must obey the awards or decisions of properly constituted courts. That obligation is equally binding upon the Commonwealth Government.

Mr DUNCAN-HUGHES:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Will the Attorney-General have distributed to honorable members copies of the judgments of the judges of the Arbitration Court in the case relating to hours of work?

Mr LATHAM:
Attorney-General · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · NAT

– I am making arrangements for the distribution to all honorable members of printed copies of the judgments as soon as they are available.

page 22

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH SHIPPING LINE

Mr MANNING:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Prime Minister state whether the Government has arrived at any decision in regard to the continuance or discontinuance of the Commonwealth Shipping Line?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– A very exhaustive inquiry into the affairs of the Commonwealth Shipping Line has been made by the Public Accounts Committee, and the Government is awaiting the presentation of its report to Parliament before com- ing to any decision in regard to the future of the Line.

Mr MANNING:

– Will the Prime Minister request the Finance Committee to make its report to this House in time, if possible, for the matter to be dealt with this session ?

Mr BRUCE:

– I have no knowledge as to when the Public Accounts Committee can conveniently present its report, but I shall ask the chairman if anything can be done to meet the honorable member’s wishes.

page 23

QUESTION

AMALGAMATED WIRELESS LIMITED

Mr BRENNAN:
BATMAN, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– During the deplored absence of the Prime Minister from the Commonwealth, Amalgamated Wireless Limited added considerably to its long series of evasions and prevarications in connexion with its agreement with the Commonwealth for the establishment of wireless communication between Great Britain and Australia. To-day, the 2nd March, was the latest date fixed by the representative of the company for the opening of a direct wireless service between the two countries. Will the Prime Minister inform the House whether that service has been established yet? If it has not, how does the Government propose to treat these repeated breaches of agreement, or will it do nothing at all ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– It is very undesirable that accusations and charges against any company or individual should be made the preamble to a question. The honorable member must be aware that exhaustive tests with beam wireless are being carried out; they have proved successful to a gratifying degree, and justify the decision of this Parliament to substitute the beam station for the high power station which it had previously sanctioned. It is hoped that the beam station will be operating commercially at a very early date, and give a service at least as satisfactory as that between the United Kingdom and Canada.

page 23

QUESTION

KYOGLE TO SOUTH BRISBANE RAILWAY

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The railway which is being constructed between Kyogle and South Brisbane, in accordance with an agreement to which the Commonwealth and the States of New South Wales and Queensland are parties, cannot operate until a bridge over the Clarence River has been built. The Government of New South Wales has promised on more than one occasion that that bridge will be ready as soon as it is required for the railway. Will the Prime. Minister inquire of that Government as to when, if ever, it proposes to honour its definite undertaking ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I have received no communication as to when the bridge over the Clarence River, which is an essential feature of railway connexion between South Brisbane and Kyogle, will be completed. I shall consider the honorable member’s suggestion that the Government shall communicate with the Government of New South Wales ; though scarcely in the language which he has employed.

page 23

QUESTION

PHOSPHATES COMMISSION

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Can the Prime Minister say whether any definite decision has been made as to the location of the central office of the Phosphates Commission ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I am glad to be able to say that the proposal for the removal of the commission’s office to New Zealand has been abandoned. The headquarters of the commission will continue to be in Australia.

page 23

IMPORTED TIMBER AT CANBERRA

Mr JACKSON:
BASS, TASMANIA

– In this morning’s newspapers the following telegram appeared : -

page 23

IMPORTED TIMBER

Hobart. - Tuesday. - A report has reached here that the Federal Government is using 2,000,000 feet of imported weatherboards and 1,000,000 feet of floorings in the construction of houses at Canberra. This is claimed to be a decided setback to the Australian timber industry. The Federal Arbitration Court compels high wages and good conditions to be given, and these prevent local timber merchants being able to compete with importers. It is claimed that it is unfair for the Commonwealth to deal in an outside market.

Can the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories say whether the statements contained in that telegram are correct?

Mr MARR:
NAT

– I shall have inquiries made and furnish the honorable member with a reply as soon as possible.

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is it a fact that the shingles and foreign timbers imported into Canberra have proved faulty ‘(

Mr MARR:

– I shall make inquiries into that allegation and furnish an answer to the honorable member later.

page 24

QUESTION

IMPORTATION OF BUTTER

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Minister for Trade and Customs come to any decision regarding the request made by the Australian Dairy Council and the Queensland Dairy Council that the duty on imported butter should be increased to 6d. per lb. in order to protect Australian producers of that commodity against foreign competition ?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– Replying to the honorable member’s question, and to several questons on this subject asked during the earlier part of the session, particularly by the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. R. Green) - having received in Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane deputation’s representing the butter producers, 1 referred the matter to the Tariff Board last week for investigation and report.

page 24

QUESTION

THE NEW HEBRIDES

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– Prior to the Prime Minister’s departure for London, I suggested that he should ask the Imperial Government to inquire into the shocking social conditions incidental to the condominium in the New Hebrides. Can the Prime Minister say what action, it any, has been taken in regard to this matter ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– This subject was fully discussed at the Imperial Conference by the representatives of Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand. Negotiations were opened with the French Government with a view to the partition of the islands, or some other solution of the present unsatisfactory state of affairs. After an exhaustive examination of the problem, certain steps were taken which I hope to be able to communicate to the House at an early date.

Mr. BRUCE IN CANADA.

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– During the Prime Minister’s trip through Canada he offered certain criticisms which were offensive to the Dominion Prime Minister, Mr. Mackenzie King, who suggested that visiting politicians should mind their own business and not interfere in the politics of another dominion. Will the Prime Minister say what were the remarks which caused offence, and whether he has tendered any apology to Mr. Mackenzie King?

Mr BRUCE:

– I cannot now repeat the words 1 used; but 1 said nothing in Canada to which exception could be taken unless it was misrepresented in some way.

page 24

QUESTION

SOCIAL CONDITIONS OF FIJI NATIVES

Mr ANSTEY:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

– Will the Prime Minister inform the House whether the social conditions of the natives of Fiji were exhaustively examined by the Imperial Conference when the conditions of the native races of the New Hebrides were under consideration?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– In reply to the honorable member - whom we are all extremely glad to see back in this House-

Mr Anstey:

– Honorable members are no more pleased to see me than I am to be able to see them.

Mr BRUCE:

– Labour conditions in Fiji were not considered at the Imperial Conference.

page 24

QUESTION

ROAD WORKS IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– It was reported in Western Australia a few weeks ago that large numbers of workmen had been sent into different districts without proper equipment to do road work under the day-labour system. The Minister for Works in that State said that the works ware being carried out under the agreement between the Commonwealth and State Governments. Will the Minister state whether the work is being financed by the Commonwealth Government?

Mr HILL:
Minister for Works and Railways · ECHUCA, VICTORIA · CP

– I understand that the works referred to are being carried out with money supplied by the Commonwealth and State Governments.

page 24

QUESTION

TRIAL WITHOUT JURY

Mr COLEMAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is it a fact, as stated in the press, that trial by jury has been abolished in civil cases in the Federal Capital area? In view of the general public indignation at this inno- vation, will the Government consider a request to revert to the usual procedure?

Mr LATHAM:
NAT

– An Ordinance was passed on the 21st January last providing that all civil cases tried before a district court in the Federal Territory should be tried without a jury. No representations on the matter have been received from the residents of Canberra, but, if such representations are made, full consideration will be given to them.

page 25

QUESTION

TOBACCO-GROWING INDUSTRY

Report of Tariff Board

Mr THOMPSON:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– When will the report of the Tariff Board on the tobaccogrowing industry be presented to Parliament?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The report referred to has not been received by me, but I expect to receive it at an early date. My honorable friend will readily see that, after it has been received, it must be considered by the Government before it can be presented to Parliament.

page 25

QUESTION

H.M.S. RENOWN

Call at Port Adelaide.

Mr YATES:
ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Has the Prime Minister received a reply from the Imperial authorities to the request of the residents of Adelaide that H.M.S.Renown should call at Port Adelaide?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– A cablegram has just been received, and the Government is now considering whether anything can be done to meet the wishes of the people of Adelaide. The Government is very desirous of meeting those wishes, and, if possible, the necessary arrangements will be made.

page 25

QUESTION

NEW TARIFF SCHEDULE

Mr GREGORY:

– Shortly before the adjournment of Parliament a tariff schedule was laid upon the table of the House. It was not discussed, and, according to the newspapers, there is little likelihood of its being discussed before Parliament again adjourns. I should like to be informed whether it is the intention of the Government, recognizing that the high duties have increased the cost of production, to withdraw the schedule for the time being ?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I cannot agree with the sentiment expressed in the concluding part of the honorable member’s question. For his information I can say that I have no knowledge as to when the schedule will be discussed; but, from my point of view, the sooner the better.

page 25

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH HOUSING SCHEME

Mr BLAKELEY:

– Can the Prime Minister inform the House when the Government will inaugurate the Commonwealth housing scheme, and whether the date of inauguration, when it has been determined, will apply to Canberra ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– Obviously the proposed housing scheme cannot be adopted without legislation . by this House, and I am not able at this moment to say when such legislation will be introduced.

page 25

QUESTION

TRADE AND MARKETING CONDITIONS

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I wish to ask the honorable member for Macquarie (Mr. Manning), who was requested by the Government to inquire into trade and marketing conditions while abroad, whether he was rightly reported from Western Australia as saying that 30 per cent. of Australian apples should not have left Australia ?

Mr SPEAKER (Hon Sir Littleton Groom:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

– The honorable member is entitled to ask questions of private members only in relation to “ any bill, motion, or other public matter connected with the business on the notice-paper, of which such members may have charge.”

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I understood that the honorable member had presented a report to the House.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I am not aware that he has done so yet.

Later -

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– Has the Minister for Trade and Customs observed the statement made by the honorable member for Macquarie that 30 per cent. of the apples exported from Tasmania last year should not have left the country ; if so, can he inform honorable members whether the regulations which permitted their export have been suspended or revised ?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I noticed the remarks of the honorable member for Macquarie; but, so far as I know, the whole of the apples exported from Tasmania last year were exported in accordance with regulations which, I am sure, have the approval of both the honorable member for Macquarie and the honorable member for Wannon.

page 26

QUESTION

RED HILL TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Mr LACEY:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– In view of the prevalence of unemployment in the northern part of South Australia, and the distress arising therefrom, will the Minister for Works and Railways take steps to expedite the construction of the Red Hill to Port Augusta railway?

Mr HILL:
CP

– The survey has been completed and I hope, if time permits, to bring forward a bill this session to authorize the construction of a railway.

page 26

QUESTION

CENSORSHIP OF NEWSPAPER PICTURES

Mr YATES:

– Has the Minister for Trade and Customs the same power of censorship over the illustrations in Australian newspapers that he has over picture films?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The power of censorship exists only in regard to importations; it does not apply to anything printed in Australia.

page 26

QUESTION

COPYRIGHT LAW

Mr BLAKELEY:

– Is the Prime Minister aware that the Copyrights Association apparently has copyright privileges over the whole of the sheet music which comes into Australia? Is he aware of the extraordinary demands made by the association upon all public users of music, including the management of theatres, picture halls, wireless broadcasting companies, and the like? Wall he give sympathetic consideration to the proposal to review the copyright law to relieve those concerned of at least part of the burden imposed upon them by the association?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The whole subject of copyright law is extraordinarily difficult and complex. Because of the number of international conventions with regard to copyrights, it cannot be dealt with by an alteration of our law without possibly very serious results to Australian citizens who desire copyright privileges in other countries. Last year a conference of many of the parties interested was held, and we were hopeful that a fair and reasonable arrangement had been reached. If the honorable member will submit to me specific instances of the kind to which he has referred, I shall be glad to have them investigated. It is not possible without great difficulty to deal with the matter by legislation.

page 26

QUESTION

SIR GEORGE BUCHANAN’S REPORTS

Mr FENTON:

– Has the Prime Minister yet received the reports of Sir George Buchanan on the ports of Australia, and particularly that dealing with the outer ports? If so; will be make them available to honorable members?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– One report by Sir George Buchanan has been received and published. A second report has also been received. I am not able to say at the moment whether it has been published, but, if not, there should be no difficulty in issuing it almost immediately.

page 26

QUESTION

UNDERGROUND TELEPHONE WIRES

Sydney -New castle Line - Adelaide System.

Mr WATKINS:

– Will the PostmasterGeneral please inform me what stage has been reached in the negotiations for installing underground telephone wires between Sydney and Newcastle? For the last three or four years provision has been made on the Estimates for this work.

Mr GIBSON:
Postmaster-General · CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA · CP

– I cannot say how far the negotiations have gone, but arrangements have been made to operate the carrier wave system between’ Newcastle and Sydney, and that has overcome the congestion that existed on the line forso long.

Mr YATES:

– Is the PostmasterGeneral aware that 4x4 concrete manholes which were put into the underground telephone conduits that were installed in Adelaide within the last twelve or eighteen months are now being blown up and 8x8 manholes put in ? Will he ascertain who was responsible for the small manholes being put in in the first place ? Will he see that his engineers properly inform themselves of the requirements of the various systems upon which they are working so that the Commonwealth shall not be put to such heavy and unnecessary expense as has been incurred in this instance ?

Mr GIBSON:

– I shall have full inquiries made.

page 27

QUESTION

WINE BOUNTY

Mr PARSONS:
ANGAS, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Before asking the Minister for Trade and Customs the questions that stand in my name on the notice-paper respecting the wine bounty, I wish to make a personal explanation. I gave notice of the questions on the 12th August last, expecting to get a reply to them’ on the following day. More than six months have since passed, and the reply to numbers 4, 5 and 10 is still anxiously awaited by many of my constituents. The questions arc as follow : -

  1. What is the amount paid in bounty on the wine exported to date?
  2. What is the estimated amount of the Excise paid on the spirit content of such wine ?
  3. Will the wine made from the vintage of 1927 be sufficiently matured to obtain the bounty,
  4. Have representations been made by representatives of growers for an early settlement of the question?
  5. Have representations been made by the Australian Dried Fruits Association urging the continuation of the bounty, and also for an early decision ?
  6. Is it a fact that growers of all classes of grapes have received increased prices for grapes owing to the operation of the bounty?
  7. What amount of assistance was given to the growers of doradillo grapes prior to the operation of the Export Bounty Act?
  8. What was the amount of the advances to growers of currants and gordos?
  9. Has the Minister received information that a large quantity of currants and gordos were sold last year to distillers and wine makers, at profitable prices to the growers, thus relieving the acute position that had arisen in connexion with returns from currants and lexias overseas?
  10. In view of the unanimous opinion of growers, distillers, wine-makers, and exporters that an early decision is necessary to prevent the industry from falling into the dire straits it was in previous to the Export Bounty Act, will the Minister urge the Tariff Board to hasten the completion of their inquiries and the presentation of their report.
Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The replies are as follow : -

  1. £478,000.
  2. About £149,000.
  3. Provided the wine complies with all the requirements of the Department, and is exported, the answer is “ Yes.”
  4. Yes.
  5. Yes.
  6. Yes.
  7. £17,516.
  8. £42,000. In addition to this, £157,000 was advanced on sultanas, making a total of £199,000.
  9. The sale of a large quantity of currants and gordos to distilleries and wineries improved the position of the growers.
  10. The report of the Tariff Board has just been received, and is now being considered by the Government.

page 27

QUESTION

TELEGRAPH DELAYS

Sir JOHN GELLIBRAND:
DENISON, TASMANIA

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the condition of one of the submarine telegraph cables between the mainland and Tasmania, and the resulting delays in the despatch of messages?
  2. Will consideration be given towards improving the essential means of communication either by way of a cable of the “ loaded “ type, or by a wireless system?
Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The replies are:-

  1. Yes. Recently a fault developed on the west cable, but that has now been cleared and the condition of both cables is again normal.
  2. The Department has at present under review the question of increased facilities for communication between Tasmania and the mainland with a view to eliminating the delays to traffic which may sometimes occur, and providing for increased traffic in the future. Consideration is being given to both the alternatives mentioned in the question.

page 27

QUESTION

FINANCIAL YEAR

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Is it proposed to make any alteration in the Commonwealth’s financial year?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Treasurer · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– No alteration of the financial year of the Commonwealth is proposed.

page 27

QUESTION

SURVEY WORK IN PAPUA

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

  1. Does section 132 of the Real Property Act of Papua provide that the Registrar of Titles must at the beginning of each year publish in the Papuan Gazette a list of licensed surveyors qualified to survey in Papua?
  2. Are the authorities permitting survey work to be performed in Papua by men not gazetted as prescribed?
  3. Has the Government of Papua power to issue licences to persons to perform survey work dealing with the alienation and subdivision of land who have not passed the examination of the Federated Board of Surveyors of Australia and New Zealand?
Mr MARR:
NAT

– The answers are as follow : -

  1. Section 132 of the Real Property Ordinance 1913-1914, provides that the Registrar shall prepare and cause to he published before the end of February in each year, in the Gazette, a list containing the names and addresses of all surveyors licensed for the purposes of the Ordinance. 2 and 3.The information desired is being obtained.

page 28

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN COMMONWEALTH LINE OF STEAMERS

Sale of Vessels

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Have any Commonwealth steamers been gold since his statement on the 13th July last (Hansard, page 4036) ? If so, to whom (name and address), and what was the price paid for each?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The information is being obtained.

page 28

QUESTION

EXPORTS 1924-26

Primaryandsecondaryindustries

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What was the value of exports of secondary industries during the years 1924-25 and 1925-26?
  2. What classes of industry and manufacture in Australia were they composed of, specifying class of product and value for each year?
  3. What was the value of exports of secondary products the produce of other countries and re-exported during 1924-25 and 1925-26?
  4. What was the value of primary products exported during the some periods?
Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The information is being obtained.

page 28

QUESTION

WIRELESS BROADCASTING

Free Licences to Blind

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Will he give favorable consideration to the question of granting free wireless licences to the blind?

Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The amount retained by the Post Office for administrative purposes is 2s. 6d. per licence; the balance belongs to the broadcasting companies. To grant free licences to the blind would involve discrimination between many institutions and individuals equally deserving of assistance.

page 28

QUESTION

TARIFF

Relief for Iron, Steel, and Copper Products Industries

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. Is it true, as reported, that a request has been made before the Tariff Board, and supported by manufacturers and employees in the boot-making industry, forrelief from the heavy duties imposed on patent leather, glace kid, calf, and snowbuck, giving as a reason that these goods are not made in sufficient quantities and that the duties press heavily on the industry, which, it was stated, was already suffering severe depression?
  2. If true, will the Minister give reconsideration to the present heavy duties imposed on iron, steel, and copper products, the raw material of so many other manufacturers, so as to obviate similar depression in other industries?
Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The replies are as follow : -

  1. A request was made on the lines indicated, and admission of certain items at concessional tariff rates under by-law was sought. On the other hand, Australian manufacturers of such leathers contended that they were very largely able to supply what was required.
  2. The same conflict of interest as that referred to above is likely to arise in regard to iron, steel, and copper products, and each case can only be dealt with on its merits. Any application for tariff alteration or by-law concession that has been, or may be, made will be investigated and reported on by the Tariff Board and carefully considered by the Government.

page 28

QUESTION

TUBERCULOSIS

Spahlinger Treatment - Inquiry by Dr. E. W. Morris.

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Has his attention been drawn to a statement on the 12th January last (see Age of the 13th January) by Dr. E. W. Morris, whose term as medical inspector at Australia House expired in October, that he and amember of the staff of St. Thomas’s Hospital, London, had been deputed by the High Commissioner to visit Geneva and inquire into the Spahlinger treatment, and that they were so impressed with it that they recommended that Australia should be given the opportunity of investigating the process; further, that a draft contract, approved by both parties, was drawn up, but for some unaccountable reason the High Commissioner listened toa lay opinion in opposition to the professional opinion appointed to investigate?
  2. Will he make inquiries into this matter?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The replies are as follow: -

  1. Yes.
  2. A draft contract, prepared by Mr. Spahlinger, was forwarded to Australia for consideration. It arrived on the 5th July, 1922. Before full consideration had been given to the terms of this draft contract, an inquiry was made concerning Mr. Spahlinger’s readiness to supply sera and vaccines for experimental purposes. On the 23rd July a cabled reply was received to the inquiries referred to above; at the same time an intimation was forwarded by the High Commissioner that Mr. Spahlinger states, “he is not now prepared to further discuss the question of an agreement with Australia.” It is not correct to say that the draft contract was approved by both sides.

page 29

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the Commonwealth Public Service Arbitrator has recommended an increase of the rate of salary which would entitle an officer to claim allowance for children?
  2. What is the new rate proposed?
  3. What action does the Government propose taking in regard to the recommendation if made?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The replies are as follow: - 1 and 2. By Determinations Nos. 47 and 48 of 1926, the Public Service Arbitrator determined that an allowance of £13 in respect of each dependent child up to fourteen years of age be paid to officers in receipt of less than £600.

  1. The matter is receiving consideration.

page 29

QUESTION

DIVISIONAL RETURNING OFFICERS

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Was any allowance paid to the divisional returning officers for extra work performed in connexion with the recent referendum? If not, will he give favorable consideration to the question ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– No. The determination of this question is a matter for the Public Service Board, which, at the request of the Government, has on several occasions considered the representations which have been made on behalf of the divisional returning officers. The board has advised that the fact that divisional returning officers were required to work overtime in connexion with elections and referendums was definitely taken into consideration in determining their scale of pay, and that, in the circumstances, the board could not favorably consider any suggestion to pay a bonus.

page 29

QUESTION

RABBIT SKINS

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What was the value of rabbit skins exported from Australia during the past five years ?
  2. To what country have these skins been chiefly exported?
  3. Is it a fact that a request has been made to impose an export duty or embargo on their export, owing to the present high price of the raw material of the hat maker?
Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The answers are-

  1. £9,473,158. This covers rabbit and hare skins.
  2. United States of America and the United Kingdom.
  3. No such application is now before the department, nor can any record of one be traced.

page 29

QUESTION

CANBERRA

Public Service: Housing - Gas Supply - Valuation of Melbourne Homes - Allowances - Transfer - Secondary Education - Commemorative Stamp - Exhibition of Opals in National Museum.

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

With reference to the questions of the honorable member for Hunter on 14th June last (Hansard, page 3002) regarding the transfer of officers to Canberra, will the Prime Minister now state what action has been taken in regard to questions 1, 2, and 5 asked at that time?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers are- 1 and 5. Regulations submitted by the Public Service Board providing for allowances to officers compulsorily transferred to Canberra have been approved by the Executive Council.

  1. The Government has not yet received the final report from the Federal Capital Commission in regard to this matter, but its early submission has been called for by the responsible Minister, in order that an announcement may be made on the subject.
Mr ANSTEY:
through Mr. Lacey

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Whether the valuation placed on houses to be purchased by the Government from public servants about to be transferred to Canberra includes the gas stoves, bath-heater, and blinds ?
  2. If so, is it proposed to supply, in return, suitable blinds with the houses in Canberra?
  3. If not, is it intended to advise these officers before their transfer of the dimensions of the windows in the houses allotted to them at the Federal Capital, so that they may obtain the necessary blinds in Melbourne; and will the Government favorably consider the question of paying for them?
  4. When is it proposed to transfer the officers attached to the Federal Parliament to Canberra ?
  5. Has the Commission undertaken to provide the required houses ready for use for these officers by the time they are transferred ?
Mr BRUCE:

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are -

  1. The valuations include the gas stoves and the bath-heaters, but not the blinds.
  2. See answer to No. 1.
  3. The Federal Capital Commissionwill, upon application make available to the respective public servants concerned, particulars of the measurements of windows of houses at Canberra.. Arrangements will be made to take over, at a valuation, the blinds in the Melbourne homes of those public servants where the Government’s offer to acquire such homes is accepted.
  4. The officers of Parliament will be transferred to Canberra as soon as Parliament rises.
  5. Yes.
Mr BOWDEN:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories) upon notice -

  1. Have any arrangements been made for the provision of secondary education at Canberra?
  2. If no such arrangements have yet been made, what steps is it intended to take to provide this facility?
Mr MARR:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are -

  1. Yes. There is sufficient accommodation at Telopea Park school for 500 children. Four hundred and twenty-four pupils are enrolled in the Primary school, and 45 are doing the secondary course. The curriculum of the school provides a standard comparable in range of subjects with that provided at the best of the Government high schools in New South Wales, and the facilities for secondary education are at least as good as in any other community of similar size in Australia. The existing staff, which consists of trained teachers who have had experience in New South Wales high schools, is quite capable of taking pupils up to the leaving certificate or matriculation standard. It is proposed to extend the school to provide for an additional 500 children, and it is anticipated that the school organization will enable 200 students to be instructed in the higher’ subjects when the additional accommodation is provided. In the new premises, rooms are to be fitted up for science and domestic science work. There is a manual training room already in use in the existing premises. Other additional provision will be made immediately at Ainslie, and proposals are being considered, and will be advanced in due course, for the establishment of a high school at Blandfordia, to accommodate 300 pupils. Full facilities will be provided by the Commission for technical education. The question of the institution of a system of scholarships is receiving consideration. It is understood that various religious bodies are taking steps to provide facilities for secondary education. The Anglican Church authorities have already established a girls’ school.
  2. See answer to No. 1.
Mr BOWDEN:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

What arrangements have been made for the issue and sale of the proposed special stamp to commemorate the opening of Parliament at Canberra?

Mr GIBSON:
CP

– Arrangements have been completed whereby the public will be able to effect purchases of the commemorative stamp at any post office in the Commonwealth commencing 9th May, 1927.

Mr BLAKELEY:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

With the view of developing the opal fields of New South Wales, South Australia, and Queensland, and of making it possible for overseas visitors to examine our beautiful and rare opals, will he sympathetically consider the question of getting together a representative collection of opals for exhibition in the National Museum, at Canberra?

Mr BRUCE:

– This matter will receive consideration by the Government.

page 30

QUESTION

CANBERRA FUNCTIONS

Invitation to Members of Australian Federal Convention

Mr BOWDEN:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether it is possible to make such arrangements for the Canberra functions as will enable invitations to be issued to the surviving members of the Australian Federal Convention?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The question raised by the honorable member is being carefully considered by the Royal Visit Cabinet Committee.

page 30

QUESTION

ALLOWANCE AND CONTRACT POSTMASTERS

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Whether, in view of his statements on the 11th March last(Hansard, page 1529), the 25th March last(Hansard, page 2002), and the 8th Julylast(Hansard, page 3930) that the scale of payments to allowance postmasters was then under review, he is now in a position to give particulars of the revisedscale?

Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The matter is one entailing much detailed investigation, and the inquiries have, therefore, been necessarily protracted. I am hopeful that a decisionwillbe reached at no distant date.

page 31

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH GOVERNMENT LINE OF STEAMERS

Mr MARKS:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that of the Seagoing Staff of the Commonwealth Shipping Line there are two Commanders, three Chief Engineers, three Chief Stewards, and other officers and ratings, all of whom are receiving Australian rate of wages, but whose families and homes are situate in the United Kingdom?
  2. Is it a fact that the wages paid to these men amountsto considerately over £5,000 per annum ?
  3. Whether, having in view the Migration Policy of the Government to encourage the settling of families in the Commonwealth, it mightbe considered that a condition precedent to employment on the Seagoing Staff of the Line be residence in the Commonwealth of applicant and his family?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– This information is being obtained.

page 31

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH SHIPPING BOARD

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether, in view of the recent High Court’s decision respecting the Commonwealth Shipping Board, he will take action to amend the Act in order to extend the activities of that Board?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The matter is receiving consideration.

page 31

QUESTION

BANKRUPTCY ACT

Mr BOWDEN:

asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon notice -

  1. What is the present position in regard to the Bankruptcy Act?
  2. When does he anticipate that the Act will be proclaimed?
Mr LATHAM:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are: -

  1. Mr. A.G.Brown has been appointed to act as Inspector-General, and he is now engaged in the preparatory work which is necessary before arrangements can he made with the States to assume the bankruptcy jurisdiction which State Courts are now exercising. A short amending Bankruptcy Bill, making provision for the more effective administration of the Act, is being submitted to Parliament? 2; The date cannot yet be Axed, but the preparatory arrangements, including the drafting and printing of the Bankruptcy Regulations and forms and registers, are being expedited with a view to the proclamation of the commencement of the act as soon as possible.

page 31

QUESTION

CANADIAN PARLIAMENT

Commonwealth Representation at Jubilee Celebrations.

Mr BOWDEN:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Has any invitation been received for the Commonwealth Parliament to be represented at the jubilee celebrations of the Canadian Parliament?
  2. If so, what steps are being taken to have the Commonwealth represented?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are: -

  1. No.
  2. See answer to 1.

page 31

PAPERS

The following papers were presented: -

Audit Act- Finance, 1925-26- The Treasurer’s Statement of Receipts and Expenditure during the year ended 30th June, 1926, accompanied by the Report of the AuditorGeneral.

Electoral - Referendums - Statistical Returns in relation to the submission to the Electors of Proposed Laws for the alteration of the Constitution, entitled (1) “ Constitution Alteration (Industry ana Commerce) 1926 “ ; (2). ‘’ Constitution Alteration (Essential Services) 1926”; together with Summaries of Referendums, 1906-1926.

National Debt Sinking Fund Act - National Debt Commission - Third Annual Report, for year ended 30th June, 1926.

National Insurance -

Unemployment- Second Progress Report of the Royal Commission.

Destitute Allowances - Third Progress Report of the Royal Commission.

Public Service Act - Third Report on the Commonwealth Public Service by the Board of Commissioners.

Railways - Report, with Appendices, on Commonwealth Railways, 1925-26.

River Murray Waters Act - River Murray Commission - Report for year 1925-26

Ordered to be printed.

Commonwealth Bank Act - Commonwealth Bank of Australia - Aggregate Balance- sheet at 30th June, 1926; and Statement of the Liabilities and Assets of the Note Issue Department at 30th June, 1926; together with the Auditor-General’s Reports thereon.

Canberra - Report of Operations of Federal Capital Commission for Quarter ended - 30th June, 1926; 30th September, 1926; 31st December, 1926.

International LabourOrganization of the League of Nations -

Eighth Session, held at Geneva, 26th May to 5th June, 1926- Draft Convention and Recommendtaion adopted by the Conference.

Ninth Session, held at Geneva, 7th to 24th June, 1926- Draft Conventions and Recommendations adopted by the Conference.

League of Nations - Slavery Convention, signed at Geneva, 25th September, 1926.

Papuan Oil-fields - Reports from AngloPersian Oil Company for -

June, 1926; July, 1926; August, 1926.

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator -

No. 28 of 1928 - Australian Workers’ Union, and Amalgamated Postal Workers’ Union of Australia.

No. 29 of 1926-Commonwealth Public Service Clerical Association.

Audit Act -

London Account Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 186.

Naval Account Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 189.

Transfers of amounts approved by the Governor-General in Council -

Financial Year, 1925-26- Dated 1st December, 1926; dated 17th December, 1926.

Financial Year 1926-27- Dated 25th January, 1927.

Australian Imperial Force Canteens Funds’ Act - A uditor-Generol’s Report on the recounts of the Trustees for theyear 1925-26.

Beer Excise Act - Beer Excise Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 184.

Commerce (Trade Descriptions) Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 166.

Cotton Bounty Act - Cotton Bounty (Yarn) Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 151.

Customs Act -

Customs Regulations - Statutory Rules. 1926, No. 203.

Customs (Cinematograph Films) Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 119.

Proclamations prohibiting the Exportation (except under certain conditions) of -

Cinematograph Films (dated 9th September, 1926).

Opium, &c. (dated 20th November, 1926).

Deceased Soldiers’ Estates Act - Regulations -Statutory Rules 1926, No. 208.

Defence Act -

Civilian Staff Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 209

Financial and Allowance RegulationsStatutory Rules 1926, No. 211.

Munitions Supply Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 210.

Royal Military College Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 179.

Regulations Amended -

Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 120, 121, 139, 143, 144, 145, 148, 153, 162, 167, 168, 174.

Statutory Rules 1927, Nos. 5, 6, 7.

Royal Military College - Report for year 1925-26.

Defence Retirement Act - Regulations Repealed Statutory Rules 1926, No. 161.

Distillation Act - Distillation Regulations - Statutory Rules 1928, No. 206.

Electoral Act and Referendum (Constitution Alteration) Act -

Electoral and Referendum RegulationsStatutory Rules 1926, No. 201.

Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 113,117.

Electoral Act (Commonwealth) and Electoral Act (State of Victoria) - Amendment to Regulations relatingto Joint Electoral Rolls in the State of Victoria - Statutory Rules 1927, No. 13.

Entertainment Tax Assessment Act - Enterta inments Tax Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 187.

Export Guarantee Act - Return showing Assistance granted up to - 30th September, 1926 ; 31st December, 1926.

High Court Procedure Act - Rules of CourtRule re Sittings Dated 15th November, 1926.

Income Tax Assessment Act - Regulations Amended- Statutory Rules 1926, No. 191.

Inscribed Stock Act- Regulations Amended-

Statutory Rules 1926. No. 165.

Statutory Rules 1927, No. 4.

Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act - Invalid and Old-age Pensions Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 178.

Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act - Statement setting out particulars relating to approval given for the use of imported materials in the manufacture of products (Traction Engines) upon which bounty may be paid.

Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired at -

Melbourne, Victoria - For Postal purposes.

Onslow, Western Australia - For Customs purposes.

Perenjori, Western Australia - For Postal purposes.

Pithara, Western Australia - For Postal purposes.

Sandy Bay, Tasmania- For Postal purposes.

Sydenham, New South Wales - For Postal purposes.

Toowoomba, Queensland - For Defence purposes.

Urayarra, Federal Capital Territory - For Federal Capital purposes.

Willnughby, New South Wales- For Defence purposes.

Woodside, South Australia - For Defence purposes.

Yenda, New South Wales- For Postal purposes.

Maternity Allowance Act- Maternity Allowance Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 172.

Meteorology Act- Meteorological RegulationsStatutory Rules 1926, No. 204.

Nationality Act- Return for 1926.

Naval Defence Act -

Naval College Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 181.

Naval Establishments RegulationsStatutory Rules 1926, No. 197.

Naval Financial Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 198.

Naval Forces Regulations - Statutory Rules, 1926, No. 196.

Naval Reserve Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 199.

Naval Reserve (Seagoing) Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 207.

Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 112, 122, 123, 124, 126, 127, 154, 173, 180, 195.

New Guinea Act -

Ordinances of 1926 -

No. 18- Supply (No. 1) 1926-27.

No. 19- Supply (No. 2) 1926-27.

No. 20 - Appropriation (No. 2) 1925-26.

No. 21 - Mining.

No. 22 - Expropriation (No. 2).

No. 23- Supply (No. 3) 1926-27.

No. 24 - Uncontrolled Areas.

No. 25- Mining (No. 2).

No. 26- Supply (No. 4) 1926-27.

No. 27- Printers and Newspapers.

Ordinances of 1927 -

No. 1 - Land.

No. 2 - Police Force.

No. 3 - Claims by and against the Administration.

No. 4 - Appropriation (1926-27).

No. 5 - Mining.

Norfolk island Act - Ordinances of 1926 -

No. 6 - Executive Council.

No. 7 - Justices Validation.

Northern Territory’ Acceptance Act and Northern Territory ( Administration ) Act -

Crown Lands Ordinance 1925-26 - Regulations.

Ordinances of 1926 -

No. 21- Public Service (No. 2).

No. 22- Bank Holidays.

No. 23 - Birds Protection (No. 2).

No. 24 - Jury.

Ordinances of 1927 - No. 1 - Crown Lands.

Statement and Plan relative’ to resumption of an area reserved for the use and benefit of the inhabitants of the Town of Darwin.

Northern Territory Representation Act and Commonwealth Electoral Act -

Northern Territory Electoral Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 200.

Regulations Amended- Statutory Rules 1926, No. 170.

Papua and New Guinea Bounties Act - Papua and New Guinea Bounties Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 183.

Papua Act -

Infirm and Destitute Natives Account - Statement of Transactions of Trustees, 1925-26.

Ordinances of 1926 -

No. 3- Maintenance. Orders (Facilities for Enforcement).

No. 4 - Companies.

No.5 - Samarai Electric Light and Power.

No. 6 - Appropriation 1926-27.

No. 7 - Appropriation (No. 1) 1925- 26.

No. 8 - Mineral Oil and Coal.

No.9 - Superannuation.

No. 10 - Land.

Post and Telegraph Act - Regulations

Amended -

Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 115, 116, 141, 142, 146, 150, 157.

Statutory Rules 1927, No. 9.

Public Service Act-

List of Permanent Officers of the Commonwealth Service on 30th June, 1926.

Appointments- Department of -

Attorney-General - T. D. Leaper and G. F. Thomas.

Health - A. B. Lilley, E. MacKinnon, T. R. Pearce, C. Stanley, and D. D. Coutts.

Home and Territories - A. J. Higgs.

Postmaster-General’s Department - C. V. C. Chandler.

Works and Railways - G. A. Rittinger, G. Hastie, L. M. Jordan, P. R. Fray, J. A. Grant, W. W. E. Gray, E. Smith, and G. A. Rittinger.

Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 105, 108, 110, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 136, 137, 138, 147, 158, 160, 194.

Railways Act- By-laws Nos. 40, 41, 42.

Seat of Government Acceptance Act and Seat of Government (Administration) Act -

Ordinances of 1926 -

No. 11- Church of England Lands.

No.12 - Leases.

No. 13 - Hawkers.

No. 14 - Lotteries and Art Unions.

No. 15- Motor Traffic.

No. 16- ProvisionalGovernment (No. 2).

No. 17-Gun Licence.

No. 18 - City Area Leases (No. 3).

No. 19- Industrial Board (No. 2).

No. 20 - Trespass on Commonwealth Lands.

No. 21- Billiard Saloon.

No. 22 - Trading Hours.

Ordinance of 1927 - No. 1 - Provisional

Government.

Seat of Government (Administration) Act -

Notice of intention to vary the plan of lay-out of the City of Canberra, dated 11th November, 1926.

Order for variation of the plan of layout of the City of Canberra, dated 13th December, 1926.

Science and Industry Research Act-Science and Industry Research Regulations StatutoryRules 1926, No. 125.

Spirits Act - Spirits Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 202.

Superannuation Act- Superannuation Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 188.

Treaty of Peace (Germany) Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1926, Nos. 140, 164, 193, 193.

War Precautions Act Repeal Act - Alien Shareholders Regulations - Statutory Rules 1926, No. 190.

War Service Homes Act -

Land acquired in New South Wales, at - Neutral Bay,Keiraville, South Randwick.

Amendment to an arrangement between the War Service Homes’ Commissioner and the State of Western Australia, dated 17th May, 1926.

Wireless Telegraphy Act - Regulations Amended- Statutory Rules 1926, No. 114; 1927, No.3.

page 34

PARLIAMENTARY EMPLOYEES

Mr SPEAKER (Hon Sir Littleton Groom:

– On the 13th August last the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) asked that during the recess certain information should be prepared concerning employees of the House of Representatives. I have had the detailed information asked for prepared, and the return will be laid upon the table of the Library to-day.

page 34

STATES GRANTS BILL

Second Reading

Debate resumed from 4th June, 1926 (vide page 2691), on motion by Dr. Earle Page -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr SCULLIN:
YARRA, VICTORIA

– I secured the adjournment of the debate on this measure, but, as I understand that the PrimeMinister desires to speak now upon the subject, I shall reserve my remarks until a later stage.

Mr BRUCE:
PrimeMinister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT

– I am very much obliged to the h onorable member for waiving his right to speak now to permit me to intervene in the debate. The bill was introduced in June of last year, when the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) made his secondreading speech upon it; but, as material alterations of the measure are to be proposed, it will probably be convenient to the House if, at this stage,. I indicate generally the nature of those amendments, so that honorable members may be able in continuing the debate to direct their attention to the points with which I propose to deal.

The measure is of grave and serious importance to Australia, because it concerns the financial relations of the Commonwealth with the States, the financial relations between the two great instruments of government under our Constitution by which the public affairs of Australia are conducted. The basis of our Federation is co-operation between the Commonwealth and the States. Each authority has its own separate and definite sphere of activity, but from time totime there must be co-operation between them on questions of mutual concern. At the present time there are considerable differences of opinion between the Commonwealth and the State authorities. A deplorable spirit of antagonism has come about, and has considerably intensified during the last three months. This we must greatly deplore, no matter what our shade of political opinion, and whether we view questions from the angle of Commonwealth or State interests. If this spirit continues to exist, its effects will be disastrous for Australia. We must, therefore create a different atmosphere and better feeling. Upon my recent return from abroad I was much struck by the existence of the conditions to which I refer. I had just travelled through the United States of America, and had had an opportunity to hear there, at first hand, of the problems and difficulties with which the people of that country had been . faced in the evolution of the constitutional relations of the Federal and State governments. It was made very clear that whenever serious differences arise between those authorities and mutual antagonisms are engendered, the progress of the countryis retarded and its prosperity diminished. Since my return I have stated publicly that this Government is desirous of doing anything possible to find a solution of the present difficulties, and to check the growing spirit of antagonism between the State and the Commonwealth authorities. I trust that whatI shall say to-day, and the action which the Commonwealth Government is now prepared to take, will prove to the people that we arc sincere in our desire to put an end to this hostility.

I ask the House to view this subject, not in a party spirit but with the realization that we arc the representatives of the people in the Commonwealth sphere of action. We must so conduct ourselves that no charge of unfairness to the States can be made against us, and that we cannot rightly be accused of wishing to invade the realm of State authority. We must make it clear that we are not endeavouring, because of the power that accrues to the central government by reason of its ever-increasing resources, to dictate financially to the States, or to place them in an unfair or invidious position. But the matter in hand is one for this Parliament to determine, and every honorable member must exercise his own judgment in arriving at a conclusion as to the course to be followed. I recognize that to-day there is a considerable body of opinion in this country to the effect that the present Government desires to aggrandize the Commonwealth at the expense of the States, that we wish to bring the States into some form of financial tutelage, and desire to invade realms that legitimately and properly belong to them. I give my assurance to the House and to the people of Australia that Ministers have no such desire. It is our desire not merely to give the States absolute justice, but, so far as lies in our power, to deal with them generously, and we do not wish to invade fields in which the State authorities alone should function. But great . national questions arise from time to time, and these present problems of administration which must be dealt with on a national basis, and by co-operation between the States and the Commonwealth. On such questions we wish to work with the States in a spirit of understanding, mutual trust, and respect. That is the attitude of the Commonwealth Government in connexion with this measure, and I desire to express it definitely and clearly.

This bill has created intense feeling in the country, and many persons appear to believe that it has been introduced to deprive the States of certain rights, to place them in a position of financial embarassment. and to render it impossible for them to carry out their legitimate functions. Some go so far even as to suggest that this measure is an attempt by the Commonwealth Government to bring about unification by the financial strangulation of the States. We have, therefore, to consider now whether, without departing from principles that are vital, there is anything we can do which will make the State authorities see clearly that thic’ Parliament will not permit injustice to be done to them,’ and that the purpose of the measure is to give them fair and equitable treatment in a financial readjustment ‘which is essential in the in- terests of the whole of the people, and particularly of the State authorities themselves. For this reason, the Government asks the House not to go forward with the whole of the proposals out-lined last year, and with regard to which necessary measures were brought down. We propose that Parliament should pass the measure amended in such a way as to provide for the cessation of the per capita payment, that is, the payment to each State of 25s. per head of its population. We ask that that payment shall be terminated on the 30th June next, and that the States shall be invited to a conference to consider methods by which the new financial position can be adjusted without detriment to their interests, and to prevent their financial embarrassment. At that conference, the whole question can be looked at from every angle, and every possible method considered. In order that the States f may not be forced to some rash decision, and to prevent their financial embarrassment during the financial year 1927-28, we propose that clause 7 shall be altered to read -

Subject to the terms of any agreement made between the Commonwealth and the States and adopted by this Parliament, the Treasurer shall, during the financial year commencing on the 1st day of July, 1927, make payments to each State in equal monthly instalments of the amount specified in the schedule opposite the name of that State.

The amounts specified in the amended schedule that will be brought’ down will correspond with the per capita payments that the States would have received for the year 1927-28 had no action been taken. At the suggested conference the States would be asked to consider methods by which this financial readjustment could be brought about. On behalf of the Government I say that Ministers would go to that conference with absolutely open minds, and without prejudices respecting the scheme that we have already submitted. We are prepared to examine any alternatives. I shall indicate some of the methods for a readjustment that could be reviewed and considered by the conference. I remind honorable members that the scheme recently submitted had, of necessity, to be one that the Commonwealth could put into operation itself owing to the impossibility of arriving at any agreement with the States. I do not say who has been to blame for this, but since the Government submitted its proposals to the States’ representatives of the States have never been prepared to discuss the methods by which an alteration could be made of the financial payments of the Commonwealth to the States. If the States will meet us, we are prepared to consider any scheme and ‘ any method that may be suggested. The States should have confidence that they will receive fair and equitable treatment, because in the scheme which was proposed by the Commonwealth in 1923, there was a provision designed to make each State £100,000 better off than under the capitation arrangement, and the scheme now proposed would make each -State £50,000 better off than it is at present. We have said frankly that if there is thought to be any mistake in the figures on which our calculations have been made we are prepared to appoint a commission of independent persons to consider them, and to rectify them, if, after investigation, they should be found to be wrong. I mention these things to show that the Commonwealth has indicated that it is desirous of giving fair and equitable treatment to the States, and is giving more assurance now of its wish to help them, and to see justice done than was given in 1910, when the per capita payments were commenced, and the States received £3,000,000 less revenue annually than they had been getting under the Braddon provision of the Constitution; and, again, in 1919, when there was proposed an annual reduction of the per capita payment by 2s. 6d. until it should reach the sum of 10s. No compensation of any character- was then proposed. I think that the States can come to the suggested conference in absolute confidence that they will be fairly treated by the Commonwealth. There are many methods for the determination of this somewhat difficult question that could be considered at such a conference. One that has been discussed a great deal during the last four years is the evacuation of certain fields of taxation by the Commonwealth to the maximum of its finan- cial ability in order to enable the States to recoup themselves from as wide an area as possible for the loss of the per capita payments. We are prepared to consider the whole field of -direct taxation, and not to limit the discussion to the particular methods that have already been suggested. We will examine any proposal to see if it is practicable. Another suggestion, and one which has been very freely discussed recently, is the establishment by the Commonwealth of a sinking fund for the debts to the States. There is a great deal to commend that. But there is something that I should say with regard to the proposal recently put forward by Mr. Warren Kerr. The establishment of a sinking fund, if practicable, would be admirable, and would do much to improve the credit and the financial status of the States; but it would be impossible for the Commonwealth to take any action of that character without their co-operation. I think this House would take the view, and prob-ably most people outside, that for the Commonwealth, without the agreement of the , States. to say it would establish a sinking fund, and thus take over a State obligation, would be tantamount to telling the State authorities that they had not shown sufficient intelligence in the conduct of their financial affairs - it would be dictation by the Commonwealth to the sovereign State Governments, which they would resent. But should the representatives of the ‘States and the Commonwealth meet in conference and agree upon some scheme, the position would be different. The method that has been mentioned is certainly one that should be exhaustively examined. Another suggestion that should be considered is the assumption by the Commonwealth of some part of the State debts. There might be a full consideration of the present indebtedness of the Commonwealth and States, and an endeavour might be made to arrive at a policy in regard to the provision of sinking funds, and the general conduct of public borrowing. The need for considering the establishment of sinking funds for State debts, and for some proper basis for the whole of the borrowing by States and Commonwealth and the fixing of rates of interest, was brought home to me when I was recently in London.

Shortly before I arrived there a pamphlet was issued attacking Australia and her finance in a manner which created an extraordinarily bad impression among the investing public, of Britain. The pamphlet was in current discussion everywhere, and I took the opportunity to reply to its charges. The case was one which could be answered on broad general principles by some one representative of Australian interests who was in close touch with her financial conditions. But, unquestionably, there are many points respecting State and Commonwealth borrowing and our financial position generally which could be attacked, and such an attack might have a very unfortunate effect upon the Commonwealth and its credit abroad, and upon the rates at which we borrow. It is most desirable, therefore, that the subject should be considered, and the proposed conference would give an opportunity for its consideration. It would offer the possibility of something being done, especially in view of the adjustment that must take place on the cessation of the per capita payments. We are prepared to meet the States at every point, and discuss any suggestion from every angle. It has been said that instead of the Commonwealth proceeding now to legislate for the abolition of the per capita payments, it should invite the States to a conference to discuss the question. I think that that statement is due to a misunderstanding of the position. We have already conferred with the States regarding their right to a part of the Customs revenue. That matter was debated at the conference of 1926. The States would not then discuss with us the methods that we were proposing for meeting the position that would be created by the abolition of the per capita payment, but every State representative declared its moral right to the continuance of that payment. The Commonwealth replied to that declaration, and gave the arguments which prevented the admission that the States had any “ right “ at all to the per capita payment. That matter is not now before us, but I venture to say that if we had accepted the contention of the States that they had any right, constitutional, legal, or moral, to this payment, this Parliament would at once have taken steps to repudiate our action.

Mr Mann:

– The Commonwealth did not suggest the transfer of State debts at that conference.

Mr BRUCE:

– The conference did not consider any method. It did not go an inch beyond the claim of the States of a moral right to the per capita payment, and the Commonwealth said that it could not give way. At the 1923 conference the State Premiers did not fight the case on the basis of their moral or legal rights; they considered only what would be a fair adjustment. Five of them were prepared to come to an agreement with the Commonwealth for the discontinuance of the per capita payments upon certain conditions. Not till the last conference did the “moral right “ issue arise. Some people may ask. “What does it matter whether the States have any constitutional, legal, or moral rights to these payments? Let the present system continue, and so avoid trouble.” Few people understand how dangerous is the present financial position of the States. We all agree that they should be treated equitably, and it is surely wrong that they should have no security in regard to a certain portion of their revenue, but should be dependent for. it entirely upon the whim of this Parliament. The States must recognize that at any time the whole or portion of the moneys they are now receiving from the Commonwealth may be withdrawn by some perfectly sincere Federal government which believes that nothing should stand in the way of certain schemes of social reform to which the whole financial resources of the Commonwealth should be applied.

Mr West:

– Has the Prime Minister Mr. Lang in his mind ?

Mr BRUCE:

– I have no particular individual in mind. A perfectly sincere government might be convinced that its social reform policy was a vital and urgent necessity, and that no harm would be done to the States if the whole of the Commonwealth’s revenues were used to give effect to that policy. I remind honorable members that in 1910 the nowaccepted principle of old-age pensions waa an important issue in this Parliament. To-day everybody is agreed that the old and infirm should be provided for by the State. In 1910 that principle was new, but because the government of the day regarded it as a vital plank of its policy, the payments to the States were reduced by £3,000,000, and that amount was applied to meet this new obligation. Under the present system it is possible for the Commonwealth Government at any time to cut off all the payments now being made to the States, and to give to them no compensation of any kind. Surely honorable members will appreciate the need for agreement between the Commonwealth and the States, so that the financial position of the latter may be placed upon a sound basis. Another evil of the existing arrangement is that one government raises revenues which another, having no responsibility to the taxpayers who contributed the money, expends. That has always been recognized as a wrong principle. The definite term in regard to these payments having expired seven years ago, the time is opportune for a readjustment of the finances of the Commonwealth and the States on a rigid basis, so that each government may be directly responsible to the taxpayers for the raising of the moneys it expends. Those who contribute to the revenue have a right to say whether or not they approve of the manner in which their contributions are being expended.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I am afraid that the ten years’ road agreement cuts across that principle.

Mr BRUCE:

– There are people who say that the Government is already departing from that principle, notably, in connexion with the provision of funds for great national purposes, such as roads. The answer to that objection is that every State which is receiving money under the Federal Aid Roads Act hag made an agreement with the Commonwealth for the expenditure of that money upon specific works. The basis of expenditure is agreed upon, the two governments contribute the money and control its disbursement, and each is responsible directly to the taxpayers for the money it raises and expends. In that arrangement there is no departure from the principle that I have emphasized. There is, however, one clear violation of that principle, and it will continue; I refer to the grants in aid to States whose needs and developmental obligations exceed the capacity of their people and finances. But the Constitution definitely provides for such payments, which are necessitated by the disparity in the stages of development reached in the different States. The last point with which I wish to deal is the inequity of payments to the States on a population basis. The per capita system means that the State which has the largest population, is most advanced in its development, and has therefore fewest problems to solve, will progressively receive more and more from the Commonwealth, while States like Western Australia, with small populations and great developmental problems, will fare the worst. In other words, the State which is best able to provide for its own needs wilt continue for ever to receive the greatest share of Commonwealth money. That inequity is aggravated by the policy of tariff protection. The tendency is for secondary industries to develop in the most populous centres, and unquestionably the more populous eastern States are deriving the maximum of benefit from the protectionist policy of the country. Thus the States that benefit most through the tariff receive also the largest payments from the Commonwealth. I have stressed three reasons which make the discontinuance of the per capita payments essential, namely, the financial insecurity of the States under the present system, the inequity of payments upon a population basis, and the bad principle of one authority spending the. revenues raised by another authority.. This Parliament will shirk its duty if it does not take action to put our .financial relations with the States upon a sounder basis, by affirming that the per capita payment must cease, leaving the method of re-adjustment to be discussed by the Commonwealth and States at a later date. As to the proposal that the Commonwealth should again seek a conference with the States with a view to getting^ their concurrence in the discontinuance of the payments, I remind honorable members that we have already met the representatives of the States, who have very definitely declared that they are not prepared to discuss the surrender of these moneys upon any terms. I 4o not blame State Treasurers for their attitude. Who, if he were in charge of a State treasury, would be prepared to give up a revenue of £2,000,000 which was raised and handed to him by another authority, and face the prospect of having to raise the money by a direct levy? Naturally, the States are not prepared to yield revenues they have enjoyed in the past and assume new taxation obligations. The responsibility of action rests with this Parliament. The need for re-adjustment, however, is vital and pressing; and when the Commonwealth has taken the initial step of discontinuing the payments, the States will be prepared uo discuss ways and means. State Treasurers would not be human if they consented to discuss ways and means before their “ moral right,” or whatever other basis of claim they are relying upon, had proved untenable. I turn now to the alleged right of the States to a share of the Customs and excise revenue. Such a right must have either a constitutional, legal, or moral basis. Obviously, the States can have no constitutional or legal right or they would take action in the High Court to prevent the Commonwealth Government from proceeding with its proposals. If the States have any right at all to the continuance of the payments it must be a moral one, and I propose to show briefly that no such right exists. At the time of federation, it was obvious that the obligations of the Commonwealth would not necessitate an expenditure approaching anything like the amount of Customs revenue that was then being received. The control of Customs had to be handed over to the Commonwealth Parliament in order to’ obtain uniformity in tariff matters, and an arrangement was made which involved, broadly, that the States, during the first ten years, should have returned to them threequarters of the Customs receipts. But the revenues were so large that there was, in addition, between £6,000,000 and £7,000,000 which was not required to meet the expenditure of the Commonwealth. That amount was also handed back to the States. Section 94 of the Constitution provides -

After five years from the imposition of uniform duties of Customs, the Parliament may provide, on such basis as it deems fair, for the monthly payment to the several States of all surplus revenue of the Commonwealth.

There are two points that I wish to stress La considering that clause of the Constitution. One is that it is the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth that has to be returned to the States, and the other is that the payments are to be made on such a basis as the Commonwealth Parliament deems fair. The principle of paying so much per head was evolved long after the framing of the Constitution; at the time of federation, it was not in contemplation. At the end of a 10-year period, a new arrangement was made, under which the States were to receive. for a period of ten years - until 1920 - 25s. per head of their population. It was proposed at that time that the people’ should, by amendment of the Constitution, extend the period indefinitely beyond ten years. The question was put to the electors, but they refused to accept the proposal, and Parliament agreed to the payment tor ten. years only. When the basis of payment was changed from three-fourths of the Customs revenue to 25s. per capita, the Commonwealth gained in revenue £3,000,000, and the States were deprived of that amount. It is worth while recalling how the case was then stated. It was not a very kindly act to take £3,000,000 from the States, but the action was justified, and was agreed to by the people because the increasing obligations of the Commonwealth had reduced the amount of surplus revenue. The two obligations that were particularly under consideration at that time were naval defence and oldage pensions, which were recognized in 1910 as Commonwealth obligations which would reduce the Commonwealth surplus revenue. It was because of that, and not because of any moral, legal, or other claim, that the per capita arrangement was made, During the 10-year period following 1910, the Great War occurred, and, as a result, the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth disappeared. Not only that, but there was such a shortage of revenue from sources which it was contemplated would supply the Commonwealth, that the Commonwealth had to invade the sphere of direct taxation, which it was contemplated should belong exclusively to the States. In 1919 the position had become so acute under the burden of the war that the then Treasurer, the right honorable member for Balaclava (Mr Watt) approached the States with a proposal that their per capita payment should be reduced by half-a-crown a vear until it had reached 10s. The States did not welcome the proposal - no one expected that they would; they resisted it oh the ground not of moral right - we heard nothing of moral rights then - but of expediency and their own interests. To-day the Commonwealth has no surplus revenue to distribute to any one. Legitimate revenues have been more than exhausted by obligations that the Commonwealth has had to assume. In addition to those commitments for which part of the revenues of the States were taken away in 1910, namely, naval defence and old-age pensions, we have since incurred other commitments which have wiped out the surplus revenue, until to-day we have, if anything, a deficit. The obligations of the Commonwealth have more than balanced its revenue, and will continue to do so, unless it invades fields of taxation reserved for the States, and, having gone into those fields, remains there. If the Commonwealth, with the approval of the people, wandered over the whole field of direct taxation it would, in the end, become the dictator of State finances, because it would be raising revenue to the exclusion of the power of the States to do so. The obligations of the Commonwealth that more than absorb all the Customs revenue are: war obligations, which amount, including interest on sinking fund and pensions and medical services to soldiers, to approximately £29,000,000; old-age pensions, totalling £9,000,000; and defence, which at the moment is absorbing £5,382,000. Those obligations alone account for £44,000,000, and I do not know that any one has suggested that the Customs revenue is exceeding £42,000,000 ; it is probably less than that amount. In addition to the items which I have mentioned as more than absorbing the revenue which it was contemplated the Commonwealth should have, and out of which, if it had a surplus, it should pay something to the States, there are : interest on the ordinary indebtedness of the Commonwealth, apart from war indebtedness, sinking fund obligations, maternity allowance, statutory provisions which this Parliament has from time to time made, involving an expenditure running into hundreds of thousands of pounds, and the cost of the departments of government. All those commitments far exceed any revenue that we have, and therefore there can be no moral claim for surplus revenue to be paid to the States. The contention, which I have suddenly realized is being put forward, is that whatever our revenue may

Mr. Bruce. amount to, there is a mysterious surplus to which the States are entitled; but it is obvious that that surplus could be made to disappear by repealing taxation. I do not think that any honorable member who has advanced that contention will be prepared to uphold it after he has seriously considered it. Although many honorable members may quarrel with the method proposed by the Government for readjusting the finances, and may consider that the proposal to evacuate fields of taxation is wrong, they cannot successfully claim, in view of the obligations we have assumed and the expenditure to which we are committed, that the States have a moral right to part of our revenue. It has been found impossible to reach an agreement on this matter. Representatives of the Government have met representatives of the States, who would not agree to our proposals; human nature being what it is, it would be amazing if they had done so. Some one has to take action to alter the existing system; because it has to be altered. The Government takes the responsibility .of saying that the system is wrong, and that it must be altered. Having taken that responsibility, having provided for the cessation of the present basis of payment, and having provided ample time for negotiations with the States for the purpose of agreeing upon a basis for the future, it says that it is ready to discuss any method for bringing about a result that will be satisfactory to both the Commonwealth and the States, and will do justice to both.

I trust that the Government’s offer will be recognized as generous, and that it will be given credit for a sincere desire to meet the States and solve a very difficult problem. I feel sure that the States will respond, and will meet the Commonwealth in the spirit in which it desires to meet them. If no arrangement can be made,- the matter will rest with this Parliament for determination. Such a result, however,’ I do not regard as likely. 1 feel sure that out of the discussions with the States good will come, particularly if we consider whether the Commonwealth can assume part of the indebtedness of the States, to - the benefit of the financial standing and the -credit of the whole of Australia, Commonwealth and States alike. The proposals that the Government now makes, and the amendments that it proposes to insert in the bill, have already been circulated to honorable members. I suggest that they open a way for the removal of the present antagonism between the Commonwealth and the States. I am certain that theStates will meet the Commonwealth in the same spirit as that which has prompted this offer, and I assure them that we are prepared to discuss any method of settlement that may be suggested. But, although we are willing to meet them in every possible way, we cannot depart from the principle which we have laid down. We believe the present system is wrong, and we think it is the duty of this Parliament to set it right.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Scullin) adjourned.

page 41

ADJOURNMENT

Dr. Argyle’s Mission to the United States of America.

Motion (by Mr. Bruce) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

.- I have an important matter to bring under the notice of honorable members. I believe that every honorable member of this House has the honour and good name of Australia at heart, and so. have I. It is for that reason that I wish to express my objection to Dr. Argyle, a member of the Victorian Government, going to the United States of America to beg money from the rich Rockefeller corporation. Seeing that Australia lost 60,000 of her sons in the war, and spent £300,000,000 in prosecuting it, she should surely be able to pay for the education of her people without begging money from the United States of America. Victoria is my natal

State, and I am ashamed that these words should be placed on her escutcheon- “ This State cannot pay to educate its children, but must send Dr. Argyle to America to beg money from the Rockefeller Endowment Fund for the purpose.” I shall take other opportunities of referring to this matter; but here and now 1 wish to say emphatically that, as an Australian who loves his native land, I hate and loathe any action that, in my opinion, degrades it.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

House adjourned at 5.5 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 2 March 1927, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1927/19270302_reps_10_115/>.