House of Representatives
13 August 1925

9th Parliament · 3rd Session



Mr. Speaker (Rt. Hon. W. A. Watt) took the chair at 2.30 p.m and read prayers.

page 1363

PETITION

Claim,of J. F. Watson

Mr. BAMFORD presented a petition from Mr. James Frederick Watson praying that the House would . ratify an agreement between the Bight Honorable W. M. Hughes, as Prime Minister, and himself, in order that if he so desired he might prosecute at law a claim under it.

Petition received and read.

page 1363

QUESTION

SEARCH FOB OIL

Government Subsidy

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

– In an announcement appearing in the Argus this morning of an alteration of the policy of the Government with regard to the assistance to. be given for the discovery of oil, the statement is made that in certain portions of New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia, boring for oil will be subsidized by the Government. I askthe Prime Minister whether the statement to which I have referred is authentic, and, if so, whether the southeastern portion of South Australia, which has been reported on very favourably by reputable geologists, has been overlooked or whether the report of Dr. Wade on that territory has been received and considered.

Mr BRUCE:
Minister for External Affairs · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT

– I have made an announcement of the policy of the Government with regard to the assistance to be given in connexion with the search for oil in Australia. The only places where the Government has agreed to subsidize boring on a £1 for £1 basis are those in which Dr. Wade, who has travelled throughout Australia reports that there are reasonable prospects of oil being found. No part of Australia has been overlooked, but the Government considers that boring operations should be subsidized only where it has been advised that there are possibilities of its discovery.

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– Do I understand that the offer of a reward of £50,000 for the finding of oil in the Commonwealth or its territories has been withdrawn? As the announcement with respect to the subsidy applies only to certain states, are we to assume that Papua and the Mandated Territory of New Guinea have been overlooked ?

Mr BRUCE:

– As to the first part of the honorable member’s question the offer of a reward of £50,000 for the discovery of oil has now been withdrawn because it is considered that it does nothing to stimulate discovery. If oil were found in commercial quantities a reward of £50,000 would be of no great importance. It is thought better to assist in meeting boring expenditure, With regard to the second part of the honorable member’s question, the mandated territories have not been overlooked. Entirely separate arrangements have been made to assist the discovery of oil there. The present announcement is applicable only to the mainland of Australia.

Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931

– I understand that Dr. Wade was asked to report upon the oil-bearing possibilities of the southeastern district of South Australia, and I should like to know if his report has been received and considered ?

Mr BRUCE:

– I believe that Dr. Wade did report on the oil-bearing .possibilities of that district, but I speak subject to correction. I may add, however, that the Government is quite prepared to consider tho offer of a subsidy for oil prospecting in any part of the Commonwealth where it is reported by an authority such as Dr. Wade that there is the possibility of the discovery of oil.

page 1364

QUESTION

IMMIGRATION OF ALIENS

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Before the adjournment last month, a bill -was passed to regulate and control immigration into this country. Have the Government during the short recess done anything to tighten up regulations with respect to the introduction of aliens?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The honorable member is no doubt referring to that part of the amending Immigration Act which provides that by proclamation the Government may limit the number of immigrants of certain nationalities admitted to this country. No proclamation has been issued under that part of the act.

page 1364

QUESTION

MEETING OF PARLIAMENT AT CANBERRA

Mr BOWDEN:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will tie Prime Minister arrange for this Parliament to hold a meeting at Canberra before its dissolution? If so, will be consider the desirability of holding such a meeting on Foundation Day next year, the 26th of January, and will he communicate with the Imperial Government with a view to getting H.R.H. the Duke of York to visit Australia, to open the Parliament at Canberra ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– All the honorable member’s suggestions will receive the most careful consideration.

page 1364

QUESTION

BOUNTY ON COTTON

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Government yet come to a decision in regard to the request made by the Queensland Minister for Agriculture for a federal bounty of 2d. a lb. on raw cotton? If not, when may a decision bc expected?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– Later in the day I hope to be in a position to make a statement upon the whole subject of cotton.

page 1364

QUESTION

EMPIRE TRADE MARK

Mr MANNING:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– With reference to the cabled report that the Imperial Economic Committee has recommended that an Empire trade mark be placed on goods imported into Great Britain from other countries within the Empire, and “in view of the fact that many of Australia’s exports are marketed in Great Britain as the production of another dominion, will the Prime Minister see that provision is made for not only an Empire trade mark on goods sold in the wholesale and retail trade, but also a. distinguishing mark showing their country of origin ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– A very great advance has been made in persuading the British Government .to> legislate to have a distinctive mark placed on imported goods to indicate that they are Empire or foreign produce. Representations have been made to the Imperial authorities to have marks placed on goods to distinguish between the produce of the different parts of the Empire, but I am not in a position to say that they are prepared to do that. The basis of the recommendation of the Imperial Economic Committee was that in this matter the Empire should he viewed as a whole.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Do I understand the Prime Minister to say that the Australian brands on butter and other produce will be practically kept in the background, or replaced by an Empire brand? Or does the right honorable gentleman mean that in the future, as in the past, we shall be able to place on the London and other markets Australian produce bearing our own Australian brands?

Mr BRUCE:

– The honorable member has misunderstood my reply to the honorable member for Macquarie. Australia can place on the British market any of its produce under its own brands. At present, however, there is nothing to distinguish foreign produce from Empire produce placed on the British market, and the alteration now being made is that all goods must henceforth bear a stamp indicating whether they are .Empire or foreign produce. This will not prevent Australia from placing its own brands on its produce.

page 1365

QUESTION

WIRE NETTING FOB WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– In view of the great losses which are being caused in many portions of the wheat-growing area of Western Australia by rabbits, many settlers having lost the whole of the value of their holdings from their ravages, will the Minister for Trade and Customs use his influence with the shipping companies so that the large quantities of wire netting ordered in the eastern states for delivery to Western Australia - one firm alone has 90 miles awaiting delivery - may be regarded as an essential commodity, and shipped as speedily as possible?

Mr PRATTEN:
Minister for Trade and Customs · MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I shall get into communication with the honorable member later on, and do my best in the direction he has indicated.

page 1365

QUESTION

TUBERCULAR SOLDIERS

Mr COLEMAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is it the intention of the Government to give effect to the findings of the Royal Commission on repatriation, particularly the recommendation that special pension treatment shall be given to tubercular ex-soldiers?

Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
Minister for Defence · CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– On the 11th June, the honorable member gave notice of a question on the subject, and was informed that the matter was under the consideration of the Government, and that a’ statement would be made at an early date. With the consent of the House, that statement will be made early next week.

page 1365

QUESTION

BUFFALO FLY PEST

Mr NELSON:
NORTHERN TERRITORY, NORTHERN TERRITORY

– I understand that quite recently a gentleman named Mr. Murnane was appointed to investigate the buffalo fly pest in the north-west of Australia, and I desire to know if this gentleman will be instructed to extend his investigations to the Northern Territory, which is the home of the pest?

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member has inadvertently submitted without notice a question that appears on tho business-paper for to-day.

page 1365

QUESTION

UNDESIRABLE IMMIGRANTS

Mr MANNING:

– Is the Prime Minister aware that recently Mr. Lang, Premier of New South Wales, in making a statement about the Independent Workers of the World demonstration in Sydney, said, “ I do nob think New South Wales should be made a dumping ground for industrial refuse of the British Empire. More care should be taken by the Federal authorities in the admission of undesirables “ ? Will the right honorable gentleman consider the advisability of informing Mr. Lang that the amending Immigration Act passed this session, which has already proved most beneficial by materially assisting in the restoration of industrial peace, makes it easier to deal with undesirable immigrants of the type referred to by him, and that, if necessary, the Commonwealth Government will co-operate with the Government of New South Wales in dealing with these men?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I read Mr. Lang’s statement, and shall welcome any co-operation that he may be prepared to give to the Commonwealth in preventing the entry of undesirable aliens, and in getting rid of them if they come here; and as the Commonwealth Government has now been given greater power, not only to prevent the influx of undesirable aliens, but also to remove them from the country, I trust that Mr. Lang will co-operate with us should the necessity arise.

page 1366

COMMONWEALTH CONVERSION LOAN

Mr YATES:
ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– In regard to the “ extra gratuity “ which is being offered to those who “ did so well “ during the war, I should like to ask the Treasurer if he is responsible for the following advertisement which appeared, on the 1st August, in the Adelaide News: -

Commonwealth Wak Conversion Loan.. Guilt-edged Security.

Or has the truth escaped by accident?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Treasurer · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– I take it that the spelling of the advertisement referred to is the responsibility of the journal in which it appeared, and not that of the Government.

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the Treasurer aware of statements to the effect that certain companies induced him to offer to convert the loan at 5½ per cent., instead of 4½ per cent., and have profited considerably thereby. Will the honorable gentleman furnish the House with the names of the people who gave him that advice?

Dr EAELE PAGE:
Treasurer · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– I have not heard of any such statement; there is no truth in it.

page 1366

QUESTION

SIR JAMES ELDER

Mr YATES:

– Will the Prime Minister say whether Sir James Elder, Australian Trade Commissioner in America, is visiting England on public business or on holiday? How long will he be absent from America? Will the Prime Minister submit a statement showing the percentage increase in trade between Australia and America since the establishment of the Trade Commissioner’s office?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

Sir James Elder applied to the Government for permission to visit Great Britain in order to see the work being done at Wembley and to gain direct personal knowledge of commercial affairs in that country. Leave of absence for, I think, either six weeks or two months, was given. I ask the honorable member to give notice of the latter portion of his question.

page 1366

QUESTION

PREFERENCE TO AUSTRALIANMADE GOODS

Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories say whether in the furnishing of public buildings at Canberra preference is being given to Australian-made goods, whenever possible?

Mr MARR:
Honorary Minister · PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– I shall bring the question under the notice of the Minister for Home and Territories, but as preference to Australian-made goods is part of the Government’s policy I assume that the Minister will see that effect is given to that principle at Canberra.

Mr FORDE:

– Did the Prime Minister notice the comments in the Melbourne press upon the fact that at the parliamentary dinner in the Queen’s Hall to Admiral Coontz and other officers of the American Fleet the flags used in the decoration scheme were marked “made in Japan”? Did the Government make any effort to obtain Australian-made bunting ?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The fact to which the honorable member has alluded was brought under my notice on the occasion of the dinner and I asked that the reason for the use of foreign-made bunting should be ascertained.

page 1366

QUESTION

RETIRED TAXATION. OFFICERS

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether, in view of the fact that the Income Tax Collection Act 1924 provides for compensation to retired taxation officers only up to 31st December, 1925, it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation to provide compensation for any retirements after that date?

Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The question covers a matter of policy which will be considered by the Government.

page 1366

QUESTION

REPARATION RECEIPTS FROM GERMANY

Ex Gratia Payments to Civilians

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the British Government have decided to set aside £5,000,000 out of the first reparation receipts from Germany in order to make ex gratia payments to British nationals who have suffered loss through enemy action?
  2. Will Australian subjects who have suffered such loss be reimbursed from this fund?
  3. Is ita fact that the Commonwealth has received large sums of moneyby way of her share of reparations?
  4. Is it intended to make ex gratia payments to Australian subjects whohave suffered loss from enemy action from moneys received by way of reparations?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Yes.
  2. No. The appropriation by the British Government is for the benefit of British nationals domiciled in the United Kingdom only.
  3. The amount received to date is £257,692.
  4. Parliament recently ‘ approved of an amendment in the Sinking Fund Law which provides that reparation moneys shall be paid to the National Debt Sinking Fund. It is, however, expected that a decision will shortly bc arrived at on the question of making other moneys available for the purpose of ex gratia payments to Australian civilians who suffered loss or injury from enemy action during the war.

page 1367

QUESTION

MAIZE IMPORTS

Mr MACKAY:
for Mr. J. Francis

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What was the amount paid - [a) as duty, (&) as dumping duty - on maize imported into the Commonwealth from the Union of South Africa, during the year ended 30th June, 1925?

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Four shillings and ninepence.

    1. Nil.

page 1367

QUESTION

PRICKLY PEAR

Mr FORDE:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Markets and Migration, upon notice -

  1. Is the expenditure incurred by the Queensland Prickly Pear Commission taken from the joint fund established by the Commonwealth Government and the State Governments of New South Wales and Queensland?
  2. If so, what amount per annum is absorbed in salaries and Commissioners’ fees?
  3. Seeing that the prickly pear is a national menace, will the Government be prepared to grant a special bonus for cotton grown on prickly pear land which the farmer has specially cleared for cotton growing?
  4. Will the Government provide a sum of money for the Bureau of Science and Industry for experimental and research work with a view to encouraging the marketing of efficient mechanical devices for the clearing of prickly pear lands?
  5. What experiments have been made with prickly pear in the manufacture of power alcohol, and with what result?
  6. Will the Government give favorable consideration to a request for a bonus on power alcohol manufactured from prickly pear?
Mr ATKINSON:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · WILMOT, TASMANIA · CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. The Queensland Prickly Pear Land Commission is a purely state body established by a state act, and no expenditure incurred by it is charged to the joint fund established by the Commonwealth Government and the State Governments of New South Wales and Queens land. The Queensland Prickly Pear Land Commission has no connexion with the Commonwealth Prickly Pear Board, hut the two bodies co-operate with each other in the performance of their work.
  2. See answer -to No. 1.
  3. The settlement of prickly pear lands is a function of the State Governments, and it is not considered desirable that the Commonwealth Government should intervene.
  4. The investigations on prickly pear by the Institute of Science and Industry, in cooperation with the New South Wales and Queensland Agricultural Departments, are confined to biological methods of attack, i.e., the introduction of natural enemies of the pear. Mechanical methods of attack are being dealt with by the State Prickly Pear Commissions in Now South Wales and Queensland.
  5. Experiments by the Queensland Agricultural chemist indicate that under the most favorable conditions the maximum yield of alcohol obtainable from prickly pear is 0.5 per cent, on the weight of the pear. This is equivalent to about 1i gallons of spirit per ton of pear.

    1. If it can 1be shown that prickly pear can be utilized profitably for the production of alcohol, the matter will he considered by the Commonwealth Government.

page 1367

QUESTION

MECHANICAL COTTON PICKERS

Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. In view of the growing importance of the cotton industry to Australia, has the Government considered the advisability of encouraging the invention and manufacture in Australia of mechanical cotton pickers?
  2. If so, what action, if any, does the Government intend to take?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The Government realizes the benefits which would accrue from the invention of a practicable cotton picker, and is closely following, through the Australian Commissioner in New York, the results of experiments in this direction, which are being carried out in the United States of America. So far as can be ascertained, however, a mechanical cotton picker has not yet been evolved upon a satisfactory commercial basis.

page 1367

QUESTION

BANKRUPTCY ACT

Mr MACKAY:
for Mr. J. Francis

asked the Attorney-General, upon notice -

Whether the Bankruptcy Act passed last-, session is now in operation, and, if not, is hein a position to state when the measure wilL be given effect to?

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
Attorney-General · DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND · NAT

– The date of commencement of the Bankruptcy Act has not yet been proclaimed.

Every effort is being made to prepare the necessary machinery. The work of drafting the regulations under the act, which involved a close examination of the regulations of all the states, has just been completed, and the State Governments have been approached with a view to the act being brought into operation at the earliest possible date.

page 1368

QUESTION

FLOATING DOCK AT WALSH ISLAND

Mr MARKS:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Have any further negotiations taken place between the Commonwealth Government and the State Government of Now South Wales regarding the building of a floating dock at Walsh Island?
  2. Is it a fact that this dock, if built, will bc too small to slip a capital ship should one Ever voyage to the Commonwealth?
  3. Is it understood that this dock, if built, will compete with established docks in New South Wales, and which are only about 50 per cent, used atthe present time?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Negotiations are still proceeding between the Commonwealth and the New South Wales Governments in connexion with this matter.
  2. Whilst the capacity wouldbe too small to slip a capital ship, the proposed dock would, however, be able to dock the Australian cruisers, both those existing and in course of construction.
  3. The docks in New South Wales of sufficient capacity for our naval purposes are fixed. A mobile floating dock with special fittings, capable of docking at any part of Australia the 10,000-ton cruisers in course of construction, has a decided value from a defence point of view.

page 1368

QUESTION

REPATRIATION HOSPITALS

Supplies of Ale and Stout.

Mr SEABROOK:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Whether tenders have been called for the supply of ale and stout for repatriation hospitals?
  2. If so, will he give the lowest price quoted, and also the accepted price of same?
  3. If the lowest price was not accepted, will he give the reason?
Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Yes. The practice of the’ Repatriation Commissionis to invite tenders or quotations in each state for supplies.
  2. The lowest prices quoted and accepted on the last occasion were as follow: - Lowest price quoted - Ale, pints, 6s. 3d. per dozen; stout, pints, 6s. 9d. per dozen. Lowest price accepted - Ale, pints, 0s. 3d. per dozen; stout, pints, 0s. 9d. per dozen. This was in South Australia.
  3. In live states the Repatriation Purchase and Contract Boards recommended the acceptance of the lowest tender. In the remaining State (Tasmania), the quantities required monthly were 8 dozen (pints) alc, and 31/3 dozen (pints) stout. The tender form for that state, because of the small requirements, included the supply of wines, cordials, &c, in addition to ale and stout. The lowest prices quoted were: - Ale, pints, 8s. 3d. per dozen; stout, pints, 8s. 9d. per dozen, while the prices accepted were: - Ale, pints, 8s. 9d. per dozen; stout, pints, 9s. per dozen. The Purchase and Contract Board for that state reported as follows: “ Three tenders were received for the supply of ale, stout, &c, to the Hobart Repatriation Hospital, tout owing to two of the firms tendering not providing in their tender for the whole of the requirements, it was recommended that the other tender, which provided for the whole of the supplies required, be accepted.”

The Deputy Commissioner therefore accepted the inclusive tender. The difference in cost in respect of ale and stout was 4s.10d. per month.

page 1368

QUESTION

OLD-AGE AMD INVALID PENSIONS

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. In view of the Treasurer’s statement on 14th July that there was an increase of oldage and invalid pensions to the extent of £1,600,000 in 1923-4 as compared with 1922-3. this being due to an extra payment of 2s. 6d. per week in September, 1923, how does he arrive at this amount, seeing that the last budget-papers give the total payments to pensioners and Benevolent Asvlums for 1923-4 as £6,523,881, and for 1922-3, as £5,424,016, a difference of £1,099,865?
  2. As there were on 30th Juno, 1925, according to the Treasurer, 102,356 old-age and invalid pensioners, which at 2s. Gd. per week represents £1,055,314, does he not think that his estimate of £2,000,000 extra expenditure, should 2s. Gd. per week increase be granted, rather extravagant?
Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. I did not state that there was an increase of old-age and invalid pensions to the extent of £1,600,000 in 1923-4 as compared with 1922-3. My statement was that the expenditure for the last financial year was about £1,600,000 more than the expenditure for the year 1922-3. I adhere to that statement, which is based on the following figures: - Expenditure, 1.924-0, £0,992,905; expenditure. 1922-3, £5,424,016; increase, £1,568,S89. The figures for 1922-3 and 1923-4 are not comparable, because the increase from 15s. to 17s. Gd. was effective for nine months only of the latter year.
  2. This is the estimate of the officers administering the Old-age Pensions Act. Their estimate of £1/500,000 us the cost of increasing the pension from 15s. to 17s.6d. proved to be correct, and no doubt their present estimate of the ultimate cost is equally reliable.

page 1369

QUESTION

MARRANBOY TIN FIELD

Mr NELSON:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

Whether he will lay on the Table of the House the report of Mr. J. Gr. McLaren, the Secretary to the Home and Territories Department, dealing with the Marranboy Tin Field, Northern Territory, as a result of an offer made by a Melbourne syndicate in connexion with the said field, and will he state on what authority the report is based?

Mr MARR:
NAT

– The whole of the papers including the report in question will be available at the Department of Home and Territories for inspection by the honorable member at any time convenient to himself.

page 1369

QUESTION

SISAL HEMP INDUSTRY

Mr FORDE:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What is the value of sisal hemp grown in (a) each state, and (6) Australia?
  2. Where is this hemp used in Australia, and for what purposes?
  3. What tariff protection is given to the sisal hemp industry in Australia?
Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. So far as can be ascertained, sisal hemp is not now commercially grown in Australia.
  2. Sec reply to No. 1.
  3. British preferential tariff, 10 per cent.; intermediate tariff, 15 per cent.; general tariff, 20 per cent.

page 1369

QUESTION

BUFFALO FLY PEST

Mr A GREEN:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Markets and Migration, upon notice -

  1. What is the name of the officer who has been appointed to inquire into the buffalo fly pest in the Kimberley district of Western Australia?
  2. What are his qualifications for the post?
  3. What is the amount of his remuneration?
Mr ATKINSON:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. Mr. D. Murnane.
  2. Bachelor of Veterinary Science (Melbourne University). Special training in animal parasitology. Qualified in meat inspection, animal pathology, bacteriology, animal hygiene, sanitary science, chemistry, and veterinary medicine and surgery. Has been engaged in private practice as veterinary surgeon.
  3. £600 per annum, in addition to travelling expenses.

page 1369

QUESTION

PER CAPITA PAYMENTS - INCOME TAX

Mr FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Will he supply the following information: -

  1. Total per capita payments made to each state for the financial year ended 30th June, 1925?
  2. Amount of federal income tax collected in each state for the same year ?
  3. Amount collected at the central office, showing the apportionment between the several states according to the source of the taxable income?
Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. The total per capita payments to each state for the financial year ended the 30th June, 1925, were as follows: -
  1. and (c). Any statement at the present time of the amountof income tax collected in each state for the financial year ended 30th June, 1925, would be very misleading, as amounts of tax assessed in respect of that year will continue to be received for some considerable time. It is also not possible to show the amount collected at the Central Tax Office on behalf of each state for the reason that the returns furnished to Central Office do not indicate in which state the income included in the return is derived. The return sets out the taxpayer’s income derived from all sources within Australia, and there is no necessity to impose upon the taxpayer the obligation of setting out from what state the particular items happen to be derived.

page 1370

QUESTION

COTTON BOUNTY

Mr FORDE:

asked the Prime Minis ter, upon notice -

  1. Hasa decision yet been arrived at by the Federal Government in regard to the request made by the Queensland cotton-growers for a bounty on cotton?
  2. If not, when will a decision be arrived at?
  3. Has the necessary information regarding the cotton industry yet been obtained from the Queensland Government?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– I propose to make a statement regarding the cotton-growing industry later in the day.

page 1370

QUESTION

DISMISSALS FROM POSTMASTERGENERAL’S DEPARTMENT

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that notices of dismissal from the Postmaster-General’s Department in Victoria have been given for July and August. If so -

    1. What are the numbers and the branches severally?
    2. How many are married men?
    3. How many are returned soldiers, and of these how many are married?
  2. Does he consider winter-time, with the large numbers of unemployed, the best time to dispense with their services?

Mr GIBSON:
Postmaster-General · CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA · CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are: -

  1. Yes-

    1. Two mechanics and seven junior mechanics, Electrical Engineer’s Branch; seven telegraphists, Telegraph Branch, all temporary men.
    2. Five.
    3. Nil.
  2. The department is reluctant to dispense with the services of temporary men, particularly in winter time, but owing to a number of permanent appointments having been made of officers qualified for promotion, there is no justification for the retention of the services of these temporary men.

page 1370

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE EXAMINATION

No. 881

Mr LATHAM:
KOOYONG, VICTORIA

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. How many returned soldiers passed at the Public Service Examination, No.881, held in June, 1920?
  2. How many of the successful examinees are still awaiting appointment to the Public Service ?
  3. How many clerical vacancies have occurred in Victoria since June, 1920?
  4. How many positions in the clerical division of the Service are now held by temporary officers ?
  5. How many of such officers are successful examinees at Examination No. 881?
  6. Will the Government consider the propriety of taking steps to appoint successful examinees (hitherto not appointed to permanent positions) to permanent positions in Victoria or in other states?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Four hundred and seven, of whom 243 were appointed as clerks, 32 to other positions, and 23 declined appointment or were rejected for medical reasons.
  2. One hundred and nine.
  3. Three hundred and fifty-four vacancies for clerks, 24 of which were filled by the transfer of excess officers.
  4. Eighty-seven.
  5. Nine, but practically all others who are available are employed on work not attached to permanent positions.
  6. The appointment of successful examinees cannot proceed until officers found to be in excess of requirements during the process of classification of departments, and by return to the Commonwealth from State Taxation Departments have been provided with positions where possible.

page 1370

QUESTION

OVERSEAS POSTAL MATTER

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. Will he facilitate the delivery of bona fide catalogues and samples from overseas, not for sale and duty prepaid, to the officers of the firm to whom addressed, free of all other fees excepting Customs duties?
  2. Will he look into the surcharge rate upon letters and matter from overseas insufficiently stamped, with a view to the penal amount being decreased?
Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are: -

  1. Recently, the 6d. fee imposed on parcels containing samples admitted free of Customs duty was waived. Parcels containing dutiable catalogues, samples, &c., require exceptional treatment in clearance through Customs, and the departmental fee is necessary to recompense the Department for the exceptional work entailed. Having regard to the cost of clearing imported goods through the Customs when shipped as cargo, the postal charge is very low, and I cannot at present agree to its withdrawal. 2.The rate of surcharge is governed by the provisions of the Universal Postal Convention. As from 1st October next, the date on which the Stockholm Convention comes into operation, the minimum surcharge will be reduced from 3d. to1d.
Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Will he give instructions to facilitate the early delivery of bona fide fully stamped catalogues and samples from overseas, free of all charges except Customs duties, to the firms to whom they are addressed?

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– My Department has nothing to do with the delivery of postal matter. The practice is that when postal matter is being dealt with by postal officers, any advertising matter, such as catalogues on which duty has not been prepaid> also samples, are put on one side to be dealt with by the Customs Officer stationed at the Parcels Post Office, who decides whether duty is payable. Postal officials deal with the delivery, and dutiable catalogues, &o., are released immediately the duty thereon has been paid. Provision has been made for senders of catalogues from oversea to prepay duty by means of affixing duty stamps, and this method is largely availed of.

page 1371

QUESTION

TELEGRAPH MESSENGERS

Mr McGRATH:
BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. How many telegraph messengers in Victoria are performing the duties of postmen who have not .been promoted to the position?
  2. What are the ages of telegraph messengers performing the duties of postmen, without havi ug been promoted to the position ?
Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are: -

  1. Four are temporarily employed at country offices relieving postmen absent on leave or engaged on other duties. 2. 17, 18, 10, 19 years of age respectively.

page 1371

QUESTION

POSITION OF ENGINEER (CLASS E)

Vacancy jit New South Waives.

Mr COLEMAN:

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice - 1 Is it a fact that a number of vacancies for the position of engineer (Class B) exist in ew South Wales?

  1. If so, why arc candidates who were successful at Examination No. 1265, held on 22nd and 23rd August, 1924, not appointed to these vacancies ?
Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as foi” low : -

  1. Yes; and the necessary provision was made in the Annual Draft Estimates.
  2. Provisional promotions have been approved. and will be gazetted on 13th August, J 925.

page 1371

QUESTION

SUGAR SHORTAGE IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr MANN:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

In view of recent situation created in Western Australia by shortage of sugar, will he make representations to the Sugar Control Board, with a view ito having established in that state an emergency reserve stock of at least 1,000 tons, as has already been done in Tasmania?

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– The representations of the honorable member will be submitted to the Queensland Sugar Board for consideration.

page 1371

QUESTION

GLASSES FOR OLD-AGE PENSIONERS

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Will he give consideration to the allotment of a small sum of money to the eye departments of the hospitals in the different state capitals. - for the purpose of supplying old-age pensioners with glasses?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act makes provision for payment of pensions only. Pensioners, in many cases, suffer disabilities apart front eye troubles, and if the honorable member’s suggestion were agreed to, those pensioners could reasonably claim other concessions. This is a matter of medical treatment, which really comes within the purview of the States, and for these reasons I am unable to recommend that the Commonwealth take the action indicated.

page 1371

QUESTION

TRADE TREATY WITH SOUTH AFRICA

Mr CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. What action, if any, is being taken by the Government in connexion with the old Reciprocal Trade Treaty with South Africa?
  2. Are any negotiations going on in connexion with .the matter; and, if so, can the Minister inform the House as to their nature?
  3. If negotiations are being proceeded with, are the interests of the maize-growers of Australia being carefully considered?

Mr- PRATTEN.- The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as foi” low : -

  1. The Government is at present negotiating with the South African Government with the object of substituting a new tariff agreement for that previously negotiated. Recently many alterations have been proposed in the South African tariff. This has further delayed negotiations.
  2. The nature of the negotiations cannot at present bc made public; but the honorable member may rest assured that the interests he represents will not be overlooked.
  3. iiic interests of Australian maize-growers are receiving careful consideration.

page 1372

QUESTION

POST OFFICE, ELIZABETHSTREET, MELBOURNE

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice -

Is there anything wrong with the title for the corner allotment adjoining the post office in Elizabeth-street ? If not, does he intend to continue the present eyesore, which is a disgrace to one of the chief streets in the city of Melbourne?

Mr HILL:
Minister for Works and Railways · ECHUCA, VICTORIA · CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. The Commonwealth title for the land at the corner of Elizabeth and Little Bourke streets, Melbourne, is quite in order. It is property which has never been alienated, and was transferred from the state to the Commonwealth under the provisions of the Constitution.
  2. The land is portion of the area held for postal purposes, and to meet the constant expansion of the Postal Department an extension of the Elizabeth-street post office will doubtless be effected at some future date. It is not possible to definitely state at what date the extension of the building may be warranted.

page 1372

QUESTION

LIAISON OFFICER IN LONDON

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Whether the liaison officer in London (Mr. Casey) receives information direct from the British Government?
  2. Does the High Commissioner (Sir Joseph Cook) obtain similar information?
  3. Is the information forwarded to the Commonwealth Government? If so, by whom?
  4. Why is such ‘ information not made available to Parliament?
  5. Is the liaison officer used for the purpose of conveying communications to the British Government?
  6. Has he authority to express the attitude and policy of the Commonwealth Government?
  7. If so, what is the reason for ignoring the High Commissioner?
  8. Is the liaison officer under the direct control of the High Commissioner?
  9. Have any other dominions followed the example set by the Government?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. By an arrangement entered into with the Imperial Government the liaison officer has access to confidential documents.
  2. The High Commissioner is in close relationship with the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, but the detailed work of collecting the information referred to is done by the liaison officer.
  3. Yes. -By the liaison officer-.
  4. The information which is placed at the disposal of the Commonwealth Government consists largely of confidential reports which are forwarded by the various British diplo matic representatives in different parts of the world to the Foreign Office. The British Government does not communicate this information to Parliament except at its discretion. In the circumstances, it is therefore impossible to make it available to the Commonwealth Parliament except at the discretion of the Prime Minister.
  5. No.
  6. No.
  7. In view of the preceding answer, this question does not arise.
  8. The. liaison officer is directly responsible to the Prime Minister and under the control of the High Commissioner.
  9. Not so far, to the knowledge of the Commonwealth Government.

page 1372

QUESTION

CABMEN’S TELEPHONE, CARPENTARIA-PLACE, MELBOURNE

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

  1. Will he make inquiries and inform the House why the cabmen’s shelter near Parliament House has been deprived of its telephone?
  2. Whether this shelter was not given to the cabmen by presentation many years ago?
  3. Why a taxi-cab company has a box with the telephone direct?
Mr GIBSON:
CP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow:

  1. The telephone service to the cabmen’s shelter near Parliament House was leased by the City Council as an ordinary subscriber’s service, and it was cancelled at the Council’s request early in July.
  2. I understand that the shelter, which is controlled by the City Council, was erected by public subscription.
  3. The taxi-cab company is renting a private line inder the usual conditions, and has the permission of the City Council to install the instrument box on the wall of the cabmen’s shelter.

page 1372

QUESTION

PURCHASE OF SHIPS FROM GERMANY

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it correct, as reported, that England has employed German firms to build five 10,000-ton motor ships? If so, does he intend to follow such an example?
  2. Will he request Cabinet to consider the sending of an intimation to the British Government to the effect that Australia expects England to do its duty and employ her own men to build England’s ships?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

  1. I am unable to say whether the reported placing of orders with a German shipbuilding firm by a British company is correct or otherwise, but I will gladly assure the honorable member that the Government has no intention of ordering ships through German firms.
  2. No.

page 1373

QUESTION

EXPORT OF APPLES

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– On the 9th July the honorable member for Richmond (Mr. R. Green) asked the following questions: -

  1. Is it correct, as reported on the 6th inst. from London by the Australian Press Association, under the heading of “ Apples of Poor Quality,” that in regard to a recent shipment “ most of these were fully ripe, many were poor quality, spotty, and nasty?”
  2. Will he cause an inquiry tobe made as to the quality of the consignment of apples referred to, and, if correct, what steps will he take to prevent a recurrence, which will seriously affect the good name of Australian apples?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information : -

  1. No.
  2. Inquiry has been made by cablegram of the High Commissioner, who states that although the quality of Tasmanian fruit which arrived at the end of June varied, prices up to 20s. per case wore obtained. Some few small lots brought9s. only, but the average prices were from 15s. to 19s. per case. The High Commissioner adds there is no justification for the alarming report. The newspaper report stated that the fruit in question was shipped from Tasmania, but it has been ascertained that no complaints have been received from England by Tasmanian growers.

page 1373

QUESTION

COPPER IMPORTS AND EXPORTS

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– On the 10th July the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Forde) asked the following questions : -

  1. What are the export and import figures for copper (a) manufactured, and (b) in the raw state, for the last ten years!
  2. What tariff protection is given to copper products in Australia?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information : -

page 1373

QUESTION

CINEMA FILMS

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– On the 10th July the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Seabrook) asked the following question : -

What was the total value of picture films imported into Australia in the last financial year from (a) Great Britain, (b) United States of America, (c) all other countries; together with the quantity in feet and amount of duty paid under each heading?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information : -

page 1373

QUESTION

WIRE NETTING

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– On the 3rd July the honorable member for Macquarie (Mr. Manning) asked the following questions : -

  1. What was the total quantity of wire netting manufactured in Australia during the financial year 1924-5, and what was the bonus paid by the Commonwealth on such netting?
  2. What was the total quantity of netting imported during the financial year 1924-5 from - (a) England, (b) America, (c) other countries?
  3. What was the total amount of dumping duty collected during the financial year 1924-5 on netting imported from - (o) Great Britain, (6) United States of America, (c) other countries? On what mileage were these dumping duties collected? v
  4. What was the total quantity of wire netting manufactured in Australia which was exported during the financial year 1924-5?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information: -

  1. 28,278 miles; £90,339 15s. 9d. 2. (a) 2,709 miles, (6) 1 mile, (c) 3 miles. 3. (a) £.1,123 on 314 miles. (6) nil, (c) nil.
  2. 350 males.

page 1374

IMITATION OPALS AT WEMBLEY

Mr PRATTEN:
NAT

– On the Sth July the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Blakeley) intimated that he received a telegram in the following terms from the a tall-holders at the Australian pavilion at the British Empire Exhibition: -

Birmingham jeweller selling fake opals all descriptions m’ining section Australia.

The Minister for Markets and Migration, in reply to a cabled inquiry to the Australian Commissioner, has received advice to the effect that no fake opals are shown or sold in the Australian section.

page 1374

QUESTION

INTERSTATE MIGRATION

Mr MARR:
NAT

– On the 10th July the honorable member for Melbourne (Dr. Maloney) asked - lj. What is the number of arrivals and departures to and from the several states for the years 1890 to date?’

  1. Which state has lost most of its Australianborn by departures to other states and overseas during such period?
  2. W!hat are the totals of such Australianborn departures and arrivals to and from such states during such period?

The particulars desired were not available at the time, but the attached statements furnished by the Commonwealth Statistician supply all the procurable information on the subject. In regard to Question 1, figures showing arrivals and departures separately for the years prior to 1901 are not available. Figures giving the net immigration (excess of arrivals over departures) for those years are supplied instead. In regard to 2, figures showing the departures overseas of Australianborn persons are not available. In regard to 3, net interstate migration figures are shown instead of those showing total arrivals and departures: -

The above table shows tho net result to each State from interstate migration of Australian born people. The figures were obtained by taking for any State the difference between tho number of Australian natives in its population who were born in other States and the number of its oWn1 natives who wore living in other States. For instance (from Table 1) there were in New South Wales 1,777,224 persons who were born In Australia ; of these 1,584,412 were born in New South Wales ; leaving 192.812 persons in New South Wales who were born in other States. Against this number there were in other States 113,036 persons who had been born in New South Wales, the difference of 78,876 (192,812 - 113,9361 representing the net gain of Australian born population to Now South Wales. This net gain is made up of net gains - from' Victoria, 69,326 ; from South Australia, 14,567 : from Tasmania, 13,767, modified by not losses - to Queensland, 9,117 ; to Western Australia, 7,043 : to Northern Territory, 159 ; and to Federal Capital Territory, 1,565. The next table shows the net gain or net loss to each State as at each Census from 1881 to 1021. Subsequent to the decade 1891-1901 which was disturbed by the financial crisis of tho early nineties and by the development of gold mining lu Western Australia, New South Wales has shown a continuous gain from the other States and Victoria has had a continuous loss, as has Tasmania also.] In Queensland and in Western Australia the gains have been somewhat modified during the last decade {: .page-start } page 1377 {:#debate-45} ### IMMIGRATION BILL Assent reported. {: .page-start } page 1377 {:#debate-46} ### NAVIGATION BILL Reservation reported. {: .page-start } page 1377 {:#debate-47} ### PAPERS The following papers were presented : - >European Security - Documents relating to the proposed Pact. > >League of Nations - Protocol for the Pacific Settlement of International Disputes - Correspondence with His Majesty's Government. > >Navigation Act - Second Report of the Royal Commission (New Guinea and Papua). > >Papua - Annual Report for the year 1923-4. > >The Budget, 1925-6 - Papers presented by the Honorable Earle Page, M.P., for the information of honorable members on the occasion of opening the budget of 1925-0. Ordered to he printed - Defence Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1925, Nos. 119, 122. Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired at Cranbrook, Western Australia - For Postal purposes. Meteorological Service - Report by the Commonwealth Meteorologist for the year 1923-4. Naval Defence Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1925, No. 120. New Guinea Act - Ordinances of 1925 - No. 16. - Seamen's Compensation. No. 17.- Customs Tariff. No. 18. - Aliens Registration. No. 19. - Mining. Norfolk Island Act - Ordinances of 1925 - No. 3. - Reciprocal Enforcement of Judg ments (No. 2) . No. 4. - Brands. Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Ordinances of 1925 - No. 13. - Registration of Births and Deaths. No. 14. - Aboriginals. No. 15. - Crown Lands (No. 2). Oil - The possibility of Discovery in Queens land - Report by Arthur Wade, D.Sc. (Lond.), M.I.P.T., M.I.M.M., A.R.C.Sc, F.G.S., F.G.S. (America). Papua Act - Ordinances of 1925 - No. 4. - Trust Fund Advances. No. 5. - Supplementary Appropriation (No. 3) 1924-1925; together with Supplementary Estimates (No. 3) 1924- >1925. Papuan Oil-fields - Report of the Commonwealth Representative for month of June, 1925. Post and Telegraph Act - Regulations Amended- Statutory Rules 1925, Nos. 90, 99, 102, 121, 125, 126, 127. Public Service Act - Appointments - Department of Works and Railways - E. M. Dixon, C. F. Smith, T. Thallon, T. A. Laird, 0. E. Dye, G. Whetters, H. P. Jack, A. Hunter, A. Fraser, J. A. Barrett, R. Groves, J. L. Adams, J. Torrance, G. P. Doddrell, H. W. Locke, S. W. Cook, C. F. Cook, H. Hollins, L. Thornton, E. Knox. Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules 1925, Nos. 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 131. War Service Homes Act - Land acquired at Concord, New South Wales. Wireless Telegraphy Act - Regulations Amended- Statutory Rules 1925, No. 123. {: .page-start } page 1373 {:#debate-48} ### ORDER OF BUSINESS {: #debate-48-s0 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT .- I move- Motion (by **Mr. Bruce)** agreed to - >That the sessional order governing the order of business be suspended, and that Government business be given precedence over general business for this sitting, until after the delivery of the budget statement, and that general business be proceeded with this evening for a time equivalent to that occupied by the delivery of the budget statement. {: .page-start } page 1373 {:#debate-49} ### ESTIMATES, 1925-26 Messages reported transmitting esti mates of revenue and expenditure and estimates of expenditure for additions, new works, buildings, &c, for the year ending 30th June, 1926, and recommending appropriations accordingly. {: .page-start } page 1373 {:#debate-50} ### BUDGET, 1925-26 {:#subdebate-50-0} #### In Committee of Supply: {: #subdebate-50-0-s0 .speaker-C7E} ##### Dr EARLE PAGE:
Treasurer · Cowper · CP -- Before making my budget statement, I wish to express my appreciation of the courtesy of honorable members in allowing it to take precedence of the discussion of private members business. I have the honour to present the budget for the twenty-fifth year of the Commonwealth of Australia. This occasion seems opportune, not merely to examine the transactions of the past year and to present the Estimates of the cur rent year, but also to review the cost of federation to the people of Australia. On. each of the two preceding occasions on which it has been my privilege to present a budget to this committee, I endeavoured to make the financial statement as simple as possible to the taxpayers and the electors generally. In this budget I have made certain further alterations to simplify the presentation of the accounts, so that, unaided, every one will be able to realize the exact position both of the Commonwealth finances as a whole and of each separate activity and department. {: .page-start } page 1373 {:#debate-51} ### FINANCIAL YEAR, 1924-5 On the 3rd July I gave to the House the approximate details of the receipts and expenditure for the past year. The final figures show very little alteration, and are as follow : - After providing for special expenditure out of the surplus of previous years, the surplus remaining at the beginning of 1924-5 was £1,591,153. Adding this amount to the surplus of that year, the accumulated surplus at 30th June, 1925, remaining to be allocated was £4,609,529. That amount has been disposed of in the following way : - {:#subdebate-51-0} #### Reduction of Debt An amount of £1,500,000 was paid to the. National Debt Sinking Fund Commissioners to be applied to debt redemption, . it being considered by the Government as proper that, the revenue being in excess of the needs of the year, a substantial contribution should be made towards the reduction of the national debt. This is a special payment, and is in addition to statutory obligations in this regard. I shall refer to this matter at a later stage in the budget. {:#subdebate-51-1} #### Naval Construction It was proposed in the last budget to use £1,000,000 of the accumulated surplus for naval construction. This has not been appropriated, and it is now proposed to appropriate a total of £1,500,000 for the purposes of naval construction. This will make an amount of £3,500,000 appropriated for the building of cruisers, submarines, seaplanes, &c. {:#subdebate-51-2} #### Main Roads Development Out of the surplus a sum of £750,000 is being made available for main roads development. During the previous two years, a sum of £1,000,000 was appropriated, of which approximately £650,000 has been spent. It is anticipated that the balance ' unspent, together with £750,000 now to be made available, will be as much as the states oan use effectively during the present year. The policy inaugurated during the last two years of aiding the states in developing new country by the construction of main access roads has been justified, and will be continued. Some hundreds of miles of substantial roads - have been constructed, which will materially assist settlers in marketing their products, obtaining supplies, and generally ameliorating the conditions of residence in new country. The Government is carefully considering the whole question. of a national main roads policy which shall take into account the transformation brought about by modern invention. A comprehensive policy which will, ensure a just distribution of the costs of constructing, perfecting, and maintaining the highways of Australia will be brought before the country. {:#subdebate-51-3} #### Residue of Surplus Provision of £100,000 is being made out of the surplus effectively to commence the reorganization of the Institute of Science and Industry. It is expected that £50,000 of this provision will be expended during the present financial year. A further amount of £100,000 is to be set aside for prospecting for oils and precious metals. The balance of the surplus remaining, amounting to £659,529, though technically taken to trust fund for the payment of invalid and old-age pensions, really forms a surplus of cash to meet the fluctuating requirements of the Treasury. {: .page-start } page 1379 {:#debate-52} ### A QUARTER-CENTURY RETROSPECT The passage of a quarter of a century since the consummation of federation and the experience of 24 complete financial years of federation render the present an opportune time for" reviewing the additional cost that federation can justly be said to have entailed to the people of Australia. In making this estimate of the additional cost, no account is taken of the savings that have been rendered possible through the unified federal control of the great Departments of Defence and Customs, and- the business undertaking of the Post Office. To ascertain what additional expenditure has been actually caused by federation, it is proper to eliminate all expenditure which is being borne by the Commonwealth, but which, without federation, must have been met by the states. The capitation payments to the states, the special Tasmanian grant and grants to states for road construction, axe in no sense expended by the Commonwealth; the money is merely handed over for expenditure by the states. Interest on loans raised by the Commonwealth for the states is included in the expenditure of the Commonwealth because of a bookkeeping necessity, but it is expended by the Commonwealth on behalf of the states. Dealing with actual Commonwealth expenditure, the war- expenditure, which last year represented nearly 51 per cent, of the total expenditure out of revenue, must first be eliminated. This is an obligation! of the people which is being met through the agency of the Commonwealth Treasury. Had there been no federation of states, this expenditure must still have been met by the taxpayers through the Treasuries of the several states. Federation has simply shifted the cost of the whole of the transferred services, including Post Office, Defence, Customs, Quarantine, Lighthouses, Patents, &c, from the states to the Commonwealth. Invalid and old-age pensions would have remained an obligation of the states. Public opinion would have compelled a motherhood endowment, either by means of a maternity allowance or in some other form. All of these services would have been carried out with six separate central administrations instead of one. This would have meant additional cost, and probably reduced efficiency because of the absence of a common policy and uniform methods. It may here be instanced that in the last complete year before federation the expenditure of the Trade and Customs Department in the collection of revenue represented, in New South Wales, a cost of £3 2s. lOd. for each £100, and in Victoria a cost of £3 3s. Id., whilst last year the cost to the Commonwealth was only £1 8s. 9d. per cent. Had there been no federation of states the burden of the Northern Territory would still be borne by the State of South Australia, and the east-west railway must have been constructed and worked by state authorities. Moreover, the health activities of the Commonwealth would have fallen to the states. The states, to have enjoyed the increased prosperity which Australia has had in the 25 years of federation, would have been compelled to adopt the Commonwealth's policy of bounties to producers, to carry the share of the cost of immigration which has been borne by the Commonwealth, and to render assistance in the overseas marketing of the surplus production. I have taken the expenditure" of the first complete financial year after federation 1901-2, an intermediate year 1912-13, and the last year 1924-25. After adjusting the figures by deducting the expenditure which would have remained to the states had there been no federation, I find that the expenditure directly due to federation is as follows : - It must be remembered that the reduced purchasing power of the pound in the period under review is reflected in the increased expenditure of the later years. The measure of this increase is supplied by the Statistician's index number of wholesale prices, which, in 1901-2 was 974; in 1912-13, 1,170; whilst by 1924-25 it had risen to 1,885. Had the index number of 1901-2 remained constant, then the per capita cost of expenditure directly due to federation would have been : - The sense of national unity, the sentiment of Australian citizenship, the continental outlook, the freedom of trade throughout the whole continent, and theadded safety that federation brings are surely worth this moderate expenditure per head. We would not, during that 25 years, have made so great an advance in material progress and national ideals if we had remained separated. {: .page-start } page 1380 {:#debate-53} ### THE NEW YEAR In framing a budget, the first 'step is to ascertain the lowest possible amount of expenditure which is consistent with proper administration and with the due provision of services which the people properly demand. The expenditure must then be analysed to determine the amount of the ordinary recurring expenditure to be found out of revenue and the amount of capital expenditure to be met out of loan. Tho next step is to estimate the amount of revenue that might be expected if levies upon the people were continued at . the same rate as those of the previous, year. The surplus or deficiency of the revenue as thus indicated has a particular bearing upon the budget, for only at this stage can the policy of the Government in regard to taxation properly be determined. The natural order of the several steps is that which I shall take in. dealing with the new year. I shall deal first with the expenditure. {:#subdebate-53-0} #### Simplified Presentation or Accounts As previously indicated, I have addressed myself to the task of further simplifying this year the presentation of the accounts to Parliament, and I hope these changes will meet with the approval of honorable members. Hitherto, for example, we have included the cost of business departments with that of general administration. The result of this was confusing. There is a vast distinction between business undertakings and . the administrative functions of government. According to the former method, an increase of expenditure justified by a much larger earning of revenue might, by those who had not the time or the opportunity to examine the statements- closely, easily be construed as an indication of extravagance or bad management. To properly differentiate the various activities of government, I have on this occasion divided the Estimates into three parts, namely : - Part 1. - Departments and services other than business undertakings and Territories of the Commonwealth j Part 2. - Business undertakings; Part 3. - Territories of the Commonwealth. This new grouping will facilitate a study of the finances, and will show the position of each group and its constituent parts in bold relief. By this means, the burden of the Government railway enterprises and Territories will be evident at a glance. Part 1 has been subdivided into five main categories, each of which brings together related expenditure. The first deals with all services connected with defence, repatriation, and war; the second with special appropriations; the third with the ordinary votes of departments; the fourth with' miscellaneous services; and the fifth with additions, new works, and buildings. This presentation enables the committee to see at a glance the component details' of the total expenditure. It will be. noticed that, of the total of £56,619,283 under this head, the first subdivision of war, repatriation,- and defence absorbs £33,465,246. {: .page-start } page 1381 {:#debate-54} ### PART I Departments and Services other than Business Undertakings and Territories - These increases and decreases may now briefly be explained. Interest on Loans and Sinking Fund. Three increases will be seen above. First, interest on loans raised for the states has been increased by reason of further borrowings carried out by the Commonwealth for State purposes at the request of the Loan Council. This is recouped to the Commonwealth by the states, and a corresponding increase will be found on the revenue side. Secondly, interest and sinking fund on war loans will cost more this year because the loan of £67,000,000 is being renewed at 5½ per cent., subject to Commonwealth taxation, whereas previously the rate was 4½ per cent, free of Commonwealth taxation. The third increase is due to the payments under the head of other interest and sinking fund. These are greater by reason of the borrowings of the Commonwealth for Defence, Murray River waters scheme, immigration, construction of ships, lighthouses, lighthouse vessels, Commonwealth offices, laboratories for Health Department. {:#subdebate-54-0} #### Invalid and Old-Age Pensions Honorable members will remember that, following the proposals made in my budget speech in 1923, the rate of invalid and old-age pensions was raised from 30s. to 35s. a fortnight, to bring the pension to a basis corresponding to the increase in the cost of living since the original payments were begun. The Government at that time stated that the existing system did not fully satisfy the needs of the community, did not remove that sense of insecurity which haunts great numbers of people throughout their life, because of the fear of accident, sickness, unemployment, and a destitute old age after a life of toil. The Government therefore proposed a royal commission to examine the whole matter. A royal commission was appointed accordingly to report on National Insurance, and has now been sitting for two yeans. It has presented an interim report which indicates that during the present session its researches will have been sufficiently advanced to enable the Government to bring down a national insurance scheme, at any rate in connexion with old-age and sickness, even if the research into the question of unemployment is not completed. Information at present in the hands of the Government shows that a payment of 20s. per week will be found to be that most closely approximating the requirements and conditions of a national insurance scheme. The Government considers that it would be an anomaly for existing invalid and old-age pensions to be kept on a different scale. Provision therefore is being made in the Estimates for the increase of invalid and old-age pensions to £1 per week, simultaneously with the passage of such portions of the national insurance proposals as may be approved by Parliament. The Government desires to dispel the fear of members of friendly societies that some action may be taken to hinder the good work they are doing in the portion of the field that they cover. It will be remembered that the Government specially asked the commission to consider the possibility of associating the present machinery of friendly societies with national insurance administration so that administrative costs might be kept down. In view of the imminence of this legislation, and in view of the removal, in 1923, of the anomalies then existing in the pensions laws no further action in this connexion beyond the increase mentioned will be taken until after the consideration of the proposals for national insurance. {:#subdebate-54-1} #### Defence The additional provision of £198,729 for defence is necessary to maintain the existing forces on their nucleus basis. When I introduced last year's budget I explained that the Government had given anxious thought to the question of defence, and I then outlined a five years' programme. That programme is being actively pursued by improving the Navy, the Army, the Air Services, and by enlarging the organization of the munitions supply in such a manner as to make a definite advance in the national policy of selfcontainment for defence. Contracts have been let for two *new* cruisers and twoocean-going submarines. The Government has decided, in addition, to construct a seaplane carrier, and to subsidize the construction of a floating dock in Australia. Steps are also being taken to provide depots for the oil which the cruisers will burn as fuel. A survey of the Barrier Reef is well in Hand. In order to provide for the larger ships, the submarine service, and the seaplane carrier, arrangements are being made for increasing the personnel, both .officers and men. One year's advance has now been made towards the goal of that five years' programme which aims at the provision of a supply of field artillery ammunition, the supply of gas masks for units of the field army, technical stores for equipment of field artillery, and a nucleus of tanks and anti-aircraft artillery. We now have factories capable of making cordite, rifles, and small arms ammunition. Provision is being made for the establishment of nucleus factories for making guns and carriages up to 4.5-inch, also artillery ammunition, including cartridge cases, fuses, primers, detonators and high explosives, and machine guns and pistols. The erection of the aircraft depot at Laverton, in Victoria, has been rapidly pushed ahead. Plans for the provision of units in New South Wales, reported upon by the Public Works Committee, have received parliamentary approval. The permanent nucleus of a landplane squadron, together with the necessary machines to be used in training the Citizen Forces, has now been established at Richmond, New South Wales. A similar landplane squadron for Victoria is in process of formation. Machines have been ordered for one flight of amphibians to be used for co-operation with the Navy and for training the Air Force personnel required for the seaplane carrier. The Civil Aviation Branch has continued to progress. Its function is to foster the development of aviation in Australia in its civil and economic sphere. The aggregate length of aerial routes sited and prepared is now approximately 4,670 miles. The aerodromes and emergency landing grounds now number 128. {:#subdebate-54-2} #### Grants to States The additional amount of the capitation payments to the states is due to the increase in the population. {:#subdebate-54-3} #### Tasmania -Grant The Tasmania' grant has decreased this year owing to the fact that last year the Commonwealth collected £61,656 as tax on Tattersalls. This amount was paid to the state, but no corresponding payment has to be made this year as Tasmania is now collecting that tax. There is a further decrease of £17,000, this being the amount of the statutory annual reduction which, cumulatively, will cause the special grant to disappear in five years. A royal commission is inquiring into the financial position of Western Australia. Until its report has been received, it will be impossible to indicate the attitude of the Government as to any grant to that state. {:#subdebate-54-4} #### War and Repatriation The estimates for the war and repatriation services are increased by £50,545. £25,078 additional is required in respect of graves of soldiers on the Continent of Europe,, a further sum of £15,333 is needed for the administration of war service homes/ and war pensions are estimated to cost an additional sum of £2.1,774. These several increases are set off by reductions of various kinds, the net increase being £50,545, as already stated. Decreases in Departmental Votes. The ordinary votes of departments show a decrease of £14,754. {:#subdebate-54-5} #### Health Department During the last financial year the Department of Health continued to perform much valuable work in association with the states, including an investigation into lead poisoning at Port Pirie and silicosis in sandstone workers in Sydney. It has given expert advice to the South Australian Government concerning the sewerage of Adelaide. The control of the hookworm campaign has been transferred from the administration of the International Health Board (Rockefeller Foundation) to the Commonwealth Department of Health in association with the states concerned. Laboratories have been opened at Kalgoorlie and Port Pirie. The subsidy provided by Parliament for the investigation of cancer has been distributed to aid research work at the Sydney, Melbourne, and Adelaide Universities, and at the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories. Appointments are being made of expert officers to supervise the administration of animal and plant "quarantine. . The Royal Commission on Health, appointed last year, is expected to report before the end of the present calendar year. lt will not be possible to deal fully with any recommendations that may be made until next financial year, but such steps as appear to- be immediately practicable will be taken. The recommendations of the commission are expected to form a basis for a progressive national health policy, which will place Australia in a leading place in the world as regards health administration. {:#subdebate-54-6} #### Summary of Expenditure As the Estimates and budget-papers contain full details of the estimated expenditure of the year, it is unnecessary that I should go into further detail here. Any necessary explanations will be given by the several Ministers when the items come up for approval. Into this Part I. of the Estimates, which deals with departments and services other than Territories and business undertakings, there are brought the surpluses and deficiencies of the other two parts, as the net deficiency of these two parts must be met out of general receipts. The deficiency on Part II. will later appear as £436,542., being made up of a deficit on railways of £530,107 and a surplus of £93,565 on the PostmasterGeneral's Department. The deficit on the Territories of £402,761 makes the total net deficiency from Parts 2 and 3 £839,303, which must be added to the expenditure already mentioned, £56,619,283. The total expenditure, therefore, which the Treasurer must provide for out of taxation and other receipts in the present year is £57,458,586. Before examining the resources' available to meet this- expenditure, I shall give a statement of the position of the business undertakings and of the territories to indicate how their balances of expenditure are made up. {: .page-start } page 1384 {:#debate-55} ### PART 2.- BUSINESS UNDERTAKINGS Postmaster-General' s Department. Our greatest business effort is the PostmasterGeneral's Department. More than any other department, it is closely related with the homes and the businesses of the people. It is an activity in which the de- **Dr.** *Earle Page.* manda of the people themselves constantly must be kept in view. As it is a monopoly it should aim at providing all due facilities. For this reason the department must not be starved. For this reason, too, the Government is not able to effect savings by discontinuing services. Expenditure can be kept down only by seeing that necessary services! are efficiently performed at the- lowest possible cost. This the Government is consistently endeavouring to do. Last year the revenue expenditure of the department amounted to £10,288,437. This year the estimated requirements are £10,616,435, representing an increase of £327,998. The increase would have been much greater but for the1 fact that the Government has now approved of charging to loan a portion of the salaries and wages of permanent employees who are engaged upon capital construction. Hitherto all those salaries and wages have been debited to revenue account. This change is inevitable because the capital works of the department are now of such magnitude that to- continue to pay out of revenue for the staff engaged would impose an intolerable burden on the finance of the particular year. Comparing the expenditure chargeable this year with that which occurred last year, the following increases are observable : - The reasons for the increase of the expenditure of the Postmaster-General's Department may be given as expansion of business, increased rates of arbitration awards, additional payments to state and Commonwealth railways, growth of interest and sinking fund, extra cost of maintenance of the greater assets of the department, and demand for new telephone connexions. A capital expenditure of £6,000,000 is being provided for this year out of loans. "When it is remembered that a capital programme of £9,000,000, spread over three years, was thought to be a generous provision three years ago, the expansion that has now to be arranged can be realized. The following table shows the capital expenditure in five years : - The total expenditure out of revenue and loan in 1920-21 amounted to £8,252,634. The corresponding expenditure estimated for 1925-26 is £16,616,435. The estimated revenue of the department for the new year is £10,710,000, which is an increase of £624,971 over the receipts of the previous year. This surplus is purely on a cash basis. The department ought to be charged with interest and sinking fund on deficits of earlier years, which have been met out of other revenue, as well as on loans which have been redeemed. If this were done the surplus of £93,565 would be converted into a deficiency of £244,521. The post office is not being used as a taxing machine. During 1924-25, new telephone subscribers numbering 45,514 were provided for. It is expected that 60,000 new subscribers will be connected in the present year. During the year just closed, 47,000 miles of trunk and telephone wire were erected. The work of the present year is expected to result in the erection of 48,000 miles. The total number of telephone subscribers now is 364,000. It is expected that the revenue obtained from current development immediately will be sufficient to cover working costs, interest and sinking fund. The telegraph and trunk line services are being conducted at a loss. The expansion of the services evidences the progressive nature of the Government's policy, which aims at bringing Australian conveniences up to the level of the best in other countries. {:#subdebate-55-0} #### Commonwealth Railways {:#subdebate-55-1} #### East-West Railway The expenditure on the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta railway is estimated at £411,575. Last year, the expenditure amounted to £405,796. Its revenue receipts are expected to reach £260,000. It will be noticed that there is an estimated deficit of £151,575. {:#subdebate-55-2} #### Port Augusta to Oodnadatta Railway The estimated expenditure is £285,260, as against £172,557 in the last year. The estimated increase is due to the fact that the loss on working by the state has to be recouped to the state for a period of eighteen months. From 1st January next, the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner is to work the line. If the old arrangement had continued, only one year's loss would have been debitable in these accounts. Moreover, a total of £75,000 now appears on . the Estimates as representing the expenditure for direct working by the Commonwealth during a half-year. In former years, this gross expenditure was not shown in the Estimates at all, but was provided for by the state by way of deduction from revenue, only the loss coming into our accounts. In this transition period, therefore, the figures show an increase which is apparent and not real. The true position of the railway is : - Under direct -management by the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, it is expected that the loss in working will be reduced. {: .page-start } page 1386 {:#debate-56} ### PART 3.- TERRITORIES OF THE COMMONWEALTH {:#subdebate-56-0} #### Northern Territory - General Services The cost of these for the present year is estimated at £144,172, as compared with a revenue of £29,000. The deficit which has to be borne by the general taxpayer of Australia therefore is £115,172. {:#subdebate-56-1} #### Federal Capital As the finances are arranged by the Federal Capital Commission itself, the revenue and expenditure of the Territory are not now shown in our Estimates. That is not to say, however, that we are at no expense with regard to the Territory. We have to provide £142,230, that representing £92,230 interest and sinking fund on loan expenditure, also a sum of £50,000, which is the estimated cost this year of transferring staffs from Melbourne. Activities at the Federal Capital have been continued in accordance with the Government's policy and with the resolution of the House that the next Parliament shall meet at the Seat of Government. In December last the first sale of leases of land was carried out by public auction. Altogether 147 leases were then sold, and the capital value upon which the lease rents have been based amounted in all to £60,340.' In rates per foot, the capital values thus ascertained reached from £6 to £58 lis. for shopping areas and from 10s. 6d. to £3 4s. for residential areas. Since the date of the auction, 35 additional leases have been sold. The Federal Capital Commission is now carrying on a programme of works to enable the government to be transferred under the secretariat scheme on 1st June, 1926. At the request of the Government, a scheme is being investigated for a second intermediate stage, by which it will be possible for all departments to function primarily at Canberra a year later. The number of workmen employed by the Commission at the close of the financial year was 2,292. The accounts of the Federal Capital for last financial year show - {:#subdebate-56-2} #### Other Territories There is a provision of £67,396 for Papua, £52,000 of this amount being for trade and administration subsidies, and £15,000 for oil investigation. £10,000 is provided as a grant to the administration of the Mandated Territory of New Guinea, and £3,500 as a grant to the Norfolk Island administration. Territories of the Commonwealth. Taking all the territories of the Commonwealth together we find that the total estimated expenditure is £431,761, against which there is revenue amounting to only £29,000. The deficit under the heading of Part 3 therefore is £402,761, which is taken into account in estimating the amount of revenue which must be raised by taxation. {: .page-start } page 1386 {:#debate-57} ### THE ESTIMATED REVENUE FOR THE NEW YEAR, The expenditure thus to be met out of revenue this year is £57,458,586, made up as follows: - After considering this expenditure, the Government finds itself able to make concessions on most heads of direct and indirect taxation, in Customs duties, land tax, income tax. and entertainments tax. Revenue .from Customs and Excise. The Government intends to submit to Parliament suggestions for such relief from indirect taxation as will be felt by every one in the community. At the same time, certain adjustments are to be made in the tariff in order to make some protective duties more effective. These will ultimately involve loss of revenue, but this year may produce a slight increase. On the whole, the revenue from Customs and Excise is not expected to be greatly affected, and the estimate of this revenue is £37,200,000, approximately tb.o same as that received last year. The relief from indirect taxation to be given this year is additional to remissions of duty, amounting to £430,000, in the previous two years, in respect of sulphur, wire netting, traction engines, galvanized iron, *&c.* {:#subdebate-57-0} #### Land Tax The estimate of revenue from land tax for the present year is £2,800,000, as compared with the actual collections of last year of £2,519,711. The reasons for the excess collections last year above the £2,030,127 collected in 1923-4, and the further increase this year, are twofold - that the arrears of taxation of freehold land have been considerably reduced, and that the tax payable on Crown leaseholds is appearing in the collections of these two later years. The amount of land tax outstanding at the close of the last five years is': - The bulk of this amount shown as outstanding represents the land tax assessed on Crown leases which became taxable for the first time in 1914. The collection of this tax was suspended in 1917-18, pending investigation by a Royal Commission. As a consequence of this suspen sion, and until September, 1923, when Parliament authorized its collection, no request for payment was made by the Taxation Commissioner. Early in 1924, collection was again suspended by the Taxation Commissioner pending the receipt of a report from the Royal Commission as to a just basis of assessment. Immediately on receipt of this report, the Government ordered the collection of the tax, which is now proceeding on the basis recommended by that Commission. In 1924-25, the Commissioner collected approximately £100,000 of the tax assessed iu respect of Crown leaseholds, and he informs me that the work of further collection of this tax is being actively carried on by the Department. The due date of payment of land tax in each year is about the 15th June. By the close of the financial year, the amounts of tax then outstanding for that particular year would represent tax outstanding for only two weeks. The annual report of the Commissioner of Taxation will, it is expected, be presented to Parliament during the month of October. It is proposed to ask for new legislation to constitute a Valuation Board of Review to enable taxpayers who are dissatisfied with the valuations applied to their land by the. Department of Taxation to have the valuations reviewed. The constitution of such a board has been recommended by two royal commissions. The Government considers that it will afford a more expeditious and economical method of settling disputes than is now available. , An opportunity will be taken also to make land exempt from tax when it is used exclusively by any club for cricket, football, or other athletic exercises or amusement, provided the club is not carried on for- the personal profit of individual members. {:#subdebate-57-1} #### Income Taxation The history of the various alterations in the rates of federal taxation will be of interest to honorable members. The' first federal income tax law was passed in 1915, and tax was collected for the year 1915-16. In the next year there was an increase of 25 per cent, in the rates. In 1918-19, a supertax of 30 per cent, was levied. With this addition the tax collected represented an increase of 62i per cent. on the original rates. The peak was reached in 1920-21, when an additional supertax of 5 per cent, was imposed. In all, the rates then charged were 70$ per cent, above the original. In 1922-23 there was a reduction of slightly more than 10 per cent., which brought the excess over the original rates down to 53£ per cent. In 1924-25 there was another reduction of a little more than 10 per cent., resulting in rates equal' to only 38 per cent, above the original. In addition to the percentage reduction made this year, the amount of non-taxable income was raised to £300. The Government now proposes to give relief to individual taxpayers to the very substantial amount of 12£ per cent. This further reduction brings the tax to the original rates plus 20 per cent., whereas the rates in 1920-21 were 7 Of per cent, above the original rates. The reduction will bring our rates of income tax this year to less than at any time during the war, except during the first year of the tax. All these- concessions have been arranged for by the Government notwithstanding that the war expenditure chargeable to revenue is now much greater than in the first year of tax. The figures are - The loss of income tax due to the reduction to be made in this year is estimated at £1,400,000. ' Although the peak year of rates was 1920-21, the full effect was not apparent in the revenue collected until the following year because considerable arrears existed at the end of 1920-21. In 1921-22, the income tax amounted to £16,790,682. It is estimated that the total will be reduced to £9,650,000 in 1925-26. **Dr.** Earle *Page.* The income tax' per head has thus been reduced from £3 0s. lid. in 1921-22 to £1 12s. 2d. in 1925-26. The reduction is equal to 47 per cent. The advisability of the elimination of duplication by the Commonwealth and the states of income taxation is becoming more appreciated by the public. The very close approximation of the amount of income tax collected by the Commonwealth from individuals to the amount of the capitation payments made to the states brings the realization of this desirable reform within measurable distance. The following table shows the arrears of income tax at the end of each of the last five years, and indicates improvement in this regard : - I am advised by the Income Tax Commissioner that he expects a very substantial reduction in outstandings at the end of the present financial year. The collection of federal income tax is being carried out in conjunction with the several State taxation offices. The amalgamation of federal and state income tax offices, arranged by the Government in 1923, has resulted in a reduction of 642 in the number of employees and in an annual saving of £141,000. The Government is asking, in a bill already before the House, for legislative authority to enable the Commissioner of Taxation to maintain the results of the actions taken by him in consequence of an announcement made in Parliament by the Treasurer on the 2nd October, 1922. The Treasurer then stated, in effect, that >tax would not be collected, under the Income Tax Assessment Act 1915-21, upon the value of bonus shares distributed to shareholders of companies during any year affected by that act, and paid for out of accumulated trading profits upon which the company had paid federal income tax. The Treasurer also announced the intention to make refunds of any tax which had been collected under that act on any similar shares, provided application for the refund was made within a period of six months from the date of the announcement. Another bill is also before the Parliament to reconstitute the Income Tax Appeal Board. Honorable members will recollect that a recent decision of the High Court rendered the board ineffective. The bill also contains a provision to alter the method of assessing cooperative companies in such a manner as to tax them on undistributed profits only. War-time Profits Tax. The tax does not apply to profits derived after the 30th June, 1919. The department is endeavouring to complete the work under the act as soon as possible. It has been found desirable, in order to prevent injustice, to amend the Wartime Profits Tax Assessment Act 1924 so as to extend its provisions to those pastoral businesses which were discovered, after the passing of the 1924 act, to be liable to taxation. These businesses, then found to be taxable, were not covered by the 1924 act, and their assessments involve the valuation of live stock at market values. The 1924 act permitted similar businesses to select . values very much lower than market values. The Government considers that all pastoral businesses should be treated in a uniform manner for purposes of this tax. In view of the necessity to legislate specially for stock valuations in cases assessed after the passing of the 1924 act, the Government considers it will be fair to allow further time for making elections as to basis of valuation in all cases in which an election has not previously been made. {:#subdebate-57-2} #### Entertainments Tax A reduction of entertainments tax is proposed this year to give relief to taxpayers. The previous reduction raised the exemption to admissions of less than 1s. This year, the Government will submit a bill to provide that no tax will be payable where the price of admission is less than 2s. 6d. The loss of revenue arising from this concession is estimated at £360,000, and is being granted so that the reductions of taxation provided in this year may be evenly distributed throughout the whole community. This concession automatically will remove irritation which has always been evident in relation 'to the tax on admissions to minor entertainments of a semipublic character. {:#subdebate-57-3} #### Note Issue Profits The profits from the note issue taken into revenue are estimated this year at £958,000, that being a reduction of £320,000. This reduction arises out of a decision of the Government to submit to Parliament a bill to establish aRural Credits Department of the Commonwealth Bank, and to hypothecate one-quarter of the profits of the note issue towards the capital of this department. {: .page-start } page 1389 {:#debate-58} ### SUMMARY OF POSITION The total revenue that the Commonwealth expects to receive from all sources, including interest on loans raised for the states, is £57,574,300, which, after deduction of the total expenditure of £56,619,283, will leave a surplus of £955,017 in Part 1 of the Estimates. The final position of the Commonwealth at the end of the financial year then will be- To this surplus there should be added £659,529 brought forward from the previous year. The accumulated surplus at 30th June, 1926, may, therefore, be expected to reach £775,243. {: .page-start } page 1389 {:#debate-59} ### LOAN EXPENDITURE Having dealt with the matters affecting the revenue account, we must now give attention to the expenditure to be met out of loans. The total expenditure under this head in 1924-25 was £7,317,370. ' We estimate the requirements of this year at £11,105,284, an increase of £3,787,914. The chief items of proposed expenditure in 1925-26 are:- {:#subdebate-59-0} #### Post Office Of these items, the Post Office expenditure, already mentioned, is the largest. The demand for telephones continues unabated - in fact, it is actually increasing. There is no possibility' of meeting their cost out of revenue. Assets will be created for this amount which will provide both interest and sinking fund, and in this case the sinking fund is of the substantial amount of11/2 per cent. {:#subdebate-59-1} #### Railways {:#subdebate-59-2} #### Uniform Gauge The next largest item is £1,300,000 for the Grafton to Brisbane railway. This amount is being provided towards the first step of the unification of railway gauges, and is in accordance with the agreement ratified by Parliament last year with New South Wales and Queensland. {:#subdebate-59-3} #### New Construction The amount of £1,045,000 for Commonwealth railways is to provide for the construction of the railway from Port Augusta to Alice Springs, and from Emungalan to Daly Waters, in the Northern Territory. The latter proposal has already been approved by Parliament. The former will be brought before Parliament at an early date. In addi tion an amount is included for construction between Port Augusta and Adelaide. {:#subdebate-59-4} #### The River Murray Agreement The expenditure to date on the works covered by the River Murray Agreement amounts approximately to £3,500,000, a quarter share of which sum has been provided by the Commonwealth Government. Three weirs and locks have been completed, and five weirs and locks and the two storages are in course of construction. It is expected that the Lake Victoria storage, which will supply the needs of South Australia, will be completed within a few months. The Hume dam, which is being constructed so as to enable the capacity of the reservoir to be ultimately increased to 2,000,000 acre-feet, if so agreed upon, is progressing satisfactorily. Provision is being made to enable the development of hydro-electric energy at the reservoir. {:#subdebate-59-5} #### Wire Netting In view of the heavy loss to national production caused by the rabbit and dingo pests, the Government has decided to introduce legislation to enable landholders to obtain money on easy conditions for the purpose of erecting vermin proof fencing more rapidly than would otherwise be possible. Assistance will be given by means of long-term loans to the states, who will deal direct with the landholders in such matters as making advances and collecting interest. It is proposed to lend £3,000,000 in all, spread over six years, the first instalment of £500,000 being made available this financial year. By making substantial interest concessions to the states, it is expected that a permanent fund will be built up in order that the states, without further assistance from the Commonwealth, will be able to make adequate advances in future to landholders to combat these pests. {:#subdebate-59-6} #### Soldier . Land Settlement In considering the question of loans it is proper to fully state the attitude of the Government towards the position of soldier land settlement in the various states. When the Commonwealth and the states agreed to co-operate in carrying out a scheme of soldier land settlement, the Commonwealth undertook to raise the necessary moneys, and to lend them to the states at rates of interest corresponding to the cost of the moneys to the Commonwealth. The states were to find the land, and were to have charge of the work of settlement. As substantial interest concessions were to be granted to the soldier settlers, and as the states had to face other losses under the scheme, the Commonwealth agreed to share the burden by reducing the rate of interest on each loan by 2 per cent, per annum during the first five years of its currency. This concession was also allowed in respect of certain moneys raised by the states themselves with the consent of the Commonwealth. The total cost to the Commonwealth of this concession will be £4,740,699. In addition, the Commonwealth paid sustenance allowances, pending productivity of farms, totalling £501,561, and payments of this character still continue. The Commonwealth has thus contributed, to date, more than £5,000,000 towards soldier land settlement. As it was evident the losses of the states will be greater than at first anticipated, the Government has considered what further assistance should be given to the states so as to provide for the equitable distribution between Commonwealth and states of the total losses. After a careful review of the position, the Government decided that it is proper now to write off £5,000,000 of the loans made by the Commonwealth to the states for this purpose. This will bring the Commonwealth's share of the losses up to more than £10,000,000, and such a contribution from the Commonwealth will probably be sufficient to cover more than half the total losses involved in the soldier land settlement scheme, and will enable the states to deal justly with all settlers in difficulty. After careful consideration of the various factors, it is proposed to apportion one-third of this additional concession *oi* £5,000,000 amongst the states on -"he basis of the number of soldiers settled; one-third on the basis of the total expenditure of the states; and one-third on the basis of the expenditure on advances to settlers. This method is proposed as being the most equitable. On the basis referred to, and using the figures as at the 30th June, 1924, the indebtedness of the various states to the Commonwealth will be reduced as under : - It is proposed that each state's share of the £5,000,000 shall be divided in proportion to the amounts owing by the state to the Commonwealth at the various rates of interest, and that definite portions of the debt at the various rates of interest shall be written off accordingly ; the adjustment to be made on the 1st October, 1925, that being the half-yearly date for settlement of these loan transactions. The annual losses of the states will diminish as settlement progresses, and after the lapse of a few years the only losses should be those due to administrative costs, and to charging the soldier settlers 5 per cent, interest on moneys which cost more than 5 per cent. The Commonwealth contribution of £10,000.000 is designed primarily to meet the losses in the early years. As regards losses in later years, the Government considers the position will be fairly met if the rate of interest payable by the states to the Commonwealth be reduced to 5 per cent, per annum after the 31st De'cember, 1930, that rate to apply until the loans are repaid. It is proposed, therefore, that the present rates of interest shall be payable until 31st December, 1930, in respect of the balance of the states' indebtedness, and that the rates be reduced to 5 per cent, from the 31st December, 1930. The formal agreements covering the existing arrangements in regard to soldier land settlement have not been signed by the respective governments. This is not a satisfactory position, and therefore the Government considers that the present proposals should be conditional on the states at once signing the original agreements amended in accordance with the proposals herein set out, and suitably altered to meet the conditions now existing in regard to soldier land settlements. When duly signed, Parliament will be asked to ratify the agreements. {: .page-start } page 1392 {:#debate-60} ### NATIONAL DEBT The loan expenditure of the Commonwealth in recent years has been almost exclusively limited to developmental and reproductive works. At the same time, the war debt has been steadily and systematically reduced through the sinking fund and by substantial contributions from revenue surpluses. The gross debt at the 30th June, 1925, was - To ascertain the net debt, there may be deducted - From these statements, the improvement in the Commonwealth position may be seen at a glance. The Commonwealth of Australia to-day owes £22,000,000 less war debt than it did three years ago. Its net debt on all counts for specifically Commonwealth purposes is £4,000,000 less than three years ago, despite the fact that the Post Office alone has created over £11,000,000 of new assets during that period. Of the gross debt at the 30th June, 1925, £284,830,569 is redeemable in Australia, £88,097,605 is due to the Government of the United Kingdom, and £58,019,418 is redeemable in London. The debt redeemable in Australia' is nearly all war debt. The gross debt at the beginning of the financial year was £415,600,099, the increase during the year being £15,347,493. This increase in the nominal amount of the debt was, in the main, due to the raising of £15,209,850 by the Commonwealth for the states. {:#subdebate-60-0} #### Debt Redemption Substantial contributions were again made last year for the redemption of the public debt of the Commonwealth. The payments from revenue were: - In the previous financial' year an amount of £9,041,670 was applied to the redemption of debt. For the two years the total is £14,571,137. Australia is thus taking effective steps for reducing the war debt. {:#subdebate-60-1} #### The Australian Loan Council The loan operations of the Commonwealth and the states in 1924-5 were conducted in accordance with plans made by the Australian Loan Council, consisting of the Treasurer of the Commonwealth and the Treasurers of the states. The Commonwealth, acting as a central borrowing authority, issued two loans in Australia on behalf of the states - one for £10,300,000 of new money for state public works, and one for the conversion or redemption of £4,909,850 of maturing state securities. Both these loans were fully subscribed and were arranged without disturbance of the money market. Apart from sales of state securities over the counter at the state Treasuries, these were the only Government loan, operations in Australia during the financial year. The Commonwealth and the states issued their own loans in London, but the amounts were limited to the sums agreed upon by the several Treasurers. As regards loan operations in 1925-6, it has been decided that the Loan Council shall continue to operate during the year, and that the Commonwealth shall act as the sole borrower in respect of new money to be raised in Australia for both Commonwealth and state requirements. It is regretted that, according to latest advices, New South Wales is not at present cooperating in the work of the Loan Council. Two important loan operations have been undertaken since the beginning of the new financial year. An overseas loan of £20,000,000 for the Commonwealth and the states has been arranged, and an Australian conversion loan has been launched to cover £67,000,000 of maturing war loans. {:#subdebate-60-2} #### Oversea Loan of £20,000,000 When the Loan Council dealt with oversea borrowing last year, the chief consideration was tlie difficulty of bringing money from London to Australia. This year the Loan Council was faced with an entirely new problem. The ex change difficulty had disappeared with the removal of the embargo on the export of gold from Great Britain, but shortly afterwards doubt arose whether Australia could secure in the London market all the overseas money required for development. Several loans issued in London for the dominions and for public bodies had remained to a large extent in the hands of the underwriters, .and, as a result, borrowing by other Governments had to be delayed. As the London market had always served Australia well, the Loan Council strongly favoured the continuance of borrowing there. On making inquiries through the highest financial authorities, it was found, however, that the full amount required could not be obtained in London on advantageous terms, though a limited sum was available. The Loam Council decided, therefore, that portion of the sum required should be raised inNew York, and that, to secure the best results, borrowing in London and in New York should be co-ordinated, and simultaneous issues arranged. A group of underwriters of the highest standing in London and New York was then entrusted with the raising of £20,000,000, and the flotation proved an unqualified success. Of this sum, £13,500,000 is for the Commonwealth, and £6,500,000 for the states of Victoria, Queensland, South Australia, and Western Australia. The flotation was entirely a Commonwealth operation, and Commonwealth securities are being issued to the subscribers. In the mutual interests of the Commonwealth and of the states, the Loan Council had decided that there should be no competition as between themselves in the American market. Therefore, it had been agreed that borrowing in America, and borrowing done simultaneously in America and in London, on behalf of the Commonwealth and the states, should be conducted solely by the Commonwealth. Financial authorities, both in London and in Australia, agree that the Commonwealth acted wisely in approaching the American market in the special circumstances, and the manner in which the simultaneous issues were launched has been the subject of favorable, comment in London, in New York, and in Australia. Nearly all the money raised in New York was required for commitments in London, and satisfactory arrangements have been made for the transfer of the funds from New York to London. {:#subdebate-60-3} #### Australian War Conversion Loan The Government is now arranging for the conversion of £67,000,000 of war loans maturing on the 15th December, 1925. The Loan Council has agreed that no Other borrowing shall be undertaken in Australia during the period required for this loan. Before the return to free gold exports, the Commonwealth and State Governments were compelled to obtain loan moneys in Australia beyond the amount which could properly be raised here. That position arose not only because the cost of transfer of money from London to Australia was excessive, but also because considerable Government exchange business of that character would have made exchange rates even worse than they were, both for the Governments and for private business. The unduly heavy borrowing in Australia could be done only on the offer of abnormally high interest rates, and, as is well known, the Governments had to pay interest in Australia at about lj per cent, more than in London. This great disadvantage to Australia has been removed. The amount which can safely be borrowed in Australia can be calculated with some nicety, and there is now no reason to fear that Government loans in Australia will in future carry a rate of interest much differing from the rate payable overseas. Another factor operating to our advantage is that the National Debt Commission now has substantial sinking fund moneys which are applied in the purchase of Commonwealth securities on the market. These purchases tend to keep interest rates down. These general considerations and the good season recently experienced for primary products have greatly altered the outlook for borrowing in Australia. As a result, whereas loans issued by the Commonwealth in Australia during 1924-5 yielded as much as £6 7s. per cent, to the investor, Commonwealth securities purchasable on the market early in July of this year showed a reburn of less than 5$ per cent. When the terms for the war. conversion loan were fixed, it was therefore possible to make the issue at 5£ per cent, with every confidence that the rate would be acceptable to holders of the maturing securities. That the terms were right is shown by the generally favorable comment of financial authorities and by the fact that although the loan has been under offer for only a very short period, a total of £25,000,000 has already been subscribed. The maturing loan carries interest at 4^ per cent, free of state and federal income taxes, but in accordance with the policy adopted by Parliament, all loan issues after 31st December, 1923, are subject to Commonwealth income tax. The conversion loan, however, is free of income taxes levied or which may be levied by the states. The Treasury has placed itself in a strong financial position to face this conversion operation, and the Government has been able to announce that there will be no second offer, even if, contrary to expectations, the full amount is not subscribed. I feel confident that all public-spirited persons realize that this war obligation is one which must be- honoured. We have recently had clear evidence that our credit as a nation stands . high in the world's money markets, and I am sure this war conversion loan will be carried through in such a manner as to enhance the national credit. Debts op the States. The latest particulars available of the public debt or the states are those for the 30th June, 1924, when the debts were - These amounts represent the gross debts., without any. deduction for the substantial revenue-producing assets owned by the states, which were constructed with the loan moneys raised. Most of the public utilities in Australia have been provided by the State Governments. In' other countries, most of these services are provided by private enterprises. For this reason, the public debts of the states are of a nature quite different from those of most other countries. In 1923-4, the state works in Australia produced a net revenue of £17,580,958, which represents the earnings available for the payment of interest on the debt. The state sinking funds total £18,273,413. In most of the states the sinking fund contributions have been increased in recent years. On all loans now raised by the Commonwealth for the states an annual sinking fund payment of 10s. per cent, is made by the states to the Commonwealth. {: .page-start } page 1395 {:#debate-61} ### COMMONWEALTH BANK Absorption of Notes Board into Central Bank. In 1920, at a time when inflation was at its peak, the Commonwealth Parliament passed a law by which the control of paper money was handed to an independent authority, subject only to the right of the Government to resume control in case of emergency. This independent authority was a special department of the Commonwealth Bank, managed by the i Governor of the Bank, the Secretary to the Treasury,- and- two other directors, who were generally known as the. Notes Board. During its period of control from December, 1920, to October, 1924, the board set its face against any increase- in the paper currency. No inflation was traceable to any action, of the board, but, on the contrary, evidence of deflation can be found. The wisdom of its action can be estimated by reference to the ease with which Australian conditions have reacted from an inconvertible paper basis to the return to the gold standard. The Notes Board, occupying an isolated position, could not fulfil all the functions of a bank of issue. Consequently, in August, 1924, the Commonwealth Bank Act was amended with the object of enabling the Commonwealth Bank to assume in the financial affairs of the country that dominant place which' a national bank should hold. {:#subdebate-61-0} #### Central Banking Functions The bank was then given the absolute power of issuing paper money. Then, also, the bank was furnished with every other requirement to enable it to assume the functions of a central bank. Its management, which previously had rested in one man, was at the same time placed in the hands of a board consisting of the Governor, the Secretary to the Treasury, and six other directors representative of the various producing and mercantile interests of the Commonwealth. The new board was appointed early in October, 1924, when troubles of currency and exchange had reached a very acute stage. So serious were those troubles that it seemed as if the sale of the .surplus products of Australia would have to be suspended. The processes of exchange were so disorganized that in some cases no money at all could be transferred from London to Australia, and in other cases the value of" English money, expressed in pounds Australian, was lower than it had ever been before. There was every indication that London funds would have to be used in the purchase of gold at a high premium, and that the gold would Have to be brought to Australia in order to enable our surplus wool, wheat, and other products to be sold. If this had really became necessary, £100 obtained in London by the sale of Australian products would have been worth only about £90 here. This serious result was' averted by the action of the new directors, of the Commonwealth Bank, for,immediately after their appointment, they agreed to issue additional paper money and to lend the new currency to the banks up. to a total of £15,000,000. . Inflation was avoided because, a condition having been made by. the directors, that the notes should be repaid within a few months, the banks were not able to use the. paper for any permanent addition to theirbusiness, but only for seasonal purposes. This promise of notes immediately had the expected result, and sales ofour wool, wheat, and other exports went on without hindrance. Thus the action taken by the Commonwealth Bank immediately removed the difficulties, and sales were proceeded with. Wool was sold in large quantities at top prices during the later part of October and November. It was very fortunate for Australia that no stoppage of sales occurred, and that many Australian producers were able to take advantage of the good market, because a great slump in price occurred later. Though the sale of Australian produce bad in that way been facilitated, it was seen that our pound was still worth more than the pound English, and exchange rates were fixed on the telegraphic transfer basis of £96 10s. paid in Australia for £100 in London. This rate was disadvantageous, because it represented both a loss to our primary producers and a lessening of the protection afforded by the tariff to our secondary industries. In April last, the Government decided that the best interests of Australia required a return to the gold standard, and simultaneously with the Mother Country then issued a proclamation removing the embargo on the export of gold. Immediately after the issue of that proclamation, exchange became more favorable to our primary and secondary industries, and at the present moment £100 English is worth £99 15s. Australian. This means that our exporters are re-' ceiving a much higher price than formerly was possible, and that the special exchange profit which encouraged imports has disappeared. Already the Commonwealth Bank has assumed a position of guidance and control. There can be no doubt that it has been a great factor in influencing for good the industrial position of Australia. I should like to state further that, in the underwriting . arrangements connected with' the flotation of the conversion loan of £67,000,000, and with the two preceding flotations for the states, the Commonwealth Bank as a central bank has co-operated with all the other banks. {:#subdebate-61-1} #### Rural Credits When the bill to convert the. Common wealth Bank into a central bank was before the House last year, I intimated that the Government would take all necessary action to establish a system of rural credits inAustralia. A bill for that purposeis ready for presentation to the House and will be fully explained at the proper time. The bill is designed to make advances on primary produce in order to assist in orderly marketing. The new department is designed to permit the disposal of products, under the producer's control, at regular intervals during twelve months. This should tend bo stabilize local prices, with mutual benefit to producer and consumer. The system of rural credits will also be valuable in the. oversea marketing of the surplus production of Australia. Finance will be arranged through a rural credits department of the Commonwealth Bank, which will not only have a capital, but will also be clothed with powers temporarily to command such additional moneys as may be necessary. The capital will be in part provided by the accumulation of 25 per cent. of the profits of the note issue. {:#subdebate-61-2} #### Department of Markets and Migration This department was established early in the present calendar year. It deals with the oversea marketing of Australian products and with the selection of migrants. Its activities include those of the Board of Trade, the Australian Fruit Council, the Australian Meat Council. the Australian Dairy Council, the British Empire Exhibition and the Institute of Science and Industry. The establishment of the new department has not, involved any additional expense. {:#subdebate-61-3} #### Institute of Science and Industry A conference of commercial, scientific and industrial experts from each state has submitted a series of suggestions for the re-organization of the Institute of Science and Industry, so that it may, in cooperation with other organizations, deal more effectively with the problems facing the primary and secondary industries. The conference also indicated the matters on which effort should be concentrated immediately. These include forest products, liquid fuels, cold storage of food, stock diseases and pests, plant diseases and pests, and insect pests. An immediate inquiry is to be begun as to the best method of eradicating tick. {:#subdebate-61-4} #### Australian Commonwealth Engineering Standards Association The association has to date completed many standard specifications dealing with electrical engineering. The most important work recently carried out by the association is the issue of standards for voltages and frequencies to be used throughout Australia in connexion with electric supply. The standard of 230 volts for lighting will become the standard throughout the Empire, and will result in large economies, not only throughout Australia, but also throughout the British Empire. It is necessary to take stock of all our power resources, such as coal and other fuels, also of water power. For this purpose federal panels have been appointed to direct the investigations of sub-panels formed in each state. These panels will engage in the collection of data and arrangement of statistical information in regard to coal, oils, water power, timber, special fuels, and power requirements. The organization of these panels has been completed, but it will be some time before complete information will become available, owing to the difficulties in collecting data. {: .page-start } page 1397 {:#debate-62} ### AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIES {:#subdebate-62-0} #### Trade and Production of Commonwealth The increasing importance of the trade of the Commonwealth may be realized by a review of the figures of the total overseas trade (exports and imported : - The total output of the primary and secondary industries of the Common.wealth has advanced from - The increasing conversion of our raw material into finished products is typified by the following examples. In 1907 the woollen mills used 4,500,000 lb. of scoured wools in the manufacture of woollen textiles. In 1923-4, 11,795,000 lb. were similarly used. In 1907, the flour-milling industry ground 33,000,000 bushels of wheat; in 1922-3, the quantity ground was 52,586,000 bushels. In 1907, 2,290,000 gallons of milk were converted into condensed and powdered milk; in 1922-3, 16,000,000 gallons were similarly treated . It will be seen that the balance of trade has improved by £25,000,000. {:#subdebate-62-1} #### Assistance to Australian Producers During 1924-5 payments of bounties totalled £352,855. The bounties were paid on products of both primary and secondary industries. The largest proportion of the total was paid to manufacturers of galvanized sheets, wire netting and traction engines, who received £207,333 under the Iron and Steel Bounty Act 1922. This act substituted assistance to the industries by bounty instead of by Customs duties, and combinedan appreciable relief to rural producers with an effective encouragement of the industries. Bountiesunder the Sulphur Bounty Act 1923 totalled £47,140, on a sulphur production of about 20,950 tons, which was used mainly in the manufacture of superphosphates. The payments under the Wine Export Bounty Act 1924 amounted to £28,417, and were made subject to the growers of Doradillo grapes receiving a reasonable price for their product. Theproduction and export of canned fruits was assisted by the payment of £64,876 as bounties -under, the Canned Fruit Bounty, Act 1924. This amount was. paid out of a sum set aside in trust fund in 1923-4. , {: type="A" start="A"} 0. sum of £3,991 was expended . under the Cattle' Export Bounty Act 1924 on live cattle exported, from the Commonwealth for slaughter, and £762 under the Meat Export Bounties Act. ' Bounties on the production of crude shale oil represented £336. The smallness' of amount paid on thelast-named item was due to the fact that the principal works were closed down, but an early resumption and increased production are expected. Advertising Australian Products in Great Britain. The Dried Fruits Control Board and the Dairy Produce Control Board have begun extensive advertising in GreatBritain with a view to taking full advantage of the preference in connexion with Australian dried fruits, and also with a view to the extension of the market for butter and cheese. The Government has decided to cooperate with these boards in a scheme of advertising throughout the United Kingdom of Australian wines and other products. ' {:#subdebate-62-2} #### Preference Results of the efforts of the. Prime Minister at the Imperial Economic Conference are now evident in the substantial advantages reaped by Australia under the tariff concessions granted by the Imperial Parliament. Australian currants, sultanas, and lexias are free of duty, but a levy of £7 per ton is made on foreign sultanas and lexias, and £2 per ton on foreign currants. On currants, sultanas, lexias and sugar wines, Australia will benefit this year to the extent of about £850,000. Dominion hops have an advantage of £1 6s. 8d. per cwt. over foreign. The reciprocal Tariff Treaty with Canada has been practically completed. {:#subdebate-62-3} #### Fruit Early in 1924, the Government made advances of £200,000 against the 1925 crop of dried fruits. The Government, recognizing the difficulties still confronting the industry, has decided to ask Par liament to allow one-half of the' advance to be repaid in 1926 and the remainder in the following year. . Under the Export Guarantee Act, a sum of £23,000 has been advanced to growers- on exports of fruit The production of canned fruits last season exceeded that of any previous year. As a result of an advertising campaign carried' out by the Government in '1923, and of the bounties given in 1924, canners are now able to sell in the Commonwealth - about 75 per cent. of the pack at profitable prices. Owing to the keen competition of California in Great Britain, it has been necessary to grant a freight subsidy under the Export Guarantee Act, in respect of apricots, clingstone peaches, and pineapples. It is expected that this subsidy, amounting to about £15,000, will enable the surplus fruits to be disposed of in Great Britain before the new canning season commences. The subsidy will not be paid unless the canner gives to the grower at orchard at least £10 per ton for apricots and peaches, and £7 per ton for pineapples. Assistance is being rendered under the Export Guarantee Act, out of the £500,000 set aside by Parliament, to growers of oranges and Ohanez grapes, to enable a surplus of these fresh fruits to be disposed of abroad. A grant of £17,331 was also made to the growers of Doradillo grapes, many of whomare returned soldiers, to assist in meeting the heavy losses sustained in consequence of the low prices of 1924. The 1925 export of Australian apples has been very successful. Over 2,100,000 cases were shipped, and realized a satisfactory average of 16s.10d. per case. {:#subdebate-62-4} #### Dairy Produce An Export Control Board has been established to regulate the sale abroad of Australian butter and cheese, and an agency of the board is about to be established in London. The board is negotiating for a reduction of insurances and freights. Finance will be made available by the Commonwealth under the Export Guarantee Act to enable the board to keep control of the butter and cheese until it can be placed on the market to best advantage. There has been a record dairying season for the twelve months ended 30th June. Notwithstanding the heavy export of Australian butter and cheese, and the enlarged shipments from New Zealand, the British and Continental markets are absorbing the whole surplus of both, countries at satisfactory prices. The important feature of the season has been the much increased demand by the Continent for Australian butter. The prestige of our goods has been very materially heightened by the work of the Australian Dairy Council in enforcing universal pasteurization in the Commonwealth, and establishing the national brand, " Kangaroo." The standardization of quality thus effected is acknowledged by the distributing trade in British centres and on the Continent. This enhancement of quality will be an important and helpful factor to the Dairy Produce Export Control Board in carrying out its functions in connexion with improving the whole marketing position oversea. Recognizing that a great improvement cun be effected in the standard of dairy herds, the Government is considering the question of acting in conjunction with the states to bring about greater efficiency in the industry. {:#subdebate-62-5} #### Meat The Australian Meat Council, which was established on a voluntary basis in 1922, will shortly be vested with statutory powers under the Meat Industry Encouragement Act which was passed by the Parliament last session. The council will carry on its valuable work by establishing new markets and further advertising old ones, by taking steps towards improving the standard and quality of. the meat produced, and by effecting reduction of freights. {: .page-start } page 1399 {:#debate-63} ### SUGAR The pool created by the sugar industry and the Queensland Government, under arrangement with the Commonwealth Government, will terminate its operations on the 31st August, 1925. Owing to a bountiful season and large areas planted, there will be an exportable surplus for 1.924-5 season of approximately 150,000 tons of raw sugar. On the 24th December, 1924, the Government announced that it was prepared to extend the embargo on the import of foreign sugar for a further period of three years after the 31st August, 1925, subject to added concessions being given by the sugar industry to domestic consumers, manufactures for home consumption, and the export trade. The additional concessions represent a sum estimated at £282,000. £124,000 of this is due to the special provision whereby best refined sugar is to be supplied for manufacturing fruit products for local consumption at £30 6s. '8d. per ton as against the price for manufacturing other goods for local consumption of £36 lis. 9d. Sugar will continue to be supplied to manufacturers for all exported goods at the Australian equivalent of the world's parity, and the export sugar committee, which will determine the export price, is to include a representative of the manufacturing exporters. {:#subdebate-63-0} #### Cotton The soil and climatic conditions of parts of Australia render it a large potential cotton-producing country. Cottongrowing carried on by farmers on small areas, in conjunction with other forms of agriculture, will be an important factor in developing large areas in Queensland. To encourage cotton production, Queensland pays the grower a fixed price for cotton, the state arranging for its treatment and marketing. The estimated output in 1924-5 is 11,000 bales, valued at approximately £340,000. The Commonwealth Government has agreed to co-operate with the state by sharing the losses. Representations recently made by cotton-growing interests that the industry be freed from government control, and that a Commonwealth bounty be substituted for the existing guaranteed price, are receiving consideration by the Government. {:#subdebate-63-1} #### Wheat Last year I forecast that there would bc comparatively high prices for the ensuing season's wheat crop. This was the case - the total crop (approximately 165,000,000 bushels) was sold at satisfactory prices. The indications for the next harvest are that good prices will .continue, and also that the harvest itself will in all states be larger than in the past season. The proposal for a Rural Credits Department of the Commonwealth Bank will provide adequate financial machinery to ensure the regular and orderly marketing of this product. {:#subdebate-63-2} #### Wool The past season has been noticeable for one of those reversals in values which are inseparable from a trade dependent so largely on economic conditions and the varying modes of fashion. Prices opened at a high level and registered practically a continuous advance until November, when the market turned, and thence values fell so rapidly that at the end of April it was determined *to* suspend sales to enable the trade to take stock of the position. Some three-quarters of the clip, however, was disposed of at prices which constituted a financial record for Australia, while a bounteous season resulted in an increase of about 300,000 bales as compared with 1923-4. On the 30th June 500,000 bales of unsold wool were in store in Australia. The realization of the wool in hand will overlap that of the incoming clip, which bids fair to be equal to its predecessor, so far as growth and general conditions are concerned, and it should show an increase on the figures of 1924-5. Auction sales have been resumed, and good competition has been experienced, resulting in satisfactory clearances at an all-round level of values, approximating that ruling during the period of the Imperial wool-purchase scheme and comparing very favorably with pre-war prices. Indications are that, at the present basis of values, manufacturers are prepared to operate, and, with the return of confidence engendered by free marketing, I think we may look forward to a satisfactory realization of existing stocks as well as of the incoming clip. {:#subdebate-63-3} #### Migration The flow of assisted migrants is being maintained, the average for the three years up to December, 1924, being 25,000. Since the Commonwealth Government assumed the overseas control, in March, 1921, assisted immigrants numbering 97,357 have been brought to Australia. Under the new agreement between the British and Commonwealth Governments signed on the 8th April last, it is provided that existing land settlement agreements with New South Wales, Victoria, and Western Australia may be retired in favour of the new agreement. If this offer is accepted, the Commonwealth Government will raise loan moneys to the amount of £34,000,000, and issue them as required to the states at an interest rate payable by the states of 1 per cent. for five years, and one-third of the effective interest for a second period of five years. The British Government has agreed to pay one-half of the interest charges during the first five years, and one-third of the charges for the second five years. In addition, that Government will bear onethird of the cost of farm training depots. The Commonwealth Government accepts a similar responsibility in respect of training depots, and meets the difference between one-half of the interest and the low rates payable by the states as already indicated. It is proposed that this money be advanced by the Commonwealth to the states, not merely for land settlement, but also for developmental and reproductive enterprises, so as to ensure due absorption of an average of . 45,000 migrants in each of the next ten years. This incidentally will give a stimulus to local industry, and thus should preclude any possibility of local unemployment. Another very important agreement was recently concluded by the Commonwealth with the British Government in relation to the passage-money payable by migrants. In accordance with this agreement, migrants will pay from £5 10s. to £16 10s. for each person, whereas under the former agreement the rates varied from £16 10s.. to £22. The balance of the passage-money is paid by the British and Commonwealth Governments. {: .page-start } page 1400 {:#debate-64} ### REVIEW OF THE BUDGET {:#subdebate-64-0} #### Disposalof Surplus My review of the finances, industries, and prospects of Australia indicates beyond question the soundness of the position of the Commonwealth at the present time. Our finances are most satisfactory. The last year closed with a surplus revenue of £3,018,376. Adding the previous accumulations of revenue, the total surplus available at 30th June last amounted to £4,609,529. The Government proposals for the allocation of this surplus are: - {:#subdebate-64-1} #### Concessions The finances of the new year have been arranged on such a basis that the Government has been enabled to bring forward proposals for relief of taxation and for assistance to industries and individuals as follow: - It will be seen that, in granting this relief, the Government has been mindful of the interests of every section of the community. There can be no doubt as to the wisdom of remitting taxation and incurring the additional expenditure which I have indicated. In making this statement, I should like to emphasize the fact that the giving up and the use of revenue in the manner stated has been possible only by the most careful scrutiny of all the various kinds of expenditure of the Commonwealth, and by the most prudent arrangement of the finances - permitting expenditure where it is desirable and not hesitating to ration spending departments where that can economically be done. {:#subdebate-64-2} #### Redemption of National Debt In the year just closed there was applied towards the extinction of the national debt a total of £5,529,467. In the previous financial year an amount of £9,041,670 was similarly applied, the total for the two years being £14,571,137. That this young country has been able to redeem so much of its debt cannot fail to have an important influence on the minds of overseas lenders, and must inspire a spirit of confidence amongst our own people, giving them heart to engage in new enterprises in the full knowledge that the finances of the country are upon a stable basis. It is true that, as money must be obtained to develop the great latent resources of Australia, further borrowing must be undertaken ; but this, . too, will fall under the definite arrangements made by this Parliament for a sinking fund. No debt can now be incurred by the Commonwealth for any purpose whatever unless a sinking fund be established which will redeem the debt in 50 years at most. Thus a well-organized system of borrowing and repayment has been developed, and this system is in marked contrast to the want of method which at one time was evident in Australian finances. Concessions During the Present Parliament. The record of financial adjustment made in and since 1922-23 is both important and striking. In 1922-23, when the present Prime Minister was in office as Treasurer, certain reductions in taxation were made. The policy and administration of the Government in the ensuing three years have been such as not merely to continue these reductions, but, in each subsequent year, to make further reductions in taxation, all of which are cumulative. The reductions in three years have been.- In. addition to affording this relief to the public, the Commonwealth has out of the remainder of its revenues provided for the following additional . expenditure : - During this Parliament, £1,750,000 has also been set aside for main roads development; and unexpected Customs revenue has been used in redemption of the national debt. {: .page-start } page 1402 {:#debate-65} ### CONCLUSION This concludes the financial proposals made to this Parliament. Each budget statement has laid bare the financial position of the Commonwealth in a more and more simple form. Each year has seen the Government steadfastly pursuing its aim of reducing the deadweight war debt and its accompanying interest load. Each year the ledger has been balanced, notwithstanding that substantial remissions in direct and indirect taxation have been made. Such reductions relieve every person iii the community, tend to reduce the cost of living, and to increase the effective value of wages. The Government has been able to do this while pursuing a progressive extended programme of defence, providing adequate sinking funds for redemption of debt, giving substantial encouragement to the industries of the Commonwealth, making a very great addition to the comfort of our pioneers in their declining years, and honouring the national obligations to soldiers. The public credit of the Commonwealth has improved both at home and overseas. Australia must have stable government and sound finance. Given this, capital for development will be attracted, trade, manufactures, and population will increase, and it will be possible steadily to reduce taxation. The prosperity of Australia in the past, her recuperative power as shown by her progress, since the war, her present well- being, her high natural increase in population, and her attractiveness for a good type of immigrant, augur well for the future. With all these advantages, with mutual goodwill, and with the cooperation of all, a bright and happy future is assured. I move - >That the first item in the Estimates under Division 1 - The Parliament - namely, " The President, £1,100," be agreed to. Motion (by **Dr. Earle** Pace) agreed to- >That the consideration of the general Estimates be postponed until after the consideration of the Estimates for Additions, New Works, Buildings, &c. Progress reported. {: .page-start } page 1402 {:#debate-66} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-66-0} #### QUARANTINE STATION, MANLY {: #subdebate-66-0-s0 .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE:
Warringah -- I move - >That a select committee he appointed to inquire into and report upon the question of the removal of the quarantine station from the vicinity of Manly, Ne.w South Wales; such committee to consist of five members, viz., **Mr. Coleman, Mr. Boland** Green, **Mr. Manning, Mr. Edward** Riley, and the mover, three to form a quorum; with power to send for persons, papers, and records, and that such committee do report two months from this day. I should be glad if you, **Mr. Speaker,** would inform me how much time is now available for the discussion of general business. {: #subdebate-66-0-s1 .speaker-10000} ##### Mr SPEAKER: -- I will inform the honorable member after I have consulted the Clerk regarding the time occupied by the budget statement. {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- I have been worrying for eighteen or twenty years about the quarantine station near Manly. In my long parliamentary experience I have not previously moved for the appointment of either a select committee or a royal commission. I know that requests are often made for the appointment of committees to investigate trivial matters; but I have been forced to the conclusion that the location of the quarantine station near Manly is of vital importance not merely to the residents of that district, but to every person in Australia. I say so for the reason that Manly is one of the most popular and important pleasure and health resorts in Australia. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- I understand that the Government is opposing the appointment of all select committees. Is the honorable member aware of that ? {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- I am not aware of that. I hope the Government will hot oppose the appointment of the select committee for which I ask. If it does, it may find itself up against very serious opposition. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- What about the select committees asked for by other honorable members ? {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- I can express no opinion about opposition to select committees asked for by other honorable members, but I say that the Government would be very unwise to oppose the appointment of the select committee for which I ask, and, by so doing to flout the requests, and recommendations and advice of a very large section of the community. I am asking for the appointment of a small committee under conditions which will limit expense. I am not asking that the committee shall have the power to move from place to place. I believe that its work can be done in Sydney, though the members might take a run over to the quarantine station to have a look at it. I am asking for a committee to inquire into all the circumstances connected with the menace to the health of the people caused by 'the establishment of a quarantine station in such close proximity to so populous a place as Manly. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- Requests for select committees, by other honorable members, have been refused. {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- I cannot help that. I am not interested in other committees to the same extent as I am in that for which I am asking, and I am doing the best I can in support of my own application for a select committee. I have personally interviewed the Minister for Defence and the Minister for Health, who are one and the same person. That honorable gentleman **(Sir Neville Howse)** was not as sympathetic to my request as I think he might have been. I believe that he is guided chiefly by the recommendations of members of the staff of the Defence and Health Departments. 1 think he is influenced largely by the opinions of **Dr. Cumpston,** a gentleman who is obsessed with the idea that he must oppose everything proposed by any body else. Indeed, I think he might oppose something which he had proposed himself. **Dr. Cumpston** will, without rhyme or reason, oppose any mortal thing put before him, and he is definitely opposed to the removal of the quarantine station from its present position. I am afraid that the Minister for Health **(Sir Neville Howse)** attaches more importance to the opinions of men like **Dr. Cumpston** than to the requests, advice, and recommendations of thousands of influential people living in close proximity to the quarantine station. {: .speaker-KLM} ##### Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936 -- It is a deadly menace to Australia. {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- I believe it is. I have said that Manly is the most popular and important health resort in Australia; but this is a matter which concerns not only those who reside in the vicinity of Manly and Sydney, but the whole of the people of Australia. In the summer time people come to Manly from every part of Australia, and they can be seen in their tens of thousands on the beautiful beaches there. If a person, suffering from an infectious disease, is allowed to get away from the quarantine station and mingle with the people at Manly, that disease may be carried far and wide throughout Australia. That is a matter for -very serious consideration. I urge upon the Minister for Health that no harm can be done by the appointment of a small select committee to make inquiries into the possibility of the removal of the existing quarantine station to some other place, or of arriving at some compromise in the matter. I have made personal and official application to have some division of the existing area. Do honorable members know that there are 600 acres of very valuable land comprised in the existing station which would make "beautiful park lands and recreation areas. They are locked up in the quarantine station, and goodness only knows for what purpose. The great extent of the existing station makes it most difficult to police it. This difficulty will be admitted when I tell honorable members that I have personal knowledge that persons suffering from an infectious disease, and supposed to be confined at the quarantine station, have found their way out, and have attended dances in Manly. It has been found impossible to effectively police- the area and prevent inmates of the quarantine station from getting out and mingling with the general population. Some will contend that it would not improve matters to reduce the area of the existing station, but its reduction would make it possible to more effectively police it. I understand that there is some objection by the Defence Department to the removal of the station, or to the curtailment of. its area. Why the department should desire to reserve an area at North Head of 600 acres for defence purposes I cannot imagine. It may want North Head as a gun position; but there is no reason why it should not do all that is required by an improvement of the fortifications of South Head,, from which the harbour might be just as effectively protected. What sort of defence could be established at North Head that could not be established at South Head? The Defence Department has been putting up this objection for the last twenty years, but in all that time no defensive .works have been carried out at North Head, which has not been made use of in' connexion with defence. In spite of this the Defence Department continues its opposition to the request of the people of Manly to have at least some inquiry made as to what might be done to remove what is at present a serious menace to the health of the people. I shall not take up time unnecessarily in discussing the motion. I want to get a vote upon it, and I believe the House will agree to my request in view of the importance of the matter. I ask the Minister to, at all events, let me have the satisfaction of making some inquiry to see whether it is not possible to remove the quarantine station from North Head, whether there is not a more suitable site for a quarantine station, and what would be the cost of removal to such a site. I should like to be able to inquire, also, whether, if the existing station cannot be removed, it would not be advisable to cut off, say, 300 acres of the area, and make it available for park and recreation grounds. I shall not labour the matter further. The Government will be well advised not to oppose my simple request, when it is backed up by the. advice and recommendation of many thousands of people who have lived in the vicinity of the quarantine station for years. {: .speaker-L1J} ##### Mr Lister: -- Why did not the honorable gentleman remove the quarantine station from North Head when he was Minister for Defence ? {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE: -- Unfortunately I was never Minister for "Defence. I should have done something if I had been. I was only Assistant Minister for Defence, and had no control over matters of policy. I hope the House will grant the select committee I am asking for. . . {: #subdebate-66-0-s2 .speaker-KI7} ##### Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
Minister for Defence and Minister for Health · Calare · NAT -- The honorable member for Warringah **(Sir Granville Ryrie)** has opened up an extremely important question in proposing the removal of the quarantine station near Manly, and I think it advisable for the House to have some definite data in reference to that establishment before it decides whether it will grant the select committee for which the honorable member asks. The quarantine station comprises an area of 671 acres. In 1908 it was agreed between the New South Wales Government and the Commonwealth Government that this area should be divided into two definite sections, one of 388 acres for a land quarantine station, and another 283 acres for a marine quarantine station , and that ' in the event of the land being no longer required for quarantine purposes it should be re-transferred to the New South Wales Government, with the exception of that portion required for defence. It has been alleged by the honorable member for Warringah that the use of this area as a quarantine station is a menace not only to the people living iri its vicinity but also to all the visitors who go to Manly each year. In 1888 the people of Manly made a complaint about the matter, a.nd the then head of the Quarantine Department pointed out that in the 54 years' preceding there had been 50 separate outbreaks of small-pox in New South Wales, and that in not one case had there been any extension of the disease to any individual in either Manly or Sydney. There is perfectly clear evidence that the North Head quarantine station has not been a menace to the health of the people of Manly at any period during its establishment. Honorable members will recognize that we must have a quarantine station near Sydney, and that such establishments are particularly necessary in. this country. The honorable member for Melbourne **(Dr. Maloney)** strongly opposes the retention of the quarantine station at North Head, but I remind him that in view of our proximity to the East, quarantine in Australia is a very different matter from quarantine in England. There is no evidence whatever that the existing quarantine station at North Head has been a menace to anybody in the vicinity, in Sydney, or in New South Wales. If it is to be removed we must consider where it should be re-established, and even the advocates of its removal agree that the only place to which it could be removed is Jervis Bay. {: .speaker-KMU} ##### Mr Marks: -- What about Botany Bay? {: .speaker-KI7} ##### Sir NEVILLE HOWSE: -- The honorable member must know that it is impossible to find in Botany Bay anchorage for large vessels. The only place on ihe coast open to discussion- in this connexion is Jervis Bay, and even there, as the Director of Navigation points out, there is not sufficient anchorage for a large number of boats because the west side of the bay is exposed to the heavy swell thrown in by south-easterly gales. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- How many boats would be anchored at one time in quarantine? {: .speaker-KI7} ##### Sir NEVILLE HOWSE: -- During the influenza epidemic a considerable number of boats was held in quarantine at Manly. It is quite clear that the quarantine station at Manly is no menace to the health of the people of Sydney. Now I come to the second aspect of . the question - that of defence requirements. Since the war, it has come to be recognized that coastal defences will probably play a great and important part - possibly a more important part than was anticipated before 1914- in the defence of big towns adjacent to the sea. The defence authorities point out that a gun of the 9.2 type requires to be surrounded by a cleared area of at least 1,000 yards radius, that is to say, by an area of 800 acres, and were it not for the fact that at North Head there is the ocean to the east, the area now available - 671 acres - would not be enough for the working of a 9.2 gun, and still more insufficient for the management of a 15-inch gun. The Imperial Defence Committee now sitting in London is discussing this subject, and at an early date the Government hopes to learn from it what type of fortification it considers necessary to erect at North Head. Therefore it is clear that it is not possible for a select committee to obtain evidence of any value on the question. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- Why could a select committee not get evidence ? {: .speaker-KI7} ##### Sir NEVILLE HOWSE: -- Because there is none available. The Government has no evidence yet as to the type of coastal defence that should be constructed at North Head. It is waiting for that information before laying before Parliament its programme for the construction of coastal defences. I appeal to the honorable member for Warringah to try to realize the inadvisability of asking for a select committee, because evidence is not available on the subject of defence. It is true that a committee could take evidence in regard to the supposed menace to the health of the community due to the proximity of the quarantine station to Manly but any body of scientific men would, without a moment's hesitation, come to a conclusion upon that point. The experience of 100 'years has shown that the quarantine station at North Head has not been a menace to the health of the people of Sydney. Assuming that the station could be removed to some place where a suitable anchorage could be found, the estimated minimum cost of the removal would be £250,000 without providing for sewerage. After what I have said, I ask honorable members to consider very seriously whether it is advisable to spend on an inquiry by a select committee even the small sum of money to which the honorable member for Warringah refers. When I received a deputation from the people of Manly the one point they made was that the presence of the quarantine station was inimical to the growth of the town. We dealt with the ' ' menace to health " objection quite easily, and I thought I had convinced them on that point, but evidently I did not do so. It is true that the growth of Manly has been phenomenal. During the decade from 1911 to 1921 its population has increased from 10,000 to 18,000, and every year there has been an increase . in. the number, of visitors. However, there is no warrant for incurring any expense whatever in appointing a select committee todiscuss a matter on which it could not get evidence which the Government itself is not able to get to guide it in coming to a decision as to whether the area should be given up or not. {: #subdebate-66-0-s3 .speaker-KLM} ##### Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936 .- I am sorry to have to disagree with the Minister for Health **(Sir Neville Howse).** It may be another instance of scientific men, like legal men, giving an opinion pretty well to order to suit the Government. I ask the honorable member for Warringah to press his motion. Only the thickness of a sheet of galvanized iron separates the quarantine station at North Head from the town of Manly. If the germs of small-pox, or any other contagious disease, can be carried during warm summer weather, honorable members can see the menace of continuing this station on its present site. We have been told by the. honorable member for Warringah that quarantined persons have attended a dance at Manly. I know from my own experience that the children of officials at the quarantine station attended a school in Manly every day while I was with other honorable members in quarantine. I also know that the department was so well managed at the time that through its absolute ignorance it made the Minister of the day tell lies. When we asked that the second and third class passengers on our boat should have the advantage of warm baths, the reply came that hot shower baths were available to them. As a matter of fact, there was not a single hot shower bath in the whole of the establishment, and I replied in a telegram worded in this way, " Not only is your answer inaccurate, but your informant in the department is idiotic, because there are no hot shower baths in the estab'lishment." The womenfolk who unfortunately could not travel first class on ourboat had to perform all their ablutions in a trough 2 ft. 6 in. long, 2 ft. 6 in. wide, and 10 inches deep. My statements in this regard can be borne out by the honorable member for Herbert **(Mr. Bamford)** and the honorable member for Lang **(Sir Elliot Johnson),** who were quarantined with me. We called a meeting of the passengers, and asked the firstclass lady passengers to give up half their hot baths for the accommodation of the ladies travelling in the second and third classes. To their honour, they agreed to do so. These facts show how the department was managed at that time. I have given up the practice of medicine for the last eighteen years, and ' I am prepared to defer to the knowledge of the Minister for Health ; but I ask him if it is not true that germs of contagious and infectious diseases can be carried on waves of hot air for a distance of at least 6 feet. I have known of infection to pass from one room to another. However, is it right that one of the beauty spots ofone of Australia's most beautiful harbours should be used as a quarantine ground ? Perhaps the Minister will agree with me that the most perfect site for a quarantine station is an island, and if there are no islands available on the coast of New South Wales, which I regret, surely there are sites at Kuringai Chase which could be absolutely isolated, and where the waters are comparatively calm no matter how great a storm may be raging outside. {: .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr Marr: -- A ferry boat cannot be taken up to Kuringai Chase. {: .speaker-KLM} ##### Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936 -- I am not asking that a ferry boat should go up there. Would not small boats take the passengers ashore from the quarantined vessels ? No steamer can go alongside the jetty at the present quarantine station. If I am any judge of the fighting qualities of the honorable member for Warringah he will go through with his proposal, and if he does so, he will have my support. {: #subdebate-66-0-s4 .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN:
Parramatta .- The removal of the quarantine station from near Manly is a subject that is of perennial interest. As long as I can remember, I have heard of the menace to the health of the town of Manly. When I was Minister for Defence the Manly Council made representations on the matter, and examined the proposal from the point of view of the Defence Department. Its principal contention then was ' that as the town was. growing so rapidly the area occupied by the quarantine station should be made available for additional residences. My opinion is that the town has ample room to grow to the north, and does not need to go any further south. I notice that, the honorable member for Warringah.. **(Sir Gran- ville' Ryrie)** is not asking that the area should be made available for building sites, but that it should be used as a park for the benefit of the inhabitants of Sydney. I do not think that his proposal will meet with the wishes of the Manly Council, whose main object is to bring revenue to its coffers. If the area were subdivided and sold, the council would increase the number of its 'ratepayers. The quarantine station has been at North Head since the thirties of last century, and as there has been no instance of the transmission of disease from it to any person in Manly or elsewhere, the alleged menace is only a bogy. The honorable member for Melbourne **(Dr. Maloney)** spoke of the careless administration of the station, but his statements have no bearing on the question of site. I do not desire to discuss the conduct of the station, except to say that all infectious cases are kept far away from the galvanized iron boundary fence to which the honorable member referred. {: .speaker-KLM} ##### Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936 -- I have walked along the fence myself. {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- The honorable member was not an infected person when he was there. Other parts of the area ave open to contacts. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- The honorable member's statements do not constitute an argument against the appointment of a select committee. {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- All the information that a select committee could get is already available. . Personally, I was quite convinced by the information that was placed at my disposal. In every state the quarantine station is within the principal port. Although the Victorian quarantine station is a good distance down Port Phillip Bay, and is further from closely settled areas than is the North Head station, it is within the harbour. Quarantine is a serious matter to both passengers and shipping companies, and if the station were removed from Port Jackson to some place more remote, a great deal of additional expense would be involved, which would probably have to be borne by the Commonwealth. A site on the Hawkesbury River was suggested, but the bar at the mouth of the river prevents the entrance of. vessels of deep draught. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- The honorable member knows that the *Ophir* went up the river as far as the Hawkesbury River bridge. {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- The *Ophir* was a small vessel in comparison with the mail boats of to-day. Its draught was probably not more than 20 feet, whereas some of the larger mail steamers that now visit the Commonwealth draw as much as 30 feet. Unless the Hawkesbury River entrance were dredged vessels of that type could not enter. Botany Bay has been suggested as a suitable site; but it must be remembered that all around the bay new watering places have come into existence, and the country surrounding Botany Bay is becoming almost as- populous as Manly. The Minister for Defence has reminded us that suitable anchorage cannot be found in Botany Bay. Even if a suitable anchorage could be obtained there, nothing would be gained by transferring the quarantine station from one closely settled area to another. Jervis Bay is too far south, and the conveniences there are very few. Shipping companies could not reasonably be asked to bear the cost of quarantine at Jervis Bay. Already the charges upon shipping are a very great tax upon the community, and a further increase of them would have serious results. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- The honorable member seems to be anticipating that the committee would report in favour of the removal of the station. {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- I am opposed to the appointment of a committee, because it could do no- good, and would involve a futile expenditure of money. Every alternative site put forward by advocates of the removal of the station has been inquired into and rejected. Nobody has said how the cost of removal should be met. Certainly one advocate for the removal of the station suggested that the Commonwealth might sell the present site at Manly, and I believe that £1,000,000 or £1,250,000 was offered for it. But the agreement with the New South Wales Government requires that when the ground is no longer required by the Commonwealth for quarantine or defence purposes, it shall be handed back to the state. Therefore, this Government could not recover one penny in respect of the present site, and if another suitable site could be found the cost of removal - probably over £250,000 - would have to be borne by the Commonwealth. I do not know whether the honorable member for Newcastle can suggest another site; I am certain that he will not propose that the station should be transferred to Newcastle. Of course, if the station on its existing site were a menace to public health, the cost of transferring it would have to be faced; but as, during more than 80 years, when more or less "happy-go-lucky" methods of quarantine have often prevailed, no evil results have been traced to it, we may be confident that, with improved methods and the advance of medical science, there will be no danger in future. {: .speaker-L0I} ##### Sir Granville Ryrie: -- Does the honorable member propose to defer the removal of the station until it has caused an epidemic affecting the health of thousands of people? {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- I do not think that the continuance of the quarantine station near Manly will constitute any danger to public health. The defence aspect also must be taken into consideration.The honorable and gallant member who submitted the motion knows that one reason why North Head lias not hitherto been fortified is the inadequate means of communication with the other forts on the harbour. In effect, North Head was until recently practically an island, and the waters of Middle Harbour formed a serious obstacle to the sending of relief or reinforcements to that point. That disability has been overcome during the last twelve months by the completion of the Spit bridge, which has rendered possible quick land communication between Middle Head or George's Heights and North Head. It is almost certain that the Imperial Committee, which is reporting on the harbour defences of Australia, will recommend, as Lord Kitchener did, the fortification, of North Head. The trouble experienced at South Head, through the approach of settlement too close to the forts, should be a warning to us. The big guns at South Head cannot be used for training because of the damage done to windows and the resultant demands upon the Defence Department for compensation. Quite recently the department determined to give the trainees some training with the 9.2-inch guns, and issued a circular to the inhabitants of Vaucluse, "Watson's Bay, and other suburbs in the locality, advising them to leave their windows open at certain hours in order to avoid damage. By some people that advice was not heeded, and considerable claims have been made upon the department in respect of broken windows. {: .speaker-JZK} ##### Mr Coleman: -- Has the department to pay, in those circumstances? {: .speaker-JRH} ##### Mr BOWDEN: -- I am afraid it has. When North Head is fortified 9.2-inch or possibly 15-inch guns will be mounted there, and in view of that possibility it would be madness to part with the land now held by the Commonwealth at Manly. We should retain it if only for possible defence needs in the near future. The Minister for Defence has stated that even now the area is barely sufficient to provide a radius of 1,000 yards from the big guns to the nearest residences. I am afraid that some of the quarantine buildings are within that radius, but they are Commonwealth property. The proposal to remove the quarantine station from Manly has been put forward and inquired into *ad nauseam.* Every Commonwealth Minister for Health and every. Minister for Defence has had to consider it, and all have come to the conclusion that, in the interests of the Commonwealth and of Australian defence, it would be inadvisable to surrender that area to the state. In those circumstances, it would be foolish to incur the expense which would be involved in an investigation by a select committee. Question put. The House divided. AYES: 18 NOES: 38 Majority . . . . 20 AYES NOES Question so resolved in the negative. {: .page-start } page 1409 {:#debate-67} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-67-0} #### TASMANIA.N SHIPPING SERVICE Notice of motion by **Mr. O'Keefe** - >That, in the opinion of this House, provision should bc made by the Commonwealth Government, without delay, for the establishment of an adequate shipping service for both passengers mid cargo between Hobart and Melbourne. called on. {: #subdebate-67-0-s0 .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong -- On behalf of the honorable member for Denison **(Mr. O'Keefe),** who is attending the funeral of his brother, I ask that this motion be postponed until the 27th August. Motion accordingly postponed. {: .page-start } page 1409 {:#debate-68} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-68-0} #### NORFOLK ISLAND ADMINISTRATION {: #subdebate-68-0-s0 .speaker-KVU} ##### Mr THOMPSON:
New England -- I move - >That, in the opinion of this House, a royal commission should be appointed without undue delay to visit Norfolk Island, and inquire into the position of the island and its inhabitants in relation to Commonwealth control. Do I understand, **Mr. Speaker,** that the time allotted for the discussion of this motion expires at 6 o'clock? {: #subdebate-68-0-s1 .speaker-10000} ##### Mr SPEAKER: -- Yes. {: .speaker-KVU} ##### Mr THOMPSON: -- In that case, I suppose that I must ask, either for the adjournment of the debate, or for leave t > continue my remarks. **Mr. SPEAKER.There** are two courses open to the honorable member ; he may postpone his motion until another day, or he can move it now, and address himself to it until the time allotted for the consideration of motions expires, and then ask leave to continue his remarks at !i. later date. {: .speaker-KVU} ##### Mr THOMPSON: -- I shall adopt the hitter course. My reason for submitting this rather unusual motion for the consideration of honorable members is that I happened last Christmas, through quite an accident, to visit Norfolk Island, and there discovered, to my astonishment, that I was the only federal member to visit that Territory since it was taken over by the Commonwealth. {: .speaker-KX9} ##### Mr Watkins: -- That is not so. {: .speaker-KVU} ##### Mr THOMPSON: -- I made inquiries, and found that a number of members of this House visited Norfolk Island at about the time when legislation to tak, over the Territory was before Parliament. I find, from the records relating to the island, that since it has actually been under the control of the Commonwealth no federal member, with the exception of myself, has visited it. {: .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr Gabb: -- **Mr. West** has been there. {: .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr Fenton: -- Dozens of honorable members have been there. {: .speaker-KVU} ##### Mr THOMPSON: -- I think it will be found that they were there just before the island was taken over by the Commonwealth. This motion asking for a royal commission is rather a big proposition to place before honorable members, but, if appointed, the royal commission would thoroughly investigate the. conditions at Norfolk Island, and its report would probably resultin remedial legislation being introduced into this House. I shall not say, at this stage, that a royal commission would constitute the best form of inquiry at Norfolk Island; but I consider that some inquiry of a semi-judicial nature is urgently needed to benefit this far-distant and utterly neglected appendage of the Commonwealth. The conditions at that island - a mere speck in the Pacific - are certainly agreeable to the majority of its inhabitants, but honorable members, when they hear the information which I have to place before them, will agree with me that drastic action must be taken to place the affairs of the island upon a satisfactory footing. That Territory,carrying a community of about 700 people, is ruled by an Administrator appointed by the Home and Territories Department. If the islanders have the good fortune to secure the services of an official properly qualified for the position, they are happy indeed; but if otherwise, then their lot can be made very miserable. I ask leave to continue my remarks at a later date. Leave granted; debate adjourned. {: .page-start } page 1410 {:#debate-69} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-69-0} #### GRANTING OF TITLES Order of the day called on for the resumption of the debate *(vide* page 874), on motion by **Mr. McGrath** - >That, in the opinion of this House, the granting of titles is contrary to the sentiment of the citizens of Australia. > >That the above resolution be conveyed to His Gracious Majesty King George through His Excellency the Governor-General. Question put. The House divided. AYES: 24 NOES: 34 Majority ... ... 10 AYES NOES {: #subdebate-69-0-s0 .speaker-KXG} ##### Mr SPEAKER (Rt Hon W A Watt:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA -- Yes. Under to-day's arrangement the time allotted for the consideration of notices of motion expired at 6 o'clock, and private orders of the day were then called on. Question so resolved in the negative. {: .page-start } page 1410 {:#debate-70} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-70-0} #### ENFORCEMENT OF LAWS AND ARBITRATION COURT AWARDS Order of the day having been called on for the resumption of the debate(vide page 876), on motion by **Mr. Latham** - >That, in the opinion of this House, means should be provided for the effective enforcement of all the lawswhich Parliament places or allows to remain upon the statute-book, and that as a general rule such enforcement should not be left to the initiative of interested parties; in particular, that officers should he appointed for the purpose of making necessary inspections and inquiries for the purpose of securing the observance by all parties of wards of the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration, and of enforcing the provisions of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Act. {: #subdebate-70-0-s0 .speaker-KZO} ##### Mr LATHAM: -- The Prime Minister has not indicated the length of the adjournment which is desired. I suggest that the order of the day be postponed for a fortnight. {: .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr Bruce: -- Yes. Order of the day postponed until 27th August. "WAK SERVICE HOMES COMMISSION. Claim of H. Dean and Sons. Order of the day called on for the resumption' of the debate *(vide* page S64), on motion by **Mr. Watkins** - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. 1 ) That a select committee be appointed to inquire into the claim of H. Dean and Sons, of Newcastle, New South Wales, against the War Service Homes Commission. 1. That such committee consist of **Sir Elliot** Johnson, **Mr. E.** C. Riley, **Mr. Seabrook, Mr. Josiah** Francis, **Mr. Coleman, Mr. Gardner,** and tho mover, five to form a quorum; with power to send for persons and papers, and records, and examine judgment in connexion therewith, to adjourn from place to place; and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings, and the evidence taken; and that such committee do report this day three months. Motion (by **Dr. Maloney)** agreed to. That the consideration of the order of the 1 1 ay be postponed until 3rd September. {: .page-start } page 1411 {:#debate-71} ### ELECTIVE MINISTRIES Order of the day having been called on for the resumption of the debate *(vide* page 871), on motion by **Mr. Stewart** - >1 ) That in the opinion of this House a system of elective Ministries should be substituted for the existing system of party government in the Commonwealth Parliament. > >That the passage of the foregoing resolution shall be an instruction to the Government to forthwith appoint a committee representative of all parties in the House, with power to call for persons and papers, to draft definite proposals for the purpose of carrying nut the above elective executive principle on lines likely to prove most suitable to Commonwealth conditions. > >That the committee so appointed shall submit their report and recommendations to vh is House during the present session for the purpose of enabling Parliament to discuss and take such action as it may decide in the light of the report and recommendations so submitted. Order of the day adjourned until 20th August. {: .page-start } page 1411 {:#debate-72} ### POWER ALCOHOL BOUNTY BILL {:#subdebate-72-0} #### Second Reading Debate resumed from. 26th June *(vide* page 520) on motion by **Mr. Pratten-** >That this bill he now read a second time. {: #subdebate-72-0-s0 .speaker-KZA} ##### Mr WEST:
East Sydney .- The production of power alcohol in Australia is likely to become a vexed question. The bill, in proposing to encourage the production of power alcohol from cassava, only trifles with the question, for two years ago Australia was using 34,000,000 gallons of power alcohol aud petrol a year, and for the year 1924-25 the figure will be about 81,000,000 gallons. Owing *tQ* the more general use of the internal combustion engine, the consumption of this fuel is likely to become still greater in the future. The Public Accounts Committee has for some time past been holding an inquiry into oil exploration, but has not heard any evidence to indicate the probability of discovering a payable flow of oil in this country. Other members of the committee may disagree with that statement, but I think they will all agree that oil cannot be discovered unless more energetic measures arc taken. We have been told that to look for oil in some parts of Australia is merely to waste time and money. Power alcohol is produced on the continent of Europe from various kinds of vegetation. Not only the Federal Government, but the Government cf Queensland also, has interested itself in the production of power alcohol from cassava. The tropical and sub-tropical parts of Queensland are well adapted to the growth of vegetation for this purpose. The bill provides for a bounty to a British company. I have never encouraged the payment of bounties; I prefer protective tariffs instead. But as no bounty will be paid to the company until the spirit is produced, and as the company is willing to incur a large expenditure with a view to earning the bounty, there appears to be no reason for opposing the bill. If power alcohol is made available as a fuel at a cheap price that will enable the soil of Australia to be put to better use. Honorable members opposite are always worrying about the need for settling people on the land. The Treasurer, in his budget speech this afternoon, proposed to write off an account for millions of pounds that have been given to people on the land.. That money has been thrown to the winds. It could better have been given to honorable members, who, individually, could have done some good with it. In 1915 Australia, in order to produce munitions, had to manufacture methylated spirits for the cordite factory. For that purpose a large expenditure was incurred in 1916 in building the acetate of lime factory, and highly skilled workmen were engaged. After the war over-production occurred, and the factory was closed. Subsequently it was reopened, but had not been running long before the private interests that produce methylated spirits were able to exert sufficient pressure to influence the champions of private enterprise who sit opposite, and it was again closed. Later, it produced power alcohol from molasses, which is a by-product of sugar refining, and had previously not been put to commercial use. The factory has been supplying the Defence Department, the Postal Department, and other Government departments with spirit. I hope that something will be clone to put it to greater use in the future, for otherwise, we shall suffer if international troubles occur It is the policy of the Labour party to have all the requirements of war manufactured in Australia; we do not approve of employing people on the other side of the world to build cruisers or other . weapons of defence. Statements made- to the Public Accounts Committee bear out what I say, but they are too long for me to read now. The bounty proposed by the Government is small, but it is essential. Should we obtain flow oil in Australia^ all other production cf oil and spirit, such as oil from shale, benzol from coal, and power alcohol from molasses, will become insignificant. It gives me pleasure to view any matter from the economical stand-point, and I remind honorable members that we .are at present sending out of Australia a very large sum of money for the purchase of crude oil. We possibly would have to pay more for its production in Australia, out I still doubt the wisdom of sending to the other side of the world for it. From the information I have obtained I have little doubt that when the American people discover that the number of oilwells is not being increased, they will conserve their supplies for themselves, and outsiders will have to do without it. It is a characteristic of the American people, which I admire, that they prefer to look after themselves first. They are, perhaps, the greatest consumers of oil for power purposes in the world, and, if they see no prospect of increasing their supplies, they will keep what they have for themselves. It is really against my nature not to oppose the Government, but I have no intention to oppose this measure, which may do something useful for the people of Australia. The measure should not be opposed by members of the Country party, because the people whom it may be the means' of putting on the land will be purchasers of the produce of the wheat-growers and cattle-raisers. T hope the company concerned in this business will be successful. If it is successful, Australia will lose nothing, by the bounty. {: #subdebate-72-0-s1 .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN:
Perth .- This is a bill to provide a bounty not exceeding £5,000 a year for five years on the production of alcohol from cassava or similar starch-bearing vegetable products. It is not a simple bounty bill, such as many that have come before this House. There are connected with or arising out of the principles of the bill many important issues which require to be taken into consideration before the measure in its present form is accepted. There are many big questions bound up with it of which honorable members may not be entirely aware. So important do I regard this matter that, if the second reading of the bill is carried, I intend to move that it be referred to a select committee for inquiry into some of the questions to which I shall refer directly, so that the House may be fully informed as to all its possibilities before the measure is passed into law. It is very unsatisfactory and difficult te deal with a technical measure in this House. Many questions of a. technical character cannot be gone into sufficiently fully in the circumstances in which a bill of this kind has to be debated. They can only be properly inquired into by a select committee devoting itself to that purpose. It is necessary^ however, that I should indicate, in general terms, the issues which occur to my mind in con- 'nexion with the bill. As the Minister in charge of it suggested, it looks an innocent measure, but babies sometimes grow up to be giants. I think the future should be safeguarded by full consideration of the issues which may arise under this bill before we commit ourselves to the first steps along what may be found in the future to be a rather dangerous line of procedure. I trust the House will bear with me while I try to put before it some of the considerations I have in mind. The bill is to encourage the production of alcohol from starch-bearing plants. The principal commercial source of alcohol throughout the world to-day consists of materials which produce naturally either starch or sugar. All those different forms of vegetation which produce starch or sugar are the cheapest and most common forms for the production of alcohol. Starch may bo converted into sugar, and sugar by fermentation into alcohol, and so we get the product required. 'With certain exceptions,, to which I shall refer later, those are the principal sources of alcohol in the world to-day. At the same time they are the most important sources of food for all animals including man. All the most important supplies of food are being exploited throughout the world. . The necessities of the human race require this if it is to continue its existence. All proposals to use any such natural products as these on a large scale for alcohol production must be considered in their relation to the food requirements of the world. It may be said that this is a very small and innocent measure, and it is unjustifiable to assume that it might interfere with the food supplies of this country or of the world; but before I have finished I think it will be admitted that I have some justification for raising in the minds of honorable members a certain degree of alarm on this point. The increasing populations of the world are demanding larger and larger food supplies. *We* know perfectly well that there are large hordes of the human race to-day insufficiently fed because they cannot afford to buy enough food. To use large areas of land to produce alcohol instead of foodstuffs must have the effect of reducing the actual or potential food supplies of the world, and thus increase the price of food. That they may know that this is no ' mere chimera of my brain, I inform honorable members that in July, 1913, there was a great motor transport conference held in England which was attended by over 200 delegates, I believe from all parts of the world. It constituted a motor fuel committee specially to inquire into the question of power alcohol for fuel for motor purposes. This committee issued a questionnaire, which was distributed by thousands all over the British Empire. I was at that time in charge of a government department, and received some copies of this questionnaire, and I know that very many were distributed throughout Australia. It made definite and careful inquiries as to supplies of material now or potentially available for this purpose. A most exhaustive inquiry was undertaken, and I think it was some three or four years later that this committee, after full inquiry, issued a report in which it said that it was impossible to contemplate the production of power alcohol on any scale likely to effect any serious economy in the production of power for the world's requirements, without seriously interfering with the food supplies of the world. The only exception suggested was that by some chance some great discovery, at present unexpected, might be made of some rapidlygrowing tropical vegetation, naturally recouping itself, and bearing a large "proportion of starch or sugar, whilst being useless for any other purpose. That condition has never been fulfilled. The Imperial Government appointed a departmental committee to make inquiries along the same lines, in October, 1918. This committee reported in July, 1919, and the substance of its report was that alcohol could not be made from foodstuffs without a bounty. The committee mentioned other sources of alcohol to which I shall refer later. In a special article published in the *Times* of November, 1918, just after the appointment of this committee the following facts were- stated : - In 1916-7, when every war effort in England was at its maximum, and every nerve was strained to try to produce alcohol for power purposes, the production of industrial alcohol had reached upwards of 4,000,000 gallons a year. That does not seem to be a very large amount, yet it was the maximum war effort of Great Britain at the time. The report went on to say - >The alcohol thus obtained has been derived practically entirely from material otherwise available as food, and, indeed, in the case of molasses has been secured at the serious expense of the supplies ordinarily employed for stock feeding. Our own Institute of Science and Industry published bulletins and articles dealing with this subject in 1918, 1919, and 1921, and the conclusion come to in those reports was that alcohol could only be made from foodstuffs with the aid of a bounty mainly because of the costs incurred by fiscal restraints. {: .speaker-KYV} ##### Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP -- That means that we must continue the bounty year after year. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- That is just the impression I wish to convey to honorable members. It seems extraordinary that we should be asked to pay a bounty principally because of the cost of manufacture imposed by our own fiscal restraints, that is to say, by the precautions necessary to protect the revenue in the matter of the production of alcohol in other directions. Although the reports of the Institute of Science and Industry do not contribute anything new on the subject, they collate from various sources information which is very valuable to us. Among other matters they emphasize is the fact that the calorific power of alcohol is inferior to that of petrol. I think I. am correct in saying that it is not more than 75 per cent, of that of petrol. {: .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr Fenton: -- But it is very good if it is mixed with other fuels. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- If it has to be mixed with other fuels there must be a readjustment of costs. One thing must be taken at a time. We are now considering power alcohol on the basis of the price of the material used in its manufacture. If we have to add something to it to make it effective, the price of that other material must also be taken into account. The reports of the Institute of Science and Industry indicate that special methods are required to apply alcohol to ordinary power uses, that is to say, mechanism which is suitable for petrol is not in every way suitable for alcohol. {: .speaker-KLL} ##### Mr Makin: -- The change which is necessary is very slight. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- I admit that machinery can be easily adapted for the use of power alcohol, but it means that there must be a different machine in the motor, or two forms of mechanism must be employed for alternate use. Valuable as the reports of the Institute of Science and Industry may be as a collation of data up to a certain point, they are out of date and need reconstruction. They take as their basis of comparison the price of 3s. 6d. per gallon for petrol, whereas now the price is 2s. 3d. per gallon. A proposal based on a price of 3s. 6d. per gallon . might have some 'features to recommend it, .but these may be entirely removed by the fact that the price of petrol has dropped considerably. lt would be fallacious indeed for this Parliament to accept this bill on a recommendation of the Institute of Science and Industry, which is already out of date in an important respect, and it is obvious that if on its recommendation a bounty is required for the production of power alcohol to compete with petrol at 3s. 6d. per gallon, that bounty must be very largely increased when the price of petrol has fallen to 2s. 3d. per gallon. I could say a great deal more on the general aspects of this question, but I do not wish to inflict on honorable members a long, wearisome and rather technical dis:sertation. I simply want to indicate that there are. beneath the surface some farreaching considerations which it would be very wrong for Parliament to pass over without' the fullest and most careful inquiry. First of all, it appears to me that the need for the payment of a bounty has not been shown. We are told that the measure has been brought forward mainly to encourage the operations of a company which is proposing to plant cassava. It is said that if the bounty is paid the machinery employed in the sugar industry, which now lies idle during a certain part of the year, can be employed during that period in the production of alcohol, and that some of the labour which is engaged for part of the year only in the sugar industry will, during the rest of the year, be applied to the production of cassava. It is said that this, is very desirable, and that, therefore, we should grant this bounty. To me that is an extraordinary process of reasoning. The sugar industry already has immense assistance given to it for one very important reason, namely that the men employed in it work during a restricted season only. If we can produce another crop which can be grown inthe balance of the year, and if we get employed for the whole of the year, not only the labour, but also the machinery which is now idle for portion of the year, that should be regarded as a reason not for the payment of a new bounty, but for the reduction of the existing bounty on sugar. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- There is no bounty on sugar. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- There is certainly no bounty paid on sugar production, but if the honorable member pretends that the sugar industry is not directly subsidized, he cannot see a hole through a wall. Cassava, about which we have heard so much, but of which, probably, most of us knowvery little, is a shrub that develops foots which are large store houses of starch. It is the plant from which the tapioca of commerce is made. It is, therefore, a very valuable and well recognized food substance for the human race, and my remarks about the treatment of material which could otherwise be used for food supplies have a very direct and pertinent bearing. It is an expensive crop to work, much more expensive than wheat. {: .speaker-K1J} ##### Mr Pratten: -- On whose authority does the honorable member make that statement ? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- I think it will be found in the reports of the Institute of Science and Industry, or else in a very useful book to be found in the Library called *Power Alcohol,* which deals very exhaustively with cassava. Almost any textbook on the subject will corroborate my statement that cassava is much more expensive to grow than wheat. A root crop always requires a great deal of cultivation. The Minister **(Mr. Pratten)** admits that this is a great experiment. He hopes that it will be so successful that the production of power alcohol will be sufficient to replace the whole of our present petrol supplies. That is a very large order, and I want the Minister and the House to consider what it really means. The evidence I have already submitted to the House from the British Committee and the Commonwealth Institute of Science and Industry, which was corroborated by the interjection of the honorable member for South Sydney, indicates that the bounty will need to be permanent. Alcohol cannot be produced from these sources without a bounty, which, once granted, must be continued. Without such artificial aid the industry could not endure under existing economic conditions. Leaving out of account the political pressure which may be exercised by industries developed by public money in this way. whatwill this bounty ultimately cost the Commonwealth.? The consumption of petrol for this year is estimated to be 81,000,000 gallons. Disregarding the lower calorific value of alcohol as compared with petrol, if the ambition of the Minister for Trade and Customs to entirely replace petrol by alcohol is to be realized, Australia must produce at least 81,000,000 gallons of alcohol per annum. That, indeed, is the purpose of the bill, but is it practicable? Mr.Forde. - Would it not be a good thing to produce even 8,000,000 gallons of alcohol, and use only 73,000,000 gallons of petrol? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- The alleged purpose of this bill is to bring about the entire displacement of petrol by alcohol. If Australia does produce 81,000,000 gallons of alcohol, the proposed bounty of 4d. per gallon will eventually amount to, not a paltry £5,000 per annum, but £1,350,000 per annum. If, as has been estimated, 35 gallons of alcohol can be obtained from 1 ton of cassava, the country will require to produce ultimately 2,300,000 tons of cassava. The yield per acre of cassava has naturally been estimated very favorably, but from the authorities I have consulted. I find that it varies from 21/2 to 15 tons per acre. Assuming an average of 7 tons per acre, the production of 2,300,000 tons of cassava will mean the use of 300,000 acres of land, and the diversion to this purpose of over 2,000,000 tons of potential foodstuffs. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- The land that will be used to grow cassava does not produce wheat ? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Wheat is not the only food crop. If cassava can be grown on any land successfully, that land is suitable for producing root crops for food. In fact, cassava itself' is an important food crop. {: .speaker-K4M} ##### Mr Cook: -- Where could we get a market for it? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- A market for foodstuffs will always be provided by the hungry stomachs of millions of people in Europe. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- We could not send the cassava there. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Only because we have not realized the potentialities of this country, because we have not the necessary organization, and because some people find it easier to come to the Government for a bounty than to bestir themselves, and find an outlet for their produce. Can any honorable member doubt that the diversion of 2,000,000 tons of potential foodstuffs Will eventually affect the food markets of this country? In addition to paying more for its food, the public will be required to find over £1,250,000 for the payment of the bounty on the production of power alcohol. After all is said and done, what do we know about cassava? I have been astonished by some of the statements that have been made during the course of this debate. When the Minister for Trade and Customs was speaking the honorable member for Maribyrnong **(Mr. Fenton)** interjected, " Where has cassava been experimented with? " The Minister replied, "I am unable to say, but it is clear that a company which sends a representative from England, and after consultation with the Queensland Ministry is willing to invest £50,000 in the industry, is not doing so without due investigation." {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- The company expects to spend £1,000,000. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Surely a company which acts in this way on the expectation of a Government bounty is not to be accepted as our guide. Is the Minister prepared f.o recommend the expenditure of this money merely on the recommendation of an interested party? His statement suggests that he has made no investigation, but is acting on the *ipso dixit* of a company which submits to him a glorious scheme and asks for a Government subsidy. The claim seemed to him to justify the expenditure. He said that he did not know of any experiments with cassava, but during the debate we learned that cassava was at one time grown in parts of Australia. Why its production has been abandoned I do not know, but (his Parliament should certainly find out. Surely we should be guided by independent information, and not merely accept the statement of a company that comes before Parliament, cap in hand, for assistance. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- The Queensland Government is prepared to provide £25,000. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- If the honorable member for Wide Bay is prepared to commend the financial actions of the Queensland Government as a pattern to be followed by this Parliament, I differ from him. Within 24 hours of the introduction of this bill statements foreshadowing a demand for an increase in the bounty appeared in the press. . Past experience warns us of the developments that may be expected from this modest commencement. It is very easy to recommend the payment of a bounty which is so small as to be not worth quibbling about, but we know that once the thin edge is inserted the thick body of the wedge will* follow. Grant this small bounty now, and this Parliament will be requested to pay a higher bounty per gallon, involving a bigger annual outlay. If Parliament is to start upon this course it should do so with its eyes open : it should not act without definite and independent data. Several features of the bill prove to me that the Minister has shown a very indifferent regard for his duty to supply this House with full information. The bill requires that the bounty shall be paid only on alcohol which conforms to the spirits regulations. Those regulations specify that the spirit shall be not less than 60 per cent, overproof, which equals 87 per cent, of alcohol. According to' the reports of the Bureau of Science and Industry, engines require spirit that is 70 per cent, overproof, equalling 95 per cent, of alcohol, or 8 per cent, above the standard specified in the spirit regulations. Therefore, if this provision in the bill is accepted there will be no guarantee that the spirits produced will be of the strength and quality required for power purposes. The expense of raising spirit from 87 to 95 per cent, of alcohol is a Very serious consideration. It is comparatively easy to improve spirit to make the percentage of alcohol fairly high, but the final refinement and the elimination of the last traces of water is *a* difficult process, and more costly than all the preceding stages. This apparently trivial, but highly important, difference of 8 per cent, in alcoholic strength may damn the whole enterprise. Whether the Customs Department is aware of that point I do not know, but certainly some additional safeguard should1 be inserted in the bill. The suggestion has been made that the bounty should not be confined to alcohol produced from' the materials mentioned in the bill. The honorable member for Capricornia has spoken of the necessity for including alcohol produced from molasses. I do not propose to discuss the pros and cons of that suggestion. T. have no desire to appear prejudiced. If I speak strongly it is only because I am endeavouring to prove that there are grounds for inquiry, but if a select committee is appointed, I, as a member of it, will endeavour to ensure that the whole subject 'shall be impartially investigated. I may be wrong in some of the arguments I have been advancing. {: .speaker-KZA} ##### Mr West: -- There is not much doubt about that. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- I shall be perfectly willing to be shown wherein I am wrong, but I am dealing with a subject of which I claim to know at least as much as any other member of this House. I do not wish honorable members to think that my mind is already made up ; I am merely seeking a thorough inquiry into this proposal. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · LP; NAT from 1917 -- Has not the Tariff Board inquired into it? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Some honorable members seem to regard the tariff board as an olympian body that is capable of dealing with every and any kind of question submitted to it. I have always contended that the board is not, and cannot be, omniscient, and the subject-matter of this bill is a technical one which the Tariff Board could not possibly investigate thoroughly, because it has not the capacity to analyse and otherwise test the evidence submitted to it. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- Do honorable members possess that capacity? {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Some do. I have been trying to convince honorable members that there is much in this proposal that reqiures investigation. The very facts that I am putting before honorable members suggest that there is room for further investigation, and that as far as can be gathered from the speech of the Minister, and from articles published in the press about power alcohol, many aspects of the subject have not even been considered . {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- The honorable member suggests that power alcohol should be made from molasses. That is not intended, because in Queensland power alcohol is made only from surplus molasses. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- I did not say anything about surplus molasses. I simply said that the matter had been referred to. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr Corser: -- It would not pay to make alcohol from molasses that was not surplus. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- I do not know the difference between molasses and surplus molasses; perhaps the honorable member will tell me. The committees of investigation appointed at Home and elsewhere have referred fully to other possible sources of alcohol, and, after all, we must take these into account. Although honorable members have heard a great deal about power alcohol, they perhaps do not know of the research work that is being carried out in other parts of the world respecting other sources of alcohol. Surely we should know about them before we agree to give a bounty on power alcohol. Investigations concerning other sources of alcohol have been going on for some time. There is the production of alcohol from cellulose, which, I admit, is *n* rather dubious source of alcohol. The cost of the production and the nature of the wood are very important factors in. that process, and it is certainly doubtful whether it could be employed here. Since the reports from the Institute of Science and Industry have come to hand, much progress has been made in the production of alcohol, and further facts are obtainable. To-day we must keep pace with technical investigations of this kind. It has been generally recognized elsewhere that alcohol cannot be produced from food supplies without the assistance of a bounty, and for that reason technical skill has been devoted to other sources of alcohol to try to obtain an economical process. Alcohol can be obtained from the great *peat* bogs of the world. More important and, perhaps, more promising is the production of synthetic alcohol, which, of course, does not affect food supplies at all. It has already been successfully produced on a large scale. Until recently there has been an objection to this process, because the synthetic production of alcohol causes a hig diversion of coal and the consumption of the fuel supplies of the world. But here again I point out that the whole aspect of the question has, during the last year or two, apparently. undergone an immense change. No one could read the cabled reports of the last week or two without knowing, something of the glut in the coal industry of the world and the need of the coal producing countries to find some method of extracting power alcohol from coal. We cannot but realize that this is probably the most reasonable and hopeful line of technical investigation and research not only for the production of a power that could compete with petrol, but also to overcome the great trouble which has arisen in the coal industry. A large amount of synthetic alcohol is to-day actually being exported from Europe. Petrol has beaten coal, and this is responsible for the slump in the coal requirements of the Old World. Is it feasible that alcohol can be expected to beat petrol under tlie conditions that I have outlined ? We should keep in full touch with all the latest developments respecting synthetic alcohol. I suggest that I have shown to honorable members sufficient grounds for delaying the bill. This House, to tackle this subject successfully, should insist upon a more careful inquiry, and not accept this innocent looking bill at its face value. I do not want the Minister to misunderstand me. I know the importance of producing cheap power. Everybody does. {: .speaker-KZA} ##### Mr West: -- We have to tackle the subject. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- Of course we have to tackle it; but we shall not get power cheaply if we have to pay highly for it in another way. What is the use of calling it cheap power if money is taken from one pocket and put into the other. As sane men we must try to develop a source of power along permanently and rationally sound lines. The present proposal is to pay a bounty of £5,000 per annum to a company on a more or less problematical venture. As a matter of fact, we are being asked to pay the cost of the experiments of the company. {: .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde: -- Not at all. In reality nothing will be paid until the company produces alcohol. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- The company knows that it will be recouped for any commercial loss. {: .speaker-K6S} ##### Mr CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · LP; NAT from 1917 -- Nonsense ! {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- If the company produced the quantity of alcohol necessary to obtain a bounty of £5,000 annually, even at a loss of £2,000, it would still make a profit of £3,000. {: .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde: -- A bounty on molasses would enable alcohol to be produced successfully. {: .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN: -- The honorable member should be able to see a little further than that. This measure affects the whole nation; it is not confined to the interests of one local group or state. I invite the House to follow the example of the House of Commons, which declines to deal with technical matters until they have been referred to a select committee for thorough investigation and report. Much of our legislation would proceed on sounder line3 if we followed that example. At a later stage I shall move that a select committee be appointed to report on the bill, and also on some of the important considerations that I have endeavoured, I am afraid, imperfectly, to lay before .the House. Knowing a little, as I do, about this subject, I see some pitfalls ahead of us, and I should fail in my duty if I did not try to put my experience and the little knowledge that I possess at the disposal of honorable members, and to warn them against the possible danger of venturing upon enterprises which they do not properly understand, and which may lead them into consequences that they little foresee. {: #subdebate-72-0-s2 .speaker-KLL} ##### Mr MAKIN:
Hindmarsh .- The honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Mann)** stated that he felt that he had adduced sufficient evidence to warrant a further delay in the granting of a bounty for the production of power alcohol. My complaint is that this measure has been delayed far too long. There is everincreasing difficulty in providing propellant power for the requirements of this country. The honorable member oxpressed the view that some committee cf this House or of experts should investigate this important subject. He may not be aware that a committee of this House has recently been inquiring into petroleum supplies and the production of power alcohol and other- forms of propellant power. I have a shrewd suspicion that this legislation has been inspired to some extent .by the deliberations of that committee. I agree with the Minister's statement that the amount proposed for the bounty, is modest. It is far too modest, and certainly should have been more substantial. It is not advisable to confine the granting of a bounty for the production of power alcohol to cassava' and other starchbearing plants. Recent research and local circumstances in Australia demand that the bounty should be more farreaching than is proposed in the bill. An important line of investigation has been successfully followed by an eminent Australian physician and surgeon, who for some years past has devoted himself to scientific research ; I refer to **Dr. Sinclair,** of Coogee, New South. Wales, who has recently produced power alcohol from prickly pear. That being so, and in view of the fact that the prickly pear at present constitutes a pest, it is desirable that every effort should be made to utilize it to advantage in the production of power alcohol. Before a committee of this House, **Dr. Sinclair** stated that the prickly pear may yet prove to be a great blessing to Australia. If he is able to convert this curse into a blessing, he will take his place among those who are regarded as the great men of this continent. The production of power alcohol is closely associated with one of our most valuable industries - the sugar industry. The honorable member for Capricornia **(Mr. Forde)** has already, in an able ' speech, placed this aspect of the question before the House. During recent years, those engaged in the sugar industry in Australia have experienced anxious times, as they have had difficulty in 'obtaining markets for their product, while that which has been disposed of has been sold in unfavorable markets. Sugar cane is rich in those properties which are necessary for the production of power alcohol, and by obtaining fuel from this source we should not only provide ourselves with a valuable commodity, but also help an industry which is greatly in need of assistance. The provisions of this bill should be extended to apply to other than cassava and starchy foods; they should apply to the prickly pear particularly, and also to any other form of vegetation from which power alcohol can be produced. Those who are in a position to know have stated that, at the present rate of consumption, the world's known supplies of petroleum will last for fifteen to '25 years only. But as the rate of consumption is increasing rapidly - during the last two and a half years, our imports have increased by from 100 per cent, to 150 per cent. - it will be seen that that period is likely to' be considerably reduced. It is therefore incumbent on us to do something to provide ourselves with a satisfactory substitute ; and in view of the fact that the discovery of petroleum in Australia has not to the moment been made in payable quantities, we must, for our own future security and advancement, encourage the production of power supplies from alcohol. If the necessary assistance is given to the industry at this stage, I believe that the time will come when there will be no need for a bounty. Nevertheless, we must remember . that formidable opposition must be expected from the big oil interests, which will from the very inception, do all in their power to prevent power alcohol from being placed on the Australian market. For that reason the industry should have our assistance. The excise authorities are much too conservative in their attitude towards the denaturing of spirit. An effective denaturant could, at less than the present cost, and with advantage to the industry, be substituted for that which we have today. During the last year or two there have been slight modifications of the requirements respecting the denaturing of spirit, but they have not been sufficient. Something further along those lines should be done. When power alcohol was introduced into France, the great oil interests there recognized it as a formidable rival to their product, and exerted all their influence to prevent its use. It was eventually found necessary to provide that a certain percentage of alcohol should be mixed with all the petroleum spirit which was imported into France. By that means, encouragement was given to the new industry, while at the same time the opposition of the great oil interests was checked. The experience of France and of other countries will be repeated in Australia unless effective measures are taken to prevent it. T hope that the Minister will be prepared ;o further encourage this industry by making the bounty applicable also to power alcohol produced from sugar cane and other forms of vegetation. In the district of Barker, in. South Australia, some of the residents have . interested themselves in growing other vegetation from which power alcohol can be obtained, and I should be pleased to support the honorable member for Barker **(Mr. M. Cameron)** in any effort that he might make to extend the provisions of this bill to assist them. It may be argued that, while we have not yet discovered in Australia . petroleum oil in payable quantities, we have valuable shale oil deposits from which fuel may be obtained; and these are worthy of our support and further interest; but I contend that certain of them are too valuable as a source f or the supply of lubricants to allow of their general and unlimited use for power supplies. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr Gregory: -- Lubricants cannot be obtained from shale oil. {: .speaker-KLL} ##### Mr MAKIN: -- Everything that is possible should be done to encourage the production of power alcohol in Australia, as so much depends 011 it. {: #subdebate-72-0-s3 .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr GREGORY:
Swan -- I urge the House to agree to the proposal foreshadowed by the honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Mann),** and to appoint a select committee to consider this matter. This bill should be thoroughly investigated before we pass it. It surprises me that so many honorable members are ready, without the proper investigation of a proposal, to dip their hands, so to speak, into other people's pockets to provide money for ventures of this sort. It may be said that the provision of £5,000 is " only a little thing," but I am satisfied that if we pass the bill there will be a demand in the future for a larger subsidy, and, ultimately, for a duty on motor fuel. Cheap motor fuel is essential for the development of this country, and I hope that nothing will be done to make it dearer. The honorable member for Hindmarsh **(Mr. Makin)** urged that we should not use our shale deposits for the production of fuel oil, because they were too valuable for the production of lubricants. He has evidently been misinformed, for although Australian shales yield a fair percentage of kerosene, they do not yield the lubricating oils required for heavy motors. {: .speaker-KLL} ##### Mr Makin: -- The Newnes shale deposits are the richest in the world. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr GREGORY: -- The honorable member is wrong in that statement. While those shales produce lubricating oils suitable for low-power engines, they do not produce lubricants fit even for a tractor, let alone a locomotive. I feel quite certain that every member of this House is satisfied that a bounty of £5,000 willbe of little use to this company. The honorable member for Wide Bay **(Mr. Corser)** said that the company was investing £1,000,000. If that is so, will it be influenced by a bounty of £5,000? It will not, of course, be satisfied with £5,000, but will come forward later and say that the bounty is not sufficient, to enable it to compete with the importers of petrol. It has to be further borne in mind that the whole of the £5,000 will not be paid to the distillers, for the growers will receive some of it. This country cannot afford to pay a heavier duty on petrol, for the motor car and tractor have become essential to national development. Surely honorable members do not want to make the life of the man on the land harder by increasing the cost of production. Almost everything done by Parliament in the last four or five years has tended to increase the cost of production. An example of the. effect of increasing the cost of production is seen in the Mount Morgan mine, which supports tens of thousands of people, and may have to close down in the near future. It lost £170,000 last year, not because of a decrease in the quality of the output, but because of the increase in the costs of production. The future prosperity of Australia depends upon keeping the costs of production low. {: .speaker-KJM} ##### Mr Jackson: -- The low duty on petrol does not make' it cheap in Australia. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr GREGORY: -- If thehonorable member can show me that a higher duty would make petrol cheaper, I shall be surprised. I hope the Government will agree to the bill being referred to a committee. {: .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde: -- The committee should present its report within a reasonable time. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr GREGORY: -- It should be required to report within five or six weeks. Parliament should come to a determination this session, and nothing should be done to prevent it from doing so. {: #subdebate-72-0-s4 .speaker-JZK} ##### Mr COLEMAN:
Reid .- Although I am aperfervid protectionist, and do not usually see eye to eye with the honorable member for Swan **(Mr. Gregory)** or the honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Mann),** I now find myself in almost entire agreement with the amendment foreshadowed by the latter. I have been induced to agree with him by a careful study of the secondreading speech of the Minister for Trade and Customs **(Mr. Pratten).** Reading between the lines of that speech, I gather that even the Minister regards the provision of this bounty as more or less experimental. The mixed reception that the bill has received justifies honorable members in referring it to a committee. The committee should report within a maximum period of six weeks. If the honorable member for Perth would agree to a time limit being fixed, every member of the House should accept his amendment. If the acceptance of the amendment would seriously delay the ultimate determination of this vital question, I should oppose it, but it would not do so, and it is a quite reasonable proposition. The subject is one of very great importance. The honorable member for Capricornia **(Mr. Forde),** who contributed an excellent speech to this discussion, and displayed the results of a large amount of research, has expressed dissatisfaction with the bill because the bounty is inadequate and no assistance is provided for the production of power alcohol from molasses. On the other hand, the honorable member for Macquarie **(Mr. Manning),** has given notice of an amendment to extend the bounty to power alcohol produced from prickly pear. The Minister stated in his speech that the possibility of the commercial production of power alcohol from prickly pear had " not yet been proved." All these questions should be properly considered. The more I see of the way in which legislation is pushed through this House without adequate time for deliberation, the more I am convinced of the value of the practice of the House of Commons of referring to committees important questions involving the expenditure of public money. The proposed expenditure is limited in this instance, but in the future, if the industry is established, it will probably be very greatly increased. I am reluctantat all times to oppose bills de signed to assist in the economic development of Australia. I recognize the importance of encouraging the production of power alcohol, but at the same time I urge that such a big subject should be properly investigated by a committee appointed for the purpose. Parliament could then be informed of all the facts. The committee could ascertain whether the proposed bounty is adequate, and consider also the incidental fact that the price of petrol has been decreasing. Whether this country can produce power alcohol on a satisfactory basis, in view of the possibility of further reductions in the price of petrol, is a question that should be investigated. I sincerely trust that the Minister will accept the suggestion of the honorable member for Perth. Ican see no logical reason for opposing it. The bill is not urgent, and as it involves the expenditure of public money, it could well be delayed for a month or six weeks. {: .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde: -- It provides that the bounty shall not be paid until the 1st January next. {: .speaker-JZK} ##### Mr COLEMAN: -- What reason, therefore, can there be for rushing it through now? I advise the Minister to accept the suggestion. I agree, in the main, with his protectionist policy, and any criticism I might offer of it would be on the ground that it does not go far enough, but the reference of the bill to a committee is very necessary. Question resolved in the affirmative. Bill read a second time. {: #subdebate-72-0-s5 .speaker-KMQ} ##### Mr MANN:
Perth . - I move- {: type="1" start="1"} 0. That the bill be referred to a select committee. 1. That such committee consist of **Mr. M.** Cameron, **Mr. Coleman, Mr. Forde, Mr. A.** Green, **Mr. Gregory, Mr. Seabrook,** and the Mover, five to form a quorum; with power to send for persons, papers, and records, to adjourn from place to place, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken; and that such committee do report this day six weeks. Debate (on motion by **Mr. Pratten)** adjourned. {: .page-start } page 1421 {:#debate-73} ### RAILWAYS BILL {:#subdebate-73-0} #### Second Reading {: #subdebate-73-0-s0 .speaker-KHG} ##### Mr HILL:
Minister for Works and Railways · Echuca · CP -- I move - That the billbe now read a second time. This is a very short bill, and proposes that the maximum salary that can be paid to the Railways Commissioner shall be £3,000 per annum. It does not provide that the present Commissioner or his successor shall be paid at that rate, hut it gives the Government the power to pay a Salary not. exceeding that rate to the present Commissioner or his successor. As a matter of fact, the Government proposes to pay the present Commissioner £2,600 a year. {: .speaker-JXA} ##### Mr Charlton: -- What is he receiving now? {: .speaker-KHG} ##### Mr HILL: -- He is now receiving £2,000 a year. He came to the service of the Commonwealth in 1914 at a salary of £1,800. The salary was raised to £2,000 in 1917, and has not since been increased. The salaries paid to railway commissioners in Australia and throughout the world have materially increased of late years. The responsibilities of the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, who also acts as EngineerinChief of the Commonwealth Railways, have greatly increased. **Mr. Bell** has under his supervision at the present time, amongst other things, the construction of the railway bridge over the Katherine River in the Northern Territory; the extension of the railway to Daly Waters, a distance of 160 miles; the survey of wharf site and route for a railway, Pellew Island to Borroloola, Northern Territory, and the design of wharf and railway in connexion therewith; the design and lay-out of new shipping arrangements, wharf, &c, at Darwin ; and with the Chief Commissioner of New South Wales, and the Commissioner of Queensland Railways, is in control of uniform-gauge works, embracing (a) the construction of the standard-gauge railway, Kyogle, New South Wales, to South Brisbane, Queensland; *(b)* the relaying and relocating of the Grafton 'to Kyogle railway ; the extension of the QueanbeyanCanberra railway, including the construction of bridges over the Molonglo River and Jerrabomberra Creek, the design of special station accommodation at Canberra; the taking over of the management and maintenance of the Port Augusta-Oodnadatta railway from the 1st January, 1925; the survey and construction of the first section of the north-south railway; and the construction of a direct broad-gauge railway from Port Augusta towards Adelaide. In the circumstances. I suggest that the present Commonwealth Railways Commissioner is not being adequately paid. I may state, for the information of the House," that the Chief Railways Commissioner of New South Wales receives £5.000 per annum, and two Assistant Commissioners receive £2,500 each, a total of £10,000 per annum. In Victoria the Chief Commissioner receives £5,000 a year, two assistants £1,750 each, a total of £8,500. In South Australia the Chief Commissioner receives £5,000 a year, and an Assistant Commissioner £1,350, a 'total of £6,350. The Queensland Railways Commissioner receives £2,000 a year, the Deputy Commissioner £1,000, and a third Commissioner, £900, a total of £3,900. In Western Australia the Railways Commissioner receives £2,000, in Tasmania the Commissioner receives £2,000, and in New Zealand the Commissioner of Railways receives £2,500 a year. It is understood that the general manager of the Midland Railway, Western Australia, receives a salary of £2,000 a year, and the right to take fees for outside work. I am informed that this is so, but I make the statement subject to correction. I have had some little to do with **Mr. Bell** during the last ten or twelve months, and when we realize the enormous amount of work he has to perform, the responsibilities devolving upon him, and the fact that federal property totalling in value something like £12,000,000 is under his control, it will be admitted that it would be false economy to appoint to his position a man who did not possess the highest talent and experience. {: .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr Gabb: -- Will the honorable gentleman tell us what the Commonwealth is losing on its railways? {: .speaker-KHG} ##### Mr HILL: -- In answer to the honorable member I may say that if any state has an unprofitable proposition it tries to foist it upon the Federal Government, whilst it retains for itself any profitable enterprise. As I have said, the bill has for its object the raising of the salary which can be paid to the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner- to a maximum of , £3,000 per annum. {: #subdebate-73-0-s1 .speaker-JXA} ##### Mr CHARLTON:
Hunter -- *7* do not intend to oppose the bill, but itcomes somewhat as a surprise, in view of the statement made this afternoon that the Commonwealth railways are making a very heavy loss. I say at once that that is no reason why a man in the position of Railways Commissioner should not be given adequate remuneration for the services he renders the country. If we compare the salary paid to **Mr. Bell** with the salaries paid to railways commissioners in some of the larger states, we shall find that the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner receives very much less than do some of the state commissioners. **Mr. Bell** may feel that for his services he is entitled to similar remuneration to that paid to. the Chief Railways Commissioners in the states. I believe that he is a very competent man for the position he occupies. I know of no complaint against his administration since he has held that position. I know, too, that he is very attentive to the duties of his office. It does not follow that because there is a loss on the operations of the Commonwealth railways **Mr. Bell** is in any way to blame for it. I agree with the Minister that it would be absolutely impossible for any man to make the Commonwealth railways pay at this juncture. Whatever the future may bring forth, no man who voted for the construction of the transcontinental railway, or the taking over of the Northern Territory railway anticipated that they would be profitably operated for some years. We must have population in the Northern Territory, and a considerably larger population along the transcontinental line before a return can be looked for. It was admitted by honorable members when the construction of the transcontinental railway was approved, that it was needed chiefly for defence purposes. I think every one realized that it was absolutely impossible to make it a paying concern from the start. I do not think that any honorable member expects it to be a paying concern in the immediate future. The question is whether the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner, in view of his great responsibilities, and the amount of capital involved in Commonwealth undertakings, is entitled to remuneration something similar to that paid to railways commissioners elsewhere. Looking at the matter from that point of view I do not intend to oppose this measure. {: #subdebate-73-0-s2 .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES:
Adelaide .- Looking at the matter from the same point of view as the Leader of the Opposition **(Mr. Charlton),** I do not intend to oppose the bill. In giving reasons for the pro posed increase in the salary of the Commonwealth Railways Commissioner I did not hear the Minister for Works and Railways **(Mr. Hill)** make any mention of the line from Oodnadatta to Alice Springs or from Kingoonya to Alice Springs. Can the honorable gentleman tell me whether this bill is in anticipation of that line being commenced, and, if so, will he say when it is to be commenced ? {: .speaker-KHG} ##### Mr Hill: -- All in good time. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I want to know when that good time will be? {: #subdebate-73-0-s3 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
NAT -- It is perfectly all right. The Government is going to carry out the arrangement entered into with South Australia. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I should like something more definite even than that. I heard the same statement made with the same, assured shake of the head twelve months ago. {: .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr Bruce: -- The Government had not entered into the arrangement then. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- The Prime Minister would do well to pacify South Australia, whose ferocity is pent up at the present moment, and may burst upon him next April. The right honorable gentleman might avoid that calamity by stating now that it is the intention of his Government to build a broad gauge line from either Oodnadatta or Kingoonya. I do not care which of these lines is built. I should like to reply to the Minister for Railways by saying that South Australia did not foist upon the Commonwealth something that would not pay. It gave a great asset to the Commonwealth, but those who have held office in the Commonwealth subsequent to the transfer of the Northern Territory have fallen down upon their jobs, and have not known how to administer it. In saying that, I am not unmindful of the fact that South Australia has supplied more Ministers for Home Affairs than any other state in the Commonwealth. The Leader of the Opposition has suggested that the transcontinental railway was built as a strategic defence line. Nothing of the sort. To his eternal credit be it said, its construction was due to the push and power of **Sir John,** later Lord, Forrest, to get what he required in order to link Western Australia with the rest of the Commonwealth and help to develop it. He secured the railway on the promise that the narrow gauge line from Kalgoorlie to Fremantle would be widened at. the expense of the state, but to-day we 'hear nothing from the state nor from any honorable member representing Western Australia to indicate that it is prepared to honour that contract. {: #subdebate-73-0-s4 .speaker-10000} ##### Mr SPEAKER: -- (Bt. Hon. W. A. Wat] - Order ! The honorable member must not discuss a construction proposal under this Bill. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- In anticipation of your ruling, I was about to connect my remarks with the bill by saying that if we are to. raise the salary of the Commissioner of Railways this is work he should oversee. These are points that occur to one's mind when we get a bill . of this description, and I should be recreant in my duty to the state of South Australia if I did not point out the responsibility the Commonwealth owes to that state in the matter of railway construction. If the salary of the Commissioner is raised he ought to have a job big- enough for the money he gets. {: #subdebate-73-0-s5 .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr GABB:
Angas -- It is remarkable that on the day we have brought tinder our notice the fact that there is a loss of over ?500,000 upon the Commonwealth railways we should also be asked to increase by about 30 per cent, the salary of the gentleman who is controlling those railways. I shall vote, against the bill, and if any one will call " No " with me shall take the matter to a division. I am aware that an honorable member who opposes increases of salary is like one crying in the wilderness. The present tendency in this Parliament is to increase our own salaries and then increase the salaries of heads of departments as a. sort of excuse for increasing our own. "I realize, of course, that the Commonwealth railways could not be worked at a profit, but I know that on the advice of the gentleman who is managing them the Government has recently taken over the running of the line between Quorn and Oodnadatta, with every prospect of increasing the present loss upon it. In the past the staff and rolling stock employed on that railway could be transferred to the haulage of wheat and ore, when cattle were not moving, but now they will remain idle for from five to seven months of the year unless the line is continued to Alice Springs. When the honorable member for. Wimmera **(Mr. Stewart)** was Minister for Works and Railways, I wrote to him pointing out what: the department was doing. It is the same old game - heads of departments trying to increase their departments so that they may draw larger salaries; and recognizing that this is not in the interests of the Commonwealth, I shall vote against the bill. The Prime Minister **(Mr. Bruce)** looks at me for saying that, but as a result of my personal inquiries I guarantee that at the end of twelve months the Commonwealth will find that it is losing money on the Oodnadatta line, and that it would 'have been a far better proposition to leave its control in the hands of the state. The Minister **(Mr. Hill)** has told the House that the Commissioner for Railways in South Australia is paid a . salary of ?5,000 a year. Previously the salary paid was about ?2,000 a year, and at that time the Commissioner was running a bigger proposition than all the Commonwealth railways to-day. Our experience in South Australia is not such as to make us believe that the advent of a ?5,000 man from America will not land us "in the soup." {: .speaker-JY7} ##### Mr Duncan-Hughes: -- Things will work out all right. {: .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr GABB: -- We shall have to wait to see that. The Commissioner is attempting to put into operation a policy suitable for a country with a population of 110,000,000 people, quite forgetful of the fact, that he is dealing with a population of only a few hundred thousand. As I know that this year the loss upon the Commonwealth railways amounts to over ?500,000, if any one else will join with me in calling for a division I shall vote against the bill. {: #subdebate-73-0-s6 .speaker-JSC} ##### Mr BRENNAN:
Batman .- I cannot imagine how we can possibly arouse an animated controversy on so simple a bill. It is of the simplest character. In fact, it is the "most innocuous measure I have ever been called upon to consider. It is more a committee bill than a second-reading bill. It contains one clause only, and although I may be out of order at this stage in referring to clauses the sole proposal of. this solitary clause is to omit the word " two " and insert in lieu thereof tha word "three."- Its charming simplicity appeals to me-. If the figures ran into thousands I could understand the honorable member for Angas **(Mr. Gabb)** discussing the matter with the animation which always characterises him when it is a question of reducing people's emoluments. But I remind the honorable member that the Bole proposal is to substitute " three " for " two." There is only one figure less than " two " and that is " one." If we followed the good example now being set by the Minister, and inthe consideration of the emoluments of honorable members omitted " one " and substituted "two" it is very likely the proposal would have the whole-hearted support of this Parliament with one exception. I do not want it to be thought that I am indulging in any unfriendly criticism of the honorable member for Angas. I have the greatest respect for the courage with which he always supports his opinions, and the fact that on occasions I do not agree with him on such delicate questions as this is probably not his fault, because while he views the matter in the cold light of reason, I confess myself, like other members of this House, gently moved in such matters by self interest. The honorable member suggests that because the Commonwealth railways are not paying, and, infact, are being run at a loss it is unbecoming that before redressing this unfortunate condition of affairs wo should proceed to increase the beggarlysalary drawn by the Commissioner. {: .speaker-K0A} ##### Mr Gabb: -- I believe in paying by results. {: .speaker-JSC} ##### Mr BRENNAN: -- I argue for the sake of argument in quite a different way. I say thatif we are los ing money upon this undertaking as a result of paying our Commissioner £2,000 a year it is perfectly obvious that we must increase his salary, and keep on increasing it until the railways pay. Seeing nothing wrong in that argument, I propose to carry it further, and suggest that the increase should be made general, and applied also to the men employed on the railways. There are many of them whose salaries appear very insignificant when they are compared with those paid to others doing similar work in other departments, and I suggest that the time is ripe, when we are considering the salary of the Commissioner, for reviewins the salaries of the workers employed in the Commonwealth railways and making them nearly appropriate to the services rendered by them. I am afraid I am digressing slightly from the central point of the bill, which is to substitute " three " for " two," but to-day we have been dealing with millions. I could not bring myself to remain in the chamber while the Treasurer read that dreadful message which is known as the budget, but I have heard that it dealt with our £500,000,000 debt, which we seem to take very cheerfully, and that there has also been a proposal to ladle out a bounty for the production of power alcohol. It seems to be a day of beneficence and benevolence with us, and as we are substituting " three " for " two " in regard to the salary of the Commissioner for Railways I suggest that the benevolent spirit manifested to-day and which is so appropriate to the Christmas season be extended to all classes of workers upon- the Commonwealth railways. Debate (on motion by **Mr.** *Foster)* adjourned. {: .page-start } page 1425 {:#debate-74} ### ADJOURNMENT cottongrowing industry- bounty on Cotton Goods. **Mr. BRUCE** (Flinders- Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs. [10.11]. - In moving - >That the House do now adjourn - I desire to make the statement in regard to the cotton industry which I promised earlier in the sitting in answer to questions on the subject. At the present time the Commonwealth Government and the Governments of the states in which cotton is grown are co-operating to encourage the industry by guaranteeing a price for the cotton produced. This is based upon the quality of the cotton, and has varied from 31/2d. to 51/4. per lb. for the cotton seed. This guarantee has encouraged the growing of cotton by assuring to the growers an immediate return upon their product as soon as it reached the ginneries. It has also given considerable stability to the industry. Rut difficulties have arisen in regard to it, and there is a difference of opinion as to whether it provides the best means for assisting the industry. It was recently represented to the Government that a more effective method of stimulating cotton-growing would be to substitute a Commonwealth bounty for the guarantee. This proposal has been very fully considered, and the Government is sympathetically disposed towards it. Ministers believe that, by it, difficulties which have arisen in the industry may be removed. But it is impossible to substitute a bounty system for the present guarantee in relation to the 1925 crop. Beforea bounty can be given it is necessary that a full inquiry shall be conducted by the Tariff Board, and enabling legislation will have to be passed. Careful consideration must also be given tothe organization of the finances of the industry. At present, as I have said,the growers get immediate payment at the guaranteed price when their cotton is delivered at the ginneries, and if a bounty is substituted, we must be satisfied of the arrangements made in this respect. The bounty cannot be arranged for in connexion with the coming crop. But, as honorable members are aware, the planting is now taking place, and any delay in informing the growers as to what is proposed for the present season would interfere with their operations. Consequently I say now that the Government considers it necessary to continue for the financial year 1925-6 the guarantee system which has obtained for the past two years. 1 am in communication with the State Governments concerned, with a view to determining the exact basis upon which the guarantee for the 1925-6 crop shall be given, and I hope to announce at an early date the basis decided upon. The manner in which a bounty can be substituted for the present guarantee system has been referred to the Minister, for Markets and Migration **(Senator Wilson),** so that he may go into the whole subject; and in the event of the substitution of a bounty for the present system of guarantees, make the necessary reference to the Tariff . Board. {: #debate-74-s0 .speaker-KYV} ##### Mr E RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP -- I am very pleased to learn from the statement of the Prime Minister ( **Mr. Bruce)** that it is the intention of the Government to guarantee the price of cotton for the coming season, but I desire to know if assistance is going to stop at that point. We cannot produce -cotton, even with the assistance of a guar antee or a bounty, and send it overseas to compete with the cotton produced in other countries. We should also give some assistance to the cotton manufacturers in the Commonwealth. At present, £15,000,000 worth of manufactured cotton goods is coming into the Commonwealth every year. Some honorable members have had an opportunity of seeing what is being done in New South Wales. 1 trust that at an early date an announcement will be made concerning the policy of the Government in the direction of assisting manufacturers of cotton goods. I believe such a proposal would have the support of a majority of honorable members. Question resolved in the affirmative. House adjourned at 10.19 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 13 August 1925, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1925/19250813_reps_9_111/>.