Mr. Speaker took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.
page 7285
PAPERS
The following papers were presented : - .
Inter-State Commission Act -
Inter- State Commission - Tariff Investigation -
Report - New Industries - Appendices to Reports: Statistical and other information and Evidence -
Miscellaneous Group IV. - Bitu men, Mastic Asphalt, and Powdered Asphalt. Chalk, French, and other preparations of steatite. Filters. Flints for Tube Mills. Glue and Gelatine, Isinglass and Jelly Crystals. Grindstones. Plaster of Paris. Whale Oil.
Miscellaneous Group VI. - Cinematographs and Bioscopes. Fishing Rods and Tackle. Glasses, Field and Marine. Golf Clubs. Photographic Films and Negatives. Sapphires. Spectacle Cases. Teeth, Artificial. Turquoise. Watches, Wooden Plant Pots and Wooden Rules. Wooden Rims for Sieves. Woodware, Printers’.
Machinery : Engines and Boilers, and Machines generally.
Works of Art; Modelled Statues; and Coloured Printed Pictures.
Ordered to be printed.
Lands Acquistion Act -
Land acquired under, at-
Amangula, Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes.
Bherwerre, Federal Territory - For a Port and for Defence purposes.
Goorooyarroo, Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes.
Majura, Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes. .
Molonglo, Federal Territory - For Federal Capital purposes (two Papers).
– I ask the Prime Minister, in regard to the agreement that has been come to for the postponement of the referenda, whether, under the arrangement with the Premiers, the Commonwealth will have power to legislate for the settlement of industrial disputes affecting State railway employees?
Mr HUGHES: Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP
-Neither of the two limitations of the six. proposed laws that were to have been submitted to the people on the 11th December affects in any way the power of the Commonwealth to legislate for the settlement of disputes on Stateowned railways or tramways. The Premiers have stipulated that under the grant of powers, we shall not fix fares or f reights or legislate to affect the control of State railways and tramways, which, of course, it was not intended to attempt.
page 7286
AUTOMATIC TELEPHONE EXCHANGES
Report of the Public “Works Committee relating to the installation of automatic telephone exchanges at Sydney, Malvern, and Collingwood, presented by Mr. Riley, and ordered to be printed.
page 7286
QUESTION
PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE ACT
Mr McWILLIAMS: FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · REV TAR; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; CP from 1920; IND from 1928
– I ask the Minister of Home Affairs whether I rightly understood him to say ‘yesterday that, since the passing of the Public Works Committee Act, a railway was commenced on which 600 men were employed, without the reference of the work to the Public Works Committee?
Mr KING O’MALLEY: Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP
– No. The men now employed on railway construction in the Northern Territory are working on a line that was sanctioned by Parliament before the Committee was established. The railway from the Katherine River to Bitter Springs will be an extension of that line.
page 7286
QUESTION
PRICE OP SCHEELITE
Mr MASSY-GREENE: RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917
– Is the Prime Minister aware that since the arrangement entered into by him with Messrs. Dalgety and Company, the men who gouge scheelite in small quantities, and sell it to local buyers, who supply Dalgety and Company, are getting lower prices for it? Will the honorable and learned gentleman ascertain the cause of this?.
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– I am not aware of the fact stated, and if the honorable member will furnish particulars which will enable the matter to be followed up, I shall make such inquiries as the circumstances may call for. Our desire is that the miners shall not be exploited or interfered with in any way.
page 7286
POSTPONEMENT OF REFERENDA
Mr JOSEPH COOK: PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES
– In to-day’s Argus there is an account of the circumstances leading up to the arrangement between the Prime Minister and the Premiers for the postponement of the referenda, and it is there stated that -
In the meantime the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. J. Cook, Sir WilliamIrvine, and Mr. Watt had consulted, and they entered most readily into the consideration of the matter.
It is only fair to the Prime Minister and to myself to say that during the whole of these proceedings there was not at any time any consultation of any kind.
Dr Carty Salmon:
– Does the right honorable member speak for’ the other honorable members who are mentioned ?
Mr JOSEPH COOK:
– I speak for myself only. I wish to put the matter right as between the Prime Minister and myself.
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– I had not seen the newspaper statement until my attention was drawn to it by theright honorable member. There is no truth whatever in it. Apparently the writer of it placed in juxtaposition the names of a number of prominent men in the hope that some at least might have been concerned in this business, but they can all prove an alibi.
page 7287
QUESTION
WHEAT FREIGHTS
Mr RODGERS: WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917
– Has the Prime Minister abandoned the arrangement for securing freight for farmers and shippers in favour of a scheme under which the Governments of the States will acquire and ship the wheat of Australia?
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– I am sorry that the deliberations of those considering this matter have been so prolonged. The commercial editor of the Argus this morning does us the justice to remark that at least it cannot be said that our deliberations were unduly hurried. The question bristles with difficulties with which we are making an honest attempt to deal; A concrete proposal has been drawn up covering the matter referred to by my honorable friend, and the conference is to meet this morning as soon as the insatiable curiosity of honorable members in regard to this and other matters will permit me to attend it. Directly a decision is come to I shall announce it to the House.
page 7287
QUESTION
FODDER DUTIES
Mr PALMER: ECHUCA, VICTORIA
– Yesterday when I asked when the fodder duties which had been remitted on account of the drought would be restored, the Minister of Trade and Customs replied -
A Minister docs not give notice of his intention to reimpose duties, the first intimation of it being a proposal in Committee.
Am I to gather from that answer that primary producers are to be denied, until Parliament reassembles after the proposed long adjournment, the possible advantages of protection?
Mr TUDOR: Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP
– I have nothing to add to the reply. I shall not give, even five minutes’ notice of the intention of the Government regarding any Tariff item. When the time is considered opportune for the imposition of a duty, that duty will be proposed in Committee without notice to any one.
page 7287
QUESTION
RAILWAY FROM KATHERINE RIVER TO BITTER SPRINGS
Mr GROOM: DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND
– I ask the Minister of Home Affairs whether in his Department there are plans and specifications for the construction of a railway from the Katherine River to Bitter Springs?
Mr KING O’MALLEY: Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP
– I think so. I shall try to put them before honorable members this morning.
page 7287
QUESTION
MELBOURNE HARBOR TRUST
Dr CARTY SALMON:
– I ask the Minister of Trade and Customs whether he has seen the statement of the Chairman of the Melbourne Harbor Trust, that his officers are not responsible for delays that occur, and whether the honorable gentle- man has made any inquiry on the subject?
Mr TUDOR: ALP
– Yesterday I asked the Comptroller-General of Customs to ascertain what is done at the Victoria Docks, and I am informed that the Customs Department does not hold up goods until the whole of them are out of the vessel.
Mr Boyd:
– Nor does the Melbourne Harbor Trust.
Mr TUDOR:
– It is a pity that the honorable member for Grampians cannot address his question publicly to the honorable member for Henty. I think there must be some misapprehension, because I doubt whether the Melbourne Harbor Trust would hold up a whole shipment until the ship was empty, and had practically cleared the port. I will have inquiry made.
page 7287
QUESTION
POSTAL AND TELEGRAPHIC RATES
Mr RILEY: SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES
– Has the PostmasterGeneral yet decided on a revision of the postal and telegraphic rates?
Mr WEBSTER: Postmaster-General · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP
– Owing to the arrangement which has been made with regard to the business to be transacted by the House, I shall not be able to ask Parliament to deal with the new rates prior to the adjournment, but the matter will be dealt with as soon as the House re-assembles.
page 7287
PERSONAL EXPLANATION
Mir. JOSEPH COOK.- I desire to make a personal explanation with regard to a statement which I made in the House two days ago concerning the case of the widow of a soldier and her five children. I said that the woman had received only £4 in the three months which had elapsed since the death of her husband. In justice to the Department, I wish to correct that statement. The widow received two amounts, one of £4 13s., and another in August of £2 8s. The fact remains, however, that she has received only £7 in three months.
page 7288
EXPEDITIONARY FORCES
Disposal or Surplus Pood. - Sorting of Mails. - Soldiers’ Rest Home. - Deserters prom Langwarrin Camp. - Closure of Newcastle Camp.
Mr FENTON: MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA
– I understand that it has been the practice in the military Camps in Victoria to sell to certain persons surplus food, which can be used for feeding pigs, &c. Now there is a proposition to call for tenders for the purchase of this surplus food, with the probability of one big tenderer securing the whole of the supply. Will the Treasurer consult with the Minister of Defence and urge that small tenderers should be given preference over any large contractor.
Mr HIGGS: Treasurer · CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND · ALP
– I shall have the matter brought under the notice of the Minister of Defence immediately.
Mr THOMAS: BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES
– Recently the English mail was delivered in some cases a day later than Egyptian mails which had arrived by the same vessel. I complained to the Department, and was told that some of the bags sent from Egypt had been labelled “ Adelaide,” when they should have been labelled “Melbourne.” I was also told that the sorting of the English mails occupied the whole of the attention of the sorting staff, and that when they were disposed of the Egyptian mails were sorted. I asked that the Egyptian mails should be sorted first, but was told that that course could not be followed, because it would interfere with business. Will the Postmaster-General give instructions that the sorting of Egyptian mails shall take precedence of the sorting of the English mails?
Mr WEBSTER: ALP
– I shall endeavour to provide that the correspondence from our boys at the front is dealt with as expeditiously as possible.
Dr CARTY SALMON:
– In view of the amount of money and material, and also the voluntary labour contributed by the public in fitting up the soldiers’ rest home at Wirth’s Park, and the large voluntary staff engaged there, will the Treasurer, for the Minister for the Navy, inform the House of the number of soldiers who are taking advantage of the accommodation provided ?
Mr HIGGS:
– I shall have the question brought under the notice of the Minister of Defence.
Mr BOYD:
– In view of the answer given by the Defence Department to a question I asked yesterday, will the Prime Minister say whether it is the intention of the Government to see that the threat of the Minister of Defence is carried out, and that the names of the deserters from Langwarrin Camp, who are spreading disease through the country, are published in the newspapers, so that steps may be taken to have them arrested?
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– I am not familiar with the details of this subject, but I shall confer with the Minister of Defence, and inform the House at the next sitting what has been done, and what is intended.
Mr WATKINS: NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES
– In the absence of the Minister for the Navy, is the Treasurer in a position to furnish an answer to the question I asked yesterday regarding Newcastle Camp?
Mr HIGGS:
– At the request of the Minister of Defence, and in the absence of the Minister for the Navy, I desire to read the following reply: -
The following is a copy of a telegram received from Colonel Stanley, Quartermaster-General, who is now in Sydney, with reference to the Newcastle Camp: - “ Position Newcastle Camp as follows : - Recruiting was stopped, and Camp quarantined about month ago. No drafts thence sent Sydney since. Principal Medical Officer requisitioned erection hospital huts consequent increasing sickness. Commandant adopted following alternative. Clear Warwick Farm present occupants, and remove all Newcastle men whose health permits, and isolate them at Warwick Farm. Believed suggested change will give all opportunity regaining health likewise obtaining training beyond elementary stage; furthermore give Newcastle Camp complete airing and probably clean bill health, enabling recommencing recruiting. Medical officer suggestion erection hospital huts Newcastle thus retaining men in infected area indefinitely with possibility increased sickness and serious interruption recruiting only alternative. No intention closing Newcastle recruiting depot one day beyond its getting clean bill of health. Hope fortnight will see Camp re-opened recommend Commandant’s proposal.”
The Minister of Defence has approved of the Commandant’s recommendation.
page 7288
QUESTION
CONTRACTFOR MOTOR LORRIES
Mr HIGGS: ALP
– The honorable member for Grey yesterday asked the following questions of the Minister representing the Minister of Defence: -
What was the name of the firm and lorry who got the recent contract for four 30-cwt. motor lorries?
Were they guaranteed to carry 30cwt.?
Are they Australian made, if not, are any of the parts of Australian make, and, if so, what are the parts?
What is the country of origin that the parts of these lorries come from?
What was the price of each lorry?
The answers are as follow : -
Duncan and Fraser have been allotted contract for four (4) Republic 30-cwt. lorries.
No guarantee was stated in the tender, but it is understood from inquiry they will carry the load stated. They will have to pass a test to the satisfaction of the Examining Officer. 3 and 4. They are of American make, but the bodies are made in Australia.
£484 each.
page 7289
QUESTION
WORK FOR RETURNED SOLDIERS
Mr MAHONY: for Mr. Hampson
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
Whether he is prepared to make a statement in reference to the scheme which Mr. J. C. Watson is organizing with the object of providing work for returned soldiers?
Whether it is intended to appoint a Federal representative in certain districts to superintend the work and act in conjunction with the State and local bodies?
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
Not just at present.
I will bring the matter under the notice of the Parliamentary War Committee with a view to ascertaining the intentions in this direction.
page 7289
QUESTION
IMPORTED TIMBERS FOR HOSPITAL CONSTRUCTION
Mr MAHONY: for Mr. Hampson
asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -
Why is it that so much imported timber is being used at the Base Hospital and Victoria Barracks in the construction of new buildings when the Victorian Railways Commissioners can utilize over 50 per cent. of Australian timber in building first-class carriages and 00 per cent. when building railway waggons?
Mr KING O’MALLEY: ALP
– Imported timbers have been used on some temporary offices at the Victoria Barracks, and at the temporary hospital, Caulfield. The work was of a most urgent character, and suitable Australian timbers were not available, although they would have been given preference in accordance with the policy of the Department. In the permanent additions to the Victoria Barracks now being constructed, provision has been made for the exclusive use of Australian hardwoods.
page 7289
QUESTION
MANUFACTURE OF MUNITIONS
Mr MAHONY: for Mr. Hampson
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
Whether the reports in the press are true that the Government workshops in Queensland propose to turn out 600 high-explosive shell bodies per week, and the Victorian Government workshops 250 per week; further, that the New South Wales railway workshops have tendered for 30,000 shell bodies?
If the press can obtain this information why does the Defence Department refuse to supply the number of shells tendered for, when one can read of the amount of contracts let in Canada for munitions?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The replies are as follow : -
The Government assumes no responsibility for the accuracy or otherwise of the press reports referred to, which were not issued by Defence Department.
It is considered inadvisable that the resources or limitations of Australia in the way of manufacture of shell cases should be officially announced. The Minister is not aware that information published in the press regarding contracts let in Canada has been obtained from reliable sources.
page 7289
QUESTION
SOLDIERS’ DEPENDANTS
Mr PIGOTT: CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
Will he supply each member with a list giving the names of soldiers who have either been killed or died from sickness or wounds, leaving widows and children, so that the information may bo used for the purposes of providing Christmas cheer for the fatherless children?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The following information has been supplied by the Base Records Office : -
The records of this office do not include any reference to the soldier’s family, showing only “ married or single.” Such details can only be obtained from District Paymasters’ Registers of Separation Allowance - the thing is not impossible, but will necessitate reference to districts if the list is to be compiled here.
The Minister states that if any organization wishes to take up this work, facilities to inspect the records will be given in each State.
page 7289
QUESTION
HENDERSON NAVAL BASE
Mr BURCHELL: FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
On what date did the various unions representing the men working at the Henderson Naval Base enter into negotiations for a working agreement covering wages and conditions generally? Have all or any of these agreements been finalized? If so, will the Minister submit returns giving particulars?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The answer to the honorable member’s question is as follows: -
Coastal Dock Rivers and Harbor Works Union - 22nd March, 1915.
Federated Engine-Drivers and Firemen’s Association of Australasia, Perth. 28th May, 1915.
These agreements have not yet been completed.
The Minister proposes to visit Henderson Naval Base shortly and go into these matters.
page 7290
QUESTION
SUPPLIES PROM ABROAD
Wages and Conditions
Mr FENTON:
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
After failing to obtain supplies and goods in Australia, do the Government, before placing orders with firms outside Australia, make inquiries as to the wages paid and conditions prevailing in those countries?
If the Government do make such inquiries, is it the policy to place orders in countries where wages and conditions are best?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
No.
In the case of supplies for the Defence Department which it is necessary to order outside the Commonwealth, preference is given to goods of British manufacture. The Department is not aware of any orders having been placed outside Australia except in the United Kingdom and America.
page 7290
QUESTION
EXPORT OF MOLYBDENITE
Mr GREGORY: DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
Will he agree to the appointment of a Committee or some responsible person to inquire and take evidence on oath -
On the alleged “ hold up “ of the export of molybdenite?
With reference to the great disparity in the price paid here and the price paid in London?
As to whether the regulations should not be amended so as to permit of lower-grade metals being exported?
Mr HUGHES: ALP
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
The circumstances do not call for any inquiry. There is no “ hold-up “ of molybdenite.
There is no great disparity between the price paid here and that in London.
The regulations already permit of lowergrade metals being exported.
page 7290
QUESTION
ALIEN CONTRACTORS
Mr FLEMING: ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
Is it a fact that some of the surgical requirements, bandages, &c, for the Expeditionary
Forces have been obtained, or are being obtained, from a man named Arnold?
Is the Minister for Defence aware that Arnold is a German?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
G. Arnold had a contract for the supply of first field dressings for the Expeditionary Forces. No contracts were entered into with him for the supply of surgical instruments.
As soon as it was ascertained that Arnold had German sympathies his name was struck off the list of firms with whom the Department is willing to enter into contracts.
page 7290
QUESTION
GENERAL WILLIAMS
Mr FOWLER: PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
Is General Williams still in charge of the medical staff of the Expeditionary Forces; if so, where is he and what is he doing?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– This officer left Australia with the 1st Australian Division as Director of Medical Services. At present he is in England, and, under the direction of the High Commissioner, is performing necessary duties in connexion with invalided Australians and preparation of Australian hospital ships ; under the orders of the War Office he is associated with the Deputy Director of Medical Services, Southampton, in connexion with the arrangements for the return of invalids to Australia.
page 7290
QUESTION
SICKNESS AT THE FRONT
Mr FLEMING:
asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -
Has his attention been directed to the statement reported to have been made by Mr. Asquith that over 87,000 sick soldiers have been received from the Dardanelles?
Is he aware that there is a grave suspicion in the minds of many that inoculation for typhoid, &c, has much to do with so large a number being incapacitated.
Is he aware that there is also a growing suspicion that the outbreak of meningitis may arise to some extent from the same cause?
Will he have a thorough inquiry made into the matter?
Mr HIGGS: for Mr. Jensen · ALP
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
Yes.
No definite figures are to hand, but it is known that mild cases of typhoid and paratyphoid are occurring. It is considered that without inoculation against typhoid a grave situation would have arisen, as the effect of the inoculation is to reduce the number and severity of cases of the disease. 3 and 4. Full inquiries have been made, and ithas been found that there is no relation whatever between the inoculation and vaccination of recruits and the occurrence of cerebrospinal meningitis. The majority of cases of cerebro-spinal meningitis have occurred prior to inoculation and vaccination.
page 7291
QUESTION
AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENT INDUSTRY
Mr GREGORY:
asked the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -
Will the Government consider the advisability of admitting agricultural implements and machinery for this season’s harvest into the Commonwealth free of duty, owing to the present strike?
Mr TUDOR: ALP
– I am not aware of any strike in the agricultural implement making trade.
page 7291
INCOME TAX ASSESSMENT BILL
(No. 2).
Motion (by Mr. Hughes) agreed to -
That leave be given to bring in a Bill for an Act to amend the Income Tax Assessment Act 1915.
Bill presented by Mr. Hughes and read a first time.
page 7291
KATHERINE RIVER-BITTER SPRINGS RAILWAY
Debate resumed from 4th November (vide page 7265), on motion by Mr. King O’Malley-
That, in. accordance with the provisions of the Commonwealth Public Works Committee Act 3913-1914, the following work be referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works for their report, viz.: - Extension of the Pine Creek-Katherine River Railway southwards so far as Bitter Springs.
Mr POYNTON: Grey
.- When I was addressing myself to this proposal last night the honorable member for Swan asked me what was the agreement made with the Commonwealth. I have now before me a copy of the Northern Territory Acceptance Act to which, as a schedule, the agreement is attached.
Sir John Forrest:
– I thought you said that the agreement was to build from Oodnadatta to the Macdonnell Ranges first.
Mr POYNTON:
– I shall read what is in the agreement.
Sir John Forrest:
– I know what is in the agreement, but I thought you said differently.
Mr Thomas:
– If the Commonwealth does not carry out the agreement would the honorable member for Grey be satisfied by South Australia taking back the Northern Territory?
Mr POYNTON:
– All I am contending is that the. agreement made should be carried out by the Commonwealth Parliament. Section 14 of the Act provides in paragraph b that the Commonwealth shall “ construct or cause to be constructed a railway from Port Darwin, southwards to a point on the northern boundary of South Australia proper,” and it is set forth that that railway, with a railway from a point on the Port Augusta railway to connect therewith, is referred to in the Act as the “ Transcontinental railway.” Then paragraph d of the same section provides that the Commonwealth shall “ construct or cause to be constructed “ as part of the Transcontinental Railway, a line from a point on the Port Augusta railway to connect with the other part of the Transcontinental Railway at a point on the northern boundary of South Australia proper. Honorable members will admit that this has not been done. In the agreement, which, as I have said, forms the schedule of the Bill, the same words are used exactly: and my complaint is that the agreement has not been carried out.
Sir John Forrest:
– I understand your point to be that the railway ought to go from the south to the north, whereas the agreement says that it shall go from the north southwards.
Mr POYNTON:
– The agreement does not say anything of the kind, but that the railway shall go from both north and south.
Mr Mahon:
– Does the agreement mention any particular time?
Mr POYNTON:
– That is the question of a man who is in one’s debt, and who has been treated kindly. It was understood by every man in the House that the railway would be constructed within a reasonable time, but it would appear as though the Minister were trying to evade this agreement. On the other hand, we all remember that the Government were given no peace until the other Transcontinental railway to Western Australia was taken in hand. It seems to me that the chief opposition to this proposal is coming from Western Australia, although, in the case of the railway to that State, there was only the promise of one or two prominent men that, in the event of Federation, the States would be thus linked up, while, in the case of the line now immediately under consideration, the promise is one made binding by Act of Parliament.
Mr Pigott:
– South Australia has had its share.
Mr POYNTON:
– Iam not complaining, but merely pointing out that in the present case the promise is even more binding than that of the line to Western Australia.
Mr Pigott:
– There is also a Murray Waters Agreement.
Mr POYNTON:
– I presume that that Agreement was not entered into by the Commonwealth for charitable purposes.
Mr SPEAKER:
– I must ask honorable members not to converse across the chamber.
Mr POYNTON:
– I should like to say very briefly why I advocate the construction of this line from the south as well as from the north. The Commonwealth already owns something like 376 miles of railway due north from Port Augusta, and by the end of this year we shall have taken over the running rights now being exercised by the State of South Australia. It might have been thought only reasonable that we should proceed with the work of construction so as to be able to feed our own railway. I am surprised at the lack of sympathy on the part of the Minister for External Affairs, and I remind him that his attitude was quite different when the railway line to Western Australia was under consideration. If the extension be from the south to the north, it will add very considerably to the running powers that belong to the Commonwealth. A little while ago there was a suggestion that we ought to feed the Queensland lines, but, in my opinion, we ought to consider our own railways first. I challenge contradiction to the statement that if the line be constructed from the north to the south it will cost at least one-third per mile more than if it were constructed in the opposite direction.
Mr Kelly:
– Why should the cost be one-third more per mile ?
Mr POYNTON:
– Every time a man is sent to the Northern Territory his fare has to be paid.
Mr Mahon:
– The fares of the navvies are not paid.
Mr POYNTON:
– No one knows better than the Minister that many fares are paid by the Commonwealth.
Mr Mahon:
– Only of permanent officers.
Mr POYNTON:
– Everything is being dragged to the other end. It is proposed to open up the Barclay Tableland, but there will be no outlet for the produce, whereas if a railway line were built as I suggest, from the southward, it would become a very important factor in the supply of beef and mutton for the people in the south.
Mr Yates:
– Every drover who comes down says that.
Mr Mahon:
– They will tell the honorable member anything.
Mr POYNTON:
– The Minister claims to know all about this matter. Apparently, he is unduly bitter towards this project, and towards the agreement with South Australia, but no one would have ranted louder than he had the agreement specified a line running towards Western Australia and steps were taken to stop the construction of it. A railway running north from Oodnadatta will serve some of the finest country in Australia. This cannot be said of the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway.
Sir John Forrest:
– Where is that fine country ?
Mr POYNTON:
– There are 80,000,000 acres of the finest country in the world stretching from the Macdonnell Ranges to the Barclay Tableland.
Sir John Forrest:
– When some people were offered 90,000 acres of it to the mile of railway if they would build that line they would not accept the offer. The Commonwealth is going to build the railway for which the honorable member is asking, and he will gain nothing by labouring the matter.
Mr POYNTON:
– We know what the right honorable gentleman proposed to do, because, unfortunately for him, we became possessed of the circulars which he sent to the Premier of Queensland. In those circulars there was no talk of building this line. In fact the right honorable gentleman admitted in that correspondence that, unless the people of Queensland agreed with him, he would be forced to carry out the agreement with South Australia. He would be “ forced to carry it out”!
– I did have confidence in the right honorable gentleman until I read that correspondence. I thought that it was a very funny way of helping South Australia.
Sir John Forrest:
– It pledged our Government to the construction of the line running north and south.
Mr POYNTON:
– From a stockraising point of view, the Macdonnell Ranges country has great potentialities. Millions of sheep can be raised there, and it is the finest cattle country in Australia.
Mr LAIRD SMITH: DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917
– Is there any permanent water there?
Mr POYNTON:
– There will not be a twentieth of the difficulty that has been encountered in securing water on the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway. The report of Mr. Graham Stewart, who carried out a survey some years ago, mentions water at very reasonable distances right through the 327 miles of country that he surveyed.
Sir John Forrest:
– The rainfall is not very much.
Mr POYNTON:
– It is on the low side to the south, but the further north one goes, the higher the rainfall becomes, until it reaches 22 inches per annum.
Sir John Forrest:
– That is beyond the Macdonnell Ranges.
Mr POYNTON:
– Yes. These ranges run to an altitude of between 4,000 feet and 5,000 feet, and there is a very fine rainfall there. Apart from that, however, one of the pastoral stations which has carried out development work has discovered sub-artesian water all over its area, and I have no doubt that all through that country, not only extending north and south, but also east and west, and even into the northern portion of Western Australia, where there is a strip of land equal to any in the Commonwealth, there would be the same facilities for. obtaining water. The trouble is that there is no outlet for the stock on this Dead Heart of Australia, as it is called. It is just close to the border. Oodnadatta is practically in the centre of it.
Sir John Forrest:
– To what does the honorable member refer by the term Dead Heart of Australia?
Mr POYNTON:
– It was one of the terms applied by the original explorers.
The right honorable gentleman who was one of those explorers should know what is meant by it.
Sir John Forrest:
– The term was applied by Professor Gregory to the Lake Eyre country.
Mr POYNTON:
– If this line had been built to Heavytree Gap, in the Macdonnell Ranges, every head of cattle and sheep in South Australia could have been saved during the recent drought, for there was abundance of food in these ranges, but there was no opportunity of taking the stock to it, owing to the piece of desert country that lies between it and Oodnadatta. It is that piece of country which prevents this fine pastoral area from being settled. I wish that we could only spend on the development of the Northern Territory what we are spending in three months on the war. It would so develop that area that it would be one of the best assets of the Commonwealth’. But even if we merely cross that Dead Heart from Oodnadatta to just across the border, it will do a great deal towards developing that country.
Sir John Forrest:
– The Dead Heart is Lake Eyre.
Mr POYNTON:
– We shall not fall out about its actual locality. There have been no rich mines discovered in this piece of country which would be developed by the railway that I suggest, but on the White Range miners have been working 1-oz. propositions for years. The only means they have of working them are the primitive methods of using the hammer and gad, as dynamite cannot be procured at its weight in gold. The owners of camel teams refuse to carry these explosives. It seems to me to be a most amazing policy for the Commonwealth with a heavy liability on the 400 miles of railway to Oodnadatta to refuse to extend that line another 300 miles, when by doing so the existing line, instead of being a losing concern, would have a prospect of paying. I have no objection to connexions with Queensland or Western Australia, but I maintain that the first line to be developed should be the trunk line right through the Territory. The connexions east and west should be made afterwards, but the trunk line should be built first, and built from both ends.
Mr McWILLIAMS: FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · REV TAR; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; CP from 1920; IND from 1928
– It is in the agreement that the trunk line shall be built.
Mr Riley:
– The right honorable member for Swan does not oppose that.
Mr POYNTON:
– I do not know that he does not.
Sir John Forrest:
– I promised to help its construction, but because the Queensland route was so much shorter I was anxious to get that built first.
Mr POYNTON:
– Already we have complaints that there is a possibility of the men now at work on the 60-miles line from Pine Creek to Katherine River being idle, owing to the fact that there is no report from the Public Works Committee upon the southern extension of the line, and as all these works have to be submitted to the Public Works Committee, in my opinion, it would be advantageous to take immediate action to have that Committee set about inquiries into the extension from Oodnadatta northwards.
Mr Sinclair:
– Why not submit the whole scheme to the Public Works Committee, so that we may know what we are doing ?
Mr Mcwilliams:
– Hear, hear !
Mr POYNTON:
– The honorable member for Franklin opposed the taking over of the Northern Territory, but I know that, now that the agreement has been entered into, he will be the first to see that it is carried out.
Mr Mcwilliams:
– Hear, hear!
Mr POYNTON:
– It seems to me to be a reasonable suggestion to say that while an inquiry is in progress, in regard to the extension from the Katherine River, we might as well be getting ready for the work that has to be done at the other end.
Sir John Forrest:
– Can that be provided for on the motion before the House ?
Mr POYNTON:
– My amendment is simply to add to the motion the following words: - “and from Oodnadatta to Alice Springs, in a northerly direction.”
Sir John Forrest:
– That work will cost more. The honorable member cannot exceed the sum stated in the message.
Mr POYNTON:
– I am not asking for the construction of the line. If my amendment had reference to the construction of the line the right honorable gentleman’s contention would be justified; but I do not think any point of order could be sustained even if the honorable gentleman raised it.
Sir John Forrest:
– I do not intend to.
Mr POYNTON:
– I am astounded that there should be any opposition to the simple proposition that, whilst the Public
Works Committee is reporting on one scheme, it should also report upon the other.
Sir John Forrest:
– I have no objection.
Mr POYNTON:
– A proposal to construct 60 miles of railway is now before the House; the plant and the men are there, though they may be out of work if this 60 miles’ length is not commenced. The same situation will arise when they have finished that line, unless my amendment is adopted, for, whilst plant and men will be ready for the work, there will be no data for them to go upon.
Sir John Forrest:
– I will support the honorable member’s amendment.
Mr POYNTON:
– I only propose to obtain the necessary data; but after the kindly encouragement just given me by the right honorable member I will leave the whole matter to the good sense of the House. I formally move as an amendment -
That the following words be added to the motion : - “ and from Oodnadatta to Alice Springs, in a northerly direction.”
Mr YATES: Adelaide
.- I second the amendment. I am not going to attempt to traverse the ground covered by the honorable member for Grey. Indeed, I cannot, because I do not know the country as he does, but I am quite satisfied, after the discussions that have taken place, and after information from those who best know this country, that it is well worth development, in tie manner to which this Parliament is pledged. I do not speak on this subject from a parochial point of view, or merely as a representative of South Australia. It has been established that the construction of this railway will greatly assist national development, and if the amendment is agreed to, it will prove that the House, even at some distant date, is prepared to honour the original agreement. The point made by the honorable member for Grey that- the Minister has neglected his duty in not preparing for this work prior to the other work being completed is a strong one. The same point arises in regard to the east-west railway. In the course of twelve or eighteen months we shall have thousands of practical railway builders and a railway building plant idle, unless steps are taken to properly utilize them. The argument that the proper way
*Katherine River-Bitter* [5 November, 1915.] *Springs Railway.* 7295 to construct this particular railway is from south to north is irrefutable. By adopting that plan it will not be necessary to send all the constructional material half way round Australia in order to get it to where it is required. I hope, therefore, the amendment will be carried, and that something more will be done after the Public Works Committee have brought in their report. The Leader of the Opposition said the honorable member for Grey could not quote the honorable member for Swan's circular correctly. I am going to quote it, because it shows that, unless we are alive to what is occurring we shall be side-tracked in the proposal to make the railway from Oodnadatta northward, and that the line will be taken into Queensland. The right honorable gentleman's circular states--
{: .speaker-KXG}
##### Mr Watt:
-- When was it issued?
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- It is dated 30th June, 1914, and was written by the then Treasurer to the Premier of Queensland.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- No; to the Prime Minister.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- The letter is signed by the honorable member for Swan. The Prime Minister certainly indorsed it.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- Mine was an enclosure.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- This letter, written to the Premier of Queensland by the honorable member for Swan, states -
>Looking at the matter from whatever point of view I can,. I cannot conceive of anything but great advantage to Queensland from this connexion (and advantage to the whole Commonwealth as well), because we would have communication in a very short time from Fremantle on the west, to Port Darwin *via* Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Rockhampton, Camooweal, and Newcastle Waters. The expenditure necessary to be incurred by Queensland to connect her western border is very small compared with the expenditure that is proposed by the Commonwealth Government; and, as I have already said, I am not only disappointed, but, I may add, surprised that such an advantageous offer should not have been at once accepted. I can only advise you to again submit the matter, and ask for further consideration. The offer of the Federal Government is one-sided, but still the interests of Australia (which are our main consideration) have to be given prominence, and if the Northern Territory is to be opened up by railways in a few years, we must build from the Katherine southward to Newcastle Waters, and from Camooweal westward to Newcastle Waters. The western portion, however, is impossible unless we have communication with Queensland, and if that is denied to us we must turn ourattention to connecting the Northern Territory from Oodnadatta, a policy to which we are already pledged.
I am glad the honorable member for Swan is going to vote for this amendment, but I do not want it to be said that we cannot conceive what was in the honorable gentleman's mind when he wrote that letter. It was his intention then to connect the Northern Territory by the routes he mentions, and had he done so the other connexion, which means so much to South Australia, would probably have been further delayed. Every drover in charge of cattle from the Northern Territory tells the same story - that, if the railway were constructed as far as the cattle land of the Northern Territory, the transport of cattle to Adelaide, and the development of the Northern Territory itself would be advanced enormously.
{: .speaker-KXG}
##### Mr Watt:
-- Does the honorable member suggest that the alternative route proposed by the honorable member for Swan would have definitely delayed the original line?
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- I do suggest that, and I think the letter I have just read justifies the suggestion. The construction of this railway into the Northern Territory has been the subject of an inquiry by a Royal Commission. That Commission was in favour of the straight line into the Northern Territory.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr Kelly:
-- What Commission is the honorable member referring to ?
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- The Northern Territory Railways and Ports Commission, appointed in 1913, by this House.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- They had not time to visit the country.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr YATES:
-- They had time to visit the most essential parts of the country. The main report of the Commission is signed by Frank Clark, Chairman, and David Lindsay, Commissioner, and there is a minority report signed by A. Combes, Commissioner. On the subject of railway connexion the majority report stated : -
>Thirty witnesses advocated this route - the north, south, central, that is - and of these twenty also favoured a branch to Camooweal. The arguments in favour of this as the route of the main trunk line may be summarized briefly as under. The length of line required to connect the present dead ends at Pine Creek and Oodnadatta is about 1,070 miles, as near as possible through the centre of the Territory, enabling branch lines to be thrown out east and west. It is the most direct line between the natural deep-sea harbors of Port Darwin on the north coast, 7296 *Katherine River-Bitter* [REPRESENTATIVES . ] *Springs Railway.* and Port Augusta on the south coast. The terminal ports, as also the entire length of line, being under the sole control of the Commonwealth, construction may be carried out when considered desirable without reference to any State authority. As construction could proceed from both ends, it could be constructed in the shortest time - a consideration of great importance alike from the stand-point of defence and development.
Nine witnesses were in favour of the construction of the railway by the Pellew Islands, on the route to the Victoria River country, but every one of the witnesses who knew anything about the country declared that the north-south line would be the most advantageous. The honorable member for Grey has used sufficient argument on this point to convince the honorable member for Swan that it is up to this Government to do something in the direction of honouring their promise, and I hope that the House will carry the amendment.
*Sitting suspended from 12.15 to 2.15 p.m.*
{: #subdebate-26-0-s2 .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY: Wentworth
.- The honorable member for Grey, in moving his amendment, no doubt realized, from a South Australian point of view, the necessity, not only of going widely beyond the proposed reference to the Works Committee, but of opening an entirely new phase of this question. I do not think I am misstating his attitude when I put it as high as that. He recognises, as we all do, that to go suddenly from the Northern Territory down to South Australia is a fairly wide leap, and that his proposal is practically one to refer to the Public Works Committee an entirely new work.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- For which the permanent survey is approved, if not commenced.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- But it is an entirely new work, and, therefore, it is quite impossible to proceed with it under this reference.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- No, it is a part of the one scheme.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- That means that it is proposed to link up the two, so that instead of this being a reference of the proposal to construct a railway from Oodnadatta to Alice Springs, it is to be a reference of the proposed line from Oodnadatta to Bitter Springs, estimated to cost, not £326,000, but £3,500,000.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- That is assuming that the line is built right through.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- Quite so.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- Do not assume anything of the kind.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- That being so, the motion and the amendment must refer to two definite and distinct works.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- The honorable member is putting up a man of straw merely to knock him down again.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- No. I have listened, with a great deal of care and sympathy, to my honorable friend, and 1 wish to point out the difficulty in which the Act places him. Let us consider for a moment what he would have to do as a condition precedent to properly submitting his amendment. In the first place, it is provided under subsection 2 of section 15 of the Act that every such proposed work shall, in the first place, be submitted and explained in the House of Representatives " by a Minister of State, in this section referred to as the Minister." The honorable member for Grey is not a Minister of State, but only ought to be.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- Read on.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- I will take my honorable friend a stage further, and point out that in the very next subsection it is required that " the explanation shall comprise an estimate of the cost of the work as completed." No one has made the slightest suggestion as to what the cost of this further proposal is going to be, nor has any one prepared " such plans and specifications or other descriptions as the Minister has deemed proper " in regard to this proposed further reference. L venture to say that the Minister does not deem the proposal of the honorable member for Grey to be a proper one. Those who favour the amendment will see that under the very terms of the Act it cannot properly be moved. Having given my reading of the law on the subject, I am now going to refer to the prophets. The Minister has told us that, unless a report on the proposed reference can be speedily obtained from the Public Works Committee, the occupation and means of livelihood of some 600 men in the Northern Territory are going to be imperilled. Obviously it will take much longer to obtain a report as to the construction of this line from both ends than it would to secure a report on the one section.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- There is nothing to prevent the Committee reporting first of all on the one section. Each section is separate.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- Then there ought to be two separate references to the Public Works Committee. I gather that the Committee will attempt to visit this locality. If, under this one reference, it is going to inquire first of all in the Northern Territory regarding the construction of the line south from Katherine River, and then travel round to South Australia, and up to Oodnadatta-
{: .speaker-JTI}
##### Mr Burns:
-- Or come over on the camels.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- Or come over on the camels and be lost like the sheep, then these 600 men will be waiting hungrily for their wages for a long time before the report comes to hand.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- There is nothing to prevent the Committee reporting on the one section before' it inquires into the other.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- I presume it would be quite sufficient if the South Australian members of the Public Works Committee were to be delegated to report on the section covered by the honorable member's amendment.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- I have made no such suggestion.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- The only representative of South Australia on the Public Works Committee is **Senator Story,** and there is only one story from South Australia concerning this matter. This is not the right time to make the reference proposed in the amendment.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- Is there not to be a reference at some time or other ? Then why not now ?
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- Because the reference proposed by the Minister is urgent, and should be made at once. I appeal to honorable members not to mix it up with another entirely independent consideration. I have a great deal of sympathy with the object which the honorable member desires to attain, but in attempting to attain it in this way he is only going to hold up the reference of the Northern Territory section of the work to the Public Works Committee, and so imperil the occupation of 600 workmen.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- That is not correct.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- I appeal to the Minister.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- -He had no information on the subject last night.
{: .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY:
-- The Minister put a plan before us, and gave us an estimated cost of £320,000, whereas no one has been able yet to tell us within £1,000,000* what this other line will cost. I therefore urge upon my honorable friend, although sympathizing with him, to drop this amendment, and to allow this reference to go without further delay to the Public Works Committee.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s3 .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS: Barrier
.- It is unfortunate from the point of view of the development of the Northern Territory that any proposed work there, the cost of which will exceed £20,000, must, first of all, be referred to the Public Works Committee. When the Public Works Committee Bill was introduced in this House by the present Leader of the Opposition, who was then Minister of Home Affairs, I inquired whether it would apply to Northern Territory works, and his answer was that he was not quite certain, but thought that it would. I then pointed out that it would be unfortunate if it did, since it would mean unnecessary delay. It seems to me that works either in the Northern Territory or in other parts of Australia will have to be delayed unless we are going to create another Works Committee. The task of inquiring into all these big works in the Northern Territory, as well as in all other parts of Australia, is too great for any one Committee. I take it that the Minister has satisfied himself that it is necessary under the Act that this reference should be made. If the Act has been badly drawn, then the fault rests with the Parliament in passing it. I am prepared to support the Government proposal, and shall be very glad if the Public Works Committee can speedily furnish a report, not only for the sake of the Territory itself, but in order that the 600 men on the spot may have added employment. The amendment raises a very serious question, and we should have a definite pronouncement as to the attitude of the Government towards it. The lowest possible estimate of the work covered by the amendment would be £1,500,000. Thus we find a private member moving to refer to the Public Works Committee a work which will involve an enormous expenditure. Where does the Executive of this country come in? If the Act is so framed that any private member of Parliament may, with the assistance of a majority of this House, send to the Public Works Committee any work that he proposes to suggest, then it seems to me that the Government occupies a very strange position. Any honorable member, with the support of a few on this side and the assistance of the Opposition, could send on any work to the Committee. As it is, I take it that the Government have inquired into this project, and have come down with a definite proposal to refer to the Committee the construction of the line from Katherine River to Bitter Springs, the estimated cost of which is £320,000. It is to be assumed that they feel they are in a position to incur that expenditure if the undertaking be approved by the Public Works Committee. I take it that the Treasurer, Having gone thoroughly into the matter, is convinced that the Government cannot afford to spend more than £320,000 on the proposed railway; but the honorable member for Grey asks us to refer to the Public Works Committee for inquiry a proposal for the expenditure of £1,500,000 on another work altogether.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- I ask merely for an inquiry.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- A proposed work should not be referred to the Committee except on the understanding that, should the Committee report in favour of it, the Government will be able and willing to carry it out. Under any other circumstances, the Committee's inquiry would mean waste of time and loss of money. Do not the honorable members for Wakefield and Dampier, who have been Ministers of the Crown, agree with me in that contention ?
{: .speaker-KFE}
##### Mr Gregory:
-- I think that the honorable member is wrong.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- It would be competent for an honorable member to move to refer an alternative route to the Committee.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- The reference of an alternative route would be quite proper. The Government have £320,000 to spend on a railway from Katherine River to Bitter Springs, and its officers recommend that a particular route be followed. If the Public Works Committee can show that the money could be spent to greater advantage by following another route, and reported to that effect, it would be for Parliament to choose between the two recommendations. «
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- I ask the honorable member to apply that reasoning to the proposal of the honorable member for Grey.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- What the honorable member for Grey proposes is something quite different from the reference of an alternative route. His proposal, if adopted, might mean the expending of £1,500,000, although, apparently, the Government is not prepared to spend more than £320,000. It is the duty of a Treasurer, in making a financial statement, to tell Parliament for what works his Government can provide money. If an honorable member can move to increase a proposed expenditure from £320,000 to £1,500,000, he could move to increase it to £20,000,000. But we have the right to know whether, if the Committee should recommend the work referred to it, the Government would be prepared to find the money necessary to carry it out. The House should know that, the Committee having investigated a proposal with the ability and thoroughness with which its work is done, and reported in favour of it, the money for it would be forthcoming. Is the Government prepared to find £1,500,000 for the work which the honorable member for Grey desires to have carried out, should the Committee recommend it?
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- Say £1,000,000. The country is very easy.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- The amount makes little difference to my argument; I am discussing a question of principle. For my purposes, the probable cost of the work that the honorable member for Grey proposes could be set down at £750,000. I was in the New South Wales Parliament for a number of years, and have been a member of this Parliament since its inception, and have studied a little the doings of other Parliaments; but I have never known an honorable member to move for the reference of a large work to a Public Works Committee without the consent of the Ministry.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr Yates:
-- If the Minister accepts the amendment, will the honorable member support it?
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- I shall have no objection to doing that; but I wish to know first what the position of the Minister is in regard to it. Should the Ministry accept the amendment, a precedent would be created, and in future it would be com- petent for any honorable member to do what the honorable member for Grey is trying to do. Thus the Opposition, with the help of one or two Government supporters, would be able to get any work referred to the Public Works Committee.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr Yates:
-- Parliament is pledged to the construction of this railway.
{: .speaker-KYA}
##### Mr Pigott:
-- Not at this juncture.
{: .speaker-L1T}
##### Mr Yates:
-- We do not ask that the railway be made now, but we desire an inquiry into the advisability of making it.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr THOMAS:
-- I am not now discussing whether the line which the honorable member for Grey favours should or should not be made. My contention, as a supporter of the Government, is that we should know its position in the matter. If the Minister simply says, " We have no particular policy on this question. Having gone into the matter, we feel that all that we can afford to spend is £320,000, but if the House wants something more done, we are indifferent," we shall at least know the position. Before a precedent of great moment is created, we should be informed definitely of the atitude of the Government towards the amendment.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s4 .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr RICHARD FOSTER: Wakefield
-- The amendment, which I intend to support, is not inconsistent with the Public Works Committee Act.
{: .speaker-K8L}
##### Mr Thomas:
-- I have not said that it is inconsistent with the Act, but I should like the honorable member to say whether it is not inconsistent with the theory of responsible government.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
-- I intend to point out that it is not inconsistent with the theory of responsible government. The Public Works Committee is created, not only to assist responsible Ministers, but also to form a medium through which information may come to Parliament and to individual members. It is the function of supplying information that, in my opinion, gives the Committee its greatest value. The Commonwealth has acquired a line of railway of which only portions, one at the north end and the other at the south, have been constructed. Before the Public Works Committee was formed, Parliament determined to extend southwards, for about 60 miles, the northern portion of the line, and the Minister now asks us to refer to the Committee a proposal to again extend it southwards for another 60 miles or so. The honorable member for Grey desires that the Committee shall be asked to report to the House whether it would not be better in the interests of the Commonwealth to extend the southern end of the line northwards, or to make an extension simultaneously at both ends. That proposal is, to my mind, in conformity with the letter and spirit of the Public Works Committee Act, and with the intention of its framers. Whatever the Committee may report, the responsibility for the action subsequently taken' will rest with the Government and the Parliament. It is constantly thrown in the teeth of South Australian representatives that in the matter of this transcontinental line we are actuated only by considerations of State interests. I take such remarks in good part. My reply to them now is that what we ask for is merely an inquiry, so that the facts may be made known to Parliament. When that has been done I shall be prepared to accept the decision of Parliament, letting the matter be dealt with in the proper constitutional way. The completed portion of the line at the southern end has a length of about 400 miles, and stops short at Oodnadatta, where the land is inferior and the rainfall low. Beyond Oodnadatta, some 300 miles of poor country has to be bridged in order to tap the Macdonnell Range country, the value of which is well known to all pastoralists. This country is infinitely superior from a pastoral point of view to any of that between Port Augusta and Oodnadatta. To leave the line as it has stood for the past twenty years, is like leaving a bridge with a gap in midstream. I am convinced that the expenditure of £1,000,000 or £1,250,000 in the manner proposed by the honorable member for ' Grey would produce an infinitely better return than will be obtained from the proposal of the Government. It has been said that on the Oodnadatta line there is only one train a fortnight, which is true so far as the passenger traffic is concerned ; but for weeks past there have been from ten to thirteen special stock trains fully loaded with cattle every week. Unfortunately in dry seasons it is impossible to get stock from the Macdonnell Ranges across the 300 miles of poor country that intervenes between them and Oodnadatta, but during the present year the existing line has been of great service in conveying supplies of fat stock, not merely to the market of Adelaide, but also to that of Melbourne.
{: .speaker-L77}
##### Mr Hampson:
-- Does the traffic pay for the axle grease used on the locomotives t
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
-- If the line is extended to the good country northwards of the present terminus it will not only continue to pay working expenses, but to return a substantial proportion of the interest on capital cost. We desire also that the Minister shall give instructions to the Public Works Committee to lay all the facts regarding the southern extension before the House at the earliest opportunity. Experts will tell us that the most economic way of developing country such as that between Oodnadatta and Darwin is to work from the south to the north, because, in the south, all the conditions are favorable for the cheap construction of the line, whereas at the northern end the climatic and other conditions make such work costly indeed. So far as the future returns of that line are concerned, I predict that for every one truckload of produce that will be carried over the Kalgoorlie-Port Augusta railway there will be ten trucks carried over the Pine Creek-Oodnadatta line. That is knowledge which I have gained as a result of thirty-five years' experience, and the facts available in the South Australian Works Department will prove my statement to the hilt.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s5 .speaker-KRN}
##### Mr SINCLAIR:
-- Are we not losing £75,000 a year on the existing line?
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
--Yes, and we shall continue to lose that amount until the line is -extended, so that the good country beyond the present terminus may become a contributor to the railway in good seasons, and an inestimable boon to the people of Australia in bad seasons by placing meat on the market at a time when, without railway communication, that country could not be travelled by stock without serious loss of condition.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s6 .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr KING O'MALLEY: DarwinMinister of Home Affairs · ALP
.- The honorable member for Grey having ventilated his grievance, I hope he will now withdraw the amendment.
{: .speaker-KFP}
##### Mr Richard Foster:
-- Will you promise to deal with the Oodnadatta line?
{: .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr KING O'MALLEY:
-- As an exMinister, the honorable member must know that the Government comprise W. M. Hughes and Company. There is a corporation of ten Ministers, and he, as president, speaks for the corporation. Therefore, I ask the honorable member for Grey to postpone his proposal until the Government have, had a chance of considering the matter.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- Have some backbone and do it yourself.
{: .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr KING O'MALLEY:
-- Nobody was ever more particular to always show that he was boss than was the right honorable gentleman when he was Premier of Western Australia. I have no wish to attempt to usurp the prerogatives of the Prime Minister. I admit that our South Australian friends are deeply interested in the Oodnadatta railway, but if they persist in forcing this amendment to an issue now we might lose the other little" project, with which we can proceed at once.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- The Oodnadatta project does not affect the Bitter Springs line at all.
{: .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr KING O'MALLEY:
-- I think it does. The money question must also be considered. How are we to investigate at this stage an issue that will involve an expenditure of at least £3,000,000? The experience in connexion with the KalgoorliePort Augusta railway has shown that the estimates of engineers and technical men are not always correct. I ask the honorable member for Grey to withdraw his amendment so that the Government may proceed at once with the short line to. Bitter Springs. Then when the House re-assembles, if honorable members from South Australia still feel particularly interested in the matter, they may bring it forward again and have it dealt with by the House.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s7 .speaker-KJE}
##### Sir WILLIAM IRVINE: Flinders
-- A question arises as to whether, under the terms of the Public Works Committee Act, the amendment can be given effect to. Section 15 of the Act provides -
>No public work of any kind whatsoever . . . the estimated cost of completing which exceeds twenty-five thousand pounds . . . shall be commenced unless sanctioned as in this section provided.
In the first place, the proposed work is to be explained in the House of Representatives by the Minister, and it is provided that -
>The explanation shall comprise an estimate of the cost of the work when completed, together with such plans and specifications or other descriptions as the Minister deems proper, together with the prescribed reports on the
*Katherine River-Bitter* [5 November, 1915.] *Springs Railway.* 7301 probable cost of construction and maintenance, and estimates of the probable revenue (if any) to be derived therefrom, such estimates, plans, specifications, descriptions, and reports to be authenticated or verified in the prescribed manners
Then the section says -
>Upon motion made in the usual manner by the Minister or by any member of the House of Representatives the proposed work shall be referred to the Committee for their report thereon.
The Act was drawn up by the Government of which I was a member, and was drafted on the lines of the Victorian Act, the operation of which is perfectly familiar to me. There is not the slightest doubt that the Act requires that no public work shall be undertaken until certain plans, specifications, estimates, and so forth, are brought before the House. The House must be in possession of estimates for the particular work which is to be submitted to the Committee. The amendment proposes to add to the reference another work entirely apart from that submitted by the Minister. Clearly no explanation is needed to convince honorable members that the provisions of section 15 will not have been complied with if the amendment is carried.
{: .speaker-KYD}
##### Mr Poynton:
-- The addition I propose is part of one complete work to be undertaken in accordance with the Agreement between the Commonwealth and South Australia.
SirWILLIAM IRVINE.- That may be a strong argument on the merits of the proposal, and may be a reason why honorable members should assent to that work; but it is no argument on the question as to whether this amendment can be made. " The proposed work " in the meaning of section 15 is that of which the Minister has submitted plans, specifications, and estimates. Has the Minister given any such particulars in regard to the addition which is the subject of the amendment ?
{: .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr King O'Malley:
-- No.
{: .speaker-KJE}
##### Sir WILLIAM IRVINE:
-- Then I submit, **Mr. Speaker,** that section 15 does not authorize the honorable member for Grey to move such an amendment to the motion brought before the House by the Minister, and if the amendment is carried it will not confer one whit of authority on any person to carry out any inquiry in connexion with it.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s8 .speaker-L1P}
##### Mr WISE: Gippsland
.- I agree with the argument of the honorable member for Flinders, but the question as to the Committee's powers has already been considered by **Mr. Speaker** in connexion with the Committee's report on the extension of the Small Arms Factory at Lithgow. When that report was before the House it was pointed out that one work had been referred to the Committee, which had reported on an entirely different proposition, and the Government were asking the House to agree to the new project. I raised an objection similar to that taken by the honorable member for Flinders, and **Mr. Speaker** held that the point involved a matter of law, which was not for him to decide.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s9 .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR: Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP
-- I am not sure that the honorable member for Gippsland is correct in stating that the original reference to the Committee of the proposed extension of the Small Arms Factory related only to Lithgow. But, apart from that, I doubt whether the amendment of the honorable member for Grey is in order, because it goes beyond the proposal brought before the House by the Minister. The Act requires that plans and specifications of every proposed work shall be brought before the House. I understand that the ex-Minister of Home Affairs was of the opinion that this railway extension could be carried out without reference to the Public Works Committee, and as this is the first railway to be constructed since the Committee has been in existence, posibly the same mistake would have been made by any other Minister. It was only after the matter was brought forward here that the point was raised as to whether the work should not be reported upon by the Public Works Committee, and that is why plans and other particulars were not ready for submission to the House. Those circumstances, however, do not permit of the moving of an amendment which would mean an investigation by the Committee of an entirely different project, which would probably cost three times as much as the proposal submitted by the Minister.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s10 .speaker-10000}
##### Mr SPEAKER:
-- On the question of law, I do not propose to express an opinion; but there is another aspect of this question which has not been raised by. 7302 *Katherine River-Bitter* [REPRESENTATIVES.] ' *Springs Railway.* honorable members. Suppose some honorable member had moved an amendment that the Committee should inquire also into the strategic railway, which was the subject of discussion some months ago, and which might extend for 1,000 or 1,500 miles. Honorable members will realize that such an amendment would introduce a question entirely distinct from that submitted to the House by the Minister. The motion before the House relates to a railway from Katherine River southwards to Bitter Springs. There is a definite proposal before the House, and the honorable member asks by the amendment that inquiry shall also be made into some other proposal. The difficulty I am in is that I do not see that there can be any limitation to amendments of the kind if I accept the amendment now proposed. It would be competent, if this amendment were accepted, for any honorable member to move any further amendment - one, for example, to the effect that the Committee should also inquire into the feasibility, and so forth, of constructing a strategic railway between Port Augusta and Brisbane. Honorable members will see that, if I give way, I shall leave it open for any honorable member to propose that any line he desires shall be inquired into. Under the circumstances I rule that the amendment is not in order.
{: #subdebate-26-0-s11 .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr McWILLIAMS: Franklin
-- The ruling just given alters the whole position; and I suggest that the Government should withdraw this proposal in order that the House may have an opportunity to express an opinion on the very important issue that has been raised. Of course, sir, we accept your ruling, which, however, has the effect of debarring honorable members from expressing an opinion as to where this railway shall be commenced, or whether it shall be commenced from the north and south simultaneously. I think a very great mistake is being made in the manner in which we are dealing with this subject. There can be no question that this is an instalment of the complete line, whatever route may be taken; and I point out to the Government that they are simply continuing the costly failure that has attended the settlement anddevelopment of the Territory for about 100 years. It is just about that length of time since the first settlement at Melville Island ; and at intervals from then until the present time we have had the same disastrous failure as a result of attempting to develop the country from the tropical end. This has cost the Federation between £4,000,000 and £5,000,000, and it represents about the most ghastly failure in the whole history of British settlement. There are two or three points that we ought to consider. This National Parliament must be very careful, indeed, not to enter upon a policy of repudiation; and to my mind that is very much the direction in which we are trending. It will be within the memory of honorable members that the present Treasurer and myself debated the question of taking over the Territory; indeed, we were accused by our opponents of " stone- walling " the proposal for two days and two nights. We certainly kept the discussion going; and our chief objection was that, under the then proposed Agreement, the Commonwealth was distinctly committed to continue the line from Port Darwin to Oodnadatta. There was not a member who did not recognise that that was the distinct Agreement on which we were entering ; and *Hansard* will show that it took two days and two nights to impress this fact on the House. With these facts before them, honorable members deliberately adopted the contract; and I then said what I say now, namely, that having accepted the contract, I, for one, would be no party to any attempt at repudiation. All this makes it quite evident that the question should be very seriously reconsidered. Despite what has been said, it is quite safe to conclude that it will cost at least 33 per cent, more to construct this line from the tropical end at Port Darwin than from the more temperate part of South Australia.
{: .speaker-KEV}
##### Mr Fenton:
-- And it will be of less benefit to Australia by a long way.
{: .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr McWILLIAMS:
-- Undoubtedly. The debate has shown, I think, that there is a large majority in the House in favour of some distinct policy being adopted in regard to this railway, which represents a large and very important work. When the previous section was under consideration, I expressed the opinion that the only proper policy was to adopt a definite route as a whole, and to see that every shilling expended was in the direction of completing that work. Honorable members who hold the same views as myself will have no option but to oppose this proposal, unless the Government are prepared to reconsider the matter; and we do not desire to oppose it. One of the reasons I had for introducing a Bill for the creation of the Public Works Committee was the enormous area under our control. Very costly works are being proposed by Ministers on the advice of their departmental officials, and as to the merits of these works, three-fourths of the members generally are entirely ignorant of them. In the present case we know nothing of the country to be traversed - nothing of the advantages or disadvantages of the rival routes - and it is only by means of a Committee obtaining reliable information on the spot, and focussing that information for .our benefit, that we can be put in a position to arrive at a proper conclusion. I venture to say that there is not one honorable member who would invest a £5- note in a work such as this on the information at our disposal. The Minister of Home Affairs would be the first to admit that he has no personal knowledge whatever of this work, but that he has simply to take the advice of his officers. Honorable members are not in a position to say whether this work, which means the development of the whole of the centre of Australia, is being started from the right or the wrong end, or whether there should be a start from each end simultaneously.
{: .speaker-K5D}
##### Mr King O'malley:
-- In two weeks' time, when I get my digest, I shall be able to tell you.
{: .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr MCWILLIAMS:
-- Even the valuaable aid of the digest would not give the House the direct knowledge it ought to have. We are not playing marbles, but entering upon the construction of a railway of considerably over 1,000 miles in length, and a railway that is going to cost probably over £10,000,000. Honorable members will acknowledge that I have read every work on the subject that I could lay my hands on, and I am confident that the benefits of starting from the southern end would be infinitely greater than those received from a corresponding expenditure at the tropical end. This would mean starting in a temperate country, running, in a comparatively few miles, into what we know to be good and habitable areas. In the neighbourhood of Alice Springs and the Macdonnell Ranges we are assured, from reports, that there is country with considerable possibilities, and we know that the rainfall and climate are good. There are areas of really good pastoral land, and, in addition, mineral resources which only require development. Do then let us be reasonable. The whole of the States are interested, because they have to find the money; and it is our duty to our constituents to see that that money is expended in the proper direction, and in the most profitable way. The amendment, which has been ruled out of order, simply asked us to enable the. Public Works Committee to obtain information which we ought to have, and without which it will be impossible to give anything like a reasonable verdict. We do not know whether, when we are spending this money, the line will be found to effect the proper junction at the southern end. I do not say that the work to the north should not be proceeded with, but I do submit that, before a shilling is spent, we should have the information that the amendment sought to make available. The House ought to have an opportunity to deal with this matter on its merits. But, as it stands now, the forms of the House have prevented a majority from securing what they desire. I am convinced that if the amendment had been dealt with on its merits, it would have been carried by a large majority; and the Government should see that the will of the House prevails. Surely they will not permit a technical objection to prevent a majority giving effect to their desires? In the absence of information, the House is not in a position to deal with the question on its merits. Then, as I said before, the attempts made during the last 100 years to develop the Territory from the north have practically failed, after an expenditure of £4,000,000 or £5,000,000, and overshadowing all is the fact that the honour of the House is involved in the contract. It is impossible for any one to read that contract or the debates on the question without recognising that we deliberately entered into an Agreement with South Australia - an Agreement which I, at the time, thought stupendously foolish. We said £hat if South Australia would hand over the Territory to the Commonwealth, this railway from Port Darwin to Oodnadatta, as shown in the distinct terms of the contract read by the honorable member for Grey-
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- It did not say a word about Oodnadatta. 7304 *Katherine River-Bitter* [REPRESENTATIVES.] *Springs Railway.*
{: .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr McWILLIAMS:
-- Clause 1, paragraphb, of the contract, reads -
>Construct or cause to be constructed a railway line from Port Darwin southwards to a point on the northern boundary of South Australia proper.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- It makes no mention of Oodnadatta.
{: .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr McWILLIAMS:
-- Paragraph *d* of the same clause reads -
>Construct or cause to be constructed as part of the transcontinental railway a railway from a point on the Port Augusta railway, to connect . with the other part of the transcontinental railway at a point on the northern boundary of South Australia proper.
{: .speaker-KFJ}
##### Sir John Forrest:
-- It might have been Hergott Springs. It was thought so at the time.
{: .speaker-JUV}
##### Mr McWILLIAMS:
-- It was not. We entered into a contract to construct from north to south and from south to north, and now we are giving effect to one part of the contract and deliberately ignoring, if not repudiating, the other. I appeal to the Minister to retire his motion and bring it forward in such a form as to enable the House to have full and free discussion on the whole question of this route upon its merits, which, by the forms of the House, cannot be allowed to-day. It is too big and too costly a subject to be hampered by the forms of the House. We are pledged to South Australia to carry out the work, but we are not fulfilling our contract. It is a good thing, sometimes, that States which have no direct interest in rival routes of a railway should have a voice upon them, because they can decide the issue entirely on the merits of the respective cases presented. I hope that the Minister will see that the House has the opportunity of expressing a view on the whole subject; and, above all things, I hope that this National Parliament will not proceed with the work of developing the Northern Territory by a deliberate act of repudiation to one of the parties to the contract.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
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page 7304
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### KATHERINE RIVER TO BITTER SPRINGS RAILWAY BILL
Motion (by **Mr. Kingo** 'Malley) agreed to -
>That leave be given to bring in a Bill for an Act to provide for the construction of a railway in the Northern Territory from the Katherine River to Bitter Springs, the appointment ofofficers, and the making of charges in connexion with such railway, and to amend section 2 of the Pine Creek to Katherine River Railway Act 1913.
Bill presented by **Mr. King** O'Malley, and read a first time.
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page 7304
{:#debate-28}
### INCOME TAX ASSESSMENT BILL
(No. 2).
{:#subdebate-28-0}
#### Second Reading
**Mr. TUDOR** (Yarra- Minister of
Trade and Customs) [3.21]. - I move -
That this Bill be now read a second time.
The object of this Bill is to effect a number of technical amendments which the Commissioner of Taxation and his staff have found necessary in order to enable the Income Tax Assessment Act to work more smoothly. It was the intention of the Prime Minister to explain these amendments, but at the present moment he is busily engaged with the representatives of the States in regard to the shipment of wheat. Detailed explanation of clauses of a Bill is not permissible on the second reading, but in order that honorable members may become acquainted with the various amendments proposed, I shall, with the permission of **Mr. Speaker,** take them in order. Fuller explanation may be given at the Committee stage. Clause 2 provides an amendment to section 14, and is designed to overcome a decision of the Supreme Court of New South Wales in the case of *In re* Chalmers, 1913, New South Wales L. R. 711, in which the Supreme Court of that State held that the share is the source of a dividend, and that the share is situated where the central control and management of a company exists, so that where a company was managed outside Australia, but carried on business in Australia, the dividend was not taxable, although derived from a company carrying on business within the Commonwealth. For example, the dividends of a company whose head-quarters were outside Australia would not be liable to taxation. On the other hand the Colonial Sugar Refining Company has a considerable amount of business outside Australia; but as their central office is in Australia, the income earned outside Australia would be liable to be taxed. The Government are not anxious to see the Colonial Sugar Refining Company shift their head-quarters from Australia to some place outside, and thus exempt themselves from paying tax on income earned by them inside the
Commonwealth. The amendment will now make taxable so much of dividends from companies which carry on business in Australia as corresponds to the profits made by the companies in Australia.
{: #subdebate-28-0-s0 .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR: ALP
-- I understand that section 14 as it stands makes companies, whose head-quarters are in Australia, liable to pay income tax, even on earnings from outside Australia. This amendment will avoid it. The next amendment is also an amendment to section 14, paragraph 6. It has been claimed by some taxpayers that under the proviso to paragraph *b* the income of a company received before the commencement of the Act, that is, during the financial year ending 30th June, 1915, would not be taxable for the year ending 30th June, 1915. The proviso was intended to' exempt reserve funds accumulated before the year to which the tax was to be applied, and this amendment will carry out the original intention, namely, to exempt reserve funds accumulated before the Act came into operation. Clause 3 amends section 15. At present this section applies only where the agent actually makes the sale; but as there are many cases where the agent collects the orders, but does not complete the contract and make the sale, it is considered desirable that all these agents should be on the same footing. The proposed new section 17a is designed to meet the case of fire insurance companies not carrying on business directly in Australia, who, under treaty arrangements with other companies, undertake reinsurances of Australian risks. As these non-resident companies undoubtedly derive an income from Australia, it is considered that they should pay tax on that income. The proposed amendments *a, b, c, d,* and e to section 18 of the principal Act merely make it clear that the deductions must not be losses or outgoings from capital, and must be sums paid in Australia or in respect of companies carrying on operations in Australia. Amendment /, which proposes to add a new paragraph *k* to that section merely transfers the deduction in respect of children from section 19 to section 17, and also provides that the age of a child is to be ascertained at the beginning of the financial year. The proposed new subsection 2 will make it clear from which class of income the deductions are to be made. On that point I may say that I inquired of the gentleman in charge of the Department whether a taxpayer would be able to claim exemption in respect of a child who attained the age of sixteen in March this year. I was informed - and this amendment will make the position clear - that as the tax is payable upon the income of last year, and as the child was under sixteen years at the start of the year, the exemption will apply to that child. Personally, I think it is a very fair exemption. The amendment to sub-section 6 of section 19 is proposed because it has been found that in the administration of this section the apportionment referred to in the proviso occasions numerous calculations, and hampers administration. To obviate these calculations the new proviso provides for a simpler method of calculating this class of deduction without any substantial loss of tax. Sub-section c in the principal Act is omitted, as it will be included in section 18, and the omission of the word " total " is consequential upon the amendment of the proviso to paragraph' *b.* Under the existing Act, an absentee is only required to furnish a return when requested. By an amendment of section 28 he will be required to furnish returns annually, the same as other taxpayers. That is provided for in clause 7 of the amending Bill.
{: .speaker-KFC}
##### Mr Fleming:
-- People living in the Old Country will be required to furnish regular returns of their income from this country ?
{: .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR:
-- Yes. That point is made clear. It is necessary that such a person should make returns, just as the honorable member himself has to make a return.
{: .speaker-KFC}
##### Mr Fleming:
-- Will the returns have to be made at the same time?
{: .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR:
-- I have no doubt that the Department will be quite willing to meet the varying circumstances of each case, because, after all, these Departments are run not to injure any one, although those in authority must see that the Act is carried out properly. The absentee has no right to be placed in a different position from that occupied by the man on the spot.
{: .speaker-KFC}
##### Mr Fleming:
-- A good deal of discrimination will be necessary in order to prevent hardship.
{: .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR:
-- I have no doubt discrimination will be used. A new subsection is proposed to be added to section 46. If a person dies during the financial year, before furnishing a return for the previous year's income, it is doubtful under the Act at present whether the executors are liable for tax on the income received by the person during the preceding year, and that amount of income would probably escape tax. The proposed new section will make the executors liable for tax on the income received in the preceding financial year by that person.
{: .speaker-KCO}
##### Mr Glynn:
-- Does that mean that if a man died in March last he would have to pay for the full year?
{: .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR:
-- No. The amendment only applies to a person dying before he makes his return for the previous year's income. A separate Bill will be introduced dealing with the rates of tax.
Debate (on motion by **Mr. Glynn)** adjourned.
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page 7306
{:#debate-29}
### ADJOURNMENT
{:#subdebate-29-0}
#### Order of Business - Treatment of Australian Wounded - Newcastle Camp - Yellow Fever - Income Tax Assessment Bill - Return of Sick Soldiers - Supply of Artificial Limbs
{: #subdebate-29-0-s0 .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR: Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP
-- I move -
>That the House do now adjourn.
The business that will occupy the attention of the House next week will include the completion of the measure just dealt with, and the War Loan Bill," together with the matter the Treasurer has in hand. It will also be necessary to introduce a measure for the purpose of withdrawing the writ in connexion with the referenda. That is all the business, so far as I am aware.
{: #subdebate-29-0-s1 .speaker-JXA}
##### Mr CHARLTON: Hunter
.- Some time back several honorable members of the House, including myself, asked the Minister representing the Minister of Defence several questions in regard to the treatment of the Australian wounded in hospital. I do not raise the question now in any critical spirit, but in order that it may be placed properly before the Department, some investigation be made, and something be done to remedy the condition of our wounded soldiers in hospital at the other side of the world. I desire to read a letter that I have received from a soldier unknown to me, from Ras-el-Sin, Alexandria, which shows that there is room for complaint, and that something should be done. This letter is as follows : -
{:#subdebate-29-1}
#### Mr. Charlton, M.H.E., Melbourne
**Sir, -** In reading a parliamentary report of 4th August, I noticed where you asked the Honorable the Minister for the Navy a question *re* wounded soldiers' pay, and, being myself personally concerned, I noticed the reply you got was not in accordance with facts. The wounded - also sick - Australian here, whilst in hospital, receives nothing, and the majority have not got the price of a daily paper. There is a non-commissioned officer comes round once a week, and you can order goods up to the value of 5s. - goods which some of the soldiers say should be Bed Cross comforts. But the above sum is credited against you, to be stopped at your final payment. That is the condition you can order under. If they are not Red Cross comforts, well, in this part of the world, we get none.
Now, sir, I was wounded on the 3rd May. In hospital, on the 14th, I received 50 piastres (10s. 4d.). Discharged from hospital on 14th June, proceeded to Base, and on the 17th of the same month I was given 54 piastres ( 1 ls. Id.), and was told there was a boat leaving for the front on the following Saturday, and if I did not go by that boat I would be immediately arrested. I was prepared to go; but as I had not received any money since the 13th March, I thought it was not a fair go.
I am now in hospital again, this time ill; and while in hospital a private cannot get a draw, whilst an officer can draw his full amount.
That is all I can tell you, as I will be going back to the firing line in a day or so. You do not know me, but you can get a reference from **Senator Lynch** (Western Australia).
I realize that the Defence Department has done much at this end to remedy this state of things, but it appears to me that we shall not make the position satisfactory until some one is appointed outside the military to attend to the wounded soldiers in hospital and to look after their correspondence, and any cables that may be sent to them. Such a step should be taken. A large amount of money has been subscribed by residents of Australia for the purpose of assisting Australian soldiers, and something should be done to see that the soldiers get the benefit of that money. We do not want to have it locked up and to be informed at the end of the war that hun- dreds of thousands of pounds are being stored away somewhere whilst the men are now suffering, as they apparently are. I hope the Minister will make a note of what I have said, and see if something cannot be done to remedy such a state of affairs. I desire also to refer to a matter concerning the Newcastle Camp. The Minister stated to-day that that Camp had been closed in consequence of measles. That is a very strange proceeding, seeing that at the Armidale Camp they have had considerably more measles than at Newcastle-
{: #subdebate-29-1-s0 .speaker-JXA}
##### Mr CHARLTON:
-- No, it is not. I know what I am speaking about. The Camp at Armidale was not quarantined, and the officers had no right to quarantine the Camp at Newcastle as they did. The medical authority who has complete charge of the military in regard to health matters, instead' of isolating the cases that occurred, quarantined the whole Camp. There was no small-pox whatever anywhere near the Camp, and when the matter was ventilated a curious thing occurred. The soldiers complained bitterly about being compelled to remain in Camp unable to see their friends. On the following day the quarantine was removed, and soldiers were allowed to go out and mix with the public; but the authorities would not allow anybody to enter the camp. It has now been decided that the camp shall be closed. I would point out, however, that it is serving a good purpose. It is an elementary camp, all the men from which' have to go on to Liverpool, and those who have passed through it declare it to be 'one of the best in New South Wales. Men enlisting in the district naturally desire to pass through their probationarycourse there, since they thus remain in close touch with their friends, and can be visited by them without difficulty. That is in itself a consideration which tends to help recruiting. The provision of camps close to centres of population induced many local men to enlist, although they would not think of doing so if they had to go into camp at Liverpool, many miles away. I ask the Minister of Trade and Customs to bring these two matters under the notice of his colleague the Minister of Defence.
{: #subdebate-29-1-s1 .speaker-KFK}
##### Mr GROOM: Darling Downs
-- I ask the Minister of Trade and Customs to consider the desirableness of issuing to the local governing bodies of the towns in Queensland and New South Wales which are directly interested in the subject a copy of the book dealing with Australia and the yellow fever, which has been issued by the Quarantine branch of his Department. In this book much valuable information has been collected which should be very helpful in finding a solution of the problem dealt with.
{: #subdebate-29-1-s2 .speaker-KEV}
##### Mr FENTON: Maribyrnong
-- In introducing the Income Tax Assessment Bill this afternoon, the Minister of Trade and Customs read what I took to be the interpretation of the AttorneyGeneral's Department of many of the proposed amendments of the principal Act. I should be glad if the honorable gentleman would cause copies of his speech to be forwarded to honorable members, so that they may be in a better position to deal with the subject when we meet next week. Many of us have received letters from individuals and firms who seem to think that they are rather harshly treated under the Act, and I am inclined to believe that the information furnished by the Minister this afternoon will prove valuable to us in dealing with such communications.
{: #subdebate-29-1-s3 .speaker-KEA}
##### Mr KELLY: Wentworth
.- As the honorable member for Hunter has raised the question of the treatment of returned soldiers, I should like to make two suggestions to the Minister. The first of these is that venereal subjects should not be brought back to Australia. It is neither fair to themselves nor 'to the community that they should be brought back until cured, but arrangements for their comfort should be made, in some better place than Egypt, in the Eastern Mediterranean, until such time as they can be brought back with safety to the community and without damage to themselves. My second suggestion is that the Department might well follow - the example of Germany in dealing with soldiers who have lost limbs. In Germany there has been established an institution, known as the Hindenburg Hospital, where soldiers who have lost limbs are supplied with artificial limbs which are specially suited to the occupations previously followed by them. This, I think is not only a fair thing to do for the men so returned, but is an excellent thing for the country as a whole. One of the troubles after' the war will be the immense number of men so situated for whom we shall have to do something in this direction.
{: #subdebate-29-1-s4 .speaker-KWL}
##### Mr TUDOR: Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP
-- I desire to inform the honorable member for Hunter that I have arranged to be supplied with the *Hansard* report of his remarks, which I shall forward immediately to the Minister of Defence. I shall certainly adopt the suggestion made by the honorable member for Darling Downs regarding the very excellent work, dealing with yellow fever, recently issued by the Department. The technical part of the work, dealing with the *Stegomyia fasciata* was prepared by **Mr. Taylor,** as a result of action taken by the honorable member when he held office. . I do not propose to scatter copies broadcast, but I shall certainly see that the municipal authorities concerned are supplied. I shall also bring under the notice of the Minister of Defence the matters referred to by the honorable member for Wentwortb. A suggestion was made recently that, instead of locating in the one State all returned soldiers suffering from vene-real disease, the men should be distributed according to the States from which they originally came. Some five or six months ago the Director of Quarantine. **Dr. Cumpston,** drew my attention to a very excellent article in an American newspaper dealing with the supply of artificial limbs to German soldiers, and I forwarded it to the Defence Department in' order that it might consider the desirableness of making similar provision here. We should try to make as happy as possible the lot of these men who have suffered for us, and I shall certainly bring the honorable member's suggestion before the Minister of Defence. In conclusion, I have only to say, in reply to the honorable member for Maribyrnong, that I shall ask the Principal Parliamentary Reporter to supply copies of my speech on the Income Tax Assessment Bill - after the report has been examined by the officers of the Attorney-General's Department - to such honorable members as may desire them.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
House adjourned at 3.54 p.m.
Cite as:Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 5 November 1915, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1915/19151105_reps_6_79/>.