House of Representatives
9 June 1915

6^th Parliament · 1^st Session

PAPERS
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH CONTRACT EMPLOYEES
QUESTION
- LIVERPOOL MANOEUVRE AREA
QUESTION
- HIGH COMMISSIONER
QUESTION
- OLD-AGE PENSIONS
QUESTION
- COALITION GOVERNMENT
QUESTION
- GERMAN CLUB FOR HOSPITAL
QUESTION
- SMALL ARMS FACTORY
QUESTION
- EXPEDITIONARY FORCES
QUESTION
- TRAVELLERS IN FRANCE: PASSPORTS
QUESTION
- POSTAL DEPARTMENT: ADMINISTRATION
QUESTION
- PENSIONS ACT
QUESTION
- MAIL CONTRACTORS
QUESTION
- ADELAIDE LABOUR CONFERENCE
QUESTION
- AMERICAN BEEF TRUST
QUESTION
- THURSDAY ISLAND CENSORSHIP
QUESTION
- PRICE OF MEAT
QUESTION
- PARTY LEGISLATION
QUESTION
- MELBOURNE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE
QUESTION
- PREFERENCE TOUNIONISTS
QUESTION
- FISCAL QUESTION
QUESTION
- LAND TAX REMISSION’S
QUESTION
- CHARITY RELIEF FUNDS
QUESTION
- DEFENCE DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- INTERNMENT OF GERMANS AND AUSTRIANS
QUESTION
- HOME AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- SORTERS AND LETTER CARRIERS
POSTPONEMENT
TARIFF
- Fodder Duties
- In Committee of Ways and Means :
ESTIMATES, 1914-15
- Department of External Affairs
- Division 34 (Administrative). £22,343
ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 3792

PAPERS

The following papers were presented: -

Inter-State Commission Act -

Inter-State Commission - Tariff Investigation - Appendices to Reports : Statistical and other information, and Evidence -

Ale and beer.

Apparel, viz., socks and stockings.

Brushware, brushmakers’. drafts, and brushmakers’ woodware.

Copper, refined - Bounty.

Electrotypes, stereotypes, and matrices.

Enamelledware and hollo wware.

Fruits, fresh.

Paints and colours, varnishes, and paint oils.

Vehicles and parts, including motor vehicles.

Writing inks and ink powders.

Ordered to be printed.

Audit Act - Treasury Regulation Amended - Statutory Rules 1915, No. 78.

War, The - Gold Coast - Correspondence Relating to the Military Operations in Togoland.

page 3793

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH CONTRACT EMPLOYEES

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Attorney- General read the statement made at a meeting of the South Australian Chamber of Manufactures that the Commonwealth contracts are being carried out by the scum of the earth ? Can the gentleman who made that statement be brought to book for it under the Crimes Act?

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– Beyond entering an emphatic protest against the statement, I do not know what we can do to the person who made it.

page 3793

QUESTION

LIVERPOOL MANOEUVRE AREA

Land Resumption

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister of Home Affairs, since the House adjourned last Friday, been able to look into the land resumption case connected with the Liverpool Manoeuvre Area which I brought under his notice, and has he done anything in regard to it?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I have looked into the case, and find that there is a great difference between the compensation claimed by the owner of the land and the offer of the Crown, the owner asking about £900, and the Crown offering about £200.

Mr Fleming:

– That is one of the little tricks of the ‘Crown.

Mr ARCHIBALD:

– The case will have to go before the Court, which will determine the value of the land.

page 3793

QUESTION

HIGH COMMISSIONER

Mr J, H CATTS:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

– The Minister of

External Affairs stated last week that Sir George Reid has been definitely informed that his occupation of the office of High Commissioner will “ shortly cease. Have the Government in mind a successor?

Mr MAHON:
Minister for External Affairs · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The appointment of a successor to Sir George Reid has not yet been considered by the Cabinet, but it will be dealt with in due course.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Are we to understand from the answer given by the Minister of External Affairs that he has officially told Sir George Reid that his term of office will not be extended when the period for which he was last appointed expires? If so, when was Sir George so informed?

Mr MAHON:

– Sir George Reid was informed some time ago that his termof office would be extended for twelve months. Some communications subsequently took place between the Government and Sir George Reid, and on 22nd April I think - there was an earlier notification by cable - Sir George was informed by letter that there would be no further extension of the term after the twelve months had expired.

Mr PIGOTT:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister be good enough to give the House the reasons why he desires that the services of Sir George Reid shall not be continued ?

Mr MAHON:

– The original term of office stated in the Act creating the office of High Commissioner was five years. I presume Parliament had good reasons for fixing that period. In addition to the five years, however, Sir George Reid is to serve this Government for an additional period of twelve months. Personally I think that an absence of six years from Australia is a long term for a gentleman occupying such an office.

Mr PIGOTT:

– I desire to ask the Minister of External Affairs whether the High Commissioner, Sir George Reid, has not given entire satisfaction to the Commonwealth during his six years of office.

Mr Hampson:

– On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, I would ask whether the honorable member is not contravening a ruling recently given by you that it is not in order to base a question on one just answered.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I think that the question put by the honorable member for Calare is a legitimate one.

Mr MAHON:

– The honorable member’s question is such as he should hardly expect me to answer. I do not think itright that he should press for my individual opinion as to whether or not

Sir George Reid’s representation of the Commonwealth has come up to Australia’s expectations. I have no complaint to make of Sir George Reid’s representation of Australia in London, but he must recognise that after so many years’ absence from the Commonwealth he must be, to some extent, out of touch with Australian public feeling and public opinion.

page 3794

QUESTION

OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Mr PIGOTT:

– In view of the high cost of living, brought about by the drought and the Tariff, will the Prime Minister take into consideration the advisability of increasing the allowance to old-age pensioners which was promised during the last electoral campaign?

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– We have considered the advisability of increasing the sums paid to old-age pensioners, and to others, andour policy will be announced at the proper time.

page 3794

QUESTION

COALITION GOVERNMENT

Mr HAMPSON:

– Is it the intention of the Government to form a coalition with the Opposition during the war, a course that has been suggested by some of the newspapers?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

– I have heard only a rumour of the suggestion, and do not propose to take any notice of it until something more definite is known.

Mr FLEMING:

– Is it not a fact that the Prime Minister and his party are pledged not to form a coalition Ministry under’ any circumstances?

Mr FISHER:

– It is not a fact that the party is pledged, and I am against it.

page 3794

QUESTION

GERMAN CLUB FOR HOSPITAL

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Minister representing the Minister of Defence whether his Department has yet come to any decision with regard to the offer of the premises of the German Club in Sydney for use for hospital purposes?

Mr JENSEN:
Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

– No decision had been come to on Saturday last.

– I do not know whether they were asked or not.

Mr J H CATTS:

– I understand the Assistant Minister of Defence is in a position to answer that question.

Mr JENSEN:

– As I understand it, the Public Works Committee had full power of inquiry into anything concerning that factory which might tend to increase the output, either by putting in another shift, or two more shifts, if they thought fit.

page 3795

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Treatment op Nurses] - -DISENROLMENT - Discharge - Non-delivery of Correspondence and Newspapers - Casualty Lists - Services of Expert Riflemen - Provision for Dependants.

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

– I ask the Naval Minister if he has read in this morning’s Age the complaint that the Defence Department is sweating the nurses? Is there any truth in what has been said on that subject? If there is ground for the complaint, will the Government, which represents the Democracy of Australia, put the nurses on the same level as private soldiers?

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– As officers!

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– I have not read the complaint, nor am I aware that the Department is sweating the nurses. I shall have the matter inquired into, and will let the honorable member know the result.

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

– As the complaint has been made that the names of men going to the front have in some cases been struck off the electoral rolls, will the Prime Minister give the instruction that this is not to be done?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

– I am not acquainted with the provisions of the Electoral Act which govern whatever action is being taken, but I hope that the electoral officers will hesitate before striking off the roll the names of soldiers.

Mr Glynn:

– Their names are on the roll of honour, at any rate.

Mr FISHER:

– Yes. Names should not be removed, from the electoral roll unless there are good and sufficient reasons for their removal. The matter will be looked into from the legal and administrative points of view.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Seeing that a number of men have been discharged from the Expeditionary Forces after, some of them, putting in drill for several months, will the Department make some arrangement so that those who are connected with the Army Medical Corps may serve in either the hospitals or the ambulance companies at or near the front ? Many of these men are desirous of rendering some service to their country.

Mr JENSEN:

– They will get relief from the special appropriation.

Mr Page:

– When?

Mr SPENCE:

– Immediately.

page 3797

QUESTION

ADELAIDE LABOUR CONFERENCE

Land Taxation

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– Did the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General join with trade unionist delegates at the Adelaide Labour Conference in passing resolutions in favour of materially altering the incidence of the land taxation passed by this Parliament during the present session? If so, who is responsible for the Labour Government’s legislation ?

Mr SPEAKER:

– I think that is a question upon which I must intervene. It is one which does not affect in any way the business before the House, and, that being so, it ought not to be asked.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Minister of Defence, and I take it that if my colleague sees anything in a newspaper which ought not to appear he will immediately enter into correspondence with the censor concerned.

page 3798

QUESTION

PREFERENCE TOUNIONISTS

Mr GREGORY:

– Since the Prime Minister has stated that it is the intention of his Government to legislate, and to administer the affairs of the Commonwealth, in the interests of the whole of the people, will the right honorable gentleman immediately direct the withdrawal of the tyrannical instruction recently given to heads of Departments that only members of trade unions shall be employed by them?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

– No such instruction has been given. An order was issued, but not equivalent to that implied by the honorable member’s question.

page 3798

QUESTION

FISCAL QUESTION

Speech by Sir George Reid.

Mr CHANTER:

asked the Minister of

External Affairs, upon notice -

Has his attention been directed to the leading article in the Age of 29th May last, in which it criticises the statements of Sir George Reid, High Commissioner for Australia, in reference to his declared fiscal policy, and that of the Commonwealth?
If so, does he intend taking any action in the matter?

Mr MAHON:
ALP

– Yes, I have seen both the article in the newspaper referred to and the report of proceedings at the dinner of the Imperial Industries Club, held in London on 16th February, 1915, which apparently was the occasion of the remarks under review. Having read this, I have formed the opinion that it was a characteristically humorous speech by Sir George Reid on both sides of the fiscal question, and having no political significance.

page 3798

QUESTION

LAND TAX REMISSION’S

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Whether he is aware that the Taxation Commissioner (Mr. McKay) has warned taxpayers that applications for remissions under the distress clauses of the Act will only be considered in cases where the taxpayer is practically insolvent?
Do the’ Government indorse Mr. McKay’s interpretation of the Act in the matter of relief provisions?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

-The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

No. The Commissioner informs me that he has issued no such warning, but is strictly following the law as amended, and as interpreted by the Crown Law advisers.
Yes.

Mr FLEMING:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

How many applications have been received from taxpayers asking to be released from paying the land tax for the present year, owing to the severe drought suffered in so many parts of the Commonwealth?
Will he instruct the Commissioner to postpone payment of the tax until these applications have been investigated by the Board provided for by section 66 of the Land Tax Assessment Act 1910-1911, as amended by section. 4 of Act No. 29, 1914?

Mr FISHER:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Forty-seven.
In all cases where a prima facie case has been made out under section 66, it is already the practice to inform taxpayers that payment of tax may be deferred, without penalty, until their cases are determined by the Board.

page 3798

QUESTION

CHARITY RELIEF FUNDS

Mr HAMPSON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether, in view of the scandals which in the past have arisen over the public contributions to certain charity relief funds, he will confer with the Attorney-General, with a view to have some public supervision of the collection and distribution of the money, and the expenses incurred in connexion with the various patriotic funds?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

– I shall consult the Attorney-General on the matter, and let the honorable member know the result.

page 3798

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Royal Australian Navy: Employment in Naval Stores and Dockyards - Construction of Cruiser - Temple’s Safety Flying Machine - Broadmeadows Camp: Death Rate - Cost of Cruisers Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane.

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

How many officers and men of the Royal Navy are at present employed in the dockyards, naval stores, and naval shove establishments in the Commonwealth?
How many officers and men of the Royal Australian Navy are so employed?
Has the Imperial Government made any request that the officers and men of the Royal Navy be relieved for duty with the Imperial Navy?
Has the Government made any offer to the Imperial Government in this direction?
Is the Government prepared to relieve the officers and men of the Royal Navy and fill their places with Royal Australian Navy men?

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– As portion of this question deals with a matter which the Naval Department regard as secret, I shall hand the answer to the honorable member, and any other honorable member may also see it confidentially, if he desires to do so.

Mr WEST:
for Mr. Mahony

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Is it intended to construct another cruiser similar to the Brisbane at the Naval Dockyards, Cockatoo Island?
If so, has any materialbeen ordered?
What is the nature, and whatis the quantity, of the material ordered?
Have the plates for the construction of the boilers been ordered; and, if so, when are they expected to arrive?
Has a decision been arrived at to construct for the next cruiser at Cockatoo Island the necessary propelling and auxiliary machinery?
Has the material for the blading and the steel drum and steel shafts been ordered; and, if so, when is it expected to arrive?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : - 1: Yes - of a modified type.

Yes.

The answers to questions 3, 4, 5, and 6 are of a secret character, but I shall be pleased to give the information sought to the honorable member or to any other honorable member who may desire to be furnished with it.

Mr WEST:

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Did the Department of Defence receive a communication in relation to a safety flying machine, the invention of Edward Temple, and, if so, on what date?
Was an appointment made for that inventor to meet Lieutenant Harrison in Sydney on 26th November, 1914; did that officer have the meeting referred to, and, if so, did he report to the Department on the invention?
Has the Defence Department considered that officer’s report, and arrived at a decision; if so, has that decision been communicated to the inventor, and, if not, what has been the cause of delay?
Has the Minister of Defence any objection to send, confidentially or otherwise, a report to the inventor; if he has not, will he direct this to be done promptly?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes. Many letters have been received in regard to this invention. Thefirst is dated 30th October, 1909, the last 11th May, 1915. On 14th March, 1914, Mr. Temple furnished some particulars of his invention. These were referred to the officer in charge of the Aviation School, who examined them, and submitted an unfavorable report, a copy of which was sent to Mr. Temple on 9th April, 1914.
Lieutenant Harrison met Mr. Temple in Sydney about the 26th November, 1914. On the same day he was recalled to head-quarters for active service, and he left for service abroad immediately afterwards. He did not submit any report. On receipt of a letter dated 11th May, 1915. from Mr. John Plumb, on behalf of Mr. Temple, inquiry was made from Lieutenant Harrison, who had, in the meantime, returned to Australia, and that officer sent in a rough note he had made at the time of his interview with Mr. Temple.
This note confirms the previous report communicated to Mr. Temple on 9th April, 1914. Mr. Plumb, on behalf of Mr. Temple, will be informed accordingly. The reason of the delay in so informing him is the pressure of more important and more urgent work in the Department.
See 3.

If any inconvenience has been caused to Mr. Temple by delay in replying to correspondence, this is regretted.

Mr FLEMING:

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Is there anything in the statement appearing in a letter in the Argus of Friday, 4th June, that the death rate at Broadmeadows Camp is considerably greater than the average death rate of the Commonwealth?
If so, will he take immediate steps to rectify such an unsatisfactory state of affairs?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

The death rate at Broadmeadows appears to be slightly above the average for the Commonwealth.
This matter has been receiving the Minister’s special consideration to insure that every care is taken to give the best possible attention to sick men.

Mr PIGOTT:

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Whether he will inform the House of -

The cost of the construction of H.M.A.S. Sydney and Melbourne?

The cost to date of H.M.A.S. Brisbane, now on the stocks?

The present estimated final cost of the * Brisbane* when ready for service?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Sydney, £385,000; Melbourne, £405,000.
Up to date, £474,058.
£610,000.

page 3800

QUESTION

INTERNMENT OF GERMANS AND AUSTRIANS

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Is it intended to continue to utilizeRottnest Island, Western Australia, as a place of internment for Germans and Austrians?
Is it correct that these interned persons are, in respect of quarters and food, treated much better than the soldiers in charge of them?
Will the Minister see that the conditions are at least equalized?

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

No.
No.
See answer to 2.

page 3800

QUESTION

HOME AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT

Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway: Estimated Cost: Revenue and Expenditure - Federal Capital Buildings : Competition for Designs

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

What was the original estimated cost of the construction of the Transcontinental Railway?
Did this estimate include any provision for -
1. Contractor’s plant; if. so, what amount ?
2. Water supplies; if so, what amount?
What was the original estimated period for the completion of the line? 4. (a) When was work started at the Port Augusta end?
1. When was work started at the Kalgoorlie end?
What has been the total cost to date, inclusive of all expenditure on contractor’s plant, rolling-stock, water supplies, &c?
How many miles have been completed -
1. Of earthworks?
2. Of platelayihg?
3. Of ballasting?
What will be the total mileage of the railway from Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

£4,045,000 for an unballasted line with 70-lb. rails, and navvies’ wages at 10s. per diem. 2. (a) Yes; but amount not specifically shown..
1. £456,000.
No period was officially stated. 4.(a) 13th July, 1912, although twelve months later only 6 miles of line had been laid. First sod was turned on 14th August, 1912.
1. 16th November, 1912, although twelve months later only 12 miles of line had been laid. First sod was turned on 12th February, 1913.
£3,550,000.
(a) 531 miles 28 chains.

520 miles 16 chains.
40 miles at the eastern end. A considerable mileage has been partly ballasted in the worst places at the western end.
1. 1,053 approximately.

Mr ARCHIBALD:

– On the 20th May, the honorable member for Wakefield asked the following questions in respect to the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway:

What is the total revenue from all sources received by the Traffic Department on the East- West railway?
The proportions respectively-
1. From Government Departments for services rendered?
2. From wharfage?
3. From the outside public?
The total expenditure?

The answers are as follow: -

The total credit for the period 1st January, 1914, to 31st March, 1915, was £88,839.
The proportions of this amount are -
1. In connexion with construction material, £75,854 (which includes £3,969 for wharfage).
2. Wharfage, £5,654.
3. Outside public, £12,985 (which includes £1,685 wharfage, and a small amount received from State Departments) .
The total working expenditure from 1st January, 1914, to 31st March, 1915, was £90,340.

Mr FINLAYSON:

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

Whether the Government have approved of the scheme, which the Minister stated in the House on 27th May had been submitted, the effect of which would be to confine the competition for the Parliamentary Buildings at Canberra to architects within the British Empire?
In view of the fact that in the competition for the lay-out of the city the placed designs were submitted from America, France, and Sweden, does the Minister consider that there is anything to be gained by depriving these and other countries from competing for the buildings?
Will the Minister favorably consider any suggestions that may be received in the direction of making the competition as world-wide as possible?

Mr ARCHIBALD:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

The proposed amended scheme of competition is based on that already issued, and is now receiving ‘ consideration by the Federated Council of Architects, and the Federal Capital Director of Design and Construction preparatory to its final adoption.
It is considered that since the war, conditions have so altered that the most practicable and advisable course will be to restrict the competition to British countries. In the previous competition for the lay-out of the city the conditions were not acceptable to British designers, and practically no designs from them were forthcoming.
There are no objections to receiving further suggestions, but the matter has been fully considered by the Government, and the opinion is that the course proposed to be adopted will, in all the circumstances, be satisfactory.

page 3801

QUESTION

SORTERS AND LETTER CARRIERS

Mr WEST:
for Mr. Mahony

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

Is it a fact that a number of letter carriers at General Post Office, Sydney, have been taken from their ordinary work of delivering letters and put on doing sorters’ work?
Is it a fact that sorters’ maximum salary is £192 per annum, whereas letter carriers’ salary is at present only £156 per annum?
Is it a fact that the sorters are before the Court for an increase in their salary?
Will the Postmaster-General take steps to see that the sorters’ case before the Court is not prejudiced by the fact of lower-paid mon being put on to do sorters’ work?
Will the Postmaster-General see that . letter carriers are kept at their own work (which they have been doing for very many years), and not used to the detriment of other sections of the service?

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

No. Three letter carriers have been taken off letter delivery duties in Sydney, and -are now employed in sorting mail matter into rounds for delivery by letter carriers. This work has hitherto been performed by sorters in the Sydney General Post Office, but in the suburbs of Sydney and in all other States it is performed by letter carriers. It is not sorters’ work.
Yes.
Yes.
The sorters’ case is not prejudiced in any way by the action taken.
See answer to No. 1.

page 3801

POSTPONEMENT

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– I move -

That Order of the Day No. 1, Government business, be postponed until after consideration of Order of the Day No. 2.

The object of this re-arrangement is to enable the Minister of Trade and Customs to bring before the House a motion relating to the remission of duties on certain commodities.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Parramatta

.- Will the Minister of Trade and Customs indicate the difference between the duties which are to form the subject of his motion and other duties in the general Tariff ? His proposal is, I understand, to make lawful, by a resolution of this Parliament, the remission of certain duties. How is the particularizing of this item rendered necessary? Does not the item stand on the same footing a3 any other item in the Tariff ?

Mr TUDOR:
Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP

– In February, the Government discovered that there was a considerable shortage of fodder, and as Parliament was not sitting we could not remit the duty on that commodity. We promised the importers, however, that we would hand back to them any duty they might pay on imported oats, bran, pollard, hay, chaff and straw. I had expected that the Tariff would have come under consideration earlier in the session, and that we should have had an opportunity of dealing with this remission of duty in -the ordinary course of dealing with the Tariff. As, however, consideration of the Tariff has been delayed, the duty which the business people have paid on these imports is held up by the Government pending, parliamentary sanction to remit it, and I am taking action now to convenience the importers, many of whom are small men.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The whole of this discussion is irregular at this stage. I take it that the Prime Minister is asking for leave to take a certain course, and that the House will grant it; but I mention the irregularity now, so that the discussion which has taken place may not be regarded as a precedent.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– I am under the impression that the House can alter the order of its business at any time during the sitting.

Mr SPEAKER:

– There is a time when the order of business can be altered, but the Government have not taken the course which would allow of that being done in a regular way. The Standing Orders specifically state that when the Order of the Day for Supply is called upon, with the exception of every third’ Thursday, I shall leave the Chair immediately. If that practice were not followed, we should have a grievance day on every occasion when a motion to go into Supply was before the House, instead of only once in every three weeks. In those circumstances, I could not regularly allow a discussion to take place at this stage of the proceedings. As, however, I understand the House has no objection to the course proposed by the Prime Minister, I am allowing the motion to proceed.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 3802

TARIFF

Fodder Duties

In Committee of Ways and Means :

Mr. TUDOR (Yarra- Minister of

Trade and Customs) [3.50]. - I move -

That the Schedule to the Customs Tariff 1914 as amended by the Resolution proposed by the Minister for Trade and Customs on the twelfth day of December One thousand nine hundred and fourteen be further amended as hereunder set out, and that on and after the twenty-seventh day of February One thousand nine hundred and fifteen at nine o'clock in the forenoon, Victorian time, Duties of Customs he collected in pursuance of the Customs Tariff as so amended.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order! I have allowed the honorable member considerable latitude. I ask him not to proceed further with that argument.

Mr MCWILLIAMS:

– It would have been better if the Government had dealt with all the subjects that are involved in one resolution, so that the House could have gone into the matter thoroughly, instead of in the piecemeal manner proposed. I have no objections to, the resolution. I believe, in spite of the interjections that have been made, that the drought from which Australia is suffering at the present time, particularly so far as concerns Western Australia, South Australia,’ Victoria, and Tasmania, has been the most severe that any of these States have experienced since their foundation, and it is a matter for regret that Tariff revision was not dealt with before. In some portions of the southern States it is practically impossible to buy some of the items enumerated in the resolution, except at prices which place them beyond the reach of the ordinary consumer. My only regret is that the Government have not dealt with this matter in one broad comprehensive measure.

Mr ATKINSON:
Wilmot

.- I was not in the Committee when the resolution was moved, and I did not hear the Minister’s explanation of the idea that the Government have regarding the period during which it is intended that this Bill shall operate. I presume the

Government do not expect the Committee

Mr Tudor:

– I will reply to that now if the honorable gentleman sits down.

Mr TUDOR:
Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP

– In reference to the question asked by the honorable member for Cook, I would like to say that the Government did take action. In October, when the Premiers met in Melbourne, I visited the Conference on more than one occasion, and afterwards, on behalf of the Federal Government, I approached the Premiers individually, with a view to some joint action being taken. It was known that there was likely to be a shortage of about 300,000 tons of fodder in Victoria.

Mr J H Catts:

– What amount was available t

Mr TUDOR:

Mr TUDOR:

– The Tariff will be reached before the harvest. I can assure the honorable member on that point.

Progress reported.

page 3808

ESTIMATES, 1914-15

In Committee of Supply (Consideration resumed from 2nd June. vide, page 3629) :

Department of External Affairs

Division 34 (Administrative). £22,343

Mr PALMER:
Echuca

.- Last week, when the honorable member for Grey was addressing himself to these Estimates, he censured the Government for their want of policy in regard to the Northern Territory. It is not the fact that there has been an entire absence of policy in regard to this territory. In my opinion, there has been clear evidence of a well-defined policy, and I do not know that we can object altogether to it, because that policy has been in consonance with the Government’s general belief. It has been a Socialistic policy - a policy which, however suitable it might be to some people under some conditions, is bound to fail when applied to the development of a territory such as the Northern Territory. Last year the total deficiency amounted in round figures to £500,000. Out of that deficiency the sum of £26,880 has to be provided for in these Estimates for the payment of salaries. The Minister admitted in this Committee, some time ago, that the Northern Territory presents very great difficulties. I think his speech was the most pessimistic utterance that I have ever listened to from a Minister in charge of a large and important Department. It seemed “to me, to be a cry of hopelessness; but we are piling up these deficiencies year “after year, without making any progress. The

Batchelor Farm, started with a good deal of eclat, has been practically abandoned. The cattle taken up there have been so treated that they appear to have been lamentable failures, and the whole thing is depressing in the extreme. In view of the fact that the Government’s Socialistic policy, when applied to the Northern Territory, has proved itself a failure, [ think it is high time that we should seek to induce the Government to adopt some other policy. What I suggest is that we should, at the earliest possible moment, get rid of a large number of the highly-paid officials who have been sent up to the Territory, and save the expenses incidental to their existence there, which would be by no means limited to the large amount paid in salaries. Having done this, the Government should embark upon some well-defined policy whereby the natural resources of the Territory can be developed. There is only one way in which that can be done, it is by the establishment of railways. The Northern Territory should be coupled up, according to our agreement with South Australia, to Oodnadatta, and in the direction of the Macdonnell Ranges, at the earliest possible moment; but I think, also, that there should be railway communication with Queensland. The only policy that can be of any service must be a vigorous policy. As things are now, we are simply frittering away £100,000 this year, and £100,000 next year, without accomplishing anything. There must be a vigorous policy if the Territory is to be developed, and. I suggest that that policy should be a borrowing policy, to raise money so that the necessary railways can be quickly constructed. So far as the Oodnadatta railway is concerned, I do not think that there is any question at all about its desirability, or that the country in the Macdonnell Ranges is not eminently suited to the production of meat, and more particularly beef. I venture to think that if there had been a railway across that area at the present time, we should have been saved the exorbitant prices which have recently been charged for meat in Australia. The construction of such a railway in accordance with a policy which would not impose any immediate additional taxation on the people, would open up the country, would gradually lead to its being inhabited and exploited, and would so benefit, not only the Territory “itself, but the people of the Commonwealth as a whole. Since we are contributing year after year so much towards the maintenance of the Territory, we are entitled to expect that something shall be done at the earliest possible moment to give us a return for our money, and, so far as I can see, the only means by which we can secure a return is the production of vast quantities of meat at a lower price than that at which we oan obtain it elsewhere. I listened carefully to the speech made last week by the honorable member for Wimmera, who advocated a policy with which I am in no way in agreement. The honorable member urged that we should obtain from India the services of an engineering expert, possessing high qualifications, to advise us with regard to an irrigation policy for the Northern Territory. I am soundly convinced that an irrigation policy is suited only to a welldeveloped country, and not to a virgin land like the Northern Territory. I hope, therefore, that the Minister will not give any serious consideration to such a policy. We can readily guess what would be the report made by an irrigation expert from India. He would, in all probability, say that we ha.ve in the Northern Territory the necessary water supply to irrigate certain parts’ of it, and that, under certain conditions, it would be a profitable venture. But we must not lose sight of the fact that his experience of irrigation would have been gained in a country where the cost of labour is purely nominal, whereas no successful irrigation policy could be carried out where labour is at such a price as that likely to prevail in the Northern Territory. The Department of External Affairs is becoming more interesting since it now not only administer^ the Northern Territory, but also controls Papua. 1 have a few observations to offer with regard to that Commonwealth Territory. The last report which we have received from the LieutenantGovernor of Papua shows that in 1912-13 the territorial revenue amounted to £54,000, or £6,000 in excess of the revenue for the previous year, and more than double that received five years ago. These figures, so far as they go, are eminently satisfactory. They indicate progress and development, and show that the administration of the Territory is moving, to’ some extent, along satisfactory lines. But there is another important statement embodied in this report which acts as an antidote to any feeling of congratulation which the reading of these figures might arouse. I refer to the paragraph in which it is stated that “ the volume of trade last year shows a decline of £11,000.” That is an unpleasant fact in respect of a country that has been developed to a considerable extent at our expense. The total receipts last year were £112,000, and of that amount the Commonwealth contributed in various ways £63,000.

Mr Richard Foster:

– Or more than one half the total revenue.

Mr PALMER:

– Quite so. One of the most serious aspects of this decline in the volume of trade is that it relates to exports, which were £5,000 less than for the previous year. The Lieutenant-Governor’s report goes on to say -

This decline in the exports is due to the reduced output of gold, which was £15,000 less than the previous year.

I regret that this is so, and I think it worthy of note that the gold-mining ventures in Papua are not proving as successful as we might have hoped. In the absence of a larger output of gold, the progress of the Territory is not likely to be rapid. There is yet another very unsatisfactory fact relating to the occupation of land in Papua. I am surprised to learn from this report that the area under lease has decreased regularly since 1911. In 1913-14 the area under lease was 60,000 acres less than in 1912-13. That is not an evidence of development. There must be a screw loose somewhere, and we have to ask ourselves whether we are securing a fair return for our money. Judge Murray refers to a report made by Dr. Arthur Wade, which deals with petroleum in Papua, and is good enough to say that it is eminently satisfactory. I regard it as being eminently unsatisfactory. I have been studying recently the question of petroleum and oils, and find that it is said by one excellent authority that if a map of the world were marked with a red spot at every place where there are indications and showings of petroleum, it would present the appearance of a person suffering from smallpox. The idea sought to hs> conveyed by that statement is that indications of petroleum are very widely distributed over the face of the earth. But there are certain places where petroleum is in great abundance, where it has proved of’ inestimable value and of great profit. I, for one, would thank God if we could find a good flow of crude oil in Australia or Papua. It would be worth making a considerable sacrifice to secure. Dr. Wade’s report gives some indication that there is likely to be a favorable issue to the operations being carried on in various parts of Papua. He tells us, at page 15 of his report, that -

Three miles to the east of the mission station at Orokolo we found a series of mud volcanoes in the coastal fringe of hills just over one mile north of the fishing village of Hohoro. . . . From Ekoa a series of vents extend eastward for about 4 miles towards Vaiviri on the Vailala River. The mud volcanoes consist chiefly of large flat cones varying from a few inches in diameter to about 20 feet. Much gas is escaping, along with brine, and good showings of petroleum.

The sum total of the encouragement appears to be that the indications are good. In various places, we are told, there is a possibility of striking a good flow, but we have no definite assurance on the subject. The writer of this report goes on to urge the need of caution. He is a prominent authority, and we find him stating -

After mature consideration of all the conditions, I, therefore, recommend that the plant necessary for the safe, rapid, and economical development of the Papuan areas is the Parker Mogul rotary of the latest type, and that the Parker firm be asked to supply to each plant two drillers with a guaranteed practical experience of their system. This, however, will entail considerable expenditure, and it may bewell to delay until the present plants on the field have been more thoroughly tested.

In other words, we must be cautious. Before entering upon an enterprise which would involve much expenditure, we must make the best use of the small and inefficient plant we already have. Again, at page 34 of his report, Dr. Wadestates -

Gate valves should be available on the fieldfor controlling and checking the flow of oil, should it be struck. “Should it be struck!” Notwithstanding all his knowledge and experience as a geologist, Dr. Wade is not prepared to> make any more definite statement. At pags 37 of his report he advises rigid economy -

Rigid economy, as far as efficiency will allow, should be exercised until commercial quantities of petroleum are struck. Operations? should be hastened with this in view in order to put the working on a sound financial basis.

I come now to what is the more important part of this report, which deals with the policy of the Government for the development of the field which has been examined. Dr. Wade says -

The declared policy of the Commonwealth Government is to reserve the oil-field for Government exploitation. It is, therefore, obvious that the development must necessarily be comparatively slow for financial reasons. He says further -

The effect of the Government policy will, therefore, in case of success, mean that no great output, such as is the case in privatelyowned fields, can be expected from New Guinea for a considerable period.

This comes from a disinterested source. The author of this report is not committed to a policy either for or against Stateowned or State-controlled fields. But he points out that if this work is undertaken by the Government, it must necessarily be a slow, and therefore an expensive, process.

Mr Fenton:

– Is the honorable member putting a proper interpretation upon the report?

Mr PALMER:

– I think I am. Dr. Wade states further -

The oil indications, however, extend over a wide area, and, should the Government think fit, a portion of the field could be thrown open to private enterprise. Taking Kerema as the dividing line, if the Government retained the enormous area to the west, there still remains a large area to the east whichis likely to be idle for a long time. It may be worth while considering whether it is good policy to leave this area undeveloped.

I would urge the Minister to give some consideration to this particular recommendation. Dr. Wade reports that -

If private enterprise is to be admitted, it must be done in the early stages, otherwise if the results in the initial stages of the Government exploitation of the western field fall short of expectation, it may make it difficult for companies to raise the money required. Such disappointments are always possible.

A good deal of importance attaches to that proposal. If we are going to develop this or any other portion of the oil fields by private enterprise, then, as Dr. Wade says, it is essentially necessary that private enterprise be given the first chance, because if an area proved disappointing it would be very difficult to induce any one to put capital into such a venture in other parts of Papua. Another serious matter - the last to which I shall draw attention - relates to the question of labour. Dr. Wade says -

Labour is not cheap in Papua when compared with wages paid in other oil fields with which

I am acquainted. Wages vary from 10s. to £2 per month for labourers and foremen, and, in addition, the men must be housed, fed on meat, rice, tea, sugar, and vegetables, or equivalents, and supplied with a quantity of tobacco weekly, according to Government schedules. A few skilled native workers get as much as £8 a month with these additions. On the whole, the Papuan labourer is well paid, well fed, well housed, and well treated in every respect.

.- It is not my intention to discuss a general policy for the Northern Territory; I shall simply content myself with saying that I have confidence in the future of that great province. Its climate, soil and rainfall are of such a character that w.e are justified in believing in the ultimate successful development of the Territory, but I am prepared to admit that the problem before us is a serious one, and will not be easily solved. The difficulty pf the problem is increased by the fact that every time a State Government very rightly endeavours to make its own State more attractive for its people, that very endeavour detracts from the attractiveness of the Northern Territory, because, naturally, people will not go so far afield if they think they can do just as well nearer home. The people who go to the Territory are those who gaze into the future, and are prepared to surrender immediate comforts and pleasures for the sake of greater rewards in the years to come. Therefore, it is necessary for us to exercise patience in tackling the great problem of settling and developing the Territory. Ultimately, I am convinced, we shall accomplish that end, but only after many failures. I do not think that any one Minister, either now or in the future, will be able to populate and develop that territory successfully without first making failures. I have been rather surprised to hear some of the opinions expressed by members from South Australia. The opinions they are expressing to-day are rather different from those that were expressed in the years before the Federal Government took over the responsibility for the Territory. I refer, particularly, to those of the honorable member for Wakefield.

Mr Mcwilliams:

– The honorable member for Wakefield was opposed to

– You would not put a

Dar on returned soldiers going there?

Mr THOMAS:

– No; I should give them every facility, if they desired to go. As I said, when I saw the eagerness with which the Argus took up the idea, I was confirmed in my view that it was not a sound one, because these soldiers should “have the best we can give them.

Mr. MCWILLIAMS (Franklin) r5.35]. - We are accustomed to an annual discussion on the Northern Territory, though I must confess that we never seem to get much further forward. My view of the matter can be stated very briefly. The whole history of British colonization shows nothing like so stupendous a failure as that of the Northern Territory. For 100 years that part of Australia has been settled, practically in the same way as. were many other of the States, which have since done so well. Melville Island was settled as Sydney, Hobart, Fremantle, and other places were - as a military centre - but the Territory has never made any progress since. The capital town has been shifted to Port Essington, and from one place to another, and the expenditure has run into over £5,000,000; and yet, to-day, if we put aside Government officials, there are fewer people in the Territory than at any time during the last fifty years. The one mine which practically produces all the gold in the Territory is worked by fifty-seven Chinese and five whites, and this proportion is general on the Territory gold-fields. On some of the tin-fields a little more white labour is employed, but these fields at present cannot be called a success. No person can read the last official report without being struck with the entire absence of anything like a proper policy of settlement. When the late Mr. Batchelor inaugurated experimental farms, I supported the idea as at least an attempt to do something, though I am not generally favorable to such enterprises by the Government. Those farms have proved nothing but one long, ghastly failure, from start to finish. Here is what the Administrator said in his report - -

The progress of land settlement has been disappointingly slow, as will be seen by the report of the Director of Lands. Yet on the whole I am not surprised. While the southern States continue an active policy of land settlement in districts already partly settled, the Territory will not offer any real inducement for the small farmer with reasonable capital to transfer his home from the south. And as, apparently, there is still much available land in Australia, where the climate and life generally offer more attractions than in the north, this is not altogether to be regretted.

What the Administrator says is quite true. While there is land available, and labour to be obtained in the more temperate portions of Australia, it is only a few adventurers - and I use the word in its best sense - who will go to the Territory. Even those who are taken there for Government works almost invariably return south after a very short time; and this, perhaps, is not surprising when we remember that the conditions are so different from what they are elsewhere. What the honorable member for Barrier says is quite correct. While there are great advantages to be obtained in the southern region, we shall not get men, especially married men, to take their families into such an isolated place, where so many hardships and dangers have to be faced. One strong feature was drawn attention to by the Leader of the Opposition; and it is one that this House and the Minister will have to consider. For instance, on page 9 of the Administrator’s report we read -

Recently the Chief Surveyor has handed me reports from three of his surveyors, who assert a deficiency in their men’s work of 60 per cent. during the summer months.

This means that a man is only doing 40 per cent. of the work that is done in the States. There is another statement of great” interest in the report, that which deals with a subject that has been so often discussed in this House, namely, day labour versus contract labour. Honorable members opposite have declared, over and over again, that the Government are getting a very much better return under day labour than under contract; but on page 76 of the report we are told by the Superintendent of Public Works -

During the last year, both systems, viz., day labour and contract. have been tried by this Department in carrying out work, and from the figures submitted herewith there can be but one opinion which of the two systems is the better.. In my two preceding annual reports I have touched upon this question, and I should be wanting in my duty if 1 did not again call Your Excellency’s attentionto the great difference in the cost of similar works carried out by the two different systems.

Mr Mathews:

– This is party politics, pure and simple! There is no great national policy about this!

Mr McWILLIAMS:

– It is all very interesting -

I give two instances : -

Two workers’ cottages in Beetson-street erected By day labour cost £640 each. A cottage of similar design at Fanny Bay gaol, carried out by contract, was finished for £530. besides paying cartage on the longer distance. It will thus be seen that £110 was the difference paid in wages on this day-labour job as compared with an exactly similar one carried out by a contractor. The whole of the materials for both jobs was supplied from the Public Works store, in one instance to the Department, and in the other to the contractor, the price for materials in both cases being the same.

Further, the Superintendent says -

The teacher’s residence, Darwin, by contract cost £1,083. A similar house built on block 596 by d,ay labour cost £1,330 8s. 7d. Certainly in this case the whole of the foundation blocks had to be blasted out and the material carted about a mile further than was thecase in the firsthouse, but even,after allowing for this expenditure, £130, the cost of the house by day labour was £1,200, or £119 more than the contract house.

I do not hear the contractors complain about losing money. In fact, the contractor they have on the Fanny Bay job offered to, take on as many cottages as he could get at the same figure.

There are other quotations here to which I might refer. One, for instance, in which he states that, although the contractor is not working his men as easily as the men are worked by the Government, yet, owing to the curious irony of the situation, these men are giving the contractor infinitely better services than ever they gave to the Government. In dealing with the difficulty of getting men, the Administrator reports -

The great trouble of farming in the NorthernTerritory is the dearth of capable farm bands.

The ex-Minister of External Affairs pointed out that it was quite easy to get good labour.

Mr Thomas:

– I did not say it was quite easy. I said it was easier now than it was.

Mr McWILLIAMS:

– Then the Administrator goes on -

Most of the men applying for work are from cities and towns, without any knowledge whatever of farm or stock work, and–

Northern Territory as a field for our experiments in that direction. The experiment in land tenures in the Federal Capital Territory is, I feel sure,’ being followed with a great deal of attention by the thinking, economic world. When our own people are supplied with farms, when, instead of hundreds of applicants for one block of land, there are hundreds of blocks of land awaiting settlement, we should take charge of the current of emigration from the Old World, which, I feel sure, will set in as soon as this terrible war is over, and direct it to the Northern Territory. People in the older countries of Europe, perhaps overburdened with taxation, will look to this newer land-

Mr Fleming:

– Where the taxation is so light!

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Taxation here is less than in any other country. The executors of the estate of a millionaire in Victoria would have to pay a 10 per cent, probate duty, whereas in Great Britain they would have to pay 15 per cent. Again, a man investing in property in Melbourne would have to pay a municipal rate of ls. 6d. in the £1, running up, in the case of some of the suburban municipalities, to 2s. 3d. in the £1 whereas in London the municipal rating ranges from 8s. 6d. to 14s. 6d. in the £1.

Mr Fleming:

– The executors of a millionaire dying here would have to pay nearly 25 per cent, by way of State and Federal probate duties.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– The extra taxation is only temporary - it is to prevail only during the war.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– There is nothing temporary about it.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– I shall be very pleased to compare the probate duties of Great Britain with those of any State in Australia. Returning to the question which I was discussing when interrupted. I would point out that recently there were something like 1,”000 applicants for three blocks of land in South Australia, and over 500 for one block in Victoria. But when we have supplied the wants of our own people, I should like to see us extend our arms in wide welcome to the white races of the Old World, and employ them in filling up the empty north. Roosevelt, than whom no President of the United States was ever more definite in his statements, once said, “ Fill up your empty north.

It is dangerous to leave it as it is.” I should like to see the Government start building the north-south railway from both ends, instead of beginning, as we are doing, from the more unhealthy part of the Territory. I am anxious that the agreement made with South - Australia shall be kept, and that, as promised, the railway shall run from north to south. I have never failed to express my appreciation of what South Australia did for the rest of the Commonwealth in holding the Northern Territory for it. She held to the Northern Territory when it was a great burden for her to carry, and I must compliment the men of South Australia, who rose to the height, not of politicians, but of statesmen, in the work they did in this connexion. If, overburdened with debt, thousands of the white races of Europe desire to leave a continent which has been decimated and desecrated during this unholy war, we should give them opportunity to come here. What would be better than to settle in the north men with military training? We could require them, if necessary, to take an o’ath quite as binding as that by which Germ’any is seeking to maintain its hold upon its citizens wherever they may be. T.f we had the means, I should willingly give to every man with military training who was prepared to settle in the Northern Territory, monetary assistance, implements with which to work his farm, seed with which to sow it, arid a healthy home, erected in accordance with a common set of plans, for his wife and family,

would also establish in each district a Government experimental farm, where farmers would be able to learn the most up-to-date methods of cultivating the land. In this way we would have land settlement branching out from our railways, and, before long, the north would boast a teeming population. I look to the future of the Northern Territory without fear 6r dread. I have a full appreciation of the potentialities of the socalled empty north. The rivers there are longer, deeper, and navigable for a greater ‘ distance than any of tHe rivers along the southern, the eastern, or the western coasts of Australia. They run through rich country, which can be irrigated, and which, possessing all the splendid growing qualities of the tropics, would prove most fertile, and could be cultivated in small blocks. I urge the Government to press on with the work of development, believing that, just as during this war we are spending money like water in our defence, so, when peace comes, we should be prepared to spend money like water in settling people on the land, arid making them producers as well as consumers.

Mr STUMM:
Lilley

.- I do not propose to prolong this debate for more than a few minutes for the reason that the financial year to which these Estimates relate has almost expired, and the votes covered by them have already been expended. Another reason why I think we should deal with them as quickly as possible is that we ought to apply ourselves with the least possible delay to the great duty which the electors cast upon us at the last general election, and that is, the revision of the Tariff on a sound, scientific, protective basis. That, in my opinion, is a duty which the electors of Australia intrusted to us, and which they expect us to carry out. It is also very necessary that, instead of wasting time on what is likely to prove, shall I say, a profitless discussion, we should proceed to set our house in order. When the war comes to an end, we shall have to deal with greatly changed conditions. We shall have huge financial and industrial problems to solve, and the sooner we prepare for them the better for the people of Australia. My chief object in rising to-night is to take exception to the argument which has been repeated again and again during this discussion, that we are committed, under the agreement made with South Australia, to build a railway north and south, from Oodnadatta to Pine Creek. The agreement with South Australia proves conclusively that the framers contemplated the necessity of the line making a detour from a north and south course. In that agreement South Australia bound itself to authorize, . by legislation, the Commonwealth to do all that is necessary to enable the Commonwealth to make surveys, acquire the necessary land, and to construct a railway iri South Australia proper from a point on the Port Augusta railway to a” point on fine northern boundary line of South Australia proper, to connect with that part of the transcontinental railway to be built iri the North- ern Territory from Port Darwin southward’s to the northern boun’da’ry cif South Australia proper I hold that if we were to carry out the scheme foreshadowed by

Sir John Forrest a few weeks ago ; that is, to build this railway from Newcastle Waters to near the Queensland border, and then turn southwards to Alice Springs, and thence continue to Oodnadatta - we should be carrying out the spirit of that contract.’ Moreover, I believe that that is the route which the transcontinental railway should take. All the evidence we have shows that such a line would pass through tha best country. If, on the other hand, the railway is built due north and south between Oodnadatta and Pine Creek, it will traverse an immense mileage of. poor country, and even then will not develop the Northern Territory. We should still have to face the problem of developing the land between Victoria River on the one side and the Barclay Downs on the other. I cannot understand why the Queensland Government did not accept Sir John Forrest’s suggestion that their railway should be extended from Cloncurry to Camooweal, and that the Federal Government should continue the Commonwealth railway from Camooweal towards Newcastle Waters, and also at a given point extend southwards towards Alice Springs.

Mr Yates:

– But the “ also “ was an afterthought, according to the letter.

Mr STUMM:

– The honorable member for Angas showed conclusively last week that there was no intention on the part of Sir John Forrest to dodge the agreement with South Australia. The suggestion which’ the right honorable member for Swan made represents the true way to give the Northern Territory railway communication, and it observes closely the spirit of the agreement. The Commonwealth has spent an enormous sum of money 6n the Territory, because it had to take over all the expenditure incurred by South Australia, and it cannot be denied that so far very poor results’ have been obtained. It is the one portion of Australia where settlement has been a failure. The other States started with difficulties quite as great as those in the Northern Territory, but at no sta’ge in their history were the prospects so discouraging as they are in the Northern Territory to-day. We have listened to most glowing descriptions of the Territory. Some honorable members have said that it is a country with a very fine climate ; another member said it would carry 20,000,000 sheep; others, in turn, have said that it is good horse country, good cattle country, and rich mineral country. We were told by the honorable member for Adelaide, in a very fine phrase, that the possibilities of the Territory are immeasurable. When we look at the statistics relating to the population, and the number of sheep and cattle in the Territory, we cannot recon”cile those glowing descriptions with the actual results. I will admit that the lack of facilities for transport is a serious obstacle. That is all the more reason why we should proceed with the policy of building railways to develop the Territory. We have wasted enough money on fanciful theories. Queensland and other -States were developed in the first place as cattle and sheep country, and along those lines We must proceed to develop the Northern Territory. The other forms of development will follow. The sooner we cease spending money on these beautiful theoretical propositions that sound so well, the better it will be for the public Treasury.

Mr John’ Thomson:

– Would you favour the appointment of an Advisory Committee of tins House?

Mr STUMM:

– Not a Committee of this House, but I believe there would be a great advantage in having an advisory committee. We must admit that the remoteness of the Territory and its nonrepresentation in this Parliament give us less knowledge and less control over it than we have over other portions of the Commonwealth, and there is no doubt that the burden of the Minister is considerably increased in consequence. The thought occurred to me, when this matter was being discussed a few weeks ago, that it was not fair to ask the Minister to immediately propound a policy for the development of the Territory. It will take time and patience to produce a sound policy of that kind, but surely during the forty or fifty years that the Territory has been partially settled we have gained enough experience to put us on the right track. A few nights ago the honorable member for Oxley expressed the hope that the freezing works which Vestey Brothers are erecting in the Territory will be resumed in the near future by the Government, if they have the power to do so. I hope the Government will do nothing of the sort, but will give Vestey Brothers a fair deal in the arrangement which has been made with them. I cannot conceive of anything more mischievous and more likely to deter men with capital from coming to Australia, or those in Australia from investing their money, than indulgence in such wild and irresponsible talk. I have no brief for Vestey Brothers, but I understand they are a British firm, and are investing British capital, and if the works are a success, as I have no doubt they, will be if Vestey Brothers are left alone, that success will represent a long step in the direction of solving the problem of the Territory. Therefore, I say again, let us, for goodness’ sake, be done with theoretical propositions, and, guided by the experience of the past, develop the Territory along the same lines as those on which other portions of the Commonwealth have been so successfully settled and developed.

Mr YATES:
Adelaide

.- The honorable member for Lilley has pleaded with Parliament to adopt a practical method of settling the Territory, and to be done with theoretical ideas. Apparently the practical method of the honorable member is to adopt the suggestion of the right honorable member for Swan, that a railway should be taken into the Northern Territory by a side window. The strategic railway mooted by the Government at the present time is practically based on evidence given before the Commission that investigated the Northern Territory railways and ports. Mr. J. Harper, Assistant Commissioner for Railways in New South Wales, proposed a scheme somewhat similar to that suggested by the honorable member for Swan. He was asked (Q. 620-21), “Are you aware that the contract with South Australia absolutely binds the Commonwealth” to construct the direct line from north to south ?” He replied, “ We are looking at it from a railway point of view only.” Mr. Combes asked him, “Would the system you suggest be used for trucking starving stock in times of drought?” He replied, “Undoubtedly.” My own opinion is that starving stock would not be carried on that roundabout route. Then he was asked, “ In suggesting these eastern connexions, you are not looking at the development of the Territory as the prime reason for building railways?” and his answer was a direct “No.” There we have direct evidence that this suggested railway, which is to go to Broken Hill through Temora,through the far west of New South’ Wales, and on to the Territory, is not. meant to develop the Territory at all.

Mr Stumm:

– I was speaking of theCamooweal line.

Mr YATES:

– It is practically thesame line. Even if it were not, its result would be the same, because it would not develop the Territory. WhenI said that the possibilities of the Territory are immeasurable - a phrase whichwas referred to satirically by the honorable member for Lilley - I was not expressing my own opinion, because I have not seen the Territory; but I was expressing the opinion of those who are qualifier!; to speak, and who do know the truth of what they say. If honorable memberswill read the evidence taken before the Royal Commission, they will make their voices heard, so that in the next Esti-mates provision will be made for theactual development of the Northern Territory, instead of for merely playing with it. Other witnesses before the Commission testified that the only way in which to develop the Territory was to build me north-south railway. We find that thefirst route suggested by the Commission is “ A, South-east - Camooweal.” Seven witnesses subscribed to that line, and amongst them were two Railway Commissioners - one, Mr. Harper; and the other, Mr. Pagan, Deputy Commissioner of Railways in Queensland. The second recommendation was “ B, North-south Central.” Thirty witnesses advocated this route, and twenty also favoured a branch to Camooweal - not to Newcastle Waters and thence to the Territory, allowing time itself to bridge the interval. The Commonwealth spent a large amount of money in endeavouring to ascertain from experts what was the best thing to do, and yet to-day we are still discussing what should be done. Last year the Northern Territory cost the Commonwealth about £470,000, of which between £80,000 and £90,000 represented the loss on the Oodnadatta line. Therefore, it is about time that steps were taken to make effective use of that portion of the Territory’s railway system. It is an established fact that once the belt of country between Oodnadatta and Charlotte Waters is crossed, what is said to be splendid country in regard to both climate and productivity is entered. Some honorable members have cast a doubt on the wheat-growing capability of the Territory. Were they persons who had lived in the Territory for any length of time, I should be prepared to accept their opinion on the subject, but they are persons who have not visited the Territory, or know scarcely anything of it. It is to be remembered, too, that thousands of acres in the southern parts of Australia, which it was once thought were useless for wheat-growing, are now wheat fields. Probably South Australia grows more wheat on country that at one time was held to be useless for wheat-growing than she grows on the land that was regarded from the first as good wheat country. Victoria, again, is growing wheat on mallee country which was long thought to be useless. As to the capability of tha Northern Territory for the growing of wheat, let me quote the opinion of Mr. Giles, the explorer, as stated in a letter written to Mr. J. G. Knight, C.E., Chief Warden of Gold Fields in the Northern Territory, and published in the Northern Territory Times. The letter is dated 11th May, 1880, and Mr. Giles says -

From the northern base of the Macdonnell Range to the west range (Hann), is a distance of 70 miles, the whole of which is magnificently grassed, although timbered thickly in places by mulga (acacia). At 25 miles from the Macdonnell Range are rolling downs, thickly grassed, and equal in richness of soil to any in South Australia, being inundated plains of rich black and red soils, fit for the growth of wheat.

The climatic advantages of this country are beyond dispute.

Mr Pigott:

– The opinion just read does not refer to the country round about Darwin.

Mr YATES:

– We who urge the extension of the railway from the south do not say that the Darwin country will do all that has been claimed for it, but it is to be expected that as settlement follows a line going northwards, stock and human beings will gradually become acclimatized, and when Darwin is reached, will be able to successfully contend with any disadvantage that may exist there. While the representatives of South Australia demand that the right thing shall be done so far as their State is concerned, they have none the less the interests of the Commonwealth at heart. But the proposal of the right honorable member for Swan was to give to Queensland benefits which should go to South Australia. That is evident from the terms of his letter, which I shall read. The right honorable gentleman said -

The Commonwealth would undertake to construct a railway from Camooweal through the Barclay Tableland, and thence up the Katherine River, which will, by that time be connected with Port Darwin.

There is there no hint of the continuation of the line southwards -

In the construction of this work all the traffic of rails, machinery, and sleepers would be carried over the Queensland lines; and I am informed wooden sleepers can be obtained in Queeusland. That in itself during the time of construction would mean an immense advantage to Queensland. Then it would necessarily have the trade of the Northern Territory from Newcastle Waters and the Barclay Tableland, which would all gravitate into Queensland.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– It would never, under any circumstances, go to Adelaide.

Mr YATES:

– I do not anticipate that the production of the Barclay Tableland would go to South Australia, but the extension of the line northwards from Oodnadatta would give us the trade with the Macdonnell Range country. The right honorable member for Swan said further, regarding his proposal -

It would be an outlet for the enterprising people of Queensland, and would encourage them to occupy and utilize thu lands in the Northern Territory.

Why should not the enterprising people of South Australia be encouraged by the extension of the line from Oodnadatta to the Macdonnell Ranges? Have we not a special claim to that advantage? All the evidence of those who know the Northern Territory best points to the conclusion that it should be connected with the rest of Australia by a line going north from the existing line in South Australia. The proposal of the right honorable member for Swan would serve only part of the Territory. The honorable member for Lilley has argued that the right honorable member had in view an extension southwards from Newcastle Waters to Oodnadatta; but the concluding paragraph of the letter is against his contention -

The western portion, however, is impossible, unless we have communication with Queensland, and, if that is denied to us, we must turn our attention to connecting the Northern Territory from Oodnadatta, a policy to which we are already pledged.

What the right honorable member says there is that if the construction of a line from Camooweal to Newcastle Waters were opposed, the Cook Government would be forced to carry out the compact with South Australia by continuing the line northwards from Oodnadatta. The honorable member said, further, that the agreement between South Australia and the Commonwealth does not stipulate the building of the railway from Oodnadatta to Pine Creek. I believe that at the present time a survey is being made from Kingbouya to Oodnadatta. To that I do not object, nor should I object to any deviation from a direct route northwards which would have the effect of serving better country than that on the direct route, so long as the line was extended northwards from Oodnadatta.

Sitting suspended from6.30 to7.45 p.m.

Mr YATES:

– To continue my quotation from Mr. Giles’ letter -

North of Hann Range the country continues good and splendidly grassed, but badly watered. Brackish water has been obtained at 80 foot in abundance. The country oilers every facility for dam sinking. At 20 miles north of Hann Range the road touches the Wood Creek, and follows it a distance of 40 miles, the whole of its course being through richly-grassed plains, with occasional patches of mulga timber, up to the base of Central Mount Stuart, under the foot of which runs the Hanson Creek, where permanent water exists a few inches under the sand, and by using a plough and scoop in the bed of the creek large reservoirs can be scooped out, yielding unlimited supplies of water. The land along the course of the creek maintains its rich character for grass and herbage, improving as it approaches the Stirling Creek, and rendering it exceptional for agricultural or pastoral purposes. Water may be got at an exceedingly shallow depth.

We thus know beyond doubt what the country is like in the Macdonnell Ranges. However, I desire to deal with that phase with which we are more immediately concerned. A Commission of our own creation, which reported last year, gives ample evidence of what the Northern Territory really is, and affords sufficient information on which the Department of External Affairs could do more than simply try to conduct the affairs of this immense area by sending an Administrator on long and circuitous journeys, and, from time to time, receiving reports from him, only to learn from all sorts of sources that there is turmoil and domestic unrest in that quarter. I maintain, and it is the opinion of most people, that, if we could get into the Territory with more ease and expedition, things would begin to right them selves more quickly from an administrative point of view ; and I feel positive that the desired end could be best attained by carrying the proposed railway from north to south. The leases in the Territory expire in 1944, but about one-half of them expire much earlier, and this gives us ample opportunity to review our policy. One settler, in reply to a question put by the Commission in regard to railways said -

In the event of a railway passing through the country, I think that every pastoralist would be quite prepared to surrender portion of his land.

The leases are of such magnitude, simply because of the lack of moans of communication. The report of the Commission says -

The Northern Territory Land Act should be so framed as to allow for that. We can do nearly as much on 3,000 miles of country with a railway as on6,000 miles without a railway….. With compensation for improvements we would be quite prepared to surrender portion of our lease.

Occupiers are forced to hold double the quantity of land under present conditions, but, with proper railway facilities, there would be two settlers where now there is one. Dealing with the matter as affecting the Barclay Tablelands, the report of the Commission says -

Evidence goes to show that under more favorable conditions the stock-carrying capacity would be largely increased. One witness stated that on6,000 square miles his firm at the present time carried 35,000 head, but that he hoped to sec the day when the run, with improvements, would carry 100.000 head.

But there cannot be improvements until proper facilities are afforded, and those facilities, according to the evidence, must take the form of railway communication -

In other words, the carrying capacity is capable of being almost trebled.

If that be so, it is evident that there is something in the country which ought to spur us on to attract population. Another witness, speaking of the Barclay Tablelands, says -

On one station on the Barclay Tablelands sheep have been raised for many years, the present number being 58,000. The industry is under great disabilities owing to insufficiency of water, cost of fencing material, high rate of freight, distance from markets, and scarcity of labour.

These difficulties would be obviated by the provision of a railway; in fact, the witness says -

Those disabilities would be certainly minimixed with railway communication.

Mr Spence:

– What about the Cloncurry railway?

Mr YATES:

– No doubt the Cloucurry railway would assist the Barclay Tablelands more than would the straight-cut railway; but it does not follow that, because the railway is taken from north to south, branches cannot he made, as recommended in the report. There is good country On the west side of the Territory - in the Victoria River and Ord River districts - which i? highly- spoken of by Mr. L. A. Wells, of the South Australian Lands Department. Mr. Wells has explored that part of the country, and his brother lost his life in similar work ; and he tells us that the country west of the telegraph line is some of the most wonderful he has seen. He admits that there are belts of desert, so to speak; but with a railway from the main track into the Victoria River district, there are immense possibilities of development. In conversation with myself he said that he never saw bigger-framed flocks, and never tasted better mutton in his life than he did there; and he is certainly a man who knows what he is talking about. Although the line mentioned by the PostmasterGeneral might be the better one for the Barclay Tablelands, some of the richest country, from a metal-bearing point of view, is to be found in the centre of Australia; and this country, along with the pastoral country, would be best assisted and developed by means of a railway. Speaking of the Victoria River district, one witness before the Commission said -

On an area of about 11,000 square miles (7,040,000 acres) his company was carrying 107,000 head of cattle and 900 head of horses. Ho believed that by providing water it would safely carry 30,000 head more.

To provide water we must provide facilities for conveying the necessary machinery and labour, and there is no doubt that in this way the stocking capacity of the country could he nearly doubled. Another witness, an owner and manager, said -

He held 1,50.0 miles of country, carrying 5,000 head of cattle and 700 horses. In the event of a railway he would be willing, under certain conditions, to surrender part of his country. The block he would surrender would carry 10,000 head of cattle, and not be overstocked.

This the settlers are prepared to do as soon as the Commonwealth is prepared to settle the country, instead of waiting for the Administrator to do it. Another paragraph in the report of the Commission is -

One station owner and manager expressed the opinion that the whole of the Victoria River country, from the Kith parallel south, was, generally speaking, good sheep country. He estimated that with railway facilities that country would carry from 20,000,000 to- 30,000,000 sheep easily, and a great number of big stock as well.

Then Mr. Richard Murray, of the Department of Forestry, South Australia, told the Commission -

There is country to the north of the Macdonnell Ranges where I have seen grass you could mow, and that country is unoccupied. There is some fair country also in the vicinity of the Truer Ranges which is untouched at the present time.

Another piece of evidence is -

At the present time the two holdings carried about 10,500 head of cattle and 1,800 horses. On an average they sunt away about 1,500 head of fats per year; but in bad seasons they were obliged to hold them over, or soli as stores. With a railway from Oodnadatta to the Macdonnell Ranges this country would carry more stock, because necessary improvements in providing water would be possible.

According to people who know, the development of the Territory depends on railway communication; and this is what ought to first occupy the attention of the Government. My object in speaking is, if possible, to obtain a promise more definite than that given last week by the Prime Minister in Adelaide, namely, “ Leave it with us, and we will see it is done.” I wish for some definite, specific promise, for which the report of the Commission affords ample justification. It is not only South Australia that asks for this railway. The motion on which the Prime Minister gave the assurance that I have just mentioned was submitted by delegates from Tasmania, who regarded it as imperative that the Territory be developed by carrying the railway from Oodnadatta north; and certainly Tasmanians cannot be charged with taking a local or prejudiced view of the situation. The Registrar of Mines, South Australia, in his evidence before the Commission, said -

The country round Hergott did not look well; but from about the Coward northward, right to Arltunga, feed is luxuriant, and water abundant - that was when I was up in March.

According to that gentleman, had the railway been in existence during the recent drought, it would have been possible to send stock to Charlotte Springs, where feed was very abundant. The same witness further said -

When I came down in December of the same year, the country was dry in parts, and had I written my description then I might not have been so enthusiastic.

It will be seen that this witness is unquestionably expressing his genuine opinion, for he does not depend on what he saw in March. He said further -

The Macdonnell Ranges struck me as being a most wonderful place for horse breeding.

It is to bridge that strip of what is called desert country that we ask for railway extension. Of course there is an extension from Pine Creek to Katherine River, but I doubt whether that railway will afford such facilities for the development of the Territory as would an extension from Oodnadatta.

Mr Pigott:

– What distance has to be covered?

Mr YATES:

– I think between 300 and 400 miles. Mr. Henry Lewis, pastoralist, of Adelaide, said to the Commission -

I have travelled across (north and south) six times, and I consider that every mile of country between Oodnadatta and the Katherine is good country for cattle and horses. Anywhere north of Newcastle Waters would be too wet for sheep, but there is room for plenty south of that.

Mr GREGORY:

– This is not the case of one mine; but here you have a tenhead plant involving an expenditure of something like £20,000. If other districts are discovered, how many plants of this sort is it proposed to erect? I am satisfied that the House would object to the heavy expenditure the frequent erection of large plants like this would involve, particularly as a much less expensive plant costing £9,000 or £10,000 would have done all that was necessary. I think there is only 1,600 tons of ore available now, and with that large plant it would be possible to crush the district out within a couple of months. Such a large mill is not necessary, and I hope that future action by the Minister in this respect will be more in the direction of erecting small treatment plants, which will be ample for all requirements. We have done a great deal of this kind of work in Western Australia. I advocated the erection of these plants as strongly as did any member of the State Parliament, and yet, when I left office, I had serious misgivings as to the value of the work we had done. We had produced something over £4,000,000 worth of gold, the whole of which went, not into big outside companies, but into the pockets of our own people. There was, nevertheless, a doubt as to whether the working of these plants was beneficial to the mining industry. In many districts where we had small parties working, all the rich ore was crushed by men who, having done this, neglected their holdings, with the result that a very great number of them are now deserted. On the other hand, if small plants had been taken there to assist prospectors in ascertaining the value of their propositions, and in inducing others to come in with ample capital for the development of their properties, I feel sure that, instead of so many of these holdings being abandoned and the districts deserted, as they are today, we should have had big mines in full operation. If the Minister will give investors an assurance of generous mining laws; if he will give them an assurance that if they put money into a mining proposition they will be fully protected under the mining Ordinances ; if he will see that a large sum is expended on water supplies, and also enter upon a good system of light railway construction, he will do much to induce settlement and development in the Territory. The matter of the development of the north does not apply only to the Northern Territory. We have an immense coast-line, stretching from Western Australia round to Queensland, and every effort should be made by the Government of the day, not only to promote settlement, but to develop the industries we already have there. I wish to refer more particularly to the pearling industry. At present, owing to the war, it is moribund ; but I know that many honorable members of the

Labour party would sooner see that industry closed down than allow it to be carried on with alien coloured labour. The pearling industry, however, has done much to develop north-western Australia, and to open up th© resources of Western Australia itself. I do not wish to discuss the merits or demerits of coloured labour in connexion with the industry. A Royal Commission, of which I am a member, has been appointed to inquire into the matter, and I should not care te make any statement regarding a subject which, so far as I am concerned, at least, should be treated at the present time as sub judice. The Commission does not intend to hold any meeting until the war is over, and the industry is once more being actively carried on.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– Has not the sacrifice of human life been terrible in the pearling industry?

Mr GREGORY:

Parliament would be asked to provide funds for trial surveys with the object of connecting by railway Port Darwin with Port Augusta, viti Macdonnell Ranges and with the eastern railway system -

That is, the railway systems in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, and South Australia - via Camooweal -

Honorable members will see that the Liberal Government made it part of their policy to connect the railway from Pine Creek southwards to Oodnadatta, vid the Macdonnell Ranges, with Camooweal, on the western boundary of Queensland. That statement continued - which will open up the country for agricultural and pastoral settlement. Without these main lines of transit it will be impossible to complete our defences or to adequately develop the resources of the Northern Territory.

That was the policy of the late Government, and had we remained in office we fully intended to carry it out. It has been said by honorable members representing South Australia, and I think it is understood by a good many people outside, that there is in existence an undertaking by the Commonwealth to build a railway to connect Port Darwin with South Australia vid the Macdonnell Ranges and Oodnadatta - the line which the late Government proposed to build - but I submit that no undertaking of that kind was given by this Parliament or by anybody until the late Government placed that proposal in their platform. I will read the agreement into which the Commonwealth entered with South Australia when it took over the Northern Territory, and honorable members will be able to judge for themselves as to whether the Commonwealth had undertaken to’ do that which the late Government proposed to do. The Commonwealth, by its agreement with South Australia, undertook - to construct, or cause to be constructed, a railway line from Port Darwin southwards to a point on the northern boundary of .South Australia proper, which railway, with the railway from a point on the Port Augusta railway to connect therewith, is hereinafter referred to as the transcontinental railway.

Also - to construct, or cause to be constructed, as part of the transcontinental railway, a railway from a point on the Port Augusta railway to connect with the other part of the transcontinental railway at a point on the northern boundary of South Australia proper.

Sir JOHN FORREST:

– I have never said so. The honorable and learned member for Angas and myself are in agreement as to route. The method of construction was never considered between us, except that I told him that I could not make provision on the Estimates of 1913-14 for the construction of these railways. We had not then sufficient information. All we could do was to determine a policy.

Mr Glynn:

– And we also sanctioned surveys.

Mr Poynton:

– Where are those experts ?

Mr MAHON:

– The honorable member may depend on it that the Prime Minister of Australia has not proposed this strategic railway without having good advice.

Mr MAHON:

– Can the honorable member find any land for them in his own constituency? If not, what alternative has he to offer ? In conclusion, I may say that these Estimates relate to several other important matters, such as the control of Norfolk Island, the Territory of Papua, and the High Commissioner’s office; but, with the exception of the honorable member for Cook, no one has referred to them. The honorable member for Darling Downs has made some inquiries privately regarding Papuan developments in railways, oil, rubber, and general plantations, and I am glad to be able to supply the information. As the Committee is aware, the late Government projected a railway from Port Moresby to Astrolabe, anc! in respect to that line I have ascertained that the surveys had been completed, and the. work was about to be begun when the war broke out. That event created considerable uncertainty as to the future of the mines, on which the railway will depend for practically all its business. The Mount Morgan Company, which it was understood was about to exercise the option which it held to purchase the principal mine, the Laloki, declined to exercise that option. The result was that no steps ‘were taken in connexion with the construction”, and that the rails which had been ordered for Port Moresby were carried on to Brisbane, where they now are. Since that time the position has not changed until to-day, when some responsible gentleman called on the Secretary and intimated the desire to re-open negotiations on -the basis of their furnishing a guarantee of a certain amount of traffic. A.s this proposal is only now being submitted to me, there has been no time to consider it, but it might, perhaps, be stated, for the information of the House,, that the intention to complete the railway has not been definitely abandoned. The fact is that the work was suspended only because the Government found themselves in a position that whereas they might build the railway, they had no assurance that any freight would be forthcoming, on its completion, for it to carry. It might, perhaps, be added, that the wharf at Port Moresby, with which the oil fields work is intimately connected, is about to be begun. Instructions to put the work in hand have already been given.

Honorable members will be interested to hear the latest reports from the oil field, which came to hand only to-day. Work in connexion with the oil field, which had been suspended, pending consideration of Dr. Wade’s final report, has now been resumed. Dr. Wade has been appointed director of the oil fields under an engagement for two years. Three drillers have been engaged, two of whom had to be obtained from Canada. These men have arrived, and leave Sydney today. A report from Dr. Wade has just been received, indicating that work on. the field is now well in hand. He has already obtained 30 or 40 gallons of a good, clear, light oil, which he states gives better results in his oil engine than oil imported for the purpose. It has a sweet smell, and is free from sulphur. It is likely that a large sample will be sent down shortly. This light oil, in Dr. Wade’s opinion, indicates a heavier oil at a lower depth.

Mr Poynton:

– What are Dr. Wade’s qualifications ?

Mr Glynn:

– He is a man of very high standing. We made exhaustive inquiries regarding him.

Mr MAHON:

– If the honorable mem. ber will refer to the report which Dr. Wade has presented he will see for himself the various letters which he is entitled to put at the end of his name.

Mr Poynton:

– I have known a lot of mining fellows who put many letters at the end of their names.

Mr Page:

– The honorable member for Darwin has the whole alphabet after his name.

Mr MAHON:

– But I spoke of the various letters denoting academic distinctions which Dr. Wade is “ entitled ‘* to put at the end of his name. New plant has been purchased, but, owing to the rather difficult nature of the country, it is possible that further plant of a special character will have to be imported.

– I do not care what sort of proposal it is. The Australian people require fresh fish, the islanders are in need of a means of livelihood, and it is only proper that the Government should do something to assist them. Another industry which has been neglected is whaling. The islanders have to go for many miles in ordinary whale-boats in pursuit of a whale, and in some instances they have had to tow a whale behind an ordinary row-boat for two days, whereas if they were provided with a launch they could prosecute their industry with more vigour. Something might be done to encourage the industry of drying and smoking fish. The islanders know nothing of our requirements, and I think that some person of experience should be sent there to teach those people the fishcuring business, and to produce other articles which are much needed on the mainland. The Commonwealth grants a bounty of £d. per lb. on dried and smoked fish. In 1912-13 there were only five establishments engaged in this industry, and the bounty amounted to only £103 for the 49,440 lbs. produced in the Commonwealth. The importations of dried and smoked fish in .1912 totalled 26,000 cwts., worth £76,327. On this subject Knibbs says - t

The abundance of fish in Australian waters offers excellent opportunity for the institution of preserving establishments, particularly in those coastal districts which enjoy a temperate climate. Up to the present but little development has taken place, and the establishments for fish preserving at the present time are very few.

I think this industry requires only a little encouragement from the Government and it would be quickly established. The Norfolk Islanders are under a great difficulty, because of the absence of any anchorage for vessels calling there. The steamer has to anchor in the open roadstead, and the residents never know on which side of the island the steamer will stop ; its anchorage depends on the state of the wind. The steamer is able to remain at the island only a few hours, and the consequence is that as soon as the vessel comes to anchor every vehicle in the island is requisitioned in order to carry, the produce to the point of embarkation. If the residents were provided with a steam launch, it would obviate the rowing of their produce for 1 or 2 miles to the ship’s side, and the spoiling of perishable commodities by the salt water. We were treated excellently on the small steamer Mal:ambo. which carried us from the island to the mainland; but if some arrangement could be made for the steamer Levuka to make a detour of about 50 miles to the island, the people would be much better served. The small boat was overcrowded ; many passengers had to take accommodation in the smoking room, and I understand that on the last trip some men had tq sign on as members of the crew in order to secure passages. What is required is a vessel with up-to-date refrigerating accommodation, so that the perishable products of the island may be landed in good condition on the mainland. The fruit industry of Norfolk Island also presents great possibilities. Never have I tasted more luscious oranges than those grown on the island. I find that lemons.’ oranges, and other fresh fruits imported5 into Australia were valued at £217,796 , and I am sure that Norfolk Island would, be able to supply from £15,000 to £20,000 worth of fruit for the Sydney-market, if facilities were provided for bringing their produce in good order to the mainland. I have mentioned these two or three items in the hope that the Minister will do something for these islanders, who are certainly deserving of consideration.

Mr KELLY:
Wentworth

.- Honorable members on both sides of the House are very grateful to the honorable member for Calare for anticipating in> such a concise .and clear way the statement which, no doubt, we shall have in due course from the Royal Commission which recently completed a visit to Norfolk Island. I do not wish, at this late hour, to traverse the issues which have been raised by my honorable friend, or the Ministerial statement to which the Committee listened ‘this evening; but J do wish to take this the earliest opportunity, to express my profound disappointment with the attitude evidenced by the honorable member for Brisbane during the remarks of the Minister. Those of us who are innocent in our natures have always looked to. the honorable member for Brisbane as a. sort of apostle of the temperance movement; we have, hoped for great things from him. We. have heard him most desperately in earnest on the public platform; we have -seen him moving in this Chamber from victory to victory - Pyrrhic in nature, no doubt, but still victory - we have seen him abolishing the parliamentary bar, and still the bar is open; we have heard him denouncing the Minister for iniquities in the Northern Territory, and we have heard him making the rafters ring with appeals that the people there should be allowed to settle the question of liquor control by local option. To-night, in the most barefaced manner, the honorable member for Brisbane has told the House that he believes that when the vote has been taken Bung will come out triumphant. Has he been urging and compelling us to agree to the taking of a vote so that Bung may be triumphant? This is an extraordinary thing for a temperance advocate to do.

Mr West:

– Give the honorable member credit for an attempt to educate the people on the -subject.

Mr KELLY:

– The honorable member would establish the liquor trade in the Northern Territory by buttressing it withGovernment . assistance, and without inconveniencing himself politically. This is a most disappointing attitude. If there are any from whom we might expect coherence and consistency, they are the advocates of temperance. Surely we have a right to expect that the honorable members for Brisbane and Barrier will not ask Parliament to arrange for the taking of a vote which will benefit the hotel trade of Australia. I protest, with all the warmth of which I am capable, against the proposal of the honorable member for Brisbane to give the people of the Northern Territory local option on the drink question when, as he himself has confessed, the result will be to establish the liquor trade there. Is he so recreant to his temperance principles’ as to wish to entrap Parliament into consenting to a mock referendum which will benefit no one else but Bung? I hope that honorable members will no longer take as gospel everything they hear from these temperance gentlemen, but will do what they think best to bring about lasting reforms, discountenancing reforms which, though politi«ally expedient, must damage the temperance cause.

Mr Riley:

– What would the honorable member suggest?

Mr KELLY:

– My honorable friend does not wish me to outline a policy at this hour. No doubt the Temperance party throughout Australia deeply regrets the price which the honorable member for Barrier has had to pay for many of his most earnest convictions. The honorable member adorned the last Labour Ministry, in which he acted in many capacities - one rapidly succeeding another, I might add. He is not now a member of the Cabinet, and there is no member of the Cabinet to whom we can look for guidance on this question. I ask him, therefore, to get into even closer touch with the honorable member for Brisbane, and to obtain from the honorable member an explanation of his interjection that if a referendum were taken in the Northern Territory the vote would go in favour of the drink traffic. We ought to be in earnest in regard to referendum proposals. If we think that we- can achieve- some good by means of a referendum, let us urge it; but it would be to waste the public funds to hold a referendum merely for educational, purposes, if the result would show the people of the country how helpless we were in regard to the reform proposed.

Mr FINLAYSON:
Brisbane

– It is fortunate for me that I have been present during part of the speech of the honorable member for Wentworth. If one could hear that honorable member without seeing him, one would think that he meant what he said, and it would not be evident that to-night he has tried to make a farce of so serious a matter as the sobriety of the people of the Northern Territory. It is most unsatisfactory that the honorable member, notwithstanding his high abilities, which have been developed by special training, should utilize his eloquence to cast ridicule on a good cause, and to make fun of what, at the present time, is for the nations of the world one of the most serious and perplexing questions that they have to face. The honorable member continually descends from the sublime to the ridiculous, and generally ends in making himself ridiculous. I owe him an apology for a statement that I made some two years ago, under the mistake that he had received his training at Oxford. Having discovered that I am wrong, I apologize to Oxford.

Mr Kelly:

– Why does the honorable member wish for a referendum in the

Mr Webster:

– What form of reward would you suggest? .

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I do not care whether it is freehold tenure or any other form of reward; but I do say that we must hold out an adequate reward to the man who is prepared to risk his capital there. The honorable member says that the Territory is useless, and that any man prepared to put his capital in it is bound to suffer loss.

Mr Webster:

– I did not say anything of the kind.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I do not know what other interpretation could be placed on the honorable member’s attitude. He tells us the Territory is no good, and that it would be infinitely better to leave it unoccupied for all time, because we can never hope to get an adequate return from it. I say that if any one is prepared to sink his capital, risk his own enterprise, and. perhaps, a considerable part of his life, in the Northern Territory, the honorable member should be the very first to- offer him the fullest reward that we can possibly give.

Mr WEBSTER:

– Quite a number of men have already done it.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– Everything that the honorable member says in that regard is another reason for saying Chat we should give to any one who goes to the Northern Territory and takes all those risks the fullest reward that ‘lies in our power. In regard to the much-discussed scheme of railways, whilst I admit the existence of the agreement with the South Australian Government in regard to the north and south railway, it seems to me that it is a matter of no moment to the people of South Australia, from a commercial stand-point at all events, provided the Commonwealth builds a line from Oodnadatta to the Macdonnell Ranges whether, after that, the Commonwealth develops tha Territory from the railway standpoint in any other way. It must be perfectly obvious to anybody who looks at the map that, after a ‘certain point in the Territory is reached on the journey south from Darwin or on the journey north from Adelaide, there must be one point where it would be better to send produce either north or south, and if any honorable member looks at the map again, he will see that point about 50 miles north of the Macdonnell Ranges, which is about equidistant from Adelaide and Townsville. It seems to me, therefore, inasmuch as most of the good territory lies to the eastward, that it would naturally be very much better to take the produce from the portion of the Northern Territory that does not go directly north to the ports in the Northern Territory, through Queensland,, and that it would not pay in any circumstances to use the port of Adelaide. I do not believe produce from that district will ever go to Adelaide. “ Necessarily, from its geographical position, all the trade that will ultimately develop in the ranges will go south, but after that I believe most of the trade .will either go east or north, if the means of communication were similar in every respect. While we are pledged tq go on with the development of the Northern Territory with railways as being the only means that make it possible to open up the Territory, yet I think we should be fulfilling the letter and the spirit of the’ agreement with South Australia if we built the line from Oodnadatta .well into the Macdonnell Ranges, and then developed our railway policy from the north, so as to permit the settlement which I believe will ultimately take place to draw the north and south lines together. I think that will be the wisest and most economical policy, and that it will develop the Northern Territory quicker than any other. ‘My view is that the only course open for us to pursue in regard to the Northern Territory is a forward one, We cannot retract the step we have taken. Whether that step was wise or unwise is not a consideration that we can enter upon now, and we should, at all events, make a serious effort to try to turn he Northern Territory into a commercial proposition. I have great faith in that, being ultimately accomplished. It may take a good number of years, but I believe it will ultimately be done. I recognise the truth of what the Minister said a little while ago, that, whilst this great war is in progress, and that whilst necessarily the whole energies of the nation are being devoted to the fulfilment by Australia of her full share in it, it is practically impossible for us to go on with big developmental schemes; but I would suggest in the meantime that the Minister should go into this matter as fully as he possibly can, so that, when the time comes that money is available, We shall be able to start immediately upon a strong, forward, progressive policy in the development of the Territory.

Proposedvote agreed to.

Progress reported.

page 3850

ADJOURNMENT

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– I beg to move-

That the House do now adjourn.

I hope honorable members will assist me in getting these Estimates through, because we are very anxious to get them out, of the way. I am afraid we shall have to sit rather late to-morrow.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– What other work have you got ?

Mr FISHER:

– Abundance.

Question resolved is the affirmative.

House adjourned at 11.1 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 9 June 1915, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1915/19150609_reps_6_77/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

House of Representatives 9 June 1915

PAPERS

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH CONTRACT EMPLOYEES

Mr WEST:EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

LIVERPOOL MANOEUVRE AREA

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ARCHIBALD:Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr Fleming:

Mr ARCHIBALD:

QUESTION

HIGH COMMISSIONER

Mr J, H CATTS:COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MAHON:Minister for External Affairs · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr JOSEPH COOK:PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MAHON:

Mr PIGOTT:CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MAHON:

Mr PIGOTT:

Mr Hampson:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr MAHON:

QUESTION

OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Mr PIGOTT:

Mr FISHER:Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

QUESTION

COALITION GOVERNMENT

Mr HAMPSON:

Mr FISHER:ALP

Mr FLEMING:

Mr FISHER:

QUESTION

GERMAN CLUB FOR HOSPITAL

Mr KELLY:WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

QUESTION

SMALL ARMS FACTORY

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

Mr JENSEN:ALP

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

Mr JENSEN:

Sir Robert Best:

Mr GROOM:DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr JENSEN:

Sir William Irvine:

Mr JENSEN:

Mr J H CATTS:COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FISHER:ALP

Mr J H CATTS:

Mr JENSEN:

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Mr KING O’MALLEY:DARWIN, TASMANIA

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr JENSEN:ALP

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr FISHER:ALP

Mr Glynn:

Mr FISHER:

Mr FENTON:MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:

Mr CHANTER:RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENCE:Postmaster-General · DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr CHANTER:

Mr JENSEN:

Mr MASSY-GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr JENSEN:

Mr BOYD:HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:

Mr CHANTER:

Mr JENSEN:

QUESTION

TRAVELLERS IN FRANCE: PASSPORTS

Mr MASSY-GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MAHON:ALP

Mr MASSY-GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MAHON:

House of Representatives
9 June 1915

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr W ELLIOT JOHNSON:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ARCHIBALD:
Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr J, H CATTS:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MAHON:
Minister for External Affairs · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr PIGOTT:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:
Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr GROOM:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr J H CATTS:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr PARKER MOLONEY:
INDI, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr CHANTER:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENCE:
Postmaster-General · DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr BOYD:
HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MAHON:
ALP

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

Mr McWILLIAMS:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · REV TAR; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; CP from 1920; IND from 1928

Mr SAMPSON:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr PAGE:
MARANOA, QUEENSLAND

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr SHARPE:
OXLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr TUDOR:
Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr BAMFORD:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Mr GREGORY:
DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr MAHON:
ALP

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr FISHER:
ALP