House of Representatives
14 May 1915

6^th Parliament · 1^st Session

QUESTION
- PORT STEPHENS AND PORT LINCOLN NAVAL BASES
PRINTING COMMITTEE
QUESTION
- EXPEDITIONARY FORCES
QUESTION
- LETTER-CARRIERS’ AWARD
QUESTION
- DEFENCE DEPARTMENT
DUTY ON CHAFF
NORTHERN TERRITORY
QUESTION
- MEAT SUPPLY
QUESTION
- PRICE OF SUGAR
QUESTION
- KALGOORLIE-PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY
COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS
- E.1494. Melbourne, 12th May, 1915
- The Secretary,
- Department of Home Affairs
- Present Position
- Surveys
- Alleged Great Delay
- Mileage Already Ballasted
- Water Supplies
- South Australian Division
- Water Boring
- Western Australian Division
- South Australian Division
- Locomotives
- Waggons
QUESTION
- IMPORTS OF STRAWBOARDS AND LE ATHERBOARDS
QUESTION
- NEW TELEPHONE EXCHANGES
QUESTION
- TENDERS FOR DREDGERS
QUESTION
- ELECTORAL IRREGULARITIES
QUESTION
- FODDER FOR MAIL CONTRACTORS
QUESTION
- FEDERAL CAPITAL DESIGN
QUESTION
- EXPEDITIONARY FORCES
PAPERS
ENEMY CONTRACTS ANNULMENT BILL
- Second Reading
SUPPLY BILL (No. 6)
PATENTS, TRADE MARKS, AND DESIGNS BILL (No. 3)
ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Speaker took the chair at 10.30 a.m., and read prayers.

page 3167

QUESTION

PORT STEPHENS AND PORT LINCOLN NAVAL BASES

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Assistant Minister of Defence if he is aware that Admiral Henderson and many other naval experts have reported that Port Stephens is one’ of the best harbors in Australia for naval purposes. Is the Minister also aware that, because of the war, many miners in the surrounding districts are out of employment ? Under these circumstances, will the Government take into consideration the necessity of carrying out the naval works recommended for Port Stephens, so that employment may be found for these men?

Mr JENSEN:
Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

– The Government is going to send a surveyor and staff to Port Stephens to make necessary surveys, and to take soundings with a view to commencing the expenditure of £5,000, which was voted on the Estimates.

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

– Are we to understand that £5,000 was voted on last year’s Estimates for works at Port Stephens, and that a survey of the place has not yet been begun ?

Mr JENSEN:

– That is so.

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I draw the attention of the Assistant Minister to the fact that, according to Admiral Henderson, Port Lincoln is one of the finest situations in Australia for a Naval Base, and I ask the honorable gentleman whether any of the money that was voted twelve months ago for naval works there has yet been spent?

Mr JENSEN:

– No.

page 3167

PRINTING COMMITTEE

Report (No. 2) presented by Mr.

Charlton, read by the Clerk, and adopted.

page 3167

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Listof Privates Killed

Mr BOYD:
HENTY, VICTORIA

– I ask the Assistant Minister of Defence if he expects to receive a list of the privates killed in action during the engagement which took place on the landing of our troops at the Dardanelles. A list of the names of about forty officers, twenty killed, has been published, but no list of privates?

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– We are very thankful for the information that we are getting. I understand that it is impossible to furnish accurate lists immediately after’ a battle.

Mr Boyd:

– The engagement to which I refer took place twelve days ago.

Mr JENSEN:

– Those who were wounded then are being transported to hospitals in places a long way from the scene of action, and as information regarding their condition has to be obtained from the hospitals, it must take time to . acquaint us of it.

Mr Boyd:

– But is there no list of privates killed in action? “We have heard only of those who have “ died from wounds.”

Mr JENSEN:

– The Minister makes public the whole of the information supplied to him, but if the information is incomplete in regard to this matter, I think that we should cable for fuller particulars as soon as possible.

page 3167

QUESTION

LETTER-CARRIERS’ AWARD

Mr RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– When does the PostmasterGeneral intend to lay on the table the award of Mr. Justice Powers in regard to the letter-carriers?

Mr SPENCE:
Postmaster-General · DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– At a very early date.

page 3167

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Overtime

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– The honorable mem ber for New England asked the other day if the Assistant Minister of Defence would ascertain the position regarding overtime in his Department. It was pointed out that permanent hands are paid for only ten hours of overtime per week, no matter how long they may have to work, and that the temporary hands are paid in full for all overtime. Has the’ honorable gentleman made inquiries, and is he in a position to tell the House exactly how matters stand ?

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– The question iB being inquired into, and I hope to give a reply on Wednesday next.

page 3168

DUTY ON CHAFF

Mr THOMAS:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is the Minister of Trade and Customs in a position to lay on the table a resolution remitting the duty on chaff f

Mr TUDOR:
Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

– No. I have not yet prepared the resolution, but I hope to be able to do so at an early date.

page 3168

– Yes.

page 3168

QUESTION

MEAT SUPPLY

Mr HAMPSON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA

asked the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Pending the consideration of making representations to the Imperial Government regarding the supply of meat from Australia, will the Minister confer with the chief exporters of the Commonwealth so bb to insure that the consumers in Australia will’ not he unduly taxed by paying abnormal prices for meat!

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

– The answer to the honorable member’s question is as follows: -

Owing to the existence of arrangements between the Imperial Government and the State Governments with regard to purchase and shipment of meat for imperial purposes, and to the control which the State Governments are exercising over the quantities allotted for export, and over local prices, I do not think any effective result would follow the proposed conference.

page 3168

QUESTION

PRICE OF SUGAR

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Whether he will inform the House what are the prices paid for sugar in New Zealand compared with Australia and the United Kingdom, and also make a statement as to the duties, charged in New Zealand, Australia, and the United Kingdom t

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

– The answer to the honorable member’s question is: -

The price paid for household sugar in New Zealand is £20 per ton.

In Australia - New South Wales, £21 per ton; Victoria, £21 2s. 8d. per ton; Queensland, £23 per ton; South Australia, £22 per. ton; and in United Kingdom, £27 10s. per ton (according to press cable 8th May, 1915). There is no duty on sugar imported into New Zealand!

Under Commonwealth Tariff, duty on cane sugar is £6 per ton.

In United Kingdom duties are dependent on character of sugar, and range from 16s. 8d. per ton to 36s. 8d. per ton. Sugars like Australian cane sugar with average 98.91 polarization would come within the 36s. 8d. per ton charge.

page 3169

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE-PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Sir JOHN FORREST:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

When the report of the Engineer-in-Chief for Railways on the present position and the estimated future progress of the East-West Railway will be placed on the table, as promised by him on 21st April (see page 2461 of Hansard) ?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The particulars are now available, and are as follow: -

page 3169

COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS

Department of Home Affairs, 84-88 William-street,

E.1494. Melbourne, 12th May, 1915

The Secretary,

Department of Home Affairs

With reference to the following extract from Hansard, dated 21st April, 1915 : - “ Sir John Forrest asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Willhe obtain and place on the table of the House a report by the Engineer-in-Chief for Railways on the present position and the estimated future progress of this railway - especially including the cause of the alleged great delay in carrying out this work - the date when it is anticipated the rails will be all laid and the mileage already ballasted of the 450 miles of rails already laid, water supplies, &c.”

Present Position

I have to advise that the present position is as follows : -

Surveys

Western Australian Division. - The survey is complete and the route has been permanently located to 260 miles. A preliminary inspection has also been made between that point and the South Australian border. The permanent survey will proceed in advance of the platelaying, and will be continued through to Ooldea.

South Australian Division. - The survey is complete and the route has been permanently located from Port Augusta to Ooldea - 428 -miles 71. chains from Port Augusta.

Estimated Future Progress of this Railway.

It is estimated that the rails will be laid throughout towards the end of next year, although very heavy earthworks are now being approached at the South Australian end, and the rate of platelaying will thereby be considerably reduced. During the past four weeks over 46 miles of rails have been laid.

Alleged Great Delay

I am of opinion that since my appointment no delay has taken place in the construction of the line, as although the work was held up at the western end for several weeks owing to an industrial dispute, and heavy earthworks in the eastern division considerably hampered the progress, since my appointment 350 miles of track have been laid, and of this length 240 miles have been laid during the last six, and 133 during the last three months.

Mileage Already Ballasted

The original intention was that the line should not be ballasted. Some time ago, however, it was decided that the line was to be ballasted throughout, and action was taken to select suitable quarry sites, and to procure the necessary rock crushers, engines, and other plant and equipment.

Rock crushing plants are now being erected in the western division at 75 miles, and a further plant will also be erected at the 205- mile. In the eastern division rock crushing plants are being erected at the 71-mile. Other crushing plants will be erected as required.

Ballasting has been completed to the 40-mile in the South Australian division, gravel being used. A considerable quantity of gravel ballast has also been done in the western division.

Water Supplies

Western Australian Division. - Distance from Kalgoorlie, 69 miles. Karonie (late Cardonia) Reservoir with weir, approximate capacity, 7,000,000 gallons. In course of construction.

It is proposed to provide reservoirs in the vicinity of 104-mile and 132-mile, and at other points along the route, and the surveyor is now engaged locating suitable sites.

South Australian Division

Distance from Port Augusta - 52 miles - Bookaloo Reservoir, approximate capacity 6,000,000 gallons, now being lined and roofed. 94 miles - Windabout Reservoir, now being constructed, approximate capacity 5,000,000 gallons. 130 miles - Eucolo Reservoir, now being. constructed, approximate capacity 5,000,000 gallons. 323 miles - Wynbring Reservoir, to be constructed, approximate capacity 3,000,000 gallons.

It is also proposed to provide reservoirs at other suitable points along the route, and thesurveyors are now engaged locating suitablesites.

A great deal of shallow boring has been done in the eastern division as far as Tarcoola,. to provide water for the construction gangs and locomotives.

Water Boring

Two boring contractors, with full plant and equipment, have been engaged in boring_ for water in the western and eastern divisions. Bores have been sunk as follows : -

Western Australian Division

Distance from Kalgoorlie - 205 miles, 220 miles, 235 miles, 250 miles, 280 miles, 310 miles.

South Australian Division

Distance from Port Augusta- 426 miles, 438 miles, 463 miles, 493 miles.

The boring is now being continued east of the 810-mile towards the South Australian border and westward of Ooldea. “ 3. Whether the rolling-stock, viz., locomotives, carriages, and waggons, &c, is under -order and under construction ; and, if so, the quality and estimated cost of such rollingstock?”

Locomotives

I have to advise that with the locomotives now on hand, and those for which contracts have been arranged, sufficient provision has been made for building the line.

Waggons

A number of waggons are now under contract, and these will enable the work to be pushed on; but further ballast waggons will be required, and the question of obtaining these is now in hand.

Locomotives, Carriages, and Waggons for Working the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway when completed.

The question of the rolling-stock that will be required is having full consideration, and plans, &c, are now in hand. Tenders will be called to permit of the stock being in readiness when the line is ready for the through public traffic. The data is not sufficiently advanced to permit of the estimate of the cost of such rolling-stock being submitted, but up to the 30th ultimo £432,286 has been expended on Tolling stock. “ 4. The total expenditure on the railway to date ?”

The total payment from Loan Funds for the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta Railway to 19th ultimo is £3,319,737, which is inclusive of payments for locomotives, rolling-stock, also workshop machinery and equipment, the greater portion of which will remain for the working and the upkeep of the line after completion. The amount includes moneys remitted to London to provide for payments there, also the value of stores and materials on hand. (Signed) Norris G. Bell,.

Acting Commissioner and Engineer-in-Chief.

page 3170

QUESTION

IMPORTS OF STRAWBOARDS AND LE ATHERBOARDS

Mr RILEY:

asked the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Will the Minister lay on the table of the House a return showing the total weight and value of the imports into Australia during the years 1913 and 1914, of strawboards and leatherboards)

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

– The answer to the honorable member’s question is -

The information desired by the honorable member will be found on page 23 (Tariff Items 356 (k) and 256 (n)) of the “ Statistics of Imports and Excise, Etc.” recently circulated by the honorable the Minister for Trade and Customs.

It will be observed that leatherboard is included in a group with millboard, greyboard, and woodboard, and separate figures for leatherboard cannot be supplied.

Imports of leatherboard, &c, during 1913 and first six months of 1914 were - 1913- quantity not recorded, £60,395.

First six months of 1914 - quantity not recorded, £38,686.

Imports of strawboard during 1913 and first six months of 1914 were - 1913-74,593 cwt., £25.083.

First six months of 1914 - 35,879 cwt., £11,809.

page 3170

QUESTION

NEW TELEPHONE EXCHANGES

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Whether the Minister is aware that the Home Affairs Department have been requested by his Department to defer proceeding with the erection of the telephone exchanges at Ascot Vale and elsewhere?
Will the Minister use his best endeavours to have these works proceeded with in order to provide employment for men out of work?

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are: -

Yes, pending decision as to the equipment to be ordered for use in these exchanges.
These works will be proceeded with as soon as possible after the question of the equipment is settled.

page 3170

QUESTION

TENDERS FOR DREDGERS

Sir JOHN FORREST:

asked the Min ister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

Referring to his reply on 6th May - Were tenders called in England and Australia for the dredger, and was the tender of Messrs. Poole and Steel, of Sydney, the lowest; if not, what. was the amount of the lowest tender?
Was the tender of Messrs. Poole and Steel for the sum of £34,875; and, if so; what was the additional amount paid to the contractors for extras ?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Tenders were invited in Australia only for two dredgers. Two tenders were received, one from Poole and Steel and one from a representative in Australia of a British firm. A price was also quoted by the New SouthWales Government. An order for one dredger was placed with Poole and Steel, whose price was the lowest Australian quotation. The British tender was £52,000 for two dredgers, delivered under steam at Melbourne.
Yes. Certain spare gear was ordered later at a cost of £1,252.

page 3171

QUESTION

ELECTORAL IRREGULARITIES

Sir JOHN FORREST:

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

Has no inquiry whatever been made in regard to the 3,405 cases of double voting^ in connexion with the general election, 5thSep- tember, . 1914, as disclosed by the returns furnished by the electoral officers ?
If so, does he not think that this course will be likely to encourage wrong-doing in the future ?
Has no communication or inquiry whatever been made to the 3,405 electors, so that if innocent they may defend- themselves from misrepresentation ?
Would it not be easy to make inquiry in cases where a voter has voted in his subdivision, and apparently has also given an absent vote, or vice versa, and in such cases does he consider it either justifiable or politic to take no steps whatever to examine into the matter ?
Does the Minister consider that the whole of the 3,405 apparent double voting is solely due to “error or misunderstanding,” and none of it to intentional fraud?
Will he refer this matter to the Electoral Commission now sitting for report to this House ?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are - 1 to 5. As previously explained, the number of cases of duplicated marirings on the certified lists is not greater than might have been expected to have resulted from error or misunderstanding.

In the absence of some tangible evidence of wrong-doing, the persons concerned cannot properly be charged with double voting or be called upon to prove their innocence, or required to answer questions as to their action or movements on polling day.

There is nothing to prevent the Electoral Commission taking evidence in this matter.

page 3171

QUESTION

FODDER FOR MAIL CONTRACTORS

Mr CHANTER:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Whether he has yet arranged with the Government of New South Wales to supply the mail contractors of that State with fodder on the same terms and conditions as they are supplying it to farmers? 2.If not, will he press the New South Wales Government to do so in order that country mail services may not be discontinued ?

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

-The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

No. .
I am making inquiries with a view to ascertain whether anything can be done in this respect.

page 3171

QUESTION

FEDERAL CAPITAL DESIGN

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

Whether he will obtain from the Federal Capital Director of Design and Construction (Mr. Griffin) the estimated cost of the artificial lakes proposed by him in the Federal Capital area ?

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

– Yes. I have asked Mr. Griffin to supply the information desired by the honorable member, who will be duly informed on receipt, tnereof.

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

Whether he will lay upon the table of the House all papers relating to his statements in the Argus of the 7th May that -

” Mr. Griffin claims that, according to his agreement, he should be the solearbiter of what has to be done in connexion with carrying out his premiated plan for building the city ?”

“He (Mr. Griffin) also claims that he should have full liberty to retain what expert assistance he may require?”

Mr ARCHIBALD:

– I shall havemuch pleasure in allowing the honorable member who asked the question, or any other honorable member, to inspect thedepartmental files on the subject.

page 3171

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Medical Examination: Discharge of

Soldier’s Wife: Pay of Provisional. Lieutenants : Enlistment of Postal Employes: Selection of Nurses-.’ Railway Passes for Soldiers

Mr MANIFOLD:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Have medical officers been instructed tobe more strict in their examination of recruits for the Australian Imperial Force?
Have medical officers been instructed toreject those who bear any mark of an operation, even though they are physically fit?
Have medical officers received any official’ or semi-official notice that the Defence Department now has more men than it wants?

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Yes. On account of men being returned from Egypt as medically unfit, and also on receipt of cables asking for more strictness in medical examinations.
Standing Orders which were in force some time before the war do not allow men who have had certain operations to be passed as fit.
No. Medical officers were informed that there was no shortage of men, and only firstclass recruits were wanted.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Prime - Minister, upon notice -

In view of the Education Department of Victoria compelling the resignation of a -lady teacher at Toolangi, who married a soldier going to the front, will the Minister try and induce the Education Department of Victoria to abstain from dismissing any lady teacher or compelling her to resign should she marry a soldier?

Mr FISHER:
ALP

– As the question refers to a function of State Government, I can only bring the honorable member’s question under the notice of the Government concerned.

Mir. PIGOTT asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Whether provisional lieutenants with the Expeditionary Force now in training at Liverpool, New South Wales, are receiving only 5s. per diem, out of which they have to pay 3s. 6d. per day for their mess and£1 per month for a batman, and buy their own uniform?
Is it a fact also that the above-mentioned provisional lieutenants, if found smoking anything other than cigars or cigarettes or travelling railways second class, will be reprimanded ?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are-

No. The pay of a lieutenant in the Australian Imperial Force is as follows: - Prior to embarkation, 15s. per day; after embarkation, 17s. 6d. per day; with field allowance of 3s.6d. per day in each case.
No.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice-

Has he read the extract from a letter from Private Shepherd written from Cairo, and quoted in the Age newspaper of 12th May inst., under the heading “ Australian Spirit,” and is he aware that Shepherd is an employe of his Department ?
Assuming Shepherd enlisted with the consent of the Minister or of the Permanent Head of the Department, why has consent been withheld in the case of a clerk in the Accounts Branch of the General Post Office at a salary of £102 per year? -
Is it the policy of the Department to encourage enlistment?

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Yes.
Consent was withheld in the case of the clerk referred to owing to the manner in which the staff of the Accounts Branch has been depleted by officers going to the war and other causes.
Yes, as far as possible. So far 495 officers of the Department throughout the Commonwealth have been allowed to enlist, and officers have also been loaned to the Defence Department. That Department is now urging that an additional number of Accounts officers be lent, and every effort is being made by the Postal Department, to meet the request.

Mr WISE:
GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA

asked the Assistant Minister, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

How many nurses have been sent to the war since the despatch of the First Contingent in the Kyarra?
How many are now under orders to go?
How, by whom, and on what basis is the selection made?
Were all the nurses who have tendered their services interviewed before the selection was made?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Forty-six for Australian Forces; fifty for Imperial Government.
One hundred and thirty for Australian Forces; fifty for Imperial Government.
By Principal Medical Officer and Matron of Military District. Orders were that nurses were not to be chosen from one or two training schools, but that consideration was to bc given to nurses from all first-class training schools, both town and country.
The Acting Director-General of Medical Services cannot state whether this has been done or not, but does not think it practicable to do so except at great inconvenience and expense.

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Assistant Minister,, representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Whether it is a fact that railway passes, which were issued to members of the Expeditionary Forces to enable them to visit their homes prior to departure, have been stopped; if so, why?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

The issue of railway passes to members of the Australian Imperial Force, to enable them to visit their homes prior to departure, has not been stopped.

These passes are, however, only made available for use on the railways within the State in which the troops are actually being trained.

page 3172

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Papua Act -

Infirm and Destitute Natives Account -

Statement of the Transactions of the Trustees, 1913-14.

Public Service Act -

Appointment of G. F. Chilton as OfficerinCharge, Class E, Professional Division,

Wireless Telegraph Station, Port Moresby.

Promotion of H. W. Hilton as Divisional Returning Officer, 3rd Class, Clerical Division, Electoral Division of Angas, Department of Home Affairs, South Australia.

page 3173

ENEMY CONTRACTS ANNULMENT BILL

Second Reading

Debate resumed from 7th May (vide page 3007), on motion by Mr. Hughes -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

Mr WATT:
Balaclava

.- In addressing myself to the second reading of this Bill, I wish to express approval of its main purpose, which, I understand, is to eliminate the enemy from any beneficial interest in Australian contracts. Reading the measure, as I have done, somewhat more closely in the last few days, it does appear to me doubtful whether some of its provisions will effect the purpose aimed at, and particularly the last clause of tlie measure, which, on further examination, I think will be regarded as too wide and somewhat dangerous. We have had two very interesting speeches on this question from legal members of the Opposition. I hope to discuss the matter from an entirely different stand-point. Although the measure is general in character, it is clearly designed for the recovery of - the base-metal trade, and I wish to speak as a layman who has endeavoured to inform himself as to the conditions surrounding the raising, treatment, and marketing of those important products. I listened attentively to the speech of the Attorney-General, which seemed to be divided into three phases. First of all, he spoke as the chief law adviser of the Crown, and in that capacity we may leave him in the custody of the legal members of the House. Then he spoke as a law-giver with patriotic intent, seeking to free these important industries from the embarrassing grip of the enemy, and when he spoke in that capacity I think he echoed the sentiments of every member of the House. Whatever our views may be on general politics, we all desire to cancel the enemy out of these contracts in a way that will protect Australian interests, and give us future immunity. Then the AttorneyGeneral spoke as an expositor of facts relating to this industry. It is with that part of his address I propose to deal particularly, because an examination of the speech revealed an extraordinary conglomeration of fact and fancy. The facts were already known to the Empire, and particularly Australia, through the columns of the daily press for many years past. It was hard to separate the facts and the fancies because of the craftsman’s skill’ of the Minister in presenting them. I think the Attorney-General in his statement of some of the alleged facts was extremelydogmatic. I, myself, do not hold my political opinions very insecurely, nor do I voice them without emphasis, but I could not help feeling considerable envy of theAttorneyGeneral because of the way in. which he presented this part of his case. The , honorable gentleman reminded meof a saying of Sidney Smith, after readingone of Lord Macaulay’s celebrated essays, “ I wish I could be as certain of anything as Tom Macaulay appears to be about everything.” That was the view one took of the statement of the AttorneyGeneral regarding the rise and development of the base-metal industry, and itscontrol in Europe. The Attorney-General1’ said, “ This is a world-wide war, and it isbeing waged for the purpose of a world power.” Later on, he added, “ I think that that nation has committed the most fatal blunder in its whole history in entering the lists of battle when she could have achieved her whole purpose withoutrisk and with comparatively little expenditure and loss of time.” Thatappeared to be an extraordinarily mischievous and extravagant statement. That Germany, because of her progress incertain branches of commerce and production, without resorting to war with theAllies, and particularly with Great Britain, has, or could have, practically achieved commercial supremacy, is a statement that I had not expected to hear from any Australian statesman orpolitician. The Attorney-General, however, undertook to prove the statement. After reading an extract from a formerspeech he had made in this House respecting the output of certain Australian mines, and the treatment of that output abroad, he said - 1 put this forward to substantiate my statement that the position of Germany in her efforts to secure world power had reached u point when it needed no more than that she should press on in the direction she was going in order to achieve it.

And he finished with these memorablewords -

German influence is dominant throughout the many industries of Australia.

That is dealing with their own contract with the enemy -

But the Australian lawyers are not so certain, and nothing can be done without absolute certainty.

And then he goes on to say that he regrets that there should be conflict between the British and Australian lawyers. He proceeds -

It appears to us intolerable that it is not possible to establish, or even definitely ascertain from the Law Officers of the Crown, our legal position under a given contract, and on the principle of helping ourselves as far as possible we instituted an action in the Court of Chancery and obtained an injunction against ourselves to prevent our making a new contract.

Strange procedure, but that is what the company did. This came to the Special Court of Appeal, which was set up to decide questions of law regarding the effect of the law upon various clauses in various contracts. The ‘ letter goes on -

Six Judges were on the Bench, of whom five appeared to treat the case as a magnificent joke, and would not hear the appeal on the ground that we had not brought the alien enemy into Court.

The honorable gentleman, who is familiar with the law, will see that that must have been impossible, and the letter goes on to say that, after endeavouring to have their position defined by appeal to the Courts,- they appealed to the Imperial Government to give some measure of this kind.

Mr Thomas:

– I do not think that shows much patriotism on the part of the British Judges.

Mr WATT:

– I do not think British Judges are so much concerned with patriotism as with the interpretation of the British law. I made some inquiries from the “Amalgamated Zinc Company, and they tell me -

We had no contract existing immediately prior to the war with regard to lead concentrates.

Theirs are the biggest treatment works of the whole lot -

Our contract for the sale of zinc concentrates expires on 31st December, 1919.

The main interest in connexion with the Convention lately has centred on the reduction in the price of spelter to a figure below £22. This is the critical range, for when the price has been below this level for four months automatic restriction of production comes into force, provided also that the stocks of the three groups are 50,000 tons or more.

That is the object of the Zinc Convention. It is pretty well the same as that of the Lead Convention, but organized in more detail, and apparently in a more efficient way. As to its effect on trade, and particularly on Australia, first of all it is regrettable that the Germans do, as selling agents and the controlling force of the chief group, exercise the major control over this Convention and its doings; but it is strange that, although German control is so undisputed in regard to the principal group, the great bulk of our zinc concentrates do not go to Germany, but go to our own Allies - Prance and Belgium. Let me compare

Belgium and Germany. In 1913, Belgium received from us 2,792,738 cwt. of lead concentrates, while Germany received 191,602 cwt. Thus, over 2,750,000 cwt. of our lead concentrates went to Belgium to help to make the great strength of the lead industry there. In regard to zinc the position is almost relatively the same. Belgium received from us in 1913 zinc concentrates to the extent of 5,960,544 cwt., while the quantity sent to Germany was only 1,660,177 cwt.

Mr Fowler:

– Is it not merely a case of German interests being located in Belgium?

Mr WATT:

– That is the point. If we try to ascertain the facts from the leading metal journals, such as the Mining Magazine, which is published in London, and has such an important influence on the mining world universally, we see how this comes about. These treatment works are met with all through the Belgian coal area. They are practically all situated in the one spot, just as in Germany they are to be found in the coal districts of Westphalia and Silesia. Germans may not control all the works in Belgium, but they have large interests in some, and certainly in other cases they are operating plants there. But that fact does not alter the intent of my argument, which is that, although the Convention has been so largely German, our product has not been imported into Germany; on the other hand we have helped to build up a great industry for Belgium. A condition of the Zinc Corporation is that the supply of a maximum and minimum quantity is stipulated for. That is to say, the producers must supply a certain quantity of concentrates to theassociated smelters, but at the same time they can smelt their own product so long as they do not enter into competition with the Convention in the markets of Europe. There has never been a prohibition against exceeding the output of the maximum supply demanded by the Convention. Therefore, although the Convention is apparently in hostile international hands, it has never affected the output of one Australian mine. On the contrary, it has done a vast amount to help our mines. The prices obtained for spelter snow the benefit conferred upon Broken Hill interests. The Statist gives the highest and lowest prices for spelter from 1893, but I shall content myself by quoting the lowest. The range in the price of spelter through the 90’s> was -

Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.

Mr SAMPSON:
Wimmera

.- I do not intend at this stage to discuss the general merits of this Bill, for I have no doubt that in Committee many objections to it that have been pointed out by those who have made an analytical study of the measure will again be raised. We realize the stupendous industrial interests involved, and recognise, I am sure, that there should be some means of directly preserving those interests in relation more particularly to the metallurgical industry. I agree with the Attorney-General that we should endeavour if possible to place that industry on such a footing as will enable those concerned in it if necessary to help themselves. If during the interregnum of the war we are able to lay down the foundations of great industries associated with the treatment of the raw materials of our various metal industries, we shall have done a great deal in the interests of the Commonwealth, and indeed of the whole British Empire. It is not my purpose this afternoon to consider how far this Bill is calculated to meet the aspirations of the people in connexion with the important question of contracts made with enemy subjects. The question is far too intricate to be dealt with except a,t the Committee stage; but I think that the arguments that have been advanced, and the telling speeches that have been made, from the Opposition side of the House, should impel the AttorneyGeneral to consider the desirableness of laying on the table the correspondence that has taken place between the Government and the Imperial authorities. It is of the highest importance that that step should be taken. We have it on the authority of the honorable member for Angas, who delivered a most erudite speech on this measure, that 26 per cent, of the world’s trade is conducted by the British Empire. That means, probably, that we have in existence tens of thousands of contracts that require very careful consideration at this stage, as well as contracts which will involve very important considerations at the termination of the war, and when the peace terms are being discussed. In these circumstances, it seems to me that’, since the question of these contracts is indissolubly associated with the trade of the Empire, it would be well for us, if possible, to bring our legislation into conformity with that of Great Britain. We do not know how far the British Government have found it necessary, since the outbreak of war, to change their views regarding the termination of enemy contracts. The increasing intensity of the war, and the horrible brutalities of the German enemy that have been brought to light, may constitute a sufficient reason for a material change of attitude on Britain’s part. If the Government would lay on the table of the House the correspondence that has taken place between them and the Imperial authorities, and, if necessary , would enter into further negotiations’ with the Imperial Government in regard to this important matter, I think that they would be welladvised in the interests of the whole trade of the Empire. I appreciate the necessity for passing a measure of this kind. I believe it is quite necessary that the Government should have large and important powers in respect of contracts, and that they should be as elastic as possible. There is, however, a considerable difference of opinion as to the interpretation of several of the clauses of this Bill. Exception has been taken more particularly to the wording of clause 4. I do not know whether that clause stands alone, or whether it would give that wide opportunity which has been suggested for the breaking of contracts as between British subjects within the Empire. I do not think it would. The AttorneyGeneral tells us that it is necessary that he should have elastic powers to deal with contracts as a whole; but the extent to which he has discretionary powers under this Bill to deal with contracts where the evidence presented to him is conclusive, is a point concerning which we should hear more. It would probably be better to provide in the Bill for the settlement of any question in regard to the termination of a contract by an independent judicial tribunal, before the matter is presented to the Attorney-General. I presume that the honorable gentleman will not take upon himself the responsibility of deciding what is a contract within the meaning of this law; but that he will act upon recommendations made to him by a responsible body appointed for the purpose. This, however, is a phase of the question which we shall have ample opportunity in Committee to discuss. The legal and technical aspects of the Bill have been presented in a very clear and luminous way by the lawyers of the House; and, having regard to the colossal interests involved, and the magnitude of the trade concerned, I repeat that if the correspondence which has passed between the Commonwealth and the Home Government is not confidential, we should be allowed to peruse it before the Bill is passed. At the same time, I recognise that there should be no great delay in dealing with legislation of this kind. If any undue delay occurred, the metallurgical industries of the Commonwealth might be seriously prejudiced. If we take advantage of the position, we may be able to establish within the Commonwealth industries for the treatment of our metallurgical products, and so retain for ourselves a great and valuable trade, which has hitherto passed over to the Continent of Europe. But we should endeavour, first of all, to harmonize and co-ordinate our legislation with that of the Imperial Parliament. We should endeavour to bring our legislation into line with the Imperial desire, especially if that Imperial desire harmonizes with the wish, on the part of Australia, that justice shall be done to that important branch of production to which this Bill chiefly relates. I hope that we shall ascertain what is the intention of the Mother Country as regards legislation of this kind before this Bill is finally placed on the statute-book.

Mr WISE:
Gippsland

.- I rise to make a suggestion regarding the further consideration of this Bill. The whole of the trouble that has arisen in connexion with our consideration of War Bills has been in relation to the question of whether, from a legal point of view, they will achieve the purpose for which they are intended, or whether they may not do more than that at which the AttorneyGeneral aims in presenting them. These discussions have been of a purely legal character. All these War Bills are nonparty measures; if they were not, then the proposal , I am about to make would be utterly impracticable. Seeing that the whole House is at one in the desire to support the end which this measure is designed to achieve, and that the difficulty that has arisen in relation to it is one of legal phraseology, I think that a conference between the Attorney-General and one or two legal members on the other side would clear the way to a speedy passing of the measure. We have had much discussion to-day, as on a previous occasion, between the honorable member for Angas, the honorable member for Flinders, and the Attorney-General, as to whether this Bill goes too far, or does not go far enough. This Chamber, in the ordinary course of a debate, is about the most unsuitable place that could be founds for such a discussion-. In the Law Courts, many of the best arguments advanced are drawn out as the result of an interjection. But here, if the Attorney-General interjects while an honorable member is speaking, he, sooner or later, finds himself out of order. My suggestion is that the AttorneyGeneral, after redrafting certain clauses of the Bill, as I presume he will endeavour to do, should submithis draft to, say, the honorable member for Angas, and the honorable member for Flindsrs, and that, in company with the Parliamentary Draftsman, he should meet them in consultation. If they agreed upon the clauses as redrafted, then all sides would be prepared to accept their recommendation, and the time of the House would be saved. Meeting in the Ministerial room, they would be able, in half-an-hour or an hour, to discuss the whole matter infinitely better than they would be able to do here in a much longer time. If they did not reach unanimity, no time would be lost.

Mr HUGHES:
AttorneyGeneral · West Sydney · ALP

– While I freely admit that the interests involved in this Bill are of vast importance, and the questions raised by it almost endless in their ramifications, I cannot admit these to be sufficient reasons why we should not press on with the measure. I must complain, too, of the manner in which the consideration of the Bill has been approached by my honorable friends opposite. They have contented themselves in great part by pointing out the difficulties of the position. To the criticisms of the honorable member for Angas and the honorable member for Darling Downs, who dealt with the legal position, I take no exception. They pointed out, as they were freely entitled to do, and as I had myself previously admitted, that the situation is one which, itself without precedent, leaves us, in the matter of remedies, without a guide. But apart from their speeches there has been no attempt by the Opposition to deal with this measure on its merits. Honorable members opposite have done no more than point out that it may do injury in quarters where it is not desired, and may involve consequences which the House does not even contemplate, let alone desire. I freely admit that no one can say just where, in this pool of industry and commerce, the ripples of this measure will exhaust them- selves. But surely, in such circumstances as the present, we have a right to something more than mere destructive criticism. What is the alternative to this Bill ? I do not pretend the measure is perfect; but is that a reason why we should do nothing at all? Do honorable members not realize that the present position in which traders and commercial men find themselves is intolerable? They have a right to know where they stand, whether they are bound by legal fetters to the alien enemy, or whether they are free to enter into fresh contracts, the benefits of which will go to the Empire and its Allies, and not to those who seek our destruction.

I do not intend to traverse in detail the statements made by the honorable member for Balaclava. I had hoped to have the opportunity of quietly perusing his speech, so that I might be in a position to deal in detail with his statement of the position of Australian industries generally, and of the metal trade in particular; but this, owing to the extraordinary collapse of the debate, has been impossible. Honorable members opposite cannot wonder that I should complain of their treatment of this Bill. They pleaded for time to consider it; it was given them ; they asked for still more time and it was conceded; and now, after the amplest .time for mature deliberation, we find their arguments exhausted after a couple of batteries have been fired, and a few scattered shells from the honorable member for Wimmera. I should have thought that on a measure of this sort we would have had the benefit of the views of every member of the Opposition. It admittedly deals with matters of vital interest. There is no man in Australia who is not concerned in its proposals, there is no suspicion of party taint about it - in the very nature of it there cannot be. Why then has the Bill been approached in this manner? Why these attempts to shelve it?

The honorable member for Flinders claims that it is not a war measure, but I say it is a war measure. It arises out of the war. It is a direct consequence of the war, and its effects will bear directly upon the cause for which we are fighting.

Now, directing myself to the arguments put forward by the two honorable members who have occupied the greater part of the debate to-day, and first of all to the statement made by the honorable member for Balaclava as to the extent to which Germany influences Australian trade, and in particular the metal trade, I desire to say that, although from the very nature of this matter one is denied that sure and stable foundation which statistics afford, so far as one is able to ascertain through all the sources available to the Government the statement I made when moving the second reading of the Bill must stand. I freely admit that there are many industries in Australia in which the influence of Germany is negligible, but those are industries which practically preclude the exercise of such influence. It is when we turn to industries which it is highly important should be carried to their ultimate point of development in Australia; that is to say, when we turn from industries in which the crude raw material is directly available for consumption, such as meat, wheat, and coal, to industries, where further treatment is necessary before the material reaches its ultimate marketable form, we find German influence prevailing. Turning to the metal trade, which is the principal reason for the introduction of this legislation at the present juncture, I repeat that the position is just as I stated it when moving the second reading. To all intents and purposes the control by German influences over the Australian zinc, lead, and copper is or was prior to the war complete. I do not assert that German influence covered every ounce of metal exported, but that the influence over the greater part of the trade is or was sufficient to determine for all practical purposes the price, output, and manner of distribution of the whole. Unfortunately, I have been unable to ascertain, in detail, the information which I was desirous of placing before honorable members in answer to the statements made this morning by the honorable’ member for Balaclava. However, I shall give what information I possess, and when the House meets again I shall endeavour to supplement it with such details as are now lacking. The honorable member for Balaclava referred us to documentary evidence placed at his disposal by certain companies, and endeavoured to create the impression that German influence, although existing, did not cover, the greater part of the output of zinc, lead, and copper. I much regret that an opportunity of looking carefully through the statements made by the honorable member has not been afforded me. But so far as I have been able to gather, from the information available, the position remains as stated in moving the second reading, which I again reiterate, namely, that control by German influence is complete, and covers zinc and lead, and, to a large extent, copper. I am not compelled to disclose the sources of my information, but I may say that they are mainly official, and I have no doubt as to their reliability.

Now let us take these metals, zinc, lead, and copper, in turn and examine how far these are controlled by German influence. With the exception of a small quantity of zinc concentrates distilled at Port Pirie, and a small tonnage in England - through Gibbs, Bright, I think - the whole of the Australian output was in the hands of the “ trio,” the Metallgesellschaft, Beer Sondheimer, and Hirsch and Sohn. That was the position so far as zinc was concerned before the war, and it shows that over zinc German control was complete; the amount not under German control was a negligible quantity. It may be pointed out in this relation that as zinc concentrates contain 8 to 10 per cent, of lead, consequently the control of zinc concentrates affects the control of lead and also silver to the extent that such metals were recovered from the concentrates. In regard to lead, the position was that the whole of the output from the Broken Hill refineries prior to the war, with the exception of that sold in the Commonwealth and the East, was disposed of through Merton and Company, who were exclusive selling agents for lead concentrates, and who also dealt in lead aE buyers and sellers. I desire to drawspecial attention to this extraordinary arrangement made with Mertons. The usual arrangement with a selling agent precludes his going on the market on his own behalf ; but in this case the right was expressly reserved to Mertons, so that they could manipulate it in their own interests, and in those of the parties to the Lead Convention. They were thus in a position to nullify competition, and hide the real state of the market. They were also allowed to buy from the producing parties on their own account, provided that the lead so purchased came within the pool of the Convention. Some of the Broken Hill companies sold their lead concentrates for treatment in Europe. The buyers were the Australian Metal Company - that is the Metallgesellschaft - Beer Sondheimer and Company, Hirsch and Sohn, and Brandeis Goldschmidt. The Sulphide Corporation treated portion of its lead concentrates at Cockle Creek, shipping lead in bullion to England for refining. Some of the English lead refiners are closely associated with the Lead Convention. The Sulphide Corporation also sold portion of its lead concentrates to the beforementioned German firms. The lead, silver and zinc ores of Tasmania were in the hands of the German smelting companies. For years the Tasmanian Smelting Company was managed by the Australian Metal Company, and its largest shareholder was the Deutsche Bank. Broadly, then, the position in regard to lead was that the Lead Convention to which Mertons and the Metallgesellschaft and the Broken Hill Proprietary were parties fixed the price of lead, and so determined output, and Mertons was the exclusive selling agent for the Convention, and manipulated the market so that lead outside the Convention was controlled just as effectively as that inside, and controlled by and in the interests of Germans.

With regard to copper, the position before the war was this : The Mount Morgan Company had its copper refined by the Electrolytic Company, onethird of whose shares are owned by Aaron Hirsch, and the whole of the copper production of the Mount Morgan Company was sold through the exclusive agency of Aaron Hirsch. If that does not mean the complete control by German capital and influence of the copper production of the Mount Morgan mine, I should like to know what would. The Wallaroo and Moonta Mining Companies were in a similar position. They were and are tied to Messrs. Hirsch and Company, who are exclusive selling agents for the products of the mines. The Mount Lyell blister copper was formerly refined by the American Electrolytic Refineries, daughter companies of Metallgesellschaft, which are represented here by the Australian Metal

Company, but latterly the company contracted for refining by the Electrolytic Company. Messrs. Aaron Hirsch and Company, either by purchase or agency, controlled the Mount Lyell copper at the outbreak of war. The Hampden mine, at Cloncurry, had a contract for its output of blister copper with Brandeis, Goldschmidt, and Company, London, a company naturalized in England, but holding some interests in metallurgical works on the Continent. Its business ramifications are not quite clear. The Chillagoe Company contracted with the Australian Metal Company, which is its exclusive metal agent, for its total output of metals. The blister copper is sent to America for refining to one of the refineries controlled by Metallgesellschaft, or a daughter company. The Chillagoe Company also produces a bullion of lead, silver, and gold, and this, too, comes within the exclusive selling agency of the Australian Metal Company, and is refined in England by one of the subsidiary or friendly companies of the Merton group. Here, then, are details necessarily incomplete, but amply sufficient to support the statement made by me that German influence practically controlled price, output, and distribution of the base-metal industry of Australia. But if further evidence be called for it is readily available. One case out of many may be given by way of illustration. When the Government, in pursuance of its policy to encourage Australian enterprise and to establish new industries, made efforts to establish the manufacture of copper wire, sheet and tube within the Commonwealth, the only firm able and willing to undertake this great enterprise was one in which Aaron Hirsch held a third of the shares. I do not complain about the action of the company in this matter; we do not say that the Electrolytic Company is not as eager to shake itself free of Aaron Hirsch as we are eager to assist it to do so. But I do say that the fact that there is no company in Australia capable or willing to go on with this work except a company in which one-third of the interest is held by a great German company, which not only holds at least one-third of the shares in the Electrolytic Company, but which was, prior to the war, the exclusive selling agent of the whole of the refined product, shows how complete the German grip of the Australian metal industry was. Yet we are asked to approach this matter in fear and trembling, as though we were treading on holy ground. We are warned that we must be careful lest we do some irreparable wrong to these honorable men, and to the marvellous and intricate structure which they have built up by years of patient labour. We must not deal abruptly with these German gentlemen to whom we owe so much. To Aaron Hirsch this Government must say, “ Will you please establish a copper refining industry in Australia; will you manufacture copper here for us?” What a position for this Government and for this Commonwealth ! What depths of abject humiliation ! Yet we are told we must be careful what we do.

Mr Watt:

– Does the Attorney-General know that the Mount Morgan copper is all refined ?

Mr HUGHES:

– Yes. I have been speaking of the manufacture of the copper of commerce, the metallic product which finds its way on to the market as cables, wire, sheets, tubes, and in other forms. I am aware that copper is refined here. It is not with the refining process that we propose to deal, but with the further expansion and development of the industry, so that Australia, instead of importing annually nearly £750,000 worth of copper products made from metal which she lias exported, shall manufacture them here. The Mount Morgan Company does refine its own copper, that is, Aaron Hirsch refines it for the company; at any rate, he” found one-third of the capital which provides for its refining. What is more to the point is that he is, or was before the war, the exclusive selling agent for every ounce of the Mount Morgan Company.

I do not know how such a position appeals to honorable members; to me it seems profoundly humiliating to our racialpride and to our spirit of national enterprise. It certainly ought not to be tolerated for a day longer than we can help. I come now to the argument of the honorable member for Flinders, which I regret I did not hear at length. The honorable member dealt’ with the measure from another stand-point. He contrived to create in the minds of members a feeling of apprehension of the effects of this Bill. The manner in which he proceeded was characteristic of him j it was done by suggestion rather than by a plain statement of facts. We were led to believe that the measure would prevent a banker, with whom money had been deposited at call, from paying that money on demand. Various other difficulties were put forward as likely to result from the passing of the measure. The Australian Metal Company was frankly admitted to be a company which, for all practical purposes, is German. That admission was unavoidable, because I had taken the precaution to read the sharelist. But so far as I heard the honorable gentleman’s argument it turned on the position of the Australian Metal Company if this Bill became law. No doubt the interests of this company are seriously affected by this measure. But what of that? This Parliament does not exist for the purpose of fostering, at this particular juncture, the private interests of the Australian Metal Company, nor is it to be perverted by any effort of the honorable and learned gentleman to that end. The Australian Metal Company is, for all practical purposes, the Metallgesellschaft of Germany. Every transaction on which it makes a profit gives a profit to the great German company of which it is an offshoot, yet we are warned to be careful of the consequences of this Bill. The honorable and learned gentleman said that we should legislate in such a manner as would suspend the operations of this company and all others of the same kind during the war, but that we should not go further. We should not break the bonds that tie the commerce and industry of this country to the alien enemy. That would be very wrong, according to the honorable member. Everything should be done in a gentlemanly manner; there should be nothing rude or abrupt about our treatment of these dear friends of ours. We should suspend operations, and, when the war was over, should hand to our German kinsmen and brothers across the sea the profit made fey the companies in which their capital is invested during the war. That is the suggestion of the honorable member put shortly. I am not in favour of it. I am, on the contrary, irrevocably opposed to such a proposal. If the honorable and learned member desires to give effect to it, let him move an amendment in the Bill to test the feeling of the House. We are under no moral or legal obligation to help our enemies during the war. The principle upon which British Parliaments have always acted, and upon which I hope Great Britain and its Dependencies will continue to act, is that there must be no expropriation of private property under the cloak of international complications. But i’t is another thing altogether to keep open channels through which German trade may run in this country, to clear the way for Germany to make profits in Australia during the war, to be paid over to her when the war has ceased. We are certainly under no moral or legal obligation to do that; indeed, it is our bounden and sacred duty to prevent it being done. We propose to take such action as will prevent the Australian Metal Company, or any other company of that kind, from trading at all during the war.

The honorable member seemed to be under a misapprehension as. to the scope of this Bill. He seemed to be under the impression that one of the effects of the Bill would be that, where there had been part performance of a contract, and goods had been delivered on which money was owing, or money had been paid for goods not delivered, the obligation to pay or to deliver would be cancelled. That is not so. Where money has been paid in respect of goods, or where goods have been delivered in respect of a promise to pay money, the Bill will not cancel the obligation to deliver the goods or pay for them, as the case may be. We deal, not with that part of the contract already performed, but with that part which cannot, from its very nature, be performed now, or which, being performed, would benefit the alien enemy.

Mr Glynn:

– I think that what the honorable and learned member for Flinders said was that the Bill, as it stands, would prevent a banker from paying over money deposited by the Metal Company.

Mr HUGHES:

– In my opinion, it will do nothing of the sort. Under what clause will it do so?

Mr Glynn:

– I have not said that it will do that.

Mr HUGHES:

– I think that the honorable member for Flinders stands alone in his contention. The Bill is not intended to do any such thing, and, if it can be shown that it would do so, it will be amended. The purpose of this Bill is not to steal any man’s property, whether he be enemy or friend. Its object is to prevent the enemy cutting our industrial throats, by annulling contracts already suspended by the war, and those contracts which hamper Australians desirous of finding fresh opportunities in other fields for the prosecution of their business. In my opinion, the obligation relating to acts already done under contract, such as to pay for goods already delivered, or to deliver goods already paid for, still remains, and if it does not an amendment can be made so that it will do so.

I will now leave the metal industry for a moment, and turn to a class of contract to which I particularly direct the attention of the House, because it is typical of contracts covering a very wide field. They are, in fact, the ordinary contracts of commerce. I may not mention the name, but I have here a contract note by which an Australian firm has bound itself to take a certain quantity of enemy goods. Of course, this contract is suspended during the war, but at the termination of the war its obligations and benefits may revive. Hundreds of traders are in a similar position, and if we do not pass legislation, the result will be that at the termination of the war this country may be flooded with German goods. I put that to honorable members as a plain statement of fact from which there is no escape. There are literally hundreds of persons in this country who are bound by contracts of this sort, small when looked at individually, but covering in the aggregate a tremendous sum of money. I may remind honorable members that the export and import trade between Australia and Germany was nearly £15,000,000 in 1913, and the greater portion of it was covered by contracts of one sort or another. These contracts are now suspended, but at the termination of the war the obligations will, in many cases, revive, and unless we take precautionary steps now, instead of being able to create during the interval new channels along which will flow to us the goods we require, and along which we can send our own goods to Great Britain and to her Allies, we shall, after a season of barren inactivity, be overwhelmed by an inundation of enemy goods, swamping not only our good intentions and the possibility of giving effect to them, but giving to those who have vowed our de.struction the fruits of our enterprise and industry. This Bill annuls such contracts, and sets the Australian trader free, and every man who wishes to act patriotically, not only to Britain, but also to Australia, will be at liberty to do so. He will be able to find in England and in the countries of our Allies new fields for trade ; in fact, the whole world will be open to him except only Germany and her Allies.

It was said this morning that we were forcing this legislation on a community, who did not desire it. That statement is not in accordance with facts. We have been unable, at short notice, to obtain from representative men what the mercantile community think of this measure, but we must assume that it has their support. The intention of the Government to introduce such a Bill has long been known : it has now been public property for over a week, and not one Chamber of Commerce, or representative body, or firm’ of standing has ventured to express an opinion hostile to it. If the commercial interests of Australia were menaced by this Bill, should we not have heard a violent outcry against the measure ? In the absence of any Such outcry, are we not’ to assume Australian traders and the community generally welcome the Bill? The honorable member for Balaclava, speaking in regard to the Zinc Corporation, read portion of a letter which had been sent to the Secretary of State for the Colonies. I am not in a position to read the whole of the letter, because I have not the authority to do so, but it strongly supports the purpose of this Bill. I am sorry that the honorable member did not read the whole letter, because it shows how seriously the present position affects employment in Australia. The Zinc Corporation, like many other companies, desires to know where it stands, in order that it may be able to decide whether to extend its operations or contract them. In a recent letter they say -

Lead Concentrates. - Our contract is with’ the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited. Our concentrates were smelted by them at their Port Pirie works. The contract, which expires at the end of this year, was suspended by them upon the outbreak of war, and we have since been sending lead concentrates to them under another arrangement.

Zinc Concentrates. - Our contract is with’ Aaron Hirsch and Sohn, Halberstadt, Germany, and was suspended by their Australian representative on the outbreak of war. The contract does not expire until the end of 1919.

As you have no doubt gathered from the press, the directors of this company in London ire anxious that the contract should be abrogated, and have been trying their utmost in England to get the contract annulled there, but so far without success. We enclose, for your information, copy of letter addressed by our chairman of directors (Mr. F. A. Govett) bo the Secretary of State for Colonies, dated 11th January, 1915.

We are at present watching with much interest the fate of the Bill introduced into the House of Representatives here, as if carried it may greatly help our cause in England.

And a letter from the British Broken Hill Company says - . . This company has contract with a German firm for the sale of their output of both lead and zinc concentrates. The terms of the contract are - lead concentrates from 1st July, 1913, to 31st December, 1917; zinc concentrates from 1st July, 1910, to 31st December, 1917.

The directors of the company in London have for some time past been endeavouring to get these contracts abrogated, but so far without success.

The Board in Adelaide are much interested in the Bill which has been introduced by the Attorney-General into the House of Representatives here, with the object of providing the means for the cancellation of such contracts, and we trust this Bill will be passed.

Honorable members will see that that company desires to have the contract annulled. Another letter from the North Broken Hill Company sets out that -

If you are in a position to give any further information I shall be glad to know whether it is intended that contracts between the Broken Mill companies and companies registered in England or here, but carried on in German interests, are also to be annulled, and whether provision will be made to protect companies who have claims against buyers in respect to concentrates delivered prior to the war, but not yet finally paid for. I would instance the fact that the North Broken Hill Company’s contract, terminated on the 31st December last; but it is contended that there is a right to the buyers to pick up the contract for a period of five months, i.e., the period for which it was suspended owing to the war. This the North Broken Hill Company intends to contest in every possible way, and as far as it is concerned, the buyers will have to enforce their rights (if any) at law.

Correspondence upon the contractual relations between the Australian Metal Company and the Broken Hill Proprietary Company, and the absolutely hopeless uncertainty in regard thereto, may be quoted. On the 3rd August, that was before the war broke out between England and Germany, but after the war had broken out between Germany and Russia, the Australian Metal Company sent to the Broken Hill Proprietary Company the following letter: -

We deeply regret to advise you that, owing to the outbreak of war, we are compelled to suspend our present contract.

On the 19th March, after much correspondence, the Broken Hill Company called upon the Metal Company to carry out without further delay its obligations under the contract. This the Metal Company refused to do, saying that after the war, however, they would be prepared to do so, and adding -

Meanwhile we may say that we do not intend in any way to repudiate the abovementioned contract.

On the 23rd March the Broken Hil’ Proprietary Company said -

We hereby formally rescind the contract, and will hold the company liable for all loss and damages in consequence of the refusal of the Australian Metal Company to carry out its contract.

The Broken Hill Proprietary Company have rescinded the contract, but what does their notice to rescind amount to legally? It is extremely difficult to say. It is probable that the Australian Metal Company, after the war, would be able to successfully maintain an action for damages for breach of contract against the Broken Hill Proprietary Company. Legally, both companies are British, and the contract between the two, although suspended by the war, is not avoided.

I come now to certain misconceptions regarding the scope of this Bill. It does not deal with all contracts. It deals only with contracts with enemy subjects, or in favour of enemy subjects, or enemy trade, and with contracts now suspended by the war. But as contracts with the enemy are also suspended or avoided by the war, it follows that with few, if any, exceptions, the scope of the Bill is confined to contracts already suspended by the war, or by the terms of the contract. Many of these are avoided; but there is great uncertainty on this point, and this uncertainty paralyzes enterprise. That being the case, and it being necessary that every man should know where he stands, whether he is bound or free, and be given every opportunity and inducement to create new channels, to divert trade for the benefit of the Empire, the Commonwealth, and the Allies, such a measure as this is not only justified, but necessary.Why should we hesitate to do that which is absolutely necessary? I say nothing about the position taken up by those who say that, until the British Parliament legislates in this direction, we ought not to act. But why should we not act? It is not for us to advise, or even suggest to the British Parliament what it is proper that they should do in regard to their own trade relations with Germany. We have asked them to pass complementary legislation in regard to Australian contracts, so that an action for breach of contract made in regard thereto can be defended successfully in the British Courts. That is as far as we have gone. It is for Great Britain to determine what she thinks proper to do in regard to the tremendous interests involved in British and German trade. Our business is to consider our own position, and I take it that we are not only justified, but bound to do so.

I have endeavoured to show the extreme importance of shaking ourselves free of that enemy influence. which dominates the metal industry. I have shown in respect of copper that we are hampered by German influence at the very outset of our effort to establish new industries. The fact must be faced that until this control by German influence is removed, we are fettered in our efforts to establish new industries, and to develop old ones. The fact must be faced that after the war, unless we act, and act promptly, Germany will not only regain her old dominance of the metal industry, but will gather to herself that trade which, before the war, went to Belgium and Northern France. Belgium prior to the war was a hive of manufacturing industries. She engaged largely in the manufacture of zinc. To-day she is an industrial ruin. Many of her factories now are razed to the ground. The German car of Juggernaut has gone over Belgium and Northern France, and will leave that part of Europe at the end of the war as bare of the means of industrial enterprise as the most drought-stricken part of Australia. There will not be one stone resting upon another. The men who through generations have been building up the industries of Belgium and Northern France will have to set themselves to the colossal task of rebuilding factories, and creating order out of chaos. And while they are engaged in this tremendous task, to Germany will go the work that formerly went to them. If we do not now divert from Germany the supplies of zinc concentrates it will be ‘to her alone that the whole volume of the zinc trade will flow at the end of the war, not for the benefit of our Allies, but for the benefit of Germany only. I therefore ask that we may completely sever the industrial ties that bind us to Germany. How humiliating is our present position I How incompatible with that complete control which we boast that we exercise over this country that the number of miners at Broken Hill should be determined, not by this Parliament, or even by the employers, of Australia, but by some Aaron Hirsch, or Metallgesellschaft, at Frankfort-on-Main. Such’ a state of things is an intolerable ‘ insult to the national pride of this country. I commend the measure to the Chamber with confidence. I believe it to be necessary, and amply justified by the circumstances of the times.

While I shall be ready to consider any proposals to make the measure more effective, I hope that it will receive the indorsement of the Chamber without delay.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee:

Clause 1 agreed to.

Progress reported.

page 3201

SUPPLY BILL (No. 6)

Assent reported.

page 3201

PATENTS, TRADE MARKS, AND DESIGNS BILL (No. 3)

Bill returned from the Senate without amendment.

page 3201

ADJOURNMENT

Progress of Business: Administration ofPapua.

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · ALP

– I move -

That the House do now adjourn.

I shall have to ask honorable members to make arrangements to meet on an additional day during the week, and to sit a little later each night, in view of the fact that business is becoming congested.

Mr GLYNN:
Angas

.- I do not see that there is really any justification for such a step, because it must be admitted that there has been no undue talking, undue delay, or dilatoriness of any kind. Sorre of the war Bills were passed on the day they were presented.

Mr Fisher:

– We have dealt with nothing but the war Bills.

Mr GLYNN:

– If the Prime Minister considers the’ percentage of the Bills we have passed’ since we met, I am sure he must confess’ that there -has been every expedition shown.

Mr Fisher:

– I am not complaining on that score.

Mr GLYNN:

– I can assure the right honorable gentleman that honorable members on this side are anxious to do everything to expedite business, and have considered the best steps to take to that end.

Mr Fisher:

– We must get the Estimates through.

Mr GLYNN:

– There have been very few chances as yet to consider the. Estimates. I am sure that the business is conducted here with as much celerity as is displayed in any other Parliament.

Mr KELLY:
Wentworth

.- Last night the Prime Minister objected to some criticism of mine, on the ground that I was attacking a particular officer of the Administration in New Guinea. I have since had an opportunity to look through my Hansard proofs; and, by way of personal explanation, I should like to say that I cannot find any mention of the name or office of the head of the Administration in the Possession. I do find, however, that, in the course of my remarks, when I was challenged by the honorable member for Fawkner, I said that, if anybody was responsible for the administration, it was naturally the Minister in charge of the Department of External Affairs. I have handed the Hansard proof to the Prime Minister, in order that he may satisfy himself that his strictures were hardly called for under the circumstances.

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister and Treasurer · Wide Bay · ALP

– 1 am always glad to hear explanations such as that now made by the honorable member for Wentworth. I gathered from his speech that there was a reflection on the Administrator-

Mr Kelly:

– I said that the administration was under the control of the Minister.

Mr FISHER:

– The administration cannot be dissociated from the actual Administrator in Papua. In any case, it is enough to say that there is no reflection on any officers in connexion with the administration.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Houso adjourned at 3.27 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 14 May 1915, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1915/19150514_reps_6_76/>.

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House of Representatives14 May 1915

QUESTION

PORT STEPHENS AND PORT LINCOLN NAVAL BASES

Mr CHARLTON:HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

Mr WATKINS:NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

Mr JENSEN:

Mr POYNTON:GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr JENSEN:

PRINTING COMMITTEE

QUESTION

EXPEDITIONARY FORCES

Mr BOYD:HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:ALP

Mr Boyd:

Mr JENSEN:

Mr Boyd:

Mr JENSEN:

QUESTION

LETTER-CARRIERS’ AWARD

Mr RILEY:SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENCE:Postmaster-General · DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Mr MASSY-GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr JENSEN:ALP

DUTY ON CHAFF

Mr THOMAS:BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr TUDOR:Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

NORTHERN TERRITORY

Mr PAGE:MARANOA, QUEENSLAND

Mr Fleming:

Mr PAGE:

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr PAGE:

Mr FISHER:Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr FISHER:

Mr Page:

Mr FISHER:

QUESTION

MEAT SUPPLY

Mr HAMPSON:BENDIGO, VICTORIA

Mr TUDOR:ALP

QUESTION

PRICE OF SUGAR

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr TUDOR:ALP

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE-PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Sir JOHN FORREST:SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr ARCHIBALD:Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS

E.1494. Melbourne, 12th May, 1915

The Secretary,

Department of Home Affairs

Present Position

Surveys

Alleged Great Delay

Mileage Already Ballasted

Water Supplies

South Australian Division

Water Boring

Western Australian Division

South Australian Division

Locomotives

Waggons

QUESTION

IMPORTS OF STRAWBOARDS AND LE ATHERBOARDS

Mr RILEY:

Mr TUDOR:ALP

QUESTION

NEW TELEPHONE EXCHANGES

Mr FENTON:MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr SPENCE:ALP

QUESTION

TENDERS FOR DREDGERS

Sir JOHN FORREST:

House of Representatives
14 May 1915

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:
Assistant Minister · BASS, TASMANIA · ALP

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr BOYD:
HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENCE:
Postmaster-General · DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Mr THOMAS:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr TUDOR:
Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr PAGE:
MARANOA, QUEENSLAND

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr FISHER:
Prime Minister · WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

Mr HAMPSON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Sir JOHN FORREST:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr ARCHIBALD:
Minister for Home Affairs · HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

Mr CHANTER:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr ARCHIBALD:
ALP

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MANIFOLD:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:
ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr FISHER:
ALP

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr SPENCE:
ALP

Mr WISE:
GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:
Balaclava