View PDF View XML View in Voyant

Senate
28 November 1944

17^th Parliament · 2^nd Session

UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND REHABILITATION ADMINISTRATION BILL 1944
QUESTION
- WHEAT INDUSTRY
QUESTION
- BROADCASTING
CIVIL AVIATION
- Service to Tasmania
QUESTION
- RAIL TRAVEL PRIORITIES
QUESTION
- APPLES AND PEARS
QUESTION
- FLAX
COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS
QUESTION
- ALLIED WORKS COUNCIL
QUESTION
- PIG MEAT
QUESTION
- DIVISION OF IMPORT PROCUREMENT
QUESTION
- TEA RATIONING
QUESTION
- SYDNEY TURF CLUB
QUESTION
- SECOND VICTORY LOAN
QUESTION
- RELEASE OF INTERNEES
QUESTION
- MALARIA
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN ARMY
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR
QUESTION
- SERVICE PENSIONS
UNITED NATIONSFOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION BILL 1944
- Second Reading
ADJOURNMENT
- Allied Works Council: Butlers Gorge Works - Patent Medicines - Western Australian Shipping Service
PAPERS

The President (Senator the Hon. Gordon Brown) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 2164

UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND REHABILITATION ADMINISTRATION BILL 1944

Assent reported.

page 2164

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Senator GIBSON:
VICTORIA

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture clarify the answer which he gave to a question asked by me last week that growers of wheat would be permitted to plant to the fullest extent, subject only to the need to maintain the production of other essential crops ? Will the Minister state whether that implies that a wheat-grower has still to obtain a licence to grow wheat, and that a man with land suitable for wheat-growing without superphosphate is completely barred from growing a crop unless in possession of a licence? Does the Minister consider that those restrictions permit growing to the fullest extent?

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– In view of the point previously raised by the honorable senator, I have obtained further information on the matter. The position is that a grower will have to obtain a licence in the ordinary way, and in issuing the licences it will be necessary to prevent growers from changing over to wheat to the detriment of other essential crops.

page 2164

QUESTION

BROADCASTING

Station 2HD Newcastle.

Senator SAMPSON:
TASMANIA

– Will the Post master-General inform the Senate whether the New South Wales Branch of the Returned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen’s Imperial League of Australia has made representations for a broadcasting licence? Was the Minister approached by that branch for the allocation to it of the licence of station 2HD? Did the Minister give consideration to those representations, and, if so, is he favorably disposed to granting that licence to the

New South Wales branch of the league? If that body can secure the assets of any radio station, in view of the league’s educational, social and rehabilitation activities, would the PostmasterGeneral grant the transfer to the branch of the licence of a station now operating?

Senator ASHLEY:
Postmaster-General · NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I have received a communication from the New South Wales branch of the league, containing the same questions as those directed to meby the honorable senator. The answer to the four points raised are: The New South Wales branch of the league did make representations to me for a broadcasting licence, and I was approached by it for the allocation to it of the licence of station 2HD. I gave considerationto the representations made. The position with regard to the application was fully explained to representatives of the branch when I met them as a deputation in Sydney. In the event of thebranch acquiring the assets of any radio station, an application for transfer of the licence to the branch would receive the fullest consideration in the light of the circumstances.

page 2165

CIVIL AVIATION

Service to Tasmania

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I shall see if effect can be given to the honorable senator’s request at an early date.

page 2165

COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS

Appointment of Secretary - High Court Decision - Telegram from Minister for the Interior - Formal Motion for Adjournment.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon Gordon Brown:
QUEENSLAND

– I have received from Senator Leckie an intimation that he desires to move the adjournment of the Senate for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, “ The action of a Minister of the Crown in attempting, by threat, to influence the evidence to be given by an officer of his department as a witness in a court of justice “.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

.- I move -

That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn to to-morrow, at 9 a.m.

The PRESIDENT:

– Is the motion supported ?

Four honorable senators having risen

Senator Ashley:

– I again rise reluctantly to order on this subject. In the judgment given last week in the case Watson v. Collings, Mr. Justice Rich said -

No court can allow to pass without observation an act calculated to affect the testimony of a witness, or to embarrass him in giving evidence. Although in the result the transmission of the latter docs not appear to have influenced Mr. Gahan to disregard his duty as a witness, as he gave his evidence freely, independently and candidly, it is necessary to say that it is against the law for .any person who has any authority or means of influence over a witness to use it- for the purpose of affecting his evidence. And it is competent for this court, in cases where other remedies appear inadequate or unavailing to proceed on its own motion by calling on the party concerned to show cause why he should not be dealt with for contempt. But, primarily, the responsibility of taking proceedings for the protection of the administration of justice rests upon the law officers of the Crown, and in the present case it is not necessary to remove the matter from their consideration by adopting the exceptional method of making a rule nisi ex mero motu.

I am not suggesting that the case is sub judice, but I submit that until such time as the Crown Law officers have made a determination on this matter, a debate on Senator Leckie’s motion would be most undesirable. I shall ‘ not object to the matter being debated when those officers come to a decision. However, I submit that in view of the trial judge’s comment, and the fact that the matter is being considered by the Crown Law officers, it would not be competent even for the press to comment upon the subject at this stage. Therefore, I contend, Mr. President, that the Senate should not discuss the motion.

Senator Leckie:

– I rise to order. The Postmaster-General (Senator Ashley) does not claim that the subject is sui judice, and, therefore, his point of order is groundless. Unless he claims that the matter is sui judice, and establishes that fact, the Senate will be in order in discussing my motion. Otherwise, if you rule my motion out of order, Mr. President, you will be depriving the Senate of its’ right, to criticize a member of the Administ ra ti on .

Senator Ashley:

– The matter is sui judice so far as the Crown Law Office is concerned.

Senator Leckie:

– As judgment has been given in the case, the matter is not sub judice.

Senator McKenna:

– I support the point of order taken by the PostmasterGeneral (Senator Ashley). I understand, Mr. President, that a somewhat similar matter was before you on Friday last in relation to the case, as it was then understood, pending against the Minister for the Interior (Senator Collings) and the Commonwealth; and that you ruled the motion out of order on the ground that the case was sub judice. I make it perfectly clear that the particular ease is no longer sui judice, even though the time in which an appeal may be lodged has not expired. Consequently, the case is open to comment not only in this Parliament, but also outside. But what is under consideration now is a matter which has been raised by the judge in the first proceedings which may result in a second series of proceedings directed against the Minister for the Interior. The question as to whether a matter may be discussed openly while it is before the court rests on the point as to whether any cause is pending. When one seeks to determine whether the matter to which particular attention was directed by the trial judge is pending or not, one must look for authorities for the proposition that a case need not have commenced before proceedings in relation to contempt apply. On that point there )3 no decided case; but there are cases that go very near to the point. There are also certain general considerations of fair play and natural justice which in any event ought to have first consideration. A judge from the Bench in his judicial capacity has directed attention to the matter, and has caused it to be referred to the Crown Law authorities of the Commonwealth. If any discussion takes place on it in this Parliament, it does so on the highest platform in the land, in a. chamber the report of the proceedings of which is distributed throughout the length and breath of the Commonwealth. It would result in effect in the trial in advance of the Minister upon the matter to which His Honour has directed attention, and in him being discussed on every tram and train in the country. I submit that the true course of justice would not be served if that set of circumstances were to take place. I refer the Senate to a case decided in 1927 by the Lord Chief J ustice of England, Lord Hewart. Sitting in the King’s Bench Division in that year in the case of Rex v, the Daily Mirror, His Lordship had this to say -

We arc not called upon to consider the question whether there may be contempt of court when proceedings are imminent but have not yet been launched. In the present case the question did not arise, for there was a charge ami there had been an arrest, and proceedings therefore had begun. Some day that question may have to bc decided, and for the moment I will only refer to a passage in the judgment of the court, consisting of Lord Alverstone G.J., Wills and Channell J.J., delivered by Wills J. in Rex v. Parke - “ Great stress has been laid upon an expression which has been used in the judgments upon questions of this kind - that the remedy exists when there is a cause pending in the court. We think undue importance has been attached to it. Tt is true that in very nearly all the cases which have arisen, there has been a cause actually begun, so that the expression, quite natural Tinder the circumstances, accentuates the fact, not that the case has been begun, but that it is not at an end. That is the cardinal consideration. It is possible very effectually to poison the fountain of justice before it begins to flow. It is not possible to do so when the stream has ceased.

Those words in Rex v. Parke were quoted with approval by the Lord Chief Justice of England as recently as 3927. That case shows that honorable senators should not poison the fountain of justice in this matter , before it begins to flow. I feel that if that were done a great disservice would be done to the Senate, and an injustice would be done to a Minister. It is certain that any discussion that may take place here may affect not only the minds of the Crown Law officers, who are now considering the facts, but ultimately may have its effect upon the mind of the court which may be called upon to deal with it. I put it to you, sir, that the real test is not: Has this matter begun by the actual initiation of proceedings? but: The matter having been initiated by a High Court judge, has it yet ended ? Of course, we know that it has not yet concluded, and I consider that even on the law, supported by Lord Hewart in the case which he quotes with approval, the Senate should not embark upon a discussion of the subject.

Senator McLeay:

– I suggest that the Crown Law officers could not take action without the approval of the AttorneyGeneral (Dr. Evatt), and it is quite obvious that the case has ended, because the Acting Prime Minister (Mr. Forde) is involved. When the Attorney-General refuses to take action against striking coal-miners he is not likely to take any action which will involve the Acting Prime Minister and another ministerial colleague.

The PRESIDENT:

– Never before in the history of this .Senate has the President , been called upon to give a ruling in a matter similar to this. When the subject was first raised last week the point of order taken was that it would not he right for the Senate to debate a matter which was sub judice. The PostmasterGeneral (Senator Ashley) has not advanced that argument in support of the point of order which he has taken tc-day.

Senator Ashley:

– Yes, but only so far as the Crown Law Officers are concerned.

The PRESIDENT:

– It is, of course, within the province of the President of this chamber to establish precedents. I have the right to determine whether a motion is or is not in order, regardless of whether or not a similar point has beendealt with previously. There are no Standing Orders covering this position. There are, of course, the rulings which I quoted last week dealing with matters awaiting adjudication by a court or is in process of adjudication, and I ruled on that occasion that as the matter was in the process of adjudication the motion which Senator Leckie proposed to move was out of order.

This is a very serious matter, and would he so even though the person involved were not a Minister of the Crown. It involves a criminal offence, and honorable senators will agree that when there is a possibility of action being taken in regard to such an offence, the matter is one which should not be treated lightly. One must be careful not to do or to say anything which might prejudice the fair trial of the person involved. It may be argued that it is not known whether or not the Crown Law authorities will take action. True, they may take action or they may not do so. I cannot tell what will happen, I do not know what is in the minds of officers of the Crown Law Department; I consider that a decision can be regarded as “ pending”, which, according to the Universal English Dictionary, means “ undecided”, unfinished “, or “awaiting settlement “. The case, which was heard in the High Court last week, was to determine whether Mr. Watson or Mr. Harding should be appointed to a certain position. That matter has been settled, and judgment has been given, I understand, in favour of Mr. Watson; but in the course of that judgment the judge made certain remarks which, I take it, have been quoted correctly by the PostmasterGeneral (Senator Ashley).

Senator Ashley:

– I was reading from a copy of the judgment.

The PRESIDENT:

– As the matter is one which may involve the liberty of the Minister for the Interior (Senator Collings), I consider that it would be unjust, regardless of the motives of the mover and those who support him, to permit a discussion of this motion - I do not impugn their motives - I rule that the motion is not in order.

Senator Leckie:

– I move -

That the ruling be dissented from.

My grounds are that it is wrong in principle and contrary to the effectiveness of the work of the Senate.

Senator McLeay:

– I second the motion.

Motion (by Senator Ashley) agreed to-

That the question of dissent requires immediate determination.

Senator Leckie:

Chair is whether the President’s ruling shall be dissented from and, therefore, the question of a guarantee does not arise. In my opinion, guarantees should not be sought from any Minister in this matter. Had you, Mr. President, ruled that the motion was in order, the debate would have proceeded; but as you have ruled that the motion is not in order, that should be an end of the matter. The Leader of the Opposition said, in effect, that the Attorney-General, or the Government, dictates to the Crown Law officers.

Senator McLeay:

– There is no doubt about that.

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– -The honorable senator, in making that statement, reflects upon not only the present AttorneyGeneral and the present Government, but also all previous Governments and Attorneys-General. Thus the very people who, today, with the assistance of the press, are condemning the Minister for Information (Mr. Calwell) for his attack upon certain members of the judiciary, are themselves reflecting upon one who has been a distinguished member of the High Court bench.

Senator Grant:

– This is extraneous, Mr. President. Let us get on with the business of the Senate. The question before the Chair is that your ruling be dissented from.

The PRESIDENT:

– No honorable senator, no matter on what side of the chamber he may sit, shall dictate to me how I shall conduct the business of the Senate. I am here to mete out justice to all honorable senators, and to see that the right of free speech is given to all of them. T have an answer to some of the points that have been raised in this debate; but I shall give to every honorable senator the right to speak, and he will be limited in what he says only by the Standing Orders. I do not want any honorable senator to tell me to get on with the business of the Senate. Every honorable senator has the right to speak to the question before the Chair. It is a very important matter, and honorable senators on both sides will be heard provided they keep within the Standing Orders.

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– So far as I am concerned, honorable senators opposite are not going to “ get away “ with any reflection upon the Attorney-General, who is not here to protect himself. The Leader of the Opposition said, in effect, that even if the evidence warranted a prosecution, the Attorney-General would not prosecute the Minister for the Interior because he had failed to prosecute the coal-miners. The fact is that prosecutions against coal-miners arc going on all the time.

Senator McLeay:

– Can the Crown Law officers initiate a prosecution without the approval of the Attorney-General ?

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– That is a matter for the Attorney-General. The . Leader of the Opposition said that the Crown Lawofficers, in coming to a decision, would bc- influenced by the Attorney-General. 1 agree with your ruling, Mr. President, that Senator Leckie’s motion is out of order. As Senator McKenna has stated, a continuation of the case in which judgment has just been given is pending. In view of that fact, the Senate should be the last place in which a discussion on a case which has not yet been disposed of should be allowed ; because, under privilege of Parliament, many things are said which members of Parliament would not say outside. The Leader of the Opposition, for instance, would not dare to say outside some of the things he has said in this chamber. I agree with your ruling, Mr. President, for the further reason that a discussion on the motion, as Senator McKenna has said, might prejudice the liberty of the Minister for the Interior.

Senator Finlay:

– I should like to know, Mr. President, whether I would be in order in moving, “That the Senate do now divide “.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator would be in order in submitting that motion; but before he does so, I should like to say something on the matter. I have ruled that the motion is out of order, and a motion that my ruling bo dissented from has been moved, on the ground that it. is wrong in principle, and adversely affects the work of the Senate. I contend that my ruling does not adversely affect the work of the

Senate. On the contrary, it is a principle of British justice that no man shall be adjudged guilty before he has been tried. The Minister for the Interior (Senator Collings) may have to stand his trial on a charge of contempt of court; and it is a proper principle for the Senate and its President to lay down thai no man, against whom action is pending in a criminal court, shall be prejudiced by a debate in this chamber. Despite the .fact that we are all reasonable men, we may, nevertheless, in the heat of debate, say things that would probably prejudice the hearing of the case that is pending, and probably influence the Solicitor-General in considering his recommendation. Therefore, in order to be just, I have ruled that no debate should take place on a matter of this kind. As a matter of fact, the Leader of the Opposition (Senator McLeay) has strengthened my ruling, because so far as I can gather his objection to it is based on the question of time, namely, hp to whether or not the Solicitor-General can come to a conclusion before the present session of Parliament terminates. If he comes to a conclusion before this session is ended, then, according to the Leader of the Opposition, my ruling is right; but, otherwise, it is wrong. That is the argument which the Leader of the Opposition has adduced. So far as I know, the Solicitor-General is just; and he will deal with this case as he would deal with any other. He will come to a. conclusion which will be conveyed to the AttorneyGeneral. I do not know what the AttorneyGeneral will do, but it would be competent for the matter to be raised again should the Attorney-General fry te delay the case. Personally, I do not think that the Attorney-General, or the Solicitor-General, would deliberately try to delay the case. Therefore, my ruling is strengthened by the only argument raised against it, namely, as to whether or not the Attorney-General, or the Solicitor-General, can come to a decision upon the matter within the nest few days.

Question put -

That the ruling be dissented from.

The Senate divided. (The President - Senator the Hon. Gordon Brown.)

AYES: 11

NOES: 21

Majority . . 10

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the negative.

page 2172

QUESTION

ALLIED WORKS COUNCIL

Release of Personnel - Butler’s Gorge Works

Senator O’FLAHERTY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

Has the compulsion to serve in the Allied Works Council been abandoned?
If so, will the Minister give those now serving in the Allied Works Council or the Civil Constructional Corps an opportunity to be released from either service should any such person desire it?

Senator COLLINGS:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows : -

No.
It would be impracticable to do as suggested in view of the fact that staff has again to be built up because of the increase in high priority works.

Senator SAMPSON:
TASMANIA · NAT; UAP from 1931; LP from 1944

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

Has the Allied Works Council commenced work on the Butler’s Gorge Dam, Tasmania?
If so, is the work fully manned?
When is it estimated that this project will be completed?

Senator COLLINGS:

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows -

Yes.
No.
In the spring of1946.

page 2172

QUESTION

PIG MEAT

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minis ter representing the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture, upon notice -

Is it a fact that owing to drought conditions in Queensland many farmers are unable to fatten their pigs to over the 100 lb. dressed weightnecessary to qualifyfor baconers, and that for the same reason, buyers of store pigs are unable to operate, with the result that the market is over-supplied with stores?
Is it a fact that the present market price for baconers is 91/2d. to10d. per lb.?
Is it a fact that owing to the ban on the sale of pork, carcasses under 100 lb. dressed weight can only be used for the manutacture of smallgoods, and that the price for this type is 5d. to 53/4d. per lb.?
If the answers to questions Nos. 1 to 3 are in the affirmative, will the Minister allow pigs of under 100 lb. weight to be sold as pork when fodder is not available, thus giving the farmer an opportunity of getting rid of his store stock and the community an opportunity of variety in their diet?

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has supplied the following answers : -

No.
No. Certain dealers in parts of Queensland have offered to buy baconers at 91/2d. per lb., which cannot be accepted as the present market price. Action for breaches of national security regulations is being taken against the persons concerned.
No. Carcasses of dressed chilled weight 82-100 lb. are accepted for export to the United Kingdom at prices specified in the pig meat plan which are very much higher than 5d. to 53/4d. per lb.
No. The ban on the slaughter of porker pigs and the prohibition on the sale of pork to the consuming public must continue so that urgent and pressing demands by the services for bacon and ham may be met.

page 2172

QUESTION

DIVISION OF IMPORT PROCUREMENT

Staff in America.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

asked the Minister representing the Acting Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What is the total number of employees of the Division of Import Procurement at present in the United States of America?
What duties are these officers carrying out?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The Acting Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following answers: -

Four.
A. C. Moore, C.B.E., Director (accompanying Senator the Honorable R. V. Keane, Minister for Trade and Customs). Discussions on matters related to lend-lease and Canadian mutual aid. Also on outstanding problems in relation to cargoes requisitioned by the Commonwealth Government from vessels diverted to Australia in late 1041 and early 1942. H. R. Woodrow - Public Relations Officer - assisting Mr. A. C. Moore in respect of requisitioned cargoes. F. ,). McGuinness - Commodity Controller, en route from United Kingdom after discussions on supply of textiles to Australia. A. J. Day - Paper Controller. Discussions on supply of paper and wood pulp from United States and Canada.

page 2173

QUESTION

TEA RATIONING

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Acting Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

ls it a fact that huge stocks of tea are held by the naval and military authorities; if so, will the Government give immediate consideration to the granting of an increase in the tea ration to the civilian population?
Failing a general increase in the civilian tea ration, will the Government grant an increase in the tea ration to all ‘persons of 00 years of age and over 7

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The Acting Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following answers: -

No.
There are administrative difficulties in making additional tea available to adults on an age basis. Many persons, both under and over 00 years, do not require or desire an additional ration, while, on the other hand, many persons, ‘both under and over GO years, would consume .more tea if it were available. Civilian tea stocks are not above what is considered prudent to retain in present circumstances and it is not possible to increase the ration generally. Provision is already made, however, for extra tea to he granted in outback areas where living conditions are difficult and drinking water is scarce.

page 2173

QUESTION

SYDNEY TURF CLUB

Senator FOLL:
through Senator James McLachlan

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

Has authority been granted to the Sydney Turf Club to raise a loan of £250,000 for the purchase of, and alterations and additions to, various race clubs in .Sydney I
Is it the intention of the Government to authorize this loan?
In view of the importance of securing sufficient loan funds for the war effort, does the Government consider it an appropriate time to grant this .permission?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The Treasurer has supplied the following answers: -

No.
An application for permission to acquire two Sydney race-courses has been received from the Sydney Turf Club and is at .present under consideration together with the financial implications involved.
See answer to No. 2.

page 2173

QUESTION

SECOND VICTORY LOAN

Senator SAMPSON:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

What amount was subscribed to the Second Victory War Loan by (a) the Commonwealth Savings Bank; (h) State savings banks; (c) other savings banks?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The Treasurer states that inquiries are being made, and a reply will be furnished as soon as possible.

page 2173

QUESTION

RELEASE OF INTERNEES

Senator COOPER:

asked the Acting Minister for the Army, upon notice -

Is it a fact that nation-wide protests have been made by members of the Returned Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen’s Imperial League of Australia and several other organizations against the Government’s policy of releasing in Australia all .internees from overseas (provided there is no individual security objection and that on release the internees can bc suitably employed or otherwise suitably supported) ?
If so, will the Government consider making releases only where the internees can be suitably employed in the Aliens Construction Corps on work of such a nature that will not give them an opportunity of firmly entrenching themselves in positions that will be to the disadvantage of our own service .personnel when they return to civilian life?

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– A number of protests have been received, particularly from Queensland members of the Returned Sailors, .Soldiers and Airmen’s Imperial League of Australia. As there appears to be some misunderstanding in the Senate and elsewhere as to the .policy under which certain overseas internees are released in Australia, it is my intention to issue a statement on the matter as early as possible.

page 2174

QUESTION

MALARIA

Senator COLLETT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Acting

Minister for the Army, upon notice -

Is it a fact that members of the Army who are found to be suffering from malaria are charged with an offence as if for a self- inflicted wound?
If so, what is the explanation of this procedure?
What is the incidence of malaria in the Army to-day as compared with the opening months of the operations in New Guinea?

SenatorFRASER. - The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows : -

No.
See answer to No. 1.
In1942, at the peak period, the maximum rate in operational troops was about 120 per l,000 per week. The rate at thepresent time in field formations in New Guinea is less than one per 1,000 per week.

page 2174

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN ARMY

Re-employment of Service Personnel.

Senator COLLETT:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice -

With reference to the Rehabilitation Section in Western Australia -

How many persons who -

served beyond Australia,

served only within Australia, having been discharged from the services, have applied for employment?

How many have been placed in employment ?

Is there any system of classification or types of employment?

If so, what numbers have been placed in each type of employment enumerated in such classification ?

Is it a facet that persons have been sent to work of an unsuitable or temporary character on the understanding that they would not bo kept there and, later, been refused permission to accept a better type of work when offered ?

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

– The Minister for Labour and National Service states that the information is being obtained and will be made available as soon as possible.

page 2174

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN PRISONERS OF WAR

Senator BRAND:
VICTORIA

asked the Acting Minister for the Army, upon notice -

Is the Minister in a position to say how many Australians are in Japanese prisonerofwar camps, and where same are located?
Has the Swiss Government been able to ascertain why Red Cross parcels have not been received by Australian prisoners of war in Ja paneseca m ps ?

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows : -

The number and location of Australian prisoners of war in Japanese hands as far as known is as follows: -

It is known that Red Cross parcels have been received by some Australian prisoners of warin camps in Japan and Formosa. The Swiss Government representatives have not been permitted by the Japanese Government to inspect prisoner-of-war “camps in Japaneseoccupied territory and there is no reliable information as to the distribution (if any) of Red Cross parcels in those territories. Most recent advice suggests that a Japanese ship is to proceed to a Russian port to load relief supplies which have been concentrated there by the Red Cross authorities for distribution to British and other Allied prisoners of war in Japanese hands. It is clear, however, that the distribution of these supplies is controlled by the Japanese Government.

page 2174

QUESTION

SERVICE PENSIONS

Senator BRAND:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Repatriation, upon notice -

Will the Minister instruct the Repatriation Commission to antedate the payment of a pension from the date the application or appeal was lodged, and not from the date the pension was approved, which in most cases has been after months of delay, for which the applicant is not responsible and during which period he has been unable to follow his normal civil occupation ?

Senator CAMERON:
ALP

– The Minister for Repatriation has supplied the following answer: -

When a claim for pension is lodged and the claim is allowed, the pension invariably commences from the date of lodgment of the claim, or the day after cessation of service pay whichever is the later. When an appeal against rejection of a claim is lodged and the appeal is allowed, pension isgranted from the date of lodgment of the appeal, or, if the circumstances warrant, from a date not prior to the period of six months immediately preceding the lodgment of the appeal. In 1939- war cases, where the. Final Medical Board has indicated an entitlement to pension, the date of discharge from the forces is fixed to operate from a date 30 days after despatch of the member’s service documents to the Repatriation Department, and practically all cases are determined before that date. When it is not possible to determinethe claim within the 80 days, the Repatriation Department requests that the date of discharge be further deferred.

page 2175

UNITED NATIONSFOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION BILL 1944

Second Reading

Debate resinned from the 24th November(vide page21 12), on motionby Senator Ashley -

That the bill be now reada secondtime.

Senator O’FLAHERTY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

. -I support this measure. Although it does not represent anything new in international spheres- after all there have been many international conventions, although, unfortunately, the recommendations have not been adopted by many nations- it is an innovation in that it deals with a class of the community which more than any other section has been exploited in the past, namely, the rural workers. The measure provides for the exchange of agricultural knowledge gained by the nations which subscribe to this international agreement. This free exchange of knowledge is something which has not been achieved even amongst the States in this country. Most of the States have their own agricultural colleges, such as the Hawkesbury Agricultural College in New South Wales, and the Roseworthy Agricultural College in South Australia, and in addition, there, are experimental farms dealing with horticultural and other pursuits; but hitherto there has been no means of pooling for the benefit of the Commonwealth as a whole, the valuable information obtained as the result of the activities of these institutions. As a signatory to this international agreement the Commonwealth will set up an investigating authority the responsibility of . which will be to collate the scientific knowledge gained in the various

States. Asa matter of course that knowledge will be available, not only to the international organization, but also to all States of the Commonwealth. This method of organizing agriculture on a world-wide basis hasnever been attempted before. Just what it will mean to the world can be gatheredfrom a review of the existing position. Throughout the world to-day we have various systems of government. For instance, in totalitarian countries the human element in society is exploitedto the limit during itsterm of usefulness for the benefit ofthe State-, and then. When that period of usefulness has ended, it is discarded. On the other hand, we have the countries which tend towards a socialist administration, under which the object is to obtain the best that every individual has to offer, but then when his periodof usefulness has ended, he is cared for for the rest of his life. That is done to a greater degree to-day than ever before in history.Then we have the so-called democratic countries of which, Australia, as a part of the British Commonwealth of Nations, is one. What is our attitude towards this problem? We utilize the labour of human beings spasmodically. We obtain the best from them just when we think it is required. In recent years we have taken care of human labour in a very mild way. We have given to the workers just sufficient food to keep them alive. The object, of course, is to provide against the necessity for having to use the human factor again; just as store cattle are kept in a halfnourished condition so that at a future period they may be fattened up for a specific purpose. That is what we are doing even in this war period. There are people who arenot getting sufficient to eat. Ofcourse; we have done a little more forour people than has been done in the totalitarian countries. We have adopted a dole system in the interests of those who have been useful to the country. In their old age they are provided with a dole. We smirk and claim that the old folk are being looked after. We ball the dole a pension, but afterall it is only a dole. We provide them with only sufficient to buy food, clothing and shelter of a meagre character.

– No such question would arise. A bag of potatoes might be exchanged for a bolt of silk and the goods cost equated to a price in our currency.

Reference was made by Senator Gibson to the present restriction of production in Australia, and Senator Cooper also spoke of the matter. In effect, Senator Gibson said that Australia might find itself hampered by many restrictions imposed by countries in which it is not interested. That is a “ one-eyed “ analysis of the agreement. It indicates that the honorable senator believes that because he is in opposition he must oppose whatever the Government proposes. If he were to examine the bill closely, he would find that all the decisions of the organization must come before this Parliament. The agreement is not binding until the Parliament has ratified it.

Senator Herbert Hays:

Amendments to this constitution involving new obligations for member nations shall require the approval of the conference by a vote concurred in by a two-thirds majority of all the members of the conference…..

That provision refers only to any alteration of the constitution of the proposed organization. Glancing at the list of nations concerned, 45 in number, it is not very difficult to visualize the possibility that two-thirds of them might entertain views which might not coincide with ours. However, that provision refers only to alterations of the constitution. Clause 5 of the bill, which deals with the appropriation, is related to Article XVIII. and Article XXV. The total expenditure of the organization during the first year is estimated at 2,500,000,000 dollars, and Australia’s share will be31/3 per cent. of that amount. However, that is the estimate for the first year only, whereas it is quite probable that the total expenditure, and Australia’s contribution, may be considerably increased subsequently. Paragraph I., Article XVIII. provides -

Subject to the provisions of Article XXV., the Director-General shall submit to the Conference an annual budget covering the anticipated expenses of the Organization. Upon approval of a budget the total amount approved shall be allocated among the member nations in proportions determined, from time to time, by the Conference. Each member nation undertakes, subject to the requirements of its constitutional procedure, to contribute to the organization promptly its share of the expenses so determined.

I emphasize that we are appropriating money not for one year only, but for so long as this measure remains on our statute-book. At the same time, provision is made that a conference of the member nations by a simple majority may alter the proportion of the amount payable by any member nation. Having regard to the nations listed, it is not difficult to imagine that they might come to the conclusion that Australia should pay. considerably more than is set out in this measure. So far as I am able to ascertain, our commitment for the first year will be between £25,000 and £26,000. Having regard to the purpose of the appropriation, that money willbe well spent, because in association with these nations we shall be able to obtain very valuable information concerning production and marketing. The point I make, however, is that this commitment may later be increased to, say, £100,000 or an even larger sum, because provision is made for annual reapportionment of the total expenditure. Therefore, I submit that in relation to these aspects of the measure, our position is, to say the least, unstable. Evidently, the Government has endeavoured to protect itself against the possibilities I have pointed out, because it is provided that no further charge can remain against Australia without the consent of this Parliament. However, that provision is not made in respect of the other matters I have mentioned. Therefore, I ask the Postmaster-General to take up with the Attorney-General the points I have raised, with a view to elucidating them at the committee stage. Taking the bill by and large, we shall have to pass it. We must establish contact with other nations in respect of the marketing of primary products; and, consequently, the measure should be to our benefit.

Senator COURTICE:
Queensland

– I was rather pleased to hear the closing remark of Senator Hayes, that it is necessary for Australia to undertake its responsibilities with regard to its future agricultural policy in association with the nations of the world. This measure should receive the unanimous support of honorable senators. Our interests are amply protected as will be seen from thepreamble to the Schedule, which reads -

The Nations accepting this Constitution, being determined to promote the common welfare by furthering separate and collective action on their part for the purposes of - raising levels of nutrition and standards of living of the peoples under theirrespective jurisdictions, securing improvements in the efficiency of the production and distribution of all food and agricultural products. . . .

That is a very laudable, and necessary, objective. We cannot go on as we have in the past, and remain masters of our destiny so far as production and marketing are concerned. The real problem in this matter is that of distribution, which can be achieved only by ensuring a better distribution of the wealth of the world. The peoples of all nations must be given sufficient purchasing power in order to enable them to obtain the products necessary to raise their nutritional standards.

Senator HERBERT Hays:

– That is the basic principle of free trade.

Senator COURTICE:

– No. This organization is .being provided for the purpose of achieving a better understanding between the nations in the handling of their problems in respect of food and agriculture. I have given much consideration to this matter in the past. I have always held the view that ir was Australia’s duty to establish closer contact with other Britishspeaking .peoples, so that we might be enabled to solve similar problems in a spirit of mutual sympathy and understanding. The bill outlines the tremendous task in which 45 nations of the world are to be involved. Imagine how difficult it must be for the representatives of 45 nations, who speak different languages and have different objectives, to solve, while sitting at a conference table, many of the problems with which the world will be confronted. I do not say that great results will follow from the bill, but it is at least a beginning. It is only by a greater understanding of all our problems that we can hope for a better state of things after the war. I have for a long time appreciated the difficulties which those engaged in primary industries have to face in trying to maintain a proper standard of living. One of the great objects of the Labour party has been to improve the standard of living of the whole community, and one of the means adopted has been the control of production. We simply cannot go on producing commodities haphazardly without regard to the marketing end of the business. I have been associated with those who have tried to control production with a view to improving the marketing of our produce, but after all a policy of restriction is a policy of despair. We cannot continue on those lines We must have a system of organized production with a view all the time to making the best of the markets of the world as well as of the markets in our own country. If our primary industries are to face after this war circumstances similar to those which prevailed after the last one, they will have indeed a dreadful state of affairs in front of them. I look upon the agreement contained in the bill as a very fine gesture on the part of the peoples of the world, who recognize that all these problems must be faced and dealt with if we are all to enjoy peace and prosperity. I do not believe that many of. the great industrialists are anxious to improve the conditions of the people just for the sake of improving them. Rather do I think that they share the widespread belief that unless the people of the world have adequate purchasing power industry will collapse. The markets must be provided by the masses of the people. Otherwise, the application of technical knowledge and scientific improvements to industry will bring about conditions similar to those which prevailed after the last war, when, even though there were many people starving in the world, the farmers in some countries poured their milk down the drain, just to maintain a price for that which they marketed. Coffee was burned to dispose of the surplus. The world cannot afford to follow those lines again. One of the things that must occupy the attention of all governments in the future is the better organization of agriculture. I remember the conditions that existed during and after the last depression. The following will give honorable senators a good idea of what took place then: -

Farmers will remember with bitter memories the last depression, and other crises when dairymen received as low as 6d. and 7d. a lb. for butter, when wheat sold for less than 2s. a bushel, and when the world was glutted with cheap-labour sugar that sold as low as £4 a ton. Tens of thousands of farmers were ruined in those depressions. Economists now admit that, with good leadership, the effect of the depressions could have been overcome.

America, which because of its large population has large and profitable home markets for the products of its primary and secondary industries.

Senator O’flaherty:

– It subsidizes the primary producers.

Senator HERBERT HAYS:

– Yes. Great Britain, too, has launched out on an entirely new policy by paying substantial bounties in respect of agricultural products. I am not opposed to the principle embodied in the agreement, but I point out that Australia, being a great continent, and being occupied by only a comparatively small number of people, has much scope for development. It is in a position to do more, perhaps, than any other country in providing food for the peoples overseas who are in dire need of it. But the food must be paid for, and that can only be done by the importation of other goods from the countries to be assisted. The purpose of the scheme is to secure freedom from want among the people of countries which have low standards of living. We can honorably subscribe to this agreement, but we should also remember that we are trustees for the peoples of Australia. We are committing ourselves to an agreement which in a measure represents a leap in the dark. Therefore, we should take care that the provisions of the agreement are not detrimental to us, although we are anxious to do what we can to alleviate the conditions of the peoples in countries less fortunate than our own.

Senator TANGNEY:
Western Australia

– I support this measure, which is one of the most humane of all documents that have come before the Senate since I have had the honour to be a member of it. It includes within its ambit both the national and international spheres, and its full import cannot at first be grasped. I am sorry to see so much cold water thrown upon this excellent scheme, and so much doubt expressed, based, perhaps, on experience of conferences of an international character. From the lessons we have learnt, however, we should realize that Australia’s destiny lies, not in a policy of isolation, particularly in matters of the kind with which the bill deals, but in the fullest co-operation with other nations, especially those which are engaged with us in the present struggle for tie freedom of democracy.

In discussing the measure on Friday last, Senator Cooper was sceptical as to its success, because of the policy of the Government in having paid primary producers to limit production during the war years. Sums amounting to thousands of pounds were paid to farmers in Western Australia, particularly those on marginal wheat lands, for the purpose of limiting production, but the position should be fully understood before the policy adopted is condemned. Western Australia was at that time very close to the scene of hostilities, the mainland of Australia being threatened with attack by Japan. Every man and woman who could be spared from any industry, whether rural or otherwise, was required in the fighting services. In some of the outback areas of that State, the production of wheat became uneconomic, but it was necessary to keep men and women on those farms for the benefit of the fighting men who would need to resume rural activities there when victory had been won. I made an extensive trip through the marginal wheat areas of Western Australia where farmers were required to limit their production of wheat. They were being paid, not to refrain from producing wheat, but to keep the farms in working order. At Newdegate, I came across a woman who was living in poor circumstances on an outback farm. She appeared to be quite happy there. She had made the best of a little shack, and she told me that she had been struggling there for eleven years. She had had only two holidays, which were spent at the maternity hospital at Lake Grace, 50 miles away from her home. Those were her only two breaks from the routine of the farm during that period. She said that with the provision of a guaranteed price for farm products, and the restriction of acreage which made for the more economic working of holdings, she hoped to have improved living conditions with adequate vacations. At other places I saw similar conditions. Inspired by a spirit of patriotism many young men from country districts joined the colours; others enlisted in order to escape from the loneliness of farm life. We must see that when these young people return to civil occupations sufficient inducements are offered to cause them to take up life on the land again. Country life must be made more attractive. This agreement will help in that direction, because by collaborating with other nations and learning what is best in agricultural production, we should be able to improve living conditions for primary producers in Australia, and so have less difficulty in persuading our young men and women to remain on the land. Senator Hayes spoke of Australia’s small consuming population, and of the great populations of other countries. Western Australia is close to an immense market in the East; it takes only eight days to convey produce from Fremantle to India, where millions of human beings exist under the most deplorable conditions. Indeed, in that country millions of people may starve notwithstanding that in Western Australia there may be huge stacks of wheat. I am aware that during the war lack of shipping facilities has prevented some of that wheat from being sent to India, but a similar state of affairs existed before the war, when transport facilities were available. Because of an outmoded system that wheat remained in Australia. We must see that such conditions do not recur. The honorable senator also said that because of increased production of primary products in Great Britain Australia was likely to lose its markets in that country. I am glad that the honorable senator did not say that Great Britain was producing sufficient for the needs of its people, but only that their requirements were being met largely by local producers. The people of Great Britain are not receiving anything like the quantities of food that they need. One egg a month is all that they get. I have been told that on one day each month no one in Britain is late for breakfast; that is the day on which an egg is available. I am certain that the honorable senator would not suggest that one egg a month for each person would constitute a reasonable supply in days of peace. Unfortunately, the shortage of foodstuffs is not confined to eggs. Although the war-time production of food in Great Britain may meet the severe scale of rationing now in existence there, the post-war needs of the people will not be met by local producers; and so, although a portion of the British market may be lost to us, there will still be opportunities to dispose of increased quantities of foodstuffs there.

Australia’s participation in this organization will be fourfold in character. The first aim of the organization is to raise existing levels of nutrition and health. No one will deny that that is a most laudable aim. I have heard it said that Australian levels are high, and that it would be almost impossible to improve them, but that is a misstatement. During the present war many thousands of young men and young women in this country have been rejected for service with the armed forces because of physical unfitness. About 30 per cent, of the poeple of the white race do not measure up to reasonable standards of physical fitness. In a neighbouring Asiatic country 75 per cent, of the people suffer from malnutrition. Included in freedom from want is freedom from, hunger, and if the peoples of the world are to be free from want their standards of nutrition and health must be raised. Australia cannot pride itself sn its standards of nutrition and health; 3n the contrary, they are deplorably low. There is, unfortunately, a high incidence of tuberculosis, cancer, insanity, and other similar diseases. The health of the general community is indissolubly bound up with improved methods of agriculture and increased supplies of good food. The first aim of this organization, therefore, should receive the approval of every honorable senator. Other aims are a greater production of foodstuffs of all kinds, and their better distribution. Here, again, Australia can learn a great deal from intercourse with other nations. “We have achieved the right to full nationhood in peace as well as in war. One sign of our nationhood should be our participation in world affairs on equal terms with other nations. I agree with much that has been said about theorists and university professors. It is vital that we should have the advantage of the experience of practical men and women, but that does not mean that theorists should have no place in our thoughts. We should combine sound theory with practice; the two things cannot be divorced. If in making appointments to this organization the Government chooses some representatives from the ranks of practical primary producers it will go a long way to overcome the disabilities mentioned by honorable senators opposite, because one practical man is worth a dozen theorists. I am confident that the Government will act wisely when making these appointments.

A most important aspect of this subject is that of the distribution of foodstuffs. I shall not paint a picture showing the distress which existed during the depression years through a lack of a proper system for the distribution of foodstuffs. What is true of a small community is no less true in the larger international sphere. In the depression years there was food in plenty, but the people who needed it most could not buy it. That state of affairs existed in almost every country of the world. We have already had before us a measure for the constitution of an organization known as Unrra; this measure carries the same principle further, in that it aims at improving the means of distribution to the peoples of various countries. That is a desirable objective. It envisages an improvement of living standards throughout the world, and although it does not confine itself solely to agricultural products, it will mean that the standard of living of one section of the people cannot be raised without other sections being affected. “ No man liveth to himself “, and it is equally true that no country can live to itself. This war has shown the interdependence of the nations of the world. By developing international machinery for the disposal of agricultural products, we shall do much to alleviate distress ; it should be impossible for a glut of primary products to exist in one country at a time when millions of people are starving in another country. In India, which, after all, is a close neighbour of Western Australia, millions of human beings have a standard of existence inferior to that of our household pets. To them we send missionaries to teach the tenets of Christianity, . but we do not do much to provide them with food for their bodies, notwithstanding that food may be wasting in- our’ storehouses.

Any scheme for the better distribution of the world’s production of foodstuffs must have stability of prices as its basis. The man on the land is just as much entitled to know what his income will be as is a worker in any secondary industry. For that reason, we must devote our attention to stabilizing the prices of primary products. Orchardists in Western Australia have told me that had it not been for the stability given to their industry by the apple and peatacquisition scheme, many of them would have had to leave their holdings. It is true that under that scheme some growers have not received the income which they would have received under a system of unrestricted competition in the local market, but other growers who were dependent on overseas markets as an outlet for their production would have had to leave their orchards when those markets were closed by the war had not the -Government come to their assistance. In the south-west portion of Western Australia, where fruit-growing is the occupation of many of the people, the settlers generally were thankful for the stability which the acquisition scheme had provided. What can be done in one section of primary production in one part of a State oan be extended to embrace all sections of primary industry throughout the Commonwealth. This bill will provide a guarantee to primary producers which will enable them to plan their production. In the past, nobody has regarded it as his business to see that primary producers had a decent standard of living. We must also have a policy of rural housing, and here also Australia can learn much from other countries. Nothing will be lost by pooling our resources with those of other nations. On the contrary, much is to be gained by so doing.

Sitting suspended from 5.69 to 8 p.m.

Senator TANGNEY:

– Prior to the suspension of the sitting I was discussing the implications of the proposed organization insofar as it affects the welfare of the workers on the land with particular reference to housing, health and educational facilities. Many of the member nations have achieved standards of rural housing and rural education which we should do well to emulate. Our present standards in relation to both those subjects are deplorably low, andI visualize in the immediate post-war period a definite plan for the improvement of the housing of our rural population. Our economy depends to so great a degree upon our primary producers that we must consider every aspect of their welfare in any scheme of post-war development. Some nations which have already assented to the constitution of this organization have reached high standards in this regard, and, therefore, any conference in which we engage with them cannot fail to benefit Australia. Some honorable senators have said that we have not much to gain under this scheme, that we shall be the givers and not the receivers. I disagree with that view, because it is not the giving of material goods only that will mean the success or failure of this venture, but also the exchange of ideas which can be put into practice for the benefit of the community. Our standard of rural education leaves a great deal to be desired. One of the objects of the organization is -

The improvement of education and administration relating to nutrition, food and agriculture, and the spread of public knowledge of nutritional and agricultural science and practice.

Therein lies a very important avenue of activitiy for this country. Quite recently when I visited Tasmania I had the privilege of seeing something of what is being done in that State with regard to rural education in area schools. But just as Tasmania gives a lead to the other Australian States in that respect, some American States are in advance of Tasmania in that sphere; and any pooling of ideas for the betterment of our educational system generally, and out scientific and agricultural education m particular, must prove of immense benefit to this country. Another important function of the organization is the conservation of natural resources and the adoption of improved methods of agricultural production. Those honorable senators who were privileged to see the film shown this morning dealing with soil erosion in the Mallee country must realize that Australia has a vast and a growing responsibility in this respect. “We have seen so much of our areas devastated by soil erosion that any opportunity to pool the scientific intelligence of the world to help us to overcome this menace to agricultural production must be exploited to the full; and I believe that if we are to have a pooling of the knowledge of only twenty nations in conference upon a problem such as this we shall evolve a remedy for this great national problem. It is also intended that the organization shall recommend national and international action with respect to the improvement of the processing, marketing and distribution of food and agricultural products. The United States of America leads the world in the processing of food. In Australia we have endeavoured to build up an industry of food preservation, but we have a great deal to learn from other countries in this respect. Therefore, although some honorable senators regard this proposal as a material form of giving, the giving of agricultural products as food to the world, I believe that there is much more of value to be exchanged in the form of practical ideas which can be put into practice to the benefit of the member nations. Even more important is the intention of the organization to adopt . international policies with respect to agricultural commodity arrangements which will be based on a spirit of internationalism and will do much to break down the idea that we in Australia are too parochial and isolationist in outlook. The time has passed for isolationism. We regard Australia as one of the great food nations of the world, and in order to obtain the greatest benefits for our primary producers we must have ordinary marketing with all countries. It is of vital importance to Australia that the huge markets of Asia be exploited, but it is even more important that the starving millions in Asiatic countries receive the benefits of our marketing. Senator Hays referred to the fact that we have a population of only 7,000,000 people whilst other nations have a large consumer population. The essence of this organization is to provide more equitable distribution of the foodstuffs which Australia and other nations can produce. The spectacle we have witnessed in the past of so many millions starving in close proximity to this land of plenty, whilst many of our own workers have not been able to win rewards for their labour because we were unable to find markets, has been a slur upon our economy. Some honorable senators condemn the proposal as being idealistic, whilst others oppose it because they do not expect Australia to gain much benefit, from it. To those who hold either of those ideas I say that anything worth while yet achieved in the history of civilization has been founded upon an ideal. Without practical idealists, not theorists, no advance could have been made in civilization ; and to stand out from this organization at this stage because certain difficulties must be overcome, or because some people believe that the proposal is too idealistic, is a confession of failure to which it ill behoves this nation to subscribe. Therefore, I have very great confidence in supporting the measure; and I trust that in the years to come the people of Australia and the contributing nations will have reason to thank their respective governments for co-operating in this organization.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– A number of honorable senators have said that this measure is practically identical with the Unrra bill. The two bills are entirely different.

The Unrra bill contained purely a philanthropic gesture by the United Nations toward the peoples of countries devastated by war, and all contributions under that measure are to be a gift to those people to assist them in their distress. On the other hand, this proposal is not a philanthropic gesture, but. absolutely a business arrangement. For that reason this scheme will have very far-reaching effects. Whilst under Unrra we propose to assist in the rehabilitation of devastated countries, under this proposal we are to become members of an organization which is to be given practically unlimited powers, and in which numbers and not values will rule. The activities of this association embodied in this measure are practically unlimited. The organization will be given almost unlimited powers to control primary production in not only Australia but also all of the other member nations. We must remember also that in this organization, which will have its headquarters at Washington, each of the 45 member nations will have one vote, and at least twenty nations must signify their intention of joining before the organization will be actually constituted. Furthermore, each nation which joins must become a member for at least five years. This organization will control a great , proportion of the export trade of each member nation. On a population basis Australia is a small nation, but we rank about third or fourth as an exporter of foodstuffs. I ask honorable senators to glance at the list of signatories, and to ask themselves just exactly how much do they know about those countries. What do we know about countries like Chile, Cuba, Ethiopia, Guatemala, Honduras, and others in the list? ! Senator Nash. - Does not the honorable senator think that there are any intelligent people in those countries?

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– I do not doubt their intelligence, but there is no reason why we should tie ourselves up with them and give them the right to tell us what we are to do with our produce. This organization, many of the members of which are importing countries, will be able to direct us, an exporting country, what we are to export, and what we are to charge.

Senator Nash:

– Where does the honorable senator get that assumption?

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

– Out of the provision that two-thirds of the members of the organization, when it meets-, can do practically anything they like. Paragraph 6 of Article IV. provides -

The Conference may, by a two-thirds majority of the votes cast, agree to discharge any other functions consistent with the purposes of the organization which may be assigned to it by governments, or provided for by ally arrangement between the organization and any other public international organization.

Senator Finlay:

– It must be ‘ approved by both Houses of Parliament.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

-The agreement does not say so.

Senator O’flaherty:

– The conference can make recommendations.

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

-Nothing is said about recommending. Are we to be dictated to by a number of these small countries as to what our exports shall be, and what prices we shall charge ?

Senator Aylett:

– Does the honorable senator want to be an isolationist?

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Supporters of this measure claim that Australia will not be tied down in any way by the agreement, but the PostmasterGeneral (Senator Ashley), who introduced the bill, said -

The immediate step to he taken by governments should be the adoption of methods to prevent violent fluctuation of the price of agricultural products and to give producers s.table and high incomes so that the greatest possible use would be made of existing productive capacity.

Another of the functions of the organization is generally to take all necessary and appropriate action to implement the purposes of the organization, as set forth in the preamble to the schedule. How can fluctuations in agricultural production be prevented, unless producers in certain countries are not prevented from growing the customary quantity of produce? There would be times when Australia would have to be told that it must limit its agricultural production, and, therefore, it would be prevented from making normal progress as an agricultural nation. Senator Grant wishes to reform the world, but I contend that our first duty is to the people of Australia, and I wish to know what this country would gain under the agreement. The Minister further stated in his secondreading speech -

It became apparent during the discussion* that whilst any effective steps to increase production and consumption must be taken by national governments, national action would require international co-ordination. Increased production in one country without increased consumption, throughout the world, or greatly increased national production in one commodity alone, would lead to severe economic difficulty .for agricultural producers.

That statement is sound, but it leads us to the contention which I have already indicated, that Australia is expected to hand over its destiny to an outside organization which could control our agricultural future, and completely prevent us from advancing in the production of all those commodities on which we pride ourselves. The agreement provides that the organization shall, where appropriate, recommend the adoption of international policies with respect to agricultural commodity arrangements. That implies that the organization may exercise control with regard to Australia’s future commitments.

It could say to those controlling the sugar industry of Queensland, “ Java and Fiji can produce good sugar with black labour, and, therefore, youpeople in Queensland must curtail your production of sugar “. It would be well for honorable senators to appreciate the fact that that is the kind of agreement which we are asked to accept. Before finally committing ourselves to it, we should not be led awayby feelings of international brotherhood which may result in disaster even for those who wish well of Australia. The British Commonwealth of Nations can do much to help the poorer people of other countries to enjoy an improved stand ard of living, but in doing that I am not willing to take steps to reduce the living standards of our own people. Out of the 45 countries eligible for membership of the organization, the people of 27 of them are of a distinctly brunette complexion.

If the organization decides to adopt a. new policy, effect can be given to it by a two-thirds majority of the votes cast, and a similar majority is sufficient tosecure an amendment of the constitution.

Senator J B Hayes:

– The money will have to be voted each year ?

Senator ASHLEY:

– Yes. If after five years, Australia should decide that its continuance as a member of the organization is inimical to the best interests of this country, it can withdraw from membership by giving one year’s notice. In view of the laudable objectives of the measure, surely it is worth our while to give the proposal a five years trial not only in our own interests but also to improve world conditions generally. We should not forget that millions of starving people in the Far East will have to be fed after this war; and that fact is important not only to those people themselves but also to Australia, bearing in mind our necessity to market our surplus products.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 (Approval of acceptance of Constitution) .

Senator HERBERT HAYS:
Tasmania

– Should we agree to this clause before we consider the schedule, it will not be competent for us to amend the schedule. Therefore, the clause should be postponed until after the schedule has been considered.

Senator Ashley:

– I have no objection to the clause being postponed.

Clause postponed until after consideration of schedule.

Clause 5 agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Postponed clause 4 agreed to.

Preamble and title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

page 2197

ADJOURNMENT

Allied Works Council: Butlers Gorge Works - Patent Medicines - Western Australian Shipping Service

Motion (by Senator Ashley) proposed -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Senator AYLETT:
Tasmania

– I am aware that a Minister is not compelled to answer questions asked ‘by honorable senators. At the same time, [ can see no reason why any Minister should give an offensive answer to an intelligent question asked ;by an honorable senator in a polite way. Last week, [ directed two questions to the Minister for the Interior (‘Senator Collings), and [ notice that two questions which were asked, upon notice, to-day in relation to the same matter hy honorable senators opposite have been answered by the Minister. My .first question was -

Will the Minister for the Interior inform the Senate whether the men employed by the Allied Works Council are all paid on the same basis? I understand that at the Butler’s Gorge job, in Tasmania, the employees receive His. 6d. a week less than the rates observed on the council’s jobs on the mainland of Australia.

Every honorable senator will agree that that question was reasonable. The Minister replied to it as follows: -

I regret that I am unable to understand the honorable senator’s question, but, if he will see me later, I shall be glad to explain the position to him and give to him all of the information which he desires.

Although the Minister said that he could not understand the question, he added that if I saw him later in his office he would give me the information. Therefore, he must have understood my question. The second question I directed to the Minister was -

Will the Minister make a statement at an early date as to the reason why employees of the council in Tasmania receive less than those on the mainland? Will he also state the rates of pay received by employees at Butler’s Gorge, and give particulars of any deductions made from their wages?

Honorable senators will agree that that question also was reasonable. The Minister replied to it as follows: -

I have no intention to make a statement ulong the lines indicated by the honorable senator. If he will see me later, I shall try to help him to understand the situation. At present, I shall not prejudice the satisfactory carrying out of works in Tasmania or elsewhere by attempting to answer a question which I do not understand.

I fail to see how by answering that, question the Minister would prejudice the carrying out the particular job in Tasmania to which it refers. The Minister also said that he would not make any statement concerning the rates of pay of employees of the Allied Works Council on jobs on the mainland and those of employees of the same body employed on jobs in Tasmania.

Senator Collings:

– I did not say anything of the kind.

Senator AYLETT:

– I am quoting the Minister’s reply as recorded in the Hansard proof. I have only the Mansard proof to rely upon, because I am apt to misunderstand the Minister when he is making a speech. I submit that I am entitled to know whether it is a fact that 16s. 6d. a week is deducted from the wages of men employed by the Allied Works Council at Butler’s Gorge in Tasmania, whereas that amount is not deducted from the wages of employees of the council engaged on jobs on the mainland. Employees of the Allied Works Council on the mainland who volunteer for transfer to Tasmania are given a statement to sign and hand in before the application for such transfer will be considered. That statement sets out that the applicant is willing to accept the following conditions : -

Wages, sick-leave conditions and leave benefits the same as O’Mara award of 5th March, 1943. but charge of 16s. 6d. per week for messing be deducted from wages. Applicant must have served in Northern Territory for at least five .months and must state in application he is aware of iris. 6d. per week and is prepared to pay it.

That information was supplied to me by a secretary of a union, but I considered that the best authority I could consult on the matter was the fountain-head himself. I have asked the fountain-head to give me the facts, and he has replied that he has no intention of making a statement on the matter, that he could not understand my question, but should I come to his office he would explain the matter.

Senator Sampson:

– Did the honorable senator call at the Minister’s office?

Senator AYLETT:

– Of course not; and I have my reasons for not doing so. In view of the fact that the Minister’s answers to me on this matter have been offensive, but, at the same time, he has given reasonable answers to questions asked by honorable senators opposite on the same subject, I am at a loss to know whether he entertains any prejudice against me. I recall remarks which I made in this chamber during the last sessional period upon a matter referred to me by a number of employees engaged in the department controlled by the Minister; and, later, the Minister, referring to my remarks, was reported in the press, and I understand in Mansard also, as saying -

I have been in touch with my departmental officers since Senator Aylett made his allegations and I can now say that they are slanderous and untrue. He only makes them within the privilege of this chamber. He would not make them outside.

I accept the Minister’s challenge, and am prepared to repeat what I said before, and will repeat outside what I say here to-night, in his presence, if he desires me to do so. I have repeated it outside before, and will do so again. A little further on mention is made of another question that I ‘raised. I gave the Minister a petition which I received from members of the Allied Works Council, and also complaints which I received from them regarding the treatment which they received on their journey to the north. They said that for four weeks they were sitting around doing nothing, but receiving full pay as waiting time. That was signed by 39 employees. The Minister’s reply was that there was no foundation whatever for it. One of the complaints made was as follows: -

After detraining at Alice Springs we spent the night at the staging camp there; at this camp we were forced to sleep on the bare gravel floor of a particularly draughty hut; we feel that, after a very fatiguing journey of approximately 1,000 miles from Adelaide alone, the least we could have expected, to assist us to get some measure of sleep, was to have been issued with a palliasse for each man.

The Minister replied-

Some thousands of men have been transported along this route, under conditions exactly identical with those complained of in this correspondence, and complaints have been almost negligible. In fact, occasionally members take the trouble to write stating how much they have enjoyed the trip, and I attach herewith a copy of a letter recently received by me from the staff of this directorate which expresses this view.

That is the reply from Mr. Theodore sent to me by the Minister. He also admitted that the men were forced to sleep on the bare gravel floor in draughty huts, while they were on a long journey. They were men who were not used to roughing it, who had not been hardened up, and had been taken from all classes of jobs, so that the department is only asking for trouble when it treats them in that way. As there have been thousands of men transported over this route, and this has been going on for two or three years, the least, the Minister in charge of the depart- ment could do would be to provide better treatment for the men. Even in the Army it is only in an emergency or in a hardening-up course that men are asked to sleep on the bare ground. The American Army provides its men with palliasses. The Minister also says that there is no foundation for the men’s allegation that they were paid for weeks on waiting time. Another petition has reached me, for which I did not ask, but which states that there are 46 men at present at the camp on waiting time. Reference is made to the report in the press of the statement I made in the Senate, every word of which the writer says is correct, but that I had only touched the fringe of it. The statement is signed by another 35 men, all of whom happen to be Tasmanians. It is stated that many Western Australians are also there on waiting time. They did not sign the petition because they are waiting to be returned home. The 35 and the 39 previously mentioned make 74. I am forced into the position of believing either those 74 Tasmanians with no axe at all to grind, but only wanting to serve their country as men should do, or the Minister. I say frankly that judging by the numerous letters J. have had, and extracts which I can quote, I prefer to believe the 74 Tasmanians. The reason why the Minister probably does not want to disclose the information I have given, that 16s. 6d. is deducted from the men’s pay if they go to an Allied Works Council job in Tasmania, is so as few Tasmanians as possible will return to Tasmania. Hundreds have been kept on jobs in the north, not in. battle areas, while hundreds of aliens have been brought from the same camps in the same districts to Tasmania, and put on the Butler’s Gorge job.

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– There is a reason for it.

Senator AYLETT:

– I know the reason the Minister will give. He will say that a committee has been going round the Allied Works Council jobs and has reported most favorably on all of them. He will say that the jobs are a credit to Australia. The letters I have had do not complain about the jobs which the Allied Works Council has done. They say that the council has done good work, but they complain about what they call maladministration, waste of money, and men sitting around when they should be at work. Are the men who wrote those statements, and are prepared to sign affidavits, or to swear to them in court, all liars, or are they not? I passed some remarks before about some of the Allied Works Council’s administrators. Among others I mentioned a Mr. Somers. These are the exact words in a letter which I have received -

I tried to put my case’ to Mr. Somers, but he refused me the courtesy of meeting him. I know of nothing worse than to be treated thus, and I think it is doing the Governmentimmense damage by tolerating such bureaucrats.

T adhere to all that I have said, and accept the Minister’s challenge to repeat outside what I have said in this chamber, or anywhere else.

Senator ARNOLD (New South Wales) [9.40 J. - Some time ago I mentioned the sale of patent medicines. The Minister for Health and Social Services (Senator Fraser) was good enough to explain that the Government was not able at the moment to do what I asked. What concerns me now is that many manufacturers of patent medicines seem to be able to spend huge sums of money on advertising and selling their preparations which are a menace to the people of this country, and to be in no way controlled. I bring the matter to the attention of the Minister who controls price fixation, and ask him to study the gross profits which these people are allowed to make. 1 have an advertisement taken from The Australasian Journal of Pharmacy, giving a description of an advertising campaign for a patent medicine called “ Lantigen “. That is a substance which I am informed by reliable chemists and doctors is of no value at all. I am told that it costs approximately 8d. a bottle to make and is sold at 21s. a bottle, which leaves a margin of about 2000 per cent, profit. Several other concoctions, concerning which I have made inquiries, show profits of from 1.000 to 1,800 per cent. In consequence of these profits the newspapers and the broadcasting stations are deluged with advertisements. The Lantigen people do not conceal the fact in any way. They set out in their advertisement that they are conducting a record advertising campaign. They say that 252 advertisements have been inserted during the month of October in leading metropolitan and country newspapers; that weekly newspapers will publish a further 34 advertisements, and the special women’s magazines another eight. They also say that 78 leading radio stations will this month broadcast between them 1,490 Lantigen announcements, and that 932 picked theatres are screening Lantigen slides. Further, they say that “ Salescompelling Lantigen films also are being screened at 120 theatres “. All this is set out plainly and bluntly to attract the Australian people to waste their money on this substance. The Government has a price-fixing department, and has, in an attempt to keep down the price level, fixed margins of profit for manufacturers. I suggest that it is wrong that the manufacturer of a useful article should be kept down to a profit margin of 10 or 12 per cent., whilst the manufacturers of a worthless substance such as these people are making are allowed to make a profit of 2,000 per cent. I therefore urge the Minister to examine the gross profits which patent medicine manufacturers are allowed to make; to assess what they are spending on advertising, and to see that they are kept within the reasonable levels which other manufacturers have to observe. Will the Minister also, where he finds that they are making these huge profits, reduce their prices to a reasonable level?

Senator COLLINGS:
QueenslandMinister for the Interior · ALP

– In recent days, I seem to have achieved a considerable measure of notoriety, if not fame. I assure Senator Aylett that he flatters himself too much when he suggests that in any replies which I have given to him in this chamber I have been actuated by a dislike of him. The honorable senator does not come into my perspective in any way whatsoever. When become so mean that I have to depend upon his good opinion, I shall start to doubt myself-, so far, I have complete confidence in myself.

Senator Aylett says now that he accepts the challenge which I threw out to him some weeks ago. I do not know exactly how long it is since I made that challenge, but certainly it was some weeks ago, because it was during the last sessional period. The honorable senator’s acceptance of the challenge is rather late. Of course, one of the courageous things which cowards have done frequently in the course of history is to accept challenges when the time for doing anything about them has passed. Senator Aylett said also that he did not ask for any of the complaints which he received. I am not in a position to say whether or not that is so, but I do say that quite obviously he is willing to become the sewer through which the individuals to whom he has referred are able to pour their vomit in order that he may confront me with it. The inferences which he attempted to draw are quite untrue. Further, I say that the honorable senator knows them to be untrue, and that he is maliciously making false statements, because for some reason or other he does not approve the Minister for the Interior. The Butler’s Gorge job in Tasmania has a very interesting history. Tasmania, of course, has greater hydroelectric potentialities than any other part of Australia, and the Government of Tasmania, which, incidentally, happens to be a Labour government, is very anxious to develop the Butler’s Gorge scheme. It arranged with the organization that aliens should be sent to Tasmania to do this work. That was done, but when the aliens started work, certain union officials took exception to them despite the fact that their organizations were unable to supply the requisite labour, and that all the labour which the unions could supply was welcomed on the job. Certain union officials refused to allow their members to work with the aliens, and the Allied Works Council, which had on hand a considerable quantity of highpriority work for the Civilian Alien Corps - we did not want the Butler’s Gorge job in the first place, and, in fact, were exceedingly glad to be relieved of it so that aliens could be used elsewhere in Australia - withdrew from the job. The aliens were detailed for service in various parts of Australia where much valuable work has been done. I had occasion to go to Tasmania some time ago. I cannot say exactly when it was, but it was in winter-time because I remember being in a blizzard on the road up to Mount Wellington. I conferred with the Premier of Tasmania, and discussed with him the difficulty that had arisen because of the refusal of certain unionists to work with aliens on the Butler’s Gorge job. The Premier said that he was anxious that the job should be proceeded with. I said to him, “Let me know what you require. If you want the job done and your Cabinet supports you in having the alien labour sent back to Tasmania, we shall do our best to facilitate the recommencement of work at Butler’s Gorge “.

When I told Senator Aylett a few days ago that I declined to answer questions which I did not understand, and when 3 told him later that I would not make a statement on the lines suggested by him, I was actuated by important motives : First, I did not think that a responsible Minister of the Crown should answer a question unless he understands it thoroughly, and in this case I did nol understand it. That, of course, was due not to any incapacity on the part of the honorable senator to express himself adequately, but to the fact that I am so dense that I cannot understand oratory of the kind of which the honorable senator is capable. Although I did not answer the question, I did what I thought was the proper thing to do. I said, “ If Senator Aylett will see me in my room, I shall endeavour to give him all the information that is at my disposal “. To-night, I had to absent myself from the chamber to take part in a function held in another part of the Australian Capital Territory which

felt it my duty to attend, and Senator Aylett, with that valour which is always the distinguishing characteristic of the supreme coward, finding that I was absent, seized upon the occasion to slander me. However, I had returned to this building to do some work in my office, and unfortunately for Senator Aylett, I was advised immediately he began his campaign of lying.

Senator Aylett:

– I waited some time expecting the Minister to enter the chamber.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. Gordon Brown) . - Order ! The Minister’s language is unparliamentary.

Senator COLLINGS:

– If you desire, Mr. President, that I should withdraw the statement, I do so. However, I still say that the honorable senator’s statements were maliciously false. ‘

The PRESIDENT:

– Order ! The Minister is not entitled to say that any honorable senator has made maliciously false statements. That language is unparliamentary.

Senator COLLINGS:

– I say then that the statements, if not maliciously untrue, are at least untrue. The second charge which Senator Aylett made against ‘me was that I would not make a statement on the lines which he indicated. I point out that Senator Aylett has not seen me in my room, as he was invited to do, and [ say further that, whatever the honorable senator may insinuate, whenever he has desired to see me in my room he has done so. I have never had a cross word with him in my room. I have investigated every case which he has submitted to me, and if I have not given him the answers which he desired, at least I have given him truthful answers and proper reasons why he could not have the answers which he desired. I did not make the statement which Senator Aylett said that I should make, because I did not wish to prejudice the progress of the Butler’s Gorge job. That work is going ahead now without difficulty, despite the fact that Senator Aylett and his informers are evidently anxious to recreate the trouble which originated when I first sent the aliens to Tasmania to do the job, and which has been settled satisfactorily. I do not know where Senator Aylett stands with the Labour Government of Tasmania, but I do know that the Premier of Tasmania has no sympathy whatever with the tactics that have been adopted by the honorable senator in this matter. The Premier is most anxious to have the Butler’s Gorge job completed, and it is going on in spite of Senator Aylett.

With regard to the charges which Senator Aylett has made, I still do not understand them. However, I shall peruse the Ilansard proofs to-morrow. I shall not invite Senator Aylett to my room again, and he will not be received there so long as I am Minister for the Interior. At least I have a measure of self-respect left, and I do not propose to contaminate myself in that manner.

Members of the Civilian Alien Corps working on the Butler’s Gorge job are receiving higher wages than members of that corps engaged on any other job in Australia. Because of the nature of the work, and the importance of the project to Tasmania, I was able to get better term for these workers.

I have no apologies to offer. I had intended to impound the documents from which Senator Aylett quoted in accordance with Standing Order 364, but, unfortunately, Mr. President did not see me rise and in the meantime, some other honorable senator having been called, I have lost my right to ask for the impressment of the documents, because the Standing Order provides that such a request must be made immediately the honorable senator making the charges resumes his seat.

So far as I am concerned the incident has now ended. I have had an opportunity to acquaint the Senate of the facts of this matter. My conduct has been quite proper from beginning to end. I have nothing to apologize for, and I hope that during the time that I remain a member of this chamber I shall not on any occasion sink so low as to have to apologize to the type of individual who has impugned me to-night.

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Western Australia

– I bring to the notice of the Senate a matter which was discussed at some length during the recent visit to Western Australia of the Minister for Trade and Customs (Senator Keane). As the result of the Minister’s visit quite a number of anomalies were adjusted, but the matter to which I wish to refer is still awaiting a satisfactory solution. I refer to the reduced shipping service from the eastern seaboard to Western Australia. During discussions with the Minister for Trade and Customs we found that many of our difficulties in relation to the provision of household commodities were due to lack of shipping. I pointedout at the time to the Minister for Trade and Customs that the latest figures obtainable in Fremantle showed a substantial reduction in the tonnage of cargo shipped from the eastern States to Western Australia over a given period. The quantity of general cargo conveyed there from the eastern States, principally Melbourne, during the six months ended the 30th June, 1943, was180,996 tons, and the quantity shipped during the six months ended the 30th June, 1944, had decreased to 123,903 tons, showing a reduction of 57,093 tons. That is a large decrease of trade for Western Australia, particularly as it applies to the importation of ordinary household commodities. I should like the Government to ascertain if this bottleneck can be eliminatedby placing another vessel on the Western Australian run. I also suggest that Port Adelaide should be reinstated in the usual interstate itinerary. I understand that the inter- state ships do not now call at Port Adelaide. That was my personal experience recently. Formerly, a considerable tonnage of household commodities, particularly kitchen utensils, was lifted at Port Adelaide. Articles of that kind a re in keen demand in Western Australia, especially among young married couples. For the last eighteen months or so, the shortage of those commodities has been acute. Other articles which are in short supply are plumbers’ accessories. I was recently informed in Perth that it was practically impossible for plumbers to obtain their main supplies, such as galvanized iron for the manufacture of guttering and downpipes. Shortages of that kind cause misunderstanding, but I believe that, if due consideration were given to the needs of the people of Western Australia, those difficulties could be removed.

Senator FRASER:
Minister for Health and Minister for Social Services · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– Some time ago, as Assistant Minister for Supply and Shipping, I set up a priorities committee in Western Australia (because nonessential goods were being shipped there to the exclusion of necessary commodities. I shall ascertain whether the present shipping position can be improved, but that depends upon many factors, including operational requirements. The Priorities Committee still communicates with me regularly. The Minister for Works in Western Australia furnishes me with a list of goods required in that State and entitled to a high priority, and they have first call on the available space. The operations of that committee are giving satisfactory results. Some of the difficulty referred to by the honorable senator is due to the fact that the goods required are not available. If manufacturers find a strong market for their goods in Sydney and Melbourne, they may not trouble much about selling them in Western Australia. The policy of the Government has been to furnish sufficient man-power in Western Australia for the manufacture of goods in that State to the full capacity of the local factories. It is not always possible for interstate vessels to call at Port Adelaide, but I shall see if that can be arranged, and if any other improvement of the shipping position can be effected.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 2202

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Lands Acquisition Act - Land acquired - For Commonwealth purposes - Tocumwal, New South Wales.

National Security Act -

National Security (General) Regulations - Orders -

Disposal of dead bodies.

Taking possession of land, &c. (23).

Use of land.

National Security (Man Power) Regula tions - Orders - Protected undertakings (51).

National Security (Potatoes) Regulations - Order No. 18.

National Security (Shipping Coordination) Regulations - Order No. 75.

Senate adjourned at 10.7 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 28 November 1944, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1944/19441128_senate_17_180/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

Senate28 November 1944

UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND REHABILITATION ADMINISTRATION BILL 1944

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Senator GIBSON:VICTORIA

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

QUESTION

BROADCASTING

Senator SAMPSON:TASMANIA

Senator ASHLEY:Postmaster-General · NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

CIVIL AVIATION

Service to Tasmania

Senator ASHLEY:ALP

QUESTION

RAIL TRAVEL PRIORITIES

Senator TANGNEY:WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator COLLINGS:Minister for the Interior · QUEENSLAND · ALP

QUESTION

APPLES AND PEARS

Senator HERBERT HAYS:TASMANIA

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

QUESTION

FLAX

Senator LECKIE:VICTORIA

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

COMMONWEALTH RAILWAYS

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon Gordon Brown:QUEENSLAND

Senator LECKIE:Victoria

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Ashley:

Senator Leckie:

Senator Ashley:

Senator Leckie:

Senator McKenna:

Senator McLeay:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Ashley:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Ashley:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Leckie:

Senator McLeay:

Senator Leckie:

Senator Cameron:

Senator Leckie:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Leckie:

Senator Large:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator Leckie:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator LAMP:TASMANIA · ALP

Senator Leckie:

Senator Ashley:

Senator McLeay:

Senator Sheehan:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator McLeay:

Senator Ashley:

Senator McLeay:

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator Grant:

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator Sheehan:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator McLeay:

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator Grant:

The PRESIDENT:

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator McLeay:

Senator FRASER:WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator Finlay:

The PRESIDENT:

QUESTION

ALLIED WORKS COUNCIL

Senator O’FLAHERTY:SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator COLLINGS:ALP

Senate
28 November 1944

Senator GIBSON:
VICTORIA

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator SAMPSON:
TASMANIA

Senator ASHLEY:
Postmaster-General · NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator TANGNEY:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator COLLINGS:
Minister for the Interior · QUEENSLAND · ALP

Senator HERBERT HAYS:
TASMANIA

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator LECKIE:
VICTORIA

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon Gordon Brown:
QUEENSLAND

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

Senator LAMP:
TASMANIA · ALP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator O’FLAHERTY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Senator COLLINGS:
ALP

Senator SAMPSON:
TASMANIA · NAT; UAP from 1931; LP from 1944

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator FOLL:
through Senator James McLachlan

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator COLLETT:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator ASHLEY:
ALP

Senator BRAND:
VICTORIA

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator CAMERON:
ALP

Senator O’FLAHERTY:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator JAMES McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · UAP

Senator J, B HAYES:
Tasmania

Senator J B HAYES:
TASMANIA

Senator COURTICE:
Queensland