Senate
27 September 1938

15th Parliament · 1st Session



The President (Senator the Hon.J. B. Hayes) took thechair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 190

TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES

The PRESIDENT:

– I have received a letter from . Senator Keane resigning his position as a Temporary Chairman of Committees.

page 190

COMMITTEE OF DISPUTED RETURNS AND QUALIFICATIONS

The PRESIDENT:

– I lay on the table my warrant appointing members tofill the vacancies existing on the Committee of Disputed Returns and Qualifications. Pursuant to Standing Order 38 I hereby appoint Senators Abbott, Armstrong and Courtice to fill those vacancies.

page 190

REGULATIONS AND ORDINANCES COMMITTEE

The PRESIDENT:

– I have received letters from Senator A.J. McLachlan nominating Senator Wilson to fill one of the vacancies, and from Senator Collings, nominating Senators Armstrong, Cameron and Clothier, to fill three of the vacancies existing on the Standing Committee on Regulation’s and Ordinances.

Motion (by Senator A. J. McLachlan) - by leave - agreed to -

That Senators Ashley, Courtice and Cunningham be discharged from- attendance on the Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances, and that Senators Armstrong, Cameron, Clothier and Wilson, having been duly nominated under Standing Order 36a, beappointed tofill the vacancies on the committee.

page 191

QUESTION

DEFENCE OFFICERS’ QUARTERS AT DARWIN

Senator BROWN:
QUEENSLAND

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Defence inform the Senate who are the “brass hats “ responsible for taking over half of the town of Darwin, whether it was necessary to acquire so much land for the purpose of erecting defence officers’ quarters, and what is the estimated cost of the resumption?

Senator FOLL:
Minister for Repatriation · QUEENSLAND · UAP

– I have no idea what the honorable senator means by the term “ brass hats”, but if he will couch his question in proper terras, and place it on the notice-paper, an answer will be supplied to him.

Senator Brown:

– I shall be pleased to frame the question in such simple language that even a troglodyte like Senator Foll will be able to understand it.

page 191

QUESTION

YAMPI SOUND IRON ORE DEPOSITS

Senator E B JOHNSTON:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked . the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice - 1.. What is the position in regard to the investigation of the iron ore resources of the Commonwealth ?

  1. How much money has the Commonwealth Government so far spent in regard to the work in progress at Yampi Sound?
  2. What further sums does the Commonwealth expect to spend in regard to its survey of the iron ore deposits at Yampi?
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Prime Ministerhas supplied the following answers : -

  1. Investigations ure proceeding in the various States with the object of ascertaining their iron ore resources. The investigation in South Australia is being undertaken by the Government of South Australia and considerable progresshas been made. Investigations are proceeding in New South Wales and Western Australia, and are being carried out by the State Mines Departments on behalf of the Commonwealth. Preliminary investigations are being undertaken in Victoria. Queensland and Tasmania. 2 and 3. The information is being obtained.

page 191

QUESTION

HOME-CONSUMPTION PRICE FOR WHEAT

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce, upon notice -

What decisions have been arrived at by the Com mon wealth and State Governments in regard to the provision of a home-consumption price for wheat?

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
Minister without portfolio assisting the Minister for Commerce · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP

– The Minister for Commerce has supplied the following answer: -

The State Governments have agreed to fix the price of flour on the basis of a homeconsumption price for wheat at 4s. 8d. at sidings. They have asked that the Commonwealth introduce supplementary legislation under its excise powers to collect the difference between the price of flour on the basis of world parity price for flour and the fixed price. The Commonwealth has agreed to do this.

page 191

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Appointment of Mr. Tart

Senator BRAND:
VICTORIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

In connexion with the recent appointment of Mr. Tart as publicity officer for the Defence Department -

How many returned soldier applicants wore there?

How many returned soldiers were in the final panel of five?

Was the appointment made by the Commonwealth Public Service Board; if so, why was the Government’s policy of preference to returned soldiers not adhered to?

Is the appointment temporary?

Senator FOLL:
UAP

– The Minister for Defence has supplied the following answers : -

  1. . Twenty-four.
  2. One.
  3. Application was made to the Public Service Board for a certificate of exemption from the provisions of the Public Service Act for a period not exceeding twelve months. The Public Service Board, after consideration of the papers, made a recommendation accordingly for the approval of the Executive Council. No returned soldier was considered to possess the qualifications required for the position.
  4. Yes.

page 191

QUESTION

ASSISTANCE TO PROSPECTORS

Senator CUNNINGHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

  1. What amount of financial assistance has the Government paid to prospectors for gold. and other minerals, within Federal Territories (exclusive of New Guinea) for the past six months ?
  2. What is the number of parties now in receipt of federal financial assistance within Federal Territories, exclusive of New Guinea?
  3. What financial arrangements, if any, have been made between the Federal and State Governments for the purpose of assisting prospectors for minerals within the States of the Commonwealth?
Senator ALLAN MACDONALD:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA · UAP; LP from 1944

– The information is being obtained.

page 192

QUESTION

WHEAT AND WOOL INDUSTRIES

Financial Assistance in Western Australia.

Senator E B JOHNSTON:

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Has the attention of the Government been called to the adverse climatic conditions prevailing in the north-eastern wheat districts of Western Australia?
  2. Has assistance been requested for the settlers in that locality on an acreage basis, on the grounds that a bushel bounty would give practically nothing to many settlers, who will have very little marketable wheat?
  3. What action has been decided upon for the assistance of these settlers, and others similarly situated?
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Prime Minister has supplied the following answers: - l and 2. Yes, in a communication from the Koorda Road Board, Koorda, Western Australia, recently transmitted to the Prime Minister by the honorable senator.

  1. It has not yet been possible to give consideration to the representations made.
Senator CUNNINGHAM:

asked the Minister representing the Treasurer, upon notice -

What ‘arrangements, if any, has the Government made to assist financially both the wheat and wool-growers of Western Australia who have suffered loss of income as a result of drought conditions during the 1938-39 season?

Senator FOLL:
UAP

– The Treasurer has supplied the following answer : -

On a number of previous occasions the Government has expressed its regret that it is unable to agree to any departure from the policy previously followed, viz., that relief to primary producers from the effects of drought is the responsibility of the State Governments.

Losses from drought, etc., are suffered in some portion of one or more of the States almost every year and. whilst the Government has every sympathy with the plight of those who are suffering from the effects of drought, it feels that the only course for the Commonwealth is to leave the question of drought relief for the States themselves to deal with. This has been the policy since Federation.

page 192

QUESTION

TASMANIA AND MAINLAND

Two-way Telephone Service.

Senator AYLETT:
TASMANIA

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

In view of the breakdowns in the cable in the past, and to meet future emergencies, will the Postmaster-General give consideration to the establishment of a two-way wireless telephone service between Tasmania and the mainland ?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Experimental work has been in progress over a long period with a view to the ultimate establishment of radio telephone communication between the mainland and Tasmania, and it will doubtless be recollected that, during the period when the telephone cable was interrupted, a certain amount of telephone traffic was disposed of by means of the emergency radio link. This service is being developed principally as a standby to meet any other emergency which may arise.

page 192

QUESTION

LINEMEN

Transport

Senator AYLETT:

asked the Post master-General, upon notice -

Is it a fact that public servants (linemen) in the Postmaster-General’s Department, when on duty, are compelled to travel at their own risk when proceeding by air; if so, will he endeavour to give them the same protection against accidents as they receive when travelling by train or motor bus; if not, why not?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– It is not a fact that linemen in the PostmasterGeneral’s Department are compelled to travel by air.

page 192

QUESTION

SENATE ELECTIONS

Senator AYLETT:

asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate, upon notice -

In the event of a Senate election being held nine months before the seats become vacant, and a double dissolution occurring in the meantime, would senators-elect (if any) be obliged to contest the election?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– It is not the practice to answer questions that call for an expression of a Minister’s opinion on a matter of law.

page 193

QUESTION

CITRUS-FRUIT PRODUCTION

Senator AYLETT:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce, upon notice -

Has the acreage of the citrus-growers increased since the first bounty was paid to them; if so, by how much?

Senator ALLAN MacDONALD:
UAP

– The Minister for Commerce has supplied the following answer: -

No. There has been a slight decrease.

page 193

QUESTION

FLOATING DOCK IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Senator FRASER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, vpon notice -

  1. Has any consideration been given to the advisability or otherwise of a floating dock for any one of the ports in Western Australia?
  2. if consideration has been given to this question, what decisionhas been reached?
Senator FOLL:
UAP

– The Minister for Defence has supplied the following answer: - 1 and 2. A deputation on this matter was received by the former Minister for Defence at Fremantle in 1035, and was informed that, from a naval point of view, either a dry dock or a floating dock located at Fremantle would, if it were of suitable dimensions, be an undoubted advantage to the Commonwealth, but that the construction of docks was primarily a question for the State governments and the commercial interests concerned.

page 193

QUESTION

HOURS OF LABOUR

Senator CLOTHIER:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minis ter representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it the intention of the Prime Minister to convene a conference representative of the Federal and State Governments for the purpose of enacting a 40-hour week in industry throughout Australia?
  2. If so, when and where will the proposed conference be held?
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Prime Minister has supplied the following answers :; -

  1. The general question of the introduction of a 40-hour week was discussed at a conference of Commonwealth and State Ministers which met at Canberra on the 13th August, 1937, when the conference rejected by f our votes to three a . resolution affirming the necessity for the early introduction by the Commonwealth and the States of legislation designed to provide for a national 40-hour week. The Government considers that before there can be any general adoption of shorterhours in Australia the full facts regarding the economic effects must be ascertained and that the matter must in the first instance be fully examined by a properly constituted tribunal. As previously announced, the Government would be prepared to do anything in its power to facilitate the determination by the Commonwealth Court of Conciliation and Arbitration of the question of a shorter working week.
  2. See reply to No. 1.

page 193

QUESTION

MIDLAND JUNCTION RAILWAY WORKSHOPS

Manufacture of Munitions

Senator CLOTHIER:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. What action has the Minister taken concerning the utilizing of the State Railway Department’s Midland Workshops with reference to the manufacture . of munitions in Western Australia?
  2. Has the State Government been consulted in this regard?
  3. If so, has the basis ofan agreement been arrived at?
Senator FOLL:
UAP

– The Minister for Defence has supplied the following answers : -

  1. A conference recently took place at Melbourne between the representatives of the State Government and the Defence Department at which the question of the utilization of these workshops was examined.
  2. Yes.
  3. The report of the conference is now being considered.

page 193

QUESTION

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

Wireless Broadcasting

Senator KEANE:
VICTORIA

asked the Post master-General, upon notice -

  1. . Is there any truth in the newspaper report that the Postmaster-General has withdrawn permission for certain news flashes on the European crisis to be broadcast in Australia?
  2. Is it a fact that the rest of the Empire will receive this news service at regular intervals during a critical time in world history, but that the people of Australia areto be debarred from this privilege?
  3. If the British Empire Station at Daventry broadcasts these important statements, will the Commonwealth Government see that the Australian people are not denied the information contained in them?
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The answers to the honorable senator’s questions are as follows: -

  1. The. British official news bulletin, which is broadcast by the British Broadcasting Corporation, is available for use in Australia, but there is a supplementary service supplied by Reuters which is copyright in certain countries, including Australia, and cannot therefore be retransmitted here. 2 and 3. See reply to No. . 1.

page 194

QUESTION

TOBACCO INDUSTRY

Allocations foe Research.

Senator AYLETT:

asked the Leader of the Government in the Senate, upon notice -

What amount of moneyhas been allocated to New South Wales, Queensland, and Victoria for research work inthe tobacco industry, and what consideration has been given to Tasmania for the same purpose?

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The total amount allocated to New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland for research and investigation in connexion with the tobacco industry for the five years ending . the 31st December, 1938, was £18,750 each. The allocation to Tasmania for the same period was £6,250. Consideration is now being given to the question of the allocation of funds to the States for tobacco investigations for a further period after the 31st December n ext.

page 194

QUESTION

MONETARY AND BANKING SYSTEM

Senator DARCEY:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. In view of the statement in the report of the royal commission appointed to inquire into the monetary and banking system at present in operation in Australia (section 504, page196, section, “ Creation of Credit,” sub-section, “Central Bank Credit”) : “ Because of this power, the Commonwealth Bank is able to increase the cash of the trading banks in the ways we have pointed out above. Because of this power, too, the Commonwealth Bank can . increase the cash reserves of . the trading banks; for example, it can buy securities or other property, it can lend to the governments or to others in a variety of ways, and it can even make money available to governments or to others free of any charge . . . “ - will the Prime Minister take immidiate stops to instruct the chairman of the Commonwealth Bank to issue sufficient credit to meet the cost of the adequate defence of Australia, the credit thus issued to be free of any charge except the. actual administration cost ?
  2. If for any reason the Prime Minister decides that this cannot be done, will he inform the Senate as to his reasons ?
Senator A J McLACHLAN:
SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The Prime Minister has supplied the following answers : -

  1. The Government does not propose to instruct the chairman of the Commonwealth Bankto issue credit.
  2. The main reason is that the Government is opposed to political control of banking. A further reason will be found in paragraph506 of the Royal Commission’s report.

page 194

QUESTION

BURNS, PHILP AND COMPANY

Subsidized Service to Darwin

Senator COOPER:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister representing the Minister for the Interior, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the shipping company of Messrs. Burns, Philp and Company are in receipt of a Government subsidy for the running of a shipping service between Melbourneand Darwin?
  2. If so, what is the amount of the subsidy ?
  3. For what purpose is the subsidy, if any. granted ?
  4. In view of the many travellers who are now visiting Australia from Great Britain and Europe, will the Government consider the inclusion of a clause in any new agreement, that adequate facilities be given for passengers to land in the day-time at northern ports, such as Darwin, Thursday Island, Cairns or Townsville, in order that some idea may be formed of conditions operating in the northern part of Australia?

Senator’ ALLAN MACDONALD.The Minister for the Interior has supplied the following answers to the honorable senator’s questions : -

  1. Yes.
  2. £5,500 per annum.
  3. To’ ensure a regular service between Dar - win and Melbourne and intermediate ports and to secure reduced freight rates.
  4. The representations of the honorable senator will be borne in mind, when a new agreement is being prepared in respect of this shipping service. .

page 194

QUESTION

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS

czechos lo v akia .

Senator A J McLACHLAN:
Postmaster-General · SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

. - by leave - As I indicated in the short statement which I made to the Senate yesterday, the Prime Minister had expected to be in a position to-day to make a full statement regarding the European crisis.I regret that on his behalf I am unable to make such a statement at the present moment. Certain communications, which I think should be conveyed to honorable senators when the statement is made, are passing between the Prime Minister of Australia and the Prime Minister of Great Britain. Those communications are as yet incomplete.I hope that by eight o’clock this evening I shall be able to make a complete statement regarding the international situation. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister wishes me to assure honorable senators that the Commonwealth Government is continuing to carry out its policy of giving every encouragement and support to the Prime Minister of Great Britain in his efforts to preserve the peace of Europe and of the world.

I take this opportunity to express my appreciation of the goodwill and patience which has characterized the attitude of honorable senators on all sides of the chamber in awaiting for so long a full statement by the Government on a matter which may be of vital importance, not only to’ Australia, but also to civilization itself.

Senator COLLINGS (Queensland) 3.22]. - by leave - Members of the Opposition feel that anything we may say this afternoon can no longer be deemed either to retard the efforts being made t.o prevent war, or to give any encouragement to those who apparently are anxious to see war break out. We have felt for some time that we should not make a statement on the international position, because it was suggested - and, Ave believe, rightly - that statements made at an earlier juncture might have been inadvisable. We consider, however, that the time has arrived when Ave on this side of the chamber should make our attitude regarding the difficulties on the other side of the world very plain and definite to the Australian people.

I think, Mr. President, that whatever may be our political differences in this chamber, I shall be voicing the general feeling of all honorable senators when I say that the United Kingdom Government has done all that has been humanly possible during the anxious times through which Europe has been recently passing - times still menacing world peace - to avert world war. I feel also that the position to-day is vastly different from that which existed in 1914. To-day all democracies and every true democrat, not only of the English-speaking world, but also of every other democratic nation, are definitely opposed to the policy of trying 10 settle international grievances by war.

Twenty years ago that policy was tried, with what disastrous results the whole world now realizes. The frightful waste of the flower of the world’s manhood, the cruel legacy of war - the shattered wrecks of humanity still alive in our midst, the flood of hate let loose upon a fear-racked world, the destruction of countless millions of pounds’ worth of wealth - all testify most eloquently to the futility of appeal to the arbitrament of force as a permanent solution of the world’s difficulties.

These thoughts, lead me by a process of logical reasoning to the appropriate question: “ What then is Australia’s duty in this connexion?” To this I answer, very certainly for myself and as certainly for every member of the Opposition - and I could wish, 3ir, that in this connexion I could say that I speak for the Senate as a whole - that Australia’s duty as a member of the British Commonwealth of Nations is to defend to the utmost extent of its capacity this Australian continent from invasion, or raids, by any aggressor nation, .should such unfortunately occur as a consequence of the Avar. This, I think, is the long view the broad view - and, may I say, the intelligent view - of the existing situation as it impinges upon the Australian Commonwealth. I declare now, on behalf of the Opposition, that in our opinion the whole of the man-power of Australia is essential to the proper defence of Australia, and we must sp utilize it as to make the most valuable contribution possible to the protection of world democracy. But there are obviously other ways in which Australia can, and should, assist in this fight on behalf of democracy against dictatorship. There are measures which this nation may take in common with the rest of the British Commonwealth of Nations as a definite augmentation of the powers of that great democracy. Labour then declares that we conceive it to be our duty as a self-governing sovereign entity in the group of democracies which we call the British Commonwealth of Nations to do that which is obviously not only our duty, but also our responsibility - defend Australia ; Australia with its immense coastline of more than 12,000 miles, and its 7,000,000 subjects of the British Empire.

Differences as to methods will undoubtedly arise. Differing defence policies will certainly emerge, but if we agree that democracy, as we Australians understand it, is endangered by the arrogance and cruelty of dictatorships, if we agree that Australia must, and shall, be adequately defended against foreign aggression, then it should be in no way difficult so to arrange Australia’s policy as to contribute our full quota to the solution of the problem.

It is proper also that I should declare on behalf of the Opposition in this chamber that we believe that to raise forces for service outside Australia is not a needed contribution to Empire defence, but would actually be a positive disservice to Australia and to world democracy.

page 196

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

Motion (by Senator McLeay) agreed to-

That leave of absence for one month be granted to Senator Grant on account of ill health.

Motion (by Senator McLeay) - by leave - agreed to -

That leave of absence for one month be granted to Senator Gibson on account of ill health.

page 196

SESSIONAL COMMITTEES

Motions (by Senator A. J. McLach- lan) agreed to -

That Senators Ashley and J. B. Hayes be discharged from attendance on the Printing Committee, and that Senators Aylett, Cunningham, Dein and Johnston be appointed to fill the vacancies on the committee.

That Senator Brown bo discharged from attendance on the Standing Orders Committee, and that Senators Darcey, Lamp and Sheehan be appointed to fill the vacancies on the committee.

That Senators Cameron andFraser be appointed to fill the vacancies now existing on the . Library Committee.

That Senators Brown and Cunningham bo discharged from attendance on the House Committee, and that Senators Amour and Keano be appointed to fill the vacancies on the committee.

page 196

SUPPLY BILL (No. 2). 1938-39

First Reading

Debate resumed from the 26th September (vide page 189), on motion by Senator Foll -

That the bill be now read a first time.

Senator LECKIE:
Victoria

– After the statement on the international situation just made by the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings), I find it difficult to get down to ordinary matters and debate in the same strain as yesterday the bill now before the Senate. While the world is under the shadow of a great tragedy it is difficult to . assess properly the minor grievances.

I desire, at the outset, to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition on the fine array of “ back-seat drivers “ that he has behind him. Yesterday, the honorable gentleman was unusually modest in his speech. ‘

Senator Brown:

– I am not a” backseat driver.”

Senator LECKIE:

– The Leader of the Opposition endeavoured to convey the impression that he had had a bad time when only three of his party opposed the phalanx of Government supporters. I can assure his new colleagues that, in that respect at least, their leader was never modest; or, ifhe was modest, that he utterly deceived us. I assure them that “ the dauntless three “ who, as it were, “ kept the bridge in the brave days of old “ - Senators Collings and Brown and the late Senator J. V. MacDonald - and, later, Senators Courtice, Ashley and Cunningham also, upheld to the full the dignity and credit of the Opposition. It- was somewhat astonishing therefore, to find SenatorCollings so moderate yesterday when ho had the support of reinforcements.

Senator Collings:

– From now. on we are going to do things.

Senator LECKIE:

– Yesterday’s proceedings suggested that new member’s of the Opposition believe that proceedings in the Senate follow the usual practice of debating societies with speakers from opposite sides addressing the chamber alternately. If I may say so, they. displayed a delightful conceit, because evidently they were of the opinion that they said many new things which senators of greater experience had never heard before. I can assure them that nothing was said in this chamber yesterday that had not been said often, and better, on many previous occasions. It is very hard, Mr. President, to associate you with anything frivolous. Looking at you, in your present office which you fill with such dignity, it is difficult to believe that you ever indulged in youthful follies or playfulness; but I dare say that even you, in your younger days, indulged in that old game of throwing a stick into the water for your clog to rescue and bring back to you. Having thrown a stick into the water on a number of occasions, you probably pretended to throw it in again, with the result that the dog was deceived and jumped into the water to retrieve a stick that was not there. I felt like that dog yesterday.

Senator Ashley:

– The honorable senator looks like it.

Senator LECKIE:

– I felt yesterday that I had been induced to search in a rushing torrent of words for something that was not there. There was not even a dry stick of a new idea. Honorable senators opposite preach a gospel of discontent. If there is no discontent, they are unhappy, for only by stirring up discontent can they hope to come to power in this Parliament. If they see a man who looks happy, they say to him, “ For God’s sake, take that smile off, you have no right to be happy; don’t you know that you are miserable?”

Senator Ashley:

– The “honorable senator himself is a poor specimen of a happy man.

Senator LECKIE:

– I repeat that the gospel preached by honorable senators opposite is a gospel of discontent. Their chief aim is to make every one believe that he is unhappy and miserable when, in fact, he is not. The continual preaching of that gospel will recoil upon their own heads. Yesterday the

Leader of the Opposition, departing from his previous brave attitude, said that when the Government brought forward its proposals he would in all probability have to oppose them. The honorable senator does not know what the Government’s proposals will be, but because he is in opposition to the Government, he believes that his duty will be to oppose its proposals irrespective of their merits. Further, when referring to the coal strike, he made what for him was a remarkable statement. Referring to the attitude of the coal-miners, he used the term, “ whether they are right or wrong “. Evidently, the honorable gentleman has some doubt about the correctness of their stand. That was the first time that I had known him to have a doubt about anything.

I, however, find myself in agreement with several of the statements of the Leader of the Opposition. For instance, I agree with his remarks regarding the suspension of the Standing Orders to rush legislation through this chamber. I believe that it is in the worst interests of Parliament that legislation should be dealt with in that way. Unfortunately, rush methods have been adopted too much in the past. I was, therefore, glad to hear the Leader of the Senate say yesterday that such methods would not be adopted in the future, except where they were absolutely necessary.

I also object to the sudden calling of honorable senators to Canberra on Monday without adequate reason. Senators are ordinary human beings, with family and business obligations. They have a right to know on what days of the week their presence at the Seat of Government will be required, in order that they make arrangements accordingly. It is not right that honorable senators, after having made arrangements for meetings, or to attend to private business, should be summoned at short notice to Canberra, except in cases of absolute necessity. I hope that future arrangements for the meeting of the Senate will be more satisfactory.

Although I have remarked that nothing was said by honorable senators opposite yesterday that had not been said before and said better, nevertheless some delightfully interesting observations were made. For . instance the speech on banking by Senator Darcey was an entertainment, but I suggest that a man who searches history as far back as William of Orange, and thinks that banking principles in vogue 400 years ago can be applied to present-day conditions, is bound to be wrong. There was also delightful illogicality about that quip of his that bankers do not lend money, but create credit which they make available to governments for the purpose of financing wars. At the same time the honorable gentleman appeared to believe that if governments had power to create unlimited credit without being required to pay interest wars would cease. Is that really a good argument? In effect, it implies that a Government might make war if it had to pay interest on the money which it raised, but if unlimited credit could be obtained without interest, war would not be waged. I confess that I cannot see logic in . the honorable senator’s reasoning. That was one of those delightful interludes that occurred during speeches made by honorable senators opposite yesterday, containing more amusement than erudition.

We were also indebted to Senator Amour yesterday for an entertaining talk about Bankstown in New South Wales. It is probable that some senators from other States had never heard of Bankstown until it was mentioned by Senator Amour yesterday. I am not surprised that the Postmaster-General wants £12 to install a telephone there. I feel sure that if the honorable senator were connected by telephone to the PostmasterGeneral and had many troubles to ventilate over the line, the Minister would consider £12 a very small sum as compensation for having to listen -to those grievances.

I have no doubt that honorable senators opposite are just as much against land “ boodling “ of any kind as are honorable senators on this side, but I suggest that Senator Amour should be careful about urging the construction of a new road .to the military training camps at Liverpool. I am informed that the land through which the proposed road would run was bought some time ago by speculators in the hope that the Government would, at some time in the near future, proceed with the construction of such a road, so it would almost seem that the honorable gentleman, in advocating the construction of this road, is now acting as the unconscious agent - I do not say a direct agent - of these speculators in trying to force the Government to construct Hie road through land for which the speculators will ask five or six times the price they paid. The honorable gentleman had better be careful; he may not lie aware of all the facts.

Senator Ashley:

– I wish to rise to a point of order. Senator Amour is not in Hie chamber at the moment and I con- lend that such accusations should not be made in his absence.

The PRESIDENT:
Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes

– The statement that Senator Amour was an agent of land speculators should be withdrawn.

Senator LECKIE:

– I did not say he was a direct agent; I meant that he appeared to De acting, perhaps unconsciously, as an agent of these people.

Senator Ashley:

– I again draw attention to the fact that Senator Amour is absent from the chamber. It i3 probable that the statement would not have been made if he were here.

The PRESIDENT:

– I do not think that Senator Leckie inferred that Senator Amour was a direct agent. Nevertheless, I ask him to withdraw the statement.

Senator LECKIE:

– I did not intend any such accusation, because I think it. U certain that Senator Amour is doing something which he would not do were he fully acquainted with the position.

Senator Collings:

– The Government has the power to resume land for public purposes at its own price, and so prevent any harm to the nation.

Senator LECKIE:

– That may be true. I have not full information on the subject, and until yesterday I had not heard of Bankstown.

Senator Armstrong:

– Tell us something about soldier settlement purchases.

Senator LECKIE:

– I expect the honorable senator who has just interjected has some grievances to ventilate in that respect; if so, no doubt he will bring them before this chamber. I do not profess to be defending the Government in this connexion, I am criticizing, in a general way, proposals for which the Supply Bill makes provision; and, in passing, am referring to statements made by honorable senators opposite.

T turn now to a matter raised by Senator Cameron - the problem of unemployment. The honorable gentleman proved, to his own satisfaction at all events, that the unemployment figures issued by the Commonwealth Statistician were wrong. He said that the Commonwealth Government has not done anything to relieve unemployment. The facts are against him. In 1931-32, according to returns issued bythe Commonwealth Statistician, 30 per cent, of the working class population was unemployed. To day the figure is 8.6 per cent., approximately the same as in pre-depression years. Of course it is contended by honorable senators opposite that this improvement was not due to the efforts of the Lyons Government. I maintain that much of the credit is due to the present Government. When it came into office this country was in a very bad state, but shortly afterwards, as the result of Government measures taken to deal with the depression, confidence was restored and Australia’s recovery was more rapid than that of any other country. To-day, conditions in Australia are equal to, if not better than, those obtaining in any other land. Credit for this achievement may be given grudgingly, but it is certainly due to the Lyons GovernmentConfidence overseas, and in Australia itself, was restored, and prosperity returned to this country which is now rated very high among the nations of the world.

Senator Brown:

– We are heading for another depression now.

Senator LECKIE:

– I hope that the honorable senator is wrong, but there is the unfortunate possibility that he is right.

Senator Cameron complained yesterday that we had not returned to the peak of prosperity. He endeavoured to show that prosperity has not returned. What a different story was presented to the Arbitration Court last year, when a prosperity loading was asked for, the claim being based on the fact that prosperity was to be found on all sides. That argument was presented to the tribunal which the Opposition now claims will not give to the workers a fair deal. It was claimed that the workers should receive an award commensurate with the general prosperity. The increase sought was granted.

Senator Keane:

– Then they lost more than they had gained.

Senator LECKIE:

– The plea advanced then was that general prosperity was being experienced. The conditions at the present time show no material change, yet the cry now goes up that there is no prosperity at all. The Opposition cannot have it both ways. The honorable senator also said that with increases of wages the cost of living mounts higher, but he conveniently failed to mention that, when the index figures relating to the cost of living rise, wages automatically increase accordingly.

Reference was made to the slums in Melbourne, but the slum evil is greater in other cities of the ‘Commonwealth.

Senator Brown:

– There are slums at Molonglo in the Australian Capital Territory.

Senator LECKIE:

– The shacks at Molonglo were not intended to be used for residential purposes and they should have been removed. The honorable senator sought to place all the blame for slums on the shoulders of the Commonwealth Government. He practically suggested that- the State authorities had no responsibility in the matter, and that they would quickly do away with slums if the Commonwealth would give them plenty of money. Bythe presentbudget the Commonwealth Government proposes, by increased taxation, to raise an additional £4,000,000 a year ; yet honorable senators opposite talk of the overflowing coffers of the Commonwealth Treasury. The honorable senator should place the responsibility for slums on the shoulders of the State governments. Honorable gentlemen opposite seem to forget that in four out of the six States the Labour party is in power. In three of the States it is in absolute power, and in the fourth, although not on the Treasury bench, it wields practically more power than it would if it were in absolute control of the affairs of the State.

Senator Fraser:

– In some States it is in office, but not in power.

Senator LECKIE:

– Is not Mr. Forgan Smith in power in Queensland, and Mr. Ogilvie in power in Tasmania?

Senator Keane:

– No.

Senator LECKIE:

– Is not the Labour party, in conjunction with Mr. Dunstan. in power in Victoria?

Senator Keane:

– No.

Senator LECKIE:

– In Western Australia, the Labour party has been in office for years, but what has it done to remedy the evil’s against which honorable senators opposite protest so loudly? The answer is “ nothing “. The States of Western Australia, Tasmania, and South

Australia have received substantial grants from year to year from the Commonwealth. Western Australia, of course, is not nearly so miserable a State as some of its representatives would lead us to believe. I visited it some years ago, and I regard it as a delightful part of Australia. Although in the desert areas the land is of little value, Western Australia has as much good land as Victoria has. Some of the farmers in Western Australia are poverty stricken, but many farmers in Victoria and South Australia also are very hard up. In the Mallee country, for instance, they have been kept on their holdings only by the assistance of the State governments. I do not object to the cry “ Western Australia for the Western Australians”, but it is quite a different matter to say “Australia for the Western Australians “.

The mechanization of industry was commented upon by Senator Cameron, who claimed that concurrently with progress in methods of production had come the displacement of manual labour. He presented only one side of the picture. The mechanization of industry has undoubtedly reduced the number of hewers of wood and drawers of water, but to compensate for that men are employed in manufacturing, operating and repairing automatic machinery. If dislocation is caused in one industry by the march of progress, increased employment is found in other avenues, and, in addition, modern methods of manufacture have brought into the homes of the working classes goods of various kinds which a few years ago were regarded as luxuries available exclusively to the wealthy classes. In the last few years, the number. of men employed in Australia has become greater than ever before. Throughout Australia the number of factory employees has increased in consequence of- the mechanization of industry.

Senator BROWN:

– Does the honorable senator imagine that the introduction of new labour-saving machinery will solve the problem of unemployment?

Senator LECKIE:

– As the result of modern methods of manufacture the people generally are able to enjoy to-day comforts, and even luxuries, which were undreamed of 20 or 30 years ago. Industrial progress should not be impeded. Who wishes to return to the pick and shovel days?

A new matter engaging our attention is the strike of coal-miners.

Senator CRAWFORD:
QUEENSLAND

– We have had such strikes before.

Senator LECKIE:

– Yes, and no doubt we shall have them again. The plea that has been advanced on behalf of the miners is rather an amazing one. It is said they they are the aristocrats of labour, and should have special benefits which are denied to other workers. Although ‘ first-class mechanics, fitters and turners, lithographers, and other tradesmen must go to the Arbitration Court for settlement of their disputes, the miners require a special tribunal. They do not believe that the Arbitration Court would give a decision that would suit them. The idea seems to be that, unless the tribunal will give them all they want, it will not be doing its work fairly. This is a new proposition to me. I think that the Arbitration Court, or any similar body which weighs the evidence given on both sides and records a judgment in accordance with the evidence, is a fair tribunal, but the coal-miners will have nothing to do with the Arbitration Court. They practically say, “ Once a coalminer, always a coal-miner “, and they consider that employment must be found at coal-mining for them and for their children as long as they are fit to work. The contention is that the mine-owners should extract more coal than can be disposed of, and do it at a higher cost than users can afford to pay. They talk of unemployment, but their action in striking creates more unemployment in a week than any government would in a year. I am afraid that the Communist tail is wagging the Labour dog, and the dog is barking loudly. The Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) was very fair when he said that the right course for the miners to . follow was to submit their case to the Arbitration Court, by which justice would be done. Some honorable senators opposite know in their hearts that the miners are not entitled to a special tribunal. They should not listen to the cries of the few thousand men who have no interest in the workers generally, but are solely concerned in upsetting . the governments of this and every other country. Labour leaders who have condemned the communist element in Australia must realize that communists arc largely responsible lor the unfortunate industrial situation which exists in the Newcastle area. Many Labour leaders who arc supporting the strikers must realize that the upheaval will be the means of many deserving men and women being deprived of the necessaries of life. Moreover, the cessation of operations on the coal-fields means that the production of iron and steel will be seriously interfered with, and the output of munitions restricted. What an attitude at a time like this! Apparently the coal-miners wish to place their claims before a special tribunal that will give thorn everything to which they claim that t hey are entitled.

Senator Ashley:

– That is nor correct.

Senator LECKIE:

– Honorable senators opposite should be honest in matters of this kind. They should face the facts and admit that I am speaking the truth. If the men submitted their case to the proper tribunal it could be disposed of within a week or two, and justice would bedone.

I am afraid that I have not dealt with the bill before the chamber, but have devoted most of my time to making a few comments on points that were raised during the debate yesterday. I trust that I have not said anything offensive to those honorable senators who are new to this chamber, and although I was challenged when I referred to the remarks of an honorable senator who was temporarily absent, in fairness to myself I should explain that I did not make the remark attributed to me. I trust that that honorable senator will accept my assurance that I had no intention to be offensive. Whilst I hold certain views and express myself somewhat forcibly at times, I realize that others, holding political views different from my own, are entitled to their opinions. I am sure that all honorable senators were interested to hear the new speakers, and followed with attention the views they expressed on various matters. I trust that they will Assist to keep the debates in this chamber ona high plane, so that in the future proceedings of the Senate will be conducted, as they have been in the past, in a dignified manner.

Senator BRAND:
Victoria

.- Doubtless when the defence estimates are under consideration later in the session Senator Amour will vigorously oppose expenditure on many items. Yet, last night he castigated the department for not constructing a road which is considered unnecessary, involving the expenditure of thousands of pounds. I am familiar with the early inquiries regarding the possibility of a short cut through Bankstown, via Milperra, across the George’sRiver to the Liverpool manoeuvre area. I thought that that idea had been abandoned, but it seems to have been resurrected. What an outcry there would be from the Opposition ifan honorable senator on this side of the chamber advocated such an unnecessary work! No doubt the honorable senator, who is a Bankstown councillor, has in mind the asset such a road would be to the council, and particularly a bridge over the deep and comparatively wide George’s River, if constructed without any expense to that body. The Senate is not concerned with local benefits unless there is a corresponding national advantage. During the Great War, thousands of troops and thousands of tons of supplies were conveyed on the road from Bankstown through Liverpool over the bridge near that town, and why, in times of peace, with only a skeleton army to train at intermittent periods, should we expend public money on another road bridge which is not absolutely . necessary?

I have before me a long message giving the report of a meeting held at Wau, New Guinea, last Sunday. The meeting was convened by the New Guinea Mining Association, Morobe Citizens’ Association, the local Chamber of Mines, and the Wau branch of the Australian Labour party. The message is signed by the presidents of those organizations, all of them “ diggers “. I do not propose to read the full message, but the resolutions of the meeting were to the effect that the construction of the road from Wau to Salamaua be proceeded with by the most direct route without delay, that agitation for alternate routes be ignored, that Wau be the selected capital, and that the control of merchandising and transportation services at present existing under trading agreements between major firms should not be broken. I do not know the local conditions, but I am prepared to support the considered opinion of the “ diggers “, who ought to know what is best for the whole community. A bill guaranteeing the amount required for the construction of a road from Wau to Salamaua was passed in the last period of the last Parliament. The Loan Council has approved of the expenditure, and the survey of the route is almost complete. I have brought this matter under the notice of the Senate so that honorable senators may be apprised of the actual situation.

There is another matter which calls for the personal attention of the Minister for Defence (Mr. Thorby). Some time ago a new name was gazetted to the Militia Forces in Brisbane - the Queensland Cameron Highlanders - and one of many battalions in the Great War is in danger of being submerged. With due respect to Senator Cameron and other honorable senators of Scottish ancestry on both sides of the chamber., I submit that the traditions of that famous 15th Battalion have prior rights to perpetuity. Let there be a Scottish battalion by all means, but not at the expense of Australian sentiment and tradition. Senator Cooper, ex-Senator Sampson and the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis) were all members of that battalion. Returned soldiers in the northern State are very perturbed at the change, and hope that some rearrangement of militia unit names in Brisbane will be made in order to safeguard the name of this Anzac battalion and its great traditions.

Senator CLOTHIER:
Western Australia

– At present we are surrounded with a good deal of- doubt and. suspicion concerning the future, and, unfortunately, there are thousands of unemployed persons throughout the Commonwealth. Not only do the boys and girls who leave school find it difficult to obtain work, but also there are many young men and women between the ages of IS and 25 who, being unable to get employment, are compelled to go on the dole. In countries such as Australia it is the responsibility of government, to give a lead; but, unfortunately, that is not being done at present. For instance only a month ago approximately 50 men who had been working at the Bullsbrook Aerodrome, Western Australia, were told that their services would be no longer required, although there is sufficient work available there to keep 150 men employed for twelve months or even two years. When governments dismiss men local governing bodies and private employers reduce their staffs, for no apparent reason. It is the responsibility of the State governments and also of the Commonwealth Government to see that works are put in hand so that boys on leaving school and others can be provided with remunerative employment. I do not blame only governments; some private employers also are in a position to have larger staffs than they have today. In Western Australia we are at a disadvantage because we have only a few secondary industries in which the people can be employed. We are also told that there is room for large numbers on the land, but, we are already producing more of some primary commodities than can be disposed of profitably. The Commonwealth Government should assist the States, particularly the less populous States, in the provision of technical education ‘ so that many deserving young men may engage in trades or start in businesses on their own account. Many young married men are living in fear and dread of losing their jobs, and on going home at night say to their wives, “I am all right so far, but I may be put off to-morrow “. Thousands of persons are living in dread of losing their employment. Fear is one of our worst enemies. Last year the Government appropriated £200,000 to be used in providing employment for youths, and even if a similar amount be appropriated this year it will be quite inadequate. We are told that Britain is on the verge of war, and should we be involved in another international conflict the young men in Australia who will be expected to fight cannot possibly have the stamina of those who. enlisted in 1914. They have not had an opportunity to become strong and virile men capable of assisting in the defence of their country. 1 suggest that the Commonwealth Government should appoint a minister whose main duty should be to make contact with each of the State governments in order to secure first-hand knowledge of their requirements, with the object of devising means of providing work for the unemployed. Unfortunately, to-day no effort is being made along those lines. I remind honorable senators that Western Australia was the first State to appoint a Minister for Employment and, I may add, he has done wonderful work. I feel certain that if the Commonwealth Government were to appoint a minister to make contact with the State governments, as I suggest, it would be enabled to come to the rescue of the unemployed in all parts of the Commonwealth. Until such a policy is adopted we shall not be able to do our duty to the unemployed. We are not born to serve our> own interests alone; we must recognize the responsibility resting upon us as the duly elected representatives of the people, and in dealing with the unemployment problem we should remember that the solidarity of a nation rests upon the solidarity of the individual.

I do not intend to discuss the Government’s proposed expenditure oh defence; that matter was dealt with effectively by my Leader yesterday. One item of this Government’s expenditure which appears to be unreasonable is that in connexion with Australia House. I find that last year the following expenditure was incurred in that connexion - Alterations, £4,000; additions to High Commissioner’s residence, £511 ; additional upkeep of residence, £390; and additional upkeep of Australia House, £3,943. When so many of our people are unemployed, and on the breadline, we should be careful in respect of expenditure of this kind. The cost of the recent visit overseas of the Australian delegation, consisting of three Ministers, was £11,256, and a further sum of £6,000 is provided in this budget in respect of that tour, bringing the total cost to £17,000. The delegation of four Ministers which journeyed overseas in 1935 cost £17,768, and last year’s overseas delegation, consisting of three Ministers, cost £12,646. I submit that such expen diture on these delegations is not justified when so many of our young people are looking for work. I am firmly of the opinion that the State Agents-General, together with the High Commissioner for Australia, could deal satisfactorily with Australia’s affairs on the other side of the world. Large expenditure on ministerial delegations, therefore, is unjustifiable.

Dealing with expenditure on defence, I quote from a recent publication of the International Labour Office -

What is happening to-day? Whilst we are paying the cost of the cataclysm of nearly a quarter of a century ago, the nations are still arming, and vieing with one another as to which will spend the most money in munitions for the destruction of human life. To-day there are nearly 9,000,000 men under arms, and in 1937 there was spent £3,000,000,000 in preparations for war. This sum is twice the amount that was spent in armaments in 1030, three times that spent in 1932, and five times the amount spent in 1913. The Director of the International Labour Office, in a recent report, sums up the position as follows: -

The whole national life and the activity of every individual is being subordinated to the requirements of the State in the event of conflict. Every country which feels itself menaced and insecure is perforce driven along the same road. Individual freedom and economic expansion are more and more cramped and distorted by the overriding necessity of national preparedness. In such circumstances, vast sums which might otherwise have been profitably devoted to fighting sickness, to prolonging life, to sweetening old age, to adding a cubit to the knowledge and culture of mankind, are diverted to the destruction of what man has so painfully acquired, or created by the sweat of his brow and to the exaltation of death by the perfection of every method available for extinguishing human life with all the thoroughness and horror that science can devise.

Is it right that such huge sums of money should be expended for purposes of war when so many people are looking for work? Nothing pleases one more than to see a man going to his work each morning singing and whistling. Such a man is happy because he has something to do, but when we see men standing idly in groups, wondering what is going to happen to them, our sympathy is aroused ; we know that their plight is due to the fact that they have nothing to look forward to.

Under the Constitution, the control of railways for the purposes of transport of naval and military forces is vested in the Commonwealth Parliament. It would be a wonderful thing for this country if this Parliament were to awaken to its responsibilities in this respect. The people of Western Australia particularly are suffering great disability because of the lack of a railway of uniform gauge from Fremantle to the eastern capitals. Fremantle is the gateway to Australia, but the differing gauges in the railway system give it a most unsatisfactory connexion with the eastern States. [ suggest that from the point of view of defence, particularly for the transport of troops in a time of emergency, it is urgently necessary that the Commonwealth should undertake this important work; in doing so it would also provide work for the majority of our unemployed. In the workshops, which would be needed for this undertaking, our youth could be given a chance to learn useful trades. I notice that the Minister for the Interior (Mr. McEwen), in dealing with this matter on the 5th August, was reported in the newspapers as having said -

Yesterday an agenda committee, consisting of the secretaries of the respective railway commissioners throughout Australia, who had been meeting from time to time, was preparing an agenda for a conference of the Ministers for Transport in the various States. The conference would be convened possibly towards the end of this year, and would deal with railway and transport matters, including the unification of railway gauges. As Minister for Commonwealth Railways, he would preside at the conference, which had been agreed upon at a meeting of the Premiers’ conference.

I hope that that proposal will be carried out. Much has been said concerning our existing transport facilities. A suggestion has been made that our airways offer means for the conveyance of troops in time of emergency, but it requires very little consideration of the matter to see the futility of such a suggestion. I repeat that Western Australia is so isolated by the present transport system that it may be said to be “ off the map “, and it is time that an effort was made to bring that State into closer contact with the eastern States by standardizing the railway gauges.

Reverting to unemployment, I repeat my suggestion that the Commonwealth Government should appoint a Minister to make contact with State governments in respect of this problem. It is all very well for this Government to say that we have turned the corner; it must be a corner something like the corners we find in Canberra, where the streets are all curved, and after traversing them one finds himself back where he started, making no headway at all. Another way in which Ave could assist the States in respect of unemployment, is by granting a greater measure of aid to the State governments for the furtherance of technical education. When so many of our young men and women find it difficult to secure work on leaving school, an effort should be made to carry them on i:i technical schools, overcoming many of the disabilities they now suffer owing to their lack of training in skilled trades.

Senator KEANE:
Victoria

.- In addressing myself to this debate it occurs to me, as a new senator, that I should make a few general comments on the reason why I and my colleagues are here. The accession of strength to the Opposition in this chamber is a reflection of the views of the electors of Australia, and I suggest that the criticism offered by my colleagues who have already spoken represents the views of the majority of the electors of this country. I take this opportunity to pay a tribute to the members of the numerically small Opposition who formerly held the Labour fort in this chamber. They did an astonishingly good job. It is now nearly 25 years since the Labour party was in control of this chamber. It lost that control on one of the worst issues ever placed before the electors of Australia. In this respect I speak as one who was a candidate on that occasion. This country was stampeded on an issue which I can only describe as one of the most brutal ever submitted to the people of Australia. It arose from the fact that British seamen, members of the British Mercantile Marine, went on strike in the ports of Australia in order to resist a reduction of their wages from £8 a month to £7 a month. The Labour movement in Australia had nothing whatever to do with that strike nor did it offer ohe word of encouragement to strike. Yet, on that issue the people of this country were stampeded, with the result that from that time until to-day the Labour party was not represented in this chamber by a numerically strong opposition. Despite the fact that we are still in the minority, [ believe that we can do much useful work in the Senate. I subscribe wholeheartedly to the remarks made by my Leader yesterday when he said that perhaps measures will be introduced by this Government which will have our support. I agree with most of the criticism offered by my colleagues during this debate, bin . shall not expect a reply to it from the Ministers in this chamber. The Government has a majority, and I imagine it will not waste much powder at this stage. Despite the happy prognostications of the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) this country lias some big problems to face within the next twelve months. For instance, within a few weeks it will be necessary to arrange for the conversion of loans amounting to £80,000,000. In addition, about £40,000,000 for a big defence programme must be found. Moreover, as Senator Cameron pointed out yesterday, the. problem of dealing with unemployment is becoming more urgent because the number of men out of work is increasing. Even the figures which we on this side claim are not a true reflex of the position, show that the position is becoming worse. For many years I was head of one of the biggest industrial organizations in Australia - the Railways Union - and one of my duties was to forward returns to the Registrar. Although the membership of the union at the time was about 60,000, I do not think that complete returns were submitted on more than three occasions during the six or eight years that I was associated with it. In any case, the figures, when loosely quoted, do not reveal the true position. With Senator Cameron I recently attended, in Melbourne, a meeting, not of irresponsible people, but of men who have given a great deal of attention in an honorary capacity to the subject of unemployment. I have in mind particularly Mr. H. Leas, a man of erudition, with some small private income, who gives his services in practically an honorary capacity. The meeting was attended by not less than S,000 persons, although no great publicity was given to it. I was astounded to learn the extent to which unemployment had increased. I do not suggest that the present Government, or, indeed, any government, will ever deal effectively with unemployment unless it is prepared to tackle the problem at its root, and find a solution in a reform of the monetary system. As this Government is not likely to do that, I cannot see how it can hope to solve the problem. Desperate men take desperate measures, and consequently when Government candidates promised that, if the Lyons Government were returned, jobs would be found for men who, it was alleged, had been thrown out of employment by the policy of the Scullin Government, workless men grasped at the straw, and in 1931 and again in 1934 returned the Government to power. Despite the fact that that promise has not been fulfilled and, indeed, cannot be honored while the present monetary system remains, that Government is still in office. On this subject the Opposition will keep up a continual barrage on behalf of men who are unable to obtain employment. There are two classes pf men in this country - those who have jobs, and those without jobs. I disagree with Senator Leckie, who said that the mechanization of industry is not the cause of unemployment, and shall give one or two illustrations in support of my contention. At the Yallourn brown coal mine one excavating machine has displaced 200 men. The mechanization of coal-mining has resulted in an increased output of 250,000 tons of coal by 11,000 miners less than were formerly employed. At the Islington railway workshops, 800 men now do work which previously required 1,S00 men, and they are paid at lower rates. I could give numerous instances to show that society is interested only in the reduction of its cost of production by means of machinery, and is not concerned with the numbers of workers who are thrown out of employment. At a later stage the Opposition will have more to say on the subject of unemployment.

Senator Leckie also said that honorable senators on this side of the chamber would support the miners, irrespective of whether they were right or wrong. I claim that once an industrial unit gets into trouble, the Labour party to a man will stand behind it. That is the position on this occasion. The Opposition appeals to the Government to arrange a conference between the employers and the employees in this industry. The merits of this dispute I shall leave to my colleagues from New South Wales, who are mi fait with the industry. I can understand why the miners will not go to the Commonwealth Arbitration Court for a settlement of the dispute. That court has not the power to decide the allowances which should be paid to miners, and never in its history has it made an award covering sick pay. Moreover, the court has no jurisdiction over safety precautions, and no control over the aire at which men shall leave the industry. The coalminers are, therefore, forced to rely on either a conference between the employers and themselves, or the reconstitution of the special tribunal previously set up under the Industrial Peace Act. If men have not faith in a certain tribunal - and at this stage I shall not impugn any particular judge - other means of dealing with the dispute should be taken. I know many of the judges of the Arbitration Court to be excellent men, but they are not the right persons to deal with the grievances of the coal-miners. What is wanted is a conference between practical men representing both employers and employees, with an approved independent chairman. I am hopeful that the Government will give to this matter further consideration, and will yet arrange such a conference. I suggest that a special tribunal, armed with powers similar to those possessed by the Arbitration Court, be set up. Points not covered by the act could bc referred to sub-committees for inquiry. Until something be done to ensure industrial peace, this aspect of industry will be the cause of frequent references in this chamber. If the Prime Minister of the greatest empire in the world thought it worth while to fly to Germany to confer with Herr Hitler in the interests of international peace, it is not too much to ask the Prime Minister of Australia to put some of his pride aside and call the owners and men together in conference, with a view to ensuring industrial peace.

The Transport Workers Act still applies at the ports of Melbourne and Adelaide, and in Queensland, with the result that thousands of men are still out of employment. They are the unfortunate sufferers of an industrial feud which ought to have been forgotten long ago. The Government should consider the early revision, or, better still, the abolition, of that legislation, which is one of the most obnoxious enactments of this Parliament. The men responsible for it are no longer in this Parliament, yet the men affected by it who are now advanced in years, have no hope of employment unless amending legislation be passed by this Parliament.

I listened with interest to Senator Leckie’s dissertation on arbitration. The Labour party stands for arbitration, but it does not approve of the personnel of some tribunals in this country. I believe that it is wrong to traduce men in judicial positions unless one has knowledge of their mistakes, and understands why they were made. Generally, arbitration has been a distinct blessing to the workers of Australia, despite what might be said to the contrary. It is, at least, a legal policeman; but some of the awards which have been made are ridiculous. A recent award, by which wages were raised in most of the States by 5s. a week, did not confer any lasting benefit on the workers, for within three weeks their position was as bad as previously. It is true, as the Leader of the Opposition has said, that whilst wages go up by the stairs, the cost of living goes up by the lift. It is impossible to get satisfactory arbitration until the legal technicalities associated with the court are eliminated. The Labour party favours arbitration under what may be called an enlarged wages board system, with representatives of employers and employees meeting under an independent chairman to fix wages and conditions of employment. On this subject I speak not as one without experience, but, as I have said, as a man who for many years was head of a big industrial organization, in which capacity I always opposed direct action and urged constitutional methods. Now, after years of experience of the arbitration system, I am forced to say that it. has many drawbacks. Necessarily, appointments to such tribunals are made by the Government of the day. Had appointments to those tribunals been made by a Labour government, I can imagine that employers would complain that the men selected had been hand-picked. Some of the appointments have not been satisfactory to the workers of Australia. When I am asked why I do not stand for arbitration in the present coal-mining dispute, my reply is that I am not willing that the questions at issue should be decided by laymen. We hope that the Government will investigate the matter.

Last evening, one of my Labour colleagues raised the subject of housing. I understand that he directed attention to the legislation passed by the BrucePage Government in 1927^28 under which an amount of £20,000,000 may be advanced to State authorities for the purpose of home building. Although that scheme was a feature of at least three elections, nothing has been done by the Commonwealth Government to give effect to it, and the need for adequate housing still exists in the various States. It may be said by Senator Dein, and I agree with him, that, under the co-operative system introduced by the New South Wales Government, substantial progress has been made towards solving the housing problem in that State by the cooperative organizations backed by a government guarantee of £500,000. Although the ‘State government has not been obliged to advance the amount of the guarantee, no less a sum than £11,000,000 has been made available by financial institutions to a number of approved building societies for the erection of homes in various parts of New South Wales. The scheme has given employment to tens of thousands of skilled workers and it has given a large number of lads leaving school an opportunity to obtain remunerative employment in the building trade. This co-operative system as applied to housing has been adopted in South Australia and it may be introduced shortly in Tasmania. In view of the fact that economic recession appears to be imminent, I sincerely hope that the Commonwealth Government will consider the inauguration of a similar scheme under its existing legislation. Such a pro posal would be a step in the direction of providing a long-range plan of useful, productive and necessary work in the event of a business recession eventuating, which, of course, we all sincerely hope will not be the case.

Under the very excellent Senate Standing Orders, one can deal with quite a number of subjects in the debate on the motion for the first reading of a Supply bill, but, on this occasion, I shall endeavour to confine my remarks to matters of immediate concern. Some years ago, when I had the honour to be a member of the House of Representatives, I supported a Labour government - the Scullin Administration - which, although not commanding a majority in this chamber, rendered a great service to this country. But I have a most unpleasant memory of its fate at the hands .of political opponents. As honorable senators will recall, it introduced the famous Premiers plan which effected drastic retrenchments of public servants’ salaries and a tremendous saving in government expenditure. That scheme had the unanimous support of members of the Country and United Australia parties, yet so low had political life in this country fallen that Labour’s opponents cited the introduction of the Premiers plan as a reason why the Scullin Government should be defeated. I- say now to Senator Leckie that the present satisfactory position of Australia is due largely to the magnificent work done -by the Scullin Government in the dark days of the depression. I admit, however, that I differed from the views of that Government on some occasions, especially in regard, to proposals which I believed would result in putting off the evil day.

If the future of this country is to be assured, we must give full consideration to the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Banking and Monetary System. This commission was not created by the party to which I belong, but by the present Government, and, if we would render good service to Australia, we should not ignore the salient points of its report. The Melbourne Age, some months ago, summed up the achievements of the Scullin Government in these terms : -

The courage of the Scullin Government saved A list nil in. Loan conversions to a ‘lower rate of interest, suspension of overseas war debts, gave relief to all Government budgets during the last six years in the aggregate of £00,000,000. Of that total saving the Lyons Government was responsible for only £11,000.000. The Lyons Government received, last year £9,000,000 more from taxation than the year it took office, and has £9,000,000 a year less to pay for interest and sinking fund. lt should not bc difficult to balance budgets in those circumstances.

That is a fair resume of what is to me a bitter political memory.

My general attitude in this chamber will always be one of consideration for other honorable senators. I shall adhere firmly to my life-long principles and endeavour always to do the right thing. I hope that the debates in this chamber will be conducted in a friendly spirit. Members of this party will always support any proposal that is in the interests of the people generally. “We shall not depart one iota from the principles of the Labour movement which was created by the working people who sent us here

Senator LAMP:
Tasmania

.- - I was interested recently to read the report of Air-Marshal Sir Edward Ellington on the Royal Australian Air Force. I agree with most of the recommendations made by that gentleman, but I disagree with others. The first paragraph of his report states -

I fmd that the aim of the Royal Australian Air Force is defined by the Chief of the Air Staff as defence against raids in co-operation with the Navy and Army. I suggest that its aim would be better defined as “the defeat in co-operation with the Navy and Army of any power which is threatening the independence of the country.” I mention this because some aspects of the proposed expansion, notably in the matter of reserves, seem to mc to take too narrow a view of the requirements of the Royal Australian Air Force in war. However, it is first necessary to be able to deal with raids, since obviously an air force which is not in a position to deal with such threats cannot tackle more serious emergencies.

Everybody recognizes the necessity for co-operation between the Royal Australian Air Force and the Australian Army and Navy; but in my opinion cooperation with the British Navy at the” present time is impossible, because, as we all know, the British Navy cannot leave home waters during a crisis. Therefore we on this side believe that the best way to defend Australia is to make our own

Air Force thoroughly efficient. Clause 20 of Sir Edward Ellington’s report states -

  1. have inspected the three existing cadre units, and I have spoken to a number of officers and mcn of the Citizen Air Force. The quality of these officers and men seems to be good, and I was impressed by the number of men whose work in civil life is analogous to their trades in the Citizen Air Force. Although Citizen Air Force pilots can, in course of time, become first-class as far as airmanship is concerned, I do not think they can afford to give the time necessary for adequate training in armament work. In these circumstances I do not recommend that the proportion of cadre squadrons of four to thirteen regular squadrons, as shown in the present programme, should be increased

I point out that Sir Edward Ellington arrived in Australia on the 13th June last and presented his report on the 1.6th July after having been here for a little over one month. Yet he states that applicants for appointment to the Citizen Air Force have not the necessary time at their disposal to become competent in armament work. How would any one who had conducted investigations for only a month, have made sufficient inquiries to be able to say what time these applicants have at their disposal? In Tasmania many thousands of young mcn are prepared to devote the necessary time to become proficient as members of a Citizen Air Force, and the Premier has asked me to bring before honorable senators the desirability of establishing a Citizen Air Force in that State. I understand that this subject has been mentioned in the House of Representatives, but I do not know whether it has been discussed in this chamber. On the 27th July, 193S, a very representative deputation waited upon the Premier of Tasmania to ask that representations be made to the Commonwealth Government to establish a Citizen Air Force, in that State. The deputation comprised the following: -

The Lord Mayor (Mr. J. Soundy, M.H.A.).. Mr. B. O. Plummer, M.H.A., the president of the Hobart Chamber of Commerce (Mr. W. F. Hillman), the secretary of the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League of Australia (Mr. F. E. Cotton), Mr. C. B. Ranson (Australian Flying Corps Association), the chairman (Mr. B’. G. Jones), and secretary (Mr. M. Roche), of the southern section of the Tasmanian Aero Club, the Deputy Warden of Clarence (Councillor M. Calvert), and Mr. N. Simmonds.

The Premier of Tasmania was good enough to supply me with the notes of the deputation, but I find that the press report of the proceedings, being more condensed, is more suitable for presentation to the Senate. Introducing the deputation,

Mr. PI millner referred to the serious position with which Tasmania would be faced in the event oE war with a foreign power, and said that at present there wert no defences apart from some obsolete guns, and the State should be defended with aeroplanes. Many millions of pounds were to be spent on the defences of Australia, and Tasmania, as usual, was to be overlooked. Only a few thousand pounds were to be spent in this State. “ Tasmania is definitely being neglected,” said Mr. Plummer. “ and wo ask you to approach the Federal Government to endeavour to get it to establish a. Citizen Air Force here. Efforts have been made in the past, but without success.”

Mr. ]?1 millner said the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) had informed the southern section of the Tasmanian Aero Club last year that’ the present development programme for the Royal Air Force did not include the establishment of a unit in Tasmania. “ We have many young men only too willing to learn to fly. and defend their country in the hour of need,’’ hu said. “ hut unfortunately, they arc not given the same facilities as those on the mainland.”

Tasmanians acquitted themselves exceedingly well in the Great War. The proportion of members of the Australian Imperial Force who obtained decorations was greater in Tasmania, than in any other State, but at the present time our young men are not given a_ proper chance to show what they can do for the defence of the country. Mr. Plummer asserted -

Our young men have learned to fly in old machines, and if, in the event of war, they were put into modern fighting machines, it would be nothing less than sending them to certain death.

Mr. Jones, secretary of the Aero Club of Tasmania, said -

The Aero Club was vitally concerned with the question of defence because members would be expected to give their services if Australia were involved in war. The club was still flying machines which were designed in 1924, and it was unreasonable to expect it, with the equipment available, to he an efficient fighting unit if called upon.

If we arc to be called upon we consider we should bc given the opportunity for adequate training. Aero clubs were subsidized by the Commonwealth Government. Last year Tasmania received approximately £800, hut that was insufficient to buy new machines. Something should be done to give them necessary equipment.

Nobody can be expected to do a job unless he is provided with the necessary tools, and for effective defence up-to-date aircraft are essential. The Lord Mayor of Hobart, Mr. Soundy, who is a member of the United Australia party, remarked -

One of the most ruthless methods of warfare was the bombing of unprotected towns and people, and that was one reason why he felt it his duty to point out .that provision was not made in the defences of Australia for the protection of the smaller States. They would be laid open to a ruthless attack. It was logical that the Aero Club should form the nucleus of a defence force to protect Tasmania from bombing outrages.

Mr. Hinman, of the Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Cotton, and the secretary of the Returned Soldiers’ Association, supported those remarks. The Premier remarked that the Government concurred in what had been said, and. would ask the Commonwealth Government to accede to the request that an Air Force machine be stationed in Tasmania for the training of pilots. The Labour party believes that Australia must largely depend for the future upon aerial defence. I subscribe to that view. We cannot expect Great Britain to send its navy to the Pacific in order to protect Australia when its ships may be urgently needed at home. Australia’s preparedness for defence depends on the number of fighters, bombers, and air-craft carriers at its disposal. We should have an aerial fleet that could easily defeat any force likely to be brought against us, and it is essential that the Air Force be provided with facilities such as landing grounds and oil supplies.

If the problem that confronts us were tackled seriously, it could be solved. It is useless to have an Air Force unless we can be sure of the necessary fuel for the engines. I commend the “project for the development of the shale oil resources at Newnes, but Ave should- also develop the shale resources of Tasmania. At Latrobe, in the Mersey Valley, there is more shale than at Newnes. The seams are thicker and the shale is just as rich as that at Newnes. These valuable natural resources should be developed and used for defence purposes. The manufacture of power-alcohol from sugar beet and cane sugar should also he encouraged, because this industry would be able to supply a great deal of the fuel necessary for defence purposes.

In Tasmania - and I understand also in some of the other States - there are bodies” of young men who are .members of the League of Frontiersmen. Some time ago I regarded them as a sort of comic opera brigade, but, since making inquiries regarding their activities, I find that they are well worthy of recognition and encouragement. In Tasmania they have banded themselves together and offered their services for the protection of their country,- but the Commonwealth Government has refused to supply them with uniforms and the necessary equipment. I trust that their requests will be granted in the near future.

The sum of £11,200 is provided in the Estimates for the administration of rifle -clubs. As a returned soldier I am well aware of the value of the training given by these clubs to men who took part in the Great War, and they are worthy of more assistance than has been given to them. It was pointed out to me recently when I visited Flinders Island that nothing had been done for a considerable time to maintain the rifle range at White Mark. The members of the local rifle club have spent money out of their own pockets to keep the range in order, but I believe that rifle ranges should be kept in a proper state of repair by the Commonwealth authorities. The road leading to the range at White Mark is impassable, and should be put in order to enable ammunition to be conveyed to the range.

The Furneaux group of islands between Tasmania and the mainland is on the route of the regular air services, and if a plane were forced to alight on the sea there would be no means by which a rescue could be effected. It is the considered opinion of the inhabitants of the islands that for defence purposes, and also for use in the event of accidents to air liners, a pilot, boat capable of a speed of 40 or 42 miles an hour should be provided. I suggest that a similar boat should be provided for patrol work in North Australia in place of the much less useful class of vessel now employed.

The Tasmanian Labour party and the Labour Government of that State have long advocated the provision of an uptodate steamship service between Tasmania and the mainland. Although as a member of Parliament, I now travel first class, I have had experience as a secondclass passenger of the service provided between Tasmania and the mainland. The people of Tasmania suffer through lack of adequate transport facilities. At the present time they are at the mercy of the shipping combine in regard to the carriage of their fruit, produce and general merchandise, and often they are unable to place their goods on the mainland markets because of lack of shipping facilities. I hope that the Government will give consideration to the establishment of a Commonwealth line of steamers to provide services’ between Melbourne and Launceston and between Melbourne and Hobart.

Some time ago I was accused of voting against the adoption of a 40-hour week. The Tasmanian Labour Conference decided to support that principle, but on a federal basis. We believe that a 40-hour week is necessary, and practicable in Australia on such a basis, but that it would be unfair if the reform were instituted in one State only. New Zealand, France, Belgium, Italy, and most of the States of the American Union, have adopted the principle, and until recently it was in operation in Germany. For a considerable time it has been in operation in the Broken Hill mines. It is applied to all trades in Brisbane, and to the building employees of twenty municipalities in New South Wales and Victoria. If the Commonwealth Parliament has not the power to ratify an International Labour Convention it can hardly be said to be a sovereign national Parliament. I believe that this Parliament has power to ratify any international convention. The -attitude of the Commonwealth Government was indicated before the Australian delegates left for the International Labour Conference at Geneva this year. It was announced that the Government would agree to the proposal, provided it could be put into effect without disorganizing the economic structure of society, as part of a general scheme to be given effect by the principal competing countries for the reduction of the hours of work. It seems to me that the attitude of the Government was so guardedly expressed as to indicate its desire to escape- the responsibility of suggesting the reform.

Article No. 1 of the International Labour Conference states that a 40-hour week can be put into effect without disorganizing the economic structure of society. It has already been done in New Zealand. Article No. 3 reads -

Some solution of the difficult problem of reduction of hours of work of persons engaged in country industries is found and put into effect as part of any general scheme for reduction of hours of work.

Effect has already been given to that article in New Zealand, where the Government has instituted a system whereby produce can be marketed overseas at a specified figure, which provides the primary producers with a minimum guaranteed price. As the quality of the product improves the price increases. I am showing that effect can be given to a 40-hour week without disorganizing the economic struc;ture of society, and that by the introduction of a marketing system such as is in operation in New Zealand a uniform reduction of hours in both our primary and secondary industries can be brought about without causing economic instability. Dealing with the subject of guaranteed prices the Grocer, published in London, stated -

Tt is possible now to say that the scheme has been a complete success. The change over has been smoothly effected in London; the marketing of regular supplies has been simplified. Speculation has been eliminated to a very largo extent and the margin between the prices of Danish and Dominion butter has been narrowed down. If the remainder of the first year’s shipments can be cleared at about present prices the scheme will have justified itself financially.

An extract from the Primary Producer, published in Sydney, reads - ,

Dairy farmers in Australia have for the past twelve months been watching with keen interest and close attention the development of the New Zealand government’s dairy industry policy which is based upon government control of the marketing system and includes’ a predetermined guaranteed price to the producers. That system has now been in operation for a full year, and although the whole nf the season’s output has not yet been sold it is possible to attempt an examination of its results. For this purpose it seems desirable to consider the subject under two heads: the price guarantee and the overseas marketing of the produce. There is a third head - marketing within the Dominion - which must not be lost sight of, but this is still more or less in its preliminary stages, and can, in any case lie best studied on the spot by ‘members of our union who are to visit New Zealand next month. The guaranteed price system, like local marketing can best ‘be studied on the spot where the views of all concerned can be ascertained at first hand, and it is not our purpose now to discuss it.

Primary producers state that the system has worked with the utmost satisfaction, and should be given a trial in Australia. The disabilities which might arise owing to competition from foreign countries could be regulated by means of the tariff. I realize that the Commonwealth Government has no intention to introduce a 40-hour week; but the members of the Labour party intend to bring the subject before this Parliament on every possible occasion, and in that way make the Government realize that the responsibility to bring about this desired reform belongs to it.

The industrial dispute on the New South Wales coal-fields has been dealt with at length by my colleagues, and as they have covered the ground adequately I do not propose to deal with the subject at length. I feel, however, that I should say that our Commonwealth arbitration system has not worked satisfactorily, due largely to the fact that the courts are presided over by legal gentlemen. A lawyer is not a fit and proper person to preside over an arbitration court, because the sphere in which he moves does not enable him to realize the conditions under which industrialists work. If our arbitration system is to succeed, the court should be presided over by engineers and others who have an intimate knowledge of the work which the men have to perform. They should see them at their work and thus fit themselves to assess the value of the labour done. There are engineers and others with undoubted ability and experience who would be willing to give their services, and if they were availed of, I am sure that our arbitration system would function satisfactorily.

For some time I have been interested in the activities of the Australian Broadcasting Commission. I commend the commission for what it has done in some directions; but its policy of importing artists is not in the best interest of the Australian people. It is true that the entertainments provided by some of the visiting artists are appreciated by Australian audiences, but the best policy for the commission to pursue is to conduct annually a national eisteddfod in each State alternately and in that way attract local artists from whom a selection could be made for broadcasting purposes. In Australia there are many young artists qualified to assist the commission which itself would , benefit, and in addition encouragement would be given to promising artists. . We have good Australian bands and’. at certain times of the year, such .as on.Anzac Day, these bands are asked to assist. The Broadcasting Commission should conduct band contests and thus encourage Australian musicians, particularly amateurs, to become more proficient. I trust that the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan) will bring my suggestion in this respect under the notice of the commission and see if something more can be clone to encourage local talent.

I now wish to deal with the subject of migration in connexion with which I have prepared a carefully worded statement.

Senator McLeay:

– Is it for propaganda purposes, or does it contain constructive argument ?

Senator LAMP:

– The honorable senator can judge of its value when I have concluded.

The well-to-do classes, industrial and professional, as well as primary producers, generally approve a policy of “speedingup “ population growth. There is, of course, no agreement as to the best methods of achieving this end. Still less is there strongly expressed willingness to make substantial sacrifices for any such policy, if such should prove necessary. Indeed, it will generally be contended that this policy will involve gain and not loss, both immediately and in the future. And here we must mention the possibility that employers of labour may, in fact, entertain hopes that substantial increases of our numbers may result in a general reduction of wage rates, and so, in a cheapening of the costs of production. Such arguments would not, of course, command any general support, and are not made publicly. But they are current and doubtless prompt views which are supported by other considerations, such as the welfare of the Empire as a whole, or the interests of defence. Generally speaking, conservative opinion favours a forward policy of migration. In criticizing the opposition of trade unions to immigration, one must remember the hardship imposed upon the unskilled labourer who has to meet the competition of new arrivals. ‘ Unless he is protected by immigration restriction from sudden and substantial lowering of standards, his hope of ever bettering his condition can never be realized. Further, the skilled labourer is sure to feel the downward pull caused by low wages in unskilled trades, because the sons of the unskilled will seek successfully to enter skilled trades and cut wages below that level which previously appeared to be necessary for reasonable comfort. The evidence of other countries indicates that the entrenchments of unionism, legislation in favour of workers, and new inventions all fail to prevent the flood of alien labour from forcing down real wages. When the most fertile lands have been occupied, when mines and factories are being operated by most modern methods, when adequate transport facilities have been provided, then an increase of population means a decrease of the general welfare. If more people must be supported, poorer lands must be utilized, mines must go deeper, poorer grades of ore must be extracted. In accordance ‘ with’ the law of diminishing- returns, less and less real income is obtained in exchange for a day’s labour by the worker. Some people claim that, the economic advantages represented by a rapidly increasing population in a country that is largely under-developed are far from being understood. These’ people believe that this attitude to’ immigration may well retard for many years an expansion of population that is both socially wise and economically necessary. But this mistaken attitude on the part of these people is paralleled by a lack of understanding of the true position on the part of political leaders who may justly be regarded as representing employing interests. The comparisons by which our area and absorptive capacity are assumed to be equal to those of the United States of America, are not one whit less mischievous in their effects, especially upon overseas opinion. The fact that we have a big continent in which, to make mistakes is apt to lead to a form of economic .recklessness, with disastrous results to our welfare. Professor Huntington of the Yale University said: -

These worthy people are living on the rim of a soup-plate. The rim is fertile - at least in spots - .the bowl is a barren desert without water supply. There is no hope of any very considerable irrigation projects. Out of their l!J04 million acres, there are only about 40 million acres of arable laud by the most optimistic estimate. Thus Australia, , when treated as a place to live, shrinks to the size of Spain or, possibly, Italy. It is probable that in less than 30 years she will cease to be a food-exporting nation.

Vast as is the area of Australia, its open spaces and its limitless possibilities greatly shrink for the student of settlement, who realizes that of this area notless than 1,000,000 square miles, or 34 per cent., is, in the geographer’s opinion, desert - namely, good pastoral lands but useless for agriculture - whilst the area fairly suitable, climatically, for agriculture is 24 per cent., 716,000 square miles of which, or about one quarter, is too rugged for closer settlement. The area actually under agriculture, however, is only 17,000,000 acres, or about 26,000 square miles. The comparison so often made with roughly corresponding areas in the Unites States of America, is extremely misleading.

A commission should be appointed to investigate the possibilities of closer settlement in Australia. If economic experts or social workers from outside Parliament are not available to perform such a commission we should appoint a parliamentary committee to deal with this problem. I suggest that the duties of such a committee should be to make the following preliminary investigations : - A thorough survey of Australian population, with particular reference to racial composition, power of adaptation to particular environments and occupational distribution; a comprehensive soil survey; adequate research into power resources and supplies of raw materials, and the capacity of Australian industries to absorb labour; a study of the seasonal labour turnover as between primary and secondary industries; an analysis of transport needs and facilities, with the object of securing more efficient direction and co-ordination of State activities, planning future extensions, and assisting closer settlement; investigation of all the problems .of marketing as a means of expanding both primary and secondary industries; and an expert study of finance in its relation to the settlement, problem, namely, the achievements of agricultural credit schemes, rural banks, bounties, &c. These comprise the main problems of Australian settlement. They should be tackled, and I hope that they will be studied scientifically. No attempt should be made to bring people to Australia until such time as we can offer them employment and so enable them to enjoy a decent standard of living.

Senator ARTHUR:
New South Wales

Senator Leckie stated that everything which had been said in the course of this debate yesterday by honorable senators on this side had been said in this chamber on previous occasions. If the remarks which I am about to make have previously been heard in this chamber, .1. ask Senator Leckie to inform me of the occasion. I propose to deal particularly with his statement that the miners desired to be the aristocrats of labour,’ that they claim the privilege of a special tribunal to settle their grievances, although other workers have to make their claims to the Arbitration Court, and that they wanted to mine coal under conditions which would make its price prohibitive. He also stated that the miners had not had an opportunity to vote on the issues in dispute. I point out, first, that the miners’ claims involve wages, hours and holidays. These particular matters could possibly be decided upon by the Arbitration Court. The miners are also making claims in respect of safety conditions, health and pensions. Whilst I believe that the first three matters could well be dealt with by the Arbitration Court, the miners contend that the Arbitration Court will not give them justice, and I am rather inclined to .agree with them. They feel that any arbitration tribunal to which the matters of -hours, wages and holidays and working conditions generally, might be submitted, may have as its president a judge in whom they have no confidence. For the benefit of honorable senators, I propose to outline the methods adopted by the Commonwealth Statistician in compiling the index numbers on which the

Arbitration Court bases wages. First of all, the court decides the kind of person in respect of whom it is asked to fix wages. ls it a single man or a married man, and, if a married man, has he one, two, three, four or more children ? The next question to be decided is what elements are to be considered in making up the wage. One of those elements is certainly housing. In dealing with the question, the court considers the size of the house needed, whether it is a house of four, five or six rooms. Another element is food.- The court ask* itself what quantity of food is necessary for a man doing a certain kind of work - whether it is hard outdoor work or a sedentary occupation. Other factors to be considered are clothing, fuel and light, and various matters which come under the general head of miscellaneous. Those are some of the elements which are considered by arbitration, courts, Commonwealth and State, in fixing a living wage. Let us consider food and rent, and study the meticulous care which seems to be taken to ensure that the correct figures arc never arrived at. In New South Wales - and I understand that the same method is followed in each of the other States’ - the Commonwealth Statistician selects five of the most important towns. Tn New South Wales, they are Sydney, Newcastle, Goulburn, Bathurst and Broken Hill. In each of those towns, he selects certain grocers - mark you, not all - to whom he forwards one day in each month a card, setting out 46 different commodities, against each of which the grocer is asked to set down the price which he is charging. The Statistician stipulates that the price noted must be the predominant price for the article, not the average price. Let us .°ee how that works out. If a grocer sold 20 lb. of tea on that particular date at 2s. per lb., and 30 lb. of tea at ls. per lb., the predominant mice for that commodity would be ls. per lb. In practice, the grocer concerned would place that price on his card opposite that particular commodity and return it to the Statistician, who, from that information, would compile the data from which the index number is derived. I emphasize that the Statistician forwards a card to the larger business people. No information is sought from the smaller grocer who is to be found on practically every suburban corner supplying the needs of the workers resident nearby, A similar procedure is adopted in respect of housing. In this case, the Statistician forwards once a quarter a card to various house agents in particular districts. Like the grocer, the house agent is asked to note down the predominant rental being paid for houses of three, four, and up to seven rooms. Thus, numerous houses aTe not considered at all. Because of the contradictions involved in such a method of gaining this information, the miners say that they cannot submit their claims to an arbitration court which relies upon such methods and refuses to handle their claims on a better basis. The Statistician also selects 30 country towns in each State from which information is secured on one day in every year from individual butchers, bakers and house agents regarding the predominant prices prevailing in those areas at that particular date. This is the kind of treatment to which the workers have been submitted by the Arbitration Court and it has been on information so’ obtained that wages have been fixed from time to time. In respect of house rents, the court takes as a basis the requirements of a man with a wife and two children. For a long time, the Commonwealth Arbitration Court took as its basis in this respect the requirements of a man with a wife and three children, simply because the late Mr. Justice Higgins said that if we wished to secure a sufficient population with which to hold this country, more consideration would have to bc given to the man with the larger family. But the figure which he arrived at on that basis was less than that which the New South Wales Board of Trade fixed in respect of a man with a wife and two children. We find that the proportions of married and single men are taken to be 60 per cent, married and 40 per cent, single, and the court computes rent on the basis of a fourroomed house. I ask honorable senators to tell me of any part of New South Wales where a worker can secure a four-roomed house at a rental even double the figure which the Commonwealth Statistician takes as his index. Such houses are not available. We find to-day that the workers are compelled to double up ; two families live iu the one house, because one family finds it impossible to get a bouse at the rent, given in the Statistician’s index figure, or to afford one at the rent which is actually charged. Wages, hours and holidays could possibly be dealt with by the Arbitration Court, but the miner3, for the reasons I have stated, will not submit to its adjudication. We appealed to the Prime Minister to arrange a conference to deal with the grievances of the miners. Not only are the miners shortening their lives every time they enter a mine because of the prevalence of dust, but they are also never certain that they Will again reach the surface. The dust nuisance is largely due to incompetent managers. Before a man can be classed as a practical coal miner, he must have worked for two years with another practical and competent coal-miner; but all that is necessary to qualify a man to be a mine manager or inspector is that he shall have worked in or about a mine for five years, and have gained a certificate of competency following a course of book study. That system has produced a crop of managers who have neither practical knowledge of mining nor understanding of the temperament of the miners. It is ridiculous that a man who has had merely a technical school training should be able to dictate to miners of 30 years’ experience and decide whether a mine is safe or unsafe.

Senator Dein:

– Are practical miners ever appointed as inspectors?

Senator ARTHUR:

– Yes, occasionally. In New South Wales most of the inspectors are practical men. They have their own duties to carry out. The requirement of the Act that the . underground travelling road along which the men walk to work shall be kept clean, or watered, is not complied with. That indeed, is one of the complaints of the miners, and it should be investigated. At the Wallerawang Collieries Limited, at Lidsdale, in New South Wales, which has never been in charge of a practical man, the travelling road has been cleaned only once in nine years. The result is that soon after the first four or five men commence to walk into the mine to work there is a cloud of dust extending for 300 or 400 yards. The horses in the mine raise more dust, which also the men are forced to. breathe. The intake airway carries the dust to where the men are working. In that mine there is a man who was one of the finest physical specimens of manhood in Australia. He is married, 32 years of age, and has two children; for ten years he has worked on the face in that mine. Recently he was declared “ dusted “, and now he can look forward to nothing but a lingering and agonizing death. Yet he will have difficulty in obtaining compensation, for the average insurance doctor will compel him to fight for it. An examination of the compensation figures shows how difficult it is for men to receive compensation. Recently I had a conversation with ex-Senator Thompson, who said that he was interested in coalmining in Queensland. He regarded coal-mining as one of the most healthy occupations, and expressed satisfaction at the absence of miners’ phthisis among coal-miners. If that be the opinion of a man who is interested in coalmining, one can understand the ignorance of the general public on the subject. The elimination of danger from dust in coal mines is a matter which should be dealt with by legislation. The time is overdue for a Commonwealth Coal Mines Regulation Act to control coal-mining throughout Australia. At present conditions vary in the different States. There should be uniformity, and I believe that power exists to bring it about.

In New South Wales there is legislative provision for the systematic timbering of mines. Props must be placed at every 6 feet. In the Lithgow district there is heavy firing all day because the coal there is so hard that one man may use as much’ as 5 lb. of dynamite in a day. I asked a mine inspector on one occasion whether I should put another prop a further 3 feet along, and hp replied, “ It is no good splitting straws . The next day I asked the same question of the manager of the mine who was a technical gentleman without practical mining experience. He told me to put a prop 3 feet from the face where I was just about to fire eleven plugs of dyna-mite. That shows the difference between the practical man and the man who has only theoretical knowledge of mining. 1 can confidently say that 90 per cent, of the disputes iri the mines of New South Wales have been caused by theoretical managers - the products of technical colleges - who have no practical knowledge of mining, no understanding of the temperament of miners, no practical sagacity, indeed, no knowledge of what is required.

In my opinion the coal-miners of New South Wales are suffering definitely from dust complaint, and also from hook-worm. The dust complaint is known as pneumoconiosis, a disease of the lungs caused by the habitual inhalation of minute mineral or metallic particles, as of coal dust. I have made a study of hookworm, pr ankylostomiasis. This is a disease caused by the intrusion into the small intestine of nematode worms; and its symptoms are anaemia, digestive disturbances, loss of strength and shortness of breath. In severe cases it may cause prostration and death, but ordinarily the worms can be extruded from the body by the use of medicines. . The adult worms present in the human intestine produce an enormous number of eggs. These eggs cannot develop inside the body, and are therefore discharged from it. In the presence of moisture and the correct temperature, the eggs develop into minute larval worms which live in the contaminated wet soil, mud, or water. I stress that point, because the managers of numbers of mines take no heed of the stagnant water lying about, although it is a breedingground for this disease. These larvae arc capable of penetrating the skin and reaching the veins in which they are carried to the lungs. They then appear to crawl, or to be carried, up the air passages, and thence to pass clown into the stomach. On passing into the intestines, they attach themselves to that part of the body, and develop to the adult stage. Some of the larvae may enter the body by the mouth, but it is probable that infection through the skin is far more common. By this process considerable irritation is caused : it may easily lead to secondary infection and the formation of boils. I stress the formation of boils because of the emphasis placed by some managers on the frequent absence of employees from work. In many instances, such absence is due to boils. The worms enter one by one, but they can neither multiply inside the body, nor bc directly communicated to any other person. The disease is also known as hook-worm disease, and as miners anaemia. During 1917 the International Health Board made an investigation of the literature published on the subject of hook-worm. In Italy it was found that the disease had prevailed for centuries. In 1913 an infection rate of 57 per cent, was found among 23,06>S workers in the sulphur mines of Sicily. According to the French annual report of the International Health Board, Rockefeller Foundation, pages S9 and 92, investigations in France, which covered S2 per cent, of the 144,133 underground miners in the country, showed an infection of 4.6 per cent. Legislation has been introduced to compel mine-owners to meet hospital expenses for the treatment of affected miners. In Belgium., the infections ranged from 5 per cent, to 92 per cent. In the Liege district, of 3,590 men who were examined, 818, or 22.79 per cent., were infected. The fourth annual report of the board showed that of the 72 coal pits in Ohe district, 49 were affected. A survey of six mines in the Netherlands, made in 1904, showed an average infection of 22.05 per cent, among 14,0S9 miners. The infection varied from 15 per cent, to 67 per cent’. In Germany, 32,57.6 miners, or 16.S per cent., were found infected out of a total working force of 194,127 mcn. Of the 234 mines examined, 113 showed evidence of the disease.

In Hungary, of 61,094 underground miners employed, S,400 were examined, and the infection was found to be from S5 per cent, to 100 per cent. In Spain, the infection ranged from 30 per cent, to 95 per cent., whilst in California a survey of the mines in 1916 revealed widespread ‘hook-worm infection. Numbers of cases were found also in Nevada, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia. A significant fact is that the employment, of oriental labour is favorable to the development of this disease. The Pingh Siang colliery, in the Kiangsi province of China, employs 11,916 miners, 62 per cent, of whom are underground workers. They show an infection rate of 85 per cent. In 127 tin mines in England, the rate of infection was 66 per cent. It has been found that temperatures between 68 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, with a certain degree of moisture, provide favorable conditions for the development of hook-worm eggs into larvae.

Senator McBride:

– What is the position in Australia?

Senator ARTHUR:

– Between the 1st June and the 1st September, 1917, Dr. J. H. Waite, Director of the International Health Board, acting on behalf of the Commonwealth, investigated the hook-worm problem in Papua, and his report, dated the 15th February, 1918, showed that there was a marked infection among plantation labourers. The extent of the infection was stated as 60.9 per cent. The report stated that the disease was probably introduced from either Queensland or the East by white plantation labourers. In collaboration with Miss I. L. Neilson, A.T.N.A., Dr. Waite, as reported in the Medical Journal of Australia of the 4th January, 1919, said-

The effects of hook-worm affection upon the mental development of North Queensland school children was serious.

The studies showed that the mental development of school children over a large area of the State was being seriously impaired by the prolonged anaemia and toxima resulting from hook-worm infection. The disease was preying upon 40 per cent, of the total children in Cooktown and Cairns. It is stamping serious mental, physical and sexual degeneracy upon 25 per cent, of the total school population. The tendency of the disease is towards the obliteration of the race through the unsexing of its victims and the reduction of individual resistance to acute infections such as pneumonia or tuberculosis. The disease has already obtained a firm footing in the Commonwealth of Australia.

These diseases have already got a firm footing in Australia. In order to safeguard the health of miners a technical commission should be appointed to investigate among other diseases, the incidence of pneumoconiosis in Australian coal mines. , The commission should be of such scientific importance as to be able to speak authoritatively of the incidence of both diseases which I have mentioned, It should comprise at least four persons of eminence in the scientific world, one of whom should be drawn from an Australian university and be its chairman.

To him should be entrusted the task of elaborating the whole of the commission’s activities. The personnel of that body should include a radiologist to whom should be paid a retainer at the rate of £1,000 per annum, with a minimum payment of £600; a zoologist who could investigate hookworm; a clinician at £10 10s. a day, and a physicist at £70 a month. The services of an efficient staff would be required by the commission. 1 suggest that it should include a physician at a salaryof £700 a year; a bacteriologist at £600 a year; two chemists at £600 a year and £450 a year respectively ; three chemical assistants at £350, £325 and £300 a year respectively; two microscopists at £400 and £300 a year respectively; two laboratory attendants at £300 and £275 a year respectively; two X-ray photographers at £350 and £325 a year respectively, and a. registrar and two clerks at £350, £275 and £250 respectively. In addition, all members of the commission and the staff should receive travelling allowances and living expenses whilst pursuing their investigations away from the centres in which they live. Equipment necessary to carry out the work of the commission would include an X-ray apparatus, costing approximately £800, and subsidiary appliances including at least 7,000 plates, and costing approximately £1,800. The bacteriological and chemical research work of the commission would require laboratory equipment costing approximately £800, but some of this could be obtained from State technical colleges with a consequent reduction of expense. The administrative work of the commission would not be very great. In addition to, the services of the two clerks which I have already mentioned, equipment such as card index systems and filing cabinets, would be necessary for administrative work.

I believe that not less than 6,000 underground workers in New South Wales should be subjected to clinical, radioscopic and bacteriological examination, as well as treatment, if necessary. Examinations could be commenced at Lithgow where excessive “ shooting “ , is carried out, and where as many as 20 pairs of men are . working in the same current of air. When a shot is fired the fumes are carried to all the men working in the vicinity, and as a result probably fifteen per cent, of the miners are suffering from diseases caused by the inhalation of dust. I estimate that the total cost of the commission would be in the vicinity of £30,000. If we could induce the Government to appoint such a body it would be a step in the direction of safeguarding the health of all men who work underground - a fundamental consideration. The miners, for good reason, declare that they cannot accept the findings of. the tribunal which it is proposed shall inquire into their claims, because it uses index figures that are computed on a false basis. Up to the present time their representations have been ignored.

Sitting suspended from 6.1S to 8 p.m.

Senator DEIN:
New South Wales

– Several honorable senators have dealt somewhat exhaustively with the housing problem as it confronts the various State governments, and, perhaps, the Commonwealth Government as well. Senator Collings has annually directed severe criticism against the Commonwealth Government for allowing certain weatherboard cottages at the Causeway to remain occupied. He knows that these dwellings are merely of a temporary nature, and that the fact that they are still inhabited is due to the rapid growth of Canberra and the acute shortage of houses. In his characteristic manner, giving full play to his vivid imagination, he convinced himself at least that these cottages are in a far worse condition than they actually are. He did not mention the efforts of the Government to overcome the housing shortage in Canberra, but I suggest that he should study the building programme which has been carried out during the last three or four years, as well as the Government’s proposals for the future. Between now and December, 1939, the Government intends to build 200 more cottages in Canberra at a cost of £290,000. This is a welcome contribution to the solution of .the housing problem in the national capital, and indicates clearly that the Government recognizes the necessity for action in this direction.”

Senator Cameron referred at some length to housing in Victoria. “I am not familiar with Victorian conditions, but I assume that they are not unlike those obtaining in New South Wales. It would be idle to suggest that this problem’ has received proper attention in recent years in any of the capital cities; but, if Senator Cameron would study the steps taken by the Stevens Government in New South Wales during the last twelve months, he would find that no less a sum than £10,000,000 has been provided for the erection of homes under a government guarantee.

Senator FRASER:

– Including war service homes?

Senator DEIN:

– No; very few war service homes have been built in Sydney for many years. The scheme had its origin in a trip taken by the Premier of New South Wales to England a couple of years ago. There he closely studied the housing methods adopted. Immediately he returned to Australia, cooperative societies were formed, and the Government of which he is the head enjoys the confidence of the people of New South Wales and of the financial institutions to such an extent that a government guarantee was sufficient to induce those institutions, and also private ‘individuals, to advance the sum of £10,000,000 in the course of a year. Under this scheme a home up to the value of £1,000 is provided for a working man who can contribute 10 per cent, of the necessary capital outlay. So successful has the plan proved that the Government has undertaken to widen its scope in order that suitable applicants may be placed in a position to purchase their own homes without any deposit at all.

Senator Fraser:

– What interest is paid

Senator DEIN:

– Five per cent., spread over 21 or 28 years. I was glad to read in the Sydney Morning Herald recently that Senator Keane had spoken in a laudatory fashion regarding the New South Wales scheme. Although he does not owe allegiance to the party in power in New South Wales, he was broadminded enough to recognize the excellent features of the scheme, and to give credit to the State Government for what it had accomplished in’ that direction. Mr. Stevens did not consider, it necessary to approach the Com- mon wealth Government for financial assistance. The Government of New South Wales is not providing the capital required for the undertaking, but is merely giving a guarantee of re-payment to the financial institutions and private individuals who are providing the necessary funds. If the governments of the other States are held in as high regard by the public as is the Stevens Government, they should not find it necessary to ask the Commonwealth Government for financial assistance to solve the housing problem. I commend the scheme to Senator Cameron, and I think he is sufficiently fair-minded to recognize its merit. I hope that he will advise the slow-moving Labour party of Victoria to bring pressure to bear on the government of that State, which Labour maintains in office, to follow the laudable example of New South Wales.

Reference has been made to the unfortunate strike of the coal-miners. Several honorable senators have condemned the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) for not intervening in the dispute, but I point out that an award of the Commonwealth Arbitration Court is in operation which makes it extremely difficult for the right honorable gentleman to suggest that the matter should be taken out of the court’s hands. If he did that, his action might have far-reaching effects. The award which was in operation when the mines were closed is only about thirteen months old, and has a currency of two years. The miners originally asked that it should operate for only one year, but the owners asked that it should have a currency of three years. I understand that the Arbitration Court compromised on the matter by making the period two years. It was expected that industrial peace would prevail in the coal-mining industry for at least two years, but a few weeks ago the trouble came to a head suddenly.

Senator Ashley:

– The Government and the Prime Minister had been warned.

Senator DEIN:

– Only a few weeks before the strike occurred.

Senator Ashley:

– No; in June last the Prime Minister was warned by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) .

Senator DEIN:

– I do not know precisely what the honorable senator means by saying that the Prime Minister was warned. The award has a currency of two yeai-3, and it came into operation in August, 1937.

Although I have not worked in a coalmine I have as much sympathy as my friends opposite have with the miners in their arduous and hazardous task, but, irrespective of our sympathy, awards of the court should be obeyed and agreements should be kept. Otherwise, why should the country be put to the large expense of maintaining the Arbitration Court? I entirely agree with the miners that it is essential to make their work as safe as possible. This is a matter that concerns us all, whether we are considering coal-mines or gold-mines. The Government should see that every precaution is taken to safeguard the lives and health of the miners.

Senator Ashley:

– They want action, not sympathy.

Senator DEIN:

– Because I am a member of the United Australia party, the honorable senator tells his followers that I am devoid of sympathy with the miners. Does the honorable senator suggest that because, he is a Labour man he has a monopoly of sympathy with the workers? I have quite as much sympathy with the miners as has the honorable senator who interjects, but I do not capitalize it to the same degree as he does. The safety and health of the miners are of paramount importance, and the Government should compel the owners to take every precaution to protect them. Immediately before the strike commenced throughout Australia, the Minister for Mines and the Minister for Labour and Industry in New South Wales visited the northern coalfields, and went down into the mines to obtain as much first-hand information as possible in the limited time at their disposal. They submitted a report to the Premier, who gave the undertaking that a tribunal would be set up, and that, if it could be shown that the lives or health of the men were endangered in any way by reason of their occupation, he would introduce remedial measures. That was a fair and honorable proposal, but, unfortunately, the minds of the leaders of the men seemed to be set on a strike.

Senator Abbott:

– That was before the dispute was made interstate.

Senator DEIN:

– Yes. The undertaking by the Government was cast aside, and the coal-miners’ leaders failed to play the game. The claims of the miners are quite another matter. That is the responsibility of the Arbitration Court, which, fourteen months ago made an award, which the miners promised to observe for two years. They had the right to go back to the Arbitration Court and get a further hearing ; but they were not disposed to do so. They even said that if a special tribunal were appointed they wanted a guarantee that the hours and wages question would be determined in the way they desired. Imagine men demanding such a condition ! In effect they said to the Prime Minister, “ Give us A special tribunal with the undertaking that it will fix wages and hours such as we demand.” How could any Prime Minister, whatever his sympathies might bc, do such a thing when a properly constituted court is in existence? A proposal has been made for a resurrection of the Industrial Peace Act, but when that act was passed by the Commonwealth Parliament there was considerable congestion in the Arbitration Court, and, in order to reach a speedy decision a special tribunal was appointed. There is no need for any such appointment at present. Had the Prime Minister set up such a tribunal, is there any guarantee that its award would have been accepted? If we do not believe in industrial arbitration we should scrap the whole system, and find some other means of reaching a. determination ; but while the Arbitration Court is still functioning, and we believe in it, we should abide by its decisions. I am not competent to say whether the hours worked or the wages paid are or are not fair and reasonable. Before such a decision could he made it would be necessary to hear both sides of the story. It is the function of the court to hear both parties to the dispute and then to come to a decision as to what it thinks fair in the circumstances. That is why the arbitration system has done so much for the workers of Australia who are grateful for the benefits they have received. There is another aspect of this subject. A few weeks ago a ballot of the coal-miners in New South

Wales was taken to determine whether the miners would or would not remain with the “” rag-tag “’ of the Labour party or join the “ bob-tails.” That ballotwas conducted, and, because of the miserable record of the Lang party, the miners decided to have nothing to do with that party. Contrast the attitude of the leaders in this crisis. I have a perfect right to -know whether the rank and file believe that they should or should not work under the present award. I now know what they want to do politically because the vote disclosed their wishes; but on this important issue I do not know what their feelings are. Why not give them a ballot on a matter that concerns the welfare and happiness of themselves and their families? Is it not reasonable to expect that the miners who took a ballot a little while ago - it did not matter much either way because neither party is any good - should have an opportunity to say whether they do or do not want to strike? That opportunity was not given because the leaders are extremists. I have the word of the honorable member for West Sydney (Mr. Beasley) who referred to Mr. Nelson in particular as a Communist. That may or may not be correct, but he was one of the men who said to the miners : “ You are not going to -have a ballot on this. I say a strike because it brings us nearer to the position that we are looking for.”

Senator Collings:

– The honorable senator knows that that statement is incorrect.

Senator DEIN:

– To which statement is the honorable senator referring?

Senator Collings:

– That he told the miners that he had ordered a strike.

Senator DEIN:

– I said that he would not give them the opportunity to say whether they did or did not want to strike.

Senator Collings:

– I rise to a point of order. Senator Dein has now used words which he did not use in the first instance. He stated that the man to whom he referred had said, “ We want to strike, and a strike it is going to be “. That statement is untrue.

Senator DEIN:

– That is not a point of order.

The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. J. B. Hayes). - Senator Dein will have to accept the assurance of the Leader of the Opposition that the statement was not made.

Senator DEIN:

– “With due respect to you, sir, I fail to see how a point of order is involved-, but I shall abide by your ruling. This extremist, according to the honorable member for West Sydney did not have the interests of the men sufficiently at heart to give them an opportunity to express their opinions us they had a right to do. I should like to know what the miners think. I am entitled to know their actual opinion in the matter. It has been contended that a special tribunal should be set up to hear the miners’ claims. I believe that the miners’ case is worthy of consideration; but if a special tribunal should give the men a more liberal agreement than they have at present, why should not the railway workers, tramway employees, or any other section of the community, wishing to improve their industrial position, have the right to be heard before a special tribunal? If the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) gave the coal.miners the right to be heard in a specially constituted court, could he refuse to extend a similar right to other sections of the community? It seems to me to be so much piffle and humbug. It is regrettable that this industrial crisis should have arisen, but it does not alter the fact that the Prime Minister, who lias been assailed, told the men that the Arbitration Court was there for them and he pleaded with them to take advantage of it. Unfortunately, their leaders refused to have anything to do with the court because they felt that it might not give them that to which they consider that they are entitled.

I was appalled to learn of the industrial conditions in Western Australia, as outlined by Senator Clothier. I think that that honorable senator should pay some attention to the methods adopted by the Government of New South Wales, which is getting the people of that State out of a difficulty which, a few years ago, was far more intense than has ever been experienced by the people of Western Australia. The honorable senator said that the employment conditions in Western Australia are bad, and, regardless of political considerations, we regret to know that that is the case. Evidently the Government of Western Australia is not tackling the problem as successfully as is the Government of New South Wales. The honorable senator said that the Commonwealth Government should increase taxes in order to hand over to Western Australia money with which to establish a technical education system. He said that that is a national responsibility. The Education Department of New South Wales does not come to the Commonwealth Government for assistance.

Senator Ashley:

– That State is the heaviest borrower of all.

Senator DEIN:

– Not at all. This Government should not tax the people in order to hand over money to State governments to expend on education.

Senator Clothier:

– I never mentioned an increase of taxes.

The PRESIDENT:

– The honorable senator is not entitled to misquote an honorable senator. I refer him to Standing Order No. 410.

Senator DEIN:

– I admit that Senator Clothier did not mention taxation in this respect, but he said that this Government should raise sufficient money to enable certain grants to be made to Western Australia. If that does not mean taxation what does it mean? Additional taxation fields are open to the Western Australian Government and it can raise revenue to spend as it wishes. The honorable senator also referred to the difficulty experienced by boys and girls in that State in finding employment when they leave school. That may be a problem in Western Australia, but it is no longer so in New South Wales. The Government in that State was once faced with the difficulty of finding employment for young men between IS and 25 years, but what did it do? It set these young fellows up in industry as apprentices and subsidized their earnings to a limit of £2 weekly in order to bring their weekly income up to the basic wage. There has been a certain amount of Commonwealth assistance to State governments. The State governments should not rely entirely on the Commonwealth, hut should do something for themselves.

Senator E B Johnston:

– Our problem is much greater in Western Australia because the State Government has to control an area equal to about one-third of the Commonwealth.

Senator DEIN:

– Yes, but the problem in New South Wales in regard to boys and girls is about ten times greater than it is in Western Australia. I regret that more has not been done in Western Australia to overcome this difficulty. I should have thought that with a Labour government in power in that State, the difficulty would have been disposed of by now. If the position in Western Australia is as the honorable senator has represented it, I do not think that the present Government there will last very long. In New South Wales, on the 31st August last, there were 834,572 persons employed, as compared with 838,000 on the 31st July, or a decrease of employed persons of about 4,000 in a month. That decline of employment is certainly to be regretted, but because of it the Labor Daily claims that a depression has started in New South Wales. The real desire of that newspaper is, of course, to lead the people to believe that there is a depression. Whenever there is a little hardship the Labour party, as Senator Leckie said this afternoon, capitalizes it in order to obtain votes. If there is any suggestion of a depression when a nonLabour government is in power, the Labor Daily and Century throw their hats in the air. They rejoice although some unfortunate people are losing their jobs. So soon as there is a slight decline of employment, they proclaim the fact in bold headlines, but whenever there is a slight increase of employment they remain silent. These labour newspapers adopt a similar attitude in respect of developments which affect the welfare of Australia as a whole. When Australia overcomes a national difficulty they say nothing, but whenever a slight economic reverse occurs, that fact is set forth in bold headlines, purely with the intention of capitalizing the misfortune of the Commonwealth as a whole, and the ill-fate of some unfortunate individual Australians. It cannot be denied that between the 31st July and the 31st August last, the number of unemployed in New South Wales increased by 4,000. However, the percentage of unemployed in that State to-day is 5.8 per cent., whereas a few years ago, when the Lang Government was in power, a government which honorable senators opposite did not dare to criticize, it was 33 per cent. Because, owing to circumstances over which we have no control, there has been a slight increase of unemployment, supporters of the Labour party, for political purposes, endeavour to make the people believe that we are heading for another depression. I agree with Senator Cameron that this slight reverse has been due principally to the present uncertain international situation, and to the decline of prices for our wool and wheat. I agree entirely with Senator Cameron’s suggestion that this Government should, at the next meeting of the Loan Council, be prepared to loosen its purse strings a little in order to see that unemployment is not further increased. It is up to this Government to provide the States with means to undertake public works programmes with the object of absorbing those unfortunate men who have temporarily, at any rate, lost their jobs. This is the time to take such action.

I propose now to deal with the remark made by Senator Keane that when legislation to give effect to the Premiers plan was passed in this Parliament, it was supported 100 per cent, by members of the United Australia party and the Country party in this chamber. I agree with that statement, but I point out that although the Labour party as a whole agreed to the introduction of that, measure, many members of that party squibbed the issue when it came before Parliament. Senator Keane was in error when he said that members of the United Australia party and the Country party in this Parliament condemned the Scullin Government for introducing the financial emergency legislation. Nothing of the kind occurred. The members of those two parties right throughout the length and breadth of New South Wales commended the Premiers plan. I admit that they criticized the Scullin Government for its delay in introducing legislation to give effect to that plan, but they supported the plan itself. Let us recall who it was who actually condemned it.

Senator Brown:

– Hitler !

Senator DEIN:

– Yes, the Hitler of New South Wales, Mr. Lang, who signed the Premiers plan, yet agreed that his lieutenant in this Parliament should cross the floor and defeat the Scullin Government when it introduced legislation to give effect to it. Senator Keane should have told the whole of the story; he should have mentioned that members of the Labour party defeated the Scullin Government on that occasion and that the then Premier of New South Wales went from end to end of that State condemning the plan and the Scullin Government for endeavouring to give effect to it. Although Mr. Lang had signed the plan, he was not man enough to say so. In New South Wales, at any rate, he did more than anybody else to defeat the Scullin Government on that issue. What happened in this respect in Victoria I do not know, but I presume that much the same thing occurred there. It was not the members of the United Australia party and the United Country party who opposed that legislation, but members of the Labour party, who supported the Premiers plan, actually signed it, and then “ turned dog “ on the Scullin Government,giving rise to a fight inside the Labour party which has continued ever since. I recall that at that time the Leader of the Opposition (Senator Collings) spent much of his time in New South Wales in endeavouring to quell the riot, but even he, with all his optimism and enthusiasm, was obliged to return to Queensland in disgust.

Some of the remarks by honorable senators opposite concerning the two very important matters of housing and the coal-mining dispute impelled me to say something at this stage, but my remarks on other matters I shall defer until we are dealing with the budget.

Senator SHEEHAN (Victoria) [8.391. - In addressing the Senate for the first time - to me a memorable occasion -I paya personal tribute to the man whose mantle has fallen upon ray shoulders. Honorable senators generally have paid a tribute to the memory of the late Senatorelect John Barnes. He and I were associated in both the political and indus trial wings of the Labour movement, and his demise was a very severe personal loss to me. I have been selected to take his place in this chamber, and I hope that throughout my political career I shall be able to emulate his steadfast loyalty to duty and the principles of the great party which ho served for so long and so faithfully.

I propose to deal with an interjection that was made by an honorable senator opposite when Senator Cameron, in his excellent speech, was dealing with the present dispute on the coal-fields. It was to the effect that we could have a revolution at least every three years through the ballot-box. The composition of this chamber at the moment suggests that such a revolution took place only a few months ago. At the last election for the Senate the people of Australia, untrammelled by electoral boundaries, overwhelmingly decided in favour of the party represented by the Opposition.

Senator Dein:

– That was thealphabetical revolution.

Senator SHEEHAN:
VICTORIA

– No; the intellectuals of Australia decided the issue. I feel quite certain that honorable senators opposite must feel relieved that there has been an accession of strength to the Opposition, because the company of honorable senators supporting the Government in the past must have been rather boring. Now the voice of Labour is once again being heard in this chamber. In recent years, Government supporters, holding the balance of power, saw to it that the voice of Labour as represented by our few predecessors in this chamber was heard as infrequently as possible. At last, the holiday enjoyed by senators of the Commonwealth for the last seventeen or eighteen years has ended. Honorable senators opposite will in future be obliged to be in their places, and their Whip will have something to do. I have heard it said that the Senate was a place into which the hob-nailed boots of Labour would never enter, and, more recently, a Minister of the Crown said that it was a place where old men drowsed in their beards ! When I entered this chamber as a new senator I looked for gentlemen with beards. I found only one left and, judging by the virility with which he addressed this chamber yesterday, I feel sorry that there are not a few more greybeards like my leader.

Senator Dein waxed indignant at the tact that the Labour party is espousing the cause of the coal-miners in the present dispute. He resented the suggestion that the Prime Minister of Australia should call the contending parties together in an endeavour to reach a settlement, but I maintain that it is the fluty of the Prime Minister to do that much in a time of crisis. In this respect, the Prime Minister of Great Britain has set an example by trying to mediate between the contending parties to the present dispute in Europe, because he is moved by an earnest desire to avert the conflict which threatens us. Surely, then, it would not have been wrong for the Prime Minister of Australia to intervene in an industrial dispute in this country. Frequent reference has been made to the Arbitration Court and its position in regard to the dispute. The Arbitration Court may be compared with the tribunal that was set, up by the nations of the world to settle international disputes. I .refer to the League of Nations. At the present time, the world is threatened with a situation of such gravity that responsible men are almost afraid to utter a word for fear that a conflict might bc precipitated. But has the dispute been referred to the League of Nations? No. There is a general recognition of the fact that the situation is unprecedented, and new methods are demanded. For that reason, the Prime Minister of Great Britain has intervened between contending parties in the hope that an agreement may be reached. Surely it was the duty of the Prime Minister of Australia, especially in view of the grave international situation, to intervene in the coal dispute, and try to bring about a settlement. Why is it that honorable senators opposite are at the moment disposed to place such confidence in the Arbitration Court? They represent the very interests which consistently opposed the Arbitration Court, when it was presided- over by the late Mr. Justice. Higgins, who tried to raise the workers from the economic abyss and place them in a position in which .they might enjoysome of the good things of life. Time and time again, the authority of the Arbitration Court was challenged in the

High Court of Australia. Every thingpossible was done to prevent the Arbitration Court from hearing the cases brought before it. Appeals were even carried to the Privy Council, and the workers spent thousands of pounds in the fight to preserve their industrial rights. It is strange, indeed, that the representative’s of those interests which were at that tune so hostile to the Arbitration Court should now be pretending to see much virtue in it. Of course, the real reason is that the Arbitration Court to-day can be relied upon to act in a very different manner from that in which it previously acted. Mr. Justice Higgins fixed a basic wage which at the time did ensure a measure of security and comfort to the workers, but he admitted that even he had not gone far enough. He believed that the standard which he had laid down was not sufficiently high to enable the ordinary nian to maintain himself and his. family in decency and comfort. Today, however, the workers are actually worse off than they were under the Higgins Award. In comparison with the increased productivity of labour, wages have been reduced. They have not the same value as had the wages of some years ago. Men have been appointed to the Arbitration Court bench who have tinkered with the method of computing the basic wage, and it is because of the prejudice of such judges, particularly in respect of hours, that the court has become anathema to the workers. What are the miners demanding? They arc asking for increased wages, a shorter working week, the introduction of safety measures, and for pensions in their old age so that the older men may retire and make way for others. Are those demands peculiar to the miners? Are they even peculiar to the workers of Australia? Certainly not. Those are the demands of the workers throughout, the world, because, the problems confronting industry are everywhere the same. Because of the mechanization of industry, similar demands are being made in every country. It is because of this problem that the nations are in arms to-day. That is why. despite the fact that millions of men were killed in the last war less than a generation ago, we are afraid now that a fresh conflict may break out at any moment. 1 happen to have studied this subject of the basic wage and a shorter working week. Senator Dein would have the people believe that the arguments in favour of fewer working hours represent merely the vapourings of irresponsible Labour men ; that we are willing to capitalize the present industrial dispute for the sake of whatever political kudos we may be able to get out of it. That is a slander on the great Australian Labour movement.

Senator Dein:

– It applies 100 per cent, to New South Wales.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– It does not apply anywhere. This matter transcends political considerations. ‘ I have here a copy of a work by Wayne W. Fairish on the subject of Technocracy. There is in the United States of America an organization of engineers who have been studying this problem. It is an independent body, free from the taint of Labour politics. These engineers have brought in a report which refers to conditions in the United States of America, one of the greatest industrial countries of the world, and a country in which there is no political Labour party. This is what they say: -

The United States is much nearer a complete industrial collapse as a result of the events of the last three years, than the vast majority of its citizens realize. -Our entrepreneurs’ and political leaders have believed so steadfastly and for so long that America is incapable of anything except a continuous onrush to prosperity and overexpanding development that they have been- either blind to, or unaware of, the vast technological forces which have been steadily undermining, particularly in the past two decades, our present haphazard industrial system of uncontrolled production, competition and distribution. In order to understand this viewpoint of Technocracy and approach the method of reasoning of its members who see modern machinery carrying our social mechanism at an ever increasing pace it is necessary to review briefly the tremendous increase in speed which is characteristic of modern production. As we view these facts we cannot fail to note that as the machine improves we como nearer and nearer to the elimination of all human employment.

The ancient miller of Athens or Rome ground out in a day, between his two crude milling stones, a barrel to a barrel and half of indifferent flour. A modern flour mill in Minneapolis produces 30,000 barrels a day per man with a much shorter day and a much better flour. But for whom?

A shoemaker of ancient Rome took five and ft half days to make a pair of shoes. The 7,200 shoemakers in the Shoemakers’ Guild of Roman days would make only 7,200 pairs of shoes in five and a half days. The same number of employees in a modern shoe plant in five mid a half days would produce 595,000 pairs of shoes. But for whom?

The brickmakers for over 5,000 years never attained on the average of more than 450 bricks a day per man - a day being over ten hours. A modern straight-line continuous brick plant will produce 400,000 bricks a day per nian.

Even a century ago in these United States one man produced 25 tons of pig iron each year, while it took another man a year to produce SOO tons of iron ore. In 1929 we mined on the Mesabi Range at the rate of 20.000 tons per man per year and in four weeks moved a greater tonnage than that of the Khufu Pyramid at Gizeh, while our modern blast furnace technique has made it possible foi one man to-day to produce 4,000 tons of pig iron per annum.

A photograph of a modern steel rolling mill in full operation will show a large plant without a human being on the floor.

It is after sober, scientific review of such facts that our engineers report that we are faced with the threat of national bankruptcy and perhaps general chaos within eighteen months. This threat is revealed as a result of the researches of Technocracy, a functional organization of engineers which has been studying our industrial and agricultural complex for more than a decade. The results of that study and analysis, which for the first time in human history applies a quantitive measure to the social mechanism, leads to an unqualified statement that there is no solution under a price system.

That is the condition towards which we are drifting. That is the genesis of the claim for a shorter working week, and to dismiss that claim, whether put for- ward by the miners, or by any other section of the workers, as something which exists only in the minds of Labour politicians, is to show a complete lack of understanding of economic conditions as they exist to-day. We must apply our intelligence to this problem. We condemn the present Government because it has utterly failed to grapple with the problem insofar as it affects Australia. What has it done to meet the demand for a shorter working week?

Senator Dein:

– It offered an inquiry.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– The time has long since passed for an inquiry. Already we have had inquiry after inquiry. Unless there is a shortening of the working week, a better distribution of the wealth that is produced, and a removal of the causes of unemployment, these problems will not be discussed in chambers such as this, but there will be another form of government, not so palatable to any of us. The Lyons Government could do something. After the return to Australia of Sir Frederick Stewart, the honorable member for Parramatta in the House of Representatives, who, acting on instructions from the Government, supported a shorter working week at the Geneva Conference, the Labour movement submitted a demand that that reform be introduced in Australia. Then the supporters of the Government began to quibble. They suggested that the reduction might be unconstitutional. If the Government were sincere in its desire to introduce a shorter working week, it could begin in a place where the constitutionality of its action could not be questioned ; it could start with its own employees. Recently some federal public servants associated with the post office and other branches of the Public Service ventilated their grievances before a tribunal - a constitutional body of which we have heard a great deal from the Prime Minister and his supporters during the last few days. The Government could institute a shorter working week among its own employees, but what has it done to set an example to the other employers of this country? I remind the Senate that there is nothing sacrosanct about the 44-hour working week, for already we have industries in ° Australia with a working week of less than 40 hours. Recently the railway workers with whom I have been associated for a number of years, exercised their right to appear before a” constitutional tribunal, with the result that the working hours of certain grades of employees .were reduced to 42 hours a week. Further reductions are being sought. In Western Australia, where a Labour government is in power, numbers of railway employees work only 36 hours a week. The demand for a 40-hour working week is nothing new. How can there be peace among the nations when there is not peace in industry? There never can be peace while the struggle for profits continues. The Arbitration Court has taken the stand that it will not interfere with profits. It has not adopted that attitude of its own volition, however; it lias been forced to do so by legislation introduced by this Government. The Labour party stands for arbitration untrammelled by the legalism which to-day is crippling the system. Senator Dein has asked why a special tribunal - should be established for the coal-mining in-, dustry. It may be news to the honorable senator that the railway men of Victoria are working under a special tribunal created under the federal arbitration law. Why should not a similar tribunal be established to deal with the coal-mining industry? The Railways Classification Board, which is presided over by a County Court judge, consists of representatives of both employers and employees, and another who represents the general public. Because of its composition, that tribunal is able to deal with all the ramifications of a complex industry, covering over 500 different grades of workmen. Honorable senators can readily understand how impossible it would be for one man to deal effectively with all the various aspects of transportation. I visualize similar difficulties in connexion with coal-mining. I have visited Wonthaggi, in Victoria, where coal is produced in considerable quantities, although the output is not equal to that of the coal mines of New South Wales. While there, I availed myself of the opportunity to investigate, to a limited extent, the conditions of employment. Notwithstanding my industrial experience and association with various phases of industry, I readily admit that it would take me a long time to grasp the details associated with coal-mining in that State. Yet it is lightly suggested that a man who, possibly, has never been 10 feet below the surface of the earth and would be afraid of contracting miners’ phthisis if he descended 100 feet into a mine, should determine the wages and conditions of coal-miners. I trust that honorable senators opposite will urge the Government to set in motion the machinery which will bring the parties together.

During the election campaign honorable senators supporting the Government, particularly those belonging to - the Country party, frequently referred to the awful fate which would overtake Australia if the Labour party were placed in power. They never remind the electors of what the Labour party accomplished during the only three years that it governed Australia.

Senator Foll:

– We have told the electors what the Scullin Government did.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– Labour was in power in Australia for only a little over three years, from 1910 to 1913. I suggest that those were three of the brightest years that Australia has known. There was then no need for assisted immigration to Australia, because the progress of the country was such that people flocked here of their own accord.

Senator Darcey:

– The Labour Government established the Commonwealth Bank.

Senator SHEEHAN:

– Government supporters never remind the electors of the wonderful achievements of the Labour party. Indeed, I have heard Sir George Pearce, who until recently was a member of the Senate, decry the Commonwealth Bank, although in previous years he proudly claimed to be largely responsible for -its creation. Honorable senators opposite wish the electors to judge the Labour party by what happened when that party endeavoured to govern Australia with one hand tied behind its back and influences at work to ensure that it should not govern. I venture to suggest that if, during the regime of the Scullin Ministry, the Labour party in the Senate had been as strong numerically as it now is, the tragedy that then overtook . Australia would never have occurred. Honorable senators opposite, who fear the result of reducing the working week and increasing the basic wage, ure confronted with the difficulty of disposing of Australia’s surplus production. The wheat-farmers of Australia are looking for relief, and certainly they are in a desperate position. Something must be done if this important primary industry is not to be swept out of existence.

Senator McLeay:

-Is that why honorable senators suggest a working week of 30 hours?

Senator SHEEHAN:

– Yes. Honorable senators opposite are seeking something which, is illusory, while overlooking the fact that the best market is the local market. It would pay the farmers of this country handsomely if the workers, instead of being either unemployed or in receipt of exceedingly low wages, were employed in industry at good rates of pay, for then they would be able to purchase larger quantities of primary products.

Senator McBride:

– What!

Senator SHEEHAN:

Senator McBride knows nothing of the tribulations of the workers during the last depression. He probably does not know that there were thousands of instances of two or more families trying to live on the income of one worker. He possibly did not come in contact with fathers who, in addition to maintaining their own homes, endeavoured to assist married sons or daughters who were hit hard by the depression. He hae never experienced the difficulty of trying to make ends meet on a miserable pittance reduced by Arbitration Court judges to 10 per cent, below what Mr. Justice Higgins regarded as only sufficient to keep a man and his wife and children in the most meagre comfort. Evidently Senator McBride has not studied these problems and does not realize the time of travail through which many people in this country have passed. We, on this side, ask the supporters of the Government to take action to avoid a recurrence of such conditions. If honorable senators opposite, and the Government they support, will assist us to put men into employment by reducing working hours, and if they will help us to increase the basic wage, it will not be necessary for primary producers to seek help from Commonwealth funds. Honorable senators on this side of the chamber came here, as the Leader of the Opposition said yesterday, not merely to oppose, not merely to offer destructive criticism, but hoping by their presence and their numbers to be able to assist the. Government to do something to rehabilitate this great country. We believe that Australia is one of the greatest countries of the world, that it can be developed, and that its people can enjoy peace and contentment if we are prepared to play our part. I hope that, as the result of the remarks that have fallen from the lips of the new senators on this side of the chamber, honorable senators opposite will impress upon those whom they ‘ represent thatthere is a case for Labour, and that there is something they can do to bring about the improved conditions to which I have referred.

Senator ABBOTT:
New South Wales

– I have listened with very great interest to this debate, which I am bound to say has been illuminating. In making the acquaintance of a number of new senators, with whom we are destined to be associated for some years, we are naturally curious as to the characteristics and calibre of the honorable gentlemen who have been sent here to represent the Labour party. Although I cannot find myself in entire agreement with many of the sentiments expressed by honorable senators opposite, 1 hope that I may be allowed, without any suspicion that I am attempting to be patronizing, to congratulate the new recruits upon the tone of their speeches and, from their point of view, the excellent way in which they have put their case. Senator Arthur gave us a very interesting picture of the life and hardships of the men engaged in the coalmining industry. For my part, notwithstanding the discouraging suggestion that we who are not of the Labour party have only sympathy to offer to those engaged in that perilous and unpleasant occupation, I say that I would not like to be a miner, nor would I care to see a son of mine spend his life in the bowels of the earth if it were possible for him to have a job in the beautiful sunlight. Although f have no desire to say much about the mining dispute, a subject which has already been debated almost threadbare, I should like to comment on the idea which seems to pervade the minds of some honorable senators and some of the rank and file population of mining centres that a shorter working week is desirable in order that the youth who is unable, unfortunately, to get any other start in life, may be placed in employment in the mines. God help those young men; although I know mining is a necessary and useful occupation I hope that they will never have to go into the mines. I also wish to enter what I think is a fair protest against the tone of the speeches of some honorable senators who seemed to me to be focussing, not their own spleen, but the criticisms of outsiders upon the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) as though he were in some way responsible for the present unhappy position in the coal-mining .industry. Whatever the outcome of this dispute may be - and I hope a peaceful settlement will be reached before long - 1 trust that honorable senators and leaders of parties outside will at least refrain from unfair tactics against the Prime Minister. No fair-minded person, viewing the attitude that the right honorable gentleman has taken up in the very difficult circumstances with which the country is faced at the present time, can for a moment suspect him of being devoid of sympathy and conscience. This gentleman, who has been said to have not enough of the milk of human kindness to cause him to take certain action desired by the miners, had at least the moral courage to call upon the nation to ask for Divine guidance on a day of prayer for the peaceful settlement of the .international difficulty. One who attempts, not only to break down international difficulties, but also to lay the sectarian monster by the ears by calling on all sections of Christian thought in this country to unite in prayer. for Divine guidance in these difficult times, cannot be charged with any want of sympathy for the miners in their present position. During his speech this afternoon, Senator Arthur certainly enlightened me as to the conditions which operate in the mines. I do not hesitate to say that, no one desires conditions to be continued which result in serious injury to the health and the lives of the men engaged in industry. I did not rise to debate that matter at length; I merely ask honorable senators to refrain from unfair criticism of the Prime Minister who, in a very trying time in the history of this country, is doing” his best for the nation, for the peace of the world, and for industrial peace. No matter how we may differ from him politically, we must all admit that he is an honest, good man.

I was rather interested in some remarks made by honorable senators regarding the changed position of the parties in this Senate. Senator Sheehan reminded mc of an interjection which I made when Senator Cameron was speaking with regard to democracy. I am glad that he is able to appreciate the fact that under the democratic system that operates in this country we are able to have such political revolutions as that to which my honorable friend referred. Over and over again I have strongly drawn the attention of honorable senators and of the press to the priceless heritage which Ave of the British Commonwealth of Nations enjoy in our right of exercising the democratic instrument of government. I have said I believe that, in political evolution, the British people, in the use of that democratic instrument, are probably several hundred years ahead of all others. Senator Cameron referred to its use in other countries, but I think he missed the point of my interjection, by which I intended to convey that none of the totalitarian countries had ever succeeded in using democratic institutions as the British people have been able to do. The honorable senator pointed out that if wo could not find, employment for youths, such a state of dissatisfaction might arise as would cause a swing away from our democratic methods of government, perhaps towards something like the dictatorships in other countries. My contention is that other countries have never really proved themselves able to use the democratic system of government, that priceless heritage which Ave Britishers should jealously preserve. We are proud of the fact that our country is free; we are proud of our free institutions.

I want to say a few words on the functions of the Senate. I have, on other occasions, pointed out that the Senates of other countries have perhaps occupied a stronger position in the minds of the people than has the Australian Senate. We have heard, at times, a good deal of adverse criticism of this chamber, and no doubt it is a healthy devolopment that the strength of parties is more even than it had been in recent years. This should result in keener and better debates and a more thorough examination of the legislation submitted to us. As long as the party which happens to be in power has a sufficient working majority, no one can quarrel with the existence of a strong Opposition. It reflects a healthy state of affairs in any country.

Why does not this Senate occupy the position intended foi* it in the direction of Commonwealth affairs? As party representation in this chamber is now fairly evenly divided, it is probable that in future the work done by this branch of the legislature will be less formal tha t it has been in recent years. Its importance as a chamber of review must, I think, rest Avith senators themselves. In this connexion Ave have the analogy of the Senate of the United States of America. Although under the Constitution of the Republic the Senate occupies a position’ similar to that of this chamber under our Constitution, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which examines very closely the trend of foreign policy, has made the Senate all-powerful in determining relations between the United States of America and other countries. This chamber, too, could, if it wished, exercise many more functions than it has in the past. Too often it has been accounted by people outside as a legislative body which does little more than endorse the decisions of the House of Representatives. I submit that the Senate has the remedy in its own hands. There is no reason why it should not exercise a very great influence in the affairs of the nation. People sometimes speak of the work done by the pioneers of this country and give one the impression that, in popular estimation, that phase of our development has passed. This is by no means true. There is still much pioneering to be done, and this Senate, I suggest, can give a lead to the nation in regard to many matters that come before us for decision from time to time. We, too, can be the pioneers of generations succeeding us and they, in their turn, may be pioneers in relation to those who will come after them. When all the peoples of the earth have developed their respective countries to the full, there will still be difficult, perilous and heart-breaking but nevertheless worthy pioneering tasks to be done in the interests of the world as a whole. Such pioneering will be work not for weaklings or for those who are apt to give up in despair before an actual start is made, but for persons with the stoutest hearts and the most, indomitable spirit. It will not be work for the hidebound or socalled brilliant intellectual scholars who although they may have acquired “knowledge and are highly trained, have not developed the wisdom and. energy of the true pioneer. The real pioneer does no: look for fame for himself or the applause of his fellows, but works for the welfare of all sections of the people in the. country.

Senator Keane:

– That is the ideal Labour man.

Senator ABBOTT:

- Senator Keane has suggested that such a person would be the ideal Labour man; I prefer to regard him as the ideal citizen. I welcome the presence here of new senators opposite and I am prepared to work with thom as good Australians, although I shall probably differ with them in no uncertain manner when occasion arises. Pioneers - we may be pioneers in the legislative arena - often have to face ridicule and perhaps persecution, but in their steadfast endeavour to achieve something for the good of the nation they find exhilaration, and may enjoy a deep sense of privilege. The true pioneer will not give up in the face of difficulties ; he . will continue, with a smile, to work for the welfare of his people and for what he believes to be right. I give my friends opposite all due credit for their sincere desire to benefit those whom they represent here, and I join with them in an. endeavour to do good for the people of Australia and of the world.

At this time we are living in a world in which conditions change almost daily. The time has come when, apart from all political consideration, we must determine, first and foremost, to be good Australians. If we have to face dangerous and difficult situations - and it seems likely we may have to do so - we must work not for sectional interests, but for the good of the nation.

Senator Amour:

– That is to keep Australia out of war.

Senator ABBOTT:

– A man may have to be a genius, or perhaps greater than “ a god “, to keep Australia out of war. I am sure we all sincerely hope that there will be no war. I do not think any one could accuse me of being in any sense a war-monger. I believe I can claim to have done as much for international understanding as has any other honorable senator in this chamber. I was much impressed by an address given by Major-General James G. Harbord, Chairman of the Board Radio Corporation of America, at a conference of radio men of the world held in Sydney during the New South Wales sesquicentenary celebrations. In that address MajorGeneral Harbord said -

For in the threadless needle that Marconi forged lies the one great hope of repairing the international discord born so many ages ago on the Tower of Babel - misunderstandings among the peoples of the world which lingered, seemingly irreparable, until the father of radio sped the spark from Cornwall to Newfoundland. In the shadow of Sydney’s noble bridge, may we say that he laid the first span of a bridge between all nations; a link invisible but stronger than the toughest steel, on which common viewpoints and understandings girdle the universe, making New York a suburb of Sydney, Rhodesia a neighbour of Spitsbergen, and enabling a diamond cutter in Amsterdam to lift his telephone and exchange trade news with a diamond minor at Kimberley.

The most fabulous magic recorded in the Bible is no more astounding to a reflective intelligence than the routine performance at broadcasting stations in a dozen lands as they daily assemble the seven races of man in a town meeting, at which, pray God, we shall in time form a mutual resolve for peace on earth and goodwill between men. Some day our civilization will ride to calm and safe anchorage on Hertzian waves.

The greatest curse laid upon humanity since Adam was chased from Eden was the confusion of tongues and the consequent incapacity of great ethnic groups to reach the common understanding which only common speech can clarify. I foresee, even if I shall not behold, the hour when radio, in its destined function of supreme schoolmaster, will have taught us all to speak one intelligible language. Electrical impulses, intercepted and reconverted into sight and sound, will one day be the type and illustrations of a universal newspaper, graphically, impartially and instantaneously informing the world, then grown small, of social, scientific and political developments. The strongholds of ignorance, suspicion and bigotry, from which spring the poisons of war, shall be levelled by factual proofs which every eye can comprehend and every caT may hear.

I was struck by the plea made a few days ago by the Attorney-General (Mr. Menzies) for the use of radio in consultations between various governments within the Empire in order to secure a better understanding of Empire problems. I agree with what the Attorney-General said, but why should we confine the use of radio within these limits? Why not make it the vehicle of understanding among all the peoples of the earth as Major-General Harbord and others have suggested? We are faced with a serious crisis in the affairs of the world. As Prime Ministers consider it wise to remain silent, it is as well that private members of Parliament should follow their example. All I shall say is that if this country is to do its duty we must all stand together. No matter what our individual opinions or political shibboleths may be, we must try to preserve the wonderful heritage of democracy which at least affords us the right of expression in contradistinction to other systems which involve repression and suppression.

Whilst I do not desire to be thought guilty of patronizing, I offer my congratulations to several of the new members of this chamber who yesterday and to-day have made very effective and interesting maiden speeches. I trust that in the keenness of debate in the future, and in our desire to help those who have sent us here, we shall remember, in these days of serious crisis, that we are, first and foremost, Australians, and proud of our free British heritage, and that we should pull together for the solidarity, concord and strengthening of the nation in whatever trials it has to face.

Senator ARMSTRONG:
New South Wales

– I am glad of the opportunity at last to enter this chamber which filled a very large place in my boyhood dreams. On my first visit to this chamber years ago, the hope was born in me that I might be able, some time, to serve my party in this place to the fullest extent of my ability. The day has come when I can begin to do so. I trust that I may render service which will be creditable to both my party and myself. We are all aware that the regard in which the Senate is held by the public at large is not as high as it might be. What I have seen in the few days in which I have attended the sittings of the Senate is not exactly what I expected to see, and I have been’ forced to the conclusion that the public has been very kind in its criticism. That, at any rate, is my humble opinion. Yesterday the members of the Labour party maintained the debate in this chamber for many hours on end. Not a single supporter of the Government saw fit to speak. If I may be pardoned for the comparison, I felt that I was in a graveyard looking upon tombstones. Suddenly I was shocked, for a ghost arose, in the person of Senator Leckie. I was pleased that the honorable senator participated in the debate for it gave me an opportunity to sum up the relative ability of men who, in a measure, control the affairs of Australia. I do not wish to develop that point at any length, and I have no desire to introduce personalities into the debate - that is quite against my practice - yet I must say that if the honorable senator’s speech is to be regarded as representative of the quality and calibre of Government supporters then they are certainly not’ of the best.

The first statement that Senator Leckie made to which I object was that the representatives of the Labour party are always looking for discontent, and are only happy when they find it. I wish to nail down that lie at once. We do not look for discontent. If honorable senators knew as much about the industrial districts of Australia as we do, and if they had to meet industrial workers day after day and week after week as we meet them, they would realize that it is not necessary to search for discontent in Australia to-day. What I have said applies with even more force to the members of the House of Representatives. I have been closely associated with their work for some years, and they are brought up against an extraordinary amount of the unhappiness and discontent which are rife in Australia. None are so blind as those who will not see. If Senator Leckie is to be regarded as the spokesman of the Government in this connexion, I am sorry for the Government. Possibly the discontent has grown to such enormous proportions and is so close to the eye of honorable senators opposite that they cannot recognize it. In the metropolitan district of Sydney in the last six months or so there have been more callers at the homes of members of the House of Representatives and of my colleagues in this chamber than at any time since 1931-32, when the country was in the depth of the depression.

For some reason which I cannot understand government expenditure has almost stopped. Commonwealth and State governments alike seem frightened to spend money even on reproductive works. They will not put money into circulation in order that the threatened recession, which is so often referred to in the press, inay be averted.

Senator McLeay:

– What about the promises made to the people by the Labour party?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– The Labour party is prepared to have the strongest searchlight thrown upon its activities, for it has nothing to hide. If the Lyons Government could say the same thing it would be in a much happier position. As Senator Sheehan has said., the Labour party has been in office in the Federal Parliament for only three of the 37 years of federation. Yet everything that honorable senators opposite are proud of to-day was initiated by the Labour Government. I ask honorable gentlemen opposite to name a single legislative enactment for which the Lyons Government hae been responsible that has been of any material benefit to the majority of the people of Australia.

Senator McLeay:

– Our Government increased the rate of invalid and old-age pensions which the Scullin Government had reduced.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Surely the honorable senator is aware that the original Invalid and Old-age Pensions Act was placed upon the statute-book at the behest of the Labour party many years ago when it held the balance of power. If that is the best reply the honorable senator can make to my question he should remember the old adage “ Silenceis golden “.

Senator Collings:

– Every man in the parties opposite who has been of any value had “ ratted “ from the Labour party.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

Senator Leckie said that he could not follow the logic of the members of the Opposition. We cannot help that. We can only expound the facts. We cannot give the honorable senator the brains to understand them.

Senator McLeay:

– Why not stick to principles and leave personalities alone?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

Senator Leckie set the pace.

Senator Collings:

– Yes; he made a grossly personal attack.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

Senator Leckie painted a very rosy picture of the doings of this Government, but I declare without hesitation that, since the Lyons Government came into office in 1931-32, the rich have grown richer and the poor poorer. I shall endeavour to prove that statement. Only last week we were informed that the Government intended to increase the rate of sales tax; but it seemed to be very little interested in imposing a. reasonable land tax on landowners. To-day the federal land tax is yielding only 45 per cent, of the amount it yielded when it was first imposed. When the Lyons Government reduced the rate of land tax some years ago, it endeavoured to convince the people of Australia that its action was intended to relieve the poor primary producers of a burden that was weighing heavily upon them, yet we all know that 70 per cent, of the land tax is paid by the owners of city properties.

SenatorFoll. - I think a statement to that effect was made in the budget.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– One of the purposes for which the land tax was originally imposed was defence; yet this Government has seen fit to increase the sales/tax rather than the land tax in order to provide money for defence purposes.

Senator Dein:

– The main purpose for which the federal land tax was introduced was to burst up large estates.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– That was only one purpose. Senator Leckie endeavoured to create the impression that the United Australia party and the Country party were fitted by some divine qualification for the purpose of government and that the Labour party was not fit to govern. Yet since the Lyons Government has been in office the public debt has increased by £120,000,000.

Senator Dein:

– The Commonwealth debt has decreased but the State debts have increased.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Both have increased out of all proportion since the . Lyons Government has been in office.

Senator McLeay:

– Yet the honorable senator has just said that governmental expenditure has been unduly reduced.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– My point is that the people of Australia have not benefited as they should have dono by government expenditure.

Senator McLeay:

– Did the pensioners not benefit by the increase of the rate of pension. ?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Yes, but the increase should have been granted three years earlier. Every assistance has been given to the big business interests which stand solidly behind the Country party and the United Australia party. Unquestionably, practically all the federal rax remissions have gone to the large city interests. Even the Bank of New South Wales has claimed that it benefited to the extent of about £33,000 in one year alone by’ remissions of federal land tax. When we see these benefits -being handed out to the wealthy section, and the prices of the necessaries of life increasing to such an extent that the wage increases granted by the Commonwealth Arbitration Court are completely negatived, we ask ourselves who is giving orders to the Government to carry out a certain policy.

Senator Dein:

– Who is?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Eoi- many months the miners have .been seeking a conference with the mine-owners, but, immediately before the strike was declared, the secretary to the Mine Owners Association declared that the Commonwealth Government had no right to intervene. The Government has not intervened, and it will not do so, because the mineowners have told them to keep out of the dispute.

I admit that the Arbitration Court drew up a set of conditions which were to operate for two years, but the miners were not alone in breaking the award. Were they expected to stand idly by while hundreds of their fellow-workers were being thrown on the industrial scrapheap? The procedure adopted by the men in connexion with the present strike was similar to that followed in every coal pit in Australia. The men unanimously conferred upon the officials the right to call a strike when they deemed it necessary. A. ballot is taken only when requested by the rank and file, and in this case 100 per cent, of the miners sanctioned the strike. At Cessnock, many of the pits were idle three or four months before the strike was declared. All that is asked is that representatives of the mine-owners and the men be called together in conference, because it is believed that the great majority of the points at issue could thus be settled. It is generally admitted that matters are not what they should be as far as the. protection of the miners’ health is concerned. This is admitted by the Prime Minister, but all that the miners get is sympathy. They do not desire sympathy; they ask for a conference. I have no desire to be blasphemous, but perhaps I may be permitted to say that it would be a good idea for the Prime Minister to call for a day of prayer for the miners.

The PRESIDENT:

– Order !

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– I believe that much good could be done by one gesture on the part of the Prime Minister. Senator Sheehan referred to the action of the Prime Minister of Great Britain in making a flight to Germany to see HenHitler, with a view to averting a world war. Surely the Prime Minister of Australia, who has frequently been urged to do something to bring the parties to the present dispute together, could have taken some action in the matter. Unfortunately, he has been told by the secretary to the Mine Owners Association to keep out of the trouble, and he has obeyed that instruction. Senator Abbott expressed the hope that the name of the Prime Minister would not be mentioned in the discussion of the strike. I had hoped that the right honorable gentleman would have taken steps which would have enabled the Opposition to praise rather than condemn him.

It i3 interesting to note that, despite the assertions of Senator Leckie, great prosperity is enjoyed by certain sections of the community. I should like to know whether the lot of any section of the working classes has been improved under the regime of the present Government. Certain large companies, particularly in New South Wales, have made very great profits. Take the record of one of the companies which is particularly involved in the present industrial upheaval. Much of its success and monetary gain is due to assistance received by it at the hands of this Parliament. The Broken Hill Proprietary Company made a profit of £S3,000 in 1931, and £313,000 in 1933. This year, despite the fact that the miners would not dig coal for this company, it recorded a profit of £1,300,000.

Senator E B Johnston:

– Was there not an increase of capital?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Undoubtedly its activities have been extended, but there is no denying the fact that assistance granted by this Parliament has been largely instrumental in enabling the company to make its huge profits. When the people look for reciprocity on the part of this company they are completely disappointed. Recently it required two vessels which could easily have been built in Australia, but an expenditure running into hundreds of thousands of pounds was incurred overseas, without the slightest consideration being shown for the interests of the people of this country. When this Parliament has helped an Australian company to such an extent that it has been able to make enormous profits, the least that company could do is to purchase its equipment in Australia, thus stimulating local industry in other directions.

The next honorable senator on the Government side who entertained the chamber was Senator Dein. If ever New South Wales is looking for a publicity officer to paint a very glowing picture of conditions in that State, regardless of truth, it need not look further than the honorable senator. He is wasting his talents as a senator ; he could go overseas and attract immigrants to New South Wales. Not for many years have I known such a happy picture to be painted of such an unhappy State.

Senator Dein:

– It was only giving credit where credit is due. The honorable senator knows that, ‘but will not admit il.

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– In answer to the observations of my honoured leader, in regard to the dwellings at the Causeway, Senator Dein asked whether he had investigated what the Government had planned in that regard. Upon investigation, I find that the Government has planned exactly nothing. I make hold to say that these dumps at the Causeway will still be in existence 12 months hence. Senator Dein went on to say that the Government planned to build 200 cottages in Canberra at a cost of £290,000 before December of. next year. Already 351 applicants for houses are waiting to be accommodated. By December of next year the number will be nearly 1,000. Yet the Government proposes to build only 200 houses! It will probably make additions to the dumps -at the Causeway. It is an absolute disgrace that the Government cannot provide more housing accommodation than is planned in this capital city.

In answer to Senator Clothier in relation to the difficulty of finding employment for young men and girls in Western Australia, Senator Dein said, “You should come to New .South Wales and see what the Premier of that State has done for the young men and women aged IS to 25 years. He has spent a lot of money on an apprenticeship scheme under which all the boys who want to be apprenticed are put into factories and are now learning trades which will enable them one day to become citizens of great value to the State “. I find that the total number of young men in New South Wales who have benefited by this combined Commonwealth and State scheme is only 1,800. Compared with the population of New South Wales, that is akin to a drop in the ocean.

Senator Dein:

– How many would be eligible?

Senator ARMSTRONG:

– Thousands of young men are out of work in Sydney. Within 100 yards of where I live are 20 young men who are looking for work and cannot obtain it. Young men of 14, 15, and 16 years experience no difficulty whatever in securing employment. T suppose they receive only 10s., 12s., or 15s. a week. The employers in Sydney are exploiting what may be called the child market. After all, a young man of 14, ‘.5, or 16 years of age should not have left school. In other countries a lad would not be allowed to leave school until he was over the age of 16 years. In Australia they are grown men at that age, and do the work of grown men while receiving the wage of a child. What happens after they pass the age of sixteen years? Gradually, under the industrial awards, the wages become a little higher, and as the employers are not prepared to pay the extra amounts, these young men are sifted out and others who are younger take their place, being forced by the economic circumstances in which they live to leave school and look for work. Before I left Sydney on the present occasion, I received a note from » contractor asking me to send him a couple of young men. I do not blame him; I -was pleased to have the opportunity to send them. The contract’ may last for twelve or fourteen months, or two years. . These young men will then have reached the age of sixteen, seventeen or eighteen years. .No provision will have been made for them, and there will be no possibility of their being absorbed in decent employment. The conditions in Sydney have reached such a state that honorary bodies are setting up clubs of a very fine character in order that young men may be taken off the streets. In Balmain, the police have founded a boys’ club which is a wonderful institution. The boys are taken off the street corners. They have free access to a wonderful library, and are instructed in the literature that they should read. A gymnasium is also provided for them, and the officials of the police club endeavour to teach them useful occupations. All this is done by voluntary labour; not one penny is paid in wages. The local governing bodies and the State government have assisted whenever they have been approached, but when the Commonwealth Government was asked to make a slight remission of sales tax in respect of some little transaction, it regretted that it was unable to comply with the request, on the ground that the club could not be regarded as a charitable institution. The local people hold dances, and in other ways give their time, money and labour to promote the success of the club. Anybody who visits the club cannot fail to realize what wonderful work the police have done. They have given these boys definite hope for the future, which previously was lacking. A young man is at the most impressionable age when he becomes adolescent. His future is determined, not when he is 25 or 30 years of agc - by which time his manhood is moulded and there is very little chance of effecting a change - but when he is growing up. If he can then have instilled into him the dignity of citizenship, if he can be shown that the Government is to be respected and -that the social laws must be obeyed, if he can be imbued with the fundamentals of good citizenship, the result must be beneficial. Those young men are hanging round the street cor ners, unable to obtain employment. The conditions in Western Australia are probably better than are enjoyed in “West Sydney. Young men who are looking for an opportunity to make a pound do not care very much whether it is an honest or a dishonest pound. They feel that this country has not given them the right to work out their future destiny, and they will do anything; consequently they clash with the law and many are forced into gaol. It is environment which helps to fill our prisons. At least 99 per cent, of the boys who are growing up are fundamentally honest. They want the opportunity to work and to plan, hut unfortunately that opportunity is denied them. One has only to walk through the streets of our cities to realize that these young men should be given that opportunity. The principal, avenue from which help should come is the Federal Government. The State has done a little in the matter of apprenticeship, hut it has merely scratched the surface, and before long that scratch will not be seen because it will have become rusted over. I ask leave to continue my remarks.

Leave granted ; debate adjourned.

SALES TAX BILLS (Nos. 1 to 9) 1938.

Bills received from the House of Representatives.

Suspension of Standing Orders.

Motion (by Senator A. J. Mclachlan) proposed -

That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the questions with regard to the several stages for the passage through the Senate of all or several of the Sales Tax Bills Nos. 1 to 9 being put in one motion, at each stage, and the consideration of all or several of such bills together in Committee of the Whole.

The PRESIDENT:

– There being an absolute majority of senators present, and there being no dissentient, voice, I declare the motion carried.

Bills (on motion by Senator Foll) read a first time.

page 235

INCOME TAX BILL 1938

Bill received from the House of Representatives, and, on motion (by Senator Fo.lt.), read a first time.

page 236

HOUR OF MEETING

Motion (by Senator A.J. McLachlan) agreed to -

That the Senate at its rising adjourn till 11.30 a.m. to-morrow.

page 236

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Taxation Acts - Twentieth Report of the Commissioner, year 1936-37 - Land Tax, Income Tax and Estate Duty; and year 1937-38- Sales Tax.

Australian Agricultural Council - Summary of Resolutions passed by the Australian Agricultural Council at the eighth meeting held in Perth,8th and 9th September, 1938.

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. -

No. 21 of 1938 - Commonwealth Public Service Clerical Association.

No. 22 of 1938 - Professional Officers Association, Commonwealth Public Service.

Senate adjournedat 10.25 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 27 September 1938, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1938/19380927_senate_15_157/>.