Senate
12 May 1916

6th Parliament · 1st Session



The President took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.

page 7876

QUESTION

CASUALTY LISTS

Senator NEEDHAM:
WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Can the Minister of Defence,without disclosing information which ought not to be made public, and in order to relieve the anxiety of the relatives of soldiers at the front, inform the Senate whether the casualty lists last published represent casualties suffered by Australian soldiers in action in France, or represent casualties suffered elsewhere?

Senator PEARCE:
Minister for Defence · WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The British Government have discontinued the practice of indicating the locality in which casualties take place, both as regards their own Forces and the Forces of the Dominions. I think the honorable senator will find, on looking through the casualty lists referred to, that there is a date placed opposite each casualty which will serve to indicate where it took place.

page 7876

QUESTION

SEPARATE PEACE PROPOSALS

Senator LONG:
TASMANIA

– Has the attention of the Minister of Defence been drawn to a paragraph in to-day’s Age headed, “ A Separate Peace,” and referring to a question directed to Mr. Tudor in another place regarding an alleged statement by the Prime Minister in Canada that Australia had been approached in that direction? In the paragraph in question the statement is made -

Mr. Tudor replied that Germany had not consulted Australia or any other Dominion,so far as he knew, concerning such a peace.

Mr. Fowler (Western Australia). Did Australia consult Germany?

I wish to know if the Minister of Defence has seen this report, and whether it is not competent for the Government to take action against an individual making such a hellish insinuation against the Australian Government?

Senator PEARCE:
ALP

– I have seen the statement referred to. In my opinion, the effect of any statement upon public opinion may be gauged by the source from which it emanates. Holding that view, I do not think that a statement coming from such a source as that indicated in the report quoted is likely to cause any perturbation in the public mind.

page 7876

QUESTION

QUESTIONS

The PRESIDENT:

– Before any fur ther questions are put without notice, I wish to intimate that the question asked by Senator Long and the reply to it by the Minister of Defence are contrary to the Standing Orders and practice of the Senate. I have looked the matter up, and our Standing Orders strictly forbid any reference to proceedings in another place. I make this intimation for the guidance of honorable senators, and that they may know that in future such questions cannot be allowed.

page 7876

QUESTION

CUSTOMS DEPARTMENT

Payment for Holidays

Senator BLAKEY:
VICTORIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that officers in the Customs Department are being worked onholidays without any extra payment?
  2. If so, will he take steps to endeavour to rectify this state of affairs?
Senator RUSSELL:
Assistant Minister · VICTORIA · ALP

– Theanswers are-

  1. Extra payment is made for all work performed by officers on any of the holidays specified in sub-section 1 of section 72 of the Public Service Act, namely : - First day of January, 26th day of January, Christmas Day and the following day, Good Friday and the following Saturday and Monday, the anniversary of the birthday of the Sovereign, and any day proclaimed by the Governor-General or required by any Act to be observed in lieu of any of the said days. It was recently decided by the

Cabinet, however, that, except in the cases mentioned, no special payment was to be made for work performed on holidays proclaimed as State holidays, but not specified in the section referred to.

  1. In view of the decision of Cabinet, it is not proposed to alter the present practice.

page 7877

QUESTION

BOUNTY ON KEROSENE

Senator READY:
TASMANIA

asked the Minister representing the Minister of Trade and Customs, upon notice -

  1. If, in view of the greatly increased prices of oil, petrol, and oil products in Australia, the Minister of Trade and Customs is aware that negotiations are still in progress between the Tasmanian State Government and the Latrobe Shale Company for the former to take over and develop the extensive and valuable shale deposits at Latrobe, Tasmania?
  2. Will the Minister take into consideration the question of altering the present bounty on kerosene and paraffin wax to a bounty on crude oil and petrol in order to stimulate and encourage the Australian production of oil and its by-products?
Senator RUSSELL:
ALP

– The answers are -

  1. Yes.
  2. The matter will receive consideration.

page 7877

QUESTION

EIGHT HOUR DAY IN BRISBANE

Senator MULLAN:
QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

In connexion with the threatened strike of letter-carriers in Brisbane as a protest against being prevented from taking part in theEight Hour Day celebrations, will he furnish the following information : -

Did the Postmaster-General wire to Mr. Templeton, Deputy Postmaster-General, Brisbane, instructing him to permit the letter-carriers to commence their duties at such an early hour as would enable them to finish in time to take part in the Eight Hour celebrations?

If so, on what date was that wire sent to Mr. Templeton?

Did Mr. Templeton immediately and officially communicate the contents of that wire to the union concerned, or is it a fact that the Letter-Carriers Union heard nothing officially of the PostmasterGeneral’s concession until a Federal member (Mr. W. F. Finlayson, M.P.), with a view to preventing a strike, secured the substance of the wire from Mr. Templeton and gave it to their secretary?

Senator GARDINER:
Vice-President of the Executive Council · NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The answers are - 1 and 2. No; but on 12th April, the PostmasterGeneral wrote asking him if such arrangements could be made, as, if so, the Minister desired that to be done.

  1. On 26th April, the Minister’ received a wire saying arrangements as desired had been made. Such was immediately communicated to all concerned. Mr. Templeton evidently decided on the 20th April. The Minister does not know whether he communicated same to union officially.

page 7877

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Sixth Annual Report of the High Commissioner of the Commonwealth in the United Kingdom.

Contract Immigrants Act 1905. - Return for 1915, respecting Contract Immigrants admitted or refused admission into the Commonwealth, &c.

Immigration Act 1901-12.- Return for 1915 showing - (a) Persons refused admission to . the Commonwealth ; (b) persons who passed the dictation test; (c) persons admitted without being asked to pass the dictation test; (d) departures of coloured persons from the Commonwealth.

page 7877

AUSTRALIAN SOLDIERS’ REPATRIATION FUND BILL

Bill read a third time.

page 7877

PATENTS ACT (PARTIAL SUSPENSION) BILL

Bill read a third time.

page 7877

WAR CENSUS BILL (No. 3)

Bill read a third time.

page 7877

RULES PUBLICATION BILL

Second Reading

Debate resumed from 11th May (vide page 7829), on motion by Senator Gardiner -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

Senator SENIOR:
South Australia

– I have looked carefully through this Bill, and also through the principal Act which it is proposed to amend. It is the duty of honorable senators to conserve, as far as they possibly can, the functions of Parliament. One of those functions - and the principal one - is that of legislation. But by virtue of certain provisions which are appended to Bills, we frequently find that our powers of legislation have passed into the hands of Departments, or of officials in Departments. To my mind, the two sections of the Rules Publication Act of 1903 which it is proposed to repeal have hitherto largely safeguarded the functions of Parliament. We are now invited by a single stroke of the pen to excise these provisions, and to forfeit much more than appears on the surface. Paragraph 3 of section 3 of the principal Act provides -

The statutory rules to which this section applies are those made in pursuance of any Act which directs the statutory rules to be laid before the Houses of the Parliament, but do not include any statutory rules if they, or a draft thereof, are required to be laid before the Houses of the Parliament for any period before the rules come into operation.

The elimination of that provisionwill give full effect to paragraph 4 of section 5 of the Act, which reads -

Regulations under this Act may prescribe the class of cases in which the exercise of a statutory power by any rule-making authority constitutes, or does not constitute, the making of a statutory rule within the meaning of this section.

I ask honorable senators not to consent to hand over indiscriminately to the heads of Departments powers so vast and farreaching. Only yesterday, Senator Findley called attention to the voluminous character of the statutory rules and regulations which are being printed from time to time, and requested that, on account of their bulk, they might be bound up quarterly. In these troublous times there may be occasions on which it may be imperative for the Defence Department, for example, to act immediately. In such circumstances I have no objection to it acting under statutory rules. But this Bill covers all cases, and will really have the effect of transferring from Parliament, and vesting in the head of a Department, the power to make laws. I have every confidence that the present Government will do what is right. But Ministers come and go, and if we consent to this proposal now the principle which we sanction may eventually be used against us in a very determined way. Of course, it will probably be argued that when Parliament meets any honorable senator will be at liberty to take exception to any rules to which he may object. That is a very easy way of locking the stable door after the steed has been stolen. But it is much easier to conserve our privileges now than it will be to regain possession of them when once we have parted with them. I view with very great apprehension the proposal to hand over to the heads of Departments the functions of Parliament.

Senator GARDINER (New South Wales - Vice-President of the Executive has put it, there were any intention to deprive honorable senators of the control which they now exercise over regulations, I would join him in his protest. But I would point out that this Bill is based on the experience of fifteen years. When the principal Act was passed, a provision was inserted in it requiring that sixty days’ notice should be given of any proposal to make statutory rules, with a view to adequately protecting the public. During that period of sixty days it is open to any member of the public who is interested to take exception to any rule. Yet in the whole course of fifteen years not a single exception to any proposed statutory rule has been lodged. In this Bill we propose to adopt a system which represents a sort of mean between the urgency system that is now in existence and the old and slower method under which there was double printing and double trouble. The measure is merely a machinery measure, and the right of honorable senators to veto any rule or regulation will still exist. We merely propose to adopt a simpler method than the existing one. - an improved method based upon fifteen years’ experience of the working of the principal Act.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from Committee without amendment; report adopted.

page 7878

ACTS INTERPRETATION BILL

Second Reading

Senator GARDINER (New South

Wales - Vice-President of Executive Council) [11.33].- I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

In this Bill, it is proposed to effect amendments in two Acts - the Acts Interpretation Act of 1901 and the Acts Interpretation Act of 1904. The Act of 1904, although to be construed with the Act of 1901, is not an amendment of the prior Act. Clause 2 of this Bill, which amends the 1901 Act, and clause 4, which amends the 1904 Act, will’ have the effect of doing away with certain repetitions in the wording of Acts and regulations. The new section 10a proposed to be inserted in the 1901 Act provides that references in any Act to another Act shall, if that other Act is afterwards amended, be deemed to be a reference to that Act as so amended. The new section 11 embodies provisions which are usually repeated in regulations which repeal other regulations. This section. will obviate the necessity of repeating in “repeal regulations,” the words which continue rights, privileges, obligations, and liabilities acquired, accrued, or incurred under regulations which are being repealed. The section will insure the continuance of investigations and legal proceedings commenced under regulations prior to their repeal, and that penalties and punishments inflicted for offences against such regulations are not affected by such repeal. The purpose of the amendment of section 2 of the Act of 1904 is to bring the provisions of Acts, passed prior to the Acts Interpretation Act 1904, into line with subsequent Acts in respect of the notification of regulations in the Gazette, the date of their commencement, and their presentation to Parliament. It is merely a technical alteration simplifying our procedure for the repealing of Acts.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time, and reported from Committee without amendment; report adopted.

page 7879

POST AND TELEGRAPH BILL

Second Reading

Senator RUSSELL:
Assistant Minister · Victoria · ALP

– I move -

That this Bill he now read a second time.

The measure is a very simple one, and as there are two similar Bills to follow in which the same principle is involved, it is my intention to make my remarks on this Bill apply also to them. For administrative purposes Australia has been divided into States, but it has been found that this arrangement does not always work satisfactorily in regard to the administration of the Post and Telegraph Department, the Customs Department, and the Public Service. As an illustration, I may point out that the Deputy Postmaster-General of New South Wales controls his Department from Sydney, and at present whenever it is necessary to transfer an official from any part of New South Wales to say, Broken Hill, his expenses have to be paid through Victoria and South Australia to the latter place. It is the desire of the Government to make for more economic working of the departments referred to, and in the case of the Bill now under consideration, to enable the Postmaster-General of South Australia to transfer an official from the South Australian service to Broken Hill, thus saving the Department considerable expenditure. The same system will be followed by the Customs Department and the Public Service. Under this Bill the Deputy Postmaster-General of South Australia will control Broken Hill, thus making it possible to save something like onefourth of the expenditure at present incurred by sending officials all the way from New South Wales to Broken Hill whenever a transfer is authorized. The same principle of adminstration will be applied in the different States where it may be found to be necessary.

Senator FINDLEY:
Victoria

– From the Minister’s remarks I gather that the purpose of this Bill is to effect economy in the management of the respective Departments named, for it does seem a waste of money, when transfers are being effected, to send a man from New South Wales to such a distant part of the State as Broken Hill, when the same purpose could be effected by having a transfer from the Department under control of the South Australian Deputy PostmasterGeneral. What I am for the moment concerned about is as to whether it isthe intention of the Government to clothe officials in the Adelaide Post Office with authority to transfer a man from the Adelaide office to Broken Hill instead of formally getting the approval of the Public Service Commissioner for transfer from the New South Wales Department to Broken Hill, and whether this suggested alteration in the interests of economy will interfere in any way with the promotion of men who may not happen to be in proximity to an office where a vacancy occurs.

Senator Russell:

– If two men were in the same grade and on the same level, one in. Adelaide and one in Sydney, and a position at Broken Hill was vacant, preference would be given to the man in Adelaide, but if the Sydney man was senior his rights would be preserved. There would only be odd cases of that sort.

Senator FINDLEY:

– If that is so I am satisfied.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee:

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Amendment of Section 7).

Senator LYNCH:
Western Australia

.- If the Federal Territory is administered separately from the State of New South Wales at present, this would be a most convenient opportunity to discontinue that system and merge the whole of it under the New South Wales Deputy Postmaster-General for the sake of economy in administration.

Senator RUSSELL:
Assistant Minister · Victoria · ALP

.- The Federal Territory is administered by the Deputy Postmaster-General, Sydney, for postal purposes, and will doubtless continue to be so until Yass-Canberra becomes a big enough centre to justify a change. An instance of what the Bill aims at is furnished by the position of Deniliquin, the only rail communication with which is from Victoria. In the circumstances it is foolish to have Deniliquin administered for postal purposes by the Deputy PostmasterGeneral,New South Wales.

Clause agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

page 7880

COMMONWEALTH PUBLIC SERVICE BILL

Senator RUSSELL:
Assistant Minister · Victoria · ALP

– I move -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

The principle is the same as that of the previous Bill.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee :

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 (Amendment of Section 2).

Senator GRANT:
New South Wales

– Has an estimate been made of the savings to be effected by the alteration proposed?

SenatorRUSSELL (Victoria - Assistant Minister) [11.57]. - No exact estimates have been taken out, but it can be seen at a glance that the savings involved intaking stores to Broken Hill from Adelaide instead of from Sydney would be considerable.

Clause agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment; report adopted.

page 7880

CUSTOMS BILL (No. 2)

Senator RUSSELL:
Assistant Minister · Victoria · ALP

– I move -

That this Bill be now read a second time.

Exactly the same principle operates as in the two previous Bills.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee :

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 verbally amended, and agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported with an amendment.

Motion (by Senator Pearce) agreed to-

That so much of the Standing and Sessional Orders be suspended as would prevent the Bill being passed through its remaining stages without delay.

Report adopted.

page 7880

ADJOURNMENT

Inspection of Vessels at Port Phillip Heads.

Motion (by Senator Pearce) proposed -

That the Senate do now adjourn.

Senator READY:
Tasmania

– I take advantage of this opportunityto bring under the notice of the Government, through the Minister of Defence, a matter of some importance to persons travelling frequently to Melbourne from other States. Owing to the conditions due to the war, vessel desiring to enter Port Phillip Heads must first obtain permission to do so. An examination boat is stationed outside the Heads, and all! steamers desiring to enter the port have to obtain the necessary permission from the examination officer. I do not wish to. question the necessity for such a restriction or, so far as ships generally entering the Heads are concerned, the manner in which it is imposed. But I wish to ask whether one or two irritating results of the restriction might not be removed. For instance, boats regularly engaged in trading between Tasmania and the mainland, and well known to the officer commanding; the forts at the Heads, and to the officer in charge of the examination boat, have, on more than one occasion, been held up and” delayed outside the Heads. In one case the delay extended for nearly an hour. Delay occurred to the Oonah, on which I travelled the last time I came from Tasmania to Melbourne. We had had a good passage across, and on nearing the Heads we found that the examination boat was several miles out interrogating a schooner that was about to enter the port. We had to toss about outside, aimlessly waiting to secure permission from theexamination officer to enter the Heads. The Oonah . is one of the best known traders between Tasmania and the mainland, and because the examination boat was six or seven miles out from the Heads, the passengers on the Oonah, who wore not feeling too well after their trip, were tossed about while waiting for what was merely a routine permission by the examination officer. I ask whether, in the case of steamers frequently trading in and out of the port, and perfectly well known to the officer in command of the forts and to the examination officer, some arrangement could not be made by signalling between the officer in charge of the fort and the examination boat to permit such vessels to promptly enter the Heads. Delay in the case of such vessels does not appear to be necessary, and that such delays may in the future be obviated is my reason for bringing the matter before the Minister.

Senator PEARCE:
Minister of Defence · Western Australia · ALP

.- The inconvenience referred to by Senator Ready is one which I know has caused some little friction. I think it should he possible, in the case of boats that are so well known as these regular traders must be, for some system of signalling to be arranged which would obviate unnecessary delay. I shall bring the matter under the notice of the Minister for the Navy with that object in view.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Senate adjourned at 12.10 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, Senate, Debates, 12 May 1916, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/senate/1916/19160512_senate_6_79/>.