House of Representatives
17 February 1971

27th Parliament · 2nd Session

  1. House of Representatives
  2. 27th Parliament
  3. 1971

Mr SPEAKER (Hon. Sir William Aston) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 123

PETITIONS

Social Services

Dr JENKINS:
SCULLIN, VICTORIA

– I present the following petition:

To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled. The petition of the undersigned citizens of Victoria respectfully showeth.

That due to the higher living cost, persons on Social Service Pensions arefinding it extremely difficult to live in even the most frugal way.

We therefore call upon the Commonwealth Government to increase the base pension rate to 30 per cent of the Average Weekly Male Earnings for all States, as ascertained by the Commonwealth Statistician, plus supplementary assistance and allowances in accordance with ACTU policy and adopted as the policy of the Australian Commonwealth Pensioners’ Federation, and by doing so give a reasonably moderate pension.

Your Petitioners most humbly pray that the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to bring about the wishes expressed in our Petition: so that our citizens receiving the Social Service Pensions may live their lives in dignity.

And your Petitioners as in duty bound will ever pray.

Petition received and read.

Social Services

Dr CASS:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– I present the following pet ition:

To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled. The Petition of the undersigned citizens of Victoria respectfully showeth.

That due to the higher living cost, persons on Social Service Pensions are finding it extremely difficult to live in even the most frugal way.

We therefore call upon the Commonwealth Government to increase the base pension rate to 30 per cent of the Average Weekly Male Earnings for all States, as ascertained by the Commonwealth Statistician, plus supplementary assistance and allowances in accordance with ACTU policy and adopted as the policy of the Australian Commonwealth Pensioners’ Federation, and by doing so give a reasonably moderate pension.

Your Petitioners most humbly pray that the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to bring about the wishes expressed in our Petition: so that our citizens receiving the Social Service Pensions may live their lives in dignity.

And your Petitioners as in duty bound will ever pray.

Petition received.

Education

Mr TURNER:
BRADFIELD, NEW SOUTH WALES

-I present the following petition:

To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled. The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of Australia respectfully sheweth:

That the Australian Education Council’s report on the needs of State education services has established serious deficiencies in education.

That these can be summarised as lack of classroom accommodation, desperate teacher shortage, oversized classes and inadequate teaching aids.

That the additional sum of one thousand million dollars is required over the next five years by the States for these needs.

That without massive additional Federal finance the Stale school system will disintegrate.

That the provisions of the Handicapped Children’s Assistance Act 1970 should be amended to include all the country’s physically and mentally handicapped children.

Your petitioners most humbly pray that the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to

Ensure that emergency finance from the Commonwealth will be given to the States for their public education services which provide schooling for seventy-eight per cent of Australia’s children. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Petition received.

Education

Mr UREN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I present the following petition:

To the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled. The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of Australia respectfully sheweth:

That the Australian Education Council’s report on the needs of State education services has established serious deficiencies in education.

That these can be summarised as lack of classroom accommodation, desperate teacher shortage, oversized classes and inadequate teaching aids.

That the additional sum of one thousand million dollars is required over the next five years by the States for these needs.

That without massive additional Federal finance the Slate school system will disintegrate.

That the provisions of the Handicapped Children’s Assistance Act 1970 should be amended to include all the country’s physically and mentally handicapped children.

Your petitioners most humbly pray that the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take immediate steps to

Ensure that emergency finance from the Commonwealth will be given to the States for their public education services which provide schooling for seventy-eight per cent of Australia’s children. And you petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Petition received.

Kangaroos

Mr REID:
HOLT, VICTORIA

– I present the following petition:

To the Honourable, the Speaker, and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament, assembled. The humble petition of residents of Cranbourne and surrounding district, respectfully sheweth:

Our national symbol, the Red Kangaroo, is through shooting for commerce, being reduced to a numerical level where, if the shooting is not stopped, the animal will become extinct.

Reports from scientists, conservationists, tourists, graziers and shooters, confirm that State Governments are unable to effectively enforce legislation to control shooting and that kangaroos are already extinct in many areas where they once were prolific.

Science has established that kangaroos seldom come into direct competition for forage with sheep, there is. therefore, no reason why this unwarranted killing, which is branding us internationally as barbarians, should be allowed (o continue.

We, the residents of this nation, want the kangaroo, which can be found nowhere else in the world, to be part of the Australian landscape. We believe that tourists, who will play an increasing part in the national balance of payments, want this too.

We, your petitioners, therefore humbly pray that you will:

Ban the export of products made from kangaroos.

Quickly pass the legislation necessary to make the kangaroo a protected animal throughout Australia - the culling of herds for the protection of the few property owners genuinely threatened by excessive numbers, or for the welfare of kangaroos themselves, to bc carried out by or under direct supervision of Government officers.

And you petitioners as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Petition received and read.

Brazil

Mr FOX:
HENTY, VICTORIA

– I present the following petition:

Petition to the Honourable the Speaker and Members of the House of Representatives in Parliament now assembled. The humble petition of citizens of the Commonwealth respectfully sheweth:

The Young Christian Workers Movement in Melbourne are concerned at the unjust treatment of Young Workers in Brazil.

lt is a recognized right and duty of man to labour for the betterment of his country. The Brazilian Y.C.W. has been working at highlighting some of the social injustices which they are convinced exist in the country.

However, through constant harassment and the imprisonment of several of the National Leaders, they are denied of their human rights and deprived of freedom by the Brazilian Government.

Therefore

Your Petitioners most humbly pray that the House of Representatives in Parliament assembled will take steps to ensure -

That the Australian delegation to the United Nations are directed to question the Brazilian delegation regarding the social freedom of their countrymen.

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

Petition received and read.

page 124

QUESTION

SUPPLEMENTARY BUDGET

Mr LUCHETTI:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– In view of the brevity of the statement made last evening by the Prime Minister I ask the right honourable gentleman: Does he now intend to present a supplementary Budget to remedy the grievous hardships being experienced by many pensioners, victims of the cost price squeeze? If the Prime Minister does intend to take this humane and necessary action will he have regard also to the needs of families by substantially- increasing endowment payments?

Mr GORTON:
Prime Minister · HIGGINS, VICTORIA · LP

– The statement made last night was necessarily brief since it was confined to a statement which had been foreshadowed as one relating to cuts in Commonwealth Government expenditure. I believe it covered that quite satisfactorily. The answer to the second part of the honourable member’s question is that we do not propose to introduce a supplementary Budget.

page 124

QUESTION

MINERAL SECURITIES LTD

Mr WHITTORN:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– I ask the Treasurer whether the Australian Industries Development Corporation will take part in the reformation of Mineral Securities Australia Ltd in order to bail out a private company which is in financial difficulties? If so, where will it obtain the capital for this venture? For this purpose will it use the Commonwealth’s Consolidated Revenue Fund which is the taxpayers’ money?

Mr BURY:
Treasurer · WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– The Australian Industries Development Corporation has not imparted to me what its intentions are in this matter. I have seen a Press reference to it, but beyond that at the moment I can give the honourable member no information.

page 125

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL LUNE: JAPAN CONFERENCE

Mr WHITLAM:
WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I ask the Minister for Shipping and Transport: Is the Australian National Line being forced to reimburse to its partners in the Australia-Japan Shipping Conference the staggering figure of $Hm which it earned through its superior efficiency and service in last year’s operations?

If the reimbursement is not $1.5m, how much is it? Will the ANL despite this payout still show a small profit? Are the ANL representatives in Japan next week seeking a larger share of the JapanAustralia trade? Will the Government give complete backing for the ANL’s efforts to secure arrangements which will give the Line, as our national flag line, a more equitable share of the trade and at the same time lessen the virtual subsidy which the Line is paying to less efficient overseas operators?

Mr NIXON:
Minister for Shipping and Transport · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · CP

– 1 am not sure of the amount that the ANL is ‘paying back’ to the Conference with which it is engaged in the Eastern Searoad Service, but certainly it is true to say that the ANL is able to carry more than the share which is allotted to it under the agreement of the Service. The Chairman of the ANL is proceeding to Japan to have discussions with other members of the Conference to see what can be done about the inclusion in the service of another ship also so that the ANL can obtain a better share of the trade. That is about all I can say at this point of time. I have no doubt that when the ANL has put its case to the Conference I will get a report in due course.

page 125

QUESTION

TELEVISION

Mr KATTER:
KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND

– My question is directed to the Postmaster-General. In view of the fact that television has only recently been approved for many rural areas in Australia, particularly for the electorate of Kennedy where 13 of the 38 stations are to be provided, and because urban and provincial areas where so many other amenities are readily available have enjoyed this facility for many years, will the PostmasterGeneral assure the House that the installation of these stations will take place without delay and that there will be no question of colour television being installed at the expense of our areas?

Sir ALAN HULME:
Postmaster-General · PETRIE, QUEENSLAND · LP

– I have made statements on a number of occasions in relation to the seventh Stage of the introduction of television which provides for 38 additional stations, mainly in the lesser settled areas of Australia. A number of these, as the honourable member has said, will be in his electorate. Recently the honourable member took part in the opening of the Mount lsa station. 1 understand that the Cloncurry station will be opened within the next 3 months and I believe ail the stations planned for the line between Townsville and Mount Isa will be in operation by the end of this calendar year. I have also noted that the Norseman station is expected to be opened around about April this year. This is an indication that the Australian Broadcasting Control Board and those responsible for the erection of the additional stations are hard at it trying to bring about the result we all hope for. As for colour television, I announced some short time ago that the Government at this point of time had not made a decision as to when colour television would be adopted and I indicated that at least 3 years notice would be given of it. The honourable member may be sure that the introduction of colour television whenever it does come will not interfere with the plans adopted in relation to black and white television.

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QUESTION

PERTH AIRPORT

Mr BENNETT:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation whether, in view of the announced intention of the Department of Civil Aviation to resume large areas at Newburn in Western Australia to extend Perth Airport, he will indicate at what date property owners will be compensated for their properties and at what values? Will the Belmont Shire Council be paid compensation annually for loss of rates from these properties, and on what basis will the compensation be made - on the existing value ot the properties or the potential value based on the value of properties in adjacent areas?

Mr SWARTZ:
Minister for National Development · DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND · LP

– .1 will see that this question is referred to my colleague in another place and I shall obtain a suitable answer for the honourable member

page 126

QUESTION

TAXATION

Mr HANSEN:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

– My question is directed to the Treasurer. We have heard a number of estimates given of the cost of the recent national wage increases. Can the Treasurer indicate to the House what additional revenue will be available to the Commonwealth, by way of increased income taxation resulting from the national wage increases for the year ended June 1971 and/or for a full year?

Mr BURY:
LP

– In the current year the additions to revenue will be, 1 think, approximately $83m, but, of course, this has a progressive effect. First of all, it is not possible, except for a fairly short period, to estimate precisely the amount of extra revenue because there are a great many repercussions outside the 6 per cent increase in wages. But it will add substantially to Commonwealth revenue and also, almost offsetting that revenue, to the Commonwealth’s immediate expenditure. This, of course, provides no extra resources whatsoever, lt is just a monetary phenomenon which, in the present circumstances, is most-, unfortunate..

. FLOOD RELIEF

Mr O’KEEFE:
PATERSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I direct my question to the Treasurer. Did the Prime Minister recently announce the granting of financial assistance to the New South Wales Government to help with flood relief and flood damage restoration? Is it true that there has been great damage and devastation to property, stock and crops on the Hunter River and Namoi River systems? Can the Treasurer state what arrangements have been made to make available in New South Wales such financial assistance which is urgently required for rehabilitation purposes?

Mr BURY:

– J think we have all learned with distress of the devastation in the Hunter River Valley, which is, of course, in the honourable member’s electorate and also farther in the north west of New South Wales. Following these occurrences the Prime Minister indicated to the Premier of New South Wales that in 1970-71, this year, the Commonwealth would meet any expenditure in excess of $5m by the State which resulted from abnormal seasonal conditions and other factors beyond its control affecting State finances. This, of course, will include carry-on loans for farmers and the restoration of certain public assets, particularly roads and things of that nature, which are beyond the capacity of local authorities to meet. In addition to meeting these payments the Commonwealth Government also will provide for the relief of personal hardship on a SI for $1 basis with the State Government. I think that these arrangements are considered reasonably generous by the New South Wales Government and I only express my personal distress at the circumstances which have necessitated this action.

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QUESTION

VEHICLE DESIGN

Mr COHEN:
ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– My question to the Minister for Shipping and Transport relates to the design rules for motor vehicle safety drafted by the Advisory Committee for Safety in Vehicle Design and supervised by the Vehicle Structures Branch of the Department of Shipping and Transport, ls it a fact that the officer who is responsible for inspecting the automotive industry’s implementation of these safety rules for vehicle design has only the individual company’s verbal assurance and that no government controlled testing laboratory exists to verify whether these vehicle design changes meet required standards?

Mr NIXON:
CP

– I was just saying to my colleague that I have no idea. T am sure that the honourable member will bear with me when he realises that 1 have held this portfolio for about a week and I do not know all the details of it. However, I am able to say, in respect of the design rules, that whatever, the situation put forward by the honourable member the facts are that we are receiving the greatest co-operation from the motor companies themselves in implementing the design, rules. One factor that affects this matter is that it seems that Australian people, who should be very conscious of the problems of road safety considering that we have- one of the worst accident records per capita in the world, are not keen to pay more for a car because it is safer. The necessity for this must be brought home to them.

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QUESTION

CIGARETTE ADVERTISING

Mr JESS:
LA TROBE, VICTORIA

– The Minister for Health will be aware that the governments of the United Kingdom and the United States of America recently have banned cigarette advertising on television channels. Cao the Minister inform me what factors prevent Australia from taking the same action?

Dr FORBES:
Minister for Health · BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP

– The principal factor is that most of the evidence from countries which have banned television advertising makes it perfectly clear that this has had no effect on the consumption of cigarettes in those countries. I should like to add that the Government’s efforts have been directed towards achieving control of television advertising so that such advertising does not take place at times during which young children are watching television programmes. To that end my departmental officers have been conducting discussions with the tobacco companies, the Broadcasting Control Board and others affected towards revising the voluntary code for cigarette advertising on television, both in relation to its style and its content. This includes the hours during which television cigarette commercials are broadcast. They are looking also at the question of extending this code from television to radio. The discussions are almost concluded and I expect to be able to make an announcement on the subject soon.

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QUESTION

LEAD CONTENT IN UTENSILS

Mr GARRICK:
BATMAN, VICTORIA

– Has the attention of the Minister for Health been drawn to the recent discovery of widespread excessive lead content in culinary earthenware, reported in ‘Time’ magazine of 12th October 1970 as being responsible for some deaths? Will the Minister initiate inquiries in Australia to inform the Australian people of the risks, if any, of using various kinds of pottery and crockery as food and drinking utensils?

Dr FORBES:
LP

– The answer to the first part of the question is no, and the answer to the second part is yes.

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QUESTION

BUREAU OF TRANSPORT ECONOMICS

Mr ENGLAND:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– i direct a question to the Minister for Shipping and Transport. In the present economic climate of Australia, when governments and industry are looking for ways to cut costs and effect economies, what progress is being made: in the launching of the Bureau of Transport Economics with which the Government plans to analyse the economics of transport in Australia?

Mr Daly:

– None.

Mr NIXON:
CP

– I am sorry to disappoint the honourable member who interjected but a great deal of progress has been made in the subject raised by the honourable member who asked the question. The House will recall that the Prime Minister announced in a policy speech last year that the Government would set up the Bureau of Transport Economics. Already Mr R. W. Cole, an economist, has been appointed director of that organisation. At present Mr Cole is interviewing people with a view to filling his establishment which will consist of engineers, people skilled in transport operations, statisticians and the like. These people will act in the way the honourable member expects. They will study the coordination, rationalisation and efficiency of transport throughout Australia. One has to recognise that a body of this nature, able to look at the whole scene of transport across Australia, has not existed previously, although there have been many separate State and Commonwealth bodies which have made a part-time study in this field. I am sure that after the Bureau has been operating for a time it will become a nationally respected body which will add a lot to transport efficiency and will help in reducing the cost of transport throughout Australia.

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QUESTION

BUREAU OF TRANSPORT ECONOMICS: CIVIL AVIATION

Mr WHITLAM:

– I ask the Minister lor Shipping and Transport a supplementary question. Has it been decided whether he Bureau of Transport Economics will be charged with the responsibility of advising on the economics of civil aviation in Australia?

Mr NIXON:
CP

– lt is not envisaged at present that the Bureau will have anything to do with civil aviation.

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QUESTION

HEALTH INSURANCE

Mr HAMER:
ISAACS, VICTORIA

– My question is directed to the Minister for Health. Has the Minister noted the recent rise of $4 in the minimum wage? Will action be taken to adjust the levels of subsidised health insurance accordingly?

Dr FORBES:
LP

– 1 am glad to be able to inform the honourable gentleman that the Government has decided to increase the eligibility limits for family income in the subsidised medical scheme by $4 as a consequence of the decision to increase the minimum wage. This will mean that a family with an income of up to $46.50 a week will receive a full subsidy from the Government for its health insurance; those with an income of between $46.50 and $49.50 will receive a two-thirds subsidy; and those with an income of between $49.50 and $52.50 will receive a one-third subsidy. These arrangements will apply from 1st March.

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QUESTION

PRIVATE HOSPITALS

Mr SCHOLES:
CORIO, VICTORIA

– I direct a question to the Minister for Health. Is he aware that some large Victorian private hospitals have substantially increased their charges for intermediate and private wards in recent weeks, in some cases by more than 25 per cent? One of the major hospitals in my electorate now charges $140 a week for intermediate wards. Is the Minister aware that these charges are not covered by existing hospital benefit schedules? Will he inform the House when the new schedules, which were promised to the hospital benefit funds last July, will apply?

Dr FORBES:
LP

– I was not aware that private hospitals have increased their fees in the last week or so. It is the practice of my Department to deal speedily with applications by the funds for new hospital tables to cover increased hospital charges. I say advisedly that the Department deals wilh such matters as speedily as possible because, under the National Health Act, statutory obligations are placed on the Department and on the Registration Committee to examine the viability of any proposals that are made by a fund. I will under take to find out whether the funds have made proposals in respect of these new charges and do what I can to hasten the process of having them approved.

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QUESTION

IMMIGRATION

Dr SOLOMON:
DENISON, TASMANIA

– My question to the Minister for Immigration concerns recent criticism by non-Australians of Australia’s immigration policy. Will the Minister indicate clearly to the House that, contrary to the opinions of some international moralists, Australia’s non-European immigration policy is our own business and is designed to preserve a community free from the tensions which characterise other parts of the world? Will he confirm that it does and will allow a limited number of nonEuropean persons to migrate to Australia and, particularly, that it is a policy based on our capacity to integrate those who come here?

Mr LYNCH:
Minister Assisting the Treasurer · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · LP

– Every country has a right to its own immigration policy and a duty and responsibility to ensure that that policy is administered in the best interests of its own people. Our own policies and programmes have emerged from our history and in response to our country’s needs. Indeed, as the Prime Minister indicated during the last sittings of the House in 1970, we do not wish to see repeated in Australia the tensions and hostilities which do characterise some other parts of the world.

The overriding objective of Australia’s immigration policy is to ensure the continuing development of a cohesive and homogeneous community, well integrated and harmonious, without persisting divisions or disunity. If 1 may put that in the negative sense our objective is to avoid the creation within our community of permanent minority groups and self -perpetuating enclaves which may be resistant to integration even in the long term.

Sometimes it is believed that this objective entails a policy which excludes persons of other than European descent. It certainly does not, although it does mean an attitude of prudent caution, taking account not only of our own experience but also of the experience of other countries in accepting for permanent settlement large numbers of peoples with extremely different racial origins, backgrounds and attitudes.

So far as the question of settlement of non-European persons and persons of mixed descent is concerned the annual rate of .settlement of non-European persons coming to Australia is some 3,500 and the annual rale of settlement of persons of mixed descent is approximately 6,000, a total of 9,500 persons, lt may be felt by some within the Australian community, or outside of it. that our evolutionary policy is overcautious. But the Government believes that we have a duty to learn patiently because the effects of this policy have a very far reaching application on the whole of the Australian community in its life, work and general attitudes.

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QUESTION

PENSION RATES

Mr WEBB:
STIRLING, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– In view of the Prime Minister’s answer to the honourable member for Macquarie in which he implied that there would be no increase in pensions m least until the presentation of the next Budget, does the right honourable gentleman agree that the purchasing power of the pension has been reduced since the pension was increased by the miserable sum of 50c following the Budget presented last August? If this is so, how can the Prime Minister justify his refusal to grant a further increase in pensions when so many people are finding it so difficult to maintain a decent standard of living on so small a pension?

Mr GORTON:
LP

– A rise in the consumer price index, which is the bench mark which has always been taken in these matters, does indicate, as it has indicated in past years, that there has been a reduction in the buying power of pensions since the last rise. The last rise in the last Budget was sufficient to bring the buying power of the pension back into line with what it was the year before that, this taking place after 2 Budgets in which the buying power of the pension had been considerably raised in a period of time by, I believe, more than it has ever been raised before in a similar period of time.

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QUESTION

REPATRIATION

Mr KING:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

– 1 direct my question to the Minister for Repatriation. In view of the Prime Minister’s statement to the effect that there will be a cut-back of $1.8m in the expenditure of the Repatriation Department, can the Minister give the House an assurance that this reduction will not have any effect on repatriation beneficiaries in the form of either a reduction or a delay in their benefit payments?

Mr HOLTEN:
Minister for Repatriation · INDI, VICTORIA · CP

– The cuts in the Repatriation Department expenditure announced by the Prime Minister will not mean that the level of pensions or the other benefits that come through the Department will be affected. It will not mean that the standard of treatment available through the Department will be in any way affected. Lastly, no hardship will be caused to any of the clients of the Department who receive payments from the Department or to those who have claims that will be processed during the next 4 months.

page 129

QUESTION

RURAL RECONSTRUCTION SCHEME

Mr DUTHIE:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

– I ask a question of the Minister for Primary Industry. In respect of the SI 00m rural reconstruction scheme, is it a fact that a farmer must have 40 petcent equity in his property before he is eligible for assistance? If this is so, is the scheme designed for the elite, thus denying any assistance to a large proportion of soldier settlers besides thousands of other primary producers who could not be classed as uneconomic? Will there be an upper limit to the assistance?

Mr SINCLAIR:
Minister for Primary Industry · NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The basis of the operation of the scheme in each of the States is to be determined by the State administering authorities. In Tasmania, as in each of the other States, the State Government will prescribe the conditions of assistance and determine who will be eligible for assistance. But it is not intended that assistance should be provided only to those whom the honourable member describes as the elite. Indeed, the basic aim of the scheme is to help those who can be re-established in operating profitably and to the benefit of the community. It is for that reason that the scheme is being tied in with a scheme aimed at extending land holding sizes, so that persons who are to be given assistance might have some prospect, if their area is too small or if they are otherwise in a position of disadvantage perhaps because they are soldier settlers or for some other reason, and so they might have a larger and more profitable enterprise. But the details of the workings of the scheme in each State are to be determined by the respective State governments but, as I explained, it is certainly not intended that assistance should be available only to those who have a certain equity in a property.

page 130

QUESTION

IMMIGRATION

Mr Donald Cameron:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND · LP

– Is the Minister for Immigration familiar with the claim of some economists that it requires up to 2i persons to service the demands and needs of a migrant? la view of the present difficulties we are experiencing with inflation, are the Minister and his Department giving serious consideration to cutting down temporarily on our intake of migrants, thus lessening demand on services?

Mr LYNCH:
LP

– The Government, against the context of the Budget introduced in August 1970, indicated that the migrant inflow target for the present financial year would be 180,000. The objective is based on 3 major indices: Firstly, our appreciation of Australia’s national needs and objectives; secondly, the availability of suitable settlers and thirdly, our capacity to integrate effectively those who come here. Immigration programmes must, of course, always be responsive to changing circumstances, and against the circumstances recently outlined to this House by the Prime Minister the immigration programme has in fact been modified. So that at the present time the revised objective for migrants coming to Australia in this financial year is some 170,000 persons.

I might indicate in passing that the assisted migration programme has been flowing strongly from almost every part of the world with the exception of Great Britain where our operation has been greatly inhibited because of the postal strike in that country. But during the course of the past 6 months there has been a down-turn in the unassisted component of the total programme so if the total figure were to have been achieved it would have required the supplementary estimates consistent with the practice of recent years. Supplementaries will not be sought on that basis and therefore, for the reasons I have mentioned, in responding to the need for public sector restraint and the circumstances iti which the country now finds itself, the programme for this year will be some-1 70.000 persons.

page 130

QUESTION

EYRE HIGHWAY

Mr WALLIS:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Has the Minister for Shipping and Transport seen an article in the Adelaide ‘Advertiser’ of 16th February which refers to the number of fatal accidents on the Eyre Highway in western South Australia? Has he noted that of the 8 unfortunate people killed over a period 5 were from New South Wales, 2 were from Victoria and 1 was from Western Australia? Does this not indicate the wide use being made of this highway by interstate travellers and thereby strengthen the case for a special federal grant to expedite the complete sealing of the Eyre Highway from Ceduna to the Western Australian border?

Mr NIXON:
CP

– .1 am aware of the tragic road accidents that have taken place on the Eyre Highway but I am also aware that, under the last Commonwealth Aid Roads Agreement, South Australia was given specific grants - in one case $13. 67m - for rural arterial roads. A supplementary grant of $9m was made on top of that. The South Australian Government has within its power and jurisdiction the right to take the decision to seal the 300 miles of the Eyre Highway or to commence sealing it. I notice that on the Western Australian side of the border the Western Australian Government has managed to seal its section of the road, and while it is to be deplored that these road accidents do take place I think that the Commonwealth Government has been fairly generous to the South Australian Government and it ought to be up to the South Australian Government to upgrade the priority of the sealing of that road against other demands.

page 130

QUESTION

EUROPEAN TRADE

Mr O’KEEFE:

– I direct my question to the Minister for Trade and Industry. To me as a member of a parliamentary delegation visiting overseas it appeared that Australia has excellent opportunities of increasing trade with southern European countries and also other nations, particularly with lamb and mutton, wheat, coal and minerals, especially iron ore. Does the Minister feel that Australia has sufficient trade commissioners in these areas to take care of the trade that does appear to be available on first investigations?

Mr ANTHONY:
Deputy Prime Minister · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– I do not know whether 1 could give a positive answer to the question whether I feel there are enough trade commissioners in that area. I know there are a good many trade commissioners over there. We do sponsor and support trade missions to various parts of the world, including Europe, to foster the export of Australian goods. I am conscious of the letter which the honourable member wrote to me in relation to the possibilities of exporting fat lamb to France and I have brought this request to the attention of the Chairman of the Australian Meat Board and asked him to look at it. But there are trading difficulties with the European countries. We are trying to minimise these in the course of negotiations but they are awkward ones to overcome.

page 131

QUESTION

CIVIL AVIATION

Mr REYNOLDS:
BARTON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– J direct a question to the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation in this place. How much longer must the already long suffering residents in many parts of Sydney await the Government’s decision as to the choice of a site for a second international airport for that city? Has the Minister been contemplating the report of the interdepartmental committee on that subject for about 6 months? Is there any truth in current speculation that Bankstown aerodrome will be the site for a second international airport? Finally, will the implementation of the decision, when it is ultimately made, be further delayed by the Government’s present economic policy?

Mr SWARTZ:
LP

– It is a fact that an inter.departmental committee was set up about 2 years ago to investigate sites for an additional airport to service Sydney and the surrounding district. The committee has completed its report, which is now under examination by the Department of Civil Aviation and the Minister for Civil Aviation. The investigation of that-

Mr Armitage:

– The Minister said recently that he would put it to Cabinet in February.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The honourable member for Chifley will have an opportunity to ask a question in his turn. I remind the honourable members that interjections are out of order.

Mr SWARTZ:

– I may say that the interjection is not part of the answer. I waited to hear what it was to see whether it would fit in, but it does not. The position is that this matter is still under examination. In relation to Sydney (KingsfordSmith) Airport the honourable member has no doubt seen the report on aircraft noise which was recently released by the Minister and no doubt the honourable member is relatively pleased with the findings in that report. However, I will see that the attention of the Minister is drawn to the remarks of the member.

page 131

QUESTION

PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Mr NICHOLLS:
BONYTHON, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– My question is directed to you, Mr Speaker. Have you, Sir, recently inspected the corridors of this Parliament and noticed the accumulation of furniture and junk which is reminiscent of the popular Steptoe and Son business? Will you, Mr Speaker, together with the President of the Senate, take the necessary action ro dispose of the unwanted articles at the earliest opportunity particularly in view of the Government’s austerity campaign?

Mr SPEAKER:

– As the honourable member knows I arrived back only yesterday after a long absence and 1 have not yet been able to inspect all of the House. I will have a look at the matter he has raised and see what can be done about it.

page 131

QUESTION

WITHOUT HARDWARE

Mr Les Johnson:
HUGHES, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– I ask the AttorneyGeneral a question. Will he institute an investigation into the subject matter of the book entitled ‘Without Hardware* which was written by the widow of the late Dr Clifford Dalton, a former head of the atomic research establishment at Lucas Heights? In particular will the Minister investigate the contention that Dr Dalton was murdered by an international conspiracy and that his death was linked with that of another scientist, the late Dr Bogle? Will he also probe complaints against the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and senior officers of the Australian Atomic Energy Commission who are said to have engaged in a conspiracy against the Dalton family?

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · BEROWRA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– I have had some preliminary inquiries made into this book but I have not read it or indeed opened it for myself. But I will take into account what the honourable member has said and if I consider that a further investigation of the allegations that have been made is warranted I will give some thought to what the honourable member has proposed.

Mr McIVOR:
GELLIBRAND, VICTORIA · ALP

– Why read the book? Why not look at the allegations?

Mr HUGHES:

– Frankly 1 think I have better things to do.

page 132

QUESTION

PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Mr ROBINSON:
COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I direct a question to you, Mr Speaker. I ask: With the extensive extensions to Parliament House now taking place on the Senate side of the building will there be additional accommodation for members to perform their parliamentary duties and will additional services be available to assist them in those duties?

Mr SPEAKER:

-The answer is yes.

page 132

QUESTION

INFLATION

Mr Lionel Bowen:
KINGSFORD-SMITH, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-I direct my question to the Prime Minister. At the recent Premiers’ Conference was it indicated that there may be a necessity to restrict State works programmes because of inflationary pressure? Was it further indicated that this may well lead to a reduction in the building of schools and hospitals? In view of the decision of State electors at a recent State election will the Prime Minister now give an assurance that there will be no such restriction?

Mr GORTON:
LP

– Definitely not. I will give no such assurance whatsoever. When we met at the Premiers’ Conference before we sat around in a situation where it was perfectly clear that one of the causes of pressure in the economy was the demand by governments for building construction. It is quite clear, and I believe it has been made clear by me to the nation, that one of the matters that needs to be done is for governments not to engage so heavily io building construction in an endeavour to be sure that the price of building construction does not rise to a point where it would be half as much again as it is now. Of course there is a necessity for governments when they are not going to have all the money they want - and no government ever does - in circumstances such as ours to endeavour to see that the public demand for construction particularly is not increased. This I believe to be in the interests of Australia. So I repeat what I said at the beginning: I will give no such assurance whatever.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! Today we have seen an example of short answers and fairly short questions. I invite each honourable member’s attention to the fact that this is beneficial to all honourable members. I think that today we have had about 28 questions and answers which is well above average. I ask honourable members and Ministers to continue to make their questions and answers short.

page 132

QUESTION

B LAC KM ARRET ACTIVITIES

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– Yesterday the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked me a question concerning practices and allegations about events in Vietnam.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! Do you wish to give further information?

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– 1 wish to give the Deputy Leader of the Opposition further information.

Mr Whitlam:

– He is not here today because of public duties in his own State.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– It will be in the record.

Mr Whitlam:

– It is not controversial, is it?

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– I do not think so.

Mr Whitlam:

– 1 would like him to be here if it is.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! If the Leader of the Opposition feels that this statement would be better made in the presence of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, that is a matter for him. On the other hand, the Minister may feel that it is of benefit to the House.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– lt will be of benefit to the House for the- information to be made available in answer to the question so that the House may know the answer and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition may know it at the earliest possible moment. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition referred to a question which had earlier been asked in another place by Senator Keeffe concerning the alleged blackmarketing of Australian military equipment in Vietnam. I had answered that question by indicating that the normal procedures of the Services were designed to make sure that this did not happen and that 1 had been advised of no evidence that indicated that a problem existed. The Deputy Leader then referred to some charges laid against Australian soldiers some time ago who had been summarily punished and dealt with by the Army. The characteristics of the charges against the soldiers concerned were substantially different, because they were dealing in luxury goods and not military equipment. Therefore the question was not connected to the earlier question asked by Senator Keeffe.

I think that the action taken by the Army at the time indicates that the Army, as do the other Services, not only frowns upon these activities but also takes quite stringent action if there is any evidence of this sort of thing occurring in the Australian Forces. If the Deputy Leader of the Opposition or anyone else had any evidence of trading of a kind that ought not to take place and which they believed should be investigated it would certainly be investigated.

page 133

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE

Report

Mr SPEAKER:

– I bring up the report from the Standing Orders Committee relating to the quorum of the House, Copies of the report are being circulated to honourable member’s rooms.

Ordered that the report be printed.

page 133

IMMIGRATION (EDUCATION) BILL 1970

Second Reading

Debate resumed from 16 February (vide page 63), on motion by Mr Snedden:

That the Bill be now read a secondtime. Upon which Mr Daly had moved by way of amendment:

That all words after ‘That’ be omitted with a view to inserting the following words in place thereof: whilst not refusing to give the Bill a second reading, the House condemns the Government for the delay in providing a comprehensive programme of migrant education, adequate finance facilities and capital equipment, including buildings’.

Mr REID:
Holt

– The matter of pre-embarkation instruction in English for migrants was raised in this debate last night and I would like to state just what the Government is doing in this regard. In Europe the Inter-governmental Committee for European Migration arranges classes and correspondence instruction in countries where ICEM operates from funds allocated by the Australian Government. In 2 countries, Belgium and the Netherlands, the immigration authorities conduct a limited programme with technical assistance from ICEM. In countries where ICEM is not operating the Department of Immigration is responsible for preembarkation language instruction. This is provided in the following countries: Turkey, Greece, Italy, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Finland and Yugoslavia. Consideration is also being given to the appointment of departmental language training supervisors to Paris with responsibility for Spain and, in due course, Portugal, and to Stockholm with responsibility for Norway, Finland and Iceland. Of course, instruction is given on ships and intensive instruction courses are provided once the migrant arrives in this country.

I want to mention something closer to my electorate. For many years many teachers at Government and Catholic schools have had a problem teaching English to non-English speaking migrant children. In the main this has been usually at primary level and to a lesser degree in secondary schools in areas where there are large migrant populations. I have a number of these in the Holt electorate. It is not uncommon for 60 or more non-English speaking migrant children to commence a school year at primary school with little knowledge of the English language. Naturally this presents many problems for the teaching staff and this matter was raised with me as a former member of State Parliament on a number of occasions. What the schools wanted mainly were trained teachers for teaching English. It is only in the last year or so that State Government authorities have accepted, in principle anyway, that there has been a problem in some schools. However, State authorities with their limited finances have not been able to come to grips with this problem. It is for this reason that the migrant education programme is welcomed as it will enable schools with large migrant intakes better to provide intensive instruction in English by teachers with special skills.

The special provisions in this Bill - I again emphasise the payment of salaries of these special teachers in addition to teaching aids and so on, is a very progressive step forward by the Department of Immigration and will be a big factor in enabling migrant children to settle more quickly into their new environment. 1 carried out a survey of a number of government and independent schools in my electorate and all welcomed these new proposals in the Immigration (Education) Bill 1970. From my survey I was able to obtain some interesting statistics from a number of schools which have large migrant intakes.

Speaking generally, approximately onethird of the children attending schools within, the electorate of Holt are children of migrant parents, and approximately one-half of these are from the United Kingdom. I want to refer to a few of the statistics which I received from the schools. The first one is the Dandenong technical school. In many cases children attending this school come from homes in which English is not the commonly used language. In some cases the children’s own mastery of English is so weak that the teachers feel that this handicaps them in their subjects, and I do not think there is any doubt about that. It is noteworthy that these are all in the lower forms either because they have mastered English by the time they reach the higher forms or because they give up the struggle, leave school early and enter unskilled occupations because of lack of qualifications. lt is worth noting that the percentage of migrant children is higher in the upper forms. This may be because the migrant who is dissatisfied with life in his own country and has the initiative to travel halfway round the world to a new country has the drive and intelligence to appreciate the need for higher education. The figures at this school to which I am referring now are based on a total enrolment of 630 students. Out of a total enrolment of 630 children there are 246 children of migrant parents, which represents over 40 per cent of the total enrolment. Children of migrant parents whose native language was not English represent approximately 24 per cent of the total enrolment; children from homes where English is not the commonly used language represent approximately 20 per cent; children whose parents could not speak English fluently or write it represented 9 per cent; and children whose lack of English posed a handicap to their learn ing represented 3 per cent, which is a quite high figure.

One of the biggest difficulties which teachers at the Dandenong technical school experienced was communicating with the parents of these migrant children, both from the simplest level of understanding why a child was absent from school to the matter of giving educational or vocational advice or counselling. The teachers suggested that one way the Government could assist was to provide trained teachers, and again I want to emphasise this point. I want to refer to another secondary school - the Springvale high school. Of a total enrolment of 835 students. 230 are children of migrant parents, and of those 230 students. 55 are having difficulty with English at their particular form level. Twenty-four of these students are in constant need of assistance, and some recent arrivals have no knowledge of English at all. The remaining 31 students are also in need of instruction. Speaking generally, the teachers at this school said that children of migrant parents measure up quite well academically with the Australian born child, but that many find their task made much harder by their struggle with English, particularly in some cases because of the habit, or insistence, of parents in speaking their native tongue in the home. This imposes quite a handicap on these children as they have to cope with 2 languages - English at school and their native tongue at home. Again, what the Springvale high school urgently needs is a trained teacher in. English. i could go on and refer quickly to other schools. At the Noble Park high school there are 300 migrant children out of a total enrolment of 1,000. Mainly they are the southern European children who are having the most difficulty with English at this school. I want to refer to St John’s Regional College in Dandenong, which is an independent school. Of a total enrolment of 450, approximately 130 are children of migrant parents. The migrant children at this school do not encounter difficulties with English to any marked degree, although naturally there are exceptions. Those of Italian extraction” generally seem to have more difficulty than the other migrant children.I have referred to secondary schools. 1 want to refer quickly to a few statistics regarding primary schools because these schools, in the main, encounter greater difficulties with migrant children speaking the English language than do the secondary schools.

At the Dandenong South school there are 280 migrant children out of a total enrolment of 506, and of these 280, 105 are White Russian children. The principal of this school said:

New arrivals at this school have to be given an intensive course in English language skills until they can understand what the grade teacher is talking about. Obviously, these children cannot progress very far until a knowledge of basic English is gained.

He went on to say:

Generally, no English is spoken at home.

Again this presents a great problem for these children because, as I have mentioned, they have to cope with 2 languages. I also refer to the Noble Park primary school. Out. of a total enrolment of 650, 200 are children of migrant parents. The principal of this school, in a letter, stated:

Once the English language is mastered migrant children can manage at an average level. This period varies with the age - the younger children assimilate fairly readily - the older children find the language barrier the cause of loneliness.

She also stated:

It is difficult to help slow learners within the migrant group - I have taken Italian children who have been with us for 3 years who still have difficulty in coping at grade level.

The last school that I want to mention is the Dandenong West Primary School. Approximately 150 children from migrant parents are attending this school which has an enrolment of 600. At present 20 of these children have little or no English. Migrant children participate very eagerly in all sporting activities. They measure up well academically once the language difficulties are overcome. This seems to be the main problem. They cannot cope very well until they master the English language.

I want quickly to summarise my remarks. In practically all of the schools that I have mentioned one of the most pressing problems with non-English speaking migrant children is that there is a complete lack of contact with their parents. Children returning home from school have to communicate in their native tongue and this imposes great stress on a young child who has to cope with 2 languages. Statistics obtained from the Dandenong Technical School show that only 30 per cent of parents from non-English speaking countries can speak English. Other schools show similar results. Many of the non-English speaking migrant children are at a distinct disadvantage with their parents conversing only in their native tongues. I am sure that one of the reasons for this is that they have never had an opportunity of readily mastering English. This is particularly so with women who do not have the same opportunities as men. 1 know that crash courses in English operate in most of the States. I have attended such a course in Canberra. Another is conducted at Enterprise, the migrant hostel in my electorate, butI am thinking mainly of the non-English speaking migrant women.

To me there appears to be no reason why small classes could not be conducted in the home, local church hall or even infant welfare centre. If we want happy contented migrants it is essential that they have a good command of English. I should like the Minister to give further consideration to the provision of English lessons for migrants in such places as homes and church halls, I will explain quickly what I mean. Migrant women who are having difficulty with English are not anxious to attend large classes in public for various reasons, including embarrassment. They realise that they would have difficulty in coping in a large class and they have home commitments. Such women, however, are more inclined to attend a small private class for numbers between 5 and 10. Such a class was established last year in Doveton in my electorate at the local infant welfare centre where women could attend and leave their babies under the care of the infant welfare teacher. If we could foster more of these small classes this would be a good way of enabling the housebound wife to obtain a better understanding of the English language. This proposal, of course, could be implemented to some extent under the grant in aid scheme which is operating in some centres.

Finally I want to list the main points which I trust will receive consideration. From my observations many Greeks, Italians, Yugoslavs and Turks are in need of intensive courses in English because, in the main, their children have to cope with 2 languages as little English is spoken in the home. Many of these migrants have no desire to learn English and they forbid the use of it in the home. One of the greatest difficulties is to communicate with the parents from the simple level of understanding why the child was absent from school to the matter of giving educational and vocational advice or counselling.

Children who have migrated at secondary level sometimes have acute difficulties, particularly where parents do not speak English at home. These parents should be contacted by interpreters and given intensive training in the English language. This would ease considerably the burden on the children. It was interesting to note from the survey carried out among children in the Holt electorate that few retained their cultural talents. Perhaps greater opportunity should be given to schools to encourage children to retain their native culture.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The honourable member’s time has expired.

Dr KLUGMAN:
Prospect

– I should like to make a number of points. Firstly I shall make some general points on the subject and, secondly, 1 shall deal with some of the questions that I would ask the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) arising out of the Bill and the comments he made during his second reading speech. In some ways 1 suppose that I am unique in that I am probably the only member in this House who arrived in this country young enough to go straight into school and I was unable to speak English at the time. I do not think that the general problems which now face many migrant children faced me and therefore I would not claim any special expertise on the basis of my own antecedents. The only point I make here is that for that reason I probably have more contact with the migrant groups in the area I represent and in the area of Sydney generally and 1 know most of the problems with which they are faced.

I think that immigration too often is viewed on a statistical basis rather than on a human and sociological basis. Often the native borne Australian views it on a statistical basis and not from the migrants’ point of view. I should like to raise that point of view on a few issues. 1 am sure that the proposition which I should like to put forward is not novel, but basically there are 4 causes of difficulty for migrant children: Firstly, the question of education in a foreign language; secondly, the question of education in an alien culture; thirdly, the low income of the parents in many cases; and, fourthly, the concentration of migrants in relatively depressed urban areas with their depressed schools.

In passing I should like to make the point to the Minister that when we speak about migrant education we are trying to deal with the special problems arising out of migrant education and we must not forget that about half of the migrant children are, in fact, English-speaking children, but they still put a terrific amount of pressure on our Stale education systems and on our private education systems. Even though they are English-speaking, nonetheless they make up large numbers, and from that point of view I should hope that now that the Minister has shown that money can be given by the Commonwealth Government to the education systems for specific purposes he will continue to do so and supply extra money.

I do not think that there is any need to go into details on the question of the special problems facing these children because of their parents’ incomes when they first arrive in Australia. We are all aware of these. Basically we are dealing with students who come from another culture. They are faced with a different set of values and customs and often a new language. To refer to them as a ‘problem’ is to do them an injustice. What we must do is to realise the problems that they are facing. They themselves are not the problem; they themselves are facing certain problems. lt is essential for us as human beings to realise the problems that they are facing. We have to assist these students to solve their problems. We have to assist them to gain an education and to understand though not necessarily believe Australian values and customs. I think it is important to press this. We do not necessarily need to make them believe in Australian values and customs, or what are generally pushed forward as Austraiian values and customs. We have to give them assistance in learning the English language. This is a fairly complex task. What we have to do is to explain to migrants what allegedly the average Australian considers to be Australian values and customs. Let us be quite clear on this. There is no more obvious place than this House in which to see that there are vast differences of opinion as to what are Australian values and customs on many issues.

We have to understand and meet the needs of migrant children. This requires an understanding by us and by the education departments of their traditions, beliefs, values, attitudes and expectations. We have to understand that a migrant pupil often lives in a home that is quite different from that of an Australian pupil. This is the case anyway when a migrant child arrives here. We have to understand that the home of a migrant child is different in many significant respects from that of his fellow students or teachers. This by itself faces a migrant pupil with certain conflicts. I do not think it is necessary for me to go into the general argument as to the special tensions which arise in migrant homes between the parents and the children because of 2 different sets of values, 2 languages, and so on. [ think that we have all seen this problem: in any case those honourable members who have not can imagine the sort of problems that arise. I think it is an error to assume that all migrant children wanted to come here. Often their families had little choice because of economic pressure or political pressure in their homeland. Other families have come to Australia because of Australian publicity either from the Government or relatives already here.

I think there is a generally accepted fallacy that things in Australia necessarily are better or more pleasant than in the country from which migrant families come. We may think so and a large proportion of them may think so - we hope they all think so. But it ain’t necessarily so. 1 think that the Minister realises this. He has expressed implied criticism, for example, of our system of social services, when explaining the difficulties that we have in these days in obtaining migrants from many parts of Europe. Therefore it is quite clear that not every migrant is necessarily thankful for having been brought to this country. New students often have different ideas as to what is better or more pleasant. They do not necessarily agree with the majority in Australia as to what is better and more pleasant.

I would now like to refer to the specific propositions that were put to us by the Minister when making his second reading speech. The first part of his speech with which I wish to deal is as follows: . . with the growing emphasis upon air travel we will consider providing educational facilities in aircraft as circumstances permit.

I think this is just a gimmick. Surely this ls not likely to make any significant difference. What will the Department be able to teach these people during the course of a 1-day or 2-day trip in an aircraft?

Mr Lynch:

– Certainly basic concepts could be introduced in the form of instruction of this type?

Dr KLUGMAN:

– -Yes, although 1 think that money could probably be expended more satisfactorily in other ways. The next point - and I think it is an important point - is in this statement by the Minister:

The short title - Immigration (Education) Act 1970 - indicates that the source of power for the Bill derives from the immigration provision in the Constitution.

I am pleased that the Minister raised this question because 1 think it shows quite clearly that this Government should also introduce similar types of legislation dealing with immigration (hospitals), immigration (mental hospitals), immigration (councils) and immigration (all kinds of issues). Apparently he believes - and 1 hope he is right - that under the immigration provisions of the Constitution money could be fed to areas such as the States and local government where extra money is needed. Let us be quite clear on this. The fact that we have increased our population bv immigration by a huge number of people has put terrific pressure on other areas of government and not just on education.

The Minister for Immigration recently attended a summer school organised by the Institute of Political Science al which a number of people were critical of Australia’s immigration programme. I could accept some of the criticisms but I was not prepared to accept others. The point I would like to make is that immigration after 21 3’ears of extensive operation is coming into disrepute. A certain amount of anti-foreigner feeling is again developing in this country and is being used by certain people because of the extra pressure that is put on all kinds of facilities and services which have to be provided by State and local government authorities. These bodies cannot provide facilities because they have no money. The Commonwealth Government refuses to be involved in the question of mental hospitals; it refuses to be involved in the question of local government and says that it cannot supply money. Surely if the Minister really believes that the immigration programme ought to be continued, from the point of view of public relations, if from no other aspect, it should be possible to show that a certain amount of money is being given to the States and local government on the basis that it is money to reimburse them for extra costs due to the immigration programme.

In paragraph (b) of sub-clause (I.) of clause 4 reference is made to citizenship education. 1 think this is an important point although we have to be very careful that we do not finish up with indoctrination. Earlier in this session the question of so-called citizenship education was raised by one of my colleagues - I cannot recall who it was - with reference to the Army. I hope we do not finish up with the type of citizenship education whereby only one point of view is put to people. I am not suggesting that this will happen because 1 assume thai the people who will be in charge of this education will be people who are normally attached to our education departments rather than Army officers who are selected to put forward the point of view of this Government rather than the point of view of many of its critics. When we are talking about citizenship education in the context of migrant education one of the points that should be considered at least is the question of instructing Australian children in the same schools and certainly in schools in areas where a large proportion of the migrant children come from one country, be it Italy, Greece or Turkey. Australian children in these schools should be instructed in the culture and history of the country from which the migrant children have come. This should have a twofold effect - I hope it would have thai effect.. On the one hand it would make it possible for Australian kids to understand some of the attitudes of the other children. Secondly - and I think that this is probably just as important - it would make the migrant child feel reason ably proud of his origin; it would not make him feel that he had a non-existent background. He would not feel that from the time he arrived in this country the only history would be British history and Australian history. He would feel that there was still history concerning his country of origin. I think that the question of morale is an important point to raise.

I am one of those who oppose the proposition which is often put up by many migrant groups that they should be organised into migrant communities and given nationalistic fervour by, for instance, the teaching of the language of their home country. We would counteract such drives among certain groups in our migrant population if in the schools that the children of these migrants attended, Italian history, Turkish history, German history, or whatever it may be, were taught. This would make these people feel reasonably happy about what was happening.

I come to another question that 1 wish to raise, in his second reading speech, the Minister refers to allowances and so on which are at present under review. 1 ask whether these allowances in fact have been altered now because of the inflationary spiral which some Ministers have accepted does exist? Another point that has been raised with me by school teachers with whom I have discussed these general issues is that it is important that we - by ‘we’. I mean the Commonwealth Parliament which will pass this legislation - provide funds for additional teachers to work as special teachers to deal with these migrants. What should happen is not that an ordinary teacher in an education department should be classed as a special teacher for this purpose but that an extra teacher should be provided for these migrants. It is necessary to have that extra teacher on the staff. I will be interested to hear whether in fact this happens at the present time.

I turn now to the question of establishing the abilities of children early in life-. I think this sorting out process is wrong even from the point of view of the Australian child but certainly it is very wrong from the point of view of the migrant child. It is wrong to sort the migrant child into some stream which will determine his or her later educational expectation on the basis of some test which is given soon after the arrival of that child in this country.IQ tests, aptitude tests and so on will give completely wrong readings in the case of the child who has arrived in Australia only recently. The position of this child is completely different from that of an Australian child. Two points of difference to be considered are the language barrier and the whole cultural background of the immigrant child. Therefore, it is extremely difficult for the migrant child to obtain adequate marks in the first test of this type that he or she faces. I hope that the Department of Immigration will strive to discourage State education departments from screening children with a migrant background too soon after their arrival in Australia.

The final point that I wish to make - this is a general point - is that, basically, 1 am in agreement with the aims of the Minister. I think that he is sympathetic to the general immigration proposition and the problems surrounding it.I think that a danger exists these days because many people who support the views expressed by the Government and Opposition Parties in this House are starting to talk about the quality of migrants. I am extremely disappointed when people make value judgments to the effect that, somehow or other, a migrant who comes from Germany or Holland is preferable in some absolute way to a migrant who comes from Italy, Greece or Turkey. I think that this sort of judgment should not be made. I was disappointed that at the conference to which I referred earlier there were people who talked about racial equality, who opposed our so-called white Australia policy and who encouraged immigration on a non racial basis. One of the arguments that they put forward is: Why should we discourage a Chinese doctor who can speak English coming to Australia from Hong Kong while we accept a peasant from Southern Italy? These people are making value judgments in the same way as those who oppose the immigration of Chinese are making value judgments. I am strongly opposed to that type of judgment.

In considering the subject of immigration, I believe that to some extent we must look at it from the point of view of the migrant. We just do not want only well off or potentially well off migrants. We must take a humane point of view. We want people, to some extent I would hope, who will benefit most by coming to Australia. They may benefit most from an economic or a political point ofview. They may be trying to escape economic or political pressures. 1 hope that the Minister, when he is dealing with people who criticise our immigration policy by using statistics as many people do. will remember an old saying in the medical profession which is: Statistics are like psychiatrists; they will testify for either side. I hope that the Minister will keep that in mind when dealing with these matter.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Scholes:
CORIO, VICTORIA

– Order! The honourable member’s time has expired.

Mr McLEAY:
Boothby

- Mr Deputy Speaker, immigration is one of the few subjects on which Government and Opposition members agree pretty much on all aspects. I know from listening to the speech by the honourable member for Prospect (Dr Klugman), who has just resumed his seat and to the speech delivered by the honourable member who preceded him, that this view has been confirmed in respect of this legislation. One could continue by saying in respect of this measure: ‘We support it. We support it. We should have had this proposal years ago. We support it.’ But it is necessary to say a little more than that, particularly because of the amendment which has been moved by the Opposition. To say the least, I think that the amendment is a trifle unfair, particularly the part which states: . . this House condemns the Government for the delay in providing a comprehensive programme of migration education, adequate finance facilities and capital equipment, including buildings.

I think that it is reasonable to defend the Government and to say that, after all, this whole question of education is and has been traditionally and constitutionally a State responsibility as is the sponsorship of migrants. The responsibility of the Commonwealth virtually has been in the recruitment of migrants. Let me set out some of the questions that we should be asking ourselves. I hope that, in the cost/ benefit analysis which the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) has arranged - for which I congratulate him - these questions which I would like to have dealt with will be answered. For example, one question that I would ask is: Just how large should our population be? I do not know, who knows what it ought to be? Should it be 13 million, 30 million or 130 million? It seems to me that this is a most important questionthat we should be asking ourselves. Some optimum figure must be established somewhere. 1 am not one of those who believe any longer that we must populate or perish.

Going back over the history of immigration. I remember very well, without referring to the quality of life, the quality of the migrants who came to us after World War II. The quality of these migrants was absolutely superlative. We would like to see migrants of this type continue to be attractedto Australia.

Mr Daly:

– We got some good ones at Port Arthur some time ago.

Mr McLEAY:

– I am referring to the migrants who came to Australia after the Second World War. They were displaced people from Europe who had very strong motives for coming to this country. These people have proved to be excellent migrants. But I believe the motives for immigration have changed since those years. One of the problems is that we cannot control the flow of immigration by, as it were, turning the tap on and turning the tap off. What we can do though, 1 think, is perhaps to have a gentle easing of the flow from the tap to look at the quality of the material that iscoming out of it. I was interested to hear the Minister during question time today announce that our migrant intake for this year will be about 10,000 fewer than the original target of 180,000. I think that we should, if nothing else, be self critical on some of these subjects. 1 believe that our migration programme has been totally successful, although it has created areas of underprivilege in the community. It has been a compassionate policy and, in my view, it is the best migration policy in the world. It is selective, it is true: but it is selective because we wish to preserve a homogeneous population and because we have deliberately set out not to create a multi-racial society. But I think we must agree that along the line we have set up some pockets of underprivilege.

We hear at odd times, when we can sort out the sense, criticism by some people of the pensioner arrangements and, in particular, criticism of the recent pension increases. Without going over the previous debates, 1 would like to reiterate my view that one of the most serious areas of underprivilege in addition to the single pensioner group is amongst migrants. The migrant pensioner is in an even worse situation. I had a classic case brought to my attention only last week. It related to a migrant pensioner who had died and left a widow with 5 children. Even when that migrant was alive and employed, he, like a million other people in this country, was receiving a wage of approximately only $50 a week. I believe that that is the most serious area of underprivilege or poverty, if we can put it that way. Of course, the reason for it is the one we are trying to eliminate today. This man had the serious disadvantage of not being able to speak our language. There would be another million people like him confined largely to working in road gangs or in an unskilled capacity.

I compare the situation of migrant families and migrant children with that of the mentally handicapped. I think they are equally handicapped. They do not have the same sort of support as the mentally handicapped. In the last session of Parliament we passed legislation for the assistance of mentally handicapped children. There is a community acceptance of and compassion for these people. I have been for years a member ofan association concerned with mentally handicapped children. Members of these associations have parents and friends who can apply pressures on the Government, but migrants are not in that position.

There is also a tendency for people to compare our system with the system in other countries. In particular, there has been comparison with the Canadian system. Under that system. Canada seeks to attract only those migrants with skills. It employs what is called a points system. In general terms, someone achieving over 40 points out of a maximum of 100 is admitted as a migrant. It is interesting to note that 30 points are alloted to a migrant who has an education and that another 10 are allotted to someone who is fluent in French and English. It is also interesting that 27 per cent of the population of Canada is of neither French nor English origin. There is significant racial discontent in that country, which is what I am sure we jointly seek to avoid in this country.

Like other speakers, I find that migrant children suffer a serious disability in some of the schools in my electorate. I find that the problem varies from school to school. In those schools in the inner suburbs and in the older established areas there is a very high percentage of migrant children in all the classes. The number becomes fewer as we get through into the secondary classes. I understand that there are fewer migrants in country schools. But in at least one school in my electorate and in at least one class in this school every child is a migrant and none of them has a proper command of the English language. I understand that 5 per cent of the school population are migrant children, but of course this percentage must be very much higher in many of the schools. I may be making a mild criticism, but I think it is most important for us to organise teaching of English to intending migrants in their own country. If we could pay a subsidy or spend time and effort, and therefore money, to introduce the teaching of English into schools in Greece, Turkey or any of the other European countries, that would be money very well spent. Notes which refer to what is done in these countries have been circulated, and somewhere or other they mention preembarkation language instruction in Turkey and Greece in particular. But 1 would make the point that Greece, for example, is a country of dozens and dozens of islands, and very few of the Greek migrants can possibly have any pre-embarkation language instruction. Even then, many of those coming to this country - 1 do not know what the figure is now but I believe it is about 40 per cent - travel by air, so there is no opportunity for them to have lessons in the language while they are travelling to Australia.

I have heard a considerable amount of criticism of recent arrivals, particularly those from the United Kingdom. I think it is permissible to refer to quality in that way. I have spoken to welfare officers and chaplains who have in the last few months come to Australia on vessels carrying migrants, and there seems to be no doubt that a large number - 10 per cent is a large number - of persons coming to Australia at the moment from the United Kingdom are really coming here for a holiday. I would like to see the Minister and the Department have a look at that matter. I am also concerned about the problems which are arising within the’ Yugoslav community in Australia because, as I recollect, when this legislation was foreshadowed and the immigration agreement with Yugoslavia was entered into a year or so ago the arrangement was that we were to receive a very large number of skilled tradesmen migrants. I do not believe that this is what is happening. I believe that we are receiving large numbers of unskilled Yugoslavs and people who cannot speak our language. There is a considerable amount of discontent in the Yugoslav community in Australia. I would (ike to mention briefly the Tregillis report on the training of skilled workers in Europe.

Mr Daly:

– What the honourable member is saying is very interesting but it is a long way from the Bill.

Mr McLEAY:

– 1 made the point earlier that, if we approve of this Bill, all we can keep on saying is: ‘I approve of the Bill’. I think there are some things in the Bill and some attitudes about our immigration policy that can be altered. In any case, I think that the amendment moved by the Opposition is to be deplored, so I am attempting to resist it. I will now deal briefly with the Tregillis report. I hope that we will have the opportunity at some time in the future to debate this report in some detail. It refers to the report of the Vernon Committee of Economic Inquiry in 1965 and draws attention to the matter of education. It states:

  1. . the problem of increasing the skilled work force ‘will not be solved by- raising the immigration target in order to acquire more craftsmen from overseas, although anything that can be done to increase the proportion of skilled persons among immigrants will be useful’.

Threaded all through this report are references to the need for a better understanding of our language and a better understanding of tradesmen’s skills among migrants. I think that we can find evidence there to support what we have to say. I want to mention briefly a couple of points raised by the honourable member for Prospect (Dr Klugman). He had some sort of odd constitutional theory in respect of migration and he felt that we could in some way or other get around the Constitution and feed money into hospitals, health services, mental institutions and local government. I would like to say that that is precisely what we are not seeking to do. The whole purpose of encouraging migrants to learn English is to try to integrate them into our own community and not allow them to become separate. We surely do not want a situation where we have separate hospitals and separate local authorities. The honourable member also opposed the ethnic groupings in the community and in this I would disagree with him quite strongly and put in a word in support of ethnic groupings. I believe that they are of considerable benefit to migrants and I am thinking in particular of the Greek community and how much it has done to help Greek migrants in counselling, securing employment and general social welfare work.

As a final comment in this debate I would like to refer to some remarks made by the honourable member for Riverina (Mr Grassby) outside the House at the eighteenth Australian Citizenship Convention which I think expressed a quite asinine point of view. He said:

One group of migrants now coming in who have no ethnic group or particular affiliations in Australia are Asians. I have helped in settling some Asian migrants and generally the Department of Immigration has been helpful, effective and speei.lv. But there is confusion and misunderstanding in both Asia and Australia about procedures.

Air Grassby - That is right.

Mr McLEAY:

– We will deal with that in a moment. The honourable member said further: lt is desirable to overcome this, and a very simple way would be to have a special office in an Asian capital, perhaps Manila, where a team of skilled people could clear the confusion.

I would suggest that the only confusion that exists is in the honourable member’s mind because the Philippines is one country with which we do not have any arrangement. Although we take some Filipino migrants it does not accept any from Australia. Our policy on non-European migration is very well known and if it is not well known and understood it is entirely the fault of persons like the honourable member for Riverina and the honourable member for Sturt (Mr Foster). It is up to us to understand our policy and to go out and sell it.

This is an area of migration which we should examine much more closely. I am sure we all have cases of people who have come to Australia and spent many years here and become more Australian than Asian and wish to stay on that basis. This is, I think, unfortunate because they come to this country to learn a skill and take the skill back to their own country. I wonder whether the Government, and perhaps both parties, could give consideration to the suggestion of training Asian people in their own countries. I understand that at any one time in this country 12 per cent of students who wish to attend university are excluded from courses because of the number of Asians in the faculties. That is fair enough, but when large percentages of those students come back here this seems to me to be unfair to the Australian born student. I wonder if we and the Asians would not get better value for our money if we set up a university for example in Singapore and sent our own staff - lecturers and academics - to train Singaporeans, Malaysians. Indians and any other people one cares to suggest. I think the Bill is an excellent move. It is a shame it did not happen years ago but we have to remember that previous Ministers have had to make agreements with all the States and to make an agreement at that level on any subject is. 1 think, an achievement. I support the Bill and strongly oppose the amendment.

Mr Keith Johnson:
BURKE, VICTORIA · ALP

– I am glad that the honourable member for Boothby (Mr McLeay) advised us that he supports the Bill because I listened to him patiently for 20 minutes and frankly I found him talking about things other than matters that are contained in the Bill. But this is not unusual. The honourable member’s views on immigration and matters of this nature are very well known. He has made them very clear and he did nothing today to dispel that clarity. He said that the Australian Government’s immigration policy is well known. That is true, but 1 am wondering if it is known well. He also spoke of ethnic groups in the community. I am wondering if he has not used this expression to connote ghettos. It seems to me that when the question of immigration is mentioned not only the honourable member for Boothby but also a number of other honourable members on the other side of the House seem to be very condescending in their attitude towards the whole question.

People from overseas seem to become something different. Those honourable members seem to forget that Australian history is one of immigration and that the honourable member for Boothby is a descendant of immigrants, as 1 am and as is every other member who sits in this House. The only difference might be that some of our forebears came out here under their own steam.

This whole question of the education of the children of migrants is a very important one and it is very interesting to note the number of honourable members who have offered to speak on the subject because it takes their attention. In my own electorate of Burke is situated the Broadmeadows Migrant Hostel which creates a peculiar problem for the East Meadows State School. This school is not very far from the migrant hostel and as a result all the children of school age who reside in the hostel attend this school. It has become a fact of life that migrants stay at hostels for approximately 3 months. This is the case in Broadmeadows. After this 3-month period they move out of the hostel and go to live with compatriots. What sort of situation that createsI would not like to hazard a guess. It solves one problem for the Commonwealth Government in that it does not have to provide so much hostel accommodation because the turnover is so high but this in turn creates a problem for the local State school. The high turnover of migrants in the hostels means that the students are at the school for approximately 3 months. The number of migrant children at the school is always about 100 but they are not the same children. They change every 3 months. I am now speaking in favour of the amendment.

Some accommodation at the school is used to teach the children of migrants living in the hostel. As a result of this the children of the residents of the area - shall we call them the permanent students of the school - do not have the advantage of a library or an arts and crafts room because the 2 rooms that would be used for those purposes are used to accommodate migrant children. The Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) is well aware of the matter about which I speak because I wrote to him about it in the middle of last year. I appreciate the fact that he cannot answer my letter because this matter has not yet been resolved by the Parliament. I am fully cognisant of that but we should be looking at the problems that arise with the accommodation that is available. My colleague the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) in moving his amendment is endeavouring to draw the attention of the Government to a very real problem.

It has already been pointed out that there will be some sort of a problem in providing the number of trained teachers required. 1 suppose the teaching aids - the tape recorders and all the rest of it - can be purchased readily but accommodation for the students is a very real problem. There are many problems which arise in these schools and one is the lack of accommodation due to the fact that the rooms are occupied by migrant children. For the 3 months they are there, the children of migrants sit blankly and stare into space because they cannot comprehend what is taking place around them. The teachers who are available endeavour to give those children as much attention as they can but of course this is to the detriment of the students who are already at the school. Frankly this problem goes a lot deeper than the teaching of English to the children of migrants. Having spoken to the principals and teachers of schools in my electorate my experience is that the percentage of native born children in Australia who are receiving a very good education in the English language is not very high. We have to delve a lot deeper into this matter.

Today we arc dealing with the question of teaching the English language to migrants. The problem of understanding the English language and the ability to communicate with one another is probably much deeper than is appreciated by a large section of the community. We heard speeches today about ethnic groupings in the community. As a contradiction we have also had honourable members speaking in this place about integration. It is true that in Melbourne there is a newspaper called ‘Times of Malta’ which is printed entirely in the Maltese language. There are 2 newspapers entitled ‘La Fiamma’ and ‘Il Globo’ which are printed entirely in the Italian language. There is also the ‘Kosmos’ newspaper which is printed in the Greek language. There are probably others but they are the only ones I know of. One newspaper which is circulated in my own electorate - a free newspaper supported by the local merchants in the town through their advertising - prints on 1 page in the Italian language the news reported elsewhere in the newspaper in the English language. 1 suppose it is the old story of too little too late. This is a criticism which the Government must be used to hearing. 1 wonder how deep this problem is within the community when we have a need for newspapers to be printed in other than the English language so that people can find out what is going on around the place. 1 will not be so parochial as to pretend that if I were to go to Italy. Malta, Greece, Spain or anywhere else I would not gravitate towards someone who spoke English, or that I would reject the chance of reading an English newspaper. But at the same time if we are to talk about, to use the words of our esteemed Prime Minister (Mr Gorton), a multiracial society-

Mr Grassby:

– Homogeneous.

Mr Keith Johnson:
BURKE, VICTORIA · ALP

– Perhaps my English is not as good as it ought to be. The problem of these migrant people living in ghettos and reading newspapers in their native language has to be solved. I thought that the honourable member for Denison (Dr Solomon) made quite a sound contribution to the debate on this Bill last night when he said that the hows, whys and the wherefores have to bc obtained. In other words, what sort of incentive will be offered these people to learn the English language? At present there is precious little incentive. I would not know 1 migrant .’who is disadvantaged through nol knowing the English language. He can make purchases in a shop which has a shopkeeper of his own nationality. He can read newspapers printed in his own language. He is not seriously disadvantaged by not knowing the English language. He works in a factory where the foreman is probably of the same nationality. We should nol fall for the trap of believing that all foremen or shopkeepers are necessarily Anglo-Saxon or that they all have a very fine command of the English language and no knowledge of any other language. The incentive has to be found to encour age migrant women, migrant men and their children to learn the English language.

Although this Bill goes part of the way towards achieving this objective it just does not go far enough. This is a criticism which the Opposition constantly levels at this Government and I think the Government has come to expect it. The Bill does not get to the root cause of the problem. This is a situation which has grown up not over the last 3 or 5 years but over the last 20 years. No attempt whatsoever has been made to recognise the problem, nor has any step been taken to prevent it from becoming the serious problem that it is now recognised to be. As I have already said the Government expects the criticism of doing too little too late. It is a legitimate criticism and the Government knows that. The honourable member for Denison, whom I complimented for the contribution he made to this debate, raised only the issue of incentive. However, I do not expect him or any other member of this House to have the answer to this question. The very weak attitude which he took towards the amendment - this was his only opposition to it- was that the Commonwealth Government should not make provision for buildings because the buildings, would be used only part of the day. The honourable member also said that schools are used in the same way but that is not a very strong argument to put forward against the amendment moved by the Opposition.

I listened very carefully to what the honourable member said and as far as I could understand that was his reason for opposing the amendment. But I wonder how valid his criticism is. Those of us who live in the capital cities know that there is no shortage of development of real estate in the inner city areas. In my view the priorities of our latter day society - our contemporary society - are very cockeyed. There seems to be no shortage of men, money or materials for the erector of large multi-storey office blocks in prime locations in prime business sectors, but these things never seem to be available for the construction of a hospital or another classroom for a school. The argument that these things can be made available in one quarter but not in another does not hold water. If they are available to build office blocks they are available to build schools and hospitals.

Because the argument cannot hold water any more the old cliches start to rise and we start saying: ‘You can cut only so many slices from a cake.’ However, if all the ingredients are used the cake would become larger and many more slices could be cut from it. To my mind the whole argument revolves around a double barrelled question. Firstly: Are all of the resources of the nation being used in the best interests of the community? Secondly: Are all the available resources equitably tapped? We on this side of the House see a Government that I regard as being the marionette of the cold hard hand of capitalism and it always says no. If there were a government in this country which was capable, able and willing to plan it would provide an affirmative answer to those questions. If this country, notwithstanding all the turmoil in which it now finds itself, can survive long enough the Australian Labor Parly will provide such a government next year. Then no doubt the country will once again find itself on the road to prosperity.

The honourable member for Denison recited a story to illustrate a migrant’s lack of the English language. That story reminded me of the time when I was a trade union official and I asked a small chap who camefrom central Europe to join my union. He was not very happy about the whole thing and we had quite a lengthy discussion. Finally he got down almost on his knees, looked up into my face and said:’You know what you don’t know?’ That confused me but I thought the answer must he no and I said ‘No’. He said ‘Well, you don’t know nothin’ about nothin’: that’s what you don’t know.’ That man had trouble in communication. I am afraid 1 did not know what he meant.

Mr Bryant:

– It was good strine.

Mr Keith Johnson:
BURKE, VICTORIA · ALP

– Yes, it was good strine. There was a man who obviously could have been assisted in his communication had he had the advantage of being able to study the English language. I commend the amendment to the House. It takes nothing whatever away from the motion. In fact it adds to it. Obviously the objection of the Government will be that it is going to cost money.

Seeing that the Government is hooked on this jog of an anti-inflationary squeeze at the moment and the Prime Minister is determined to prove to everybody that he is going to solve the situation, I believe that the amendment will not find sympathy amongst the Government supporters. The honourable member for Boothby said that the House seemed to be in agreement on the matter. If the House is in agreement on the matter it should be sincere and make every endeavour to do all the things necessary to make the legislation work. To make it work we have to have accommodation, and that, in effect, is what the amendment says. I commend the amendment to the House.

Mr JARMAN:
Deakin

– One cannot help but have the greatest admiration for a migrant family who uproot themselves from the country of their birth and travel halfway around the world in search of a new and better life. Some years ago 1 stood on the wharf at Portree in the Isle of Skye and thought of how, some 100 years before, my grandmother who was only a girl at the time set sail to come to Australia. In those days the voyage took 6 months. It took a lot of determination and courage to make such a voyage. . I believe that it is due to the characteristics of people such as these that Australia is the nation which it is today. It is far less difficult for a British migrant to be assimilated into the Australian way of life than it is for a non-British migrant. Our cultures are the same. Many of our laws are the same. Most important of all, we speak the same language.

There is no problem of communication. But how much more difficult it is for the Greek, the Yugoslav, the Italian and people of other nationalities who, with their various differing backgrounds, find themselves unable to speak the language of the new country of their choice. Three sections of the migrant family are affected by this communication barrier: The breadwinner, the housewife and the children. The breadwinner, who is immediately thrown out into the work force, soon picks up a smattering of English. He, of necessity, is probably the first in the family to understand and speak the English language. The problem of the housewife is more difficult. She is at home all day, running the household and has less need to learn English quickly. Then, of course, there are the children who at school, through mixing with Australian kiddies, have a much better chance of picking up English than their mother has.

The unfortunate thing is that when the family comes home to the mother at night probably they all take the easy course of conversing in their own tongue. The influx into schools of migrant children with a language disability in English has created great problems not only for the children but also for the schools. Although these children will gradually pick up meaningful words and phrases they are at a grave disadvantage in following normal lessons given in English. Not only do we have a duty and a responsibility to the people whom we have brought to Australia but also it is in our own interests that these people be assimilated and integrated as early as possible. The Bill before the House tackles this problem. It provides for an adult programme, a child education programme and an intensive course programme.

The course in assimilation starts with pre-embarkation instruction. It gives instruction which is continued during the voyage. After arrival in Australia a further course is made available. During the recess last year the Government members immigration committee flew to Perth and joined the migrant vessel ‘Australis’ on its trip to Melbourne. We sat in on a number of classes whilst on board. We were most impressed not only with the type of instruction given but also with the interest of the migrants in the lessons. Approximately 50 per cent of migrants still come to Australia by sea, and the 3 weeks sea voyage is a wonderful opportunity for the 40,000 non-English speaking migrants who arrive here annually by this means to receive tuition in English and the Australian way of life. It provides a useful link between the pre-embarkation instruction and the courses available in Australia.

On arrival in Melbourne the committee visited the new Enterprise Hostel in Victoria. At this hostel special classes have been set up to prepare non-English speaking migrant children of primary and secondary school age to enter Australian schools. There are also day and evening classes available for adults. Both the State and independent schools have to cope with the problem of educating migrant children. I am pleased that the Bill provides assistance for both types of school. The assistance to be given in both teacher training and capital equipment such as language laboratories should help greatly in the education and assimilation of migrant children. Last night in this House the Prime Minister (Mr Gorton) announced what cuts would be made in Government expenditure as part of the fight against inflation. Last year Australia absorbed about 185,000 migrants. I was sorry to hear the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) announce at question time today that our migrant intake this year will be cut back to about 170,000. I understand that the Department of Immigration aims to save S2.6m in salaries, administration expenses, capital works and services, and migrant embarkation costs.

My colleague, the honourable member for Boothby (Mr McLeay), said earlier in this debate that we cannot turn migration on and off like a tap. I believe that it is a retrograde step in Australia’s development to cut back our intake of migrants. I am pleased, however, to !earn that migrant education and welfare will not be restricted for financial reasons. Recently the Melbourne ‘Herald’ invited readers to send in letters to the editor on how the Government could save money. I would like to read to the House one of the letters which. I think, illustrates how ill-informed some members of the public are. The writer of this letter is a lady from Montmorency, which used to be in the electorate of Deakin but now is in the electorate of Diamond Valley. She said:

Cut out all migration on assisted passages and all migrants must have a knowledge of English, cutting out time and money spent with special classes. All migrants to be naturalised after 10 years in Australia.

Much money is spent bringing migrants out on cheap fares, more is spent teaching them and their children English, and a lot of them return home after making money. Migrants not becoming Australian citizens by or before .10 years to return to their own countries.

From her letter one would be forgiven for assuming she would have benefited from some English lessons.

Mr Daly:

– You soon got rid of her, didn’t you?

Mr JARMAN:

– I was glad she went. I hope that the Government will not be influenced by this type of thinking. We have heard it from a number of quarters - from industry and manufacturers - that migrants are creating a strain on the economy and that the programme should be cut back. 1 believe that it is not in the long term interests of Australia that this should occur.In his policy speech before the 1969 election the Prime Minister announced the Government’s intention to take the initiative in promoting and accepting responsibility for expanding the existing facilities for the instruction of adult migrants, to provide intensive full time English courses and to provide special courses in existing schools for migrant children. The Bill fulfils that promise. It will do a great deal to help migrants to become assimilated. It will do much for the migrant and for Australia. It is worthy of the support of all honourable members. The amendment moved by the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) means nothing. It is a criticism which serves no purpose at all. I cannot for the life of me see how the honourable member for Burke (Mr Keith Johnson) could have made the statement that the amendment adds to the Bill. I believe that it should be treated with the contempt it deserves and be rejected outright.

Mr LIONEL BOWEN:
Smith · KINGSFORD-SMITH, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

-In my electorate there is a large number of new settlers. Quite obviously there has been a problem for them in learning the English language because they could not obtain adequate instruction. It is somewhat of an indictment of any government, irrespective of its political character, that so many people who could not speak English have been encouraged to come to this country and no opportunity has been given to them to learn the language. That in itself creates a great discrimination against many of them. If one looks at the figures showing arrivals of settlers one will see that in the 1970 period the number was as high as 185,000. A large number of them would be very young - under 14 - and perhaps there were some 40,000 under the age of 19. It is that category to which we might address our minds for a start. In the main these would be children who are immediately put into the school system. They are unable to understand the teacher and immediately there is discrimination. At the annual prize-giving at any primary school it will be found that the child, who may be termed a new settler, of parents who obviously cannot speak English is at a disadvantage because he certainly never scores prizes in English. Often he is regarded as being in the slow learner class, not because of any intellectual disability but because he is unable to keep up with the other children, particularly if he is at the age of 8, 9 or 10 years. He is put into that category and finds it very difficult to survive against his counterpart.

Whilst the Bill allocates a sum of money, it seems that we are just allocating a sum of money. Would it not be far better to look at the number who need help? The number who have gone we cannot help. The Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) would know from the statistics available the age groups that have arrived in the country. There would have been a large number of people in the past who should have had the opportunity to learn English quickly. The Government says: We will do something about it. We will allocate a sum of money’. It may be something of a progressive nature; that is commendable. But how many children or adults will still not be able to have the advantage of English instruction because there is insufficient money available for materials, equipment and teachers or, as my colleague the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) says, suitable buildings? Would it not be more appropriate to say. ‘We have 40,000 people arriving this year who have no opportunity to understand the English language. How much money do they need over all age groups to give them the opportunity to understand English within a period of 3 to 6 months?’ It can happen.

Let us look at the problems that we have. There are the primary school children whom I have mentioned. We have the secondary school child who has even more difficulties because he comes into a higher category of education, where there is far more competition, with a basic defect of not being able to understand the English language. He is in difficulty. Then we have the adult who is in one of 2 categories. He might have had a tertiary education in his home land; he might be a tradesman or professional type. Again he is definitely under difficulties since he cannot get the right sort of job here because he cannot speak the language. He needs help. Or he might be a person who might not have had the great benefit of a higher education in his home land but nevertheless needs the essential opportunity of learning to speak English here. So we have those various categories all under difficulties. The common factor, of course, is that they arrive now by aeroplane, mainly. They arrive quickly and usually they are put into hostels. It is an obvious solution, therefore, to provide within that hostel the very facilities which are known to be the best media for giving English instruction.

In my electorate is the University of New South Wales which has a School of Foreign Languages controlled by Mr Garrick, a splendid tutor. He has there all the most modern equipment. He is now able to say - and has evidence to prove it - that by the use of this equipment he can teach people English within 8 weeks. He has now had 2 graduations of people who have passed through that course. In 8 weeks they progress from people who know nothing about English to people who are able to converse with us because Mr Garrick saturates them with English full time for 8 weeks. The Government might say it helps and that it pays these people a sustenance allowance. If it can do that for this group which avails itself of this opportunity, what about the others getting the same opportunity? The Minister can say:’I cannot do that because I have not enough money to provide the equipment that is available at the University of New South Wales.’ But it is essential that it be provided in the hostel because by the provision of the same tutors and the same equipment the people there will be able to converse in English also.

I attended the most recent graduation ceremony. Some 40 to 50 people of 22 different nationalities, none of whom could speak English 8 or 10 weeks before, were able to converse with each other in English. It immediately broke down any racial problems or prejudice because they were able to talk in the common language of their new country. They found great delight in this fact. They did not feel isolated or that they were relegated back to their own ethnic groups because they could converse with any Australian and with each other on the common basis that they were all recent arrivals. These people were joyous at the fact that they were at last accepted in this community and had the opportunity to understand the language. The sad thing is that this would have been the second or third group to have had that opportunity. How many thousands in the past have been denied it? I have been talking about adults but what have been the difficulties of the schoolchildren?

These people were able to go out and get jobs as salesmen or in some professional capacity or some highly skilled trade. They always had that ability but they would not have had those jobs if they had not had the opportunity to learn to communicate in English. Thatin itself was successful. I spoke to Mr Garrick about this problem and he clearly illustrates the advantage of using this equipment. He mentions that there are some objections to just using the human being as a tutor. He mentioned the recent experiences with Aboriginal children. He is able to show by the use of this equipment, by the use of sound and earphones - in other words, a stimulation of the human being - this rapid progress where there was none before. He says that if we were to apply the same methods to children in primary or secondary schools we could get a rapid result with those children who may be somewhat vague as to what a person is trying to tell them in English or when asked to repeat by rote some English word. That in itself does not indicate clearly that they are absorbing it. There is evidence to prove that by using this equipment and the method of listening to records, of speaking English individually and listening to their own voices, in a period of 8 weeks they can come up to a very high standard. This opportunity should be available to every child. It should be available in the schools. If there are no schools which are adequate they should be provided.

In my electorate there is a tremendous number of Greek immigrants who are splendid people. The local public school has had to build 2 new classrooms in the primary sector to provide for the influx of the new Greek children. One can imagine how many immediately suffer a penalty because there is no opportunity at this school for them to learn English. They immediately suffer the penalty I mentioned earlier and this shows up when the examinations are held and they are shown to he not altogether shining in subjects in which they could well have succeeded. Here we have a problem. The Government has said there is a problem. In his second reading speech the Minister said:

Full-scale production of material designed specifically for child migrants will possibly take 2 to 3 years.

Again there is a further delay. How many children will suffer because of that? It is obvious from the experiments undertaken by people such as Mr Garrick that the human being can be taught readily by a number of novel methods to quickly understand the English language.

Why should we do this apart from the reasonsI have mentioned? There are a number of other matters. The 8 weeks course at the moment is sufficient for what might be termed an elementary course in English. It is not altogether complete. Mr Garrick and others say it is essential to have a further follow-up period of some 4 to 6 weeks part time which may be continued on after the 8 weeks period. The most desirable thing to do would be to have at least one 3-hour session a week with people who might be interested in one particular part of trade or industry - say the automobile industry - and gather them together with leaders in the automobile industry so that they can talk in English about that industry and the terms that are used. If we could get them to bring along their relatives and friends that in itself would give a great social backing to the advantage of being part of this community. It is vital that we remain in communication with them and we should encourage them to meet and talk in English. Mr Garrick says the alternative could well be disastrous because if they drop back into the factory where they are not able to continue to converse in English they are prone to get together in their own groups and talk again in their own language. They slip back into that position and this is fatal to any advantages that they would have enjoyed. So the great advantages in the use of proper equipment are already obvious.

Obviously there would be limitations on any scheme if there were no buildings. This seems to be what might be termed a defect in the drafting of the Bill, because the Bill does not provide for any allocation of moneys for buildings. I think that all my colleague is doing is saying: ‘This problem ought to be overcome’. You cannot have this fatal flaw, because equipment cannot be put in a building if there is no building. If we look at the areas where migrants have settled in great numbers we see that the provision of such a building would be well worth while.

Of course we should use hostels if they are already there and put the equipment into them. By all means we should use our resources to the best advantage. But it is rather dismal to think that there has been what might be termed a mere allocation of money and that is as far as we can go in dealing with the question of need, because there are other problems and they are social problems. In my electorate there is a large number of Yugoslavs who have had no real opportunity to learn the English language. Invariably they stay in a hostel for less than 3 months and they quickly go out to work. They work mainly in what might be termed the trades. Many of them are bricklayers. They are splendid types of citizens who have not had a higher or secondary school education in the country from which they have come. They suffer injustices because they are put into the community in Australia and they have to compete with Australian citizens.

Recently 2 Yugoslavs came to my office. They had been in Australia for 10 months. They could not converse with me in English. They had an interpreter with them. This is a clear indication of what can happen. These Yugoslavs had to get out of the hostel and seek other accommodation. They did not know much about rents, leases or contracts of sale because they were not able to communicate in English. So what happened? Somebody encouraged them to look at a broken down old piece of real estate and sold it to them. Within 1 hour they had signed a paper, which was all in English, which stated that they would buy the house, that they would pay $1,000 deposit and that they would repay the balance at $50 a week with an interest rate of 10½ per cent reducible. They knew nothing of what they were doing. They said they thought the man said that they could repay the balance at $30 a month and that they would have a period much longer than 3 years in which to pay it.

I believe them because they would not know what he had said and they would be trying to get a vague indication of what was wanted. This man took them to the bank and he withdrew their money from the bank. He said to them: ‘There is no need to go to any legal adviser. This is quite all right.’ When they returned to their own countrymen 48 hours later and said what they had done, some of their countrymen who could speak English told them in their own language: ‘That was a crazy thing to do. Do you know what you have done?’ They said: ‘No.’ The law in Australia, both State and Federal, states that a person is supposed to know what he has signed and he is bound by it. It is not an excuse to say that you did not understand. This is the problem. As I have mentioned, this is a clear indication of what can happen.

How many other migrants have been the victims of this sort of injustice, because our law is based on the statute of frauds which says that any dealing in property has to be in writing and has to be signed. If it is a hire purchase transaction it has to be in writing and signed. In the main these migrant people are looking at the goods which they are anxious to buy and they would not understand the terms that are used. Let us think of the injustices which this could create and of the difficulty which must arise for us as an Australian nation. These people could return to their countrymen and tell them what has happened and their countrymen in turn could tell other people: ‘There are a lot of problems down in Australia. You want to be careful if you sign any document because people can cheat you.’ This problem applies in the main to Asian migrants.

While our immigration programme has had very good intentions, because of the interpretation placed on it people in other countries say that we are ‘anti them’. This is quite crazy. The real intentions of our programme have not been adequately explained or perhaps people do not understand the programme because English is not their forte. So let us have a look at the whole problem and place emphasis on migrant education. Certainly new settlers who can speak English need help as well, but they do not need basic assistance in the first 3 months of their stay in Australia in order to help them to understand the English language. They know it and they can overcome these difficulties. But there are many new settlers who cannot speak English.

If we are dealing with, say, 40,000 people and we allocate a paltry sum of $250,000 to help teach them the English language, not many of them will get an opportunity to learn English. So they will be penalised. We are now dealing with what is to happen in the next 18 months, so there is every reason why we should accept the amendment moved by the honourable member for Grayndler. If we do we will provide opportunities for these people to learn English. This proposition should not be put on the basis: ‘We have a sum of money and we will allocate that. We know it is nowhere near what is necessary, but that is the best we can do because the defects are too great.’

If we look at the number of departures of migrants returning (o their countries of origin we find that in 1970 the figure was as high as 35,000 or 36,000. That may be the normal rate of departure, but we would find that one-half of those departures were people under the age of 20 years. It could well be that a parent has said: T am dissatisfied. I do not understand the language, and I have had no opportunity to learn it. My child al school has not gol on at all or is not making any progress because he or she is unhappy or because he or she cannot understand the teacher. Why should we not go back to our country of origin where we are able to understand the language? Despite the fact that we do not want to go gack, we know that we will be accepted there. We understand the education system and our children at least will have the same opportunity as any other child and nol be put in a secondary position where there is no opportunity. The people in our new country have accepted us as human beings, but they have penalised us on the basis that we are not equal. We cannot compete with them, whether it be at school or in the commercial world.’ These factors ought to be considered.

So why should not an analysis be made of how many people each year - whether they be from Yugoslavia, Turkey, Greece or some other country - need English instruction? These migrants are coming out by plane so there is no opportunity to instruct them in the English language before they arrive here. Perhaps they immediately want to go to work when they arrive here. They need evening instruction at the hostel. This can be arranged. Let us tackle this problem. As I have already said, we could get a result within 8 weeks, and you could not get anything faster than that. These migrants would be delighted if this were done, and I would say that in the main they would continue to live in Australia and we would reduce the number of departures. We would ensure that the migrant child at school was not a dropout and had an opportunity to compete with other children. His parents would feel that they were accepted and they could obtain better jobs because of the training they had received in their country of origin. These are vital factors.

We should notlook at this matter on the basis of sheer economics. We should look at it on the basis of the need of the migrants who arrive here. If this had been done in the past our immigration programme would have been much more successful and many more migrants would have stayed in Australia. If this programme were implemented on the basis of need, more money would be required and also there would be a need for more buildings, as has been mentioned by my colleague the honourable member for Grayndler. Accordingly, while I support the proposition in the Bill I think that much more money should be allocated to the programme on the basis of need, as is indicated in the Opposition’s amendment.

Mr DOBIE:
Cook

– It was not my intention to get up and take part in this debate, but so many remarkable things have come from the other side of the House that I felt that I had to answer one or two of them. I am pleased to see that the honourable member for Wills (Mr Bryant) has now re-entered the House. I was amazed to find that the honourable member for Burke (Mr Keith Johnson) said that a migrant who does not speak English is not seriously disadvantaged. I would suggest to him that he might care to have a closer look at the problem. Let him try to get a job outside Melbourne or Sydney, for example, if he does not speak English.

Mr Keith Johnson:
BURKE, VICTORIA · ALP

– Let him try to get a job if he does speak English.

Mr DOBIE:

– Let him try. too, but he is a trade union official so he would have no trouble. But lack of English is a basic disadvantage to migrants coming into this country when they are looking for jobs. I find it difficult to believe that any honourable member, including the honourable member for Wills or the honourable member for Sturt (Mr Foster) who is calling out on my right hand side, could say that lack of English can prove to be of no disadvantage when one is looking for a job. However, it is not that about which I wish to speak. I believe that the honourable member for Prospect (Dr Klugman) gave one of the finest speeches we have heard on this subject when he spoke on the need for humanity when looking at the problem of migration. While not having suffered from the problem of lack of English, being a migrant myself I must say that the problem for people coming here is to be treated as a matter of people and not just of statistics. I should like to commend the honourable member for Prospect for saying that. But as I said.I rose to say only a couple of things. One was to comment upon the fact that I do not quite agree with the honourable member for Kingsford-Smith (Mr Lionel Bowen) who referred to the use of machines for teaching though, of course, this is a very important aspect of teaching English.

I think that over the past 20 years a great strain has been placed on teachers in our State schools because children do absorb and children do learn English very quickly. But one of the great strains we have had has been with the teachers. Certainly in New South Wales teachers have had a great strain placed on them in trying to prepare children for their school lives. At this stageI should like to pay a tribute to the Sutherland District Parents and Citizens Association and the Sutherland Teachers Federation with whom I do not always see eye to eye.

Mr Daly:

– Whose electorate are they in?

Mr DOBIE:

– As a matter of fact they are not in my electorate. I congratulate them on their continuing interest in this basic problem as it affects not so much the children but the teaching fraternity in New

South Wales. I am certain that that fraternity will welcome this Bill and the Act when it is enacted without amendment. Without the continued pressure of those bodies I doubt whether this Bill would have been introduced. Whereas I do not support the amendment, I must agree with some of the sentiments in it. It is a shame that we did not have this legislation before the Parliament 10 or 20 years ago

Mr GARRICK:
Batman

– I support the amendment moved by the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) which reads:

That whilst not refusing to give the Bill a second reading this House condemns the Government for the delay in providing a comprehensive programme of migrant education, adequate finance, facilities and capital equipment including buildings.

The programme designed to teach migrants to speak English has failed dismally. There is no doubt of that, for in his pamphlet, Education for Adult Migrants’, Professor W. F. Connel says that it appears that the language programme is steadily slipping backwards. He went on to say that a recent survey conducted by the Department of Immigration indicates that about one-third of foreign born migrants cannot speak English, and the Department’s classes cater for only a small proportion of these. It appears that many past arrivals have remained largely ignorant of the English language and that, so far as catching up with this backlog of students is concerned, present classes are not matching the numbers of present arrivals. The classes seem, in fact, to be falling short of current arrivals. The survey, of which Professor Connell speaks, was conducted as recently as 1969.

From October 1968 to October 1969 there were 19,915 students enrolled in evening classes for migrants in New South Wales. I think we must all agree that this enrolment of nearly 20,000 migrants in English language classes in 1 year in 1 State is very encouraging in that it indicates that our new arrivals are willing to learn the English language if given the opportunity. But no fewer than 17,959 of these ambitious and hopeful enrolees abandoned their courses, many of them after only 1 or 2 lessons. We should ask ourselves why so many gave up their studies in a tongue which would improve their job opportunities and enhance their integration into the Australian community. Did they abandon the classes because they considered English to be of no advantage? Did they abandon the classes because of the methods of teaching, or were their reasons, as some non-migrants have said, economic?

It is my opinion that if the migrant language training programmes failure - a programme that has been in operation for many years - can be attributed to any single cause, it is the exclusive use of the situation method of language instruction. I am sure that the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) does not agree with me on this matter, for obviously if he did the Bill would be substantially different. For example, the Federal Department of Education and Science, which is administering Commonwealth grants for the Department of Immigration, is insisting that teaching follow the situational method which is taught to adult migrants in its classes for children. While it may not be disturbing that the situation method should be used to instruct adults who are already well educated before coming here, that the Department should think highly enough of this method to thrust it on migrants of little education is frightening. My misgivings about the exclusive use of the situation method of instruction of adult migrants arise because there are 2 general groups of migrants for whom this Bill does not make reasonable provision. Firstly, there are the young migrants, just out of school, not well educated and thrust immediately on their arrival here into the grinding and mindshackling mills of unskilled employment; and, secondly, there are the older migrants, also not well educated but long out of school and confined to the home and thereby effectively isolated from the community in which they will live out their lives and isolated from the community which is supposed to give meaning to their lives.

These 2 groups have 1 thing in common - a lack of education. Some people might say that they have 2 things in common - a lack of education and a lack of opportunity. But since I have hopes that this latter unfortunate circumstance will soon be remedied I will not carp on whether they have 1 or 2 things in common. In lacking education they suffer a lack of knowledge and understanding of their own cultural heritage and in the long run this particular lack is more unfortunate for them than their inability to speak our tongue, for implicit in a lack of understanding of their own culture is a lack of facility in their own tongue, and this is disastrous, because, as everybody knows, language is more than words. But despite this, the Department is insisting that instruction, not only for adolescents and older migrants, including those who will hardly be involved in the. wider spheres of community life because their activities are confined to the home, but also for children should be by the situation method, as though the study of language or the proper use of words can be divorced from the study of the history and literature which produced those words.

Does a parrot, which not only can utter - or is it ‘screech’ - words but also can demonstrate a use of phrases understand the quality of the words it uses? Does the bird, or the person of limited education who is taught words by the situation method, grasp the differences of meaning that depend upon particular contexts? Consider, for example, the difference between a bay of the sea, a bay mare, the bay of a hound, a stag at bay, or a bay leaf. It may be said that this is a trivial example, but to get proper results contexts must be considered, not single words, as does the situation method of instruction. Situations and not translations are used to teach the meaning of new structures. The use made of any situation at any one time is limited to the use or teaching of one grammatical form or group sentence patterns. No attempt is made to teach other structures which also could arise from the particular situations. Language cannot be separated from culture. Words are meaningless without an accompanying concept. For instance, in a lesson relating to pets a teacher found that pets were outside the reference of some migrant students. They could not imagine a pet, nor could they imagine feeding an animal which did not provide its owners with food, shelter or protection.

It is clear that migrants cannot be fitted into, for whatever purposes, an homogeneous group. Rather do migrants comprise a number of sub-groups extensively diverse in terms of age, innate ability, achievement and desire for learning the English language. These facts are commonplace. Is it not then too much to expect that a single method of language instruction could possibly satisfy the various and diverse needs of our new arrivals? Should we not therefore adopt teaching programmes designed to cater for the specific needs of the major sub-groups which have entered our community? Such programmes might not only depart from the situational method of language instruction but also would demand the use of bi-lingual teachers, for there is no doubt that students would be more at home with teachers who spoke their own language and who could understand their fears and misgivings in a new environment. Such teachers would cushion both the language and cultural transition through which every migrant painfully, and with trepidation, inevitably passes.

It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the Government has no real interest in spreading the use of English among migrants who need English instruction hut that the Government is merely interested in turning out human capital, that is, people who will serve the economic machine. Somewhere in his writings Galbraith tells us that despite the vanity of educators it is not they but industry that shapes the lines of development of an education system. As Professor Daniel Bell of Columbia University points out:

The raising of human capital is a much more complex process than the raising of financial capital. It is the limits to human capital rather than to financial capital which have become the fundamental element limiting the growth of society.

The imperatives of industry demand that unskilled and semi-skilled process workers have some knowledge of English, but nothing more than a rudimentary knowledge - just enough to enable people from a variety of countries to bid each other good morning’ on the factory floora nd thus give the impression that on the factory floor unity in diversity is to be found. We now know that few southern Europeans need to learn English in order to establish themselves. A survey in Victoria showed that southern Europeans communicate almost entirely in their own language. According to the sample, over 75 per cent worked with fellow nationals, 66 per cent did not. need English for their work, more than 80 per cent had no social contact outside their national group, about 90 per cent lived with relatives, 94 per cent used their native tongue exclusively at home and most patronised shops where their own language was spoken.

The reasons for abandonment of English instruction courses by these groups are important when viewed in the context of the proposal to expand and upgrade the services provided by these classes. The most common reason for abandoning the course was dissatisfaction with the classes, particularly with the mixing together of advanced and less advanced students. Economic considerations were also important, such as working overtime, shift work and having two jobs which conflict with the set times of the courses. Language is a too! of some potency and the chief vehicle of centuries of culture. Any programme for the instruction of migrants in the English language should begin by instructing the foreign speaking migrant in his own language. The migrant should be instructed to a stage of fluency and facility in his native tongue, and at the same time he should be instructed in his own history and literature.

Let us return again to Professor W. F. Connell. Speaking of social understanding he says:

I he present adult migrant education programme concentrates on language teaching. Incidentally, and on occasions, deliberately, it introduces materIs I lo acquaint the student with various aspects of the Australian way of life.

Language teaming is obviously of great importance in an integration programme, but it is not necessarily the central feature of it. Tan, in analysing the assimilation process, has interestingly pointed out that ‘the popular belief is not correct that knowledge of English is a prerequisite for the satisfaction and identification of non-British immigrants. Much more frequently it is the satisfaction and identification of the immigrant that leads to any substantial progress in English.

It is important to realise that the disadvantaged migrant family in Australia has a distrust of schools and a lack of knowledge about the aims and methods of teaching employed by teachers at schools which their children attend. Unless this ignorance and hostility is dispelled, the chances of the schools achieving good results with migrant children will be limited. These parents are unable to join school committees, mainly because of their own lack of English, and meeting procedures are too difficult with this extra disadvantage. There is an urgent need for ‘contact’ social workers to provide links between migrant families and schools. ‘Contact’ schemes have worked well in Canada and the United States of America. The cost of 100 contact social workers if employed by the Department of Education and Science would be approximately $500,000 annually.

If an expanded programme for English instruction for larger numbers of migrants is to be put into operation, a large increase in expenditure will be necessary, An appropriation of $990,000 was made for the education of migrants in the 1969-70 financial year. This figure has proved totally inadequate, and an additional expenditure above this figure of $1m would need to be considered for an effective education programme. Professor Connell strongly recommended the introduction of day classes for mothers, the expansion of pre-embarkation and on-ship courses and semi-intensive part time courses for all migrants wishing to help themselves integrate into their new country. Already professional men receive allowances while undertaking courses. It is hard to imagine a more elitist approach than this. The average migrant who will be placed at a disadvantage, as will his children, receives no such special assistance. Australia should not be party to discriminatory treatment in favour of those who have already received a better education in their home country.

In the policy speech of the Prime Minister (Mr Gorton) delivered in October a promise of $4m was made for the removal of difficulties of migrant children. This was to be the total grant spread over 3 years and took no account of the educational assistance required by adult migrants. Any worthwhile programme qf migrant education would cost in the vicinity of $4m annually. Clause 4 (1.) provides

The courses of instruction to which this section relates are -

  1. courses in the English language: and
  2. courses designed to impart an understanding of the rights and duties of an Australian citizen and of the way of living of the Australian people.

Therefore the provisions of this Bill do not go far enough, even if we concede that paragraph (b) has some merit. So let us ensure thai our migrants have a proper understanding of their own language, or their own culture, and of our tongue, by the situation method if you like, but let us instruct them in all three concurrently.

In addition to the subjects to be taught, let us end the practice of gathering together for language instruction people of various nationalities. While we talk much of integration, it seems to me that in practice we pursue assimilation. Whether we do this intentionally because we prefer assimilation to integration, or whether the determining factor is blind economic necessity, I have not yet determined, but the essential need of any integration programme is to keep together people who have an affinity of race or nationality, in order that they might strengthen each other during the period of integration, during that period of their lives in which they suffer greatly the inevitable tensions produced by cultural conflict and the material poverty which Professor Henderson tells us so many southern European migrants suffer. 1 am certain that such a practice alone would do much to reduce the numbers of students who abandon language instruction classes. Everyone knows the great binding power of small groups. Even S; Paul had a word to say about this. In Romans, chapter 1, verses 1 1 and 12, he said:

For i long to see yon . . . that 1 may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith of both you and me.

In conclusion, if we are to make provision in this Bill for the 2 groups of people to whom I have referred, namely the poorly educated adolescent and the poorly educated new arrival who is confined to the smaller community of the home, we must not only teach them our tongue but also we must relate it to their own language, their own culture and in classes of their own people and, more importantly, their teachers must speak and understand the language of the students.

Mr SCHOLES:
Corio

– The matter before the House is one on which I think members on both sides of the House have expressed concern over a considerable period of time; it is one which needs total and comprehensive treatment. There are provisions in the Bill before us which were presented to this House last year and which, had the Bill been proceeded with at that time, would have become law on the first day of July 1970. It is significant in the present circumstances that the proposed amendment which has been circulated to honourable members does not specify a date of application but in fact specifies the day on- which the Bill shall receive royal assent. I think that this is significant in view of the present economic policies which the Government is pursuing in order to cut down on expenditure.

Mr Lynch:

– You have missed the total point of the exercise. The fact is that the expenditure is in no way impaired because the Bill is now before the House.

Mr SCHOLES:

– The facts are that no specific date for the operation of the Bill is slated in the amendment. I was making the point - and I still make the point - that if the Bill is not passed or is not given royal assent for some considerable time any expense incurred under the Bill must be without the proper authority.

Mt Lynch - If you read the second reading speech you will find that we do not need the Bill to implement the programme. I repeat that you have missed the whole point.

Mr SCHOLES:

– The Minister for Immigration can explain this in the committee stage.

Mr Lynch:

– I suggest that you read ‘he second rending speech.

Mr SCHOLES:

– I have read the second reading speech. I want to make one or two points and 1 want them to be quite clear. The Bill provides for expenditure on migrant education in both State and private schools. Also, it provides for adult education. However, the second reading speech does not indicate that the facilities for the leaching of children should also be used wherever practicable for the teaching of adults. This would seem to be a fairly reason-able usage of materials provided for a special purpose. The Bill also makes no mention that 1 can find - the Minister may be able to correct this - of the provision of additional facilities in State schools to provide this teaching capacity. I know of no school in my electorate, which has a high density of migrants, where additional classroom facilities exist for the provision of a special English class for migrants. It may be that by cramming children into other rooms, by using rooms for a purpose for which they were not intended, or by using school library facilities, accommodation can be made available. But, in the definitions contained in the Bill, capital equipment specifically excludes buildings.

In the most densely migrant populated section of my electorate, Bell Park, a State technical school has existed for the last 4 years and, at this stage, it has no permanent structure whatsoever. This is an area where the children are more in need of this type of instruction and this type of basic English training than in other areas where better facilities are provided. The State education departments have been directed already to cut down their programmes for the next financial year. They have been told already that they should cut down on teacher training. If. in 4 years, an education department cannot construct even one permanent technical school building in an area of great need. I hardly think that it is likely to be able to provide classroom facilities to give effect to the provisions of this Bill.

A number of Bills which have been passed by this Parliament in recent years depend on the co-operation of and the expenditure of money by Slate governments to operate successfully. Victoria, which has a Government of the same political complexion as the Federal Government, has refused to co-operate with respect to many of these Bills because it claims, rightly or wrongly, that it cannot afford the expenditure required to implement the proposals contained in those Bills. Thus, any benefit which may exist in the Bills just does not apply. The success or Otherwise of this Bill will depend on the level to which State education departments are prepared and are able to co-operate. 1 am quite sure that the departments will wish to co-operate and will do everything possible to enable the Bill to succeed. T am not sure whether the State treasuries will do likewise. Their priorities may or may not be different. Rightly or wrongly the State governments feel that a far greater expenditure should have been forthcoming from the Commonwealth Government over an extended period on education, housing and other social activites connected with the establishment of migrants here.

Now, the migrant child of school age quite obviously is at a very distinct disadvantage on arrival in Australia and any new facilities that will give that child a better chance to proceed at a normal rate in the early periods of its education after arrival here will be welcome. The migrant child of secondary school age has an almost impossible task because that child lacks the cultural and historical background to cope with our education system. As that child has not passed through our primary school system he or she is in a very serious situation. These children need help. They need help quickly.

J wish to deal now with another area covered in the Bill, adult migrant education. It is obvious to any member who has a large migrant population in his electorate that the female adult is very slow normally to learn the language. The cause for this largely is that whilst the husband goes to work and is forced to learn the language, the wife is able to converse with those around her in the language rf the country of her birth. Unless there are very young children who in many cases do not learn their native tongue, the need for high pressure involvement to learn a new language is not nearly as urgent for the female as it is for the male who must go to work and therefore has to have some smattering of English. Migrants mainly find unskilled jobs and if they are prepared to work under conditions which most trade unions would not accept they can earn high incomes. But they are seriously disadvantaged.

The honourable member for Boothby (Mr McLeay) said that he was disappointed with an immigration agreement that we had wilh Yugoslavia because of the small number of skilled people who were coming to Australia from that country. He said that, under that agreement, Australia was promised higher numbers of skilled people. My understanding is that the authorities in Yugoslavia also are rather upset about our failure to recognise the trade qualifications of migrants. They claim that they can send to Germany people whose trade qualifications will be recognised in that country and that those people will be able to work there at their trades. Germany is far closer to their homeland than Australia. Yet, the skills of Yugoslavs sent to Australia are not recognised and migrants cannot practise their trades here. They leave their homeland as tradesmen and arrive in Australia as unskilled workers. This is not something which can be altered by the provisions of this Bill, but I think that it is something which should be clarified. Countries will not send skilled people to Australia or advise them to come to Australia if, on arrival in Australia, they are classified as unskilled. I do not believe that any country can be expected to do this especially if an alternative is available, and apparently it is available in Western Europe.

I wish to deal with one or two other aspects of the Bill which concern me. 1 hope that the Minister, if he has not done so already, will clarify these points. 1 mentioned one a moment ago. This is the use of school buildings. The Bill provides that equipment, etc., will be provided in State or independent schools as the Department sees necessary. The Bill provides also - apparently separately - for adult education. With respect to laboratory type equipment especially, I believe that this equipment should be supplied to independent or state schools on the basis that it will be made available for use in adult education courses outside normal school hours. This would seem to be a reasonably economic use of a facility. I would think that in most of the larger towns outside the metropolitan area high schools or primary schools - in the case of adults most likely it would be high schools - would be as central and as useful as anywhere else in a community as places at which to provide adult education courses. 1 hope that we will not see taking place in the expenditure of this money a duplication of facilities which may or may not help but which would be less likely to help.

In some areas, notably in the inner city suburbs and in some specific areas of the larger provincial cities, there are very heavy concentrations of migrants. In these areas normally there are also very heavy concentrations of young children, ft would be of great help if pre-school children could be given the facilities to provide them with basic teaching in English to bring them at least up to the level of Australian children in their community. In the inner metropolitan areas where high rise flats and such like are developing, I hope that the educational standard of migrant children will be raised to a level where opportunities to obtain Commonwealth scholarships, etc., later in their education will be available.

A child which gets to primary school without a basic knowledge of English and without a fairly good understanding ot our culture does not obtain a Commonwealth scholarship later in life. That is one of the statistical facts which can be seen by examining to whom and where Commonwealth scholarships are granted. These are 2 matters that I raise. It could be very effective at the pre-school level if English training of a primary nature could be given to children, f well remember the case of a young German child who lived near us. His grandmother came to Australia. He spoke about 4 words of German and about 3 words of English in each sentence. Until he went to kindergarten where practically all children spoke English, his English language, to say the least, was somewhat mixed up. But he will go to school because his brothers have gone to ? choo I and he will progress in the normal fashion through our schools. In areas where there are large concentrations of migrants - there are areas where 70 per cent, 80 per cent and up to 90 per cent of the population are migrants - the ability to mix or the value of mixing with children who talk English does not exist, and therefore the migrant children are severely handicapped when they begin school. If they arrive at the preparatory stage of schooling without a background knowledge of English, they do not catch up in later life. There is one other matter in the Bill which I have not heard anyone mention, and that is citizenship training. I am not exactly sure what is meant by this phraseology.

Mr Bryant:

– They learn to vote Labor.

Mr SCHOLES:

– I do not know .so much. I have been at functions where they have been told to vote the other way. Those functions were mainly paid for by other political parties, and I suppose it was their right to say that. But the point is that citizenship is a very controversial subject. Migrants arriving in Australia will not get a vote for 5 years after their arrival unless they are English migrants, who usually can speak English.

Mr Cohen:

– That is the understatement of the week.

Mr SCHOLES:

– We can go to some parts of the British Isles - I will not specify which parts - and when we start talking to the population we are not sure whether we can talk English or whether they can talk English, but certainly we do not talk the same language. There is provision in the Bill for citizenship training. Migrants other than British migrants will not have a vote in Australia for 5 years after their arrival. So 1 would hope that citizenship training deals largely with conditions which exist in Australia. The type of social struct rues and prejudices which exist in Australia should be part of the programme in which migrants are given instruction.

I find, as I think most honourable members would, that migrants, especially newly arrived migrants, have very exaggerated ideas of what they can expect from our social welfare structure. They do not appreciate fully the type of health scheme we have. Many of them come here expecting the type of health scheme they had in their own countries. These are matters on which I think migrants should receive some pre-education or preinstruction. I do not envisage a booklet which is written in English or their own language and which most likely is couched in terms that they cannot understand anyway. Some pre-instruction in these areas would be of great benefit to the migrant and would help to make him happy on arrival in Australia and make him want to stay. I am of the opinion that most migrants who want to leave Australia decide before they even arrive here or in their first few weeks in Australia that they are not going to stay. Tt is in these areas that I think there is great scope for improvement in our public relations with migrants coming to Australia.

The Minister may correct me if I am wrong, birt my understanding is that persons who have left Australia and returned to their own country cannot be used on ships as instructors for migrants unless they have been out of Australia for at least 2 years.

Mr Lynch:

– That is not correct.

Mr SCHOLES:

– 1 have letters to that effect, but it does not matter. I think that the Department wherever possible should avail itself of qualified people who have returned to their homeland and who are coming back to Australia and should use their knowledge of the country for the instruction of other migrants. For instance. English migrants especially who are returning to Australia are better able to explain the benefits that migrants wilt receive in Australia or what goes on in Australia as compared with the position in their own countries. They have a better knowledge of the circumstances from which a migrant comes than do even qualified Australians. These are only minor things but I think they are important to migrants. My experience, as 1 said before, is that most disillusioned migrants are disillusioned before they get here. The less time there is between a person leaving Australia and being used as an instructor the more comprehensive and contemporary will be the advice that he gives. Anyone who left Australia more than 2 years ago and who is coming back today would obviously be giving wrong advice because the situation has changed so greatly. He may even think that the Government still has a majority of 42 in the House of Representatives.

The Opposition has moved an amendment which I believe expresses the situation which should exist, and I hope that the House will carry the amendment. But the Bill does go some way towards providing the types of facilities which are and which have been for a number of years needed not only by the migrant population but by many hundreds of thousands of culturally underprivileged Australians, especially those in the centres of our great cities and those who will be crowded into the 1975 slums which are being built with Commonwealth money today.

Mr BRYANT:
Wills

– This is one of the few occasions on which we are able to have a fairly close debate upon the migration system. We face the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) across the House. He. of course, has one of Australia’s largest social adventures on his hands. I am one of those who spend a lot of their time trying to prevent him deporting people. I suppose his most abysmal failure is that he did not deport the English cricket team at about 1 1 o’clock this morning. On the other hand, he has at his disposal a very effective Department. believe that the general approach we have made to immigration has been fairly effective but that our most miserable failure has been in the way we have approached particularly :he children who have arrived here as a result of the migration scheme.

How tough can life be for a person who arrives here from Greece, Turkey, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Yugoslavia or any part of southern Europe? They are perhaps a little more disadvantaged than those from northern Europe. When they arrive here the parents will almost certainly be employed in occupations in which salaries and wages are at a low level. Secondly, they will probably start their life here in a very crowded suburban street where life will be not tough but certainly not gentle and not very pleasant. When the children turn up at the school they will find that all the odds are against their learning English. In school they will not be associating with people who speak very good English. In the school grounds of many of the inner suburban areas it is not English that one hears; it is strine of the roughest sort. So the child starts miles behind. I believe that the tone of our amendment is correct in that it deplores the fact that it has taken all these years for the Government to do something about migration education.

I want to challenge for a moment the remarks that the honourable member for Cook (Mr Dobie) made in reply to my colleague, the honourable member for Burke (Mr Keith Johnson). The honourable member for Burke remarked that it was not a serious disadvantage to many adults not to be able to speak English. 1 believe that that is true. The honourable member for Cook took him to task about that. It is possible to live in Brunswick or Coburg and never use a word of English. All the facilities there are available to a migrant. His neighbours probably speak the same language as himself. At his work place he can get along with his native language, as he can in the shops. Of course, this is a serious disadvantage to those who want to learn English. This is a problem of some magnitude. 1 believe the approach to it here this afternoon by the Minister and by the Department is still very perfunctory indeed.

While I am on my feet I want to pay a tribute to the Australian community. 1 believe it is a remarkable social achievement that so many hundreds of thousands of people from other countries have been able to move into our community in the way they have without creating great social tensions. I represent one of the most heavily concentrated areas of new Australians or migrants, call them what we will. I sense that there is very little social tension. The Australian community has adopted an attitude of great maturity and has received the migrants to its bosom in a very hospitable way, and not often enough does the community get this tribute paid to it.

I want to concentrate on the question of school children and what should be done in the schools and for the schools. This problem is contemporaneous with the migration system. It has existed since the inception of the migration scheme. From the day the first ship arrived with perhaps 1,200 or 1,500 migrants on it, of which perhaps 300 or 400 were of school age, the problem started to expand, and it has been aggrevated by every shipload and every aeroplane load that has arrived since. Now 22 or 23 years after the beginning of this scheme we are taking up some of the challenge although. I believe, still in a very perfunctory way. There can be no denying that immigration is an absolute Commonwealth responsibility. It is the responsibility of nobody else, lt is not good enough for the Minister to pour literally tens of thousands of migrants into Victoria, let them try to survive under the tender mercies of the Bolte Government and then say that it is a State matter to supply education and hospitals and to build the roads. The Commonwealth ought to have long since accepted a more direct responsibility, particularly as far as education is concerned.

I want to outline the position in my own electorate. As honourable members may be aware, I represent the suburb’! of Brunswick and Coburg in Melbourne. They are both highly concentrated. They are not slum areas in the strict sense but they are very densely populated. For instance, Brunswick has a population of 52.000 people in about 2,600 acres or about 4 square miles. According to the 1966 census - the figure has increased a good deal since then - in Brunswick there were 10.105 people who were born in Italy and 6,840 people who were born in Greece. That is a total of 16,945 people alone in my electorate who were born in Italy and Greece. As far as I can tell from a run through the 1966 census this is the highest concentration of Italians and Greeks in Australia. This means that of all the people in Australia who were born in ItalY one in 15 lives in my electorate, of all the people born in Greece one in 22 lives in my electorate and of those born in Malta, one in 17 lives in my electorate. So to those two communities this is a real social problem and one for which 1 will place before the House this afternoon a plea for special action. There are a few other similar suburbs in Melbourne of which perhaps Prahran, Richmond and Northcote may well be some, but Brunswick is the one that is the most hard pressed as far as education is concerned.

Honourable members ought to examine this question and really think of the problems when one in 5 of the community in Brunswick 4 or 5 years ago - it is more now - were born in Italy. Many of them are still unable to speak English. They all have increasing families although in fact they are probably better off even if they are at the Australian poverty line than they were in Italy. 1 believe that these 3 or 4 suburbs in Melbourne, of which I think Brunswick, ought to be the principal beneficiary - Coburg is another and there are perhaps 2 or 3 in Sydney - ought to have some special Commonwealth effort spent on them in the form of capital works, but I will come to that in a moment. Just to ensure that it would be on the record that we understand the magnitude of the problem as far as the schools themselves are concerned I went round the schools and go! from them the most recent statistics. I do not happen to have them all here, nor would it be appropriate to place them on record if I did.

Let us take the Princess Hill primary school as an example. One of the interesting facts is that generally speaking the situation is a little less educationally disastrous in the primary schools than it is in the secondary schools. If a boy or girl aged 12, 13 or 14 years turns up in the school and cannot speak a word of English there arc 2 problems. In the secondary school or technical school the position is hopeless. If they turn up in the primary school at grades 1, 2 or 3 the solution seems to come but pretty slowly. They never really catch up unless they are especially bright but the position is not quite as hopeless. Figures given to me last year for the Princess Hill primary school, for instance, showed that 15 children in grade 6 needed remedial English lessons, 10 in grade 5, 22 in grade 4, 14 in grade 3 and 5 in grade 2. It just happens that I have these figures with me. Some other schools are much more hard pressed but in this school with 66 children in need of remedial English lessons there is a need for perhaps 3 special teachers. 1 think they have one coming at some time in the near future. But Princes Hill is not the most hard pressed in that regard.

Four years ago ray colleague the State member for Brunswick West, Mr Campbell Turnbull, who has been pretty assiduous about these matters, had statistics prepared for the schools in the area. 1 will just name one, the Slate school at No. 1213 Brunswick. These are big schools with between 400 and 900 students. Seventy-eight per cent of the pupils in grade 1A were new Australian children, 79 per cent in grade IB, 90 per cent in grade IC, 76 per cent in grade ID, 70 per cent in grade IE, 75 per cent in grade IF, 85 per cent in grade 1G and so on down to 58 per cent in the special rural school which is conducted for the purposes of training. Honourable members should try to imagine the situation of the teacher faced with these classes, lt would be bad enough if they were all people who spoke the same language, but that is not the case. I visited Moreland primary school last year just to see how they were going. The figures there are very similar. 1 walked in one morning as school was starting and said to the Headmaster: ‘Well, they have got a migrant education Bill on the stocks at our place. What is your position?’ He said: ‘You are one of the leaders of the nation. Solve this for me.’ He handed me 3 notes he had received that morning, one in Turkish, one in Greek and one in Italian.

These are insuperable problems when the parents turn up and cannot speak English. When the teacher faces the class he might even have been taught French at some time - irrelevant as it might be in the Australian education system - but how does he handle the Turks, the Greeks and the Albanians? At that time that school had 16 different language groups as far as we could determine. Therefore we must do something much more dramatic than what is proposed here, lt is a step in the right direction but it is a very small step indeed. I believe that in Brunswick, which, as I said, is only 4 square miles in area or the size of a decent farm where some honourable members come from, in Coburg and probably in Richmond and Northcote - I do not know the geography of Sydney so well - the only solution to the problem seems to be to take a special building and make it a school in which for perhaps 6 months - I am not sure of the time element - one concentrates on getting the children integrated into the English language. Some people will say: You are going to segregate them.’ This, of course, is not the issue. They are no more segregated than they would be in the school grounds. Two or 3 Turks, say, who arrive at one of the primary schools and cannot speak a word of any language that anybody else can speak can be just as lonely as if they were segregated somewhere on their own.

I do not believe there is any solution to this other than a capital works programme by the Commonwealth. That is why it is in our amendment. The States will not do it so we must do it. I am putting this on the record and 1 hope that the Minister for Immigration, Treasury officials and all the other people concerned take notice of it.I know it is probably not the Minister’s fault. In some ways he appears to be humane, and he has even had a progressive idea now and again. The Commonwealth must accept that kind of responsibility in these half dozen Melbourne communities of which I think Brunswick is pre-eminent. None of the people of course, would have to travel more than a mile or two to the school. That is the first element. The second question is. of course, that of teachers. We will not get anywhere with the approach that we have taken so far as is shown by the very meagre number of teachers who have turned up.

When [ raised this matter last week with all the appropriate Ministers, both State and Federal, the Victorian Minister for Education, Mr Thompson, let me have some figures which show that Brunswick primary school will have 2, Brunswick East1, Brunswick North 3, Brunswick South 2, Brunswick South West 1, and Brunswick West 1. In the high schools Brunswick will have 2, Brunswick girls 1 and Princess Hill 1. Let us consider for a moment the Brunswick girls school. I know for a fact that of the 500 or so girls at the school about 300 really need special English teaching. Apart from any other consideration it is a very deprived area educationally, anyhow. The school grounds are miserable, the buildings outdated, antiquated and obsolescent and the equipment is poor. This also means that as the community is poor in comparison with the rest of Victoria -I presume this happens in other States - there are no resources available from parent support. One of the results of the migration scheme to many of the schools in this area has been that where 15 or 20 years ago there was a fairly vigorous parent body, although not as vigorous as it ought to be and as it is, say, in Canberra or somewhere else because these people are living at the lowest level of wages and salaries, organisations like mothers’ clubs, as we call them in Victoria, and school committees get no parent support at all. Moreland primary school, which one might say was a prosperous looking school 10 or 12 years ago, has become a completely deprived school because there is no parent support to keep up the supply of extras that are needed. I believe that these are special cases and that the Commonwealth must step into the area of migrant education in this way. ThereforeI am putting it on record that until we approach the problem in this way we will not get anywhere. The Minister spoke about special equipment such as mini language laboratories. If we have the money to pour into other areas there should be money for this sort of equipment.

Sirring suspended from 6 to 8 p.m.

Mr BRYANT:

- Mr Speaker, earlierI was discussing the Immigration (Education) Bill and the Opposition’s proposal that the Government should have made provision for capital works. I was putting the case that at least in my electorate, irrespective of what is done or how much money is made available, unless some new buildings and capital facilities are provided the Government’s intention would be aborted. Brunswick and Coburg, 2 centres in my electorate, have one of the greatest concentrations of migrants in Australia. The 1966 census shows that more than 10,000 Italians and nearly 5,000 Greeks lived in Brunswick and that about 7,000 Italians and 2,000

Greeks lived in Coburg. Such a concentration of people is of significant social importance. The community which has taken these people into its schools and made available all the other facilities is entitled to the kind of support which we urge should be given.

The children of migrant families are entitled to this consideration. In my view there is no other way in which we can approach this problem particularly in areas such as those I have mentioned. The Brunswick Girls School is a typical example of the present situation. As I pointed out no matter how many teachers are supplied, there is nothing they can do with the equipment that may be provided because of inadequate accommodation. The inadequacy of the buildings generally and of the grounds makes it impossible for them to cope. That school needs special equipment, including many language laboratories, console laboratories and it also needs teachers trained in the use of these facilities. It also needs special colour facilities for projection. I believe that the error here is that the Government is still relying too much upon State resources. The State resources are meagre in the extreme.

I approached the Minister of Education in Victoria about this matter to find out what had happened. I visited about half a dozen schools at the beginning of the new school year. Although the Minister said in reply to the honourable member for Corio (Mr Scholes) that despite the fact that this legislation had been hanging fire for 12 months, the machinery had been put into operation. A handful of teachers has already started in the schools but according to the Minister of Education in Victoria as far as that State is concerned the Department has purchased equipment costing about $53,000 to be used exclusively for the teaching of English and that no further finance is at present available but a request has been made to the Commonwealth for a supplementary grant for further purchases. I have no doubt that the Government will accede to that request. On the other hand that State is likely to be one of the victims of the kind of phoney financial situation that has been created at the moment. As I have already said a request has been made to the Commonwealth for additional finance to service the equipment needs of other schools. I believe that the approach to this matter is still too perfunctory altogether.

Several questions have been raised in this debate about the position of the Australian people regarding the kind of migrants that come here. The honourable member for Prospect (Dr Klugman) said that we cannot pose value judgments - that there are strong humane reasons why anybody should be able to come to Australia. I personally do not hold the views held by a lot of people in this House that to allow a reasonable number of people of a different colour of skin into this country would create difficulties. I do not believe that this is the case but it is a subject which has never been debated rationally in this country even though I admit there are strong differences of opinion. I represent an area in which there are large numbers of people, with almost a total lack of affinity with Australians, who have been admitted to the community reasonably successfully. They have to battle at first. This would apply particularly to Turks. They have no affinity with the Australian community except perhaps the fact that they have the same skin colour. I have seen other people who have come into that community who have total affinity except for their skin colour. 1 would like to be given an adequate explanation from all those people who are terribly worried about this matter - I realise that it creates problems in people’s minds - as to exactly why the almost total affinity of a Pakistani engineer makes him more difficult to assimilate than a Turk with a total lack of affinity except for the colour of his skin which is supposed to make him acceptable I believe the community has to be much more mature in its examination of this problem. I do not know what the answers are. I can only hope that we can engender a public debate in which people can discuss it rationally in. the face of the fact that we do live in a multi-racial world.

Mr GRASSBY:
Riverina

– I am pleased to follow the honourable member for Wills (Mr Bryant). I agree with him when he says that we are the victims of a great many racial myths. [ have always found it a source of amusement when I have had to sign an immigration form for entry to the United States of America, for example. I have always been asked whether I am a Caucasian. I never quite understood why I should be related to the Caucasus which as everyone knows is part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. When I have explained to the poor immigration officer who had put the question that I was not really a citizen of the Soviet Union he has said, ‘No, it does not mean that’. I always asked what in fact it did mean and it was always explained to me that it means that I am more or less white. This would depend on how much sunbaking I had done. Let me be quite blunt about this: If this is done on anthropological grounds the poor old United States is a little bit out of date. T have always explained to the immigration officers in great detail - I am happy to be patient with them - that if I am an Aboriginal I can be quite black and I am also a Caucasian anthropologically speaking. When this has happened the immigration officer has looked at me with some horror and has said that apparently Congress had not heard about it. This may be its trouble. It may be some of our trouble too because these are simply movable myths.

To be more specific in relation to the measure before us, this Bill comes down against a background of widespread questioning of our immigration programme. I want to say at the outset that the new provisions for migrant education are long overdue and most welcome. My distinguished colleague the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) has said that the Opposition will not oppose this Bill. Of course we will not. We on this side commend the Bill. What the honourable member for Grayndler has said by way of the amendment is that what the Bill provides should have been done before. I think it is not a bad idea for us to acknowledge that even collectively as the Commonwealth Parliament, and more specifically the Government, we have been guilty of a sin of omission in this regard and therefore I support the amendment.

There is no doubt in my mind that there has been pressure for this kind of action for 20 years. In my own constituency of Riverina in 1 class in I school there has on occasions been only 2 children with what might be called an old Australian background. I mean children who were born in Australia and who have grandparents who were born in Australia. This did not create any great tensions for those 2 Australian children but of course this is not the problem. The problem facing us is that the young people who come here have to face up to great difficulties at this critical time in their young life because of an inability to tackle examinations and instruction in the English language. Let us not confuse this difficulty with any of the general problems of integration. I want to make this distinction and I hope the distinction can be made in this debate this evening because there are 2 separate problems involved.

The honourable member for Boothby (Mr McLeay) made some references with which I will deal in passing a little later but one of the things about which he should be assured is that even in a location such as the one I have described with an overwhelming migrant intake which must have come about to give a minority of 2 Australians in the 1 class, where there is a healthy decentralised community the problems of integration can be overcome. This has been done very successfully in the Mumimbidgee irrigation areas. There we have the heaviest concentration of migrants in any inland areas but we also have the highest percentage of citizenship of any major migrant intake area in the nation. This has been demonstrated by the findings and investigations of the Department of Immigration.

It has been said that the supreme test of integration is marriage. I do not want to defend that proposition. 1 might not even agree with it. But if we accept it as a measure of integration it is interesting to note that I marriage in 3 in the Mumimbidgee Irrigation Area, that central area which I mentioned, is between people of different backgrounds. I think we ought to be quite clear in our minds that when we are talking about the difficulties children have in tackling the language and in preparing themselves for the skills they should have in a modern industrial society we are talking about something a little different from integration. One might think that one follows the other, but there are 2 different approaches to the question. Even with the ramshackle machinery we have had for 20 years to care for the young people who come to this country we have still managed, in a good healthy environment, to be able to obtain the maximum - 1 do not say optimum - degree of integration compared with any area of migrant intake in any country. 1 want to make that point very clear.

At the same time other factors in the education of children should be taken into account. It is impossible in our country in the 1970s to achieve the degree of education which is necessary for progress in our society unless there is the stimulus to learn at home. That statement brings us to the question of the quality of life. We have to do more than just look at the children’s education in the schools. We have to look at where they are. I want to draw attention again to one of the failures of our own programme. The failure is associated with the fact that we are pouring people into overcrowded, overcentralised capital cities which are becoming increasingly polluted both in the atmosphere and in the spirit. The problem is exemplified in south Sydney where half the people in this most important area have originated from 3 areas 10,000 miles from here. The other half of the population is made up of deserted wives living in high rise dwellings, service wives without their husbands and refugee Aboriginals from the depressed countryside. It is into this incredibly fragmented society that we are putting young migrant children. It is an impossible situation for their learning and their settlement and yet that is where they are. I pay a tribute to the local authorities which struggle valiantly to do their best. The schools with their inadequate structures are unable to cater for the large numbers of young people that come in from outside. They struggle valiantly. Everyone does his best. But there is an inbuilt difficulty in such localities as that. This applies to every major city. It applies to all of the suburbs, which are overtaxed and overcrowded. So the fundamental problem is not going to be solved even by this welcome measure. The fundamental problem is that we are putting migrants and Australians into situations fraught with dangers for the future of our people. This has to be rectified if we are going to overcome the tensions, the pressures and the inequalities that have been suffered by migrant and Australian alike.

I understand the problem very cleary when it comes to questioning the migration programme. I think we should refer to this because after all we are debating a Bill which provides money at this time of supposed austerity to do some thing in relation to migration when there are voices raised in, the community saying: ‘Stop it. Finish it. We must have no more of it.’ They are very dogmatic voices. I spoke to the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) before I rose in this debate. I was going to say something harsh and much more pointed because I understood that the Government had already decided to make a significant cut in the programme while an investigation has just been launched to find out whether it is beneficial or not. That would have been the act of a reckless cowboy riding into a town for an overnight stand. But the Minister said: ‘No. We are not going to cut it. We have not really made up our minds yet.’ I welcome that remark, because there is no point in having an investigation of the facts saying: Whether it is good or bad we are not going to wait for the results. We are going to make a cut.’ I accept the Minister’s assurance that the cut has not been made in those terms. I will say in relation to the debate on migration that in Australia we do not have the sort of information-

Mr Giles:

– I rise to order. With great respect, the matter before the House, I thought, was the education of migrant groups. We have now heard the honourable member for over 10 minutes and the subject has not been touched upon.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! The honourable member will resume his seat. There is no substance in the point of order.

Mr GRASSBY:

– Thank you, Mr Speaker. I feel that the point has been missed, but if we do have better after dinner attention the honourable member may pick it up. The point 1 was going to make was whether we are going to spend this money on a programme which it has been advocated should be reduced or obviated altogether and set to one side. The Opposition has indicated through the honourable member for Grayndler that when we vote we are going to be quite unanimous about accepting this legislation, with the stricture and with the criticism for its tardiness. Nevertheless, we want it. We have wanted to see it for a long time and we are going to have it. But surely to goodness in this national forum we have to relate the action we are taking to the reality of whether we are going to continue this programme. At this stage we have not the information before us to be dogmatic. We are not in a position to say that migration is inflationary or anti-inflationary in our situation. If honourable members wanted me to make out a case tonight I could refer to the experience of Great Britain, France, Canada and many other countries. I submit that we have not reached this stage, so let us pursue the investigations which are under way before we become dogmatic.

The problems of the children of migrants and the education of migrants are bound up with the demographic distribution of population in our community It is quite incredible that the demographic centre of Australia has not changed since the census of 1911. Modesty almost prohibits me from mentioning that the demographic centre of Australia happens to be in Merriwagga. 1 will not say what electorate that is in. This is a finding of the Bureau of Census and Statistic: which establishes that since the first census in our country in 1911 there has been no significant change at all in the distribution! of population. This is related to the problems of migrants, because in a situation of over-centralisation and overcrowding the problems are multiplied. These are the problems that we face in relation to this measure. 1 suggest that when we have an investigation of what we should be doing with the migrants coming into our country we should also direct attention to the locations where they are settling. I am not saying the locations to which they arc directed, because there is no direction made. There is an inevitability in our present economic and planning situation - or lack of planning situation - that they will end up in an overcrowded location. I wanted to make that point very plain, because when we apply ourselves to this problem we should not limit our considerations for the classrooms and the capital expenditure needed to enable children to be properly educated. The problem is related to the overall disposition of our population and to the declining quality of life of Australians and migrants alike. I wanted to make that point clear. Before I get to the specific questions 1 wish to ask of the Minister on this measure I shall refer in passing to the matters that were directed to me personally by the honourable member for Boothby (Mr Mclean who described my comments in relation to some migrants in the community as quite asinine. 1 take it as a compliment from the honourable member for Boothby that he should refer to my comments in that way. It is important for the morale of migrant children from wherever they come - and it was indicated that we now have migrant children coming from Asia, Europe and indeed all the continents of the world - that there is no misunderstanding in the minds of those children about the attitude of the Australian people to them. This is why 1 addressed an appeal while I was overseas recently to the Minister for Immigration to reject completely and very bluntly the statements made by the Victorian Immigration Minister, Mr Vance Dickie. Wherever I went - and I followed in your footsteps in some regards, Mr Speaker, and I realise you cannot comment from the Chair - he was a monumental embarrassment to the nation. He caused resentment amongst the most conservative Australians who said that this man did not speak for our people, did not speak even for the Government and, I am sure, did not speak for the Minister for Immigration who sits at the table. T would never insult him by suggesting that he had adopted such an extreme attitude as to talk about 99 per cent of those with dark blood being rejected-

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! I think the honourable member is getting away from the subject matter of the Bill.

Mr GRASSBY:

– It is just a passing reference. 1 want to say te the Minister that he should say to every migrant child under this system that he rejects such Goebbels-esque nonsense. I am sure he will because it should be done. I do not want to go further into the remarks of the honourable member for Boothby except to say one sentence in repudiation. He said that the references I had made to Mr Dickie, the references I had made to the equality of people irrespective of the texture of their skin and their background, were asinine. It is his right to regard them as asinine. I regard his criticism as a compliment but I do not wish to refer to it further. In relation to the measure before us I ask the Minister whether this assistance will be given to students who end up in either the public or independent sectors.

This is an important matter of policy and principle and I would like him to clear this up.

Mr Lynch:

– That is the case.

Mr GRASSBY:

– Thank you. I appreciate that, for it is important. The other point I wanted to make was in relation to new arrivals. The Minister has indicated there will be facilities for those who are in numbers? The honourable member for Wills (Mr Bryant) and the honourable member for Grayndler (Mr Daly) referred to the fact that wherever there are major numbers there are also individuals. I direct the Minister’s attention to the fact that they are individuals and I will give one quick example. A young man who arrived from Venezuela was proficient to matriculation standard in all subjects, including Spanish and Italian. He reached Australia on the eve of his matriculation examinations but was not able to tackle the examinations in English. This was an isolated case. Where does he stand under this legislation? He came with 2 languages to matriculant standard. He was not able to make it in English immediately. Where does he stand as an individual as against the mass attack in the capital cities? I ask the Minister whether he has directed his attention to the absorption centres in Israel which has taken in more migrants per capita than any other nation in the world, lt has taken people - starting at the top - from rural, professional and urban walks of life. They enter various categories of interest and professionalism and in 12 weeks they are able to go into their callings whether they are doctors, plumbers, dentists or what have you. I ask the Minister whether he has made a study of this and whether he will apply the great knowledge gained there over 21 years. These are some of the questions I wish to pose in relation to this n: measure

In summation, 1 hope that this measure will go some way after 20 years towards relieving the hardship and disadvantage of many migrant children. It does meet the struggles and desires of people in migration, the Good Neighbour Movement. I am particularly pleased and I know they will be particularly pleased that this measure has come down. Let us admit our mistakes in the past, say we are sorry and will do better in future. I commend to the Minister the thought: Delayed we might have been but let us unite in doing better in the future.

Mr LYNCH:
Minister for Immigration · Flinders · LP

– The Bill before the House is a particularly vital one and its importance has been well stressed by honourable members on both sides. This legislation is in fact proposed because of the basic importance of education to successful migrant integration. It relates to new initiatives in the area of adult migrant education, to the greater provision of fulltime intensive courses of instruction, and to the area of child migrant education. I have listened with considerable interest to the large number of constructive suggestions which have been put forward by both sides of the House in what has been a very wide ranging debate. It is, of course, quite impossible for me at this time to deal individually with all the points which have been brought forward. My purpose will be to concentrate on some of the more basic issues raised and the questions posed by individual members. Those matters which I am unable to deal with because of the problem of time I will take up in writing with the particular members. I need hardly say at the outset that the amendment moved by the Opposition is totally unacceptable to the Government.

Mr Daly:

– That is surprising.

Mr LYNCH:

– The honourable member tor Grayndler (Mr Daly) may well be surprised but it certainly will not be a surprise to any honourable member on this side of the House. The Opposition has charged that there has been an inordinate delay by the Government in introducing a comprehensive programme of migrant education. The introduction of any major new initiative by a government can, of course, be subjected to this charge by an opposition I want to make it perfectly clear that the new initiatives which have been the subject of discussion in the debate on this Bill have not waited until this time for their implementation. They have in fact been taking place since the Bill was first brought down in the second reading speech in this House. I also say quite clearly that I am more concerned with the forward development of this programme in future years than to attempt tonight to justify past events to honourable members opposite.

The amendment ignores the substantial measures taken since the early days of post war immigration by this Government and by the government before it to develop a comprehensive programme of migrant education. It was in 1947 when at the initiative of the then Minister for Immigration, the now Right Honourable Arthur Calwell, agreement was reached between the Commonwealth Government and the Preparatory Commission of the International Refugee Organisation on a scheme for the admission of refugees and displaced persons from Europe that the first action was taken to formulate a migration education programme which involved at that time both the teaching of English and an appreciation of Australian life. My first point is that the background of this Bill goes back a very long period of time. It was in 1947 that the first migrant education officers were appointed in overseas countries, a shipboard education programme was introduced and the groundwork was laid for what has since become an extensive programme of continuation classes, radio and correspondence courses to reach the adult migrant community in Australia. Of course, this is a position which has never remained static. It has involved surveys in concert with the States and clearly some time was required in order to marshal essential information before positive action could be taken to isolate those areas of need upon which an effective programme could be well constructed. These surveys related not only to adult migrants but also to migrant children in the schools.

In February 1960 a special committee of the Commonwealth Immigration Advisory Council submitted a report on the progress and assimilation of migrant children in Australia. This involved a study of both pre-school children and children in primary and secondary schools, a survey of schools in which migrant children were enrolled and consultation with their teachers. The Department of Immigration again took the initiative in 1962 in conducting a survey of ‘Abandonment from Migrant Education Classes in Victoria’. In late 1967 and early 1968 the Department initiated the planning of a major survey of the educational needs of both adult and child migrants, and this led to the report on the situation of migrant children in schools in New South Wales which has provided such an important basis for the new initiatives for child migrant education.

Complementary studies were undertaken at the same time by my Department which again studied the abandonment rate from continuation classes and the special needs of migrant women and adolescent migrants. These surveys, together with experience gathered over the years, have led to the current policy of developing accelerated forms of instruction to supplement the long term continuation programme and the need for specialisation through courses of instruction orientated towards the particular needs of individual groups of migrants. Inevitably, however, the Government has been obliged to concentrate its efforts on the adult migrant education programme, it being generally accepted that the responsibility for migrant children in schools was that of the State Education Departments. It is significant to note that it was not until towards the end of the 1960s that the States themselves began to appreciate the need for special and additional measures for migrant children.

In a large measure this situation had developed as the result of an increase in the intake of non-English speaking migrant families. There was also, as a result of the surveys undertaken, a much better appreciation of the problem which existed. What I am therefore saying to the House is that migrant education in Australia has just not commenced with the inception of the Bill before the House; that there is a long history of development; and that this Bill is in fact the culmination of many efforts which have been made in past years.

The second major point in the amendment moved by the Opposition concerns the lack of financial assistance for the provision of capital equipment, including buildings, and this was the particular point raised in the House by the honourable member for Grayndler and also, I recall, by the honourable member for Burke(Mr Keith Johnson). Of course, the Opposition always can enjoy the luxury of complaining that services provided by this Government are insufficient without at the same time having the responsibility to provide the funds which are required in order that those expenditures can take place. But I say tonight that, consistent with the funds available, programmes have been developed which include the provision of capital equipment of the language laboratory type to all schools where special teachers are employed.

Expenditure this year on migrant education represents an increase of 166 per cent over the funds available last financial year and that, I am sure, will be seen on either side of the House as a measure of very considerable progress indeed. The funds available this financial year have been sufficient to provide equipment to some 277 schools. This does not represent all of the schools where special teachers are employed, but it is important that the first need is for special teachers and for essential teaching and learning materials and teaching aids of the less sophisticated type. Laboratory type equipment is also desirable and of course of great advantage, but it is not in fact absolutely essential.

To this stage the Government has not been able to accept the proposition that buildings and classrooms in particular should be a charge on the migrant education vote, and there are reasons for this which I shall deal with shortly.

Firstly, let me emphasise the point that immigration is not totally a Commonwealth responsibility. Since the post-war period it has been regarded as a partnership between the Commonwealth and the States; between employers and employees. Whilst the States have had the responsibility for bearing the cost of servicing the social infrastructure required by migrants on their early arrival in Australia, it is fair to report that to this stage no State government in Australia has in fact called for a reduction of the migrant intake in its particular State. The Government maintains that funds for classrooms are not a proper charge to the migrant education vote for a number of reasons.

In the first place, funds under the programme are of course not without limit and in response to the States’ requirements, these funds have already been fully committed in meeting teachers’ salaries and in providing schools with laboratory equipment of the type that I have previously mentioned. Secondly, the accommodation requirements of schools cannot be attributable only to newly arriving migrant children, and expenditure on additional classroom space is appropriately, in the view of the Commonwealth, a charge to the States’ capital works votes. Thirdly, as a result of decisions taken at the June 1970 Australian Loan Council meeting the States received a substantial increase in 1970-71 in funds available for capital works. Of course, in the particular context of the economic circumstances with which this nation is now dealing, these conditions provide further restraints on Government spending and support the view that immigration funds should not be used to finance capital works in the States. Finally, I might mention that the migrant education programme provides financial assistance in establishing central language laboratories to which children are brought from surrounding schools, thus avoiding the additional classroom demands created by what is called the withdrawal class system. Some States follow this procedure at the present time.

Having said this, I can nevertheless appreciate what has been brought forward by those honourable members who have raised this point in a specific sense, and I can assure the House that the Government will continue to look closely at any and every aspect of the migrant education programme, particularly those aspects of the programme which may appear to be inhibiting its development, and certainly in any future review of policy the possibility of providing financial assistance in other areas will be kept under close consideration.

I refer now to some of the points raised in this debate by honourable members. I recall that the honourable member for Grayndler pointed to the acute shortage of teachers in the general community and queried our capacity to provide the number of teachers involved. The rate at which the child migrant education programme has developed since it was announced in April of last year has in fact exceeded expectations. At the end of the 1970 school year a total of 310 teachers were already employed by State Education Departments and by independent schools. Of these, 84 were permanent employees and the remainder, 226, were engaged on a temporary or casual basis. Of the 84 permanent teachers, 69 had already been employed on instructing special groups of migrant children before the introduction of the Commonwealth programme. It is estimated that the peak requirement for special teachers could now be reached in the next financial year and that it should not be greatly in excess of 400.

One of the conditions under which the child migrant education programme operates is that preferably the special teachers should be additional to the normal teaching establishments so that the drain on normal teaching establishments will be avoided and, in the main, this has certainly been the pattern of developments to date. I might mention that the advertisements of the States for temporary appointment of special teachers have met with a very encouraging response, but it is important to observe that the majority are married women who are accepting appointment only on a part time basis. Of course they would, in this sense, not normally be available to work as teachers in that capacity on a full-time basis.

The honourable member for Grayndler also queried the extent to which there had been a response from industry in supporting the concept of the migrant education programme. Classes at the work site have been part of the normal continuation programme for migrant education in the Australian community. At present some 70 classes are currently held in factories in Sydney and Melbourne, though in the employees’ time. 1 stress this, in passing, because I recall that this matter was the subject of emphasis by the honourable member for Grayndler. For some time, and particularly in recent months, we have been endeavouring to encourage employers to provide classes at work in the employers’ time but I must report that so far we have not met with adequate response. Nevertheless useful discussions have been held. Certainly we will continue to promote the concept of employers’ participation in a programme which we believe to be in their interest - a programme which we do not believe they ought to stand aside from - and are hopeful that further progress can be reported. I believe that the education of migrant workers in both language and citizenship should be a normal part of the personnelmanagement practice of all major employers of migrant labour and I would certainly hope, andI indicate to the House my own expectation, that it will not be long before this can be referred to as a reality.

The honourable member for Hughes (Mr Les Johnson) made some point of the use of television and radio media. He appeared to be under the misapprehension that my Department was not using these facilities to the maximum. Because of the lack of time I have not the opportunity to detail the various diverse measures which are used by the Department through the media of television and radio, but I will be happy to provide the honourable member with the details in writing because the progress which we have made is quite considerable.

The honourable member for Batman (Mr Garrick) referred particularly to the needs of adolescent migrants and the older migrants confined to their homes - both groups lacking formal education - and he indicated that he believed that the situational method of teaching English was ill-suited to the needs of these particular groups. He suggested that we should use a bi-lingual teacher in these cases. He said that migrants should be instructed in their own language, in their own cultures and be taught in classes of their own nationality. I can assure the honourable member that the teaching techniques used by my Department are by no means confined to the situational method, though the basic advantages of this method, which is recognised as of international standing, are such that it does allow migrants of any number of different nationalities to be taught in one class by one teacher who does not necessarily need to know their languages. It therefore has a number of obvious advantages. However I will be happy to provide further details in writing to the honourable member.

The honourable member for Boothby (Mr McLeay) and the honourable member for Riverina (Mr Grassby) referred to the need at this time for far more basic and fundamental information upon which to structure better the migrant intake and general programmes in future years. I refer only in passing to the major studies which have been initiated and I assure both honourable members who raised the concept of optimum population levels and the distribution of population throughout Australia that these are two precise but quite complex questions which are part of the population survey being conducted by Professor W. D. Borrie of the Australian National University. The honourable gentlemen will, of course, recognise that Professor Borrie is a demographer of world reputation and I am certain that in commissioning Professor Borrie and a staff of research officers under his control to investigate this matter the Government has acted wisely.

This major study, along with the cost benefit analysis, will provide in the future that information which we, as a Commonwealth Government, need to structure better future immigration programmes to our objectives in the 1970s. The cost benefit study of immigration is a long overdue attempt to provide an evaluation of the costs and benefits to Australia of immigration. lt is, in fact, intended to break away from the subjectivism which, to some extent, has tended to dominate discussions of this issue during the course of the past 26 years. I emphasise that the study is concerned with a very complex matter indeed. Those who understand the technical implications of a cost benefit analysis dealing as it does with the economy seen on a macro basis will understand the need for the time involved. Those responsible for the research have been directed to complete their studies at the earliest opportunity. The Government quite decisively rejects the amendment before the House and commends the Bill to honourable members.

Question put:

That the words proposed to be omitted stand as part of .the question.

The House divided. (Mr Speaker - Hon. Sir William Aston)

AYES: 57

NOES: 53

Majority

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Original question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee

The Bill.

Immigration) (8.54) - I refer to clause 2 which reads:

Mr LYNCH (Flinders- Minister for

This Act shall come into operation on the first day of July, one thousand nine hundred and seventy. 1 move:

Omit ‘first day of July, One thousand nine hundred and seventy’, insert ‘day on which it receives the Royal Assent’.

Originally it was intended that the Act should come into operation on 1st July 1970. In view of the delay which has occurred in the resumption of the debate following the second reading speech on 19th May 1970 it is now proposed that clause 2 should be amended by omitting the words first day of July, One thousand nine hundred and seventy’ and inserting the words ‘day on which it receives the Royal assent’. This amendment will be clear to honourable members on both sides of the Chamber. I do not intend to speak to the amendment at any further length because the matter is self evident.

Mr DALY:
Grayndler

– The amendment moved bv the Minister for

Mr BRYANT:
Wills

– The amendment moved by the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) makes one inclined to ask what is the use of the operation at all? About 12 months ago the Minister for Labour and National Service (Mr Snedden), who was acting for the Minister for Immigration, tabled in this House a piece of legislation to cover migrant education. This evening the Minister for Immigration has told us that there was no need for the legislation because he had proceeded with the granting of money and so on without legislative authority. Now, 11 or 12 months later, we are changing the date to fit the legislation into an Act of the Government. All I put before the chamber is that this is a fairly cavalier way in which to approach the authority of this Parliament.

The CHAIRMAN (Mr Lucock:
LYNE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Order! The level of conversation in the chamber is still far too high.

Mr BRYANT:

– One can easily understand the problem that we face when a fraction more than the majority of honourable members in the chamber do not give a damn about Parliament or its ways and works. The facts are that some 10 or 11 months ago a piece of legislation was introduced to authorise the expenditure of money for a social purpose. There was no debate for almost a year. The Minister told us this afternoon that his Department was able to proceed and get rid of the money in any case. Therefore, what was the use of the operation? What is the use of Parliament? What a way to treat the place. The people on the other side of the chamber are responsible. To have kept this legislation on the stocks for so long was very discourteous both to the people who are supposed to be the beneficiaries of the legislation and the Parliament itself.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Mr GRASSBY:
Riverina

– The Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) at the second reading stage, in response to a query I put to him, indicated that the assistance which will be extended under this Bill will also be extended to independent schools. Clause 3 of the Bill indicates that capital equipment of an educational nature will be (Education) Bill 171

Mr BRYANT:
Wills

– My understanding was that some of the non State schools in Victoria received their dividends from this legislation faster than schools in the State school system. Is this because there is a more direct line of communication between some of the non State schools and the department administering the legislation at this end? If this is so is the bureaucracy of the Victorian department slowing things down? If there is some reason I would like to know what it is. If this in fact is what happens I think the Minister for Immigration (Mr Lynch) ought to take steps to see that there is no disadvantage placed upon the State system because some of that State’s bureaucracies are slow moving.

Mr LYNCH:
Minister for Immigration · Flinders · LP

– Two points have been raised. In the first place I understand from the honourable member for Riverina (Mr Grassby) that he is querying the general procedure whereby grants are allocated against the various educational systems in Australia. If that be the precise meaning of the query which he has raised I respond by saying this: My Department receives submissions from State Ministers for Education in regard to matters concerning State educational systems. That covers the State systems. Those submissions then are subject to judgment and response to the State Ministers concerned. The independent schools also are the subject of submissions from the respective authorities for the independent schools in each of the States.

Mr Grassby:

– Does the Minister mean through the respective State governments?

Mir LYNCH- No, they come direct. The State governments, on behalf of the 17 February 1971

State schools submit their representations direct. The independent schools also make their submissions direct to the Department. 1 turn to the query raised by the honourable member for Wills (Mr Bryant). J really thought that he was being a little political, if I may put it to him that way, although the House will recognise that this is most unlike the honourable member. Apart from the appropriation by Parliament, as I indicated in brief this afternoon legislation is not strictly necessary for the purposes of this Bill as no coercive powers are being sought and the activities of the Department of Immigration in arranging for the expenditure of moneys in fact would be well within the executive powers of the Commonwealth with respect to immigration. But I thought the honourable member might well have responded to the opportunity to discuss this matter and to have it before the Parliament even if its consideration has been somewhat delayed for reasons which, as the honourable member will understand, are outside my direct control. We believe, frankly, in looking at this as an important measure and one well worthy of legislation. The development of the child migration education programme in particular was a new Commonwealth interest involving considerable expenditure of Commonwealth funds and therefore was most properly a matter which ought to be in the form of a Bill to come before the Parliament. Consequently, in introducing the programme, we considered at the time that it was important that in its presentation it should be supported by legislation so that clearly at this time and in future years a series of reports will come before the Parliament indicating what progress has been made.

There is certainly no desire to deal with this matter by stealth. There never has been such a desire and there will not be in the future. The fact that the Bill is before the Parliament has given honourable members what I believe to be a very useful opportunity to relate constructively to the proposal before us. They have done so from both sides and I have noted the suggestions which have been put forward. I think that those remarks cover the 2 queries that have been raised.

Mr BRYANT:
Wills

- Mr Chairman, I wish to answer something that was said by the Minister for Immigration (Mr

Lynch). He implied that he had given us an opportunity to do something about this matter. I said that it was 10 months or 11 months ago since this proposal was introduced. The figures that I quoted in this respect were ones that I obtained from the schools. The letter that I have in my hand is dated 12th June 1970. It commences: ‘In response to the information you request on May 28th . . . ‘ It is 8 months or 9 months since we on this side of the chamber took an active interest in getting information and ascertaining attitudes. To produce the Bill here after all this delay in my view demonstrates rather a dilatory approach to the matter. The fact is that the Parliament should have discussed this proposal when the whole thing was initiated. It is all right for the Minister to act as if he owns the country and can distribute largesse as he wishes but Parliament should discuss the matter first.

Mr LYNCH:
Minister for Immigration · Flinders · LP

– I do not wish to dwell on what seems to me to be a peripheral point in one sense except to say to the honourable member for Wills (Mr Bryant) that really if it has taken him 8 or 9 months to assemble his own information and to make his own judgment 1 think he has taken a long time-

Mr Bryant:

– That is not true. I told the Minister that I had the information in May.

Mr LYNCH:

– I do not recall it. I would never attack the honourable gentleman personally because of my esteem and affection for him, but surely if he had a very real interest in this matter it might have occurred to him, even in passing, to ask a question in Parliament, to write to me or to talk to me on the telephone. I do not deny the interest of the honourable gentleman in this subject but I really think that, in fairness to the Committee, I should say that he is drawing a very long bow indeed.

Bill, as amended, agreed to.

Bill reported with an amendment: report - by leave - adopted.

Third Reading

Bill (on motion by Mr Lynch) - by leave - read a third time.

page 173

MAPPING SURVEYS BILL 1970

Second Reading

Debater resumed from 5 March 1970 (vide page 152), on motion by Mr Swartz: That the Bill be now read a second time.

Dr PATTERSON:
Dawson

- Mr Speaker, on 5th March of last year, almost 12 months ago, the Minister for National Development (Mr Swartz) presented the Mapping Surveys Bill 1970 and delivered his second reading speech. Today, almost 12 months later, the second reading debate on that Bill is to take place. This gives an indication of the way in which this Government works. So apparently it takes 12 months to bring on for debate a Bill which is of technical importance to Australia in that it makes provision for the mapping of Australia’s resources.

The principal purpose of this Bill is to empower the Minister for National Development to authorise certain action which will accelerate and facilitate the mapping of Australia’s resources. The mapping is done primarily by the Department of National Development through its Division of National Mapping which, I might say, is a Division thought of very highly by the State departments as well as by the other Commonwealth departments which are concerned with the mapping of resources.

This Bill makes provision for the rights of officers employed by the Department of National Development to enter on to properties, to place survey marks, geodetic pegs or whatever it might be, in relation to survey work. Up to the present time, some doubt has always existed as to the right of a Commonwealth officer to go on to private property in the Commonwealth to carry out his work. What this Bill does is to ensure that officers of the Commonwealth, when carrying out their mapping surveys and ancillary works, will not be molested in any way and in fact will be empowered to go on to properties to carry out this work.

The Bill also provides for compensation to landholders in respect of any damage which may be done in the course of such surveys. Provision is made in the Bill for landholders to object to unlawful damage to properties. The Bill sets out this provision quite explicitly. As I said before, one of the functions of the Department of National Development is the mapping of Australian resources. Very little is heard about the Division of National Mapping, which might be called a non-policy making body. It has a job to do purely in a technical field, whether it be taking aerial photographs or making land surveys. I would like to pay a tribute to the officers who constitute this Division because, as anybody who has worked in the technical field knows, the maps that the Division prepares and arranges are invaluable in projects concerned with the development of Australia.

Projects which have been passed by this Parliament I believe have not paid sufficient attention to the work of the Division of National Mapping. These maps are important, for example, in the construction of beef roads. The whole basis of the beef roads scheme is not so much the construction of the roads but the purpose or the objective of the roads. The purpose is to develop Australia’s cattle resources by using the roads for the transport of cattle, which is to the net benefit of the nation. During the compilation of the case for beef roads a great deal of use was made of maps, particularly aerial maps, compiled by the Division of National Mapping in the Department of National Development. These aerial maps showed the classification of the country. Perhaps the best example of legislation that has gone through this Parliament being dependent upon the use of aerial maps showing the classification of country is the legislation relating to the brigalow areas 1, 2 and 3. Something like 10 million acres of this land were classified by aerial maps, and where any problems arose ground traverses were made to check them.

It has often puzzled and amazed farmers and graziers that one can sit down with a stereoscope and classify land more accurately than can someone who has traversed the ground on foot. In the brigalow area something like 103 land classes alone were classified from the air just by looking through the stereoscope, using aerial maps and then, if any problems arose, for example if there were areas of whipstick brigalow or burnt-out brigalow, going into the area to check. This is one of the practical uses of aerial maps in the development of Australia. Very rarely are these maps wrong. The aerial photographs are particularly accurate.

It is pleasing to see also that the Bureau of Mineral Resources extensively uses maps prepared by the Division of National Mapping. Almost every survey party in northern Australia, for that matter all of Australia, has been concerned with areas for which the Bureau of Mineral Resources carries the aerial maps or relevant maps. Anybody who has worked or travelled extensively in northern Australia - in the remote areas of Cape York Peninsula, Arnhem Land or the Kimberleys - knows full well the great value of aerial maps to him. The Minister for Social Services (Mr Wentworth), who is at the table, has I know travelled in these areas, and I am sure that he for one has used these aerial maps not only to know where he has been going but also to know the type of country that was in close proximity to him. The Land Research Division of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation is one of the greatest users in the Commonwealth of these maps. The land classifications of northern Australia in particular have been carried out with these maps. They could not have been carried out without the maps. Whether we are concerned with soils, botany, hydrology or whatever it might be, we must have access to accurate maps. When we speak about maps we mean principally aerial maps, from which one can read the type of land class as well as the natural resources to be found there.

I note from the Minister’s second reading speech that the Government is carrying out a 10-year accelerated programme in the mapping field. This will be welcomed, because the aerial maps for a lot of areas of Australia are out of date. Many of them were compiled during World War II. In fact, it was not until, I think, 1968 that for the first time in Australia’s history this continent of almost 3 million square miles was covered by a uniform series of maps. The Minister has informed us of this in his second reading speech. Only 3 years ago we had for the first time at least a uniform set of maps, and now we are refining these maps in more detail, particularly with respect to levels on the ground. The Department of National Development is also procuring sophisticated equipment, and this is to be commended. To give an example of this equipment, as quoted by the Minister in his second reading speech, special air survey cameras will, from a height of 25,000 feet, give a photograph of an area of 140 square miles. As I have said before, we cannot get anything more accurate than a photograph. Distances of up to 200 miles are measured with electronic equipment.

It is quite obvious that the Opposition supports the Bill. It is one of those Bills which always are welcomed in the Parliament because they provide for technical advance. I want to say something about an area in which I believe there is need for more intensive mapping, and that is the off-shore area, particularly the Great Barrier Reef. The Great Barrier Reef is one of the most complex systems of natural resources in the world. The myriads of islands, rocks and reefs which are covered at high tide but exposed at low tide make the job of mapping the area for the purpose of accurate delineation of, say territorial and international waters, which is of extreme importance to Australia, a very difficult one. The solution which I put to the Parliament is that, first of all, we have to map these areas more accurately. Almost every month there are international incidents in these waters.

We need not map them for the purposes of showing the limitations of territorial water: and the high seas if we lay claim to the rights of the Barrier Reef waters on behalf of the Commonwealth of Australia, which in effect would be on behalf of the Australian people. As I said before, a Federal Labor Government, in accordance with its policy, would assert ownership of the waters of the Great Barrier Reef and would, if necessary, fight in the International Court of Justice to retain those waters if its actions were challenged. There is plenty of precedent to back such a move, in the opinion of learned international lawyers, not only in Australia but also overseas. The uncertainties under current interpretations of international Jaw relating to the ownership of the seas lying adjacent to the territorial seas which surround the islands, reefs and cays, whether they be submerged or not submerged at high tide, are clearly unsatisfactory to Queensland and to the Commonwealth. There is a need to map these areas more accurately.

I believe that the mapping of these resources should have been carried out a long time ago. They should have been given a greater priority in the past. But of course one has to look at resources in terms of priorities, and it has been the decision of the Government to concentrate not so much on off-shore areas as areas on-shore If we had full control of these waters, not only would we benefit from mapping, in not having to do so much work, but all foreign vessels that traversed Great Barrier Reef waters, the high seas, would in fact be completely under the control of Australia. One can imagine, for example, what would happen if the Barrier Reef waters lay adjacent to Russia, China, Japan or the United States. There would be no argument then as to who owned the resources lying adjacent to those countries and therefore Australia should not hesitate to claim what most people believe is rightly ours. There is a need, however, to carry out more concentrated work on this complex natural resource and for the Division of National Mapping to work in close consultation wilh the Commonwealth authorities concerned with geological and hydrological research as well as the university and other authorities concerned with the same sciences and marine biology. This is one practical field where the Division of National Mapping can greatly assist in furthering the research carried out in this country.

The Opposition supports the Bill and, as I said before, it does so in the belief that this accelerated mapping programme will not be cut down in this squeeze which the Prime Minister (Mr Gorton) has indicated but not proven as far as the Parliament is concerned, because here is a public service which is of vital importance to the productivity of this country. As I have said before, it is of great use to many of the productive Commonwealth departments in terms of development. These include the Bureau of Mineral Resources, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, the Land Research Division, the Bureau of Agricultural Economics, the Northern Division of the Department of National Development and the State departments of agriculture, which are all using these aerial maps and other maps extensively in their work in land classification. The great irrigation schemes that are at present proceeding in Australia or are in the development stage, such a.» the Ord River, the Nogoa scheme, the Bundaberg irrigation scheme and those in New South Wales and Victoria, have all been backed by maps compiled by the Commonwealth authorities and the Department of National Development. Of course, the more remote the area is the more valuable the map is because that is all one really has to go on. If one has not the superficial experience of the person who works the soil or knows the country all one goes on are the maps themselves. The Opposition supports the Bill.

Mr DOBIE:
Cook

– I feel I must comment upon the delay that has taken place in bringing this Bill before the House. It is now a year since the second reading speech was made and no doubt the officers who are involved in this authorising legislation will feel some nostalgia when they realise that it appeared on every House of Representatives notice paper issued in 1970. Now it is finally before the House for debate and passing on today, I sincerely hope, to the Senate. One can only anticipate that it will have a somewhat speedier passage in that other place. Such delays in legislation, irrespective of how great a national priority it mayor may not enjoy, cannot be condoned by members of this House.

I ask the Minister for Social Services (Mr Wentworth), who is at the table, whether his colleague the Minister for National Development (Mr Swartz) can inform the House why the delay has taken place and what inconvenience has been caused to his Department by the fact that this Bill has lain on the table, seemingly ignored by the House, for such a lengthy period. The House will remember that in his second reading speech, on 5th March 1970, the Minister for National Development indicated that two of the primary purposes of this Bill were to authorise the right of entry by departmental mapping survey parties onto land, and to permit the clearing of trees and vegetation should this be necessary.

The Minister told us that these authorisations were and are to apply only where these activities were necessary for Commonwealth purposes and only when proper advance notice, which must be given to the landowner, had been given.

With the delay that has taken place in having such authority enacted, one must be concerned as to whether the rights of the survey parties and the landowners have been protected during this somewhat twilight period for this Bill. 1 sincerely hope these rights have been safeguarded and I would welcome clarification on these points from the Minister about what will happen to departmental officers against whom action may be taken in a court of competent jurisdiction. Are they protected by other Commonwealth Acts? What will happen to a landowner who seeks compensation for damage caused by survey parties since March 1970?

The Minister mentioned that the survey parties are to do as little damage as possible but where damage must necessarily occur there is provision for compensation of the landowner. Of course, the history of the Department’s survey parties has been satisfactory but 1 would hope that there is some retrospectivity in this legislation to cover both parties, at least for the period the Bill has lain, immovable it would seem, on the table. If not, will the Minister consider amending the Bill to achieve retrospective protection for all parties involved?

The Bill contains another most important provision, and that is for the preservation of survey marks. The essential task of Commonwealth mapping organisations is to determine the latitude, longitude and height in relation to mean sea level of the natural surface of the Australian continent, of man made features located thereon, of the continental shelf offshore and of the seaward aids to navigation.

In order to carry out their tasks, J am informed that surveyors establish an approximate grid pattern of very high precision alt over the country which are very well marked on the ground and which enable mapping operations to be started in isolated areas by any governmental or private mapping agency and to eventually merge into a perfectly co-ordinated pattern over the whole of Australia and its adjacent waters. On land I believe it is possible to set up special electronic survey equipment on these marked stations to enable accurate positioning of aircraft and of air photograph from which maps are made. Obviously these maps will need to b>: revised from lime to time, and additional mapping at larger scale and in greater density for particular areas will no doubt follow, but all these activities will fit into one homogeneous pattern because, and only because, of the continued existence of the basic survey marks. It is evident then that it has been necessary for provision to be made for the preservation of survey marks and I am certain most landowners will continue to co-operate in doing what is required of them in this regard for the national good.

Along the coastline, survey stations are established for special radio equipment which permits the accurate positioning of survey vessels at sea where they would be used in sounding the depths of the sea bed. I am told that the hydrographic service of the Royal Australian Navy is engaged on the accurate survey of navigation route; between the ports situated around the Australian coastline. We all realise that navigation routes are being travelled by ships of rapidly increasing size to transport the great mineral wealth that has been discovered in recent years all over Australia, and we similarly realise how important the accurate surveying of these routes is going to be again for Australia’s develop ment, and can only hope that the delay in this Bill’s passage does not presage any reduction or postponement in this programme. I would welcome the Minister’s assurance on thU point.

Inquiries have shown that the Royal Australian Navy hopes to bring these surveys completely up to date during this decade and the Minister for National Development has announced that concurrently with these hydrographic surveys his department would engage on a 10-year programme to bathymetrically map the continental shelf. I am told this bathymetric mapping will be on a much broader scope than the detailed hydrographic surveys of navigation routes but will be co-ordinated with them. It will determine the contour and physiography of the continental shelf at a scale of 1 : 250,000 or approximately 4 miles to 1 inch or, in view of the trend to . metrication 2.5 kilometers to 1 centimetre.

The ships making these surveys will also be accurately guided to their correct latitude and longitude position by special shore based equipment located on surveyed stations, to which I have already mad. reference. The end result will be a series of bathymetric maps which will provide accurate background data for, and enable the proper recording of, all sorts of scientific investigations of the surface of the continental shelf and of the waters above it, and of the resources thereon, therein and thereunder.

As we know the Department of National Development is currently engaged on geological, magnetic, seismic and gravity surveys of the shelf. The Minister has described much of this in his second reading speech and although I have spoken before on the success of the Government’s mapping division since the end of World War II when, I remind the House, only 5 per cent of Australia had been adequately mapped by Australians, I would repeat to the House that if we had not undertaken such a comprehensive mapping programme and if the programme had not achieved the success it has, in providing precise and accurate geological maps in sufficient detail, then the magnificent mineral development going on in Australia would not, and could not. have even been contemplated. This discovery was not an accident: it was the result of firm Government policy from this side. 1 am pleased to have been informed that the Government is still going ahead with the establishment of a marine sciences institution based in Townsville which will initiate, direct and co-ordinate other forms of scientific research into the waters surrounding our Australian coastline. In order that the results obtained from these scientific activities be co-ordinated into a perfect co-relation with each other and to permit full and complete environmental and ecological studies it is necessary for the ships on which observations are made to be accurately positioned in latitude and longitude. This will necessitate temporary but repeated location at previously marked survey stations of the same sort of radio positioning equipment that is used by the mappers. If these repetitive activities are to move on smoothly and efficiently the originally marked stations must also be preserved intact for continuing use by surveyors who must therefore also have reasonable rights of access to these sites. It is in order to preserve these survey marks that this Bill authorises the establishment of the survey marks in the first instance and provides penalties to discourage those who would damage them. 1 repeat that there is a necessity, not only to establish, but above all to maintain and preserve the survey marks that have been made and are being established by Commonwealth mapping surveyors. Of equal importance is the necessity to authorise reasonable access to these survey marks for the purposes not only of continuing map revision and map intensification, but also for the scientific and resources surveys that from henceforward will no doubt be a continuing pattern to provide the basic statistical information necessary for the complex problems associated with the balanced development and conservation of om great nation. I support the Bill but before 1 conclude my remarks I should like to pay a tribute to those who work in this service which has certainly come of age in the last few years. Our mapping services are indeed second to very few countries and possibly there would be only one or two nations which would have finer government operated mapping services.

Mr GRASSBY:
Riverina (9.35

– I want to associate myself particularly with the remarks of the honourable member for Dawson (Dr Patterson) in the first instance and the honourable member for Cook (Mr Dobie) in the second instance in relation to the delay in bringing forward this Bill. There has been a year’s delay. This delay touches on the fundamental development of the nation - the planning for national development. In the year that this measure has been upon the table and we have not been able to get around to dealing with it we have had a wonderful debate on flags of various types that occupied our attention for more than 2 days. We also had a discussion on the conscience of various honourable members of this House. We had a day’s debate on somebody’s passport. There was a tremendous amount of trivia but we did not have this measure before us. I echo the protests entered about this delay. It seems to me to be rather sad that the priority accorded to national development by the Government in relation to the Parliament is that it comes after the greatest and most monumental pieces of trivia we have had before us in the last year. 1 wanted to make that point plain and to support the observations made in that way. I also have every sympathy with the expressions of concern for those who have been waiting for protection and compensation planned in this Bill.

I want to deal with the overall meaning of the delay and the overall attitude to this basic tool of national development. This Bill is designed to produce the raw material of decisions on national development. I realise that the Minister for National Development (Mr Swartz) presented to Cabinet a year ago a document which was designed to be the basis of an overall national plan for development. It has not got very far in 12 months.

The Opposition joins with the Government to ensure that this Bill will go through. But of course the overall national development plan which is the blueprint for the future has not got very far at all. My questions on the notice paper suggest that there is no great enthusiasm for planning the future of this nation in an orderly and progressive manner. I suppose that I should not be surprised that there has been a year’s delay. However, this is one small step forward. We need this raw data in order to make the decisions which must be made in relation to national planning.

The Minister referred in his second reading speech to the fact that as maps have become available they have been used in assessing Australia’s resources in minerals, water and forests, for many administrative purposes and for broad planning and general development planning. I have used the Minister’s terminology. lt is true that these resource maps are the raw materia] for decisions in many respects and in many spheres. It is indicated that the data that is collected by the Department of National Development is integrated with the data provided by the Bureau of Mineral Resources and the Water, Power and Geographic Branch. The Minister also referred to the fact that that branch arranges primarily through State authorities for the recording of statistics on surface and underground water.

In relation to the various resources there is one omission from the Minister’s second reading speech and I would like to direct attention to it. If we are to have a series of resource maps those maps should also cover soils, including their type and recommended utilisation. There are many reasons for this but I do not want to go into all of them at this stage. I think that those of us who are concerned with irrigation development and land development generally will recognise the fundamental importance of soil maps and the data that should be integrated with any set of national maps or charts. There was no reference at all in the Minister’s second reading speech to this very important aspect of data. I agree with all of the other matters that have been referred to including the mineral resource matters and topography. We must know our topography; surely that is basic.

References were made to geological and geophysical surveys and to the fact that the data from these surveys would be integrated in the maps which are to be produced by the Department of National Development. This is all to the good but I direct attention to the omission in relation to soil maps and I do so deliberately because matters touching on the science of soil involve dramatic developments in understanding the qualities of soil and its uses for many different purposes. I could give examples. I do not think that I should do so. They would be technical matters which perhaps would not be relevant to a second reading speech on a measure of this kind. But I would draw attention to the fact that in the State departments - I cite the New South Wales Department of Agriculture and the Water Conservation and Irrigation Commission - and also in the Division of Soils of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation in recent times - indeed in the 12 months in which no action has been taken on this matter - there has been a considerable addition of data and information which should be related to any basic production of maps of resources of the nation.

I would like to draw attention to this omission because, irrespective of passing difficulties that might be associated with the rural sector and irrespective of the almost casual criticisms that have been made of irrigation development, the rural sector will continue to develop and expand and irrigation will prove to be the fundamental bastion of primary production in the future of this continent where drought is endemic. So I draw attention particularly to the need to integrate the data contained in the maps which are being produced with the data which is currently being assembled and evaluated by the various State departments. I repeat that the year’s delay in this matter is reprehensible and is a matter for condemnation. When we have been called upon to deal with so much trivia at such great length it disturbs me deeply to find that an important measure of this kind has been put at the end of the queue.

I would certainly join with my colleague, the honourable member for Dawson, in supporting the measure. I express the hope that the omission to which I have referred will be made the subject of action with the appropriate State agencies to ensure that any issue by the department of basic data is as valid as it can be with the state of knowledge that we have at the present time. I would also express the hope that the data which will be contained in the maps that are being produced and in the reports that are being compiled will provide the raw material for national planning. I look forward to the day when the Minister comes into the chamber and says: ‘I now have the honour of tabling a national development programme so that Parliament may debate it and come up with its combined opinion, in its wisdom or otherwise’. 1 gather that the Minister has certainly set out to do this. We have not yet got it. The delay in that regard is continuing, but at least we have overcome one of the hurdles in this measure.

Mr Luchetti:

– We need a change of government.

Mr GRASSBY:

– That would be wonderful. That would be very healthy indeed. I say to the honourable member for Macquarie (Mr Luchetti) that I hope that we would not have to change the government just because there was incredible sloth in such a measure as this. I would hope that in the 18 months remaining we will see some action in regard to the development of the nation.

Dr SOLOMON:
Denison

– J rise to emphasise the importance of the activity which lies behind this Bill. The Bill refers to very narrow activities indeed. For that reason I cannot help but remark that the honourable member for Dawson (Dr Patterson), the honourable member for Cook (Mr Dobie) and the honourable member for Riverina (Mr Grassby) have fallen into pit into which I am about to follow them, I imagine, of talking more widely than the field covered by the Bill. Nevertheless, because the activities are so important and because I have had more than a peripheral association with some of them over past years I would like to take this opportunity to refer to what 1 believe to be the considerable importance of this form of activity, an importance which I think is not recognised by the man in the street. The very considerable range of uses to which maps of one sort or another are put is not recognised, I think, by most people although they might use one or two of the particular forms of maps into which the base maps that we are talking about here are developed.

The honourable member for Riverina has regretted the apparent lack of rapidity in the production of soil maps, but I think he should do so in the context of the vast array of maps which it is possible to produce. One could run through a list of twenty or thirty in terms of land capability, land utilisation, forest resources, water resources, ground water and so on. Basically speaking, what the honourable member should be thinking of and what I would like to outline is merely this: In those countries, notably the European ones, where there is a long tradition dating back several centuries in one or two cases, of national mapping it is a continuous - not continual - process by which the nation is covered at one scale or another and by which the technology of doing so is constantly improved. The country having been covered by a particular scale of map. it is then covered progressively either on the same scale or by a revised version. So we find countries like the United Kingdom and Switzerland with their seventh, eighth and ninth revised series of I inch to the mile or 1 to 100.000 national maps or productions of that order.

As the Minister for National Development (Mr Swartz) pointed out in his second reading speech, here we finally covered our considerable area in 1968. I think at the scale of 1 to 250,000. The Minister covered just about everything relating to this issue. He told us that the next part of the programme was to proceed to a 1 to 100,000 scale coverage with 20 metre contour intervals of the national area. As the honourable member for Dawson said, the second half of the National Mapping Division’s major programme concerns the bathymetric maps, the off-shore maps covering water bodies and reefs contained therein. In that regard it is true to say that some of the bathymetric maps - I do not know what proportion of them as 1 am not familiar with this field - date roughly from the 1870s to the 1880s and are in the process of substantial revision now for the first time since then. I do not want to go at length into the question of what we can do in the process of national mapping. I wish to emphasise that it is an extraordinarily important facet of our national development. People have said that before me. Only those who have attempted to deal with things in space - to look at them in their physical sense, to look at their soils or their productivity capacity, or to look at the demographic situation - without having access to a map of the area properly drawn up and totally dependable, or at least very substantially dependable in terms of its accuracy, will realise just how difficult it is to proceed with that sort df work. This has been the case in parts of Australia for quite some time.

The Division of National Mapping and people such as Trevor Plumb are doing an extraordinarily important piece of work. The land research people in the CSIRO have drawn up considerable surveys of large parts of the Northern Territory in particular and also of some of the other interior areas of Australia and elsewhere. Those reports, in their fairly distinctive orange covers, are worth reading by those who are interested, such as the honourable member for Riverina, in regard to land capacity and the physical accuracy of particular elements in an area under notice. It is true to say that despite the vast advances which have been made in the last few decades in aerial photography and associated technology - notably in photogrammetry - and also in some more complex processes with which I am not familiar in any sense at all, it is still necessary to tie the mapping programme to the earth’s surface. In fact that is the purpose of this Bill to which I shall definitely return.

The purpose of the Bill is to empower the Minister for National Development to authorise survey parties to enter land, carry out mapping surveys, put survey marks on the ground when necessary and do certain limited clearing and so on. The Bill provides for compensation for loss or damage to property as a result of those incursions and also prohibits the unlawful damage or destruction or removal of the marks put there for the purposes of survey by the Commonwealth teams. Really this is all we are concerned with seeing put into operation. Despite the fact that I have joined with honourable members who have preceded me in this debate in taking note of the importance of this activity in general, I cannot but think in view of the importance of some of the legislation that has been before us in the past year or so their specific attention to the fact that it has taken the better part of a year to get this small Bill through is something like crocodile tears. I think it is highly unlikely that the programme of national mapping has in any significant way been held up as a result of this Bill not being passed. If I am wrong no doubt someone will draw my attention to it in due course.

It remains only for me to say that despite the fact that the national mapping programme seems really in more than one sense to have got off the ground, this will be something to which the attention of this Parliament will be drawn with increasing frequency because, as I said earlier, any country which is attempting to develop itself in anything like the way in which this country is - the record in national development of others which have gone before us stands clearly - will find itself increasingly with a need to develop its mapping programmes. Once having covered the area of the country it will be found that there is at least as much reason for covering it again on a larger scale and in more detail with advanced symbolism and more precision, so that we get the nearest thing possible to rendering a part of the earth’s surface onto a 2-dimensional piece of paper, thereby enabling us to find our way around and read all sorts of things, if we are expert, about what the area consists of. I too commend this Bill, whether it is belated or otherwise, to the House.

Mr WENTWORTH:
Minister for Social Services · Mackellar · LP

– I would like to thank honourable members on both sides of the House for the reception they have given this Bill and the constructive comments they have made. There are only one or two fairly brief points I would like to make in reply. Firstly, the delay in regard to this Bill was due to the heavy legislative programme which, as honourable members very well know, has occupied the House during the past 12 months and more. Secondly, the honourable member for Denison (Dr Solomon) is absolutely right in saying that there has been no impeding of the mapping programme by reason of the failure to pass this Bill into law. 1 am glad to say there has been cooperation from landowners and Australians generally in this very forward and valuable programme. I am informed there are no possible claims against a survey officer or possible claims by a landowner outstanding. For that reason no question of retrospectivity need be considered although, of course, if there were any such claims undoubtedly it would be considered.

The only other point which was raised was in regard to soil survey. I am sure the comments of the honourable member for Riverina (Mr Grassby) were well intentioned but perhaps he had not done his homework as well as he should. The Department of National Development in fact does produce a soils map in its atlas. Clause (h) under the definition ‘survey’ which refers to the survey of the earth’s natural resources does cover this. There is one other practical point andI think on reflection he should realise how important it is. Soil surveys cannot be too generalised because conditions differ from one paddock to another paddock. It is important that not only the surface but the subsurface be delineated. These maps are probably very detailed and relate to relatively small and productive areas such as an irrigation area. Therefore, they do not quite fit into the same general pattern but the Government does realise their importance and it is proceeding with its programme. In point of fact the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, as the honourable member himself mentioned, has some special interest in and facilities for doing this. The Government, I can assure the House, has not underestimated the practical importance of this. May I again thank the House for the constructive and helpful reception which it has given this Bill.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

Third Reading

Leave granted for third reading to be moved forthwith.

Bill (on motion by Mr Wentworlli) read a third time.

page 181

ADJOURNMENT

Law and Order - Public Communication with Parliamentarians

Motion (by Mr Hunt) proposed:

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr UREN:
Reid

– On 18th September at Wynyard Park, Sydney, I addressed a large gathering of demonstrators opposing the war in Vietnam. The meeting was in support of the Vietnam Moratorium Campaign. At the cessation of the speeches the moratorium marchers filed out of the park, made their way to George Street, then south towards the Town Hall. The marchers were only permitted to walk on the footpath. They were not permitted to proceed up George Street beyond King Street. Police diverted them off George Street in an easterly direction up the northern side of King Street. I participated in the march and at the corner of King and George Streets I was manhandled and assaulted by a police constable bearing the number 3136. I was not injured physically in any way. That was not what disturbed me most. It was the manner and attitude of the constable. I sought legal advice and was advised there were two types of action I could follow. One was a civil remedy for assault, a claim for an amount of damages to vindicate the situation. This would involve one’s only having to prove the cause on the balance of probabilities. The second was to lay an information of common assault, which is a criminal action. I was advised that the latter was difficult to establish because one has to prove the assault beyond reasonable doubt. Criminal charges, unlike civil cases, have to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. The House will understand my reluctance to follow the first proposal. It is aware of my long struggles in the courts in those types of cases.

On Monday, 21st September 1970, I took out a summons against Constable 3136. In the court it was interestingto note that the police were not prepared to identify Constable 3136. That was my task but I was able to do so even though he was in plain clothes sitting with about 5 or 6 constables of similar colouring, age and features. The case was heard scattered over 3 days in the Central Court of Petty Sessions before Mr Lewer, stipendiary magistrate, and his judgment was given on 5th January 1971. He dismissed the charge of assault and said:

  1. . The matter is not established beyond reasonable doubt.

Mr Day from the New South Wales Crown Solicitor’s Office, representing Constable 3136, who was actually being instructed by a senior police officer, sought that I should pay the costs. The magistrate said to counsel for the police:

I wish you would not press your request.

My counsel, Mr Staples, argued the principle against forcing me to pay the costs. Counsel for the police insisted and the magistrate ordered me to pay $80 costs, in default 40 days hard labour. I said in court: ‘I won’t pay the fine - I’ll do the hard labour.’ Mr Speaker, there are certain principles involved. Firstly, I was assaulted by Constable 3136. He knows that he assaulted me even though he denied under oath ever meeting me before the court proceedings. Inspector Beath, the InspectorinCharge of the Petersham Police Station, knows that Constable 3136 assaulted me. It was Inspector Beath who approached a person of some political influence to ask me to pull off. He even advised me how I could conform and not lose face. Inspector Beath’s emissary said that the policeman was only a young probationary constable. He said that the constable would not have pushed me around if he had known who I was. There was other evidence available from a retired railway worker, but he was too fearful to give evidence. He feared that the police may press issues against two of his sons.

Secondly, I refer to the extent to which a. senior - even a very high - officer within the Police Department will lie or allow the issue to be clouded in order to protect the police system. One of Mr Day’s utterances on behalf of the police was that he called demonstrators against the war in Vietnam cowardly dogs’. It would be interesting to know who granted permission to have such an utterance deleted from the court transcript. Mr Day’s address makes interesting reading. It clearly identifies the thinking and attitude of a section of the New South

Wales police. I did not bring this action out of malice against the police. My view was, and still is, that the police should help people, not brutalise them.

Thirdly, I will not pay the fine. A law which threatens people with punishment if they dare to take their grievances to court is an unjust law. It intimidates people into not making criticism of public officials. The money awarded is called costs but in reality it is a fine. It is not paid to the defendant policeman; it is paid into Consolidated Revenue. The law in this respect reeks of inequality. In our courts of petty sessions, which handle police work, there is no genuine equality. Policeman have more equality than citizens. They have far greater rights than any citizen. If the defendant police officer in my case had charged me with assault and had failed to prove his case he would not have been required to pay my costs; he would not be threatened with a gaol sentence. My case was commenced in the public interest. My refusal to pay the fine is in the public interest. To threaten a man with gaol when he has broken no law is a stupid law, and the sentence of 40 days hard labour for failure to pay a $80 fine is a stupid law.

Fourthly, my going to gaol is also against the law as it was described by Mr Lewer, S.M. I am not challenging his version; legal men may do that if need be. Mr Lewer, in his judgment, had this to say:

  1. . there is no guaranteed right of either free assembly or free speech in common law countries. This very often surprises people who believe their school history books. Nonetheless that is the legal situation.

I hope that my going to gaol might encourage just a few people to get off their tails. I hope it might stir them long enough to challenge the establishment of such laws. I hope that people will examine and think about such restrictive laws in our socalled free society. Mr Lewer, in his judgment, dealt with the definition of an unlawful assembly, andI shall quote that part of the judgment. It is as follows:

An unlawful assembly is an assembly of three or more persons with intent either to commit a crime . . .

The magistrate decided not to determine whether the Moratorium march on 18th September was ‘an unlawful assembly’. He was content to say that there were inferences available to suggest that it might properly be held to be an unlawful assembly. But the magistrate did say:

  1. . I should think beyond any doubt the police are entitled to put an end to a procession, a meeting, or a gathering if they apprehend, notwithstanding its lawful nature . . .

He went on to say:

They- meaning the police - may take quite severe steps to set an end to an unlawful assembly.

In order to indicate that I have not mis interpreted Mr Lewer’s judgment, with the concurrence of honourable members I incorporate his judgment in Hansard.

BENCH. There is no evidence before me that I am prepared to pay any attention to of perjury by anybody, nor can 1 see any suggestion of any criminal conspiracy to pervert the ends of public justice, and if I did I would not need any urging to send the papers to the Attorney-General.

I have before me an Information exhibited by Thomas Uren against the defendant Constable of Police No. 3136 and this in the event turns out to be a Constable Girardi. The Information, exhibited under the Provisions of Division 2 of Part 4 of the Justices Act, alleges an assault contrary to Section 493 of the Crimes Act on 18th September 1970 at Sydney.

The first thing to observe 1 should think is this, there are at least two different kinds of remedy for assault. One. a civil remedy for assault, is a tort, and in former times at any event that was the usual means employed when a person who claimed to have been assaulted wished to vindicate his situation, and in the more picturesque language of last century he presented his wounded pride for the salve of damages, but the important thing to notice about that kind of remedy for assault is that the plaintiff may succeed, upon establishing his case, on the balance of the probabilities. The Action here before me is not so simple, the case must be established beyond reasonable doubt, as our criminal lawwisely holds, and before 1 turn to a consideration of the facts, which in my view are very simple, notwithstanding the fairly extravagant addresses with which 1 have been favoured, extravagant and lengthy one might say in one case or another, and I leave them until last.

Now without going into the matter at any great length it is quite clear that the keeping of public order would not be possible without the exertion from time to time upon the lieges of some degree of physical force, and the most succinct exposition of the situation in relation to this is probably found in Chapter 38 of Wade and Hood-Phillips Constitutional Law’, and because some of what is written in that book is very apt for this case I propose to read. At page 525 the learned authors have pointed out there is no guaranteed right of either free assembly or free speech in common law countries. This very often surprises people who believe their school history books. None the less that is the legal situation. The authors go on to speak of Police powers and I now read: ‘Nevertheless there remains what has been called the public nuisance aspect which may result from freedom to speak. . . . ‘ Thenthe learned authors go on to deal with some other interesting aspects of that law there.

Now it is probably that the definition of an unlawful assembly is well known but in case it is not there is no harm in considering it. Halsbury Third Edition, paragraph 89. ‘An unlawful assembly is an assembly of three or more persons with intent either to commit a crime . . . consequence of it’. I should think it trite learning to go on to say that the dispersal of an unlawful assembly is a duty cast by the common law upon every citizen, a fortiori upon every police constable.

Now I do not want to go back to the 16th century, but there is a fairly modern illustration of the kind of situation the law has thus far, common law I mean, been able to deal with. 1 refer to Duncan v. Jones which is variously reported and may be found in 1936 1 Kings Bench 218. or as I read from the 1935 Aft England Reprints at 710. Now it was proposed by some well intentioned folk in this case to hold a meeting in 9 Head Street, New Crosse, London near the entrance to an unemployed training centre situated in that street and to that end a notice was supplied which read, and it is an interesting cue, this was July 30th 1934, and it still has a typical ring about it, ‘Sedition’.’Particulars of the meeting .. . National Unemployment Workers Union”. At the foot of the Notice is defined a right of free speech and public meeting. The Police Inspector told Duncan to desist from holding the meeting. Duncan declined so to do and set about giving an oration to the standers-by and was arrested and charged with obstructing the police, convicted, and from that he appealed to a Court which consisted of Lord Hewitt the Chief Justice, his Lordship Mr Justice Humphries, and his Lordship Mr Justice Singleton, and it may be well known that Chief Justice was a well known champion of liberties, civil and otherwise. The Judgment is interesting, especially because it overrules Beattie v. Gilbanks insofar as Beattie v. Gilbanks says the police may not step in to prevent breaches of the peace even if they are required to put an end to otherwise lawful activity, which is something not sufficiently understood. 1 do not want to appear to be school masterish about it, but it ought to be understood and there would be less trouble in the city.

The case may be thought to establish I should think beyond any doubt the police are entitled to put an end to a procession, a meeting, or a gathering if they apprehend, notwithstanding its lawful nature, if they reasonably apprehend that there will be a breach of the peace in consequence of it, a fortiori I should say, they may take quite severe steps to set an end to an unlawful assembly. 1 am not going to decide whether or not the procession from Wynyard Park to somewhere up King Street was an unlawful assembly or not. I am content to say that there are inferences available in the evidence from which it might properly be held if it were necessary that it was an unlawful assembly. I merely point to one or two matters of which there is evidence and they are the cries of ‘fascist pigs’, and rather delightfully down with imperialism’, and ‘stop the war’. Superintendent Wells has said from his observations he apprehended a breach of the peace and I should think the Court might properly hold that he was a person of reasonable courage and firmness. As I am saying they are the legal earmarks of the gathering at the corner of King and George Street of an unlawful assembly.

Now there are one or two other matters of law which I wish to advert to. In situations of this kind of lawless nature without doubt fears and apprehensions are excited and prejudices and emotions aroused and these are in the times when one may not expect equally clear judgments and calm from any of the participants. So that one is not to bring a milligram weight and a chemical balance when weighing up whether the force used was reasonable or not and indeed it has been held that a very large amount of force is permissible if a very large amount of resistance is met with. That wasn’t the case here in any event.

Why I have mentioned these things is this, if 1 accept the Informant’s evidence in toto, and 1 do not, but on the other hand it is not to be thought from that that I regard him as a teller of any untruths for I am certain he did his best to tell me the whole truth within the limits of his memory and obviously he would then be making observations, but even if I accept his case in toto rs it fell from him in chief, he has a very considerable legal difficulty ahead of him to establish that what the constable did was an application, by his story, was the application of unreasonable force. Again 1 accept him entirely here. I can safely believe him when he tells me that he was himself proceeding in a most law abiding and untumultous fashion up George Street and through to wherever he went and exhorting those about him to be peaceful and unprovocative. 1 don’t think this helps him knowing, if anything, he was part of a body which apparently did wholey prescribe to the same motives and indications.

Now the facts as they may be defined from the evidence, and I do not intend to go through the whole lot of them, I am not obliged to do it because the Court does not deal with each tiny bil of fact or law argued before it. This is not to be taken that the Court has paid no attention to it, but in brief the inference is this, that when some distance travelling from west to east on the northern boundary of the King Street/George Street intersection he was pushed with no small degree of force back on to the curb by a man whom he says is the defendant, Constable Girardi When he again set off in the same direction about the middle of George Street he was roughly seized by the Constable and later on he was heavily pushed in the back by the Constable and he says that on each of these occasions he was able to identify his assailant as the defendant Constable and to some extent, some limited extent, he is corroborated by a Mr Anderson. Concerning him, I reject any suggestion of perjury. 1 have already, I think, pointed out that it is not possible to make detailed observations in crowds in these circumstances, but the gravamen of Mr Anderson’s corroboration, not really legal corroboration because legal corrobation is defined, as independent evidence of the commission of a crime and that the defendant committed it, and of course Mr Anderson’s testimony does not implicate the defendant Constable as such. He says a Constable violently, sufficient to say, collided with the Informant with some force.

Now the defendant’s case is that he does not know the Informant, he had not seen him before he came to Court, he did not participate in any such incidents, all he was doing was controlling a very large crowd with a considerable number of other police.

Superintendent Wells says that he had the stream of demonstrators as they have been called in the case who were proceeding alternately with north and south vehicular traffic in George Street in the same direction as the defendant. He had them under close observation. He claims to have seen the Informant writing on something. He says he did not see what the Informant describes and that he would have had it happened, and it is urged upon me that he was very concerned to make sure that no breaches of the peace occurred.

As well the defendant calls Sergeant McCoy, Constable Marizouk, and Constable Meredith, all who were assigned to the same duty as the defendant Constable, although they did not have the defendant Constable under observation for the whole of the demonstration, rather thai this activity took place. Each of them says that when they did have the defendant Constable under observation he was not doing anything like thai. Inspector Bottles evidence seems to me of faint relevance and I do not propose to trouble myself to explore that particular blind avenue as 1 see it. I am not concerned with the Informant’s conversation with Assistant Commissioner Newman or the content of it, it assists me very little as to credit. Quite clearly there was ample opportunity for all concerned sincerely to be mistaken in what they thought they saw and heard.

Now there is nothing external in the evidence forthcoming from either side to enable me to say positively either side is not telling the truth. It is true that there is a certain amount of disrelation between the Informant’s account and the account of his witness Mr Anderson and this is to be expected. 1 am quite sure had I taken the trouble, I could find discrepancies somewhere or other in the testimonies of the various police. In the circumstances it is clearly to be expected. The short point is this that where each of two accounts conflict, that where there is nothing extraneous that induces me to say with some conviction strictly beyond reasonable doubt which version is correct, then I must clearly say that the matter is not established beyond reasonable doubt and that as I understand in the beginning was the onus the prosecution carried, I reiterate very briefly, put at its highest what the Informant sought to establish or part of what he sought to establish, namely the unlawfulness of the assault upon him would be very difficult to establish in the circumstances, but in any event there being no external indicia as to which version, that is to say the Informant’s or the Defendant’s is correct there must obviously be a reasonable doubt for the Court and the Information is therefore dismissed.

Mr Day asks for costs.

Mr Staples addresses on costs.

Defendant ordered to pay costs $80.00. In default 40 days hard labour. Allowed 3 months to pay.

I ask the House: Where are we headed? Once we step outside of conformism we have no rights - no freedom of speech and no freedom of assembly. One could ask: Are we really free? We have a sickness in our police force in New South Wales. Our law is sick. We should start to examine the question: How sick is bur society?

Dr J F Cairns:
LALOR, VICTORIA · ALP

- Mr Speaker, this is a story of the deep south. The Draft Resisters Union wore beards. But many others wore beards too at Anglesea and Aireys Inlet. It has not so far been thought dangerous to wear a beard at Anglesea or Aireys Inlet - in fact, a few of the residents wear beards. But no-one has ever talked in public, at Anglesea or Aireys Inlet, about conscription and the Vietnam war, and when it was found that the Anglesea ranger had given his consent for the draft resisters to put up a screen and show films about demonstrations and the war, it was suddenly realised that Anglesea might never be the same again.

The officer of police spoke to the sergeant, and the sergeant spoke to the ranger and permission was withdrawn, but not until the draft resisters had set up their screen in the Anglesea caravan park. But now 2 carloads of police, apparently not needed to deal with the unbalanced drivers on the roads or with brawls or housebreaking, descended on the quiet audience straining their eyes to see on the screen the faint images of Chicago police behaving like stormtroopers. No inquiry was made. The police just went into action. The screen was pulled down and the power leads were torn out. The thing had to stop. This, in the deep south, was subversion and sin.

So days later the draft resisters went to Aireys Inlet. The draft resisters were given permission to use the local public hall and they paid their $15 rent. But once more the underground went into action. The police officer spoke to the sergeant and the sergeant spoke to the Barrabool councillor, and the councillor and the police barred the door of the public hall and told the draft resisters that they could not ‘sing that kind of music’ at Aireys Inlet. So several days later the draft resisters went on to Lorne. But the Chairman of the Foreshore Committee said: ‘No, those draft resisters are not coming to Lorne.’ He told the

Melbourne ‘Herald’ reporter: They’re extremists. They stand for peace. They endanger Australia.’ So By-law 8 (N and L) was invoked.

This by-law says that no-one shall speak, sing, pray, play music, assemble or enter into a discussion on the foreshore without the permission of the Foreshore Committee. As the magistrate said in the case of the honourable member for Reid v. Constable Girardi

  1. . there is no guaranteed right of either free assembly or free speech in common law countries. This very often surprises people who believe their school history books.

But on 23rd January the draft resisters arrived and set up their screen and their public address system on the foreshore at Lorne. Soon after a member of parliament began to speak. He said that the by-law seemed to have been designed to prevent unreasonable obstruction, noise or nuisance, but that it was being used to prevent people from speaking their point of view. The police arrived, then the Chairman of the Foreshore Committee arrived, but they did nothing. The member of parliament went on speaking, but finally running out of ideas he said it was strange that the police and the Foreshore Committee had taken no action. Then he handed the microphone to Harry Van Moorst of the Students for a Democratic Society. Harry is small. He has a beard and long hair. He is the ideal kind of person to arrest, and although the member of Parliament had spoken for 15 minutes and Harry had spoken no more than 100 words he was suddenly grabbed by 2 athletic policemen and dragged roughly away from the microphone. Having arrested him, the policeman dragged him behind some motor vehicles and asked him to give his name and address which, when he refused to do so, gave the constables the legal right they needed for the arrest that they had, without any right, made some minutes before.

With the microphone now dangling idly in the evening air, the member for Parliament picked it up and said how strange it was that he could give a public address on it and not be interfered with by the police but Harry could speak only 100 words, be roughly arrested and dragged to the cage van and locked up like a stray ddg. Was it because Harry was a student who had long hair and a beard whereas the member of Parliament had short hair, as I remind honourable members? There was a difference. After the member of Parliament had finished speaking the second time, the senior constable and the Chairman of the Foreshore Committee came up to him and the senior constable said: ‘Very sorry, Sir, but you have given a public address contrary to by-law 8 (L and F) and it will be reported to my superior officers.’ The member of Parliament said: I should think so after the way you have handled Harry Van Moorst. lt was not long before Harry Van M oorst was before the Lorne Court of Petty Sessions. Here the magistrate agreed wilh the counsel employed by the Crown for this very important case. ‘The law never discriminates,’ said the magistrate. The member of Parliament gave evidence. He said that be had given a public address and no action had been taken against him. He said that the police evidence against Harry Van Moorst was not correct and that Harry had been arrested without any right of the constables to do so. But the magistrate said that the law had to be upheld. So Van Moorst was found guilty and fined $10. And so the police were once more told by the court that the truth does not really matter when evidence is given. They were told by the court: ‘Bring along before us all these students with long hair and beards and together we will teach them a lesson.’ But the police and the magistrate since 23rd January have had 24 days in which to take action against the member of Parliament and against a Leader of the Opposition who also made a public address at Lorne on 23rd January. But no action has been taken.

The law never discriminates! The deep south had spoken, lt is not only part of our geography; it is part of our common law. This story of the deep south in Australia is only one example of many. What it shows, of course, is that in Australia there is one law for some people and a totally different law for others. There is one law for young, long-haired persons who will have listed against them convictions that will be a disadvantage for them throughout their lives, and another law for so-called important people like members of Parliament and other important people who would not be convicted in similar circumstances or even spoken to if it were known beforehand who they were.

This story shows also that prosecution is often based on careless inaccuracies and sometimes straight out lies. Lies are often told in courts and in many cases magistrates are incapable even of doubting prosecution evidence no matter how improbable it is. The position is so bad that no-one of radical appearance or demeanour can assume that he will even be treated as a person, let alone get justice, in many Australian courts. It is no wonder that tens of thousands of young people have no confidence in courts or other authorities in Australia today and this situation will not be changed by trying to change them. It can be changed only if those applying the la.w at lower levels can become more truthful and fair minded, because it is they who have understandably lost the confidence of most of those with whom they deal.

Mr FOSTER:
Sturt

– This evening I want to raise a matter concerning the Prime Minister’s office. Unfortunately the Prime Minister (Mr Gorton) is not in the chamber. He was here during the course of the day, and last night he made a brief visit to make a ministerial statement. The matter I raise concerns the availability to citizens of Australia, particularly elderly citizens, of means of communicating with members of the Parliament - on this occasion no other than the Prime Minister 1 have not met the elderly person concerned in this incident. My information has been obtained from the South Australian Premiers Department. A letter from the South Australian Premier was directed to the Minister for Social Services (Mr Wentworth) who is now sitting at the Table. It concerned social service benefits. However the elderly gentleman saw fit to address a letter to the Prime Minister. He correctly addressed it: ‘The Right Honourable Mr John Gorton, Prime Minister of Australia, Parliament House, Canberra, ACT 2600’. To ensure that it was delivered and that the Prime Minister received it he registered this article of mail. No doubt if postal workers had been on strike at. that particular time we would have heard the Prime Minister, some of his ministers and members of the Government Parties criticising them, but there was no such occurrence to delay the delivery of this piece of mail, lt arrived in Canberra.

The letter carries about a dozen franking marks, 2 if not 3 of which are the Parliamentary Post Office franking mark, lt indicates also that the Prime Minister’s office was made aware by the Parliamentary Post Office in this building on, I think, 30th November, 15th December and 1 7th December that the letter was here. On Monday last I broke my spectacles and it may be that those dates are not quite correct. However, nobody seems to know the Prime Minister - at least for the purpose of collecting this piece of correspondence. I would be interested later if the Minister for Social Services would inform me whether he received correspondence in his Department about this elderly gentleman’s problem.

My main reason for rising is to criticise the fact that although a member of the public - in this particular case an elderly person - has taken the opportunity of writing to the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister’s office has not had the decency, honesty or respect to acquire that letter from the Post Office. It lay in this place for about 2 months and was then returned to the elderly gentleman. It had not been opened by the Prime Minister’s office. Although the letter appears as though it could have been opened I doubt whether it has been because the card accompanying the returned letter indicates that it had not been accepted. 1 am prepared to hand this letter to the Prime Minister’s staff tomorrow morning if they are prepared to treat this matter as the citizen intended it should be treated when he posted the letter. In the meantime I will hold the letter in the interests of the person who wrote it. I assure the Prime Minister and anyone on his staff that there is nothing dangerous in it. I am sure that the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation will not be looking over his shoulder if the Prime Minister signs a document authorising the release of the letter to his office so that it can be properly and adequately dealt with. He can rest assured that if he puts his signature to a document to acquire that letter that document will not be misused, misrepresented, or misquoted.

The crux of the matter is that the Prime Minister or his staff ought not adopt the attitude which they adopted in this case. I know that from time to time the Prime Minister would receive some correspondence that he did not want to receive. However, that goes along with the responsibilities of his office. The Prime Minister, of course, should not be suspicious of the fact that there is a registered letter for him in the parliamentary Post Office. He ought not to brush it off so lightly.

Dr J F Cairns:
LALOR, VICTORIA · ALP

– Was it returned marked ‘addressee not known’?

Mr FOSTER:

– Apparently the Prime Minister of the country is not known. So far as this gentleman is concerned he is non-existent. No doubt as a result of the treatment that has been accorded to this person he does not want to know the Prime Minister anyway. 1 am concerned that the Prime Minister’s Department or the Prime Minister’s office will accept this letter on behalf of a citizen of the Commonwealth and will pay some attention to its contents. I hope to goodness that in future there is never another case such as this one drawn to my attention to show that the Prime Minister’s office or Department has dealt with a person in this manner.

Mr WENTWORTH:
Minister for Social Services · Mackellar · LP

-! think I should draw the attention of the House to the curious parallelism between the attitudes of the honourable member for Reid (Mr Uren) and the honourable member for Lalor (Dr J. F. Cairns) tonight. Both of them seemed to be concentrating on breaking down authority and denigrating the courts. I think perhaps that they might even have gone outside Standing Orders in so doing.

Mr SPEAKER:

-Order! That is a reflection on the Chair and 1 suggest that the Minister withdraw it. As a matter of fact I listened to the debate extremely carefully and I want to assure the House that that was not so.

Mr Uren:

– Did you ask the Minister to withdraw his remark?

Mr WENTWORTH:

– Yes, certainly I withdraw it. It may well be that they have some kind of desire to break down all con- stituted authority. Indeed, the honourable member for Lalor has set his name to a proposal saying that authority should not be in the Parliament and, 1 think, in the courts; he has said that it has to be in the streets and so on. This is the kind of disorder which both honourable members are sponsoring.

I listened with some regret to what I thought was an abuse of parliamentary privilege by the honourable member for Reid. He has parliamentary privilege which isa great privilege and should not be used, I think, for personal advantage and in a personal matter. The honourable member said things in this place under privilege about 2 police officers.I do not know anything about the truth of his allegations or the truth of their evidence. But I think it is improper that in a personal matter like this an honourable member should get up and use -I would almost say abuse - his parliamentary privilege to call people who differ with him outside of the House names of this character in a matter, as I have said, in which he is personally concerned. If he were acting on behalf of someone else perhaps it would be different.I think it is a little mean for the honourable member to use parliamentary privilege for his own advantage and in his own cause against other people in the way that he did in this place tonight.

At the beginning of my speechI said that there was a parallelism between what the 2 honourable members had done. It is said that parallel lines do not meet. However, sometimes they diverge. In this instance there is a divergence which I think might be brought to the notice of the House. The honourable member for Reid has said - I do not know for what motive or whether he wants to be a public martyr or not - that he would like to serve his sentence rather than pay his fine. He says that he is willing to stand up and be counted. If my facts are wrong I will be corrected but the honourable member for Lalor was one of the people who signed his name to a published document. When he was interrogated as to whether this printed signature was his real signature, as I understand it he sat mute. He refused to take responsibility. He ran out and he allowed his friends to carry the can for him. He ran out on his mates. If these facts are correct they throw a somewhat curious light upon the protestations of the honourable member for Lalor.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

House adjourned at 10.26p.m.

page 189

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

The following answers to questions upon notice were circulated:

Aboriginals: Leprosy (Question No. 237)

Mr Collard:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Does he accept as part of his responsibility the eradication of leprosy from amongst the Aboriginal people of Australia.
  2. If so, is he satisfied that the Western Australian Government is doing all it should towards that end.
  3. If he is not satisfied, what action has he taken or does he intend to take to bring about a satisfactory and positive method of treatment and control in that Slate.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the hon ourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) The eradication of leprosy amongst Aboriginal people of Australia is seen by the Commonwealth as being within the framework of the general improvement of the health of Aborigines. My Office of Aboriginal Affairs and the Commonwealth Department of Health are planning an Australian wide study of these health problems that will produce a programme to improve the problem areas that we know exist. The modern methods of treatment for leprosy, which are based on home examination and medication, mean that such examinations can be carried out as part of a wider study, and that the treatment can be carried out by the medical staff in the area.

Equal Pay: Nurses (Question No. 460)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that one effect of the Commonwealth’s submissions to the Arbitration Commission on the subject of equal pay has been to produce the result that nursing aides qualify for equal pay because the work is done by both men and women, but that qualified nursing sisters do not qualify for the male wage because their work is regarded as an exclusively female occupation.
  2. If so, will he withdraw the Commonwealth’s opposition to equal pay for work that is essentially or usually performed by females.
Mr Snedden:
Minister for Labour and National Service · BRUCE, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the hon ourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The decision of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission in the Equal Pay Case 1969, was not attributed by the Commission to the submissions of the Commonwealth in those proceedings and cannot be so represented. It is a fact that following upon that decision and in accordance with the principles enunciated by the Commission the Public Service Board applied the equal pay phasing provisions to nursing aides in Commonwealth employment. On the other hand, nursing being a predominantly female occupation it did not meet the criteria specified by the Commission and the equal pay phasing provisions clearly could nol be applied to nurses. The rates of pay for nurses determined at that time by the Board had regard to the prevailing rates in public hospitals in the States and constituted ‘rates for the job’ for application to all employees in that occupation, irrespective of sex. Apart from those in Commonwealth employment, or employed in Commonwealth Territories, nurses and nursing aides come under the awards and determinations of State Tribunals and are not subject to decisions of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission.
  2. The Commonwealth has made it clear that it considers the appropriate authority for determining principles of equal pay for male and female workers is the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission.

Shift Work (Question No. 714)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice: (1.) To what extent has the incidence of shift work increased since 1950.

  1. In which cases has (a) the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission and (b) the Commonwealth Public Service Arbitrator varied an award or determination to permit shift work in an industry or in callings in respect of which shift work was not previously authorised by an award or determination.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Statistics on the incidence of shift work are not available.
  2. Since 1950, the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission and the Commonwealth Public Service Arbitrator have varied the following awards and determinations to permit shift work where it was not previously authorised:

Conciliation and Arbitration: Boards of Reference (Question No. 1089)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Did the President of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission in his 1969 Annual Report pay tribute to the manner in which the boards of reference have succeeded in the conciliating of disputes.
  2. Is it a fact that instances have occurred when employers have refused to accept the decision of a board thus preventing the board from functioning in the particular dispute.
  3. If so, does he favour an amendment of the Act giving boards of reference wider powers.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes. The President of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission at page 21 of his Thirteenth Annual Report said:

The other policy aspect is the continuing use of boards of reference. The success of these boards has been remarkable, and has been reflected in the fact that there are only two or three appeals each year from about a thousand decisions. Boards of reference have become one of the safety valves in our system for the conciliating of disputes in which both parties do participate with signal success.’

  1. 1 am advised that objections are occasionally made by employers and unions to a board of reference hearing a dispute or a matter which would involve the board exercising judicial powers. While section 50 of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act empowers the Commission to confer certain powers and functions upon boards of reference, the Commission cannot, of course, delegate a power or function which it does not itself possess. 1 am advised further that most awards provide for appeals against decisions of boards of reference. However, it is apparent from the extract from the President’s Thirteenth Annual Report quoted in answer to part (1) of the honourable member’s question that appeals are made infrequently.
  2. No. The President has reported the successful operation of boards of reference and 1 do not believe that an occasional objection to the hearing of a dispute or matter by a board or the occasional appeal against a decision of a board would warrant amending the Conciliation and Arbitration Act to to give boards wider powers.

Conciliation and Arbitration Common Rule (Question No. 1213)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Under what section of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act is the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission authorised to make a common rule declaration binding on all (a) employees and (b) employers.
  2. Does such a common rule apply to (a) employees who are not members of the applicant or respondent union and (b) employers who are not otherwise bound by a particular award.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

I am advised as follows: (1.) There is no section of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act which authorises the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission to make a common rule binding on ail (a) employees and (b) employers. However, section 49 (1) provides that the Commission may, if it appears necessary or expedient for the purpose of preventing or settling an industrial dispute with which it is dealing or of preventing further industrial disputes, declare that any term of an award shall, in a Territory of the Commonwealth, be a common rule of any industry in connexion with which the dispute arose.

  1. Yes. subject to any limitation which may be specified in the awards concerned. The application of each common rule declared since 1957 was listed in my answer to question No. 522 (Hansard of 4th June 1970, pages 2888-2891).

Australian Capital Territory: Industrial Claims (Question No. 1253)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that there is a backlog of claims in the Australian Capital Territory awaiting determination by a Conciliation Commissioner.
  2. If so, what is the reason for not having a resident Conciliation Commissioner stationed in the Territory.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) I am advised that as at 15th January 1971 there was no backlog of claims in the Australian Capital Territory awaiting determination by a Commissioner.

Industrial Relations: Lock-outs (Question No. 1537)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that no Judge has ever found an employer guilty of a lock-out under the provisions of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act since its passage in 1904.
  2. If not, what are the names of the employers found guilty of such an offence, and what penalty did the Court impose in each such case.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) My Department is not aware of any instances where an employer has been found guilty of a lock-out under the provisions of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act since its passage in 1904.

Industrial Disputes (Question No. 1539)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

What was the cause of each of the various strikes and disputes which occurred in the 6 months ended 30th June 1970.

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Information on the causes of each of the various strikes and disputes is not tabulated by my Department. The Commonwealth Statistician’s statistics of causes of industrial disputes are presented in aggregate form and are not published for each of the various strikes and disputes. The Statistician has supplied the following statistics for the first 6 months of 1970:

Workers’ Compensation: Migrants (Question No. 1729)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. When did he learn that at the last meeting of the Immigration Ministers the Commonwealth asked the Stales to examine their provisions within Workers’ Compensation Acts, so far as such Acts affected migrants, with a view to reaching uniformity of conditions (Hansard, 1st September 1970, page 821).
  2. Has he learned of any response by any Slate to the Commonwealth’s request.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

See the answer to Question No. 727.

Equal Pay (Question No. 1902)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

Was the policy of the Public Service Board as expressed by its submissions to the Arbitration Commission on the question of equal pay dictated by a policy decision taken by his Department.

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is ‘No’.

Industrial Relations (Question No. 1953)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the recent judgment of Mr Justice Sheehy of the New South Wales Industrial Commission in which the learned judge criticised the victimisation of employees for reasons associated with their union activities.
  2. Does he see any merit in the observations made by Mr Justice Sheehy.
  3. If so, willhe direct that copies of the judgment be supplied to all members of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. and (3) 1 do not consider it would be appropriate for me to comment upon Mr Justice Sheehy’ s observations.

Industrial Relations (Question No. 1955)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that the vast majority of cases taken against employers under section 5 of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act for the reinstatement of employees allegedly victimised for union activities have been dismissed.
  2. If so, will he have these decisions examined with a view to making an appropriate amendment to strengthen that section of the Act in such a way as to ensure that applications for reinstatement cannot be dismissed for what seems to be the specious reasons contained in so many of the past decisions.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) Section 5 of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act provides, inter alia, that an employer shall not dismiss an employee for reasons set out in the section. It also provides that where an employer has been convicted of an offence against the section the Court by which the employer is convicted may direct that the employee be reinstated in his old position or in a similar position.

It is not clear whether the honourable member’s question refers to the reasons given by Courts for refusing to convict or, in cases where a Court has convicted, to reasons given for refusing to reinstate an employee.

If the honourable member will make clear the points on which he desires information I shall endeavour to obtain it for him.

Industrial Relations: Lock-outs (Question No. 1959)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

What is the name of each employer who has been prosecuted and found guilty of a lock-out since the inception of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act in 1904.

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

My Department is not aware of any instances where an employer has been prosecuted and found guilty of a lock-out since the inception of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act in 1904.

Trade Unionists: Status (Question No. 1960)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to a statement by the Minister for Shipping and Transport, when addressing a Country Party Conference at Griffith, on 26th June 1970, that it was the aim of the Government to preserve the status of the many responsible members of the trade unions.
  2. If so, what steps have been taken towards this end.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. The present provisions of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act already afford this facility. My advisers are not aware of any reason to believe that these provisions are inadequate.

Workers’ Compensation: Migrants (Question No. 2015)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

When he furnishes answers to questions Nos 727 and 1729 which 1 placed on the Notice Paper on15th April and 16th September, will he name the States which (a) have laws denying workers’ compensation to overseas dependants of deceased migrants and (b) are introducing amendments to those laws (Hansard, 1st October 1970, page 1991, question No. 860).

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows: See the answer to Question No. 727.

Trade Unions (Question No. 413)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the Commonwealth Industrial Court’s finding that the Conciliation and Arbitration Act and regulations permit the division of a registered union into a caste system that can limit office-holding privilege to a relatively small percentage of the union’s total membership.
  2. If so, is it his intention to retain a law that disqualifies a large percentage of union members from nominating for office in a particular union.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) If the honourable member will supply me with details of the specific finding to which he refer* I will endeavour to provide an answer to his question.

Productivity (Question No. 2091)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Belgium, Taiwan. The Federal Republic of Germany. Israel, Japan, Malta, The Philippines and the United States of America each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross national or domestic product, at market prices, per person employed.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. It appears evident from the honourable member’s questions Nos 2091 to 2116 inclusive that he has been reading the I.L.O. publication Measuring Labour Productivity’ published in 1969. He will, therefore, be aware that the information he has requested is contained in Appendix II therein.
  2. and (3) I refer the honourable member to the answers given to questions Nos 524 (Hansard, 5th May 1970, page 1644), 1821 (Part 1) (Hansard, 27th October 1970, pages 2830-1), 1225 (Hansard, 13th October 1970, page 2064) and 2028 (Hansard. 30th October 1970. page 3168). As indicated in the answers to these questions, there are no regularly published official estimates of labour productivity in Australia, but the Commonwealth Statistician is examining the desirability of compiling and publishing such estimates. In its submissions in recent National Wage hearings, the Commonwealth has provided estimates of the change in Gross National Product at constant prices per person at work.

Productivity (Question No. 2092)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Austria, Canada, Finland, Ireland, Italy and the United Kingdom each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross national or domestic product, at factor cost, per person employed.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2093)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Czechoslovakia has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net national product, at market prices, per person employed.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2094)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether The Federal Republic of Germany, Italy, Norway and the Philippines each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net national or domestic product, at factor cost, per person employed.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2095)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether New Zealand has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of volume of net production per person employed.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2096)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether France has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of final gross production, at market prices, per man-hour.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2097)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Israel and the United States of America each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross national or domestic product, at market prices, per man-hour.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2098)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Canada has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross national or domestic products, at factor cost, per man-hour.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2099)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Italy has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect to net national product, at market prices per man-hour.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2100)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Austria, The Federal Republic of Germany, Norway, Spain and Sweden each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per man-hour (wage earners) in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2101)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether, France and The Federal Republic of Germany, each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per hour of work of all employed persons in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so. what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the hon ourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2102)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Israel and South Korea each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per man-day (wage earners) in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. Ifso, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the hon ourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2103)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether the Federal

Republic of Germany and Ireland each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per wage earner in the industrial sector.

  1. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  2. Ifso, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the hon ourable member’s question is as follows: (1) to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2104)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Austria, Belgium, Taiwan, Finland, The Federal Republic of Germany, Ghana, Hungary, Israel. Italy, Japan, The Netherlands. Norway, The Philippines, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom and Yugoslavia each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per person employed or per employee in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2105)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Czechoslovakia and The Federal Republic of Germany each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross production per man-hour (wage earners) in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows:

  1. See answer to Question No. 2091. The

ILO publication lists East Germany and not The Federal Republic of Germany as compiling statistics of the type referred to by the honourable member.

  1. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2106)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Czechoslovakia has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross production per man-day (wage earners) in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so. what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2107)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Bulgaria, Czecho slovakia, East Germany, Rumania and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross production per wage earner in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2108)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. ls he able to say whether Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ghana, Hungary, Poland, Rumania and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross production per person employed or per person in the industrial sector.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. to (3) See answer to Question No. 2091. According to the ILO publication, the countries referred to by the honourable member compile indices in respect of gross production per person employed in the industrial sector.

Productivity (Question No. 2109)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Brazil, Cyprus Hungary and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of gross production per person employed or per employee in factories only.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. See answer to Question No. 2091. The ILO publication lists these indices as relating to labour productivity in manufacturing.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2110)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Finland, The Federal Republic of Germany, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Japan, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, the United

Kingdom and the United States of America each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per person employed or per employee in factories only.

  1. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information. . ,
  2. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. See answers to Questions Nos 2091 and 2109.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity - (Question No. 2111)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether Brazil, the Federal Republic of Germany and Ireland each has machinery for measuring, recording- and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per wage earner in factories only.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. See answers to Questions Nos 2091 and 2109.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2112)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to state whether Israel and South Korea each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per man-day (wage earners) in factories only.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. See answers to Questions Nos 2091 and 2 1.09.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2113)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to state whether Belgium, Canada, France, The Federal Republic of Germany and the United States of America each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per hour of work of all employed persons in factories only.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

-The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. See answers to Questions Nos 2091 and 2109.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2114)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice: (:l) ls he able to say whether The Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Norway, Spain and the United Kingdom each has machinery for measuring, recording and publishing productivity movements in respect of net production per manhour (wage earners) in factories only.

  1. ls the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  2. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. -See answers to Questions Nos 2091 and 2109.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Productivity (Question No. 2115)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. ls he able to say whether the United Kingdom compiles statistics in respect of productivity and in relation to output per person employed in (a) gross domestic product, (b) total industrial production, (c) total manufacturing, (d) mining and (e) construction, as well as output per manhour worked in manufacturing.
  2. ls the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The labour productivity series prepared in the United Kingdom are described on pages 135- 137 of the l.L.O. publication.
  2. and (3) See answer lo Question No. 2091.

Productivity . (Question No. 2116)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. ls he able to say whether the United States of America compiles statistics in respect of productivity for the private sector of the economy and in relation to (a) output per man-hour, (b) output per employed person, (c) total output and (d) man-hours.
  2. Is the Commonwealth able to supply similar statistical information.
  3. If so, what is it.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The labour productivity series prepared in the United States are described on page 13S of the l.L.O. publication.
  2. and (3) See answer to Question No. 2091.

Thirty-five Hour Working Week (Question No. 2131)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Did he state on 23rd September 1970 that the overall cost of introducing a 35-hour week to all Australian industries would be (a) between $1,400 million and $2,000 million a year if employers were to maintain the volume of production by employing new labour and (b) between $2,100 million and $2,900 million a year if employers were to maintain the volume of production by working overtime.
  2. If so, will he (a) set out the basis of his calculations, (b) state the reason for the wide disparity between these estimates and (c) stale whether he took fully into account any increased productivity that may result from future technological changes in methods of production.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.

  2. (a): The main assumptions on which the estimates were based arc:

    1. That wage-earners effectively work on average a standard (ordinary time) week of 38i hours and overtime of 3i hours a week. (Derived from Commonwealth Statistician’s Survey of Weekly Earnings and Hours).
    2. That the introduction of a 35-hour week entails a reduction in average standard hours worked of either 3i hours (9 per cent) or 5 hours (13 per cent) depending on how it is applied in practice;
    3. That the introduction of a 35-hour week has no effect on weekly wage rates, so that hourly wage rates increase approximately in line with the decrease in working hours;
    4. That hourly rates paid for overtime increase proportionally;
    5. That . hourly rates for part-time workers also increase proportionally;
    6. That total wages, salaries and supplements amount to around $15,500 million. (Source: National Income and Expenditure, 1969- 70).
    7. That the introduction of a 35-hour week has no direct effect on productivity per man-hour.

On the basis of the above main assumptions it was found that:

  1. If the loss in working hours were made up by the employment of additional labour, the total annual wage and salary bill would rise by around $1,400 million (assuming hours worked per employee fell by 9 per cent) or by about $2,000 million (assuming hours worked per employee fell by 13 per cent)).

  2. If, as is more likely, the loss in working hours were made up by additional overtime and paid for at time-and-a-half rates, the total wage and salary bill would rise by between about $2,000 million and $2,900 million.

    1. (b): The reason for the wide disparity lies in the alternative assumptions used, as explained in Part 2 (a).
    2. (c): The assumptions are set out in full in Part 2(a).

Trade: Overseas Representation (Question No. 2143)

Mr Grassby:

asked the Minister for Trade and Industry, upon notice:

  1. Is Australia at present represented overseas by officers of his Department of various levels who are not Australian citizens by either registration or naturalisation.
  2. If so, how many officers are involved and what is the citizenship of each.
Mr Anthony:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Sir John McEwen) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Department of Trade and Industry is represented at 46 overseas posts by some 169 departmental officers and trade commissioners.
  2. Only one of these is not an Australian citizen He is a relatively recent appointee as Trade Commissioner, Bangkok, who is a British citizen, born in India. He has a requisite qualifications for Australian citizenship and has been asked to complete the necessary formalities for this.
  3. In addition, trade commissioners employ some 480 locally engaged staff at overseas posts, who, for the most part, are not Australian citizens but local nationals.

Defence Forces (Question No. 2168)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What is the average number of service personnel in the Australian Capital Territory at any one time during the course of a year.
  2. How many are in the (a) Navy (b) Army and (c) Air Force.
  3. How many are (a) Commissioned and (b) non-commissioned.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

On the basis of information provided by the Service departments the average number of service personnel in the A.C.T. at any one time during the course of a year is assessed as:

Industrial Relations (Question No. 2242)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

In view of his statement to the House on 21st October 1970 (Hansard, page 2540) that his Department has the co-ordinating responsibility for the industrial policy of those departments and instrumentalities which have relativity to outside industrial areas, and that the Public Service Board has the co-ordinating responsibility for other types of departments, will he (a) give the date on which this demarcation of responsibility was adopted by the Menzies Government, (b) state whether his Department endorsed or authorised the action of Commonwealth Hostels Ltd in appealing against the decision of Mr Commissioner E. J. Clarkson in awarding equal pay to female employees and to abolish the interstate differences between wage rates for male and female workers, (c) state whether his Department exercised its co-ordinating responsibilities when the Public Service Arbitrator made a consent determination for the Chief Civil Engineer, Chief Mechanical Engineer and Special Service Engineer employed in the Commonwealth Railways awarding salary increases in line with those rejected by the Public Service Board for Professional Engineers, (d) state whether his Department opposed the decision of the Stevedoring Industry Authority to award 4 weeks’ annual leave at loaded rates for members of the Waterside Workers’ Federation and (e) state whether his Department has ever sought to influence the Public Service Board in the way it carries out its coordinating responsibilities.

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Public Service Board and the Department of Labour and National Service were given responsibilities in respect of policy co-ordination as to industrial matters by a decision of the Chifley Labor Government in December 1948. In February 1957 the

Menzies Government made a further decision on co-ordination broadly along the lines mentioned in my statement of 21st October 1970 (Hansard, page 2540).

  1. I am informed that there was consultation between officers of the Company and officers of my Department on this matter and it was agreed that the appeal be lodged.
  2. Salaries for the positions referred to in this part of the question do not come within the scope of my Department’s co-ordination responsibility.
  3. The Australian Stevedoring Industry Authority did not award 4 weeks annual leave at loaded rates for members of the Waterside Workers Federation.
  4. There is consultation between the Public Service Board and my Department on a close and continuing basis.

Industrial Disputes (Question No. 2239)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that more than 50 per cent of the total man days lost in Australia arise from non-wage disputes.
  2. In any case, what are the causes of these disputes.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) Causes of industrial disputes (involving stoppage of work of 10 man days or more) are published by the Commonwealth Statistician. Figures for recent years are as follows:

These figures show that the proportions of disputes attributable to particular groups of causes have fluctuated widely in recent years.

South Vietnam (Question No. 1269)

Mr Reynolds:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Will he make available, for the perusal of members, copies of the pamphlet, ‘Australian Military Forces Pocketbook, South Vietnam’.
  2. Who produces this pamphlet.
  3. Has bis attention been drawn to criticism of the pamphlet, because of its account of past and present regimes and situations in Vietnam, which recently appeared in the ‘Catholic Worker’ published in Melbourne.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Australian Military Forces Pocketbook. South Vietnam’, is a restricted publication. However, I am prepared to make it available for the honourable member’s perusal.
  2. The booklet is produced by the Department of the Army.
  3. Yes. I am advised that it is a factual general information booklet designed to inform soldiers of the country in which they wilt be serving and of its people.

Defence Equipment (Question No. 14R6)

Mr Keating:
BLAXLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister for Defence upon notice:

  1. What was the total value of military equipment purchased overseas in each of the financial years 1954-55 to 1969 70 inclusive.
  2. What ate these figures expressed as a percentage of the total amount spent by the Defence group of departments on equipment procurement during each of those years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Aborigines (Question No. 1566)

Mr Wallis:

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Has there been any alteration to the plan to erect a health hostel for Aboriginal women at Port Augusta in September 1970.
  2. Are there any plans to erect a hostel for male Aborigines in the northern Spencer Gulf area of South Australia to assist in providing suitable single accommodation where employment opportunities are available.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Commonwealth approved the erection of a health hostel at Port Augusta in 1968-69. The South Australian authorities were not able to proceed with the construction of the hostel in that financial year and it was approved as part of their 1969-70 programme. To date only some $6,000 has been spent on the hostel and it seems unlikely that the building will be commenced this financial year.
  2. The Whyalla Aboriginal Association approached the Commonwealth for a grant to erect a hostel for working Aboriginal men at Whyalla. The South Australian Department of Aboriginal Affairs advised that the YMCA had constructed a hostel at Whyalla which could cater for Aboriginal working men. In the circumstances it was decided not to fund the hostel at Whyalla at this stage. There are no plans to erect other hostels for Aboriginal men in the northern Spencer Gulf area of South Australia.

Aborigines (Question No. 1574)

Mr Wallis:

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

What (a) amount was spent and, (b) projects were assisted in, (i) South Australia and, (ii) the electorate of Grey, from the Aboriginal Advancement Trust account during the last financial year.

Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

The information sought by the honourable member will be found in the attachments to my second reading speech of the States Grants (Aboriginal Advancement) Bill 1970, on 15th October 1970.

Service Decorations (Question No. 1742)

Mr Daly:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. Is it an offence for a person who is not entitled to do so, to use letters which would signify that he had been decorated for bravery whilst serving as a member of the armed forces.
  2. If so, what section ofthe law cavers this offence and what is the penalty provided.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Sub-section (5.) (b) of section 80B of the Defence Act provides that it is an offence for a person falsely to represent himself as a person who is entitled to wear or have in his possession a service decoration. The penalty provided for an offence against this provision is a fine of$100.

Service Decorations (Question No. 1743)

Mr Daly:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

What is the name and the former rank and unit of each member of the Armed Forces who received either the:

Victoria Cross;

Military Cross;

Distinguished Conduct Medal; or

Military Medal; during the 1939-45 War.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Mr Hayden:
OXLEY, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for

Defence, on notice:

What was the

recruitment target set; and

actual level of recruitment achieved in each of the Services in each of the last five years.

page 200

AWARDS OF VC, MC, DCM AND MM FOR SERVICE IN 1939-45 WAR

None received

Lists of Army recipients of the remaining awards have not been maintained, and that information requested could not be provided without a complete search of the individual records of personnel in the Service during World War II. The number of awards made to Army personnel was:

Military Cross- 500;

Distinguished Conduct Medal - 197;

Military Medal- 983.

Defence: Recruitment (Question No. 1748)

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

The target and actual level of recruitment in each of the last five years is as follows:

Defence Personnel: Rent Payments (Question No. 175J)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that officers of the Australian Armed Services pay rent for Government provided married quarters at a rate of 15 per cent of their pay.
  2. ls it also a fact that Public Servants pay rent for Government provided quarters at a rate of 10 per cent of their salaries.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. A serviceman occupying a Government owned house pays either the economic rent based primarily on the capital cost of the house, or 15 per cent of his pay and allowances, whichever is the lesser. In other words, servicemen cannot pay more than the economic rent but may pay less. Nearly half of the servicemen in government houses are paying less than the economic rent.
  2. The majority of public servants in government houses are required to pay the economic rent without any upper limit based on percentage of salary. However, lower rates based generally on 10 per cent of salary apply to certain premises where the occupant has caretaker or other responsibilities such as resident postmasters, and are also generally applied as a staff attraction in Northern Territory and Papua/New Guinea. However, any apparent difference between the rental charged to servicemen and Commonwealth public servants in Papua/New Guinea is virtually cancelled out by rebates made through Territories Allowance.

Defence Services: Personnel (Question No. 1758)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was the total number of Service personnel engaged In each Service during each of the past five years.
  2. How many civilians were employed in each of the Departments of Defence, Navy, Army and Air during each of the same years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

  1. The numbers of Service personnel engaged in each Service as at 30th June of each year since 1966 were:
  1. The numbers of civilians employed in each of the Departments of Defence, Navy, Army and Air at 30th June of each year since 1966 were:

Pine Gap Space Research Facility (Question No. 1771)

Mr Les Johnson:
HUGHES, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What area of land is made available at Pine Gap for use by the United States of America.
  2. For what period and on what terms was the land made available.
  3. Does the utilisation of this land by the United States involve the relinquishment of Australian sovereignty over the area; if so, by what constitutional authority has this been done.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

  1. The Joint United States/ Australian Defence Space Research Facility at Pine Gap is located on 4,398 acres 20 perches of Commonwealth land. The Facility occupies approximately 50 acres and the remainder is required as a buffer zone against electrical interference.
  2. The land is made available in accordance with Article II of the Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the United States of America relating to the establishment of a Joint Defence Space Research Facility. This agreement which is dated 9th December 1966 has an initial period of 10 years. From time to time arrangements are made with local land owners for the temporary use of land on which to place equipments used in particular experiments.
  3. No. t rade With United States of America (Question No. 1909)
Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Trade and Industry, upon notice:

  1. Has the United States ban on the importation of Australian mutton caused a loss lo Australia of millions of dollars of export income.
  2. Is there, at present, on the other hand, a dangerous inflow of poor quality American films and obscene and pornographic literature.
  3. If so, is this clearly an untenable trading situation.
  4. Will he take steps with the appropriate authorities to correct this imbalance of trade between the two countries and convert it into one which will benefit the economic and moral welfare of Australia.
Mr Anthony:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Sir John McEwen) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The temporary ban imposed on imports of Australian mutton by United States’ authorities has created certain difficulties for the Australian mutton industry. However, it must be understood that the United States of America is only insisting on standards that it applies to its own domestic killing works and if we want access to this market Australian mutton export establishments must comply with the requirements set down by the United States.
  2. I could give only a personal opinion on the quality of American films and I do not think it appropriate that I should do so. Regulation 4a of the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations and the Customs (Cinematograph Films) Regulations contain provisions to prohibit the importation of literature and films of an obscene and pornographic nature.

Under the administration of my colleague the Minister for Customs and Excise these regulations provide the legal means to prevent a dangerous inflow of the type of obscene and pornographic materia] to which the honourable member refers.

  1. My answers to parts (1) and (2) of this question do not support the honourable member’s contention that an untenable trading situation exists.
  2. The United States of America is now Australia’s second most important export market, taking over $500m worth of Australian goods in 1969-70, and was the main source of our imports in that year, when imports from the United States of America were worth almost 31,000m. Both countries are members of the GATT and we do not necessarily aim to balance our trade bilaterally. The United States of America is the main supplier of many of the items we need for our development; examples of these are chemicals and excavating, levelling and boring machinery. Total Australian exports to the United States of America have been increasing over the last 3 years by about 12 per cent a year.

Our trading position in the United States of America is constantly under review and supported as necessary by top-level trade representations in Washington and an active trade promotion programme.

Aboriginals (Question No. 2010)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Can he state, from the latest information available for each State and Commonwealth Territory, the (a) neo-natal, birth, infant and age specific mortality rates for Aborigines and (b) the degree of deviation from internationally accepted standards of growth, for example in relation to height and weight, of Aboriginal infants and children according to age specific rates.
  2. Where deviation is established, is there any evidence to suggest that the deviation continues into adulthood.
  3. If details of the foregoing matters cannot be given for a whole State or Territory, will he provide any localised findings.
  4. Can he supply comparable information for the Australian Caucasian population.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answers to the honourable member’s questions are as follows:

  1. (a) Accurate information is not available for Australia as a whole to enable calculation of the precise information requested. I have been advised that figures ascertained from the latest information available in the Northern Territory, from the Northern Territory Administration, which is the responsibility of the Commonwealth, give for 1968, an infant mortality rate of 80.91/ 1,000 live births.

The table below gives the age mortality rates for the Northern Territory in that year. Note that in the 2 to 8 years age group ‘ there were very few deaths and that several of these were attributable to accidental drownings.

There are no figures available for (b), but please see my answer to (4).

  1. The research data is inadequate to form the basis for accurate conclusions.
  2. The most recent and well known research has been conducted by Dr D. G. Jose and colleagues on children and adolescents on Aboriginal settlements in Queensland. The full details may be found in Australian Paediatric Journal, Vol. 5, No. 2 of June 1969 on pages 71-88.
  3. Figures are available for the Australian population as a whole, but before 1967 Aboriginal statistics were excluded from the results. The question of the definition of an Aboriginal causes some problems as Aborigines have been variously defined, from being of full Aboriginal descent to being of any Aboriginal descent. Thus, subtracting the Aboriginal figures from that of the population as a whole does not give accurate figures for the white Australian population. The table below is for the Northern Territory for 1968, and has been compiled by the Bureau of Census and Statistics.

Interdepartmental Committee: Defence Housing (Question No. 2024)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Which departments are represented on the interdepartmental committee established to consider availability, location and standards of housing for members of the forces and alternative means of satisfying the outstanding requirement.
  2. What was the dale of the establishment of the committee.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The following departments are represented on the interdepartmental committee inquiring into housing for the forces, either as full members or co-opted members:

Defence

Prime Minister’s

Treasury

Housing

Navy

Army

Air

Works

Interior (and NCDC).

  1. The Committee was established on 14 August 1970.

Aboriginals (Question No. 2057)

Mr Kirwan:
FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. What Aboriginal organisations ure, or have, been financially assisted by his Office.
  2. What has been the extent of assistance in each case.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answers to the honourable member’s questions are as follows:

Defence Forces: Housing (Question No. 2058)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that, as a general principle, Army and Air Force personnelhave to pay 15 per cent of their salary in rent for their accommodation, whereas Commonwealth public servants pay only 10 per cent.
  2. If so, what are the reasons for the difference.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) Servicemen occupying Government houses pay an economic rent based primarily on the capital value of the house occupied, but there is a maximum of 15 per cent of pay and allowances applied. In service accommodation generally, there is an almost equal division between those paying economic rents and those paying rent at 15 per cent of pay and allowances. The general effect of the 15 per cent limitation is to subsidise the cost of Service rents, particularly in the case of lower ranks where the pay percentage tends to be less than the economic rent.

    1. The majority of public servants are required to pay the prescribed economic rent without any salary-percentage limitation. They therefore may pay more than a serviceman for a similar house, and would not normally pay less. However, special rent concessions are provided for public servants in Northern Territory mainly as a form of attraction allowance to assist in staffing, and also in Papua-New Guinea although in the latter case any difference between servicemen’s and public servants’ rentals is broadly compensated by adjustments in Territory Allowance. The other cases where the 10 per cent of salary limitation applies are mainly where the public servants have incidental obligations requiring them to live on the premises, e.g. postmasters.

  2. The differences are therefore not entirely one way. The reasons for the differences are largely historical. Service rentals have always had a pay percentage limitation, and the constant rotation of servicemen has made a single Australia wide formula desirable. Public service rents, on the other hand, have regard to the normal Treasury requirement for recovery of economic costs, but also to industrial award concessions for caretaker responsibilities and the special circumstances of particular departments.

Institute of Criminology (Question No. 1676)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Attorney-General, upon notice:

  1. What has been (a) the date, (b)the nature and (c) the outcome of the communications between the Commonwealth and New Zealand and each State concerning the (i) National Institute of Criminology, (ii) Criminology Research Council and (iii) Criminal Research Fund.
  2. Between which States and the Commonwealth do matters of detail still remain to be resolved (Hansard, 1st September 1970, page 756).
Mr Hughes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. There has been correspondence between the Commonwealth, New Zealand and the States concerning these matters since 24th October 1968. New Zealand has indicated that it does not propose to join with the Commonwealth and the States at the present stage in the setting up of facilities for research but would wish to send officers to participate in training courses conducted by the Institute. The States have agreed to the proposals with respect to the establishment of a Criminology Research Council, a Criminology Research Fund and an Australian Institute of Criminology.
  2. All States have agreed to the Commonwealth’s proposals.

Australian Capital Territory: Housing (Question No. 1773)

Mr Les Johnson:
HUGHES, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. Do any senators or members of the House of Representatives occupy Government-owned houses in the Australian Capital Territory.
  2. If so, in respect of each case (a) who is the tenant, (b) what is the address of the premises and (c) what are the rental and tenancy terms.
Mr Hunt:
Minister for the Interior · GWYDIR, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. No.
  2. See answer to (1) above.

Northern Territory: Police Force (Question No. 1917)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. ls it a fact that the Northern Territory Police Force is short of recruits and conducts campaigns to recruit persons to join that Police Force.
  2. If so. was an application received recently from an ex-New South Wales constable of police who was well qualified and had no blemish whatsoever on his character, and at the time of his application was working for a security organisation.
  3. Was the application of the ex-New South Wales police constable refused, notwithstanding that he was qualified for the position and the work and that there were vacancies in the Northern Territory Police Force.
  4. ls he able to say whether this former police constable resigned from the New South Wales Police Force of his own free will as a matter of principle after having reported another member of the New South Wales Police Force for striking a member of the public.
  5. If so. can he also state whether this former constable informed the New South Wales Commissioner of Police of his reasons for his resignation.
  6. If this information is not known, will he ask the Commissioner of Police in the Northern Territory if he made inquiries of the New South Wales Commissioner of Police regarding the resignation of the applicant and if he was informed that the resignation arose because the constable had witnessed and made a complaint about police brutality.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Northern Territory Police Force conducts annual recruitment campaigns.
  2. , (3) and (6) It is not the practice to divulge information regarding applications for employment.
  3. and (5) The circumstances described are outside the scope of the Department of the Interior.

Conservation (Question No. 1981)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. ls it a fact that, by the end of this century, the population of Canberra is expected to approximate I million people, the population of Sydney is expected to approximate S million and the population of the greater Wollongong area ‘ is expected to approximate another million or so people.
  2. If so, is there a great need to preserve all existing natural southern coastline and surrounds as national parks.
  3. Is he able to say whether the only relatively unspoiled piece of natural coastline of any size between Sydney and Eden is the area originally planned as the Murramurrang State Park.
  4. If so, will he take all steps that are open to him to enter into negotiations with the appropriate Ministers and officers of the New South Wales Government to ensure that no further development takes place in the Murramurrang area so that its original boundaries as planned by the New South Wales State Parks and Wildlife Service are preserved and so that it can be left as a national park for use by the citizens of Australia and particularly those who will inhabit the Australian Capital Territory and this part of Australia.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The latest projections by the NCDC are that Canberra’s population could approximate 600,000 by the end of the century and I am informed that the Slate Planning Authority of New South Wales expects that the population of Sydney could then be in the vicinity of 5 million. The Authority does not have available a population projection for the greater Wollongong area as such. However, 1 understand that a population projection it has made for the Illawarra Region which comprises the local government areas of Wollongong, Shellharbour. Kiama and Shoalhaven, indicates a population of about 570,000 by the year 2001.
  2. Having regard to anticipated population growth, there is obvious value in preserving areas in a natural state for the enjoyment of future generations.
  3. and (4) The Government recognises that the people of the Australian Capital Territory are increasingly using the South Coast areas and action to preserve the particular area referred to would no doubt be welcomed by many. However, the responsibility for the dedication and management of national parks in New South Wales is entirely a matter for the Government of that State. Matters of mutual interest are discussed between those responsible for national parks and reserves in the various States and Territories at the Australian Fauna Authorities Conferences and the Ministerial Conferences on National Parks, which are held regularly.

The Government is considering declaring some 11.000 acres of the 16,700 acres contained in the Commonwealth Territory of Jervis Bay as a reserve to preserve the natural environment.

Aboriginals: Gurindji Land Rights (Question No. 1982)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the claim of Mr Mick Rangiari, a Gurindji tribesman, made at a public meeting sponsored by Abschol on Friday, 25th September, that the land had been taken from the Gurindji’s without asking.
  2. If so, will he make inquiries and provide information on the circumstances in which the 500 square miles demanded by the Gurindji’s as a cattle station became the property of the company known as ‘Vesteys’.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) 1 am not in a position to confirm or deny what might have been said at the public meeting. However, the land now under pastoral lease to the Wave Hill Pastoral Co. Pty Ltd (Vesteys) was leased to the company in accordance with the relevant Territory law which provides for the responsible Minister to grant leases of vacant Crown land for various purposes.

The land was first leased in 1893.

Land Rating (Question No. 2061)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. What factors are taken into account in determining the percentage of the unimproved value of a particular parcel of land which is taken as being the appropriate sum for general rates on that land.
  2. Are these rates intended to reimburse the Government for the cost of providing services for that land; if so, how is the cost of those services arrived at.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. With the abolition of land rent in Canberra and the introduction of the new basis of land charging with effect from 1st January 197 1, it has been decided that total revenue from the general rate and water and sewerage charges during the first half of 1971 will not exceed the revenue which would have been received during that period from land rent, the general rate and water and sewerage charges had those charges remained at 1970 levels.

All ratable land has been revalued during 1970 and a rate in the dollar struck which when applied to the total value of the land, will yield the sum required to be collected by way of the general rate.

  1. No.

Australian Capital Territory: Police Fingerprints and Photographs (Question No. 2063)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. What are all the facts and circumstances which the Commissioner for Police in the Australian Capital Territory takes into account when he decides not to surrender or destroy fingerprints or photographs that have been taken of an accused person when that person has requested that they be surrendered or destroyed.
  2. Will he provide a complete description of all the principles that the Commissioner acts upon when deciding whether or not to destroy fingerprints or photographs when he is requested to do so.
  3. Does the Commissioner, amongst the other facts and circumstances that he considers, take into account the fact that a person may have been convicted of ordinary traffic offences such as negligent driving and speeding.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) Each application to the Commissioner by a person for the return or destruction of fingerprints or photographs is decided on its merits by the Commissioner of Police. The factors which are considered are the circumstances of the particular offence for which the person was charged, the person’s antecedents which include his age, state of health, personal and family history and any circumstances which may have any special bearing on the commission of this particular offence, past offences or the possibility of his committing further offences. The practice in these matters in the Australian Capital Territory conforms with the practice in the Australian States.

Photographs at Demonstrations (Question No. 2162)

Dr Klugman:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. In view of his reply to Question No. 1581 (Hansard, page 2611) indicating that photographs taken by, or under the authority of, his Department at demonstrations are not only taken to help court proceedings, what are the other specific purposes for which they are taken.
  2. When was he first informed of the other purposes for which the photographs could be used.
  3. Has he informed the Prime Minister of these other purposes.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) See answer to Question No. 2194.

Ord River: Cattle Stocking and Land Regeneration (Question No. 2178) Mr Whitlam asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

What negotiations have been held or arrangements made with Western Australia concerning cattle stocking and land regeneration in the Ord River catchment area since the answer of a former Minister for Territories to me on 28th March 1963 (Hansard, page 253).

Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Some discussions have been held since March 1963 between technical officers of the Northern Territory Administration engaged in soil erosion control and land regeneration and technical officers of the Western Australian Government regarding erosion control in the Upper Ord Valley. In the Northern Territory part of the Ord River catchment area, soil reclamation work is being carried out under the provisions of the Northern Territory Soil Conservation and Control Ordinance by the Northern Territory Administration with the co-operation of the pastoral lessees.

Australian Capital Territory: Leasehold System (Question No. 2192)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the

Interior, upon notice:

  1. Will he give details of the representations referred to in part (2) of the answer to question No. 1923 (Hansard, 21st October 1970, pages 2615-6).
  2. What are the details of the reasons why concern was felt that the planning and development advantages of the Canberra leasehold system could be compromised.
  3. Will he make the representations available.
  4. Will he make the ‘study’ referred to in part (3) of the answer available.
  5. What were the views that were expressed by the National Capital Development Commission that were taken into account.
  6. If these views were in written form, will he make them available.
  7. Will he give details of the system whereby the lump sum referred to in part (6) was determined.
  8. What is the purpose of requiring such a lump sum to be paid to the Commonwealth.
  9. Will he make available the documents by which the Chamber of Commerce and the Advisory Council expressed concern about the present system referred to in parts (11) and (12) of the answer.
  10. What are the details of the inequities that the Government had in mind and which are referred to in parts (11) and (12) of the answer to the question.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. , (3) and (9) No. It is not my practice to make public submissions and representations made to me by private individuals and organisations.
  2. These representations ‘were made before full information on the proposed changes was available and arose from a mistaken notion held by those bodies that the Government’s announced intention to abandon land rent would undermine the leasehold system of land tenure in Canberra.

Information about the changes and the reasons for them have been given in ray reply to question No. 1923 (Hansard, 21st October 1970, pages 2615-6), in my public statement of 22nd October 1970, as well as in Senator Cotton’s speech in the Senate on 26th October in support of the Land Rent (Interim Provisions) Ordinance 1970.

I made it clear in my statement that the changes would in no way affect the planning and development advantages of the leasehold system, but would remove inequitable distribution of land charges. Senator Cotton also made this clear and he emphasised that there was no intention of interfering with the leasehold system of tenure, rather the intention was to retain all the advantages of the leasehold system whilst putting Canberra’s finances on to a basis which both the people of Canberra and the people of Australia can comprehend.

  1. No. A report was made in the form of a confidential submission to the Government. However the major reasons put forward in support of the recommendations have since been made public.
  2. and (6) In the study that was made, other Departments as well as the National Capital Development Commission were consulted because of their various responsibilities and the final recommendation took into account the comments made. I do not propose to make public any of these comments.
  3. The premium to be paid upon variation of a covenant or condition of a lease will be 50 per cent of the difference between the market values of the lease for the old and the new purposes, less $1,500.
  4. Formerly, upon a variation of a covenant or condition of lease, the City Area Leases Ordinance provided for the unimproved value of the land to’ be reappraised and for land rent to be adjusted accordingly. In this way the Commonwealth received part of the benefit of the increased value given to the lease. The new system ensures that the Commonwealth shares in the additional value given to a lease in these circumstances.
  5. These are explained in my statement and in the speech by Senator Cotton, both of which are referred to in (2) above.

Australian Capital Territory: Third Party Insurance (Question No. 2193)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. What were the facts, figures and circumstances used in arriving at the pre-determined relativity factor referred to in part (1) of the answer to my question No. 1629 (Hansard, 21st October 1970, pages 2613-4) relating to third parly insurance on motor cycles.
  2. What were the facts, figures and circumstances used to arrive at the figure of (a) $3.75 used for administrative expenses, (b) 24 per cent used for profit and (c) 2½ per cent used for contingencies.
  3. What are the details of the investigations referred to by the Third Party lnsurance Premiums Advisory Committee in its report of November 1968.
  4. Will he make available the annual statistical returns referred to in part (4) of his answer to question No. 1629.
  5. Will he supply the information given by the NRMA Insurance Limited relating to their overall third party insurance experience in the Australian Capital Territory.
  6. If any of the information is too extensive for inclusion in an answer will he make the documents or information available for inspection in the Parliamentary Library.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Due to the small number of A.C.T. motor cycles with an engine capacity in excess of 250 c.c. there was not sufficient A.C.T. insurance experience available for the relativity to be based on A.C.T. insurance experience alone. As a result the pre-determined relativity rate for this class of motor cycle was to a large degree based on confidential information relating to the experience in other States.
  2. (a) Prior to the 1968 increase in the preium rates, a constant loading for expenses of $1.75 was added to each policy. At the request of the Third Party Insurance Premiums Advisory Committee, the NRMA Insurance Ltd supplied in confidence a statement showing the estimated cost to the company of administering compulsory third party insurance business in the A.C.T. The cost was shown to be of the order of 11% of premium income. The view was taken in 1968 that the proper method of loading the premium to meet expenses of administration was to add a fixed sum to the premium for each policy. The fixed sum equivalent to the percentage referred to above is $3.36.

The Third Party Insurance Premiums Advisory Committee in its report published in 1968, said that it had been impressed by the arguments put forward by the NRMA Insurance Ltd that it was faced with substantial increases in administrative costs due to recent clerical awards adding as much as 10% per annum to salaries and with rising costs of supplies and services. The new rate of premium in 1968 was intended to be sufficient to provide for levels of expenses in the immediate future, rather than for past levels of expenses, a loading of$3. 75 per policy for expenses was adopted.

  1. The 2½% loading on the premium for profit has remained unchanged since 1964 when it was considered a reasonable figure for profit for insurance companies writing third party insurance business.
  2. The 7½% of the gross premium for contingencies used prior to 1968 was adopted in 1964 to provide for an anticipated increasing trend in claim costs and to permit the establishment of a small buffer reserve against unforeseeable changes in experience.

The detailed analyses of the trends in the costs of claims and the ratio of claims to policies enabled the average cost of a claim to be calculated in 1968. The need for a substantial proportion of the 7½% contingency loading therefore disappeared, although the possibility of unforeseeable changes in experience still exist. A 2½% contingency loading was adopted in 1968 as being sufficient for the immediate future.

  1. Part of the information requested by the honourable member is being supplied in my answer to part (6) of Question No. 2201. Other details are not available as they were supplied, in confidence, to the Committee by the NRMA Insurance Ltd. The results of the investigations are, however, shown in the graphs on pages 4 and 5 of the report of the Committee published in November 1968. There was a slight variation between the preliminary figures from which the graphs were drawn and the figures later calculated and on which the revised premiums were based. These variations are shown in the following table.
  1. and (6) The annual statistical returns are made by the authorised insurers in confidence to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles and will not be made available to the honourable member.
  2. The information given by NRMA Insurance Ltd was made available to the Third Party Insurance Premiums Advisory Committee in confidence and relates to the experience of one authorised insurer only.

Australian Capital Territory: Police (Question No. 2194)

Mr Enderby:

asked (he Minister for the

Interior, upon notice:

  1. Will he list the purposes, in full and in detail, for which the police photographs of the last Moratorium demonstration in Canberra were taken.
  2. Are there any circumstances under which he is prepared to give an assurance that the police photographs taken at the last Moratorium demonstration in Canberra will be destroyed. (Hansard, 21st October 1970, page 2611).
  3. Are the police photographs taken at demonstrations indexed in the police records; if so, will he describe the method of indexing used.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) The most important role for the police at demonstrations is to take steps to prevent breaches of the peace.

People who organise peaceful demonstrations have no control over elements unknown to them who often intrude and who are prone to create disturbances or may incite others to commit offences and in preparing plans for dealing with possible eventualities, it is important for police to be able to identify these intruders so that the most effective measures can be taken in the hope that breaches of the peace will be prevented. Photographs taken at demonstrations provide a valuable aid to police in carrying out this function.

Photographs of scenes at different demonstrations enable the effectiveness of any new procedures introduced with the aim of improving methods of dealing with such occasions to be evaluated.

Photographic records also enable the effects of demonstrations on traffic flow and the rights of access of other citizens to streets and other public places to be studied.

Demonstrations are, by their nature, public occasions and are commonly photographed by news photographers or private individuals as well as police. There is a proper distinction between such photographs taken on public occasions and police identification photographs of persons in custody and that distinction is preserved in the police records.

I am not prepared to give the assurance sought.

Australian Capital Territory: Third Party Insurance (Question No. 2200)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. How many third party claims for damages arising out of the use of a motor car were made in the Australian Capital Territory during each of the years 1965 to 1969.
  2. What was the (a) amount recovered in each claim, (b) amount of legal costs incurred in each claim that had to be paid by the defendant’s insurer and (c) total amount that had to be paid by the defendant’s insurer.
  3. How marry motor vehicles, other than motor cycles with a capacity exceeding 250cc, were registered in the Australian Capital Territory in each of the years 1965 to 1969.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The information sought for the years prior to 1968 is unavailable. The authorised insurers’ statistical returns did not contain this information prior to 1968.

The number of claims arising out of the use of private cars, notified to authorised insurers in 1968 and 1969 were:

1968 .. ..451

1969 ..486

  1. The information sought in this part of the question is not known.
  2. Set out below are figures taken from the annual returns lodged with the Registrar of Motor Vehicles by the authorised insurers indicating the number of motor vehicles other than motor cycles with a capacity exceeding 250cc insured in each of the years 1965 to 1969.

1965 .. .. 32,992

1966 .. .. 37,079

1967 .. .. 40,823

1968 .. .. 44,490

1969 .. .. 49,605

Australian Capital Territory: Third Party Insurance (Question No. 2201)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

  1. How did the authorised insurers arrive at the estimate of future liability referred to in part (3) of the answer to my question No. 1980 (Hansard, 27th October 1970, page 2825).
  2. Will he confirm that the estimate made for liability to be incurred in (a) 1968 was $1,000 and (b) 1969 was $6,500.
  3. Is the difference between the (a) payment of $44 and the estimate of $1,000 for 1968 and (b) payment of $178 and the estimate of $6,500 for 1969 ploughed back into profits or set aside, as a credit for future third party premiums.
  4. What are the reasons for the difference between the payments and estimates in each case.
  5. What payments have been made to date against the estimate of $6,500 for claims notified and outstanding at the end of 1969.
  6. What facts, figures, circumstances or experience did the authorised insurers make available to the Third Party Insurance Premiums Advisory Committee in support of their estimates for future liabilities for each of the years 1965 to 1969.
  7. How many motor cycles with a capacity in excess of 250cc were registered in the Australian Capital Territory in each of the years 1965 to 1969.
Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The authorised insurers use their own methods for arriving at their individual estimates of outstanding liability. The accuracy of the estimates of outstanding liability made by the authorised insurers can be assessed in future years.
  2. $1,000 and $6,500 are estimates of future liability as at 31st December 1968 and as at 31st December 1969 respectively. These estimates do not necessarily relate to claims made in that particular year.
  3. and (4) Where a claim is notified but not finalised estimates of outstanding liability are made. When the claim is finalised the estimate of outstanding liability in relation to the claim is reduced to zero.
  4. The information required is not known because insurance experience for 1970 is not yet available.
  5. In 1968 Third Party Insurance Premiums Advisory Committee had before it extensive tabulations showing the amounts of actual and estimated liability arising from claims which occurred between 1958 and 1966. These tabulations will be made available to the honourable member. The Committee also had before it the annual returns of the authorised insurers.
  6. The Registrar of Motor Vehicles does not keep a record of the different types of motor cycles registered. The following figures have been taken from the annual returns lodged with the Registrar of Motor Vehicles by the authorised insurers and indicate the number of motor cycles with an engine capacity in excess of 250cc which were insured with authorised insurers in the years 1965 lo 1969.

1965 . . . . 36

1966 .. ..29

1967 .. ..41

1968 .. ..66

1969 .. ..83

Electoral (Question No. 2262)

Mr Daly:

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

What was the (a) informal vote in each Commonwealth electoral division in Australia and (b) percentage of informal to formal votes in each case, in the last Senate elections.

Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honourable members question is as follows:

Aboriginals (Question No. 2268)

Mr Calder:
NORTHERN TERRITORY

asked the Minister for the Interior, upon notice:

Will he confer with the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs and, as recently suggested by me, set up a programme to train men and women so that a team of experienced practical people may be brought into being in order to undertake the long and hard job of leading and teaching the Aborigines in the Northern Territory to develop their own vast resources for their own benefit.

Mr Hunt:
CP

– The answer provided by my predecessor (Mr Nixon) to the honorable member’s question is as follows:

There is consultation between the MinisterinCharge of Aboriginal Affairs and the Minister for the Interior on policy issues affecting Aborigines in the Northern Territory. The training of Aboriginal men and women is the responsibility of the Welfare Division of the Northern Territory Administration within the Department of the Interior. One of the functions of the Welfare Division is to provide for the welfare and advancement of Aborigines in the Northern Territory and to carry out its functions the Division is staffed with experienced and qualified officers.

The Australian School of Pacific Administration, Teachers’ Colleges, departmental courses and Public Service conferences provide specialised staff training and training on the job is given in the field. At the Australian School of Pacific Administration, for example, the courses for teachers and patrol officers give special attention to anthropology and other studies which have a particular relevance to the Aboriginal situation. All training programmes are aimed at developing among officers an understanding of Aboriginal culture and society and the broad policies of Government for the development of the Aboriginal people as well as imparting special skills required. The duties of field officers include the training of Aborigines so that they can take advantage of opportunities for economic progress by using the natural resources within Aboriginal reserves.

A number of Aboriginal business ventures have been assisted with finance from the Aborigines Benefits Trust Fund and the Capital Fund to assist Aboriginal enterprises. Where this is necessary the assistance includes funds to employ people with technical and management skills to assist the Aboriginal owners. Examples of this are the fishing project at Umbakumba, gardening projects at Maningrida and Garden Point, the proposed store at Wave Hill, the prospecting being done by Aborigines at Docker River, and the copper leaching plant at Yuendumu. Other prospecting rights have been granted to Aboriginal groups from Maningrida and Goulburn Island and these groups have received and continue to have available to them technical and other assistance from the Territory Administration.

Defence Purchases: Local and Overseas (Question No. 1402)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence upon notice:

  1. What was the expenditure in 1969-70 on defence equipment for the services and the departments of Defence and Supply which has been purchased (a) in Australia- and (b) overseas.
  2. What was the value of equipment received by the Services and Departments in 1969-70 which had been (a) procured in Australia and (b) imported.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Expenditure in 1969-70 on defence equipment for the services and the departments of Defence and Supply amounted to:

    1. purchases in Australia -$184m.
    2. purchases overseas - $150m.

  2. The value of equipment received by the services and the departments of Defence and Supply in 1969-70 was:

    1. procured in Australia - $182m.
    2. imported -$ 1.30m.

Defence Payments: Local and Overseas (Question No. 1403)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

What payments were made in 1969-70:

for each class of ship and aircraft which has been ordered for the services from overseas, and

for ammunition which has been imported for each of the services from overseas.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Payments made to 1969-70 for each class of ship and aircraft which has been ordered for the Services from overseas are set out hereunder. This information includes payments made both overseas and in Australia.
  1. Payments made in 1969-70 for ammunition which has been imported for each of the services from overseas.

NAVY

Submarine signalling stores

Aircraft rockets 5”/ 54 shells

Mk46 torpedoes

Mk8 torpedoes

Mk23 torpedoes

Seacat missiles 4.5” shells 2” flare rockets 500 lb bomb fuses and components

Miscellaneous aircraft power cartridges

ARMY

Cartridges . 015”, 40, 81, 84 and 105 mm

Rockets, 66 mm

Simulators

Signals, illuminating

Fuses

Projectiles, 5.5”

Primers, electric

AIR

30 mm DEFA ball ammunition (balance of old order placed in France - local production now in hand). 30 mm Aden ammunition.

Services: Ships and Aircraft (Question No. 1404)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

Will he bring up to date the information inhis predecessor’s answer to me on 26th September 1969 (Hansard, page 2134) concerning ships and aircraft ordered for the services.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: In continuation of the details supplied earlier:

  1. The following table A sets out details of orders and expected deliveries of ships and aircraft for the Services since September 1969:
  1. The following table B sets out details of deliveries and estimated deliveries of ships and aircraft for the Services since September 1969:

Defence Orders from the United States of America (Question No. 1405)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was (a) value and (b) general nature of the Defence Orders placed by the United States of America in Australia and processed by his Department in each of the last 3 years.
  2. Does he know the (a) value and (b) general nature of any Defence Orders placed direct on industry in Australia by the United States in any of those years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) The value of defence orders placed by the United States of America in Australia and processed by the Department of Supply in each of the last 3 years is as follows:

  1. Munitions, sugar and aircraft components.

    1. No official records are held of orders placed direct on Australian industry by overseas countries. Some information on contracts placed by companies in the United States is known however; I refer to my answer to Question No. 761 (Hansard, page 237 of 19th August 1970). Other major contracts placed before 30th June 1970 that have come to notice are:

Hawker de Havilland Pty Ltd - aircraft components, $405,000.

Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation - aircraft components, $225,000.

Defence Orders from Britain (Question No. 1406)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was (a) value and (b) general nature of the Defence orders placed by Britain in Australia and processed by his Department in each of the last three years?
  2. Does he know the (a) value and (b) general nature of any Defence orders placed direct on industry in Australia by Britain in any of those years?
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) The value of defence orders placed by Britain in Australia and processed by the Department of Supply in each of the last three years is as follows:

(b)Ikara and Jindivik.

  1. No.

Defence Orders from New Zealand (Question No. 1407)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was (a) value and (b) general nature of the Defence orders placed by New Zealand in Australia and processed by his Department in each of the last three years?
  2. Does he know (a) value and (b) general nature of any Defence orders placed direct on industry in Australia by New Zealand in any of those years?
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) The value of defence orders placed by New Zealand in Australia and processed by the Department of Supply in each of the last three years is as follows:

  1. Munitions, spares and motor vehicles.

    1. Since 1st September 1969, when a Memorandum of Understanding on co-operation in defence supply was agreed between the Governments of Australia and New Zealand, New Zealand has placed orders direct with Australian industry and the Australian Services to the value of $ 1.352m.

Defence Orders from Malaysia (Question No. 1408)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was (a) value and (b) general nature of the Defence orders placed by Malaysia in Australia and processed by his Department in each of the last 3 years.
  2. Does he know the (a) value and (b) general nature of any Defence orders placed direct on industry in Australia by Malaysia in any of those years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) The value of defence orders placed by Malaysia in Australia and processed by the Department of Supply in each of the last 3 years is as follows:

  1. Munitions, small arms and equipment.

    1. No.

Defence Orders from Singapore (Question No. 1409)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was (a) value and (b) general nature of the Defence orders placed by Singapore in Australia and processed by his Department in each of the last 3 years.
  2. Does he know the (a) value and (b) general nature of any Defence orders placed direct on industry in Australia by Singapore in any of those years?
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) The value of defence orders placed by Singapore in Australia and processed by the Department of Supply in each of the last 3 years is as follows:

  1. Munitions, spares and miscellaneous equipment.

    1. No.

Armed Forces (Question No. 1484)

Mr Keating:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was the total number of personnel serving in the armed forces during the financial years 1954-55, 1959-60, 1964-65 and 1969-70.
  2. How many civilians were employed in the Defence, Service and other Departments to support the armed forces during those years.
  3. Is he able to supply an estimate of the number of civilians employed in private industry in Australia who worked directly or indirectly on military supplies during those years.
  4. What was the aggregate number of persons referred to in (1), (2) and (3) expressed as a percentage of the total number of workers employed in Australia during those years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows:

  1. No record is available of the number of civilians employed in private industry who worked directly or indirectly on military supplies. Moreover, it is not possible to provide a reasonable estimage in view of the vast range of military supplies, which are often produced concurrently with civilian needs. However, during the financial year 1969-70, purchases to the value of $188.8m were made from Australian suppliers for Departments. These purchases were spread over about 10,000 contractors ranging from very small businesses to the largest companies.
  2. The aggregate number of persons referred to in (1) and (2) expressed as a percentage of the total number of workers employed in Australia during those years is:

Vietnam: Ecological Effects of War (Question No. 2051)

Dr Cass:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to a report in Science of 1st May 1970 on the ecological effects of war in Vietnam.
  2. If so, do the Australian Armed Forces contribute to these ecological effects by making use of chemical warfare.
  3. Is research being conducted in Australia into chemical or biological warfare by (a) Armed Forces research establishments and (b) civilian research establishments,
  4. What studies are being made of the longterm effects of herbicides on the environment.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. As stated on many occasions, Australia does not conduct chemical warfare in Vietnam or anywhere else. Australian Army Task Forces in Vietnam use commercial weed killers for clearing undergrowth in front of defended positions and near perimeter wire.
  3. It should be well known in this House that investigations are conducted into the defensive aspects only of chemical warfare. Within the Department of Supply a small number of scientists is charged with the responsibility for keeping up to date our technology of defence against chemical warfare and this involves some research work, as well as keeping in touch with allied activity in this field. No work on biological agents is being undertaken in Australia.
  4. This question has been referred to my colleague the Minister for Education and Science for reply on activities in the civilian sector. However, within the Defence Group of Departments, a small effort at Defence Standards Laboratories is devoted to trials for evaluation of commercial herbicides in order to provide advice on the materials best suited for control of particular weed and plant growths; incidental to this work has been the determination of persistence of the control materials in the soil. For reference to overseas work on long-term ecological effects, I would refer you to my reply to Dr Everingham on 4th May 1970.

Conciliation and Arbitration Commission (Question No. 412)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is it a factthat in its 1959 Metal Trades Margins decision the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission declared that the true function of the Commission is to settle industrial disputes and, further, that the Commissioners are not national economic policy makers or planners.
  2. If so, why does the Commonwealth regularly make submissions to the Commission which are designed to encourage it to consider the economic consequences of its decisions rather than to place primary emphasis on its constitutional role as a dispute settler.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. In its 1959 Metal Trades Margins decision, the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission said as follows about the matter raised . . The true function of the Commission is to settle industrial disputes. In the settlement of disputes involving payment of wages, such as this one in which such issues have been raised, the Commission will bear in mind the various economic submissions made to it, including those about price rises and inflation; it will also bear in mind the fiscal and economic policies of the Government. It will not ignore the consequences to be expected from its actions but it will not deliberately create situations which would need rectification by Governmental action. It will not use its powers for the purposes of causing any particular economic result apart from altered wages although in the event the decision it makes may have other economic consequences. . . . ‘
  2. Reasons for the Commonwealth urging the Commission to have regard to economic consequences of its decisions have been frequently stated in submissions which the Commonwealth has made during its intervention in cases before the Commission. Briefly, the Commonwealth has stressed that in attempting to settle industrial disputes, decisions reached by the Commission should not be such as to have adverse effects on the economy which would be detrimental to the community generally as well as to the parties immediately concerned. The Government is in full accord with the following extract from the judgment of Dixon C.J. in the Queen v. Kelly Ex parte Australian Railways Union (89 CAR 461 at pp. 474-475):

While an arbitral tribunal deriving its authority under an exercise of the legislative power given by s. 51 (xxxv) must confine itself to conciliation and arbitration for the settlement of industrial disputes including what is incidental thereto and cannot have in its hands the general control or direction of industrial social or economic policies, it would beabsurd to suppose that it was to proceed blindly in its work of industrial arbitration and ignore the industrial social and economic consequences of what it was invited to do or of what, subject to the power of variation, it had actually done.’

Equal Pay (Question No. 802)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Was the decision of Commonwealth Hostels Limited to appeal to the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission against the decision of Mr Conciliation Commissioner E. J. Clarkson to award equal pay to females employed by Commonwealth Hostels Limited at migrant centres a matter that would fall within the area of policy decisions open to the Minister.
  2. If so, did his predecessor approve of the decision to lodge the appeal.
  3. Did Commonwealth Hostels Limited finally agree that some of the female workers whom the Conciliation Commissioner had awarded the male rate in 1968, were, in fact, entitled to such rate.
  4. Did Commonwealth Hostels Limited offer to make the phasing-in of the male rates for such females retrospective to the date of the Commissioner’s original order, in order that the full male rates would have operated from January 1970 instead of from January 1972.
  5. If not, why not.
  6. Is it a fact that it is not known who owns Commonwealth Hostels Limited.
  7. If so, will he make an effort to discover the ownership of the company and inform the House accordingly.
  8. Does he see any merit in amending the Conciliation and Arbitration Act in such a way as to prohibit the Commission from issuing a stay order against decisions under appeal except in those cases in which it is the intention of the Commission to determine the appeal with reasonable expedition.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) I am informed that there was consultation between officers of the Company and officers of my Department on this matter and it was agreed that the appeal be lodged.
  2. and (4) I would invite the honourable member’s attention to the answers I provided to parts (3) and (4) of Question No. 376 (Hansard pp. 1203-4).
  3. The question of the date of operation of the decision appealed against would normally be a matter for the bench appointed to hear the appeal. In the event the appeal did not proceed to a hearing because of the agreement reached the parties referred to in my answer to parts (3) and (4) of Question No. 376. Included in the agreement was that the phasing-in of equal pay for women employed under the Commonwealth Hostels Award who were eligible for equal pay should be in accordance with the phasing-in arrangements set out in the Commission’s Equal Pay decision of June ‘1969.
  4. and (7) The status of Commonwealth Hostels Limited is set out under part 5 of my answer to the honourable member’s question No. 376 reported at pages 1203 and 1204 of Hansard for 15th April 1970.
  5. No. I believe the Commission should be left with the discretion it now has in these matters.

Hostels (Question No. 376)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice

  1. ls it a fact that in February 1968, Mr Conciliation Commissioner E. J. Clarkson awarded equal pay to females employed by Commonwealth Hostels Limited at migrant hostels throughout Australia.
  2. Is it also a fact that Commonwealth Hostels Limited appealed against that decision and the Commission issued a stay order and then refused to consider the matter further until it had completed the 1969 equal pay case.
  3. Did Commonwealth Hostels Limited subsequently agree that certain of the female workers affected by the award of February 1968 were, in fact, entitled to equal pay but then refused pay and phasing-in retrospectivity to that date.
  4. Does this refusal to apply retrospectivity mean that the females concerned will not only lose the increased pay which, except for the appeal, would have operated as from February 1968, but also, instead of qualifying- for the full male rate as from January 1970, they must now wait until January 1972, before so qualifying.
  5. Is it a fact that Commonwealth Hostels Limited is wholly owned by the Commonwealth and is administered by his Department.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. In January 1968 Mr Commissioner E. J. Clarkson granted male and female workers employed under the Commonwealth Hostels Award wage increases on work value grounds and, in addition, granted female workers an increase equivalent to the differences between the former male and female basic wages and abolished interstate differences in wage rates for male and female workers. The Commissioner also granted to all workers employed under the award two weeks of paid sick leave foc each year of service subsequent to service of seven years.
  2. Commonwealth Hostels Limited appealed not only against the decision to award female workers a wage increase equivalent to the difference between the former male and female basic wages, but also against the decision to abolish the interstate differences between wage rates for male and female workers. The Company also applied for a stay of the two decisions until the appeal was heard.

The reason for the President of the Commission not setting the appeal down for hearing soon after the stay applications had been decided is apparent from the following extract from a decision handed down on 15th July 1968, in which the Commission, inter alia, extended stay orders previously granted:

I would like to add for myself as President that it should bc manifest to the industrial world and also to the representatives of the parties and especially to this particular union that it is impossible for me to set this down for hearing at present. It is not the wish of the organised employers or the organised trade unions that the two issues of equal rates for females and males and the abolition of interstate differentials be tested at this particular point of time. Indeed it will be clear - and I recommend to the union that it look at the transcript of today’s proceedings before Mr Senior Commissioner Taylor in regard to the forthcoming national wage case, where the representatives of the Australian Council of Trade Unions made it clear that the A.C.T.U. did not want the issue of equal pay for men and women or the abolition of interstate differentials decided at or even during the national wage cases which are going to commence on 6th August; they wanted those issues decided separately and later than that.

It will be seen therefore that it would be impracticable to the point of absurdity if I were to put this appeal down for hearing at the present time.’

  1. and (4) Commonwealth Hostels Limited and the Federated Liquor and Allied Industries Employees’ Union of Australia agreed that the phasing-in of equal pay for female workers eligible for equal pay should be in accordance with the decision of the Commission, in the Equal Pay Case, 1969. The Commission subsequently, at the request of the parties, handed down a consent award to this effect. Under the consent award female workers eligible for equal pay will receive the full male rate from and after January .1972. This is in accordance with the Commission’s decision in the Equal Pay Case, 1969.
  2. Commonwealth Hostels Limited is a Company incorporated in Victoria under the Victorian Companies Act as a Company Limited by Guarantee, and is registered in each other State as a Foreign Company. Being a Company Limited by Guarantee, it has no share capital and ownership cannot therefore be precisely determined. It would be true to say that the Company was incorporated to service a Commonwealth purpose, and that the agreement between the Commonwealth and the Company reserves certain policy decisions to me as Minister for Labour and National Service. The Company is, however, administered by a Board of Directors and Company officers, not by my Department.

Metal Trades: Female Process Workers (Question No. 803)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Why did the Commonwealth not intervene in opposition to the recent Metal Trades Employers’’ appeal against Mr Conciliation Commissioner T. C. Winter’s decision to increase rales of pay for female process workers in the metal trades industry.
  2. Is it a fact that neither the Commonwealth, the Public Service Board nor any Commonwealth instrumentality has ever intervened in arbitration proceedings to support claims for increased wage rates for females, but has on more than one occasion intervened or appealed against applications for increased wage rates for females.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Commonwealth intervenes in the public interest only in cases of major economic importance or in cases in which some major principle is to be considered. The appeal referred to by the honourable member was concerned with the question as to whether Mr Commissioner Winter properly observed equal pay principles laid down by the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission in its decision in the Equal Pay Case 1969 in which the Commonwealth intervened. As the honourable member will be aware, the Commission rejected the appeal.
  2. The only case dealing exclusively with claims for wage increases for female workers in which the Commonwealth intervened in recent years was the Equal Pay Case 1969. In this case the Commonwealth recommended the adoption of the principle of equal pay for equal work. The Public Service Board has never intervened in a case dealing exclusively with claims for increased wage rates for female workers, but appeared in the Equal Pay Case 1969 as a party when it supported the concept of equal pay recommended by the Commonwealth. Neither the Commonwealth nor the Public Service Board has ever appealed against a decision in a case which dealt exclusively with wage claims for female workers. To my knowledge no Commonwealth instrumentality has ever intervened or appealed against a decision in such a case. However the honourable member will be aware that Commonwealth Hostels Limited, a company limited by guarantee, appealed inter alia against a decision handed down by Commissioner Clarkson early in 1968 on wage rales for females employed under the Commonwealth Hostels Award.

Productivity (Question No. 2119)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Did he make a statement to the Committee for Economic Development of Australia that trends in productivity in a particular industry do not justify wage increases in that industry.
  2. If so, in what way will his statement encourage unions and their members to increase productivity in particular industries.
  3. Would unions and their members receive a greater inducement to co-operate with management in securing higher productivity if the granting of wage increases in particular industries were related to the movements of increased productivity in such industries instead of lying wage increases in those industries to the national pattern of productivity.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1)Yes. As a matter of equity all wage and salary earners should share in the benefits of increased productivity and this is achieved through national wage cases.

  1. and (3) There is an inducement for individual unions and their members to co-operate with management in securing higher productivity in particular industries because by doing so they will increase the capacity of the economy to sustain real wage increases from which everybody benefits.

Interdepartmental Committee: Resettlement of Members of Forces (Question No. 1413)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

On what dates have there been meetings of the inter-departmental committee established to consider resettlement in civilian life of members of the Permanent Forces.

Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

As the honourable member will know, it is not the policy of this Government to disclose the type of information for which the honourable member asks.

Vietnam: Care of Children of Australian Parentage (Question No. 2050)

Dr Cass:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to an Australian Broadcasting Commission news report of Sunday, 1st February 1970, concerning the children of Australian servicemen in Vietnam and the claim by the National Director of Public Relations for the Australian Red Cross that 9 out of 11 of these children have died ot malnutrition and respiratory diseases in an orphanage outside Saigon run by nuns who do not receive any help from the Vietnamese, American or Australian Governments, but exist solely on charity and gifts from Australian and American soldiers.
  2. If so, was this report investigated.
  3. What was the result of the investigation.
  4. If the claims were substantiated, did or will, the Government take steps to alleviate the situation of these children whose welfare should be the responsibility of this country.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

Following reports in the Press during 1969 that the An Phong orphanage at Vung Tau housed children of Australian parentage, these allegations were carefully investigated. None of the children there born since 1965 was positively identified as having an Australian father.

The matter has been further investigated following the ABC news report. Of 240 children in the orphanage at the time of the enquiries, only 6 were considered to be part Caucasian. No evidence was found to confirm that any of these 6 are of Australian parentage.

It should be borne in mind that Vung Tau has been a base and leave centre for members of the armed forces of several countries other than Australia.

Irrespective of their parentage, the plight of all children at the orphanage has not gone unheeded and as a humanitarian gesture, the Australian forces at Vung Tau have provided substantial assistance by way of voluntary donations to the orphanage.

Vietnam Citizen Forces (Question No. 1749)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What number of personnel from each rank of each of the Citizen Forces (a) volunteered, and (b) was accepted for service in Vietnam in each year since Australia’s commitment to the Vietnam war was a battalion, or greater.
  2. What number of these personnel served in each Corps or Branch of each of the Services.
  3. What were the main reasons for rejecting any Citizen Forces volunteers seeking to serve in Vietnam.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is:

Questions 1 (a) and (3) With the limited exceptions in the case of the RAN and RAAF referred to in the answer to 1 (b) below, the Services do not maintain detailed records of those members of the Citizen and Reserve Forces undertaking fulltime duty with the Permanent Forces who may have volunteered for service in Vietnam.

Questions 1 (b) and (2)-

NAVY

Four Citizen Naval Force Officers (Lieutenant-Commander) and 2 Medical Officers (one Surgeon Captain and one Surgeon Commander) were accepted for full time duty during the period 1966 to 1970 specifically for service in Vietnam. The first group were employed on sea transport duties and the latter were attached to the 1st Australian Field Hospital during 1970.

Four Citizen Naval Force sailors on full time duty served on HMA ships in Vietnam waters during 1969 and 1970.

ARMY

The following are details of CMF full-time duty members (94 officers and 25 NCO’s and other ranks) who have served in Vietnam:

  1. A IR FORCE

Twelve officers ofthe Citizen Air Force have volunteered and been accepted for service in Vietnam, viz.:

Nine Citizen Air Force Airmen have served in Vietnam:

Workers’ Compensation: Migrants (Question No. 727)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Under which Commonwealth, Territory and State laws can workers’ compensation be awarded to dependants who live in another State, Territory or country.
  2. What recommendation was made on this subject at the meeting of the Departments of Labour Advisory Committee on 8th April 1970.
  3. What other requests or suggestions were made at that meeting for legislative or administrative action by (a) the Commonwealth, (b) the Territories and (c) the States.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) 1 am advised as follows:

Workers’ compensation can be awarded to dependants who live in another State, Territory or country under the laws of New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania, the Australian Capital Territory, the Northern Territory and the Commonwealth. Restrictions in the New South Wales and Western Australian legislation on payment of compensation for dependants residing in another country were removed by amendments to the legislation which came into effect on 3rd December 1970 and 8th May 1970, respectively. The position in Queensland is that the Queensland Government has decided that when amendments to the Workers’ Compensation Acts are next introduced, they will include provision to remove existing restrictions on the payment of compensation to dependants in a foreign country of workers killed or injured in Queensland and that, pending appropriate amendments to those Acts, compensation will be paid to dependants domiciled in a foreign country of workers killed or injured in Queensland. Thus treatment of dependants of workers killed or injured in Australia is uniform in the sense that compensation benefits extend to those dependants in another country or in a State or Territory other than that where the worker was killed or injured.

National Service: Alternative Scheme (Question No. 1792)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

Did he, in his official Press release of 12th June 1970, admit that his earlier announced scheme for civilian service as an alternative to national service would probably not be acceptable under International Labour Organisation Conventions and would have no constitutional basis; if so, why did he advocate such a proposal before he had properly examined its legality and TLO acceptability.

Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

No. In my statement of 12th June last, in which 1 announced that Cabinet after long consideration had been unable to find a civilian alternative to national service which it considers is both equitable and practicable, I set out some of the key criteria which the Government considers an alternative must satisfy in Australia. Among other things 1 said:

Constitutional difficulties must be avoided and the provisions of international Conventions on forced labour which Australia has ratified not breached. A scheme which would provide civilian service as an alternative for all national service registrants could be construed as “man power” control, in which case there would not be a constitutional basts for it at the present time, and would probably not be acceptable under the ILO Conventions.’

National Service (Question No. 1802)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. How many people have been proceeded against (a) in court and (b) otherwise for failing to register for national service in each year since the current scheme of national service training commenced.
  2. What was the nature of the action taken against those people who were proceeded against other than in court.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) The National Service Act imposes a universal liability on men in the relevant agegroup to register for national service when required to do so. Except in the case of men absent from Australia at that time, this is in the half year in which they reach 20 years of age.

Men liable to register who fail to do so at the required time are not eligible to be included in the ballot and are liable to prosecution.

In each year since the inception of the present national service scheme proceedings for failure to register have been initiated against the following numbers of men:

Secondary School Scholarships (Question No. 2222)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

  1. How many scholarships have been awarded to (a) government and (b) private schools in the Australian Capital Territory each year since the introduction of secondary school scholarships.
  2. What sums in fees covered by the scholarships have been paid to each of these schools in each of those years.
Mr N H Bowen:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– The answers to the honourable member’s questions are as follows:

  1. Under the Commonwealth Secondary Scholarship Scheme separate quotas of scholarships are not allocated to particular schools. Within each State scholarships are awarded to individual students on merit. Students in New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory compete within the same quota of awards. The following numbers of scholarships have been awarded each year to students who, at the time they competed, were enrolled at government and non-government schools in the Australian Capital Territory:
  1. Commonwealth Secondary scholarship benefits, including reimbursement of compulsory fees up to a maximum of $150 per year, are paid to the parents of each scholar and not to the school. Summaries are not maintained of scholarships expenditure by school. However, a study has been made of the fees payments in respect of one group of Secondary scholarship holders, namely those enrolled, in the final secondary year in 1970. The expenditure on fees allowance for these scholars was as follows:

In addition to receiving reimbursement of fees, the parents of all Commonwealth Secondary scholarship holders also receive a living allowance of $200 per annum and an allowance of $50 per annum towards the cost of textbooks and equipment. These two allowances are not subject to a means test and the same amounts are paid in respect of all scholarship holders, whether they attend a government or a non-government school.

Northern Territory: Teaching Service (Question No. 2195)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for Edu cation and Science, upon notice:

  1. Does his announcement that the Commonwealth intends to set up a teaching service for the Northern Territory mean that there will also be an Education Department along the lines of a State Education Department for the Northern Territory. (2)If so, will this be a branch of the Department of Education and Science.
  2. Did his predecessor state that a separate education authority for the Australian Capital Territory is inevitable; if so, is it intended that his Department will also administer this authority.
Mr N H Bowen:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) The Commonwealth Teaching Service is being established to provide security and mobility for teachers in Commonwealth operated school systems. While it is true that the decision to create a Commonwealth Teaching Service arose from the South Australian decision to withdraw its teachers over a period of five years from community schools in the Northern Territory, its creation of itself does not have any effect on the administrative responsibilities in respect of education in the Northern Territory or in other Commonwealth Territories.
  2. I and my predecessors have agreed that, at some time, the present partnership between New South Wales and the Commonwealth would have to be replaced. As 1 mentioned in my Press statement of 12th October 1970, what is at issue is the timing and form of administration. I am not in a position to say whether the administration will be conducted by a Government department or by a statutory education authority.

Canberra Scholarships (Question No. 2223)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for Edu cation and Science, upon notice:

What was the (a) number and (b) aggregate value in each group of Canberra Scholarships for undergraduate education awarded each year since 1958-59 to (i) male and (ii) female pupils in (A) government and (B) non-government schools in the Australian Capital Territory and (C) government and (D) non-government schools outside the Territory.

Mr N H Bowen:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Until 1967 the awards to which the honourable member is referring were made under the scheme known as the Canberra Scholarship Scheme. From the beginning of 1968, coinciding with the entry to university of the first group of students who attempted the Higher School Certificate examination, the awards have been known as University Scholarships in the Australian Capital Territory. The new scheme makes available a smaller number of awards with higher benefits than the Canberra Scholarship Scheme. The number of students who accepted scholarships in the years 1958-1970 is as follows: (In a small number of cases, a few students who accepted awards in the years shown elected to defer their scholarship and to commence studies in the following year.)
  1. The benefits under both the Canberra Scholarship Scheme and the University Scholarship Scheme in the Australian Capital Territory comprise payment of compulsory tuition and service fees for the university course taken and an allowance free of means test. The allowances are:

Students may hold awards at either the Australian National University or other universities, but are eligible to receive the higher rate of benefits only if their course is not available at the Australian National University. The aggregate value of each group of new awards is not available. The total expenditure on scholarship benefits under the schemes in each financial year since 1958-59 has been:

Commonwealth Industrial Court (Question No. 1554)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Is the Commonwealth Industrial Court, in penal proceedings for a breach of a strike-ban, permitted to examine the validity of such a provision in an award.
  2. If not, is it a fact that the opinion of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission in relation to its power is binding on the Industrial Court.
  3. If the Commission has such a power, does this deny the Court the right to exercise a judicial power reserved to it under the Constitution.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– I am advised that the answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) Sub-section (1) of section 60 of the Conciliation and Arbitration Act provides:

Subject to this Act, an award (including an award made on appeal) -

is final and conclusive;

shall not be challenged, appealed against, reviewed, quashed or called in question in any court; and

is not subject to prohibition, mandamus or injunction in any court on any account.

In Clothing and Allied Trades Union of Australia v. Cocks, 12 F.L.R. 138, two Judges of the Commonwealth Industrial Court in a joint judgment held that this sub-section debarred the Court from considering the validity of a sub-clause of an award the validity of which was challenged. They came to this decision having regard to’ the slate of legal authority at the time. In the subsequent case of R v. Commonwealth Industrial Court; ex pate Cocks, Trading as Australian Dry Cleaning, 43 A.L.J.R. 32, the comments of some of the Justices of the High Court indicated that the subsection might not impose such a restriction upon the Commonwealth Industrial Court.

Aboriginals (Question No. 1716)

Mr Barnard:
BASS, TASMANIA

asked the Minister-in-

Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. How many government schools are there in Australia where the pupils are all Aboriginal children.
  2. In which Stale or Territory is each of these schools.
  3. How distant is each from the nearest government school.
  4. Do any Aboriginal settlements have two government schools, one for. Aboriginal children and one for children of white workers.
  5. If so, why does his Office tolerate this form of discrimination.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows. This information has been provided by the relevant State authorities.

page 224

NEW SOUTH WALES

The following schools have entirely Aboriginal enrolments:

Cabbage Tree Island - 7 miles from Ballina.

Green Hill - 3 miles from Kempsey.

Cummeragunga - 17 miles from Moama.

Nanima- 4 miles from Wellington.

Nulla Creek - 9 miles from Bellbrook.

Toomelah - 10 miles from Boggabilla.

Wirajarai - 6 miles from Moree.

Walhallow - 2 miles from Caroona.

No settlements have two schools, one for Aboriginal children and one for children of white workers.

page 224

VICTORIA

There are no segregated schools in Victoria.

page 224

QUEENSLAND

As pupils in Queensland government schools are not identified by race, it is not possible to identify any school which has only Aboriginal children. Woorabinda and Palm Island have provisional schools, but children, irrespective of racial origin, areeligible to attend the provisional school dependent upon the availability of accommodation and development. These schools will cease when alternative facilities become available in a single conventional unit. Children of all racial origins have attended each of these two schools.

page 224

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

There are several instances of schools where all the pupils attending such schools are of Aboriginal descent but this is because there are no European children of school-going age who are resident on the Aboriginal Reserves and Church Missions where these schools are built.

page 224

WESTERN AUSTRALIA

There are no schools in Western Australia where the pupils are intentionally all Aboriginal.

In a number of instances this may occur due to lack of while population in the area but usually the children of teachers or staff members working at Missions, etc., are also in attendance although in a minority.

Schools in this State which may have an all or very heavy preponderance of Aboriginal students are:

No town, mission or pastoral property has two schools, one for Aboriginal children and the other for while children, in this State.

page 224

TASMANIA

Cape Barren Island has a primary school of twelve children who are all Islanders. Although there are at present no European children on the Island, in the past children of European settlers have attended this school. The nearest State area school is on Flinders Island, about 40 miles distant. Some Island children of secondary school age attend private schools, as well as State high schools.

page 224

NORTHERN TERRITORY

The information for this answer has been provided by my colleague the Minister for the Interior.

Schools on Missions and settlements are listed below. Children of staff members may elect to attend these special schools or schools in community areas for which boarding allowances may be made. 181 European children attend 31 of the 55 special schools.

Commonwealth schools on settlements and pastoral properties:

Docker River - 400 miles from Alice Springs.

Haast Bluff - 180 miles from Alice Springs.

Jay Creek - 28 miles from Alice Springs.

Lake Nash - 63 miles from Camooweal, Queensland.

Napperby - 140 miles from Alice Springs.

Ti-Tree - 120 miles from Alice Springs.

Utopia - 150 miles from Alice Springs.

Willowra - 180 miles from Alice Springs.

Neutral Junction - 127 miles from Tennant Creek.

Rockhampton Downs - 130 miles from Tennant Creek.

Newcastle Waters - 16 miles from Elliott.

Elsey - 22 miles from Mataranka.

Roper River - 110 miles from Mataranka.

Urapunga - 150 miles from Mataranka.

Umbakumba - 30 miles from Alyangula.

Booroloola - 350 miles fromKatherine.

Beseick Station - 80 miles fromKatherine.

Mainoru - 150 miles fromKatherine.

Monteginnie - 120 miles from Katherine.

Wave Hill - 170 miles fromKatherine.

Bagot - 1 mile from Ludmilla School, Darwin.

Mission Schools

Santa Teresa - 60 miles from Alice Springs.

Port Keats - 150 miles from Darwin.

Subsidised Schools

Brunette Downs - 160 miles from Tennant Creek.

There arc no Aboriginal settlements in the Northern Territory which have two government schools.

Defence Services (Question No. 1753)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What were the strengths (a) authorised and (b) actually reached -for each (i) commissioned and (ii) non-commissioned rank in each of the Services in each of the last 5 years.
  2. Can he supply comparable figures for any part of the current year.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

The following tables give the authorised strength (a) and actual strengths (b) by rank for each of the Services over the last 5 years and to 30th September 1970.

Defence Serv ices (Question No. 1750)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. What is the estimated cost of training an officer for each of the Armed Services.
  2. How many years of service after graduation does the Department estimate that it takes to recoup the outlay involved in training these officers.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Services estimate the costs of officer training as follows:
  1. There is no valid means of establishing an officer’s value to the Service in monetary terms. The training of officers is undertaken on the basis of tilting them for permanent careers with their respective Services.

Courts with Federal Jurisdiction (Question No. 1731)

Mr Whitlam:

m asked the Attorney-General, upon notice:

How many (a) judges and (b) magistrates in each State sit in State courts which have been invested with federal jurisdiction.

Mr Hughes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. New South Wales- 34 Supreme Court and 26 District Court judges

Victoria - 17 Supreme Court and 21 County Court judges

Queensland - 13 Supreme Court and 12 District Court judges

South Australia - 8 Supreme Court and 6 Local Court judges

Western Australia - 7 Supreme Court judges and 4 District Court judges

Tasmania - 5 Supreme Court judges.

  1. New South Wales- 85 stipendiary magistrates

Victoria - 49 stipendiary magistrates

Queensland - 55 stipendiary magistrates

South Australia - 22 stipendiary and 7 special magistrates and 3 Justices of the Peace specially authorised by the Governor-General to exercise judicially - federal jurisdiction

Western Australia - 27 stipendiary magistrates

Tasmania - 9 stipendiary magistrates.

Pensions (Question No. 1796)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

Can he provide an estimate of the cost of providing full pensions to the wives of age and invalid pensioners whore they are not now eligible for reasons other than those connected with the meanstest, and where the adjustments are made (a) immediately (b) by phasing in by equal increments over 3 years and (c) by phasing in by equal increments over 6 years.

Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows:

Based on the present number of non-pensioner wives of pensioners, including wives receiving wives’ allowances, it is estimated that the proposal would cost some $7. 5m a year. This total cost would remain the same irrespective of whether the adjustments were made immediately or by equal increments over a period of 3 or 6 years. In the. latter event, of course, the cost each year, until the proposal became fully operative, would be higher than that of the preceding year by onethird or one-sixth of the total cost.

In arriving at the estimate of $7.5m it has been assumed that the proposal would involve reducing the husband’s pension in each case by $1.75 a week, i.e. from the standard rate to the married rate, and cancelling supplementary assistance, where payable.

Value of Pensions (Question No. 1806)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

Will he bring up . to date the information supplied on 14th May 1969 in answer to my question No. 1170 relating to the value of pensions.

Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

Since my answer of. last year, the Commonwealth Statistician has compiled a new Gross National Product series .’at constant prices covering the period 1948-49 to 1969-70. The series is comprised of three overlapping series, one at average prices of 1953-54 (1948-49 to 1959-60), one at average prices of 19.59-60 (1953-54 to 1966-67) and one at average prices of 1966-67 (1959-60 to 1969-70). These series have been linked on the basis of the’ earliest possible years (1953-54 and 1959-60) and the continuous series thus obtained is included id the table” below.

Pensioners (Question No. 1938)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

  1. Did he in his second reading speech on the Social Services Bill (No. 2) 1970 refer to local authorities providing rebates in rates for pensioners and other necessitous persons.
  2. Is he able to state the number of local Authorities in each State and the number which allow rale rebates, and identify those which do allow these concessions and the conditions under which they are provided.
  3. Can he indicate the” total number of ratepayers in respect of each local authority and the number granted concessions’.
  4. Is he also able tq : state the total rate income for each local authority and the cost of concessions to it.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. to’ “(4) Except in respect of New South Wales, little of the information requested by the honourable member is readily available. For New South Wales, the annual report of the Department of Local Government for the year 1968-69. the latest report published to date, contains information as to the number of local authorities, the local authorities granting rebates to pensioners and the cost to each authority of rebates granted during the year. In addition, the Local Government Statistical Register for New South Wales, published by the Bureau of Census and Statistics, Sydney, provides details of the total rate income of each local authority. The latest Register available was published in 1969 in respect of the year 1965.

If the above information in respect of New South Wales would be useful to the honourable member, it can be provided.

Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission (Question No. 1962)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the AttorneyGeneral, upon notice: ls it anticipated that the Publications Officer recently appointed to edit Commonwealth Arbitration Reports will be able to (a) keep pace with future decisions of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission and (b) catch up the backlog in the publication of these reports.

Mr Hughes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows:

  1. and (b) No. As foreshadowed in my answer to a previous question on notice by the honourable member (Question No. 467 - see Hansard for 39th August 1970, page 223), a further review of staffing needs in this area has been undertaken. This will be followed by appropriate action.

Pensioners (Question No. 2008)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

  1. How many invalid pensioners were there in Australia in each of the past 10 years.
  2. How many of these pensioners (a) sought and (b) were rejected for Commonwealth rehabilitation training in each of those years.
  3. What were the grounds of rejection.
  4. How many people other than pensioners sought rehabilitation training in these same years.
  5. Were the means of support of these people derived from (a) private or (b) public sources.
  6. How many of these people were rejected.
  7. What were the grounds of rejection.
  8. How many (a) Invalid pensioners and (b) other persons who were rejected for training were eligible for sheltered workshop employment.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows:

  1. Current at 30 June 1970.

1968 .. .. 114,745

1969 .. .. 121,744

1970 .. .. 133,766

  1. (a) Invalid pensioners are not required .individually to seek rehabilitation from the Commonwealth, Case records of all persons in the workingage group newly granted invalid pensions are referred by Departmental sources to the Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service for consideration of rehabilitation assistance. Numbers of invalid pensioners, referred in this way to the Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service during the past 10 years are as follows:

page 229

COMMONWEALTH REHABILITATION SERVICE

page 229

INVALID PENSIONERS REFERRED FOR REHABILITATION

page 229

COMMONWEALTH REHABILITATION SERVICE

page 229

INVALID PENSIONERS REJECTED FOR REHABILITATION

There must also be reasonable prospects of the individual engaging in a suitable vocation within three years after the commencement of rehabilitation treatment or training.

Pensioners failing to meet the above requirements are not accepted for rehabilitation assistance.

Provisions also exist under the Act for acceptance, on a paying basis, of persons who are ineligible for rehabilitation as a ‘free’ service. This group includes private cases (for whom charges are made in accordance wilh capacity to pay) and cases sponsored by governmental and other organisations such as insurance companies.

As with invalid pensioners, persons included in groups (i) and (ii) above are not required to seek rehabilitation assistance as referrals of selected cases are made from within the Department to the Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service for consideration.

Adolescents, aged 14 and 15 years and paying cases are generally referred to the Commonwealth Rehabilitation Service by sources from outside the Department, e.g. by medical practitioners, hospital’ authorities, social workers, voluntary agencies, Government departments, trade unions, employer bodies and private individuals.

Numbers in these various groups, referred for or seeking rehabilitation assistance during the past 10 years are as follows:

‘(7) (a) Widow pensioners, unemployment, sickness and special beneficiaries, tuberculosis allowees and adolescents aged 14 and 15 years are chosen for rehabilitation assistance under the same conditions applicable to invalid pensioners (see answer to part 3, above).

Persons included in (a) and (b) failing to meet the above requirements are not accepted for rehabilitation assistance.

In appropriate cases the opportunities for sheltered employment are explained to such persons and they may be assisted to contact one or more workshops. However, whether or not they seek, or are accepted for sheltered employment, is a matter for them to decide and to negotiate with the voluntary organisations and other bodies that conduct sheltered workshops.

Tariff (Question No. 2035)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Minister for Labour and National Service, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the estimate in the annual report of the Tariff Board that tariff protection to Australian industries is costing the Australian economy up to $2.700m a year.
  2. Does this sum represent about $675 per year for each employed and self-employed person in the whole primary, secondary and tertiary Australian work force.
  3. Has he considered (al the effect of such protection on the purchasing power of wages and the consequential demand for increased wages, (b) the extent to which full employment is dependent upon the present level of protection and (c) the costcmployment benefit of the present level of protection.
  4. If not, is it his intention to consider these questions.
Mr Snedden:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The Tariff Board in its 1969-70 annual report slates that ‘if all tariff protection available to manufacturing industries in 1967-68 had been fully used, the iota! cost of the manufacturing processes would have been $2.700m greater than willi the same pattern of manufacturing and no tariffs’. However, this level of tariff protection is nol fully taken advantage of by all industries to which it is available and therefore the figure quoted in the Board’s report is simply notional.
  2. In view of the answer to (a), any per capita figure based on the $2,700m mentioned in the Board’s report would be meaningless.’
  3. and (4) I continually have in mind all factors - including levels of tariff protection - which affect productivity, living standards, employment, costs and prices.

Pensions (Question No. 2076)

Mr Reynolds:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

  1. ls an applicant for age or invalid pension required to disclose the disposal of any property made more than 5 years before the date of application for the pension.
  2. What procedure or formula is now used in depleting the value of any gift of property made by a pensioner whilst in receipt of a pension.
  3. Is the current procedure or formula more rigorous than was previously imposed.
  4. If so in what way and why was the change made.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. . (3) and (4) Where a claimant for pension has dispossessed himself of assets without appropriate consideration the practice is to place him, as far as possible, in the same position for pension purposes as if he had not disposed of the assets. In arriving at this position a reasonable allowance is made in respect of living expenses according to the individual circumstances of the particular case. This has been the general practice since the inception of the Department.

Social Services Malta - Reciprocal Agreement (Question No. 2083)

Mr Armitage:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

  1. Did he receive a deputation from a representative group of Maltese earlier this year and at the time state that he hoped to introduce some aspects of a reciprocal agreement on social services with Malta.
  2. If so. did he inform the deputation that he hoped to be able to make some announcement on the matter about the lime of the 1970 Federal Budget.
  3. Has a decision yet been made; if not, when may it be-expected.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. and (3) Discussions related to the question of a reciprocal agreement on social security with the Maltese Government have not yet been completed.

Taxation (Question No. 2184)

Mr Garrick:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that the vast majority of Australian citizens pay for their access roads by way of rates and charges which are allowable as taxation deductions.
  2. If so, will he consider taking steps to extend the same privilege to those people whose properties are on private roads for which they pay the whole cost.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. No information is available to me from which to estimate what proportion of Australian citizens pay for their access roads by way of rales and charges which are allowable as taxation deduction.
  2. Consideration has been given from time to time to allowing income tax deductions for capital contributions by private householders towards roadmaking charges. To dale the Government has not seen fit to propose the allowance of such contributions.

Income Tax Deductions (Question No. 2188)

Mr Webb:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. ls it a fact that while parents can claim tax deductions for the education expenses of full-time students under 21 years of age, no claim at all can be made by a student who must pay his own way through university, even if he is under 21 and studies full-time.
  2. If so, will he take steps to amend the tax law to correct this apparent injustice.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Subject to the qualifications set out in my answer to part (2) of Question 2’190, yes.
  2. The matter has been considered many times, the most recent being in the context of preparing (he 1970-71 Budget. It will be kept under review.

Income Tax (Question No. 2189)

Mr Webb:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. ls it a fact that once a student turns 21 all tax deductions on his behalf cease, yet the average age of completing every university degree course is above 21 years of age.
  2. Does this mean that students in their final years, on the verge of entering Australian industry and the professions, suddenly find all financial assistance and incentives under the present lau removed.
  3. If so, will he take steps to amend the tax law to correct this apparent injustice.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Subject to the qualifications set out in my answer to part (2) of Question No. 2190, yes.
  2. No. Such students continue to benefit by the considerable financial assistance provided by the Commonwealth and Slate Government to Universities and other comparable institutions and are, presumably, subject to the same incentives as before lo increase their income-earning capacity.
  3. The question of increasing the present age limit of 21 years has been examined from time to time, without any decision having been taken to amend the law. lt will be kept under review.

Income Tax (Question No. 2190)

Mr Webb:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that neither part-time students nor their parents can claim any deduction under section 82J of the Income Tax Assessment Act.
  2. Is it a fact that a certain category of parttime student whose study revolves around an improvement of his capacity to do work for which he is paid can successfully claim under section 51 (1.) of the Act according to a decision of Sir Owen Dixon, C.J.
  3. If so, will he take steps to enable all parttime students to claim this deduction.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. The general provisions of the income tax law authorise deductions for expenditure incurred in producing assessable income, but specifically preclude the allowance of deductions for outgoings which are of a capital, private or domestic nature. Decisions of Taxation Boards of Review have established that expenditure incurred by a taxpayer on a course of study, whether part-time or full-time, for the purpose of acquiring professional or academic qualifications, or lo enable him to enlarge his income capacity by the acquisition of additional qualifications, is of a capital nature and not deductible for income lax purposes.

However, it has also been established that a taxpayer who incurs expenditure on a course of study undertaken for the purpose of keeping abreast of developments in his existing occupation or employment may be entitled lo a deduction under section 51(1) of the Assessment Act on the ground that it is incurred in the production of his assessable income and is not of a capital or private nature. ‘

Accordingly, as the law now stands, the question whether education expenses incurred by a taxpayer on his own education are allowable tax deductions has to be determined on the particular facts of each case.

  1. The question of amending the law to allow all taxpayers a deduction for their own education expenses regardless of the purpose for which they are incurred will be kept under review.

Income Tax Deductions (Question No. 2191)

Mr Webb:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that while universities increased all fees by 50 per cent to about $450 in the last 4 years, the concessional deduction for income tax purposes has remained static at $300.
  2. If so, will he take steps to amend the tax law to allow for a larger deduction.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. I am aware that during the past 4 years increases, varying as between universities and faculties, have occurred in university fees. These -creases, although significant, have not, according to the information at my disposal, been of the order suggested by the honourable member.
  2. The question of increasing the maximum deduction for education expenses was considered when the 1970-71 Budget was in preparation but in the light of the budgetary position the Government did not feel able to propose the increase. The matter will be kept under review.

Aboriginals (Question No. 2233)

Mr Cross:
BRISBANE. QLD

asked the Minister-in-Charge of Aboriginal Affairs, upon notice:

  1. Has the Commonwealth contributed to the cost of any science block or library in any secondary school in any Aboriginal or Island community in Australia; if so, where and to what extent.
  2. Has the Commonwealth assisted in the provision of library facilities in any primary school in any Aboriginal or Island community in Australia; if so, where and to what extent.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. and (2) Within the grants to the States for education projects, a sum of $17,000 was allocated in the 1969-70 financial year for school libraries at the following centres in Queensland:

New schools at Bamaga, Palm Island, Doomadgee and Lockhart River in Queensland were financed to the extent of $509,666 over the last two financial years. No money was allocated for science blocks at any school.

Capital Resources (Question No. 2243)

Dr Everingham:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

asked the Treasurer, upon notice:

  1. Did he state in his Press release No. 96 of 15th October 1970, that some 90 per cent of Australia’s capital resources are provided by domestic savings.
  2. If so, is he able to say what are the estimated percentages involved in (a) dwellings, (b) public securities, savings accounts and fixed deposits, (c) non-equity commercial investment and (d) equity investments which have doubled their value in the past 6 years or less, assuming maximum capital growth options are availed of.
  3. Is he also able to say what are the corresponding percentages of the approximate 10 per cent of capital from overseas sources.
  4. Can he give comparable figures for each Australian territory.
Mr Bury:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. 1 indicated that, over the years, this has been the position on average.
  2. , (3) and (4) The contribution which domestic savings have made to Australia’s capital resources was estimated by deducting from total private and public investment spending, including the change in the value of stocks, the amount of the current account deficit on the balance of payments. (That deficit provides a measure of the extent to which total capital spending has been financed by an increase in Australia’s overseas indebtedness.) The estimated contribution by domestic savings, derived in this way, was expressed as a percentage of total investment. It is not possible to dissect the balance of payments current account deficit amongst different categories of investment spending, and as a consequence it is not possible to provide such a dissection of the derived estimate of the contribution which domestic savings have made to capital resources. The information requested is, therefore, not available.

Pensions (Question No. 2248)

Mr Everingham:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

  1. Has he received requests from a Dr KentHughes who examines applicants for invalid pensions to (a) provide a 50 per cent pension for slow or part-time workers, (b) ease the rule penalising work by invalid pensioners, (c) reduce the rate of disability required to qualify for a pension from 85 per cent to 75 per cent, (d) remove the rule that the nature of the work must not be considered, since a lost limb or a bad heart can make a labourer but not a clerk unemployable, and (e) make the pension adequate for those needing continuous nursing.
  2. Will these requests be considered when formulating the 1971 budget or a supplementary budget to increase the purchasing power of pensions beyond their present declining levels.
Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Dr Kent-Hughes has made representations on this and other topics from time to time.
  2. The amount of the standard rate pension rose by 19 per cent between the time the present Government assumed office and 30th September 1970. In the same period the consumer price index rose by 9 per cent. Thus the increase in the pension rate for this period was about double that necessary to maintain purchasing power as measured by the consumer price index. Along with other welfare policy questions, invalid pension conditions will be considered when social service benefits are being reviewed.

Postal Department: 5-day Week (Question No. 1302)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that on 19th October 1967 he and the Minister for Labour and National Service, together with the Director-General of Posts and Telegraphs and the Secretary, Department of Labour and National Service, entered into an informal understanding with the chief officers ot the Australian Council of Trade Unions, the Amalgamated Postal Workers Union, the Australian Postmasters Association and the Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists to direct every effort towards reaching agreement on the operation of the 5-day week principle within the Post Office.
  2. lt is also a fact that since that date his Department has refused to enter into meaningful negotiations for the 5-day week with the unions concerned and that on 20th May 1970 the First Assistant Commissioner of the Public Service Board stated that he had the authority of the Postmaster-General’s Department to announce that the spreading of ordinary hours of duty over 5i days. Monday to Saturday, in post offices should continue.
  3. If so. did the statement of the First Assistant Commissioner correctly report his Department’s decision.
Sir Alan Hulme:
LP

– The answer to the honourable members question is as follows: (I), (2) and (3) At a meeting wilh the Australian Council of Trade Unions and the relevant Unions on 15th July 1970, the Board and my Department indicated that in principle they accept the concept of a 5-day week Monday to Friday or 5 shifts within a- calendar week, where such working arrangements, within the framework of the 40-hour week, ate shown to be practicable and without detriment to the services (including trading hours) and the standards of service to the public to he provided.

Agreement was also reached between , the parties on the establishment of, 4 . Joint Working Parties to undertake detailed analyses of the practical effect, within the above framework, of the ACTU proposals.

Following examination of the Working Party Reports, the Board and my Department met the ACTU and Postal Unions on 21st October 1970, and offered to introduce, within the framework of the existing standard working week of 40 hours, working arrangements based on ‘ ordinary duty over 5 days or 5 shifts per week for all staff in the Post Office not already working on this basis.

The Postal Unions asked for time to consider the of re rs a nit a further meeting was held on 12th November 1970. The outcome was that some Unions accepted and others rejected the offer. Discussions are to proceed, between the parties on a bilateral basis in relation to some remaining aspects of the Unions’ claims.

Postal Department: Five Day Week (Question No. 1303)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice:

  1. Does the opposition by the Public Service Board to the introduction of the 5-day week in post offices meet with the approval of the Government.
  2. Is it a fact that about 6 months ago the Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists asked his Department to make a survey of post office trading on Saturday morning but that the processing of the survey is still unfinished.
Sir Alan Hulme:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (.1) At a meeting with representatives of the Australian Council of Trade Unions and the relevant Postal Unions on 15th July 1970, the Board and my Department indicated that in principle they accept the concept of a 5-day week Monday to Friday or 5 shifts within a calendar week, where such working arrangements, within the framework of the 40 hour week are shown to be practicable and without detriment to the services (including trading hours) and the standards of service to the public lo be provided.

Agreement was also reached between the parties at the -meeting on the establishment of 4 Joint Working- Parties-to undertake detailed analyses of the practical effect, within the above framework, of the ACTU proposals.

A further meeting of parties was held on 21st October .1970, at. which the Board and Department announced that following extensive investigations of the working parlies studies, they had concluded that it .was practicable lo accept in full the ACTU representations.

This means that the Board and me Department have offered to introduce within the framework of the existing standard working week of 40 horns, working arrangements based on ordinary duty over 5 days or 5 shifts per week for all staff in the Post Office not already working on this basis.

The Postal Unions asked for time to consider the offers and a further conference was held on 12lh November 1970. The outcome was thai some Unions accepted and others rejected the offer. Discussions are to proceed between the parties on a bilateral basis in relation to some remaining aspects of the Unions’ claims.

  1. On 24th September 1970, I announced that current Saturday trading hours at post offices would continue. The survey on Saturday trading showed that there was still a substantial number of people requiring postal services on Saturdays. Taking account also of other commercial practices and services to the community, the Government decided not to alter the present trading hours.

Postal Department: Saturday Opening (Question No. 1304)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Postmaster-

General, upon notice:

  1. Did the Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists offer to agree to an extension of money order services on Fridays and to carry on general services on Friday until 6 p.m. as an alternative to opening post offices on Saturday.
  2. Did the Union also offer to continue to work on Saturdays in those post offices in which the existing volume of Saturday trading indicated that a 5-day week would cause inconvenience to large numbers of customers and disruption of services due to overloading of staff on Fridays.
Sir Alan Hulme:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. The Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists proposed that trading hours be reduced from 9 a.m.-11 a.m. to 9 a.m.-10 a.m. on Saturdays at post offices where trading figures indicated a strong demand for service.

On 24th September 1970, in response to representations from various staff associations for the closing of Post Offices and reduction in trading hours, I announced that following a survey conducted of the business transacted at Post Offices, the Government bad decided that Saturday trading hours at Post Offices would continue.

Postal Department: 5-Day Week (Question No. 1305)

Mr Clyde Cameron:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

asked the Postmas ter-General, upon notice:

  1. Is it a fact that the Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists has asked his Department to sample public opinion on Friday evening trading in post offices and that nothing has yet been done to accede to the request.
  2. Is it also a fact that as an alternative to one

Say of their stopwork programme next week the Union offered to co-operate in conducting a practical test and survey of public opinion by arranging for money order services to be available from 3.30 p.m. to 6 p.m. on the Friday and for ordinary trading to be extended from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. with an equivalent time deducted from trading on Saturday morning.

  1. If so, did Mr N. McDonald, representing the Director-General of Posts and Telegraphs, tell representatives of the Union that the Department was not geared for such a test even if the Union Was able and willing to carry out such a test of public requirements.
Sir Alan Hulme:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) The Union of Postal Clerks and Telegraphists did request that public opinion be sampled regarding extension of Friday evening trading in post offices. This request was received at the time that a general market survey was being conducted by the Department of customer attitudes to postal services. On 24th September 1970, I announced that following the abovementioned survey, which showed that there was still a substantial number of people requiring postal services on Saturdays, the Government had decided that Saturday trading hours at post offices would continue.

Interdepartmental Committees: Health (Question No. 1426)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Health, upon notice:

On what dates have there been meetings of the interdepartmental committees established to consider (a) public health and medical planning, (b) medical fees and health insurance and (c) drugs and therapeutic substances.

Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

CATEGORY (a)

Public Health and Medical Planning:

  1. A.C.T. Health Education Committee: 1967: 8 Dec. 1968: 5 Apr., 4 Oct., 8 Nov. 1969: 19 Sept. 1970: 20 Mar., 2 Oct.
  2. A.C.T. Hospital Planning and Other Projects Committee: 1968: 1 Nov., 3 Dec. 1969: 14 Feb., 11 Apr., 13 June, 1 Aug., 5 Sept., 21 Nov. 1970: 23 Feb., 10 Apr., 28 May, 24 July, 18 Sept., 20 Nov.
  3. Interdepartmental Committee on Darwin Garbage Control: 1966: 30 Mar. 1968: 24 Jan., 28 Feb., 3 Apr., 29 Oct., 10 Dec. 1969: 3 Mar., 23 Apr., 11 June, 16 Dec. 1970: 8 Apr.
  4. Interdepartmental Working Party on the Environment: 1970: 25 Aug., 25 Sept., 12 Oct., 25 Nov.
  5. Sanitation of Aerodromes Committee: 1952: 17 Jan. 1953: 12 Aug. 1954: 18 Nov. 1960: 24 Feb. 1961: 25 Oct. 1965: 14 Dec. 1966: 15 Nov.
  6. National Tuberculosis Advisory Council.

The first meeting of the Council was on 23 September 1949, andithas met frequently since that date. Since 1960, the meeting dates were: 1960: 26 Oct. 1962: 31. Jan. 1963: 22 Mar. 1964: 23 Apr. 1965: 6 Apr. 1966: 21 June. 1967: 27 June. 1968: 2 July. 1969: 3 June. 1970: 23 June.

CATEGORY (b)

Medical Fees and Health Insurance:

  1. Interdepartmental Committee on Medical Fees: The first meeting of the Committee was in April, 1953, and it has met regularly since that date.; Since 1960, the meeting dates were: 1960: 31 Jan., 28 Sept. 1963: 26 Sept. 1965: 9 Mar. 1966: 7 Feb. 1967: 23 June. 1968: 10 Apr. 1969: 14 Aug. 1970: 11 Feb.
  2. Registration Committee of Funds: The first meeting of the Committee was in May 1953 and it has met frequently since that date, in 1970 meetings were held on: 16 Jan., 25 Mar., 16 Apr., 29 Apr., 1 May, 6 May, 12 May, 18 May, 22 May, 1 June, 16 June, 25 June, 3 July, 30 July, 19 Aug., 31 Aug., 16 Sept., 1 Oct., 30 Oct., 9 Nov., 18 Nov., 23 Nov., 30 Nov.

CATEGORY (c)

Drugs and Therapeutic Substances:

The two interdepartmental Committees coming within this category were established under the Therapeutic Substances Regulations on February 1, 1956, but have not yet met.

Interdepartmental Committees: Welfare Policy (Question No. 1460)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice:

On what dates have there been meetings of the interdepartmental committee established to consider welfare policy.

Mr Wentworth:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

It would not be appropriate to give any details about meetings of representatives of the Departments concerned with welfare policy except to say that liaison and consultation is constantly taking place.

Armed Forces: Personnel Statistics (Question No. 1484)

Mr Keating:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. What was the total number of personnel serving in the armed forces during the financial years 1954-55, 1959-60, 1964-65 and 1969-70.
  2. How many civilians were employed in the Defence, Service and other Departments to support the armed forces during those years.
  3. Is he able to supply an estimate of the number of civilians employed in private industry in Australia who worked directly or indirectly on military supplies during those years.
  4. What was the aggregate number of persons referred to in (1), (2) and (3) expressed as a percentage of the total number of workers employed in Australia during those years.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. No record is available of the number of civilians employed in private industry who worked directly or indirectly on military supplies. Moreover, it is not possible to provide a reasonable estimate in view of vast range of military supplies, which are often produced concurrently with civilian needs. However, during the financial year 1969-70, purchases to the value of $188. 8m were made from Australian suppliers for goods and services required by the Defence Group Departments. These purchases were spread over about 10,000 contractors ranging from very small businesses to the largest companies.
  2. The aggregate numbers of persons referred to in (1) and (2) expressed as a percentage of the total number of workers employed in Australia during those years is:

Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport (Question No. 1506)

Mr Morrison:
ST GEORGE, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

  1. How many movements of (a) jet aircraft, (b) prop-jet aircraft and (c) piston-engine aircraft have taken place between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. at Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport during the period 12th June to 7th August 1970.
  2. How many movements within each of these categories have taken place on each of the runways between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. during the same period.
Mr Swartz:
LP

– The Minister for Civil Aviation has provided the following answer to the honourable member’s question:

  1. Records indicate that the following operations took place at Sydney airport between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m. from 12th June to 7th August (57 days):

    1. 80 jet aircraft
    2. 236 turbo prop aircraft
    3. 338 piston-engine aircraft. .

  2. Runway utilisation and therefore airspace sectors containing flight paths were as follows:

During the period in question, only 10 special flights byjet aircraft were approved between11 p.m. and 6 a.m. (the jet curfew period). Other flights by jet aircraft were subjected to minor delays on account of adverse weather and other unavoidable causes. Flights by prop jet and pistonengine aircraft were not subject to the night curfew and, in the main, were normal scheduled flights including freighters.

Papua and New Guinea: Airline Employees (Question No. 1739)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

  1. How many (a) indigenes and (b) expatriates are (i) employed (ii) housed by each airline in the Territory of Papua and New Guinea.
  2. What are the (a) highest, (b) lowest and (c) average salaries and allowances paid by each airline to its (i) indigenous and (ii) expatriate employees.
Mr Swartz:
LP

– The Minister for Civil Aviation has provided the following answer to the honourable member’s question: (1). The numbers of indigenes and expatriates employed by the airlines in Papua and New

Guinea and also the number of these employees housed by the airlines are as follows:

Advice received from Trans-Australia Airlines indicates that there are a number of employees, both indigenes and expatriates who prefer to arrange their own accommodation. Many of the married indigenes continue to live in their respective villages with their “families. Accommodation with families or friends is also arranged by some of the single indigenes. In addition, a number of the employees classified as expatriates are locally engaged Europeans who have established their own homes in Papua and New Guinea.

  1. The highest, lowest and average salaries paid by Trans-Australia Airlines as at 7th December 1970 are:

Expatriates also receive the following allowances as at 7th December 1970.

Ansett and Patair advise that all . salaries of their employees are in accordance with the relevant awards and, where appropriate, in accordance with the approval of the Department of Labour. In accordance with normal company policy, these airlines regard the salaries paid to individual staff as confidential information in normal circumstances. However, the airlines point out that the various awards apply equally to all airlines in the Territory and the Trans- Australia Airlines rales quotedabove would broadly reflect the Ansett and Patair position.

Armed Forces: Recruitment Programme (Question No. 1747)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. Does Australia conduct a recruitment programme seeking personnel for the Australian Armed Forces fromthe military services of overseas countries.
  2. If so, in what countries is this campaign conducted, in each case when was it commenced and how many (a) officers, (b). non-commissioned officers and (c) other ranks were recruited from each country in each year of the campaign.
  3. What sum has been expended on this campaign in each year during which it has been conducted.
  4. How many of those men recruited from overseas armed services are still serving with the Australian Services.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

NAVY

Navy conducts a recruitment programme in the United Kingdom, for personnel who have completed their engagements with the RN. The current programme commenced in 1964.

and (3)-

ARMY

  1. A recruiting programme is conducted in the United Kingdom and within the Far East Land Forces Command in Malaysia/Singapore for exBritish Army officers and other ranks. The campaign commenced for officers in October 1967. for other ranks in January 1970 in the United Kingdom and in July 1970 in FARELF.
  2. and (3)-

Notes -

  1. A dissection of the O.R. figure is not readily available, but the majority would be of NCO rank.

  2. Approval has been given to the enlistment of 41 O.R. from the United Kingdom, of which 11 were enlisted as at December 1970. The remainder were awaiting enlistment.

    1. Statistics are not maintained to show which of these are currently serving.

AIR FORCE

  1. The Air Force conducts a recruitment programme in the United Kingdom. Enlistments are not limited to persons who have had previous military experience. The programme commenced in May 1964.
  2. and (3)-

Armed Services: Rejection of Applicants (Question No. 1793)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. How many people have (a) applied to join and (b) been accepted for entry into each of the Services in each of the last 5 years.
  2. How many applications were rejected (a) on the grounds of education and (b) for medical reasons.
  3. What are the most common causes of medical rejection.
  4. What is the minimum educational standard set in the test for entry into each of the Services.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

The most common causes of medical rejection were: respiratory complaints, Emotional and nervous disorders, skin disease, eyesight and hearing deficiencies, cardiovascular anomalies.

The minimum educational standards set in respect of entry to each of the Services are:

  1. Navy - General Service Sailor: Applicants undergo short tests in basic Mathematics, English and Comprehension at the Recruiting Centre comparable with grade 4 to 5 primary school level.
  2. Army - Other Rank Applicants: Comparable with grade 4 primary school level.
  3. RAAF - No general minimum standard, though particular musterings require a minimum level for entry. Applicants are subjected to an aptitude test and suitability for employment or training in a particular area is assessed.

Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (Question No. 1936)

Mr Hayden:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

  1. What was the number of (a) chemists and (b) doctors approved for each year since 1950 for the purpose of dispensing prescriptions under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
  2. What was the overall percentage increase in (ti) chemists and (b) doctors’ in 1970 as compared with 1950.
  3. What was the percentage increase in (a) the cost of ingredients and containers, (b) the remuneration to suppliers and (c) the total cost in 1970 as compared with 1950.
  4. What was the (a) average remuneration to suppliers in (i) 1950 and (ii) 1970, (b) percentage increase between those years and (c) increase in the consumer price index between the same years.
  5. What proportion of government dispensing was (a) extemporaneous and (b) or prepared lines in 1970 or the most. recent year for which this information is available. .
  6. What was (a) the number of doctors in private practice’ in Australia and (b) the ratio of chemists to those doctors in the latest year for which this information is available.
  7. What was the ratio of chemists to each ten thousand of the population in Australia in the latest year for which this information is available.
  8. Will he provide, for the. same year, where possible similar information as to the ratio of chemists in the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Canada and the Scandinavian countries.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer lo the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The numbers of (a) chemists and (b) doctors approved to dispense pharmaceutical benefits as at 30th June of each year since 1950 are as follows:
  1. The number of chemists in Australia approved to supply pharmaceutical benefits increased by 90.7 per cent between 1950 and 1970. There are no statistics available to my Department from which a simitar comparison can be drawn of movements in the numbers Of ‘ doc- tors. ; (3) The table below compares Ingredient and Container Cost, Approved Suppliers’ Remunera tion and Total Pharmaceutical Benefit Cost for the financial years 1960-61 and 1969-70.

  2. (a) and (b) The average remuneration per approved supplier from dispensing of pharmaceutical benefits in the 1969-70 financial year was $8,459, an increase of 73.6 per cent over the figure of §4,871 recorded in 1960-61. the earliest year for which such figures are available.

    1. The following table shows movements in the consumer price index compared with at> index of average remuneration per approved supplier from dispensing of pharmaceutical benefits between tha base year 1960-61 and 1.969-70.
  1. (a) Extemporaneously prepared benefits comprised 19.85 per cent and (b) prepared lines 89.15 per cent of pharmaceutical benefit prescriptions dispensed in 1969-70 by approved chemists arid doctors and private hospitals.
  2. There are no precise figures available to my Department as to the numbers of doctors in Australia. lt is estimated, however, that there were 12,000, including specialists, actively practising at 30th June 1970. On the basis of the estimate the ratio of doctors in private practice to approved chemists at 30th June 1970 was 2.4 to 1.
  3. There were 4.68 approved chemists to each 10,000 head of population at 30th June 1970.
  4. Information as to the ratio of chemists to doctors in private practice in the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Canada and the Scandinavian countries is not available to my Department.

Health (Question No. 1884)

Dr Everingham:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to state the estimated cost to governments in Australia of all (a) chest hospitals and clinics, including mass X-ray surveys and (b) cancer hospitals, clinics and research units.
  2. If so, what was the estimated cost during each of the last 3 year’s for which figures are available.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) No. However details are available of the cost to Governments for the diagnosis, treatment and : control of Tuberculosis. Under the Tuberculosis Act, 1948, the

Commonwealth reimburses State Governments for capital and maintenance expenditure incurred in excess of expenditure for the years 1947-48.

  1. Details of the cost of cancer hospitals, clinics and research units are not main tained by my Department, however the respective Stale authorities have furnished the following information:

    1. The following figures have been obtained for the years from 1966-67to 1969-70:

Armed Forces: Interchange of Personnel (Question No. 1890)

Mr Whitlam:

asked the Minister for

Defence, upon notice:

  1. (a) From what countries have members of their armed forces been posted on an interchange basis, on temporary attachment for training, on loan, secondment or other duty with Australian forces in each of the last 5 years.

    1. How many have come from each country in each year.
    2. How many were (i) officers and (ii) other ranks.

  2. (a) In what countries have members of the Australian armed forces been posted on an interchange basis, on temporary attachment for training, on loan, secondment or other duty to their armed forces in each of the last 5 years.

    1. How many have gone to each country in each year.
    2. How many were (i) officers and (ii) other ranks.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. (a) (b) and (c)-
  1. (a) (b) and (c)-

Cigarette Advertising (Question- No. 2052)

Dr Cass:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice

  1. Has his attention been drawn to remarks made recently by the President of the Australian -Council on Smoking and Health concerning the need for legislation to stop cigarette advertising.
  2. Did the Australian National Health and

Medical Research Council recommend 2 years ago that all cigarette advertising should be stopped and that the tar and nicotine content of cigarettes should be shown on. the. packets.

  1. If these recommendations are still under consideration when is it anticipated that a decision will be reached.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. No. In May 1969, the Council recommended that cigarette packets should be labelled to indicate the ‘tar’ and nicotine yield on smoking, and that there was a need for restriction of cigarette advertising.
  3. Subsequent to that recommendation the Council set up an ad hoc subcommittee to consider standard analytical methods for determining the tar and nicotine content of cigarette smoke. The sub-committee’s report was received by Council at its session on 29th-30th October 1970, and has not yet been made public.

In respect of advertising the Government has recently requested that discussions should lake place to revise the voluntary code of cigarette advertising, introduced in January 1966. both as to its style and content.

Canberra Airport: Aircraft Noise (Question No. 2064)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

  1. In view of the increasing use of Canberra Airport by jet aircraft and the consequential increase in aircraft noise, is it feasible for air traffic control officers to direct jet aircraft to make a righthand base approach to runway 35 whenever practicable, instead of a lefthand base approach.
  2. If such an approach is feasible, will the Minister give an appropriate instruction to the air traffic control officers.
Mr Swartz:
LP

– The Minister for Civil Aviation has provided the following answer to the honourable members question:

  1. From a traffic handling viewpoint alone it is desirable and is the normal practice that aircraft from northern’ ports make a righthand base approach when using runway 35. Similarly, military aircraft on training make righthand circuits as the normal practice when this runway .is in use. Aircraft approaching ‘ from the south-west usually make a left base approach but in so doing intercept the runway centre line extension some distance from the airport, after having tracked south of the city. There are occasions, such as when helicopter training is in progress where variations to the foregoing are required in the interest of safe and efficient control of the traffic. Such variations are infrequent.
  2. Arrangements are being made for the noise abatement procedures for Canberra to be amended to specifically refer to the preferred righthand circuit for training operations in the’ runway 35 direction and a right base for arrivals from northern ports whenever practicable.

Nursing Home Accommodation (Question No. 2075)

Mr Reynolds:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

How many homes have been built in each State in each year as a result of the Commonwealth’s offer of a grant of $25 million over 5 years to build nursing home accommodation for the frail aged.

Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

I assume that the honourable member refers to the Commonwealth offer of financial assistance to the Stales under the Slates Grants (Nursing Homes) Act 1969 whereby matching grants totalling $5 million are available to the States over the five-year period to 30 June 1974 in respect of approved expenditure for the provision of nursing home accommodation for aged persons of limited means.

Expenditure for the erection of two nursing homes in Western Australia and three in Queensland has so far been approved for Commonwealth financial assistance under the Act.

Tasmania has submitted for approval a project for the erection of a nursing home complex at Hobart. The project which is due to commence in the first half of 1971 is presently under consider,ation.

Foot and Mouth Disease (Question No. 2084)

Mr Maisey:
MOORE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

  1. Is he able to say whether a serious outbreak of foot and mouth disease has occurred in Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan.
  2. If so, what action has been taken by his Department to prevent migrants or visitors from these countries bringing the disease into Australia.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Foot and Mouth disease is endemic in Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan. Lebanon and Iraq report a widespread incidence of this disease and Jordan a moderate incidence.
  2. Australia’s quarantine measures are based on the knowledge that foot and mouth disease is continually present in these countries and full precautions are always taken to guard against migrants and visitors from these countries bringing foot and mouth disease into Australia.

When air movement of migrants from Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan is permitted a code letter is placed on the visa which indicates that the bearer and his baggage arc to be subjected to a full quarantine inspection upon arrival in Australia. The only exception is in the case of the migrant from Lebanon who is able to satisfy the Australian Immigration authorities on investigation in Beirut that he is a non-rural citizen.

All visitors to Australia are subjected to Customs examination on arrival to determine whether there is any risk of the traveller inadvertently carrying foot and mouth disease on his clothing or in his baggage. Any items of risk in the passenger’s baggage, such as animal products, ara seized and destroyed . by Quarantine Officers acting with Customs Officers at all ports and airports of disembarkation from overseas.

Commonwealth Serum Laboratories (Question No. 2138)

Dr Everingham:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice: (.1) Are certain antibiotic pharmaceutical benefits not produced by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories.

  1. If so, which are they, and what is the reason for not producing them.
  2. What is the current cost of antibiotic benefits manufactured (a) by these laboratories and -(b) by other firms (i) in Australia and (ii) overseas
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. There are a large number of antibiotics available under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme which the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories has neither the patent- rights nor the existing facilities to produce.

However 1 would mention that antibiotics supplied by the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories ‘ which are available as pharmaceutical benefits fall into 2 broad categories:

  1. Those which are formulated from material ‘ of which the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories are prime manufacturers, e.g. Penicillin V, G and Phenethicillin tablets, capsules and oral suspensions, together wilh various injectable Penicillin G preparations.

  2. Those which the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories formulate from raw material purchased from other companies, e.g. Ampicillin, Cloxacillin, and Methicillin.

    1. The cost including patient contribution for general benefit prescriptions of antibiotics identified as being manufactured by the Commonwealth Scrum Laboratories and supplied by chemists, approved doctors and private hospitals as pharmaceutical benefits for the year ended 30 June 1970, was $1,268,000.

Antibiotics similarly supplied and identified as benefits, by all other firms cost $29,065,000 for the same year. In addition, benefit prescriptions for: antibiotics which could not be identified by brand, cost $3,708,000.

Because some Australian based firms market imported and locally manufactured antibiotics under the same brand, it is not possible to determine with an acceptable degree of accuracy the separate cost of these benefits manufactured by firms (i) in Australia and (ii) overseas.

Pharmaceutical Benefits (Question No. 2139)

Dr Everingham:

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

What proportion of the present cost of antibiotic benefits ls attributable to non-generic prescribing. able member’s question is as follows:

S5.1 per cent of the present cost of antibiotics prescribed under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme is attributable to non-generic prescribing.

Antibiotics (Question No. 2140)

Dr Everingham:

am asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

  1. Has his attention been drawn lo claims of manufacturers that generic’ ‘ prescribing of antibiotics produces inferior results.
  2. . If so, is he able to say what pharmacopoeial, pharmacological or other reputable indicators there are to justify these claims.
  3. Will he consider setting statutory criteria comparable, to those of’ the-‘ British Pharmacopoeia to define the relative effectiveness of various preparations and the factors .involved in producing such effectiveness
  4. Where those factors are industrial secrets, will he require their formulation wilh the normal patent protection on the grounds that medical treatment is not a proper sphere for giving commercial advantage priority over the dissemination of scientific findings.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Yes.
  2. The Australian Ding Evaluation Committee has informed me thai’ the ‘tests currently required by pharmacopoeias may not ensure thai equivalent serum drug levels are attained following the administration of preparations of the same formulation produced by different manufacturers, although they may all. have met the requirements of the relevant pharmacopoeia! monograph. The Committee considered that other tests may well be required and such information -should be provided in future applications when .required by the Department.
  3. At present the legal standards for drugs in Australia under the Therapeutic Goods Act (1966) are those of the British Pharmacopoeia and the British Pharmaceutical Codex. 1 would point out that the British Pharmacopoeia does not provide criteria lo define relative effectiveness of various preparations. The criteria which the standards of the British Pharmacopoeia established relate to the identification, purity. content, and quality of individual drugs. Standards which have been promulgated under the Therapeutic Goods Act are similar in content and effect to those of the British Pharmacopoeia, but include bio-availability where appropriate.

  4. Formulations are at present required by my Department for all medicinal preparations which are -

    1. listed as pharmaceutical benefits;
    2. imported into Australia;
    3. supplied to the Commonwealth or an Authority of the Commonwealth.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honour-

Antibiotic Prescribing (Question No. 2141)

Dr Everingham:

asked the” Minister for Health, upon notice.’’

  1. What change occurred in the cost to the Government of antibiotic prescribing between the last month when the listed maximum quantity prescribable as a pharmaceutical benefit was 16 tablets or capsules with no repeats for most broadspectrum antibiotics and the third month thereafter.
  2. What was the change in this cost for the corresponding periods 12 months earlier.
  3. Do other prescribing figures indicate a seasonal factor in the above comparison; if so, what are the estimated changes in cost corrected for such seasonal factors and price changes.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: fi) Commonwealth Pharmaceutical Benefit expenditure during the months of November 1969 and February 1970 on antibiotic preparations affected by altered maximum quantities was as follows:

November 1969 .. ..” 813,119*

February 1970 .. .. 904,558*

Expenditure on the same range of benefits during the corresponding periods 12 months earlier was:

November 1968 .. .. 671.170*

February 1969 .. .. 713,471*

It is not possible to assess seasonal influences with an acceptable degree of accuracy because statistics based on the month of dispensing have only been available for the past two years. Formerly statistics were collated on the basis of the month in which benefit prescriptions were processed for payment which had a levelling effect on prescription volume rather than reflecting true seasonal fluctuations. Furthermore the position has been complicated by changes to the list of benefits, particularly within the antibiotic group.

States Grants (Nursing Homes) Act (Question No. 2153)

Mr WHITLAM:
WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

asked the Minister for Health, upon notice:

  1. Which States have made claims for financial assistance under the States Grants (Nursing Homes) Act 1969.
  2. When did each State claim assistance
  3. How much assistance has each State received.
Dr Forbes:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows: (1), (2) and (3) No States have yet submitted formal claims for payment of Commonwealth financial assistance under the States Grants (Nursing Homes) Act 1969.

However, it is expected that claims will be received during the current financial year in respect of nursing homes to be erected at Redcliffe, Rockhampton and Townsville in Queensland and at Albany and Bunbury in Western Australia, all of which have been approved for Commonwealth financial assistance under the Act.

The Queensland projects are estimated to cost $650,000 and this amount, if fully expended, would attract Commonwealth assistance of $325,000. In Western Australia the estimated costs is $773,500. Expenditure of this amount would attract that State’s maximum entitlement of $381,000 under the Act.

An application has been received for approval of erection of additional nursing home beds at Hobart and is at present being examined.

Armed Forces: Rejection of Applicants (Question No. 2158)

Mr Daly:

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice:

  1. How many persons have volunteered for service in the (a) Navy, (b) Army and (c) Air Force since the introduction of national service training.
  2. How many persons have been rejected in each case and what were the reasons for rejection.
  3. What was the percentage of rejections to enlistments in each service.
Mr Malcolm Fraser:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. The number of applications to join the Services received in the period from first National Service intake in July 1965 to November 1970 a as follows:

Navy . . 46,483

Army . . 70,544

Air . .49,964

  1. and (3) The numbers not enlisted by the Services in this period, the reasons for this, and the ratio of these to enlistments are as follows:
  1. These are largely applications withdrawn or not proceeded with. Also included are applicants rejected on other grounds, e.g. over or under age, below required training potential or failure to pass trade test, and those who applied for junior and specialist categories for which there are limited vacancies, and would not accept entry in alternative categories, (b) Not all applications are finalised in the same year in which they are received.

Bunbury Airfield (Question No. 2186)

Mr Kirwan:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Civil Aviation, upon notice:

  1. Has the Minister visited the electoral division of Forrest since November 1969: If so, when, and what towns did he visit.
  2. If Bunbury was one of the towns visited, did the Minister meet representatives of the Bunbury Town Council.
  3. Did the Minister visit the Bunbury airfield and have discussions on the future of the air services for that town; If so, with what result.
  4. Does the Minister have any record of my correspondence with him in relation to the Bunbury airfield. ‘ (5) Is it usual for a Minister to inform a Member when he intends to visit a Member’s Electorate: If so, why was I not informed on this occasion.
Mr Swartz:
LP

– The Minister for Civil Aviation, has provided the following answer to the honourable member’s question:

  1. Yes. in October, 1970. I visited Albany, Esperance, Kalgoorlie and Bunbury.
  2. Yes.
  3. Yes. The main point made by the representatives of the local Council was that they considered adequate provision had been made for aviation in the area and that if the aviation industry wanted something additional then perhaps it should provide those additional facilities from its own resources. It was very much doubted whether there is a real need for a commuter type service in competition with the good road to Perth. Rather it was suggested that irregular charter flights on an ‘as required’ basis should suffice.
  4. Yes.
  5. Not necessarily. I was endeavouring to inform myself on the widest possible range of aviation matters within the very limited time available and, as you are probably aware, the visit to Bunbury was the last call towards the end of a quite extensive tour of Queensland, Northern Territory and Western Australia.. The actual timing of the visit to Bunbury was only confirmed with the Town Clerk the day immediately preceding the visit. In these circumstances, I wished to avoid causing anybody any inconvenience by having them make last minute adjustments to their own appointments or other general commitments.

Australian Broadcasting Commission: Televised Sporting Events (Question No. 2198) “ Mr Luchetti asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice:

  1. What amount was paid’ by the Australian Broadcasting Commission to televise sporting events during 1969-70.
  2. What percentage of the total cost of programmes did this amount represent.
  3. What was the cost of the rights to televise each type of sport.
Sir Alan Hulme:
LP

– The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

  1. Payments to sporting bodies for the rights to televise sporting events amounted to $137,904. To this has to be added $75,720 in direct expenses incurred in the production and presentation of sporting events on television, so that the direct expenses for these programmes totalled $213,624.
  2. Direct programme expenses for both radio and television amounted to $13,35S,298 as shown in Appendix 1 to the Commission’s Report to Parliament. The amount paid to televise sporting events therefore represents 1.6 per cent of total programme expenses in both media.
  3. As the contractual arrangements with the various sporting organisations are. confidential, the A.B.C. is not free to disclose the individual amounts paid.

Australian Capital Territory: Education (Question No. 2217)

Mr Enderby:

asked the Minister for Education and Science, upon notice:

  1. How many former teachers of the Australian Capital Territory are now employed by bis Department.

  2. What was (a) the date of appointment of each former teacher, ‘

    1. the teacher grade of the appointee,
    2. – the length of teaching experience at the time of appointment, and
    3. the actual salary at which the appointment was made.
Mr N H Bowen:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP

en - The answer to the honourable member’s question is as follows:

(»)” (b) (c) (d)

These figures cover only those Australian Capital’ Territory teachers appointed directly to the Department of Education and Science. They do not include those who may be employed by my Department after initial appointment to another Department.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 17 February 1971, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1971/19710217_reps_27_hor71/>.

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