House of Representatives
30 September 1948

18^th Parliament · 2^nd Session

QUESTION
- ELECTORAL
ME. G. J. BOWDEN, M.P
QUESTION
- POULTRY
QUESTION
- MILITIA
CIVIL AVIATION
QUESTION
- APPRENTICES
QUESTION
- DOLLAR DEFICITS
SOUTH AUSTRALIA
QUESTION
- PETROL RATIONING
QUESTION
- SOCIAL SERVICES
QUESTION
- FEDERATED IRONWORKERS ASSOCIATION
QUESTION
- OVERSEAS INVESTMENTS IN AUSTRALIA
QUESTION
- ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE
QUESTION
- SNOWY RIVER SCHEME
QUESTION
- NORTHERN TERRITORY
QUESTION
- PETROL
QUESTION
- COMMUNISM
QUESTION
- TUBERCULOSIS
ELECTORAL REDISTRIBUTION
QUESTION
- BROADCASTING
QUESTION
- MALAYA
ESTIMATES 1948-49
- Prime Minister’s Department
- Research
INTERNATIONAL, TRADE, ORGANIZATION BILL 1948
NATIONALITY AND CITIZENSHIP BILL 1948
- Second Reading
IMMIGRATION (GUARDIANSHIP OF CHILDREN) BILL 1948
TUBERCULOSIS BILL 1948
- Second Reading
QUESTION
- ESTIMATES 1948-49
ADJOURNMENT
- Parliamentary Proceedings Broadcasting Committee
PAPERS
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
- Virus Diseases: Use of Chloromycetin
- Department of Information
- Royal Australian Navy: Personnel
- Hearing Aids

Mr. Deputy SPEAKER (Mr. J. J. Clark) look the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1018

QUESTION

ELECTORAL

Dame ENID LYONS:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

– As the Minister for the Interior is, no doubt, aware, the position of divisional returning officers in Tasmania is different from chat of their colleagues’ in the other States because Federal and State boundaries in Tasmania coincide and an agreement has been reached. However, « considerable injustice is done to one section of the electoral officers. As divisional returning officers in Tasmania are not permanent officers of the Electoral Office, and receive only a £50 allowance co supervise returns, tile real work falls upon the permanent clerks, whose salary range is not in any way commensurate with that of divisional returning officers in the other States. In view of the proposed redistribution of electoral boundaries, will the Minister inquire into the possibility of raising Tasmanian divisional .returning officers to the status of such officer? in the other States, with a consequent increase of the status and salary of the permanent clerks who at present are mainly responsible for the work performed?

Mr JOHNSON:
Minister for the Interior · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– This matter i* already under consideration followingrepresentations made v to me previously. Only this morning I discussed the matter again with the Chief Electoral Officer. Mr. Turner, and he expects to have a report available for me on th,is very question in the course of a few days.

page 1018

ME. G. J. BOWDEN, M.P

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

– In view of the statement made yesterday by the honorable member for Gippsland, and reported in to-day’s Sydney Morning Herald, thai the Broadcasting Committee waB the biggest racket he had ever been associated with, can the Minister for Information ascertain from any source the nature of other rackets in which the honorable member has been engaged.

Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

– I have no knowledge of any other rackets in which the- honorable member for Gippsland may have been engaged, either before he entered the Parliament or since. 1 think he used an unfortunate turn of phrase. If he had used the positive degree, he would have been safe; if hp had used the comparative, he would noi have been in the position in which he finds himself now through indulging in superlatives. Perhaps when the Estimates for the Postmaster-General’^ Department are under discussion he will enlighten the honorable member for Griffith and others who believe that there may have been something in what b> said.

page 1018

QUESTION

POULTRY

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

– Will the Treasurer give sympathetic consideration to the request of the Queensland poultryindustry for an amendment of theIncome Tax Assessment Act to bring poultry-farmers within the provisions of section 54 (2) (6) or will he take another action that may be necessary to permit poultry-farmers to claim as _ a taxdeduction depreciation on farm buildingand fencing - concessions which they artdenied at present? -

Mr CHIFLEY:
Prime Minister · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The honorable member mentioned this matter on a previous occasion either in the House or to me personally. It has had some examination, though it has notbeen fully studied and I shall arrange to have further inquiries made into it.

page 1019

QUESTION

MILITIA

Mr FULLER:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Minister for the Army inform me whether the annual leave of a member of the Public Service is affected by his absence from duty while attending a fourteen days annual camp for training in the Citizen Military Force?

Mr CHAMBERS:
Minister for the Army · ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– The present conditions respecting the attendance of Commonwealth public servants at such camps provide for leave of fourteen days on full pay, without affecting their annual leave entitlement.

page 1019

CIVIL AVIATION

Air Accident in New Guinea.

Mr.RYAN. - Is the Minister for Civil Aviation yet in a position to make public the findings of the court of inquiry which investigated the air crash at Lae? If not can he give the House any information about the causes of the accident?

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Minister for Air · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP

– As I have stated on a previous occasion this matter is in the hands of the Crown Law Department which is considering what action, if any, should be taken, and until I have the relevant file returned to me from that department, with the department’s advice noted thereon, I shall be unable to give any further information.

page 1019

QUESTION

APPRENTICES

Mr O’CONNOR:
WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Minister for Labour and National Service state the reason for the payment of subsidies to apprentices in certain trades during and after the recent war? Was the policy under which the payments were, or are made, intended to be a permanent or only a temporary one? Is the Government now withdrawing those subsidies and, if so, is it, by doing so, violating any agreement entered into with unions and employers?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The reason for the introduction of the policy of subsidizing the wages paid to apprentices was that during the war years Australia suffered from a shortage of labour, as honorable members know, and “ green or diluted labour was introduced into many trades. Amongst other methods adopted in an endeavour to achieve greater production was the payment of full rates to apprentices in the final year of their apprenticeship. That applied usually in the fifth year, but in a few cases the sixth year of apprenticeship. That policy was very successful but it was intended as a temporary war-time measure only. The policy was agreed upon by conferences in which representatives of employers, employees and the Australian Government took part. The parties agreed on the payment of subsidies during the final year of apprenticeship bringing the apprentices’ wages to the full tradesman’s rates, the cost of the subsidies to be shared equally between the employers and the Australian Government. As a natural result of the effluxion of time most of the apprentices who worked under the scheme have now completed their apprenticeship and are no longer entitled to the subsidy. At least 99 per cent. of apprentices are how working apart from the subsidy scheme. There has been no violation of any agreement whatever.

page 1019

QUESTION

DOLLAR DEFICITS

Tractors - Newsprint - Machinery - bottle-labelling ma chines.

Mr ABBOTT:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I preface a question to the Prime Minister by referring to accounts which have appeared in the press of the third broadcast “Report to the Nation “, which the right honorable gentleman made over the Macquarie radio network on the 26th September, in which he was reported to have said -

Australia had also maintained restrictions on dollar imports since the war started and when the position became critical last year, it drastically tightened those restrictions.

A minimum amount of dollars must be acquired for essential materials and equipment to keep industries going and maintain imports. Tractors, fertilizers, and petrol were examples of essential imports.

As the right honorable gentleman apparently regards tractors as essential imports, I ask him - (1) Why the ComptrollerGeneral of Customs, Mr. J. J. Kennedy, informed the John Deere Company by letter, dated the 2nd February, 1948, that its allocation of tractors for use in. this country during the financial year 1948-49 had been reduced from 1,469 to 190, on the ground of scarcity of dollars? (2) Why he considers imports of cement-making plant to be more essential than tractors? I point out that when imports of tractors were reduced because of the alleged scarcity of dollars, the right honorable gentleman personally approved of the allocation of 1,189,110 dollars to Metropolitan Portland Cement Limited ?

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

– Order ! The honorable member is referring to matters which are outside the scope of * question.

Mr ABBOTT:

– May I ask the third portion of the question I have prepared, which has nothing to do with the matter ro which I have just referred?

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

– The honorable member may continue, provided the .remainder of his question does act relate to the Prime Minister’s speech.

Mr ABBOTT:

– My third question is : (Jan the Prime Minister say why thirteen licences for the importation from the United States of America, after the 1st July, 1948, of bottlelabelling machines to the value of 55,220 dollars were issued, while imports of tractors were curtailed?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– The honorable member will appreciate that the allocation of dollars to obtain imports is often difficult to -decide. Applications are received for permission to import tractors not only for agricultural use, hut also for industrial purposes. Before any restrictions were imposed on imports from the dollar ,area a thorough survey was ma’de by an inter-departmental committee of the reasonable requirements of all sections of industry, and subsequently the committee’s investigations and recommendations were reviewed by a Cabinet sub-committee, which continues to review the position from time to time. The importation of tractors and tractor parts has been men tioned several times by the Leader of tn> Australian Country party (Mr. .Fadden),, to whom I have pointed out that approval has been given for the ‘imports tion of sufficient tractor parts to meet requirements. I understand that production of tractors and other agricultural and industrial machinery by the Inter national Harvester Company of Australia Proprietary Limited and another manufacturing concern ‘will commence this ;year, and it should be possible, by supplementing the supply with a limited number of imported machines, to meet demands. Th* allocation of dollars for importations of machinery requires that consideration be given to the plant requirements of * large number of industrial undertakings As an example, the continued development of the newsprint industry in Tasmania requires that a certain amount of machinery shall be imported, -and important industrial undertakings such a* those of the Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limited and Australian Iron and Steel Limited depend, to a consider able degree, on imported machinery. Thihonorable member referred to the importation of bottle-labelling machines I ‘believe that a number of requests have been received from Australian Consolidated Industries Proprietary Limited and other firms for the importation of plant, and the honor able member will realize that the task of discriminating between the various appli cations is not very pleasant-

Mr Abbott:

– Give me a chance to d>i the job!

Mr CHIFLEY:

– I can assure the honorable member that he would find the task equally trying. All applications receive a thorough examination, and it i? inevitable that differences of opinion will arise about the priority which should he given to various industries seeking to import machinery. After all, the determinations .made are necessarily nothing more than the application of personal judgment to conflicting claims. A? an example of the difficulty which confronts the Government, I mention the applications made by newspapers from time to time for authority to import newsprint. It might be said that the curtailment of newsprint does not warrant theexpenditureof dollars ata timeof scarcity,and I do not suppose that the country would “gobung” ifthe newspapers hadto curtail further their circulation. However, the printing of newspapers is an industry, andthe Government tries to meet thereasonable demandsof newspaperproprietors. However,the newspaper industry is onlyone of manywhich desire to import goods from the dollar area, andthe selection of those industries which are most in need if imports involves the exercise of sound judgment. The honorable memberreferred to bottle-labelling machines. I think it is desirable that bottles should be correctly labelled. I shall have a statement prepared . onthe subject and shall furnish a copy to the honorable member assoon as possible.

page 1021

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

ShortageofLabour.

Mr.RUSSELL.- Does the Minister forLabourand National Service know that there isa shortage of labour through- out South Australia,especially in the home-building and ship-building indus- triesatWhyalla andsurrounding districts?Can anythingbe doneto relieve the positionnowor in thenear future?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Minister for Labour and National Service · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

-It is well known that there is a shortage of labour in South Australia. Strange as it may seem, on thecessation ofhostilities it seemed likely that difficultieswould be experienced in providing peace-time employment for persons employed on war work in that State. When the war endedbetween 7,000 and8,000 employees inwar industries had to be permanently fitted into peace-time employment. As an indication ofthe successful absorption of those employees, I may mention that only twelve persons inSouth Australia are receiving the unemployment benefit. In collaborationwith the Ministerfor Immigration and his department, I am doing everything possible toprovide additional manpower in South Australia. A great problem confronts the Ministerfor Immigration inimplementing his migration policy because of the shortage of housing accommodation. No migrants may be brought to this country unless a guarantee is furnishedthat accommodation has been provided for them. While it is true that more migrants have been brought to South Australiathan to any other State, that does not mean that no more will be provided for that State. Already plans are inpreparation for the building ofa hostelat Gawler, and a conference is at present being held between representatives of the Australian Government, the South Australian Government andthe Broken Hill Proprietary Company Limitedto consider the erection of large hostels for the workers at IronKnob and Whyalla. The Minister for Immigration is endeavour ingtocarry out his migration programme in such away as to ensure that the arrival of the newcomers shall not worsen the accommodation problem already existing in Australia. The honor able member mayrest assured that we are doing everything possible to obtain additional labourfor South Australia.

page 1021

OVERSEAS INVESTMENTS IN AUSTRALIA

Mr FRASER:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister for Post-war Reconstruction seen the statement attributed to Mr. Kent-Hughes. amember of the Victorian Government, that a large United Kingdom company is anxious to commence operations in eastern Victoria, but requires the development of port facilities at Eden, Twofold Bay, New South Wales, for the successful conduct of its operations? Will the Minister communicate with the Victorian and New South Wales Governments to ascertain whether Commonwealth assistance is required to ensure the establishment of that industry and the development of that port?

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Defence · CORIO, VICTORIA · ALP

– I have not seen the statement to which the honorable member has referred and I am not aware that any representations have been made by any English company in that regard. I should assume that if such a company desired to establish itself in Australia, its executives would make some contact with the Industrial Development Division of the Department of Post-war Reconstruction. I am not aware that that has been done, but I shall endeavour to ascertain from the Victorian Minister what he has in mind. The honorable member can rest assured that if any action is required to assist in the establishment of an industry in the eastern part of Victoria, the Commonwealth will do everything in its power to help the enterprise.

page 1023

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Recruitment

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

– Last week I asked the Minister for Air whether he was satisfied with the rate of recruitment for the Royal Australian Air Force, whether squadrons are up to strength, and how many squadrons, other than those stationed in Japan, would be available for service in an emergency. In reply, the Minister stated that recruiting for the Royal Aus- tralian Air Force is on a satisfactory basis. However, it is stated in this morning’s press, that only six men - three pilots and three ground staff - have been enlisted in Sydney’s Citizen Air Force Squadron since its formation five months ago. Is the Minister still of the same opinion that recruiting for the Royal Australian Air Force is proceed- ing satisfactorily, and can he say if the statement in the newspaper article is correct? If it is, in view of the need for strengthening our armed forces because of the present international situation, will the Government consider adopting other methods to bring the units up to full strength?

Mr DRAKEFORD:
ALP

– I answered a similar question by the honorable member for Balaclava last week by saying that recruiting generally is satisfactory. So far as Sydney’s Citizen Air Force Squadron is concerned, I do not know whether the figures quoted by the’ honorable member are correct, but I do not accept them as accurate. If the honorable gentleman has quoted from a newspaper article I should say that that sourceis extremely unreliable because many in correct reports have appeared in the newspapers from time to time, including some recent statements. I propose to deal with the matter of recruiting when the Estimates are before the House and shall make a statement then. I qualifymy previous reply that recruiting is progressing satisfactorily by saying that owing to attractive conditions obtaining in civil life for men following technical occupations, we are not satisfied with the number of technicians enlisting, but in other directions it has been reported to me that recruiting is satisfactory. I repeat that I do not accept figures from any newspapers in regard to these matters in the light of experiences I have had, which have been anything but satisfactory.

page 1023

QUESTION

SNOWY RIVER SCHEME

Mr LANGTRY:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Minister for Works and Housing inform the House what progress has been made with the preparation of the report concerning the diversion of the Snowy River? The people of New South Wales are anxious to learn what is proposed to be done. I have received many letters in the last week in connexion with this matter and I wish to know when the report islikely to be made available.

Mr LEMMON:
Minister for Works and Housing · FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– It is anticipated that the report being prepared on behalf of the Commonwealth and the States of New South Wales and Victoria will be in the hands of the Government early an November. I am hopeful that the nature of the report will be such as. to prove satisfactory to both States, and. to r ,he’ Commonwealth.

page 1024

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY

Economic Survey - Development

Mr BLAIN:
NORTHERN TERRITORY

– By way of preface to my question. I inform the House that yet another economic survey is being made of the Northern Territory, this time by the Division of Agricultural Economics. I met a representative of What division between Wave Hill and the Western Australian border a few weeks ago, when I was travelling through my vast electorate.. Will the Minister for Commerce, and Agriculture- say whether or not the purpose of that survey is to check up on opinions expressed by the honorable member for the Northern Territory? Will he also expedite the report of that officer’ and table it in the Souse prior to the extension of: the Rovril and Vestey leases to 1980?

Mr POLLARD:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · BALLAARAT, VICTORIA · ALP

– The presence of an officer of the Division of Agricultural Economics in the Northern Territory has no relation whatever to any opinions which have been expressed from time to time by the honorable member. The purpose <>f that officer’s- visit is to make investigations with respect to projects which necessarily will be developed in the Northern Territory. When his report has been received, the Government will consider whether it should be published.

Mr BLAIN:

– I address a question to the Prime Minister, not only in his capacity as head of the Government, but also as Treasurer^ in which capacity he is responsible for the allocation of money for the development of the- Northern Territory. Recently, in the guise of being philanthropic- to ex-servicemen, the Vestey interests surrendered an area of 9,000 square miles, 90 per cent, of which’ was inferior land. The Minister for Transport is not yet able to announce what developmental or strategic railways are to be constructed in the Northern. Territory, and the Minister for Commerce and, Agriculture, has not yet received a report from his economic advisers who are: now. investigating conditions in the Territory. Notwithstanding, these facts, the Minister for the Interior has stated that he is about to extend for 30- years certain leases of land in the- Northern Territory which are held by Vestey and Bovril organizations: Will the Prime Minister prevent the Minister for the Interior from extending these leases and will he refuse to allocate money for the developmental work until the Minister for Transport has made a statement with regard to the construction of railways in the Territory and the Minister for Commerce and Agriculture has received the advice of the economic advisers to whom I have referred, and it is known whether the development of the Territory is to be done by family settlers or large interests?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– In conjunction with the Ministers concerned, I have devoted a good deal of personal attention to plane for the development of the Northern Territory and of similar areas in Western Australia. After studying all the report* that were available, including those that were made by the British experts who visited this country, it seemed to me that the only way in which to develop the Northern Territory on a large scale was to expand the beef producing industry there. Questions arose regarding the land in the Territory that is held under lease by the Vestey and Bovril interests. I do not want to comment upon the business methods of the Vestey organization, but I do not consider that its land ha? been used to its fullest extent. The Minister for Works and Housing, who is familiar with this kind of country, and also the Minister for the Interior and myself have given a great deal of thought to what should be done in respect of the land held by these companies, the leases on which: do not expire- until 1965, and proposals, were made for them to surrender a considerable- portion of the land and for the period of the leases in- respect of the remainder to be extended, subject to- the imposition of stringent conditions regarding its development. The arrangements that have- been made with Lord Luke in regard. to< the areas; which are held under lease by the Bovril organization! are> very satisfactory. They provide for a great deal of developmental work to be done, including the construction of fences and homesteads, and the provision of water. Frankly, I was not satisfied with the first proposition that was put forward by Lord Vestey. The Minister for the Interior has re-opened the negotiations and is insisting upon developmental work being done by Vesteys. The honorable member for the Northern Territory knows that the raising of stock and the production of beef in the Territory has been a haphazard business. Without the construction of fences, the provision of water and other facilities the land that is available in the Territory will not be used to the best advantage. It may be possible at a later stage greatly to increase the production of beef in the Northern Territory, to that large supplies may be exported to the United Kingdom. I discussed that matter with highly placed Ministers of rh A United Kingdom Government. Mr. Strachey, the British Minister for Food, recently made a statement in London in which he indicated that the proposals that had been made were receiving the earnest consideration of the United Kingdom Government. I shall obtain a copy of the honorable member’s question and ascertain whether there is anything I can add to what I have already told him. However, .he may rest assured that the Government is just as anxious as he is for a sound developmental scheme to be put into effect in the Northern Territory. [ ‘believe that the major project awaiting development in the Northern Territory is beef production. This view is supported by Sir Henry Turner, who came to Australia with the British Food Mission.

page 1025

QUESTION

PETROL

Mr TURNBULL:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

– I wish .to ask the Prime Minister .a question which has been prompted by the following report published in the Melbourne press.: -

Canberra, ‘Wednesday. - The Federal Go vernment will limit ‘the monthly consumption of aviation spirit ito the present figure of 2,000,000 gallons. The Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley) said this to-day.

The Prime Minister is also reported .to have stated-

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

– Order ! The -honorable member is not entitled to read from a newspaper when asking a question.

Mr TURNBULL:

– It is reported in the Melbourne press that the Prime Minister has said that consumption of aviation spirit will be limited to the present figure of 2,000,000 gallons. Does that mean that there will not be any reduction of the supplies of aviation spirit? As aviation plays only a minor part in production and as petrol supplies to farmers and other producers are being reduced, is that decision in accordance with the Government’s plan for increased production ?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– The rate of consumption of aviation spirit has been under review for some time by the Minister for Civil Aviation, the Minister for Shipping and Fuel and myself as well as by departmental officers. It is quite evident that the rapid increase of the demand for aviation spirit for purposes other than aviation cannot be allowed to continue. The matter also involves the ever-present problem of dollars. The primary need 5s to maintain -existing aviation services and, perhaps, allow for the establishment of additional services in special circumstances. With that object, after an examination -of all aspects of the matter, the Government decided ‘upon the arrangement, the details of which were announced last evening. That announcement sets out the special conditions under which aviation spirit will be made available in the future. If that statement does not completely explain the position to the honorable member I shall arrange to supply any further information he may desire.

page 1025

QUESTION

COMMUNISM

Mr HAMILTON:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister for Immigration w’hether it is a fact that Claude Jones .and Rupert Lockwood will shortly attend Soviet schools overseas for instruction as fifth columnists in Australia? If so, is there any provision in the immigration law, .or in any other law, that would prevent their re-entry to Australia as undesirable ‘persons? If not, will the Minister take steps to have the relevant legislation amended to prevent the re-entry of such “persons into this country, as such action is necessary for the purpose of safeguarding the internal security of this nation, particularly in view of the report of the Commonwealth Investigation Service released to the press last evening.

Mr CALWELL:
ALP

– I do not know the nationality of the gentlemen named by the honorable member. If they are Australianism persons, domiciled residents of Australia who were born in some other part of the British Commonwealth, or naturalized British subjects, I have no power under the Immigration Act to refuse them re-entry into Australia. If they fall within the first two categories E have mentioned, neither existing legislation nor any projected legislation could give me power to prevent them from coming back to the country to which they belong.

Mr Hamilton:

– Even if they have been, to Russia for instruction?

Mr CALWELL:

– An Australian cannot be refused the right of entry to his own country. It is the one country to which he can return. He has no right of entry to any other country. To suggest that an Australian-born person who leaves this country should be refused the right to return to it is to propose a new principle in immigration legislation that has never been advanced anywhere before. It is the most novel and also the most reactionary suggestion I have ever heard. To exclude permanently from their country of origin persons whose opinions one does not like is not the best way to deal with them. The suggestion made by the honorable member has not even been thought of by any government in any part of the world. Such things are not done by Great Britain or any other country of the British Commonwealth, or by the United States of America, where the immigration laws are much more rigorous than our own. I do not propose to do anything to prevent persons with valid passports coming back to Australia.

page 1026

QUESTION

TUBERCULOSIS

Mr FALKINDER:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

– The notice-paper of this House foreshadows the introduction of a bill to provide for medical services for sufferers from tuberculosis.

Is the Minister representing the Minister for Health in possession of any report* by the Director-General of Health or any other authority in relation to tuberculosis? If so, will he table them in order to assist honorable members to inform their minds for the forthcoming debate ?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
ALP

– I am not sure whether there are any printed reports on tuberculosis, but I promise that I shall obtain whatever information is available and supply it to honorable members before the bill is debated in this House.

page 1026

ELECTORAL REDISTRIBUTION

Mr JOHNSON:
ALP

– I lay on the table the following papers: -

Commonwealth Electoral Act - Report, with maps, by the commissioners .appointed for the purpose of redistributing the Stat* of Western Australia into electoral divisions’.

Ordered to be printed.

page 1026

QUESTION

BROADCASTING

Mr BOWDEN:
GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA

– The Minister for Information said in this chamber yesterday that the Government had an excellent precedent to guide it should it decide to nationalize broadcasting. That was a reference, of course, to a statement made by Sir Harry Brown and to certain events which have taken place in the United Kingdom. However, the PostmasterGeneral has said that there is no nationalization or socialization about the proposed new form of control of radio in Australia. In view of the confusion thai those conflicting statements may create in the public mind, I ask the Prime Minister whether he will make a clearcut statement that the Government doe not intend to assume control of commercial broadcasting or to nationalistic whole broadcasting system of Australia ?

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– I made it perfectly clear a few days ago that Cabinet had recommended to the Parliamentary Labour party, that legislation should be introduced to establish a national broadcasting board. The functions of that authority, and the ambit of its operation* will be extensive, and they will be explained to honorable members when the relevant bill is introduced. I assure tie honorable member that it will not contain any reference to the nationalization of broadcasting. The Government has nOt considered that matter.

page 1027

QUESTION

MALAYA

Mr RYAN:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA

– Has the attention of the Prime Minister been directed to a report which appeared in the Manchester Guardian, and was re-published in to-day’s issue of the Sydney Morning Herald, suggesting that Australia should take part in suppressing terrorism in Malaya? What is the reaction of the Australian Government to the statement in the Manchester Guardian that -

Australia’s leadership in the occupation of Japan has given a chance for the improved plan for Commonwealth co-operation in defence to he put into action?

As the Manchester Guardian, which is one of the foremost newspapers not only in England but also in the world, so forthrightly expresses that opinion, does the Prime Minister consider that some positive action should be taken in this matter? What is the right honorable gentleman’s view of a further paragraph in the article that -

It would be interesting to know what Australian opinion is on the place of Malaya - prime irritant just now - in Far Eastern security V

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

– I have not seen the article in the Manchester Guardian to. which the honorable member has referred. Indeed, I have not yet been able to oblige the honorable member for Moreton by reading the article in the Brisbane Courier-Mail which he gave me. As the result of requests from the Malayan Union through the United Kingdom Government, Australia offered to supply small arms and even military equipment that was available here for the maintenance of law and order in the Malayan Peninsula. I have already given details of the kinds of equipment which we have despatched at the request of the Malayan authorities. I also informed the Governor-General of Malaya, Mr. Malcolm MacDonald, that if the authorities later required more equipment of the type with which they had been experimenting, such as Australian “ walkie-talkie “ radio sets, that were sent with the first consignment, we would be prepared to arrange to supply more of them. We have not considered doing anything in addition to rendering that assistance. No consideration has been given to sending any Australian forces to Malaya. I have not heard any comment from honorable gentlemen opposite about the decisions of the United Kingdom, India and New Zealand to withdraw their components from th, British Commonwealth Occupation Force in Japan. Through circumstances over which they have no control, the governments of those countries have either recalled their forces or have indicated their intention of doing so. They had strong reasons for their decisions, but the fact remains that Australia is now playing a greater part in the East and will continue to do so. At the request of the Malayan authorities, transmitted to us through the United Kingdom, we are contributing assistance to preserve law and order in the Malayan Peninsula, as far as we physically can do so, but we have not considered sending any forces to that area.

page 1027

ESTIMATES 1948-49

In Committee of Supply: Consideration resumed from the 29th September (vide page 1016).

Prime Minister’s Department

Proposed vote, £2,878,400.

Mr HARRISON:
Acting Leader of the Opposition · Wentworth

.- The proposed vote for the Prime Minister’s Department provides for an estimated increase of expenditure of approximately £350,000 by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. This includes £31,750 for the investigation of nuclear energy. I believe that the committee is entitled to some information about the kind of research work that is to be performed by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, particularly that associated with secret defence projects. Quite recently a controversy arose in this country over reports that the United States of America was reluctant to pass on to Australia information on atomic research for fear that it would leak out to Russia through Australian

Communists!. The inference was that theUnited States, of. America, was not surethat the Council for Scientific and- Ind,ustrial Research, could, be; relied upon- to> observe secrecy.. The Minister in charge o£ the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (Mr. Dedman), who is also: Minister for’ Defence, rightly defended the council.. Hie said that there was no. basis- for the reports. However, the reports persisted, and caused quite a lot of concern to the1 people of this country, particularly in view- of the repeated disclosure: m this- chamber of the close association of members’ of the staff of the Council for- Scientific andi Industrial. Research with Communist activities.. The people of this country areseeking a clear cut statement from’ the Minister on- the extent to which theCouncil for Scientific and Industrial Research is to be engaged in atomic research’, and is- to share defence secrets. Throughout World’ War II., the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research cooperated closely with the services on secret defence projects’. The- controversy on the reported American attitude towards sharing atomic energy secrets with Australia,, drew statements from some highly placed officials of the Council for Scientific, and Industrial Research. Although the Minister for Defence said chat there was no foundation for the reports, no less a person than the chairman of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, Sir David Rivett, was subsequently reported as. having said that military science should be dealt with in special laboratories under- the- control’ of military authorities. He added that secrecy and integrity in science could not flourish together, and that those who; preached secrecy for security were false guides. Those are interesting observations by a gentleman who knew quite well that the instrumentality which he controls had co-operated closely and successfully with, the defence, authorities during the.. war. Significantly, Sir David’s opinions are supported- by Communists who themselves are participating- in scientific investigations. For. instance, Dr: R. E. B-. Makinson, senior lecturer in physics at the Sydney University, said that science,, to, develop,, must have a free interchange: £ ideas- and; information. That, in< effect, is. the opinion expressed by Si:. David Rivett. Dr., Makinson admitted that he was. chairman of the Science Committee of the Communist party ye? he is senior lecturer- in physics at th». Sydney University and, as we all know, physicists have played a. prominent pan in the atomic bomb and’ atomic energy experiments. The Minister- for Defence stated that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research had nothing to dfc with secret defence- work, but I have already pointed out to the Ministerand it is common knowledge amongst members- of this: chamber, and1 in the community generally - that during, the war the Council’ for Scientific and Industrial Resea.rch worked in close co-opera1 tion with various defence organizations and the services, and that, in connexion with the guided weapons experiments ii Central Australia, which is a joint United Kingdom and Australian project, scientists of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research have been sent te the British atomic research establishment at Hartwell. I understand that arrange ments are in hand’ to send more Australian officers to- Hartwell. Thi? would indicate that the Minister’s assurance that the Council for Scientific and Industrial. Research has nothing to do with secret defence projects- i* so much eyewash. The investigationswhich will be carried out by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research oithis year’s vote will include radio ann aeronautical research, which may or mav not be related to.- secret defence work Similarly, the nuclear energy investigations, may or may not be of a. secret’ defence nature.. 1 do not know. What I seek, from the. Minister is a clear-cu statement to set the mind of the genera public at rest, and I ask him now to say to what extent the Council, for Scientific and- Industrial Research will share top. defence secrets, particularly those relating to the guided weapons range and atomic research. I should like to know, also, why scientists’ are being sent to Hartwell if the Government does- nol intend to> associate some section of. the Council, for Scientific, and. Industrial Research with atomic research.. If the. Minister can make these- things, clear: tei tha committee, and. to the country,, w– shall know! whether our. fears, are’ wellfounded; or. whether we, can leave, the matter entirely to tha Minister, knowingthat: the- military authorities, will eventually assume control of all those investigations. I am not at all. satisfied that secrecy can be observed when, associated, with, this department, are men who have, definitely communistic ideas and who are closely associated with. Com.munist bodies. Such individuals! have the. opportunity to come into contact with defence secrets. The existence of those secrets is,, in: fact,, the present, cause of. most of the world’s unrest. I. put it. to. the Minister foc Defence that if there is »ny suspicion in his own. mind that his department is likely to harbour a. “ leak.” with regard, to matters that may be con: /eyed. to. it through its scientists at Hartveil or through other scientists connected, with the. guided weapons, range or who,, because of their standing in science, are consulted’ with regard to developments in1 atomic energy research in the United1 States of America, he must take steps tosee that such secrets- are safeguarded. Ct is of no use to tell the Parliament that Australia has an investigation- service: which can keep a close watch on the pos ability of leakages, because1 honorablemembers know that the investigation!, service- is neither big enough nor efficient! enough’ to do- so, nor has; it the informawon necessary to give to the. Government! » clear-cut report. Honorable members know full well that in another part- of the British Empire which relied on- a body, almost simi’lar to our’ own investigation service> it was only by chance that the discovery was1 made that’ within that country’s borders- espionage over1 a- wide field’ was being* conducted1 toy Soviet Russia. In that” portion of the Empire there- were men- in high government positions; in departments^ in diplomatic circles, in science institutes, and even in the- country’s’ parliament itself; who had: revealed” to- Russia secret information1 relative to atomic development. Honorable members know that the uncovering o£ that espionage organization resulted’ in those, individuals* being placed behind bars, as traitors to their country; No such action has- been instituted in- Australia, although. I refuse- to< believe- that there is» not in* this country, ato this very moment, a counterpart-, cf that espionage organization. I believe’ that such an* organization is, indeed, well established her.e.. We have in this country the chairman of the Communist part? science committee occupying the posit tion of senior, lecturer in. physics al the University of Sydney. He is. a physicist; who, by the very nature- of the university faculty, to which he if. attached, has. close contact with nuclear energy, investigations and must know a great deal about, that branch of science.

Mr Abbott:

– Does the honorable member refer to Dr. Makinson ?:

Mr HARRISON:

– Yes. I repeal that in our midst in Australia we have a body of’ men who are avowedly foreign agents, and have set up a science committee to which the chief lecturer in physics- at’ Sydney University deliverslectures; That gentleman has1 made a statement which tallies with the statement made by the chairman of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to the effect that if there was to be scientific development scientific subjects must be freely discussed and not kepi secret.. I say- to the Minister- thai he’ has- a1 great- responsibility on hisshoulders1 to-day. World’ conditions border closely on another world’ war. The very factors1 I have- enumerated to-day are1 the’ basis of the failure’ of rival powers’ to come to- an agreement: which would, give the world a promise of peace1. One nation possesses’ the- secret of atomic energy and. another, is. desirous- of obtaining, that, secret. There can be no rapprochement between- them, until their differences in, that regard’ are resolved. If there, is. one weak. link, in the. chain of democratic countries, which, are seeking, to protect their democratic ideals- and? which, to some extent, share the knowledge of atomic developments, and information of a. secret defence’ character that weak, link will endanger the strength of. the. whole chain. Honors able members know- that the United States of America is. reported to. have announced that it will, not communicate information, concerning’ developments, in atomic energy and. scientific defence, research to- Australia, because it fears.-, that, there may- be. a leakage of it. to: Russia through, the Communists here. That in itself should be sufficiently serious to cause the Australian Government to take steps to ensure that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and all other departments through which such information might leak to the enemy, will be purged completely of the Communist element. I very seriously direct the attention of the Minister to those considerations, although I am certain that he is aware of them, as they have been the basis of discussion in the Parliament. The Minister is perfectly well aware of the charges that have been levelled against Communist sympathizers within the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. He was party to the appointment to the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, of a man, who, I am satisfied, has Communist sympathies. I do not know the whole of that man’s family but I know that his brother was a reporter on the Communist newspaper, Tribune, which he represented in the press gallery of this Parliament. That man was an acknowledged Communist, yet he is a member of the executive of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. He is a possible “ leak “. Perhaps he would not give away information intentionally, but he might do so in discussion in the family circle or by chance, perhaps by a loose word. On the other hand he might intentionally divulge secrets, and that information might flow through to the Soviet authorities.

If we value our freedom, there must be no weak link in the chain of democratic countries with regard to defence secrets. I believe that there should be a thorough tightening-up throughout the democracies, so that the secrets of atomic energy, which they hold in trust for the world, cannot be discovered and exploited by some other power whose ideology embraces the objective of the crushing of democracy. The secret of atomic energy, while it remains a secret, is the best form of defence the democracies could have. I hope my remarks will open a discussion in this Parliament during which the Minister will take the opportunity to assure honorable members and the country that the most complete precautions have been taken against the possibility of any leakages of top secret information from his department or through men connected with nuclear energy research. Such an assurance is necessary, because, as ] have stated, information from Australian scientists at Hartwell and others who are in close touch with atomic development comes to Australia and might, if there were a leakage, be passed on from this country to Russia. Australia is not trusted by America with any information about atomic energy developments, and, being suspect, we should clear ourselves of that suspicion. The Minister now has an opportunity of either making a statement for the satisfaction of the committee and of the people of Australia on what precautions are being taken to prevent the disclosure of secrets, or of at least advising the committee and the country that he proposes to take the necessary action to give some sense of security to the people he represents.

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Defence, Minister for Post-war Reconstruction and Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research · Corio · ALP

– The Acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) has raised a matter of some delicacy. He has, however, made a number of statements which I must deny most emphatically. From time to time I have stated in this Parliament that the press of Australia and the Opposition parties generally, have done a great disservice to the country by the wild charges which they have made in relation to security matters. Recently an article appeared in » Sydney newspaper to the effect that the Government of the United States of America was withholding from Austral all information regarding atomic energy, and although there was no truth whatever in that allegation, the Acting Leader of the Opposition has just made a similar assertion. The truth is that under an act of Congress, the Government of the United States is not permitted to pass on to any country information about atomic energy.

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– Does the Minister mean to say that the Government of the United Kingdom has no knowledge of what is going on in the United States? What rot and nonsense! I have it on authority that the Government of the

United Kingdom is working in the closest collaboration with the Government of the United States of America.

Mr DEDMAN:

– Although the Acting Leader of the Opposition has just stated that he has it on authority that the Government of the United States is releasing such information to the Government of the United Kingdom, I repeat that the United States Government is prohibited, by act of Congress, from doing so. I have examined the relevant United States statute, which is described in the preamble as “ An act for the development and control of atomic energy “, a copy of which I have in my possession. Section 10 of that act, which is headed Control of Information “, provides - Until Congress declares by joint resolution that effective and enforceable international safeguards against the use of atomic energy for destructive purposes have been established, there shall be no exchange of information with other nations with respect to the use of atomic energy for industrial purposes.

Mr Harrison:

– Who is talking about industrial purposes? I did not mention industrial purposes.

Mr Lang:

– Where can the United States act be examined?

Mr DEDMAN:

– I shall table the extract from the act which I have in my possession, and I can obtain a copy of the statute and show it to any honorable member who desires to examine it.

Opposition members interjecting,

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Sheehan:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Order! Although the Acting Leader of the Opposition was beard in silence, immediately the Minister commenced to reply the whole of the Opposition let loose a barrage of interjections. That is most disorderly, and I <hall not permit it to continue.

Mr McDonald:

– I rise to order. I understood you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, to say that the whole of the Opposition has released a barrage of interjections while the Minister was speaking. [ point out that I have not interjected at all.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

– I heard noise from the whole of the Opposition. If all members of the Opposition would remain quiet, then the Opposition as a whole, would not be blamed for disorderly conduct.

Mr DEDMAN:

– I understood the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Gullett) to say by way of interjection a little while ago that the United States Government does not trust the Australian Government. As I have said, the truth is that the United States Government is prevented by law from revealing information concerning atomic energy.

Mr Harrison:

– Information for industrial purposes.

Mr DEDMAN:

– Any information whatever concerning atomic energy.

Mr Harrison:

– The statute which the Minister quoted referred only to information to be used for industrial purposes.

Mi-. DEDMAN.- If the Acting Leader of the Opposition knew anything about atomic energy, he would realize that any information concerning its use for industrial purposes could also be applied to military purposes. Although that should be obvious to any one who reflects on the matter, a Sydney newspaper did not hesitate to make sensational allegations in headlines 1 inch deep, and the Acting Leader of the Opposition has repeated those false aggregations in this chamber. In order to emphasize the true position 1 repeat that the United States Congress has prohibited the release of information regarding atomic energy except by a joint resolution of both Houses of Congress-

– Why ‘should not .an ustralian take part in such <research?

Mr Abbott:

– But what arrangement are being made for security here? Was Sir Percy Sillitoe perfectly satisfied with the arrangements?

Mr DEDMAN:

– The honorable mem-

Der appears to be very dense in this matter. I ‘have been telling the House that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research undertook this work during the war, and during the entire period of war there was not one single, leakage.

Mr Abbott:

– How does the Minister enow .that’? The traitor Rudkin was taken back on the staff of the Council for .Scientific and Industrial Research after hie ^betrayal of secrets during .the war.

Mr DEDMAN:

– I -remind honorable members ‘that we ‘are dealing with the estimates for the Council for Scientific ‘and Industrial Research at present, -not with the estimates for the Defence Department. During the war the .council undertook ‘work of a highly secret character. There was not ‘one single leakage :anywhere in connexion with that work, due to the nature >f ‘the security precautions ‘that were taken with regard ‘thereto. Tn –tire postwar period, the Council for Scientific and .Industrial Research .kas gradually vacated the field of matters regarding which security precautions had to be taken, and at present none of the council’s work is of a secret nature. 1 have .already -said that .that position is about to be altered, that some .defence scientific research will be undertaken in Australia, and that unless some other provision is made, such research may have to be undertaken within the laboratories of the council. I have .said .that, presently, when that situation arises the necessary arrangements will be made and defence scientific work of that kind may be undertaken within the Department of Supply and Development, in which a special defence scientific division will “be set up.

Mr Abbott:

– An entirely new laboratory?

Mr DEDMAN:

– The .’honorable member for New- England is .never satisfied. When he implies that security arrangements are not as they should be in connexion with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and I tell him that there has been no leakage and thai in future if defence scientific work is to be ‘undertaken it may foe taken elsewhere than in the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, he immediately suggests that .that will mean the construction .’of new laboratories. The honorable gentleman can just wait and see. His .question will be answered in due course. 1 have .made it clear that all the attacks in the press and all the allegations of the Acting Leader of the Opposition in “relation to the cutting off of information about atomic energy from the United States of America amount te a mare’s “nest. The Opposition and the press have done a great deal ‘of .harm to this country hy bruiting these allegations abroad. There is .not the .slightest foundation “for them.

Mr FADDEN:
Leader of the .Australian Country .party · Darling Downs

– It is nothing new, of course, for members of this Parliament to be .the recipients of half truths and lying .statements from the Minister for Defence (Mr. Dedman), who has spoken in thi? debate -as the Minister in charge o’f the Council for ‘Scientific and Industrial

Research

Mr FADDEN:

Mr Dedman:

– No. I did not say that.

Mr RYAN:

– The Minister definitely did say that. Everybody in this chamber heard him. It is useless for him to be evasive on this matter any more. His talk of secrets in the past and secrets in the future reminds me of the passage in Through the Looking Glass - “ Jam to-morrow and jam yesterday - but never jam to-day “. The facts have been proven. The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research to-day, as in the past, is dealing with important secrets.

In order to explain why the Government of the United States has not passed any secret information to the Australian ^Government, the Minister quoted an act of the United States Congress. What does that act state? It provides, almost in these words, that “ under this act no information concerning the use of atomic energy for industrial purposes is to pass to any other country “. Having quoted that provision, the Minister - and this is the cream of his whole argument - asserted that the use of atomic energy for industrial purposes is the same as the use of atomic energy for military purposes. The Minister has been in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research for three or four years-

Mr Dedman:

– For seven years;

Mr RYAN:

– That makes the story all the worse. He has also been in charge of the Department of Defence for some time. Yet, with all that knowledge at his disposal, he does not seem to know the difference between the use of atomic energy for industrial purposes and its use for military purposes.

Mr Dedman:

– I gave a lecture on the. subject recently.

Mr RYAN:

– It must have been an extremely bad lecture. Atomic energy was first developed for military use. The secret was discovered and a technique was worked out so that atomic weapons have nOW passed the experimental stage and are actually in existence. The first atom bomb has been improved to such a degree that the latest bombs are far more destructive. However, the development of atomic energy for industrial purposes is still in its infancy. The whole technique is entirely different from that required for military purposes, as the Minister knows well. The latter is merely a process that produces a reaction from uranium leading to a terrific and prolonged explosion. The use of atomic energy for industrial purposes requires conservation of power and its gradual release without ‘ bad effects to men or equipment.

Mr Dedman:

– I know only too well that the honorable member appears to know nothing about this subject.

Mr RYAN:

– I have studied this subject with considerable care and I know much more about it than the Minister does. “When he declares that the- Government of the United States will not pass on. the secret of the atom, bomb because of the act which he quoted, he says something which he knows, to be untrue. I know that the report read by the Leader, of the Australian Country party is very close to the truth. At present,, representatives of the United Kingdom and the United States of America are in close consultation, not regarding the use of atomic energy for industrial purposes, but for the purpose of developing atomic power still further for military use. 1 repeat that the Minister has endeavoured to mislead the Parliament and the country. He must realize that, if Australia is to co-operate with the United States of America and the United Kingdom in the development of this new branch of military science, we must clear out theAugean stables of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and other departments where Communists ar* harboured.

Mr ABBOTT:
New England

– During this discussion we have heard a characteristic speech by the Minister for Defence (Mr. Dedman), defending Communists, and even speaking very highly of them. He protects- them in the high places to which he has appointed them and generally declares that the Communists are innocuous- animals that should really be looked after instead of treated as Fifth Columnists who are ready to smash this democracy just as they have smashed other democracies’. The Leader of> the Australian! Country party (Mr. Fadden), whose speech was ably supported by the honorable member for Flinders (Mr. Ryan’), described what happened at a meeting at No. 10 Downingstreet, gave the exact hour of the meeting,, and quoted what was said by Mr. Attlee to the Prime Minister of Australia. Mr. Attlee stated clearly that the governments of. the United- Kingdom and, the United States of America werenot satisfied with Australian security measures and doubted the trustworthiness of certain officers employed in the- Council, for Scientific and Industrial Research:., and were therefore afraid to trust Australia with atomic secrets- because of thedanger of leakages. The Leader of th, Australian Country party has quoted’ almost the exact words- which were- used at a. meeting, of, the executive of the- Council for Scientific and Industrial. Research’ on the 6th July last. The Minister foi Defence, who was present, stated thai the American and British governments were not willing to share secret research work on the development of the atom bomb and nuclear energy for military use with the’ Council for Scientific and

Industrial Research, because they believed that the knowledge- would not be kept’ secret by certain officers of that institution. The statement by the Minister at the meeting of” the* executive givesthe lie direct to the statement which he has made in this chamber this afternoonand which, through the press and; theradio, will be conveyed to the people. The Minister cannot have it both ways-. [ have no reason to doubt that he was telling the truth at the meeting of the executive of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research because- he had no political objective to gain. There were few votes to- be won at that- meeting. The Minister had no reason to mislead the other persons at that meeting, but’ be has every reason to mislead the people of Australia, and make them believe- that the British and American governments are satisfied that all possible precautionsare taken in Australia to ensure the preservation of secrecy.

I nui st pass to a brief consideration of thi cloud that has been present in minor degree for a. long time, but’ has grown starkly in recent times; the threat, now much more than a, mere threat,, to that frectrade in scientific knowledge of all kinds, which has been th* glory of these last three hundred years that have seen the most rapid advance in human knowledge of nature since man. began hi.course … I want rather to bring. to YOU notice the inevitable sequel to this horror.-

– In the estimates for the Prime Minister’s Department, under the heading “ Council for Scientific and Industrial Research “, appear the words “nuclear energy”. That phrase, I assume, refers to the splitting of the atom and the use of that process to cause an explosion in a bomb known as the atomic bomb. The atomic bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were prototypes of the atomic bombs that are now being developed. Sir David Rivett said in his address that the secrets of the atomic bomb are only a set of engineering procedures - he dismissed it lightly in that way - which other nations are certain to develop in a few years. That statement would encourage young scientists to believe that it was not necessary to be secretive about the processes at all. Some months ago the United Kingdom Government sent to this country Sir Percy Sillitoe, the head of MI5, which is, I understand, the security department of the United Kingdom Government. I do not know whether he came here at the request of the Australian Government. I am informed that his report upon security arrangements in Australia was of such a devastating nature that he would not disclose it to the Australian Government, but took it back to the Prime Minister of Great Britain.

Mr Dedman:

– Who told the honorable member this fairy story?

Mr ABBOTT:

– My information comes from a high authority, who knows the Minister and with whom the Minister is acquainted only too well. I may disclose his name on some future occasion. I understand that the Prime Minister of Great Britain was so horrified at the contents of the report that he treated it as a key matter in his discussions with the Prime Minister of Australia when the right honorable gentleman visited Britain I understand, further, that the PrimE Minister of Australia himself was shocked when he saw the report of what this British expert on espionage had discovered in this country. Would anybody expect discoveries of any other kind to bf made? Many honorable members have studied the report of the royal commission which inquired into the activities of Russian spies in Canada, and many of us have read Victor Kravenchko’s book. I Chose Freedom, and studied other accounts of Soviet espionage and fifth column work throughout the world. There is every reason to suppose that the Russians are doing the same in Australia as they are doing and have done in other countries. The Minister for Defence is now leaving the chamber, driven out by the cogency of my arguments, to warn the Prime Minister not to tell a different story. The security of Australia is supported by very thin threads. What has happened in other places in the world must undoubtedly be occurring here to-day. For those reasons, and because of what was said by the Leader of the Australian Country party and the attitude adopted by Sir David Rivett in the address, “ Science and Responsibility “, which was delivered at the University College in the City of Canberra, the greatest need exists for the Government to realize its responsibility and to take the strongest possible action to drive fifth columnists and Communists from the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and the defence departments and arsenals of Australia. Mr. Norman Sheppard, the chief metallurgical engineer in the Lithgow Small Arms Factory, is ‘the secretary <of the Lithgow Communist party. Lithgow is a town in the electorate of Macquarie, which -is represented by the Prime Minister. Australia needs patriots at its head, and not flirters with communism.

Mr. ARCHIE CAMERON (Barker) ;4.57]. - During the fourteen years that [ have been a member of this Parliament, [ have witnessed .some tense scenes in this chamber, but I have never seen one which -quailed that which occurred this after-

Loon. The Minister ‘for Defence “Mr. Dedman) is the Minister who s charged with the responsibility for answering to the Parliament for the leeds .and misdeeds of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. He made certain categorical statements regarding the .security of certain information and said that the Commonwealth vas not in any way suspect by the Governments of the United Kingdom and he United States of America. The Minister was followed by the Leader of r,he Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden), who quoted from two documents hat he declared were confidential documents. Having regard to the spirit in which the Ministry has so frequently acted, I say that ‘the right honorable gentleman was perfectly right in not disposing ‘the source of his information. One of those documents, which I have now seen, concerned a statement which The Minister for Defence is alleged to have made to the executive of the Coun:11 for Scientific and Industrial Research a’t Wentworth House, Me].bourne, on the ‘6th July of this year. The Minister made no attempt to deny or qualify the statement that was -made by he Leader of the Australian Country party. The honorable gentleman has now left the chamber. He has folded Tip his papers, as the Arabs fold their tents, and vanished ^completely. He sat ‘here throughout the castigation that was given him ‘by the Leader of the Australian Country party and did not deny or qualify any statement that -the right honorable -gentleman made. I am reminded -of the New Testament story about -a married ‘couple who went to see me of the Apostles. They did a little prevaricating and denial. The husband, being found out in ‘his lie. died “and was carried out and buried. The wife, noi knowing -what .had -occurred, ‘later told the ‘same lie, and the Apostle said to her-

Behold, the feet rft t,hem which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall ‘earn thee out.

– I stated earlier that 1 was not satisfied that the method of appointment to the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research was entirely satisfactory, and I also stated that 1 had made no alteration of that method, which has been unchanged since the council was established. I do not mean by that that the situation should not be reviewed from time to time; in fact, it is being reviewed at the present time.

I claim, very strongly, that no individual in Australia, the United States of America, or the United Kingdom, and no member of the Opposition in thi? Parliament can point to a single leakage that has occurred from the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. 1 challenge any member , opposite to point to any leakage whatsoever. I repeat that the statements- made here to-day give the measure of the responsibility, or irresponsibility, of honorable members of the Opposition. I again challenge them to mention any leakage that has occurred either during the war period or since.

Mr Fadden:

– The Minister’s statement to the executive of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research was a definite leakage.

Mr GULLETT:
Henty

.- In the last few minutes the Parliament has listened to the most pitiful series of evasions from the Minister in charge of this department. It was obvious to-day, as it has been on other recent occasions, that the Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (Mr. Dedman) will say anything at all in support of his case and that he has not even the slightest regard for the veracity of his statements. I propose to deal now with two matters in regard to which the Minister’s attitude was most unsatisfactory. Certain definite charges: were made against the Government this afternoon, and: the Leader of the Australian Country party (Mr. Fadden) produced documents and read a verbatim report on which he based charges of a most disturbing nature. Although members of the committee anxiously waited for the Minister to reply to those charges, the honorable gentleman simply stated that he refused either to confirm or deny that he had addressed certain remarks r,o members’ of the Council, for Scientific and Industrial Research. Similarly, he refused, to commit: himself in: regard to the conversation between, the British Prime Minister and. the Australian Prime Minister (Mr. Chifley), although, be must be perfectly aware of the gist of that conversation and thecircumstances surrounding it. The reasonwhy he refused to make a definite- statement is that he knows- that he– cannot deny those allegations. It is of no use for- him to endeavour to mislead the committee, because1 anything said at- the meeting- of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research is recorded and its’ utterance cannot be denied.

The Minister had a great deal to say about leakages of information from the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and challenged honorable members, on this side of the chamber to give specific instances of leakages which have occurred. Qf course, we cannot give any such details. In Canada, no one could have revealed the leakages that were taking place until a member of the Soviet legation informed the Canadian Government of what had been going on. for years under its nose. Are not similar ideal conditions for espionage present in this country? Are there not people associated with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, whom, no- one in his senses would, trust with confidential information? Are there not Communists in positions of authority under the- Government, and are there not “ fellow- travellers “ even m the Government itself? Does not the Soviet embassy maintain a swollen staff; which is very actively- employed ? Do not Communists like Jones and. Lockwood”attend overseas conferences, and meet representatives of foreign powers to whom they can confide any information, thai may be of-‘ value to those foreign powers f Circumstances similar to those which obtained, in Canada before the revelations of. the treachery which was occurring in that country were made, exist in Aus’ tralia. It is utter nonsense to contend that,. Because no. public disclosure ha/ been, made of any leakage of vital information, such leakages are not. occurring. The time will come when the discovery of some particular breach, of security will reveal the degree of. espionage which is. occurring, and then we shall hear, a sorry tale of the leakages that are nov occurring under the present Government.

Although specific- allegations of a- most serious nature have been made against the Government no attempt has been madeto refute them. The- Leader of the- Australian Country party said, in my opinion quite rightly, that Australia is not trusted by either the United Kingdom or the United States of America. In the light of the- serious state of affairs- that has been revealed’ this- afternoon how could we possibly, be trusted by those countries? Indeed, we know that we are not trusted by the United Kingdom, and no one is more aware of that than is the Minister. Some time ago the United Kingdom Government sent to Australia members of M.I.5 for the purpose of inquiring into the security precautions taken in this country, and those officers will report to the highest authorities in the United Kingdom. Doe. the Minister see the reports of that organization ?

Mr Dedman:

– I rise to order, Funds for the security service are provided under the proposed vote for the AttorneyGeneral’s Department, and such matters’ should, not be discussed during debate on the Estimates for the Counci for Scientific and Industrial Research-,

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:

-(Mr. Hadley). - The honorable member cannot discuss the general matter of security while the committee is debating the estimates for the Prime Minister’.’ Department.

Mr GULLETT:

– I shall confine myself to. that aspect of security which is related to- nuclear, experiments and atomic research. I understand that the members of the British military intelligence organization to which I have referred were sent here in order to ensure that defence projects involving the United Kingdom were conducted by the Australian Government in such ‘a way as not to endanger the security of the United Kingdom, and to investigate whether the Government could be entrusted with the supervision of the important experiments which are to he .made in this country, [t is a terrible disgrace to Australia that the British Government should find it necessary -to send military intelligence officers to this country in order to discover the state of affairs here. If the Minister insists that our security precautions are adequate, will he tell the committee whether he ‘has access to the reports submitted by the British military intelligence organization on conditions in this country ? .If the honorable gentleman has .been given access to such reports, will he deny “that they reveal a most disquieting state o’f affairs?

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN .(Mr. Burke). - I call the honorable member for .Bourke.

Mrs BLACKBURN:
Bourke

. -Mr. Deputy Chairman-

Mr Archie’ Cameron:

– -I rise to order. I desire to know whether the committee is to discontinue discussion of the estimates for the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research-

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN.- Order ! The .honorable member for .Bourke has the call.

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · CP; LP from 1944; LCL from 1951; LP from 1954

-. - :On a point of order, ‘T ‘desire to ‘know whether the honorable member for Bourke ;(Mrs. Blackburn) is now about to ‘discuss the estimates for some department ‘or authority other than “the Council for Scientific and Industrial ‘Research and if tO ‘whether that would close the debate on the estimates for ‘the Council “for Scientific and ^Industrial ^Research.

The DEPUTY CHAIRMAN.- Members of the committee are entitled to discuss any ‘item included in the estimates for the Prime Minister’s Department. The honorable member for Bourke :may -proceed.

Mrs BLACKBURN:

– I refer to Division, No. 12, “Public Service Board, and I intend to say something in regard to the conditions of women employed in the Public Service. I have received a .number of letters from women employed .in Commonwealth departments and from various organizations of female officers, which reveal the existence of considerable dissatisfaction. Grave dissatisfaction is expressed that women who perform work similar to that of male officer* receive lower salaries than are paid to men, and it is alleged that women cannot expect promotion to senior positions unless they possess higher qualifications than male officers of the departments in which they are employed. Other grievances relate to salaries and .security of tenure. I am aware that section 49 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act restrict* the employment, of married women in the Public Service, and that only certain Commonwealth departments find it expedient to employ them. Married -women employed in the Public Service -suffer serious disadvantages compared with men in that they can not become permanent officers and their superannuation rights ar< seriously affected. Apart from the restrictions imposed by ‘section 49 of the act, ‘the ‘board ‘has officially stated that it ‘regards the employment of married women in the Public Service as undesirable, and that, “ apart ‘from other considerations, it is not considered that Australian conditions ‘are such that the employment -o’f -married women -would be advisa’ble from a social ‘viewpoint.” “What exactly “does that mean? The women concerned -would certainly ‘like the Government or the board to clarify that -statement. Recently, the Canberra Association of Women Graduates discussed “the ‘employment of women in the Public Service, and those discussions -were concerned ‘mainly ‘with ‘four matters : the salaries :of departmental ‘librarians, ‘the sentry of women ‘into the Third Division. the “temporary “employment of women in ^permanent ‘positions, and ‘the ‘employment of married ‘women. The association pointed out that women employed as librarians -in the .Commonwealth departments .are ‘.at ‘a disadvantage -compared with those engaged as librarians in the Parliamentary and National libraries. Departmental librarians are paid not more than £304 per annum plus certain margins and cost of living adjustments, whereas male librarians with similar qualifications can rise to more than £600 a year. It has been suggested that girls should be permitted to sit for examinations for entry to the Third Division, if they so desire, and that they be appointed <>n a competitive basis to such vacancies as may occur. It has also been suggested that women graduates seeking appointment to the Public Service under section 36a of the Commonwealth Public Service Act should not be debarred from permanent appointment because of their ex. In reply to these suggestions, the Public Service Board has stated that continuity of experience in the Public Service is essential to promotion to senior administrative posts, and for this reason it is regarded as undesirable that, as a general rule, women should be employed in clerical and professional positions. Women are permitted to compete, with men for appointment to the British civil service and the New South Wales public service. At the 1st April, 1947, there were employed in the various sections of the British civil service 423,496 men and 264,206 women; but in the Third Division of the Commonwealth Public Service at the 30th June, 1947, only 65 women were employed, as compared with 14,079 men. Some women university graduates have complained that they have been given temporary employment in permanent positions for which they applied, and that no reason has been advanced tor this action except that of sex. It is claimed that it is not always possible to obtain immediately the services of a suitably qualified man, and that a woman may be employed temporarily until a suitable man can be secured. Sometimes women with the highest qualifications have had to give way to men with much lower qualifications. Women are not convinced that the practice followed by the Hoard is the only course to be pursued, md they recommend that, if a woman applicant for a permanent position is regarded as fulfilling the educational, medical and other requirements of a position she should be appointed to it per- *frs. Blackburn manently, after serving a satisfactory probationary period.

Finally, I propose to speak of the position of married women. Owing tothe present labour shortage, married women are now freely employed in a temporary capacity, not only in the Commonwealth Public Service, but also in the public services of the various States. Some women who have married have continued to be employed in the positions they occupied prior to marriage, but, as the result of their marriage, they have been re-employed on a temporary basis, with loss of salary increments and rights to accumulated sick leave and recreation leave. This is unjust and unnecessary, and is certainly not conducive to efficient work. The British civil service and the New South Wales Education Department have lifted th, ban which previously existed on the employment of married women. Why should not section 49 of the Commonwealth Public Service Act be deleted, thus allowing Australia to take its place in the forefront of progress? . It seem* that in this respect we are sadly out of date.

These are only some of the mattersconcerning the Public Service Board that have been brought to my notice. My attention is constantly being drawn to unsatisfactory features of the board’* administration. I have brought some matters forward at question time and I understand that some of them are already being dealt with. The organization of the Commonwealth Public Service needs to be revised. I suggest that women should be appointed to the Public Service Board and take part in the discussions with other members of the board on all matters relating to the appointment and employment of women. Women members of the board would also be helpful in giving advice relating to difficulties that may arise when men and women are working together. They would also be able to give valuable advice on the employment of juniors. I trust that, for the benefit of women generally, the suggestions which I have made wil1 receive the early consideration of th* Government.

Mr RYAN:
Flinders

.- -Like the honorable member for Bourke (Mrs. ^Blackburn) I, too, wish to raise a matter which comes under Division No. 12, Public Service Board. I propose, however, to deal with an aspect of the board’s administration different from that dealt with by the honorable member. During the last fortnight or to we have heard many statements by Ministers and by honorable members opposite relating to what they describe as the wonderful prosperity which this country is now enjoying. We have been told that everybody in Australia to-day is prosperous, happy and contented. The honorable member for Riverina (Mr. Langtry) said that prosperity reigns everywhere. I marvel at these statements, because it seems to me that honorable members opposite, particularly the back-benchers, should at least know that in the Commonwealth Public Service here is a great deal of dissatisfaction, particularly amongst those on the lower ranges of salary. Ministers and honorable members opposite generally should know what these people feel when they are told, as they so often are told these -lays, about the wonderful age in which we live. To many of our public servants those words must surely sound like i hollow mockery. It has recently been brought to my notice that a great deal if dissatisfaction exists among Commonwealth public servants in Victoria, and probably throughout Australia, because salary adjustments have not been made to meet the rising costs of living. I understand that no changes have been made in the salaries of public servants for many months, notwithstanding that, -luring tie last six months or so, the cost ->f living has risen by approximately 14 per cent. According to the Commonwealth Statistician the cost of living is mow 43 per cent, above the pre-war figure. It may well be a good deal higher than that. The claims of our public servants should be carefully investigated by the Public Service Board, either of its own volition or at the instigation of the Government. It is most important for the good government of our country that the members of the Public Service be contented. Public servants express a good deal of dissatisfaction about their plight, particularly when they recall how members of this Parliament last year gave themselves a 50 per cent, increase of their parliamentary allowances. Noi all honorable members have accented that increase.

Mr Daly:

– Did the honorable member accept it?

Mr RYAN:

– No. I believed then aI believe now that we had no justification for doing so until we wen satisfied that the wages and salaries of all members of the Common wealth Public Service had been adjusted to meet the steeply falling purchasing value of money. The honorablemem ber for Reid (Mr. Lang) pointed out with great justification that’ the Government seems to be mesmerized by figures. Ministers note that public servants who. a few years ago, were receiving £5 a week, are now receiving as much as £9 a week, and they say how wonderful it is. They overlook the fact that £9 will not nov. buy as much as £5 would buy then. Public servants have, therefore, cause to be dissatisfied. I do not propose to say what increase of salaries is justified ; that is not my province, but the matter should be investigated without delay.

Mr. TURNBULL (Wimmera) [5.42 J. - I desire to bring to the notice of the Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (Mr. Dedman) the need to discover, if possible, some way to eradicate onion weed, which is rapidly taking possession of the country in the vicinity of Swan Hill, with a consequent loss of production. The Government says that it wants more production. At Labour party conferences, resolutions are carried stressing the need for greater production; or, at least, thai is what we are told. If we are to increaseprimary production, the fertility of the soil must be maintained and noxious weeds controlled. The Swan Hill Shire Council has repeatedly asked me to bring before the Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research its request that onion weed be scientifically investigated. I brought their representations before the Minister, and in reply he wrote saying that the officers of the council were too busy to undertake .the work. The shire council was persistent, and wrote saying that the Minister evidently did not understand the seriousness of the onion weed menace. It pointed out that the Council’ for Scientific and Industrial Research was financed out of the taxpayers’ money, and that the taxpayers of the Swan Hill district were entitled to benefit from its work. The Minister, however, persisted in- his refusal to help. I now ask him what- he proposes to do about it. He may accuse me of working the parish pump, but this is a matter of more than local interest. The Minister is not listening- to me, and Joes not know what I have been saying. When he was- attacked this- afternoon for permitting the leakage of information about atomic- energy; he was stung to reply in his defence, but he now sits at the table deep in conversation with- the Vice-President of the Executive Council(Mr: Scully)’, and’ ignores what I anr saying to him on behalf of my constituents. Now that he is giving me his attention, I ask’ him whether he is aware if’ the nature of the replies which he sent in response to my representations, or- did he sign the letters without reading diem? Is he- prepared to accede- to- the request of the Swan Hill Shire Council ? Does he propose to reply in this chamber to- the representative of the farmers who have- asked, him for help ? Will he ask his officers to investigate the onion weed menace?,

The day before yesterday, I read, a statement in the press by a prominent grazier that the economy of Australia vas being “nibbled away by rabbits”. That was. a true statement, and, I should like to know what the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research is doing about it. I have received letters: from primary producers,’ organizations suggesting, that a reward of £5,000, or even 610,000, should be offered as. an inducement, to scientists to discover a method of eradicating the rabbit pest..

Mr Lang:

– Put Don. Mountjoy on the job

Mr TURNBULL:

– I do not knowwhether; he. has ever caught a rabbit. I. am suggesting- that scientists- should undertake the investigation.. The: Minister for. Commerce and Agriculture (Mr.. Pollard) seems to regard rabbit-raising, as- a basic industry. It. is,, he- says,. a wonderful dollar:earner

Mk Barn abd: - -It was a< great dollar- na mer.- last.year.

Mr TURNBULL:

– Yes; it. earned some dollars,, but do, honorable member* realize, the the loss, caused, by rabbits) is, a. hundred times greater than what can be. made- out of- them-? Therefore,. I. ask theMinister in charge1 of the Council for Scientific and Industrial, Research to gm the council to. investigate: the rabbit pest: with a view to. controlling it.

Progress- reported.

Sitting suspended from 5.50 to 8, p.m.

page 1052

INTERNATIONAL, TRADE, ORGANIZATION BILL 1948

Bill presented by Mr. Dedman, an* read a first time.

Second- Reading.

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Defence, Minister foc Post-war Reconstruction and Minister in charge of theCouncil for Scientific and Industrial. Research · Corio · ALP

,. - by, leave - L move -

That the. bill, be now read a second time

This bil! is- concerned with Australian, acceptance of two distinct but- related documents, the charter for an International Trade Organization and theGeneral Agreement on Tariffs and Trade The charter was laid on the table of tb> House on the 16th June, 1948’, and » copy has been circulated to all honorable members. The International Trade Organization will, if it is established’ encourage, and to some extent, supervise and regulate international action aimed at increasing the volume of world trade as a contribution, to the full employmentand rising standards of living of mem be nations, and. will, assist, in the creation of conditions of stability and wellbeingnecessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations. It will’ be essentially, a rule-making and supervising body. The House, will.1 recall, that, the draft, charter which was prepared, in Geneva last year by the Preparatory Committee was tabled in this Parliament before- it was presented to the World’ Conference on Trade, and, Employment which met in- Havana. and* a- lengthy debate, on it, took, place in- this. House in February 19.48., The* charter,- gives effects to principles which were included! in the- Mutual Aid. Agreement, t particularly- Article- . which, was, concluded by, the: Government >f the United States. o£ America with. Australia, and many other countries, including the United: Kingdom, in September, 1942.. In that agreement, the Governments: undertook to- participate in agreed action directed to the expansion, by appropriate international and domestic measures, of production, employment, and the exchange and consumption of goods, to the elimination of all forms of discriminatory treatment in international commerce, and to the- reduction of tariffs ina other trade barriers.

Australia has been closely connected with the negotiations- since the proposal Tor an International’ Trade Organization vas adopted by a resolution of the Economic and Social Council in February, 1946. The council’ set up a Preparatory Committee of nineteen- countries, in which- Australia- participated1 actively and subsequently convened the world conference which drafted the Havana .barter.

Prior to and throughout the negotiations) which commenced in October, 1946, there have been continual discussions between members of the British Commonwealth on matters- of. common interest which were affected by the.- negotiations.

The charter will’ enter into force on the sixtieth day following the day on which a- majority of the governments which signed the final act at Havana have deposited instruments of acceptance with the Secretary-General of the United Nations.

Mr Abbott:

– How many have done so; so far?

Mr DEDMAN:

– If; however, by the 24th March, 194’9, it. has not so entered into force, it will’ enter into force on the sixtieth day following the day on which twenty of the governments that participated in the conference- at Havana have deposited their instruments of acceptance. Bt is- likely that most of the countries which participated in the conference will defer the- deposit of instruments of acceptance until the1 Congress of the United States has considered the charter, which is not likely to- occur before January, 1949.. That is the answer to the: interjection by the- honorable member, for New England, (Mr:, Abbott)),, a moment ago.

The General Agreement on Tariffs; and Trade, the: second, document with, which this bill is concerned, is closely linked with th& charter of the International Trade Organization. It. contains- the tariff rates negotiated at Geneva, in 194? on the basis of. mutual, concessions between, the participating countries. Honor able, members will recall, that the- agreement was-, laid before the Parliament earlier this year and debated by thiHouse in February and March. That debate was followed .by legislation ratifying changes- in the rates of duty to bring them- into accord with the agreement The agreement1 is at present being operated provisionally <by 22 countries which were concerned’ with its construction. While operation is provisional, any member country maj withdraw on 60 days’ notice and need not take the full legislative steps- regarding trade policy which are required by full adherence: Full adherence- pledges member countries- noi to withdraw before 1951. It is, I think, unlikely that any . country will make full acceptance of the General’ Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, as distinct from applying- it provisionally, until a decision has been made on the entry into force of the charter. I. might point out to honorable members that once b sufficient number of countries are apply ing the agreement definitively, they ar* empowered to declare, that a country which is only applying, it provisionally i* no longer a contracting, party to. the agreement..

Some amendments were made to th»terms of. the general agreement at session*of the- contracting- parties- at Havana it March of this year, and again at Geneva in August and> September. The main purpose- of these amendments-) which weneffected by a series of protocols, was to bring the general agreement, on its. rulemaking and structural sides, into line with amendments made at Havana to thitext of. the International Trade Organization charter. Two of those protocols are concerned’ entirely with rectifications of the tariff, schedules contained in the general’- agreement, but these only pick up slips andi misprints between the schedules as> negotiated’ and as originally printed Copies of. all these- latest- documents-. together with copies of the articles of the general agreement have been supplied to honorable members. I have also placed several copies of the original three volumes of schedules of tariff concessions, which form part of the general agreement previously dealt with by this House, in the Library, as there are insufficient copies of that large item for me to be able to supply a set to each honorable member.

As honorable members will observe when reading the bill, Australia signed the protocol modifying Part II. and Article XXVI. with a reservation as to acceptance. We did this because the United Kingdom also signed with a reservation as to acceptance. We have asked the United Kingdom for its views on the reservation, and we desire to consider further the matters arising from them. There is provision in the terms of the protocol for those countries which signed with reservation to deposit an instrument of acceptance with the United Nations, and the Government accordingly asks in this bill for approval to deposit such instrument when thoroughly satisfied. Honorable members have been supplied with a copy of this as of all other protocols.

Now I desire to say something about the charter of the International Trade Organization. It is designed - (a) to establish an acceptable commercial code of rules and mutual obligations which the member governments undertake to observe in their relations with one another; (b) to set up an International Trade Organization which is intended to act as a means of consultation, collaboration and joint action for member governments in the field of international commercial policy, and to provide a medium of settlement of trade dispute among its members.

I have supplied honorable members with a detailed statement describing the provisions of the charter and the manner in which they will operate and will therefore confine my remarks to an outline of the broad implications confronting Australia in accepting or rejecting them.

Throughout its participation in the negotiations, the Australian delegation sought to secure a charter adapted to the interests of this country. It particularly sought to establish -

the importance of maintaining employment and effective demand, particularly in the major industrial countries of the world that will continue to represent the biggest markets for our exports ;
the need forgreater stability of prices for primary products in order to stabilize the incomes of primary producers and to reduce the undesirable economic fluctuations resulting from extreme variations in prices for these goods;
freedom for Australia to deal with economic problems of particular concern to it, for example - (i) industrial development by tariff protection: (ii) protection of the balance of payments; and (iii) stabilization plans for primary industries ;
the principle that British Commonwealth countries should not be required to reduce, or eliminate, preferences except in return for compensating concessions and that these preferences are a recognized exception to the general mostfavourednation principle;
limitations on the use of restrictions on imports of agricultural products by countries which in the past maintained domestic agriculture at uneconomic levels by means of import quotas and other impediments to importa tion and by so doing reduced their demand for Australian exports ; and
the necessity to promote actively the development of underdeveloped areas and by raising living standards in these territories to increase the demand for imported goods.

I believe that the charter can be examined in the light of the foregoing objectives and will be found to meet them. It has been the policy of the Australian Government that no commitments in relation to commercial policy, particularly those which required a reduction in restrictions on imports, could successfully be maintained unless the conditions under which Australia could continue to export to the full capacity of its industries are maintained. Primarily this requires conditions of full employment and high levels of effective demand in the major industrial countries of the world. In recognition of this the charter contains a chapter devoted to employment and economic activity and in Article 3 each country accepts an obligation to take notion designed to maintain full employment and a large and steadily growing demand. In the event of a failure of others to maintain employment and demand, the provisions of the charter unable a country, such as Australia, whose exports would be affected, to seek from the organization a review of its obligations on commercial policy, or even to obtain release from continuing obligations fo maintain low levels of tariffs or from other responsibilities under the charter. Tn any case there is provision within the charter for a country to take emergency action with respect to tariff concessions wanted if conditions threaten domestic industry.

One of the principal duties of the organization will be the promotion of agreements between governments relating to the international marketing of primary commodities. The purpose of these agreements will be to ensure that producers can plan their production ahead with a knowedge of a guaranteed return for their exportable surpluses. Such agreements ure not for the purpose of reducing the return to producers hut for overcoming the wide fluctuations in the actual returns ro growers and, consequently, to give to hem a greater stability of income. Commodities for which such special interna; 10na 1 agreements are completed will then bo exempt from the other provisions of he charter which might conflict with any undertakings in those agreements.

The development of Australian industry has for many years been encouraged by tariff protection granted by Parliament after inquiry by the Tariff Board. The charter imposes no restriction on the raising of tariffs and the only obligation is in respect of duties that are bound against increase for a period of time under the general agreement. It was the policy of the Government in the course of the Geneva negotiations to refrain from negotiating items whose future industrial development it was felt might require the raising of the tariff sooner than the expiration of the three-year period for which the general agreement will initially be in force. Moreover, the charter recognizes the right of a country to seek to withdraw from the general agreement its commitment under any tariff items before the end of a threeyear period in order to raise the duty for the purpose of assisting industrial development. Whilst this procedure requires the consent of substantially all the affected parties it is a clear and important recognition of the right to seek to re-negotiate a duty in special circumstances.

Past experience has shown that countries must, at times, take immediate action to protect their international monetary reserves. Balance of payments difficulties are, at the present time, a matter of concern to most of the countries in the world and the use of quantitative restrictions to control a decline in their foreign exchange reserves is an essential part of the policy of those governments. The charter recognizes completely the need of countries to use quantitative restrictions to safeguard their balance of payments and a special exception for thi>purpose is contained in Article 21. Thi.article, and the provisions of Article 23. relating to the discriminatory use of quantitative restrictions, are highly technical and complex. However, they cover our need to apply and maintain quantitative restrictions if there should be a decline, or a threatened decline, in out international reserves.

For many years domestic marketing schemes, such as those covering butter and wheat, have operated in Australia for the purpose of stabilizing returns toprimary producers. These schemes, with which honorable members are full; familiar, have resulted at times in higher prices being paid by Australian consumers than by overseas purchaserswhile at other times the reverse has been the case. Recognition of this type of marketing scheme has been obtained for the purposes of the charter and the provisions of the charter restricting export subsidies do not apply to these Australian stabilization arrangements.

Article 16 of the charter, which contains astatement of the mostfavourednation principle, specifically excludes from that generalization preferences exchanged between members of the British “Commonwealth prior to various dates laid down. There is no obligation for these margins of preference to be reduced except by agreement of all the parties concerned. Any such action would be taken only in return for tariff concessions made by other countries as part of a bargaining process having mutually advantageous results, as was the case with the Geneva tariff negotiations. It is to be noted that no new preference may be created and that this extends in principle to all the members of the organization. However, as honorable members are aware, no other British country has extended a new preference of importance to Australia for many years, and the Government of the United Kingdom is, irrespective of the charter, formally committed against such an extension of preferences. It is also known that the Government of Canada is opposed to an extension of, or the creation of, new preferences. On the other hand, this prohibition on the exchange of preferences applies generally to all other members of the organization, and it has been apparent in the course of the negotiationsleading to the formulation of the charter that a number of those countries which are in the same economic region or have complementary economies would, but for this obligation, have sought to create new preferences to a far greater extent than the charter now permits. New preferences may be permitted only in the interests of economic development orreconstruction or under a customs anion arrangement, and in all cases with the approval of the organization. Detailed criteria must be complied with before consent will be forthcoming. Past experience has shown the extent to which overseas markets for Australian exports of agricultural products have been closed bythe imposition of quantitative restrictions. These restrictions have been imposed bythe older industrial countries, which have sought by this means to pro tect high cost agricultural production. The charter provides for a general prohibition on the useof import quotas in this manner except in temporary circumstances or under conditions in which the domestic production of the article is also restricted.Rising living standards in the under-developed countries of the world would increase the demand for imported goods, particularly foodstuffs. More than a recognition of this need for development is required, and the charter placet on the organization the responsibility for actively encouraging the development of these areas by advising members and providing them with assistance in their planning. Positive action of this type should ensure an expanding volume of international trade from which Australia, as an important supplier of food, would benefit considerably.

I think honorable members will agree that these points amply show that the charter includes provisions which meet the main requirements of Australian interests. In making a decision whether it would be advantageous to become a member of the organization, we should,I think, consider a little further the following four aspects of the question: - (a.) the contribution that the organization can make to the solution of world economic problems and to the maintenance of healthy economic conditions;

the effect of the charter on Australian export markets for primary products and manufactured goods, by its application to the economic policies of other countries ;
the effect which the charter may have on the economic policies of Australia; and (d)the attitude of other countries. On these points, I shall make some observations forthe consideration of honorable members. The charter requires, as a condition for freer commercial policies, an undertaking by all countries to pursue policies designed to maintain high and stable levels of employment and effective demand. The present world conditions of shortages of goods and scarcityofhardcurrenciesmask the ultimate need to ensure thatthere are maintained. in our overseas markets steady levels of employment and consequent increasing demand for our primary exports, [f these obligations are successfully carried out, these market conditions for all internationally traded goods will be assured. If there is a failure to carry out these undertakings by the major marketing countries, then Australia and the other countries adversely affected will have strong justification under the terms of the charter for taking emergency action to protect their own economies against the impact of adverse economic conditions overseas, and also a sound basis for urging in the organization international action to correct the decline of demand.

Members of the organization undertake, in Article 4, that, if their balance of payments shows a persistent excess of exports over imports and is thus creating balance of payments difficulties for other member countries, they will play their full part in restoring equilibrium. This, for instance, would require such a country as the United States actively to pursue policies designed to correct a disequilibrium between dollar and non-dollar currencies. The absence of successful action provides a basis for complaint by affected countries and for the urging of international action through the organization. On the other hand, for countries whose balance of payments is unfavorable, provisions have been inserted to ensure that measures to prevent a continuing decline in monetary reserves may be taken.

Although some of the principles set out in the charter are subject to exceptions which may be applied to meet the specific needs, for example, of underdeveloped countries, countries in balance of payments difficulties, and countries dependent on primary exports, the general effect of the charter will be to secure recognition of the need to follow non -restrictive trade policies to the fullest practicable degree. Some of the main industrial countries may require to make use of some of the exceptions until the war damage to their economies has been overcome, but others, notably the United States, will be in a position to apply the charter terms from the beginning practically without recourse to the exceptions Provided in the charter. This alone will undoubtedly be to the benefit of the rest of the world because of the expanding, market which the United States provides for exports -from other countries, especially in view . of the. restraint imposed by the charter upon the adoption of restrictive practices which may have the effect of providing unreasonable protection for domestic industries and so limiting competition with those industries.

Honorable members are well aware that international trade disputes in the past have frequently had widespread and detrimental effects resulting from action taken by individual countries without regard to the effects upon others. The establishment of the International Trade Organization will provide a forum in which there can be prior consultation tending to limit the scope of trade disputes and lead to their earlier settlement. For this reason Chapter VIII. of the charter provides for extensive consultation and arbitration. It will also be possible for members to refer to the organization, for advice and study, developments inimical to international trade as they become evident. The adoption of a generally accepted code in international trade, which provides adequately for the realization of legitimate national and commercial objectives, will also tend to eliminate the detrimental effects resulting from the grosser forms of national self-sufficiency.

Australian exports will benefit directly from the maintenance of good demand conditions in the world and particularly from the adoption of non-restrictive trade policies by highly developed countries such as the United States of America. Future tariff negotiations of the kind concluded in Geneva can lead to further benefits for our industries. The development of new export markets for Australian goods will increase the benefits to be obtained from direct negotiations with those countries and indirectly from the negotiations which, may be undertaken by other countries. The limitation on the use of quantitative restrictions by importing countries, from which Australian exports of primary products have suffered in the past, will also strengthen our export position. Moreover, our existing schemes for the stabilization of primary export industries are fully protected.

On the other hand, the charter leaves the main structure of existing imperial preferences substantially preserved. Although new preferences cannot, except as provided in the charter, be established by any country, existing preferences obtain international recognition and we are not required to surrender the preferences we enjoy except in return for compensating benefits in other countries’ markets as a result of a mutually satisfactory bargain. The need for development of sound export markets for Australian manufacturing industries increases the interest of this country in the provisions of the charter which provide for freer trade and a reduction of trade harriers. [ have already dealt at some length with the relationship of the charter to Australia’s particular interests. It is evident from what T have said that the Australian delegation has secured recognition in the charter for the basic elements of policy followed by Australia in connexion with international trade. This relates particularly to the protection for Australian manufacturing industries, stabilization plan for primary industries //.nd restrictions necessary for the protect l (: Il of the balance of payments. It can be said, that the charter requires no change in Australian policies and few, changes and. those only minor, in the present Australian commercial legislation or practices, and that it will not prevent our dealing adequately with any economic problem likely to arise in the future as a result of our adherence to the charter.

Of the 56 governments represented at Havana, all except Argentina and Poland signed the final act of the conference authenticating the text of the Havana charter. The United Kingdom delegation stated that its Government, in deciding to sign the final act, had also decided to submit the charter to the Parliament with the Government’s support. It seems likely that the charter will not be submitted to the Congress of the United States of America until 1949.

This bill makes Australian acceptance of the International Trade Organization membership conditional on United States and United Kingdom acceptance. It is provided under this bill that Australia shall not deposit an instrument of acceptance of the charter until this has been done by the governments of Britain and the United States. The usefulness and success of the organization will depend upon the willingness of such major trading nations to accept membership. As joint sponsors, the United Kingdom and the United States are indispensable to the organization’s effectiveness. For this reason, I feel that some honorable members on both sides of the House will agree that the Government has acted wisely in making our own acceptance of both the charter and the agreement conditional in this way. On the other hand, it would be almost certainly disadvantageous for us to decline membership if British and American acceptance is forthcoming, because the organization and its members would, in fact, constitute a large and powerful trading group whose members would exchange most-favoured-nation treatment from which we would be excluded.

There is no need for me to enter here into details of the International Trade Organization. As honorable members are aware from, previous debates, the powers and duties of the organization given to it by the charter will be carried out by the conference of the members. The conference will also determine the policies of the organization. It may, by a simple majority decision, assign to the executive board any power or duty of the organization. The executive board is to consist of eighteen members selected regularly by the conference. In the event of our accepting membership of the International Trade Organization, Australia would appear to have an excellent chance of election to this executive board. There should be ample room, therefore, for Australia to take an active part in the formulation of the policy of the International Trade Organization when it is established, both in the conference and the executive board. Outside the organization, we could have little or no voice at all in formulation of world trade policies.

I turn now from the International Trade Organization charter to the distinct but related General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. In pursuance of the principle of reductions in tariffs, the members of the Preparatory Committee present in Geneva negotiated last year the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. The agreement is in practice intimately linked with the charter. Any tariff concessions which may be agreed upon as a result of any future negotiations completed under the charter, will be fitted into the framework of the general agreement on terms to be agreed upon by the parties concerned. By the operation of the general most-favoured-nation treatment provided for in the charter, Australia stands to gain from such negotiations, even though it may not participate in every one of them. When the charter comes into force, the general clauses of the agreement will be suspended, or rather merged into the corresponding sections of the charter. The agreement will then consist of the tariff concessions and the unconditional most-favoured-nation clause, together with Part III., which contains certain machinery provisions directly related to the operation of those concessions.

If the charter is accepted by the Australian Government, there will be no purpose in failing to accept the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, which has been provisionally applied by Australia since the 1st January, 1948. The period of the agreement is initially for three years, but may run on thereafter, subject to withdrawal by individual contracting parties on six months’ notice or to the re-negotiation or withdrawal of individual tariff concessions. The Government is now seeking authority for the definitive, as distinct from provisional, application of the general agreement at such time as the governments of the United Kingdom and the United States of America shall have taken action to apply the agreement definitively to their respective countries. I have explained earlier in my speech the practical distinction between provisional and definitive acceptance and application.

In preparation for the first conference of the organization, an Interim Commission has been established, and an executive committee of eighteen members has been elected. Australia was one of the countries elected, and is participating actively in the work of the Interim Commission, thus preserving a link that was established when the project . was commenced. A session of the executive committee of the Interim Commission has been concluded at Geneva during this month. Thus it is hoped to assist in the determination of the early policy of the organization in a manner that will ensure its development on sound lines and in the interests of Australia development in international trade.

The charter should provide conditions in which an expanding volume of international trade will be secured, and Australia, as a large and growing export country, has a very material interest in such a development. The charter does not require important changes in our present practices. If our hopes for expanding world trade are not realized, then the conditions which restrict our exports will provide an acceptable reason for a review of our own commitments in respect of the charter, and we shall therefore be no worse off for having attempted to co-operate with other countries in the achievement of this objective. The price of isolationism will be at the least a failure to derive benefits from tariff concessions exchanged between the major trading countries of the world that are members of the organization. But there are wider reasons, equally compelling, for giving- the International Trade Organization every opportunity to prove, itself. As I suggested earlier, success by this body could go very far indeed in creating conditions of stability, cooperation and trust among the nations on which alone we and all nations may live together in freedom and good neighbourliness. For these reasons, the Government has decided that, on balance, it will be in Australia’s interest to accept membership in the organization and to accept the general agreement, and therefore it commends the bill to the House. “ Mr. Hughes. - When will the debate be resumed?

Mr DEDMAN:

– The debate will not be resumed until the House has dealt with other bills on the notice-paper.

Mr Hughes:

– Will the debate be resumed next week?

Mr DEDMAN:

– No, but it may be resumed in about ten days’ time.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Harrison) adjourned.

page 1060

NATIONALITY AND CITIZENSHIP BILL 1948

Bill presented by Mr. Calwell, and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Information and Minister for Immigration · Melbourne · ALP

– by leave - I move -

That the bill De now read a second time.

This is an historic occasion in the life of our nation. The bill which I have the honour to present this evening seeks to establish for the first time the principle of Australian citizenship, while maintaining between the component parts of the British Commonwealth of Nations the common bond of British nationality. The importance of the measure lies in the fact that it marks another step forward in the development of Australian nationhood. This step is a logical one, and is- the inevitable consequence of the decisions of successive Imperial conferences. They culminated in the Statute of Westminster, which established each dominion of the British Commonwealth of Nations and Great Britain itself as equal partners, independent of each other and joined together in a legal sense only by the bond of a common allegiance to His Majesty the King.

The bill is not designed to make an Australian any less a British subject, but to help him to express his pride in citizenship of this great country. That is a. pride which is praiseworthy, because it is based on a belief that Australia has done as much as any other British nation to develop, expand and improve the free institutions and systems of organized society that had their origin in the United Kingdom. Our friendly competition to excel, not in conquest or power, but in the development of decent and democratic social structures is not, unfortunately, as well understood as it should, be in some parts of the world, but the success that has been achieved to date is a legitimate cause for satisfaction. To say that one is an Australian is, of course, to indicate beyond all doubt that one is British; but to claim to be of the British race does not make it clear that one is an Australian. The time has come for Australia and the other dominions to recognize officially and legally their maturity as members of the British .Com monwealth by the passage of separate citizenship laws. Therefore, it gives me great pleasure to introduce this bill that will enable Australia to proclaim its own national citizenship and establish theduties and responsibilities as well as the rights and privileges that are inherent in it.

Mr Lang:

– I rise to order. I submit that the Minister is not in order in moving the second reading of a bill that is not before the House. I have asked for a copy of the measure, but I have not yet been able to obtain one.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mi Clark:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

– The bill is on the table. J understand that copies are now being handed to honorable members.

Mr CALWELL:

– I fulfilled the legal requirement by presenting the bill. If the honorable member for Reid (Mr. Lang) is too lazy to walk to the table for a copy, that is his affair.

Subject to certain modifications designed to meet conditions peculiar to Australia, the bill puts into effect the principle on which the United Kingdom Nationality Act 3948 is based. In that act, the British Government recognized that the people of each of the selfgoverning countries of the British Commonwealth of Nations had a particular statu* as citizens of their own country as well as their wider status as British subjects. The bill makes other changes in nationality law, and in particular it achieves an end which the Australian people have long sought, which is, the removal of the disabilities imposed on married women and their placement, so far as their national status is concerned, on an equal footing with men and single women.

Nationality legislation is without question a difficult and complicated matter, and it may be worth while to review briefly the historical position in relation to British nationality. Originally British nationality was only conferred under the common law by birth within the legiance of the Crown. If a person was born in England, he became at birth an Englishman, irrespective of the nationality of his parents. Having been born an Englishman, throughout his life he was able to assume the obligations and enjoy the privileges acquired by birth on British soil. With the growth of the King’s dominions, complications arose in regard to the children of Englishmen born outside England, and legislation become necessary to recognize such children as British subjects by virtue of the fact that their fathers or paternal grandfathers were born on British soil. The question was further complicated by the development, within the British Commonwealth, of dominions which were, in fact, sovereign States with power and authority equal to those of the United Kingdom. Such countries made their own laws, laying down the conditions under which British nationality was acquired or lost so far as each individual country was concerned. The legislation passed by the various Dominions had local effect only, with the result that a person who was recognized in one British country as a British subject was regarded in others as an alien. In 1914, however, the United Kingdom Government introduced a bill for the purpose of consolidating the British law and applying it uniformly throughout the whole of the British Commonwealth. At various stages the parliaments of the Dominions passed legislation along similar lines, thus bringing into effect what is known as the “ common code “ system. While the introduction of this system marked a definite advance on former British nationality legislation, it was found not to solve all difficulties, and a new method was sought which would retain all of the advantages of the “ common code “ system and. avoid its defects. The only workable plan that could be found was based on the principle of combining local citizenship of an individual member of the British Commonwealth with the maintenance of the general status of British subject. This method has been decided upon after consultation between the various members of the Commonwealth.

The question of the relationship between the common status possessed by all subjects of His Majesty and the particular status of membership of any one of the individual communities forming the British Commonwealth of Nations is by no means a new one. The con.sideration of legislation to define who were the- nationals or citizens of a particular community did not begin, as some may think, with the enactment of the Canadian Citizenship Act in 1946. The subject was dealt with in the Report of the Conference on the Operation of Dominion Legislation, 1929, and in the Sum. mary of Proceedings of the Imperial Con.ference. 1930. The report of 1929 pointed out that British subjects not only have the common status but also, generally speaking, have a particular connexion with one or other of the members of the British Commonwealth. It also pointed out that, in the absence of rules for determining the part of the Commonwealth to which any particular person belongs, practical difficulties arise, or might arise, with regard to such matters as immigration, deportation, diplomatic action, extra-territorial legislation and treaty rights and obligations. The suggestion was made that these difficulties could be overcome if each of the member states of the Commonwealth were to introduce legislation defining its nationals or citizens, but it was found that some member states were not then disposed to introduce such legislation.

The matter was again considered at. the Imperial Conference of 1937. In its report the conference stated -

It was recognized that, to a greater or les* extent members of the Commonwealth, whether or not they have given legislative definition to such a concept, do distinguish for some practical purposes between British subjects in general and. those British subjects they regard as being members of their own respective communities.

The report went on to say that the phrase “ members of the community “ of a particular member of the Commonwealth was intended to have rather a technical meaning, as denoting a person with whom that member of the Commonwealth had, either by legislative definition of “its nationals or citizens or otherwise, decided to regard as “ belonging “ to it for the purposes of civil and political rights and duties, immigration, deportation, diplomatic representation, or the exercise of territorial jurisdiction. In the light of these considerations the conference reached the conclusion that -

It is for each member of. the British Commonwealth to decide which persons have with it that definite connexion envisaged in the Report on the Operation of Dominion Legislation, 1929, which would enable it to recognize them- as members of its community. rt is desirable, however, to secure, as far ais possible, uniformity in principle in the determination by each member of the Commonwealth, of the persons, being British subjects, to be regarded as members of its community.

The difficulties which have arisen under the system of nationality legislation which now operates, and which is generally known as the “ common code “ system, are set out at some length in the explanatory memorandum which has been supplied to honorable members. There is, therefore, no need for me to labour this point. It will be sufficient for me to say that these difficulties did cause the Australian Government concern and that it felt impelled to introduce special legislation in regard to. the status of married women and residents of the Territory of New Guinea, although this involved a departure from the “ common code “. In 1945, the Government considered the question of legislation to provide for a legal Australian citizenship, combined with the maintenance of the common status of British sub.jects in Australia. About the same time, advice was received that the Canadian Government proposed to introduce a Canadian citizenship bill in the near future, and it was decided, in the circumstances, to defer consideration of the question of Australian citizenship legislation for the time being. The passage of the Canadian act in 1946 was followed in February, 1947, by the Conference of Nationality Experts of the various countries of the British Commonwealth, convened at the invitation of the United Kingdom Government, to discuss a draft scheme prepared by the United Kingdom authorities. Their plan combined local citizenship with the wider status of British subject. The conclusions of the conference are embodied in the explanatory memorandum. The United Kingdom and New Zealand Governments have passed nets, which will come into operation as from 1st January, 1949, on lines similar to those of this bill, and other British Commonwealth countries have indicated that they are willing to do the same.

It should be clearly understood, and this is a point which I cannot too strongly emphasize, that creation of an Australian citizenship under this bill will in no way lessen the advantages and privileges which British subjects who may not be

Australian citizens enjoy in Australia. British subjects, whether they are now in this country or enter it in future, will continue to be free from the disabilities and restrictions that apply to aliens. They will qualify for the franchise and have the right to become members of Parliament or to enter the public services. A British subject who is not Australianborn will be able to become an Australian citizen by a simple act of registration, but he will not suffer in any way whatever should he fail to do this. No doubt a great many British people not born in Australia will seek citizenship, but they will not make the move as a means of obtaining any practical advantage whatever, but purely as an expression of pride in this country and its achievements, which I have already mentioned as being strong in the breasts of native Australians. Let me make it plain that the “ common code “ system has, in effect, broken down, and that the only means of maintaining the existing common status of British subjects throughout the British Commonwealth is in the concept that citizenship of an individual member of the Commonwealth shall carry with it the common status. This is effected by clause T (1), which is the key clause of the bill. It provides that -

A person who, under this Act, is an Australian citizen, or by an enactment for the time being in force in a country to which thi? section applies, is a citizen of that country shall, by virtue of that citizenship, be a British subject.

The section applies to the United Kingdom and colonies, Canada, NewZealand, the Union of South Africa, Newfoundland, India, Pakistan, Southern Rhodesia and Ceylon. Before passing to other phases of the bill, I wish to make it clear that this is in no respect a party measure. This point was emphasizzed when the British bill was under discussion and was accepted by all parties, as thifollowing quotations will show. The Earl of Perth said -

Tt is good to find that under clause 1 of the bill the citizens of nearly all the countries of the Commonwealth will still bear the proud title of “British subject”. … It is an overriding status, and I hope that this most valuable factor and tie between the various nations of the British Commonwealth will always remain.

Lord Altrincham said -

In the first place, let me say that the bill as a whole seems good, wise and tidy. I congratulate the Government upon it and upon the understanding with the Dominions upon which it has been founded. The bill is an example of our present constitutional practice in Commonwealth affairs of bringing the legal structure of the Commonwealth into as complete consonance as we can manage with reality - and by “ reality “ I mean the way in which the King’s lieges think and feel, both as nationals of their own country and as members of a world-wide community.

Lord Tweedsmuir expressed the view that the real basis of the measure was that it would give clear recognition to the separate identity of particular countries. He believed that the word “ identity “ was an important part of their strength and the encouragement of that “ identity “ would be a source of continuing strength. Such opinions will, I hope, convince any one who may still doubt the fact that this bill is not, in any particular, opposed to the wishes of the United Kingdom. It is, in fact, a measure of a kind which the United Kingdom Government, and the leaders of opinion in all classes in the United Kingdom, wish to see enacted in the British Dominions. It is designed to eliminate complications in the matters of nationality and citizenship that were not more irritating to us than they were to the authorities in the United Kingdom itself. The explanatory memorandum will give honorable members a comprehensive view of the general provisions contained in the bill and I do not, therefore, propose to deal with all these matters in detail. Tt is desirable, however, that I should refer to some of the more important matters. The first of these is. How will Australian citizenship, which will carry with it the wider status of British nationality, be acquired? It will be achieved in a number of ways such as (i) by birth in this country; (ii) by descent if born outside Australia; (iii) by registration in the case of British subjects other than Australian citizens, or Irish citizens; and (iv) by the grant of naturalization in the case of aliens. These provisions will operate only in the a case of persons born after the commencement of the act or of those who apply for registration or naturalization after that date. Provision has, however, also been made in the transitional clauses which are clauses 24 to 31 to cover the cases of persons who are British subjects immediately before the date of commencement of the act and by reason of these “ provisions they will not only retain their British nationality but also will acquire Australian citizenship automatically if they have a definite association with this country.

In the provisions in regard to loss of citizenship two new principles have been incorporated in the bill. The first is that an Australian citizen, who is also a national of another country, and who serves with the enemy forces in any war in which Australia is engaged, shall forfeit his Australian citizenship. The second provides for loss of citizenship in the case of a person who becomes a citizen by registration or naturalization, if hu continues to reside outside Australia for a continuous period of seven years without registering annually at a consulate, unless he is abroad in the service of thu Government. The House, I am sure, will agree that those provisions are both justifiable and desirable.

I pass now to the status of married women. It is my belief that our proposals in this regard will have not only the full backing of every member ofthe Commonwealth Parliament and every woman in Australia, be she British or alien, but also of every male in our community who has given any thought to this subject. I have always held the view that it was most objectionable that solely because a woman married a man of another nationality, she was obliged to accept his nationality. Because this has been the case, Australian women have, from time to time, been placed in worrying and even humiliating situations, and it has long been agreed by enlightened people that the citizenship rights of a woman should not be in any way inferior to those of a man. Efforts have been made to ameliorate the position by prescribing that on marriage a woman should not lose her British nationality unless she acquired her husband’s nationality. This did not completely satisfy the Australian Government, which in 1946 passed special legislation to provide that British women who married aliens while resident in Australia, should not, . in this country, be deemed to have lost their British nationality. It is our wish, however, that every woman, whether married or single, shall equally as free as a man to determine what her nationality shall be. The bill provides for this, and moreover, restores their British nationality to women who by reason of marriage may have became aliens. Such women who are resident in Australia and comply with the transitional provisions of the bill will also become Australian citizens.

Under existing law certain children born in foreign territory are under some practical disadvantages. For instance, the child, born out of wedlock, of a British mother does not acquire British nationality, even if his father is British. In 1946 I appointed a. committee of women, representative of the main political bodies in Australia, which was presided over by Senator Tangney, to consider the problems arising from the possession by mother and father of different nationalities. Following on a recommendation of that committee, provision has been made in the bill that a child born in a foreign country, whose mother was an Australian citizen or was a British subject ordinarily resident in Australia, shall be an Australian citizen, provided that such a child is eligible for admission to Australia as a permanent resident. Provision has also been made in the bill that children born out of wedlock, on foreign soil, of British fathers and alien mothers shall become, according to circumstances, Australian citizens or British subjects if their births are made legitimate by the subsequent marriage of the parents. An anomaly in regard to the position of posthumous children is also rectified by the bill. Such children will in future become Aus7 tralian citizens if at the time of the father’s death he was an Australian citizen.

The position of Irish citizens under the bill has been clearly defined in the explanatory memorandum and I feel that there is little I can say by way of further observation. Briefly, this is a question which mainly concerns the United Kingdom and Irish Governments ; and by Irish Government I refer to the Government of what was formerly known as the Irish Free State, now .sometimes known according to its Gaelic title as the Government of Eire. The Irish Government .has made it clear that, whilst it has objections in principle to an Irish citizen still being regarded as a British subject as a matter of course, it raises no objection to any Irish citizen who has association with a particular Commonwealth country - by descent, residence or otherwise - becoming a citizen of that country. * Under the provisions of the bill, which are identical with those of the United Kingdom Act. it rests with an Irish citizen to declare that by reason of his association with this country he wishes to become an Australian citizen, and on doing so he will acquire Australian citizenship. British subjects in Ireland enjoy certain material advantages which are not afforded to aliens, and, as a reciprocal measure, the bill provides that Irish citizens in this country who do not become Australian citizens shall not be treated as aliens.

Clause 41 calls for special mention, lt provides for arrangements to be made for the oath of allegiance to be taken in public before a judical office, and to be accompanied by proceedings designed to impress upon applicants the responsibilities and privileges of Australian citizens. In a statement on government policy made by me in the House on the 22nd November, 1946, 1 said -

It is my belief that the present procedure connected with the taking of the oath of allegiance by applicants for naturalization leaves much to be desired. At present the prospective new -citizen merely attends hi.» local courthouse and takes the oath before a magistrate or clerk of courts. It seems to me. however, that such an occasion calls for o dignified induction ceremony that would serve to instill into the minds of applicants n proper appreciation of the value of the new citizenship, which carries with it certain obligations and responsibilities as well asprivileges and benefits. Such a ceremony, based on the American practice, would, I feel sure, produce the same excellent results as have been achieved in the United States.

Provision has been made in the bill to give effect to the views then expressed. It is proposed that the oath of allegiance shall be taken in open court, when the Australian flag shall be prominently displayed and have pride of place, and that an appropriate address shall be given by the presiding judge or magistrate. He will impress upon applicants the responsibilities as well as the privileges and benefits which will follow from their new status. The old system, under which a man’s naturalization papers came to him through the mail, like his annual- licence for his dog or his motor car, was most inappropriate. A man from a foreign country makes one of the greatest decisions of. his life when he decides to migrate to Australia. If he finds life here so satisfactory that he decides to become an Australian and to establish his family of new citizens here permanently, that is another of the great decisions of his life - a great and joyful decision. It should be marked by a solemn ceremony, an impressive occasion which he and his children will remember. He should not simply receive a paper that entitles him to certain new privileges. He should be made aware in warm, spoken language, of the responsibilities he is assuming, and officially welcomed as a New Australian. The Government now proposes that that shall be done, and that a matter affecting the whole of a man’s- life and that of future generations of his family shall no longer be merely a piece of office routine.

Another innovation so far as naturalization in Australia is concerned, which has been included in the bill, is the provision that normally an alien wishing to become naturalized shall first make a declaration of intention. The reasons why this requirement has been adopted are set forth in the explanatory memorandum.

No honorable member will, I think, deny that it is most desirable to formulate some method under which a common nationality will prevail throughout every part of the British Commonwealth, and that we should avoid, if at all possible, the situation that a person is recognized as a British national by one community and not by another. There are only two ways by which the conception of a common nationality can be achieved. One is by having a common code under which every member-nation of the British Commonwealth must legislate in the same way and practically at the same time. That method has been tried and found wanting. The second way is the concept under which the Government of each Commonwealth community shall decide for itself who are to be its citizens, and that the gum total of the citizens of the various members of the British Commonwealth ball ‘have the common status of British subjects. The principle embodied in the latter conception is expressed in this bill.

This legislation, which is similar to that already passed by the United Kingdom and New Zealand Governments or likely to be passed in future by other Commonwealth countries, is a logical development of the Statute of Westminster. That Statute created no new status, to the members of the British Commonwealth; it merely gave legal expression to an existing state of affairs, namely that the self-governing Dominions were free and independent nations, equal in status to the Mother Country within the boundaries of. an agreed Commonwealth of Nations. The statute has in no way weakened any of the ties between the various nations which comprise the British Commonwealth. In a similar fashion this bill, by fully and properly recognizing the individual identity of each Commonwealth community and at the same time preserving the status of a common nationality possessed by all1 these people, will prove a binding and unifying factor between the various communities comprising the British Commonwealth.

Incorporated in the Australian flag itthe Union Jack,’ and similarly in this bill there is complete recognition of our close ties with the United Kingdom and the other countries of the British Commonwealth. Provision is made for us. while identifying ourselves as Australian citizens, to remain British subjects, and. having regard to legislation passed, or about to be passed, in other British countries, we must adopt this bill or Australia will be the only unidentified country from the point of view of citizenship in the British Commonwealth, and Australians the only members- of the British family without a name of their own.

When this bill becomes an act. it will be proclaimed on Australia Day, the 26tb of January, 1949, and the occasion will he a memorable one. It will symbolizenot only our own pride in Australia, but also our willingness to offer a share in our future to the new Australians we are seeking .in such vast numbers. These people are sure of a warm welcome to our shores.. They will no longer need to strive towards an intangible goal, but can aspire to the honour of Australian citizenship. They will be able to say, just as proudly as any of us, “ I am an Australian “. Perhaps those words will mean even more to those who remember life in less fortunate lands than to us who enjoy the freedom of plenty, the sunshine and social equality, of this great democracy.

My aim, and that of the Government, is to make the word “ Australian “ mean all that it truly stands for to every member of our community. We shall try to teach the children that they are fortunate to be British, and even more fortunate to be Australian. We want to emphasize the brief but glorious Australian history, in which so much has been accomplished so quickly, and to foster and encourage our young but vigorous traditions of mateship, cooperation, and a fair deal for everybody. Therefore, I commend this legislation to the House, deeply conscious that it marks yet another historic advance towards national greatness.

This vast and virile country, which we are privileged to hold, and for the development of which we are responsible., can be made as great and noble a land as we, with our collective brains, muscles, and devotion to a high* ideal, wish it to be. We owe that much to our forbears who pioneered this country, with few of life’s amenities but with stout hearts and limitless courage. They opened its fertile plains, explored its rivers and won the bounty of its soil and the mineral treasures below. We owe it, too, those who will come after us to develop the splendid heritage that is ours. We must hand it on to them untarnished. This bill is more than a cold, legalistic formula. It is a warm, pulsating document that enshrines the love of country of every genuine Australian.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Harrison) adjourned.

page 1066

IMMIGRATION (GUARDIANSHIP OF CHILDREN) BILL 1948

Bill presented by Mr. Calwell, and read a first time.

Mr CALWELL:
ALP

– I ask for leave to move the second reading of the bill fothwith.

Mr ACTING DEPUTY SPEAKER:
Mr. Sheehan

– Is leave granted?

Mr Archie Cameron:

– No.

Leave not granted.

page 1066

TUBERCULOSIS BILL 1948

Second Reading

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Melbourne PortsMinister for Labour and National Service · ALP

– I move -

That the bill be now read a second time.

One of the greatest tasks confronting the nation at this time is the maintenance of national health. One of the most serious diseases, and at the same time one of the most readily curable when found in its early stages, is tuberculosis. Contrary to the old belief, tuberculosis is not hereditary, but it is infectious and can strike any one, and at any age. The eradication of tuberculosis should concern every Australian citizen. The disease is difficult to control because in its early stages it gives little or no warning of its presence. It has been said very truly, in another place, and by a greater voice than mine, that “ Peace hath her victories, no less renowned than war “.

One of the greatest victories which we could achieve in this country would be to destroy or reduce, by combined action, the scourge of tuberculosis. This disease is as much the enemy of our people as is any military force which confronted us in the recent war. However, it is an enemy that can be destroyed, or at least reduced to impotence, by means within the knowledge of the medical profession, and at hand.

The measure now before the House is designed to enable battle to be joined with this enemy, to co-ordinate the forces available to the attack, and to bring all the efforts of governments and the medical profession to a close focus on the disease, so as to eradicate, or at least reduce it to minor proportions, in this generation. The bill seeks to initiate a campaign which will call for a high degree of co-operation from the people, their governments, State and National, organs of publicity, and the members of the medical profession. A high degree of co-operation and assistance has “been forthcoming from ex-servicemen’s organizations and other voluntary associations conducting sanatoriums in directing public attention to the need for a campaign against the disease. Their efforts have been a most valuable contribution to the education of the public, and it is hoped that this co-operation and support will continue and integrate with the wider campaign. I think, and I am sure honorable members will agree with me, that the cause is a worthy one, and that the victory to be won will confer great and lasting benefit on this and succeeding generations of our people.

Tuberculosis strikes at men and women in their most vigorous years, which is their most productive and reproductive period. It causes far more deaths among women of child-bearing age than all the risks of pregnancy combined. The incidence of the disease is highest among the young and active, who have their most useful years before them. Its attack is insidious, and frequently its presence is unsuspected until its ravages are so far advanced that the sufferer is doomed either to long years of incapacity or to early death. I am sure that many honorable members will recall among their acquaintances young and brilliant men and women who were first crippled, and then killed, by this disease, which, in Australia, is by far the greatest individual cause of death among men and women in the prime years of adult life, that is between the ages of 20 and 40 years. In 1946, the latest year for which details are available, tuberculosis was responsible for 27.6 per cent, of deaths from all major individual causes among people aged from 20 to 39 years. It caused more than twice as many deaths in this age group as did cancer and tumors, and exceeded by more than 50 per cent, the total of deaths from diseases of the heart and circulatory system among people of these ages. ‘Since tuberculosis takes its large toll of adults in the prime of life the total mortality, measured in years of expected life lost, reaches very large proportions, and, even excluding all other aspects, this is a very serious economic loss to this country.

Though the incidence of tuberculosis in Australia has shown a decline in re cent years, and is in fact much less than in older settled countries, the disease remains one that takes a grievous toll in human suffering and distress, and in loss to the nation. The fall in the morbidity and mortality rates of tuberculosis may be related to the general rise in the standard of living, of nutrition and housing. In fact, an eminent doctor has suggested that when every one has enough room in which to live, enough to eat, and proper working conditions the incidence of tuberculosis will diminish to vanishing point.

All governments in Australia are interesting themselves increasingly in the matter of housing. The Commonwealth is concerned also in the raising of nutrition standards, and there is increasing recognition of the need for improvement of factory and workshop conditions. The Commonwealth has recently approved the establishment of a Unit of Industrial Hygiene at the School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine at the University of Sydney. I do suggest, however, and the Government recognizes, that we cannot afford to wait for the fall in mortality and morbidity rates brought about by improvements of living, housing and working conditions. There are still between 30,000 and 40,000 known sufferers from tuberculosis in Australia. There may be many thousands more unsuspected cases. The disease in some forms is highly infectious. Administration cannot, of itself, add one iota to medical knowledge, or suggest new solutions to medical problems, but it can make known solutions effective. Known solutions exist for the problems of tuberculous infection. This Government, and the several State governments, recognize their duty to safeguard and protect the people from the dangers of tuberculous infection. Medical science needs the assistance of governments to apply the measures of knowledge which can overcome tuberculosis in this country.

Commonwealth entry into this field of health legislation is enabled by the amendment of section 51 of the Constitution authorized by the people at the referendum in September, 194.6, which confers power on the Commonwealth to legislate for the provision of medical services.

The hill gives authority to the Commonwealth to take measures for the prevention, treatment and control of tuberculosis, lt gives legislative effect to a campaign for a bold, imaginative attack: on the scourge of tuberculosis, aimed at reducing the disease to negligible proportions in the shortest possible time. The campaign against tuberculosis is planned largely along lines recommended by the Commonwealth Director of the Division of Tuberculosis, after a survey in all States. The plan has been drawn in consultation with all State Ministers of Health, and has been approved by the Premiers in conference at Canberra. The Commonwealth is rightly giving a lead in what is a national problem, to supplement and extend the efforts of the States.

I repeat that the means of dealing with tuberculosis are already thrown. These require, in the first instance, the location of the infectious case, isolation and medical treatment, after carp and rehabilitation. There are, in addition, social implications. Too often patients restored to health by good treatment have been forced, perhaps by lack of opportunity, or because of financial difficulties, to return to the same conditions of living and of working as led to their breakdown in health in the first instance. The plan to be implemented under this measure ensures that after-care and rehabilitation shall be given the fullest consideration. Further, the measure provides for adequate financial assistance to sufferers and their dependants to remove the worry factor which in prolonged illness so often militates against recovery. The campaign against _ tuberculosis authorized by this measure is an example of Commonwealth-State co-operation and collaboration at its best, working on a uniform plan for the positive health of the people. The States will continue to administer, control and utilize their existing organizations and facilities, expanding them to provide adequately for growing needs. The Commonwealth will bear the cost, by reimbursement to the States, of all new approved capital expenditure of the States from the 1st July, 1948, for land and buildings, furnishings, equipment and plant for use in the diagnosis, treatment and control of tuberculosis. Estimates of expenditure in this field alone, approach £500,000 for the current year. The Commonwealth will bear also the whole cost of maintenance expenditure of the State? approved by the Commonwealth in excess of the net maintenance expenditure incurred by the States in diagnosis, treatment and control of tuberculosis in th>financial year 1947-48.

The Commonwealth has established » Division of Tuberculosis in the Department of Health and will assist the State,with medical and technical advice on the highest level to co-ordinate their activities and to shape the policy to be followed in all aspects of the campaign It is recognized that there is need to encourage more people in the medical and nursing professions to undertake training in the treatment and care of patientssuffering from tuberculosis. It- isnecessary also to overcome the fear of the disease which is at present a very real factor in reluctance by some to undertake this work. The Commonwealth will encourage the establishment of thoraci wings attached to teaching hospitals, foi the investigation and treatment of diseases of the chest, including tuberculosis. Medical students and traine,nurses will thus secure training in th early diagnosis of the disease, familiarity with its treatment, - and experience in the care of patients suffering from tuberculosis. In addition, the bill provide.’ that the Commonwealth may pay subsidies to universities or other institution”to promote and assist investigation and research, and to develop courses of training in branches of medical science relating to tuberculosis problems. ThiDirectorGeneral of Health is empowered by the bill, subject to the direction of the Minister, to conduct, assist and provide for research, investigations, experiments, studies and training in relation to the detection and diagnosis of tuberculosis, and the treatment and after-care of sufferers from the disease. He may also arrange for the provision of scholarships for the post-graduate study of tuberculosis.

I have mentioned the social implications of the disease. There is a very real need for measures to educate the public about the means to combat the spread of tuberculosis and the value of early diagnosis and treatment. There is need in this way to destroy the fear of the disease and to overcome the reluctance of some people to undergo radiological examination. A big step towards achieve- ment of these aims can be taken if the sufferer or the suspected sufferer can be assured that he and lis family or dependants will be relieved of financial worry during the period of his treatment and rehabilitation. The Commonwealth has for some years set aside for the States a sum of £250,000 annually for this purpose. It is proposed to continue this assistance and extend it to whatever degree is found to be necessary. Payments will be made to sufferers and their dependants, to encourage sufferers to refrain from working and to undergo treatment, to minimize the spread of the disease and to promote the treatment, after-care and rehabilitation of sufferers, [t is essential that people who suspect that they have tuberculosis should be encouraged by positive measures to overcome their fear of the disease and to seek examination and early treatment, secure in the knowledge that those in their care will be looked after and provided for.

The bill empowers the DirectorGeneral, subject to the direction of the Minister, to provide facilities for the examination of sufferers or suspected sufferers, for the medical care of sufferers, and for their after-care and rehabilitation. The Director-General is also empowered to take steps for the establishment of hospitals, sanatoriums, laboratories, diagnostic centres, after-care, radiological and other units and clinics for the diagnosis, treatment and control of tuberculosis. The bill makes provision for the setting up of an advisory council. This body, which will be representative of both State and Commonwealth interests, will include in its membership experts in the field of tuberculosis throughout the Commonwealth. The functions of this council are set out in the bill. Primarily, the council will advise the Minister on measures to be adopted to prevent and control tuberculosis, on standards of equipment and apparatus, standards of training of personnel, and standards of hospitals and sanatoriums.

It will be noted that, because of doubt as to Commonwealth power, the bill makes no provision for the compulsory radiological or other examination of the public.’ nor does it attempt to make pro vision for the ‘restraint of’ recalcitrant infectious patients, or for the compulsory treatment of persons suffering from tuberculosis. These aspects, however, have not been overlooked, and the State* have asked the Commonwealth to prepare model legislation dealing with these matters for consideration by State governments where provision does not already exist in State law.

The campaign against tuberculosis provides for radiological and bacteriological examination to locate infected and infectious cases; for increased accommodation for sufferers and staff to care for them; for financial assistance to sufferers and their dependants; for after-care and rehabilitation of sufferers: and for research and ‘ development in methods of diagnosis, ‘ treatment and control of tuberculosis. As in the military field, so in this, attack is the best means of defence. The measure:” planned in this campaign are designed, not only to find and treat cases of tuberculosis, but also to safeguard healthy persons from infection, incapacity and death. With full implementation of the techniques of case-finding through radiological and other surveys, this protection will extend throughout the community, safeguarding Australians yet unborn.

Expenditure under the bill will be borne by the National Welfare Fund, established under the National Welfare Fund Act 1943-1945, except that expenditure of a capital nature on buildings, plant, equipment and furnishings, together with administrative costs, will be met from moneys appropriated by the Parliament from time to time.

The mere passing of legislation by this or any other parliament will not achieve a miraculous reduction of the incidence of tuberculosis. However, the campaign upon which we are now embarking can, with ‘the co-operation of the public, the State governments and the medical profession, do much to improve the present position. The bill represents a contribution by the governments of Australia to positive health in the community. I feel sure that honorable members will endorse the Government’s action in initiating these proposals.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Harrison 1 adjourned.

page 1070

QUESTION

ESTIMATES 1948-49

In Committe of Supply: Consideration resumed (vide page 1052).

Prime Minister’s Department

Proposed vote, £2,878,400.

Dame ENID LYONS:
Darwin

– This is a man’s country, and if any one here should doubt the truth of that statement let him look around this chamber at the moment. My sex is represented by two members only. As a matter of fact, we have 100 per cent, attendance at the moment, while the other sex is not so strongly represented, at any rate on the Government side of the chamber. For further proof of the truth of my statement that this is a man’s world, let any one look at the constitution of our municipal councils and business firms. Let him consider our wages system, and, finally, let him look at any crowded tram car. Recently, I heard a woman say that she had had practical proof that the age of chivalry was not dead. “When she fell in attempting to board a tram car, the men behind stepped over her. They courteously refrained from treading on her. However, things are improving. Men no longer entirely dominate the scene, and women no longer accept without question that male notion of the inferiority of women. I am delighted that the Canberra Association of Women Graduates is attempting to remove some of the disabilities under which women labour, as was mentioned by the honorable member for Bourke (Mrs. Blackburn) this afternoon. Some time ago, I was told that women were not eligible for appointment to permanent positions in the Commonwealth Public Service. 1 doubted the truth of this, and wrote for information to the Secretary of the Public Service Board, who replied as follows: -

In reply to your letter of 13th July, 1948, I desire to advise that it is not a fact that women are not eligible for permanent appointment to the Commonwealth Public Service. Their permanent appointment is restricted, however, to the types of positions which are regarded as appropriate to occupancy by females, e.g., Librarian, Dietitian, Welfare Officer, Typist, Machinist, Office Assistant, Telephonist, &c.

Permanent appointments to positions of Clerk and to positions of a professional oi technical nature are restricted to males.

Mr Barnard:

– The honorable member might add post-hole digging to the list. Women are not restricted as regards thai activity.

Dame ENID LYONS:

– No, and 1 could show the Minister for Repatriation ( Mr. Barnard) where women are, in fact, digging post-holes. Indeed, I believe that if the Minister and I were to have a contest at digging post-hole.» 1 would not he a had second. I am anxious to know who decides what appointments are suitable for females, and on what grounds certain of the positions in the list were selected. What is it, for instance, that constitutes the particular adaptability of a female to the office of librarian? Has she any superior ability in the mounting of a step-ladder ? On the other hand, is it, perhaps, that she has a nicer literary discrimination than men have? Just why in the world a female should be regarded as a better librarian than a male, but inferior as a clerk, I cannot understand. Discrimination of this sort against a female v similar to that which, in- the United States of America, is exercised against negroes. I propose to read part of a letter addressed by the women graduate? of Canberra to the Public Service Board seeking the removal of certain anomalies. The letter is divided into four parts, and particular emphasis is laid upon that section which deals with the position of librarians. One paragraph in the letter from the Canberra Association of Women Graduates to the Public Service Board reads -

We consider that the employment of women should be placed on such a basis that their training and education may be utilized to the best advantage and opportunities for advancement opened freely to them.

Under the heading relating to salaries of departmental librarians, the following is stated: -

We understand that the position of departmental librarian is open to women graduate? only. In addition to holding a University degree- and I direct the attention of honorable members particularly to this portion - appointees are recommended to take an approved course in librarianship of six to twelve months’ duration. It appears, therefore, that each candidate for such a position has to undergo a qualifying minimum of three to four years’ professional training. The position of Assistant Librarian (F.), range £9G-£2Q8 (S.), is open to both graduates and non-graduates.

Apparently the assistant librarian may be a person who has had to undergo no particular training at all. The letter continues -

The present salary range of the position >f Librarian is- £238-£3U4 (S.) per annum, with no prospect of advancement beyond the maximum of the range which is only £6 higher than that of Assistant Librarian.

Setting aside the comparison of the two positions, this is in keeping, largely, with the general type of development that is taking place to-day. No recognition of additional skill is granted. It is only fair, at this stage, that I should read the portion of the letter from the Secretary of the Public Service Board, relating to the salary range, which is as follows: -

Salaries of Librarians

In regard to your statement that the margin between the maxima of the salary ranges of the positions of Assistant Librarian and Librarian is only £0, it might be pointed out that this is not quite correct. The difference on standard salaries is only £30, but whereas the occupant of the position of Assistant Librarian is not entitled to payment of “ marginal allowance “, the occupant of a position of Librarian is entitled to such an allowance. The actual difference in salary at the maximum of the two positions is £51 per annum as shown hereunder: -

After setting out the table, the letter continued -

The Board has noted your statement of the rates paid to Librarians employed by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research and the Parliament, but could not agree that because these rates are paid by these bodies, Public Service rates should be increased correspondingly. Bates in the Public Service must, of necessity, be fitted into the whole structure of Public Service clasifications, and the board can see no reason for their variation as proposed by your Association.

The letter then deals with the entry of women into” the Third Division of the Public Service, which is the clerical division, as I understand it.

I shall now read another extract from the women graduates’ letter, from which honorable members will gain a little more detail in regard to the position of women, that will give them food for thought -

There appears to be no reason under the Public Service Act why girls as well as boys should not be permitted to take the competi tive examination for entry into the Third Division. We draw attention to a statement ou page 13 of the 23rd Annual Report of the Commonwealth Public Service (1048) that “ the number of lads seeking employment in the Third as well as the Fourth Division falls very much below the needs of the Departments, resulting in unbalanced staff establishments While we do not suggest that the difficulties of finding junior staff to “ do the simpler and more routine tasks of the Third and Fourth Division “ would be solved by the recruitment of women, we do urge that girls be permitted to sit for the examination for entry to the Third Division if they so desire, and be appointed on a competitive basis to such vacancies as occur annually, and that women seeking entry to the Public Service under section 30a as graduates should not be debarred from permanent appointment by reason of .sex.

The position in Great Britain is then mentioned. I remind the House that the British Civil Service is regarded as one of the finest in the whole world. That service has a tradition that is beyond reproach, and women have been appointed to most exalted positions in it. The table shows that, in the administrative section of the British Civil Service there are 3,718 men and 567 women. The corresponding section of the Commonwealth Public Service is completely closed to women. In Great Britain there are women heads of departments which make the departments here look completely puny and relatively unimportant. In the executive section of the British Civil Service there are 40,030 men, and 10,273 women. By contrast with the large proportion of women in the British Civil Service, of 14,079 permanent employees in the Third Division of the Commonwealth Public Service at the 30th June, 1947, only 65 were women. The letter continues -

We strongly urge, therefore, that women be encouraged to seek entry to the Third Division.

The reply from the Secretary of the Public Service Board to that very convincing statement by the women graduates reads -

In some special cases women may be employed in Third Division positions of a professional or clerical nature. This occurs when the positions concerned are of a type which may be lulled by women more appropriately than nien, as, for instance, Librarians. Generally, however, females- not “ women “ this time - are not employed in administrative, professional or clerical, positions.

Those- officers who are. employed in clerical or professional positions may advance by way nf promotion to the highest administrative positions in the Service, and, in fact, the source of recruitment of senior administrative officers is from those officers who have filled clerical or professional positions. In these cases, therefore, continuity of experience in the Public Service is regarded as essential, and for this reason the employment of females in clerical or professional positions is regarded as undesirable. The Commonwealth Public Service Act forbids the employment of married women unless in a particular case there are special circumstances which would, from the point of view of the Service, warrant employment of a married woman. The predominant marrying age of women in Australia is twenty-four years and in view of this, and the embargo on the employment of married women, it is obvious that there would, of necessity, bc a fairly large turnover of officers in clerical and professional positions if females were freely employed in such positions. As stated above, continuity of service in these positionsis desirable, and this could not be obtained if women were employed therein.

Honorable members may be interested to hear that six members of the library staffs are about to marry, and that is causing considerable commotion among the staffs concerned.

The third point raised- concerns the temporary employment of women in permanent positions. The women graduates, in their letter, said -

Some of our members have complained that they have been given temporary employment in permanent positions for which they have applied, no reason, except that of sex, being advanced for such/ action. We feel that this policy is not in the best interests of women, particularly graduates. Although we recognize that there are possibly good reasons for making temporary appointments (both male and female) to permanent positions and that in cases, for example, of inability to satisfy standards of health demanded, it is desirable to oiler temporary employment, we recommend that if a woman applicant for a permanent position is considered to satisfy educational, medical and other requirements of the position, she .should be appointed permanently after serving a satisfactory probationary period.

The board replied to that as follows : -

Referring to your representations regarding the temporary employment of women in permanent positions, it might he pointed out that it is not always possible to obtain, immediately, the services of a suitably qualified male. In such circumstances, a female may be employed temporarily in the position’ until the services of a suitable male can be secured but for the reasons stated above, the Board could not agree to the permanent appointment of women to positions of this nature.

With regard to the final point, th, employment of married women, the honorable member for Bourke hasmentioned that in New South Wales and Great Britain the disqualification of a woman for service on the ground of marriage has already been removed. Bui on this point the Public Service Board says -

Apart from other considerations, it is noi considered that Australian conditions are such that the employment of married women won l(i be advisable from a. social viewpoint.

– I shall do so. The Minister for Labour and National Service criticized some observations which I directed to the Minister for Defence after he had reflected on my personal integrity. The Minister for Defence knows that I have repeatedly refuted that allegation by personal explanation in this chamber, but because he was stumped for an answer and was losing the argument, he repeated it. I told him that he was lying, and the Minister for Labour and National Service has taken rue to task for making that statement in my own defence. I propose to show precisely how the Minister for Defence has gained his reputation. When I commenced this debate this afternoon, I directed the attention of the Minister to reports that the United States of America was reluctant to make available to Australia information dealing with atomic and other high defence matters, because of a fear that there would be a leakage to Russia through Australian

Communists. I remarked that I had noticed that, in the Estimates, provision had been made for nuclear investigation, and I expressed the opinion that the facts called for an explanation as to how far the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research was involved in atomic investigation and high defence secrets. ] considered that the Minister should make that explanation so that the Parliament should know the facts. The Minister replied that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research was not concerned with secret defence measures. But the Minister for Labour and National Service has told us that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research is concerned with defence secrets. I suggest that both Ministers should get together and clarify their minds about the position. Either the Minister for Defence is right or the Minister for Labour and National Service is right, but both of them cannot be right. Immediately 1 resumed my seat, the Minister for Defence rose with a display of righteous indignation, and told me that the report that the United States of America had refused to permit atomic information to be made available to Australia was false. He then engaged in a lengthy dissertation to prove that the report was partypolitical propaganda, in which the press and the Opposition had indulged. Indeed, he said that the press and the Opposition had combined in this way to do a great disservice to Australia. When the Minister resumed his seat, the Leader of the Australian Country party asked him to confirm or deny a few matters. First, he sought some information about persons who were present at a meeting at Downing-street, London, on the 8th July at 11.30 a.m. He failed to draw attention to the fact that the British Prime Minister, Mr. Attlee, was in the chair, and that the Australian Prime Minister, Mr. Chifley, was in attendance. Others present were Mr. Herbert Morrison, Lord President of the Council; Sir Stafford Cripps, Chancellor of the Exchequer; Mr. J. H. Wilson, President of the Board of Trade; Mr. P. J. NoelBaker, Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations; Mr. John Strachey. Minister for Food; Mr. Ernest Bevin, Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs:

Viscount Addison, Lord Privy Seal; Dr. Hugh Dalton, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster; and G. R. Strauss, Minister of Supply. Officers of the Secretariat who were present were Sir Norman Brook, Mr. S. E. V. Luke, Mr. R. J. P. Hewison and Mr. N. E. Costar. I shall read one extract from that document to prove how the Minister for Defence sought to mislead this chamber and the country when he said that the American authorities were not reluctant to communicate to Australia certain secret information on atomic energy. Facts are facts, and if this statement is not correct, let the Prime Minister deny it. The extract reads as follows: -

Mr. Attlee asked whether there were any specific questions which Mr. Chifley would like to discuss with Ministers generally or individually during the course of his stay in this country, and Mr. Chifley stated there were four other points that he would like to take up. He understood that the United States authorities were reluctant to communicate to Australia certain special secret information about the progress of research and development of atomic energy.

The Prime Minister is in a position to say whether or not that is a correct record. If it is correct, then the Minister for Defence deliberately attempted to mislead the committee by the statement that he made.

Mr Thompson:

– The honorable member should be careful that he does not sell the country with his statements.

Mr HARRISON:

– Honorable members on this side of the chamber have said something about Rudkin, who was employed in the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, even though he had been convicted for selling information. We know that Mountjoy, whose brother is a Communist, was appointed to the executive of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. We know that Makinson, a senior lecturer in physics at Sydney University, who was formerly employed by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, is now the chairman of the scientific body of the Communist party. Who is selling this country? It is certainly not the Opposition. If the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Thompson) wants to indulge in an argument about who is selling the country, honorable members on this side of the chamber will be’ happy to accommodate him. His interjection,, however, was merely designed to prevent, me from continuing with what I wished to say. The extract continues -

Mr. Chifley stated that he was most anxious to remove any impediments to the free exchange of secret information about atomicenergy developments between the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia, and he was prepared to make any reasonable adjustments which might be necessary for this purpose in the constitution of the scientific organizations serving the Australian Government in this matter.

Mr CHIFLEY:

– Speaking in all sincerity, I say that I never imagined that statements of the nature of those made to-day could be made in this Parliament in a debate of this kind. There is not the slightest evidence anywhere that anybody associated with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research or any officer of the Government, has divulged any secrets whatsoever. In saying so, I am confining myself to the attack that has been made here to-day, upon that particular body. Honorable members opposite may say that the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research has grown up in a loose fashion so far as its administration is concerned. I remind them that that body was not established for the purpose of dealing with defence research. It was established to conduct experiments in connexion with civil production and economy. It was not established by this Government, and it did grow up in a rather loose manner. It has been enlarged in recent years and now has about 5,000 employees. It is possible that from time to time this Government, or some other government, may find it necessary to review the form of that body’s administration. Some years before I became Prime Minister I considered that aspect, and as the result of my consideration the employees of the Repatriation Commission were placed under the control of the Public Service Board. Possibly, the employees of some other government instrumentalities should also be brought under the control of the Public Service Board. Be that as it may, I desire to emphasize the magnificent work done for this country by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research. Although I feel sure that the economic and political views of the chairman of that council, Sir David Rivett, would not coincide with mine, I should be doing him an injustice if I did not point out thatno servant of the Commonwealth is held in higher respect or is more trusted than he is. Furthermore, I am convinced that no one is more loyal to Australia, or is more conscious of his country’s interests, than is Sir David. I know that he would not do anything to the detriment of the country’s interest or its security.

To revert to the subject of national security, although I do not propose to reveal details of the precautions being taken, because it is not customary for responsible members of the government of any country to discuss such matters in public, I can assure honorable members that I have given the closest attention to this matter. Although the Government has taken energetic action, I am not going to shout out-

Mr Abbott:

– We want to know that the Government is doing something.

Mr CHIFLEY:

– I assure honorable members - and not for the purpose of stifling criticism - that I have received advice and taken such action as is necessary to remove any cause for concern. If there is the slightest evidence that more drastic measures should be taken to safeguard our security, that more competent or highly trained officers should be engaged on security, or that action should be taken of a kind different from that taken hitherto, the Government will not hesitate. In conclusion, I say to honorable members opposite that I believe that supporters of the Government have just as much love for their country, and are just as anxious for its security as are members of the Opposition.

Motion (by Mr. Dedman) put -

That progress be reported.

The committee divided. (The Temporary Chairman - Mr. J. W. Hadley.)

AYES: 31

NOES: 18

Majority 13

AYES

NOES

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Progress reported.

page 1084

ADJOURNMENT

Parliamentary Proceedings Broadcasting Committee

Motion (by Mr. Holloway) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Naval Defence Act - Regulations - Statutory Rules 1948, No. 116.

Defence (Transitional Provisions) Act -

National Security (Industrial Property) Regulations -

Orders - Inventions and designs ( 12 ) .

House adjourned at 10.59 p.m.

page 1084

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Virus Diseases: Use of Chloromycetin

Mr Hutchinson:

n asked the Minister representing the Minister for Health,. upon notice -

How many deaths from influenza occurred in Australia during the last five years?
Has the drug Chloromycetin been used in. Australia for experimental purposes or otherwise?
How many deaths have been caused by the influenza virus over the last twelvemonths ?

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The Minister for Health has supplied the following information : -

The number of deaths from influenza which occurred in Australia was - 1942, 556; 1943, 441; 1944, 180; 1945, 162; 1946, 211; 1947, to 30th June, 1947, 57. No later figures are available.
The drug Chloromycetin has not yet been used in Australia. However, the Government recently sent to Malaya a senior medical officer of the Health Department from the staff of the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories to investigate the experimental use of this drug in the treatment of typhus.
See answer to. No.1 above.

Royal Commission on the Press.

Mr Falstein:
WATSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

n asked the Minister for Information, upon notice -

Is it a fact that the royal commission on the press, being conducted in the United Kingdom and not yet concluded, has had evidence placed before it, inter alia, on the following matters: - (a) Directives to editors, (b) blacklists, (c) inaccuracies and distortions, (d) deliberately misleading stories, (e) irresponsibility producing contradictions, (f) exaggeration causing public distress, (g) splashing, (h) sensationalism, (i) the influence of advertisers, (j) the employment of rewrite men, and (k) the right of reply to defamatory statements and the compulsion of apologies?
Is it a fact that these are characteristics peculiarly identifiable in the Australian press?
If these are facts, will he cause questionnaires, similar to those sent out by the royal commission, to be circulated to the publishers of newspapers and periodicals, to all trade unions covering the industry, and to newsagencies and other news sources?
If so, will he have the replies tabulated and printed for the information of honorable members ?

Mr Calwell:
ALP

– I have been following the proceedings of the royal commission on the press in the United Kingdom with close interest and shall, at a later stage, consider making certain recommendations to Cabinet with relation to the conduct and- ethical standards of the Australian press.

Department of Information

Mr Spender:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES

r asked the Minister for Information, upon notice -

Is it a fact that Mr. K. P. Murphy was recently appointed Director-General of Information ?
On what newspaper or newspapers was Mr. Murphy previously employed, and in what capacities?
Is Mr. Murphy a permanent public servant?
What is his present salary and/or allowances ?
How many journalists are at present employed in the Canberra office of the Department of Information ?
How many receive a salary in excess of £600 a year?
What are (a) their names, (b) duties and (c) present salaries and/or allowances?
How many officers are employed by the department in each State?
What is the nature of the work upon which journalists employed by the department are at present engaged?

Mr Calwell:
ALP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

Yes.
The Herald, Melbourne, as reporter special writer, sub-editor.
Yes.
One thousand, eight hundred poundsa year.
Seventeen.
Seventeen.

7.-

Total staff of the department, including clerks, typists,- messenger;, &c, is - Australian Capital Territory, 57 (including journalists listed above) ; New South Wales, 74; Victoria, 152.
The journalists in the Department of Information are employed gathering and writing news and information about this country for dissemination from the 32 points overseas at which Australia is represented. Such news and information is issued - (o) to attract and inform migrants and would-be migrants; (6) to encourage and promote trade and investment; (o) to foster overseas understanding of Australia and goodwill towards her. Their tasks include preparation of material for Radio Australia, the short-wave division of the department, and for the Film Division in Sydney. They issue seventeen periodica] newsletters for overseas on specialized subjects such as agriculture, tourist activities, sport, women’s interests, the arts in Australia, and so on. They prepare and arrange all the material for two quarterly and two monthly printed and illustrated publications, and carry out the research for and writing of at least 60 full-length, illustrated magazine articles each month. They constantly revise and bring up to date major publications on Australia, and have just completed six separate editions - one for each State - of a book called A Handbook for Hie New Australian. They are expected constantly to plan and carry out as many journalistic, educational, film, booklet and radio activities as their numbers and available finances will allow in the interests of Australia overseas. They also spend much time attending to special requests from overseas for information and for articles for specific magazines, and are thus fully engaged on journalistic, educational and public relations work on so high a level that none but experienced and highly competent men could handle it.

Royal Australian Navy: Personnel

Mr White:

e asked the Minister for the Navy, upon notice -

What were the respective numbers of (a) uniformed and (b) civil personnel on the 1st Inly, 1939?
What were the respective numbers on the 1st April, 1945, and the 1st July, 1948?

Mr Riordan:
Minister for the Navy · KENNEDY, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– The numbers of naval personnel and civil personnel, respectively, as at the dates quoted, were as follows : -

Hearing Aids

Mrs Blackburn:

n asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What was the amount of customs duties collected on account of hearing aids imported from the United States of America during the years 1944-45, 1945-46, 1940-47 and 1947-48!
What was the total amount of customs duties collected on hearing aid batteries im ported from (a) Great Britain, and (b) the United States, during each of the same four years ?
What was the total value of hearing aidsimported from (») Great Britain, and (b) the United States, during each of the same years?

Mr Pollard:
ALP

– The Minister for Trade and Customs has supplied the following information : -

Details of the imports of hearing aid* were not recorded separately prior to the financial year 1947-48, and the information requested by the honorable member is noi available except for the year 1947-48. Thu desired information for that year is a* follows: - (o) Customs duty collected on imports of hearing aids of United States origin amounted to £16.779. (b) The value of hearing aids imported was - (i) from the United Kingdom, £A.08,531 ; (ii) from the United States of America, £A.95,613.
Separate records arc not maintained of the imports of batteries for hearing aids and therefore the information desired is not available.
See answer to No. I.

Mr Pollard:
ALP

d. - On the 16th September, the honorable member for Bourke (Mrs. Blackburn) asked whether consideration had been given to requests from the Australian Association for Better Hearing regarding the abolition of customs dutson all hearing aids and the batteries required to operate them, the allocation of sufficient dollars to ensure the necessary quantity and quality of such hearing aids, and the removal of any prohibition on the importation of suitable ingredient? for batteries for these purposes. The Minister for Trade and Customs has now advised as follows : -

The matter raised by the association hu>> been considered, but as electric hearing aids of United Kingdom manufacture, which are free nf customs duty, are available to the Australian market, it is not possible under Australia’* commitments with the United Kingdom to remove the duty of 174 per cent, ad valorem applicable to similar hearing aids imported from the United States of America. The position in..regard..to. dry.Jiatteries.iB._at present being examined, and if the Minister is satisfied, as a result of the inquiries being made, that the locally manufactured batteries, are not of satisfactory quality, consideration would be given to the. admission at concessional rates of duty of these goods or of any type of batteries of a class or kind not commercially manufactured in Australia, The allocation of dollars which has been made for the first two quarters nf the current financial year would enable importers to provide essential replacement parts (which would include batteries) and a number of’ new instruments for use by persons whose requirements could not be met adequately by a hearing aid of United Kingdom origin. The allocation of dollars was approved by the Government after sympathetic consideration bad been given to needs of the members of the community whose hearing is impaired and was in consequence relatively substantial. There is no prohibition upon the importation of essential materials or components for use in the manufacture of batteries for hearing aids. Licences have been issued for the importation from dollar areas of certain mercury type batteries owing to the inferiority of similar types of batteries from easier currency sources.

Prices Branch.

Mr Chifley:
ALP

y. - On the 29th September the honorable the Acting Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Harrison) asked me the reasons for the gazettal of twenty new positions in the Prices Branch on 9th September, 1948. The Chairman of the Public Service Board has informed me as follows: -

Twenty positions were created by the Public Service Board in the Prices Branch gazetted on 9th September, 1948. The reason was to provide an avenue of promotion for a limited group of permanent officers who have been on temporary transfer to the price administration for a considerable period, and have missed opportunities of promotion which would otherwise have been available to them in their own or other departments. The classifications have been fixed by the Public Service Board on a basis which will readily permit the absorption if the officers in the Department of Trade and Customs and other departments.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 30 September 1948, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1948/19480930_reps_18_198/>.

View PDF View XML View in Voyant

House of Representatives30 September 1948

QUESTION

ELECTORAL

Dame ENID LYONS:DARWIN, TASMANIA

Mr JOHNSON:Minister for the Interior · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

ME. G. J. BOWDEN, M.P

Mr CONELAN:GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr CALWELL:Minister for Immigration · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

QUESTION

POULTRY

Mr BERNARD CORSER:WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

Mr CHIFLEY:Prime Minister · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

MILITIA

Mr FULLER:HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CHAMBERS:Minister for the Army · ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

CIVIL AVIATION

Mr DRAKEFORD:Minister for Air · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP

QUESTION

APPRENTICES

Mr O’CONNOR:WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HOLLOWAY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

QUESTION

DOLLAR DEFICITS

Mr ABBOTT:NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Mr ABBOTT:

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Mr ABBOTT:

Mr CHIFLEY:ALP

Mr Abbott:

Mr CHIFLEY:

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr HOLLOWAY:Minister for Labour and National Service · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

QUESTION

PETROL RATIONING

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:Postmaster-General · BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CHIFLEY:ALP

QUESTION

SOCIAL SERVICES

Mr LANG:REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HOLLOWAY:ALP

QUESTION

FEDERATED IRONWORKERS ASSOCIATION

Mr FADDEN:DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr CALWELL:ALP

QUESTION

OVERSEAS INVESTMENTS IN AUSTRALIA

Mr FRASER:EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr DEDMAN:Minister for Defence · CORIO, VICTORIA · ALP

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Mr WHITE:BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

Mr DRAKEFORD:ALP

QUESTION

SNOWY RIVER SCHEME

Mr LANGTRY:RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr LEMMON:Minister for Works and Housing · FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY

Mr BLAIN:NORTHERN TERRITORY

Mr POLLARD:Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · BALLAARAT, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr BLAIN:

Mr CHIFLEY:ALP

QUESTION

PETROL

Mr TURNBULL:WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

Mr TURNBULL:

Mr CHIFLEY:ALP

QUESTION

COMMUNISM

Mr HAMILTON:SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr CALWELL:ALP

Mr Hamilton:

Mr CALWELL:

QUESTION

TUBERCULOSIS

Mr FALKINDER:FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

Mr HOLLOWAY:ALP

House of Representatives
30 September 1948

Dame ENID LYONS:
DARWIN, TASMANIA

Mr JOHNSON:
Minister for the Interior · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr CALWELL:
Minister for Immigration · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr BERNARD CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND

Mr CHIFLEY:
Prime Minister · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr FULLER:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CHAMBERS:
Minister for the Army · ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr DRAKEFORD:
Minister for Air · MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr O’CONNOR:
WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HOLLOWAY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · FLP; ALP from 1936

Mr ABBOTT:
NEW ENGLAND, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr HOLLOWAY:
Minister for Labour and National Service · MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr ARCHIE CAMERON:
Postmaster-General · BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr LANG:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HOLLOWAY:
ALP

Mr FADDEN:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND

Mr CALWELL:
ALP

Mr FRASER:
EDEN-MONARO, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Defence · CORIO, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr WHITE:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA

Mr DRAKEFORD:
ALP

Mr LANGTRY:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr LEMMON:
Minister for Works and Housing · FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr BLAIN:
NORTHERN TERRITORY

Mr POLLARD:
Minister for Commerce and Agriculture · BALLAARAT, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr TURNBULL:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr HAMILTON:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr CALWELL:
ALP

Mr FALKINDER:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

Mr HOLLOWAY:
ALP

Mr JOHNSON:
ALP

Mr BOWDEN:
GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr RYAN:
FLINDERS, VICTORIA

Mr CHIFLEY:
ALP

Mr HARRISON:
Acting Leader of the Opposition · Wentworth

Mr DEDMAN:
Minister for Defence, Minister for Post-war Reconstruction and Minister in charge of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research · Corio · ALP

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Sheehan:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

Mr HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944