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House of Representatives
5 June 1939

15^th Parliament · 1^st Session

WILMOTELECTORAL DIVISION
QUESTION
- FLYING BOAT GUBA
QUESTION
- NEW ZEALAND POTATOES
QUESTION
- WATERSIDE WORKERS
QUESTION
- DUTIES ON IRON AND STEEL
QUESTION
- TELEPHONE COMM UNIC ATION WITH TASMANIA
QUESTION
- MILITIA FORCES
QUESTION
- EXPORT OF APPLES
QUESTION
- UNEMPLOYMENT
QUESTION
- NEW BROADCASTING STATION
QUESTION
- WHEAT INDUSTRY
QUESTION
- WHEAT INDUSTRY
QUESTION
- AUDITOR-GENERAL’S REPORT
QUESTION
- DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT
QUESTION
- SYDNEY GENERAL POST OFFICE
QUESTION
- ACCOMMODATION IN CHAMBER
QUESTION
- INTERSTATE TELEGRAM RATES
QUESTION
- DUNTROON MILITARY COLLEGE
QUESTION
- BURNS, PHILP AND COMPANY LIMITED
QUESTION
- IMPORTATION OF HATS. -
QUESTION
- INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS
QUESTION
- WORK FOR SKILLED ARTISANS
QUESTION
- TOWNSVILLE AERODROME
RELIEF MEASURES IN NEW SOUTH WALES
AUSTRALIAN SUBMAKINES
QUESTION
- SYDNEY TO BRISBANE AIR SERVICE
QUESTION
- INDIAN OCEAN SURVEY
QUESTION
- RATIO OF EMPLOYMENT’ TO “ IMPORTS
QUESTION
- MOTOR CAR ENGINES
THE LATE MR. F. M. J. BAKER
DEFENCE BILL 1939
NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939
FLYING BOAT GUBA
NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939
- Second Reading
QUESTION
- FLYING BOAT GUBA
NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939
- Second Reading
HOUR OF MEETING
ADJOURNMENT
- Yes
- Yes
- Yes
PAPERS
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
- Sydney General Post Office
- Interstate Freight Transport
- Defence: Transportation of Troops
- Liquid Fuels
- Postmaster-General
- Amalgamated Wireless .(Australasia) Limited : Salary and Expenses of Sir Ernest Fisk
- Dairying Industry
- Interstate Telegram Rates
- Farmers’ Debt Adjustment

Mr. Speaker (Hon. G. J. Bell) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1171

WILMOTELECTORAL DIVISION

Notification from Chief Electoral Officer.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have to announce that I have receiveda notification from theChief Electoral Officer for the

Commonwealth in connexion with the writ which I issued on the 3rd Maylast for the election of a member to serve” for the electoral division of Wilmot, in the State of Tasmania, to fill the vacancy caused by the death of the Bight Honorable. Joseph Aloysius Lyons, and that, by the notification, it is certified that Lancelot Thomas Spurr has been elected in pursuance of the said writ.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, may I inquire as to whether you have received a return to the writ which you issued, or onlya notification of the result of theby-election?

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have received a certificate in the terms that I have mentioned.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– May I again, on a . point of order, inquire as to whether the admission to ‘this House of a member elected at a by-election is lawful on a mere notification by the returning officer, or whether the actual return to the writ is necessary?

Mr SPEAKER:

– The writ has not actually been returned to me. Because I was informed that Mr. Spurr had been elected, I inquired of the Chief Electoral Officer as to whether or not he could tell me of its whereabouts. The certificate that I have received is the result of that inquiry. Action similar to this has been taken on more than one occasion previously.

Mr. Spurr made and subscribed the oath of allegiance.

page 1171

QUESTION

FLYING BOAT GUBA

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– In view of the wireless news that the flyingboat Guba, while on a survey of the Indian Ocean, has missed Cocos Island and has set a course for Batavia, will the Prime Minister inform the House as to what official news has been received by the Government, and as to whether the flying boat has a sufficient supply of petrol to enable it to reach Batavia ?

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · UAP

– Messages were received this morning, in the first instance from Cocos Island by cable, indicating that the authorities there were in wireless touch with the Guba but that, on ‘account of the inability of the flying boat to obtain a cross bearing to any vessel in the neighbourhood, it had experienced considerable difficulty at that stage in locating Cocos Island with a view to making a landing there. Subsequent reports indicated that the Guba was cruising in the neighbourhood, but was unable to locate Cocos Island. At about lunchtime I received a message from Mr. Percival, on the Guba, indicating that they had. decided to proceed east in the direction of Batavia. Just as I entered the House this afternoon I was handed a further message which had just been received from the Guba, stating that it is now flying on a course towards Soenda Strait, between Java and Sumatra, in conditions which, at the . position of the aircraft, were overcast, with considerable haze. This procedure is in accordance with the decision to proceed to Batavia rather than to use surplus fuel in an endeavour to reach Cocos Island, under existing conditions. I may saythat the tone and terms of that message, like those of the message previously received from the Guba, do not indicate that any gravedoubt was felt regarding its ability to reach Batavia, and it would appear to have been assumed that the condition of the fuel supplies was satisfactory for the purpose. I can only say that we all sincerely hope that this is so.

When the matter first came before me, and thereappeared to be some real doubt of the Gubabeing able to make a safe landing at Batavia, having regard to the condition of its fuel supplies, I immediately had a communication sent to. the British Government representative’ at Batavia, requesting that arrangementsbe made at once with the Government authorities there to send out a ship, if necessary, in the direction in which the Guba was travelling. I think it proper to assure ‘honorable members that no delay was permitted to occur in taking such steps as mightbe necessary. I, of course, hope that they will prove to be unnecessary.

page 1172

QUESTION

NEW ZEALAND POTATOES

Embargo on Importation.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
WANNON, VICTORIA

– I ask the Ministerrepresenting the Minister for Commerce whether or not the report is cor rect which appeared in a Sydney newspaper since the last day of sitting, indicating that the Government proposed to remove the embargo on the importation of New Zealand potatoes?

Sir FREDERICK STEWART.The Prime Minister made a few days ago a statement in regard to the whole position. The right honorable gentleman then informed honorable members that the partial suspension of the embargo had now terminated, but that the whole matter is receiving consideration, and that in that consideration due regard isbeing paid to the interests of the potato-growers and consumers, the citrus-growers and consumers, and all others who are interested in the matter.

page 1172

QUESTION

WATERSIDE WORKERS

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– The

Prime Minister, as Attorney-General in the Lyons Administration, commenced investigations into the conditions of the waterside workers in the differentports of the Commonwealth. I understand th at the present Attorney-General has continued those investigations, and I ask him whether they have been completed. If they have, has he received the report of the investigator? If he has, will he make itavailable to honorable members prior to the rising of the House at the end of this week?

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I assume that the honorable member refers to a report in relation to Queensland ports.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– It is an Australian investigation, but I am more concerned about Queensland.

Mr HUGHES:

– A distinction has to be drawn. A report is being furnished by my colleague, the Minister for Trade and Customs, in regard to ports from Adelaide to Sydney. Senator Allan MacDonald was asked to visit the ports from Cairns down to Brisbane. He has done that. He has presented his report, andI shallbe glad to let the honorable member have a copy of it. The matter is receiving the consideration of the Government, and. I hope the honorable -member will let me. have his opinion of the report after hehas read it.

Mr LAZZARINI:
WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Does the report mentioned by the Attorney-General cover the conditions of waterside workers at Port Kembla? If so, will he let me have a copy of that report?

Mr HUGHES:

– At my request, Senator MacDonald included port Kembla in his investigation, and he has made a special report on conditions existing at that port. I shall be glad to show that report to the honorable member, along with the general report covering conditions in Queensland ports.

Supply of Uniforms

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

– Last week, I asked the Minister for Defence how many new uniforms had been issued to members of the militia forces in each of the States during May. Is he yet in a position to supply this information?

Mr STREET:
Minister for Defence · CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA · UAP

– I regret that I cannot give a detailed reply without communicating with every militia unit throughout the Commonwealth. That is not possible, but I hope,- by to-morrow afternoon, to be able to state the number of uniforms supplied by ordnance to each depot.

Sir CHARLES MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Minister seen reports published in the Sydney newspapers that, in the first cavalry and divisional signals unit due to go into camp, 75 per cent. of the men were without uniforms? It was also stated in the report, that a considerable number of resignations had been received by officers commanding those units, because of the lack of uniforms and other equipment?

Mr STREET:

– I have not seen- the report. I again direct attention to the memorandum which I circulated to honorable members recently regarding clothing for the military forces. In that communication, emphasis was laid on the fact that normally a recruit does not get a uniform until he has been in the force for three months. In accordance with a decision made in February, it was decided to issue uniforms as quickly as possible. I have nothing to add to the circulated statement, which sets out the position very fully. I know nothing about the alleged retirements.

Sir CHARLES MARR:

– In view of the fact that it is not usual to issue military clothing to recruits until they have been in the forces for three months, will the Minister for Defence consider the issuing of warmer clothing to men going into camp during tho present cold season other than the ordinary dungaree suits which are conducive to the contraction of pneumonia. It is a fact that recently, when the 4th Battalion in New South Wales was sent into camp without uniforms, citizens of Burwood contributed funds with which uniforms for this battalion were purchased, and that sales tax was charged on those uniforms?

Mr STREET:

– The answer to the first part of the honorable member’s question is, “ Yes “. I have no information concerning the second part of his question, but shall be glad to obtain from him any particulars regarding the matter which he may have in his possession.

page 1174

QUESTION

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Validity of Legislation

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA

– Oan the Prime Minister say whether the judgment of the High Court in the case affecting the validity of the legislation imposing a sales tax on flour will be delivered before Parliament goes into recess? What does he propose to do if the judgment is not delivered until after Parliament adjourns, and the judgment has the effect of invalidating the legislation?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I hope that the judgment will be delivered this week. If it is not, then one’3 ideas about the sitting of Parliament will need to be re-cast, because I attach great importance to being in a position to take prompt action should that judgment make parliamentary action necessary.

page 1175

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– In connexion with a question asked without notice on Friday last by the honorable member for Gwydir (Mr. Scully), and supported by interjection by the honorable members for Swan (Mr. Gregory) and Forrest (Mr. Prowse), I desire to intimate that representatives of the Australian Wheatgrowers Federation will meet the Minister for Commerce and myself in Canberra on Friday next, the 9th June, for the purpose of submitting representations in relation to the position of the wheat industry.

page 1175

QUESTION

AUDITOR-GENERAL’S REPORT

Mr JOLLY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

– I ask the Prime Minister whether it would be possible to make available to honorable members, before the close of the budget debate this year, the Auditor-General’s report on the preceding financial year? It was not until early this year that honorable members received the Auditor-General’s report on the accounts for the financial year which closed in June of the preceding year.

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I cannot positively say that that will be done, but I agree with the honorable member that it is most desirable that that report should be in the hands of honorable members during the budget debate, if that is feasible. I shall make inquiries to see whether it can bo done.

page 1175

QUESTION

DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA

– A report appearing in to-day’s press indicates that the headquarters of the now Department of

Supply and Development will be established in Melbourne. I ask the Prime Minister whether this report is correct? If so, is there any valid reason why the head-quarters of this department cannot be established in Canberra ?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– In the absence of my colleague, the Minister for Supply and Development, I can answer the honorable member’s question only in general terms, but I understand that the Supply Department will be established in Melbourne for the reason that the Department of Defence is also in that city, and it would not he possible, having regard to the close interlocking arrangements between these two departments, to have one in one city and one. in another city. That would lead to great inefficiency of administration.

Mr Holloway:

– When will those departments be established in Canberra?

Mr MENZIES:

– That question is bound up with the problem of financing quite large buildings for administrative purposes in Canberra, and of providing dwellings for members of the staffs to be transferred. That problem, in conjunction with the general problem of office accommodation, is at present under the consideration of the Cabinet.

page 1175

QUESTION

SYDNEY GENERAL POST OFFICE

Chairman of Royal Commission

Mr FORDE:

– Is the Prime Minister yet in a position to announce the name of the judge to be appointed as chairman of the Royal Commission to inquire into the Sydney General Post Office contract?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– I regret that at the moment I am not able to make such an announcement, but as soon as I ca.n do so I shall convey the information to Parliament.

page 1175

QUESTION

ACCOMMODATION IN CHAMBER

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Will the Prime Minister obtain from the Government Statistician information to show whether or not it is a fact that as imports into Australia increase, so employment increases, and vice versa?

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

– If the information’ is fairly readily available I shall sec that it is obtained, and forwarded to the honorable member.

page 1178

QUESTION

MOTOR CAR ENGINES

Manufacture in Australia.

Mr FORDE:

– Will the Minister for Trade and Customs give an assurance to the House that a statement will be made this week setting out what definite action has been taken ‘by the Government in furtherance of the proposal to manufacture motor car engines in Australia? Will he say how many proposals have been received, and whether it is expected that tin early start will be made with this industry?

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Negotiations in respect of a venture of this kind must necessarily be fairly protracted. I do not think that it will be possible for me to make this week any addition to the clear statement made by the Prime Minister about a fortnight ago.

page 1178

THE LATE MR. F. M. J. BAKER

Mr SPEAKER:

– I have received from Mrs. F. M. J. Baker a letter thanking the House for its resolution of sympathy on the occasion of the death of her husband.

page 1178

DEFENCE BILL 1939

Motion, (by Mr. Street) agreed to -

That lie have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend the Defence Act 1903-11)34, and for other purposes.

page 1178

NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939

S eco n d R-e a din 13 .

Debute resumed from the 2nd .June (vide, page 1.165) on motion by Mr. Street -

That the bill lie now road a second t i mu.

Mr NAIRN:

– No, the Leader of the Opposition is not a man of that type. Probably he will be more ill when he tries to explain his words. It only shows that the Labour party has no settled policy on defence except one that hinders.

– They have proved it over and over again. Any man who opposed conscription for service in Australia would be harshly dealt with. The only respect in which the bill is unsatisfactory is that the proposed census does not go quite far enough iri that no provision is made for taking a. census of wealth.

Mr.- GANDER - “Would the honorable member support that?

Mr NAIRN:

– I propose to move an amendment to that effect later.

Mr Scholfield:

– That will not be acceptable to some honorable members opposite.

Mr NAIRN:

– A census of our resources would be incomplete without a. record of our monetary resources. We should know where the money lies. Later, I propose to move an amendment to provide that a census of the wealth resources of the country be taken, to which there should not be any objection, particularly as a census is being taken solely for making the necessary provision for the defence of the country. I challenge the Opposition to give any valid reason why any Australian should refuse to defend this country should it be attacked. If this country were attacked any Australian, worthy of the rights of citizenship should be willing to place himself in service at the place to which he may be ordered by the persons in proper authority. Any man who claims the right to say that, in the event of this country being attacked, he would please himself whether he would join in its defence, is not a worthy Australian citizen and should be denied the rights of citizenship. I say further that, once it is conceded that it is the duty of every man to take part in the defence of this country, it follows that in order that he may he given a part in which he will be of most use, we must know in what direction he can be most usefully employed. I support the bill.

Mr RIORDAN:
Kennedy

.- On the face of it this bill seems, to the uninitiated, to be one of the most harmless looking pieces of legislation ever brought down in this Parliament; but after an examination of the motives that led to its introduction Ave find it to be one which we must oppose with all the resources at our command. Before discussing the bill itself I should like to .refer briefly to the statement of the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn) that the Leader of the Labour party (Mr. Curtin), as recently as October last, suggested in this House that a survey should be undertaken in order to place the defences’ of this country on a sound footing. Such a reference by an honorable member who is opposed to the party to which I belong suggests that the Government, lacking sufficient initiative to bring down a bill for this purpose, followed the hint given by the Leader of the Opposition on that occasion. If that be so it is regrettable that the bill thrown down to us now is evidence that the Government by no means grasped what was in the mind of my leader when he suggested that a national survey should be made. What was suggested was that among other things, a survey of the wealth of this country should be made for use in time of emergency. We have seen other instances of the failure of governments of the same political colour as that of the present Government to grasp the import of suggestions made by the Opposition. For instance, in 1932 the NationalistCountry party Government of Queensland seized upon child endowment, which has been a plank of the Labour party’s platform for many years, as an election cry; but because of its complete misunderstanding of Labour’s policy .in connexion with this matter, it was politically annihilated. Now, this Government has seized upon a, suggestion of the Leader of the Opposition, and because it does not sufficiently comprehend what he had in mind, it is courting political annihilation.

In his second-reading speech on this bill the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street) said -

When, at the beginning of Inst December, I introduced the Loan Bill, which covered in detail the expanded defence programme of the Government, I quoted the following words from a speech delivered by the late Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) -

It is the intention to press on with the completion of plans for all phases of national activity in an emergency. The aim of these is to provide for the parts that could be played by every organization, industry and citizen, either in respect nf their normal work in the life of a community or ‘by special voluntary effort.

Then . went on to say -

Nothing less than organization on this scale will give a democratic state a comparable degree of preparedness to- an authoritatarian state. ‘ . .

The wider steps necessary to implement the Prime Minister’s declaration are briefly: - ‘

The organization of man-power and women’s voluntary efforts -

I take it that this bill is designed to organize man-power -

The regulation and control of primary production in an emergency

We have heard nothing about that -

Industrial mobilization of secondary industries in an emergency -

And we have heard nothing about that.

Mr Street:

– The honorable member heard that subject debated for three weeks.

Mr RIORDAN:

– Apparently the Minister is referring to a measure which was passed through this chamber recently, and which was designed to give a “hand-out” to the wealthy supporters of the Government. The Minister went on -

Commonwealth and State cooperation in peace and war.

The object of this bill is not to organize man-power but to compile a register which will be of assistance to those who desire to destroy the liberty of the people of this country. The honorable gentleman continued -

The purpose of a general survey is to provide an assessment of all skilled labour, and man-power throughout the country in order to throw light on the adequacy or inadequacy of existing resources.

Apparently he is convinced that if we take a survey of man-power we shall then have a survey of the whole of the resources of this country. Why is no . provision made in the bill for a survey of the property owned by the wealthy supporters of this Government? Why not a survey of wealth and industry? Apparentlythe Government is desirous of making a survey of man-power only for the purposes of conscription. As . a matter of fact, the Minister admitted . that in his second-reading speech.

Mr Street:

– I certainly did not.

Mr RIORDAN:

– The honorable gentleman said -

There are, I believe, some who say that this is a form of industrial conscription - that it is proposed to do something that is foreign to the spirit of democracy - something that is abhorrent to Australians.

Mr Street:

– Read on.

Mr RIORDAN:

– I admit that the Minister said there was an excuse for this when he said -

There is no reason why we should not avail ourselves of the opportunity to collect information that will be of use in the preparation of social legislation.

What social legislation has been introduced by this Government since it has been in office? A former Government, with which the Prime Minister and other Ministers were associated, brought down a bill for national insurance which, had it been gone on with, would have resulted in its political extinction.Since then the present Government has been endeavouring to cast off the stigma which rests upon it in relation to this important matter. The Minister went on to say -

Further, it is obvious that key men in industry must not be allowed to vacate their positions to enlist in the defence forces.

In other words, hebrings down a measure to conscript the workers of this country, but at the same time he exempts the friends of the Government and their friends from compulsion to leave these shores to engage in a. capitalist war overseas. The honorable gentleman also said -

A list of reserved occupations is being compiled and will be published for information.

Before this debate closes the Minister should give us some indication of what these reserved occupations are.

Mr Street:

– I shall do so.

Mr RIORDAN:

– I am pleased to have that assurance from the honorable gentleman. I feel sure that, when the list is made available, we shall find that it has been so cleverly compiled as to provide even further protection for the friends of the Government. I oppose this measure not because I am hostile to the taking of a survey to ascertain the resources of this country, but because it is evident that the sole purpose of this bill is to ascertain something by means of which the workers of Australia can be readily conscripted in the event of an emergency. A true survey would include not only man-power but also resources of both primary and secondary industries and of wealth. All that this bill provides for, however, is a survey of manpower. Is it any wonder that we on this side are suspicious when we hear a speech such as that delivered by the Minister for Defence in which he admitted that this bill might be regarded in some quarters as the first step in the direction of industrial conscription ? We know that men of the generation to which the honorable gentleman belongs had to face a situation similar to that which confronts us to-day, and I, as a representative of the present generation, cannot allow this occasion to pass without declaring emphatically that the young men of to-day will not be prepared to give their lives, possibly, just to make the world a better place for vested interests. We refuse to sacrifice our homes, property and all that we hold dear. We know very well what would be the outcome of a world conflict, and we are not blind to what has taken place in Europe. We are not prepared to leave Australia’s shores, although I say without hesitation that, should war come into this country, we would fight to the best of our ability to defend it. My reading of the Defence Act convinces me that, by repealing section 49, the Government could, to-morrow if it so desired, conscript the man-power of Australia for service overseas.

Mr Street:

– That would have to be done by Parliament.

Mr RIORDAN:

– It has frequently been stated on the hustings, over the <air and in this Parliament that, living as we do under the British flag, we enjoy freedom and privileges that are not given to people in some other countries. But this measure, which, as I have said, is a step in the direction of the conscription of man-power, is an attempt to break down that freedom. If it is carried it will notbe long before other forms of compulsion will creep into our national life. Our democratic rights will be filched from us slowly, but none the less surely. This Government is drifting towards fascism. This measure is one which we would expect to see enacted in a totalitarian State.

The bill provides for the compulsory registration of men between the ages of IS and 65 years, and the Defence Act makes provision for the enlistment, in a time of emergency, of men between 18 and 00 years. The’ present state of world unrest is the direct result of control by international armaments ring. Following the passage of this bill, the next step towards conscription will be the introduction of compulsory military training, which, we know, is favoured by the Government. It hoped that Australian workers and their sons would not enlist in sufficient numbers in the voluntary militia. It has been disappointed; the total enlistments now exceed the ‘original quota. But how could this Government hope to introduce a compulsory training scheme when it is unable to equip members of the volunteer militia with uniforms, rifles and ammunition?

Mr Street:

– That is not correct.

Mr RIORDAN:

– It is correct. Recently, representations were made to the Government on behalf of militia recruits in Cairns, who complained bitterly about the lack of equipment. Can the Minister say how many rounds of 303 ammunition there are in the Cairns district? I believe that if a return were called for it would be found that there was not more than one round per man. Yet the Government talks of compulsory military training! That will come, however, as sure as this bill will go through Parliament, and subsequently there will be conscription by this “ roundthecorner “ method.

The bill also provides that youths must register within 30 days of attaining the age of eighteen years, and that youths between the ages of 18 and 21 must notify any change of address. That is another indication of what is in the mind of “the Government. The majority of youths between those age limits are as yet unskilled; they are learning their trades or professions. It is the most important period of their lives. Why is this particular section of the community singled out? If a national register is to be compiled, it. should provide for notification to be made by all men whose names appear on it. These are the things-that make the Opposition suspicious of this measure.

The bill makes provision for the appointment of a board to consist of a representative of the Defence Department, who will be chairman,’ a representative of the Depart men of .Supply and Development, and the Commonwealth Statistician. It enacts further that there shall be an executive officer of the board. Who is this executive’ officer? What, will be his duties? Will he be a member of the Commonwealth Public Service? We know from experience of this Government and its predecessors, that when a position such as this’ is created its occupant is usually selected before the legislation is introduced to Parliament. Apparently this board will be constituted on the lines of a board of directors, similar to directorates of which several Government supporters are members. The bill also empowers the board to demand additional information from any person who registers. Not satisfied with the information asked for in the bill itself, the board is to be authorized to make any other inquiries it thinks fit. To my mind, the whole thing savours of fascism, or worse; it is like the Spanish Inquisition brought up to date. The bill empowers the Governmnent to pry:into the private affairs of all men between the ages of 18 and 65 years.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– So does any census; so does the Income Tax Act.

Mr RIORDAN:

– This is not a census, this is” a sectional thing. A census is something that applies to every man, woman and child. This is an inquisition into the private affairs of certain sections of the community, and those only. The Prime Minister says that he has faith in the people of Australia. He has appealed to their sporting spirit to cooperate with him in these trying times. He says that we must have freedom of speech - that our free institutions must not be challenged, yet he brings down a measure providing for compulsory registration. Is he afraid that the people will not support him ? If he knew anything of the sacrifices the workers had made in the years from 19.14 to 1918, he should have no fear of the response of the- people when they are appealed to in the proper way. Australians enlisted in’ their hundreds of thousands when Australia was in danger, and they are just’ as ready to respond again, but they will not be driven. I can see what is behind this measure. This is an example of fascist rule, towards which the present Government has been tending ever since the last elections. Apparently it is not prepared to’ trust the people. The workers have never let Australia down. That was demonstrated on Gallipoli and in Prance. They are always prepared to assist in any movement for the protection of Australia, In contrast with this, however, “we have a record of vested interests which, time and time again, have let Australia down. During the last war,- when the workers were dying overseas to . make the world safe for democracy, the wealthy interests were reaping a harvest from the war loans and profits. During the economic depression the same people, or people of the same class, opposed every proposal for a reduction of interest rates. One does not need to be a wonderful prophet to foretell that this national register will prove to be but the first step towards compelling the workers to” sacrifice their lives, if need be, in defence of the factories and investments of the wealthy classes, The workers will not be asked to make that sacrifice; they are to be compelled. A true survey of Australia’s resources would necessarily include a register of wealth, but the Government is apparently frightened that, if a survey of wealth were made, the people would wake up to the fact that they are being exploited. Why could not the Government introduce a voluntary register? The system of voluntary military training has proved successful, and has been endorsed by the people. Of course, it is obvious that information sought under this measure is wanted for an ulterior purpose. The Minister is to have power to divulge the information obtained through the register, another indication of the drift of this Government towards fascism. The Minister is also to have power to say whether or not persons shall be prosecuted. Clause 24 is simply reprinted from the Crimes Act. It creates no new offences. It is very similar to the Queensland criminal code. But clause 26 may well be described as the straw that breaks the camel’s back. This

Government is always telling us to tune in to Great Britain, but clause 26 provides that a man charged with an offence is not to be regarded as innocent until he is proved guilty, which is the British way, and the onus is on him to prove himself innocent. That is the negation of British justice. Section 27 provides for the making of regulations, but we, who are now considering this bill, have no knowledge of what may be contained in those regulations. We hope that the Minister will give us an opportunity to discuss them.

I am opposed to this measure because it is not democratic. If there is to a census, or a complete record, let us have it by all means; not a half-baked proposal of this kind which is sectional in its application. , It does not apply to the whole of the community, and no register of wealth is to be made. The Supply and Development Bill, which has just passed through this House, made no provision for a register of wealth, but merely provided for attaching defence annexes to private factories. It was simply a hand-out to private enterprise.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).Order! The honorable member is not in order in discussing that bill.

Mr RIORDAN:

– The Labour party is not opposed to the making of an effective survey of our national resources, but. it is opposed to this bill, because it is incomplete and sectional in its application, and because of its compulsion on a certain section of the community.

Debate interrupted.

page 1185

FLYING BOAT GUBA

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · Kooyong · UAP

– by leave - I have received a further telegram direct from Mr. Percival on the flying boat Guba. It is as follows : -

The Guba. is now approximately 270 miles from Soenda Strait. At 0,100 feet, conditions of heavy cloud and haze. There is ample fuel in the tanks to make Batavia. The Netherlands Indies civil aviation authorities have been radioed for permission to alight there. Engines running smoothly and all well.

page 1185

NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed.

Mr WARD:
East Sydney

.- I agree with the honorable member for Kennedy (Mr. Riordan) that this measure is not exactly what it might appear to be. It has been described as the first step towards industrial conscription; I prefer to regard it as the second step towards that end, because the Government took the first step when it introduced the Supply and Development Bill. The Labour party objects very strongly to this bill. We believe it to be part of the Government’s plan to establish industrial conscription, and regard it as the forerunner to military conscription. We also strongly object to it because it contains no provision to take a census of wealth. I am not very greatly influenced by the alleged authorities which were quoted by the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn) with respect to the Government’s intention, because we have too often heard leaders of the Government give assurances in certain directions and subsequently seen them adopt a contrary policy. I have been reliably informed, for instance, that the honorable member for Perth himself supported conscription a few years ago. If he believed in such a policy then and supported it, it is quite obvious that he is not to be relied upon when he suddenly appears as an opponent, of conscription. I should like the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street) to explain why the Government became aware so suddenly of the necessity for altering its policy in this matter. When Cabinet met early this year in Hobart, it favoured the establishment of a voluntary register, and official statements were issued setting out reasons why the Government was against a compulsory register. However, for some reason unknown to the general public, it suddenly decided: to reverse its policy, and establish a compulsory register of national resources. Will the Minister inform the House why the Government altered its policy so suddenly in this regard? The voluntary register had not been given a trial, and in view of Cabinet’s decision at its meeting in February last in Hobart, I should like to know why, without any test whatever, it deserted that proposal. It is well known that several Ministers have always been conscriptionists, and it would appear that, when they were able to exercise greater influence following the reconstruction of Cabinet, they decided upon a compulsory register. The late Prime Minister, Mr. Lyons, was originally a strong supporter of the proposal for. a voluntary register. I point out this fact in order to show how little we can rely upon the words of leaders of governments when they are dealing with so important a matter as this. Giving his reasons for a compulsory register after he was converted to that proposal, Mr. Lyons said that it was required for the following purposes : -

To enable a survey to be made of the supply of thu various classes of skilled persons in relation to the demands of the navy, army, and air force. Government munitions factories and annexes of private factories, essential industries and other industries.
To establish an individual record of the skilled persons in the schedule of reserved occupations, so as to ensure! -
1. That the requirements of the army, navy, and air force are provided for by the allotment of persons through technical units.
That persons in factories, annexes, and essential industries remain at their work, and that the additional members required are allotted from non-essential industries and general production.

Analysing that statement closely, it is evident that something more is desired by this Government than a census of the national resources and man-power in order that we may be enabled effectively to organize our defence. I should like the’ Minister to explain just what is meant by the words of the late Prime Minister which I have just read - “ That persons in factories, annexes and essential industries remain at their work, and that the additional members required are allotted from non-essential industries and general production”. . To what spheres are these additional men to be’ allotted? Why should we need to release them if it be not for military service? Tho Minister might also explain exactly in what circumstances the Government will consider it necessary to apply the provisions of this measure. It is true that many statements, such as those quoted by the honorable member for Perth, have been made’ regarding the attitude of the Government on this matter. The late Prime Minister was reported in the Age, Melbourne, on the 20th October^ 1937, during the election campaign in that year, as saying -

The people can take my pledge - conscription will not bc put into force. In case of necessity the men of Australia would not have to have conscription imposed.

Speaking in Brisbane about the same time the late Prime Minister further stated -

The Government has no intention of ever introducing conscription. It is satisfied with the voluntary system.

Will the Minister explain whether or not the Government has altered its policy in this respect? Has it decided that the voluntary system is useless? Has it deserted the voluntary system? If it is determined to continue with the voluntary system what is the necessity for this measure? If it is not tho intention of the Government to use the information which it secures through this register for the purpose of imposing conscription, what is the use of it? What is the use of obtaining information compulsorily unless the Government intends to take what will then be the logical step of using such information for the purpose of compelling men to render service as workers or as soldiers? In his second-reading speech the Minister said -

The object of setting up an organization to register the man-power of the nation is to ensure that, as far as possible, every man shall he allocated to the task for which his training and avocation best fit him, so that the utmost value in service will be available to the nation to meet an emergency.

Is the emergency to which he refers to apply only when this country is faced with invasion, or will it be an emergency of the kind which has occurred so frequently in recent weeks? We know that this legislation has been introduced on the pretext that happenings on the other side of the world have given rise, according to the Government, to an emergency. Exactly in what circumstances will the Government declare that an emergency has arisen in order to provide itself with an excuse to impose industrial conscription, and conscription for military service overseas? It is useless for honorable members opposite to deny that the Government intends to impose conscription for overseas military service. The most important thing, unfortunately, is that the Government has power to impose conscription for military service overseas without making any appeal at all for the approval of the people. It can take such action by virtue of a majority in this Houseby amending existing legislation. If theGovernment is sincere in its declarations on this matter and if it does not intend to introduce conscription for military service overseas, I should like to know why I and other honorable members have failed in questions directed to the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) to secure information regarding its powers in this direction under the Constitution, despite the fact that the Prime Minister is alleged to be one of the best constitutional “ brains “ in the community. No member of the Government has been prepared to assert that a safeguard now exists in the Constitution against any attempt to impose conscription for military service overseas. If this Government were sincere in this matter it would immediately give to the people an opportunity to place this safeguard definitely in the Constitution. The honorable member for Perth said that all honorable members were aware that the majority of the people of Australia is opposed to conscription tor overseas military service. That is true. In my constituency, for instance, the majority is opposed to it, but I am not so certain that a majority of the members of this Government is opposed to such a policy. Therein lies the real danger. Although the majority of the people is opposed to such a policy and might elect representatives to this Parliament to uphold that view on such an issue, nothing in the Constitution compels any Government to enact only that legislation which has been approved by the people at the ballot-box. We known that governments are prone to depart from policies on which they are elected. Honorable members may be elected to this Parliament as anticonscriptionists, but a government which they support might, on the plea that unforeseen circumstances have arisen, declare that it has no alternative but to impose conscription for overseas military service. In such circumstances all of the declarations made by honorable gentlemen opposite are of no avail, if they fail to place this issue directly before the people and undertake to give effect to the people’s verdict. Let us examine the position as it exists at the moment. The honorable member for Kennedy said thai there should be no objection to the organization of industry on a basis that would enable us to implement the most effective defence plan possible. Where the defence of Australia is concerned there can be no real argument against any effective plan for the protection of our shores, but has this Government ever displayed any ability in providing such a plan? It says that it must have a. register of all of our skilled employees, and also a plan to allocate them to spheres where their services can best be utilized; yet to-day 29,000 unemployed skilled Australians are registered for employment at the Government’s own munition factories.

Mr.Street. - Not skilled.

– The honorable member’s interjection supports my contention that those who have money to lend, and would be the greatest losers in the event of Australia ‘being successfully invaded, subscribe to defence loans only when the terms of such loans are attractive as a financial investment. They do not contribute out of any sense of real patriotism. Even if there were no interest at all on such loans - and, in my opinion, defence loans should be free of interest - these wealthy gentlemen, who are regarded by the Government as patriotic and publicspirited citizens, should still have made their contributions and caused the loans to bc over-subscribed. The reason that the loans were under-subscribed is that they did not offer a sufficient ‘financial inducement to these people. The only way to get them to assist in the defence of the country is to offer th&m high interest rates. In an emergency, when the call on the wealth of the country is greater than in normal times, these wealthy interests take advantage of the situation. A study of happenings in Australia during the last war will show that the greater the difficulties of the country, and, therefore, the greater its need for the support of its wealthy citizens, the higher were the rates of interest demanded, by them.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I hope that the honorable member intends to connect his remarks with the bill.

Mr WARD:

– According to the Minister, this bill aims at the efficient organization of the country for its defence. There can be no efficient organization without a census of its wealth. The Government is failing in its duty if it does not provide for such a census. The honorable member for Parramatta (Sir Frederick Stewart) is reported in the Sydney Morning Herald of the 26th January, 1 939, as having said at a recruiting rally:-

If wo have the right to call upon the youth of tho country then we also have the right to call upon the wealth of the country.

At that time the honorable gentleman was a private member of this Parliament ; I wonder what his views are now that he is a member of the Cabinet?

In my opinion, this bill seeks to establish a military dictatorship in Australia. The Minister may attempt to ridicule that contention, but I shall endeavour to show from his own bill that it is well founded. This measure provides for the setting up of a National Register Board which will consist of one representative of the Defence Department who shall be its chairman, a representative of the Department of Supply and Development and a third member who shall be the Commonwealth Statistician. As the Department of Supply and Development will be an auxiliary of the Department of Defence, there will really be two defence officers on the board. There is to be no limit to the inquiries which the board may make into the private affairs of citizens. It is true that, following protests by the Opposition to such, provisions, the Minister has circulated a number of amendments which purport to place a limit upon the inquisition that may take place. The Deputy Leader of’ the Opposition (Mr. Forde) pointed out that the inquiries need not be limited to the questions set out in the schedule to the bill, as there existed power to alter them from time to time.

Mr Street:

– The proposed amendments were circulated before the Deputy Leader of the Opposition spoke.

Mr WARD:

– They were circulated only after the protest of the Opposition became known to the Minister. Let us examine whether the proposals of the Minister will be effective in preventing any extension of the inquisitorial prying into the circumstances of any individual member of the community. Clause 16 reads - 10. (1) A census or censuses of male persons or classes of persons who have attained tho age of eighteen years and have not attained the age of sixty-five years shall be taken in such States, Territories or parts of the Commonwealth and on such day or days or within such period or periods as the Governor-General by Proclamation directs.

The nature of the particulars required to he furnished by the persons or classes of persons of whom a census is taken under this section shall be specified in the Proclamation.

Clause 17 says - (1.) The Commonwealth Statistician shall, subject to any proclamation and to the directions of tho Minister, prepare forms and instructions, and take all necessary steps, for the taking of any census directed to be taken under this act. (2.) The forms so prepared shall be made available at post offices and postal receiving offices throughout the Commonwealth, and at such other place or places as the Minister directs.

There is no mention in this clause of the form prescribed in the schedule. The clause merely states that the census forms shall be prepared by the Commonwealth Statistician subject to proclamation and directions given by the Minister.

Mr Street:

– I am advised that that is not so.

Mr WARD:

– The Minister denies it, but I am quoting from the bill and I defy the Minister to place any other interpretation on the clause. There is no limit on the inquiries that the military police will be able to make into the private affairs of members of the community, because we find that clause 20 reads - _ For the purpose of any inquiries or observations necessary for tlie proper carrying out of this act or the regulations, all persons shall, when required by the Commonwealth Statistician or by any officer authorized in that behalf in writing by the Commonwealth Statistician, answer questions and produce documents within such time as the Commonwealth Statistician or the authorized officer thinks fit.

Power is to be given for the delegation of authority by the Commonwealth Statistician who could, and no doubt would, delegate it to military officers. We know what happened during the last war when we had our War Census Act and our War Precautions Act. Decent citizens were disturbed at all hours of the day and night and their possessions were turned over because the government’s officers were seeking evidence - its nature was never disclosed - in the hope that they would be able to procure the conviction of decent persons for the mere reason that their political beliefs were opposed to those of the government of the day. Who is to know that this Government will not use its powers to the full? The chairman of the National Register Board no doubt will be a military officer and as such he would not be concerned about the opinions of the elected representatives of the people in Parliament. That board may delegate its powers to certain military gentlemen. We know exactly to what the unfortunate citizens would then be subjected.

The Minister said by way of interjection to the honorable member for Kennedy (Mr. Riordan) that it was not the intention of the Government to introduce conscription or to use this measure for that purpose. He said that that would be against the policy of the Government. If such be the case, why has that clause 23 been included? It reads -

Any male person who has attained the age of eighteen years, or who, after the commencement of this act, attains the agc of eighteen years, and has not attained the age of 21 years shall, within 30 days of any change occurring in his address, notify that change of address in the prescribed manner.

The Minister told the honorable member for Werriwa (Mr. Lazzarini), “ That is only to bridge over the gap from IS to 21 years, when they would ordinarily become enrolled and information concerning the change of address would become available to the Department.” The Minister also said “ This register will not be for the purpose of getting information in order to introduce conscription; it is designed to assist in organizing industry”. I wish the Minister could indicate to honorable members in what trade or calling he considers that a youth of eighteen could be skilled. Why, most youths of that age are only starting to learn a trade and do not become skilled until they are much older. If the bill were only for the purpose of organizing industry, there would be no need to begin the registration of men at the tender agc of eighteen. But it is “ not. The eighteen-year-olds constitute the first class to be called up in a conscript army. The people and honorable members themselves, therefore, should have no hesitation in concluding what is behind the introduction of this measure. The Minister will have great, difficulty in explaining, if this bill is only for the purpose of organizing industry, why it is necessary to have a check on the youths of from 18 to 21 years of age, because he must admit that few of them would possess any skill in their trades or occupations. How can the Government expect to succeed with a measure, the purpose of which is industrial and military conscription? In spite of their protestations about not supporting the policy of conscription, the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) and his colleagues recognize that a great section of the community is suspicious of this Government. Experience of its inept handling of problems gives the community every right to mistrust the Administration. If the Government believes that the workers would not voluntarily supply information to be placed on a national register, how does it expect to obtain it compulsorily against the opposition of the general community? Cbe Minister for Defence cannot point to any speech made by any member of his party in the last election campaign in which an indication was given to the general public that the Government intended to introduce such a measure as this. The Government talks about maintaining respect for democratic institutions. How can there be respect for alleged democratic institutions, when a party elected on a particular policy departs from it immediately it takes control of the treasury bench? This Government has no mandate for this bill. Such a proposal was never placed before tlie electors or approved by them, and, in my opinion, the true democrats outside this Parliament will be doing1 more to uphold the principle of democracy by preventing this Government from achieving its purpose under this measure than by meekly submitting to it. The workers have effective ways to prevent the Government from imposing its will upon them. The Australian people will not weakly yield to enforcement of the Government’s militaristic policy. The Government can drive them to the machines, tie them to the machines if it likes, but it cannot make them use the skill which they possess in operating those machines. The workers of this country would be ready if the occasion arose, voluntarily to defend the country against an invasion-, yet this Government thinks it necessary to introduce compulsion under this measure. I heard on one occasion an eminent gentleman say that if ever the occasion arose when men would not voluntarily defend their country it would be because the time had arrived when the country was no longer worth defending. When the workers are needed to defend this country, they will refuse to allow the continuance of exploitation of themselves and their dependants. Does the Government imagine that they are content to become trained and skilled in the use of arms and use them only when a small, influential coterie in the community demands that they be used? The workers are prepared to defend this country, but do not imagine that they will allow the continuance of the state of affairs that has existed h recent years. The workers are not unreasonable when they demand that, whether it be war-time or peace-time, they have the right to live as human beings. They want those who are by reason of age or infirmity, unable to take employment to be provided with sufficient income to enable them to live on a like standard with the rest of the community,. But what is the attitude of this Government with respect to these questions? ThePrime Minister has definitely refused even to .consider an increase of the rate of invalid and old-age pensions; he did not say that that was because of any financial difficulties confronting the Government. In reply to a question which I asked, he said that the Government would not even consider an increase of the rate of pension. The right honorablegentleman told the honorable member for Ballarat (Mr. Pollard) that he was not prepared to do anything to assist the unemployed. Yet he appealed to the people’ssporting spirit. The people of this country, he said, had an inherent sportingspirit and because of that he appealed tothem. We do not want weak, sentimental appeals from a supine Prime Minister. What the workers want, and will demand when they are strong enough to do so, issocial justice. Why should the children of the workers have inflicted on them such misery and degradation as exists in Australia to-day? What has this Government done in the way of national planning toend that? The people in New South Wales are pleading with the State and the Commonwealth Governments for funds toenable the heating of schools so that children may receive their education in comfort; an appeal came from Melbourne for a few thousands of pounds for the supply of milk to needy children, but the Commonwealth Government said that it had no funds available for that purpose.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Prowse:
FORREST, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Order! The honorable gentleman’s references are rather wide of the bill.

Mr WARD:

– They may be, but they are pertinent to present circumstances. This Government has appealed for the co-operation of the general community, but unless it can prove that it is prepared to give to the people something more than has been their lot for many years, it cannot expect that co-operation. This Government has lost the confidence and support of the people. Every by-election that has been decided in recent months has been lost by the Government, and with a few more by-elections we should have a .change of government. It has lost seats which were formerly strongholds of the United Australia party, proving conclusively that the Government’s policy is not approved by the people. The Government sent the Prime Minister to Wilmot.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER:

– I read the Minister’s speech, in bed and in the train, and I could find in it nothing relating to the real defence of this country.

– Surely I shall be permitted to state my objections to the introduction of compulsory military service. The Government evidently proposes to take these youths for training at an age when they require the greatest care and attention from their parents. It is at that age that youths become either good citizens or useless, and they will not be helped to become good citizens if they are left at the mercy of the military machine. We know that there would be grave danger of their suffering moral and spiritual injury. Whenever compulsory military training has been introduced, moral standards have deteriorated. The bill provides that if youths do not register they will be fined. The Government proposes to make little criminals of them under a new military code. I have travelled widely in Australia, and have spoken to thousands of men on this subject of the defence of Australia, and never once has a man said to me that it would be necessary to compel him to defend his country. I have asked them whether I could quote them as saying that, and they told me that I could. I have discussed this matter with some of the most radical men in the labour movement, and without exception they have all stated that they were ready to defend Australia under a system of voluntary enlistment, but that they will not support conscription. Members of the Government accuse the Opposition, of being opposed to the adequate defence of Australia, hut that is untrue. We favour adequate defence measures, but we are opposed to this bill because we know it to be a thinly disguised attempt to introduce compulsory military training. I have been authorized by the workers to use every means in my power to oppose this measure, and to appose compulsory training. All those who are opposed to the totalitarian system of government, with its brutal destruction of individual liberty, must necessarily be opposed to this measure. This proposal is directly opposed to the interests of the workers. It is a blow at their most cherished liberties. It is a proposal to hand the people over to the military caste. Under the guise of a simple, inoffensive hill for a national register, the Government is seeking to pave the way for the introduction of conscription. The workers will not be deceived, however. They recognize it for what it is - an attempt to impose totalitarian government upon Australia, and to rivet the shackles of conscription on the wrists of the workers. I oppose the bill.

Sitting suspended from. 6.15 to 8 p.m.

Debate interrupted.

page 1199

QUESTION

FLYING BOAT GUBA

Mr FAIRBAIRN:
Minister for Civil Aviation · Flinders · UAP

– by leave - For the information of honorable members, I wish to announce that word has just been received from Port Hedland that the flying boat Guba arrived safely at Batavia at 3.25 p.m.

Honorable Members. - Hear, hear!

page 1199

NATIONAL REGISTRATION BILL 1939

Second Reading

Debate resumed.

Mr.BRENNAN (Batman) [8.1].- The billbefore the House is to provide for the taking of censuses for the purpose of national registration, for the establishment of a national register and for other purposes. And the motion before us is that the bill be read a second time. I am opposed to the bill and to the motion. At the outset I should like to state my grounds of objection in general terms as follows : -

The Government has no mandate from the people for this measure.
It represents a further instalment of militarist policy which the Government is pursuing to the neglect of all social and economic improvement, and, to that extent, it is a further violation of and a further invasion upon, our civil liberty.
Insofar as it deals with industrial matters - employment, unemployment, sustenance, &c. - the bill disregards the needs of the workers and is directed entirely to the coercion of the working class.
The bill involves re-duplication and wasted effort on matters sufficiently dealt with, or capable of being dealt with, so far as it is desirable that they should be dealt with, by the existing Department of Census and Statistics.

I shall take the first two of those propositions together. The Minister for Defence (Mr. Street), in introducing the bill, quoted from a speech made by himself last December, in which he referred to a speech delivered by the late Prime Minister (Mr Lyons) some time prior to that date as manifesting the snail-like celerity with which this Government is dealing with this extraordinary “ time of emergency.” He said -

The late Prime Minister said it is the intention to press on with the completion of plans for all phases of national activity in an emergency.

I have taken leave to say before that we have lived in a curious succession of emergencies for many months past. Even the last elections were conducted in an atmosphere of emergency. These fireworks seem to havebeen operated by somewhat dampened powder, and government crackers are now quoted at about two a penny in the matter of emergencies. If I may be allowed just a passing reference to the question of emergencies with which we are still dealing in this bill, I note that we are so far restored to normal that the Government is liable to switch off at a moment’s notice to, say, a fight for office, or the reconstruction of the remnants of national insurance, or the Sydney General Post Office contract, or margarine versus butter, or matters of that kind which are dull in the emergency market. My first point is that from, and including, the last elections the evidence is that the attempts of the Government to create and foster war hysteria are a record of failure and futility. I should not be permitted, I am sure, to go into details of history to justify that statement, but I may properly refer to them in general terms. As far back as the last general elections, on. an appeal to the people of the Commonwealth for the election of a Senate on the ground claimed by the Government that we were living in a time of great international unrest and that stable government was required, the overwhelming vote of the people was against the Government. In all of the by-elections since held the vote has gone against the Government, and, in addition, in the 1937 election the then Minister for Defence, Sir Archdale Parkhill, the head and front of the militarist propaganda, was himself defeated, together with a number of other members in another place who were active in imperialist propaganda. These facts to an individual in normal times would not, perhaps, have been peculiarly significant. There has been a general progress on the part of the Opposition and the Labour party, hut I should not claim, in normal times, that it was significantly great.

Mr BRENNAN:

– As claimed by the Government, certainly the times are not normal ; they have been made abnormal by this Government. And having regard to the fact that the appeal has been in each of these cases to the patriotism of the people on the basis of a national emergency, and to the fact which was well stated by the honorable member for Denison (Mr. Mahoney), and which, I think, will be acknowledged by all - that in an emergency the people of Australia may ‘be absolutely relied upon to come to the service of this country - we can only rightly conclude that the people have not believed the Government. They have rejected its advice. They have turned it down on this question of international danger. There is no evidence anywhere that the country has accepted the judgment of the Government that there is a call for drastic militarist propaganda and action such as is involved in this bill. The dispassionate observer, therefore, must accept as true that the Government has no mandate for the continuation of intense militarist propaganda, and, further, that the electorate is unimpressed by every effort that the Government has made up to this time in that direction. Referring to his speech in December last, the Minister said -

Then I went on to say the widest steps necessary to implement the Prime Minister’s declaration are, briefly, (1) the organization of man-power and women’s voluntary effort

And a little later, in his modern version of the late Prime Minister’s speech, he said -

Action to put these necessary steps into effect has been taken, first of all, by the introduction of a women’s voluntary register and the compilation of this is now in progress.

I am sure that the ladies will be delighted to know that there is to be no compulsion upon them. That act of chivalry on the part of the Minister is entirely worthy of himself and of the Government, and I am sure a vote of thanks will be duly accorded him by the representatives of ladies’ organizations with which he is in great favour. The fact that the Minister declared there is to be no compulsion put upon the ladies to organize is a pretty broad hint that compulsion is to be put upon the men. That is the natural inference which we draw from the fact that no compulsion is to be put upon the ladies. I do not know why the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory) is so sensitive to even my mildest interjection.

Mr Collins:

– The honorable member is not present.

Mi-. BRENNAN.- I am sure that he is one of the vast army who Will read my remarks if they have been unfortunate not to be present to hear them. But this afternoon - and in some degree this applies also to the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Nairn) - the honorable member for Swan said that so far from favouring conscription for overseas military service, he would be favorable to having a law passed to prevent it. He probably meant an amendment of the Constitution, because there is an existing law which prevents conscription for overseas service. The honorable member for Perth is also opposed to it. So are they all, “ who, you all know, are honorable men “, opposed to conscription for service overseas. I was so interested in the psychological development of the honorable member for Swan that I asked him politely, “ Since when has this change taken place?” His response was a display of petulance which, however, in characteristic style, I heartily forgive. I repeat the question: Since when have these gentlemen ceased to be compulsionists for overseas service? There may be something in the fact that both the honorable member for Perth and the honorable member for Swan come from Western Australia, for that State was a hotbed of conscription during the war. It remained conscriptionist to the last. The honorable member for Perth, who, on the warfront of home service, spoke eloquently and persuasively in favour of conscription, now declares that, in no circumstances, would he favour compulsory service for overseas. I have great respect for these honorable gentlemen, but, in the light of history, I cannot accept their word with regard to conscription for overseas service. My experience has been too bitter. We greybeards, or baldheads, as the case may be, have been through too much ; we remember, but we do not trust. That is my answer to the honorable member for Swan. I think that these gentlemen are like the character in Hamlet of whom it was said, “ the lady protests too much, methinks “.

I made another note while the Minister was speaking. He said -

At a conference held in this chamber at the end of March last, a firm basis was established for co-operation between the Commonwealth and the States in times of peace and war.

I sometimes think that it would be a good thing if the Hansard reporters were empowered, on certain occasions, to insert in parenthesis the word “Laughter” as an indication that an observation has been either not seriously intended or’ not seriously received.

Mr Street:

– Onthe contrary, it was most seriously meant.

– The Minister may . think that I am wrong, but I remember the conferenceto which I am referring. 1 do not remember any conference between the Commonwealth and the States at which a firm basis for cooperation between them for the purpose of defence, was ever established, but I do remember a conference at which the right honorable member for Cowper submitted a thoughtful scheme of works and development which received but scant courtesy at the hands of those present. My recollection of it is that the representatives of each State made a bold bid for as much money as they could get for public works to provide work for the unemployed. On that occasion, Mr. Stevens, the Premier of New South Wales, propounded the new doctrine that, by means of a fiduciary issue, money should bo raised to meet the necessities of the unemployed.

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. G. J. Bell).I ask the honorable member to connect his remarks with the bill.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– Obviously, the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) is short of ideas.

Mr BRENNAN:

– I am not profoundly disturbed by the honorable gentleman’s interjection, but if I were short of ideas, that would be all the more reason why I should make the best of those that come to my mind. The address of the Minister - and this applies to most of the speeches by honorable gentlemen supporting the Government - contained frequent references to manpower and war material. For example, the Minister said -

The object of setting up an organization to register the man-power of the nation is to ensure that, as far as possible, every man shall be allocated to the task for which his training and avocation best fit him, so that the utmost value in service will be available to the nation to meet an emergency.

What strikes me about this debate is the curious attitude of the Minister at the table - whoever he may be - how objectively he refers to the “masses of mankind “. For instance, the Minister for Defence spoke of mankind as cattle apart, or material apart. He looks at mankind all the time from the outside. When he speaks of organizing man-power he does not say “.We shall organize ourselves”, or that “I, this Minister, and you, the members of this Parliament, and all of us human beings shall do certain things “. Instead, looking at the mass of mankind. - the cattle which are to be operated upon - and regarding mankind objectively, he says “We must organize this man-power, and this material, for the defence of the country.” But when it comes to saying in whose defence they are to be organized, he finds that that is a vastly different thing. We find that the organizing of man-power - these cattle and this material - is entirely designed for the protection and maintenance of the material goods possessed almost exclusively by those gentlemen who speak so glibly about “ the defence of this country “ when they mean the defence of themselves and their possessions. The masses are to he organized in their interests. They see things from the point of view of a bullock-driver in charge of a team of bullocks. When they say that men shall be allocated to the task for which they are best suited, they say, in effect : “ We shall put Ginger in the lead, and Baldy in the pole near the load, and Rough-neck in the middle “. The Minister is the picturesque gentleman who wields the whip with the long handle and the impressive lash for the purpose of organizing the man-power and the material in the load in the interests of this country, “which country we are,” as the oath taken toy every juryman puts it. At one stage during the Minister’s speech, the honorable member for Barker (Mr. Archie Cameron) asked : “ Is this an economic or a defence measure ? “ The Minister replied guardedly - if I do not quote him exactly he will be able to correct me - “ This is a measure which could be employed for the purpose of social betterment or uplift.” He did not claim that the main purpose of the bill was the betterment and uplift of the people, the improvement of their social conditions, and their rescue from the mire, but he suggested that in more sympathetic hands it might be so used.

Mr Lazzarini:

– When Labour comes into power it will be so used.

Mr BRENNAN:

– As the honorable member has so aptly indicated, a Labour government might employ this legislation, or a similar measure, to improve the lot of the common people.

Sir Henry Gullett:

– When Labour comes into power!

Mr BRENNAN:

– I shall never occupy a place of power if the approach to it means adopting the policy favoured by the honorable gentleman. I would rather remain in opposition, as I have during most of my political life, than seek the prizes of office by the sacrifice of principle.

Under this legislation, a board is to be established. More will probably be said on that aspect during the committee stages. The chairman is to be a representative of the Defence Department, and the board itself will function under the Minister for Defence. These and other facts demonstrate conclusively that the bill is merely a measure of militarist propaganda.

Finally, my fourth point is that this is unnecessary re-duplication for no purpose which is worth achieving. So far as it represents a census, so far as it represents useful information for the purposes I have mentioned, we already have a Census and Statistics Department employing capable officers and machinery, but the Minister tells us that a further ‘band of officers is to he employed in conjunction with that department.

Mr Beasley:

– And in the Electoral Department.

Mr BRENNAN:

– Yes. The Census Department is an intelligent compiler of useful information. At any rate, a new department and new employees are to be set up. There may be some consolation in that 30 or 40 jobs are created for the tens of thousands of people who aYe out of work and looking for jobs, but that will be a partial and, I fear, futile attempt to deal with the big problem. When these departments are scrapped and these attenuated emergencies have been finally thrown aside and cast into the bin as damaged electoral goods, what is to become of the thousands of people who are now employed in making munitions, in compiling registers, in the abortive national insurance, in the Department of Supply and Development? When all this hysteria has died down will it again be the sad fate of a Labour government to inherit the consequences of the misdeeds of its predecessor, and so earn the displeasure of the electors, as it -did before in similar circumstances. Because I do not believe that this bill contains any germ of usefulness for the people whom I represent, because Government policy is guided by war hysteria and because I feel that this House is wasting time instead of pressing on to do something of real benefit for a disappointed and disillusioned people, because the rising generation is clamouring for employment and opportunity and the adult generation - 29,000 people in the munitions works alone - is struggling to keep its employment or secure other work, and because this Government has neglected opportunities and is serving only personal ambition, I am opposed to the bill.

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
Minister for External Affairs · Henty · UAP

– I did not intend to intervene in this debate, and I have done so only because of the extraordinary charges made by the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), in particular against the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street), but generally against supporters of the Government. The honorable member, placing himself on a pedestal, charged the Minister and the Government with hysteria. He charged us with the faking up of a sham emergency for some reasons unknown to him or unknown to us. I need only remind the honorable gentleman, and honorable members of the House as a whole, that this hysteria with which the honorable member charged us, this state of emergency which we declare, prevails to-day in almost every civilized country. I put it to the honorable gentleman and to. members of the Opposition that the attitude of the honorable member is his alone. “When the honorable gentleman declares that there is no danger to this country at present he not only is alone in this House and in this country, but also is practically alone in all the world.

– What will be the position if this bill is not made law? The taking of a partial census of the, people such as is envisaged in this bill is absolutely necessary in the public interest in order to determine the manpower resources of this country. As I have said, if the bill is thrown out, there is no alternative but to take a complete census of the people to include the questions contained in the schedule to this bill. The Government has power under the Census and Statistics Act 1905-1938 to take a. complete census of all citizens and to put any questions it wishes to the people. Section 8 1 of that act provides -

The census shall he taken in the year One thousand nine hundred and eleven and every tenth year thereafter or at such other time as is prescribed.

It will be seen, therefore, that the Government already has authority to prescribe that time at which a census shall be taken. Section 16 of the act provides -

The Statistician shall, subject to the regulations and the directions of the Minister, collect, annually, statistics in relation to all or any of the following matters: -

population;

Paragraphl evidently refers to matters prescribed by executive council minute. So that the position is that the Government would be able to deal with this matter in a very broad way under the Census and Statistics Act if the desire of the Opposition to defeat this bill happened to succeed. It. has been suggested that the mere fact that provision has been made in the bill to ensure the return of census cards must necessarily mean the preliminary to conscription. I give that the lie direct. In regard to the general question of conscription for war purposes or for service overseas, a very definite undertaking for the life of this Parliament was given by the late Mr. Lyons, a former Prime Minister, the Leader of the United Australia party (Mr. Menzies), and myself, as Leader of the Country party, that no Australian shall be conscripted for overseas service.

Mr Forde:

– Does the undertaking of a former Prime Minister bind the present Prime Minister?

Mr Street:

– Yes.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– I have not. the slightest doubt that if the present Prime Minister were asked if he isbound by the election declaration of the former Prime Minister, he would say that he is definitely bound.

Mr Forde:

– The present Prime Minister has never admitted that.

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– When the War Census Bill, a similar measure to that now before the House and brought down by the

Labour party, was debated in this Parliament in 1915, when a war was actually being waged and this country was making its maximum effort both at home and abroad, the leaders of all parties were unanimous that information such as that proposed to be secured in this bill should be compiled. The present AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Hughes),, who was then Prime Minister, during the reading of the War Census Bill, said -

It is regarded as a means for more effectively waging the present conflict upon the principle of voluntary service. That is the purpose of this bill.

Sir William Irvine, speaking for the Opposition at the time, said -

Honorable members, whether they think that any compulsion, moral or otherwise, should bc used, will agree with me that it is desirable that the whole community should know who are the people who might best go to the front; who might render the most effective service with the least disorganization and with the least suffering to this ‘community.

Mr Brennan:

– Will the right honorable gentleman quote my speech on that occasion ?

Sir EARLE PAGE:

– The honorable member will have an opportunity not only to quote his own speech, but also to read the division list which I take it was called for before the bill passed the secondreading stage, which Will show how the great majority of the Labour party voted in regard to the measure. This attempt to delay the passage of this measure by drawing in the red herring of conscription is not in the interest of the safety of this country, and should be resisted to the end.

– Surely the honorable member is not advocating the introduction of German law to this country.

Mr SCHOLFIELD:

– Not for a moment. But I suggest to the honorable member foi- West Sydney that when there are aggressive nations in the world, Australia cannot afford to sit back and say “ We are not going to fight. Please d«i not come near us “. That was tried by Abyssinia, China and other countries, and the result is known to all of us. As a good Australian, I want this country to be in such a position that any nation which might contemplate invasion would realize that having had all our resources tabulated for defence purposes, our successful invasion would be fraught with extreme danger to the invader.. [Quorum formed.]

Mr CLARK:
Darling

– I oppose this bill. Very little good will be done by obtaining the particulars which the Government desires. A few minutes ago the Minister for External Affairs (Sir Henry Gullett) spoke of planning for national security and the necessity for tabulating man-power in order to learn how it might be applied to industry. Honorable members on this side believe that if the Government is anxious to secure information for this purpose, it should be anxious also to conserve Australia’s man-power; but such is not the case. No greater condemnation of the Government has been offered than the departure from this country during the last few months of hundreds of skilled artisans, who have gone to New Zealand to seek permanent employment. They are representative of the best of our manhood. If man-power is necessary for defence, the Government should provide employment, instead of which it is discouraging men who are asking for work. When the Government decided to carry out new defence works, hundreds of applications for employment on government works were made to me and to other honorable members; but the Government tells us that there is no employment offering. If the country is to be defended, it should be made worth defending by ensuring economic security for its citizens after they reach the agc of eighteen years. Many of them now live in economic terror. Men with families know not what to-morrow holds in store for them. A different state of affairs exists in other parts of the world. Canada is carrying out a policy of training artisans for skilled occupations, so that there is no necessity for its young men to seek work in other countries. The direct opposite is the case in Australia. The Government is encouraging the entry of foreign migrants, many of whom cannot even speak English. A businessman told me only last week that when he advertised for an employee the first fourteen applicants for the position were foreigners who had arrived recently. He was astounded at the number of applicants who called on him during the day. It is appalling that men should be brought to the country believing that there are plenty of opportunities for employment, while some of the flower of our manhood are being forced to leave. Any scheme of economic planning should be designed to protect and benefit the very people who are leaving our shores. If the Government would only guard the welfare of its people, there would be little fear of their failing to do their duty should an emergency occur. I do not think that, the need will arise in the near future. Much of the alarm that exists has been caused by the Government. Some honorable members have described this measure as a forerunner of conscription. To support this contention, we may refer to what ha3 been done in the past, both in Australia and in other parts of the world. A census of man-power taken in Great Britain recently was followed immediately by conscription. We are told, that conscription was brought about, not so much for the safety of Great Britain itself, as to meet the demands of countries with which it had made treaties. The War Census Bill was introduced in Australia in July, 1915, during the Great War. The opposition to that measure was similar to that which is offered to the present bill. Parliament was told that the War Census Bill was not in any way a forerunner of conscription, but twelve months later the government of the day tried to enforce conscription. The measure was introduced by the then Attorney-General (Mr. Hughes), who is again AttorneyGeneral in this Parliament. In his second-reading speech in 1915, he said, amongst other things, “ The bill does not contemplate conscription.” Those words would appear to be reassuring to Parliament and to the country. He added -

I do not believe that conscription is necessary . . . The measure contemplates the organization of our forces for the better waging of the conflict upon the principles of voluntary military service.

That measure, however, was passed through Parliament in the face of opposition from both sides of the House. To show the atmosphere of suspicion that surrounded the measure and the belief that it was associated with conscription, I shall quote the statements of a number of prominent members of the House at that time.

Sir John Forrest said

We cannot make use of it except by recourse to conscription.

Sir Littleton Groom, then member for Darling Downs, said -

The measure may give us certain information that will prove of use if we are to have conscription.

Mr. Glynn, who represented the Angas electorate, said -

I confess I cannot see the necessity for it, unless it means conscription.

Sir Joseph Cook said

If we take this measure of compulsion - I hesitate to use the word - to the manhood of Australia, the reflex influence coming from a man having to record details of himself in this compulsory way will be excellent when the recruiting sergeant makes his appearance.

He apparently had the view that the measure would enforce a sort of economic conscription by compelling men to join the armed forces because of the information which they had given to the Government.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– None of those men were Labour members.

Mr CLARK:

– That is so. Further opposition was expressed by Mr. Hannan, the member for Fawkner, who said -

Fear has been expressed by many people that the intention of the Government was to introduce conscription. I am perfectly satisfied after the assurances given by the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General, that conscription is not the intention.

Sir Austin Chapman, member for Eden Monaro, said that he had no fear that conscription would be introduced under the measure, but many other members expressed the opinion that it would be a forerunner of conscription. It was definitely pointed out that otherwise it would have no value, because men could not bc allotted to any particular sphere of activity under a voluntary system. Opinion expressed outside Parliament supported that view. It was stated in the press and elsewhere that the bill would lead to both industrial and military conscription. Because honorable members were dubious about supporting the bill, Mr. Fisher, the then Prime Minister, said -

Any attempt to associate this bill with conscription is an attempt to mislead the public.

I recall the famous statement made in the same debate by the present AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Hughes), who was also Attorney-General at that time -

In no circumstances would I agree to send men out of this country to fight against their will.

If the day ever comes when men will not fight when their country is at death grips, it will be because the country is rotten to . the core, and not worth fighting for.

In view of these statements one would have naturally expected that no attempt would be made to force conscription upon the people of this country. We know, however, what happened pursuant to the compilation of the register ,in 1915. Indeed, the speech made by the Minister in opening this debate reminds one of the speech made by his colleague, the Attorney-General, on that occasion. In fact, the two speeches are almost identical except that the Minister’s speech includes current topics.

Mr Street:

– I have never read the speech of the Attorney-General.

Mr CLARK:

– The Minister said-

There are, I believe, some who say that this is a form of industrial conscription! - that it is proposed to do something which is foreign to the spirit of democracy - something that is abhorrent to Australians.

The Minister pointed out that such was not the Government’s intention, and he proceeded to show how this legislation would be applied in order that every one might be allotted tasks in which his services could best be utilized. Under the War Census Act 1915 similar information was obtained, and tabulated in respect of age groups, single and married men, occupations and so on. It is proposed to tabulate this information in a similar way. What could be the object of the Government in asking for this information if it did not intend to introduce conscription? It could only be applied in connexion with a compulsory service scheme. In view of what happened subsequent to the enactment of the War Census Act in 1915 honorable members to-day are justified in refusing to accept the word of the Govern* ment as to the purposes for which it requires this information. Denials similar to those , now being expressed by the Minister were given in 1915. The then Attorney-General denied in the plainest language that the Government intended to introduce conscription ; yet only twelve months later he was the leader of a government which endeavoured to force conscription on the people by way of referendum. In view of these facts, one must be wary of any assurances given by the present Government in this respect. Such assurances could not be accepted in 1915, and they cannot be accepted with any greater confidence now. It is significant that national registration was the prelude to the introduction of conscription recently in Great Britain. Our fears in this direction are also justified by the noncommittal attitude adopted by the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies) who has declined, in answer to numerous questions, to say whether the Government is for or against conscription. The right honorable gentleman has merely replied that a statement will be made on this matter at the appropriate time. Consequently, we are justified in regarding this measure as an instalment of conscription. It is the intention of the Government first, to obtain all of the information it requires, and then to go ahead with the introduction of conscription. I point out that when the attempt to introduce conscription failed “ in 1916 the information obtained under the “War Census Act 1915 was never used. As the cost of compiling that register wa3 £150,000, I question the estimate of £40,000 which the Minister has given in respect of this register. I reiterate that this information can be of no value whatever unless the Government intends to introduce conscription. Therefore, it is not an urgent measure. The Government, however, persists in regarding it as such whilst it neglects its responsibility to deal with questions of vital importance to the national and economic welfare of our people. It is a frivolous measure born of war hysteria, and, therefore, futile. Any expense incurred in the compilation of this register will be wasted, because the register might never be used. Certainly it will never be used if the Government does not intend to introduce conscription. This bill represents the introduction of a vicious principle, and 1” say unhesitatingly that the people will not accept it. It provides for heavy penalties, ranging up to imprisonment for six months or a fine of £50, for failure to lodge returns. It is hardly necessary to manufacture additional crimes, because the liberty of our people has already been too greatly restricted. They should not be called upon to make these returns. An important omission from the bill is its failure to provide for a register of wealth, although in 1915 such information was collected.

Mr Archie Cameron:

– There was no Commonwealth income tax then, but the people have to make a Commonwealth income tax return annually now.

Mr CLARK:

– I remind the honorable gentleman, as I pointed out in 1933 when the returns from the last census were being discussed, that about 70 per cent, of the breadwinners of this country do not return any Commonwealth income tax return because they are not earning more than £3 a week. That is a disgrace to any government, and this Government would be doing a far greater service to Australia if it paid more attention to the compilation of a register of wealth instead of man-power. In connexion with this aspect of the War Census Act 1915, Sir William Irvine said -

I should not nave the slightest objection to district committees handling manhood returns. The wealth returns would have to be dealt with as confidential, and dealt with only by regularly-paid officers

At that time, apparently, the Government was prepared to allow manhood returns to be obtained by local committees, but regarded all information concerning wealth as most confidential. Discussing that measure in 1915, Sir Joseph Cook said -

I hope that the available material for the prosecution of the war will continue to pour in.

That summarizes the view which this Government takes of this measure. It regards the manhood of this country as war material. It is, indeed, unfortunate that the Government is actuated by hysteria and prefers to deal with measures of .this kind, whilst neglecting to implement economic and social reforms for the advancement and betterment of the people. If it attended to its duty, it would be more concerned about giving to the people conditions worth fighting for, which would remove all doubt as to whether or not they would be prepared to defend their country. The Government’s defence policy is one of sham, show and expense. Daily the people are faced with new economic worries. The Government has much to say concerning what it describes as the major matter of defence, yet only a few months ago we were informed in the press that sufficient text-books were not available for distribution among the members of the militia forces. If this report be true, it is a serious reflection on the Government’s sincerity and ability. I do not know whether such books must be imported.

Mr Street:

– They have been printed locally.

Mr CLARK:

– At any rate, it is a disgrace to the Government if they were not available when required. Surely we have military experts here capable of compiling these text-books! In conclusion, I repeat that the Government has failed in its duty to establish any planned economy for the social welfare of our people. It has forced many of our skilled artisans to find employment in other countries. That fact is sufficient to condemn any government. Yet we are told that the Government has inaugurated a plan for the technical training of our youth. Again I point out, by way of warning, that the happenings consequent upon the passage of the “War Census Act in 1915 compel us to view this measure with the greatest apprehension. We must not be satisfied to acceptmerely what the Government says it intends to do, because we shall probably find that another measure will be introduced to impose conscription, as was done in 1916. [Quorum formed.]

Mr BEASLEY:
West Sydney

– Honorable members on this side of the House are opposed to any measure that can be interpreted as likely to lead towards conscription for military purposes and service overseas. The history of the past struggles in relation to conscription should be sufficiently well known for honorable members to realize the determination of the Opposition to oppose any measure designed to impose conscription On the manhood of Australia. Government supporters may claim that the bill has no such intention. Indeed, Ministers have given certain undertakings in that connexion, and their supporters have contended that those undertakings ought to be accepted by us without question. We must, however, be guided by past happenings, and in this connexion I remind the House that similar declarations were given in 1915. With all the eloquence at their command, Government supporters of the day denied that the legislation to provide for a war census was the forerunner of conscription. The honorable member for North Sydney (Mr. Hughes), who was Attorney-General in the Government of the day, declared emphatically that the Government was entirely free from any desire to impose conscription upon the people ; yet, within twelve months of that time, the right honorable gentleman used all the powers that he possessed in an endeavour to force conscription upon Australia. Government supporters should therefore realize that the Opposition believes that its fears are well founded and its attitude to this measure justified. Because we on this side cannot accept the declarations of Government supporters as to the purpose of this measure, we must exercise all the powers that we possess to oppose any measure which is designed to impose, or is capable , of imposing, conscription on the people of this country. In so doing, we are only faithfully discharging what we believe to be our duty.

– I. shall come to that. When Herr Hitler decides to build a road from one end of Germany to the other, the work is undertaken without demur or delay and agencies to provide employment and all necessaries for the German subjects are set in motion. But if we in Australia propose a public work, the construction of a road, for instance, all action is paralyzed until we solve the problem of financing it. The state of affairs in these countries contrasts strongly with that in Australia, because, whereas, in Germany and Italy works that are necessary are provided for, it is reported in the Sydney press that -financial stringency in New South Wales may shortly bring relief works and many other governmental activities in that State to a stand-still. -The authority for that statement is a Minister in the Government of New South Wales. We cannot, therefore, prepare for an emergency if we are facing a financial deadlock. It would seem that we are merely fooling ourselves’ by putting such legislation as this on the statute-book. There is ground for suspicion that the Government, instead of dealing with actualities, is either merely tinkering at the problem or requires the register of man-power for a purpose quite apart from the purposes enunciated in the Minister’s secondreading speech. As the discussion proceeds, the Minister may he able to give us more details of what is being done. He may be able to satisfy me that the credit resources of this country will be so marshalled as to ensure that the maximum production of primary industries will be maintained and that we shall he able to store sufficient products to tide us over au emergency. But he -has yet to explain why the farmers in parts of New South “Wales are fighting to remain on their holdings and are talking about boycotting those who are trying to dispossess them.

The Minister’s speech mentioned that he had ‘attended a conference of the Commonwealth and State Ministers at which it was agreed that there should be the closest co-operation between the Commonwealth and the States in times of peace and war. An unfortunate feature of these conferences is that we never receive very much information about them. Premiers come and go, conferences are held and decisions reached, and we read about them in the newspapers. Beyond that we receive no information.

Mr Rankin:

– I hope so.

Mr BEASLEY:

– Then we .are getting along very well. I have taken ten minutes to make this point, but the time was well expended. Now that my point has been sustained, I shall leave the matter there.

It seems to me that more explanation should be given of clause 23 which deals with the registration of youths upon reaching the age of 21 years. The clause reads -

Any male person who has attained the age of eighteen years, or who, after the commencement of this act, attains the age of eighteen years, and has not attained the age of 21 years shall, within 30 days of any change occurring in his address, notify that change of address in the prescribed manner.

Militia Forces: Conditions at Enog- gera Camp - Salary and Allowances of Sir Ernest Fisk - Hatcraft Proprietary Limited.

Motion (by Mr. Street) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

– I bring to the notice of the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street) a statement which I have received from a reliable source with reference to the conditions at Enoggera camp during the recent training exercises there of the 15th/26th . Battalion, and I hope that the Minister will have immediate inquiries made in the interests of the members of the militia forces. I feel keenly on this matter, because I was one of those who, in Queensland, did all they could to stimulate recruiting so as to bring the number of militia up from 35,000 to 70,000. I cannot say, of my own knowledge, that the statements in this communication which I have received from a person holding a high position in Queensland are true, but they are sufficiently grave to warrant an inquiry. The following is an extract from it: -

Monday, the 8th May, dinner time brought about its first disillusionment when dry bread, a slice of corn beef and tea was the menu, and when pleas ofthe men were heard, butter (a very dear item, we were told) was brought on. The food for the rest of the camp was not that which a young soldier would sit down and enjoy in peace time.

The meat seemed to have had all the goodness boiled out of it. and, withthe exception of turnip and cabbage on a very few occasions, greens were noticed by their absence.

The general opinions of the men were that better meals would be obtained in gaol. The hygienic surroundings of the camp did not im press most of these healthy young men. Thecans of water for washing plates, cups and utensils were all thickly coated with grease when, several hundred men had washed their plates in them; it was impossible to have the utensils thoroughly cleansed. The conditions ofthe meals were such that a number of men bought their own food, which saved them from the sickness which a number of unfortunate men have to suffer in the form of dysentery. This disease first started on Sunday, the 14th May, and about 60 men were taken to base hospital and a steady stream of men was at the Resident Medical Officer’s tent every day until the last camp. Out of twenty odd men in the hand, seven turned out to play the guard on. On Wednesday, the 17th, every mess orderly, permanent, was also stricken. Headquarterswing men were transferred to other companies’ huts to make room for the sick men. A continuous stream of men was constantly going to the latrines, which certainly would be the breeding place of any malignant disease. Such places as the latrines, showers and washing facilities should be renewed without further delay. The mess tables were wiped with a rag which failed to take the grease off. A fire was situated close to the mess hall, from which soot, &c, kept blowing in on our meals while we were eating. This camp, which may have been successful, was a dismal failure. in the eyes of men and not until proper organization of feeding and cleaning arrangements is made will they succeed. The abovementioned facts are what I found at the camp, and can be vouched for by many in the 15th/20th Battalion.

That statement is borne out by several other members of the same battalion, and by sergeants of the Army Medical Corps. I attach no blame to the Minister, but if the charges are true, those responsible for such conditions should be taken to task.

Mr GREEN:
Kalgoorlie

.- Of late I have repeatedly asked in this House for information regarding the salary and expenses paid to Sir Ernest Fisk, managing director of Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited. The Commonwealth Government holds a controlling interest in this company. Under an agreement dated the 28th March, 1922, the Commonwealth paid £375,000 15s. for a controlling interest in the company, this representing a payment pf 15s. a share on 500,001 shares, out of a total of 1,000,000 shares. The only condition on which the Government permitted private enterprise to carry on the business of wireless communication, which should have been a public utility like telephones and telegraphs, was that the Government itself should have a controlling interest in the enterprise. It was believed by the Parliament of the day that it would exercise control over the activities of the company, and, with that idea, two members of the board were nominated by the Government, the right honorable William Morris Hughes, who is still on the board, and Mr. F. Strahan, secretary to the Prime Minister’s Department, who was appointed at a later date. Although I asked my first question on the 19th May, the reply was not received until just recently. I do not blame the Prime Minister for that, because I know that the company was bluffing him as long as it could. Notwithstanding the fact that the Commonwealth holds more than half the shares, the company stated that at a meeting of directors, it would be decided whether or not information regarding (the salary and expenses paid to Sir Ernest Fisk would be made known to this Parliament. The meeting of the board was held on the 29th May, and the reply furnished to me by the Prime Minister stated -

The majority of the board of the Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited is Unwilling that details of that kind should become a matter of public knowledge.

Why this hush-hush policy? .What is there to hide? The statement continued -

The company is incorporated in the State of New South Wales, and the Companies Act of 1936 of that State, though it provides that accounts of public companies have to contain certain particulars, including the total amount paid to the directors as remuneration for their services, expressly excludes from this provision the remuneration paid to a managing director of a company. I am, however, able to say that the amount paid to Sir Ernest Fisk has been communicated confidentially to me, and that, in my opinion, having regard to the nature of the business of the company, and the work done by Sir Ernest Fisk, it is not unreasonable.

No mention is made of expenses in that reply. It is in the interests of the Prime Minister himself that the total amount paid to this officer should be revealed to this Parliament. This is more than a public company, because the Commonwealth has a controlling interest in it. We should never have allowed wireless to become the preserve of a company. I am not suggesting that that point is relevant to this matter, but I mention it because this gentleman is continually booming himself in the press. This company has undertaken the manufacture of receiving sets, although, I feel sure, it was never contemplated by the Government of the day that the company should operate in that sphere. Furthermore, it has been due to representations made by this company and others that a high import duty has been placed upon wireless valves which makes it impossible to import a wireless set from any country, although it may be much more modern than any set made by Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited. Whilst I do not make any imputation against the Prime Minister, I suggest that there is something sinister in the general attitude of this company towards this Parliament. When I was PostmasterGeneral I tried to secure information of this kind from the company, and I was treated more cavalierly than has been the case on this occasion. Senator Gibson, also, when he was PostmasterGeneral before myself, attempted to get this information, and was treated iti ‘ similar fashion. In fact, the attitude of the company towards Ministers became a joke in the Public Service. The salary of each public servant is published in the Estimates; but, apparently, that gentleman is immune from any such disclosure. It it any wonder that he does himself pretty well? Mr. Strahan, if he knows, cannot give us this information, whilst the AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Hughes) is as dumb as an oyster on the matter. Is it not possible to force this company to disclose to the Auditor-General what this man receives? The Auditor-General’s report dealing with this matter simply reveals that, according ito a public statement issued by the company - that, I point out, it is obliged to issue in order to be listed on the stock exchange - the Commonwealth Government has put so much money into the company, but apart from this gentleman’s share of dividends it is impossible to say what he receives. I am sure that his salary is twice that paid to the Director of Posts and Telegraphs, although the latter is charged with a far greater responsibility. Recently this gentleman returned from a trip to the Old Country by the Orient liner Orcades., on which he took one of two special suites for which accommodation he must have paid at least £1,000. The Government has a right to know whether such expense was met by his company. The Prime Minister should stand up to this gentleman, and direct the Government’s representatives on the board, whose hands, I am aware, are now tied in the matter, to make known to the Government how much this man is drawing, not only in salary but also by way of the princely expenses which, i am sure, he allows himself.

Mr SHEEHAN:
Cook

.- I wish to make a few observations on replies furnished by the Minister for Defence (Mr. Street) to questions which I asked relative to contracts let by -the Contract Board. The first question was -

Has tlie Government received protests from the Felt Hatters Union, Sydney, complaining that the Arm of Hatcraft Proprietary Limited, is not observing the terms and conditions in. regard to contracts let to it by the Government?

The answer was -

Yes

Since 1934, when the firm obtained itsfirst contract, the union has maderepeated protests to the various Ministers and to the Defence Department, ‘but has not yet received a satisfactory answer. This firm continues to obtain a share of all contracts.

The second question was -

Has the Government investigated thesecharges; if so, what is the nature of the investigating officer’s report?

The answer was -

Yes. The investigation officer’s report discloses that the statements of the union werenot sustained.

The inspecting officers have no knowledge of the skilled branches of the felt hat industry. The Defence Department hasadmitted in correspondence with theunion that it has not one officercapable of distinguishing between military work and civilian work until over one-half of the manufacturing operation has been completed. Any inspection carried out by the inspecting officers has been one-sided. Thedepartment sends its officer to inspect thework. Having no specialized knowledgeof the industry, he makes inquiries from the men at the factory, who inform him that they are satisfied with their conditions, .and that they are entitled to dothe work they are doing. On this assurance being given, the officer is apparentlysatisfied that all is in order. The department has consistently refused the union’s request to be allowed to send a representative to attend during inspections. The union has offered the department the services of a fully qualified’ journeyman felt hatter to carry out the inspection free of charge. Thedepartment will not attempt tobring this firm into line with al! other firms, by insisting on the observance of award rates .and conditions. It continues to send along inspecting officers who have no knowledge of what to look for, and who are, therefore, unable to detect any breaches of the award. That,, no doubt, is what the department desires.

A practical roan would hare been able to detect a breach of the award immediately ; the inspecting officers of the department have not been able to detect one breach of the award since 1934. The third question was -

Is this firm observing award rates and conditions?

The answer was -

Yes

This firm is not at present observing the terms and conditions of the Felt Hatters’ award, nor has it done so in the past. It commits breach after breach of the award under the very eyes of the inspecting officer, and because of his lack of knowledge of the industry is never detected.

The fourth question was -

Does the Government insist that, in connexion with all contracts let by it, award rates and conditions shall be observed?

The answer was -

Yes

If that is so, why does Hatcraft Proprietary Limited refuse to allow an inspection of its premises by union representatives ? If award rates and conditions are being observed, what has it to bc afraid of? It would appear either that this firm and the inspecting officers are acting in collusion, or that the inspecting officers are ignorant of the manufacturing process.

The fifth question was -

How many journeymen felt hatters are in the employ of Hatcraft Proprietary Limited?

The answer furnished was, “ Ten “. That answer is incorrect; evidently it is intended to protect this firm. The Department -of Defence stands convicted on. its own admission, because this firm employs only three journeymen felt hatters and has never had more than three in its employ. These are the only men who are entitled to work on the skilled branches of the trade. This answer calls for a departmental inquiry, for the Minister must now be convinced that the charges laid by the union are correct. He should investigate this deliberate lie.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

Mr SHEEHAN:

– It is a deliberate untruth. That is the information which has been supplied to me.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order 1 Obviously if the remark would be disorderly if made by the honorable member it is equally disorderly if made by a person supplying information to the honorable member.

Mr SHEEHAN:

– The sixth question was -

What is the rate of delivery per week from this firm?

The answer supplied to me was- -

The most recent contract allotted to the firm provides for delivery at the rate of 1,000 hats per week.

This answer proves beyond doubt the union’s charges that this firm is not abiding by the award, for it would take between ten and twelve journeymen felt hatters to do the skilled work needed to supply the Defence Department with 1,000 hats a week. It would appear that the answer given to my fifth question was an endeavour to provide the firm with a good answer, because both the Defence Department and the firm knew that it requires more than three journeymen to do 83 dozen hats a week. The union requests the Minister to inquire of any manufacture of felt hats whether it would be possible for three journeymen felt hatters, doing all of the skilled work of the trade, to do 83 dozen, or 1,000 hats a week. The Felt Hatters Union claims that its statement can be substantiated at an inquiry. It is extremely dissatisfied with the refusal of the Defence Department to hold an inquiry into the activities of Hatcraft Proprietary Limited. It claims that an investigation would show that its complaint is justified.

Mr STREET:
Minister for Defence · Corangamite · UAP

– in reply - The honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. George Lawson) referred to the conditions in the military camp of the 15th/26th Battalion at Enoggera last month. I spoke to the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. Francis), who attended the camp during a portion of the period that the men were there, and whilst he admitted that there was some sickness among the men, he assured me, from his own experience and from conversations with other members of the unit who were in camp, that the conditions were not as set out by the honorable member for Brisbane. However, I consider the statement to be so serious that I shall have immediate inquiries made, in order to satisfy myself, and, I hope, the honorable gentleman also, that the statements made to him were grossly exaggerated.

The honorable member for Kalgoorlie (Mr. Green) referred to the salary and allowances paid to Sir Ernest Fisk. I shall bring his remarks under the notice of the Prime Minister (Mr. Menzies), who may himself reply to the honorable gentleman.

The matter referred to by the honorable member for Cook (Mr. Sheehan) has been under my notice on several occasions during the last six months. I have suggested to Mr. Devereaux, secretary of the Felt Hatters Union, who, I imagine, supplied the honorable member with the material for his remarks, that the remedy is in his own hands if only he will take the firm to court. He will not do so, however. Nor will he give to me any reason for not doing so. As the firm has not been cited, obviously the union’s representative is not allowed to inspect its works. I have had minute investigations of the activities of this firm, and the result in. every instance has convinced me that it is obeying the award. I have discussed this matter with Mr. Devereaux, and with the honorable member for Melbourne Ports (Mr. Holloway) who has interested himself in it. Mr. Devereaux has endeavoured to raise the technicality that certain men are not journeymen. He has also told me that it is impossible for any firm to compete with the prices quoted by Hatcraft Proprietary Limited, and pay award rates. For two or three contracts the tender of Hatcraft Proprietary Limited was the lowest, but for the last contract that firm was not the lowest tenderer; it secured a portion of that contract only because the lowest tenderer could not do the whole of the work. Other tenderers quoted prices which were so close to that of Hatcraft Proprietary Limited as to leave no appreciable difference between them. If this firm has done nothing else, it has succeeded in bringing down the prices of these defence requirements. I regret the somewhat intemperate language used by the honorable member in describing officers of my department. I am sure that on reflection he will realize that those officers make their investigations impartially, and have nothing to gain by allowing awards to be flouted. The industrial officers are as keen to see awards complied with as is the honorable gentleman. I have investigated this complaint so often that I am of the opinion that no useful purpose would be served by conducting a further investigation. As I have said, the remedy lies in the hands of the union, but it will not take the matter to court.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 1225

PAPERS

The following papers were presented : -

Nauru - Ordinance of 1939 -

No. 1 - Motor Traffic Ordinance amendment.

Commonwealth Public Service Act - Appointment of J. Johnston, Department of the Interior.

House adjourned at 11.15 p.m.

page 1225

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Sydney General Post Office

Mr Curtin:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

n asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Has the Government any knowledge that tenderers for terra cotta facing for the General Post Office building at Sydney were subjected to price discrimination for the same quality and quantity of terra cotta by Wunderlich Limited, who have a monopoly of supply of terra cotta, and that Wunderlich Limited admit that the discrimination amounted to £2,632 in a total price of £10,522?
Is this discrimination contrary to public policy, and also the public interest, as applied to a Commonwealth, building?
Has the Master Builders Association appointed a special committee to investigate the matter!
In view of these disclosures will he now undertake that the House will be afforded an opportunity to consider notice of motion No. 1, standing in the name nf the Deputy Leader of the Opposition?

Mr Menzies:
UAP

– I refer the honorable the Leader of the Opposition to my statement in the House of Representatives on the 1st June, that a royal commission will be appointed to inquire into and report upon the circumstances in which a tender was accepted for additions to the General Post Office, Sydney, and a contract signed in relation thereto.

Invalid and Old-age Pensions.

Mr Holloway:

y asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice -

In view of the repeated requests from old-age pensioners to be permitted to earn an increased amount of money without decreasing their pensions, will he give consideration to increasing the present maximum amount of 12s. 6d.t
Will he also consider permitting the automatic adjustment provision based upon the cost of living figures to operate so that fi shall remain the minimum and shall be increased to meet any higher cost of living index figure?

Sir Frederick Stewart:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows: -

As the Government proposes to investigate the practicability of introducing a much wider scheme of superannuation pensions, it is not proposed to re-open the existing oldage pension legislation at present.
The provisions of the Invalid and Oldage Pensions Act relating to variations of the rate of pension based on price index numbers, were repealed in September, 1937. The present maximum rate of pension (£1 a week) is equal to the highest rate at any time paid since the inception of invalid and oldage pensions in 1909. In these circumstances, it is regretted that action cannot be taken ou the lines suggested.

Dr Maloney:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

y asked the Minister for Social Services, upon notice -

Can he inform the House in respect of each financial year from 1931-32 to 1938-39 (to date) the total sum paid to old-age and/or invalid pensioners residing in the Victorian Benevolent Home for the Aged and Infirm at Royal Park, near Melbourne?
Can he say how many pensioners were resident there in each of those years?
If such pensions were collected by some one other than the pensioner himself, can he say by whom in each year the pensions were collected, and give the name, address and occupation of the collector?
What deduction is made from each pensioner resident in that house for his weekly maintenance. If such deduction has varied over the years referred to, will he state the deduction made for each year?

Sir Frederick Stewart:
UAP

– Inquiries are being made to ascertain if the information is available.

Interstate Freight Transport

Mr Drakeford:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

d asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

ls it a fact that the interstate shipping services now convey over 2,000,000 tons of freight annually between New South Wales and Victoria?
What is the actual tonnage conveyed annually by rail between New South Wales and Victoria via (a) Tocumwal and (!>) Albury?
Have any plans been made for the railways to undertake the carriage of the whole of the freight in tho event of a national emergency necessitating the port of Sydney being closed? “

Mr Street:
UAP

– The answers, to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

Statistics show that tonnage shipped interstate from New South Wales ports approximate 2,000,000 tons annually. Nodirectional statistics are compiled.
Information at the disposal of the Defence Department is that approximately 68,000 tons are conveyed by rail between New South Wale* and Victoria via Albury and Tocumwal combined.
Plans have been made to deal with situations such as that envisaged by the honorable member.

Defence: Transportation of Troops

Mr Drakeford:

d asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

What length of time would be occupied, under present conditions in moving a division of troops by rail from Victoria to Queensland?
What length of time would be occupied in moving a division of troops from Victoria toQueensland under standard gauge conditions?
What length of time would be occupied under present conditions in moving a divisionof troops from Victoria to Sydney or Newcastle ?
What length of time would be occupied in moving a division of troops by rail from Victoria to Sydney or Newcastle under standard gauge conditions?

Mr Street:
UAP

– It is not in the interests of national security that information respecting railway capacities for military movements should be made public.

Liquid Fuels

Mr Mulcahy:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

y asked the Minister for Supply and Development, upon notice -

Has he received correspondence from representatives of a company which is desirous of erecting a plant to secure oil from coal in the Camden area in New South Wales?
If bo, does tlie Government propose to take any action in regard to this proposition?

Mr Casey:
Minister for Supply and Development · CORIO, VICTORIA · UAP

– Representations have been made by Associated Motor Transport, of New South Wales, and Mr. C. Kemp, of Ocean House, Sydney, with a view to securing Commonwealth assistance in connexion with the granting of a Crown coal lease in the Burragorang Valley, New South Wales. These interests intimated that it was intended, if the lease were granted to produce oil from coal, and it is understood that the low temperature carbonization process would be employed for that purpose. As mining, except within the territories controlled by tile Commonwealth, is a State function, the Premier of New South Wales was approached in this matter. The Premier stated that ‘the main products to be derived from the lease would be coal, or coke which would displace coal, and as the policy of his Government was not to grant further Crown leases to mine for coal, the application made by Associated Motor Transport could not be approved. This information was conveyed to the interests mentioned and they were told that the Commonwealth Hydrogenation Committee, a body comprising technical experts of the Commonwealth and the States, reported in 1937, “ that there is little hope of the low temperature carbonization process proving of real practical value in the provision of Australia’s requirements of oil on a large scale unless a huge market for ‘ semicoke the prime product,- can be found.”

This view was recently endorsed by the Commonwealth Standing Committee on Liquid Fuels, which stated -

In the opinion of your committee the production of oil from coal by. low temperature carbonization is unattractive. The quantities of petrol likely to be derived by this process are small, while without greater density of population no sufficient market can be found for the prime product of the process - smokeless fuel - to admit of large-scale operations.

Postmaster-General

Mr Forde:

e asked the Postmaster- General, upon notice -

Is it a fact that he is a vice-president of the Postal Kates Reduction League?
If so, does lie regard this position as inconsistent with the responsibilities of his present portfolio?
If so, does be propose to resign his portfolio as Postmaster-General?

Mr Harrison:
UAP

– The answer to the honorable member’s questions is, “No.”

Amalgamated Wireless .(Australasia) Limited : Salary and Expenses of Sir Ernest Fisk

Mr Green:

n asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

Did the honorable member for Kalgoorlie, on tlie 19th May, ask for information concerning the annual salary and certain expenses drawn by Sir Ernest Fisk, as managingdirector of Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited, in which company the Commonwealth Government has a controlling interest?
Did the Government directors on the board obtain this information at the meeting of the board on Monday, the 29th May?

Mr Menzies:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are’ as follows : -

Yes.
The majority of the board of Amalgamated Wireless (Australasia) Limited is unwilling that details of this kind should become a matter of public knowledge. It points out that the company is incorporated in the State of New South Wales, and that the Companies Act 193(i, of that State, although it provides that the accounts of public companies have to contain certain particulars, including the total amount paid to the directors as remuneration for their services, expressly excludes from this provision thu remuneration paid to a managing-director of a company. I am, however, able to say that the amount paid to Sir Ernest Fisk has been communicated confidentially to me, and that in my opinion, having regard to the nature ot the business of the company and the work done by Sir Ernest Fisk, it is not unreasonable. the intention of the Government to review the decision made by the previous Government with regard to these matters.

Dairying Industry

Mr Forde:

e asked the Minister representing the Minister for Commerce, upon notice -

How many dairy farmers are there in Australia?
How many persons are employed on wages in the dairying industry?
How many persons are (a) directly, and (6) indirectly, dependent on the dairying industry?
What Was the production of butter in (a) 1928, and (b) 1938?
What quantity was (a) consumed locally, and (6) exported in each of the years - mentioned ?

Sir Frederick Stewart:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows :-*-

The 1933 census disclosed that there were 53,314 dairy farmers in Australia at that date.
The 1933 census disclosed that there were 31,994 persons employed on wages, some on a part-time basis only, on dairy farms. 3. (a) 116,958 persons (1933 census) were directly dependent as bread-winners on production, processing and distribution of dairy products. Assuming 1.29 dependent persons a bread-winner (the average of the 1033 census), the total number of persons dependent on the industry would be 267,834; (b) not available.
1927-28, 125,375 tons; 1937-38, 191,484 tons. 5. (a) 1927-28, 84,218 tons; 1937-38. 103,398 tons. (6) 1927-28, 44,271 tons; 1937-38, 88,101 tons.

Interstate Telegram Rates

Mr Harrison:
UAP

n. - On the 2nd June, the honorable member for Watson (Mr. Jennings) asked the following question, upon notice : -

Does the abolition of the interstate rate on telegrams apply to the Cabinet decisions at Hobart- -namely, (a) the double rate for telegrams sent on Sundays and holidays, and (b) the press rates to broadcasting stations for matter to be broadcast, and also to press interstate telegrams?

I am now in a position to inform the honorable member that the Government’s re-affirmation of the Hobart decision to reduce rates in respect of interstate telegrams did not. apply to the matters referred to in (a) and (&). It is not

Farmers’ Debt Adjustment

Mr Menzies:
UAP

s. - On Wednesday, the 31st May, the honorable member for Indi (Mr. McEwen) asked the Treasurer the following questions, upon notice : -

Is there to be an allocation to State governments for farmers’ debt adjustment from the present federal loan?
If so, what amount is to be allotted to each State?
Does any State now hold unexpended any sum previously granted by the Commonwealth Government for this purpose?
If so, will he furnish the particulars?

The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows: -

By unanimous decision of the Loan Council at its meeting in April, 1938, it was decided that, of the amount to be borrowed for the financial year 1938-39, for all governments, £2,000,000 be allocated to the Commonwealth for the purposes of grants to the States for farmers’ debt adjustment. This amount was partly raised by the loan in February last, and the balance is now being raised by the current loan.
The allocation for the current financial year is: -

The proportions of the above grants unexpended by the States at the 31st May, 1939, including the amounts still to be made available by the Commonwealth, are as follows: -

The whole of these unexpended balances are already committed to expenditure or will .be committed when all claims in hand have been examined. The balance of the approved allocation will be made available to the States aB required.

See answer to No. 3.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 5 June 1939, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1939/19390605_reps_15_160/>.

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House of Representatives 5 June 1939

WILMOTELECTORAL DIVISION

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr Archie Cameron:

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr Archie Cameron:

Mr SPEAKER:

QUESTION

FLYING BOAT GUBA

Mr FORDE:CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · UAP

QUESTION

NEW ZEALAND POTATOES

Mr SCHOLFIELD:WANNON, VICTORIA

QUESTION

WATERSIDE WORKERS

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:Attorney-General · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:

Mr LAZZARINI:WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:

Mr MARTENS:HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:

QUESTION

DUTIES ON IRON AND STEEL

Mr NOCK:RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JOHN LAWSON:MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

QUESTION

TELEPHONE COMM UNIC ATION WITH TASMANIA

Mr HARRISON:Minister for Repatriation · WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

QUESTION

MILITIA FORCES

Mr FRANCIS:MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr STREET:Minister for Defence · CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA · UAP

Sir CHARLES MARR:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr STREET:

Sir CHARLES MARR:

Mr STREET:

QUESTION

EXPORT OF APPLES

Mr FROST:FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:Minister for Health · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

QUESTION

UNEMPLOYMENT

Mr BRENNAN:BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:UAP

QUESTION

NEW BROADCASTING STATION

Mr CONELAN:GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr HARRISON:UAP

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Mr McEWEN:INDI, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:UAP

QUESTION

WHEAT INDUSTRY

Mr MENZIES:UAP

QUESTION

AUDITOR-GENERAL’S REPORT

Mr JOLLY:LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:UAP

QUESTION

DEPARTMENT OF SUPPLY AND DEVELOPMENT

Mr BARNARD:BASS, TASMANIA

Mr MENZIES:UAP

Mr Holloway:

Mr MENZIES:

QUESTION

SYDNEY GENERAL POST OFFICE

Mr FORDE:

Mr MENZIES:UAP

QUESTION

ACCOMMODATION IN CHAMBER

Mr GARDNER:ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT; UAP from 1931

Mr SPEAKER:

QUESTION

INTERSTATE TELEGRAM RATES

Mr COLLINS:HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HARRISON:UAP

House of Representatives
5 June 1939

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:
Prime Minister · KOOYONG, VICTORIA · UAP

Mr SCHOLFIELD:
WANNON, VICTORIA

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr GEORGE LAWSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · FLP; ALP from 1936

Mr LAZZARINI:
WERRIWA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MARTENS:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

Mr NOCK:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr HARRISON:
Minister for Repatriation · WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr FRANCIS:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr STREET:
Minister for Defence · CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA · UAP

Sir CHARLES MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FROST:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA

Sir FREDERICK STEWART:
Minister for Health · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr BRENNAN:
BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr CONELAN:
GRIFFITH, QUEENSLAND

Mr HARRISON:
UAP

Mr McEWEN:
INDI, VICTORIA

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr JOLLY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr BARNARD:
BASS, TASMANIA

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr GARDNER:
ROBERTSON, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT; UAP from 1931

Mr COLLINS:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HARRISON:
UAP

Mr ANTHONY:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr STREET:
UAP

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr SHEEHAN:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr WARD:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr CLARK:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr STREET:
UAP

Mr SPENDER:
Minister without portfolio assisting the Treasurer · WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr POLLARD:
BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

Mr STREET:
UAP

Mr STREET:
UAP

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr MENZIES:
UAP

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

Mr NAIRN:
Perth