House of Representatives
18 September 1936

14th Parliament · 1st Session



Mr. Speaker (Hon. G. J. Bell) took the chair at 10.30 a.m., and read prayers.

page 317

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Mr. Lyons) agreed to -

That the House, at its rising, adjourn until Wednesday next at 3 p.m.

page 317

QUESTION

SUBSIDIZED SHIPPING IN THE PACIFIC

Mr E F HARRISON:
BENDIGO, VICTORIA · UAP

– Will the Minister for Commerce indicate the present position of the negotiations for the safeguarding of Australia’s sea-borne trade is the Pacific?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
Minister for Commerce · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– Negotiations have been carried on in London between the Governments of the United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. The stage was reached which necessitated the preparation of complete facts in relation to the matter. The subject was referred to the Imperial Shipping Committee constituted by the Imperial Conference of 1926, and the various Governments are now awaiting the summary of facts collated by that committee.

page 317

QUESTION

NAVAL WELFARE COMMITTEES

Mr WARD:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Yesterday, in reply to a question which I asked him, the Minister for Defence informed me that Welfare Committees are not now functioning aboard naval vessels because they are not desired, and, further, that naval ratings have every opportunity through other channels to bring before the authorities any complaints they may wish to make.

I now invite the honorable gentleman to say by whom the continuance of those committees is not desired, and to give details as to the other channels which are available to ratings for the making of complaints.

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for Defence · WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– In my desire to supply the fullest information immediately I stated what was my recollection of the matter. I shall inquire into the exact position, and advise the honorable member in regard to it.

page 317

QUESTION

COUNCIL OF DEFENCE

Mr STREET:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

– Will the Minister for Defence state whether the reconstituted Council of Defence co-opted in its recent deliberations any additional members, as he foreshadowed it might do? If so, what are the names ofsuch members?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– The additional co-opted members who deliberate with the heads of the respective services as the Council of Defence are Sir Harry Chauvel, Sir Brudenell White, and Sir Thomas Blamey.

page 317

TRADE DIVERSION

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties · Henty · UAP

by leave - The licensing system announced to Parliament on the 22nd May of this year, which had for its purpose the diversion of the source of origin of a large section of imports from overseas, has now been in practice for nearly four months. Its effects, however, do not actually extend over that period, as the Government, with a view to avoiding as far as possible the dislocation of local industry and business, has given importers the opportunity to secure, subject to certain reservations as to time, such supplies as were on order . with overseas firms prior to the introduction of the restrictions.

I am pleased to inform the House that this new diversion policy, in its results over the last few months, promises to prove highly successful. Its initiation, however, proved extremely difficult in administration. Naturally, almost every importer of goods which came under license presented a case in favour of exemption, and the work thrown upon the officers of the Customs Department, both at head-quarters in

Canberra and inthe various States, has been very exacting. As far as was consistent with complete adherence to the policy, the Government has endeavoured to carry out the administration with as much consideration as possible to business and industry generally. If there have been cases of individual hardship - which I shall not venture to deny - they have been due to the fact that it has proved impossible in the case of many applications to make exemptions without establishing costly precedents. If a scheme of this kind was to succeed, departmental firmness was absolutely essential. On the whole importers, even those who have been embarrassed, have shown a gratifying disposition to cooperate with the Government. In administration, a distinction has been observed between capital and consumption goods. In certain cases, where immediate curtailment of parts essential for the completion of manufacture in Australia would have interfered with production in this country, the restrictions have been relaxed in some degree to cover the transition period. This applies particularly in those cases in which Australian sources of supply were not available.

Although it is yet too early to measure the effect of the policy in terms of industrial expansion in the Commonwealth, a careful preliminary survey makes it clear that many branches of local industry will enjoy early and substantial expansion because of it. Of still more importance, perhaps, is the fact that the policy is definitely leading to the establishment of a number of new industries within Australia. In this direction, the most important development to date ‘is the decision which I am authorized to announce, of the great Armco Company of America, in conjunction with John Lysaght (Australia) Limited, to proceed immediately with plans for the manufacture in the Commonwealth of special steel sheets such as auto body, commercial panel, enamelling and cold-rolled deep drawing sheets. In this enterprise, a capital of approximately £1,000,000 will be invested. These are sheets which are now imported for the manufacture of the motor car body. The present annual value of imports, which will cease’ with the local establishment of this industry, exceeds £400,000. Ishould say that John Lysaght (Australia) Limited had already made the decision to expand its activities in Australia before the announcement of the Government’s diversion scheme. The Armco Company, too, had previously given consideration to the matter, but in its ease the diversion scheme was the deciding factor. This famous company, which has a number of plants in America, has also great works in the United Kingdom, Germany, France, and Italy. Its establishment in the Commonwealth will mark a further notable stage in our engineering development.

Another happy outcome of the policy is to be found in the refrigerating and air-conditioning industry. I understand that the investment of new capital in this field will be approximately £700,000.

Wide interest has also been stimulated by the policy in the wireless industry, which is now definitely assured of further parts production, including the production of wireless yalves. In this ease, the new capital investment will run into several hundred thousand pounds.

With respect to the Government’s decision to bring about the manufacture in Australia of the motor engine and chassis frame with accessories, it was not anticipated that a definite decisionto manufacture would be made within a few months by overseas companies. I am, however, in a position to inform the House that very keen interest in engine and chassis making generally within the Commonwealth is being shown by a few overseas companies of world-wide reputation, and that the research entered into by these companies, which is still proceeding, is most comprehensive and detailed in character. There appears little doubt that the Government’s objective to bring about the manufacture of the complete motor car, less, perhaps, a few parts at the outset of operations, will be achieved within the near future. Manufacturing inquiry has also covered a fair range of motorcar parts which are now being imported.

A number of miscellaneous industries of somewhat less importance than those which I have mentioned will be established in Australia. At the moment I do not propose to give details of them, as some of the parties concerned do not wish their intentions to be made public

On whole, the policy is shaping excellently, both in its promise to Australian industry and employment and also as a heavy contributor to the essential overseas financial balance.

Mr CURTIN:
Fremantle

.- by leave - It is quite true that four months have elapsed since Parliament had given to it an outline of the Government’s trade diversion policy, and certain tariff schedules which have since operated were laid upon the table of this House. The Minister (Sir Henry Gullett) has toldus this morning that a very considerable degree of success has attended the application of that policy. I noticed that he made reference only to that part of the policy which concerns the adverse trade balance which Australia hitherto has had with the United States of America, and that no reference whatever was made to the effects of the policy upon the general trade of Australia. My present purpose is merely to suggest that so much argument has been advanced by the Government in support of this policy, in places other than this Parliament, that it would appear to be reasonable for the Parliament now to be invited to consider the merits of it. For the time being, I pass no judgment upon the merits of it. I remind the honorable gentleman and the Prime Minister, however, that much of their criticism of a previous government was based upon the contention that tariff policy was being applied as the result of executive decision rather than as the outcome of parliamentary enactment. They also referred to the fact that in certain instances action was taken without any inquiry or recommendation having been made by the Tariff Board. It must, I think, be clear that the Prime Minister is pledged in broad principle to refer tariff matters to the Tariff Board. I do not say that that is always reasonable, proper or necessary. But he at least has insisted that it is the proper course; and in greater particularity Ministers who sit beside him have been adamant in their contention that there ought to be no alterations of duty without reference to the Tariff Board. I remind the Government that its adherence to the Ottawa agreement pledged it to refer to the Tariff Board all proposals which involve increases of duty. Members of the Government advanced that contention in a quite recent debate in this House. Apparently their policy is merely one of criticism of members on this side of the House.

Sir Henry Gullett:

– This party did not impose the prohibitions and surcharges introduced by the party with which the honorable member is associated.

Mr CURTIN:

– The difference between the policies of the United Australia party and the Labour party is that the Scullin Government applied its tariff proposals without discrimination as between the various countries. In the present instance, the policy of’ the Government is far worse than that of the Scullin Government, in that some traders in Australia will be permitted to continue trading with certain other countries, whilst the great mass of traders will be denied equality of opportunity to compete even with traders in Australia the inequity of this position is a matter with which the Government should deal later. I challenge the Prime Minister, in order to preserve parliamentary control over the laws operating in regard to the trade of Australia, to permit the tariff schedules to be dealt with by this House. The earlier he does so, the less necessity will there be for broadcasting speeches to the public, for the disclosure of confidential information to wool-growers, or for asking for leave to make statements in this House which cannot be generally debated.

Mr LYONS:
Prime Minister · Wilmot · UAP

by leave - I rise only to deal with one aspect of the matter raised by the Leader of the Opposition. It is not necessary for him to challenge me to bring forward tariff schedules. As soon as this House has disposed of matters that are more urgent than the one to which hehas referred, it will be given full opportunity to debate the schedules.

page 319

QUESTION

ENGLAND-AUSTRALIA AIR SERVICE

Mr JENNINGS:
WATSON, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Can the Minister for Defence indicate the carrying capacity of the flying-boats proposed to be employed in the England-Australia air service, as compared with that of the aeroplanes now in use? Will arrangements be made for the seaplanes to be accommodated at Cook’s River, near Mascot, or in the Sydney Harbour, and will the new vessels be fitted with shortwave wireless equipment?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– The details to which the honorable member has referred have not yet been discussed, but will, of course, be considered at a later stage. The discussions at the moment are confined chiefly to general principles, but I shall endeavour to ascertain the carrying capacity of the respective aircraft.

page 320

QUESTION

WIRELESS BROADCASTING

POLITICAL Addresses From National Stations.

Mr CURTIN:

– Has the attention of the Minister representing the Postmaster General been called to the fact that Mr. W. J. Thomas, leader of a recent delegation to Russia, and editor of the official organ of the Friends of the Soviet Union, which the Government is trying to have declared illegal, has been provided with two sessions on A-class radio stations to make propaganda speeches? Is he further aware that Professor John Anderson, a reputed member of the Fourth International, was provided with time last night on an A-class station to reply to Mr. Thomas, and to put forth propaganda? In view of the fact that these gentlemen, as well as members of the United Australia party and the Country party, have been provided with broadcasting time by the Australian Broadcasting Commission, will the Minister inform the House as to the Government’s policy in regard to political addresses over national stations, as I have not been able to discover any instance of a member of the Labour party having been accorded the same privilege?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– I shall supply the honorable member with detailed replies to the first two portions of his question, when the information has been obtained from the commission which controls these matters. It is known, I think, by every honorable member that, ever since we have .had a national system of broadcasting, it has been the recognized practice to allow official statements of a non-partisan character by the Prime Minister and other members of the Government to be made over the national network for the information of the people of Australia.

page 320

QUESTION

TRADE WITH NEW ZEALAND

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– WU1 the Minister for Defence state whether his projected mission to New Zealand covers the re-opening of the negotiations with the New Zealand Government on the subject of the embargo upon the importation into the dominion of Australian fruit and vegetables? If not, will the Minister suggest to the Government that advantage should be taken of his visit to New Zealand to improve the deplorable trade conditions obtaining between the two countries, seeing that those conditions are greatly accentuated by the embargo ?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– 1 said yesterday that the principal object of my visit is to discuss the EnglandAustralia air service, but I shall be glad to do anything I can with respect to other matters that may improve the relations between New Zealand and the Commonwealth, subject to instructions from Cabinet in that regard.

page 320

QUESTION

PENSIONERS IN INSTITUTIONS

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES · FLP; ALP from 1936

– In view of the statement made by the Treasurer last night that old-age pensioners living in benevolent institutions receive only a portion of the full pension, and that the Commonwealth Government is not responsible for their upkeep in those institutions, and in view of the further statement that when persons have obtained the pension prior to going into an institution the Commonwealth is so responsible, does not the Treasurer consider that the procedure adopted is wrong? How many of such cases come under the control of the department ?

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · CORIO, VICTORIA · UAP

– The practice which I mentioned at an earlier stage has always been observed, and was adopted as a means of dividing responsibility as between the Commonwealth and the State governments, in that the Commonwealth Government has never assumed responsibility for destitution. Persons who enter these institutions, and subsequently become of pensionable age, receive a pension of us. a week, and the institution is left to carry the cost of their maintenance. That, I think, is not an unfair division of responsibility as between the States and the Commonwealth. I shall inquire whether particulars as to the number of persons in the two classes could be obtained without undue cost.

page 321

QUESTION

AIRPORT NEGOTIATIONS

Mr HOLT:
FAWKNER, VICTORIA

– In view of the projected visit of the Minister for Defence to NewZealand, and in order to prevent delay in the Fishermen’s Bend airport negotiations, will the Prime Minister, when in Melbourne next week-end, confer with the Premier of Victoria in connexion with the matter?

Mr LYONS:
UAP

– I shall endeavour to make arrangements for a continuation of the negotiations without interruption.

page 321

QUESTION

CATTLE INDUSTRY

Mr BLAIN:
NORTHERN TERRITORY

– In view of tho important investigations made by the Minister for Commerce at Singapore, for the purpose of fostering trade in live cattle from Darwin, and in view of the fact that the people at Singapore are asking for delivery of cattle there in November, will the Minister treat as urgent the necessity for forwarding a grant to the Primary Producers Board at Darwin, to enable the cattle-growers to be organized, and holding grounds to be secured, so that this trade will not be lost for ever?

Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP

– The subject of assistance to the meat industry generaally is under the consideration of the Government. The first step taken was the creation of the Meat Board, whose advice is being sought on the matter.

page 321

QUESTION

TREASURY PRACTICE

Misdirected Document

Mr WARD:

– What procedure is adopted by the Monetary and Banking Commission in securing evidence from Commonwealth departmental officers? Is a questionnaire forwarded to which replies are to be given? Are the replies of the officers checked, and alterations made, where considered necessary by Mr. Sheehan, Secretary to the Treasury?

Are copies of the evidence to be submitted forwarded to the Treasurer for his approval before being placed before the commission?

Mr CASEY:
UAP

– The commission has been in the habit of circulating questionnaires to certain selected public servants, whose opinion on banking matters is worth having. The officers in question, usually inform me of their proposed replies, but in no instance have I made, or even suggested, any alteration, particularly because their replies are given in a personal capacity, and the Government is in no way responsible for their statements.

Mr Rosevear:

– Why axe the replies submitted to the Treasurer?

Mr CASEY:

– As a matter of courtesy.

Mr WARD:

– The Treasurer has overlooked answering a part of my question. I wish to know whether the replies of departmental officers are checked, and alterations made to them when considered necessary by Mr. Sheehan, Secretary to the Treasury?

Mr CASEY:

– No.

Mr WARD:

– I now ask the Treasurer whether he was furnished yesterday with a copy of the evidence proposed to be submitted to the Royal Commission on Banking and Monetary Reform by Dr. Roland Wilson, Commonwealth Statistician, and whether the envelope in which it was sent contained a covering letter by Dr. Wilson, in which he stated that he was submitting a copy of the evidence to Mr. Sheehan, Secretary to the Treasury, and intimating that he believed that that gentleman would probably “ blue-pencil “ much of it?

Mr CASEY:

– The matters which were the subject of the questionnaire from the banking commission are of considerable interest, not only to Dr. Roland Wilson, the Commonwealth Statistician, but also to the senior officers of the Treasury and myself, between whom such subjects are frequently discussed. In an effort to make the replies as complete and illuminating as possible on the subjects of which I gather the honorable member is aware, Dr. Wilson certainly gave a copy of his proposed reply to the Secretary to the Treasury and myself. It is not a question of “ blue-pencilling “ at alL It is one of getting the replies into the form in which they will be of moat value for the Royal Commission on Banking. For the information of honorable members, I may, perhaps, be allowed to say that the letter of which the honorable member for East Sydney speaks came inadvertently into his hands, although addressed to me at this House. It was evidently opened and perused by the honorable member, for he is aware of its contents. The envelope reached me in an opened condition, although addressed to me personally and marked “ Personal.” The matter it contained was not secret, because it eventually will be made public, and as the point of view of the Commonwealth Statistician. I repeat that no question of “blue-pencilling” is involved. No harm has been done through the honorable member for East Sydney becoming aware of the Commonwealth Statistician’s proposed replies, but it is possible that, as the result of further discussion between the Secretary to the Treasury and myself, Dr. “Wilson’s replies may be made slightly more complete and slightly more illuminating.

Mr WARD:

– I desire to make a personal explanation. It is true, as the Treasurer has said, that the correspondence directed to him came into my hands by mischance. The envelope was opened by me because it was handed to me by the honorable member for Reid (Mr. Gander), who had received it from a messenger. Without looking at the address upon it, I opened it, and I waa unaware that it was not directed to me until I had read through part of the covering letter.

Sir Archdale Parkhill:

– That does not justify the honorable member in making lise of it.

Mr ROSEVEAR:

– And it does not justify tampering with evidence.

Mr WARD:

– In ordinary circumstances I should have refrained from using the information that the letter contained, but I believed that the information was of so much importance that, as a public representative, it was my duty to the people of Australia to make it known. I think no more serious thing could happen in this country than for responsible Ministers and responsible beads of departments to tamper-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order !

Mr WARD:

– With evidence-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order, order!

Mr WARD:

– To be given before a royal commission.

Mr SPEAKER:

– The honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) continued to speak although twice called to order, and in doing so he was guilty of a serious breach of the Standing Orders. I called him to order because he was going far beyond the justifiable limits of a personal explanation; but he practically defied the Chair, and I reprimand him for so doing.

Mr CASEY:

– I desire to make a personal explanation. I did not propose to make any further reference to this subject, because I realized that the communication in question came into the hands of the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. Ward) inadvertently by reason of the fact that the name of my private secretary happens to be the same as that of the honorable member for East Sydney.

Mr Beasley:

– That explains it.

Mr CASEY:

– It certainly explains how the communication came into the honorable member’s hands, but I think he might be expected to have regarded the contents of the envelope as confidential.

Mr GANDER:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I wish to make a personal explanation. I was sitting in my place in this House yesterday when a messenger handed an envelope to me, and said, “ This letter is for Mr. Ward.” I handed the letter to Mr. Ward, who afterwards read it. It had the name of the Treasurer on it, and I afterwards wrote upon it. “>Mr. E. J. Ward, next Treasurer of the Commonwealth.”

page 322

QUESTION

AIRPORT FOR SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr PRICE:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Minister for Defence whether he will make inquiries as to the stage reached in the negotiations for an airport for South Australia? Is the honorable gentleman aware that land is available for .an airport in South Australia, and also for the necessary buildings for the manufacture of aeroplanes there?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
UAP

– I shall be glad to make inquiries into the subject.

page 323

NUFFIELD GIFT

Mr HOLT:

– I notice in the budgetpapers that the balance in the Lord Nuffield gift fund for crippled persons is £41,000. I wish to know whether that fund is at present lying idle or being used.

Mr CASEY:
UAP

– I cannot supply the information offhand, but I shall obtain it for the honorable member.

page 323

QUESTION

TRADE NEGOTIATIONS WITH JAPAN

Mr FORDE:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– I direct the attention of the Minister directing negotiations for trade treaties to a cablegram published in this morning’s press from Japan in regard to the trade negotiations between Australia and Japan to the effect that the Japanese foreign office has received certain proposals from Australia to which Japan has made counter proposals. Have those counter proposals yet been considered by the Commonwealth Government, and has its decision been communicated to the Japanese Government?

Sir HENRY GULLETT:
UAP

– Yes.

page 323

PAPERS

The following papers were presented: -

Arbitration (Public Service) Act - Determinations by the Arbitrator, &c. - 1936 -

No. 11 - Commonwealth Storemen and Packers’ Union; and Commonwealth Naval Storehousemen’s Association.

No. 12 - Commonwealth Storemen and Packers’ Union of Australia.

No. 13 - Arms, Explosives and Munition Workers’ Federation of Australia.

No. 14 - Arms, Explosives and Munition Workers’ Federation of Australia ; Amalgamated Engineering Union; and Australasian Society of Engineers.

Post and Telegraph Act - Regulations amended - Statutory Rules 1936, No. 121.

PublicService Act - Regulationsamended - Statutory Rules 1936, No. 116

page 323

WOOL TAX ASSESSMENT BILL (No. 2) 1936

Mr THORBY:
Assistant Minister for Commerce · Calare · CP

– I move -

That I have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend the Wool Tax Assessment Act, 1936.

For the information of honorable members I point out that the proposed amendment is designed to alter the present machinery provisions of the Wool Tax Assessment Act, to secure the expeditious and convenient payment and collection of the tax, without disturbing the basic principles of the present act. It is intended to make regulations under the amended act prescribing, inter alia, altered forms of returns to be furnishedby wool-brokers, manufacturers, wool-scourers and those dealers who will be taxpayers under the amended scheme. The law in its present form requires the first returns to be lodged by the 21st of September, but it will not be possible for the altered forms of returns to be ready for that date. I have accordingly agreed with the Commissioner of Taxation to grant an extension of time for one month, that is, to the 21st October, for the lodgment of returns by taxpayers and for the payment of the tax required to be paid at the time of furnishing the returns.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill brought up by Mr. Thorby, and read a first time.

page 323

SALES TAX EXEMPTIONS BILL 1936

Motion (by Mr. Casey) agreed to -

That he have leave to bring in a bill for an act to amend the Sales Tax Exemption Act, 1935.

page 323

LOAN APPROPRIATION BILL 1936

Second Reading

Debate resumed from the 10th September (vide page 50), on motion by Mr. Casey -

That the bill be now read a second time.

Mr CURTIN:
Fremantle

.- The Opposition offers no objection to the passage of this bill, the purpose of which is to appropriate £600,000, the remaining portion of £3,100,000 of unexpended loan money, which has not hitherto been appropriated. I understand that it is intended to use this money for postal works, but so far as I know the schedule of the proposed works has not been made public. An amount of £1,750,000 is provided in the Works Estimates for new works from revenue, which is additional to an amount of £852,000 from other sources to be used for a similar purpose. In the last two years, the excess of receipts over expenditure in the PostmasterGeneral’s Department has totalled £2,412,000. The amount expended from loan funds in that period has been £1,460,000. In other words, although the excess receipts have gone into the general revenue, the department has expended from loan funds an amount within £1,000,000 of such excess receipts. It appears to me to be not altogether wise for the department to pay its excess receipts into Consolidated Revenue and at the same time borrow money to provide additional equipment, though I am aware that to charge the whole cost of such additional equipment against any one year would hardly be fair. In view of the fact that the Postmaster-General is administering a profitable department, as a general principle such a department should not unnecessarily add to the public debt by expending loan money simply to make certain reductions of taxation possible.

Mr GREGORY:
Swan

.- As [ was absent when this matter was discussed in connexion with the Works Estimates, I take this opportunity to draw attention to the outstanding success of small automatic telephone exchanges in country districts. These have conferred great benefits upon people resident in outlying areas giving them the means to keep in touch with the larger centres of population throughout the night, and being particularly helpful in case of emergency such as sickness in a home. I strongly urge the Minister to see whether it is not possible to carry out this policy more vigorously in the future than has been the case in the past.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND · PROT; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; IND from 1931; UAP from 1934

– I support the views just expressed by the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Gregory). The main difficulty in establishing automatic telephone exchanges in the outlying districts is the absence of electric current, but I point out to the Minister representing the Postmaster-General that that can be overcome, to some extent, in view of the fact that electricity supply companies are now extending their operations considerably in country areas. When I placed certain requests before the Deputy Director in Queensland, I was advised that sufficient money had not been appropriated to enable the department to carry out such work. The amount provided had already been allocated. I ask the

Minister how much is being allocated this year for this purpose, and whether he can increase the amount available in any way by allocations from the general departmental funds?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for Defence · Warringah · UAP

– I made a statement on this matter on Wednesday in which I indicated the number of rural automatic telephone exchanges which hare already been established, and admitted that the experience of the department bears out fully the opinions just expressed by honorable members regarding the value of these facilities.

Mr Forde:

– Does the department propose to establish automatic exchanges as a general policy?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Yes ; it proposes to do that as widely and as rapidly as possible, but, as I explained previously, these works are fairly costly with the result that much consideration has to be given to such projects before they can be embarked upon. Provision has been made this year to convert 52 additional exchanges in rural districts from the manual to the automatic system, as follows: - thirteen in New South Wales, fourteen in Victoria, nine in Queensland,, seven in South Australia, five in Western Australia, and four in Tasmania.

Mr Forde:

– Will this work be carried out in small centres, or in bigger centres like Rockhampton?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The centres concerned are not so large as Rockhampton, but they serve very wide areas. The new exchanges will obviate the necessity for any manual attention and will give subscribers a continuous service.

Mr Forde:

– Is it proposed to convert manual exchanges to the automatic system in the bigger centres of population ?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The work to which I am now referring is quite apart from that proposed to be undertaken in the larger centres of population. The appropriation for the current year’ for telephone exchange services is £1,502,850, which is £284,580 in excess of last year’s expenditure of £1,218,270, and this amount is made up of £852,850 included in the Works Estimates, £600,000 from loan, and £50,000 which was ear-marked from last year’s appropriation for rural automatic telephone exchanges. I assure honorable members that the department fully recognizes the importance of installing automatic exchanges in rural districts, and it is proposed to spend £50,000 on this particular work this year.

Mr Gregory:

– That is an average of about £1,000 for each exchange?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Yes.

Mr ROSEVEAR:
Dalley

.- I am not satisfied with the reply given to mo by the Minister (Sir Archdale Parkhill) representing the Postmaster-General in respect of expenditure on the conversion of the telephone exchange at Petersham from the manual to the automatic system. This work has been going on in piecemeal fashion for a number of years, and the reason given for the failure to carry it out as one job was that the old manual exchange was still workable and the department could not see its way clear to dispense with it until it had thoroughly outlived its usefulness. We should imagine that the first consideration of a department which, like the Postmaster-General’s Department,” makes a handsome annual profit, should be not whether an old manual machine has outlived its usefulness, but whether as a department rendering a service to subscribers, it can render them a better service. The Petersham exchange serves a very large residential area and also a large manufacturing area, and subscribers to it are justified, in view of the charges they are obliged to pay, in asking for a more efficient service. It is all very well for the Minister to say that provision is being made for the conversion of the exchange at Petersham, but this work is being done only in piecemeal fashion, whereas if it had been done rapidly as one job, a better service would have been provided to subscribers. This should have been done, seeing that it was always intended that the whole of the exchange was to be converted eventually to the- automatic system, and ths department would have benefited through a big saving of expenditure; furthermore, additional employ ment would have been provided through such work.

Sir Archdale Parkhill:

– The Petersham exchange is not the only one in the department’s network.

Mr ROSEVEAR:

– I do not claim that it is, but stress the fact that grievances have long been suffered at Petersham, not only by subscribers, but also by public bodies, and I emphasize that had the department gone about this work properly and done all the job at once, considerable expenditure would have been saved.

Sir Archdale Parkhill:

– It would not have made any difference in expenditure.

Mr ROSEVEAR:

– When the Minister was Postmaster-General, he expressed the opinion that the Petersham exchange should not be converted until the old machine had outlived its usefulness. X suggest that he was wrong in that opinion; although the old exchange is capable of doing duty to-day, the department admits that it is defective. He also said that it would be many years before the old machine outlived its usefulness. I suggest that the fact that the department under a new Minister has decided to complete this work at once, shows also that he may be wrong on this occasion when he asserts that no saving would have resulted to the department through doing this job as a whole. I again appeal to the Minister to give consideration to the conversion of this exchange to the automatic system in one job instead of in piecemeal fashion. If this is done, the department will benefit from increased revenue from additional subscribers.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– I congratulate the Government on its policy of installing automatic exchanges in country areas, and I should like the Minister to give honorable members details of its proposals in tha* direction for the current year. About twelve or fifteen years ago the then Commonwealth Government announced as its policy the extension of automatic exchanges to country areas ; but, notwithstanding the fact that successive governments in the interim have subscribed t» that policy, only 29 automatic exchanges have been installed in rural districts in that period, justifying the criticism which was voiced by honorable members on this matter against previous governments. Out of these 29 exchanges, eleven were installed in Victoria, whilst the numbers installed in the other States were six in New South Wales, three in Queensland, four in South Australia, three in Western Australia and two in Tasmania. I have failed completely to elicit any real reason why eleven of those exchanges should have been installed in rural areas of Victoria, whilst only six were installed in New South Wales and only three in such a vast State as Queensland. I am of opinion that automatic exchanges would confer greater benefits if installed in rural areas in the larger States with scattered populations than in a State which has a comparatively compact population. Notwithstanding this fact, the Government proposes to install, during the ensuing year, fourteen of these exchanges in rural districts in Victoria, and in the other States only the following numbers : - New South Wales, thirteen; Queensland, nine; South Australia, seven; Western Australia, five; and Tasmania, four. I admit that this programme represents an improvement on the policy pursued in previous years. Nevertheless, greater consideration should be given to people who Bro living in distant outposts of Australia and who are doing a great service to the nation by developing outlying areas under great difficul ties.

Mr GREGORY:

– The main difficulty in this matter is the supply of electric current.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– That is not a real difficulty in many areas which, I claim, should be given the benefit of an automatic telephone service. I suggest that the department should give more favorable consideration to the requests for rural automatic exchanges in the State with the largest areas in which settlement is more scattered than in the other States. Service of this kind is not so necessary in a compact, thicklypopulated State like Victoria, as it is in the outback parts of New South Wales.

Mr FORDE:
Capricornia

.- I offer no opposition to this vote; I only regret that it is not larger. Modern scientific invention has revolutionized telephonic communication throughout the world. While I admit that much has been done by the PostmasterGeneral’s Department during the la3t ten years to take advantage of scientific improvements, and though 29 of these rural automatic exchanges have been established in various parts of Australia, the fact remains that in my electorate, which has an area of 34,000 square miles - as large as the State of Victoria - not one of these rural automatic exchanges has been established.

Sir Littleton Groom:

– Is electric current available where it would be needed ?

Mr FORDE:

– It is available in several places where exchanges should be installed. I urge the Minister to give more sympathetic consideration to requests for the installation of rural automatic exchanges in the more remote country districts. The department hat been conducting experiments in regard to these exchanges for some years, but the time for experimentation has now passed. They have proved to be satisfactory, and should be installed wherever they are needed. One of the greatest hardships with which settlers in the more remote parts have to contend is the lack of proper telephone facilities, to enable calls to be put through for nurses, doctors, or ambulances in case of sickness. Although the allowance postmasters and postmistresses give useful service, they are not on duty throughout the whole 24 hours, and serious delays sometimes occur in the putting through of urgent calls. The installation of rural automatic telephone exchanges has filled a long-felt want in country districts, and their use should be extended. I regret to observe that the allocation for this purpose is not even as large this year as it was last year.

It is also important that in the larger centres the existing manual exchanges should be converted to automatic. Is it the intention, of the department to embark on a definite policy of conversion, scrapping the manual equipment as the work proceeds, or is it proposed to wait until the existing manual equipment is worn out? For some years, the people of Rockhampton have been asking for the installation of an automatic telephone exchange in that town. The present exchange was established 23 years ago, and is to-day obsolescent. It gives as good service as any manual exchange of the kind can, but, of course, it is not so efficient as an automatic exchange would be. I trust that when the department converts manual exchanges to automatic, steps will be taken to ensure that the girls employed in the manual exchanges are absorbed into the department in other capacities. It would be most unfortunate, if their services were dispensed with altogether, and I hope that the Minister will be able to give an assurance that this will not be done.

Mr COLLINS:
Hume

.- I think that all honorable members are prepared to commend the Government and the Postmaster-General’s Department on the progressive policy of installing rural automatic telephone exchanges in various parts of the country. The installation of these exchanges supplies a long-felt want, particularly in areas which hitherto have had to put up with a telephone service from 9 o’clock in the morning to 6 o’clock in the evening. A service of that kind is of little use to graziers, who leave their homes before the exchange opens in the morning and do not return until after it closes. Of course, I know that these rural automatic exchanges can be installed only where electric current is available, but electric power lines are being extended rapidly throughout the country, and most rural centres will, before long, be served with current.

I am pleased to note that the department has seen fit to extend the hours during which certain country exchanges remain open, so that men who are out working all day may, upon their return at night, be able to conduct their business. This service is greatly appreciated by residents of country districts. In the mountainous areas of New South WaWhundreds of thousands of pounds’ worth of valuable stock are depastured during the summer on what are known as snow leases. When the pastures in the Riverina become depleted, the stock are removed to the higher land, and it is most important that the man in charge of them should be able to notify tho owners by telephone immediately there is a threat of snow. At the present time the telephone exchange in this district is open only from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., and it is highly desirable that the hours be extended.

Mr GARDEN:
Cook

– I realize that if the Government were to comply with every request made by honorable members, this vote of £600,000 would have to be increased to one of millions. However, I take this opportunity again to impress upon the Minister the need for converting the present manual telephone exchange at Mascot to automatic. When I made the request on a previous occasion, I was informed that it was admitted in the department that the work should be done, but the Minister said that he could see no possibility of the necessary funds being made available in the near future. He added that it would probably be necessary to wait until the existing manual equipment was worn out, but that would involve a delay of ten years. There are more industries situated within the borders of Mascot than in any other similar area in the Commonwealth. During the last six months no fewer than fifteen new industries have been established there, yet the residents have to depend upon the service rendered by a manual telephone exchange. The municipalities of Botany, Mascot, Waterloo and Alexandria have made requests for the installation of an auto matic exchange, and it is urgent that action be taken. Those who have had occasion to use the exchange know that between the hours of nine in the morning and five in the afternoon it may take anything from ten to twenty minutes to put a call through. Business people whose factories are in Mascot, but whose head offices are in the city, are seriously inconvenienced as the result, while it must be evident to every one that, for defence purposes, it is very desirable that rapid communication should be assured with Mascot, which would be the chief centre of activity in the event of hostilities breaking out.

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for Defence · Warringah · UAP

– I have paid close attention to a most interesting discussion upon the provision of telephone exchanges, more particularly automatic exchanges, and I assure the House that the fullest consideration will be given to all the representations that have been made by honorable members. The post office administration is at one with honorable members as to the real value of automatic exchanges, but the fundamental difficulty is one of cost. For example, the telephone services at North Sydney are most extensive, but they are still provided by manual exchange, and the cost of conversion to automatic would be in the vicinity of £40,000.

Mr Mulcahy:

– The requirements of North Sydney are not so important as those of Mascot.

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– So far as North Sydney is concerned, there is no comparison in regard to importance; it is North Sydney. However, the interjection of the honorable member was probably only an attempt at feeble Friday morning humour, and I shall not pursue it. The matter to be borne in mind is that the department is proceeding as rapidly as possiblewith the work, and I ask the House to believe that, if there are delays in acceding to all the requests which are submitted by honorable members, it is not the fault of the Postmaster-General (Senator A. J. McLachlan). That honorable gentleman asks for very considerable sums of money for this work, but the Government has not seen its way clear to grant those requests in full. It has increased the appropriation this year with the intention of converting manual exchanges into automatic exchanges as rapidly as circumstances permit. From the business and economic stand-point, I realize the importance of establishing facilities for rapid communication at Mascot, and I shall personally bring the matter under the notice of the Postmaster-General, with a view to ascertaining whether something can be done.

With respect to the Rockhampton post office mentioned by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Forde), I am able to inform him that plans have been designed and the engineering features are being developed so that in a short space of time some definite improvement should be made.

Mr Forde:

– What will be the cost?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

-I shall endeavour to obtain the information for the honorable gentleman. From the details which have been supplied to me, however, it seems that the proposals will involve the erection of almost a new building.

Mr Nock:

-Cannot the department be more liberal with regard to the requirements of the country?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

-I am coming to that subject. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition expressed the hope that positions would be found in other branches of the PostmasterGeneral’s Department for operatives of manual exchanges who may be displaced through the introduction of automatic exchanges. With the rapid expansion of the activities of the post offices throughout the Commonwealth, I think that the honorable gentleman can rest assured that every effort will be made with every prospect of success, to reabsorb any employees displaced by the introduction of improved equipment.

The honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Rosevear) referred to the position of the Petersham exchange. I remember this case well. The exchange was in operation when I was Postmaster-General, and the machinery still had many years of usefulness in it. Naturally, the subscribers prefer the convenience of an automaticexchange, but I submit to honorable members that no business undertaking, postal or private, would be prepared to scrap useful machinery which would give efficient service for a long time and install more expensive plant unless ample funds were available and there were special reasons for it. I contend that this attitude on the part of the department isperfectly reasonable. The other day I explained to the honorable member that the work of converting the outstanding manual subscribers to the Petersham exchange is being pushed forward as rapidly as possible. Approximately 1,700 are now served by the automatic exchange and approximately 1,200 more subscribers will be dealt with in the next batch, and be cut over to the automatic toward the end of next year. A new exchange is projected at Undercliffe, which will accommodate a certain number of the subscribers now in the southern portion of the present Petersham area, and this work is also being pushed forward with all expedition, although it is not practicable at the moment to state when the automatic service for this section can be given. I remind the honorable member that the Petersham exchange is not the only one in the Commonwealth and it is quite reasonable that others should also receive consideration. The .policy adopted in connexion with the Petersham exchange is exceedingly reasonable, and the work is being performed much more rapidly than in other cases.

Mr Forde:

– It shows that the honorable member for Dalley is very vigilant.

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Yes, but not especially appreciative of what has been done on his behalf. However, he is quite entitled to press the matter if he considers that his representations accelerate the work.

In regard to country telephone exchanges, I shall bring the critical views of the honorable member for Macquarie (Mr. John Lawson) under the notice of the administration, and no doubt they will be very much appreciated, because it is glad to have frank speaking on these matters.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– How many of the 52 exchanges will be installed in rural areas?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL Fiftytwo automatic exchanges are intended for country areas. This work has been in the nature of an experiment, but it is now getting beyond the experimental stage. A sum of £50,000 was earmarked last year for this purpose, and a further £25,000 will be devoted to it this year, so that the amount which will be spent on automatic telephones in the country districts this year, according to the Estimates, is £75,000.

Mr Forde:

– There will be no installations in central Queensland?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– That is quite probable, but I am confident that the position W111 be altered later. The fact that the substantial sum of £75,000 is being spent on the installation of automatic telephone exchanges in country districts is, in itself, a considerable stride in the right direction. Like honorable members the Postal Department recog nizes that the granting of such facilities as a mail and telephone service to districts that have been described by the honorable member for Macquarie as “ the far-flung outposts of the Commonwealth” should receive consideration- Perhaps the honorable member had in mind at the time the Kurrajong. But the provision of these real amenities of life encourage people to settle in remote districts by making their living conditions reasonably satisfactory. The importance of telephone communication to the country districts is realized by the Government, and the expenditure of £75,000 on providing these facilities this year will prove to be of very considerable advantage to the outback centres, which have been referred to by the honorable member.

Mr JOHN LAWSON:
MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP

– Can the Minister explain the disproportion in the installation of these exchanges as between Victoria and New South Wales?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– The system, I understand, was in the nature of an experiment, and it was considered desirable at first to keep the exchanges within the ambit of the head office of the department in order that adequate supervision could be given to them more rapidly than if they had been widely scattered.

Mr Forde:

– But the head office will soon be established in Canberra?

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:

– Yes, I think that it will be established here within a couple of years. I emphasize, however, that the position has. advanced beyond the stage mentioned by the honorable member for Macquarie, and the situation which he describes no longer prevails. The development and the value of rural automatic exchanges are recognized, and their extension is regarded by this Government as being one of the most important of its activities.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time.

In committee:

The bill.

Mr CLARK:
Darling

– A sum of £600,000 has been made available by the Government from loan funds for expenditure on works. Last year a sum of £9,000 was ear-marked for the provision of trunk line services, but I regret to note that apparently no loan money is forthcoming for expenditure in this direction this year.

Mr Casey:

– Provision is being made this year from revenue.

Mr CLARK:

– A number of applications have been made for the extension of trunk-line facilities to outlying areas of New South Wales, particularly from Broken Hill to Tibooburra and Wilcannia. The district between Wilcannia and Barnato, which is west of Cobar, has no telephone communication at all. I should also like to know whether any alterations are contemplated in the service between Cobar and Wilcannia and Broken Hill and Wilcannia, and in other lines in those areas. For many years no progress has been made in the provision of trunk-line facilities in these parts. At best, they are served by old, single lines. Many years ago, when settlement was very sparse in this area, the government of the day saw fit to construct certain telephone lines, but although in the interim the population has considerably increased and the demand for telephone services is much greater, the present Government is not prepared to add to the existing facilities. For hundreds of miles there are no telephone services.

Mr ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
WARRINGAH, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT; UAP from 1931

– And no settlers.

Mr CLARK:

– Between Barnato and Wilcannia there is an appreciable number of settlers who require this service. Doubtless the provision of automatic telephones in city areas is an excellent idea, tout I do not think that this work should be carried out to the exclusion of the provision of essential telephone lines in other districts. Settlers outback are entitled to the benefits of telephone services, and if the Government expects these areas to be populated it must be prepared to encourage people to live in them by granting them certain conveniences, such as telephones. Otherwise they may decline to settle there. Lines connecting Broken Hill with Wilcannia and Tibooburra and from Barnato to Wilcannia are urgently required. The construction of a direct line of communication to follow the railway line through Ivanhoe and thence to Broken Hill would not involve the Postmaster-

General’s Department in excessive expenditure, because at the present time poles have been erected along the route to carry a railway telephone. By the operation of what is called the “ carrier-wave system,” these settlers could be given telephonic facilities at little expense. The electric current necessary to operate such a line is available at Broken Hill and Parkes.

I congratulate the Government upon the establishment of an automatic telephone exchange at Dareton, near Mildura, in my electorate. It has proved completely successful. Previously, subscribers to this exchange had only a parttime service ; now they have a continuous service. The Government should extend these facilities to other rural districts.

Sir LITTLETON GROOM:
Darling Downs

– The complaint is made that too high a rate is fixed with respect tothe minimum ofrevenue prescribed for the establishment of public telephones in the cities. I have been requested to urge upon the Minister the desirability of considering a revision of these rates. It is thought that the healthy state of the finances of the Postal Department justifies a reduction of them.

Mr LAZZARINI:
Werriwa

.- The Government should make a greater amount available for the installation of automatic telephone exchanges in country districts. A trial has been given to one of these exchanges in my electorate. The Deputy Director of Postal Services in Sydney is anxious to provide this modern service, but is unable to do sobecause of his inability to obtain the necessary finance. If the Government would second the efforts of the department, this work could be carried out expeditiously. No one denies the necessity for it. From the viewpoint of employment, this is an avenue in which public money would be well spent. . It would not represent a deadweight debt on the nation, because the work would become immediately reproductive. I trust that favorable consideration will be given to the matter, and that sufficient funds will be provided for the rapid conversion of manual exchanges to the automatic system.

Sir ARCHDALE PARKHILL:
Minister for Defence · Warringah · UAP

– The suggestions made by the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Clark)will be given every consideration. I am acquainted with the district to which he has referred. The paramount consideration is that of cost. I promise to bring the matter personally to the notice of the Postmaster-General.

In reply to the honorable member for Werriwa (Mr. Lazzarini), I would say that the department is appreciative of the value of automatic telephone exchanges. The sum of £75,000 appears on this year’s Estimates for the extension of that system.

I shall bring before the Administration the request of the honorable member for Darling Downs (Sir Littleton Groom) for the reduction of the charges imposed when applications are lodged for the installation of public telephones, to see if the conditions can be eased somewhat.

Bill agreed to and reported without amendment; report adopted.

Bill read a third time.

SALES TAX BILLS (Nos. 1 to 9) 1936.

In Committee of Ways and Means:

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

.- I move- 1.That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 1) 1930-1931,as a ffec ted by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rule of four per centum upon the sale value of goods manufactured in Australia by a taxpayer, which on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, are sold by him or treated by him as stock for sale by retail or applied to his own use.

  1. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 2) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods manufactured in Australia and, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, sold by a taxpayer who purchased them from the manufacturer.
  2. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 3) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods manufactured in Australia and, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, sold by a. taxpayer not being either the manufacturer of those goods or a purchaser of those goods from the manufacturer.
  3. That in lien of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 4) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods manufactured in Australia and, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty -six, sold to a taxpayer who has applied those goods to his own use.
  4. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No.5) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four percentum upon the sale value of goods imported into Australia by a taxpayer on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six.
  5. That in lieu of the rates of” tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 8) 1930-1932, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods imported into Australia by a taxpayer and, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, sold by him or applied by has to his own use.
  6. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No 7) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the Bale value of goods imported into Australia and, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, sold by a taxpayer not being the importerof the goods.
  7. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 8) 1930-1931, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there be imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods imported into Australia and sold to a taxpayer who has, on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six applied those goods to his own use.
  8. That in lieu of the rates of tax imposed by the Sales Tax Act (No. 9) 1930-1935, as affected by section nineteen of the Financial Relief Act 1933, there he imposed sales tax at the rate of four per centum upon the sale value of goods in Australia, including goods which have gone into use or consumption in Australia, leased on or after the eleventh day of September, One thousand nine hundred and thirty-six, by a taxpayer to a lessee.

Honorable members are aware of the reason for the moving of nine motions. The limitation imposed on the Parliament by theConstitution necessitates the passage of nine measures for the implementing of the sales tax.

Mr JENNINGS:
Watson

.- The Government is to be commended for its proposal to reduce the sales tax by 20 per cent. Its action will be appreciated by all sections of the community. But I should have preferred the basis of the tax to be3¾ per cent., not on the ground that that would be a greater reduction than is here proposed, although that is important in itself, but because of the added advantage to the commercial community in connexion with the computations which have to be made - 3$ per cent, being 9d. in the £1, or 4£d. in 10s. A tax of 4 per cent, involves a good deal of extra work as well as, possibly, confusion, expense, and delay in computation. Those who have had experience of the sales tax realize that members of business staffs are not strictly trained in this new form of taxation. As a way out of the difficulty, I suggest that the department issue a table illustrating the manner in which the tax is computed. Such a table would be of considerable assistance to the business community. Fractions are involved in the computation, with a tax of 4 per cent, on such an amount as 27s. 6d., and the same principle of course applies to larger amounts. Much of the objection to the sales tax lies in the work involved, and the delay caused in its computation and the compilation of returns.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– The matter which the honorable member has brought under notice has not escaped the attention of the Government. Inquiries have been made among a fairly wide range of traders, merchants, and organizations, to ascertain whether a fixed amount in the £f, such as 9d. or 10d., would be an improvement on the percentage basis. The general consensus of opinion is that there is not very much difference in practice, because the majority of sales tax calculations have to be made on broken amounts. In any event, a ready reckoner would have to be used.

Mr Jennings:

– Not if the rate of tax were, say, 9d. in the £1.

Mr CASEY:

– I think so. It is beyond my capacity to say offhand what th’e sales tax would be on 14s. 6d. at the rate of 9d. in the £1. Even if the rate of tax were 5 per cent., the calculation on a broken amount would not be easy.

Mr. MCCALL.What would a further reduction of i per cent, represent?

Mr CASEY:

– Something like £500,000. Private enterprise rather than the department should provide a ready reckoner. Some businesses deal in small amounts, while with others large amounts are involved. Not more than a couple of hours would be needed to run out a ready reckoner in respect of the range of prices on which a business would normally have to calculate sales tax.

Mr NAIRN:
Perth

.- Many concessions have been given in connexion with the sales tax. but there i3 one which “I think has for too long been overlooked. I refer to the granting of some compensation to certain merchants for the expense and trouble to which they are put in the making of calculations. In New Zealand, a discount of 2 per cent, is allowed for that particular purpose. This request has been made to the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) at different times, and he has promised to give it consideration.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– This matter has received a great deal of consideration in the last few months. Representations have been made to the department by various trading bodies over a considerable period that a percentage discount should be allowed for payment within a given period, but Cabinet has decided that it is unable to agree to the proposal. Some business people are subjected to little or no inconvenience in computing and paying sales tax, whilst others are put to varying degrees of inconvenience, and, to some extent, expense, in computing, collecting and paying the tax. We have not been able to devise a method of recompensing business people that would operate fairly. A merchant dealing with a. product such as tea has no difficulty in computing the amount of his tax, and he is put to no additional expense in connexion with his staff, but there are wholesale grocers and hardware merchants who certainly suffer some inconvenience, and incur expense, by reason of the multifarious returns which they have to prepare. A flat rate of discount for prompt payment, or in recognition of expense involved in connexion with the tax, would be more than fair to some, and insufficient to recompense others. The Government is endeavouring to straighten out the law in order to reduce these difficulties, and further measures to that end will be brought down in the course of the next few weeks. Every effort is being made to simplify the sales tax in the interests of the community. There is some justice in the claim for a discount, but, every phase of the matter having been considered, the Government regrets its inability to take action in the matter.

Mr E J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– 1 am surprised that the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) should attempt to convince the committee that, in some cases, little or no work is attached to the making of the returns. I suggest that, as the Government has made business people a collecting agency on its behalf, a certain amount of work which would not otherwise be done is involved. This fact is recognized by various departments. If a department is called upon to supply information which involves an examination of its accounts, taxpayers are charged for the work done. I have in mind information supplied with regard to telephone accounts. The Postal Department insists on a payment being made for this service, because of the inconvenience of making the necessary investigation. No matter how simple a sales tax return may be, a certain amount of work is involved in preparing it. I see no justification for withholding compensation to the business community in recognition of its services as a collecting agency for . the Government.

Mr Holloway:

– The cost of collection is added to retail prices.

Mr E J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– In some instances that may be so. Some people claim that the cost of submitting a return in connexion with a sales tax of 5 per cent, is no more than for a tax of 2£ per cent. ; but the great majority regard the tax as grossly unfair, because they have no opportunity to pass it on. Owing to the keen competition in the commercial world, many business houses have to bear the full brunt of the tax themselves. They are compelled to submit returns, and to make their books available to the department when requested to do so by an investigating officer. This examination may waste hours in a day, or weeks in a month, yet no compensation is received by them.

Mr CURTIN:
Fremantle

– I sm surprised at the suggestion that business people should be compensated because of the costs allegedly incurred in making computations for the purposes of the sates tax. Under this bill, and under another measure proposed to be brought down, substantial relief will be afforded by a reduction of the rate from 5 per cent, to 4 per cent, and also, I understand, by a fairly extensive addition to the list of exemptions.

Mr E J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– Where does the benefit come in?

Mr CURTIN:

– In large scale transactions, the purchaser will probably save £1 in every £100 worth of goods, but ‘ I venture the opinion that, in the great majority of small transactions, there will be no reduction of retail prices, as the purchasers of parcels of goods not exceeding in value, say, £1, will continue to bear the same impost as before. How could the retail prices of clothing, which is generally bought in small quantities, be reduced, because of a saving iu sales tax of £1 in every £100 worth of goods? Although the Opposition will have no objection to the reduction from 5 per cent, to 4 per cent., it feels that in its incidence the tax will operate unfairly, in that the great majority of the purchasers of luxury goods such as motor cars will get a definite advantage of a reduction of price, whilst it is doubtful if a corresponding advantage will accrue ‘ to the purchasers of goods worth £1 or less. Surely the business community has brought about something approaching order in its methods of dealing with the tax. I consider that the Treasurer has done well by the business community by reducing the rate of tax as prescribed in this measure, and by indicating that he proposes to have the list of exemptions extended.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · .Corio · UAP

– I do not wish the committee to think that I object to compensating traders for expenditure .incurred by them in respect of sales tax collections and returns. Indeed, I, personally, am sympathetic towards the idea, and have gone to a good deal of trouble in investigating the possibility of working out a fair method by which traders could be recompensed for expenditure actually incurred. Although the department has looked into a dozen different .way3 of achieving the desired end, it has not found one workable plan, because the cost of the tax falls unequally upon taxpayers engaged in businesses of various kinds. As a further example of the difficulty of the administrating sales tax legislation, I point out to honorable members that, when sales tax is paid at the Customs House, all the calculations are made by the departmental officers. It would be very difficult to make a distinction between the man who pays his tux at the Customs House and the merchant who pays it elsewhere in Australia. As a matter of fact, the man who pay* at the Customs House is out of his money for a much longer period than the man who pays on the last wholesale sale. That fact suggests one of the fundamental difficulties of the situation. If wo were to give a uniform discount for cash on sales tax payments, I do not see how we could logically defend a failure to extend the same principle to customs and excise payments.

Mr Curtin:

– What about many individual taxpayers who compile income tax returns?

Mr CASEY:

– I was confining my remarks to ‘indirect taxation.

Mr E J HARRISON:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES · UAP; LP from 1944

– The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Curtin) must be aware that he has introduced a very different principle.

Mr CASEY:

– In tho wide field of indirect taxation, the Government would not have very firm legs to stand on in resisting applications for cash discounts on customs and excise payments if it granted them on sales tax payments.

Mr CLARK:
Darling

.- Although I am pleased to sec that the Government has made a reduction of 1 per cent, in the rate of sales tax, I do not think that it has gone far enough. Sales tax bears very harshly on people in a small way of business, who almost invariably lose money in connexion with it. It also bears heavily on all the poorer sections of the community, and particularly those who are obliged to accept sustenance. It would have been preferable for the Government to have retained the former rates of direct taxation in order to permit it to reduce greatly, or even abolish, the sales tax, which in my opinion is one of the first forms of taxation that should be eliminated. Under tho various methods of direct taxation that we adopt it is necessary for people to have a taxable income before they can be called upon to pay tax, but in an indirect form of taxation, such as the sales tax, people who have practically no income have to pay the tax, and in the case of business people in a small way, many who are actually incurring a loss are Obliged to pay it. People in a small way of business are not able to purchase goods in large quantities. It is the retailerwholesaler who suffers most from this tax, for he is not able to pass on the tax. As I pointed out in a speech which I delivered cm this subject last year, a sales tax is not fair, because in many cases people who do not show a profit on their operations are called upon to pay. Small retailer-wholesalers often have to call on their capital in order to meet sales tax exactions. The large wholesale firms in the cities supplying goods to retailers are in a position to collect the tax, but that is not the case with people in a smaller way of business. I favour the imposition of direct taxes based on ability to pay rather than indirect taxes. The sales tax is very unfair in its practical application. If such a tax is necessary at all it should be in the form of a turnover tax at the lowest possible rate, and it should be paid by the wholesaler, the manufacturer and the retailer.

Mr CURTIN:

– If that practice were adopted, some people would be paying a tax on a tax.

Mr CLARK:

– That would not matter very much for the rate would be very low. A tax at the rate’ of 1 per cent, or less on such a’ basis would yield” the Government the amount of money which it is obtaining from the existing sales tax. It is entirely unfair that a man with an income of from £200 to £300 should have to pay upwards, of £100 in sales tax. In these circumstances the retailerwholesaler should be given special consideration. Probably this point may be considered more appropriately when the proposed exemptions are before us, but I am strongly of the opinion that some more equitable system of taxation should be devised. If it is necessary for the Government to obtain revenue from an indirect tax of this nature, the rate of tax should be very low. Many people in business in a small way Lave only a low income. The census taken some years ago showed that a very big proportion of the population of Australia lived on small incomes, and indirect taxes are always unfair to such people. I sincerely hope that if the Government is not able to see its way clear to eliminate this tax altogether in the near future, it will at least take steps to remove some of the inequities in the present procedure.

Mr LANE:
Barton

.- In my opinion the Government is making too many exemptions in the sales tax with the result that the needy people of the community are being harshly treated. If no exemptions were allowed the rate of tax could probably be reduced to 2£ per cent. Under existing conditions the small business man is invariably hard hit. The man who has ready money available can get cash discounts which are of considerable value to his business, but that is not the lot of the small business man as a rule. Cash-and-carry stores buy large quantities of goods under conditions which make successful competition by the small storekeeper impossible. The small business man who goes to York-street to buy goods in limited quantities is compelled to buy without any discounts. We know very well that practically all the goods used by the farming community are exempt from sales tax. I consider that the interests of justice would be better served if the exemptions were discontinued and the general rate of tax lowered. Why should the small man be penalized every time? I protest against exemptions being granted to favoured industries. The fewer the exemptions from sales tax the better will be the lot of the small storekeeper. People who are paid only small wages suffer greatly from the incidence of sales taxation. It is unfortunately a fact that many people are to-day still receiving payments at about the same rate as that which prevailed during the depth of the depression. Indirect taxation such as the sales tax is unfair to relief workers and all the poorer people in the community; it is time that the Government realized this. I know that the sales tax is a money spinner which few governments would have the courage voluntarily to dispense with, but that does not justify the maintenance of this tax at the rate of even 4 per cent. If the impost were spread over a wider area, the rate could be reduced to at least 2£ per cent.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

– I hope in the course of the next week, to submit to honorable members, other bills relating to sales tax, which will provide a more appropriate opportunity for the consideration of the incidence of this impost. I, therefore, do not propose to discuss the subject at present. I am quite sure, however, that the information that I have at hand will be enlightening to them, particularly as to the incidence of sales tax in respect of the man on the basic wage and other people in the community who live on small incomes. I assure the committee that I shall have a great deal to say on that subject which will be a direct reply to the observations of the honorable member for Darling (Mr. Clark), and the honorable member for Barton (Mr. Lane).

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Resolutions reported.

Standing Orders suspended; resolutions adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Casey and Sir Henry Gullett do prepare and bring in bills to carry out tie foregoing- resolutions.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

by leave - I move -

That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would prevent the questions in regard to the introduction, first and second readings, Committee’s report stage, and third readings being put in one motion covering several or all of the Sales Tax Bills Nos. 1 to 9, and the consideration of several or all of such Bills together in a Committee of the whole.

The nine bills to which the motion refers are exactly similar, but the requirements of our Constitution render necessary the introduction of nine separate measures. If honorable members will agree to this motion, it will be possible for me to deal with certain matters in five motions which otherwise would require 45 motions.

Mr GREGORY:

– Will the Treasurer give me an assurance that the motion, if carried, will simply give effect to the resolutions we have just agreed to?

Mr CASEY:

– Neither more, nor less.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Bills brought up (by Mr. Casey), and read a first time.

Second Reading

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

.- I move-

That the bills be now read a second time.

The principal acts which it is sought to amend by these measures are intricate to follow, and the purpose of these bills is to bring together for the first time all the rates of sales tax that have obtained in the past from the time when this class of taxation was introduced at the rate of 2½ per cent., through to the period when it was varied to 6 per cent. and 5 per cent., and they will, of course, cover the tax at the rate of 4 per cent., at which it has been operating since the 11th September. In the past, in order to discover the formal authority for the various rates of sales tax which have operated from time to time, it has been necessary to examine all the measures that have been passed to grant financial relief, and also the acts which have varied the rates of tax. The passage of these bills will greatly simplify the procedure. It must be remembered that sales tax is still being paid in respect of past transactions at the various rates that have obtained, and the bringing together of these rates into one measure will be of a. great convenience to all concerned.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Curtin) adjourned.

Sitting suspended from l2.48 to 2 p.m.

page 336

BUDGET 1936-37

In Committee of Supply :

Consideration resumed from the 10th September (vide page 47) on motion by Mr. Casey -

That the first item in the Estimates under division1 - the Senate - namely “Salaries and Allowances £7,900 “ be agreed to.

Mr CURTIN:
Fremantle

.- No budget is quite as bad as its opponents would suggest, nor is it quite so good as Government supporters proclaim. This budget is notable for a num ber of features, some good, some indifferent, and some bad. Epitomized, it can be said that the Government has a surplus in excess of its estimate because it has collected in taxation an amount with- out precedent in the history of the federation. Notwithstanding all of the Government’s boasts regarding the remissions of taxes already effected, the fact remains that the present Treasurer (Mr. Casey), during the last financial year, took more from the Australian public than any of his predecessors. And in the current year, for which we are now budgeting, notwithstanding his declared intention to remit taxes, he proposes to take an amount of over £61,500,000 in taxation, thus exceeding the record of every previous year except his own peak achievement in 1935-36.

This budget contemplates a higher customs revenue than was the case last year, when the yield was much in excess of the estimate, and the actual receipts were over £2,750,000 more than in 1934-35. And what is true of customs revenue is also true of excise revenue. The receipts from these two items taken together last financial year, greatly exceeded the formal estimate, and in the present year the Government has the hardihood to budget for customs and excise revenue over £1,000,000 in excess of that which was collected in 1935-36. Having regard to all forms of indirect taxation, the yield last year was a little less than £5,000,000 more than that of the previous year, and aggregated over £52,000,000. The budget estimates for the present year a yield in all forms of indirect taxation, of £51,100,000, which is nearly £4,000,000 more than the yield in 1934-35, £7,000,000 more than in 1933-34, and nearly £9,000,000 more than in 1932-33 - staggering increases of the revenue available to this Government from what can be described as easy sources of money.

A satisfactory feature of the budget is that it indicates a competence on the part of the Government for a full restoration of public servants’ salaries, an increase of the maternity allowance an increase of the rate of invalid and old-age pensions, which should have been granted earlier, and larger provision, both from revenue and from loan, for Commonwealth works and services. All these features of the budget, I believe, will be received with satisfaction by all sections of the community ; and the Opposition, no less than the Government, welcomes the fact that these improvements have been made possible. The budget fails, however, to make any provision to meet that part of the problem of the present economic order which is known as part-time employment, sustenance or relief work. The depression has increased the proportion of unemployables in the community. It has greatly restricted opportunities to employ youth. It has certainly rendered far more acute the struggle for a living on the. part of the worst-circumstanced section of the Australian public; and for this grievously-afflicted and very large number of Australian citizens the budget makes little or no provision whatever.

Furthermore, in remitting taxes, the Government increases the proportion of its total yield derived indirectly over- that which is derived directly; it disregards to a greater extent than heretofore the principle of levying taxes on the basis of ability to pay; and in regard to income tax, both from’ personal exertion and from property, its policy gives a much more substanital saving to incomes on the higher ranges than to those on the lower ranges. The reduction of the rate of sales tax from 5 per cent, to 4 per cent, will have a negligible effect on the lower-priced goods and thus it will be of very little benefit in respect of these articles ; in practice it will provide relief of an obvious kind in respect of the higher-priced, and what can be called luxury commodities. Another remarkable feature of the budget is that it contemplates an expenditure on defence this year which is approximately three times the amount spent on defence in 1932-33, more than twice the amount spent - in 1933-34, and £1,800,000 more than the amount expended in 1935-36.

It would be churlish of me to deny that the budget makes clear a very substantial recovery in the Australian economic structure. The Opposition, no less than every other section of the community, is glad that this is the case. There were, in my judgment, four related factors which made possible this rejuvenation of Australian finances and improved economic conditions. These, which were bequeathed to this Government by its predecessor, were -

The savings available to governments since 1931, as the result of the steps taken under the Prime Ministership of the right honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin), in reducing the interest charges on the public debt.

The depreciation of the currency, which gave a decided support to the export industries.

This also was not an achievement effected by this Government.

Mr Casey:

– Nor by any government.

Mr CURTIN:

– No. This Government, while recognizing the important part this factor plays in the stimulation of exports, an effect to which the Treasurer referred, must know that it cannot justly attribute it to its own policy. The third factor was -

The expansion of credit by the issue of treasury-bills, thereby promoting an internal activity impossible at the time by any other measures.

The fourth factor, the effect of which is now being felt definitely, and which I contend has played a more important part in promoting Australian industrial expansion than any step taken by this Government for the diversion of trade, was -

The drastic action taken to curtail imports in order to avert national default in the first instance, and, as a related consequence, to increase the manufacture in Australia of goods upon which Australia had hitherto been dependent on external supplies.

The most striking statement in the budget speech is that which discloses the result of all government budgets for the last financial year, and which showed an aggregate surplus of £1,137. 000. It is striking when we recall that, when estimates were drawn up for the financial year 1931-32, the Commonwealth and the State governments were then facing an aggregate deficit of £40,000,000. Drastic action was taken to meet that situation. The outstanding adjustment made was in the reduction of the interest charge on public debts.

In the present budget speech no refer.ence is made to that action, hut highly eulogistic reference is made concerning what is described as the conspicuous success of the High Commissioner, Mr. Bruce, in connexion with London conversions. The aggregate savings to date in interest, due to London conversions, amount to £8,000,000. The aggregate savings to date on Australian conversions, carried out under tho management of the Scullin Government, amount to over £38,000,000, or £30,000,000 more than has been saved overseas. Moreover, the Australian conversions were the forerunner of the conversions in London. Without the Australian action, action overseas would have been impossible.

An equally important contribution to the success of the London conversions was the correction of our adverse trade balance, which was converted from a serious adverse balance to a credit one. That was also due to action taken by the Scullin Government. In fact, when Mr. Bruce was preparing the way for London conversions, he addressed a meeting of the London Chamber of Commerce, in the course of which he referred to the wonderful action taken in Australia in converting a £30,000,000 adverse trade balance into a. credit balance of £30,000,000, and he said that this was due to drastic tariff duties and prohibitions, and Mr. Bruce concluded by saying that by no other means could it have been accomplished. It was a fine tribute to the action of the Scullin Government, hut no mention was made in the report of Mr. Bruce’s speech as to what government had accomplished it. The Treasurer has been silent in regard to the effect of this factor on the economic and financial position of this country.

Mr Casey:

– I had no intention of delving into ancient history.

Mr CURTIN:

– In the budget speech the Treasurer heaps encomiums upon Mr.

Bruce for London conversions with an aggregate savings of £8,000,000, and passes unheeded the Australian conversions controlled by the Scullin Government, the savings on which aggregated £38,000,000. The Government could have acted more fairly in this respect. The Treasurer, while emphasizing the part that Mr. Bruce has played - and I am prepared to give Mr. Bruce credit in this direction - could also have paid some tribute to the greater part which had’ been played by another government. If I can avoid narrow-mindedness in the criticism of this budget, I ask the Government to be fair-minded in regard to the part which a Labour Government played in the rehabilitation of Australia.

It is worth remembering that the London debts were converted at a rate of interest equal to the then current rate of interest of such securities, whilst the. Australian conversion of £536,000,000 was at a rate of interest about half that of the ruling market rate of interest. My authority for this statement is the Australasian Insurance and Banking Record of July, 1931, which states -

The highest return shown for the new 1B38 maturity is f 8 2s. 8d. for existing 51 per cent. 1041 bonds.

Furthermore, when the right honorable member for Yarra was in London, he made strong representations to the British Government to have a substantial reduction made in the charges on our overseas war debt. This was followed up later on his return to Australia, and resulted in the suspension of the principal repayments. Later, under the Hoover moratorium, which was completed before the Scullin Government relinquished office, the interest on overseas war debt was also suspended.

Having made my own conclusions regarding the savings to the budgets of the States and of the Commonwealth, both separately and together, as to the outcome of the steps taken to reduce interest, I was so amazed at the total of this advantage to the present financial stability of Australia, that I invited the Treasury to supply .to me specific replies to a series of questions. It has done this in a series of tables which indicate that the cumulative effect of the savings in total to the end of the last financial year is £74,000,000, plus over another £9,000,000 in exchange.

Mr Beasley:

– What does that represent?

Mr CURTIN:

– It is the cumulative effect of the savings to the end of the last financial year.

Mr Casey:

– To all governments.

Mr CURTIN:

– Yes, the Commonwealth and the State governments, and this has been the most important and most dominant factor in our present favorable financial position. I feel sure that the truth of any statement which I may make in the course of this speech will be confirmed by the Treasurer if he cares to consult with his officers. Of this £74,000,000, not including exchange, £38,300,000 has been saved in respect of the debt domiciled in Australia and converted under the Financial Emergency Acts of 1981. An amount of £27,500,000 has been saved as the result of what was done during the the term of office of the Scullin Government in regard to the suspension of the war debt due to the British Government, in interest and repayment of principal.

This sum of £27,000,000 also includes the savings of £8,060,000 as the result of the conversion of the loans held by the public in Great Britain, and effected by Mr. Bruce. Therefore, of the total of £74,000,000 savings in interest and loan charges, only £8,000,000 can be credited to the present Government. The remaining £66,000,000 is the direct outcome of the steps taken by the right honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) to effect a reduction of the burden of interest upon governments in Australia.

It has to be pointed out that the figures are exclusive of exchange, which would have had to be paid in addition to what was paid had this enormous reduction of our total overseas debt not been effected. The exchange savings aggregate £7,000,000 on the suspension of war debt payments to the Government of the United Kingdom, and £2,040,000 on the interest savings on overseas public conversions.

The effect of these savings on last year’s budgetary position are stated by the Treasury to be as follows : -

Which results as regards the last two items in the approximate saving of £4,000,000 stated by the Treasurer in his budget-speech as having been effected on our overseas indebtedness.

The total aggregate saving in the last financial year arising, I submit, from the measures taken, and the lead given by the Scullin Government, to reduce interest generally on the Australian public debt, is £16,359,000. These savings are exclusive of exchange, which would appear to involve an additional £2,000,000 or about £18,250,000 in all to Australian governments in the latest financial year. Obviously, that is what has enabled the finances of Australian governments so to improve that the Treasurer was able to say that, taken as a whole, Australian budgets now showed a surplus. But it was the decision of the Scullin Government in 1930-31 to convert the public debt to a lower rate of interest which checked the downward trend in national finance, and gave it a new upward momentum.

It must be acknowledged that the basic impediment to governmental stability in Australia was the high cost of the public debt, and the huge demand it made on the proceeds of taxation for ail governments, thus diminishing the amount available for general administrative expenditure and services generally.

The fact is that only one-fifth of the savings in interest in relation to loans held by the public in Great Britain has come to the Commonwealth, and threesevenths of the savings in respect to the debt domiciled in Australia, the States deriving the remainder. Of the total interest savings of £16,359,000 in last year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

  1. Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

  1. Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be

year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

  1. Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be

year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be

year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be

year’s Australian governmental budgets, it can be said in respect of debt charges that the States have been saved a little less than £7,000,000, and the Commonwealth a little less than £9,500,000, these figures being exclusive of the consequential savings in exchange. . The following table bears out what I have been saying: -

The interest on short-term debt in Australia was reduced from6 per cent. to 4 per cent. by the Financial Emergency legislation of 1931. Later, reductions in the discount rate were made as follows : - 3½ per cent. after 26th October, 1932. 2 per cent. from 15th October, 1934.

The full annual saving indicated was not all realized in 1931-32 for the following reasons - (1)Reduced rates came into operation only on 1st August, 1931.

Interest due dates were redistributed by the Acts on an entirely new basis.

Both In 1931 and in subsequent years, the exact savins was further obscured by a number of causes, notably, the raising of new loans (both short-term and funded) and redemptions by the Sinking Fund.

  1. In addition an amount of approximately £1,408,000 is saved in exchange.
  2. The savings are shown in the year in which the conversion was carried out. Actually they were not fully realized until at least the following year.

Ill addition an amount of approximately £800,000 is saved in exchange.

The rate ofinterest on short-term debt in London at 30th June, 1931, ranged between 3 per cent. and 5 per cent. At the 30th June, 1936, it was 2 per cent. on £2,491,000, and 2½ per cent. on the balance, £30,884,000.

Conversions are not effected without cost, nor were treasury-bills issued without much unjustified profit accruing to trading banks. Bankers and brokers reap a rich harvest from public finances as these figures indicate -

The comparison, it will be seen, is strongly in favour of the Scullin Conversions.

Mr Casey:

– The conversions in London were carried out on the terms normally obtainable there, and which every one has to pay.

Mr.CURTIN.- That is admitted. There is a belief that the volume of exports has risen substantially, but while it has increased to some extent; the main factor affecting our export position is the increase in the value of exports. This is borne outby the following table: -

Quite obviously, that improvement of values is attributable to world economic conditions, and the Government would be

the last, I am sure, to claim that it is responsible in any material way.

I have repeatedly protested against the unjust incidence of Australian taxation on the lower wages of income. The direct taxes by the States reach down at flat rates in some instances to the very poorest. The indirect taxes of the Commonwealth disregard the ability of the consumer to pay tax. Since 1931-32, direct taxation has decreased by 8s. 4d. a head, whilst indirect taxation has increased by £21s. 3d. a head. Taxation revenue since 1931-32 has increased by £10,700,000, or £1 3s.1d. a head. This has happened under the regime of a government which is always talking about having decreased taxation. Throughout Australia the mistaken belief exists that it is Labour governments which always increase taxation, and anti-Labour governments which decrease it.

Sir Henry Gullett:

– The increased amount collected in taxation by this Government is due to the increasing prosperity of the country.

Mr CURTIN:

– It is largely due to the increased amount collected in customs duties, and the Government has deliberately encouraged imports so that it may obtain revenue with which to appease its wealthy supporters by remitting direct taxation. The taxation collected last yearby this Government was the greatest ever collected by any Commonwealth Government. Members of the present Government have stated that its opponents, the Labour party, would tax the public ruthlessly, yet this administration, like Satan reproving sin and professing to be a tax-reducing Government, actually taxes the public of Australia more per capita than has ever been done before in the Commonwealth.

This ability to reduce direct taxation has an explanation. The Customs revenue is easy money to obtain and through this source the present Government taxes the public. Ostensibly, an effective tariff would encourage Australian industries, but a tax-collecting tariff encourages the industries of other countries. It is important to bear that in mind. Revenue from the Customs during the regime of the Scullin Government yielded £36,700,000 in two years, which is an average of £18,350,000 per annum. During the last two years the present Government has collected from the Customs alone £53,300,000, which is an average of £26,650,000.

Sir Archdale Parkhill:

– The reduction of duties has been responsible for that.

Mr CURTIN:

– Yes, because it has encouraged the products of other countries to enter Australia at the expense of Australian industries. The Minister for Defence must know that, in order to reduce direct taxes upon which it has prided itself, the Government must obtain revenue from other sources, and, therefore, it has pleased the Administration to get the easy money through the Customs, regardless of the fact that in so doing encouragement is given to the industries of foreign countries, while at the same time the ability of the Commonwealth to meet its obligations abroad is endangered.

I propose to prove my general statement that the variations of taxes by the Government are for the benefit of persons on the higher ranges of income, more so than for those on the lower ranges. In this connexion, I direct attention to a table which has been circulated by the Treasurer and which shows the effects on the tax incidence on incomes derived from personal exertion, as follows: -

A saving of 15s.8d. per annum will be effected on a net income of £317 ; £3 4s. 3d. on an income of £583; and £15 7s.10d. on an income of £2,000. Thus, the man in receipt of an income nearly seven times as great as an income of £317 has been granted taxation relief to the extent of about 20 times as much as the person on a lower income.

SirArchdale Parkhill. -What amount of taxation would be payable by a man in receipt of £317 a year?

Mr.CURTIN.- About 10s.

SirArchdale Parkhill. - Then what more does the honorable gentleman want?

Mr.CURTIN. - For the further enlightenment of the Minister for Defence, I quote the position of a person in receipt of £383 a year, whichis the next lowest range of income. The saving to him will be £1 10s. 4d. per annum. The same criticism applies to the tax on property. Individuals who derive large revenue from property, stand to gain most by the abolition of this tax. For example, the reductions granted to persons in receipt of incomes from property of £317 and £383 a year are £4 10s. 4d. and £8 16s.11d. respectively, whichI contrast with the saving of £120 granted to the man in receipt of an income of £2,000. Any examination of that table justifies conclusively the generalization which I have made, that the greater weight of the savings granted by the Government to taxpayers is in the interests of the higher salaried taxpayer rather than the person on the lower rate of income.

For the five years ended 1938-37,the approximate value of concessions to the wealthy by way of taxation remissions to land and property owners, life assurance companies, shipping and other companies, amounts to approximately £7,000,000. Earlier in the day I made reference to the sales tax, and I do not propose to repeat my remarks on that subject during this debate. I invite the Treasurer to consider that, in view of the unequal weight of taxation as a whole upon the various abilities to pay in Australia, we should have a tax survey. The indirect taxation in the Common wealth is very heavy, and disregards the ability of the consumer to pay it. We need a survey for Australia which will show definitely: (a) the weight of taxation on different rates of income, and (b) how heavily indirect taxes bear on the lower incomes. A few moments ago honorable gentlemen were protesting emphatically about my statement that the incidence of taxa tion in the Commonwealth was unfair. I challenge them to authorize the survey I have suggested, so that we may be able to gain possession of the facts. If the indirect taxes fall mainly on luxury items, no cause for complaint exists; but it would be a mistake to regard a smoke or a glass of beer as a luxury item. If, as appears likely, the working classes are paying too large a proportion of their income in indirect taxes, steps should be taken to alter the system and make up the loss by a greater use of higher rates of taxation on the higher incomes.

Expenditure on defence has increased progressively during the last four years. In the present year it is estimated to be a little less than three times the amount spent in1932-33. and more than twice the expenditure during 1933-34. Since the signing of the Armistice about £100,000,000 has been spent by the Commonwealth on defence, but I regret that there is very little to show for it. Up to the year ended the 30th June last, war and repatriation services, including war pensions and interest and sinking fund have cost Australia £816,000,000. In this financial year war and repatriation services are estimated to cost a little less than £19,000,000. Adding the defence expenditure of £8,809,000 to this total, it will be seen that the cost for this financial year of the last war and for defence is over £27,750,000. This is a staggering figure for a people so few in numbers as we are, to pay in one year. I call the attention of the public of Australia to the fact that defence obliges this Parliament to find £19,000,000, as the result of the costs operating in respect of the last war, while, in addition, we have to find £8,809,000 to defend ourselves against what is said to be the prospective next war. War in all its forms apparently can suck the vitality out of peoples, yet every government and most political parties, animated by the fear of what may happen to them, yield up vast sums of money for this purpose, but they behave very stintedly in regard to what we call the humane projects of peace.

The Labour party will do its very utmost to overcome the causes which may lead to war. As a first essential it declares that Australia should aim at the establishment and maintenance of friendly relations with other nations. We should not be provocative in our international policies and contacts. That isthe positive side of the appeal of the Labour party to the world. It entertains no aggressive ambitions and hopes that other countries will treat the Commonwealth as we treat them. The world is in a state of grievous inflammation and the Labour movement declares that a Labour government will take adequate measures to ensure the safety of Australia against aggression. I emphasize that defence means defence against the threat of war and fascism and is not designed for any other purpose. In a sentence, the Labour party stands for peace and the security of Australia. It believes that the foundations of patriotism are internal order and content. A dissatisfied and unhappy people are vulnerable. Improved social conditions, the assurance of employment, and the building up of the economic order on a basis of justice as between citizens are essential conditions for any effective preparation for national defence. Military gymnastics and the marching here and there of men in attractive uniforms are not defence. They give but the shadow. The reality in defence is the existence of the essential industries to arm, feed, clothe and transport by sea, land and air the forces of the Commonwealth. Military, naval and aerial organization must be made as independent of external supplies as it is within the capacity of the country to organise such supplies. Weapons have to be replaced, and munitions can only be provided continuously by the existence of means for their production. This has been the basis upon which the present defensive power of the great nations has been made possible. Australia has to act similarly. We need for the Navy more docks than we have at present. We need for the Army a greater industrial organization than now exists; and for our air fleet we need aerodromes and aeroplane facilities. We need oil storages and reserves, and a long line of land bases for repairs, replacements, and refuelling away from the coast. Naturally, the fuel required must be at present the subject of acquisition and storage. We should, however, exhaust every possibility of exploiting the natural and artificial sources of oil in the Commonwealth. We need, too, a national survey of all industries, in order to have the requisite data available in. regard to their potential value for defence purposes. I repeat what I said last night, that the cost of defence must be borne by the entire community, because it is solely for the protection of the community. It is a fundamental principle that no individual ought to be permitted to profit to the amount of one penny out of the provision of anything that is needed for the essential defence of the country in which he lives. If there is one purpose more than any other for which the rich should pay, and for which capital ought to be willing to provide production without profit, it is for defence.

Sir Archdale Parkhill:

– Are the homes of the workers of no importance?

Mr.CURTIN. - The homes of the workers are defended by the manhood of the country. The complete control of the provision of munitions and other war material of all kinds should not be available for private profit-making, but should be an essential and a major measure of Commonwealth policy.

I have said that it is the quality and the quantity of our people which constitutes the foundation of our capacity for defence. The Government apparently believes that we have not a sufficient population, and that it ought to be increased. The Attorney-General (Mr. Menzies), for example, in a series of speeches which he made recently, appears to have advocated a population of 20,000,000 persons for Australia. In one speech he said -

How could we proceed to have 20,000,000 people? We should talk in terms of migrating British stock to this country.

He went on to say that public opinion in Australia was very hesitant in the matter of migration, and that one had to be very tactful, adding -

He was afraid that he must be one of the first to go thoroughlyuntactfully into the matter.

I submit that there is every reason to believe that the honorable gentleman has gone untactfuly into it, because the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the

Dominions, the Marquis of Hartington, said recently -

I do not think I am indiscreet in saying that the Dominions Office has recently had an opportunity of consulting with Australian statesmen who are visiting England, and I think there is a real ground for hoping that a beginning may he made within a few months towards a resumption of immigration.

I have asked repeatedly to be advised as to what negotiations have been proceeding, and the answer has invariably been that no finality has been reached. Indeed, the Prime Minister (Mr. Lyons) has stated, sufficiently definitely for me to believe him, that negotiations in regard to schemes of migration have not been proceeding in any practical way. I do not know whether that is the case or not. In any event, the Opposition says that it will not support grandiose schemes for mass migration. It says that such schemes have failed humanly and economically. But it will support schemes that are designed to make the standards of life in Australia better than they are, and to promote a more virile population than we have, because it considers that those two factors make the most effective contribution which could be made to our national competence.

Recently the Treasurer (Mr. Casey) asked an audience at Adelaide not to accept conclusions which I had presented in regard to the need for increased social services in Australia, in order to provide for the betterment of the quality of the Australian people.

Mr Casey:

– I was correcting some errors into which the honorable gentlemen had unconsciously slipped.

Mr CURTIN:

– The honorable gentleman said that it was fantastic to use the data of the census year in regard to bread-winners as being applicable to the present time.

Mr Casey:

– Hear, hear!

Mr CURTIN:

– I ask the honorable gentleman, on what data he now proposes to ascertain to what extent an extension of social services is either necessary or desirable. If he intends to disregard the census data of 1933 in respect of the disclosures concerning bread-winners, of what earthly use was it to incur expenditure in order to obtain that information?For census purposes a bread-winner, broadly speaking, is neither more nor less than a person of any age or sex who has, or seeks to have, any money coming in. The honorable gentleman would have us believe that the category of breadwinner in the census table relates to any person who has or may have an income. He claims that it is far removed from the popular conception of the head of a family. Very well. [ shall give him another set of conclusions, based upon another portion of the census disclosures, and leave him to deal with them. I remind him, however, that under the War Service Homes Act, in assessing the amount which the Government considers that a widow is able to pay weekly, the wages of the children of the widow are taken into consideration. Although the Treasurer refuses to have those children classified as breadwinners, in connexion with the distribution of income, he takes into account the fact that they are breadwinners in determining what the widow shall pay weekly for a war service home. This is true also in regard to sustenance relief. In all of the States the earnings of the children are taken into account. Even in respect of certain phases of invalid pensions, the ability adequately to maintain an applicant is taken into account. Chief Judge Dethridge, speaking from the bench of the Federal Arbitration Court in Sydney recently, declared that, with the increasing mechanization of industry, room for adult employment was becoming less and less. He added that juniors were doing much of the work performed by adults, and said that the country was up against a tremendous problem in finding employment for adult workers. The Treasurer would refuse to allow me to classify these juniors as breadwinners, although the Statistician has so classified them in his returns. He tells me that I am to disregard the whole compilation, although the Chief Judge of the Arbitration Court says that the earnings of these juniors are, in effect, made at the expense of their elders, in many cases their own fathers.

I shall deal now with the heads of families only; that is to say, those who have dependent children. I am quite positive that the Treasurer cannot fault this table. It deals not with breadwinners at large, but only with persons who have dependent children under sixteen years of age, classified according to income. Summarized, this table shows that parents receiving £3 a week and less had 50 per cent, of the dependent children under sixteen years of age; parents receiving £4 a week and less had 67 per cent. ; those receiving £5 a week and less had 80 per cent. ; and those receiving over £5 a week had only 20 per cent., the total number of dependent children being 1,913,000. The details are as follow: -

Mr CASEY:
UAP

– I think that my criticism applies also to that table; but I should like to examine it carefully.

Mr CURTIN:

– I do not think that the honorable gentleman’s criticism does apply to this table. If he will not accept my statement, surely he will have some regard for statements that have been made by his colleague, the Minister for Health (Mr. Hughes). In April, 1936, that right honorable gentleman said -

Until we have at least reduced the number of unemployed people to pre-depression figures, migrants of any sort cannot bc absorbed. lt must be clear that at the present time throughout Australia, notwithstanding the improvement of the general position, there is a vast number of persons whose plight is unrelieved and whose circumstances ought to have a paramount claim on the attention of this Parliament. In Victoria recently there were nearly 2,000 applications for permission for girls of fourteen years of age to work in factories. Their salaries would range from 8s. to 14s. a week, and according to Mr. Regan, State Permit Inspector, many of them would be dismissed at the age of seventeen years or eighteen years. Many of them also asked to be allowed to work at lower than the prescribed rates of pay. In the central police district of Sydney, 500 orders to vacate premises have been issued during the last eight months, compared with 476 for the corresponding period of last year. I remind the Treasurer that the disclosures which have led to the nutrition inquiry, that the Government has agreed to conduct, are such as to warrant the fear that the general standard and quality of our people is undergoing serious deterioration. The latest annual report of the Melbourne City Council infectious diseases office shows that, of 1,000 children between the ages of two years and six years who were medically examined, only 17 per cent, were deemed to show no defects, and that the increasing evidence of malnutrition is very marked. At the age of two years, 16 per cent, of the children were ( under weight, at the age of three years 18 per cent., at the age of four years, 23 per cent.,. and at the age of five years, 43 per cent. I submit that that represents an aspect of the problems facing Australia with which the Government ought to have dealt. I believe that provision could have been made in this year’s budget to deal with it. Of the £1,068,000 which is to be devoted to the reduction of the accumulated deficit, £760,000 could have been used to complete the restoration of invalid and oldage pensions to £1 a week, or to deal with the problem of those who, even now, have neither wages nor work.

I direct the Treasurer’s attention to the extraordinary increase of the total balances carried forward in trust funds. At the 1st July last there .appears to have been an “increase which the Treasurer should later explain. The amount carried forward at the 1st July, 1931, was £13,300,000. In 1932, it was £16,000,000 ; in 3933, it was £21,000,000; in 1934, it was £21,400,000; in 1935, it was £21,400,000; and in 1936, it was £24,200,000. [Leave to continue given.] I am impelled to the belief that some part of these funds can be regarded as a legitimate offset to the accumulated deficit. The Treasurer should explain the position. Evidently he does not regard the accumulated deficit as a formidable thing, which should be dealt with as a matter of policy. I submit that he could have used, in a variety of other ways, the -£1,063,000 which is to be devoted to the reduction of the deficit.

Concluding his speech, the Treasurer stated that the Government was glad to be able, by this budget, to improve the position of every section of the Australian community. I suggest that this claim rests on very doubtful premises. There is still a vast amount of poverty in Australia. Some thousands capable of being employed are still unemployed, and many others have been so debilitated by the effects of the depression that they must rely mainly upon State assistance. “When all has been said and done, unemployment still remains the crucial test of economic and social policy, and the real level of economic recovery is to he measured by the level of social wellbeing. A community which does not ensure full and adequate opportunity to its citizens to contribute, by their work, to their own welfare and the common progress of the nation, has failed to resolve the fundamental problem of statesmanship. An extension of social services, and the organization of public employment, appear to me to be unavoidable steps satisfactorily to ensure the real progress of the Commonwealth.

I put it to the Government that economic stability and the maintenance of prices depend upon the diffusion of adequate purchasing power among the people at large. A small number of large buyers, possessed of high incomes, consume less, and less regularly than do a large number of small buyers, even though they have small incomes. A shortage of income on the part of the wage earners not only produces misery for them, hut is also economically bad for the community generally. Business activity in all its forms depends mainly on the volume of spending, and it must he apparent that manufacturers and merchants

Mr. Curtin cannot sell unless they find customers ready and able to buy. During the depression, the scale of social services, though limited, contributed greatly towards the relief of Australia from what I shall describe as the more serious consequences of world economic upheaval. There are, however, in this country, classes of sufferers from the social order which are large in dimensions. Thousands of people are now on part-time relief work, and their incomes do not approximate the basic wage, because they have to stand down for such periods throughout the year as make it impossible for them to enjoy anything like tha standard of living which the courts fix as the minimum. To lift this class up above the slough of their present plight was, I believe, the paramount obligation of the Treasurer. He could also have given us some instalment of the provision that he should make for the initiation of a system of unemployment insurance. He could also have recognized the claims of those families with dependent children in which there is no male breadwinner, and he could have raised the old-age pension to £1 a week.

I believe that this budget confirms th« advantages of capitalism to a class limited in number, and minimizes in only very slight degree the disadvantage* which the system imposes in varying measure upon the majority. I have th, feeling that the present financial position of the Commonwealth Government should have enabled it to envisage courses of action whereby we should no longer be obliged to accept the unsatisfactory conditions of life which are to be found, too markedly, a feature of our great cities. The Government should have indicated, by appropriate budgetary provisions’, its cognizance of the need for lessening the hours of labour in our established industries. The tyranny imposed upon large numbers of our citizens by economic insecurity could have been abated by a more generous regard for the welfare of the many, as distinct from the monetary interests of the relatively few. In these outstanding aspects of social adaptation to the changing economic order, the budget suffers defects far outweighing its merits.

Progress reported.

page 347

FINANCIAL RELIEF BILL (No. 2) 1936

Bill returned from the Senate without amendment.

page 347

SOUTH AUSTRALIA GRANT BILL 1936

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Governor-General’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Casey) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund a sum for the purposes of financial assistance to the State of South Australia.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Casey and Mr. Thorby do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Casey, and read a first time.

page 347

WESTERN AUSTRALIA GRANT BILL 1936

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Governor-General’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Casey) agreed to -

That it is expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund a sum for the purposes of financial assistance to the State of Western Australia.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Casey and Mr. Thorby do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Casey, and read a first time.

page 347

TASMANIA GRANT BILL 1936

Message recommending appropriation reported.

In committee (Consideration of Governor-General’s message) :

Motion (by Mr. Casey) agreed to -

That itis expedient that an appropriation of revenue be made for the purposes of a bill for an act to grant and apply out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund a sum for the purposes of financial assistance to the State of Tasmania.

Resolution reported.

Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.

Ordered -

That Mr. Casey and Mr. Thorby do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.

Bill brought up by Mr. Casey, and read a first time.

page 347

ADJOURNMENT

Motion (by Mr. Casey) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr.MAKIN (Hindmarsh) [3.29].- It is intended by the Postal Department to reconstruct and renovate the post office at Thebarton, in the Hindmarsh electorate. This building is inconveniently situated, and does not meet the needs of the locality. Representations have been made to the Postmaster-General on this subject, but the Government remains adamant. Apparently it prefers to renovate, at considerable expense, a building inconveniently situated and quite out of keeping with the importance of the district. The existing post office was taken over by the ‘Commonwealth when Federation was consummated, and has for very many years served the community as its chief postal centre, but with the passage of the years the Thebarton district has extended in many directions. To-day the main shopping centre is at Henley Beach-road, some distance from the post office. At one time the corporation offices were near the post office, but the council, realizing that the main business centre of the town was moving to Henley Beachroad, built a new town hall and municipal offices on that important thoroughfare. It is only natural, therefore, that the community should expect the Government to follow such a reasonable example. It would be ridiculous to spend a large amount of money to renovate a building that is antiquated and inconveniently situated. Due regard should be paid to the development of the district. The Thebarton Corporation has earnestly requested the Postmaster-General to build a new post office for the town on a more convenient site, and the keenest disappointment has been expressed throughout the district at the apparent indifference with which those representations have been received. I urge the Government to reconsider its policy in connexion with this building. It is many years since a postal survey of the area was made, and I am sure that if closer attention were given to this subject the Government would realize the wisdom of building a new post office on a more central site. Seeing that money is now available for new postal buildings and renovations the time is opportune for action. The people affected fear that if the present building is renovated, as is now proposed, they will be required to suffer the inconveniences of the present situation for very many years.

I wish also to express my disappointment that postal deliveries and clearances are not being provided in keeping with the importance and population of some parts of the Hindmarsh division. As the Postmaster-General’s Department has shown a surplus of receipts over expenditure in the last two or three years, it is not unreasonable to request it to provide facilities in keeping with the public needs. I have in mind ‘one area of 260 residences in the Hindmarsh division which has not yet been provided with a postal delivery. This is unfair and unreasonable. I appeal to the Government to provide them with adequate postal telegraphic and telephonic facilities. The essential needs of every growing community should be met.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

. - in reply - I assure the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) that the representations he has made, and particularly his request for the construction of a new post office at Thebarton, will be brought prominently under the notice of the Postmaster-General.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 348

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Taxation Remissions

Mr.Francis asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. What is the annual value of taxation remissions granted or to be granted during the years 1932-33, 1933-34, 1934-35, 1935-36, and 1936-37, under the following headings: - Income tax, land tax, sales tax, primage, customs and excise, entertainments tax, and other taxes?
  2. What is the total tax remitted for the five years mentioned above under the same headings having regard to the cumulative effect of remissions operative for more than one year?
  1. Annual value of taxation remissions granted or to be granted during the years 1932-33, 1933-34, 1934-35, 1935-36, and 1936-37-
  1. Taxation actually remitted or to be remitted for the five years 1932-33 to 1936-37, allowing for the cumulative effect of the remissions, is -

Remissions grantedin any year are not in all cases effective for the whole of that year, and the figures given allow for the time lag. All amounts shown above represent the values of the remissions at the time such remissions were made. Those made in previous years represent a much greater saving to the taxpayer in 1936-37 than in the year in which they were made. For instance, the remission of ?500,000 in income taxation in 1932-33 would be worth a much greater amount at the present date owing to generally increased incomes, and sales tax remissions shown for would be ridiculous to spend a large amount of money to renovate a building that is antiquated and inconveniently situated. Due regard should be paid to the development of the district. The Thebarton Corporation has earnestly requested the Postmaster-General to build a new post office for the town on a more convenient site, and the keenest disappointment has been expressed throughout the district at the apparent indifference with which those representations have been received. I urge the Government to reconsider its policy in connexion with this building. It is many years since a postal survey of the area was made, and I am sure that if closer attention were given to this subject the Government would realize the wisdom of building a new post office on a more central site. Seeing that money is now available for new postal buildings and renovations the time is opportune for action. The people affected fear that if the present building is renovated, as is now proposed, they will be required to suffer the inconveniences of the present situation for very many years.

I wish also to express my disappointment that postal deliveries and clearances are not being provided in keeping with the importance and population of some parts of the Hindmarsh division. As the Postmaster-General’s Department has shown a surplus of receipts over expenditure in the last two or three years, it is not unreasonable to request it to provide facilities in keeping with the public needs. I have in mind ‘one area of 260 residences in the Hindmarsh division which has not yet been provided with a postal delivery. This is unfair and unreasonable. I appeal to the Government to provide them with adequate postal telegraphic and telephonic facilities. The essential needs of every growing community should be met.

Mr CASEY:
Treasurer · Corio · UAP

. - in reply - I assure the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Makin) that the representations he has made, and particularly his request for the construction of a new post office at Thebarton, will be brought prominently under the notice of the Postmaster-General.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

House adjourned at 3.38 p.m.

page 348

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

The following answers to questions were circulated: -

Taxation Remissions.

Mr.Francis asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

What is the annual value of taxation remissions granted or to be granted during the years 1932-33, 1933-34, 1934-35, 1935-36, and 1936-37, under the following headings: - Income tax, land tax, sales tax, primage, customs and excise, entertainments tax, and other taxes?

What is the total tax remitted for the five years mentioned above under the same headings having regard to the cumulative effect of remissions operative for more than one year?

Remissions grantedin any year are not in all cases effective for the whole of that year, and the figures given allow for the time lag. All amounts shown above represent the values of the remissions at the time such remissions were made. Those made in previous years represent a much greater saving to the taxpayer in 1936-37 than in the year in which they were made. For instance, the remission of ?500,000 in income taxation in 1932-33 would be worth a much greater amount at the present date owing to generally increased incomes, and sales tax remissions shown for various years would be of a much greater value to-day owing to the increased volume of business.

StrengthofMilitia:Recruiting Campaign.

Mr Francis:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. What is. the present establishment of each of the several units of the Australian Military Forces? 2.What is the strength to-day of each of the units?
  2. Is the Minister’s recruiting campaign meeting with the response anticipated?

Fisheries Investigations

Mr Barnard:
BASS, TASMANIA

d asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. How much of the sum of £20,000 provided in the Estimates for 1933-34 for the purchase of a fishing trawler and exploratory work in connexion with pelagic or surface swimming fish, has been expended to date?
  2. How much lias been spent upon experiments in connexion with the canning of Australian fish ?
  3. What amount has been spent upon the . purchase of a trawler?
Mr Lyons:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The total expenditure incurred in connexion with fisheries investigations to the 30th June, 1936, amounted to £2,143.
  2. No expenditure has yet been incurred in connexion with experiments in the canning of Australian fish. Arrangements have been made for experimental work to be carried out by the Food Preservation and Transport Section of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research in connexion with the preservation of fish by quick freezing, canning, &c., at laboratories and experimental cold chambers now being erected in Sydney. Owing, however, to delay in getting possession of the building in which the laboratory and chambers are to be erected, it willnot be possible to make a start on this work until early next year.
  3. £281. This amount covers the cost of plans and specifications. After considerable investigations, which have entailed obtaining information from Great Britain, the United States of America and Canada, the type of fisheries vessel has now been decided upon, and the tender of the Melbourne Harbour Trust Commissioners of £17,451 for its construction was accepted during August, 1936.

Imperial Air Service Terminus

Mr Mahoney:
DENISON, TASMANIA

y asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Have representations been made to him by Tasmanian members of this Parliament, and by the Hobart Chamber of Commerce, that the terminus of the Imperial airservice should be at Hobart?
  2. Will he state whether the Cabinet has yet come to a decision in the matter, and whether he cangive an assurance that the terminus will be at Hobart?
Mr Lyons:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Yes.
  2. The matter is receiving consideration in connexion with the air mail proposals. various years would be of a much greater value to-day owing to the increased volume of business.

StrengthofMilitia:Recruiting Campaign.

Mr Francis:

s asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. What is. the present establishment of each of the several units of the Australian Military Forces? 2.What is the strength to-day of each of the units?
  2. Is the Minister’s recruiting campaign meeting with the response anticipated?
Sir Archdale Parkhill:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows:-

  1. Present divisional establishment of each of the several units of the Australian Military Forces (Militia) -
  2. The strength of each of the units is not available. Expansion is in progress, and reports of strengths are due on the 30th September.
  3. Yes.

Fisheries Investigations

Mr Barnard:

d asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. How much of the sum of £20,000 provided in the Estimates for 1933-34 for the purchase of a fishing trawler and exploratory work in connexion with pelagic or surface swimming fish, has been expended to date?
  2. How much lias been spent upon experiments in connexion with the canning of Australian fish ?
  3. What amount has been spent upon the . purchase of a trawler?
Mr Lyons:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. The total expenditure incurred in connexion with fisheries investigations to the 30th June, 1936, amounted to £2,143.
  2. No expenditure has yet been incurred in connexion with experiments in the canning of Australian fish. Arrangements have been made for experimental work to be carried out by the Food Preservation and Transport Section of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research in connexion with the preservation of fish by quick freezing, canning, &c., at laboratories and experimental cold chambers now being erected in Sydney. Owing, however, to delay in getting possession of the building in which the laboratory and chambers are to be erected, it willnot be possible to make a start on this work until early next year.
  3. £281. This amount covers the cost of plans and specifications. After considerable investigations, which have entailed obtaining information from Great Britain, the United States of America and Canada, the type of fisheries vessel has now been decided upon, and the tender of the Melbourne Harbour Trust Commissioners of £17,451 for its construction was accepted during August, 1936.

Imperial Air Service Terminus

Mr Mahoney:

y asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Have representations been made to him by Tasmanian members of this Parliament, and by the Hobart Chamber of Commerce, that the terminus of the Imperial airservice should be at Hobart?
  2. Will he state whether the Cabinet has yet come to a decision in the matter, and whether he cangive an assurance that the terminus will be at Hobart?
Mr Lyons:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows : -

  1. Yes.
  2. The matter is receiving consideration in connexion with the air mail proposals.

Licensed Broadcasting Stations.

Mr.R. Green asked the Minister representing the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

What is the number of licensed broadcasting (a) national stations, (b) commercial stations, and (c) experimental stations, in Australia?

What amount was paid during the last financial year to each of these classes?

Sir Archdale Parkhill:
UAP

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follows: -

  1. There are fifteen national, 73 commercial, and 1,555 experimental stations.
  2. No payment is made to commercial or experimental stations. Licensed listeners’ fees, which during the financial year 1935-36 totalled £861,724, are devoted to the national service.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 18 September 1936, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1936/19360918_reps_14_151/>.