House of Representatives
18 September 1927

10th Parliament · 1st Session

  1. House of Representatives
  2. 10th Parliament
  3. 1927

Mr. Speaker (Hon. Sir Littleton Groom) took the chair at 11 a.m. and read prayers.

page 1628

QUESTION

GARDEN ISLAND WHARFAGE

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the construction of wharfage at Garden Island for the accommodation of the two new 10,000-ton cruisers which are expected here next year, and which work was authorized by the Parliament during the last session in Melbourne, has not yet been started owing to an appeal by the Commonwealth to the Privy Council regarding the ownership of Garden Island?
  2. What is the present position of such appeal, and when may a decision in respect of same be expected ?
Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
Honorary Minister · CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Yes.
  2. The papers have been forwarded within the last few days by the officials of the High Court to the Privy Council, and it rests with the Privy Council to name a date on which the appeal shall be heard.

page 1628

QUESTION

EDIE CREEK GOLDFIELD

Services of Mrs. Booth - Income Tax on Gold Proceeds.

Mr D CAMERON:
BRISBANE. QLD · NAT

asked the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

  1. In view of the reference in the Report of the Royal Commission on the Edie Creek (New Guinea) Leases which reads: - “Through unexpected and unavoidable delay at Kavieng, Mr. Lambert was not able to commence work in the District of Morobe as soon as was arranged, and consequently the burden of nursing many European and native patients fell for a time on Mrs. Booth at her home on the Bulolo. Her previous training as a nurse, her experience of the Territory, and her capability and sympathy enabled her to render invaluable service, and she undoubtedly saved many lives” - will the Minister inform the House of the details of Mrs. Booth’s work in nursing the sick miners and natives.
  2. Has the Government recognized Mrs. Booth’s courage and devotion to the sick, in circumstances which appear to be unique in the history of New Guinea, and under exceptionally difficult conditions.
Mr MARR:
Minister of Home and Territories · PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The replies to the honor able member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. The only detailed information I have on the subject is that contained in the evidence given before theRoyal Commissioner who recently inquired into certain mining matters in New Guinea. This shows that Mrs. Booth arrived at the goldfields on the Bulolo River in September, 1924, and that the rush to the Edie Creek field commenced in September, 1026. During the early stages of the rush, and for some time after the Administration had established a hospital on the field, Mrs. Booth rendered conspicuously valuable service in attending to the sick, and her ministrations extended to both natives and Europeans. She converted a “ boys’ “ house into a hospital for natives, and nursed white patients in her own home. The greatest number of cases which came under her care at any one time was 32, the total number of patients nursed by her being about 130. In additionto drugs and dressings supplied to her by the Administration, she used a considerable quantity of her own stock of medicines. She also supplied both natives and miners with green vegetables from her own garden, for which she refused to accept payment.
  2. The Government deeply appreciates the courage and devotion to the sick displayed by Mrs. Booth in the trying circumstances referred to. She has been personallycongratulated and thanked by the Minister responsible for the control of New Guinea, and it is proposed to make mention of her work in the report to be furnished to the League of Nations on the Administration of New Guinea during the year 1926-1927.
Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

  1. Has his attention been drawn to the report of a public meeting held at Edie Creek (New Guinea) on the loth instant, where indignation was expressed at the imposition by the Government of income taxon gold proceeds?
  2. Is it a fact, as stated atthe meeting, that the proceeds of. gold from New Guinea are to be subjected to deductions for income tax to the extent of £35 12s.6d. on £1,000, the rate rising on a graduated scale?
  3. Is it a fact that the miners dispose of the quantities of gold they obtain to the buyers, and that in addition to the commission a. deduction is made to cover the income tax on the purchase price, and that should an adjustment be made, as stated by the Minister recently, the gold trader would benefit at the expense of the miner should a refund be made. 4.Willhe make a thorough investigation into this matter to see that no injustice is done to the miners on the field?
Dr EARLE PAGE:
Treasurer · COWPER, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP

– The Income Tax Assessment Billnow before the House provides for the complete exemption from income tax of profits from gold-mining in the Territory of New Guinea. The exemption will apply to all the profits derived in the financial year ended 30th June, 1927, and subsequent years. Any payments of tax already made in respect of profits derived in the financial year ending on 30th June last, or in the present financial year, will be refunded after the law is amended. The amendment referred to is the first amendment made by Clause 8 of the bill.

page 1629

QUESTION

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE

Pay

Mr MARKS:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that many grades in the Royal Australian Air Force personnel are in receipt of pay below that of similar grades in private firms?
  2. Considering the importance of the work performed by the Royal Australian Air force and that the best possible mechanics should be obtained, will consideration be given to making their minimum pay equal to that obtainable outside the service.
Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are : -

  1. Yes; but in comparing rates of pay in the Royal Australian Air Force and in private firms, cognizance must be taken of the fact that the Air Force offers regular employment and certainconcessions and privileges having monetary value such as annual leave, sick leave, superannuation benefits, free medical attention, etc., which are not normally enjoyed by civil tradesmen in private firms.
  2. A revision of Air Force rates of pay is at present under consideration.

page 1629

QUESTION

SURVEY SLOOP GERANIUM

Mr MARKS:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the R.A.N. survey sloop Geranium has been ordered from her survey work back to Sydney, and placed out of commission?
  2. If so, has this position arisen through funds not being available for such survey work ?
  3. If so, in order that such important work may not be interrupted, is it possible to place upon the naval estimates the amount necessary for such purposes?
Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Yes.
  2. Partly from the necessity of conserving available funds, and also because members of her crew are required in connexion with preparation for the commissioning of the new cruisers.
  3. The Government have provided for the surveying vessel Moresby being kept in commission, and it is not expected that it will be possible to further extend surveying operations this financial year.

page 1629

QUESTION

PETROLEUM MINING

Mr SCULLIN:
YARRA, VICTORIA

asked the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

What practical experience has Dr. Woolnough, the Federal petroleum expert, had in regard to petroleum mining?

Mr MARR:
NAT

– Dr. Woolnough is an eminent geologist who has been engaged to assist and to advise the Commonwealth Government in the determination of all geological questions arising in connexion withthe search for oil in Australiaand the Territories. He has had no experience of act. 1 drilling, a matter in respect of which advice is sought from expert drillers.

page 1630

QUESTION

CANBERRA

Gas Supply - Residences of GovernorGeneral and Prime Minister.

Mr MARKS:

asked the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

  1. Whether his attentionhas been drawn to a statement in the Sydney Sun of the 15th instant attributed to Mr. Andrew Wilson, the general manager of the Australian Gaslight Company, and which, inter alia, is as follows: - “Afiat has been issued by the powers who control the development of Canberra, that Canberra shall be an ‘ all electric city ‘, and that gas will not be permitted to intrude within the sanctuary thus to be created. He would like to know whether the residents of Canberra had been consulted before the de cision was made, were they to be compelled to do without what was elsewhere a. necessity of modern city life, and were comparisons of. the costs of domestic heating and cooking as performed by electricity and gas made before the decision was arrived at.”
  2. Is the position such as described by Mr. Wilson, and, if so, will the residents of Canberra have a further opportunity of bringing their demands forward for consideration?
Mr MARR:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. Yes.
  2. The position is not as described, the comparative merits of gas and electricity for domestic purposes, in the circumstances at present existing in Canberra, having been thoroughly investigated by the Federal Capital Commission.

Mr. P. C. Holmes Hunt, consulting gas engineer, was invited to report upon the question of the installation of a gas supply, whilst the chief engineer of the commission was instructed to report upon the electricity aspect after collaboration with the chiefelectrical engineer of the Works and Railways Department.

The reports obtained from these sources were carefully considered by the commission.

Realizing that an economic loss on domestic lighting, heating, and cooking utilities was inevitable for some years, and that it was sounder to concentrate upon one system than to incur increased losses on two separate systems, the commission came to the conclusion that, for engineering and economic reasons, it should meet the position by making electricity available at attractive rates.

Before reaching this decision consideration was given to representations madeby the

Public Service (Canberra) Committee on. behalf of the public servants, who, when transferred to Canberra, would form the majorportion of the population.

Mr COLEMAN:
REID, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -

When will an answer be supplied to the question asked on the 19th October last by the honorable member for Reid, relating to the respective costs of the Governor-General’s and Prime Minister’s residences?

Mr MARR:

– I have now received from the Federal Capital Commission the following particulars: -

  1. Government House, Canberra: Schedule of cost of works -
  1. Prime Minister’s residence, Canberra: Schedule of cost of works: -

page 1631

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN MATCH PRODUCTION

Mr GREGORY:
SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

What was the output in gross number of boxes of matches of the Australian match factories during the year 1 925-26?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The information will be obtained as far as possible.

page 1631

QUESTION

AMERICAN BANDS AND MUSICIANS

Mr SCULLIN:

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

In view of complaints being made that there is an increasing tendency on the part of some companies engaged in catering for the people’s amusement to contract for the introduction of American bands and other musicians for other than artistic purposes, will he consider the application of existing or further legislation for the purpose of safeguarding the interests of Australians?

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The existing Contract Immigrants Act only applies to persons proposed to be introducedto the Commonwealth to engage in manual labour. The question of extending its scope to enable it to be made ‘applicable to musicians and theatrical artists has already received consideration on several occasions, but it had been thought undesirable to extend it to the professional or other classes outside those coming within the general definition of “manual labour.” The matter will, however, receive further consideration at an early date.

page 1631

QUESTION

RADIUM

Mr LACEY:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Minister for

Repatriation, upon notice -

  1. Did Dr. Cumpston, in a letter to the Australian Radium Corporation dated 23rd July last, state that no radium was to be ordered, and that he would communicate with the Corporation if an order was contemplated?
  2. If so, did Dr. Cumpston communicate as promised with the Australian Radium Corporation before placing the order with the Radium Beige Company; if not, why not?
Sir NEVILLE HOWSE:
NAT

-The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

  1. On 26th July, Dr. Cumpston in reply to a letter from the Australian Radium Corporation dated 23rd July, said, “ I have no knowledge of any decision of the Government to purchase radium. Should this question arise, I shall see your letter is put before the Minister”.
  2. See answer toNo. 1.

page 1631

QUESTION

RIVER MURRAY WATERS SCHEME

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice -

  1. Is it a fact that the River Murray Waters Commission contemplates a cessation or diminution of work on the locks in South Australia ?
  2. If so, will he, in view of the large number already unemployed, make representations to the Commission to continue this important work?
Mr HILL:
Minister for Works and Railways · ECHUCA, VICTORIA · CP

– The River Murray Commission has not considered the question of cessation or diminution of works on the weirs and locks under the control of the Constructing Authority for South Australia.

page 1631

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN COMMONWEALTH LINE OF STEAMERS

Estimated Earnings

Mr C RILEY:
COOK, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; FLP from 1931

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Has he received any summarized statement or report from the Commonwealth Shipping Board regarding the estimated earnings and voyage results of the Commonwealth Line for the past six months, as from the 1st April, 1927 ?
  2. If so, will he make available any such report or statement for the information of honorable members ?
Mr BRUCE:
Minister for External Affairs · FLINDERS, VICTORIA · NAT

– The only information I have regarding the estimated earnings and voyage results of the Commonwealth Line as from 1st April last is contained in a telegram I received from the Commonwealth Shipping Board; as follow: - “ Following estimated result operations for six months, 1st April, 1927, to 30th September, 1927 - Bay steamers outward to Australia, profit £28,322; homeward to United Kingdom, loss £26,504;. Dale Steamers outward to Australia, profit £2,092; homeward to United Kingdom, loss £9,550. Total result voyage operations, loss £5,040. Add office expenses, less brokerages and commissions, £35,000; depreciation £85,000, interest on debentures £118,140. Estimated total loss for half-year to 30th September, 1927, £24,780. “The estimated results given above cover the worst trading period of the year.”

page 1631

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE

Basic Wage Increase

Mr CHARLTON:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -

  1. Is it intended to pay the £6 per annum basic wage increase granted in July, 1926, to public servants, who have not yet been reclassified?
  2. Will he make available the back pay due to public servants who have been reclassified?
Mr BRUCE:
NAT

– The replies to the honorable member’s question are as follow : -

  1. Yes, as soon as they are classified.
  2. The departments have the matter in hand and payment will be expedited as much as possible.

page 1632

QUESTION

TAXATION

Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– On the 21st October the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin) asked the following questions: -

What is the amount of taxation raised from -

I am now able to supply the honorable member with the following information : -

  1. Total revenue duties, 1923-24,

£22,870,758; 1924-25, £23,750,195; 1925-26, £24,228,402;

  1. Total protective duties, 1923-24, £13,562,424; 1924-25, £14,144,537; 1925-26, £15,570,045;
  2. Total Customs and Excise Duties, 1923-24, £36,433,182; 1924-25, £37,894,732; 1925-26, £39,798,447.

The attached statement shows an analysis of the total Customs and Excise revenue for the three years ending respectively 30th June, 1924, 30th June, 1925, and 30th June. 1926, showing the method by which the abovementioned figures have been ascertained -

These figures have been analyzed and allocated as revenue and protective duties respectively on the lines indicated hereunder with the results shown : - {: .page-start } page 1632 {:#debate-13} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-13-0} #### PROHIBITED LITERATURE {: #subdebate-13-0-s0 .speaker-K1J} ##### Mr PRATTEN:
MARTIN, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT -- On the 27th October, the honorable member for Reid **(Mr. Coleman)** asked the following questions:- {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Under what section of the Customs Act and other statutes (if any) is the prohibition of the admission into Australia of certain books and pamphlets exercised; and what is the test applied? 1. Will he make available the instructions and directions which have been issued to Customs officers in this regard, including Trade and Customs 27/B/158? 3.Is it a fact that certain University professors ana students of political science and philosophy have protested against the extent to which the censorship is exercised?. 4.W hat officers decide as to whether a book or pamphlet is objectionable, and is there any appeal against their decision, and, if so, to whom, and how is such appeal made? 2. Is a similar censorship exercised in Great Britain and other British Dominions to the same extent? 3. What is the reason for the exclusion from Australia of the *Labour Monthly,* published in Great Britain, which was formerly filed in the Library of Parliament? 4. Will he make a full statement as to the procedure adopted? 5. What books, pamphlets, &c. are now excluded? I am now able to supply the honorable member with the following informa tion : - {: type="1" start="1"} 0. Section SO of the Customs Act enacts that no prohibited goods shall be imported and section 52 *(g)* provides the importation of any goods may be prohibited by proclamation. Under that section a proclamation was issued on16th June, 1921, which prohibits the importation of any literature wherein is advocated - {: type="a" start="a"} 0. the overthrow by force or violence of the established Government of the Commonwealth or of any State or of any other civilized country; (b)the overthrow by force or violence of all forms of law; 1. the abolition of organized government; 2. the assassination of public officials; 3. the unlawful destruction of property: or 4. wherein a seditious intention is expressed or a seditious enterprise advocated. The test applied is whether the publication comes within the terms of any of the paragraphs of this proclamation. {: type="1" start="2"} 0. Acting under this proclamation and in accordance with the instructions of the ComptrollerGeneral dated 4th August, 1921, the collectors of Customs of the different States forward to the Comptroller-General copies of publications imported to which the proclamation appears to apply. File Trade and Customs 27/B/158 and the instruction dated 4th August, 1921, will belaid on the Table of the Library. 1. I am not aware of any such protests. 2. The Minister is the deciding authority. In doubtful cases the advice of the legal advisers of the Commonwealth is obtained. The Act makes no provision for any appeal, but if action were taken which was not in accordance with this la w, the owner of the property would have the ordinary legal remedies. 3. I am not aware whether or not this is the case. 4. Because it was deemed to come within the scope of. the proclamation of the 16th June, 1921. 5. See reply to Question No. 4. 6. A list of the publications of which delivery has' been refused will be laid on the table of the Library for the information of honorable members. {: .page-start } page 1633 {:#debate-14} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-14-0} #### WAR-TIME PROFITS Refunds {: #subdebate-14-0-s0 .speaker-C7E} ##### Dr EARLE PAGE:
CP -- On 27th October, the honorable member for Perth **(Mr. Mann)** asked the following question : - >How many taxpayers received refunds under *(a)* sections 1 to 3, and *(b)* section 4, of the War-time Profits Tax Assessment Act 1926? I am now in a position to make the following reply: - >The numbers of taxpayers who have received refunds under Sections 1 to 3, and 4 of the War-time Profits Tax Assessment Act 1926 are - {: .page-start } page 1633 {:#debate-15} ### QUESTION {:#subdebate-15-0} #### BUDGET 1927-28 *In Committee of Supply.* - Considera tion resumed from 17th November, *(vide* page 1605), on motion by **Dr. Earle** Page - >That thefirst item of the Estimates under Division 1 - The Parliament, namely, " The President, £1,300" - be agreed to. Upon which **Mr. Charlton** had moved by way of amendment *(vide* page 1414) - >That the item be reduced by £1. {: #subdebate-15-0-s0 .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES:
Adelaide . -In the discussion of the Budget in this Chamber, in the press, and among the public a prominent place has been given to the subject of migration. The policy of the Labour party in that regard is clear and definite and requires no elaboration by me. We all recognize that as in Australia, the land is under the control of the State governments they must be held chiefly responsible for settling the newcomers that enter the country; but as the Commonwealth Government is making huge sums available to the States to stimulate migration it has the right to expect effective results and if these are not being obtained it is entitled to suggest to the State authorities that other methods should be adopted. One thing quite patent to-day is that we must cease spending public money on the present migration methods. The success of the country depends upon the production of substantial wealth, and in spite of the manner in which honorable members opposite, from the Treasurer downwards, have juggled with figures during this debate, it is evident that real wealth is not being produced in sufficient volume to justify us in continuing the present policy of unrestricted migration. Some honorable members opposite seem to imagine that we have only to bring people here to ensure their success ; but that is a fallacy. That aspect of the subject is admirably dealt with in the leading article which appears in the Sydney *Evening Sun* of yesterday's date from which I quote the following : - >It is now generally admitted that migration should be regulated- by " absorbability," but the curious delusion still persists that the migrant necessarily creates his own absorbability - that he employs enough people to support him by his reciprocal efforts. The theory is archaic, for, obviously, the individual is only self-supporting when adjusted to the mass and machinery activities of the community, which, in these days, are exceedingly complex. Unless enterprise can readily absorb the newcomers they should not be flooded in, for such a policy involves the danger of widespread unemployment and of political turmoil. The " misguided enthusiasts " who advocate the wide-open door must endeavour to modify their enthusiasm by the consideration of economic facts and of sound political strategy. It is ridiculous for gentlemen like the honorable member for Forrest **(Mr. Prowse)** and the honorable member for Lang **(Sir Elliot Johnson)** to assert that every migrant provides for his own absorption. The fact- is that we are not able to-day satisfactorily to absorb in our industries the people who already reside here. There is far more unemployment in Australia than there should be. The various State governments, and particularly the new Liberal Government in South Australia which came into office with such a fanfare of trumpets, should be ashamed to allow the present situation to continue, much less to aggravate it. Although the position in South Australia is worse to-day than it has been since the 1914 drought, the Government there is already making strenuous efforts to stimulate migration. Honorable members of the Labour party, will be quite willing, when the conditions are suitable, to do everything in their power to bring to Australia a reasonable number of migrants of the British and other Nordic races ; but existing conditions are not now favorable for that to be done, and they are infinitely less favorable for the flooding of the country with Southern Europeans. The honorable member for Forrest **(Mr.** Prowse) quoted certain figures last night with the object of showing that the area under cultivation in Australia had increased in recent years, and he then dealt with the number of persons unemployed in our pastoral and agricultural areas. I also have abstracted certain returns from Bulletin No. 20 of our *Summary of Production* which show that in 1915-16 the area under crop in Australia was 12.484,512 acres, whereas in . 1925-26 it was only 10,201,276 acres. Doubtless the larger figures for the first-mentioned year were due to the fact that in consequence of war conditions our primary producers were urged to put every possible acre under crop; but I submit that as we were able to put that area under crop in 1915-16, we should be able to put an additional area of at least 10,000,000 acres under crop to-day. In 1915-16 the number of persons employed in rural occupations in Australia was 351,909, whereas the number so employed in 1925-26 was only 374,134, or only 22,225 more than in 1915-16. These figures are the more remarkable when Ave bear in mind that in 1915-16 the flower of our manhood was engaged abroad on military service. In the ten years that have followed many of the young men of the community who in 1915-16 were too young to engage in Avar service, have reached the prime of their manhood, and there is no doubt whatever that if the way were opened to them they would be glad to follow rural occupations. I daresay that the great bulk of the increase of 22.225 persons who are occupied in these pursuits, to-day over the number so engaged in 1915-16, are ex-soldiers who have been placed on the land under various repatriation schemes. These figures show that Australia is not producing the substantial wealth that she should be producing. If the honorable member for Wannon rnakes inquiry, he will find that the fault lies Avith the Government that lie supports. He came into this House with the great ideal of making two blades of grass grow where only one had grown previously. Whether he intended to do so by his own efforts or by the introduction of a new brand of fertilizer I cannot say; but the figures and the facts show that uc has not achieved his objective. Since the war, this country has been in the hands of Liberal administrations. The only consolation to be derived from the fact is that if they are given sufficient rope they will hang themselves. Tasmania fell into a parlous condition financially, because of its objection to Labour governments; but the people of that State have now found it necessary to hand over the administration to the Labour party. It cannot be denied that under Labour rule Tasmania has progressed. {: .speaker-JMG} ##### Mr Atkinson: -- But the Labour Government there acts. differently from any other Labour Ministry. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- Some excuse is always found .when Labour succeeds. The fallacy of the theory that Labour cannot govern has been proved in Tasmania. The present budget, although presented by a Liberal administration, has been caustically criticized by its supporters. I suppose that the reason they would give for supporting the Ministry is that, no matter how bad the devil may be, it is the devil they know. The honorable member for Fawkner **(Mr. Maxwell)** smiles. He is inclined to judge all Labour men by the actions of extremists, and. not, by the sane programme of the Labour party, which will one day be put into operation again in ' the Commonwealth. Let me quote the concluding paragraph of an article that recently appeared in an Adelaide newspaper - >The Liberal party lias been humiliated. J A principle has been surrendered which was considered by the greatest intellects that ever graced the Australian legislatures to be vital, and should be' cherished as an enduring bond of safety and hope in our unified system. And now another commission is appointed. It is intended to close our mouths when Parliament meets. It will not close mine. Is it representative? It is not. Representative parliamentary government is drifting into irresponsible, frequently fruitless commissions. As a matter of fact that quotation is from the Adelaide *Advertiser,* of 8th August last, and it is taken from an article headed " Per capita payments. The abolition tragedy. By *the* Hon. *R. W. Foster. "* {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- And I stand up to it. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- The honorable member did not recognize his own statements. I expect him to back them up. The honorable member for Wakefield whom I have known in parliamentary life more than other honorable members, frequently urges the Government to economize. I hope that he will protest against the appointment of so many commissions. With his wide knowledge that extends over many years of political life he should, be in a position to give the Prime Minister a substantial case to answer. Which commission is to be scrapped ? Is the Development and Migration Commission to be allowed to continue its enormous expenditure, for which we can see no return? Migrants can be absorbed without the aid of the commission. The honorable member may tell the people that they need not be afraid of the national debt; and it should be remembered that the value of the assets represented by railways, waterworks and other public utilities amounts to many millions sterling. Yet if we go into the most progressive districts in the Commonwealth, we find much of the land fenced off and held out of use. It has been "soonerized." When Labour first came into power, it recognized the seriousness of this land blight, which is patent to everybody. The railways, our national asset, run through large tracts of rich land that are not being put to full use, and the immigrants are placed on outlying areas where the soil is less fertile, if not infertile. Never has the Labour party failed to advocate water conservation as one of the best means of developing the country. {: .speaker-KFE} ##### Mr Gregory: -- As the State Parliaments have control of land settlement, and as Labour Governments are in power in most of the States, why not leave to them the bursting up of large holdings? {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- When recent Labour Governments in South Australia have attempted to bring about further land reform, the Legislative Council has stood in the way. The compulsory repurchase system is not entirely satisfactory, because the owners secure big prices for their land. The Commonwealth Government has been put to an expenditure of £10,000,000 in writing down overcapitalized farms on which returned soldiers have been placed. South Australia has been forced to write off millions in the same way. Honorable members from that State remember the purchase of " The Pinery," which was found entirely unsuitable for settlement purposes and not worth nearly the price paid for it. Even the Butler government, the present Liberal administration in South. Australia, recognizes the necessity for reform, and it has introduced a compulsory repurchase bill similar to that brought down by Labour governments. That the measure, to become law, must be passed by both branches of the legislature; and the Butler government knows well that the Legislative Council will reject it. The Council is practically a one-man body, because, when **Sir David** Gordon has spoken, nothing else will be said. When the late **Mr. Price,** one of South Australia's Labour premiers, opened up the West Coast lands in my State, the honorable member for Wakefield, in a letter to the press, accused him of stealing his policy of constructing roads and conserving water in that area. I well remember the reply of **Mr. Price.** {: .speaker-KZT} ##### Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917 -- I rise to a point of order. I have been listening to the honorable member for over half an hour, expecting to hear him deal with the national budget, but he has not yet mentioned it. His speech has been a repetition of the merits and demerits of. South Australian legislators. May I ask that the honorable member be requested to deal with the budget and not with the South Australian political situation ? The **CHAIRMAN (Mr. Bayley).As** the honorable member well knows, during the budget debate great latitude is given to honorable members. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I thank you, **Mr. Chairman,** for putting the honorable member for Wannon **(Mr. Rodgers)** in his place, and teaching him the practice of this committee, with which, apparently, he is unfamiliar. I am dealing with the immigration proposals of the Government, and the expenditure of money by the Development and Migration Commission Since I rose to speak I have dealt principally with immigration to South Australia. One honorable member on that side of the chamber said that immigration was a matter for the States because they control the land. The honorable member for Wannon **(Mr. Rodgers)** said that we should make two blades of grass grow where one previously grew, but that was not possible because of the menacing attitude of honorable members on this side. The Labour party wants two blades of grass to grow where none grew previously. We wish to increase our wheat and wool production, and to develop this country. I speak of South Australia, because I have an intimate knowledge of that State. There is on the Estimates an item of about £1,200,000 for the locking of the river Murray. When I was a lad the potentialities of that scheme were being discussed, and it became the subject of a book written by **Sir David** Gordon. Mr.Foster. - I heard **Mr. Glynn** speak on the subject almost before the honorable member was born. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: **- Mr. Glynn** played his part in the scheme, as also did Simpson Newland. {: .speaker-K4Y} ##### Dr Nott: -- Let the honorable member tell us more about the activities of the honorable member for Wakefield. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- The honorable member for Wakefield was a member of some of the stagnation governments of South Australia, and therefore the responsibility for the delay in carrying out the scheme rests with him to some extent. {: .speaker-JMG} ##### Mr Atkinson: -- Who started the river Murray works ? {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- **Sir Joseph** Cook. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I ask the honorable member not to anticipate my reply. I am quite able to tell the story of the river Murray locking scheme, as far as South Australia is concerned, and the honorable member knows that. Chaffey Bros. and not **Sir J** oseph Cook started the river Murray scheme, and helped to develop the Renmark irrigation settlement. In the early nineties an agitation arose for the development of the river Murray. The Labour party at that time, although in embryo, was large enough to exert an influence on the government of the day. In consequence, Charles Kingston instituted a system of village settlements. Does the honorable member for Wakefield say that I am not correct in my statement? {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- Yes. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I know that my statement is correct because my brother and I at that time proposed to take up a block of land at Lake Bonnie. Had circumstances been favorable, I might have been a primary producer to-day. {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- Peter Gillen was responsible for the village settlements. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- The honorable member claims credit for Peter Gillen, but when it comes to the loss on the scheme, he blames the Labour party. I admit that the scheme was not the success that was anticipated of it, but it was bread cast upon the waters, because many of those settlements started by the communal groups are being worked to-day by settlers with greater success than the returned soldiers are having with the blocks upon which this Government settled them. The locking of the river Murray was not initiated by the Liberal Government of South Australia. {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- Yes, it was. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- At that time in the South Australian Parliament there were Conservative and Liberal parties, but no Labour party. The honorable member was then a Liberal. When the Labour party came into being, some members of the Liberal party joined it and others the Nationalist party. The honorable member became a Nationalist and a hard-shell, and he has been one ever since. {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- I have always been a Liberal. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- After the village settle- ments were established there was a period of stagnation. It was then decided that the river Murray valley should be made productive, and an agreement was entered into between several States and the Commonwealth for the locking of the river. On behalf of South Australia, that agreement was signed by Thomas Price, then Labour Premier. {: .speaker-KFP} ##### Mr Foster: -- **Sir Joseph** Cook made the scheme possible. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- That is the position in respect of the locking of the river Murray, yet honorable members opposite continually urge that the Labour party is totally opposed to immigration. We should be only too glad to stand behind a sane system of immigration that will help to develop this country. South Australia adopted a boy immigration scheme as an experiment, and the present Government is continuing it. Some weeks ago I challenged honorable members supporting the Government to name one boy immigrant who had been settled on. the land and become a producer in his own right. {: .speaker-JVZ} ##### Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931 -- I can give instances. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I ask the honorable member not to make a general statement, but to name one boy immigrant who has' taken up land, and in what locality. The honorable member for Angas **(Mr. Parsons)** made a general statement, but did not give specific instances. {: .speaker-JMG} ##### Mr Atkinson: -- What becomes of the boy immigrants in South Australia? {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- Some of them are still wage plugs on farms, and others are working in maintenance gangs in and around the city. It has been stated that not 2 per cent. of the immigrants remain in the country. {: .speaker-JMG} ##### Mr Atkinson: -- Are they keeping themselves? {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- It would be a poor Britisher who would not be able to keep himself in a country like Australia. I believe that the boy immigrants are keeping themselves, but would the honorable member say that our policy of immigration is to bring people here simply to keep themselves? Our object is to place people on theland so as to develop this country. Even if the boy immigrants are keeping themselves, I suggest to the honorable member for Wilmot **(Mr. Atkinson)** that they are enduring a hand-to-mouth existence. The exportable real wealth of this country is increasing every year, notwithstanding the statements of the honorable member for Forrest **(Mr. Prowse)** last night. Had the public been able to listen to the honorable member over the wireless when he was delivering his speechlast night it would not have thought that he was speaking of an Australia teeming with wealth, in which a strong and virile people is engaged in developing our resources. {: .speaker-20000} ##### Mr Cameron: -- Yet the honorable member objects to immigration. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I do not object to immigration. I was an immigrant myself; I was not born in Australia. I am prepared at all times to admit all the immigrants needed to develop this country, but I contend that if the country were properly managed, and opportunities made available, it would not be necessary to bring immigrants here : they would come of their own volition. If the land were not locked up in big holdings, there would be ample opportunity for the absorption of immigrants. Let me refute the Jeremiahs who have delivered flaccid speeches in actual condemnation of the government which they support. The honorable member for Forrest is perhaps the worst of them all, yet he is the last man who should sing the dismal tune with which he so constantly favours us. From 1915-16 to 1925-26 the number of persons engaged in the agricultural industry increased by only 22,225, and I suggest that the majority of these are returned soldiers who have been repatriated by the Government. The Labour party is always willing to assist the primary producer, and to give him the same fair deal as it would give to working men. The people have subscribed to the Paterson butter scheme, which has stabilized the butter industry in this country. {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- It has not done that. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- From the point of view of the dairymen, it has, at any rate, helped to stabilize the industry. We pay increased prices, not only for our butter, but also for the milk that is delivered to our doors every morning, but we do so cheerfully because we know that the money is helping a necessary industry to carry on. What we do object to is the enormous profits made by the middlemen. On page 53 of the trade statistics in Commonwealth Bulletin No. 27, covering the period from 1915 to 1925, it is shown that the value of agricultural products exported in 1915-16 was £11,377,334, and that in 1925-26 their value was £34,245,641. Mr.Atkinson. - Did not the honorable member say that there was less land under cultivation now than there was in 1915? {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- I said that there was less land under wheat. While, however, there was less land cultivated for wheat, and while there were only 22,000 more people engaged in agricultural pursuits, the value of agricultural products exported advanced from £11,000,000 to £34,000,000. It is evident, therefore, that this is a very profitable industry for those engaged in it. {: .speaker-JVZ} ##### Mr M CAMERON:
BARKER, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · LP; NAT from 1925; UAP from 1931 -- Will the honorable member tell us the increased cost of production ? {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- That is the question for which I was waiting, because I have the figures here with which to reply to it. In answer to the honorable member for Barker, I shall quote the relative values of the production of the pastoral industry in 1915, and in 1925-26. In 1915 the estimated value of pastoral production was £70,144,000, and its value per head of population was £14 2s. 4d., while the pastoral production prices index number was 1,743. The value of these pastoral products, based on the 1911 prices, was £40,243,000, or a value per head of £8 2s. In 1925-26 the estimated value of pastoral products was £113,327,000. Thus it will be seen that during that period the value of pastoral products increased from £70,000,000 to over £113,000,000, in a country which, according to honorable members opposite, is blighted by the Labour governments which are in office in some of the States. It will be seen that the Labour party is quite prepared to make two blades of grass grow where one grew before if it is given the opportunity. The value per head of population of the pastoral products for 1925-26 was £18 18s. 3d., and the price index number was 2,050. The value of the products for that year, based on the 1911 prices, was £55,281,000, or a value per head of population of £9 4s. 6d. ? Does the honorable member want anything more to convince him that this is a glorious country, and that Labour administration can show the way to secure all necessary migrants, and to pay our interest bill? This Government is leading Australia into a position so parlous that it is exciting adverse criticism even from its own members and press. And now the honorable member for Forrest **(Mr. Prowse)** produces the latest oracle who seeks to bring about financial salvation, **Sir Lennon** Raws. Undoubtedly our excessive borrowing, if continued, may bring about our destruction. It is comparatively easy to borrow if one can find a friend who believes in him. The financing of the country on loans does not require the qualities of a statesman. Colloquially speaking, I have been a " mug " hundreds of times, and have "had my ear bitten " by persons who had my confidence. So long as Australia can show assets such as I have referred to it is the easiest thing in the world for Parliament to borrow. Later, the problem will arise as to who shall pay the resultant taxation. This Government has done nothing but nourish its friends.' Only recently it granted the pastoralists relief to the extent of £54,000. Yet it has no compunction about placing a burden of £25 on every man, woman and child in Australia through the medium of indirect taxation through the Customs House. If the Government is sincere in its protestation that it wishes to develop Australia, it should disclose our true position. Honorable members opposite are continually adopting the role of Jeremiah, and traduce Australia, but I have every confidence in the country. I consider that, some clay, when it is properly governed, it will be a model to the world. That will not be achieved by bringing boy labour to Australia, and by inundating our sugar industry with cheap Italian labour. This Government has Italianized the sugar districts in North Queensland. {: .speaker-K4Y} ##### Dr Nott: -- That is wrong. {: .speaker-L1T} ##### Mr YATES: -- It is not. I speak on the authority of a newspaper report which appeared in my own State. This Government has failed to reduce taxa tion, which is now greater in the aggregate that when Ministers first took office. It has certainly reduced taxation as it applies to its supporters, and when the Labour party succeeds to the Treasury bench it may justifiably pursue tactics similar to those employed by the party opposite, and so balance the ledger of equity. Not only has this Government failed to reduce borrowing, but it has increased the public debt. My contention is that it was not necessary for Australia to borrow one penny during the regime of this Government. In conclusion, I reiterate that the Government nas claimed to have reduced taxation, but has failed to do so. It has also claimed to have protected the Commonwealth through the medium of its tariff, in which effort it has again failed. {: #subdebate-15-0-s1 .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I give my meed of praise and congratulation to the Treasurer for having produced his fifth budget so soon after the meeting of Parliament at Canberra. In previous years the honorable gentleman has presented his budget within a few weeks after the termination of the financial year, but this year the postponement of our meeting has prevented that. The honorable gentleman has always put into force the practice which he advocated before he attained ministerial rank, that of presenting the budget at the earliest opportunity, so that Parliament may control expenditure. Various honorable members have indulged in the exposition of nostrums which, they 'claim, will cure our financial ills. The honorable member for Adelaide **(Mr. Yates)** spoke for an hour and a half, and did nothing except delve into the ancient history of South Australia. The honorable member quoted masses of statistics from the Commonwealth *Tear-Booh,* which we can all read for ourselves. I leave the criticism of the budget to our selfappointed financial experts-, such as the honorable member for East Sydney **(Mr. West)** and the honorable member for Henty **(Mr. Gullett).** The honorable member for Werriwa **(Mr. Lazzarini)** is also one who endeavours, at times, to assume the mantle of a high financial genius. Various other honorable members have told us how things should be done, but when it comes to producing some constructive scheme they fail miserably, as did. the honorable member for Henty and the honorable member for East Sydney, who mistook credits for debits! The honorable member for Wimmera **(Mr. Stewart)** made some pertinent remarks concerning those members of the Country party who support the plank of their platform which provides for the subdivision of eastern Australia into additional States. It is admitted that some subdivision of that portion of Australia is essentia], and the honorable member won his seat mainly on that catch-cry. {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- Is the honorable member satisfied with the progress that his party has made in the matter? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- The New States question has been raised on two occasions in the Parliament, once during the last Parliament, and once during this session. When it was last raised it was referred to the constitution session which was to have been held as soon as Parliament came to Canberra. Unfortunately, that session has been postponed. Until an amendment of the Constitution is effected, the existing machinery, which is archaic, must continue to creak and grean. A royal commission has been appointed to investigate the Constitution and make suggestions to this Parliament as to any alterations that may appear desirable. I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of that idea, and would like to know when the constitutional session is to be held. I have associated myself actively with the New States question, and I consider that this Parliament should deal with it during this session The sooner it is done, the better it will be for all concerned. The development of Australia is being hampered because our Constitution is out of date. Australia is like a boy who has outgrown his clothes. The Constitution may have been excellent when it was framed, but the natural evolution of the Commonwealth necessitates its being re- cast. Many important matters are being held up that can be adjusted only after an amendment of the Constitution has been effected. When the referendum bills were before this House two years ago, only two members dissented from the view that the proposed amendments of the constitution were desirable. Unfortunately the people did not agree to them; but I submit that those of us who live cheek-by-jowl with the constitution know more about it than does the average man in the street, to whom the constitution is just a word. He does not know what is in it or how it has worked, and to ask him to express an opinion upon contentious amendments is to waste time and money. {: .speaker-JZK} ##### Mr Coleman: -- Evidently the honorable member has a very poor opinion of the intelligence of his constituents. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- The intelligence of my constituents is all right; but the constitutional knowledge of the average elector is insufficient to enable him to grasp the meaning of proposed amendments. He therefore listens to the conservative advice to play safe by voting " No." {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- Why was not the new States issue included in the last referendum proposals? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- This House decided that that issue should be considered at a constitutional session. {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- Why was not effect given to that direction? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- The constitutional session has not been held yet. The estimates for 1925-26 included a sum of £5,000 for the remodelling of the post office at Lismore. In the following year the proposed vote was increased to £8,000. Although Parliament approved of the expenditure, only £2,428 is to be spent, the original plans and specifications having been so altered that the benefit which will accrue from the remodelling is problematic. Is it right, when a member has succeeded in getting the approval of Parliament to certain expenditure for the benefit of his constituents, that the Government should reduce or cut it out entirely? This involves a principle which affects every honorable member. In connection with another matter effect is not being given to a decision of this House. In July of last year we discussed the subject of liquor licenses at Canberra, and the Prime Mnister said on that occasion- >As for the granting of liquor licenses in the Federal Capital Territory, the Government takes the view that the residents of the Federal Capital should, like those in every other portion of the Commonwealth, have the right to determine the issue for themselves by means of a poll. The honorable member for Melbourne asked - " Should I move an amendment providing for local option," and the Prime Minister replied - >I have already announced that as the Government's policy, so I do not think it is necessary for the House to pass a resolution in regard to it. Later, he said - >The Government, however, feels that a poll of the permanent residents should be taken after the Scat of Government has been transferred. Irrespective of their personal views as to whether the Federal Capital Territory should be " wet " or " dry," honorable members will agree that a referendum of the local residents is the democratic and proper method of determining the issue. The Prime Minister rightly said that after the Seat of Government had been transferred the residents of the Territory could not be expected to be governed by an ordinance passed as far back as 1911. Several questions have been asked byvarious honorable members as to when a poll will be taken, and what progress is being made in the preparation of electoral rolls, but they have elicited no information. Having regard to the unanimous decision of this House that a poll should be taken, the Government should, without further delay, announce when the issue is to be submitted to the people. Apparently nothing is being done to give effect to an eighteen months' old resolution of the House, notwithstanding that there is already at Canberra a considerable permanent population. Recently the Governor-General was reported to have said in Melbourne that the main advantage of Canberra was that it was only six hours by air from Melbourne. I suggest that that statement by His Excellency was most indiscreet. The **CHAIRMAN (Mr. Bayley).Order!** The honorable member will not be in order in criticizing the GovernorGeneral. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- No holder of an official position should be immune from criticism in this chamber. The Commonwealth Parliament, with the approval of the Australian people, has chosen Canberra as the Federal Seat of Government. By all but a few die-hards, the accomplished fact is accepted, and here the Governor-General should reside. The statement attributed to Lord Stonehaven casts a slur on the Australian people by inferring that their choice was unwise. {: .speaker-K4Y} ##### Dr Nott: -- Why pick out the GovernorGeneral? Members of this Parliament have said the same thing frequently. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I consider that the Governor-General was most indiscreet to make such a remark. {: #subdebate-15-0-s2 .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- Order ! I cannot allow the honorable member to continue in that strain. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I have saidall I intended to say on that subject. I conceived it to be my duty to resent reflections on a decision of the Australian people by any person, however high his position. The budget disclosed an actual surplus of £2,635,597 for the year 1926-27. Of that sum, £2,000,000 has been allocated by the Treasurer to naval construction and a reserve for defence, £250,000 to science and industry investigation, and £200,000 to civil aviation. Nobody will object to the allocation for investigations directed to the improvement of science and industry, because many primary and secondary industries could be greatly benefited by systematic research. . I cordially approve of the amount set aside for civil aviation. **Sir Alan** Cobham, in his book *To Australia and Back;* said that Australian climatic and geographical conditions were ideal for the development of aviation. I am glad, therefore, that the Government proposes to encourage civil aviation ; but I suggest that it is hardly consonant with that policy to prosecute, for what the magistrate declared to be merely a technical offence, a gentleman who has played a prominent part in pioneering Australian aviation : I refer to the prosecution of Captain Percival. His machine was quite airworthy; but he did not hold a certificate. I know him to be a very experienced pilot. Many times I have flown with him; indeed, I was with him only a few weeks ago on a flight in one of the allegedly un-airworthy machines. If all our planes, military and civil, were as airworthy as that one, there would have been fewer aviation accidents in Australia during the last few years. *Sitting suspended from 12.J)5 to 2.15 p.m.* {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- Some years ago the Government established an aerodrome at Ballina, in my electorate, but negotiations were later entered into between the Defence Department and the local municipal council, in consequence of which the localgoverning body took over the aerodrome as a public reserve, on the understanding that it would be available for use as an aerodrome whenever it was required. A piano landed on it only last week, and some little time ago Captain Percival also made use of it. I suppose this is one of the few aerodromes in Australia that might be put into what I shall call the casual class. In my opinion the Government acted very wisely in placing this area under local control, for instead of it becoming overgrown with grass and weeds, .and being rendered unsafe as a landing ground by reason of sand drifts, it is being maintained in a usable condition. Some time ago, in reply to a question, the Postmaster-General informed me that it was the intention of the Government to establish an aerial mail service between Sydney and Brisbane, but he could not tell me when the service would be put into operation. I suggest that in consequence of the great saving in time which would follow the inauguration of the service, it should be instituted as soon as possible. The planes could use the Ballina aerodrome, and link up with the aerial services that operate from other centres. Notwithstanding that such services between the Australian capital cities might in a small degree compete with existing travelling and mail facilities, they should be established, for they would provide avenues of employment for pilots who have completed their training in the Air Force, enable the principals of huge business concerns to make rapid journeys between the various capitals for consulta tion purposes, and ensure the rapid transit of important commercial, public, and private documents. An amount of £100,000 of the surplus has wisely been ear-marked for the purpose of assisting to educate soldiers' children. The provision of £200,000 to form the nucleus of the National Insurance Fund is evidence of the sincere desire of the Government to inaugurate an effective scheme of national insurance within Australia. I had the honour to be a member of the Royal Commission on National Insurance. The commission sat for three and a half years, and made exhaustive inquiries into such widely differing subjects as maternity questions, pre-natal and post-natal ; casual sickness, accident, invalidity, unemployment, destitution, old age, and superannuation. There is hardly a major experience of human life which is not relevant to one or other of the subjects upon which it had to inquire. The commission submitted four reports in all. I am glad to say that the recommendations it made in respect of unemployment have received the commendation of the extremists in both the employing and employed classes of our community, and also of the huge body of moderate opinion in both camps. It is a matter of considerable satisfaction to the members of the commission that, notwithstanding the thorny nature of this subject, they were able to submit a report which has been subjected to practically no criticism. The principle upon which the report was based was that as the average Australian wage-earner was unable, during the period of his active work, to save sufficient to maintain himself and his dependants in reasonable comfort in his old age, but was always obliged to live up to his income in order to feed and clothe his family, provision should be made to ensure him a reasonable degree of comfort in the evening of his life. In order to make that possible, the commission suggested that a fund should be established to which employers, employees and the Government should contribute. I am informed that the bill which the Government is having drafted, after considering the recommendations of the report, is almost ready for presentation to Parliament; so I shall withhold, for the time being, any further comment on this subject. An amount of £70,000 has been set aside for the purpose of prospecting for oil in Papua and New Guinea, and for making a geo-physical survey of Australia. Ever since my election to this Parliament I have advocated that Papua and the Mandated Territory should be prospected for oil. In spite of what has occurred at Roma recently, it is still arguable whether oil will ever be discovered in Australia in commercial quantities; but every geologist who has visited the Mandated Territory has expressed the conviction that oil will be discovered there. The Dutch and German geologists, who examined New Guinea prior to the war, as well as our own geologists, who have explored it since our occupation, are unanimous on that point. I understand that the original intention of the Government was to spend the whole of the money available for exploratory purposes in Papua, but I am glad to say that it has now been decided that exploration shall also be conducted in the Mandated Territory. It may be possible to conduct a geo-physical survey of these territories as well as of Australia. A party of scientists recently visited New Zealand with the object of making surveys there under what is known as the Elbore system. I trust that this, or some equally satisfactory method, will be adopted by the geophysicists who will be employed to carry out the Australian survey. Seeing that a new government has been elected in New South Wales, I suggest, that the time is opportune' for the Government to make fresh representations to that State, with the object of getting it to proceed immediately with the construction of the proposed bridge over the Clarence River at Grafton. The Lang Government, of nasty memory, promised several times to push on with this work, but did nothing. Perhaps it felt that if it remained inactive until the bridge was actually required to provide through connexion for the new railway, the Commonwealth Government might itself take the work in hand. It is not disputed that the building of this bridge is a State responsibility. In these circumstances I trust that the Government will adopt my suggestion and renew its representations on the subject. There is another railway project that I desire to bring under the notice of the Government. Under the Seat of Government Acceptance Act 1909, provision was made for the construction of a railway from Yass, through Canberra, to Jervis Bay. Clause 6 of the schedule states, among other things - >For the purpose of providing access to and from the Territory from andto the sea, the State shall grant to the Common wealth - > >The right to construct, maintain, and work a railway or other means of communication from the Territory to Jervis Bay. Clause 7 provides that the State shall not claim compensation from the Commonwealth for the value of any right, title or interest in land of the State required by the Commonwealth for the purpose. Two square miles of land were reserved at Jervis Bay for railway needs. Clause 9 sets out - >In the event of the Commonwealth constructing a railway within the Territory to its northern boundary, the State shall construct the railway from a point near Yass on the Great SouthernRailway, to join with the said railway, and the Commonwealth and the State shall grant to each other such reciprocal running rights as may be agreed upon. The advantages of a railway from Yass to Jervis Bay through Canberra would be many. We have an excellent port at Jervis Bay, and it is not connected by rail with the Federal Territory or Sydney. Thereare too few deep sea ports in Australia., and none of them should be neglected. The Naval College at Jervis Bay and the Military College at Duntroon are supposed to work in concert, and railway connexion between them would be advantageous. Such a line would connect the Federal Capital with a deep sea port of its own, which could be developed as an overseas port, and the connexion of Yass with the Federal Capital by railway would provide another outlet to the sea for the southern portion of New South Wales. I hope that vested interests will not prove strong enough to prevent the consummation of this proposal. I have in mind the fate that has overtaken Twofold Bay, Jervis Bay, the Clarence River, and Port Stephens, which are but a few of the excellent ports that have been neglected. The distance between Canberra and Jervis Bay, as the crow flies, is about 75 miles, and the length of the railway would probably be about 100 miles, thus cutting in half the distance from Canberra to Sydney, which is the only port that the Federal Capital now has. 1 ask the Government to refer to the Public Works Committee the question of the wisdom of constructing this line, and ask it once more to consider the proposal to build a line from Yass to Canberra. During this debate much has been heard concerning Australia's financial position and adverse trade balance. The honorable member for Dalley **(Mr. Theodore),** referring to Customs duties, said that he was a prohibitionist. I, also, am a prohibitionist with regard to the tariff and many other matters. For some years our imports have been in excess of our exports, and, unfortunately, many primary products that are grown in Australia are also imported. Even butter, for example, is brought into this country from overseas. Primary products such as wheat, maize, oats, barley, potatoes, eggs, poultry, honey and beeswax are all imported, although we also export them. It seems extraordinary that they should be imported at any time. Flax, to the value of a million and a half sterling, is imported, although we grow excellent flax in Australia. Such importations should be prohibited. In 1920-23, sugar to the value of £6,590,314 was imported. In the following year, sugar imports were valued at £209,787,000, a decrease of over £4,000,000. Then there was a progressive decrease until 1924-25, when the value was £35,356. That small sum is probably accounted for by the sugar representing ships' stores. To maintain our White Australia policy, and for many other excellent reasons, we have decided that no sugar shall be imported from other countries, provided that that commodity is sold in the capital cities at a certain price". The sugar agreement expires next year, and I am glad to say that the Prime Minister is committed to the renewal of the agreement. Opposition to it has come from the southern States, because some honorable members do nor. understand the position of the industry, or, if they do, they wilfully mis-state it. It is said. that bounty is paid; but bounty has never been received by the industry. During the war years, when Australian manufacturers were obtaining sugar at a' price very much below that at which it could be obtained outside this country, they were able to build up reserves that were afterwards capitalized, and, now that the sugar market has been stabilized, the same firms claim that the agreement is doing them an in jury because they cannot show the big profits on their watered capital that they previously enjoyed. The industry is a shining example of what can be done by proper use of the tariff. No doubt arises as to the quality of Australian sugar, and its price does not appreciably affect the cost of living. The indirect advantages of keeping the northern part of Australia settled with white people far outweigh possible disadvantages. I hope that, when the agreement is renewed next year, malicious misstatements concerning the industry will not be repeated. {: .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr Fenton: -- The opposition of which the honorable member speaks does not come from the representatives of the southern States. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I have heard it from a. few of them, and it principally comes from Victoria, particularly from the growers of fruit for canning purposes. In 1924-25, unmanufactured tobacco to the value of £2,004,92S was imported into Australia, although tobacco of high quality is grown here. Excellent tobacco is grown in the Tamworth district, and the honorable member for New England **(Mr. Thompson)** has been very assiduous in championing its merits. I have been a tobacco-grower in that district, and I claim that our flue-cured tobacco is an excellent article, which should not be choked off the market by propaganda insinuating that Australians will not smoke Australian tobacco. If Ave cut down our tobacco imports by half Ave should save £1,000,000. The importation of our agricultural products and groceries has increased tremendously, the value of the imports in 1920-21 being £8,127,079, while in 1924-25 it had risen to £10,542,590. There is no need to import agricultural products into Australia, nor is there any necessity to import canned fruits and vegetables, biscuits, and a great number of other groceries and confections which are at present brought in. In that matter, again, I am, with discrimination, a prohibitionist. If we cut out the imports of agricultural products and groceries we should save £10,500,000 a year, which would assist to rectify our adverse trade balance.I am not aware that that balance does much harm. I have even read arguments to the effect that an adverse trade balance is no detriment to a young country, but I am not prepared to debate it. The honorable member for Wimmera took an active part inthe operations of the Dried Fruits Control Board, as he desired to see dried fruits exported from his electorate. The honorable member claims that he is a low tariffist. In that regard I am a prohibitionist. {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- What about the platform of the honorable member's party? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I am merely stating my own views on a subject which should be a non-party one. {: .speaker-KV8} ##### Mr Stewart: -- That is a new interpretation. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- It is the only one I have heard put forward in this chamber. In 1923-24 Australia imported butter to the value of £191,828, and last year the imports of butter from New Zealand were enormous. Recently the Tariff Board inquired into the proposal for an increased duty on butter. It started to take its evidence in March of this year, and concluded it in May. I was one of the last who gave evidence in support of the application. When the inquiry closed no evidence had been given against the proposed increase. When the House met in September the Minister admitted that he had received the report of the Tariff Board, and, in answer to a question of mine a few days ago, he stated that it would be placed on the table of the House very shortly. The House will rise in a few weeks' time, and I hope that the matter will not be delayed until the eleventh hour. Every honorable member, whether he represents a metropolitan or a country constituency, knows the parlous position of our butter industry, and I feel confi dent that an increase in the tariff on imported butter would meet with the approval of all honorable members. Prohibition should be extended to many other of our imports. Only a few days ago I read that the South African Government had notified an economic conference that it would not withdraw the prohibition it had placed on the exportation of ostriches and ostrich eggs. Australia should take similar action with regard to its stud rams and ewes. We are very shortsighted in allowingour competitors in South Africa and the Argentine to import our prize stock and have the advantage of our many years of research work. {: .speaker-KJM} ##### Mr Jackson: -- As was done with wattle bark. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- That is so. Even at this late hourthe Government should close down on the export of stud rains and ewes, and so allow Australia to retain for a. longer period its present wool producing supremacy. I agree with the honorable member for Dalley **(Mr. Theodore)** that it would be of advantage if Australia took action with regard to the protection of our primary products, but our secondary industries should also receive a measure of protection and encouragement. But by the findings of our courts of arbitration we have created artificial boundaries in our secondary industries which should be withdrawn. The party to which I belong has as a plank of its platform, "piece work, and payment by results." Our primary producers are entirely dependent upon payment by results. If a farmer does not work, he does not obtain results, and very often when he does work he does not obtain a profit. The principle could well be applied to our secondary industries. The hewer of coal, and the shearer are paid by results, and both are members of the A.W.U. As that union apparently stands for the principle of payment by results, it should not oppose its application to our secondary industries. Our arbitration court judges have stressed the point that an advantage would accrue to Australia if the principle had general application. At present employers have to pay a certain wage, irrespective of whether the wage-earner gives an adequate return for what he receives or not. It is generally overlooked that it is not the employer who pays the wages. Wages are paid for out of his products. If the employer does not obtain adequate production for his wages, he is unable to continue merely as a philanthropist, and that creates unemployment. One of the causes of unemployment is the absurd claim advanced by many of our skilled trades that payment by results would be to their disadvantage. It is the only way to obtain efficiency in any skilled trade. I admit that it cannot be applied to all trades, and I instance the work of the navvy and the clerk, but wherever possible it should be applied by the arbitration court, and this Parliament should supply the judges of that court with a suitable act upon which they maybase their interpretations. {: .speaker-KRD} ##### Mr McGrath: -- Why not apply it to doctors ? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- Doctors are paid by results - at any rate, according to the quantity of work they do. {: .speaker-DQC} ##### Mr Hughes: -- What about ourselves. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- Who is to be the judge of our results? The judgment of the people is often clouded by party smoke screens, so that we cannot get from them as clear a decision as they otherwise might give. If Australia is to progress, it must ultimately adopt the system of payment by results. {: .speaker-KRD} ##### Mr McGrath: -- In other words, cheap labour. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- I cannot understand the honorable member's contention. Ask the honorable member for Darling **(Mr. Blakeley),** a former president of the Australian Workers' Union, whether the shearers would care to revert to a fixed wage. Ask the honorable member for Hunter **(Mr. Charlton)** whether the miners would like to get back to a fixed wage. {: .speaker-JXA} ##### Mr Charlton: -For six years they have been trying to get back to it, and cannot. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- The only persons whom payment by results would not suit are those who do not work. If an employer is paying a basic wage of £5 a week, and one of his employees is only doing £4 10s. worth of work, the other employees have to make good the deficiency. The sooner the workers awaken to that fact, the better it will be for all concerned. {: .speaker-DQC} ##### Mr Hughes: -- Most of the militant unions insist on piece-work. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- That is so. It is not a panacea for all our ills, but where it can be put in operation it will give better results than does the present haphazard wages system. {: .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr Fenton: -- I would not like my cows to be milked by piece-work. {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- Every farmer in the country is on piece-work; if he does not work, he gets no result. Piece-work, payment by results, and. a discriminating prohibition of both imports and exports will help us to overcome the adverse trade balance. In the Treasurer's budget statement appeared this paragraph - >The Government has decided to provide suitable transport - or to arrange for suitable transport at a cost not exceeding £10 per soldier permonth - for recreation for certain classes of soldiers. Provision of this nature will be made under departmental medical advice, and will be limited to soldiers totally and permanently incapacitated as the result of spinal, head, pelvic or hip injury, organic cerebral, or spinal disease, and double amputation cases above or at the knee, whose means of locomotion, because of war disablement is permanently restricted to wheel chairs or cots. The committee may think that that is a big concession ; it is not. A considerable time ago the Red Cross Society supplied seriously disabled soldiers with means of locomotion to enable them to get into the open air and visit their friends. In the majority of cases a motor cycle was provided that could be driven from the sidecar. In the course of time those vehicles depreciated to such an extent that their upkeep became prohibitive to the soldiers, who had to maintain them out of their pensions. Accordingly the Government was asked to replace the worn-out vehicles from public funds. As the number of beneficiarieswould be limited, the cost would not be excessive. The Treasurer has announced the Government's policy, and I ask honorable member's to note the limitations contained in these words - " whose means of locomotion, because of war disablement, is permanently restricted to wheel chairs or cots." That means that, if a soldier can get about at all he will get no benefit from that provision. On Armistice Day, honorable members may have seen an ex-officer watching the ceremony in front of Parliament House. He was barely able to move on two crutches. I was in hospital with him in 1919, and at that time he was able to move only his head and neck, the re3t of his body being paralyzed owing to a severe head injury; but by indomitable will and pluck he is able to get about to a limited extent. In 1921, when he could be carried from hospital, the Bed Cross Society supplied him with a motor cycle. Finding that too rough, he was able to obtain a light car, which he now drives. The upkeep of that car is a heavy drain on his pension. One would think that he would be provided for by the Government ; but he is excluded from this new provision because he is not permanently restricted to a wheel chair or cot. Other ex-soldiers similarly situated are also debarred. In an interview with the Prime Minister, I quoted the case of an ex-soldier whose right arm has been amputated at the shoulder, and whose right leg has been removed at the hip joint. Notwithstanding his serious disablement, he is doubly disqualified because his double amputation is not above or at the knee, and because, being able to move about to a slight extent, he is not permanently restricted to a wheel chair or cot. The Minister for Repatriation has chosen to draw a line, of demarcation between different classes of double amputations. Great though the disability, I, with one leg amputated, suffer in comparison with honorable members who have the use of both legs, the difference between us is small in comparison with the difference between me and the man who has suffered a double amputation. It would be as easy for a blind man to understand or comprehend the beauties of the sunset, or for a deaf man to appreciate the charms of a musical composition, as for any person enjoying the use of both legs to understand the thousand disabilities suffered by a man who has lost two limbs. ' I am afraid that many honorable members may not understand the effect of the Government's proposals, and I shall therefore place before them the views of the various soldiers' associations. The secretary of the Returned Maimed aud Limbless Men's Association of Western Australia has written: - >Regarding the regulation recently promulgated by the Repatiation Department, dealing with the provision of free motor transportation to certain classes of severely disabled cases, we believe that the authorities have not conceded that which the united associations asked for, it being our considered opinion that double amputees of any class, without reference to recreational facilities, should be provided with free motor cars, and not motor transportation. Specifically, we wanted a motor car for each double amputee, and not the provision which the department has offered. The secretary of the Victorian Limbless Soldiers' Association wrote as follows: - >I want to make it very clear to you that the Victorian association is most emphatic that the Government, when granting allowances for transportation, should extend the privilege to all double amputees whether their amputations are above or below the knees. > >You can, when interviewing the Ministers, impress upon them the absolute necessity of locomotion for all double amputees, and point out that, according to their present intentions as stressed in my letter from **Sir Neville** Howse, the privilege under such conditions would only be availed of by a very small percentage of double amputees. The secretary of the New. South Wales Association wrote : - >You can state that this association strongly upholds that every double amputee receives the 'benefit of the agreement arrived at by Cabinet. These are the considered opinions of the Limbless Soldiers' Associations in various States, but the matter has also been discussed by different branches of the Returned Sailors and Soldiers Imperial League. Last. August the New South Wales congress of the League carried a very strongly worded motion on the subject. As far back as last March, I had received assurances from . practically every member of the Government that the matter would be dealt with almost immediately. The Prime Minister went so far as to say that he hoped to announce the decision of the Cabinet in the following week. But it was ultimately resolved to defer the decision until the return of **Sir Neville** Howse from abroad. As I have said, that honorable gentleman has determined the matter unsatisfactorily to us, though I feel sure that he sincerely believed that he was giving a generous decision. {: .speaker-KNP} ##### Mr Maxwell: -- How many men are affected ? {: .speaker-KFA} ##### Mr R GREEN:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · CP -- On that point I have received a letter from the secretary of the Victorian Association, which contains the following paragraph: - >I have been in touch with the Repatriation Commission, and have been informed that at the30th June last there were 122 double amputees whose disabilities are due to war service, and of this number there are eighteen cases confined to cots and wheel chairs. It will be seen, therefore, that only eighteen ex-service men are reaping any advantage from the new regulation. At a recent meeting of the federal executive of the League, it was decided to ask Cabinet to amend its decision to read as follows : - >That the Repatriation Commission be empowered to provide motor cars for those soldiers totally and permanently incapacitated as a result of spinal, head, pelvic, or hip injury; organic, cerebral, or spinal disease, and double amputation cases whose means of locomotion because of war disability is restricted to wheel chairs or cots. I point out that the condition of amputees does not vary, whereas the condition of sufferers from spinal, head, pelvic, or hip injuries does vary to some extent. I sincerely trust that the Minister for Repatriation will give further consideration to this matter, and that before the committee discusses the vote for his department he will make a statement to the effect that the Government has agreed to vary its decision to this extent. The letter received from the Chairman of the Repatriation Commission relative to this matter contains the following paragraph : - >It is estimated that there are approximately 120 ex-soldiers who are likely to come under that definition. The various classes of disabilities from which these ex-soldiers suffer are mainly as follows: - > >Certain double leg amputation (above knee) ; > >certain gunshot wound spine; resulting in paralysis of legs. > >certain diseases of spinal cord; resulting in paralysis of legs. > >certain locomotor ataxia; (e) certain cerebral meningitis and hæmorrhage; > >certain diseased bone of spinal column; > >certain gunshot would head; resulting in loss of locomotory powers ; > >certain tubercular spines - where classed as total ly and permanently incapacitated. It goes on to say that a nominal roll of ex-soldiers who come within these various classesis being made. I hope that the Minister will make it quite clear that there will be no differentiation between double amputees, and that he will omit the word "permanently" from the regulation. I trust, also, that he will indicate that all double amputees who are able to drive a motor car will have one provided for them. As the result of amputations two men in Sydney have only one arm of their four limbs' left. They have each lost the other arm from the shoulder and both legs from the thigh ; yet they are able to drive a motor car around the city. {: .speaker-10000} ##### The CHAIRMAN: -- The honorable member's time has expired. Progress reported. {: .page-start } page 1648 {:#debate-16} ### ADJOURNMENT {:#subdebate-16-0} #### Government Business: Exploitation of Aboriginal Labour {: #subdebate-16-0-s0 .speaker-F4B} ##### Mr BRUCE:
Prime Minister and Minister for External Affairs · Flinders · NAT .- I move- >That the House do now adjourn. It is intended to continue on Tuesday next consideration of the budget and Estimates. {: #subdebate-16-0-s1 .speaker-JVT} ##### Mr NELSON:
Northern Territory -- I have been informed from numerous sources that the Minister for Home and Territories **(Mr. Marr)** has been circulating within the precincts of Parliament House the contents of a telegram which he is alleged to have received from the Government Resident in North Australia to the effect that I am the biggest shareholder in a mine there in which aboriginals and half-castes are employed at slave or sweated wages. During my parliamentary career I have at times been compelled to make some rather straight statements respecting the administration of the Minister for Home and Territories in the Northern. Territory; but I have at all times made my statements to his face, and not behind his back, andhe has had the opportunity to defend himself. I regard that as the golden rule of politics. I have never either inside or outside of this chamber circulated statements respecting the Minister which are incapable of proof. Common courtesy surely demanded of the Minister that he should have advised me of the receipt of this telegram, or else regarded its contents as confidential until he hadan opportunity to make them public . It is only a weak case that needs bolstering up by the methods which the Minister has employed. I feel sure that the honorable gentleman will not feel proud of his conduct when I have explained the facts of the case. I challenge him to make the question involved one for the consideration of the select committee proposed to be appointed to investigate aboriginal affairs, or any commission that may be appointed in that connexion. It is at least due to me that such a course should be adopted, in view of the circulation of the telegram. It was based on an article published in the Darwin *Times.* I have had occasion, in discussing previous budgets, to draw attention to the fact that that newspaper has received contracts at prices far in excess of other contracts for the printing of the *Government Gazette,* and, needless to say, it entertains no love for me on that account. But even that newspaper did not state that I was an employer of natives. It suggested, as a result of articles arising out of my discussion of the exploitation of aborigines, that I should make inquiries into certain matters affecting a mine in which I was interested. That was the inference ; no definite statement was made. I now propose to give the House the facts, for the purpose of clearing myself. It is almost three years since the original prospecting syndicate, of which I was a member, ceased control of the mine. These facts could have been ascertained by the Minister by reference to his own department. The interest I hold in the mine is one-twelfth of the original syndicate, in which there were four shareholders, and, therefore, the other three held eleven-twelfths of the total interests. That is sufficient to prove that I am not the largest shareholder. However, hearing these statements in the House from various honorable members on both sides, I immediately wired to Melbourne, anticipat ing that the matter would be raised in this chamber last week. I telegraphed to **Mr. T.** Gibson, legal manager, Temple Court, Melbourne, as follows : - >Marr states your mine employing halfcastes at low wages. Is this correct? If so, on what conditions employed? Reply urgent. **Mr. Gibson** is the legal manager of the mine, and has been so for a considerable time. In that capacity he has interviewed the Minister personally on several occasions. {: .speaker-F4U} ##### Mr Forde: -- Is that the only mine in which the honorable member is interested ? {: .speaker-JVT} ##### Mr NELSON: -- Yes, in Northern and Central Australia, The reply I received f rom **Mr. G** ibson was as follows : - >Absolutely no coloured labour ever employed Shackle. Work at standstill pending finalizing transfer. No work has been done on the mine for a considerable period. Then I telegraphed to the senior partner of the original syndicate in the following terms: - >Minister hawking round House wire alleged to have come from Government Resident to effect mine I am interested employing blacks or half-castes at sweated wages. As only interested one mine Territory, this meant for Shackle. Interview Government Resident: ascertain on what grounds this lie was based. Present company definitely refute statement and you know prior history. Please advise. In reply to that message I received this telegram - >I sank shaft on Shackle mine to approximately 48 feet single-handed, unaided by black or white. Did my own horse-tailing, having to walk miles at night listening for bells to catch the fortnightly train, and walk miles in wet grass in wet season for them. Any person who says that I, or you through me, employed one aboriginal at Shackle mine, is a most contemptible and scurrilous liar. Challenge Marr to come out of House and say so. Playford is south. He repeatedly visited Shackle day and night. I defy him say he ever saw an aboriginal with me. Also refer Walter Young advisory council candidate. {:#subdebate-16-1} #### Toupein **Mr. Young** was working for the Mines Department at the time, and **Mr. Playford** is the Director of Mines in the north. Following that telegram **Mr. Toupein** telegraphed to me as follows : - >Saw Government Resident. What Minister refers to is comment in *Times,* November fourth, referring controversy to effect that you should inquire into sweating of half-castes and aborigines employed Shackle and wages they receive. This apparently refers to Blunt's tributing party. The original syndicate spent sums running into thousands of pounds in an endeavour to develop one of the biggest gold propositions in the North; but its limited cash prevented it from doing those things that were necessary. One by one the members of the little working syndicate were forced to cease contributing to it, and then a tribute was let. **Mr. Toupein,** who is the recognized manager on behalf of the syndicate, hearing that the tributor was about to employ natives, immediately proceed ed to the mine and challenged him on the matter. The answer he received was that that was his intention. The two men quarrelled and fought, and the tributor received such a terrific hiding that he left the Northern Territory, and has not been in it since. That is the only occasion during the period of my connexion with the mine when there could be any suspicion of employment of halfcastes or aborigines. The members of the syndicate have done a great service under tremendous difficulties. They have battled hard, and have spent all their cash. In justice to them and myself the Minister should have adopted the straight course. He should have brought the telegram to me or kept it to himself until such time as he was prepared to use it. I do not care how much he retaliates, provided I have an opportunity to reply, which courtesy I have always extended to him. I think the House will agree with me that it is not cricket to carry awire round the House and show it to honorable members without giving the accused person an opportunity to defend himself. For that reason I make this statement, in the hope that the matter will be definitely cleared up, and I suggest that it be referred to the proposed select committee or commission. Personally, I am prepared to resign my seat, if by any action, or by any method whatever, I was ever a party to the employment of natives in mining operations in the Northern Territory. {: #subdebate-16-1-s0 .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr MARR:
Minister for Home and Territories · Parkes · NAT -- The honorable member has referred to a matter which he says is of great importance to him, to me as Minister, and to the North generally. He must recognize that, when some time ago he spoke of the exploita tion of aborigines in Northern Australia, he used very strong language regarding the control of the department over which I preside. He then named me, the " Minister for black labour," to which I replied that although I was the Minister for black aborigines of the Northern Territory, because the aborigines are our care as much as the white population, I was a White Australian. It istrue that I received a telegram from the north ; but I deny the statement of the honorable member that I hawked it round the chamber showing it to everybody. {: .speaker-KRD} ##### Mr Mcgrath: -- I have heard a dozen members say that they saw it. {: .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr MARR: -- I deny that I hawked it about. I am having inquiries made into the allegation against the honorable member for the Northern Territory, and I am still awaiting a reply to my telegrams asking for further particulars concerning the Shackle Creek mine, in which it was alleged the honorable member held a controlling interest, and that half-caste aborigines were employed there, working hard and receiving no wages at all. {: .speaker-KZ6} ##### Mr Lacey: -- Somebody " pulled the Minister's leg." {: .speaker-KMW} ##### Mr MARR: -- It is an official wire, and it will be treated officially. The matter was held in abeyance, because an opportunity for discussing it had not come before the House. It was my intention, when the subject was next raised in this chamber on private members' day, to make a statement upon it. The information has been received since the proposal to appoint a select committee was last under consideration. If I have been wrongly advised, I am prepared to give full information in the House, when I receive replies to the telegrams I have despatched. If injustice has been done to the honorable member, I shall be prepared to admit it frankly. The statement was made by a responsible official in the Northern Territory. If he has done wrong, made a mistake, or alleged against the honorable member that which is untrue, the House will know it. {: #subdebate-16-1-s1 .speaker-F4Q} ##### Mr SCULLIN:
Yarra .- The Minister stated that he did not carry the telegram round the House. I was under the impression that there was no secrecy about it. The honorable gentleman walked across the chamber to the Opposition side and, in the presence of the honorable member for Maribyrnong **(Mr. Fenton),** the honorable member for Hindmarsh **(Mr. Makin),** and myself, opened the wire, read it, and said, " This is interesting." I immediately remarked to him that it would be much better if he replied openly in the House to the charges- made by the honorable member instead of carrying round a telegram which reflected on the honorable member personally. I did not inform the honorable member for the North eni Territory about the incident, but I did not regard the telegram as a secret, when it was openly shown to three members on this -side._ {: #subdebate-16-1-s2 .speaker-KEV} ##### Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong -- I corroborate the remarks of the honorable member for Yarra. The telegram was undoutedly shown to us. I believe from what I have heard, and from what I know myself, it was also shown to honorable members opposite. I do not know the contents of the telegram that passed between the Government and the officials in the Northern Territory, or whether the information was supplied voluntarily; but, without prejudging the case, if the official concerned had erred in the way he apparently has, he is not to be trusted by any Government. I lay the blame on the Minister for disclosing the contents of a secret telegram. If the Prime Minister, or anybody else, received a telegram containing a serious charge against an honorable member, such as that levelled at the honorable member for the Northern Territory ,he should go direct to the honorable member concerned, or else indicate to him that it was intended to ventilate the matter in the House. That would give the individual concerned an opportunity to deny the impeachment. {: #subdebate-16-1-s3 .speaker-KLL} ##### Mr MAKIN:
Hindmarsh .- I confirm what has been said by the honorable member for Yarra **(Mr. Scullin),** and the honorable member for Maribyrnong **(Mr. Fenton).** I did not ask the Minister to show me the telegram; he came and openly displayed it to us. In the circumstances, I felt that we were not bound to treat the matter as confidential, and the Minister certainly did not bind us with any pledge of confidence. Question resolved in the affirmative. House adjourned at 3.46 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 18 September 1927, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1927/19270918_reps_10_116/>.

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