9th Parliament · 3rd Session
Mr. Speaker (Rt. Hon. W. A. Watt) took the chair at 11 a.m., and read prayers.
page 264
Security Pact - League of Nations Protocol - Australia’s Delegation to League of Nations
– Has the Prime Minister received any communication from the Imperial authorities regarding the proposed Security Pact? If so, will he make the whole of the correspondence available to honorable members? Further- more, has the Australian Government been asked to agree to this Pact, and, if so, will he give the House an opportunity to discuss the subject before any decision is arrived at to bind the Commonwealth ?
– I understand that the notes exchanged between Germany, Great Britain, and France were published in London last night, and they should be available in Australia to-day. Therefore I ask the honorable member to postpone his question until a later hour, when probably the information he seeks will be available.
Later -
– I should like to know if the Government has decided that Australia shall be represented at the Sixth Assembly of the League of Nations, which meets at Geneva in September next, and, if so, by whom? I should also like to know if, in order that our delegates may go to the Assembly with definite instructions from the Australian Parliament, an early opportunity will be given the House to discuss the League of Nations Protocol and the suggested alternative in the form of a Security Tact which has been submitted by the British Government?
– Australia will again bo represented at the Assembly of League of Nations in September next, and in the near future I hope to be in the position to announce the personnel of the delegation. When the report of the delegates to the last meeting of the Assembly is submitted to the House at an early date, honorable members will have an opportunity to discuss the matter to which the honorable member has referred.
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Mr.FENTON.- I should like to know if the money for the construction of main roads set aside during the financial year for the states, but not made use of by some of them and not fully used by others, will, at the end of the year revert to the Commonwealth Treasury or whether it will be added to the amount which this Parliament will be asked to grant to the states during the present session? I should also like to know if the Prime Minister has considered the wisdom of anticipating the decision of Parliament and making money available at a very early date in order that the states may set on foot various works for the purpose of giving work to the unemployed ?
– The money set aside last session for the states will remain available to them, and will not revert to the Commonwealth at the end of the financial year. The Government has intimated to the states that if any road construction commenced under the original grant is now being held up through want of funds it is prepared to make available monthly sums on the basis of the vote which was authorized by this Parliament last year.
– In considering the granting of further assistance to the states for road construction, will the Government make every effort to alter the conditions surrounding the grant and thus make it easier for the states to take advantage of the assistance afforded, which they are now unable to do because of those conditions ?
– The whole of the conditions upon which this money is made available to the states are now under the consideration of the Government in connexion with a proposed further grant.
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– I have received the following telegram from the secretary to the Iron Workers’ Assistants’ Union, Sydney : -
Another 30 men dismissed from Cockatoo Dockyard through slackness of work.
Will the Prime Minister take steps to have work provided for the men engaged at the Cockatoo Island Dockyard, so that they may not be thrown upon an already overcrowded labour market?
– The Government is doing everything in its power to expedite the commencement of the construction of the seaplane carrier proposed to be built at Cockatoo Island. In the near future the construction of that vessel should tend to relieve the position at the island.
page 265
Air FoRCE Station - Automatic Telephone Exchanges.
Mr. GREGORY brought up the reports of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, together with minutes of evidence relating to the proposed establishment of a Royal Australian Air Force station (No. 2) at Richmond, New South Wales, and the proposed erection of automatic telephone exchanges at West Adelaide, South Australia, and at Lakemba and Manly, New South Wales.
Ordered to be printed.
page 265
Emungalan to Daly Waters Railway - Oil Tanks
– When will the Works and Railways Department be in a position to proceed with the earthworks on the proposed Emungalan to Daly Waters railway, and when will a commencement be made with the construction of the oil tanks at Darwin?
– The work in connexion with the proposed railway cannot be undertaken until the Katherine River bridge has been completed. The matter is now under consideration.
page 265
– On the 11th June I asked the Treasurer if it were a fact that the instruction had been issued by the New South Wales branch of the Taxation Department that graziers might deduct from their statements of income 40 per cent, of all contributions to a strike fund to fight the Australian Workers Union. The honorable gentlemen promised to furnish me with a reply?
– As soon as I receive the information I shall let the honorable member have it.
page 265
– Will the Prime Minister take the earliest opportunity to inform the House of the reasons for the delay in completing the arrangements for a reciprocal tariff with Canada ?
– Some time ago the Commonwealth Government received a communication on the subject from the Government of Canada, and last Monday, ‘ Mr. Ross, the Canadian Trade Commissioner, returned to Australia with certain representations which the Canadian Government desired to be madeto the Australian Government. I hope to be able to make a full statement to the House very soon.
page 265
– In regard to the decision of the Postal Department to discontinue the payment of commission on the sale of stamps, I have received from one person interested a letter which says, inter alia -
This we regard as grossly unfair. We are a considerable convenience to the public; our shop is open before 7 o’clock in the morning and is not closed until 8 o’clock in the evening, so we are available to the public for over four hours each day when the post office is closed. The vendors must save the Department a lot of work, as more assistants would be required for the sale of stamps in the small quantities asked for, so the saving in commission would be swallowed up in the increased working expenses.
The letter proceeds to strengthen that argument in a number of ways. Having regard to the undoubted services being rendered to the community by the retailers of stamps, will the PostmasterGeneral explain why the payment- -of commission has been discontinued?
– If the honorable member will give me particulars of that case, I shall see that it is dealt with on its merits.
– But other honorable members have received similar communications.
– I assure the House that there is no desire to inconvenience the public, and the Department proposes to continue the licences held by persons who are rendering special services to the community.
– I did not notice earlier that a question, substantially the same as that asked by the honorable member for Batman, appears on the notice-paper in the name of another honorable member. The anticipation of business already on the notice-paper is not in order.
page 266
– Can the Minister for Trade and Customs inform the House whether, following upon the announcement m the Governor-General’s Speech that the tariff will be dealt with this session, there has been any abnormal withdrawal of goods from bond?
– I have no knowledge that that has occurred, but if the honorable member will put his question upon the notice-paper I shall have close inquiries made and let him know the result.
page 266
– Recently I asked the Prime Minister’s Department to have a testing station for explosives erected in Australia, and was told that the matter was receiving attention. As there is urgent need for such a station, will the Prime Minister see that the consideration . of the proposal is expedited?
– I shall look into the matter, and endeavour to have, it expedited.
page 266
– Will the PostmasterGeneral inform the House whether the Government intends to establish an aerial mail service between the mainland arid Tasmania; if so, when will tenders be called ?
– The question should have been addressed to the Minister for Defence. I shall discuss it with him, and give the honorable member later any information that is available.
page 266
– Has the Governmentconsidered the advisability of granting a, preferential tariff upon rubber, sisal hemp,, and other products of Papua, whosepeople are suffering great disabilities?
– The honorable member will have noted- in the GovernorGeneral’s Speech the statement that theGovernment intends to carefully considerthat problem.
page 266
– Does the Minister for Defence approve of officers of the Australian Navy taking members of thenaval forces off the strength, and using: them as personal servants in their private? residences ?
– I have noknowledge that that’ is done, but I shall’ make inquiries.
page 266
– State loans amounting to- £38,000,000, and Commonwealth loanstotalling £66,000,000 will shortly mature. Will the Treasurer avail himself of theLoan Conversion Act to issue consols for the £66,000,000, instead of placing a. fresh loan on the market, and so inflating; the interest rate ?
– The honorablemember’s suggestion will receive consideration when the renewal or redemption o£ the loan is being dealt with.
page 266
– I ask the PostmasterGeneral if he will give attention to theposition of allowance post offices, in Victoria at all’ events, and where the remuneration paid is inadequate, if he willi increase the amount to what, in his; opinion, is fair. I ask this question because the postmaster at Dergholm handles; a tremendous amount of mail matter, and, I understand, receives only £1 per week ? “Mr. GIBSON.- I shall do so.
page 266
Road Maps: Unexpended Amounts ~ Tasmanian Application
asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice - .
Will he cause to be prepared, and madeavailable to members, a map or maps, showing the roads in each state upon which the moneys voted by Parliament in 1923 and 1924 respectively have been spent?
– A locality plan of each particular road is supplied with every proposal. General maps of New South Wales, Victoria, and Western Australia showing the roads dealt with can be inspected by the honorable member. Similar maps are being obtained from other states.
asked the Minister for Works andRailways, upon notice -
What is the amount remaining unexpended on 1st June, 1925, by each of the states, of the £1,000,000 made available to the states by the Commonwealth for main road development under the Main Roads Development Acts.
– The particulars desired by the honorable member are as follows: -
asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice-
– The total amount available under the act for the two years is £50,000, out of which it is understood commitments to the extent of £23,000 have been entered into, but the estimated expenditure to 30th June next will be about £10,500.
page 267
International Labour Organization
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
As regards the recommendations, one of these is being complied with by the Commonwealth, the other four are inapplicable or are unnecessary under Australian conditions, and the League of Nations has been advised accordingly.
1920- 1- £68,350.
1921- 2- £40,984.
1922- 3- £37,470.
1923- 4-£34,620.
1924- 5- £20,529 (to date).
The cost of the Australian delegations to the International Labour Conference is as follows : -
1919- 20- £1,801.
1920- 1- £337.
1921- 2- £1,175.
1923- 4- £935.
1924- 5- £1,023.
page 268
Recommendations of Experts
asked the Minister representing the Minister for Markets and Migration, upon notice -
– The honorable the Minister has supplied the following answers to the honorable member’s questions : -
page 268
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
Is it a fact that the Sandy Bay Rifle Range has become positively dangerous to the inhabitants of that district; and, if so, is it the intention of the Government to take into consideration the immediate removal of the same?’
– It is not considered that the use of the Sandy Bay Rifle Range constitutes any danger to the inhabitants of the district. The question of the removal of the range has, however, been under consideration for some time on other grounds, but another suitable convenient site has not yet been located.
page 268
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
– The honorable member asked similar questions last session, and I would refer him to my reply published in Hansard on 25th September, 1924, page 4762. Mr. Kay is at present an unattached officer in the 3rd Division of the Public Service. The answer to question No. 4 is £1,752 5s. 8d.
page 268
asked the PrimeMinister, upon notice -
– In view of the failure to effect a sale of the Line except under conditions which would defeat the basic principle of the Government’s shipping policy, which is the protection of Australian interests, the Government has decided to continue the Line under its. existing form ofcontrol, and endeavour to eliminate those factors which are at present operating to its detriment.
page 269
asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -
– The honorable the Minister has supplied the following answers to the honorable member’s questions: -
No inquiry has been held with a view to closing clown the tile works. In order to be satisfied that the best possible results were being secured from its brick and tile works, the Federal Capital Commission engaged the services of an expert in brick manufacturing, and an expert in tile manufacturing, to visit the respective works, examine raw material and factory methods, and report to the commission as to what could be done to improve matters. The reports of the experts are now receiving the attention of the commission.
page 269
Position of Commonwealth
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : - 1.The Treaty of Commerce and Navigation concluded between Great Britain and Italy in 1883 did not apply automatically to the Australian colonies, but all the latter, with the exception of South Australia, voluntarily agreed tobecome parties thereto.
In 1909, the British Foreign Office, at the request of the Commonwealth Government, communicated to the Italian Government the desire of the Commonwealth to withdraw from the Treaty. The reply was received, however, that the Italian Government, after consideration, was unable to recognize the right of the Commonwealth to withdraw, and could not agree to the proposal.
Consideration of the question by the law officers confirmed the statement that the Commonwealth had no right, under the Treaty, to withdraw, and couldbe released only by the favour of the Italian Government. The only way in which the release of the Commonwealth could be secured, apart from this, would be by the British Government denouncing the Treaty as a whole. For reasons of state it was not considered desirable to do this. 2 and 3. See reply to No. 1.
page 269
asked theT reasurer, upon notice -
– The replies to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
It may be mentioned that against the amount of £156,066 14s. 3d. covered by the writ, Sir Sidney Kidman has paid, at the instance of the Department, an amount of £5,631 9s. 2d., which, together with all previous payments of land tax paid by him for the years 1914-15 to 1923-4, both inclusive, brought his total payments on account of his freehold interests in land up to £15,000.
At that time the tax due on his leaseholds was the subject of reconsideration, in view of amended returns and additional information which had then been supplied. The amount due on account of leaseholds is now being investigated, with a view to an early finalization of the whole of the assessments.
page 269
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
page 270
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
page 270
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
In view of the proposed introduction of tariff changes this session, will he undertake that when the Government’s proposals are submitted he will supply honorable members with copies of the complete evidence taken by the Tariff Board with regard to any items dealt with in those proposals?
– It would be impracticable to comply with the honorable member’s request. The files of evidence in many instances are voluminous. In the case of timber the evidence alone covers 1,200 page3 pf typed matter. The Tariff Board has refrained from requesting that these documents be printed on the ground of expense.
page 270
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice - ‘
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are:-
page 270
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
Have the difficulties which arose between tire Commonwealth and State Governments regarding provision for mental soldier cases in Western Australia been satisfactorily settled? If so, will he make a full statement to the House as to the arrangement made?
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -
page 271
Payments to Agricultural Bank
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -
page 271
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 271
Production of Files
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
Whether he will have placed on the table of the Library the files relating to: - 654 C.S.M. Alec Norman MacLeod, 27th Battalion; and 4808 Private E. Jackson, 32nd Battalion?
– No. In view of the very confidential nature of the files held by the Repatriation Commission regarding personal cases, it is not considered desirable to place such files on the table of the library. However, I am willing to allow honorable members, either in conjunction with myself or with a senior officer of the Repatriation Commission, to go through the file in any particular case which they specially bring under my notice; and I shall be glad to take this action in regard to the cases referred to by the honorable member for Adelaide.
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
Whether he will lay on the table of the library the file relating to No. 528 Private W. Copeland, 27th Battalion, Australian Imperial Force ?
– The answer given by me to the honorable member for Adelaide, in reply to his previous question also applies in this case.
page 272
South Australian WORKS
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
What is the reason that the approved works in connexion with the construction of post offices and other postal facilities at Gladstone (South Australia), Jamestown (South Australia), Kimba (South Australia), and Port Pirie (South Australia) respectively, after being approved, are now to be reconsidered with a view of amended plans being submitted ?
– The answer to the honorable member’s question is as follows : -
Gladstone and Port Pirie. - No amendment of an approved plan has been made in either of these cases. Plans of the proposed buildings are now under consideration. Jamestown. - The work is in hand’, and it is anticipated that it will be completed by the end of July next. Kimba. - A modification of the original design is under consideration with a> view to providing the necessary facilities with due economy.
page 272
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
page 272
asked the Minister for Works and Railways, upon notice -
Will he supply a statement to Western Australian members showing what grants have been approved by him for developmental roads, the amount of such grant, and the name of the Road Board within whose area the work is to be, or has been, constructed?
– Information is being obtained, and will be circulated to Western Australian members.
page 272
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
page 272
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : - 1 and 2. The question of establishing a system of decimal coinage has received consideration from time to time, but no decision has been arrived at.
page 273
Investigation by Tariff Board.
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
Whether the Tariff Board have investigated and reported to him in regard to the following allegations made to them: -
If so, will he state the result of such investigations ?
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 273
Supply of Alcoholic Liquors
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
In view of the fact that the sale of fermented and spirituous liquors is prohibited in every portion of the Federal Capital Territory, will he take steps to ensure that no such liquors are provided for the Federal Parliament House now being erected in that area?
– The suggestion of the honorable member will receive consideration.
page 273
Inspection by Sir George Buchanan.
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
Whether, in view of the importance of the ports of Bunbury and Albany, in Western Australia, the Government would grant the ser vices of Sir George Buchanan to inspect and make reports thereon?
– On Sir George Buchanan’s arrival in Australia, the question of his services being made available to Western Australia was generally approved, andhe had several preliminary diseussions with the harbour authorities in that state. In view, however, of the subsequent reported appointment as chief engineer in Western Australia of Mr. F. W. Stileman, whose specialty is harbour and dock works, it is considered that if Sir George Buchanan now undertook to report on Western Australian harbours,such action would considerably embarrass Mr. Stileman in the work which he is being appointed specially to perform, and that Sir George Buchanan could only appropriately be brought into the matter after Mr. Stileman had prepared his schemes, and then, not as an independent engineer to prepare another scheme, but as a consultant. As Mr. Stileman is not expected to arrive in Perth until next August, it would be impossible, in the time at Sir George Buchanan’s disposal, to discuss this matter with that gentleman. The Premier of Western Australia has, therefore, been informed that the Commonwealth Government does not propose to ask Sir George Buchanan to proceed to Western Australia to report upon the harbours in that state.
page 273
Application of Industries Preservation Act
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 274
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow :-
page 274
Application to Navy Storehouse Staff
asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
page 274
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 274
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
What were the total importations, pf bananas into each state of the Commonwealth during the years 1922, 1923, and 1924 respectively, and what was the country of origin of the consignments in each case?
– The information isbeing obtained.
page 275
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
In connexion with the interpretation of section 15 (5) (c) of the War-time Profits Tax Assessment Act 1917-1918, will he please inform the House -
What, in the opinion of the Commis-. sioner of Taxation, constitutes the “amount of the tax (if any) paid by the company “ ?
If, for example, the taxable income of a company (as shown by its income tax assessment) was £1,000, and its profits as adjusted for war-time profits tax were £2,000 (being £1,000, plus £1,500 excess salary, less £500 further depreciation), is “the amount of tax paid by the company “ the tax actually paid in respect of its taxable income, namely, £125, or is it the amount of tax that would have been payable by the company on the adjusted profits of £2,000, namely, £250?
If “ the tax paid by the company “ is neither of the foregoing amounts of £125 or £250, then what is it?
– The question involves the interpretation of the War-time Profits Tax Assessment Act. That act specially provides means by which taxpayers may obtain from a court an authoritative ruling on such questions. No good purpose can, therefore, be served by any particular replies being given to the questions, beyond stating that in the specific case quoted by the honorable member the tax payable in respect of the profits is £125, if that is the correct amount of the tax on the taxable income of £1,000 in that particular case.
page 275
Production, Imports, and Exports
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
– The information i being obtained.
page 275
asked the Treasurer, upon notice -
Will he supply the following information: -
Total per capita payments made to each state for the financial year ended 30th June, 1924?
Amount of Federal income tax collected in each state for the same year?
Amount collected at the central office, showing the apportionment between the several states according to the source of the taxable income?
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 275
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 275
Inspection by Sir George Buchanan.
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– The answer to the honorable member’s questions is as follows : -
No request was received from the Chamber of Commerce, Bowen, or from any other source, that the services of Sir George Buchanan should be made available to report on the Bowen Harbour.
I am informed by Sir George Buchanan that he would have liked to have visited Bowen Harbour in connexion with his general report to the Government on the harbours in Australia, but that, in the absence of any invitation from the harbour authorities, he was not in a position to do so. He has, however, recently written to the secretary of the Bowen Harbour Board requesting to be supplied with particulars regarding that port. On receipt of these particulars, Sir George Buchanan will be glad to advise the Harbour Board as far as possible.
page 276
Supervision op Magistrates.
asked the Minister representing the Minister for Home and Territories, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as fol low : - 1, 2, 3, and 4. The desired information is not available in Melbourne, but is being obtained from the Territory.
page 276
asked the Minister representing the Minister for Markets and Migration, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
In the case of cattle from New Zealand -
In the case of cattle from the United Kingdom or Canada or the United States of America -
A declaration from the owner, certify ing-
page 277
Payment of Child Endowment
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice - 1, Why has, the child endowment not yet been paid to transferred Commonwealth taxation officers in Sydney?
– Child endowment has not been paid to those officers, because the Government of New South Wales has refused to do so on the ground that such payments are not covered by the agreement between the Governments of the Commonwealth and New South Wales. The matter is now under consideration by the Commonwealth law officers, and efforts are being made to expedite a settlement.
page 277
Security Pact
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– I refer the honorable member to the answer I gave to a question asked without notice this morning by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Charlton). I then said that the notes exchanged between Germany, France, and Great Britain were published in London last night, and should be available in Australia to-day. I hope to be able to reply to the first question asked by the honorable member, and to the Leader of the Opposition, later to-day.
page 277
asked the Prime Minister, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -
page 278
asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -
In cases of allowance post-offices where, owing to the introduction of charging on the aerial distance for trunk line messages, the revenue is reduced, will he undertake that no officer in charge of such an allowance office will he paid less than the amount previously received ?
– I was anxious that no allowance postmaster should be penalized as a consequence of the revised system of charging for trunk line calls, and, on the introduction of the new scheme, I arranged that these officers would not suffer.
page 278
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
Is it a fact that a bonus is being, or has been, paid by the Department on fencing wire made in Australia and whichhas been used in the making of nails?
– When the Iron and Steel Products Bounty Act 1922 was enacted it provided for the payment of certain bounties. Simultaneously, import duties to the exact equivalent of the bounties were removed. Thus, bounty was substituted for tariff protection. Wire known as fencing wire of specified gauges is admitted free of duty, irrespective of the use to which it may ultimately be put. Similarly, bounty is paid on fencing wire, irrespective of the use to which it may be put. It is possible that some of this wire may have been used in making nails.
page 278
asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -
– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -
page 278
asked the Treasurer upon notice -
Can he supply the House with information showing the amount of capital brought intoAustralia by migrants during the past twelvemonths?
– Assuming that the honorable member refers to assisted migrants only, the total amount of declared capital in connexion with suck migrants who arrived in the Commonwealth during the twelve months ended the 31st May, 1925, is £388,320.
page 278
asked the. Treasurer, upon notice -
What are the amounts of loans of the various states and the Commonwealth redeemable at the latest date of maturity for thefinancial years 1925-6 and 1926-7 respectively?
– The information, so far as state loans are concerned, is not available in financial years. The particulars for the years 1925, 1926, and 1927 are as follows: -
page 278
– Referring to the questions which the honorable member for Dalley (Mr. Mahony) asked me without notice on the 11th June regarding the purchase of insulators during the last financial year, the following is the information which I promised to furnish to him: -
No insulators were ordered from Germany during 1924-5, but what the honorable member as probably referring to is an order placed with Czecho-Slovakia in February, 1924, for the supply of 300,000 insulators, at prices ranging from Od. to 8$d. each, compared with Australian prices ranging from 8d. to 9d. “The reasons for this purchase were fully explained in my reply to the honorable member for Maribyrnong on the 30th September, 1924, published on page 48C1 of Hansard. The Department has purchased 2,074,000 “A” pattern insulators in the Commonwealth during 1924-5 ranging in prices from 8d. to 9d., and 2,282,000 “ B “ insulators ranging from 4d. to 6d. each. Of the total supplies, 129,000 “ A “ insulators and 51,000 “ B “ insulators were sent to Western Australia, and -22,000 “ B “ insulators were manufactured by -a local firm in- Western Australia at a price <of.5d. each.
page 279
– On the 10th June the
Tight honorable member for North Sydney (Mr. W. M. Hughes) requested particulars showing the number of migrants, other than those of British origin, who have entered the Commonwealth during -the last three years. The information desired by the right honorable member is as follows: -
page 279
– On the 10th June the honorable member for Barton (Mr. F. McDonald) asked whether the Government had considered the question of taking action to assist the dependants of the Australian explorer, the late David Lindsay. I informed him that I would advise him fully regarding the matter at an early date. I now desire to inform the honorable member that when thisquestion was first considered by the Government it was decided that provided the State Governments of South Australia and New South Wales (the states with which the late David Lindsay was most intimately associated) each agreed to contribute a like amount, the Commonwealth Government would make a contribution of £250 - a total of £750. The Premiers of these states were accordingly approached,, but they advised that their respective Governments were not prepared to co-operate with the Commonwealth Government in the suggestion. In these circumstances, the Commonwealth Government took no further action at the time in regard to the matter. In response, however, to subsequent - representations, the Commonwealth Government decided last year to make an independent grant of £250, and this amount has been paid over to David Lindsay’s widow.
page 279
– On the 10th June, the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr. E. Riley) asked whether a copy of the report of the royal commission appointed by the Queensland Government to inquire into the influx of Southern Europeans into that state had been received by me; and, if so, whether copies of the report would be made available for honorable members? Copies of this report have been received within the past few days from the Queensland Government, and a copy has been placed in the Parliamentary Library for the information of honorable members.
page 279
– On the 10th June, in reply to a question by the honorable member for. Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton), I promised to have a statement prepared showing the position with regard to the expenditure by the states in connexion with the grant by the Commonwealth of £1,000,000 for main road development under the Main Roads Development Acts. I now desire to direct the honorable member’s attention to the statement supplied by the honorable the Minister for “Works and Railways in reply to a question on to-day’s notice-paper asked by the honorable member for Moreton (Mr. J. Francis).
page 280
– On the 11th June, the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr. E. Riley) asked me if I had any further information to give the House with regard to the number of men put off at Garden Island? The position is that Garden Island, like other ship repair-yards and dockyards, is subject to fluctuations in the number of employees, and last year similar variations took place as are reported this year. It is the usual practice to have as much work as possible done within the financial year, within the provision on the Estimates, and the exact period when the maximum numbers are employed depends to some extent on the location of the warships and ships concerned. The total number of men employed at Garden Island in February last was 893, and during the months of March and April an increase in the number of employees was necessary in consequence of several vessels arriving at Garden Island for annual overhaul and repair. This necessitated the temporary engagement of some 250 men, who fully understood the temporary nature of the job and that their employment would cease within a month or two. There are now 937 men employed at Garden Island. I may say that, with a view to avoiding the necessity for discharging large numbers of men at any particular time, I am issuing instructions that such temporary work is, in future, to be distributed throughout the year, as far as the requirements of the department will permit.
page 280
The following papers were presented : -
Norfolk Island - Report for the year ended 30 th June, 1924.
Papua - Annual Report for the year 1922- 1923.
Ordered to be printed.
Migration - Agreement between the British and Commonwealth Governments regardingarrangements for the settlement in Australia of an increasing number of assisted migrants.
Migration - Australian Passage Agreement made between the British and Commonwealth Governments.
Northern Territory Acceptance Act and Northern Territory (Administration) Act - Ordinance No. 12 of 1925 - Registration,
Public Service Act - Regulations Amended - StatutoryRules 1925, No. 96.
page 280
Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -
That the House will, at a later hour this day, resolve itself into a committee to consider the Supply to be granted to His Majesty.
page 280
Motion (by Mr. Bruce) agreed to -
That the House will, at a later hour this day, resolve itself into a committee to consider the Ways and Means for raising the Supply to be granted to His Majesty.
page 280
Motion (by Mr. Bruce) proposed -
That, unless otherwise ordered, this* House shall meet for the dispatch of business at 3 o’clock on each Wednesday afternoon, at half-past 2 o’clock on each Thursday afternoon, and at 11 o’clock on each Friday morning.
.- From conversations I have had with Ministers and other members of the Queensland Parliament, I am satisfied that they are very pleased with the change to day sittings from afternoon and evening sessions. I shall content myself at this stage with intimating that it is my intention to place a motion on the notice-paper to give honorable members an opportunity of discussing the desirability of adopting a similar change in this House.
– Why not try it when Parliament meets at Canberra?
– There would be some advantage in having the matter debated before we go to Canberra.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
page 281
In Committee of Supply:
Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) agreed to-
That there be granted to His Majesty, for or towards defraying the services of the year 1925-6, a sum not exceeding £4,459,235.
Resolution reported.
Standing Orders suspended ; resolution adopted.
Resolution of Ways and Means founded on resolution of Supply reported and adopted.
Ordered -
That Dr. Earle Page and Mr. Bruce do prepare and bring in a bill to carry out the foregoing resolution.
Bill presented by Dr. Earle Page, and read a first time.
Motion (by Dr. Earle Page) proposed -
That the bill be now read a second time.
.- I asked a question this morning - I have submitted it on numerous other occasions - regarding the conversion of loans, but one might as well chase rainbows as attempt to get any information from this Government, or induce Ministers to give serious thought to this highly important matter. On the 15th December of this year loans to the states amounting to over £38,000,000, and Commonwealth loans to the extent of £66,000,000, will fall due. If it is desired to act against the best interests of Great Britain, we cannot do worse than make heavy calls upon the public at the present time. The unemployed problem in Great Britain is so acute that Australia will need to do what she can to assist the Old Country to regain the proud position she held in the financial world prior to the war. The Loans Conversion Act was passed by this Parliament, I think, during the period when you, Mr. Speaker, occupied a seat on the Treasury bench. The object of that measure, I take it, was to enable us to place our finances on a satisfactory footing, and avoid harassing the people by increasing their interest burdens. I should like to know if the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) is prepared to avail himself of the Loans Conversion Act. The present holders of script or bonds could be given consols which would be negotiable, and could bo issued at the present rate of 4½ per cent., or at an even lower rate. We should remember that the loans falling due were raised during a time of great stress, when the world was shaken to its foundations. The Treasurer would not be justified in placing a new loan on the market, for if he did, interest at the rate of 6 per cent., which was the rate charged for the last loan issued at £98 10s., would have to be paid. The conversion of these gilt-edged securities would weaken the loan market for some time. State loans which fall due this year have been spent on various governmental activities, and the money has thus been kept in circulation. But this does not apply to the £66,000,000 Commonwealth loan falling due this year, it being known in the financial world as a dead loan. The position of the Commonwealth would be very much weakened if a new conversion loan were issued for five or ten years. Any such action would place upon future generations a burden which we ought to be honest enough to bear ourselves. I cannot elicit from the Government any definite information on this momentous subject, and no doubt my suggestion will, as before, fall on deaf ears. The possibility of the repudiation of this loan has been spoken of, but nothing of that nature will be tolerated by this party when it sits on the treasury benches. The bulk of the Commonwealth bonds falling due are held by large institutions, such as insurance companies and mutual provident societies. Their influence is so great that the Treasurer is very nervous about making alterations which do not meet with their approval. It was due to these large interests that certain gentlemen were placed on the board of the Commonwealth Bank. I impute nothing against them. I merely draw attention to the position they occupy because in their deliberations the businesses with which they are connected must have first consideration. If honorable members will refer to my previous speeches, they will find that my suggestion is not a new one. As far back as 1794 the same thing was done by the British Parliament, and since that time many Chancellors of the Exchequer in
Great Britain have adopted a similar course. That action was taken because 01 the heavy costs incurred in connexion with previous wars. In this connexion I should like to refer to Mr. Goschen, a British Minister who was content to remain plain “ Mister.”
– He was made Viscount Goschen of Hawkshurst later.
– I am sorry that he so disgraced himself as to accept a title. He needed no such distinction to enhance his already good reputation. I should like to see introduced a system of interminable loans, which could be redeemed at «ny time, so that eventually the whole £729,000,000 which constitutes Australia’s public debt would be repaid. I am aware that provision has already been made for the redemption of certain loans, but the amount redeemed each year is so -small as to be almost of no effect in reducing our liabilities. The redemption, moreover, applies only to loans other than war loans. For our war loans of over £400, 000,000 no provision for redemption has been made. These loans are different from loans for railways, waterworks, or harbour improvements, in that no asset rem aius as the result of the expenditure of the money borrowed. The Ministry, or the Parliament, that makes no proper attempt to redeem these loans, or to lessen the interest which the people of Australia are called upon to =pay, acts inimically to the interests of Australia. Were these loans redeemed, further money would be placed in circulation in Australia, and would be available for financing housing schemes, water supplies, and irrigation works, as well as for the establishment and encouragement of industries. To-day, because of the heavy interest charges that we are called upon to meet, our industries are languishing, while at the same time there is in our midst an army of persons living in luxury because of the transactions in gilt-edged securities. As a consequence, commerce is being adversely affected. I do not pose as an authority in these matters, but as the question of loans is an important one, I think there should “be a larger attendance of honorable members. I, therefore, call attention to the state of the House.
– It is unusual for an “honorable member to draw attention to the state of the House” when he is speaking, but my attention having been drawn to the matter, my duty under the Standing Orders is clear - I must count for a quorum.
The bells having been rung,
– There is now a quorum present. I think that I ought to say, for the information of the honorable member for East Sydney, that in all probability honorable members would prefer to discuss loan propositions on the next order of the day, when a Loan Bill will be before us. While his remarks are in order, it certainly would be more appropriate - and, I think, appreciated by the House - if loan questions were discussed in connexion with the Loan Bill.
– I am always anxious to meet the convenience of honorable members, but it was because I realized the seriousness of this matter that I desired the presence in the chamber of honorable members, who frequently display an indifference to these important questions. I shall avail myself of the opportunity to discuss this matter again when the Loan Bill is before us.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
Bill read a second time.
In committee:
Clause 1 (Short title).
– I agree with you, Mr. Speaker, that the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. West) would be more in. order if he were to discuss the funding of our war debt when the Loan Bill is before the House. I shall reply to his suggestions and criticisms when I am speaking on that bill.
– I have not finished my remarks yet.
– Then I shall reply to the honorable member when he has finished.
In explaining this Supply Bill, I remind honorable members that the unexpended votes included in the annual appropriations out of revenue lapse on the 30th June. The Government is, therefore, unable to pay for the ordinary expenses of administration until Parliament grants fresh Supply. It is particularly necessary this year that Supply shall be granted before the commencement of the new financial year, for the reason that the first salary pay day falls on the 3rd of July; and some time is necessary, after the Supply Bill is passed by the Senate, to obtain the GovernorGeneral’s warrant, and to make the necessary credit available to the more distant states. This bill is to cover approximately two months’ expenditure. A total of £4,459,235 is being asked for to meet the following expenditure : - Ordinary departmental expenditure (including repatriation), £3,109,235; refunds of revenue, £350,000 ; advance to Treasurer, £1,000,000. No provision is being made for expenditure that has not been approved by Parliament, and the amounts included in the bill are based on the Estimates for 1924-25. The amount of £3,109,235, which is asked for to meet ordinary departmental expenditure and repatriation expenses, is an increase of £93,311 over one-sixth of the estimated expenditure on these services for the current financial year, but the increase is more than accounted for by the additional provision necessary to meet the cost of arbitration awards granted since the Estimates for 1924-25 were framed. It must be remembered, also, that five pay days fall within the period to .be covered by this Supply. The amount of £350,000 provided for refunds of revenue is also in excess of one-sixth of the total expenditure for the year. The additional amount is required because the assessment of refunds of direct taxation following upon the Dalrymple judgment, and on the amendment of the law in respect to the optional method of valuation of live stock, have not yet been completed. It will be remembered that the Lessee Tax Bill was rejected in another place last year, and, consequently, refunds to a much greater extent than was anticipated when the budget proposals were made have been rendered necessary. The amount of £1,000,000 for advance to the Treasurer is provided mainly to continue public works in progress at the 30th June, pending the passing of the Loan Bill and the Appropriation (Works and Buildings) Bill for 1925-26. The finances for the year just closing are in a highly satisfactory condition. The Customs revenue for the first ten months of the year was buoyant, and even if the shrinkage in the May figures is continued in June the total for the year will still show a substantial increase on the estimate. There appears to be no doubt that the year will close with a surplus considerably in excess of the budget estimate of £626,035 ; but as the closing weeks of the year have a marked bearing on its net financial operations it is not possible to forecast the result with any certainty. I am arranging to make available early in July an approximate statement for the full year, and I feel sure that the figures then disclosed will not be materially altered when the final returns are available. I propose to bring down the budget as early as possible in the new year, and before the Supply now asked for is exhausted honorable members will have been informed of the Government’s financial proposals for 1925-26.
Clause agreed to.
Clauses 2 to 4 agreed to.
Schedule.
.- I move -
That Divisions 1 to 8 - “ The Parliament, £11,486,” be reduced by £1.
I move this amendment as a direction to the Government to take immediate steps to establish a compulsory wheat pool, and to enter at once into negotiations with, the respective states for that purpose. In Australia, as in other parts of the civilized world, the tendency to-day among producers is to become cooperators instead of antagonists. The Australian producers are in a favorable position to form a compulsory wheat pool. We have the Commonwealth Bank, the Commonwealth Line of Steamers, such wheat-handling agencies as the Farmers Co-operative Union, and the Government silos, all of which have had some years of experience in handling the wheat of this country with both compulsory and voluntary wheat pools. A compulsory pool is necessary in order to reduce the cost of handling the crop, and to prevent chaos and confusion. If a pool is to be of any value it must be controlled by one authority, and in Australia that authority should be the Commonwealth Government. The Government could arrange to finance the pool through the people’s bank, for which it would be good business, and by making use of the Commonwealth Line of Steamers it could at the commencement of the harvest have vessels available at every port of shipment to take the wheat away without delay. In Victoria, the State Premier, Mr. Allan, has said that he is prepared to make provision for a five-years’ voluntary pool; but it is quite probable that in some of the other states a compulsory pool may be decided upon, and this difference in method must inevitably increase the cost of handling the crop. The saving of every penny iii the cost of handling the nation’s crops is a matter worthy of consideration by the national government.. If by the control of the Commonwealth Government of a compulsory wheat pool, financed by the “Commonwealth Bank, and with the use of the Commonwealth Line of Steamers to transport the wheat, we could save 3d. or 6d. per bushel in the cost of handling the crop, that would be a valuable gain to those who are producing the wheat. The tendency in Victoria, and throughout Australia, is towards cooperation. The handling of the wheat crop by a compulsory pool was favoured by the Farmers Council which met in this state a few days ago. At the close of one of its resolutions it said -
That the council is strongly of opinion that to be fully effective a compulsory pool should lie Australia wide.
This is the resolution of men with experience in the production and handling of wheat, and nien who, like myself, have also had experience of the way in which wheat-growers are treated by the wheatbuying agents of this country. Prior to the compulsory pool established in 1915-6, the wheat-buying agents of Australia were offering 2s., 2s. Gd., and 2s. 9d. per bushel when they knew perfectly well that the price would rise up to anything from 4s. 9d. to 69. per bushel. This proves that they were not prepared to give the wheat producers. a fair deal. They told’-‘ the wheat-growers that they would not be . able to get any shipping because of the war. They said that they were themselves taking a risk in offering 2s. 6d. per bushel, since they might be unable to get ships to take the wheat away, and it might rot whilst it waa in their possession. They knew perfectly well that they would be able to get all the shipping they required to get the wheat away, and they expected to make huge fortunes out of the wheatgrowers of Australia. Having realized how greatly the wheat producers, butter producers, and other primary producers in this country have been fleeced from time to time by middlemen, it is the duty of the national government, in fairness to the men who are doing the work of producing the wealth of the country, to establish a compulsory wheat pool in their interests. I quote the following to show what they think in Canada about” the national handling of produce and a national marketing policy -
The federal authorities in Canada are organizing a national marketing agency for the butter producers of the Dominion. In reference to this project the Canadian Bank of Commerce says it is considered desirable to place as many as possible of the basic industries of the country in a position to take fuller advantage of the available markets.
That is common sense. If it is a good thing for the Government of Canada to establish a national handling agency for the butter producers of that country, it should be also a good thing for the Commonwealth Government .to give the farmers in Australia what they are asking for, and that is a compulsory wheat pool. The pool could be managed by a board chosen from the men who produce the wheat, and with Government representatives. It could be backed up by the Commonwealth Bank, and our own line of steamers should be used to carry the wheat from Australia to overseas markets. Another advantage to be derived from the establishment of a compulsory pool would be that the members of the board controlling ‘it would have the right to say how much of the wheat should be shipped from the outer ports. No one will deny that the outer ports have not received a fair deal from the wheat-buying agents of Victoria - I speak of the state with which I am best acquainted. When there was no compulsory or voluntary pool the wheat-buying agents of this state sent the whole of the grain to Melbourne and Williamstown for shipment, and cut Portland, which is one of the finest ports in Australia, clean out of the business. It was only when a voluntary pool was established that the board controlling it gave Portland some measure of justice in the matter of wheat shipment. Prior to that not a single bag of wheat was shipped abroad from Portland, and there has not been a bag of wheat sent from either Port Fairy or Warrnambool in recent years. What applies to the outer ports in Victoria in this connexion, no doubt applies with equal force to outer ports in the other states. We prate about decentralization, and the best way to bring it about is by the handling of the produce of the country through cooperative agencies which will see that the outer ports receive the share of the business of export to which they are entitled. This question is a very important one, and I trust the Prime Minister will give it his serious consideration. I am sure that he does not desire to see confusion between the states in the marketing and handling of the crop of one oi the finest industries in this country. The wheat industry is increasing in importance every year, and wheat in Australia is produced by a body of men who have introduced into this country the most up to date and scientific methods of farming. No one can deny that they produce the best wheat grown in any part of the world. I have the honour of representing in this Parliament one of the richest wheat belts in the Commonwealth if not in the world, and I know that a great majority of the farmers in my electorate desire a compulsory wheat pool. In 1921, when a ballot of the wheat-growers of Victoria was taken, 12,000 farmers voted in favour of the establishment of a compulsory pool, and only 1,000 votes were cast against the proposal. A state election was fought immediately afterwards on the question, and the decision of the electors favoured the establishment of such a pool, but, unfortunately, the Premier of the day would not accede to the wishes of the majority of the wheat-growers, and they had to fall back on their own resources. They have since carried on with a voluntary pool. The producers of Australia, particularly the wheat-growers, have in the past suffered severe losses through the marketing methods in operation prior to the formation of a wheat pool. To-day they are heavy losers owing to the ravages of mice, delays in getting wheat away from the stacks in the country, and the absence of silos. If the Commonwealth Government took up the matter seriously, and appointed a board to handle wheat, it should be its business to negotiate with the various State Governments for the erection of silos to enable grain to be handled in bulk. The erection of these silos would prevent the tremendous wastage that goes on year after year in the stacks, not only at the shipping ports, but also at the country railway sidings. Thousands and thousands of bushels of wheat have been destroyed in the stacks, either by mice or by the use of inferior bags. This is a dead loss, not only to the individual, but also to the nation. Another matter requiring: serious consideration from the Government is the manner in which purchasers of bags are being exploited. At the outset of the last wheat season bags were offering at 10s. 6d. per dozen, but many farmers refused to buy at that figure, because they thought the price would come down later on. However, there was a bountiful harvest, and the bag merchant realize.cE that it gave him an .opportunity to make a little harvest. Because of the manipulation of the importers, assisted by statements in the press that there was at shortage of bags, the price of bags rose in Victoria week after week until it reached 1.8s. 9d. a dozen. Men who charged 18s. 9d. a dozen for bags were not givingthe wheat-growers a fair deal. Putting it plainly, they. were robbing them. In order to show what treatment was meted out to the producers in days gone by - it is just as pronounced to-day - I quote the following petition, dated 7th February, 1903, which was forwarded by the produce agents of Brisbane to the Commissioner of Railways in Queensland : -
We, the undersigned, would be thankful if you will kindly take some action with regard to newspapers getting the fullest information with reference to consignments which are sent to ourselves from time to time.
What we allude to is the practice that the Courier has made lately of publishing lists giving the truck numbers, from whence the trucks come from, and the prices that the goods are sold at.
Of course, we are aware that you cannot do anything to prevent them going to the shed and taking down the prices that produce brings, but, on the other hand, you could assist us greatly in giving such instructions as would ensure a little privacy in our business transactions.
We understand the manner in which the representatives of the paper get their information is that they go and look at the little ticket which is attached to every truck, giving the truck number and from where the truck comes.
Might we suggest that these tickets should not lie on the trucks at all. Also, that books of railway giving information about the place of loading trucks be kept private, and only furnished to such individuals as belong to our offices.
You can readily understand it is very annoying, after sending buyers to the country and paying farmers spot cash at the places where the stuff is grown, for information to be flashed all over the place that their special lines of stuff made such-and-such a price.
We don’t object to farmers having a general idea that produce brought from such a price to such a price, according to quality, but wedo strongly object to such information being published as would enable the farmer to identify his particular lines.
We would esteem it a great favour if you would kindly instruct all officers of yours who have to do with advice notes, also all those who are in possession of the books with the information regarding where the truck is from, to kindly keep this information strictly private, and not to give it to any representative of the newspapers.
This petition was signed by Denham Brothers, J. Jackson and Company, Howes Brothers and Company, R. Raine, Robert Millar, and Chas. Taylor and Company.
Sitting suspended from 1.0 to 2.15 p.m.
– The letter I have quoted supplies fresh proof, if proof be necessary, that the producers of Queensland and other states were never given a fair deal. The conditions that obtained then obtain to-day, although they are, perhaps, disguised. No doubt we shall be told that the Government does not believe in compelling men to do that which they do not wish to “do. The pro- posed wheat pool would be the nearest approach to national’ co-operation that I can imagine, and would not infringe upon the rights of the individual. We have a Commonwealth Bank and a Commonwealth Shipping Line, and there are the various wheathandling agencies and co-operative bodies. Thus the machinery for a pool is already in existence, and, as the farmers strongly desire it to be established, the Government should say to them, “ Gentlemen, you desire the Government to finance a universal pool, and to place at your disposal the Commonwealth Line of Steamers for the export of your produce. We are prepared to do that, but there can be no half -measures ; we cannot permit a few individuals to stand out of the pool and reap the benefit of early offerings for wheat, whilst those whose product is in the pool have to wait some time in order to get a fair market.”
– - Are the wheatgrowers prepared to pay for the cost of organizing and administering such- a pool ?
– Of course the administration charges would be debited against the pool. That is a matter of detail to be arranged between the Government and representatives of the wheat-growers in all states. The time is opportune for the national Government to step in and handle this great undertaking. When the producers of the nation require assistance in marketing and handling their products, the Government should have no hesitation in coming to their aid. Ministers need not doubt that the wheat-growers will support them. From such a scheme the wheatgrowers would derive untold benefits, because it would mean cheaper and more efficient handling, and the avoidance, of those tremendous losses that occur .each year through rain, inferior bags, and other factors. I ask the Government to meet the wishes of the great majority of the wheat producers by creating a universal pool instead of leaving this matter to the discretion of the states, some of which will have a compulsory pool, others a voluntary pool, and some no pool at all. The only effective way of handling a great national asset like the wheat harvest of the Commonwealth is the establishment of one controlling and marketing organization for the whole Commonwealth.
, - The matter upon which the honorable member has touched requires exhaustive examination. Unfortunately, he omitted from his speech reference to a great number of important considerations. For example, he said nothing about the power of the Commonwealth to gather compulsorily all the wheat of the Commonwealth into one pool. He has dealt with the matter as if the Commonwealth could to-morrow establish a compulsory wheat pool, but as a matter of fact it cannot do so. Whilst the Commonwealth Government had great and extraordinary powers during the war, upon the cessation of hostilities many of those powers lapsed. To-day, the Federal Government has constitutional authority to deal with the export trade, but the regulation of the internal trade in each state is within the jurisdiction of that state. The Commonwealth cannot compulsorily assume control of the wheat to be sold for consumption in the home market, and the honorable member should have paid some attention to that fact. We all recognize that the methods of carrying on trade and industry are altering considerably under post-war conditions, and we must give serious thought to the best means of coping with the altered circumstances. The Government has given very clear indications during the last two years that it recognizes that’ change, and it has by many actions shown that it is quite pre1 pared to assist the industries of Australia to organize and improve their marketing methods. Our aim must be to try to ensure to the producer a better return, whilst at the same time safeguarding the interests of the consumer, and the Commonwealth Government has shown that it is ready to assist the states to bring about that improvement. Unfortunately there is too often a tendency to approach these problems from the point of view of either the producer or the consumer, and to disregard the fact that the interest of every class must be conserved if the country is to be prosperous and advance. The honorable member for Wannon (Mr. McNeill) asks that the wheat industry should be organized on a nation-wide basis. I remind him that he is saying something extraordinarily like what I said to the wheat-growers. Recently the Commonwealth Government was approached by representatives of the various wheat-growing states with a request that it should co-operate in giving a guarantee to the contemplated pools. I replied that when in Great Britain I had seen a good deal of the operations of the wheat pools, and the Commonwealth Government could not even consider a proposal to render assistance to the wheat-growing states if they were determined to have separate pools. I quoted to them this statement, which was made to me by a wheat operator in the Baltic, “It certainly suits us; but it passes our comprehension why, when the wheat-growers in Australia are organized, we operators are in a position to set one organization against the other in our operations on. the Baltic.” That state of affairs was due to the fact that there was not one selling agency for all these organizations, and I told the representatives of the states that the Commonwealth would consider the giving of assistance in the formation of a pool only upon the understanding that all states joined in the one organization, with a common chartering agency, and one selling agency. The honorable member will recognize that the suggestions he has made to the committee to-day have been already discussed by me with the representatives of the wheat-growers. He has urged that the pool should be compulsory, and on a nation-wide basis. If he suggests that all the states interested could be induced to agree to one compulsory pool, he has little knowledge of the true position. I have had the privilege of travelling recently in all the states, and I know what their feeling is. The Western Australian farmers do not believe that a compulsory wheat pool would be beneficial; they prefer organization upon a voluntary basis. The same view is held in South Australia, and I have little doubt that a referendum of the farmers in New South Wales would show that they hold a similar opinion. Therefore, there is no possibility of bringing about one of the fundamental features of the honorable member’s proposal, because all the states would not agree to it, and the Commonwealth Government, even if it so desired, has no power to impose such a scheme upon them against their wishes. Does the honorable member suggest that the Commonwealth Government should endeavour to bludgeon the states into a compulsory pool, and that the producers should not be consulted? Is the Government to say to the wheat farmers, “A compulsory pool would be for your good, and, regardless of your own desires, you must submit to it”?
– My amendment proposes negotiation.
– It would be impossible for the Commonwealth Government to adopt a dictatorial attitude, and there is clear and unmistakable evidence that the farmers in all states would not agree to a mere suggestion that a compulsory pool should be established. But let us take it a little further, and consider whether the proposal is likely to be to the advantage of the farmer ; whether, in fact, it is workable, and whether the farmer, with all the facts before him, would be prepared to accept it. The first and fundamental consideration which. I am afraid, the honorable gentleman has completely ignored, is what should be the authority controlling the compulsory pool. Who would constitute that authority? How is it proposed to determine the basis upon which wheat shall be sold in Australia and to fix the price? I noticed that during the recent New South Wales electoral campaign, the Leader of the Labour party in that State (Mr. Lang), made certain suggestions, and talked about a conference of farmers. Does any one suggest that we could provide by legislation for the compulsory acquisition of the whole of the wheat produced in Australia, and then allow the owners of it to fix the basis upon which it should be sold in Australia? Such a proposal is unthinkable. There is another class in the community - the consumer - which must also be considered. We could not legislate for the control of the most vital requirement of the people, and allow those interested in securing a high price for it to determine the basis on which it should be sold here. The proposal of the honorable member for Wannon is designed to give the producers complete control of their wheat, but if that were done the honorable member himself, or, at all events, very many of his colleagues would soon raise a determined outcry against the continuance of the arrangement. The- honorable gentleman may propound to his constituents a scheme for giving the producers complete control of the price of their wheat, but if he made such a proposal to, say, the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr. E. Riley), the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Scullin), or the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan), the solidarity of his party, which is now so distinguishing a characteristic of it, would be seriously jeopardized. I could not mislead the farmers of Australia by agreeing to any such proposal. I do not represent any particular section of the community; my duty is to safeguard the interests of the people as a whole. This is not the first occasion upon which I have taken this stand and maintained it against considerable opposition. Proposals were made last year to allow those engaged in the dairying industry to control prices in the Australian market. I declined to agree to anything of the sort. I am quite satisfied that the majority of honorable members agree with me that in these matters all interests must be considered. If honorable members opposite are telling farmers that Parliament is prepared to establish a compulsory wheat pool, and to allow the representatives of the industry to control it and lay down the price at which the wheat shall be sold here, those people are being grossly and grievously misled. Honorable gentlemen opposite know that they could not do anything of the sort; they know it as well as I do. I have show that it is impossible for the Commonwealth compulsorily to # acquire the whole of the wheat produced in Australia and to allow the growers to determine its price, without any safeguard being provided for the consumers. An alternative is for the Government to determine the price at which wheat shall be sold; but, if such a proposition were made to the farmers in Australia, they would look at it askance. They know that the consumers constitute the vast majority of the population, that there are far more consumers than wheat producers, and that there is a tendency on the part of parliaments to legislate on lines most acceptable to the greatest number.
– Wheat was held up here - the men on the wharf would not load it - at one period during the war, and the price came down.
– One could recall .many instances of control leading to a reduction in prices. Most honorable members will recollect that a former Minister for Trade and Customs, the late Mr. Tudor, on one occasion prohibited the exportation of butter in the interests of the Australian consumer. That incident, as well as others which could be mentioned, should be a reminder to producers that for the Government to control the prices of primary products is extremely dangerous. A third alternative is that there should be some body appointed whose duty it would be to reconcile the interests of the producer and the consumer, so as to ensure absolutely fair play. Here, again, certain objections must be faced. Suppose there was a great shortage of wheat throughout the world “with a consequent rise in prices, and the price of wheat overseas was 9s. a bushel, would our consumers be content that the price in the Australian market should be world’s parity less freight and other costs? The consumers, whilst favouring a fair deal for the wheat-grower, would object to paying an ., exceedingly high price for their foodstuffs. In view of all the circumstances, it would be difficult to reach agreement on this very important question.
– What is there to prevent present values for wheat in Australia being the rate at which it .should be sold here?
– I shall come to that point in a moment. In the circumstances I have just mentioned, the producer would take the stand that he was entitled to world’s parity, but the local consumer would argue that the farmer was entitled only to a reasonable price, taking into account the cost of production, and sale. . Similar difficulties would be encountered if the world’s parity fell appreciably. Thus we are forced to the conclusion that in any wheat pool scheme to eliminate these market fluctuations due, on the one hand, to scarcity, or, on the other, to over-production, it would be necessary to determine what was a fair average price to pay the farmer, and you would have to take as your basis for a stabilized price the cost of production. The honorable member for Wimmera suggests that today’s prices should be accepted. That is not possible.
– I was not advocating present prices. I merely asked what was to prevent to-day’s prices from being accepted. I believe in a stabilized price.
– If to-day’s prices were taken as a basis, the consumer would immediately object, because he would not be satisfied that they represented only a fair and reasonable return to the producer. In his opinion they might be too high, and he might demand an examination of the whole position. In any consideration of this problem, we are inevitably brought back to the view that the basis of price is the cost of production, plus a reasonable margin of profit. But how is the cost of production to be determined? Are we to accept the cost incurred by a farmer whose methods are inefficient, and whose land was bought at too high a price, and make allowance for smallness of yield owing to scanty rainfall? Or are we to consider the returns obtained by a producer employing the most efficient methods and working under the most favorable conditions ?
– Does the Prime Minister suggest that the basis be fixed over a period of years?
– Obviously the price should be that which will give a man in any particular district a living. If we adopted as a basis for fixing the price either the return to a man using the most efficient methods or that to the man employing inefficient methods, we should arrive at an impossible position, and many farmers would be driven out of the industry. All these matters have to be taken into consideration. A fundamental difficulty is that, at the present moment, the states primarily concerned are not prepared to accept a scheme such as has been outlined by the honorable member for Wannon. The Commonwealth has control of exportation, but we could not give effect to the proposal within Australia. If the honorable member has put forward his scheme for discussion, it may serve a useful purpose, but as a definite proposal, by which the farmers may create a new world for themselves, it is misleading to them, and cannot lead us anywhere because of its obvious difficulties. I entirely subscribe to the view that it is vital that we should get rid of unnecessary middlemen, and prevent inordinate charges for services rendered, because these appreciably increase .the cost of production and retard progress. The fundamental difficulty in the way of the honorable member’s proposal is, I submit, that if we are to have legislation under which control of the whole of the produce of the people of this country - and particularly the control of vital commodities - is to be taken by the Government, we cannot stop there. We must take a second step. In such circumstances, it would be necessary to have price fixing, and we know the difficulties which such action would involve. We have, further, to recognize that if we accept that principle in relation to one industry we must accept it in respect of others. We could not have privileged industries receiving special treatment. There is another phase of the question with which I should like to deal. In Australia we have two classes of trade - our overseas trade and the trade which we do in our own home market. We have to consider new and very difficult problems that are arising in Australia to-day because of local conditions which, prevail as a result of the policy deliberately adopted by the people. Under a policy of protection applied to both primary and secondary industries, we have gradually built up a number of our industries to a point at which the production exceeds local requirements, and we now have an expanding surplus that has to be disposed of in the markets of the world. When we had only to dispose of our products in our own market, or to place’ only a small surplus on the overseas markets, we were not confronted with grave difficulties, .because, with our standard of living and the comparatively high wages paid, the purchasing power of the community allowed our productions to be absorbed here at remunerative rates to those producing them. But, as soon as we have, in consequence of an increasing and ever-expanding production, to seek a market overseas, and dispose of our surplus in competition with, all other countries, we are faced with new and very difficult problems. Recently, when speaking on this subject on behalf of the Government, I frankly admitted that we recognized this to be a problem with which we had to grapple. I indicated that if we were prepared to render a measure of assistance to our producers who had to seek their market within Australia, we must be prepared also to render an equivalent measure of assistance to those who had to seek their market outside, in competition with the producers of other countries. I said that we must give them an opportunity to compete on just and equitable terms, since part of the burden which had increased the cost of production was unquestionably due to the national policy of Australia - the policy of Protection, plus the high standard of living to which we all subscribe, and which we are determined to maintain. We have to face that position. But that does not mean that any industry which finds itself faced with little difficulties in marketing its products overseas shall immediately be entitled to come to the Government and ask for a bonus, or assistance in some other form. We cannot proceed to deal in that way with every industry that can show that it is in trouble. We must have consideration for the whole of the people. If an industry is inefficiently conducted, or is marketing its produce overseas in a way which prevents it from obtaining the full return that it would otherwise secure,, it is not the duty of the country to makegood the difference. It is for those engaged in the industry to put their own house in order. They are entitled to assistance only when these factors have been: eliminated, and the industry has been soorganized that it can obtain the fullest, possible price for its produce in the overseas market. When in Great Britain last year, I went very closely into our marketing methods. I discovered that, without doubt, certain factors in connexion withthe handling of our produce were handicapping our producers and preventing them from obtaining the fullest returnfor the commodities they were sending; overseas. Chief among these was the loss, of identity of Australian production ; so> that we did not get the advantage of the* sentiment towards the Dominions which’, is increasingly evident in Great Britain,, nor did we get the advantage of an established continuous market wherethe excellence of our produce would5, be its own recommendation. Next to loss of identity was the irregularity of supplies. We were sending into the British market, at certain periods in the year, a tremendous quantity of produce. Then followed an interval of some months, during which supplies from Australia were either noi? forthcoming, or not sufficiently large to> satisfy the market. In these circumstances, we were not obtaining the full’ advantages of the market we had created? for ourselves. We established a market, and just as we had created a demand, supplies ceased, and there was nothing with which to carry on. By the time that fresh supplies were forthcoming, the Australian article had been practically forgotten. Another disadvantage was that our produce went through too many hands. Australian, producers were competing: against themselves, with most unfavorable results. Where, for example, produce had been consigned and advances made against it, whenever the market looked at all uncertain, those who had made the advanceshastened to get out. So long as they could see the possibility of getting their own. money back, they had no regard for the disadvantages that accrued to the Australian producer as the result of such action. Then there is difficulty associated with the financing of the small producer, which leads me to the point stressed by the honorable member for “Wannon (Mr. McNeill), namely, the necessity for cooperation. Finance and co-operation are necessary for our producers if they are to obtain better returns for produce marketed overseas, because it is only .by these means that they can keep control over it for a longer period. The overseas market is one in regard to which the Commonwealth Government has a responsibility, and it has some authority, whereas it has none in the home market. With these facts in mind Ministers have faced the situation, and have done a great deal to improve the position of the Australian “producer in the market, which is our direct responsibility. Last session we brought down measures dealing primarily with the dried fruit industry and the dairy produce industry. Had we not done this the dried fruit industry would have fallen on evil days, a large number of men who had been assisted to go on the land would have been compelled to surrender their holdings, production would have seriously diminished, and a very serious problem would have been created. “Under the Dried Fruits Advances Bill the Government took over the financing of that industry for six months in order >that the financial crisis which seemed imminent might be overcome, and so that there might be a prospect of the industry meeting its difficulties. I remind the House of this because honorable members opposite seem to think that the Government has done nothing for the solution of this problem. The Government is always prepared to take action, but only when such action will benefit an industry and will not undermine initiative and enterprise on the part of the people. The Dried Fruits Control Bill and the Dairy Produce Export Bill were very much alike, but the “boards appointed under them differed somewhat in constitution. These measures were framed to enable the industries, as far as the overseas market was concerned, to be in a better position, and to organize to bring about the better handling and marketing of their products. They, together with a guarantee bill which was passed, gave each industry control of its export trade. I have referred to the duplication in handling arrangements on the other side, and the competition between Australian sellers on the London market. The measures also provided for necessary advances, so that the smaller growers would not be forced to accept low prices to meet the demands of those who had been carrying them since the previous harvest. As a result of these measures I am confident we shall have a complete reversal of the position which previously existed in . Great Britain - indeed, an improvement in the methods of marketing Australian dried fruit and butter can already be seen. In the past New Zealand butter . has always brought 10s. a cwt. more than Australian butter on the British market, but during the last few months Australian butter has been realizing more than the New Zealand product. There has also been a tremendous advance in the methods of marketing dried fruits. The way in which the present season is opening is largely due to the better basis upon which the marketing has been placed. The Government has taken very definite steps in the sphere in which the Commonwealth has authority and responsibility, and is achieving the objective which we all desire. The other phase of the question relating to efficiency falls more directly within the province of the states. The Commonwealth Government has made it clear to all the states that it regards efficiency in industry as of vital importance, and that it is prepared to co-operate with them in any proposal which it believes will tend to improve efficiency and generally to improve production. But we are prepared to give assistance only where it is necessary ; it is not our function to give assistance to industries that do not require it. We are inclined sometimes to lay too much stress on the difficulties with which we are faced. We speak of the disadvantage of being at a great distance from the markets of the world. I agree that it is a great disadvantage; but we must remember certain compensating advantages. In Australia we have a climate which is infinitely better than that of other countries with which we have to compete. The fertility of our soil as a whole is as great as that of any other country, and in certain parts incomparably better. We have also great advantages in the suitability of our country for certain products. Many other advantages are enjoyed by our different industries, and we should not forget that they assist us in bearing what is unquestionably a burden upon our export industry - tlie standard of living that we insist upon iri Australia, and the protection we afford to our secondary industries. Keeping these facts in mind, the Government is prepared to extend to industries which have their overseas markets properly organized, and are efficient in their methods of production, a measure of assistance commensurate with that given to industries which supply markets in Australia. I have tried to show what the Government has done in the sphere where it has direct authority, and I suggest that it would be advisable for the State Governments to concentrate upon this problem in the spheres in which they have direct responsibility. The Commonwealth Government has approached the problem of organizing oversea markets with a view to eliminating unnecessary channels of distribution, and so organizing the marketing of our produce that the largest possible return will be received by the producer.
– The trouble is that the State Governments are endeavouring to shuffle their responsibilities on to the Commonwealth.
– And the Commonwealth refuses to take any responsibility.
– When discussing a problem that is probably one of the most important with which this country is faced to-day, it ill becomes any of us to say that the Commonwealth or the states are shuffling their obligations on to one another. It is time that we all recognized that we must grapple with these problems and set ourselves determinedly to solve them. In the sphere in which the Commonwealth has direct control and responsibility, it has consistently followed the policy of trying to remove difficulties, improve methods, and get rid of the waste that is unquestionably occurring in the distribution of our products. The problem of our home market should be approached from the same angle, and all the states should set themselves determinedly to do something to lessen the cost of distribution, to the advantage both of the purchaser and the consumer. I want to make the policy of the Government perfectly clear to the House, so that there will be no possibility of misunderstanding. The Commonwealth Government is. not prepared to take over the control of industries, and to interfere with those whose legitimate function it is to control them. But it is prepared to render a measure of assistance to those who are willing to put their own house in order, by organizing their industries, and trying reintroduce the best possible methods of production and marketing. The Ministry, also, does not believe that any government should attempt to take complete control of industries, and to substitute new’ methods of handling and distribution for the machinery which has been, built up over a long period of years and has unquestionably, as the result of experience during that period, acquired qualities that we could not replace, if we attempted to displace it. We have to make the existing channels of distribution the servants of the community as a whole. We have to take advantage of the experience that has been gained, and of the machinery that has been built up. I agree that we have to obliterate unnecessary channels, and we have to make sure that the useful channels that must exist take only a fair return for the services rendered.. But I do not wish to leave any impression, on the minds of honorable members that I subscribe to the view, which apparently is held by honorable members opposite, that we should demolish the whole of our existing machinery, and that the Government should take over the control of industries and endeavour to distribute the whole of our produce. That could not be done, and any attempt to do it would increase the cost of distribution and bring disaster upon every section of the community. I also wish to make it clear that the Government stands for the principle of leaving to the individual the fullest possible measure of freedom. It does not wish to take any action that might undermine the initiative, the selfrespect, or the enterprise of the individual, for to do so would be fatal to the progress of Australia. That is where the Government parts company with honorable members opposite. We all recognize that in these times we must make progress in all our methods; that we must not stagnate, and that we must get rid of any lingering conservative idea that what is must remain. “We have to improve our methods, hut I refuse to be a party to the proposal of the Opposition that we should take control of industry, interfere with the individual and undermine his initiative and enterprise. All we can do with advantage is to help those who are prepared to help themselves. A useful discussion can take place on the question that has been raised by the honorable member for Wannon. I regret that he did not deal with the subject in greater detail, and show the difficulties associated with carrying out his proposals. Had he done so, he would have given honorable members an opportunity to express opinions on the questions involved.
– I have listened to the Prime Minister very attentively. He accused the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. McNeill) of leaving many things unsaid. The same charge could, with full truth, bo levelled against the Prime Minister. He spoke of many things, and talked all round the subject without actually coming to the amendment moved by the honorable member. I remind him that the amendment asks the Government to take immediate steps to establish a compulsory wheat pool, and to enter into negotiations with the respective State Governments for that purpose. The Prime Minister doubts whether the Commonwealth Government has the legal power. I have heard quite a lot about that lately, and we know that certain people have come into office who refuse to stand up to the principles on which they were elected. In Victoria there is a Premier who, before he was Premier, had as the principal plank in his platform the creation of a compulsory wheat pool. He even caused a dissolution on the subject, and the people of this state, especially the farming section of the community, returned him on the understanding that he would work to bring about a compulsory pool. Yet when this gentleman got on to the Treasury bench he saw legal obstacles, and has failed to give effect to the principles on which he was elected.
– That is another example of the irresponsibility of men in Opposition.
– It is another example of a man running away from the principles on which he was elected. We have had many similar examples in this House. It is interesting to know what the Premier of Victoria thinks the Prime Minister of Australia should do. The Prime Minister says he has no responsibility, and that it is a state matter, but the State Government says that it is a federal matter. The two Governments shift on this question as they shift on the unemployment question. The Prime Minister says that unemployment has nothing to do with the Commonwealth, and the State Government says that it is a federal matter, with the result that people are walking the streets looking for work. I should like the Prime Minister to know what Mr. Allan, the Premier of Victoria and Leader of the Country party in this state, thinks about this matter. He obtained the advice of two legal luminaries, and they provided him with a letter, in which it was stated that the State Government had not the power to establish a compulsory pool, notwithstanding that another eminent legal authority declared that there was ample power. The Countryman, the official organ of the Country party in Victoria, in an article based upon the advice of these two lawyers, said -
Mr. Allan has, however, a duty to perform - there is no reason why he should not exercise it immediately - and that is to refer the request of the wheat-growers of Victoria to the Prime Minister (Mr. Bruce) for action to he taken by the Commonwealth Government.
It is well for those honorable members who sit in the Ministerial corner, and who accept this journal as the official organ of their . party, to know what it expects of them in connexion with the amendment now before the Committee. The Prime Minister has said that the Government cannot give effect to the amendment because it has not the power to do something that involves a number of states, and that after travelling through Australia he has grave doubts whether the wheat-growers desire a compulsory pool. Let us consider the opinion of the wheat-growers as far as we know it. In Victoria not long ago a vote was taken of the wheat-growers, and by nearly 13,000 to 1,000 votes they declared in favour of a compulsory wheat pool.
– How many did not vote?
– The honorable member is never caught without an excuse. He wishes to know the opinions of those who did not vote. Those who voted were those who were most interested. I suppose many people in my honorable friend’s electorate did not vote at the last election. But does he say that they were opposed to him? If they were he should walk out of this House, since it is clear, then, that he represents a minority. He claims to reflect the views of .the people of his electorate, but I suppose “he does not take into account those who remained away and did not take the trouble to vote. Those who voted on the question of a compulsory wheat pool voted twelve to one in favour of it.
– - Let the honorable member try his little dodges on some one else.
– Evidently the honorable member has not come off very well as the result of his interjection. The Prime Minister said that during the war the wheat pool served its purpose, and that, although we were then able to assume certain powers, now the war was over there were difficulties in the way. I would point out to him that after the war the New South Wales Labour Government established ‘a compulsory pool, which did effective and splendid work in the interests of the wheat-growers. There would be no difficulty in establishing a pool in New South Wales or Victoria, and if those states - the two .great wheatproducing states of the Commonwealth - asked for a compulsory pool, the other states .could not afford to remain outside.
– Was there not a difficulty in New South Wales in receiving payment for wheat?
– No.
– There was a compulsory pool in Western Australia.
– Yes. The Prime Minister also said that he recently travelled all over Australia, and from what he had seen and heard he believed that the wheat-growers were not in favour of a compulsory pool. Anybody in this House can make use of such a statement. It depends upon the class of men that the Prime Minister met. I ven ture to say that in his travels he came i-i contact more with the speculating element than with the producing element. I feel certain that if a vote of the New South Wales Wheat-producers were taken, there would be a verdict in favour of a compulsory wheat pool.
– I am one of them, and I say that the honorable member .is wrong.
– The honorable member would say the opposite if it suited his book better. My electorate adjoins his, and I represent much the same class of people. I firmly believe that a majority of them favour a compulsory pool to enable them to cut out the middleman and the speculator, and to obtain the full result of their labours. In pre-war days the price of wheat in the open market was from 2s. 6d. to 3s. a bushel. When the first wheat pool was established in 1916, the price realized through the pool was about 5s. a bushel. Ths second pool realized over 5s. a bushel. If the wheat pool during the war saved the position for the wheatgrowers, surely it should work as satisfactorily in time of peace. No honorable member can deny that the price of wheat was higher under control than it waa when there was no control.
– Even before the war wheat prices in a period of nine months jumped from 3s. to 4s. 6d. a bushel.
– I have known wheat prices to be as low as 2s. 6d. a bushel. The honorable member for Wakefield well knows that the man who grows wheat very often had to accept 2s. 6d. a bushel, ,and that the speculator purchased the wheat and disposed of it later at 4s. a bushel. That happened in many cases. The great argument for a pool is the elimination of the speculator. Without a pool, .the poor grower is forced to sell to the ‘ wealthy speculator -who is able to hold the wheat and wait for an improved market.
– To-day the wealthy grower who has held his wheat is faced with a falling market.
– No doubt the wheat-growers in the honorable member’s electorate will be pleased to hear his views on .this subject.
– They know my views.
– The farming community will also want to know the views of quite a number of honorable gentlemen in this chamber. There are many one-time supporters of a compulsory pool among the Government’s followers. In the past the PostmasterGeneral (Mr. Gibson) and the Minister for Works and Railways (Mr. Hill) were enthusiastic supporters of the establishment of a compulsory wheat pool, to prevent the producer from being fleeced by the middleman and speculator, and the wheat-growers will be watching their attitude .when the vote is taken on this amendment. The Prime Minister took the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. McNeill) to task for his temerity in daring to express the opinion that the wheat farmer should be allowed to control his own products. We expect that sentiment from the Prime Minister. The interests he represents desire that the wheat-grower and every other person shall remain at their mercy. The Collins-street and Flinders-lane farmers, those gentlemen who farm the farmers, will endorse every word spoken by the Prime Minister to-day, and we can expect nothing else from them. But there are other members of his Government, such as the Minister for Works and Railways, the Postmaster-General, and the Treasurer, from whom we expect a different attitude.
– Is the honorable member speaking for the organized farmers of Australia ?
– I wish to know whether the honorable member agrees with the words that I quoted from the official organ of the Country party. Is he prepared to say that his own party’s official newspaper does not know what it is writing about? That newspaper told the Prime Minister that he had a clear duty to perform. In effect the farmers of Victoria said, “ We must have a compulsory pool; Mr.’ Allan, the state Premier, although pledged to support a wheat pool,, will not give it to us; we want the Prime Minister, the Minister for Works and Railways, the Treasurer, and the PostmasterGeneral to assist us to establish a compulsory pool.” The Minister for Works and Railways will have to make out his case in his own way, but if he fails to support this amendment it will be the biggest reversion of form that I know of. If the honorable member stands behind the Prime Minister and refuses the farmers a compulsory pool, it will be a contradiction of everything, that he has stood for throughout his political life. The honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) is in the same position: If he votes -with the Government he betrays his constituents. The Prime Minister, in effect, said that the farmers in this country should not be trusted to control their own products because they would fleece the consumers. Honorable members know that when wheat was selling at 4s. a bushel bread was no cheaper than it was when wheat was selling at 5s. and 5s. 6d. a bushel. The Prime Minister knows well that the price of bread has increased, not because of what the farmer gets for his wheat, but because of the manipulations of the speculators and the middlemen, who stand between the producer and the consumer. The honorable member for Forrest and other Country party members must vote either for or against the amendment. If they take the side of the producers) they will vote for the amendment; but if they stand for the middlemen, let them vote for their new-found friends. The way in which they vote will determine their attitude on this question, and by that vote they will be judged. The Govern. ment should arrange for the various Governments - State and Federal - to meet together in conference to see whether arrangements for a compulsory wheat pool in the interests of the wheat producers of Australia can be made; but the Prime Minister said that he would do nothing of the kind. He stated that his Government had helped only those who needed assistance. I have recollections of a bill which was introduced in this House during the present administration, the object of which was to remit £2,250,000 taxation payable by some wealthy people in this country who were eight years in arrear with their payments. By no stretch of the imagination could it be said that those people needed assistance, yet the Government was prepared to step in and relieve its wealthy friends of their just obligations, while help is refused to the deserving wheat-producers of this country. In 1923-4, when there was a wheat pool in Victoria, those who sold their wheat through the pool obtained 4s. 9£d. a bushel, while those who remained outside the pool obtained 4s. 4d. per bushel, and, in some cases, as low as 3s. lOd. per bushel. The results were much the same in connexion with the 1921-22 pool. In the two wheat pools in Victoria, those who sold their wheat through the pools obtained, in the one case, 5d. per bushel, and in the other, 3½d. a bushel, more than those who sold through other agencies.
– That is a big consideration to a man who has 6,000 or 7,000 bags of wheat to sell.
– That is so. It may make all the difference between remaining on the land and being driven off it. The same principle applies in every calling. Yet the Prime Minister spoke as if it was a crime for the men who grow wheat to join hands in their own interests. Oan any one point to a closer association than is observed by those very interests which the right honorable gentleman represents - the interests of Flinderslane? Even in the case of a necessary commodity, those interests combine and fix one price. The principle that unity is strength is recognized throughout the world. It is a principle accepted by the Prime Minister when it favours those with whom he is associated. If he considers it right in the case of those interests, why should it be wrong in the case of the wheat-growers? They also should be permitted to unite in mutual defence against those who have never grown a grain of wheat. In conclusion, I point out that, the great majority of the wheat-growers in this country desire the establishment of a pool, whereas those who exploit the farmer, and have never grown wheat, do not want it. Are we to serve the interests of the man who grows the wheat,” or those who prey on him?
– The honorable member’s time has expired.
. - In a speech which occupied a long time, but contained very little, the Prime Minister raised several objections to the proposal of the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. McNeill). He referred to the pool that was established by the right honorable member for North Sydney (Mr. W. M. Hughes) during the war period, and which was commended by every far mer in Australia. .Without it the farmers of Australia would have been ruined, but because of the establishment of the pool they enjoyed fair prosperity, even in wartime. The Prime Minister’s objection to a compulsory wheat pool reminds me of an incident that occurred in a town in Prussia in the time of Frederick the Great. At the entrance to the town, Frederick the Great was met by some of the leading citizens, or burghers, who proceeded to explain that there were fourteen reasons for their inability to accord him the customary welcome to royalty. They pointed out that they were well aware that on such occasions it was usual for the town bells to be rung, and explained, as their first reason, that that could not be done, because the town possessed no bell. Frederick the Great assured them that that one reason was so convincing that there was no necessity for the other thirteen to be mentioned. The Prime Minister said that the’ Government could not establish” a wheat pool because the Commonwealth did not possess the power to do so. If that were so, why did he waste time in detailing the other reasons that he advanced ? If he had been anxious to assist the farmers he could have found a way to do so. He could have told the Premiers of the several states that, because of the way in which the speculators play one state against another when there are separate state pools a Commonwealth wheat pool was desirable; and seeing that five of the six Premiers of the Australian states belong to a great democratic movement which stands for assisting the producers, he would have experienced no difficulty in connexion with such a proposal. Queensland, New South Wales, South Australia, and Western Australia have each had wheat pools. When I was a farmer in a very small way in Western Australia, I received 2s. 4d. per bushel for my wheat. After deducting the cost of cartage to the railway station, the £300 that I had saved after many years soon disappeared, and I was forced to give up the farm. Subsequently a Commonwealth wheat pool was established, and because of that the man who obtained my farm for nothing is now a man in a strong financial position.
– Did the honorable member pool his wheat last year?
– Yes; with theWestralia Farmers Limited.
– I am glad to hear that.
– In Western Australia to-day a voluntary wheat pool is in operation, although some of the most advanced among us believe that there should be a compulsory pool. I have good reasons for believing that the honorable member for Forrest (Mr. Prowse) believes in a compulsory wheat pool, but to admit it in this chamber would place him in an awkward position with his leader, who stands for the interests of big business. The Prime Minister told us this afternoon that his Government does not stand for anything which would do away with certain middlemen, because of their great experience. Stripped bare, what does that statement mean ? It means that there is no desire on the part of the Government to interfere with such firms as John Darling and Company, and Dalgety and Company, who have robbed the farmers of thousands of pounds. In Western Australia the Westralia Farmers Limited, which is a co-operative concern, deals with the bulk of the wheat of that state. It invited the farmers to put their wheat into a voluntary pool, and as I have told the Postmaster-General I put what wheat I had this year into it. Some wheat-growers who have dealt with private buyers have in some instances received more than they would have received for their wheat if they had put it into the pool, but I have no doubt that finally the majority of the wheat-growers of Western Australia who did not join the voluntary pool will lose money because the big buyers are merely speculators, and are not in business to help the farmer. Even if I thought that by doing so the wheat-grower would receive a little less for his wheat I should advise him to join a wheat pool. So long as we have a voluntary pool and operations carried on at the same time by private speculators, the pool must be to some extent ineffective. To be fully effective it must be a compulsory pool. The Prime Minister took it upon himself to say that the Western Australian wheat-growers do not approve of a compulsory wheat pool. When he recently visited Western Australia the right honorable gentleman went rapidly over a portion of the state, most of which did not include farming districts. There are two farming districts - two state divisions - in my electorate, and as I recently spent three months inthose districts I am more closely in touch with the farmers of Western Australia than is the Prime Minister. Even if the farmers there were against a compulsory wheat pool I am satisfied that I could go there and successfully advocate the establishment of a. compulsory pool because of the advantages which would accrue from it.. The Prime Minister has said that therewould be difficulty about arranging theprice to be paid for wheat by theconsumers, but there need be no difficulty about that. He would not leave it to the farmers or to the consumers;., but he would call in the advice of” experts, of whom there are hundreds to be - found in every wheat-growing district of the Commonwealth. Their probity audi! integrity could be depended upon, and with their advice it would not be difficult to fix a price which would be fair to producer and consumer alike. The establishment of a compulsory pool would result in the wheat-farmer getting all that he is entitled to, and more than he can expect to receive under existing topsyturvy conditions. Western Australia is particularly interested in the establishment of a wheat pool. It is coming rapidly to the fore as a wheat-producing state, as the volume of its gold production is becoming less, which is largely due to the fact that its gold was commandeered during the war, but I shall not deal further with that matter now. The area under wheat in Western Australia has increased since 1919-20 by 80 per cent., and the yield in that state as the result of the adoption of better farming methods has increased by 90 per cent. The average yield in Australia for 1&19”- 22 was 12.73 bushels to the acre, which is higher than the average yield in very* much boomed Canada, where it was 12.66; bushels per acre. During the period mentioned our average yield was very little1 below that of the United States of America, which is the greatest wheatproducing country in the world. It is, essential in the interests of the wheat producers of Australia that a compulsorypool should be established, and I should like to know how it is that we find the joint partners with the Prime Minister in this composite Government so lukewarm on this question. How is it they; take apparently so little interest in this debate, and none of them rose to second the proposal of the honorable member for “Wannon? They find themselves obliged to sacrifice the interests of those who sent them here in. order to suit the wishes of the faction led by the Prime Minister. The two factions composing the present Ministerial party are continually clashing. That has been evident to honorable members for a considerable time. There have been faction fights between them, aird it takes them all their time to remain together, and to retain the support of their followers in Western- Australia and throughout the Commonwealth. This is true of their supporters in Western Australia, despite the sacrifice of one very noble senator from that state, made in. the sacrificial spirit which, inspires men when they see no chance of reelection. In spite of this,, men are coming into the arena who have a chance of election regardless of the efforts of the sections represented by the Government. The reason for this is that the farmers, whose interests should be looked after in this chamber as well as those of the workers and importers, are not represented by men who are untied. The honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Stewart) and the Treasurer (Dr. Earle Page) know that a compulsory wheat pool is essential for Australia, and would enable wheat-farmers to obtain more for their wheat than they would otherwise be able to get, but in spite of this the amendment submitted by the honorable member for Wannon is opposed by honorable members opposite because the Prime Minister tells members of the Country party, “ You. must give way a little on this matter. We are doing a good deal for the producers of dried fruits and other producers, and your people must learn to give and take.” The honorable member for Wannon advocates a compulsory wheat pool in the best interests of the farmers, and I, as a Labour member, support him. I understand that the Treasurer, at a meeting of the farmers of Western Australia recently, suggested that some one should be obtained to stand, against myself. Up to date they have not secured an opponent for me. The farmers in that electorate will vote for me, and they will be more certain to do so when I am able to tell them what happened in this chamber this afternoon. That will drive another nail into the coffin of the Treasurer’s hopes in that direction. I shall be able to tell them that on the 19th June, 1925, I stood wilh other Labour members in this chamber advocating the establishment of a compulsory wheat pool ; that it was opposed by the Prime Minister, who represents the interests of Flinders-lan ; and that the Treasurer, who is leader of the Country party, had nothing to say in favour of it. If he favoured the proposal, members of his party could bring pressure to bear upon the Government. It could get into touch with the Premiers of the different states, and steps could’ be taken to form a compulsory pool. I hope that the Government will yet see the wisdom of accepting the suggestion of the honorable member for Wannon, and if it does, I shall be ready to give it credit for doing something in the interests of the farmers. Progress reported.
page 298
European Security Pact. - Reduction of CABLE Rates. - Postage Stamp Licences.
– I move -
That the House do now adjourn.
In submitting the motion, I desire to refer to two questions which were on the notices-paper to-day, one in the name of the Leader of the. Opposition (Mr. Charlton), and one in the name of the honorable member for Perth (Mr. Mann). I asked that those questions should be postponed, as I hoped at a later hour of the day to be in a position to make a somewhat f uller answer to them than I could have given when questions on notice were being replied to. I regret that I cannot make as full an answer as I anticipated I would be able to do. I intimated this morning that I thought publication would have been given last night to certain notes, and that they would have got through to Australia by to-day. Unfortunately, they have not yet come through, and I must curtail what I contemplated saying, this- afternoon’ regarding the position which has been reached in connexion with the- negotiations between Germany on. one side and Great Britain, France, and Belgium- on the other.
Early this year the problem of European security assumed a new phase by the desire that was expressed by the German Government to co-operate actively in establishing more stable political conditions in Europe. It wasat once obvious that any such scheme into which Germany would voluntarily enter had certain advantages over previous proposals. The German Government) first made its suggestions tentatively to the British Government; and then, on the 9th February, communicated very similar suggestions to the French Government. These proposals were couched in vague terms, and were intended to be merely a basis of discussion. Their substance was that Germany agreed to regard her present frontiers with Belgium and France as definitive, thus consenting voluntarily to what she had formerly accepted under duress in the Peace Treaty on the morrow of her defeat. Germany expressed herself willing to submit all disputes between herself and her neighbours to cither arbitration or conciliation. She further undertook not to employ force to modify any of her other frontiers.
Since that date, negotiations have been proceeding between the British and French Governments, with the object of arriving at some common policy in respect to the German proposals and the general question of security. The German offer has been sympathetically considered.
At the present moment, the position is that no treaty or pact has been drawn up, but a preliminary agreement has been reached between the French and British Governments as to the lines that such a treaty could follow. These views are contained in a note that has been sent to the German Government. The basis of the proposed security pact would be arbitration. The arrangement that is contemplated could be a regional agreement for the strengthening of security at the point where the need of security is most strongly felt, the ultimate object of which would be to make a reduction of armaments possible.
No pact or treaty, however, has yet been drafted, and this obviously can only be proceeded with when and if agreement is reached between the German, French, and British Governments. The views of the German Government should shortly be known, when it will be seen whether any security agreement can be reached along the lines that have been proposed.
In the event of any such security agreement being arrived at, it is obvious that it must be in harmony both with the letter and spirit of the Covenant of the League, and concluded under the aegis of the League, and registered with that body.
The present position, therefore, is that Great Britain and France have arrived at an agreement as to the principles upon which they would be prepared to enter into a security pact. This decision by Great Britain has doubtless been arrived at because she considers some such action not only necessary for her own security, but also to remove the suspicions and fears which at the present time constitute a menace to the peace of Europe.
The Commonwealth Government has been kept fully informed of the negotiations which have led up to the present position, but has not been asked to become a party to the proposed pact. In the event of a security pact being entered into, it will be between Great Britain and the other powers concerned, and the question as to whether Australia will adhere to any such agreement will be a matter for determination by the Commonwealth Parliament.
The documents and all the information the Government has received upon this subjectare now being investigated in order to ascertain how far they can be made available to the House.
.- I am pleased to know that reports which have appeared in the press from time to time to the effect that an agreement had been entered into between Great Britain, France, and Germany is not correct, and that no such agreement has so far been arrived at. But what is more gratifying is the promise the Prime Minister has given that before the Commonwealth is committed to any agreement of this nature this House will have an opportunity to discuss it. In view of that assurance, I shall make no further observations upon the matter at this moment.
.- I understand that an agreement was recently signed by the Commonwealth Government for a reduction of cable rates between Great Britain and Australia, but I have since noticed in the press a statement by the Financial Sec- retary to the Treasury in the British House of Commons that this reduction has not yet been agreed to by the British Government. As it is of vital importance to Australia to have cheap communication with the other parts of the Empire, I should like to ascertain from the Prime Ministerwhether he is prepared to urge the Imperial Government to participate in the agreement already sanctioned by the Commonwealth Government.
– I hope that the Government will not insist on carrying out its proposal to deprive people of licences to sell postage stamps. If it does, it will inconvenience, not only many persons who devote a great deal of time to the sale of these stamps, but also the public generally. I have received several communications protesting against the Department’s proposal, and I hope the Government will see the justice of continuing to pay a small commission of 6d. in the £1 on the sale of stamps. The saving of £12,000 a year, which the PostmasterGeneral estimates is likely to be effected, is paltry indeed compared with the service rendered by those who sell stamps to the public.
– In reply to the honorable member for South Sydney (Mr.
Riley) I may say that every consideration will be given to each case in which there is any likelihood of injustice being done to the public by the proposal to cancel licences for the sale of postage stamps. The honorable member can rest assured that the terms will be so liberal that the public will be well served.
– The position in regard to the reduction in the cable rates is that the British Government has agreed to the arrangement sanctioned by the Commonwealth Government. The report which the honorable member for Macquarie saw in the press concerned an additional request for further reductions, which has yet to be considered.
Question resolved in the affirmative.
House adjourned at 4.5 p.m.
Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 19 June 1925, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1925/19250619_reps_9_110/>.