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House of Representatives
23 June 1921

8^th Parliament · 1^st Session

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1921-22
QUESTION
- EXPORTATION OP. AUSTRALIAN FAUNA
QUESTION
- CENSUS AND ELECTORAL RETURNS
QUESTION
- WESTERN AUSTRALIAN SAVINGS BANK
QUESTION
- SIR AUCKLAND GEDDES
INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS
QUESTION
- DUTY ON BANANAS
QUESTION
- NAVAL MANOEUVRES
QUESTION
- RETIREMENT OF MAJOR SWEETLAND
QUESTION
- THE CANUNGRA SAW-MILLS
QUESTION
- WHEAT POOL PAYMENT OF ADVANCE
QUESTION
- PUBLIC SERVICE APPOINTMENTS
QUESTION
- CITRUS CANKER
QUESTION
- MESSRS. KIDMAN AND MAYOH’S SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT
QUESTION
- FLINDERS ISLAND MAIL SERVICE
QUESTION
- PAPER

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Hon. J. M. Chanter) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 9263

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1921-22

Message recommending appropriation reported, and referred to the Committee of Supply.

page 9263

QUESTION

EXPORTATION OP. AUSTRALIAN FAUNA

Mr MAKIN:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– In view of the fact that the Board of Management of the Adelaide Museum has suggested the formation of committees to adviseGovernments as to the limits which should he placed on the exportation of Australian fauna, and that a deputation from the Australian. Institute of Anatomical Science has asked the Minister for Trade and Customs to -prohibit the export of certain kinds of Australian mammals, will the Minister say what the Government intend to do in this matter?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– The whole matter is under consideration.

page 9264

QUESTION

CENSUS AND ELECTORAL RETURNS

Mr BOWDEN:
NEPEAN, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the Minister representing the Minister for Home ‘and Territories make available to honorable members the figures published in to-day’s newspapers giving census returns?

Mr WISE:
Postmaster-General · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · NAT

– I will lay them on the table of the House.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:
ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Will the honorable gentleman also give the figures showing the enrolment in the various electorates at the latest date for which they are obtainable?

Mr WISE:

– Yes,

page 9264

QUESTION

WESTERN AUSTRALIAN SAVINGS BANK

Mr FOLEY:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– Are negotiations proceeding for the taking over ‘by the Commonwealth of the Western . Australian Savings Bank; and, if so, will this House have an opportunity to discuss the terms ‘ before any agreement is finally reached?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Sir Denison Miller is desirous of coming to terms with the State Governments with regard to these matters, but I cannot say whether negotiations are proceeding at the present moment for the taking over of the Savings Bank of Western Australia. The Commonwealth Bank has taken over the business of the Queensland Savings Bank, under conditions which are on record, and I think that some of the other State Savings Banks have also been taken oyer. If the honorable member will place his question on the notice-paper, I shall give him a definite answer.

page 9264

QUESTION

SIR AUCKLAND GEDDES

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Acting Prime Minister noticed the statement in the press, made by my predecessor in the representation of Wentworth, the Honorable W. H. Kelly, that, if an invitation to come to Australia were extended to the British Ambassador in America, Sir Auckland Geddes, he thought it would be accepted? Will the right honorable gentleman consider the matter with a view to bringing it before the Prime Minister?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Yes. If Sir Auckland Geddes can see his way to pay Australia a visit, he will be heartily welcomed,

page 9264

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Mr.FENTON. - Invalid and old-age pensioners receive from the Commonwealth 15s. per week; but in some cases societies are endeavouring to assist them by giving them a little more. The Secretary to the Victoria Racing Club, Mr. Byron Moore, informs me that the club has a benevolent fund for the aid of aged and infirm jockeys ‘and trainers, some of whom are old-age pensioners. Because the club pays these pensioners a little tohelp them in the winter, and while living is high, the administrator of the old-age pensions makes proportionate deductions from their pensions. Could we not put the blind eye to the telescope, and not see that these poor old people are being assisted from outside?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The honorable member asks me, in effect, to break the law in favour of a section Of the community, and I am afraid that I cannot do that.

page 9264

QUESTION

DUTY ON BANANAS

Mr McGRATH:
BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

– When will be the right time for me to move for the reconsideration of ‘ the duty on bananas, seeing that the promise made by the representatives of the banana growers has not been kept, . and that the price of bananas. has been increased to 8s. a case?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I am not prepared to admit that there is a right time; but the honorable gentleman will, no doubt, be able to ascertain from the Chairman of Committees what actionhe can take.

page 9264

QUESTION

NAVAL MANOEUVRES

Mr MARKS:

– Adverting to the very impressive and well carried out naval manoeuvres in Port Jackson last Saturday, when the Governor-General reviewed the outward-bound fleet, I ask the Minister for the Navy if he will confer with the Commodore Commanding in order that a more suitable hour may be fixed for such manoeuvres,so that the people who pay may see their ships, and the rising generation may profit by the spectacle.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
Minister for the Navy · DENISON, TASMANIA · NAT

– The Naval Board and myself much appreciate the great interest shown last Saturday in the naval manoeuvres in PortJackson, and we regret that it was impossible, because of the short notice, to give effect to the wish of the honorable member, who telegraphed to me asking that a later hour might be fixed for the departure of the fleet. The vessels left Port Jackson early because the Commodore desired to carry out some exercises on his way to Jervis Bay. We have given consideration to this question, and, in future, we shall endeavour to meet the wish which has been expressed by the honorable member.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:

– I : ask the Minister for the Navy why members of this Parliament were not invited to attend the important function which took place in New South Wales lastweek?

Mr LAIRD SMITH:

– Having in mind the very strenuous time which honorable members experiencedhere last week, I felt that it would not be advisable for me to issue invitations to them to ‘attend the naval manoeuvres in question. I assure them, however, that, in future, I shall be most careful to see that their interests are conserved.

page 9265

QUESTION

RETIREMENT OF MAJOR SWEETLAND

Mr MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

What are the reasons for the retirement of Major Sweetland from the Commonwealth Military Forces?
What was the length of his service, and was such service satisfactory?
Did he receive any retiring allowance?
Did he receive his long service furlough?
Did he serve in the late war?
Will the Minister lay on the table of the House the papers connected with Major Sweet- land’s retirement from the A.M.F.?

Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE:
Assistant Minister for Defence · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

A Committee of Senior Officers was assembled by direction of the Minister, after the return of Permanent Officers from the war, to consider the distribution and appointments to be taken up by Permanent Officers. The Committee reported that they were unable to recommend certain officers - of whom Major Sweetland was one - for further employment, and recommended that, in view of the need for retrenchment, as the services of such officers were those which could best be spared, they be placed on the half-pay list for a period of one year, and then placed on the Unattached List, in accordance with section 23of the Defence Act. This was approved.
From 31st January, 1896, to 16th May, 1920, Major Sweetland’s service has not attained to the standard required.
No. There is no provision made in the Defence Act or Regulations for Retiring Allowances for members of the Permanent Forces, other than for permanent injuries in the performance of duties or on account of age or infirmity.
No. An application has been received, however, which will be given due consideration.
Yes. He was at Gallipoli for fourteen days.
It is not considered advisable to lay such confidential papers on the table, but the honorable member is welcome to inspect them at the Department.

page 9265

QUESTION

THE CANUNGRA SAW-MILLS

Mr MAKIN:

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

What were the reasons on which the War Service Homes Commission based its decision to close down the Canungra Saw-mills, and to render the Federal timber industry in Queensland practically idle.
Was the Government or its advisers aware, When the purchase of Queensland timber interests was effected, that such a decision would be necessary; if not, why not?
How long is the present state of affairs likely to continue?
Does the Government intend to adopt all or any of the recommendations of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts in regard to these timber purchases?
Is it true that steps are being or are to be taken to resell or let by contract the mills and areas purchased last September?
Were any contracts for the supply of sawn timber, case timber, &c, held by Laheys Limited at the time the Canungra mill was purchased; if so, what were they?
Were such contracts completed by this mill after the Commonwealth assumed control; if not, why not?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– I understand that my colleague, the Assistant Minister for Repatriation, intends to make a general statement upon the whole subjectto the House at a very early date.

page 9266

QUESTION

WHEAT POOL PAYMENT OF ADVANCE

Mr STEWART:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether the proposed further advance of 1s. 3d. per bushel on last season’s wheat is to be made net to the growers without any deductions ?
1. Upon what date will the payments be made?
2. Has a definite date yet been fixed for the winding up of the earlier pools?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes, except in South Australia, where, in certain cases, the full dockings were not deducted from previous advances.
The date has not yet been fixed, but it is thought that payment will be. made early in July.
No.

page 9266

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE APPOINTMENTS

Mr GIBSON:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

What positions in the Federal Public Service have applications been called for since 1st January, 1921, at a salary of £500 and over?
At what salaries respectively?
What appointments have been made during the above period at salaries of £500 and over?
By whom have they beenfilled, and for what positions respectively ?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The information asked for by the honorable member is being obtained, and will be made available as soon as possible.

page 9266

QUESTION

CITRUS CANKER

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

asked the Minister for Trade and Customs, upon notice -

’ Whether he has seen the statement that the question of banning the importation of citrus fruits from Australia is to be discussed by the American Government Departments because of the alleged danger of citrus canker?
Has the Minister any information that this disease exists in Australia; if not, does he consider it advisable to inform the American Department concerned?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes.
The presence of citrus canker in the Northern Territory wag reported in 1916, and a proclamation was immediately issued prohibiting the importation of citrus fruits from the Northern Territory into any other part of

Australia. Steps were at once taken to eradicate the disease from the Northern Territory. Citrus canker has never existed in any other part of Australia. The American Government has been communicated with on the matter.

page 9266

QUESTION

MESSRS. KIDMAN AND MAYOH’S SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT

Mr GREGORY:
DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice–

What action has the Government taken, or what action does it propose to take, in reference to the report of the Public Works Committee in connexion with the shipbuilding contract entered into with Messrs. Kidman and Mayoh?

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Default has been made by the contractors in connexion with the contract, and the Government has notified the contractors accordingly. The matteris now in the hands of the law advisers of the Government.

page 9266

QUESTION

FLINDERS ISLAND MAIL SERVICE

Mr WISE:
NAT

– Yesterday, the following question was asked on behalf of the honorable member for Bass : -

What arrangements are being made to maintain the mail service between Launceston and Flinders Island now that the s.s. Dolphin hasbeen detained by the Launceston Marine Board?

I promised that the information would be obtained; and the Deputy PostmasterGeneral, Hobart, reports that, pending official confirmation of newspaper reports that the s.s. Dolphin is unseaworthy, arrangements have been made to despatch mails by ketches trading to Flinders Island on every possible opportunity.

page 9266

QUESTION

PAPER

The following paper was presented : -

War Service Homes Act - Land acquired under, in New South Wales, at -

Alexandria, Tamworth, Waratah

SUPPLY (Formal).

Question - That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair, and that the House resolve itself into Committee of Supply - proposed.

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

That the debate be now adjourned.

Question resolved inthe affirmative.

– There are no special purposes.

Mr ATKINSON:

– Some people say that oregon must be used for special purposes. Very large buildings are being constructed at the present time, and it* is questionable whether we have a hardwood or any other timber in Australia as suitable for beams for such buildings as oregon is admitted to be. Again, if we have not an Australian timber suitable for butter boxes, I see no reason why arrangements could not be made for the importation of New Zealand pine for this purpose.

Mr. Bayley. We have any quantity of timber suitable for butter boxes.

Mr ATKINSON:

– I have been given to understand that Queensland hoop pine is suitable, but that, if we except the “ tops,” it would be a waste of a good timber to use the Queensland hoop pine for making butter boxes.

Mr Corser:

– I shall give the reason.

Mr.- RICHARD FOSTER. - And I shall be glad to hear the matter explained. The honorable member for Lilley (Mr. Mackay) says that the sawmills are idle because orders are not forthcoming, but that is not so. Does not the honorable member realize that within the last few months building in Australia has almost collapsed. Why has it collapsed? In the first place, there has been a suspension of building operations owing to the high rates of interest charged on borrowed money, and, secondly, because of the high price of timber. People cannot afford to build until the timber is available at a more reasonable price, and unless the money market becomes easier many of our sawmills will be idle for a long time. Last night the Minister quoted figures as to the number of houses that had been erected in Sydney and suburbs, which showed that the high-water mark was reached before the, war. Building activities then receded for about three years during the war period, and in 1919 and in 1920 the position improved. In 1921 the figures dropped to zero. This is accounted for by the fact that the public is expecting a big drop in prices, especially in timber, and whilst people are waiting for a reduction the saw-milling industry, as well as other industries, will be affected. For every saw-miller . and workman in the forests thrown out of employment owing to the conditions I have mentioned, twenty or thirty men in the cities are prevented from following their usual occupations.

Dear Sirs, -

The Queensland Forests Service is now in a position to supply pine, pine tops, . and hardwood logs, good quality, up to any quantity. If you are requiring any Queensland timbers, it may be to your benefit to give the above your attention. We have our own teams in operation on the State forests. We can guarantee immediate delivery, subject to shipping being available. All inquiries relative to quotes, &c., will receive prompt attention, and any further information may be obtained on application to the above address.

Your faithfully,

H. Simon, Chief Forester, per W.J.B.

Mr BAYLEY:

– Yesterday the honorable member spoke about the royalty charged on timber in Queensland, but he must at the time have overlooked what has been done by the South’ Australian Government in charging royalty. Many years ago that Government spent a large sum on afforestation, planting a big area with pinus insignis and other trees. For many years the expenditure was looked upon in the light of the upkeep of a white -elephant, and prior to the war a royalty of 6d. per 100 feet super. was charged for timber cut in the State forests.

Recently, however, it was found that the pinus insignia, though unsuitable for building, was eminently suitable for casemaking, and the South Australian Government thereupon increased its royalty from 6d. to 10s. per 100 feet super.

Mr Bowden:

– But it had planted the trees; they were not being cut from a natural forest.

Mr BAYLEY:

– As the honorable member for Lilley (Mr. Mackay) has pointed out, the Queensland Government has spent much of the royalties it has received on timber in carrying out expensive afforestation, and on the forest service generally. These royalties go into the Consolidated Revenue; and of late the Queensland Government, which does not occupy an enviable financial position, has been glad to have money at its disposal; but their Director of Forests (Mr. Swayne) to whom reference has been made from time to time, has his heart in his work, and is determined to spend as much money as he can in afforestation. If he has his way, as there is every indication that he will, an ever-increasing amount will be placed to the credit of his Department, and as a result the quantity of softwood obtainable in Queensland will increase. We do not claim that there is’ in that State sufficient pine to supply the demands of Australia; but that is largely because pine is being used for many purposes for which other timbershould be used, and there are in our scrubs many timbers which could be advantageously substituted for it. If the StateGovernments as a whole will carry out an effective system of afforestation, there’ is no reason why Australia should not become, for all practical purposes, selfcontained in the matter of timber supplies. In conclusion, I ask the Minister if he will accept an amendment to increase the duty in sub-itemf, general Tariff, to at least 5s.per 100 feet super. From the opinions expressed, it is evident that the Committee favours a moderate increase in the Tariff on oregon.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

.- I consider it my duty to the Committee, and to a firm mentioned yesterday by the honorable member for Swan (Mr. Prowse), to give the facts concerning a contract of which he spoke. Most honorable members know Mr. V. B. Trapp, of 31 Queen-street, Melbourne, who is one of the largest dealers in timber. He has sent me the following letter, bearing to day’s date:-

I have just heard a remark that was passed in the House in which my name was mentioned as regards certain Queensland contracts. I would like you to give this a most emphatic denial., The Government, for war purposes, commandeered all our boats, and the timber could not be brought down. The firm that evidently gave this were sitting on a rail. For three months they would not hand in their specification, and were just waiting to see which way the cat jumped. Messrs. Anthony, the Globe Timber Mills of Adelaide, and two other firms, owing to the position, cancelled their contracts as it was thought trade was bad, and they could not possibly take the timber. Letters were repeatedly written to the firm that evidently has given the particulars, asking for their specifications, and it was not until the apparent shortage of timber took place that they then demanded their timber, and sent in their specifications, and signed their contracts. In the meantime the vessels which brought this timber were sent with our troops or as hospital ships for the war. The position was placed before the Attorney-General, and a Bill was passed through the Federal House to protect those who had made contracts and could not deliver owing to the Federal Government having commandeered all the vessels that brought this timber, for war purposes. I would strongly urge you to read this out in the House, as the information which was given was grossly and deliberately incorrect.

Mr Gregory:

– I rise to order. I direct your attention, Mr. Temporary Chairman, to the statement just read, that cer tain information given to the Committee last night by the honorable member for Swan “was grossly and deliberately inaccurate.” That statement should be withdrawn. The honorable member for Wide Bay should not have read it.

Mr Prowse:

– The contract that I read last night was signed by V. B. Trapp and Company,’ and was open to the inspection of honorable members. I have learned since that the operations of the War Precautions Act delayed the performance of part of the contract-

Mr Foley:

– I should like to know whether the honorable member for Swan. (Mr. Prowse) is in order in discussing something which is extraneous to the point of orderraised by the honorable member for Dampier (Mr. Gregory) ?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Atkinson:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

-The honorable member for Dampier (Mr. Gregory) has pointed out that the honorable member for Wide

Bay (Mr. Corser) has quoted from a letter in his possession statements which reflect upon an honorable member of this Chamber. I must ask the honorable member to withdraw those statements.

Mr CORSER:

– I have merely quoted from a communication which has been sent to me. However, in deference to your ruling, sir, I withdraw the statements in question. Another document I have received, which is from the City Moulding, Planing, and Saw-mills, and is signed by T. Anthony and Company, a’Beckett-street west, Melbourne, under date 16th January, 1917, reads -

Please cancel any orders you may have for us for Queensland hoop pine and maple.

– Upon raisins and all other dried fruits, which are produced at Mildura and Renmark. But some honorable members think that because certain classes of timber cannot be grown in South Australia, the industry in Queensland should not be protected. Had we dealt with dried fruits, salt, wine, &c, in that manner, I fear that the honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Richard Foster) would have regarded our action as a very mean one. At the present time, we purchase from South Australia paint for building purposes, in addition to wines, spirits, and hops, all of which are highly protected. But we do not urge that those articles do not require protection because we do not produce them in Queensland.

– In that contract the timber has not been delivered after five years. One would think that if these millers were anxious to fulfil their contracts they would carry the timber down on their backs to its destination. The following is a letter from Messrs. Beecham and Company to the Enterprise Saw-mills, Warburton, dailed 1st June, 1917: -

Please book the following hardwood: - > 500,000 feet super. 7-in. x 1-in. hardwood, full out 7 inches wide, free from gum veins, lengths 12 to 20 feet preferred, quarter sawn, at 13s. 6d. super., Arden-street Siding; less our usual discount. 1,000,000 feet super. hardwood; delivery and specification from time to time, at to-day’s list prices, less our usual discount.

That means that the timber merchant would send up from time to time the sizes he required, and the arrangement was that the price had to be the current price when the. timber was delivered. The result was the delivery of 20,000 feet of the 1,500,000 feet. Yet we are told that saw-mills are closing for lack of orders.

Mr Corser:

– Why not give the order to Queensland, where there are many mills to choose from?

Mr STORY:

– The honorable member may interview the firm concerned, charge them with issuing a false document, and take the consequences in a Court of law. I also said yesterday that, for manypurposes, hardwood is not suitable. As honorable members are aware, a considerable amount of building is done in reinforced concrete; most of the large places in our principal cities are thus constructed. Now, the only timber that, serves satisfactorily for this work is Oregon ; no other timber can be used successfully; and, as we may imagine, it takes an immense amount of oregon to supply the requirements in connexion with all the concrete building going on in Australia to-day. Any increased duties on oregon must have the effect of making reinforced concrete building so much dearer. The following letter, dated 23rd June, 1921, is from the Reinforced Concrete and Monier Pipe Construction Company to Messrs. Beecham and Company : - -

Re Hardwood Timber.

Replying to your inquiry, we beg to say that we received a quantity of this from you and others for the purpose of experimenting with it in connexion with our operations. We regret to say we find hardwood quite unsuitable for concrete forms, the reason being that after the hardwood has become saturated with water from the wet concrete it buckles, i.e., will not keep its shape in drying, and consequently can only be employed once. In our experiments with hardwood for this purpose, our treatment has been sympathetic, as we were exceedingly anxious to use it if possible. We find that the only timber we can economically employ for making forms is oregon, which does not distort in drying, and, . consequently, can be used time after time. Another feature which makes the oregon more adapted to our work is its lightness as compared with hardwood, which, of course, facilitates its handling and cutting. As you are aware, we use a very large quantity of timber for forms in. our reinforced concrete constructions, and, consequently, it is a matter of great importance to us that suitable timber is obtainable at a moderate price..

– Of what use is it for the honorable member to persist in saying that we can get the timber’ we require from Queensland when it has been proved that Queensland cannot supply our requirements? When the Tariff of 1908 was introduced the position was exactly the same as it is to-day, when Moore and Company gave an order to Queensland firms for the supply of 1,500,000 feet of hoop pine, and could not get delivery. I object to the absurdly exaggerated statements made by the honorable member for Wide Bay. The Queensland people cannot supply the timber required, nor can the Victorian sawmillers, as I have just proved. If people in South Australia must be dependent on Queensland or Victoria for the timber they require, then it is a case of “God help them!” At the present time freight from America to Port Adelaide is lower than from Brisbane to Port

Adelaide. Hardwood is very much, more expensive to use thanoregon, and because of its weight the freight on hardwood is three times as much as the freight on oregon. We have honorable members coming from Queensland endeavouring to force upon the people the payment of high duties on the imported timber which they must have in order to benefit at the most a few hundred people engaged in the timber industry, and that only for a short time, because, as I have previously pointed out, the quantity of timber is so limited that it must in a comparatively few years be exhausted.

Mr GREENE:
Minister for Trade and. Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

. -I should be very glad if honorable members would enable us to reach the first sub-item, which it is desired to amend. I do not propose to agree to the alteration of any of the sub-items down to sub-itemf, which is the first sub-item in connexion with which I have intimated to the Committee that I propose to agree to an increase of duty. If honorable members are prepared to vote on these sub-items down to sub-item f I shall then submit an amendment to that sub-item, which, I think,. will meet with their acceptance.

Mr BELL:
Darwin

– I am very sorry that the Minister cannot see his way to agree to some increase in the duties upon sub-item c. I would like to say, first of all, that I should much prefer to have afixed duty rather than an ad valorem duty imposed in connexion with this subitem. I am prepared to. move that the fixed duty be per 100 super: feet, British, 4s.; intermediate) 4s.; general, 5s. Perhaps the Minister will, say whether he will agree to that..

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I am afraid I cannot agree to that.

Mr.BELL. - In the circumstances, as the Minister seems determined. not, to accept any amendment on any of the subitems down to sub-item f,. I am afraid I must let sub-item c go as it stands.

Mr CHARLTON:
Hunter

:- During the general discussion on this item 2,91, the Minister (Mr. Greene) said that he was prepared to agree to an increase of the proposed duty on sub-item f, and I think that he said he was prepared to accept a duty . of 4s., I doubt very much whether that would be adequate.

Mr Fowler:

– It is a considerable jump from1s. to 4s. per 100 super, feet.

Mr CHARLTON:

– I move-

That the item be amended by inserting after sub-item (f) the following:-“ And on. and after 24th June, 1921, per 100. super, feet,.

British, 5s.; intermediate, 5s.; general, 5s.”

Mr.Fenton. - Why not make the duty 6s. per 100 super, feet?

Mr.CHARLTON. - I do not wish to be unreasonable. There is no occasion torenew the discussion on the item, which has already been discussed very fully. I think that the debate has shown that there is a consensus of opinion in the Committee in favour of a substantial increase in the duty on this sub-item. I feel that, in proposing that the duty should be 5s. per 100 super, feet,. I am under-estimating the duty which a majority of honorable members would desire to impose.

Mr BELL:
Darwin

.- I shall support the amendment, though I should have preferred a duty of 6s. per 100 super, feet. Many weeks ago, after going into the matter very thoroughly, I came to the conclusion that 6s. per 100 super, feet would be a fair duty, and, perhaps, the lowest which ought to be imposed under sub-itemf. I do not wish to ask that the duties under these sub-items should be increased by 6d. more than is absolutely necessary. Representatives of theindustry have informed me that a duty of 6s. per 100 super, feet under sub-item f would be insufficient. They havesupplied me with figures, whichI cannot dispute, which show that, in view of thecost of producing the timber and putting- it on the market, a duty of less than 10s. would be inadequate.. I am of opinionthat any duty less than 6s. will be inadequate ; but I shall not oppose the amendment for the sake of ls.per 100 super., feet. Ithink that, the honorable member for Hunter (Mr, Charlton) is right in proposing a minimum duty, inasmuchas he will have the assurance of the support of the majority of the Committee. It is unnecessary to debate the matter further, as it has been discussed from every aspect. I admit that, astheMinister (Mr. Greene) said last night, it is very difficult indeed to decidewhat can be done to protect this industry without doing, some injustice to the mining and other industries, using, timber largely. I have no desire toprevent the importation of- Oregon for purposes for which it is specially suitable; and taking everything into consideration, I think a duty of 5s. per 100 super, feet under sub-itemi f will be acceptable to those engaged in the timber. ‘ industry, in Australia ; and I hope the Committee will support the amendment.

Mr Austin Chapman:

– I should like the- Minister to make- a definite) statement on the amendment;

Mr GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I wish to say that, after giving the matter very careful consideration, since I spoke- last night, I am prepared to- move an amendment making the duties, on- sub-item f, British, 3s. ; intermediate,. 3s. ; general, 4s.,

Mr Austin Chapman:

– Will the preferential Tariff apply to Canada?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr:Fleming. - That would be an awkward size.

Mr CHARLTON:

– I do not think it would beanawkward size. At any rate, if we could come- to ‘some common understanding after a short discussion uponi the matter it would be a good thing for’ all.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:
Monaro · Eden

.- Those who are listening to- this debate would, perhaps, imagine that it is simply a duel between Queensland and South Australia. The argument of the . honorable, member for Boothby (Mr: Story) is. that because some_ merchant, in the south sent an order for timber to. Queensland, and after- many years still had 40.000 feet, undelivered, we should not give effective protection- tothe timber industry. I want to point out to the, honorable member that this1- is not a parochial- question, but is one which affects Australia as a whole, and that other States are entitled to have a say in the matter; I also take this opportunity of- reminding the honorable member- for- Swan (Mr. Prowse) and his fellow-members who. have- had so much to.. say during this debate on behalf of the industries in which they’ are intimately concerned, that it is necessary to regard these matters from an Australian point of view, and that unless we have men employed in various industries it will be impossible for the honorable member for Swan to get a decent price for his wheat and flour.

Mr Prowse:

– Do not worry about that.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

– I am worrying on behalf of the wheat-growers in my own district.

Mr Corser:

– The wheat-growers want silos, but are not prepared to assist others.

Mr Fleming:

– And they require timber for those silos.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

– In regard to requiring timber, let me read the following for the benefit of the Committee -

The Director of Forests., Mr. G. F. Swaine, (Queensland, takes a very serious view of the prospect of the timber industry in Australia. He points out that owing to the financial crisis in the United States of America 45,000 timber mills operating there on 800,000,000 acres of forest have been left with huge supplies of timber, and they are forced to sell below cost. Millions of feet of such timber are being dumped in Australia at prices so low as to threaten to extinguishthe saw-milling industry in Australia, and since a reduction in wages is undesirable, the only alternative is an ‘ adequate Tariff, protective, but not prohibitive, which will not increase the price of timber.

Mr Jowett:

– Who said that?

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

-That is not so. I am endeavouring to reply to the . honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Richard Foster) and others who have said that the imposition of increased duties will hold up building operations. Some people may regard me as a rabid Protectionist, and I may say at once that if I had my. way, in respect of anything that we could supply for ourselves, I would place a barrier against competition from any other part of the world. The Minister (Mr. Greene) has told us that he intends to introduce two measures - an Anti-Dumping Bill and a Bill providing for* the appointment of a Tariff Board. The Anti-Dumping Bill, I believe, will mean increased protection for our industries. In view of a recent decision of the High Court, I think that we have full power to prevent any one from fleecing the public. That being so, users of either local or imported timber, with the appointment of a Tariff Board, will be perfectly safe. The honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Story) says that the only duty that matters, so far as this item is concerned, is thatimposed under the general Tariff. I agree with him, because our chief competition in this trade comes from the United States of America and Canada. If I had my way, the duty under the general Tariff would not be 4s. per 100 super, feet, as proposed by the Minister, but 6s. or 8s. per 100 super, feet. I suppose we shall have to be content with the Minister’s proposition ; but if the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) pushes his proposal for a duty of 5s. per 100 feet super., I shall support him. I do not know why so much heat should have been engendered over this question.

Mr Hector Lamond:

– Of course, it does not matter that, in some cases, five or six families are sleeping in the one building.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA · ALP; UAP from 1931

– The honorable member is one of those who think that every duty means an increased cost, whereas we have absolute proof that the contrary is the case, both here and in America. If some millers or. timber merchants take advantage of this slightly increased duty, the Minister will have power to deal with them through the Tariff Board. He will be able to tell the Parliament that these people, who are enjoying the benefit of our Protective policy, are not doing the fairthing, and suggest that we should not give them the measure of protection that we have extended to them in the past.

Mr STORY:
Boothby

. -I regret that the Minister (Mr. Greene) has agreed to accept a proposal to increase the duty under the general Tariff to 4s. per 100 super, feet. Such a duty is altogether too high, and I shall divide the Committee on it. Had the honorable gentleman compromised by making a proposal to fix the duty at 3s. per 100 super. feet, he might possibly have given greater satisfaction. As it is, this will be only a revenue duty. Advocates of more protection for the timber industry have not furnished any proof that if we grant this protection Australian timber will replace the imported softwoods now used for building purposes, nor have they shown that a full supply of the necessary timbers is available. Facts have been adduced showing that we have no Australian timber which can take the place of oregon for certain purposes. Oregon is the only timber that can be used for certain specific building purposes. The duty, whatever it may be, as finally agreed to, will be of a purely revenue character and will not assist our timber industry.

– The cost of building is too high, and people will not build houses at the present rates. I suppose the same thing is true in America.

Mr FOWLER:

– Exactly; but I remind the Committee that American timber is not coming into competition in price with the Australian article. It still stands at a substantially high figure above the price quoted for Australian hardwood, so that I fail to see the danger of competition in that direction. We are not going to stimulate employment in this industry by means of a duty. Not until money becomes more plentiful, interest becomes a little cheaper, and the workman himself realizes that he must, in many instances, give better value for his wages than, he has been giving in the past, are we likely to come back to what ought to be the normal activity of a country like this. I am sure that the duty will be only an increased tax on the users of timber to the extent to which the Committee may impose it, and I therefore propose to adhere to the schedule as brought down by the Minister in the first instance, or, failing that, to the lowest possible figure above it. In doing that, I feel sure that I am serving the best interests of the country. If we increase the prices of timber, even to the extent of the rates of duty now proposed, we shall injure a great many subsidiary industries,, in which more capital is invested and more labour employed than in the timber industry. If members will look -the -situation fairly and squarely in the face, and put aside the suggestions of interested parties that have been made during the debate, they will realize that, for the present at any rate, their duty to the country demands the imposition of only a very low rate on the sub-item under discussion.

Mr FOLEY:
Kalgoorlie

.- I said last night that I had an open mind in regard to the protection to be accorded to the timber industry, though I. realized that the industry needs protection, and the arguments that I have heard since have not made me think that the proposed rates should be lowered. I take the view that the timber industry should be protected in order that Australians may be compelled to use the timber resources of the Commonwealth to the fullest extent, or ‘that when they choose between

Australian and imported timbers, the latter may be fairly handicapped. As

Oregon is quoted at £2, and hardwood ‘at 27s. 6d., there should be no need for a very high Tariff. But it must be remembered that it costs nearly three times as much to get timber to the mills in Australia as it costs to get timber to the mills in. British Columbia, where, when a tree is felled, it can be floated down a river. Western Australia has a wealth of timber, and the State Government has started to conserve its forests scientifically, and to. reafforest; but during the war hardly a stick of scantling could be sent out of the State for lack of ships,, and the people of other States had to import timber from other places. At the present time, 35 per cent. of the Western Australian timber is cut into sleepers and exported, and the rest is wasted, because builders, architects, and others, will not use Australian timber. This is not fair to the country. They are not good Australians who will not use the natural wealth of the country. But what guarantee have we that if the duties are increased Australian timber will be more used than it is now? It has been objected to the use of hardwood that it is more difficult to work than softwood, but except where very big spans are required, necessitating the use of a large timber like oregon, there is no better wood for structural work than jarrah or karri. Jarrah can be bought to-day for 27s. 6d., and oregon costs 40s., yet builders and others use oregon in preference to jarrah. The shipping companies have not made it easier for the public to use Australian timber. For many years the freight from Western Australia to South Australia and Victoria was 21s. per ton, and it is now £21 2s. a ton. These companies want us to help them, and, before doing so, we should ask them to make a return to the public. I feel that if I could force the people of Australia to make more use of Western Australian timbers, which are admirably suited for every class of work, it would be my duty to do so. In seeking information about the timber industry, I have not gone to one side only, I have asked for it in every quarter. The manager of the State Sawmilling Department of Western Australia, the State Conservator of Forests, the Timber Workers Union. Millar’s

Karri and Jarrah Company, the Mill Employees Union, and representatives of private companies, all assure me that the industry needs protection. Unfortunately, the Minister (Mr. Greene), when questioned by me on the subject last night, could not definitely declare that the Dumping Bill which he intends to introduce will do what I desire shall be done. There is another Bill to be introduced for the protection of the consumer against the protected manufacturer who unduly increases prices; but neither Bill will, in my opinion, give the consumer the protection that he needs. I have stated that I would be willing to allow the Minister to give a rebate on big sizes of oregon required for mining, because that is a primary industry which we should carefully foster. But the Minister tells me, and my own information is to the same effect, that the Constitution will not empower him to follow timber after it has left the bond for, say, Broken Hill, or some other mining field, and to give a fair rebate on it if necessary. I understand, however, that he could follow it into a timber yard, and that there would be a possibility of the sawmiller getting a rebate. If we cannot properly protect the primary producer, it would seem that something is wrong with our Tariff policy.

Sitting suspended from 630 to 8 p.m.

Mr JOWETT:
Grampians

– I am sure that those who have been privileged to listen to this debate must have been, very much impressed by the views and the facts which have been placed before the Committee by honorable members. That impression may, perhaps, be tinged with a little regret that occasionally there has been sounded a note of provincialism.

Mr Gabb:

– Unfortunately, that note is never absent from debates in this Parliament.

Mr JOWETT:

– It is exceedingly unfortunate that, perhaps, every one of us is prone to forget for the moment that he is an Australian, and to remember that he is a Victorian, or a South Australian, or a Queenslander.

Mr Bayley:

– But the honorable member is a man without a constituency now.

Mr JOWETT:

– My honorable friend has alluded to the fact that, according to some press writers, statisticians, and mathematicians, I am about to meet the fate of the man who has the ground cut from under his feet. Should that prediction prove true, and should Victoria in the re-distribution of electoral boundaries lose one electorate, and that electorate the one which has returned me to this Parliament, a large number of people will be greatly distressed. But I cannot imagine a more dignified way of leaving the public life of this country. Should fate decree that I shall thus disappear from the political arena, nobody will be able to say either that my constituents turned me down or that I abandoned them.

Mr JOWETT:

– I am told that it is practically impossible to procure in Melbourne sufficient quantities of those suitable Queensland softwoods of which we have heard so much. However, I wishto read the following report from the Education Department of Victoria: -

As a result of tenders publicly invited for works during the eleven months ended 31st May, 1921, the final result shows under 37 per cent. having been accepted, notwithstanding that in some cases tenders were re-advertised on three separate occasions. This unsatisfactory state of affairs is, it is -believed, primarily traceable to the following causes: -

Fluctuating cost of materials.

Lack of materials.

Cost of labour.

Scarcity of labour.

Artisans’ disinclination to go to the country.

Unstable labour conditions.

It is noted, however, that within the last few months there is a perceptible, if not very pronounced, increase in the number of tenders received. This keener competition is said to be due to the fact that there is a considerable cessation of private building operations; but as yet there is little evidence of any reduction in the cost of building operations.

The CHAIRMAN (Hon J M Chanter:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I am loath to intervene, but I point out that the opportunityfor general debate has passed. The Committee is dealing with a specific item within a division, and with a proposed amendment thereto.

Mr MARR:

– The question of substituting some other timber for hardwood has been raised, and my purpose is to prove that oregon is a suitable substitute.

Mr Foley:

Mr CHARLTON:
Hunter

.- I intend to withdraw my amendment in favour of the suggestion made by the Minister (Mr. Greene), that we should provide for a duty of 3s. per 100 super; feet in respect of the British and intermediate Tariffs, and 4s. per 100 super, feet under the general Tariff, in place of an all-round, duty, of 5s. per 100 super, feet, as proposed by myself. Before doing so, I wish to reply to some of the statements that have been made by honorable members who are opposing an increased duty. Any one reading their speeches without a full knowledge of the facts might come to the conclusion that those who are seeking to make Australia self-contained are prepared, in their efforts to do so, to heap great costs upon the community; while the opponents of reasonable Protective duties are anxious, as far as possible, to assist the great mass of the people. The Tariff debate has shown that the position is exactly the opposite. Honorable members who are opposed to reasonable Protection have freely admitted throughout the Tariff debates’ that they believe that wages in Australia should fall, and fall quickly. My object in fighting for this Tariff is to make Australia self-contained, and to insure that the masses of the people who, from the beginning of the war period, have been struggling to bring their wages into line with the increase in the cost of living, but who have not yet succeeded in doing so, shall not suffer a reduction in wages such as is taking place at the present time all overEurope. It behoves us to see that living conditions in Australia are maintained on a reasonable basis. It is argued that these increased duties will, if carried, increase the cost of building operations. ‘ Building costs are undoubtedly high, and everything, in short, is dear. But the very people whom our opponents in this matter are endeavouring to protect - the importers - have profiteered to as great an extent as any class of business people of whom I know. They have not hesitated to put up prices. I shall not be permitted to speak now of any other matter but that immediately before . the Chair; but, incidentally, I may say that the importers to-day are bringing down their prices as slowly aspossible. As I stated last night, Mr. Knibbs shows that, with a proper system of re-afforestation, we have an ample supply of timber to meet our requirements ‘ for the next 150 years.’ We have a greater area than most countries, and possess vast tracts of forest country. That being so, it ought to be possible for us to provide for all our requirements in the matter of timber..

Coming to the question of employment, I find that there are 1,575 factories dealing with timber in this country, and that they employ 22,756 hands. Unfortunately, many of those men to-day are out of employment. I have just received two telegrams urging me to vote for higher duties in order to save further unemployment in the timber industry. No less a sum than £2,782,214 is annually distributed in connexion with the production of timber in Australia, and we should endeavour to see that there is no falling off in that direction. It is argued by some honorable members opposite that many men engaged in the timber industry are out of work to-day because of the high cost of building. During the war, when we suffered from inflated costs and when building costs were higher than they are to-day, more building was carried on in Australia than during any like period. It cannot be urged, therefore, that the depression in the building trade to-day is due only to high costs. One reason for that depression is that we have to pay for land to-day twice as much as we had to pay for it a few years ago. Another is that the banks are very slow to make advances on house property. It is practically impossible to obtain money for building purposes. That is one of the chief troubles. Those who have money to lend on house property can get 8 per cent, for it. I do not hesitate to say that if to-morrow £1,000,000 were made available at 8 per cent, for investment in house property in the Newcastle district, it would quickly be taken up. The cost of building, and, indeed, of everything else, ought to come down, . but because we are trying to protect the timber industry and to find employment for our own people as against those overseas, we are told that we are endeavouring to heap further costs on the community. The Minister said the duty might represent £12 in respect of the timber required for a four-roomed cottage, but he was careful to say that he did not admit that the duty would be passed on. I do not think it will be passed on.

It has been said that Australia does uot produce timber suitable for mining purposes. I used great quantities of jarrah’ while mining in Western, Australia, and I know of no better timber for the purpose.

Mr Richard Foster:

– Jarrah is wauted for railway sleepers throughout Australia;

Mr Corser:

– It is being exported.

Mr CHARLTON:

– That is so. It is an excellent timber for mining purposes. I have seen oregon practically give way under a pressure which jarrah would have withstood. We have hardwoods that are good enough for any purpose, and their breaking strain is greater than that of oregon. Oregon is used by some mining companies, not. because it is hotter than jarrah, but because it is lighter,’ and, therefore, costs less in the matter of freights and is easier to handle. Why should honorable members suggest that these increased duties will heap additional cost on the people? I do notbelieve. they will add one penny to the cost of building a house, but that they will help to keep the Australian market for Australian timbers. Owing to the fall in freights and the drop in wages in other countries we shall be unable, in the absence of adequate duties, to prevent the importation of timber in enormous quantities. It is idle to talk of a natural Protection enjoyed by the industry here. Quite a number of saw-millers have told me that it costs more to bring timber from Northern- New South Wales to Sydney than it costs to convey it from America to Sydney. That being so, is it not fair to protect this industry ? Will these duties add to the cost of building?

Mr Story:

– Of course they will.

Mr CHARLTON:

– That is not so. Their only effect will be to prevent the use of so much imported timber as is employed in building construction at the present time. Oregon is becoming cheaper every week, and is likely to continue to fall in price. We must provide for our own people.. I want to see living conditions in . this country continued, on a reasonable basis. The bottom is falling out of everything abroad, and the workers are asked . to accept from 20 to 40 per cent, reductions in wages. Unless we take steps to prevent that sort of thing, we shall have it here also. . For these reasons, the Committee will act wisely if it accepts the Minister’s amendment. I withdraw my amendment in favour of his.

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
Wakefield

.- I’ repeat that if this item, at the duty proposed by the Minister; is carried, it will irritate the people of Australia more than any other item in the Tariff. It is sickening to hear the repetition again and again of statements about supporting Australian industries. We are asking for, at least, a reasonable duty on timber that has been imported in the past and will continue to be imported, whatever Tariff is put on.

Mr Brennan:

– We must stand to the local industries, and keep the money in the country. ‘ «

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

– I know that argument. Honorable members know that this timber must come in, and that it is one of- the raw materials for nearly all the industries in this country in one way or another.

Mr Bayley:

– What, oregon?

Mr. RICHARD FOSTER. Yes,

Oregon, and the people know it. If they do not, I am going to let them know it. I am amazed at this Government, in these ‘ times, with the present need of buildings in every city, and in every part of every State -

Mr Marr:

– And at Canberra, too.

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

Mr.Wise. - The honorable member had better drop the question of Free Trade and Protection.

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

– I will not drop the question of Oregon and Baltic timber, and this will not be my last statement on the subject. In the twelve or thirteen years that I have been in this House I have never had a word to say on grievance day, but, by Heavens, I am going to make up for it on this question.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:
Illawarra

– I listened with considerable interest to the speech of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Charlton). It seems to me unfortunate that these duties should have to be considered at a time when the conditions of the industry are such as to enable very specious arguments to be put forward, based on the fact that large numbers of men are unemployed at this time. I do not forget, however, that only a little while ago, in New South- Wales, the Labour platform was occupied by men whose principal stock-in-trade was denunciation of the enormous profits that were being made by the Timber Combine out of the returned soldiers and the workers who wanted to erect homes for themselves. I agreed with them then, and I agree with them now.

Mr Fenton:

– The timber merchants are the Timber Combine, if you ask me. It is not the saw-millers.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:

– I am not asking the honorable member for any information as to the Timber Combine in New South Wales. His remarks show him to be utterly ignorant of the facts of that matter, but he cannot pretend to be ignorant of the fact that, as the result of the high price of timber and other building commodities to-day, a working man cannot get a decent house at a price within his command. As evidence of that, we have in our State a Labour Government erecting workers’ homes, and unable to do so at a price that will enable the worker to pay the rent which must be asked for them. The State Government have ‘on hand to-day numbers of such houses, and the workers are unable to pay the necessary rent for them. The reason is that which members of the Onposition gave in this chamber all through the last session, that, owing to the war and its circumstances, the predatory industries of this country were able to raise their prices to a level far beyond what was fair. I said in connexion with another item in this schedule, that the cause of the industries of Australia had Been prejudiced in the public eye by the action of some of the commanders of industry in this country. The timber industry stands at the head of those which exercised every power they had to extract the last shilling from the people, who were at their mercy during the war. Today we have the spectacle of the men who profess to be the special ‘ representatives of the .working class seeking to impose such a Tariff as will fix the price of this commodity, not at the normal figure, which we were used to paying before the war, or even at that normal figure plus the increase of wages which was secured during the war,, but at the very highest price which the Combines were able to get from the people during the war, and to make that the standard of timber values to the working people of Australia and to all the industries that use timber in Australia. The Minister does wrong to ask us to accept that standard of value as the standard that we should protect by this Tariff. If there is one industry more than another to which we should say, “Bring down your prices to a fair thing,” it is the timber industry. Could we get better proof that the prices charged for timber are inordinately high than the fact that the Government of Queensland charges royalty, sometimes amounting to 25s. per 100 feet, on the timber cut in its forests? The high prices of timber are reflected, not only in the rentals which the workers have to pay for the houses in which they live, but also in the high prices charged for the commodities constructed largely of wood, which are produced in factories, on which the Timber Combines have livied their toll. The dearness of timber affects the whole fabric of our industrial life. It is to me unthinkable that men sent here to represent the workers, and claiming a special right to voice the opinions of the people’, should fight in the vanguard for the big monopolies which the Labour party has hitherto condemned. I regret that the Minister has yielded to the pressure put on him. The Tariff duties originally proposed were fair to all the industries concerned. But many honorable members have been, misled by the fact that unemployment to-day is rife in the timber industry. Why is it rife? The honorable member for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) has supplied the answer to that question. It is rife, not because timber from abroad is pushing Australian timber out of the market, but because neither the imported nor the local timber is being used as it was in 1920, and that is due to the fact that money cannot be obtained for an investment which gives so small a return as house property built while timber is at its present extortionate prices. The people are taking the advice which honorable members opposite gave them .a few months ago, and are saying to the timber companies, “ Until you reduce your prices, we will not use your commodities.” In orderto defeat the public, the timber interests are demanding more Protection to enable them to continue the exploitation of the public. Glad as I should he to see everyindustry protected which acts fairly towards the community, I refuse, under these circumstances, to go as far as the Minister proposes. Until the financial position has been adjusted, no Tariff that we can pass will cause more houses to be built. Honorable members opposite are buoying up the workers engaged in the industry with false hope in asking them to believe that this Parliament, by passing high duties, and playing into the hands of the timber monopolists, will provide them with work. It will be impossible by any Protection to set the timber-mills going, so long as the prices of timber remain, what they are to-day. We should better serve the people of this country it, instead of trying to buttress up the timber monopoly, we devoted our energies to reducing the cost of building. As is everywhere acknowledged, and as has been often repeated in this chamber, nothing is more urgent’ than ascheme for the housing of the people. In New South Wales, a Fair Rents Court has been set up, with the result that no one in that State will build a house to let to another ; so that the worker finds that he must buy a house in which to live ; and houses that used to cost £500, £550, and £600 wereyesterday costing £800, to-day are costing £900, and, should Parliament enable the timber monopolists to extort still more from their customers, will in the near future cost £1,000. The Repatriation Department,’ the War Service Homes Department, the State Savings Bank of Victoria, the Housing Board of New South Wales are Government Departments that tell the same story, which is, that, owing to the extortionate charges for materials the building trade is stagnating. The figures which have been used in this debate to support the case for the timber merchants show the futility of their arguments. In 1920, before this moderate Tariffwas tabled, building was increasing’ in all the States. After this Tariff was tabled, the activity continued, the building in the metropolitan area of New South Wales in 1920 equalling that in 1913. Then came the financial strain, and this activity ceased. It has ceased because many persons cannot sell houses at a price which would compensate them for the prices they were charged for the material used in them.

Mr Jowett:

– And others cannot afford to live in those houses.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:

-That is so. If honorable members knew the profits made by the great timber control of New South Wales, they would be in possession of one of the reasons why to-day it is impossible to build cheaply. I hope that the Committee will not agree to the Minister’s proposal to impose exorbitant duties for the protection of an industry that is already in a position to demand from the people more than it is entitled to ask. During the war the timber industry made enormous profits, and its policy of grab and greed having overshot the mark, it should not expect this Parliament, especially the representatives of the working classes, to further bolster up its profiteering.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn..

Mr BAYLEY:
OXLEY, QUEENSLAND · NAT

-I submit for the consideration of the honorable member forIllawarra (Mr. Lamond) this fact, that during the year 1921, limber to the value of over £4,000,000 was imported into this country, and I ask him whether it would not have been to the advantage of Australia, - or at least a large part of it - if this money had been spent on the purchase of Australian timber, and whether that expenditure would not have gone a long way to relieve the present financial stringency?

Mr BELL:
Darwin

.- Many honorable members who havespoken in this debate have not been able to state their case without wild exaggeration. For example, the honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Richard Foster) said that if we imposed the rates proposed by the Minister, the number of builders who would bo unemployed ‘ would be twenty times as large as the number who would be . unemployed if our saw-milling industry ceased to exist. The figures submitted, by the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) disclosed that there are 22,000 employees in the. milling industry to-day. ‘ If we multiply that number by -twenty, in accordance with the views expressed by the honorable memberforWakefield (Mr. Richard Foster), . we find that there are 440,000 persons who are engaged in building within the Commonwealth. I invite attention to these figures, because they offer a very . good example of the wild statements made by the honorable member for Wakefield . when he was dealing with., the duties proposed upon this item. They show that we can very well afford to pass over any arguments which he has’ advanced, despite the eloquence with which he presented them, and the beat which he displayed. I fear, however, th at the duties suggested by the Minister are really insufficient to give to the milling industry that measure of protection which is absolutely necessary. Nevertheless, I am convinced that we shall have to accept them. But I would again urge the honorable gentleman to consider the suggestion which has been put forward by the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) and myself, in regard to an alteration in the sizes of the timberwhich is covered by this particular sub-item. I would like tosee the sub-item amended in such a way that the duties to be levied shall apply to timber in sizes of 12 inches x 12 inches instead of 32 inches x 6’ inches. Without doubt, the sizes which are being imported to-day are cut specially to meet our Tariff requirements. Is the Minister prepared to consider the suggestion which I am now making.?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– No.

Mr BELL:

– It has been contended that if we impose the duties suggested by the Minister the price of timber will be proportionately increased. May I remind honorablemembers that the c.i.f. cost of Oregon, whichhas entered so largely into this discussion, landed in Melbourne, is 17s. per 100 super, feet, and that it is being retailed at 40s. per 100 super, feet. Obviously there is plenty of room for a reduction in its price, even if we increase the duties proposed to be levied upon it It is very evident, too, that there will be a considerable reduction in the price of this particular timber in the near future. It has been said that the timber industry has been profiteering, inasmuch as it has charged exorbitant prices to the consumer.

But it should be remembered that the average cost of producing 100 super, feet of timber in Victoria in 1908 was only 5s. 2d., whereas in 1921 it was 17s. 8d. - an increase of 12s. 6d. In New South Wales the cost of production in 1908 was , 10s. 8d. per 100 super, feet, whereas in 1921 it was 26s. 3d.,an increase of15s. 7d. In Tasmania, the cost of production in 1908 was 8s. 8d . per 100 super) feet, whereas in 1921 it was 23s. l0d. During recent years thecost of production has increased at such a rate as tonecessitate a considerable increase in the priceof timber. I believe that the Timber Association of Australia has given to the Minister a written assurance that it will not increase its prices. I told the gentlemen who represent the milling industry that unless I had some, such assurance I was not prepared to advocate their cause. I understand that a definite assurance to that effect has now been given. In view of the facts which I have stated, we are justified in believing that even if the duties upon this sub-item be increased, the builder will not be confronted with excessive costs. In conclusion, I would remind the Committee that to a large extent our saw-mills have already ceased to operate. In the northern portion of Tasmania there are forty-two mills which have closed down, with the result that the men engaged in them have been thrown out of employment. We arc amply justified, therefore, in giving to the industry some measure of protection, with a view to insuring its continuance, in the interests not. merely of the . workers em- ployed in it, but ofthe whole community, trust that honorable members will support the duties suggested by the Minister, though I fear that they will be insufficient to insure the successful continuanceof the industry.

Mr GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

.- I move -

That sub-item (f) be amended by adding the following words : - “ And on and after24th June, 1921, per l00 super, feet, British intermediate, 3s.; general,4s.”

After the long debate I do not think it is necessary for me to say any more. If I could have met some of my honorable friends I should have been glad to do so; but under the circumstances 1 feel that what I suggest is a fair compromise, which ought to meet the views that have been expressed.

Mr STORY:
Boothby

.- When I spoke, this afternoon I was under the impression that a compromise had been arranged with the Minister for a duty of 3s. Every honorable member knows that the only column which affects the question is the general column; if we made’ the other two columns blank there would not be the slightest difference, and I intend to move that the duties bo 2s., 2s., and 3s. There is little possibility of any considerable fall in timber values in Queensland. I think that a duty of 3s. is too high on an article which cannot’ be produced in Australia. For a number of purposes there is no timber here that can . take the place of the imported timber. ‘ We have heard much about unlimited supplies in Queensland, and I wish to place on record some recent . information as to the quantity . which is available. Some, of the statements madeby the honorable member f or , Wide Bay (Mr. Corser); if left uncontradicted, might leave a wrong, impression on the Committee. In the reportof the Queensland Director’ of Forests for the., year ending ‘ 30th June, 1920, it is stated’: -

Nowhere in the world has forestry been more unfortunate than in Australia. The Japanese were silviculturists 2,000 years ago. Modern European forestry is 400 years old. But because we learned, as Britishers, to expect the lumber, resources of the Baltic to he laid at our door at . our behest, . we forgot, as Australians, the lesson of self-reliance, and we are. now at the mercy of foreigners, who threaten to cease supply.

The opening paragraph of the Queensland Director of Forests’ report is as follows : -

The Queensland Forest Service, with limited stocks of timber. In hand, and strong demands in sight, has upon it the burden of the responsibility, not only of supplying the wood requirements of the community of to-day, but of making immediate provision for the seeds’ of three generations ahead. Upon the adoption of rightsilvicultural . processes depends the economical establishment of the area of fullystockedforest necessary for Queensland’s industrial development. The earlier these processes are adopted the sooner a condition of imminent bankruptcy of timber will be avoided, and stability in timber prices maintained.

The control ofthe State’s log export trade by . the Forestry authority is pending; and a consequential participation in the lumber import trade in order to bridge the gap between the old forests and. the new is a matter which may. call for consideration eventually.

This is the paragraph to which I particularlydesire to direct the attention of honorable,members-

Undoubtedly, importation of wood into the Commonwealth must be resumed as soon as possible, and be continued until Australia has become self-reliant in the matter of timber sup ply. But mill costs have more than doubled in all countries, and in the ease of our largest’ supplier, the United States of America, the present mill price represents little more thou the cost of production. Normalization of. the exchange rate should result in a lowering of the delivered cost at Australian ports, but this is likely to be balanced byan increase in the mill price as American surplus timber supplies become reduced, owing not only to the overcoming of an existing car shortage, with the consequent diversion of a proportion of the western supplies to the eastern States to make up the deficiency resulting from . the exhaustion of the south-eastern pine belts during’ the war period.

The. competition of cheap imported woods is likely to affect ‘ Queensland ‘. less than any’ other State, particularly ‘as Queensland timber and cabinet wood- are of higher intrinsic worth, than the lumber from the United States of America . or the Baltic. .

I quote that report in order to emphasize, the fact that, if the imposition of this duty has . the effect which honorable members who support it desire, it will lead to a still further depletion of our timber supplies. There is a warning in the report from which I have quoted to which the people should listen. I have also here some works on timber in America, though I do not propose to read them. I do desire to say, however, that they all clearly show that the timber supplies in the United States are being rapidly depleted, and that it will not be very many’ years bef ore we shall be unable to import supplies of. Oregon such as we get to-day. It would be a wise policy on the part of the Commonwealth and the people of Australia to carefully conserve our timber resources by importing the timber we require for building purposes at the cheapest rate. I am astounded at the limited vision of the honorable member for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) on this question. If the object of those who support the high duties is attained, and a few hundred people are employed in the saw-mills of Australia, it will mean, as the honorable member for Wakefield (Mr. Richard Foster) plainly said, that very many more hundreds, if not thousands, of mem engaged in the building trade will be walking about workless owing to the high cost of the timber which is necessary for building, and which, as I have clearly shown, hasno substitute: in Australia. The . duty of 4s. will in every case beadded to the cost of the timber supplied to contractors, thus still further aggravating our present difficulties.’ . Speculative . builders, are afraid to build houses for lettiug purposes because of – the very high coat of materials.’ I personally know that . architects’ offices in South Australia aro full of proposals for buildings of various sorts. Plans have been drawn and tenders called for, but the tenders have been in every case so high . that people have been deterred’ from building, and -are waitinguntil the cost of materials comes down. If the Committee succeeds in increasing the price of Oregon by 4s. per 100 super.’ f eet, as proposed’ by the Minister for Trade and Customs, the present difficulties will be aggravated, and the- construction’ of buildings in Australia still further retarded. Our population . is increasing. ‘ People are getting married every day, and. desire to obtain houses in which to live. This [increases the competition for houses ; and, as an honorable member-opposite . has said, the only. hope that any one now has of getting a house that has become vacant is to pay from £4 to £8 for the key to secure the first chance- of getting into it. I. was perfectly willing to compromise to the extent of accepting a. duty of 3s. in the:general Tariff,: although I believe that that would be 3s. too much.. I believe that -the duty proposed will increase rather:’. -than- decrease unemployment in Australia. It will increase the cost of housesand rents, and will,have’ exactly the opposite effect to that desired bythose who’ would like the dutieson this timber to be even- higher than those, proposed by the Minister. . Would I be in order in submitting as an alternative proposal . to that made by the Minister, that the duty should be: - British, 8s.; intermediate, 3s; and general, 3s.?

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Hon D Watkins:

– The honorable member could give effect to what he desires by moving that 3s. be substituted for. 4s. in the amendment submitted by the Minister.

Mr STORY:

– Then I move-

That the amendment be. amended by omitting “ 4s.” with a view to insert iu lieu thereof “3s.”.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN:The usual procedure is to put the amendment proposing ‘the -highest duty, first, and subsequently- amendments proposing lower duties. I shall, therefore, put first theamendment submitted by; the Minister for Trade- and Customs.

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; LP from 1922; NAT from 1925

-Will the Minister withdraw his amendment in favour of the proposal made’ by- the honorable member for Boothby (Mr. Story)?

Mr Charlton:

– He will not got a vote to-night if he does.

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I should like’ to have’ a vote on my amendment, and if it is not carried I shall accept a duty of 3s. in each column.

Mr Charlton:

– That will not be accepted..

Mr RILEY:
Sydney · South

Mr Corser:

– Who said so?

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

– That has been admitted by men in the business in Queensland and New South Wales, who have said that there- is no realeffective substitute for oregon and Baltic timber. It is proposed to increase the first proposal of the

Minister by 300 per cent., and that burden is to be placed upon the people of Australia. The additional impost will be felt most severely by the workers in the community. I again appeal to honorable members on this side of the chamber to exhibit a spirit of reasonableness, and if they do not wish to do so, I shall take every opportunity of bringing the matter forward until the people receive a fair deal. I am amazed at the attitude of the Government on -this question. Their actions will not be the means of protecting any Australian industry, but will . impose a burden on people who already have sufficient responsibilities to carry. There is not a part of the Commonwealth which is not affected by these proposals, . and those people in the back country, particularly the farmers, who have to use this material will be the chief sufferers. I wish that those who will be so seriously affected had an opportunity of expressing their opinions.

Mr JOWETT:
Grampians

.- It is quite evident-

Mr Bayley:

– The- honorable member agreed to accept this.

Mr JOWETT:

– It is quite evident that we have reached the psychological moment when every member of the Committee desires to learn whether he should, vote for a duty of 3s. or 4s. under the general Tariff. We have to consider the effect this proposal will have on . the cost of living.

Mr Bayley:

– The honorable member said that he would support a duty of 4s.

Mr JOWETT:

– I have a distinct recollection of saying that I would support a duty of 4s. if I could not get the Minister to agree to 3s. Has the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Greene), fully considered the effect the proposed duties will have on the present excessive, preposterous, and extortionate cost of living?

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

-Let us have a division to see what is desired.

Question - That the words proposed to be added to sub-item f (Mr. Greene’s amendment) be so added - put. The Committee divided.

AYES: 31

NOES: 11

– Order ! I wish to inform honorable members that, some- . time ago, I arranged with my deputies upon a certain course of action in order that they should not be deprived of their , privilege of participating in a division, if . they desired to avail themselves of it I arranged that, in such circumstances, I would be available to be called upon at any time when one of them wished me to relieve him in the chair.

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr.Riley. - I desire to raise a point of order, but if I am to dissent from your ruling, Mr. Chairman,, may I ask to whom I am to appeal? You are now in occupation of the chair. If I raise a point of order concerning your right to be in occupancy ef the chair during the division, shall I not be appealing to yourself as Deputy Speaker? I tell you, sir, that I do not intend to appeal to yon.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Will the honorable member please Btate his point of order ?

Mr Riley:

– It is this : Never in the history of this, or any other Parliament, when a division has been oalled for in Committee, has such a proceeding been witnessed as the Temporary Chairman retiring from his occupancy of . the chair in order . to participate in the division, and the Chairman of Committees taking his place. .

Mr Atkinson:

– The honorable member is wrong. It has been done before. I have been a party to such a proceeding.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order I There is no point of order. I wish the honorable member to understand the position. The Speaker is, unfortunately, very ill. As his deputy, I have undertaken the -duties attaching to the Speakership; and, in carrying them out, I have sedulously refrained from participating in divisions, as I had always done hitherto. I have seen it as my duty, in the oiroumstances, to stand on one side. As for proceedings in Committee, I have called upon my deputies to assist Mr. Speaker and myself by taking turns in occupancy of the chair. And I have arranged that, should any of them at any time chance to. be in the chair when a division was called, and desire to participate therein, in order hot to disfranchise their constituency, they should call upon me. Whereupon, still retaining my position as’ Chairman of Committees, I would take the chair and conduct the division. That- is the whole position,.. and I maintain, that it is a very proper one.

– Order!

Mr.West.-I am. . not disobeying, you: I am trying to put you in your proper place.

The CHAIRMAN:

– Order ! If the honorable member persists in defying the Chair, I shall be compelled to namehim.

Mr West:

– I cannot help that.

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:
ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– Whom will you send for, sir, in order to report the matter, if you . name an honorable member?

Mr Riley:

– I want to take a point of order concerning the fact that yon are now occupyingthe chair. To whom am I to appeal if I object to any ruling yon may give on my point of order?’

The CHAIRMAN:

– I have already pointed out the facts of the position. If the honorable memberobjects, in

Committee, to any ruling from the Chair; if for instance, he holds, that I am improperly in occupation of , the Chair,, it will be for the Committee to decide the matter straightway.

Mr Bamford:

-I rise to indorse what you, Mr. Chairman, have said with regard to the position you . are. now’ occupying. Speaking, as. oneof the Temporary Chairmen of Committee,I desire to say that it was’ the unanimous request, of the Temporary Chairman of; Committees . that you, sir, should .. take the chairso that each of us should have an ‘opportunity to vote. We did not want to shirk the responsibility cast upon us of voting on any question that might arise.

Mr.GREENE (Richmond- Minister for’ Trade and Customs) [11.12]:- I move -

That the item be further amendedby adding tha following to sub-item (G): - “And on and after24th June, 1921, per 100 super, feet, British, 4s.6d., intermediate, 4s. 6d.; general, 6s. 6d.

This does not mean as large an increase as on the previous item, the reason being that on looking into the balance of the items when going through the Tariff, it seemed to me that the difference between the sub-item we are. now considering and the previous one was unnecessarily,high. I am, therefore; asking for . a. duty per 100 super, feet less than is imposed In respect of the other sub-item.

Progress reported.

House adjourned at 11.18 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 23 June 1921, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1921/19210623_reps_8_96/>.

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House of Representatives23 June 1921

SUPPLY BILL (No. 1) 1921-22

QUESTION

EXPORTATION OP. AUSTRALIAN FAUNA

Mr MAKIN:HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

CENSUS AND ELECTORAL RETURNS

Mr BOWDEN:NEPEAN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WISE:Postmaster-General · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WISE:

QUESTION

WESTERN AUSTRALIAN SAVINGS BANK

Mr FOLEY:KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

SIR AUCKLAND GEDDES

Mr MARKS:WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

INVALID AND OLD-AGE PENSIONS

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

DUTY ON BANANAS

Mr McGRATH:BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

Mr GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

NAVAL MANOEUVRES

Mr MARKS:

Mr LAIRD SMITH:Minister for the Navy · DENISON, TASMANIA · NAT

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:

Mr LAIRD SMITH:

QUESTION

RETIREMENT OF MAJOR SWEETLAND

Mr MARR:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE:Assistant Minister for Defence · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

QUESTION

THE CANUNGRA SAW-MILLS

Mr MAKIN:

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

WHEAT POOL PAYMENT OF ADVANCE

Mr STEWART:WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE APPOINTMENTS

Mr GIBSON:CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

CITRUS CANKER

Mr MACKAY:LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

MESSRS. KIDMAN AND MAYOH’S SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT

Mr GREGORY:DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

FLINDERS ISLAND MAIL SERVICE

Mr WISE:NAT

QUESTION

PAPER

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr ATKINSON:Wilmot

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr ATKINSON:

Sir JOSEPH COOK:Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr Francis:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr Stewart:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr Richard Foster:

Mr ATKINSON:

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:Wakefield

Mr GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

House of Representatives
23 June 1921

Mr MAKIN:
HINDMARSH, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr BOWDEN:
NEPEAN, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WISE:
Postmaster-General · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr HECTOR LAMOND:
ILLAWARRA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr FOLEY:
KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr MARKS:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr McGRATH:
BALLAARAT, VICTORIA

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
Minister for the Navy · DENISON, TASMANIA · NAT

Mr MARR:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES

Sir GRANVILLE RYRIE:
Assistant Minister for Defence · NORTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr STEWART:
WIMMERA, VICTORIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr GIBSON:
CORANGAMITE, VICTORIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREGORY:
DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WISE:
NAT

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr ATKINSON:
Wilmot

Sir JOSEPH COOK:
Treasurer · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
Wakefield

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr ROBERT COOK:
INDI, VICTORIA · VFU; CP from 1920

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr CORSER:
WIDE BAY, QUEENSLAND · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr BAYLEY:
Oxley

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ANTI-SOC; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; LP from 1922; NAT from 1925