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House of Representatives
6 August 1919

7^th Parliament · 2^nd Session

LEAVE OF ABSENCE
QUESTION
- INCOME TAX RETURNS
QUESTION
- SEAMEN’S STRIKE
QUESTION
- RUNNING OF TRAMS
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH SHIPBUILDING SCHEME
QUESTION
- TAXATION DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- QUARANTINE STATION, NORTH TASMANIA
PROFITEERING : AMENDMENT 04? CONSTITUTION
QUESTION
- ECONOMIC COUNCIL
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN IMPERIAL FORGE
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIANS ENLISTED IN ENGLAND
BUTTER POOL
- Supervisioncharge
QUESTION
- REPORT BY EX-PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER
QUESTION
- QUARANTINE STATION, NEW SOUTH WALES
AUSTRALIA HOUSE
- Reported Strike
QUESTION
- CONSTRUCTION OE COUNTRY TELEPHONE LINES
QUESTION
- SALE OF COPPER
QUESTION
- WAR MEDALS
QUESTION
- WAR TROPHIES
QUESTION
- MAIL SERVICES
QUESTION
- WOMEN AT THE FRONT : BADGES
QUESTION
- FLINDERS NAVAL BASE
QUESTION
- NAVY DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- BADGE FOR WAR WORKERS
QUESTION
- CENSORSHIP
QUESTION
- WAR SERVICE HOMES
QUESTION
- INFLUENZA OUTBREAK IN INTERNEES’ CAMP
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH BANK
QUESTION
- INDUSTRIAL CRISIS
QUESTION
- MEDICAL ATTENDANCE FOR RETURNED SOLDIERS
QUESTION
- SOLDIERS’ OVERCOATS
DISFRANCHISEMENT OF SOLDIERS
ELECTORAL CLAIM FORMS
PAPERS
MORATORIUM BILL
ADJOURNMENT
- A.I.F. Badges - Nurses - Note and Stamp Printing Offices

Mr. Speaker (Hon. W. Elliot Johnson) took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 11250

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

Motion (by Mr. Tudor), by leave, agreed to -

That leave of absence for. two months be granted to the honorable member for Cook (Mr. J. H. Catts).

Motion, (by Mr. Watt), A>y leave, agreed to -

That the right honorable member for Bendigo (Mr. Hughes), the right honorable member for Parramatta (Sir Joseph Cook), and the honorable member for Flinders (Mr. Bruce) be granted leave of absence for one month.

page 11251

QUESTION

INCOME TAX RETURNS

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– In addressing a question to the Acting Prime Minister, I desire to express my pleasure at his return to the House, and venture the hope that he is fully restored to health. Is the honorable gentleman aware that there was a shortage of income tax return forms in many post-offices during the latter .part of July? Is he also aware that in consequence of the influenza epidemic some people were unable to furnish returns within the period fixed ? In view of these facts, will he take into consideration the advisableness of extending for one month the time within which returns may be made without incurring any penalty?

Mr WATT:
Treasurer · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

– In reply to the honorable member–

COMMONWEALTH SHIPBUILDING SCHEME

Statement by Viscount Jellicoe.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Has the Acting Prime Minister seen the report of a statement by Viscount’ Jellicoe that it was im. possible for him to ascertain the cost of a particular steam-ship built by the Commonwealth? As bearing on that point, may I also ask whether the honorable gentleman is yet able to fulfil his promise of a year ago to obtain a balance-sheet, prepared, riot by the departmental accountants, but by professional actuaries, in regard to the “Commonwealth shipping asset, and showing the profit and loss account of ships owned by the Commonwealth?

Mr WATT:
NAT

-I saw the statement attributed to Viscount Jellicoe in the Mel.bourne pr,ess, but have, learned enough of condensed reports to know that one- must, npt always depend entirely upon them.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– It was a very good1, peg on which to hang the further question.

Mr WATT:

– The honorable memberdoes not generally seek pegs ; his ingenuity produces them.

Mr-. Higgs. - And he is not always- here to- drive them in.

Mr WATT:

– But some honorable members do more by remaining here for one day than others do by attending thesittings of the House for a year. I shall have an opportunity next week to consult with Viscount Jellicoe on the question raised, and* will then know exactly what His Lordship meant. I may say now, however, that the Commonwealth is not. asintimately concerned with the matter as the public might be led to believe by the statements in the press. We have a contractual arrangement with the Government of New South Wales. As to the second part of the honorable member’s question, the balance-sheets are ready, and will be presented with the Budget.

page 11252

QUESTION

TAXATION DEPARTMENT

Appointment or Fourth Class Clerks

Mr TUDOR:
YARRA, VICTORIA

– Will the Acting Prime Minister ascertain whether it is possible to lay on the table of the Library the Public Service Commissioner’s file relating to the recent appointment of ten fourth class, clerks to the Taxation Department?

Mr WATT:
NAT

– I shall ascertain whether the Department has any objection to the file being laid on the Library table.

page 11252

QUESTION

QUARANTINE STATION, NORTH TASMANIA

Mr ATKINSON:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

– As the influenza scourge seems likely to last for some time, will the Minister for Trade and Customs take immediate steps to proclaim, a quarantine station in the north of Tasmania?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I shall be glad to Lave inquiries made.

page 11252

PROFITEERING : AMENDMENT 04? CONSTITUTION

Mi. MATHEWS - As honorable members are receiving communications from, representative bodies in- their electorates, in- regard to profiteering, and since we have evidence furnished by cablegrams, that in all countries Government action isbeing’ taken to deal with the subject, will, the Acting- Prime Minister state- whether the Government propose- to introduce- a-. Bil’l’ providing for a referendum of the people- bo -secure further legislative powersfor the- Commonwealth Parliament;, sothat we may deal- with profiteering in Aus? tralia ?’

Mr WATT:
NAT

– In. the Ministerial statement presented at the opening sitting. o£ the House this year, it was plainly shown that, in the view of the Government, theCommonwealth Parliament has not sufficient power to deal effectively with the problem. Since we have not been able bo give further consideration to the subject,. I am not in. a position to say at thisstage what -amendments- of the Constitution, if any, will be recommended to. the people by this Government.

page 11252

page 11253

AUSTRALIA HOUSE

QUESTION

WAR TROPHIES

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

– I wish to ask the Minister for Home and Territories, in view of the statement that, in the allocation of war trophies, consideration would be had to the State from which, the companies who had captured them had been recruited, and in view of the fact that the greatest war trophy that has been made available, namely, the 15-in. gun, was captured by a Queensland company, why it is suggested that it be placed in the gardens in Sydney!

Mr Austin Chapman:

– Why not send it to Canberra ?

Mr FINLAYSON:

– I regard the placing of the gun in Sydney as distinctly unfair to the Queensland soldiers.

Mr GLYNN:
Minister for Home and Territories · ANGAS, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– I think I told the press, on the morning when ‘the cable announcement was made, that the statement about placing the gun in Sydney was a mistake. Where the guns are landed they are kept temporarily, the permanent allocation depending on other considerations. This is’ really an Australian trophy, not pertain- ing to any particular State.

Mr Finlayson:

– Anywhere but Sydney!

page 11254

QUESTION

MAIL SERVICES

Cancellation op Trains.

Mr LECKIE:
INDI, VICTORIA

– Owing to the shortage of coal, in consequence of the seamen’s strike, train services have been cancelled throughout Victoria. There is a postal departmental regulation that, in the case of trains being cancelled, mails also may be cancelled. In order to prevent certain towns, some of them of over 1,000 inhabitants, being deprived of a daily mail, will the Postmaster-General gi-ve instructions that during the short time the trains will be cancelled this regulation is not to be interpreted too strictly, but that if there is involved only a few shillings a week, the daily mails must be continued?

Mr WEBSTER:
NAT

– The suggestion submitted by the honorable member, if applied to the States generally, would mean, not a few shillings, but a few thousand pounds a week. When the railway authorities are unable to run trains they do not deliver the goods, and no complaint is made, their attitude being taken for granted. On the other hand, the postal authorities, who have no other means of conveying mails, are expected by honorable members to act in a manner that would be detrimental to the good government of the Department.

page 11255

QUESTION

WOMEN AT THE FRONT : BADGES

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– Will the Assistant Minister for Defence consider the advisability of presenting a badge to women who went to the Front, and who were in the war zone, as something to indicate that, like the men, they have risked their lives?

Mr WISE:
NAT

– I shall submit the suggestion to the Acting Minister for Defence.

GERMAN INTERNEES.

Investigation bt Commission.

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Statements are being made publicly to the effect that the Commission which was appointed to hear the appeals of German internees against deportation, hear only the cases of . those who are possessed of means. This is to make the Commission a farce, and I ask the Acting Prime Minister to make inquiries.

Mr WATT:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917; LP from 1922; NAT from 1925

– I am not aware that such a statement has been made, and I do not believe that, if made, it is true. The Commission, is doing very unpleasant but necessary work with its usual ability. The members of the Commission are well known to honorable members; and I do not for one moment credit the statement made regarding them. However, I shall see what justification there is for such a statement, and see that every one concerned has an opportunity to put his case.

page 11255

QUESTION

FLINDERS NAVAL BASE

Removal from ‘ Williamstown.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Can the Acting Minister for the Navy inform the House at what date it is intended to remove the Naval Depot from Williamstown to Flinders Naval Base?

Mr POYNTON:
Honorary Minister · GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

– Of course, I could give the usual parliamentary answer that the depot will be removed as soon as arrangements can be made. The honorable member knows what work has yet to be done at Flinders Base, and until it is completed, and provision ma le for the accommodation of the men from Williamstown, the depot cannot be removed. It is impossible for me to say at what date the removal will take place.’

ADJOURNMENT (Formal).

Government Purchase and Sale of Cornsacks.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

– I have received from the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Sampson) an intimation that he desires to move the adjournment of the House to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, “ The purchase and sale of cornsacks by the Government.”

Five honorable ‘ members having risen in their places,

Question proposed.

Mr SAMPSON:
Wimmera

.- Last year, owing to the circumstances created by the war, the Government decided to purchase a supply of cornsacks for the wheat-growers. About 140,000 bales of sacks were purchased by the Government, who sold the sacks at fixed prices to the distributers ordinarily engaged in the trade, and also fixed the rates at which they could be retailed to the users. After last year’s requirements had been met, the Government were left with a surplus of over 31,000 bales, which they decided should be sold. On 24th February they circularized those who had distributed the cornsacks for the previous season, offering at 9s. 8d. per dozen 13,000 bales of the total surplus of 31,000 bales, and asking that offers for quantities be returned to the Department by the 3rd March. The terms were- cash within three days of allotment, payable at the Commonwealth Bank. The circular stated that the commitments of the Government, which would be about 20,000 bales, would be similarly offered at a later date. On 27th February the Cooperative Company of Western Australia made the following definite offer to the Government: -

These sacks were undoubtedly purchased ‘by your Government in the interests of the wheatgrowers, and not in the interests of the jute merchants, and, therefore, the interests of the growers must be protected when considering the best method of disposing of the quantity now under review.

Should jute merchants purchase, and the market for sacks appreciate, following the custom of previous years, the prices of these sacks, which would be the property of the merchants, would be increased accordingly, and the wheat-growers receive no benefit from this balance of the Government’s purchase.

The financial .position of the co-operative organizations does not permit them to purchase as suggested by the Prices Commissioner, as they would need .to tie up much more of their capital than would be expedient to them.

Bearing the foregoing du mind, and knowing the desire of your Government to protect the wheat-growers, we respectfully suggest that the co-operative organizations .handling jute in the various States be asked to sell the sacks to the farmers at a price to cover the present cost -to the Government, .plus interest, storage charges, and reasonable commission, payment to be made to the ‘Government,. say, after harvest, such payment to be guaranteed ‘by the co-operative organizations consenting to handle on these terms.

Then on the 3rd March, the Victorian Producers Co-operative Company, representing from 50 per cent, to 60 per cent, of the wheat-growers in this State, submitted this proposal to the Prices Commissioner -

We are prepared to sell the sacks to the farmers at a .price to cover the present cost to the Government, plus interest, storage charges, and reasonable commission, payment to be made to the Government, say, after harvest, such payment to be guaranteed by us.

In the matter of storage, we may be prepared to find storage accommodation, our object being to keep the cost ito the grower down to the lowest possible figure.

We are agreeable to start our organizing arrangements at once in the matter of their disposal.

To finance these sacks on the terms suggested by you would tie Up capital for so long that A would not he expedient at the present time.

– Will the honorable member do. me the justice of completing my answer to the question ?

Mr BLAKELEY:

– The honorable gentleman replied .that there was no Ring in Australia, and that, so far as his officials could ascertain, there was no foundation whatever for the rumour.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I admit that, frankly.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I accept the Minister’s statement that no definite offer of the’ kind was made.

I turn now to the requirements for the coming harvest. Having regard to the condition of the growing crops and the climatic peculiarities of this season, no nian would ‘be prepared to make a big gamble in cornsacks, nor would he ask any’ Government to do so. Trading is not the legitimate province of a Government, and certainly’ it is not within the province of a Government to gamble in the middle of a season, when prospects are uncertain. But I ask the Minister to confer with the managers of ea,ch of the State. Wheat Pools as to whether, for the coming harvest, the conditions relating to the use of bags cannot be liberalized. If cornsacks continue to mount in price as they have been doing lately, they will shortly be quoted at fi per dozen. Should heavy rains fall all over Australia, and be followed by a good spring, the next harvest will undoubtedly be a big one. I ask the Minister to confer with the State Ministers of Agriculture in regard to allowing the use for the time being of any reasonably sound bag.

The honorable member for Darling (Mr. Blakeley) made certain random (Statements regarding the use of secondhand cornsacks, without referring to any Pool in particular. But, when questioned, he said that his reference was to one particular season. In the No. 1 Pool, all bags in good condition were received. In that season, 1915-16,. Australia raised its record harvest, which has not been equalled in subsequent seasons. Therefore, new sacks and second-hand sacks were used, a dockage charge being made against the latter. In the No. 2 Pool, new sacks, were used, but “ brush “ sugar bags were utilized for wheat in some of the States. The conditions in regard to sacks are not uniform throughout the States, because Ministers of Agriculture have seen fit to make variations. In No. 3 and No. 4 Pools, only new cornsacks were used. There is a possibility of the wheat-growers experiencing a difficulty in getting, for the coming harvest, any sort of sacks, and I ask the Minister, acting in conjunction with the Ministers of Agriculture, to arrange for a liberalization of the terms under which cornsacks will be. made . available. If the Minister will make an early statement that all sound sacks that can reasonably contain wheat will be used, his action will have a steadying effect upon the market.

Mr Archibald:

– Regardless of the weight of the sack?

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– The 3-bushel. sack is of standard weight. Every thrifty wheat-farmer uses second-hand sacks for his own seed wheat. It is still possible for the Minister, by the means I have suggested, to give some relief to the farmers in a difficult season. If the coming harvest is good, the .producer will be in trouble, and the best counsel of the Federal and State authorities will be required to help him to get the necessary containers for his product.

Mr PIGOTT:
Calare

– I congratulate the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Sampson) on having brought this matter before the House, because his action will at least make the Government realize their responsibility to insure a supply of sacks for the coming harvest. Some definite pronouncement as to the intentions of the Government should be made at once by the Minister for Trade and Customs (Mr. Greene). The trade and the co-operative companies believe that the Government intend to buy cornsacks, and in consequence they are refraining from operating on the market. If the Government have any such intention, they should act at once.

The honorable member for Darling (Mr. Blakeley), speaking in regard to second-hand cornsacks, twitted honorable members on this side with hot having taken sufficient interest in the farmers. I have repeatedly urged the Government to allow farmers to use second-hand bags, and in reply to a question asked by me on the 25th January, 1918, the Prime Minister (Mr. Hughes) said -

The Wheat Pool, however, determined that wheat should not be received in second-hand sacks,, which would go into the Pool. The Board has no objection to millers receiving new wheat in second-hand sacks, as this would not in any way endanger the stacks of the Pool.

– No ; provision is made for the automatic return to the Commonwealth Treasury of all money advanced for this scheme. I notice that, in some of the wheat-growing centres of New South Wales, the silos are already completed, but in other districts they are not even commenced.. I ask the Minister to endeavour to induce the Governments of Victoria., South Australia, and Western Australia to speed up the construction of silos, and -so relieve the difficulties which the farmers will have to face owing to the scarcity of sacks.

Mr. .LYNCH (Werriwa) (4.50].- As the representative of a large wheatgrowing -district, and as a wheat-grower myself, I feel that if one thing more than another ‘has ‘been ‘brought out into bold relief by the discussion of this very .important subject, it is the fact that our Constitution is imperfect, or that Ministers ‘have been careless. But notwithstanding the limitation on the power of the Government to afford protection to the producers, I would like to see them strain whatever power they do possess. I have no sympathy with honorable members who complain of inaction on the part of “the Government in connexion with this matter, and yet will solidly oppose any proposal to extend the constitutional powers of -the Commonwealth Parliament, though such extension would enable our Ministers to protect the producers against the monstrous robberies ito which it;hey have .been subjected in the past, and .which will otherwise be perpetrated in -the future. The honor able member for Wannon (Mr. (Rodgers’) has pointed >out that -the chief projection the farmers will :have against being robbed in the future will be the fact that they -will have nothing to Tie robbed of .on -account of .the severity of the present season. However, I think the farmers will .pull through this year, but if they have anything like a normal crop they will be called upon to pay from 15s. to 20s. per dozen for bags. Something might be done to relieve -the situation by permitting the use of second-hand bags; but even if silos are ready the majority of the farmers will still be compelled to buy the usual quota of bags, unless they are situated very close ‘to railway stations. The -growers may project themselves by cutting -their crops and stacking, with a view to -thrashing at a later ,date in the -hope that the Ring of robbers, finding that !the anticipated -quantity of bags will -not be purchased, may release them at a slightly “lower price. If that anticipation is not realized a safeguard will be provided .against drought conditions, because a .lot of valuable fodder will be stacked instead of going to waste.

I have always held the belief that the people’s Government should have the constitutional power to control a matter of this kind, and that it should always be willing to do so. Honorable members on the Ministerial side of the House seem to be anxious to get rid of Government responsibility, in commercial activities. They .are opposed to interference with the ordinary channels of trade. “However, one lesson the war has taught us is that however conservative Governments may be in practice or tradition, they have recently -been compelled ;to interfere in a very radical way with the ordinary channels of .business, ear : see nations perish in the struggle .from which we are just emerging. Our task is ,to preserve our industries, particularly the wheatgrowing industry, and we should do all we possibly can, even hampered by an imperfect Constitution, to, protect the farmers by close association with the State Governments, and by making financial advances to them. The lesson that the loss on the sale of the’ residue sacks teaches us is that a more perfect Constitution should be sought which would enable the Government <to protect not only wheat producers but other producers from similar ‘robberies. Even if the surplus sacks had been sold to .co-operative bodies the chances are that .the .poorest and most struggling classes of (producers would, have derived very little benefit, because usually the man who is a member of a co-operative association employs share farmers. “It would be hard -to expect him to give >his share-farmers the benefit .of his purchases at the lower price. The small man has mostly to buy at the average market conditions, »and .in the -near .’future ‘those are likely to >be ‘Very discouraging to wheatgrowers.

It ‘is idle to -condemn ““Ministers, especially -.When the .condemnation comes from >honora”ble members .Who would oppose the use -of Government ‘powers >to interfere -.with any form of trade. ‘ W ought to learn the lesson that the exercise df Government powers is essential for the progress and .development of the farming industry, and that if we are to have that progress we hope for, and which alone will enable us ‘ to meet our obligations, the people must be asked to clothe the Commonwealth Government with those powers. “In the meantime, I hope that Ministers will .co-operate with the State Governments to .remedy., and .as far as possible remove, the wrong that has been done “to wheat-growers.

Mr WEST:
East Sydney

.- E-very time .1 .hear mention made .of farmers any heart almost bleeds., it .is known -to most men :iu cities, particularly commercial men, that the trade in bags is a monopoly, and that the only ;people who can cope with this monopoly are the Government, “lt is necessary *for the ‘Government and their advisers to ta’ke some steps to :provide for -the forthcoming harvest, that is to say, .some steps .other than the preparation, of silos, ‘for it is only by .having consideration for primary production that we .can tackle :the important economic and financial questions of the day. Several years ago I -pointed out how necessary it was to be prepared for Peace. For one thing the Government should have taken effective means to protect primary production .in order to bring about a reduction in the price of one of the necessaries of life. However, nothing was done in the matter, and now the farmers are at the mercy of those gentlemen in Calcutta who fix the price of bags for the whole world.

Debate interrupted under standing order ‘119.

page 11269

QUESTION

NAVY DEPARTMENT

Purchase of Disinfector

Mr MATHEWS:

asked the Acting Minister for the Navy, upon notice -

Whether it is a fact that an imported sterilizer is to be .purchased for the Port Western Naval Base?
If so, is it -a fact that Australian manufactured articles are being used at St. Vincent’s Hospital, the Melbourne Benevolent Asylum, Base Hospital, Mont Park Hospital, and Jervis Bay, and are giving satisfaction?

Mr POYNTON:
NAT

– Tenders were called for a disinfector, and are under consideration. The Works and Railways Department has designed and installed a number .of Austr,allam-made disinfectors and, where -possible, favours ‘the use of same. .The honorable -member may rely upon ‘the Australian manufactured machines receiving the fullest consideration.

page 11269

QUESTION

BADGE FOR WAR WORKERS

Mr MACKAY:
LILLEY, QUEENSLAND

asked -the Assistant Minister for Defence, upon notice - “Whether the Defence ‘Department has yet arrived -at a decision in reference to the issue of an emblem to honorary war .workers, .such as ‘town and shire ‘clerks, who have .rendered valuable .service: as voluntary recruiting officers throughout the war?

Mr WISE:
NAT

– The answer to the , hon.orable member’s question is as follows: -

It is realized that a large number of persons throughout the Commonwealth have been most zealous nd “indefatigable in ‘their efforts to .assist voluntary recruiting during the war. The ‘Government is -very ‘grateful for the work which has “‘been done in Wis direction, ‘and, consequently, the question off the possibility *df recognising it .in some way -has been very earnestly considered.

After weighing all the .circumstances, it is felt that the difficulties of insuring that -such an emblem should reach all who deserve it, are insurmountable, and it has been decided, with regret, to abandon the proposal.

” POST AND TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT.

Central Telephone Exchange - Pay of Employees Serving with Australian -Imperial Force - Employment of Returned Soldiers as Telephone Mechanics - Islington Post-office.

Mr FENTON:
for “Mr. Brennan,

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

What was the total number of subscribers to the Central Telephone Exchange at the end of 1913?
What .is the number at present?
What was the number of telephonists employed in the earlier year, and what is the present number ?
ls it .a fact that Jive years ago> the number of subscribers per telephonist during ordinary business hours was from 100 to 12Q, while at the present time the usual number is 160 - the apparatus and type of switchboard being the :same?
if not, will .the Minister state the proportion as nearly as .possible?
Has the increase in subscribers to suburban exchanges been proportionately -greater or less .than the . increa.se -of subscribers to the Central Exchange?

Mr WEBSTER:
NAT

– To answer the questions as put by-the honorable member would, I fear, be misleading, because the equipment and conditions at the Central Telephone Exchange were so different in 1913 from what they are to-day that no ‘ reasonable comparison oan be made. Moreover, the load of a telephonist is not gauged by the number of subscribers served, but by the number of calls attended to, and, further, a comparison to be of value should be made under normal, and not epidemic conditions.

Mr WEST:
for Mr. Yates

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

Seeing that the report of the Postmaster.General shows such splendid results, is he prepared to grant out of the profits made such a sum as will make up the difference between the military and civil pay of the 3,726 employees who enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force, as lias <been done in the various States?
If not, why not?

Mr WEBSTER:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

No.
Officers of the Postmaster-General’s. Department must necessarily be treated ‘in the same way as other officers of the Commonwealth Service in this regard.

Mr RILEY:
for Mr. Yates

asked the Postmaster-General, upon notice -

Whether any provision has been made to find employment for those returned soldiers mho have, by vocational training, qualified themselves for the position of telephone mechanics?
If so, when- will such positions be available for qualified applicants who have recently, passed the necessary examination?

Mr WEBSTER:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes, by dispensing with the services of temporary mechanics .who were not returned soldiers, and toy giving the latter preference of employment whenever additional assistance is required. ‘
See answer to No. 1.

On the 31st ultimo, the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates) asked me, as Postmaster-General, the following question : -

Whether he approved of. the closing of the Islington Post-office in South Australia?
Is it by the Minister’s instruction that only one delivery now takes place wherehitherto there have been two?
Is it the intention to re-open this office?
If not, why not?

I gave an interim answer, but am now able to furnish the following reply: -

The case referred to was dealt with, under powers delegated to him, by the Deputy PostmasterGeneral, Adelaide, who reports as follows : -

Owing to the resignation of the Allowance Postmaster and the impossibility of obtaining a suitable successor, approval was given for closing the office on 31st’ May last, but inquiries were to be continued with a view of obtaining a suitable postmaster. Meanwhile, in order to obviate public inconvenience as far as possible, arrangements were made to install continuous public telephone facilities and to< issue a licence to sell postage . stamps at Phillips’ Store, Lower North-road, Islington,, also to erect a letter receiver at the corner of Charles-street and Lower North-road.
Prior to the closing of the office, mails were exchanged between Islington and Adelaide twice daily, except on Saturday, when there was only one exchange, but only one delivery was made daily by the postman, and this is still being effected from the Prospect office.
It is intended to re-open the office as soon as a suitable person is available to conduct it.
See answer to No. 3.

page 11270

QUESTION

CENSORSHIP

Mr WEST:
for Mr. ‘ Finlayson

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Whether any regulation under the War Precautions Act still exists which prevents the publication of any item of information regarding the war which was prohibited during the war?
If so, will any such regulation be cancelled, and when’

Mr GROOM:
Minister for Works and Railways · DARLING DOWNS, QUEENSLAND · NAT

– Regulation 28 makes it an offence to publish certain matter of the nature therein specified. It is not considered advisable under the present conditions to repeal that regulation, but steps are being taken to repeal 28a, relating to the submission to the Censor of certain matter before publication.

page 11270

QUESTION

WAR SERVICE HOMES

Mr JOHN THOMSON:
for Mr. Hector Lamond

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Repatriation, upon notice -

Will immediate attention be given to applications from returned soldiers for assistance to purchase homes already constructed?
In determining priority, will preference be given to applications from soldiers (o) who have served in the trenches; (6) who have the longest serv.icc? .
Is the classification applied daily or over an extended period?
How soon after an application is lodged may the applicant expect a decision?

Mr POYNTON:
NAT

– The Commissioner supplies the following information: -

This course is being followed.
It is not thought that this is the most equitable method of deciding priority, as other factors have to be taken into consideration, as, for instance, married men with families, as against men desirous of marrying.
Daily.
It is not possible to say definitely, in view of the fact that in .many cases delay is caused by the applicant not correctly completing his application, and by not supplying the necessary particulars to enable a decision to be given.

page 11271

QUESTION

INFLUENZA OUTBREAK IN INTERNEES’ CAMP

Mr RILEY:
for Mr. Yates

asked trie Assistant Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Whether he will lay on the table of the House, or make available to members, the report on influenza, shortage of rations, clothing, and medicines handed to Mr. Justice Harvey (Official Visitor, German Concentration Camp, Holdsworthy) on 18th July, 1919, by a committee of the Holdsworthy Camp?

Mr WISE:
NAT

– No such report has yet been received from the Official Visitor.

page 11271

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH BANK

Mr STORY:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

-(for Mr. Fleming) asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Does the purchase of an expensive site in Collins-street mean the transference of the head office of the Commonwealth Bank from Sydney to Melbourne?

Mr POYNTON:
NAT

– No.

page 11271

QUESTION

INDUSTRIAL CRISIS

Transport of Coal from New South Wales.

Mr CHANTER:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Leader of the House, upon notice -

With reference to the suggestion made to him to communicate with the State Govern ments with a view to coal from New South Wales being forwarded to the Tocumwal railway station for transference into Victoria, will he inform the House what is being done -in this matter; and, if coal is being so forwarded, what is the quantity sent daily, and whether that amount cannot be largely increased?

Mr GROOM:
NAT

– The Government of Victoria has been communicated with on the matter, and I now furnish a copy of the reply which has been received from the State Premier regarding the matter. It is as follows: -

Premier’s Office,

Melbourne, 2nd August, 1919. ‘

Dear Sir, .

Adverting to your letter of the 25th ultimo, suggesting that coal should be secured from New South Wales via Tocumwal, as well as vid Wodonga, I desire to inform you that the Victorian Railways Commissioners have already given consideration to this matter.

The Commissioners now report that the facilities available at Wodonga permit of the transfer of 2,000 tons of coal per day from New South Wales to Victorian trucks; but at Tocumwal the existing accommodation is so limited that it would not be practicable to deal with more than from 250 to 300 tons per day at that station. They have, however, been in daily communication by telegraph with the Railways Commissioners of New South Wales for some days past in an endeavour to -have from 250 to 300 tons railed vid Tocumwal.

Advice has’ been received from New South Wales that arrangements are being made to consign coal through Tocumwal, which will mean that it will now be practicable to handle so much more coal in the aggregate.

Yours faithfully, (Sgd.) H. S. W. Lawson,

Premier.

The Honorable the Acting Prime Minister of the Commonwealth, Melbourne.

page 11271

QUESTION

MEDICAL ATTENDANCE FOR RETURNED SOLDIERS

Mr POYNTON:
NAT

– On the 23rd ultimo, the honorable member for Wannon (Mr. Rodgers) asked a question of the Assistant Minister for Defence regarding medical attendance for returned soldiers. The Assistant Minister promised to bring the matter under the notice of the Repatriation Department as the Department concerned, and I (have now been furnished with the following information : -

The’ Repatriation Department recognises as its- responsibility disabilities due to or aggravated by war service only, and treatment has always been available, either under the Defence or Repatriation Department, since the declaration, of hostilities.

All hospitals have been available to discharged soldiers suffering from war disabilities, and there was not, at any time, need for expenditure on’ the men-‘s part.

In certain approved oases, refunds have been made in respect to treatment of urgent cases.

There must be adequate control and supervision of expenses incurred in connexion with medical treatment.

The Department cannot acknowledge private contracts with outside practitioners for obvious reasons.

Local medical officers have been attached to all. country Local Committees, and treatment is available- in all parts of the Commonwealth.

Contracts have been entered into with practically every country hospital throughout Australia.

The Department provides through- any pharmacist drugs and dressings where prescribed for war. disabilities.

Discharged, soldiers, on. application to the Repatriation Department for treatment for war disabilities, are referred to military hospitals where continuity of treatment is essential.

The Department cannot accept responsibility for disabilities not due to war service.

page 11272

QUESTION

SOLDIERS’ OVERCOATS

Mr WISE:
NAT

– On the 23rd ultimo, the honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. Finlayson) asked the following question : -

In view of the statement made in. the House last week that returned soldiers would be allowed to retain their overcoats, and in view of the fact that a soldier who applied to Victoria Barracks, in Brisbane, as per letter in the Daily Standard of 16th July, was informed that the issue of greatcoats was not applicable to demobilized soldiers, will the Assistant Minister for Defence issue such instructions as will leave no further doubt that the issue does extend to demobilized soldiers?

I am now able to furnish the honorable member with the following information s -

Definite instructions have recently been issued by Head-Quarters that all soldiers returned from service abroad for demobilization are to be permitted to retain their greatcoats,, and those returned soldiers previously demobilized, who handed in their coats, are to receive a re-issue.

On the 31st ultimo, the honorablemember for Hunter (Mr. Charlton) asked the following question: -

Is the Assistant Minister for Defence awarethat since the statement made by him in the House to the- effect that overcoats which returned soldiers had: been obliged to- hand in to the Department- would be restored to them-, many applications for their, return have been, made to the Department in- Sydney, but that the soldiers have been: informed by the military authorities there that they have receivedno’ instructions on the subject from HeadQuarters ?

I am now able to furnish the honorablemember with the following information : -

In replying to a question by the honorable member for Eden-Monaro (Mr. Chapman) ont 11th July that greatcoats would be re-issued toreturned soldiers in cases in which coats had been withdrawn on discharge, I stated that “ action in this direction will be taken as soon as the necessary arrangements can be made ti> deal with applications.”

Previous to the above date, viz., on 9th July, all District Commandants were informed” by telegram that returned troops were to beallowed to retain their greatcoats, and on 16th July full instructions were communicated to District Commandants regarding the reissueof greatcoats to those discharged returned soldiers from whom same had been withdrawn.

The statements attributed to the Sydney military authorities were apparently made prior to receipt of the. memorandum dated 16th July from Head-Quarters.

page 11272

DISFRANCHISEMENT OF SOLDIERS

Mr GLYNN:
NAT

– On the 30th ultimo, the honorable member for Batman (Mr. Brennan) asked whether I would have inquiries made into a report that soldiers on returning from active service found, that their names had been struck off the electoral rolls by reason of their having been out of the country for more than sis months, and asked me to make inquiries and to see that soldiers absent on active service were not disfranchised. I said that I thought there was some misapprehension’, and have now to state that-

The names of soldiers who enlisted for active service abroad have since the commencement of the war been obtained from the Defence Department and furnished to the electoral officers throughout the Commonwealth. The divisional returning officers have been instructed to identify the names on the rolls to the fullest practicable extent, and to preserve existing enrolments. On his return to Australia each soldier, whether enrolled or not, is communicated with and advised of the action to “be taken in order to secure enrolment, if not already enrolled, ‘ or if enrolled, the adjustment of his enrolment in the event of his changing his place of living.

page 11273

ELECTORAL CLAIM FORMS

Mr GLYNN:
NAT

– On the 30th ultimo, the honorable member for Barrier (Mr. Considine) asked if I was aware that an alteration had been made in the form, of electoral claim cards, which, he stated, now called upon .applicants for enrolment to give the date, year, and place of birth. In many cases, the honorable member said, this information could not be given. I promised to inquire into the matter, and I now furnish him with the following reply: -

Where an electoral claim is not in order by reason of a formal defect the Electoral Registrar is required, by his instructions, to communicate with the claimant, advise him of the error or omission, and secure the necessary correction. This course is followed where a claimant omits to furnish the information referred to by the honorable member. It is unusual for a claimant to be unable to state the exact date of his birth, although he may have been bom abroad. The form of claim requires him to declare that the whole of the statements made therein, including date of birth, are true to the best of his knowledge and belief.

page 11273

PAPERS

The f ollowing papers were presented : -

Women in Industry - Report of the (Imperial) War Cabinet Committee. (Paper presented to the British Parliament.)

Public. Service Act - Promotion of P. E. Butler, Department of the Treasury.

page 11273

MORATORIUM BILL

In Committee (Consideration resumed from 1st August, vide page 11212) :

Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to.

Clause 4 -

During the continuance of the War Precautions (Moratorium) Regulations, the GovernorGeneral may make Regulations. . . . . Provided that nothing in this subsection shall authorize the making of a regulation extending . . . the time for repayment

. for more than twelve months after the prescribed date.

Mr GROOM:
Minister for Works and Railways and Acting Attorney-General · Darling Downs · NAT

– I move -

That the words “ for more than twelve months after the prescribed date,” lines 7-8, be left out.

– That matter is dealt with in a subsequent part of the Bill, :and I shall refer to it later on. According to the amount involved, application may be made either to the High Court, or the

Supreme, County, or District Court of a State, or local Court.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 5 to 7 agreed to.

First schedule -

The War Precautions (Moratorium) Regulations.

( 1 ) Notwithstanding anything contained in these regulations, the time for repayment of the principal sum secured by a mortgage to which these regulations apply …. shall be, by force of this regulation, extended to a date within the month which is specified in the second columnof the said table opposite to such period.

The prescribed date for repayment shall be that day in the prescribed month for repay ment which corresponds to the day of themonth which would but for these regulations be or have been the due date for repayment:

Mr SAMPSON:
Wimmera

– I should like to review the suggestionI made during the second-reading debate, that, as a compromise, the first prescribed month for repayment in connexion with the mortgages dealt with in the first schedule should be extended from August, 1919, to February, 1920. I understood the Acting AttorneyGeneral (Mr. Groom) to say, on the motion for the second reading of the Bill, that it would not be advisable to extend to any considerable extent the prescribed dates, inasmuch as such extensions might prove to be unconstitutional. We find, however, that provision is made in this schedule for individual cases of hardship to be brought before a Court of justice, and for the Court, in certain circumstances, to extend the dates of repayment. If such an action on the part of a Court would be constitutional, why should it not be constitutional for this Parliament to extend for six months the first date of repayment prescribed in the schedule? If there are no constitutional barriers in the way, such an extension would give the people concerned six months’ breathing time in which to make arrangements for meeting their obligations. Although there has been some notice of the intention of the Government to introduce this Bill, it is now before us in the very month fixed for the repayment of moneys secured bymorgage which, but for the regulations made under the Act, would have been payable on 1st January, 1915. I do not think the position in regard to these mortgages is as serious as some honorable members would have us believe. Mr. Laughton, the Victorian Government Statistician, has supplied me with a return of mortgages, liens, and releases for the State of Victoria covering a period of twelve years, which shows that the circumstances of the war have not interfered to the extent anticipated with the taking out of new mortgages and the dischargeof old ones.

Mr Tudor:

– Have all those to be registered ?

Mr SAMPSON:

– They are not all registered, but most are. I take the number and the amounts represented for

– I have heard nothing to make me alter my view in the announcement I made that I intended to move an amendment in Committee. -I move - :

That the figures “ 1919 “ in the first line of the sliding scale in regulation 13 be left out with a view to insert in lieu- thereof the figures “1920.”

The honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. -Archibald) was right in saying that we are not in a normal condition to-day. Not only have we passed through the greatest war in the world’s history; we have had imposed on us the greatest financial strain. Look at the enormous sum of money which the people in Great Britain have provided for the purpose of winning the war, and one would scarcely have been credited if he had .predicted that the people of Australia would be able to put up the cash that has been subscribed for our war loans. A considerable percentage of the money advanced on mortgage in Australia is . English capital. English capitalists had their agents all over Australia, because the rate of interest here was at least 1-J per cent, higher than it was in Great Britain. That state of affairs has now altered. Money is as dear in England to-day as it is here.

Mr Groom:

– How much English money is invested in Australia?

Mr MCWILLIAMS:

– It is impossible to arrive at the amount; but no one knows better than the honorable member that there are agents in all the States who have been loaning English money. A considerable portion of that money will be called up for investment in England. We must not lose sight of the fact that the funds available in savings banks, building societies, and other institutions have been depleted to some extent by money having gone into war loans. If it had not been for these war loans, that capital would have been available for investment in mortgages. We have heard a great deal about the consideration that the money lender has shown to the borrower. I have received a letter from a Melbourne solicitor. I do not know him, but it is one of a number of letters which have come to mie since the debate took place in this chamber last week. This is a portion of his .letter -

In August, 1915, a young -nian desirous of enlisting renewed his existing mortgage for :four years falling, due on 1st August, 1919. He went to the war. He was demobilized in -June, 1919. He has paid up his interest punctually. He has now been called upon summarily to pay the principal. ‘ The mortgagee says, “ I want -my money; I can do better with it.”

The money lender comes down and puts the pistol at the head of a man who has been away fighting for him. Of course, he cannot do it legally, because the soldier is protected for an’other six months. Rut if we pass this Bill, the - pistol will be put -at the heads of thousands of men who are living in their homes to-day all over Australia. The mortgagee will *ay, “ ‘I want my .money.; I can do better -with it.” Of course, he can do better with it. But when people ‘talk of the enormous : obligations conferred on the borrower by the money lender, do not let the other position be ‘lost sight of. If a man took advantage of the moratorium, his interest immediately advanced from 4 per cent, or 4£ per cent, to 6 per cent. During the whole of the period of the moratorium the lender has been receiving the benefit of ‘that increased rate.

The honorable member for Wilmot (Mr. Atkinson) has put my case in a nutshell. Granted there may be individual cases of hardship among .men who have been sitting down drawing interest, what, are those cases compared with the cases in which the pistol may be put at the heads of men in the city or in the country, .and the demand made, “ I want my money; I can do better with it”? The figures given by the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Sampson) are worth nothing i’f they do not .go further, .and (give the .amount .of existing mortgages on the real estate of Victoria.

Mr Sampson:

– Multiply by five. .That will .give £50,000,000 .for Victoria.

Mr McWILLIAMS:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · REV TAR; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; CP from 1920; IND from 1928

– That .is a rough-and-ready guess, but my ‘figures are a great deal more. .According to Mr. Knibbs, the real estate of Australia is worth £1,100^00,000. As a large .portion .of the properties df Queensland and

New South Wales are .leasehold lands, whereas practically the whole of the estates of Victoria are freehold, the percentage of freehold in Victoria is considerably larger than the percentage in New South Wales, and. is’ relatively very much higher than the percentage in Queensland or Western Australia. I think that we can fairly set down the value of the real estate in Victoria at about £368,000,000, or a third of the total value of. the real estate of Australia. The honorable member for Wimmera says that the amount on mortgage in Victoria is about £50,000,000 ; but one glance will show that it must be considerably higher. I do not go back on the figures I. gave the other day. The more I think of them and go into them, the .more convinced .1 am that there are encumbrances “in one shape or another on . 50 .per cent, .df .the real estate of Australia.

Sir Robert Best:

– Ridiculous ! 3£r. MCWILLIAMS. - I think I am fairly right. With overdrafts, ;loans .unregistered loans, registered mortgages, and other forms of indebtedness, my estimate of 50 per cent, is much closer than the figures .of the honorable member for Wimmera, namely, £50sOO.Q,00.0 worth on mortgage out of a .real estate worth £368,000,000.

M.t. ;Sampson. - The honorable member has no data to go on. I have the .figures of the Government Statistician.

Mr McWILLIAMS:
FRANKLIN, TASMANIA · REV TAR; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917; CP from 1920; IND from 1928

– I do not accept the honorable member’s figures; but, for the sake of argument, let us say that there is £50,000,000 on mortgage on the real estate of Victoria. Well, a considerable proportion of that amount will come under this Moratorium ‘Bill.

Sir Robert Best:

– A comparatively small proportion of it will.

Mr MCWILLIAMS:

– If, as -the ‘honorable member for Wimmera says, £50,000,000 represents the amount of mortgages on the real -estate of Victoria, the .mortgages which .are .not under .the moratorium -are not very small in .number.

Mr Groom:

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– This suggests Bolshevism.

Mr McWILLIAMS:

– There is no Bolshevism associated with a proposal to allow mortgagees to continue to get 6 per cent. for their money. When a man talks of 8 per cent. he is getting fairly close to usury. The man who is prepared to take advantage of the misfortunes of another arising from the war is not deserving of much sympathy. I have given this matter very careful consideration, aud am convinced that if the enormous financial dam, which, by means of the moratorium we have been very properly building up since 1916, be destroyed, a flood of financial disaster will follow. I am pleading for thousands of men in the State of which I am a representative, who have been brought almost face to face with financial ruin as the result of the war, and I earnestly urge the Government to accept my amendment.

Tudor. - I desire to obtain from the Minister some information relating to an earlier part of the schedule before the amendment is put.

The CHAIRMAN (Hon J M Chanter:
RIVERINA, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Then I shall refrain for the present from stating the question.

Sitting suspended from 6.30 to7.45p.m.

Mr FENTON:
Maribyrnong

.- The honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Tudor) was about to ask the Minister whether the Bill limited the rate of interest.

Mr GROOM:
Minister for Works and Railways and Acting Attorney-General · Darling Downs · NAT

– Paragraph 7 of regulation 4 of the first schedule makes provision regarding interest rates as follows : -

In any case where after the due date for repayment of the principal sum or any part thereof, the principal sum or part remains unpaid, the time for repayment of the principal

Bum or part shall, unless and until an application for leave is dealt with by the Court under this regulation, be by force of these Regulations extended upon the terms that interest shall continue to be payable at the close of the same intervals of time as are provided by the mortgage with respect to the interest thereby secured, or, if no provision is so made, then quarterly, and . at the following rate : -

in the case of a mortgage of which the principal sum or unpaid part does not exceed Two thousand pounds - the rate provided in the mortgage, or the rate of six per centum per annum, whichever is the less ; and
in the case of a mortgage of which the principal sum or unpaid part exceeds Two thousand pounds - the rate provided in the mortgage, or six per centum per annum, whichever is the greater;

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– Quite so; but we cannot go faT wrong in accepting the compromise suggested. We are always anxious and pleased to hear the honorable member, who, with his brilliant intellect, places a case so clearly before us.

Mr GROOM:
Minister for Works and Railways and Acting Attorney-General · Darling Downs · NAT

– I have given further consideration to the suggestions made this afternoon. It is correct, as was stated by the honorable member for Kooyong (Sir Robert Best), that the longer the period of the moratorium is extended the nearer is the approach to the period at which, it might be contended that this legislation is not a valid exercise of the defence powers.

If the suggestion made by the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Mcwilliams) were adopted, the period of protection would be very considerably extended. I have drafted an amendment which, I hope, will be acceptable as a careful attempt to keep within our constitutional powers, and at the same time do what is reasonable and just. It has been suggested that we should, if possible, extend the moratorium to protect farmers up to the period of the next harvest. That will mean an extension of six months, as against twelve months asked for by the honorable member for Franklin. The amendment which I have drafted will provide that mortgages which would have fallen due before the 1st January, 1915, will be extended till 20th February; mortgages due between 1st January and 31st December, 1915, will be due in March, 1920; mortgages due between 1st January and 31st December, 1916, will be due in April, 1920; mortgages due between 1st January and 31st December, 1917, will be due in May, 1920 ; mortgages due between 1st January, and 31st December, 1918, will be due in June, 1920; and mortgages due between 1st January, 1919, and the proclamation of the termination of the war will fall due in July, 1920. The prescribed date will be 31st July, 1920, instead of 30th June, so that we shall extend the period one month longer as regards later mortgages, and protect the earlier mortgages until February, 1920, or until after the harvest season.

Mr Jowett:

– Do you mean the end of February?

Mr GROOM:

– No. If a mortgage would have fallen due on, say, the 10th February, 1915, it will now be due on 10th March, 1920. There must be some specific date. I think this amendment will reasonably meet the views of honorable members as expressed this afternoon, I ask the honorable member for Franklin to withdraw his amendment in order to allow me to move the one I have indicated.

Mr MCWILLIAMS:
Franklin

– I am prepared to withdraw my amendment in order to allow the Minister to submit the new table, but I must test the feeling of the Committee as to my amendment.

Mr Groom:

– The honorable member can move hie amendment on the new table, and in that way raise the issue.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr GROOM:
Minister for Works and Railways and Acting Attorney-General · Darling Downs · NAT

– I move -

That the table included in paragraph 13 be left out, and the following inserted in lieu thereof: -

Dr MALONEY:
Melbourne

.- I am glad the Minister has seen fit to grant at least half of what the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Mcwilliams) has asked for, but an extension for the full twelve months would be much better. We must not forget that within the next two or three months another loan of £25,000,000 will be asked of the people of Australia, and this Bill, I fear, will affect that proposition. I would like to see some provision made that not more than a certain percentage, say, 10 per cent., of the capital advanced, could be demanded, and that upon payment of that percentage the mortgagor could secure an extension for, say, three months. In my opinion, we are approaching a crisis. Hyndman, in Commercial Crises of the Nineteenth Century, declares that there is generally a boom, followed by a financial crisis,- every ten or thirteen years. The signs of a boom ate - increases in rents, property values, and prices of commodi ties. We have all the signs of a boom* at present, and, in my opinion, the Government, in this Bill, though not designedly, are about to precipitate a crisis which will interfere very materially with the success of the Peace Loan. What will happen in February next if £50,000,000 or £100,000,000, lent on mortgage is suddenly called up? What will be the position of those who, although’ they owe money on mortgage, desire to help their country by subscribing to this loan? Interest rates are advancing. One day this week as much as 7 per cent, was demanded on splendid security, with a provision that the whole of the loan money was to be spent in the erection of buildings, and every progress payment had to be authorized by the architect. The present conditions carry me back to the days of the boom period, which was so disastrous to a great number of people, though many who could not then meet their obligations have since risen to high rank and position in this city. I want, if possible, to avoid a repetition of that experience. What happened in England’ when the Banking Act had to be suspended over the Baring crisis? Baring Brothers were the only company that could compete with the great Rothschild combination, and Englishmen naturally felt proud of that great house, which had just floated Guinness’ brewery, and had beaten the Rothschild combination in financing the Manchester - Ship Canal. Everything then seemed to be all plain sailing when trouble occurred. Hyndman states -

The bank rate of discount was rapidly advancing.

We know that is occurring in Australia today. The great joint stock banks were calling in their loans. The banks here are doing this at the present moment. By the Associated Banks orders have been sent out that the account of any one with a small overdraft must be in credit, one week out of the month. That means calling in the overdraft, and the banks are probably justified in doing this, because, remembering the crash of the land boom, they are seeking to prevent a recurrence of it -

Gold was flowing. out from the Bank of England -

Gold has been flowing out of our bank, but luckily it is flowing into the Treasury - which itself was reported to hold £4,000,000 of Barings’ acceptances; and a fourth suspension of the Bank Act of 1844 was regarded as inevitable if matters were allowed to take their ordinary course.

Then it was that the Bank of England was assisted by the Bank of France and the Bank of Germany to the extent of over £3,000,000-

A guarantee fund was formed, in which the Bank of England took the lead, and every bank or firm of any note in the city joined, to insure the meeting of the acceptance of Baring Brothers and Co. to the extent of £21,000,000; gold to the amount of £3,000,000 was borrowed by the Bank of England, through the Rothschilds, from the Bank of France, and more was obtained from Russia; the Barings’ ordinary business “-as turned into a limited company, and ser. ral other important firms went into a sort of limited liquidation. It was all thought to be a great stroke of genius at the time, and Mr. Lidderdale practically received the thanks of the Government, and was presented with the freedom of the city of London.

We have had a boom during the war years. According to the Bulletin weekly issues, there is not a financial institution in Australia but has shown increased assets and dividends, and has been able to make so much profit by a system of hiding, or smothering up, its dividends by increasing its capital that it has really shown, on paper, a formidable advance in financial success. Never was there any equal to it in the land boom period. If dividends had been paid upon the original capital, they would have gone up to 60, or even 100 per cent. We ought to pass ai law that no dividends shall exceed 10 per cent., and that all profits, after allowing for a dividend of 10 per cent., shall be handed to the nation to meet the war debt. I made the same suggestion in the State House in the month following the land boom. It was received with jeers and sneers, but every man ‘who jeered and sneered then, even Mr. Godfrey Downes Carter, told me afterwards that he wished the suggestion had been taken up. It was that no pub- lie company should pay a dividend of more than 10 per cent., and that all profits, after providing for that amount, should be equally divided between the

State and the company’s- reserve funds. One of the greatest financial experts who visited Australia when the banks were paying 10 per cent, dividends, said that a crash was sure to come. The book from which I am . quoting, Commercial Crises of the Nineteenth Century, by H. M. Hyndman, shows that, on the average, there is always a boom every thirteen years. I conclude my quotations from this book with the following : -

That the whole crisis will be a permanent record of the imbecility of English investors there can already be no doubt whatever. For those who held Argentine bonds, to which they had subscribed on the faith of representations made by first-rate financial houses that had secured enormous profits out of the issues, actually allowed the representatives of these very houses to form a financial caucus, specially constituted to sacrifice the public interests of investors to their own private necessities; granting the Argentine Government an unaskedfor delay in paying interest for three whole years, on condition that they, the magnates of the money market, should be relieved from their obligations in connexion with the rotten scheme for the water supply of the city df Buenos Ayres. Not a single bondholder or shareholder was represented on this great committee, of which Lord Rothschild was the chairman, and the whole affair was arranged to the ruin of the investors, so as to suit the pockets of those who sat with him round the table.

That is just the history of to-day; It is what I want to avoid now while we may. We are like Moses standing on the Mount of Pisgah looking towards the promised land that he was not destined to enter. The promised land lies ahead. The place of bondage lies behind. Which way are we to take ? We are given some power of choice.

I thank the honorable member for Franklin (Mr. . Mcwilliams) for suggesting that at least another year’s grace be given, because before that period of twelve months expires, this Parliament will meet its creators, who will, for one day in three years, have the power of moulding it as they desire. Possibly during that twelve months much may occur. For instance, the new loan may not prove a success. If that should be the case, and pressure is brought to bear by means of compulsion, capital will be still further crippled, and the banks will, have less money to lend out to enterprises, whether they be farming, squatting’, or manufacturing. ‘ The Government have gone half the way. I ask them to go the whole distance; at any .rate to see that the £100,000,000 on mortgage is not called up till after the next election. Well do I remember, with unfortunate memories, the crash of the land boom. I have mentioned the fact that 200 of my schoolmates in North and West Melbourne lost their homes when institution after institution crashed. And they were not called upon to pay up their mortgages as this Bill proposes to do. They were merely asked to pay in monthly instalments, but they could not do it, because trouble commences once the financial credit of the community is shaken. This Bill will tend to shake the. financial credit of this community. Did not Sir John Grice, the managing director of the National Bank, warn us, not for the purpose of giving a Labour member like myself a peg to hang an argument on, but for the welfare of this community at large, as to the dangerous method in which our war loans were being floated, by freeing the holders of bonds from taxation? Did he not show, in plain words, that the man of wealth who could put his money into those loans would be securing a return equal to 7 per cent, or per cent. , whereas the majority of the people, who could only lend small sums of money, would be receiving not more than 4 per cent., because they did not come under the heavier grades of income taxation, which the wealthier investor would escape? If the Government want the new loan to succeed, I impress upon them the advisability of extending the period of the moratorium for at least twelve months. That would give stability to credit, which is the soul of true government. Supposing a man who is starting a big private venture is anxious to get a large number of debentures taken up. If, at the same time, he could take the ready money from those who had been protected so far, and compel them to use all their money and energies in endeavouring to meet their mortgages, would he not be a very foolish man to attempt to float his venture in such circumstances ? Yet ‘here the Government are endeavouring to do it. They are endeavouring to float a loan at the very time that they call upon people to meet their mortgages.

The word “moratorium” has been a curse with me; but I am pleased that the Government have seen their way to go as far as they have gone, because, for the first time, a limitation’ has been placed upon the amount of interest, that can be claimed. A loan in which I shared became due to the State Savings Bank about eighteen months ago. The gentleman .who was my partner said, “ Let us plead the moratorium”; but I said, “I do not think that would be quite fair. Let us go and see the manager of the bank.” We did so. The manager of the bank said, “ We think that we ought to receive 6 per cent.” He gave the reason. I said, “ That is just: I will agree to pay 6 per cent.” My colleague agreed also. Others who pleaded the moratorium have been able to hold on to the present moment at the lower rate of interest; but when their turn comes to renew, the banks will not treat them in the same way as they will treat those who saw the fairness of the offer they made. I understand that, in the case of amounts under £2,000, the interest is limited not to extend beyond 6 per cent.

Mr Groom:

– The rate is to be that which is provided in the mortgage, or 6 per cent., whichever is less.

Dr MALONEY:

– In the case of the amount being oyer £2,000, the rate is to be that which is provided in the mortgage, or 6 per cent., whichever is greater. I do not 3ee why there need be two bites at a cherry. The Committee is generous enough, I think, to make 6 per cent, the limit right throughout. I thank the Government for having made this definite limitation of interest. I only wish that the people outside should have it sunk into their minds that no interest can be charged beyond a certain amount.

As the Minister (Mr. Groom) has justly said, it is provided that when a mortgage becomes due any one can appeal to the Court and get justice; but it is not many of us who like the name of a Court. I had an experience in the High Court for two or three afternoons, at the cost of £300.

Mr Tudor:

– The honorable member was lucky. It should have been £200 an afternoon.

Dr MALONEY:

– Unfortunately, when we run up against these horse-hair divinities called Judges, we realize that they would rather give decisions on petty technical points than weigh the moral claims of true justice.

We have had, we are having, and will continue for a little time longer to experience, a boom. As a hollow always follows a wave, so there will come a crisis, unless by the passing of wise laws this Parliament prevents it. There is no reason why we should not continue on a full tide of success. Not by any special vote of Parliament, but by their loyal acquiescence . in- the requests of this Government and Parliament, the Australian public has been pouring out its money in hundreds of millions to assist in carrying on a justifiable war. * For the welfare of our country, to keep men and women employed, and so to save misery, we should be prepared, if necessary, to pour out further tens of millions upon works and industries that shall supply all our needs. A Government which, by its actions, brought about a crash to-day, would be regarded with that same loathing and contempt as was heaped upon a certain past Government of this State, which was held responsible for the great crash following upon the last notorious boom - a Government which included in its personnel individuals who for many a day thereafter strutted about beneath their titles. As to that, I desire to read an appropriate extract from the Herald this evening -

BRISBANE, Wednesday.

When seconding the motion for the AddressinReply in the Legislative Council yesterday, Mr. Randolph Bedford supported the proposed abolition of the State Governorship.-

The Governor, ho said, was the link between this and the Old Country. The fewer links, in his opinion, the better. The good Australian was an anti-Imperialist. The Imperialist policy spelt Free Trade.

Mr. Bedford remarked on “ cheap and nasty titles.” “ Imported titles,”- he said, “ came down to their proper position when a haggis comedian was made a knight.”

I will say this for Harry Lauder, that I honour him more than I do some of the creatures who are possessed of titles in this land to-day. He collected something like £300,000 or £400,000 for the boys at the Front, and for their women and children. That is an act which has never been equalled or approached by any of the strutting title-holders in Australia in these days.

I cannot see the wisdom of authorizing mortgages to be called up on the one hand, while, at the same time, the Government is asking for a further loan of £25,000,000. Prior to our experience of the terrible war from which we have just emerged, the very idea of borrowing £25,000,000 in Australia would have been scorned. We would have heard the remark, “Oh, no; you will have to go to London to borrow that.” Poor old John Bull has been bled nearly white; but still certain of the Australian States are cadging from him to-day, knowing full well that he has to carry a far heavier burden than ever before, and than ever he should have been asked to shoulder. For the sake of the success of the projected loan of £25,000,000, Implead with the Government to further consider whether it will be justified in authorizing the calling up of mortgages after the manner now proposed.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:
EdenMonaro

– I trust that the Government will accede to the plea for a greater measure of mercy to people in trouble with their mortgage prospects to-day. Those of us who know the condition of the country at present can realize what this Act will precipitate. We know the present seasonal conditions; we are fully aware that money is very dear, and that renewals of mortgages will be both costly and difficult. It should not be forgotten that many small men subscribed to the war loans by embarrassing their finances for the time being. Yet, while they are still so embarrassed, the Government propose to borrow £25,000,000, and threaten that, unless the amount is forthcoming, compulsion will be introduced. I shall be sorry to witness the operation of compulsion, but if it is brought about it should be exercised upon those who possess plenty of money, and who can be proved to have refrained from subscribing to past loans.

We should not overlook conditions existing to-day as compared with those when the war commenced. The cost of living has soared tremendously. The honorable member for Franklin (Mr. Mcwilliams) has stated a very reasonable caseIt is easy for one to speak sympathetically of those parties who loaned money at low rates of interest, and who are in trouble while waiting to get their money back, but what we need in Australia is stability of credit. The outlook is not very bright; there has been something of a boom during the war, and there is the reverse of boom times ahead. -It should be the duty of the Government, therefore, to do all in their power to avoid those evil days. The Government seem to be strangely obstinate in regard to the matter at present under discussion. The people are alarmed at their proposals. I shall quote a telegram which I received from a well-known business man in Sydney -

Moratorium Bill, unless this provides for extension present regulations until 30th June next, will cause financial chaos. Mortgagees already giving notice requiring payments, and refusing renewals. Extension vital importance, otherwise mean ruin to large number of small land-holders, especially in view prevailing seasonal conditions and inability obtain fresh advances, against which war loan also operating. Kindly endeavour obtain necessary amendment.

Mr Riley:

– That may happen twelve months hence.

Mr JOWETT:

– Yes, with this difference, that the mortgagor would be better able to pay off some portion of it, and thus reduce the capital amount. The following is the letter I have received -

I have received your letter, also loan application form-

I had recommended them to work on the Credit Foncier system of Victoria. The letter continues -

I had already get those papers, and found that I could not finance the matter without disposing of my stock.

These farmers have a few horses, sheep, and dairy cows, and cannot finance their operations without disposing of their stock. The letter goes on -

Then my source of income would be gone; hence my visit to you. I am confident of succeeding, and I also think that anything you can reasonably do for me you will. I do not wantanyone to give me anything, other than time.

Deen depressed. It is the bounden duty of every member to look at both sides of the case in considering a measure of this kind. We should endeavour to classify fairly the loan moneys of Australia. In the main, the largest amount will be found to be lent by the large financial institutions, .such as the insurance companies and-the big trustee companies. And banking institutions have lent to a smaller extent, because they have to keep their capital more available and some in a liquid state, therefore, as a rule, they do not enter into mortgages at fixed rates for fixed periods. We come then to .a fairly substantial proportion of loans made in small amounts by individuals who depend for their livelihood on the income from them. I ask the Committee to take the condition of those people into consideration. The issue has been fully and fairly .debated in a non-partisan spirit, and many of ‘the speakers have been very informative; but it must not be forgotten that the whole question of public credit is involved. The financial resources and abilities of Australia have been greatly strained, and we, perhaps, have contributed to the increased cost of living by the continual habit of extending the internal credit- of Australia and facilitating the desire of everybody to purchase whatever he wants. By our huge loan schemes, the expansion of the note issue, and many other ‘ means, we in this House have contributed in a large degree to the present inflated and abnormal condition of affairs. The law of absorption operates whether we notice it or not, and is reflected nowhere better than in the financial world. Where there is money, it will be absorbed. The prices of land, stock, or wages rise, and largely follow the availability of .money. Before I entered politics I had a good deal to do with the obtaining of loans, ‘.particularly for the primary producers. Many members who have spoken in favour of the amendment have done so in the earnest desire to secure an advantage for the producers; but my deliberate opinion is that the present is probably a far more favorable period to obtain loans in this country than twelve months hence will be. I was engaged before I entered this House in probing the money market, particularly the financial houses of this city, such as the trustee companies, insurance companies, and solicitors’ offices, to secure money wherever we could get it. I was a keen buyer of money at the time, and we went to work in the keenest possible way to secure it at the lowest rates of interest. I have no hesitation in saying that today is a very favorable time for the flotation of loans. Notwithstanding the generosity of the Government in extending the period of the moratorium for” a further six months, in response to the suggestion of the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. Sampson), who deserves the fullest possible credit for recognising that such an extension would bring in the proceeds of another wool clip, as well as of another harvest, I recommend any man who has a loan falling due not to take advantage of the Minister’s amendment, but to get in quickly and rearrange his mortgage. The honorable member for Indi (Mr. Leckie), with the best possible desire, pointed out that the effect of the amendment would be to confine within a period of six months the maturing of all loans, thereby placing an undue tax on the money market. I agree that there is no compulsion about the matter. Every man will have the full period” within which to act, just as he had before; but I would point out that most of the mortgages which have been arranged since the moratorium regulations became operative, are quite outside the scope of this Bill, and of those regulations. That has been the result of a deliberate act on the part of the borrowers and lenders.

Mr Mcwilliams:

– The same remark applies to contracts for the sale of land.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– Exactly. I am as solicitous for the welfare of the producers as is any honorable member present; but

I feel that it is our. bounden duty to ask ourselves whether we are meting out evenhanded justice to all parties under these contracts. Are we fairly considering those who- are dependent for their livelihood upon the incomes which they derive from mortgages?

Mr Jowett:

– They get their interest.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I know that; but, as producers, we have always claimed the right to sell our goods on the open markets of the world, and they have the right to sell their money in the same way. Need I remind the Committee that many honorable members in this chamber have repeatedly asked for the abolition of all our War Precautions Regulations, including the moratorium? I hold that everybody has had fair notice of the intention of the Legislature in regard to mortgages. The money market to-day is more favorable than it may be twelve months hence, because in that period we shall have raised another, loan for £25,000,000. I say that every person who has an outstanding mortgage, about which there is doubt and uncertainty, should at once set to work with a view to rearranging it. According to the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates), every person or institution which lends money in this country must be classed as a vampire or financial brigand. Personally, that is not my experience. In all our large financial institutions, a most dependable policy has been laid down. Those institutions care for their clients who borrow money from them . Unless their clients prosper, the institutions themselves cannot prosper. During the war period, the banks in Australia have not “ raised their rate of interest. They have made no attempt to profiteer. We ought, therefore, to be -fair to those whose business it is to lay down a policy with regard to the running of huge financial institutions. Concerning the price of money, we have had very little to complain of during the war period. Now that we have reached the post-war period, the Government are grading the transition from war to peace ; and in meeting the very reasonable request of the honorable member for Wimmera (Mr. ‘Sampson), they have” gone as far as we have a right to expect them to go.

Amendment (by Mr. McWilliams) proposed -

That the word “ February “ be omitted from the proposed amendment with a view to the insertion of the word “ August “ in lieu thereof.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

.- There is just one matter to which I particularly desire to refer, namely, the provision in regard to active . service men. In two separate measures, that provision is of a most generous character indeed. Every soldier who has a mortgage upon his land of notmore than £2,500 may bring that land under the operation of the Discharged Soldiers’ Settlement Act, and thereby obtain an advance, if necessary, up to 90 per cent. of the value of the land, repayable over a period of thirty years. That is the provision which obtains in regard to rural areas. A similar provision is operative in regard to metropolitan and township lands in any part of the Commonwealth under the War Service Homes Act.

Question - That the word “ February “ stand part of the proposed amendment - put. The Committee divided.

AYES: 25

NOES: 20

Majority . . . . 5

AYES

NOES

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment of the amendment negatived.

Amendment (by Mr. Mcwilliams) proposed -

That the word “ February “ be omitted from the proposed amendment, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the word “May”.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr Atkinson:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

– I cannot accept the. amendment. The Committee has decided that the month shall be February.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments (by Mr. Groom) agreed to-

That the words “ thirty-first day of August, 1919,” regulation 13, sub-regulation 3, be left out, with a view to insert in lieu thereof the words “ twenty -ninth day of February, 1920 “ ;

That the words “ thirty- first day of August, 1919,” regulation 13, sub-regulation 4, be left out, with a view to insert, in lieu thereof the words “ twenty-ninth day of February, 1920 “.

First schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Progress reported.

page 11299

ADJOURNMENT

A.I.F. Badges - Nurses - Note and Stamp Printing Offices

Motion (by Mr. Groom) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr Groom:

– No. I said the first business would be the Moratorium Bill.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

– I asked the Minister, because plans of the building which I have seen show only one section of it.

Mr Groom:

– I am afraid I cannot discuss that question to-night.

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

– If .the Minister will not be in order in discussing the matter, I will be in order in asking a simple question, and if I do not get an answer I shall move the adjournment of the House to-morrow. The plans which I have seen show only one section of the proposed building, and if they are correct they convey a false impression to honorable members. We are being humbugged, and we should know who is responsible. If the plans I have seen are correct, the building will cost three or four times the amount stated by the Government. .

I also feel strongly on this question of the badges, and I know that their value will be greatly depreciated if they are given to men who have not earned them. I ana sure the Assistant Minister (Mr. Wise) is not responsible, but who is we are entitled to know. Those who have done service in the war should get some distinguishing badge. The honorable member for Parkes (Mr. Bruce Smith) referred to the nurses. I know of one nurse .who after rendering great service for yeaTS in charge of a hospital in Australia, went to England, and was on duty in a hospital which was the scene of great carnage, forty mcn being killed during an air Taid. She is now back in Australia, and has not received a badge, although she has done as much as many of our warriors. I ask the Minister, therefore, to see that the nurses get proper recognition in the matter of war badges, especially when they have been in the fighting zone. I hope that the Minister will see that this matter is put right. There’ is dissatisfaction in regard to the issue of these badges which ought to be nipped in the bud.

Dr MALONEY:
Melbourne

– I have had a look through the plans of the proposed alterations to the Turn Verein, in Victoria-parade, and I think the cost will be something approaching £46,000. I suggest that architects should be invited to submit plans, and that the winner of the prize for the best design should have control ‘ of the building, wherever it is.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

– I did not realize that the honorable member for Eden-Monaro (Mr,. Austin Chapman) was discussing a matter which is the subject of a motion on the business-paper. I should have called him to order for anticipating business on the notice-paper; and obviously I cannot permit the honorable member to continue discussing the same matter.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

House adjourned at 10.38 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 6 August 1919, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1919/19190806_reps_7_89/>.

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House of Representatives 6 August 1919

LEAVE OF ABSENCE

QUESTION

INCOME TAX RETURNS

Mr CHARLTON:HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:Treasurer · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr Austin Chapman:

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

SEAMEN’S STRIKE

Mr LISTER:CORIO, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

RUNNING OF TRAMS

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH SHIPBUILDING SCHEME

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:NAT

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:

Mr WATT:

QUESTION

TAXATION DEPARTMENT

Mr TUDOR:YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

QUARANTINE STATION, NORTH TASMANIA

Mr ATKINSON:WILMOT, TASMANIA

Mr MASSY-GREENE:Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

PROFITEERING : AMENDMENT 04? CONSTITUTION

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

ECONOMIC COUNCIL

Mr RODGERS:WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN IMPERIAL FORGE

Mr RILEY:SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WISE:Honorary Minister · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · NAT

QUESTION

AUSTRALIANS ENLISTED IN ENGLAND

Mr WATKINS:NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr Watkins:

BUTTER POOL

Supervisioncharge

Mr MASSY-GREENE:Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

QUESTION

REPORT BY EX-PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER

Mr TUDOR:

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

QUARANTINE STATION, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr AUSTIN CHAPMAN:

Mr MASSY-GREENE:Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

AUSTRALIA HOUSE

Reported Strike

Mr YATES:ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

CONSTRUCTION OE COUNTRY TELEPHONE LINES

Mr RODGERS:WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WEBSTER:Postmaster-General · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

QUESTION

SALE OF COPPER

Mr BLAKELEY:DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:NAT

QUESTION

WAR MEDALS

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WISE:NAT

QUESTION

WAR TROPHIES

Mr FINLAYSON:BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr Austin Chapman:

Mr FINLAYSON:

Mr GLYNN:Minister for Home and Territories · ANGAS, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Mr Finlayson:

QUESTION

House of Representatives
6 August 1919

Mr CHARLTON:
HUNTER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:
Treasurer · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr LISTER:
CORIO, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:
NAT

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr TUDOR:
YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr ATKINSON:
WILMOT, TASMANIA

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WISE:
Honorary Minister · GIPPSLAND, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr WATKINS:
NEWCASTLE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr YATES:
ADELAIDE, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr WEBSTER:
Postmaster-General · MACQUARIE, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Mr BLAKELEY:
DARLING, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:
NAT

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WISE:
NAT

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr GLYNN:
Minister for Home and Territories · ANGAS, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Mr LECKIE:
INDI, VICTORIA

Mr WEBSTER:
NAT

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr WISE:
NAT

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr WATT:
BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917; LP from 1922; NAT from 1925

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr POYNTON:
Honorary Minister · GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · NAT

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SAMPSON:
Wimmera

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr BLAKELEY:
Darling

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
Minister for Trade and Customs · RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917