House of Representatives
16 August 1917

7^th Parliament · 1^st Session

QUESTION
- PATROL BOAT, SYDNEY HARBOR
BUREAU OF NATIONAL SERVICE
QUESTION
- TRADING WITH THE ENEMY
QUESTION
- MILITARY POLICE AT PARLIAMENT HOUSE
PAPERS
QUESTION
- KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY
QUESTION
- AMERICAN FRUIT
QUESTION
- PUBLIC WORKS AND PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEES
QUESTION
- ZINC PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION
QUESTION
- DEPORTATION OF UNDESIRABLES
QUESTION
- INDUSTRIAL CRISIS
QUESTION
- SHARES OF ENEMY COMPANIES
QUESTION
- BONUSES FOR INDUSTRIES
QUESTION
- IMPORTATION OF LUXURIES
QUESTION
- STOCKHOLM CONFERENCE
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN WHISKY
QUESTION
- PACIFISTS AND PEERS
QUESTION
- POST AND TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT : AWARDS
DISTURBANCE AT RECRUITING MEETING
QUESTION
- NEW WORKS: ESTIMATED COST
QUESTION
- COMMONWEALTH STEAMERS
QUESTION
- SULPHATE OF AMMONIA : EXPORT
VALUATION OF LAND BILL
QUESTION
- AUSTRALIAN IMPERIAL FORCE
QUESTION
- COST OF BAKING BREAD
QUESTION
- PRIME MINISTER’S DEPARTMENT
QUESTION
- ARMY ORDNANCE CORPS
QUESTION
- INDUSTRIAL CRISIS
QUESTION
- RETAIL PRICE OF SPIRITS
QUESTION
- CORDITE FACTORY
QUESTION
- DUTY ON SACKS
QUESTION
- EASTERN TRADE

The Speaker (Hon. W. Elliot Johnsin) took the chair at 2.30 p.m., and read prayers.

page 1141

QUESTION

PATROL BOAT, SYDNEY HARBOR

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Minister for the Navy · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

– In reply to a question asked by the honorable member for Calare (Mr. Pigott) last week, I wish to; state that the amount paid for the services rendered by motor launches for patrol work in Sydney Harbor was in 1914-15, £3,943’; in 1915-16, £3,105; and in 1916-17, £1,896.

page 1141

BUREAU OF NATIONAL SERVICE

Mr BOYD:
HENTY, VICTORIA

– Will the Prime Minister state what steps he is taking for the establishment of a bureau to get oyer the shipping difficulty J

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · BENDIGO, VICTORIA · NAT

– I have this morning appointed Mr. Haldane, of the Postal Department, to be Director-General of a National Service Bureau. An office has been taken and a staff is being formed to carry on the work of the bureau. Mr. Whitehead, of the Victorian Public Service, has been appointed Director for’ this State, and I am expecting nominations for the position of Director for the States of New South Wales and Western Australia. In South Australia no dispute of. any kind exists. ‘ The bureau will commence operations forthwith.

page 1141

QUESTION

TRADING WITH THE ENEMY

Mr ANSTEY:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

– I wish to address a question to the Minister in charge of External Affairs. Will you, Mr. Speaker, tell me who that is ?

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

– The question is not one which, strictly speaking, should be addressed to the Speaker; but . I understand that there has been a rearrangement of the Ministerial offices, and that the work which was formerly done by the Department of External Affairs has been distributed between the Departments controlled by the Prime Minister and the Minister for Home and Territories.

Mr ANSTEY:

– Then I address my question to whichever of those Ministers it may . concern. I ask why the prohibition on trading in respect of Wehrenberg and Co. and about 200 other German firms in Japan, and against Beer, Sondheimer and Co., and about 200 other firms in ‘the United States of America has been withdrawn. I refer to the Commonwealth Gazettes of June and July last.

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– I think that the question is one to which an answer has already been given. The prohibition relating to firms doing business in Japan was withdrawn at the instance of the Japanese Government, which has itself imposed a prohibition on the trading of the firms mentioned, making our prohibition unnecessary. As to the prohibition affecting the United States of America, if . the honorable member will put a question on the business-paper, I shall endeavour to give him an answer to it to-morrow.

Mr ANSTEY:

– What possible objection can there be to the press of this country publishing the statement that appeared in the Government Gazette to the effect that the prohibition orders had been withdrawn against these German firms ?

Mr HUGHES:

– I do not know what objection there can bo. Is the honorable member speaking of a prohibition that has been directed to the press i If so, I do not know anything of it.’

Mr Anstey:

– The prohibition is nob on the part of the censors, who are willing to allow the’ publication, bub it came from- a member of the Government.

Mr HUGHES:

– Ido not’ know anything of the matter.- It may be that the journal with which the honorable member is connected proposed to utilize this matter for the purposeof reflecting on one of our Allies. Of course that could not be permitted.

Mr ANSTEY:

– By way of personal explanation, 1 desire to say that the Prime Minister wishes to ascribe to me a desire to “reflect on one of our Allies. That statement is not correct. What I did wish to do was to make a reflection on the Government.

page 1142

QUESTION

MILITARY POLICE AT PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– I ask the Prime Minister whether any military police wore at Parliament House yesterday?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– In view of the statement of the honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr.Fen ton), I made inquiries on this subject from the Defence Department, and have been furnished with a report, in which it is stated that no military police wore in the vicinity’ of Parliament House yesterday. Therefore there was no truth in the statement made here.

Mr.FENTON.- By way ofpersonal explanation, I wish tosay I asked the Minister for the Navy whether the military police that were seen among the assembled crowd yesterday were there-

Mr Boyd:

– That is not the way in which the honorable member put the matter. He said that military police were there.

Mr.FENTON.- Whenever I rise,I am subjected to unruly interruptions by the honorable member.

Mr Boyd:

– I want the honorable member to be accurate.

Mr.FENTON. - -The honorable member isnot my censor.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

– The honorable member for Maribyrnong (Mr. Fenton) has asked tobe allowed to state his question in silence-

When an honorable member makes a request of that kind, it isthe especial duty of the Chair to see that ho is heard without interruption.

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

– Seeing that there were military police in the crowd outside Parliament House, yesterday,I was anxious, to know whether they were there under instructions from the Defence Department, and, during the course of the reply of the Minister for the Navy, I said that they may have been merely sightseeing. I think that it was a perfectly reasonablequestion to put, because it is generally understood that military police are merely to look after their own class, and when I sawthem among a crowd of civilians I was anxious to know whether they wore there under instructions or not.

Mr HUGHES:

– By way of personal explanation, I wish to say that this is a matter to which I attach considerable importance, and when I heard the statement of the honorable member Iimmediately saw the Minister for Defence,, and asked him whether he, or any of his officers, had given instructions for military police tobe in attendance. He said, that he had given no such instructions, but that he would inquire whether any had been given. The report that I have referred to is that which has been furnished as the result of that inquiry. The Government would view with the greatest possible disfavour the introduction of military police into what is a purely civil matter, in regard to which, there would be no excuse whatever for the introduction, of the military. That is the attitude and the policy of the Government.

page 1142

PAPERS

The following papers were pre sented : -

Customs. Act - Proclamation prohibiting Exportation (except under, certain conditions) of Sulphate of Ammonia (dated 10th. August, 1917).

Post and Telegraph Act - Regulations Amended - Statutory Rules1917, Nos. 148. 152, 103, 154, 172, 175, 176.

Unlawful . Associations Act- RegulationsStatutory Rules 1917, No. 177.

page 1142

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Traffic Returns.

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

– Has the Minister for Works and Railways the return that he recentlypromised to furnish in regard to traffic operations on the Kalgoorlie to Port Augusta railway?

Mr WATT:
Minister for Works and Railways · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

– I have much pleasure in laying the return on the table.

Ordered to be printed.

page 1143

QUESTION

AMERICAN FRUIT

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Prime Minister received a petition from Sydney fruit merchants requesting a modification of the embargo on American apples and other fruit; and, if so, does he propose to grant therequest put forward?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– I have not received any such . petition. Ihave many times stated the position of the Government in regard to this matter. The policy of the Government, and, I understand, of Parliament, is to encourage Australian industries and the consumption of Australian products. The question of allowing importations of fruit will not be considered until it is found impossible to give effect to that policy. The fruitgrowers of this country have been consulted in reference to the matter covered by the honorable member’s question, but they have not advised any relaxation of the restriction on importations, except possibly during December and January; and the Government are mow considering to what extent, if any, the embargo may be relaxed during those months.

page 1143

QUESTION

PUBLIC WORKS AND PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEES

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

– Last week, the Prime Minister said that the Government would give consideration to the matter of appointing the Committee of Public Accounts and theCommittee of Public Works. Has any step been taken in regard to ‘the matter?

INDUSTRIAL CRISIS

Mr CONSIDINE:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Is it the intention of the Government to take any steps towards bringing about a conference between those who are primarily engaged in the existing industrial disturbances in New South Wales - the Commissioners of Railways, on the one hand, and the railway and tramway employees ‘ on the other hand - with a view to bringing the trouble to an end?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– No.

Mr FOWLER:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

– In view of the possibility of the present industrial troubles completely isolating Western Australia from the other parts of the Commonwealth, with very serious results in regard to food supplies, will the Minister for the Navy take’ precautions to maintain communication with Western Australia by sea, at any rate, until the transcontinental railway is completed ?

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
NAT

– I do not quite know what powers I have in the direction suggested by the honorable member.

Mr Fowler:

– You have at your disposal naval forces which might man the ships.

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– I suggest to the honorable member that he should address his question to the Prime Minister. I believe that the Shipping Board is now controlled by Senator Russell. I should like to say in a general way, however, that the Navy Department is taking steps to see that the transports leave at their appointed time with their appointed freights. By freights I mean cargo as well as men. Whatever resources are at the disposal of the Navy Department will be exercised to the full in order to attain that object.

Mr BRENNAN:
BATMAN, VICTORIA

– In view of the notification in the press and elsewhere that the Government propose to employ, the Navy, so far as it can be employed, to overcome the difficulties arising through the strikes, does the. Minister for the Navy propose that those persons in the Navy who decline to assist in strike-breaking in any way shall be put on trial under the naval and military laws?

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

– It is quite unusual to answer questions founded on hypothetical circumstances.

Mr MATHEWS:
MELBOURNE PORTS, VICTORIA

– In connexion with the arrest of Miss Adela Pankhurst yesterday the newspaper reportsimply that many more arrests are to follow.. I ask the Prime Minister to assure me that there will be plenty of blankets available in the gaol when I am collared;

Mr HUGHES:

– As parliamentary representative of the Castlemaine Woollen Mills, which produce blankets, I shall certainly see that an order is placed with that establishment so that when the honorable member’s time for imprisonment comes, he will have plenty of covering.

page 1144

QUESTION

SHARES OF ENEMY COMPANIES

Mr ANSTEY:

– In the Government Gazette recently appeared a notice that a number of shares were to be put into the hands of the public trustee on behalf of Der Deutsche Bank, Der Dresdner Bank, and Der DiscontoGesellschaft. Are those shares to remain in the hands of. the public trustee until after the end of the war ; if not, what is to be done with them?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– To the best of my knowledge, I gave the public trustee orders to sell all shares of enemy companies some three or four months ago. Yesterday when I was asked a question in reference to these shares I learned that they had not been sold, but the public trustee informed the Solicitor-General, from whom I obtained my information, that the matter of dealing with some thousands of enemy shares involves a good deal of detail work. However, he has completed his arrangements, and he proposes to sell the shares forthwith if possible. That applies to the shares mentioned by the honorable member as well as others.

page 1144

QUESTION

BONUSES FOR INDUSTRIES

Mr FENTON:

– As the ‘ System of bonuses has been helpful in stimulating some of the industries of the Commonwealth, is it the intention of the Minister for Trade and Customs to continue that system, especially in regard to industries that are struggling to keep their heads above water in competition with the products of cheap labour countries?

Mr JENSEN:
Minister for Trade and Customs · BASS, TASMANIA · NAT

– Cabinet has now under consideration the question of bounties and bonuses for Australian industries.

page 1144

QUESTION

IMPORTATION OF LUXURIES

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Some time ago 1 received a circular from an association, and signed by Mr. Mauger, with reference to the importation of luxuries. I made several inquiries of Mr. Mauger, one of which was in reference to the quantities, not merely the prices, of goods imported. I have received no reply or acknowledgment of my communication, and I should like to ask the Minister for Trade and Customs ‘whether he can see his way to provide the House with that information, as all members received the same circular ?

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

– The circular was sent to me, and I wish to state emphatically that the facts were not placed before the public in their true light. It’ mentioned merely the value of importations, and not the quantity of goods entering Australia. I know for a positive fact that many imported articles have risen- in price from 20 per cent. to 70 per cent., and that very few articles are how imported which do not show an increase of at’ least 20 per cent. over the purchase value in 1915. Therefore, figures as to the value of importations are not a true criterion of the quantity of good’s imported. I can assure honorable members that there has been an enormous falling-off in the quantities imported.

Mr TUDOR:
YARRA, VICTORIA

– The honorable member for Wentworth asked the Minister to supply the particulars in regard to quantities that are omitted from the circular. Is it possible ‘to supply those figures until six or eight months after the close of the year ?

Mr JENSEN:

– It is impossible to give a detailed statement of goods imported at this time of the year.

page 1145

QUESTION

STOCKHOLM CONFERENCE

Representation of Australian Views

Mr BRENNAN:

– Since the Prime Minister, uninvited, made representations to the Imperial Government in regard to Labour representation at the Stockholm Conference, will he see that the censorship in this country is so far relaxed as to enable organized Labour in Australia to make representations as to its desires in connexion with that matter?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– I shall consider the question.

page 1145

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN WHISKY

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

– I desire to ask the

Minister for Trade and Customs whether it has been brought under his notice that Australian-manufactured whisky, which has a certain amount of protection from the Excise duty, is being blended with imported spirits and sold in bottles with labels purporting that it is imported whisky?

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

– The matter has been brought under my notice. In view of the fact that manufacturers of Australian whisky enjoy a good protection under the Tariff - the Excise being less than the import duty - and also the double protection afforded by reason of the enormous freight costs on imported’ spirits, I think that they would be well advised if they recognised that their products should be sold as being of Australian manufacture. Australian spirits, once the Excise duty has been collected, are released from any further control so far as the Commonwealth is concerned. It is a matter for the State authorities to see that whisky and other spirits made in Australia are sold assuch.

Mr CONSIDINE:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; IND LAB from 1920

– Arising out of’ the’ answer which the Minister for Trade” and Customs gave to a question in regard’ to the prohibition or protection-

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

– Order! I would remind the honorable member that it is not in order to address to Ministers questions arising, out of answers previously given by them to questions on the same subject. This practice, if permitted, would give rise to an irregular debate.

– By way of personal explanation, sir, I wish to point out that the honorablemember for Batman (Mr. Brennan) suggested that I had deliberately anticipated a question he proposed to put. I had not the slightest idea that he proposed to ask a question on this subject, or that he regards himself as an authority on the Peerage; but I can assure you, sir, that it was with no malice that I trespassed upon his particular domain.

page 1146

QUESTION

POST AND TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT : AWARDS

Mr BRENNAN:

– In the absence of the Postmaster-General, who, I understand, is ill, I desire to ask the Prime Min-. ister if it is a fact that the Government have in contemplation a regulation - or have passed a regulation- which will have the effect of giving to other than members of organizations the benefits of awards made’ under the Public Service Arbitration Act?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– As locum tenens for the Postmaster-General, I am unable. to pump up an effective answer to the honorable member. I do not even know what is the point to which the honorable member refers. I can only say that it has no relation to his former question.

page 1146

DISTURBANCE AT RECRUITING MEETING

Mr PIGOTT:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

– Has the Prime Minister noticed from to-day’s newspapers that a wilful and wicked attack was last night made by pacifists, in a most militant manner, on ladies assembled-

Mr Brennan:

– I rise to a point of, order. The honorable member is now endeavouring to do precisely what you, sir, in your wisdom, prevented me from doing just now.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

– When, the honorable member for Batman rose, I was about to call the attention of the honorable member for Calare to the fact that he was doing what the honorable member for Batman had been forbidden to do.

Mr PIGOTT:

– Has the Prime Minister noticed from the press reports that a wilful and wicked attack was made-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order! The honorable member cannot ask a question of that kind. Under cover of asking a question, the honorable member is making certain statements, and expressing an opinion about the actions ‘ of people outside. Strictly speaking, questions are not in order which are based on paragraphs appearing in a newspaper, unless the member makes himself responsible for their accuracy; and the honorable member . distinctly stated that his question had reference to something which had appeared in a press report.

Mr PIGOTT:

– Is the Prime Minister aware that an attack was made on ladies, who were holding a recruiting meeting in Queen-street, by pacifists who assembled

Mr Anstey:

– I rise to a point of order. My point is that these people were not pacifists.

Mr SPEAKER:

– I remind the honorable member that it. is distinctly not in conformity with the dignity of the House to raise points of order of a frivolous character. , ,

Mr PIGOTT:

– Will the Prime Minister see that some protection is given to those ladies who, assembled at a recruiting meeting, are alleged to have been attacked by members of the Pacifists- Association?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– As a humble and very abject belligerent in this great contest, I can quite appreciate the feeling of the lady friends of the honorable member who are confronted by these very determined pacifists, and I shall do what I can to protect them. Perhaps the honorable member will let me have further particulars, so that, in my anxiety to do good, I. may not protect the wrong ladies.

page 1147

QUESTION

NEW WORKS: ESTIMATED COST

Mr GREGORY:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Has he noted a recent recommendation made by the - Committee of Public Accounts that when the estimates of New Works are submitted to Parliament they should show the estimated cost of such work when completed ?
Will the Treasurer publish the estimated completed cost of the various important works’ for which provision is being made on this year’s Estimates’?

Sir JOHN FORREST:
Treasurer · SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

Yes.
The total amount required to complete all works included in the Estimates is already shown in each case, except in the following instances : -
1. Sydney General Post Office-, new public hall, and other alterations -

Amount provided, £10,000.

The total estimated cost is £18,000.

Brisbane Parcels Post Building : ‘ An amount of £250 was provided in the Estimates in order to meet certain preliminary expenses. As the pro ject has fallen through the provision will not now be required.
Adelaide General Post Office -

Amount provided, £2,500.

The total estimated cost, accord ing to latest advices, is about £79,000.

I regret this was not shown in the Estimates. It was inadvertently omitted,

General Arsenal Works and Buildings -

Amount provided, £150,000.

The total estimated cost is £930,000.

This should have been shown in Esti mates, but was inadvertently omitted.

page 1147

QUESTION

COMMONWEALTH STEAMERS

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Has he or any of the officers of. ‘his Department’ any official information concerning the details of expenditure in connexion with the purchase, maintenance, and cost of working the Commonwealth line of steam-ships; if so, where are the said details shown in the Estimates of Receipts and Expenditure for the year ending 30th June, 1918?
What control or supervision has the Treasurer over receipts and expenditure in connexion with the Commonwealth line of steamships ?

Sir JOHN FORREST:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes. The details are not yet available, but it is hoped to be able to present them shortly.
The same control as. is exercised by the Treasurer in relation to Trust Accounts.

Mr HIGGS:

asked the Prime. Minister, upon notice -

On what date does he propose to introduce a Bill to legalize the expenditure of £2,068,000 for the purchase of a Commonwealth line of steam-ships ?
Is he aware that on the 14th December, 1916, the Minister for Trade and Customs, speaking for the Prime Minister, said, ‘ “ A measure to deal with this . matter will shortly be introduced.” (See Hansard, 14th December, 1916) ?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– I refer the honorable member to the reply given to his previous question on the subject.

page 1147

QUESTION

SULPHATE OF AMMONIA : EXPORT

Mr PIGOTT:

asked the Prime Ministor, upon notice -

Whether he will place an embargo on the export of sulphate of ammonia, and so protect the interests of agriculturists by conserving for them a necessary fertilizer?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– A proclamation prohibiting the export of sulphate - of ammonia without the consent, in writing, of . the Minister for Trade and Customs, was gazetted on the 10th instant.

page 1148

VALUATION OF LAND BILL

Mr PIGOTT:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice-

Whether he proposes to follow the. example of New Zealand in introducing a Commonwealth Valuation of Land Bill, providing for one . standard of valuation to be applied to lands resumed for repatriation and closer settlement, also for Federal and State land taxes, probate . duties, and municipal rates?
If so, will he bring in. a Bill at an early date? .

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– The matter will receive consideration.

page 1148

QUESTION

AUSTRALIAN IMPERIAL FORCE

Single and Married Men: Soldiers’ Letters

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister representing -the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Whether he will state -

How many, single men have volunteered as members of the Australian Imperial Force since the declaration of war?

Also, how many married men?

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are - 1 and 2.- It is not possible to give the information, asked for in respect of men who have volunteered, but the following figures. which have been compiled in respect of 255,148 embarkations, are furnished : -

Mr FINLAYSON:

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice -

Whether it is true, as stated in the press, that it is proposed to stop delivery of letters and parcels sent by soldiers abroad to friends in Australia if they contain certain information likely to be of use to the enemy?
Whether this action is due to any failure on the part of the Censor to stop such information being sent?
Whether some method, short of actual stoppage of delivery, cannot be adopted to meet the necessities of the position?
Whether it is proposed to advise persons to whom (letters and parcels are addressed in each case, as it occurs, that delivery wills not be made, because of a violation of the departmental decision ?

Mr JENSEN:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes.
No. The notice in question is’ in the nature of a warning to the persons concerned as to the action that will be taken in such cases. 3 and 4. It is expectedthat the warning will be sufficient.

page 1148

QUESTION

COST OF BAKING BREAD

Mr SINCLAIR:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

asked the Prime Minister; upon notice -

Whether it is ‘true that day baking of bread costs the consumer.¼d. per loaf more in Sydney than it does in Brisbane or other cities where night baking is resorted to?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– I am advised that the increased cost by day baking is approximately one half-penny . per 4-lb. loaf.

page 1148

QUESTION

PRIME MINISTER’S DEPARTMENT

” Intelligence Offices.”

Mr HIGGS:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice - .

Whether a new position, viz., that of “ intelligence officer “ has been created in his Department recently?
What are the duties of the said “ intelligence officer,” the salary he is to receive, and the allowances by way of expenses?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

-The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

The position has not yet been created, but provision for it has been made on the current year’s Estimates.

The duties, briefly defined, include, inter alia, the preparation of matter for public information arising out of the activities of . the Prime Minister’s Department and the Government’s financial and commercial schemes; the’ proper arrangement and cataloguing of the large number of newspaper cuttings, and official and other publications from all parts of Australia and the Empire, and extracting therefrom information relating to matters of local public interest and to Australia generally which are likely to be useful to the Government. ‘ The salary is £504 per annum. There are no allowances by way of expenses.

page 1148

QUESTION

ARMY ORDNANCE CORPS

Mr WEST:
for Mr. Riley

asked the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, upon notice-

Is the Minister aware that the employees in the Ordnance Department are being, asked to enrol in a permanent Ordnance Army Corps ?
As a special Commission is now inquiring into the business part of the Defence Department, and as this corps is being hurried into existence, will the Minister see that everything in this connexion is stopped until the Commission has completed the inquiry and presented its report?
Will the Minister undertake to see that any of the employees who have been in the Department practically the best part of their lives, and who. object to join this ‘corps, will not be penalized or turned adrift as a consequence of such refusal?
As all the employees have to resign their present positions before joining the corps - and many of them have practically a life’s service in the Department - will the Minister see that all rights accruing are preserved to them, and that the retiring age existing under the present regulations will be the same in- the new corps in their cases?
Does the Minister,. in the light of past experience, think that the giving to the Military complete and absolute control in this matter will make for efficiency and economy in a Department that is practically a business institution ?

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Yes. All permanent employees of the Ordnance Department have been invited to state whether they desire to join the Permanent Army Ordnance Corps, and, approximately, 90 per cent. have voluntarily expressed their desire to do so.
So far from this corps being hurried into existence, its formation has been contemplated since 1902, and probably earlier. The object of the regulation in respect to the formation of anArmy Ordnance Corps is to enable this branch of the service to take its correct place in the military organization, as in all other armies of the civilized world. One of the main points aimed at in forming the permanent, corps is to enable a corresponding ‘militia organization to be formed consisting of selected men who are employed on corresponding duties in business houses, and whose services would thus be available to augment the permanent staff and administer all ordnance services in camps on mobilization. The Chairman of the Royal Commission was informed, by the Minister of his intention to take action in this matter and offered no objection. It is not proposed to defer action.
Yes.
That all employees have to resign their appointment is incorrect. Only those serving under the Public Service Act - approximately, 20 per cent. - would be affected. Provision has already been made in the regulations for the conservation of all rights appertaining to the present conditions of the service of these men.
The Ordnance Department in the several States have not been under complete military control at any time. Portion of the staff is under the control of the Public Service Commissioner and portion is serving under the Defence Act. The regulations recently promulgated will eventually abolish the dual control now existing.

page 1149

QUESTION

INDUSTRIAL CRISIS

Sydney Strike

Mr WEST:

asked the Prime Minis-‘ ter, upon notice -

Can he inform the House whether, in connexion with the industrial dispute in New South Wales, the men have any objection to a mere change in clerical work?
Is there not already in existence a system of booking the time, on work which provides ample data for readily arriving at the cost of any and all work?
Can the Prime Minister say whether, at a recent conference between American War Office officials and Mr. Samuel Gompers, President of the American Federation of Labour, on the question of war munitions production, Mr. Gompers laid it down as a condition of labour co-operation in the scheme that the Taylor card system should not be permitted?
Does the Prime Minister know whether a recent report was issued by the Commission appointed by the. Imperial Government to inquire into the question of industrial unrest?
Is the Prime Minister aware that in 1910 Congressman Benger, of Wisconsin, introduced a motion in Congress, in order to save the lives of the workers, making the Taylor card system illegal in any industry?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

I know nothing of the matter’.
I cannot, say.
I do not know.
No.
No.

page 1149

QUESTION

RETAIL PRICE OF SPIRITS

Dr MALONEY:

asked the Minister for

Trade and Customs, upon notice -

Is it a fact that, prior to the imposition of the present duties of Customs and Excise, the retail price of the best brands of imported whisky had been increased from 6s. to 6s. 6d. for a bottleof ordinary size?
Is it a fact that, while the price of imported whisky was 6s., that of Joshua Bros, was 4s. 6d. ; and that when the price of the imported article was increased to 6s. 6d., that of Joshua Bros, rose to 5s. 6d. ?
Was there any advance in the prices of materials or manufacture to justify the increased cost of1s. a bottle on the stock the firm mentioned would, in the ordinary course, have on band?

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

Certain retailers, it is understood, made an increase in price, as stated. The ruling - price in the ‘retail trade for the best brands of imported whisky on the 1st instant was, however, 7s. per bottle.
Joshua Bros. are distillers, and do no retail trade. I am informed that no increase was made by them in their price to the trade.
See answer to No. 2.

page 1150

QUESTION

CORDITE FACTORY

Mr STORY:
BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

In connexion with the site, buildings, and engineering works for the Cordite and Cartridge Factory at Maribyrnong - (a) What was the total amount expended last year; (b) what is the estimated expenditure this year; (c) what was the estimated amount required to complete these works?
Has this proposal been investigated, as required under the provisions of the Public Works Committee Act?

Sir JOHN FORREST:
NAT

– I have been informed - 1. (a) £21,061; (b) £25,731; (c) owing to exigencies of the war it has not been possible to prepare definite estimates of total cost of additions that may be required to the Cordite Factory.

This expenditure has been necessitated to deal promptly, with war requirements. It is regretted that the necessary Order in Council to exempt the expenditure from the provisions of the Public Works Committee Act was not put through. The total given in answers to question (a) and (b) of 1 are made up of separate expenditures, none of which exceed £20,000.

page 1150

QUESTION

DUTY ON SACKS

Mr HIGGS:

asked the Treasurer, upon notice -

Whether it is intended by the Government to remit £165,000 duty on corn and flour sacks, as stated at page 194, Estimates 1917-18?
Can the Treasurer say whether farmers and other users will get the benefit of the proposed remission?

Sir JOHN FORREST:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow: -

Yes.
That is the intention of the remission.

page 1150

QUESTION

EASTERN TRADE

Mr HIGGS:

asked the Prime Minister, upon notice - ‘

On what date was a Royal Commission appointed to inquire into the matter of trade between Australia and Japan, Singapore, and the West Indies?
Who are the members of the Royal Commission, and on what date are they expected to present a report?

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are as follow : -

7th February, 1917.
Senator the Honorable J. J. Long. I am unable to say when the report will be presented.

SUPPLY(Formal).

Apple Trade : Prohibition of American Apples - Maize Crop: Starch Manufacture - German Trade Names and Trade Descriptions - Military Regulations : Commissions - “ Onewomanonerecruit “ Association - Sale of German-owned Shares and Interests - Transfer of Artillerymen to Infantry Corps- Purchase of Commonwealth Steam-ships - Anzao Vote on Conscription Referendum - Horsebreeding : British Blood Stock- Prohibition of German Trading Firms - Labour Press Censorship - Police at Parliament House - Nationalization of Medicine : Sale of Medicine and Drugs - Australian Metal Trade : German Interests - Stockholm Conference: Peace Terms - British Imperial Oil Company- Military Service of Mr. Yates, M.P. - Industrial Crisis.

Question - That Mr. Speaker do. now leave the chair, and the House resolve itself into Committeeof Supply - proposed.

Mr FINLAYSON:
Brisbane

– For some time past various questions have been asked regarding the embargo on the importation of apples from America.’ To-day I sought to get a final reply on the subject from the Prime Minister, but unfortunately we are no further forward now that we have heard his answer. I asked him if he had received a petition from Sydney. I had information yesterday that this petition was on its wav, and a copy of it reached me to-day. It is as follows : -

Sydney, 14th August, 1917.

The Right Honorable W. M. Hughes,

Prime Minister, Melbourne.

Sir,

We, the undersigned, distributors of fruit in New South Wales, hereby request that you reconsider your decision in prohibiting the importation of American apples into the Commonwealth.

We are informed that you are to consider the matter at the end of September. This will be too late to allow of arrangements being made for shipments this season.

At the present time, apples are realizing up to 16s. per case, and, owing to shortage of supplies, will be practically unobtainable in October, except a small quantity now being held by speculators in cool stores.

We feel sure you have no wish to see the fruit trade exploited by these speculators, and trust that you will consider this petition favorably, and give us your decision promptly, as all we ask is permission to import from the 9th October to 14th December,

Duffy Bros. Co. Ltd., D. J. Duffy, manager.

H. Price.

Caddy, Lee, & Co., A. V. Caddy.

Stoyles.
S. Peters.

Weymark & Son Ltd., J. Weymark, director.

H.Reid & Co.

J. Madigan.
H. Trevarthen Ltd.

Bart Allen & Son.

Carroll.
B. Reedy.

Fred. Chilton.

Mr. W. P. Cooksley, writing to me on behalf of the Brisbane fruit merchants, under date 24th July, says-

Dear Sir,

As chairman of recent meeting of fruit importers, I desire to place before you our Queensland position with reference to the proposed embargo on American apples’. As far as it is possible for us to see, the present supply of Tasmanian apples will be exhausted about the end of September.

The present quality is far from perfect, and is in no wise free from diseases, which would in other years have prevented their admission into the States.

From the month of October to the end of the year, Queensland is very short of her own local fruits, which makes her dependent upon imported apples to supply the demand.

In the western districts and inland towns the want of this class of fruit will be felt severely, as it practically is the only fruit that will carry satisfactorily.

Tasmanian apples coming to Queensland out of cold storage late in the year are not a success, as thehalf of them are decayed before reaching here.

Trusting you will impress upon the Minister the importance of this matter.

I have received letters on the same lines from various fruit merchants in Brisbane. The Prime Minister has told us that the fruit-growers do not advise the relaxation of the embargo, unless possibly for the months of December and January. But I can quote opinions expressed by them which are an absolute contradiction of that view. The following is a report of the meeting of the Victorian Annual Conference of Fruit-growers in 1916. * which appeared in the Fruit World of 1st October, 1916-

Mr. Mair (Tyabb and Hastings) moved - “That an increased duty be placed on American apples.” Mr. Griffith spoke against this motion,, as he ‘thought that if the duty on American fruit coming into Australia was increased, America would adopt the same attitude towards Australian fruit, and this would be detrimental to the working up of trade between America and Australia. On the motion being put to the meeting, it was lost.

In the Fruit World of 1st December, 1916, appears the following report of a meeting of the Australasian Conference of Fruit-growers which was held on the 31st October and 1st and 2nd November, 1916: -

Mr. Tucker (New South Wales) moved - “ That increased duties be placed on imported fruits.” He had been a fruit-grower for thirtythree years, and had an up-to-date orchard, but if protection were not secured, he intended to give up the industry, and go in for pigraising. (Laughter.) Australia could store fruit to keep up supplies throughout the year; but America had the advantage of natural ice, which gave cheaper storage. Growers in Australia, should maintain control of the Australian markets rather than build their hopes on a problematical American market. Dr. Benjafield, (Tasmania) seconded the motion. The importation of American apples, he stated, would be ruinous to our cool stores. American Stunners were now fetching 14s. per case on the Sydney market, because they were highly coloured - although tasteless and inferior to the. Tasmanian fruit-whereas he was now getting only 7s. a case on thesame market for his finest Sturmers. Mr. J. H. Lamb- (Victoria) spoke against the motion, and stated that this proposal had been turned down at State Conferences. The present protection was very high, as, including cost of production, freight, and other charges, apples could not be landed fromSan Francisco under 12s. per bushel. The imports of American apples, he thought, was showing a tendency to decrease. Mr. G. Griffith (Victoria) stated that, with the opening of the Panama Canal, they were in a position to land fruit as cheaply in New York as in London.

Mr. Shoobridge (Tasmania) advocated Free Trade in fruit, and said their object, as growers, should be to cheapen fruit, so as to increase the consumption. Australia could grow every kind of fruit as well as any place in the world, and. should be able, to stand against all competitors. As to our coldstorage fruit being killed by imports, he instanced Doncaster, where the cost of storage amounted to only id. per case a week. This left ample margin to meet competition. Mr. Chilton (New South Wales) stated, that they should study reciprocity with other countries. The present duty, on citrus fruits was 4s. 2d. per cental. He had received numerous’ inquiries from America for Australian fruits. The motion, on being put to the meeting, was lost on the casting vote of the chairman.

In the Fruit World of 1st May, 1917, there is this report of the council meeting of the Victorian Fruit-growers Central Association, held on 26th April of this year: -

A letter which had been received from Mr. H. H. Davey from the Fruit World, and published in our last report of the executive meeting, at which meeting a motion was carried in keeping with that carried at the Australian Conference of Fruit-growers, protesting against placing a prohibitive duty on American apples, was read. It was understood that the Prime Minister intended to prohibit the importation of apples during the period of the war. This action was being supported by the New South Wales and Tasmanian Fruit-growers’ Association. A discussion took place as to whether the council should take any further action in this matter. Mr. Mair moved’ that no action be taken by the council. He thought that the reason . the Government intended to prohibit the importation of apples at the present time was because they required the shipping space for matters of more vital importance to the carrying on of the war, also in keeping with the intention of the Government to prohibit luxuries during the war. Mr. Lang stated that recently the Prime Minister, speaking at Harcourt, said that it was the intention of the Government to prohibit the importation of American apples to assist the fruit-growing industry. He understood, however, that, before taking action, the Prime Minister intended to confer with an Advisory Committee. Mr. Lawford stated that the question to be decided was, whether Victoria was in favour of prohibition or not. He favoured a reciprocal trade (Hear, hear!) Mr. Hatfield questioned whether the action promised by the Prime Minister would be to the interests of the Australian fruit-grower, as Victoria could certainly not compete with the American fruit when on the market here, as the quality was much better than the Victorian apples, which had to be taken out pf cool stores. He thought it would be the same on the American market; Australian fruit would be more likely to capture the market than the American coolstored fruit. After further discussion, the following motion was moved by Mr. J. H. Lang (Harcourt): - “That the Prime Minister be informed that this association, and also the Australian Fruit-growers’ Conference, has always been opposed to raising any bar against the importation of American apples, ‘even to the extent of increasing the duty. These associations have had in view the very great possibilities of America as a market for Australian fruit, and, therefore, have at successive annual Conferences favoured the policy of a practically open door. We further desire to say that we do not in any way wish to influence the Prime Minister in any decision he may make with the object of conserving freight during the war.” This motion was seconded by Mr. Hubbard, and carried.

I have now given chapter and verse for my statement regarding the attitude of the fruit-growers of Victoria and Australia generally in this matter. The statements that I have read are in direct contradiction of that of the Prime Minister to-day. The right honorable gentleman is interfering in a matter with which be is not acquainted, and his evident want of knowledge is leading to a most unfortunate position, so far as the fruit-growers and fruit-consuming public of Australia are concerned. .1 have been in almost continuous consultation on this subject with the Minister for Trade and Customs who, being himself an orchardist, is well acquainted with the position. Of course, I have no record of the honorable gentleman’s! opinion, but I am disposed to think that he views rather favorably the request that has been made, particularly from Sydney and Brisbane, for permission for the importation of American apples for the latter part of the year. The Minister for Trade and ‘Customs,- who would naturally be expected to control this matter, is not allowed to give effect to his knowledge; the Prime Minister’s veto overshadows his actions, and the public must suffer in consequence.. On the 26th July the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Higgs), drew attention, to. the price of apples in Australia. One has only to look into the windows of retail shops to see apples ticketed at anything from 5d. to 6d. per lb.,- and information is readily obtainable to show that the wholesale rates for fruit run from 12s. to 16s. per case. To my knowledge, most of the fruit now selling has been in cold stores for a considerable time. It was bought up by speculators at 6s. to 8s. per case, and is held by them in cold stores, and, as it is only allowed to be dribbled but to the public, an artificial shortage is created. The public are not only fleeced in regard to the price, but they are also limited “in the matter of the amount of fruit that is allowed to go into consumption. A rather peculiar commentary on that position of affairs is the fact that almost daily there is a statement in the’ press by the Prime Minister, or by those who are advising him in this matter, pointing out how necessary it is that the public should eat fruit, and particularly how -advisable it is that they should eat apples. For some time we were deluged with all sorts of suggestions in >the press as to how beneficial, useful, and healthy apples were as an article of diet, and as to how easily they could be prepared for the table.

I submitted a question to the Minister for Trade and Customs on the 27th July, and, in reply, he promised to have a return prepared showing the amount of fruit that is available in Australia. % Any determination as to whether apples should be imported should be based upon that information. No honorable member could put up an argument in favour of the importation of apples from America or elsewhere if there were sufficient fruit available in Australia. The information placed at my disposal by the Minister for Trade and Customs has enabled me to form an estimate as to what fruit there is available in Australia. I understand that there are 200,000 cases in Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia. The returns from . Tasmania are not quite complete, but, according to such information as is available, there are probably 200,00.0 cases in that Stately.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– There is considerably less than that quantity in cold storage in Tasmania;

Mr Jensen:

– For the information of the honorable member, I may state that there are about 400,000 cases of apples throughout Australia in cold storage and in orchardists’ sheds.

Mr FINLAYSON:

– I thank the Minister for that information. I was basing my calculations , on a rough estimate of 400,000 cases being available at the present time. On the average, the normal consumption of apples in Australia is about 40,000 cases per week. When fruit is cheap there is no difficulty in disposing of 60,000 cases per week, but 40,000 cases per week is the normal consumption, and, with fruit at its present price, I question whether the consumption now is over 30,000 cases a week. Taking the normal consumption at 40,000 cases per week, the quantity of apples now available in Australia will supply us for not more than ten weeks. If the rate of consumption be reduced, the quantity should last for three months, but that can only be done . by artificial restrictions, either through the imposition of higher prices or by limiting the quantity to be taken out of cold storage. In that way the supply. might be made to last until the end of October.

A request was recently made through the Prime Minister, to the , Minister for Trade and Customs. for permission to import 75,000 cases from America during this season. Last year, when there was a fairly good crop in Australia,we imported 142,000 cases from America, and in order to show that this importation did not have any detrimental or disadvantageous effect on the fruit-growers of Australia, I have only to refer honorable members to the report of the Fruitgrowers’ Conference. They say that there should be an open door. They do not even suggest any limitation as to the number of cases to be imported or any increase of duty. Therefore, if, during a good year, Australia could afford to import 142,000 cases without any detrimental. effect to the fruit-growing industry, it is an easy thing to show that when there is an admitted shortage of fruit, such as we have experienced this year, there should be no trouble in disposing of the limited quantity of 75,000 imported cases, which is all that the fruit merchants are asking to be allowed to import this year.

Mr Fenton:

– Will the honorable member explain why tons of apples were wasted last year because they were not considered worth picking?

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND · ALP

– That was not due to the importation of fruit from abroad. It was due to the local fruit-growers having an extraordinarily good crop.

Mr.Rodgers. - It was due to over production.

Mr.FINLAYSON. - I do’ not think there can be any over production in the matter of fruit.

Mr.Rodgers. - It was the fault of our methods.

Mr FINLAYSON:

– The honorable member is now modifying his statement. He is right in saying that the fault lies in our methods of distribution.. The: main trouble last year was to get the fruit to the people at such a low price that they would be ready to purchase it.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– . Does not the . main trouble lie with the retailers ?

Mr.FINLAYSON. - My experience is that the main source. of trouble. is. the bad facilities provided by railways and shipping companies. If the honorable member for Wide Bay (Mr. Corser) would go down to the wharf and see. the . way in which oranges from Maryborough ‘are handled, he would see a sight that would be enough to make him shed tears of blood. The accommodation that the shipping companies provide for fruit is simply disgraceful.

But the fruit that is . now available in Australia is in cold storage, and the other difficulty, arises that, . when it is taken out of cold storage, it must be put into immediate- consumption or go bad. Within a month the fruit that is now available in Sydney and Brisbane will be absolutely useless, because it will not carry over a journey that will take more than a day by rail or by steamer. Neither Broken Hill, nor Bourke, nor any western town of New South Wales or Queensland can possibly hope to see an apple after the end of this month until February, when probably the new crop will be available. Between the end of the Australian fruit season and the. beginning of the new season, the only.way in which the supply of fruit to the outlying portions of Australia has been maintained has been by importing American fruit.

Mr Fenton:

– Is it not subject to the same disabilities as Australian fruit, seeing that it comes in cold storage from America?

Mr FINLAYSON:

– No; because it is packed so carefully, and treated in such a way that, when it is landed here, it is capable of being carried to any part of Australia without danger of decay or loss. One of the happiest features of progress in Australia to-day is the fact that the fruit-growers are largely copying the American system of packing and preparing fruit for market.

Mr Bayley:

– Would it not be possible to treat the surplus fruit in Australia in the same way, and make it available for transport?

Mr FINLAYSON:

Honorable members will see that last year we exported nearly six times as many cases of apples as we exported this year. The decrease was not alone due to the fact that there was limited shipping space available, but was equally due to the circumstance that we had not the same quantity of fruit available. There is a shortage of fruit this year, and itis in order to make good that shortage that I appeal to . the Minister to remove the existing embargo on importations. I ask him to take that step now because it is necessary to immediately make arrangements if the fruit is to be landed in Australia in time to be of any service, at all. If the Minis_ter waits till the end of September the whole machinery of importation will be thrown out of gear, and instead of the fruit arriving here to supply the market when Australian fruit is exhausted, there will be two or three months of an interregnum between the exhaustion’ of the local article and the arrival of the imported. In any case, if the importation of apples immediately began with, the first ship leaving America, which would be due to arrive here about the 8th October, we could not- possibly import more than 75,000 cases before the end of the year, and that quantity could be absorbed without the slightest trouble, and certainly without any detriment whatever to the fruit-growers of the Commonwealth. Next year, when, we hope, a big crop will be available, we can deal with the importation question in the light, of the circumstances then obtaining. But to-day there is no reason or justification for a continuance of this prohibition. It is unfair to the people of Australia, and will tend to maintain the price of apples at the present rate, with increases as the season advances.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– What did the grower get in the Australian market at’ the beginning of the season ?

Mr FINLAYSON:

– About 4s. or 5s. per case, and at one period it was almost impossible to get buyers. The responsibility -for. that lies with our inefficient methods of distribution. It is not the grower who is getting the’ big prices now, but rather’ the speculators, who have held the fruit in cold storage and forced up the prices. It is all very well to talk about protecting the “grower; the unfortunate fact remains that he is so- much tied up with banks and other financial institutions that he is glad to take the best price he -can get, and, although the wholesalers are getting to-day 16s. per case, the growers from’ whom they bought the fruit probably did not get more than 6s. or 7s. It is not fair to the consumers of Australia, or to the growers of America, that the prohibition of importation should be continued .a day longer.

Mr Fenton:

– Has America surplus supplies to send here?

Mr FINLAYSON:

– There is plenty of fruit available in America. The American crop is like our own - when it is available the growers desire to sell. They can hold uo their supplies much easier than we in Australia can, and thus insure a continuity of supply all through the year. Unfortunately, we in Australia have not reached that stage.

Mr Fenton:

– Is the honorable member speaking of the United States of America or Canada?

Mr FINLAYSON:

– Of both. Of the 75,000 cases of apples to which I have referred, two or three shipments will come from Vancouver and the balance from San Francisco.. If those apples are allowed to land here there would be no competition with the Australian fruit, and our fruit-growers, if the reports of the annual conference are to be taken as a guide, are neither opposed to the importations of American fruit nor in favour of any additional duty, being imposed upon it. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will review this prohibition at an ©surly d.£it&

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

.- I trust that the Minister will give this question most earnest consideration before he removes the embargo on- importations.

Mr West:

– The honorable member is speaking for the Tasmanian fruit-grower.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– I am considering the consumer as well as the producer, and. I nave yet to learn that when the American apple was allowed, to enter Australia free - of duty the” consumer was able to buy apples one cent, cheaper. In fact, prices were higher than they are at the present time. There are no American apples on the Australian market to-day, but there are to be seen in shop windows apples equal to any that have ever been placed before the public. And this, notwithstanding that in Tasmania and other parts of the Commonwealth last season the moisture was so excessive as to give rise to a great deal of black spot, in consequence of which apple-growers suffered considerable loss.”

The honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. Finlayson) failed to inform the House that those for whom he was speaking in making this proposition wanted a fulcrum on which to place a lever to bring down and keep down the price of Australiangrown apples. The apple market has not been cornered by any body of persons in Australia., Small growers in Tasmania have themselves placed apples in cool storage. We have there about 70,000 cases in cool storage, while a number of cases are also stored in orchard sheds. As the honorable member -has stated, at the beginning of the season it

Was not possible to obtain more than 3s., 4s., and 5s. a case for apples. In such circumstances, many small growers refrained from rushing their fruit on the . market. Instead of doing so, they put it into cool storage, and they are looking to the prices prevailing to-day to save them from considerable loss. They are, after all, obtaining only a reasonable price for their fruit.

Mr Fenton:

– What is a payable price?

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– Speaking from my own personal experience, I would say that a grower should receive for his apples at least 5s. a case in the orchard if he is to work his land to the best advantage.

Mr Heitmann:

– That would be a low average price.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– It is a low price.

Mr Bamford:

– In that estimate of 5s., does the honorable member include the cost of cases and packing?

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– Yes.

Mr Finlayson:

– I think it is a fair thing.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– Quite so. I do not hold any special ‘brief for the orchardists of the Commonwealth. There are not many apple-growers in my elec-0 borate, but I am anxious that the industry should be fostered. I have been informed by men who can speak with authority that it is impossible to get’ Australian apples on the American market. That, being so, why should we give the American growers a preference over our own producers?

Much has been done by private enterprise in Tasmania to establish cool stores, and these stores have been successfully employed by the small growers. I am informed that the owner of the cool stores in my State gives the growers better terms than can be obtained in respect of either the Victorian Government cool stores or the co-operative cool stores a little way out of Melbourne. In short, it costs more to put apples into cool storage here than it does in- Tasmania. I am hopeful that cool storage in Tasmania will be considerably increased, so that the small growers may have an opportunity to conserve their supplies, and, by placing their fruit on the market at regular intervals, be able to keep their industry going as a fairly payable proposition. The value at taching to fruit-growing land is given to it only by the trees thereon. I question whether any bank would advance a shilling an acre on orchard land except for the fruit trees upon it. Such land is of very little -value for other purposes. In’ the early days, what was known as third class land in Tasmania could be obtained for 10s., and even 5s., per acre, because its value for fruit-growing purposes was then unknown. To-day the position has changed, and large areas which were at one time thought to be of very little value are now devoted to apple-growing.

I am prepared to show ‘the honorable member for Brisbane a letter” and a cablegram that I have received urging .that the Government should not allow the market to be flooded with -American apples to the detriment of Australian orchardists, who, during the . last two years, have passed through hard times.

Mr West:

– There are on sale in Sydney to-day Western Australian apples which are better than those from Tasmania. N

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– The fruit merchants, who exploit both the public and the grower, are the worst possible menace to the industry.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– And the honorable member for Brisbane has been, putting before the House the case for the fruit merchants of Sydney and Brisbane. As to the interjection, made by the honorable member for East Sydney (Mr. West) I would say that the apple production of Western Australia is very small compared with that, of Tasmania. Western Australian apples are carefully graded, and they colour up very well. Tasmanian apples may lack the colour of those grown in Western Australia, but their flavour is infinitely better. The Western Australian growers get their fruit on the London market a fortnight before the Tasmanian apples, and, catching the early market, thus ob- ‘ tain higher prices.

Mr Heitmann:

– The honorable member will find Western Australian apples being sold in Tasmania.

– I was going to say, further, that the honorable member who is speaking happened to be a member of the Ministry when the purchase was made.

Mr HIGGS:

– I am quite willing to answer that interjection. The Prime Minister had to get the money, and some one had to give authority for the expenditure. This authority could not be got from the Commonwealth without the Treasurer’s consent, and I, as Treasurer, gave consent.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– You were accessory before the fact.

Mr HIGGS:

– But I am not an accessory to the delay in the introduction of a Bill to make the expenditure legal, nor am I responsible for the delay in furnishing honorable members with information as to the methods adopted in the carrying out of the scheme - the number and names of the captains and officers, and all connected with the transaction.

As Prime Minister we have a most eloquent gentleman, who has paraded before the country as a great anti-German. Some honorable members on this side, who have ventured to speak in favour of peace, he has described as pro-German. It will be remembered that the Prime Minister went to England and elec- trifled the people of the Old Country by speeches and methods, which, I think, are open to some criticism.

Mr Fenton:

– Subject to the Censor, of course.

Mr HIGGS:

– I do not think any one censored the Prime Minister’s speeches, unless he censored them himself.

Mr Fenton:

– I refer to your criticism.

Mr Heitmann:

– The statement that the honorable memberfor Capricornia (Mr. Higgs.) made at Bendigo, in reference to the Anzac vote, was not censored.

Mr HIGGS:

– I am prepared to reply to that interjection. I made that statement in regard to the Anzac vote when addressing the electors at Bendigo, and when I wished to prove that in Australia there was an intolerable censorship. I told the audience that I was about to make a statement concerning the Anzac vote which would not appear in any newspaper in, Australia on the following day, and I quoted from a statement which the honorable member for Brisbane (Mr. Finlayson) had shown me in the Glasgow Weekly Herald - as an extract from another newspaper - that the Anzacvote was, I think, 106,000 against, and 40,000 or thereabouts for.

Mr Bayley:

– Did you tell the audience in which newspaper the original statement appeared?

Mr HIGGS:

– I . am not sure that I did. The point is that there was a censorship regarding the Anzac vote; and, after my statement to the people at Bendigo the Prime Minister and his supporters were in a difficulty. The statement was, I believe, kept out of the Melbourne newspapers at the time, but the Government were compelled to allow, it to appear in the Bendigo newspapers in order that they might show I was wrong regarding the censorship. ‘

However, I must revert to the speeches of the Prime Minister in the Old Country. There the right honorable gentleman was spoken of as’ a strong man of action - as not only a man who could talk, but a man who could do things. Recently, I asked a question about some shares that were held by enemy subjects prior to the war. It has been stated in the press that thousands of shares were so’ held at that time, and that they are now in the hands of the Public Trustee. The question I asked was how many of the shares had been sold, and the Prime Minister’s reply was, “ None.” . This is a very curious answer, in view of what appears in the book entitled The Day, and After. This book is described on the title page as containing more speeches by the Right Honorable W. M. Hughes, Prime Minister of Australia, with a preface by the Right Honorable Lloyd George, M.P.’, and as “printed by authority.” The price marked is1s.; but I understand that at Cole’s Arcade, in Sydney, some hundredweight or more of the volumes are marked “ This lot 3d. each.” Mr. Lloyd George, in his preface, describes the speeches in very eulogistic terms.

Mr Anstey:

– What is’ the flag of which a picture appears on the cover of the book?

Mr HIGGS:

– The flag represents the rising sun, ‘ which, of course, is the Japanese emblem; though I do not know what the honorable member means by his remark.

Mr Anstey:

– I do not mean anything; I merely ask a question.

Mr HIGGS:

– In one of these forceful speeches, on the need for a national policy, delivered at a conference at the City Chambers, Glasgow, on 28th April, 1916, the Lord Provost Dunlop in the chair, the Prime Minister, describing what had been done , with the Germans in Australia, said -

Now, what we have done is this:- “We,” of course, means the Australians -

We have wiped all these agencies out in Australia.

– The matter was. under consideration when the honorable member himself was Treasurer.

Mr HIGGS:

– Apparently the Prime Minister still has it under consideration. I have never made a speech telling the people that a thing had been done which had not been done. The Prime Minister has misled the people with an inaccurate statement. The sooner the general public gets to know that it can rely very little on what he says the better.

Mr CORSER:
Wide Bay

.:- Some time ago the producers of maize throughout Queensland approached the Prime Minister,, through me, among others, to see what could be done to stimulate their industry, and, on the 8th of this month, I received the following letter from the Prime Minister’s Department : -

With reference to your letter of the 29th May, and previous correspondence on the subject of the maize crop, I am directed by the Prime Minister to inform you that, in reply to representations in this connexion, the British Government advised that, as there was insufficient tonnage for wheat and flour, they were unable to negotiate for the purchase of by-products of maize.

I am to add that, so far, maize-growers have not availed themselves of.the invitation of the Prime Minister to organize, and submit for consideration, a scheme for dealing with the problem, in view of the absence of oversea freight.

Mr ANSTEY:

– I suppose they cheered because they appreciated the fact which the honorable member disclosed to them. The reason which the honorable member quoted is one of those to which I was leading, but it is not the only reason. It is the especial argument of Rodgers and Baillieu, and the other members of the metal ‘gang, that the flooding of the market with a large number of these German shares at this particular juncture would destroy the value of their shares. That would be a perfectly legitimate consideration for the Government to take into account, but if that is the reason . for not selling the shares, why do not the Government say so ? Do not make bogus excuses or pretences. Do not tell the people that you have eradicated’ the last element of German influence when you have not. Say straightforwardly that the reason you axe not putting the shares on the market is that the flooding of the market -with the property of Germans would depreciate the value of the shares of other large holders in the metal companies of ‘ the Commonwealth. Those shares could not be put on the market without destroying the value of the shares of the metal gang, and they had to choose between the interests of their pockets and the interests of their country - whether they should lose money or should destroy the Germanic influence, and take away German interests in Australian industry. Faced with that alternative, they said, “ Let the Germans retain their interests rather than that we should lose any of the value of our shares.”

After sixteen months the Germanic interest in these companies is still retained, and we have had the argument advanced that the shares are not put on. the market because that course would affect the interests of the present British holders. On the other hand, we are now again told that they are to be sold forthwith.

Mr Jensen:

Mr Poynton:

– It is not true that there were 500 police in the basement.

Mr ANSTEY:

– I was careful to use the words “ more or less.” As a matter of fact, the basement was crowded with police. I went down to have a look at them. I also wished to give the people the information that a fire brigade was close at hand with about a thousand yards of . hose ready to squirt water on the people outside this building. I was not allowed however, to make known that fact to the general public. Why was my question suppressed ? The answer is that the Government did not want the country to know what was being done in that direction.. Such absurdities of suppression do no good to the Government or any one else.

There are two fundamental facts with which Ihave dealt. The first has reference to the outrageous censorship unfairly and improperly exercised, and the second relates to the assertions which have been made as to the extermination of German influence in Australia. That, assertion is a fraud on the public. German ownership in the industries of Australia is as great as it was at the beginning of the war. I do not believe that the Prime Minister - I shall say nothing about his colleagues - has any real intention of eradicating German holdings in the industries of Australia. When the war is over those interests are going back to Germanic companies, and the talk that we have heard as to the eradication of German influence is the biggest flam that was ever perpetrated upon a great Democracy.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– I regret that the Prime Minister was not present while the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Higgs) and the honor able member for Bourke (Mr. Anstey) were addressing the House. It is just as well that his absence should be known to the public, since it will ‘ explain why many statements made by those honorable members, and which will go into wholesale consumption, were allowed to pass unchallenged.

Dealing first of all with the statements made by the honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Higgs), I may say at once that I do not approve of what I might describe as the almost vindictive spirit in which he approached the question of the German metal interests’, and the action taken by the Prime Minister in regard to them. At the same time, I feel that he has raised a very grave issue, the importance of which has been emphasized by the honorable member for Bourke (Mr. Anstey). As one who took a very keen interest in the efforts made to eradicate the German interests in the Australian metal industry,I feel that the country is entitled to. know whether or not any direct German interests will benefit in the use that has been made of our base metals since the outbreak of the war. The whole matter ought to be cleared up.

Mr Higgs:

– The honorable member will admit that the companies to which reference has been made are making huge profits, and that the shareholders must participate in those profits.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– As I pointed out while the honorable member for Bourke (Mr. Anstey) was speaking, the market value of these base metals to-day is very different from what it was when steps were . taken to eradicate the German interests in these companies. Immediately after the outbreak of war there was an almost complete dislocation of the trade, but soon after it was put on a different footing. And it is the position at that stage which ought to be definitely cleared up. If the statements which the honorable member for Capricornia and the honorable member for Bourke have made are true in substance, then we have not tackled this question as we should have done. The honorable member for Bourke mentioned a man in the public life of Australia who, he said, had, before the war, some association with German interests. The nature of that association or connexion the honorable member did not tell us, but he went on to say that today this public man had resumed his former relationship with the’ German companies. That is a very grave charge, and it cannot be allowed to rest where it is. If, in Australia, any man during the course of this the most bloody war in the history” of mankind, has allowed himself to be associated with enemy interests, then the matter cannot be allowed to rest where it is. Those responsible for the statement, as well as the gentleman named, and the Prime Minister, who has handled this question from the first, cannot allow it to stop where it is.

Coming to the question of the ownership and value of these shares, there must be something wrong” with the trusteeship which has been set up in respect of those shares if residents of Germany are still allowed to participate in the profits made by the companies concerned as the result of the base metal industries of Australia. The honorable member for Capricornia (Mr. Higgs) made a clear-cut distinction between international policy with regard to territory taken, in war and the individual rights in property of the citizens of belligerent countries. Between the two he drew a clear line of demarcation, and I hold that in the trusteeship under discussion an equally clear line should be drawn. On the day on which these shares were taken over they should have been valued, and any subsequent increase in their value should go to the Empire, and not to Germany.

Mr Kelly:

– Why not go backstill further, and fix the values as from the outbreak of war?

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– We could not do that, since for a certain time after the outbreak of war enemy subjects were allowed to hold shares in these companies.

Mr Mathews:

– We should take the date on which they had the least value.

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– No; we must deal honestly with them. All interests in these shares passed from these people as from a particular date.

Mr Anstey:

– Is the honorable member aware that the very substance of the litigation between certain Germans, the Union Company, and Frank Snow was the question of valuation?

Mr RODGERS:
WANNON, VICTORIA · LP; NAT from 1917

– We already have Papua, and are not putting it to any use except as a buffer to Australia. It is of no use to the Commonwealth so far as its occupation by white men is concerned. And so I say that the question of the retention of captured German territories could be readily settled. The time may come when we shall be glad to have on the islands near our shores white instead of coloured men. The friends of to-day are the ‘ enemies of to-morrow, and vice versâ.

I have been suggesting what I think might be put forward as our minimum peace terms. As to Poland and AlsaceLorraine, the question of what shall be done with them is on all fours with that of the question of Home Rule for Ireland. It should be left to the people of those countries to deal with, and not , to the consideration of men who have not for those particular countries the feelings that their own people have. I maintain that Britain and her Allies would not show any sign of weakness in demanding what I have sugested as minimum peace terms. I would not have peace for one jot less. As to conquered territory, the British, in times gone by, have been just as flagrant in . their actions, and just as much to blame, as have other countries. It is high time that we considered the matter. . Millions of men are being killed and maimed ; and yet those of us who talk of peace are charged with being proGermans. We should suggest terms ofpeace, showing the irreducible minimum that we can accept, always providing for reparation for the injury done. I know I shall be asked whether we are not to impose some punishment on Germany for the killing of Nurse Cavell, Captain Fryatt and others, and demand, as civilized communities, reparation for actions of that sort.

Sir William Irvine:

Mr.PALMER. - From the Dutch East Indies. The company has sent out broadcast over this country a letter in which it tries to make it appear that “ Shell “ benzine . should be used in preference to any other. There is no justification on the score of quality for using that brand of benzine in preference to any other, because oil of the highest quality is obtainable in the United ‘ States of America, nor is there any justification on the score of price, because there are American oils which can be obtained for less; I speak with knowledge, as being one of the oldest motorists in Australia.

Mr Boyd:

– What does the honorable member use in his car?

Mr PALMER:

– The oil that gives me the best results, as any common-sense man would. “ Shell “ benzine does not give the best results. Moreover, its use prevents Australia from getting shipping which would take its products toother parts of the world, and it gives employment, for the most part, to the people of coloured races. I say, in reply to this impudent letter, that the people who consult their own interests will not use this particular commodity, and I say fairly and squarely that I would hit the company in the face in regard to this matter. The users of “ Shell “ benzine, moreover, use it to the disadvantage of the Commonwealth as a whole. I say that those who exhibit boards advertising the fact that “ Shell “ benzine, imported by the British Imperial Oil Company, is to be had within, would, if they were true to their best interests, pull them down, and deal in benzine calculated to give better results to Australia as a whole, and at least equally good results so far as car owners are concerned.

Mr TUDOR:
Yarra

.- When the honorable member for Echuca (Mr.

Palmer) was speaking, I looked round the gallery to see if any representative of the opposition oil firm was there, but I feel sure that they fight fairly for any trade, and would not use any unfair tactics. When the honorable member spoke of himself as one of the oldest motorists in Australia, it occurred to me that his trumpeter must be dead, since he was reduced to blowing his own trumpet. We know that there are two companies in Australia which compete for the sale of benzine and petrol. The honorable member has told us that when he last discussed this matter on a motion for the adjournment, of the House, he was prevented, by want of time, from placing his case fully before honorable members. But I find that he was granted an extension of time in order that he might state his case fully. I hold no brief for any company.’ Any one who had been at the head of the Customs Department as long as I was must know men in every line of business, and I have met the managers of both of these oil companies. A few weeks ago the honorable member for Henty asked whether the Prime Minister had obtained information from the British Government concerning the British ImperialOil Company, and the Prime Minister’s reply was -

Curtain information has been received from the British Government in regard to our inquiries relating to this company-

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

– Is the honorable member quoting from the report of the debates of the present session?

Mr TUDOR:

– I am quoting, not the report of a speech, but an answer to a question - to the effect that the British Imperial Oil Company was a British company, and that there were no reasons why it should not be treated as such.

Mr Palmer:

– Did I not say that the company is registered in Great Britain ?

Mr TUDOR:

Mr YATES:

– I am sure the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Boyd) would not wilfully do me an injustice; but it was unkind of him not to ascertain the facts before making a charge against me. I accept his assurance that he did not make his remarks, as some honorable members have done, splenetically, and with a desire to hurt my feelings.

When speaking on the Public Service Bill recently, I attempted to place on record the circumstances of my enlistment. I had reached the stage when I was obliged to receive dental treatment; and, since then, I have had a gun accident which has destroyed ohe of my teeth, and I have had to have another tooth inserted. So “ honorable members will see that I have lost something for the Empire. I knew that remark would bring a loud guffaw from the honorable member for Hindmarsh (Mr. Archibald) who, during the election campaign, said he had made the doubtful sacrifice for the Empire of losing his seat. However, the honorable member got under the National party’s umbrella, and did not lose his seat; so that he has not even lost a tooth for the Empire. i assure honorable members that I am prepared -to make a sacrifice. I have not yet asked to be relieved of the obligations I undertook when I joined the Expeditionary Force in October last. I cannot say that of other members of the Force. I could say a little on that point if I liked to open my mouth, but that is not my desire. Up to December last, .1 was eligible to be drafted into any unit, either Artillery or Infantry. At about that time, the new recruiting scheme was launched by the Prime Minister, and tho onus was thrown upon every honorable member to become the chairman of tho Recruiting Committee in his electorate. I received a letter to that effect from Mi. Mackinnon; and’ it was necessary for me, if I was to fulfil my obligation as chairman of the committee, to obtain leave for two months. I did that; and, at the end of that period, being dissatisfied with the rate of recruiting, I desisted, and went into Camp on the. 1st March. On entering Camp, I was asked which aim of the Service I desired to serve in, aud I made it quite clear to Lt.-Colonel Dollman, the Officer Commanding Mitcham Camp, that I had no desire to kill or be killed. I said that the taking of human life was opposed to the principles of the party to which I belonged, and to “ my own instinctive principles; and, if there was any vacancy in the Army Service. Corps, I would prefer to serve with it. On the 23rd March, I had received no reply to my application, and I went to the Officer Commanding A Base, where the unattached men were congregated, and told him I was desirous of having a reply as to whether I could enter the Army Service Corps or not. At that time, I was working in the office of the Army Service Corps; and, on that same afternoon, an orderly brought to me a minute, which stated that my application of the 23rd March had been forwarded to the 3rd Military District Head-Quarters. I wrote on the minute that I had duly noted its contents, but that my application was made on the 1st, and not the 23rd March, and I would be pleased, if finality could be expedited. Six weeks elapsed from the time I enlisted before I received a reply that I could not join the Army Service Corps. I again went into the office at A Base, and I was asked what arm of the Service I intended to join. I replied to the young returned soldier who asked me the question, “I do not know anything about it. What would you do?”- He replied, “ If I were you, I should go into the Artillery.” “Why the Artillery?” He said, “ Between you and me, there is no foot-slogging in the Artillery, and you have not the same graft to do in that service; but I warn you that if you do get hit, you are cleaned- up.” I said, “ You know more about it than I do, and I am content to take your advice.” I put in my application to be transferred to the Artillery, and in that service I am to-day.

Before quoting the letters which have passed between me and the Minister for Defence, I wish to inform the House of the reasons which actuated me inwriting them. The honorable member for Henty (Mr. Boyd) inferred that I had used political influence.

Mr Boyd:

– I said there was an appearance of political influence.

Mr YATES:

-Political influence in my case extended this far, that if any soldier has had less leave for personal convenience than I have had he has had none at all. I did apply for leave for the afternoon and evening when the honorable member for Yarra (Mr. Tudor), as Leader of the Opposition, came to Adelaide to address a meeting in my constituency, but Lieut. - Colonel Doll man refused my application. . My commanding officer asked . me if I wished to be paraded before Lieut. -Colonel Dollman, and I replied in the affirmative. When I appeared before him Lieut. - Colonel Dollman said, “What do you desire to say?” I said, “I have been treated distinctly unfairly.” He said, ‘ You cannot say that in the Military Forces.” “What can I say?” I asked. “ You can say you are dissatisfied.” I. replied, “If I were not dissatisfied, I would not be here.”’ After further remarks by him, . I said, “ That does not alter the opinion I had when I came here.” He said, “I have nothing to do with your opinion.”’ I said, “ Very well, sir, good day.” A few days later I received another letter which raised my ire, and I was again paraded. Lieut. -Colonel Dollman was not present, but I told the Camp Adjutant that I had finished writing through the ordinary channels of the. military organization, and in future I would, in my capacity as member for Adelaide, write to the Minister for Defence direct. He said, “ If you do that it will be at your own risk.” “ What risk do I take?” “ You break the King’s regulations.” “ What particular regulation do I break?” “ I do not know, but you infringe the. War Precautions Act.” “ Very well, I will infringe the War Precautions Act.” I did so, and here I am. I telegraphed to the Minister for Defence, asking for leave to attend Mr. Tudor ‘s meeting, but the message passed through several channels, and only reached the Minister when he was on the boat. Even then I received no reply. The outcome was a letter to the Minister for Defence, and . I ask honorable members to note the tone of the Minister’s reply, in order to see if there was any political influence or bias in my favour.

Copies of the letter were sent to the three daily papers in Adelaide, but never saw the light of publication. ‘ The Minister is too safely hedged about by his censors, and there remained only the one way of making my position known to the people of Adelaide, and that was by addressing a meeting in the Botanic Park. I took the risk of action under the War Precautions Act, and made the contents of the letter public at that gathering.

Mr Higgs:

– Does every recruit have the same experience as . the honorable member has had ? ,

Mr YATES:

– No; ‘ but when I am charged with having used political influence, I wish to assure the House that I could get more than one man from Mitch am camp who would say that when I was there they “ rubbed the dirt into me.” I do not mind that, but I hope to return from the Front some day, and be able to say that I did something for the Empire apart from making money out of the war. If honorable members will note the tone of the letter and subsequent telegrams exchanged between the Minister for Defence and myself, they will see whether I am in his good books or not, and whether an honorary colonelcy is coming my way without my earning it. I do not see myself getting more than 6s. per day all the time I am on the job, butI shall not be dissatisfied. I am content to be with , the boys, and do my duty with them, and I shall be able to hold up my head more honorably than those who have gone to Europe for the money they can get out of the King’s service, and who see only the smoke, of the battle, and do not feel the punch.’ I do not say that with any desire to hurt the feelings of my parliamentary confreres in the Army. My association with the miltary organization has not been at all irksome, and I do not regret having enlisted. I sent the following letter to the Minister for Defence in Western Australia.

Adelaide, 25th April,. 1917.

Hon. G. F. Pearce, ,

Minister for Defence,

West Australia.

Dear Sir,

I regret that it is necessary for me! to have to take up the attitude I am now doing, but I feel that no other course is open to me if X am to retain my self-respect and that liberty to which I think every individual is entitled, be he citizen or soldier.

On the11th instant, I addressed a letter to you, through the Camp Commandant, which, from the nature of the reply that I have received I cannot conceive was ever brought under your - notice, hence the present communication.

The letter referred to was as follows: - “Mitcham Camp, 11th April, 1917. “Dear Sir,

I desire to bring under your notice what appears to be an injustice that not only affects myself, but any member of the Australian Imperial Force that happens to be a South Australian.

When I returned to Camp from recruiting leave, on 1st March, I applied to he drafted into the Army Service Corps, and was informed that I should have to pay my own fare to Melbourne. This I agreed to do, but heard nothing further of my application until the 26th idem, when a minute was brought under my notice stating that my application of the 23rd instant had been forwarded to the 3rd Military District for decision.

On Wednesday last-

That was prior to the 11th April - just three weeks after, I was informed that my application could not be granted-

It will thusbe seen that it took the Military Department nearly six weeks to deal with a simple request from a member of the Forces to be drafted into the corps which he had selected. I was told that I could select my own corps, and I only asked for what every man who enlists has a right to ask.

Mr Boyd:

– What was meant by the reference in that letter to the honorable member paying his own fare?

Mr YATES:

– They only recruit in Melbourne or Sydney for the Army Service Corps. If a South Australian was lucky enough to obtain a call to join the Army Service Corps he was burdened with the payment of his own fare to Melbourne.

Mr LAIRD SMITH:
DENISON, TASMANIA · ALP; NAT from 1917

– But the honorable member could travel ‘ on his- own gold pass.

Mr YATES:

– This military man did not know that. I did not tell him that, as a member of Parliament, I had a gold pass which would carry me from Adelaide to Rockhampton. He did not know that the Commonwealth would pay my fare. . I told him that I. would pay my own. The honorable member . need not worry about that matter. The letter continued -

On Wednesday last, just three weeks after, I was informed that my application could not be granted, as there was no vacancy in the A.S.C. at present.

This accepted as gospel; but, during the Easter week, I made mention of the facts to a visiting member of the Australian Imperial Force from Victoria, when he informed me that it was all nonsense, and that recruits were being accepted every day in Victoria for that unit.

I could not get in from South Australia, but in Victoria they were taking recruits for that unit every day. The honorable member for Robertson (Mr. Fleming), as a matter . of fact, got into that unit in Melbourne. I do not say that he had any political influence. It was an easy matter for him, however, to get into it, whereas I could not. He may be a blood-thirsty individual. I do hot know whether he is or not. I certainly am not, and I made that fact quite clear. I also made it clear to Colonel Dollman that if room could not be found for me in the Army Service Corps, and if fight I must, I would not refrain from going into the fighting line. I merely wanted that liberty and that consideration which is accorded to every member of the Forces. The letter continues -

My informant is an officer- and he had more than three stripes -

My informant is an officer, and reliable, so that I desire that inquiries be made into the matter, as it is distinctly unfair, not only to myself, but to others who should have just the same opportunity as the resident of any other State.

As a case in point, in the office where I have been doing duty for the past six weeks, there was a young fellow who had been rejected three times for active service, but eventually passed, and signified his intention to join the A.S.C. He has been . here for nigh on twelve months, and has a thorough knowledge of the work, but he was advised not to apply, as there was no chance for a South Australian. He has since joined the Light Horse; but, as he has a minor defect, he is fearsome’ that, in the last test, he will be rejected; while, for the business in which he has been engaged, and which he desired to continue, he would have been a reliable and zealous soldier.

I cannot help but express the opinion, in view of my experience, and what J have stated, that the consideration given to each application is of the foregone-conclusion character, and that it is a farce to make them.

Another matter I desire to refer to. is the refusal by the Camp Commandant of my request for leave in accordance with Circular 23526, relating to leave to members of the Australian Imperial Force who are candidates for Parliament. I trust that the fact that 1 was fortunate enough to meet with no opposition to my candidature will not debar me from the leave asked for, as it is my desire to join in the campaign just as if my seat was being contested. 1 therefore desire that you will consider the matter without delay, and grant me the leave asked for. 1 shall esteem it a favour if you will treat this matter as urgent. (Signed) G. E. Yates.”

I also applied for leave to attend Mr. Tudor’s meetings on Thursday last, but again met with refusal; and I wired you protesting, hoping that the rigorous application of discipline might be revoked under the Special circumstances. I am informed that my wire did not reach you until after you had embarked for Western Australia, for I received no reply; which may he my bad luck.

To-day I received the reply to which I refer, which is as follows: -

I would specially direct the attention of the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Boyd) to this reply, which I received from the 3rd Military District, or, in other- words, from the authorities at the Victoria Barracks, St. Kilda-road, Melbourne - “ The leave for candidates for Federal Parliament is intended for those members of tho Australian Imperial Force in Australia who are being opposed in their seats. Private Yates is’ not being opposed, and should not, therefore, be granted leave. It is time that this soldier should be sent on the duty for which he enlisted.”

That was what they said in Melbourne on 26th April. I am still- here. What in heaven’s name is the matter, I want to know ?

Mr Manifold:

– Who signed that reply ?

Mr YATES:

– It is only an extract from what was shown to me as a minute. My letter continued -

I deeply resent the insult conveyed in the last sentence, that I am a malingerer; and, though such methods and tactics may be applied to discredit those who have gone overseas and cannot defend themselves, I do not intend to allow the same third degree to be applied to me in silence.

When I enlisted in the Forces, I did so without any reservation, and no man has had less leave than myself’ for personal convenience.

When the Prime Minister first promulgated his recruiting scheme, and I was advised by Mr. Mackinnon that I was to be the chairman of the Adelaide District Committee, I accepted the responsibility, and applied for the necessary month’s leave. The fact that that mouth was wasted was no fault of mine, and I ap. plied for still a further month ; but, ‘ as 1 thought that the necessary amount of vigour was not being imparted into it by the Central Committee, ‘1 informed my committee that I would ask for no further leave, but would go into Camp on March 1st. This I did, and immediately applied for inclusion in the unit mentioned in my letter; but five weeks elapsed before a reply was received, and that onlyafter my inquiring what had become of my application. I then applied to join the Artillery, the unit I am now attached to.

– The honorable member said that I was drafted into the Pioneer Corps. As a matter of fact. I went into camp at the Exhibition. We had there what was known as a Hospital Camp consisting of men whose teeth had to be attended to. There were three sections, consisting of (1) those who had good teeth,

those who had second class teeth, and
those who were considered to have third class teeth. It was only when I went to Mitcham that I was to be drafted into a unit. So far as I know, I was never drafted into one. When I went to Mitcham, I was asked to which unit I desired to be attached, and I named that which I have already mentioned.

Mr Boyd:

– My point was that the honorable member got into the Artillery after the military authorities had asked the Artillery for volunteers for the Infantry.

Mr YATES:

– The honorable member is wrong again. I shall come to that matter. My letter continued -

There is nothing to prevent the Department Shipping me as soon as it thinks fit.

I could not say more than that. When I first wont into camp I told my wife, and those dependent upon me, to be prepared for my going away before Christmas. I told them to do all their crying between then and Christmas, because I did not expect to remain in Australia after the New Year. Honorable members may smile, but I did not volunteer for fun. I am not as insincere as some honorable members opposite are in their talk of winning the war.

Mr Boyd:

– Since the honorable member is making a joke of the matter, to which Christmas did he refer?

Mr YATES:

– Seeing that my dad is seventy-nine years of age, it is not likely that 1 would have hazarded the belief that he was likely to see two Christmas days ahead. Common sense suggests that I was referring to the Christmas then next ensuing. The letter continues -

You will see that any delay in my departure has not been connived at by me, and I throw back the gratuitous insult-

This was not the sort of letter that was likely to secure for me political influence - and suggest that a return be prepared showing how many more men have been delayed by a like prompt attention to correspondence, the number of men who have been in Camp the same length of time as myself, and longer; and the number of “ Tennyson’s Brooks “ there arc holding higher rank than myself, and the reason for them?

That does not suggest that I was seeking any political influence -

Perhaps the more genuine the soldier, the less the respect; but’ I venture to suggest that such’ tactics are not only discreditable and dishonorable, but are subversive of a policy for winning the war.

I am supplying a copy of this letter to the daily press, in my own defence.

Yours faithfully,

Yates.

Mr Boyd:

– To whom was that letter addressed ?

Mr YATES:

– It was addressed to the Minister for Defence on the 26th April last. .

The House has now all the facts as to my position. The accusation made against me by the honorable member for Henty was also made on one occasion by the South Australian Commissioner for Public Works, Mr. Harry Jackson, at a public meeting which was attended by Senator Russell, who was then Assistant Minister for Defence. , I sent a telegram to the Minister for Defence asking him to contradict the statement on my behalf. He telegraphed, in reply, asking me in which newspaper the statement made by Mr. Jackson appeared. The meeting, in question was held in front of the Trades Hall, and the local newspapers do not report such meetings. That being so, they did not publish the statements made on that occasion by Senator Russell, when he said that he had held at one time or another every Federal portfolio. He said, in effect -

Oh, I am a cook and a captain bold,

And the mate of the Nancy brig,

And a bo’sun tight, and amidshipmite,

And the crew of the captain’s gig.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– Hear, hear!

Mr YATES:

– That is what the Minister’s pal - that is what his offsider - practically said of himself. He went even further, and said, “ There is not a man in Melbourne who has done more for Labour than I have.” Some one in the crowd interjected, “What about Teddy Findley?” Then, in a weak sort of a way, Senator Russell replied, “ Oh, he is an older man than I am.” If some one had asked, ‘What about Steve Barker?” he would have dropped dead. I telegraphed to the Minister for Defence asking him to lift the censorship from this letter, so that it might go out to the public. I got this wire from the Minister -

Cannot approve any publication in press of this matter, which entirely one of discipline and administration Australian Imperial Force, and in which you must take same course as any other soldier.

– The rules of the House prevent my doing so.

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order!

Mr YATES:

– As a further refutation of the suggestion of the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Boyd) as to political influence exercised on my behalf, I should like to relate some other circumstances. At Easter time, we got word that the men in camp were to have Good Friday and Easter Saturday as holidays. In South Australia, Easter Monday is something of a national race day, on account of the Onkaparinga races; and, as the men in camp were mostly “ sports,” there was general dissatisfaction with the holiday arrangements. I wired to the Minister for Defence (Senator Pearce) pointing out the position, but, knowing ‘that my influence with him was not very great, I telephoned to the Minister for Home and Territories (Mr.Glynn),telling him what I had done, and asking him to assist in getting the holiday extended. That gentleman acquiesced in my request. In reply to my wire to the Minister for Defence, I got the following reply: -

Have fully considered question of Easter leave, and regret cannot authorize variation of instructions issued. ‘

That was before the Minister for Home and Territories had communicated with the Minister for Defence; but after he did communicate with him, I received another wire, as follows: -

My telegram you yesterday cancelled. Have issued amended instructions leave to be from conclusion afternoon parade, Good Friday, until midnight Easter Monday.

What I could not do, . the Minister for Home and Territories could do.

Mr Glynn:

– I think the telegram from me to the Minister urged that the same rule should prevail in South Australia as. in Victoria.

Mr YATES:

– I do not know what the honorable gentleman’s telegram was, but the telegrams I have read were those I received from the Minister. I hope I have completely proved that I am not responsible for my remaining in Australia longer than is necessary. I hope I have sat isfied the honorable member for Henty (Mr. Boyd) that there is no suggestion of political influence, or of any bias in my favour, in the Defence Department.

Mr Boyd:

– To be candid, you have.

Mr YATES:

– I have hidden nothing, and embellished nothing, but simply placed the facts before honorable members. I do not ask for consideration, but only for a fair dealand no favour.

Having spoken of my own case, I would now like to give an instance of what political influence can do. We had a secretary in South Australia, Captain Olifent-, who had had twenty-nine years of military experience, and who went to Duntroon with a view to qualifying himself for a position in the Australian Imperial Force, but failed. It was stated, however, in the daily papers that he had enlisted for the Front; and the following Is the kind of letter that the Prime Minister sent to him on that occasion: -

Allow me to offer you my congratulations. It is redolent of fine spirit, and expressive of the Characteristics of the mind from which it springs. I am sure your action will do great good, and that it will serve as a clarion call to those who still hesitate.

Fine language ! Either that letter was written in collaboration with the Minister for Defence, or the Minister for Defence copied the Prime Minister, or the Prime Minister copied the Minister for Defence, as this and another letter I shall read will show. The letter of the Minister for Defence to Captain Olifent was as follows; -

I applaud your decision to join the Australian Imperial Force, and congratulate you on the step you have taken. I feel that you have acted as you . have done out of regard to the necessities of the present situation, and trust that your example will be a call to those who still hesitate.

Then the Minister for Home and Territories took a hand in the laudation of this soldier - the soldier’ who is not a soldier. The honorable gentleman wrote as follows : -

Captain Olifenthas, by enlisting, given an effective stimulus and personal example in regard to volunteering. I know from my intimacy with . him as a member of the State War Council, that he was mainly actuated by a sense of patriotism and duty. His volunteering for service at the Front will have a good effect upon the people. He certainly has excellent qualifications by his long training in the Military in times of peace, as well as in war. He has been an energetic member of the War Council, and is familiar with the pressing problems before it. He has a physique which shows he bears his moderate years well. All this goes to show that he should be a valued member of the Australian Imperial Force.

– The honorable member cannot think that of him after having’ read his letter. The honorable member does not understand the meaning ‘of the word “ gentleman.”

Mr ARCHIBALD:

– The speech of the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates) was a characteristic one. It is a pity that he could not defend himself without making an attack on Major Olifent, who is at present on the high seas. Major Olifent, like Senator Colonel Rowell, was connected with the Volunteer Forces of the Commonwealth for more years than I care to remember. Year in and year out these officers and others donned the King’s uniform and attended parades on Saturdays and other occasions, being often insulted for doing so. They then formed the nucleus of our Defence Force. When war broke out the Fisher Administration, of which I was a member, determined to give these officers, who. had devoted the best years of their life to military work, the opportunity to go to Duntroon to study for examinations enabling them to obtain commissions in the Expeditionary Force. It was thought a matter of justice and equity that we should do that instead of giving all such commissions to young men of twenty-two or twenty-three, who naturally could pass examinations more easily than men in middle life. Parliament and the people indorsed that determination of the Ministry. It is possible that Major Olifent did not pass his examinations, because we know how difficult it is for a man of middle age’ to do what is easy for a young man. Still it will not bedenied that there are many men wearing the King’s uniform who are able and efficient officers in spite of the fact that they have not passed examinations. Many of those who have been promoted on the field of battle in Flanders have not done so, and will not be asked to do so. So far as that is concerned, that is nothing to be said in disparagement of Major Olifent.

As for transport service, the Minister has stated on more than one occasion that it is desirable to employ officers who are too old for active service, and thus relieveyounger and more active men. Elderly men by reason of their experience and tact, are often more valuable for transport officers than younger men would be. Senator Lt.-Colonel O’Loghlin has made several trips in charge of transports. The attack made on Major Olifent by the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates) was caused by spite and. malignity. The honorable member might have waited till Major Oilfent had returned to Australia, and should not have used his position in the House to attack him in his absence. To my mind, his action was contrary to fair play. Men in uniform should not be allowed to stay here for over twelve months at a time when recruits are being called for. It is continually being asked, in the district of Hindmarsh, as elsewhere, when recruits are asked for, “ Why is not soandso at the Front?” I have known young men to be sent abroad within six weeks after they entered camp, and some of them have been killed within a year of their enlistment. Yet men of the stamp of the honorable member for Adelaide loaf about month in and month out for over a year without going away. This is a matter in regard to which the Defence Department should make some explanation. When men are asked to enlist they say, “ Why does not so-and-so go away?” We have heard the record of the honorable member for Adelaide (Mr. Yates). Let us see what the Defence Department has to say of him. If the Department is, correct, we ought to have it placed on record ; if it is not correct, the sooner it is withdrawn the better. It is as follows: -

With further reference to your letter dated 27th ultimo, inquiring as to the circumstances of the enlistment and military service of Gunner G. Yates, I am directed to inform you, in reply to your questions (which are returned herewith ) , as follows : -

No.8.9122 Gunner G. E. Yates was enlisted on the 30th October, 1916, and reported for duty in camp on the 4th November, 1916. He was allotted to the 9th Reinforcements of the 5th Pioneer Battalion, which embarked on 10th February, 1917. He was given, leave of absence from the 22nd November, 1916, to the 1st March, 1917, for recruiting purposes, and, therefore, could, not be embarked with the Pioneer Reinforcements. He was accordingly transferred to the Base Infantry Details for allotment to an . infantry reinforcement. On the 1st March, 1917, he applied to be transferred to the Army Service Corps, but was informed that there were no vacancies for the Army Service Corps in South Australia. His application was referred to the Commandant, Melbourne, as to whether there was a vacancy in the Army Service Corps Reinforcements in Victoria. The Commandant, Melbourne, reported that no vacancy existed.

Private Yates then applied for transfer to the Artillery Reinforcements, and was accordingly transferred, on 15th April, 1917. On 23rd May, 1917, he was transferred from South Australia to Maribyrnong Camp, Victoria, for training in artillery work, where he now is.

On 20th June and 3rd July, 1917, urgent appeals were made to the men in Maribyrnong Camp to voluntarily transfer to infantry reinforcements, owing to the reduced number of artillerymen required by the Army Corps Commander, and owing to the shortage of infantry reinforcements.

It. is understood that Private Yates was present when these appeals were made. He was not one of the men who responded to the appeal. He will probably be embarked for service abroad about the middle, of September, in the first transport to take artillerymen from Victoria.

– I have no reason to ask for it. I am prepared to take the coal lumpers’ side. I belong to the working class, and I am prepared to take their view unless I am shown absolute evidence to the contrary. Although I am still ayoung man, I have had sufficient experience to know that men do not strike for fun. I have had personal experience of the men engaged in the trouble in New South Wales. I worked on the Sydney trams for a period, and I know that the employees of that system are not the men to strike without extraordinary grievances. Whether the men were right or wrong in the belief that the obnoxious card system would do them an injury, the fact remain’s that they honestly believed it would. Do honorable members wish to believe that men who have grown old and grey in the Service, and who risk the forfeiture of their superannuation rights, would strike for a mere whim - that they were going to ruin everything for the purpose of securing a holiday ?

Mr Boyd:

– They were scared of their leaders.

Mr CONSIDINE:

Is it not remarkable that workers in Australia, who are forced out of employment, or whoby reason of the fact that their conditions have become intolerable, are compelled to take action to obtain redress, are held up as anti-patriots? It is said that they are the paid agents of Germany. One cannot pick up a newspaper in whichthere is not a reference to a strike, under such head-lines as “ More German Influence,” or “More German Money at Work.” And yet we find that in . Spain, Italy, France, the United States, England, and, indeed, every country having any pretence to civilization where industry has been established the same conflict between labour and capital is going on.

Mr Mathews:

– It has also been going on for years in Japan.

Mr CONSIDINE:

– Japanese workers have been on strike. Even in China and India strikes have occurred. Wherever capitalism has raised its head and the exploitation of industrial development has taken place we find the same conflict going on. In every case the cause is the same. The conflict is due, not to German influence but to the conditions under which men and women are called upon to work. At the back of all this talk of patriotism, and of all the talk of crushing out German trade, in which honorable members opposite love so much to indulge, there is but the one idea. The only concrete, evidence of German influence so far as Broken Hill is concerned is that of German names to be found in the list, of shareholders in the mines there.

Mr Fenton:

– All theGerman influence is on the other side.

Mr CONSIDINE:

– It is. Speaking of industrial conditions. I am reminded of a statement bearing on the question of industrial trouble which was published in that revolutionary newspaper the Age on 1st August last. This is not an extract from a red-rag paper, or from the Industrial Workers of the World Direct Action. but from that eminently respectable organ the Age. In its leading columns it wrote : -

The time is steadily approaching when the Government of the Commonwealth will have to choose between continuing its present policy -which isintrinsically a policy of strike promotion, and the creation of general tumult and disorder - and adopting a policy scientifically calculated to banish discontent; that is to say, a general policy of price fixing.

I wish to point out to honorable members who desire to know why various unions are striking which are not directly interested in the dispute between the Railways Commissioners and their employees, that possibly a solution of the question may be found in the general unrest and discontent. As has been pointed out in the selfsame leading article in the Age -

– I do not care where you got the statement from - it is not correct.

Mr CONSIDINE:

– I do not propose to take up any more time. I felt that it was absolutely necessary that something should be said about the Government’s refusal to take any action towards bringing about, or attempting to bring about, a conference between the people engaged in, the present industrial upheaval. Instead of any attempt being made on behalf of the Government who are interested, in spite of the statements made that the strike is absolutely ruining any chance of Australia effectively participating in the war, any help is absolutely refused by the head of the Government to bring about a peaceable solution. I hope that honorable members will not be put off with the statement of the Prime Minister, but will see that some efforts are made to. bring about an amicable settlement.

Debate (on motion by Mr. Greene) adjourned.

House adjourned at 10.44 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 16 August 1917, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1917/19170816_reps_7_82/>.

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House of Representatives16 August 1917

QUESTION

PATROL BOAT, SYDNEY HARBOR

Mr JOSEPH COOK:Minister for the Navy · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

BUREAU OF NATIONAL SERVICE

Mr BOYD:HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:Attorney-General · BENDIGO, VICTORIA · NAT

QUESTION

TRADING WITH THE ENEMY

Mr ANSTEY:BOURKE, VICTORIA

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr ANSTEY:

Mr HUGHES:NAT

Mr ANSTEY:

Mr HUGHES:

Mr Anstey:

Mr HUGHES:

Mr ANSTEY:

QUESTION

MILITARY POLICE AT PARLIAMENT HOUSE

Mr POYNTON:GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr HUGHES:NAT

Mr Boyd:

Mr Boyd:

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:

Mr FENTON:MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:

PAPERS

QUESTION

KALGOORLIE TO PORT AUGUSTA RAILWAY

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr WATT:Minister for Works and Railways · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

QUESTION

AMERICAN FRUIT

Mr FINLAYSON:BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:NAT

QUESTION

PUBLIC WORKS AND PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEES

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:

Mr HUGHES:NAT

Mr HUGHES:

QUESTION

ZINC PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION

Mr GREGORY:DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr HUGHES:NAT

QUESTION

DEPORTATION OF UNDESIRABLES

Mr GREGORY:

Mr HUGHES:NAT

QUESTION

INDUSTRIAL CRISIS

Mr CONSIDINE:BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:NAT

Mr FOWLER:PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr JOSEPH COOK:NAT

Mr Fowler:

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

Mr BRENNAN:BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

Mr MATHEWS:MELBOURNE PORTS, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:

QUESTION

SHARES OF ENEMY COMPANIES

Mr ANSTEY:

Mr HUGHES:NAT

QUESTION

BONUSES FOR INDUSTRIES

Mr FENTON:

Mr JENSEN:Minister for Trade and Customs · BASS, TASMANIA · NAT

QUESTION

IMPORTATION OF LUXURIES

Mr KELLY:WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:NAT

Mr TUDOR:YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:

QUESTION

STOCKHOLM CONFERENCE

Mr BRENNAN:

Mr HUGHES:NAT

QUESTION

House of Representatives
16 August 1917

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Minister for the Navy · PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES · NAT

Mr BOYD:
HENTY, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · BENDIGO, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr ANSTEY:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

Mr SPEAKER (Hon W Elliot Johnson:
LANG, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr FENTON:
MARIBYRNONG, VICTORIA

Mr RICHARD FOSTER:
WAKEFIELD, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr WATT:
Minister for Works and Railways · BALACLAVA, VICTORIA · NAT

Mr FINLAYSON:
BRISBANE, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr GREGORY:
DAMPIER, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr CONSIDINE:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr FOWLER:
PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
NAT

Mr BRENNAN:
BATMAN, VICTORIA

Mr MATHEWS:
MELBOURNE PORTS, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr JENSEN:
Minister for Trade and Customs · BASS, TASMANIA · NAT

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

Mr TUDOR:
YARRA, VICTORIA

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

Mr CONSIDINE:
BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP; IND LAB from 1920

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr PIGOTT:
CALARE, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Sir JOHN FORREST:
Treasurer · SWAN, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · NAT

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Sir JOHN FORREST:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr WEST:
EAST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr JENSEN:
NAT

Mr SINCLAIR:
MORETON, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr HUGHES:
NAT

Mr WEST:
for Mr. Riley

Mr JENSEN:
NAT