House of Representatives
8 November 1910

4^th Parliament · 1^st Session

POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT.
QUESTION
- IMMIGRATION
CONTROL OF RIVERS
QUESTION
- STOCK QUARANTINE
QUESTION
- PUBLIC SERVICE
QUESTION
- SYDNEY NAVAL ESTABLISHMENTS
QUESTION
- CHORISTERS AND DANCERS’ UNION
COMMONWEALTH PROPERTIES
- Municipal Rates
QUESTION
- NORTHERN TERRITORY : PROTECTION OF ABORIGINES
QUESTION
- PROHIBITION OF DRUGS AND CHEMICALS
QUESTION
- PROTECTION OF CHILD LIFE
QUESTION
- DEFENCE DEPARTMENT
PAPERS
QUESTION
- MINIMUM WAGE
POSTAL RATES BILL
- Second Reading
SHALE OILS BOUNTIES BILL
LAND TAX ASSESSMENT BILL
ADJOURNMENT
- Land Tax Commissioner - Postal Commission’s Report

Mr. Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m., and read prayers.

page 5738

POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT.

Post Office Cleaners - ImportedPoles - Dangerous Telegraph Poles - Perth Telephone System - Wireless Telegraph Station, Fremantle - Victorian Telephone Service : Spindles and Telegraph Poles. Dr. MALONEY. - As good news has circulated through some branches of the Public Service, I ask the PostmasterGeneral if he has any for the cleaners connected with the Melbourne General Post Office, some of whom receive only 20s. or 25s. per week?

Mr THOMAS:
Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The cleaning of the General Post Office is done by women, though, personally, I think it should be done by men. However, the system of employing women has been in vogue for a long while, and as those employed are generally widows with families, I should be loth to alter it. As it is recognised that 20s. a week is small pay for them, the Government has decided to increase the amount to 25s. a week.

Mr ANSTEY:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

– Can the PostmasterGeneral say whether, as stated in the press yesterday, his Department is importing castiron poles for telegraphic and telephone wires in Western Australia? Could these not be made locally?

Mr THOMAS:

– The honorable member was good enough to show me the newspaper extract to which he referred. I knew nothing of the matter before, but shall make inquiries in order to ascertain what is being done.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– Information has reached me that a telegraph pole has fallen at Eastern Hill, in the vicinity of several churches and this building, and that there are other poles in the neighbourhood in a dangerous condition. I desire to ask the Postmaster-General whether he will cause inquiries to be made in the interests of the safety of the public?

Mr THOMAS:

– I shall be glad to have the matter inquired into.

Mr TUDOR:
Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

– On Thursday last the honorable member for Perth asked a ques tion regarding the telephone arrangements in Perth and its suburbs, and between Perth and Fremantle. An interim reply was given, but I am now furnished with the following report from the Deputy PostmasterGeneral for Western “Australia : -

Manager of Telephones reports that a record for the month of October shows that no complaints were made by subscribers within the metropolitan network of delay in obtaining connexion with suburban subscribers.
On 18th July complaint was made by the North Fremantle Council that junction line facilities between North Fremantle and Perth -and Fremantle were inadequate. Investigations showed that delays in obtaining connexion were few, but in-order to fully meet traffic an additional line has been asked for. From an analysis of troubles affecting junction line traffic it is found that no delay equalling ten minutes or more, caused by junction line equipment being inadequate, has occurred since 1st September.
To overcome slight delays which have been noted by the Department, further junction lines have been asked for, and are being provided with respect to six out of eight metropolitan exchanges. Two additional aerial junction wires between Perth and Fremantle were brought into use on the11th October, 1910.

Mr HEDGES:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

asked the PostmasterGeneral, upon notice -

Has the site for the proposed wireless telegraph station at. Fremantle been finally decided upon by the Government and accepted by the contractors?
If the site is fixed, when will the work be put in hand?
What is the amount of the contract for the Fremantle station?
On what date was the tender accepted? 5. On what date was the contract signed?
What is the date for the completion of the contract ?
On what date was the deposit of One hundred pounds paid?

Mr TUDOR:

– The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

No.
See answer to No.1.
The amount of the accepted tender for the Fremantle station is £4,150.
On 4th April, 1910.
The formal deed of contract has not been signed yet. See answer to No. 1.
Fifty-two weeks from the date of the acceptance of the tender.
1st March, 1910.

Mr ANSTEY:

asked the Postmaster-. General, upon notice -

Is it a fact, as stated in the Age of 26th October, that a consignment of spindles of the wrong pattern was ordered for the Victorian telephone service?
How many were ordered, and what was the cost of the mistake?
Were the local manufacturers required to alter their machinery in’ order to make these new spindles?
Has a similar mistake been made in ordering insulators for Victoria or New South Wales?
Is it a fact that the telephone wires are being placed underground in Little Collinsstreet, Flinders-lane, and William-street?
If so, why are new poles being erected in Little Collins and William streets?
If the reason is that they are to take the place of condemned posts, how is it that the condemned poles still carry the wires, although the new poles have been in position since February and March last?
If these “condemned” poles have stood the strain for eight months, could they not remain in position until the wires have been undergrounded and all poles have been removed ?
When will the underground ing in the Little Collins-street-William-street section be completed, and when will the Lonsdale-street Exchange be opened ?

Mr TUDOR:

– The following information has been furnished by the Deputy Postmaster-General, Melbourne, and the Chief Electrical Engineer: - 1 and 2. No ; but-

Mr Anstey:

– How can the first and second questions be answered in that way?

Mr TUDOR:

– I am reading on behalf of the Postmaster-General the answers supplied to the honorable member’s questions. As the honorable member is aware, the Postmaster-General is not well, and asked me to read the replies to the questions put by him. If the honorable member is not satisfied I cannot help it. The answers are as follow : - 1 and 2. No, but about 2,000 spindles to fit a new pattern of telephone insulator were ordered and used with some of the new insulators. The cost of these spindles was £29 3s. 4d., but they were all used with the new insulators, and there was no extra cost.

The local manufacturer would have to alter his die to the new thread, but it was a small matter and did not affect the cost.
The threads on some of the spindles in use in Victoria and New South Wales had to be reduced to fit insulators recently received. These insulators were ordered in pursuance of the policy which has been followed for some time past of endeavouring . to standardize material in use throughout the Commonwealth, many different types of insulators and spindles having previously been in use in the various States.
It is a fact that telephone wires are being placed underground in Little Collins-street, Flinders-lane, and William-street.
The new poles are being erected in Little Collins and William streets to maintain existing services until the underground services are available.
The wires will be removed to the new poles as soon as men can be spared to make the transfers, which takes some time.
It would not be safe for the condemned poles to remain in position until the wires have been placed underground.
The tunnels and conduits in Little Collins and William streets section are finished. The cable is being drawn in and jointed, distribution being made to the blocks as rapidly as possible, but this is a laborious and intricate business. It is hoped to transfer the City Exchange to the Lonsdale-street building about July or August, 1911.

page 5739

QUESTION

IMMIGRATION

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

– Has the Minister of External Affairs read the following paragraph, which appeared in the London letter of a recent issue of the Melbourne Herald -

London, 7th October. - There seems to be scant hope of making up for the failure to secure sufficient accommodation on outgoing liners for settlers under the Mead scheme. Matters in that respect remain much as they were last week. ….. The suggestion has been put forward that if British liners cannot accommodate even one-half the intending settlers who are desirous of leaving here in the course of the next five months, recourse should be bad to some other means of getting away the overflow. So far as I can find out, no attempt has been made to arrange with either the Messageries Maritimes or the Norddeutscher Lloyd Companies to take some of the people out on a basis similar to that existing with the Orient and other companies.

Can the Minister say whether it is true that the British liners cannot accommodate even half of those who wish to leave the United Kingdom to settle in Australia, and, if so, will he, before spending more money on advertising in Great Britain with a view to attracting immigrants, see that adequate accommodation is provided for those who have already made up their minds to come here?

Mr BATCHELOR:
Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

– I have read the paragraph referred to, and am surprised that official representations have not been made by the States on the subject of passenger accommodation. If the services of the High Commissioner and our officers in London can be used to improve matters, they will be at the disposal of the States, as I think it desirable that every opportunity should be given to enable those who desire to come here to get here with the least trouble.

page 5739

CONTROL OF RIVERS

Mr BAMFORD:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

– On Thursday last I’ asked the Acting Prime Minister if his attention had been drawn to the following paragraph, published in that morning’s. Argus -

The Premier (Mr. Verran) intimated in the House of Assembly to-day that on Tuesday he would ask for leave to introduce a Bill to authorize the construction of weirs, dams, and locks, and other works on the Murray River for navigation and irrigation, and for other purposes.

It has been arranged that a Parliamentary trip, attended by practically all members of both Houses, shall leave Adelaide for Melbourne on 6th December, and proceed to Mildura, where the party will board a steamer, and come down the river to Murray-bridge, inspecting the sites of the locks, and various irrigation and reclamation works along the river during their progress.

The honorable gentleman promised to let me know whether he would take steps under section 98 of the Constitution to have the Commonwealth represented.

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

– The Commonwealth has no power to interfere in regard to any action taken by any State for the construction of locks or irrigation works in connexion with any running stream in Australia, nor have we the right to be represented at any inspection. All that we may do is, if the navigability of rivers is threatened, to exercise our powers under the Constitution. Until then we may not interfere. The States, therefore, may do anything in the way of preliminary inquiry or continue to act until they reach the point when the navigability of rivers is threatened.

page 5740

– I took it that it applied to all restrictions on the passage of produce between one State and another. Has the Minister done anything in that matter yet?

Mr TUDOR:

– Yes, I have instructed departmental officers to obtain for me the fullest particulars relating to inspection fees. The question of wharfage due’s was not raised until to-day, but 1 shall see that it is added to the list of subjects for inquiry.

page 5741

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE

Increases of Salary

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– A paragraph appeared in the New South Wales and Victorian papers within the last two or three days stating that a large number of public servants had had their salaries almost doubled, in the teeth of the Public Service Act, and against the recommendation of the Public Service Commissioner. Can the Minister of Home Affairs state whether that is true? If not, will he correct it in an interview or by some other method ?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

– I ask my honorable friend to give notice of the question, so that I may look into the matter.

Sir WILLIAM LYNE:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

– With regard to the question asked by the honorable member for Parkes, it has been stated that the Minister intends to override the Public Service Act by giving to members of the Public Service either bonuses or salaries, not provided by the Act. I wish to ask the Acting Prime Minister if that is correct. If it is, will he take action to amend the law so that he may act within the law and not override it, and make it of no effect, as the Sydney press stated the other day was intended?

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

– It is not the intention of the Government to break the law. The payments will be made without involving a breach of the law, as the extra amount will be paid by way of allowance. As I have already explained, we shall in that way avoid interfering with rights of seniority and other matters which would otherwise be involved and necessitate a rather extensive amendment of the Public Service Act. That we cannot attempt at this stage of the session.

page 5741

QUESTION

SYDNEY NAVAL ESTABLISHMENTS

Mr FRAZER:
Minister (without portfolio) · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

– On the 27th” October, the honorable member for Lang, on behalf of the honorable member for Wentworth, asked the following question: -

What is the estimated present value of the various naval establishments at Sydney?

The information has now been received, and is as follows : -

page 5741

QUESTION

CHORISTERS AND DANCERS’ UNION

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

– In view of the fact that all the leading theatrical firms in Australia have agreed to their employes joining the Choristers and Dancers’ Union, and that only Mr. J. C. Williamson’s company have beaten their employe’s by a technicality, I desire to ask the Attorney-General if he will take action should Mr. Williamson prevent any of his employes joining the said union?

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

– My attention was drawn to the matter by direct representations made by some persons who are or were members of the union to which the honorable member has referred. They stated, as the honorable member has done, that there was an interference which amounted in effect to a prohibition on the right of these men and women to become members of an organization for the purpose of registering under the Conciliation and

Arbitration Act. I asked them to put their statements in writing, and support them with any facts they had at their disposal. I may say, to be perfectly candid and fair, that representatives of Messrs. Williamson and Company waited on me this morning, and told me, I presume officially and formally, that Mr. Williamson had no objection to the formation of a union, nor to members of his company becoming members of such an organization; but I understood there was a reservation to the effect that he did object to persons outside his employ becoming officers of the association.

page 5742

COMMONWEALTH PROPERTIES

Municipal Rates

Sir WILLIAM LYNE:

– I wish to ask the Minister of Home Affairs -

Is it the intention of the Government to consent to have its property situate in various municipalities made subject to municipal taxation ?
If not, what steps does it intend to take in order that the property should bear its share towards the maintenance of public conveniences in these municipalities?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
ALP

– No. We propose simply to go on as previous Governments went on before we took charge.

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

– In view of the statement that the present Government proposes to follow on the lines of their predecessors with regard to accepting municipal services and evading payment therefor under the terms of the Constitution-

Mr SPEAKER:

– Order. The honorable member is going beyond a question.

Mr KELLY:

– I wish to ask the Minister whether he will follow the lead of the preceding Government by giving the most earnest consideration, which that Government promised, to the injustice now suffered by municipalities in order to see if some rough-and-ready methbd, such as is adopted in England, may not be arrived at, so that the Commonwealth may pay for the services it receives.

Mr KING O’MALLEY:

– If the honorable member asks only for serious consideration such as my predecessor gave the matter, I can promise him that he will have it.

Mr KELLY:

– I ask the Minister whether his Government will give to this question, not merely his serious consideration, but the same earnest consideration as was given by the late Government?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:

– I cannot speak for the Government as a whole; I can speak in this matter only for myself.

page 5742

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY : PROTECTION OF ABORIGINES

Dr CARTY SALMON:
LAANECOORIE, VICTORIA

– As it is possible that the Northern Territory may come into the possession of the Commonwealth before next session, I wish to ask the Minister of External Affairs whether he will indicate before the close of the present session the steps that the Government intend to take for the protection and control of the aborigines now resident in the Territory ?

Mr BATCHELOR:
ALP

– I think that I answered a similar question put by the honorable member a few days ago. As a matter of policy is involved, I ask the honorable gentleman to give notice of his question.

page 5742

QUESTION

PROHIBITION OF DRUGS AND CHEMICALS

Dr CARTY SALMON:

– I wish to ask the Minister of Trade and Customs whether, in view of the fact that his Department has taken steps to protect the public from the importation of certain drugs and chemicals, he will lay on the table of the House the papers affecting the matter?

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

– I am not sure that I car promise to do so. Although we have power under the Commerce Act to prohibit the importation of certain drugs and chemicals, it is quite possible that it might be held that we were going beyond the law if we advertised or made public through the press the names of the chemicals and drugs in respect of which action had been taken.

Dr Carty Salmon:

– Will the honorable member lay the papers on the Library table?

Mr TUDOR:

– I cannot promise to do so, but the papers will be available for inspection by any honorable member who desires to see them.

page 5742

QUESTION

PROTECTION OF CHILD LIFE

Grants to Institutions

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Acting Prime Minister, upon notice -

Will he take into consideration, in order to save the lives of the Australian babes, the necessity of placing on the Estimates a sum of money in order to grant to any institution the sum of 5s. per week for each child during the nine months that the mother would be under the shelter of such institution, such nine months to date from three months before the birth of the Australian babe to six months after the birth?

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

– This matter is one of vital importance; but it cannot receive attention at this stage of the session.

page 5743

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Physical Fitness for Active Service - Use of Air- ships.

Mr KELLY:

asked the Minister representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

What arrangements are made in the Imperial Army to insure officers being physically fit for active service?
What arrangements are made in the United States Army to insure the same result?
Are senior or other officers in the Commonwealth Forces called upon to prove their physical fitness for active service?
What steps does . the Government propose to take to test the physical fitness for active service t>f officers now on the active list of the Commonwealth Forces?

Mr FRAZER:
ALP

– -The answers to the honorable member’s questions are -

Officers of the Imperial Army have to pass a medical examination before proceeding on active service.
Field officers are required to undergo an annual test. 3 and 4. All officers of the Commonwealth Military Forces would be called upon before being detailed for active service to pass a medical examination.

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

asked the Minister representing the Minister of Defence, upon notice -

Will he lay on the table of the House the papers in connexion with the letter written by Mr. Austin, a Victorian State officer, on the advisability and economy of using air-ships in the defence of Australia, which was forwarded to the Prime Minister by the late Sir Thomas Bent, then chairman of the InteT-State Conference of Premiers ?

Mr FRAZER:

– There is no objection to the papers being laid on the table of the Library. .

page 5743

PAPERS

MINISTERS laid upon the table the following papers : -

Public Service - Female Medical Officers - Papers re Appointment of.

Immigration Restriction Act - Provisional Regulations - Statutory Rules 1910.

Papua - Ordinance of 1910, No. 14 - Supplementary Appropriation 1910-11, No. 1.

Excise Act - Tobacco Regulation No. 8 Amended (Provisional) Statutory Rules 1910, No. 107.

page 5743

QUESTION

MINIMUM WAGE

Mr RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

asked the Minister of Home Affairs, upon notice -

In view of the statement of the Public Service Commissioner that the trouble over the small salaries paid in the Postal Department in New South Wales was owing to his kindness in allowing ex-telegraph messengers to re-enter the service, will the Minister please state how many ex-telegraph messengers sat for each examination held since 1907, for letter carrier, postal assistant, and mail driver?
What percentage do they bear to the total number of candidates that sat?
The total number of candidates at each examination ?
Will he state how many telegraph messengers have been retired in ‘New South Wales under section 10 of the Public Service Act, under the headings, “qualified for promotion,” “unqualified,” since 1907 ?

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
ALP

– The Public Service Commissioner reports -

At the first examination (No. 86) held in New South Wales on the basis of salary in accordance with age, 120 ex-telegraph messengers were candidates. At the later examinations candidates were not required to indicate whether they had previous service, and the desired information cannot, therefore, be supplied in respect to these examinations. 2 and 3. At examination No. 86 there were 216 candidates, of whom 120, or 55 per cent., were ex-telegraph messengers.
The retirements of telegraph messengers in New South Wales since 1907 were as follows : -

Qualified for promotion, nil.

Not qualified for promotion, 1907, 27.

Not qualified for promotion, 1908, 8.

Not qualified for promotion, 1909, 11.

Not qualified for promotion, 1910, 6 (to

31-10-10).

page 5743

– I am speaking, not for New South Wales, but for all the States. According to the present Chairman of Committees, uniform penny postage should not be adopted because any financial loss that might result must fall on the people. He said -

The estimated loss of£208,000 in the first year will have to be made good out of revenue, and the man who posts two or three letters in the course of the year will contribute as much to the amount necessary to make good that deficiency as will the- business man who sends thousands of letters through the post, and will thus reap the chief benefit of the reduction.

Figures were quoted to show how low the payments made to many employes in the Post Office are; and the honorable member concluded by saying that -

While it is all very well to be generous, as he is in the proposal which he has placed before the House, he should, in the first instance, be just to those employed by the Department. It must be remembered that any loss accruing from a reduction in postage will have to be made good by the people of the States.

– We are not far out in many things.

Mr KELLY:

– We are very far out so far as the London postal arrangements are concerned.

The earlier we get to grips with this question the better it will be ,for the people of Australia. The Bill is to come into force on a date to be fixed by proclamation. What is the objection to fixing the 1st January definitely as the date of commencement? I do not recollect a case where a Minister, in introducing a Bill to be brought into force by proclamation, has objected to state definitely the date on which it is proposed to put the Act into effect. The matter is of great importance, as every user of the postal service will want to know when the Act is to come into operation. To fix the 1st January next will certainly give greater satisfaction to the people and to the House, and also to the honorable member for EdenMonaro, to whom so much is due for having urged the reform in its early stages.

I should be the last to blame the people of Victoria as a whole for the piece of sharp practice perpetrated by the Victorian Parliament just before Federation was entered into.

Mr Austin Chapman:

– They must have been very poor lawyers.

Mr KELLY:

Mr McWILLIAMS:

– I am glad to hear it. I have always denounced the system as being foreign to the principle on which our postal service should be conducted. When the business of an allowance office becomes so large that some one is asked to enter into a contract to provide a building for ic and to attend to the business, an official office should at once be established.

Mr Thomas:

– I do not say that I have absolutely decided the matter, but appearances suggest that the system will be done away with to a large extent.

Mr SPENCE:

– The introduction of penny postage will reduce the income of many contraCt offices, with the result that their status will be affected. The rule of the Department is to make a contract office an official post-office when its income reaches £400 per annum. I am glad that the Postmaster-General recognises that something should be done in this connexion. We have no right o ask outside people to give their services unless we pay them a fair and reasonable wage, and such a wage would be better if given to our own trained officers, who have some guarantee of permanence and may look forward to promotion. Many of the outside officials have their own businesses to attend to, and, though some of them are glad of the position at first, they afterwards find the remuneration too small. Indeed, one woman, I understand,” wrote to the Department declaring that she would close the office on the Monday if she did not get an increase ; and I give her-credit for her courage, under a sense of injustice, in declaring a strike against the whole Federation. In this case the postmistress’s house was originally about the only one in the place, but with a railway in view the population has increased, and there is a probability of officials in such a position being overlooked . by the inspectors, even under the present regulations. I have no doubt, however, that the Department has come to some arrangement with the lady, because she had good grounds for complaint. These matters present a bis problem which will have to be dealt with, I suppose, next session ; and I hope the Postmaster-General will give every consideration to the grievances I have brought under his notice.

Sitting suspended from 6.30 to 8 p.m.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

.- There is no service which enters so closely, into the daily life of the nation and the people as that of the Post Office, and there is no service which we could less dispense with.. As a consequence, any proposal to increase postal facilities will, I am sure, all other things being equal, com mend itself to honorable members on both’ sides. But when the honorable member for Eden-Monaro, as Postmaster-General, introduced his Bill in 1906, one of the great pleas he made was the necessity for uniformity ; he considered that, in a country like this, there should not be those anomalous conditions which we know to exist in different parts of Australia. If the case for uniformity was good in 1906, I believe there are much more weighty reasons now in its favour. Up to the end of this year the Braddon section and the bookkeeping sections continue to operate in such a way that each State pays for the peculiar facilities it enjoys in its postal service. Victoria, under those sections, simply pays for the advantage she enjoys; and in the same way New South Wales, which has penny postage in the principal centres of population, pays in her return of Customs and Excise revenue. At the end of this year those sections cease to operate; indeed, to all intents and purposes they are non-existent to-day, though they nominally operate up to the end of December. It will be seen, therefore, that the conditions which are now anomalous will then become doubly so ; and New South Wales, South Australia, Queensland, Tasmania, and Western Australia, will immediately begin to pay for the facilities which Victoria enjoys in the way of penny postage. It becomes absolutely necessary that there should be uniformity ; and if the PostmasterGeneral puts that forward as a reason for the introduction of this measure at the present time, he must see that the measure ought to operate from the 1st January.

Mr Thomas:

– The bookkeeping system i=; practically finished to-day.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I know it is practically finished, but it nominally runs to the end of December. If there be any force in that argument at all, it is only an argument that the Bill should have been introduced earlier, and that there should not be the delay of a single day in its coming into operation. As, however, at the end of ..this year we see the cessation of the operation of the Braddon section—

Mr Thomas:

– It is not at the end of this year - the section has already ceased to operate.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– It is at the end of the year, if the Postmaster-General’ will pardon me. I admit that the honorable gentleman was one of those who assisted to pass a. measure which, to a certain extent, got behind the Constitution and enabled the Government to do what they have no right to do. That, however, does not refute my contention that, inasmuch as the bookkeeping provisions nominally run to the 31st December, from that date onwards there should be uniform postal rates throughout Australia.

The question now arises whether the rate should be id. or 2d. ; and to-day three objections have been urged very strongly against the former. The first objection is that a penny rate will afford additional facilities to large business men, and practically put money into their pockets. To a very great extent, however, that has already happened under the present system. In the large centres there is penny postage now ; and I should say that the bulk of the correspondence of business men is in the cities. As ‘a consequence, business men are already reaping those benefits which some honorable members opposite, notably the honorable member for Adelaide, have said they will reap from the introduction of this Bill.

Mr Webster:

– Not in all the States.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I am aware that that is not so in South Australia, though I do not know as to other States.

Mr Thomas:

– Everywhere but in South Australia there is penny postage in the large cities.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– And in regard to this objection, I would point out that the country people, to whom the facility of penny postage has not been extended in the past, have simply been paying more than their fair share towards the postal rates.

Mr Webster:

– And getting fewer facilities.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– Yes. They do not expect the same facilities, being thoroughly reasonable in the requests which they make, and I have not met a case in which there were not reasonable grounds for the request made.

Another objection urged against the measure is that the officers of the Department are underpaid. I do not think that there can be the slightest doubt that the service is underpaid, overworked, and undermanned. In nearly every large office men are working overtime, and unable to get payment for it. This overtime amounts in some cases to hundreds of hours. It is necessary that the staff should be thoroughly re- organized, and the salaries subjected to the closest review, so that the administration may be placed on a better footing.

But the case of the permanent officers is not so bad as the position of those in charge of semi-official and allowance post-offices;. I received to-day a letter from the postmistress at Cudgen, on the Tweed River, in which she says that she is in charge of an allowance office, containing a branch of the Government Savings Bank. She attends to ordinary postal business, issues money orders, pays old-age pensions, and looks after the public telephone and subscribers’ telephones. According to the latest official figures obtainable, the departmental report for 1908, the articles posted and received in that year -letters, newspapers, packets, and parcels -numbered 33,651, while 2,432 mails were received, and the same number despatched. The telegrams received and despatched numbered 1,222 ; the value of the money order and postal notes issued and paid was £1,280; and the payments into and from Savings Bank accounts amounted to £2,092. Thus over £3,400 was handled, in addition to the money received on account of’ stamps and telegrams, and the payments made in respect of old-age pensions. I know from personal acquaintance with the district that there has been an immense advance during the past two years, so that the business of the office must now be much greater than it was in 1908 ; yet the postmistress receives only 13s. 8d. a week. She handles over 100 postal articles every day, despatches eight mails, receives and sends four telegrams, attends to the Savings Bank business and the issue of money orders, and gets only 13s. 8d. a week.

Mr Riley:

– How long has the office been in existence?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– I do not know.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– The pay is about 2s. a day ; which is about what would be given in Java. Is this happening under the administration of the PostmasterGeneral?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– The work of the office occupies the whole time of the postmistress, who must be on duty from 9 in the morning until 6 in the evening every clay.

Dr Carty Salmon:

– Is the fact that the remuneration paid is only 13s. 8d. a week set out in the report from which the honorable member has. quoted?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– No ; I have been informed of the remuneration from other sources.

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

– How long has the postmistress been rising to this salary?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– No doubt the business of the office was very small at first, and has increased without a corresponding increase of remuneration.

Dr Carty Salmon:

– The remuneration should be stated in the table showing the work of the office, so that the PostmasterGeneral may not overlook these facts.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– There is good reason for doing that. There are other cases, perhaps not quite so bad, in which those in charge of semi-official offices are scandalously underpaid.

Mr Cann:

– Is there a store connected with this office?

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– No. I might add that the building is found for the Department; it pays nothing in the way of rent. The territory in regard to which semiofficial offices operate is much greater than that in regard to which permanent offices operate. I hope that the PostmasterGeneral will investigate these cases, and remedy a state of affairs which could exist only under the worst administration of which it is possible to conceive. If I thought that the introduction of penny postage would prevent the removal of these injustices, I would vote against it.

Mr Thomas:

– The existence of a case such as the honorable member has directed my attention to does not depend upon either a 2d. or a1d. rate.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

-I think not, but the administration which allows it is altogether wrong.;

Mr Fuller:

– The administration at the head office is worse than that.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– If I thought that the passing of the Bill would prevent the remedying of injustice, or bring about the curtailment of facilities of communication, in any district, which is another objection urged against this measure, I would vote against it.

Mr Thomas:

– So would I.

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

– We must view this matter from two quite distinct stand-points ; firstly, from a purely commercial aspect, and, secondly, as it affects the development of the country. These two points of view must be kept clear and distinct. The PostmasterGeneral admits, and the report of the Postal Commission bears him out, that the receipts from postal services practically meet the expenditure. Throughout Victoria, and in large districts in all the other States, with the exception of South Australia, penny postage is already in force. I do not see, therefore, why it could not be made universal without any great loss of revenue. I am of opinion, too, that this need not interfere with the facilities of, but may greatly benefit those in the sparsely settled districts of Australia. I know what it means to ride 9 or 10 miles for the mail after a hard day’s work, and the same distance back again. It is of the greatest importance to people in the backblocks to have every possible postal facility granted to them. We should not look at that part of the service from a commercial point of view, but, in considering country districts, we should regard the post-office more as a factor in the development of the continent. People will not be willing to go away back and cut themselves off from all the comforts of civilization unless we give them reasonable facilities to keep in touch with the outer world. I admit that in the past more might have been done in regard to these matters. The Postmaster-General has before him a great work in the re-organization of the whole of our postal facilities in the back country. I hope he means what he says when he states that he will see that the introduction of this measure does not in any way curtail the existing facilities, but I should have liked to hear him say also that he would see that it did not interfere with a progressive policy in the way of affording the back-country settlers every additional postal facility possible. In many instances, at present, a number of settlers club together and subscribe a certain amount to enable them to get a postal service granted to them, the Department paying so much, and they paying so much. While there are cases where this system is possibly justifiable, when there are two or three settlers away up in a district which is not capable of further expansion or development to any appreciable extent, I do think that, where there is a prospect of a very large amount of development, the first few settlers, who pioneer a district and make it possible for others to follow them, should not be saddled, in the first instance, with the additional expense of providing postal facilities for the district. That, however, is the principle which the Postal Department at present follows to a large extent, particularly in regard to telephones. A number of settlers away out on the Mingoola, about 40 miles from Tenterfield, recently made an offer to the Department to guarantee the cost of the erection of a telephone and any loss on working expenses. The departmental answer was that they would not put the line up at all on guarantee conditions, but that there would be no objection to the residents themselves erecting the line if they so desired. What possible help is it to settlers who go, in the first instance, back into the bush as those men have done, and who are all poor struggling men, to tell them that they may have the privilege of putting Up 30 miles of telephone line? It simply means that there is not the slightest hope of their getting telephone facilities.

It is absolutely necessary that we should get rid of the anomalous condition of affairs existing at present in regard to postal rates, and bring about uniformity. I believe that can be done without interfering with the facilities which the country people have enjoyed up to the present, or preventing them from getting increased facilities in the future. The responsibility of financing the proposal rests with the Government. I only hope they will recognise the absolute necessity of meeting the evils in connexion with their staff, not only permanent employes, but more particularly the allowance and semiofficial officers, who are paid, at present, on a basis that calls for the most drastic remedy. It is a great pity that this measure has not been introduced side by side with a scheme of reform of the post and telegraph service from beginning to end. I believe penny postage would have come in any circumstances sooner or later. It is apparent to all members that it has become necessary to have a uniform rate, and I think that should be a penny rate, but it would have been far better if the PostmasterGeneral had taken the bull by the horns, and set to work to re-organize the whole of the Department, simply making this reform one of many.

Mr WEBSTER:
Gwydir

.- The

– There are some men who know how little they possess, and are anxious to improve themselves, but others do not know how small their knowledge is. The Commission holds it to be essential that the Department should be placed under a board of management. That is another reason why I should have liked to see the consideration of this question de ferred until we could have put the whole scheme into operation. We recognise that the Department can no longer, in a Commonwealth of this kind, be effectively administered by a central head. I want to deal particularly with the demands that should be made upon the Postmaster-General, because he has not given us any idea of how he is going to meet them. There are many cases of injustice throughout the service. The Postmaster-General, in his speech, quoted some figures furnished to him by the Public Sendee Commissioner, who, whenever he wants to improve his case, resorts to the deceptive law of averages. The Postmaster-General, when referring to the wages paid to men in the Department, gave, on the authority of the Public Service Commissioner, what he called the averages paid in 1901 and 1909 respectively. If I had time to dissect those, figures to-night, I could show how fallaciously the average works out when applied to the individual officer. Apart from that, during the last eight or ten years, the whole of the industrial army have marched on with regard to wages. While the cost of living has, I admit, gone up materially, the wages paid to the workers in ali branches of industry have risen also. No thought has been given to that, however, in an equitable, way, by those responsible for the administration of the Department. The question has been reviewed by the Commission in all its phases, and they have reported what, in their opinion, would be necessary. We find that, throughout the Department, large sums of money will be needed to re-adjust the position of the officers upon whom the Department depends. We recommend’ that the maximum salary of the fifth class, clerical division, be raised to £200 per annum, and that sorters’ grades be abolished. That means additional expenditure, because ‘ grading ‘ ‘ in regard to sorters has been nothing more nor less than “ evading. ‘ ‘ The Department has kept grading and regrading men only to keep down the rewards to which they were entitled for services rendered. We recommend, also, that the salaries of sorters be from £150 to £190, despatching officers £200, and mail officers £210 to £240 per annum. Those are increases of expenditure into which the PostmasterGeneral does not seem to have looked at all. They represent a considerable item, although they mean but simple justice to the men in the Department. Another important feature in’ the recommendations is this : While there have been grades in the Department, promotion has been so long delayed that often a man became almost entitled to an old-age pension before he could reach the top grade. When he was least fit to earn his money was the time when he would be entitled to get the most, but at the age when he was most vigorous and able to earn more he received only a medium rate of salary. The Commission recommend, and think it is imperative as a matter of justice, that these men shall all reach the high-water mark of their grade when their biggest responsibility is upon them, when they can give the most energy to the Department, and when their judgment is the most effective - that is, at the age of thirty-one years. If we are going to standardize the service, it is only equitable, just, and fair that that should be done. The Postmaster-General should look into that recommendation if this party is going to be worthy of its name as the protector of those who are placed under its control. We recommend that officers in charge of mail vans be raised to the rank of despatching officer, and that the maximum salary of letter-carriers - £150 per annum - be attainable in nine years after reaching the minimum wage. At present, many of them do not reach it in twenty years after reaching the minimum wage, and some take longer than that. That reform will involve further expenditure. We recommend that letter-carriers’ hours be forty-four per week, and this will mean further expenditure; that the salaries of mail-drivers and groomsincharge be increased; that country linemen be afforded opportunities of transfer to city parties ; and that linemen be provided with waterproof clothing. One wonders why that has not been done already. We recommend also -

That linemen’s grades be abolished, and their salaries increased as follows : - Linemen, £120 to £156; line foremen, £168 to £192; line inspectors, £200 to £350 per annum.

That means another item of expenditure which has not been reviewed by the PostmasterGeneral. We further recommend -

That the maximum salary of instrument fitters be increased to *£160 * that the salaries of senior instrument fitters be from ^170 to £190; and foreman fitters, ^200 to £250 per annum.

That would involve further expenditure. Every one of the proposals attached to this report demands the close attention of the Postmaster-General. The claims made should be met, and justice meted out to the employes of this great Department before any concessions, other than those we are compelled to give, are given to any particular section of the community. We have it in evidence that the late Secretary of the Post and Telegraph Department was always strongly opposed to penny postage under existing conditions, ike recognised that it is not a fair proposition, and that it is not reasonable to compare Australia in this connexion with the countries in which the system has been adopted. He admits that a penny is a fair charge for services rendered in metropolitan areas where letters are delivered from the postoffice in which they are posted, but he contends it is a sound financial proposition to charge a higher rate for letters which have to be delivered at a distance. This gentleman, whose advice the Postmaster-General of the Commonwealth has been prepared to accept in the past, expresses himself in unmistakable terms as opposed to the adoption of penny postage in the Commonwealth. I ask Ministers to make a special note of what 1 am now about to say. We have no permanent Secretary of the Post and Telegraph Department to-day. . The late Secretary has retired, and there is an officer acting in his place, and, in my judgment, it will not be in the interests of the Department or of the Government if during the recess they decide to nil the position without having first considered the whole of the proposals made by the Postal Commission foi the future management of the service. To fill this important position with any officer now available in the Commonwealth would be to take but another of the disastrous steps which have been taken in the past. In my judgment it would be an unpardonable thing to do.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– Does the honorable member say that we have not a man in the Commonwealth fit to fill that position ?

Mr WEBSTER:

– I do undoubtedly say that, unless the service is to be run on the lines hitherto adopted. The honorable member for Parramatta ought to know that himself.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– I do not know. it.

Mr Fuller:

– Would the honorable member import a man for the position?

Mr WEBSTER:

Mr Mathews:

– I would rather do that than lower wages.

Sir JOHN FORREST:

– There is a great deal of make-believe about this matter of wages. Of course, the purpose of references of that kind has for its object the catching of - votes, as I interjected a little while ago. We ought to be able to deal with this subject on its merits, without introducing the question of salaries and wages, which have no connexion whatever with it, and which are dealt with under the Public Service Act, and in the Appropriation Act. On the 31st December, the’ operation of the Braddon section of the Constitution will terminate. Parliament has provided for a new arrangement with the States for the next ten years. While I am prepared to allow that the law at present prevailing in regard to postage throughout the Commonwealth might be held to be valid if continued until repealed by an Act of the Federal Parliament, nevertheless there can be no doubt that uniformity in rates in the several States ought to be instituted after the expiration of the Braddon section on 31st December next. Otherwise we shall have the anomaly of various postage rates being in force in different States. -In my opinion, therefore, it is incumbent upon us to avoid differentiating between the States. To do so, indeed, is, if not illegal, altogether unjustifiable. During the last ten years Victoria has had penny postage throughout the whole of her territory, whereas in other States, there has been penny postage in towns and municipalities, whilst in the country districts the rate has been 2d., which also has been the rate on letters to the United Kingdom. No one can argue that it is desirable to continue different rates in the States after the expiration of the Braddon section. My only regret is that uniformity of postage in the several States was not established long ago. I should like to quote from a speech which I delivered in this House on 31st July, 1906, when introducing the Budget. I said on that occasion -

It affords me great pleasure to announce that the Government propose to recommend Parliament to establish penny postage throughout the Commonwealth and the Empire on the ist October next. We propose also to extend penny postage to all foreign countries that will agree to deliver our letters.

Honorable members know that we have agreed to deliver letters posted with a penny stamp in the United- Kingdom, whereas we have to pay a fee of 2d. each on our letters to the United Kingdom. In that respect we suffer a disadvantage, as we have to deliver a great deal more matter for the United Kingdom than they have to deliver for us. I went on to say -

As Treasurer, I have satisfied myself that funds are available, and I hope that the amendment of the law necessary to insure the establishment of penny post will be unanimously agreed to by Parliament at the earliest possible moment.

I am very sorry to say that our Bill to introduce penny postage was laid aside, or, at any rate, was not proceeded with.

Mr Roberts:

– What was the reason for laying it aside?

Sir JOHN FORREST:

– It was postponed, and I think, if the truth must be told, there was a majority against it in the House at that time. The result has been that the people of Victoria have alone enjoyed penny postage. Of course, I am aware that the State has had to pay for the privilege. At the same time, there has been a want of uniformity in the postage rates of Australia which has been most inconvenient to persons in other States receiving letters from Victoria. The honorable member for Ballarat seemed to think that there was no one to blame because our Bill was not proceeded with, and that there is no inconsistency on the part of those who were opposed to penny postage dien being in favour of it now. There is, no doubt, something to be said on that score, because we are in a different position now that the operation of the Braddon section has come to an end. The States have been provided for in another way, and there is not very much obligation upon us to return to them more than 25s. a head, and, therefore, our resources are far greater now than they were previously. I, however, regret very much that penny postage was not introduced in 1906. I know of no reason why it should not have been established as soon as we were able to legislate on the subject after the inauguration of the Commonwealth. The postal revenue, which, of course, includes the telegraph and telephone revenue, has increased very largely every year since Federation, and is still increasing. In 1906-7, when we proposed to introduce penny postage, the revenue was £3,129,000, whereas now it is £3,899,000. The honorable member for Ballarat said that, perhaps, there were financial reasons which actuated honorable members in 1906, but I am not inclined to that view, because the very year when the Government did not proceed with the Penny Postage Bill we returned to the States £806,000 out of our one-fourth share of the Customs and Excise revenue. We were at that time very desirous of returning as much as possible to the States, which were rather short of funds. At the same time, it was not on account of want of funds that the Bill was not pro ceeded with. To those who have not read or have forgotten the experience of Canada in respect to penny postage, I may say that the following extract was quoted by the honorable member for Eden-Monaro when Postmaster- General, and myself. The Treasurer of Canada, Mr. Fielding, in making a statement of its finances, in May, 1906, said -

It is but a few years since Canada had a 3-cent (1 1/2d.) domestic letter rate, and a 5-cent (2 1/2d.) rate on letters to Great Britain, and yet even with these heavy postal rates, the Post Office Department absorbed all ‘the revenue it could collect, and, at the close of the year, some 600,000 or 700,000 dollars (£123,288 or £143,836) was usually required from the public Treasury to make good the deficiency and to keep the post-office running. We have no longer a 3-cent rate ; Canada has penny postage within her own borders, and penny postage with the Mother Country. The Post Office Department no longer absorbs all its own revenue, no longer calls for 600,000 or 700,000 dollars from the Treasury. After affording the people a very liberal postal service, after giving reduced rates, after establishing the blessing - for it is not too much to speak of it so- of penny postage, the Postmaster-General comes at the close of the year asking for nothing from the public Treasury, but tendering the splendid sum of 900,000 dollars (£184,932) to assist the other public services of the country.

I believe that the experience of New Zealand has been equally satisfactory. In 1906, when I as Treasurer approved of penny postage being established on the recommendation of the then PostmasterGeneral, the honorable member for EdenMonaro, I estimated the loss for the year at £209,000. I was of opinion then, and I still believe, that the increased use of the post-office would have been such that in a very short time, as was the case in Canada, the loss would have been wiped out. At any rate, we could have afforded very well then to” establish penny postage’, and by this time I have no doubt that there would have been nothing but praise of it. I believe that a great many members of the Labour Socialistic party and others also were opposed to it at that time, so much so, indeed, that it was decided not to proceed with the measure. I am very glad, however, that the present Government have reintroduced the Bill, and in exactly the same shape as regards the rates as we proposed. I think it is a very progressive Federal proposal. I only regret that it was not introduced years ago. In the early days of Federation we had plenty of money at our disposal - that is, if we had not considered it our duty to return it to. the States. In those years the policy was to return to the

States as much as possible, because we knew that the States wanted the money. At the same time, when I look back I very much regret that we did not have penny postage from the very beginning, and that we did not spend some of the money which we returned to the States in defraying any loss which might have been sustained. I am gladthat honorable members on the Ministerial side, and also, perhaps, some on this side, have repented of their former error in preventing penny postage being established in 1906. I have much pleasure in supporting the Bill.

Mr RILEY:
South Sydney

I had intended to oppose this measure until such time as the Department was reorganized, and the employes received fair and just treatment. However, the PostmasterGeneral has assured us that fair conditions for the employes do not depend on the rate of postage; and on the promise to readjust the present conditions-

I admit ihat the Postmaster-General has manifested his eagerness to afford facilities to the country districts in the matter of the extension of telephonic communication, but, at the same time, I must remind him that there are people living in parts of Australia who would willingly pay a shilling on a letter if they, could get mails regularly.

Throughout the Commonwealth, a large number of our producers are not able to get their mails regularly. They cannot get them more than once a week, or perhaps more than once a fortnight. I desire to impress on the Ministry the statement of the Postmaster-General in introducing the Bill, that the great loss of revenue which would occur would not mean any deprivation of mails to people in outlying places ; and that the privileges which they are. asking for would not be interfered with. The honorable member for Herbert, another prominent member of the Labour party, speaking on the same question in 1906, said -

The Department have been fairly liberal, but they have not been able to give me a great many facilities for which I have asked, -because there has been no money available.

Every member representing a country constituency has received from the Department letters to the same effect. During the last five or six years, when I have sent in reasonable applications, the reply I have received from the Department, time after time, has been that there were no funds available. That official letter has been so frequent, that I have become heartily sick of receiving it. The honorable member for Herbert also said, on the same occasion -

Now, it is proposed to make a free gift to a small section of the community at the expense of the rest of the people of Australia.

– I contend that the matter to which I refer should be given consideration. The people on these islands have no telegraphic communication by cable, or by wireless telegraphy, and when a request is made to supply them with a better service, we are told that the Department has no money. If this proposal to reduce the revenue of the Department is carried into effect, what chance shall I have of securing a better service for the people of Flinders Island? The small vessels carrying on the present service are the only means of communication between the islands and Launceston, or Melbourne, and I can assure honorable members that on some occasions these small ketches have carried thirty passengers, without sanitary accommodation or conveniences of any description, and women and children have been put down into the hold without berths, and have sometimes had to stay there for from three to six days, in rough weather. Much the same thing applies to the service between Tasmania and King Island, which is represented by the present Minister of Home Affairs. That honorable gentleman has been asking for a cable service with King Island since he has been a member of this

House. There are thousands of genuine farmers settled on the island now, but, in common with the people settled on the other islands to which I have referred, they are denied a satisfactory means of communication with Tasmania and the mainland, because the Government have no money to spend in the way proposed. If that be so, how can I be asked to support a measure like this? If a proposal which must involve a reduction of the revenue’ derived by the Department brings, about a better service, I am a Dutchman. I am opposed to this measure.

Mr PALMER:
Echuca

.- I desire to offer one or two remarks upon this proposal. In my opinion, the payment of civil servants has been very unfairly intruded into the consideration of the question. It is really a question of statesmanship to say whether we should adopt universal penny postage in Australia. Honorable members who might be expected to support the Government appear to be determined to defeat this proposal. They contend that if this statesmanlike proposition is carried out, the Public Service is bound to suffer. If I thought that public servants would suffer as the result of. the passing of this Bill, I should not be prepared to support it; but, in view of the fact that a number of taxation proposals have been submitted to this House - proposals which are bound to become law, and are designed more particularly to take money out of the pockets of the commercial section of the community - I think it only reasonable that the penny-postage system should be adopted in other States, as it has been in Victoria. It appears an anomaly that whereas residents of Victoria can have all their correspondence carried through the post at a charge of id. per letter, those outside the city areas of New South Wales have to pay 2d. per letter, while in some of the other States every letter must be.t a twopenny stamp. Uniformity in this respect ought to be established, so as to fulfil one of the obligations of Federation, that every person in the Commonwealth shall be treated alike by the Public Departments. I am, therefore, a supporter of the Bill, and it appears to me that the Government are justly entitled to the sympathy of the House. This is the first measure that has created in my mind a feeling of sympathy for them. I notice that many of those to whom they have a right to look for support are badgering them in- this connexion, and I am afraid that they will have to rely on the assistance of the Opposition. We are always prepared to help the Government when they bring forward any sound measure; but we feel it our duty to oppose Socialistic propositions that are believed to be unsound. We believe this to be a measure that should commend itself to all right-thinking people, and we are therefore prepared to give it our support.

Question - That the Bill be now read a second time - put. The House divided.

AYES: 31

NOES: 4

AYES

NOES

Maiority … … 27

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Bill read a second time and considered in Committee pro forma.

page 5784

SHALE OILS BOUNTIES BILL

Bill returned from the Senate with an amendment.

Mr TUDOR:
Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP

– With the permission of the House, I move -

That the Senate’s Message be taken into consideration forthwith.

Mr SPEAKER:

– No new business can be taken after11 o’clock, except with the consent of the House. Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Trade and Customs have leave to move that the message be considered forth?

Honorable Members. - Hear, hear !

Leave granted.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

Mr TUDOR:
Minister of Trade and Customs · Yarra · ALP

– The amendment inserts in the Bill a clause similar to that appearing in other Bills providing for the payment of bounties. It declares that information shall be supplied showing by whom the bounty has been won, the amount of the bounty paid, the goods in respect of which the bounties were paid, and so forth. I move -

That the Senate’s amendment be agreed to.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

page 5784

LAND TAX ASSESSMENT BILL

Bill returned from the Senate with amendments.

page 5784

ADJOURNMENT

Land Tax Commissioner - Postal Commission’s Report

Motion (by Mr. Hughes) proposed -

That the House do now adjourn.

Mr FRAZER:
Acting Treasurer · Kalgoorlie · ALP

– I desire to announce that the Government have decided to appoint Mr. G. A. McKay, of New South Wales, as the Commonwealth Land Tax Commissioner.

Mr Joseph Cook:

– A very excellent appointment.

Mr FRAZER:

– We have carefully considered the qualifications of the sixty odd applicants for the position, and have decided that he is the most suitable man.

Mr ROBERTS:
Adelaide

.- I should be glad if the Government would intimate when they propose to indicate their intentions in regard to the report of the Postal Commission. I recognise the difficulty in which they are placed owing to the regrettable illness of the PostmasterGeneral, and I wish to express my sympathy with him in that he was unable to remain here to record his vote in favour of the Postal Rates Bill. But the report of the Commission is so important, and so many thousands of persons are eagerly awaiting the decision of the Government in regard to it, that we ought to have a statement of their intentions at the earliest possible moment.

Mr HUGHES:
Acting Prime Minister · West Sydney · ALP

– The Government realize that the report presented by the Postal Commission covers so many questions of first-rate importance that, although there does not appear to be any reasonable chance of taking action in regard to them this session, they will, before Parliament prorogues, make a general statement of their intentions.

Question resolved in the affirmative.

House adjourned at 11.20 p.m.

Cite as: Australia, House of Representatives, Debates, 8 November 1910, viewed 22 October 2017, <http://historichansard.net/hofreps/1910/19101108_reps_4_59/>.

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House of Representatives 8 November 1910

POSTMASTER-GENERAL’S DEPARTMENT.

Mr THOMAS:Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr ANSTEY:BOURKE, VICTORIA

Mr THOMAS:

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr THOMAS:

Mr TUDOR:Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr HEDGES:FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr TUDOR:

Mr ANSTEY:

Mr TUDOR:

Mr Anstey:

Mr TUDOR:

QUESTION

IMMIGRATION

Mr HIGGS:CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr BATCHELOR:Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

CONTROL OF RIVERS

Mr BAMFORD:HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

QUESTION

STOCK QUARANTINE

Mr MAHON:COOLGARDIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr TUDOR:ALP

Mr POYNTON:GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr TUDOR:

Mr MAHON:

Mr TUDOR:

Mr MASSY-GREENE:RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr TUDOR:

Mr JOSEPH COOK:PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr Tudor:

Mr JOSEPH COOK:

Mr TUDOR:

QUESTION

PUBLIC SERVICE

Mr BRUCE SMITH:PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr KING O’MALLEY:Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

Sir WILLIAM LYNE:HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:ALP

QUESTION

SYDNEY NAVAL ESTABLISHMENTS

Mr FRAZER:Minister (without portfolio) · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

QUESTION

CHORISTERS AND DANCERS’ UNION

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:ALP

COMMONWEALTH PROPERTIES

Municipal Rates

Sir WILLIAM LYNE:

Mr KING O’MALLEY:ALP

Mr KELLY:WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr SPEAKER:

Mr KELLY:

Mr KING O’MALLEY:

Mr KELLY:

Mr KING O’MALLEY:

QUESTION

NORTHERN TERRITORY : PROTECTION OF ABORIGINES

Dr CARTY SALMON:LAANECOORIE, VICTORIA

Mr BATCHELOR:ALP

QUESTION

PROHIBITION OF DRUGS AND CHEMICALS

Dr CARTY SALMON:

Mr TUDOR:ALP

Dr Carty Salmon:

Mr TUDOR:

QUESTION

PROTECTION OF CHILD LIFE

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:ALP

QUESTION

DEFENCE DEPARTMENT

Mr KELLY:

Mr FRAZER:ALP

Dr MALONEY:MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr FRAZER:

PAPERS

QUESTION

House of Representatives
8 November 1910

Mr THOMAS:
Postmaster-General · BARRIER, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr ANSTEY:
BOURKE, VICTORIA

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr TUDOR:
Minister for Trade and Customs · YARRA, VICTORIA · ALP

Mr HEDGES:
FREMANTLE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr HIGGS:
CAPRICORNIA, QUEENSLAND

Mr BATCHELOR:
Minister for External Affairs · BOOTHBY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA · ALP

Mr BAMFORD:
HERBERT, QUEENSLAND

Mr HUGHES:
Attorney-General · WEST SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES · ALP

Mr MAHON:
COOLGARDIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Mr POYNTON:
GREY, SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Mr MASSY-GREENE:
RICHMOND, NEW SOUTH WALES · LP; NAT from 1917

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
PARRAMATTA, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr BRUCE SMITH:
PARKES, NEW SOUTH WALES · FT; ANTI-SOC from 1906; LP from 1910; NAT from 1917

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
Minister for Home Affairs · DARWIN, TASMANIA · ALP

Sir WILLIAM LYNE:
HUME, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

Mr FRAZER:
Minister (without portfolio) · KALGOORLIE, WESTERN AUSTRALIA · ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
ALP

Mr KELLY:
WENTWORTH, NEW SOUTH WALES

Dr CARTY SALMON:
LAANECOORIE, VICTORIA

Mr BATCHELOR:
ALP

Mr TUDOR:
ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr HUGHES:
ALP

Mr FRAZER:
ALP

Dr MALONEY:
MELBOURNE, VICTORIA · ALP; FLP from 1931; ALP from 1936

Mr RILEY:
SOUTH SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES

Mr KING O’MALLEY:
ALP

Mr JOSEPH COOK:
Parramatta

Mr KELLY:
Wentworth